# Jackie Hering!!!!

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 19 Jun 2025, 1 h 07 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698054-jackie-hering.mp3

Fresh off winning Ironman Cairns Jackie Hering joins us to talk all about the race, her year so far, her training, her tough decision to change coaches, how her training used to look vs how it has been this year and lots more. Sign up to Patreon Here - Patreon link Pillar Performance - Pillar Performance Link + TTH15 - 15% off site-wide for first time users Precision Fuel & Hydration - Precision Link use TTH25 for 15% off your first order (or find the code for 20% off all orders on Patreon)

## Transcript

[0:29] SPEAKER_00: Jackie Herring, fresh off winning Iron Man Cans on the weekend.
[0:33] SPEAKER_00: Well done for that, by the way.
[0:34] SPEAKER_00: It's good to talk to you.
[0:35] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me on, Jack.
[0:37] SPEAKER_02: It's my first time on your pod, so thanks for the invite.
[0:42] SPEAKER_00: We've talked about it in the past.
[0:43] SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just taken us a while.
[0:45] SPEAKER_00: And I think this is a pretty fitting time.
[0:46] SPEAKER_00: You know, you've you've kind of had one of the biggest wins of your career on the weekend, maybe second behind Iron Man Hamburg.
[0:52] SPEAKER_00: Um, and I want to ask you about your decision to race cans.
[0:55] SPEAKER_00: It seemed like a pretty last-minute decision.
[0:57] SPEAKER_00: Was that how it actually played out?
[0:59] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:00] SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of people were asking me about it as like the start list was released, and I was on the start list.
[1:06] SPEAKER_02: They released it the week of Hamburg.
[1:09] SPEAKER_02: So everybody was like, Oh my gosh, are you doing two Iron Man's?
[1:12] SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No way, I'm not going to Australia.
[1:16] SPEAKER_02: It was a hundred percent kind of just as backup because um I figured what mattered to me most this year was trying to do the whole pro series.
[1:26] SPEAKER_02: So I just needed to have this Iron Man on reserve just in case something happened in Hamburg.
[1:33] SPEAKER_02: So, yes, it was when I was standing on the side of the road in Hamburg, the idea came in my head that okay, it's not like the end of my pro series campaign.
[1:43] SPEAKER_02: I still have one more shot.
[1:45] SPEAKER_02: And it really didn't take too long mentally to get around to this new plan.
[1:51] SPEAKER_02: It was um, well, despite the idea of the logistics of travel, it was actually a pretty easy idea to just kind of train a little bit more and just kind of roll the dice and see what was gonna happen.
[2:05] SPEAKER_00: And for people who don't know a lot about your career, when I said that Iron Man Hamburg was potentially the best win of your career, that was last year at Ironman Hamburg.
[2:13] SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this year you had the issues.
[2:15] SPEAKER_00: Prior to that, you I think I I should have fact-checked this.
[2:18] SPEAKER_00: This is the problem with not fact-checking, but I don't think you'd won an Iron Man for like over a decade until Iron Man Hamburg last year, right?
[2:24] SPEAKER_00: Maybe like 2012, 2013.
[2:26] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
[2:27] SPEAKER_00: Uh Wisconsin?
[2:28] SPEAKER_00: Was that the last one?
[2:29] SPEAKER_02: That's right, my home state.
[2:31] SPEAKER_02: So just the I'll give the super quick backstory, which is I've been racing professional triathlon since 2011.
[2:40] SPEAKER_02: In my early years, I just raced a whole ton of Ironmans.
[2:44] SPEAKER_02: I did something like 24 Ironmans.
[2:47] SPEAKER_02: And this all all before having children.
[2:50] SPEAKER_02: So this is like in my 20s.
[2:53] SPEAKER_02: And during that time, I managed to somehow win Iron Man Wisconsin.
[2:59] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that was back in 2013.
[3:01] SPEAKER_02: So then I had kids just race, just race half Iron Man's, and Hamburg last year was my first Iron Man after a nine-year break.
[3:11] SPEAKER_02: So I had very no like no expectations at all for that race.
[3:18] SPEAKER_02: I was not targeting any specific times.
[3:22] SPEAKER_02: I had no clue.
[3:23] SPEAKER_02: I hadn't even calculated what pace would equal what marathon time.
[3:29] SPEAKER_02: I had I was just fully going out on exploration mission at that race.
[3:35] SPEAKER_02: And it worked out super well, and I went a super fast time that I never thought I'd be able to go.
[3:42] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that was that.
[3:45] SPEAKER_02: So that was definitely probably my biggest win because it was European champs and um a lot of people were there.
[3:54] SPEAKER_00: Everyone was there, yeah.
[3:55] SPEAKER_00: Kat was there, Als was there, Danielle Blimal, Finala Langridge, Alz Vissa, everyone.
[4:00] SPEAKER_00: Meyer was there.
[4:01] SPEAKER_00: It was a stacked field.
[4:02] SPEAKER_00: And I just say that because um I think it's worth noting that this version of you isn't like, isn't the version of you that I've known for the pretty much the entire time I've been following your career.
[4:13] SPEAKER_00: I like I don't know how to say this without sounding disrespectful.
[4:17] SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm gonna risk sounding disrespectful.
[4:19] SPEAKER_00: In my eyes, you'd become like this really likable, almost journeyman triathlete who was just doing 70.3s, T100, and I was like, maybe Jackie is not that far off retiring.
[4:33] SPEAKER_00: Like, maybe her best is kind of getting behind her.
[4:35] SPEAKER_00: And then last year you made the decision to go back to the full distance, one Hamburg, second at Placid, which by the way, I thought was a super uh impressive performance, and now you've won Cairns.
[4:45] SPEAKER_00: So you've just had like three of probably the most impressive performances of your career in the last 12 months, and you came top ten at world championships in Nice last year.
[4:54] SPEAKER_00: You've like it the the the switch around has been crazy, and then leading into Cairns, when when I was saw that you were definitely going to be on the start line, I was like, oh, Jackie just wins this uh by however much she wants.
[5:05] SPEAKER_00: Like this is an easy day out for Jackie.
[5:07] SPEAKER_00: Like that turnaround is is insane.
[5:10] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think I've known about myself mostly that I am better or I would be better at Iron Man, but it it got to be such a mode with the 70.3s that once I figured out how to run fast um and I had small children, it was just the most like time and money efficient thing to be doing was to be racing 70.3s because you don't have to train insane hours.
[5:39] SPEAKER_02: It's still good prize money.
[5:41] SPEAKER_02: And if you can run quick, you can do well, generally at 70.3s.
[5:46] SPEAKER_02: So it's just been really fun, honestly, to get to get to come back to the full Iron Man's, which was the reason I started this sport in the first place.
[5:56] SPEAKER_02: So I think what we're what I'm feeling and what what we're seeing now is that I just really enjoy this distance.
[6:05] SPEAKER_02: I just really love getting out there and and getting to the point where it gets real hard and real grindy.
[6:14] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, at Cannes, it I didn't have to go to like the absolute depths of my soul, which I kind of appreciated actually, because I um I had to go deep down in Hamburg last year, which was fun and really rewarding, but also it takes a lot more out of you.
[6:33] SPEAKER_02: So for Cans, um I got to spend some time with the girls on the bike.
[6:39] SPEAKER_02: That was a lot of fun.
[6:40] SPEAKER_02: And then on the run, it was, you know, I I tried to get to the front fairly quick, and then from there just kind of keep it steady and keep it under control.
[6:50] SPEAKER_02: Once I knew the gap was kind of going out, I went into like some type of like maintenance mode, take care of my body, and truly just like be there and and enjoy it the best I could.
[7:07] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's nothing to say that, you know, I wasn't thinking about the other women because especially Hannah and Lottie, those are I think two of the more experienced and really tough late ladies at Iron Man.
[7:21] SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, neither of them are ever gonna quit.
[7:24] SPEAKER_02: They're they're two girls that uh they're not having any like mental problems during the running portion.
[7:32] SPEAKER_02: Like once they're going, they're just gonna run the whole way at whatever pace they're doing.
[7:36] SPEAKER_02: So I just need to make sure that I was running a little bit quicker than they were.
[7:41] SPEAKER_02: So that's that's kind of what I got up to uh over in Cairns.
[7:46] SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to go a bit deeper about the race in a bit, and I'll ask lots and lots of questions about it so that we can almost uh live vicariously through you in the race, and um and then we're gonna do some deep diving into your training after that.
