# 181. 100 Years of Personal Brand Knowledge in 56 Min

An episode of [THE 505 PODCAST](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1591279585), 13 Nov 2025, 56 min.

Audio: https://podcasts.beehiiv.com/3f71d8b4-2a8c-40eb-8500-c62b76bd9acc/019d43e4-0103-7741-b37f-b81b41dca056/019d43e4-524e-7d99-aca6-f02c6a56f7ea/019d43e4-52df-7c28-905a-721c50a614f2.mp3

The 10 Minute Personal Brand Kickstart (FREE): https://the505podcast.courses/personalbrandkickstart Check out Artlist's Biggest Sale of the Year: https://artlist.io/artlist-70446/?artlist_aid=the505podcast_2970&utm_source=affiliate_p&utm_medium=the505podcast_2970&utm_campaign=the505podcast_2970 What’s up, Rock Nation! It's been 4 years since we started the show, and today we wanted to revisit a few of a our favorite moments that have reshaped the way we think about creating a personal brand. Let us know which moment is your favorite in the comments! SUSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER: https://the505podcast.ac-page.com/rock-report Join our Discord! https://discord.gg/xgEAzkqAvs Kostas' Lightroom Presets https://www.kostasgarcia.com/store-1/p/kglightroompresetsgreece COP THE BFIGGY "ESSENTIALS" SFX PACK HERE: https://courses.the505podcast.com/BFIGGYSFXPACK Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro 0:21 - Seth Godin 6:15 - Gary Vee 11:19 - Chris Do 14:11 - Artlist 16:07 - Everything is Risky 18:58 - Caleb Ralston 28:06 - Oren John 35:05 - Daniel Priestly 43:09 - Erica Mallet 50:07 - Sabri Subi If you liked this episode please send it to a friend and take a screenshot for your story! And as always, we'd love to hear from you guys on what you'd like to hear us talk about or potential guests we should have on. DM US ON IG: (Our DM's are always open!) Bfiggy: https://www.instagram.com/bfiggy/ Kostas: https://www.instagram.com/kostasg95/ TikTok: Bfiggy: https://www.tiktok.com/bfiggy/ Kostas: https://www.tiktok.com/kostasgarcia/

## Transcript

[0:00] Over the past four years, we've sat down with some of the biggest creators and forward-facing founders in the world.
[0:04] Through our conversations, we've unpacked countless insights on what it really takes to build a personal brand. The kind of brand where your audience is obsessed with you, ready to support you in anything that you do.
[0:13] In this episode, we're gonna revisit some of our favorite moments that completely changed the way we think about showing up online. Let's kick things off with our good friend Seth Godin.
[0:21] So attention has always been critically important, and it has a best friend named trust. And it is possible to get attention without trust, um, but it's not worth anything.
[0:34] It is possible to get trust without a lot of attention. That's worth a ton. So you're measuring the wrong thing, and the idea of remarkable doesn't mean a gimmick. It doesn't mean a hustle.
[0:46] It means worth making a remark about. So this show has a lot of people watching and listening to it. Did they find out about it 'cause you called them up at home and said, "Uh, you gotta watch my show"? I don't think so.
[1:01] Most of the people who are listening have never met the two of you.
[1:05] They heard about it from someone who else, who heard about it, who told them about it, and people spread the idea, not because it's a cataclysm and a joke.
[1:15] They spread the idea 'cause it will make them look good if they introduce their friends to what you're doing.
[1:20] What Seth actually doesn't know is I've personally called up every single person who has subscribed to our channel and watched the podcast and said, "Hey, you should check us out." This is guerrilla marketing its finest.
[1:29] Oh, yeah. You gotta be remarkable, though, okay? Gotta be. You got to be good enough to, for people to be able to go and say, "Hey, check this out. The reason why I'm watching this new show, Apple TV, Pluribus.
[1:39] You know why? 'Cause my best buddy Kai called me and said, 'You have to check this out.'" Not 'cause I saw a billboard, not 'cause I saw it in a magazine.
[1:45] Because someone went out of their way to tell me about this thing and said, "You need to go listen to this." Another thing that Seth brought up is how important trust is, and attention, we're all kinda after attention.
[1:59] We all want the views. We want the followers, of course. We want our business to get views. Of course. We want our business to get attention.
[2:07] But if you don't have trust, if you're not relatable enough or you're not remarkable enough to build trust with your audience, going viral and getting all of these views doesn't mean anything.
[2:18] Specifically for the people that are listening to this episode, we're building a personal brand so that we can build a business behind it, and the way that you build a business is you gotta get sales, and the way that you get someone to buy something from you is that you're remarkable or they trust you.
[2:34] Ideally, both. If you have a really great product and you build that trust with your audience, they're gonna be, like, begging you to buy whatever it is you are offering to sell.
[2:45] But you have to build trust, and the way to do that is to be relatable, and you shouldn't be going after or chasing the, uh, the vanity metrics of the views and the followers. You really want trust.
[2:58] We see this all the time with the accounts that are maybe, like, popping 1,000 balloons and they're nice. Yeah. Maybe that account gets some AdSense, right? But I, I don't know who it is. Yes.
[3:07] I think they're super interchangeable. It doesn't matter. Whereas a YouTuber that gets 10,000 views for their clothing brand, and they're showing you the behind-the-scenes- Yeah...
[3:16] of what it's like, and you really fall in love with this person, their vision, and why they're building this thing, that person's brand has the potential to see so much more success over the long term 'cause you have so much trust built up.
[3:26] And I'd argue, too, it's the same reason why if I saw someone out in public and they're a YouTuber and I consume their content or, like, I have went to an event for a YouTuber before because I got a lot of, of value from seeing their episode.
[3:40] I was like, "Wow, this workout, it literally changed my life." Yeah.
[3:43] It, it completely changed and gave me confidence and I've turned into a new person because of this random person who doesn't know who I am's YouTube video. You need to be thinking about long-form content. Totally.
[3:53] Tell you that right now. It, it's gonna just gonna help everything out that you're doing.
[3:57] If you're focused on Instagram right now, I would literally switch it over to YouTube or somewhere, or podcasts, somewhere that they can act- someone, somewhere that a community member can hang out with you for a longer period of time.
[4:07] There's also so many people online making videos about, like, how to go viral and it's like, "Yo, use these three hooks and go viral," and everybody wants the views. Of course.
[4:18] Like, you want attention, but just following those gimmicks and those, and those hacks and, and the tactics of, like, how to growth hack, you're not actually gonna build anything of substance.
[4:29] Like, it's, it's just kinda empty views. We're really after, like, a true hardcore audience. Our podcast isn't even close to the biggest in the world.
[4:41] We're not the smallest, we're not the biggest, but, like, we get some incredible messages from people about how much they fuck with our show because of, like, how real we are and, like, we ask great questions, we conduct a great interview, the guests have a good time when they come on, and then we have the PPD where it's like, "Yo, come hang out with us."
[4:58] And I think that's where we build the trust. You know what I'm saying? It's like we bring ourselves into the content.
[5:05] But, like, if you're just in it for trying to get views or trying to go viral, you're never actually gonna build anything of substance. You have to just also try to get a little bit better every time you do the thing.
[5:15] Yeah. We talked to Seth about that briefly, like, after the show ended.
