# Things Get HEATED Over The Hayden Wilde Shoe Drama

An episode of [The Triathlon Hour](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1595443343), 8 Sep 2025, 1 h 10 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2640942/episodes/19698031-things-get-heated-over-the-hayden-wilde-shoe-drama.mp3

Day 2 of daily podcasts for this week leading into the Ironman World Championships is here and the boys start things off by addressing the Hayden Wilde shoe drama and it gets quite heated and there are some very, very strong opinions. Tommy Fury’s drama is next up and then the boys dive into talking about lots of Ironman World Champs topics. Pillar: Use the code TTH to get 15% off your first order with Pillar Performance at Pillar Performance or use The Feed for North American customers Patreon: We put a lot of time & energy into bringing you this podcast every week and have done for 4 years now. If you appreciate what we do, we would love your support and you can do so for less than the cost of a coffee per week on Patreon - Patreon link

## Transcript

[0:26] SPEAKER_00: It's good to be back here, day two of our Iron Man World Champs week, where we're doing a podcast every single day until we get to race down the weekend.
[0:35] SPEAKER_00: Yesterday it was just me and Greg in the driver's seats, but today there's four of us.
[0:39] SPEAKER_00: We'll start with him.
[0:40] SPEAKER_00: Greg's here again.
[0:41] SPEAKER_00: Greg, welcome back for day two.
[0:43] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
[0:44] SPEAKER_02: I'm not the star of the show anymore.
[0:45] SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty much fourth in command, but happy to be back.
[0:48] SPEAKER_00: And we have Apo, the champ, is here.
[0:50] SPEAKER_00: 20 Iron Man, 70.3 victories.
[0:53] SPEAKER_00: He's won three in a row since he became a host on this podcast.
[0:57] SPEAKER_00: We strongly suspect that without the podcast, he would have been stranded on 17 for the rest of his career until he retired and became irrelevant.
[1:04] SPEAKER_00: Apo, well done.
[1:05] SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
[1:07] SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Jack.
[1:07] SPEAKER_04: It's good to be here.
[1:08] SPEAKER_04: I caught the red eye flight home last night just so I could record.
[1:11] SPEAKER_04: You know, got to keep the vibes high.
[1:13] SPEAKER_04: And uh yeah, thanks for the podcast.
[1:15] SPEAKER_04: I am now a 20-time champion of 70.3s.
[1:20] SPEAKER_00: How does it feel?
[1:21] SPEAKER_00: Like you've just won a race yesterday.
[1:22] SPEAKER_00: Like are you on top of the world today?
[1:24] SPEAKER_00: Where are you at?
[1:26] SPEAKER_04: Not really.
[1:26] SPEAKER_04: It's back into regular life.
[1:28] SPEAKER_04: Woke up at, you know, 6 a.m.
[1:30] SPEAKER_04: after sleeping about four hours after getting home at one and uh you know, straight into dad duty, you know, that it it never stops, mate.
[1:39] SPEAKER_04: You uh, you know, straight into uh straight into normal life.
[1:42] SPEAKER_04: It's uh yeah, business as usual.
[1:45] SPEAKER_00: And where do you rank yourself in the greatest of all time now that you've won 20?
[1:52] SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of people that I have won more than than me, I think.
[1:55] SPEAKER_04: You know, Lionel, um Terenzo Bazzoni, that's a bit of an old name that people might not know, but he's won a bunch.
[2:02] SPEAKER_04: Joe probably knows Torenzo, Tim Reed, and even like Paula Finlay, Ellie Salthouse.
[2:07] SPEAKER_04: I think there's a few people up above 20 that are ahead of me.
[2:10] SPEAKER_04: So uh, you know, feels good, but yeah, there's definitely uh definitely more people that have won more.
[2:15] SPEAKER_00: And Apo just hinted at it, but we've got a fourth member here, the one, the only Joe Skipper, joins us for his debut on the Monday podcast.
[2:23] SPEAKER_03: I'm hoping some of the Apo magic rubs off on me just in time for the weekend.
[2:28] SPEAKER_03: He was desperate to get on.
[2:30] SPEAKER_04: He wanted the uh he wanted the good vibes.
[2:32] SPEAKER_03: I did want the good vibes, mate.
[2:34] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[2:35] SPEAKER_00: And uh we did think that we'd better make a point of it that we actually have six hosts as well because both of Joe's dogs do tend to get themselves involved at the podcast at some point.
[2:44] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we've gone from two hosts yesterday to six today.
[2:49] SPEAKER_04: It's not a podcast with Joe if you don't hear the dogs in the background.
[2:52] SPEAKER_04: It uh it's character, it adds to the uh adds to the ambience of the show.
[2:57] SPEAKER_02: It's giggling and the dogs.
[2:59] SPEAKER_02: That those are my favourite parts of the Joe Skipper series uh so far.
[3:02] SPEAKER_02: Just constant.
[3:04] SPEAKER_00: And people make a lot of jokes that Joe says the word like a lot, like he just keeps saying like, you know, like I've never noticed that.
[3:13] SPEAKER_00: It's probably the most common comment we get about Joe's podcast.
[3:16] SPEAKER_00: All right, boys.
[3:17] SPEAKER_00: We didn't talk about this situation on yesterday's podcast because we wanted to wait till we're all here.
[3:22] SPEAKER_00: If the group chat has been anything to go by, this could be quite a fiery discussion.
[3:28] SPEAKER_00: The Hayden Wild shoe drama.
[3:30] SPEAKER_00: Apo, Greg, put your hand up.
[3:32] SPEAKER_00: Who wants to kick us off?
[3:33] SPEAKER_02: Oh, Apo said he wasn't gonna sit on the fence, so I think the fans are anxious for that, so I think he should uh kick us off.
[3:39] SPEAKER_04: I'm uh yeah, I mean, I think we all love Hayden on this show.
[3:43] SPEAKER_04: We've sung his praises.
[3:45] SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, I mean, there's no real way around this one.
[3:51] SPEAKER_04: I think it's almost I mean, I hesitate to say unforgivable.
[3:55] SPEAKER_04: I don't want to be dramatic, but I think it just shows it's pretty careless and shows a pretty blatant disregard of the rules.
[4:03] SPEAKER_04: And I know he put up that Instagram post kind of pleading ignorance he didn't know and things like that, but I'm I I kind of want to call bullshit on that because the hot mic picked up that he clearly knew he was doing something wrong because he was pretty quick to take them off, hide them.
[4:20] SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I don't know who he was talking to on that hot mic, um, but I think they both knew that they were doing something wrong.
[4:28] SPEAKER_04: So I think, you know, the Instagram post didn't pass the sniff test, in my opinion.
[4:32] SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I just think it's pretty careless and a little bit disappointing from someone like Hayden, who we've, you know, i in the past really enjoyed his racing, and I think we've sung his praises after London and Fred Just.
[4:46] SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I mean I'm not sitting on the fence with this one.
[4:50] SPEAKER_04: I think it's uh I just think it's pretty poor form.
[4:52] SPEAKER_00: Sam, just build a scene for us.
[4:54] SPEAKER_00: So for there might be people who haven't seen the hot mic, they don't know what you're talking about.
[4:58] SPEAKER_00: Just paint the image for us and what was said and what transpired.
[5:02] SPEAKER_04: So the gist of it is that um ASIC brought out a new super shoe that is not approved to be raced in um until September 11.
[5:15] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, September 11.
[5:16] SPEAKER_04: So a couple of days, but obviously London and Fresjus were before that September eleven date.
[5:21] SPEAKER_04: Um so they weren't approved to be used, and Hayden and Sam in London, Sam Long used them.
[5:29] SPEAKER_04: Um and yeah, basically he raced in them one, and then after the race, there was kind of a microphone put in his face, and you could hear him kind of talking to somebody off camera.
[5:42] SPEAKER_04: I wasn't sure who he was talking to, but yeah, basically Hayden was saying, Oh, don't worry, I'm gonna take them off and hide them.
[5:48] SPEAKER_04: And uh yeah, they never check these shoes anyway, so it should be sweet.
[5:52] SPEAKER_04: Um I'm paraphrasing there a little bit, but yeah, pretty much just saying we need to hide these shoes, they never check, we'll be sweet.
[5:59] SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I mean he must have known the camera was in his face.
[6:04] SPEAKER_04: Like, why would you say that with a microphone and a camera pointed straight in your face?
[6:09] SPEAKER_04: So I mean, yeah, it's disappointing.
[6:12] SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'm firmly on the fence off the fence and think it's poor form.
[6:18] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you think it's poor form, you're you've hopped off the fence, which we love, you're not you're not in agreement with what Hayden's done, but he hasn't faced any sanction for this.
[6:27] SPEAKER_00: Like he he hasn't coped a big fine, he didn't lose all of the points from that race.
[6:31] SPEAKER_00: What do you think should happen or should have happened?
[6:34] SPEAKER_04: I mean, it seems rough, but I feel like almost a DQ, a disqualification, is needed.
[6:40] SPEAKER_04: Like it just you can't, as World Triton, you can't set a precedent that athletes can just break rules and get away with it.
[6:46] SPEAKER_04: I mean, they almost need to set an example here because if they just allow this one to slide, what else will they allow to slide at further races?
[6:54] SPEAKER_04: You know, I think they need to set a precedent here and just crack down on these rules.
[6:59] SPEAKER_04: And I mean, it is partly, I think, World Triton's fault as well for not checking the shoes, maybe.
[7:04] SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, I don't know.
[7:07] SPEAKER_04: I just don't like the optics of this one.
[7:09] SPEAKER_04: And um and that's not even I don't know if you guys know about the the water bottle shenanigans as well.
[7:15] SPEAKER_04: Um, but that's just another thing that kind of you know goes.
[7:18] SPEAKER_03: What's the water bottle shenanigans?
[7:20] SPEAKER_03: Is that with Hayden as well or someone else?
[7:22] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so you know how um there's these rules now that water bottles can't sit 25 centimetres back from your armrests.
[7:31] SPEAKER_04: Um you know how people were running the water bottles like really far back on their chest.
[7:36] SPEAKER_04: There's now a limit that it can't be 25 centimetres behind the end of your extension or the end of your armrests.
[7:44] SPEAKER_04: And what's happened is Hayden has put a water bottle on his frame with an empty water bottle holder on his extensions, and when he's gone riding out on the race, he's removed the water bottle from his frame and put it on the extensions because obviously it's faster, but it breaches that 25 centimeter limit.
[8:05] SPEAKER_02: Bro, how much more lame can this guy get, honestly?
[8:08] SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm so tired of like that's obviously bending the rules, like and uh 100% he should be DQ'd.
[8:15] SPEAKER_02: Like, he look this this is a blatant cheating.
[8:19] SPEAKER_02: This man should 100% be d disqed, DQ'd, should probably get fined.
[8:24] SPEAKER_02: This water bottle thing, like it just pisses me off.
[8:26] SPEAKER_02: He's obviously trying to bend the rules.
[8:27] SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm gonna read the best comment that I saw just from Phil Guiman, who you guys might know.
[8:33] SPEAKER_02: If dude is blatant about breaking rules as long as nobody notices, what's he up to behind closed doors?
[8:39] SPEAKER_02: And that sums up my position too.
[8:41] SPEAKER_02: I don't like it, I don't like it at all.
[8:44] SPEAKER_02: I think it's super suspect, and that's my stance.
[8:48] SPEAKER_02: Lame.
[8:49] SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so do you guys think in your mind, so Greg and Apple, and I'm keen to get your opinion, Joe, you both very clearly think Hayden is purposely taking advantage of rules, and he's not doing it ignorantly.
[9:01] SPEAKER_00: Like you're not, you're not there's no part of you that thinks, oh, he just didn't know about the water bottle rule, or it's an honest mistake, and these are the shoes that he had, and you know, he didn't think it was that big a deal.
