# It’s Boring, But Will Make ANY Personal Brand Explode in 2026

An episode of [THE 505 PODCAST](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1591279585), 1 May 2026, 1 h 49 min.

Audio: https://podcasts.beehiiv.com/3f71d8b4-2a8c-40eb-8500-c62b76bd9acc/019d43e4-0103-7741-b37f-b81b41dca056/019de4d6-dc95-7e79-b0a7-a66aa1ca8ed3/019de4d6-dd78-714b-805a-05f7be381862.mp3

Get 30% OFF your first 3 months of beehiiv with our code "505POD30" http://www.beehiiv.com/splash?utm_campaign=brayden-figueroa-2026-Partnership&utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=brayden-figueroa&utm_term=dedicated-podcast-1&stripe_campaign_code=505POD30 What's up Rock Nation! Today we're joined by Taki Moore, the coach of coaches. With 20 years in the game, he's built one of the most respected coaching programs in the world and helped create more seven figure coaches than arguably anyone else doing it. In this episode, we get into why he hopes he never goes viral, why most coaches are accidentally building jobs they hate, the five part offer framework that lets him change the wrapping every month without changing the product, cutting his team from 36 to 8 by leaning back into marketing instead of management, and how to turn your knowledge and expertise into a seven figure online business. Check out Taki here: https://www.instagram.com/takimoore/ Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 00:00:57 - Why Information Became a Commodity 00:02:25 - You're Paying for Speed, Not Information 00:02:58 - How Coaches Should Generate Leads in 2026 00:04:00 - Coaching Is the Accelerant 00:04:56 - The Mistake of Teaching Everything You Know 00:06:32 - When Taki Went Pro With Content 00:08:33 - Why He Doesn't Want a Media Army 00:09:24 - Caleb Ralston and Doing It Your Way 00:12:11 - Why He Hopes He Never Goes Viral 00:13:09 - Entertainment Creators vs. Education Creators 00:13:33 - Why He Deleted YouTube Studio 00:14:15 - Beehiiv Ad Read 00:15:07 - Burnout at 204 Episodes 00:16:43 - $30K Sale 30 Minutes After His First Upload 00:17:51 - Treat Your Business Like a Lab 00:18:55 - Why He Switched From Free Webinars to Paid Workshops 00:21:10 - 5% Qualified to 55% Just by Charging for the Ticket 00:22:37 - The Free vs. Paid Workshop Test 00:23:18 - The Missing Piece Between Leads and Clients 00:24:38 - Same Product, Different Wrapping 00:26:22 - The Offer Seesaw 00:29:00 - Why Email Beats Every Other Channel You Own 00:31:21 - The Ghostwritten Email That Made Him Cringe 00:32:35 - The Two Things That Make Content Land 00:34:06 - The Japanese Toilet Story 00:37:24 - The Jell-O Mold Theory of Content 00:38:43 - The $8K Handstand Coach and the Lottery Niche 00:40:17 - The Brick Method 00:42:43 - Contrarian, Not Controversial 00:47:19 - Do Shit and Live the Dope Life 00:49:08 - Boring Businesses vs. Sexy Brands 00:51:32 - Practitioners vs. Talkers 00:52:29 - The Offer Diamond 00:54:42 - The Weekly Billing Trick 00:55:27 - Real Scarcity Is a Marketing Tool 00:56:13 - Workshop or Sales Call: Which One Fits You 00:59:24 - Everything Works. Pick What Fits. 01:00:30 - Building Your Business Like a Jigsaw Puzzle 01:03:25 - The ABC Doc: Avatar, Business, Character 01:05:38 - Why Recurring Revenue Saved His Business 01:06:39 - End, Extend, Ascend 01:08:14 - The Dope Squad and the Birth of Boardroom 01:14:23 - The Kid Cudi Theory of Onboarding 01:15:50 - Believe, Belong, Breakthrough 01:19:31 - Magic Trick First, History Second 01:22:17 - The $500 Tomahawk in Minnesota 01:24:48 - The $55K a Night Bachelor Trip 01:26:52 - Coaches Keep Building Jobs They Hate 01:28:19 - How It Feels Beats How It Looks 01:30:39 - $27K in a Year, Then $30K in an Hour 01:31:36 - Outsource the Laundry, Outsource the Hate 01:35:00 - From 36 