[5:19] It's like every time we do a, a pod, every time he writes a book, every time someone puts out a YouTube video or a short-form piece of content, you should be able to look at it and be like, "What can I do to make this a little bit better?
[5:27] Could I make my intro a little bit better? Could I film it from this angle? Should I add a little bit of lighting?"
[5:32] If you always are doing that and always trying to think about, "How can I get one little bit, percent better," at the end of the year you'll be dramatically better than where you started.
[5:39] I also wanna harp on when you, when you hear the word, like, remarkable, it doesn't always have to be production value. You don't need
[5:52] a, a better camera or a new lens or, or more lights or a whole team to, quote-unquote, "be remarkable."
[5:58] You just have to have a unique point of view, and you just have to be remarkable in the way that, like, you show up and who you are online and-You can't be remarkable by copying what everybody else is doing.
[6:12] Shout out to Seth, our most viewed episode ever. Next up, we got Gary Vee. We flew all the way out to New York to make this one happen. This is about bringing yourself into the content. Roll the clip.
[6:21] Guys, do you understand that you could double your podcast audience if you guys made a video about burgers? People don't believe that when I say that. Go deeper on that. I will.
[6:30] By you throwing off speed pitches, that 20%, that gives you the opportunity to get a whole new world.
[6:37] If you guys just literally told a frat story of a keg stand, that's the video that might get three million views, and they'd be like, "Who are these guys? Oh, shit, this podcast. Oh, I do that."
[6:47] Like, people are not giving themselves a chance to be discovered. People want sales. Hmm. People want depth. People have philosophies of like, "I wanna be on brand, I wanna be consistent." Ideologies.
[7:00] It's not how the game works. You gotta let him go deeper, man. \[laughs\] Dude, pause. Whoa. Okay. Like, hey, you gotta bring in the stuff that you're interested in into your content. Okay, you're a T.
[7:09] We've talked about this many a times- Yes... on the pod. Okay, you're a T. You got the one thing that you're deep in.
[7:13] Business, plants, education, uh, filmmaking, whatever the thing is, and then it's the other stuff up here on the T that makes you unique. Yeah.
[7:20] There's thousands of people, millions of people in your respective niche, tons of people doing the exact same thing. How are you going to stand out? Gary Vee's...
[7:28] One of his most viral clips of all time is him talking about how he loves blueberries and, like, they're the best ever. It's, like, one of his b- most viral clips ever.
[7:34] And you guys know which one I'm talking about if you're a fan of Gary Vee, if you've seen his content. Yeah. I, I mean, Gary does this extremely well.
[7:41] You think about Gary obviously has VaynerMedia, and he talks a lot about entrepreneurship, personal brand, marketing. But when you think of Gary Vee, you think about the New York Jets, you think about garage saling,
[7:55] other shit. Playing cards. Playing cards. And so why has Gary been able to cut through the noise and really stand out? Like, there are other founders who are talking about, you know, things that he talks about,
[8:09] but he, like Seth said, he's, like, so remarkable because he's kinda going against the grain.
[8:15] He's not afraid to cuss, but he's bringing himself into the content and really showing you, like, a 360-degree view of, like, who he is. And there's no lack of information on the internet.
[8:31] Like, people can search on ChatGPT, Google, YouTube, and learn anything they want. And so if that's the case, and if there's creators, there's endless amount of creators out there creating content
[8:47] regardless of what niche you're in. So if that's the case, how do you stand out? Well, it's by having a different point of view and bringing yourself into the content. For example, you like plants. I like plants.
[9:02] I like Legos. Yeah. Right?
[9:04] So if someone's also into plants or also into Legos, and they see us talking about something that they've heard somebody else talk about, but then they also see that you're into plants or that I'm into Legos or, or fitness, working out, food, whatever it may be, they might say, "Hey, I've heard this before, but I like the way that Brayden or Kostas said it.
[9:23] I also really fuck with the fact that Brayden likes plants or Kostas likes Legos, so I'm gonna rock with Brayden and Kostas versus some other person." And so if you can think about that, like what you said, it's the T.
[9:35] It's like, whatever your niche is, whatever your focus is, um, if you're, if you're, if you're providing value of sorts, you know, if you're building a personal brand around a certain topic or niche,
[9:46] when the idea of, like, you are the niche, it's like you're talking about, uh, you know, a specific thing.
[9:53] You're providing value within, like, a specific sector, but you're also bringing in all your hobbies and interests also into your content because that makes it relatable, that makes it you, and that's gonna make you stand out.
[10:05] People are afraid to do this because their... the views dip, the likes dip. Sure. Vanity metrics dip. If you talk about something a little bit that's, like, a little bit to the right- Yeah... right?
[10:13] They're like, "Ah, I don't know. That's just not my brand." Like, whatever.
[10:16] I'd argue that those views are more important overall in the whole cumulative situation than just the ones of you talking about your business stuff or your podcast stuff, your camera stuff, whatever the fuck the thing is.
[10:28] I bet you every single person listening to this podcast can think of a creator. They can think of two creators, and they're gonna, they're gonna pick one creator where they're just like, "Okay.
[10:40] They're talking about something similar to this creator, but I like this creator because they're unique.
[10:45] They, they're talking about something that is niche that they're interested in that I'm also interested in, so I'm gonna rock with this creator more."
[10:52] It's an easy one, an easy one to think about for this is, like, fitness creators. There's a bazillion fitness creators. Yeah. Some of them are way more funny than others. Some of them are science-based.
[10:59] Some of them are nutrition-based. Some of them have, you know, a, a degree in kinesiology, and they can help you with this specific thing. That's how you gotta think about the stuff that you're doing.
[11:07] If you're a real estate agent, think about what you can do to be different than all the other real estate agents. Shout out to G. This episode really did help us this year.
[11:15] It literally helped us double the show, so if you're from that episode and that's how you found us, thank you so much for tuning in. Next up, we got Chris Do. Safe is risky. Risky is safe. Roll that clip.
[11:24] It's a line borrowed from Paul Arden's book, Whatever You Think, Think the Opposite. He's a legendary ad man, and his, his chapter is Safe is Risky, Risky is Safe.
[11:34] When you do what everyone else is doing, you get when, what everyone else is getting, and if you're not already in position one, two, or three, you're pretty much dead.
[11:41] There's a general rule of thumb that the person in the first place in any industry or market is three times bigger than number two, and number two is three times bigger than number three.
[11:51] So basically, if you can't be first, second, or third, you're screwed. I, I almost feel like if you can't be first, you're screwed.
[11:58] And so if you just do all what everyone else is doing, it's not gonna work out unless you're number one.
[12:04] And then now, why is risky safe is because, well, if you're doomed to do something, then at least do something on your own terms to try an ideaThat might break through the noise, that might be an innovative business model.
[12:17] It's just better that you pursue that. So this is why taking some risk is the safest thing that you can do.
[12:24] The moment I walked in and quit my job was the moment I feel like I was finally, like, giving myself 100% chance of doing this thing. Mm. Doing the pod, doing my company, Blue Stripe. I'm like, "I gotta burn the boats.
[12:34] I actually have to do this." If I stay here, like, I could do this for the next 10 years, 100% get a paycheck. It's safe. It's su- wicked safe. I'm... Sports isn't going away from AI. I'm gonna be able to hang out here.