[9:13] SPEAKER_00: You guys think he's thinking, I'm gonna try and gain an advantage here by bending or outright breaking the rules.
[9:20] SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
[9:21] SPEAKER_02: I think though the empty water bottle, and that that's pretty clear, right?
[9:25] SPEAKER_02: Because you wouldn't put a water bottle on your frame and then you wouldn't move it.
[9:28] SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's I think that's pretty clear.
[9:31] SPEAKER_03: Honestly, before the the um Apo was saying about the shoe one, I honestly didn't really think much of it.
[9:36] SPEAKER_03: I was just like, oh, whatever.
[9:37] SPEAKER_03: But then uh after hearing uh Greg's thing, I do kind of feel think that when he said about that Phil Guyman quote, it does make you think, you know, if someone's doing like blatantly cheating in behind closed, you know, out in public, what are they doing behind closed doors?
[9:52] SPEAKER_03: So you do kind of it does kind of make you think that with some with some people, but with the shoes, I was kind of like at first when I saw it, I was kind of like, oh whatever, they're gonna be approved anyway, and like it's only a shoe.
[10:04] SPEAKER_03: Um, but then I guess it's more about the message, isn't it?
[10:07] SPEAKER_03: If you know that they're not supposed to be used, and then you've deliberately used them even though you know that they that you know, even though you know it's cheating, that's kind of it's kind of like the mentality behind it rather than the actual crime, isn't it?
[10:18] SPEAKER_03: You know, um, which is a bit of the problem.
[10:21] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the shoe itself, so the shoe that he's wearing is the ASICs Metaspeed Ray Tokyo.
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: It's a newer super shoe, but it's been being worn by pros um for like prototypes and testing and in races in the running world for a while.
[10:35] SPEAKER_00: The difference between it and the the models that are approved, which are the edge and the sky, is just that it uses uh the only the one foam, this this flam called FF Leap, whereas the other two use uh a dual foam, so they use FF Leap and FF Turbo.
[10:51] SPEAKER_00: Um so the the the ray is just like a little bit lighter, a little bit softer and bouncier and spongier.
[10:57] SPEAKER_00: I think the way I've heard it described by athletes that I know who have used both is that the Metaspeed Ray Tokyo that Hayden's been wearing feels very fast at a 5 or 10k.
[11:06] SPEAKER_00: Not everyone could tolerate it for a half or a full, and then the edge in the sky seem to be a little bit more stable and a little bit more you know durable for the course of a half marathon or a marathon.
[11:17] SPEAKER_00: So that's the differences in the shoe.
[11:19] SPEAKER_00: The ray itself, it doesn't break any of the other guidelines, like it's it's 39.5 mil, it only has one plate.
[11:25] SPEAKER_00: So it's not like the shoe itself is cheating, he's not getting an advantage by wearing that shoe.
[11:30] SPEAKER_00: It's not like some super shoe that that other people don't have shoes that are just as good.
[11:35] SPEAKER_03: Why doesn't it get approved straight away?
[11:37] SPEAKER_03: What's the deal with it being on the September 11th?
[11:39] SPEAKER_03: Why is it not like instantly?
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: It's all about release dates, Joe.
[11:42] SPEAKER_00: So like um there's prototype rules as well.
[11:46] SPEAKER_00: So you have to have a shoe that is um available to consumers.
[11:50] SPEAKER_00: So you can't because otherwise, what can happen in professional running, and there therefore the rules that we take up is athletes get given one of one shoes that are made specifically for them that no one else has access to.
[12:01] SPEAKER_03: But what's the problem with that?
[12:03] SPEAKER_03: Like if someone's gonna do that for you, surely that's like quids in for you, isn't it?
[12:06] SPEAKER_00: You know, that's like it's to try and even the playing field, right?
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: It's so that other athletes so athletes can't get an advantage over people they're racing against.
[12:13] SPEAKER_00: So it's to try and make sure that everyone wears the same stuff, give or take, you know, just different brands.
[12:19] SPEAKER_00: But if you want it, you can wear it.
[12:21] SPEAKER_00: So it's like an availability rule.
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, Apo's gonna race in this, I can race in that if I choose to as well.
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: That's where the rule's designed around.
[12:30] SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, like I was saying, the shoe itself isn't cheating.
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: It it just is the timing of it.
[12:35] SPEAKER_00: Like he's warrant worn it a week or two early, and you you can all wear it in a week's time, and it's completely legal.
[12:41] SPEAKER_00: I guess the ethical question is if if there's if there's rules there, we have to uphold the rules, or what's the point of being there being rules, and then you can just keep breaking and be like, Well, look, you didn't you didn't do anything about this, so why would you do anything about this in the future?
[12:56] SPEAKER_00: And what Greg said, and what Apo said, like it's not just this shoe, it's also other things, and what what else might he be doing?
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: Like, these are the two things that Apo and Greg have caught him out on and called him out for.
[13:07] SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else?
[13:08] SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of the big moral issue here, isn't it?
[13:11] SPEAKER_03: So I guess what we're saying is that no one none of us give a toss about the shoe, it's more the mentality behind it, really.
[13:17] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like the the decision in you decided to do it, use something that you knew was effectively cheating, it's banned, isn't it?
[13:25] SPEAKER_03: You know, um the shoe's not that big a deal, is it?
[13:28] SPEAKER_03: If you didn't know it was banned and it was, you know, you're a normal person, none of us would have cared, would we?
[13:33] SPEAKER_03: You know, but the fact that you knew it was banned.
[13:35] SPEAKER_02: No, 100%, Joe.
[13:37] SPEAKER_02: And there were so many comments like, oh, he would have won in Crocs, oh, he would have won in Birkenstocks, it's like, sure, but that's not the message, right?
[13:45] SPEAKER_02: We don't the shoes weren't making him win, we know that, but it's the it's the whole morality and ethics behind it, I think, is the is the bigger issue here.
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I like I mean it's it's tricky though, isn't it?
[13:56] SPEAKER_00: Because they do seem like really little things to me.
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: Like I see both of them and I go, they're kind of little.
[14:02] SPEAKER_00: Like neither of those things are egregious in my mind.
[14:05] SPEAKER_00: I don't think either are like, you know, like let's let's you know put him under public trial for either of them.
[14:12] SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think either alone are that big a deal.
[14:15] SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the where it's tricky, and I do think he would have won regardless, you know, of those two things.
[14:21] SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a really tricky one to kind of form an opinion on because yeah, I mean, he's broken two sets of rules there, neither are the difference makers, they're very little things.
[14:31] SPEAKER_00: Can we really can we really shit on him just because of those two things?
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: Like, do we really have to go after his character just because of those two things?
[14:38] SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's the that's the tricky element of this, because they do seem so small.
[14:41] SPEAKER_03: Don't worry, Jack, I'm sure you'll still be invited around for a cup of tea when you're in Andorra.
[14:49] SPEAKER_00: But you know what I mean, Joe?
[14:50] SPEAKER_00: Like they they're kind of small things, so it's it's like it's tricky to form a suit.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: Like, I know Greg and Apple have been pretty strong on it there, but it it's like I don't know.
[14:59] SPEAKER_00: They're they they they don't they don't seem like that big a deal, but the fact that they are you know outright breaking rules and he seems to know that they are, that's the big issue.
[15:08] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think it was the hot mic that picked him up talking, which that's the damning evidence in all this.
[15:14] SPEAKER_04: Like Yeah, like it's it wasn't ignorance, right?
[15:19] SPEAKER_04: It he knew that he was breaking the rules and he did it purposely.
[15:22] SPEAKER_04: That's where I have the biggest issue.
[15:24] SPEAKER_00: Okay, then so let's let's put it out there.
[15:26] SPEAKER_00: If if we've if we're saying all of this, do you think they're the only two things, or do you think Hayden's doing this in other areas and we just don't know about it yet?
[15:33] SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm not saying that Hayden's doping or anything.
[15:38] SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, because there's like you know, the water bottle thing and doping they're not the same levels of infraction, are they?
[15:46] SPEAKER_04: Like um, you know, so um but yeah, I mean this is something that has been brought to light.
[15:53] SPEAKER_04: And you know, I'm sure there's plenty of things that tons of athletes do that they get away with that nobody knows about that might be, you know, grey areas, but um yeah, I think this is just the first time that we've seen a blatant disregard kind of picked up and and um and yeah, exposed to the public.
[16:12] SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I just think it's poor form.
[16:14] SPEAKER_03: But I guess we only see this one exposed because he's at the front of the race.
[16:18] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[16:18] SPEAKER_03: There's probably a lot of other people to do it.
[16:20] SPEAKER_02: Didn't Sam Long allegedly wear the same shoes in in London.
[16:25] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
[16:26] SPEAKER_02: So I mean, like, Sam should be DQ too, if that's the case.
[16:29] SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's exactly but Greg, remember, he you are on his payroll here, like be careful what you say.
[16:39] SPEAKER_01: You are the same.
[16:41] SPEAKER_02: My stance doesn't change.
[16:42] SPEAKER_02: And I I think Jack brings up that good point, and we're not we're not saying that Hayden's doing other things, it just makes you think, and I I think uh, you know, there's a lot of money on the line, is the thing.
[16:52] SPEAKER_02: And when you bring money in, the top of the sport, people will push gray areas, right?
[16:55] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think we can all agree on that, and and we've seen it, you know, you see slightly suspect things from people over the like this is a little bit suspect because he is breaking rules, right?
[17:06] SPEAKER_02: He was like, we don't love to see it.
[17:08] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think I think there's probably other people doing something super small as well, like this, like bending the rules.
[17:14] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm not saying Magnus did it, but remember when he put the three bottles on the back of his Kona thing and then the rule gets changed, right?
[17:21] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's guys making technical advances, like Joe with his little arrow bars on or some water bottles on his arrow bars, and then they're like, all right, you can't do that anymore.
[17:30] SPEAKER_02: So I I think this is more egregious than that because he knew at least you guys are like you're trying to make technical advances, and then the rule gets you know put back into place and you and you execute.
[17:40] SPEAKER_03: I don't actually think that's been banned at the moment.
[17:43] SPEAKER_03: I just didn't bother using using it since they changed rules.
[17:46] SPEAKER_03: But technically, I don't think that that's actually illegal after current things.
[17:50] SPEAKER_03: I think you could do that.
[17:51] SPEAKER_00: That's because he went the wrong way, Joe, because he couldn't see that was the funniest thing ever.
[17:57] SPEAKER_00: Like everyone was joking, he won't be able to like see where he's going, and he actually went the wrong way.
[18:02] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it was nothing to do with not being able to see where he was going, it was because it was not what fucking around me.
[18:09] SPEAKER_00: And for the record, when I was asking you that question, Appo, I didn't mean to take it to doping.
[18:13] SPEAKER_00: I now understand Phil Guiman, he's the cycling guy, so he's saying, you know, if do if you're willing to cheat in front of everyone like this, does it mean that you're doping behind the scenes?
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: I just meant like other little things.
[18:23] SPEAKER_00: Like, is he taking advantage of other little uh things that we just haven't picked up on yet?
[18:28] SPEAKER_00: And like, can I ask one question?
[18:30] SPEAKER_00: I'll start with you, Greg, and then go around.
[18:33] SPEAKER_00: Do does any part of you respect the hustle of trying to gain an advantage even if it does cross a line, or are you just black and white?
[18:41] SPEAKER_00: No, I don't respect it at all.
[18:42] SPEAKER_00: I think it's bad.
[18:44] SPEAKER_02: I do respect the hustle of the of doing that, like within the It's a actually a super hard question.
[18:52] SPEAKER_02: Like trying to make technological advances that are within the rules, but both things he did are with are not within the rules.
