# Road To Ironman 70.3 Oceanside - Episode 3

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 21 Jan 2026, 1 h 14 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19697997-road-to-ironman-70-3-oceanside-episode-3.mp3

Jackson starts the show with a shocking & disturbing revelation before Ari & Justin gets involved to start talking about their training weeks. The three boys were all on different training camps this week - Justin undertook Tadej Pogacar levels of bike training, Ari continues his rise as the Zone 2 King and Jackson does even more VO2 Max. Plenty of insightful training talk and banter yet again this week.

## Transcript

[0:16] SPEAKER_02: Week three of the road to oceanside is here.
[0:19] SPEAKER_02: Welcome back, pretenders.
[0:21] SPEAKER_02: We are on Tuesday, January 20th, and triathlon content is booming again.
[0:26] SPEAKER_02: We got podcasts all over the place.
[0:28] SPEAKER_02: If you're like me, you've been back on Lionel's YouTube channel and you're starting to count on the weeks and the days.
[0:32] SPEAKER_02: We're on week three.
[0:33] SPEAKER_02: How many days do we have till Oceanside, Ari?
[0:36] SPEAKER_01: 69 is what I've uh calculated.
[0:38] SPEAKER_02: Jackson?
[0:39] SPEAKER_02: What's up?
[0:40] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, probably 69, that sounds right.
[0:42] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[0:43] SPEAKER_02: I actually have no idea, but sounds about right.
[0:45] SPEAKER_02: We're still 10 weeks out.
[0:46] SPEAKER_02: We're still far enough to not know exactly how many days out it is, but yeah, 10 times 7, pretty close.
[0:50] SPEAKER_02: Maybe it is 69.
[0:52] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, burning for oceanside.
[0:54] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're burning for oceanside.
[0:56] SPEAKER_02: You know, this week we got a lot of interesting stuff to dive into with our training.
[1:00] SPEAKER_02: I decided to leave my life behind and ride my bike along Highway One down to Big Surin back and set a new FTP trying to chase Ari.
[1:08] SPEAKER_02: Jackson took on the heat and wind of Real Tri-Squad's Cosmel camp on a gravel bike, and Ari took a swim lesson.
[1:16] SPEAKER_02: Two swim lessons, actually.
[1:17] SPEAKER_02: Two swim lessons.
[1:19] SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna dive into how that all went.
[1:22] SPEAKER_02: But first, Jackson, I'll let you kick it off this week.
[1:25] SPEAKER_00: So I hinted for all you pretenders out there that have a bit of a hot take at the end of last week's episode.
[1:30] SPEAKER_00: We ended up running out of time for that, and I wouldn't call this a hot take so much as a public service announcement.
[1:36] SPEAKER_00: I'm concerned for all of you pretenders' safety.
[1:40] SPEAKER_00: I believe that our very own Jack Kelly may be on his way to or already be a cult leader.
[1:48] SPEAKER_00: Now, hear me out.
[1:50] SPEAKER_00: Jack Kelly started his podcast as a nobody.
[1:53] SPEAKER_00: Nobody knew who he was, and he knew that.
[1:55] SPEAKER_00: But he wanted power over the traites in the long course world.
[2:00] SPEAKER_00: So what did he do?
[2:01] SPEAKER_00: He spent years building up his reputation, interviewing other people, gaining knowledge, gaining trust, and now all of a sudden he's a trathlon coach, and people are looking to him for advice.
[2:12] SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't really want to, you know, claim that this is happening already, but it's it there are some bad signs.
[2:21] SPEAKER_00: So I've done some research, of course.
[2:23] SPEAKER_00: Leader traits of a cult leader.
[2:26] SPEAKER_00: Charismatic individuals attempting to form cults position themselves as infallible authorities with exclusive access to truth.
[2:33] SPEAKER_00: How often does Jack Kelly talk about truth, guys?
[2:36] SPEAKER_00: They demand unquestioned loyalty, discourage criticism, and claim to be above accountability.
[2:40] SPEAKER_00: Maybe not that one so much, but we could push him into that direction.
[2:43] SPEAKER_00: Now, this is one thing that I'm really concerned about, guys.
[2:46] SPEAKER_00: Recruitment tactics.
[2:48] SPEAKER_00: Perspective cults leaders start using love bombing to shower recruits with excess affection and promises of community to build rapid devotion.
[2:59] SPEAKER_00: What has he done with Vicky Holland on the podcast, guys?
[3:02] SPEAKER_00: Every episode at the opening of the episode.
[3:05] SPEAKER_00: Not only that, but they target vulnerable people like those in transitions, right?
[3:09] SPEAKER_00: We see Greg Harper just had a kid.
[3:11] SPEAKER_00: That's a transition stage.
[3:13] SPEAKER_00: We see people, they target people in life transitions or seeking purpose.
[3:18] SPEAKER_00: Maybe Ari Klau could be an argument for that.
[3:21] SPEAKER_00: And they isolate themselves from outside influences.
[3:24] SPEAKER_00: I don't know, guys.
[3:25] SPEAKER_00: Be careful out there.
[3:26] SPEAKER_00: If he starts suggesting you move to Australia to train with him exclusively, might be time to run.
[3:33] SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, he he already suggested that.
[3:35] SPEAKER_01: I can confirm it's not a cult, it's a religion, okay?
[3:38] SPEAKER_01: And you wouldn't get it.
[3:40] SPEAKER_01: And I don't appreciate these negative things that you're saying about my God, my fearless leader, who's never been wrong in his life.
[3:48] SPEAKER_01: And these are these are dangerous things that you're talking about, Jackson, and I would tread lightly if I were you.
[3:54] SPEAKER_00: Justin, I think he's too far gone.
[3:56] SPEAKER_00: I think he's too far gone.
[3:57] SPEAKER_00: But the rest of you can be safe.
[3:59] SPEAKER_00: I I think he is too.
[4:01] unknown: I think he is too.
[4:03] SPEAKER_02: Like every cult leader, there's some good things about you know their belief system.
[4:07] SPEAKER_02: They're passionate, they're enthusiastic about run training, specifically shoe choice, how to approach your volume, avoiding stress reactions.
[4:15] SPEAKER_02: But you know, some of these training sessions, the cult of Jack Kelly, we'll we'll get into it with Ari and Greg.
[4:22] SPEAKER_02: We'll see.
[4:22] SPEAKER_02: Maybe they'll be kicking our ass this year, Jackson.
[4:24] SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should be worried about being on the outside of this.
[4:28] SPEAKER_00: I mean I don't know.
[4:29] SPEAKER_00: I think they should be careful and they should probably ditch Jack Kelly as our coach right now, and we can go back to beating them easily in races.
[4:36] SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, hear me out though.
[4:37] SPEAKER_00: Hear me out though.
[4:38] SPEAKER_01: Like, what if you join a cult and you basically get like superpowers?
[4:45] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good point.
[4:46] SPEAKER_00: Like, would you do it?
[4:48] SPEAKER_01: Is it worth it?
[4:49] SPEAKER_01: Does you know, is it is it are you say cult is such a negative connotation, you know.
[4:55] SPEAKER_00: That's true.
[4:55] SPEAKER_00: Maybe we need to be accepting of cult.
[4:57] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[4:58] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[4:59] SPEAKER_02: I mean Jackson jumped right into the Norwegian one right up in the mountains in the Sierra Nevada for three weeks.
[5:05] SPEAKER_02: Straight.
[5:06] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a cult.
[5:07] SPEAKER_01: The Norwegian method's a cult for sure.
[5:09] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[5:09] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
[5:10] SPEAKER_00: And it's true.
[5:10] SPEAKER_00: I would have, if you said you're you're getting sucked into a cult, I need to pull you out, I would have been like, no, sir, this is the cult for me.
[5:16] SPEAKER_00: This is working.
[5:17] SPEAKER_00: So, in any case, be careful out there, pretenders.
[5:20] SPEAKER_00: Don't let him invite you to Australia to join his training camp.
[5:23] SPEAKER_00: Just don't do it.
[5:24] SPEAKER_00: That's where we'll never hear from you again.
[5:26] SPEAKER_01: Hey, pretenders, can't wait to see you all in Australia.
[5:29] SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to it, to our Australian uh training camp till the end of time.
[5:34] SPEAKER_01: See you out there.
[5:35] SPEAKER_02: And with that, Jackson, kick us off with your bike session of the week.
[5:38] SPEAKER_02: What did you do this week?
[5:39] SPEAKER_00: All right, well, as you all know, I went to Cosmel to do a training camp.
[5:44] SPEAKER_00: It was a great time.
[5:45] SPEAKER_00: I also, spoiler alert, have the highest training volume of the week.
[5:49] SPEAKER_00: So uh get the get the dub on that one.
[5:51] SPEAKER_00: But the I did ride a gravel bike the whole time.
[5:55] SPEAKER_00: Now, this was partly strategic, partly laziness, I guess, because my road bike, the rear derailleur wasn't working, didn't have time to troubleshoot it.
[6:03] SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, hey dad, can I borrow your gravel bike?
[6:05] SPEAKER_00: And then I had to kind of keep that effort up a little bit just because I still rode at the front most of the time.
[6:11] SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[6:12] SPEAKER_02: Slow down, slow down.
[6:14] SPEAKER_02: Nick Chase and Mark Dubrick let you ride at the front on a gravel bike.
[6:18] SPEAKER_00: So, Nick, so we usually did two ride, two abreast, and it was Nick pretty much was at the front all the time.
[6:24] SPEAKER_00: Mark sometimes did his own stuff, but on some of the workouts, like one of the sets, uh, maybe I'll just switch my workout to this set.
[6:32] SPEAKER_00: It was five by six minutes.
[6:35] SPEAKER_00: It was about a wasn't a very long ride, it was about a three-hour ride, but the set was five times four minutes on with two minutes recovery.
[6:42] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, long enough.
[6:44] SPEAKER_00: And Mark actually went to the front for three of those five reps, and I was at the front for two of the five reps beside Nick.
[6:51] SPEAKER_00: And so when I was in the group, I was riding at like the target effort of it was supposed to be like a little under threshold, so it was like 70.3 pace, but then when I was on the front, it was a lot harder.
[7:02] SPEAKER_00: So the third and the fifth rep were the ones where I was at the front, and I was doing I think above threshold for this the third one, and then the fifth one was like max pretty much effort.
[7:15] SPEAKER_01: Can we back up for a second here?
[7:17] SPEAKER_01: Can we back up for a second?
[7:18] SPEAKER_01: I do want the power on that on that last rep, but successful North American Pro Oceanside course record holder borrows dad's bike to go to a training camp.
[7:29] SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the state of triathlon right now?
[7:32] SPEAKER_00: It also didn't have um it didn't have power, so I can't tell you.
[7:36] SPEAKER_00: But I did screw that session up.
[7:38] SPEAKER_00: It was actually five times six minutes, not five times four minutes.
[7:41] SPEAKER_00: And uh, so yeah, so this is the thing.
[7:44] SPEAKER_00: This is partly why I wanted to do this because like I feel like everyone thinks you need all the best gear, the best everything to be good at biking, especially because bikes were all expensive gears and all that shit.
[7:59] SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a power meter, the bike didn't fit me.
[8:01] SPEAKER_00: I was fiddling with the seat all week.
[8:03] SPEAKER_00: That was maybe my one regret about it.
[8:05] SPEAKER_00: Totally uncomfortable.
[8:07] SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not even the high-end gravel bike, it's like the one with like the mid-range components that was like three grand or something.
[8:14] SPEAKER_01: This is a Ventum, though, that you gave to your dad.
[8:16] SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's the GS1, but just not like the high-end build.
[8:19] SPEAKER_00: No, my dad bought it.
[8:20] SPEAKER_00: Oh, what the fuck?
[8:21] SPEAKER_00: I sold a bike to my dad.
[8:23] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when's the last time you gave your bike to your dad?
[8:25] SPEAKER_02: No, no, he bought it from Ventum.
[8:27] SPEAKER_01: If I had a bike sponsor and I was the Oceanside course record holder, you bet I'm giving a bike to my dad.
[8:34] SPEAKER_01: What?