[12:46] Yeah. 401k, call it a day. If I really wanna see how big we can take this thing, I have to quit my job. And that was the most liberating feeling, walking out of that la- the building on the last day.
[12:53] I'm like, "Damn, you gotta get to be able to go now. You get to actually, like, you get to play." Like, do you wanna play? Show them what you can do.
[12:59] Hearing Chris talk about this, \[laughs\] I can't help but to think of, if you're not first, you're last. Ricky Bobby. Ricky Bobby. \[laughs\] There's a, there's an incredible Jim Rohn quote though.
[13:09] He said, "Everything's risky." And if, if you look at it from that perspective, right? I like that. I like that.
[13:15] If everything is risky, and you're thinking about, "Well, if I don't take the risk, if I don't bet on myself, like, how is that risky?" Well, you risk not seeing your full potential. You're not...
[13:25] You risk not betting on yourself. You get one life. We're all gonna fucking die. Like, why not bet on yourself?
[13:32] The worst that happens is that it doesn't work out, and you go get another job, or you just go back to where you were before you fucking took the risk. You can always- And it's all good...
[13:43] you can move back to your hometown. You can leave. You can always. You can leave. Dude, you can go back to your mom's basement. Yeah. No pro- no har- no problem at all. You can start over. You can start over at 30.
[13:51] You could redo it. You could get divorced and restart your life. Doesn't matter.
[13:55] Dude, I had a dream \[laughs\] last night that was so fucking realistic that I thought that was gonna happen because I had a really realistic dream that my fiancee called off the engagement \[laughs\] and I was like- \[laughs\]...
[14:06] "Holy shit, I gotta start over. This is fucking crazy." Um- But you could. You could do it. You could. If you wanted to. Could've done it. Biggest of the year. This episode?
[14:15] No, the Artlist sale that's going on right now. That's right. It's the top link in the description. Do you wanna know how much it is? It's actually crazy. I, I would love to. Okay, it's 20% off the annual plan. Wow.
[14:23] So that's like music, the stock footage, all that good stuff, sound effects, AI voiceover. There's so many things, I can't remember them all. And 40% off the AI products.
[14:32] \[whistles\] And I just tested out my newest video that's on the pod account, first four clips are all created with AI. Those looked- It's pretty ridiculous...
[14:39] look, I don't wanna gas them up too much, but it looked fucking amazing. So when I can think of a use case for this, you're in a pinch, all right? Maybe you need one extra clip of B-roll- Yeah...
[14:48] or your editor's doing podcast clips, and he needs some, like, money flying through the air or something. You can literally go in, prompt the engine. I was using Veo 3, and it just, \[clicks tongue\] boom, pops it up.
[15:00] Takes a few minutes, and it's ready to rock and roll. This episode is all of our favorite moments about how to build a personal brand. Correct. When you're building a personal brand, you're making content online. Yes.
[15:11] You, you need banger music. You need banger music- God... and you need good B-roll. You need some B-roll, and it... Let's say you're in a pi- dude, maybe you live in a place where it rains all the time. Oh, yeah.
[15:20] God, Eugene, Oregon, went to school there. Bummer. Maybe you live in Canada right now. Yeah. I know it's raining a lot over there. You're in the UK, gloomy skies. You want that warm, warm sunset feel.
[15:30] This would be the place to do it. It would be. Okay? And it's so, so easy. They've supported our show for many, many years. They are the GOATs. I trust them with so much of what we're doing. They have a vision.
[15:41] They are amazing. It's the top link in the description. You're never gonna get a better sale than you're getting right now. Seriously, they don't do this. Yeah. \[laughs\] It's, it's literally the window is open.
[15:49] Don't be the rock that texts me and says, "Oh, could you call?" No. Yeah, yeah. We're not gonna be able to call them. This is it. Go check it out. Lock the heck in and go.
[15:56] If you've been thinking about getting Artlist, now's the time to do it. I've used every... I've used so many music licensing platforms. They have the best music on the internet. By far, hands down.
[16:04] Don't make the mistake. Go check it out. Go lock it in. Okay, go. Everything is risky, and, and I think that not taking the risk just is gonna lead to resentment.
[16:18] And whether it is you're around a certain group of friends who maybe don't support that, y- they think your content's cringe, your parents don't believe that it's, like, a real career, whatever it may be.
[16:29] Like, it's only delusional until it works, and then when it works, people are like, "Holy shit," like, "Of course it worked." Like, you look at MrBeast, right? This motherfucker is...
[16:40] was so delu- like, had so much delusional- Delusional confidence... confidence- Yeah. Mm-hmm... that he's like, "I'm gonna be a YouTuber. I'm gonna make it work. I'm gonna go... I'm gonna play it...
[16:50] I'm not gonna play it safe, and I'm gonna take the risk, and I'm gonna do it." And, like, you just put in so much work that it becomes, uh, inevitable that you're successful.
[17:00] And so if you're listening to this, and you're like... I'd like to think that the people listening to this know that they should create a personal brand, create content. They're risk takers. They're dreamers. Doers.
[17:11] They're doers. I- if something is holding you back from going all in on something because you think it's risky, or you're not sure if it's gonna work out, like, fucking go for it.
[17:24] We're living proof that, like, we're four years into this. We took the risk of starting a podcast when it's too saturative, too saturated of a market. We had no network.
[17:35] Like, the fact that we have been able to get people like Chris Do, Gary, Seth, other creators on is unbelievable. Like, take the risk, take the first step, and you figure it out along the way, and you take messy action.
[17:50] Like, the fastest way to guarantee that you don't have success is by, like, not taking the bet and taking the risk on yourself. Bang, dude. Anything else that you wanna say? You wanna hype the people up?
[18:00] Also, on the topic of safe is risky and risky is safe,
[18:04] if you play it safe in your content, and you do what everybody else is doing, and you don't try to differentiate yourself, and you're kind of writing your scripts out, and you're sounding like everybody else-Or your content just looks like everybody else because you're thinking to yourself, "Well, it worked for them, so if I just copy them and I kinda play it safe, I don't ever have, like, my own point of view.
[18:28] I say what everybody else is saying." The best you'll ever be is number two, and you won't stand out.
[18:34] If you think about all the most successful creators, they have a different point of view, they didn't play it safe, they dress different, they look different, their content feels different.
[18:44] If you don't have something that differentiates yourself and you don't take the risk to be different, you're, you're never gonna stand out, and the best you'll ever be is number two. Congratulations.
[18:55] AI's coming for your ass. Hey, if you do what you've always done, you're gonna get what you've always got, okay? Be different. Shout out to Christo. Next up, we got Caleb Rous and the Four-Step Brand Story Framework.
[19:04] Roll the clip. So the first place I want anybody to start always is the brand journey framework, and it's four simple questions, and it's gonna sound ridiculously simple, and that's a good thing. That's good. Yeah. Yeah.
[19:15] That's what we want here. Like, we don't want complexity for complexity's sake. So the first question is gonna start at the end, and we're gonna reverse engineer our way back to today.
[19:24] So the first question is: What's the outcome that I desire? What do I want to have happen? Why am I doing this? The next question is: In order for that outcome to happen, what would I need to be known for?
