# Monday’s Triathlon Hour - Full Show - August 18th

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 18 Aug 2025, 1 h 11 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698039-monday-s-triathlon-hour-full-show-august-18th.mp3

The Triathlon Hour Hotseat opens up today’s podcast where the only rule is you have to give your honest answer to the questions asked. Some of those questions are about Collin Chartier & Tomas Rodriguez’s potential imminent return to racing, who has the most annoying Instagram of any pro triathlete, is triathlon too soft, has there been a softening of our stance on Ironman, Jack’s real thoughts on Scott Derue & Andrew Messick, who is Appo attracted to, why has Jack really not been on the T100 broadcast, what’s the worst thing about living in the Boulder triathlon bubble, why did Lucy Charles Barclay block Jack on Instagram, is commenting on triathlete’s body weight fair game and lots more. We then do another edition of “who is under pressure” in the triathlon world, have some training discussion and pick which 3 triathletes we would all pick to race for our lives over the Ironman distance. Lever: Use the code TTH for 20% off your Lever system Lever

## Transcript

[0:19] SPEAKER_00: Yes, we are back for another episode of the Trithon Hour.
[0:22] SPEAKER_00: I'm Jack Kelly, and as always, I'm joined by the 19 time Iron Man or Iron Man 70.3 champion, Sam Appleton.
[0:29] SPEAKER_00: Apo, welcome.
[0:30] SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Jack.
[0:31] SPEAKER_02: Is it 19?
[0:32] SPEAKER_02: Is it?
[0:33] SPEAKER_02: Got to get one more before I retire, mate.
[0:35] SPEAKER_02: I think.
[0:35] SPEAKER_00: Well, you've got two from two this year.
[0:37] SPEAKER_00: What's the next race?
[0:38] SPEAKER_02: Santa Cruz.
[0:39] SPEAKER_02: What's that, three weeks?
[0:40] SPEAKER_02: So maybe.
[0:42] SPEAKER_02: Maybe I can snatch that 20th and uh sail off into the sunset, mate.
[0:45] SPEAKER_02: We'll see.
[0:46] SPEAKER_00: Well, you'd have to beat Barry Clare for that to happen, so seems unlikely.
[0:49] SPEAKER_00: And of course, we are also joined by Sam Long's current swim coach, who's already produced probably a career best swim from him, a man with some of the strongest opinions in Trithlon and a professional tribe himself, Greg Harper.
[1:02] SPEAKER_00: Greg, it's good to be back for another week.
[1:03] SPEAKER_03: It's always good to be on the show and alongside such a legend like Sam Appleton, but you know, he's cherry-picking all these races at the end of his career to try to get the win.
[1:11] SPEAKER_03: So it'd be nice to see him show up to a big race and win, but you know, that's probably unlikely at this point.
[1:18] SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
[1:20] SPEAKER_00: He's always won big races like 70.3 Vineman or 70.3 Port Mac.
[1:28] SPEAKER_02: No, I've never won Port Mac.
[1:29] SPEAKER_02: Boulder's the mecca of Triflon, Greg.
[1:31] SPEAKER_03: Come on.
[1:32] SPEAKER_03: Alright, so usually the boys give me the last segment on the show to come on and be controversial and stir the pot.
[1:41] SPEAKER_03: And things have been going so well with me with Contender Pretender, the show's best segment of all time.
[1:47] SPEAKER_03: And last week's You Have to Pick One.
[1:49] SPEAKER_03: So this week I've been given the reins, and I'm going to be starting the show.
[1:54] SPEAKER_03: I thought I'd bring something special to the table, and it's called the Triathlon Hour Hot Seat.
[2:01] SPEAKER_03: I'm going to put Jack and Apo on this hot seat.
[2:04] SPEAKER_03: The rules are simple.
[2:06] SPEAKER_03: Whatever you are asked while you're sitting on the hot seat, you must answer, and you must answer truthfully.
[2:12] SPEAKER_03: This is the triathlon hour.
[2:14] SPEAKER_03: We don't bitch like other podcasts.
[2:17] SPEAKER_03: We say what we think.
[2:19] SPEAKER_03: We pull no punches.
[2:21] SPEAKER_03: So, Jack and Apo, don't treat of all of us listening like we're dumb and can't tell when you're sitting on the fence or telling us a 50% truth.
[2:30] SPEAKER_03: I'll be asking Jack a question first, and then I'll go to you, Apo, and we'll go back and forth until all the questions are answered.
[2:38] SPEAKER_03: Jack, you're up first.
[2:41] SPEAKER_03: Let's go.
[2:43] SPEAKER_03: Do you really think that Colin Chartier doped completely alone with no outside help, like he said?
[2:49] SPEAKER_00: Righto, okay.
[2:50] SPEAKER_00: So the first uh question of the hot seat could already get a suit if Colin happens to be listening.
[2:55] SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I think he probably didn't dope alone.
[2:58] SPEAKER_00: I think it kind of it just kind of doesn't make sense to me that he would be sitting there on his laptop at home in bed and order some EPO to his house.
[3:06] SPEAKER_00: Maybe he did, but I don't think so.
[3:10] SPEAKER_00: He was away on training camps.
[3:11] SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, if I ha if it was gun to my head, no, I I don't think he did it alone.
[3:20] SPEAKER_03: Apo, do you think you are the best long horse triathlete from Australia?
[3:27] SPEAKER_02: Is this um current or of all time?
[3:31] SPEAKER_02: Your choice.
[3:32] SPEAKER_02: Well, definitely not of all time.
[3:33] SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's there's been a pretty long history of winners in Kona.
[3:37] SPEAKER_02: I think currently, still probably not either.
[3:40] SPEAKER_02: You know, Cam Worth has he's been top ten at Kona multiple times.
[3:44] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, maybe over the 70.3 distance currently, but um definitely not over Iron Man.
[3:49] SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of people.
[3:51] SPEAKER_02: Uh well, Cam for one, and then yeah, a lot of history, historical wins from Australia, Pete Jacobs, Maca, Crowy, um, Welshy.
[4:01] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not even close, mate.
[4:05] SPEAKER_03: Jack, Colin Chartier's three-year doping ban ends at the start of next year.
[4:10] SPEAKER_03: So it's less than six months away at this point.
[4:13] SPEAKER_03: Do you think he should be welcome back to racing?
[4:16] SPEAKER_00: Oh, uh probably not, but what can you do about it?
[4:21] SPEAKER_00: Like, if he served his ban and he wants to come back, then he's gonna come back, isn't he?
[4:26] SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't like it.
[4:28] SPEAKER_00: I personally wish that doping bands were longer.
[4:30] SPEAKER_00: I think to completely deincentivise doping, you've probably got to make an eight to ten years, something like that.
[4:36] SPEAKER_00: If not lifetime bands, that would probably be my preference.
[4:39] SPEAKER_00: Um so welcomed back.
[4:42] SPEAKER_00: Like, no, you you make your decision.
[4:44] SPEAKER_00: If you want to go to a race and tell him he's a dickhead while he's racing, go for it.
[4:48] SPEAKER_00: Um, because I personally don't think anyone who's doped should be allowed back into the sport.
[4:52] SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like I said, what can you do about it if he does decide to come back?
[4:57] SPEAKER_03: Apo, you previously took a Bahrain 13 sponsorship.
[5:01] SPEAKER_03: Do you think that pros need to consider the ethical implications of that and say no?
[5:06] SPEAKER_03: Or in a sport in triathlon where money is hard to make, it's simply a case of taking money where you can get it, regardless of the moral gray area that may come with it.
[5:16] SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that is tricky.
[5:18] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I took I think I was 24 at the time.
[5:21] SPEAKER_02: I was on the original Bahrain 13, and I think um, you know, I was young and didn't know anything about it, just saw the dollar signs and uh pretty much said, where do I sign?
[5:31] SPEAKER_02: And then I think, you know, after we all signed, I think there was a lot of us taken off guard a little bit by yeah, the ethical implications of this, and that all kind of came out in that first year of the team being formed.
[5:45] SPEAKER_02: And um, I mean it's tricky, you know, like Trithon doesn't have a lot of money in it.
[5:50] SPEAKER_02: I don't begrudge anyone for taking uh Bahrain 13 sponsorship.
[5:54] SPEAKER_02: I know, you know, money isn't coming from tons of sources, and I think athletes need to put their financial futures, you know, um, first sometimes.
[6:05] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I don't know if I would take a Bahrain deal now, now, you know, ten years on and knowing what I know, but I definitely don't begrudge anyone for taking the money.
[6:17] SPEAKER_02: That's a bit of a fence-sitting uh one, but that's how I feel.
[6:21] SPEAKER_00: Well, if you were offered the sponsorship tomorrow, Apo, would you take it?
[6:24] SPEAKER_02: Um I mean it would depend on uh I'd ha I'd struggle with it a lot, and probably not unless it's so hard to say, you know, like I'm providing for my family, I've got a mortgage to pay and things like that.
[6:41] SPEAKER_02: If if the if the money was a lot, then I'd like to say I wouldn't take it, but you know, sometimes you if if the money's there, like money talks, right?
[6:51] SPEAKER_02: So uh it would be a tough one, and I'd probably lose a lot of sleep over it.
[6:56] SPEAKER_03: So if the money's right, Apo has no moral authority and uh standards.
[7:02] SPEAKER_03: Okay, good to hear.
[7:03] SPEAKER_03: Um a hundred grand, I reckon.
[7:06] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[7:07] SPEAKER_03: Okay, Jack, do you feel the same way about Tomas Rodriguez as you do Colin Chartier returning to racing?
[7:14] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, what you look like, what sex you are.
[7:19] SPEAKER_00: Um a dope is a doper in my mind, so yeah, I feel exactly the same about them returning to racing.
[7:24] SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't rather see Colin return or or Thomas.
[7:27] SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be more pissed off at one of them or the other.
[7:29] SPEAKER_00: Although I do feel like Thomas Rodriguez is being a little bit more of a dick about it on his social media.
[7:35] SPEAKER_00: Like I kind of feel like Thomas is rubbing it in your face a little bit that he's going to come back to racing, which is annoying.
[7:42] SPEAKER_00: And Colin didn't do that.
[7:43] SPEAKER_00: Like, Colin went away and became a Buddhist six times and um is now a real estate agent and he's a breathwork specialist.
[7:50] SPEAKER_00: So I feel like Colin has really taken a different direction to Thomas Rodriguez, who just like posts videos of himself like just smashing it on a treadmill looking as fit as ever.
