# I See Your True Colors Shining Through: The Fine Cotton Scandal

An episode of [Ridiculous Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1608230191), 28 Nov 2024, 46 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/0b4bcc39-7ba2-453f-aaac-ae510011dd80/313b7fc3-28f9-4cae-8939-b2350125c3fc/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=3a4c50f5-ff69-4807-aa26-ae510011dd8e

A lifelong criminal fixes a horse race with the help of Australian organized crime. In what would make an excellent Guy Ritchie movie, the crimers bumble their way to a disastrous finish worthy of no photos. But just like a good Guy Ritchie movie, not everything is as it seems. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:03] Speaker 2: Saren, Hey, how are you doing?
[0:06] Speaker 3: Oh man, I was just taking a nap waiting for you.
[0:08] Speaker 2: I know I was late. It's okay, okay, cool.
[0:12] Speaker 3: I needed I needed the sleep.
[0:13] Speaker 2: Totally legal, totally cool. Listen. You know it's ridiculous.
[0:16] Speaker 3: Yes, tell me, Okay, do you remember the like snacks
[0:20] Speaker 3: that we used to get as kids.
[0:21] Speaker 2: Sure.
[0:22] Speaker 3: I was reminded of one by my sister and I
[0:25] Speaker 3: was like that we didn't really is that really a thing?
[0:26] Speaker 3: And then she sent me a picture to remind me,
[0:28] Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god, that really was
[0:29] Speaker 3: a thing. Hot buttered cheerios.
[0:32] Speaker 2: Hot buttered cheerios.
[0:34] Speaker 3: Buttered cheerios. No, it was not a snack of my
[0:37] Speaker 3: childhood either, but it was something that we were served
[0:39] Speaker 3: once and both Megan and I my sister, were like,
[0:42] Speaker 3: what is this hot buttered cheerios? In case you're not aware,
[0:46] Speaker 3: I'm not aware it was. And I found the advertisement
[0:49] Speaker 3: that it's basically the recipe. Okay, so it says the
[0:52] Speaker 3: new quick and easy TV snack you make with cheerios.
[0:55] Speaker 3: So it's a TV snack like popcorn.
[0:56] Speaker 2: Or something the TV.
[0:58] Speaker 3: Exactly you wouldn't know about that. Well, anyway, the ad
[1:01] Speaker 3: goes make a bolt right now. Just melt a quarter
[1:04] Speaker 3: cup of butter or margarine in a ten inch skillet
[1:07] Speaker 3: over low heat. Add four cups of cheerios, Cook and
[1:12] Speaker 3: stir cereal two to three minutes until well coated and hot.
[1:16] Speaker 3: Then sprinkle with salt. You've got hot buttered ose served
[1:20] Speaker 3: warm or cool. It's a tasty new snack your whole
[1:23] Speaker 3: family will enjoy. God, and we're reminded of like, oh God,
[1:30] Speaker 3: that actually was served to us is a hot.
[1:32] Speaker 2: Butter like the last it's who gave it to you, just.
[1:35] Speaker 3: Something some parent who was like, hey, your kids, here's
[1:39] Speaker 3: something that's better than sawdust. You know, like they had
[1:42] Speaker 3: no respect for us. When we your kids, there's nothing like, oh,
[1:44] Speaker 3: we're gonna get food. It's either like you get natural
[1:47] Speaker 3: food nobody wants to eat and you're embarrassed to show
[1:49] Speaker 3: your friends. Yeah, my sister and I got it home,
[1:51] Speaker 3: or when we left the house it was like here's
[1:53] Speaker 3: something that nobody should eat. And it was like something
[1:56] Speaker 3: with aspect or is like white bread with no crust,
[1:59] Speaker 3: and it was like, oh, just cucumbers and mayonnaise. I'm like,
[2:01] Speaker 3: that's not a sandwich.
[2:03] Speaker 2: You're going to fancy places. I was in Georgia, was
[2:05] Speaker 2: in politics, Yeah, you were in politics.
[2:07] Speaker 3: Well, my father was whatever.
[2:09] Speaker 2: You know. You know what else is ridiculous?
[2:12] Speaker 3: No, I was hoping you did.
[2:13] Speaker 2: I could tell you, but that's a horse of a
[2:15] Speaker 2: different color. I don't even know. This is ridiculous.
[2:40] Speaker 4: Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons.
[2:45] Speaker 4: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred
[2:48] Speaker 4: percent ridiculous.
[2:50] Speaker 3: I know you heard that.
[2:53] Speaker 2: Are you a big horse racing guy?
[2:55] Speaker 5: Yes?
[2:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
[2:57] Speaker 4: You told me the story about that betting scandal and
[3:00] Speaker 4: then you called that.
[3:00] Speaker 2: Amazing horse race.
[3:02] Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.
[3:03] Speaker 2: It was brilliant.
[3:04] Speaker 5: By the way.
[3:04] Speaker 3: You know, I can't hear the actors Zendaya's name without
[3:07] Speaker 3: thinking of the horse z and Yata. That's how much
[3:10] Speaker 3: I love horse.
[3:12] Speaker 2: Did you go to races? You do you go to races?
[3:15] Speaker 3: These days? There's no good horse track round here because
[3:17] Speaker 3: they closed the Golden Gate fraight. When I lived in
[3:19] Speaker 3: l A. I used to go to the horse tracks.
[3:21] Speaker 3: They had two tracks down there. They had Hollywood and
[3:23] Speaker 3: then over. It doesn't matter. But also you go down
[3:25] Speaker 3: to San Diego. There's a bunch of tracks.
[3:26] Speaker 4: Okay, I'm of a mind that I think that, you know,
[3:30] Speaker 4: the treatment of the animals can be cruel.
[3:32] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it definitely is.
[3:34] Speaker 4: I don't know if they desire the kind of activity
[3:37] Speaker 4: that racing provides. Like I'm pretty sure they don't want
[3:41] Speaker 4: to be pulled like pump full of drugs.
[3:45] Speaker 3: And also all the stuff with their legs.
[3:46] Speaker 4: Yeah, but like you know, you get like sled dogs,
[3:49] Speaker 4: they want to run.
[3:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that's a work animal.
[3:52] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[3:52] Speaker 3: The race horse isn't necessarily a work animal.
[3:54] Speaker 6: No.
[3:55] Speaker 2: And they're bred for like specific.
[3:57] Speaker 3: Like Clydesdale's, then you might get some of that.
[3:59] Speaker 6: Yuh.
[4:00] Speaker 2: Those and Belgian horses just like giant.
[4:03] Speaker 3: Belgian staff horses a giant one.
[4:05] Speaker 4: And horses in general beautiful creatures. Love them, I don't
[4:08] Speaker 4: I think I told you about how I've been a
[4:10] Speaker 4: one horse racing event in my life at the Alameda
[4:13] Speaker 4: County Fair.
[4:14] Speaker 3: Yes, know, it's only one.
[4:15] Speaker 2: I got to.
[4:15] Speaker 4: Stand along the fence while the horses ran. Oh my gosh,
[4:18] Speaker 4: it was so thunderous.
[4:19] Speaker 3: All that it sounds amazing. I mentioned that too.
[4:22] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they feel it in the ground.
[4:24] Speaker 3: I'm feeling your bones.
[4:25] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mentioned it to you when you told me
[4:28] Speaker 4: about the frat boys who cheated on the horse race.
[4:31] Speaker 4: But the story remains the same, Saren. And know by
[4:34] Speaker 4: the way you talked about Golden Gate Fields Berkeley that's closed.
[4:38] Speaker 4: As you said, that is like prime real estate right
[4:40] Speaker 4: on the oday. I have no idea what they're going
[4:42] Speaker 4: to do with it, but.
[4:43] Speaker 3: I hope it's something because it just it's amazing looks
[4:45] Speaker 3: right at San Francisco. It's right on the water, right
[4:48] Speaker 3: by the freeway. It's super easy to get to.
[4:50] Speaker 2: It's amazing ball park.
[4:53] Speaker 4: So, Saren, I want to get out of the USA
[4:57] Speaker 4: right now. I want to go somewhere else today, let's go.
[5:00] Speaker 4: I want to go to Australia. Oh yeah, to be specific,
[5:04] Speaker 4: I want to delve into their most famous horse racing scandal.
