# A Big Weekend of Drama & Controversy at Ironman 70.3 Eagleman

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 9 Jun 2025, 1 h 05 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698056-a-big-weekend-of-drama-controversy-at-ironman-70-3-eagleman.mp3

Jack, Justin & Ari are back to bring you your weekly source of triathlon entertainment. The racing & drama from Ironman 70.3 Eagleman is on the agenda including the controversy surrounding the pro men interfering with the pro women’s race and Sam Long v Trevor Foley. Sam Appleton joins us on the pod filling in for Greg and he questions whether the T100 has lived up to expectations or not. He also brings his “10 Commandments of Triathlon” based on his two decades in triathlon and the group delivers a therapy session for Ari. We then finish with some inspirational quotes and rapping Lose Yourself by Eminem. Sign up to Patreon Here - Patreon link

## Transcript

[0:00] SPEAKER_03: There's never been more Triathlon Stories.
[0:02] SPEAKER_03: The Triathlon Hour Podcast brings type A's together.
[0:05] SPEAKER_03: Triathlon nerds are watching news and fearless debate.
[0:09] SPEAKER_03: We're invested in you.
[0:10] SPEAKER_03: From Lanzarate to Noosa to Kona.
[0:13] SPEAKER_03: Andrew Mesik is listening wherever you are.
[0:15] SPEAKER_03: On Instagram and podcasts, training stories you need, providing you the entertainment that celebrates Triathlon, the Triathlon, Triathlon opinions, and much more.
[0:27] SPEAKER_03: And we are back, episode three of the Trithlon Hour, the newly invented Trithlon Hour.
[0:32] SPEAKER_03: As always, I'm joined by my co-host Justin Riale.
[0:36] SPEAKER_03: Hey Jack.
[0:37] SPEAKER_03: Ari Clau's here.
[0:38] SPEAKER_03: He is shirtless.
[0:39] SPEAKER_03: You guys can't see that though.
[0:40] SPEAKER_07: Hello, mate.
[0:41] SPEAKER_07: Gonna be flexing our show.
[0:43] SPEAKER_03: And our third co-host, Greg Harper, he's not here.
[0:46] SPEAKER_03: He had to race today, and he's had four or five beers, and that's too many for Greg.
[0:51] SPEAKER_03: So we've replaced him with a much better looking version, much nicer, much funnier, bigger appendage version of himself, Sam Appleton.
[0:59] SPEAKER_06: Hey everyone.
[1:00] SPEAKER_06: Glad to be here.
[1:00] SPEAKER_06: Also, Jack, I think you forgot to say better swimmer than Greg as well.
[1:05] SPEAKER_03: Controversial.
[1:06] SPEAKER_03: He did have a pretty good swim today at Eagle Man.
[1:08] SPEAKER_03: We're going to get into all things Eagle Man.
[1:10] SPEAKER_03: I'm Jack Kelly as well, if you didn't know that.
[1:12] SPEAKER_03: Boys, before we start the show, Greg did send us in a little message that he kind of like threatened me that if I didn't play, he would never come back on the podcast.
[1:19] SPEAKER_03: So let's hear from Greg.
[1:22] SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm pretty bitter about you guys replacing me.
[1:26] SPEAKER_04: And I I have nothing good to say to you, Jack.
[1:31] SPEAKER_04: I'm disappointed you're fired because my coach.
[1:34] SPEAKER_04: Justin.
[1:36] SPEAKER_04: Never liked you.
[1:38] SPEAKER_04: Ari.
[1:39] SPEAKER_04: You're like my eight-year-old nephew.
[1:41] SPEAKER_04: I I don't even know what to say.
[1:42] SPEAKER_04: Apo, you're obviously chill as fuck.
[1:45] SPEAKER_04: So peace out.
[1:51] SPEAKER_03: The funny thing is Apo's the one who said he's a better swimmer than him tried to start some beef with Greg, and Greg's come after all of us except Apo.
[2:00] SPEAKER_06: Greg's gonna listen and be like, fuck, why did I say that?
[2:04] SPEAKER_03: Alright, boys, let's get into the the meaty part of the show, the more serious part of the show to start it.
[2:09] SPEAKER_03: Uh news headlines.
[2:14] SPEAKER_03: It's time for this week's edition of Triathlon News Headlines.
[2:19] SPEAKER_03: Discussion included.
[2:23] SPEAKER_03: Okay, another big weekend of North American racing, and I do think that's gonna take up most of the discussion in our news headlines this week.
[2:30] SPEAKER_03: There's obviously some drama that that kind of happened at Eagle Man 70.3 today that we're gonna get into.
[2:36] SPEAKER_03: But before we do that, I want to bring kind of a more positive headline to the table, which is the Lucy Charles Barclay and Chelsea Sodoro battle shows there is more Kona contenders than just Laura Phillip and Cat Matthews.
[2:49] SPEAKER_03: I thought that Lucy Charles Barclay was incredibly impressive today.
[2:53] SPEAKER_03: There's multiple reasons.
[2:54] SPEAKER_03: She rode off the front of that race in a way that was very difficult considering she was completely solo.
[3:00] SPEAKER_03: The women behind her all had a lot of help from the pro men, which we're going to get into a little bit later.
[3:05] SPEAKER_03: And equally impressive was Chelsea Sodaro, the same thing, kind of spent a lot of time by herself, got involved in the group a little bit, but then ran kind of like the old Chelsea Sodaro.
[3:15] SPEAKER_03: And I just think that after last week, I was convinced it was just Cat Matthews versus Laura Phillip for Kona.
[3:21] SPEAKER_03: But I think the race today at Eagle Man might have shown us that a few more of the women have raised their game as well this year.
[3:27] SPEAKER_03: And I thought Lucy Charles Barclay and Chelsea Sodaro both looked incredible.
[3:31] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, she was on today.
[3:32] SPEAKER_05: 117-26 off the bike.
[3:34] SPEAKER_05: I think the big question as to whether they'll be competitive with Kat and Laura really still remains to be seen as the bike over the Iron Man distance in Kona.
[3:42] SPEAKER_05: The Eagle Man bike course incredibly flat and fast, and a little easier to sort of like fake it till you make it in that race on the bike.
[3:52] SPEAKER_07: Lucy also got past midway in the swim.
[3:56] SPEAKER_07: I don't know if that's something to be worried about.
[3:58] SPEAKER_07: Maybe her uh, you know, swims uh not as in form as it usually is, or maybe this woman, uh Margarita Ryan, uh newcomer onto the scene, is just uh the next LCB in the water, and we just haven't seen much of her yet.
[4:13] SPEAKER_07: I don't I don't know if that's cause for concern.
[4:15] SPEAKER_07: Um, but that that was really my only sort of negative takeaway.
[4:19] SPEAKER_07: Otherwise, she kind of took the race by the horns.
[4:21] SPEAKER_03: Remember this happened to her at Singapore T100 as well, though, where um she didn't just lead the swim early on in the year and then she came out in and and swam just as well as she always has over the Iron Man distance.
[4:33] SPEAKER_07: I feel like Singapore you can never draw any uh extrapolations from that race to anything else.
[4:39] SPEAKER_07: Almost.
[4:40] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, might be a good point, maybe because of the conditions she kind of holds back.
[4:43] SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I'm not worried.
[4:44] SPEAKER_03: Like I still think at Kona, Lucy's gonna be off the front by herself in the swim, isn't she?
[4:48] SPEAKER_03: Or if if there is someone with her, it's not gonna be one of the big hitters like a Chelsea or a Kat or a Laura or even a Taylor Nib, I don't think.
[4:55] SPEAKER_03: Like it's not gonna be someone who is there at the end of the day competing with Lucy.
[5:00] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think that whenever you see someone swimming with Lucy, they're usually a swim specialist and not quite as rounded at all three as someone like Lucy is, and I think that's why Lucy is so good, because she has that swim, but then backs it up with the bike and run as well.
[5:14] SPEAKER_06: Um But what was interesting in at Eagle Man today, I think Chelsea Sidaro was actually eating quite a bit of time out of Lucy for that first half of the run.
[5:24] SPEAKER_06: Um I wonder if Lucy had it under control or if she was, you know, if she didn't want to spend too many biscuits or, you know, was she running scared towards the end, do you think, or do you think she was just kind of cruising it in, and then once Chelsea got within a minute, I think, I think it was about 70 seconds, she decided to, you know, lay down a little bit more speed to to close it out.
[5:44] SPEAKER_03: I think it was just that Chelsea was running very fast early, and Lucy was I I don't think Lucy was holding back at all.
[5:51] SPEAKER_03: Like I don't think she let Chelsea get a minute and then was like, okay, now I'll kind of pick things up.
[5:56] SPEAKER_03: I thought I thought Lucy ran incredibly consistent throughout the entire run.
[5:59] SPEAKER_03: And I think maybe Chelsea just went all in early to try and win the race, and then as happens, you know, like 10 to 14k into it, she kind of slowed down a little bit and and ultimately wasn't able to catch Lucy.
[6:11] SPEAKER_03: But yeah, at like 10, 12k into the race, when it was uh a minute and 15 seconds separating Chelsea and Lucy, it really did look like Chelsea was going to catch her and and maybe even win the race.
[6:22] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree with you, Jack.
[6:23] SPEAKER_05: I mean, the gap basically stayed at 75 seconds the entire last 10k, and we saw them finish one too.
[6:28] SPEAKER_05: So great race.
[6:30] SPEAKER_05: Looking forward to seeing how the rest of their year shape up and what we see in Kona.
[6:33] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's good that we do have a group like who are starting to show themselves.
[6:37] SPEAKER_03: We've obviously had Taylor do what Taylor's done at the start of the year.
[6:40] SPEAKER_03: I know that at Texas she wasn't quite at the level of Kat, but she did ride off the front of that race.
[6:45] SPEAKER_03: And if she can do that at Kona with some motorbike help maybe at the front of the race, I think she can actually be a player.
[6:51] SPEAKER_03: We saw the showdown with Kat and Laura last weekend.
[6:54] SPEAKER_03: And then I think I think Lucy and Chelsea needed to come out and do this for themselves, probably, to like prove to themselves that hey, we are still in that category.
[7:03] SPEAKER_03: Because at the end of the day, they did put a big gap into all the other women in this race.
[7:08] SPEAKER_03: So they've both finished seven or eight minutes ahead of third.
[7:10] SPEAKER_03: And Grace Alexander, who finished third, is no slouch.
[7:13] SPEAKER_03: She's really, really classy, and then even fourth, fifth, and sixth in Danielle Kleiser, Lisa, and Alice.