[7:58] SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, personally, that annoys me a little bit, but in regards to you know Thomas himself and who he is, and Colin himself and who he is, and whether they should both return to racing or not, I feel the same about him.
[8:10] SPEAKER_00: I I I I wish their bands were longer so that they couldn't return.
[8:13] SPEAKER_00: That's uh yeah.
[8:14] SPEAKER_03: Well, Tomas so mainstream innocent, so I mean, whatever happened with Colin, he came out and admitted it.
[8:20] SPEAKER_03: So we gotta give him at least one little point of street cred for that.
[8:24] SPEAKER_03: Uh Apo, what pro triathlete do you think has the most annoying or over-the-top Instagram?
[8:32] SPEAKER_02: Ari Clare.
[8:35] SPEAKER_02: If I see another ad for couple.com in my fucking Instagram feed, I'm gonna throw my phone across the room.
[8:43] SPEAKER_02: If I hear those mid fucking beats that he thinks that he's like uh Armin Van Buren or whatever, stop it.
[8:54] SPEAKER_02: Ari, stop it.
[8:58] SPEAKER_03: Uh Jack, are three whereabouts failures a product of a broken system or incredibly suspect?
[9:07] SPEAKER_00: Uh there's suspect for sure.
[9:10] SPEAKER_00: Um just think about how many clean athletes have managed to deal with the whereabouts, even though it's like a kind of annoying system that you have to fill out where you are at all times.
[9:21] SPEAKER_00: If you if you get one warning, that's a problem.
[9:23] SPEAKER_00: You probably should start, you know, sorting it out.
[9:25] SPEAKER_00: If you get two and you still manage to have three failures, you're either really, really, really lazy and don't care about your career, or you've got something to hide.
[9:38] SPEAKER_00: I would say that most people who are in that position care about their career enough to not have that third failure.
[9:45] SPEAKER_00: So when I see three whereabouts failures as a reason for um getting banned, I think it's incredibly suspect personally.
[9:54] SPEAKER_03: Apo.
[9:55] SPEAKER_03: Do you think this newer crop of world-class long horse triathletes under 30 years old?
[10:02] SPEAKER_03: You know, we've seen Iron Man champions at 25.
[10:05] SPEAKER_03: Um, do you think they're gonna make it into their late 30s and still be racing?
[10:09] SPEAKER_03: Like yourself?
[10:10] SPEAKER_03: How old are you now?
[10:11] SPEAKER_03: 50?
[10:14] SPEAKER_02: I'm 36.
[10:15] SPEAKER_02: No, what am I, 35?
[10:17] SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
[10:17] SPEAKER_02: I'm aging myself uh 35.
[10:21] SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't, I mean, the the typical path used to be like you raced short course until you were late 20s, early 30s, and you moved into Iron Man, then had, you know, five to eight years of Iron Man racing.
[10:34] SPEAKER_02: But now people are coming in, and you know, what was Sam Laidler?
[10:37] SPEAKER_02: Was he 23 or 24 when he won Nice?
[10:41] SPEAKER_02: Like it's it is very young, and I think I think we're still yet to see if you know, 15 years later, when he's 39, is he still going to be racing at a competitive level?
[10:51] SPEAKER_02: Is there going to be some sort of burnout or fatigue?
[10:53] SPEAKER_02: But I mean, people have shown that they can go into their late 30s, early 40s, like Jarn did it, Crowy did it, um, but they did also come across quite a bit later.
[11:03] SPEAKER_02: Um, like they did short course racing up until early 30s.
[11:07] SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, I think I think we're still yet to see the ramifications of what doing Iron Man in your early 20s does to a body, but you know, I think it's a hard sport, man.
[11:18] SPEAKER_02: It's hard on the body, and I think there is going to be some sort of burnout.
[11:22] SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll go more one more specific.
[11:24] SPEAKER_03: Will Sam Laido win an Iron Man title in his mid-30s or be close and racing at a high level?
[11:31] SPEAKER_03: No.
[11:33] SPEAKER_03: Jack.
[11:34] SPEAKER_03: Should TUEs, which is a therapeutic use exemption, be made public?
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: I'm getting a lot of doping questions from you, Greg.
[11:42] SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, of course they should.
[11:45] SPEAKER_00: I like I've I've thought about this.
[11:47] SPEAKER_00: What medical reason is there that you would be like so embarrassed or ashamed to have out there publicly or not one on the public record that it wouldn't be worth it to keep a sport cleaner?
[11:57] SPEAKER_00: Because therapeutic use exemptions are a way that a lot of people cheat.
[12:01] SPEAKER_00: Um it's just it's just a massive work around a system that shouldn't be there and shouldn't be available, I don't think.
[12:06] SPEAKER_00: Um and if you are gonna do it, I do think it should be public so that people can see it.
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do respect the privacy of athletes and think it is it is important that when privacy is needed, that kind of sporting governing bodies do allow you to to keep certain things private, but I just don't think TUEs are that.
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: I I just yeah, I can't I can't really think of a reason why because um for me it's just this this really like grey area in doping that we know is happening, like we know athletes are using TUEs and have historically used TUEs to cheat.
[12:43] SPEAKER_00: So I don't like that we have that, and um I wish it was something that that pro athletes and um fans of endurance sport pushed for um to be made public.
[12:54] SPEAKER_03: Do you think TUEs should be public?
[12:56] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
[12:58] SPEAKER_02: Like Jack said, I know there's an element of privacy, but I think as an athlete racing for a living there has to be some concessions made, and I think TUE should be made public, and then yeah, anyone can go and see what their competitors are kind of getting a therapeutic use exemption for.
[13:18] SPEAKER_02: I think, yeah, it just removes some doubt and just creates clarity around what other athletes are on, and yeah, I think while it is an invas not an invasion of privacy, but I think there has to be some you know, when you're racing at the level that we are, there has to be some concessions made.
[13:37] SPEAKER_02: So I mean, yeah, I would like to see them public personally.
[13:42] SPEAKER_03: Alright, Apo, again, do you feel like it's your moral obligation to speak up as a veteran of the sport um and rally your compatriots to to make this a reality, or do you feel like you're fine just sitting on the sidelines uh doing nothing, just saying your opinion on a podcast?
[14:04] SPEAKER_02: I'm quite happy just saying my opinions uh unsolicited to uh to the listeners.
[14:10] SPEAKER_02: No, I don't feel any uh any obligation as a you know as an old man.
[14:16] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, uh I mean I've yeah, I've never had a staunch stance one way or the other, really.
[14:25] SPEAKER_02: I would like to see them public, but I'm not mad that they're not public, if that makes sense.
[14:30] SPEAKER_03: Jack, early on in your podcast days, you were really critical of Iron Man.
[14:35] SPEAKER_03: Why have you softened your stance?
[14:39] SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I haven't intentionally softened my stance per se.
[14:42] SPEAKER_00: I think I just try and say what I like or say it how I'm seeing it.
[14:46] SPEAKER_00: I didn't like a lot of what Iron Man were doing in maybe like 2023, 2022, and and even for like a good chunk of the late 20 teens.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: I just thought they'd gotten a bit money hungry in a lot of their decisions and were taking away from people who were trying to do the sport, like with costs um of of entries and the move away from Kona and and not trying to make that like I I feel like they could have done more to try and keep that that at Kona, and and I really feel like they could have done more to keep their prices down for a little bit there.
[15:17] SPEAKER_00: I kind of just like where they're going more now.
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: I think Scott DeRoo is a CEO who appears to be listening to people more and wanting to implement change that people care about.
[15:26] SPEAKER_00: So I guess I'm just saying what I'm saying.
[15:29] SPEAKER_00: I also love the pro series, and I know that's only come about because of the PTO and the T100, but I really, I really like the Pro Series and um and uh that that is a Mesic uh brainchild, it's not a Scott DeRoo thing.
[15:41] SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't like I just hated Andrew Messic and liked Scott DeRoo, it's just I like the changes I'm seeing in Iron Man right now, and I do think the fact that they decided to change CEO is kind of indicative of that, that they kind of put a picket in the ground and said, Okay, this is a fresh start here and and we are gonna change the way we're doing things.
[15:57] SPEAKER_00: So it's not like a intentional change in stance on Iron Man, it's just calling it as I see it at the time.
[16:04] SPEAKER_03: Apo, do you think the triathlon is a bit soft when it comes to criticism of athletes and that as a community, for the sake of entertainment and attracting new fans, we need to embrace this like all other big sports and move forward as a professional sport and be a little more critical and create some rivalries?
[16:25] SPEAKER_02: I think the rivalries that rivalries that form organically are interesting.
[16:30] SPEAKER_02: I didn't like it, um, and I think I don't think many people did when the T-100 were like going really hard trying to force these rivalries.
[16:39] SPEAKER_02: Remember when they were doing that a couple of years ago?
[16:41] SPEAKER_02: Like they were trying really hard to um to organize these rivalries or manufacture um stuff like that, and it just felt disingenuous and it didn't really I don't think it really hit.
[16:53] SPEAKER_02: Well it didn't hit with me and I don't know about how you guys felt about it, but I think the organic rivalry's uh really good.
[17:00] SPEAKER_02: Um like I think the the Cat Laura um rivalry is really good.
[17:04] SPEAKER_02: Um Lionel Sam um I think I think there is some good rivalries and I think um you know it wouldn't hurt that if there was more of them that came about, but I don't think manufacturing them like the um PTO were trying to do a couple of years ago is the answer.
[17:20] SPEAKER_02: Um I just think we need to let them develop more naturally.
[17:24] SPEAKER_03: Jack, what do you really think about Iron Man's current CEO, Scott DeRue?
[17:30] SPEAKER_03: Not your politically correct answer, but what do you actually really think about him?
[17:34] SPEAKER_00: Uh like I said before, I think he seems to be doing a pretty good job.
[17:37] SPEAKER_00: He seems to want to listen to people and make some changes.
[17:40] SPEAKER_00: If I had some criticism of him, it would be that he's kind of a bit more faceless than what Mesik was, and like he's he cherry picks where he puts himself.
[17:50] SPEAKER_00: Like he goes on, he goes and does media where he knows he's gonna get soft, um, easy questions.
[17:56] SPEAKER_00: I would like to see him at one point put himself in front of um someone who who will ask uh questions that might be a bit trickier to answer.
[18:05] SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying like this podcast when I think that either, just anyone.