[8:35] SPEAKER_00: I didn't I didn't sell it to him, he bought it from Ventum.
[8:37] SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't know.
[8:38] SPEAKER_01: In any case, uh whatever.
[8:40] SPEAKER_00: I don't have power, but I know that on the last rep, Nick allegedly he said his last three minutes was over 400, and I was having to ride beside him, which it had to be at least 50 watts.
[8:55] SPEAKER_00: Like I just by feel from at the lower powers when I asked him what his power was, like I had to do 30-40 watts higher, guessing at like lower power, so at higher it must have been 50-60.
[9:05] SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I'm I'm I'm just gonna go out there and say reps one, two, and four were like 330 to 340.
[9:13] SPEAKER_00: Or 330 to 350.
[9:14] SPEAKER_00: Rep three, where I was at the front, was probably 370 to 380, and rep five where I was at the front had to be well over 400.
[9:22] SPEAKER_00: It was it was six minutes max, like it was all I could do to uh to hang in there.
[9:27] SPEAKER_00: Solid.
[9:27] SPEAKER_00: That was the theme of the week.
[9:29] SPEAKER_00: Survive at the front as long as I could, and then jump in the group when I had to.
[9:32] SPEAKER_00: How big was this group?
[9:33] SPEAKER_00: So you're obviously it's a team camp.
[9:35] SPEAKER_00: So we had 23 or something total.
[9:40] SPEAKER_00: Um, but obviously each ride, like there's a there's a range of abilities.
[9:44] SPEAKER_00: The the number of people who were hanging like with the front the most of the time was probably like 10 to 14 people.
[9:49] SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
[9:50] SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so it was good.
[9:52] SPEAKER_00: It was like I said, Nick was on the front pretty much the whole time.
[9:56] SPEAKER_00: I did a lot of it at the front, all the easy and half-ish of the intervals, and then yeah, people hanging sticking in the group, and we're like we're moving on those intervals like 40 plus K an hour.
[10:08] SPEAKER_00: So lots of strong athletes.
[10:10] SPEAKER_00: But the big success of this camp was zero crashes this year.
[10:13] SPEAKER_00: Great success.
[10:13] SPEAKER_00: Nobody went down once.
[10:15] SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty big win with a camp with like 25 people for a week, especially with those Cosmelo wins.
[10:20] SPEAKER_02: Maybe you'll be uh will we see you at Iron Man Cosmelo or 70.3 Cosmel now that you got a little taste of the Mexican island?
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: Never.
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: I've done that race and I've been like, this is not a thing I ever want to do.
[10:30] SPEAKER_00: It's just like running in a sauna and it's just not fun.
[10:33] SPEAKER_00: I love it.
[10:33] SPEAKER_01: Justin just goes there to try to cherry pick podiums.
[10:36] SPEAKER_02: Hey, I got my third and my second.
[10:37] SPEAKER_02: I'm cherry picking a win this year, baby.
[10:40] SPEAKER_02: I'm sure Tomas will be back.
[10:42] SPEAKER_02: Oh maybe I will go to give you a high five.
[10:44] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, we'll see.
[10:46] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, inside joke, there's there's video out there of Justin giving Tomás Rodriguez a high five.
[10:52] SPEAKER_01: Did he hand him something?
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: Was it like uh, you know, handing something over a high five?
[10:57] SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
[10:57] SPEAKER_01: It's hard to tell in the video, but you know, you guys should uh scope it out and see for yourself.
[11:02] SPEAKER_01: Not suggesting anything.
[11:04] SPEAKER_01: Jack Kelly would know.
[11:05] SPEAKER_00: This would have been before Justin knew what uh what he was up to.
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: So I imagine there won't be any high fives this year.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: No, he knew.
[11:13] SPEAKER_01: He knew it was like five months ago.
[11:15] SPEAKER_02: Five months ago.
[11:16] SPEAKER_02: There's no swim uh swim misconduct in Cosmella.
[11:20] SPEAKER_02: I don't think there'll be refs patrolling that.
[11:22] SPEAKER_02: So we'll see how that swim goes if he's back on the start line.
[11:26] SPEAKER_02: Alright, dunking.
[11:27] SPEAKER_02: True.
[11:28] SPEAKER_02: Alright, Ari, tell us about your bike session.
[11:30] SPEAKER_01: So my bike session, uh continuing on the theme of addressing my weakness of durability and muscular endurance.
[11:39] SPEAKER_01: This past Sunday was a reverse brick.
[11:43] SPEAKER_01: So I started the morning with a it was another 20-mile long run.
[11:48] SPEAKER_01: It was uh 12-ish miles, like steady running, and then a uh progressive like threshold 10k sort of thing, and then a short cooldown, and then it wasn't like a true brick.
[12:02] SPEAKER_01: I had a bit of food, and then I got on the trainer for four hours.
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: And some of you guys may have listened to the most recent triathlon hour where I got grilled by my fearless leader, Jack Kelly.
[12:16] SPEAKER_00: You got absolutely torn apart.
[12:18] SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's the thing.
[12:20] SPEAKER_00: He knows he knows for you that you need to be torn apart, and for Vicky, she needs to be well, he tears her apart too, but still.
[12:28] SPEAKER_01: I was it was it was embellished.
[12:29] SPEAKER_01: It was like there was one session where I said I didn't do any of it in the TT position.
[12:34] SPEAKER_01: It wasn't and but the to be fair, and that was last season.
[12:37] SPEAKER_01: This year I've I've really been struggling to like do decent power and hold TT position.
[12:45] SPEAKER_01: And uh so I was working on that this week, and honestly, you know, I I did proclaim myself as the zone two king.
[12:53] SPEAKER_01: We're doing a lot of zone two more for the muscles than the metabolism, just because it gets very hard muscularly, especially after that long run.
[13:00] SPEAKER_01: And I'm here in Texas, so much cement.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: So my legs were kind of smashed, it was really hard.
[13:07] SPEAKER_01: And what I did to uh encourage myself to do as much time in sort of like upper zone two time trialing is you know, I had my nutrition and I had music going, you know, my technomix.
[13:21] SPEAKER_01: And if I got and I had a stopwatch, so I had the stopwatch going if I was time trialing, and then any any like as soon as I wanted to get up and ride the bass bars for a bit, I had to stop the music, I stopped the stopwatch, and I didn't take in any nutrition.
[13:37] SPEAKER_01: So I was like, this is my rule for myself to try to make as much like maximize the uh zone two time in TT.
[13:46] SPEAKER_02: So basically you just didn't count it if you got out of error.
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: Is that the idea?
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: No, no, it counted as ride time, but it was just like no music, no nutrition.
[13:54] SPEAKER_01: So I'm just like, I'll all I can do is sit there and ride.
[13:57] SPEAKER_01: What was the purpose of the stopwatch?
[13:59] SPEAKER_01: To keep track of how much time I was time trialing out of the total time of the ride.
[14:02] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[14:02] SPEAKER_01: To try to get a percentage.
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: So what was it?
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I made it an hour and 54 minutes of the first like two hours something.
[14:11] SPEAKER_01: I was really struggling, had a saddle sore, and then two and a half hours in, I I was pushing like 270, 280.
[14:18] SPEAKER_01: I fucking exploded so hard.
[14:20] SPEAKER_01: I just I I was weak.
[14:24] SPEAKER_01: I was weak.
[14:25] SPEAKER_01: And that's why I chose this ride is because you know I had some other whatever threshold workouts this week that all that all went fine.
[14:31] SPEAKER_01: Um, but this one was just the absolute I felt so exposed.
[14:36] SPEAKER_01: And uh so I finished up, it was like three hours kind of zone two-y, and then an hour quote unquote cooldown at like 230 watts.
[14:44] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the last 30 minutes I broke my own rule of no nutrition, no music if I'm upright, because I just uh I figured I wasn't gonna be able to get back down into the bars after that.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: This is not gonna help you with Jack.
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: What after what he said last week and just used you.
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: He knows I know, but now it's just gonna make it worse.
[15:03] SPEAKER_01: I mean, whatever.
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: You know, whatever.
[15:05] SPEAKER_02: That's a brutal session.
[15:06] SPEAKER_02: You're even in at least you're in the arrow bars.
[15:08] SPEAKER_02: Jackson and I are riding road and gravel bikes out here.
[15:10] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's again, it's my weakness.
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: It's what I and I've definitely been better at time trialing before, uh, when I've been super consistent with it, but I feel like I've I just haven't been super consistent with it.
[15:24] SPEAKER_01: I've been kind of resting on my laurels a little bit of like, oh, I'm on the trainer, it's so much easier outside to time trial, so you know I'll be fine.
[15:32] SPEAKER_01: And I spend so much time on the trainer that if I spend too much time upright, it it doesn't get that it doesn't feel that easy to time trial outdoors.
[15:40] SPEAKER_01: So I'm trying to just get good at it again.
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: I think you bring up a really good point on this, Ari, because I think it's it's January 20th, and a lot of our listeners are probably getting ready for their first race of the season sometime between March and May.
[15:53] SPEAKER_02: And if they're like me, they've mostly been riding road and gravel for the last who knows how long.
[15:59] SPEAKER_02: Three to six months.
[16:00] SPEAKER_02: So when do you think it's time?
[16:02] SPEAKER_02: We're 10 weeks out from Oceanside, or are we nine weeks?
[16:05] SPEAKER_02: Like, when is it time to switch and commit to the TT bike?
[16:08] SPEAKER_02: If you're you know, is it year-round?
[16:11] SPEAKER_02: Is it January?
[16:12] SPEAKER_02: I mean, for me, I think it's like now.
[16:14] SPEAKER_02: I think it's next week.
[16:15] SPEAKER_02: I need to like get my TT bike, put fresh sealant in the tires, and get on it and maybe say goodnight to my road bike for a while.
[16:21] SPEAKER_01: I think it so depends on who you are.
[16:23] SPEAKER_01: Like just looking at Jackson, seems like you can you could just ride your road bike all the way into Oceanside, hop on it the week of, and probably be fine.
[16:32] SPEAKER_01: Like you seem like that type of athlete.
[16:35] SPEAKER_01: Trevor Foley, I swear he like will just not ride his TT bike for weeks at a time.
[16:41] SPEAKER_01: Maybe he I don't know, just keeps in touch with it a little bit, but he strikes me as a guy who rides a lot of road bike and just he's got tree trunk legs, you know, so he can just get on and he's got the he's got the muscular recruitment to just push good power and time trial position.
[16:55] SPEAKER_01: I low key have chicken legs.
[16:57] SPEAKER_01: My girlfriend, I'll just be walking around the house and she's like, oh my god, you got chicken legs.
[17:01] SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yo, shut up.
[17:03] SPEAKER_01: But I think it uh Yo, shut up.
[17:07] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think we got a comment saying you lost 10 pounds and lost all your leg muscle, too.
[17:12] SPEAKER_02: So we'll have to dig into that one at some point.
[17:13] SPEAKER_01: On uh on the Spotify comments, I didn't know.
[17:16] SPEAKER_02: Or someone DM me.
[17:17] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[17:18] SPEAKER_02: I saw it somewhere.
[17:19] SPEAKER_00: It looks like you've got like have like a super strong core and like generate a lot of power from that.
[17:23] SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate or am I just like making that up?
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: On running or time trialing?
[17:28] SPEAKER_00: I would think you're running.
[17:29] SPEAKER_02: His abs power his four-minute mile.
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: Dude, I don't I think if we did a core workout, just guessing I would be by far the worst of the three of us.
[17:37] SPEAKER_01: Like maybe a stable core or like the very specific like muscles in the hips and that's what I mean.
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: Like when you run, there's like no like twisting or anything of your core, so it's like solid.
[17:48] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't know if that's like core strength or it's just like biomechanics honed over you know, in the same way as like swim technique.
[17:54] SPEAKER_01: But I I think for me, uh I gotta be on the T T bike.
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I'll I'll still probably hit the road every now and again in this in this block, especially maybe if we hit some VO2 where you know you are just trying to get that metabolic effort.
