# Triathlete Gets Eaten By Killer Whale!

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 16 Jun 2025, 1 h 22 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698055-triathlete-gets-eaten-by-killer-whale.mp3

Vancouver T100 and Ironman Cairns are on the agenda today so tune in for everything you need to know about those races over the weekend. We then give our opinions on who the male & female mid year triathlete of the year are and what has been the performance of the year so far. Then it’s time for Triathlon Mythbusters (a place where we debunk myths). Sign up to Patreon Here - Patreon link

## Transcript

[0:00] SPEAKER_01: There's never been more triathlon stories.
[0:02] SPEAKER_01: The Triathlon Hour Podcast brings type A's together.
[0:05] SPEAKER_01: Triathlon nerds are watching news and fearless debate.
[0:09] SPEAKER_01: We're invested in you.
[0:10] SPEAKER_01: From Lanzarate to Noosa to Kona.
[0:13] SPEAKER_01: Andrew Messik is listening wherever you are.
[0:15] SPEAKER_01: On Instagram and podcasts, training stories you need, providing you the entertainment that celebrates Triathlon.
[0:21] SPEAKER_01: The triathlon, triathlon opinions, and much more.
[0:26] SPEAKER_01: And we are back, episode four of the Triathlon Hour, new edition.
[0:30] SPEAKER_01: As always, I'm joined by Justin Riale.
[0:33] SPEAKER_02: Jack, great to be back.
[0:35] SPEAKER_01: Ari Clare's back.
[0:36] SPEAKER_01: He hasn't missed an episode yet.
[0:38] SPEAKER_03: Hello, mate.
[0:39] SPEAKER_03: Perfect attendance.
[0:40] SPEAKER_03: You know me, and I've never been late.
[0:42] SPEAKER_01: And we had Sam Appleton last week because Greg Harper last minute decided he couldn't bail.
[0:46] SPEAKER_01: So thank you for Sam to for coming on once again.
[0:49] SPEAKER_01: But Greg is back this week.
[0:52] SPEAKER_05: Sorry to disappoint everyone.
[0:54] SPEAKER_01: And I'm Jack Kelly as always.
[0:55] SPEAKER_01: Okay, you know what it's time for.
[1:01] SPEAKER_01: It's time for this week's edition of Triathlon News Headlines.
[1:06] SPEAKER_01: Discussion included.
[1:10] SPEAKER_02: Now our first triathlon news headline is Yella is the Belgian big dog.
[1:16] SPEAKER_02: Yellow Geans versus Martin Venriel.
[1:19] SPEAKER_02: A duo that we are really enjoying following and is going to shape up to be just a great rivalry the rest of the year.
[1:26] SPEAKER_02: Both Belgian countrymen, but Yella coming out on top at T100 Vancouver yesterday.
[1:30] SPEAKER_02: What do you boys think of the race?
[1:31] SPEAKER_02: Pretty impressive performance by Yella.
[1:33] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, perfect, perfect position all day.
[1:36] SPEAKER_03: I know we were chatting uh pre-race and you guys were putting your podiums up.
[1:39] SPEAKER_03: I I think both of you didn't even have Yella in it, and I was like, I feel like Yella wins this pretty easily.
[1:45] SPEAKER_03: Like, I uh I think as long as he's not super off like Singapore, I think he like yeah, it's kind of a done deal.
[1:51] SPEAKER_03: And then when I was I was watching the race while I was on the trainer, and I was like, he is just doing exactly what he needs to do.
[1:57] SPEAKER_03: Wasn't in that breakaway in the swim, probably just in the main pack, conserving energy, wasn't up the road on the bike, just in that pack, conserving energy.
[2:04] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I figured it was, you know, uh he had it in hand pretty much all day unless something had gone wrong.
[2:12] SPEAKER_03: And another thing I feel like is worth mentioning is that yeah, it was Yellow vs.
[2:16] SPEAKER_03: Martin, but uh Mika Newt with his second consecutive podium just under two minutes back with a one-minute penalty.
[2:26] SPEAKER_03: So I think it's possible he could have threatened Martin for second had that not happened.
[2:33] SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
[2:33] SPEAKER_03: What do you guys think?
[2:34] SPEAKER_05: It's possible for sure.
[2:36] SPEAKER_05: I think the I'll I'll say I was wrong, and Yela and Martin kind of dominated.
[2:40] SPEAKER_05: I think I had them both off my podium, but there's so many good guys, and the highlights of the race for me was Kyle Smith and the official, when he literally told the official you're ruining races, um, that was like, whoa, this is like getting heated out there, which I mean T100 posted it about it too, so I was actually I was I was impressed that they didn't like try to gloss it over and say, hey, nothing ever goes wrong in these races.
[3:02] SPEAKER_05: Not that it did, and then the frickin' orcas in the ocean, uh yeah, that they were showing during the course, and yeah, apparently someone almost got eaten.
[3:12] SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
[3:13] SPEAKER_01: Do you think that the penalties of Kyle and Mika did ruin the race like Kyle said?
[3:18] SPEAKER_05: No, not at all.
[3:19] SPEAKER_05: It there was some drama, and it's just it's one minute, and I would like to see Kyle get off the bike with them, but I mean the referees are just doing their jobs too.
[3:26] SPEAKER_05: And I thought the front four were like they were definitely riding fair, but they were like jocking position a lot too.
[3:32] SPEAKER_05: So I don't know, it's almost inevitable when you switch positions that many times that someone gets stinked.
[3:36] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then it's just are you the one who gets the card?
[3:39] SPEAKER_01: That's that's the hard bit for Kyle because I think he looks at it and goes, Okay, well, maybe, maybe I deserve that penalty.
[3:47] SPEAKER_01: But I also think there's three other guys who probably deserve it just as much as me.
[3:51] SPEAKER_01: And so if you put yourself in Kyle's position there, you're just gonna feel hard done by it.
[3:54] SPEAKER_01: I think observing it, you go, okay, that's probably fair enough.
[3:58] SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's borderline, but it's probably pretty reasonable.
[4:01] SPEAKER_01: However, why was it Kyle when I do think there was two or three guys who it could have been?
[4:06] SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like it's kind of like random draw at that point, isn't it?
[4:10] SPEAKER_01: That's how I felt about it.
[4:12] SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that Kyle didn't deserve it, but it's just uh if one gets it, maybe, maybe a couple of others should have got it as well.
[4:18] SPEAKER_03: I honestly don't know if it changes the results.
[4:21] SPEAKER_02: Well, it does.
[4:22] SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's only 20 seconds off a fourth, which is another several thousand, and he's less than a minute off a third with Mika.
[4:29] SPEAKER_02: So if he doesn't get that penalty and Mika does, he's on the podium.
[4:33] SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's big, right?
[4:35] SPEAKER_02: And then when you chalk up the point differences towards the bonus at the end of the year, but one thing I'll call out at the 20 meter, you have so much more time to make a pass or drop back.
[4:44] SPEAKER_02: I think it's harder to officiate.
[4:46] SPEAKER_02: Like what I think Kyle's explanation was is like he was dropping back from Rico having made a pass on him, and you have 45 seconds to drop back.
[4:54] SPEAKER_02: So, like if the official only sees half of that picture, you know, it's it's tricky.
[5:00] SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think you see all the red lights, you see the changing positions, but it's really tricky to say, all right, exactly how is the race unfolding and who's been in the position for how many seconds.
[5:08] SPEAKER_02: You have to make a little bit of a judgment call, I guess, if you're a ref.
[5:11] SPEAKER_02: But again, isn't that why we reduced the penalties or why they reduced the penalties to just one minute so that these calls wouldn't really ruin races like they used to at three and five minutes?
[5:20] SPEAKER_01: So to circle back to your headline, Justin, that Yalla is the big dog.
[5:24] SPEAKER_01: I think the battle between Yalla and Martin was really fascinating.
[5:28] SPEAKER_01: If you we saw Vegas last year, that was their first battle together.
[5:32] SPEAKER_01: Obviously, Yalla got the better of Martin then, and then again here, Yalla gets the better of Martin.
[5:38] SPEAKER_01: In your mind, is it just cemented that Yalla is better than Martin Van Reel over this distance?
[5:43] SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think so.
[5:44] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that's why that's why we race and why we have a whole series.
[5:47] SPEAKER_02: Um, I think courses are unique and individual.
[5:49] SPEAKER_02: Yellow has proven to be just a little bit sharper on the run right now, but you know, Martin did an early season full distance Iron Man.
[5:55] SPEAKER_02: You can't underestimate how much that can take the wind out of your sails in terms of that top end.
[5:59] SPEAKER_02: So I think he might introduce that back.
[6:01] SPEAKER_02: And it'll kind of depend on how he chooses to prioritize, I think, his his the rest of his season for the T100 series versus trying to win her podium at Nice.
[6:10] SPEAKER_01: We are seeing like a bit of a pattern now in T100, right?
[6:13] SPEAKER_01: Where the best men are kind of cementing themselves as the best men, like Mika, obviously, multiple podiums.
[6:19] SPEAKER_01: Gala with the win on the weekend and multiple podiums, Rico Bogan as well.
[6:23] SPEAKER_01: We we're starting to kind of establish a core group of men who are competing for the win.
[6:27] SPEAKER_01: And I think what we're seeing now is that of the 20 men who are racing, there's clearly a lot who aren't competing for the win, and and a quite a small number who are.
[6:37] SPEAKER_01: Like maybe the number is like five, six, seven people every time the races are going to be happening are competing for the win, and then we've got between 15 and you know 12 people who are there probably not going to compete for the win.
[6:50] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but wouldn't you argue, Jack, in triathlon, that that's like more than average?
[6:54] SPEAKER_02: You know, if you take your typical oceanside or, you know, a non-T-100 race, maybe outside of 70.3 Worlds or this upcoming race we have in Frankfurt.
[7:06] SPEAKER_02: It seems like normally there's like two or three guys that are racing for the win.
[7:09] SPEAKER_02: So I I've been pretty entertained because I look at these top six in particular, Yellow Martin, Mika, Kyle Rico, like five of those top six are always at the top, duking it out in any race.
[7:20] SPEAKER_02: And you know, you got a couple other guys, Batado sure had some hype coming in.
[7:24] SPEAKER_02: You know, you got Pearson West, the Americans who are the super runners, but not quite hanging on the bike.
[7:29] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you're not wrong, Jack.
[7:30] SPEAKER_02: But I think like, I don't know, what do you guys think?
[7:32] SPEAKER_02: My perspective is like six is better than we usually have.
[7:34] SPEAKER_01: I think it's a heaps.
[7:35] SPEAKER_01: I think it's heaps, and I think it's good.
[7:36] SPEAKER_01: Throwing Leo Bergier there and Hayden Wild when he's there, I think it's actually a really good group.
[7:41] SPEAKER_01: I I I don't I didn't mean that to sound negative.
[7:43] SPEAKER_01: I thought I what I was meaning to say is we've just got an established group now who are fighting for the win.
[7:49] SPEAKER_01: Like take Morgan and Jason, for example.
[7:51] SPEAKER_01: They're the guys who aren't in the group, but the group's strong, you know, on any day, depending on the course and the conditions, Martin, Yala, Rico, Mika, Leo, Hayden, Kyle can all win one of these races, I think.
[8:05] SPEAKER_03: Can you actually list those people again?
[8:06] SPEAKER_03: Because I think there's three or four in there who very clearly, if all those guys are in there, half of them will not win.
[8:13] SPEAKER_01: Okay, Rico Bogan.
[8:15] SPEAKER_01: Can win because he has one.
[8:16] SPEAKER_03: Yes, you can't can win, yes.
[8:17] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Hayden Wilde, he's also one.
[8:19] SPEAKER_01: Yalikan's he's also one.
[8:21] SPEAKER_01: So those three can.
[8:22] SPEAKER_01: Then you've got Mikanu.
[8:24] SPEAKER_05: No.
[8:25] SPEAKER_05: You were just saying he was fighting for a second if he hadn't got the penalty.
[8:28] SPEAKER_05: Like, what are you talking about, dude?
[8:30] SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's best case though.
[8:31] SPEAKER_03: But if you if you then put Leo in there and you put Hayden in there, like, no.
[8:37] SPEAKER_03: He's yes, he's podium threat for sure, but fighting for the win is like, I feel like even if everything goes perfectly, if Yellow was off, if Martin was off, you'd need Hayden to be off, you'd need Leo to be off, and you'd need all those other guys who are around the same level, like Rico and Kyle, to also be off.
[8:55] SPEAKER_03: Because like those guys can beat him too.
[8:56] SPEAKER_03: So I feel like Kyle also in the same boat of like, if you have all those dudes in there, no, I don't think he can win.
[9:02] SPEAKER_03: He can podium, but I really think only Yella, Martin, Hayden, and Rico can win.
[9:10] SPEAKER_03: And Leo.
[9:11] SPEAKER_03: If all eight of those guys, no, I think if all eight of those guys are in there, I don't think Leo is gonna win.
[9:16] SPEAKER_02: He's literally just naming the guys that have won.
[9:19] SPEAKER_01: You're saying no can ever win.
[9:22] SPEAKER_01: You don't think Leo Bergier can win one of these races?
[9:25] SPEAKER_03: Leo's about to win the entire series, dude.
[9:28] SPEAKER_03: You don't even know.
[9:28] SPEAKER_03: Are you kidding me?
[9:29] SPEAKER_03: If all eight are in there, um no, I think only four of if you didn't name eight names, I think only four can actually win the race.
[9:37] SPEAKER_03: Again, if all eight are on the line.
[9:39] SPEAKER_02: Here's another take.
[9:40] SPEAKER_02: Morgan Pearson can win a T-100 race.
[9:42] SPEAKER_01: That's a hot type.
[9:43] SPEAKER_02: He's in his second race, and he just had the fastest run by a lot, and he has never been to the wind tunnel, to my knowledge, and he's just learning long course.
