# How To Do THRESHOLD Training Correctly

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 25 Aug 2025, 1 h 12 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698037-how-to-do-threshold-training-correctly.mp3

The boys start the show by going after one of their rivals, they then take a look back at the Sam Renouf podcast from last week, call out one of their own for sitting on the fence and then finish with a whole lot of training discussion. Lever: Use the code TTH for 20% off your Lever system Lever

## Transcript

[0:38] SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another week of the Triathlon Hour.
[0:41] SPEAKER_00: A bit of a different intro song this weekend.
[0:44] SPEAKER_00: Thanks to our man here, the fence sitter himself, Sam Appleton.
[0:47] SPEAKER_00: He joins us for another week on the podcast.
[0:49] SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me back on.
[0:50] SPEAKER_03: Here to sit on fences.
[0:51] SPEAKER_03: Keep sitting on them, baby.
[0:53] SPEAKER_00: And as always, our main man, the most opinionated man in Trithlon, and he backs it up on the race course as well, Greg Harper.
[1:00] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Jack.
[1:01] SPEAKER_01: I'm here to tear down the fences that Apo sits on.
[1:06] SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're going to touch on the uh Apo fit fence sitting that many felt happened in the hot seat last week a little later in the show.
[1:14] SPEAKER_00: But Apo, Greg, there's just been something I've been sitting on for a few days here, and I've I've wanted to I've wanted to talk about it, but I've been holding off to the podcast.
[1:23] SPEAKER_00: I've gone through a whole heap of different emotions, anger, frustration, sadness.
[1:30] SPEAKER_00: At times I've wanted, you know, to go out and get revenge.
[1:33] SPEAKER_00: That's how that's how strong I've been feeling.
[1:35] SPEAKER_00: And if you don't know what I'm talking about, then let me just play a little bit of a clip here.
[1:39] SPEAKER_00: It's from the Global Triathlon Network YouTube channel.
[1:42] SPEAKER_00: They do a little section of like breaking news or or hot news stories of the week, and then they discuss them.
[1:48] SPEAKER_00: And this weekend they had some fresh off-the-press breaking news.
[1:53] SPEAKER_02: On the back of Hayden Wild's London T100 win and an amazing comeback.
[1:58] SPEAKER_02: Today we're looking at his amazing season that he's announced.
[2:01] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we've also got the scoop on his world-class coaching team, including sharing the same coach as Tade Bagaca.
[2:07] SPEAKER_02: I think brings us on to the next very exciting topic because we have word that his coaching team is, well, quite an impressive roster of multiple coaches.
[2:17] SPEAKER_02: And he's been coached by Tade Pagaccha's cycling coach.
[2:20] SPEAKER_02: Now he's also got Summer McIntosh's swimming coach, uh, that is Fred Verno.
[2:26] SPEAKER_02: And then on the run side, um, he's got Gary Loth, who is Paula Ratcliffe's partner, but also coach to Mo Farah.
[2:33] SPEAKER_00: Boys, I would say generally speaking, we try and avoid being too petty here at the Trithon Hour.
[2:39] SPEAKER_00: That's been our history.
[2:40] SPEAKER_00: We don't really dip our toes into it that much, and we've had plenty of chances.
[2:43] SPEAKER_00: We've we've almost had to get out a restraining order on some other podcasters at some points, but we've we've stayed away from it.
[2:49] SPEAKER_00: But this is the new Trithon Hour.
[2:51] SPEAKER_00: And on the new Triton Hour, we're a bit like Voldemort in a group of muggles.
[2:55] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely no one is safe.
[2:57] SPEAKER_00: Well, like we've already talked about, unless it's Apo answering a hot sweet question about you, then don't worry, you're you're you're really safe.
[3:05] SPEAKER_00: This there's nothing dangerous going on there, and we're gonna discuss that later in the show.
[3:09] SPEAKER_00: On January 9th this year, yes, you read that right.
[3:13] SPEAKER_00: January 9th, we're going all the way back to January, people.
[3:17] SPEAKER_00: We had Hayden Wilde on the podcast.
[3:19] SPEAKER_00: He spent the better part of 30 minutes going over his new coaching structure, who the three individual coaches for each discipline are, like what, why he picked them, how it works, how he communicates with them.
[3:30] SPEAKER_00: We spent half the bloody podcast on it.
[3:33] SPEAKER_00: That was the first time he talked about it publicly.
[3:35] SPEAKER_00: And 47,000 of you listened to that podcast.
[3:39] SPEAKER_00: So that means at least 47,000 of you were more in the loop on what's going on in the triathlon world than the global triathlon network, the newsbreakers of Triathlon, allegedly.
[3:50] SPEAKER_00: Because last week, in August, yes, August, that's eight months later, those two microwaves over there, the supere heaters, have gone with the we have a scoop and we have word of Hayden's new coaching setup.
[4:05] SPEAKER_00: No shit, boys! It's been happening for eight months now.
[4:08] SPEAKER_00: GTM with the late news, Sandra Sully.
[4:12] SPEAKER_00: Boys, you can't tell.
[4:13] SPEAKER_00: I'm upset.
[4:14] SPEAKER_00: I'm angry about it.
[4:15] SPEAKER_00: It's just it's been it's been grinding me for three or four days now.
[4:20] SPEAKER_03: The Sandra Sully reference, that's um that's only the Australian listeners are gonna understand that one.
[4:25] SPEAKER_03: But um I mean, yeah, it's a little bit um, you know, I think they phrased it that they had the scoop and um when in fact when in fact it was you, Jack, maybe you should have capitalized on it a little more.
[4:40] SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I don't uh I don't blame GTN necessarily in this this world of just um you know recycling content, reaction content is so big, especially on YouTube and things like that.
[4:53] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, people and content creators often take what other people have said and done and then do their own reaction and things.
[5:00] SPEAKER_03: It's just kind of this recycling of news and content that I've I've grown a bit tired of, to be honest.
[5:06] SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, I do think you do deserve some credit, Jack, for that scoop, but maybe we need to capitalize on the um I don't know, on these YouTube uh this recycling of content.
[5:18] SPEAKER_03: Maybe you need to get on the uh yeah, the the YouTubes, mate, and start posting some videos like GTN.
[5:24] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're not you're not up to date on the YouTube, Jack.
[5:26] SPEAKER_01: And you know, 47,000, I mean, it's probably more like 300 or 400 too.
[5:31] SPEAKER_01: So I mean you can't you can't blame them, you know, for uh for for giving that stoop.
[5:36] SPEAKER_00: You would think though, as as two people who break news, they might have listened to that podcast if 47,000 other triathlon fans are.
[5:44] SPEAKER_00: There can't even be that many more than 47 like thousand triathlon fans, can there?
[5:48] SPEAKER_00: Really?
[5:49] SPEAKER_00: Like who are who care about that kind of news?
[5:52] SPEAKER_00: Oh, and uh so like what what we kind of thought we might do is is we put our heads together and come up with some more breaking news stories, hoping that someone, you know, taps James and Mark on the on the shoulder and says, Boys, you've got to go and listen to this week's triathlon hour episode.
[6:08] SPEAKER_00: So if you are listening, Mark and James, we thought we thought we'd we'd we'd help you.
[6:12] SPEAKER_00: You don't have to try and go and search the internet to find the breaking news.
[6:17] SPEAKER_00: We'll give it to you.
[6:18] SPEAKER_00: So here it is, GTN.
[6:20] SPEAKER_00: Feel free to steal any of these breaking news stories for next week's show.
[6:31] SPEAKER_01: In breaking news, double Olympic gold medal winner Alistair Brownlee has retired.
[6:37] SPEAKER_01: He leaves behind a litany of shattered egos and broken spirits.
[6:47] SPEAKER_00: In news that has shocked the Trithon world, fresh off winning back-to-back Iron Man World Championships together, Chrissy Wellington and coach Brett Sutton have parted ways.
[6:57] SPEAKER_00: Wellington will now begin the search for a new coach with former world champion Simon Lessing, the early front runner.
[7:08] SPEAKER_03: This news just coming in hot to the Triflon Hour from our Irrespondent.
[7:13] SPEAKER_03: There is going to be an announcement that the Irld Championships will be heading back to Kona for both the men and the women in 2026.
[7:21] SPEAKER_03: You heard it here first, folks.
[7:29] SPEAKER_01: Wow, folks, we are hearing reports that Dave Scott, Mark Allen, and Scott Molina are boycotting the Bud Light Iron Man World Champs in 1985 due to lack of prize money.
[7:40] SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is the push Iron Man needs to establish prize money for the professionals.
[7:44] SPEAKER_01: Only time will tell.
[8:38] SPEAKER_01: I mean the triathlon hour, we are hearing whispers of a disaster at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant.
[8:44] SPEAKER_01: One of the reactors has reportedly exploded.
[8:46] SPEAKER_01: We will continue to update you as we get more information.
[8:56] SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
[8:57] SPEAKER_00: And wow, this is amazing.
[9:00] SPEAKER_00: Truly remarkable.
[9:02] SPEAKER_00: We have word in breaking news that man has taken its first steps on the moon.
[9:07] SPEAKER_00: That's right, you heard it here first.
[9:09] SPEAKER_00: U.S.
[9:09] SPEAKER_00: astronaut Neil Armstrong has stepped off a Polar 11 and put his foot on the surface of the moon.
[9:14] SPEAKER_00: As he did so, you heard it here first, remember folks.
[9:17] SPEAKER_00: He said the words that's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
[9:28] SPEAKER_03: In a shocking turn of events, the Trifon Hour is just learning that the United Kingdom will be leaving the European Union the European European Union in a shift known as Brexit.
[9:39] SPEAKER_03: This move will undoubtedly reshape the entire landscape of European politics.
[9:44] SPEAKER_01: And now Apo is fired from his commentating job because he cannot pronounce European Union.
[9:51] SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm not a news anchor.
[9:52] SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm just a pundit on a podcast.
[9:57] SPEAKER_00: Feel free to have you pick at any of them.
[9:59] SPEAKER_00: They're all uh fresh off the press, breaking news stories that no one else has heard that you now can say you have the inside scoop on.
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: I'm really looking forward to uh watching the Collins Cup next year.
