# The Life, Death, and Afterlife of the Outlaw Elmer McCurdy

An episode of [Ridiculous Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1608230191), 20 Oct 2026, 1 h 11 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/0b4bcc39-7ba2-453f-aaac-ae510011dd80/87d48a13-e88d-43d3-900d-b4e8016ba3b6/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=3a4c50f5-ff69-4807-aa26-ae510011dd8e

Elmer McCurdy came of age at the end of the Old West, and as it vanished he tried to grab at that outlaw life while it was still a real thing. Trouble was, he was not good at being a bad man. In death, he became an avatar and totem of the fast disappearing Wild West. There he remained, until one day the story of an astronaut and test pilot freed him from his bizarre afterlife. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:03] Speaker 2: Elizabeth Dutton.
[0:04] Speaker 3: Zarin Bennett.
[0:05] Speaker 2: I like that sweater.
[0:07] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[0:07] Speaker 2: You look really autumnal. You getting into the season?
[0:10] Speaker 3: I look like I'm in the Special Forces. It's that green.
[0:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, the British Special Forces.
[0:14] Speaker 3: It's the same color as my eyes.
[0:16] Speaker 2: Oh, is it?
[0:16] Speaker 3: It is.
[0:17] Speaker 2: Oh, look at you.
[0:17] Speaker 3: That's how it's camouflaged.
[0:19] Speaker 2: There you go.
[0:20] Speaker 3: Can't see me. I can't see anything.
[0:22] Speaker 2: I got a question for you, Secret Ranger Dutton.
[0:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[0:26] Speaker 2: Do you know what's ridiculous? Oh, Burnett.
[0:30] Speaker 3: You are so in for it.
[0:31] Speaker 2: I'm in for it.
[0:32] Speaker 3: All right. So, you know, one of, I think, I
[0:35] Speaker 3: told Terry, we need a chart in headquarters that shows
[0:39] Speaker 3: like the most number of references, like the most referrals
[0:43] Speaker 3: we have for a mashup.
[0:45] Speaker 2: You two have fun with that.
[0:46] Speaker 3: This has got to be up at the top of
[0:48] Speaker 3: the list. This is way up there.
[0:50] Speaker 2: Oh, no. And. What are you reaching for?
[0:55] Speaker 3: It's a little something called Spooky Ranch.
[0:57] Speaker 2: Oh, God. Yeah.
[0:59] Speaker 3: So people were telling us Hidden Valley Ranch has this product,
[1:02] Speaker 3: Spooky Ranch. It's limited edition. And it is supposed to
[1:07] Speaker 3: be black ranch. You like black cowboys?
[1:10] Speaker 2: Black ranch.
[1:11] Speaker 3: And they color it with cocoa and beets. I shouldn't
[1:18] Speaker 3: have told you the beets because now you won't want
[1:20] Speaker 3: to eat any.
[1:21] Speaker 2: I was going to want to eat some before.
[1:22] Speaker 3: And so it is.
[1:24] Speaker 2: Some of this African-American ranch.
[1:26] Speaker 3: It's more gray.
[1:26] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
[1:27] Speaker 3: It's more gray than anything else, as you can see.
[1:30] Speaker 3: And apparently the bottle glows in the dark. I haven't
[1:32] Speaker 3: tested that.
[1:33] Speaker 2: Really?
[1:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was only available at Walmart.
[1:36] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:36] Speaker 3: So first I wrote to the Hidden Valley Ranch parent company, Clorox.
[1:41] Speaker 2: Wow.
[1:42] Speaker 3: And I said, hey, oh, like you said it was
[1:47] Speaker 3: going to drop this week. And I've been looking online
[1:49] Speaker 3: and it's not there. And I tried to sweet talk.
[1:52] Speaker 3: I'm like, maybe you want to say I didn't ask directly.
[1:55] Speaker 3: I laid the groundwork for them to be gracious and
[1:57] Speaker 3: send me one. No, they're like, check back online later
[1:59] Speaker 3: this week. And I was like, you. So I did.
[2:03] Speaker 3: And it wasn't popping up. And I was getting worried
[2:05] Speaker 3: because like people stop sending the suggestion. And I'm like,
[2:09] Speaker 3: they're going to think I just ignored them off.
[2:11] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[2:11] Speaker 3: So I was looking at— You never do that to
[2:13] Speaker 3: the Root News.
[2:13] Speaker 2: No, no.
[2:14] Speaker 3: So I was looking at the Walmart Plus app that
[2:16] Speaker 3: I downloaded onto my phone.
[2:18] Speaker 2: Dear Lord.
[2:19] Speaker 3: And I searched all the regional Walmarts, and no one
[2:22] Speaker 3: was carrying it. So I sent out the bat signal,
[2:25] Speaker 3: and our intern, Mamas, in the Deep South— Oh, wow.
[2:29] Speaker 3: She found it and went to a Walmart like 40
[2:33] Speaker 3: minutes away from where she lives and had them bring
[2:35] Speaker 3: it out to her car.
[2:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[2:38] Speaker 3: She did pick up and they just handed it to
[2:41] Speaker 3: her like, all right, weirdo. And so anyway, she sent
[2:43] Speaker 3: it to me and it arrived.
[2:46] Speaker 2: It's like, I can't curse your mom for that.
[2:48] Speaker 3: No, no, no. I mean, she's all in.
[2:51] Speaker 2: She is so all in for everything.
[2:55] Speaker 3: And so, yeah, so I'm holding in my hand. So
[2:57] Speaker 3: I was in the canteen here at headquarters and I
[3:01] Speaker 3: opened up the bottle and the interns came running. And
[3:07] Speaker 3: we're like sniffing the air. That does not bode well.
[3:11] Speaker 2: That does not bode well. It just smells like, I
[3:13] Speaker 2: don't know, basically like roadkill.
[3:15] Speaker 3: Like decomp?
[3:15] Speaker 2: Greasy roadkill.
[3:17] Speaker 3: I don't even know. It kind of smells like regular ranch, right?
[3:20] Speaker 3: But they've never done that. I don't know.
[3:21] Speaker 2: Anyway.
[3:23] Speaker 3: So I was going to stop and get you like
[3:25] Speaker 3: chicky tendies, as the kids call them.
[3:27] Speaker 2: Sure.
[3:28] Speaker 3: But then I was like, I don't know where to
[3:29] Speaker 3: get any of that.
[3:29] Speaker 2: I like calling them chicken fingers because that's just wrong
[3:31] Speaker 2: on two levels.
[3:32] Speaker 3: Right.
[3:32] Speaker 2: Right.
[3:33] Speaker 3: So, you don't like the tender? I have an injury
[3:38] Speaker 3: in my tender. Here's a little dish of it. Here,
[3:41] Speaker 3: take it.
[3:42] Speaker 2: No.
[3:42] Speaker 3: No, take it. Go ahead.
[3:45] Speaker 2: Oh, God. That is green gray.
[3:48] Speaker 3: Yeah. And then I don't have chicken tenders for you,
[3:52] Speaker 3: but I have probably the largest carrot I've ever seen
[3:56] Speaker 3: in my life.
[3:58] Speaker 2: I'm not going to say what I think that thing
[3:59] Speaker 2: looks like.
[4:00] Speaker 3: It's the biggest carrot. It's disgusting. So anyway, but don't
[4:04] Speaker 3: eat it into the mic, but eat it. Try it
[4:06] Speaker 3: and tell me what you think. Everybody, he's going to
[4:10] Speaker 3: eat the black ranch. It looks so disgusting on the
[4:14] Speaker 3: end of the carrot.
[4:15] Speaker 2: It looks like something like if you mixed a bunch
[4:17] Speaker 2: of children's paints together, you would get this color.
[4:28] Speaker 3: Oh, that looks like it hurts.
[4:31] Speaker 2: Well, it's sweet enough.
[4:33] Speaker 3: It's sweet? Well, yeah, because it's got cocoa and beets. Yeah.
[4:38] Speaker 2: Anyway.
[4:39] Speaker 3: Oh, God. You're welcome, world. I'm trying to do this
[4:45] Speaker 3: more and more where I bring it on home.
[4:48] Speaker 2: You don't have to.
[4:50] Speaker 3: You know, make you experience it firsthand rather than just
[4:53] Speaker 3: you cringing from me telling about it. You can spit
[4:56] Speaker 3: that out.
[4:56] Speaker 2: If you want. No, the carrot's the best part.
[5:01] Speaker 3: Anyway, I think it would have been really horrible with
[5:06] Speaker 3: fried chicken.
[5:07] Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know about that. At least there would
[5:11] Speaker 2: have been some fried chicken in my mouth.
[5:12] Speaker 3: But as you can see, the interns are like trying
[5:14] Speaker 3: to get to the dish. So there's something not right
[5:18] Speaker 3: about it. The only thing that they act like that
[5:20] Speaker 3: about is chicken jerky and canned pumpkin.
[5:23] Speaker 2: Really?
[5:24] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[5:24] Speaker 2: They don't look like bacon grease or anything like that?
[5:27] Speaker 3: I don't really ever make bacon.
[5:28] Speaker 2: Oh, that's fine.
[5:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure they'd go nuts.
[5:33] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm back.
[5:34] Speaker 3: So, in summation, that was a long one. I apologize,
[5:38] Speaker 3: but I feel it was worth it.
[5:39] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it looks like swamp booze, but luckily it
[5:42] Speaker 2: did not taste like swamp booze.
[5:43] Speaker 3: Spooky ranch.
[5:44] Speaker 2: It mostly tasted like ranch dressing. I have to admit,
[5:47] Speaker 2: there was very little... flavor augmentation other than I think
[5:51] Speaker 2: I could kind of taste the chocolate, you know, but
[5:54] Speaker 2: it's not like chocolate.
[5:55] Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what I plan to do.
[5:57] Speaker 2: It's mostly just like ranch with food coloring. I think
[5:59] Speaker 2: they could have just left it with food coloring.
[6:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, but it's, you know, it's... The carrot was awesome, though.
[6:03] Speaker 2: That was an amazing carrot. I'm telling you. I don't
[6:06] Speaker 2: know where you're buying the carrots, but you got to
[6:07] Speaker 2: share it with me.
[6:08] Speaker 3: Farmer's Market. When the trick-or-treaters come, ding-dong, I'm going to
[6:11] Speaker 3: open the door. Put out your hands, kids.
[6:13] Speaker 2: Pow! Well, it doesn't even.
[6:17] Speaker 3: Have a squirt top. It just opens up. So it's like,
[6:19] Speaker 3: it's more into their hand.
[6:21] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So that's it.
[6:23] Speaker 3: Anyway, that's ridiculous.
[6:25] Speaker 2: The things I do for you.
[6:27] Speaker 3: I know. Well, no, you're not doing it for me.
[6:29] Speaker 2: I was talking to the rude dudes. It's not all
[6:33] Speaker 2: about me.
[6:34] Speaker 3: Every single rude dude. That was for you. I'm going
[6:39] Speaker 3: to need a moment.
[6:41] Speaker 2: All right, Elizabeth, I got one for you.
[6:43] Speaker 3: Okay.
[6:43] Speaker 2: All right. I'm not asking you any more questions.
[6:45] Speaker 3: Oh, darn it.
[6:46] Speaker 2: But imagine that you gain a modest amount of fame
[6:49] Speaker 2: as an outlaw.
[6:50] Speaker 3: Okay. I can imagine that.
[6:52] Speaker 2: Like a century later, practically, or 75 years later. I mean, really,
[6:54] Speaker 2: 66 years, 65 years later.
[6:55] Speaker 1: Okay.
[6:55] Speaker 3: Be precise.
[6:56] Speaker 2: But we'll say basically like a century. Okay. People are
[7:02] Speaker 2: still talking about you. But the only reason folks are
[7:05] Speaker 2: still talking about you is because of the atrocious shape
[7:08] Speaker 2: your body is in.
[7:09] Speaker 1: Oh.
[7:09] Speaker 2: Yes.
[7:10] Speaker 3: Thanks a lot.
[7:11] Speaker 2: Well, no. You're an outlaw. This is Ridiculous Crime, a
[7:36] Speaker 2: podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's
[7:42] Speaker 2: always 99% murder-free and 100% ridiculous. Yes. Elizabeth.
[7:50] Speaker 3: It's Aaron.
[7:51] Speaker 2: I've got a super strange one for you today.
[7:53] Speaker 3: I love strange.
[7:54] Speaker 2: It falls into a very specific genre of our Ridiculous
[7:57] Speaker 2: Crime stories.
[7:58] Speaker 3: Okay.
[7:58] Speaker 2: A genre I'm going to call habeas corpus delecti.
[8:03] Speaker 4: Oh, no.
[8:04] Speaker 5: Oh.
[8:05] Speaker 2: Yes, have the body of the crime. Now, you remember
[8:07] Speaker 2: when I told you about Mr. Roach had and the
[8:10] Speaker 2: theft of Charlie Chaplin's body? Mm-hmm. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Or how
[8:12] Speaker 2: about the attempt to steal Abraham Lincoln's body?
[8:15] Speaker 3: I remember that.
[8:16] Speaker 2: This story joins them as another body crime.