[9:52] SPEAKER_03: I think on an easier bike course.
[9:57] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
[9:58] SPEAKER_03: Front Park Swarmers sits in the front group and outruns the field.
[10:00] SPEAKER_03: He could run the action.
[10:02] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think.
[10:02] SPEAKER_01: Maybe next year.
[10:04] SPEAKER_03: Do you think he's one arrow testing trip away from being able to win on a sort of easier bike course?
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
[10:11] SPEAKER_01: I think he's further away from than that.
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think his bike's just a little bit off the level.
[10:15] SPEAKER_01: Like he had the fastest run on the weekend and he still finishes four minutes behind this group.
[10:19] SPEAKER_01: I just if Rico's drilling it off the front, Hayden's drilling it off the front, Martin, Matthias Margier, Leo, I just I don't see how you can get that much better on the bike in just a couple of months, especially when you're racing the whole time.
[10:32] SPEAKER_02: I could tell you how, Jack.
[10:34] SPEAKER_02: You change the 20-meter to 12 meter and you send it, you send him a 70.3 world, he could win.
[10:39] SPEAKER_03: Different, different racing.
[10:40] SPEAKER_03: Different racing.
[10:42] SPEAKER_03: It is doable.
[10:42] SPEAKER_03: His run is that caliber.
[10:43] SPEAKER_03: Also, another guy who we we all had so much hype around, Bidados, I thought he was a threat to win San Francisco, and I figured, oh, okay, he was sick, we'll see how he goes in Vancouver.
[10:54] SPEAKER_03: And well, not a he's just his bike's not there yet.
[10:57] SPEAKER_03: He's I think he's that caliber of runner as as Morgan and Yela.
[11:01] SPEAKER_02: He DNF'd the race before I even caught him in San Francisco, though.
[11:05] SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know.
[11:06] SPEAKER_02: I think he he drilled it to the front in San Francisco, you know, and then he kind of seemed like he, I don't know, did he just fade?
[11:12] SPEAKER_02: He rode 148.
[11:13] SPEAKER_02: He outrode Jason and Morgan by three minutes in Vancouver.
[11:16] SPEAKER_01: A combination of things, right?
[11:17] SPEAKER_01: He was injured.
[11:18] SPEAKER_01: So prior to San Francisco and Vancouver, he missed three weeks of running and consistent training, which you guys know.
[11:25] SPEAKER_01: You miss that time, it just throws your rhythm and and and kind of momentum off.
[11:30] SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know how big a factor that's playing, but even if it's just like two or three percent, that's enough at these T100 races.
[11:36] SPEAKER_01: Like Fred Funk always says, if you're five percent off, you may as well not show up to a T100 race.
[11:40] SPEAKER_01: And then he's just experiencing what the bike is like at the top level, exactly like Morgan is.
[11:45] SPEAKER_01: And Bidados's bike just isn't quite where it needs to be yet.
[11:49] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because he held his own time-wise, but I think he just wasn't able to express his run.
[11:53] SPEAKER_02: Um, and we saw something similar with you know, Brazilian hyped-up wildcard Hidalgo was in the race until he wasn't, and then he was walking on the run before DNFing.
[12:04] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know about Hidalgo, but I think Bidados, I mean, dude, he's 21.
[12:07] SPEAKER_03: I think he turns 22 this year.
[12:09] SPEAKER_03: I think uh people don't have like hype like this behind them, usually for nothing.
[12:13] SPEAKER_03: I think give it one year, two years, whatever.
[12:17] SPEAKER_03: However much time.
[12:18] SPEAKER_03: In four years, he'll be 25.
[12:20] SPEAKER_03: I feel like he will be crushing T100 races by then.
[12:23] SPEAKER_03: It just takes a little bit for the for the bike to develop.
[12:26] SPEAKER_03: Um, also glad we still have Sam Long around after there was some orca spotted in the water.
[12:31] SPEAKER_03: He drafted in the race, dude.
[12:33] SPEAKER_03: He drafted the Orcans.
[12:35] SPEAKER_03: That's why he was so close.
[12:36] SPEAKER_03: That was like his best deficit.
[12:38] SPEAKER_02: I mean, so I asked Greg this yesterday.
[12:40] SPEAKER_02: Like, Greg, obviously, strongest swimmer in Triathlon.
[12:44] SPEAKER_02: If you were solo off the front in a T100 race, sighting the next buoy, and you saw an orca, what would you do?
[12:50] SPEAKER_05: Stop.
[12:50] SPEAKER_05: I would wait for everyone else to be like, what should we do, guys?
[12:54] SPEAKER_02: That's right.
[12:54] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I don't think I would just keep swimming towards a killer whale, would you, Ari?
[12:59] SPEAKER_03: Okay.
[12:59] SPEAKER_02: They don't hurt humans.
[13:01] SPEAKER_04: Orcas don't they don't harm humans outside of captivity.
[13:05] SPEAKER_03: I looked this up because I wanted to swim across the Puget Sound, and my main worry after looking up, you know, because there's orcas in there and jellyfish, but the main worry is like there's also fairies that you could get hit by.
[13:15] SPEAKER_03: Um, but apparently they're very smart, and apparently humans are too like bony.
[13:20] SPEAKER_03: They'd look at your body and they'd be like, there's no meat on there, and they wouldn't even try to eat you because it's a waste of their time.
[13:26] SPEAKER_01: But see, that's just a theory that someone's come up with as to why.
[13:29] SPEAKER_01: Like, as if an orca's brain's looking at you and going, too much bone in that, I won't eat that.
[13:34] SPEAKER_01: I'm not buying that.
[13:35] SPEAKER_01: It's just not it's just not often that an orca and a human come into a situation together where there's a hungry orca and a human swimming there.
[13:42] SPEAKER_01: I'm not buying that an orca wouldn't eat a human.
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: They eat sharks.
[13:46] SPEAKER_01: Like, they're obviously going to eat you if they're hungry enough.
[13:49] SPEAKER_05: In a wetsuit, too.
[13:50] SPEAKER_05: You're looking like a seal, you're looking like you know, you're not looking like a regular old human.
[13:55] SPEAKER_05: They're gonna take a chunk.
[13:56] SPEAKER_05: Looking like a snack, Sam Long off the back by himself, big meat, lunch.
[14:00] SPEAKER_03: And we'll draper.
[14:02] SPEAKER_03: I say it, but yeah, no, I would probably swim the opposite direction.
[14:06] SPEAKER_03: Or I don't know.
[14:07] SPEAKER_03: I'd be terrified.
[14:08] SPEAKER_03: I'd be so fucking scared.
[14:10] SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was literally next to the buoy.
[14:12] SPEAKER_02: It was crazy, the drone shot they showed.
[14:13] SPEAKER_02: And there was a couple of them.
[14:15] SPEAKER_02: But everyone was out of the water.
[14:17] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like thank God, right?
[14:19] SPEAKER_02: Well, they've canceled the race.
[14:20] SPEAKER_02: Orca breaches around turn buoy number two.
[14:22] SPEAKER_02: I mean, dude, that would have been crazy.
[14:24] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's my question, Justin.
[14:26] SPEAKER_01: If you're the T100 brass, is it net positive for the T100 or net negative if an athlete gets eaten by an orca on the weekend?
[14:38] SPEAKER_04: Oh, you know, I don't know.
[14:41] SPEAKER_02: I can picture that board room meeting Jack just like sitting around going, all right, how do we spin this, boys?
[14:47] SPEAKER_02: What reel are we posting now?
[14:49] SPEAKER_01: If Sam Long got eaten by an orca on the weekend, Triathlon has never been a bigger deal in mainstream life ever.
[14:57] SPEAKER_01: It would it would never have been talked about more and will never be talked about more.
[15:01] SPEAKER_01: Imagine, imagine the headlines.
[15:03] SPEAKER_01: It would be all over every news outlet in the world.
[15:06] SPEAKER_05: It can't be Sam Long, though.
[15:08] SPEAKER_05: If it was Ari off the back, good for Triathlon.
[15:10] SPEAKER_05: Sam Long, definitely not.
[15:12] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[15:13] SPEAKER_03: I mean, we get the Sam Long Memorial T100 Vancouver 2026.
[15:17] SPEAKER_03: It'd be a pretty sick race.
[15:22] SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's Ari's only chance at a wild card.
[15:25] SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say.
[15:57] SPEAKER_01: What's going on with Fred's season?
[15:59] SPEAKER_01: I've got I've got a question about that.
[16:01] SPEAKER_01: What's going on with Fred Funk's season?
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: Because he's a long way off at the moment.
[16:04] SPEAKER_02: It's got you got it, you got the inside track to you.
[16:06] SPEAKER_02: I was to say you're his best mate.
[16:08] SPEAKER_02: You got the strip club running with him, the only fans.
[16:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why I wanted you guys to answer it though.
[16:12] SPEAKER_01: Too close to home for me.
[16:14] SPEAKER_03: Too much time on OnlyFans, obviously.
[16:16] SPEAKER_03: I feel like he's gonna go pretty pretty solid in Roth in three weeks.
[16:21] SPEAKER_03: Uh, I know on you know his Instagram his reasons were he hasn't swam in three weeks, which I don't know, Greg resident swim expert.
[16:28] SPEAKER_03: How valid is that?
[16:29] SPEAKER_03: You go from he probably he would have been in that front pack to he's now swimming with Sam.
[16:34] SPEAKER_03: I mean he's fringe anyway, so it's not too.
[16:36] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he came out with Sam.
[16:38] SPEAKER_02: No, he was two minutes, he was he was ahead of Sam.
[16:40] SPEAKER_02: He was a minute and a half.
[16:40] SPEAKER_02: He came out with Jackson Laundry, Nico Mann, uh, but it was a small group that got split.
[16:45] SPEAKER_03: Okay, the tracker was then the tracker was like incorrect at one point because it was Sam, Fred.
[16:50] SPEAKER_03: Maybe they just listed Nico's name as Sam or something, because I was like, oh shit, like that's a good that's a great deficit for Sam.
[16:56] SPEAKER_03: I thought he was swimming great.
[16:57] SPEAKER_03: What was what was Sam's final deficit then?
[16:59] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there were three groups.
[17:00] SPEAKER_02: The front front group was like 25 minutes with like 15 guys, and then there was Nico Mann, Fred Funk, and Jackson Laundry together.
[17:08] SPEAKER_03: Okay, the tracker was in four minutes at one point.
[17:11] SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I I don't know.
[17:14] SPEAKER_03: I feel like he's always uh the kind of guy who comes around to towards the middle and end of the season.
[17:20] SPEAKER_03: Uh and like he he's not a T100 podium level guy.
[17:26] SPEAKER_03: I think his swim and bike are there on his good days.
[17:29] SPEAKER_03: Uh I think his run even on a great day is is just not podium level.
[17:34] SPEAKER_03: Uh but yeah, he's just a little bit off, and that gets so exacerbated in these fields.
[17:40] SPEAKER_03: Like the whole the last place, 17th, Jake Bertwistle was still like 12 minutes behind Yela on probably what I I assume he would say is an awful day.
[17:49] SPEAKER_03: It's not like it looks bad, but it's not like the worst result of all time.
[17:56] SPEAKER_03: It's not like you're out there walking, it's not like he was out there pushing 200 watts.
[17:59] SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just the field is so much.
[18:04] SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
[18:05] SPEAKER_03: Uh I think it looks I think it looks worse than it is.
[18:09] SPEAKER_03: If I was Fred Funk talking with my coach Dan Lorang, I'd probably be like, let's, you know, we don't gotta change anything.
[18:14] SPEAKER_03: Miss three weeks of swimming.
[18:16] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[18:16] SPEAKER_03: Like the level is so high.
[18:18] SPEAKER_03: We've got an our first Iron Man for full distance in three weeks.
[18:22] SPEAKER_03: There's a whole second half of the T100 season.
[18:25] SPEAKER_03: Let's just let's just keep on keep on trucking.
[18:28] SPEAKER_02: I'm sure we could talk about this for a long time, but and I don't know if any of us have the experience, but I I texted Fred uh like a month ago asking for some advice on an altitude camp that I'm gonna be doing in August, and one of the things he said is like altitude camps before races can be risky, and then he basically he's like you can you can come out of them feeling super flat, and he's like, We'll see how this one goes, and he just went and did altitude for three weeks and then posted his race result and was like, Yeah, it was flat.
[18:54] SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
[18:55] SPEAKER_02: I again I don't have enough experience to like dive into the how to or the pros and cons of doing three weeks at altitude before a big race, but I think there's like from the little I know, it just seems like you're rolling the dice a little bit.
[19:06] SPEAKER_01: If I had if I had told you at the start of the season that Fred would finish 16th and 16th in his first two T100 starts this year, would you have said, yeah, that sounds about right, or would you have been surprised?
[19:17] SPEAKER_03: A little surprised, but but not crazy surprised.
[19:20] SPEAKER_03: For sure.
[19:22] SPEAKER_05: No, he's like a he's like a solid like seventh to eleventh guy, like kind of always.
[19:27] SPEAKER_05: I feel like he doesn't really fall that far down, but just small things.
[19:30] SPEAKER_05: And Fred's the one who said it to you, Jack.
[19:32] SPEAKER_05: Just you get exposed a bit.
[19:34] SPEAKER_05: And you're flat, you're Iron Man training.
[19:36] SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I'd be surprised, but we're all friends of uh fans of Fred, and I think he'll do well at challenge off.
[19:42] SPEAKER_01: I I reckon anytime he races in America, he just doesn't do well.
[19:46] SPEAKER_01: Um and Singapore, I don't think the heat really suits him.
[19:49] SPEAKER_01: So I think once he gets back to Europe, he'll have a good race.
[19:52] SPEAKER_01: But yeah, if I was Fred, I just would stop racing in America full stop because he always flies over there for yeah, results like this, and it's kind of not worth his time or money, I reckon.