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: Uh, because he hasn't been tested yet.
[18:10] SPEAKER_00: Like we don't know much about him as a CEO.
[18:13] SPEAKER_00: Like what we don't really know what he thinks about the sport since he's come into it, where he thinks the sport needs to go and why.
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: And and I would like someone to put all the questions to him and see what he has to say.
[18:26] SPEAKER_00: Uh, but early days I think he's made a lot of positive change, and overall I I like the direction of Iron Man under Scott DeRoos.
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, for for me, it's mainly positive at this point.
[18:38] SPEAKER_03: Apo.
[18:40] SPEAKER_03: Who is the most attractive male professional triathlete?
[18:44] SPEAKER_03: And you cannot say yourself.
[18:47] SPEAKER_02: Don't worry, mate.
[18:48] SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't put myself in that conversation.
[18:52] SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that is tough.
[18:54] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like as triathletes, we spend a lot of time in the sun.
[18:58] SPEAKER_02: We kind of weather our faces pretty quickly with all those uh especially when you start doing Iron Man.
[19:05] SPEAKER_02: Um most attractive, maybe maybe Morgan Pearson?
[19:15] SPEAKER_02: What are you laughing at, Jack?
[19:17] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know it's the hot seat and we have to answer, but surely like you're a straight male, you've got a wife.
[19:23] SPEAKER_00: Surely you just go no comment.
[19:25] SPEAKER_02: Like that, like Greg, Greg, Greg said no uh no no face fen uh fence sitting.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[19:33] SPEAKER_00: Morgan's just not who I would have picked.
[19:34] SPEAKER_00: I would have gone with uh probably like um Sam Appleton, I reckon.
[19:39] SPEAKER_02: Well, I was swimming yesterday and Morgan was in the lane with me.
[19:43] SPEAKER_02: He was looking good, you know, a bit of rugged chest hair, pretty pretty uh, you know, pretty low body fat percentage.
[19:50] SPEAKER_02: I wasn't yeah.
[19:52] SPEAKER_02: I was kind of happy to be in that lane with him.
[19:54] SPEAKER_03: Well, Jack didn't even need to answer, and he chimed in and answered, so uh that's alright.
[19:58] SPEAKER_03: We'll just leave it at that.
[20:00] SPEAKER_03: Okay, Jack, why haven't we seen you on the T100 broadcast this year?
[20:05] SPEAKER_00: Um, a few different reasons.
[20:08] SPEAKER_00: Uh the main one is travel.
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: So originally, this is this is not exactly how it happened.
[20:13] SPEAKER_00: So originally the T-100 offered me all nine or ten races, depending on how many races there was gonna be.
[20:20] SPEAKER_00: And I was kind of like, yep, in kind of thing.
[20:23] SPEAKER_00: Then the next thing was that the Image and Simmons thing happened.
[20:28] SPEAKER_00: Like I released that story, and she was a T-100 athlete, and given their their uh athlete run organization, um, they had to do an internal investigation into whether I handled that well.
[20:39] SPEAKER_00: They so um Sam Renouf and um Chris Commode and all the big dogs, um, they did a little bit of uh like they they got all the details, all the messages, everything, um, and they decided along with others that it was all handled ri reasonably well and um and that I wasn't at fault with anything there.
[20:57] SPEAKER_00: And so that was all good.
[20:58] SPEAKER_00: There was like a little bit of like, hey, if you have done this poorly, then then you're probably not gonna be allowed to to commentate with us going forward.
[21:05] SPEAKER_00: But then they they yeah, they they came to the conclusion that I did, um, and they were really thorough in how they did that, so that was good.
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: And then um once that got cleaned up, I was uh yeah, supposed to go and commentate from then on in, but I bailed because I just couldn't do the travel.
[21:21] SPEAKER_00: Like from Australia, it's so hard.
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: You have to travel like 14 to 25 hours, um, and you have to do that twice in like five days.
[21:28] SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, it could be 50 hours in a plane in in like five or six days time, and you get there and you barely sleep, and I was just getting unhealthy and it was making me fat and miserable, and I wasn't dealing with the travel that well, so I kind of just bitched it to be honest, and was like I I bailed late from from the races I was supposed to go to to the point where I I was like, I don't I just don't think I can do this, and that's when I approached the T 100 with the idea of me doing the alternative stream instead.
[21:55] SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I just thought that's probably where I'm gonna get the best out of myself anyway.
[21:59] SPEAKER_00: I don't do That well on the main broadcast where you're not really allowed to say everything you think, and you've it's kind of the parameters for what you are and aren't allowed to say are are different to if you could do your own stream.
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: Um, and eventually um Nick Chabonowski and the the team at T100 agreed that that is probably a good idea, and and so that's why they've agreed to let me do the alternative stream and and why you haven't seen me at a T100 race because we've been figuring out which which direction I'm gonna go.
[22:27] SPEAKER_00: Um so nothing sinister, it was it was really just because like I didn't deal well with the travel.
[22:32] SPEAKER_00: And if from anyone who who's from Australia, you'll know how hard it is to do trips to Europe and America.
[22:37] SPEAKER_00: And I think I did I did 10 or 11 last year, which just was too much for me, and I was becoming unproductive in everything I was doing.
[22:43] SPEAKER_00: So uh, long story short, travel was hard, and I liked the idea of doing an alternative stream better.
[22:50] SPEAKER_03: Apo, what's the worst thing about living in USA's triathlon bubble in Boulder, Colorado?
[22:59] SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, I feel like a lot of people would say like the the bubbles or the the training groups, the clicks, but I kind of stay out of all that.
[23:08] SPEAKER_02: But um, maybe like someone will message you and be like, oh, you want to go do this run or this ride, and you kind of just want to do it by yourself because you've got intervals or something, or you know, you just kind of want to be in your own space.
[23:20] SPEAKER_02: I often like to train by myself because you know, get to listen to some podcasts, triathon hour and stuff, you know, just uh enjoy some alone time.
[23:28] SPEAKER_02: But uh and then you make up an excuse to this person that messaged you, and then you end up seeing them out on Left Hand Canyon or something.
[23:37] SPEAKER_02: That's happened to me more more than once, let's put it that way.
[23:44] SPEAKER_03: I don't feel too bad about not being able to pin you down.
[23:46] SPEAKER_03: I guess you're uh elusive to most other people.
[23:49] SPEAKER_03: Um maybe one day we can be friends though.
[23:51] SPEAKER_03: Alright, one day.
[23:52] SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
[23:53] SPEAKER_03: Jack.
[23:54] SPEAKER_03: Lucy Charles Barkley blocked you on Instagram when previously you appeared to be friendly.
[24:00] SPEAKER_03: Do you think you did something wrong and you deserved to be blocked?
[24:03] SPEAKER_00: Well, Greg, she actually unblocked me last week.
[24:06] SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if Reese would want this out there, but she sent me a DM with a kissy face after she unblocked me, which I took to be a kind of, you know, uh an olive branch of, hey, are we good?
[24:18] SPEAKER_00: And I replied and said, the BFFs are back.
[24:21] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we're good again.
[24:23] SPEAKER_00: Um, at the time, did I do anything wrong?
[24:25] SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I don't think I did.
[24:28] SPEAKER_00: I probably just picked a really bad time to take the absolute piss and ask her to transfer me a heap of money the night before one of her races.
[24:36] SPEAKER_00: That was that was probably a bit shitty on my my part.
[24:38] SPEAKER_00: And lesson learned, I'm not as uh maybe silly as I was two years ago.
[24:42] SPEAKER_00: But don't worry, Greg, me and Lucy, we're back, and she's gonna come and do the podcast uh around Kona.
[24:48] SPEAKER_00: So that's exciting.
[24:51] SPEAKER_03: Apppa, do you think commenting on a trahlete's body weight is fair game?
[24:56] SPEAKER_02: I think this has been a bit of a hot topic the last like 12 months, I feel like.
[25:00] SPEAKER_02: I feel like there's a lot of pearl clutching going on when somebody says, oh, this person looks skinny or like they've lost weight.
[25:06] SPEAKER_02: I think that is generally fine.
[25:09] SPEAKER_02: Um the you know, there's no nefarious meaning behind it saying someone, oh, it looks skinnier or something like that.
[25:17] SPEAKER_02: And I think generally a lot of trihletes do lose weight for big races like uh World Championships, especially.
[25:24] SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I'm not saying like I don't want commentators to go out and say, oh, this person looks bigger than I think that's where it I can draw the line, but I think commenting saying, oh, this person looks fit or it looks like they've lost a little bit of weight, I think that's fine.
[25:39] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I don't I don't see the uh the drama, and I know it's been a bit of a hot topic with some commentators saying that, but yeah, I don't really see it a problem with it.
[25:52] SPEAKER_02: As long as they're not saying, oh, this person looks like they've put on weight or this person looks you know fat or something.
[25:58] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[25:59] SPEAKER_02: That's my opinion.
[26:02] SPEAKER_03: Jack, if you and Bob Babbitt were locked in a cage and had to fight to the death, who would come out alive?
[26:08] SPEAKER_00: Well, Bob's like 85 uh and pretty frail, so I don't think Bob's coming out alive.
[26:15] SPEAKER_00: Uh would I ever want to get in a cage and fight Bob to the death, though?
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: That's the question.
[26:20] SPEAKER_00: And the answer is yes, of course I would.
[26:22] SPEAKER_00: If if Bob wants to do it, we can do it.
[26:26] SPEAKER_03: Apo, is Justin Reality a contender or a pretender?
[26:30] SPEAKER_02: Well, before Boise, I would have probably said contender, but um after that display, I'm gonna have to go with pretender.
[26:42] SPEAKER_00: Big time pretender.
[26:43] SPEAKER_03: Can you give the fans just a quick update on the the lawyer situation with uh Justin?
[26:49] SPEAKER_02: I've actually had no communications with Justin.
[26:51] SPEAKER_02: There's been no Instagram DMs, which has surprised me a little bit, to be honest.
[26:56] SPEAKER_02: I did see there was a comment on Spotify, though, from Justin, but no direct contact with myself.
[27:02] SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, I think I'm gonna have to get my lawyers to reach out to his lawyers to uh get some communication rolling.
[27:11] SPEAKER_03: Jack, what do you really think about T100's CEO Sam Renof?
[27:17] SPEAKER_00: Uh I really like Sam as a person.
[27:22] SPEAKER_00: Really like him.
[27:23] SPEAKER_00: Uh I think I said this in last week's podcast.
