# Don't Let the Door Hit Ya Where the Good Lord Split Ya: Peter Popoff

An episode of [Ridiculous Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1608230191), 23 Jan 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/0b4bcc39-7ba2-453f-aaac-ae510011dd80/caa11693-d4b3-4bf0-a434-b26d015c5a37/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=3a4c50f5-ff69-4807-aa26-ae510011dd8e

It's one thing to bilk the gullible who are looking to make a quick buck, it's quite another to con those who are looking for healing and salvation. It's terrible. Sickening. Despite the valiant efforts of a skeptic magician, it looks like Peter Popoff is still selling holy water and phony debt relief. This episode sounds like a bummer, but somehow it isn't. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:03] Speaker 2: Zeren Hey, get over here, Claude.
[0:06] Speaker 3: You know it's ridiculous.
[0:07] Speaker 4: I do. Do you know Rube? You don't know, he
[0:13] Speaker 4: knows you. He's back in town. Rubell is an old
[0:16] Speaker 4: baseball player. Was Hall of Fame pitcher Rube r U
[0:22] Speaker 4: b e like he's a Rube. Rube, I don't nunciate.
[0:33] Speaker 2: I'll take that.
[0:35] Speaker 4: So Rube Waddell. He was a really interesting left handed pitcher. Okay,
[0:41] Speaker 4: like he was so interesting.
[0:43] Speaker 2: Well, for instance, if a fire truck would go off
[0:46] Speaker 2: back past the field sometimes while he was pitching, he'd
[0:48] Speaker 2: just run after it in the game, like he'd be
[0:51] Speaker 2: pitching and he would run away.
[0:53] Speaker 3: He would run.
[0:53] Speaker 2: He be gone, run after a fire numerous times. He
[0:58] Speaker 2: did this.
[0:58] Speaker 4: When he was a three year old boy, he walked
[1:00] Speaker 4: to a fire station. He stayed there for three days.
[1:02] Speaker 4: His parents were like, he just loves fire and jins.
[1:05] Speaker 4: And again the early teens, like nineteen hundred nineteen, he's
[1:09] Speaker 4: like a current. No, no, no, no, he was big.
[1:12] Speaker 2: Fans knew this about him, so they would hold up
[1:14] Speaker 2: puppies in the stands and he would come over and
[1:16] Speaker 2: want to pet them. He couldn't be able to pay attention.
[1:18] Speaker 2: He was simple. No, he was amazing. He was just
[1:21] Speaker 2: a he didn't care about your rules, right. Like, for instance,
[1:24] Speaker 2: they had a problem with him because in the off
[1:26] Speaker 2: season they couldn't find him. He would just be gone
[1:28] Speaker 2: for months and then so one time one of his
[1:30] Speaker 2: coaches they like tracked him down and they found that
[1:33] Speaker 2: he was wrestling alligators in a circus. He didn't live
[1:37] Speaker 2: by your rules, apparently not. Rube Wadell was his own man.
[1:41] Speaker 4: I'm telling you, so there you go, look up Rube
[1:44] Speaker 4: Waddell sometimes just have a good time.
[1:46] Speaker 2: Either or are you b E W A D D
[1:51] Speaker 2: E L L Rube? Are you e?
[1:54] Speaker 5: And not?
[1:54] Speaker 2: Are you E? Wade? However, you used to be a.
[1:57] Speaker 3: Guy on TV and radio here dot Dean Adel.
[2:01] Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah.
[2:02] Speaker 3: And my brother and my grandmother were like used to
[2:05] Speaker 3: think like Deanie del bell.
[2:11] Speaker 2: Rue Badel.
[2:12] Speaker 3: That is ridiculous. Do you want to know what else
[2:15] Speaker 3: is ridiculous?
[2:16] Speaker 2: I'm her for it.
[2:17] Speaker 3: Flim Flam in the name of the Lord. Oh yes,
[2:41] Speaker 3: this is ridiculous. Crime a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,
[2:47] Speaker 3: and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder. Free and
[2:50] Speaker 3: one hundred percent ridiculous.
[2:53] Speaker 2: You damn right, Sarah.
[2:55] Speaker 3: There's nothing like that good old time religion?
[2:58] Speaker 2: Dude? Are we doing conning with God?
[3:01] Speaker 3: I was going to say, it's one hundred percent conning
[3:03] Speaker 3: with God.
[3:06] Speaker 2: We didn't tell each other.
[3:07] Speaker 3: We did topics, the spirit move, so the good old
[3:13] Speaker 3: time religion and preach and there's nothing like it. By nothing,
[3:20] Speaker 3: I mean that a lot of people pretend to be
[3:21] Speaker 3: pious and religious and God fearing and such, but they
[3:24] Speaker 3: are anything but Charlatan's Charlatan's criming in the name of
[3:29] Speaker 3: God as a long history.
[3:30] Speaker 2: Yes, it does, almost back to the days of the book.
[3:32] Speaker 3: Well that's the that's the thing with faith. You have
[3:34] Speaker 3: to let go of concrete evidence and follow your heart. Yes,
[3:38] Speaker 3: And the more desperate we feel, the more we generally
[3:42] Speaker 3: turn to faith for answers. Yes, the answers of the
[3:45] Speaker 3: world in front of us are lousy. So let's get
[3:48] Speaker 3: we want something divine.
[3:50] Speaker 2: Yes, what do they say?
[3:52] Speaker 3: There are no atheists and a foxa to So for
[3:55] Speaker 3: those born into a religion, it's ingrained in us.
[3:58] Speaker 2: Yes, I can't get it out.
[4:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's ingreined to be a source of
[4:02] Speaker 3: solace and inspiration. And it doesn't matter what the organized
[4:07] Speaker 3: religion is. You know that it's something you don't shake. Yeah,
[4:11] Speaker 3: even if you stray away in there. Belief and faith, though,
[4:15] Speaker 3: are so personal, and I think that's why I find
[4:19] Speaker 3: it so offensive when it's violated.
[4:22] Speaker 2: Good point, I do too, Yeah, so thank you.
[4:24] Speaker 4: Also intellectually, when faith goes into gullibility, I also feel
[4:27] Speaker 4: offended that just met.
[4:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you're not sure. Con artists who work in
[4:34] Speaker 3: phony ministry. Again, it doesn't matter the denomination or the faith.
[4:37] Speaker 2: Or what have you.
[4:38] Speaker 3: They're doing something so foul and predatory and low speaking
[4:44] Speaker 3: of it is so I have a terrible televangelist slash
[4:50] Speaker 3: faith healers slash clairvoyant slash con artists for you today.
[4:54] Speaker 3: Oh good goes by the name of Peter pop Off.
[4:57] Speaker 2: Oh sounds familiar of Peter pop He has a good vodka,
[5:01] Speaker 2: right pop Off exactly?
[5:05] Speaker 3: That sounds like it's a nickname, Peter pop Off. He
[5:09] Speaker 3: would give someone with like a short temper, like a
[5:11] Speaker 3: bantam rooster of a person like, Oh, Peter pop Off.
[5:13] Speaker 2: Over here he's yelling at the starboard Popoff.
[5:15] Speaker 4: Theresa Again, that sounds like a name that stan Lee
[5:19] Speaker 4: would give to one of his always.
[5:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, no, No, this is a real guy.
[5:24] Speaker 2: Okay, real guy.
[5:26] Speaker 3: He was born in nineteen forty six in West Berlin,
[5:28] Speaker 3: occupied Berlin.
[5:29] Speaker 2: I was almost born in West Berlin in nineteen forty six.
[5:32] Speaker 2: Decided to wait a while.
[5:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, me too, that's so weird. His family they immigrated
[5:37] Speaker 3: to the States when he was a kid. Big relief
[5:39] Speaker 3: for them, I can imagine.
[5:41] Speaker 2: Sure.
[5:41] Speaker 3: This is how he tells his tale on his website
[5:45] Speaker 3: Peter Popoff dot org. Peter's grandfather and father grew up
[5:51] Speaker 3: in a culture behind the Iron Curtain, where preaching the
[5:54] Speaker 3: Gospel was forbidden and both were tortured because of their faith.
[5:59] Speaker 3: Communists and was in full fledge churches were hidden underground.
[6:04] Speaker 3: Pastor Peter escaped Berlin, Germany when he was just a
[6:07] Speaker 3: young boy. He remembers traveling with his family by boat
[6:10] Speaker 3: to America and seeing the Statue of Liberty for the
[6:14] Speaker 3: first time. In his young twenties, Peter met his wife, Elizabeth.