[19:00] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess there's no rule with a water bottle on your frame and then moving it to that spot mid-race.
[19:07] SPEAKER_02: So I guess it's in the same, but I mean the shoe thing, they wore 100% banned shoes, and he knew.
[19:13] SPEAKER_02: So that's where I kind of draw the line.
[19:15] SPEAKER_02: Like I the good athletes, they're always gonna be pushing the limits of that stuff, and you kind of respect almost the professionalism of it.
[19:22] SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm gonna gain one half a watt, and I'm gonna do what I need to do to get that half a watt.
[19:27] SPEAKER_02: And I I can respect that aspect of it, but when it's like when you are disregarding the rules, I think it's um yeah, like Apo said, it none of it really passes the sniff test um for for me as well.
[19:41] SPEAKER_04: I think, yeah, kind of disagree with Greg.
[19:44] SPEAKER_04: Like when when Joe and Magnus and stuff, when they do things to their bike that you know, when Magnus put three bottles on, there was no rules saying you couldn't have three bottles.
[19:53] SPEAKER_04: Like, I feel like that stuff is fine.
[19:55] SPEAKER_04: If you like engineer something that's going to give you a benefit, that's you know, there's no rule stating otherwise.
[20:01] SPEAKER_04: I think that's totally fine.
[20:03] SPEAKER_04: And um, I think Magnus and Joe have both brought in like rules that have been put in place by Iron Man because they've been, you know, quite creative with their setups.
[20:13] SPEAKER_04: I think that's fine.
[20:14] SPEAKER_04: But yeah, if there's a rule stating that this is banned and you can't do it, and you do it anyway, that's where I draw the line.
[20:21] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'd say the same.
[20:23] SPEAKER_03: Like um, if you're doing something that's within the rules and you're just, you know, trying new things and you're getting an advantage, but it's not actually banned, then that's fair play.
[20:31] SPEAKER_03: That's what you want, isn't it?
[20:32] SPEAKER_03: Because it's taking the sport further.
[20:33] SPEAKER_03: But I don't respect the hustle if you're like if you know that something's banned and you do it, because that's just clear cheating, isn't it?
[20:39] SPEAKER_03: You know, if you kind of extrapolated that on a much more extreme scale, then it would basically be like saying, Do you respect the hustle of someone taking EPO and trying to get away with it?
[20:48] SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, if you went to the extreme, it's like, well, of course not, you know, it's like they knew it was banned and they're doing it to cheat, aren't they, and to get in advantage.
[20:54] SPEAKER_03: Obviously, that's a much more extreme, and that's right at the other end, but I don't think anyone would respect the hustle of that, would they?
[21:00] SPEAKER_03: You know, so like I think if you're doing it and it's like and it and it's not banned, and it's like if you're doing something that's not, you know, against the rules, then yeah, definitely like that's that's great, you know, and you're kind of like lead you're at the forefront, you're leading the way, but then not if you're like you know something's blatantly rot like cheating and you're just doing it.
[21:19] SPEAKER_03: I don't you don't I don't respect that.
[21:21] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: And I sort of to go back to Apo's point, I think the hot mic is like the smoking gun in the case.
[21:28] SPEAKER_00: I think without that hot mic, I actually have quite a different view on it because I don't know if he's doing it intentionally or not.
[21:34] SPEAKER_00: But I think it became very clear that Hayden was intentionally breaking that rule.
[21:39] SPEAKER_00: Whether it was to gain an advantage or whether he just has this shoe that he loves and he's like, well, it's gonna be here in a week, and they don't check these things anyway, so why wouldn't I just wear it?
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: I like I really like this shoe, or it's the only shoe I brought because I was gonna race in it today and tomorrow because it's better over the shorter distance.
[21:54] SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to pack two pairs of shoes.
[21:55] SPEAKER_00: Like, I think there's lots of reasons why you might have done it that aren't quite as like You know, they're not they're not as egregious when it comes to rule breaking or the intention behind the rule breaking.
[22:06] SPEAKER_00: Like maybe he wasn't trying to be cunning and sneaky.
[22:09] SPEAKER_00: But the fact that he kind of talked about it like he knew it makes you question like, was this a little bit sneaky?
[22:15] SPEAKER_00: Was this like just a simple lazy human error and and and Hayden didn't mean much by it?
[22:20] SPEAKER_00: Or was he trying to gain an advantage?
[22:21] SPEAKER_00: So I think that hot mic's kind of cost him here.
[22:24] SPEAKER_03: He probably took like uh one pair of shoes, and then people probably said, mate, them shoes that you used in London were banned, and he's like, Oh fuck, I've only got one pair.
[22:31] SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna have to do it anyway.
[22:32] SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be surprised, Joe.
[22:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really wouldn't be surprised either, because especially given that it was the two races, and that is the shoe that you would wear for the short course race if you could pick it.
[22:40] SPEAKER_00: So I I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
[22:43] SPEAKER_00: Um, one word, yes or no.
[22:45] SPEAKER_00: Should Hayden Wilde uh, even now, uh like a week on from the race, should his points and his race um in in T100 French Riviera be DQ'd?
[22:54] SPEAKER_00: Apo.
[22:55] SPEAKER_03: Yes.
[22:56] SPEAKER_00: Joe.
[23:00] SPEAKER_00: One word.
[23:01] SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna say no.
[23:02] SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna say no.
[23:04] SPEAKER_00: Greg?
[23:05] SPEAKER_03: Yes.
[23:06] SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think I'm uh on the no for the DQ.
[23:09] SPEAKER_00: Uh Sam, we're gonna go again.
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: One word.
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: Should he get a big fine for this?
[23:14] SPEAKER_00: Yes or no?
[23:15] SPEAKER_04: No.
[23:16] SPEAKER_04: I think DQ's enough.
[23:19] SPEAKER_04: Oh, definitely not a fine.
[23:21] SPEAKER_00: Greg?
[23:22] SPEAKER_03: Yes.
[23:23] SPEAKER_00: I'm a yes on the fine.
[23:24] SPEAKER_03: If you're a referee, mate, I'd probably be skint by now.
[23:29] SPEAKER_00: I think the fine is the only real deterrent.
[23:31] SPEAKER_00: Like, I think they do it in every other sport.
[23:33] SPEAKER_00: All the big sports in the world do fines for their athletes.
[23:36] SPEAKER_00: Our sport is a rare one that doesn't matter.
[23:38] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they get more money, they get more money, don't they?
[23:42] SPEAKER_03: AW Triple's declaring themselves bankrupt, weren't they?
[23:47] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
[23:48] SPEAKER_00: You know, this is Hayden Wilde.
[23:49] SPEAKER_00: He's managed by David Beckham's manager, mate.
[23:51] SPEAKER_00: Hayden Wilde ain't he ain't he ain't hurting for cash.
[23:54] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he might not be, but others might be.
[23:56] SPEAKER_00: But that's the deterrent, isn't it?
[23:58] SPEAKER_00: I I think the D I would rather see a fine than a DQ, to be honest, but I guess it's just personal.
[24:02] SPEAKER_00: Um, boys, do we want to touch on the Tommy Fury T100 drama?
[24:06] SPEAKER_00: Like, do we do we care enough about this to talk about it?
[24:09] SPEAKER_04: I don't know that much about it, but um I think he like he was outside the time limits or something.
[24:15] SPEAKER_04: I mean good for him.
[24:17] SPEAKER_04: I mean he did a triathon and you know he was maybe a little bit slower than others, but he got out there, he got it, you know, he participated.
[24:26] SPEAKER_04: Um you know, I don't think it's that bad what happened.
[24:31] SPEAKER_04: I don't think it's too dramatic.
[24:32] SPEAKER_04: I mean, the guy's just out there doing a bit of swim, bike, and run.
[24:36] SPEAKER_04: I think, you know, someone of his profile.
[24:39] SPEAKER_04: I think it's good.
[24:40] SPEAKER_04: It brings eyes to the sport.
[24:41] SPEAKER_04: I don't think yeah, I don't think anything wrong happened, uh, per se.
[24:46] SPEAKER_02: I feel like the T-100 does like they're so about promoting like viral moments, and it's like they were like really hyping it up, but you know, you could still be like, hey, Tommy, he missed the cutoff on the bike, but he decided to do the run, like he finished the race, that's amazing, let's celebrate it.
[25:01] SPEAKER_02: But I don't think they were really like forthcoming in that.
[25:04] SPEAKER_02: They're kind of just like celebrating him as as he finished the race, but he technically was DQ'd, right?
[25:08] SPEAKER_02: So it's all a bit weird, but yeah, in the end, I don't think I really have a strong opinion about it.
[25:12] SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, why is this drama?
[25:14] SPEAKER_02: Like, I I I wasn't really quite sure um what what was happening, you know.
[25:19] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I'm not really that bothered about it.
[25:21] SPEAKER_03: I mean, at the end of the day, they just they they were the ones that told him to go onto the run, weren't they?
[25:24] SPEAKER_03: Because he would they were gonna open the road.
[25:26] SPEAKER_03: So, like, I mean, what's he supposed to do?
[25:28] SPEAKER_03: Like, he's out there, he's already got it.
[25:30] SPEAKER_02: Just out there finish with the car, it's just like yo, just riding around.
[25:34] SPEAKER_03: Basically, either start the run or like, you know, you ain't doing it, are you?
[25:37] SPEAKER_03: So, like anyone if you're in that situation would probably just be like, right, I'll go on to the 18k run now, won't you?
[25:42] SPEAKER_03: You know, I saw where he said he only had 10 days to train for it, so it was probably all a last-minute thing.
[25:46] SPEAKER_03: So, like, what's the big deal?
[25:48] SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
[25:49] SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, it he probably didn't even realise it was that big a deal himself because he's not a triathlete, is he?
[25:53] SPEAKER_03: You know, that he's just doing what they're telling him.
[25:55] SPEAKER_00: I think it's one of those weird things that if we get caught up on it, we're we're just we've lost our way in the sport.
[26:01] SPEAKER_00: Like it's not that big a deal.
[26:03] SPEAKER_00: It's this big guy who's got a big presence, comes and does a race.
[26:06] SPEAKER_00: He's actually kind of funny, like how he does those finish line sprints when he looks like the Hulk when he's running, he's genuine like he's doing that for the banter.
[26:14] SPEAKER_00: That's genuine humour that I I find that so funny.
[26:17] SPEAKER_00: He did it again.
[26:18] SPEAKER_03: Do you think you could put him away in a sprint from what his form looked like?
[26:22] SPEAKER_00: You know he doesn't look that fast, does he?
[26:24] SPEAKER_00: He looks like he's kind of running on the treadmill a little bit when he's doing those sprint finishes.
[26:28] SPEAKER_03: You think like he's fast twitch, mate?
[26:29] SPEAKER_03: He's coming from boxing.
[26:30] SPEAKER_03: Like, if you it was a hundred and say a 200 meter sprint, who's your money on in it?
[26:34] SPEAKER_03: You or him?
[26:36] SPEAKER_00: I reckon yeah, I reckon I've got him in a in a 100 or 200.
[26:40] SPEAKER_00: Do you reckon you've got him?
[26:42] SPEAKER_03: 100% without a flipping doubt, mate, from what I saw.
[26:48] SPEAKER_03: I'll never show my face at a draft line again.
[26:53] SPEAKER_03: Come on, give me some credit.
[26:54] SPEAKER_03: I might not have the best season, but fucking hell.
[26:59] SPEAKER_02: Confident shattered going into Nice this weekend.
[27:03] SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, and like I mean, he got I think that the fun I think it's kind of funny.
[27:08] SPEAKER_00: That's what I think of the situation.
[27:09] SPEAKER_00: Like, he comes and does the trython, he doesn't make the swim cut off, so he's already should have been DQ.