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: Um, speaking of the PTO, the T100, we're gonna touch on the podcast from Lack Sweet with uh Sam Renouf that Jack did.
[10:20] SPEAKER_01: Um it seemed like there was a lot of chatter about it, and yeah, people were talking.
[10:24] SPEAKER_01: I saw the comments on Spotify and the general theme of the of the podcast, and I'm gonna kind of give my take and we'll we'll hear what the boys uh had to say.
[10:32] SPEAKER_01: Now, I think first things first is I I didn't really learn anything, to be honest.
[10:39] SPEAKER_01: And I like Sam and I like his vision for the for the PTO and the and the T100, but he does this deflecting thing where he says, let's take a step back, and he gives this long backstory, and then he vaguely agrees with Jack's hard-hitting question.
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: I never really saw too much emotion on anything.
[10:56] SPEAKER_01: You know, he he was asked if Taylor was dis if he was disappointed that Taylor wasn't in Singapore, but he never said.
[11:02] SPEAKER_01: He obviously was, but he's he didn't come out and say, like, yeah, honestly, that kind of sucked.
[11:06] SPEAKER_01: Like, I I would like I would like to see a little more like emotion, a little more human, and a little less like deflecting, I guess, on the podcast.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: And that's that's how it the overall theme went for me, although I do think there were some some good insights, but honestly, it it reminded me of the last podcast with Sam, which you know, I I just feel like I didn't really learn much after I listened to it.
[11:25] SPEAKER_00: So, Greg, do you feel like when you're listening to that podcast with Sam Renouf, do you feel like that's just who he is?
[11:32] SPEAKER_00: Or do you feel like he's putting on an act and not showing you who he really is?
[11:37] SPEAKER_00: Like if you were his mate and you were having a beer with him at the pub, would that be how he is, or you feel like he's not giving you, you know, his authentic self?
[11:45] SPEAKER_01: You know, he's he's a CEO of a of a company, right?
[11:48] SPEAKER_01: And you know, when he's in business mode, he's probably just in business mode.
[11:52] SPEAKER_01: I mean, the man's gotten to a high place in his professional career to do that.
[11:56] SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't say he's not being authentic.
[11:59] SPEAKER_01: He's being like his authentic self that he uses in his business, but you know, I don't think you're gonna connect emotionally with your partner if if your responses are like that.
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: So there has to be another element to this man that we don't really see.
[12:11] SPEAKER_01: So in that regard, like, yeah, maybe we're not kind of seeing the the raw emotions that he could, you know, use to captivate me, to feel a little bit more for him in his journey in this, you know, business venture that he's doing.
[12:23] SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't say it's an act per se, but uh maybe strategic in and what he has to do to you know accomplish his tasks as a CEO.
[12:31] SPEAKER_00: Do you think though that if he did give more, that people would like him more, listen to him more, and that might help the T100?
[12:39] SPEAKER_00: Like, are you are you saying that you think it's a negative and you want more from him?
[12:44] SPEAKER_01: I would like a little bit more.
[12:45] SPEAKER_01: I I just you know, I think we're we're at a point that you know, hey, did was were you disappointed that Taylor wasn't there in Singapore?
[12:52] SPEAKER_01: You'd be like, Yeah, man, that fucking sucked.
[12:54] SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, he would like to swear though.
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, all right, yeah, and you told you not to swear too much on the uh alternate broadcast, so we'll try not to do that next weekend.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I just I would want to see a little bit.
[13:05] SPEAKER_01: Um I just to connect connect to him maybe slightly more.
[13:10] SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's you know up to the individual listener and the people who are following.
[13:14] SPEAKER_01: I don't think some people need that, but I'm an emotional guy, so I like to see uh emotion and vulnerability on people uh to connect with them.
[13:22] SPEAKER_00: I think I was looking for him to give me something, just a little bit, because in the past he hasn't given me anything that made me feel like he was human.
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: He's always gone into politician or robot mode.
[13:32] SPEAKER_00: So I was looking for something, and I thought there was glimmers in this one that we haven't seen in the past.
[13:37] SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think in the past he would have would have come out and said, Look, we had this big sponsor on the line.
[13:44] SPEAKER_00: If we got it, it was going to be the biggest sponsorship in Triton, but it fell through.
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: And we put a lot of our team into that, and they were spending a lot of their time on stuff uh involving that, so they let other things slip.
[13:55] SPEAKER_00: I actually thought that was probably the most real and and genuine moment from him of kind of talking about something that he wouldn't have in the past.
[14:04] SPEAKER_00: So I think he I think he did that on purpose as like he made an effort to talk about that to show transparency.
[14:10] SPEAKER_00: So I thought I thought that was a little glimmer at least, even if he wasn't, you know, a Dana White style CEO who comes out and swears and tells you who he hates and why he hates them and and he's like the most relatable person in the world.
[14:22] SPEAKER_00: I still thought I got a glimmer that I haven't got in the past talking to him.
[14:26] SPEAKER_03: I mean, first of all, I think he we have to give a bit of credit, like Sam coming on the podcast.
[14:31] SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, not many CEOs of big companies would do that.
[14:36] SPEAKER_03: So I think, you know, there is a little bit of credit that we have to give to Sam, but I think there was a lot of I call it like word salad, you know, like spins the narrative.
[14:45] SPEAKER_03: Um like he was honest, but a lot of it was spinning the narrative in favor of the PTO and the T100.
[14:54] SPEAKER_03: And I think there was some things that I would have liked a little more clarity on.
[15:00] SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, he's definitely got that CEO speak where he can tell the stories and make it sound really appealing to the listener.
[15:08] SPEAKER_03: But you know, I thought it was interesting, something that caught my gaze was the the contracted athletes um not wanting their contracts to be revealed.
[15:18] SPEAKER_03: But I was under the assumption, and I might be wrong here, but wasn't it like the contracts like the the financial component of the contract was supposed to be given out depending on your ranking.
[15:30] SPEAKER_03: So if you were ranked number one on the PTR, you would get a certain amount of money all the way down to what was it, the top 16, I think, got the contracts and then the four wildcards.
[15:39] SPEAKER_03: I thought that was a set amount.
[15:42] SPEAKER_03: Um and then Sam came in and said he didn't uh some of the athletes had some reservations about their contracts being made public.
[15:50] SPEAKER_03: And that kind of made me think, has has the PTO and T100 maybe sweetened the pot a little bit with certain athletes to get them contracted?
[15:57] SPEAKER_03: Because I was under the assumption that it was just this, you know, um this objective number it uh depending on your ranking.
[16:05] SPEAKER_03: You know, rank one got, etc., this much, all the way down to rank 16.
[16:09] SPEAKER_03: So I'm wondering if there is some sort of, you know, maybe uh financial components that the PTO have put in to get certain athletes on board.
[16:18] SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'm just reading into it too much.
[16:20] SPEAKER_03: What do you guys think, Jack?
[16:21] SPEAKER_00: So there's two components to how the athletes are financially compensated in the contract.
[16:27] SPEAKER_00: So the first part is what you said, Apo, 100% true.
[16:30] SPEAKER_00: That is still a part of the contracts.
[16:32] SPEAKER_00: But the second part of the contracts, which was the same last year and this year, is that they have kind of like it's a um it's it's a marketing budget or a marketing component of the contract.
[16:43] SPEAKER_00: So they get X amount of dollars, and in turn for that, they have to do X media, and when the when the PTO asks them to do something, they have to do it.
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: So hypothetical numbers, and I'm gonna use Lucy Charles Barclay because she has unblocked us and is now kind of ignited our friendship again.
[17:01] SPEAKER_00: So I'm assuming she won't re-block us for this.
[17:03] SPEAKER_00: But let's say hypothetically Lucy gets$40,000 from for her from her athlete contract.
[17:09] SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, Lucy Charles Barclay isn't gonna sign for that.
[17:12] SPEAKER_00: So maybe to get Lucy Charles Barclay, the T100 need to give her$200,000 as a marketing component to her contract.
[17:20] SPEAKER_00: And these are the this this marketing component to the contract is what all of the athletes can negotiate with the T100 and basically how you'll know your worth to the T100 by what they're paying you through that.
[17:31] SPEAKER_00: So I I I dare say what what Sam's talking about there is that a few of the higher paid athletes probably were when asked about it, were like, well, we wouldn't like that out there.
[17:41] SPEAKER_00: But of course they wouldn't like that out there.
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the benefit to the athlete?
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: You're not releasing these numbers to benefit your highest paid athletes who might not want their contract out there.
[17:50] SPEAKER_00: That's not why you would ever release the number.
[17:52] SPEAKER_00: It's not for them.
[17:53] SPEAKER_00: You do it for the community and for the fans and for the participants.
[17:57] SPEAKER_00: Like, that's who you do it for.
[17:59] SPEAKER_00: So I uh to me that that kind of isn't in line with if you were initially thinking, hey, we want to and will release the numbers.
[18:06] SPEAKER_00: Why would then the high paid athletes who don't want it out there saying we don't want it out there change your mind?
[18:11] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean I can understand that.
[18:13] SPEAKER_03: I kind of wish there was um I just wish we knew what first place, like outside of the media um stipend that they might be getting, I kind of wish there was like the top 16.
[18:25] SPEAKER_03: This is what you will get paid as a contracted athlete for first place all the way through to 16th.
[18:30] SPEAKER_03: I kind of wish that was made public.
[18:32] SPEAKER_03: I mean, I understand keeping that marketing deal secret.
[18:35] SPEAKER_03: Like I've got sponsors and things, and I wouldn't necessarily want, you know, like if people ask me how much uh, you know, do I get paid from so and so, then you know, that is private in information that I'm not always comfortable sharing.
[18:48] SPEAKER_03: So I do understand that, but I think, you know, an objective number, financial component of the contract could be like if you achieve rank number one, you will get paid this much on your contract.
[19:00] SPEAKER_03: I kind of wish that was made clear.
[19:01] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean that's what they thought or they said would be clear, right?
[19:06] SPEAKER_01: And that's I think that's kind of what they were touching on to start.
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that would be great.
[19:10] SPEAKER_01: And you know, pros can aspire to it.
[19:14] SPEAKER_01: You know, as someone who like has one sponsor for not that much money myself, it's like I do wish there was more money out there.