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: I reckon to speak in Europe.
[20:02] SPEAKER_03: Very true.
[20:03] SPEAKER_03: All right, on to the women's, where Taylor Nib made Swiss cheese out of Julie Duran.
[20:09] SPEAKER_03: Uh Taylor Nib got her revenge, silences the haters and the doubters, uh, saying maybe she's not that fit, maybe she's got Iron Man legs, maybe she just doesn't love it that much anymore.
[20:20] SPEAKER_03: And wins T-100 Vancouver in a fairly dominant, I or I would say normal Taylor Nib fashion.
[20:29] SPEAKER_03: Swims in the in the front group with uh four or five other women in there, led by Lucy Charles Barkley.
[20:35] SPEAKER_03: And then on the bike, not solo.
[20:37] SPEAKER_03: Uh Jess Learmonth was, I guess, the first person ever to actually ride the an entire T-100 race with Taylor Nib.
[20:46] SPEAKER_03: Uh, I guess people have done it for for short periods, but you uh every other time Taylor Nib's been off the front solo.
[20:54] SPEAKER_03: Um I mean, do you think she just wasn't worried?
[20:56] SPEAKER_03: She's like, oh, that's Jess, I'm gonna run two or three minutes faster than her, like it'll be it's good to have a partner.
[21:01] SPEAKER_03: Or do you think I mean Jess is obviously extremely strong, but how much of it is Taylor wasn't worried about it, she knows she can outrun Jess, or it's just like she couldn't go off the front even if she wanted to.
[21:15] SPEAKER_01: I think that she would have been stoked that Jess was there.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: I think this Vancouver course is like a really good mix of being a strong, a strong cyclist course versus like a technical cyclist course.
[21:25] SPEAKER_01: It's got really good elements of both.
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: Taylor's great at the strong man sections, and Taylor's not as great at the technical section, but Jess is really good at both.
[21:34] SPEAKER_01: So I think having Jess's wheel to follow at certain points in this Vancouver course helped Taylor a lot to get the establish the lead that she did get from like your Julies and Ashes and Lucy's behind.
[21:43] SPEAKER_01: So I think she would have been stoked.
[21:45] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, honestly, I think Taylor would look at Jess and respect her, but know that at the end of the day she can outrun her as well.
[21:50] SPEAKER_01: So I kind of think that was like the perfect scenario for Taylor.
[21:54] SPEAKER_05: I'm not surprised I'm not surprised like what happened.
[21:57] SPEAKER_05: I think I texted you guys that I actually picked the woman's race, right?
[21:59] SPEAKER_05: I was.
[22:00] SPEAKER_05: Like, oh, Taylor's gonna win by three minutes.
[22:01] SPEAKER_05: It was a real swim.
[22:02] SPEAKER_05: Julie got dropped.
[22:03] SPEAKER_05: She's gonna have to work harder in the swim.
[22:05] SPEAKER_05: The course maybe didn't suit her quite as well.
[22:07] SPEAKER_05: And I think Jack was really spot on with because Jess came around Taylor a couple times through the technical parts, too.
[22:13] SPEAKER_05: So it's like maybe having that wheel to follow a little bit helped Taylor through some of that section, which you know helped her increase her lead.
[22:20] SPEAKER_05: So um yeah, pretty standard stuff, I think.
[22:23] SPEAKER_03: One thing I want to ask before I go for my very controversial sub-headline.
[22:28] SPEAKER_03: Uh Lucy Charles Barkley, uh, what do we think?
[22:31] SPEAKER_03: Fourth place, never really like a uh a threat, I guess, for the win.
[22:36] SPEAKER_03: But were we expecting that?
[22:38] SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, after I I know we talked a great deal at Eagle Man last week with her battle uh versus Chelsea, uh, that she seemed to be in really good shape.
[22:48] SPEAKER_03: Are you guys because I I personally am not super surprised.
[22:52] SPEAKER_03: I figured that's like maybe she could get on the podium, but I figured that's kind of around where she was.
[22:57] SPEAKER_03: Are you guys surprised?
[22:58] SPEAKER_03: Thought she'd do better.
[23:00] SPEAKER_01: I I thought it's exactly where I would want to see Lucy.
[23:02] SPEAKER_01: I was like, I asked myself this same question.
[23:04] SPEAKER_01: If I was Lucy's coach, or if I was team Lucy, what would I think of that?
[23:09] SPEAKER_01: And I think that Lucy's problem is she gets too fit too early sometimes, and then she gets injured or burnt out or whatever it is.
[23:17] SPEAKER_01: And so with Lucy, I just love where she's at.
[23:20] SPEAKER_01: She's not at her best, but she's still a really high level.
[23:23] SPEAKER_01: Her obvious peak this year is going to be Kona.
[23:26] SPEAKER_01: Like she would give up everything to win Kona again.
[23:28] SPEAKER_01: So I love where she's at.
[23:30] SPEAKER_01: I think that I think that exactly where she's at now is exactly where she would want to be.
[23:34] SPEAKER_01: Kind of like 85% fit.
[23:37] SPEAKER_01: Probably sets her up perfectly for a for a Kona build, as long as she doesn't get injured and try and push things too far by you know training like crazy to try and win a race like Vancouver.
[23:46] SPEAKER_01: So I I I saw it and I thought that's perfect.
[23:48] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, figured figured about the same.
[23:51] SPEAKER_03: My sub-headline.
[23:53] SPEAKER_03: Many might find this controversial, but Ash Gentle.
[23:59] SPEAKER_03: Is her era over?
[24:02] SPEAKER_03: Or was she never the queen of the 100k distance to begin with?
[24:06] SPEAKER_01: That's not the headline you told us you were gonna go with off air.
[24:12] SPEAKER_01: Switching it off.
[24:16] SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
[24:18] SPEAKER_03: I think well I brought it up because I I think that alright.
[24:23] SPEAKER_03: It's it's tough to say Ash Gentle was never that good, and I have to clarify exactly what I mean.
[24:31] SPEAKER_03: One of the best athletes in the world, but I feel like the way that she had been talked about off the back of the the wins in uh like 22 and 23 when the when the PTO was like really just getting started.
[24:43] SPEAKER_03: I mean, it wasn't even the T100 yet.
[24:45] SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then before Taylor Nib and Julie Duran were on the scene, and now Kate Waff and Jess Liermonth.
[24:53] SPEAKER_03: Uh she was winning all these races, uh, and she's still beating the women who were also in those races.
[25:00] SPEAKER_03: So it's I don't think her level has dropped off all that much.
[25:03] SPEAKER_03: I just think the level of the T-100 has ridden considerably.
[25:07] SPEAKER_03: And so off the backs of those wins, she still talked about as like, oh, she's a she's a threat to win these races.
[25:13] SPEAKER_03: And I I don't think she is.
[25:16] SPEAKER_03: I think she's a a tier below the Taylor Nibbs and the Julie Durance, and always was.
[25:21] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean the thing about Ash is she's really solid across all three, but I don't know if she has I mean she doesn't have Julie's run or Taylor's bike, so it seems like you need like a gift to win these races and be a level of yeah, you need a weapon, and Ash is just always really, really good across all three.
[25:46] SPEAKER_02: And it's like, is that good enough anymore to actually win?
[25:50] SPEAKER_05: No, her run was an insane weapon, and like especially in some hot conditions, she's known to like do really well.
[25:56] SPEAKER_05: So yeah, there's more there's more talent in it, but it's like she's also beaten everyone.
[26:01] SPEAKER_05: Like Jack was listening to him, she's beaten Taylor, she's beaten Lucy, she's beaten them all multiple times.
[26:07] SPEAKER_05: Like she was at the top, but it's like it's hard to stay at the tippy top.
[26:10] SPEAKER_05: Like, if Ash comes back next year and like wins the tour and everyone else is a little bit like on the back foot, I wouldn't be surprised.
[26:16] SPEAKER_03: That would be crazy, though.
[26:17] SPEAKER_03: I'm saying the level that Taylor is at today and the level that Julie Duran is at today.
[26:21] SPEAKER_03: I understand where those two women were at last weekend or two weekends ago.
[26:25] SPEAKER_03: I don't think Ash was ever, ever at that level.
[26:28] SPEAKER_03: I am I understand what you're saying, and I think you're wrong.
[26:31] SPEAKER_01: I think it's like it, I think you like it's hard to look back in time and go, well, because like the example I use is I don't think Jan Fredino would win a T100 race this year with the the level of performance he put in to win the US Open.
[26:42] SPEAKER_01: But at the time he was the best in the world, and at the time he did win it, which is the exact same with Ash.
[26:47] SPEAKER_01: Like she almost undoubtedly was the best in the world over the T-100 distance at one point in time.
[26:53] SPEAKER_01: She's not now.
[26:54] SPEAKER_01: Taylor's the best in the world over at it now, I believe.
[26:57] SPEAKER_01: Julie Duron's probably second, and Kate Wolf and Ash Gentle and Kat Matthews are in that that fight for the next.
[27:03] SPEAKER_01: But to say that she was was never that good is literally like it's a psychopathic statement.
[27:09] SPEAKER_01: She's won five of these races, five PTO races.
[27:12] SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, no, no, like that's just insane.
[27:15] SPEAKER_01: Like what she she beat everyone, she's beaten every single person who's won another another race.
[27:21] SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, you know, uh it just it's just insane.
[27:24] SPEAKER_01: Like she was awesome, her run was obviously a weapon.
[27:27] SPEAKER_01: Okay, she's like 34, she's not quite as good as what she was.
[27:31] SPEAKER_01: She's had some changes, like she changed.
[27:33] SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, okay.
[27:33] SPEAKER_03: Wait, so do you think do you think two years ago, uh her form two years ago, yesterday, she's in contention to win the race?
[27:41] SPEAKER_01: But does it matter?
[27:42] SPEAKER_01: Like, does it really matter?
[27:44] SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, say say if Ash's best was two years ago, yeah, Triathlon's better now than what it was two years ago.
[27:49] SPEAKER_01: It'll be better in two more years and two more years and two more years.
[27:52] SPEAKER_01: I think it's silly to go, well, just because this this performance she put in two years ago isn't as good as what a performance is now.
[27:59] SPEAKER_01: Like, who cares?
[28:00] SPEAKER_01: Yes, Ash isn't the best in the world right now.
[28:03] SPEAKER_01: Taylor will beat Ash at almost every race they go to now.
[28:07] SPEAKER_01: But but who cares?
[28:08] SPEAKER_01: Ash won that race two years ago.
[28:10] SPEAKER_01: She was obviously, if not the best in the world, one of the best in the world.
[28:13] SPEAKER_01: She's won five of them.
[28:14] SPEAKER_02: I mean, here's here's what's also crazy about Trathon is Trathlon has such a short memory.
[28:19] SPEAKER_02: Like, we're saying two years ago, but it was la it was less than a year ago that she wiped the floor at London and outran Lucy Charles Barclay by seven minutes to when neither Taylor nor Julie Duran were there.
[28:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but this is crazy because she has winning records against almost everyone.
[28:36] SPEAKER_01: Like she's 75% winning against Kat Matthews.
[28:39] SPEAKER_01: And how good's Kat right now?
[28:41] SPEAKER_01: You know, she's she's 83% winning against Annie Hague, who's an Iron Man world champion.
[28:46] SPEAKER_01: Like, she has winning records against almost everyone.
[28:48] SPEAKER_01: She's beaten Julie Duron multiple times.
[28:50] SPEAKER_01: She's beaten everyone.
[28:52] SPEAKER_01: She's beaten Laura Phillip more than Laura Phillips beaten her.
[28:55] SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the what's the point here?
[28:56] SPEAKER_01: Just because she's not the best, it doesn't mean she's she was ever that good.
[29:00] SPEAKER_01: She was clearly like amazing.
[29:02] SPEAKER_05: Ari, we get what you're about to say, but it's a dumb question, is what we're telling you.
[29:06] SPEAKER_05: Or like it's like comparing it's like yeah, onwards.
[29:10] SPEAKER_05: Onwards.
[29:11] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's she's not the best right now, but Taylor's the best right now.
[29:15] SPEAKER_01: We all know that.
[29:16] SPEAKER_01: But uh there can only ever be one person who's the best at a given time.
[29:19] SPEAKER_01: And just because Ash might be like the fifth best right now, it still it doesn't mean she was never that good.
[29:24] SPEAKER_01: Like, how many people can ever say they're the fifth best at something in the world?
[29:27] SPEAKER_01: She's clearly incredible.
[29:29] SPEAKER_01: But can she win one of these things?
[29:31] SPEAKER_01: No, maybe it's gonna be hard for her.
[29:32] SPEAKER_01: Maybe she needs some people to not be at the races and things to go really well, and maybe the best she can do is second or third now.
[29:39] SPEAKER_01: But how many people would take that in that field?
[29:42] SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, you guys are just telling me that the the statement is is silly.
[29:48] SPEAKER_03: But you also admitted that Jan Fredino at his form at the US Open two years ago would not win a T100 today, which almost proves my point.
[29:58] SPEAKER_03: It's like Ash was the queen of the T100 at a time when the level was lower.
[30:04] SPEAKER_03: That's I mean, that's really my point.
[30:06] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, except for the fact you said was she ever good?
[30:13] SPEAKER_03: I know, I never see I I I tried to clear I never said she was never good, I said that good.
[30:20] SPEAKER_03: And really, there's only two people who are that good right now.
[30:24] SPEAKER_03: Maybe three.
[30:24] SPEAKER_03: Kate Wolf wasn't here.
[30:26] SPEAKER_03: Taylor Nib, Julie Duron are are that good.
[30:30] SPEAKER_03: Everyone else is just good, they're not that good.
[30:32] SPEAKER_01: Off air, you did say Ash Gento was never really that good though.