[7:59] SPEAKER_00: But let's just circle back for a little bit to when you were standing on the side of the road in Hamburg at Iron Man Hamburg before this race.
[8:05] SPEAKER_00: You said that's when you decided to do Iron Man Cairns.
[8:08] SPEAKER_00: Uh A, can you tell me what happened in Iron Man Hamburg?
[8:12] SPEAKER_00: And then B, once once you make that decision to do Cairns, what happens between Hamburg and Cairns?
[8:19] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so in Hamburg, I came out with the Front Girls on the Swim, and which was Kat Solving and Laura Phillip.
[8:29] SPEAKER_02: And in my mind, I was like, all right, I just want to see what it feels like if I can bike with them or or what.
[8:37] SPEAKER_02: And very, very quickly, I mean like nearly immediately, I realized it was not in my best interest to try and be riding with them.
[8:48] SPEAKER_02: So I set out on my own mission, and luckily I I had a nice uh plan of what power to do.
[8:58] SPEAKER_02: So I was just riding my own ride, and in that race, I knew a bunch of Europeans would be coming from behind, which is a great thing about racing in Europe, is there's generally a lot more weaker swimmers who are insane on the bike.
[9:13] SPEAKER_02: So there's always a nice fallback there.
[9:15] SPEAKER_02: So I was just riding along and Marjolaine came by, and she must have been doing quite an effort when she came by me because there was there she went.
[9:26] SPEAKER_02: Um, and I said, Oh shoot, missed that one.
[9:28] SPEAKER_02: And the next people up was the um Els Visser, Ann Reichmann and Sarah Spenx train.
[9:37] SPEAKER_02: And El is a friend of mine, and she came by.
[9:40] SPEAKER_02: She said, Oh, come on, Jackie, like get on the train or whatever.
[9:43] SPEAKER_02: I said, Oh, thank goodness for the invite.
[9:46] SPEAKER_02: So hopped on with them.
[9:48] SPEAKER_02: And it was it was quite hard for a bit.
[9:51] SPEAKER_02: Um we it was I was at the very back, and it was 220 to 230 watts just to sit at the back of that group because I think they really, really wanted to catch the front.
[10:05] SPEAKER_02: So I was going good and it settled down a little bit.
[10:08] SPEAKER_02: Right when it kind of started to settle, um, I heard kind of my tire pop.
[10:16] SPEAKER_02: I had just gotten new tires.
[10:18] SPEAKER_02: I had loads of sealant in there.
[10:20] SPEAKER_02: So I was like, all right, it's gonna seal, like, no worries.
[10:24] SPEAKER_02: So I kept on riding with them, and pretty soon I could feel I thought it was the front one because I felt sealant spraying me, and I think it was the front one, but that one sealed.
[10:34] SPEAKER_02: Well, I looked back because I was feeling it squishy, and it was actually the back one that was still spraying sealant, not sealing at all.
[10:42] SPEAKER_02: So that's when I pulled over, which was quite a hard decision because I did not want to lose touch with those girls.
[10:49] SPEAKER_02: Um so I pulled over and I, you know, got the whole CO2 went in it, and it was um still squirting out like quite a lot.
[11:02] SPEAKER_02: It was a really big cut.
[11:04] SPEAKER_02: So uh, I wanted it to seal so bad, so I was like shoving chunks of dirt in it to try and get it to like um, I don't know, like the sealant would have something to like stick to.
[11:17] SPEAKER_02: I was trying to like close it with a little stick.
[11:20] SPEAKER_02: I didn't have a plug or anything.
[11:22] SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what I was trying to make it work, so you just do anything in that situation though, and your brain's not like you like Lionel says, you like the cog your cognitive function is not always the best at that point.
[11:34] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[11:34] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had no no other thing to do.
[11:37] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it it seemed like and the roads were wet because it had been raining all morning.
[11:44] SPEAKER_02: So I dried it, shoved the dirt in, shoved the stick on it.
[11:48] SPEAKER_02: I was like, all right, this is my only shot, I gotta go, because it was holding for a second.
[11:52] SPEAKER_02: So I started riding, and it was only a few more miles.
[11:56] SPEAKER_02: I saw Mark Matthews on the side of the road.
[11:59] SPEAKER_02: I go, Is my tire squishy?
[12:01] SPEAKER_02: And he was like, it's good.
[12:02] SPEAKER_02: And then he was like, he yells as he saw me go by.
[12:05] SPEAKER_02: He's like, it's a little squishy.
[12:07] SPEAKER_02: So I could feel it another mile later.
[12:11] SPEAKER_02: It was nearly completely flat.
[12:15] SPEAKER_02: But this was the point in the course where we're getting back into the city.
[12:18] SPEAKER_02: So I thought, surely I will see.
[12:22] SPEAKER_02: They told us we were gonna have like a mechanic moto.
[12:26] SPEAKER_02: I thought, surely I'll see this moto, or you know, something that can help me.
[12:32] SPEAKER_02: Well, I ended up riding it flat for almost 20 miles and saw nothing.
[12:39] SPEAKER_02: Nobody, nothing to help, but I had committed mentally to ride to special needs, which was at uh 100k or so.
[12:48] SPEAKER_02: So I got to special needs where I had more supplies to try and fix it.
[12:52] SPEAKER_02: And I got there and you know, got the stuff out and inspected my tire and just found that there was a few of these like cuts in my tire, and they were just too big.
[13:06] SPEAKER_02: I chucked the other CO2 in there just to see, and there was no sealant left inside, and all the air went out immediately.
[13:14] SPEAKER_02: So I obviously don't carry a tire.
[13:17] SPEAKER_02: So that was the end of that.
[13:19] SPEAKER_02: And at that point, I I just said, okay, that's done, and tried to get a hold of my husband and let him know I needed a ride home, pretty much.
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: And then you you decided at that point I'm gonna go and do Iron Man Cans?
[13:34] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, when I called him on the volunteer's phone, of course, I was like, I had my moment of sadness because honestly, I was in really good shape.
[13:44] SPEAKER_02: My prep had gone great.
[13:45] SPEAKER_02: I thought I I had good legs, I was about to be having a really good day.
[13:49] SPEAKER_02: So I had to like real quickly mourn that loss of that possible experience.
[13:56] SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, he's like, it's fine, there's other opportunities.
[14:01] SPEAKER_02: And then right then I was like, okay, um, yeah, like there are other opportunities.
[14:07] SPEAKER_02: And then by the time he picked me up, which was not not long, um, we were pretty much like, okay, how are we gonna figure out how to make this Australia thing happen?
[14:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so okay, and then when you when you weigh all of this up, you go, okay, there's the travel from Europe to America to Australia.
[14:26] SPEAKER_00: The field looks relatively comfortable compared to most fields, but I still don't think it's a certainty that I'm gonna win.
[14:32] SPEAKER_00: It's just maybe a little bit easier than some other ones.
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: I need my Kona slot, plus I need these these um I Man Pro Series points.
[14:40] SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a no-brainer at the end, and then you make that decision.
[14:43] SPEAKER_00: What from there?
[14:44] SPEAKER_00: So you get home, talk to me about between then and and then when you start the race, uh, everything that's gone on.
[14:50] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so even before I got home, um, Iron Man came up at the race, the like operations person came up and talked to me and said, Hey, we know that a group, um, believe it or not, they thought climate activists had been chucking glass onto the course and asked me where my flat was.
[15:14] SPEAKER_02: And they said, Oh gosh, that's the area, and they had police out there.
[15:18] SPEAKER_02: So Iron Man was aware that there was this situation going on.
[15:22] SPEAKER_02: Sarah Spence had a flat, Ann Reichman had a puncture that sealed up.
[15:27] SPEAKER_02: Like, there was a situation.
[15:29] SPEAKER_02: So I had that in my mind.
[15:30] SPEAKER_02: So I said, you know what?
[15:32] SPEAKER_02: Um Iron Man like feels bad about this.
[15:38] SPEAKER_02: They're gonna like they're gonna want me to like go do this Iron Man in Australia.
[15:46] SPEAKER_02: So I pretty much emailed it last minute, like, hey, any help you can give me, like, can you put me up in a hotel?
[15:54] SPEAKER_02: Any of that type of stuff?
[15:55] SPEAKER_02: And you know, because every bit makes a difference when you're traveling across the whole entire world.
[16:01] SPEAKER_02: So luckily they were able to help me out a little bit, and and that made it, that was all before leaving Hamburg that we kind of like started sorting through these logistics.
[16:12] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I was emailing sponsors and people, you know, just trying to see like what type of help I could get to get me out there.