[6:18] Speaker 3: They traveled together, preaching and teaching in churches and conferences
[6:22] Speaker 3: across America. His sermons were filled with stories of the
[6:25] Speaker 3: underground churches and how he was reaching them with huge helium.
[6:30] Speaker 2: Balloons filled with Bibles.
[6:32] Speaker 3: That would land in communist territory. In the latter part
[6:36] Speaker 3: of the nineteen seventies, Reverend pop Off received the vision
[6:40] Speaker 3: of reaching multitudes via radio. His broadcasts were heard on
[6:44] Speaker 3: over one hundred stations across America and other parts of.
[6:47] Speaker 2: The world like Mexico and Canada. Yeah.
[6:50] Speaker 3: Basically, so, yeah, we'll get to that. Peter. He followed
[6:55] Speaker 3: his father, who was an ethnic Bulgarian, as he plied
[6:59] Speaker 3: his trade and preached at tent revivals across the US. Oh,
[7:06] Speaker 3: so they they escaped the Iron Curtain. They're in West Berlin.
[7:10] Speaker 2: Then they make it, Yeah, make it to America and
[7:12] Speaker 2: then they start hawking religion intent revivals and imagine in
[7:15] Speaker 2: the South Midwest. They all over.
[7:17] Speaker 3: They called Peter the miracle Boy evangelist.
[7:21] Speaker 2: Oh, and they're ads.
[7:23] Speaker 3: That said that he could like see the future or
[7:26] Speaker 3: he could heal the city.
[7:27] Speaker 2: So he's not like James Baldwin where he's just a
[7:28] Speaker 2: really good preacher. As a teenager, he was like he's
[7:32] Speaker 2: got the touch. He's got Yeah.
[7:34] Speaker 3: So he was homeschooled and so that he would be
[7:37] Speaker 3: able to like hit.
[7:38] Speaker 2: The boards and got the touch. But he did.
[7:40] Speaker 3: He went to community college. He went to Chafey College,
[7:43] Speaker 3: and then he got a bachelor's from UC Santa Barbara Path, California.
[7:47] Speaker 2: Boy that recommended right totally.
[7:49] Speaker 3: To go from like West Berlin immediately following the war
[7:52] Speaker 3: to sunny California, all the while preaching the gospel totally.
[7:56] Speaker 2: I mean, I guess saving money on your education with
[7:58] Speaker 2: the community college.
[7:59] Speaker 3: Exactly wise choice. So as I said in nineteen seventy one,
[8:03] Speaker 3: or as he explained, he married a woman named Elizabeth's
[8:06] Speaker 3: always a good It's either a good choice or the
[8:09] Speaker 3: worst decision of your life depends on the Elizabeth. So
[8:13] Speaker 3: let's go back. Let's talk about those Bibles with the
[8:16] Speaker 3: helium below, please, shall we? So Peter wanted to spread
[8:19] Speaker 3: the gospel to all of those behind the iron curtain.
[8:23] Speaker 3: May I read you a quote from an amazing GQ
[8:26] Speaker 3: article on hair pop off.
[8:27] Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna have to pay you. No,
[8:29] Speaker 2: I can do it for free. Please.
[8:31] Speaker 3: Quote a photograph in his nineteen eighty memoir Behind Curtains
[8:35] Speaker 3: of Darkness, A New Fire is Blazing? Which hello?
[8:38] Speaker 2: Memoir title why crazy?
[8:39] Speaker 3: Title shows pop Off in front of a boat, hair
[8:42] Speaker 3: flowing like a Begee's two Bibles fanned in his left hand.
[8:47] Speaker 3: The caption reads, Peter prepares to drop bibles into the
[8:50] Speaker 3: Black Sea off istanbul Turkey wrapped in styrofoam for buoyancy
[8:54] Speaker 3: and waterproofing. The bibles eventually washed up on communist shores.
[8:59] Speaker 3: The book makes the play that Peter was quote smuggling
[9:01] Speaker 3: thousands of Bibles into China, and that in Eastern Europe
[9:05] Speaker 3: people would walk one hundred and fifty miles to hear
[9:07] Speaker 3: him preach. Border guards who could have had him arrested
[9:10] Speaker 3: let him pass because they were quote hungry to know
[9:13] Speaker 3: about God, I.
[9:15] Speaker 2: Mean powerful motivational See it with him and the boat
[9:19] Speaker 2: and the bibles all wrapped upella.
[9:24] Speaker 3: Then so he starts He's throwing him into the ocean,
[9:29] Speaker 3: into the.
[9:29] Speaker 2: Sea unsinkable bibles.
[9:30] Speaker 3: Right then he starts strapping bags of bibles to helium.
[9:33] Speaker 2: Bullet dropping those like frozen turkey.
[9:35] Speaker 3: Big big shout out to lawn chair Larry Rip and
[9:39] Speaker 3: balloon boy keep on rocket.
[9:41] Speaker 2: Hell.
[9:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, he said he was setting the bibles aloft over
[9:45] Speaker 3: the Soviet border. But here's the thing. People were donating
[9:49] Speaker 3: a lot of money for him to do this. H
[9:52] Speaker 3: and this wasn't out of his own coffers. It was
[9:54] Speaker 3: very gofund me I imagining and some of the folks
[9:56] Speaker 3: who chipped in to bring the word of the Lord
[9:58] Speaker 3: to the evil Empire. They wanted proof that this was happening.
[10:02] Speaker 2: Give me photos. Yeah, photos didn't.
[10:04] Speaker 3: Happen, shoudn't happen. And what do you know, at that
[10:07] Speaker 3: exact same time, there was a burglary at Peter pop
[10:10] Speaker 3: Off h Q. No, they took everything.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Somebody the stolen all of my papers.
[10:19] Speaker 3: Like, look, I have no time to answer questions. I
[10:21] Speaker 3: need cash, stat so okay. So then he's like, look,
[10:26] Speaker 3: I'm just going to put my focus on the good
[10:28] Speaker 3: old us of A and like friend of the Show
[10:31] Speaker 3: Maria Duval, he went the postal route.
[10:34] Speaker 6: No.
[10:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, generally a bad bet because those are federal crimes. Yes,
[10:38] Speaker 3: every incident, according to a nineteen eighty seven article in
[10:42] Speaker 3: Science and the Paranormal, Oh which we need a subscription
[10:46] Speaker 3: totally yesterday machine yeah. Quote. Evangelist slash healer Peter pop
[10:52] Speaker 3: Off has headquarters in Upland, California.
[10:55] Speaker 2: Oh no.
[10:57] Speaker 3: Once he sends out slick fundraising little literature that is
[11:01] Speaker 3: generated and printed by a computer to appear as if
[11:04] Speaker 3: it were personally typed and signed. Those on Popoff's mailing
[11:07] Speaker 3: list have received Russian currency, handkerchiefs and red felt hearts
[11:12] Speaker 3: to be carried or worn, then each to be sent
[11:15] Speaker 3: back with a check attached. Special envelopes and endless appeals
[11:19] Speaker 3: for the emergency needs of his ministry arrive every week.
[11:23] Speaker 3: Each is personalized by the computer, which drops the recipient's
[11:26] Speaker 3: name into the text occasionally after the salutation brother. Sometimes
[11:34] Speaker 3: the letters start off typed and in an ensuing page
[11:38] Speaker 3: turn into what appears to be a handwritten request for
[11:42] Speaker 3: money from Reverend Popoff himself. This quote handwriting is printed
[11:46] Speaker 3: as well.
[11:47] Speaker 2: Wow, so he's stillly doing like the old school kind
[11:50] Speaker 2: of talking about due And then also you told me
[11:53] Speaker 2: I don't remember the con man who did it, where
[11:54] Speaker 2: they would give him something free and then get it back.
[11:57] Speaker 2: They would like loan on money, like oh yeah, and
[11:58] Speaker 2: they give the money back, then they'd ask running exactly.
[12:01] Speaker 2: Combining these ideas.
[12:02] Speaker 3: He's like, how about this, bestie, I'll send you a
[12:05] Speaker 3: red felt heeart totally you put in your pocket, walk
[12:08] Speaker 3: around for a while, and send it back to me
[12:10] Speaker 3: with twenty bucks.