[19:22] SPEAKER_01: And like I think pros hiding all their sponsorship money can like almost detract from their overall value.
[19:27] SPEAKER_01: Like, if you know what someone else is getting paid, then you can also leverage brands.
[19:31] SPEAKER_01: So I mean, in your position, Appo, it's maybe a bit different.
[19:33] SPEAKER_01: And like if you're Lucy Charles, like no, because in the pros be like, damn, this girl's making all the money, but you know, in the end, she kind of does deserve it.
[19:40] SPEAKER_01: So it would be nice to have some ladder of money like you know that they could share with with the pros, especially for that that first part of the contract.
[19:49] SPEAKER_01: And I I it's like we've heard this from Sam before too.
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: It's like you know, he talked about the multi-year calendar.
[19:57] SPEAKER_01: Um, he he's talked about that before, like, because that's always been late, you know, about the races and everything.
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: So it's like he talks about the prize money or the the contracts being public, they're not public.
[20:08] SPEAKER_01: The multi-year calendar, heard that before.
[20:11] SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's gonna happen.
[20:12] SPEAKER_01: Oh, now we're in a position to deliver better.
[20:14] SPEAKER_01: Well, he always says that too.
[20:16] SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I just kind of thought overall it was like very similar, and um that like it is the way that CEO speak, and I'm not really sure I learned too much extra.
[20:26] SPEAKER_00: I think he said something like I think what I took away from it more than anything is that this latest round of funding prior to that, they were basically out of money.
[20:36] SPEAKER_00: I I that's what I read between the lines from what he said.
[20:40] SPEAKER_00: He essentially said, look, things were tight, we were struggling, we were really having to watch our spending before this latest round of funding came, and in part because that big sponsorship didn't come through.
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: Now that round of funding has come through and it's secured their financial security for uh, you know, a year, two years, three years, however long it takes them to get through that money.
[21:02] SPEAKER_00: I thought that was a really important point that he made, and he didn't have to come out and say that, but he did.
[21:06] SPEAKER_00: So you've got to commend him for that, because a lot of a lot of CEOs of companies don't want to appear weak.
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: So they're not gonna say, or at least hint at the fact that, like, yeah, if we didn't get this latest round of funding, we were pretty much fucked, and the T100 isn't, wasn't gonna continue to be what it is.
[21:21] SPEAKER_00: So he's basically told us and shown us that while we had this new round of funding, this is when we have to make it happen because it's not gonna be easy if the product goes downhill and the viewership drops off and the sponsors don't want any part of it, it's gonna be really hard to get another round of funding, especially when you're going to the same sort of people for for the funding.
[21:41] SPEAKER_00: So I kind of took away that however long this round of funding has to last, two, three years, that's what the T100's got now.
[21:49] SPEAKER_00: They've got that period of time to make this work, and if it doesn't, then the T100's not gonna not gonna be anything you know bigger than a Super League or something like that.
[21:58] SPEAKER_00: It'll be it'll probably stick around.
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: But on a much smaller scale.
[22:02] SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you think that you know Sam used this excuse and it kind of ties into what you're saying, Jack?
[22:06] SPEAKER_01: It's about the money, right?
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: Everything's about the money.
[22:09] SPEAKER_01: Do they need to shift to like one-day events?
[22:11] SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he says that this is a challenge in a lot of places, you know, shutting down the roads for two different days.
[22:17] SPEAKER_01: I mean, if it's really such a challenge, maybe they need to pivot to that, you know, one-day event.
[22:21] SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, it was just an excuse that I heard.
[22:23] SPEAKER_01: It's like if it's really gonna bog down your finances and make it tough to host races and you're gonna change venues at the last frickin' second over and over again, then change your format.
[22:34] SPEAKER_01: Like you need to be the one to make the change and not, you know, blame it on outside factors.
[22:38] SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, it's really hard to do two days.
[22:40] SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, fine, do the age groupers in the morning, you know, from 6 a.m.
[22:44] SPEAKER_01: to 12 p.m.
[22:45] SPEAKER_01: and the pros race in the afternoon, and it's one day and it's and it's changed.
[22:48] SPEAKER_01: What do you guys think?
[22:50] SPEAKER_00: I think so, Greg.
[22:50] SPEAKER_00: I think it's a good idea.
[22:52] SPEAKER_00: The question I would ask from you is they separate the pros from the age groupers.
[22:57] SPEAKER_00: Now, there's multiple reasons why they do that.
[22:59] SPEAKER_00: I think a big aspect of it is for the broadcast, so that they can put out a television program and a streaming program where it's just the professionals.
[23:07] SPEAKER_00: If they were to have overlap in that, do you think that anyone watching cares?
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: Like if there's age groupers on the screen, do you think it takes away from it?
[23:15] SPEAKER_00: Or do you think it makes it look like a bigger event and that they should actually embrace that and rather than try to separate them, they should chuck it all on the same day, maybe get them overlapping a little bit, make it seem like it's a bigger thing, look like there's more people out there.
[23:28] SPEAKER_00: It takes away all these courses, like the course issue at London.
[23:32] SPEAKER_00: So the age groupers actually have a pretty good course at London, but they can't get it for both days.
[23:36] SPEAKER_00: So if they did it on the one day, then the pros would actually get this nice course that goes closer into the city and isn't through, like isn't just through this industrial kind of back of supermarket warehouse vibes kind of thing.
[23:48] SPEAKER_00: So that's that problem um ticked off.
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: And like you said, Greg, it seems like a lot of their problems come because it's really hard to do two days, and the the like the cost in the permissions for that, um, and even just being able to be granted permissions for that seems to be causing them a heap of issues.
[24:04] SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean, I personally don't think overlapping things and having all the age groupers and the pros on the same day, I don't think it loses you a viewer.
[24:12] SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone's really pissed off by that.
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: Like it's never hurt Iron Man at Kona.
[24:17] SPEAKER_00: You know, that's still the biggest triathlon every year.
[24:19] SPEAKER_00: And I've never watched it and thought, oh, why is there an age grouper running over the other side of the course?
[24:23] SPEAKER_00: Like it never crosses my mind at all.
[24:25] SPEAKER_00: In fact, it just makes it seem like it's a bigger thing.
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: So I'm with you.
[24:28] SPEAKER_00: I think that could sort of fix a lot of their issues.
[24:31] SPEAKER_01: I've never even thought about it in that regard.
[24:33] SPEAKER_01: Like, if there's age groupers on the course and someone watching at home is is sees that and like, wow, these pros are so fast.
[24:40] SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, there's age groupers.
[24:42] SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I could do the race too.
[24:43] SPEAKER_01: I've never really thought about it, like it could almost enhance things.
[24:46] SPEAKER_01: I mean, logistically with looped courses and like safety and all of that type of stuff, like we don't want to see, we don't want to see Iron Man Texas, where these guys are getting on the wrong side of the road where they're not supposed to be, to pass hordes of age groupers.
[24:58] SPEAKER_01: We don't want that.
[25:00] SPEAKER_01: But if they could do a way where it's that small overlap, keep it to one day.
[25:04] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and maybe you see, you know, if I'm an age grouper, I'm like, oh, I can do the race, I'm kind of finishing on my run.
[25:09] SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can see the pros like on the bike or something.
[25:12] SPEAKER_01: I finish my race, and then I get to watch the end of the pro race or something.
[25:15] SPEAKER_01: That seems like it would be super fun.
[25:16] SPEAKER_01: And you can kind of get the best of both worlds without spending another night in a hotel, hanging around the next day to the pro race, whatever it might be.
[25:24] SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, I think that's an interesting way to look at it and maybe could possibly enhance the overall um yeah experience for everyone.
[25:31] SPEAKER_00: I think it opens you up to being able to do a one-lap bike course as well.
[25:34] SPEAKER_00: Like we have France this week that's a one-lap bike course, and it is the best bike course on the T100 calendar this year.
[25:40] SPEAKER_00: You guys will watch it, the pro race, the bike course is awesome.
[25:43] SPEAKER_00: The age group course sucks.
[25:45] SPEAKER_00: It's really not good.
[25:46] SPEAKER_00: But again, it's just this same problem.
[25:48] SPEAKER_00: If we did it all on the same day on this on this sat day, instead of across the sat down a Sunday, the age groupers would get to do that same bike course as the pros, and everyone would be happy.
[25:57] SPEAKER_00: And there's no way, like at a T100 race, the level it is, age groupers aren't catching up to pros.
[26:02] SPEAKER_00: It's not happening.
[26:03] SPEAKER_00: And if they are, then it's just really bad organization.
[26:06] SPEAKER_00: Like you just space the, you know, just put the the the pro women and the age group men 30 minutes apart, they're not gonna catch them.
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: And if they are, it's gonna be the very back runners.
[26:14] SPEAKER_00: But even then, I don't think they catch them.
[26:16] SPEAKER_00: And then then that opens up so many opportunities to not have boring crit style six, eight, ten lap bike courses.
[26:23] SPEAKER_00: We can now always have a one-lap bike course, which is so much better to watch.
[26:28] SPEAKER_00: It opens you up to being able to go out and do hills and mountains and that kind of thing.
[26:32] SPEAKER_00: So I think once you once you kind of think about this, it starts opening up all these opportunities to make the races more engaging and entertaining.
[26:39] SPEAKER_00: And as a participant and an age grouper, a race that you probably want to go and do more, I reckon.
[26:44] SPEAKER_03: I don't disagree with you, Jack.
[26:46] SPEAKER_03: I think what the T100 are trying to do is their main product is the broadcast, right?
[26:52] SPEAKER_03: That's their that's the product they're pushing, that's what they're trying to sell.
[26:55] SPEAKER_03: And I think looped courses are easier to broadcast, um, you know, easier for try uh timing, easier for tracking and things like that.
[27:04] SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, I don't mind at all having the age groupers on course, and I think it actually is what makes Trithon so unique is the fact that age groupers and pros race together side by side, especially in Iron Man and things like that.
[27:19] SPEAKER_03: But I I wonder if there's an element of professionalism that it detracts from having a age group or amateur athletes in the background of the pro race, if that makes sense, and watching the pros trying to navigate through busier sections of the course past age group athletes.
