# To Russia With Love: The Robert Hanssen Story

An episode of [Ridiculous Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1608230191), 17 Feb 2026, 1 h 13 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/0b4bcc39-7ba2-453f-aaac-ae510011dd80/1eb3f9af-67bb-4c2a-8f06-b3f3016a407a/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=3a4c50f5-ff69-4807-aa26-ae510011dd8e

Inspired by boyhood dreams of wanting to be James Bond, real life FBI guy Robert Hanssen joined the bureau to become a secret agent. But when no one liked him and bosses overlooked him, Hanssen decided to do the next best thing: become a double-agent and spy for the Soviet Union. Larry King, Mother Theresa, secret messages hidden in used car ads, this spy story has a bit of everything! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:03] Speaker 2: Elizabeth Dudd. Got a question for you, my friend. Yeah, okay,
[0:08] Speaker 2: you know the answer to this. I'm hoping I think
[0:11] Speaker 2: you do. Do you know what's ridiculous?
[0:12] Speaker 3: No? Oh, I'm just yanking your chain. Valentine's Day straight
[0:20] Speaker 3: up ridiculous.
[0:21] Speaker 2: This can be a mash up.
[0:22] Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about Valentine's Day quickly? Okay, place un
[0:26] Speaker 3: it's over, you know, but I just think it's it's
[0:29] Speaker 3: like garbage.
[0:31] Speaker 2: Why do you not like Valentine's Day?
[0:34] Speaker 3: Point?
[0:35] Speaker 2: Is there a holiday you do like? Because we've gone
[0:38] Speaker 2: for a few of them, and you're like, that's garbage,
[0:40] Speaker 2: always to tell every day?
[0:42] Speaker 3: I like Thanksgiving? I like Halloween?
[0:45] Speaker 2: So you like the autumnal?
[0:46] Speaker 3: I like the fourth of July?
[0:48] Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so summer and autumn holidays?
[0:51] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[0:51] Speaker 2: Do you like Secretaries?
[0:52] Speaker 3: Doesn't something to do with the time of year. I
[0:54] Speaker 3: just think Valentine's Day is like commercial garbage.
[0:58] Speaker 2: Is there a winter time holiday you do?
[0:59] Speaker 3: Like Winter Solstice?
[1:01] Speaker 2: Okay, not technically a holiday.
[1:04] Speaker 3: But for my people, the spookies, good one. So what
[1:09] Speaker 3: do you got for Valentine's Day? Did you do anything
[1:12] Speaker 3: for Valentine's Day.
[1:14] Speaker 2: For Valentine's Day, I got myself a bunch of boxes
[1:17] Speaker 2: of chocolate the day after Valentine's Day. So now I
[1:20] Speaker 2: got like eat them real quick before they go bad.
[1:22] Speaker 3: That's the time to do it.
[1:23] Speaker 2: For Halloween and Valentine's Day right after Easter doesn't have
[1:26] Speaker 2: his mini that I like, like, I'm not like a
[1:28] Speaker 2: Peeps person. There's a lot of chocolate, so I just
[1:30] Speaker 2: buy the chocolate. But you know, so there you go
[1:33] Speaker 2: my day late dollars short chocolate supply.
[1:36] Speaker 3: Well, see, I have this huge backlog of potential. What's
[1:40] Speaker 3: ridiculous is that are sent to us and that I collate.
[1:45] Speaker 3: And there was one that I've been really wanted to
[1:49] Speaker 3: use and I couldn't find it today. It had something
[1:52] Speaker 3: to do with animals that stick grass up their butts.
[1:55] Speaker 2: What is animal thing about?
[1:58] Speaker 3: The boo boos? And I was like, this is the
[2:00] Speaker 3: greatest thing I've ever seen, and now I can't find it.
[2:03] Speaker 3: And I just spent like an hour and a half.
[2:05] Speaker 3: So if you sent that, send it however you originally
[2:09] Speaker 3: sent it, and it'll somehow make its way to me. Anyway.
[2:11] Speaker 3: They were like, look, there was a sort of Valentine's theme.
[2:14] Speaker 3: But I'm like too late, buddies. But it's more that
[2:17] Speaker 3: it arrived in time, but I got too late to
[2:20] Speaker 3: I'm buddies in that.
[2:21] Speaker 2: Yes, you're the buddy.
[2:22] Speaker 3: So the first one, McDonald's partner partnered with Paramount Caviar. Yeah,
[2:30] Speaker 3: so they had mcnuggetcaviar dot com. They started it on
[2:35] Speaker 3: February tenth, where you could it's free. They keep talking
[2:38] Speaker 3: about you know what it's like only we do it's free.
[2:40] Speaker 2: Don't you eat free caviar?
[2:42] Speaker 3: No? Did you eat caviar?
[2:45] Speaker 2: Maybe like I've done some Russian to tempted.
[2:47] Speaker 3: Me with some ca Yeah. So they want you to
[2:50] Speaker 3: go and buy chicken nuggets, chicky nuggies, put crembfresh and
[2:55] Speaker 3: then caviar on it and then you know, serve it
[2:59] Speaker 3: to Ronald McDonald than a sentual situation.
[3:01] Speaker 2: Okay, what did they call that? The Evil Empire?
[3:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's if you entered you could get a
[3:07] Speaker 3: one ounce ten of McNugget caviar, which is premium product,
[3:12] Speaker 3: I guess they said, and then a twenty five dollars
[3:16] Speaker 3: arch card, so you could buy a bunch of McNuggets cremfresh,
[3:19] Speaker 3: a mother of pearl caviar spoon. To top it all off, how.
[3:22] Speaker 2: Did McDonald's get a deal on caviar. I don't know,
[3:24] Speaker 2: I probably don't want it.
[3:25] Speaker 3: Maybe no one ordered it, so go to Mcnuggetcaviar dot
[3:31] Speaker 3: com supplies are limited act fast. But that's like if
[3:34] Speaker 3: you're fancy, But what if you're down home, down home,
[3:39] Speaker 3: like real country.
[3:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm listening.
[3:43] Speaker 3: We've talked. I told you about Natty Light. Natural Light
[3:47] Speaker 3: had the yard. Yeah, like the treadmill, lawnmower, got a
[3:52] Speaker 3: lawnmower thing Like I think it's a lawnmower fetish. Okay,
[3:56] Speaker 3: because they've introduced lingerie and it's lingerie for your riding mower.
[4:03] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm avoiding all the bad jokes.
[4:05] Speaker 3: And I know they're describing it as quote a frisky
[4:11] Speaker 3: set of intimate apparel for lawnmowers. It's a lacy, silky
[4:16] Speaker 3: protective cover to keep lawng cair equipment looking extra sexy
[4:20] Speaker 3: and ensure your equipment maintains its cutting edge. So it
[4:24] Speaker 3: looks kind of like a large oval of satin with
[4:29] Speaker 3: a you know, long trim of lace on.
[4:32] Speaker 2: An't they doing there at Natty Ice?
[4:35] Speaker 3: Bad things they should be on a watch list and
[4:37] Speaker 3: so but here there's all have them link somehow. There's
[4:42] Speaker 3: a video, Oh God, in a garage where a guy
[4:45] Speaker 3: who's wearing a wedding ring.
[4:46] Speaker 2: It looks like a haunted Victorian mansion.
[4:48] Speaker 3: He rubs it sensually and then he starts to delicately
[4:52] Speaker 3: lift the lingerie from the mower.
[4:54] Speaker 2: What the hell?
[4:56] Speaker 3: And the caption is Bauchika Momo no no, introducing natural
[5:01] Speaker 3: light lawn Gerie, a sultry Valentine's Day gift for your
[5:05] Speaker 3: most cherished lawn equipment. But the real prize is what's
[5:08] Speaker 3: underneath new riding mower comment hashtag natty lawn geri, hashtag
[5:14] Speaker 3: sweepsteaks and you could win.
[5:16] Speaker 2: Both a John Deere riding.
[5:17] Speaker 3: It's not a John Dere, honey, it's red.
[5:19] Speaker 2: It's red. I didn't I don't know what makes it.
[5:22] Speaker 3: It's a great value Walmart.
[5:24] Speaker 2: Bro I was hoping it was are and then it's so.
[5:27] Speaker 3: But I want the lingerie and I'm just gonna I'm
[5:30] Speaker 3: gonna cut a hole in the very center of it
[5:33] Speaker 3: and wear it like a poncho.
[5:36] Speaker 2: I don't even know what to make of that, nor do.
[5:38] Speaker 3: I But guess what. So I cleared a little bit
[5:44] Speaker 3: of my backlog, but I still got the thing about
[5:47] Speaker 3: the animals shoving grass up their butts.
[5:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I can.
[5:51] Speaker 3: Almost see it, and I just missed it.
[5:55] Speaker 2: So ridiculous it is. Okay, you know what else is ridiculous?
[6:00] Speaker 3: Ridiculous?
[6:01] Speaker 2: Robert Hanson?
[6:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wait a second main.
[6:04] Speaker 2: Base sound familiar. The FBI once called him quote the
[6:07] Speaker 2: most damaging spy and bureau history.
[6:10] Speaker 3: Oh vague memories of this year?
[6:12] Speaker 2: Why was this cat so successful as a spy? Well,
[6:15] Speaker 2: for one, the FBI just flat out refused to believe
[6:18] Speaker 2: he was one of theirs. The facts are right there
[6:21] Speaker 2: before them. But the FBI was like, no, it's not
[6:23] Speaker 2: us CIA. We're pretty sure of it. Okay, So yeah,
[6:27] Speaker 2: buckle up. This one is all kinds of while you
[6:51] Speaker 2: this is ridiculous crime, A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.
[6:57] Speaker 2: Heis and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free
[7:03] Speaker 2: and one hundred percent what Elizabeth, one hundred percent ridiculous?
[7:09] Speaker 3: Oh never remember how that's supposed to go.
[7:12] Speaker 2: I know it's okay, keep up, though, you know, Okay,
[7:15] Speaker 2: here where to begin today? What start at the beginning? Okay,
[7:18] Speaker 2: this one's wild. For twenty one years, this man conned
[7:21] Speaker 2: for presidents, three FBI directors, his wife, his kids, his friends,
[7:25] Speaker 2: his neighbors, his coworkers, even his mistress.
[7:28] Speaker 3: Oh oh.
[7:29] Speaker 2: The only person he told the truth to was his priest. Yeah.
[7:34] Speaker 2: So imagine, if you will, a man who is the
[7:36] Speaker 2: son of a cop, a man who went to work
[7:38] Speaker 2: for the police and then became a spy for the FBI.
[7:41] Speaker 2: And this same man a suburban dad, a man who
[7:43] Speaker 2: was a super devout Catholic, A man who decides, you
[7:45] Speaker 2: know what, maybe I should try betraying everything I claim
[7:48] Speaker 2: to love and slay to protect. That's our guy today,
[7:51] Speaker 2: a walking, talking contradiction and epic betrayer of everything he
[7:55] Speaker 2: loved and considered. Holy son, So who am I talking about?
[7:59] Speaker 2: As I told jep to Robert Hanson, that's two s's okay. Now,
[8:03] Speaker 2: Old Bobby was a bad, bad boy. He was born
[8:06] Speaker 2: in nineteen forty four April eighteenth, to be exact.
[8:08] Speaker 3: If you're keeping track of dad, hold on, let you
[8:10] Speaker 3: write the stone the.
[8:13] Speaker 2: Four April eighteenth. He was the only son of Howard
[8:16] Speaker 2: and Vivian Hanson. His father, Like I said, Chicago cop
[8:19] Speaker 2: Apparently his father did intelligence work for the Chicago PD.
[8:22] Speaker 2: Whatever that means, I guess you'd probably don't know, doing
[8:25] Speaker 2: deep cover amongst labor leaders, or maybe he infiltrated Communist
[8:28] Speaker 2: meetings during the Red Scare. Probably anyway, his son grows
[8:33] Speaker 2: up wanting to be a spy. He's kind of a
[8:36] Speaker 2: nerdy kid, and you know, I root for that generally.
[8:38] Speaker 3: But in this case, growing up at that time, in
[8:41] Speaker 3: like the fifties, yeah, you'd want.
[8:43] Speaker 2: To be root for nerdy kids, just nerd.
[8:46] Speaker 3: I mean I was a total power nerd.
[8:47] Speaker 2: I still am you still really like kidding? So Robert
[8:50] Speaker 2: Hanson is almost a power nerd, not quite your level,
[8:53] Speaker 2: not your caliber. He absolutely loved James Bond, and he
[8:57] Speaker 2: wanted to be just like him, right, So I'm like, okay,
[9:00] Speaker 2: I feel you. I too wanted to be a spy
[9:02] Speaker 2: when I was a boy that or a condo man. Anyway,
[9:05] Speaker 2: he started a collection of secret spycraft devices and I'm
[9:08] Speaker 2: not talking like exploding pens, but whatever else you could
[9:11] Speaker 2: buy from the back of a comic book that had
[9:13] Speaker 2: like spy coding, Like I need that. So I'm like,
[9:16] Speaker 2: you know, imagining like X ray specs. Yeah, Yeah, who's creator.