[18:10] SPEAKER_01: But you know, my legs are a little bit weak when it comes to long time trial efforts, and so the day that I can kind of do uh you know, run for two hours and then get on the bike for four hours and not have such a massive drop-off in sp in like that uh in power just due to durability and muscular endurance, I think I'll be in a really good spot.
[18:33] SPEAKER_01: And it's at a point where this time last year, I know you know Justin, we were on the podcast with Greg, it was just like VO three VO2 workouts every week.
[18:41] SPEAKER_01: And I'm barely touching that now because it's probably gonna be fine, you know, and we're really, really addressing the weaknesses.
[18:49] SPEAKER_01: So that that was my my bike workout for the week.
[18:52] SPEAKER_00: Nice.
[18:52] SPEAKER_00: Well, I was gonna have one comment on that, and uh this actually I don't know where this lands, but my sort of idea I had today was that I don't think it matters how much easy you ride arrow at all.
[19:06] SPEAKER_00: I think just doing all your intervals, but then this workout, you're kind of in that middle zone, like almost probably getting close to Iron Man power, like just below.
[19:16] SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of an in-between.
[19:18] SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, like today I had a workout and I pretty much just did the hard intervals in arrow, and the rest was like 50-50.
[19:25] SPEAKER_00: I didn't keep track.
[19:26] SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it's just different.
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: Maybe you just need to do six hours uh arrow instead of four, and then you'll get better and everything will be great.
[19:35] SPEAKER_00: That's probably the solution already.
[19:36] SPEAKER_01: I'll tell yeah, I'll tell Jack, we'll do that next week.
[19:38] SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
[19:39] SPEAKER_02: All right, how about you, Justin?
[19:41] SPEAKER_02: So I'm wrapping up a big bike camp.
[19:44] SPEAKER_02: Um, I rode from San Francisco to Monterey on Saturday.
[19:48] SPEAKER_02: On Sunday, I rode from Monterey down to Big Sur along the coast, back up to Santa Cruz, home of the beautiful 70.3 Santa Cruz.
[19:56] SPEAKER_02: And then yesterday, which is actually a Monday, but I'm gonna include it in my week uh just because of the three days were kind of the ride I'm gonna talk about, was from Santa Cruz up and over the mountains, uh all the way winding back to San Francisco.
[20:08] SPEAKER_02: It was massive days, um 380 miles over the three days with 25,000 feet of elevation gain.
[20:17] SPEAKER_02: So pretty serious riding.
[20:19] SPEAKER_02: Um the first two days were six and a half hours, and yesterday was six hours and five minutes.
[20:23] SPEAKER_02: And I did some intervals um on the last day.
[20:27] SPEAKER_02: Took the first day chill, but uh yeah, I could just ramble about you know 20 hours of riding for a long time.
[20:34] SPEAKER_02: It was an amazing trip.
[20:35] SPEAKER_02: Um but what questions do you guys have for me about this ride?
[20:39] SPEAKER_02: Uh so no swim, no run.
[20:41] SPEAKER_02: Um, so I ran off the bike on Saturday, but no swim for three days.
[20:44] SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say Cam Worf would have run off the bike all three days.
[20:47] SPEAKER_01: He would have run 20 miles off the bike.
[20:50] SPEAKER_02: So I tried to we'll talk about day one first.
[20:52] SPEAKER_02: Uh I rode 134 miles pretty smooth.
[20:56] SPEAKER_02: Um, average heart rate 116, normalized power 235.
[21:00] SPEAKER_02: And then I ran off the bike in hour eight and bonked really hard.
[21:06] SPEAKER_02: I ran three miles at like 640, 630, 620 per mile, and then I just got dizzy and almost fell over.
[21:12] SPEAKER_02: And then I walked for five minutes and then jogged back in at 730 per mile pace.
[21:15] SPEAKER_02: So I ran 10k off the bike, but it was ugly, and I was like, all right, I've work to do to like I think I made a small feeling mistake, and then I also had to check into a hotel and change between the bike and the run.
[21:25] SPEAKER_02: So my lesson was like, I can't, I had about 20 minutes of downtime between the bike finishing and starting the run, and it crushed me, I think, because I think my body started shutting down, my my blood sugar dropped, and then I tried to ramp it back up, I had a gel, and I just like never could really get going.
[21:41] SPEAKER_02: My legs actually felt okay, but um yeah, I don't know.
[21:43] SPEAKER_02: Excuses, excuses.
[21:44] SPEAKER_02: I was kind of pissed off because I really wanted it to be like an hour solid Iron Man effort, but it was not the hero day I expected.
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: Dude, I I've actually been having that happen.
[21:54] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've had it happen just a million billion times over the years, but lately.
[22:00] SPEAKER_01: I have noticed that if I'm running off the bike and I get that really bonky feeling, it kind of stabilizes around 30 to 35 minutes.
[22:11] SPEAKER_01: And it's been happening so many times that now I'll just like be I'll be like kind of fucked just running easy and I'll be like, okay, I just uh it's been like 15 minutes, I just need to run for 20 more minutes, and I think I'll be good by then.
[22:23] SPEAKER_01: Because I mean I don't know how much carb you're burning, maybe a little bit once you get down to 620 pace, but like if you're just running seven minute miles or maybe even six forty miles, right?
[22:34] SPEAKER_01: You're at LT1, it's a like you probably have enough onboard muscle glycogen, unless you really underfueled on the ride, that like you're just going through a blood sugar crash, and it's not that you're completely out of carbs, like you'll be able to do it.
[22:50] SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it'd be an interesting thing to experiment with because it was like th it was between 30 and 35 minutes every time it's happened, like the last four or five times that I noticed, and I was like, hmm, that's really interesting.
[23:01] SPEAKER_01: And so now I'm like way less worried about bonking and like continuing on for a decently long run off the bike.
[23:08] SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
[23:09] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, mine was exactly 21 minutes, and uh I had three minutes of stoppage, and then I basically was able to jog back, and uh I'll have to look at exactly how many minutes of dead time I had between the two.
[23:22] SPEAKER_02: It's hard to experiment with like hour eight in general.
[23:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's very different.
[23:26] SPEAKER_01: I was talking about like a two to three hour bike.
[23:29] SPEAKER_02: So this is hour eight, and I was like, alright, I have two massive days.
[23:32] SPEAKER_02: The next two days I'm not about to like run through this bonk and end up on the side of the road.
[23:36] SPEAKER_00: I bonked after a five-hour ride of camp, and I I took 600 grams of carbs in five hours, and then I had a 45-minute run off the bike, or like 50, just like kind of cruisy, and then I was like, I don't need to bring a gel, and then so I was gonna run 11k, and at like 4k, I was like, shit, I'm hungry.
[23:53] SPEAKER_00: And like I guess I didn't bonk because like I felt I got to that point where you're like you're thinking about every piece of food you're ever gonna eat, and it's just like so much, but like I kept descending, like my last K, like I wasn't running fast at all, but the last K I still had plenty of energy to speed up, and then I finished and like my legs and energy felt fine.
[24:13] SPEAKER_00: I was just like starving, and I was like almost starting to like feel a tiny bit dizzy, but like uh then I was like, Am I just imagining this?
[24:21] SPEAKER_00: I don't know, and that happened for like six or seven K, and I was fine.
[24:24] SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
[24:25] SPEAKER_01: What did you eat after though?
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: Uh so we had a little like a conference room area set up where they had some like nutrition for us right in the lobby, and even though I knew that I had room service already at the room, like on the whatever 16th floor, I went straight to that room and grabbed a cookie, ate it on the way up to the room, and then I had two servings.
[24:45] SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
[24:46] SPEAKER_00: Then I had two servings of uh spaghetti with what spaghetti bowling is whatever, and I just absolutely inhaled the first one and a half classic Mexican dish of spaghetti bowling needs.
[24:57] SPEAKER_00: The first one and a half plates I like finished in like three minutes, and then I was full, and then the last half plate was like 20 more minutes.
[25:04] SPEAKER_02: Oh god, that's interesting.
[25:06] SPEAKER_02: So, so my uh I I have three secrets to nailing a three-day camp like this because I did this um four years ago and six years ago, and like I was so smoked on the second and third day.
[25:18] SPEAKER_02: And like, so I guess secret number zero to not actually a secret is just like train for four more years and then try again.
[25:23] SPEAKER_02: Uh, because this one was went a lot better than those did, where I could actually ride six to seven hours a day and not be completely smoked.
[25:30] SPEAKER_02: So I recovered really well.
[25:32] SPEAKER_02: Day two was strong, and day three was probably my best ride of all time yesterday.
[25:35] SPEAKER_02: But secret number one, sleep for nine hours every night.
[25:38] SPEAKER_02: Like when I did this four or five years ago, I basically like drank six beers every night and stayed up late and like sat in a hot tub and got dehydrated, and I felt pretty horrible.
[25:45] SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's a secret.
[25:48] SPEAKER_01: But it kind of is nobody knows that nobody knows sleeping nine hours a night is better than drinking six beers.
[25:58] SPEAKER_02: But it's just like, I don't know, if you're like I was when I was early to mid-20s, maybe not that many amateur triathletes are like mine.
[26:05] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
[26:06] SPEAKER_02: Somebody really like to just like get after it at night and disrespect the training a little bit.
[26:13] SPEAKER_02: Um, it can only take you so far.
[26:15] SPEAKER_02: Like, a lot of these guys, I guarantee you, who are listening to this podcast between 18 to 24, 25 to 29, are still trying to drink hazy IPAs on Saturday nights after doing their six-hour ride on Saturday and get after it on Sunday.
[26:26] SPEAKER_02: And like I was uh one of those guys, and here I am in my early 30s, a wise old man who says, damn, my performance is actually really improved by switching to athletic brewing at night on Saturdays and Sundays after big rides.
[26:41] SPEAKER_02: Cakey sponsor plug.
[26:42] SPEAKER_02: I'll second that.
[26:45] SPEAKER_02: Um so secret number two eat until you're sick after these rides.
[26:50] SPEAKER_02: Uh, we had giant Chipotle burritos already pre-delivered to the hotels we were staying at upon arrival, and then we ate those until we were sick, and then we ordered like extra large pizzas every night, and then also ate, and then we had ice cream.
[27:02] SPEAKER_02: So I actually put on two pounds over the course of 21 hours of training over three days.
[27:08] SPEAKER_01: I was literally gonna say the guy who calls you fat in the YouTube comments is probably having a laugh at this right now.
[27:14] SPEAKER_02: I know, right?
[27:16] SPEAKER_02: Hey, 5.8 watts per kilo for 20 minutes yesterday.
[27:19] SPEAKER_00: So okay, let's hear about this best ride of your life yesterday.
[27:22] SPEAKER_00: We've dropped it a few times, might as well just get into it.
[27:24] SPEAKER_00: Last secret, don't be soft.
[27:26] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so yesterday I rode six hours, 10,000 feet of climbing.
[27:29] SPEAKER_02: Um, I was kind of like shocked at how good I felt.
[27:32] SPEAKER_02: The first hour was super cold, so I rode 300 watts for an hour just to stay warm.
[27:36] SPEAKER_02: And then there were two climbs, Old La Honda and Tonitas.
[27:41] SPEAKER_02: For any Barrier Cyclists, they're pretty famous climbs.
[27:43] SPEAKER_02: Um I think old La Honda has been on Zwift.
[27:46] SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
[27:47] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Old La Honda is on Zwift, yeah.
[27:48] SPEAKER_01: No, Old La Honda, dude, kid from my town, young kid, uh holds the KOM.
[27:55] SPEAKER_01: Really?
[27:55] SPEAKER_01: Is he a runner?
[27:56] SPEAKER_01: I heard like I heard about this kid.
[27:58] SPEAKER_01: Was a runner, Gavin Sherry.
[27:59] SPEAKER_01: Was a runner and then just got hopped, got went to Stanford, bunch of injuries, hopped on a bike.
[28:04] SPEAKER_01: I think borrowed his friend's bike and put out like seven and a half watts per kilo for 14 minutes up this climb to beat.
[28:12] SPEAKER_01: It was like Phil Guyman and then some pro mountain biker with like the top two.
[28:15] SPEAKER_01: No way.