[27:25] SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'd call him a friend, but he's something close to a friend, and he's been a really good uh he's been really good to me.
[27:32] SPEAKER_00: Like, really, really good.
[27:34] SPEAKER_00: He's the one who gave me the opportunity to come and commentate.
[27:36] SPEAKER_00: He's the one who made the phone call and said to me, like, hey, would you want to come and commentate for us?
[27:40] SPEAKER_00: He's never said no to coming and doing a podcast.
[27:43] SPEAKER_00: So personally, what do I think about him?
[27:45] SPEAKER_00: I really like him.
[27:46] SPEAKER_00: As a CEO, though, and I've said this the last few weeks, so maybe that's why you're bringing it up, he's under pressure.
[27:52] SPEAKER_00: I think he's the most under pressure man in Triathlon right now.
[27:56] SPEAKER_00: I think the T-100 needs to improve or it's going to fade away into insignificance eventually.
[28:03] SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think Iron Man's an absolute behemoth, and going up against them, you have to do things like truly differently and truly special.
[28:11] SPEAKER_00: And the T-100 came on the scene and they started doing that.
[28:14] SPEAKER_00: And I think the original PTO opens were different and special, and I really, I really deeply thought that they had a chance.
[28:23] SPEAKER_00: But now the longer it goes, the more I'm starting to think that it doesn't stand a chance to still be here in 10 years' time or 20 years' time.
[28:32] SPEAKER_00: And I think now's the time where it where it needs to change, and it needs to change drastic drastically.
[28:38] SPEAKER_00: It needs to become more fun and less boring.
[28:40] SPEAKER_00: And Sam's the CEO of that.
[28:42] SPEAKER_00: So um, as a CEO of a of a company in Trifle on the T100, I think he needs to do some do some things drastically different inside the next two years, or he's in trouble not only for his job, but for the T100's success.
[28:59] SPEAKER_03: Apo, looks like you've had one DNF your whole career.
[29:02] SPEAKER_03: I went through your results page on the PTO website.
[29:06] SPEAKER_03: Do you think DNFing because you don't feel good is soft behavior from professionals?
[29:12] SPEAKER_02: Where was my DNF from, do you know?
[29:14] SPEAKER_02: Was it uh Bustleton two years ago?
[29:17] SPEAKER_02: I crashed out.
[29:18] SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't even a decision to DNF, it was a forcible DNF.
[29:23] SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know.
[29:26] SPEAKER_02: Maybe that sheds light on your opinion.
[29:30] SPEAKER_02: I've always liked to finish what I start, you know, even um on bad days.
[29:35] SPEAKER_02: But I also understand like it's a career, right?
[29:39] SPEAKER_02: And if if finishing a race just to get the finishers medal is gonna jeopardize another race, you know, a month later, then I can I can totally understand why people pull out.
[29:48] SPEAKER_02: Personally, for me, it's just more of my own um yeah, my own reasons.
[29:55] SPEAKER_02: I like to finish what I start.
[29:56] SPEAKER_02: I think it's um I think it's respectful to the competition to finish even on bad days.
[30:02] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I just it's never really been an issue.
[30:08] SPEAKER_02: I have wanted to pull out of races before, but um yeah, when things are going bad, but yeah, I just never, never have, and I think it's always I've never ever regretted finishing a race, even when I've had to, you know, walk home from the energy lab in Kona.
[30:27] SPEAKER_02: So you do think it is soft then?
[30:29] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[30:30] SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe soft isn't the right word.
[30:32] SPEAKER_02: Disrespectful to the competition.
[30:33] SPEAKER_02: Like, I can understand if someone's having if you've got a stress fracture, or you're, you know, if you're physically can't get to the finish line, then obviously I'll I'll allow some I'll have some leniency.
[30:46] SPEAKER_02: But if you just pull out because you don't feel good and I don't know.
[30:50] SPEAKER_02: I've seen athletes pull out like 4k from the finish line at a 70.3.
[30:55] SPEAKER_02: I'm like, come on, just like chug it in, you know.
[30:58] SPEAKER_00: I think he does think it's soft, Greg.
[31:00] SPEAKER_03: As I pulling strings to get it.
[31:03] SPEAKER_03: I just want to go on record for my opinion, because I wrote the question that I think it's fucking soft, and I think you should finish the race and respect everyone out there.
[31:14] SPEAKER_03: I agree, I agree.
[31:15] SPEAKER_03: Jack, who do you think the best triathlete of all time is, and why is it Alistair Brownlee?
[31:23] SPEAKER_00: Nah, Alistair's number three for me, Greg.
[31:26] SPEAKER_00: Uh the the best triathlete of all time is Daniela Reef.
[31:31] SPEAKER_00: And so she's the greatest ever, male and female.
[31:35] SPEAKER_00: That obviously makes her the best female of all time as well.
[31:37] SPEAKER_00: But if you did have to um, you know, go by sex, then then Jan's the best male of all time.
[31:43] SPEAKER_00: Alistair's number two.
[31:44] SPEAKER_00: So that's my top three.
[31:46] SPEAKER_03: I don't respect it, but we'll move on.
[31:48] SPEAKER_03: Um Apo, are you ever scared to race because you think you can't win or you're embarrassed about how badly you might race on that day?
[31:57] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I wouldn't say scared or embarrassed is the right words.
[32:00] SPEAKER_02: Definitely like nervousness, anxiety around performance, and um sometimes actually the the races that I should, well not you you should never win a race, right?
[32:12] SPEAKER_02: But races I think I have the best chance of winning are sometimes the races that actually cause the most anxiety because it's like, you know, I probably, you know, I could win this race.
[32:24] SPEAKER_02: Whereas if it's like a a Kona or something that you're not really expected to win, um, you know, sometimes the nerves are a little bit less.
[32:31] SPEAKER_02: So sometimes it's the lower tier races that actually get me a little bit more anxious and and nervous about races that I should do well at um in terms of a position.
[32:40] SPEAKER_02: Um, but I've never been scared to race um or felt embarrassed.
[32:46] SPEAKER_02: And I mean I felt embarrassed about bad performances for sure, but never like pre-race embarrassment.
[32:52] SPEAKER_03: Speaking of your goat, your male goat, Jack, do you think Jan Ferdano's power numbers from his Kona wins would be impressive or unimpressive?
[33:04] SPEAKER_00: Unimpressive for sure, uh, by today's standards where Rico Bogan and Sam Lato and Magnus Did live and are doing crazy things.
[33:12] SPEAKER_00: Um I it's funny you asked this, Greg.
[33:15] SPEAKER_00: We we didn't talk about this beforehand, but I was messaging Jan the other day about his riding, and he kind of said himself that the way he was riding in 2019 wasn't very good.
[33:27] SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what do you mean, mate?
[33:28] SPEAKER_00: Like he rode off the front of Kona in the last 40ks and went on to win that day.
[33:32] SPEAKER_00: But he doesn't think he was riding that well compared to even how he rides now.
[33:36] SPEAKER_00: So I guess that just speaks to the level that Trithlon has gone to on the bike over the past six or so years.
[33:42] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think by today's standard, by today's standards, Jarn's power numbers in all of his Kona wins would probably be relatively unimpressive.
[33:52] SPEAKER_03: Apo, have you ever had any races where you've made up a reason in your head to stop giving a hundred percent because of how you were feeling?
[34:02] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean Yeah, pretty probably more times than I care to admit.
[34:08] SPEAKER_02: Um just like if you're in a position in the run, you've got a couple of K to go, and it's like say you're in fifth place, sixth place is two minutes behind, you're not gonna catch fourth, you know, it's it's fine to shut it down a little bit and not jog it in, but just dial it back a little bit.
[34:25] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I mean, situations like that, like I'm not sprinting all the way to the line, you know, if I'm not gonna make up any other positions.
[34:35] SPEAKER_02: Um similarly, if you're if you're kind of out in front as well, if you've got a little bit of a buffer to enjoy that last 3 or 4k, then yeah, I've done that a few times as well.
[34:45] SPEAKER_02: Um, and then awful races where I've just wanted to get to the finish line.
[34:50] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
[34:51] SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I'm given way less than a hundred, you know, I'm given 20%.
[34:55] SPEAKER_02: I was given 20% coming home from the energy lab in Kona, you know.
[34:59] SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to get to the finish.
[35:00] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we all saw that.
[35:02] SPEAKER_02: Okay, last question.
[35:03] SPEAKER_03: This one is gonna be for both of you.
[35:09] SPEAKER_03: The Iron Man World Championships is under a month away.
[35:13] SPEAKER_03: I want you to put a big name on the line that you think is not going to win the race.
[35:19] SPEAKER_03: Jack, you go first.
[35:21] SPEAKER_00: Uh Christian Blumenfeld, I don't think he'll win the race.
[35:26] SPEAKER_02: Um I'm gonna offend someone.
[35:30] SPEAKER_02: Um Martin Van Rieel.
[35:34] SPEAKER_00: Oh, easy option.
[35:35] SPEAKER_00: I thought about that, but that's the that is the absolute easy option.
[35:39] SPEAKER_00: He might not even race, mate.
[35:42] SPEAKER_02: He's a big name that I don't think will win.
[35:44] SPEAKER_00: Oh, I should have taken off.
[35:46] SPEAKER_00: I'm playing within the rules.
[35:47] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
[35:48] SPEAKER_00: You've done well there, because I thought about it.
[35:49] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, nah, that's the soft option.
[35:51] SPEAKER_00: Like he he honestly might not even race.
[35:53] SPEAKER_00: Uh, well played.
[35:54] SPEAKER_02: I know he's got an injury.
[35:55] SPEAKER_02: Is he is he not gonna well he's got like an ankle problem.
[35:58] SPEAKER_02: Is he not gonna race?
[35:59] SPEAKER_02: Is it is it that bad?
[36:01] SPEAKER_00: Well, he he hasn't ran in like weeks, like a month or so, and um he like sprained his ankle or something like that.
[36:07] SPEAKER_00: And then uh yeah, he was gonna make the call on whether he races or not um last week, but then he got to the point where he's like, Oh, I guess I could maybe race, but maybe I can't race.
[36:18] SPEAKER_00: So, and he's also um he's just not that fit across the board compared to what he has been.
[36:23] SPEAKER_00: So I think uh I think he's in that position right now where he doesn't think he can have his best day no matter what happens from here, even if he does make the start line.
[36:32] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[36:33] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he he was plagued by that angle.