[8:20] Speaker 3: Well, I think what I'm thinking of in my head
[8:22] Speaker 3: right now, as opposed to in my feet... is how
[8:27] Speaker 3: nauseated I got when you told the story of Einstein's brain.
[8:31] Speaker 2: Oh, I forgot about that one because it's only one
[8:33] Speaker 2: body part. Like I literally felt sick. Oh, yeah. No,
[8:35] Speaker 2: that was a rough one.
[8:36] Speaker 3: Like as if someone made me eat Gray Ranch.
[8:40] Speaker 2: Well, see, I'm so clinical it didn't bother me because
[8:41] Speaker 2: it's like a brain in a solution, but you're like
[8:44] Speaker 2: over there picturing it not in a cartoon way for once.
[8:47] Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, right?
[8:48] Speaker 2: Well, this, Elizabeth, this story, before we get to the
[8:51] Speaker 2: body part, Let's meet the man who once called that
[8:54] Speaker 2: body home.
[8:54] Speaker 3: Okay.
[8:55] Speaker 2: His name was Elmer McCurdy, and he was a bad man.
[8:58] Speaker 3: A bad man.
[8:59] Speaker 2: Trouble for Elmer was he was not very good bad man,
[9:02] Speaker 2: as in he was not good at being a bad man. Yeah.
[9:05] Speaker 2: So Elmer McCurdy, he enjoyed a bizarre level of posthumous fame.
[9:09] Speaker 2: For instance, there's a BBC documentary about him. There are
[9:12] Speaker 2: not one but two biographies written about him. There are
[9:15] Speaker 2: multiple poems about him. Okay. There's a Celtic folk band
[9:19] Speaker 2: that wrote a song about him. And in Oklahoma, he's
[9:22] Speaker 2: the star attraction for a dinner theater-like rendition of his
[9:25] Speaker 2: life story that's dubbed a murder mystery weekend. Oh. Yeah. Now,
[9:29] Speaker 2: when you hear murder mystery weekend, you may be thinking, um, Zarin,
[9:32] Speaker 2: this sounds like this might be a 1% exception to
[9:36] Speaker 2: our 99% murder-free guarantee. And to that, I would say, hey, hey, hey, hey,
[9:39] Speaker 2: don't get ahead of the story. We'll get to all
[9:41] Speaker 2: that when we get to all that.
[9:42] Speaker 3: Okay.
[9:42] Speaker 2: Okay. So who is Elmer McCurdy?
[9:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked.
[9:45] Speaker 2: Now, that is a fantastic question, Elizabeth. I am so
[9:48] Speaker 2: glad you asked. Now, he was born in Washington, Maine,
[9:51] Speaker 2: the state of Maine, way back in 1880. His mother
[9:54] Speaker 2: was a single teenager, so he had a rough start
[9:57] Speaker 2: in the 1880s Maine society. In order to help their
[10:01] Speaker 2: nephew out and free him from name-calling and scandal, his
[10:05] Speaker 2: mother's brother adopted the infant, raised him as his own.
[10:09] Speaker 2: But then tragedy struck when Elmer was just 10 years
[10:11] Speaker 2: old and his adoptive father-slash-uncle unexpectedly passed away from tuberculosis.
[10:16] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[10:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, after that, young Elmer, his mother, and his widowed
[10:19] Speaker 2: aunt all moved to Bangor, Maine. Okay. Now, when he
[10:22] Speaker 2: was a teenager, Elmer received another devastating blow when his
[10:26] Speaker 2: mother told him the true story of his parentage. Oh. Yeah,
[10:30] Speaker 2: that his father was not his father, or the man
[10:33] Speaker 2: who he thought of as his father. But instead, her
[10:35] Speaker 2: brother had adopted him to protect the child, yada, yada, yada.
[10:38] Speaker 2: Learning this... meant he was now, in his mind, a
[10:42] Speaker 2: bastard son.
[10:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[10:44] Speaker 2: And young Elmer did what a lot of teenage boys
[10:46] Speaker 2: often do. He acted out. He grew sullen, rebellious. You
[10:50] Speaker 2: get the idea. This led to the teenage boy turning
[10:53] Speaker 2: to the bottle. He became a young drunk. Oh, man. Yeah.
[10:57] Speaker 2: So around that same time, needing some tough love, Elmer
[11:00] Speaker 2: moved in with his grandfather. And he starts trying his
[11:02] Speaker 2: hand at his grandfather's profession. He's going to be a plumber.
[11:05] Speaker 2: And he does this for a while, but then tragedy,
[11:07] Speaker 2: which seemed to shadow young Elmer from his first breaths,
[11:11] Speaker 2: strikes again. His mother dies from an ulcer. His grandfather
[11:14] Speaker 2: follows her to the other side a couple months later.
[11:17] Speaker 2: So now he's just devastated. The two people most loyal
[11:20] Speaker 2: to him, most protective of him, his grandfather's mother gone.
[11:22] Speaker 2: So to put some distance between him and his past,
[11:25] Speaker 2: Young Elmer leaves Maine. He drifts west. Yeah. He finds
[11:28] Speaker 2: work as a miner, but not for gold and silver
[11:31] Speaker 2: or something sexy like that. No, he became a lead
[11:34] Speaker 2: miner and a zinc miner. Really rough industries to be
[11:38] Speaker 2: a miner.
[11:39] Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say so.
[11:40] Speaker 2: So later on, Elmer, he moves west to Kansas. He
[11:42] Speaker 2: tries his hand at being a plumber again. He's like,
[11:44] Speaker 2: you know, I can fit pipes. Yeah. But by then,
[11:47] Speaker 2: his drinking was getting out of hand. So he's a
[11:48] Speaker 2: full-blown alcoholic, the kind who can no longer really hold
[11:51] Speaker 2: down a good job. So in 1905, while still living
[11:55] Speaker 2: in Kansas, he's at this point the ripe old age
[11:57] Speaker 2: of 25.
[11:58] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[11:59] Speaker 2: Elmer gets busted for being drunk in public. It's his
[12:01] Speaker 2: first real scrape with the law.
[12:04] Speaker 3: In my mind, he was already so much older.
[12:06] Speaker 2: Totally. After this, he flees Kansas, moves to Missouri. And
[12:10] Speaker 2: that's where he decides at 27 to join the army.
[12:13] Speaker 2: He's like, maybe they can save what's left of my life.
[12:17] Speaker 2: He enlists, does his training. He gets sent out to
[12:19] Speaker 2: Fort Leavenworth in Kansas, where he's further trained to be
[12:22] Speaker 2: a demolitions expert. He's going to have this important job,
[12:25] Speaker 2: dangerous job. He gets good at handling nitroglycerin, but he
[12:29] Speaker 2: can't find a future in the army. So in 1910,
[12:33] Speaker 2: at age 30, Elmer is honorably discharged. At this point,
[12:36] Speaker 2: once again, cut loose into the world, uncertain about his future.
[12:39] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy meets up with an old army buddy in
[12:42] Speaker 2: Missouri And he tries his hand at a new occupation. Yeah.
[12:46] Speaker 2: Bank robber.
[12:46] Speaker 3: Hey, why not? You know, at that point, what do
[12:49] Speaker 3: you got to lose?
[12:50] Speaker 2: Really, right? And at the start of his new career,
[12:52] Speaker 2: he is, of course, terrible. So, like, he gets caught, like,
[12:56] Speaker 2: almost as soon as he becomes a bank robber of
[12:58] Speaker 2: the mind. It seems he was on his way to
[13:00] Speaker 2: rob a bank, possibly his first bank ever, when he
[13:03] Speaker 2: and his partner get popped by the police.
[13:05] Speaker 3: Wait, he got busted on the way?
[13:06] Speaker 2: On the way. They're arrested when police discover Elmer has
[13:09] Speaker 2: a curious collection of items on his purse and He's
[13:12] Speaker 2: carrying nitroglycerin, which he'd been obviously trained to use by
[13:16] Speaker 2: the US Army. Right. He also has gunpowder. And they're like, well,
[13:19] Speaker 2: that's curious. And to make his bang go bigger, that's
[13:22] Speaker 2: what the gunpowder is for. And so also the two
[13:24] Speaker 2: men have burglary tools, namely hacksaw blades, some chisels. They've
[13:29] Speaker 2: got sacks for money.
[13:31] Speaker 3: With dollar signs on them.
[13:33] Speaker 2: Trying to please conclude you're a bank robber.
[13:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
[13:36] Speaker 2: Now his case goes before a judge and jury. And
[13:38] Speaker 2: Elmer claims through his lawyer that his stuff may look
[13:41] Speaker 2: like the tools of a bank robber. But actually, these
[13:46] Speaker 2: are the tools for maintaining a machine gun. And the
[13:49] Speaker 2: judge is like, tell me more. And the jury is like, what?
[13:52] Speaker 2: So not just any machine gun, Elizabeth. Elmer claims that
[13:55] Speaker 2: he and his partner are busy inventing a new machine gun.
[14:00] Speaker 2: One that is foot operated because, you know, machine guns,
[14:03] Speaker 2: they get too hot to hold. You know, it's like
[14:06] Speaker 2: if I could just get this where only my feet
[14:07] Speaker 2: had to touch it.
[14:08] Speaker 3: It's like a pipe organ.
[14:09] Speaker 2: No, I'm thinking it's kind of like an early Gatling gun,
[14:11] Speaker 2: but like, you know, where he's made it automatic.
[14:14] Speaker 3: Do you pedal it like a bicycle?
[14:15] Speaker 2: Like an old sewing machine or something. Or like one
[14:17] Speaker 2: of those throw wheels for pottery.
[14:19] Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly.
[14:20] Speaker 2: Now, if you can believe it, the jury goes for this.
[14:24] Speaker 2: So they ruled.
[14:25] Speaker 3: It was a time of wonder and invention.
[14:27] Speaker 2: Exactly. These two men are innocent. Free them. Now, at
[14:31] Speaker 2: this point, it's January of 1911. Elmer has just avoided
[14:34] Speaker 2: a long stretch behind bars. So what does Elmer do
[14:37] Speaker 2: with his stroke of luck? He gets right back to
[14:40] Speaker 2: starting his new career as a bank robber.
[14:42] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[14:43] Speaker 2: And decides first, you know, maybe I should try my
[14:45] Speaker 2: hand at a moving target, like robbing trains. So, as
[14:49] Speaker 2: I said, Elmer was not good at being an outlaw, right? Like,
[14:52] Speaker 2: for one, although the U.S. Army had trained him on
[14:54] Speaker 2: how to blow things up with nitroglycerin, He was apparently
[14:58] Speaker 2: a terrible student because he had this bad habit of
[15:00] Speaker 2: using way too much nitroglycerin and accidentally doing things like
[15:05] Speaker 2: blowing up the safe and thereby destroying all the paper
[15:08] Speaker 2: notes inside.
[15:09] Speaker 3: A little heavy handed.
[15:10] Speaker 2: He's like, how much do you need? I don't know,
[15:12] Speaker 2: like a pound? So Elizabeth, there used to be a
[15:15] Speaker 2: syndicated newspaper column that celebrated the old West days. It
[15:18] Speaker 2: was called Bill Kelly's The West That Was.
[15:20] Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
[15:21] Speaker 2: Now, old Bill Kelly, he covered Elmer McCurdy's crime career.
[15:25] Speaker 2: In 1977, he wrote a two-parter about him, Back to
[15:28] Speaker 2: Back Weeks. I cherry-picked some great moments from Elmer McCurdy's
[15:32] Speaker 2: crime career as told to and by Bill Kelly. He
[15:35] Speaker 2: seemingly knew a lot of the key life details that
[15:37] Speaker 2: other stories had left out, and he was one of
[15:39] Speaker 2: the closest people I could find to him that weren't
[15:41] Speaker 2: immediately contemporaneous news accounts. Sure. So, like, he does things
[15:45] Speaker 2: like he talks about how old Elmer McCurdy had, you know— Nicknames,
[15:49] Speaker 2: crime nicknames. Like he was known as Frank Davidson, a.k.a.
[15:53] Speaker 2: Frank Curls.
[15:55] Speaker 3: Frank Curls.
[15:55] Speaker 2: Right? What a great.
[15:56] Speaker 3: Frankie Curls.
[15:57] Speaker 2: Named a crime, right? Frankie Curls. Yeah. I was like, okay. Anyway,
[16:00] Speaker 2: at the start of his crime career, old Frankie Curls, a.k.a.
[16:02] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy, partners with two brothers, drifters like him, Bud
[16:06] Speaker 2: Mills and David Mills. The three, they meet in a
[16:09] Speaker 2: saloon on the Kansas border. And a decade or so
[16:11] Speaker 2: younger than Elmer, at 20 and 17, the Mills brothers
[16:15] Speaker 2: are impressed by the stories that this 31-year-old Elmer is
[16:18] Speaker 2: spinning at the bar about how he's this badass bank robber.
[16:22] Speaker 2: So they decide to join up with him.
[16:23] Speaker 3: Sure.
[16:24] Speaker 2: So what they don't know is that Elmer McCurdy planned
[16:26] Speaker 2: to partner with these two young wannabe outlaws, rob a
[16:29] Speaker 2: bank or a train, and then once they pulled the job,
[16:32] Speaker 2: They'd go out to celebrate and they'd get drunk and
[16:34] Speaker 2: then Elmer would ditch them and leave them to get
[16:36] Speaker 2: caught by the posse. Smart-ish. That was his plan, right?