[19:35] The third question is: In order to be known for that thing, what would I have to do? To be known for things, we gotta do shit, right? And then the final question takes us to today.
[19:45] In order to do the things, to be known for the thing, to get the outcome I want, what do I need to learn?
[19:51] If, for example, you are wanting to speak on stages to, uh, audiences of young women who are building their businesses,
[19:59] you probably need to be known as someone who has maybe potentially, as a woman, built a big business, probably even helped other people build big businesses. So then what would you have to do?
[20:10] You'd have to build the businesses and help other people. But then that chunks down to today, which is you're gonna have to learn a fuck load of different things.
[20:18] You're gonna have to learn product, marketing, sales, HR, finance, all these different elements that ladder up to it. And so I, I think it gives you a clear picture of where you start today.
[20:27] And some people, you know, they haven't started, so they should do this from the beginning. If you have started and you feel like you don't know where you're going, this is what I would...
[20:36] I would literally stop everything and do this exercise right now because it gives you the path of what actions I should take to get me closer to that outcome. The Four-Step Brand Story Framework, we've done this.
[20:47] It's so fricking helpful. If you feel like you're kinda, like, on a boat and you're out in the middle of the ocean, you don't have that clarity, the Personal Brand Kickstarter is free 99.
[20:55] It's our top link in the description. Go get that. Go check that out, and then keep going with this episode. 100%. We've done this. The pod's done this. It's actually so helpful, and you're just...
[21:04] You're reverse engineering where you wanna go. Yeah.
[21:06] That's all you're doing with this, and it makes it so simple to finally have the sail on your boat, 'cause many of you are out in the middle of the ocean in the Atlantic right now, and you just have no sail, and you're just- Yeah...
[21:17] it's just an abyss. I want you to be locked in. I want you to be going straight. Man, getting clarity is, like, one of the most powerful things you can do when building a brand and just in life in general.
[21:28] I don't know about you, but I can think to a, a handful of times where I felt lost. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, what path I wanted to go down. I've never felt lost. Yeah, right? \[laughs\] And
[21:42] just had the map of life just handed to you, huh? But I, I can point to a few times where you're not sure, you're feeling lost, and the future feels uncertain, and it's a really scary place to be.
[21:57] And then you kinda do some soul searching. You maybe journal a little bit, maybe do the four-step brand story framework, and you get that clarity.
[22:07] And then once you get clarity and you're like, "Oh, I know exactly where I need to be," everything else that is gonna,
[22:15] uh, detract from you achieving your goals or everything that doesn't align with where you wanna go because you have clarity, it's so much easier to say no.
[22:26] And once you get clarity, the path actually becomes so much more fucking clear of like, okay, if this is where I wanna go... I, I love that he's like, you gotta start at the end and work your way back.
[22:38] Figure out what it is you want out of your content, your personal brand, whatever, however you wanna show up online, whatever it is you wanna get out of all of this. Where do you wanna go? Where's the end goal?
[22:50] Okay, great. Then figure out if I need to... If I wanna go there, the steps to, like, get there, they almost kinda just, like, unveil themselves. Things fall into place. They go, "No shit. Okay, great." Yeah.
[23:02] You wanna run a marathon? Probably gotta run your first- Exactly... one-mile run. Yeah. Then you're gonna run two, and then you're gonna run three, and you're gonna get all the way up till you do 26.2.
[23:10] Running's a great example. Like, if you s- if you tell yourself, "I wanna start running." Cool. Okay, cool. There's not really a plan there.
[23:17] But if you're like, "I wanna run a marathon," there's a clear path and a training schedule that you need to follow to be able to achieve that goal. It's the same thing.
[23:26] Like, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably making content already or you have a desire to do so, and you wanna build a personal brand or a business for yourself.
[23:35] Once you have clarity on the end goal of, like, where you wanna get to, the steps that you need to take on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month basis becomes so much more clear, and you can get rid of all the distractions and all the bullshit.
[23:47] In high school, wanted to start a clothing brand. Literally just we looked it up. What do we need? We need to think of a logo. We need to do this. Okay, we need to find somewhere to print it. We printed it.
[23:56] We magically had shirts, and we had a brand. Mm-hmm. And then we started selling the shirts. Fuck yeah. That's how, that's how. It's not that simple, dude. \[laughs\] Or, I mean, it's not that hard. Yeah.
[24:04] Just brick by brick. Right. You wanna start a podcast? You need a mic. You can do it on your iPhone. You can film it. You need somewhere to upload it for free, YouTube.
[24:13] You then need to figure out how to get it to audio, so you Google it. Then you put it on another application, and then it sends the RSS feed to Spotify and all those other platforms. Yeah.
[24:21] Bada bing, bada boom, you magically, you have a show. W- And what's... What I also wanna touch on is that-You can have,
[24:30] you can have clarity multiple times in your life, and more often than not, like, your goals at 18 are gonna be different than your goals and aspirations at 24 and at 30.
[24:42] And even though they might be similar, like, your, your interests might change.
[24:47] And let's say you have clarity, let's say you're younger listening to this, and you're t- 22, you just graduated college, and, you know, you're like, "Okay, I have clarity. I, I wanna do this. I wanna build this.
[24:57] I wanna build a personal brand around this." And then you do it for three to four years, and your interests change, or you're like, "This doesn't really serve me anymore. Like, I did it. I'm kinda over it.
[25:09] I don't wanna do it anymore." It's okay to, like, reposition yourself or then ask yourself these questions again and get more clarity. I remember... It's so funny. We've done this multiple times, you and I.
[25:21] We've done it multiple times, and I remember specifically, dude, uh, when I first started touring and doing concert photography, I remember showering at 505, and I had this thought of like, "Holy fuck, I made it."
[25:39] \[laughs\] Like, this is, like, everything that I've been looking for. Like, I have this clarity, like, I'm a fucking touring concert photographer, and this is great.
[25:47] \[laughs\] And then a fucking year later, I was like, "Fuck this." Yeah. \[laughs\] "I don't wanna do it anymore." Mm-hmm. And I was searching for that clarity after I stopped.
[25:54] But I remember, like, before touring, I was searching for clarity on, like, what do I wanna do? I, uh, all right, great, I wanna make money with my camera and, like, be a successful photographer, videographer, creator.
[26:07] I got that, and then what I thought I wanted, I... Turns out, like, I got... I, I enjoyed it, but then I, turns out I didn't wanna do it anymore.
[26:17] And I bet you probably had a similar feeling when you started working with the Lakers. You're like, "I fucking have this awesome job.
[26:23] I wanted to be, you know, a full-time videographer, creator, and I have it with the Lakers." And then you were there for five years. I toured for two.
[26:33] And you get to a point where you're like, "This doesn't serve me anymore." And then you get to a point where you're like, "I'm kinda searching for clarity again."
[26:41] And so I just wanna point that out, of like, we've gone through multiple times in our life where we've had clarity, and then we've been searching for it. And if you're in a time of having clarity, amazing.
[26:53] Fucking go at it 100%. If you haven't found that clarity or you're looking for that clarity, ask yourself these questions. Go through the brand story framework or, like, ask yourself what you really do want.