[36:35] SPEAKER_03: I think it was a lot of maybe last year or the year before, too.
[36:39] SPEAKER_03: So hopefully he can tow the line and uh give us a show.
[36:43] SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that's it for the hot seat.
[36:46] SPEAKER_03: Now, if anyone out there thinks of any good hot seat questions for Jack or Apo, please leave a comment on Spotify on this episode so I can steal it for next week and uh not give you any credit.
[36:58] SPEAKER_03: So if you want to be uh one of those behind the scenes get some no no credit type person, put that put that question in.
[37:05] SPEAKER_02: We might need to put you on the hot seat, Greg.
[37:07] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're going on the hot seat next week, Greg, for sure.
[37:09] SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
[37:10] SPEAKER_00: That was bring it.
[37:12] SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
[37:13] SPEAKER_00: I thought Apo sat on the fence a little bit more.
[37:16] SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't mind saying a bit more of uh saying what he actually thinks.
[37:19] SPEAKER_00: That's not the Apo we get off here.
[37:21] SPEAKER_00: He's still only at 70% there, I reckon.
[37:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little soft.
[37:26] SPEAKER_00: The single hardest thing about training is being consistent.
[37:30] SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing more frustrating than when you want to be consistent or you've finally found some consistency and you get yet another running-related injury like Achilles pain, a stress fractural reaction, a runner's knee or some plantar fasciitis.
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[38:15] SPEAKER_00: What many people don't know is that seven of the top 11 women at the 2024 IM World Championships used Lever to train and recover in the lead up to the race, including the world champion.
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[38:48] SPEAKER_00: Get consistent in your running.
[38:50] SPEAKER_00: It's the main thing that will get you running faster.
[38:54] SPEAKER_00: Um, all right, let's move on.
[38:56] SPEAKER_00: Under pressure time.
[38:57] SPEAKER_00: This is one of my favorite segments.
[38:58] SPEAKER_00: It's a send a segment where myself, Apo, and Greg each bring someone who we feel is under pressure in the triathon world and explain why.
[39:06] SPEAKER_00: And any questions that the other two might have to us uh uh have for us about why that person's under pressure, we can ask away.
[39:12] SPEAKER_00: Greg, you haven't spoken for for the majority of this podcast.
[39:15] SPEAKER_00: Why don't you start us off with who's under pressure this week?
[39:18] SPEAKER_03: Alright, I'm going my under pressure is a male Pro Tro athlete, Kyle Smith.
[39:25] SPEAKER_03: I thought he was ready to take a top step after two second place performances, kind of to the middle of last year.
[39:32] SPEAKER_03: But since those two seconds, we've seen a fourth, fourth, fourth, fifth DNF on the T-100 uh circuit.
[39:42] SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I think Kyle's uh uh under a little bit of pressure.
[39:46] SPEAKER_03: I'm sure he feels it for himself, but I don't have too much to say about it.
[39:50] SPEAKER_03: I I think he's under pressure to to show us some if he's really one of those big dogs, and we can can consider him a true contender, as they say, for a big world title.
[40:02] SPEAKER_00: So what's your opinion, Greg?
[40:04] SPEAKER_00: Do you think that he can take that step and get back to where he was?
[40:08] SPEAKER_00: Or do you do you expect to see him only go backwards from here?
[40:12] SPEAKER_03: No, I think he can take that step up again.
[40:15] SPEAKER_03: Um you just gotta be consistent, I guess.
[40:18] SPEAKER_03: And I know he's had a couple injuries, and I I believe he can get there.
[40:23] SPEAKER_03: He is still relatively young as well.
[40:26] SPEAKER_03: Um, but he's almost gonna need to turn his bike into maybe like a Rico Bogan type, you know, and and maybe stay away from those big runners if he truly wants to win one of these uh major races.
[40:36] SPEAKER_03: He might have to come off the the bike in the front, because I don't really ever see him outrunning some of those super fast runners to win one of those big races.
[40:46] SPEAKER_02: We have seen Kyle um ride off the front.
[40:49] SPEAKER_02: Like um, I think you know, only Sam Laidlow at London uh last year rode better than him.
[40:55] SPEAKER_02: So Kyle does definitely have that ability to kind of be in that group or being off the front with someone like Arico.
[41:02] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I will push back a little bit and say that I think fourth and fifth um at San Fran and Vancouver are actually pretty good races.
[41:10] SPEAKER_02: Like you know, fourth and fifth at these races, like these are the best athletes in the world.
[41:17] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, he is hungry for more and he is still young.
[41:20] SPEAKER_02: I think I wouldn't say there's been maybe a regression, but um yeah, I definitely think he's still got you know a high ceiling to push.
[41:28] SPEAKER_02: Um but I think fourth and fifth are solid results at these PTO races.
[41:32] SPEAKER_00: It seems like you just have high expectations of him, Greg, right?
[41:35] SPEAKER_00: Like you just see him as someone who was saying at London T100, apart from Sam Laidlow, you know, doing what he did that day, which was crazy, was a guy who was right there and ready to win one of these big races.
[41:47] SPEAKER_00: So you're not saying fourth and fifth are bad, you're just saying that you were expecting him to take that next step and start winning these races.
[41:53] SPEAKER_00: And given that he's kind of gone the other way, even if it is only a little bit, that that's why you think he's under pressure, especially coming off his DNF.
[42:01] SPEAKER_03: Yep, 100% on that.
[42:02] SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, even in in Topah, I thought he had a had a shot to win, and you know, he he played his cards, but I think that explanation of it, Jack, is 100%.
[42:11] SPEAKER_03: And um Apple's putting words in my mouth saying that fourth and fifth are not good, but I never said they were good.
[42:16] SPEAKER_03: I just think Kyle Smith is under pressure.
[42:20] SPEAKER_00: Alright, my one now.
[42:22] SPEAKER_00: Uh for me, Rudy Von Berg is under pressure.
[42:26] SPEAKER_00: In my opinion, this is his last year to win an Iron Man World Championships title.
[42:33] SPEAKER_00: He's 31, he's turning 32, so it's not an age thing because we've seen Patrick Langer and Craig Alexander and Jan Fredino all win it at 37 and 38 years old.
[42:43] SPEAKER_00: But for me, it's just a skill set thing.
[42:45] SPEAKER_00: I think Rudy Von Berg is made for this Nice course, and we know that it's going back to Kona next year.
[42:51] SPEAKER_00: That bike course at Nice, it's just so brutal, and so many people will blow up on it, but it suits him and his ability to just stay really, really strong while others around him crack.
[43:01] SPEAKER_00: So from Kona 2026, athletes like Rudy, who are that really, really strong across all three disciplines, they don't really have a weakness, they don't really blow up that badly, they're super consistent, but they lack a serious weapon will begin to struggle more and more against the fast marathonners who also swim front pack and can ride strong enough to stay at the front of the race.
[43:24] SPEAKER_00: That I think we're gonna be we we're gonna see start becoming the norm in long course racing, particularly when people like Hayden Wilde step up.
[43:31] SPEAKER_00: I think I think when Hayden Wilde makes that step, it's gonna be really tough for Rudy.
[43:36] SPEAKER_00: I think the one weapon Rudy might have is his technical ability down big descent.
[43:42] SPEAKER_00: That's the Iron Man World Championships at Nice, but that's not what we see at Kona.
[43:45] SPEAKER_00: Kona is a pure time trialist course.
[43:48] SPEAKER_00: And I know he came third at Kona last year and fourth at Nice, so natural regression suggests that maybe he can come second and first, but I think this year's the year, and if he doesn't win it this year, I don't think we'll see him.
[44:00] SPEAKER_00: Win one in his career.
[44:01] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you touched on it, Jack.
[44:03] SPEAKER_02: It's his um it's the descending ability of Rudy that is such a weapon for him.
[44:09] SPEAKER_02: Um like he grew up on these roads in Nice.
[44:11] SPEAKER_02: We saw it in 2019 when it was the 70.3 worlds, um, and we saw it last year.
[44:18] SPEAKER_02: He's just so good on that descent, and he's like a great climber as well.
[44:21] SPEAKER_02: His power to weight is pretty good, he's a lean, skinny guy.
[44:25] SPEAKER_02: Um, but that descent is where he makes up where he unleashes that weapon and puts so much time onto everybody else.
[44:32] SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, was he third at Kona last year, right?
[44:36] SPEAKER_02: So he's still racing well in Kona, like outside of Nice, but I definitely think Nice suits him a lot more than Kona does.
[44:45] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, do you think he has to come off the bike with a few minutes here to win the race, Jack?
[44:52] SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, he gets into the Jonas Schoenberg, maybe Martin Van Reel, he gets in with these guys, and that's how his ticket to win the race.
[45:00] SPEAKER_03: But it seems like in Kona something similar could happen where he comes in a bike by Groy.
[45:05] SPEAKER_03: I think I think he's really strategic with his riding, and I think he's arrow as well.
[45:10] SPEAKER_03: So I still see a world where he could win an Iron Man title, even in Kona, if the dynamics are right, but I think you are right in the sense that this is probably his best shot.
[45:19] SPEAKER_03: But I'm not gonna I'm not gonna ride him off because no one's been more consistent than this guy at the front of world championship racing.
[45:27] SPEAKER_00: I I think at Kona he's not gonna have the marathon going forward to win the race.
[45:31] SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think at Nice he can come off, you know, within two to three minutes of the lead, if not in the lead group this year, and have a real chance to win it.
[45:39] SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not saying he will win it this year, I just think this is his last chance.
[45:43] SPEAKER_00: I I just I just think the marathon's gonna get too fast for him going forward when some people start running, you know, 225 to 230 at Kona like it's normal, which trust me, sounds crazy, but he's coming in the next few years.
[45:56] SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's happening sooner rather than later.
[45:58] SPEAKER_00: And and I don't think Rudy's ever gonna be more than like a 235 kind of guy at Kona, which maybe is controversial and and I hope he can prove me wrong, but I don't fully see it.
[46:09] SPEAKER_00: And I still think he can podium at Kona, I just don't think he can win at Kona.
[46:13] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Rudy's under pressure for me.
[46:16] SPEAKER_02: Alright, guys.
[46:18] SPEAKER_02: Jack, you and I have been lied to.
[46:22] SPEAKER_02: Listeners have been deceived.
[46:24] SPEAKER_02: Since the inception of the Trifle N Hour, we've been led to believe that someone among us, someone on this very podcast, is the best at his craft.