[9:19] Speaker 2: We've already done a story on Harold von Brownhoot, the
[9:23] Speaker 2: same guy who invented sea monkeys and was also a
[9:25] Speaker 2: major Neo Nazi benefactor despite being Jewish. Odd guy, But
[9:29] Speaker 2: I digress. So as a kid, young Robert Hanson wanted
[9:33] Speaker 2: to be the super spy guy so badly. He also
[9:36] Speaker 2: managed to get his hands on a shortwave radio, a
[9:39] Speaker 2: like a camera, you know, perfect things for this young
[9:42] Speaker 2: spy in training. He also got a hold of a
[9:45] Speaker 2: Walter PPK pistol, which was the same model James Bond carried, right,
[9:49] Speaker 2: But like.
[9:50] Speaker 3: He's now, he's a kid with this short radio and
[9:53] Speaker 3: a camera and a gun.
[9:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, his father's a copy, so you assume he got
[9:56] Speaker 2: like firearms training. Anyway, young Bobby, he gets his self
[10:00] Speaker 2: a Swiss bank account as well.
[10:02] Speaker 3: How old is he's doing.
[10:04] Speaker 2: I think he's like twelve by that point. I don't know.
[10:06] Speaker 2: I have no idea, but I do know that he's
[10:09] Speaker 2: definitely committed to the bit. You've got a Swiss bank
[10:12] Speaker 2: account before you go to college.
[10:14] Speaker 3: So for his spy at any age.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Honestly, he watched all the James Bond movies, like when
[10:19] Speaker 2: they came out in theaters. He also watched any other
[10:21] Speaker 2: spy films to could get his hands on or like
[10:23] Speaker 2: you know, see in a movie theater because he's like
[10:24] Speaker 2: they had VCRs at the time. I'm a guess that
[10:27] Speaker 2: basically is watching like Dean Martin's Matt Hell movies, right, So,
[10:30] Speaker 2: which are by the way, very and he.
[10:32] Speaker 3: Goes to the kitchen in the middle of the night
[10:34] Speaker 3: to try and like sneak a piece of pie, and
[10:37] Speaker 3: he goes in his pajamas.
[10:42] Speaker 2: Totally. He is definitely that boy mid century super spy guy.
[10:46] Speaker 2: So what does he do with all his childhood spy training, right, Well,
[10:49] Speaker 2: one day his dream become true and he'll become a
[10:52] Speaker 2: real life spy. Well, naturally, he decides to graduate to
[10:56] Speaker 2: being the real thing. He tries. He plans to become
[10:58] Speaker 2: a spy hunter for the FBI. That's okay, right, So
[11:02] Speaker 2: he goes off to college. He majors in chemistry. He
[11:05] Speaker 2: reportedly was a student of average ability, you know, whatever
[11:08] Speaker 2: that's worth. He did see his degree through though, He
[11:10] Speaker 2: received a bachelor's degree in chemistry in nineteen sixty six.
[11:13] Speaker 2: So like basically the age of twenty two. After he
[11:16] Speaker 2: graduates from college, he applies to join the National Security
[11:19] Speaker 2: Agency aka the NSA. He applies to join the cryptography team,
[11:23] Speaker 2: and he is roundedly rejected. So what's his boy to
[11:27] Speaker 2: do now that his spy dreams have crashed on the rocks. Well,
[11:30] Speaker 2: he doesn't let his this little first side step slow
[11:34] Speaker 2: him down. He's like, my role is rolling, So young
[11:36] Speaker 2: Bobby knows he's born to be a spy. So after
[11:39] Speaker 2: the NSA rejects him, he applies to become a dentist.
[11:44] Speaker 2: He's like, I'm gonna need to pay some.
[11:46] Speaker 3: Put the radio stuff from people.
[11:48] Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about that. Well, this time he gets
[11:50] Speaker 2: into dentistry school, Jacob, So he goes to dentistry school.
[11:55] Speaker 3: History school is just a bunch of NSA dropouts.
[11:59] Speaker 2: Well, he goes to Northwestern University in Chicago, which I
[12:01] Speaker 2: imagine is an illustrious dentistry school program. I don't know.
[12:05] Speaker 2: So he trains as a dentist, and then while he's
[12:07] Speaker 2: doing that, he meets the love of his life, a
[12:09] Speaker 2: young woman named Bonnie walk wau Ck. My apologies if
[12:14] Speaker 2: I'm not pronouncing that. Yeah, So he romance his old
[12:19] Speaker 2: Bonnie and to show her how serious he is, he
[12:22] Speaker 2: even converts from his Lutheran faith he was raised in
[12:25] Speaker 2: to become a Roman Catholic just like her.
[12:27] Speaker 3: Welcome.
[12:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, So this convinces her he's serious about a life together.
[12:30] Speaker 2: The two eventually get married. However, he finds that his
[12:34] Speaker 2: modified dream of becoming a dentist is really paling in
[12:37] Speaker 2: comparison to his original plan to become a spy or
[12:39] Speaker 2: spy hunter. So he transfers from dentistry school to the
[12:43] Speaker 2: master's program in business school. So he's going to get
[12:46] Speaker 2: his MBA. He earns his master's in business administration, and
[12:50] Speaker 2: he does try to then parlay his MBA into becoming
[12:53] Speaker 2: a spy. Can he manage that? Can he swing that? Elizabeth?
[12:56] Speaker 2: It's a great question which to.
[12:57] Speaker 3: Be an actual spy? Yeah, I mean my understanding is like,
[13:02] Speaker 3: if you want to attract CIA attention to get recruited,
[13:06] Speaker 3: you study like language. Yeah, I mean.
[13:10] Speaker 2: Generally speaking language schools is the best place from what
[13:12] Speaker 2: I understand.
[13:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, figure out what are the hot button languages coming up?
[13:17] Speaker 3: You know, Chinese, Arabic.
[13:20] Speaker 2: Just a bunch of them, Pashtune, I mean, doesn't really
[13:22] Speaker 2: they need speakers. You know, it helps if you look
[13:25] Speaker 2: like the population, because then you can actually insert you
[13:27] Speaker 2: into the the country.
[13:29] Speaker 3: But yeah, that's understanding. Yeah, and my understanding. To be
[13:33] Speaker 3: an FBI agent, it's best to go to laws.
[13:35] Speaker 2: Be a lawyer. Almost all FBI agents these days are lawyers.
[13:37] Speaker 2: This wasn't necessarily the case back then. So instead of
[13:40] Speaker 2: becoming a spy with his NBA, he decides I need
[13:43] Speaker 2: to get a job. He becomes a certified public accountant,
[13:47] Speaker 2: very far from being a spot Yeah. So basically now
[13:49] Speaker 2: he's on the life path of one of my heroes,
[13:51] Speaker 2: Bob Newhart. Because just like Bob Newhart, Bob Hansen is
[13:55] Speaker 2: an accountant in Chicago who dreams of chasing a wholly
[13:58] Speaker 2: different career. Except like Bob Newhart, he doesn't want to
[14:01] Speaker 2: become a nightclub comic obviously. He wants to become something else,
[14:05] Speaker 2: something in law enforcement or being a spy. And he's like,
[14:08] Speaker 2: you know what he transfers as an accountant. It becomes
[14:11] Speaker 2: a Chicago cop.
[14:12] Speaker 3: Wow, this is the securitest.
[14:14] Speaker 2: Roots, right, just like dear old Dad. He goes to
[14:16] Speaker 2: work though in the financial crimes division. He puts his
[14:18] Speaker 2: education to use. He starts doing forensic accounting for the
[14:21] Speaker 2: Chicago PD. That's good stuff this last four whole years.
[14:25] Speaker 2: But those nagging dreams, those childhood aspirations, are becoming a
[14:28] Speaker 2: real life spy. They just won't leave him be. So
[14:31] Speaker 2: after four years as an accountant for the Chicago pd
[14:34] Speaker 2: he applies to join the Federal Bureau of Investigations, currently
[14:38] Speaker 2: lower bar than the NSSA, because this time he gets hired.
[14:43] Speaker 2: Oh yeah. In January seventy six, he joins the FBI
[14:47] Speaker 2: as a special agent. His primary focus is counter intelligence.
[14:51] Speaker 2: So when he starts work at the FBI, he swears
[14:53] Speaker 2: to this oath. I won't read you the whole thing,
[14:55] Speaker 2: but the key points are that he will quote support
[14:58] Speaker 2: and defend the Constitution United States against all enemies, foreign
[15:02] Speaker 2: and domestic. So help him God.
[15:04] Speaker 3: That is the key of all. You know, a lot
[15:06] Speaker 3: of a lot of people take that oath.
[15:09] Speaker 2: Bunch, Milt forsake it, Mike, Bob Hanson. So this oath
[15:15] Speaker 2: is important because it'll become the measure of how much
[15:17] Speaker 2: he betrays his nation, our constitution, and even his God. Also,
[15:21] Speaker 2: it's notable it takes him less time to decide to
[15:23] Speaker 2: become a trader than it took him to decide to
[15:25] Speaker 2: quit the Chicago p D. Because within three years of
[15:29] Speaker 2: joining the FBI, Bob Hansen decides to betray his oath
[15:32] Speaker 2: and starts spying against the United States.
[15:36] Speaker 3: I would never you and I should join the FBI
[15:38] Speaker 3: because I hear they hire podcasters. Yeah, I would not
[15:41] Speaker 3: betray the USA.
[15:43] Speaker 2: I wouldn't betray an oath. If I take an oath, betray.
[15:45] Speaker 3: Any like a solemn oath like that, forget it.
[15:48] Speaker 2: It's your solemn word, that is That's it. I believe that. Yeah,
[15:52] Speaker 2: a person's you know, word is their bond, as it
[15:55] Speaker 2: said correctly. So what happens in this three years time
[15:58] Speaker 2: that he decides to betray all of that he has
[16:01] Speaker 2: sworn to great question Elizabeth through a game.
[16:04] Speaker 3: I guess sometimes I get up and I'm like today's day.
[16:07] Speaker 3: I am so curious and so fast, and Zaren's just
[16:10] Speaker 3: gonna piss himself when.
[16:11] Speaker 2: He hears me. I got a wet leg already. So
[16:14] Speaker 2: if you ever wanted something so bad but when you
[16:16] Speaker 2: get it, you're.
[16:17] Speaker 3: Like, eh, yeah, or you never wanted a lot to.
[16:20] Speaker 2: Join something, but when you do join up, you're like,
[16:22] Speaker 2: I don't like these people, yeah that too, or even worse,
[16:25] Speaker 2: did you ever have the feeling man these people really
[16:27] Speaker 2: don't like me.
[16:28] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a lot, like a lot, a lot.
[16:30] Speaker 2: You related all those things. So, according to report from
[16:33] Speaker 2: the Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Justice,
[16:35] Speaker 2: which looked into how one of the FBI's special agents
[16:38] Speaker 2: could go rogue, and I'll be quoting from their report throughout,
[16:41] Speaker 2: Bobby Hanson was not a good fit at the FBI.
[16:44] Speaker 2: They found this out too late. The same report concludes
[16:48] Speaker 2: that Robert Hanson quote had poor interpersonal skills and a
[16:51] Speaker 2: dour demeanor, and was an awkward and uncommunicative loaner who
[16:55] Speaker 2: conveyed a sense of intellectual superiority that alienated many of
[16:59] Speaker 2: his co workers. That's the worst, right, So his coworkers
[17:02] Speaker 2: eventually give Bob a nickname. They start calling him the Mortician,
[17:05] Speaker 2: which is the sort of nickname that says it all
[17:07] Speaker 2: in like four syllables.
[17:08] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally right.
[17:09] Speaker 2: So Hanson he was known to wear dark suits, have
[17:11] Speaker 2: this humorless dower demeanor, and he viewed himself as separate
[17:14] Speaker 2: and above everyone else at work. However, he was a
[17:17] Speaker 2: hard worker. For instance, the DOJ report indicates that quote
[17:21] Speaker 2: Hanson demonstrated significant initiative and organizational skills, developing, for example,
[17:26] Speaker 2: a case prioritization system that remains in use today at
[17:29] Speaker 2: the FBI. So he was bid with systems by himself.
[17:33] Speaker 3: Good for him.
[17:33] Speaker 2: He was also keenly aware that computers were the future
[17:36] Speaker 2: of law enforcement in like nineteen seventy six, Yeah, which
[17:39] Speaker 2: made his quote. Early supervisors regarded him as smart, technically proficient,
[17:43] Speaker 2: and analytical. So he was like an early tech bro
[17:46] Speaker 2: for the FBI, and they're like, I like this guy
[17:48] Speaker 2: out of his jib. Good. So first two years of
[17:50] Speaker 2: the FBI are spent at the field office in Gary, Indiana. Now,
[17:54] Speaker 2: oh heck, he tries to work on counterintelligence, but apparently
[17:58] Speaker 2: there aren't too many Soviet spies working in the Gary
[18:00] Speaker 2: metropolitan area. So yeah, Jackson, Yeah, totally Gary.