[27:14] SPEAKER_00: They put him out in the bike, he gets like 50, 60k in, and they have to pull him off the course, so he doesn't get close, like he's not even close, and then he does that run, which was super slow.
[27:23] SPEAKER_00: Like he he obviously walked parts of it, and then he does that sprint finish at the end.
[27:26] SPEAKER_00: It's all kind of funny.
[27:28] SPEAKER_00: The only like element of seriousness that could be in this is do your opinions change if the T100 are paying him like a large endorsement fee to be there.
[27:38] SPEAKER_00: Does that change anything at all?
[27:39] SPEAKER_03: No, like because at the end of the day, I don't really care about that.
[27:42] SPEAKER_03: Like, if it brings more people and more money into the sport, then I honestly don't care what these influencers do.
[27:46] SPEAKER_03: But the one thing that I actually thought was pretty embarrassing for a bit for him was just how unfit he was, considering he's a professional boxer.
[27:54] SPEAKER_03: Because when I was younger and I was like before I was doing Traflon, seriously, I was doing some boxing and I was training with some people that ended up going professional, and their fitness was so much better than what his was.
[28:05] SPEAKER_03: Like they were good runners, like 33 minute 10k runners, you know, when we were like younger.
[28:11] SPEAKER_03: And I can't believe that he's rate he's competing as a professional boxer and he's that unfit that he's like walking an 18k run.
[28:17] SPEAKER_04: But this wasn't a sprint try, like this is like a T1, that's a long way.
[28:21] SPEAKER_04: Like, it might not be that long for us.
[28:23] SPEAKER_03: He averaged 15 miles an hour on the bike, 14 miles an hour.
[28:26] SPEAKER_03: Like, I go out training sometimes with a 70-year-old that rides quicker than that, and he's not like he's a special sportsman, mate, and he can't and he's riding like slow at the same speed as my dad, who's getting off the couch and getting on a road bike, mate.
[28:39] SPEAKER_03: I mean, like you think a little bit more, wouldn't you?
[28:42] SPEAKER_03: Like, I was expecting a bit more.
[28:45] SPEAKER_00: He's a massive guy, though, Joe.
[28:46] SPEAKER_03: Like, he does no training and there's not much lighter.
[28:51] SPEAKER_03: Come on, like, guys, 14 miles an hour, 15 miles an hour, and a course of that in the hills.
[28:55] SPEAKER_03: Come on, on a decent road bike.
[28:57] SPEAKER_03: That you would expect a bit more, wouldn't you?
[29:00] SPEAKER_00: Molly May was there to celebrate the finish line, and she looked impressed with his sprint finish.
[29:04] SPEAKER_00: Molly May doesn't agree with that.
[29:05] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he probably walked to save himself, didn't he?
[29:08] SPEAKER_03: I mean, if he came around the corner and walking in front of his missus, she's gonna be like flipping out.
[29:12] SPEAKER_03: She flew out there from the pictures on her private jet, didn't she?
[29:14] SPEAKER_03: And she sees her flipping husband like walking across the finish line.
[29:18] SPEAKER_00: He went he cheated on her in the Middle East, and then they broke up, and then she finally gets back with him, and then she sees him walk across the T100 finish line.
[29:26] SPEAKER_00: That might be the end of him, I reckon.
[29:31] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think like a little storm in a teacup, that Tommy Fury situation, just like one of those classic situations where in triathlon we can take things a little seriously that don't need to be.
[29:41] SPEAKER_00: Like, I think this is just a situation to have a laugh about, and if it brought some eyeballs onto the sport, it's probably a good thing.
[29:46] SPEAKER_00: The one thing, I don't know whether it was you, Sam, or you, Greg, who said it, the T-100 could have been a little bit more transparent about it.
[29:52] SPEAKER_00: They clearly tried to hide it a little bit, and then when everyone kicked up the storm, they're like, Yeah, yeah, okay, you got us, you got us.
[29:57] SPEAKER_00: He's dead.
[29:57] SPEAKER_03: But the T100 stitched him up big time because he's been getting so much flippant abuse from everyone on Instagram, and he's probably like, for fuck's sake, they told me to go on the run.
[30:05] SPEAKER_03: Like I was gonna get fucking slandered for it.
[30:08] SPEAKER_03: I thought I was like doing the right thing, and everyone's calling him a cheat, and he's like, the poor fucker just did they told him to.
[30:13] SPEAKER_03: So the T-100 has stitched him up big time.
[30:17] SPEAKER_04: And then he's gonna listen to the trython hour and Joe's fucking saying that he's useless and can't even roll 14 miles anymore.
[30:24] SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying, like, make good more, mate.
[30:30] SPEAKER_00: I personally think that all triathletes or endurance athletes in general should be taking creatine daily.
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[30:48] SPEAKER_00: And unlike most brands, it's informed sports certified.
[30:52] SPEAKER_00: So, as a triathlete, why should you be taking creatine daily?
[30:56] SPEAKER_00: Well, firstly, energy production.
[30:58] SPEAKER_00: Creatine helps replenish ATP, which is the body's primary energy source.
[31:03] SPEAKER_00: This means higher anaerobic capacity and better overall athletic performance.
[31:07] SPEAKER_00: Enhanced recovery is the second thing.
[31:09] SPEAKER_00: Creatine reduces muscle damage and inflammation while promoting faster glycogen replenishment.
[31:16] SPEAKER_00: This leads to quicker recovery between training sessions and races.
[31:19] SPEAKER_00: It's it's probably, in my opinion, the main reason why you should use it.
[31:23] SPEAKER_00: Just the in hugely enhanced recovery that that it it leads to.
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[31:37] SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to get up early and train and then go to work and then um look after your family and spend quality time with the people you care about, maybe even train a second time.
[31:46] SPEAKER_00: I mean, you just need to have the cognitive ability to do so, and creatine definitely helps that.
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[32:06] SPEAKER_00: That's code TTH for 15% off all first purchases.
[32:11] SPEAKER_00: All right, uh, there we go.
[32:13] SPEAKER_00: We've done the first 30 minutes, we've covered the drama and the sport, now it's back to the Iron Man World Championships, which I guess is the point of this week of podcasts every day.
[32:21] SPEAKER_00: Boys, a big one to start.
[32:23] SPEAKER_00: Patrick Lang, the defending Iron Man World Champion, the three-time champ.
[32:27] SPEAKER_00: You know, what do we think about Patrick Lang?
[32:29] SPEAKER_00: He's had a very quiet year.
[32:30] SPEAKER_00: I would say his quietest year in his career.
[32:32] SPEAKER_00: He came seventh at Iron Man Frankfurt, and he came 17th at Iron Man 70.3 Oceanside.
[32:38] SPEAKER_00: Apo beat him that day, Ari Clau beat him that day.
[32:41] SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, this is this is not the resume that you would expect of a guy we're talking about as one of the favorites, if not the favorite, to win the race.
[32:49] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a quiet year, and he's had some injury struggles.
[32:52] SPEAKER_02: Now, I just kind of want to pose a question to you guys.
[32:54] SPEAKER_02: Could injury struggles on the run this year potentially help him in this race?
[32:59] SPEAKER_02: Where he's he'd leveled up his bike to, you know, and yet another level in his down period from running, so he comes into Iron Man.
[33:06] SPEAKER_02: Maybe he's in the best bike shape he's ever been in, and he's as strong as he's ever been.
[33:09] SPEAKER_02: And we all know he can run low 230s, maybe not even with the proper training for six months ahead.
[33:15] SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that's kind of that's kind of the thought in my head.
[33:17] SPEAKER_02: It's like, could Patrick be a better cyclist than he's ever been this year?
[33:21] SPEAKER_02: And that actually might be his ticket to win the world title yet again.
[33:24] SPEAKER_03: I I I kind of think like looking at his results earlier in the year, I don't think with Patrick you can really use that as any kind of gauge because there's been so many years where he's had shocking results in Europe, like and then he's gone to like Kona in the past and won it, you know, and been in the mix.
[33:40] SPEAKER_03: So I don't think any like that you can really take too much into that.
[33:45] SPEAKER_03: But I do think if like you said that he had been injured for the run, I think that actually that would be a hindrance.
[33:50] SPEAKER_03: I don't think that would help like that would probably would help his bike, but I feel like with Patrick, he needs to have that weapon as the run because even if his bike's levelled up, he's not the type of athlete that's gonna be off the front with a buffer, so he's gonna probably be in a run battle, and he's probably gonna end up being with against people like Blue, um Ditlev, um well, Ditlev could be ahead of him.
[34:10] SPEAKER_03: Uh Laidlow will probably be ahead of him even if he has levelled up his bike, so he needs that weapon as the run, and he needs the for him to get a top three or or to win it, I think he's got to be around 230 for the run or under, you know.
[34:21] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he he he has to be in that group that gets off in that like five six minutes back from the leader.
[34:29] SPEAKER_04: Like if Laidlow and Schomberg are off the front, like he has to limit the losses to that like five to six minutes to unleash that run.
[34:38] SPEAKER_04: Um what I want to know is what do you guys think if Christian and um Patrick get off together?
[34:45] SPEAKER_04: Who who outruns who?
[34:47] SPEAKER_00: Patrick Lang, in my opinion.
[34:49] SPEAKER_00: I think Patrick Lang is the best runner off a hard bike in the world.
[34:53] SPEAKER_00: I don't think he's necessarily the fastest.
[34:55] SPEAKER_00: I think there's guys who can run faster than him over the marathon, like maybe Jason West, who's racing this this week.
[35:00] SPEAKER_00: But I think off a hard bike like this, which the Nice bike course is as hard as it gets, I don't think anyone's beating Patrick Lang head to head on the marathon.
[35:09] SPEAKER_02: Well, we saw it last year too.
[35:11] SPEAKER_02: Patrick had that kind of look on blue last year.
[35:14] SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you guys know that clip.
[35:15] SPEAKER_02: He's kind of like running by him at mouth three or four, just being like, why are you going so slow, dude?
[35:20] SPEAKER_02: So I mean Patrick put down a big statement last year.
[35:22] SPEAKER_02: Don't forget, he was under the radar.
[35:24] SPEAKER_02: I mean, no one was picking him to win, even though he's won before.
[35:27] SPEAKER_02: He went out and made a statement.
[35:28] SPEAKER_02: So you can't discount a champion.
[35:31] SPEAKER_02: And uh I for his sake too, I hope he's in the mix.
[35:34] SPEAKER_02: Like it would just be kind of a closing a storied career and showing that you know, as you get to the twilight of your career, like Joe, you can still perform.
[35:42] SPEAKER_02: So Joe, Joe, we're we're crossing our fingers for him as well.
[35:47] SPEAKER_04: I mean, that would be four four wins if he does, which is incredible.
[35:52] SPEAKER_04: Um, and yeah, I mean, I infamously was rooting against him last week.
[35:58] SPEAKER_04: Um, that doesn't mean I don't think he will do well.
[36:00] SPEAKER_04: Um, I I think he is almost one of the favorites.
[36:03] SPEAKER_04: Like, I think this course, like Patrick is really good in Kona, like he's just so good in the heat, but I almost feel like this bike course suits him better than the Kona bike course.
[36:13] SPEAKER_04: Uh like he's light, good power to weight.
[36:16] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[36:17] SPEAKER_00: I think if it's an individual time trial, Patrick does better relative to the field on this bike course than he does at Kona.
[36:23] SPEAKER_00: The thing that Kona is great for with Patrick is he swims really well.
[36:26] SPEAKER_00: He like last year at Kona he had the four fastest swim.
[36:29] SPEAKER_00: And so he can sit in these big bike groups, like what happened, and you know, conserve energy is in quotation marks because it's still really hard to stay with a front group.