[46:36] SPEAKER_02: The other day, I was perusing the PTO website and was stunned, stunned, when I came across the swim rankings and noticed that none other than Gregory Robert Harper is not the number one ranked swimmer.
[46:54] SPEAKER_02: That's right.
[46:55] SPEAKER_02: My athlete who is under pressure is Greg.
[46:57] SPEAKER_02: He needs to claim this rank so he can continue to give out this unsolicited swimming advice that he seems like he can just throw out on this podcast to all the listeners as though he is like the best swimmer in the sport when it's proven that he's not.
[47:13] SPEAKER_02: Greg, what do you have to say for yourself?
[47:17] SPEAKER_03: I don't like to make excuses, and I need to be better.
[47:20] SPEAKER_03: And you know, sadly, my world championship swim is gonna be off by the end of the year, and I'm gonna be dropping down the rankings.
[47:26] SPEAKER_03: However, I will say everyone else in that top 10 is a T-100 person, and I'm not.
[47:31] SPEAKER_03: So that's my defense.
[47:33] SPEAKER_03: And just you don't have to be a great swimmer to be a great coach, Apo.
[47:36] SPEAKER_03: And I'm actually a better swim coach than I am a swimmer.
[47:40] SPEAKER_03: I'm actually not even that fast.
[47:41] SPEAKER_03: Triathletes just suck at swimming, and everyone thinks I'm that fast, but I'm actually freaking slow.
[47:46] SPEAKER_03: So I don't really care.
[47:49] SPEAKER_03: All right, next, next.
[47:53] SPEAKER_02: Jack, how do you feel about being deceived?
[47:56] SPEAKER_00: Uh pretty used to it from Greg.
[47:58] SPEAKER_00: I mean No, like like honestly, I don't think Greg's the fastest swimmer in Triton.
[48:05] SPEAKER_00: I think he's the second fastest swimmer, and I've said this to him before anyway, but I don't think it's the person who's ranked number one that's the fastest swimmer.
[48:13] SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it's not a surprise to me.
[48:16] SPEAKER_00: I've I've had Greg as number two on my uh best swimmer in Triton list for about yeah, about a year now.
[48:22] SPEAKER_00: So no surprise to me.
[48:24] SPEAKER_02: Alright, I've got a I've got a question for you, Greg.
[48:27] SPEAKER_02: Um, yourself, Aaron Royal, Josh Amberger, um who else is a fast swimmer?
[48:36] SPEAKER_02: Mark Dubrick, um Vince Lewis and Jamie Riddle.
[48:42] SPEAKER_02: 400 meter in the pool.
[48:44] SPEAKER_03: Who wins?
[48:46] SPEAKER_03: I win, dude.
[48:47] SPEAKER_03: And Vince is a close second.
[48:48] SPEAKER_03: That's not even those aren't even the fastest swimmers.
[48:50] SPEAKER_03: You didn't even name Hans Butters and Sam Oscar Doran or however you say his last name.
[48:58] SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, I should know Sam because he's an Australian.
[49:00] SPEAKER_03: He's still an he he's still he's still an amateur, though, so I don't think you can put him in the conversation.
[49:05] SPEAKER_03: But you just named a bunch of old heads, dude.
[49:07] SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I'll take them, I'll take those guys down too.
[49:11] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Appo, Greg beats all of those guys 100%.
[49:14] SPEAKER_00: It's Hans Butters who he doesn't beat.
[49:16] SPEAKER_00: Hans is the best swimmer in the sport by a mile.
[49:18] SPEAKER_00: He's he's got faster PP PBs than Greg over a very distance in freestyle.
[49:24] SPEAKER_00: Uh Sam Ascodoran's number three as well.
[49:26] SPEAKER_00: Greg would beat him, I reckon, especially over 400.
[49:28] SPEAKER_02: What about um oh his name's escaped to me now?
[49:32] SPEAKER_02: Who led out of at Roth at Roth?
[49:35] SPEAKER_02: Um, or he was leading for most of it.
[49:38] SPEAKER_02: Um You mean Lucas?
[49:39] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, Lucas.
[49:41] SPEAKER_00: No, he's he's behind all those three.
[49:43] SPEAKER_00: The three the three best are Hans, Greg, and Sam Askidoran, in my opinion.
[49:48] SPEAKER_00: Fair.
[49:49] SPEAKER_03: Conus from Course Record for me next year.
[49:52] SPEAKER_03: You already hear first.
[49:55] SPEAKER_00: Alright, boys.
[49:56] SPEAKER_00: Time for a little bit of training discussion.
[49:58] SPEAKER_00: We thought we'd all just bring you know a topic, something relatively related to training, and just chat about it.
[50:04] SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe it's a little bit of a thing that you guys can learn something from or take something away from.
[50:09] SPEAKER_00: Apo, did you want to start us off with um with your training uh topic?
[50:13] SPEAKER_02: Sure.
[50:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's let's just continue with this unsolicited training advice that we spew out on this podcast.
[50:18] SPEAKER_02: Mine is weekly volume in terms of hours is a useless metric, and it shouldn't be like considered when planning a week.
[50:29] SPEAKER_02: Um like you shouldn't look at the number of hours and be like, oh, I'm only at 13 hours, I want to hit 15 just for the sake of hitting 15.
[50:37] SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, when you train for an Iron Man, that's always going to be you're always gonna be training a lot, right?
[50:43] SPEAKER_02: But I think it's the substance of that training that really matters.
[50:46] SPEAKER_02: Um like more important stuff like TSS, specific uh specificity, energy expenditure, all that stuff is way more important than hitting some arbitrary number to make you feel good at the end of the week.
[50:59] SPEAKER_00: I like this one, Apo, and I completely agree with you for the most part.
[51:03] SPEAKER_00: But do you think that some people might hear that and use that as an excuse to not do some training because it's like, well, oh, that doesn't really add anything in terms of specificity or intensity.
[51:14] SPEAKER_00: So I don't need it, uh, and volume doesn't really matter as just a way to not train as much as maybe what they should.
[51:21] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[51:22] SPEAKER_02: Well, I think you have to be careful, right?
[51:23] SPEAKER_02: Like if you're training for an Iron Man, a four-hour or a five-hour or a six-hour ride is still specific, right?
[51:30] SPEAKER_02: Because it's specific to training for an Iron Man.
[51:32] SPEAKER_02: I'm just generally, you know, looking at a week and being like, I want to hit 20 hours is not the way you should plan out.
[51:40] SPEAKER_02: It should be more specific to the needs and the demands of the race.
[51:44] SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, doing a long ride is still specific to an Iron Man.
[51:49] SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, you're not gonna I'm not telling people to that they shouldn't train long for the demands of an Iron Man or do any long runs, but um I just think I've seen this obsession with, oh, I did 25 hours, I did 30 hours, are you a low volume or high volume um high volume athlete, you know?
[52:07] SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like none of it really matters.
[52:09] SPEAKER_02: I think lifetime mileage is way more important than kind of like weekly volume.
[52:14] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I just think that there's this obsession around hours per week train of people training, and I don't think it is that important in the long run.
[52:24] SPEAKER_03: Now you touched on it.
[52:26] SPEAKER_03: Do you think you're slightly jaded, not jaded, but you've accumulated a ton of hours over the course of your career?
[52:34] SPEAKER_03: So now you can probably do less than people who maybe are trying to you know play play catch-up, quote unquote.
[52:40] SPEAKER_03: And a second part to that question is are you just saying this to rationalize your own lack of training to you know keep your confidence high moving into the rest of the season?
[52:52] SPEAKER_02: Well, it's Sunday afternoon, and there's a couple of red uh red sessions in my training peaks, and the hours are a little low, so I'm just um you know, I'm compensating a little bit by no, but you're right.
[53:04] SPEAKER_02: I do have a lot of lifetime mileage.
[53:07] SPEAKER_02: Like I've been doing trithlon for like twenty twenty-three or twenty-four years at this point.
[53:12] SPEAKER_02: So um there is an element of that.
[53:14] SPEAKER_02: I just think that there is this obsession with hours, and um, you know, I don't think doing an hour extra on the bike at, you know, zone one is necessarily gonna help you in the long run.
[53:30] SPEAKER_02: But if it made your hours in the week go up to 15 and it looks good, I just don't think that's needed, you know.
[53:36] SPEAKER_02: I think I think we need to detach and not be a slave to the number.
[53:40] SPEAKER_02: I think there's way more important metrics that we can look at.
[53:43] SPEAKER_00: So when you are gonna structure a week, you sit there in front of training peaks, for example, or your notepad or your email, wherever you write down your training, and you have a blank slate for the week.
[53:54] SPEAKER_00: The th the thing that shouldn't be at the top of your list is 20 hours, and let's make it all cookie-cutter to fit that 20 hours.
[54:00] SPEAKER_00: That's what you're saying.
[54:01] SPEAKER_00: What should be at the top of your list?
[54:04] SPEAKER_02: I think you map out the key sessions of the week that you want to hit.
[54:08] SPEAKER_02: You have a priority, yeah, like priority one sessions that are non-negotiables.
[54:13] SPEAKER_02: Um, you put those on days.
[54:16] SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if you want to do a brick session on a Saturday, you know, like a 70.3 specific ride into a brick session hard run off the bike, that's a priority session of the week.
[54:27] SPEAKER_02: You want to do, you know, a hard bike midweek and a hard run midweek, and then everything else is kind of supplemental to that.
[54:34] SPEAKER_02: I think you plan out those key sessions first, and they're the non-negotiables, right?
[54:38] SPEAKER_02: They're the priority one.
[54:39] SPEAKER_02: And then everything else should fall around that and be supplemental around those key sessions.
[54:46] SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I'm not saying that you shouldn't add on aerobic volume here and there when it makes sense, but if it's going to take away from those key sessions, um, I don't think it's beneficial.
[54:59] SPEAKER_00: My talking points kind of follow on really well from this appo.
[55:02] SPEAKER_00: I've got mine's a two-parter.
[55:04] SPEAKER_00: Part one for mine, it's a question for you boys.
[55:07] SPEAKER_00: Should triathletes be doing a weekly easy long run, or should they just make one of their quality run sessions a long run instead by adding on extra in the warm-up and cool down and maybe doing a little bit of a longer duration in the main set of that quality run?
[55:23] SPEAKER_02: I think you can do both, right?