[28:16] SPEAKER_01: And and Phil Guyman back in the day when he was like just ripping too, and he just he like put I don't know, 10 or 20 seconds into him.
[28:22] SPEAKER_01: It's it's ridiculous.
[28:24] SPEAKER_01: I hope this kid, you know, pans out, but yeah.
[28:27] SPEAKER_02: So he smoked me.
[28:29] SPEAKER_02: I rode 17 minutes at 376 watts.
[28:32] SPEAKER_02: Um, I was kind of like chasing a couple of the guys with me.
[28:36] SPEAKER_02: They're two Cat1 cyclists, so I was like, all right, I can't let them drop me, I'll I'll get after it with them.
[28:40] SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like looking down, my heart rate was actually in control, my legs felt good, and I was just like, oh, I was like, am I just like fucked like from leg effort or is my heart rate just low?
[28:50] SPEAKER_02: But I just felt in control.
[28:51] SPEAKER_02: So got to the top and was like, that was not all out.
[28:54] SPEAKER_02: Like maybe I'll give it a go.
[28:55] SPEAKER_02: And so an hour later, there was a 20-minute climb.
[28:57] SPEAKER_02: It's actually a 25-minute climb, but I was like, all right, I'm gonna do 20 minutes hard.
[29:01] SPEAKER_02: And I went out trying to hold 400 watts because I've never actually held 400 watts for 20 minutes.
[29:06] SPEAKER_02: I've always known I I've known I could for about a year, but I've never actually done it.
[29:10] SPEAKER_02: So uh I went out hard for 10 minutes and I was averaging 412, and so I did 10 more minutes at 412, and I finished with 411 watts for 20 minutes after 90 after four hours of riding at 292 watts.
[29:25] SPEAKER_01: You're telling me you're 70 kilos right now?
[29:27] SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's like 73.
[29:28] SPEAKER_02: 72?
[29:29] SPEAKER_02: Oh, a light right now.
[29:30] SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many pounds I'm 160 pounds exactly.
[29:33] SPEAKER_01: Okay, 72.73.
[29:34] SPEAKER_01: 72.5 kilos.
[29:36] SPEAKER_00: That's impressive numbers.
[29:37] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[29:37] SPEAKER_00: I've never done 400, I've never done well, every power test I've ever done, which was a long time ago, I haven't done any, was arrow on the trainer.
[29:46] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, doing it on a road bike outside in cool weather conditions on a climb is it's so much easier.
[29:53] SPEAKER_02: Magical, yeah.
[29:53] SPEAKER_02: It's amazing how much it helps.
[29:55] SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't a perfect, you know, uh blah blah blah excuses, but it's got me thinking like, could I do what could I do on a perfect climb in perfect conditions?
[30:01] SPEAKER_02: Probably 425.
[30:02] SPEAKER_02: Um, I think would be attainable.
[30:04] SPEAKER_02: So I was I was kind of stoked.
[30:06] SPEAKER_02: I guess I have a 400 watt FTP now.
[30:07] SPEAKER_02: What do you think, Ari?
[30:09] SPEAKER_01: I think you gotta get better at running if you want to hold me off, but I think that's true.
[30:14] SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a great effort.
[30:15] SPEAKER_00: Speaking of, okay, so Ari's obviously the best runner.
[30:18] SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I I had to I gotta give Justin a bit of shit because last week he was like, Oh, check the new updated rankings for who's the best biker, and so I didn't, and I just assumed he was being honest, and I went and checked, and I'm ranked significantly higher than in the bike rankings, which okay, those are kind of arbitrary, who knows?
[30:37] SPEAKER_00: And then I went and looked at our head-to-head, and I've outbiked him like 80 over 80% of the time that we've raced.
[30:43] SPEAKER_00: So I'm the best biker in this group, Ari's the best runner, and Justin's the best swimmer.
[30:47] SPEAKER_00: Facts.
[30:48] SPEAKER_02: I think that's fair.
[30:49] SPEAKER_02: I think that's fair.
[30:49] SPEAKER_02: Your your bike rank, I know I was laughing at that too, because I checked it after I said that.
[30:53] SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh shit.
[30:54] SPEAKER_02: I hope he doesn't call me out on that because he's ranked like 20th in the world right now on the bike.
[30:58] SPEAKER_02: But we'll see at Oceanside, won't we?
[31:00] SPEAKER_01: We will.
[31:00] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we absolutely will.
[31:02] SPEAKER_01: Now, dude, that's that I do want to say that's uh it's a lot higher than I've ever done for 20 minutes.
[31:07] SPEAKER_01: So uh that's I that's me too.
[31:10] SPEAKER_02: It's a lot higher.
[31:10] SPEAKER_02: Here's what matters it's a lot higher than I've ever done by a freaking lot.
[31:15] SPEAKER_02: Like it gave me the confidence like, holy shit, I can fucking make it in this sport.
[31:19] SPEAKER_02: Like, I this is 20 watts higher than last year when I dropped everyone at Oceanside, and I'm in way better shape.
[31:26] SPEAKER_02: So I I'm gonna do it again.
[31:27] SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell you something that you are gonna need to believe.
[31:32] SPEAKER_00: And I learned I got this from Lionel's YouTube video a few years ago.
[31:35] SPEAKER_00: I went like sometimes he just really nails it, and this is one way he he nailed it.
[31:41] SPEAKER_00: And for him, it's because he's a bad swimmer, but for you, it's because your run is, you know, your weakness.
[31:46] SPEAKER_00: If you want to be like the best in this sport, you have to be the best biker, not one of the best bikers.
[31:52] SPEAKER_00: You have to be the best biker, and I think you honestly can.
[31:55] SPEAKER_00: It like you're on your way to it.
[31:56] SPEAKER_00: Oh, I remember this video.
[31:57] SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was so amped when I saw Lionel's like video of that.
[32:00] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, this is sick, he's gonna be so good next year.
[32:03] SPEAKER_00: And then some something happened and he went like the other way or something.
[32:06] SPEAKER_00: But uh, but yeah, Justin Real's gotta be the best biker, and uh he could, or could be me next year.
[32:13] SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
[32:13] SPEAKER_02: And obviously, I have to be able to get off the bike feeling way fresher in these seven-hour days is part of that.
[32:19] SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, so why did I go ride 20 hours?
[32:21] SPEAKER_02: Well, and you know, it's a two-hour bike race, but it's about the strength endurance, the same intention that Ari is trying to build.
[32:27] SPEAKER_02: It's about being able to be fresh in hour five, and and I am peeking for a full distance Iron Man in May this year, but you know, hour five, hour six, hour seven.
[32:35] SPEAKER_02: It challenges the mind, it challenges the muscles, and uh, yeah, I just love it.
[32:39] SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's about what Iron Man is all about and uh the essence of it.
[32:42] SPEAKER_01: Well, it's interesting you you bring that up because Cam Werf just posted he did some like double half 5k on the same day uh in Carlsbad, and he ran 1140 in the half, which I assume was first before the 5k, I guess.
[33:00] SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I actually don't know, but and it probably doesn't matter.
[33:03] SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, I feel like Cam runs like 115, 116 off the bike in a 70.3, and that just tells you like how strong his bike is that he can just smash and basically get off the bike and and run a super high percentage of of what he would run fresh.
[33:23] SPEAKER_01: And I mean I think that's that's kind of the model for you too, is like if you're like you know, you you need to get in 112 open shape or whatever, and then you're like, okay, I'm in 112 shape, I'm in insanely good bike shape, I'm insanely good like with the endurance right now.
[33:38] SPEAKER_01: I feel confident I get off the bike and run 114.
[33:41] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[33:41] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think two minutes is like the ceiling of because I when I ran 110 in Oceanside, I was not in under 108 shape at all.
[33:50] SPEAKER_00: No way.
[33:50] SPEAKER_00: Like I might have only been in 109 shape, but that wasn't a super super hard bike the last 30k.
[33:55] SPEAKER_00: So I kind of you know, but off a hard bike, two minutes is I think the closest you can get.
[33:59] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[34:00] SPEAKER_02: I've been I've been more like six minutes traditionally.
[34:03] SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say I'm like four or five probably.
[34:05] SPEAKER_02: Like six or seven.
[34:06] SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I'm in 111, 112 shape now, and I've still never ran 116.
[34:11] SPEAKER_02: So you will.
[34:12] SPEAKER_02: I will.
[34:13] SPEAKER_02: All right, we better move on to the run.
[34:15] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, run session.
[34:16] SPEAKER_02: So uh mine's pretty quick.
[34:18] SPEAKER_02: Uh it was not a huge run week.
[34:20] SPEAKER_02: I did 32 miles.
[34:21] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and Tuesday my run was like uh a bit of a not a fail, but I had an hour at LT1 and my legs were pretty cooked, so I took it easy and did 30 minutes at LT1.
[34:32] SPEAKER_02: But my run session on Thursday was eight times one minute hard at four percent on the treadmill.
[34:37] SPEAKER_02: Um, it was a fart lick, so not really an interval workout, but it was a 10-mile run on the treadmill, 75 minutes.
[34:44] SPEAKER_02: And basically every four or five minutes, I just toggled it up to what I felt like was a hard threshold effort and ran hard uphill for four percent and then jogged to uh, you know, basically back down to easy jog pace.
[35:00] SPEAKER_02: I wasn't really paying attention to the miles an hour.
[35:02] SPEAKER_02: I think the intention of this workout really was just to find some turnover and build that efficiency in the stride.
[35:08] SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, I really like this like one minute hard type effort.
[35:11] SPEAKER_02: It wasn't max, but it certainly wasn't easy.
[35:14] SPEAKER_02: It was just hard enough where I didn't have to walk after.
[35:16] SPEAKER_01: Well, why uphill?
[35:18] SPEAKER_01: Is that just what your coach said, or did you did it just one minute hard and you set that?
[35:22] SPEAKER_02: I actually suggested that to my coach.
[35:24] SPEAKER_02: My legs were pretty tired last week.
[35:26] SPEAKER_02: Um and so and I was going into this big ride, so I wanted to be fresh by Saturday, and I said, hey, instead of running outside, which is kind of hilly um by default and requires downhill running, I wanted to avoid the downhills.
[35:42] SPEAKER_02: Historically, that's just gotten me in a little bit of trouble with like knees and hips and impact and loading.
[35:47] SPEAKER_02: So I felt like okay, maybe treadmill will just be get a higher cadence, maybe a softer surface.
[35:52] SPEAKER_02: And then I felt like running uphill based on my soreness or whatever fatigue I had in my legs might be easier.
[35:59] SPEAKER_02: Maybe a fallacy, but that's that's what I was thinking.
[36:01] SPEAKER_02: So I was like, how about I do them uphill instead?
[36:03] SPEAKER_01: I feel like it'd be totally the opposite.
[36:05] SPEAKER_01: I want to hear um my fearless leader, Jack Kelly's take on this, but I'd say less injury risk running uphill.
[36:10] SPEAKER_00: If you it sounds like your mind was in a let's not get injured and still get a good workout for sure.
[36:16] SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
[36:16] SPEAKER_00: And then if you do it at 4%, you can still push the effort and you're going probably like a mile an hour or more slower than if you're running off flat, especially outside.
[36:26] SPEAKER_00: There's downhills.
[36:27] SPEAKER_00: I think it makes a lot of sense for that.
[36:29] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Jackson explained it better than I did, but that's that's correct.
[36:32] SPEAKER_01: And you definitely do lower like the amount of of force, of impact, like of of body weight that you're uh you're experiencing every step, which I guess in theory would you know, if you're like, I don't want to get a stress fracture, yeah, uphill treadmill might be the way to go.
[36:50] SPEAKER_01: But you're you're still you're shifting load to other areas.
[36:53] SPEAKER_01: So yes, yeah.
[37:03] SPEAKER_02: None.
[37:04] SPEAKER_02: So I I agree, like if you're a guy who's had some tendinopathy or peronial stuff or calf stuff, like this doesn't necessarily help you.
[37:13] SPEAKER_02: But for me, like it's just bone loading and its impact.