[36:37] SPEAKER_00: But in Kona, it's so much more advantageous to be at that 10 to 12 metres in a big working group, isn't it?
[36:43] SPEAKER_00: Whereas on this Nice course, you're not really going to get much benefit, real, really ever.
[36:48] SPEAKER_00: Like maybe the back half of the course, but for the first 120k's, like it's every man for himself, even if you are 12 metres behind someone.
[36:56] SPEAKER_00: So I think that's kind of something that could potentially hurt him.
[36:59] SPEAKER_00: But he came second here last time when the race was here in 2023.
[37:03] SPEAKER_00: Sam Laidlow beat him with what was like one of the most insane performances I've ever seen.
[37:07] SPEAKER_00: And I think we lose sight of just how good Patrick Lang's run is because he only goes and races the biggest races.
[37:14] SPEAKER_00: He doesn't go and race those races that have super fast marathons and he and he goes easy on the bike just to try and run as fast as he can on the marathon.
[37:22] SPEAKER_00: Because at the Iron Man World Champs in 2023, where he came second on this course, he ran 232.
[37:28] SPEAKER_00: The next fastest run in the top five was Leon Leon Chevalier, who came fifth, and he ran 239.
[37:34] SPEAKER_00: So he ran seven minutes faster than the next guy in the top five.
[37:38] SPEAKER_00: And then last year at Kona, he ran 237.
[37:42] SPEAKER_00: The next fastest run of anyone in the top five was Magnus Ditliff, who came second, who ran 246.
[37:48] SPEAKER_00: So he's ran seven and nine minutes faster than anyone else in the top five in the last two editions of the Iron Man World Championships.
[37:54] SPEAKER_00: So if he does that again, all he needs to do is keep all the big hitters within six minutes of him off the run.
[38:00] SPEAKER_00: And history says he's a real chance to win the race.
[38:04] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[38:04] SPEAKER_04: It's just if he can limit that loss to six minutes, you know.
[38:07] SPEAKER_04: Like Laidlow's hungry, like these young guys, like Laidlow, Schomberg, um, they're they're like I said it a few weeks ago, they just have the absolute like most disrespect for the distance, the course, the they just throw it to the wind, and I love it.
[38:22] SPEAKER_04: Like I love to see it, and like yeah, it's kind of like it makes for great viewing, and I think, but yeah, you're right, Jack.
[38:28] SPEAKER_04: If Patrick can limit that loss to that five to six minutes, I think he's in a real real good spot.
[38:33] SPEAKER_04: But yeah, these guys, like they're just they just send it, they don't worry about what's coming, they're just living in the moment.
[38:39] SPEAKER_00: I think that could be the magic number though, when we're watching the race.
[38:42] SPEAKER_00: Like, can Patrick Lang keep Sam Laidlow, Magnus Ditliff, Rudy Von Berg, um maybe Christian Blumenfeld and Gustav Eden?
[38:50] SPEAKER_00: And can he keep and Leon Chevalier?
[38:52] SPEAKER_00: Can he keep guys like that six minutes um ahead of him or less?
[38:56] SPEAKER_00: I think if it's that eight minutes, then it's probably gonna be tough for him.
[39:00] SPEAKER_00: But so just just something to watch while we're while we're while we're like kind of tracking the race.
[39:04] SPEAKER_00: Do you guys expect him to have the fastest run of the day overall, or just of the contenders, or do you think like someone like Jason West might be able to run faster than him?
[39:12] SPEAKER_04: Or Matt.
[39:12] SPEAKER_04: I think Matt Hanson might have the fastest run.
[39:15] SPEAKER_04: He's been running really well this year.
[39:17] SPEAKER_04: Um, but of the contenders, I think Patrick will be the front runner for the fastest run.
[39:21] SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I think there might be a couple of guys that ride a bit slower, like Jason and Matt Hansen, that could run.
[39:28] SPEAKER_04: Like I think Matt Hansen could break 230 again, like he did it at Roth.
[39:32] SPEAKER_04: I think he could do it again um in Nice.
[39:35] SPEAKER_02: I think Jason's gonna run the fastest, personally.
[39:37] SPEAKER_02: I mean, he ran 237 at placid, which we know is a a hard course, and he was on pace.
[39:44] SPEAKER_02: I mean, whatever, on pace means you didn't execute it, but it was like it was deep into the marathon.
[39:49] SPEAKER_02: He was on that low 230 pace.
[39:50] SPEAKER_02: So I wouldn't be surprised if Jason dips under 230.
[39:53] SPEAKER_02: Um, he's I guess it's gonna be a bit hot, and I think Jason thrives on that.
[39:58] SPEAKER_02: I mean, he just ran what was it, 111 in Louisville the other weekend?
[40:02] SPEAKER_02: Like, that was six minutes faster than Trevor Foley, and you know, and he thrives in any hot type of conditions as well.
[40:08] SPEAKER_02: So um that that's my money if I had to be a Betty man, I would say Jason is the fastest run, but whether that's running himself into ninth or or closer, well that that's really the question.
[40:18] SPEAKER_00: The last two editions of the world championships again, Patrick Lang, he's had the fastest run, and Matt Hanson's had the second fastest in both of them.
[40:26] SPEAKER_00: So at Nice this time, like in 2023, Patrick ran four minutes faster than Matt, and at Kona last year, he ran, I think it was a seven minutes faster than him, something like that.
[40:37] SPEAKER_00: So Patrick does have the the the the chips on uh Matt Hansen, the last two editions, but Jason West, I I agree, Greg.
[40:44] SPEAKER_00: I think he could be a bit of a wild card, especially if he doesn't really hammer the bike.
[40:48] SPEAKER_00: That'll be that'll be interesting.
[40:49] SPEAKER_00: Um boys, Patrick Lang.
[40:52] SPEAKER_00: Let's give all of our like kind of l pass or fail to Greg.
[40:56] SPEAKER_00: Do you want to start us off?
[40:57] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it's it's always interesting to say this because I don't know exactly what they think in their own mind, right?
[41:03] SPEAKER_02: I mean, Patrick, I would think a f a pass as like a top five for me.
[41:08] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I still think it's great.
[41:09] SPEAKER_02: He probably wants to win the race, but I would say a top five is like kind of a passing grade.
[41:14] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, outside the top five, I would not expect more, but it's probably not what he wants.
[41:20] SPEAKER_02: Um so that that would probably my cutoff for for Patrick.
[41:23] SPEAKER_04: I think top three.
[41:24] SPEAKER_04: I think Patrick will be happy with a top three.
[41:27] SPEAKER_04: I think if he's off the podium, he'll be disappointed.
[41:29] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think the same.
[41:30] SPEAKER_03: I I I think he's he's wanting a podium, definitely.
[41:33] SPEAKER_03: If you've if you were second two years ago, won it last year, you're not going there, not looking to get on the podium, are you?
[41:39] SPEAKER_03: And he beats for the big races.
[41:41] SPEAKER_00: I actually I I kind of like what you're saying there, Joe.
[41:44] SPEAKER_00: I think a pass mark for Patrick is second or first.
[41:46] SPEAKER_00: I even think third's a fail for Patrick Lang.
[41:49] SPEAKER_00: That might just be my own high expectations of him.
[41:51] SPEAKER_00: I have him as second favourite to win the race behind Sam Laidlow.
[41:55] SPEAKER_00: So for me, uh a pass mark for for Patrick is second or first.
[41:59] SPEAKER_00: And probably third isn't a fail, it's probably like an okay day, but fourth or or further back is a fail for Patrick Lang in my mind.
[42:06] SPEAKER_00: And uh I guess that's just what happens when you're the three-time champ.
[42:10] SPEAKER_00: Expectations are high on you.
[42:12] SPEAKER_00: Okay, um, our next topic about Kona.
[42:15] SPEAKER_00: Who is the most underrated athlete who could podium coming into this race this weekend?
[42:20] SPEAKER_00: Apo, kick us off.
[42:22] SPEAKER_04: I mean, it depends how deep you go with um underrated.
[42:26] SPEAKER_04: Like, I know some people put underrated athletes and it's like, man, this guy's like got top tens and things like that.
[42:32] SPEAKER_04: But I think someone like uh, you know, if I'm scrolling through the list and find um, you know, someone that not no one is really talking about is maybe um Finn Grosser Fresse.
[42:46] SPEAKER_04: I think that's uh I think that's spot on German pronunciation there.
[42:49] SPEAKER_04: I mean, this guy's won two Ironmans this year.
[42:52] SPEAKER_04: Like not many people win two Ironmans in a year, and you know, there haven't been um pro series Ironmans haven't been like the biggest ones, but like this guy in Iron Man Copenhagen around a 232, um, like that's that's flying, you know.
[43:07] SPEAKER_04: Um I think he's someone that is maybe not underrated, but a little bit unheard of.
[43:12] SPEAKER_04: And I think he could surprise.
[43:14] SPEAKER_04: I think a podium would be like maybe a bit of a stretch, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him, you know, a little bit further up um than a lot of people suspect.
[43:23] SPEAKER_00: He came sixth at Challenge Roth as well, Apo.
[43:26] SPEAKER_00: So he beat like Daniel Backegaard, Matt Hansen, Zach Cooper, he beat Joe.
[43:30] SPEAKER_00: Joe, what'd you came 14th or 15th that day?
[43:32] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've raced against him a couple of times this year.
[43:35] SPEAKER_03: Like I was in Copenhagen, uh, Apo Um when he uh won that, and he was really solid.
[43:42] SPEAKER_03: Like he he swims right at the front, like he got out with uh Lucas uh Voigt in uh Austria, the first one that he won.
[43:49] SPEAKER_03: Then he uh was he's really good tactically, it seems.
[43:52] SPEAKER_03: Like in Austria, he was in the group for the first lap, didn't ride that hard, and then hit must have hit it hard on the second lap and massively negative split at it, and then didn't run super well, but run enough to to uh to win on the day, so we might have been holding something back.
[44:05] SPEAKER_03: But then in Copenhagen, he rode, he swam at the front, rode really quick.
[44:08] SPEAKER_03: There was a lot everyone rode hard that day, like some of the power numbers and stuff.
[44:12] SPEAKER_03: And like I know what I was riding before I punched it, it was really good.
[44:15] SPEAKER_03: And uh talking to a few guys, everyone seemed like they rode really hard.
[44:18] SPEAKER_03: So to run a 232, like for instance, um that Zach Cooper that you mentioned, I know he averaged 335 watts, like average, like uh power not even normalized, and he only rode like a minute or two quicker than that Finn.
[44:31] SPEAKER_03: And uh so to run a 232 off that, you know, it was impressive.
[44:35] SPEAKER_03: I think the run was only like 200 metres or something like that, short, two or three hundred metres, which is like pretty much there or thereabouts, isn't it, for an Iron Man?
[44:42] SPEAKER_03: Because in a lot of them, you know, they can be six, seven hundred metres short, can't they?
[44:46] SPEAKER_03: Which is like two and a half minutes.
[44:47] SPEAKER_03: So that was a legit, you know, sub-235 marathon if it had been bang on the distance.
[44:53] SPEAKER_03: So it was impressive, it was a great performance.
[44:55] SPEAKER_03: The only thing that would put me off him would be is he cooked from doing from actually finishing and racing hard in free Iron Man's?
[45:02] SPEAKER_03: Like that one in Copenhagen came down to the well for him.
[45:04] SPEAKER_03: Like it was him and Matthias Peterson, and I think he only caught him with about a K 1500 metres to go.
[45:08] SPEAKER_03: So that would have been like it wasn't like he had a buffer and he could like knock it back the last five, six K and just jog it in.
[45:15] SPEAKER_03: That would have been like you'll go into the well and you don't even know if you can you can get it.
[45:18] SPEAKER_03: So how much is that taken out of him?
