# T100 CEO Sam Renouf Addresses “Tough” 2025

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 20 Aug 2025, 1 h 12 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698038-t100-ceo-sam-renouf-addresses-tough-2025.mp3

CEO of the T100 Sam Renouf joins us to talk about everything that’s been happening in the T100 sphere. He addresses the France course change, Valencia’s last minute cancellation and location change, the Vegas cancellation and change to Wollongong, their financial struggles & if they were the reason athletes 2024 end of year bonuses weren’t paid until now, whether having races in the Middle East is purely for money, whether the T100 model is better than the PTO Open model of 2023, will athletes contracts be released and whether the contract model is working, field sizes, will the T100 seriously be going to the Olympics and will they be taking over Alp D’Huez Triathlon, who does Sam Renouf answer to for his performance and how do the T100 come to the decisions they come to. There’s also lots more in there to look forward to and hopefully we asked every question you could possibly want! Nord VPN: Take advantage of a great deal with Nord VPN use the code triathlonhour or visit nordvpn.com/triathlonhour to get a huge discount in the 2 year plans PLUS 4 extra months! It is risk free with Nord's 30 days money back guarantee! Precision: Use the code TTH25 to get 15% off your first order with Precision at Precision Fuel & Hydration or subscribe to the Patreon and access the link that will save you 20% on every order, not just your first Patreon Pillar: Use the code TTH to get 15% off your first order with Pillar Performance at Pillar Performance or use The Feed for North American customers Patreon: We put a lot of time & energy into bringing you this podcast every week and have done for 4 years now. If you appreciate what we do, we would love your support and you can do so for less than the cost of a coffee per week on Patreon - Patreon link

## Transcript

[0:28] SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Trithon Hour.
[0:30] SPEAKER_00: I'm a little bit nervous about this one.
[0:32] SPEAKER_00: I can feel my heart beating in my chest just a little bit because this is one of the most powerful people in Triton who only this week I called the most under pressure person in Triton.
[0:42] SPEAKER_00: We haven't talked for a year.
[0:43] SPEAKER_00: Sam Ranoof, it's good to have you back on the Triton Hour.
[0:46] SPEAKER_01: It's good to be back.
[0:47] SPEAKER_01: Glad to hear that I get at least someone's heart rate going.
[0:49] SPEAKER_01: Um there can't be too many people in the world that I do that to, but it's uh it's a nice introduction, Jack.
[0:55] SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
[0:55] SPEAKER_00: You haven't been married for that long, have you?
[0:58] SPEAKER_01: Um coming up 10 years, actually.
[0:59] SPEAKER_01: We're celebrating our uh 10th anniversary next year.
[1:02] SPEAKER_01: We were just talking about it the other day.
[1:03] SPEAKER_01: So um that's the minimum, yeah.
[1:05] SPEAKER_00: All right, Sam.
[1:06] SPEAKER_00: I want to start with the tough stuff, and maybe we can progress into the fun stuff a little bit later.
[1:12] SPEAKER_00: So let's start with the uh the long list of controversies.
[1:16] SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe start with France.
[1:17] SPEAKER_01: You do know, Jack, that's the opposite way you're supposed to interview someone, right?
[1:20] SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to buffer them up, get them really relaxed, right?
[1:23] SPEAKER_01: And then you throw in some clanger that they trip up on.
[1:26] SPEAKER_01: But like we can do it the other way around if you like.
[1:28] SPEAKER_01: It's that's totally fine.
[1:29] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[1:30] SPEAKER_00: That's classic gotcha journalism, though.
[1:32] SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do the gotcha stuff.
[1:33] SPEAKER_01: I don't want to Okay, it's gonna hit straight in.
[1:36] SPEAKER_01: Pressure, pressure time.
[1:37] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you what was it you call being the most under pressure person in the sport?
[1:40] SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I completely agree.
[1:43] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think there are some athletes out there that probably the you know, the intensity when you're on the start line surrounded by everyone looking at you is probably more pressure than what I go through.
[1:52] SPEAKER_01: But um, maybe on the business side I I would take it, and it's been a yeah, tough, tough year, but happy to talk about it.
[1:59] SPEAKER_00: Let's start with France.
[2:00] SPEAKER_00: It's the next race on the T100 calendar.
[2:03] SPEAKER_00: Now, I guess the controversy around France is that the course has changed last minute, and maybe some uh age group participants didn't like that because the course was, in my opinion, going to be the best bike course on the circuit, and now is probably more of a a more boring style crit course than what it could have been.
[2:23] SPEAKER_00: And what what what happened there?
[2:25] SPEAKER_00: Why the changes?
[2:26] SPEAKER_00: Can people get refunds if they don't want to do the race because of the changes?
[2:30] SPEAKER_01: Um, yes.
[2:31] SPEAKER_01: The last answer to your question is yes, we've we've offered refunds to folks if they if they feel having um gone through this process that they rather not race.
[2:38] SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, look, France is probably it's one of our races that probably has the most upside, but has been the most challenging.
[2:43] SPEAKER_01: So I agree with your statement just before that it has probably one of the best bike courses um on the on the scene or on the circuit.
[2:50] SPEAKER_01: We're very fortunate that we managed to retain the um the permissions for the pros, but at relatively short notice, we lost the permit or we lost the authority to have it for the age creepers on the next day.
[3:01] SPEAKER_01: And and the reason for that is what I just said, it's about two days of racing.
[3:04] SPEAKER_01: And I think often people forget because we do get compared very logically to the other players in the space, Iron Man Challenge and the and the rest, that oh, how come those guys can organize races so much better than us?
[3:14] SPEAKER_01: Now, for a start, you know, quite a long head start on us in terms of many years of organizing things, so that sort of goes into it.
[3:21] SPEAKER_01: But secondly, and this is the bit which people forget, is that in general, the majority of races that the PTO is doing is across two days, sometimes even more.
[3:30] SPEAKER_01: It's a significantly higher road closure request or need from the local city, and we try to do it always in iconic locations, and so they're either famous by the um the landscape that you've got.
[3:43] SPEAKER_01: So, like the the city of Frajus may not be famous, but the area of Saint Tropez, San Rafael, the Frinchia Vieira certainly is and fits that iconic sort of um label, or you're in the middle of a city like Singapore and London, and there is there are many reasons why other triathlons don't take place in locations like that, and one of them is just how difficult the road closures have been.
[4:03] SPEAKER_01: Um it's not an excuse, but it is a reason for the challenges we've gone through.
[4:06] SPEAKER_00: It seems to be a little bit of a recurring theme that things catch the T100 by surprise.
[4:13] SPEAKER_00: Do you agree with that statement?
[4:14] SPEAKER_00: And and if so, why is that happening?
[4:17] SPEAKER_01: Um That's a really interesting point, actually.
[4:20] SPEAKER_01: I haven't thought about it in that way.
[4:22] SPEAKER_01: What I would probably say is if you take the last, let's let's sort of look back retrospectively a little bit.
[4:27] SPEAKER_01: The last 12 months have been very, very challenging for the PTO for two for two reasons.
[4:32] SPEAKER_01: Um, one of them is public and one of them is not particularly public, but I'm happy to talk about them.
[4:36] SPEAKER_01: Um the first was our fundraise that we were very, very excited to announce just about three or four weeks ago now, um, took us a lot longer than we thought, and it took up a lot of capacity of the organization.
[4:48] SPEAKER_01: And look, there are lots of people who I imagine listen to this podcast who've you know worked in venture-backed businesses or work in finance themselves and will know that when you're going to raise money, it's like selling a like selling a house, it's like anything.
[4:59] SPEAKER_01: It takes up a lot of your time and energy.
[5:01] SPEAKER_01: And so I would say, I don't know what the exact percentage for the whole team would be, but I mean upwards of 30, 40, maybe even 50% of people's time focused on that rather than the day-to-day business.
[5:12] SPEAKER_01: And the unfortunate impact is that um things slip through, right?
[5:16] SPEAKER_01: So if mistakes happen because you're not as prepared, or mistakes, I don't think that's the phrase you use, like unfortunate things happen if you're maybe not as prepared.
[5:23] SPEAKER_01: The reason being is that we're spending half of our capacity on something that no one else is having to do.
[5:27] SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of the that was the first thing that happened.
[5:30] SPEAKER_01: And then secondly, we had a very large sponsor that we worked on for quite some time fall through.
[5:35] SPEAKER_01: It was really unfortunate, but it is what it is.
[5:37] SPEAKER_01: You don't spill over crying milk.
[5:38] SPEAKER_01: It's why we haven't um you don't cry over spilt milk.
[5:41] SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
[5:42] SPEAKER_01: That's the right phrase.
[5:43] SPEAKER_01: Um, it's why we haven't really talked about it publicly, but we'd spend a lot of time to bring in a significant, I mean, when I say significant, let's say I'm not gonna say the exact amount, but bigger than any other sponsor in the whole of Tratlon was gonna come on board.
[5:57] SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, it fell through about nine, ten months ago.
[6:00] SPEAKER_01: And so if you take a fundraise and an anticipated slug of revenue and um commercial benefit away, it causes strain on the organization.
[6:11] SPEAKER_01: Now, that said, I am proud beyond belief of the team.
[6:15] SPEAKER_01: The fact that we managed to get through that and ultimately successfully deliver the fundraise, deliver the races.
[6:21] SPEAKER_01: Last year's events, the first year of the tour, being fantastic.
[6:26] SPEAKER_01: This year, a lot more challenges, very admittedly, but at least we've got through them and survived.
[6:31] SPEAKER_01: And now we're in a position to, you know, without sounding too cliched, you know, we've survived and now we will thrive because we have the backing and the finances and the team to really go on and do some amazing things.
[6:41] SPEAKER_01: And that's where, you know, long answer to your question.
[6:44] SPEAKER_01: I agree with you on the point about pressure, right?
[6:46] SPEAKER_01: It's been a lot of pressure getting to this point so far.
[6:48] SPEAKER_01: But actually, I'd now argue that probably the pressure on me personally and the team goes up even more because we are actually in this position, like genuinely once in a lifetime position, where we've established a brand, we've established the tour, we've got new financing from very, very deep pocketed strategic investors that want to want and believe in the growth of triathlon, and now we get to go out and do it.
[7:12] SPEAKER_01: So it's both challenging but also super exciting at the same time, and I guess that's where you know pressure is a privilege.
[7:18] SPEAKER_00: Would it be a fair statement to say that when that sponsorship fell through and when you were working through the latest series of funding, that had that funding not come through, the T100 would be in a position where it may not have been able to survive?
[7:33] SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
[7:34] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.
[7:36] SPEAKER_01: We're we're an early stage investment-backed company.
[7:39] SPEAKER_01: So if the investment wasn't there, the I mean T100 might have survived, but certainly not at the level that we're doing it, right?
[7:46] SPEAKER_01: And that should neither be a surprise to anyone nor like really shocking, because that's just kind of how these things work, right?
[7:51] SPEAKER_01: If you you go back to a lot of um the biggest, most impactful companies in the world right now were launched by investors and venture capital.