[16:39] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[16:39] Speaker 2: As Bill Kelly writes, quote, On this particular day in 1911, Elmer,
[16:43] Speaker 2: who was in a very demanding business requiring energy, daring,
[16:47] Speaker 2: and thought, knew that he had two new fish. He
[16:50] Speaker 2: took them off to one side and asked them, how
[16:52] Speaker 2: would they like to be rich? So naturally, the brothers
[16:56] Speaker 2: are all ears. The three men go into the crime
[16:58] Speaker 2: business together. Back to Bill Kelly. A few days later,
[17:01] Speaker 2: three armed men rode into Chautauqua, Kansas. They cased the
[17:05] Speaker 2: town for several days. mapping out escape routes and whatnot.
[17:08] Speaker 2: Then Elmer told the two recruits that he was ready
[17:11] Speaker 2: to strike. So at this point, the brothers were beside themselves. Like, oh,
[17:14] Speaker 2: we're going to do it. We're about to pull our
[17:16] Speaker 2: first job. Yeah. And as Bill Kelly tells it, it
[17:19] Speaker 2: was inky dark when the three men entered the warehouse.
[17:22] Speaker 2: The two brothers kept a sharp eye out while Elmer
[17:25] Speaker 2: hooked up the dynamite. However, there is a mitigating factor
[17:28] Speaker 2: since all three men are idiots.
[17:30] Speaker 3: Sure, there's that.
[17:31] Speaker 2: Things do not go well. Elizabeth, for one, if you're
[17:34] Speaker 2: pulling a job in the dark of night working with nitroglycerin,
[17:36] Speaker 2: what's one thing you probably wouldn't or would not want
[17:40] Speaker 2: to do?
[17:42] Speaker 3: Smoke a cigarette.
[17:43] Speaker 2: Boom! You win today's no prize. That's exactly what they did.
[17:48] Speaker 2: As Bill Kelly writes, Unfortunately for the outlaws, one of
[17:52] Speaker 2: the brothers lit up a match to light his cigarette,
[17:54] Speaker 2: and it was noticed by the town sheriff, who was
[17:56] Speaker 2: making his nightly rounds. The sheriff went screaming across the
[18:00] Speaker 2: town street, shooting his pistol in the air, heading for
[18:02] Speaker 2: the warehouse. The fuse was lit. Elmer took a look
[18:05] Speaker 2: at the safe, then at the advancing sheriff. It suddenly
[18:08] Speaker 2: occurred to him that some on the earth weren't meant
[18:11] Speaker 2: to die rich.
[18:13] Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
[18:14] Speaker 2: What a great line. Some of the earth weren't meant
[18:16] Speaker 2: to die. Ain't that the truth, brother? Anyway, so what
[18:19] Speaker 2: happens next? Great question, Elizabeth. We know, thanks to Bill Kelly,
[18:23] Speaker 2: Elmer made it out of the back door, mounted up,
[18:26] Speaker 2: and was hustling out of town when the safe blew,
[18:28] Speaker 2: taking half the building with it. Too much nitro again, Elmer.
[18:34] Speaker 3: He just is a vandal at this point.
[18:36] Speaker 2: I've never used nitroglycerin to blow a safe. And I'd
[18:38] Speaker 2: still say that there are better than even odds that
[18:41] Speaker 2: I'd use the right amount compared to Elmer. Just with
[18:43] Speaker 2: no training, skill, practice, nothing. I'd be like, oh, it's
[18:47] Speaker 2: probably the right amount. He's like, no, you need like eight,
[18:49] Speaker 2: nine more times that amount. So once the safe and
[18:51] Speaker 2: half the building are blown up, Elmer does what Elmer
[18:53] Speaker 2: does best. He leaves his new partners behind to get caught.
[18:57] Speaker 2: As Bill Kelly puts it, badly shaken, his two chums
[19:00] Speaker 2: were captured. Elmer galloped off into the solitary canyons of
[19:03] Speaker 2: the Osage Hills of northeastern Oklahoma. There would be another day.
[19:07] Speaker 2: So as I was reading Bill Kelly's retelling of the
[19:11] Speaker 2: Wild West days, I have to say I was thrilled
[19:14] Speaker 2: to hear him write about Indian Territory, right? Yeah. Because
[19:17] Speaker 2: as he did mention, one of my legit fave outlaw
[19:21] Speaker 2: black cowboys is he's referencing like the known outlaws who
[19:24] Speaker 2: haunted Indian Territory in the days just before it became
[19:27] Speaker 2: the state of Oklahoma. Yeah. And as Bill Kelly writes...
[19:31] Speaker 2: It had been the home of Cherokee Bill, Henry Starr,
[19:34] Speaker 2: the Daltons, Doolins, and Bill Cook Gang. It was a raw,
[19:38] Speaker 2: booming camp where Belle Starr herself had been seen often.
[19:41] Speaker 2: This territory was so bad that many of the pigeon-hearted
[19:44] Speaker 2: storekeepers and miners pulled up stakes and moved on. Only
[19:49] Speaker 2: the case-hardened veterans remained Elmer J. McCurdy was one.
[19:53] Speaker 3: Of these Cherokee Bill.
[19:56] Speaker 2: Right? Top billing. Yeah. Anyway.
[19:59] Speaker 3: Deserves it.
[19:59] Speaker 2: This may be overstating things, but Elmer McCurdy was not
[20:02] Speaker 2: on the same level as legendary outlaws like Bell Star
[20:05] Speaker 2: and Cherokee Bill. No. But Elmer was a stubborn hard case,
[20:09] Speaker 2: so he is right about that. Okay. Now that we've
[20:12] Speaker 2: met our crimer of the day and we've gotten a
[20:13] Speaker 2: pretty good sense of him, let's take a little break.
[20:15] Speaker 5: Okay.
[20:16] Speaker 2: And after these messages, we'll get back to the crime
[20:18] Speaker 2: and how Elmer would become famous years, decades later. Huh.
[20:44] Speaker 2: We're back, Elizabeth.
[20:45] Speaker 3: Hey.
[20:46] Speaker 2: You ready to ride back out onto the range with
[20:48] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy?
[20:49] Speaker 3: You know, when you say he's an outlaw, he's just
[20:52] Speaker 3: a vandal. He's not a bank robber.
[20:53] Speaker 2: He hasn't taken anything. So he's about to, though.
[20:58] Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
[20:58] Speaker 2: So after he blew up that half of the building
[21:01] Speaker 2: and barely escaped with his life and yet managed to
[21:03] Speaker 2: ride off and avoid the long arm of the law,
[21:05] Speaker 2: while leaving behind his two young partners to get busted,
[21:09] Speaker 2: what does Elmer do next? Great question, Elizabeth. In that
[21:13] Speaker 2: same March of 1911, Elmer flees to the former Indian
[21:17] Speaker 2: territory to a town called Lena Pa in Oklahoma. And
[21:21] Speaker 2: in 1911, Oklahoma is still the Wild West. The era
[21:25] Speaker 2: is dying away pretty much as fast as it can,
[21:27] Speaker 2: but the former Indian territory is still lawless and filled
[21:30] Speaker 2: with rootless men who still want to be outlaws. It
[21:33] Speaker 2: had only become Oklahoma like about four years earlier.
[21:35] Speaker 3: Sure.
[21:36] Speaker 2: So thus, that March, Elmer McCurdy finds himself a new crew.
[21:41] Speaker 2: And again, he picks a pair of brothers, Frank and
[21:44] Speaker 2: Lee Jarrett. And together they try to rob the Iron Mountain,
[21:48] Speaker 2: Missouri Pacific train. So it's like a local train. Okay.
[21:51] Speaker 2: Now the story goes, There was a mail train and
[21:54] Speaker 2: it carried a safe that was known to hold about $ 4, 000.
[21:58] Speaker 2: Elmer plans to blow it up and then steal whatever
[22:00] Speaker 2: he doesn't destroy with explosives.
[22:02] Speaker 3: Little bits of paper that are left.
[22:03] Speaker 2: Exactly. Back to Bill Kelly as he tells it. When
[22:07] Speaker 2: the train stopped to take on water, McCurdy stuck a
[22:10] Speaker 2: heavy revolver in the engineer's face and told him to
[22:13] Speaker 2: take it easy. Armed with Winchesters and festooned with cartridge belts,
[22:17] Speaker 2: the two brothers stepped out of the shadows and ordered
[22:19] Speaker 2: the firemen to follow them. So they managed to successfully
[22:24] Speaker 2: commandeer the train. They take it over at gunpoint. Then
[22:26] Speaker 2: they tell the railroad man in charge of the mail
[22:29] Speaker 2: and the armored car of the train to unlock the door.
[22:32] Speaker 2: They'll dynamite it open. I don't know if he'd heard
[22:35] Speaker 2: about Elmer McCurdy's skill level, but that door slid open.
[22:39] Speaker 2: The mail security man, he's standing there with his hands
[22:41] Speaker 2: in the air, right? And after that, the crew prepares
[22:44] Speaker 2: some nitroglycerin and some gunpowder to blow up the safe. So,
[22:48] Speaker 2: of course, being Elmer, he uses way too much and
[22:51] Speaker 2: he ends up blowing up the safe, which burns all
[22:54] Speaker 2: the paper notes inside. However, in this case, there were
[22:58] Speaker 2: silver coins inside the safe that were still salvageable. The
[23:02] Speaker 2: wannabe train robbers, they managed to write off somewhere between
[23:05] Speaker 2: like $ 100 and $ 500 worth of silver coins. That's not bad.
[23:09] Speaker 2: But many of the silver coins had to be left
[23:12] Speaker 2: behind since, thanks to Elmer's nitroglycerin, the coins were permanently
[23:16] Speaker 2: fused to the safe. So the crew escapes with enough
[23:21] Speaker 2: silver to live large and well for a number of months.
[23:24] Speaker 2: But when the silver runs out, it's time to pull
[23:26] Speaker 2: a new job. So in September of 1911, Elmer and
[23:30] Speaker 2: the Jarrett brothers, Frank and Lee, they plan to rob
[23:32] Speaker 2: a bank in Chautauqua, Kansas. Elizabeth, you want to take
[23:36] Speaker 2: one guess what goes wrong for Elmer and his crew?
[23:39] Speaker 3: I have so many guesses. One guess. Does it involve
[23:43] Speaker 3: an explosion?
[23:44] Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. He uses way too much nitroglycerin.
[23:50] Speaker 3: You know what? I'm not even going to question that.
[23:53] Speaker 3: Go ahead.
[23:54] Speaker 2: He was trained for this, and yet he uses nitroglycerin
[23:57] Speaker 2: like he's inventing it. And he hasn't figured out how
[24:00] Speaker 2: much to use.
[24:01] Speaker 3: Well, he's done his training, and okay, this is the
[24:03] Speaker 3: first time I've tried this. What is he, like, eight
[24:05] Speaker 3: deep now of burning everything to a crisp?
[24:09] Speaker 2: I mean, like, titrate.
[24:10] Speaker 3: Down, my man. Like, figure this out.
[24:12] Speaker 2: So keep that thought in mind. September 21st, they're at
[24:16] Speaker 2: the Citizens Bank in Chautauqua working at night. They're using
[24:19] Speaker 2: hammers and chisel to bust through the bank's brick wall,
[24:23] Speaker 2: which they make it through.
[24:24] Speaker 3: They just blow it open, dude.
[24:25] Speaker 2: They're not waking anyone up.
[24:26] Speaker 3: Who cares anymore?
[24:27] Speaker 2: So once they're inside, Elmer prepares some nitro to blow
[24:30] Speaker 2: the bank safe. Wow. Guess he was a little self-conscious
[24:33] Speaker 2: about using too much. So this time he uses too little. Oh, God.
[24:37] Speaker 2: When the fuse is lit, it all goes boom like
[24:39] Speaker 2: he wants. But Elmer, he only used enough nitro to
[24:42] Speaker 2: blow the vault door. And so once they get inside,
[24:45] Speaker 2: they find a second safe that also needs to be
[24:47] Speaker 2: blown open. But now they've done a huge explosion. So
[24:49] Speaker 2: everyone's pretty much been woken up for miles around. Right. Now,
[24:53] Speaker 2: I don't know if this was like a vote of
[24:54] Speaker 2: no confidence by his crew or if there was a
[24:56] Speaker 2: legit threat. But one of the Jerry brothers, the lookout,
[24:59] Speaker 2: is like, to hell with this. Yeah. And he hops
[25:02] Speaker 2: on a horse and rides off. That leaves Elmer and
[25:04] Speaker 2: the other brother to gather up what money is lying around.
[25:07] Speaker 2: It is not a big score. They pocket roughly $ 150
[25:10] Speaker 2: worth of silver coins.
[25:13] Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
[25:13] Speaker 2: They do manage to escape the town and the posse
[25:16] Speaker 2: with their stolen loot. And Elmer rides out to a
[25:18] Speaker 2: friend's house who lives nearby where he usually likes to
[25:21] Speaker 2: lay low and drink himself silly. So I guess that
[25:24] Speaker 2: $ 150 in silver coins didn't last long between the three
[25:29] Speaker 2: men splitting it up. Because two weeks later, in early October,
[25:32] Speaker 2: Elmer plans to lead a new train robbery.