[27:35] SPEAKER_03: I wonder if there's like a lack of professionalism that that displays.
[27:40] SPEAKER_03: You know, they want the PTO and the T100 want this package to look as professional as possible to the outside viewer.
[27:46] SPEAKER_03: You know, they're not necessarily trying to target us triathletes because we're already going to watch it regardless of whether it's um, you know, multi-loop courses, one loop, or, you know, with all the age groupers as well.
[27:58] SPEAKER_03: I think who they're trying to attract is the people flicking through, you know, ESPN or whatever on a Sunday afternoon looking for sport to watch and they find triathlon.
[28:06] SPEAKER_03: I think they want to make that look as pristine and professional as possible.
[28:09] SPEAKER_00: I hear what you say, Apo.
[28:12] SPEAKER_00: I think the words you use, I use different ones.
[28:14] SPEAKER_00: You say look as professional and pristine as possible.
[28:18] SPEAKER_00: I kind of think they just mean boring.
[28:21] SPEAKER_00: Because people don't watch sport to watch like one person running by themselves and then flashing to another person running by themselves and then flashing to someone else run like riding by themselves.
[28:31] SPEAKER_00: I think your point kind of makes our point a little bit more.
[28:35] SPEAKER_00: People watch F1 for the drama and for the crashes.
[28:38] SPEAKER_00: Like if F1 was just you only were going to see four or five cars for the entire three-hour broadcast, people aren't watching it.
[28:45] SPEAKER_00: But as soon as there's a massive pile-up crash and the average viewer flicks past that, they're gonna stay on that, aren't they?
[28:51] SPEAKER_00: But they're probably not gonna stay on an image of Max Verstappen out the front by himself for 14 laps.
[28:56] SPEAKER_00: I feel like with the T100, we have more the latter in that we have a lot of vision of one athlete by themselves.
[29:02] SPEAKER_00: But if there's age groupers on the course and it looks a bit chaotic and you've got to figure out what's going on, there's lots of people there and it looks like a big thing.
[29:09] SPEAKER_00: I actually think it's more engaging and less boring.
[29:12] SPEAKER_01: Well, and when when someone rides by an age group of like, holy shit, this guy's going so much faster than those people.
[29:19] SPEAKER_01: Like, wow, that's like so having an age grouper for reference is like crazy.
[29:23] SPEAKER_01: You know, when you watch the Olympics and swimming, it's like, oh yeah, everyone's fast.
[29:26] SPEAKER_01: Just put a regular person in there, and then you're like, oh wow, these people are incredible.
[29:29] SPEAKER_01: So possibly on that.
[29:31] SPEAKER_01: And you know, the PTO fundamentally set out to do something different than Iron Man, right?
[29:35] SPEAKER_01: But they're kind of slowly going towards the Iron Man model, right?
[29:39] SPEAKER_01: They said no age group racing.
[29:41] SPEAKER_01: Now they have age group racing.
[29:42] SPEAKER_01: And they want this product, but you know, in the end, Iron Man's the only company that's stood the test of time in a big, big way because they have the one-day format where the age group is raced by the pros.
[29:53] SPEAKER_01: They minimize costs in cities, closing down roads, police, all that to one day, and you know, execute that over and over and over in many different countries every single weekend all over the world, right?
[30:06] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe this is a stepping stone if the T100 goes to this.
[30:10] SPEAKER_01: It's like they might end up just being kind of directly similar to Iron Man, but maybe that's the only model that can be really viable with this, you know, the broadcast model that they want.
[30:21] SPEAKER_01: I love it.
[30:21] SPEAKER_01: As a pro, you're like, heck yeah, like let's feature the pros, but maybe you have to be more strategic and realize that the age groupers are always going to be the backbone of the money in in this sport.
[30:32] SPEAKER_00: Any other thoughts on the Sam Renof podcast app or Greg?
[30:35] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, one more.
[30:36] SPEAKER_03: I think I did like how Sam, like the T100 want to put on destination races, right?
[30:42] SPEAKER_03: They want to put on races in cool locations, big cities.
[30:47] SPEAKER_03: Um like there's some Iron Man races that I've done.
[30:51] SPEAKER_03: Um, I remember I went to do 70.3 Buenos Aires like 10 years ago, and we flew into Buenos Aires and then drove like 90 minutes into the countryside.
[31:00] SPEAKER_03: It was like nowhere near the city of Buenos Aires.
[31:03] SPEAKER_03: And I think I do commend T-100 for trying to put on cool races in cool cities and towns, but I think that is also becoming quite challenging for them.
[31:13] SPEAKER_03: Like you can't just close down the streets of London, like they couldn't do it for two days.
[31:17] SPEAKER_03: And I think putting it in quieter, more rural areas, I think you can still have beautiful races.
[31:25] SPEAKER_03: They might not be big cities like London or else Ibiza or anything like that, but I think they might run into um you know easier event organization in still beautiful places, but yes, some places a little bit more rural, that might be a good uh a good option going forward.
[31:41] SPEAKER_01: You brought up Ibiza, and you know, the mo when Alistair almost ran into that spectator and he drops the F-bomb.
[31:47] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like that's put triathlon on the map, right?
[31:50] SPEAKER_01: Those viral moments.
[31:51] SPEAKER_01: So just go to these party towns where people are like, you know, like out there drunk at eight in the morning, and then you're gonna have a good race on their hands just because they're gonna get in the way.
[32:00] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think you're right though, Apo.
[32:01] SPEAKER_01: And I know Jack's touched on this too.
[32:03] SPEAKER_01: It's like maybe go to those second-tier cities, not second tier, but you know, uh, in terms of population stuff, so that the community can be a bit more involved rather than like, oh shit, I can't get to work today because they're closing this road for some triathlon.
[32:17] SPEAKER_01: What is that?
[32:17] SPEAKER_01: Is that swim biking and running and around in spandex?
[32:19] SPEAKER_01: God, these losers.
[32:20] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it maybe people can uh embrace in the community a bit if you go to smaller uh populations.
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[33:56] SPEAKER_00: We touched on it off the top of the show.
[33:59] SPEAKER_00: Myself and Greg, we finished the podcast last week and we had a private conversation behind Apo's back.
[34:05] SPEAKER_00: And we were just like, So, how'd you think the podcast went?
[34:09] SPEAKER_00: And you know, there was a bit of coyness, and then we both realized that we felt very strongly on the same point, and that was Apo fan.
[34:16] SPEAKER_00: He was a fence sitter.
[34:17] SPEAKER_00: That almost the entire triathlon hour hot seat segment.
[34:21] SPEAKER_00: And if you don't remember it, here's Apo answering which professional triathlete has the most annoying Instagram.
[34:29] SPEAKER_01: Uh Apo.
[34:30] SPEAKER_01: What pro triathlete do you think has the most annoying or over-the-top Instagram?
[34:37] SPEAKER_01: Ari Clau.
[34:38] SPEAKER_00: And in response to that, me and Greg heard that and we were like, that is so boring.
[34:42] SPEAKER_00: Like, let's we've got to give it to him on next week's podcast.
[34:45] SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no way Apo genuinely believes Ari Clau has the most boring Instagram on like of any professional trial.
[34:54] SPEAKER_00: He just didn't want to call someone out.
[34:55] SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, you know, maybe Ari does have an annoying Instagram, but Apo, you're not looking at Ari's Instagram there, but we know that there's at least 10 athletes whose Instagrams you dislike more than that.
[35:05] SPEAKER_00: But then Ari kind of made it interesting, and we played it on the on the start of the show.
[35:09] SPEAKER_00: But if you didn't hear it in response to Apo's uh kind of takedown of him that that wasn't very legit, man, Greg thought, uh, Ari went and posted on Instagram a bit of a song, and and here was a clip of it again.
[35:21] SPEAKER_03: Ari Cloud.
[35:24] SPEAKER_03: If I see another ad couple.com in my fucking Instagram speed.
[35:32] SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna throw my phone across the room.
[35:35] SPEAKER_03: If I didn't use it, stop.
[35:52] SPEAKER_00: So that was pretty funny, and it kind of made the entire thing that Apo said, you know, almost almost like, okay, we'll let that slide.
[36:00] SPEAKER_00: But me and Greg weren't gonna let that slide.
[36:02] SPEAKER_00: So Apo, you're going back on the hot seat.
[36:06] SPEAKER_03: Just having a look through the running sheet, and I can't see uh I can't see this segment in there.
[36:10] SPEAKER_03: So uh what's what's going on, boys?
[36:12] SPEAKER_00: There's a lot that happens behind your back, Apo.
[36:15] SPEAKER_00: Through the music.
[36:20] SPEAKER_00: Apo, which professional triathlete has the most annoying Instagram?
[36:28] SPEAKER_00: Well, here we go.
[36:32] SPEAKER_00: We just gotta wait for Apo to climb up the fence.
[36:36] SPEAKER_03: I don't follow people that I'm not interested in.
[36:39] SPEAKER_03: Um I I would say um, and I've come around on this person.
[36:43] SPEAKER_03: It used to be like COVID era Sam Long absolutely sunk me.
[36:49] SPEAKER_03: Um but I've actually come around a lot on Sam Long and I actually I and I think he's dialed it back a little bit as well.
[36:57] SPEAKER_03: Um, and I've come around on him and I actually think he's a great guy.
[37:00] SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, we uh we had a little bit of a I think Josh Amberger and I put him on blast on like a PTO thing.
[37:08] SPEAKER_03: Um and then Sam came out post-COVID and kicked everyone's ass, including both mine and Josh.
[37:13] SPEAKER_03: So he he definitely had the last laugh.
[37:15] SPEAKER_03: But there was a a period where Sam Long's Instagram, um, I think I I I still followed him, but I just hit that, you know, where you don't get it showing up in your Instagram feed.
[37:25] SPEAKER_03: I didn't fully unfollow him, I just did the um do not show me this anymore.
[37:29] SPEAKER_03: But I've uh I've since rescinded that like uh like Lucy Charles has unblocked you, Jack.
[37:34] SPEAKER_03: I have un unblocked Sam's uh posts.
[37:37] SPEAKER_03: They now come through my feed.
[37:39] SPEAKER_03: I think that's a fair answer.
