# Have You Seen My Passport: John Stonehouse

An episode of [Ridiculous Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1608230191), 19 Jun 2025, 54 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/0b4bcc39-7ba2-453f-aaac-ae510011dd80/55de593f-5c2f-4363-8aa9-b300013fc1f8/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=3a4c50f5-ff69-4807-aa26-ae510011dd8e

An idealistic British MP had it all, until a series of bad decisions nearly destroyed his career. But that didn't stop the bad decisions, it only made them worse. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Yes, Elizabeth, how you doing? Yea doing well? How you doing?
[0:08] Speaker 2: I'm crazy you seem to have good energy. Great, I
[0:12] Speaker 2: am great. Do you know what's ridiculous?
[0:14] Speaker 3: Are you?
[0:14] Speaker 2: I was hoping you're asking me that. Yeah, you know you.
[0:17] Speaker 4: You and a lot of other people make this the
[0:19] Speaker 4: internet joke that the world's like Timeline went askew, and
[0:24] Speaker 4: David Bowie passed, sure, Okay, so I've I've heard that,
[0:27] Speaker 4: and I'm like, sure, whatever, if you guys want to
[0:29] Speaker 4: believe that.
[0:29] Speaker 2: I think that's fun, that's cute.
[0:30] Speaker 4: But yeah, I think it's interesting now because of Jimmy
[0:35] Speaker 4: Page connection with David. I didn't know about David Bowie
[0:39] Speaker 4: and Jimmy Page. You know, they're both British kind of
[0:41] Speaker 4: like esotericas weirdos and the guys who are like into
[0:44] Speaker 4: like the dark arts and things like that. Turns out
[0:48] Speaker 4: that they were. They were both into Alistair Crowley the magician,
[0:52] Speaker 4: like like low key Satanist, the wickedest man in the world,
[0:56] Speaker 4: and so apparently they were friendly in the seventies until
[1:01] Speaker 4: David Bowie became convinced that Jimmy Page and these young
[1:06] Speaker 4: women that were around him, because he was really into
[1:08] Speaker 4: like his like zoso uh under witchcraft and underage girls
[1:13] Speaker 4: and like heavy and like the dark Arts witchcraft. At
[1:15] Speaker 4: this point, so David Bowie became paranoid that Jimmy Page
[1:19] Speaker 4: and his what he called his satanic coven intended to
[1:22] Speaker 4: steal his bodily fluids, okay, so that they could use
[1:26] Speaker 4: them to make the Antichrist. Wow yeah, and so that
[1:31] Speaker 4: he didn't want to hang out. And so also it
[1:33] Speaker 4: got so bad he went full Howard Hughes and he
[1:35] Speaker 4: started keeping not just his bodily fluids, but his urine,
[1:38] Speaker 4: another bodily fluid, in his fridge for protection. I don't
[1:41] Speaker 4: know if he knows how babies are made, but David
[1:43] Speaker 4: Bowie was keeping everything that came out of him on
[1:46] Speaker 4: his own person or in his fridge so that Jimmy
[1:49] Speaker 4: Page couldn't get his hands on it or having one
[1:51] Speaker 4: of his witch's sneak hits and steal it and make
[1:53] Speaker 4: the Antichrist. So apparently David Bowie believed he had the
[1:56] Speaker 4: power in him, or Jimmy Page had the power in
[1:59] Speaker 4: him to draw out of him the ability to make prist.
[2:02] Speaker 2: So maybe by he passing he did actually skew the
[2:05] Speaker 2: world because he was that's true. Figure. So there you go.
[2:07] Speaker 2: There's some now nails for that argument. That probably is true. Yeah,
[2:11] Speaker 2: pin that up that they were, you know, trying to
[2:14] Speaker 2: be at all track. It does track. It's definitely ridiculous,
[2:17] Speaker 2: super ridiculous.
[2:19] Speaker 5: Do you want to know what else is ridiculous? Passports
[2:22] Speaker 5: understolen identities? Because you know what that never ends?
[2:25] Speaker 6: Well unfortunately, I mean sometimes.
[2:47] Speaker 5: This is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,
[2:53] Speaker 5: and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free and
[2:56] Speaker 5: one hundred percent ridiculous.
[2:58] Speaker 2: Oh, I know, I heard that. I heard that too.
[3:01] Speaker 5: I'm not going to get political here with you today.
[3:05] Speaker 5: I mean, everything is political if we're honest, but that's
[3:07] Speaker 5: not happening here. I am, though, going to talk politics.
[3:11] Speaker 2: Okay, late twentieth century.
[3:13] Speaker 5: British politics line, I know, I really am. I was
[3:16] Speaker 5: having a discussion with someone recently about true believers.
[3:19] Speaker 2: Is this person? No, I'm talking about like like the
[3:22] Speaker 2: Leslie Nopes of the world.
[3:24] Speaker 5: Yes, yes, the ones who see the political process as
[3:26] Speaker 5: this like divine, beautiful thing.
[3:28] Speaker 2: Yes, the hall monitors of the world.
[3:30] Speaker 5: Yes, the ones who put their heart into what they
[3:32] Speaker 5: see as like service and solutions.
[3:35] Speaker 2: High school vice presidents, And it used to.
[3:39] Speaker 5: Be that you could pretty honestly say that, like both
[3:42] Speaker 5: sides of political arguments wanted the same end result, just
[3:45] Speaker 5: different ways to get there. That's a true believer's mindset, right.
[3:49] Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, it's a centrist true believers mindset.
[3:51] Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think the true believer thing is very delicate.
[3:55] Speaker 5: It's hard to sustain. So, like maybe i'd say, like
[3:58] Speaker 5: Jimmy Carter is a big example of someone who held
[4:01] Speaker 5: firm in their beliefs, never never dabbled in corruption. Like
[4:06] Speaker 5: say what you will about his policies or his actions,
[4:08] Speaker 5: but like he had integrity most Yes, yeah, Well, I
[4:12] Speaker 5: mean the thing is, you can't say most having integrities
[4:15] Speaker 5: like being pregnant. Either have it or you don't. Right, Oh, okay,
[4:18] Speaker 5: so I my belief she can't just have like a
[4:21] Speaker 5: little like really, don't be a little pregnant.
[4:23] Speaker 2: You don't think you have degrees of integrity.
[4:25] Speaker 5: I think that how you do one thing is how
[4:27] Speaker 5: you do everything.
[4:28] Speaker 2: I agree with that, but I think you can have
[4:29] Speaker 2: more or less integrity. I don't know. I think it's conditional. Yeah,
[4:33] Speaker 2: it's interesting. That's an interesting spit.
[4:34] Speaker 5: That's that is corruption though it's everywhere. Yes, it's always
[4:40] Speaker 5: been the and for a lot of people, like most people,
[4:42] Speaker 5: it's just too tempting expected.
[4:45] Speaker 2: And that's how the world went exactly.
[4:47] Speaker 5: So, like you and I were recently talking about a
[4:49] Speaker 5: guy that we know who's so perfect that you think
[4:52] Speaker 5: there must be something sinister hiding in their sense. You
[4:55] Speaker 5: believe like he's smart and handsome and fit and dedicated,
[4:58] Speaker 5: like insightful and.
[4:59] Speaker 2: Fair because every is going to be a jerk and
[5:01] Speaker 2: he's not.
[5:01] Speaker 5: Yeah, he's had so many opportunities to be an a
[5:03] Speaker 5: hole along the way, this hasn't taken him yet.
[5:07] Speaker 2: Yes, specific in me.
[5:09] Speaker 5: But those those true believers, the ones we want so
[5:12] Speaker 5: badly to represent the best in us, we fall for
[5:15] Speaker 5: it almost every time. We believe in them, we support them,
[5:19] Speaker 5: we rely on them to bring us to like a
[5:21] Speaker 5: common vision, but like you know, humans, we fall short,
[5:25] Speaker 5: some more publicly than others. Yes, so I'm going to
[5:28] Speaker 5: talk to you today about a true believer, okay, with
[5:31] Speaker 5: a fall from Greece boiler alert.
[5:33] Speaker 2: I love those.
[5:34] Speaker 5: So remember a long, long, long long time ago I
[5:36] Speaker 5: told you about a drug runner who hit out for
[5:38] Speaker 5: decades in Australia.
[5:40] Speaker 2: Yes, it was a very long time. I was a
[5:42] Speaker 2: much younger man. You were a younger woman. Yes, I
[5:44] Speaker 2: can barely remember us. It was cool, was that? Yeah,
[5:46] Speaker 2: it was cool. It was cool. It was an innocent
[5:48] Speaker 2: time weeks ago.
[5:49] Speaker 5: So cool that I have another one for you. So
[5:52] Speaker 5: some of the elements are similar, but most are way different.
[5:55] Speaker 2: Oh I love that way different elements. So cool because
[5:59] Speaker 2: it's like it's Hollywood. It's the same, but different, different
[6:02] Speaker 2: crime categories.
[6:03] Speaker 5: Okay, So the guy today is John Thomas Stonehouse, Stonehouse,
[6:08] Speaker 5: John Thomas Stonehouse. He was born in nineteen twenty five
[6:11] Speaker 5: in Southampton, England.
[6:13] Speaker 2: I hear that happened.