[37:16] SPEAKER_02: And I was sensing, um, you know, yeah, just my spidey senses just were tingling at that one out of ten.
[37:21] SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of experience now with little injuries, and I was just like, I do not need to just go like pound pavement at 5'10 pace downhills hard for minutes on tired smashed legs.
[37:30] SPEAKER_02: Like, I just think it's a bad idea.
[37:32] SPEAKER_02: It's January, and I'm going into a 400-mile ride in 36 hours.
[37:37] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you gotta back yourself.
[37:39] SPEAKER_01: Smart.
[37:39] SPEAKER_02: And it's only 4%, it's not like 10%.
[37:42] SPEAKER_02: 4% that's true.
[37:43] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I can't rem I think I was running like 630 per mile instead of 540 per mile.
[37:48] SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a pretty significant reduction in speed and in load, but um, I don't know.
[37:53] SPEAKER_02: It is an interesting one.
[37:54] SPEAKER_02: You could probably need a run physio to comment on our Spotify comments to tell us what they think of the uphill versus the flat running.
[38:00] SPEAKER_02: Alright, Jacko, what do you got?
[38:01] SPEAKER_00: Well, it looks like my run is actually very similar to yours.
[38:04] SPEAKER_00: So I in the Cosmo camp did two run workouts.
[38:09] SPEAKER_00: This was the second one, it was on the second last day of camp, um, right before leaving.
[38:15] SPEAKER_00: So I actually ran easy on the treadmill in the morning, um, either 25 or 30 minutes, I can't remember, before breakfast.
[38:23] SPEAKER_00: Went and had breakfast, went and did a hard swim workout, and then had a bit of a break and some calories, and then went and hit this run.
[38:31] SPEAKER_00: So my goal was just to get some time out of VO2 effort and hopefully get my heart rate up to VO2, uh, which for me is like I consider once I'm getting up to 160, I'm I'm getting to like VO2, and I wanted the pace to be not slow, like I wasn't expecting greatness.
[38:50] SPEAKER_00: Like you're in Mexico, it's hot, it's January, you're on the end of a camp, but I wanted to like at least move my way towards running faster.
[38:57] SPEAKER_00: So it was eight times 90 seconds VO2 effort, 60 seconds walk jog, about half of it was walk, half it was jog, and that's all it was really.
[39:09] SPEAKER_00: It was a 65-minute total run.
[39:11] SPEAKER_00: I did a few pickups before that, and yeah.
[39:14] SPEAKER_00: I mean, if it was on in like cooler conditions, I probably would have shortened the rest and done like 90 seconds on, 45 seconds off or something.
[39:23] SPEAKER_00: But I found anytime I'm not used to the heat and I want to keep the quality, like you just have to increase the rest a little bit.
[39:31] SPEAKER_00: Um, otherwise, your your temperature just climbs and climbs, and then by the end you're going slow.
[39:36] SPEAKER_01: And it's a minute, it's not even that much.
[39:38] SPEAKER_00: It's not that much, it was probably about right.
[39:41] SPEAKER_00: Um, but I averaged about 305 per K for these, which felt like I was really moving, and obviously I wasn't moving that fast.
[39:49] SPEAKER_00: Um, just on a flat road in front of the hotel, and heart rate did get up over 160 um for you know the last 30 to 45 seconds of each rep.
[40:01] SPEAKER_00: So I was happy with it.
[40:02] SPEAKER_00: I almost was like, oh, should I do 10 reps or eight?
[40:05] SPEAKER_00: But I decided early on, like, we'll do eight reps and we'll keep it fast.
[40:09] SPEAKER_00: Like, and I did descend the reps.
[40:12] SPEAKER_00: Um, the first one was like 314 pace or something, and then the second last the last three were all like 303, 258, 302 or something.
[40:21] SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was pretty happy with it.
[40:23] SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I'm not an amazing run shape, but it's the stuff I need to work on, and it's uh I think for me, VO2 is the most important thing to continually keep up with, although I don't do a ton of workouts, I just need to like keep in touch with it frequently throughout the year.
[40:39] SPEAKER_00: So we're uh yeah, we're moving in the right direction.
[40:42] SPEAKER_02: Jackson, coming off your stress reaction in August, right, for for our listeners, like we both basically got stress reactions on the same at the same race in the same week of the third week of August.
[40:58] SPEAKER_02: No, third week of July at 70.3 Boise.
[41:01] SPEAKER_02: Like we're now six months later.
[41:04] SPEAKER_02: How are you timid with the VO2?
[41:08] SPEAKER_02: How are you thinking about ramping it up?
[41:10] SPEAKER_02: What's the risk reward calculation in January?
[41:13] SPEAKER_02: Um, why didn't you do 12 instead of eight?
[41:16] SPEAKER_02: But why didn't you why were you confident enough to be able to do eight instead of four?
[41:19] SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I'm really curious about that.
[41:21] SPEAKER_02: And I think it's something that amateurs think a lot about.
[41:24] SPEAKER_02: It's just like, oh, I saw my friend do eight times a K, so I'm gonna go do eight times a K.
[41:28] SPEAKER_02: It might be like you should just go do four times a K, or maybe you're stronger than your friend and you should be doing 12 times a K.
[41:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so for me, the like stress reaction had a pretty clear explanation because I was adding a lot of speed work of like just a lot of fast pickups, like very fast, like sprinting pickups, frequently, like three to four times a week, and like quite a few of them, and sometimes like 20 seconds.
[41:57] SPEAKER_00: Like I just had this, like you know, I went too far into the extreme of like I need to build speed, and so I just like looked back and added it up, and like the amount of time I spent running faster than like 240 per K was like pretty significant each week, and prior to that I like never ran faster than 240 per K.
[42:17] SPEAKER_00: So I'm like it's like the force on the bones is like exponential, right?
[42:21] SPEAKER_00: The faster you go, it doesn't go up linearly.
[42:23] SPEAKER_00: So I just thought, okay, I need to that's the only time I've ever gotten an injury like that, and that's the only time I've ever done training like that.
[42:30] SPEAKER_00: So I just like adjusted my sort of thinking of I kind of talking to people and doing some research, realizing you probably don't need to really sprint for your pickups anyway, um, when you're trying to run 320 in a race.
[42:43] SPEAKER_00: If you do your pickups by like 245, 250, that's probably pretty fast still.
[42:47] SPEAKER_00: Um, so lower the speed a little bit, lower the length of the pickups to like 20 seconds at the most, uh, usually like 15, and then keep the frequency like three times a week, but don't do a crazy number of reps, do like three to six reps.
[43:01] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so since then I've ramped up pretty slowly, and then now I'm like just pretty confident that if I'm doing this, like it's not outside of anything I've ever done before and not gotten injured.
[43:11] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then also like don't do it if you're like feeling beat down in the legs.
[43:16] SPEAKER_00: Like, if I was feeling really beat down in the legs and I still wanted to get a VO2, maybe I would have done the treadmill because there was a treadmill at the resort, and I would have done something like what you did, or just said, eh, I've done a lot of good training this week.
[43:28] SPEAKER_00: Let's let's skip it.
[43:29] SPEAKER_00: So it's a little bit of everything, but mostly past experience.
[43:33] SPEAKER_01: Well, what was the temp also?
[43:34] SPEAKER_00: Um, it wasn't like insanely hot, but it was like 25.
[43:38] SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
[43:38] SPEAKER_00: And it's it's humid there.
[43:40] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[43:40] SPEAKER_00: So doesn't mean much to me.
[43:42] SPEAKER_00: Twenty five degrees.
[43:43] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was probably like I don't know, high seventies with eighty percent humidity or something like that.
[43:48] SPEAKER_00: Um hot enough.
[43:50] SPEAKER_00: That's toast when you're coming off today.
[43:52] SPEAKER_00: I ran and it was minus twenty five Celsius with the wind chill.
[43:56] SPEAKER_00: So I mean that is chilly, that's cold.
[44:01] SPEAKER_00: It's probably like zero Fahrenheit.
[44:03] SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's a bit of a difference.
[44:05] SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
[44:05] SPEAKER_02: Alright, Ari, tell us about your run week.
[44:08] SPEAKER_02: My turn.
[44:10] SPEAKER_01: Not my run week.
[44:11] SPEAKER_01: I didn't do anything crazy this week.
[44:12] SPEAKER_01: The workout I chose was kind of boring, honestly.
[44:17] SPEAKER_01: Five by six minutes.
[44:18] SPEAKER_01: I just did a bunch of like threshold this week.
[44:21] SPEAKER_02: So five by six minutes threshold is like five by a mile-ish.
[44:26] SPEAKER_01: A mile and some change.
[44:29] SPEAKER_01: No, it's closer to five by two K.
[44:31] SPEAKER_01: No.
[44:31] SPEAKER_01: It was uh I ran three, I probably averaged about three ten, three eleven.
[44:38] SPEAKER_01: Uh there were some thank God I ran faster for my 90 second reps.
[44:41] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[44:41] SPEAKER_01: Well it was it was you know nice weather.
[44:44] SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, uh that's that that's my run workout.
[44:48] SPEAKER_01: It's like so basic.
[44:50] SPEAKER_01: I had another rest.
[44:51] SPEAKER_01: So uh one minute?
[44:53] SPEAKER_01: Wait, let me check.
[44:54] SPEAKER_00: Jackson's already looked on Strava.
[44:56] SPEAKER_00: This is the same workout you gave last week, isn't it?
[44:58] SPEAKER_00: Is it?
[44:59] SPEAKER_00: And the like when I remember you were on the treadmill and you're like, they said it goes up to 15 miles an hour.
[45:03] SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
[45:04] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that one was six because the treadmill didn't go fast enough.
[45:08] SPEAKER_01: So it was so it was six by six minutes.
[45:10] SPEAKER_01: No, this was just five by six minutes.
[45:12] SPEAKER_01: Like I it's honestly so boring.
[45:14] SPEAKER_02: All right, what's the what's the purpose of a great runner for you doing five by six minutes?
[45:17] SPEAKER_02: Just nothing, just absolutely nothing.
[45:19] SPEAKER_02: Just maintain it.
[45:20] SPEAKER_02: Just the flex that he doesn't need to get better.
[45:22] SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's I I mean, this is uh I just do a bunch of thresholds.
[45:27] SPEAKER_01: Kind of like Jackson said, you know, he went to go train with the Norwegians.
[45:30] SPEAKER_01: It was like, it seems like they were doing as much threshold as they possibly could.
[45:34] SPEAKER_02: Are you using lactate heart rate?
[45:36] SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you know it's still your threshold and it hasn't gotten better or worse?
[45:39] SPEAKER_01: Dude, fuff fuck all that.
[45:41] SPEAKER_01: You just go by feel.
[45:43] SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't check my heart rate.
[45:45] SPEAKER_01: I was checking the pace to make sure it was like fast enough, but honestly, threshold is like it's a pretty wide range.
[45:53] SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it could be like I think it could be considered the fast end of threshold for a session if you're doing intervals, at like around 30 minute pace, like basically 10k pace or just slower than 10k pace sort of thing, or all the way up to 70.3 pace, you know.
[46:13] SPEAKER_02: So somewhere between 10k pace and 70.3 pace lies your threshold.
[46:18] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that's fair.
[46:19] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it depends on the day.
[46:21] SPEAKER_00: For a f for us, I wouldn't say an age group or that threshold.
[46:25] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[46:25] SPEAKER_01: I would say third, you know, 30 to 70 minute run pace, like time to exhaustion type thing.
[46:33] SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's I don't know, anywhere from two, you know, if I'm doing short reps, I could probably run two fifty low 250 pace.
[46:42] SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're doing like like 20 20 by 400 or 20 by 600 kind kind of thing, where you're like taking 30 second rest, like it's you know, it's short reps and honestly kind of long rest compared to the length of the rep.
[46:58] SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, if I'm doing straight, it might be more closer to 70.3 or just quicker than 70.3.
[47:04] SPEAKER_01: But I didn't really do anything like that interesting on the run.
[47:07] SPEAKER_01: I just like I there were uh like a couple other threshold sessions that were basically like they were slightly different structure, but yeah, it's all all kind of boring this week.