[8:00] SPEAKER_01: And so in the early years, they require investment to go and create what they're doing, and then they build up and eventually become very, very, very profitable.
[8:07] SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you just use a really recent example, you look at what the incredible progress UFC has had, but UFC in its early days lost a fortune for its investors.
[8:16] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, um, and when I say lost a fortune, that sounds like a bad thing.
[8:19] SPEAKER_01: Like, but it's not.
[8:20] SPEAKER_01: Like it was an investment plan to go and build up the property.
[8:23] SPEAKER_01: And if you rewind back, I think I'm I don't know the numbers off to my head.
[8:26] SPEAKER_01: I think it was something like 40 or 50 million dollars they lost in the first couple of years, then they turned the turned the corner, started to get regulated, were allowed to have competitions, and you fast forward to now, I think it's worth like$30 billion.
[8:38] SPEAKER_01: It's a publicly listed company.
[8:40] SPEAKER_01: And the thing I heard at the weekend, you may know this if you're a UFC fan, is it looks like they're gonna have a UFC fight in the White House in um next year to celebrate uh some some the some milestone they're doing.
[8:51] SPEAKER_01: But to go from a sport that was banned in most of the states to being put on in the White House and worth an absolute fortune, that's the kind of aspirations we have.
[8:59] SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not saying we're gonna do a triathlon in the White House, but you know, it's changing things and making them big.
[9:04] SPEAKER_01: And in the early days, you have to invest to go and do that, and that's what we've been we've been doing.
[9:08] SPEAKER_00: Everyone knows Donald Trump loves the triathlon, so never say never.
[9:11] SPEAKER_01: Um well, you say that, you know, Donald Trump's daughter-in-law did a triathlon last year and she's done several, you know?
[9:16] SPEAKER_01: Um so yes, yeah, yeah.
[9:18] SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't wouldn't be surprised.
[9:19] SPEAKER_01: You would be careful about mixing politics and and sport.
[9:22] SPEAKER_00: But um no political affiliations here.
[9:25] SPEAKER_00: Um so Sam, given that that's that's the case, that if this latest series of funding didn't come through that the T100 was going to be in financial trouble, how long do you have from now rid this funding until you find yourself back in that position where you've run out of the money from this series of funding and the the T100 needs to become profitable or you'll be back in a position where the T100's future may be in question?
[9:52] SPEAKER_01: So we're on track at the moment.
[9:53] SPEAKER_01: I'm very happy to say, on track with our original plan, which is that by 2027 the T100 would be profitable on a on a sort of commercial basis.
[10:02] SPEAKER_01: So we're on track regardless to hit our goals, which is great.
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you know, we have to go and deliver great events and not have last-minute snafus of courses being changed and things like that to go and do that, but happy to share the metrics have all sort of moved in the right direction to do that.
[10:16] SPEAKER_01: Um, and so the fundraise we have gets us to that point and indeed a bit further.
[10:21] SPEAKER_01: Now, we might choose to go and do some more things, some more exciting things.
[10:25] SPEAKER_01: You've uh you would have seen what we did with the T1 as a test.
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: There's been talk of a T200, I'm sure you're going to bring that up.
[10:32] SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we might choose to go and do some more things, and that might lead to raising a little bit more money from those investors.
[10:37] SPEAKER_01: But um I think everyone, from certainly from a triathlon perspective, can be very happy or feel confident, at least, maybe even if they're not happy, it's not the right word to use, um, that the PTO is in a great position financially now.
[10:50] SPEAKER_01: We've got some very, very forward-thinking strategic investors, um, and they're all aligned on really taking this sport mainstream.
[10:58] SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was one of the you know, very big claims that I almost got nervous about, frankly, when we launched the T100 last year.
[11:05] SPEAKER_01: Our chairman came out, guns are blazing, saying, look, the ambitions of the PTO is to not only improve biotriathlon, but to take it into the mainstream.
[11:13] SPEAKER_01: Um, and now that doesn't happen overnight, but within a certain time frame, could that happen?
[11:16] SPEAKER_01: And I used the example of UFC just before as like how it does.
[11:19] SPEAKER_01: The investors that have just joined us have joined and are investing exactly with that goal in mind.
[11:25] SPEAKER_01: Um, and these are very strategic investors, right?
[11:29] SPEAKER_01: They're all three are private equity firms, they're all traditionally investing relatively later stage, so it's not early, early stuff.
[11:35] SPEAKER_01: Like so Michael Moritz is is world famous as being the investor that comes in really, really early and is backed, you know, Airbnb when it was, you know, three guys in the you know in an office, and as an example of the many, many businesses backed.
[11:47] SPEAKER_01: These guys are a little bit different.
[11:48] SPEAKER_01: This is more private equity focused, so it's backing established businesses that are ramping up and going fast.
[11:54] SPEAKER_01: And we've got two new US investors that came on board, and then Surge, which is um from the Middle East from Saudi Arabia, and these are groups that are making massive bets on changing sports.
[12:04] SPEAKER_01: So again, like without obviously I'm I'm biased because I'm in the middle of all of this, but from a if you take a sort of step back from a triathlon perspective, regardless of whether you like the PTO, whether you like Iron Man Challenger or anything, you've got to be really, really excited by this kind of capital and this kind of talent coming into the sport because it's gonna have amazing impact.
[12:22] SPEAKER_00: And then there was some speculation that maybe the end of year bonuses that athletes were owed from a promise by the PTO weren't being paid because the PTO didn't have money for it, and then you got this series of funding and that did start to get paid.
[12:37] SPEAKER_00: Is it true that you didn't have the money to even afford that until this funding came through?
[12:43] SPEAKER_01: Not quite, not quite as black, black and white is white white as that, but it's sort of everything's interlinked together, right?
[12:48] SPEAKER_01: So we've got we had a commitment to the athletes for the rankings last year.
[12:51] SPEAKER_01: We also have a commitment to multiple races that are going on this year, as well as the prize money for the athletes that are racing.
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: And so what we had to do is really, really carefully balance our expenses, given we had a delay on the fundraising round and that major sponsor didn't come through.
[13:05] SPEAKER_01: And I'll be very open about it.
[13:07] SPEAKER_01: Things got incredibly tight.
[13:09] SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we had to be careful about it.
[13:12] SPEAKER_01: And it took far long.
[13:13] SPEAKER_01: We were not happy about it by any sense of the word.
[13:14] SPEAKER_01: It's probably the thing that I most regret this year was the that got stretched.
[13:18] SPEAKER_01: And it's by the way, not just the athletes, right?
[13:19] SPEAKER_01: The athletes are a very important stakeholder, but also some of our delivery partners um were paid later than we'd anticipated.
[13:26] SPEAKER_01: But they had visibility and they understood why.
[13:28] SPEAKER_01: And they knew that ultimately we were good for it.
[13:30] SPEAKER_01: But with the two things that had come along causing the delays, that uh it was going to take a bit of time to get people paid.
[13:36] SPEAKER_01: So once we had complete visibility that look, the big sponsor didn't come through, but the fundraising was in, we had the comfort that look, we can go and and pay down the debts and get things moving so that nothing would impact the rest of the year.
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: Uh, and as I'm sure you're aware, this doesn't always go that way.
[13:52] SPEAKER_01: It's been really unfortunate to see what's happened in Grand Slam track, um, which is, you know, a comparable business to us, I guess.
[13:58] SPEAKER_01: You know, someone coming to disrupting the athletics market.
[14:01] SPEAKER_01: And uh they unfortunately had a had a they didn't have a sponsor dropout.
[14:05] SPEAKER_01: I think they had a major investor not come through, and all of a sudden they have a big, big cash crunch and weren't able to deliver the event.
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: Now, we didn't want to be in a position like that, and I have huge empathy for them given what we've been through.
[14:15] SPEAKER_01: I've no doubt someone of Michael Johnson's talent is going to bring on other investors and that they'll come through the other side.
[14:21] SPEAKER_01: But these things do happen, and I'm very glad to be talking about it now that we've got past it and got everyone paid and focused on the future.
[14:28] SPEAKER_01: It's also one of the reasons why um we've been pretty heads down, um, not really talking that much publicly about what we've been doing, because you know, when you know, if you're not performing at your best, I mean the the sporting analogy I would use is is if an athlete's injured, they're not really out there talking much.
[14:43] SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you know you're fighting fit, then you're happy to get into like smack talk and and be a bit more jovi about things.
[14:49] SPEAKER_01: And so we've been very much had the last six, nine months looking inward, um, focused on getting, you know, excuse my language, our shit together to allow us to then have the platform to move forward.
[14:59] SPEAKER_01: And I'm very glad to see, you know, that's where we are now and moving forward, and hence us jumping back on a podcast after it's been what, three or four months of us talking about having this, and I've said, look, not quite ready yet, like lots of news to share, but let us get through some things first.
[15:12] SPEAKER_01: And now that we've got through those things, we can focus on the future.
[15:15] SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's a quick little side note from me.
[15:18] SPEAKER_00: Do you think that going forward you do need to be more public-facing?
[15:21] SPEAKER_00: And that when these spotfies, of which we're going to touch on quite a few more, pop up, that when they happen, you as the face of the T100, which you are as the CEO, do you need to get on the front foot and come out the day after it happens and do a video and explain what's happened rather than have all of these people questioning the T100 every time um something something new pops up.
[15:44] SPEAKER_01: So I think it'll be very different moving forward, just because as as you pointed out, again, I forget these afhras you use for like more things have happened to us this year than normal.
[15:53] SPEAKER_01: It's not to say that we won't face challenges, but it'll be different because we'll be more focused, because we'll be able to.
[15:57] SPEAKER_01: So I think it'll be a little bit different from a narrative perspective.
[16:01] SPEAKER_01: But in terms of the whether it's me personally or anybody else sort of speaking on behalf of the organization, um, yeah, I think there is now an opportunity that we can be a bit more forward-facing or outward-facing.
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: Um, we've got our shit together internally, and now we can focus on telling the sport and selling the sport.
[16:17] SPEAKER_01: Now that said, we've always been cautious that I don't want to be the story, and that's me personally, um, but also the PTO.
[16:24] SPEAKER_01: The story needs to be the athletes, right?
[16:25] SPEAKER_01: The story needs to be Hayden's incredible performance at the weekend and Lucy's tears in London, right?
[16:30] SPEAKER_01: That's what's exciting.
[16:31] SPEAKER_01: Me saying about whether X or Y sponsor came through or this kind of permit, like that's noise that we would, it's important to maybe some part parts of the sport, but we want the energy and the main focus of our media strategy or PR or comms or whatever you want to call it, it needs to be focused on the athletes and the incredible performances that they deliver because that's how the sport goes mainstream.
[16:52] SPEAKER_01: It's not from the PTO doing something massively different, it's from us being able to focus attention and get more eyeballs on the incredible performances that make up the sport, and then the rest will just follow naturally.
[17:04] SPEAKER_01: And so um that's probably the approach, maybe a short answer to your question.
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: Yes, we'll be doing a bit more moving forward.
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: That said, we don't want it to distract from the core thing which we deliver, which is the racing itself and the incredible performances of the athletes.