[27:06] Like, what could you see yourself doing for the foreseeable future? And find out. Like, also the quickest way to get clarity or a great way to get clarity is also f- by finding out what you don't want.
[27:18] You might not know what it is you want, but by trying different things, you're like, "Okay, I know I don't want that. I know I don't want that."
[27:25] Maybe that gets you more on the path of clarity of what you actually do want. Dude, pivots are chill. Pivots. \[laughs\] Dude, pivots are so chill. Did you ever watch Friends? Y- No. Oh. No, I can't, can't. I'm gonna lie.
[27:35] There's this, there's this really funny scene where they're trying \[laughs\] to bring a- That's kinda like an older person thing, I feel like. No, shut up, dude.
[27:43] \[laughs\] No, but they're bringing a chair, or they're bringing a, a... They're bringing a couch up a really windy and small staircase. And Ross, one of the characters is like, "You gotta pivot. You gotta pivot."
[27:55] And he's like, "Pivot. Pivot." And anytime I think of a pivot, I think of that. Shout out to Caleb. Another episode over 100,000 on YouTube. Shout out.
[28:01] Okay, next, next guest, okay, my girlfriend was telling me, like, "We should have this person on the show." And I'm like, "The episode's already out." So that's great. This is Oren. This is talking about world building.
[28:10] It's an amazing concept. Roll that clip. So everyone thinks of, like, brand content, like, almost linear. Like, I'm gonna see... I have an Instagram account. I have a TikTok account. What do I actually say on that?
[28:19] But when you look at a world, it's like your brand is really a TV show. And this is, like, an exercise I do, like, at brands and done it online where it's like, cool, let's actually map out your brand world.
[28:27] And so from a TV show perspective, who are my characters? Like, who are the people appearing on screen? Like, DRCHUTS has male creator, female creator, multiple regional creators, and the CEO as characters.
[28:37] They appear in the content. They're there in person at events. They're on the website. They're models in whatever. Those are all people that are part of the brand's story, right?
[28:44] Um, and you'll see brands come up with this later. Like, uh, a, a brand I really like is called Kosas. It's, uh, like a s- skincare makeup brand. My girlfriend does a brand deal with them every month. Yeah.
[28:52] She loves those guys. So like, but their founder became a creator- Oh... as an extension.
[28:55] She wasn't an influencer to start, but then became one because they knew that that's an important part of, like, the story, was to have someone that is aspirational or relatable or whatever the core thing is, uh, to be able to then tell that story.
[29:05] That's a character of the brand in the same way an influencer is, right? Your characters extend out. But then you add that to, okay, where is our brand, like, located? Like, is there a s- is it a set?
[29:13] Where do we film content? Do we have an office? What's part of this?
[29:16] Our storefronts, your pop-up experiences, that's, like, the world they interact with physically and people either see online or interact with in the real world.
[29:22] And then there's the, like, put it on a timeline, like events of, hey, we have releases, we have campaigns, we have collaboration.
[29:28] And you get those things up top, and then you add in plot, which is basically, okay, what are we announcing? Do we actually have a... Do we have beef? You know, I always like to call out, uh, like Bryan Johnson.
[29:36] He has a brand strategy that positions himself against death. And so it's like he has an enemy, and the enemy is a huge part of that content, right?
[29:42] Um, and so I think, like, even, like, Liquid Death, they're positioning against thirst, quote-unquote, but really that's a counterculture positioning.
[29:48] But you kind of add those plot lines, like what is the thing we should interact with? What are events that we can create? What are things we can tap into in monoculture? It's a Super Bowl, whatever.
[29:55] And this big cascading thing of influencers and our team members and locations and all that is the brand world. So anytime anyone interacts with it, it's like, does that experience tell your brand story the way you want?
[30:04] And the bigger the world goes, the more people interact with it. When you think about your content, sometimes this, this could be done as a priority. This could be done secondary. You don't even think about it. Yeah.
[30:12] It just ends up happening. You don't need the fanciest car, the fanciest house to build a world.
[30:18] It could be, like, your little tiny, teeny-tiny one-bedroom apartment in New York City, and that's the world that you're building, and the city is a part of this character in your show.
[30:26] The easiest way that I like to think about this is Casey Neistat's vlogs. It's a very easy way to conceptualize, like, this concept, right? So-New York City was a character in the show. The studio was a character.
[30:36] The Boosted board was a character. They don't have to be real things. They could be inanimate things. You could literally name things in your studio, i.e., this is, like, the 505 Studio. You now know what it looks like.
[30:45] You've been here before. Our apartment, we'd show you everything in our apartment when we were there. Yeah. When we lived at 505, right? The OG 505 apartment building. You knew what it looked like.
[30:55] You knew that our living room would get transitioned into this studio and what our rooms looked like.
[31:00] You had an idea of, like, this world, and we lived in Los Angeles, and we had a rooftop view, and you could see all that stuff.
[31:06] Use that concept and bring it into the things that you do, whether it's your friends that are appearing in the videos, whether it's, like, the couches that you sit on, or the z- cushions, whatever, the backdrop.
[31:15] All that stuff builds into this world. Brands do this really well. Like, you think about Nike, they build a world using all these different athletes. Yeah.
[31:22] And, like, the different events that their athletes go into, the marathons, the f- Super Bowl, the World Series, all of those things play into their world that they get to, like, you know, activate on.
[31:32] So it doesn't have to be you have the fanciest car, you have the nicest house. Yeah. It could be, "Yo, I live in a rural area, and I work on a farm, and I'm building a clothing brand." Uh-huh.
[31:41] That could be the world that you're building, and that's probably way more interesting to a majority of the country. 100%. We...
[31:47] This episode hasn't come out, but we had Ross McKay on, who's built Cadence, or is building Cadence, and I think they've done a phenomenal job. Storytelling and world-building I feel like go hand-in-hand.
[31:58] Yeah, it's a little tomato, tomato. Little tomato, tomato. But the world that they've built around Cadence is, like, one of high-performance athletes,
[32:11] and regardless of wherever you are in the world, if you're training and you're drinking a Cadence, you feel like you're part of that world because it's inexpensive luxury, like he was telling us,
[32:22] and when you consume the product, or you use the product, it's almost a ticket into the world that they've built.
[32:31] So he's done a great job of building this world of, like, you know, really sick fits and running swag and, uh, high-performance athletes.
[32:39] And, and it's, it's a luxury product that doesn't cost that much, and so somebody can go into a convenience store and spend $2.50 and buy a ticket into the world of Cadence and feel like they are also this high-performance athlete.
[32:53] And if you can think about that, whether you're a creator or a founder building a brand, what is, what are the things that you can bring into your company, into the content, and build out the world so that it's not like you're just another T-shirt brand?
[33:09] It's like, what is the world that someone's entering when they put on your T-shirt, or they drink your drink, or they use your product? I walked into Salomon. They opened a new store on Melrose. Mm.
[33:19] And I'll tell you what, it looks a lot different than, like, a Nike store. Sure. It's more, like, outdoors, hiking- Yeah... some of those shoes are being used for, right? It's, like, a trail runner.
[33:27] So they have, like, rocks hanging from the ceiling. Nike feels very, like, high-tech. If you've been to the one that they closed in New York, it's, like, very high-tech.