[18:06] Speaker 3: So he was just like all he anyone ever wanted
[18:08] Speaker 3: to talk about was Jackson family gossip.
[18:11] Speaker 2: It's a depressed economic or was it the time? Definitely
[18:14] Speaker 2: a depressed economic area. Oh yeah, so I imagine it
[18:16] Speaker 2: was mostly like you know, once again, like labor organizations
[18:19] Speaker 2: that they're trying to like pay attention to, following in
[18:22] Speaker 2: like the Jimmy Hoffa era, right, yeah. Yeah, So he
[18:24] Speaker 2: was primarily working like a financial crimes right, and that
[18:27] Speaker 2: pushes Bobby to ask for a transfer to the New
[18:29] Speaker 2: York Field Office where he can work counter intelligence to
[18:33] Speaker 2: the big show. Yeah, and he wants to be a
[18:34] Speaker 2: spy hunter. So the FBI is like, yeah, we'll see
[18:38] Speaker 2: about that. So but he does get transferred to the
[18:40] Speaker 2: New York Field Office eventually, like six months later, and
[18:43] Speaker 2: it's to work though on financial crimes. So he requests
[18:47] Speaker 2: after spending six months there he can work counterintelligence. I
[18:50] Speaker 2: really want to be a spy hunter. And he's like,
[18:53] Speaker 2: come on, man, come on, let me hunt spies. And
[18:55] Speaker 2: eventually some of the FBI is like, fine, Bob, shut,
[18:58] Speaker 2: if we let you hunt Soviet spot, will you leave
[19:00] Speaker 2: us alone? So he gets transferred to the Soviet counterintelligence squad, right,
[19:05] Speaker 2: but he's still being tasked primarily with financial crimes. He's
[19:08] Speaker 2: an accountant, there's plenty, so he's not doing true spy hunting.
[19:12] Speaker 2: He's working in the budget unit for the Soviet Analytical Unit. Okay, Now,
[19:16] Speaker 2: if like me, you're wondering, what does the budget unit
[19:19] Speaker 2: for the Soviet Analytical Unit end up doing, Like do
[19:22] Speaker 2: they track like financial payments or black market and gray
[19:25] Speaker 2: market accounts?
[19:25] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[19:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, kinda. But mostly what he does is work on
[19:29] Speaker 2: the FBI's budget to justify the bureau's budget request to Congress.
[19:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, signing off on like all the flights.
[19:35] Speaker 2: Literally he has to like prepare reports for Congress to
[19:37] Speaker 2: be like, okay, you guys are because you know, we're
[19:39] Speaker 2: right now at the Church Committee hearing, So the FBI
[19:42] Speaker 2: is on a very tight leash. We want to see
[19:45] Speaker 2: the receipt.
[19:45] Speaker 3: It would be you know, I'm a little disappointed in
[19:47] Speaker 3: the FBI because you have to be very suspicious, and
[19:50] Speaker 3: I would be very suspicious of someone with no training,
[19:54] Speaker 3: yes in Soviet culture history language, no Russian language training, be.
[19:59] Speaker 2: Like I need to I really need to wear counter toe.
[20:01] Speaker 2: He's in there, so eventually he does get access to
[20:06] Speaker 2: classified materials from the Intelligence Division. He also works with
[20:09] Speaker 2: the CIA and the NSA whenever the agencies have like
[20:12] Speaker 2: a joint venture with the FBI. So he isn't exactly
[20:14] Speaker 2: a spy hunter. He isn't a spy either. He's an
[20:17] Speaker 2: FBI accountant who works with their spy agencies. Unfortunately for him,
[20:21] Speaker 2: early on in his FBI career, his boss is determined
[20:24] Speaker 2: he's not really someone who's on the career fast path
[20:26] Speaker 2: for promotion since quote. His performance also revealed that he
[20:30] Speaker 2: lacked the interpersonal skills to communicate effectively and perform supervisory duties.
[20:35] Speaker 2: That said, as the DJ admitted him their report quote. Nonetheless,
[20:38] Speaker 2: Hanson's career at the FBI continued to advance. So he
[20:41] Speaker 2: just keeps getting bumped around, but not really kicked up.
[20:43] Speaker 2: The latter per.
[20:44] Speaker 3: Se, Yeah, there's a Ben Affleck movie, the Accountant. He
[20:48] Speaker 3: had something to look forward to.
[20:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a hit man.
[20:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe one day.
[20:53] Speaker 2: At this point, it's the late nineteen seventies, Robert Hanson
[20:55] Speaker 2: is mad because even hew he can see the writing
[20:57] Speaker 2: is on the wall, even if it's written an invisible link.
[21:00] Speaker 2: He sees the promotions other agents earn, he sees the
[21:02] Speaker 2: promotions he fails to achieve. So what happens? Another great question, Elizabeth,
[21:06] Speaker 2: So you're keeping up too. The former wanna be spy
[21:09] Speaker 2: hunter gets so close to his dreams and then he
[21:11] Speaker 2: realizes he'll never achieve them, and he gets madder and
[21:13] Speaker 2: madder about this until finally he just gets pissed at
[21:16] Speaker 2: the FBI. So now what does he do? Well? He decides,
[21:18] Speaker 2: if I can't hunt spies for the FBI. Then the
[21:21] Speaker 2: FBI will have to hunt for me. In other words,
[21:24] Speaker 2: he decides to become a spy for the Soviet Union.
[21:27] Speaker 2: That'll show his bosses at the FBI what they missed
[21:29] Speaker 2: out on. It's admittedly backwards logic, but it's what he thinks.
[21:33] Speaker 2: So let's take a little break, and when we get back,
[21:35] Speaker 2: we'll learn how he turns double agents. We're back, Elizabeth
[22:00] Speaker 2: this we are you ready to learn more about bad
[22:02] Speaker 2: body hands. Okay, So at this point, like I said,
[22:06] Speaker 2: it's like nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty. He's working at
[22:09] Speaker 2: the FBI's New York Field office, and so one day
[22:11] Speaker 2: he decides to wander into the New York office for
[22:13] Speaker 2: am TORG. Now am Torg was a trade organization for
[22:17] Speaker 2: the Soviet Union. It was also, according to the DOJ report,
[22:20] Speaker 2: known to be a front for the Soviet military intelligence agency.
[22:24] Speaker 2: So he just walks right in, walks right in. This
[22:26] Speaker 2: is not a chance to visit or a serendipitous encounter.
[22:28] Speaker 2: He knows full well and good he's walking into a
[22:30] Speaker 2: front for the Soviet spy services.
[22:32] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[22:33] Speaker 2: In fact, he brings them a gift to show his
[22:35] Speaker 2: value as a spy. He delivers a package to a
[22:38] Speaker 2: Soviet field officer for the GRU. What is the GRU,
[22:41] Speaker 2: great question, Elizabeth. Let's go over a couple terms and
[22:44] Speaker 2: acronyms that may come up later. First, there's the KGB,
[22:47] Speaker 2: which is short for the Committed Tet gos Sodarovitsni Basotzi,
[22:52] Speaker 2: or the Committee for State Security. Forgive my Russian. It's
[22:55] Speaker 2: the Russian equivalent for the FBI. Is also the SVR,
[22:58] Speaker 2: which is short for theos Rolls. Once again, forget my Russian.
[23:05] Speaker 2: You could just say, no, it's much more fun to
[23:07] Speaker 2: me to butcher this. It's the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service SBR. Right,
[23:11] Speaker 2: it's the equivalent of the KGB's foreign intelligence arm for
[23:14] Speaker 2: the Russian Federation. And finally, there's the g r U,
[23:17] Speaker 2: which is short for a glovnoa where the nya rapavl
[23:23] Speaker 2: something close to that. So it's the Chief Intelligence.
[23:25] Speaker 3: Direct backwards, will it say what it really means, You'll.
[23:28] Speaker 2: Say, Paul is dead, Chief Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff.
[23:32] Speaker 2: It's the military intelligence for both the Soviet Union and
[23:34] Speaker 2: the later Russian Federation. Yeah, okay, so back to our story.
[23:38] Speaker 2: In the letter he includes in his package for the Soviets.
[23:41] Speaker 2: Robert Hansen spells out that he is an FBI field agent.
[23:44] Speaker 2: I am an FBI agent, so he wants to switch
[23:50] Speaker 2: teams inspire for the Soviet Union. His package reveals no
[23:53] Speaker 2: identifying information of who he is, but he insists that
[23:56] Speaker 2: g r U should trust him, that he really is
[23:59] Speaker 2: an FBI agent and he can get them all sorts
[24:01] Speaker 2: of classified materials. And so for the next year and
[24:05] Speaker 2: a half he does exactly that. He sells out his nation,
[24:08] Speaker 2: but more than for money, he does it because he's
[24:11] Speaker 2: just pissed off and he wants to prove that he
[24:12] Speaker 2: should be a player in the spy world. And then
[24:15] Speaker 2: he finally has achieved his dream of being a real
[24:17] Speaker 2: life James Bond, only for the other side.
[24:19] Speaker 3: Do you think the Russians thought it was a trap?
[24:22] Speaker 2: Hold that thought? So his initial trial run as a
[24:25] Speaker 2: Soviet spy doesn't last long because in nineteen eighty he's
[24:28] Speaker 2: working doing a spycraft in his basement, going over classified
[24:31] Speaker 2: materials he plans to sell to the Soviets, readying his
[24:34] Speaker 2: next dead drop, you know, and wouldn't you know it,
[24:37] Speaker 2: his wife walks in and finds him doing his spycraft.
[24:40] Speaker 2: Hanson rushes to hide what he's working on. He's like
[24:42] Speaker 2: mixing up paperwork. His wife is no fool. She can
[24:45] Speaker 2: tell something up. She knows he works for the FBI,
[24:47] Speaker 2: so she questions him and he admits to his wife that, yes, baby,
[24:50] Speaker 2: I'm spying for the Soviets, selling American secrets.
[24:53] Speaker 3: He just says everything, just says it right now.
[24:56] Speaker 2: I think she was grilling him for a while. I
[24:57] Speaker 2: don't think it was his first answer.
[24:59] Speaker 3: He just walks in to the Soviet It's like, hey.
[25:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he's hiring. He's pretty arrogant about a lot
[25:05] Speaker 2: of these things. So his wife, devout Catholic that she is,
[25:08] Speaker 2: is horrified to lee that her husband is violating his
[25:11] Speaker 2: oath as an FBI field agent. Yeah, also that he's
[25:13] Speaker 2: helping the Kamis, and she makes him go to their
[25:16] Speaker 2: priest and tell him what he's done. So now this
[25:18] Speaker 2: Padrey he goes to is affiliated with the Opus Day
[25:20] Speaker 2: branch of the Church, well, which, as you know, is
[25:24] Speaker 2: a right wing Catholic organization. Well, very much anti communist.
[25:29] Speaker 3: Yes, and there are a lot of converts who enter
[25:33] Speaker 3: Catholicism in search of power, yes, and they love Opus Day.
[25:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[25:38] Speaker 3: I don't know any like crib Catholics.
[25:41] Speaker 2: The Catholic school. I knew a couple of guys. It
[25:42] Speaker 2: was like the really conservative Catholic families they like to
[25:46] Speaker 2: stay because it was one, you're right about the power part,
[25:49] Speaker 2: but two it's really stringent in terms of like, for instance,
[25:52] Speaker 2: he went to church. He attended Mass every single day.
[25:55] Speaker 2: Oh wow, every day, the six thirty am services, and
[25:58] Speaker 2: so a lot of them really liked that they had
[26:00] Speaker 2: their boys going to church every day, right, So being
[26:04] Speaker 2: a devout couple, they also have their six kids enrolled
[26:07] Speaker 2: in Catholic schools, ones associated with Opus Day, so it's
[26:09] Speaker 2: like very much a part of their life.
[26:11] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[26:11] Speaker 2: So when he goes and confesses to the priest that
[26:13] Speaker 2: he's working selling government secrets to the Communists of the
[26:16] Speaker 2: Soviet Union, the priest is like, you need to knock
[26:18] Speaker 2: it off. No a kidding, it's not. But the priest
[26:21] Speaker 2: is not at all cool with this, right, but he
[26:23] Speaker 2: decides not to rat him out. He's like, you're in
[26:25] Speaker 2: one of my prisoners.
[26:26] Speaker 3: I'm not going to go and heat the sanctity of
[26:28] Speaker 3: the confession completely.
[26:29] Speaker 2: So he doesn't. You know, apparently they can break that
[26:31] Speaker 2: on their discretion for murders. And stuff. So this might
[26:35] Speaker 2: fall under the I could break it on my discretion. Yeah,
[26:37] Speaker 2: he decides not. Instead, his opis stay priest quote granted
[26:41] Speaker 2: him absolution and told him that he did not have
[26:43] Speaker 2: to turn himself in, but suggested that he'd donate the
[26:45] Speaker 2: money he'd received from the gru to charity to the church. Yeah,
[26:49] Speaker 2: so this is all according to the DOJ report. An
[26:51] Speaker 2: old Bobby Hanton. He's good to his word to his priest.