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: Valencia, which is uh the next stop after France on the T100 calendar.
[17:21] SPEAKER_00: Uh, new location out of again, what what appeared like kind of out of nowhere and like it did potentially blindside you.
[17:27] SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me the story of what happened there?
[17:29] SPEAKER_01: Sure, yeah.
[17:30] SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was an example where myself and our COO Patrick, who many of the athletes have got to know, and and many, if you watch the broadcast, will get to see that, especially around the finish line as he's racing around making sure everyone's safe as they finish.
[17:42] SPEAKER_01: Um, we were saying to ourselves, look, this is a good example of like sometimes like bad news just comes in multiples, right?
[17:47] SPEAKER_01: Like and we need to have our break soon, the having uh having suddenly this come really out of the blue and it did blindside us, especially because you know our delivery model in the majority of cases to work with what we call local organizing committees, so um people that are in the market where the events are on, because they'll have the connections and the capabilities and frankly the resources to do more than us, like flying around the world.
[18:09] SPEAKER_01: And our um partner in Spain is the Spanish Federation.
[18:13] SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone will question them being probably the most um experienced and robust federation in the sport, right?
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: They deliver more world championships than probably anyone else combined, really sophisticated team.
[18:25] SPEAKER_01: And even they were blindsided that like sometimes these things just happen, like with the uh the permissions around the port in Valencia.
[18:31] SPEAKER_01: So it was a real surprise.
[18:33] SPEAKER_01: Um the thing that we're proud of, and I I don't know when you're putting this out, Jack, but like with it, we're within days of announcing where it's going.
[18:39] SPEAKER_01: It's going just up the road in Spain, so I don't mind touching on it publicly.
[18:42] SPEAKER_01: It's um for us, we wanted to say that well, not just say, we wanted to deliver on the fact that we've said we're gonna have these races, athletes are committed to this time frame, we've already had disruptions early in the year, which we own, right?
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: That's that was our fault.
[18:55] SPEAKER_01: We would go absolutely out of our way to make sure that we could still have the pro races going ahead in a short distance from Valencia.
[19:03] SPEAKER_01: And so that's where we're gonna end up.
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: And we're um very, very grateful to both World Triathlon and the Spanish Spanish Federation, and indeed the local partners, who I I won't say who they are just yet, given it's not public, but there's been a bunch of work over the last 10 days to sort of save that race and make sure we have a great Spanish event still on the calendar.
[19:20] SPEAKER_01: So um it's a shame the World Cup won't be taking place.
[19:23] SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's just the nature of like doing a lot of like age group racing, World Cup plus T100 was a lot for a new venue to take on.
[19:31] SPEAKER_01: But we're very happy that either by the time this comes out or um in the next few days, we will have confirmed the Spanish T100 on the same date, and we will see some fantastic racing there, I'm sure.
[19:43] SPEAKER_00: But what actually happened?
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: What did blindside you?
[19:45] SPEAKER_00: What was the reason why it couldn't go ahead?
[19:48] SPEAKER_01: Permissions to use the water and the area around the port in Valencia.
[19:51] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the that's the official reason.
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: Oh no, and it's not just the official reason, it's the genuine reason, right?
[19:56] SPEAKER_01: It's not like a bullshit one of like, oh, we'll say it's this or that.
[19:58] SPEAKER_01: Like we were not allowed to use the uh the area.
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: And look, and there was all you know, talk of do you do a duathlon instead?
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: But the transition and the finish line was in an area also owned by the same permitting authority.
[20:09] SPEAKER_01: So when that permission went away, we just knew we had to find another, we had to scramble for another location.
[20:15] SPEAKER_01: Um and look, there are other events that take place around there, and I imagine they'll go through sort of similar kind of challenges now.
[20:20] SPEAKER_01: And so people will be looking at um permissions and making sure that it that it's okay for that part of the world.
[20:25] SPEAKER_01: Valencia is a fantastic location for sport.
[20:27] SPEAKER_01: They host the America's Cup, they have an amazing marathon, but um not triathlon this year at least.
[20:33] SPEAKER_00: So when that happens, do you think like do you reflect on it and go, we could have we could have done something to see this coming?
[20:40] SPEAKER_00: Like, was there was there negligence at all on the T100's part?
[20:44] SPEAKER_00: Or do you think that you did everything right and that kind of stuff just happens sometimes?
[20:48] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is one of those sort of just happens.
[20:51] SPEAKER_01: Look, I mean, I guess look, if we only did one race a year, would we be talking to that permitting authority more regularly to have maybe spotted it before we found out?
[21:00] SPEAKER_01: Potentially, you could say that.
[21:01] SPEAKER_01: Like we are we often talk about like the most incredible job that um like Felix does in Roth or Diana does in Kona, where like they live in the community, they're part of the community, they're obviously going to be more connected then than we are overseas.
[21:13] SPEAKER_01: Um, but and this is where the Spanish Federation came in.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: The fact that if it had just been the PTO and we'd been surprised, that would have been one thing.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: But the fact that an established event that's been a World Cup for several years was also um surprised, or um, I think shows that it was just one of those things that comes up.
[21:29] SPEAKER_01: And in a normal year, uh or if you did it last year, for example, if it had been the only thing that had happened, I think we would have all just gone, oh, you know, shucks, that is what it is.
[21:37] SPEAKER_01: The fact that we'd had other challenges this year, it's just been one of those tough years to deliver the T100, and we're all um feeling the scars of a tough year, frankly.
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[23:31] SPEAKER_00: So Vegas, obviously a location last year on the on the T100 circuit and was supposed to be again this year, and another last minute cancellation of that race.
[23:40] SPEAKER_00: It then gets changed to Woolengon in Australia, which isn't quite as close as maybe what your Spanish location change might be.
[23:48] SPEAKER_00: What happened there in Vegas?
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: I don't think I I haven't seen you guys come out and give the reason for why that event got cancelled yet.
[23:55] SPEAKER_00: What what's the story there?
[23:57] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so look, again, it's a it's a different impact, but it's consistent, is that we were not happy with the course that we were able to secure.
[24:07] SPEAKER_01: And while we have a course specifically being the bike course, um the if I take a step back and talk a little bit about the previous year, I think it was an event then then you were at, we had um a really great race, but a very, very, very impactful on the local community.
[24:23] SPEAKER_01: And basically the local community said, Look, if it stays like this, you're not coming back.
[24:26] SPEAKER_01: And so we then worked in the in the off period on an alternative bike course, um, but we weren't happy with it by the time we launched, or just after we launched.
[24:34] SPEAKER_01: And so we were pushing, pushing, pushing to say, look, there's an alternative, let's see what we could do here.
[24:39] SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, you have to say, look, you've run out of time to be able to get a safe course that can have the kind of capacities and growth that we want.
[24:46] SPEAKER_01: And it's better to put pens down rather than deliver a subpar performance that could either be risky safe safety-wise, which obviously is absolute non-starter, or be overly impactful on the community.
[24:56] SPEAKER_01: That means we never get welcome back.
[24:58] SPEAKER_01: It's better to put pens down and work longer term on a better, better course, which largely, and again, I've I've referenced the other sort of organizers in the space, would would definitely agree with me that these things tend to be 18, 24 months in planning.
[25:11] SPEAKER_01: We've we've bite we've been forced, frankly, because we launched late to do things much, much quicker than that.
[25:17] SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's just not possible.
[25:18] SPEAKER_01: So, this is one of those where we took the calculated risk of saying it's going to be better in the long term for our position in that market to step back and come back stronger than to deliver something we weren't happy with.
[25:31] SPEAKER_01: Now, the woolland gone piece, obviously, like other side of the world from a professional perspective, we were just very fortunate that we have been talking to World Triathlon about the concept of creating mega events or mega festivals where you're bringing, as we have in Fresh Juice in a few weeks' time, um, the World Triathlon Championship series alongside the T100, very best long course, very best short course, all live on TV.
[25:52] SPEAKER_01: Um, we really like that as a concept.
[25:54] SPEAKER_01: And so when we went through the issues with Vegas, we were obviously talking to World Triathlon, and they were like, well, look, maybe there's a window where we could bring this together alongside their biggest event.
[26:03] SPEAKER_01: And from memory, um, I think this is going to be one of the biggest World Triathlon Championship series grand finals that they've ever had.
[26:11] SPEAKER_01: And so being able to have the T100 within that is super cool.
[26:14] SPEAKER_01: Um you know, great crowds, great course.
[26:17] SPEAKER_01: And then we personally, on a from a more commercial side, get a really nice benefit because of course we're going to the Gold Coast, what will it be like six months later?
[26:24] SPEAKER_01: So being in the Australian market as a way to sort of showcase what triathlon is and then go up the coast for what we'll be delivering in 26 put us in a great position.
[26:32] SPEAKER_01: So it was actually after we got through the very, very sort of difficult side of the Vegas course structures, the Woolengong part of it was a very easy decision and something we we talked through um with our board, obviously recognizing that it's very different.
[26:47] SPEAKER_01: Australia, you know, Las Vegas to Willongong, very different, but that in the long run, again, another better decision for the sport.
[26:52] SPEAKER_00: And is there age group participants who after the Vegas change have you know had to change all of their plans?
[26:59] SPEAKER_00: And and if so, what will you do about that?
[27:02] SPEAKER_01: Yes, so um we did have that.
[27:04] SPEAKER_01: We went through refunds and various different processes.
[27:06] SPEAKER_01: This is one of the reasons why we pulled the we pulled the pin or pull the trigger, whatever the phrase you want to use, um, really early in Vegas.
[27:12] SPEAKER_01: So uh I appreciate you saying so last minute, but it's a last minute, it was at least six months out.
[27:16] SPEAKER_01: So far enough out that people are far less impacted.
[27:19] SPEAKER_01: Very different to say, you know, if something happens a week out or two weeks out when, you know, your your travels all booked or that you passed all your non-refund sort of policies on hotels and things like that.
[27:28] SPEAKER_01: So we were able to deal with that at the time and not be too impacted.
[27:32] SPEAKER_01: Now I'm very conscious of it.
[27:33] SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not something that that is lost on me that we have to be careful about making too many changes because you begin to lose trust with the various different stakeholders.
[27:42] SPEAKER_01: And that can be the professionals, that can be the age groupers.
[27:44] SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a fine line there that although we deliver some amazing races, some consumers, and I say consumers in sort of the general term, age groupers, um, have been impacted, and you can damage that trust.
[27:55] SPEAKER_01: Now we have to win that trust back by delivering great races that people see, like we did at the weekend in London, where people come away going, wow, that was amazing, and therefore talking about it to their friends and having the trust that they're going to come and have an amazing experience if they come and deliver at a race with us, because that's the one thing I feel particularly proud of being able to say fairly consistency across the consistently excuse me, across the board.
[28:17] SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you would agree this from the feedback you get.
[28:19] SPEAKER_01: Once people have experienced the T100 race, they're always, I mean, almost always saying, wow, this is better than I thought, better than the market conditions.