[7:19] SPEAKER_03: They're they're all class athletes, and Lucy and Chelsea have put so much time in them to like to beat them by seven or eight minutes in a 70.3.
[7:27] SPEAKER_03: I think that shows just how high level this performance was from both Lucy and Chelsea.
[7:32] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, does Chelsea still need to validate for Kono because she didn't do Texas?
[7:38] SPEAKER_03: She would have to.
[7:39] SPEAKER_03: She hasn't done an Iron Man since the Iron Man World Championships in Nice, where she came third last year.
[7:43] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so probably placid is a good guess.
[7:46] SPEAKER_03: I think she's doing placid, yeah.
[7:47] SPEAKER_05: I'd imagine so.
[7:48] SPEAKER_05: Home soil.
[7:50] SPEAKER_05: So it'll be great to see how she does on that course, because that run is tough.
[7:53] SPEAKER_05: It'd be fun to see her run run some people down.
[7:55] SPEAKER_03: There was also some controversy in this women's race, which I think now is probably the perfect time to get into, Justin.
[8:01] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, my headline for the week, Jack, is pro-men get in the way of women's race at Eagle Man.
[8:07] SPEAKER_05: So we have uh some special guest audio from a friend of mine, Lisa Bacharis, an American pro trial.
[8:13] SPEAKER_05: She was fifth place today at Eagle Man, one of the strongest uh female riders in the field, and she shared some audio on what went down today and some of her ideas for how to fix it.
[8:22] SPEAKER_05: So we're gonna break that down.
[8:24] SPEAKER_05: Over to you, Jack.
[8:26] SPEAKER_02: The women started five minutes behind the pro men at Eagle Man, and there were plenty of pro men that came out basically with Alice and I, Alice Alberts and I.
[8:38] SPEAKER_02: And for I would say the 95% of the ride, Alice and I were right behind two pro men that um I don't know who they were, and that I don't think that really matters.
[8:53] SPEAKER_02: Um I came by one pro man, one of the men at one point, and then he repassed me, but I wasn't strong enough to like go in front of them, and so we were legally distanced behind them for pretty much the entire ride.
[9:09] SPEAKER_02: I made it a point to make sure that my light was wasn't on or was barely on sometimes if they would sit up and drink.
[9:16] SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, it's an even when the Iron Man camera came by, I was like, Iron Man needs different rules.
[9:23] SPEAKER_02: Um I think the solutions for that are one minute uh or ten minutes between the pro men and the pro-women.
[9:33] SPEAKER_02: And um, I don't know, I don't know if it's my or our female's responsibility to say, okay, we're staying off the gas, and we're just gonna let them create a gap to us because we easily catch back up.
[9:45] SPEAKER_02: So but not strong enough to get around and ride in front.
[9:49] SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know what the best solution is, but we need 20-meter draft rule for sure.
[9:54] SPEAKER_02: And 10 minutes in between male and female races.
[9:58] SPEAKER_02: Or make a rule where if a female pro passes a male pro on the bike, the male pros races over.
[10:11] SPEAKER_07: That would be harsh.
[10:15] SPEAKER_07: I can because I've got passed out of the water uh by Paula before.
[10:19] SPEAKER_07: It was a two-minute gap, not a five-minute gap.
[10:21] SPEAKER_07: So in my defense, but it took it took me a bit.
[10:24] SPEAKER_07: It was a freezing, freezing day at Indian Wells, and it took me like five miles to like get my legs under me and pass Paula back.
[10:31] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you wouldn't have to worry about that.
[10:33] SPEAKER_05: You'd just be on the side of the road cheering the rest of the race on.
[10:35] SPEAKER_05: You'd be just both up.
[10:36] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I would have loved to just be out of the race that day.
[10:40] SPEAKER_03: It is a problem though, isn't it, guys?
[10:42] SPEAKER_03: Because we we know how good Lisa is on the bike.
[10:45] SPEAKER_03: Alice Alberts, who she rode with, and Alice ultimately ended up having the fastest bike split of the day.
[10:49] SPEAKER_03: Again, we've seen how good she is on the bike, but they rode 206.46 and 206.59 respectively.
[10:56] SPEAKER_03: Lucy and Chelsea in first and second, well, let's let's maybe mainly talk about Lucy, rode 20909.
[11:03] SPEAKER_03: So riding well over two minutes faster than than Lucy Charles did on that day.
[11:07] SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, I'm I'm it's it's a tricky position to be in, and and I feel sorry for them, but I don't think they would have rode two minutes faster than her if the men weren't there and it was 20-meter draft zone.
[11:18] SPEAKER_03: So we clearly do have a problem with with fairness and integrity of the races, don't we?
[11:23] SPEAKER_07: I I think that Taylor Nib last like her form last year, I think she would have ridden about 205 on this course solo off the front, right?
[11:33] SPEAKER_07: She's usually like about 10 minutes slower than the top guys.
[11:36] SPEAKER_07: She was exactly 10 minutes slower than the top guys in uh Taupo last year.
[11:41] SPEAKER_07: They rode just under two hours, she rode 209.
[11:43] SPEAKER_07: Uh and this is a pancake flat course, top guys rode about 155.
[11:49] SPEAKER_07: So yeah, for yeah, Alice and Lisa, like they would not only lose a minute to 2024 Taylor Nib off the front.
[11:59] SPEAKER_07: It's just no disrespect to them, but that's that version of Taylor is probably one of, if not the best, cyclists we've ever seen on the female side of the sport.
[12:08] SPEAKER_07: So yeah, there was definitely some interference, but it's also not their fault.
[12:13] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I mean, there's no debate here.
[12:14] SPEAKER_05: Like Lisa said that you know, 95% of the ride, they were riding behind these guys, and they did nothing wrong, right?
[12:20] SPEAKER_05: That's the bottom line here.
[12:21] SPEAKER_05: Like the fact is, like, they did nothing wrong.
[12:24] SPEAKER_06: It's not their job to get out of the way.
[12:26] SPEAKER_06: Like they shouldn't have to It's on the guys.
[12:28] SPEAKER_06: They shouldn't have to push above threshold to try and drop the you know, the dangling pro men.
[12:34] SPEAKER_05: I think the men should have to ride behind.
[12:37] SPEAKER_05: Breaking the problem down, right?
[12:38] SPEAKER_05: There's like a few scenarios how this happens.
[12:40] SPEAKER_05: There's the women catch the weaker swimming pro men very quickly out of the water and they sit behind them, which is how this went today.
[12:50] SPEAKER_05: And then they basically are like the same strength on the bike and they ride the rest of the race together.
[12:54] SPEAKER_05: There's scenario two where top age group men bridge up to uh the female race and past the front of the female race.
[13:02] SPEAKER_05: But most women I've talked to say that that's not an issue because those are guys that are riding way harder and faster, and they basically just ride by the women's race and they're on their own.
[13:10] SPEAKER_05: So the scenario we're talking about is back of the pack male pros, right?
[13:14] SPEAKER_05: This is the gripe I have with it.
[13:16] SPEAKER_05: These are guys that 99% of the time, unless you flat and you're a 109-110 guy off the bike, you were not racing for money.
[13:26] SPEAKER_05: You're not racing for points, you're not racing at the front of the race.
[13:29] SPEAKER_05: I ran the numbers, and if you were passed without a mechanical by Lisa, Alice, and others, it means you basically started five minutes ahead of them.
[13:38] SPEAKER_05: And if you got past halfway into that bike, it means you swam basically three minutes down if you were in the Trevor Sam group to Lucy, and then you'd be averaging about 210 on the bike if you're getting caught by women who are riding, say, 207, 208.
[13:53] SPEAKER_05: That would have put you in this race in 26th place off the bike as a male.
[13:59] SPEAKER_05: So the problem I have with it at the end of the day is the the guys that are impacting this are guys that are typically finishing slower than the top amateurs in the race, or aren't necessarily fighting for position in a super tactical race.
[14:15] SPEAKER_05: And I'm not saying that those guys should have just also let off the gas.
[14:18] SPEAKER_05: Like it's not their responsibility to just let Lisa and Alice come by.
[14:23] SPEAKER_05: But I do know that there are scenarios where the men will slide into the women's fields and actually change the dynamics or pull a female up to the other woman.
[14:34] SPEAKER_05: And so without the 20-meter draft rule, I'd like to see some kind of solution.
[14:38] SPEAKER_05: I want your guys' thoughts on this.
[14:39] SPEAKER_05: Like, should there be different rules for how the men and the women interact with each other on course?
[14:44] SPEAKER_05: For example, at Unbound Gravel, there are ref marshals on course that can point to a man who's impacting the women's race and just say, go behind them.
[14:52] SPEAKER_05: Like, get out of the way.
[14:53] SPEAKER_05: And it's a discretionary call, basically.
[14:55] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I think we're all really sensitive about this.
[14:58] SPEAKER_03: I don't know why we're so sensitive about the pro men who affect the women's race.
[15:02] SPEAKER_03: Like, they're not good enough to compete in the men's field, not even close.
[15:05] SPEAKER_03: And it's not just an American issue.
[15:06] SPEAKER_03: This isn't just happening in American races.
[15:08] SPEAKER_03: We saw it at Bustleton 70.3 last year in Australia.
[15:12] SPEAKER_03: There was pro-men just blatantly riding with pro-females, and it makes those females who are in that group ride faster, which impacts the women behind them, which is not fair.
[15:21] SPEAKER_03: We also saw it at Challenge Roth.
[15:23] SPEAKER_03: Annie Howe clearly got draft from professional men for a lot of the day.
[15:27] SPEAKER_03: She rode three minutes faster than Laura Phillip on the course that day.
[15:30] SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
[15:31] SPEAKER_03: I don't think I personally don't think that she's putting that three minutes into Laura Phillip on that course if she doesn't get that help from ProMen.
[15:37] SPEAKER_03: So we're we're just seeing this impact professional female races in a way where I don't think we can be as sensitive and worried to like say, oh, these men should get disqualified.
[15:47] SPEAKER_03: If you I I think it's I think that I think it should be really simple.
[15:50] SPEAKER_03: I think the 10-meter start gap between men and women that Lisa suggested is really logical and makes sense because at five minutes, Lucy Charles Barclay is always gonna catch weak swimmers like Ari, for example, and Ari's never gonna be going to be able to race, but he can put potentially podium races.
[16:05] SPEAKER_03: So I think you've got to extend that gap between the start of the the women's swim and the start of the NSC.
[16:10] SPEAKER_07: I hate how seriously you said that.
[16:12] SPEAKER_03: Well, Lucy is gonna if you were racing Eagle Man, I really think Lucy's a chance to catch you there on the weekend.
[16:17] SPEAKER_07: And here's the thing, a three-minute gap.