[5:09] Speaker 4: And it's been suggested to us.
[5:11] Speaker 2: Many times over the years.
[5:13] Speaker 4: Do you have no idea how many requests we've gotten
[5:15] Speaker 4: for this? The time is now. That's what I'm trying
[5:18] Speaker 4: to say, And I want to make it clear that
[5:21] Speaker 4: I'm not picking on Australia by telling so many stories
[5:24] Speaker 4: about the criminal exploits.
[5:27] Speaker 2: I do it out of love and respect. Yeah, exactly.
[5:30] Speaker 4: Australia knows how to party and they get down under
[5:34] Speaker 4: a dirty as no one says, So what am I
[5:38] Speaker 4: talking about today? Willis the fine Cotton affair?
[5:42] Speaker 2: Oh?
[5:42] Speaker 3: I don't know this one.
[5:44] Speaker 4: I love cotton, by the way, like the fabric of
[5:48] Speaker 4: our lives, don't. I don't wear synthetics for the most part.
[5:52] Speaker 4: Cotton in Kashmir, the Elizabeth Dutton story. It's cashmere season,
[5:57] Speaker 4: by the way, once again, I need to stop the digressions,
[6:02] Speaker 4: like I'm so scattered these days.
[6:04] Speaker 2: I'm really good at them. But I apologize anyway.
[6:06] Speaker 3: You did with speed and alacrity.
[6:08] Speaker 4: Just I am all over the place. So the Fine
[6:11] Speaker 4: Cotton affair, it's also known as the Fine Cotton scandal.
[6:14] Speaker 3: It's cotton, a person in a place, a thing called
[6:15] Speaker 3: We're going.
[6:16] Speaker 4: To hear this is a scandalo. Yeah, let's start with
[6:20] Speaker 4: some basics, please. Fine cotton born in nineteen seventy six,
[6:24] Speaker 4: passed away two thousand and nine. It was a brown
[6:27] Speaker 4: Australian Thoroughbred gelding.
[6:29] Speaker 2: Ah.
[6:29] Speaker 3: I was figuring, yeah, I need you have the birth and.
[6:31] Speaker 2: Dates was unfortunate.
[6:33] Speaker 4: Thoroughbreads are known as like hot leoded horses. They're fast, agile,
[6:38] Speaker 4: they have that PMA positive mental attitide be a little
[6:43] Speaker 4: bad brains.
[6:44] Speaker 2: They are spirited. Yes, they're committed to sparkle motion.
[6:48] Speaker 3: They are zaren.
[6:50] Speaker 2: Sometimes I question your commitment to sparkle.
[6:52] Speaker 3: You have good reason to look at my outfits.
[6:55] Speaker 4: So while Fine Cotton was an Australian thorough bread, it
[7:00] Speaker 4: was not fast, agile or committed to sparkle motion, like
[7:04] Speaker 4: you to expect. Really kind of a dud, really, yeah,
[7:07] Speaker 4: to be kind, we'll say he was of limited ability.
[7:10] Speaker 3: So he was an also rand.
[7:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's gorgeous though, And isn't that always the
[7:14] Speaker 4: way looks her brains gotta choose one talent except for you,
[7:18] Speaker 4: Except for you and producer Dave.
[7:20] Speaker 3: It broke the mold the day they made you to
[7:22] Speaker 3: we got neither.
[7:25] Speaker 4: Fine Cotton was a looker. You're into those sort of things.
[7:29] Speaker 4: He was described as having a rich, dark brown coat
[7:32] Speaker 4: with white socks on his legs. Oh, it's cute, cute
[7:36] Speaker 4: but slow. Yeah, so it's just like white markings.
[7:39] Speaker 3: So it could be a spokesmodel for Maine and tail exactly.
[7:42] Speaker 4: So, but what if fine, what if Fine Cotton suddenly
[7:47] Speaker 4: became amazing a glow up. Well, that would be great,
[7:52] Speaker 4: and what an achievement. I would be so proud of
[7:54] Speaker 4: that horse.
[7:55] Speaker 3: That horse could get in the zone like God, and.
[7:58] Speaker 2: I would be so proud.
[8:00] Speaker 4: Out of the folks betting on fine cotton, you know,
[8:04] Speaker 4: the ones who took a chance on a slow horse
[8:06] Speaker 4: to win, Why they would make a grip of cash.
[8:12] Speaker 4: I'd be so proud of them, you know, supporting the
[8:15] Speaker 4: underdog finally paying off.
[8:17] Speaker 2: Yeah. So enter John Gillespie.
[8:20] Speaker 4: He was a bloodstock agent, which is a that is
[8:24] Speaker 4: a title for a business card right there.
[8:26] Speaker 3: Do you know what it is?
[8:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's basically a horse broke So they buy
[8:32] Speaker 2: datty so great. They buy and.
[8:35] Speaker 4: Sell horses on behalf clients. They offer advice on purchasing horses.
[8:40] Speaker 4: So he's a bloodstock agent.
[8:41] Speaker 2: So good.
[8:43] Speaker 4: But he had other items on his resume. He used
[8:46] Speaker 4: to be a used car salesman.
[8:48] Speaker 3: Of course.
[8:49] Speaker 4: He he had also been a police informant. Oh wow,
[8:53] Speaker 4: a lacky boom boom down. You have to you have
[8:57] Speaker 4: to have done some things to become an informant by crime.
[9:01] Speaker 4: The fuzz doesn't come asking me for him. They want
[9:05] Speaker 4: to hear so they go to people like John Gillespie,
[9:08] Speaker 4: someone who had three hundred convictions un of his house.
[9:15] Speaker 3: How how convictions like you can be getting a conviction
[9:19] Speaker 3: every week and that for.
[9:21] Speaker 2: Years, I think so.
[9:22] Speaker 4: So the year nineteen eighty two, John Gillespie he tries
[9:26] Speaker 4: his first horse con okay, he set it up for
[9:29] Speaker 4: a horse named Apparent Heir to race at Dooman in Brisbane.
[9:34] Speaker 4: Fair enough, and then he subbed in a better horse
[9:38] Speaker 4: named Manissong at the last minute, Like that's a scam
[9:41] Speaker 4: and he would have gotten away with it, except for
[9:43] Speaker 4: that Manisong didn't win and the ringer didn't ring so
[9:47] Speaker 4: people lost money and through it all and somehow and
[9:51] Speaker 4: so forth, Gillespie didn't get prosecuted for this. You couldn't
[9:55] Speaker 4: add it to the list of three hundred. And that's
[9:58] Speaker 4: what gave him the confidence to try again. Oh he
[10:01] Speaker 4: picked herself up and try again.
[10:03] Speaker 3: There's a spot for Gillespie exactly.
[10:05] Speaker 4: So see, if there are no ramifications for bad actions,
[10:09] Speaker 4: there's no incentive to stop the behaviors.
[10:11] Speaker 3: Arin yeah, yeah, which is very true without like a
[10:14] Speaker 3: corporal punishment or shame or like incarceration, or does someone
[10:19] Speaker 3: beating their ass any one of these things. People are like,
[10:21] Speaker 3: I can get away with this. Oh yeah.
[10:23] Speaker 4: So he wound up in jail on another matter, and
[10:26] Speaker 4: that's where he ran into a jockey named Pat Titana
[10:31] Speaker 4: who was doing time for kite flying, hiding kiting.
[10:35] Speaker 3: Bad check.
[10:37] Speaker 2: But they call it kite flying, do they? Apparently?
[10:40] Speaker 4: It turns out that Pat's brother, Hayden, was a licensed
[10:43] Speaker 4: horse trainer. Okay, And so here's how the Australian Broadcasting
[10:47] Speaker 4: Corporation described Hayden. Titan is a knock about kiwi who's
[10:53] Speaker 4: moved to Australia to live out his teenage fantasy, a
[10:56] Speaker 4: vision of the bare breasted Gold Coast girls from Picks,
[11:00] Speaker 4: the only skimpy magazine he could get growing up in
[11:03] Speaker 4: New Zealand. He's already spent some time behind bars in
[11:06] Speaker 4: New Zealand for stealing chainsaws, although he once dreamed of
[11:09] Speaker 4: becoming quote James Bond on the Gold Coast. By early
[11:13] Speaker 4: nineteen eighty four, he's living a quiet life training horses
[11:16] Speaker 4: on a bush block in northern New South Wales. Wow
[11:21] Speaker 4: stealing chainsaws.