[28:27] SPEAKER_01: I'm getting, you know, there's more staff, there's more volunteers, it's safer, etc., etc., etc.
[28:31] SPEAKER_01: Um, but they have to go and experience that first.
[28:33] SPEAKER_01: And so we're very conscious of the impact we've had in a couple of different times on the community this year and and hope that we can put that past us and focus on building great things in into the future.
[28:42] SPEAKER_01: Now, it's also we've got to remember that what we asked the operations team to deliver is, you know, two days of extensive road closures.
[28:50] SPEAKER_01: This is a lot harder than us just doing it on a Sunday morning and the rest.
[28:54] SPEAKER_01: It all comes into some of these challenges we've had.
[28:56] SPEAKER_01: But we are very much planning for the long term.
[28:59] SPEAKER_01: One of the things that we're working pretty diligently on at the moment, where are we, middle of August, is that when we announce our calendar a bit later this year, we will announce a multi-year calendar.
[29:08] SPEAKER_01: And we think that's important to build trust to what I said beforehand is that we want people to know that it's fairly obvious with the fundraising we've just announced that financially we're here for the long run.
[29:17] SPEAKER_01: So now let's show operationally that we're also getting long-term host agreements from people or places that want us to come back.
[29:24] SPEAKER_01: I'm very happy to share that we're in a pretty good spot for that.
[29:27] SPEAKER_01: So um multiple year contracts, multiple year uh locations that we'll be announcing as part of our calendar later in the year.
[29:34] SPEAKER_00: Just quickly, if you if it if it is, if it can be said quickly, when do you expect that multi-year calendar to come out?
[29:40] SPEAKER_01: Um I'd like to, I think in general, I'd like to get it as early as possible.
[29:44] SPEAKER_01: So let's reference Formula One.
[29:46] SPEAKER_01: I think Formula One did it in June this year, for the following year.
[29:49] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[29:50] SPEAKER_01: Um, where I think I'm fairly sure it was June.
[29:52] SPEAKER_01: I think we need to aspire to that.
[29:54] SPEAKER_01: So I would like to be in a position where by mid-year we're doing it for the following.
[30:00] SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean for this year?
[30:02] SPEAKER_01: You know, October, November is probably the latest we can go, realistically.
[30:06] SPEAKER_01: Um, I think people start to make their racing decisions.
[30:09] SPEAKER_01: There's a sort of correlation between Kono and the start of the next year, right?
[30:12] SPEAKER_01: As people sort of get through their year, think about the next year.
[30:15] SPEAKER_01: Um, Wool and Gong is in the middle of October, that would be a pretty good time to be able to announce things, given we've got the whole triathlon community down there.
[30:21] SPEAKER_01: But it's also going to depend on us making sure we have what we can announce.
[30:24] SPEAKER_01: But the long-term aspiration, and when I say long-term, I don't mean very far off, is that people can know a couple of years out what's going on, where are we going to be, what are the dates, what are the approximate locations, because you know we might move around within a certain area, but knowing that we're in Dubai and that we're going to be like near Maidan or further south, um, 18 months to two years out.
[30:44] SPEAKER_00: And going back to Vegas, Justin Riale was on our podcast and he lives in Vegas and he said he'd heard some rumors.
[30:52] SPEAKER_00: I can't remember his exact words, it was something like a mega marathon in relation to the T100 was going to take place there.
[30:58] SPEAKER_00: And he was kind of like, Well, this person who's telling me this doesn't seem to know anything about sport, but uh maybe they're meaning that there's gonna be a T200 in Vegas.
[31:07] SPEAKER_00: Is that rumor true?
[31:09] SPEAKER_00: And if it's not true, is just the general rumour of a T200 coming in the next couple of years in the T100 circuit true?
[31:16] SPEAKER_01: So I don't know where the Mega Marathon piece came from.
[31:19] SPEAKER_01: That might be like a different, different event, to be fair.
[31:21] SPEAKER_01: Um, we have certainly considered, let's just take a step back.
[31:24] SPEAKER_01: And so, I guess two-part answer to your question.
[31:26] SPEAKER_01: Um, we have always said that we think we should focus on the T100, commercialize that, turn that into a meaningful television product that um media partners and sponsors and hosts are all buying into.
[31:37] SPEAKER_01: But that once we got once we felt comfortable with that, we would definitely explore other distances.
[31:42] SPEAKER_01: So last year, obviously did the T1, which we're really intrigued at.
[31:46] SPEAKER_01: We think that needs a lot of work, frankly, to be a bit more scalable, but the raw ingredients are there.
[31:50] SPEAKER_01: So that's something that I think has got a lot of potential in the future.
[31:53] SPEAKER_01: And we often talk to our athlete board about look something longer than the T100, um, since the very early days of the PTO.
[31:59] SPEAKER_01: So it's going to be sort of a matter of when rather than if.
[32:03] SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'd certainly love to see it one day.
[32:06] SPEAKER_01: Now, I I add the caveat though is that if we were to do it, it needs to be iconic locations that differentiated from the amazing events that already exist in the space because Iron Man does an incredible job.
[32:17] SPEAKER_01: Challenge does an incredible job with multiple of their events.
[32:20] SPEAKER_01: I mean, the majority of Challenger events tend to be shorter, but you know, Almir, Roth, and Taiwan are some of the biggest events in the world.
[32:26] SPEAKER_01: So if you're going to go and join that mix, you need to be adding value to that, to that space, if that's the right way of putting it.
[32:31] SPEAKER_01: So that comes from either something truly iconic from like a course perspective, you know, obviously Vegas is pretty iconic, right?
[32:38] SPEAKER_01: Um, or, or I should say rather or and a broadcast product that really works.
[32:43] SPEAKER_01: Um, because one of the reasons why we've gone with the T100 is the broadcast window for linear partners of around four hours in total, four and a half hours runtime, being sort of the max end that we can get from, say, a Warner Brothers or a Sky or a BN to give us their broadcast windows.
[32:57] SPEAKER_01: And so if you're going to suddenly increase that dramatically, you need to be offering something pretty special.
[33:02] SPEAKER_01: Um, and we don't have the answer for that yet.
[33:04] SPEAKER_01: So I would say we talk about it, we're thinking about it, but maybe not just yet.
[33:09] SPEAKER_00: I've always received heaps of meshes from people who listen to this podcast and are frustrated about how inconvenient it is to watch Triton or how annoying some aspects of trying to watch Triton are.
[33:20] SPEAKER_00: In the US, you're paying for one streaming service to watch Iron Man and sitting through ads, and I get lots of meshes about how for some races you can't even watch the replay of it after it's finished, and then in the UK, you're paying for another streaming service to watch T100.
[33:33] SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, in countries like Australia, you can watch both Iron Man and T100 for free on YouTube with way less ads, and it's just super convenient.
[33:41] SPEAKER_00: Then last year I was overseas a lot experiencing these issues for myself, so I started looking for a solution so that I could watch races while I was over there, and that's when I found Nord VPM.
[33:51] SPEAKER_00: I had never used Nord VPN before, and I bought it so I could set my country to Australia while I was overseas, and it was great.
[33:57] SPEAKER_00: Um, I've used it ever since.
[33:58] SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to them last week after having had lots of messages recently around the big races about people experiencing these problems to see if maybe they might want to help help me out with the issue and partner with the podcast so that everyone who listens could hear this and go and get it and get a big discount code and help solve the problem of making Triton a little bit easier to watch.
[34:20] SPEAKER_00: And luckily for us, they said they'd love to.
[34:22] SPEAKER_00: So with NordVPN, you can switch your virtual location to say Australia, for example, or any country in the world where Triton is free to stream, and suddenly you're watching both Iron Man and T100 for free with fewer ads on YouTube with no subscriptions needed.
[34:38] SPEAKER_00: You can then go and watch the replays of those races whenever you want to, so you don't have to stay up and watch them during the middle of the night or sacrifice other things you're doing on the weekend to watch them.
[34:47] SPEAKER_00: Um, I've also ended up keeping Nord VPN personally for over a year now because it works for so much more like unlocking streaming service libraries in other countries.
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[35:14] SPEAKER_00: So you don't need to go and buy a new subscription so that you can watch that TV show or movie in your country.
[35:20] SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so you don't need five streaming services per month that you pay pay for.
[35:24] SPEAKER_00: You can just have one or two and use NordVPN instead.
[35:27] SPEAKER_00: It's super quick, it's secure, and has personally saved me so much money.
[35:31] SPEAKER_00: I now only use two streaming services.
[35:34] SPEAKER_00: I'm not allowed to name which ones, but I only pay for two now because if you go and Google them, they've got pretty much everything on them somewhere in the world.
[35:40] SPEAKER_00: Um, I was, I think I was at five or six at my peak.
[35:43] SPEAKER_00: So it saved me heaps of money.
[35:45] SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I just watched literally everything I want.
[35:47] SPEAKER_00: So if you want to save yourself heaps of money, skip the ads uh on Triathlon and actually enjoy watching Trithlon for the first time, have access to replays, not have to have different subscription services, then go to NordVPN.com forward slash triathlon hour to get a huge discount on the two-year plans plus four extra months completely free on top of that.
[36:10] SPEAKER_00: It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee.
[36:15] SPEAKER_00: Um, the link to go and get it for yourself is also in the description of this episode.
[36:20] SPEAKER_00: And probably the last kind of I don't know, I don't know if it's controversial course change is that um if we we go back to last year where the grand final changed in the Middle East and then it ended up being Dubai, and then this year you've gone back to uh the Middle East for the last two races in the year in Dubai and Qatar.
[36:38] SPEAKER_00: And then on the weekend watching London, it kind of felt to me like that is your grand final, that is your biggest race, certainly in terms of how many people watch the race and how many people go to the race, it feels like your biggest race.
[36:50] SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's actually true by the numbers.
[36:53] SPEAKER_00: But why the decision to go to the Middle East for the last two races of the year, given the PTO is a British company, all of your staff are from Britain, I mean your home offices are there and it's your biggest race, why not make London your grand final?
[37:09] SPEAKER_01: So, great question, and there's probably quite a lot to this one then.
[37:12] SPEAKER_01: So, for a start, grand final tends to if we call a grand final a world championships, needs to take place at the end of the season.
[37:19] SPEAKER_01: And um, although the Excel Centre provides a wonderful indoor facility, I don't think anyone wants to do a triathlon in London in December.
[37:26] SPEAKER_01: That's a fair, easy statement, right?
[37:28] SPEAKER_01: Um, so it will be from a world championship perspective, we would struggle.
[37:32] SPEAKER_01: Um, I disagree with your comment that we're a British company, we're very much focused on being global.
[37:36] SPEAKER_01: It's one of the sort of benefits of the sport, and and that's not necessarily like a criticism of other sports.
[37:41] SPEAKER_01: Some are nationalistic, right?
[37:42] SPEAKER_01: It's like cricket, it's in for certain markets, they're very focused on the domestic market.
[37:46] SPEAKER_01: If you take a rights holder, they might only focus on being in one country.
[37:50] SPEAKER_01: Um, others are global, and the PCO is global in that nature.