[26:54] Speaker 2: He does donate money to the church, as you pointed out,
[26:57] Speaker 2: and he donates the money he made from spying from
[26:59] Speaker 2: the Soviets too, Mother Teresa's charity Little Sisters of the Poor.
[27:03] Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty one, he stops being a trader
[27:05] Speaker 2: to the US, he stops spying for the Soviets. I
[27:07] Speaker 2: guess also they might have been a factor. Is that
[27:09] Speaker 2: you had Ronald Reagan newly elected in nineteen eighty a
[27:12] Speaker 2: man who's famous for calling the Soviet Union the evil Empire. Yeah,
[27:15] Speaker 2: and old Bobby Hanson he may have decided, you know,
[27:18] Speaker 2: even if he was pissed at the FBI for passing
[27:20] Speaker 2: him over, he will quit spying for the evil Empire. Right. Also,
[27:24] Speaker 2: at this point he starts referring to Soviet Russians as godless. So,
[27:28] Speaker 2: now that he's no longer spying for the godless Soviets,
[27:31] Speaker 2: what do you think happens to Robert Hanson? Do you
[27:33] Speaker 2: think he becomes a happy employee, a man is just
[27:35] Speaker 2: eager to do his part in Reagan's America, to.
[27:37] Speaker 3: Do whatever he gave Guess no, no?
[27:39] Speaker 2: Or do you think maybe his ego is like, this
[27:41] Speaker 2: is bs man, the FBI still doesn't respect us. We
[27:43] Speaker 2: should go back to our old ways. Okay, yeah, yeah,
[27:47] Speaker 2: if you said that one, you're right. So Robert Hanson
[27:51] Speaker 2: he decides, you know, hold to the vow he gave
[27:54] Speaker 2: to his wife and his priest that he would stop
[27:55] Speaker 2: spying for the godless Russians. But he also really had
[27:58] Speaker 2: that nagging voice. He's like, I want to honor my
[28:02] Speaker 2: ego and my sense of injustice that I wasn't allowed
[28:05] Speaker 2: to become a spy hunter. So eventually, over time he
[28:07] Speaker 2: picks his ego over his vows to his wife and
[28:10] Speaker 2: his priest. Nineteen eighty five, he goes back to the
[28:13] Speaker 2: Soviet Union. He's like, hey, you guys want me to
[28:15] Speaker 2: spy for you again? Because I have some super tasty
[28:18] Speaker 2: classified materials I can sell you. The second time, though,
[28:21] Speaker 2: he doesn't mess around with the GRU the Soviet military intelligence. Instead,
[28:25] Speaker 2: he goes to the real fun guys at the KGB,
[28:28] Speaker 2: the true spy agency. Now, like any good spy would,
[28:30] Speaker 2: he creates a cover identity for himself. He identifies himself
[28:33] Speaker 2: and his dead drop deliveries as either the single letter
[28:36] Speaker 2: B or his other gnom de spy, Ramon Garcia.
[28:41] Speaker 3: Wait, that's like Carlos Danger exactly.
[28:45] Speaker 2: That's what I thought of from mong Garcia. So the
[28:48] Speaker 2: reason why he goes back to spying for the Soviets
[28:50] Speaker 2: is obviously clearly his ego and his sense of fun
[28:52] Speaker 2: and danger, and also the lack of work that the
[28:55] Speaker 2: FBI has for him to do. Because, according to the
[28:57] Speaker 2: DOJ report, quote, Hanson was alcadaisical manager who did not
[29:01] Speaker 2: interact effectively with his subordinates, but only that he didn't
[29:05] Speaker 2: really need to be like a hands on managerial type
[29:07] Speaker 2: since his squad quote largely ran itself. However, his coworkers
[29:12] Speaker 2: did grow increasingly suspicious of him and what he was doing. Yeah,
[29:15] Speaker 2: as the report also puts, quote, Hanson's mishandling of classified
[29:20] Speaker 2: information was obvious to his subordinates, but was not brought
[29:23] Speaker 2: to the attention of his superiors. Yeah. So at this point,
[29:27] Speaker 2: what secrets is he really selling to the Soviets?
[29:29] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[29:30] Speaker 2: Fantastic questions And did you hear the.
[29:32] Speaker 3: Way I asked it? Yeah? So I was like, how
[29:35] Speaker 3: does she do this?
[29:36] Speaker 2: Edge of the seat. So, according to the DOJ, Robert
[29:39] Speaker 2: Hanson reaches out to the KGB on October fourth, nineteen
[29:42] Speaker 2: eighty five. He drops an envelope in the mail and
[29:44] Speaker 2: he sends it to the home of a KGB field.
[29:47] Speaker 3: Agent in the US mail.
[29:49] Speaker 2: He sends it to the KGB agent. Inside the envelope
[29:52] Speaker 2: is a second envelope that reads, do not open Take
[29:55] Speaker 2: this envelope unopen to Victor I Cherkishon or Cherkishan. Victor
[30:00] Speaker 2: Cherkishan was a KGB field agent working out of the
[30:03] Speaker 2: Soviet Embassy in Washington, d C. Well known cat right.
[30:06] Speaker 2: The letter to Cherkishan identifies Robert Hanson by his new
[30:09] Speaker 2: spy name b Or Ramon Garcia, and in his letter
[30:13] Speaker 2: he writes that he will send a box of sensitive
[30:15] Speaker 2: documents from the US intelligence community. They are original documents,
[30:18] Speaker 2: not copies. He points out if these documents are discovered,
[30:21] Speaker 2: they will implicate him, so like be cool man. And
[30:24] Speaker 2: then he also said these documents can serve as evidence
[30:27] Speaker 2: of his value a highly placed double agent.
[30:30] Speaker 3: So what kind of stuff was he sending?
[30:33] Speaker 2: Well, I'll get to that in a second. In exchange,
[30:35] Speaker 2: he asked for one hundred grand in cash and as
[30:37] Speaker 2: like a little gift, he also shares the names of
[30:39] Speaker 2: three Soviet spies who flipped and are working with the
[30:42] Speaker 2: CIA and FBI.
[30:43] Speaker 3: What.
[30:44] Speaker 2: Yes, he promises the Soviets that if the price is right,
[30:47] Speaker 2: he'd be happy to be their new man in Washington. Lastly,
[30:50] Speaker 2: he makes arrangements for his future dead drops using a
[30:53] Speaker 2: code for dates and times. Remember he's watched all those
[30:56] Speaker 2: James Bond movies, right, Yeah. To show what a great
[30:58] Speaker 2: spy guy is, he explained his planned code for their communication.
[31:02] Speaker 2: His code is add six.
[31:05] Speaker 3: That's it.
[31:05] Speaker 2: So if he says meet him on February fourth at
[31:08] Speaker 2: three pm, he really means meet me on August tenth
[31:11] Speaker 2: at nine pm. Add six to any date or time.
[31:14] Speaker 3: Oh my god.
[31:15] Speaker 2: So there you go. Wanna be spy guy back in
[31:18] Speaker 2: the game. So, of course, the FBI field agents who
[31:21] Speaker 2: surveil the Soviet spies in Washington, DC, they note that
[31:24] Speaker 2: one day a known spy shows up to work with
[31:26] Speaker 2: a large black canvas bag he doesn't normally carry into
[31:29] Speaker 2: the office. Little do they know inside or classified materials
[31:32] Speaker 2: from Robert Hanson. The wanna be spy hunter is successful
[31:35] Speaker 2: at eluding the actual spy hunters. So far, so good
[31:39] Speaker 2: at this point, Robert Hanson and the Soviets, they set
[31:41] Speaker 2: up a series of dead drops. And now we've talked
[31:43] Speaker 2: about dead drops in the past, how they work, So
[31:45] Speaker 2: how does this want to be James Bond handle the
[31:48] Speaker 2: passing of classified materials via the so called dead drops?
[31:51] Speaker 2: Great question, Elizabeth. Now Hanson he explains to the Soviets
[31:56] Speaker 2: how they're going to do it. He's not the spy,
[31:59] Speaker 2: they are the spy. He's like, this is ever gonna
[32:00] Speaker 2: do it.
[32:01] Speaker 3: It's like I've seen so many Bond movies, some of
[32:03] Speaker 3: them twice.
[32:03] Speaker 2: He puts in like a in sections. So he goes
[32:06] Speaker 2: drop location. Please leave your package for me under the
[32:09] Speaker 2: corner nearest the street of the Wooden foot Bridge, located
[32:12] Speaker 2: just west of the entrance to Notaway Park. Package preparation
[32:16] Speaker 2: use a green or brown plastic trash bag and trash
[32:19] Speaker 2: to cover a waterproofed package. Signal location. Signal site will
[32:24] Speaker 2: be the pictorial pedestrian crossing signpost just west of the
[32:28] Speaker 2: main Notaway Park entrance on Old Courthouse Road. The sign
[32:31] Speaker 2: is the one nearest the bridge just mentioned signals. My
[32:35] Speaker 2: signal to you one vertical mark of white adhesive tape,
[32:38] Speaker 2: meaning I am ready to receive your package.
[32:42] Speaker 3: Oh wow.
[32:42] Speaker 2: Your signal to me one horizontal mark of white adhesive
[32:46] Speaker 2: tape meaning drop filled. My signal back to you, one
[32:49] Speaker 2: vertical mark of white adhesive tape, meaning I've received your package.
[32:54] Speaker 2: So the next month, in November eighty five, the Soviets
[32:57] Speaker 2: a Payhanson fifty thousand dollars for classified materials, which he
[33:00] Speaker 2: passed to them via their dead drop system. He also
[33:03] Speaker 2: has some ideas about how they can improve their clandestine communications.
[33:06] Speaker 3: So what he's saying, I'm going to put a vertical
[33:08] Speaker 3: piece of tape.
[33:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, then you put a cross and.
[33:10] Speaker 3: I want you to give it to me. And then
[33:13] Speaker 3: but then it also means I got it.
[33:15] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[33:15] Speaker 3: It's just so if they see it and they're like, wait,
[33:17] Speaker 3: we have to give him more.
[33:18] Speaker 2: Yeah. I think they's supposed to be time elapsing. Yeah,
[33:22] Speaker 2: So at this point he's got some ideas for them.
[33:25] Speaker 2: He recommends the Soviets contact him via a computer message board, or,
[33:28] Speaker 2: as he puts it, a micro computer bulletin board.
[33:32] Speaker 3: Oh wait years this eighty five.
[33:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, so that'll be their new agreed upon location with
[33:37] Speaker 2: appropriate encryption. Now the Soviets are like, yeah, maybe not,
[33:40] Speaker 2: let's use the rupts. I get this. Hanson also tells
[33:43] Speaker 2: the Soviets he doesn't really want all the cash that
[33:46] Speaker 2: they are offering him. In fact, if anything, the money
[33:48] Speaker 2: is kind of creating a hassle for him, so he
[33:50] Speaker 2: writes to his Soviet handlers, as far as the funds
[33:53] Speaker 2: are concerned, I have little need or utility for more
[33:56] Speaker 2: than one hundred thousand dollars. It merely provides a difficulty
[33:59] Speaker 2: since I can not spend it, store it, or invest
[34:02] Speaker 2: it easily without tripping drug money warning bills. Thanks for
[34:06] Speaker 2: the money, guys, kind of a headache, so I added up.
[34:10] Speaker 3: Still you got a bunch of kids, dude, Uh huh oh.
[34:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just doing it for the money. So instead
[34:14] Speaker 2: he suggests that they pay him uncut diamonds.
[34:18] Speaker 3: He loves spiced us.
[34:19] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally. Apparently he's early on, like the guy
[34:22] Speaker 2: Ritchie movie front.
[34:23] Speaker 3: How is he. I had a lot of questions there,
[34:27] Speaker 3: and you know, I think it'd be easier to wash
[34:29] Speaker 3: cash than diamonds.
[34:31] Speaker 2: Uh, if you know how to launder money. I mean,
[34:33] Speaker 2: he's an accountant, so you think he, of all people
[34:35] Speaker 2: would But he also is an accountant, so he knows
[34:37] Speaker 2: how difficult it is and how easy it is to
[34:39] Speaker 2: get caught with the paper trail.
[34:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, so he's just gonna hang on to the dim diamonds.
[34:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, I hold value, and they increase in value over time.
[34:46] Speaker 2: I guess you would hope Hanson tells the Soviet to
[34:48] Speaker 2: this point, perhaps some diamonds is security to my children
[34:51] Speaker 2: and some good will so that when the time comes,
[34:53] Speaker 2: you will accept my senior services as a guest lecturer.