[11:22] Speaker 3: And then becomes a horse trainer after wanting to be
[11:24] Speaker 3: James Bond on the Old Coast. It's you know what,
[11:27] Speaker 3: guy's got career option.
[11:28] Speaker 4: It's just he's got real moxie. So Pat and Gillesbie
[11:32] Speaker 4: they talk about ring ins sure, you know, swapping out
[11:35] Speaker 4: the horses while they're in prison or in jail together.
[11:38] Speaker 4: And Gillespie he gets them brain cranks, moving hamster working.
[11:43] Speaker 3: Overtime, cogs and wheels and gears.
[11:45] Speaker 2: All of that, all those type of things.
[11:47] Speaker 4: So Gillespie he gets out of prison March nineteen eighty four,
[11:50] Speaker 4: and he reached out to his pal Mixed Sayers, a mobster.
[11:55] Speaker 4: I like to imagine them on like a split screen
[11:57] Speaker 4: in my mind, where one's on his bed with our
[12:00] Speaker 4: field sheets, like twisting the phone cord around his figure.
[12:03] Speaker 4: He's like on his stomach, his feet are up behind him,
[12:06] Speaker 4: and then the other is like in the hall with
[12:08] Speaker 4: the kitchen phone cord stretched around the corner.
[12:10] Speaker 2: I mean, it's nineteen eighty four, you know, get with the.
[12:13] Speaker 3: Times, that long, long extension.
[12:16] Speaker 2: He's like whispering. He doesn'tant anyone hear you go to.
[12:18] Speaker 3: The living roomrom the kitchen. I remember it.
[12:19] Speaker 4: Exactly, so Mixed Sayers. He's Gillespie's connection to.
[12:24] Speaker 2: Like real crimers.
[12:25] Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, Sayers owed money to a boss named George Freeman,
[12:29] Speaker 4: and he brought Freeman into this scheme they were developing
[12:32] Speaker 4: to get a taste.
[12:34] Speaker 3: Like Australian hard men.
[12:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the network just keeps growing from there.
[12:37] Speaker 4: So they Haynes's job was to make sure that Fine
[12:41] Speaker 4: Cotton was terrible, okay, And so he had to make
[12:44] Speaker 4: sure that the horse lost as many races as was
[12:47] Speaker 4: equinely possible. Okay, the worst record, the worst the odds,
[12:51] Speaker 4: the better the payout if he wins.
[12:53] Speaker 3: So they're like dope in the books.
[12:55] Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And so they're just like feeding him Big
[12:57] Speaker 4: Max and laying in a field together and like smoking
[13:00] Speaker 4: joints and like, I guess we gotta go run.
[13:02] Speaker 2: Come on, He's like, oh, help me up here.
[13:04] Speaker 4: So Gillespie then found this trainer, Wendy Smith, and he
[13:08] Speaker 4: asked her to train a solid racer named Dashing Solitaire.
[13:13] Speaker 4: And that's the horse that Gillespian Company selected to be
[13:16] Speaker 4: the ring in replacement for Fine Cotton.
[13:19] Speaker 3: Yes, Dashing Solid, Dashing Solitaire is going to be the.
[13:21] Speaker 2: Ringer, right, So here's the thing.
[13:23] Speaker 4: Dashing Solitaire was dark chocolate brown like Fine Cotton, and
[13:27] Speaker 4: their sizes are about the same. But remember that Fine
[13:30] Speaker 4: Cotton had those white sock markings and Dashing Solitaire did not.
[13:35] Speaker 4: Oh well, so Wendy, They're like, whatever, just just do it.
[13:38] Speaker 4: So Wendy gets Dashing Solitaire starts training him. He wasn't
[13:42] Speaker 4: the best horse, but she worked on him, did her best.
[13:45] Speaker 4: This is July of eighty four. The next month, Gillespie
[13:48] Speaker 4: came by and he took Dashing Solitaire to a race.
[13:51] Speaker 4: You know, just going to check him out. Let's see
[13:53] Speaker 4: how he runs.
[13:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[13:55] Speaker 4: A few days later, Wendy goes to check on Dashing
[13:57] Speaker 4: Solitaire sees that his leg has been severely injured.
[14:01] Speaker 6: Oh.
[14:01] Speaker 3: I thought you're gonna say severely painted white. No.
[14:03] Speaker 4: No, he apparently he got tangled up in a barbed
[14:07] Speaker 4: wire fence after getting spooked by some kangaroos.
[14:11] Speaker 3: That is the most Australian see it is, well, like
[14:14] Speaker 3: racehorse gets tangled up in barbed wire because it gets
[14:17] Speaker 3: spooked by karos.
[14:18] Speaker 4: Yeah, the injury was bad, and Wendy is furious, so
[14:22] Speaker 4: she said, quote, it's just cruel anyone that would put
[14:25] Speaker 4: a horse into a barbed wire fence. Paddock just doesn't
[14:29] Speaker 4: think anything of racehorses.
[14:30] Speaker 3: I didn't even know they had that.
[14:32] Speaker 4: I don't think they do. I don't know what's wrong
[14:34] Speaker 4: with these people. So anyway, Dashing Solitaires out. The crew
[14:38] Speaker 4: had to figure out a way to pull this off.
[14:40] Speaker 4: So Hayden he was in favor of just pumping fine
[14:44] Speaker 4: cotton full of amphetamines.
[14:48] Speaker 2: Whatever.
[14:49] Speaker 4: They got a speed bomb, as he called, it's horrifying,
[14:53] Speaker 4: and even Gillespie's like, no, man, like, come on now.
[14:55] Speaker 3: You ever seeing a horse's nose open up and they run, Yeah,
[14:58] Speaker 3: it's like insane. The flare of the nostrils and you
[15:01] Speaker 3: imagine if it was oh yeah.
[15:02] Speaker 4: And then the nostrils just go all the way wide
[15:04] Speaker 4: to wrap around the years. So he didn't he didn't
[15:07] Speaker 4: want to less. We didn't want to bail on the
[15:09] Speaker 4: plan though, So he found a replacement for Dashing Solitaire,
[15:13] Speaker 4: and he couldn't be picky about looks like.
[15:16] Speaker 2: It just had to be, as I like to say,
[15:18] Speaker 2: close enough for government.
[15:19] Speaker 3: Oh god.
[15:20] Speaker 4: So it didn't have to look exactly like fine cotton,
[15:23] Speaker 4: but it had to be able to haul rear on
[15:25] Speaker 4: the track and that horse bold personality. Ooh, I love
[15:31] Speaker 4: I love racehorse names. I think they might be better
[15:34] Speaker 4: than like show dog names. Oh yeah, yeah, Bold Personality.
[15:39] Speaker 4: So that horse, he's owned by a guy named Bill
[15:41] Speaker 4: nom and he was like a really well respected trainer.
[15:45] Speaker 2: On the up and up. They tell Bill, we'll buy.
[15:48] Speaker 4: This horse for twenty thousand dollars and their plan was
[15:51] Speaker 4: to race the horse on a Saturday before the check.
[15:55] Speaker 2: Cleared on Monday.
[15:56] Speaker 5: Ah.
[15:57] Speaker 4: So Bold Personality didn't have Fine Cotton's white sox. They
[16:02] Speaker 4: seemed to be able to overlook that though. Okay, so
[16:06] Speaker 4: remember Dashing Solitaire. He didn't have the white sox, but
[16:09] Speaker 4: he had everything else and they could overlook the socks.
[16:12] Speaker 4: What about Bold Personality?
[16:13] Speaker 3: What about Bold Personality? Elizabeth?
[16:14] Speaker 2: He really looked nothing like fine.
[16:17] Speaker 3: Is he like a white speckled horse?
[16:18] Speaker 6: Oh?
[16:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[16:19] Speaker 4: Hayden saw the horse and said, quote, it's the wrong color.
[16:25] Speaker 2: Fine cotton is almost black. Bold Personality is brown. Yes, yeah.