[37:40] SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, a fair answer in 2020.
[37:45] SPEAKER_01: I have Apo muted just for the record, by the way.
[37:55] SPEAKER_01: He took he took seven photos one time in the last seven years.
[38:00] SPEAKER_01: Gotta fulfill those contracts, you know?
[38:02] SPEAKER_00: No real personality in the caption either.
[38:05] SPEAKER_00: Just like that that kind of thing that you know when you used to use Instagram in 2018, you'd spend an hour on your caption.
[38:11] SPEAKER_00: That's what Apo does.
[38:12] SPEAKER_00: Uh Apo, come on.
[38:14] SPEAKER_00: 2025.
[38:15] SPEAKER_00: Which professional triathlete has an Instagram that annoys you the most?
[38:19] SPEAKER_01: We know there's one floating in your head.
[38:21] SPEAKER_01: Just say it.
[38:22] SPEAKER_01: Let's just move on.
[38:22] SPEAKER_01: I got I got another question to ask you, and like honestly, at this point, like we've already lost half the viewership.
[38:28] SPEAKER_01: You need that Spongebob name 30 minutes later.
[38:36] SPEAKER_03: Um I'm sure there is.
[38:40] SPEAKER_03: It's it's people that like I've like someone's not coming to my head right now, but you know the people that um like the people that do the the codes or or the peddling.
[38:56] SPEAKER_03: You know, you can look through and see when something's not genuine or it's like a uh a sponsored post that they've had to have done or something like that.
[39:06] SPEAKER_03: You know, like your Socony posts?
[39:08] SPEAKER_03: Well, that's not like a I haven't got a prompt from uh from Sokony to say I do a post, but you know, sometimes I just feel like I haven't posted about these guys in a while.
[39:17] SPEAKER_03: Better better put out a post.
[39:18] SPEAKER_03: I thought my last one was actually quite funny.
[39:21] SPEAKER_03: I didn't.
[39:22] SPEAKER_03: I liked it.
[39:22] SPEAKER_03: I was just giving you a hard time.
[39:24] SPEAKER_00: Jack I do know people who do that.
[39:26] SPEAKER_00: Maybe you want to give us an example of one.
[39:31] SPEAKER_03: Um I tell you what was a little bit annoying.
[39:36] SPEAKER_00: This isn't the most annoying feed, but just when I thought we were gonna get an answer, he has to soften it before just come on, put someone on blast here, wrapper off the fence.
[39:46] SPEAKER_03: Um people that pedal merch, that annoys me.
[39:51] SPEAKER_03: So Fred Funk around um challenge Ross.
[39:55] SPEAKER_03: I love you, Fred, but I wasn't buying any of that merch.
[40:00] SPEAKER_00: You didn't like the Water Funk merch.
[40:03] SPEAKER_01: They're trying to get their bag, dog.
[40:05] SPEAKER_01: I respect it.
[40:06] SPEAKER_01: I you know, now we're on this topic.
[40:07] SPEAKER_01: I just want to say one thing.
[40:08] SPEAKER_01: If you're a fucking pro and you post a race recap and you don't put your place, you're so soft.
[40:12] SPEAKER_01: Like tell everyone you got 28th and you had a bad race, but like, yeah, you know, I had a bad race, but not my day.
[40:18] SPEAKER_01: Some things to positive takeaways, but looking forward to getting back out there for more.
[40:22] SPEAKER_01: I'm like, bro, you didn't even tell your followers what place you got.
[40:25] SPEAKER_01: Like, just sack up and say you got a hundredth place out of 101 athletes, and let's move on.
[40:30] SPEAKER_00: This is why the people love him, Appo.
[40:32] SPEAKER_00: Look at this.
[40:32] SPEAKER_00: This isn't even roasting him for being for being on the fence.
[40:35] SPEAKER_00: And in amongst the 10 minutes of you trying to get your way off the fence, find yourself back up there, Greg just comes out a strong opinion.
[40:42] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that was an opinion.
[40:43] SPEAKER_03: That wasn't putting someone on blast.
[40:45] SPEAKER_03: See, he didn't actually put a specific person on blast, he just put out a blanket statement.
[40:50] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is that's fair.
[40:52] SPEAKER_00: So, Greg, just while we're on that, because great point, you know what's equally annoying is age groupers who put that they came first, second, or third, or even eighth, without crediting the pros in the race and being like, in my age group, there was actually this many.
[41:07] SPEAKER_00: This is this is what I actually came overall.
[41:10] SPEAKER_00: Like, for me, that's even more annoying than the pro who doesn't give a position in a bad name.
[41:15] SPEAKER_00: Saying you came first in a race and then in your Instagram bio putting first place Iron Man 70.3 Vineman, even though you know Sam Appleton won it and you came 27th overall or 215th overall, that nothing gets me more than that.
[41:29] SPEAKER_00: That is the most dishonest, I love myself move on the planet.
[41:34] SPEAKER_00: Just be real.
[41:35] SPEAKER_00: Be real.
[41:36] SPEAKER_00: Say what you really came in that race, not what you wish you really came or what you wish people thought you really came.
[41:42] SPEAKER_01: All right, I got a follow-up question.
[41:44] SPEAKER_01: Is there is age group world champion for age 18 to 40?
[41:48] SPEAKER_01: Is that like an oxymoron or is that just not make sense?
[41:51] SPEAKER_01: Like, is that even real?
[41:53] SPEAKER_01: No, I mean like in every age group, like if you're 18 or all the way to 40, like is there even an age group world champion?
[42:00] SPEAKER_01: Because there's a bunch of pros that can whoop on you.
[42:02] SPEAKER_00: That's you know what I mean?
[42:03] SPEAKER_00: That's a trickier one.
[42:04] SPEAKER_00: I think, like, yes, I don't mind that as much.
[42:07] SPEAKER_00: Like, age group triathlon is awesome and not everyone is good enough or wants to be a professional, I think it's great that you still get to compete.
[42:14] SPEAKER_00: I really like that.
[42:15] SPEAKER_00: But if you're honest about it and tell people, well, I'm the age group 18 to 24 world champion, or I'm the age group, you know, 25 to 29 world champion.
[42:25] SPEAKER_00: And then if you do a post about it explaining that you won your age group, this is what you came overall in the race, being transparent like that I love.
[42:32] SPEAKER_00: And then I give you a heap of credit, like, well done, that's an awesome result.
[42:35] SPEAKER_00: But you take away from your awesome result by trying to hide what that result actually is, and you don't realize it, but to people who actually know, you just make yourself seem like kind of kind of a little bit of an egomaniac and kind of a bit bit like deceptive to to people who you know, like treating people like they're they're too stupid or like you want them to feel like you're something you're not.
[42:57] SPEAKER_00: If but if you actually tell people what it is, it's it's awesome.
[43:01] SPEAKER_00: Like, well done for you.
[43:02] SPEAKER_00: That's a bloody hard thing to become an age group world champion in long course triathlon in any age group.
[43:07] SPEAKER_00: It's super hard.
[43:08] SPEAKER_00: So, like you don't have to take away from it.
[43:10] SPEAKER_00: It's already an awesome achievement.
[43:11] SPEAKER_00: You don't have to try and make it seem like more than it is.
[43:14] SPEAKER_01: I guess that was that's kind of my point, like uh framing it in some way that like makes your followers uh seem different.
[43:19] SPEAKER_01: But now we're just getting to that social media rabbit hole.
[43:22] SPEAKER_01: Uh Apo, any any last thoughts or uh any uh you know clearing up of of the fence setting right now for us?
[43:30] SPEAKER_03: I'm just a man of the people, you know.
[43:32] SPEAKER_03: I'm just uh, you know, I don't like to call anyone out, I don't like to put anyone on blast unless they really deserved it.
[43:41] SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
[43:42] SPEAKER_00: It's not the trython, it's not the new triton hour way, Sam.
[43:45] SPEAKER_00: This is a very twenty twenty four triton hour when we're a bit afraid to say anything and uh and people stopped listening.
[43:51] SPEAKER_00: People are back listening now.
[43:52] SPEAKER_00: Our numbers are better than ever.
[43:54] SPEAKER_00: There is more people listening to this Monday show on the Triton Hour than there were for any episodes in twenty-four and you're treating them with this amount of disrespect.
[44:03] SPEAKER_00: You know what?
[44:04] SPEAKER_00: You're no better than an age grouper who came three hundred and seventeenth but said they came third in their age group, Apo.
[44:13] SPEAKER_03: Some age grouper has been gotten third in their age and they've just turned it off thanks to this slanderous accusations that you've put them on.
[44:21] SPEAKER_01: I've got one question for you, Apo.
[44:24] SPEAKER_01: If Bahrain 13 came with you for$69,000 for next year for a contract for three social media posts a year, and you took it, would you lose sleep over it?
[44:37] SPEAKER_01: Truly.
[44:37] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[44:38] SPEAKER_00: But would you take it?
[44:39] SPEAKER_03: $69,000?
[44:41] SPEAKER_00: Three social media posts?
[44:42] SPEAKER_03: $69,420.
[44:45] SPEAKER_00: USD.
[44:47] SPEAKER_03: Not Australian dollars, because that's like$4.
[44:51] SPEAKER_03: Um would I take that?
[44:54] SPEAKER_03: Um yes, I probably would.
[44:57] SPEAKER_00: Oh, you were so close without the probably would.
[45:00] SPEAKER_00: I'm actually just gonna edit that out and make it you to say yes.
[45:05] SPEAKER_00: Uh all right, boys, let's wrap up the podcast.
[45:08] SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do some training discussion.
[45:10] SPEAKER_00: Uh, as Apo says, everyone loves our unsolicited training advice.
[45:14] SPEAKER_00: So we thought we'd each bring a new training topic to discuss amongst us three, hopefully for your benefit.
[45:19] SPEAKER_00: Boys, mine is it's about the bike.
[45:22] SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of bike training is done in the wrong way.
[45:27] SPEAKER_00: I've touched on this in the podcast before when coaches who maybe don't have the confidence in their programming or are trying to justify being paid, they just set different session after different session after different different session.
[45:41] SPEAKER_00: And over six months there's been 200 different bike sessions.
[45:45] SPEAKER_00: I don't like that.