[34:56] Speaker 2: Because you see Elizabeth, Bobby already has a plan for
[34:59] Speaker 2: his second as a trader. He as he confides to
[35:02] Speaker 2: his Soviet handlers, Eventually, I would appreciate an escape land
[35:05] Speaker 2: nothing less forever.
[35:06] Speaker 3: He's like, I want tenure.
[35:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, he wants to exactly become a professor by write
[35:11] Speaker 2: books about it. Now when he says nothing less forever,
[35:14] Speaker 2: and obviously that may have been part of him that
[35:16] Speaker 2: was trying to protect against another part of him that
[35:18] Speaker 2: thought it was a good idea to contact the KGB
[35:20] Speaker 2: using an FBI telephone line. Wait, true story. He calls
[35:24] Speaker 2: the KGB from an FBI phone line. Not only that,
[35:27] Speaker 2: he also uses an FBI answering machine for the KGB
[35:31] Speaker 2: to leave him messages.
[35:32] Speaker 3: He's a super spot.
[35:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, so you see. Around the same time he's developing
[35:35] Speaker 2: more of his spycraft tech team.
[35:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a scraft deal, right, he comes up with.
[35:39] Speaker 2: A new method to elude the FBI spy hunters and
[35:42] Speaker 2: get this, he says, we should communicate via use car ads.
[35:47] Speaker 2: Oh man, He writes the KGB about his new method.
[35:50] Speaker 2: If you wish to continue our discussions, please have someone
[35:52] Speaker 2: run an advertisement in the Washington Times during the week
[35:55] Speaker 2: of one twelve eighty seven or one nineteen eighty seven
[35:59] Speaker 2: for sale Dog Diplomat nineteen seventy one needs engine work
[36:02] Speaker 2: one thousand dollars. Give a phone number and time of
[36:05] Speaker 2: day in the advertisement where I can call. I will
[36:07] Speaker 2: call and leave a phone number where a recorded message
[36:10] Speaker 2: can be left for me. In one hour. I will
[36:12] Speaker 2: say hello, my name is Ramone. I'm calling about the
[36:15] Speaker 2: car you offered for sale in the Times. You will
[36:17] Speaker 2: respond I'm sorry, but the man with the car is
[36:20] Speaker 2: not there. Can I get your number? The number will
[36:22] Speaker 2: be in area code two one two. I will not
[36:24] Speaker 2: specify that area code on the line signed ramone.
[36:28] Speaker 3: So that, okay, you say this, and then I'm going
[36:32] Speaker 3: to say this.
[36:33] Speaker 2: Roman Garcia, you wild come. So you have to remember
[36:36] Speaker 2: it to add his six or his plus six code
[36:39] Speaker 2: on top of the used car ads such that when
[36:41] Speaker 2: he says these advertisement weeks, he really means July sixth
[36:44] Speaker 2: and or July thirteen day.
[36:46] Speaker 3: Like we totally forgot about plus six thing, dude.
[36:49] Speaker 2: So now that the used car ads does run as instructed,
[36:52] Speaker 2: a call is placed in a response that begins a
[36:54] Speaker 2: series of calls back and forth. The bad news for
[36:57] Speaker 2: Robert Hanson is one of their calls gets recorded by
[37:00] Speaker 2: the Russians. So on Monday, course August eighteenth, nineteen eighty six,
[37:05] Speaker 2: Robert Hanson phones a KGB agent. Now, Elizabeth, i'd like
[37:09] Speaker 2: you to be Robert Hanson. I will be the KGB agent.
[37:13] Speaker 3: Oh, we're doing so many playoffs.
[37:16] Speaker 2: I love it, Okay, I thought we could have some
[37:18] Speaker 2: fun with the more ridiculous crime theater.
[37:20] Speaker 3: I love ridiculous crime.
[37:21] Speaker 4: Pay you opened it up with okay tomorrow morning.
[37:35] Speaker 2: Oh yes, and the car is still available for you.
[37:37] Speaker 2: And as we have agreed last time, I prepared all
[37:39] Speaker 2: the papers and I left them on the same table.
[37:41] Speaker 2: You didn't find them because I put them in another
[37:44] Speaker 2: corner of the table. I see you shouldn't water. Everything
[37:47] Speaker 2: is okay, The papers are with me now.
[37:49] Speaker 3: Good.
[37:50] Speaker 2: I believe under these circumstances. MMMM, it's not necessary to
[37:54] Speaker 2: make any changes concerning the place and the time. Our
[37:56] Speaker 2: company is reliable and we are ready to give you
[37:58] Speaker 2: a substantial discount, which will be enclosed in the papers.
[38:01] Speaker 2: Now about the date of our meeting, I suggested that
[38:04] Speaker 2: our meeting will be will take place without delay on
[38:07] Speaker 2: February thirteenth, one three one pm.
[38:10] Speaker 3: Okay, February thirteenth, February.
[38:12] Speaker 2: Second, thirteenth one three one three yes, thirteenth one pm.
[38:19] Speaker 3: Let me see if I can do that.
[38:20] Speaker 2: Hold on okay, yeah, hello, okay, six six, That should
[38:31] Speaker 2: be fine. Okay. We will confirm you that the papers
[38:34] Speaker 2: are waiting for you with the same horizontal tape in
[38:37] Speaker 2: the same place as we did at that the first time.
[38:40] Speaker 3: Very good.
[38:41] Speaker 2: Now their convent goes on like this, I won't give
[38:42] Speaker 2: you the whole thing, but they exchange a few more
[38:44] Speaker 2: pleasantries like it's an actual transaction for a used car.
[38:47] Speaker 2: And then the KGB agent says, I hope you remember
[38:49] Speaker 2: the addresses. If everything is.
[38:52] Speaker 3: Okay, well I believe it should be fine. Thank you
[38:54] Speaker 3: very much.
[38:55] Speaker 2: Not at all, not at all, nice job for both
[38:58] Speaker 2: of us. Have a nice evenings.
[39:01] Speaker 3: Doa bye bye.
[39:04] Speaker 2: There you go. That is a real life transcribed spy
[39:07] Speaker 2: exchange brought to life by the RC players. Can I
[39:11] Speaker 2: say how much I love that the FBI guy says
[39:14] Speaker 2: goodbye and Russian and the KGB agents like bye bye.
[39:17] Speaker 2: These two were like children pretending to be spies on
[39:20] Speaker 2: their like two cans and a string walkie talkie setup.
[39:23] Speaker 3: Like whispering, totally whispering with someone off the like I
[39:27] Speaker 3: do not know.
[39:27] Speaker 2: It's just a transcription, so it doesn't say. And also
[39:30] Speaker 2: they mentioned their white tape, their whole thing in the
[39:33] Speaker 2: car horizontal exactly.
[39:35] Speaker 3: I mean, I think he was putting everything on FBI letterheads,
[39:39] Speaker 3: all his little notes.
[39:39] Speaker 2: Oh get this. Speaking of amateur hour, Hansen, former accountant,
[39:43] Speaker 2: chooses to use a well documented savings account for his
[39:46] Speaker 2: KGB funds that he receives for selling these American secrets.
[39:50] Speaker 2: So remember he had a Swiss bank account as a kid.
[39:52] Speaker 2: Once he starts selling US secrets, he's like, I'm sure
[39:55] Speaker 2: any old bank account is fine to use.
[39:57] Speaker 3: The FBI credit union.
[39:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And also like at this time, Hanson is
[40:02] Speaker 2: once again setting off alarm bells at the FBI with
[40:05] Speaker 2: his personal comportment. Like he's not the dapper, ever cool
[40:08] Speaker 2: James Bond you would want to be. He believes himself
[40:10] Speaker 2: to be that doj reported Quoted earlier, one of his
[40:13] Speaker 2: supervisors at the Soviet Analytical Unit describes Robert Hanson as
[40:17] Speaker 2: quote the strangest person he's ever worked with in the FBI.
[40:20] Speaker 2: Oh what kind of cipher? Who was rigid, dower and
[40:23] Speaker 2: a religious zelot. He's also called distant and arrogant. So
[40:27] Speaker 2: at this point he's setting off alarm bells, but only
[40:29] Speaker 2: for being a weirdo.
[40:30] Speaker 3: Yeah right, Yeah.
[40:30] Speaker 2: Not only that, there's also this one story about how
[40:32] Speaker 2: Hanson quote committed a serious security breach by disclosing sensitive
[40:36] Speaker 2: informations to a Soviet defector he was debriefing. Hanson's colleagues
[40:40] Speaker 2: recognized that he could not be trusted with highly sensitive
[40:42] Speaker 2: information and informally attempted to restrict his access. Although this
[40:47] Speaker 2: security breach was reported to an FBI supervisor, it was
[40:50] Speaker 2: not documented and no formal action was taken against Hanson,
[40:53] Speaker 2: whose access to sensitive information remained largely unchecked. So he's
[40:57] Speaker 2: slipping messages to Soviet defectors. His people, like.
[41:00] Speaker 3: His coworkers, realize that, they're like, don't.
[41:02] Speaker 2: Show them this report, right, They're not like. So despite
[41:05] Speaker 2: the warning sides, Robert Hanson somehow continues to work as
[41:08] Speaker 2: a spy for the Soviet Union, and nobody suspects it.
[41:11] Speaker 2: Except there's this one giant looming problem on the horizon,
[41:15] Speaker 2: a problem that few, if any other spies at the
[41:17] Speaker 2: CIA or the FBI detected. The problem was Elizabeth, the
[41:21] Speaker 2: complete collapse of the Soviet Union.
[41:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that little hiccup.
[41:26] Speaker 2: Become a major problem for the American traders selling them secrets. Yeah.
[41:30] Speaker 2: So before we get into that, let's take a little break.
[41:32] Speaker 2: Let's just some ads, and when we get back, we
[41:33] Speaker 2: will answer the question, how do you keep spying if
[41:36] Speaker 2: your main buyer of secrets goes out of business? We're
[41:59] Speaker 2: back a bit, yes we are. Now you're digging the
[42:02] Speaker 2: spying escapade, Amateur Hower Bob Hanson.
[42:05] Speaker 3: I just I can't believe the bumbling nature of it,
[42:08] Speaker 3: and the arrogance and the arrogance, and like, holy, this
[42:11] Speaker 3: is my whole life stream.
[42:12] Speaker 2: I thought a lot about this for years. You just
[42:15] Speaker 2: can't tell.
[42:16] Speaker 3: Exactly he's that good of a spine.
[42:19] Speaker 2: Now, before we get to the fall of this union,
[42:21] Speaker 2: let's answer a couple of key questions. First up, what
[42:25] Speaker 2: kinds of secrets was he selling? I didn't answer that earlier,
[42:27] Speaker 2: and I meant to. I forgot to get to that.
[42:29] Speaker 2: So I have here for you before me the DOJ
[42:33] Speaker 2: report on his spying, and they claim that quote Hanson
[42:36] Speaker 2: delivered thousands of pages of highly classified documents and dozens
[42:40] Speaker 2: of computer discs to the KGB, detailing US strategies in
[42:43] Speaker 2: the event of nuclear war, major developments and military weapons technology,
[42:47] Speaker 2: identities of active and historical US assets in the Soviet
[42:51] Speaker 2: intelligence services, the locations of KGB defectors in the United States,
[42:56] Speaker 2: analytical products from across the intelligence community, coppers of budget
[43:00] Speaker 2: and policy documents, and many other aspects of the Soviet
[43:04] Speaker 2: counterintelligence program. So basically everything. I just, yeah, he's he's good.
[43:09] Speaker 2: You know, he's getting people killed too.
[43:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not like little tiny financial.
[43:14] Speaker 2: Things that he's identities, people's department, new weapons. Yeah, how
[43:20] Speaker 2: they're getting caught. So not only is all this going down,
[43:24] Speaker 2: he's also getting rather sloppy now about his spy because
[43:27] Speaker 2: he's going so well for he Now it gets way
[43:31] Speaker 2: worse because, as the DOJ tells it, Hanson quote became
[43:34] Speaker 2: increasingly careless, passing documents that clearly marked him as an
[43:38] Speaker 2: FBI employee. For instance, there's his one point, Elizabeth, he
[43:41] Speaker 2: tried to convince the KGB to hire his best friend
[43:44] Speaker 2: as a spy. Wait, the DOJ outlines a quote, in
[43:49] Speaker 2: a particularly reckless move, Hanson suggested to the KGB that
[43:53] Speaker 2: an attempt to recruit Jack Hoshauer, Hanson's closest friend, who
[43:57] Speaker 2: was then serving as a military attest at the US
[44:00] Speaker 2: Embassy in Bond in Germany. Yeah yeah, So meanwhile, there's
[44:03] Speaker 2: this evidence of his spying. The money he's earning are
[44:06] Speaker 2: both growing in scale. He's trying to get his friends
[44:08] Speaker 2: hooked up. The KGB is paying him it so far
[44:11] Speaker 2: in cash about a half million dollars plus about three
[44:14] Speaker 2: uncut diamonds. I don't know how big. Yeah, what is
[44:17] Speaker 2: Hanson doing with all this money.