[47:17] SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't do anything crazy fast.
[47:20] SPEAKER_01: Just basically trying to run spend a bunch of time a little bit quicker than 70.3 and like really focusing.
[47:27] SPEAKER_01: I'm at swim camp, we'll talk about that next, but it's like it was really focusing on muscular endurance and durability on the bike and time trialing and swimming.
[47:35] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's really not much not much went into my run.
[47:39] SPEAKER_01: I just good volume, decent amount of threshold.
[47:41] SPEAKER_01: That's it.
[47:41] SPEAKER_00: Sounds like my swim.
[47:42] SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the best training, sometimes the best training is simple.
[47:44] SPEAKER_01: And you're the best swimmer in the group.
[47:46] SPEAKER_01: So what was your swim there, Ari?
[47:48] SPEAKER_01: My swim.
[47:49] SPEAKER_01: I'm actually a little excited to talk about this.
[47:51] SPEAKER_02: Tell us about the water wings, boom, yeah, the Bronco Butterfly, the catch-up freestyle drill.
[47:57] SPEAKER_02: Did you get your bronze star yet?
[47:59] SPEAKER_01: I I'm here in I don't even know what any of those things you just said.
[48:03] SPEAKER_01: Um I'm here in the woodlands for a swim camp.
[48:06] SPEAKER_01: So I swam eight times last week, you know, coach on tech, every swim.
[48:11] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there were two like one-on-one technique sessions outside of those eight swims to really just hone in on one or two things that he wants me to work on.
[48:20] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so the set this week, it's uh everyone else would call it, I guess, threshold.
[48:26] SPEAKER_01: He calls it hold pace.
[48:27] SPEAKER_01: So it was on like Friday morning, and he's like, okay, once once we were all warmed up, he's like, Alright, we're gonna do 25 by 100, we're gonna go on 130, and he went to kind of everybody in the pool and was like, I want you to swim this pace, I want you to hold this pace.
[48:40] SPEAKER_01: You know, he told me he's like, Ari, you swim, I want you to hold 107s.
[48:43] SPEAKER_01: And the rule is it's like you go, you go out and you try to swim 107s, and if you blow up and you're like, you know, you can swim a 108, maybe a 109.
[48:54] SPEAKER_01: If you swim a 110, you're you basically you take a rep off and you get one more chance to try again.
[49:00] SPEAKER_01: And then if you blow up again and you don't hit the pace, then you just swim easy for the rest of it.
[49:06] SPEAKER_01: Because he's so big on like if you can't swim fast and you're swimming shitty, you're just getting nothing done.
[49:13] SPEAKER_01: Like or or moving in the wrong direction.
[49:16] SPEAKER_01: So this is probably one of the best swims I've ever had.
[49:19] SPEAKER_01: I basically hit uh like 106 high for basically every every rep.
[49:26] SPEAKER_01: It was like super consistent.
[49:27] SPEAKER_01: I was like taking the same amount of strokes every 25 and like conscious of it.
[49:31] SPEAKER_01: I was like coming into the wall at the same kind of point in my stroke every like every time.
[49:38] SPEAKER_01: Um it was a it was a very like super dialed-in feeling that I've I don't want to say never had in the swim, but extremely rare.
[49:47] SPEAKER_01: And it I couldn't have gone any faster, but I could have done a bunch more reps, honestly.
[49:53] SPEAKER_01: It was like it was just so such a technique-driven camp, you know, that I'm on this week and the next three weeks.
[49:59] SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I was just I wasn't trying to to like smash myself.
[50:04] SPEAKER_01: I was basically trying to swim that 106, 107 as easily as possible and really, really focusing on the the two things that we had addressed.
[50:13] SPEAKER_01: And uh it's working out so far, so that's you know, it's a good swim for me.
[50:17] SPEAKER_01: I hope.
[50:18] SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's pretty good.
[50:19] SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's about what I would do, to be honest.
[50:21] SPEAKER_02: That's really good.
[50:22] SPEAKER_02: I mean, if I think about like your deficit to me uh in the pool historically, it's always been like 10 seconds per 100.
[50:28] SPEAKER_01: No.
[50:29] SPEAKER_02: And I can confidently tell you probably a yeah or eight.
[50:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe eight.
[50:35] SPEAKER_00: That that definitely wouldn't be ten anymore, though.
[50:37] SPEAKER_00: What would it be?
[50:38] SPEAKER_00: Five?
[50:38] SPEAKER_02: I feel like a year ago it was consistently like nine or ten.
[50:41] SPEAKER_02: And I I'm just saying, like, I cannot I definitely couldn't do that holding 56, 57, 50.
[50:48] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I mean, what could you do?
[50:49] SPEAKER_02: Probably 101s.
[50:51] SPEAKER_02: 101 on 130.
[50:53] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, on 130, yeah.
[50:54] SPEAKER_02: 101s.
[50:55] SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like it's pretty close to true threshold or one second faster than that.
[50:59] SPEAKER_00: That's all it I mean.
[51:00] SPEAKER_00: Honestly, that's that would be a decent swim for me.
[51:02] SPEAKER_00: So you should be out of the water with me, and then um we'll have I'll I'll be swearing, and then dream situation for me.
[51:10] SPEAKER_01: No, but the thing is it's like I can do it for hundreds.
[51:13] SPEAKER_01: If we were doing if literally if we were doing 125s, I think I would have started to maybe not 125s, but like 150s.
[51:21] SPEAKER_01: It's also it required so much focus to just be like, okay, I gotta I like this is my breath timing, you know, and I gotta like focus on that basically every stroke, and I'm kind of like, you know, swim long, swim proud, that type of stuff.
[51:35] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[51:35] SPEAKER_00: That's the way to do it though, because then you just did two and a half K basically doing it right.
[51:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[51:41] SPEAKER_00: And then eventually you can do longer reps.
[51:43] SPEAKER_00: So big big success workout.
[51:45] SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure you learned a ton of things, and you have all these mental cues you're repeating during the swim.
[51:49] SPEAKER_02: Tell us the one from week one that you think has stuck with you the most, or is the most important thing you've learned that you are like, I'm thinking about this a lot and I'm applying it and it's working.
[52:00] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't want to go too deep into it, but it's like the number one thing he says is core engagement.
[52:09] SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't even know what that means.
[52:11] SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not, I'm like, is it flexing my abs?
[52:13] SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, but it's just having like a stable platform that um so I'm not like wiggling when I breathe or at any point, right?
[52:23] SPEAKER_01: Because I'm unstable.
[52:25] SPEAKER_01: So when I breathe, uh I rotate way too much, that causes me to scissor kick, that causes my head to go up, that causes me to like basically not catch any water while I'm breathing on my, you know, with with with basically my right hand, so it's like half my stroke that I'm I'm not pulling much water.
[52:44] SPEAKER_01: So it's this downstream cascade of effects that starts with just having a a stable platform, which like you're probably fucking great at from water polo, Justin and Jackson just from like you know, y well over a decade.
[52:55] SPEAKER_01: I don't even know when you started swimming a long ass fucking time ago.
[52:59] SPEAKER_01: You probably just have it.
[53:01] SPEAKER_01: So that that's that's the number one thing, and that's it's hard to to stay focused on.
[53:06] SPEAKER_01: It's hard to even know what it means, but there's moments.
[53:09] SPEAKER_01: There's like three or four strokes where I'm like, oh shit, there it is, and you're just trying to trying to figure out what it means.
[53:17] SPEAKER_01: Somebody's gonna click that and make a sound.
[53:19] SPEAKER_02: There's that little there's that little ab coming through.
[53:22] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, basically.
[53:23] SPEAKER_01: So that's so that's it.
[53:24] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we'll try to just uh keep improving the focus, you know, my ability to hold that for longer at higher stroke rates, uh higher efforts for longer reps, that kind of thing.
[53:36] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll check back in next week and see if I'm fucked from biking and running or if I'm making improvements from you know in the swim.
[53:44] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[53:45] SPEAKER_02: It's fun because talking to you guys, I've been a little bit more um I would just say aware of my form and position in the water, and maybe even getting a hunch to like focus on my own technique, which is something I've like literally never really done in in swimming.
[54:01] SPEAKER_02: Um I've always just like kind of hammered yardage and I hate you so much.
[54:05] SPEAKER_00: Every moment of my swim career has been like focusing on technique constantly because it's if I don't, it's just it's my natural technique, it's just shit.
[54:13] SPEAKER_00: I'll just sink in the water.
[54:15] SPEAKER_02: Damn.
[54:15] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny because I've I've been able to get away with it like for a long time.
[54:19] SPEAKER_02: Um, but now to get to the next level, which is like either swimming in the breakaway group from the front pack or being able to just like chill in the front pack, I'm not sure hammering more yardage would would be enough to get me there.
[54:33] SPEAKER_02: Um to like the yeah, like the I don't know, Greg Harper, Jamie Riddle, like Sam Laidlow type level.
[54:39] SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm certainly not there yet.
[54:40] SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, like the amount of work it would take to get there may not even be worth it in triathlon with the gains you can make on the bike and the run.
[54:47] SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, it's you guys have piqued my interest.
[54:51] SPEAKER_02: So now I'm like, now that I've access to a long course pool every single day, I'm seeing some really serious swim improvements in the last month.
[54:58] SPEAKER_02: Um, faster rate of swim improvement than I've ever seen in my in my life.
[55:03] SPEAKER_02: So it's bad for us.
[55:05] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe, but I'll probably just like still get out in the front pack.
[55:08] SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I might like take some video myself or hire a coach or learn to tickle my abs or whatever Ari was talking about there.
[55:15] SPEAKER_02: But um What was your swim workout?
[55:17] SPEAKER_00: Tell us about it.
[55:18] SPEAKER_02: I swim 25k.
[55:19] SPEAKER_02: My workout actually, I'm gonna change it because I just saw Jackson.
[55:21] SPEAKER_02: We did the exact same workout.
[55:23] SPEAKER_02: So I'll I'll pick that.
[55:24] SPEAKER_00: I didn't no, I'll no, I'll change mine.
[55:26] SPEAKER_02: I'll change mine because you did so much faster than me.
[55:28] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did long course uh all week last week.
[55:32] SPEAKER_02: I did three rounds of eight times a hundred as five threshold, one VO2.
[55:37] SPEAKER_02: You're actually changing yours?
[55:39] SPEAKER_02: God damn it.
[55:41] SPEAKER_02: Jackson doesn't want to have slower times than me.
[55:43] SPEAKER_02: So I did three rounds of eight hundreds, um eight one hundreds.
[55:47] SPEAKER_02: The first five were threshold, then one above threshold, so like one hard but not full max.
[55:52] SPEAKER_02: So think like five at seven out of ten effort, one at nine out of ten effort, and then two smooth at four out of ten effort, and then thirty-second rest.
[56:00] SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I did them all on 125, which is 10 seconds rest for me, um, long course meters, and I held 112 for the five thresholds, and then 108 for the hard one, and then 120 for the easy two.
[56:14] SPEAKER_02: So pretty good.
[56:15] SPEAKER_02: I've never really been able to clip like 112, 112, 112, 112 over and over, and then be able to pick it up to 108.
[56:21] SPEAKER_02: I think the sign that you're doing this set right is that you really can add or subtract, I should say, three or four seconds on that sixth rep.
[56:29] SPEAKER_02: Um, because if you're overswimming it, your sixth rep when you get to the VO2 part is really not going to be any faster.
[56:36] SPEAKER_02: So one that I think is good for people to try a few rounds of you know, hard into one very hard into a couple smooth, and then do it over and over.
[56:46] SPEAKER_00: I like that.
[56:46] SPEAKER_00: That's impressive one to hold that, honestly.
[56:49] SPEAKER_00: Like 108 in long horse pool is that's moving.
[56:53] SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, it's cooking.
[56:54] SPEAKER_02: It's cooking.
[56:55] SPEAKER_02: On Wednesdays, I was clipping some 106s.
[56:57] SPEAKER_02: I did some hundreds on two hundred on two minutes, and I did the last five on 105, 106.
[57:04] SPEAKER_00: Solid.
[57:05] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[57:06] SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's a solid swim.