[16:20] SPEAKER_03: I think that Lucy could catch someone like Sam Long potentially on certain days.
[16:24] SPEAKER_07: So a three-minute gap.
[16:25] SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
[16:25] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, even if it's five, it he it wouldn't, it's not completely out of the question.
[16:30] SPEAKER_03: Now, it probably isn't gonna happen, but there is days where if Lucy's having a great swim day and someone like Sam Long's having a bad day, that that would be pretty close or closer than we would like.
[16:39] SPEAKER_03: So I think make that gap ten minutes, and then I just think after that, if you get caught by a pro woman as a professional man racing at 10 minutes, I just think get disqualified.
[16:50] SPEAKER_03: I completely agree with Lisa.
[16:52] SPEAKER_03: At that point, you're not gonna compete in the race anyway, and if that's happening, you probably should be racing age group anyway.
[16:59] SPEAKER_03: I like I don't think that's a crazy thing to say, and I don't understand why why we're so sensitive to about it.
[17:04] SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, it's great that these men are racing.
[17:06] SPEAKER_03: We we love that.
[17:07] SPEAKER_03: But if they're impacting the women's race like they clearly are, it's just not worth having them out there, and just you're just disqualified if you get caught.
[17:14] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree and disagree.
[17:16] SPEAKER_05: The the kicker there, dark, is the exceptions, right?
[17:18] SPEAKER_05: Sam Long flats on the side of the road.
[17:19] SPEAKER_05: Like Christian Blumenfeld would have been disqualified in Oceanside, right?
[17:22] SPEAKER_05: That's that would be crazy.
[17:24] SPEAKER_05: Like he literally got passed when he was when he flatted um and was stuck for 15 minutes.
[17:28] SPEAKER_05: So I agree and disagree, but it's hard to enforce those exceptions.
[17:32] SPEAKER_05: One of the things that was interesting is St.
[17:34] SPEAKER_05: George, they they did start 10 minutes apart, and it was a great solution.
[17:37] SPEAKER_05: Um, and what was funny is I've been in a bunch of these pro meetings and they never mention this.
[17:41] SPEAKER_05: And so one easy solution I want to mention to every female pro listening is raise your hand at the next pro meeting and stand up in front of the whole room and say what one woman said at St.
[17:51] SPEAKER_05: George, which was all pro men in this room, please do not impact our race.
[17:56] SPEAKER_05: And literally the whole room burst into applause.
[17:58] SPEAKER_05: It was awesome.
[17:59] SPEAKER_05: It was like the coolest moment at a pro meeting I've ever been at a part of.
[18:02] SPEAKER_05: So, men and women, everyone wants this.
[18:04] SPEAKER_05: And you know, if you're a back-of-the-back pro, let them through, create that gap, and be on your way.
[18:09] SPEAKER_05: What if it's just a two-minute penalty?
[18:11] SPEAKER_07: Like uh for the Christian example, he had like, even though he had a flat, he obviously didn't care.
[18:18] SPEAKER_07: He just took his time getting into T2 and ran a 107.
[18:20] SPEAKER_07: What if he just had to spend an extra two minutes in the penalty tent, you know, to avoid disqualification?
[18:27] SPEAKER_07: Like his day was already over.
[18:28] SPEAKER_07: He didn't care.
[18:28] SPEAKER_07: I feel like very rarely if you actually flat and you're there long enough to get passed by the front of the pro women's race, like your day's over.
[18:36] SPEAKER_03: Just and and then for men It's not about the men's race.
[18:40] SPEAKER_03: We're not we're not we shouldn't be trying to penalize the man for getting caught by giving them a penalty because then they can still ride with the women for the rest of the ride.
[18:47] SPEAKER_03: It's that they're impacting the women's race.
[18:49] SPEAKER_03: So you're thinking about that from the perspective of Christian and his race.
[18:53] SPEAKER_03: It's not about that, it's about penalizing the men so that they don't continue to interfere with the women's race.
[18:59] SPEAKER_03: And if he just gets a penalty into T2, then that still means that he can ride with women all the way into T2.
[19:04] SPEAKER_07: The thought was it's it's so the Christian example was just so Justin brought it up, and oh, so Christian would get disqualified.
[19:10] SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, okay, what if you're if you don't have a mechanical or anything going wrong and you're just sort of back of the pack pro-male?
[19:16] SPEAKER_07: Your day's not over.
[19:17] SPEAKER_07: You don't get disqualified, but a penalty, a 30-second penalty, like sh some way to make sure that you you just have to drop back.
[19:24] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but it doesn't help anything, or you'll just ride with the eighth place woman instead of the third place woman.
[19:29] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's still thinking about it from the wrong perspective, right?
[19:32] SPEAKER_03: Like we've got to think about it from the perspective of the women and not impacting their race in any way.
[19:37] SPEAKER_03: And the only way you can do that is just to get rid of the men.
[19:40] SPEAKER_03: Because like I can't see another solution where they don't impact the race.
[19:43] SPEAKER_05: How about 20-meter draft zone?
[19:45] SPEAKER_05: Doesn't that fix like 90% of this?
[19:48] SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
[19:49] SPEAKER_05: Like the the impact is so minimized if you're riding 25, 26 miles an hour at 20 instead of 12.
[19:56] SPEAKER_06: The technical official with the front of the female race just needs to use their discretion to get those pro men.
[20:02] SPEAKER_06: I think it's tricky to make these object objective rules in place.
[20:07] SPEAKER_06: Um I think the solution is the technical official riding with the front of the female race just needs to go up to the pro-men and be like, you need to either drop back or you know, you need to do some VO2 max and get out of this pack.
[20:21] SPEAKER_03: Don't you think that just creates a whole lot of confusion though, Apo?
[20:24] SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, let's say you you implement a yellow and a red card system where if there's like we saw on the weekend, there's professional men riding with a group with like Alice and Lisa.
[20:33] SPEAKER_03: If you go up to them and be like, okay, yellow cards, you're interfering with the women's race, this is your warning.
[20:38] SPEAKER_03: You either have to get up the road or you have to drop back.
[20:41] SPEAKER_03: And if you do it again, then you'll get a red card and you'll be disqualified.
[20:44] SPEAKER_03: Because if you if you do Yeah, I like that because otherwise they could put in a five-minute VO2 effort and get get up the road and get you know 500 metres ahead of Lisa and Alice, but it's very likely they just get caught again, isn't it?
[20:57] SPEAKER_03: And continue to interfere with it, and then you've got a TO who has to sit on that group the whole way, and then they can be drafting up the road in another group, and it just becomes all convoluted and confusing.
[21:07] SPEAKER_03: I just think, yeah, either an automatic red card or one warning, get out of that group, and if you do it again, red card.
[21:15] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I like that, Jack.
[21:16] SPEAKER_05: Here's here's one thing.
[21:17] SPEAKER_05: Let's put some pressure on Iron Man here.
[21:19] SPEAKER_05: They have to make the gap 10 minutes instead of five minutes.
[21:22] SPEAKER_05: It's complete bullshit that they say, oh, well, we only have roads permits open until 3 p.m.
[21:29] SPEAKER_05: and the gun goes off at 6.30, and the biggest gap we could do is 6.30 to 635.
[21:34] SPEAKER_05: It's like, dude, you're spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars on the Pro Series, and you're leaving those dollars for these professional female athletes, some of the best in the world, up to chance with the men's race.
[21:49] SPEAKER_05: And and the easiest fix here is do what you did in St.
[21:52] SPEAKER_05: George, require it to be 10 minutes, build that into your plan when you're planning the wave starts or limiting entry fee, or I'm sorry, number of.
[22:00] SPEAKER_05: Entrance in the amateur field and plan against that.
[22:04] SPEAKER_05: Pay the extra couple thousand bucks to keep the road open five minutes longer.
[22:08] SPEAKER_07: What was the release that they so they said they're doing 10 minutes when possible.
[22:11] SPEAKER_07: Exactly.
[22:12] SPEAKER_07: It's always now at least five minutes.
[22:13] SPEAKER_07: They're never doing a two or a three minute, it's always five, but ten when possible.
[22:18] SPEAKER_07: And that comes down to permits and uh number of entries in the race.
[22:22] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean look, San Francisco last weekend, T100, something they're doing right.
[22:26] SPEAKER_05: Or the the race was 45 minutes apart.
[22:28] SPEAKER_05: We didn't even share the bike course with the women.
[22:30] SPEAKER_05: So look, that city is the hardest city in the world and the most expensive to do permitting for.
[22:34] SPEAKER_05: And they made it happen.
[22:36] SPEAKER_05: So look, Iron Man has deep pockets, they have resources, they have tons of experience.
[22:40] SPEAKER_05: Like, this is just not that hard to do.
[22:43] SPEAKER_03: I refuse to believe that five minutes is that big a deal.
[22:46] SPEAKER_03: Like fair if we're talking about an hour, I understand it.
[22:49] SPEAKER_03: But five five extra minutes, I I just don't.
[22:52] SPEAKER_03: I just I highly doubt it's I think it's one of those things where there's like a nice convenient excuse that you can use that people can't question.
[22:59] SPEAKER_03: It's like, no, we have these road closures, we have to do this.
[23:02] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just I don't know, I'm not buying it.
[23:04] SPEAKER_03: I think ten minutes is the the obvious starting point that Lisa makes that is just it has to be universal.
[23:09] SPEAKER_03: Every single Iron Man race that has a pro-male and pro-female field has to be 10 minutes between them.
[23:14] SPEAKER_03: And and it it can't ever be less than that.
[23:17] SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, if you extrapolate this, it can't affect a world championships.
[23:22] SPEAKER_03: You know, it can't affect big races.
[23:23] SPEAKER_03: We just can't let this happen.
[23:24] SPEAKER_03: And look, I don't want to be like uh all conspiracy theory here, but who's to say that if you're a pro-woman and you have pro-male training partners, you couldn't just be like, hey, can you just help me on this race?
[23:36] SPEAKER_03: Like you've got to plan for worst case settings.
[23:37] SPEAKER_03: That's happened.
[23:38] SPEAKER_06: It's happened in the amateur field, yeah.
[23:41] SPEAKER_06: It happened in an Iron Man, I think, in uh was it uh Lanzarote last year or something?
[23:47] SPEAKER_07: I think there was a bit of second place or something.
[23:49] SPEAKER_07: It was like a coach helping his female athlete, yeah.
[23:52] SPEAKER_05: And like the problem is they're not really breaking any rules.
[23:55] SPEAKER_05: You can argue it's unethical, but they're not.
[23:57] SPEAKER_05: I mean, everybody's trying to do everything you can within a legal realm, right?