[37:54] SPEAKER_01: We're about 70% of our team are in the UK, 30% are overseas.
[37:59] SPEAKER_01: Um, so definitely we're not sort of a British company, I would flag that.
[38:02] SPEAKER_01: In terms of the London race, I would say it's a flagship race rather than being like our our biggest.
[38:09] SPEAKER_01: Um, certainly from a participation perspective in pure triathlon terms, it's the biggest in Europe, right?
[38:15] SPEAKER_01: So we were just under 6,000 participants.
[38:17] SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's there's so much growth potential there that we're trying to work on.
[38:21] SPEAKER_01: So this was an event that was 12,000, 13,000 people back in the day, but it's not like that 12,000, 13,000 has dropped to 6,000.
[38:28] SPEAKER_01: We're just using the capacity for T100, right?
[38:30] SPEAKER_01: So if we took the T100 Pro races out and put Age Group races there instead, those numbers would go right back up because the race sells out really fast, all of the metrics show it.
[38:38] SPEAKER_01: So it's it shows it's got a lot of um growth potential.
[38:42] SPEAKER_01: So London's a great market.
[38:44] SPEAKER_01: It's also an iconic city, and we get a lot of support from the city.
[38:47] SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's a great race in itself, but not necessarily going to be our world championship.
[38:52] SPEAKER_01: The the other reason is is the Middle East, is there is two two things around the Middle East.
[38:57] SPEAKER_01: One is the benefit of calendar and and topography and climate.
[39:00] SPEAKER_01: So if an end-of-season event has to take place towards the end of the year, you can't do it in Europe, right?
[39:06] SPEAKER_01: Or you'd struggle to do it in Europe, I should say.
[39:07] SPEAKER_01: Maybe you go really southern Spain or southern Italy, but most of Europe is is off.
[39:12] SPEAKER_01: Certainly, most of the states is off.
[39:13] SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's a sort of a climate-based reason.
[39:17] SPEAKER_01: And the second one is economic.
[39:19] SPEAKER_01: It's that um anyone who's been asleep for the last few years would have realized how important sport has become to Middle Eastern governments, and they're willing to invest in a way that most are not.
[39:29] SPEAKER_01: And that's really around two things.
[39:31] SPEAKER_01: One is tourism and exposure, the fact that you know we're in Qatar and we're going to be bringing thousands of people to the country and spending money, but we'll also be showcasing the beauty of Qatar because it's a really wonderful, beautiful country, and it's a lovely city to be able to operate an event in.
[39:44] SPEAKER_01: Um, that's what most people naturally think is what people are focused on.
[39:48] SPEAKER_01: The more interesting part where it comes into triathlon, and this is very much related to Serge's investment in the PTO, is that Middle Eastern governments in particular, and there are others as well, in Asia as well, a little bit in the in in Europe, but less so, frankly, compared to the the newer, newer economies, are focused on ways that they can inspire their population to be fit and healthy.
[40:09] SPEAKER_01: And triathlon is just a fantastic sport for that.
[40:11] SPEAKER_01: And so that is why there is so much desire to have mass participation in triathlon, particularly in the Middle East, is because governments recognize that triathlon is hard, but break it down into swimming, cycling, running, you've got three of the largest participation sports in the world.
[40:25] SPEAKER_01: Um, and providing an opportunity both to inspire and showcase to their local populations that you can do this, and then an actual like ability to go and do it is incredibly important, and that's why they're investing the the level that they are.
[40:37] SPEAKER_01: So um, not unique to to the PTO, but certainly that's our background for why you're seeing more races in in the Middle East and and indeed Asia.
[40:45] SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of people asking.
[40:46] SPEAKER_00: So like okay, there's the climate factor, but at the end of the day, what you are saying, just to be clear, is that the money is good and you need money, and so we can't not afford to race in the in the Middle East, even if it might not be the perfect location for our grand final, the money by far outweighs that and makes it the right location.
[41:07] SPEAKER_00: Is just just so I'm clear, that is what you're saying, basically.
[41:10] SPEAKER_01: I always say it's not just the money, it's the it's building it into like how you put on an event.
[41:14] SPEAKER_01: So let's so let's let's take a step back and go a little bit more deeper if you like, right?
[41:17] SPEAKER_01: So for us to deliver an event, it's not just about the financial support we get, it's also about the operational support that we get from a city, right?
[41:23] SPEAKER_01: So being able to get the permits, the road closures, the support that we need, tapping into local sponsors, all of this plays into the mix.
[41:31] SPEAKER_01: It's not just about the hosting fee that we might be given by a government.
[41:34] SPEAKER_01: And in that, because the Middle Eastern governments are aligned around participation sports in general, they're giving more support to stakeholders like us, right?
[41:43] SPEAKER_01: So it is not as simple.
[41:44] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wish it was, frankly, as simple as just the check that you can get.
[41:47] SPEAKER_01: Um, it's because we could get paid all the money in the world, but if we couldn't deliver a safe race or get the permits exposure, blah, blah, blah, blah, it wouldn't be possible, right?
[41:55] SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of that's what really factors it in.
[41:57] SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is more whether it's a case of they are it's sort of younger demographics, younger economies, and so they're focused on it more than say I'll use my words carefully, European and North American governments that aren't investing in sport and participation as much.
[42:12] SPEAKER_01: It's just that it's just a different economic model.
[42:14] SPEAKER_01: So it's not just about cash, it's about access and ability to go and do and create great things.
[42:19] SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you take Dubai as a good example, like Dubai is you may remember our event is part of this incredible initiative that they have in in Dubai, which is driven by the Crown Prince, and it's called the 30 by 30.
[42:30] SPEAKER_01: So it's 30 30 days of fitness of doing 30 minutes a day.
[42:33] SPEAKER_01: And um, I can't remember the actual statistics, but they have completely changed their population's attitude towards sport by this over the last 10 years, and they now have like the world's largest run that takes place, I think, two weeks before us.
[42:46] SPEAKER_01: It's like 250,000 people, and they shut down the biggest highway in Dubai, right?
[42:51] SPEAKER_01: So that's not about money at all, it's about access and priority and and basically making sure that you can deliver these things well.
[42:58] SPEAKER_01: So we get more of that than in the Middle East, but it's not exclusively that.
[43:03] SPEAKER_01: Like one of our best races, it's one we've been doing the longest, is in Singapore.
[43:08] SPEAKER_01: It takes place, as everyone knows by now, in the marina in Singapore, so bang in the middle of the finance uh finance district.
[43:14] SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm trying to think what a British equivalent would be or an American.
[43:18] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like doing a triathlon in Times Square, right?
[43:20] SPEAKER_01: Like it's just almost impossible to have those levels of road closures.
[43:23] SPEAKER_01: And the city and the government gets behind us and supports us and gives us the road closures and aren't going to be more important than any hosting fee we can get.
[43:30] SPEAKER_00: That's a great segue here into some conversation about athletes and and the racing in the T-100.
[43:36] SPEAKER_00: So we'll start there because you mentioned Singapore.
[43:39] SPEAKER_00: Early in the year, it was your first race, and athletes were contractually obligated to be at those races, as far as I'm aware.
[43:47] SPEAKER_00: However, not all athletes went, like Taylor Nib famously made the decision to not go and was there for uh not well, is fine's the right word.
[43:56] SPEAKER_00: She she lost a lot of money for that decision.
[43:58] SPEAKER_01: She accepted a penalty.
[44:00] SPEAKER_01: Is probably the phrase I should.
[44:01] SPEAKER_00: She expected a large penalty for that.
[44:03] SPEAKER_00: Uh what was your opinion of that?
[44:06] SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's important that all athletes are at the first race of the year?
[44:10] SPEAKER_00: Were you disappointed by Taylor not being there?
[44:12] SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and what did you make of that entire situation?
[44:16] SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I don't think anyone's happy to give out a penalty.
[44:19] SPEAKER_01: Like if you are in life, I mean you're kind of a strange individual.
[44:21] SPEAKER_01: Um, but they are they are an important component of making things fair.
[44:27] SPEAKER_01: So when Taylor wasn't able to go to that race or chose not to go to that race, it doesn't matter why, um, and her colleagues who had committed did, then there needed to be some repercussions for that.
[44:37] SPEAKER_01: And we obviously discussed it with Taylor, and and so be it.
[44:39] SPEAKER_01: And there's no need to talk about it any any more than that.
[44:41] SPEAKER_01: I think it's important that the sport remains fair.
[44:44] SPEAKER_01: Um for us, we think that getting consistent, there's probably two two things that are really important is you need to have an element of consistency, right?
[44:52] SPEAKER_01: So that you it's not completely different race fields every single time because then you can't really build any narrative around the sport, but you also want to create jeopardy, right?
[45:00] SPEAKER_01: And it's a real trade-off.
[45:01] SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by jeopardy is not just knowing that if Taylor turns up, she wins every time, right?
[45:05] SPEAKER_01: That that's not good, or if he's a better comparable sport, right?
[45:08] SPEAKER_01: If Tiger Woods wins all the time, it actually becomes less interesting.
[45:11] SPEAKER_01: And you've seen that in Formula One for a while, as one of the many reasons that Formula One is doing so incredibly well at the moment is that jeopardy has been created in their racing.
[45:18] SPEAKER_01: Now, what I just described there, if you think about it, it's they are conflicting needs, right?
[45:24] SPEAKER_01: Because you want to have consistency of athletes all the time, but you don't want them to win all the time.
[45:28] SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so that's what we need to go and create as a league or as a tour.
[45:32] SPEAKER_01: Um, we need to have the courses and the climate and the conditions that we can ultimately create consistency to grow the sport and build the profiles, but we can create jeopardy and excitement in the racing.
[45:43] SPEAKER_01: And look, London, uh, let's everyone always remembers the last race, right?
[45:46] SPEAKER_01: But London was such a good example in the women's race of that jeopardy occurring, and so we're really thrilled by that.
[45:51] SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you number off the top of my head how many winners we've had this year, but it's like seven out of eight races or something like that.
[45:57] SPEAKER_01: It's been a different, different winner, right?
[45:58] SPEAKER_01: Of the different composition of the of the podiums.
[46:01] SPEAKER_01: And if you wind back a few years ago, that is not what people thought, right, would be happening.
[46:05] SPEAKER_01: And so those things I think are performing really, really well.
[46:08] SPEAKER_01: Are we, you know, happy with every component of athletes turning up or contracts and all the rest?
[46:15] SPEAKER_01: No, because we operate from a position of always being sort of healthily dissatisfied with the progress that we make.
[46:20] SPEAKER_01: We we hold a really, really high bar to ourselves, mainly because for triathlon to go mainstream, we don't have to compete with Iron Man, we don't have to compete with Super Tri.
[46:30] SPEAKER_01: We have to compete with the NBA and the NFL and the Premier League, right?
[46:33] SPEAKER_01: And so that's the standards we hold ourselves to internally and ultimately hold the sport to because that's what we need to do as it as it goes ahead.
[46:39] SPEAKER_00: Interesting point you make about the different winners.
