# Joe Skipper x India Lee

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 14 Aug 2025, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698040-joe-skipper-x-india-lee.mp3

This week Joe is joined by India Lee and they discuss Indie almost quitting the sport, dating pro triathletes, Joes dog getting disqualified from park run, their jobs before being professional triathletes, mindsets in triathlon, the joys of training alone, what makes a perfect training partner and much, much more! Nord VPN: Take advantage of a great deal with Nord VPN use the code triathlonhour or visit nordvpn.com/triathlonhour to get a huge discount in the 2 year plans PLUS 4 extra months! It is risk free with Nord's 30 days money back guarantee! Precision: Use the code TTH25 to get 15% off your first order with Precision at Precision Fuel & Hydration or subscribe to the Patreon and access the link that will save you 20% on every order, not just your first Patreon Pillar: Use the code TTH to get 15% off your first order with Pillar Performance at Pillar Performance or use The Feed for North American customers Patreon: We put a lot of time & energy into bringing you this podcast every week and have done for 4 years now. If you appreciate what we do, we would love your support and you can do so for less than the cost of a coffee per week on Patreon - Patreon link

## Transcript

[0:21] SPEAKER_06: Alright guys, today I'm joined with India Lee.
[0:23] SPEAKER_06: She's fresh off the T 100 in London.
[0:26] SPEAKER_06: Looking pretty fresh this morning, India.
[0:28] SPEAKER_06: How are you uh feeling?
[0:30] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm feeling alright, thank you.
[0:32] SPEAKER_04: I um yeah, raced T 100 at the weekend and then uh and then I flew over to Lanzarotti yesterday, so it's day one of camp today, and it's uh it's pretty hot and it's been a busy morning just like getting my bearings and getting settled in ready for a couple of weeks out here.
[0:51] SPEAKER_06: Oh wow, I didn't realise we were in uh Lanzarotti.
[0:53] SPEAKER_06: I thought you were like in ho at home at the moment.
[0:56] SPEAKER_06: I didn't realise you like literally flew straight away to get out there for a training camp.
[1:00] SPEAKER_03: Straight out, yeah.
[1:02] SPEAKER_06: How hot is it then out there?
[1:03] SPEAKER_06: Because I've only ever been there in like January, February time.
[1:06] SPEAKER_06: Is it absolutely roasting?
[1:08] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's really hot.
[1:09] SPEAKER_04: It's like um low 30s at the moment, but um it's gonna get a bit warmer.
[1:15] SPEAKER_04: That's that's why I'm here.
[1:17] SPEAKER_06: Bit of heat.
[1:18] SPEAKER_06: Who are you out there for training with?
[1:19] SPEAKER_04: Uh Sam Potter, my coach, he's on his way out, and then Serena Carter, who um Sam also coaches, she's out here, and then we're trying to recruit a few others to come out because um yeah, the more the more.
[1:32] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, a big squad of you.
[1:33] SPEAKER_06: Are you is it but are you trying to recruit people then that's um coaches as well?
[1:37] SPEAKER_06: So there's like or will it be like anyone?
[1:39] SPEAKER_04: Uh well we're trying to get Rosie Wilde to come out because Sam also coaches her, and then it's um yeah, just a group of girls, and then Sam's got to cope with all of us.
[1:49] SPEAKER_06: Will will it be military style?
[1:51] SPEAKER_06: Because when I've been on a training camp with Sam before in the past, he's very much likes to be starting everything five minutes early and uh it wants to be on time.
[2:01] SPEAKER_06: He doesn't like well, he didn't when I was on the camp with him like anyone who's late.
[2:05] SPEAKER_06: Is he still like that or has he mellowed a bit?
[2:08] SPEAKER_04: Um no, he's he tries to be like that, but unfortunately when he's surrounded by all us girls, he um he doesn't always win the war, so yeah, we call the shots of it.
[2:23] SPEAKER_02: He has to go with the flow.
[2:25] SPEAKER_06: How um did it come around with you getting coached by Sam?
[2:29] SPEAKER_06: Because I mean, fr from like on the outside looking in, it seemed like you were one of the first kind of like top like professional athletes.
[2:37] SPEAKER_06: I mean there might have been others before, but like one of the first that he was coaching and obviously did really well.
[2:42] SPEAKER_06: I remember seeing you win Miami, was it last year?
[2:46] SPEAKER_06: Started last last year.
[2:47] SPEAKER_06: Uh yeah, started last year.
[2:48] SPEAKER_06: And I didn't realise you were coached by yeah, I didn't realise you were coached by Sam then.
[2:53] SPEAKER_06: Like how did that come about?
[2:54] SPEAKER_06: Because he hadn't been coaching like high-level people for that long, had he?
[2:58] SPEAKER_06: So how did you what made you take the plunge?
[3:00] SPEAKER_04: Uh well uh I'd done a training camp with him in Lanzarote uh like the year before, so in 20 must have been 2022.
[3:10] SPEAKER_04: Um and that's when I feel like first met him and his wife Hannah.
[3:14] SPEAKER_04: And um yeah, just like I just got on with them really well as like mates and yeah, spent a lot of time with them.
[3:23] SPEAKER_04: And um then it got to the end of the 2022 season and um I like needed a new coach and I tried to self-coach for a couple of weeks, but that is not it's not for me.
[3:38] SPEAKER_04: I don't know how you do it.
[3:39] SPEAKER_04: Um it's not for me.
[3:41] SPEAKER_04: And um Sam said, Oh like I'll I'll help you out with just setting some sc structure and some sessions and stuff.
[3:49] SPEAKER_04: And um then after a couple of weeks of that, I was like, look, can you just like coach me properly?
[3:55] SPEAKER_04: And yeah, just from then on, he's coached me properly.
[3:58] SPEAKER_04: And um yeah, I really like it because he like I've been in the sport, well, I've been doing sport for quite a long time, and so I've got my ideas and like what I think I need to do, and he like listens to that and takes it on board, and then either totally ignores it and says, Nah, that's not what you need, or or he'll listen and he'll like figure out how to include what I want to do in the training.
[4:24] SPEAKER_04: So, yeah.
[4:25] SPEAKER_06: What was the problem when you were self-coaching him?
[4:27] SPEAKER_06: Like, were you doing too much or too little training?
[4:30] SPEAKER_04: Oh, um, just that I was like all over the place with I just didn't know where to start basically with how to like coach myself because I just overthink everything.
[4:42] SPEAKER_04: I just found it really difficult knowing what I would need and like having like that overall outside perspective um and like critical thinking over what I need to improve and not just gravitating towards doing the sessions that I really enjoyed and feel like I got the most out of all the time.
[4:58] SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, I just need I need somebody else to oversee it and kind of tell me what to do basically.
[5:04] SPEAKER_06: You know, you said there's an example, like uh sometimes you've said to him, like, I want to do this kind of thing, and then he'll like either accept it and be like, Yeah, that's a good idea, or sometimes he'll be like, No way.
[5:13] SPEAKER_06: What's an example of something where you've said, Oh, I'd quite like to do this, and he's been like, Absolutely no way, like that's a terrible idea.
[5:18] SPEAKER_06: Like, what would that be?
[5:20] SPEAKER_06: Have you got any example?
[5:22] SPEAKER_04: Maybe if I suggested it might be a fun idea to go do some cyclocross racing, like three weeks before the start of the season, because it's like a really good uh like high VOT sort of stimulus, it'd be like, Yeah, uh not a good idea, no, no.
[5:39] SPEAKER_06: Really, you're good at cyclocross as well, aren't you?
[5:41] SPEAKER_06: I remember seeing the other year you were up level in the nationals.
[5:44] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I really love it, but um I guess there's a time and a place for it, and if I was self-coached, I'd always gravitate towards doing the the fun stuff rather than maybe like more gritty.
[5:55] SPEAKER_04: How do you like how do you how do you plan your training?
[5:58] SPEAKER_04: That's something I'm fascinating with because you're self-coached.
[6:01] SPEAKER_06: Do you just like chat GPT it or I have you when I started they did it with Chat GPT, it wasn't even around, but I have uh I have used Chat GPT actually when I was in Font Remote at altitude just to give us some rough ideas of like what kind of paces it would think we should do for how long we've been at altitude for you know and what would be equivalent to sea level performance.
[6:21] SPEAKER_06: And I have to say that ChatGPT does seem pretty much bang on with that kind of stuff.
[6:25] SPEAKER_06: Like yeah, yeah, it was really bang on for the kind of paces that we were expecting to hit, and uh so it was uh quite good.
[6:33] SPEAKER_06: But now I've done like a similar kind of structure for a while, and then I just tweak it depending on how races feel like they go and all, you know, because you always go through times, don't you, where you feel like your bike might be quite strong at one point, and then another point in the year it might feel like it's actually a bit of a weakness, so then I kind of just tinker it a little bit, but try not to do like radical changes.
[6:53] SPEAKER_06: But I have been doing like a similar kind of structure for a while.