[12:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be great. And I'll go spread and.
[12:13] Speaker 3: You're so welcome and they're like a good deal.
[12:15] Speaker 2: I'm on it.
[12:15] Speaker 3: So like that's like Maria Duval. Unlike Maria Duval and
[12:20] Speaker 3: ridiculous crime. He did live shows, live shows, and they
[12:24] Speaker 3: were hits.
[12:25] Speaker 2: So he was on well he was a preacher.
[12:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, one different TV station, forty radio stations. His monthly
[12:33] Speaker 3: budget was five hundred and fifty thousand dollars according to
[12:36] Speaker 3: his business Did.
[12:37] Speaker 2: He play up like the German accent and do the
[12:39] Speaker 2: whole thing?
[12:39] Speaker 6: You know?
[12:40] Speaker 3: That's the thing is like he lost it. He has
[12:43] Speaker 3: the harshest, nastiest tone.
[12:46] Speaker 2: Huh yeah, not what I would expect. No me neither.
[12:49] Speaker 3: It's just he sounds really mad, and I guess he's
[12:51] Speaker 3: supposed to be mad at the devil. Like he's just.
[12:55] Speaker 2: Soup out shout shout at the devil. No gentleness to it.
[12:59] Speaker 3: And it's kind of like how you know if you
[13:01] Speaker 3: talk to a dog in a sweet tone, like aren't.
[13:03] Speaker 2: You this stupid as little boy?
[13:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, you can say mean if you're like, you know,
[13:08] Speaker 3: get over here, good boy, like they get all confused, exactly,
[13:13] Speaker 3: I got a treat for you. So that but that's
[13:16] Speaker 3: like him, so he's like he's healing people, but like,
[13:19] Speaker 3: I don't know his this is the tone of his voice.
[13:22] Speaker 2: Thought he had something kind of sonorous and maybe melting
[13:25] Speaker 2: in weird.
[13:26] Speaker 3: Accent sharpening, and the whole thing is super theatrical. Right,
[13:30] Speaker 3: So he asks the audience of believers to quote break
[13:34] Speaker 3: free of the Devil.
[13:36] Speaker 2: That was their sign.
[13:39] Speaker 3: Though they're like, oh, I know what that means. They
[13:41] Speaker 3: had to get Yeah, they got up and they chucked
[13:44] Speaker 3: like their various medications up on stage. Yeah. So they'd
[13:48] Speaker 3: line up and they would toss like blood pressure met.
[13:52] Speaker 2: In pill bottles or just handful of loose pills.
[13:54] Speaker 3: Well usually in pill bottles, some loose pills glisser and
[13:57] Speaker 3: tablets like die beatis medication, and then some of just
[14:02] Speaker 3: like random pills. Right, I'm not gonna lie. If I
[14:07] Speaker 3: were on the maintenance crew, I'd be shuffling those bottles
[14:11] Speaker 3: around with the toe of my boot, like looking for
[14:13] Speaker 3: a sitting on the edge with the house lights up,
[14:18] Speaker 3: slipping through a pill identify your book to some of
[14:21] Speaker 3: the pills in my other hands. I'm just going for total, transparent,
[14:26] Speaker 3: very imaginary nineteen eighties Elizabeth. But either way, anyway, so
[14:31] Speaker 3: people were throwing life saving meds away, which is just.
[14:35] Speaker 2: And somehow this is to because that's the devil. The
[14:38] Speaker 2: devil gave him the medicine. The deviling them.
[14:41] Speaker 3: You can believe in God and science, God wants you
[14:44] Speaker 3: to have those pills.
[14:45] Speaker 4: I don't understand, Like, how come God, I don't understand the.
[14:49] Speaker 2: Idea, Like were God's only inventing part of the universe?
[14:51] Speaker 2: You know, It's like, oh, this part the devil did medicine.
[14:55] Speaker 2: I did he?
[14:55] Speaker 3: Like what is this the devil just like super nerd?
[14:58] Speaker 2: I want you to die and come to heavy he
[15:00] Speaker 2: wants you to live here. I'm look, what are we
[15:02] Speaker 2: doing here?
[15:04] Speaker 3: So like he gets all these people throwing their meds
[15:07] Speaker 3: up there, then he would call out the name and
[15:09] Speaker 3: sickness of an audience member that he'd never met.
[15:12] Speaker 2: It like God's like whispering in his brain.
[15:14] Speaker 3: I'm looking for ad to May and I know that
[15:16] Speaker 3: she has kidney problems.
[15:17] Speaker 2: Where are you ad to Ma?
[15:19] Speaker 3: Like up jumps A to a. How do you know
[15:22] Speaker 3: I have kidney problems? Like, well, get on up there,
[15:24] Speaker 3: let the heel and begin. I've always wanted to go
[15:27] Speaker 3: to one of those readings by the TV psychics to
[15:29] Speaker 3: tell you that someone on the other side wants to
[15:31] Speaker 3: talk to you. They'd be all, there's a man whose
[15:34] Speaker 3: name begins with R. And I'd be like, oh my god,
[15:36] Speaker 3: that's my dad. Riberto like, that's not my dad's name. Like, no,
[15:41] Speaker 3: dudes with a name starting an R in my family,
[15:43] Speaker 3: and they like mess with them and see how far
[15:45] Speaker 3: it went. But like then I'd probably go in and
[15:47] Speaker 3: they'd start naming off very specific relatives and friends of mine.
[15:52] Speaker 3: They'd be like, your grandmother, Helen said, she's ashamed of
[15:55] Speaker 3: you for wasting your time and everyone else's time. Goofing
[15:58] Speaker 3: off here the people have their comfort and stop being
[16:01] Speaker 3: a wise.
[16:02] Speaker 2: Like that's what happened, like freaking out, it's too real.
[16:05] Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I'm like Jason.
[16:09] Speaker 2: So you know.
[16:11] Speaker 3: In time, though, let's talk about Peter please. People started
[16:15] Speaker 3: thinking that maybe Peter was taking them for suckers. Oh really,
[16:18] Speaker 3: I'm glad they got there, And so by the mid
[16:20] Speaker 3: eighties skeptics were questioning his techniques.
[16:23] Speaker 2: There's this guy James Randy.
[16:25] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the amazing, amazing, famous magician and a psychic investigator.
[16:31] Speaker 2: Yes, skeptics here, Oh the best.
[16:33] Speaker 3: So he and his magician buddy Steve Shaw. They heard
[16:36] Speaker 3: about Peter and they went to check out one of
[16:38] Speaker 3: his healing sessions.
[16:40] Speaker 2: Yes, and oh yeah.
[16:41] Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is going to get so good.
[16:45] Speaker 3: So they were pretty stunned at the speed and accuracy
[16:48] Speaker 3: of Peter's call outs to the audience. He knew their names,
[16:52] Speaker 3: what ailments were vexing them, who their relatives were, their address, like,
[16:57] Speaker 3: he did this over and over dozens of folks Like
[17:00] Speaker 3: Randy and Shaw. They knew there was absolutely no way
[17:02] Speaker 3: that Peter was working from memory or like new mind
[17:05] Speaker 3: would yeah, and like he's certainly not an agent of
[17:08] Speaker 3: the Lord. Like, so this is per science and paranormal
[17:12] Speaker 3: my new favorite publication quote. Shaw told Randy he's got
[17:16] Speaker 3: something else going for him, and I think I know
[17:18] Speaker 3: what I have to do. Randy agreed and sent Steve
[17:21] Speaker 3: to get a closer look at pop Off. Steve noticed
[17:25] Speaker 3: that pop Off was wearing a hearing aid in his
[17:27] Speaker 3: left ear.
[17:27] Speaker 2: Oh curious.
[17:28] Speaker 3: So it's like, you know what healer heal thyself And
[17:32] Speaker 3: if he was like clean and arteries and casting out
[17:34] Speaker 3: kidney failure with Prairie'd be able to fine tune.
[17:37] Speaker 2: His own.
[17:39] Speaker 3: Would you not?
[17:40] Speaker 2: Saren?
[17:41] Speaker 3: That was not a hearing aid. What's let's take a
[17:44] Speaker 3: break and think about that. I'm going to put on
[17:46] Speaker 3: some healing ads that will hopefully clear out any extra
[17:50] Speaker 3: stuff in your bank account.
[17:51] Speaker 2: I'm going to dig this pen cap out of my ear.