[16:21] SPEAKER_02: So luckily that all kind of lined up pretty well, and by the time we were home, I was like having my flights booked and figuring out how to break the news to the kids and and all that.
[16:39] SPEAKER_02: So the rough part was my bike got stuck at my layover in Finland and it only made it back, it it was stuck there for like three days.
[16:52] SPEAKER_02: So in between, like I got home, I think, on a Tuesday, and I was planning to leave on Monday for Australia, and my bike didn't get back until Friday night.
[17:05] SPEAKER_02: So I got one ride on my tri-bike in between Hamburg and leaving for Australia, um, which didn't stress me out too bad.
[17:15] SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to make sure it was working, I guess.
[17:18] SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, it was it was cutting it a little close.
[17:23] SPEAKER_00: That's just so annoying about that glass.
[17:25] SPEAKER_00: Like, if that's if that is how that happened, if you've traveled from America to Europe for you for this race and some people have put glass on the course, and that's how you got a flat that like ruins your race.
[17:35] SPEAKER_00: That's just so unbelievable.
[17:37] SPEAKER_00: Isn't that terrible?
[17:38] SPEAKER_00: It just seems pointless.
[17:39] SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's gonna affect like yeah.
[17:42] SPEAKER_02: I need their contact information to tell them what kind of carbon footprint I had to do because they chucked glass on the course.
[17:50] SPEAKER_02: Now I had to fly all the way here.
[17:54] SPEAKER_03: Really anti-climate.
[17:58] SPEAKER_00: Oh, they probably just have so many cycling races and that over there that they just do it for every every time there's like a cycling race in town, including a triathlon, which is probably just the unfortunate victim of of cycling, because they I don't know, they're probably thinking thousands of people flying for cycling races and stuff, and you've just fallen victim to that.
[18:15] SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think iron like Iron Man has their flaws, but I don't think they're really contributing that heavy to to climate change, especially considering it's a sport that promotes people getting out and being active and running and cycling.
[18:26] SPEAKER_00: So they're probably you know, the average Tri-League probably uses their car less than the the average nine to five off office worker.
[18:32] SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, seems uh seems a little a little off, but anyway, what can you do?
[18:36] SPEAKER_00: It happened.
[18:37] SPEAKER_00: And then you you you fly out to Australia, like the whatever it is, sixteen, seventeen hours of flying for you, probably to Australia and and you get and you get out here.
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: How did you feel?
[18:47] SPEAKER_02: Uh um well, I slept pretty good on the plane.
[18:51] SPEAKER_02: I I got out in the evening and pretty much had some dinner and was ready to go straight to bed again.
[18:59] SPEAKER_02: So I felt I felt okay.
[19:02] SPEAKER_02: I was I was fine.
[19:04] SPEAKER_02: I try not to overthink things like you know, out out in Cairns, Matthew Marcourt was making a big deal about how many hours of travel.
[19:13] SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't dare add up how many hours of travel I did.
[19:17] SPEAKER_02: Like that would mess with my mind.
[19:19] SPEAKER_02: So I just pretended like I just had to sleep in a different location with a bunch of people around me, and then there I was in Australia.
[19:30] SPEAKER_02: So I was trying really hard to feel as normal as possible.
[19:35] SPEAKER_02: But I had some dinner and went to bed the first night and had like verbally committed how people do at dinner to random things, um, verbally committed to jumping on a 6 a.m.
[19:48] SPEAKER_02: ferry out to do this green island, this swim on an island because I had never been to Australia and I thought, wow, I'm here.
[19:59] SPEAKER_02: I have to go see the Great Barrier Reef.
[20:02] SPEAKER_02: So uh that that was the start of my trip as I just got straight to it.
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[21:43] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's get into the race.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've got all the backstory we need now to paint the picture.
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: And you get out there, like you talked about, you you most definitely weren't cherry picking, and that was actually that that word has way more negative connotation than maybe I'm giving it credit for.
[21:57] SPEAKER_00: But I think the takeaway point is that you in my Opinion are the class of this field.
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: And probably, you know, it would be a pretty big upset if you lost this race, I think, in most people's eyes.
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: And uh really there's a there's a small group of of women who can be competitive on the day.
[22:12] SPEAKER_00: So it's yourself, Hannah Berry, Lottie Wilms, Penny Slater, Regan Holyoke, maybe Kylie Simpson.
[22:18] SPEAKER_00: Although I think maybe with the way bike biking's going now, she I mean, like r with her swim, it's just so hard to come back into a race when you're like 15 to 20 minutes down.
[22:27] SPEAKER_00: So maybe there's like five people who can be really competitive in this race.
[22:31] SPEAKER_00: Did you look at the start line beforehand and do you think about that kind of thing?
[22:36] SPEAKER_00: Like, do you think about tactics before the race, or when it comes to an Iron Man like that, are you kind of just we'll get out there, we'll start the swim and we'll see what happens?
[22:44] SPEAKER_02: Well, I I do spend a fair bit of time thinking about tactics for any race that I do.
[22:50] SPEAKER_02: Um and for this one, I was especially interested in having company on the bike ride because I didn't have any time to see any of the bike course.
[23:02] SPEAKER_02: So I knew there was a little bit of climbing and a little bit of kind of like twisty turny bits.
[23:09] SPEAKER_02: And I thought it would be in my interest to have somebody in front of me to make that go a little quicker.
[23:15] SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you know, the first time you're on a descent that's got curves, you're not going very fast.
[23:21] SPEAKER_02: So I thought Regan was gonna be a good ally for me.
[23:26] SPEAKER_02: I didn't know how close I'd be to Hannah Berry, but I thought kind of Regan was the one I kind of targeted to try and be with on the swim, and that worked out um pretty good.
[23:37] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so she was with on the bike, and by the time we got to the climb and the technical part, we had caught Hannah.
[23:45] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that was that was a good good part of the race to have them with.
[23:51] SPEAKER_00: And then for the whole race, it was basically yourself, uh Hannah Berry and Regan Holyoke.
[23:57] SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously that shifted a little bit towards the end of the ride and start of the run, but you guys were chasing Rebecca Clark and Lottie Wilms out in front.
[24:05] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then ultimately into T2, Lottie Wilms had like a two, bit over two-minute lead um on yourself and that uh you and Hannah Berry.
[24:13] SPEAKER_00: And then uh and then when you exit T2, she had like a I don't know, it didn't look like much to me, like 15-second lead or something like that.
[24:21] SPEAKER_00: So she's given up the better part of two minutes in transition.
[24:24] SPEAKER_00: What was going through your head at that time?
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: Did you understand what was happening?
[24:28] SPEAKER_02: Well, Hannah actually broke away the last bit of the bike, so she came in in second, uh, possibly like a minute ahead of me and Regan.
[24:38] SPEAKER_02: That wasn't necessarily something I would have I would rather come in with her, but I was at the back and she started to go and Regan didn't go with her, and I didn't feel like using any energy at that point.
[24:49] SPEAKER_02: Um I was aware that I didn't know how far ahead Lottie was.
[24:55] SPEAKER_02: I figured it wasn't much more than three minutes.
[24:59] SPEAKER_02: So I just had that in my mind, but I didn't quite know the gap until we got out to the first kind of out and back section.
[25:05] SPEAKER_02: That's where I was able to see that Lottie was still a little bit ahead.
[25:10] SPEAKER_02: And then there was Hannah, and they were probably still, I don't know, at least a minute ahead of me at that point.
[25:17] SPEAKER_02: But that's when I kind of saw that they were like, I figured I could most likely for sure catch them before the end of the first lap.
[25:25] SPEAKER_02: So that was good, good to have that feeling, and that got me running kind of quick, a little too quick, I think, for a couple moments.
[25:33] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I just wanted actually what happened was we got I saw that they were there and I was running nice and steady, catching them, and then we got to a certain part of the course, and I saw different from other races, that the lead bike and a camera bike were like right in front of them.
[25:53] SPEAKER_02: And I thought that is bull.
[25:57] SPEAKER_02: Like if anyone's getting a bike in front of them, it's me.
[26:00] SPEAKER_02: And so that made me close the gap a bit quicker because it was really quite windy all day.
[26:07] SPEAKER_02: And I think they're it's kind of nice to have a bike in front of you.
[26:11] SPEAKER_02: So if that's how they were doing it, I thought I'm I'm not letting them have that bike for too long.
[26:16] SPEAKER_02: So I kind of had to get up there quickly.
[26:20] SPEAKER_00: I actually completely forgot that Hannah came into I literally watched the race, and I forgot I completely forgot that Hannah broke away at that little end bit of the ride.