[16:30] Speaker 2: And then there were the white socks. Again.
[16:33] Speaker 4: No, none on Bold Personality either. So at this point
[16:37] Speaker 4: the crew is so far into the deal that they
[16:39] Speaker 4: can't back out, and the bedding's all in place, and
[16:43] Speaker 4: all sorts of criminal Underworld types are breathing down their collective.
[16:48] Speaker 3: Score here.
[16:49] Speaker 2: So the crew they came.
[16:50] Speaker 4: Up with a plan for bold personality, A bold plan
[16:54] Speaker 4: for bold personality. Hold that thought. When we come back,
[16:57] Speaker 4: we'll go over this plan together. Yes, okay, we're back. Listen, Zaren,
[17:23] Speaker 4: I don't want to mess around.
[17:24] Speaker 3: I got to say a Laddy, I don't think you're
[17:26] Speaker 3: messing around. You never mess around. I do like though,
[17:28] Speaker 3: that even when you're not messing around. How many? How
[17:30] Speaker 3: often your stories sound like the plot of a Guy
[17:32] Speaker 3: Ritchie movie. I've yet to see Guy Ritchie.
[17:36] Speaker 2: If you're listening, I'm your idea factory.
[17:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, contact Elizabeth.
[17:40] Speaker 2: I'll help you out. Pal so, Zaren, close your eye.
[17:43] Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes.
[17:46] Speaker 2: I want you to picture it.
[17:48] Speaker 4: It's August seventeenth, nineteen eighty four, the day before the
[17:52] Speaker 4: Big Race. You live in Brisbane, Australia. You are a
[17:56] Speaker 4: very nosy fifty three year old woman named Gladys. You
[18:00] Speaker 4: love to sit out on the back balcony of your home,
[18:02] Speaker 4: sunning yourself with one of those reflective fold out sheets.
[18:06] Speaker 4: You're like human beef jerky. Your crispy blonde hair lives
[18:09] Speaker 4: in a tangle of curls on top of your head.
[18:12] Speaker 4: Your coral color lipstick is applied with notions of proximity,
[18:16] Speaker 4: not precision. You wear short athletic shorts and a tank top.
[18:19] Speaker 4: You are Gladys Baby. Your next door neighbor is a
[18:23] Speaker 4: man named Bobby North, some sort of businessman. He seems
[18:26] Speaker 4: a little shady, and you are absolutely sure he checks
[18:29] Speaker 4: you out.
[18:29] Speaker 2: When you're sun bathing.
[18:31] Speaker 4: What that means is that you find him incredibly entertaining.
[18:34] Speaker 4: You can see into his enormous back property from your balcony,
[18:38] Speaker 4: especially with the binoculars you keep on hand, So while
[18:41] Speaker 4: you just have an expanse of lawn with some woods
[18:44] Speaker 4: in the distance, Bobby has a large dirt corral and
[18:46] Speaker 4: horse paddocks.
[18:47] Speaker 2: He thinks he's fancy.
[18:49] Speaker 4: So there you are, sun setting, sipping on a crow's
[18:52] Speaker 4: nest double sasparilla soda and soaking up the last of
[18:55] Speaker 4: the rays, just you and the kuckubarras. Then you hear something.
[18:59] Speaker 4: The side gate at Bobby North's creeks open. Here's some
[19:03] Speaker 4: men having a conversation. As they enter the backyard. You
[19:06] Speaker 4: grab your binoculars and you watch them tote in grocery
[19:09] Speaker 4: bags some sort of party. You wonder the way the
[19:12] Speaker 4: properties are situated, you can always hear absolutely everything coming
[19:16] Speaker 4: from Bobby's place, which is a gift for you, gladys,
[19:19] Speaker 4: because as I mentioned, you're terribly nosy. You hear Bobby say,
[19:22] Speaker 4: I can't believe we got all the boxes in town.
[19:25] Speaker 4: Hayden didn't think we'd get enough. The man, you figure
[19:28] Speaker 4: is Hayden chuckles and ask someone he calls Gillespie to
[19:31] Speaker 4: toss him a beer. You soon hear the crack of
[19:33] Speaker 4: three pop tops. You watch as Hayden fishes through the
[19:36] Speaker 4: bags and pulls out box after box of Claireal hair
[19:41] Speaker 4: dye shade number four. They rip open the packaging as
[19:44] Speaker 4: Gillespie heads toward the paddock and then walks a beautiful
[19:48] Speaker 4: horse out into the corral. Then you watch as the
[19:50] Speaker 4: men begin to mix the color in a bucket and
[19:52] Speaker 4: proceed to slap it all over the horse. What in
[19:55] Speaker 4: God's name is going on over there, you wonder? You
[19:59] Speaker 4: watch for hours, well into the night. Is the men
[20:02] Speaker 4: drink and joke and slather the horse and hair dye.
[20:05] Speaker 4: They talk about making money from bookies, and they complain
[20:08] Speaker 4: about the smell of the hair color. You finally get
[20:10] Speaker 4: too tired and a little chilly, so you make your
[20:12] Speaker 4: way inside. When you wake in the morning, you head
[20:15] Speaker 4: to the balcony to check on the mess next door.
[20:18] Speaker 4: There you see the three men running around in panic.
[20:21] Speaker 4: It's supposed to be brown, one of them yells. Instead,
[20:25] Speaker 4: you see the horse, and it is bright red, bright red.
[20:30] Speaker 4: They scramble around the yard, turning on a hose and
[20:33] Speaker 4: scrubbing the horse down. No chance that'll fix it, you think,
[20:37] Speaker 4: serves them, right, you mutter as you head downstairs to
[20:39] Speaker 4: poach yourself in the egg. All right, Cesarah. There we
[20:43] Speaker 4: are just a couple hours away from race time. And
[20:46] Speaker 4: the horse that's supposed to be a rich, dark brown
[20:49] Speaker 4: color is a clownish red and it doesn't have the
[20:52] Speaker 4: telltale white sauce. In every aspects like looks to ability
[20:57] Speaker 4: the horse, and no way resembles. So the three guys
[21:00] Speaker 4: they panic. They run and get spray paint and try
[21:04] Speaker 4: and at least match the legs. So let's just get close.
[21:07] Speaker 4: But the paint doesn't stick. It just drips down onto
[21:09] Speaker 4: the hooks. And you know, well they called them socks, right,
[21:15] Speaker 4: so they didn't have horse socks. So they wrap bandages
[21:18] Speaker 4: around the hind legs. Okay, fine cotton bandages.
[21:21] Speaker 2: Only the shadow knows.
[21:22] Speaker 4: Okay, So as a backup, if people take a look
[21:26] Speaker 4: at the horse and immediately know it's not Fine.
[21:28] Speaker 3: Cotton from the Red.
[21:29] Speaker 4: From the Red. Hayden had prepared one of his meth
[21:33] Speaker 4: bombs for bold personality. It's gross, and the horse was like,
[21:38] Speaker 4: come on, what do you think? I'm in a Daytona
[21:39] Speaker 4: beach Walmart parking lot, Like, what's up. So one thing
[21:43] Speaker 4: they did have on their side was that so many
[21:46] Speaker 4: of the track employees and even the police had placed
[21:49] Speaker 4: loaded bets that they wouldn't mess up their own paydays
[21:52] Speaker 4: and wrap them out.
[21:55] Speaker 2: Everybody's in on it.
[21:56] Speaker 4: And then the time came, right, Fine Cotton is going
[22:00] Speaker 4: to run in race four, a quote novice class for
[22:03] Speaker 4: emerging races or older horses of limited ability. You know,
[22:07] Speaker 4: that's kind of them.
[22:08] Speaker 3: That's it that way, Yeah, let them run.
[22:10] Speaker 4: So the jockey, his name is Gus Philpott. Yeah, he's
[22:14] Speaker 4: a local guy who got a call from what he
[22:17] Speaker 4: said was an unknown Brisbane trainer a few days prior.
[22:21] Speaker 4: He's totally in the dark about this. Yeah, of course
[22:23] Speaker 4: you can't let him know, which.
[22:24] Speaker 2: Is like, wouldn't he train with this horse? You'd hope.
[22:27] Speaker 2: But whatever.