[17:52] Speaker 3: And I'm also I'm going to pray over you, so
[17:54] Speaker 3: don't sit still. When we return, we'll catch up with
[17:57] Speaker 3: Peter pop Off in his new nemeses.
[18:00] Speaker 7: Hell Yeah, Zaren, don't scare me like that, Saren Elizabeth.
[18:23] Speaker 3: Heal heal child.
[18:25] Speaker 2: Okay.
[18:25] Speaker 3: When we last met.
[18:26] Speaker 2: I can't hear you. I put a gap in both
[18:28] Speaker 2: the ears.
[18:30] Speaker 3: Peter pop Off was on stage calling out miracles with
[18:33] Speaker 3: a quickness and a bug in his ear. So the
[18:36] Speaker 3: hero of our.
[18:36] Speaker 2: Story, James Randy, I'm man.
[18:38] Speaker 3: He knew something wasn't right, and he knew that in
[18:41] Speaker 3: order to level a charge at this guy, he had
[18:43] Speaker 3: to have complete proof, not just faith.
[18:46] Speaker 2: That's why is the skeptics hero. I'm a big fan
[18:48] Speaker 2: of the guy.
[18:48] Speaker 3: I like to call it my lizard brain when I
[18:50] Speaker 3: sent stuff like that, like my animal self, the back brain.
[18:54] Speaker 3: When your mind and body tell you something isn't right,
[18:56] Speaker 3: you have to listen to.
[18:57] Speaker 2: That, like the old hairs are the neck kind of feeling.
[18:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're accuse a big dog evangelist of being
[19:02] Speaker 3: a Charlotte, and you better have the receipts, as the
[19:05] Speaker 3: kids say.
[19:06] Speaker 2: You can't just have your spidey sense going.
[19:08] Speaker 3: No, So Randy he needed an electronic surveillance expert, is
[19:13] Speaker 3: what he really.
[19:13] Speaker 2: Oh he's gonna bugs. Yes, he rang up.
[19:17] Speaker 3: This dude that he knew named Alec Jason, one of
[19:20] Speaker 3: them two first named fellas always interesting, the coyote tricksters
[19:24] Speaker 3: of the government I D world, So James Randy. Oddly enough,
[19:28] Speaker 3: he's another one of those James. Although Randy spelled with
[19:31] Speaker 3: an eye throws you off. R I I D I exactly.
[19:34] Speaker 2: No, R and D I.
[19:37] Speaker 3: So Alec Jason he had the bona fides right, He'd
[19:40] Speaker 3: done a bunch of police and detective and intelligence work.
[19:43] Speaker 3: He was based out of San Francisco, so you know
[19:45] Speaker 3: he had to be good.
[19:47] Speaker 2: And Sam Spade was based out of Elizabeth.
[19:50] Speaker 3: You and everyone around me are going to have to
[19:53] Speaker 3: just suffer through my California supremacism.
[19:56] Speaker 2: For a while.
[19:58] Speaker 3: Little jazzed up. Oh it's getting way, yeah, just let
[20:01] Speaker 3: me have this. It's the only bright spot in the winter.
[20:04] Speaker 2: I'm on it anyway.
[20:07] Speaker 3: So not long after Randy got in touch with Jason,
[20:11] Speaker 3: Peter pop Off surfaced in San Francisco.
[20:14] Speaker 2: Hey, you just mentioned that I know to.
[20:16] Speaker 3: Heal some souls, Zarin.
[20:19] Speaker 2: Oh you tricked me.
[20:20] Speaker 3: I did I want you to picture it. It's February
[20:24] Speaker 3: twenty third, nineteen eighty six. You are Bob Steiner, the
[20:29] Speaker 3: assistant to electronics expert Alec Jason. You are both a
[20:34] Speaker 3: CPA and a professional magician. You are also a member
[20:39] Speaker 3: of the National Council Against Health Fraud, a consultant to
[20:43] Speaker 3: the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Religion, and the
[20:46] Speaker 3: founder of the Bay Area Skeptics.
[20:49] Speaker 2: You are so much fun at parties.
[20:51] Speaker 3: Yesterday, you and Jason headed over to the San Francisco
[20:55] Speaker 3: Civic Auditorium with a piece of his equipment, a twenty
[20:58] Speaker 3: thousand dollars computer scanning system. You set it up and
[21:02] Speaker 3: then you left it turned on for a couple hours
[21:04] Speaker 3: at the empty auditorium. This thing could locate anything new
[21:08] Speaker 3: being broadcast in an area. It goes through all the
[21:11] Speaker 3: radio frequencies and basically memorizes everything on the air. Now
[21:16] Speaker 3: today you're back at the auditorium. It helps that Jason
[21:19] Speaker 3: has all sorts of law enforcement connections.
[21:21] Speaker 2: You two slip into an.
[21:23] Speaker 3: Unused av room and set the scanner back up. You
[21:26] Speaker 3: plan to compare the different broadcast signals. It will ignore
[21:29] Speaker 3: everything it heard yesterday and only look for new signals.
[21:33] Speaker 3: You set up the tape recorder and turn on the scanner.
[21:37] Speaker 3: It hones in on frequency thirty nine point one seven megahertz.
[21:42] Speaker 3: Alec sits beside you with headphones on, listening. Suddenly he
[21:46] Speaker 3: hears a woman's voice ring clear through the scanner.
[21:49] Speaker 2: Hello, PD, I love you.
[21:52] Speaker 3: I'm talking to you.
[21:53] Speaker 6: Can you hear me?
[21:54] Speaker 2: If you can't, you're in.
[21:56] Speaker 3: Trouble because I'm talking as well as I can.
[21:59] Speaker 2: I'm looking up names right now.
[22:02] Speaker 3: You recognize that voice from the recon you and Alec
[22:05] Speaker 3: have been doing. It's Elizabeth. Pop Off. You and Alec
[22:08] Speaker 3: listen stunned as Elizabeth feeds her husband the personal details
[22:13] Speaker 3: of audience members. James Randy had a theory that Elizabeth
[22:17] Speaker 3: was getting information off the prayer cards the couple had
[22:19] Speaker 3: people fill out before they filed in. She and her
[22:22] Speaker 3: staff also chatted up the audience members to glean information,
[22:25] Speaker 3: and this was proof. You watch as Elizabeth mills around
[22:29] Speaker 3: with a large purse on her shoulder. That has to
[22:31] Speaker 3: be the transmitter, and the microphone must be somewhere under
[22:35] Speaker 3: her blouse. You guess based on the occasional brush of
[22:37] Speaker 3: fabric in your ear. You will later detail what you
[22:41] Speaker 3: hear for an essay in Secular Humanism's publication, but for
[22:45] Speaker 3: now you are captivated by the con unfolding before you.
[22:49] Speaker 3: Elizabeth whispering and Peter commanding the stage with confidence. You
[22:54] Speaker 3: hear Elizabeth say, Josephine Parino. Josephine Perino calls out to
[23:00] Speaker 3: the crowd, Hospha Parino Pirino. Josephine Pirino stands and weekly
[23:07] Speaker 3: raises her hand. She's got cancer up the stomach. You've
[23:11] Speaker 3: got cancer of the stomach. There's a commotion, and then
[23:14] Speaker 3: Peter raises his hands over Josephine yells for the devil
[23:18] Speaker 3: to back off, and proclaims her heel the whole open,
[23:20] Speaker 3: palm on the forehead and everything. Rosa came here, Rosa camere.
[23:26] Speaker 2: She's on the right side too.
[23:27] Speaker 3: Rosa came here?
[23:29] Speaker 2: Is it came here? Got hives?
[23:32] Speaker 3: Rosa? You've got high.
[23:34] Speaker 2: She takes a lot of medication. You've been taking a
[23:37] Speaker 2: lot of medication.
[23:39] Speaker 3: She's there with her son, Clipper, and he has.
[23:41] Speaker 1: A lump in his chest.
[23:43] Speaker 2: He's got a lump in his chest. This is sickening.
[23:49] Speaker 3: You and Alec exchange glances and sit silently as the
[23:52] Speaker 3: con continues. When the event is over, you watch audience
[23:56] Speaker 3: members stuff money into offering boxes cut checks with the
[23:59] Speaker 3: hopes maybe some of Peter Popoff's healing powers might come
[24:02] Speaker 3: their way. You wait until the crowd is all left,
[24:05] Speaker 3: pack up your equipment, and head off to meet up
[24:07] Speaker 3: with James Randy and his crew of investigators.