[6:13] Speaker 5: English name, John Thomas stone House, very English. So he
[6:17] Speaker 5: was a dude as an only child, okay. And he
[6:19] Speaker 5: was brought up in a very like left leaning socialist
[6:22] Speaker 5: working class.
[6:23] Speaker 2: Family, the Hope of the stone House.
[6:24] Speaker 5: Yes, his dad was a post office engineer before he
[6:28] Speaker 5: became a dockyard engine fitter, a dockyard acting secretary of
[6:33] Speaker 5: his union, n good Maid Union. His mom was no slouch.
[6:37] Speaker 5: She started off as a scullery maid, but then she
[6:40] Speaker 5: went on to become the Mayor of Southampton a seat
[6:45] Speaker 5: on their city council.
[6:46] Speaker 2: That's serious time. She's a serious business.
[6:50] Speaker 5: She's a bouse. He was a super super smart student
[6:54] Speaker 5: and like really charming and charismatic. When he was sixteen
[6:58] Speaker 5: he joined the Labor Party. He loved his country. Sure,
[7:02] Speaker 5: he became a trainee pilot in the Royal Air Force.
[7:05] Speaker 5: That got him access to the London School of Economics.
[7:09] Speaker 5: So he studied economics there, got a degree. But he
[7:12] Speaker 5: wasn't just all about academics there, like he had a
[7:15] Speaker 5: wild side, or did he?
[7:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, he was chairman of the chess club too. I
[7:19] Speaker 2: don't know why I follow every time.
[7:21] Speaker 5: Oh, and he was also in the Labor Party society there,
[7:24] Speaker 5: so everyone knew he was going to go into politics.
[7:28] Speaker 5: And that's all he talked about, like when he wasn't
[7:30] Speaker 5: talking about chess. He wanted to be in parliament. He
[7:34] Speaker 5: was articulate, like I said earlier, charming, charismatic, perfect for
[7:38] Speaker 5: the gig.
[7:38] Speaker 2: He wanted to be an MP, an MP see american.
[7:41] Speaker 2: You know something about non American anglifier. I'm telling you.
[7:45] Speaker 5: He joined the cooperative Movement, which was like a socialist
[7:50] Speaker 5: you know, retail and finance collective.
[7:52] Speaker 2: Yes, I'm familiar.
[7:54] Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's where he met Barbara Jones Smith. He
[7:57] Speaker 5: was twenty two, she was fifteen.
[8:00] Speaker 2: Exactly, do you want to become a Stonehouse?
[8:02] Speaker 5: She was like, what's up, little girl? They got married
[8:04] Speaker 5: a year later, in nineteen forty eight.
[8:06] Speaker 2: She was sixteen.
[8:07] Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we're coming out of the warriors. I
[8:09] Speaker 5: guess she hit the age of consent whatever, you know.
[8:12] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it was a very different expectation.
[8:16] Speaker 5: Yes, So the two of them they went on on
[8:18] Speaker 5: like a socialist world tour.
[8:20] Speaker 2: Okay.
[8:21] Speaker 5: They traveled to all these youth camps across Europe, talking
[8:24] Speaker 5: to young people about their idealist vision for cooperative societal structure.
[8:29] Speaker 2: Do we still have those youth camps? Sociable?
[8:32] Speaker 5: So it was like lefty network, like, you know, and
[8:36] Speaker 5: what goes on at the socialist youth camps?
[8:38] Speaker 2: I think we both know, Yeah, It'soresoresbeth.
[8:44] Speaker 5: In nineteen fifty two, the two of them moved to Uganda.
[8:47] Speaker 5: Whoa yeah, So for two years Stonehouse managed the Ugandan
[8:52] Speaker 5: Cooperative Society and when his time there was done, the
[8:55] Speaker 5: couple moved back to England and he was like stoked
[8:59] Speaker 5: on the possibility that he'd crafted with fellow socialists all
[9:02] Speaker 5: across the globe.
[9:03] Speaker 2: I bet sounds like he's got a strong network. Yeah.
[9:05] Speaker 5: And so he and his wife they didn't have a shilling,
[9:08] Speaker 5: just dreams. Baby, I was gonna say he didn't have
[9:10] Speaker 5: a you know, a dime, like of course. Yeah, so
[9:15] Speaker 5: Stonehouse he knew what he had to do, what he
[9:17] Speaker 5: had to do. He ran for.
[9:18] Speaker 2: Office, finally get in there.
[9:20] Speaker 5: He was like working all these odd jobs to survive.
[9:22] Speaker 5: You know, he got to put pudding on the table totally,
[9:25] Speaker 5: but his eyes, eyes were on the prize. In nineteen
[9:30] Speaker 5: fifty seven he got elected as Labor and person time
[9:33] Speaker 5: for Weinsbury. Now he lost the first time Weinsbury. Later
[9:37] Speaker 5: there was like some boundary changes and that became walls
[9:40] Speaker 5: all north.
[9:40] Speaker 2: Okay, I believe he's like a rising star.
[9:44] Speaker 5: He has a beautiful wife, three kids. He's tall. Look
[9:48] Speaker 5: at that dude, tall guy, handsome.
[9:50] Speaker 2: He said he was in politics.
[9:51] Speaker 5: I got articulate, impeccably dressed.
[9:54] Speaker 2: So here's the guy. Everyone's like, wow, how does he exist?
[9:57] Speaker 5: How does he has all these chances to be in
[9:58] Speaker 5: a hole. Yeah. So and people are like, you know what,
[10:02] Speaker 5: that guy. One day he's going to be Prime minister.
[10:04] Speaker 2: Oh for really he was tall. They're like, I'm going
[10:07] Speaker 2: to hang my hope.
[10:08] Speaker 5: He's like eight foot six, hang my hopes on this,
[10:12] Speaker 5: this this sucker, this long drink in my future. He
[10:17] Speaker 5: as a member of Parliament, he distinguished himself.
[10:20] Speaker 4: Okay, speeches, well he's so well spoken, eloquent speech about
[10:25] Speaker 4: white Man.
[10:26] Speaker 5: Sorry, he had these eloquent speeches and he was like, therefore.
[10:32] Speaker 2: Insummation and he was like, oh my god.
[10:36] Speaker 5: He advocated for development aid and like Commonwealth trade.
[10:40] Speaker 2: He's like, therefore trade. They never heard anything like this.
[10:48] Speaker 2: He spoke out about the British presence in Kenya. Oh yeah,
[10:53] Speaker 2: he was like the mau mouse. That was the thing.
[10:56] Speaker 5: Not good.
[10:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like it. Look at that. They're getting mad.
[10:59] Speaker 5: And like a really elegant way.
[11:01] Speaker 2: Therefore he went to Oxford, where for wis you know
[11:04] Speaker 2: who's in what sees? So he bibbity babbadi boo.
[11:11] Speaker 5: He quickly rose through party ranks. In February of nineteen
[11:14] Speaker 5: fifty nine, Stonehouse went to Rhodesia on a fact finding
[11:20] Speaker 5: tours roads. He's like, there are facts there and I'm
[11:24] Speaker 5: going to find them.
[11:25] Speaker 2: They ain't gonna be one Da Navid.
[11:27] Speaker 5: So while he's there, he condemned the white minority government
[11:31] Speaker 5: of Southernrhodesia which is now Zimbabwe.
[11:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all they had, Yeah, from one man's gave.
[11:37] Speaker 5: This speech to Southern Rhodesia African National Congress and he
[11:41] Speaker 5: like was in there talking rallying indigenous Rhodesians to stand
[11:45] Speaker 5: up for their rights against the white minority. And he's like,
[11:48] Speaker 5: you know what, the British Labor Party fully supports you
[11:51] Speaker 5: in that. And that didn't go over so well. He
[11:55] Speaker 5: was immediately deported, banned from the country. They're like, and
[12:02] Speaker 5: stay out of the walls.
[12:03] Speaker 2: We support what, we don't even support you. No more,
[12:06] Speaker 2: out of there.
[12:07] Speaker 5: So then he comes back right and he gets another
[12:10] Speaker 5: government gig. He's a junior Minister of Aviation.
[12:13] Speaker 2: They let him back. Here take a baby fly boy,
[12:15] Speaker 2: why not.
[12:16] Speaker 5: Yeah, he fought for the government to buy British made planes.
[12:20] Speaker 2: That someone else is like, no French place, but they.
[12:22] Speaker 5: Went with Boeing seven oh seven out of the US
[12:25] Speaker 5: of a USA.
[12:27] Speaker 3: You know.
[12:28] Speaker 5: He was like, no, make get the little like you know, MG.
[12:34] Speaker 5: Mosquito that we made, I don't know what. And he's
[12:37] Speaker 5: like he like talks smack on his colleagues in the office,
[12:40] Speaker 5: like kind of insinuating that they were on the take
[12:43] Speaker 5: to get these boeings. He later became the Minister of Technology.
[12:48] Speaker 5: Oh that's a great title. Sure. March of nineteen sixty
[12:51] Speaker 5: eight he put together this technology cooperation between Britain and Czechoslovakia.
[12:56] Speaker 4: Was this because he made so much noise about planes
[12:58] Speaker 4: or like, fine, you can be minished something else.
[13:01] Speaker 5: I don't want to out here, And he's like there,
[13:05] Speaker 5: he's like he organizes for this exchange of like specialists
[13:08] Speaker 5: and information research facilities network between Britain and Czechoslovakia. Later
[13:15] Speaker 5: that year he moves on up. He becomes Postmaster General.