[45:20] SPEAKER_00: Joe, speaking of, who's your who's yours?
[45:24] SPEAKER_03: Mine?
[45:25] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who's your the segment that we're doing?
[45:31] SPEAKER_00: Who's your uh who's your most underrated person who could uh potentially podium?
[45:35] SPEAKER_03: Podium.
[45:36] SPEAKER_03: Um I'm liking the look of that Zach Cooper, you know, like how much quicker he's getting.
[45:41] SPEAKER_03: The only thing it depends on for him is whether or not he swims.
[45:43] SPEAKER_03: I think he needs to be if he's out the water within six minutes, and looking at how fast he how hard he's been riding and seeing what he's been doing since he's been out there on some of the climbs, like and you know, seeing how quick he's been going there.
[45:55] SPEAKER_03: For me, I think he's underrated because you know, I think last year or the year before he was racing as an amateur.
[46:00] SPEAKER_03: Um and this year, every Iron Man he's been getting significantly closer to the front and riding like 10 watts harder every Iron Man, like I like I said in Copenhagen, he would averaged 335 watts and then run for uh a 235 marathon.
[46:16] SPEAKER_03: And I think if he can do a performance like that but then only lose six minutes in the swim, five six minutes, because Nice is such an honest course, I think he could be right in the mix because if you can run like that, looking at the how everyone ran in Nice last year, like or two years ago, like you said, a 235 was great.
[46:32] SPEAKER_03: And one thing that I think what you notice in these hard races is the guys that sometimes get out the front on the swim and then are able to sit in a pace line can't run well because they're not used to riding that hard.
[46:42] SPEAKER_03: Whereas guys like me, like Zach, and a lot of others that always have to ride hard because we're used to chasing, whether or not it's a hard course or an easy course doesn't make any difference for us because the only way we can get into the race is to ride hard the whole day, and even if that's a flat course or a hilly course, we're like literally you know on it from the start, and you just try and get yourself back into the race.
[47:01] SPEAKER_03: So I've I can guarantee he's gonna run well off the bike.
[47:04] SPEAKER_03: This all depends on whether or not he loses uh how much time you lose in the swim.
[47:08] SPEAKER_03: Because he loses 10-12 minutes, then you're screwed, aren't you?
[47:10] SPEAKER_03: If you lose five, six minutes on a course like Nice, and you can ride and run really well, like um Harper Horso uh two years ago got sixth place and he was off the bike 16 minutes down.
[47:21] SPEAKER_03: So I think you know, uh people do come from behind on this, of course.
[47:26] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean he was 10 minutes behind in the swim in Roth, and it looks like eight minutes in Copenhagen.
[47:31] SPEAKER_02: So trending the right way.
[47:33] SPEAKER_02: You're right.
[47:33] SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, that's interesting.
[47:34] SPEAKER_02: Shout out.
[47:35] SPEAKER_00: All right, for mine Just quickly before you do, Greg, Jonas Schomberg is not underrated.
[47:40] SPEAKER_00: We all know about him by now, but like I think he's I think he's main because of this podcast with how much we talk about him.
[47:46] SPEAKER_00: So just he's off limits.
[47:51] SPEAKER_02: That's disappointing.
[47:52] SPEAKER_02: Uh Jonas, I love you.
[47:54] SPEAKER_02: Okay, so who I'm I'm gonna go with, you know, I had kind of picked someone else, but you know, Antonio Benito Lopez, but he's I don't think he's underrated, I guess.
[48:02] SPEAKER_02: You know, he's like 10th ranked in the world and got second at Texas.
[48:05] SPEAKER_02: So I I'm gonna I'm gonna go with Jason West.
[48:08] SPEAKER_02: And you know, Joe just brought up this point about Arthur Horsau being 16 minutes back off the bike.
[48:13] SPEAKER_02: Like, is there a world where Jason swims front pack and comes off the bike 11 minutes down and runs 228?
[48:20] SPEAKER_02: Like that's a possible outside podium.
[48:22] SPEAKER_03: He does that, I think.
[48:23] SPEAKER_03: So he's getting a podium.
[48:24] SPEAKER_03: If he finishes, if he gets off the bike 11 minutes down and runs 228, I reckon he's gonna be a podium.
[48:28] SPEAKER_02: And you know, Jason's a small guy, he probably climbs well for you know, you know, his his flat TTing obviously is not his strong suit.
[48:36] SPEAKER_02: So maybe this course could cons uh you know suit him.
[48:39] SPEAKER_02: He does come from an ITU background, you know, he rides in the mountains in Boulder.
[48:42] SPEAKER_02: It's not the most technical area in Boulder, but his descending probably isn't bad.
[48:48] SPEAKER_02: I would think it would be decent with his skills that he developed as a youth in in draft legal.
[48:53] SPEAKER_02: So yeah, now that I think the more I'm thinking about it, I'm like, wow, this course might really suit Jason, and uh I'm kind of excited to see what he does.
[49:01] SPEAKER_02: And I think his his placid performance uh was a bit underrated, and you know, hopefully he's built on that, and uh it would be cool.
[49:08] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I like Jason, and I'm an American, so I'm biased, but just throwing down coming from 16th to third or something on the run, that would be a fun, fun, fun to track next this weekend.
[49:18] SPEAKER_03: Greg, I do think that this course suits him a lot more than Placid as well, because the climbs in Placid, like the descents aren't technical at all.
[49:26] SPEAKER_03: They're like, you know, just full gas, you can just send it.
[49:29] SPEAKER_03: Um and also in Nice, the roads are just narrower, the climbs are a bit they're harder, they're longer as well, so it suits someone like him who's a lot lighter.
[49:37] SPEAKER_03: So if this is if there's an Iron Man that is suited to Jason, this is the one, you know.
[49:42] SPEAKER_03: This is like a really good course for him.
[49:44] SPEAKER_03: Like, so if he's gonna do well at a race, it's gonna be this one.
[49:47] SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit annoyed, Greg, because I we didn't write any of these down beforehand, and I had Jason West as mine, so I have to change it.
[49:54] SPEAKER_00: And I agree.
[49:56] SPEAKER_00: I I well I disagree on one point.
[49:57] SPEAKER_00: He won't come down 11 minutes behind Sam Laibo, he'll come down 25 minutes behind Sam Weber.
[50:02] SPEAKER_03: No, he's not gonna lose 25 minutes.
[50:05] SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is, it'll be closer to 25 than 11, and I'm willing to put a tattoo bet on it with you if you want, Joe.
[50:12] SPEAKER_03: Right.
[50:12] SPEAKER_03: So you were basically saying then that if he's more if he's under 18 minutes behind, then I win.
[50:18] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so seven, eighteen.
[50:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[50:20] SPEAKER_00: So if it's closer to twenty-five minutes behind Sam Le though, or whoever comes into the race, into T let's just go.
[50:26] SPEAKER_00: If he's closer to twenty-five minutes than the lead the to the leader into T2 or 11, if it's closer to 11, then I'll get your face tattooed on my body.
[50:38] SPEAKER_00: If it's closer to 25, you get my face tattooed on your body.
[50:45] SPEAKER_04: You're gonna have Cam Worth and Joe Skippers' faces tattooed on your body.
[50:49] SPEAKER_04: I can't get a tattoo, mate.
[50:50] SPEAKER_03: You don't have to do Ferrari.
[50:55] SPEAKER_02: Alright, so Jack, let me ask you a question about that.
[50:57] SPEAKER_02: Christian Hoganhag, would you think he's coming off the bike near the front of the race?
[51:02] SPEAKER_00: I'm worried about that's a good example because I'm worried about Christian Hoganhag because he's just had a baby.
[51:06] SPEAKER_00: He's also been dealing with maybe like, I don't know, injury, sickness, something.
[51:11] SPEAKER_00: And so I don't think he's coming in as fit as what he potentially would have, and maybe what he was earlier in the season.
[51:16] SPEAKER_00: So I think Christian Hoganhag won't come off in the league group.
[51:20] SPEAKER_00: I think he could maybe come off five to ten minutes down on a really good day, but I'm I'm a little I'm a little bit anxious about Christian's race.
[51:29] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because he was 14 minutes behind Christian at at Placid.
[51:32] SPEAKER_02: Um, it looks similar to Foley, um, Trevor Foley.
[51:36] SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I mean, on a World Champ course with Laidlow and the hitters in there, 25 minutes seems extreme, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
[51:45] SPEAKER_02: I'm still I'm still back in Joe, though, so I guess 18 minutes would be that cutoff.
[51:49] SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm picking the under.
[51:50] SPEAKER_02: We can get half a tattoo each, Joe.
[51:52] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm willing to put the tattoo bed on, and that Joe, that offer stands all week.
[51:57] SPEAKER_00: So until the gun goes, that offer stands.
[51:59] SPEAKER_03: I just think with Jason though, like if he's if he's like feels like he's losing a lot of time and he's not having it, he could just fucking sit up and just be like, ah, you know, I'm just gonna like cruise it in, and that's why I wouldn't do it.
[52:09] SPEAKER_03: If I knew he was going full gas the whole way on the bike no matter what, then I would definitely take that.
[52:12] SPEAKER_03: But I could kind of imagine if people start.
[52:15] SPEAKER_03: No, he he ain't like that.
[52:16] SPEAKER_04: He doesn't do that.
[52:18] SPEAKER_04: The amount of times that I've been run down by Jason.
[52:21] SPEAKER_03: Really, like, and he's just feeding himself, like I'll win the race, and if I see him like um starting to lose time and it's getting close to 18 minutes, get on my wheel!
[52:34] SPEAKER_01: I'm not putting him into T2, like, because if he doesn't lose any more than 18 minutes, I don't want to get into T2.
[52:39] SPEAKER_04: You see Joe pull over on the descent, wait for Jason, and then tow him back to T2.
[52:44] SPEAKER_00: But you guys know it won't matter because Joe finished 27 minutes behind laid low on the bike in the last time around.
[52:50] SPEAKER_03: Last yeah, last time when I did that race, I had mechanical problems.
[52:54] SPEAKER_03: I stopped on the descent and had a chat.
[52:55] SPEAKER_03: I was gonna can it there and then.
[52:56] SPEAKER_03: So if I only finished 27 minutes off the bike and I probably lost six minutes on the swim, then there's no way he's gonna lose 25 minutes because I literally, for the last 80, 90ks, was just like set up.
[53:08] SPEAKER_03: I wasn't even in the TT bars.
[53:10] SPEAKER_03: So if I if I only got off the bike 25 minutes down, then he's never he's never getting off the bike 25 minutes.
[53:15] SPEAKER_00: I'll give you some names.
[53:16] SPEAKER_00: I'll give you some names, Joe.
[53:17] SPEAKER_00: Last time the Iron Man World Championships were in Nice, these are some names that Sam Laidlow finished 18 minutes or more in front of.
[53:24] SPEAKER_00: Matthew Marquart, Christian Hoganhag, Ben Phillips, Brent McMahon, um, Joe Skipper.
[53:31] SPEAKER_00: Who else is here that's good?
[53:33] SPEAKER_00: I think uh oh no, Dennis Chevrolet would have DNF, wouldn't he?
[53:36] SPEAKER_02: But there's Brent had like the worst day of his career.
[53:38] SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting pick.
[53:39] SPEAKER_02: But go on, guess go on.
[53:43] SPEAKER_00: Around that 16 seconds.
[53:44] SPEAKER_03: So that wasn't the Matt Marquart that we've seen this year.
[53:47] SPEAKER_03: You know, that was Matt Marquis on a very bad day.
[53:50] SPEAKER_03: That's not Matt Marquis on his best day, is it?
[53:53] SPEAKER_03: That's the thing.
[53:53] SPEAKER_03: You know, you can look at it and it's like he might put that much time in, but you can pick any Iron Man, there'll be loads of people that are 15 minutes down off the bike to the leader.