[30:36] SPEAKER_02: We're still saying that I think I think already's clarifying that good equals Julie Duron and Taylor Nib's level.
[30:42] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[30:43] SPEAKER_02: And if you're saying, hey, she hasn't beat them at that new level this year, I think I think that's a fact, and we'll see the rest of the season if she can't.
[30:55] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree.
[30:56] SPEAKER_01: That is a fact this year.
[30:57] SPEAKER_01: It's so hard to compare generations though.
[30:59] SPEAKER_01: Like, who knows?
[31:00] SPEAKER_01: Who knows if you inserted Ash from that time into now?
[31:03] SPEAKER_01: Like, it's just those hypotheticals are hard, but I think you're right in that she's not she's not the best in the world now, and she probably she probably isn't gonna be again, but she's still very good.
[31:12] SPEAKER_02: I agree.
[31:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, look, if you take 16-year-old Jack in a cross-country high school race and put him up against me, he's gonna kick my ass.
[31:20] SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the year, when we have our little run bat, you never know who's gonna win.
[31:25] SPEAKER_03: I know who's gonna win.
[31:27] SPEAKER_01: Um, some other talking points from the women's race is like I I don't think there, from my perspective, is that many about individual people.
[31:33] SPEAKER_01: I just want to make a comment on Vancouver as a whole.
[31:36] SPEAKER_01: I thought it was the best T100 race of the year, like venue combined of how both the races went, broadcast.
[31:42] SPEAKER_01: I thought it was all very good.
[31:43] SPEAKER_01: I was like quite positive about it.
[31:45] SPEAKER_01: Um, I love I just loved that Vancouver for the race venue.
[31:48] SPEAKER_01: I I think they should keep going back to the back to there.
[31:51] SPEAKER_05: The finish line was actually epic, and they had so many cool shots.
[31:54] SPEAKER_05: Like when they were swimming in the Vancouver in the background finish line, and they would zoom out on purpose.
[31:59] SPEAKER_05: It reminded me of like pro cycling, like in the Peloton.
[32:02] SPEAKER_05: You know, when they do those sweeping shots of like great places, which makes it a visual product?
[32:06] SPEAKER_05: Like, I got those vibes, which is a good vibe you want, because that's what they're trying to do, and you need that if you're gonna like pull in audiences from from outside of triathlon, essentially.
[32:16] SPEAKER_01: Did you boys listen to the interview with Taylor Nib after the race?
[32:19] SPEAKER_02: Oh, where she like shut down the reporter and was like, I read the talking points and I would like to take over this conversation.
[32:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how funny was it?
[32:26] SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was cracking up.
[32:27] SPEAKER_02: I I was like, oh, Jack, Jack would have a tough time interviewing her.
[32:31] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I said to you, Justin, the thing with Taylor that you've got to realize is if you're if you're talking to her on camera, you just can't say anything that's wrong.
[32:40] SPEAKER_01: Like you have to say everything like you can't you can't speculate or hypothesize or say something that has a tiny little bit of of like incorrectness about it.
[32:50] SPEAKER_01: It's got to be all perfectly factually correct, or Taylor will pick you up on it and go to town on your Yeah.
[32:57] SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm afraid of talking about Taylor Nib on this podcast.
[33:00] SPEAKER_02: I'll be first to admit it.
[33:02] SPEAKER_02: Can somebody just brief me on this?
[33:03] SPEAKER_02: I didn't see it.
[33:04] SPEAKER_02: She basically they they said how did like something about you lost your undefeated T100 record in San Francisco and now you've gotten redemption?
[33:12] SPEAKER_02: And she was like, That's not true.
[33:14] SPEAKER_02: I lost a race when we were PTO.
[33:16] SPEAKER_02: Just because you did a little rebrand doesn't mean I can you can call it an undefeated record.
[33:21] SPEAKER_02: And also my goal, like my goal is never to have an undefeated record.
[33:25] SPEAKER_02: So stop asking me about it, basically.
[33:27] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she goes, if I get married and if you get married and change your name, like say it goes from Taylor Nib to Taylor Harper.
[33:33] SPEAKER_01: Now does she suddenly have an undefeated record again?
[33:37] SPEAKER_01: It was it was pretty funny.
[33:40] SPEAKER_04: She said that on air.
[33:42] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
[33:43] SPEAKER_05: I crack up every time I watch her interview, dude.
[33:46] SPEAKER_05: She she just she just dishes it right back.
[33:48] SPEAKER_05: And just like Jack said, she'll pick up on any little thing.
[33:50] SPEAKER_01: Um, new trython, I reckon.
[33:52] SPEAKER_01: Right now, she's so funny.
[33:54] SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
[33:54] SPEAKER_01: Um, all right.
[33:55] SPEAKER_01: The other big race of the weekend was Cairns.
[33:57] SPEAKER_01: We're gonna start at the women's race.
[33:59] SPEAKER_01: I was trying to think of a headline for this because it wasn't the deepest field, it not a lot happened, but uh I think for me, one of the big talking point points was what was Lottie Wilms doing?
[34:11] SPEAKER_01: And if you didn't watch Cans, I'll kind of paint the picture for you a little bit.
[34:14] SPEAKER_01: So Lottie swam off the front, she was second out of the water behind Beck Clark.
[34:18] SPEAKER_01: Beck Clark's been injured, she hasn't done much running this year compared to what she would other years, so she's been swimming more, so she's swimming really well.
[34:26] SPEAKER_01: Beck probably usually wouldn't drop Lottie.
[34:28] SPEAKER_01: Lottie and Beck would usually come out of the water together, but in this case um they they were isolated, Beck off the front.
[34:34] SPEAKER_01: So Lottie's Lottie's by herself.
[34:36] SPEAKER_01: She then rides off the front of the on off the front of the race, she's riding solo the entire day, and she works really hard to get about a two and a half minute lead.
[34:45] SPEAKER_01: And then into T2.
[34:47] SPEAKER_01: So after riding 180k solo while while a group of three or four behind chase her in Jackie Herring, Hannah Berry, um Regan Holyoke was there for a bit, Bet Clark was there for a bit.
[34:58] SPEAKER_01: Lottie in transition, she loses her watch.
[35:02] SPEAKER_01: She can't find her watch for the run.
[35:04] SPEAKER_01: And so with this, she makes the decision that she can't run without her watch.
[35:10] SPEAKER_01: So she loses every single bit of advantage she worked 180 Ks for and 4K for on the swim to find her watch and put it on for the run.
[35:19] SPEAKER_01: So uh like I think that the question that I have for you guys is if you're in that position and you have between like a three and a four-minute lead like Lottie, do you get your watch or if it's not there, do you just run off?
[35:32] SPEAKER_03: You just run.
[35:33] SPEAKER_05: You just run.
[35:34] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course.
[35:35] SPEAKER_05: You just run.
[35:36] SPEAKER_05: Well, and she got third by a minute and she lost two minutes in T2.
[35:40] SPEAKER_05: I mean, these these athletes are dialed.
[35:42] SPEAKER_05: Like you you can go out and run 26 miles without a watch, right?
[35:46] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I I think it's very much possible.
[35:48] SPEAKER_03: That's exactly what Crowy said on the broadcast.
[35:50] SPEAKER_03: He was like, What are these what is she doing?
[35:52] SPEAKER_03: How did she work so hard?
[35:53] SPEAKER_03: She worked for six hours to get two and a half minutes and then gave it away.
[35:58] SPEAKER_03: And then uh Lieto, I think was the other guy in the broadcast, said, Oh, they didn't have watches back when you were racing.
[36:04] SPEAKER_03: You just strapped a grandfather clock to your back so you don't get it.
[36:09] SPEAKER_04: So you don't get it what you need to wait to sleep.
[36:11] SPEAKER_03: Dude, that was crazy.
[36:12] SPEAKER_03: I was like, no, that's uh so I was watching it and I was like, why is she just standing there?
[36:17] SPEAKER_03: Like, what's she she's obviously looking for something.
[36:19] SPEAKER_03: She was like running back and forth to her bike rack, and like, oh, her special needs bag isn't there, they gotta go get it.
[36:25] SPEAKER_03: She ran out of transition, back into transition.
[36:27] SPEAKER_03: I was like, what is going on?
[36:29] SPEAKER_03: Is it like nutrition?
[36:29] SPEAKER_03: Like it's gotta be something like that.
[36:31] SPEAKER_02: I was thinking nutrition, right?
[36:32] SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, okay, she has 120 gram specific toast.
[36:37] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
[36:38] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, something you can't miss, and then it's like, oh, she's got her watch, folks, goes out on the run course.
[36:43] SPEAKER_03: I was like, the only reason I could like, and it's not legitimate reason, but the only reason I could see an athlete thinking as legitimate is if they have like a power meter, like one of those run power meters, and they follow like a super exact-he runs with power in an Iron Man.
[37:00] SPEAKER_03: Is that your plan for Placidar?
[37:02] SPEAKER_03: You're gonna run with power?
[37:03] SPEAKER_03: Magnus uh Magnus was doing that for a while.
[37:05] SPEAKER_03: I don't know if he still does, but I know he said it at one time, he's like, Oh, I just in St.
[37:09] SPEAKER_03: George, um, the year that Daniel Bacago got disqualified in the the Sam Long Lionel um like last 5k battle.
[37:17] SPEAKER_03: I remember an interview afterwards he said, Oh, I've I just like ran by power.
[37:21] SPEAKER_03: I didn't think about what those guys were doing at all.
[37:23] SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if he's still doing that, but I know at one point he was literally looking at his watch, running, you know, however many watts he he was supposed to run.
[37:31] SPEAKER_03: Distraction.
[37:32] SPEAKER_02: That's not really I'm not one to give anyone any run advice, but I did opt to not wear a watch by choice two races ago, just because I wanted to run by feel and try to be in tune with my body and not set those I don't know, preconceived limits or just like feel like okay, I'm running too hot or too slow.
[37:52] SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
[37:53] SPEAKER_02: How do you guys use the watch besides just timing gaps to competitors in racing?
[37:57] SPEAKER_02: Like when you're feeling good or feeling like shit, you kind of don't look at it anyway, right?
[38:00] SPEAKER_03: I kind of just like, oh, let's just get to 10k.
[38:03] SPEAKER_03: Just like run hard, like run hard to 10k, don't think anything else, and and just get there.
[38:08] SPEAKER_03: And I just use it as like a a way to break the race up into smaller chunks, I guess, and like see how I'm tracking.
[38:14] SPEAKER_03: It doesn't uh I honestly just mostly have it on there so I can put it on Strava.
[38:19] SPEAKER_02: So so here's a question.
[38:20] SPEAKER_02: How many how many seconds would you voluntarily give up, starting with you, Jack, to be able to get your watch versus not have a watch?
[38:28] SPEAKER_01: That's the question I was gonna ask.
[38:30] SPEAKER_01: I had two questions about this, that's one of them.
[38:32] SPEAKER_01: I think no more than 30 seconds.
[38:35] SPEAKER_01: If if you're gonna lose over 30 seconds, I think the benefit of the watch is is now gone.
[38:40] SPEAKER_01: There's there's definitely benefit to being able to pace a marathon, right?
[38:43] SPEAKER_01: And some people are very reliant on technology for that in there because they haven't trained to not be.
[38:48] SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're someone who does pace pace to power or has done heaps of sessions marathon specific to pace, when you're in a race and you've got adrenaline coming out of T2 and you've just done, you know, six hours worth of hard effort before that, your pacing strategy feels very different to in training.
[39:04] SPEAKER_01: So it can be really, really beneficial to have something to hold you back particularly early, or else you could find yourself, you know, running 10-15 seconds per K too fast in the first 5k, and that can be enough to blow you up in a marathon, particularly at the back end of an iron man.
[39:19] SPEAKER_01: But not that not the two minutes that Lottie lost.
[39:22] SPEAKER_01: Like it's clearly lost her the podium.
[39:23] SPEAKER_01: And I don't know the breakdown of the the prize money for cans.
[39:26] SPEAKER_01: It's 125,000 all up.
[39:28] SPEAKER_01: She came third.
[39:29] SPEAKER_01: Do you do you guys know how much money she gave up by that second to third?
[39:33] SPEAKER_03: I mean, what have been close to 10 grand?
[39:35] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably 10 grand.
[39:36] SPEAKER_01: Like it's a lot of money.
[39:37] SPEAKER_01: Um, what do you boys reckon?
[39:39] SPEAKER_01: How would you give up?
[39:40] SPEAKER_03: And not Australian dollars either.
[39:42] SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you think to Justin's question?
[39:45] SPEAKER_01: How much time would you give up for the watch?
[39:46] SPEAKER_01: Like, what is what is reasonable?
[39:49] SPEAKER_02: 12 seconds in an Iron Man and zero and a half.
[39:53] SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, what's the scenario?
[39:55] SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not gonna go look for it.
[39:56] SPEAKER_02: If it's like jumbled in my transition area, I might you drop it, you realize it's you realize it's 20 seconds behind you or it's 30 seconds behind you, and like do your turnaround and go grab it.
[40:06] SPEAKER_03: I would yeah, the most I would run is probably like not not 100.
[40:11] SPEAKER_03: If it's further than 100 meters behind me, if I like realize I dropped it and I'm like out of transition already, and I'm like, yeah.
[40:18] SPEAKER_01: But 20 to 30 seconds.
[40:20] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[40:21] SPEAKER_05: It depends if you're in the money, because if the watch is$200 and you're gonna lose$200 by going back in your audience.
[40:28] SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's true.
[40:31] SPEAKER_05: If I thought I was never gonna see that watch again, I might go to up to 30 seconds.
[40:35] SPEAKER_05: But if it was a matter of not like just not using it, I wouldn't I'd do it at all.
[40:39] SPEAKER_05: But as I say, I like to train by feel.
[40:41] SPEAKER_05: So if you're you know, you got that personality where you live and die by that watch and you think you need it in your mind, then I I'm not there, so I can't I can't really speak to that.