[6:56] SPEAKER_06: I just like to know what I'm doing on what days to plan stuff.
[6:59] SPEAKER_06: I don't like you know, um completely changing it up from one week to the next, you know what I mean?
[7:05] SPEAKER_06: Like on a Tuesday or Wednesday, one week, and something completely different than a Tuesday or the Wednesday the the following week, just knowing exactly what what kind of thing I'm doing, even if the sessions are different, just knowing like I'm doing a swim and a run on like say a Monday or something like that, and something on a Tuesday so I can plan stuff and then I just can get my head around it.
[7:23] SPEAKER_06: But yeah, I've been doing it for so long now, it just doesn't seem just seems the normal.
[7:28] SPEAKER_06: You just feel like you know what you need, and then uh yeah, and then I just I do chat to some people and get some advice and stuff like that if I'm kind of getting for a crossroads or something, you know, and like you feel like you're plateauing a bit just to see, just to talk things uh over and stuff and see if there's anything to tweak it with.
[7:44] SPEAKER_06: But I kind of feel like when you talk to athletes and stuff, everyone's doing similar kind of sessions anyway, aren't they?
[7:50] SPEAKER_06: It's just where you structure it, isn't it?
[7:52] SPEAKER_06: But like there's no magic session that will like make you yeah, there's no secrets, nothing's gonna randomly make a difference, is it where you do it like a session twice or three times, and all of a sudden you get an extra 20 or 30 watts on your bike is it's just consistency.
[8:06] SPEAKER_06: You know, I actually think the most important thing is actually the sessions aren't as important as keeping the consistency and making sure you don't, you know, overdo it and so you have to take loads of time and doing too little.
[8:18] SPEAKER_06: Just getting the balance right is actually, I think, the most important thing, really.
[8:21] SPEAKER_06: And the sessions are less important.
[8:24] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like the actual the actual substance of sessions, as long as you're like getting the majority of it right, then you just need to tick off day by day.
[8:34] SPEAKER_06: D do you ever go rogue when Sam's coaching you and uh you'd be like you go off piece, there's the training plans there, and you're like, actually, you know what, I'm gonna do this, and uh he'll be like, What the hell are you been doing, India?
[8:45] SPEAKER_04: Like, or you know, you don't upload it so we can't see because you've gone rogue, and uh or is it like you just stick to the never never in bike and run because they get uploaded straight to training peaks, and he's like he's pretty good at being able to like see exactly like what's gone on in the um like in sessions, and like if I've had a stop or whatever, he'd be like, What why did you stop for like 20 minutes then?
[9:10] SPEAKER_04: Be like, I'd a puncture or whatever, you know.
[9:13] SPEAKER_04: Um really in the in the sw in the swim, I'll be able to like because I because I um like I train on my own most of the time.
[9:21] SPEAKER_04: So sometimes in the swim, if there's something like 10 10 by 100, like steady, aerobic, I can't be bothered with stopping that many times, so I'll just do like a K straight through, you know.
[9:32] SPEAKER_04: That's the most rogue I'll give.
[9:35] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and he he knows it as well.
[9:37] SPEAKER_04: So I'll be like, Sam, you sent me the session, it was like he does this one, it's like 10-400s, and I'm like, sometimes I get to the end of a 400, and I I can't be bothered to stop on the wall and like chat to the people who are there, so I'll just carry on for another 400.
[9:55] SPEAKER_06: You know, like they're waiting at the end, they're waiting for me.
[9:59] SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna just carry on.
[10:00] SPEAKER_06: That's it.
[10:00] SPEAKER_06: I'm like I'm swerving them.
[10:02] SPEAKER_04: Especially if the lane's been a bit like Aggie and like there's people in it who like are maybe getting annoyed at you overtaking them so often.
[10:10] SPEAKER_04: I just think nah, I just can't be bothered to stop.
[10:12] SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't want that conversation.
[10:14] SPEAKER_06: Are they other triathletes or are they just members of the public, like breastrokers and stuff?
[10:23] SPEAKER_06: Are you in um are you in Lofborough when you're training, or are you uh down south?
[10:28] SPEAKER_04: No, down south.
[10:29] SPEAKER_04: Uh I sort of at Winchesterpool, yeah.
[10:31] SPEAKER_04: So I'm just lone ranger.
[10:32] SPEAKER_06: I thought you'd move to uh Lofborough, because you go up there quite a bit, don't you, for training?
[10:36] SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, I go up there just because that's where Sam is, so I'll go up there to like check in with him and do like a mini camp, or if I've got a like heat prep before a race, I'll go up there.
[10:47] SPEAKER_04: But yeah, most of the time I'm down down doing my own thing in in Winchester.
[10:52] SPEAKER_04: It's quite nice.
[10:53] SPEAKER_04: Like you're over in Norfolk, and there's like there's not many triathletes around there, other other than your new team being forced to be triathletes.
[11:00] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, there's like uh there's a few uh amateurs and uh that we train with in a little group, but there's not a not a massive amount uh over here, so it's like yeah, pretty much uh you're on your own.
[11:11] SPEAKER_06: Um when I was chatting to Taylor the other day, she said that she was previously going out with a fella, another triathlete, and she wouldn't do it again.
[11:23] SPEAKER_06: Like, what would you think?
[11:25] SPEAKER_06: What would your opinions be on that?
[11:27] SPEAKER_06: Like, would you ever date a triathlete, or would you want to uh would you just go for a civilian because you think a triathlete would be too much, or would it just be like the most you'd go would be like potentially someone who's a runner or a cyclist?
[11:39] SPEAKER_04: I think I don't think I'd go for a triathlete just because it's like yeah, it's a bit it's just a bit much.
[11:45] SPEAKER_04: I would I couldn't handle like the whole all the chat being about triathlon all the time.
[11:50] SPEAKER_04: So like it'd have to be a civilian who had like a normal life and other stuff going on so that you can have normal conversations about like real world stuff rather than like what what what did you ride your threshold reps at today?
[12:05] SPEAKER_06: Do you think though the pros could be with going out with a triathlete that you get to spend more time with them and they would build your bike if you were going to races?
[12:13] SPEAKER_06: Would that be a pro?
[12:15] SPEAKER_04: Or would that be a spending more time with somebody would not would not be a process?
[12:27] SPEAKER_04: Somebody like somebody touching my bike, like they'd have to be like a pro tour level mechanic for me to be able to trust like not some not some dude who's like, yeah, don't worry, love, I can pump up your tires.
[12:41] SPEAKER_04: Like, no, no, I know how to use a bike pump, I'm absolutely fine.
[12:46] SPEAKER_06: So that would be for them two would both be absolute clones.
[12:50] SPEAKER_06: That actually like sends it more the opposite way.
[12:53] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[12:55] SPEAKER_04: Like the thought of going out with somebody who's a triathlet and them going, oh great, like we we can go on training camp together, and it's like, oh, today we've got a four-hour ride, oh brilliant.
[13:06] SPEAKER_04: Like we can sit next to each other, like riding bikes for four hours, and then we're gonna get home and like talk about the fact that we'd just done this four-hour ride.
[13:16] SPEAKER_04: No, I don't I do not want to spend 24-7 with somebody, absolutely not.
[13:23] SPEAKER_06: Would that would it be the would the ma the main con be that you would end up spending too much time with with them?
[13:31] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
[13:31] SPEAKER_03: There'd be no use.
[13:33] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[13:35] SPEAKER_06: But it's some people love that, don't they?
[13:37] SPEAKER_06: Like, because there's some trial leagues, in there, in uh the sport that do it all, don't they?
[13:42] SPEAKER_06: You know, like Reese and Lucy, like they're to they're they must be like literally uns inseparable.
[13:47] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I c I would find it way too intense.
[13:50] SPEAKER_04: But I guess like people people find comfort in different things, don't they?
[13:55] SPEAKER_04: So maybe I just haven't found the bloke that I love enough and to want to spend 24 hours with them.
[14:00] SPEAKER_06: So I reckon if you weren't uh worried about another bloke touching your bike, like uh like Lucy Charles probably isn't, then uh you'd be alright because I reckon Reese does all the bike mechanics.
[14:12] SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, 100%.
[14:13] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[14:14] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[14:15] SPEAKER_04: Maybe that's going wrong.
[14:16] SPEAKER_04: One too precious, too precious about the bikes.
[14:19] SPEAKER_06: I heard that the moat he always gets kicked off when he goes to Asda and he doesn't get the week shopping right, though.
[14:24] SPEAKER_06: Like he's always picking up the wrong thing, yeah, getting too expensive stuff.
[14:28] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[14:29] SPEAKER_04: That's his making the wrong substitutes.
[14:34] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[14:37] SPEAKER_06: I think I I would be like you though.
[14:39] SPEAKER_06: Like, I think if you were spending that much time with someone though, it's like it would be hard, I always think, to like chat with them about what you were gonna say.
[14:47] SPEAKER_06: Because if you were riding with someone, like I just think when you're riding with your mates and stuff, you end up having to catch up, don't you, and stuff like that.