[33:33] It has all this crazy stuff on the walls, and it, it's just a very different look and feel. But their worlds are super different. Yeah. Nike's not meant for, like, trail running, right?
[33:42] They might have a trail runner shoe- Sure... but that's not what they're known for, whereas Salomon, like, all the artistry was, like, someone running by trees, and it was, like, a slow shutter effect. Yeah.
[33:50] And it's just super different. So notice that when you go into these stores 'cause the brands do it really well, and it's something that you can take and put it into your content.
[33:57] Something else that Oren talked about a little bit later on in this episode, or at some point in the episode, was maxing.
[34:03] So we, we were joking around about, like, looksmaxing, but he talked about inspomaxing, and I think this is also important. I think back to when I was a kid. I wasn't one that, like, really decorated my space or my room.
[34:14] I didn't really have, like, many posters on my wall. You're a blank room kid. Yeah, kinda weird. But I think that, like, look around your space. Look around your home. Look around your room.
[34:24] Where- wherever it is that you create content, when we think about world ma- world- when we think about world-building, it's like, what do you have up on your walls? Like, what art are you interested in?
[34:37] Are you bringing that kinda stuff into your content? Are you thinking about what your backdrop looks like? Are you thinking about the things in the background of your content?
[34:47] Are you conscious of the world that you're building? And if you don't have a really cool design spot, it's okay. Maybe just throw a couple posters up, or, like, think about the mise-en-scène.
[34:59] Like, what is in the frame in which you're filming to help build out that world? I love it, dude. Yeah. Shout-out to Oren. Next up, we got Daniel P. all the way from the UK.
[35:09] Daniel Priestley in the 505 studio talking about the 7-11-4 framework. Roll the clip. The way we fall in love with brands, the way we fall in love with people, the way we connect and feel positive is through 7-11-4.
[35:21] So 7-11-4 is I've spent seven hours, 11 interactions, or four platforms with this person. I feel like I know them. I feel like I get who they are. So if you take someone, um, famous, and you say, well...
[35:34] Like, like for example, if you saw Justin Bieber walking down the street, right? You would go, "Oh, it's Justin Bieber." Now, it's not because you know him.
[35:42] It's because over the course of your life, there's been at least 11 interactions where he's been named, and you've seen his name, his face, and something about him.
[35:51] So your brain has actually stored Justin Bieber in your head somewhere, and it's like, yeah, that's a familiar face, a familiar person, not because you know them, but because you've been exposed to them.
[36:02] So that exposure has led to you having a place in your head called Justin Bieber. Uh, there's a set of neurons in your brain that is reserved for Justin Bieber- Yeah... believe it or not. So that was a 7-11-4 process.
[36:15] When a celebrity dies, um, you know, David Bowie or Prince or something like that, and you go, "Ah, damn," like, "that sucks," not because you knew them, but because 7-11-4ed.Right?
[36:25] So it's the same that every brand needs to do. Every brand, if they want a relationship at scale with more people, they need to have seven hours of content, 11 interactions ready to go, four locations.
[36:35] They need to be strategic about their seven-eleven-four strategy. So you gotta publish enough stuff.
[36:40] When I'm working with startup entrepreneurs or scale-up businesses, one of the things that we look at is just purely and simply, do you have seven-eleven-four architecture in place? Like, are you seven-eleven-four ready?
[36:51] And a simple question is, if I spent... if I blocked out tomorrow from 9:00 till 5:00, could I fill the entire day with good stuff about you and your brand, right?
[37:02] And for scalable brands, the answer's of course, like easy. And for bu- businesses that are failing or struggling, it's like, "Uh, not really."
[37:10] Like, there's some old stuff, but you'd have to go looking for it, and like it wouldn't be easy, and all that sort of stuff. Moral of the story, you gotta get onto a long-form platform. If you're, for you...
[37:19] If you're a creator who's just sticking on short-form, I would pop over to YouTube. I'd pop over, I'd make a podcast. I would make longer form pieces of content. Or you just gotta show up more.
[37:29] You gotta show up a lot more if you're an Instagram creator. You gotta be going all the time. TikTok, very consistently, making those one-minute videos so people can spend more time with you. I would argue,
[37:40] I would argue that anyone would take 10,000 on YouTube over 60 to 100,000 on Instagram. Yeah. Like, that 10,000 on YouTube holds weight. It's so much more difficult to win on a long-form platform.
[37:53] And it's also a lot harder to hide, like, hide, uh, hide your BS. Like, y- you're gonna find out who this person really is from a long-form piece of content.
[38:02] You can't just hide behind like cuts and fancy music and editing effects. It's just not really that possible. Long-form also allows you to
[38:12] take, I guess, not the sawdust, but long-form also allows you to repurpose for short-form. And so you think about, okay, you got short-form, we got TikTok, Instagram,
[38:24] y- YouTube Shorts, then you got YouTube, the fucking head honcho. Crème de la crème. Crème de la crème, long-form. Long f- so that's two platforms, maybe three. I would also think about newsletter is like- Newsletter...
[38:37] another- Long-form... platform. Yeah. It could... It's like between short-form and long-form- Yeah... depending on how much you wanna write, but like that's another place.
[38:45] If you like writing, you can turn your content into, uh... Like, if, if you do a talking head style video,
[38:52] take that and you can also flesh that idea out more, put it into a newsletter, or turn that into tweets or post on LinkedIn. Um, if you think about...
[39:05] Like, there's so many ways that you can repurpose a long-form piece of content. If you take this podcast, for example, we could have the long-form piece of content.
[39:15] We could also have, which we wanna start doing, is like taking segments, whether it's like, you know, three-minute clips to 10-minute clips. Okay, you have a clips channel.
[39:23] That's another, like more interaction with somebody. Then you have the short-form clips from this. Then we can take what we talked about in the episodes, turn it into a newsletter.
[39:32] You could, in theory, you know, turn it into tweets, and then you could also make, um, a, a post on LinkedIn.
[39:39] And you could also take the short-form clips and make it a carousel and like repurpose the same thing in a different way on the same platform.
[39:49] And so when you start playing that game of like how many different ways can I repurpose a long-form piece of content,
[39:55] the game becomes a lot easier because all of a sudden you're not having to come up with so many different unique pieces of content.
[40:02] It's like you're really squeezing the juice out of everything that you can when it comes to your long-form piece of content. Without a doubt.
[40:10] But I think, I think the biggest takeaway is like the people that have the strongest personal brands are people that you feel like you're spending a lot of time with. Um- And you see them on multiple platforms too.
[40:23] Like, uh, uh, but we, we've talked about this. I'd rather you guys be on YouTube or I'd rather you be on the long-form one and go crazy on that- Yeah... than be on like four average ones.
[40:32] You're like, "Oh, I'm okay on Instagram. I'm pretty-" Sure. "... so-so mid on TikTok. I do a YouTube video once every month."
[40:37] Like, go crazy on the long-form and then eventually as you make more money, you can add on the short forms. It's like so much easier to do that later. 11 hours is a lot of time. Long time, brother. Okay.
[40:50] Let's just say you're making 30 to 60 second reels if you're just on Instagram, if you're just hitting one p... You don't have to hit four platforms, but I think you should be get...
