# Discussion of Timeless Wisdom - What Marcus Aurelius' Meditations Can Teach Us

An episode of [The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1597045207), 16 Dec 2024, 13 min.

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## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: But feel like, I don't know, like you could use
[0:01] Speaker 1: a little ancient wisdom to deal with you know, modern life.
[0:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[0:06] Speaker 1: Well today we're diving deep into Meditations, okay, which is uh,
[0:10] Speaker 1: it's the personal journal of Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, right,
[0:15] Speaker 1: and trust me, this isn't just some boring history lesson Okay.
[0:18] Speaker 1: It's actually got some really relevant advice on how to
[0:24] Speaker 1: deal with stress, sure, how to make tough choices okay,
[0:29] Speaker 1: and how to find some kind of peace even if
[0:31] Speaker 1: you're like a twenty first century go getter.
[0:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really fascinating.
[0:35] Speaker 3: You know, You've got this emperor and he's dealing with
[0:37] Speaker 3: like wars and betrayals, running this huge empire. But when
[0:41] Speaker 3: you read Meditations, it's it's kind of surprising, actually, yeah,
[0:45] Speaker 3: how much the stuff he worries about feels you know,
[0:47] Speaker 3: like kind of familiar right even today, like.
[0:50] Speaker 1: Oddly comforted in a way I don't know. Yeah, and
[0:53] Speaker 1: speaking of things that we can and can't control, which
[0:56] Speaker 1: you know, let's be honest, that feels like like half
[0:59] Speaker 1: the battle these.
[1:00] Speaker 2: It really does.
[1:01] Speaker 1: That is a huge theme that Marcus really keeps coming
[1:04] Speaker 1: back to.
[1:05] Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it's not like he's talking about, you know,
[1:07] Speaker 3: like controlling the weather or the stock market or anything
[1:11] Speaker 3: like that. He's talking about focusing on what you can
[1:14] Speaker 3: influence your own thoughts, reactions, the choices that you make.
[1:19] Speaker 3: Like he's got this great line. He says, you have
[1:22] Speaker 3: power over your mind, not outside events. Realize this and
[1:26] Speaker 3: you will find strength.
[1:28] Speaker 1: It's so true, and it's so easy to forget that,
[1:31] Speaker 1: especially when you're like in the thick of it.
[1:33] Speaker 3: Oh.
[1:33] Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, when you're like glued to social media,
[1:37] Speaker 1: comparing yourself to everyone else's like you know, highlight reel,
[1:41] Speaker 1: or you're just facing down a mountain of deadlines at work.
[1:44] Speaker 1: It's like, what would markets really as tell us to do?
[1:47] Speaker 3: Put down the phone, I think, so, yeah, take a breath, refocus.
[1:50] Speaker 2: What is it you can actually impact here?
[1:52] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[1:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where the real power is, right, And it's
[1:55] Speaker 3: not about being passive either. It's about choosing where you
[1:59] Speaker 3: direct your ener Marcus Aurelius would say that by letting
[2:03] Speaker 3: go of this need to control you know, everything outside
[2:06] Speaker 3: of you, we free ourselves up to focus on what
[2:09] Speaker 3: really matters our character, our values, our actions right now
[2:13] Speaker 3: in this.
[2:14] Speaker 1: Moment, which leads us to I think another major theme
[2:17] Speaker 1: in meditations, living a virtuous life. Yeah, but like not
[2:23] Speaker 1: in a stuffy philosopher kind of way, right, No, No,
[2:26] Speaker 1: it's actually really practical even for us today.
[2:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, and in a world that is like obsessed with,
[2:31] Speaker 3: you know, just short term games and instant gratification. I
[2:34] Speaker 3: think his focus on virtue is it's kind of radical
[2:37] Speaker 3: even now. Marcus aurelia Is he really believed in living
[2:40] Speaker 3: by a set of core principles, Like he had these
[2:43] Speaker 3: four wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance, okay, and letting those
[2:48] Speaker 3: principles guide the decisions that he made whether anyone was
[2:51] Speaker 3: watching or not.
[2:51] Speaker 1: So it's almost like having this internal compass, yes, that
[2:55] Speaker 1: keeps you on track even when it feels like everything
[2:57] Speaker 1: around you is just chaotic and unpredictable. But like, how
[3:01] Speaker 1: do you actually do that? Live by those principles? I
[3:03] Speaker 1: mean it's tough when there's so much pressure to chase,
[3:07] Speaker 1: you know, the next shiny object, the next the next distraction,
[3:10] Speaker 1: the next whatever.
[3:11] Speaker 3: It's the work, right, that's where the real work begins.
[3:13] Speaker 3: And Marcus Aurelius wasn't like just preaching this stuff. He
[3:17] Speaker 3: was constantly struggling with these ideas in his own life right,
[3:20] Speaker 3: and you know, he used his journal as the space
[3:23] Speaker 3: to reflect, to hold himself accountable to his values.