[24:01] SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, we're taking ketones and getting up early and doing whatever else we can find.
[24:05] SPEAKER_05: And it's like if you're a woman and you're playing by the rules, how can you fault them?
[24:10] SPEAKER_05: So I think the 20-meter draft solves some of that, obviously.
[24:13] SPEAKER_05: Um but you know, here's what's gonna happen.
[24:15] SPEAKER_05: If we don't solve for these things, we are going to get to a point where we see a podium finisher at Kona drafting a male training partner at 12 meters.
[24:24] SPEAKER_05: Like, I think we'll see that in the next few years if we don't change some things.
[24:28] SPEAKER_07: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
[24:28] SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
[24:28] SPEAKER_07: Well, I'm excited before these changes come for Justin to come to Lake Placid and pace me on the swim in the bike and drop me off into T2 for 50% of my prize money.
[24:38] SPEAKER_07: So off uh I think we've covered the women's race very in detail, but my big headline is from the men's race, and that is Trevor Foley is back.
[24:48] SPEAKER_07: We've got one of the fastest cyclists ever in Kona, who basically did it solo, crashed out, we didn't get to see him on the run.
[24:55] SPEAKER_07: Last year's Lake Placid Champ, and one of the best Iron Man performances we've ever seen, especially in North America.
[25:01] SPEAKER_07: That was crazy.
[25:02] SPEAKER_07: Very rough start to the year with a DNF at Texas and uh dropped seat posts at St.
[25:07] SPEAKER_07: George, but he is back, just 26 seconds back from Sam Long, pretty much going toe-to-toe the whole race.
[25:13] SPEAKER_07: Uh they kind of both gapped each other at points.
[25:16] SPEAKER_07: Uh it looked like Sam was really putting the pressure on, but podium finish, really, like really toe-to-toe with Sam Long, who we know is uh one of the guys in North America slash the world this year.
[25:29] SPEAKER_07: So that's big performance.
[25:32] SPEAKER_07: Uh bodes well for him defending his title at Lake Placid and it ultimately uh the build-up to Nice later this year.
[25:40] SPEAKER_06: I think, yeah.
[25:41] SPEAKER_06: I think it was a great race.
[25:42] SPEAKER_06: I mean, people had some doubts um, you know, before this race, myself included.
[25:47] SPEAKER_06: Um so yeah, it's a great, a great step forward for Trev Trevor.
[25:50] SPEAKER_06: And I'm sad that I have to race him next weekend in Boulder.
[25:54] SPEAKER_07: Oh, yeah, back to back.
[25:55] SPEAKER_07: And and it's worth noting that Trevor seems to have a much, much higher ceiling at Iron Man, if not just based on those two performances in Lake Placid and uh the bike course in Kona.
[26:06] SPEAKER_07: I mean, it took him a bunch of tries to get the Iron Man right, but uh when he got it right last year, like he he crushed it.
[26:13] SPEAKER_03: I I don't think it's that Trevor came second that's the surprise here, is it?
[26:17] SPEAKER_03: Like Trevor is the class of this field apart from Sam Long.
[26:20] SPEAKER_03: It's how he came second.
[26:22] SPEAKER_03: He only finished 27 seconds behind Sam.
[26:24] SPEAKER_03: Once he got dropped by him on the run, you kind of would expect that to go back to 45 seconds, 60 seconds, but it didn't.
[26:30] SPEAKER_03: Trevor just held tough.
[26:32] SPEAKER_03: And to hold that gap at like 15 seconds, 20 seconds for as long as he did, yeah.
[26:36] SPEAKER_03: I thought it bowed really well.
[26:37] SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't that he came second because I would have expected him to come second.
[26:41] SPEAKER_03: It was just how hard he pushed Sam long, how well he rode, and then ran off it.
[26:45] SPEAKER_03: I I do think that this is the performance Trevor probably need probably needed for himself to get his confidence back.
[26:50] SPEAKER_03: I think from here we're gonna see a big year from Trevor.
[26:54] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think we might see a 149 next week, Apple.
[26:57] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, he rode 152 last year.
[26:59] SPEAKER_06: I think 151.
[27:01] SPEAKER_06: 151, was it?
[27:02] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[27:03] SPEAKER_06: Just suck that wheel.
[27:05] SPEAKER_06: Hopefully he passes me right at the end and we can uh get off and run together, but uh we'll see what happens.
[27:11] SPEAKER_07: My sub headline from this race uh many people may have been looking at the results and wondered who the hell is Luke Jones in sixth?
[27:19] SPEAKER_07: And for that matter, I wondered who the hell is Matthew Collins, who actually got on the podium, but that's not my subheadline.
[27:25] SPEAKER_07: Luke Jones, a bloke I met last year who might be the real LinkedIn of the triathlon world.
[27:33] SPEAKER_07: This guy, full-time, full, full-time job, self-coached, very chill, also the partner of Margarita Ryan, who passed Lucy uh halfway through the swim.
[27:44] SPEAKER_07: Uh huge result from him.
[27:46] SPEAKER_07: Just swam in that second pack back from Greg, stayed in there on the bike all day, basically hanging on yes, it's a pancake flat course, but he was hanging on Robert Callan's wheel for 40, 50k, which is not easy to do.
[27:59] SPEAKER_07: And then, yeah, ran a 115 to come into sixth.
[28:02] SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
[28:03] SPEAKER_07: Toe-to-toe, Justin, on this day in Eagle Man, what do you think?
[28:07] SPEAKER_07: Who's who's the real full-time worker who wins?
[28:11] SPEAKER_05: Uh it would have been a good battle, actually, I think.
[28:14] SPEAKER_05: Um I would have been right there, I think, somewhere between sixth and tenth, which is exactly why I didn't race this bullshit pancake flat race at 12 meter draft zone.
[28:23] SPEAKER_05: Like, we gotta get rid of these bike courses, man.
[28:25] SPEAKER_05: It's too easy to sit in at 30 miles an hour on a flat course.
[28:28] SPEAKER_05: It just makes the course less exciting and it becomes a running race.
[28:31] SPEAKER_07: So anyway, that's my so I say, do you think you could take this guy?
[28:35] SPEAKER_07: And your response is this course is bullshit, we need to change the rules.
[28:38] SPEAKER_07: That's my answer.
[28:38] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I don't know.
[28:39] SPEAKER_05: On this course, I don't know, I don't know, probably not.
[28:42] SPEAKER_05: I think on any real difficult bike course, yeah, I could take him.
[28:46] SPEAKER_03: Okay, so the the joke here is that Justin Riale, our our co-host, thinks that he's the best full-time professional athlete in Triflone.
[28:53] SPEAKER_03: I don't know how well Ari set that up, but behind the scenes, Justin will tell us that every time he gets an opportunity.
[29:00] SPEAKER_05: I've literally never said that, Jack.
[29:04] SPEAKER_03: We've got messages.
[29:05] SPEAKER_03: Uh but I think what what Ari is is contending here that maybe he's not even in the top three.
[29:10] SPEAKER_03: Obviously, Antonio Benito Lopez is the best full-time worker who also does trython in the world.
[29:16] SPEAKER_03: I think maybe there's an argument that you were second, Justin.
[29:19] SPEAKER_05: I don't you should look at the San Francisco results last weekend.
[29:22] SPEAKER_05: I've only raced him once.
[29:23] SPEAKER_05: He did, but you did beat him, 14th and 16th, right?
[29:26] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[29:27] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[29:27] SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, he's won a fair bit more than you.
[29:30] SPEAKER_03: But anyway.
[29:30] SPEAKER_05: I know.
[29:31] SPEAKER_05: I agree.
[29:31] SPEAKER_05: I'm totally joking around.
[29:33] SPEAKER_05: I'm just saying, hey, head to head, we got one.
[29:35] SPEAKER_03: He must have had a busier work week the week before.
[29:38] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then you know, there's the argument is Matthew Marquot a full-time worker or a part-time researcher in med school.
[29:44] SPEAKER_06: Speaking of uh T-100 San Francisco, I my topic of the week is the T-100, in my opinion, hasn't lived up to its promise.
[29:54] SPEAKER_06: I think the T-100 races were better when they had those three or four races, um, you know, the Canadian Open, the US Open, the European Open, they had all those plans.
[30:07] SPEAKER_06: They got 40 to 50 of the best men and women, and everyone was there.
[30:11] SPEAKER_06: Now that they've started the series, it just seems like they have diluted the racing pool.
[30:18] SPEAKER_06: And I think it's clear that Iron Man is the priority for most people.
[30:24] SPEAKER_06: And you see that with the amount of wildcards that are getting offered at every race.
[30:29] SPEAKER_06: And there's only 20 slots to fill at each race.
[30:32] SPEAKER_06: And I think San Francisco had close to ten men and ten women wildcards.
[30:37] SPEAKER_06: And I just think, you know, they wanted this season-long narrative of all the same people racing, you know, eight, nine, ten times a year with the rumors.
[30:46] SPEAKER_06: And I just don't think it's living up to the hype.
[30:48] SPEAKER_06: And I want them to go back to the three to four races, have fifty men, fifty women, invite the best, and put up that hundred grand prize um, you know, or whatever it was, like a million dollars with a hundred grand for every win.
[31:01] SPEAKER_06: I think that's that was the best.
[31:03] SPEAKER_06: That was the golden T 100 years, in my opinion.
[31:07] SPEAKER_06: I I agree.
[31:08] SPEAKER_07: Those just in memory, those race and it was like maybe there's an element of the the PTO was just like before T-100 existed, it was just getting started, and there was this uh feeling of excitement in the triathlon world of like, oh, what's this going to turn into?
[31:23] SPEAKER_07: There's so much money on the line, everyone is showing up to these races.
[31:28] SPEAKER_07: But it's hard to say, do you think it still would have been like that?
[31:31] SPEAKER_07: Do you think it would have had that sustainability that now three, four years later, uh you know, is it just the prize money?
[31:37] SPEAKER_07: Like everybody would show up?
[31:38] SPEAKER_07: Because I agree with the wild cards, like it's it shouldn't be so hard to fill these races, but you brought up the Pro Series, those are ending up being the blockbuster races where it's like, oh, everybody's showing up to these.
[31:51] SPEAKER_06: I think if the T-100 have three to four races, you would get a lot more people being able to commit to those big races, and you'd be able to get all the names.
[32:00] SPEAKER_06: I think it's just hard for people to commit to, you know, five, I don't know what the contract is.
[32:06] SPEAKER_06: I think it's five or six, five races plus the grand final, which is quite a lot.
[32:10] SPEAKER_06: And then it kind of takes away your ability to race any other races, um, unless you're someone like Sam Long, who just he's in a um, you know, he's an exception, not the rule.