[14:52] SPEAKER_06: But if you were living with a person as well and riding with them as well, like that would be hard to kind of like think about what you were gonna talk about when you were at home.
[15:01] SPEAKER_04: What do you talk about?
[15:01] SPEAKER_04: If you're not spending any time apart, then you can't go back and be like, oh, like you should put a pretty cool thing out today, like, but if they're there, you just go, Oh like, that's cool, isn't it?
[15:12] SPEAKER_06: And then you know so there's another one for the civilian list, then just someone who's uh not an endurance sport.
[15:24] unknown: Yeah.
[15:25] SPEAKER_06: What about then if it was just a cyclist?
[15:28] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that would be alright, because they wouldn't want to go out like training with me because I'd be too slow.
[15:33] SPEAKER_04: I don't want anyone that wants to train with me.
[15:36] SPEAKER_06: Oh right.
[15:36] SPEAKER_04: I like training on my own, so like leaving.
[15:38] SPEAKER_06: Well, if it was a triathlet that likes training by themselves.
[15:41] SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, maybe.
[15:51] SPEAKER_04: This feels like an interview for like um like the triathlet version of f uh like first aides.
[16:00] SPEAKER_06: I like that show.
[16:03] SPEAKER_06: They always pair really um awkward people, don't they?
[16:07] SPEAKER_06: Like when you watch them, don't they?
[16:09] SPEAKER_06: Like they know when they go for like the introduction or what or uh the interview to get on the show, they must just pick people that they know is just gonna be like really awkward when they're chatting because they always just seem to get it bang on, don't they?
[16:21] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'll be good at that.
[16:26] SPEAKER_06: I've got another question for you as well.
[16:28] SPEAKER_06: And uh this one would be if you could swap lives with any person for one year, it can be someone in sport, could be someone not in sport, movie star, could be completely right, anyone you want.
[16:39] SPEAKER_06: Who would it be for one year you live like in their their life to see what it's like?
[16:45] SPEAKER_04: Like who have they got to be alive now?
[16:47] SPEAKER_06: Uh yeah, they've got to be alive now.
[16:50] SPEAKER_04: It would have to be I think it would be interesting to swap lives with somebody who's in a world that's like completely different to mine, to see how see how they get on.
[17:02] SPEAKER_04: What like a movie star, or would it be someone in someone not like yeah, no, it would be somebody who's not famous, that's for sure.
[17:09] SPEAKER_06: Oh right, so just like a normal person.
[17:11] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, maybe like I I'd like to swap lives of like maybe like a farmer or something who just like lives lives like in the middle of nowhere, looks after looks after their land.
[17:22] SPEAKER_04: See how see how that goes for me.
[17:23] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[17:24] SPEAKER_04: Buy a field.
[17:26] SPEAKER_06: Do you think so?
[17:27] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
[17:29] SPEAKER_06: I get the impression from from um chatting to you already India, then that like people like really uh like wind you up certain, like you know, you they grind your gears a bit and you you don't like uh spending time with too many different people.
[17:43] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, because some people it's not that people wind me up uh and that I'm antisocial.
[17:49] SPEAKER_04: I just um I really I like my own company and I'm like pretty quiet and shy and like I'm not I'm not bothered about like needing to search out other people to like get through a day, you know.
[18:04] SPEAKER_04: Like I'm I'm alright on my own.
[18:06] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[18:07] SPEAKER_04: I feel like you're different to that.
[18:11] SPEAKER_06: I like training with other people and stuff like that.
[18:14] SPEAKER_06: I don't mind that, but I I imagine though that you would love it if you had like a four or five hour ride in the mountains by yourself and stuff.
[18:20] SPEAKER_06: That would be like totally you would absolutely like that would be like the top draw for you.
[18:25] SPEAKER_04: That's like that would be like my favourite training day, a long ride in the mountains just on my own.
[18:31] SPEAKER_04: I'd like put podcast, put music put music on, and then yeah, I'd be away.
[18:36] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[18:38] SPEAKER_06: You know, like if you listen to a podcast, do you find it's quite hard though sometimes to like keep on the power?
[18:43] SPEAKER_06: Like I find like if I'm listening to a podcast, even if I'm on like a steady ride, the power just feels so much harder to push than what it should do.
[18:50] SPEAKER_06: Like I like listening to them, but I just find like I think oh I feel bad today.
[18:54] SPEAKER_06: Like, oh the power's well low, and then I put some music on and I'm like 30, 40 watts like higher for like less effort and stuff like that, you know.
[19:01] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
[19:01] SPEAKER_04: I can't listen to a podcast if I've got to do like hard efforts or anything, it has it has to be music.
[19:07] SPEAKER_04: But if I'm just doing like a like a steady zone two ride, it'd be like, yeah, I'll put a podcast on.
[19:12] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[19:13] SPEAKER_06: Any in particular though that you're liking at the moment?
[19:15] SPEAKER_06: Like, would you go for like true crime ones or would it be uh in sport?
[19:19] SPEAKER_04: Well I listen to funny stuff.
[19:21] SPEAKER_04: So I've listening listening to this one at the moment, it's called What Did You Do Yesterday?
[19:25] SPEAKER_04: Have you heard that one?
[19:27] SPEAKER_06: Oh right, no, I've not had not heard that one.
[19:29] SPEAKER_04: It's just these these two comedians um interview other like comedians or like well-known people, and the whole premise is they just talk through the day they had before, which sounds really boring, but it's funny because it's so dull.
[19:44] SPEAKER_06: Oh, really?
[19:44] SPEAKER_06: So, like, do you ride along then every so often you'll start out like when you're like by yourself and you'll start laughing while you're like uh riding along?
[19:52] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
[19:53] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, yeah.
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[20:16] SPEAKER_00: The thing that separates precision gels from other brands is that they taste great.
[20:20] SPEAKER_00: They just have this really simple, sugary flavour that you don't get sick of.
[20:24] SPEAKER_00: Um, and in combination with that, they also have this texture that goes down really, really easily and doesn't leave you feeling gross and nauseous after taking it.
[20:31] SPEAKER_00: And I know for me, they're kind of two of the biggest factors that I've struggled with in other gels, but with precision, they're just a really simple, nice, sweet flavour, and they go down so so easily.
[20:42] SPEAKER_00: Um they've also nailed their packaging, which can be a bit of a bugbear of mine, but they've made a really um practical and simple packaging that that doesn't spill out and get everywhere in their smaller gels.
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: And the PF90 literally has an easy-to-use on-race day screw top, and in training, the PF90 is just absolutely incredible if you're doing a long run or if you're out on the bike.
[21:02] SPEAKER_00: Like there's no better gel uh on the market than the PF90, in my opinion.
[21:06] SPEAKER_00: It's just the best.
[21:07] SPEAKER_00: Um they also make electrolyte tablets that have become a staple in the Triton world.
[21:11] SPEAKER_00: So join the bandwagon, start using precision for your training in racing, and to get a discount code when you do, um either use the code TTH25, which gets you 15% off the first time you use it, or click the link in this episode description if you want a bigger discount code.
[21:27] SPEAKER_00: Um it's over on the Triton our Patreon.
[21:29] SPEAKER_00: So the link to the Patreon is in the description of this episode, and and there's a 20% off every time you shop at Precision Link if you do sign up for Patreon that you can take advantage of.
[21:40] SPEAKER_04: Okay.
[21:41] SPEAKER_04: Um one of my questions is um a few years ago your your dog got um disqualified from Park Run.
[21:48] SPEAKER_04: Is that right?
[21:49] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it did, yeah.
[21:50] SPEAKER_06: They uh banned it from Park Run, yeah.
[21:53] SPEAKER_04: Has he been reinstated yet?
[21:54] SPEAKER_06: He's not been reinstated.
[21:56] SPEAKER_06: He's he's not had another crack out of Park Run.
[21:58] SPEAKER_06: That is his is one is He's it was one and done.
[22:01] SPEAKER_06: He still thinks that that was a win on his record.
[22:04] SPEAKER_06: Like uh he won't accept anything other than disqualification.
[22:07] SPEAKER_06: He said the ref was unfairly treated him and that he he wasn't he wasn't doing what he said he was.
[22:13] SPEAKER_06: He's still calling for Race Ranger to uh to verify what they said.
[22:19] SPEAKER_02: You need a outside review, yeah.
[22:23] SPEAKER_06: He needs an independent panel.
[22:24] SPEAKER_06: It's like in in doing a part run with a dog, it's like the complete opposite of like a tri in a triathlon.
[22:29] SPEAKER_06: Like a triathlon, they say you've got to be like 10 or 12 metres, whatever it is, ahead in um a dog park run.
[22:35] SPEAKER_06: You have to keep them on the lead, so they basically have to be within a metre of you.
[22:38] SPEAKER_06: He wasn't on the lead, he was running mid.
[22:40] SPEAKER_06: And they said that basically he was too far away from his owner and that he's DQ'd and uh he doesn't he's he's not having any of it.