[26:27] SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so did you did you know that that Lottie lost that time in?
[26:32] SPEAKER_00: Like, were you confused when Hannah was that close to Lottie that early and and she was only like a minute in front of you when you expected her to be like three minutes or so up the road?
[26:40] SPEAKER_02: Well, not really, because Hannah kind of pulled away that last bit on the bike from from us, me and Regan.
[26:47] SPEAKER_02: So I thought, wow, gosh, like Lottie must have lost time because we were it was battling a nasty headwind that whole way back.
[26:56] SPEAKER_02: Like 40 miles all the way back into a headwind.
[27:00] SPEAKER_02: So I thought, well, maybe if Lottie like slowed down quite a bit, maybe Hannah just caught her at the end of the ride.
[27:06] SPEAKER_02: I had no idea about the watch situation until afterwards.
[27:10] SPEAKER_00: What did you make of it?
[27:11] SPEAKER_00: How much time would you give up for for a watch in T2?
[27:14] SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't have, yeah, I wouldn't have given up any time, I don't think.
[27:19] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[27:20] SPEAKER_00: But did you talk to Lottie afterwards?
[27:22] SPEAKER_00: Do you know like what her thought process was?
[27:24] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she was I think she was like a little not feeling great about people like ripping her a new one for looking around for a watch.
[27:33] SPEAKER_02: So I think she was feeling kind of attacked, actually.
[27:36] SPEAKER_02: Um so I feel bad for her for that.
[27:39] SPEAKER_02: Um, but I she said she found it, she wanted it.
[27:43] SPEAKER_02: It was like an important part of her race plan, I guess, to be able to see have her watch, either for heart rate or for pacing.
[27:53] SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
[27:54] SPEAKER_02: I'm not she she didn't seem like she thought it was too bad of a mistake, but I I don't I don't think that it's something I would do or recommend.
[28:08] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I've got I've got a question here for you.
[28:10] SPEAKER_00: So I think Lottie's PB before that, again, lack of fact-checking, really just a nuisance here.
[28:16] SPEAKER_00: But I think she's ran 308 as her PB.
[28:18] SPEAKER_00: And she ran 303, so like a five-minute marathon run PB.
[28:22] SPEAKER_00: She comes third, um, she loses to Hannah Berry by about 50 seconds.
[28:26] SPEAKER_00: Do you think that having that watch is contributing to that five-minute PB?
[28:31] SPEAKER_00: And without it, she might have blown up and and maybe we're realizing that it really did help her in a massive way, and even if she had have just run off without it, she would have come third anyway, or do you think it's cost her second spot?
[28:42] SPEAKER_02: Well, both her and Hannah ran their marathon PVs.
[28:46] SPEAKER_02: So I don't think either of them really could have predicted how quick the other one was gonna run because they both got their best marathon times.
[28:55] SPEAKER_02: Um but in talking with her, it sounds like she has a new coach this year and she's done a fair bit of work on her running form and just generally like I think trying to run better.
[29:11] SPEAKER_02: So maybe the watch is a key component of that.
[29:15] SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not really I'm not really sure, but I'm happy for her that she was able to run quicker.
[29:21] SPEAKER_00: It seemed like a fast day out in the run.
[29:23] SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of the men, as well as a lot a lot of you women ran quite fast, I would say, compared to what you you know, the their average marathon time was.
[29:31] SPEAKER_00: Did it feel like it was a fast run course out there?
[29:33] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it I mean, it's pancake flat.
[29:35] SPEAKER_02: There's tons of people.
[29:37] SPEAKER_02: I think it could have been pretty quick.
[29:40] SPEAKER_02: The only kind of not great part was on the like the far end of the out and back, it was just really nasty wind.
[29:49] SPEAKER_02: So that was the only thing.
[29:51] SPEAKER_02: But I think, you know, as you saw with Matt Hansen running a 230, like it's fast.
[29:58] SPEAKER_02: So it kind of makes me wish maybe I would have tried to go faster, but then also what would have been the point?
[30:04] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[30:05] SPEAKER_02: There's no point.
[30:06] SPEAKER_00: No, save it for tone.
[30:07] SPEAKER_00: You you made the exact right decision.
[30:09] SPEAKER_00: And I was looking at you being like, oh, she's feeling so good.
[30:12] SPEAKER_00: Like you just looked so easy the whole day.
[30:13] SPEAKER_00: So definitely a smart decision.
[30:15] SPEAKER_00: And like Matthew Marquart ran 239.
[30:17] SPEAKER_00: I don't think, you know, I don't think a lot of people would have expected him to run 239 before the start of the day.
[30:22] SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like you said, you know, Matt Hanson, what the hell?
[30:25] SPEAKER_00: 230, and he only only came fifth.
[30:27] SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's actually if you had told me Matt Hanson runs 230 at Cannes, I would have told you he won the race on the weekend, I think, looking at the field.
[30:33] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, crazy day, actually.
[30:36] SPEAKER_00: Um, all like okay, with all that taken into account, what did you what did you make of the day?
[30:41] SPEAKER_00: Like if you were to give yourself a you know an old school school mark out A from A down to F, what would you give yourself?
[30:48] SPEAKER_02: I would give myself um an A for tactics.
[30:53] SPEAKER_02: I would give myself probably an A for mental attitude and enjoyment.
[31:01] SPEAKER_02: I would give myself I mean, I don't know how we were rating execution.
[31:09] SPEAKER_02: I mean, did I do my fastest possible thing?
[31:14] SPEAKER_02: Probably not, but I think I executed what I needed to execute, so I don't know.
[31:21] SPEAKER_02: I think I get a good grade.
[31:22] SPEAKER_00: I agree.
[31:23] SPEAKER_00: Yep, hard to hard to give yourself anything less than an A, I would think, when you win the race quite comfortably like that.
[31:29] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like checked the main I mean the main boxes I was going there to check, it got super checked.
[31:37] SPEAKER_02: So I think, yeah, you can't really have and I didn't have to like battle any demons, so I think you gotta feel good about that.
[31:47] SPEAKER_00: Okay, and so now I have another question.
[31:49] SPEAKER_00: I want you to explain to me why I was feeling something.
[31:51] SPEAKER_00: Because I was feeling like this was a very easy race for you to win.
[31:54] SPEAKER_00: And I really respect um, like, particularly like I think I really rate Lottie Welms.
[31:59] SPEAKER_00: I think if she gets it right, she could be awesome.
[32:01] SPEAKER_00: And like Hannah Berry's just as consistent as it gets at the moment.
[32:04] SPEAKER_00: So like I like I don't know why I felt like it was so easy for you.
[32:08] SPEAKER_00: And then when I when I go back and look at the and we talked about it before we started recording at the the Iron Man World Championships results from last year, yourself, so the the top four women from Cairns, yourself, uh Hannah, Lottie, and Penny, you finished next to each other at the Iron Man World Championships.
[32:26] SPEAKER_00: So Penny Slater finished seventh, Lottie Wilms finished eighth, uh, yourself finished ninth, and Hannah Berry finished tenth.
[32:32] SPEAKER_00: But then so you've come out of those four, you've come third at Iron Man World Championships, literally only at the end of last year.
[32:38] SPEAKER_00: And then I look at Cairns, not much should have changed, and I look at it and go, Oh yeah, Jackie will win it really easy.
[32:43] SPEAKER_00: You do, you go on to win it by four minutes, and like you said, you didn't you didn't give it everything, you didn't go to the well.
[32:49] SPEAKER_00: You you did all that you had to do to win, and and it was really impressive.
[32:52] SPEAKER_00: But has something changed in that period of time?
[32:55] SPEAKER_00: Like why, like, why did you win so comfortably considering what happened at World Champs last year?
[33:00] SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I think a few things.
[33:05] SPEAKER_02: Number one is uh, well, I'm getting my Iron Man footing, I'm getting my confidence in in Iron Man back, and that along with that comes with like consistent execution.
[33:20] SPEAKER_02: And I think if anything, the reason you might have been thinking I would win is that I I mostly race pretty well and consistently, like knock on wood.
[33:33] SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm pretty much on a podium every single time.
[33:36] SPEAKER_02: So I think that's where maybe you're getting that feeling is I'm I'm seeming to execute races pretty well.
[33:45] SPEAKER_02: In Nice in particular, as we know, that's a really unique course that I think requires a lot of special prep.
[33:53] SPEAKER_02: And I did not do that special prep.