[13:20] Speaker 2: I guess that's a move up.
[13:22] Speaker 5: He put him in charge of the General post Office,
[13:25] Speaker 5: which at the time managed the British telephone and postal systems.
[13:29] Speaker 2: All right, and posts at networking. Here's the biggest networks.
[13:33] Speaker 5: But have exactly and like people can go pay their
[13:35] Speaker 5: bills there, let's do this stonehouse. He got credited with
[13:38] Speaker 5: like all this modernization efforts, but he really wasn't like
[13:42] Speaker 5: a barn burner, renegade, maverick whatever.
[13:45] Speaker 4: No, No, this man born in the nineteen twenties, was
[13:47] Speaker 4: not a great with the technology.
[13:50] Speaker 5: He was like, you know what, AI is the future
[13:52] Speaker 5: and they're like shut up, Grandpa. So Stonehouse ambitious but
[13:58] Speaker 5: also kind of restless, like he he just he didn't
[14:02] Speaker 5: want just political power. He at this point he wants money.
[14:05] Speaker 2: Oh he's never gotten. Yeah, He's like, I was wrong.
[14:09] Speaker 5: He's like, I kind of like being rich.
[14:11] Speaker 2: I love Yeah, I was. I was ever around them.
[14:14] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[14:15] Speaker 5: I would love you know, like collective actions. But like
[14:17] Speaker 5: I also, these suits are really.
[14:20] Speaker 2: Choice with one my one wild life, I would like
[14:22] Speaker 2: find fabrics. Political power and money kind of go hand
[14:25] Speaker 2: in hand once you're around donors and you see what
[14:27] Speaker 2: they have. Look, can't that be me?
[14:30] Speaker 5: So many politicians of every single stripe, every kind, they
[14:34] Speaker 5: start out as like one of the common folk. I'm
[14:36] Speaker 5: like a worker or whatever, and then suddenly they're millionaires.
[14:40] Speaker 5: It's like consulting, gigs, insider trading, speaker fees, Harlan crow,
[14:44] Speaker 5: whatever it is. They get that money, right, they get it.
[14:48] Speaker 5: So in pursuit of wealth and prestige, Stonehouse started like
[14:52] Speaker 5: dabbling in business ventures. So by the late sixties, he'd
[14:56] Speaker 5: founded multiple companies in Bangladesh, which was then East Pakistan
[15:01] Speaker 5: and the Caribbean. And these weren't like basket making companies
[15:05] Speaker 5: like companies. No, they were export companies, which means they
[15:10] Speaker 5: were actually shell companies used to shuffle money around in
[15:13] Speaker 5: all these like complex, suspicious ways. So rumors started swirling
[15:18] Speaker 5: about his improper financial dealings, and then it got super sticky.
[15:23] Speaker 5: A defector from communist Czechoslovakia.
[15:26] Speaker 2: Oh no, oh no.
[15:27] Speaker 5: And in nineteen sixty nine he said that the Czechs
[15:30] Speaker 5: had recruited Stonehouse as an informer.
[15:33] Speaker 2: He's like, he's a spy, oh yike. And and for
[15:36] Speaker 2: the Labor Party that's always a damn.
[15:38] Speaker 5: Nation, right exactly. So Stonehouse he denies everything. He begged
[15:43] Speaker 5: the Prime Minister Harold Wilson, I.
[15:45] Speaker 2: Was a socialist. Look at me, I got all these
[15:50] Speaker 2: shell companies. I'm exploiting the banglades. How much more of
[15:54] Speaker 2: a capitalist I got to be?
[15:56] Speaker 5: He's like, Harold, please, I'm innocent. He said the claims
[15:59] Speaker 5: were based. Harold Wilson prime Minister believed him. He was like, okay,
[16:05] Speaker 5: so these sort of accusations they popped up, like you're
[16:08] Speaker 5: saying with the Labor Party, and they popped up a
[16:10] Speaker 5: lot during the Cold War.
[16:12] Speaker 2: There's a bunch of Soviet Union spies in this are
[16:16] Speaker 2: most of.
[16:16] Speaker 5: The most of the accusations were baseless because it was
[16:18] Speaker 5: easy to like erode trust with it. Yoh yeah, but
[16:24] Speaker 5: it worked. The erosion works. Stonehouses political reputation totally damaged.
[16:29] Speaker 5: So the Labor Party lost the nineteen seventy general election
[16:32] Speaker 5: and there was no seat for him on the opposition
[16:35] Speaker 5: front bench, a major defeat for him. And like you know,
[16:39] Speaker 5: this was his identity is personality, and he's this wreck
[16:43] Speaker 5: when this happens. So luckily he had something else to
[16:46] Speaker 5: occupy his time chess business and chess, you know, the
[16:51] Speaker 5: export services, right, remember one.
[16:54] Speaker 2: Of his global wealth go on, Well.
[16:57] Speaker 5: One of his businesses was in Bangladesh, like you were
[16:59] Speaker 5: saying in nineteen seventy one, their Bangladesh is in this
[17:02] Speaker 5: brutal fight for independence from Pakistan and.
[17:05] Speaker 2: That crazy flood.
[17:06] Speaker 5: Yes, Stonehouse's instincts to fight for the underdog and what
[17:10] Speaker 5: was right were like rekindled. He got super involved in
[17:14] Speaker 5: the Bengali cause, oh wow, and like deeply invested in
[17:18] Speaker 5: their victory and their agency, and the people loved him
[17:21] Speaker 5: for it. When the war ended in Bangladesh and won
[17:24] Speaker 5: its independence. Stone House was made a citizen of the
[17:27] Speaker 5: new State of Bangladesh, who honorary Bengali.
[17:30] Speaker 2: He was real. Oh yeah.
[17:31] Speaker 5: He helped the people set up the British Bangladesh Trust
[17:35] Speaker 5: and that was a bank that would provide services for
[17:37] Speaker 5: Bengali people in Britain. But it was structured and operated
[17:40] Speaker 5: in kind of a shady way.
[17:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[17:43] Speaker 5: So the press they started digging into it, and pretty
[17:45] Speaker 5: soon so did investors from the fraud squad and the
[17:49] Speaker 5: Department of Trade and Industry in London. Oh so like bye,
[17:52] Speaker 5: so long investors. The pressures are mounting. His business empire
[17:56] Speaker 5: is like teetering towards collapse. He's being screwtined by auditors,
[18:01] Speaker 5: fraud investigation, like peeking around the corner. He once again,
[18:06] Speaker 5: he's looked down on. He's out of a job, super bummed.
[18:09] Speaker 5: He's in a bad place.
[18:10] Speaker 2: Yes, a dear moment.
[18:12] Speaker 5: Let's take a break, put on a cupa, let's put
[18:15] Speaker 5: on a cuppa. Let's gather ourselves and carry on and whatnot.
[18:20] Speaker 5: And when we return more Stonehouse, Stonehouse, Zaren John Stonehouse.
[18:45] Speaker 4: But before you get into that, you know that that
[18:47] Speaker 4: whole thing about keep calm and carry on the British
[18:50] Speaker 4: tradition from like World War two. I was young and
[18:53] Speaker 4: I misread it. I thought it was keep clams and
[18:55] Speaker 4: carry on. So I've got this storehouse of clams where I.
[18:59] Speaker 2: Can move something that smell. That's what that is. Storehouse,
[19:04] Speaker 2: my bushels of plans. I'm carrying on.
[19:06] Speaker 5: Well, you know, you could start an export business.
[19:09] Speaker 2: Good point, like John Stonehouse, carry.
[19:11] Speaker 5: On, He's a stone House. Let it know, Okay.
[19:16] Speaker 2: So we followed this.
[19:17] Speaker 5: Chap from his humble beginnings meteoric rise in the British
[19:21] Speaker 5: government to his freedom fighting, somewhat shady business dealing.
[19:26] Speaker 2: Yes, getting involved in Bangladeshi liberation.
[19:29] Speaker 5: Politics, accusation of being a spy for the Czecho Slava.
[19:32] Speaker 2: Throw that in there for fun. The world's most interesting.
[19:36] Speaker 5: Much debate about whether that was true or not. So
[19:38] Speaker 5: there's this historian from Cambridge, Professor Christopher Andrew two first names.
[19:44] Speaker 5: He's one of the few people who were able to
[19:47] Speaker 5: see them I five file on Stonehouse, and he literally
[19:53] Speaker 5: then went on to write the book on m I five.
[19:55] Speaker 5: This book in two thousand and nine, The Defense of
[19:57] Speaker 5: the Realm, The Authorized History of m I five and
[20:00] Speaker 5: he shared a lot of those documents there. He said
[20:02] Speaker 5: that Stonehouse one hundred percent spied for the Czecho Slade.
[20:07] Speaker 5: I feel like that's a solid case for it. If
[20:09] Speaker 5: he says that, and it's in the files.
[20:11] Speaker 2: I think we can put the case to bed now.
[20:13] Speaker 5: Julian Hayes Stonehouse is great, a grand nephew. He wrote
[20:17] Speaker 5: a book Stonehouse Cabinet Minister, Fraudster, Spy. He told The
[20:23] Speaker 5: Guardian a Czech agent befriended him and he worked on
[20:26] Speaker 5: him over lunches and dinners. If they'd said, John, we'd
[20:30] Speaker 5: like you to spy for us, he'd have said no.