[45:47] SPEAKER_00: I think that progressively overloading the same sessions on the bike week on week inside of a block instead of constantly changing the sessions week on week or even inside a different week is best practice.
[46:01] SPEAKER_00: So let me give you guys an example.
[46:03] SPEAKER_00: I think if you're gonna do, and this is a short block, but it's a hypothetical.
[46:07] SPEAKER_00: Let's say you're gonna do a four-week threshold block and you've got a bike workout on a Tuesday.
[46:12] SPEAKER_00: I think that really good coaching might be something like this.
[46:17] SPEAKER_00: On week one, you do five by six minutes at 300 watts.
[46:21] SPEAKER_00: And then at week two, you do five by six minutes at 310 watts or even 305 watts.
[46:26] SPEAKER_00: Or if the athlete didn't achieve it on the first one, maybe it's just the same session, five by six minutes at 300 watts.
[46:33] SPEAKER_00: And then you move on to week three, and it's five by six minutes at 320 watts or 315 or 310.
[46:39] SPEAKER_00: And then week four, it's five by six minutes at 330 or 325 or 320.
[46:45] SPEAKER_00: I think that's highly effective coaching and training, and that progressively overloading that same session is going to uh get better training adaptation than if you did four different sessions that didn't really make any sense.
[47:01] SPEAKER_00: They just were all roughly thresholdy, all very similar powers.
[47:05] SPEAKER_01: I like that, Jack.
[47:06] SPEAKER_01: And you know, good coaching can be very simple, right?
[47:09] SPEAKER_01: And we've touched on it in the past, maybe making things overcomplicated when they really don't need to be.
[47:15] SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've even wrestled with this too.
[47:17] SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I give someone a workout, and then the next week you don't want to give them the same thing, just a little bit different.
[47:22] SPEAKER_01: You almost want to prove your worth.
[47:23] SPEAKER_01: So I I get how coaches can be tied up, but I think you know, being a good coach, you got to be confident.
[47:28] SPEAKER_01: And obviously, Jack is confident in this this block that he put forth because it's simple, you progressively overload and it makes sense.
[47:36] SPEAKER_01: And it's you know, it's a good way to approach swim, bike, and run, essentially.
[47:40] SPEAKER_03: I think as well, like you can achieve the same stimulus from a session by modifying it slightly as well.
[47:48] SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
[47:49] SPEAKER_03: Like you don't it doesn't have to be exactly the same.
[47:51] SPEAKER_03: Like you can do there's a few different ways to skin a cat, right?
[47:54] SPEAKER_03: So you could one week you could do six minuteers, and the next week you could do, you know, maybe one rep less, but do seven minute or something like that.
[48:03] SPEAKER_03: Like there is areas that you can change it up so it doesn't look like it's just copy and pasted week to week and achieve the same outcome.
[48:11] SPEAKER_03: Um, as long as it's all within that same kind of you know threshold effort and things like that.
[48:16] SPEAKER_03: The same with VO2, like you don't need to do 12 by one minute VO2 max as your only VO2 max session, you know.
[48:24] SPEAKER_03: You can do Yeah, change it up, do less rest, do 75 seconds or 90 seconds and things like that, um, reps and like yeah, there's a lot of different ways to get the same stimulus from a session.
[48:37] SPEAKER_03: Um so if the athlete is wanting or craving a little bit more variety, then I think you can give that to them and still keep the stimulus of the session the same.
[48:46] SPEAKER_00: Of course, because it's still the same thing.
[48:49] SPEAKER_00: We're still making the same point, aren't we?
[48:51] SPEAKER_00: It's just that you're changing a little bit of it, like a different part of the training.
[48:55] SPEAKER_00: So you can make the rest shorter, like you said, Apo, or you can add a little bit more volume, or you can increase the power.
[49:02] SPEAKER_00: Mine was an example where you just progressively uh increase the power very slightly over the block.
[49:07] SPEAKER_00: But you can do that same workout and and it can be the same thing.
[49:10] SPEAKER_00: Like it can be five by six minutes at 300 watts, and the first week you have six minutes rest, and then the next week you have five minutes rest, and then the next week you have four minutes rest, and then the next week you have three minutes rest.
[49:21] SPEAKER_00: You're still progressively overloading the training, but you're not making these big drastic changes like going, okay, this week we're going five by six minutes at 300 watts, and then next week we're going six by ten minutes at 300 watts, and then the next week we're going two by 12 minutes at 360 watts.
[49:38] SPEAKER_00: Because you like you're still probably getting similar training effect to all those random sessions, but the lack of progressive overload is a real negative to training and isn't a way to get the best out of yourself.
[49:50] SPEAKER_00: Like progressive overload is a fundamental training principle for a reason.
[49:54] SPEAKER_00: It is vitally important to getting better in your training and therefore your racing.
[50:00] SPEAKER_00: And you made another good point, Apo, which is you could make it seven minutes.
[50:03] SPEAKER_00: Of course, you could go for this example, five by six one week, five by seven the next, five by eight the week the next, five by nine the next.
[50:10] SPEAKER_00: And that does provide some variety, but you're still doing the real basic thing I'm talking about, which is that progressively overloading the same sessions on the bike week on week instead of constantly changing them so they're very, very, very different is better practice than changing them all the time.
[50:28] SPEAKER_00: And keep in mind, you actually get a lot of different, like, you know, mental variety from your training by doing training like this, because you block your training more.
[50:36] SPEAKER_00: So you go, okay, we're gonna do a VO2 block, then a then a threshold block, then a race-specific block, then we're gonna race, then we're gonna have a little bit of a block, uh break.
[50:44] SPEAKER_00: And then you go again, VO2 threshold specific, and then you just that's when you change the sessions because it's not like you're doing the same training year round, right?
[50:54] SPEAKER_01: Well, and then all the people that Apocoach, they you know, they get two by one thousand in the pool, and they're like, fuck, I want to kill myself.
[51:00] SPEAKER_01: And then the next week he gives them three one thousands and they're like, damn, this sucks.
[51:04] SPEAKER_01: And the next week it's four one thousands, they're like, dang, I might have to fire my coach.
[51:07] SPEAKER_01: I don't think this is uh good enough stuff for me.
[51:10] SPEAKER_03: Just wait till they get to week 12 of the 70.3 block and they're doing 12 by 1000.
[51:15] SPEAKER_03: Just one swim a week, just 12 by one game.
[51:20] SPEAKER_03: Um speaking of my training, I wanted to pose to you guys is faster training dead?
[51:28] SPEAKER_03: Um personally, I used to do quite a bit of faster training, especially in my early 70.3 um years, because like it makes sense, right?
[51:38] SPEAKER_03: The the thought process is sound.
[51:40] SPEAKER_03: If you deplete your glycogen and your body switches to burning fat, the more f efficient you are at burning fat, the better you're gonna perform, right?
[51:50] SPEAKER_03: Um, because the body's always burning more glycogen than you can consume and restore, right?
[51:56] SPEAKER_03: You're always in a decline when you're racing.
[51:59] SPEAKER_03: So the logic is sound, but I found, you know, lower quality sessions, worse recovery, and then actually quite a lot of periods of like binge eating where I'd have a rest day, and I just find that I was just had an insatiable hunger and I would just eat all day.
[52:15] SPEAKER_03: Um do you guys do any faster training, or do you know of anyone that still does faster training?
[52:21] SPEAKER_03: Because I personally don't anymore.
[52:23] SPEAKER_03: I've kind of stopped doing that, and I think the research now is coming out that, you know, carbs, carbs, carbs.
[52:30] SPEAKER_03: Um, I think David Roach just won the Leadville hundred mile and he was he ate 150 grams of carbs an hour, and he's a big, big proponent of eating a lot of carbs.
[52:41] SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I just think that the faster training and the kind of just fat adaption fad has kind of run its course a little bit.
[52:49] SPEAKER_03: What do you guys think?
[52:50] SPEAKER_00: Oh, I agree.
[52:50] SPEAKER_01: I got a question.
[52:51] SPEAKER_01: Did you like do sessions like faster, you know?
[52:55] SPEAKER_01: Or was it kind of like, oh, I'd wake up and do like kind of an easy jog or or whatnot?
[52:59] SPEAKER_03: It would never be like a quality session, but there was times when I'd do yeah, I'd wake up and do long runs or a couple of hours on the bike.
[53:08] SPEAKER_03: I w or I would swim a lot faster.
[53:11] SPEAKER_03: And I mean, Greg, you might have done this the same, just growing up.
[53:14] SPEAKER_03: Like when you were waking up before school, you would wake up at five, be at the pool at 5 30.
[53:19] SPEAKER_03: Like when I was a kid, I would never eat, you know.
[53:22] SPEAKER_03: I would just wake up and go to the pool.
[53:24] SPEAKER_03: You know, you'd never think about it.
[53:26] SPEAKER_03: You'd rip it too.
[53:26] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[53:27] SPEAKER_03: And you'd be ripping 5k swims.
[53:29] SPEAKER_03: It's funny how it's changed.
[53:31] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but now I don't, and it I make a conscious effort of actually eating, even when I don't feel like it.
[53:37] SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes I have to wake up early and go running at six or something, and you wake up at 5.30, you don't necessarily feel like it, but I might have like a English muffin or something, or half a bagel before I head out and do do my training.
[53:49] SPEAKER_03: And I I can't remember the last time I actually did a fasted session.
[53:52] SPEAKER_03: Like even a 4K easy swim, I would probably fuel beforehand now.
[53:57] SPEAKER_03: I think I think the knock-on effects of just recovery and um yeah, energy levels is just pretty severe when you do faster training.
[54:06] SPEAKER_03: So I just kind of eliminated it fully.
[54:08] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think that that point you just make at the end there, Apo, is a really salient point.
[54:13] SPEAKER_00: Faster training in and of itself has a little bit of merit.
[54:17] SPEAKER_00: For sure, it definitely does.
[54:19] SPEAKER_00: It does improve glycogen sparing, although there is research that suggests that just training more, so the amount that you train over time has just or pretty a pretty similar impact on glycogen sparing.
[54:32] SPEAKER_00: So your ability to use a slightly lower percentage of glycogen and a slightly higher percentage of fat for a given uh intensity of exercise.