[22:49] SPEAKER_04: Unbelievable, unbelievable.
[22:52] SPEAKER_06: All the spaniels to the sword, a little Lazapoo, a little fluffy dog that's normally at home with someone's nanny, put put the spaniels, put, put the spaniels down.
[23:01] SPEAKER_06: I mean, that's like that's like a Rocky and uh Rocky Balboa story, that is David and Goliath, you know.
[23:07] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the underdog winning.
[23:09] SPEAKER_06: The underdog won it.
[23:10] SPEAKER_06: Everyone loves the an underdog when they uh overperform, and that was his day, and it got taken away from him.
[23:17] SPEAKER_04: Poor dog, poor dog.
[23:18] SPEAKER_04: I reckon you just rock up again.
[23:20] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I could try off even on this time, do it all properly, and then just like, yeah, told you.
[23:28] SPEAKER_06: He did a 16 minute 50 cross-country park run, and then he outsprinted me at the end, like without 30, 40 metres to go.
[23:34] SPEAKER_06: He just jumped ahead just across the line.
[23:36] SPEAKER_06: Like he sit and kick me.
[23:38] SPEAKER_04: So good, so good.
[23:40] SPEAKER_04: You don't you don't hold it against him though?
[23:41] SPEAKER_04: You still get you still gave him his dinner.
[23:47] SPEAKER_06: Imagine that.
[23:48] SPEAKER_06: Like your dog outpicks you, you're like, right, he ain't getting dinner tonight now.
[23:52] SPEAKER_06: You're gonna have to wait until tomorrow, mate.
[23:54] SPEAKER_02: Like on the man of this house.
[24:00] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, no, like I used to do it with I used to do a part run with uh or uh my other dog, she used to do some of the run sessions, and I remember when she was younger, she was like three three years old, we'd be doing like four hundreds on a field and stuff like that, and she'd be running in the group, and there'd be like six or seven of us like at some points doing the reps, and she'd be running like in the middle of the group.
[24:19] SPEAKER_06: It was well funny, and then obviously because we were doing the rest off like a minute or something, she was doing like the minute rest just waiting around.
[24:25] SPEAKER_06: And it's funny, isn't it?
[24:26] SPEAKER_06: Like yeah, she was like doing like proper run sessions, like 16 by 400 and stuff like that, and then as she gets tired, she just cuts the corner off.
[24:35] SPEAKER_02: Like I love that.
[24:39] SPEAKER_06: I was just gonna say, uh, you know, you said you'd be a farmer for a year.
[24:42] SPEAKER_06: Do you watch Jeremy Clarkson's farm?
[24:44] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's good, doesn't it?
[24:46] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like uh yeah, it's quite it quite interesting, like all the stuff that he goes on about.
[24:51] SPEAKER_06: But I thought when you said that, I thought, oh, I bet she's into Jeremy Clarkson's like the farm.
[24:55] SPEAKER_06: A bit like Yeah.
[24:59] SPEAKER_04: It's nice, isn't it?
[25:00] SPEAKER_04: Like they spend an afternoon in the tractor.
[25:01] SPEAKER_04: Obviously, I appreciate farming is a lot harder than just sitting in your tractor.
[25:05] SPEAKER_04: But like, I just I think I think I'd enjoy the structure of the year, like being like all planned out for you, because like most of my life I've had my years like planned out because of a lot like competitions and stuff.
[25:17] SPEAKER_04: So yeah, you've got your year planned out.
[25:20] SPEAKER_04: Um, like you've got to get it right, otherwise you don't grow anything.
[25:24] SPEAKER_06: It's it's like triathlon in a way, then isn't it?
[25:26] SPEAKER_06: Where you have like your race season and stuff like that, which would be like the harvesting, wouldn't it?
[25:29] SPEAKER_06: And then you have you know, like getting everything right, like you say, with all the crops and stuff, would basically be like your training, isn't it?
[25:35] SPEAKER_06: Like if you mess it up, you're screwed.
[25:37] SPEAKER_04: If they mess that up, you gotta you've got to get it right six months out from when you actually want the result.
[25:42] SPEAKER_04: So that's yeah, it's it's quite like that, actually.
[25:46] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it is like a race, isn't it?
[25:48] SPEAKER_04: The yearly cycle follows the same pattern every year, so yeah.
[25:52] SPEAKER_06: God, if I was doing it like after the last year or so, my harvest would be flipping dreadful.
[25:59] SPEAKER_06: I'd have had nothing, I'd have had like two two tomatoes and a beadroot, and that would have been it.
[26:08] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but you've got to you've got to remember that you've had years of good training, so your soil will be good.
[26:12] SPEAKER_04: So next year, if you just get it right, you'll get good.
[26:16] SPEAKER_06: The harvest hasn't been too good the last couple of years, and the warehouse, the the warehouse is running out of like uh stuff.
[26:24] SPEAKER_04: The warehouse is running out of stock, but yeah.
[26:28] SPEAKER_04: There's always next year.
[26:29] SPEAKER_04: There's always next year.
[26:30] SPEAKER_06: That's what I was saying to the family.
[26:31] SPEAKER_06: Don't worry, next year's harvest will be a lot better.
[26:33] SPEAKER_06: It was just a bad year this year.
[26:35] SPEAKER_06: We didn't get the ringing right.
[26:40] SPEAKER_02: Just rely on the government grants.
[26:43] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[26:46] SPEAKER_04: Hope J doesn't come for that.
[26:53] SPEAKER_04: So you you like you love going in the wind tunnel, right?
[26:56] SPEAKER_06: Uh yeah, I do quite yeah, I do quite like it, yeah.
[26:59] SPEAKER_04: I feel like you're in there quite frequently.
[27:01] SPEAKER_04: Or like compared to a lot of others, you're like you're in there quite a lot.
[27:05] SPEAKER_04: If you and we've had all these rules with like no, like you're not allowed to like make fairings and stuff.
[27:11] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[27:12] SPEAKER_04: Anymore.
[27:13] SPEAKER_04: Sorry, uh, strategically placed bottles.
[27:16] SPEAKER_04: If you could bring one of your like fairing setup back, which one would you bring back?
[27:23] SPEAKER_06: Um probably the bot the bottles over the arms.
[27:25] SPEAKER_06: That was actually pretty fast when we tested that in the wind tunnel.
[27:28] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that would be that would be quite a good one.
[27:31] SPEAKER_06: And it didn't really like mess you up.
[27:33] SPEAKER_06: Like you could ride, like it felt alright to ride, but like I'm not like the the one thing actually I would rather than bat, I would quite like to see if they were banning anything, would be all the bottles at the front if they just limited it to one bowl, because it is a bit annoying, don't you think?
[27:47] SPEAKER_06: Like having all the bottles there.
[27:49] SPEAKER_06: But like you only do it like because it's a bit faster, and obviously, if everyone else is doing it, you feel like you have to, but if they banned it for everyone, it would actually be alright.
[27:54] SPEAKER_06: Like, I'd actually be quite happy if they just said one bottle at the front, because also the bikes look a lot better, don't they?
[27:59] SPEAKER_06: I don't really like it when they have uh load of bottles on them.
[28:02] SPEAKER_06: But like if I was going to have something, it would be the bottles over the arms, because that was like really fast.
[28:08] SPEAKER_06: That was that was like the biggest like one thing that we've changed on the bike that's made like a difference, like even like position changes or like calf sleeve, you know, it made more of a difference than that.
[28:18] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was the biggest.
[28:20] SPEAKER_04: Was it um like when you're riding it though, was it did it make like did it make your face and stuff feel like really warm?
[28:27] SPEAKER_04: Because obviously that's where the whole purpose is of it was to get the airflow to go round.
[28:31] SPEAKER_04: So like you're not you're not cooling down at all.
[28:34] SPEAKER_04: Did you get it?
[28:35] SPEAKER_06: Not really, I never really I mean I never really noticed it, but I only used it for like two races, really.
[28:40] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I wouldn't really try I wouldn't train on it, like you know, the only time I ever trained on it was like if it was race week, you know, because it would be set up for the look so it'd be like one or two days before the race.
[28:49] SPEAKER_06: So I never really trained on it, and I only used it for I think two races, like Texas and Lake Placid.
[28:54] SPEAKER_06: I don't think I used it for any other races, so I so I didn't really get a chance to actually use it that much, but it was quick, it was it was definitely fast, but it'd be it's just about trick of trying to find the next thing before they they ban it, isn't it?
[29:06] SPEAKER_06: Really?
[29:06] SPEAKER_06: But it gets harder and harder.
[29:08] unknown: Yeah.
[29:08] SPEAKER_04: Do you think do you think it's um obviously it's good like from a safety perspective that they're like trying to think about like making sure that uh people don't have have really crazy like fairings and stuff on their bikes, but it just feels like it feels a bit to me like we're in professional sport and like the whole like the innovation and stuff like that is being a bit limited because somebody doesn't like the look of bottles on bikes and stuff.