[20:32] Speaker 5: But a slow, insidious, step by step persuasion to cooperate worked.
[20:37] Speaker 5: He was not a spy in the sense of James
[20:39] Speaker 5: Bond or the novels of John lecre but he provided
[20:43] Speaker 5: the checks with information and got a lot of money
[20:46] Speaker 5: from them.
[20:47] Speaker 2: He knew what he was doing.
[20:48] Speaker 4: I would love it if it was like he sits
[20:50] Speaker 4: down to like lunch the first time and they're like,
[20:52] Speaker 4: we'd like you to spy for you.
[20:53] Speaker 2: He's like, right here, I love you exactly.
[20:56] Speaker 5: Actually, like they worked each other because you know whatever.
[21:00] Speaker 5: By nineteen seventy four, his situation totally desperate. He was
[21:05] Speaker 5: having an affair with his secretary. Oh no, yeah, that's again.
[21:09] Speaker 2: His political career stall gone much well.
[21:12] Speaker 5: He'd been recently re elected are tors I'm not kidding you.
[21:19] Speaker 2: He he him.
[21:25] Speaker 5: Terrible MP for Walsall North constituency. But he was like
[21:29] Speaker 5: never ever going to get higher than that. His companies
[21:32] Speaker 5: are unraveling under a web of debt and all this
[21:34] Speaker 5: messed up accounting. According to the Australian Broadcast Corporation Quote,
[21:39] Speaker 5: a wine company that he owned called Connoisseurs of Claret
[21:43] Speaker 5: Limited had lost more than one hundred thousand US dollars
[21:48] Speaker 5: equivalent to more than a million today in a single year.
[21:51] Speaker 5: Another of his businesses, a trading company Global Imax, was
[21:55] Speaker 5: forced to close its office in Bangladesh and the managing
[21:58] Speaker 5: director resigned, claiming he was owned money. But it was
[22:02] Speaker 5: a quasi bank called London Capital Group LCG, which John
[22:06] Speaker 5: had started two years earlier in the hopes of cashing
[22:09] Speaker 5: in on a property boom that appeared to be in
[22:11] Speaker 5: the most difficulty. Attracting investors and customers to LCG had
[22:16] Speaker 5: proved trickier than first thought, and John had eventually resorted
[22:19] Speaker 5: to deceptive creative accounting to keep the business afloat that
[22:24] Speaker 5: eventually attracted the attention of the Department of Trade and
[22:27] Speaker 5: Industry in Scotland. Yard According to The New York Times,
[22:30] Speaker 5: Stonehouse had set up twenty four accounts at seventeen banks
[22:34] Speaker 5: and past checks involving hundreds of thousands of pounds.
[22:38] Speaker 2: Damn, So seventeen banks and he's just doing all this
[22:41] Speaker 2: on paper with checks, yes, tiding it around, hiding it around.
[22:45] Speaker 5: So he's like facing exposure, possible prosecution.
[22:49] Speaker 4: His one man Ponzi scheme is about to come undone.
[22:52] Speaker 4: I'm my own investor.
[22:53] Speaker 2: From what do you do?
[22:54] Speaker 5: He devised an audacious plan. What is that He's going
[22:57] Speaker 5: to fake his own desk, assume a new identity, escaped
[23:01] Speaker 5: the law public disgrace. Okay, So sometime around nineteen seventy.
[23:05] Speaker 2: That he's going to take his affair with him. Oh yeah,
[23:08] Speaker 2: I love it. I love it.
[23:11] Speaker 5: He gets the name of a constituent who had recently died.
[23:14] Speaker 2: Oh my god, Joseph Arthur Markham.
[23:17] Speaker 5: They're about the same age, right, So Stonehouse took Markham's
[23:21] Speaker 5: information and got himself like from.
[23:24] Speaker 2: His wife, Like, did he go to the family was like.
[23:26] Speaker 5: I need the birth certificate, and then he created a
[23:29] Speaker 5: whole story for this guy. The actual Markham was a
[23:32] Speaker 5: foundry worker, and new Markham, he's the invented version, was
[23:37] Speaker 5: an international business.
[23:39] Speaker 2: He owns the foundry. Yes, he was.
[23:41] Speaker 5: An export consultant and he had bank accounts in London, Switzerland, Australia.
[23:46] Speaker 5: But like one fake identity wasn't enough. He got intel
[23:50] Speaker 5: on another local man who just died, Donald Clive mildoone
[23:55] Speaker 5: like the name. Yeah, So Stonehouse took the money he
[23:58] Speaker 5: had in the shell corporations and various shady accounts and
[24:01] Speaker 5: he moved it all into accounts in these guys' names.
[24:04] Speaker 5: So yeah, and he had sort of like a psychiatric break.
[24:07] Speaker 5: He'd go about his days as Markham. And the character
[24:11] Speaker 5: he created was this honest man, like a quiet guy, private,
[24:16] Speaker 5: almost who he wished he had been.
[24:18] Speaker 2: Oh interesting, like the chess grand Master.
[24:21] Speaker 6: Got to an.
[24:21] Speaker 5: Interesting experiment like creating an identity of who you wished
[24:24] Speaker 5: you'd been, or who you could have been but opted
[24:27] Speaker 5: not to be totally.
[24:29] Speaker 2: We call that acting.
[24:29] Speaker 5: And yeah, and he just drives it around town.
[24:33] Speaker 4: When people do that in their real life, it's a
[24:35] Speaker 4: very interesting psychological almost experiment.
[24:38] Speaker 2: Yes, and that's that's what he's doing.
[24:39] Speaker 5: So he's going around as good boy Markham and it's
[24:43] Speaker 5: really reducing his anxiety. It's calming him down to be
[24:46] Speaker 5: this other person for him, and it made him really
[24:49] Speaker 5: hate john Stonehouse like a lot.
[24:53] Speaker 2: So he went the other way with Yes.
[24:54] Speaker 4: Usually people reside in their one identity and they feel
[24:57] Speaker 4: the guilt and the shame because they know they aren't
[24:59] Speaker 4: what they're presenting and getting away with.
[25:01] Speaker 2: Right, he does the other one. He invested in himself,
[25:03] Speaker 2: in his future, his new self, and then it's like,
[25:05] Speaker 2: you know who's real jerk? Me me, I can't stand
[25:09] Speaker 2: that guy.
[25:09] Speaker 5: So he decided that his wife had his family and
[25:11] Speaker 5: his friends and the British people, I'll be better off
[25:15] Speaker 5: without john Stonehouse.
[25:17] Speaker 2: But he didn't want to end his life ritualistically.
[25:20] Speaker 5: Yeah, he decided to end Stonehouse and move full time
[25:23] Speaker 5: into Markham.
[25:24] Speaker 2: This is like a psychological that I'm telling you.
[25:26] Speaker 4: It's like you know they do like, oh, we're going
[25:27] Speaker 4: to do an encounter therapy kind of thing.
[25:29] Speaker 2: Yes, it is like one of those severe versions of therapy.
[25:32] Speaker 2: Let's do it, let's let's each do it anyway, change
[25:35] Speaker 2: her names, start a new podcast with new names.
[25:38] Speaker 5: He had his wife set up these like.
[25:40] Speaker 4: New podcast one to get there.
[25:45] Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like it was climbing up like my
[25:48] Speaker 5: neck to get into my ear. Like wait, don't forget
[25:51] Speaker 5: about like imagine this.
[25:54] Speaker 2: Like a better fun.
[25:58] Speaker 4: Like a Japanese calligrapher where they become a master and
[26:01] Speaker 4: they change their names.
[26:02] Speaker 2: I can do it all over again. Yeah, exactly.
[26:05] Speaker 5: So he and his wife set up some like huge
[26:08] Speaker 5: life insurance policies for him and the kids, and I
[26:10] Speaker 5: feel like that's always a red flag request.
[26:13] Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, policies were.
[26:15] Speaker 5: Worth around like two hundred thousand US dollars at the time,
[26:18] Speaker 5: which is like one point five million today.
[26:20] Speaker 2: Wow.
[26:21] Speaker 5: I don't know if he told her to get one
[26:23] Speaker 5: for like yourself too, So I don't know what's worse,
[26:26] Speaker 5: get one for yourself too, or like and watch your back,
[26:30] Speaker 5: or like be left out and behind we're all gonna die.
[26:33] Speaker 2: You don't need one, won't You won't be here to
[26:36] Speaker 2: spend it.
[26:37] Speaker 5: Barbara Stonehouse, the wife. She later said that she didn't
[26:42] Speaker 5: know anything about his plans to become someone else.
[26:44] Speaker 2: Do you believe?
[26:45] Speaker 5: Uh? Yeah I do?
[26:47] Speaker 2: I trust you read see they like she said that they.
[26:50] Speaker 5: Opted for the policies because of the IRA, the Irish
[26:54] Speaker 5: Republican Army. Yeah, so that there. I mean, this is
[26:57] Speaker 5: in the middle of the troubles. Their head was snapping
[27:00] Speaker 5: threats against his kids and lots of bomb threats and
[27:04] Speaker 5: then like actual bombs. This car got blowed up.
[27:07] Speaker 2: Oh, I think it all the way back and the.
[27:09] Speaker 5: Cops sound a bomb planted in the house directly next
[27:12] Speaker 5: to their place.