[41:02] think about trying to hit the 11 hours, right? I don't even know how many- God, that's a lot of reels, brother. Okay. S- let me see if I can do this. You're not gonna do it. Let's just say it's 30...
[41:13] Let's just say you're making 30 second reels, uh, so that'd be two... So 120 for an hour. What's 120 times 11? 132? Okay. So you'd have to make 100... You like that math.
[41:24] You'd have to make 132 pieces of short-form content that's 30 seconds long to be equivalent to 11 or maybe even less podcast episodes because let's say our, let's say on average our episodes are like- Two hours...
[41:40] two hour- Hour, hour 40, whatever. Let's just say an hour and a half. Okay. Or no, let's, let's do two hours to make it easy. Make it easy. Yeah, yeah. So to hit 11 hours, you'd h- we'd have to put out six episodes
[41:52] compared to 132 pieces of short-form 30 second vertical content. Confirm his math down there, but yeah, that's crazy. It's, it's, it's insane. It's insane.
[42:01] And so that's why long-form eats so much more because you're, you're chipping away at those 11 hours a lot easier and a lot sooner. I'll tell you what, I've never went to an in-person thing for someone from Instagram.
[42:16] Maybe you guys have, but I'd assume a lot of you are going from like a YouTube creator who you've been like, "Oh, they're gonna be here." Yeah. Like, "I'm gonna go there."
[42:24] Like, I've been to multiple people's in-person eventsTypically from YouTube And it's-- We're not saying that you can't- No...
[42:30] build an incredible personal brand on short form, but I would argue that the people that you love, if you're listening to this, the creators that you love are more-- are probably the ones that are doing some sort of long-form content.
[42:44] And look, I understand that long-form takes a lot more work, and if you don't have the time yourself to be able to do it, it gets expensive to hire somebody who can film and edit for you.
[42:56] But if you can find a way to tackle some sh- some sort of long-form content, it's gonna provide so much more ROI as t- in terms of, like, the depth you have and the relationship you have with your audience.
[43:09] Shout out to Daniel. Go listen to that episode. Next up, we got Erica Millett on the enemy effect. Roll the clip.
[43:16] One s-strategy that I really love is called the enemy effect, which is uniting your audience against an ideological enemy. And what this does is it creates an in-group and an out-group.
[43:28] It, again, it speaks to belonging if you can make people feel like it's us versus them. I know this sounds very negative, but it isn't only used in negative ways. For example, someone who does use it, I guess,
[43:40] uh, in negative ways is, like, Andrew Tate. He speaks about the matrix. Um, that's his enemy. So he says, "It's us versus the matrix, and we have to do X, Y, and Z."
[43:51] That's an example of, from my perspective, Andrew Tate using it in a negative way. But a positive way could be someone like Taylor Swift. Her enemy is the cool girl.
[44:02] And, you know, this speaks to the feeling of being left out and othered, and anyone who feels like they've never been in the cool group, this unites those people together and makes them feel like they have a place to finally belong.
[44:16] So the first one is the enemy effect. It is crazily effective at make-making people connect with you. If you can explain to them that it's us versus the enemy, then that's a connection straight away.
[44:30] The enemy effect is really interesting because you can apply it to anything. Mm-hmm. If you're a fitness creator, if you're in real estate. You could have something where you're like...
[44:37] Let's use a real estate person, for example. This is easy for me. Your enemy would be renting a home. Mm. You'd be like, "I want people to buy a home," 'cause you're selling people homes. Yes.
[44:44] That'd be, that'd be your thing, right? And you'd be educating people on why, "I don't know this.
[44:47] I don't own a home," why it's more beneficial for you to own a long-term home over time, and the different ways and the things to be thinking about when you're trying to buy your first property.
[44:56] Or if you're, like, trying to sell long-term rentals, that'd be, like, your thing and your enemy. If you're in fitness, maybe your enemy could be strict diets. Be like, "I actually don't think you need a strict diet.
[45:06] I think you can eat what, for the most part, whatever you want if you track your calories and you work out four times a week." Way more accessible for people. Do you remember an OG fitness guy named Kinobody? Yeah.
[45:20] You think about him, and, and if you're listening to this, I'd be curious to know if you guys know who Kinobody is, but he kind of was the first person who was like,
[45:29] "Uh, you don't need to eat breakfast, and you can eat, like, uh, you can eat chocolate at night, and you only need to work out, like, three times a day." And so his- Three times a week... or three times a week.
[45:41] And so his enemy was, like, all the conventional things that people in the fitness industry were telling you and people at the time. And so because he took a contrarian approach
[45:54] and his enemy was something that, like, more people could probably relate to, he was crushing on programs and digital products.
[46:03] And the enemy effect, man, this episode, dude, was one of my favorites because Erica has such a unique way of teaching personal brand and, like, really showcasing, like, what it takes and the psychology behind how to create, like, a really dedicated cult-like audience.
[46:20] But the enemy effect really opened my eyes to, like, "Okay, who am I against?" And I also asked her in the episode, I was like, "Well, what if you're somebody of authority?" You know what I'm saying?
[46:32] Like, how does that person come up with their enemy? She's like, "The enemy just has to be bigger than you."
[46:39] So she gave the example of Trump being like, Trump is this, like, very successful businessman, but his enemy is the mainstream woke media, and the media in-- Trump has made that, like, much grander than who he is.
[46:56] And if you can think about, like, regardless of whatever niche you're in, who are you against? Because then it makes the, it, it gives you clarity on, like, who are you actually serving?
[47:07] If we're against this, how can I make content so that everybody becomes part of my mission and vision to be against that person as well?
[47:15] She also explains, uh, or she gives the example of Taylor Swift, and, like, Taylor Swift's enemy is the cool girl.
[47:21] And so a lot of people who love Taylor Swift's music are like, "We're also against the cool girl," and she has a fucking cult-like audience.
[47:27] \[laughs\] Even, you'll notice it now too in a lot of creators that you guys know and love or, like, brands that you know and love, they all stand for something, and they kind of like... It makes, like, a moat, right?
[47:38] Yeah. It's like, who, if you're... Are you on this side of the moat or are you outside of the moat? Or do you not agree with this or do you agree with this?
[47:43] And it makes it a lot easier, I think, to kinda write down on a piece of paper like, "What am, what do I, what am I against? What do I stand against? What do I not believe in?"
[47:53] Most high likelihood people listening to this pod, you're, like we talked about this earlier, you're a dreamer, you're a doer. You're trying to live outside of the norm- normal, like, normal life.
[48:01] You're, like, trying to strive for something bigger and better for yourself. Maybe you wanna eventually move to a big city. Maybe that's something, like, in your, in your goal.
[48:08] So people that don't agree with that will listen to this and be like, "I hate these guys. These guys suck." Congratulations. We don't care about that group. We don't need that group.
[48:17] We have our group, and we're replicating the group that enjoys hanging out with us. That's another thing, too, to think about. Like, with your enemy effect, you're gonna ruffle some feathers. Like, people- Yes...
[48:24] aren't gonna agree with you. Sabri Suby does this all the time, but he do- like, he does it intentionally. And m- people that do thisThey're typically being intentional about it. Yeah.
[48:33] They're like, "I honestly want to piss people off with this take because I know that it's gonna make people upset, and that's gonna share my brand more."