Employees to 8 by Leaning Back Into Marketing 01:36:12 - Admit What You Hate 01:37:30 - Yellow Pages and the Workshop That Almost Killed Him 01:40:44 - Why He Doesn't Lead With Testimonials 01:42:34 - The Drawing Habit That Built His Brand 01:44:12 - Advice for the 5K to 10K Coach 01:47:18 - $200 From a Mate and a Pregnancy Announcement 01:48:33 - You Need a Deadline Baby 01:50:03 - Mark's Five Minute Coaching Masterclass 01:51:25 - The Shirt Off Body Fat Goal If you liked this episode please send it to a friend and take a screenshot for your story! And as always, we'd love to hear from you guys on what you'd like to hear us talk about or potential guests we…

## Transcript

[0:00] Biggest mistake that people make with content is they teach stuff that they haven't actually done.
[0:02] Everyone's content would be way better if they stopped making videos for a couple of weeks and did something cool and then told the story. That's Taki Moore.
[0:08] He's coached some of the most successful digital entrepreneurs and helped create more millionaires in the online space than arguably any other coach in the game.
[0:15] With more than 20 years of experience, he's built the kind of business most operators say they want and almost none actually build: high demand, low complexity, and a calendar he controls.
[0:24] Every client who starts with us, the very first thing we do is we figure out something that fits you like a glove that you can do kinda effortlessly forever. Taki does things differently.
[0:30] He fired his sales team, he sells from a Google Doc, and he hopes to never go viral.
[0:34] If a million people saw one of my videos, I know for a fact that, like, 900,000 of them, I can't do anything with those guys because they're not a coach and they're not in my world.
[0:41] In this episode, Taki breaks down what's actually working in the coaching space, how to stand out by throwing a brick through a window- And how to build a successful online business that fits your life instead of the other way around.
[0:50] Most people don't really want a business. They want a job where they can do creative work that pays for life, and if it doesn't take over their whole life, they're happy.
[0:57] Taki, you've been in the game for about 20 years, right? Back then, the information was the product, but today the product, right? You got ChatGPT, we have Claude. I can pretty much get every answer for $30 a month.
[1:08] Yeah. You say people pay for implementation. Yeah. What has changed in the way of the, like, of the coaching space over this last, like, decade? Yeah, kinda everything. Yeah. Like, when I started, dude- Uh-huh...
[1:19] I would send people a physical CD in the mail. No, you wouldn't. \[laughs\] A 12-page newsletter, and a weekly fax. Wow. Yep. Old school. Uh, so what's changed?
[1:28] \[laughs\] Uh, we used to have to teach people what a coach was, now everybody knows. Mm-hmm. Everyone's hired one. Everyone's mom is, like, a high-ticket closer now. Uh-huh.
[1:34] And, uh, I think what hasn't changed is what I'm most interested in, is people have always hired coaches for an outcome. Mm. And our job has always been, how do we get them a better outcome faster?
[1:44] And so yeah, the information's pretty u- ubiquitous, but they're paying for a win and they're paying for speed. And so AI and all the tools, they're just accelerants. Um, so like,
[1:58] everything's changed and nothing's really changed at the same time. Mm. So our job is like, how do we get someone clear, and how do we get someone moving?
[2:05] How do we get them an outcome with as, as little learning as needed? I was chatting with Hormozy yesterday, and he was like, "We want the highest value per minute and as few minutes as possible."