[27:13] Speaker 2: I thought he was being like dramatic, like, you know,
[27:15] Speaker 2: I've got the troubles now, what.
[27:16] Speaker 5: Do you think that adds to the stress too. Hell yeah,
[27:18] Speaker 5: so there may be some truths you're sitting.
[27:23] Speaker 2: I'll try you.
[27:26] Speaker 5: So Stonehouse. He went on with his days. He didn't
[27:29] Speaker 5: let on that he was planning to assume a new identity.
[27:32] Speaker 5: He traveled to Miami for business with an old barrister
[27:35] Speaker 5: friend of his, James Overton.
[27:37] Speaker 2: Charlton, Wow, how did they make them minds?
[27:40] Speaker 5: They were there to meet up with some American bankers,
[27:42] Speaker 5: you know, chat about a business.
[27:44] Speaker 2: Opportunity chatting Greg. Yeah, I want you just.
[27:49] Speaker 5: Picture It's November twentieth, nineteen seventy four. You're sitting in
[27:56] Speaker 5: a hotel restaurant in Miami, Florida. You and the businessmen
[28:00] Speaker 5: from an investment bank are sipping cocktails waiting for your
[28:03] Speaker 5: friend and associate, John's Stonehouse to arrive at dinner. You
[28:07] Speaker 5: Zarin are James Overton Charlton. You tap a swizzle stick
[28:12] Speaker 5: against the glass containing your gin and tonic. Beads of
[28:15] Speaker 5: water slowly roll down the sides and pool on the
[28:17] Speaker 5: white tablecloth below.
[28:19] Speaker 2: You check your watch.
[28:21] Speaker 5: Stonehouse is usually very punctual, so this is a bit odd.
[28:24] Speaker 5: He's thirty minutes late. The bankers are getting restless as
[28:27] Speaker 5: you get up once more to use the phone at
[28:29] Speaker 5: the maitre d stand to call up to his hotel room.
[28:32] Speaker 5: You dial his room number and wait. It rings and rings,
[28:35] Speaker 5: no answer. You head back to the table and excuse yourself,
[28:38] Speaker 5: explaining that you're going to go check and make sure
[28:40] Speaker 5: your friend is okay. You tell the gentlemen to go
[28:42] Speaker 5: ahead and order for themselves, enjoy their dinner. It'll be
[28:45] Speaker 5: on you.
[28:46] Speaker 2: They demure and opt to leave, telling.
[28:48] Speaker 5: You they'll be in touch tomorrow. They hope John's okay.
[28:51] Speaker 5: You agree and walk with them toward the lobby. At
[28:54] Speaker 5: the front desk, you ask for someone to come up
[28:56] Speaker 5: to the room with you to open it up. You'd
[28:58] Speaker 5: like to perform a wellness check. The manager agrees and
[29:01] Speaker 5: grabs a security guard. The three of you take a
[29:03] Speaker 5: silent ride up to the room together in the elevator.
[29:06] Speaker 5: The Musaic's saucily samba ing out a wordless tune. You
[29:11] Speaker 5: arrive in front of the room, and the security guard
[29:13] Speaker 5: flips through a large loop of keys. Your stomach is
[29:16] Speaker 5: in knots. Life has been troubling for John lately. He's
[29:19] Speaker 5: been dealt a number of bad hands. As the way
[29:21] Speaker 5: you'd put it, you have seen the toll, the scandals
[29:25] Speaker 5: and setbacks have taken on him, the pressure he's under.
[29:28] Speaker 5: You worry that either he's been stricken down by a
[29:30] Speaker 5: massive heart attack courtesy of the stress he's under, or
[29:33] Speaker 5: even worse what you truly dread and slightly suspect that
[29:36] Speaker 5: he's done himself harm. The security guard gets the correct
[29:40] Speaker 5: key and opens the door to the suite. It's silent, John,
[29:44] Speaker 5: You call you, and the manager and the guard enter
[29:46] Speaker 5: the room. Everything looks normal. A jacket draped over a chair,
[29:50] Speaker 5: jeans and a crumpled heap next to his suitcase, dress
[29:54] Speaker 5: shirts hanging in the closet, His toiletry bag on the
[29:56] Speaker 5: counter in the bathroom. You walk over to the nightstand.
[30:00] Speaker 5: The only sound in the room is the crackle of
[30:02] Speaker 5: the security guard's walkie talkie. The manager stands at the
[30:05] Speaker 5: door of the room with his hands clasped behind his back.
[30:08] Speaker 5: You look down at the bedside table and you see
[30:10] Speaker 5: John's passport and his watch, plus a stack of one
[30:13] Speaker 5: hundred dollars bills, eight of them, and some travelers.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Checks where was John.
[30:18] Speaker 5: The three of you head down to the lobby where
[30:20] Speaker 5: you asked the manager to call the police. Your friend
[30:24] Speaker 5: has vanished.
[30:26] Speaker 2: Aaron so sad. I'm broken up a stone house. He's
[30:30] Speaker 2: nowhere to be found.
[30:31] Speaker 4: I was like waiting for that to be like the
[30:32] Speaker 4: open sliding glass door onto the balcony and like the yeah,
[30:38] Speaker 4: they all look out. Yeah, but that like you went
[30:41] Speaker 4: into the ocean, and you'd have to have like an
[30:42] Speaker 4: ocean or somebody.
[30:43] Speaker 5: But he wouldn't be able to collect insurance on him
[30:46] Speaker 5: if that's the case, if he jumped from the balcony.
[30:50] Speaker 6: Yeah.
[30:50] Speaker 2: So I'm not good at this.
[30:52] Speaker 5: I am so stone House can't find him. There were
[30:55] Speaker 5: some people who said they saw him in the afternoon
[30:58] Speaker 5: of the dinner on Miami Beach, and they said he
[31:01] Speaker 5: was like wearing swim trunks and a handsome fellow, and
[31:04] Speaker 5: he headed They saw him head out into the water,
[31:06] Speaker 5: and so they searched the beach authorities. They found his
[31:09] Speaker 5: clothes like these nice trousers and a shirt, very neatly
[31:12] Speaker 5: folded in the corner of a beach hut, and so
[31:15] Speaker 5: it looked to everyone like Stonehouse had drowned. He went
[31:19] Speaker 5: to Davy Jones's locker.
[31:20] Speaker 2: He like that the Australian Prime Minister who went swimming
[31:23] Speaker 2: out to and they never went out into the brainy deep.
[31:26] Speaker 2: They're like, why we should teach these guys to swim. Exactly,
[31:29] Speaker 2: you should try it.
[31:30] Speaker 5: So now he's like assumed dead. So news organizations they
[31:34] Speaker 5: ran obituaries. There was no body, but that didn't mean anything,
[31:37] Speaker 5: like you could have been washed out to sea, but
[31:40] Speaker 5: not really so, according to the ABC quote, when his
[31:43] Speaker 5: body failed to wash up after seventy eight hours, police
[31:46] Speaker 5: became suspicious. Normally, those who drowned at sea were discovered
[31:50] Speaker 5: within a couple of days, but there was no trace
[31:52] Speaker 5: of Stonehouse anywhere. They began to suspect foul play, and
[31:56] Speaker 5: a new working theory emerged that John Stonehouse was still alive,
[32:01] Speaker 5: possibly being held prisoner by gangs. The theory was given
[32:05] Speaker 5: more prominence when Miami police found traces of blood and
[32:08] Speaker 5: hair inside a quote concrete overcoat, a signature method of
[32:12] Speaker 5: mafia burials.
[32:14] Speaker 2: Ah so they're like, oh.
[32:16] Speaker 5: The cement shoes Chicago. Yeah yeah, yeah, so like the
[32:20] Speaker 5: mob captured him, tickled him, tortured him, and then put
[32:25] Speaker 5: him in cement through.
[32:26] Speaker 2: Fatal tickle fight.
[32:27] Speaker 5: Yeah, they're like, he got got by the mob.
[32:29] Speaker 4: This is actually a lot of good news for those
[32:31] Speaker 4: of us who have dreams about being tossed over aboard
[32:34] Speaker 4: of a boat that because they were a jerk to
[32:35] Speaker 4: somebody who.
[32:36] Speaker 2: Owned a boat. They're going, Wow, I'm in the Caribbean.
[32:38] Speaker 2: What am I going to do? And all the white
[32:39] Speaker 2: tip reef sharks are gonna eat me. Apparently that doesn't
[32:42] Speaker 2: happen because the authorities are assuming you're gonna get hit,
[32:45] Speaker 2: You're going to reach the shore within two three days.
[32:47] Speaker 2: All you got to do is stay float for.
[32:49] Speaker 5: I think they're saying that, like it's the body just
[32:51] Speaker 5: I guess if you float, Like.
[32:52] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking at least there's a chances I can.
[32:54] Speaker 5: Know you know what it could just you know, next
[32:57] Speaker 5: time it happens, or.
[32:57] Speaker 2: At least part of me will make it, part of
[32:59] Speaker 2: part of you make.
[33:00] Speaker 5: It to the bottom line. People thought he was dead,
[33:05] Speaker 5: so Barbara, she's like grieving. Parliament mourned his constituency, prepared for.
[33:11] Speaker 2: Like a special election. But Sarah Stonehouse wasn't dead.