[40:50] SPEAKER_05: But for some athletes, maybe they it's they thought she thought it was worth it.
[40:53] SPEAKER_05: Uh did she get interviewed about at the end?
[40:55] SPEAKER_05: Did anyone ask her about it?
[40:56] SPEAKER_05: The hard-hitting question, was it worth it?
[40:59] SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard it.
[41:00] SPEAKER_01: She she surely did, because she still got in the podium, so surely that Iron Man talked her at some point and and they're gonna put some content out about it.
[41:06] SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I don't I don't know.
[41:08] SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, isn't it, whether it would actually have cost her that podium.
[41:12] SPEAKER_01: Like, what if she does just run out way too fast?
[41:14] SPEAKER_01: Like Lottie is one of those people who is is prone to a blow-up from running a bit too hard too early.
[41:20] SPEAKER_01: Maybe maybe it wasn't that big a deal, and maybe she would have just come third anyway.
[41:24] SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
[41:25] SPEAKER_01: She ran 303 for the marathon.
[41:26] SPEAKER_01: That's the fastest marathon I reckon she's ever ran.
[41:29] SPEAKER_01: So maybe it did help.
[41:30] SPEAKER_03: Oh, including the uh well, that was her T2 went would have been long, not split.
[41:37] SPEAKER_01: Her T2 was four minutes and everyone else's was about two minutes.
[41:40] SPEAKER_05: Okay.
[41:40] SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
[41:41] SPEAKER_05: Well, hey, congrats to Jackie for winning.
[41:43] SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, yeah, let's not uh let's not the well not let the watch talk get away from our great American U.
[41:51] SPEAKER_02: USA, Jackie Herring, Pride and Joy.
[41:55] SPEAKER_02: I love Jackie, and I was stoked to see her get the top step.
[41:59] SPEAKER_02: She brings such good energy to Traffon and is just great for the sport.
[42:05] SPEAKER_02: She always cracks me up.
[42:07] SPEAKER_02: I love her Post race interview.
[42:09] SPEAKER_02: They they chatted with her, and she's just like, I just came here for the money.
[42:13] SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
[42:14] SPEAKER_02: It was hilarious.
[42:15] SPEAKER_02: Have me laughing.
[42:16] SPEAKER_01: Because she wasn't kidding, was she?
[42:18] SPEAKER_02: No, she wasn't.
[42:19] SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
[42:20] SPEAKER_02: I mean, look, she's telling the fierce competitor in the pro series.
[42:24] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she wasn't gonna show up to the race.
[42:26] SPEAKER_01: This is this is clearly what happened, and we all know this.
[42:29] SPEAKER_01: She wasn't gonna show up to the race.
[42:30] SPEAKER_01: She goes, I'm actually in pretty good shape.
[42:32] SPEAKER_01: She looked at the start list, she goes, Oh, I should just go and win this.
[42:36] SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll get the points for the pro series, I'll get the money for winning, I'll get sponsorship bonuses.
[42:41] SPEAKER_01: She clearly looked at it as easy pickings, and it's like it's so crazy to say she cherry-picked a pro series race, particularly an Iron Man, but she did.
[42:50] SPEAKER_01: She just went and cherry-picked an easy Iron Man win.
[42:52] SPEAKER_01: She's the class of that field.
[42:53] SPEAKER_01: I think she wins that 10 out of 10 times this year.
[42:56] SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think there's a scenario where she loses that race in 2025, rid that start start list in cans.
[43:02] SPEAKER_01: Like it's just really smart professional triathlon from Jackie Herring, wasn't it?
[43:06] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, 100%.
[43:07] SPEAKER_05: And like I can I we'll go on to the men's.
[43:10] SPEAKER_05: My headline is Iron Meh Cans.
[43:15] SPEAKER_05: I mean, let's be real.
[43:17] SPEAKER_05: It was it's it's the that didn't hit.
[43:22] SPEAKER_05: Um look in Jack speaking to it, it this was the weakest pro field in a in a pro series race we've ever seen.
[43:32] SPEAKER_05: I mean, honestly, besides the two winners and a couple random others, it was just like a stateside Australian race.
[43:38] SPEAKER_05: You know, when when you put a when you put in the middle of a season race in Australia for the pros like if this is March, or maybe they go New Zealand or something to start the year.
[43:48] SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
[43:48] SPEAKER_05: I feel like people might be more they someone else might go, but it's such a massive travel.
[43:53] SPEAKER_05: People are doing T 100, they're doing multiple ironments, they're trying to balance it.
[43:57] SPEAKER_05: Like you're just never gonna get a strong feel and 5,000 points at this race versus 5,000 some of the other ones, it's worth the same in the Pro Series, even though the strength of field is is nowhere near as high as some of the other races.
[44:10] SPEAKER_01: I always look at races and I go, well, at the world championships this year, who in this race will come top three or five or ten or twenty?
[44:18] SPEAKER_01: And so with this with this women's and men's cans field, how many do you think will finish in the top ten at Kona for the women and Nice for the men, respectively?
[44:28] SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna say like one woman and is that Jackie?
[44:34] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Jackie.
[44:35] SPEAKER_05: I think I think there's a couple men that are gonna be fringe, but like I if I had to be a betting man, I'm not sure I would bet on any one of them to be in the top ten, honestly.
[44:44] SPEAKER_05: I mean, obviously Mark Quad and Nunick Thompson and Riddle and Matt Hansen, and I think those guys are in the mix.
[44:50] SPEAKER_05: I mean, I don't I don't really know the third place guy, to be honest, very well, but I I wouldn't bet on it.
[44:56] SPEAKER_01: For the Nice World Championships for the women last year, three of the women in this race who all finished top five at Cairns finished in the top ten of the world championships last year.
[45:05] SPEAKER_01: Penny Slater, who finished fifth, she came seventh.
[45:08] SPEAKER_01: Lottie Wilms came eighth, and Jackie Herring came ninth last year.
[45:12] SPEAKER_01: Of the men, none, none of the top, no one in this race came top ten.
[45:16] SPEAKER_01: So it kind of says that the women's field is maybe a little bit stronger than the men's field at Cairns, but the men's field, yeah.
[45:23] SPEAKER_01: Like so you're saying are we are we saying Mark Watts?
[45:27] SPEAKER_02: Is he going to fix the cramp?
[45:29] SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about this.
[45:30] SPEAKER_02: I mean, this was the headline of the day.
[45:31] SPEAKER_02: Like, sure, Iron Man, but like talk about some drama.
[45:34] SPEAKER_02: The guy, I thought he was gonna DNF.
[45:37] SPEAKER_02: I don't know about you guys, and I know him well, I've raced him many times.
[45:40] SPEAKER_02: Like, he looked like he was in so much pain walking in T1, and he lost 10 minutes and went out and got on the bike and lost another you know a couple minutes, and at one point he was basically 10 minutes down, and the guy wins the race, runs a PR under 240.
[45:57] SPEAKER_02: If he fixes the cramp, he dominates this race, and he would be in contention easily, I think, for a top 10 at Nice with this kind of performance without the cramping issue, without losing that much time.
[46:10] SPEAKER_02: What are your guess's thoughts on that?
[46:12] SPEAKER_02: I mean, he did get like what 11th or 12th in Nice before.
[46:15] SPEAKER_05: I will say it it is it is Europe race too.
[46:19] SPEAKER_05: So it's it's hard for me to put an Aussie on the in the top 10 at Ironman World Champs when it's in Europe.
[46:24] SPEAKER_05: I mean, even Americans too.
[46:25] SPEAKER_05: Like Marquat going over there his first time and getting 11th in Nice, that was actually freaking impressive.
[46:30] SPEAKER_05: Like I didn't see that coming.
[46:32] SPEAKER_05: So we always talk about the location and the fact that it's in Europe makes it but I mean I guess that doesn't affect the strength of field.
[46:39] SPEAKER_05: But yeah, I mean, what you said about Marquette having the race, Justin, I think is it is cool.
[46:44] SPEAKER_05: But maybe he had more fire in his belly after he fixed the cramps, and maybe uh he ran.
[46:49] SPEAKER_05: I mean, that was his best run by like maybe five minutes or so.
[46:51] SPEAKER_05: So, you know, maybe he wouldn't have run as fast.
[46:54] SPEAKER_05: Who knows?
[46:54] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's impressive.
[46:56] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, the knees course is gonna favor the strong cyclists, which were clearly Marquat and Nick Thompson on the day.
[47:02] SPEAKER_02: I mean, Nick Thompson's bike ride was super impressive.
[47:04] SPEAKER_02: I guess I'd love to ride with that guy.
[47:06] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's underrated.
[47:08] SPEAKER_01: He's just he's just so aggressive on the bike, too.
[47:10] SPEAKER_01: He just he just uh he always does this.
[47:12] SPEAKER_01: At some point in the bike, he just goes, Okay, I'm going now.
[47:15] SPEAKER_01: Who can keep up with me?
[47:16] SPEAKER_01: He does it every Iron Man he does.
[47:17] SPEAKER_01: He's super underrated on the bike.
[47:19] SPEAKER_05: He's kind of a little a little guy, right?
[47:21] SPEAKER_05: Too.
[47:22] SPEAKER_05: So I mean actually, Nice could suit him pretty well.
[47:24] SPEAKER_05: Nick Thompson on on the kinds.
[47:26] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's I feel like he's built.
[47:28] SPEAKER_03: Like he's built, he's like built like a construction worker.
[47:30] SPEAKER_01: Nah, no, he's little, but like he's little, he's for sure little.
[47:34] SPEAKER_01: He's a small man.
[47:34] SPEAKER_01: He's kind of construction worker.
[47:36] SPEAKER_04: He's got he's like he looks strong and he's got the like strong caterpillar mustache.
[47:42] SPEAKER_04: Like, you know what I'm saying?
[47:42] SPEAKER_02: If Nick's a construction worker, what is Ari?
[47:45] SPEAKER_02: A barista?
[47:46] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
[47:47] SPEAKER_01: A San Francisco barista.
[47:50] SPEAKER_01: Nah, Nick's a little guy, and the Nice course should suit him.
[47:53] SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, where he is, there isn't the mountains like that where he lives and trains.
[47:56] SPEAKER_01: There isn't the mountains like there is in Nice, so who knows how he'll go.
[47:59] SPEAKER_01: But I mean, you look at the way he's riding this year, there's no reason why he shouldn't come off the bike in like the top five or six at Nice.
[48:07] SPEAKER_01: Like he is that he's that level, he swims really strong.
[48:10] SPEAKER_01: He runs the thing that he just you know is kind of letting him down at this point over the full distance, but he's still he's still like relatively young in his in his professional triathlon life.
[48:20] SPEAKER_01: So I see that coming.
[48:21] SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, apart from that, I don't think there's much more to talk about at Cairns.
[48:25] SPEAKER_01: Like, I I I I don't know, I don't know, Greg.
[48:27] SPEAKER_01: It's kind of tricky because I definitely agree that it's the weakest pro series race we're gonna see this year, and the the performances, you know, they're probably not gonna win you other pro series races, but I still found it like a really fun race to watch.
[48:40] SPEAKER_01: I watched the whole thing.
[48:40] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's just because I'm Australian bias, but I thought it was like a really, a really entertaining race.
[48:45] SPEAKER_01: Like the battle between Nick and and Matt was really fun to watch, and the women's race was close all day, so I still enjoyed it.
[48:51] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it looked like a beautiful course.
[48:53] SPEAKER_02: I thought the coverage was really pretty solid for an Iron Man uh broadcast, you know, low expectations, and they beat them.
[48:59] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I enjoyed watching it as well, Jack.
[49:02] SPEAKER_01: All right.
[49:03] SPEAKER_01: We thought because it's the middle of the year, we were gonna we we're gonna just list our mid-year triathlete of the year and performance of the year.
[49:10] SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a a bookmark halfway through the year that we can come back and and revisit at the end of the year.
[49:16] SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna talk about this much, we're not gonna go into to much detail or debate it.
[49:20] SPEAKER_01: It's just like I said, it's just a little place marker to watch this space.
[49:24] SPEAKER_01: So I'll start us off.
[49:26] SPEAKER_01: I think the male triathlete of the year so far is Yalla Geans.
[49:30] SPEAKER_01: I think the female triathlete of the year so far is Laura Phillip, and I think the best performance of the year so far is Laura Phillip at Ironman Hamburg.
[49:39] SPEAKER_02: All right.
[49:40] SPEAKER_02: I I think those are good takes, Jack.
[49:42] SPEAKER_02: I think uh I'm gonna go with my favorite, Lionel Sanders, mid-year triathlete of the year.
[49:48] SPEAKER_02: He's 2-0, dominated Oceanside in St.
[49:51] SPEAKER_02: George.
[49:51] SPEAKER_02: Can't count him out.
[49:52] SPEAKER_02: Hopefully he comes back from whatever's uh sidelining him right now.
[49:57] SPEAKER_02: And then female triathlete of the year, Kat Matthews.
[50:00] SPEAKER_02: I don't think she can be stopped, and she's my pick for the Iron Man World Championship.
[50:04] SPEAKER_02: However, my performance of the year, I'm going with Christian Blumenfeld in Texas.
[50:08] SPEAKER_02: Just dominated the race, made it uh not that fun to watch.
[50:13] SPEAKER_03: That is interesting because I have Christian as my mid-year triathlete of the year.
[50:19] SPEAKER_03: I think people forget uh what he's done so far this year, and then Julie Duran for the women, a T100 win and a second place.
[50:26] SPEAKER_03: And my performance of the year is Rico Bogan destroying everybody on the bike and hanging on for the run in San Francisco.
[50:34] SPEAKER_03: I like that performance of the year.
[50:36] SPEAKER_03: That was pretty impressive.
[50:37] SPEAKER_03: It was impressive.