[25:34] Speaker 3: He's like the Goldilocks of experience. Where it's like too much,
[25:39] Speaker 3: too little now.
[25:40] Speaker 2: Is he ever going to get it right?
[25:42] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[25:42] Speaker 2: So the plan is to hit the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad while
[25:46] Speaker 2: it's passing through Oklahoma. So they hear that the train
[25:49] Speaker 2: is carrying a huge score, royalty payments for the Osage
[25:53] Speaker 2: Nation worth about $ 400, 000. Right, right, right. Now, accounting for inflation,
[25:58] Speaker 2: that same sum would be about $ 13. 5 million today.
[26:00] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[26:02] Speaker 5: Wow.
[26:03] Speaker 2: So you can hear why they wanted to hit this train.
[26:04] Speaker 3: Sure, sure.
[26:05] Speaker 2: So we're talking major, major score. Yeah. But since it's
[26:08] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy, mistakes were made. Oh, Elmer. You see, instead
[26:11] Speaker 2: of robbing the money train, they instead stopped a passenger train.
[26:15] Speaker 2: They stopped the wrong train.
[26:16] Speaker 3: Wait, they got the wrong train.
[26:17] Speaker 2: Oh. And when they realize they've stopped the wrong train,
[26:20] Speaker 2: the outlaws are like, oh, what are we going to do?
[26:23] Speaker 2: We'll just rob everybody here. So they decide to rob
[26:25] Speaker 2: the passengers to make good with whatever they can get. Elizabeth,
[26:29] Speaker 2: it was a criminal catastrophe.
[26:31] Speaker 3: Oh, no.
[26:31] Speaker 2: As Bill Kelly tells it, the entire take was $ 46
[26:34] Speaker 2: and two jugs of whiskey.
[26:36] Speaker 3: And a pair of underpants.
[26:38] Speaker 2: For real, though, because, like, they left out that they
[26:41] Speaker 2: also managed to get a warm coat, the conductor's pocket watch,
[26:46] Speaker 2: a revolver. They just taken, like, what do you got?
[26:49] Speaker 2: I like that coat. Is that a shiny gold watch?
[26:53] Speaker 2: Is that a marble? So as one newspaper described their haul,
[26:56] Speaker 2: it had to be, quote, one of the smallest in
[26:58] Speaker 2: the history of train robbery ever. So anyway, once they
[27:02] Speaker 2: grabbed their loot, Elmer and the Jarrett brothers decided to
[27:04] Speaker 2: split up and go their own ways. These guys were like,
[27:06] Speaker 2: we're having enough with Elmer. So they split their loot.
[27:09] Speaker 2: The brothers take the $ 46. Alcoholic Elmer's like, I'll take
[27:13] Speaker 2: the two jugs of whiskey. And I don't know who
[27:16] Speaker 2: got the warm coat and the conductive pocket watch. Meanwhile,
[27:19] Speaker 2: a posse is formed. They start to give chase to
[27:21] Speaker 2: get back that $ 46 and the two jugs of whiskey.
[27:25] Speaker 2: But since Elmer and the Jarrett brothers split up, the
[27:27] Speaker 2: posse can't chase them all, so they decide, let's get
[27:29] Speaker 2: the ringleader, Elmer. Yeah. So the posse's made up of
[27:32] Speaker 2: local men, ones who are not that into catching Elmer,
[27:35] Speaker 2: as Bill Kelly tells it. Under the lowering Oklahoma sky,
[27:39] Speaker 2: as the night took giant steps across the foothills, the
[27:42] Speaker 2: posse made camp after a long chase and talked it over.
[27:46] Speaker 2: They had families and ranches to attend to, and the
[27:49] Speaker 2: $ 400 reward on Elmer's head really wasn't worth all this effort.
[27:55] Speaker 2: So only two men decide to stick it out. They're
[27:57] Speaker 2: not going to get fully reimbursed. Yeah, they're like, do
[28:00] Speaker 2: we have receipts? Is anyone keeping receipts? So Dick Wallace
[28:03] Speaker 2: and Sheriff Bob, a.k.a. Tough Bob Fenton. Tough Bob. Yeah,
[28:07] Speaker 2: they were like, we're going to stick it out. So
[28:09] Speaker 2: like basically the sheriff who called the posse together and
[28:12] Speaker 2: like one dude are like, okay, let's keep it on. Yeah.
[28:15] Speaker 2: So they're somewhat familiar with Elmer McCurdy at this point.
[28:18] Speaker 2: And so they reason that armed with two jugs of whiskey,
[28:21] Speaker 2: he'll likely go somewhere to hole up and get pastored.
[28:24] Speaker 2: powerfully drunk.
[28:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[28:25] Speaker 2: And they are correct. So Elmer rides out to that
[28:29] Speaker 2: same friend's ranch he went to before to lay low.
[28:31] Speaker 2: And at the time, Elmer is in poor health. At
[28:34] Speaker 2: this point, he has tuberculosis from working in the lead
[28:37] Speaker 2: and zinc mines. Right. He's also battling a case of pneumonia.
[28:40] Speaker 2: As well, his gut is bothering him since he also
[28:43] Speaker 2: has trichinosis from eating bad pork. Oh, God. He's like
[28:47] Speaker 2: a walking 19th century medical textbook.
[28:49] Speaker 3: Well, and then you think about, like, does he have
[28:51] Speaker 3: lead poisoning affecting his judgment?
[28:53] Speaker 2: I think his judgment has been weird.
[28:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's been tickled.
[28:55] Speaker 2: I think his childhood ruined that. He's been tickled for
[28:57] Speaker 2: some time, too. Yeah, so rather than rest up and
[29:00] Speaker 2: hide out, Elmer shares his good fortune with some of
[29:02] Speaker 2: the ranch hands at his friend's place, and he indeed
[29:05] Speaker 2: gets blacked out drunk. Eventually, he passes out in the
[29:08] Speaker 2: hayloft at sunrise.
[29:10] Speaker 3: Okay.
[29:10] Speaker 2: So on October 7th, Dick Wallace, Bob, Tough Bob Fenton,
[29:14] Speaker 2: and his brother, Stringer Fenton, who he like calls in
[29:18] Speaker 2: on this.
[29:18] Speaker 3: Tough Bob and Stringer?
[29:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. And so Stringer brings like some like bloodhounds and
[29:21] Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, we're going to find him. They track
[29:23] Speaker 2: Elmer to the ranch where he's holed up. And the bloodhounds,
[29:26] Speaker 2: they track Elmer right to the hayloft. They know he's
[29:29] Speaker 2: right where he is. So the three-man posse waits for
[29:32] Speaker 2: daylight to confront the outlaw. As Bill Kelly recounts it,
[29:35] Speaker 2: all morning they crouched in the mouth of the dugout,
[29:38] Speaker 2: watching the barn, waiting. At daybreak came the call to surrender.
[29:42] Speaker 2: Elmer had never been in such a situation. Pondering on
[29:45] Speaker 2: the twisted strands of the circumstances, he leveled his instrument
[29:49] Speaker 2: of destruction and fired at Bob Fenton. Then he shot
[29:52] Speaker 2: at Stringer. The officers returned his fire, and the battle
[29:55] Speaker 2: raged on for nearly an hour. Now, we do have
[29:58] Speaker 2: a contemporaneous account from Sheriff Bob, a.k.a. Tough Bob Fenton,
[30:02] Speaker 2: from himself, as he told a reporter from the Bartlesville
[30:06] Speaker 2: Daily Examiner newspaper, and I quote, It began just about
[30:10] Speaker 2: 7 o'clock. We were standing around waiting for him to
[30:12] Speaker 2: come out when the first shot was fired at me.
[30:15] Speaker 2: It missed me, and he then turned his attention to
[30:17] Speaker 2: my brother, Stringer Fenton. He shot three times at Stringer,
[30:20] Speaker 2: and when my brother got undercover, he turned his attention
[30:23] Speaker 2: to Dick Wallace. He kept shooting at all of us
[30:25] Speaker 2: for about an hour. We fired back every time we could.
[30:28] Speaker 3: That was a good cop talk.
[30:31] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[30:31] Speaker 3: The suspect was apprehended.
[30:34] Speaker 2: Due to the nature of this shootout, no one knows
[30:36] Speaker 2: who fires the shot that fells Elmore McCurdy, but one
[30:40] Speaker 2: of the Fenton brothers likely did it, either Stringer or
[30:42] Speaker 2: Sheriff Tough Bob.
[30:43] Speaker 3: Probably tough, Bob.
[30:44] Speaker 2: Now, the Tulsa Tribune reported in their October 8th, 1911 story,
[30:49] Speaker 2: the account of brother Stringer Fenton, who was also a
[30:53] Speaker 2: lawman of some repute. And I quote, According to advices
[30:57] Speaker 2: received here last night by the police, Stringer Fenton. state
[31:01] Speaker 2: enforcement officer, best revolver shot in the entire Southwest, the
[31:04] Speaker 2: man who captured Harry Starr, notorious highwayman, and the hero
[31:09] Speaker 2: of many other dangerous conflicts with criminals, shot and killed
[31:12] Speaker 2: Elmer J. McCurdy, the alleged train robber. So it sounds
[31:15] Speaker 2: to me like old Sheriff Tough Bob didn't want to
[31:17] Speaker 2: give his brother credit when he said no one knows
[31:20] Speaker 2: who fired the fatal shot.
[31:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think then Stringer's like, let me give you,
[31:24] Speaker 3: have you heard of me? I'm kind of the best
[31:25] Speaker 3: shot in the East and the West. And I'm the
[31:29] Speaker 3: one who did it.
[31:30] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[31:30] Speaker 2: And surprising nobody.
[31:32] Speaker 3: Tough Bob's modest, you know, he's tough, but modest. And
[31:36] Speaker 3: he didn't want to brag. He knew he did it.
[31:39] Speaker 2: Now, I know this is very much a 1% exception
[31:42] Speaker 2: to our 99% murder-free guarantee, but since it wasn't particularly graphic,
[31:47] Speaker 2: I thought I could tell this one.
[31:49] Speaker 3: Okay, yeah.
[31:49] Speaker 2: I had to tell that part of the story because
[31:51] Speaker 2: it's absolutely integral to the rest of Elmer McCurdy's story.
[31:55] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[31:55] Speaker 2: While some of the local newspapers were writing about him,
[31:57] Speaker 2: Elmer was never a notorious outlaw, nor was he a
[32:00] Speaker 2: national sensation like Cherokee Bill or Bell Star was. Elmer
[32:04] Speaker 2: was just this inept bank and train robber who could
[32:07] Speaker 2: never figure out how nitroglycerin worked. Now, Elizabeth, you may
[32:10] Speaker 2: be wondering, so wait, then how did Elmer McCurdy get
[32:13] Speaker 2: famous enough that six decades later newspapers were still talking
[32:16] Speaker 2: about him?
[32:17] Speaker 3: I am 100% wondering that.
[32:18] Speaker 2: Fantastic question, Elizabeth. Just absolute A-game today.
[32:21] Speaker 3: I know, I'm so sharp.
[32:21] Speaker 2: I'm happy to tell you why there are Irish folk
[32:24] Speaker 2: songs about him in BBC documentaries. And the reason for
[32:28] Speaker 2: his posthumous fame is a simple one. Carnies.
[32:32] Speaker 3: God bless.
[32:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, you see, in the fateful October of 1911, an
[32:35] Speaker 2: Oklahoma undertaker made a decision that would seal the fate
[32:39] Speaker 2: and fame of Elmer McCurdy. Back to Bill Kelly's account.
[32:43] Speaker 2: In the muddled aftermath, they tossed his carcass in a
[32:46] Speaker 2: spring wagon and hauled him back to the undertaker's parlor
[32:49] Speaker 2: where he was embalmed and set out in full view
[32:51] Speaker 2: of hundreds who came to gawk at the dead bad
[32:54] Speaker 2: man of the plains. So this undertaker, who had decided
[32:58] Speaker 2: that since no one was coming forward to claim the
[33:00] Speaker 2: outlaw's corpse, he would use his local fame to make
[33:03] Speaker 2: a little scratch.
[33:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
[33:05] Speaker 2: He embalmed Elmer with this arsenic-based preservative. The Undertaker mummified
[33:10] Speaker 2: the bad man and planned to charge people to take
[33:12] Speaker 2: a gander at the outlaw. So as someone who prepared
[33:15] Speaker 2: the dead for their final viewing, the Undertaker gave Elmer
[33:18] Speaker 2: a clean shave. He propped him up in a sharp suit.
[33:22] Speaker 3: He's like lying there like Lennon.
[33:23] Speaker 2: For real. And he slapped a rifle in his cold,
[33:25] Speaker 2: dead hands. And then he's like, and then he stood
[33:28] Speaker 2: Elmer up in his funeral room there in the back
[33:30] Speaker 2: where if you paid a nickel for admission, he'd pull
[33:32] Speaker 2: back the curtain and you could take an eyeful of
[33:35] Speaker 2: the doomed outlaw.