[57:09] SPEAKER_00: I had a similar one and I changed it because I was so much slower.
[57:12] SPEAKER_00: So uh I I my biggest swim in the camp was on the second last day.
[57:19] SPEAKER_00: It was 5,500 meters total.
[57:21] SPEAKER_00: The main set was 40 50s, and 16 total reps of those 50s are hard.
[57:28] SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a classic one.
[57:29] SPEAKER_00: And it's a classic one where you do 16 reps every fourth hard, 12 reps every third hard, eight reps every other hard, and four reps every rep hard.
[57:37] SPEAKER_00: And as you're working through the set, you get a little bit more rest as you're doing a higher frequency of hard reps.
[57:43] SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically, all you need to do is it's 16 hard reps out of 40, um, getting like 15 to you know 30 seconds rest as it goes on.
[57:54] SPEAKER_00: And I was swimming with Nick, which was good because he's a bit quicker than me, and I was swimming like 33s, uh like 33 high, to be honest, for most of them in a short course meter pool, which was decent for the hard ones, honestly.
[58:06] SPEAKER_00: Like if you expand that out, that's like probably 108 per 100 pace once you add the extra flip turn, which is yeah, it's a VO2, it's a VO2 effort, and kind of like what Ari was talking about.
[58:19] SPEAKER_00: I like to get quite time at a high quality, and uh for that swim, I felt like I held pretty decent technique, and I was happy with that.
[58:27] SPEAKER_00: And so that was kind of the main the main thing I got out of that.
[58:30] SPEAKER_00: Nick was like a second quicker than me, so I was kind of finishing at his feet, and then just for some endurance, I did 10 by 100 just cruise on 130 um to get some mileage in after that, and I was just coming at like 123.
[58:44] SPEAKER_00: Um, but then today I had an absolute terrible swim, which always happens after travel for me.
[58:51] SPEAKER_00: I just like I don't know what it is, it's like I like I don't know what happens with my technique, everything feels so bad for a couple days after travel.
[58:59] SPEAKER_00: So um hoping to get that back for the end of the week, but I got spanked today in the pool by a couple of uh you know, swim team type guys.
[59:10] SPEAKER_00: So gonna have to get a little bit more motivated to to up my speed if I want to actually uh compete there in training, which is what you want.
[59:17] SPEAKER_01: You gotta be burning for Oceanside, dude.
[59:19] SPEAKER_01: I don't see the burn.
[59:20] SPEAKER_01: I'm not feeling the burn.
[59:21] SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling the burn from Justin.
[59:23] SPEAKER_00: The burn is there, it's just sometimes the burn is burns you, you know, in the wrong way.
[59:29] SPEAKER_01: Alright, so before we before we rate all our weeks, Jackson, just after after this week and knowing what what you've got planned and guessing what Justin's got planned for the next nine weeks, kind of how fit you'll be.
[59:42] SPEAKER_01: Do you think that you get off the bike with Justin or ahead?
[59:49] SPEAKER_01: In Oceanside.
[59:50] SPEAKER_01: Um it's obviously a crapshoot with dynamics and stuff, but I'm gonna say not ahead.
[59:56] SPEAKER_00: Um probably not ahead.
[1:00:00] SPEAKER_00: With, I'm gonna say yes.
[1:00:02] SPEAKER_00: Because I'm gonna have a good swim, and as much as he might be motivated to go off the front, there's no motivation.
[1:00:10] SPEAKER_00: As it's it's impossible to be as motivated as catching the front group.
[1:00:14] SPEAKER_00: It's impossible.
[1:00:15] SPEAKER_00: So if I have a good swim and I'm within a minute, which is where I kind of need to be, I'll get there.
[1:00:20] SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, we'll ride together, we'll like we'll ride together from there.
[1:00:24] SPEAKER_01: That is honestly such a fucking true statement.
[1:00:26] SPEAKER_01: Because I've never caught the front group.
[1:00:27] SPEAKER_02: I know.
[1:00:28] SPEAKER_02: Ari keeps bitching about like I've never caught the front group.
[1:00:31] SPEAKER_02: It's so hard to come from behind.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, it's not.
[1:00:34] SPEAKER_02: You're so motivated.
[1:00:35] SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
[1:00:36] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what I'm if you have no hope of catching the front group and you go to the turnaround, you're like, they're six minutes ahead, then it's just like you're in for a long day.
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_01: I'm saying, you know, and I've caught like the chase group before, and I'm like, oh fuck yeah.
[1:00:50] SPEAKER_01: The front group, I mean, that's just like an absolute cum shot I've been waiting for for for for years now.
[1:00:57] SPEAKER_01: One day it'll happen.
[1:00:59] SPEAKER_01: And I mean, yeah, because going off the front, you're immediately like, oh, I gotta attack, and now I'm being hunted.
[1:01:06] SPEAKER_01: You know, it might be motivating to be like, I'm off the front, but then all of a sudden there's a bit of pressure on you, versus if you catch the front group, and I'm I'm just imagining this, Jackson.
[1:01:14] SPEAKER_01: You've done this many times, so you can say for sure, it must be like you see them, and it's just like whatever you need to do, like you get there.
[1:01:21] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
[1:01:22] SPEAKER_00: It and even like it you see it in the results too, because like um, so Sam and Lionel, for example, swim kind of similar most of the time, but whichever one swims slower than the other always always catches the other one.
[1:01:36] SPEAKER_00: And like, if I swim a little faster than those guys, they always catch me.
[1:01:42] SPEAKER_00: And there's even been times where I've gotten out a little behind Sam, like when I've had a pretty bad swim, we get out together, he has a better transition.
[1:01:49] SPEAKER_00: I always catch him, like it's just it's the way it goes.
[1:01:53] SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's why I think.
[1:01:54] SPEAKER_00: But if I have a bad swim, which is not gonna happen because I'm obsessed with swimming this next eight weeks.
[1:01:59] SPEAKER_00: I'm not kidding.
[1:02:00] SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm basically a swimmer, um, then it would be it would be really hard for me to catch if I if I'm too far back.
[1:02:07] SPEAKER_00: But we also got to see what the draft zone is because if the group dynamic doesn't play in as much, then it can change everything.
[1:02:13] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 20 praying for 20-meter draft, burning for 20-meter draft.
[1:02:16] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, burning for we're all burning for 20 in this rumor is 16.
[1:02:20] SPEAKER_02: Have you guys heard this rumor?
[1:02:22] SPEAKER_01: Wow, I have heard that, but why?
[1:02:23] SPEAKER_01: No, I haven't.
[1:02:24] SPEAKER_01: That'd be fun with that.
[1:02:25] SPEAKER_02: 16.
[1:02:26] SPEAKER_02: Iron Man just going halfway on it.
[1:02:28] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[1:02:29] SPEAKER_02: Half measures.
[1:02:31] SPEAKER_02: Maybe you heard it here first, but I I don't know if there's any truth to that, but that's that is the rumor mill.
[1:02:36] SPEAKER_02: 16 meters.
[1:02:37] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[1:02:37] SPEAKER_01: I mean 20 is kind of made up because it's just the next like round number.
[1:02:41] SPEAKER_01: I guess you could be fifth 15 multiple five.
[1:02:44] SPEAKER_01: 16 I mean it's better.
[1:02:47] SPEAKER_01: It's definitely better.
[1:02:48] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's better.
[1:02:48] SPEAKER_01: It's definitely better than 12, you know.
[1:02:50] SPEAKER_02: For sure.
[1:02:51] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[1:02:52] SPEAKER_01: Um, I trained the least this week.
[1:02:54] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, funny enough.
[1:02:56] SPEAKER_00: R he's a little bitch and he barely trains and he doesn't train hard.
[1:02:59] SPEAKER_00: That's the theme of the week.
[1:03:00] SPEAKER_01: I'm no longer the guy who trains super hard.
[1:03:02] SPEAKER_01: I just do some easy threshold and zone two.
[1:03:05] SPEAKER_01: That's that.
[1:03:06] SPEAKER_01: I trained 24 and a half hours.
[1:03:08] SPEAKER_01: I would say it was a six out of ten difficulty.
[1:03:11] SPEAKER_01: Like, honestly, a lot of the most difficult parts of the week were like the amount of focus required in the swims, and because there were so many swims, there was not that much bike and run.
[1:03:23] SPEAKER_02: That's the most you've had to use your brain since you were a software engineer.
[1:03:26] SPEAKER_01: Yep, pretty much.
[1:03:27] SPEAKER_00: You're giving yourself a six out of ten and you failed one of your workouts.
[1:03:31] SPEAKER_01: It's kind of mental.
[1:03:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but just I mean, just one.
[1:03:34] SPEAKER_01: I feel like it could have been it could have been a lot harder.
[1:03:37] SPEAKER_01: Uh well.
[1:03:39] SPEAKER_01: I feel like it could have been hard.
[1:03:40] SPEAKER_01: I could have failed all the workouts.
[1:03:43] SPEAKER_01: Um, but that was also just that's a personal weakness kind of, and it was one session.
[1:03:48] SPEAKER_01: So uh otherwise the week was really not that crazy hard.
[1:03:52] SPEAKER_01: And that was literally the last session of the week.
[1:03:53] SPEAKER_00: So and you also gave yourself an eight out of ten for execution when you failed one of the workouts.
[1:03:59] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the only thing that didn't go to plan.
[1:04:01] SPEAKER_02: So otherwise every other swim, every other swim rep was executed flawlessly, Ari.
[1:04:06] SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, to the best of my to the best of my ability, yeah.
[1:04:10] SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any like sinkers.
[1:04:13] SPEAKER_01: Um the run workouts were fine, the other bikes were fine.
[1:04:16] SPEAKER_01: Uh I'd say yeah, it was a solid week.
[1:04:18] SPEAKER_01: Aside, yeah, yeah.
[1:04:19] SPEAKER_02: All right.
[1:04:20] SPEAKER_02: I was 26 and a half hours.
[1:04:22] SPEAKER_02: Uh it's my third week in a row of what I'll call big volume.
[1:04:25] SPEAKER_02: Ari would call it little guy volume, but medium volume, moderate volume.
[1:04:29] SPEAKER_02: I I'm doing big hours.
[1:04:31] SPEAKER_02: I've like never done over 20.
[1:04:33] SPEAKER_02: Last year, my biggest week was 24, and I just did three weeks at that volume.
[1:04:37] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, last week you said you've never done two weeks so big.
[1:04:40] SPEAKER_01: Do you have a job still or what?
[1:04:41] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what's going on with that?
[1:04:42] SPEAKER_02: I do have a job still, but this week was obviously uh yes, I have a job, senior director of marketing.
[1:04:48] SPEAKER_02: I work full time.
[1:04:49] SPEAKER_02: Next week I have an on-site in uh San Mateo.
[1:04:52] SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be in a hotel for three three days straight.
[1:04:54] SPEAKER_02: So you guys will get to hear more about that in two weeks.
[1:04:57] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, this week was uh, you know, I basically train every morning and every night and all day Saturday and all day Sunday, and it added up to 26 and a half hours when you're on the bike all day Saturday and all day Sunday.
[1:05:08] SPEAKER_01: So that's true.
[1:05:09] SPEAKER_02: And you bonk an hour eight on Saturday.
[1:05:11] SPEAKER_02: Um I gave myself a nine out of ten difficulty week.
[1:05:14] SPEAKER_02: It was it was pretty hard.
[1:05:15] SPEAKER_02: I mean it was hard.
[1:05:17] SPEAKER_02: And this one is interesting.
[1:05:18] SPEAKER_02: I'm curious for your guys' take on this.
[1:05:20] SPEAKER_02: It wasn't that hard objectively, but it was hard because it was week three of three really big weeks.
[1:05:24] SPEAKER_02: So every day was a grind starting Monday, way more so than the previous weeks, even though the sessions themselves weren't particularly difficult.
[1:05:32] SPEAKER_02: But I did do a 7,000 meter swim on Tuesday, and then I like failed to fully execute my run workout later that day, and then had to like nap.
[1:05:41] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I don't know, it was just a grind to get through the week.