[3:27] Speaker 1: It's less about being perfect then, yeah, and more about
[3:31] Speaker 1: constantly trying to be better, trying to close that gap
[3:35] Speaker 1: between who you are now and who you want to
[3:39] Speaker 1: be totally sort of like a personal development feedback loop
[3:43] Speaker 1: powered by you know, ancient wisdom.
[3:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.
[3:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[3:47] Speaker 3: He actually says, just that you do the right thing,
[3:49] Speaker 3: the rest doesn't matter. So it's about making the best
[3:52] Speaker 3: choice you can right in each moment, even when it's hard,
[3:56] Speaker 3: even when no one's going to like pat you on
[3:58] Speaker 3: the back for it, right right.
[4:00] Speaker 1: It's that quiet commitment to just doing what you believe
[4:03] Speaker 1: is right day after day that ultimately shapes you.
[4:07] Speaker 2: That's it.
[4:07] Speaker 1: It really makes you think, like, what would my meditations
[4:10] Speaker 1: look like? What values would I be?
[4:13] Speaker 3: You know, wrestling with Oh that's a great question. And
[4:15] Speaker 3: speaking of wrestling with big questions, you know, Marcus Aurelius
[4:18] Speaker 3: also had a lot to say about impermanence, about the
[4:21] Speaker 3: fact that everything changes. But before you think, okay, well
[4:25] Speaker 3: that sounds a little bleak, like hear me out for
[4:28] Speaker 3: a second.
[4:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's not about being pessimistic, right, or giving
[4:33] Speaker 1: up on finding joy or anything. It's just accepting that,
[4:37] Speaker 1: you know, things change. It's like that saying this too
[4:39] Speaker 1: shall pass exactly, you know, the good and.
[4:41] Speaker 2: The bad exactly.
[4:43] Speaker 3: And in that acceptance and accepting impermanence, you can find
[4:46] Speaker 3: a really it's strange, but a kind of freedom in that.
[4:50] Speaker 1: Okay.
[4:50] Speaker 3: It lets us enjoy those good moments even more knowing
[4:53] Speaker 3: that they're not going to last forever, and then also
[4:55] Speaker 3: get through those tough times with a little bit more perspective.
[4:58] Speaker 3: He actually says, all things fade and quickly turn to
[5:02] Speaker 3: myth quickly too, utter oblivion drowns them.
[5:06] Speaker 1: Wow, it's a good thing he had you to like
[5:10] Speaker 1: sum that up for us.
[5:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, he can get a little you know.
[5:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a little intense sometimes, our boy Marcus.
[5:15] Speaker 2: A little bit.
[5:17] Speaker 1: But it is a good reminder though, not to get
[5:19] Speaker 1: too attached to anything, because, I mean, change is really
[5:22] Speaker 1: the only constant, right, Yeah, but then how do we
[5:25] Speaker 1: how do we square that with like striving for meaning
[5:28] Speaker 1: in our lives? Right? If it's all like temporary, then
[5:32] Speaker 1: what's the point I'm going to guess Marcus really has
[5:34] Speaker 1: had some thoughts on that too. Oh he did.
[5:35] Speaker 2: He did.
[5:36] Speaker 3: And this is this is where I think his Stoic
[5:38] Speaker 3: philosophy is really helpful actually, because he didn't see impermanence
[5:43] Speaker 3: as this like reason to despair. It was more like
[5:47] Speaker 3: this this call to action, like, hey, this is this
[5:51] Speaker 3: is your reminder to focus on what really matters in
[5:53] Speaker 3: the grand scheme of things.
[5:55] Speaker 1: So it's about finding like finding meaning, finding purpose. Yeah,
[5:59] Speaker 1: even if even and if those things themselves don't last.
[6:01] Speaker 2: Forever, exactly exactly.
[6:03] Speaker 3: And for Marcus Aurelius, I mean, what it really boiled
[6:06] Speaker 3: down to was living virtuously, you know, serving something larger
[6:11] Speaker 3: than himself, even in those like small everyday actions.
[6:14] Speaker 2: It's powerful though.
[6:16] Speaker 3: It reminds you that even though, yeah, your time is limited,
[6:20] Speaker 3: the impact you have doesn't have to be.
[6:22] Speaker 1: It's like he's shifting our perspective. It's like instead of
[6:25] Speaker 1: that scarcity mindset, it's more abundant, Like we've got this
[6:29] Speaker 1: one precious life, right, and instead of like clinging to it,
[6:33] Speaker 1: you know, out of fear, we can actually choose to
[6:35] Speaker 1: live it like fully, make it meaningful.
[6:37] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, precisely.