[24:11] Speaker 2: This is just the beginning. I love life. Your life
[24:16] Speaker 2: is amazing. I haven't had so much to talk about
[24:20] Speaker 2: at dinner parties. All right, So I was doing this
[24:23] Speaker 2: gig this week.
[24:25] Speaker 3: So getting just the one show is proof wasn't enough
[24:28] Speaker 3: for James Randy. He wanted incontrovertible evidence, so he and
[24:33] Speaker 3: his group followed pop Off and crew on the road
[24:37] Speaker 3: like truly and I need a miracle saying here. So
[24:40] Speaker 3: Randy had volunteers in.
[24:45] Speaker 2: The parking lot, pretty gas money, it's healing burritos.
[24:50] Speaker 3: Randy. He had volunteers in each city and they would
[24:53] Speaker 3: use fake names and ailments to and like, look like Mark, Oh.
[24:56] Speaker 2: They're getting dressed up. Yeah me nice. I was wondering
[24:58] Speaker 2: they're gonna get caught.
[25:00] Speaker 6: I know.
[25:00] Speaker 3: They wanted to get tagged as quote hot ones, which
[25:02] Speaker 3: is what Elizabeth thought, and it was like almost two easy,
[25:07] Speaker 3: we got a hot one. This went on for more
[25:09] Speaker 3: than six months. In all, there were more than sixty
[25:14] Speaker 3: volunteers and they hit up pop off revivals in Rochester, Brooklyn, Houston, Stockton, Anaheim, Sacramento,
[25:23] Speaker 3: San Francisco, Philadelphia, Detroit, Saint Louis, Fort Lauderdale.
[25:27] Speaker 4: His definition of incontrovertible evidence is really hot. It's deep,
[25:33] Speaker 4: the cities in every region.
[25:36] Speaker 2: Both sides of the mississipis incredible.
[25:38] Speaker 3: So Elizabeth would approach Randy's ragtag bunch of skeptical misfits
[25:43] Speaker 3: of these things.
[25:44] Speaker 2: I want to be in this group, and oh god,
[25:46] Speaker 2: me too.
[25:46] Speaker 3: Peter would call out their information during the show, and
[25:49] Speaker 3: Elizabeth is reading the information from the cards like in
[25:52] Speaker 3: the order she got them. There's no randomizing or shuffling.
[25:56] Speaker 3: And they thought so little of the intelligence of their audience,
[25:59] Speaker 3: and they relied so much on their desperation.
[26:02] Speaker 2: So do you want to hate them more than you
[26:04] Speaker 2: likely already do Is it possible? Check this out?
[26:08] Speaker 3: Randy has a recording of Elizabeth pointing out a woman
[26:11] Speaker 3: to Peter by saying that quote that big N word
[26:15] Speaker 3: in the back.
[26:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, you got me, and you did it.
[26:19] Speaker 3: In another incident, Randy like relays this story of his
[26:23] Speaker 3: absolute disgust at hearing Elizabeth and her minions laughing their
[26:28] Speaker 3: tails off over the physical appearance of a man with
[26:31] Speaker 3: advanced testicular cancer. Oh god, yeah, these people are the
[26:34] Speaker 3: lowest of the low and telling this story is not
[26:38] Speaker 3: bringing light to the winter of darkness.
[26:40] Speaker 2: No, but hell ain't hot enough for them.
[26:42] Speaker 3: But then there's Don henvic He was a prodigious volunteer
[26:45] Speaker 3: for Randy. Okay, he put on all sorts of disguises, Yes,
[26:50] Speaker 3: came up with great ailments. I wish it was like
[26:53] Speaker 3: on that episode of the Office where Dwight has to
[26:55] Speaker 3: pick a new insurance plan and he makes people list
[26:58] Speaker 3: their illnesses. Jim writes stuff like sausage fingers classic. So
[27:05] Speaker 3: Don Henvick, at one show he called himself Bernice and
[27:09] Speaker 3: said he had uterine cancer.
[27:11] Speaker 2: Bernice all this.
[27:14] Speaker 3: I can't do this justice. So this is how Science
[27:17] Speaker 3: and the Paranormal Magazine tells it quote. Finally, pop Off
[27:21] Speaker 3: stood five feet in front of Don and calls his
[27:25] Speaker 3: alias Bernice Mannikoff. He promised to burn the cancer out
[27:30] Speaker 3: of her body. He laid hands on Bernice, and Don
[27:32] Speaker 3: gave his most ladylike shriek as he was shocked by
[27:35] Speaker 3: the power of the Holy Ghost. Pop Off then commanded
[27:38] Speaker 3: Bernice to rise out of the wheelchair and walk. Dan
[27:42] Speaker 3: staggered to his feet and walk back and forth across
[27:44] Speaker 3: the stage to the loud cheers.
[27:46] Speaker 2: Of the crowd.
[27:47] Speaker 3: Don's performance was perfect almost It was only later that
[27:51] Speaker 3: Don learned what had been said about him on the
[27:53] Speaker 3: secret transmission. Elizabeth talking to pop Off in the zeer
[27:57] Speaker 3: piece quote, Bernice Bernie mann Coff Manicoff, the woman with
[28:02] Speaker 3: hair on her face. She's in a wheelchair and she
[28:04] Speaker 3: can walk after Don. He's in a wheelchair, she can
[28:08] Speaker 3: walk after Don rose from the wheelchairs.
[28:10] Speaker 2: All her out of the chair. That'll be great to walk.
[28:12] Speaker 3: Elizabeth started screaming to pop Off via the secret transmitter.
[28:16] Speaker 3: That's the guy from Anaheim.
[28:18] Speaker 2: He's a stooge. It's a man.
[28:20] Speaker 6: A man.
[28:20] Speaker 2: Get away from him. That's the guy from Anaheim. Dropping
[28:23] Speaker 2: fast upon.
[28:25] Speaker 3: Hearing this, Randy and the other investigators felt that it
[28:27] Speaker 3: was time to wrap things.
[28:28] Speaker 2: Yeah you're busted. You you've been made. Yeah. I love
[28:31] Speaker 2: that he has a beard. Yeah, just like the lazy said,
[28:34] Speaker 2: there you go. I'm Bernie is a man. You can
[28:37] Speaker 2: hear burn the nice man.
[28:39] Speaker 3: I cough, exactly, it's so good. So anyway, Randy collects
[28:43] Speaker 3: this evidence, goes on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson
[28:46] Speaker 3: in April nineteen eighty six and spills the beans on
[28:50] Speaker 3: Peter pop Off. He went on Carson a bunch of
[28:53] Speaker 3: times to debunk folks. One time Carson booked Uri Geller, Yeah,
[28:58] Speaker 3: the dude, and so Carson told him like, yeah, we're
[29:02] Speaker 3: just gonna have this interview.
[29:03] Speaker 2: You've watched it incredible.
[29:06] Speaker 3: So Carson puts his own props out for Ury, which
[29:10] Speaker 3: was unusual because he usually brought his own stuff, and
[29:13] Speaker 3: of course he couldn't do any of the tricks, and
[29:15] Speaker 3: he gets like a little prickly with Johnny. Carson sets
[29:19] Speaker 3: him up like, hey, yeah, pop Off is Ury Geller
[29:25] Speaker 3: is like, oh, you know, you told me you're just
[29:27] Speaker 3: going to have some interview questions.
[29:30] Speaker 2: I can ask you some questions too. It's so amazing.
[29:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, Johnny salty Johnny is so good, but pop Off
[29:37] Speaker 3: so he gets exposed on one of the biggest shows
[29:40] Speaker 3: on TV.
[29:41] Speaker 2: Today's show totally the pop.
[29:43] Speaker 3: Off Ministry was asked about the audio bug in Peter's ear.
[29:48] Speaker 3: Janice Gleeson, a PR consultant, said that the hearing device
[29:51] Speaker 3: was to keep in touch with the television crew. At
[29:55] Speaker 3: no point in any of the recordings from the scanner
[29:57] Speaker 3: did Peter talk to the camera folks a versa, just
[30:00] Speaker 3: him and Elizabeth. So then this has pointed out to
[30:03] Speaker 3: the PR lady Gleson, and she countered that the tape
[30:07] Speaker 3: that Randy played on the tonight show is fake. Pop
[30:11] Speaker 3: Off later admitted, Okay, yeah, that was Elizabeth on the tape.