[44:18] Speaker 3: Well, question, I'm glad you asked.
[44:20] Speaker 2: He puts it in US bank accounts, not Swiss bank accounts,
[44:24] Speaker 2: And you asked earlier about like, oh the banks he
[44:27] Speaker 2: was using. Did just use any old bank, Elizabeth? It's
[44:30] Speaker 2: worse than that. He was using a bank located one
[44:32] Speaker 2: block from FBI headquarters. Sure, because I guess he's lazy.
[44:36] Speaker 2: He didn't want to have to walk too far.
[44:38] Speaker 3: Exactly.
[44:38] Speaker 2: There's something else that at one point he keeps about
[44:40] Speaker 2: one hundred grand in cash in a gym bag in
[44:42] Speaker 2: his bedroom closet. Don't you don't do that right where
[44:45] Speaker 2: his wife might find it? Who found, you know stuff?
[44:47] Speaker 2: Last time? You remember what happened last time? He had
[44:50] Speaker 2: to like confess to their preach, absolved to their sins,
[44:53] Speaker 2: and donate the money to mother Teresa.
[44:54] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[44:55] Speaker 2: So this that was only twenty one grand he had
[44:57] Speaker 2: to give to Mother Teresa. Now he's got like one
[44:58] Speaker 2: hundred grand. Who'll have to give the the sisters?
[45:00] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[45:01] Speaker 2: Anyway, this is exactly what happens to him. In August
[45:04] Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety, his wife does find only though luckily
[45:07] Speaker 2: tram five grand in her husband's dresser drawer, and she's like,
[45:11] Speaker 2: you better not be selling secrets to the Soviet Union again. Uh. Now,
[45:16] Speaker 2: this time she doesn't immediately confront her husband, though. Instead
[45:19] Speaker 2: she goes to her brother, Mark walk who is also
[45:22] Speaker 2: an FBI special agent.
[45:24] Speaker 3: Stop.
[45:25] Speaker 2: She tells him that he's selling secrets to the Soviet Union.
[45:29] Speaker 2: He reports this and other hinky things that he has
[45:32] Speaker 2: personally seen or heard about.
[45:34] Speaker 3: Hansen's to be able to total Yeah.
[45:37] Speaker 2: Tells his FBI supervisor. Now, will this be the end
[45:40] Speaker 2: for Robert Hanson? Yeah, No, no, not at all, because
[45:44] Speaker 2: the brother, like his boss, hears everything he's saying and
[45:47] Speaker 2: he's like, look, we all have our secrets from our wives, right,
[45:51] Speaker 2: I mean, just because he's hiding five grand in cash
[45:53] Speaker 2: from his wife, it doesn't mean he's spying for the Soviets.
[45:57] Speaker 2: And his FI boss uses not to follow up on it.
[46:00] Speaker 2: What Yes, So meanwhile, Hanson tells his wife, Okay, look,
[46:05] Speaker 2: I've stopped contacting the Soviets, right, I'm out of the
[46:08] Speaker 2: spy game, and I'll go talk to our priest and
[46:11] Speaker 2: confess my sins, Elizabeth. I can't say whether or not
[46:14] Speaker 2: he actually did go to the priest and confess I
[46:16] Speaker 2: can tell you he was not out of the spy game.
[46:19] Speaker 2: He was lying to his wife. He stayed in the
[46:21] Speaker 2: game for the money and his love of getting one
[46:23] Speaker 2: over on the FBI. So now the latter part is
[46:25] Speaker 2: easy enough to understand, But what about the former part.
[46:28] Speaker 2: Remember he told the Soviets he didn't really care about
[46:31] Speaker 2: the money, but he does care about the money. So
[46:33] Speaker 2: was he lying to them? Yes, yes he was. So
[46:36] Speaker 2: this raises another question. What's he spending the money on?
[46:40] Speaker 2: Great question, Elizabeth. According to the DOJ, he was spending
[46:42] Speaker 2: cash on cars and gifts for people. He loans some
[46:46] Speaker 2: money to his brother in law, the FBI agent. Yeah, same,
[46:50] Speaker 2: won to report. So now anyway, Hans also he builds
[46:52] Speaker 2: an addition onto his house. He pays his kids Catholic
[46:55] Speaker 2: school tuition in cash.
[46:57] Speaker 3: Yeah okay.
[46:58] Speaker 2: He drops plenty of loot at strip clubs, and specifically
[47:01] Speaker 2: he gives a bunch of money to one stripper in particular.
[47:04] Speaker 2: Oh no, oh yeah, you's seen it. About nineteen eighty
[47:06] Speaker 2: nine eight nineteen ninety, he meets one Priscilla Sue Grayley,
[47:11] Speaker 2: who was an exotic dancer. He starts a platonic affair
[47:14] Speaker 2: with her.
[47:14] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because no, she really loves me.
[47:16] Speaker 2: Guys, No, they both claim it's a platonic affair. Either way.
[47:19] Speaker 2: He lavishes her with gifts like a brand new Mercedes Benz.
[47:22] Speaker 2: He also gives her a sapphire necklace. He gets her
[47:25] Speaker 2: a new computer. He gives her cash for dental work.
[47:27] Speaker 2: He's a clean up your teeth. Fi's that grill. He
[47:30] Speaker 2: also pays for her to have an American Express credit card.
[47:32] Speaker 2: He just pays the balance for her. Yeah, not only that,
[47:35] Speaker 2: he takes her with him to France and to another trip,
[47:39] Speaker 2: a work trip to Hong Kong. That's right, he takes
[47:42] Speaker 2: his stripper girlfriend, who is obviously not his wife, along
[47:44] Speaker 2: for an official FBI inspection in Hong Kong.
[47:48] Speaker 3: II.
[47:48] Speaker 2: The dude is getting super sloppy.
[47:51] Speaker 3: But he's getting away with it. So what does he
[47:53] Speaker 3: care exactly?
[47:54] Speaker 2: It just keeps fueling his arrogance. Years later, Priscilla shared
[47:58] Speaker 2: her recollections of what life was like with Robert Hanson
[48:01] Speaker 2: with CNN's Larry King, Oh Larry. She recalled to Larry
[48:05] Speaker 2: how she was working at a strip club that was
[48:07] Speaker 2: quote less than two miles from FBI headquarters in Washington,
[48:10] Speaker 2: d C. So it's like just down the road from
[48:12] Speaker 2: his bank. He would come in watch her undress to
[48:15] Speaker 2: like eighties music. And apparently one day Hanson tells his
[48:18] Speaker 2: waitress that quote he had never expected to see anyone
[48:21] Speaker 2: of such grace and beauty in a strip club. And
[48:25] Speaker 2: when she hears this from the waitress, who like rushes
[48:27] Speaker 2: to tell and Priscilla runs out to tell him, thanks
[48:30] Speaker 2: for the kind words. Or she told Larry King, I
[48:33] Speaker 2: think I chased him to thank him. It was so beautiful.
[48:35] Speaker 2: I had to know who had given it to me,
[48:38] Speaker 2: these words, these kind, kind words. And so begins their
[48:41] Speaker 2: fourteen month long friendship. I say that because she swears
[48:45] Speaker 2: they were never intimate. In fact, she tried to get
[48:47] Speaker 2: him to have sex. She tells Larry King that, and
[48:50] Speaker 2: she says he always declined her. According to Priscilla, he
[48:53] Speaker 2: was a wonderful, wonderful human being. She also recalled that
[48:56] Speaker 2: quote he talked lovingly of his wife and six children.
[49:00] Speaker 3: Oh, it's a wonderful human being's talking lovingly of his family.
[49:03] Speaker 2: She only knows about the money. She doesn't know he's
[49:05] Speaker 2: a spot. Yeah. So not only is he talking about
[49:09] Speaker 2: his wife and his six kids and giving out compliments
[49:11] Speaker 2: for her, like dancing to eighties music, I meet he
[49:14] Speaker 2: also talked a lot about God and being Catholic with her,
[49:16] Speaker 2: and as Priscilla said, every chance we could discuss religion,
[49:20] Speaker 2: it was right there. In fact, she says, Hansen tried
[49:23] Speaker 2: to convince her to quit stripping and to convert to Catholicism.
[49:27] Speaker 2: That did not happen. He could not marry Magdalen her away.
[49:31] Speaker 2: But what did happen is their relationship fell apart after
[49:34] Speaker 2: she used the AMEX credit card to buy Easter dresses
[49:37] Speaker 2: for her nieces. I don't know why he's offended by that,
[49:40] Speaker 2: I guess because he didn't give approval. Anyway, he takes
[49:42] Speaker 2: the American Express card away after that. She then also
[49:45] Speaker 2: wrecked the new Mercedes he got her, which she had
[49:48] Speaker 2: never insured, so she lost that. Oh no, she never
[49:51] Speaker 2: did learn to use that computer. And finally she was
[49:54] Speaker 2: locked up for prostitution. And the former friends will call
[49:57] Speaker 2: it parted ways for good now she was too much
[50:00] Speaker 2: of a liability, I guess. Anyway, things in his life
[50:02] Speaker 2: really started to change when one day after Christmas, the
[50:06] Speaker 2: day after Christmas in nineteen ninety one, the Soviet Union
[50:08] Speaker 2: unexpectedly collapsed. And now Hanson is no one to sell
[50:12] Speaker 2: his secrets to and he's really gotten kind of addicted
[50:14] Speaker 2: to the money and the fun lifestyle, and plus he
[50:17] Speaker 2: loves the spy game. So it's a bummer man, Like.
[50:20] Speaker 3: What's he supposed to do? And he made such good friends.
[50:23] Speaker 2: Except for good news for him is that after the
[50:25] Speaker 2: Soviet Union falls, it's soon replaced by the Russian Federation.
[50:29] Speaker 2: As far as Hanson can tell, they still might buy
[50:32] Speaker 2: American secrets, so he decides to reach out to the
[50:35] Speaker 2: new government see if he can spy for them. For
[50:37] Speaker 2: one after the Soviet Union falls, Hanson doesn't have much
[50:40] Speaker 2: work to do because that's a problem for him, so
[50:42] Speaker 2: he's like, I got time on Mansky spy for you guys.
[50:44] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[50:45] Speaker 2: His former unit gets broken up because remember he's a
[50:47] Speaker 2: Soviet analytical unit, so they don't have anything to analyze,
[50:50] Speaker 2: and he gets reassigned to the National Security Threat List unit.
[50:54] Speaker 2: So once he's transferred there, according to the DOJ, rather
[50:57] Speaker 2: than engage in the daily work of the unit, Hanson free,
[51:00] Speaker 2: He said in his office, listening to Ford and language
[51:02] Speaker 2: tapes for hours at a time. I'll give you one
[51:05] Speaker 2: guess what language he was trying to learn. Yes. Now, Additionally,
[51:11] Speaker 2: at the time Hanson he's still spying in his sloppy way, because,
[51:14] Speaker 2: according to the DOJ report quote, while in the NSTL unit,
[51:18] Speaker 2: Hanson committed two serious and flagrant security breaches. First, he
[51:21] Speaker 2: hacked into the FBI's computer system and accessed highly sensitive
[51:25] Speaker 2: Soviet counterintelligence documents located on the hard drives of his
[51:28] Speaker 2: colleagues and supervisors in the National Security Division. Hanson grew
[51:32] Speaker 2: nervous about what he had done and decided to report
[51:35] Speaker 2: it to FBI management in the guise of revealing a
[51:38] Speaker 2: flaw in the FBI's computer security. Hanson's ruse succeeded, and
[51:42] Speaker 2: no one questioned his breach of computer security. Right, you'd
[51:46] Speaker 2: think that the FBI would be suspicious.
[51:48] Speaker 3: I think that should get you fired on the spot.
[51:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. There's also a second security breach when he tells
[51:53] Speaker 2: someone from British intelligence about this sensitive FBI investigation. And
[51:57] Speaker 2: then there's a third one because he gets into a
[51:59] Speaker 2: fight with a female coworker at work, which leads to
[52:02] Speaker 2: an investigation of Hanson. The result out of all of this, yeah,
[52:05] Speaker 2: he's suspended for five days. That's it.
[52:07] Speaker 3: That's it.
[52:08] Speaker 2: The FBI never ever suspects he might be the biggest
[52:10] Speaker 2: double agent in Bureau's history. Meanwhile, Hanson is still super
[52:14] Speaker 2: eager to get back in the spy game, and he's
[52:16] Speaker 2: just waiting for the Russian Federation to get on their feet. Yeah,
[52:19] Speaker 2: and then you know, maybe they'll take him back. As
[52:21] Speaker 2: you know, because he's looking at him, he's like, I
[52:22] Speaker 2: don't think this whole new capitalist power is going to go.
[52:25] Speaker 2: I think they're going to revert to their former ways. Yeah,
[52:27] Speaker 2: I did. Exactly one day, Robert Hanson decides to do
[52:31] Speaker 2: a cold call with the GRU the military intelligence for
[52:34] Speaker 2: the new Russian Federation up. Yeah, but you know, rather
[52:37] Speaker 2: than me tell you about.