[46:41] SPEAKER_00: Obviously, Hayden's won two races, but every other race, male and female, has been won by someone different, unless I'm mistaken.
[46:48] SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you've got a problem in Hayden there, unless you get Alex Yee to sign.
[46:52] SPEAKER_00: Did you uh did you offer Alex Ye a massive bag to race London on the weekend?
[46:58] SPEAKER_01: We spoke to Alex about early in the season, about when he was looking at his marathon.
[47:01] SPEAKER_01: We spoke to Alex's management about would London be an interesting race post-marathon.
[47:06] SPEAKER_01: And I think he considered it pretty, pretty hard.
[47:08] SPEAKER_01: And I hope we will see him at the T100 at some point in the future.
[47:11] SPEAKER_01: But obviously, as everyone knows, it didn't happen last weekend.
[47:14] SPEAKER_01: Um, we're looking forward to hosting him in two weeks' time for WTCS Friseus or WTCS French Riviera, I should say.
[47:21] SPEAKER_01: Um, and whether Hayden will pull off the double in that weekend, I think is being worked out between him and World Triathlon rather than me.
[47:27] SPEAKER_01: But uh, I think it's possible with the rules.
[47:29] SPEAKER_01: So we'll see whether physically that man, I mean, he seems to be doing just such incredible things at the moment.
[47:33] SPEAKER_01: Um, and long may that continue.
[47:35] SPEAKER_00: You said in 2023 on this podcast, actually, that athlete contracts would be made public.
[47:41] SPEAKER_00: And I said when, and you said it this year sometime.
[47:44] SPEAKER_00: It's two years later, and that still hasn't happened.
[47:47] SPEAKER_00: So uh do you reserve the right to change your mind on that one?
[47:50] SPEAKER_00: And is that never going to happen from now?
[47:52] SPEAKER_01: I I always reserve the right to change my mind, but I will explain in some of the context is that multiple athletes actually asked us not to.
[47:58] SPEAKER_01: They said, look, you know, we don't necessarily share what our sponsors are paying us between each other.
[48:02] SPEAKER_01: There are specifics here that we would rather not be public, and we totally respect that.
[48:06] SPEAKER_01: And when I was asked that question, I didn't consider that aspect.
[48:08] SPEAKER_01: So that's completely on me, right?
[48:10] SPEAKER_01: A contract is a two-way, obviously a two-way device.
[48:13] SPEAKER_01: And so um, having had that feedback, we decided, look, let's let's not move ahead and create more controversy by sharing it.
[48:19] SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the level of transparency we have on racing and who's in is enough.
[48:24] SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why we haven't done it yet.
[48:26] SPEAKER_01: You've got to respect the athletes, and that's ultimately what we're here to create, right?
[48:29] SPEAKER_01: As an athlete body, and we listen to them and we act accordingly.
[48:34] SPEAKER_00: I personally think that all triathletes or endurance athletes in general should be taking creatine daily.
[48:40] SPEAKER_00: However, not all creatines are created equal, and in the case of Pillar Performances creatine monohydrate, it features single origin creepure made in Germany, which is the purest form of creatine monohydrate available on the market.
[48:52] SPEAKER_00: And unlike most brands, it's informed sports certified.
[48:56] SPEAKER_00: So, as a triathlet, why should you be taking creatine daily?
[49:00] SPEAKER_00: Well, firstly, energy production.
[49:02] SPEAKER_00: Creatine helps replenish ATP, which is the body's primary energy source.
[49:07] SPEAKER_00: This means higher anaerobic capacity and better overall athletic performance.
[49:12] SPEAKER_00: Enhanced recovery is the second thing.
[49:14] SPEAKER_00: Creatine reduces muscle damage and inflammation while promoting faster glycogen replenishment.
[49:20] SPEAKER_00: This leads to quicker recovery between training sessions and races.
[49:23] SPEAKER_00: It's it's probably, in my opinion, the main reason why you should use it.
[49:27] SPEAKER_00: Just the in hugely enhanced recovery that it leads to.
[49:31] SPEAKER_00: And then thirdly, is the cognitive benefits.
[49:34] SPEAKER_00: Creatine supports brain function, reducing mental fatigue and improve focus throughout endurance events, but also just day-to-day in your life.
[49:41] SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to get up early and train and then go to work and then um look after your family and spend quality time with the people you care about, maybe even train a second time.
[49:50] SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just need to have the cognitive ability to do so.
[49:54] SPEAKER_00: And creatine definitely helps that.
[49:55] SPEAKER_00: So if you would like to try some creatine monohydrate for yourself, which I highly recommend you do, then head to pillarperformance.shop or for North American listeners, listeners, head to thefeed.com and enter the code TTH for 15% off all first purchases.
[50:10] SPEAKER_00: That's code TTH for 15% off all first purchases.
[50:15] SPEAKER_00: There's been uh again a bit of chatter about, and I it that's happened on this podcast, other various media outlets, it happens all the time.
[50:22] SPEAKER_00: And every time that I poll amongst um listeners, it does seem to be something that comes up again and again is that the T100 and the PTO models have changed, and that the first model is looked back on really fondly by fans where you had, you know, three or four opens, they were big races, a lot of prize money at those races, and now you've gone into a model that's more races, less money on any particular race.
[50:46] SPEAKER_00: Which model do you personally think is better as maybe a fan of the sport, and which one is better uh as a businessman in the sport?
[50:56] SPEAKER_01: Um, that's a very well-worded question on the contrast, right?
[50:59] SPEAKER_01: Because as a fan of the sport, you want to see the best athletes going head to head, often with Jeopardy, as I said, and caring about the outcome.
[51:10] SPEAKER_01: Um now, given that triathlon is a challenging sport to do, you can't race 20 times a year, racing less would infer that you would get that, but not racing so little as it used to be before the PTO existed.
[51:22] SPEAKER_01: And that's probably an important thing I'll put a pin in to come back to in a minute on how far the sport has come in these few years.
[51:28] SPEAKER_01: Now, that said, if you put your put the lens of businessmen on, to use your phrase, there isn't even close to a comparison, right?
[51:34] SPEAKER_01: Because for triathlon, as we've said, we have a very ambitious goal to take triathlon mainstream.
[51:39] SPEAKER_01: You know, we've talked about the Olympics, you haven't brought that up yet, but like we we we absolutely see a pathway that we would love to see T-100 in the Olympics.
[51:46] SPEAKER_01: And to do that, you have to make the sport bigger.
[51:49] SPEAKER_01: To make the sport bigger, you're gonna have to have more volume.
[51:51] SPEAKER_01: And you're not gonna do that before races a year.
[51:54] SPEAKER_01: You're just not, right?
[51:55] SPEAKER_01: You you might have if you know, even golf, right?
[51:57] SPEAKER_01: Golf would not exist if it was just the majors.
[51:59] SPEAKER_01: Golf exists because the PGA and the DP World Tour and everything is going all the way through the season, and then you get four or five massive moments that get cut through.
[52:07] SPEAKER_01: What I would love to see, I suppose, and this wasn't your question, but I could see it evolving, right?
[52:11] SPEAKER_01: If you look at what golf is, is that you have this consistency of lots, lots more races, and then four or five times it gets even bigger for some majors.
[52:20] SPEAKER_01: That I guess would be if I was a if purely answering as a fan, that would be the best.
[52:25] SPEAKER_01: And it might even be the best from a business perspective as well.
[52:27] SPEAKER_01: But in the short term, you've got to have more racing because we need to have more volume so we can get more TV exposure, that we can bring in more sponsors and ultimately have more scale.
[52:35] SPEAKER_01: Like we're talking to the majority of our time is spent talking to financial services and airlines and and hotel companies and the rest who are sponsoring the MBA or golf and then Formula One, and they're used to hundreds of millions of people tuning in across multiple, multiple events throughout the year.
[52:52] SPEAKER_01: Um tennis starts, I think they say the second week of January and it finishes the second week of December.
[52:56] SPEAKER_01: There's racing, or sorry, not racing, competing all the way through the year.
[52:59] SPEAKER_01: And unsurprisingly, they are able to commercialize it accordingly.
[53:02] SPEAKER_01: And from a commercial business perspective, the PTO needs to have a larger volume of events, as simple as that.
[53:09] SPEAKER_00: You touched on the Olympics.
[53:11] SPEAKER_00: You you boldly came out and said that you want long-horse triathlon to be in the Olympics and you want it to be T100.
[53:17] SPEAKER_00: Is it in any way realistic?
[53:19] SPEAKER_01: Um, so if it was just the PTO saying it, then I think everyone could dismiss it as just hype, right?
[53:25] SPEAKER_01: But the fact that it wasn't us, it was World Triathlon, that are obviously the body that our representative from the IOC for sp for triathlon is saying it, I think it's a different perspective.
[53:36] SPEAKER_01: And look, is it a long shot?
[53:38] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[53:39] SPEAKER_01: Would we all waste political capital talking about it if we didn't think there was a possibility?
[53:43] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[53:44] SPEAKER_01: That's how I would look at it.
[53:45] SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot that needs to happen for the T-100 to make it into the Olympics, but those are the kind of ambitious big projects that we like working on here.
[53:53] SPEAKER_01: And if you look at it from a different perspective, if you wound back, as I just said, so you've actually given me such a nice, nice natural segue, you wind back five years, people would think you were dreaming.
[54:02] SPEAKER_01: If you were to say that, hey, there's going to be a series of long-distance triathlons that will be shown live on linear TV around the world that will be paying millions and millions of dollars in prize money to athletes, people would think you were smoking something five years ago.
[54:15] SPEAKER_01: And that's what we've been able to create over the last few years, even with COVID in the middle.
[54:19] SPEAKER_01: And so having another ambitious goal, like getting T100 into the biggest um platform for sport.
[54:26] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wouldn't count us out, huh?
[54:28] SPEAKER_00: Alp Duez, you were there a few weeks ago, uh, along with some world triathlon representatives.
[54:33] SPEAKER_00: Is that happening next year?
[54:35] SPEAKER_01: Um, Alp Dowes is definitely happening next year.
[54:37] SPEAKER_01: I've seen it on the calendar.
[54:38] SPEAKER_01: They've got it on the You know what I mean.
[54:40] SPEAKER_00: A T100 doing it next year.
[54:42] SPEAKER_01: Whether a T100 race or a world triathlon race will take place there, I don't know, is the answer to the question.
[54:48] SPEAKER_01: Um, would we love to consider something like that?
[54:50] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, right?
[54:51] SPEAKER_01: It's a really iconic, beautiful race.
[54:52] SPEAKER_01: It's one of the reasons we went to see it.
[54:54] SPEAKER_01: Meet the incredible team that have put that on.
[54:56] SPEAKER_01: It's a family that has created that over the last 20 years and a family that is so plugged in, um, Cyril and his wife and his son and team, um into the into the local community, and they created an incredible event.
[55:09] SPEAKER_01: And so could there be some potential within you know the T100 or World Trath on?
[55:13] SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
[55:14] SPEAKER_01: One day.
[55:14] SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not necessarily going to happen overnight, it might be be some time away, but but let's see.