[30:14] Speaker 3: She was communicating that. And he really did go there
[30:18] Speaker 3: and compare his ministry to a TV game show quote.
[30:23] Speaker 3: It's just like the price is right, they expect to
[30:25] Speaker 3: be called down. He said, this is a very effective
[30:28] Speaker 3: format for television.
[30:30] Speaker 2: Oh they try to make it like you just don't
[30:32] Speaker 2: understand how this.
[30:35] Speaker 3: Is a this is what we do. So coincidentally, that's
[30:39] Speaker 3: when the whole game show format was mothball at that point.
[30:43] Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty seven, he filed for bankruptcy. Pop Off
[30:49] Speaker 3: him well, he had more than seven hundred and ninety
[30:52] Speaker 3: unpaid creditors. The ministry held more than a million dollars debt,
[30:57] Speaker 3: and half of that was just Peter's.
[30:59] Speaker 2: Personal that a card debt.
[31:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, but that wasn't the end of the ministry of course.
[31:04] Speaker 3: Six nineteen eighty seven, he incorporated People United for Christ
[31:09] Speaker 3: as a Californian nonprofit organization, chairman of the board. His dad,
[31:14] Speaker 3: the o G evangelist, the main smuggler. Let's break here.
[31:20] Speaker 3: We're going to pray for Peter Popoff's soul, which needs
[31:23] Speaker 3: all the help it can get. Yes, when we get back,
[31:27] Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you about his next money moves.
[31:50] Speaker 2: Zaren he has Risen comes over here praying he would Peter.
[31:55] Speaker 3: Popoff shamed on the national stage for conning sick folks
[31:59] Speaker 3: in the name of the Lord. He refused to give up.
[32:01] Speaker 2: Broken down them a Maine. James Randy he started.
[32:04] Speaker 3: He started his new five oh one C three and
[32:06] Speaker 3: he got to Bible crack a lacking, so by the
[32:10] Speaker 3: nineties he was back on TV.
[32:11] Speaker 2: The nineties Wow James eighty seven.
[32:14] Speaker 3: When he did make it, it didn't make a difference.
[32:16] Speaker 2: It's like before more incontrovertible evidence. He did not have
[32:20] Speaker 2: enough people. He only played one.
[32:22] Speaker 3: People don't like logic reason.
[32:24] Speaker 2: In fact, yo, doctor Martin Luther King said that nothing
[32:28] Speaker 2: pays people more than having to think, yeah, there it is.
[32:31] Speaker 3: So before pop Off, his ministry has targeted white people
[32:35] Speaker 3: in the South basically, and he changed gears and he
[32:39] Speaker 3: decided to go after a black audience.
[32:40] Speaker 2: No, didn't see that coming.
[32:42] Speaker 3: He bought time on b ET Black Entertainment Time.
[32:45] Speaker 2: That's kind of like the opposite of TV, like cww
[32:47] Speaker 2: B and Fox. They started the black audience, then go
[32:49] Speaker 2: to the white audience. He's like, I'll work it backwards.
[32:51] Speaker 3: He would have these like testimonials from black supporters who'd.
[32:54] Speaker 2: Been quote healed okay.
[32:56] Speaker 3: Pop Off told a reporter from GQ that the whole
[32:59] Speaker 3: Johnny Carson thing really didn't damage his reputation or his wallet.
[33:03] Speaker 3: His monthly income from the sick dipped a little, but
[33:06] Speaker 3: then it came right back up, and he apparently never
[33:10] Speaker 3: stopped doing live shows.
[33:12] Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Yeah, So the.
[33:13] Speaker 3: Washington Post, they pointed out that his EMO never changed. Quote.
[33:18] Speaker 3: In the documentary exposing his tactics, Popof is shown at
[33:21] Speaker 3: a nineteen eighty six revival meeting in California, walking up
[33:25] Speaker 3: to an elderly follower, Billy Johnson. The producers then cut
[33:29] Speaker 3: in Popoff's wife's voice, missus Billy Johnson. She wants to
[33:33] Speaker 3: get rid of her walker, his wife tells him through
[33:35] Speaker 3: the transmitter, but Popoff continues to act as if this
[33:38] Speaker 3: information Johnson's name address illness came to him spontaneously. God
[33:44] Speaker 3: is burning that arthritis out of her body, he shouts
[33:47] Speaker 3: as he tosses Johnson's walker far away over the sea
[33:50] Speaker 3: of heads. In the documentary, the producers later tracked down
[33:54] Speaker 3: Johnson and show her the image with the superimposed voice
[33:58] Speaker 3: of Popof's wife. Johnson is crushed, disillusioned. I didn't know
[34:02] Speaker 3: she was telling him those things, said Johnson, still using
[34:05] Speaker 3: her walker. That really makes me believe less in him
[34:09] Speaker 3: yet even today. Yeah, pop Up continues to show that
[34:13] Speaker 3: same original clip where he is quote healing Billy Johnson
[34:16] Speaker 3: on his late night show on b e T. The
[34:19] Speaker 3: debunked clip is part of his promo reel. So there's
[34:24] Speaker 3: that documentary that it was referenced that uses footage to
[34:28] Speaker 3: debunk him. He keeps using this original footage this guy does.
[34:31] Speaker 2: This all like for years. I mean, this is his
[34:34] Speaker 2: day job, so he has to sit there and be
[34:35] Speaker 2: around these people he does not respect or like. And
[34:38] Speaker 2: he's cunning, terrible, terrible.
[34:41] Speaker 3: By the two thousands he got into mail order healing,
[34:44] Speaker 3: slash money collecting or healing, yeah, which it appears he's
[34:48] Speaker 3: still doing to this day. I'm his main offering is
[34:52] Speaker 3: quote Miracle spring water.
[34:54] Speaker 2: Oh that stuff. Yeah, he said that.
[34:57] Speaker 3: He says that the water comes from a spring near Church.
[35:00] Speaker 2: Noble why Ukraine. And you want this remember yeah, the
[35:03] Speaker 2: nuclear melt At.
[35:05] Speaker 3: Disaster in eighty six. Peter said that the people and
[35:08] Speaker 3: the animals who drank from the spring didn't get radiation sickness,
[35:13] Speaker 3: thus it must be miracle.
[35:15] Speaker 2: Of course science. I mean, god, wait, I'm confused. What
[35:18] Speaker 2: are we doing.
[35:18] Speaker 3: It's a little bit of both. In twenty sixteen, a
[35:21] Speaker 3: GQ writer went to the Miracle Spring water distribution center
[35:25] Speaker 3: in New Jersey and he talked to an employee there
[35:29] Speaker 3: who said that the water pop off used was from
[35:31] Speaker 3: Poland springs.
[35:33] Speaker 2: Not even from the tab it just total delivery.
[35:38] Speaker 3: This is from the GQ article. Quote, Yeah, they deliver
[35:41] Speaker 3: it right here, he said. Paul's the guy who does
[35:43] Speaker 3: the deliveries. Once or twice a month. He comes for
[35:45] Speaker 3: Peter pop Off. We do thirty five gallon sized jugs
[35:49] Speaker 3: at a time, once or twice a month. One time
[35:51] Speaker 3: he came in with one hundred and thirty gallon sized jugs,
[35:54] Speaker 3: and then he said something mysterious, maybe even beautiful. I
[35:57] Speaker 3: still can't decide pop Off. He said, his own pre
[36:01] Speaker 3: blessed water in a sixteen ounce bottle to add to
[36:03] Speaker 3: all the jugs of Poland spring, so that every little
[36:06] Speaker 3: package of water contains a few molecules of holiness.
[36:09] Speaker 2: Quote.
[36:10] Speaker 3: I'm the one who pours the blessed water into the drums,
[36:13] Speaker 3: said the man with the lip rings. I measure it
[36:15] Speaker 3: out and add it to the drums. Wow, it is
[36:19] Speaker 3: so holy.
[36:20] Speaker 2: So they got basically like a you know, a bud
[36:23] Speaker 2: tender and got him to go in the back and
[36:25] Speaker 2: do like the dope growing. You're like, here, put this
[36:27] Speaker 2: cap full of this, but this is holy essence water
[36:29] Speaker 2: or whatever. It's like sure, sure, whatever, yeah, dump dump.
[36:32] Speaker 3: Dump sixteen out sprite bottle or something.