[29:35] SPEAKER_06: Do you not think that's a bit of a shame or well we knew they were gonna ban it when we did it, so we were just waiting to use it at like a big a big race beforehand because we knew like as soon as they saw it we were gonna get like one, two races out of it, and then it was gonna get banned, so we knew that at the time, so it was just waiting.
[29:53] SPEAKER_06: Um but I mean I'm not too fast it was banned because if everyone started doing it in races, then even if you didn't want to do it, you'd kind of be like, Oh, I kind of feel like I have to now because everyone else is gaining a few watts on me, and if I don't do it, I'm gonna be massively on the back foot, so then you'd kind of be forced into it.
[30:10] SPEAKER_06: But I think the trick is just finding something that makes a big difference that's not banned at the time, and then knowing that you've probably got a few races at best, unless there's something that doesn't look crazy, and it um like if it looks if it looks crazy like that, then you've got like one or two races and that's it, then it's gonna be banned.
[30:26] SPEAKER_06: If it if it doesn't look stick out, then you're you're probably fine, you're gonna be able to use it a lot.
[30:31] SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, I mean I don't mind it too much because that's what they do in everything, isn't it?
[30:37] SPEAKER_06: Like even in like Formula One don't they and stuff like that, you have stuff and then like you get to use it for a little bit of time, and then all of a sudden, like they'll ban it, and then it's kind of back to square one.
[30:45] SPEAKER_06: You're kind of thinking, What's the next thing that we can do?
[30:47] SPEAKER_06: Um you get a little bit of an advantage, and then they they try and they try and ban it, and then uh you're back onto the next thing.
[30:54] SPEAKER_04: Do you enjoy all that stuff like trying to find the like little tweaks or like little secret secret ways to yeah, yeah?
[31:03] SPEAKER_06: I enjoy that stuff, but what I do hate is like bike m maintenance.
[31:08] SPEAKER_06: Like I know you're quite good at the bike maintenance because I've seen some of your videos, so I I knew that you were actually quite good anyway.
[31:14] SPEAKER_06: Uh and you seem like you quite enjoy it, but I flippin' hate like stuff to do with bikes, like I hate that.
[31:20] SPEAKER_06: I like the tech bit where you're trying to gain like the few watts and stuff, but the actual maintenance side of maintaining bikes, making them like slid them, flipping, break down.
[31:28] SPEAKER_06: I can't stand that.
[31:29] SPEAKER_06: That bit like drives me mad.
[31:30] SPEAKER_04: That in itself is like saving loads of watts, isn't it?
[31:33] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is.
[31:34] SPEAKER_06: I mean it's a good uh thing to be able to do.
[31:36] SPEAKER_06: I'm just terrible at it, I hate it.
[31:38] SPEAKER_06: Like, I mean, like it's good if you can do it.
[31:43] SPEAKER_06: Like uh don't get me wrong, that's why I ended up traveling to a lot of the races with my dad, because he does it.
[31:49] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I guess uh I like learned how to do all that stuff like out of necessity because like I couldn't travel with somebody who could do it for me, or like I couldn't afford to just like take my bike down to the mechanic just to like sort out every time I had a bit of a problem.
[32:04] SPEAKER_04: So I just like watched tons of YouTube and then just got a bit more confident with it, and then when you get confident with it, you realise that like if somebody somebody down the bike shop can do it, then I'll be able to do it.
[32:16] SPEAKER_04: So that was my starting philosophy.
[32:18] SPEAKER_06: I heard you say that on a podcast a few years ago.
[32:23] SPEAKER_06: You were like trying to basically save as much money as you could so you could get to the races and like races, like race the biggest races you could, and that was how you managed to like sort all the mechanics out because it saves like a lot of money and a lot of stress as well.
[32:36] SPEAKER_06: If you can just do it in your hotel room instead of having to like mess around trying to find a bike shop and everything like that.
[32:41] SPEAKER_06: Um I didn't realise that you were so close to quitting the sport.
[32:46] SPEAKER_06: Like when I listened to that podcast, and you were like, wasn't there one race it came down to?
[32:50] SPEAKER_06: And you were like, if this doesn't go well, then um that's it, like I think I'm gonna have to do something else.
[32:56] SPEAKER_06: I can't remember what race it was now off the top of my head, but I remember you saying it did go well.
[33:00] SPEAKER_04: Iron Man, Florida.
[33:01] SPEAKER_06: Iron Man, Florida during COVID.
[33:04] SPEAKER_04: Uh no, it was uh the end of 2022.
[33:06] SPEAKER_04: So literally like the the last race I did before that Miami race.
[33:12] SPEAKER_04: So it was like the last race of 2022, and then uh yeah, then I won that Miami race at the beginning of 2023 for the T100.
[33:21] SPEAKER_06: Oh wow.
[33:22] SPEAKER_06: So like you had like a really good spell of like four four months that kind of kept you in the that kept you in the sport.
[33:28] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, basically, yeah.
[33:30] SPEAKER_04: I just I just like that enough.
[33:32] SPEAKER_06: When was it you won the championship?
[33:34] SPEAKER_06: The challenge championship?
[33:35] SPEAKER_04: Uh that was uh 2022.
[33:39] SPEAKER_04: The first yeah, the first one was that.
[33:41] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, 2022, yeah.
[33:43] SPEAKER_06: What so even after that race where you won that, you were still contemplating at the end of the year whether or not to keep it going?
[33:49] SPEAKER_06: Because that's a massive race that you've won, the chat like that.
[33:52] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was just it was mainly because like financially I like I didn't have like paying sponsors and I was relying on prize money, which is like like that was fine, but it was like scraping by and I was just fed up of like putting so much effort in and feeling like if um like when it came together on a good day, I would have a really good day, but then I was like in the background, I was like working so hard just to like keep keep everything going, and like because I basically have to do like everything myself, it's like it was like really, really hard work, and it was just like I just I don't think I can sustain uh doing this and like uh continue enjoying it as much as I did.
[34:39] SPEAKER_04: And yeah, yeah, I just yeah, I just got to the end of my tether with it, and it wasn't the like work I was putting in wasn't worth the rewards I was getting.
[34:49] SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
[34:50] SPEAKER_06: If you had had of like say stopped, you know, at the end of 2022, what do you reckon you'd have got into and where what do you reckon you'd have been doing now?
[34:57] SPEAKER_04: Like um, I think I probably would have tried to do like a lot more coaching because I really enjoy coaching, and so I would have um yeah tried to do um a lot more of that and um then maybe try to do like a I don't I I have absolutely no idea, Joe.
[35:18] SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm relieved that it didn't come to that.
[35:20] SPEAKER_04: Otherwise it would probably be like a desk job.
[35:25] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it would be hard to think.
[35:27] SPEAKER_06: It is hard to think about what you would do if you're in that situation.
[35:31] SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I think like pretty much everyone would be like, I they really don't know.
[35:35] SPEAKER_06: And I guess it would take like a little while of where you'd have to like just really rattle your brains and think, what actually am I gonna do?
[35:43] SPEAKER_06: Like what would what and um just hope that you think of something that seems like it's actually gonna be alright and pay half decently because it's not like you want to go flip from being a pro triathlete, is it to like stacking shelves or something in a supermarket?
[35:58] SPEAKER_06: I mean that would be pretty grim.
[35:59] SPEAKER_06: I think I'd be back out there by like January or February training again, thinking hopefully I'll pick up some sponsors.
[36:06] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[36:07] SPEAKER_06: Do you want to know a job?
[36:08] SPEAKER_06: What I did once for a couple of days, and then it cracked me.
[36:12] SPEAKER_06: A dustbin man.
[36:13] SPEAKER_04: Did you?
[36:14] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[36:15] SPEAKER_04: I feel like that would um that's it.
[36:18] SPEAKER_04: It looks like such hard work, doesn't it?
[36:20] SPEAKER_04: Because you'd like lifting, lifting stuff all day.
[36:23] SPEAKER_06: It was grim, and I remember doing it on like a heat wave in uh what when we did it, and I had to go down this like I had to do this round that had these long flipping alleys, so you could you had to walk all the way up to the end, get the get the last one, then you had to come back and then get the second to last one.
[36:42] SPEAKER_06: It wasn't like you were going through people's houses and the smell, because you can imagine like all the horrible black bins and in a heat wave absolutely reeked.
[36:50] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and it started like mega early, it was like started at half six in the morning.
[36:54] SPEAKER_06: Then when you you had to go to this like indoor tip to like halfway through to like dump everything, and you're parked in the inside of the tit of the skip or whatever it is, where all these horrible bins are, and the smell was so bad it gave me like a flipping migraine.
[37:05] SPEAKER_06: I was like, Oh my god, like I can't do this.
[37:08] SPEAKER_06: I did it for what for one day, and then I was like to my mum and dad, I was like, I'm not doing it, I'm quitting.
[37:13] SPEAKER_06: They're like quitting, you've only lasted one day.
[37:16] SPEAKER_06: I can't do it.
[37:18] SPEAKER_06: It was horrendous, like absolutely horrendous.