[52:38] Speaker 3: It, Elizabeth, close your eyes, my eyes closed, I.
[52:40] Speaker 2: Want you to picture it. It's a warm July day
[52:49] Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three. At the moment, Elizabeth, you were
[52:51] Speaker 2: seated in your car in the underground parking lot of
[52:54] Speaker 2: an apartment complex in Washington, DC. You have the air
[52:56] Speaker 2: conditioning on because it's been a sticky one and you
[52:59] Speaker 2: just need a moment of calm, quiet and cool. The
[53:02] Speaker 2: air conditioning blows true chill against your sweat dappled face.
[53:06] Speaker 2: You sigh to yourself as the stress drains away. You
[53:10] Speaker 2: hear a loud car door slam shut. It brings you
[53:13] Speaker 2: out of your moment of peace. You check the rear
[53:15] Speaker 2: view mirror and you see that across the parking lot
[53:18] Speaker 2: is a middle aged man in a business suit standing
[53:20] Speaker 2: next to his car. He checks his watch, he grabs
[53:22] Speaker 2: his briefcakes. Satisfied, he begins to walk off. You're about
[53:26] Speaker 2: to look away when you hear a muted whistle. Both
[53:29] Speaker 2: you and the man look to see what or who
[53:32] Speaker 2: was the source of the whistle. A man in a
[53:34] Speaker 2: trench coat, dressed like he's a detective in a mid
[53:36] Speaker 2: century noir film, steps out of the shadows. He walks
[53:40] Speaker 2: towards the middle aged man in the business suit. The
[53:42] Speaker 2: man in the trench coat nods. He says something, but
[53:45] Speaker 2: with the air conditioning on, you can't hear him. You
[53:47] Speaker 2: see him approach the middle aged man in the business suit,
[53:49] Speaker 2: who looks both curious and a bit scared of the
[53:52] Speaker 2: man in the trench coat. You guess that they haven't
[53:55] Speaker 2: heard your well maintained engine idling, so in order to
[53:58] Speaker 2: hear their conversation, you press a button in your car
[54:01] Speaker 2: window lowers. The man in the trench coat stops a
[54:04] Speaker 2: few feet from the man in the business suit, he
[54:06] Speaker 2: greets him in is that Russian? You recognize it from
[54:10] Speaker 2: the two semesters of Russian you took in college. You
[54:12] Speaker 2: lower yourself in the driver's seat and crane your head
[54:15] Speaker 2: toward the open car windows so you can hear them better.
[54:18] Speaker 2: The man in the trench coat reverts back to English,
[54:20] Speaker 2: and you hear him say I'm with the FBI. If
[54:23] Speaker 2: he didn't really just say the FBI. Is this some
[54:26] Speaker 2: sort of like Watergate moment? The man in the business
[54:28] Speaker 2: suit replies, in Russian accent in English, I have diplomatic
[54:32] Speaker 2: community and I have done nothing wrong. The man in
[54:34] Speaker 2: the trench coat smiles darkly. He seems pleased with that answer.
[54:38] Speaker 2: He says in response, before the Soviet Union collapse, I
[54:41] Speaker 2: used to work for the KGB. My name is Ramon Garcia,
[54:45] Speaker 2: and I have something for you. The Russian man now
[54:48] Speaker 2: seems curious but a little hesitant. The man in the
[54:51] Speaker 2: trench coat lifts a Manila envelope into view and he says,
[54:54] Speaker 2: this is for you. The Russian doesn't take it, but
[54:56] Speaker 2: he does continue to listen as the man in the
[54:58] Speaker 2: trench coat says, it's a list of double agents in
[55:01] Speaker 2: the gru that the FBI is running. Consider it a
[55:04] Speaker 2: show of my loyalty and evidence of my value. The
[55:07] Speaker 2: Russian MUD's the and repeats, but I'm just diplomats. The
[55:12] Speaker 2: man in the Trench Code slyly smirks and says, yeah, sure,
[55:15] Speaker 2: sure of course you are. But here take it. Give
[55:17] Speaker 2: it to your superiors if they like it. There's more
[55:20] Speaker 2: where that came from. There's instructions about how to contact me.
[55:24] Speaker 2: Holy crap, you think this is just like in the movies,
[55:27] Speaker 2: but kind of lamer. A double agent selling state secrets
[55:30] Speaker 2: in a shadowy parking lot. The Russian man is reluctant,
[55:34] Speaker 2: but he does take them the nil envelope. Good choice.
[55:37] Speaker 2: I look forward to hearing from you, says the man
[55:39] Speaker 2: in the Trench Code. He spins on his heels and
[55:41] Speaker 2: walks off. The Russian man watches him go for a moment.
[55:44] Speaker 2: He shakes his head to himself and then walks off
[55:47] Speaker 2: in the opposite direction. Meanwhile, you don't know what to
[55:50] Speaker 2: think or who to tell about what you just saw.
[55:53] Speaker 2: In the movies, witnesses like you to such transactions usually
[55:57] Speaker 2: wind up dead. You don't want to do that. You
[55:59] Speaker 2: have way too much to do this week. You can't
[56:01] Speaker 2: afford to wind up dead. So there you go, Elizabeth,
[56:04] Speaker 2: you just witnessed Robert Hansen cold call.
[56:08] Speaker 3: He's Russians, and if I'm the Russians, I'm like, who
[56:13] Speaker 3: is this numpty? I don't want nothing to do with them.
[56:16] Speaker 2: So this is his effort to get back in the
[56:18] Speaker 2: spy game, the more fumbling attempt you could possibly do.
[56:21] Speaker 2: So was he successful? Probably yes, The answer is no,
[56:26] Speaker 2: because the Russians he contacts, they're suspicious as all hell. Right,
[56:30] Speaker 2: who's this random American walking up and going I'm with
[56:32] Speaker 2: the KGM, I'm with the FBI, and you know, in
[56:36] Speaker 2: a Washington, DC parking lot of an apartment comp It's
[56:38] Speaker 2: just so random, and he's a double agents telling state secrets.
[56:41] Speaker 2: How many state secrets could this numpty really have? So
[56:45] Speaker 2: the Russian he does take the Manila envelope to his bosses.
[56:48] Speaker 2: They do look through it, but they also suspect this
[56:50] Speaker 2: must be a setup. Right at the time, the Russians
[56:52] Speaker 2: were working with the US government to rebuild their country
[56:55] Speaker 2: into this capitalist power under Yeltsin, so it's you know,
[56:59] Speaker 2: it's after the fall this union. This is not in
[57:01] Speaker 2: their best interest to betray the Americans, right, So the Russians.
[57:05] Speaker 2: They contact the FBI and they report the contact with
[57:08] Speaker 2: the double agent named Ramone Garcia because they assumed this
[57:11] Speaker 2: must be a test of their loyalty.
[57:13] Speaker 3: So that's a good call, right, smart, That's what real
[57:17] Speaker 3: spies do, Yes, exactly.
[57:19] Speaker 2: So when the FBI hears about this, the FBI is like, no,
[57:21] Speaker 2: we didn't run a counterintelligence test. Who did you say contact?
[57:24] Speaker 2: Did you Ramone Garcia? Was it? So the FBI opened, Yeah,
[57:29] Speaker 2: we don't have anyone on the roll call. So the
[57:32] Speaker 2: FBI the open investigation to find this purported double agent.
[57:35] Speaker 2: They create an investigative file on their computer system. And
[57:37] Speaker 2: you remember who's good of computers, right, m Yeah, Robert Hanson.
[57:41] Speaker 2: So he checks the investigative file to see what the
[57:43] Speaker 2: FBI has on Old Ramone Garcia. Oh, you're luckily for him.
[57:47] Speaker 2: The FBI opens the file and that was about all
[57:49] Speaker 2: they did with it. They also had nothing on Ramone Garcia. Meanwhile, Elizabeth,
[57:54] Speaker 2: there is another American spy selling state secrets at this
[57:58] Speaker 2: exact same time. Yeah, but do you remember the name
[58:00] Speaker 2: Aldrich Ames. Yeah, So he was another huge embarrassment of
[58:04] Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties and eighties for the American intelligence community.
[58:07] Speaker 2: Aldrich Ames is often described as this alcoholics CIA spy
[58:11] Speaker 2: who went rogue. And you see, the CIA had started
[58:14] Speaker 2: to believe they had this mole when double agents in
[58:16] Speaker 2: the former Soviet Union began to disappear. So to root
[58:19] Speaker 2: him out, the CIA investigates all their operations and starting
[58:22] Speaker 2: in March of ninety three, the CIA starts focusing on
[58:25] Speaker 2: Aldrich Ames. They bug his car, they rifle through his trash,
[58:28] Speaker 2: they have agents following him. Finally, in February of ninety four,
[58:32] Speaker 2: the CIA goes into action. They arrest Aldrich Ames and
[58:35] Speaker 2: what He's just on his way to attend a conference
[58:38] Speaker 2: in Moscow. So I think he knew they were onto him.
[58:40] Speaker 2: He's trying to cut loose. Yeah.
[58:41] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[58:41] Speaker 2: At that same time, Robert Hanson is busy willing the
[58:44] Speaker 2: New Russian Federation to get back in the spy game.
[58:47] Speaker 2: The secrets that he sells to the Russians make it
[58:49] Speaker 2: clear that Aldrich Ames isn't the only one selling state secrets.
[58:52] Speaker 3: But if the FBI is told by the Russians, an
[58:57] Speaker 3: FBI guy came to us and his name is Remote Garcia. Yeah,
[59:01] Speaker 3: They're like, that's not Did you open a file in
[59:04] Speaker 3: your computer? System on that if you know it's an insight.
[59:07] Speaker 2: Actually they could. They don't have an auditing program on
[59:10] Speaker 2: their computer, so they don't know who's accession, and I would.
[59:13] Speaker 3: Just be like, okay, this stays off the books, like
[59:15] Speaker 3: this is like elite.
[59:17] Speaker 2: No, No, there's a bunch of bumbling on all sides
[59:21] Speaker 2: except for the right.
[59:22] Speaker 3: Is very much changing my view on the sill level
[59:25] Speaker 3: of the FBI.
[59:26] Speaker 2: So the FBI, the CIA, they hear about this other
[59:28] Speaker 2: mole and they begin a tag team operation called Gray
[59:31] Speaker 2: Suit to ferret out the secret double agent. So I
[59:36] Speaker 2: swear to God like the suit so good. So there's
[59:39] Speaker 2: a plan for the FBI to run a polygraph lie
[59:41] Speaker 2: detector test for all their field agents, but the bosses
[59:44] Speaker 2: are against it. Now you may be thinking, oh, it's
[59:46] Speaker 2: like this is junk science exactly, but you think like,
[59:49] Speaker 2: maybe it's because it'll take a ton of time and
[59:50] Speaker 2: they're going to argue against him. But no, they're like,
[59:53] Speaker 2: a trained agent could beat a polygraph test. And also
[59:56] Speaker 2: to your point, it's it's bunk science. So eventually they're
[59:59] Speaker 2: joining investigation. Does turn up a possible mole? Is it
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: Ramon Garcia? Is it Robert Hanson? Essentially is it his
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: brother in law. No, it's a CIA spy named Brian Kelly.
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: He's totally innocent, but the US intelligence community is convinced
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: he's the rest selling the American secrets. So they ruined
[1:00:19] Speaker 2: this poor man's life. They just drive him like it's
[1:00:22] Speaker 2: it's bad now. Meanwhile, Robert Hanson not a suspect at all,
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: not on anyone's radar, despite his past with all the
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: times he's been flagged or red flagged for things.
[1:00:30] Speaker 3: I mean, it's like I've lost count Yes, a number
[1:00:33] Speaker 3: of times people will be like, well, the it wasn't
[1:00:36] Speaker 3: supposed to do. Then he printed up all these lists
[1:00:38] Speaker 3: and walked him across over to the MBC. Then there
[1:00:41] Speaker 3: was the time, I mean, and we call him, what
[1:00:44] Speaker 3: is the mortician?
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: The mortician? Yeah, nobody likes him. He thinks he's better
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: than everybody. So instead he's given a new cushy job
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: at the State Department because Civiet Union's gone, so he
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: doesn't have anything to do, so his new job is
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: essentially push paper around. Virtually no one checks his work.
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: He's left to loan for the next six years, six
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: years from ninety three to ninety nine, so according to
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: six years. Six years. According to the DOJ, Hanson apparently
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: would spend quote hours each day out of the office
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: or surfing the internet, watching movies on his personal laptop computer,
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: and visiting friends and acquaintances. Oh and also he was
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: still spying for the Russians.
[1:01:19] Speaker 3: So you know, there was absolutely nothing to do in
[1:01:22] Speaker 3: the FBI or the State Department in the late nineties.
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And by the way, the Russians from ninety
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: three to ninety nine, for that six year window, they
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: keep not they will not take him on as like
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: a new person. They're like, I don't know about this guy.