[50:38] SPEAKER_05: Definitely.
[50:39] SPEAKER_05: So I'm going away from my Australian hate because I don't hate Australia at all, and I'm going Maddie Hauser, Athlete of the Year.
[50:46] SPEAKER_05: People forget that's the top level.
[50:48] SPEAKER_02: It's the hardest races to make that show.
[50:51] SPEAKER_05: WCTS is the hardest races to win, in my opinion.
[50:55] SPEAKER_05: And he's won one, and he's got second in the other.
[50:57] SPEAKER_05: So I'm where did he win?
[50:59] SPEAKER_05: Uh Yokohama.
[51:01] SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I looked that up.
[51:03] SPEAKER_05: Don't just get off me.
[51:05] SPEAKER_05: Whatever.
[51:06] SPEAKER_05: That's fun.
[51:06] SPEAKER_01: The reason that's funny for those playing at home is his pre-show.
[51:09] SPEAKER_01: We asked Greg where did Matt Houser win?
[51:12] SPEAKER_01: What where what city was his winning?
[51:14] SPEAKER_01: And Greg had no idea.
[51:18] SPEAKER_05: Was it a sprint or an Olympic?
[51:20] SPEAKER_05: Olympic.
[51:21] SPEAKER_05: It was his first Olympic win.
[51:22] SPEAKER_05: Okay, get it.
[51:23] SPEAKER_05: All right, all right, all right.
[51:24] SPEAKER_05: And Taylor Nib, I'm going athlete of the year, mid.
[51:27] SPEAKER_05: Uh her Vancouver race, I thought was the yeah, performance of the year.
[51:31] SPEAKER_05: To lose and then come back like that, big performance in my eyes.
[51:34] SPEAKER_05: I think that's the best female T100 performance of the year.
[51:40] SPEAKER_01: I only really have two questions to ask.
[51:42] SPEAKER_01: My first one's to Ari.
[51:43] SPEAKER_01: You've got Rico Bogan's win at San Francisco being the performance of the year.
[51:48] SPEAKER_01: How much better do you think it is than Hayden Wilde's win at Singapore?
[51:52] SPEAKER_03: Uh not a ton, but just a little bit.
[51:57] SPEAKER_03: I think the course in Singapore for me makes it so hard to judge performances because some athletes do like so badly that it's and some athletes just handle the heat really well and like ride the course really well.
[52:10] SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I mean the margin that he won by was kind of insane, but that almost mm makes me want to look at it as an outlier.
[52:19] SPEAKER_03: Like everyone else just he just handled the conditions the best, not that which of course is part of the race.
[52:24] SPEAKER_03: But so I think and I I didn't find it as entertaining.
[52:29] SPEAKER_03: I found Rico's I found the whole San Francisco race in the way that Rico uh went off the front, and you're kind of like wondering if he's gonna hang on, because you you think he probably wouldn't be able to.
[52:38] SPEAKER_03: Versus Hayden, you kind of you knew he had it locked up.
[52:40] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's like too good for his own good to keep it interesting.
[52:44] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
[52:45] SPEAKER_03: I mean, maybe that's a bad answer for performance of the year, like Hayden was too dominant.
[52:52] SPEAKER_03: It's like uh hidden wild winds, okay.
[52:54] SPEAKER_03: But it's a performance.
[52:55] SPEAKER_03: It's we're talking about, you know, we weren't talking about highest uh highest uh VO2 max ever recorded.
[53:01] SPEAKER_03: We're talking about performance, we're talking about art.
[53:04] SPEAKER_03: We're talking about giving the people a show.
[53:05] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[53:06] SPEAKER_03: And that that was Rico T1, she could be nominated there.
[53:09] SPEAKER_03: That was a show.
[53:10] SPEAKER_03: That was that was definitely performance art.
[53:13] SPEAKER_01: My second question is to you, Justin.
[53:15] SPEAKER_01: You said that Kat Matthews can't be stopped this year, but she literally got beaten by Laura Phillip at Hamburg in what I think is the performance of the year.
[53:24] SPEAKER_01: Can you just explain that for me?
[53:27] SPEAKER_02: I don't I I agree with the take, Jack.
[53:29] SPEAKER_02: I don't have too much other commentary.
[53:33] SPEAKER_05: All right, I got a question for Ari, and it's you know, you're picking Julie Duran, but you know, she what did she get in Singapore?
[53:40] SPEAKER_05: She was down the field?
[53:42] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, six.
[53:44] SPEAKER_03: Twelve.
[53:45] SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
[53:46] SPEAKER_05: Alright.
[53:46] SPEAKER_05: So uh you just you don't think that Taylor is the better athlete on the year, or Kate Waugh over her?
[53:52] SPEAKER_05: Uh why would you pick Julie over Kate?
[53:56] SPEAKER_03: That's my question.
[53:57] SPEAKER_03: Uh because Julie beat Kate at San Francisco, which I see again, Singapore I feel like is you have to treat it a little bit as an outlier because it's the it is the toughest conditions and it's an extremely hard bike course.
[54:10] SPEAKER_03: Uh I feel like you can't look at who wins that race and give it too too much credit.
[54:16] SPEAKER_03: You give it some credit, but I'm looking at the two sort of more normal races, although the bike course at San Francisco I think is you know particularly hard.
[54:25] SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I I think just in the sort of fair conditions, fair more normal course for triathlon, Julie has been exceptional this year.
[54:35] SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I would say at least on par with Taylor in T100, you know, with both of them sharing a first and a second.
[54:42] SPEAKER_05: I I think that's actually not a bad take.
[54:45] SPEAKER_05: And it makes me think of Yuri, because he won Singapore, right, last year.
[54:48] SPEAKER_05: Right.
[54:51] SPEAKER_03: Like every time.
[54:52] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and those guys are not I mean, they haven't featured in any other races.
[54:56] SPEAKER_05: I mean, Yuri in Miami before that, but yeah, I mean it's it is a one-off.
[54:59] SPEAKER_05: I honestly I feel like the ITU I mean, you saw Hayden, you saw Kate Wild.
[55:04] SPEAKER_05: They race all over the world in different conditions, and they go to really hot races a lot too.
[55:08] SPEAKER_05: So I feel like they're just better suited for those conditions.
[55:11] SPEAKER_05: They're probably better at traveling too.
[55:14] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, 100%.
[55:15] SPEAKER_01: I reckon it's a great take, Ari.
[55:16] SPEAKER_01: I still think Hayden Wilde, if he doesn't get injured, wins every T100 race this year that he does.
[55:21] SPEAKER_01: Okay, moving on.
[55:22] SPEAKER_01: That was good to pencil, pencil them in.
[55:24] SPEAKER_01: And uh it'll be quite interesting to see at the end of the year whether like we e any of us have the same answer for that.
[55:30] SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, it's time for another news segment.
[55:42] SPEAKER_01: For those of you who don't recognize that, that is the Mythbusters theme song, and this is Triathlon Mythbusters.
[55:48] SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna run the show today.
[55:49] SPEAKER_01: This is common running shoe myths.
[55:52] SPEAKER_01: Running shoe myth number one insert brand name of shoe company here just works for me.
[56:00] SPEAKER_01: I don't really know where to start with this one.
[56:03] SPEAKER_01: Human nature resists change.
[56:05] SPEAKER_01: In researching this, I read a stat that said only 20% of the world's population are change friendly, aka welcome to change.
[56:13] SPEAKER_01: So that means that 80% of us don't love it.
[56:15] SPEAKER_01: This is just a classic example of that.
[56:18] SPEAKER_01: Maybe you wore a shoe you loved and it was a Brooks or an ASICs or Nike, or maybe one of your favorite athletes wore Socony or Hoker or Adidas, and now you wear that brand exclusively when you run.
[56:29] SPEAKER_01: But one brand doesn't have a whole range of shoes that are exactly the same.
[56:33] SPEAKER_01: And in fact, most shoes from that brand vary greatly in feel, fit, and function.
[56:38] SPEAKER_01: Take the Asics Nimbus, for example.
[56:40] SPEAKER_01: It's currently much closer to the Brooks Glycerin than it is to the ASIC Superblast.
[56:46] SPEAKER_01: So if you've worn a Nimbus for the past three years, loved it, had no issues, no injuries, etc.
[56:51] SPEAKER_01: etc., and someone recommends the glycerin from Brooks, but you say no to it because you only wear ASICs, and then ASICs have a sale, so you go and buy yourself an ASIC Superblast, just know that that makes absolutely no sense.
[57:05] SPEAKER_01: Yes, you'll probably love the super blast because everyone loves the super blast.
[57:08] SPEAKER_01: It's an absolutely fire shoe, and you got it on sale, so that's a bonus, which is unlikely to ever happen, by the way, because it always sells out as soon as it comes out.
[57:15] SPEAKER_01: But trust me, it's not because it's an ASIC shoe that you love the super blast, and it's not that only ASIC shoes work for you.
[57:22] SPEAKER_01: So if you're one of these people, I want you to realize that brand loyalty in the running shoe world is just a little bit silly.
[57:28] SPEAKER_01: All brands are constantly innovating, using new foams, new uppers, new plates, etc.
[57:33] SPEAKER_01: etc.
[57:34] SPEAKER_01: And some brands can quickly go from having the best shoes in the world and your favorite shoes to the worst shoes in the world and shoes that don't work for you.
[57:42] SPEAKER_03: Jack, do you think that a pro athlete who is sponsored by a brand is missing out on something by big time, I think are sticking themselves to that one brand.
[57:55] SPEAKER_03: Like I get a huge Brooks discount.
[57:57] SPEAKER_03: I'm a Brooks guy through and through, but Big Brooks guy.
[58:00] SPEAKER_03: Big pro athlete.
[58:01] SPEAKER_03: Huge Brooks guy.
[58:02] SPEAKER_03: 10% off.
[58:03] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[58:04] SPEAKER_03: And they just they just work for me, man.
[58:07] SPEAKER_01: No, I think for sure.
[58:08] SPEAKER_01: I think that I think that uh that's probably one of the sponsorships I'd be most careful with as an athlete, particularly signing a long-term deal.
[58:16] SPEAKER_01: Now, if it's a big reputable brand that you know works and you know are going to constantly innovate, like Nike or Adidas or probably ASICs, then that makes sense.
[58:26] SPEAKER_01: But if it's a brand that you know, I don't I don't really want to name brands here, but are a little hit and miss with their shoes.
[58:32] SPEAKER_01: If I'm advising that athlete, I'm gonna be really careful about it.
[58:36] SPEAKER_01: And the money would have to be right for it to work.
[58:38] SPEAKER_01: I I do think that particularly with race day shoes, that can be a disaster if there's a shoe that just doesn't work for your foot but you're forced to wear it.
[58:46] SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I'd be very I'd be very careful for it.
[58:49] SPEAKER_01: But it's your job at the end of the day as well.
[58:50] SPEAKER_01: So you've got to make money.
[58:51] SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a tricky one, but the the risk to reward is weighing up.
[58:55] SPEAKER_01: If I wear a shoe that's gonna wreck my marathon or make my marathon harder, will I get more money as a result of the contract?
[59:02] SPEAKER_01: Or by wearing a shoe from another brand that I've paid for that makes me finish higher up in the prize money in that race.
[59:07] SPEAKER_01: It's it's a it's a tricky balance though.
[59:09] SPEAKER_03: Your camera's off, but I would name brands and ask you to blink twice and just name name brands which one you were talking about.
[59:15] SPEAKER_03: Because I think it's on, but I'm not sure.
[59:18] SPEAKER_01: Uh no comment.
[59:19] SPEAKER_01: Uh running shoe myth number two.
[59:22] SPEAKER_01: I need to wear my shoes snug or tight.
[59:25] SPEAKER_01: This is not true for anyone.
[59:29] SPEAKER_01: Shoes that are too small impact the natural function of your foot.
[59:33] SPEAKER_01: This leads to issues, I'd say, in the majority of people, even if they don't realize it's the reason why they're having that issue.
[59:39] SPEAKER_01: Uh when you work in specialty running retail, which I did back in the day, the main problem you see day in, day out is people wearing too small shoes.
[59:48] SPEAKER_01: Once you get them in to run in a shoe that gives their foot enough space, initially they really hate it and it feels so weird.
[59:53] SPEAKER_01: But once they've run in that new shoe for like a week or two, it's literally almost impossible to get them to go back into wearing shoes that were as snug or tight as what they were previously wearing.
[1:00:03] SPEAKER_01: Just because you're used to shoes that are too small and have probably worn them forever, does not mean that's what works best for you.
[1:00:11] SPEAKER_01: This is, in my opinion, the single best change you can make to increase your enjoyment and comfort in running shoes.
[1:00:18] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with that, Jack.
[1:00:20] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I used to just be nine and a half, and now I'm 10 basically in every shoe.
[1:00:22] SPEAKER_02: And plus your feet swell up halfway through a real race, or if you're in the heat, it's not like what you might experience inside of a running shoe store.
[1:00:30] SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a great take.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_02: Not that controversial.
[1:00:33] SPEAKER_02: If your toes are hitting the edge of the shoe or your feet feel tight in the shoe, size up, baby.
[1:00:38] SPEAKER_05: Do running shoe like comp or like a company or a store, do they give runners like bad advice?
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_05: And like I just sometimes, it's hard to navigate sometimes, too.
[1:00:48] SPEAKER_05: It's like, how do you find the shoes?
[1:00:49] SPEAKER_05: You're comparing shoes brand to brand, and like it's just a random Joe Joe Schmo in the running store.
[1:00:55] SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't even know who this guy is.
[1:00:57] SPEAKER_05: It's like it's it can it seems like it's hard to navigate, honestly.
[1:01:00] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the running shoe industry, Greg, is very hard like this because you get some running shoe stores that have absolute experts where the people are runners themselves, they live and breathe it.