[33:15] Speaker 5: No, we figured that let's take a break, let's hydrate,
[33:19] Speaker 5: let's stretch, and when we finally make it back and
[33:22] Speaker 5: we're reunited, I'll tell you about where Stonehouse took his
[33:24] Speaker 5: little narrow English behind.
[33:47] Speaker 2: All right, here we are Stonehouse, Stonehouse.
[33:49] Speaker 5: The last we heard from John Stonehouse, he was dejected,
[33:54] Speaker 5: desponded in Miami home business, goes for dip, gets around,
[34:02] Speaker 5: or maybe he crossed the mob and they put him
[34:03] Speaker 5: in the water for good. There's that too, Yeah, But
[34:06] Speaker 5: to the world barrel, he's ded dead due So like judge,
[34:11] Speaker 5: you know what, we.
[34:12] Speaker 2: Know better than that. We're smarter than that, skeptics both.
[34:15] Speaker 5: I also told you up top that I was going
[34:17] Speaker 5: to tell you a story about a guy who faked
[34:18] Speaker 5: the spoiler alert little too late, too fast, too furious
[34:24] Speaker 5: on that one. So now people, you did really see
[34:27] Speaker 5: him head out for a swim that faithful day, Yes,
[34:30] Speaker 5: did they, but he actually, yeah, he actually swam down
[34:32] Speaker 5: the beach aways and he got out of the water
[34:34] Speaker 5: in front of a neighboring hotel, and it was there
[34:37] Speaker 5: that he'd previously stashed some clothes, money, and his prized possession,
[34:42] Speaker 5: the Joseph Markham passport.
[34:44] Speaker 6: Ah.
[34:45] Speaker 5: So he gets dried off, cleaned up, goes into the
[34:49] Speaker 5: other hotel, grabs a cab, goes to the Miami.
[34:51] Speaker 2: Airport, hoping that no one will remember him.
[34:53] Speaker 5: Yeah, and he had previously stashed a full suitcase and
[34:57] Speaker 5: a briefcase full of phony documents there an airport locker.
[35:01] Speaker 5: So he flashed his Markham passport, boarded a flight to Hawaii,
[35:06] Speaker 5: and from Honolulu he flew to Singapore. From Singapore, he
[35:10] Speaker 5: flew to Denmark, and from Denmark he flew to Melbourne, Australia, Melbourne,
[35:15] Speaker 5: arriving December tenth, nineteen seventy four, so twenty days after
[35:19] Speaker 5: his disappearance. Like, you know, I don't know if he
[35:22] Speaker 5: was stopping at banks along the way.
[35:23] Speaker 2: Who's to say, I mean, I guess you're you're like,
[35:26] Speaker 2: you're figuring nobody will be on all these flights so
[35:29] Speaker 2: if any of.
[35:29] Speaker 5: You read one of them, he didn't just travel as Markham.
[35:32] Speaker 5: So for some of those flights he used that Muldoon passport.
[35:36] Speaker 5: So he's mixing it up, muddying the waters, confusing the
[35:39] Speaker 5: field mice, swapping the placement, jiggling the old jam job.
[35:44] Speaker 5: Back in London, it wasn't just barbing the kids for morning.
[35:48] Speaker 5: His death, the death of forty nine year old Stonehouse.
[35:51] Speaker 5: There's also that young secretary. He was stepping out his
[35:54] Speaker 5: twenty eight year old Shila.
[35:55] Speaker 2: Buckley side piece. Yeah, so she put on.
[35:58] Speaker 5: A good show. She's crying about her dead boss, but
[36:01] Speaker 5: she knew the real story. In fact, according to the
[36:03] Speaker 5: BBC quote, some of her clothes had been packed in
[36:06] Speaker 5: a trunk and shipped to Australia a month before. She
[36:10] Speaker 5: had transatlantic telephone calls from him, and she had also
[36:13] Speaker 5: sent him semi coded letters through one of his two
[36:16] Speaker 5: Australian banks. You know we call that out here, accomplice.
[36:21] Speaker 5: I want to know what the semi coded it was
[36:23] Speaker 5: like in pig Latin.
[36:27] Speaker 2: Latin.
[36:29] Speaker 5: So before you knew it, Buckley, she's in Australia at
[36:33] Speaker 5: Stonehouse's side, and for weeks he's playing the role of
[36:37] Speaker 5: this quiet British businessman settling down in Melbourne. But financial
[36:43] Speaker 5: transactions started raising suspicions with Australian bank staff and authorities.
[36:49] Speaker 5: So even though he may have been spying for the checks,
[36:53] Speaker 5: he was super bad at covert operations and he.
[36:56] Speaker 2: Just left this trail of like evidence and discrepanty season
[37:00] Speaker 2: his way. He's no, he's not.
[37:03] Speaker 5: So he took his two false passports and he went
[37:05] Speaker 5: around transferring huge amounts of money between banks and he
[37:09] Speaker 5: thought this would like throw people off his scent. So yeah,
[37:13] Speaker 5: he was like, he goes into this branch of right, Yeah,
[37:17] Speaker 5: he goes into this branch of the Bank of New
[37:19] Speaker 5: Zealand as Clive Muldoon and he deposits like, you know,
[37:24] Speaker 5: twenty one grand Australian. But like this watchful employee on
[37:28] Speaker 5: his lunch break sees Stonehouse going in and out of
[37:31] Speaker 5: different banks, and like by chance, the teller who'd helped
[37:35] Speaker 5: him was in another bank a few days later, this
[37:38] Speaker 5: branch of the Bank of New South Wales and he
[37:41] Speaker 5: here's the guy. Oh, I'm Joseph Markham. And so the teller,
[37:44] Speaker 5: he's a good citizen and a total rat snitch. He
[37:47] Speaker 5: calls the cops like, Meanwhile, though, Stonehouse and Buckley, they're
[37:52] Speaker 5: living it up right. They went on vacation to Copenhagen,
[37:56] Speaker 5: really they did, and so while they're gone, the cops
[38:00] Speaker 5: got authorization to begin surveillance. And but the thing is
[38:04] Speaker 5: they didn't suspect he was Stonehouse.
[38:06] Speaker 2: Oh they didn't. They thought he was Lord Lucan. Who's
[38:09] Speaker 2: Lord Luken.
[38:10] Speaker 5: I'm so glad you asked Lord Luke question. He was
[38:15] Speaker 5: Richard John Bingham, seventh Earl of Luken. Oh that one, yeah,
[38:20] Speaker 5: of course, disappeared around the same time as Stonehouse. He
[38:24] Speaker 5: was like this dashing banker, gambler and like adventureman.
[38:27] Speaker 2: Seventies, I'm telling you.
[38:28] Speaker 5: And he was also wanted for the murder of his
[38:30] Speaker 5: children's nanny, and he attempted murder of his wife. Oh,
[38:33] Speaker 5: dear God, big terrible stuff. He's a horrible human being.
[38:36] Speaker 5: I once tried to watch a documentary about him, and
[38:38] Speaker 5: I had to stop because.
[38:39] Speaker 2: It was horrible. And you watch anything. I'll watch absolutely any,
[38:42] Speaker 2: especially if it's like true crime.
[38:44] Speaker 5: You watched especially, but there were no gardens in it,
[38:46] Speaker 5: so I wasn't interested.
[38:48] Speaker 2: Your reigned is wild. You'll watch like something about son
[38:51] Speaker 2: of Sam and then like it's the most graphic thing
[38:53] Speaker 2: I've ever heard about, And then it's like gardening with
[38:56] Speaker 2: Monty Dan.
[38:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, I contained multitudes.
[38:59] Speaker 2: More than that. You canta cosmic itself.
[39:03] Speaker 5: I am so catching Lord Lucan would have been a
[39:07] Speaker 5: huge deal.
[39:08] Speaker 2: They get never found him.
[39:09] Speaker 5: What, Yeah, his story was a major one. The Aussies
[39:13] Speaker 5: they called Scotland Yard right, asked for pictures of Luken
[39:16] Speaker 5: and like any prince you got, the yard threw in
[39:19] Speaker 5: the materials on Stonehouse too. We got another missing dashing
[39:23] Speaker 5: guy and then they swooped in. So December twenty fourth,
[39:26] Speaker 5: Christmas Eve nineteen seventy I have for real and don't
[39:30] Speaker 5: forget it was like November tenth when he went missing.
[39:32] Speaker 2: So it's only December twenty fourth, the.
[39:35] Speaker 5: Same year he gets arrested outside of Melbourne train station.
[39:41] Speaker 2: When they took him into the police station, the cops
[39:43] Speaker 2: told him.
[39:44] Speaker 5: To pull down his pants. What that's just the custom
[39:47] Speaker 5: of the the ideo, It's part of their statutes.
[39:50] Speaker 2: No, let's just which you do.
[39:53] Speaker 5: They wanted to see if he had a six inch
[39:55] Speaker 5: scar on the inside of his right thigh that would
[39:57] Speaker 5: confirm he was Lord Lucan. Ah he got that sixth inch. No, no,
[40:05] Speaker 5: he didn't have it. So then they ran the Prince.