[32:20] SPEAKER_06: But um, yeah, I just think if they went back to that three to four races, had, you know, the Asian Open, American Open, European Open, you know, spread them out throughout the 12 months of the year and just had everyone there, I think it would draw much, you know, it was it it would be like 70.3 worlds, but three to four times per year.
[32:40] SPEAKER_06: It seems like a lot of people have one foot in and one foot out.
[32:43] SPEAKER_03: Yes, it definitely does.
[32:44] SPEAKER_03: Taylor nibs the shining light of this.
[32:46] SPEAKER_03: You were contractually obligated to do Singapore the first race of the year if you were a T100 contracted athlete.
[32:51] SPEAKER_03: She decided not to do that to prioritize getting prepped for Iron Man Texas, plus she had some personal things going on on the side, and I think it's been put out there, but she lost dollars because of that.
[33:01] SPEAKER_03: She had a dollar media contract with the T-100 and and they stripped her of it because of it.
[33:07] SPEAKER_03: Um so like that's the shining light example of it.
[33:10] SPEAKER_03: And I also think we're not seeing the best of Taylor Nib this year because maybe she's, yeah, like you said, one foot in, one foot out, Apo.
[33:16] SPEAKER_03: But if that is all true, which I I agree with you, I think it probably is.
[33:21] SPEAKER_03: Can the PTO make enough money from that that they can survive as a business?
[33:26] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think the answer is no, because they didn't, right?
[33:28] SPEAKER_05: Like they had to pivot and they created this series as an outcome of whatever they were doing, not meeting shareholder expectations and growing fast enough and attracting enough media contracts.
[33:40] SPEAKER_05: And so I think the the F1 model of the T100 World Tour is quite aspirational, but it doesn't seem like the financial incentives are aligning for the top athletes to actually make it their number one priority.
[33:52] SPEAKER_05: So, you know, I don't know.
[33:54] SPEAKER_05: You look at Taylor Nibb passing on, but like if she goes and wins Texas, it's you know, her her her output is well north of that.
[34:02] SPEAKER_05: And I think a lot of sponsor contracts they're really shining a light on the Iron Man World Championship and continue to do so, as well as for 70.3 worlds, with T100 kind of being on the same footing, at least in my contracts, as a typical Pro Series race.
[34:18] SPEAKER_05: So there's not a lot of incentives for you know sponsored athletes to I don't know, really focus on it because I think brands in the space that are funding a lot of these pros pockets are still a little bit skeptical of the longevity and how the amateurs approach T-100 since they're not the ones really racing it and have that, you know, tie to the brand like they do with Iron Man.
[34:40] SPEAKER_07: Do you do you think this would work?
[34:42] SPEAKER_07: Here's a uh idea.
[34:43] SPEAKER_07: I haven't thought it out.
[34:45] SPEAKER_07: I came up with it 10 seconds ago.
[34:47] SPEAKER_07: T-100 offers exclusive contracts, and it's a lot of money, and you you're not allowed to race anything else except one qualifying Iron Man and the Iron Man World Championships.
[34:59] SPEAKER_07: I feel like a lot of people would bite on that.
[35:01] SPEAKER_07: And they and they said, okay, we understand the Iron Man World Championships is too big.
[35:05] SPEAKER_07: It's kind of ruining our mojo right now that our event is not big enough or lucrative enough for people to want to forego the Iron Man World Championships.
[35:13] SPEAKER_07: So we just have to kind of build around that one event a little bit.
[35:17] SPEAKER_07: Do you think it would work?
[35:18] SPEAKER_05: I think it's a good idea, Ari.
[35:20] SPEAKER_05: Um, I think you'd have certain athletes saying yes.
[35:23] SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm just gonna throw some names out there.
[35:24] SPEAKER_05: Like Martin Vinreal seems like that's kind of like his season plan.
[35:27] SPEAKER_05: He's all in on T-100, but he did South Africa and he's gonna go to Nice.
[35:30] SPEAKER_05: I think there's like a few other athletes that are in that.
[35:32] SPEAKER_05: Sam Long, that's kind of his same, like he's Yeah, but Sam Long just filled his pockets at St.
[35:37] SPEAKER_05: George, Chattanooga, and Eagle Man, probably well north of his entire T-100 base salary.
[35:42] SPEAKER_03: Is there a middle ground here?
[35:43] SPEAKER_03: Like maybe three to four is not enough, but maybe eight to ten is too many.
[35:47] SPEAKER_03: Is there a middle ground where it's like, and I've said this last year, I think the perfect solution is you do five to six, but probably five T-100 races, you do one a month, and you do it in the period of the year where there aren't other big races.
[36:00] SPEAKER_03: So I think you stop trying to compete with Iron Man Worlds and 70.3 worlds and you don't even worry about it.
[36:05] SPEAKER_03: And you give athletes enough time at the start of the year that they can go and do New Zealand and South Africa and even potentially Texas, so it doesn't impact with the T100 race calendar, but they can still qualify for Iron Man World Championships.
[36:17] SPEAKER_03: And you just do a you just do a race a month at the in the middle five months of the year.
[36:21] SPEAKER_03: Whatever it is, like whether it's like May, June, July, August, September, and you make your last one the start of September, or you go April, May, June, July, August, and you have your grand final in August and your first race way back in in like maybe at the end of April, and then you compact it all.
[36:37] SPEAKER_03: I think it's a great way to build hype because I don't think the model where Singapore was like two months before the second race of the year is one that they want to do going forward, and I don't think they are going to with other races, but I think yeah, just compact them.
[36:50] SPEAKER_03: Five races, one a month.
[36:52] SPEAKER_03: Everyone has to race all of those races.
[36:54] SPEAKER_03: It doesn't impact with your Iron Man race schedule.
[36:56] SPEAKER_03: I think that to me that's the perfect middle ground solution.
[36:59] SPEAKER_07: That's kind of what the haters are doing anyway.
[37:02] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean look, we are like I certainly want T100 to be successful, and it's it's a tricky business venture.
[37:09] SPEAKER_05: Like props to all those guys like still chugging along five years in, because it's it's hard.
[37:13] SPEAKER_05: It's gonna be hard to turn this thing into a profitable venture without becoming a full-blown global events business like Iron Man.
[37:19] SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna maybe just change direction here a little bit, but I I do want it to put out there in advance that this next segment is supposed to be taken completely seriously as well.
[37:30] SPEAKER_03: Um, me, Justin, Ari, Greg, we're okay, but we're not Sam Appleton.
[37:34] SPEAKER_03: We haven't been in the sport since we were six years old.
[37:37] SPEAKER_03: You know, Apo's just as experienced as anyone in the world, and because we had him on here today, we wanted to take full advantage of him, and that's why it's time for this.
[37:49] SPEAKER_08: Sam Appleton's ten triathlon commandments.
[37:58] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt never start a race without doing at least three sacrifices to the Porter John.
[38:07] SPEAKER_06: Minimum three.
[38:09] SPEAKER_07: Three.
[38:10] SPEAKER_06: Right, number two.
[38:12] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt never take advice, training or otherwise, from Lionel Sanders YouTube.
[38:18] SPEAKER_06: Lionel is an anomaly, and no one should try and emulate his axe.
[38:23] SPEAKER_06: Thou shall never be afraid to do less training than what you see on people's YouTube channels and what you hear on the triathlon hour interviews.
[38:31] SPEAKER_06: Hashtag team low volume.
[38:33] SPEAKER_06: Plus one, team low volume.
[38:35] SPEAKER_06: That's terrifying.
[38:38] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt learn to use the pace clock in the pool and ditch the Garmin devices.
[38:43] SPEAKER_06: Oh, alright.
[38:44] SPEAKER_06: Off brand Greg.
[38:45] SPEAKER_03: Need Greg back.
[38:46] SPEAKER_03: You really are just replacing.
[38:47] SPEAKER_06: I was actually hoping Greg would be here so he could back me up on this.
[38:50] SPEAKER_06: But this one, thou shall never feel bad about running on the treadmill at 0% incline.
[38:55] SPEAKER_03: Oh, amen god.
[38:58] SPEAKER_06: Interesting.
[39:01] SPEAKER_06: Where did this 1% you have to do all your running at 1% come from?
[39:04] SPEAKER_07: It came from the ether, and it seems true.
[39:06] SPEAKER_07: So I've done it my entire life.
[39:08] SPEAKER_07: Like someone told me when I started running 1415, and I can't I just can't run flat now.
[39:15] SPEAKER_06: I did it for many, many years, and once I went to 0%, release those shackles, you'll be a new man.
[39:21] SPEAKER_03: I couldn't agree more, Apo.
[39:22] SPEAKER_03: And there's been a there was a research paper done on this that I was reading not that long ago, um, that basically concluded that it increased the incidence of calf-related injury by running on a treadmill with one to two percent gradient, and there was no benefit, like they didn't really conclude that there was any benefit to running at one one percent.
[39:41] SPEAKER_03: Um I think the origination of it was from a study where they had like a lot of different athletes running on the treadmill for six minutes at a time, and it that was like it was all based off that, and so they had you know uh whatever the the results were, but they were positive results.
[39:58] SPEAKER_03: But the athletes only ran at each different incline for six minutes, and like you're never just running on the treadmill for six minutes, you're gonna be on there for 30, 40, 60, 90 minutes, so it was completely not applicable.
[40:09] SPEAKER_03: But I couldn't agree more.
[40:11] SPEAKER_03: If it's gonna like just just use heart rate to govern how you run on the treadmill, right?
[40:16] SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
[40:16] SPEAKER_06: That's what I do.
[40:17] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I like the treadmill for leg speed and you know, running at zero percent, it's good stimulus, good leg speed.
[40:24] SPEAKER_06: If you're doing thresholds or you know, reps at threshold, follow your heart rate, that governs how hard you're working, not the incline or the um or the pace.
[40:34] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you also can never trust a treadmill piece.
[40:36] SPEAKER_06: No.
[40:37] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
[40:37] SPEAKER_03: So be guided by heart rate.
[40:39] SPEAKER_03: And like I think the thing is that people go, yeah, but to like account for wind resistance or whatever it is, so it doesn't feel like it's running, you're you're running downhill, put it on one percent.
[40:47] SPEAKER_03: But there was a study done that concluded that the running mechanics you have at 0% on a treadmill and running outside are like um the same, no different.
[40:57] SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't matter.
[40:58] SPEAKER_03: Like it's just a complete wives tale.
[41:00] SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter.
[41:00] SPEAKER_03: This is I'm so on board this one, Apo.