[33:56] SPEAKER_02: I didn't have any camps out there, I didn't do any course recon except for the week before.
[34:03] SPEAKER_02: And as well, I just for some reason, well, not some reason, I was very sick that week, um, which I really didn't talk about that much because I really don't like to discount, you know, any of the other girls' performances around me.
[34:21] SPEAKER_02: And I don't like to really have much excuses because I think everybody shows up to a race.
[34:27] SPEAKER_02: You show up in whatever condition you in, you're in.
[34:30] SPEAKER_02: Everybody's got their stories about what's been going on in their lives, and and I'm not really one to dwell on things that are going wrong.
[34:39] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, for me, I was pretty sick uh intestinally that like for two or three days leaving in, I wasn't able to eat much, much at all.
[34:52] SPEAKER_02: So pretty much my I had no like reserves.
[34:57] SPEAKER_02: I had no reserve energy, and I I really felt that out on out on course, I felt pretty rough.
[35:05] SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, as I kind of said to you earlier, like I'm so proud of of that result because of what I knew was going on for me that week, and to be able to sort it out and get into a mental and physical space to actually be able to do the race and finish, and somehow I really had to go super deep and dig really hard during that marathon, and and yeah, I'm I'm proud of that.
[35:39] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I would normally like to beat those girls.
[35:42] SPEAKER_02: I really wanted to be in the top five at World Champs last year, but it was just not meant to be.
[35:48] SPEAKER_02: So luckily I got another chance this year, and we'll just be open to whatever the experience is going to look like.
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[37:41] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[37:42] SPEAKER_00: I think it's time, Jackie, that we dive into some training talk.
[37:44] SPEAKER_00: The thing that I'm actually really excited about.
[37:47] SPEAKER_00: So uh your big goals for the year, I assume you've talked about the pro series, but then also the Iron Man World Championships at Kona.
[37:54] SPEAKER_00: I want to kind of go from the start of the year all the way up to Kona when it comes to your training.
[37:59] SPEAKER_00: And I know some of that's still in the future, um, but maybe we'll do a little bit of uh a little bit of predicting how that's gonna go.
[38:05] SPEAKER_00: So at the start of the year, you changed coaches.
[38:08] SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
[38:09] SPEAKER_02: That's right.
[38:09] SPEAKER_02: Yep.
[38:10] SPEAKER_02: I uh started with um Natasha at NDVM coaching in kind of start of February.
[38:19] SPEAKER_00: Would she have been at uh Iron Man Wisconsin back in the day when you were racing?
[38:23] SPEAKER_00: She would have she would have been doing all the Iron Man North American races back then.
[38:27] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she could have been.
[38:28] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we did race together back in the day.
[38:31] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's crazy, isn't it?
[38:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
[38:33] SPEAKER_00: So and who were you coached by before that, Jackie?
[38:36] SPEAKER_02: Last year I had uh Ian O'Brien.
[38:39] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[38:40] SPEAKER_00: And what was what was with the decision to change?
[38:42] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, things were just a little rocky with with Ian.
[38:46] SPEAKER_02: It was mostly communication-based issues.
[38:50] SPEAKER_02: I think he does better with athletes that he well, potentially.
[38:54] SPEAKER_02: I don't know this for sure, but I speculate he might do better with athletes that he sees in person.
[39:00] SPEAKER_02: I think that's mostly what he gets up to.
[39:02] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I felt there was just like it wasn't frequent or enough or the right type of communication.
[39:12] SPEAKER_02: Um kind of ongoing with that same issue throughout the year.
[39:17] SPEAKER_02: But obviously the training I was responding well to his training, so that's what made me kind of like really not sure if I should stick around or what, but eventually, you know, it was causing me more distress than than anything else.
[39:35] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we parted ways around uh 70.3 worlds time, and then yeah, I actually managed to sprain my ankle so bad I didn't run for six weeks, so I didn't run for all of end of December through all of January.
[39:55] SPEAKER_02: I wasn't able to run, which is fine.
[39:58] SPEAKER_02: I just biked and swam a bit, and yeah, and then once I was kind of feeling like I was back to functional, I would started up with Natasha.
[40:07] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh talk to me about this Ian O'Brien story, because that sounded uh kind of interesting, if you don't mind me prying a little bit, because Taylor Nibb said the same thing.
[40:16] SPEAKER_00: She she cited communication as the the reason why she moved away from Ian and and onto Dan Lorang.
[40:22] SPEAKER_00: So common theme here.
[40:23] SPEAKER_00: What you you uh you kind of touched on it, but but what was happening with the communication?
[40:28] SPEAKER_00: Where was it lacking and and how would you have liked it to be different?
[40:32] SPEAKER_02: Well, I I don't know how much I want to go into it, but I can say as an athlete, and I think most athletes what we're looking for with a coach is somebody to, well, first off, put in training and then potentially have responses or comments about the training that you're doing that might help you know, you know, yay, you're doing a good job, or you know, any type of comment.
[41:04] SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's what was really missing is I was getting the training.
[41:09] SPEAKER_02: I'm a very uh, you know, diligent, consistent trainer.
[41:14] SPEAKER_02: I don't have issues doing my training, I just crack on with it.
[41:17] SPEAKER_02: I could go weeks and weeks just doing the training.
[41:21] SPEAKER_02: I don't really I don't know, I don't really ask questions.
[41:24] SPEAKER_02: If I change something, I change it.
[41:26] SPEAKER_02: I don't really need to chat about it.
[41:28] SPEAKER_02: Um and so that was going on, and pretty soon I'm you know, it was just yeah, just very little communication.
[41:36] SPEAKER_02: And I think the coach-athlete relationship is one that you should be kind of working together and and talking through things as it's going on.
[41:48] SPEAKER_02: And I understand that I might be potentially a bit low maintenance because I'll just crack on and make changes and listen to my body and all that, but but it's still nice to to feel like there's somebody to talk to.
[42:03] SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't the right fit for me.
[42:06] SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's the right fit with him and someone else, who knows?
[42:10] SPEAKER_02: But um I just find it easier, and maybe it's because I know Natasha a little bit, it's it's just much easier communication.
[42:19] SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then with the with the actual programming that wasn't an issue re with Ian, how how has how has the programming and the style of training differed this year with Natasha versus what you were doing last year with Ian?
[42:35] SPEAKER_02: Um I'm actually surprised it's quite similar.
[42:39] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it's you know, I think there's only so many ways to train for Iron Man.
[42:46] SPEAKER_02: And I think if you're doing something totally different, you're probably not I don't know.
[42:53] SPEAKER_02: The way I trained last year worked for me and worked for my body.
[42:56] SPEAKER_02: So it's pretty similar this year, honestly.
[43:01] SPEAKER_00: And uh and uh I don't know how much you want to give me, but but how is it similar?
[43:06] SPEAKER_00: Like what what were you doing last year and then and then what have you been doing at the start of this year?
[43:11] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean pretty much the basis, my main basis of training is to just do consistent work every pretty much every day, week on week.
[43:24] SPEAKER_02: I don't do any epic stuff at all.
[43:28] SPEAKER_02: It's the most boring training.
[43:30] SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, not not boring like I don't like it, but just like if you look at it all and you can see it all, every single thing I do is on Strava.
[43:40] SPEAKER_02: I don't hide a thing.
[43:41] SPEAKER_02: It's so boring, no one cares because you just have to show up each day and do it and and just do the best, you know, do your best every day.
[43:52] SPEAKER_02: Nothing, nothing crazy.
[43:54] SPEAKER_02: So uh I mean the most of the riding contains.
[44:00] SPEAKER_02: You know, just long Iron Man type intervals, like 15, 20, 30, up to like 45 minute chunks.
[44:12] SPEAKER_02: Um, kind of as you're getting closer, closer to the race.
[44:16] SPEAKER_02: Um at sometimes at Iron Man effort.
[44:20] SPEAKER_02: But then I really like to do stuff kind of, I still like to pretend like I'm 70.3 training because if I do too much stuff around just like Iron Man type effort, I start to feel really flat and actually I start to feel like crap.
[44:36] SPEAKER_02: So I still have to keep a level, I still have to pretend kind of or keep a lot of the training kind of like 70.3 training, keeping a little bit higher power.
[44:47] SPEAKER_02: And I always keep I love track workouts.
[44:51] SPEAKER_02: I like to do track once a week where I'm running fast, like as fast as I can essentially.
[44:58] SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I swim this year.
[45:01] SPEAKER_02: The big change, and I think the thing that maybe people can see has improved the most is my swimming.
[45:07] SPEAKER_02: Um, because I made a pact with myself.