[48:40] Like, he, he had a video today that someone was crying about his thing. He's like, "People that drink black coffee are pa- or don't drink black coffee are pansies." \[laughs\] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[48:47] This group, like, shared it. He goes, "Dude, shout out to these guys. They're playing at the game, baby." I think about, um, our podcast and one of our enemies with- Who's-... this podcast- Who's our enemy?...
[48:58] is people who take business too fucking seriously, and so that's why me and Brayden, we want this show to be somewhere you can come and get a lot of fucking game about personal brand marketing, building a business.
[49:11] Great. Everything else that we've seen on the internet comes from such a, like, serious point of view. Dude, these guys are wearing suits. They're wearing suits, dude. Dude, we're not suit guys.
[49:23] And so we love cracking jokes. We love making it not super serious. We want our guests to have a good time.
[49:29] We want y'all to have a good time and have this be a place where you can come hang out, get some game, but also fucking enjoy listening to the boys just, like, sh- shoot some shit. We're not afraid to cuss.
[49:41] Like, when I think of 505's enemy, it's somebody who doesn't want more for themselves and is, like, okay with being, like, complacent and, like, potentially working a nine-to-five and, like, going down the traditional route, 'cause that's not us.
[49:57] And then also, like, fuck the business people who are way too serious and have a stick up their ass 'cause it's just not the k- it's just no fun. Dude, make business fun. \[laughs\] Dude, make business fun.
[50:08] Shout out to Erica. An amazing episode. And to round us out, we got \[laughs\] the internet daddy himself, Sabri Suby. Roll the clip. This is the biggest sin that I see all businesses commit, right?
[50:19] They think about what is convenient for me to sell. What would I like to buy? They don't start with what is the market absolutely starving for, right?
[50:30] So say, for instance, with my programs, the thing that I know that all, everybody wants is they wanna know a repeatable, predictable way to generate high-quality leads on autopilot that come into their business and buy with the least amount of friction possible.
[50:44] That's what everybody wants, right? So that's exactly what it is that I sell because that's what the market is starving for.
[50:49] But then once you get involved in the program, then you figure out all the other things that it is that you need, right? We talk about mindset. We talk about your health. We talk about systems, operations.
[51:01] We talk about all of these other things that need to be in place. But if I spoke about that on the front end, no one is, like, gonna come and buy it because you need to sell what is sexy, what is... what people want.
[51:14] Everybody wants to be rich. Nobody wants to get rich, and so they want easy button solutions. They want, you know, six-pack abs with doing the least amount of work.
[51:25] So you would be stupid if you tried to sell them, "Hey, you're gonna be working out for five hours a day." Like, it... Like, you need to sell what it is that they want and then give them what it is that they need.
[51:37] And you can m- you, you, you're gonna have to be tough if you're gonna be stupid.
[51:41] So if you're gonna go down the road of like, "Oh, no, I wanna sell everybody what it is that they need," those people have a very hard life. We speak to business owners all day long that are on the verge of bankruptcy.
[51:53] They're really, really hurting. They don't have a system in place to get customers, and they've been trying to sell people vegetables, right? When people want the brownies. \[laughs\] So sell them the brownies, bro.
[52:03] \[laughs\] And then just give them what they need. \[laughs\] And it's not like...
[52:06] It's kind of like a Trojan horse tactic, but it's in a positive way because if you have the best product in the marketplace, then it is your moral obligation to get that into as many hands of the people as possible.
[52:20] And so you wanna think about if somebody buys a product or service of one of my competitors, then I am doing them a disservice because I know those other products aren't as good as mine because I've bought them all, I've studied them all, and none of them are as good as mine.
[52:35] So if you know that yours is the best, then you need to make it the most enticing.
[52:41] And then once you've gotten them on board, then you provide them the education of, like, these are all the things that you need to do to get this outcome.
[52:51] He brings up a really interesting note in the pod about how he was selling something that people weren't looking for. Mm-hmm.
[52:56] And I think many people out there might be in a business right now, and you're trying to sell something, and you're like, "God, people just aren't buying this thing." Maybe the market doesn't want it.
[53:04] Maybe you created something that may be a little bit too early or a little bit too late. Someone's already filled that gap in the market, or they don't even know that that's something that's for them.
[53:12] And, like, there's so many different ways throughout history that we've seen this be played, where, like, uh, Erica brought this up too. Betty Crocker made a cake mix. Yeah.
[53:22] And it was too easy to make, so people didn't feel a part of the cake. But they were like, "Add an egg," and then the sales took off, right? It wasn't that people weren't ready for a cake mix.
[53:30] People were like, "Yeah, I'm down to make a cake mix way quicker." But it was the way that it was marketed and the way that people were creating it, it wasn't actually making people feel a part of the cake. Yeah.
[53:39] They had to change something, change a little bit of their marketing and say... That little, tiny phrase changed their entirety of their sales forever.
[53:47] You might have something that is a great product, but you're just marketing it the wrong way. You have to market it in a way that is gonna relate to your audience and, and your, your target consumer.
[54:01] Like, what you're actually selling might be, quote-unquote, "different" than the way that you market it, but if you were to just go at marketing your product at complete face value, it might not be interesting, right?
[54:16] For sure. And so he, he talks about marketing your product or creating a product that, uh, the audience is, like, starving for, but then you actually give them what they need.
[54:29] And so for example, like, the, the six-pack shortcuts, right? Yes. People are starving to get a six-pack in f- in, in a very short amount of time. We didn't want a guide on a diet. Exactly. We didn't want that.
[54:43] We want a six-pack. So if he, if he was to have promoted, like, uh, you know, the, the boring stuff, like you gotta eat healthy and you gotta- That was on the other side of the payment, dude...
[54:54] It's, yeah, it's on the other side. It's like you market it as something that, like, really hits home with the p- with the pain point that your target audience is having, and you market it around that. And so it's, it...
[55:06] You market your product as something that they're absolutely starving for, and then you give them what they want. But you're gonna give them what they want regardless.
[55:16] You just have to market it in a way where they're like, "Holy shit, this is exactly what I need because this is exactly what's gonna solve the problem." That episode was so gold. Yeah.
[55:25] And it just n- not, not tons of people have seen it, so you guys need to go down there- I know... and go click the Sabri Suby episode. This has been so fun. Yeah.
[55:32] I hope that you guys got a ton of value out of the last four years of information that we've been able to compile. I'm curious. Please leave a comment as to which episode or episodes have been your personal favorites.
[55:44] Ooh, give me, like, top three. Okay. It'd be, it'd be helpful. Yeah. I feel like it's very difficult to pick one. Yeah. So I'd love to hear your top three episodes.
[55:50] By the time you're listening to this, we're in Hong Kong. We're on a flight right now as we're speaking. We're going to interview Ali Abdaal. We're gonna interview Jeff Su. It's gonna be an amazing week of pods.
[55:59] We'll see- And content... and content. Oh, dude, you guys thought we were- \[laughs\] You thought, you thought we were playing? No, we're just getting started. You wanna talk about personal brand content?
[56:08] Wanna talk about practice? \[laughs\] This is day one, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you all so, thank you all so much for tuning in to this episode of the 505 podcast.
[56:13] If you're still here, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment, leave us a like, and we'll see you guys all next week. Peace.

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