[2:14] I think that's just a- Mm-hmm... nobody really wants a coach. Sorry. \[laughs\] It's just the facts. Like, we're a necessary evil.
[2:22] They could do it on their own without us, they would, and they can't, so that's why we're here. Yeah, it's like if all you needed was information, everyone would be a millionaire and have a six-pack. Correct.
[2:31] But they're not. And I'm a, I'm, I'm a millionaire. \[laughs\] There's definitely, there's definitely no abs under there.
[2:36] \[laughs\] Um, not since April 2nd last year when I had, I had abs on April 1, and it all went downhill after that. So if information is now a commodity- Yep... and it's not really what you're selling- Yep...
[2:47] when it comes to marketing and getting sales and lead generation, what needs to happen and what needs to be in place for coaches to be able to generate leads and then sales for their business? Yeah, so I think,
[3:01] uh, generic information is everywhere. There's still a role for, if you're this kind of person in this kind of situation, this is how you apply it to you. And so hence, you know, niching... Niching. Sorry, America.
[3:14] Uh, niching down has always been super important. Mm. And so my marketing philosophy has always been like, how do I give freely of the information and then charge a premium to help people do it?
[3:24] Um, what needs to be in place? I think in the old days, um, people were much more trusting.
[3:30] There was a lot less information out there, and so anyone who looked kinda half smart, I'd jump on a call and happy to talk to them. Interesting. And now trust is built upstream, and so I lead with the information.
[3:39] I give that away for free, and then people hire people like us to go, "Okay, you look like you've got the answers. You've done it before, and you've got results. Can I work with you to speed up my journey?"
[3:50] And I don't think anyone who works with me, um, needs me. Like, they're smart. They'll get there on their own eventually. I'm just an accelerant.
[4:00] It's so interesting to think about because with people that I have paid for, like, a lot of money, it has been, it's been way faster than me figuring out myself. It's like I- And part of that's the decision. Yeah.
[4:12] Like, the moment you commit. Yeah. Okay, well I'm all in on this, and so it's got your focus. Mm. But then it's, um, to your point, Costas, the, the content is what gets people in.
[4:23] They're like, "Oh, you know, he's got the secrets. Cool." But what really helps people win is the impl- is the coaching, is the help me win. And then what makes people stay, to a large part, is community. Mm.
[4:32] And so I'm like, how do we optimize the right amount of content in the right dose?
[4:36] And I've fucked this up a lot by giving people everything I know instead of what they needed to know, uh, in a coaching environment that, that creates momentum with a community that helps them run faster?
[4:46] Because if you wanna go fast, you go solo. If you wanna go far, you go together. If you wanna go fast and far, you do it with kindred spirits on the journey. Mm. Can you touch on what you just said a little bit?
[4:57] You've made the mistake of giving people everything you know- Yeah... instead of just what they need to know, 'cause that's really interesting. Y- yeah, and I'm still very guilty of this. Uh-huh. Like the one...
[5:07] We run an amazing coaching program called Black Belt. The one thing that is bad about it is that there is, like, it's my life's work, everything's been recorded, and it's in the fucking portal. So I should have asked.
[5:16] It's okay to swear? Ab- absolutely. Let it fly, baby. Yeah. Okay. It's encouraged. Good. \[laughs\] Well, let's fucking do this.
[5:22] \[laughs\] Um, the, uh, the danger is, I mean, you know a lot, and there's a lot of things that, um, that you know, and because you've been doing this a while, you've got nuance. Yeah.
[5:32] And but to get started, you don't need nuance. You just need to do the stuff. Um, like, if I'm massively out of shape and I come to you as a, as a trainer, I don't need to know, like, the, the nuance about sit-ups.
[5:43] I just need to do it and maybe not eat so much \[laughs\] shit. You know what I mean? \[laughs\] Um, and so the danger is everything you know is a lot and, and you're... We get bored of the basics really quickly.