[37:20] SPEAKER_06: And I was hungover as well, so I don't think that actually went helped.
[37:23] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that probably didn't help me, didn't it?
[37:25] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that didn't help me.
[37:28] SPEAKER_06: That was a grim, grim job.
[37:30] SPEAKER_06: I remember fair play to anyone that actually manages to keep that up, like yeah.
[37:35] SPEAKER_04: I uh I worked as a painter and decorator for six months.
[37:38] SPEAKER_04: That was fun before I did triath on.
[37:42] SPEAKER_06: Well, if you're ever in Norwich, just give us a uh give us a buzz.
[37:48] SPEAKER_04: You need any cutting in, uh, ceilings painted, I'm your gal.
[37:52] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[37:54] SPEAKER_06: When's the rough season again?
[37:56] SPEAKER_04: Like uh oh I think it's about two weeks at the end of December this year.
[38:05] SPEAKER_00: I've always received heaps of meshes from people who listen to this podcast and are frustrated about how inconvenient it is to watch Triton or how annoying some aspects of trying to watch Triton are.
[38:16] SPEAKER_00: In the US, you're paying for one streaming service to watch Iron Man and sitting through ads, and I get lots of meshes about how for some races you can't even watch the replay of it after it's finished, and then in the UK you're paying for another streaming service to watch T100.
[38:29] SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, in countries like Australia, you can watch both Iron Man and T100 for free on YouTube with way less ads, and it's just super convenient.
[38:37] SPEAKER_00: Then last year I was overseas a lot experiencing these issues for myself, so I started looking for a solution so that I could watch races while I was over there, and that's when I found Nord VPM.
[38:47] SPEAKER_00: I had never used Nord VPM before, and I bought it so I could set my country to Australia while I was overseas, and it was great.
[38:53] SPEAKER_00: Um, I've used it ever since.
[38:54] SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to them last week after having had lots of messages recently around the big races about people experiencing these problems to see if maybe they might want to help help me out with the issue and partner with the podcast so that everyone who listens could hear this and and go and get it and get a big discount code and help solve the problem of making Triton a little bit easier to watch.
[39:15] SPEAKER_00: And luckily for us, they said they'd love to.
[39:18] SPEAKER_00: So with NordVPN, you can switch your virtual location to say Australia, for example, or any country in the world where Triton is free to stream, and suddenly you're watching both Iron Man and T100 for free with fewer ads on YouTube with no subscriptions needed.
[39:34] SPEAKER_00: You can then go and watch the replays of those races whenever you want to, so you don't have to stay up and watch them during the middle of the night or sacrifice other things you're doing on the weekend to watch them.
[39:43] SPEAKER_00: Um I've also ended up keeping Nord VPN personally for over a year now because it works for so much more like unlocking streaming service libraries in other countries.
[39:53] SPEAKER_00: Um if there's a movie or TV show you want to watch and it's not on your country's version of the streaming service, you just Google which country it's available in on that service, and then you go and switch your NordVPN location to that country, and boom, just like that, you're watching it in probably like a minute with a subscription that you already pay for, so you don't need to go and buy a new subscription so that you can watch that TV show or movie in your country.
[40:15] SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so you don't need five streaming services per month that you pay pay for.
[40:19] SPEAKER_00: You can just have one or two and use Nord VPN instead.
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[40:43] SPEAKER_00: So if you want to save yourself heaps of money, skip the ads uh on triathlon and actually enjoy watching triathlon for the first time, have access to replays, not have to have different subscription services, then go to NordVPN.com forward slash triathlon hour to get a huge discount on the two-year plans plus four extra months completely free on top of that.
[41:06] SPEAKER_00: It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee.
[41:10] SPEAKER_00: Um, the link to to go and get it for yourself is also in the description of this episode.
[41:16] SPEAKER_06: Are you um picky with training partners, or would you are you not really like you kind of get on with anyone and you'd be happy to train with them, or are you a bit are you picky?
[41:26] SPEAKER_04: Um I don't think I I'm not picky.
[41:28] SPEAKER_04: I just I prefer if somebody's not like matching my like vibes, like I'm I'm pr when I'm training, I feel like I'm pretty relaxed, like I'm like getting the work done, but I'm also like enjoying it.
[41:45] SPEAKER_04: I'm not like completely blinkered, like super focused, like do not talk to me because I'm in the middle of a rep.
[41:51] SPEAKER_04: I'm like give obviously doing my absolute best, but if if I'd rather train on my own than train with somebody who's doesn't um match my vibe, if you know what I mean.
[42:04] SPEAKER_06: If we go through this then together, like about our a training partner that we'd want, yeah, and like we both like say, and uh so for instance, like timekeeping, would that be important to you?
[42:15] SPEAKER_06: Like someone that turns up on time, yeah.
[42:18] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, for me, I'd say 60%, yeah, 70%, because I know I'm pretty bad at timekeeping, so I kind of think to myself, they were late, I was probably gonna be late anyway, so we'd probably both be arriving at the same time.
[42:29] SPEAKER_06: So uh yeah, but I so like within reason.
[42:32] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm like a bit of a hypocrite, really, because I hate when people are late on me, but then I'm terrible myself, and I have to remind myself when when I'm there waiting for someone, like I'm getting like, oh my god, like what are they doing?
[42:42] SPEAKER_06: And I'm thinking, God, I must really piss a lot of people off because I'm like the worst timekeeper ever.
[42:47] SPEAKER_04: So like it's good to have that perspective, right?
[42:52] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, timekeepers for me, like yeah, I'd I'd I'd get annoyed if you if you've organized to meet for a ride at 10am, like get there for uh 9.55 so you're like ready to go.
[43:06] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, would their ability be that important?
[43:09] SPEAKER_06: Obviously for biking it would be, but for say like swimming and running, sports like that, like, or would you kind of be like you wouldn't be that fast because you just handicap it, for instance, or would you want someone that's like actually the same pace?
[43:20] SPEAKER_04: Oh uh yeah, I'm not that not that bothered.
[43:23] SPEAKER_04: Like in the pool, in the pool you can handicap stuff quite well, and I actually quite enjoy that.
[43:27] SPEAKER_04: If you're swimming with somebody who's a bit slower and you're doing like hundreds of a turnaround, I'll like say you're doing like 2100s and I'm going off 125, but the person I'm swimming with is going off 135, I'll like set them off, like I'll work it out so it's maybe they have to start three minutes in front of me.
[43:49] SPEAKER_04: So, like slowly throughout the session, you're like just catching them up bit by bit, and I really I like I really enjoy that.
[43:54] SPEAKER_04: That like really motivates me.
[43:55] SPEAKER_06: That's that that is exactly the kind of thing that I do in my swim sets because I got anyone that's like um of a similar level so I do that or they do 75s and I do hundreds and every other one is actually quite good because you're trying to catch them before they walk and that's like I I I I quite I find that quite you're not really racing them but it's basically like you're just chasing someone down all the time.
[44:16] SPEAKER_04: It's quite fun.
[44:17] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[44:18] SPEAKER_06: What the next category would banter or seriousness be uh more like more important or both of them together.
[44:26] SPEAKER_06: So you want someone who's serious but they also like chuck in a few jokes and stuff or you wouldn't be cared about the jokes you just want them to crack on and get the work done.
[44:32] SPEAKER_04: Uh no I'd I'd prefer that it was um like a a jokey environment than serious.
[44:38] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[44:38] SPEAKER_04: Because like we're all we're all grown ups right so if we're if we're at a training session we're all gonna work like we're like we're there to do a training session and we're gonna get that training session done and I'm gonna work as hard as I need to work but that doesn't mean that you like can't just like chuck a joke in every now and then like that doesn't take anything away from your effort level you know like grow up like you're like you're you're you're running around a track and like if something is funny it's gonna be funny whether you're running around a track at threshold or if you're just jogging around the track so like just point out the funny thing and like enjoy that moment and then like carry on again.
[45:20] SPEAKER_04: Do you know what I mean?
[45:22] SPEAKER_06: So basically crack on get the session done and then as long as you're doing the session it's just all it's about having a bit of banter and making it as much of a laugh as possible because like it doesn't you don't need to be any more getting the session and hitting the paces or whatever you know what I mean.
[45:37] SPEAKER_04: No.
[45:38] SPEAKER_06: So long as someone's like matching my effort level like if we're doing a hard swim and it is a hard swim and if you're matching like the effort level that you should be putting in because it's a hard swim and you're doing that then like crack a joke you know in a hard swim I'm like literally getting to the wall and going or like hitting the times like there's like literally no banter and I'm in the middle of a hard swim.
[46:03] SPEAKER_06: I don't get time.
[46:03] SPEAKER_06: I feel like swimming the times are like what you get rest wise are so tight compared to the other sports.
[46:09] SPEAKER_06: Do you know what I mean?
[46:10] SPEAKER_06: Like you do intervals on the track like threshold reps it's like you get a couple of minutes between stuff don't you but I mean like when you if you're 100s and you get like 10 or 15 seconds you're literally like right see off you go.