[54:04] SPEAKER_03: But are they 15 minutes down on their best day, or is it 15 minutes down on a real shit day?
[54:09] SPEAKER_03: That's the thing, you know.
[54:10] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I might have gone extreme with the 25.
[54:12] SPEAKER_00: I I think it's way more likely he's like 12 to 15 minutes down.
[54:16] SPEAKER_00: So I probably would have taken the bet if I was on your side, Joe, and now I'm thinking my head was quite stupid.
[54:21] SPEAKER_03: I don't dare risk it.
[54:22] SPEAKER_03: I haven't got the balls.
[54:23] SPEAKER_00: I'm not putting Greg's face on me.
[54:27] SPEAKER_00: That's not he nearly got 18 minutes on Yarn for Dino at Nice last time around.
[54:32] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but like I say, that's not like the best Yarn, is it?
[54:34] SPEAKER_03: That's Yarn on a bad day, and then he's just cruising it in because he knew he was retiring pretty much after that, isn't he?
[54:39] SPEAKER_03: And he doesn't finish on a D.
[54:40] SPEAKER_00: But I do think I think Laidlow will have some help.
[54:42] SPEAKER_00: Like Jonas Schomberg and Laidlow and Martin Van Riel.
[54:45] SPEAKER_00: I reckon they will hammer out in front.
[54:47] SPEAKER_00: And Jason West has lost like 10 minutes in T100 races to groups like that.
[54:51] SPEAKER_00: So I'm just curious about it.
[54:52] SPEAKER_03: Jonas will help him though.
[54:53] SPEAKER_03: I think Jonas will just go off like he did in Roth and just try and go fucking solo.
[54:57] SPEAKER_03: And I think they'll all be attacking each other and they they won't really be working.
[55:01] SPEAKER_03: Like, because they're all their game plans are against each other, aren't they?
[55:04] SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, Jonas will be thinking Laidlow ran him down in Roth, so I want a bit of a buffer.
[55:08] SPEAKER_03: Martin's not done any running, so he'll probably fancy his chances against Jonas on the run, but won't want to run with Laidlow.
[55:14] SPEAKER_03: So I I think they'll all be like attacking each other and working against each other, not with each other.
[55:19] SPEAKER_03: But then they do have a common threat behind, Christian.
[55:21] SPEAKER_03: So they can't go too easy and get back into the race.
[55:25] SPEAKER_03: I don't think Magnus is that much of a threat.
[55:27] SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's got the run.
[55:29] SPEAKER_03: He needs to get off the bike in the lead, and I just think he's a bigger guy.
[55:32] SPEAKER_03: He needs to put a lot of power, so he's gonna burn through shitloads of carbs, it's gonna hit him on the run.
[55:36] SPEAKER_03: And I I I don't think he I think at best Magnus runs 238, and I don't think unless you get off the bike with a decent buffer, you're not winning with that.
[55:44] SPEAKER_03: I just don't think it's good enough.
[55:46] SPEAKER_03: Like a bigger guy, 80 kilos, 80 kilos is gonna need 400 watts on the long climb.
[55:52] SPEAKER_03: You're gonna burn through a shitload of carbs on that, and you need to then still ride hard on the plateau to keep to because Magnus is gonna be coming from behind.
[55:59] SPEAKER_03: He's not gonna be swimming with Schomberg and Laidlow.
[56:02] SPEAKER_03: So he's gonna have to be closing the gap on them, then he needs to drop them because he's not outrunning those guys.
[56:07] SPEAKER_03: Too much to ask, too much to ask.
[56:09] SPEAKER_04: And Magnus's biggest strength, I think, is like hard bike courses, but not like a huge climb.
[56:16] SPEAKER_04: Like I think, I think Magnus is so good at time trialling on rolling courses like Kona, like Iron Man South Africa.
[56:23] SPEAKER_04: But I think the sustained climb in Nice actually doesn't suit Magnus as much as it suits others.
[56:28] SPEAKER_03: Magnus wants a clock a race where you can ride 45ks an hour, but it's fairly hard, you know, like real draggy, where you can like so you there's a massive component to like the arrow, but then being a bigger guy, it doesn't really suit the lighter guys because the one two percent gradient is still like in the TT bars powering along.
[56:46] SPEAKER_03: So he like he can generate a lot of absolute power, he's got a decent CDA probably for his size, so he can like really put the hurt on people and get the gaps.
[56:54] SPEAKER_03: But on the climbs, when you get like six percent, five, six percent gradient, you climb for 45 minutes.
[56:59] SPEAKER_03: That just doesn't really suit him, I don't think.
[57:01] SPEAKER_03: And like, even though Laidlow and like um isn't like the smallest guy, he's probably still five, six kilos lighter than Magnus, and that's good, he's probably gonna say 30-40 watts on the climb.
[57:10] SPEAKER_03: And uh I think that's that's huge.
[57:12] SPEAKER_00: Magnus did have the second fastest bike at Nice last time around.
[57:15] SPEAKER_00: Only Laidlow rode faster.
[57:17] SPEAKER_03: So then how did he run?
[57:18] SPEAKER_00: He had the fifth fastest run, I think.
[57:20] SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
[57:21] SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna win you, is it?
[57:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but only only Lang and Chevalier in the top five ran faster than him.
[57:27] SPEAKER_03: Faster runners this year, and I think Magnus was in better form going into 2023 than he is this year, from what we've seen in the races.
[57:34] SPEAKER_00: Hard to know, isn't it?
[57:35] SPEAKER_00: Because we haven't seen him a lot this year.
[57:36] SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's when he's raced, he's looked okay, but he hasn't looked at his best, like St.
[57:39] SPEAKER_00: George Lionel almost ripped his soul out of him, I reckon.
[57:43] SPEAKER_03: And Frankfurt, he couldn't break away from the group.
[57:45] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[57:45] SPEAKER_03: Magnus in the past would have dropped that group and rode away.
[57:48] SPEAKER_03: The fact he couldn't ride away from that group on that course, and there is a few climbs in Frankfurt where you can like, you know, if you were strong enough, they're like two-minute climbs, three minutes, you know, where you could really like sprint up 'em and over the top, and uh away you go if you've got the legs.
[58:03] SPEAKER_03: The fact he didn't do that, but then also the big fact that did you see how quick Lionel bridged up to him in St.
[58:08] SPEAKER_03: George?
[58:09] SPEAKER_03: It was mental.
[58:09] SPEAKER_03: Like, what a minute within 10 K's of the clock of bike?
[58:14] SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, that was on what's the hill like there, Greg?
[58:17] SPEAKER_03: You've raced St.
[58:18] SPEAKER_03: George, haven't you?
[58:19] SPEAKER_03: Like, is that like a 5-6% gradient or is it steeper?
[58:22] SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's steeper.
[58:23] SPEAKER_02: I've actually never raced uh St.
[58:24] SPEAKER_02: George, but yeah, I've done it.
[58:25] SPEAKER_02: Apple probably has.
[58:26] SPEAKER_02: It's not a crazy few times.
[58:27] SPEAKER_04: I mean, St.
[58:28] SPEAKER_04: George, the the long hill is towards the end of the bike's uh Snow Canyon, but Lionel had already caught like like there's a couple of steep sustained climbs for a couple of minutes before that snow canyon climb, but it is a hilly bike course for sure.
[58:42] SPEAKER_03: But like the climb at the start where Lionel really took the time out, how yeah, out of the reservoir.
[58:47] SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's not a TT climb, but it's not that long.
[58:52] SPEAKER_04: It's probably only goes for two to three minutes.
[58:54] SPEAKER_00: Wow, so he must have absolutely ripped it up that and there was like a look in Magnus's face when Lionel came past him that I swear I saw that was like, what the fuck?
[59:04] SPEAKER_00: Like, what is happening here?
[59:06] SPEAKER_03: I thought that as well.
[59:06] SPEAKER_03: You can see it.
[59:07] SPEAKER_03: There was like, wasn't there a reel going round where Lionel came past and then he looked over to the side of him, didn't he?
[59:11] SPEAKER_03: And he must have thought, fucking hell.
[59:13] SPEAKER_03: Like, I thought I was pushing decent numbers.
[59:14] SPEAKER_00: Like I reckon that moment might have broken Magnus.
[59:18] SPEAKER_00: Like maybe Magnus will never be the same after that.
[59:21] SPEAKER_00: That's how that's how crazy that was.
[59:24] SPEAKER_00: What's a pass and what's a fail for Magnus?
[59:27] SPEAKER_03: A podium, 100% a podium for a pass.
[59:30] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[59:30] SPEAKER_00: And if you had to put a tattoo bet on it, would you bet that he does or doesn't make the podium?
[59:36] SPEAKER_03: If I had to bet on it, fuck, you know, like he's he is he performed very consistently.
[59:41] SPEAKER_03: I think there's better people that would get the podium, but I'd he's just so fucking consistent, isn't he?
[59:47] SPEAKER_03: And some of them will blow up.
[59:50] SPEAKER_03: Um I would probably bet he'll get the podium because I think he's mentally strong and he'll battle away and probably chip away at a third or something like that.
[1:00:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[1:00:01] SPEAKER_00: Uh for the record, I'll take Nick Thompson as my underdog who could do well.
[1:00:06] SPEAKER_00: I just it was gonna be Jason West, but I can't look past an Australian.
[1:00:10] SPEAKER_00: Ben Hill's the other one.
[1:00:11] SPEAKER_00: I think that the top of the city.
[1:00:12] SPEAKER_03: Oh, you know um Ben Hill got the he got the uh comm on the segment for the fastest um downhill in last year's race, and uh he took a mi la uh last when it time when it was here two years ago, he took a minute out of Camworth who was second on it on the descent.
[1:00:26] SPEAKER_00: Camworth did crash down the descent though, keep in mind, Joe.
[1:00:30] SPEAKER_03: A minute, a minute on there.
[1:00:32] SPEAKER_03: I a friend of mine rode with him on the first descent the other day, and um he said that he went he went down it once, he got the StravaCom and he said, Oh, I guess I don't need to wreck you that anymore.
[1:00:43] SPEAKER_04: He's an ex-pro cyclist.
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_04: He so I don't think he was world tour, but he was definitely like a good domestic Australian pro.
[1:00:51] SPEAKER_04: So he's got the he's got the skills.
[1:00:53] SPEAKER_03: When Bikacha was younger, yeah, he's a good rider.
[1:00:56] SPEAKER_04: I've raced him a number of times in Australia, yeah.
[1:00:58] SPEAKER_04: Super strong.
[1:00:59] SPEAKER_04: I think he was 13th, like a few years ago, when uh two years ago.
[1:01:02] SPEAKER_04: Um, and no one really knows his name.
[1:01:05] SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, it's a good shout.
[1:01:07] SPEAKER_00: Yep.
[1:01:07] SPEAKER_00: Okay, boys.
[1:01:08] SPEAKER_00: I think that'll that'll do us.
[1:01:09] SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty much an hour on the dot.
[1:01:11] SPEAKER_00: The trython hour and two minutes, I think this will be.
[1:01:14] SPEAKER_00: Uh any final words?
[1:01:15] SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we what are we thinking, Joe?
[1:01:18] SPEAKER_00: Uh, like going into the race for you.
[1:01:20] SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, you're you're probably what six days out now.
[1:01:23] SPEAKER_00: What are you what how are you feeling?
[1:01:24] SPEAKER_00: What are you expecting from your own race, that kind of thing?
[1:01:27] SPEAKER_03: I feel great to be honest.
[1:01:28] SPEAKER_03: Um, I won a decent swim.