[41:02] SPEAKER_05: So I ran 75 minutes on the treadmill this morning, the first of many, many treadmill runs for my desert summer here.
[41:09] SPEAKER_05: And I started at 0% for a while, and then I kind of ticked it up to 2%, went down to 1%, went back to 0, went up to 1, went up to 2.
[41:15] SPEAKER_05: Mostly just to kind of like mimic a little bit of outdoor variation and just mix it up.
[41:21] SPEAKER_05: What were what are our thoughts on that kind of approach?
[41:24] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm all for it.
[41:25] SPEAKER_06: All for it.
[41:26] SPEAKER_06: I think, yeah, mixing it up, mix up the incline, mix up the speed a little bit.
[41:29] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, mimic some outdoor running.
[41:31] SPEAKER_06: Um, I think on an easy run, then that's completely fine.
[41:34] SPEAKER_06: But if you're doing intervals, you don't have to be stressed about running at 1%.
[41:38] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree, Apple.
[41:39] SPEAKER_03: That's the big thing, is you can use incline on a treadmill, particularly for an easy run.
[41:43] SPEAKER_03: Mix it up, that's good.
[41:44] SPEAKER_03: And you can do hill reps on a treadmill, that's good.
[41:47] SPEAKER_03: But don't be like shackled by this idea that if you're doing a session, you have to have it at 1% or 1.5 or 2 or even 0.5, because all you're doing is putting so much load onto your calf and Achilles that you haven't done anywhere any other time.
[42:01] SPEAKER_03: So you're you're increasing your risk of injury in a big way and in a way that doesn't matter because it doesn't affect your mechanics if it's on 0%, and if you be guided by heart rate, it doesn't matter, you can just adjust the speed, and like Abo said, then you get all the benefits of like um of increasing leg turnover and and all the neuromuscular benefits that come with that.
[42:19] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt never show up to a ride with a friend in race setup, causing said friend to ride 30 watts harder just to keep up.
[42:27] SPEAKER_06: Oh, I'm definitely going to tap it to me.
[42:30] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so if you show up to a group ride and you're you've got Continental Gator skins on and aluminium reel aluminum rims, and you show up and your mate's got, you know, 65mm deep wheels with Continental GP5000 TTs, and you're going for an easy ride, you're having to ride 250 watts for his 220.
[42:49] SPEAKER_06: So you're just getting stronger.
[42:51] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but do you own aluminum wheels and gator skins, Alpo?
[42:56] SPEAKER_06: No.
[42:58] SPEAKER_06: But it's happened to me before, many years ago, and I still haven't forgiven this person.
[43:03] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think you can't do it without telling them, can you?
[43:05] SPEAKER_03: If you tell them, and then it's up to them to decide, okay, yeah, I am gonna go and make this ride uh harder, but if you just show up to what is described as hey, want to go do an easy ride and you're in full race setup, that is that's a sin.
[43:17] SPEAKER_06: Here's another one.
[43:18] SPEAKER_06: They'll shall not concern themselves with the wattage of other athletes and only compare power numbers to themselves.
[43:25] SPEAKER_06: I just see so many people talking about numbers and you know, Rico Bogan 390.
[43:32] SPEAKER_06: Um it's amazing, you know, the highest numbers ever.
[43:36] SPEAKER_06: But then Um Yellagin said he only rode 320 watts or something, you know, and he o he didn't ride that much slower.
[43:44] SPEAKER_06: He was the second uh second on the road at San Francisco.
[43:47] SPEAKER_06: So I'm just like numbers don't mean anything.
[43:50] SPEAKER_06: Like you can only compare numbers to yourself, and don't get caught up in what numbers other people are pushing.
[43:55] SPEAKER_03: It's so wise, it's so smart, it's so logical, but it's so hard to do that.
[44:00] SPEAKER_06: As a small guy, this one resonates with me.
[44:02] SPEAKER_05: This is just the the wise experience of an old Appleton that Ari and I are just taking in becoming sages because you can see me and Ari looking at each other because we are both very guilty of always talking about other dudes' watts.
[44:18] SPEAKER_06: Maybe it's just because my watts aren't as impressive.
[44:20] SPEAKER_06: Maybe these aren't the Ten Commandments that you know everyone should live by.
[44:24] SPEAKER_06: Maybe it's my subconscious insecurities, running at zero percent, low power numbers, you know, getting dropped off.
[44:33] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt remain humble in both victory and defeat.
[44:36] SPEAKER_06: Short and succinct to that one.
[44:39] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt only commit crimes of fashion in service of arrow gains.
[44:45] SPEAKER_05: Is Sam Lawn wearing a pink suit to the pro briefing at St.
[44:49] SPEAKER_05: George a crime of fashion?
[44:51] SPEAKER_06: Well, it's not saving him watts, so yes, it is a crime of fashion.
[44:54] SPEAKER_03: I thought he looked good.
[44:58] SPEAKER_06: You don't need seven drink bottles on your bike for a two-hour ride at Boulder 70.3.
[45:05] SPEAKER_06: Is that a crime of fashion?
[45:07] SPEAKER_05: I mean that's a that's in service of that's in service of arrow.
[45:10] SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes, yes, true.
[45:11] SPEAKER_06: So that actually is, in this commandment, that is allowed.
[45:15] SPEAKER_05: Um what about Ari's arrow gloves at 70.3 Chattanooga?
[45:21] SPEAKER_05: Those were like two watts, bro.
[45:22] SPEAKER_07: And they look cool.
[45:24] SPEAKER_07: Tested?
[45:25] SPEAKER_07: Uh no, tested on Hayden Wild, I assume.
[45:32] SPEAKER_06: Alright, the last one.
[45:34] SPEAKER_06: Thou shalt not tag or mention any brand that doesn't sponsor you.
[45:38] SPEAKER_03: What if you're a suffering, poor pro triathlete who doesn't have any brand sponsoring you, so you're just throwing it out there trying to get any bit of attention and love from a brand so that they might sponsor you.
[45:48] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I I'm kind of in or or you just like the brand and you want to be like honest about like, yeah, I tag because like if you only tag brands that pay you, you're not really trustworthy.
[46:01] SPEAKER_07: But if every once in a while you tag a brand that like you're not associated with, I feel like it adds a little bit of like, oh, he's just recommending a legitimately good product and they're not paying him.
[46:10] SPEAKER_03: But this is like the whole point, is yes, Ari, that's a hundred percent true.
[46:14] SPEAKER_03: But pro tri athletes don't do that.
[46:16] SPEAKER_03: That's that's the irony of this commandment.
[46:18] SPEAKER_03: That's what that's that's the joke he's making, really, isn't it?
[46:21] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[46:21] SPEAKER_06: And I mean, I think you can caveat and say, you know, not sponsored, really like this.
[46:26] SPEAKER_06: That's fine.
[46:28] SPEAKER_06: Um, but I probably also wouldn't take social media advice from me because I post once every month.
[46:33] SPEAKER_06: Same.
[46:34] SPEAKER_06: Do with these commandments as you will, go forth and um use this information to become better triathletes.
[46:41] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I will say I've never gotten a sponsor by tagging them on Instagram.
[46:44] SPEAKER_05: Like, that ain't how it works.
[46:48] SPEAKER_05: At Porsche, sponsor me.
[46:50] SPEAKER_05: Like, it doesn't work like that.
[46:51] SPEAKER_05: You build a relationship.
[46:52] SPEAKER_05: So so I do think like if you can as a pro be somebody that only tags brands that pay you, you create a little bit of exclusivity and you show those brands that, like, hey, that's you know, that is what you're paying for.
[47:08] SPEAKER_06: It's also valuing yourself, you know, knowing your worth and um yeah, I mean, there is athletes that will take you know, do a lot of advertising for nothing, and then that kind of brings down everyone's ability to earn, right?
[47:27] SPEAKER_06: Like if you have someone going to a company saying, Oh, I want you know ten thousand dollars and two bikes a year, and then they're like, Well, why would we do that when we can sponsor this person who's already doing tagging and everything for nothing?
[47:41] SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
[47:41] SPEAKER_05: Which is you know, the age grouper with 10,000 Instagram followers.
[47:45] SPEAKER_06: Yes.
[47:46] SPEAKER_07: That's a that's a subject for another time.
[47:48] SPEAKER_07: Apple, I was really hoping you'd have something in your Ten Commandments to help me out, but you didn't say anything.
[47:53] SPEAKER_07: So uh I wanna I want to bring us to a a new segment because I need some therapy from the lads.
[48:00] SPEAKER_07: So um I've been a little bit down this uh this last two weeks.
[48:09] SPEAKER_03: Ari, just before we get into that, this podcast is not for this kind of thing historically.
[48:14] SPEAKER_03: Usually we just take the piss out of each other for 60 minutes and then everyone thinks we we secretly hate each other.
[48:20] SPEAKER_03: So I just wanted to preface this with some audio I've brought to the show.
[48:24] SPEAKER_00: This is a safe place.
[48:25] SPEAKER_00: A place where we can feel free sharing our feelings.
[48:29] SPEAKER_00: Think of my office as a nest and a tree of trust and understanding.
[48:34] SPEAKER_00: We can say anything here.
[48:36] SPEAKER_03: So Ari.
[48:37] SPEAKER_03: Tell us what's been going on.
[48:39] SPEAKER_07: I'm I'm injured and I'm not excited to train.
[48:42] SPEAKER_07: And uh and it feels um I mean, I just I just can't run.
[48:48] SPEAKER_07: I actually I mean I mean I've been running again, but I'm not even like really working out.
[48:52] SPEAKER_07: But then it it bleeds into I wake up every day and even though I've got a swim and a bike to do, and I'm biking a lot, you know, to get get ready for this Iron Man, I just feel like something's off.
[49:06] SPEAKER_07: And I'm not excited to go out and smash a five-hour ride or whatever it is.
[49:10] SPEAKER_07: And then and then I feel guilty.
[49:12] SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, oh, do I even do I even like doing this?
[49:15] SPEAKER_07: Am I cut out for this?
[49:16] SPEAKER_07: And then and then like yeah, like I said, I just it takes a mental toll more than anything.
[49:21] SPEAKER_07: And yeah, I just uh I want some perspective here.
[49:25] SPEAKER_07: Well, wise old Apo, how about you go first?
[49:27] SPEAKER_05: I have some thoughts.
[49:29] SPEAKER_06: It's difficult.
[49:30] SPEAKER_06: I mean, it is easy to get derailed, and you know, Trithlon training is like a house of cards.
[49:39] SPEAKER_06: And once one thing falls, everything comes tumbling down, right?
[49:43] SPEAKER_06: So you need to slowly ever so slowly build up that house of cards again.