[45:11] SPEAKER_02: Well, I kind of change things around, so I'm swimming with different groups and I'm not swimming alone.
[45:16] SPEAKER_02: And that makes quite a difference for me.
[45:19] SPEAKER_00: Are you like a when you say that you like you believe in consistency?
[45:23] SPEAKER_00: That that's kind of the the premise of your your training philosophy.
[45:28] SPEAKER_00: Do you, when you're working with a coach, so when you're with Ian or with your when you're with Natasha, do you I don't know what the worse word is, like push or force?
[45:36] SPEAKER_00: Like, do you do you go to them and say, hey, this is what I believe works and I would like to be training like this?
[45:43] SPEAKER_00: Can you help me?
[45:44] SPEAKER_00: And then you both work collaboratively on it?
[45:46] SPEAKER_00: Or do you do you just go to them and say, give me whatever you do, whatever you want, and I will do it?
[45:51] SPEAKER_02: I think it's when you're first like looking for a coach or talking to coaches, I think that's when you kind of hash out if you have a similar philosophy or not.
[46:01] SPEAKER_02: I think it's important to kind of get that under wraps before you even get started with any programming.
[46:08] SPEAKER_02: Because if you say, Hey, I'm a triathlete and I've I just like to do like two epic days and the rest of the days just like short fluff stuff, uh, there's there's gonna be a maybe a coach that believes in that method.
[46:25] SPEAKER_02: But I'm somebody that just likes to do, you know, uh consistent everyday work.
[46:32] SPEAKER_02: I like to be on a pretty like set schedule of swim bike run, like pretty much the same things each week.
[46:41] SPEAKER_02: So I can, you know, I have a family, I have to plan around everything.
[46:46] SPEAKER_02: So I think, yeah, it's in your initial chats that you can say, okay, hey, here's here's kind of where I'm at.
[46:53] SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, for me, the second step is like, hey, here's have a look at my training.
[46:59] SPEAKER_02: Like, do you think that, you know, this style of stuff is something that that we can work with?
[47:06] SPEAKER_02: Like, are you interested?
[47:08] SPEAKER_02: That's kind of how I did it.
[47:10] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[47:11] SPEAKER_00: And so your training this year, did you guys get together and go, like, Kona is the A race, let's do everything we can to peak for that race?
[47:19] SPEAKER_00: Or like, and and do you talk about how you might periodize your season so that you can be peaking for that race?
[47:25] SPEAKER_00: Or is it just you get into it and you just consistently do the same thing week in, week out until you get to Kona?
[47:32] SPEAKER_02: Kona is not my A race in particular.
[47:35] SPEAKER_02: Every race, every in the pro the pro series is my is my main deal.
[47:40] SPEAKER_02: I don't think maybe I just do this to relieve any pressure from myself, but I don't try to put too much weight into any single race.
[47:49] SPEAKER_02: That's why the main reason I like the pro series is it makes me not feel stressed out or nervous about any race, because it's the body of work for the whole year that matters.
[48:02] SPEAKER_02: So I want to show up to each race I do in the best condition possible to do the best I can at that race.
[48:11] SPEAKER_02: So each race gets its own specific prep.
[48:15] SPEAKER_02: You know, for example, like going into Hamburg, it's flat.
[48:18] SPEAKER_02: I do a whole bunch of training.
[48:21] SPEAKER_02: Almost all my training is fairly flat where I can sit in the TT bars all day and get used to riding like that.
[48:29] SPEAKER_02: And for Lake Placid, I do a whole bunch of hill training.
[48:33] SPEAKER_02: So I like to break it up based on the race I'm preparing for.
[48:39] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, after placid, it'll be time to prepare for Kona.
[48:44] SPEAKER_00: Are you are you a big long run kind of uh person?
[48:47] SPEAKER_00: Do you do a weekly long run?
[48:49] SPEAKER_02: I love running long times as long as anybody will allow me to run.
[48:55] SPEAKER_02: I would like to run much longer, but I think it would affect my training too much.
[48:59] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I do leaving into Iron Man's, I'll do I mean minimum.
[49:07] SPEAKER_02: My long run is well, I suppose minimum is probably like 13, but most weeks it's like 15 or 16.
[49:14] SPEAKER_02: Um, but usually I only get up to like I may do one or two 20 milers, but mostly I like to get a handful of 18s.
[49:24] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so like between 20 and 30 at most, and 18 generally, so that's like 29 kilometers.
[49:32] SPEAKER_00: Yep.
[49:32] SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's still like pretty long, long run by triton standards, I would say.
[49:36] SPEAKER_00: And when you say you like to do 18 miles as often as you can, how many weeks out of the year do you reckon you'd go out go out and do, you know, 28 to 30k?
[49:45] SPEAKER_02: Not as many as I would like, because I have to um race so much.
[49:51] SPEAKER_02: Um I don't I don't know how often I reckon I would do that.
[49:56] SPEAKER_02: At least let's see, if I do three Ironmans.
[50:01] SPEAKER_02: Probably at least 10 or 15 times.
[50:05] SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
[50:06] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[50:07] SPEAKER_00: So um what's the longest long run you've done?
[50:09] SPEAKER_00: Is is like that 20 mile.
[50:11] SPEAKER_00: Have you done a 20 mile this year so far?
[50:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[50:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I believe I did.
[50:15] SPEAKER_02: I can let let me pull up training peaks, but yeah, I probably it was a little bit of a a squished build since I only started running in February.
[50:27] SPEAKER_02: Um and then I had a short time.
[50:30] SPEAKER_02: I might have done one in between St.
[50:32] SPEAKER_02: George.
[50:33] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
[50:34] SPEAKER_02: And Hamburg.
[50:35] SPEAKER_02: I'll try to find it, yeah.
[50:36] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that doesn't matter.
[50:37] SPEAKER_00: It's I it's all good.
[50:38] SPEAKER_00: Um and then you when you know you know how you say you um you kind of try and train with a little bit of a higher intensity still, because if you don't, you start to feel flat.
[50:48] SPEAKER_00: When it comes to your your cycling, how does that look in terms of the intervals that you do?
[50:53] SPEAKER_00: Are you like when you do those, you know, like you said, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45 minute intervals, are they at Iron Man intensity?
[51:01] SPEAKER_00: And uh are they the only kind of intervals that you do, or are you ever doing like VO2 intervals as well, where you're doing like 20 minutes worth of all-out kind of high-intensity cycling and that kind of thing?
[51:11] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I mean, at least one or two of the days of the week I'm doing like one day I'll do something more VO2-ish.
[51:21] SPEAKER_02: Not 20 minutes worth all at once, but at least some.
[51:26] SPEAKER_02: And then yeah, when it's more like an IR or uh 70.3 type workout, then it's at like 70.3 power, but that'll be like six or eight minutes long.
[51:39] SPEAKER_02: You know, always less than 10.
[51:41] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
[51:42] SPEAKER_00: Um, are you willing to give us what your 70.3 power is in training?
[51:46] SPEAKER_00: Like if you were to do like five to ten by six minute efforts or something, like what kind of power are you are you pushing?
[51:53] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, then I would do I'd be trying to be somewhere around like 2.30.
[51:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[51:59] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, cool.
[52:00] SPEAKER_02: I think it's pretty normal.
[52:02] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and highly transparent from you.
[52:04] SPEAKER_00: That Taylor Nib, I know you listen every week.
[52:06] SPEAKER_00: Listen to that.
[52:07] SPEAKER_00: See how she just went on said, what power did you push?
[52:09] SPEAKER_00: She just told me that's how you should do it.
[52:11] SPEAKER_02: Well, because I'm not Taylor Nib.
[52:13] SPEAKER_02: She she likes to have like this mystique about it.
[52:17] SPEAKER_02: That's part of her part of her shtick, and part of my shtick is that full transparency.
[52:24] SPEAKER_02: It's all on Strava.
[52:25] SPEAKER_02: I don't even have to try to lie because it's all there.
[52:28] SPEAKER_00: I've stalked your Strava before, Jackie.
[52:30] SPEAKER_00: Um, and I honestly thought you were hiding stuff.
[52:32] SPEAKER_00: I looked at it and I thought, oh no, she must be doing more than that.
[52:35] SPEAKER_02: No, it's all there.
[52:36] SPEAKER_02: That's really yeah.
[52:38] SPEAKER_02: Every single thing I do.
[52:39] SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
[52:40] SPEAKER_00: No, I fully believe you.