[1:01:10] SPEAKER_01: And if you go there, it's gonna be the best decision you ever made to get your shoe.
[1:01:14] SPEAKER_01: And then you have other places where it's a 19-year-old kid at who is at uni and he plays basketball or you know, football, but he doesn't run and he has a very limited knowledge on it, he or she.
[1:01:26] SPEAKER_01: This is this is the running shoe industry, and then they don't make it easier on themselves because they're such a jargon-based industry.
[1:01:32] SPEAKER_01: So that everything has names that is confusing and constantly changing and too long, and words that we've never heard of before.
[1:01:38] SPEAKER_01: It's a very confusing space.
[1:01:40] SPEAKER_01: And uh it is really beneficial if you can have someone that you trust, that you know knows their shit, and you go and see them and they just help you.
[1:01:48] SPEAKER_01: So I'd say my big biggest piece of advice with this this running shoe myth that your shoes should never be too tight or snug.
[1:01:56] SPEAKER_01: The myth being that you only wear shoes that are too snug or tight and that works for you is go and find the closest running specialty store to you and ask them, are you a runner?
[1:02:08] SPEAKER_01: Is everyone who works here runners?
[1:02:10] SPEAKER_01: Because that's the sign of a really good run specialty store.
[1:02:13] SPEAKER_01: People who work there are runners themselves, so they have experience, and the person who owns the store is a runner.
[1:02:18] SPEAKER_01: I'd say that's like the biggest factor, or trifle it, you know, someone who runs, who runs often because you know they'll be passionate, you know that they'll be up to date with the industry, and you know they'll want to help a runner because they are one themselves.
[1:02:30] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Greg, make sure you just watch in, walk in, tell them your 10k time, ask them if they could beat you, and if they're qualified to give you running shoe advice.
[1:02:38] SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, leave, just buy them online, test them yourself.
[1:02:41] SPEAKER_02: That's what I heard.
[1:02:42] SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go to Jack's old store.
[1:02:44] SPEAKER_05: I wish that was in my neighborhood.
[1:02:46] SPEAKER_01: Obviously, they don't have to be great runners, they just have to be runners themselves and passionate runners.
[1:02:50] SPEAKER_01: Like I just I think that's like runners understand runners.
[1:02:53] SPEAKER_01: We all know that as runners.
[1:02:54] SPEAKER_01: All right, running shoe myth number three.
[1:02:57] SPEAKER_01: If I wear more minimal shoes, I will get stronger and have less injuries.
[1:03:03] SPEAKER_01: And on the counter to this, if I wear more maximal shoes, it will change the way I run for the negative.
[1:03:11] SPEAKER_01: Remember, sudden changes in load are the very leading cause of running related injuries.
[1:03:18] SPEAKER_01: So let's say you're someone who has plant issues or Achilles issues or calf issues.
[1:03:24] SPEAKER_01: If you suddenly start wearing less shoes, even you know, minimal shoes, and you're not used to it, you're not getting stronger.
[1:03:32] SPEAKER_01: Your load is shifting to the areas that are already injured.
[1:03:36] SPEAKER_01: And like I said, sudden changes or increases in load is the number one way running-related injuries occur.
[1:03:42] SPEAKER_01: So this is just a great way to make your running-related injury worse, not better.
[1:03:46] SPEAKER_01: It's a really nice idea that if you just wear less shoe, that those areas will get stronger.
[1:03:51] SPEAKER_01: And it is kind of true, but it has to be a very slow process where you like introduce the shoe in very small amounts, you know, like you could do some barefoot running, but maybe it's like two or three minutes once or twice a week, that very gradually progresses over time.
[1:04:05] SPEAKER_01: But just going into minimal shoes is not going to suddenly fix your fix your like chronic injuries because you're you're gonna get stronger.
[1:04:12] SPEAKER_01: That's such a slow process.
[1:04:14] SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it's just a huge, sudden increase in load that's probably gonna make it worse in the short time.
[1:04:19] SPEAKER_01: And then people pitch a big, bulky, chunky maximal shoes like the Hoker Bondi, for example, and they go, Yeah, but if I wear that, my cadence will be slower, I'll uh it'll change the way I run negatively.
[1:04:31] SPEAKER_01: But studies have proven this to be completely wrong.
[1:04:33] SPEAKER_01: Wearing maximal shoes does not change running mechanics at all.
[1:04:37] SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to be scared of that.
[1:04:39] SPEAKER_01: Um and I think a a big point on this is that the way you become more resistant to injury is just by running more often, more consistently over time without being injured.
[1:04:51] SPEAKER_01: So if you are going through constant injury battles with running, everything you do should be trying to get you to run as frequently as possible for as long a period of time as possible.
[1:05:02] SPEAKER_01: And sometimes getting into more shoe, a more stable shoe, um, a shoe that takes load off the area where you're injured is the best way to do that, not trying to do crazy stuff like strengthening the area through running barefoot or running in minimal shoes.
[1:05:16] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, amen, Jack.
[1:05:18] SPEAKER_03: Is it not the case that if I were running because I I basically uh I felt like this was targeted at me.
[1:05:23] SPEAKER_03: I used to be like this.
[1:05:25] SPEAKER_03: Is it not the case that if I run in minimal shoes consistently and I'm building up and I'm I'm basically fully adapted, that if I then switch into maximal shoes, I am shifting load and I'm kind of maybe likely to get injured?
[1:05:39] SPEAKER_01: Potentially for sure.
[1:05:42] SPEAKER_01: If you are someone who says you run barefoot, um, let's say you run 100k a week and you do it all barefoot or in a pair of Nike frees like you used to are.
[1:05:50] SPEAKER_01: If you then go into a Hoker Bondi, remember load shifts.
[1:05:54] SPEAKER_01: You don't remove load.
[1:05:55] SPEAKER_01: So that load, rather than being taken up by your calf and Achilles and Planter, like it is when you run.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_01: And your Nike freeze might just shift further up the track chain.
[1:06:03] SPEAKER_01: So maybe some of that load is now being placed into your glutes or hamstrings or quads or knee or, you know.
[1:06:09] SPEAKER_01: And so definitely, if it's a big change in load from what you're used to, then that's not good.
[1:06:14] SPEAKER_01: And I think that is part of this point.
[1:06:16] SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily anti-minimal shoes and pro-maximal shoes.
[1:06:20] SPEAKER_01: It's just that there's this idea that going minimal will fix issues when it's not the case.
[1:06:25] SPEAKER_01: The big changes in load are what you have to be worried about, and you should do everything you can to be running as consistently as possible.
[1:06:32] SPEAKER_01: So if you are running in minimal shoes and you have gone through the process over time of being able to do that without getting injured, yeah, just don't make a big crazy change.
[1:06:42] SPEAKER_01: It's just the inverse of this rule, which is also true.
[1:06:44] SPEAKER_01: It's the but there is this myth in the running world that if you, you know, let's say you're just an average Joe who hasn't been running in minimal shoes, that going into that might fix problems.
[1:06:55] SPEAKER_01: It's it's not a magic wand.
[1:06:56] SPEAKER_01: Neither like there is, I guess that's the thing.
[1:06:59] SPEAKER_01: There is no big magic wand in in running shoes.
[1:07:02] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[1:07:03] SPEAKER_01: Running shoe myth number four.
[1:07:05] SPEAKER_01: You have to wear in race day running shoes.
[1:07:08] SPEAKER_01: Newer racing shoes are always better.
[1:07:12] SPEAKER_01: But this has never been more true than the previous five years.
[1:07:16] SPEAKER_01: Now, let me say it is absolutely best for you to know the shoes that work for you.
[1:07:21] SPEAKER_01: So when trialing race day shoes, you definitely should be trying them in your training block leading into your race.
[1:07:28] SPEAKER_01: However, if you can and you can afford it, it's absolutely best to have a new set of the pair you decide is best for you throughout that training block set away for race day.
[1:07:38] SPEAKER_01: I think the most I'd want to put into a shoe that I plan to wear for my biggest race of the year would be between zero and five kilometers before I start that race.
[1:07:46] SPEAKER_01: I I myself personally would go with zero kilometers.
[1:07:49] SPEAKER_01: I'd go a brand new out of the box for race day.
[1:07:51] SPEAKER_01: The reason why is because the foam now in race shoes, this has always been the case, but it's just particularly true now.
[1:07:57] SPEAKER_01: The foam is at its peak with energy return when you take your very first step in that shoe.
[1:08:02] SPEAKER_01: And it's the modern-day PIBA foams that have really changed it because the more shoes you take in any PIB bar-based foam, just take like they just make the shoe worse and worse very quickly over time.
[1:08:12] SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, the key is just to find a shoe that you love that you can beat to death in training, but have a fresh pair stockpiled for when it counts, rather than using the pair you have for like 200, 300, 400, 500 Ks, and then thinking that it's going to be as fast come race day as it was when it was brand new.
[1:08:28] SPEAKER_01: It's going to be far from it.
[1:08:29] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:08:29] SPEAKER_02: So here's one of the challenges with this Jack is that a new pair of carbon shoes costs$300.
[1:08:36] SPEAKER_02: And so I just got the Pumas, for example, the Puma threes.
[1:08:39] SPEAKER_02: You know, you see somebody run a 226 marathon off the bike, you just go buy their shoes.
[1:08:42] SPEAKER_02: That's what I did.
[1:08:43] SPEAKER_02: I haven't even run in them yet because I'm like, oh, I need to save them.
[1:08:46] SPEAKER_02: They're$330 after tax and shipping.
[1:08:48] SPEAKER_02: But like, I'm not going to go switch from Nike Alpha Fly to a different brand without having a few key sessions under my belt.
[1:08:56] SPEAKER_02: So let's say I go run 30 to 50 miles in those shoes.
[1:08:59] SPEAKER_02: Now I need to go buy a second pair for race day.
[1:09:02] SPEAKER_02: You know, so it's I hear you and I agree.
[1:09:05] SPEAKER_02: And I've been running in a new pair of Alpha Fly Threes almost every race, but I'm trying to use at least I'm trying to get through like three races per shoe and then rotate them out.
[1:09:13] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you're looking at like thousands of dollars in carbon.
[1:09:16] SPEAKER_02: And then if you want to go test a new brand, you're basically buying two.
[1:09:19] SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there's a few points here.
[1:09:21] SPEAKER_01: Number one, Justin, the first point to address is yes, the inflation in running shoe prices in the running industry is ridiculous and not and running shoe companies are making a killing with markup on these shoes.
[1:09:33] SPEAKER_01: They're too expensive.
[1:09:34] SPEAKER_01: The foams and the plates and the innovation and technology, it has cost money, but the the the price of these shoes, it's just outrageous.
[1:09:42] SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's still just rubber, right?
[1:09:43] SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's freaking rubber.
[1:09:45] SPEAKER_01: Well, it's the foam.
[1:09:45] SPEAKER_01: It's the foam.
[1:09:46] SPEAKER_01: It's the foam that's the expensive part.
[1:09:48] SPEAKER_01: It's what's driven the price of these shoes.
[1:09:50] SPEAKER_01: But also, demand is what's driven the price of these shoes.
[1:09:53] SPEAKER_01: So it started with Nike.
[1:09:54] SPEAKER_01: They would release the very first version of the vape vapor fly or the 4%, and they would release it in very small amounts.
[1:10:01] SPEAKER_01: And they did the same with the Alpha Fly, and they created this market where there was always more demand for these super shoes and more height for these super shoes than pairs available.
[1:10:11] SPEAKER_01: And so they just slowly, slowly increased the price.
[1:10:14] SPEAKER_01: And now they're, you know, you're getting$450 pairs of racing shoes, which is insane.
[1:10:18] SPEAKER_01: Adidas brought out a shoe that was just an insane amount of of money.
[1:10:22] SPEAKER_01: Um, and it definitely doesn't cost them that much to produce it, as far as I'm aware.
[1:10:26] SPEAKER_01: So, yes, that's that's point number one, and it's an issue.
[1:10:29] SPEAKER_01: And I did make the point, if you can afford it, then this is what's optimal.
[1:10:32] SPEAKER_01: There's another point.
[1:10:33] SPEAKER_01: So, point number two is I think I'm mainly meaning this for your for the race you care about in the year.
[1:10:39] SPEAKER_01: I think that was the wording I used in it.
[1:10:41] SPEAKER_01: For the race you care about most, let's say, let's say you have one half marathon, one marathon, one 70.3, one Iron Man that you care about more than anything, that's where this is really important.
[1:10:51] SPEAKER_01: But let's say if you're racing five to ten times a year, it's just for the majority of people unfeasible to wear a new shoe for all of them.
[1:10:58] SPEAKER_01: So I think for races you don't care about as much, it's still best to like wear a shoe that has as few miles on it as possible for all of your races if you want to do well.
[1:11:07] SPEAKER_01: But I wouldn't be stressing about it because of the cost of the shoes for every race.
[1:11:11] SPEAKER_01: I think I think I mainly mean this, like let's say you're doing Kona.
[1:11:14] SPEAKER_01: Have a have a new set of shoes put aside for Kona.
[1:11:16] SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna, if you're gonna do everything to get there and pay all the cost to get there and spend all those hours away from your family, I I think that's the one where a new$300 pair of shoes is probably a pretty reasonable thing.
[1:11:27] SPEAKER_01: But obviously, if you've got 10 years, you can't spend$3,000 on new pairs of race shoes.
[1:11:31] SPEAKER_01: So there, you know, there's just some nuance there, but this is just purely for the for the A race.
[1:11:36] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[1:11:37] SPEAKER_01: Speaking of race shoes, this is this is my last point, and I'm really passionate about this myth.
[1:11:44] SPEAKER_01: Racing in super shoes will always make me faster.
[1:11:49] SPEAKER_01: Everyone sees people who are the best runners in the world, or the best runners in your local group, or one of your friends who is the best runner, and you know, you see them wearing Nike Alpha Flies or Socony Endorphin Elites or Adidas Pros or Hokus Yellows or Asix Meta Speed Edges or on CloudBroom Strikes.