[54:41] SPEAKER_00: So there is that small adaptive benefit to faster training.
[54:46] SPEAKER_00: But from my personal experience, from what I've done myself and what I've seen, you've got to be a psychopath to do faster training and not have a flow-on of negative effects.
[54:55] SPEAKER_00: There's some people who can do it like for a long period of time, there's some people who can do it for a short period of time, but almost everyone ends up having some side effects.
[55:03] SPEAKER_00: I think a big one is that people get caught in a restrictive and binging food cycle, and that has uh, you know, a whole host of negative impacts on both on performance and your your day-to-day health.
[55:16] SPEAKER_00: So I think you've got to you've got to think about yourself as a full product of what makes me the best athlete I can be.
[55:22] SPEAKER_00: And I think when you start fasting and then start binging, you you get, you know, there's a whole host of things that you wouldn't expect to happen that do happen.
[55:31] SPEAKER_00: Like you start putting on weight.
[55:33] SPEAKER_00: Most people who've who do uh serious fasted training for long periods of time at some point start to put on weight.
[55:40] SPEAKER_00: Even if they have lost weight initially or for even like a mildly, you know, um prolonged period of time, eventually it comes back to bite them because they get stuck in the in the binge restrict cycle.
[55:52] SPEAKER_00: And it's very hard to do faster training without doing what you said, Apo, which is trying to catch up at some point.
[55:57] SPEAKER_00: Like you just have this hunger and this obsession with eating at some point, whether it's a day later or that night or four hours later when you're on the couch.
[56:06] SPEAKER_00: And and that has a whole host of negative health impacts, but also body composition impacts and also mental health impacts.
[56:13] SPEAKER_00: So you don't necessarily want to go and train and you don't love it as much.
[56:17] SPEAKER_00: So there is these like flow-on negative effects that you don't think about that are more broad than just the adaptive benefit of the fasted training, which might be there, but probably isn't worth it given the flow-on of negative impacts to the fasted training.
[56:33] SPEAKER_01: I think that sums it up better than uh better than I could even add to.
[56:37] SPEAKER_01: So uh we'll we'll go to my question.
[56:39] SPEAKER_01: And this is uh a swim question.
[56:41] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you guys know, I do like swimming and I do like talking about it.
[56:46] SPEAKER_01: Um and I've kind of had this debate, not debate, but thought with Jack.
[56:50] SPEAKER_01: We've talked about it, some of my athletes even, and the question is let's say you do four or five, but four or five one hundreds, you know, all out on a four-minute interval.
[57:01] SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is like true speed.
[57:04] SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's important or no?
[57:07] SPEAKER_01: And you know, in the context of who the person is as an athlete, maybe their training age and and and their strengths and weaknesses.
[57:13] SPEAKER_03: I would I don't think I've ever done a session like that.
[57:17] SPEAKER_03: A lot of my swimming is focused on kind of threshold and sub-threshold.
[57:23] SPEAKER_03: I would say there is periods where I would do like VO2 max fifties and things, and sometimes, you know, at the end of a session I might do four times fifty on two minutes and just try and go, you know, as fast as I can.
[57:38] SPEAKER_03: So the same thing, essentially.
[57:40] SPEAKER_03: Well, but that's also that's also at the end of a session.
[57:45] SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
[57:45] SPEAKER_03: Like I wouldn't I wouldn't go to the pool with just five by one hundred or best effort.
[57:52] SPEAKER_01: Like I would do You grew up swimming, right?
[57:54] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[57:55] SPEAKER_01: So you maybe did some of this when you were growing up or no?
[57:58] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as a yes, when I was competing for swimming, yes.
[58:03] SPEAKER_03: But in my triathlon career, I just don't think Yeah, I don't think I've done anything similar to that in the last decade or so.
[58:13] SPEAKER_03: I might do 2100s like best average, but that's a different session.
[58:18] SPEAKER_03: You know, that's you know, leaving on 130 send off or 140 send off, you know, that's a completely different session.
[58:25] SPEAKER_03: That's threshold, whereas this is VO2 full speed.
[58:28] SPEAKER_03: It's a different different B.
[58:31] SPEAKER_03: So um, but I have done some VO2 stuff, but never very rarely, or if not ever, would I go to the pool and just do 5x100 as the main set.
[58:42] SPEAKER_00: Not saying it's wrong, but so you never do true speed work in the water appo.
[58:47] SPEAKER_00: Yours always becomes VO2 max work.
[58:50] SPEAKER_00: You know, that's like my speed work in quotation marks, but it's actually VO2 max work because you're, let's say you're doing the four four fifties or four hundreds at the end of a session, and you only take 30 to 60 seconds rest type of thing.
[59:03] SPEAKER_00: So you're only ever getting, you know, 70 to 80 percent of your ATP PC stores replenished.
[59:09] SPEAKER_00: You're never going to that three, four, five minutes to have full replenishment, so it can become true speed work.
[59:16] SPEAKER_03: No, no, it's always kind of a yeah, pre-session to fatigue or like pre-main set to fatigue the arms leading into a threshold set or at the end of a threshold set or something.
[59:28] SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, never going to the pool with the sole intention of doing five by one hundred on long rest.
[59:35] SPEAKER_00: So, Greg, I want to ask your opinion on this, given that I think Apo probably speaks for 99.99% of triathletes who exclusively do tempo, threshold, VO2 max, or easy swimming.
[59:49] SPEAKER_00: And usually they'll the the most people will do just two of them, like and they'll do it all year round.
[59:54] SPEAKER_00: It's it's even rare that one like triathlet does all four of them.
[59:58] SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's quite rare in programming, but I would say, yeah, it's 0.0001% who do true speed work because we do a lot of sets off short rest, right?
[1:00:09] SPEAKER_00: Um, do you think that there is benefit for triathletes in doing true speed work, which is short, fast efforts, probably under 30 seconds at most 45 seconds, but even as short as 10, 15 seconds, where they're doing three, four, five, up to ten minutes recovery?
[1:00:27] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I've never done a set with 10 minutes recovery before, but I know people who have.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_01: And if you think about it like this, all the Simmons who are the best in triathlon, think about myself.
[1:00:40] SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, all the other people that we talk about, we've all done it, is the thing.
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_01: And we got to the point where we got because we have done stuff like this.
[1:00:48] SPEAKER_01: And even Apo said it, he's probably done stuff like this growing up.
[1:00:51] SPEAKER_01: So now, do I need to do this stuff repeatedly now?
[1:00:54] SPEAKER_01: No.
[1:00:55] SPEAKER_01: But in terms of your overall swim development for your long-term potential, if you ever want to reach the ceiling of what you could achieve, and yes, maybe it's more a 200 freestyle, 400 freestyle type of set.
[1:01:07] SPEAKER_01: Like that that might increase your capacity for those races, but triathletes lack speed.
[1:01:12] SPEAKER_01: When you have no speed, you have no efficiency.
[1:01:15] SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, we talk about pro triathletes and the guys who can't make the front pack, they lose the pack in the first minute.
[1:01:21] SPEAKER_01: Like they need to be faster.
[1:01:23] SPEAKER_01: And sets like this are a way to yeah, work on that and really get that gear that you might not think that you have and put all your efforts like these are when you do this, you swim every hundred like it's your last.
[1:01:38] SPEAKER_01: And I think there's benefit for a lot of people, and even just a mental benefit, like you don't have to crush these workouts all the time, but you get out of that pool and you're feeling slightly sick, that's that's how you did it right.
[1:01:50] SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I can think of so many days when I was growing up, like I got out of the pool and I'm like, dude, I feel like I'm gonna throw up.
[1:01:56] SPEAKER_01: And that's how a lot of good swimmers get good.
[1:01:59] SPEAKER_01: So, in the context of triathlon, I wouldn't say I'm like a full-on expert and and how to fit this in with everyone all the time, and based on your physiology and who you are and your training age, all of that.
[1:02:10] SPEAKER_01: Like, but all the best swimmers in the world have done this, and even the guys who win the 10K open water swim in the Olympics.
[1:02:16] SPEAKER_00: What would be your if you because you just said you're not an expert?
[1:02:20] SPEAKER_00: You kind of are an expert, and I know you're saying that you're not you don't know everything, but if you were going to give general advice, how often do you think someone should be doing a session like this and maybe give some examples of the sessions you've got in mind and why?
[1:02:34] SPEAKER_01: I think doing it close to a race, essentially, like say you're three weeks out from a race and you haven't done this at all, and you do you know, I gave it to some of my athletes this week, actually.
[1:02:46] SPEAKER_01: Um like four one hundreds on the four minute, and you do like four fifties on the two minute.
[1:02:51] SPEAKER_01: And these are just like it's just full on effort.
[1:02:53] SPEAKER_01: I think in that 500 to 800 yards of like complete max swimming with full recovery.
[1:02:59] SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I saw it on Lucy Charles Instagram uh or no YouTube earlier in the year, and they were doing like five one hundreds or something on the six minutes, and the coach was really saying you can swim the hundreds as hard as you can, but you have to sit on the wall and you have to sit in your lactate.
[1:03:14] SPEAKER_01: Usually when I do it, I like swim easy between, you try to get ready for the next rep.
[1:03:17] SPEAKER_01: So that was even trying to achieve something more, which is you know, maybe that lactate resiliency or something.
[1:03:22] SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think a five on five is a classic that I've done growing up, you know, five one hundreds on five minute, but they're they're just so full gas.
[1:03:30] SPEAKER_01: And it's funny, I just don't try athletes, I don't think they can even like get to that point.
[1:03:35] SPEAKER_01: Like, so maybe they need a little more practice, but I think doing it like twice in the last three weeks into a race can like maybe give you a tiny bit of bump um and almost mental confidence, but like get out speed and like maybe even VO2.
[1:03:48] SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
[1:03:48] SPEAKER_01: I honestly I don't understand like the nuances of physiology quite at that level, like what actually is happening, Jack.
[1:03:54] SPEAKER_01: And maybe you could shed some light on that.
[1:03:56] SPEAKER_01: But I think preparing for a race that can be a good like prep session, essentially.
[1:04:01] SPEAKER_01: Um, even if you're gonna do an Iron Man.