[22:28] Speaker 3: They is jockeys and they're pretty good and they have
[22:30] Speaker 3: a good sense of horses.
[22:32] Speaker 4: Yeah, and then this like he's I hope he's wearing
[22:34] Speaker 4: white pants and when he gets off it's.
[22:35] Speaker 2: All red inside. Okay.
[22:38] Speaker 4: So on the morning of the race, Fine Cotton's odds
[22:41] Speaker 4: were thirty three to one. That's pretty generous all things considered,
[22:46] Speaker 4: and then the Australian Broadcasting Corporation wrote, quote, the high
[22:52] Speaker 4: odds on Fine Cotton started to move over the course
[22:55] Speaker 4: of the morning. They dropped from thirty three to one
[22:58] Speaker 4: to twenty to one. Sure sign money is coming in
[23:01] Speaker 4: from elsewhere. Then about twenty five minutes before the race,
[23:05] Speaker 4: when betting on the track officially opens, the odds of
[23:08] Speaker 4: Fine Cotton start to free fall, from twenty to one
[23:12] Speaker 4: to fifteen to one and stopping at seven to two.
[23:15] Speaker 3: Okay, but I was wondering because like this happens on tracks,
[23:20] Speaker 3: like when you see the action move, you know, somebody
[23:23] Speaker 3: knows something or there's like a fixes in and people
[23:25] Speaker 3: get they start assuming that so well, and.
[23:27] Speaker 4: Especially it's like if you have this kind of like
[23:29] Speaker 4: garbage race, right, so it's like the horses that are like, oh,
[23:32] Speaker 4: we'll let you do it. There shouldn't be any action
[23:35] Speaker 4: on a coming in before the track betting open. So yeah,
[23:39] Speaker 4: so racing officer Lester Grimmitt, he's suspicious.
[23:43] Speaker 2: Quote.
[23:44] Speaker 4: My job on the day was to observe the races
[23:46] Speaker 4: and take notes of each horse and also to compile
[23:48] Speaker 4: a steward's report on the day. So the odds start
[23:52] Speaker 4: to shift, he tries to alert the track stewards that
[23:55] Speaker 4: there's something tinky going on, because like people were placing
[23:59] Speaker 4: bets on fine from like Fiji and New Guinea and.
[24:04] Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah.
[24:05] Speaker 4: But according to ABC quote outside Sydney at the Appen Dogs,
[24:10] Speaker 4: a Catholic priest is madly running between bookies trying to
[24:13] Speaker 4: get everything he has on fine cotton. And that Sydney's
[24:17] Speaker 4: Warwick Farm, a merchant banker is going back again and
[24:21] Speaker 4: again to bet large sums on fine cotton. According to
[24:25] Speaker 4: the Sydney Morning Harold quote, Mona Lewis, the mother of
[24:28] Speaker 4: Queensland Police Commissioner Terry Lewis, arrives at Eagle Farm tightly
[24:33] Speaker 4: clutching her purse and strides purposely to a book maker
[24:36] Speaker 4: to place one thousand dollars bet on fine cotton, while
[24:39] Speaker 4: her son preens in front of.
[24:40] Speaker 2: A mirror in his bathroom. Comfortable in his corruption.
[24:43] Speaker 3: So some cop is like, ma, you gotta go and
[24:45] Speaker 3: just take it, get your money down to the bookies, exactly.
[24:48] Speaker 2: And so she's well.
[24:50] Speaker 4: And like Gillespie had talked up the scheme with so
[24:54] Speaker 4: many people.
[24:55] Speaker 3: It sounds like it, and he met.
[24:57] Speaker 4: But like one of them was Robbie Waterhouse. He was
[25:00] Speaker 4: the son of notorious bookmaker Big Bill Waterhouse. And so
[25:04] Speaker 4: this is this is no secret. Everyone wants in on it.
[25:08] Speaker 4: And so there's Bold Personality disguised as Fine Cotton. They
[25:12] Speaker 4: let Bold Personality onto the track even though he looked
[25:16] Speaker 4: nothing like Fine Cotton, and they let him race they did,
[25:19] Speaker 4: and race he did.
[25:21] Speaker 3: So they didn't have to do a meth bombing.
[25:23] Speaker 2: No, no, he got to run clean.
[25:25] Speaker 4: So Fine Cotton, Bold personality, Yeah, fought head and head
[25:30] Speaker 4: through the stretch with Harbor Gold. And from the track,
[25:33] Speaker 4: you know, the announcer is going Harbor Gold, Fine Cotton. Oh,
[25:37] Speaker 4: Fine Cotton is going to hold on by a nose.
[25:39] Speaker 4: He may have held on by a nose. The bookmakers
[25:41] Speaker 4: won't be able to pay, Yeah.
[25:45] Speaker 2: There there was no way to pay out on all
[25:48] Speaker 2: of this.
[25:49] Speaker 4: So Gillespie, it's just too exactly, So Gillespie's loving it.
[25:55] Speaker 4: He's made a lot of people, many of them very
[25:58] Speaker 4: scary people, a lot of money. Yes, yes, And so
[26:02] Speaker 4: then this chant rises up from next to the winter
[26:05] Speaker 4: circle and like bookmaker's clerks started shouting wrong horse, wrong horse.
[26:11] Speaker 2: And then they're yelling wake up stewards.
[26:13] Speaker 4: Official inquiry, official inquiry, the bookmaker's.
[26:19] Speaker 3: Official inquiry.
[26:20] Speaker 4: And then it's like longer and longer, like no, take
[26:21] Speaker 4: it back down the wrong horse. People, you're overlapping each other,
[26:26] Speaker 4: so okay, So.
[26:27] Speaker 3: I mean chance can be hard, you know.
[26:30] Speaker 4: Reports on the scene describe the spray paint running down
[26:34] Speaker 4: the horse's legs below the bandages. Yeah, and pretty soon
[26:38] Speaker 4: the crowd itself is chouting, ring and ring and accusing
[26:43] Speaker 4: them a.
[26:43] Speaker 3: Front sweat a lot.
[26:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just going to eat through that kraalon. So
[26:51] Speaker 4: the track stewards they make their move. They halted everything.
[26:55] Speaker 4: And please note that this was before the payouts, and
[26:59] Speaker 4: they asked for fine Cotton's identity papers show me papers,
[27:03] Speaker 4: and Hayden didn't have them. So he told the stewarts
[27:07] Speaker 4: that he was pretty sure that he brought them to
[27:09] Speaker 4: the track. Someone must have taken him out of My
[27:13] Speaker 4: Race Day gear Bag podcast. Likely story So remember the
[27:18] Speaker 4: guy who sold the horse to the crew for twenty k.
[27:22] Speaker 4: He's at the track and he looks over at the
[27:25] Speaker 4: commotion and he notices something that's not fine cotton.
[27:28] Speaker 2: That's his horse. So that's purse, he yells.
[27:32] Speaker 4: So he handed over bold Personalities identification card.
[27:37] Speaker 2: Everything matched up because he still.
[27:38] Speaker 3: Held the cards. The check had got the paper.
[27:41] Speaker 2: Well yeah, the check hadn't heard.
[27:42] Speaker 3: And he's a good trainer, you know, the good.
[27:44] Speaker 4: Horse person, right, so everything matches up. They're like boys,
[27:47] Speaker 4: we got ourselves an old fashioned ring in. So the
[27:51] Speaker 4: final finish was corrected to read Harbor Gold, Cabaret, Kingdom
[27:57] Speaker 4: and Grovelly.
[27:57] Speaker 2: Boy, Gravelly boy. I love that.
[28:01] Speaker 4: And so those who placed their bets on fine Cotton,
[28:04] Speaker 4: their bets stood, and that meant that they didn't get
[28:07] Speaker 4: paid and they didn't get their money back either.
[28:10] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and.
[28:10] Speaker 4: The total of all those bets two million dollars.
[28:15] Speaker 2: Bogus little race. Yeah.