[55:25] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm obviously coming from a from the angle as a pro-triath, but when I'm doing my Iron Man builds, you know, I often have midweek sessions that are upwards of 20 to 25k, and then also a Sunday long run that might be 30 to 32k.
[55:41] SPEAKER_02: You know, I think you can have both.
[55:43] SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying, you know, the working man or woman can fit all that in.
[55:48] SPEAKER_02: Um, so they have to be a little bit more, you know, there's obviously a few more restrictions around their week.
[55:53] SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I don't think it has to be one or the other.
[55:57] SPEAKER_02: I think you can do both.
[55:58] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it really depends on a couple things.
[56:02] SPEAKER_03: I think first is kind of your history of injury.
[56:05] SPEAKER_03: You know, are you running pain-free consistently for maybe a couple months before?
[56:10] SPEAKER_03: I think you know, it's that typical Sunday long run that a lot of people do, even professionals.
[56:15] SPEAKER_03: Adding quality to one of your last sessions after a stressful week is where you're the most vulnerable to injury, essentially.
[56:24] SPEAKER_03: So as long as you're not building up to it too quickly, I mean, a long run with a little bit of quality is one of the most specific sessions you could possibly do for half Iron Man or Iron Man training.
[56:36] SPEAKER_03: So I think a base of easy long run, but I think before you know you get to those major races, doing a quality run in that long run or you know, some race-based stuff is could be risky, but um also super beneficial.
[56:51] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm probably more on the I I've changed on this.
[56:54] SPEAKER_00: I used to be really strong in the camp of a weekly easy long run is crucial to a trython training program.
[57:02] SPEAKER_00: But now I'm more on the side of uh if you had to pick between an easy long run or a quality long run, I think now I would take the quality long run.
[57:11] SPEAKER_00: If, like Apo said, you can have both, I do think that's hugely beneficial.
[57:15] SPEAKER_00: But I think if you could only have one, I'd pick the one with quality in it from now.
[57:18] SPEAKER_00: Um and then part two to my question kind of follows up on what you're you were saying, Apo.
[57:24] SPEAKER_00: Does weekly run volume matter?
[57:27] SPEAKER_02: To an extent, yes.
[57:28] SPEAKER_02: Um I think for for Iron Man, you have to like Iron Man's so hard.
[57:35] SPEAKER_02: The marathon just breaks your legs, like the muscles down.
[57:39] SPEAKER_02: So you have to you have to simulate some of that muscle breakdown and muscle damage in training, right?
[57:44] SPEAKER_02: You have to you can't just go in and hope to run a good marathon of 20 kilometers a week.
[57:50] SPEAKER_02: Like you have to have you have to harden those quads up, you know.
[57:53] SPEAKER_02: So to an extent it does.
[57:56] SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think there is other ways around to harden the legs.
[58:00] SPEAKER_02: Um if you are kind of a lower volume runner, like you can go to the gym, lift heavy in the gym, leg press, squats, deadlifts, those kind of things.
[58:09] SPEAKER_02: You can also do it is a little bit risky, but if you're a lower volume or time-starved athlete, you can do some stuff like um like downhill running repeats, which harden the legs up, um, you know, trying to dissimulate that muscle breakdown that uh marathon causes in an Iron Man.
[58:27] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think it does matter to an extent, but I don't think you need to be a slave to the number, kind of like what I hit on in my first point.
[58:37] SPEAKER_03: It's that downhill running is the Tim Reed special.
[58:39] SPEAKER_03: I've heard him talk about that before.
[58:41] SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, it is.
[58:41] SPEAKER_03: He loves it.
[58:42] SPEAKER_03: I think weekly run volume, I think it's really important.
[58:46] SPEAKER_03: I mean, in the end, I think to reach your running potential, you probably have to go through some type of trial of miles and see how much you can possibly run.
[58:54] SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we talked about Morgan Pearson.
[58:57] SPEAKER_03: He's one of the best runners in the sport because he's run the most over the course of his life.
[59:02] SPEAKER_03: I mean, that it's just a cold hard fact.
[59:04] SPEAKER_03: Um, he also, I said, um, we'll keep talking about Morgan.
[59:08] SPEAKER_03: Uh, long run day is not an easy day.
[59:10] SPEAKER_03: So that now we know his opinion.
[59:12] SPEAKER_03: But I just I think run volume matters, and obviously the quality of what you're doing um is important as well.
[59:19] SPEAKER_03: And in specific and specific times of the year, but you know, if you want to be a good runner, you have to run a fair amount, and you have to maybe push the limit sometimes to to reach your potential.
[59:30] SPEAKER_00: Yep, I agree, Greg.
[59:32] SPEAKER_00: I think run volume is hugely important.
[59:33] SPEAKER_00: I think the more you can run over a really long period of time, the better.
[59:38] SPEAKER_00: Consistency is everything when it comes to running, it's everything.
[59:42] SPEAKER_00: So if you can be running injury free for five years, that's how you're gonna get the most out of yourself.
[59:48] SPEAKER_00: But not if you're only running 10k a week.
[59:50] SPEAKER_00: You know, there has to be progressive overload in your mileage, and it has to get it has to get to a point where it's relatively challenging.
[59:57] SPEAKER_00: So whether that's you know 80 or 90 or 100 kilometers if you're a professional, or you know, 40, 50, 60 if you're an age grouper who can't fit it all in.
[1:00:07] SPEAKER_00: I do think that it is hugely beneficial to push your progressive overload with your running and that run running weekly volume does matter.
[1:00:15] SPEAKER_00: But the downside is it of it is that it's hugely risky when it comes to injury.
[1:00:19] SPEAKER_00: So you still have to do everything you can to mitigate injury risk, and that is just by smart progressive overload, and you can taper back some weeks before building up again.
[1:00:27] SPEAKER_00: You don't have to get to weekly run mileage quickly, that's a really important thing.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_00: It can take you a year or two years, but I do think you have to get there eventually.
[1:00:37] SPEAKER_03: Well said.
[1:00:38] SPEAKER_03: And my question is it's not my training discussion, is actually a question for you guys.
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_03: And you probably will know my opinion just by how I word the question.
[1:00:48] SPEAKER_03: If your coach gives you three by one thousands or a straight aerobic swim, for example, two to three K without stopping, they are a shit coach coach, and you should fire them immediately.
[1:01:01] SPEAKER_03: Agree or disagree?
[1:01:03] SPEAKER_02: I'm a strong disagree on this one, Greg.
[1:01:07] SPEAKER_02: This is gonna shock you, and this is actually part of the set I wanted to do a segment where I uh you know I get Greg to judge my swimming uh quirks that I have.
[1:01:18] SPEAKER_02: So, Greg, I do pretty much my weekly swim kind of how I look at it is I do two hard swims.
[1:01:26] SPEAKER_02: Everything else, I go to the pool and I basically swim for an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes pretty much straight as just aerobic volume.
[1:01:37] SPEAKER_02: I treat it like cycling and running.
[1:01:38] SPEAKER_02: I have my key run uh swim sessions, everything else is aerobic volume or easy.
[1:01:44] SPEAKER_02: So I often won't even count laps, I'll just look at the pace clock and I'll swim for two times thirty minutes straight.
[1:01:52] SPEAKER_03: I I I should have prefaced this a little bit because in my mind this is for someone who's not a front pack swimmer or someone who is trying to get better.
[1:02:03] SPEAKER_02: If you reach number 70 on the PTO swim rankings.
[1:02:09] SPEAKER_02: I think it's fine for amateurs if it's like a recovery swim or just a maintenance swim for a bit of volume or just maintaining feel for the water.
[1:02:17] SPEAKER_02: Like you know, Greg, it's so important to swim.
[1:02:20] SPEAKER_02: Like it's much more I think it's much more beneficial to do six 3K swims than three six K swims, you know.
[1:02:27] SPEAKER_02: I think feel for the water is so important.
[1:02:30] SPEAKER_02: And sometimes just getting in there and doing uh, you know, just some mindful de-stress of two times one thousand, I think is fine, as long as it's like easy and more of a recovery swim, I think that's fine for a lot of amateurs.
[1:02:43] SPEAKER_02: And I actually give it to a lot of my athletes personally, so I hope they don't fire me after uh hearing this.
[1:02:50] SPEAKER_00: I think that's right, Apo.
[1:02:51] SPEAKER_00: As the coach, I think you have to consider who is the athlete that I'm coaching.
[1:02:56] SPEAKER_00: Because as a blanket rule, if your coach gives you three by a thousand metres or two to three K without stopping, does that make them a shit coach?
[1:03:04] SPEAKER_00: No, I don't think it does.
[1:03:06] SPEAKER_00: Because there's definitely athletes like Greg, for example, who that's actually hugely beneficial to.
[1:03:12] SPEAKER_00: And Greg will hate to hear that and probably won't admit it.
[1:03:15] SPEAKER_00: But if Greg was to do, say, three by a thousand or four by a thousand or even six by a thousand, and there was good quality work in there, some of that was threshold, some of that was tempo, that would improve Greg's swim come race day.
[1:03:29] SPEAKER_00: Zero questions asked.
[1:03:31] SPEAKER_00: But is that beneficial to someone who's been in the sport as a as an adult swimmer uh for say six months?
[1:03:38] SPEAKER_00: No, it's not very, it's not very good for them.
[1:03:41] SPEAKER_00: Like they're not going to get really anything out of that.
[1:03:44] SPEAKER_00: The thing they might get out of that is confidence that they can do the distance.
[1:03:48] SPEAKER_00: And um, if they have a race really soon, you might do something like that so that they uh just have a bit of an idea for what it feels like to swim for you know close to 15 to 20 minutes straight or even up to 30 minutes straight, so that it helps them come race day.
[1:04:02] SPEAKER_00: But I think so.
[1:04:03] SPEAKER_00: I think this is the nuance of coaching, right?
[1:04:05] SPEAKER_00: Like Max Newman does all of his swims like this.
[1:04:07] SPEAKER_00: He only does straight swimming, 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 meters straight.
[1:04:11] SPEAKER_00: He doesn't do intervals at all.
[1:04:13] SPEAKER_00: And he's a front pack swimmer.
[1:04:14] SPEAKER_00: So clearly it's fine for some people, but like like everything with coaching, it just depends who the athlete is, how long they've been swimming for, and what they need.
[1:04:23] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
[1:04:24] SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I generally agree with what you guys are saying.
[1:04:27] SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I just don't think that many people are in that that ballpark where they can get get away with that.
[1:04:32] SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can do whatever I want, it doesn't matter.