[33:36] Speaker 3: What a, what a, when you think about what life
[33:39] Speaker 3: was like. In 1911. 1911. And that's, that's like, I
[33:44] Speaker 3: don't want to call it the entertainment, but it was,
[33:45] Speaker 3: there was like a cold- harsh truth to life, that
[33:49] Speaker 3: that's what it was. It was, but not entertainment in
[33:52] Speaker 3: the yay kind of sense.
[33:54] Speaker 2: Well, you want to see a dead body. Exactly.
[33:57] Speaker 3: Like, was anyone at the table where the dad's like,
[34:00] Speaker 3: all right, who wants to go into town and look
[34:02] Speaker 3: at the dead guy?
[34:02] Speaker 2: Well, also, you have to mean, as you probably, I think,
[34:05] Speaker 2: Definitely do. Well, no, people were much more familiar with
[34:08] Speaker 2: death as a part of life. Both being as like,
[34:10] Speaker 2: you know, agricultural farm people where you have to like
[34:13] Speaker 2: kill the animals you're eating often or tending or shooting
[34:15] Speaker 2: away like wolves and coyotes or whatnot.
[34:17] Speaker 3: But you had people dying in the home?
[34:18] Speaker 2: You had people dying and then they get put on
[34:20] Speaker 2: the table again for like two, three days.
[34:23] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[34:23] Speaker 2: So this was common for people to be born and
[34:25] Speaker 2: to die at home. Right.
[34:27] Speaker 3: But I mean, like the dad's like, you want to
[34:28] Speaker 3: go see a dead body? Yay! The kids are like,
[34:31] Speaker 3: let's go! Exactly.
[34:33] Speaker 2: So this undertaker, who, by the way, was also a
[34:35] Speaker 2: local judge, he hung us.
[34:37] Speaker 3: You know, you got to double duty it. It's the
[34:38] Speaker 3: hustle culture.
[34:39] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[34:40] Speaker 3: Of the American West.
[34:41] Speaker 2: So he hangs this sign that reads, the bandit who
[34:45] Speaker 2: wouldn't give up. And he also billed him as the
[34:47] Speaker 2: Oklahoma outlaw and the embalmed bandit. I don't know if
[34:51] Speaker 2: it's like signs as you approach the house.
[34:53] Speaker 3: That's what I imagined it to be.
[34:55] Speaker 2: So seeing this potential to make a small fortune with
[34:57] Speaker 2: a dead outlaw's mummified body, a number of carnies start
[35:01] Speaker 2: to come around the funeral home and they start making
[35:03] Speaker 2: offers like how much for the dead guy.
[35:05] Speaker 3: Right.
[35:06] Speaker 2: They want to turn him into a roadside attraction or
[35:08] Speaker 2: like a feature exhibit for their sideshow. But the undertaker
[35:12] Speaker 2: says like, you know, I'm a local judge. I got
[35:13] Speaker 2: to do things right. He says he won't sell his
[35:15] Speaker 2: money-making modified outlaw until he earned the $ 400 reward that
[35:20] Speaker 2: had been promised or until next of kin came to
[35:24] Speaker 2: claim Elmer.
[35:24] Speaker 3: Oh, there's that too.
[35:25] Speaker 2: Whichever one came first. Yeah. Five years later in 1916,
[35:31] Speaker 2: two men finally arrived at the funeral home saying that
[35:34] Speaker 2: they'd heard their kin was on display there. They claim
[35:37] Speaker 2: that they plan to take their kin out west to
[35:39] Speaker 2: San Francisco where he can be buried in a family plot. Naturally,
[35:42] Speaker 2: this is all a lie. Since Elmer McCurdy was not
[35:45] Speaker 2: from San Francisco, he was from the other side of
[35:48] Speaker 2: the country from Maine. He had no family left to
[35:51] Speaker 2: claim him.
[35:51] Speaker 3: Are these carnies?
[35:52] Speaker 2: As Bill Kelly tells it, finally, two drifters from California
[35:56] Speaker 2: decided to have a fling at it. They entered the
[35:58] Speaker 2: small town on a drizzly, overcast day with a team
[36:01] Speaker 2: of horses and a wagon. Grief-stricken, they cried and claimed
[36:05] Speaker 2: Elmer was their long-lost brother and begged that he be
[36:09] Speaker 2: taken back to his homeland and be buried in the
[36:11] Speaker 2: family plot.
[36:12] Speaker 3: But here's my question. Why did it take them five
[36:14] Speaker 3: years to figure this out? I would imagine that most
[36:17] Speaker 3: of them, they're savvy, them carnies.
[36:18] Speaker 2: He's an earner for five years straight.
[36:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, but like, why didn't someone else, like,
[36:23] Speaker 3: Get turned down, go outside, put on a wig, and
[36:27] Speaker 3: then come back in and be like, Papa?
[36:29] Speaker 2: And then take the body. I don't think people had
[36:31] Speaker 2: thought of that. And also, I mean, at this point,
[36:33] Speaker 2: you have all these dime novels that are making it
[36:35] Speaker 2: really popular.
[36:36] Speaker 3: Am I smarter than a carny?
[36:38] Speaker 2: You are smarter than a carny. And you probably have
[36:40] Speaker 2: more fingers.
[36:41] Speaker 3: It was questionable.
[36:42] Speaker 2: These two men who were brothers, James and Charles Patterson,
[36:46] Speaker 2: turns out they had a traveling carnival. They'd heard about
[36:50] Speaker 2: the mummified bandit, perfect sideshow attraction, and they decided... Let's
[36:54] Speaker 2: pose as his family and we can go make some
[36:56] Speaker 2: easy scratch from this dead man. The judge don't need him. Right.
[36:58] Speaker 2: And we're the professionals here. So as far as investments go,
[37:02] Speaker 2: it's kind of a rather brilliant approach.
[37:04] Speaker 3: Oh, definitely.
[37:05] Speaker 2: One, you don't have to feed him. You don't have
[37:07] Speaker 2: to tend him. Or really even pay attention to Elmer. Yeah,
[37:11] Speaker 2: he's just over there earning. Yeah, exactly. All you got
[37:13] Speaker 2: to do is put a curtain up and be like,
[37:14] Speaker 2: give me your five cents, kid. So, you know, at
[37:17] Speaker 2: this point, the good news for these scammy carnies is
[37:19] Speaker 2: that the judge undertaker goes for it. He hands over
[37:22] Speaker 2: the mummified outlaw to the two drifters believing their story,
[37:26] Speaker 2: and he wishes them safe travels back to San Francisco,
[37:29] Speaker 2: back to Bill Kelly. By morning, the two men, with
[37:32] Speaker 2: Elmer laying in the back of the wagon, struck out
[37:35] Speaker 2: across the lonely wasteland. Exhibiting the body, which brought in
[37:38] Speaker 2: a succession of people, they rolled from state to state,
[37:41] Speaker 2: and Elmer was sold and resold from carny to carny.
[37:45] Speaker 3: No.
[37:46] Speaker 2: And this, Elizabeth, is the story I came here to
[37:48] Speaker 2: tell you today. How a bunch of carnies turned this
[37:52] Speaker 2: failed outlaw into a totem of the disappearing Wild West.
[37:57] Speaker 2: So as Bill Kelly sums it up well, as a crook,
[38:00] Speaker 2: Elmer had been pretty much a flop, but his long,
[38:02] Speaker 2: colorful career was just beginning.
[38:06] Speaker 3: Amazing.
[38:06] Speaker 2: So rather than take him to San Francisco, as promised,
[38:09] Speaker 2: the Pattersons take Elmer's mummified body to Arkansas City, Kansas,
[38:13] Speaker 2: where they exhibit him as the outlaw who would never
[38:16] Speaker 2: be captured alive. And so he's now the property of
[38:19] Speaker 2: the Great Patterson Carnival Shows. And they hold on to
[38:22] Speaker 2: him for the next six years. In 1922, they sell
[38:25] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy's mummified body to fellow carny Louis Sonny.
[38:30] Speaker 3: Okay.
[38:30] Speaker 2: Now, Louis Sonny already had a few other Wild West stars,
[38:33] Speaker 2: which he highlights in his traveling exhibitions. He operates what
[38:37] Speaker 2: he dubbed his Museum of Crime.
[38:40] Speaker 5: Oh.
[38:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, which included a wax figure of the legendary outlaw,
[38:43] Speaker 2: Jesse James.
[38:44] Speaker 3: I love wax figures because they're usually so bad.
[38:46] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You would have loved this. It was a
[38:48] Speaker 2: wax figure of the outlaw, Bill Doolin. And now he
[38:52] Speaker 2: adds to that menagerie the actual mummified bandit, Elmer McCurdy.
[38:56] Speaker 2: This is a real article right here. So by virtue
[38:59] Speaker 2: of association with true bad men of the former Indian territory, a.k.a.
[39:03] Speaker 2: the true Wild West, Elmer McCurdy gets elevated to being
[39:07] Speaker 2: treated as a legit outlaw and not the failed bank
[39:10] Speaker 2: robber and train robber that I told you about. No
[39:12] Speaker 2: one mentions that he could never seem to use the
[39:14] Speaker 2: right amount of nitroglycerin. No, and instead they treat him
[39:18] Speaker 2: like this black-hatted outlaw of the fast-disappearing Wild West.
[39:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not going to be too close to the truth.
[39:25] Speaker 3: They've got to tell a good story.
[39:26] Speaker 2: Totally.
[39:27] Speaker 3: They're carnies.
[39:27] Speaker 2: Why let a fact in the matter of a good story?
[39:29] Speaker 4: That's right.
[39:30] Speaker 2: At this point, things start to get murky. Mostly what
[39:32] Speaker 2: we have are anecdotal reports. For instance, Lorne McCarger of
[39:37] Speaker 2: Prince George, British Columbia, Canada, would later write about how
[39:40] Speaker 2: he came across the mummified body of Elmer McCurdy, and
[39:44] Speaker 2: I quote, Back in the 1920s at my hometown of
[39:47] Speaker 2: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, Ringling Brothers, Barnum & Bailey Circus, or
[39:52] Speaker 2: it could have been either one after they split, were
[39:54] Speaker 2: fulfilling an engagement there. In one of the sideshow tents,
[39:57] Speaker 2: there was a body of the description given and billed
[40:00] Speaker 2: as the Oklahoma Outlaw. Now, I'm pretty sure he means
[40:03] Speaker 2: Louis Sonny's Traveling Museum of Crime.
[40:06] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[40:06] Speaker 2: But it really doesn't matter. Sure. Either way, Lauren McCarger
[40:09] Speaker 2: recalled the sight of Elmer stood up in a pine
[40:11] Speaker 2: box and his skin leathery at this point, also darkened
[40:16] Speaker 2: from age and travel, and curiously dressed now only in trousers.
[40:20] Speaker 2: And impressively, he also remembered the carny spiel to get
[40:23] Speaker 2: customers to pay to see Elmer McCurdy. And I quote,
[40:28] Speaker 2: This is the body of Frankie McCurtis, the Oklahoma outlaw
[40:33] Speaker 2: who in 1911 held up and robbed a Katy train
[40:37] Speaker 2: running between Oklahoma and Kansas, surrounded in a barn by
[40:42] Speaker 2: Sheriff Freeze. After a fight, he was shot in the
[40:45] Speaker 2: right breast, received the bullet wound, and afterwards drank poison.
[40:51] Speaker 2: The body is not petrified, but... Mummified. If it was petrified,
[40:56] Speaker 2: it would be heavy like stone, but it only weighs
[40:59] Speaker 2: 95 pounds. There is $ 1, 000 offered to anyone who can
[41:06] Speaker 2: prove this is not a genuine body. You may bring
[41:10] Speaker 2: your own doctor to examine if you wish. Now, if
[41:14] Speaker 2: there are any questions, I shall be glad to answer them.
[41:17] Speaker 3: Wait, Frankie McCurtis?
[41:19] Speaker 2: He gets so much wrong.
[41:21] Speaker 3: This is like when there's some people who can't get
[41:23] Speaker 3: any names right.
[41:24] Speaker 2: Yes, totally.
[41:25] Speaker 3: He gets the sheriff's name wrong.
[41:26] Speaker 2: My mom does that, yes.
[41:28] Speaker 3: I think everybody's mom does that. Did the guys, did
[41:33] Speaker 3: Elmer smell like Spooky Ranch?
[41:35] Speaker 2: No, that's just me.
[41:36] Speaker 3: Probably.
[41:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, no. What you're smelling, is it emanating from my body?
[41:39] Speaker 2: Like I've been mummified with Spooky Ranch? But Elizabeth, how
[41:43] Speaker 2: bleak is this whole spiel when you're inviting people to
[41:45] Speaker 2: bring your own doctor to a carny exhibit to prove
[41:49] Speaker 2: if a body is real or fake? And notice, as
[41:52] Speaker 2: I said, how many details are wrong. But like, as
[41:54] Speaker 2: we've said, you know, carnies are like, look, I'm telling stories.
[41:57] Speaker 2: I ain't telling history here. Now, I would also like
[41:59] Speaker 2: to say you and I often lament how dumb the
[42:01] Speaker 2: world has grown, how dumb people are these days. how
[42:04] Speaker 2: AI cons everyone and everything's a scam, et cetera, et cetera.