[36:34] Speaker 2: And the fact that he even send it, like the
[36:36] Speaker 2: going through these weird motions of like put it in
[36:38] Speaker 2: the holy essence water or whatever.
[36:40] Speaker 3: Then like legally you could be like, no, I added.
[36:42] Speaker 2: It in I guys, Yeah, good point.
[36:43] Speaker 3: It has how many parts per million something chernobyl water.
[36:48] Speaker 3: It should also be noted that on Peterpopoff dot org, yes,
[36:51] Speaker 3: it is very explicitly stated quote in all caps. Do
[36:55] Speaker 3: not ingest the miracle spring water.
[36:58] Speaker 2: What are you supposed to do with you?
[36:59] Speaker 6: No?
[36:59] Speaker 3: Do not talk happy fun.
[37:02] Speaker 2: But he's not stare miracle ware. Wait, there's more.
[37:07] Speaker 3: People write in, and if they send him cash, he
[37:10] Speaker 3: sends them like weird little stuff back. So the napkin
[37:15] Speaker 3: with a picture of Jesus on it that he drew,
[37:17] Speaker 3: he drew, or like he sends a little baggy with
[37:20] Speaker 3: this like white material, white crumbly stuff in it, this
[37:24] Speaker 3: miracle mann a cake? What what dried dog poop?
[37:30] Speaker 2: Or like tinsel. So he's not like recycling.
[37:33] Speaker 4: Like people send him a drawing that they did on
[37:35] Speaker 4: a nap day and he sends it to somebody else.
[37:38] Speaker 3: Like here's twenty dollars.
[37:39] Speaker 2: Here's something, Yeah, here's some in my backyard napkin?
[37:43] Speaker 3: What is a prayer napkin?
[37:45] Speaker 6: Yeah?
[37:45] Speaker 2: I don't know. There's a bottle cap I found thinking
[37:47] Speaker 2: about Jesus.
[37:48] Speaker 3: But then it's like, you know how if you buy
[37:50] Speaker 3: something online and then you're cursed to get emails from.
[37:55] Speaker 2: Les, pretend I'm you and I do this go on.
[37:59] Speaker 3: So you buy one thing, let's say, from Burpie Seeds.
[38:03] Speaker 2: Sure, and then every day you get an.
[38:04] Speaker 3: Email from Burpie Seeds telling you about some sellers.
[38:08] Speaker 2: You get that you would get so many He no,
[38:11] Speaker 2: I don't.
[38:11] Speaker 3: I shut up. I don't because I as soon as
[38:14] Speaker 3: I want to go to the bottom and I oh.
[38:16] Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Yeah, I don't do that either.
[38:18] Speaker 6: No.
[38:19] Speaker 3: So anyway, that's how he handles it. Because once you
[38:22] Speaker 3: send in some like money, are you asking letter after letters?
[38:26] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[38:27] Speaker 3: Money?
[38:27] Speaker 2: Sure? Like Democrat in twenty all.
[38:30] Speaker 3: Those text messages please. In twenty eleven, a Business Insider
[38:36] Speaker 3: reporter requested one of the miracles quote miracle spring water
[38:41] Speaker 3: and debt canceling.
[38:42] Speaker 2: Kit, debt canceling care.
[38:44] Speaker 3: So this is what they said. Quote. I tore into
[38:46] Speaker 3: the envelope hoping to find some spring water. I was
[38:49] Speaker 3: immediately disappointed. Instead of a vial of water, I received
[38:53] Speaker 3: a rambling, five page letter. It immediately became clear that
[38:57] Speaker 3: this process of getting my debts supernaturally erased was quite
[39:01] Speaker 3: complicated the letter. The letter included a long list of instructions,
[39:08] Speaker 3: which I attempted.
[39:08] Speaker 2: To follow supernaturally.
[39:10] Speaker 3: First, I added up all my debts from graduate school
[39:13] Speaker 3: and my credit mard. I placed the tally, the bills,
[39:17] Speaker 3: and my checkbook in a pile. In the morning, they're
[39:20] Speaker 3: following the directions. In the morning, I filled out a
[39:23] Speaker 3: quote prayer slip that contained a grid of ten quote
[39:27] Speaker 3: troubles I may have in addition to debt. Pop Off
[39:31] Speaker 3: promised to pray over these troubles too. I checked off
[39:34] Speaker 3: seven as instructed, including I need stronger faith and a
[39:38] Speaker 3: person causes me trouble. Finally, I wrote pop Off a check.
[39:42] Speaker 2: For twenty dollars.
[39:43] Speaker 3: This was optional, as pop Off explains in his letter, quote,
[39:47] Speaker 3: now listen, if there's no way you can send that amount,
[39:50] Speaker 3: Now send twelve dollars and let me know you'll send
[39:54] Speaker 3: the rest when God provides. I received a second letter
[39:57] Speaker 3: about two weeks later. The instructions for supernatural debt cancelation
[40:02] Speaker 3: came strangely on a yellow paper napkin. Beneath the printed
[40:07] Speaker 3: words was a line drawing of Jesus with his hands outstretched.
[40:10] Speaker 2: I just don't have the gall I mean to do
[40:12] Speaker 2: all of this that he's just there's no he has
[40:15] Speaker 2: no goll none, He's just like, ah, we live. He
[40:18] Speaker 2: has all the goll the other way he goes the
[40:20] Speaker 2: other way, He's got all the goal.
[40:21] Speaker 3: We live in a time of shamelessness. Yeah, spoiler alert,
[40:25] Speaker 3: the writer's debt was not erased. No, and he never
[40:29] Speaker 3: received any miracle water. What So, here's the Maria Duval
[40:34] Speaker 3: flashback for you please. GQ wrote that, according to a
[40:39] Speaker 3: former pop off employee whose job it was to open
[40:42] Speaker 3: the letters sent in from.
[40:43] Speaker 2: Around the country, that's a terrible job.
[40:45] Speaker 3: On her second day of work, are you having picture
[40:48] Speaker 3: at flashbacks, she counted about thirty thousand dollars in donations
[40:53] Speaker 3: in a room filled with about twenty other women doing
[40:56] Speaker 3: the same job.
[40:57] Speaker 2: Oh god.
[40:58] Speaker 3: However, the employee said that quote. The real clincher was
[41:02] Speaker 3: when they started asking for all your gold, your trinkets,
[41:05] Speaker 3: your heirlooms on the infomercials, and tubs and tubs of
[41:09] Speaker 3: gold and stones came in. They would take the stones out,
[41:12] Speaker 3: take the gold to be resold. Anything that wasn't valuable
[41:16] Speaker 3: was shredded. I'm sick, I know, I'm disgusting. Oh yeah,
[41:23] Speaker 3: welcome dark saren.
[41:25] Speaker 2: So what did Dorothy Parker say? You want to know
[41:28] Speaker 2: what God thinks about money? Look who he gave it to. Yeah.
[41:31] Speaker 3: That so, by two thousand and three, pop Off's new
[41:35] Speaker 3: organization was taking in more than nine million dollars a year.
[41:40] Speaker 3: Oh my god, Peter and Elizabeth, they were pulling in
[41:42] Speaker 3: a combined salary of more than half a million a year.
[41:46] Speaker 3: Their kids were in on it too. Their son, daughter,
[41:49] Speaker 3: son in law each made more than one.
[41:51] Speaker 2: Hundred thousand dollars a year.
[41:53] Speaker 3: They're all very righteous gemstones of that. Yes, yeah, So
[41:57] Speaker 3: by two thousand and six, his organization was making more
[42:00] Speaker 3: than thirty five million.
[42:02] Speaker 2: It's like if righteous gemstones and uncut gems ran intogether together.
[42:08] Speaker 3: He flipped Peter Popoff Ministries from a for profit business
[42:12] Speaker 3: into a religious organization, making it tax exempt.
[42:15] Speaker 2: Much.
[42:16] Speaker 3: I'm shocked you to do.
[42:16] Speaker 2: That, Yeah, I guess you can. Probably couln't forget some
[42:18] Speaker 2: other reason, like he was not allowed he was born.
[42:21] Speaker 3: He doesn't have to say now on his tax forms
[42:23] Speaker 3: where he gets his money, just saying that it's contributions, gifts, grants.
[42:27] Speaker 3: That year that he flipped over to that he took
[42:30] Speaker 3: in six hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars in compensation,
[42:35] Speaker 3: plus another forty eight grand for his role as board
[42:38] Speaker 3: member and employee of other related entities.