[28:17] Speaker 4: So since they had been the ones really taking up
[28:20] Speaker 4: the bets, Robbie and Bill Waterhouse, they get questioned by
[28:24] Speaker 4: the Australian Jockey Club. And the Jockey Club they're determined
[28:28] Speaker 4: that the Waterhouses they had to know that the substitutions
[28:32] Speaker 4: were in on this betting scheme, and so another son
[28:36] Speaker 4: of Big Bill's, David Waterhouse, he wasn't involved, but he
[28:39] Speaker 4: still wanted to talk about it. He testified that quote
[28:43] Speaker 4: his brother and father bet around eight hundred thousand dollars
[28:46] Speaker 4: on fine cotton off the books, significantly more than the
[28:49] Speaker 4: sixty six thousand of legal betting that Robbie had admitted to.
[28:52] Speaker 3: All right, so who's think.
[28:55] Speaker 2: About that though? Too?
[28:56] Speaker 4: Is that you've got that All we're talking about is
[28:58] Speaker 4: a two million on track. It's the like off the
[29:02] Speaker 4: book stuff like, oh boy, so Robbie's like my brother's
[29:06] Speaker 4: making it all up.
[29:07] Speaker 2: Stop Bill and Robbie.
[29:11] Speaker 4: Big Bill and his son Robbie they get quote warned
[29:13] Speaker 4: off race courses throughout the world. They also had their
[29:17] Speaker 4: book making licenses revoked.
[29:19] Speaker 3: Question. Yeah, his his dude's name is big Bill. He
[29:22] Speaker 3: ever notices a lot of like bills have size nicknames
[29:25] Speaker 3: like little Bill, big Bill, big Bill, Baronzi. You never
[29:28] Speaker 3: meet like a medium bill, like.
[29:30] Speaker 2: The literation, but a little bit, I don't know.
[29:33] Speaker 3: I've met little bills and big bills, but I've never
[29:35] Speaker 3: met like a lefty medium bill or like a medium
[29:38] Speaker 3: bill or anything else. It's like red bill, you know anyway,
[29:41] Speaker 3: just it's always a sizing. What's up in bills? In size?
[29:45] Speaker 2: So big bill, red bill, medium bill. They don't have their.
[29:51] Speaker 4: Book making licenses, they don't have jobs, they have nothing.
[29:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, they got nothing to prove.
[29:55] Speaker 4: And so Robbie he got his racing band overturned in
[29:59] Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight eight, and then both he and his
[30:01] Speaker 4: dad got their book making licenses back a few.
[30:04] Speaker 2: Years after that. Really yeah, but what of the crew, Zaren?
[30:07] Speaker 3: How do they get their bookmaking licenses?
[30:09] Speaker 2: Well, they just you.
[30:10] Speaker 4: Know, maybe they do, who knows. So the crew, what
[30:13] Speaker 4: happened to them?
[30:15] Speaker 3: Zaren?
[30:16] Speaker 2: Close your eyes? Wait what, No, I'm kidding.
[30:18] Speaker 4: We're gonna listen to some ads and then I want
[30:21] Speaker 4: you to I'm asking you to close your eyes because
[30:23] Speaker 4: I want you to focus on the products and services offered.
[30:27] Speaker 4: And then when we come back, we're going to talk
[30:29] Speaker 4: about the Fine Cotton Crew, which totally sounds like.
[30:32] Speaker 5: An ll bean item, Zaren, closed, open them up.
[30:57] Speaker 4: So the Fine Cotton Crew, which is a great They
[31:01] Speaker 4: were in the crosshairs of the investigation and they knew it,
[31:04] Speaker 4: so they all went into hiding. Hayden he popped his
[31:07] Speaker 4: head up long enough to do an interview with Australian
[31:10] Speaker 4: sixty minutes. Why yeah, he told them that his life
[31:14] Speaker 4: was in danger.
[31:15] Speaker 3: It's like, well, duh, yeah.
[31:16] Speaker 4: They botched a major payday for gangsters by screwing with
[31:20] Speaker 4: the Switcheroo and then running their mouths about it.
[31:23] Speaker 2: Of course, their lives are in danger.
[31:24] Speaker 3: They told way too many people.
[31:25] Speaker 2: Oh completely.
[31:27] Speaker 4: Less than a month after he's on the show, he
[31:29] Speaker 4: gets arrested. All the law found him at the Truro
[31:33] Speaker 4: motel in South Australia. He gets extradited to Queensland and
[31:37] Speaker 4: the media loved every.
[31:39] Speaker 3: Second of it.
[31:40] Speaker 4: Oh yeah, So he wound up getting six months behind
[31:43] Speaker 4: bars for it, gets banned from Australian racecourses for life. Okay, yeah,
[31:48] Speaker 4: Bobby North, he gets caught too. He did six months
[31:51] Speaker 4: in prison. Remember the trainer, Wendy Smith, She's pretty much
[31:55] Speaker 4: an innocent for the most part, but Queensland racing officials
[31:58] Speaker 4: they just raked her over the coals. Really yeah, they
[32:01] Speaker 4: wanted to know exactly what she knew, why she didn't
[32:04] Speaker 4: tell anyone. She lost her right to enter horses into races,
[32:08] Speaker 4: which meant she couldn't be a professional trainer anymore.
[32:11] Speaker 3: Oh wow, So there's the whole like what did you know?
[32:13] Speaker 3: And when did you know it?
[32:14] Speaker 2: And basically did you tell?
[32:16] Speaker 3: And why did you not?
[32:17] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[32:17] Speaker 4: Exactly, and so she said, quote, I thought, all I've
[32:21] Speaker 4: done in my life is help people and love horses.
[32:24] Speaker 4: It literally broke my heart. I cried and cried because
[32:27] Speaker 4: I knew in my heart I hadn't done anything.
[32:30] Speaker 3: Girl. We just need to get you in front. Don't
[32:31] Speaker 3: worry about this. We just get you somebody with a
[32:33] Speaker 3: good clean paper, right.
[32:35] Speaker 4: Well, she tried to appeal to the High Court to
[32:38] Speaker 4: have the decision overturned, but it was denied. Yeah, she
[32:42] Speaker 4: couldn't train horses anymore. So she did the only logical
[32:45] Speaker 4: next best thing. She got into musical theater. She started
[32:51] Speaker 4: writing these like Gilbert and Sullivan's style shows, including one
[32:55] Speaker 4: called Pirates of Tweedheads.
[32:58] Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so their knockoffs.
[33:01] Speaker 2: So that's her.
[33:01] Speaker 4: Yeah, bold personality never raced again. He's super embarrassed by
[33:06] Speaker 4: the whole thing. I would imagine.
[33:07] Speaker 2: I wonder horses get embarrassed.
[33:09] Speaker 3: They do. Ores have a they have a lot of awareness,
[33:12] Speaker 3: they're very competitive, they're very like not just like territorial,
[33:15] Speaker 3: but I mean like they have ideas about what should
[33:18] Speaker 3: occur and what what another horse should do and shouldn't do.
[33:21] Speaker 4: So I could see that, yeah, I mean because I
[33:22] Speaker 4: know I've seen a dog get embarrassed.
[33:24] Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, like multiple times. Why are you embarrassing different.
[33:28] Speaker 4: Dogs, different scenarios. So fine Cotton lived to the ripe
[33:33] Speaker 4: old age of thirty two.
[33:35] Speaker 3: It's pretty good.
[33:36] Speaker 4: A movie producer bottom and was like trying to pitch
[33:39] Speaker 4: his story for ages. Maybe maybe to this day he
[33:42] Speaker 4: stands in an alleyway trying to pitch the fine.
[33:45] Speaker 7: I know.
[33:45] Speaker 3: Usually producers want to get like ip for a story.
[33:48] Speaker 3: They want to taste too. He bought the horse. He's like,
[33:51] Speaker 3: you just needed to get like option a story. You
[33:53] Speaker 3: didn't need to option the horse.
[33:54] Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
[33:55] Speaker 3: The horse is not going to be in the movie.
[33:56] Speaker 4: This horse, well maybe because maybe he's the only one
[33:59] Speaker 4: with white socks. So the real question is what happened
[34:03] Speaker 4: to John Gillessie?
[34:04] Speaker 3: What did happened to John?
[34:05] Speaker 4: He's brought to trial naturally, but like actually before he
[34:09] Speaker 4: right beforehand, he goes.
[34:10] Speaker 2: On the lamb.
[34:11] Speaker 3: Okay I figured that.