[49:48] SPEAKER_06: One card at a time, you know, start with start with the ace of spades, then move on to the king of hearts, and then find it in your own heart.
[50:03] SPEAKER_06: That was going really good, and then I've got nothing left.
[50:06] SPEAKER_07: I feel so amazing now.
[50:08] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I was just I'm better.
[50:09] SPEAKER_07: I you don't even need to say anything, Justin.
[50:11] SPEAKER_07: I'm better.
[50:11] SPEAKER_03: No, injury's hard, right?
[50:12] SPEAKER_03: And it's it's something that every single person who's done endurance sport, particularly when it involves running, has been through.
[50:18] SPEAKER_03: So every triathlete in the world has gone through injury, and it is hard mentally.
[50:22] SPEAKER_03: Ari, I think that when you are injured, you need to zoom out and you need to keep perspective in your life and your training.
[50:28] SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna help you zoom out a little bit here.
[50:30] SPEAKER_03: You missed five days of running.
[50:32] SPEAKER_03: This wasn't a five-week injury, this wasn't a five-month injury.
[50:35] SPEAKER_03: You missed five days of running.
[50:37] SPEAKER_03: You're already back to running about 30 minutes a day.
[50:39] SPEAKER_03: Your pain level's never been that high.
[50:41] SPEAKER_03: You're you're you're operating at about a two, three, four out of ten pain level.
[50:45] SPEAKER_03: And one time it hit a five.
[50:46] SPEAKER_03: One time it hit a five.
[50:47] SPEAKER_03: You don't have a stress reaction, you don't have a stress fracture.
[50:50] SPEAKER_03: You have a little bit of an angry inflamed tendon in your in your glute or your or your hip as you describe it.
[50:55] SPEAKER_03: Everything's good.
[50:56] SPEAKER_03: You just need to zoom out.
[50:57] SPEAKER_03: You've done five months of great training this year, you don't lose that.
[51:01] SPEAKER_03: Before that, last year, you did lots of good training as well, and you missed five days.
[51:05] SPEAKER_03: And it's so easy to catastrophize everything in a very short period of time that doesn't actually mean anything.
[51:12] SPEAKER_03: Missing four or five days of running, it's no big deal.
[51:15] SPEAKER_03: It's you're not going to lose any fitness, you're not gonna be a worse runner in six weeks' time.
[51:19] SPEAKER_03: All you can do is control what you can control.
[51:22] SPEAKER_03: Do everything you can on that day to become a better version of yourself, a better triathlete.
[51:27] SPEAKER_03: And before you know it, you'll be back to running full time, you'll pref you'll have completely forgotten that this injury even existed.
[51:34] SPEAKER_03: And those five days of running that you missed won't have meant anything.
[51:38] SPEAKER_03: So the big challenge is controlling your brain, which is catastrophizing everything for no reason.
[51:43] SPEAKER_03: Zoom out, talk to yourself like you would if it was someone else in your life and you saw them going through what you are.
[51:49] SPEAKER_03: Use your logic.
[51:50] SPEAKER_03: Don't be controlled by the emotional roller coaster that is triathlon.
[51:54] SPEAKER_05: I'd hire you as a coach.
[51:56] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well said, Jack.
[51:58] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think catastrophizing is is the right word here.
[52:02] SPEAKER_05: Ari, you're not seriously injured.
[52:04] SPEAKER_05: That's the headline here.
[52:06] SPEAKER_05: Like, I think if you have a stress fracture and you're on crutches for the next six weeks and your season is shot, it's a different conversation.
[52:12] SPEAKER_05: I've been there and it's a really, really tough place to be.
[52:14] SPEAKER_05: And then you have to kind of start diverting attention away from training to actually focus on recovery.
[52:19] SPEAKER_05: But here's the great news: you have decades of running experience, and the work you need to become world-class is on the swim and the bike.
[52:29] SPEAKER_05: I don't think there's debate there.
[52:31] SPEAKER_05: And in my running injuries, even prolonged periods where I haven't run, I came out the other side at a higher fitness level and a higher competitive level, being able to actually swim front pack every time or almost every time and be stronger on the bike.
[52:46] SPEAKER_05: And if you can do those things coming off this injury, if it which sounds like you're already on the other side of it almost, you're gonna find yourself a better triathlete.
[52:56] SPEAKER_05: You're not you're not a a pure runner anymore.
[52:58] SPEAKER_05: So if you deprioritize one discipline, the beautiful thing about most of these triathon injuries is you basically just channel all of that energy into the swim and the bike.
[53:08] SPEAKER_07: Um so that's uh that's great perspective, boys.
[53:12] SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
[53:12] SPEAKER_07: Um and I actually do feel a lot better, but I feel like it would have been a lot better if you guys had all just been really mean and said, shut up, pussy, you're not even injured.
[53:25] SPEAKER_07: This is a safe dice.
[53:27] SPEAKER_03: Didn't you hear the thing about the tree that I played?
[53:30] SPEAKER_07: It was better when you were kind of mean about it, and you're like, you're not even injured.
[53:33] SPEAKER_07: What are you talking about?
[53:35] SPEAKER_07: That's that's probably what I would have been most responsive to.
[53:37] SPEAKER_07: But thank you, thank you, guys.
[53:38] SPEAKER_07: Um, it was really helpful, and uh, and I feel great now.
[53:41] SPEAKER_07: And I'm excited to um yeah, I'm not even injured.
[53:45] SPEAKER_07: I don't know what I why I called that segment.
[53:47] SPEAKER_07: Let's move on to inspirational quotes.
[53:49] SPEAKER_07: I was gonna say, get a job.
[53:50] SPEAKER_05: Like if you get a job, Ari will have something else to channel your you know, your passion into and you're not feeling it.
[53:56] SPEAKER_05: Oh, you were serious.
[53:56] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
[53:57] SPEAKER_05: Just get a full-time job.
[53:59] SPEAKER_03: And like I've I talked about this last week.
[54:03] SPEAKER_03: Listening to your coach is important.
[54:05] SPEAKER_03: And I have insight into Ari's coach and and what was said on the program.
[54:09] SPEAKER_03: So Ari did Iron Man 70.3 Chattanooga, where Apo beat him.
[54:14] SPEAKER_03: Apo outran him.
[54:15] SPEAKER_06: So took away my biggest weapon against Ari and still beat him.
[54:22] SPEAKER_07: You took away Sam Long's wheel from me.
[54:24] SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, Apo drafted that whole day.
[54:27] SPEAKER_03: Um, that was an unfair race, of course.
[54:29] SPEAKER_03: Um, you would never lose to him in a fair head-to-head battle, Ari.
[54:32] SPEAKER_07: Um well, he had Justin's wheel on Oceanside too.
[54:37] SPEAKER_07: So serial cheating.
[54:38] SPEAKER_07: That is true.
[54:39] SPEAKER_07: No, Justin dropped me.
[54:42] SPEAKER_03: But here's my point.
[54:43] SPEAKER_03: After Chattanooga, I know your coach told me that you were supposed to take a week off running and they wanted you to take a week off running, and you said, No, I can't.
[54:51] SPEAKER_03: I can't not run for that period of time.
[54:54] SPEAKER_03: You wanted to start running straight away.
[54:56] SPEAKER_03: And so I know that you met in the middle with a bit of a compromise coming back to running sooner than your coach wanted you to.
[55:02] SPEAKER_03: And the reason your coach wanted you to have that little bit of a break is because you'd been doing a lot of mileage.
[55:07] SPEAKER_03: He felt like your load was a little bit too high and that you needed a break.
[55:11] SPEAKER_03: And he could see that if you didn't take that break, that a little bit of an overuse injury was probably not too far away.
[55:17] SPEAKER_07: Oh, I don't like how this is.
[55:19] SPEAKER_07: I don't like how you and my coach have been communicating.
[55:21] SPEAKER_07: I did take the whole break.
[55:22] SPEAKER_03: Oh, you came back after four days.
[55:25] SPEAKER_03: Four days that was the compromise, and then you got injured literally the next week.
[55:31] SPEAKER_07: Day three.
[55:32] SPEAKER_03: So, what's the lesson here?
[55:33] SPEAKER_03: The lesson here is listen to your coach.
[55:35] SPEAKER_03: Don't always be in the mindset of more, more, more, which goes back to one of Appleton's ten commandments.
[55:41] SPEAKER_03: You don't have to be stressed about what you're seeing, all this high mileage that everyone's doing.
[55:45] SPEAKER_03: It's not always the answer.
[55:47] SPEAKER_03: Sometimes less is more, sometimes taking rest is good.
[55:50] SPEAKER_03: And we're not supposed to take advice from Lionel Sanders YouTube, like um wise man Sam Appleton said, but he's done that this year, and it seems to be working for him.
[55:59] SPEAKER_03: And I feel like you could have learned from that and maybe have made the mistake there, Ari, of being too keen to do too much all the time, and sometimes just stepping back and having a break is good.
[56:08] SPEAKER_07: You want to know what's hilarious?
[56:10] SPEAKER_07: Is um Lionel and I basically had the same injury at the same time two years in a row.
[56:16] SPEAKER_07: Both injured our ribs last year, and uh this year we both got like strained or pulled glutes or something.
[56:21] SPEAKER_07: We were texting about it.
[56:22] SPEAKER_07: We're inexplicably cursed.
[56:24] SPEAKER_07: Is Lionel injured now?
[56:27] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, he's got his like his uh glute.
[56:29] SPEAKER_07: That's why he didn't race press.
[56:32] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I didn't know this.
[56:32] SPEAKER_07: This is the scoop.
[56:33] SPEAKER_07: No, it's not.
[56:34] SPEAKER_07: It was on uh it was on YouTube.
[56:36] SPEAKER_07: Uh okay.
[56:37] SPEAKER_07: It was in his most recent video.
[56:38] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
[56:39] SPEAKER_03: Was it well?
[56:39] SPEAKER_03: I didn't watch it.
[56:40] SPEAKER_03: Um I got I gotta go watch that.
[56:41] SPEAKER_03: So he's got he's injured.
[56:42] SPEAKER_03: He's not running.
[56:44] SPEAKER_07: I think he's like bat uh on the way back already.
[56:46] SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
[56:47] SPEAKER_07: I should figure out if I'm allowed to say that.
[56:49] SPEAKER_07: I'm pretty sure he said that in his YouTube video.
[56:50] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if he didn't, it's an exclusive here, so who cares?
[56:53] SPEAKER_03: Boys, uh, we all thought that to finish the show we would bring one inspirational triathlon-related quote that might help you this week.
[57:01] SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm gonna start us off.
[57:04] SPEAKER_03: In racing, you don't rise to your talent level, you lower to the level of your processes.