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: They're the only ones who are like, he's hanky like
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: so yeah, the ones who can benefit from what he
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: has are like, this guy is a mess. I am
[1:01:41] Speaker 2: not dealing with that. So in nineteen ninety six, he
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: is given a routine background check finally, not because he's
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: a suspect. It's just his routine background check. But it's
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: not all that routine because it's the first background check
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: he's done in twenty years since he was first hired
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: at the FBI. So when they run his background.
[1:02:00] Speaker 3: Even after he has those major security missteps.
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, nobody, let's just check up. So when they
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: do finally run a background check on him, you think
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: anything pops up. No, a ton of red flags pop up,
[1:02:12] Speaker 2: just a field of red flags like a meadow of flowers, right,
[1:02:17] Speaker 2: But the FBI dismisses them all. And get this, they
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: never call him in for an interview. What No, even
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: with all the red flags, they never talked to him.
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: They talk to a couple of his coworkers. They are like, yeah,
[1:02:29] Speaker 2: he's weird, and that's it.
[1:02:31] Speaker 3: He's just mediocre everyone.
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: He's just this annoying paper pusher, a man who doesn't
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: work well with others. And there's no way he's secretly
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: the biggest spy in FBI history. So how does he
[1:02:42] Speaker 2: get caught?
[1:02:43] Speaker 3: That's a very good questions answer, great.
[1:02:45] Speaker 2: Question, Elizabeth, and I will tell you. In nineteen ninety nine,
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: Hanson is playing around on FBI computers and he finds
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: the FBI is still investigating a suspected mole, but they're
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: convinced it's a CIA agent, so he feels safe to
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: try to make contact with the Russians again not looking
[1:03:00] Speaker 2: at me, which he does. This time. He finally gets
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: the Russians to take him seriously as Ramon Garcia, he
[1:03:07] Speaker 2: arranges to make new dead drops. Right, he's able to
[1:03:10] Speaker 2: pass the Russians information on the most significant Russian sources
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: at the CIA and the FBI have folks who flipped
[1:03:17] Speaker 2: and now work as double agents. And for that info,
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: he receives fifty grand as payment and the hook is
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: once again set. He is back on the line. Over
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: the next year, Hanson keeps passing the Russians all these
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: American secrets, but the Russians they still don't seem to
[1:03:31] Speaker 2: fully trust him because they often don't even go to
[1:03:34] Speaker 2: pick up the materials he leaves at the dead drops,
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: just like, I don't know, do you want to go?
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: You go?
[1:03:41] Speaker 3: Just that says thank you, tell.
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: Them we went, yeah, put the tape down, throw it away.
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: I don't know. So this pisses off Hanson because he's like,
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: do they not realize how valuable I am? So on
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: March fourteenth, two thousand, Hanson writes this pissy letter to
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: the Russians, and I quote Elizabeth, I've come a as
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: close as I ever want to come to sacrificing myself
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: to help you, and I get silence. I hate silence. Conclusion.
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: One might propose that I am either insanely brave or
[1:04:11] Speaker 2: quite insane. I'd answer neither. I'd say insanely loyal. Take
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: your pick. There is insanity in all the answers I have, However,
[1:04:20] Speaker 2: come as close to the edge as I can without
[1:04:22] Speaker 2: being truly insane. My security concerns have proven reality based.
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: I'd say, pin your hopes on insanely loyal and go
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: for it. Only I can lose. I decided on this
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: course when I was fourteen years old. Now that is insane, ey.
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: My only hesitations were my security concerns under uncertainty. I
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: hate uncertainty. So far I have judged the edge correctly.
[1:04:48] Speaker 2: Give me credit for that. Set the signal at my sight.
[1:04:52] Speaker 2: Any Tuesday evening, I will read your answer. Please at
[1:04:56] Speaker 2: least say goodbye. It's been a long time, my dear friend,
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: a long and lonely time, sincerely, Ramon Garcia.
[1:05:06] Speaker 3: Oh my god, he just wants closure. It's been a
[1:05:08] Speaker 3: long time, a long time, been along lonely, lonely, loly,
[1:05:12] Speaker 3: lonely lonely.
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: Time exactly, he writes the Dear John letter to the Russians,
[1:05:18] Speaker 2: begging them to use him as a spot.
[1:05:22] Speaker 3: Him. I'm not crazy. Yeah, when you hear that.
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: It is three definitions of crazy. I'm either this one
[1:05:30] Speaker 2: or that one. I'm take your pick on the third
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: of all. Actually all, I'm none of those. I'm another
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: secret crazy you haven't thought of. In the words of
[1:05:39] Speaker 2: my man bugs Bunny, what a maroon exactly. So, for
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: one last attempt to show how valuable he is, Hansen
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: shares with the Russians that underneath their new embassy in Washington,
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: d C. The FBI has dug a tunnel so they
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: can secretly snoop and listen to the Russians. That gets
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: their attention, he told, yes. But then something that he
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: never suspected would happen occurs. What's that? For a price
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: of seven million dollars, a former KGB spy hands over
[1:06:05] Speaker 2: to the FBI the Kremlins full dossier on this double
[1:06:09] Speaker 2: agent that they've been dealing with. That file becomes the
[1:06:12] Speaker 2: smoking gun. Unfortunately, though it only lists the fbis as
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: a double agent as Romote Garcia.
[1:06:18] Speaker 3: He annoyed them so much she s got They're like here,
[1:06:21] Speaker 3: you burn them.
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: So the FBI still needs to figure out who Romote
[1:06:25] Speaker 2: Garcia is. Luckily, for the counter intelligence operatives, there is
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: a fingerprint on one of the files.
[1:06:31] Speaker 3: You're kidding.
[1:06:31] Speaker 2: Also, there's that KGB recording that we dramatize craft excellent
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: phone call with the double agent, remember with the used
[1:06:38] Speaker 2: car there the diplomat yea. So two FBI agents recognized
[1:06:43] Speaker 2: the voice as their coworker, Bob Hanson. The FBI also
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: then uses the secrets that he passed to draw up
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: a list of possible suspects. Pretty much at the top
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: of that list, it's a very short list, is Robert Hanson.
[1:06:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: So they're like, okay, let's strike one, strike two, let's
[1:06:56] Speaker 2: go talk to Hanson. So they then have Hanson transferred
[1:06:59] Speaker 2: back FBI headquarters so they can monitor him round the clock. Yeah.
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: They also begin to surveil them. They follow him, they
[1:07:05] Speaker 2: surveiled known Russian operatives, and that's how on February twelve,
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: two thousand and one, the FBI is able to discover
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: a fifty grand payoff the Russians leave for Hanson at
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: a dead drop. Six days later, I'm not going to
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: fire him. Hanson leaves a package for the Russians under
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: that footbridge, taped up in a waterproof trash bag like
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: as he instructed. The dead drop takes place in this
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: spot called fox Stone Park in a Washington, DC suburb
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: called Vienna, Virginia or Vienna, I don't know. After Hanson
[1:07:33] Speaker 2: walks off, the FBI swoop in arrest him. When the
[1:07:36] Speaker 2: FPA agent finally bust him, Hanson coolly says, what took
[1:07:39] Speaker 2: you so long? Oh God, I'm guessing he practiced that
[1:07:42] Speaker 2: in the mirror.
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: He had to have, and I would have smacked. So
[1:07:48] Speaker 3: I would have slapped him right in front of everybody.
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, children like on like swings or just falling
[1:07:53] Speaker 2: up the swings, Like what did they do to that guy?
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: So he ends his spy career and also obviously the
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: biggest intelligence failure in FBI history. Obviously, the secret to
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: his success is not that he's some master spy, because
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: he was not. That he's not some real life James Bond.
[1:08:09] Speaker 2: In fact, quite the opposite. He's successful because everyone looks
[1:08:12] Speaker 2: past him, Everyone underestimates him, everyone thinks he's an idiot
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: or annoying. They assume that the weird guy that they
[1:08:18] Speaker 2: called the Mortician is just some kind of like unfunny joke. Yeah,
[1:08:22] Speaker 2: even the Russians don't respect him, and they're benefiting. So
[1:08:27] Speaker 2: there you go. That's how you pulled it off, is
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: just being so repulsive to everybody and repugnant and eric
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: and everyone's like, couldn't be that jerk, So what's our
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: ridiculous takeaway?
[1:08:37] Speaker 3: Harold God, that's the you know, the mediocrity of it,
[1:08:41] Speaker 3: and even just below that, m I I'm I don't know.
[1:08:48] Speaker 3: I think about how terrified I'd be if I was,
[1:08:51] Speaker 3: for some reason in his position and this idea that
[1:08:55] Speaker 3: like I'm just going to continue to do my thing,
[1:08:57] Speaker 3: and I can't believe that they had a many opportunities
[1:09:01] Speaker 3: to at the very least get rid of them.
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
[1:09:04] Speaker 3: And then it's just some I feel like there are
[1:09:08] Speaker 3: a lot of people in this world who get passes
[1:09:11] Speaker 3: like that, oh yeah, And I don't feel like I'm
[1:09:14] Speaker 3: that person. I feel like I'm'm constantly like worried that
[1:09:17] Speaker 3: I'm going to like lose my job or that somebody's
[1:09:20] Speaker 3: gonna fall apart or people will hate me. And I
[1:09:23] Speaker 3: don't know what that's like to walk through life with
[1:09:25] Speaker 3: that like pig confidence totally.
[1:09:28] Speaker 2: I mean, like all of the facts are telling you, yeah, yeah,
[1:09:31] Speaker 2: I'm not going to be suspicious of him. He's a geek,
[1:09:34] Speaker 2: he's annoying. Yeah, I mean like so ultimately is his
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: identity as an annoying, arrogant nerd who really really kind
[1:09:41] Speaker 2: of helped push people away from the obvious trip. So uh,
[1:09:46] Speaker 2: I guess that's my ridiculous take around. I claim that one.
[1:09:49] Speaker 2: So you in the mood for a talkback, Elizabeth, I
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: am excellent producer, D Can you favor us with one?
[1:10:03] Speaker 2: I went cheat because I just want to say thank
[1:10:09] Speaker 2: you for giving me smiling and laughing even after this
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: previous day.
[1:10:18] Speaker 4: We're a hacker deleted everything and walked me out of
[1:10:25] Speaker 4: all my computers.
[1:10:27] Speaker 2: And my phone. So thank sorry, brother from from the
[1:10:30] Speaker 2: bom of my heart. Oh honey, we're giving you the
[1:10:34] Speaker 2: biggest hug of the weekend. That's the worst, oh man,
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: I can hear in your voice. Yeah, that is just terrible.
[1:10:44] Speaker 3: I'm really hoping that you were able to gather some
[1:10:47] Speaker 3: stuff and then bring, you know, rebuild. But I'm so
[1:10:52] Speaker 3: sorry to hear that.
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, I meane gld that we could be there in
[1:10:57] Speaker 2: any possible way to help alleviate and lift. Yes, you
[1:11:01] Speaker 2: know you didn't you didn't mess up. That was that
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: was that was just a tragedy that befel you right exactly,
[1:11:07] Speaker 2: so uh, I'm sorry to hear that.
[1:11:09] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:11:11] Speaker 2: Well, as you can always find us online Ridiculous Crime,
[1:11:14] Speaker 2: Blue Sky Instagram. We have a account Ridiculous Crime Pod
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: on YouTube that's po d pod like a whale pod.
[1:11:21] Speaker 2: We have a website, Ridiculous Crime dot com and uh
[1:11:25] Speaker 2: we obviously love your hearing your talkbacks. We'd like to
[1:11:28] Speaker 2: be there for you guys, so please give us a
[1:11:31] Speaker 2: go to the iHeart app download leave a talkback. Maybe
[1:11:34] Speaker 2: you'll hear your voice here. We'd love to hear it
[1:11:36] Speaker 2: in good in bad weather.
[1:11:38] Speaker 3: We hear your voices.
[1:11:39] Speaker 2: Hang in there, y'all own email us if you want
[1:11:41] Speaker 2: at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. As always, thank
[1:11:44] Speaker 2: you for listening and we will catch you next crime.
[1:11:53] Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaron Brunette,
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: produced and edited by our man in Amsterdam, Dave Kustin,
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: and starring Annalys Rucker as Judith. Research is by The
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: M and Q to R, James Bond, Marissa Brown and
[1:12:06] Speaker 2: Jabari Davis. Our theme song is by our house band,
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: The Falcon and The No Man aka Thomas Lee and
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: Travis Dutt. The host wardrobe provided by bonton You, five
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: hundred guest hair, makeup by Sparkleshark and mister Andre. Executive
[1:12:21] Speaker 2: producers are the co inventors of the Super Secret Dakota Ring,
[1:12:25] Speaker 2: Ben Bolan and Nol Brown. Why Say It One More Times?
[1:12:38] Speaker 1: Cry Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.
[1:12:42] Speaker 1: My heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
[1:12:46] Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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