[1:05:45] SPEAKER_02: So I called it a nine out of ten, and then I bonked on Saturday off the bike and I rode really far.
[1:05:49] SPEAKER_01: So you you want me to give you one piece of advice on uh on just how to get better at triathlon?
[1:05:55] SPEAKER_01: You mentioned it's week three of training hard, as if you're coming up to some sort of lower rest week.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_01: The trick is just fucking plow right through.
[1:06:03] SPEAKER_01: Just keep going.
[1:06:04] SPEAKER_01: 27 hours next week.
[1:06:05] SPEAKER_01: Do not stop under any circumstances.
[1:06:08] SPEAKER_01: Just keep fucking going.
[1:06:10] SPEAKER_00: He's trying to eliminate one of his competitors for this bet.
[1:06:12] SPEAKER_00: We've got to do that.
[1:06:13] SPEAKER_01: No, it's the song, Training Through Overtraining.
[1:06:15] SPEAKER_01: A great man once wrote a song called Training Through Overtraining.
[1:06:18] SPEAKER_02: It's our it's it's the secret to Ari's success in 2023 and 2024.
[1:06:23] SPEAKER_02: Yep.
[1:06:26] SPEAKER_02: Um no, I mean there's some truth to that.
[1:06:29] SPEAKER_02: Like I have tomorrow off completely.
[1:06:31] SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be my first off day of 2026, and then like I'm gonna try to get right back into it and do a monster weekend.
[1:06:38] SPEAKER_02: But I do need to respect the fact that I woke up with like super puffy cheeks today and just like it looks like he went out drinking all weekend, to be honest.
[1:06:45] SPEAKER_00: If you guys I can't see it.
[1:06:46] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you look horrible.
[1:06:47] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you look like super ideal stuff.
[1:06:50] SPEAKER_02: I rode 40 minutes at like 390 average yesterday.
[1:06:54] SPEAKER_02: Like it was the hardest bike ride of my life, and I woke up this morning and I swam 6,000 long course meters.
[1:06:59] SPEAKER_02: So and it sucked, and it was slow.
[1:07:02] SPEAKER_02: It was 10, 400s.
[1:07:03] SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
[1:07:04] SPEAKER_02: Here I am doing the triathlon thing.
[1:07:06] SPEAKER_02: I was on six hours of zoom calls today, and this is my break, and back to calls after this.
[1:07:11] SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk to the real high volume guy.
[1:07:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:07:14] SPEAKER_02: Jackson motherfucking Cozumel laundry.
[1:07:17] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was really wanting to get the 30 hours, but unfortunately 29 hours and seven minutes.
[1:07:23] SPEAKER_00: So much strength week?
[1:07:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, 53 minutes.
[1:07:26] SPEAKER_00: That doesn't count any strength.
[1:07:28] SPEAKER_00: How many curls?
[1:07:29] SPEAKER_00: It counts no strength.
[1:07:30] SPEAKER_00: I did only like 35 minutes of strength, so I wasn't even over 30 with the strength.
[1:07:36] SPEAKER_00: Uh but, anyways, seven out of seven and a half out of ten on the difficulty.
[1:07:41] SPEAKER_00: Um although I should probably be honestly eight because I did do four bike workouts with quality that week.
[1:07:50] SPEAKER_00: Like not none of them were super long or crazy, but there was just quite a few hard rides.
[1:07:55] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then swim and run were pretty much normal.
[1:07:59] SPEAKER_00: Like they would have been like seven out of ten each, and then if the bike's nine, then okay, eight.
[1:08:04] SPEAKER_00: Close enough.
[1:08:05] SPEAKER_00: Eight out of ten for difficulty, eight and a half out of ten for execution.
[1:08:09] SPEAKER_00: Um half points.
[1:08:11] SPEAKER_00: No half points here.
[1:08:12] SPEAKER_00: Okay, nine then.
[1:08:14] SPEAKER_00: Uh it went, I didn't do anything wrong.
[1:08:16] SPEAKER_00: I'm actually super happy with how the week went.
[1:08:19] SPEAKER_00: I just I can't give myself a ten unless I'm like showing great fitness.
[1:08:24] SPEAKER_00: Like, it's it's weird, even though I'm executing great.
[1:08:28] SPEAKER_00: They're gonna start to be some nines and maybe tens later if the fitness is showing, because then I know that what I think was great execution actually was earlier in the um series.
[1:08:38] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we'll see.
[1:08:39] SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, at this point, I'll take it.
[1:08:43] SPEAKER_00: It was a good week, and I'll be much lower this next week.
[1:08:46] SPEAKER_00: Not crazy lower though.
[1:08:48] SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I think I'm a high volume guy now, so I'm just gonna plow right through.
[1:08:52] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 35 next week.
[1:08:54] SPEAKER_01: Or don't come on the podcast.
[1:08:55] SPEAKER_00: Oh, we'll see.
[1:08:56] SPEAKER_00: We'll see what that already.
[1:08:57] SPEAKER_00: You can start making those kinds of demands when when maybe when you win the series, if you do, which I don't think's gonna happen.
[1:09:03] SPEAKER_00: But in any case, about the series, before we we move on too much, it looks like we got Greg and Apple like throwing you know, you know, throwing shade at us on the main podcast about who's gonna win this, who's gonna win this this uh this race.
[1:09:18] SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't I didn't hear this.
[1:09:20] SPEAKER_00: What's uh what's the news?
[1:09:21] SPEAKER_00: I know I haven't listened yet.
[1:09:22] SPEAKER_00: Well I just mean like a little bit of a little bit of chirping going on.
[1:09:26] SPEAKER_00: Um nothing too nothing too bad, but I mean do we need to involve those guys?
[1:09:32] SPEAKER_00: Like uh Greg, you know, he he he's he's thinking he's gonna have a chance.
[1:09:37] SPEAKER_00: Apple the legend, like I don't know.
[1:09:39] SPEAKER_00: I feel like we need to keep it all between us, but those guys are start of it's gonna be all five of us racing, so that's kind of interesting that uh we have the whole men's field on the podcast.
[1:09:49] SPEAKER_00: We could have a little we could have a little team dynamic going on.
[1:09:52] SPEAKER_01: Does Greg win the age group field though?
[1:09:54] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's true.
[1:09:55] SPEAKER_02: Will Greg beat my amateur course record?
[1:09:59] SPEAKER_02: I don't think he will.
[1:10:00] SPEAKER_01: What is it?
[1:10:01] SPEAKER_01: 401.
[1:10:02] SPEAKER_02: I'll put$100 on that.
[1:10:04] SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
[1:10:05] SPEAKER_02: 401, I think.
[1:10:07] SPEAKER_00: Oh if you really believed it, you'd put more than that.
[1:10:11] SPEAKER_00: I I guess you're just trying to put something that Greg can afford.
[1:10:14] SPEAKER_01: I believe in Greg.
[1:10:16] SPEAKER_01: Greg is better.
[1:10:17] SPEAKER_01: Greg is better than everyone gives him credit for.
[1:10:18] SPEAKER_01: He's been he's been grinding behind the scenes.
[1:10:21] SPEAKER_01: I know he has.
[1:10:22] SPEAKER_01: Given his persona.
[1:10:23] SPEAKER_02: We wrote really we rode together three weeks ago and he wrote great.
[1:10:26] SPEAKER_02: So and the kid knows how to swim.
[1:10:29] SPEAKER_00: Who that's a good that's a good point, though.
[1:10:31] SPEAKER_00: Like, who of those guys, like do you if if Apo was in here, would you guys be confident you could beat him, or is he like too much of a legend?
[1:10:39] SPEAKER_00: You beat him last year, Ari.
[1:10:40] SPEAKER_00: Dude, you're the course record holder.
[1:10:42] SPEAKER_00: We're gonna make a bet against you.
[1:10:43] SPEAKER_02: I'm asking you.
[1:10:43] SPEAKER_02: I don't believe we can beat Apo.
[1:10:45] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I believe I can definitely beat Apo on the right day.
[1:10:47] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I need I it comes down to dynamics for me and how I swim.
[1:10:52] SPEAKER_01: Um I again, I would need the right day.
[1:10:55] SPEAKER_01: And uh pro I just need the race to unfold properly.
[1:11:00] SPEAKER_01: Dude, you just said so many fucking buzzwords, just make it fucking happen.
[1:11:03] SPEAKER_02: Every that's like every race.
[1:11:05] SPEAKER_01: Whatever, dude.
[1:11:06] SPEAKER_01: All right, yeah, every fucking day.
[1:11:08] SPEAKER_02: I would just need the right day to unfold, and the race dynamics would have to get like no fuck all that.
[1:11:15] SPEAKER_01: And I need to execute my race plan to yes.
[1:11:19] SPEAKER_01: But it's I mean, they're they're uh what are they called?
[1:11:24] SPEAKER_02: You need to swim, bike, and run fucking faster and stronger and better and not be soft and just be way better, you know, be the fastest and strongest person.
[1:11:32] SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, there's some race dynamics and shit, but like you think Lionel like wins races by like thinking that way?
[1:11:38] SPEAKER_02: No way.
[1:11:39] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's facts.
[1:11:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, vintage Lionel just doesn't give a fuck.
[1:11:42] SPEAKER_00: He just bikes us so hard he gets to the front.
[1:11:44] SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be you, Ari.
[1:11:46] SPEAKER_02: You bike as hard as you can until you reach the front, and then you're the you know you're the best runner in the field and you win the fucking race.
[1:11:51] SPEAKER_02: That's how you're gonna win races.
[1:11:52] SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah.
[1:11:53] SPEAKER_02: Not waiting for the race to unfold.
[1:11:55] SPEAKER_02: Look at me, just imagine you're like, oh yeah.
[1:11:58] SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
[1:11:58] SPEAKER_02: Daydreaming.
[1:12:03] SPEAKER_02: No, I think all three of us could beat Apo and Greg.
[1:12:05] SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go out and say that.
[1:12:06] SPEAKER_01: Let's get some Spotify comments going.
[1:12:08] SPEAKER_01: Let's explain.
[1:12:09] SPEAKER_02: We gotta have some kind of a bet.
[1:12:11] SPEAKER_02: Fuck those guys.
[1:12:12] SPEAKER_02: Just think about this.
[1:12:13] SPEAKER_02: The Triathon Hour podcast, what's in their running sheet?
[1:12:16] SPEAKER_02: Talking about pretender and contender, talking about T100 series, talking about the drama, this and that, Hayden Wiles running shoes.
[1:12:24] SPEAKER_02: We're out here grinding, we're out here talking about training with our own training and getting better.
[1:12:30] SPEAKER_00: Apo trains like 14 hours a week.
[1:12:32] SPEAKER_00: Greg, maybe like 15.
[1:12:34] SPEAKER_00: We're gonna crush those guys.
[1:12:35] SPEAKER_00: I like it.
[1:12:36] SPEAKER_00: We gotta babies.
[1:12:37] SPEAKER_00: We don't have babies, they have kids.
[1:12:39] SPEAKER_01: Dude, dad strength and Jack Kelly cult is is that's two things you guys don't have.
[1:12:44] SPEAKER_01: That's true.
[1:12:44] SPEAKER_01: So you gotta be you've gotta be looking out for.
[1:12:46] SPEAKER_00: But but you're if you're on our team, you've got the Jack Kelly cult.
[1:12:49] SPEAKER_00: So we've got it all.
[1:12:50] SPEAKER_01: That it is working in your favor if it's a team race, but all right.
[1:12:54] SPEAKER_00: Well, put it down in the comments.
[1:12:55] SPEAKER_00: What should this bet?
[1:12:56] SPEAKER_00: We have no idea.
[1:12:57] SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know if we should evolve Greg and Sam because they've they've got enough on their their plate.
[1:13:03] SPEAKER_00: But in any case, I'm gonna finish first out of all five of us, so it doesn't really matter to me what we do, and uh it'll be good times.
[1:13:11] SPEAKER_00: Alright.
[1:13:11] SPEAKER_02: And with that, we will see you next week, week four.
[1:13:14] SPEAKER_02: Peace out.
[1:13:15] SPEAKER_02: Peace.

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