[6:39] Speaker 3: And and you know, I think this actually ties into
[6:41] Speaker 3: another Stoic principle that shows up a lot in meditations,
[6:44] Speaker 3: viewing challenges as opportunities for growth. Okay, remember we were
[6:48] Speaker 3: talking about controlling the controllables. Yeah, this is like an
[6:51] Speaker 3: extension of that.
[6:52] Speaker 2: Idea in a lot of ways.
[6:54] Speaker 1: So you mean, like, I don't know, like when you're
[6:56] Speaker 1: stuck in traffic ya and you could either like you know,
[6:59] Speaker 1: rage at the universe or use that time to like
[7:01] Speaker 1: listen to a podcast, or I guess you know if
[7:03] Speaker 1: your Marcu sirelis jot down some some life changing wisdom
[7:07] Speaker 1: in your journal.
[7:08] Speaker 3: Exactly, it's that choice, right, how are you going to
[7:11] Speaker 3: respond to these obstacles that life is just constantly throwing
[7:15] Speaker 3: at you?
[7:15] Speaker 1: Right?
[7:15] Speaker 3: And he had this great line he said, Uh, the
[7:18] Speaker 3: impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way
[7:22] Speaker 3: becomes the way. So he's looking at those challenges, those
[7:25] Speaker 3: roadblocks as opportunities to practice those virtues that he talked about.
[7:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like he saw life as one giant
[7:33] Speaker 1: training montage, right. But with like you know, every challenge
[7:39] Speaker 1: is an opportunity to level up your your mental game,
[7:42] Speaker 1: your emotional game.
[7:43] Speaker 2: It really is.
[7:44] Speaker 3: It's like a like a mental gym membership, except maybe
[7:47] Speaker 3: with fewer burpies and a little more philosophical reflection.
[7:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, and sign me up for that version.
[7:51] Speaker 2: Right.
[7:52] Speaker 3: And here's the thing though that I think is really interesting.
[7:54] Speaker 3: Marcus Aurelius knew that a lot of the time, our
[7:56] Speaker 3: biggest obstacles aren't actually coming from outside of us.
[7:59] Speaker 2: They're coming from our our own minds.
[8:00] Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And that is where like taming that inner
[8:04] Speaker 1: critic comes in, which I think we can all relate
[8:07] Speaker 1: to that. Right, especially in the age of social media,
[8:09] Speaker 1: it's like our inner critics have their own you know platform. Now.
[8:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like they have a megaphone and it's and
[8:16] Speaker 3: it's on all the time.
[8:16] Speaker 2: The battery never runs out.
[8:18] Speaker 3: But that's exactly why I think these insights from Marcus
[8:21] Speaker 3: Aurelius are so relevant, because he reminds us that we
[8:25] Speaker 3: do have a choice and how we respond to our
[8:27] Speaker 3: own thoughts our emotions.
[8:28] Speaker 2: We don't have to.
[8:29] Speaker 3: Just be like at the mercy of whatever our inner
[8:33] Speaker 3: critic is is throwing at.
[8:35] Speaker 1: Us, which honestly, that's kind of a comforting thought. But okay,
[8:39] Speaker 1: how do we actually do that, like quiet that inner critic?
[8:42] Speaker 1: How do we like reframe those negative thoughts, those spirals
[8:46] Speaker 1: that we get into easier said than done.
[8:48] Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, it's definitely a practice. It's not like
[8:50] Speaker 3: one and done. But Marcus Aurelius, I think he gives
[8:53] Speaker 3: us some really practical things to try. I remember that
[8:55] Speaker 3: line about the power of our own estimations. Yea, he said,
[8:58] Speaker 3: if you are distressed by anything external, the pain is
[9:02] Speaker 3: not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate
[9:05] Speaker 3: of it.
[9:06] Speaker 2: And this you have the power to revoke at any moment.
[9:08] Speaker 1: So it's not about like pretending things are fine no
[9:11] Speaker 1: when they're not. No, no, no, But it's more about
[9:14] Speaker 1: choosing how we like frame it, Yes, how we let
[9:17] Speaker 1: those experiences like impact.
[9:19] Speaker 2: Us exactly exactly.
[9:21] Speaker 3: It's it's about recognizing that our thoughts, at the end
[9:24] Speaker 3: of the day are just thoughts. They're not necessarily true, right,
[9:27] Speaker 3: They're not like these objective facts, and we get to
[9:31] Speaker 3: choose which ones we're going to buy into, which ones
[9:33] Speaker 3: we give power over us.
[9:34] Speaker 1: It's like we get to, I don't know, hit.
[9:36] Speaker 3: Through totally, and that is such a useful skill, not
[9:45] Speaker 3: just for you know, dealing with your own thoughts, but
[9:47] Speaker 3: like navigating the world too, especially now, I mean think
[9:51] Speaker 3: about it, there is so much information coming at us
[9:53] Speaker 3: all the time.