[34:12] Speaker 4: Yeah, so cops they eventually nabbed him while he was
[34:15] Speaker 4: hiding in his sister's cupboard. Whoa yeah, And he got
[34:18] Speaker 4: the longest sentence, four years, and there there was no
[34:22] Speaker 4: rehabilitation for him though. So he got out of prison
[34:25] Speaker 4: and he went to Asia and while he was there
[34:28] Speaker 4: he ran bars.
[34:29] Speaker 6: Oh.
[34:29] Speaker 3: I think he became like a hairdresser because he's good
[34:31] Speaker 3: with color. You know, he's like, I'm in now.
[34:33] Speaker 4: Well, then in nineteen ninety eight he pops up in
[34:37] Speaker 4: police and media reports because it seems like he was
[34:40] Speaker 4: the ringleader of a crew that got busted in the
[34:43] Speaker 4: Philippines for making more than a million US dollars selling
[34:47] Speaker 4: fake passports for the micro nation Dominion of Melchizedek.
[34:53] Speaker 3: Wait whatlck Mikelsi Dick. Yeah, that's the old biblical guy.
[34:57] Speaker 3: He he he shows up in the Bible. Was his
[35:00] Speaker 3: random like king who's just wandering around and people meet
[35:03] Speaker 3: him and he's just like figure that people run into
[35:05] Speaker 3: in the desert. Kelzie deck Is It's hard hard to explain,
[35:08] Speaker 3: but that's insane, Like to have the micronation of Makelzy
[35:11] Speaker 3: Deck and dominion.
[35:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're selling fake passports.
[35:15] Speaker 3: Passports to a micronation it doesn't exist, and people are
[35:18] Speaker 3: like hell, yeah.
[35:18] Speaker 2: And they made more than a million dollars doing this.
[35:20] Speaker 3: Oh my god.
[35:21] Speaker 4: And then he continued scamming, right so by the two
[35:24] Speaker 4: thousands he's investigated for anti wrinkle cream cons. And then
[35:30] Speaker 4: he also had a scam to get people to invest
[35:33] Speaker 4: in this multimillion dollar art collection that didn't exist.
[35:36] Speaker 3: I'm surprised gonna get into NFTs. Oh give them yeaheah, exactly.
[35:40] Speaker 3: I'm sure he did eventually in time.
[35:42] Speaker 2: And then he also kept up with various horse racing cons.
[35:44] Speaker 3: He dipped into that really yeah, oh yeah, you know,
[35:47] Speaker 3: I know, horse flash.
[35:48] Speaker 2: And then in.
[35:49] Speaker 4: Twenty sixteen his name popped up again, this time in
[35:54] Speaker 4: the Panama.
[35:54] Speaker 2: Paper shone uh huh.
[35:59] Speaker 4: So as you know, enormous document league from Mussak Fonseka
[36:04] Speaker 4: shell company Giant shone a light on the global system
[36:07] Speaker 4: of shadowy finance.
[36:09] Speaker 3: Yes, where the rich their money, all.
[36:11] Speaker 4: These like secretive offshore company totally. So the Panama Papers
[36:15] Speaker 4: showed that after Gillespie got out of prison for the
[36:17] Speaker 4: Fine Cotton stuff, he became a founding director of two
[36:21] Speaker 4: companies incorporated in the Bahamas, the International Millionaires Club.
[36:26] Speaker 2: That's what he called.
[36:27] Speaker 3: Wow, that sounds like something tell you would come up with.
[36:30] Speaker 3: Now part of the Players Club is the International Millionaire's.
[36:33] Speaker 4: Club and then also the International Horse Owners Club. Now
[36:37] Speaker 4: both of those got struck off the registries by nineteen
[36:39] Speaker 4: ninety five.
[36:40] Speaker 2: But wait, there's more more.
[36:42] Speaker 4: So in May of twenty ten, Gillespie gave an interview
[36:47] Speaker 4: with the Sunday Mail. And this this is before the
[36:50] Speaker 4: Panama papers leak, but after his various other custs. So
[36:54] Speaker 4: he said that quote, he and his fellow fraudsters had
[36:57] Speaker 4: fooled everyone involved him. Fine Cotton was never supposed to win.
[37:03] Speaker 3: They bet the other.
[37:05] Speaker 2: He said that.
[37:06] Speaker 4: He made one point eight million dollars even though there
[37:10] Speaker 4: was a two million dollar loss in bets. He said
[37:12] Speaker 4: he was a double agent.
[37:14] Speaker 3: That's what I was guessing, and that the.
[37:15] Speaker 4: Double sting involved his crime syndicate. To actually back Harbor
[37:19] Speaker 4: Gold to win.
[37:21] Speaker 3: Was wondering, because that's the favorite, if you will, and
[37:24] Speaker 3: if the odds move enough and their odds change and
[37:26] Speaker 3: you can still get like an eight to one payout.
[37:28] Speaker 2: Or any right.
[37:29] Speaker 4: And so they had indeed talked up Fine Cotton like
[37:32] Speaker 4: it was a hot tip.
[37:33] Speaker 3: Sure, a whole lot of people sawers on it.
[37:35] Speaker 4: He told the paper that it all went back to
[37:37] Speaker 4: that underworld bookmaker I mentioned up top mixed Sayers. Yes,
[37:42] Speaker 4: when Sayers brought Gillespie to his house in Sydney back
[37:45] Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty four, they did discuss this ring in,
[37:48] Speaker 4: But what Sayers wanted to talk about is that he
[37:51] Speaker 4: had recently been tricked by a rival in a fixed.
[37:54] Speaker 2: Race and he wanted revenge.
[37:55] Speaker 4: Yaz, So this is getting more and more, Guy Ritchie
[37:59] Speaker 4: to so that. Harold's son reported that quote. Sayers had
[38:03] Speaker 4: been looking for someone who could pull a ring in
[38:05] Speaker 4: and was introduced to Gillespie by notorious armed robber Bertram
[38:09] Speaker 4: Douglas Kidd. The pair had met in Brisbane's Bogo Roade jail.
[38:13] Speaker 3: Wow.
[38:14] Speaker 4: Sayers financed the entire ring in operation, which ultimately netted
[38:18] Speaker 4: him twelve million dollars according to Gillespie, What yeah, So
[38:23] Speaker 4: was Hayden in on this? According to Gillespie, No, Gillespie
[38:28] Speaker 4: had everyone he was working with as well as sayers rival,
[38:31] Speaker 4: convinced that fine Cotton would win and this was the play.
[38:36] Speaker 4: And as for the crowd shouting about the ring in
[38:39] Speaker 4: and calling for the stewards, ye, Gillespie said he and
[38:42] Speaker 4: Sayer's men were the ones who started the chant and
[38:45] Speaker 4: got everyone all gin d up. And so after the wagon, Yeah,
[38:50] Speaker 4: Sayer paid Gillespie his share of the winnings one point
[38:53] Speaker 4: eight million dollars and then Gillespie put it into an
[38:56] Speaker 4: offshore account. And he said Sayers made at least twelve
[39:00] Speaker 4: million off the whole.
[39:01] Speaker 3: Off of this four seed race.
[39:03] Speaker 2: Uh huh.
[39:05] Speaker 4: Sayers was a bad man with a lot of bad
[39:07] Speaker 4: business besides horse race fixing, So it wasn't shocking when
[39:11] Speaker 4: he met a tragic in the next year nineteen eighty five.
[39:14] Speaker 2: Ah, so he barely got to enjoy that twelve million.
[39:17] Speaker 4: Gillespie said that when he went on the lamb Durnking
[39:20] Speaker 4: by the way.
[39:20] Speaker 3: There, it was revenge against his revenge.
[39:23] Speaker 4: No, it was a totally separate Yeah, a totally separate thing.
[39:26] Speaker 3: So Gillespie, then what happens with him?
[39:27] Speaker 4: Gillespie He said that when he went on the lamb
[39:30] Speaker 4: during the trial, it was because a Queensland racing minister
[39:33] Speaker 4: warned him that there was a hit out on him.
[39:36] Speaker 3: Oh.
[39:36] Speaker 4: So it wasn't that like, oh, if I run, I
[39:38] Speaker 4: won't have to go to court. It was like I
[39:39] Speaker 4: have to live.
[39:40] Speaker 3: Do you believe it?