[1:04:03] SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe you've been doing you've been grinding those long reps, so getting a little bit of that like holy moly, this is this is really hard type of swimming can kind of uh give you that little boost going in into race day.
[1:04:14] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, five on five.
[1:04:15] SPEAKER_01: Um maybe do 75s on the four minute or 50s on the two or two thirty, like Apo set, you know, 1050s uh on 230, something like that.
[1:04:24] SPEAKER_00: There's lots of reasons physiologically why you might do it, Greg.
[1:04:28] SPEAKER_00: Um you know like some really basic things.
[1:04:31] SPEAKER_00: So you'll have enhanced neuromuscular coordination.
[1:04:34] SPEAKER_00: So just neuromuscular um benefits to training aren't talked about enough.
[1:04:39] SPEAKER_00: They really matter, particularly in a technique-based sport like swimming.
[1:04:43] SPEAKER_00: You're also gonna improve your economy and your efficiency while you're in the water.
[1:04:48] SPEAKER_00: Again, things that don't necessarily happen if you go and do three by a thousand meters, they might a little bit, but they're not gonna, you're not gonna get the adaptation at a physiological level as quickly as if you do the movement at your maximal capabilities.
[1:05:03] SPEAKER_00: You got you've got a way higher muscle recruitment, so you get um like greater explosiveness power, uh, muscle strength.
[1:05:11] SPEAKER_00: There's just so many like physiological benefits to increasing your your speed in training.
[1:05:18] SPEAKER_00: Um the the science behind the rest period, I think, is is the interesting thing that you have to understand if you're gonna go and implement training like this in your program.
[1:05:28] SPEAKER_00: And I think the big reason people don't do it is because it's boring and it goes against your desire to train harder because you have this thing, right?
[1:05:38] SPEAKER_00: And you might do it when you go to the gym, when you're sitting there between bicep curls or between bench presses, and you go, okay, I'll get into my next set.
[1:05:45] SPEAKER_00: That's the wrong way to do it.
[1:05:47] SPEAKER_00: Longer rest is going to be better.
[1:05:48] SPEAKER_00: And if you're doing that kind of stuff and having 60 seconds rest, you're just not getting the most out of that session.
[1:05:54] SPEAKER_00: And as triathletes, we're so used to just doing more, more, more, more volume, uh more threshold.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_00: Oh, we just want everything to be harder and and we want that we want that positive reinforcement that you get from making things harder.
[1:06:08] SPEAKER_00: This does make it harder in a sense, but it also makes it kind of easier in a sense, and you feel like you're not getting everything out of it that you could.
[1:06:15] SPEAKER_00: And you've got to kind of throw that thought process and that that desire to get back in and do it and be like, okay, I'm good to go now.
[1:06:21] SPEAKER_00: And instead realize why you're doing it from a physiological perspective.
[1:06:25] SPEAKER_00: So when you do tree true speed work, so that's that's when your ATP PC system is the primary provider of energy.
[1:06:33] SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's it's when you're not using oxygen as an energy source.
[1:06:36] SPEAKER_00: It could be five seconds, eight seconds, 15 seconds, you know, roughly around that time.
[1:06:42] SPEAKER_00: Could even be maybe as high as like a 50-meter rep in swimming.
[1:06:46] SPEAKER_00: That effort that that takes, if you do it maximally, takes a long time to fully replenish your ATP PC stores from.
[1:06:54] SPEAKER_00: You'll get the majority of your replenishment inside the first minute.
[1:06:58] SPEAKER_00: Even if you're a bit more trained, like say Apo or Greg, they'd probably get the majority of that back in 30 to 45 seconds, maybe up to 80%, but probably not more than 80%.
[1:07:09] SPEAKER_00: To get that last 20 or 30%, it really can take up to five or six minutes for most people.
[1:07:16] SPEAKER_00: So that's why you have to sit there and wait.
[1:07:18] SPEAKER_00: And the Lucy Charles example is a great one for five minutes because the science says that most people will have fully replenished ATP PC stores in five minutes after doing the speed work.
[1:07:30] SPEAKER_00: So you might go and do an all-out 25 or an all-out 50.
[1:07:34] SPEAKER_00: And then the reason why you're sitting around and waiting is so that you have fully replenished ATP PC stores.
[1:07:41] SPEAKER_00: And what that means is that the quality of the next rep will be as high as the quality of the previous rep, right?
[1:07:49] SPEAKER_00: You won't be dealing with as much fatigue.
[1:07:51] SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you only wait two minutes or three minutes, you might only have 90% replenished ATP PC stores.
[1:07:59] SPEAKER_00: And so that means the quality of the next one isn't as good.
[1:08:02] SPEAKER_00: So the adaptive benefit you get isn't as high.
[1:08:06] SPEAKER_00: So once you realize that, you can actually allow yourself mentally to switch off and know, oh, I'm doing the right thing here to get the most out of my performance.
[1:08:14] SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people don't think about training from that way.
[1:08:17] SPEAKER_00: So if you are going to implement what Greg's talking about, I think just realize it, why you're doing it, how you do it, and then do it properly and commit to that.
[1:08:26] SPEAKER_01: That's a great thought, Jack.
[1:08:27] SPEAKER_01: I appreciate all the insight on that.
[1:08:29] SPEAKER_01: And it's funny you say that because I I did do a set like this a few weeks back, and it I hadn't done it in months.
[1:08:35] SPEAKER_01: And it was hundreds on the four minute, and I feel like I did five of them.
[1:08:38] SPEAKER_01: On number two, you're like, you're sort of ready.
[1:08:40] SPEAKER_01: Number three, you're like a little bit less ready.
[1:08:42] SPEAKER_01: And by the fifth one, they were all even times, but every rep was just slightly more like it's just hard, it was just harder to get it done, but you get it done.
[1:08:51] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I wasn't resting that whole five or six minutes.
[1:08:54] SPEAKER_01: It was only, you know, essentially three.
[1:08:55] SPEAKER_01: So it checks out kind of on what you said, like, but you know, I capped it at five, and that was it.
[1:09:01] SPEAKER_01: Like that five to eight hundred yards.
[1:09:03] SPEAKER_01: I think for most people, even four to five hundred is kind of that um sweet spot how how how you could execute it.
[1:09:08] SPEAKER_01: Because you know, ah, I did speed work today.
[1:09:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did uh 10 by 1s and uh 10 by 50s.
[1:09:13] SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's threshold, dude.
[1:09:15] SPEAKER_01: That's not speed.
[1:09:16] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not even VO2, most likely.
[1:09:18] SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've dipped into it.
[1:09:19] SPEAKER_00: But um a point to your set, Greg, the the hundreds, why the hundreds might induce more fatigue over the session is you're not just using your ATPPC system, which is the system, the energy system of the three that you use in speed work, you're actually dipping into your glycolytic system because it's taking you, I'm assuming you're probably doing them in like a minute, right?
[1:09:40] SPEAKER_00: And by that stage, you're definitely dipping into your your your anaerobic glycolysis system.
[1:09:46] SPEAKER_00: And so you're going to have more fatigue than someone who keeps it shorter.
[1:09:49] SPEAKER_00: So even the foot four or five by one hundreds isn't necessarily an example of like, you know, strict speed work.
[1:09:57] SPEAKER_00: And if you so if you are wanting to do it like really strictly, you probably do make it 25s or 50s, which is big in the Australian swimming swimming system at the moment.
[1:10:05] SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, our 50-meter gold uh Olympic gold medalist, he does a lot of this stuff where he gets out of the pool and waits 20 minutes between sets uh between reps.
[1:10:12] SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's quite crazy, but but physiologically kind of makes sense.
[1:10:16] SPEAKER_00: Um all right, boys.
[1:10:17] SPEAKER_00: Good training chat, good podcast all up.
[1:10:20] SPEAKER_00: Apo, I still I still feel like we haven't got you quite off the fence, mate.
[1:10:23] SPEAKER_00: So maybe next week we might put you back under the hot seat with some hard-hitting questions and uh and see if you will fully commit to jumping off it.
[1:10:31] SPEAKER_00: But uh good podcast, boys.
[1:10:33] SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Jack.
[1:10:33] SPEAKER_01: When am I gonna get on the hot seat?
[1:10:35] SPEAKER_01: Just sweet and over here waiting.
[1:10:37] SPEAKER_00: Maybe I put you two boys on the hot seat next week.
[1:10:40] SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
[1:10:40] SPEAKER_01: Sounds kinky.
[1:10:44] SPEAKER_00: Also, we gotta we gotta remind people this weekend, uh uh I'll get the times on Instagram, but this weekend we are doing a live alternative commentary stream for T100 Frasieux or France.
[1:10:58] SPEAKER_00: Um, myself and Joe Skipper, we're gonna get together in person.
[1:11:01] SPEAKER_00: So we'll be sitting on a couch together commentating that race.
[1:11:04] SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping to have Greg and Apo on uh and commentate a little bit of it.
[1:11:08] SPEAKER_00: I know Greg's committed, so Greg will be there to walk you through the swim, which I actually think will be super valuable because the swim in commentary is quite tricky and it ends up being quite boring.
[1:11:18] SPEAKER_00: But I think Greg being there to kind of talk about what he's seeing, explain what's going on will be really, really entertaining.
[1:11:25] SPEAKER_00: So tune in from the start of the stream uh for that.
[1:11:28] SPEAKER_00: And Apo, he's the he's the 19 time champ.
[1:11:31] SPEAKER_00: So he's gonna bring he's gonna be bring quality all day.
[1:11:34] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and hopefully Joe brings a few laughs.
[1:11:36] SPEAKER_00: So I'll post that on Instagram on my stories throughout the week, but we're gonna do that on the Triton hour YouTube.
[1:11:41] SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and we'll stream the whole T100 race this this coming weekend on the Saturday uh for you guys to watch if you want a bit of a a different uh a bit of a mix up from the usual broadcast.
[1:11:51] SPEAKER_00: So looking looking forward to that and and looking forward to seeing you two boys on the weekend.
[1:11:55] SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Jack.
[1:11:56] SPEAKER_01: I'm excited as well.
[1:11:58] SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Jack.
[1:11:58] SPEAKER_00: All right, let's uh let's do it.
[1:12:00] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

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