[9:54] Speaker 2: From every direction.
[9:56] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Yes, it's it's overwhelming. If if Marcus
[10:00] Speaker 1: at least we're writing meditations today, I bet he would
[10:02] Speaker 1: have a lot to say about that. About information overload,
[10:04] Speaker 1: I think so too. It's like we're all living in
[10:06] Speaker 1: the Roman Forum, except instead of like gladiators and chariots,
[10:11] Speaker 1: it's just news feeds and notifications.
[10:13] Speaker 3: And everyone's buying for your attention constantly.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, he would.
[10:17] Speaker 3: Probably tell us to be really intentional about the information
[10:20] Speaker 3: that we're taking in, you know, create space for reflection. Yeah,
[10:25] Speaker 3: a little quiet contemplation midst all the noise, midst all
[10:28] Speaker 3: the noise.
[10:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like curate our mental diets a little bit. Yes,
[10:32] Speaker 1: there you go, Quality over quantity absolutely, not just letting
[10:35] Speaker 1: ourselves get get swept up in the in the endless
[10:38] Speaker 1: stream of everything.
[10:40] Speaker 3: And you know, remember even back then, I mean he
[10:42] Speaker 3: was surrounded by this stuff too, political intrigue, rumors, everyone
[10:48] Speaker 3: wanted a piece of his time, right, right, And he
[10:51] Speaker 3: knew even then how important it was to step back
[10:55] Speaker 3: find some stillness.
[10:56] Speaker 2: Even in the middle of you know, chaos.
[10:59] Speaker 1: So it's not like this whole like tame your inner
[11:01] Speaker 1: critic fine piece. Thing is about becoming some kind of robot. No, no, no,
[11:06] Speaker 1: Marcus Arelius. I mean he was an emperor, he's a general,
[11:08] Speaker 1: a husband, a father.
[11:10] Speaker 3: He wasn't saying to like detach from life. It was
[11:13] Speaker 3: more about engaging with intention.
[11:15] Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, Like he was fully immersed in the world,
[11:19] Speaker 1: but he chose to show up with purpose, with clarity.
[11:22] Speaker 1: It makes me think of that line where he says,
[11:25] Speaker 1: waste no more time arguing about what a good man
[11:27] Speaker 1: should be. Be one.
[11:29] Speaker 3: It's a call to action, right it is. It's about
[11:31] Speaker 3: taking all of this the virtue, and controlling your reactions
[11:35] Speaker 3: and accepting impermanence and then actually living it like day after.
[11:39] Speaker 1: Day, exactly exactly. And I think that's why meditation still
[11:42] Speaker 1: feels relevant. You know. It's not a bunch of lofty ideas.
[11:45] Speaker 1: It's like this really practical guide for how to be
[11:49] Speaker 1: a human, right right? And I don't know whether you
[11:52] Speaker 1: are facing down like a barbarian invasion or just a
[11:55] Speaker 1: really stressful week at work, the principles are they still work?
[11:59] Speaker 3: Azeing how some thing's ever change, you know, Well, we
[12:03] Speaker 3: have covered so much in this deep diet, Ancient wisdom,
[12:06] Speaker 3: modern day anxiety, is the works. But if there's one
[12:10] Speaker 3: thing I hope you take away from this conversation, it's
[12:12] Speaker 3: that you have more control over your experience, Yes.
[12:15] Speaker 1: Over your inner world.
[12:16] Speaker 2: You really do.
[12:17] Speaker 1: Then you think you do sometimes way more, yeah, way more.
[12:20] Speaker 3: And that that by focusing on what you can control,
[12:24] Speaker 3: your reactions, your choices, even just you know, trying to
[12:28] Speaker 3: live a good life, you can actually find peace.
[12:31] Speaker 1: You can and purpose even.
[12:33] Speaker 2: When it feels like everything around you is just like crazy.
[12:36] Speaker 3: So next time you're feeling you know, stressed or overwhelmed
[12:39] Speaker 3: by by life in the twenty first century, maybe just
[12:43] Speaker 3: you know, think about Marcus Aurelius for a second. Yeah,
[12:46] Speaker 3: take a breath, ask yourself, what can I control right
[12:50] Speaker 3: now in this moment, and then just like choose to
[12:54] Speaker 3: move forward with intention. You might be surprised at the
[12:56] Speaker 3: strength that you find.
[12:57] Speaker 1: I think so too, And who.
[12:58] Speaker 3: Knows, maybe it'll even inspire you to start your own meditation.
[13:01] Speaker 3: Oh I like that, your own journal, you know, chronicling
[13:04] Speaker 3: your own search for a.
[13:05] Speaker 2: Life well lived.
[13:06] Speaker 1: That's a great idea.
[13:07] Speaker 3: Until next time, keep seeking wisdom even in those unexpected places.
[13:12] Speaker 1: Yes,

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