[39:41] Speaker 2: Who knows? So Gillespie.
[39:44] Speaker 4: He gets sentenced to four years, but he only did
[39:46] Speaker 4: five months behind bars, and then he had two years
[39:48] Speaker 4: house arrest. And when he went to Asia to quote
[39:51] Speaker 4: run bars, he said he was actually buying them. That
[39:54] Speaker 4: he used his one point eight million to buy restaurants
[39:57] Speaker 4: and bars in Thailand and Malaysia, and and he got
[40:00] Speaker 4: hooked up in racehorse stuff over there. When he gave
[40:04] Speaker 4: his interview, he said he'd gone on the straight and narrow,
[40:07] Speaker 4: that he was crime free after three hundred and fifty
[40:09] Speaker 4: convictions over the years.
[40:11] Speaker 3: Unbelievable, unbelievable.
[40:13] Speaker 4: So the same year as the Bombshell interview, Hayden spoke
[40:16] Speaker 4: up and he said, quote people have always asked why
[40:19] Speaker 4: I didn't go to the cops.
[40:21] Speaker 2: I say, are you kidding? They were crooks.
[40:23] Speaker 4: It's going to be very interesting when Underbelly, which is
[40:26] Speaker 4: like an investigative reporting thing, covers Queensland, because they are
[40:30] Speaker 4: going to have to tell the full story of Fine Cotton.
[40:34] Speaker 4: There's a book about the whole thing called The Fine
[40:36] Speaker 4: Cotton Fiasco by Peter Hoisted and Pat Shell.
[40:39] Speaker 3: No movie that I know of, not yet.
[40:42] Speaker 4: Yeah, so Zaren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
[40:47] Speaker 3: So the dominion of mckelzy deck. I just want to
[40:49] Speaker 3: bring it back to do the micronation where they're selling
[40:52] Speaker 3: passports too. You know that I have a show now
[40:56] Speaker 3: it's called Welcome to Zakistan.
[40:58] Speaker 4: I was hoping you'd talk about that because as I
[41:00] Speaker 4: saw a micronation, I was like, I can't wait to
[41:02] Speaker 4: till zero.
[41:02] Speaker 3: It's exactly so the host and I'm one of the
[41:06] Speaker 3: co hosts, right So, Ryan Murdoch and Gabby Watts, they
[41:08] Speaker 3: were the ones who went out and to micro con
[41:10] Speaker 3: and in the first episode you hear they go and
[41:13] Speaker 3: meet all these people who are like, oh, I've got
[41:16] Speaker 3: a micronation. I've got a micronation. I've got a micronation,
[41:19] Speaker 3: and you get a sense of how these people are.
[41:21] Speaker 3: It's so ripe for this. Okay, great, but mostly it's
[41:24] Speaker 3: really well meaning people. Anyway, well like seaaland right totally
[41:29] Speaker 3: we covered that one. Yeah, So anyway, check out the
[41:32] Speaker 3: Escape from Zakistan's new podcast. It's so good, so good
[41:36] Speaker 3: the idea of these people. I will I was surprised
[41:38] Speaker 3: that that not more crime has come out of micronations
[41:41] Speaker 3: because you've got the paperwork and the presentation and so
[41:43] Speaker 3: many people online fall for this kind of stuff. It's like, oh, yeah,
[41:47] Speaker 3: we're a country. They're like, oh yeah, you just haven't
[41:49] Speaker 3: heard of it yet. They're like, oh really new country. Awesome,
[41:52] Speaker 3: new country dropped. I mean, people are so like silly
[41:55] Speaker 3: these days. I anyway, I was blown away that they
[41:58] Speaker 3: got ahead of the curve so early days. That's good. Deck,
[42:02] Speaker 3: what a weird deep pull.
[42:03] Speaker 2: You're right.
[42:04] Speaker 4: Can we talk about how you're the hardest working man
[42:07] Speaker 4: in the podcast business because you've got Rumble that's out
[42:10] Speaker 4: and you've got Zakistan special episodes if you want to
[42:14] Speaker 4: hear Moriz Aaron.
[42:15] Speaker 2: There's a lot of places.
[42:16] Speaker 3: Five episodes a week. Anyway, what's your special takeaway, Elizabeth?
[42:21] Speaker 4: My takeaway is that this is a complete guy Ritchie movie.
[42:26] Speaker 4: Like I could see I can't think of the casting
[42:29] Speaker 4: off the top of my head, but I can see
[42:31] Speaker 4: I could.
[42:31] Speaker 2: See the character type oh totally.
[42:33] Speaker 4: And like the flash cuts and the songs and like,
[42:37] Speaker 4: and I just I love the reveal of the bright
[42:40] Speaker 4: red race.
[42:41] Speaker 3: That was amazing. And also the revenge, the fact that
[42:43] Speaker 3: this is all a revenge that sealed the deal from
[42:46] Speaker 3: you guy Richie the Red Horse, and then like trying
[42:49] Speaker 3: to die in the backyard trying to die a horse?
[42:53] Speaker 4: I mean, does the producer have the rights? And that's
[42:55] Speaker 4: why this hasn't been made.
[42:57] Speaker 3: Something like this you could turn into a movie because
[42:59] Speaker 3: there's plenty of stuff in the new papers. You just
[43:01] Speaker 3: work with that. You don't need to like get the
[43:03] Speaker 3: IP of the book or buy the horse, like homie.
[43:05] Speaker 2: Are you listening, guy Ritchie?
[43:06] Speaker 3: Yeah? Guy seriously called Elizabeth. She got you covered what
[43:11] Speaker 3: I do need.
[43:12] Speaker 4: My other takeaway is how badly I need to talk
[43:14] Speaker 4: back Dave.
[43:18] Speaker 3: Oh my god, I legit.
[43:29] Speaker 6: Hi is Aaron and Elizabeth. I just wanted to share
[43:32] Speaker 6: this really weird during I have last night with both
[43:35] Speaker 6: of you in it. I don't really remember the details
[43:38] Speaker 6: all that well, other than to say that Zaren was
[43:40] Speaker 6: there with me. But the thought that I the part
[43:43] Speaker 6: that I thought was really funny was that Elizabeth was
[43:46] Speaker 6: there narrating the entire thing, and she was doing it
[43:50] Speaker 6: in an accent, although not in the hey everybody, it's
[43:54] Speaker 6: me boys, Just how you'd get a kick out of that.
[44:00] Speaker 2: I love invading people's dreams. I also want to apologize for.
[44:04] Speaker 3: Invading people's dreams. What a rare privilege that is?
[44:07] Speaker 2: I want to know like, what was the action of it? Like,
[44:09] Speaker 2: you know what happened? What was I narrating? Do tell?
[44:14] Speaker 2: That's it. That's all I have for today.
[44:18] Speaker 4: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com.
[44:21] Speaker 4: Lots of good hilarious merch. We're at Ridiculous Crime on Instagram.
[44:26] Speaker 4: We're also on Blue Sky. I didn't mention Twitter because
[44:31] Speaker 4: can we get off of Twitter? Yeah? Let's email us
[44:35] Speaker 4: Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com and then.
[44:37] Speaker 2: Please download the free iHeart app. Leave us a talkback,
[44:41] Speaker 2: say something hilarious.
[44:43] Speaker 3: We can put you on this show.
[44:44] Speaker 2: Reach out.
[44:51] Speaker 4: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,
[44:54] Speaker 4: produced and edited by Vice president of claral Equine Beauty
[44:58] Speaker 4: Dave Kusten, starring Annie Rutger as Judith. Research is by
[45:02] Speaker 4: Buttery Leather, Marissa Brown and knotted lycra.
[45:05] Speaker 2: Andrea Song Sharpened Hear.
[45:07] Speaker 4: The theme song is by Ruff Lennon, Thomas Lee and
[45:10] Speaker 4: Shiny Spandex. Travis Dutton. Host wardrobe is provided by Botany
[45:14] Speaker 4: five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot and Mister Andrea.
[45:18] Speaker 4: Executive producers are Silky Tweed, Ben Bollen and Fluffy Wool, Noel.
[45:23] Speaker 7: Brown, Disquime, Say It One More Times Crime.
[45:35] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts
[45:38] Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
[45:42] Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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