[5:55] And so the, the trick is how do you make the basics super accessible and then give people, like, a, a custom plan so they can go run? And then later on if they wanna learn the finesse, cool. But to-To win, you don't,
[6:07] you don't need... Like, this is awful to say, but I think some of my most successful clients are my dumbest clients. Shout out to all my clients. \[laughs\] Um, who are just like, took it- Keep it simple. Yeah.
[6:18] I'm just gonna go do that, please. Yeah. Follow the plan instead of like second guessing, getting all in our head. When do you feel like you went pro with content? Because I remember- 15 months ago. 15 months ago, okay.
[6:27] Yeah. 'Cause when we found you- Yeah... it was early on. You were doing Instagram obviously, and like, you know, we saw that, and you say that like, "I'm really big on email." Yep.
[6:35] You were not out there publicly really for tons of people to find you. No. What changed in that period of time? Like, and who, who, who'd you talk to? Yeah, I'm \[laughs\] gonna tell you the story.
[6:44] I want, I want, I wanna know. Yeah, this is embarrassing. Okay. So, um, Dan Martell's been a mate for a long time. Mm. He's been a client for a long, long time. And, uh, he came out a year and a half ago to Australia.
[6:54] We did an event together in December 2024. And Captain Consistent, like- \[laughs\] He is. Like, he's, he's Captain America if he was allowed to be Canadian, you know.
[7:07] \[laughs\] Um, but like every Monday for a decade, a YouTube video just like clockwork. Uh, and he posted for ages, and then one day when his book came out, decided to take it seriously.
[7:17] And so if you look at his, um, his audience growth, around book launch date, maybe a month or two either side, that's where things took off.
[7:26] And there's this, there's this line of like audience grew, and with it, business grew at the same speed. And so he was out in Sydney and, uh, I got chatting with him and with Sam.
[7:37] It had been in the back of my head of like, I probably should. There was some stuff in my business that I wasn't happy with and, and wanted to make some changes around sales and stuff. I was like, "All right."
[7:45] Um, and he talked about going pro. And if you ask anyone who's got a big audience, you say like, "How long have you been on YouTube?" Or, "How long have you been on Instagram?" And they'll always give you two dates.
[7:54] "Oh, I first posted here, but I took it seriously there." And so that date for me was March last year, maybe Feb last year. Um, and uh, I can literally... I mean, I'm not big or famous by any s- I've never gone viral.
[8:10] I hope I never do. Um, but the audience grew and the business took off because of that decision on that day. Um,
[8:19] the funny part was like the decision to go pro was easy, but the figuring out how to do it in a way that didn't completely suck was hard.
[8:27] 'Cause I was chatting with, um, with Dan, and I got all excited 'cause that's what happens when you hang out with people who are great at their stuff. I want to go pro. And then I chatted with Sam, who's like the...
[8:35] I don't know if you've met Sam Ganny. Yeah, he's the best. A legend. He's a legend. I'm like, "Okay, so what does it look like?"
[8:40] And he explained everything that's going on for them, and it was like, "You know, we've got camera dudes following Dan around all the time, and we've got 13 people in the media team, and da, da, da, da, da."
[8:46] I was like, "Oh." They showed up with a damn army. Right. You, you had came out, I mean, it was like the clown car. Oh, there was five of them all wearing the same shirts.
[8:52] Open up the, open up the Escalade, and there's- And they've all got abs... 16 people walking out the Escalade. I'm like, "How- It's amazing... how many people we got in here, dude?" Yeah. So, like I love them to bits.
[9:00] Mm-hmm. And I don't want any of that shit. Uh, I've got six kids. Um, I live a pretty chill life. I don't want camera dudes following me around.
[9:08] So I was like, how do I get the yay, like the, the audience and the growth and the, you know, the impact without the boo, which is the, you know, all of the stuff that I thought it would take. And so,
[9:19] you know, the first couple of months I was just like dabbling in it and trying to find my feet. Like on YouTube it was like, can I get a, a video up a week?