[1:12:06] SPEAKER_01: And you think if I want to run as fast as them or be the best runner I have, I need one of these pairs of shoes.
[1:12:12] SPEAKER_01: And the hype with all the events, like breaking two, is what started it all.
[1:12:16] SPEAKER_01: And you see, you see all this hype generated by brands that it got kind of like brainwashes you to think, oh my God, if I don't have these shoes, I'm literally bleeding time to people who do wear them.
[1:12:27] SPEAKER_01: And I think that statement does become truer the shorter the length of the run you race.
[1:12:34] SPEAKER_01: For example, if you're racing a 5k off the bike or if you've got a 5k park run and you want to absolutely hammer that and send it, it's most likely true for the majority of us that these type of shoes will help you to run fast over that distance.
[1:12:47] SPEAKER_01: However, this is what I'm passionate about.
[1:12:49] SPEAKER_01: The longer the run is in your race, the less true this becomes for a lot of us and more of us than you think.
[1:12:55] SPEAKER_01: Super shoes have really high energy returns because of the foam they use combined with the plate that they use.
[1:13:02] SPEAKER_01: However, the foam they use is also, generally speaking, very unstable in nature and the platform of the shoe is narrow, particularly through the mid to rear foot, which creates more instability.
[1:13:12] SPEAKER_01: This means that the natural mechanical movements of your foot and ankle are exaggerated in these shoes.
[1:13:17] SPEAKER_01: They're also generally very light and have minimalistic uppers that provide a level of lockdown that's quite a bit lower than your general training shoe, which further exacerbates how unstable the shoe acts on your foot.
[1:13:30] SPEAKER_01: What a lot of people find is that the longer the race goes in these shoes, the more this can start to lead to issues.
[1:13:36] SPEAKER_01: It can be feeling more fatigued in your legs, cramping, mechanical breakdown, the list goes on.
[1:13:41] SPEAKER_01: What people don't realize is that there are so many great options for the large majority of us.
[1:13:47] SPEAKER_01: All brands make what are called super trainers, which generally are runners that use similar foams, but versions of the foams that are more dense and stable than the super shoe option from that brand.
[1:13:59] SPEAKER_01: They can use more stable plates, they often have a more robust upper and broader platform.
[1:14:05] SPEAKER_01: And what all these things do is make the shoe better for you over the back half of a longer race.
[1:14:10] SPEAKER_01: They might be slower for you over 1K or 5K, but they might be faster for you over 21.1k or the marathon 42.2K, and definitely those distances off the bike where you're experiencing huge levels of mechanical breakdown and fatigue.
[1:14:25] SPEAKER_01: I'd say the more prone you are to leg fatigue related issues in races, the bigger and heavier you are, the more lower limb injuries you've had over your time.
[1:14:34] SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe you're returning from a run-related injury, or your run volume just has been low, or you're not a seasoned running campaigner.
[1:14:42] SPEAKER_01: There's some of the key factors I'd consider uh in racing in a super trainer versus a super shoe.
[1:14:47] SPEAKER_01: Some examples of great super training options for you might be the New Balance Supercomp trainer, the Mizuno Neo Vista, the Hoker Mark X, uh ASIC Superblast, or the Socony Endorphin Trainer.
[1:15:01] SPEAKER_01: But every single running shoe brand has one of these options.
[1:15:04] SPEAKER_01: They're also cheaper, to Justin's point.
[1:15:06] SPEAKER_01: These are much more budget-friendly options that could be better for you because something you learn once you're a part of the one with the running industry, more expensive, does not equal better.
[1:15:18] SPEAKER_01: It has nothing to do with the shoe being better or faster for you simply because it costs more.
[1:15:25] SPEAKER_03: Justin, I hope you wrote down those super trainer options for your next race.
[1:15:28] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
[1:15:30] SPEAKER_02: Put the uh put the alpha flies in the closet, see if I could take Ari with a pair of you know, Nova Blast or how many people I this actually does piss me off.
[1:15:40] SPEAKER_03: Uh so like I'm sure, Jack, that's why you brought it up, but you'll just be out running or walking, just out and about, and you see some guy who's uh either maybe not even a runner.
[1:15:51] SPEAKER_03: Like I'll see someone walking around in a pair of vapor flies, and I'm like, why did you buy those shoes?
[1:15:55] SPEAKER_03: Carbon in the wild, dude.
[1:15:59] SPEAKER_02: There's a whole Instagram page.
[1:16:01] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:16:01] SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's good.
[1:16:02] SPEAKER_02: Airport, you know, you need that stability in the airport, even though they're the least stable shoes ever.
[1:16:06] SPEAKER_02: You just get the bounce.
[1:16:07] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's crazy.
[1:16:09] SPEAKER_05: I got a question though for Jack, because he seems like he's a running shoe expert a little bit, even though he's self-proclaimed, as we say on the show, self-proclaimed running expert.
[1:16:17] SPEAKER_05: How many shoes should you have in like in like a month rotation?
[1:16:21] SPEAKER_05: Like, say a month of running.
[1:16:22] SPEAKER_05: How many shoes do you think like a pro runner would go through?
[1:16:26] SPEAKER_02: How many let's go with triathon?
[1:16:28] SPEAKER_02: This is a triathlon podcast.
[1:16:29] SPEAKER_02: Let's say the average just you know elite age grouper running 30 to 50 miles a week.
[1:16:34] SPEAKER_02: They got a long run and one key session and one short brick.
[1:16:38] SPEAKER_02: Like that's that's 70% of our listeners, I bet you.
[1:16:40] SPEAKER_02: Like what what you know, what do you think, Jack?
[1:16:43] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
[1:16:44] SPEAKER_01: So um, Greg, firstly, talking about running shoe rotations makes me horny.
[1:16:50] SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite topics on on planet Earth.
[1:16:52] SPEAKER_01: Like I could talk about it all day.
[1:16:54] SPEAKER_01: And I think really an underrated topic of conversation amongst triathletes.
[1:16:59] SPEAKER_01: So running shoe rotations have changed over time.
[1:17:02] SPEAKER_01: So historically, the way we've thought about categories of shoes is very different to how the running industry thinks about them now.
[1:17:09] SPEAKER_01: Historically, we probably in a rotation might have had one or or numerous of these categories.
[1:17:16] SPEAKER_01: We would have had a daily jogging shoe, we might have had a trail shoe, we might have had a session shoe and a race shoe.
[1:17:23] SPEAKER_01: And for some people, maybe like a recovery day shoe.
[1:17:26] SPEAKER_01: They're kind of like the options that you could have, but the majority of people would just have their daily training shoe, and they might have one or two of them that they use for the majority of their training, and then a session shoe.
[1:17:37] SPEAKER_01: So let's say you do two one or two sessions a week, you might use the session shoe for that, and then your daily trainer for everything else, you know, your easy runs, your recovery runs, your weekend long run.
[1:17:46] SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what historically has been the case in the running industry forever.
[1:17:50] SPEAKER_01: However, it's kind of changed now where we have so many more categories of shoes.
[1:17:54] SPEAKER_01: And I think even the category of shoes have changed.
[1:17:57] SPEAKER_01: Like now, for example, we still have daily trainers, but we also have like daily fun trainers.
[1:18:02] SPEAKER_01: And there's a big difference between them because we have shoes that are really fun to jog in, make jogging feel real easy, but then we have things that aren't quite as super, you know, like we have a Nike Vermero 18, which is a daily trainer that makes it very hard to run fast in.
[1:18:15] SPEAKER_01: But then we have like um something like a Nike Invincible, which is softer, bouncier, funner to run in.
[1:18:22] SPEAKER_01: Then we also have like fast training shoes, which are kind of like for most people, they're they're the shoe I just talked about.
[1:18:30] SPEAKER_01: They're like the super trainer.
[1:18:31] SPEAKER_01: And then we have a session shoe or a race shoe, which is like the Alpha Fly or those kind of shoes.
[1:18:36] SPEAKER_01: Then we we still have trail shoes as well.
[1:18:38] SPEAKER_01: We now have maximal shoes like a Hoker Bondi or a you know uh a New Balance Moor, which you might use for recovery runs.
[1:18:45] SPEAKER_01: There's just so many more options now for so many different things.
[1:18:48] SPEAKER_01: And it's very tricky to decide which shoes we should wear, what category of shoes we need, and when we should use them.
[1:18:55] SPEAKER_01: I would say for the majority of people, you should have three different shoes in your rotation.
[1:19:01] SPEAKER_01: And that can vary depending on what it is you're doing.
[1:19:03] SPEAKER_01: If you're someone who's running consistently and you're doing some daily jogging, you're doing a couple of sessions a week, you're doing a long run a week.
[1:19:10] SPEAKER_01: I think you should have um one race day shoe, one session shoe, and one daily jogging shoe.
[1:19:17] SPEAKER_01: That's at minimum.
[1:19:18] SPEAKER_01: I think the next step from that is to have two daily jogging shoes, one fast, one session shoe, and one race day shoe.
[1:19:25] SPEAKER_01: So let me give you some examples of this.
[1:19:28] SPEAKER_01: With the daily jogging shoes, they should be safer options.
[1:19:31] SPEAKER_01: You know, stable neutral shoes, maybe a shoe with medial support if you're someone who needs it.
[1:19:35] SPEAKER_01: Although, don't get me styled on that, barely any of you probably need that.
[1:19:39] SPEAKER_01: Stable neutral shoes are probably the option for 90% of you right now, if not more.
[1:19:44] SPEAKER_01: So I'd say everyone should have two stable neutral shoes, shoes like your Vomero from Nike, Nimbus from ASICs, um, Triumph from Socony, New Balance 1080, all those kind of things.
[1:19:55] SPEAKER_01: The Cloud Monster from on.
[1:19:56] SPEAKER_02: Um ASICs, what was that brand?
[1:19:59] SPEAKER_02: You mentioned We're not American, ASICs.
[1:20:02] SPEAKER_01: Uh and then yeah, have a session shoe, something like what I just said, like a new balance supercomp trainer, or a zoom fly from Nike, or those kind of things, and then a race day shoe, an alpha fly, or if you're someone who's going to race in a super uh super trainer, which I think is a lot of you, then have that.
[1:20:17] SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you just rotate them as as regularly as possible.
[1:20:20] SPEAKER_01: The reason you do it, Greg, is because foam compresses when you wear it, right?
[1:20:24] SPEAKER_01: So when you run in a shoe, the foam compresses and then over a period of time it decompresses.
[1:20:29] SPEAKER_01: Now, most brands will tell you that this process takes about 48 hours to go back to pretty much what it was prior to wearing it.
[1:20:37] SPEAKER_01: So if you run in a shoe, 48 hours later, the foam should be back to pretty much what it was.
[1:20:42] SPEAKER_01: But if you're running on a shoe, let's say you're running seven times a week and you're running on a shoe every 24 hours, that foam's just gonna compress more and more over time, making the shoe slightly more unstable the more you wear it.
[1:20:52] SPEAKER_01: So that's why having a number of daily training shoes to rotate through is a smart option.
[1:20:58] SPEAKER_01: It actually increases the shelf life of the shoe.
[1:21:01] SPEAKER_01: So you'll get more mileage out of the shoe.
[1:21:03] SPEAKER_01: So if you are going to buy new shoes and you can afford to buy two daily trainers instead of one now and then one when that one's done, they'll bought they'll actually last you longer and save you money if you can buy them at the same time because you'll get more out of the foam and they'll feel better to run in over time.
[1:21:18] SPEAKER_01: And that also probably decreases injury risk a little bit more because the foam stays a little bit more stable.
[1:21:24] SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that's all the questions answered.
[1:21:26] SPEAKER_01: It's I know it's confusing.
[1:21:27] SPEAKER_01: Running shoes are confusing, and running shoe rotation is confusing.
[1:21:30] SPEAKER_01: But the takeaway is yes, you should be rotating shoes quite regularly.
[1:21:34] SPEAKER_01: It's it's better for you.
[1:21:36] SPEAKER_01: And the more shoes you can afford without you know going crazy on your budget, the better.
[1:21:40] SPEAKER_01: And the more variety, the better.
[1:21:42] SPEAKER_01: It's it's good to shift load when you run.
[1:21:44] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is this just in Justin's wife.
[1:21:46] SPEAKER_03: We got screenshots of her asking him to return all the shoes he bought.
[1:21:51] SPEAKER_03: Got a couple of things.
[1:21:51] SPEAKER_03: And he said, he said, that's Jack's fault.
[1:21:53] SPEAKER_03: Blame Jack.
[1:21:54] SPEAKER_04: I did actually.
[1:21:56] SPEAKER_02: It was great.
[1:21:57] SPEAKER_02: I'm really liking the Neo Vista too, though.
[1:21:59] SPEAKER_02: She's like, what are the Pumas in the box?
[1:22:01] SPEAKER_02: Didn't you just buy it?
[1:22:01] SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you know, you got your long run shoe, your stability shoe.
[1:22:05] SPEAKER_02: I like I say it, but not as eloquently as Jack did.
[1:22:08] SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, boys.
[1:22:09] SPEAKER_01: That's today's episode done.
[1:22:11] SPEAKER_01: Uh, more of a serious one than than we're used to.
[1:22:13] SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I thought it was good.
[1:22:14] SPEAKER_01: I thought the discussion with headlines was good, and it was another good weekend of racing.
[1:22:18] SPEAKER_01: And hopefully you got some value from uh our first edition of Triton Mith Mythbusters.
[1:22:22] SPEAKER_01: Justin, Greg, Ari, thanks for being here for another week.
[1:22:25] SPEAKER_01: It was fun.
[1:22:25] SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having us, Jack.
[1:22:26] SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
[1:22:27] SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Jack.

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