[1:04:35] SPEAKER_03: So I but I because I've done all the things my my whole life.
[1:04:38] SPEAKER_03: And same with Apo.
[1:04:40] SPEAKER_03: He's already at that level.
[1:04:41] SPEAKER_03: Except I will say, I can do whatever I want.
[1:04:43] SPEAKER_03: I have dropped Apo a couple times now in the last couple years.
[1:04:47] SPEAKER_03: So I mean, whatever, you know.
[1:04:50] SPEAKER_03: Okay.
[1:04:51] SPEAKER_03: All right, whatever.
[1:04:51] SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Apple.
[1:04:52] SPEAKER_03: I actually think I'm just like kind of shitting on you a bunch this podcast, and I'm I respond to you by the way.
[1:04:59] SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of tension because last week Apo told Greg that they aren't friends, and so I feel like Greg's come into this podcast today.
[1:05:06] SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm gonna get him back for that.
[1:05:08] SPEAKER_00: If we're not friends, then you're gonna cop it, Appo.
[1:05:12] SPEAKER_01: No, I deserve it.
[1:05:13] SPEAKER_01: I deserve it.
[1:05:14] SPEAKER_00: All right, let's finish strong.
[1:05:16] SPEAKER_00: Last segment of the podcast.
[1:05:17] SPEAKER_00: We thought we'd have a little bit of fun.
[1:05:19] SPEAKER_00: It's just a quick one to finish up.
[1:05:21] SPEAKER_00: It's which athletes would you pick to race for your life over the full distance if you had to?
[1:05:28] SPEAKER_00: Uh, Greg, Apo, do you want to go like we all do our number three, or do you want to just start with someone does their three, two, one and then the next person does their three, two, one?
[1:05:36] SPEAKER_02: Let's go like number three for everyone, number two for everyone, number one for everyone.
[1:05:42] SPEAKER_00: I think we should like kind of clarify.
[1:05:43] SPEAKER_00: We're saying that if they were to race for your life, do they have to win the race or do they have to podium the race?
[1:05:48] SPEAKER_00: Like they do they just have to do well like a podium, or do they have to win it?
[1:05:51] SPEAKER_02: Just a podium.
[1:05:52] SPEAKER_02: You the the the three athletes that you think have the best chance of poding, yeah, snagging a podium, and if one of Them doesn't, then you get taken out behind the shed.
[1:06:05] SPEAKER_00: Start us off, Greg.
[1:06:07] SPEAKER_02: Cat Matthews.
[1:06:08] SPEAKER_02: My number I'm gonna change things up.
[1:06:10] SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go Magnus Ditlev for my number three.
[1:06:14] SPEAKER_02: Always consistent.
[1:06:16] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me it's Laura Phillip for sure.
[1:06:19] SPEAKER_00: Number two.
[1:06:21] SPEAKER_03: My number two, Martin Van Riel.
[1:06:24] unknown: Oof.
[1:06:24] SPEAKER_02: That's kind of like a That's controversial.
[1:06:27] SPEAKER_02: That's risky.
[1:06:28] SPEAKER_02: He's only done well, he's done two, I guess, because he had that crash at Cosumel.
[1:06:32] SPEAKER_02: But that's kind of like an unproven uh you know, it's a life, Greg.
[1:06:37] SPEAKER_00: Remember?
[1:06:38] SPEAKER_03: I have faith in Martin Van Riel.
[1:06:41] SPEAKER_03: He didn't he win both of his Iron Man's that he did?
[1:06:43] SPEAKER_03: He did he won one and the other one he like crashed and should have won the race.
[1:06:47] SPEAKER_03: So I mean that's a perfect track record.
[1:06:48] SPEAKER_03: I'm playing the odds.
[1:06:49] SPEAKER_03: No, he got second.
[1:06:50] SPEAKER_03: He got second at South Africa.
[1:06:52] SPEAKER_02: He lost to Magnus.
[1:06:53] SPEAKER_02: It's still a podium here.
[1:06:54] SPEAKER_02: Alright, my number two is Kat Matthews.
[1:06:57] SPEAKER_00: Oh I spoiler, I don't have Kat on my list because her race at Kona, it freaked me out.
[1:07:04] SPEAKER_00: Where if it was for my life and there's like it's that race just freaked me out.
[1:07:08] SPEAKER_00: If it wasn't for that, I would I was gonna have Kat as well.
[1:07:11] SPEAKER_00: But if she does well at Kona this year, then yeah, I'd have her on this list for sure.
[1:07:15] SPEAKER_02: That's only one blip in her pretty uh pretty stellar Iron Man racing career, though.
[1:07:21] SPEAKER_00: I know, I know, but it just freaked me out.
[1:07:24] SPEAKER_00: It's uh you're right.
[1:07:25] SPEAKER_00: She was the she was if I was gonna have a number four, it was her.
[1:07:28] SPEAKER_00: Um my number two, Magnus Ditliff.
[1:07:30] SPEAKER_00: I think he's the no-brainer.
[1:07:31] SPEAKER_00: I can't if he's not on your list, I I don't understand it.
[1:07:34] SPEAKER_00: Like he's so consistent.
[1:07:36] SPEAKER_00: He uh yeah, I don't know if anyone's podiumed more consistently than him.
[1:07:40] SPEAKER_02: So it must be Greg's number one, then, right?
[1:07:42] SPEAKER_00: Greg, who's your number one?
[1:07:45] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my number one, Gustav Eden.
[1:07:50] SPEAKER_03: At his best, I still think he's the best at Iron Man Distance.
[1:07:54] SPEAKER_03: You guys will see at Nice when he's on the podium, he's gonna be back back to his old self.
[1:07:59] SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about remember he when he ran away from Christian at Kona?
[1:08:03] SPEAKER_03: People forget, all right?
[1:08:04] SPEAKER_03: That was 2022.
[1:08:06] SPEAKER_03: Gustav's my man.
[1:08:07] SPEAKER_02: And I don't think he would crumble under pressure.
[1:08:09] SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good shout.
[1:08:10] SPEAKER_02: I think Gustav's confident because he's doing this countdown on his Instagram.
[1:08:14] SPEAKER_02: Like he's counting down the days, and I'm like, I just got a little bit of an air of swagger about Gustave.
[1:08:20] SPEAKER_02: It's not a bad shout.
[1:08:21] SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't bet my life on it though, Greg.
[1:08:23] SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
[1:08:24] SPEAKER_00: I'm I I actually think he will have a really good result at Nice.
[1:08:27] SPEAKER_00: I I honestly think he might top five, which might seem crazy, but to put your life on it, it like 2022, he's number one on all of our lists here, a hundred percent.
[1:08:37] SPEAKER_00: But that's uh that's brave, Greg.
[1:08:40] SPEAKER_02: My number one running for my life and the winner of Nice in four weeks, Christian Blumenfeld.
[1:08:48] SPEAKER_00: Oh goes against what I said before.
[1:08:51] SPEAKER_00: All right.
[1:08:52] SPEAKER_00: My number one, uh this might be the craziest call of all, but Hayden Wilde for me.
[1:08:58] SPEAKER_00: He's never raced one, but if there's an Iron Man tomorrow or in six weeks' time, he's winning it, in my opinion.
[1:09:05] SPEAKER_00: So I don't think there's anyone on the w in the world who can beat him over any distance right now.
[1:09:11] SPEAKER_00: I think he's the guy.
[1:09:12] SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe Super League Alex G might beat him, but over any long distance race, 70.3 T100, full distance Iron Man.
[1:09:20] SPEAKER_00: For me, Hayden Wilde's unbeatable right now.
[1:09:22] SPEAKER_00: So I'd back him.
[1:09:24] SPEAKER_00: He's my number one.
[1:09:25] SPEAKER_02: Jax just spent his life on a complete unknown.
[1:09:33] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I wanna I wanna kind of rag on you for this take, but I actually agree.
[1:09:38] SPEAKER_02: And I know it's hard, it's hard to uh he could probably win.
[1:09:42] SPEAKER_00: Uh if Hayden Wilde was racing Nice in three weeks' time, right?
[1:09:47] SPEAKER_00: Or four weeks' time, however long it is.
[1:09:49] SPEAKER_00: Would he would you guys have him as your favorite?
[1:09:54] SPEAKER_03: Maybe not my favorite, but it wouldn't surprise me if he wins.
[1:09:58] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm not I wouldn't be surprised if he wins, but I think the only one who can beat him is himself, you know?
[1:10:03] SPEAKER_03: Like he races too aggressive and takes a corner too hot or something.
[1:10:06] SPEAKER_03: Like this guy races like with fire, and I think in an Iron Man distance, he's his wor could be his worst enemy, but I don't think if he has a good day, I don't think anyone's taking him down.
[1:10:16] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he lives and trains in Andorra, he does heaps of riding with Cam Worth where they go and ride 4,000, 5,000 meters elevation, they do massive days on the bike.
[1:10:25] SPEAKER_00: Like you're telling me he's not gonna go and run a 230 marathon as if he isn't.
[1:10:28] SPEAKER_00: Like a 230 marathon for him is slow, it would feel easy the whole day.
[1:10:32] SPEAKER_00: So as long as he you know nailed his fueling, didn't blow up on the bike, which I don't think he would considering the the the way he trains.
[1:10:40] SPEAKER_00: I uh yeah, I just I'm so confident in him.
[1:10:42] SPEAKER_00: And I reckon he's gonna win Kona 2026, by the way.
[1:10:45] SPEAKER_00: I I just I yeah, I'm just so high on him.
[1:10:47] SPEAKER_00: Anyway, uh so that's uh that's the three athletes that Greg, Apo and myself would uh would would put our life on.
[1:10:54] SPEAKER_00: To recap, Greg's was three Cat Matthews, two Martin Van Rieel, one Gustav Eden.
[1:10:59] SPEAKER_00: Apo's was three Magnus Ditliw, two Cat Matthews, and one Christian Blumenfeld and mine were three Laura Phillip, two Magnus Ditliv, and one Hayden the Goat Wild.
[1:11:09] SPEAKER_00: Apo, Greg, fun episode.
[1:11:11] SPEAKER_00: The hot seat was uh was tricky, but fun.
[1:11:14] SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we'll bring that back.
[1:11:16] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for doing that, Greg.
[1:11:17] SPEAKER_00: Uh let's let's do it all the week all again next week, boys.
[1:11:19] SPEAKER_02: Sounds good, mate.
[1:11:20] SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Jack.

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