[46:23] SPEAKER_02: Yeah like you have conversations with people in like three words at a time in each rest.
[46:29] SPEAKER_06: Yeah have you um did you manage to get any more questions like uh I don't know how much uh Jack said to you and that like when he spoke to Taylor I think he got her like uh he really rallied her and she had a whole like uh load of them but we only got for about two or three I feel like Taylor would be um uh like a planner and a note taker whereas I was like it's Joe I'll wing it I was just driving back from the pool and I was like I'm doing podcasts with Joe what should I ask him Sam said to ask you how many how many races have you missed because you missed the start time oh mate I've like literally missed like one race where I've missed the start time and do you know what happened as well like which makes things even worse it was a race that was actually up towards um I was gonna say you're neck of the woods but it's not because I keep thinking that you're uh living in Loftbridge but it was that oh Vitruvian you know Rotlam water oh yeah and um I went up there the day before and I was doing it in training and I was obviously like so tired I sent my alarm it went off and I like was so tired that I slept through it and then I woke up and then when I woke up the next time I'm like oh my god I'm meant to be starting in like 20 minutes or something like that.
[47:43] SPEAKER_06: So I quickly got like the stuff on went down there had a gel and they had like three waves they were starting each 10 minutes like 10 minutes later so I said to the organiser can I start in the last wave like flipping slip through my alarm it was like yeah yeah yeah you can start in the last wave it was freezing cold it was like 11 degrees 12 degrees it was chucking with rain and then just before I got to the end of the first lap I flipped and punched it it was a two lap course as well so not only did I miss the start I ended up punching and DNFing and then having to walk the last bit in the freezing cold rain and I was just like why did I bother why did I even bother doing it should have just turned off the alarm completely yeah would you ever want to do any of those um extreme tries like Norseman or Patagonia man are they are they on your radar?
[48:30] SPEAKER_06: Um not really like nah I I don't like they don't really um I'm not really that motivated by them to be honest.
[48:38] SPEAKER_06: Like they're just um I don't know I don't I just like racing like more the bigger people if you know what I mean and racing for like a decent prize whereas for them races there's like nothing up for grabs.
[48:51] SPEAKER_06: I think if I was going to do something extreme I would probably just rather go full on for that like UTMB the like 100 and whatever it is Marler you know the 100 marer and just go and go full tilt on that because it would be like for me that would be pretty extreme because I'm crap on like mountain runs anyway so that would be um that would be pretty good.
[49:10] SPEAKER_06: But like an extreme triathlon I don't think the courses are actually as well that extreme that might be a bit controversial but they just look like they're fairly hard but I mean like the wind is still doing like nine hours like so I'm like it's not that extreme.
[49:21] SPEAKER_06: I mean extreme it's like 14 hours for an Iron Man because it's just like on like up and down you know up like horrendous terrain and stuff like that but they don't seem that bad they just seem like what I'd class as like a slow race um what about you?
[49:36] SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah I think well at the moment like you I like racing like the bigger races because I like the the competition of like racing against the best so that's what motivates me at the moment but I think may like maybe maybe in the future I'd I'd be yeah I'd be more interested but um I think I'd just I'd just like to go to the places where the races are being held rather than do the race I'd just like to go there.
[50:03] SPEAKER_06: Like I'd like to go to the not do a triathlon.
[50:07] SPEAKER_06: Yeah yeah I think I'd probably rather do that and also the atmosphere in some of these extreme races doesn't look that good because there's not that many people there.
[50:14] SPEAKER_06: So it's like you're just driving yeah you could be out on a training ride you know like you don't necessarily know that you're in a race I don't think because everyone's so far spread out because there's not a huge amount of people and there's not that much atmosphere whereas I'd rather do a race like Iron Man Wales which is a tough course and there's loads of people out watching it and you're actually racing for some money and stuff like that so there's like more of a buzz about it like I'd get more motivation for doing that.
[50:42] SPEAKER_06: Yeah I agree with you yeah I've got a question for you um if you could go back and start your triathlon career all over again from the start um what would you change and when I say like from the start if we talk about like when you were like say you first got your pro license so not like anything you're doing from then so let's just say you're back to when you got your first pro licence what would it where what would you pursue what kind of races um would it be exactly the same would the training be the same would your mindset be different?
[51:12] SPEAKER_04: Uh I would go to I would do long distance sooner I wouldn't have stayed in Olympic distance as long I would have gone straight to 7.3 basically yeah because it suits it suits me way better and like the the way that you can stretch your your year and you're like more in control of everything that I think um would have been like a better way of me just having a career in triathlon.
[51:40] SPEAKER_06: Do you think the reason why people like back then you didn't pursue 70 point three is because the stigma was you do long distance after you finish racing short distance whereas now it's totally different.
[51:53] SPEAKER_06: Like there's like 19 20 year olds that are like literally they're 20 and they're going straight into 70 point threes and like looking at the T100 whereas 10 years ago it the mentality was no one really goes into 70.3s or Iron Man at a young age it was like race short distance until you can't you know maybe like 30 or something and then for your last few years then you go and race long distance whereas if you had to been like at the start of your career now and it was like loads of young people like going into like longer distances it would have just been like a natural progression kind of thing yeah I think back yeah like 10 years ago everything was like if you want to be a pro triathlete that is about like going to the Olympics and like trying to get to the Olympics and doing like World Series races and if you're not good enough for that then or like you're too slow for that then then you go and do 70 point threes and then once you get too slow doing 70 point threes then you go and do an Iron Man and um so like I guess like the it was everyone's like encouraged to do the shorter distance stuff rather than seeing the 70.3 and Iron Man stuff is like a viable way of being a professional athlete.
[53:05] SPEAKER_06: What made you though think like you um like changed 70 point threes though because you won the European champs um I can't remember when it was but I know you won it in like the short distance races and obviously with your running haven't you been like top 10 in like the intercounties like cross country so like yeah when you do like running races you're right up there like for people that don't know you're racing against the top women in the country and you what couldn't have been far away from representing GB were you at that like with with that result?
[53:34] SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah I don't I'm not sure like how strong the competition was when I came and I think I was like seventh maybe at the intercounties oh like it's always strong though isn't it it's always like mega strong like it's like it's strong yeah and it like winds people up that a traffic that you can get in the top ten you know which is like 80% of what I do it.
[53:52] SPEAKER_06: I think there's like a an amazing result.
[53:54] SPEAKER_04: So that shows that you've like got like some really good pedigree like and what made you not pursue going to the Olympics because like if you I tried I just wasn't good enough really do you not think yeah it's just because like the I think it was like a few things that I started triath on pretty late so I was quite like I was quite old by the time I started doing well like in terms of like the old essential yeah for like that for that distance um so and then GB is like really strong and there's a restriction on the number of people who can get into like World Series races to get points to get up the rankings to be eligible for the Olympics and stuff.
[54:36] SPEAKER_04: So basically there were too many GB girls who were better than me so I just like I would never stand a chance of getting to the Olympics because I just wasn't on their level.
[54:47] SPEAKER_00: But then for that distance but then like my physiology or whatever just lends itself to being a 70 point three athlete but then when you're in when you're in like the British tarathon system they're like trying to do everything to keep you doing Olympic distance rather than like seeing the bigger picture and saying oh like no actually why don't you just go do 70 point threes because you're gonna be better at them like they just were they talking you into staying into short distance and that was one of the reasons why you stayed for longer were they like giving you pep talks and saying like keep at it you're doing well kind of thing you know like not really just like that it's that seen as like the only option really like that's like the only viable way of being a pro athlete but I think I think the times the times have changed now that there's like more education over that like you actually can make like decent money doing 70.3 an Iron Man so hope hopefully those conversations don't still happen I personally think that all triathletes or endurance athletes in general should be taking creatine daily however not all creatines are created equal and in the case of Pillar Performance's creatine monohydrate it features single origin creep pure made in Germany which is the purest form of creatine monohydrate available on the market and unlike most brands it's informed sports certified.
[56:06] SPEAKER_00: So as a triathlete why should you be taking creatine daily?
[56:09] SPEAKER_00: Well firstly energy production creatine helps replenish ATP which is the body's primary energy source this means higher anaerobic capacity and better overall athletic performance enhanced recovery is the second thing.
[56:23] SPEAKER_00: Creatine reduces muscle damage and inflammation while promoting faster glycogen replenishment this leads to quicker recovery between training sessions and races.
[56:33] SPEAKER_00: It's it's probably in my opinion the main reason why you should use it just the in hugely enhanced recovery that that it it it leads to and then thirdly is the cognitive benefits.
[56:43] SPEAKER_00: Creatine supports brain function reducing mental fatigue and improve improving focus throughout endurance events but also just day to day in your life if you're trying to get up early and train and then go to work and then look after your family and and spend quality time with the people you care about maybe even train a second time I mean you just need to have the cognitive ability to do so and creatine definitely helps that so if you would like to try some creatine monohydrate yourself which I highly recommend you do then head to pillarperformance dot shop or for North American listeners listeners head to thefeed.com and enter the code TTH for 15% off all first purchases that's code TTH for 15% off all first purchases I've got something that I wanted to uh do with you and it's basically a winner stays on.