[40:07] Speaker 5: No match for Lucan, but a match for Stonehouse. And
[40:10] Speaker 5: then they found the two passports, and so Stonehouse he
[40:14] Speaker 5: just confesses, He's like, you know what, guess what, chaps,
[40:17] Speaker 5: I'm John Stonehouse, I'm mighty, mighty, I'm letting it all
[40:21] Speaker 5: hang out. And they're like, okay, wow. He's like, you
[40:26] Speaker 5: can pull your pants back up it. He told the
[40:33] Speaker 5: Copsy quote suffered a brainstorm. A brain he meant like
[40:38] Speaker 5: an idea generating sound. This is before Joe versus a volcano,
[40:41] Speaker 5: which had he told. He told the British he was like, brainstorm,
[40:46] Speaker 5: I need to talk to the British Prime minist So
[40:48] Speaker 5: he gets a message to the Prime Minister. He's like,
[40:50] Speaker 5: you know what, I ran off because of quote incredible
[40:54] Speaker 5: pressures in business and various attempts at blackmail. Oh we
[40:58] Speaker 5: didn't know about that.
[40:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, just crime, he said, quote.
[41:01] Speaker 5: I suppose this can be summed up as a brain
[41:03] Speaker 5: storm or a mental breakdown. I can only apologize to
[41:06] Speaker 5: you and all the others who've been troubled by.
[41:08] Speaker 2: This business used the term brainstorm. That way not created so.
[41:15] Speaker 5: Stonehouse. He's claiming he's mentally ill, right, he has this breakdown,
[41:17] Speaker 5: he's under all this pressure. You know, I've been under
[41:20] Speaker 5: a whole lot of stress.
[41:21] Speaker 2: I've seen recently. Totally. I am not sleeping and Sae.
[41:26] Speaker 5: I didn't fake my death and run off with some
[41:28] Speaker 5: young thing to Australia. I want to make that clear.
[41:32] Speaker 5: If I were going to fake my death, i'd move
[41:33] Speaker 5: to a very large American city and never talk to
[41:36] Speaker 5: anyone and somebody old, yes, I'd find someone on their
[41:40] Speaker 5: last legs depth store and let's come on. So at
[41:48] Speaker 5: Melbourne Police headquarters he was like, hey, can I call
[41:51] Speaker 5: my wife? And they're like sure, and then they hit
[41:54] Speaker 5: record and he said, hello, darling.
[41:57] Speaker 2: Well they picked up the false identity here.
[42:00] Speaker 5: You would realize from all this that I have been
[42:02] Speaker 5: deceiving you. I'm sorry about that, but in a sense,
[42:05] Speaker 5: I'm glad it's all over.
[42:07] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm glad it's all over for me. So
[42:12] Speaker 2: you guys, the stress holerable.
[42:14] Speaker 5: My cortisol levels are through the roof you wires. So
[42:18] Speaker 5: his wife and kids came down from England. His girlfriend
[42:20] Speaker 5: showed up too. That must have felt great.
[42:22] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got everyone coming. They all care about him.
[42:25] Speaker 5: The press had a field day mp rises from the
[42:27] Speaker 5: Dead to the headline. January of nineteen seventy five, he
[42:31] Speaker 5: spoke to BBC Australia and he was sticking with the
[42:35] Speaker 5: mental illness defense.
[42:36] Speaker 2: This time he.
[42:37] Speaker 5: Broadened it out to having developed a quote divided personality,
[42:41] Speaker 5: with the new personality providing a release to the old
[42:44] Speaker 5: personality which is under stress and strain of considerable proportions.
[42:48] Speaker 2: So somebody told them about the many faces of Evey.
[42:50] Speaker 2: That's me.
[42:51] Speaker 5: Yeah, He's like, yeah, I read Sybil, Let's do this.
[42:54] Speaker 5: She's asked, how, like, how can you put your wife
[42:57] Speaker 5: and your kids through this?
[42:58] Speaker 2: You would think that might be a question. He can said.
[43:00] Speaker 5: He said, quote, I was trying by disappearing to make
[43:02] Speaker 5: their lives easier by taking away some of the tensions
[43:06] Speaker 5: that I gave to them for my old personality.
[43:08] Speaker 2: Like uh, and that involved the girl, yeah exactly. That
[43:12] Speaker 2: was also the seat to help out the children.
[43:14] Speaker 5: Yeah, that was for that to take the pressure for
[43:17] Speaker 5: the kids.
[43:19] Speaker 2: Doing this for you gains. Yeah. I don't want to
[43:22] Speaker 2: do this. This is for you kids.
[43:24] Speaker 5: Every time I remember, remember the stone House have been
[43:30] Speaker 5: re elected to a scene in Parliament.
[43:32] Speaker 2: Which I still cannot fathom.
[43:33] Speaker 5: But yes, he was technically still an MP at this point,
[43:37] Speaker 5: and he totally was like, you know what, I am
[43:39] Speaker 5: not giving up my.
[43:40] Speaker 2: Seat, but more importantly, more importantly.
[43:43] Speaker 5: I'm not giving up my salary, even though I'm twelve
[43:46] Speaker 5: thousand miles away from.
[43:47] Speaker 2: My job and I haven't done it for months.
[43:50] Speaker 5: You're gonna absolutely love this quote. Lots of members of
[43:53] Speaker 5: Parliament gone overseas visits and do fact finding tours. I've
[43:57] Speaker 5: been doing a fact finding tour, not only in terms
[44:00] Speaker 5: of geography, but in terms of the inner self of
[44:04] Speaker 5: a political animal. Now that tour could be very interesting.
[44:08] Speaker 5: In my golly, I think it fully justifies an MP's salary.
[44:12] Speaker 5: If I can get the story down of my experience.
[44:15] Speaker 2: I get the writing time. Then he adds in he
[44:17] Speaker 2: went on both a fact finding and a fact hiding
[44:22] Speaker 2: to hide find himself.
[44:24] Speaker 5: Then he says, quote, I think a member of Parliament,
[44:27] Speaker 5: like anybody else in any other job, is entitled to
[44:30] Speaker 5: some consideration during a period when he has some sort
[44:32] Speaker 5: of illness.
[44:34] Speaker 2: Yes, sir, that is true for people who have reason
[44:36] Speaker 2: got secretary iteas.
[44:39] Speaker 5: But yeah, I love that, just like yeah, the sax
[44:40] Speaker 5: finding tour was finding me.
[44:43] Speaker 2: I went on a journey and I found so uh. There.
[44:46] Speaker 5: He gets extradited return to Britain nineteen seventy five. He
[44:50] Speaker 5: faces tons of criminal charges, twenty one counts of theft, fraud, deception.
[44:55] Speaker 5: While he's out on bail, continues to serve as MP.
[44:59] Speaker 5: In an another There's something.
[45:01] Speaker 2: About the people who become politicians. I'm convinced of it now.
[45:04] Speaker 2: There is something the rest of us do not have,
[45:07] Speaker 2: and that's why they are just shameless and willing to
[45:09] Speaker 2: do this stuff. Yeah.
[45:10] Speaker 4: I used to think it was like they have like
[45:11] Speaker 4: a some kind of weird kink about being shamed publicly
[45:14] Speaker 4: and also being adulated publicly that they love both sides.
[45:17] Speaker 2: I'm convinced it's more than that. It's it's way vapor. Yeah,
[45:20] Speaker 2: it's some much storytelling mechanism in their head is broken. Yeah,
[45:24] Speaker 2: well he's there or whatever.
[45:25] Speaker 5: Hypers he's king of poor decisions, these king, I'm champion,
[45:30] Speaker 5: adds another. He adds another to the list. He insists
[45:33] Speaker 5: on representing himself in court.
[45:34] Speaker 2: Oh god, and like he's stuck.
[45:36] Speaker 5: With the whole. I was overwhelmed. I'm mentally ill sing.
[45:39] Speaker 2: I also have amnesian.
[45:41] Speaker 5: The trial was in nineteen seventy six, was completely theatrical.
[45:44] Speaker 5: It went on for sixty eight days.
[45:47] Speaker 2: Wow.
[45:47] Speaker 5: He cross examined witnesses. He made these like elaborate speeches.
[45:51] Speaker 5: He really like tried to appeal to sympathy. He made
[45:54] Speaker 5: the longest doc statement in British history. I went on
[45:57] Speaker 5: for six days.
[45:59] Speaker 2: A statement lasted six days. I want the British version.
[46:03] Speaker 4: I don't know who this person is, a Vin Diesel
[46:05] Speaker 4: to make this movie as it is, like, look.
[46:08] Speaker 2: I'm a serious actor. Whoever there Vin Diesel is do
[46:11] Speaker 2: this movie? Oh my god, Clive Owen.
[46:16] Speaker 4: Oh good.
[46:17] Speaker 5: So the evidence was damning right, forged documents, fake identities,
[46:21] Speaker 5: bank fraud, false accounting. He's ultimately found guilty of forgery
[46:25] Speaker 5: of a passport, stealing checks from his own company, and
[46:27] Speaker 5: attempting to defraud insurance companies by pretending he drowned.
[46:32] Speaker 2: He was.
[46:33] Speaker 5: He was found innocent of conspiring to defraud creditors, but
[46:37] Speaker 5: they attacked on another charge, wasting police time.
[46:40] Speaker 2: Oh to get mad about that.
[46:41] Speaker 5: He was guilty for that, So he gets seven years
[46:44] Speaker 5: in prison. The presiding judge said that he had committed
[46:48] Speaker 5: quote deliberate premeditated heartless fraud. So he served his sentence
[46:53] Speaker 5: at Wormwood Scrubs, which is maybe one of the best
[46:56] Speaker 5: prison names. Familiar with that one, and then Blundlesome Prison
[46:59] Speaker 5: where he had Yeah, he had a bunch of heart
[47:02] Speaker 5: attacks in nineteen seventy seven, so it's like a year
[47:05] Speaker 5: after he's in there. He gets released early on health
[47:08] Speaker 5: grounds in nineteen seventy nine.