[42:09] Speaker 2: But I think this goes to show we have always
[42:12] Speaker 2: been dumb.
[42:13] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no.
[42:14] Speaker 2: Always been eager to be tricked by what we see
[42:16] Speaker 2: and to be cheated by scammers who offer nothing more
[42:19] Speaker 2: than some base titillation. This is who we are as people.
[42:23] Speaker 3: But now I feel like people wear dumb as a
[42:25] Speaker 3: badge of honor.
[42:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there is that. They're a little bit more proud.
[42:29] Speaker 2: A little more proud to be dumb. Yeah. Anyway, where
[42:31] Speaker 2: was I? Okay, right. Back to Louis Sonny. In 1949,
[42:35] Speaker 2: the career carny passes away, and with him goes his
[42:38] Speaker 2: mummified outlaw exhibit. Elmer McCurdy gets thrown into a storage
[42:43] Speaker 2: unit in Los Angeles, and there he stays. Until 1964. Oh, God. Yeah,
[42:50] Speaker 2: basically 15 years he's hanging out in the storage unit. Now,
[42:52] Speaker 2: when Louis Sonny's son, who had inherited the mummified outlaw,
[42:57] Speaker 2: he figures out a modern way to make some money
[42:59] Speaker 2: off of his body. He rents the body out as
[43:02] Speaker 2: a prop to the director of the 1967 movie She-Freak.
[43:07] Speaker 3: She freak?
[43:08] Speaker 2: Like She-Hulk, but She-Freak.
[43:10] Speaker 3: Sure, but yeah, She-Freak.
[43:11] Speaker 2: Now, Elizabeth, if you're wondering, Zarin, what is She-Freak about?
[43:15] Speaker 3: I have to know.
[43:16] Speaker 2: I've got you covered, sister.
[43:17] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[43:18] Speaker 2: As Wikipedia helpfully explains, and I quote... Jade Cochran is
[43:23] Speaker 2: an incredulous, cynical waitress who works at a run-down cafe.
[43:27] Speaker 2: Determined to escape her lowly life and earn extra money,
[43:29] Speaker 2: she agrees to take a second job serving meals to
[43:32] Speaker 2: the workers of a traveling carnival sideshow that has arrived
[43:35] Speaker 2: in town. She soon makes friends with Pat, a stripper,
[43:38] Speaker 2: and Steve St. John, the owner of the carnival and
[43:41] Speaker 2: overseer of the freak show exhibit.
[43:44] Speaker 3: Now, if you think that's... But I'm sold already.
[43:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, if you think that sounds awesome, boy, do I
[43:47] Speaker 2: have a treat for you. There's more.
[43:48] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[43:49] Speaker 2: Allured by Steve's wealth, Jade sets her intent on romancing
[43:52] Speaker 2: and marrying him for his money. The freak show exhibitor.
[43:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, she's a discontented waitress.
[43:58] Speaker 2: Jade manages to woo Steve and the two eventually marry. Though,
[44:01] Speaker 2: Jade continues to carry on an affair with Blackie Fleming,
[44:04] Speaker 2: a gruff ride operator at the carnival. Steve soon confronts
[44:08] Speaker 2: Blackie about the tryst and the two get into a
[44:11] Speaker 2: violent tussle in which Blackie stabs Steve to death. Blackie
[44:15] Speaker 2: is convicted of Steve's murder and Jade happily inherits Steve's assets,
[44:19] Speaker 2: including the carnival. So you think like, well, that's kind
[44:22] Speaker 2: of a terrible ending for a movie. It's not the
[44:24] Speaker 2: end of the movie, Elizabeth.
[44:25] Speaker 3: Okay.
[44:26] Speaker 2: Because now that she's the carny odor, how does this
[44:28] Speaker 2: change Jade? I'm so glad you asked. Jade begins abusing
[44:33] Speaker 2: her newfound power as the owner of the carnival and
[44:35] Speaker 2: fires Shorty, a dwarf in the freak show, who originally
[44:39] Speaker 2: informed Steve of Jade's indiscretion with Blackie. In retaliation, Shorty
[44:44] Speaker 2: and the other carnival freaks band together and corner Jade
[44:48] Speaker 2: at the carnival, viciously attacking her. Sometime later, Jade, grossly
[44:53] Speaker 2: mutilated and without legs, is placed on exhibit in the
[44:56] Speaker 2: carnival's freak show as the Snake Woman. Now that's how
[45:00] Speaker 2: you end the movie. Oh, my.
[45:02] Speaker 3: Whatever happened to Pat the stripper?
[45:04] Speaker 2: You never find out what happened to her. It's an
[45:08] Speaker 2: interesting turnabout.
[45:09] Speaker 3: It just keeps growing. All right, we have to watch that.
[45:13] Speaker 2: Jade becomes an exhibit in the carnival that she wanted
[45:17] Speaker 2: to own. Essentially, she experiences Elmer McCurdy's haunted fate. And
[45:22] Speaker 2: by the way, Elmer does get credited in the film
[45:25] Speaker 2: as Elmer McCurdy.
[45:26] Speaker 3: Oh, they got it right.
[45:27] Speaker 2: You gotta get his SAG card. So he plays the
[45:30] Speaker 2: role of movie prop.
[45:33] Speaker 3: Aw.
[45:33] Speaker 2: Yes. So, okay, that's enough for now. Let's take another
[45:37] Speaker 2: little break. And after these messages, we'll see where this
[45:39] Speaker 2: truly strange tale goes next.
[45:40] Speaker 3: Oh, God, I cannot wait. I cannot wait.
[46:02] Speaker 2: Elizabeth. Saren. How are you enjoying this twisting saga?
[46:06] Speaker 3: I am so desperate to watch She-Freak. And I'm just,
[46:11] Speaker 3: it's everything I can do to not be on my
[46:14] Speaker 3: phone right now.
[46:15] Speaker 2: Do you know the original Freaks?
[46:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
[46:18] Speaker 2: I think She-Freak is like an exploitation era version of
[46:22] Speaker 2: the 1930s Freaks.
[46:24] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[46:24] Speaker 2: Because it cues pretty closely to a lot of the
[46:26] Speaker 2: elements of that story. Do we have it? One of us,
[46:29] Speaker 2: one of us. Exactly.
[46:30] Speaker 3: Do you know who, were there any luminaries in this? No,
[46:34] Speaker 3: not even yet. It's like early Vanessa Redgrave.
[46:36] Speaker 2: No, it wasn't like an Ed Wood movie where you
[46:38] Speaker 2: got a couple aging horror film people who were in there.
[46:40] Speaker 2: Jim J.
[46:41] Speaker 3: Bullock?
[46:41] Speaker 2: No, no Jim J. Bullock. Young Jim J. Bullock.
[46:45] Speaker 3: Young Jim J. Bullock as Blackie.
[46:52] Speaker 2: He's getting close with a knife. At this point, Elmer
[46:55] Speaker 2: McCurdy's body is now starring in exploitation horror movies under
[46:58] Speaker 2: his real name. But according to one of his point
[47:01] Speaker 2: in the 1930s, he'd either been sold or was on
[47:04] Speaker 2: loan to a movie producer. That's according to a man
[47:07] Speaker 2: named Dwayne Esper. In 1977, Esper told Bill Kelly what
[47:11] Speaker 2: he could remember from his time as a legal owner
[47:14] Speaker 2: of Elmer McCurdy. As the then 85-year-old Dwayne Esper tells it,
[47:19] Speaker 2: and I quote, Well, yeah. He noticed it dehydrating. I
[47:42] Speaker 2: like that.
[47:43] Speaker 3: Is it like he's going to make some sort of
[47:46] Speaker 3: British dessert and he has to rehydrate.
[47:48] Speaker 2: Him in some brandy? How do we re-plump Elmer? Plump
[47:52] Speaker 2: him back up. Around this time, Dwayne Esper, he used
[47:55] Speaker 2: to drag Elmer McCurdy's body around as a decoration for
[47:58] Speaker 2: movie theater lobbies.
[48:00] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[48:01] Speaker 2: For instance, in 1938, he'd pose Elmer in movie lobbies
[48:04] Speaker 2: to hype a film called Narcotic.
[48:06] Speaker 5: Narcotic.
[48:07] Speaker 2: That's with an exclamation point. Narcotic. Because as you no
[48:10] Speaker 2: doubt guessed, Narcotic was a moral panic movie.
[48:14] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
[48:15] Speaker 2: It features a once promising medical student who descends into
[48:19] Speaker 2: a life of opium dens, seedy brothels, and carnival freak shows.
[48:23] Speaker 3: Sounds awesome.
[48:24] Speaker 2: By this point. I won't tell you the whole plot
[48:25] Speaker 2: of that one. You can kind of guess it.
[48:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, spoiler, hello.
[48:28] Speaker 2: By this point, Elmer McCurdy is no longer being hyped
[48:31] Speaker 2: as an outlaw of the Wild West. Now his mummified
[48:34] Speaker 2: body gets presented as the body of a former drug
[48:36] Speaker 2: addict who turned his back on all things healthy and holy.
[48:40] Speaker 2: And I'm guessing they left him shirtless, dressed only in
[48:43] Speaker 2: his trousers, as some people would take into doing.
[48:45] Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
[48:47] Speaker 2: Oh, boy. Yeah, so there was.
[48:48] Speaker 3: Just reek in a spooky ranch.
[48:50] Speaker 2: Right? There was signage that claimed Elmer died in a gunfight...
[48:54] Speaker 2: which explained the gunshot wound in his chest that's exposed
[48:58] Speaker 2: for everyone to see. But they said that he died
[49:00] Speaker 2: in a gunfight while robbing a drugstore for his next
[49:03] Speaker 2: hit of horse.
[49:04] Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
[49:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. But due to his lifetime of opioid usage, his
[49:08] Speaker 2: body had naturally mummified. And there you go. Don't do drugs, kids.
[49:12] Speaker 3: That's how that works.
[49:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So a little while later in the 1940s,
[49:16] Speaker 2: Elmer's mummified body was featured as part of a sideshow called...
[49:20] Speaker 2: crime doesn't pay and from what i read it must
[49:23] Speaker 2: have been a hell of a freak show because in
[49:26] Speaker 2: this exhibit crime doesn't pay the collection also featured adolf
[49:31] Speaker 2: hitler's limousine Wait. I don't know if they got that
[49:34] Speaker 2: at an auction in Germany. They just went over and like, yo,
[49:37] Speaker 2: what else you got? You got any guns or anything?
[49:39] Speaker 2: We'll take the car.
[49:40] Speaker 3: You know, you know that it was not his limousine.
[49:44] Speaker 2: No, of course not. It was just some German automobile.
[49:46] Speaker 3: They just scratched a swastika on the side and said,
[49:48] Speaker 3: here you go.
[49:49] Speaker 2: It's going the wrong direction.
[49:51] Speaker 3: Put the dead outlaw in there.
[49:53] Speaker 2: So anyway, let's jump forward again, back to the 1970s,
[49:57] Speaker 2: because that's when Elmer McCurdy's body finds itself in yet
[50:00] Speaker 2: another new and strange posthumous role as a bad man
[50:04] Speaker 2: and a scary totem figure. As Bill Kelly writes in 1971,
[50:08] Speaker 2: Dan Sonny, the son of Louis Sonny, he found a
[50:11] Speaker 2: buyer for the doomed mummified outlaw, but it wasn't just
[50:15] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy that he would sell. He sold off his
[50:17] Speaker 2: father's entire collection. He's like, I want all this gone.
[50:21] Speaker 3: This is creeping me out.
[50:22] Speaker 2: He sold it all for $ 10, 000 to Spoonie Singh of
[50:26] Speaker 2: the Singh Museum, which later would become the Hollywood Wax Museum. Yes. Now,
[50:33] Speaker 2: following that sale, when Spoonie Singh inspected what all he
[50:36] Speaker 2: had bought, he checked the condition of Elmer's mummified body.
[50:40] Speaker 2: And he, quote, turned down Elmer because he said he
[50:43] Speaker 2: wasn't lifelike enough.
[50:46] Speaker 3: Well, he's dead.
[50:47] Speaker 2: Yeah. A man whose profession is exhibiting wax figures determines
[50:50] Speaker 2: that Elmer McCurdy's waxen-like figure isn't true to life. Even
[50:55] Speaker 2: in death, Elmer is still disappointing people. So at this point,
[51:00] Speaker 2: Singh loans out the doomed outlaw to two Canadian carnies
[51:03] Speaker 2: who take Elmer up to Mount Rushmore. presumably for some
[51:06] Speaker 2: Wild West exhibit. But apparently he was left out in
[51:09] Speaker 2: the elements because his body gets damaged by a windstorm.
[51:12] Speaker 2: And then they bring him back and Sing is like,
[51:14] Speaker 2: what have you done to my body?
[51:16] Speaker 3: Oh no, my beautiful boy.
[51:17] Speaker 2: So after being loaned out, when he's returned to Sing,
[51:20] Speaker 2: the wax museum proprietor is like, I don't want him anymore.
[51:23] Speaker 2: So he thinks Elmer McCurdy is too grotesque for his crowd.