[57:10] SPEAKER_03: So, what that means is that you're you might see yourself as talented, you might see someone else as talented.
[57:17] SPEAKER_03: That is not going to help you in racing.
[57:20] SPEAKER_03: All that matters come race day is the work you've done going into the race and everything you've done to prepare for that race.
[57:26] SPEAKER_03: Because that's the level that you will fall to.
[57:29] SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna suddenly and miraculously be this, you know, a hundred percent better version of you in in a race than you have been in training.
[57:37] SPEAKER_03: So it's very important day in, day out in training, that you do all the right things.
[57:42] SPEAKER_03: Try your best to be as professional as you can so that come race day, you're just gonna fall back to that level.
[57:48] SPEAKER_03: You're gonna do exactly what you do most of the days for the sum of your training days.
[57:53] SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna, you're not gonna just miraculously discover this level that you've never been to in training, come racing.
[57:58] SPEAKER_03: So don't expect that to happen.
[58:00] SPEAKER_03: No matter how talented you think you are, no matter how much you think you can just get away with doing things the wrong way throughout your your training process into the race.
[58:09] SPEAKER_03: In racing, you don't rise to your talent level, you lower to the level of your processes.
[58:13] SPEAKER_05: Alright, my quote.
[58:16] SPEAKER_05: Look, if you had one shot, one opportunity, and this is everything that you ever wanted, one moment, would you capture it or just let it slip?
[58:27] SPEAKER_05: Palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy.
[58:30] SPEAKER_03: There's vomit on his sweat already.
[58:32] SPEAKER_03: Mom spaghetti.
[58:32] SPEAKER_03: Mom spaghetti.
[58:33] SPEAKER_03: He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready to drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting what he wrote down.
[58:38] SPEAKER_03: The whole crowd goes so loud, he opens his mouth, but the words won't come out.
[58:42] SPEAKER_03: He's choking now.
[58:44] SPEAKER_05: Oh, Jack's really getting we got Marshall Maths in the house.
[58:48] SPEAKER_05: Alright, that quote is by uh Slim Shady, the great Eminem.
[58:52] SPEAKER_05: And I'm half joking, but I have this quote on my wall in my trainer room, and it's of course you hear right next to your reflection in the mirror.
[59:01] SPEAKER_05: Well, like it's one of those things because so many moments in training, you it's just about simplifying it down to saying yes or no.
[59:08] SPEAKER_05: Should I keep doing this interval?
[59:10] SPEAKER_05: Should I do one more?
[59:11] SPEAKER_05: Should I really hold 330 watts instead of 300 today?
[59:14] SPEAKER_05: And being a pro triathlete or being world champ is not everything I ever wanted, but we all do only get one shot at this thing, whether it's one race or one pro, you know, one attempt at a successful pro career.
[59:27] SPEAKER_05: And so I like to remind myself like it's it's like today or never, you know, on some of those decisions.
[59:33] SPEAKER_05: And so it's one of the more motivating quotes for me.
[59:35] SPEAKER_05: And like being hard AF in this sport actually takes you pretty far, just being the guy that can persevere, push through pain, push through the tough moments when you're questioning it.
[59:46] SPEAKER_07: If you really thought that, you would just quit your job.
[59:49] SPEAKER_07: Anyway, my quote uh no, that was uh uh very inspirational, Justin, and and very true.
[59:56] SPEAKER_07: Um I live by that because I did have a job and I quit it to chase this one opportunity.
[1:00:03] SPEAKER_07: My quote is here's the thing about will and can.
[1:00:10] SPEAKER_07: If you won't, then you can't.
[1:00:13] SPEAKER_07: But if you can, then you will.
[1:00:16] SPEAKER_07: And uh this was just in response.
[1:00:17] SPEAKER_07: I think Jack and I were talking about him like running a 10K or a half marathon at a certain time, and he said, Can I?
[1:00:23] SPEAKER_07: Sure.
[1:00:24] SPEAKER_07: Will I?
[1:00:24] SPEAKER_07: Probably not.
[1:00:25] SPEAKER_07: And then I I hit him back with that because I wholeheartedly believe that.
[1:00:29] SPEAKER_07: If you can do something, you will do it.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_07: And if you won't do it, you're like, ah, I can, but I won't.
[1:00:36] SPEAKER_07: It's because you can't do it.
[1:00:39] SPEAKER_03: That's deep.
[1:00:40] SPEAKER_03: Basically, all you're saying is that it's just a it's just a quote that means stop making up excuses, go and do the thing, or shut up.
[1:00:47] SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
[1:00:47] SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
[1:00:49] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's the TLDR of that uh quote, Ari.
[1:00:55] SPEAKER_06: That's the explain it like I'm five.
[1:00:58] SPEAKER_06: Um not Buddhist Ari version, but spiritual Mark Allen.
[1:01:03] SPEAKER_06: Alright, here's some more wisdom.
[1:01:06] SPEAKER_06: It's hard to beat somebody who never gives up.
[1:01:09] SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love it.
[1:01:10] SPEAKER_03: It's not the size of the dog in the fight, size of the fight in the dog.
[1:01:14] SPEAKER_07: I mean, I mean, what if they suck though?
[1:01:17] SPEAKER_07: And you never give up.
[1:01:20] SPEAKER_07: No, I love that.
[1:01:21] SPEAKER_07: It's it's true.
[1:01:22] SPEAKER_07: Is it true?
[1:01:23] SPEAKER_07: It's true.
[1:01:23] SPEAKER_07: Eventually you just go, you'd just be the last person to give up.
[1:01:27] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[1:01:27] SPEAKER_03: Is that true in triathlon?
[1:01:29] SPEAKER_07: No, well, because there's so many, there's literally like 200 guys who all won't give up.
[1:01:36] SPEAKER_07: So it's tough.
[1:01:37] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and that and they're really hard to beat because they won't fucking give up.
[1:01:41] SPEAKER_06: True.
[1:01:41] SPEAKER_03: I think if you extrapolate it, uh, it's actually brilliant, Apo.
[1:01:45] SPEAKER_03: Because it's not necessarily just talking about a race, is it?
[1:01:47] SPEAKER_03: It's like because everyone's racing is hard to do.
[1:01:50] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[1:01:50] SPEAKER_03: And and it's and it's even just like 10 years of training is impossible to catch up to, or 20 years, like that person who just hasn't given given up and just shown up every single day, day in, day out, gets out there and trains, even if they feel like they're not getting anywhere, eventually they're gonna get to the point where they're they're so much better than the people who haven't been out there doing that.
[1:02:12] SPEAKER_03: Like, say if you're it goes back to my my you're not gonna rise to your talent level thing.
[1:02:16] SPEAKER_03: It's the exact same, isn't it?
[1:02:17] SPEAKER_03: Like the person who doesn't show up day in, day out is always gonna get beaten by the person who does show up day in, day out eventually.
[1:02:24] SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you put all four of these quotes to use, you will be a great triathlete, guaranteed.
[1:02:29] SPEAKER_03: Mom spaghetti.
[1:02:32] SPEAKER_07: Especially bad.
[1:02:33] SPEAKER_07: Carbolo load, carbo load.
[1:02:35] SPEAKER_03: Hey Justin, um you're not allowed to say no to this.
[1:02:39] SPEAKER_03: Apo, you might not know this.
[1:02:40] SPEAKER_03: In fact, a lot of people listening may still not know this, but if they don't, then go back and listen to Justin Riale's episode of The Triton Now.
[1:02:47] SPEAKER_03: Justin was a pseudo-professional singer and uh and sang to Obama.
[1:02:53] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he he did.
[1:02:54] SPEAKER_03: Uh Justin put on a private singing performance for Barack Obama, Apo.
[1:02:58] SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure if you knew this.
[1:02:59] SPEAKER_03: So, Justin, do you know the lyrics of Lose Yourself by Eminem?
[1:03:03] SPEAKER_05: Of course.
[1:03:04] SPEAKER_05: Who?
[1:03:04] SPEAKER_05: I mean, yeah, it's probably my most listened to song in my life.
[1:03:08] SPEAKER_03: Okay, so if you don't, take time to Google them now and I'll pad while you quickly Google them and look them up.
[1:03:14] SPEAKER_03: And to finish the show, to close the show, this is Justin Reale rapping Lose Yourself by Eminem.
[1:03:21] SPEAKER_07: Wait, can you do it like Frank Sinatra?
[1:03:24] SPEAKER_07: You know, like how people do like AI, like make Frank Sinatra sing Lose Yourself by Eminem.
[1:03:29] SPEAKER_07: Do do that to close the show.
[1:03:31] SPEAKER_03: Justin, let's go.
[1:03:32] SPEAKER_05: His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy, there's vomit on his sweater already.
[1:03:37] SPEAKER_05: Mom's forgetty, he's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready to drop bombs.
[1:03:44] SPEAKER_05: What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes to loud, he opens his mouth, but the words won't come out.
[1:03:50] SPEAKER_08: He's joking now.
[1:03:55] SPEAKER_08: You better never let it go.
[1:03:57] SPEAKER_08: You've only got one shot.
[1:03:59] SPEAKER_08: Do not detect the boat.
[1:04:01] SPEAKER_08: This opportunity comes once in a lifetime.
[1:04:04] SPEAKER_08: Give it up, give it away.
[1:04:08] SPEAKER_08: Alright.
[1:04:09] SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
[1:04:11] SPEAKER_06: Let's get some soul and RB and jazz in that, Ari.
[1:04:15] SPEAKER_06: Uh we should uh we should collab, Justin.
[1:04:19] SPEAKER_05: For sure.
[1:04:19] SPEAKER_05: We've been chewed up, spit up, booed off stage.
[1:04:22] SPEAKER_05: Time to show up on the next start line.
[1:04:24] SPEAKER_05: Be ready to go.
[1:04:26] SPEAKER_03: Ari, Justin, Apo, thank you so much for joining us.
[1:04:29] SPEAKER_03: Let's do it all again next week.
[1:04:30] SPEAKER_03: Except Apo, you'll probably be re replaced with Greg, even though you did bring a lot more than Greg usually does.
[1:04:35] SPEAKER_06: Bloody eye.
[1:04:35] SPEAKER_06: I'm fired.
[1:04:36] SPEAKER_06: One and done.
[1:04:38] SPEAKER_06: Thanks, Matt.
[1:04:39] SPEAKER_06: Thanks, Jack.
[1:04:46] SPEAKER_01: You only get one shot.
[1:04:47] SPEAKER_01: Do not miss your chance to blow.
[1:04:49] SPEAKER_01: It's not a tool to be close once in a lifetime.

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