[52:42] SPEAKER_00: I just when I when I looked at it, I stalked it last year, uh, because I was like, I wonder what Jackie does.
[52:46] SPEAKER_00: And uh I knew you had Strava.
[52:48] SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh yeah, I think she must do more than that.
[52:51] SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't say you're the highest volume person in the world, like you're not doing Magnus Ditlib numbers.
[52:56] SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing high volume at all.
[52:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's crazy.
[52:59] SPEAKER_02: I think I'm doing medium, normal volume.
[53:02] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[53:03] SPEAKER_00: Like, how many weeks, like what what would be your average weekly volume, do you reckon?
[53:07] SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, probably like somewhere between 22 and 24 hours.
[53:15] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so normal.
[53:16] SPEAKER_00: It's really refreshing.
[53:17] SPEAKER_02: I like so normal.
[53:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[53:20] SPEAKER_02: There is I like I'm saying, there's nothing, nothing epic going on here.
[53:25] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I um I just had Mark Allen come on and tell me he did 40 hours a week leading into corona, and then he went to like a spiritual resort uh retreat in the mountains.
[53:33] SPEAKER_00: It was yeah, I just hear a lot of crazy training in the triathlon world on this podcast.
[53:37] SPEAKER_00: So to have someone like you who puts everything on Strava, does 22 hours a week training, just focuses on consistency, quite refreshing actually.
[53:47] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, just think about it.
[53:49] SPEAKER_02: I got two kids, like there's only so many hours in the day, and I really strive to be a functional like mom and wife and take care of the house, and I I really like to have like a balanced life and stay happy, and I think that's what allows me to race well.
[54:11] SPEAKER_02: So sir, I know my body could handle a real lot of hours.
[54:16] SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm quite durable, but what would be the point?
[54:21] SPEAKER_02: I don't think I I don't think there would be returns that would make it worth it.
[54:26] SPEAKER_00: No, I started coaching Jocelyn McAuley uh at the start of this year, and she has kids just like you.
[54:32] SPEAKER_00: You two are actually pretty similar, pretty similar age, both Americans, both got uh multiple kids.
[54:37] SPEAKER_00: And it has given me a whole new perspective on how you guys train.
[54:41] SPEAKER_00: Like it the amount of stuff you must be doing in a day, it just makes me feel so lazy.
[54:47] SPEAKER_00: Like the I I just don't get it.
[54:49] SPEAKER_00: I don't get how you be a full-time professional triathlete who you know is is winning big races like Iron Man Cans and Iron Man Hamburg and and has kids at home.
[54:58] SPEAKER_00: I I just I don't get it.
[54:59] SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense to me.
[55:00] SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't really understand how it's possible.
[55:03] SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I actually don't understand that either.
[55:06] SPEAKER_02: It makes me kind of wonder.
[55:09] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[55:10] SPEAKER_02: But so there may be something too.
[55:12] SPEAKER_02: Like I'm never like really sitting down too much and chilling throughout the day.
[55:17] SPEAKER_02: It's like, all right, I'm done with my training.
[55:19] SPEAKER_02: Now I'm gonna do this, now I'm gonna do this and this.
[55:21] SPEAKER_02: So maybe all that extra time like on my feet and doing stuff is really like all my active recovery or something.
[55:29] SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not having like lazy sit on my butt.
[55:32] SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't watch TV.
[55:34] SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you the last time I've actually watched anything except for maybe on an airplane, but I'm usually too tired, so I just sleep.
[55:43] SPEAKER_02: Ah, like that doesn't exist for me.
[55:46] SPEAKER_02: I'm doing stuff always.
[55:49] SPEAKER_00: So when was the last time you like binge-watched a TV show?
[55:54] SPEAKER_02: No.
[55:55] SPEAKER_02: Uh I can't just know.
[56:01] SPEAKER_01: I can't even think of that.
[56:03] SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's so years, years ago.
[56:06] SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what the last show you watched was?
[56:09] SPEAKER_02: Um, yes.
[56:10] SPEAKER_02: Actually, I did watch that uh thing about Nike, whatever it was, like when Nike, like how they got Michael Jordan to like come in and make their basketball shoe, like when they got good at making money from basketball.
[56:26] SPEAKER_02: I don't know what that was called.
[56:28] SPEAKER_02: I haven't I don't think something on Netflix.
[56:31] SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's really good.
[56:33] SPEAKER_00: Uh oh, was that uh no, I don't I can't, I don't think I haven't watched it.
[56:37] SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll Google it after this because I when you said Michael Jordan, are you you're not talking about the last dance?
[56:42] SPEAKER_00: Because I've watched that.
[56:43] SPEAKER_02: No, this is the one this is more focused on like the Nike brand and how they were like not a leader in the industry at all in basketball.
[56:54] SPEAKER_02: And then it's the story of how they signed Michael and how they like it was their first time developing an individual shoe for for one person.
[57:04] SPEAKER_02: It's a pretty interesting story.
[57:06] SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna Google it right now.
[57:08] SPEAKER_00: Uh, what should I type in Google?
[57:09] SPEAKER_00: Nike Michael Jordan shoe show.
[57:13] SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
[57:14] SPEAKER_00: That didn't come up with anything.
[57:16] SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was a doctoral.
[57:19] SPEAKER_02: They can comment on your pod.
[57:21] SPEAKER_00: They'll think I'm so stupid, but because Michael Jordan's such a big deal in America, but in Australia, less of a big deal.
[57:28] SPEAKER_02: Like we don't we don't really Oh yeah, he was like the deal for a long time.
[57:33] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and every time you talk to American and you say like say who was the greatest sport like sportsman of all time, they all say like Michael Jordan or Tom Brady, but no Australian would say either of them, really, I don't think.
[57:43] SPEAKER_00: So just different.
[57:45] SPEAKER_00: Uh one man it says the document the documentary One Man and His Shoes explores the cultural and social impact of the Air Jordan sneaker line.
[57:53] SPEAKER_00: Was it that one?
[57:54] SPEAKER_00: Or was it the another film?
[57:57] SPEAKER_00: Another film Air focuses on the business story behind Nike Michael Jordan partnership depicting how Nike signed the then rookie Michael Jordan and launched the Air Jordan brand.
[58:06] SPEAKER_00: It's that one.
[58:07] SPEAKER_02: That's the one.
[58:08] SPEAKER_00: Okay, air, air, it's called.
[58:10] SPEAKER_00: Jesus, that took a long time to get there.
[58:13] SPEAKER_00: Alright.
[58:13] SPEAKER_00: I'll watch that tonight.
[58:14] SPEAKER_00: That's my watching tonight.
[58:15] SPEAKER_00: Sorted.
[58:16] SPEAKER_02: Oh, look at you a C you know how to chill.
[58:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I don't have kids, uh, and I'm not training to try and win professional Iron Man.
[58:24] SPEAKER_00: So my life is actually very, very easy compared to yours.
[58:28] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's close.
[58:29] SPEAKER_00: Uh all right.
[58:30] SPEAKER_00: Well, um, all we've got here to wrap it up, Jackie, is the three deep and meaningful questions that we ask randomly drawed.
[58:37] SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if you know about this, Jackie, but I got sent this little like box of cards, and it's like, I don't know, 200, 300 cards.
[58:43] SPEAKER_00: And I what I'd been doing is I'd just been like ran like picking the top three, but they're face down, so I don't pick them beforehand.
[58:49] SPEAKER_00: And then once I'd like said them to the guest, I put them in a different pile.
[58:53] SPEAKER_00: And it's been so long since that I did it that the piles like have knocked over and they got like all blended together.
[58:59] SPEAKER_00: So I've just had to put them back together, and maybe you might get asked questions that have already been asked, but we're starting again from the start.
[59:05] SPEAKER_00: Um, so here's your first deep and meaningful question.
[59:09] SPEAKER_00: Complete this sentence.
[59:11] SPEAKER_00: I wish I had someone with whom I could share dot dot dot.
[59:16] SPEAKER_02: Well, the first thing that pops in my head is ice cream because I think I'm just hungry and I just did an Iron Man.
[59:24] SPEAKER_02: Or is this trying to say, like, share a secret?
[59:28] SPEAKER_00: That's the art of interpretation in the deep and meaningful questions.
[59:33] SPEAKER_02: Well, that my answer is not deep or meaningful, except that I'm I'm hungry.
[59:39] SPEAKER_00: How often do you actually share an ice cream though?
[59:41] SPEAKER_00: Like if you went to an ice cream shop with someone, you would never just buy one ice cream and then both lick it.
[59:47] SPEAKER_02: That is so true.