[1:01:30] SPEAKER_03: Uh did a race yesterday and had like a career best swim, which is a massive positive because um when I was speaking to you, I think, Greg, when we did the the uh T100 commentary, I said to you I was I've had some big gains, didn't I, in four to six weeks, and you were laughing, like thinking, four to six weeks, how much can you really improve in that?
[1:01:45] SPEAKER_03: But um I think I have no, I mean it does sound ridiculous, doesn't it?
[1:01:51] SPEAKER_03: Like it's four to six weeks.
[1:01:52] SPEAKER_03: I'd think if someone was telling me that they were talking shit.
[1:01:55] SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, things have started to go really well in the swim.
[1:01:58] SPEAKER_03: And then uh can you remember, Jack, when I spoke to you and I said I'd been changing my cycling, didn't I?
[1:02:03] SPEAKER_03: And I'd been doing a lot more of that zone two uh riding.
[1:02:06] SPEAKER_03: And uh it seems like it's it's magical that zone two.
[1:02:09] SPEAKER_03: Everyone knows, yeah.
[1:02:11] SPEAKER_03: But I've never done the thing is I'd never done it before, like done a significant block like that, and I found it so hard at the start doing it, like just getting through it, like mentally, physically.
[1:02:21] SPEAKER_03: It was uh brutal.
[1:02:22] SPEAKER_03: And uh last week was the first time I'd actually finished a long ride like it, and I thought I didn't feel completely on my knees.
[1:02:29] SPEAKER_03: But I think because I've like stuck with it for like six to eight weeks now, I've started to finally adapt and get some big gains.
[1:02:36] SPEAKER_03: And then in the half what I did yesterday, I was riding like career best 70.3 power by like 20 watts, and it just felt so comfortable.
[1:02:43] SPEAKER_03: And I was like, This is there's obviously something to this, like a different stimulus has obviously made a big, big difference.
[1:02:49] SPEAKER_03: So I think if I can swim and bike uh as well as what I think I can, I could be in the in the mix and uh yeah, hopefully top 10 if I have a great day.
[1:02:59] SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, uh closer to the top to the to fifth or sixth, something like that.
[1:03:02] SPEAKER_03: That would be uh really good for me.
[1:03:04] SPEAKER_03: But yeah, to get into the top 10, I'd be pleased.
[1:03:05] SPEAKER_03: And I feel like I'm swim biking and running quite well.
[1:03:08] SPEAKER_03: Like yesterday when I did the race, I felt really strong, so couldn't expect any more than that.
[1:03:12] SPEAKER_03: Just need to do it on race day and have some luck on my side.
[1:03:15] SPEAKER_03: Have a bit of the Apo magic, what he's been getting from coming on the show.
[1:03:19] SPEAKER_04: So is the top ten a pass fail for you, Joe?
[1:03:22] SPEAKER_04: Top ten pass.
[1:03:23] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's been real rough the last 18 last uh well, two years really.
[1:03:27] SPEAKER_03: So a top 10 would be a pass.
[1:03:29] SPEAKER_03: Normally I'd be a bit disappointed with that, to be honest, uh world champs.
[1:03:32] SPEAKER_03: But I'd be happy now.
[1:03:33] SPEAKER_03: If you said to me, would you take my would you like if I if I could take it say eighth place or something like that, would you take it?
[1:03:38] SPEAKER_03: I'd say yeah, I'd take that because it would be a massive step up from what I had been doing to in all fairness.
[1:03:43] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and in all seriousness, Joe, we're we're all behind you here at the triathlon now.
[1:03:47] SPEAKER_00: Like we would all love to see you have a big day.
[1:03:49] SPEAKER_03: And if I don't have a good swim, I'm signed, I'm enrolling up to the Greg Harper swim school.
[1:03:56] SPEAKER_03: As long as you don't work, dude.
[1:03:58] SPEAKER_03: Just stop shit.
[1:04:01] SPEAKER_03: Some uh dodgy run trainers.
[1:04:06] SPEAKER_02: All right, well, Joe, let me ask you a question.
[1:04:08] SPEAKER_02: What's the Wednesday uh prep swim?
[1:04:10] SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna ask put Jack on the spot real quick.
[1:04:12] SPEAKER_02: As a coaching from your coaching hat on, you'd go on a little true speed?
[1:04:16] SPEAKER_02: Are you trying to get an ounce of true speed with Joe on Wednesday, on Wednesday before this race to try to like make the front pack or make a pack a little bit easier with a little more get out speed, or do you think it's it's totally done?
[1:04:29] SPEAKER_02: He should just kind of like roll roll through the week.
[1:04:31] SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll actually probably do a hardest one because like in the I mean I don't know what you think of this, but like in the week leading up to uh the race that I did on Sunday, I was like thinking Nice is obviously the big goal, so I wanted to get a decent swim session in for that, but then at the same time didn't want to do too much that I was like gassed for the race on Sunday and then do a shit swim.
[1:04:50] SPEAKER_03: So I kind of wanted to kind of have a bit of an experiment where someone told me about doing some like hundreds and like knocking it right back because I'd kind of got in my comfort zone and when I was doing like hundred reps here, I was always going off 130, 130, and I was talking to a friend who who I used to race against when I was in Swansea commentating on the Iron Man racing, and we were saying that like he was saying that the top guys at the where his brother coaches in Sterling were doing hundreds off like 115 now, and I said, Yeah, you know what?
[1:05:17] SPEAKER_03: I think I'm just gonna need to take the plunge and just knock it down and just keep like forcing myself to try and like do it, you know, when I do these threshold swims.
[1:05:24] SPEAKER_03: So I did a set, I'd been going off 125 and trying to experiment with a few off 120s, which is like a lot quicker than what I had been doing in the past.
[1:05:32] SPEAKER_03: So for this week, I did 10 100s off 130, 8 off 125, 6 off 120, straight through, no extra rest between them, and it was like 24 100s, and I managed to do that, and uh that felt hard when I was on the 120s, but like okay, like I could have quite quite comfortably done 10.
[1:05:49] SPEAKER_03: That was and that was a massive improvement for what I had been doing.
[1:05:52] SPEAKER_03: So I'm thinking I might do something similar again because I felt fantastic on the swim on Sunday.
[1:05:57] SPEAKER_03: So normally I wouldn't swim that hard, that was any.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_03: Like the Thursday before the race, but um and normally I'd been swimming very easy race week, and I wonder if in the past I've just been doing too little in the swim race week that you're kind of a bit lethargic, if you know what I mean, or you just don't, you know, you almost detrain going into it.
[1:06:14] SPEAKER_03: So I think I will do a harder swim, which I wouldn't normally have done, but it seemed to work on Sunday, and I had a great swim.
[1:06:19] SPEAKER_03: I also did something the other day, well, I don't know if you guys have ever done any of this, but like sometimes when you you know when you go to them pro races and they say you can't get you can't do a warm-up and you've literally just got to get in, swim to line, and then go.
[1:06:32] SPEAKER_03: Like, sometimes I've really struggled with them, so I thought the other day at this in a swim session, I'm just gonna do an 800, like, full like pretty hard, uh, with no warm-up, just get in, bang it out, and then c crack on with the rest of the set.
[1:06:44] SPEAKER_03: So I did that with a rare a wetsuit on, and that really helped because the race on Sunday they wouldn't let us in for a warm up.
[1:06:49] SPEAKER_03: Well, they were telling us we weren't, in the end, it turned out we were allowed a few minutes.
[1:06:52] SPEAKER_03: But because I did a really good effort in training before that, that kind of gave me a big confidence boost, you know, knowing like our because sometimes I was getting really stressed, you know, before the race when you weren't allowed to do a warm-up, like, oh shit, I'm gonna feel terrible, you know, this is gonna go bad.
[1:07:05] SPEAKER_03: Whereas it kind of put me in a much more positive mindset, and I feel like that's half the battle, isn't it, with like sport and this, isn't it?
[1:07:12] SPEAKER_03: You know, this uh racing as a or ra racing at any level, you know, it's all about your mindset, isn't it?
[1:07:17] SPEAKER_03: And having a positive mental attitude, and like I was so much more relaxed on the start line knowing that because of what I'd done in training.
[1:07:23] SPEAKER_00: PMAs, Joe, positive mental attitudes goes a long way.
[1:07:26] SPEAKER_00: Um, to wrap it up, uh Apo, like we talked about, he's won 2070 point threes.
[1:07:31] SPEAKER_00: I thought Joe, Greg, and myself could just describe Apo in one word, and then we'll wrap the podcast up.
[1:07:37] SPEAKER_00: So, Joe, one word to describe Apo.
[1:07:41] SPEAKER_03: I wasn't I had two.
[1:07:43] SPEAKER_03: I had two, but like uh now doing it in one, I can't do it.
[1:07:47] SPEAKER_03: Um he's a legend, isn't he?
[1:07:51] SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Joe.
[1:07:55] SPEAKER_02: I I just can't stray away from just ragging on him, so I'm gonna say old.
[1:08:00] SPEAKER_04: You're you're two years younger than me.
[1:08:02] SPEAKER_04: You're not, it's not like you're some spring chicken.
[1:08:04] SPEAKER_04: How old is Greg?
[1:08:07] SPEAKER_00: 33.
[1:08:09] SPEAKER_02: Fucking hell, Greg.
[1:08:09] SPEAKER_02: You're older than me.
[1:08:10] SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, people don't realize because I've just been so shitty for so long.
[1:08:14] SPEAKER_02: I've been good like you guys for so long.
[1:08:16] SPEAKER_00: To be fair, Joe, you do look a solid eight years older than Greg.
[1:08:22] SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna change mine into classy because I think you know, someone in all honesty, like I've got into the sport, you know, probably back in 2020, and I was just like, Apo just seemed like cool, calm, and collected.
[1:08:32] SPEAKER_02: And I like see him at races, and he's just like chill, and he just like executes, and I just thought he'd like a classy pro and just kind of like takes care of his business hasn't always been like a really true professional.
[1:08:42] SPEAKER_02: So that's uh in all seriousness, that's how I feel about Apple.
[1:08:45] SPEAKER_02: That doesn't sound like one word.
[1:08:50] SPEAKER_04: I had to say what's the word then, like you've just discovered Classy.
[1:08:54] SPEAKER_04: I said classy.
[1:08:56] SPEAKER_03: He's gonna make me cry.
[1:08:58] SPEAKER_00: Winner.
[1:08:58] SPEAKER_03: Two times in a row, but you have a spare room in your house, Sam, so Greg can do a tri like a train camp in Boulder, because I think that's what he's kind of like he's trying to butt you up a bit there, and he's thinking like Boulder seems like a nice place to go.
[1:09:09] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, we've got a spare room, Greg.
[1:09:11] SPEAKER_03: You're always welcome.
[1:09:12] SPEAKER_00: Jesus, that's changed a lot over the last two weeks.
[1:09:15] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[1:09:16] SPEAKER_03: All those all those extra uh all those extra races that he's won now.
[1:09:20] SPEAKER_03: He's get he's planned an extension, isn't he?
[1:09:21] SPEAKER_03: Nice, nice, nice new equipment, another bedroom.
[1:09:24] SPEAKER_03: Probably gonna have a hot tub as well, Greg, for when you arrive.
[1:09:26] SPEAKER_03: Like you're gonna be like rubbing, mate.
[1:09:28] SPEAKER_00: Greg rocks up and Apo's just naked in his hot tub.
[1:09:31] SPEAKER_03: I bet he's got whole food now as well, doesn't he?
[1:09:38] SPEAKER_00: Everybody who goes around to Apo's house for dinner now gets exclusively organic Wholefields food.
[1:09:47] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like I said, uh to wrap it up, my one word for Apo is winner.
[1:09:51] SPEAKER_00: We'll uh we'll see you again tomorrow for episode three, day three of our one podcast per day, every day leading into the I Man Well Jenny.

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