[55:18] SPEAKER_01: Look, we go to a lot of events.
[55:20] SPEAKER_01: I think also it's not to jump to the conclusion that just because the PTO turns up at something that it's gonna become part of the T100.
[55:25] SPEAKER_01: I mean, we um Scott DeRue was it was in uh was in Roth, right?
[55:30] SPEAKER_01: So was some of my team.
[55:31] SPEAKER_01: I've been to that multiple times before.
[55:33] SPEAKER_01: Um I go to Iron Man races every so often.
[55:35] SPEAKER_01: I don't think that means an Iron Man race is gonna be part of the T100.
[55:37] SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't infer too much into it, other than to say that we absolutely listen and we want to learn from other people that are doing this in the market, right?
[55:46] SPEAKER_01: And see what they do well and what we what that what we could do better and and consider that and you know having 21 switchbacks in some of our races would be pretty fun.
[55:54] SPEAKER_00: Athlete contracts, we touched on a little bit when it comes to whether you're going to make the amount of those contracts public.
[56:00] SPEAKER_00: What about just athlete contracts in general?
[56:03] SPEAKER_00: Are you viewing that model as successful or unsuccessful?
[56:06] SPEAKER_00: Are there any changes that need to be made with it?
[56:09] SPEAKER_00: Um are the 20 man and and female fit fields the right size, or do you think they need to be bigger going forward?
[56:15] SPEAKER_00: What has your view on that changed?
[56:17] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think all pros and cons to everything you just described.
[56:20] SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there are some elements of the contracts that have worked very well for the athletes and us, others that haven't.
[56:24] SPEAKER_01: Um, whether it's do you need to have contracts for all 20, should it just be for a few stars because you guarantee the narrative?
[56:31] SPEAKER_01: Um should the course be 20, sorry, not course, should the fields be 25 or 30, but the implications of that, um like the knock-on implications that people don't necessarily see, sort of the second order impact of the, you know, the road closure impacts um in particular, but also the racing narrative.
[56:46] SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think the broadcast gets improved by having 30 athletes versus 20.
[56:50] SPEAKER_01: Um, would it give more of a pathway for athletes to get in and race potentially?
[56:55] SPEAKER_01: And that you know becomes important when you think about things like the Olympic Games, but the core product doesn't necessarily improve.
[57:01] SPEAKER_01: I mean, what we've done this year around you know, creating more wild cards, I think was an interesting move because it allows more people to come in equally.
[57:08] SPEAKER_01: Some people don't like it because they say, well, it just makes the races crowded and they get they get um announced late.
[57:14] SPEAKER_01: So I think pros and cons across the board.
[57:16] SPEAKER_01: And one thing that hopefully everyone has always seen with us is that we don't sort of just like take the stuff on the chin.
[57:22] SPEAKER_01: We we listen, we consider, we've been very focused on our own sort of investment round for the last 12 months.
[57:28] SPEAKER_01: But the next next phase is really sort of taking the learnings of the la the first and second year of the T100 and applying it so that the next three or four years improve and ultimately you know help us achieve some of these ambitions of these very, very high and lofty goals that we have.
[57:41] SPEAKER_00: I thought London was a great race, but I think to me it it really showed what the main issue with broadcast the T100 is having, and that's the lack of cameras.
[57:52] SPEAKER_00: You obviously had the quad box on YouTube as an option for viewers to watch, and that was basically just two or at most three kind of different things at any one time.
[58:03] SPEAKER_00: You just don't have enough cameras out on the course to be able to show the race.
[58:06] SPEAKER_00: So you have, you know, 32 to 40 athletes on the course at any given time, and you can only see it it's usually about four or five, or maybe six athletes if you've got a big group out in front at any one time.
[58:19] SPEAKER_00: What needs to be done so that you can have, say, 10 or 20 cameras out on course so that the broadcast can constantly change between the athletes and therefore create lots of different narratives within the races and make the racing more exciting for everyone.
[58:34] SPEAKER_01: So I start by saying um I'm really proud of our broadcast team and the way it's developed, especially over the last 18 months.
[58:40] SPEAKER_01: Like I think we've got to the point where this is really working, right?
[58:42] SPEAKER_01: People aren't um in the past we had technical issues, there were tons of different things that were going wrong, whether it's for the data or the graphics, the rest.
[58:49] SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the team have begun to get their groove, and that just happens with practice, frankly, right?
[58:53] SPEAKER_01: Is one of the things we've we've talked about in the past.
[58:55] SPEAKER_01: I think I've probably said this on the podcast is the and you know Martin personally, our head of broadcast, you know, used used to run rugby for Sky as well as Formula One.
[59:02] SPEAKER_01: And you take rugby, you've got you know 50, 60 times a year when you can go and test something and change it.
[59:06] SPEAKER_01: And when we're doing four or five races or eight or nine races, you just don't get that benefit.
[59:10] SPEAKER_01: Now, luckily with time, you do.
[59:12] SPEAKER_01: So 18 months in, team have delivered enough events that beginning to get the groove, excuse the phrase.
[59:17] SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think we're seeing that in the product.
[59:19] SPEAKER_01: Now, that said, would they like more cameras?
[59:21] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
[59:22] SPEAKER_01: I don't think any sport would say no to that.
[59:23] SPEAKER_01: Um, I dare to imagine how many cameras Formula One has now across whether it's, you know, across across how they do things.
[59:30] SPEAKER_01: Um and would we like to have more in the not too distant future?
[59:33] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[59:33] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it's one of the things we need to look at.
[59:35] SPEAKER_01: Um, as it becomes more this is where technology really plays in because it's not a sport that is sort of naturally as easy to broadcast with fixed cameras like Formula One or like tennis.
[59:46] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I dream of the scenario where you can plug in a couple of static cameras in the tennis and off you go.
[59:51] SPEAKER_01: Um, in contrast with Trathlon, especially across the three different disciplines, it just becomes a lot more technically challenging.
[59:56] SPEAKER_01: But luckily, that technology is improving dramatically.
[59:59] SPEAKER_01: Um, there are some incredible innovations recently, um, even on things like uh I don't want to say iPhone, but like not far-off iPhone level cameras that are getting to broadcast quality, and that uh provides some interesting opportunities.
[1:00:12] SPEAKER_01: And so um I guess I'm agreeing with you whilst also stating I think that it's getting to a good spot where we'd like more, yes, and we've got to figure out how we can how we can make that economical and ultimately fit into the into the structure we have.
[1:00:24] SPEAKER_00: 126 cameras on F1 races, by the way.
[1:00:27] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
[1:00:28] SPEAKER_00: I know that because a drive to survive a lot, a lot more than the two that we have.
[1:00:33] SPEAKER_01: Well, we have more than two, but um it tends to be sort of eight or nine depending on the different structures.
[1:00:37] SPEAKER_01: Um, but what you're naturally linking towards is you're thinking with respect relatively myopically about on the bike, this is the this is when you only see a few.
[1:00:46] SPEAKER_01: But of course, we've had the swim, we've had different cameras at different points.
[1:00:48] SPEAKER_01: So it's not that um we might only have a couple of camera views available at a certain point, but the infrastructure is a bit more than that.
[1:00:55] SPEAKER_01: I mean, the quad view is an interesting one that you know there's you've got to basically what we need to do economically, and that's really importantly, is have a product that we can both appeal to the mainstream for our linear product, um, by them by that I mean our broadcast partners, but then also maybe having something that more appeals to sort of the ultra fan.
[1:01:14] SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where quads come in, quad screens come in, or I frankly I I I hate the phrase.
[1:01:19] SPEAKER_01: I mean, split screen is probably a better phrase to use because it's not always going to be quad-based.
[1:01:23] SPEAKER_01: Um, and then data and and live graphics, and that's something that we see a lot of potential in, and we've made a massive amount of progress on.
[1:01:29] SPEAKER_01: The you end up kind of with two different broadcast products.
[1:01:32] SPEAKER_01: You've got your linear product for the masses, and then your geeky product for the for the for the fans or the super fans.
[1:01:39] SPEAKER_00: Now, just a few more questions to finish, but not that that not that many more difficult ones.
[1:01:43] SPEAKER_00: This is probably the most difficult one.
[1:01:45] SPEAKER_00: How is your success as CEO of the T100 measured?
[1:01:49] SPEAKER_00: And do you actually answer to anyone?
[1:01:51] SPEAKER_00: Like the decisions that you make or mistakes that you make, do they do they actually have any potential consequences, or are you the big dog and everyone answers to you?
[1:02:00] SPEAKER_01: Well, I I definitely answer to my wife.
[1:02:01] SPEAKER_01: She's the big dog at home in in every way, um, especially with three little children running around.
[1:02:07] SPEAKER_01: But um, no, it's a bit more serious.
[1:02:09] SPEAKER_01: Um, so I answer to two different, well, three different groups, really, right?
[1:02:13] SPEAKER_01: So there is the I ultimately from a reporting structure, we have a chairman called Chris Commode, who I think you may have briefly met, um, who came from tennis, he's the CEO, was the CEO of the ATP.
[1:02:23] SPEAKER_01: He's the chairman who I ultimately report to from a structure, and he's the chairman of the board, is the is the other two stakeholders that we report into, which is the athlete board and then the um the investment board.
[1:02:33] SPEAKER_01: And so certainly, although I might have to make a lot of decisions along with several of my colleagues, we're very much accountable, and we're accountable now to some new investors that come along.
[1:02:43] SPEAKER_01: The phrase I use with the team often is that um fundraising is not an outcome, it's an obligation, right?
[1:02:50] SPEAKER_01: So people shouldn't actually necessarily success uh sorry um celebrate a fundraise because okay, it's a milestone to go through, but it's not an outcome in itself, right?
[1:02:58] SPEAKER_01: All it means is that you've been given the means to an end and an obligation to go and do something.
[1:03:03] SPEAKER_01: And so we have a fantastic board of very, very experienced sporting and investment professionals that are now very focused on triathlon and the PTO and taking this mainstream, and it's a wonderful position for the sport to be in.
[1:03:16] SPEAKER_01: And again, if you rewind back five years to think that we would have this, and indeed the impact of let's call it what it is, the IMAN Pro Series would not exist if the T100 hadn't been started, right?
[1:03:26] SPEAKER_01: And so the sport is in a such a great place.
[1:03:29] SPEAKER_01: Is it as good as we want it to be?
[1:03:30] SPEAKER_01: Are we you know making mistakes more often than I'd like?
[1:03:34] SPEAKER_01: Definitely, but I think we're very happy, we should be very happy at the sporting level.
[1:03:38] SPEAKER_01: I don't mean that of the PTO, like as fans of the sport should be happy where the sport is and should be excited about where it's going.
[1:03:44] SPEAKER_00: And for you personally, in your role as CEO for maybe the last 12 months or six months, whatever period you want to put on it.
[1:03:51] SPEAKER_00: Yep.
[1:03:51] SPEAKER_00: What's been your probably biggest what's your what's been your biggest strength and what's been your biggest weakness as the CEO of the T100?
[1:04:00] SPEAKER_01: That is a good question.