[47:10] Speaker 2: He's in his late fifties.
[47:11] Speaker 5: Yeah, by then he divorced Barbara and married Sheila Buckley, the.
[47:15] Speaker 2: Secretary with him. They must have like a chessa.
[47:18] Speaker 5: He kept a low profile in his later years. He retired,
[47:23] Speaker 5: he went to Hampshire. It was like wrote books, novels, police. Yeah,
[47:29] Speaker 5: he went to Old Hampshire. He would make occasional public
[47:32] Speaker 5: statements defending his actions or like criticizing the press, but
[47:35] Speaker 5: he pretty much disappeared from public life. In the eighties,
[47:40] Speaker 5: declassified documents and interviews with Eastern Bloc defectors, they resurrected
[47:45] Speaker 5: the claim that he had been an active spy for
[47:48] Speaker 5: Czechoslovakia and that his code name was Agent Colon k
[47:53] Speaker 5: O L O N Colan Colon.
[47:55] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[47:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, So he and his immediate family denied the alations like.
[48:00] Speaker 2: Where they first met him, like Cologne, like Germany. Who knows.
[48:03] Speaker 2: So that's not how you spell it, I know, but
[48:05] Speaker 2: I figured they would spell it like they'd make Colonne.
[48:09] Speaker 2: He said that he had been used by foreign agents.
[48:12] Speaker 5: Without knowledge or intent.
[48:13] Speaker 2: Me too, brother, that happens to me, Like every.
[48:15] Speaker 5: Day I go to the supermarket. Foreign agents are I'm
[48:19] Speaker 5: about to use you and you don't even know.
[48:22] Speaker 2: I'd find out later.
[48:24] Speaker 5: Okay. So but there were the five files that came
[48:27] Speaker 5: out put in that book I mentioned. Yes, they confirmed
[48:30] Speaker 5: that British intelligence, you know, said that he had been
[48:33] Speaker 5: passing sensitive material to check agents in exchange for payment,
[48:37] Speaker 5: beginning as early as nineteen sixty two.
[48:40] Speaker 2: That's early, that's early.
[48:42] Speaker 5: Stonehouse died of a heart attack April fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight,
[48:46] Speaker 5: at the age of sixty two.
[48:47] Speaker 3: Wow.
[48:48] Speaker 5: In his final years, he was like this tragicomic figure, right,
[48:52] Speaker 5: Like he's this man of promise, undone by ambition, deceit, arrogance.
[48:58] Speaker 5: Over the years, his story has been told in documentaries, books,
[49:03] Speaker 5: and there was an ITV series in twenty twenty three
[49:06] Speaker 5: starring Matthew mcfaden Tom Walmscans from Succession is that ball.
[49:14] Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know whatever, mister Darcy, I
[49:16] Speaker 2: don't really anymore. They gave it up. So he was
[49:19] Speaker 2: in succession, Yeah, I know a guy, yeahs in succession.
[49:24] Speaker 5: Mister dark loves succession. Yeah, okay, So.
[49:27] Speaker 2: Public surprised that both you and I liked that, Yeah,
[49:30] Speaker 2: because we both do not like usually the same things.
[49:32] Speaker 2: And also that it's about rich people acting badly. I
[49:36] Speaker 2: mean that's a rough sell for us. For yeah, for
[49:38] Speaker 2: each of us are different reasons we loved it.
[49:41] Speaker 5: So people are like divided on him, like some see
[49:44] Speaker 5: him as this desperate man and done by stress mental illness.
[49:47] Speaker 5: Others are like he's a narcissist.
[49:49] Speaker 7: Surprised, I mean he's fascinating, right, you might take he
[49:55] Speaker 7: was like climbing to these incredible heights of power, only
[49:58] Speaker 7: like plunge into infamy through a series of bad decisions.
[50:02] Speaker 5: So like whether he was mentally ill or not, though,
[50:04] Speaker 5: like we can safely say the boy wasn't right, Yeah,
[50:06] Speaker 5: I do what he was doing was wrong, otherwise he
[50:09] Speaker 5: wouldn't have hidden it.
[50:10] Speaker 4: I don't think, I mean, do you believe that the
[50:12] Speaker 4: mental illness? It seems to me that he's kind of
[50:14] Speaker 4: like joining a crowd. He doesn't belong any going we're
[50:16] Speaker 4: all victims here.
[50:17] Speaker 5: Well, I think he was made frantic by it.
[50:19] Speaker 2: But I think he's he you know, I think he's
[50:21] Speaker 2: miss mislabeling.
[50:23] Speaker 5: He's mislabeling it is my I mean, I agree.
[50:25] Speaker 4: He had a psychological break and he had a moment
[50:28] Speaker 4: of great stress. But to call himself like this is
[50:31] Speaker 4: a culmination of mental illness. I shouldn't speculate.
[50:34] Speaker 2: I don't know.
[50:34] Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. I'm not I'm not an expert.
[50:38] Speaker 2: Thankfully, I'm not a jury member, so I don't.
[50:40] Speaker 5: But I mean, I don't know just the details I
[50:42] Speaker 5: see there. Yeah, he's a cautionary tale, right, definitely that.
[50:47] Speaker 5: Don't lose sight of your beliefs, maintain your integrity, don't
[50:51] Speaker 5: get business deals. Yeah, don't bonk your secretary if you're married.
[50:55] Speaker 2: Oh right right.
[50:56] Speaker 5: Don't fake your death. These are good thing, good reminders.
[50:59] Speaker 2: Don't fit your death doubt.
[51:01] Speaker 5: Yeah, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
[51:03] Speaker 2: Apparently, not to fake your death? Don't take Yeah, I've
[51:05] Speaker 2: been planning my entire life to do that. You're like
[51:08] Speaker 2: taking away once.
[51:09] Speaker 5: This has changed my trajectory.
[51:11] Speaker 4: It's what I call my first retirement, so I don't
[51:14] Speaker 4: know now what to do my first retirement.
[51:15] Speaker 2: Elizabeth, what's yours?
[51:18] Speaker 5: I told you everything you ever need to know. When
[51:20] Speaker 5: I'm done, you know what I need? I need to
[51:22] Speaker 5: talk back?
[51:23] Speaker 2: Did okay? Produc Can you favor us with one?
[51:27] Speaker 4: Oh my god, I went.
[51:39] Speaker 3: Dizzy, Clyde, how are you? Uh? Salutations from Delaware, the state,
[51:45] Speaker 3: not the apparent city in Ohio. Do you know what's ridiculous?
[51:50] Speaker 3: I make such a point to avoid social media, and
[51:54] Speaker 3: I'm very happy with that, to the point that I
[51:56] Speaker 3: have no idea what blue sky is. But I also
[51:59] Speaker 3: am in the who knows who cares? So in my mind,
[52:02] Speaker 3: you're like Mufasa in the sky, and that's how I
[52:05] Speaker 3: can find you. So I'll look up next time I
[52:07] Speaker 3: need you.
[52:09] Speaker 5: Oh my god, I love this personally. I envy you
[52:13] Speaker 5: not knowing blue sky and staying off social media. I mean,
[52:17] Speaker 5: I'd like to cut it down to pretty much that,
[52:19] Speaker 5: but goodness, Yeah, we are.
[52:21] Speaker 2: Look up if you need to feel us, look up
[52:23] Speaker 2: in the sky. That's how I find her. Yeah, that's true.
[52:27] Speaker 2: That's how I just love that so much.
[52:29] Speaker 5: That's all for today. You can find us online at
[52:31] Speaker 5: ridiculous Crime dot com Newsflash breaking news. We just want
[52:36] Speaker 5: a tony no yeah for.
[52:39] Speaker 2: Fleet fleetest feet, fastest feet in the bizh okay, I
[52:43] Speaker 2: thought we won for Fleet Week.
[52:44] Speaker 5: And fleet we won Fleet Week two years ago. We're
[52:48] Speaker 5: also Ridiculous Crime on on Blue Sky, Instagram or if
[52:52] Speaker 5: you need me, just look up in the sky. We're
[52:55] Speaker 5: on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. You can email Ridiculous
[52:59] Speaker 5: Crime gmail dot com, leave a talkback on the iHeart app.
[53:03] Speaker 2: Please we love them so much reach out.
[53:11] Speaker 5: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,
[53:15] Speaker 5: produced and edited by Dave Cousten, twelfth Earl of Minja
[53:18] Speaker 5: Mind Your Own Business, starring Annalise Rutger as Judith. Research
[53:24] Speaker 5: is by Eagle Eyed bank teller Marissa Brown. The theme
[53:27] Speaker 5: song is by Miami beachcomber Thomas Lee and I rate
[53:30] Speaker 5: British constituent Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany
[53:34] Speaker 5: five hundred guest Haarn, makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.
[53:39] Speaker 5: Executive producers are Lord Lucan, Hunters, Ben Bollen and Noel.
[53:43] Speaker 8: Browns QUI say It one More times? QUI.
[53:55] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio, four more podcasts
[53:59] Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
[54:02] Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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