[42:41] Speaker 2: Sure Elizabeth made.
[42:42] Speaker 3: Over two hundred thousand dollars a year, his son made
[42:46] Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty one thousand, daughter made one hundred
[42:48] Speaker 3: and seventy six thousand dollars a year. In two thousand
[42:52] Speaker 3: and nine, Peter bought himself a Bentley taxi and in
[42:56] Speaker 3: the paperwork for it said that his monthly income was
[42:59] Speaker 3: north monthly income north of one hundred thousand dollars a
[43:03] Speaker 3: month wow. Peter and Elizabeth live in a four point
[43:08] Speaker 3: five million dollar, seventy three hundred square foot home in
[43:11] Speaker 3: a gated community in Bradbury, California, and the house is
[43:15] Speaker 3: actually oh yeah. House is actually owned by the church
[43:19] Speaker 3: tax free because it's listed as the parsonage. In twenty sixteen,
[43:24] Speaker 3: a GQ writer doing a story on pop Off went
[43:27] Speaker 3: to Texas to try and visit his church, which is
[43:30] Speaker 3: supposed to be there one Sunday morning.
[43:33] Speaker 2: Quote.
[43:33] Speaker 3: I was surprised when the address for the church I
[43:36] Speaker 3: found online took me to a storefront and an industrial park.
[43:40] Speaker 3: The parking lot was deserted and the building was locked.
[43:42] Speaker 2: There was no church.
[43:43] Speaker 3: Sign outside, and certainly no sign of a church inside.
[43:47] Speaker 3: Squinting through a window past Venetian blinds, I glimpsed a
[43:50] Speaker 3: carpeted foyer and beyond that an empty room. This didn't
[43:54] Speaker 3: look like a house of worship. It looked like a
[43:56] Speaker 3: mailing address. Later pop offs people would tell me that
[43:59] Speaker 3: the church had recently moved and it was going by
[44:02] Speaker 3: a new name now too. It's new address was just
[44:05] Speaker 3: down the road I discovered in a strip mall, different
[44:08] Speaker 3: industrial park, different so zaren, Yes, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
[44:13] Speaker 2: I hate him? I know, I know I shouldn't hate
[44:16] Speaker 2: a man of religion like this. He's not a man
[44:18] Speaker 2: of religion, all right, then I can totally hate him,
[44:22] Speaker 2: you know, Like that, I went and I got my
[44:24] Speaker 2: minister card online, you know, like I was like, I
[44:26] Speaker 2: need to marry these people. You and I are both
[44:30] Speaker 2: ordained ministers.
[44:31] Speaker 3: Right, and I've married United people in matrimony.
[44:35] Speaker 2: Totally and I did, actually quite seriously me too, relatively speaking,
[44:38] Speaker 2: you know, Like I don't mean like every day I
[44:40] Speaker 2: live like a minister. Sometimes I wear my outfits, but
[44:43] Speaker 2: other than.
[44:43] Speaker 3: That, but no, honestly, like when when asked to conduct
[44:47] Speaker 3: a ceremony, like it was a big decision for me.
[44:50] Speaker 3: Is this something that I fully believe in and fully
[44:53] Speaker 3: want to do and be a part of.
[44:54] Speaker 2: Can I provide the holiness of this or the sanctity
[44:57] Speaker 2: of this? You know?
[44:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And we.
[45:00] Speaker 4: Both think about that for something as casual as marrying
[45:02] Speaker 4: our friends. And this guy is willing to just for
[45:04] Speaker 4: decades now apparently builk these people. Yeah, and there are
[45:07] Speaker 4: people who desperately need this money, your gold or gemstones,
[45:11] Speaker 4: whatever it is that they're tanding over to them. It's
[45:15] Speaker 4: just so unfortunate. They were just like and I know that.
[45:18] Speaker 2: It's like, look, it's not apparently it's just not as
[45:20] Speaker 2: much fun to rob the wealthy like this because you
[45:23] Speaker 2: don't see these people ever. Maybe it's a challenge, but
[45:25] Speaker 2: I'm like, the wealthy are just as dumb? Is it
[45:27] Speaker 2: because there's not as many of them? Can you not
[45:29] Speaker 2: get them into a ratison ballroom?
[45:31] Speaker 3: Like?
[45:31] Speaker 2: What is it that? Why you can't go for the wealthy?
[45:34] Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't there might we be them,
[45:36] Speaker 3: There must be some Like.
[45:38] Speaker 2: With religion, they go for that all the same thing
[45:41] Speaker 2: there are, We just don't know about it. You think
[45:42] Speaker 2: they're gonna hurt you? Is that what?
[45:43] Speaker 6: It is?
[45:44] Speaker 3: Probably smarter because they go after the wealthy and they
[45:47] Speaker 3: just like we don't hear about it.
[45:48] Speaker 2: Oh the people. Oh it's like it's like that's the
[45:50] Speaker 2: pro league stuff. We're only hearing about these bush leaguers.
[45:53] Speaker 2: Good call. I didn't thought about that, dude. You are
[45:57] Speaker 2: always on that like next level gall brain.
[46:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much, you know me, galaxy brain fog, Elizabeth.
[46:05] Speaker 2: So what's your ridiculous takeaway? Elizabeth? You see why I
[46:07] Speaker 2: did that same thing as me?
[46:11] Speaker 3: No, I just I was really like I was kind
[46:14] Speaker 3: of worried when I first started looking into him, like
[46:16] Speaker 3: I don't want to attack someone, you know, and it's
[46:21] Speaker 3: like I'm not going after any religion at all, Like
[46:23] Speaker 3: I never want to do that because I said faith
[46:27] Speaker 3: is personal and I don't want to attack someone's beliefs.
[46:29] Speaker 3: But the more I read, like, the angrier I got.
[46:31] Speaker 3: And I don't like when that happens because I like
[46:33] Speaker 3: to keep it fun and light as gracious. This guy's
[46:36] Speaker 3: ridiculously terrible. You know what we need to like cleanse
[46:40] Speaker 3: this Oh I need I need of a talkback.
[46:47] Speaker 2: Dave got one, brother, Dave, I got one? Oh my god,
[47:00] Speaker 2: I went cheat.
[47:04] Speaker 5: I just wanted you. I don't know that. When Elizabeth
[47:06] Speaker 5: said in the Ceiling episode, to imagine that guy wearing
[47:09] Speaker 5: whatever you wanted to wear, like whatever makes you happy,
[47:12] Speaker 5: I absolutely imagined him wearing one of those blow up
[47:15] Speaker 5: t Rex costumes running.
[47:22] Speaker 2: That is amazing. It's so incredible.
[47:25] Speaker 3: Yes, that's what it was from now on in all
[47:28] Speaker 3: of our minds. Thank you for that.
[47:29] Speaker 2: That was perfect.
[47:33] Speaker 3: They get such a sassy walk.
[47:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, and the top work directions.
[47:39] Speaker 3: Good, let's get you one. That's it for today. You
[47:42] Speaker 3: can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com. There's
[47:46] Speaker 3: merch t shirts and sweatshirts and tote bags and umbrellas
[47:52] Speaker 3: and streamers, boots and horse saddles, work boots.
[47:55] Speaker 6: You know.
[47:56] Speaker 3: We're also at ridiculous Crime on Twitter which gut, come on,
[48:00] Speaker 3: don't do that and Instagram and Blue Sky. Email us
[48:05] Speaker 3: at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, leave a talkback
[48:08] Speaker 3: on the iHeart app and give us something leg with
[48:11] Speaker 3: the t reck oh my I'm still dying reach out.
[48:19] Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Sarah Burnette.
[48:22] Speaker 3: Produced and edited by Sweet Holy Roller Dave Cousten, starring
[48:26] Speaker 3: Annals Rutger as Judith. Research is by Skeptic in Chief
[48:31] Speaker 3: Marissa Brown. The theme song is by church organist Thomas
[48:34] Speaker 3: Lee and youth choir director Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is
[48:38] Speaker 3: provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup is
[48:41] Speaker 3: by Sparkleshot and Mister Andre. Executive producers are The Right
[48:46] Speaker 3: Reverend Ben Bolin and Father Noel.
[48:48] Speaker 6: Browns Quin Say It One More Times.
[48:59] Speaker 1: Quin Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more
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