[1:04:02] SPEAKER_01: Um at a personal level, uh they're probably like I don't want to be too glib in my answer, but like they're linked to the same thing.
[1:04:08] SPEAKER_01: I think the strength is ultimately that we've managed to get to the point that we are in a really great position to invest in the future, right?
[1:04:16] SPEAKER_01: So the fact that, as I said, we're well capitalized, we have we've got this fantastic team that really knows how to deliver great events.
[1:04:23] SPEAKER_01: We have a number of fantastic partners around the world that are both supporting us financially if they're sponsors or um operationally if they're delivery partners, and we have an athlete structure now with a product that really works, right, on broadcast TV.
[1:04:36] SPEAKER_01: So that's an amazing situation to sort of be in to now move forward.
[1:04:40] SPEAKER_01: Where the weakness comes is that um we got really stretched to coming here, right?
[1:04:45] SPEAKER_01: So between the fundraiser being delayed and all that impact that had and major sponsor not coming through, the stress that put under the that put the organization on um was huge and ultimately onto the sport.
[1:04:56] SPEAKER_01: Um and we don't take that line down, right?
[1:04:59] SPEAKER_01: It's neither something I don't want to go through again or put on other people.
[1:05:02] SPEAKER_01: We've survived it and we're ready to come through the other end, which we're pretty excited about.
[1:05:06] SPEAKER_01: But it's certainly been a tough few months, and it's that's been shown in some of the um mistakes or the unfortunate in uh events is I think the better phrase you have for early in the earlier in the podcast.
[1:05:17] SPEAKER_01: Um but we're through that now and ready, I guess.
[1:05:20] SPEAKER_01: If I use an American phrase, right, we're ready to play offense instead of defense, which is exciting.
[1:05:25] SPEAKER_00: And then you touched on Chris Commode, who's the chairman, you're the CEO.
[1:05:30] SPEAKER_00: When it comes to these decisions, whether it's you know the struggles that you've been going through and now, like you just said, the offense that you're about to go on, who is it that is actually making the decisions about where you're going to go forward?
[1:05:43] SPEAKER_00: It's you two, but who else are actually making all the key decisions around races and athletes and contracts and TV?
[1:05:50] SPEAKER_00: Who are who are the core group?
[1:05:52] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, it's it's certainly not.
[1:05:54] SPEAKER_01: Please don't for the second think that it's me and Chris because that would not be a good thing.
[1:05:58] SPEAKER_01: Trust me to have.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_01: Me and a and a tennis guy, that would not be good, right?
[1:06:02] SPEAKER_01: Like the the tennis guy, I don't say that as a joke, it's actually really helpful to have someone who's from outside of the sport because you get a very different perspective.
[1:06:09] SPEAKER_01: But no, look, there's a there's a um we are now 33 people, I think 34 people within the PTO.
[1:06:15] SPEAKER_01: If you then expand it out to our extra partners, you get a lot bigger, obviously, with you know, folks like the London Marathon um events group that delivered a London with us last last week.
[1:06:24] SPEAKER_01: They obviously have some incredible executives that we can bounce ideas off and plan road closures and things like that.
[1:06:29] SPEAKER_01: But at the core, suppose if I sort of boil it down, there's sort of a senior team of people at the PTO that we have our um I mean committee is a big word for it, but like management meetings on what are the decisions we need to make, and then going out to various different stakeholders to to then stress those questions and validate them.
[1:06:46] SPEAKER_01: So if we use an example, um we had all of the athlete board fly in last week um to London in advance of the event, and we had a very long agenda.
[1:06:55] SPEAKER_01: I think we had like a five-hour meeting of the various different things that we're thinking about, and then we then take it to the athlete board for their input and um in some cases their decision, because there are some things we very much want to put in the hands of the athletes.
[1:07:06] SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna put things like a row closure um in a meeting like that, but decisions around compensation and structures and rankings and qualifications and rules.
[1:07:15] SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't want to make those decisions in isolation.
[1:07:17] SPEAKER_01: That should be the athletes, and so that's one of the very key things the athlete board does.
[1:07:21] SPEAKER_01: So both the the athlete board, which is elected, and then the um senior team of the PTO, whether that's across marketing, commercial, content, broadcast, operations, everyone knows Patrick or they've got to know Patrick, as I said.
[1:07:35] SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then of course finance, right?
[1:07:36] SPEAKER_01: Of the Mark, our CFO, who's been an incredible partner to get these investors on board and supporting us into the next journey.
[1:07:43] SPEAKER_01: So it uh it takes a village, as they say, and um, we're very happy or very lucky that we've got a very sophisticated bunch of people that are very motivated on taking triathlon way, way, way further than the last five years.
[1:07:55] SPEAKER_01: And I'd already say, as I've said a few times, the last five years has been pretty good.
[1:07:58] SPEAKER_00: Last two questions, Sam.
[1:08:00] SPEAKER_00: Uh, the triathlon hour alternative stream that's gonna start from France.
[1:08:04] SPEAKER_00: Are you excited about it?
[1:08:05] SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna watch that instead of the main broadcast uh whatever you call it, main broadcast channel?
[1:08:10] SPEAKER_01: I am excited about it, and I'll probably watch both at some point, whether they'll be at the same time.
[1:08:14] SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
[1:08:14] SPEAKER_01: We'll have to figure that out.
[1:08:15] SPEAKER_01: Um, please don't swear too much.
[1:08:17] SPEAKER_01: Um, but other than that, uh look, I think it's one of those things where this is a uh as you know, because you're doing it with us, this is a trend that is occurring massively in sport, right?
[1:08:27] SPEAKER_01: And like even the NFL have done this for multiple years where they've had alternative streams with different talent.
[1:08:32] SPEAKER_01: I'm not necessarily putting you quite in the category of Peyton Manning, but I guess we can have that aspiration.
[1:08:39] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe not as uh rich as Peyton Manning.
[1:08:41] SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh and on that, uh a second a secondary question to that.
[1:08:45] SPEAKER_00: How have you judged Jan Fredino's role as commentator?
[1:08:48] SPEAKER_00: Do you think he's a better commentator than he was athlete?
[1:08:51] SPEAKER_01: Oh Jan seems to like anything he touches turns to Goldhurt, and I think that's a nice image to have and one that he should long continue.
[1:08:57] SPEAKER_01: So, do I think he's a better commentator than an athlete?
[1:09:00] SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's too early to tell because he's what a couple of years into this, whereas he had 20, 25 years of racing and achieved incredible success.
[1:09:08] SPEAKER_01: But maybe in 25 years time we can answer that question and say, has he has triathlon become like BBC one for four hours and Yarn's the voice?
[1:09:17] SPEAKER_01: Um, then one could probably say he'd be uh that the commentating was better than the racing, but um time will tell.
[1:09:23] SPEAKER_01: It's too early.
[1:09:24] SPEAKER_00: There are rumors that he wants in on the triathlon our alternative stream in 2026 ahead of the main broadcast as well.
[1:09:30] SPEAKER_00: Just warning, yeah.
[1:09:31] SPEAKER_01: Wow, the bidding rates are gonna get strong.
[1:09:33] SPEAKER_01: There you go.
[1:09:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know if I can afford Yarn.
[1:09:36] SPEAKER_00: Uh and last question, Sam.
[1:09:37] SPEAKER_00: It's a weird one, but it's uh it's something I've been thinking about lately.
[1:09:41] SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite song?
[1:09:43] SPEAKER_00: If you could only have one song for the rest of your life to go out and go for a run with or while you're out riding your bike, what would it be?
[1:09:50] SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah, that is a so yeah, interesting.
[1:09:54] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just changes all the time, right?
[1:09:56] SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately.
[1:09:56] SPEAKER_01: So you'd be like what my favorite song is now.
[1:09:59] SPEAKER_01: So, as an example, and I'll go off on a slight slight tangent because it just may be amusing to some people.
[1:10:04] SPEAKER_01: Um, when we were in fact, probably won't be amusing to anyone but you perhaps.
[1:10:07] SPEAKER_01: When I was a long time ago, a very average athlete myself.
[1:10:11] SPEAKER_01: You were pretty good in Sato's squad, he used to play Midnight Oil all the time, all the time, and so beds are burning, all things like that.
[1:10:18] SPEAKER_01: And when I went to Aldoers, the last time previously I had been was 20 years ago with with Brett, and so I played that music driving up the hill, and I was you know transported back to 25 years was a lot of fun.
[1:10:28] SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's some music, but I wouldn't say necessarily listening to Australian would be my favourite forever.
[1:10:33] SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's probably the one that springs to mind right now, at least, and it's obviously relevant from a triathlon perspective.
[1:10:38] SPEAKER_01: Music that inspires and gets you going.
[1:10:39] SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say an Australian band.
[1:10:41] SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have picked that for me.
[1:10:42] SPEAKER_00: Inner bloom by Rufus by far, another Australian band.
[1:10:45] SPEAKER_00: So we're both we're both picking Australian bands.
[1:10:48] SPEAKER_00: Nice way to finish it up.
[1:10:50] SPEAKER_00: All right, mate.
[1:10:51] SPEAKER_00: Uh, thanks for coming on and doing this.
[1:10:52] SPEAKER_00: You haven't been doing any media recently, so I uh I appreciate you coming on, and I appreciate that uh it felt like you were pretty transparent and honest, at least to me.
[1:11:01] SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if everyone felt that way, but I know they're pretty tough questions, and that the the PTO and the T100 have been going through it a bit recently and and there's been uh a few a few difficulties, but uh hopefully what you're saying is true and that you do have the future, at least for a few years, kind of set in stone and you're excited to to go about that and create some change and and things just grow and get bigger and bigger.
[1:11:23] SPEAKER_00: That I think that's that's what everyone wants for the sport.
[1:11:26] SPEAKER_00: So thank you, mate.
[1:11:27] SPEAKER_00: Uh good luck with it all, and I'm sure we'll chat again soon at some time.
[1:11:30] SPEAKER_00: Maybe even get you on the alternative stream at some point.
[1:11:33] SPEAKER_01: Maybe, yeah.
[1:11:33] SPEAKER_01: I could I reckon I could be a guest commentator.
[1:11:35] SPEAKER_01: It's been a while since I did proper commentary and commentary, I should say, but it was certainly something I enjoyed doing back in the day.
[1:11:40] SPEAKER_01: And look, yeah, uh as I've said a couple of times, I think it's really important to step back sometimes and go, look, even with the challenges, where we are five years in as a sport is so much better than where it was before.
[1:11:51] SPEAKER_01: And now we have this unbelievable opportunity with the team and the financing and the structure and the athletes to really take triathlon to another level.
[1:11:59] SPEAKER_01: And so um, I'm as excited as I've ever been.
[1:12:02] SPEAKER_01: We have had to be a little bit heads down for a little while.
[1:12:05] SPEAKER_01: This is the start of us being a little bit more heads up.
[1:12:07] SPEAKER_01: Um, and look forward to having more of these conversations.
[1:12:10] SPEAKER_00: Thanks, mate.
[1:12:10] SPEAKER_00: Good luck.

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