[59:48] SPEAKER_02: You're right.
[59:49] SPEAKER_02: I would never actually share my ice cream.
[59:52] SPEAKER_02: I would like to share the experience of going to get ice cream with somebody.
[59:58] SPEAKER_00: If if you do that, if you go to an ice cream shop with someone and you both lick the same ice cream, there that is sick.
[1:00:04] SPEAKER_00: Something's wrong.
[1:00:05] SPEAKER_00: Something's seriously wrong.
[1:00:06] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[1:00:06] SPEAKER_00: 100%.
[1:00:07] SPEAKER_00: All right, second question.
[1:00:08] SPEAKER_01: This is where we agree.
[1:00:12] SPEAKER_00: Okay, this one is deep, Jackie.
[1:00:13] SPEAKER_00: So you're you're in that post-Ion Man brain rot phase.
[1:00:17] SPEAKER_00: It's not a good phase to be uh answering questions this deep.
[1:00:20] SPEAKER_00: But what's been the most difficult decision you've had to make in your life today?
[1:00:31] SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking hard.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_02: You're right.
[1:00:33] SPEAKER_02: I think I do have brain rot.
[1:00:35] SPEAKER_00: Post-Ion Man, you're always gonna, you're not gonna be like, it's just not a good time for deep and meaningful cards.
[1:00:41] SPEAKER_00: Something with your quite hard.
[1:00:43] SPEAKER_01: The most difficult decision is a good thing.
[1:00:44] SPEAKER_00: Something with your partner, work, money.
[1:00:48] SPEAKER_00: Oh you ever had to break up with someone?
[1:00:50] SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
[1:00:51] SPEAKER_02: I mean, never was difficult though.
[1:00:54] SPEAKER_02: It was always the right decision.
[1:00:59] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was difficult because of the backlash, but it was never the wrong choice.
[1:01:06] SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I am not an overthinker, and I am not somebody that stresses too hard about things.
[1:01:16] SPEAKER_02: So I tend to make decisions rather quickly, and then I don't actually think about it again.
[1:01:23] SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if this question is great for me because I feel like whatever decision is made is the right decision.
[1:01:31] SPEAKER_00: Respect it.
[1:01:32] SPEAKER_02: The uh that and I can't yeah, I can't think of what's been a real like difficult one.
[1:01:39] SPEAKER_00: So have you ever had like do you do have you ever had something that you've done that you regretted?
[1:01:44] SPEAKER_02: Oh, a million things.
[1:01:45] SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding me?
[1:01:47] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
[1:01:47] SPEAKER_02: So it's not that you just all of my like uh all of my practical teenage and early 20s, I regret, but there's that I can't do anything about that.
[1:02:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a little different to what we're talking about.
[1:02:02] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[1:02:02] SPEAKER_00: Uh question number three.
[1:02:05] SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm still thinking about like two people sharing the same ice cream.
[1:02:09] SPEAKER_00: That is just crazy.
[1:02:10] SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm so sorry.
[1:02:14] SPEAKER_00: Uh what is your strangest quirk?
[1:02:17] SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's a terrible one.
[1:02:19] SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry to tell you, but maybe some other people suffer from this.
[1:02:23] SPEAKER_02: I have like this terrible noise sensitivity problem where certain like noises drive me crazy.
[1:02:37] SPEAKER_02: And it is really unfortunate for the people that uh are with me very often, but like uh, for example, like my dog, like the whiny noise my dog makes makes me feel psycho.
[1:02:54] SPEAKER_02: Like I'm gonna break stuff.
[1:02:57] SPEAKER_02: And also, some certain people like the way they chew, I cannot handle it.
[1:03:03] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so it's like it's it's terrible because it I don't like being annoyed feeling mad or annoyed with people, but something like triggers in my brain.
[1:03:14] SPEAKER_00: How bad are we talking here?
[1:03:15] SPEAKER_00: So, like um, if someone's chewing loudly or annoyingly next to you, like how how angry are we talking?
[1:03:21] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I try not to get too angry anymore because I just walk away.
[1:03:26] SPEAKER_02: I would get up and leave.
[1:03:28] SPEAKER_00: If you were forced to sit there and listen to it, like physical violence would would occur type of thing.
[1:03:33] SPEAKER_02: And I didn't have like noise cancelling airpods.
[1:03:36] SPEAKER_01: No, no, you just have to sit there and I would try okay, then my tactic is to try to out-chew them so I would get something louder and crunchier.
[1:03:51] SPEAKER_01: Oh dear.
[1:03:53] SPEAKER_01: This is embarrassing now.
[1:03:54] SPEAKER_01: No one's gonna ever want to share a meal with me.
[1:03:57] SPEAKER_00: No, I reckon that's super normal.
[1:03:59] SPEAKER_00: But it with you, um, is it mainly people who are close to you, or could it, if you were like, is it if there was a stranger doing it next to you, it would be the same?
[1:04:08] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's like, yeah, mostly any people.
[1:04:15] SPEAKER_00: What about your poor dog?
[1:04:17] SPEAKER_00: Like when it when it's whinging, are you just like is it getting yelled at?
[1:04:21] SPEAKER_00: Is it you know not being fed that night, or or can you just move on pretty quickly from it?
[1:04:26] SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm kind of a softie, so I just like feed him more, or give him a uh that's why it probably keeps happening.
[1:04:35] SPEAKER_02: It's I can't take it, so I like give him a bone or something.
[1:04:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[1:04:41] SPEAKER_00: He's sleeping in your bed, laying on the couch.
[1:04:44] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:04:45] SPEAKER_02: Uh, it does make me that does bother me quite a lot, though.
[1:04:49] SPEAKER_02: I feel bad.
[1:04:50] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's turned into just a massive self-fulfilling prophecy right there.
[1:04:54] SPEAKER_00: But anyway.
[1:04:55] SPEAKER_00: It is.
[1:04:55] SPEAKER_00: It's probably too far gone now.
[1:04:57] SPEAKER_00: But uh anyway, condemned for law.
[1:04:59] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't change it now.
[1:05:01] SPEAKER_00: Uh that's funny.
[1:05:02] SPEAKER_00: That's that's really funny.
[1:05:03] SPEAKER_00: Jackie, thanks for coming on.
[1:05:05] SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, uh, with your win at Iron Man Cans on the weekend.
[1:05:08] SPEAKER_00: Super, super impressive.
[1:05:09] SPEAKER_00: What's the next race?
[1:05:10] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
[1:05:12] SPEAKER_02: Um, I hopefully well, I'm doing Iron Man Lake Placid, kind of no matter how it goes with recovery, because that's what I'm mentally committed to.
[1:05:22] SPEAKER_02: So I think it's gonna go great.
[1:05:25] SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's five weeks away.
[1:05:27] SPEAKER_00: Five weeks, four, four, four and a bit.
[1:05:30] SPEAKER_02: Four and a half at this point.
[1:05:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow, that's brutal.
[1:05:34] SPEAKER_02: But it's like there's a chance it could work.
[1:05:38] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[1:05:39] SPEAKER_00: Well, wait and see.
[1:05:40] SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna do much training in between it?
[1:05:42] SPEAKER_00: Like, or is it kind of just a recovery block?
[1:05:45] SPEAKER_02: I would like to do a bit of training because honestly, I mean, I think that's why my legs got sore at Cannes, because I haven't done a long run now because I tapered for Hamburg.
[1:05:56] SPEAKER_02: Like, I haven't run a long ways since practically sometime in May.
[1:06:03] SPEAKER_02: So I really would like to do a bit of training.
[1:06:06] SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna try to do the best speedy recovery I can and do a little bit of training.
[1:06:11] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:06:12] SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
[1:06:13] SPEAKER_00: Cool.
[1:06:13] SPEAKER_00: Well, I look forward to watching that.
[1:06:14] SPEAKER_00: I'm in Lake Passett, I reckon, one of the all-time great courses that we have in triathlon.
[1:06:18] SPEAKER_00: So, and you came second there last year, so hopefully you can go one better.
[1:06:22] SPEAKER_00: Uh Jackie, enjoy your is it your last night in Australia tonight?
[1:06:26] SPEAKER_02: Yep, it is.
[1:06:28] SPEAKER_00: Yep, enjoy your last night in Sydney.
[1:06:30] SPEAKER_00: Have a safe flight.
[1:06:31] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and thank you for coming on the Triathlon hour.
[1:06:33] SPEAKER_00: It's an absolute pleasure.
[1:06:34] SPEAKER_02: All right, thank you.

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