[57:32] SPEAKER_02: So yeah yeah yeah I've seen people do this.
[57:36] SPEAKER_06: Yeah so I'm gonna start off with I'm gonna name two triathletes and put a set and a race distance and you've got to say who uh who would sta who would win and then I add another athlete and we go through and I've got about five of them and we'll see see see what you reckon.
[57:51] SPEAKER_06: So the first one is Daniela Reef versus Gwen Jorgensen both in their peak at a T100 distance uh that's tricky Daniela Daniela yeah all right Daniela versus Kate Wolf both of these when I say these as well this is their like that you've got to imagine they're in their peak of what you've seen of them Olympic distance non-drafting Olympic distance non-drafting Kate all right so Kate versus Ashley Gentle Iron Man distance uh Ash Ash versus Cat Matthews 10k running race just fresh 10k just fresh 10k I don't know I think that would be close let's go catch my gal cat versus Laura Phillip I am Kona mate so I wasn't oh sorry the microphone's broken so I gotta go not answer it that made you uh that that was uh quite good how it ended up coming down to them two at the end yeah very good that's exactly how you wanted it to end eh because if you would have had Ashley Gentle you'd have definitely gone for Laura Phillip wouldn't you because you'd have been like I'll see like you know Rain and Wells.
[59:26] SPEAKER_04: Yeah oh that's gonna be such a good race isn't it Laura Laura and Kat's going to be so good.
[59:32] SPEAKER_04: I'm annoyed I'm racing it because I would quite like to watch it maybe I'll see I've just seen them coming back down the motorway when I'm going the other way you'll be right up there in the mix.
[59:42] SPEAKER_06: Do you from when you've trained with like Kat and stuff because you do quite a bit of training with her don't you when you go up to Lofburg and like at the races does that give you quite a lot of confidence like if when you train with her and obviously then you see like the results that she's getting do you think like well if I'm like in the mix and like we're able to train together then I should be winning some of these races.
[1:00:00] SPEAKER_06: I mean you did win a massive a big Iron Man earlier in the year and you absolutely annihilated them like was it like 25 minutes or something you won by?
[1:00:07] SPEAKER_06: Yeah something like that yeah yeah uh yeah that's actually like one of the um one of the biggest things from like when I like back at the start of 2023 I went on training camp with Kat for like uh a few like like two three week stints and that sort of like changed my mindset that like I can I know that I'm like not far off her or I'm like right up there with her in training and so like she's got this like incredible like self-belief and confidence in herself and like I can like I can see that day to day and then knowing that I'm like holding my own against her and like with her in training it was kind of like oh like basically like me talking to myself just saying like get it together like Kat's like one of the best in the world and you can be as well basically so yeah that was like training with Kat and just like spending time around her and her energy and stuff sort of gave me a bit of a kick up the arse to like have a bit more belief in myself yeah it makes you realise like how important mindset is doesn't it because like I don't know about you but like even if I've come off the back of like of uh say like a really good year and then I start the like next season that first race I always find the worst because it's like it it's almost like everything's reset like you don't know am I am I gonna go well against these people I don't know how well they've gone I haven't raced I've got nothing to kind of like you know to go to go on of recent and then like I always find the nerves for that first race the worst and then once you get it done it's almost like absolute relief even if it doesn't go like fully to plan it's like right I've got that first race done now I know where I am and then I also find that like when you're in a season after you get one good result the confidence that you get from that is loads and then I find it's way easier to get like good results after you've had one good race because you kind of think well I've just done it like I know I'm good…
[1:04:33] SPEAKER_04: And um yeah like people talk about like motivate um momentum quite a lot in like sport don't they and like if you've got good momentum yeah then it can like carry you through a lot of stuff and so and a lot of that can just be mindset because you know that you're on a you're on a good streak and so there's no reason to doubt yourself basically.
[1:04:53] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[1:04:54] SPEAKER_06: You know um your coach does he help you with like like the mindset or is it more like experience from being from racing for so long that you just you you've kind of you know how to kind of talk to yourself or to kind of get yourself on the right mindset?
[1:05:11] SPEAKER_04: Uh it's a it's a combination of both.
[1:05:13] SPEAKER_04: I did like quite a lot of um like I don't know if work is the right word but like I like I figured out quite a lot of stuff to like myself to like find ways of making sure that I don't like slip into like telling myself that I'm like rubbish all the time.
[1:05:33] SPEAKER_04: And then Sam's really good at sort of like he can tell if I'm being a bit uh like negative about stuff and he can sort of like bring me out of it by just like stating facts and that and that helps me quite a bit being like you're not you're not crap like these are the facts that show that like you're in good shape or whatever.
[1:05:55] SPEAKER_04: And um yeah he's quite good at just making making sure That I don't spiral into a thing of like believing that I'm rubbish and can't do anything.
[1:06:07] SPEAKER_06: So would that just be like he'd look at some of your training, he'd be like, look at the paces that you held here.
[1:06:11] SPEAKER_06: This would be like this is better than what you've done, higher than when you won that race, or whatever.
[1:06:15] SPEAKER_06: And then you'd think, Oh yeah, that's a good point.
[1:06:17] SPEAKER_06: Like, that is actually as good as what I did when I won that race.
[1:06:20] SPEAKER_06: So if I can do if I'm doing training like that and I was doing that two weeks ago, then uh I'm definitely in good shape, and then and then you kind of forget about like the bad point that you're on, you know, and you kind of start coming around.
[1:06:32] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.
[1:06:33] SPEAKER_04: He'll be like, Look, you've you've done this session and you've done it like X percent better than you did it like six months ago, so like you're on you're on the right track and you've just got to keep doing what you're doing, and it's it's quite it's nice to have somebody to who can just like say it like as a fact, because I'm not really into the like the wishy-washy of like, oh no, you're like you're alright, come on, like just just be happy.
[1:06:59] SPEAKER_04: It's like no.
[1:07:10] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it needs to be yeah, an actual thing rather than just feelings.
[1:07:15] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like blowing smoke up your ass for like no reason.
[1:07:18] SPEAKER_04: I'm not interested, yeah, I'm not interested in that.
[1:07:20] SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
[1:07:21] SPEAKER_06: Because I feel like if you really want to believe it, you need to have some facts, don't you?
[1:07:24] SPEAKER_06: Because otherwise it's like you can't get the confidence from like someone saying no, you'll be alright, you'll do really well, because it's like, oh they mean well, but like how do you know?
[1:07:32] SPEAKER_04: Like how do you know?
[1:07:33] SPEAKER_06: Like, yeah, like you've no idea.
[1:07:35] SPEAKER_06: Like I could have like pulled out the last four sessions or something and like completely bombed out.
[1:07:39] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what you don't know what training I've done the last month, like yeah.
[1:07:43] SPEAKER_02: How do you know I'll be alright?
[1:07:44] SPEAKER_06: Um you've been cancelled before that's one thing that we've both been in common.
[1:07:51] SPEAKER_06: We've both definitely got in common that we've both been cancelled for doing a podcast.
[1:07:58] SPEAKER_06: I do feel like cancel culture though a few years ago was a lot worse than what it is now.
[1:08:03] SPEAKER_06: Didn't you think?
[1:08:04] SPEAKER_06: Like there was a point where like people were trying to cancel people for everything, you know.
[1:08:08] SPEAKER_06: Like, I mean, yeah I would hate to have been a comedian like three years ago or something like that, because anything you said people were gonna be like shooting at you.
[1:08:16] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, people can get offended.
[1:08:18] SPEAKER_04: Well, people can choose to be offended by anything, can't they, if they like really find a way.
[1:08:23] SPEAKER_06: So but sometimes it's like it is just banter at the end of the day, isn't it?
[1:08:27] SPEAKER_06: Like, I mean like say something, it's a bit of a joke, like it's not the serious, it's like people just think that it's it's all like so deep and like personal, it's just like it's just a bit of a laugh.
[1:08:37] SPEAKER_06: I just feel like I mean you're like a similar age to me, and I know when we were at when you were probably at school and when I was at school, like it was pretty savage, wasn't it?
[1:08:45] SPEAKER_06: And I think like if people were doing stuff like that now, like you'd be so cancelled, like but some of the stuff that we used to say to each other was like crazy.
[1:08:54] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like yeah, yeah, it was bad, wasn't it?
[1:08:57] SPEAKER_04: So yeah, we've just grown up in that, so we're we're used to it.
[1:09:02] SPEAKER_06: Thanks for uh coming on, I really appreciate it, and uh I hope you have a great training camp in Lanzarote and look forward to seeing you compete at the next T 100 race.
[1:09:11] SPEAKER_06: So uh yeah, thanks for your time.
[1:09:12] SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
[1:09:13] SPEAKER_04: Good job.
[1:09:14] SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Joe.

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