[51:26] Speaker 2: He's like, I'm a high level wax museum.
[51:29] Speaker 3: Do you think there were like reunions of all the
[51:34] Speaker 3: owners getting together over the years? The former McCurdy owners?
[51:38] Speaker 2: Oh, the former. That's an interesting one.
[51:39] Speaker 3: Yeah, like in a little convention where they meet up.
[51:43] Speaker 2: Somewhere like outside Biloxi.
[51:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, they tell all their stories.
[51:46] Speaker 2: How long did you own Elmer for? Well, I don't
[51:49] Speaker 2: rightly remember. So, Elizabeth, can you guess what Spoonie Singh
[51:54] Speaker 2: did next?
[51:56] Speaker 3: No, I cannot.
[51:57] Speaker 2: Well, I bet you can't. But I'll give you a hint.
[51:59] Speaker 2: He did what everyone else did. He sold him to
[52:01] Speaker 2: a carny.
[52:02] Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
[52:02] Speaker 2: So in this case, he was less carny and more
[52:05] Speaker 2: of a man who makes his money from a new
[52:07] Speaker 2: form of of more modern cheap entertainment. He was an
[52:10] Speaker 2: arcade owner. His name is Ed Liersch, and he was
[52:14] Speaker 2: the co-owner of The Pike, which at the time was
[52:16] Speaker 2: a group of arcades that formed like a shoreline amusement
[52:20] Speaker 2: park in Long Beach, California.
[52:21] Speaker 3: Oh, okay. Now, around what time is this?
[52:24] Speaker 2: The 70s. The 70s.
[52:25] Speaker 3: Oh, okay. We've jumped over.
[52:26] Speaker 5: Mid to early 70s.
[52:27] Speaker 2: So The Pike also had food stands. There were like
[52:31] Speaker 2: carnival-style rides, you know, and for the adult crowd, a
[52:34] Speaker 2: large bathhouse.
[52:36] Speaker 3: Oh.
[52:36] Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
[52:37] Speaker 3: A little hot dog on a stick.
[52:39] Speaker 2: That boardwalk style amusement park becomes Elmer McCurdy's new home. Now, though,
[52:44] Speaker 2: he's no longer a feature attraction like during his days
[52:46] Speaker 2: as an outlaw in the sideshow circuit. Instead, now he's
[52:50] Speaker 2: purely there for background atmosphere. He's suspended from a hangman's gallows,
[52:56] Speaker 2: one that's set back in the dark corner of the arcade,
[52:59] Speaker 2: part of like a spooky themed area. As LA Times
[53:03] Speaker 2: reported in 2011, a light switch enabled quote, teenagers and
[53:07] Speaker 2: young lovers and sailors on shore leave to trigger a, quote,
[53:11] Speaker 2: blue light at a blind corner where they would be
[53:13] Speaker 2: spooked by the glowing body.
[53:15] Speaker 3: I love the examples of who would want to do this.
[53:18] Speaker 2: Yes. Sailors on shore leave, teenagers, young lovers, people looking
[53:21] Speaker 2: for titillation.
[53:22] Speaker 3: Nothing says young love like desecrating a corpse.
[53:27] Speaker 2: So at this point, Elmer McCurdy has had quite a
[53:30] Speaker 2: run as a bad man. From real life outlaw, train robber,
[53:33] Speaker 2: bank robber of the dying Wild West, to mummified sideshow attraction,
[53:38] Speaker 2: to hype attraction as a drug addict victim for a
[53:41] Speaker 2: moral panic exploitation movies, to accredited role as a movie prop,
[53:46] Speaker 2: to finally a cheesy jump scare for horny teens and
[53:49] Speaker 2: sailors on shore leave at a boardwalk arcade. Now, Elizabeth,
[53:53] Speaker 2: his long life after death is far from over. Oh, no.
[53:56] Speaker 2: Because believe it or not, he has at least one
[53:58] Speaker 2: more good chapter to go. He has yet to become
[54:01] Speaker 2: a featured player on a TV show. Oh. The man
[54:04] Speaker 2: whose body is used by others for far longer than
[54:07] Speaker 2: he ever inhabited it has one more irony to endure.
[54:10] Speaker 3: Oh, no.
[54:11] Speaker 2: It comes in the form of a TV show that
[54:12] Speaker 2: also features a man whose body gets used by others.
[54:16] Speaker 2: A man who had his arm and both legs and
[54:18] Speaker 2: other major body parts replaced with bionic parts.
[54:22] Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
[54:22] Speaker 2: I think you know where I'm going with this.
[54:24] Speaker 3: I 100% do. But rather than me confirm.
[54:25] Speaker 2: Or deny your guesses, Elizabeth, close your eyes.
[54:28] Speaker 3: Oh, my eyes are closed.
[54:29] Speaker 2: I want you to picture it. It's December 8th, 1976.
[54:39] Speaker 2: At the moment, you are terribly excited because you are
[54:42] Speaker 2: a prop master. You finally landed your first big break.
[54:46] Speaker 2: You're working on a popular TV show. The set is abuzz.
[54:50] Speaker 2: People rush about, readying for the day's shoot. As you
[54:53] Speaker 2: watch all the action, you think about how your friends
[54:55] Speaker 2: and family will finally get to see your work. This
[54:58] Speaker 2: particular hit show is about a character named Colonel Steve Austin,
[55:02] Speaker 2: a former astronaut and test pilot who suffered a catastrophic
[55:06] Speaker 2: crash and had his body rebuilt as the Six Million
[55:10] Speaker 2: Dollar Man. The star, Lee Majors, is the world's first
[55:13] Speaker 2: bionic man. Although you don't really watch TV, even you
[55:17] Speaker 2: know the show's catchphrase from the opening credits, Gentlemen, we
[55:21] Speaker 2: can rebuild him. We have the technology. In 1976, it's
[55:26] Speaker 2: hard to ignore the fame of the $ 6 million man,
[55:29] Speaker 2: what with all of his futuristic bionic body parts. Two
[55:32] Speaker 2: replacement legs, a right arm, and a left bionic eye,
[55:35] Speaker 2: all equipped to perform superhuman feats. I mean, who doesn't
[55:39] Speaker 2: love a show about a bionic secret agent? And then, boom,
[55:42] Speaker 2: you see him in the flesh. Lee Majors walks past
[55:45] Speaker 2: you on the set. You have to stifle a nervous gasp.
[55:49] Speaker 2: Lee Majors looks just like he does on the TV screen.
[55:52] Speaker 2: He gives you a quick smile and a head nod.
[55:55] Speaker 2: just like Steve Austin would. This episode of The Six
[55:58] Speaker 2: Million Dollar Man is called Carnival of Spies. It's about
[56:01] Speaker 2: an East German scientist who fakes a heart attack in
[56:04] Speaker 2: order to elude a scientific conference he's expected to attend.
[56:07] Speaker 2: Once he's in the wind, the East German scientist hides
[56:10] Speaker 2: among the carnies of a traveling carnival. That's where Steve
[56:14] Speaker 2: Austin must also hide out and outsmart the carnies to
[56:17] Speaker 2: find the East German scientist. But then there's the big reveal.
[56:21] Speaker 2: The Boardwalk Carnival is secretly a cover for a ground-to-air
[56:24] Speaker 2: missile the East German scientist plans to use to shoot
[56:27] Speaker 2: down the new B-1 bomber. This is where you come in.
[56:30] Speaker 2: You must give the set the feel of a real
[56:33] Speaker 2: mid-century carnival. The set is the old Laugh in the
[56:36] Speaker 2: Park Funhouse, part of the Pike Boardwalk Amusement Park in
[56:40] Speaker 2: Long Beach. It feels perfect, but it does need some attention.
[56:43] Speaker 2: As you arrange the background for the shoot and move
[56:46] Speaker 2: around decorations, you ask some grips to rearrange some pinball
[56:49] Speaker 2: machines to avoid a glare from the lights. The pinball
[56:52] Speaker 2: machines are heavy. They ding as the grips move them.
[56:55] Speaker 2: As you wait, one of the decorations catches your eye.
[56:58] Speaker 2: It's a mannequin, or it could be a wax figure
[57:01] Speaker 2: of an emaciated man. Either way, it's extra spooky. You
[57:04] Speaker 2: want to make sure it's on camera. As you study
[57:06] Speaker 2: the mannequin, or possibly wax figure, you note there seems
[57:09] Speaker 2: to be a coating of glow-in-the-dark paint that covers the
[57:12] Speaker 2: man's body. What a great touch, you think. You walk
[57:15] Speaker 2: over and tell the lighting department for the show how
[57:17] Speaker 2: you want to highlight this wax man for maximum creepiness.
[57:22] Speaker 2: They agree and say they'll drag over some UV lights
[57:25] Speaker 2: once they find them. Meanwhile, you set up an extension
[57:28] Speaker 2: ladder in order to adjust the man's body to catch
[57:30] Speaker 2: the UV light. When you twist the torso into position,
[57:34] Speaker 2: the arm you're holding breaks. Not only does it break,
[57:37] Speaker 2: it snaps off and it falls to the floor. You
[57:41] Speaker 2: quickly look around to see if anyone's noticed. Luckily, no
[57:44] Speaker 2: one seems to care. Accidents happen on sets. No one
[57:47] Speaker 2: got hurt, so no big deal. But when you look
[57:50] Speaker 2: back at the wax man, you see a human arm
[57:52] Speaker 2: bone sticking out. and the flesh of the arm is
[57:55] Speaker 2: clearly real human flesh, mummified, but real. You realize that's
[58:01] Speaker 2: no mannequin, that's no wax figure, that's a real-life man,
[58:05] Speaker 2: or rather, a real-life dead man. You scream at the
[58:09] Speaker 2: horror of the real bones. Now you have everyone on
[58:13] Speaker 2: set's attention. This is lucky for you because when you
[58:16] Speaker 2: faint and you fall from the ladder, someone is there
[58:18] Speaker 2: to catch you. Your body lands in the arms of
[58:21] Speaker 2: a big, burly teenster. When you come to, you look
[58:24] Speaker 2: up at him. He smiles down at you. He tells
[58:27] Speaker 2: you you're safe. You tell him you just found a
[58:30] Speaker 2: dead body on set. You know that means this shoot
[58:33] Speaker 2: is getting shut down for the day at least. No
[58:36] Speaker 2: doubt about it. So much for your big break. So
[58:40] Speaker 2: there you go, Elizabeth.
[58:40] Speaker 3: I have to recover from that.
[58:43] Speaker 2: That's how Elmer McCurdy gets rediscovered 65 years later after
[58:47] Speaker 2: he was first mummified.
[58:49] Speaker 3: Oh, no.
[58:49] Speaker 2: So after you broke off his arm, someone from the
[58:52] Speaker 2: set called a fire inspector he knew, who then called
[58:54] Speaker 2: a Long Beach detective they knew. a man named Sergeant
[58:57] Speaker 2: Dan Salmon. As Salmon later recalled to journalist Bill Kelly,
[59:02] Speaker 2: at first it appeared like someone had taken a human
[59:05] Speaker 2: skeleton and put leather over it. I thought, well, every
[59:09] Speaker 2: place there is supposed to be a bone joint, there
[59:11] Speaker 2: isn't one in it. So I thought, better check on it.
[59:14] Speaker 2: So I took the arm up to the coroner's office
[59:17] Speaker 2: first and let them examine it. They said, yep, it's
[59:20] Speaker 2: a real arm. So an autopsy gets ordered. The coroner
[59:24] Speaker 2: determines that the body is that of a human male
[59:26] Speaker 2: who died of a gunshot wound to the chest. The
[59:29] Speaker 2: bullet is how they date the death of the mummified
[59:31] Speaker 2: man because it's like a copper jacket bullet.
[59:34] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[59:34] Speaker 2: And as Bill Kelly reported, the first copper jacket bullet
[59:37] Speaker 2: ever made was in 1870 and that they came out
[59:40] Speaker 2: of the Franco-Prussian War. The first ones ever made in
[59:42] Speaker 2: the United States was in 1890. The caliber lodged in
[59:46] Speaker 2: Elmer McCurdy's body came along about 1905. And then old
[59:49] Speaker 2: Bill Kelly, he really lets you know what you're reading
[59:52] Speaker 2: is from 1977 when he concludes that, and I quote,
[59:57] Speaker 2: seemingly it was the last chapter in the dolorous life
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: of Elmer J. McCurdy. And you couldn't blame women's lib
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: for this.
[1:00:05] Speaker 3: Wait, what?
[1:00:06] Speaker 2: That's out of nowhere. Women's lib catching strays out of nowhere.
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: That's out of nowhere. Right? It's just like, whoa, bro, bro.
[1:00:12] Speaker 2: I know it's 1977 and like, you're all fired up
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: about like ERA or like, I can't even think of
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: what would be setting somebody off. But women's lib was like,
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: you would see it on like, on mod, right? So
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: like B. Arthur, so people like him are responding like, Oh,
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: what are the women livers want now? I guess they
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: want to kill a cowboy. I don't even know. I
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: have no idea. Just the strangest thing. I'm reading the
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: story along. You couldn't blame women's lib for this. I'm like, hey,
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: Archie Bunker, settle down. Anyway, while the bullet help investigators
[1:00:43] Speaker 2: to approximate the year of death, they still have no
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: idea who this mummified man is. Then, during the autopsy,
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: they discovered two more clues that help ID him. One
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: is a 1924 penny someone stuck in his mouth.
[1:00:57] Speaker 3: Oh, God.
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: There's also a ticket stub for Louis Sonny's Museum of Crime,
[1:01:03] Speaker 2: also shoved in his mouth. The police contact his son,
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: Dan Sonny, who's able to identify the man as, oh,
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: that's Elmer McCurdy, my dead idol. So that's how in
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: December of 76, Elmer McCurdy becomes headline news across the country.
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: He's again famous as an Old West outlaw. His body
[1:01:21] Speaker 2: discovered on the Six Million Dollar Man, a hit TV
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: show about a guy whose body you get the idea.
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: Everybody has their little runs with it. All these newspaper
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: columnists are talking about it. Syndicated people are writing about it.
[1:01:33] Speaker 2: It becomes a Popular joke of the end of 76. Sure.
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: And he becomes far more famous than he'd ever been
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: in his own time. Wow. Authorities, though, wait for any
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: living relatives to come forward to claim him for burial. Elizabeth,
[1:01:46] Speaker 2: none come.
[1:01:47] Speaker 3: Two guys come from San Francisco.
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: In a VW wagon. So at this point, some funeral directors,
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: they do come forward and they offer to bury McCurdy
[1:01:56] Speaker 2: for free. Yeah. As do some folks from Oklahoma who
[1:01:59] Speaker 2: want to bring the outlaw back to former Indian territory
[1:02:02] Speaker 2: for a proper outlaw's burial. Okay. Now, there are also
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: some strange offers, like a century city restaurateur named Bud Ferrio,
[1:02:10] Speaker 2: who creates 3,000 Elmer McCurdy t-shirts, like, you know, novelty shirts. Yes.
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: On the front, it reads, Elmer McCurdy, 1869 to 1911.
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: And on the back, it reads, Elmer McCurdy, 1911 to 1976. Ha!
[1:02:25] Speaker 3: Cashing in right there.
[1:02:26] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Nothing says trouble like Century City Restaurateur.
[1:02:29] Speaker 3: I know, right there.
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: As soon as I read that, I was like, oh,
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: we're about to get good.
[1:02:32] Speaker 3: That's a money laundering scam. Exactly.
[1:02:35] Speaker 2: The t-shirts. So for Rio, he plans to use McCurdy's
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: body as a lucrative attraction for his restaurants or I
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: don't know what. It's like. tanning salons i have no
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: idea bill kelly reported on what for real had to
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: say about it all then and i quote elmer may
[1:02:50] Speaker 2: become a great landmark for the san francisco bridge or
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: the huntington library part with elmer hell no he's ours
[1:02:57] Speaker 2: keep him in california if oklahoma wants a remembrance let
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: them buy a t-shirt those are the words of my
[1:03:04] Speaker 2: man for real bad bud for real This eventually did
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: not happen, though. Oklahoma did not have to buy his
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: novelty t-shirts. Instead, Elmer McCurdy's days as a side show
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: traction are officially over. Because on Friday, April 22nd, 1977,
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: one day before Lee Major's 38th birthday, the mummified outlaw
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: gets buried in Guthrie, Oklahoma. He's interred next to fellow
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: outlaw Bill Doolin.
[1:03:31] Speaker 3: Oh, no way.
[1:03:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, a Methodist minister speaks at his burial and he
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: says how, Elmer McCurdy, now after so long, we can
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: say dust to dust and ashes to ashes and lay
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: you to rest with those whose company you sought in life.
[1:03:47] Speaker 3: Oh, that's sweet.
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: Right? I thought so. So just like Abraham Lincoln's body,
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: Elmer's body is also covered with feet of concrete so
[1:03:54] Speaker 2: that no one will dig him up and use his
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: body for their own purposes.
[1:03:57] Speaker 3: And shove stuff in his mouth.
[1:03:58] Speaker 2: Exactly. Finally, Elmer McCurdy is at peace. Side note, Elizabeth.
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: You remember that murder mystery weekend I told you I
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: mentioned up top? Well, it's run by Rebecca Luker, owner
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: of the Stone Lion Inn, which is a bed and
[1:04:11] Speaker 2: breakfast in Guthrie, Oklahoma. Her murder mystery show includes a
[1:04:15] Speaker 2: visit to Elmer McCurdy's gravesite. Like, she takes people out there. Like,
[1:04:18] Speaker 2: there it is. There's cement, so you can put the
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: shovel down. Now, back in the 1990s, a Christian group
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: was upset by her inclusion of this mummified bad man
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: and accused Luker of leading people in a devil-worshiping ritual.
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: Luker recalled this satanic panic and said that my attorney
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: told them she can worship a box of Tide at
[1:04:41] Speaker 2: the cemetery and there is nothing you can do about it. Afterward,
[1:04:45] Speaker 2: Tide sent me a year's supply.
[1:04:47] Speaker 3: I love it.
[1:04:48] Speaker 2: Tide Laundry pro-satanic rituals. There it is. I love it.
[1:04:53] Speaker 3: We don't tend your own garden, people.
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: Right?
[1:04:57] Speaker 3: What does that.
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: Have to— anyway. Yeah. Satanic Panic was big in the 90s,
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: as you remember. So there you go, Elizabeth. That's how
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: the $ 6 million man, Lee Majors, the movie She-Freak, as
[1:05:08] Speaker 2: well as Tide Laundry Detergent, Adolf Hitler's limousine, and my
[1:05:11] Speaker 2: man Cherokee Bill all feature in the bizarre life, death,
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: and afterlife of the outlaw, Elmer McCurdy.
[1:05:17] Speaker 3: That's incredible.
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: So what's the ridiculous takeaway here?
[1:05:19] Speaker 3: I don't even know where to begin. This is like
[1:05:22] Speaker 3: eight things in one.
[1:05:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:05:24] Speaker 3: You know, I'm still just kind of tickled with this
[1:05:27] Speaker 3: human desire to see a dead body.
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: Yeah. And how long it lasts deep into like basically
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: the mid 70s. People are still like, oh, is that
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: a dead body?
[1:05:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So what's your ridiculous takeaway?
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for asking. I was so struck at
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: every turn when I was researching this one because I
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: kind of like I read some stories and then I
[1:05:47] Speaker 2: moved up into the contemporaneous period of like his life,
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: like in 1910, 1911. And then I ended up working
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: my way through the 20th century. And then I end
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: up at the end, just for whatever reason, with the
[1:05:59] Speaker 2: $ 6 million man stuff. Yeah. And I start reading those
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: newspaper stories. I'm just like, this is wild. Yeah. There
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: is such a consistent view of like. The worth of
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: a man's life and a whole thing about, hey, how
[1:06:13] Speaker 2: do we monetize this guy? How are you going to monetize?
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: I bet I can monetize him. But nobody really thinks
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: about him or the sanctity of his body. It's just
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: always like, how can I get rich off this? It's
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: just the American tradition of like, these are raw resources
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: and I'm going to harvest them and I'm going to
[1:06:29] Speaker 2: take them to market. And you're like, what are you
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: talking about? That is a dead man. You're just lugging around. Oh, yeah.
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: So I thought that was wild to experience.
[1:06:38] Speaker 3: That is. The raw resources part is really fascinating.
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: Yeah. So you in the mood for a talkback? Can
[1:06:43] Speaker 2: we kind of wash this one down?
[1:06:44] Speaker 4: I am.
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: I've got two for you today, actually. In the tradition
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: of the two sides of every Schwartz. Oh, my God.
[1:06:55] Speaker 2: Did he just say that? OMG. Hi, Elizabeth.
[1:07:05] Speaker 1: Hi, Zarin.
[1:07:06] Speaker 4: This is Carolyn from Geelong, Australia, long-time listener, first-time caller.
[1:07:10] Speaker 4: I've been thinking about giving you some advice for a
[1:07:12] Speaker 4: while on how to do an Australian accent. So the
[1:07:15] Speaker 4: first thing you have to do is pick which accent
[1:07:17] Speaker 4: because there's a lot of them and then I need
[1:07:19] Speaker 4: you to take a deep breath and just don't do it.
[1:07:24] Speaker 4: I promise your Australian listeners won't mind. Okay, love you, bye.
[1:07:28] Speaker 3: That's rude.
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: Hey, guys.
[1:07:36] Speaker 5: With your podcast about the postcard ban in Australia, I
[1:07:41] Speaker 5: got the giggles and couldn't barely breathe or drive at
[1:07:45] Speaker 5: that point because I was driving. I almost crashed the car,
[1:07:48] Speaker 5: but thankfully I made it. Just giving you guys the
[1:07:52] Speaker 5: shout-out for awesome content. Love what you guys do. Keep
[1:07:56] Speaker 5: on going. Adam from Texas, now in Maryland. All right.
[1:08:00] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: Bye.
[1:08:02] Speaker 3: I love when we make people almost crash their cars.
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: You do love that. I do. I think I should
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: probably address the Australian accent comment. And, hey, thank you
[1:08:11] Speaker 2: for calling it in.
[1:08:13] Speaker 3: You know, Zarin, you're not going to get an Oscar
[1:08:15] Speaker 3: for this one.
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: Oh, exactly. Unlike you, who is a really amazing impersonator
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: and does spot-on impressions. I can't do that.
[1:08:23] Speaker 3: Not everyone has the skills for celebrity impressions.
[1:08:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, I do impressions of the Muppets doing impressions of
[1:08:28] Speaker 2: other people. That's what I do.
[1:08:30] Speaker 3: I just say light moves.
[1:08:31] Speaker 2: Anyway, thank you for your talkbacks. We do always love them,
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: even when they're critical, and I do. So don't do
[1:08:37] Speaker 2: that to Elizabeth. She doesn't want you to do it.
[1:08:39] Speaker 2: I'm like, take a swing. Have at it. But if
[1:08:42] Speaker 2: you want to leave a talkback, go to the iHeart app,
[1:08:44] Speaker 2: download it, leave a talkback, and maybe you get to
[1:08:46] Speaker 2: hear your voice here. We'd love to hear it. So
[1:08:48] Speaker 2: please do it. Or you can find us online at
[1:08:50] Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky. And then if you would
[1:08:53] Speaker 2: like to see images, go to Instagram. And we got
[1:08:56] Speaker 2: images of all these kooky characters we talk about. Also,
[1:09:00] Speaker 2: you can find us apparently on spotify there's like a
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: whole bunch of like people who comment so if you
[1:09:05] Speaker 2: wanted to have an interaction with some fans There are
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: people there who are commenting and responding to each other.
[1:09:10] Speaker 2: So have at it. You can also find some of
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: that on Instagram. So enjoy. And if you'd like some artwork,
[1:09:16] Speaker 2: we have a website, RidiculousCrime.com. That is where we have,
[1:09:20] Speaker 2: you know, some merch if you want to get yourself
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: a T-shirt, a hoodie, a teacup. I don't know what
[1:09:24] Speaker 2: you're into. And big news, Elizabeth. Our website, RidiculousCrime.com, was
[1:09:29] Speaker 2: recently nominated for the Michelin Award for the 2026 French
[1:09:33] Speaker 2: Red Wine of the Year. Oh, wow. I didn't think
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: that was even a category.
[1:09:37] Speaker 3: I never in my wildest dreams.
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, but there you go. We could be getting a
[1:09:40] Speaker 2: Michelin star or whatever the hell this thing is. Pretty soon. Anyway,
[1:09:43] Speaker 2: you can email us if you want at RidiculousCrime at
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: gmail.com if you've got a crime you'd like to share
[1:09:48] Speaker 2: or maybe a confession, but make sure that the statute
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: of limitations are done. And there you go. Thank you
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: for listening, as always. And we will catch you next crime.
[1:10:02] Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zarin Burnett.
[1:10:05] Speaker 2: Produced and edited by Cherokee Bill's current press agent, Mr.
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: Dave Kustin. Our ridiculous assistant is the one person who
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: always knew Elmer McCurdy was a mummy, Terry Maldonado Fong.
[1:10:15] Speaker 2: Research is by the Wild West's most feared fact checker,
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: Marissa Brown. Our theme song is by the High Plains
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: Drifting Cowboy Band, a.k.a. Thomas Lee and Travis Studd. The
[1:10:27] Speaker 2: host wardrobe provided by Botany 500. Producer Dave's wardrobe provided
[1:10:31] Speaker 2: by Mr. Guy of Beverly Hills. Guest hair and makeup
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: by Sparkle Shot and Mr. Andre. Executive producers are Ben,
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: you know, I once thought of becoming a Wild West
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: outlaw myself, but it turns out I'm allergic to horses, Bolin,
[1:10:46] Speaker 2: and Noel, that's wild, because I'm also allergic to horses,
[1:10:51] Speaker 2: but in my case, it's seahorses, brah.
[1:10:59] Speaker 4: Ridiculous crime.
[1:11:02] Speaker 3: Say it one more time.
[1:11:03] Speaker 4: Ridiculous crime.
[1:11:06] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
[1:11:09] Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever
[1:11:13] Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.

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