[9:25] And then it was like, can I get a video up a week that's actually good? And once I kinda ticked those two boxes, I'm like, how do I do that in a way that doesn't suck?
[9:32] 'Cause I wasn't having, having fun at all the first maybe six YouTube vids. Very scripted, um, reading off a teleprompter. I hated it. So then like trying to find,
[9:45] trying to find a way to go pro but do it my way was the magic. And I, I have, um, Caleb Ralston, who I th- I know you guys know. Good buddy Caleb, yeah. He's a legend. Mm.
[9:56] Um, I saw his six-hour like monster course, the first thing he published, or maybe second. I was like, "This guy's gonna get big. I gotta reach out to him right now."
[10:03] \[laughs\] "While he'll still pay any attention to little old me." Mm-hmm. And I was running an event in, in Mexico last year, July. I'm like, "Hey, man, could you come speak?" And he did, thank God.
[10:12] And afterwards I sat down with him for a, a pod like this, and the... It was just like completely selfish. Like, if anyone else gets value from that video, fine, but I was doing it for me.
[10:21] It's like, "All right, man, how do I not suck at this?" And he said, um, his, his definition of branding is where you like deliberately stick two things together. Pair two things, yeah. Mm.
[10:31] And he's like, "But you gotta do that with your content, not just the content itself, but like your process for making it." And so you wanna do more content. Amazing. Yes, I do. What are the things that you already love
[10:41] that are, that are fun for you? Like favorite snacks, people you wanna be with, locations. He does all this stuff like on a Harley or at, at a great Airbnb 'cause that's fun for him.
[10:51] And I was like, "Well, I love coffee shops and great coffee and the beach and outside." And I'd been...
[10:58] I'd shot all of my stuff indoors at my home studio, and I'm only ever there when I'm on Zoom with my clients, but I felt like I had to do my videos there. And he was like, "No, man, you should go outside."
[11:08] And that was like, like snorting a line of permission. It was like, whoa, I could do it my way. It was amazing. Mm-hmm. And so ever since then, creating content get, has got way more fun. And I think if you...
[11:18] You need to be... You have something great to say, and if you're enjoying it, they're much more likely to enjoy it too. Mm-hmm. Um, so that was pretty, pretty pivotable. Pivota- I can't even say the word.
[11:28] That was important. \[laughs\] What's also interesting is how many subs are you at right now? Like less than 20K, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, maybe 17 or 18 now. And- It's very slow... but- As YouTube is, though.
[11:43] I mean, it's a slow, slower burn for most. Yeah, unless you're Caleb. Unless you're Caleb and you can just get a rocket ship. But there's a, there's a correlation between like effort he put in- Yes...
[11:50] and what he got out. Sure, yes. But I bring that up because I think a lot of people think that to make a lot of money you need a lot of subscribers- Yeah... a lot of views, a lot of traction.
[12:01] Of course it helps to have- Yeah... more traction. But you also- If they're the right people. Ex- But that's what I'm trying to get at- Mm. Mm... is like your videos and your content-... is so targeted.
[12:12] It's, like, very specific and aligned, and I'd love for you to go into that because I think a lot of, um, a lot of coaches and a lot of creators, they're trying to- Go broad... go broad and reach, like, this massive TAM.
[12:27] Yeah. Um, but it's- I think it's really tempting. Yeah. 'Cause you think more is gonna equal more of the bottom line. Yeah, but like, I said before, like, I hope I never go viral, and I kinda mean that.
[12:37] Like, if, if a million people saw one of my videos, then I know for a fact that, like, 900,000 of them aren't- Yeah... I mean, I hope they get value. That's amazing. But, like,
[12:47] financially, I can't do anything with those guys because they're not a coach and, and they're not in my world. And so it's nice, but I'd much rather do a video that...
[12:54] I wanna be niche famous, not famous, or niche viral, not viral. I think one of the things that I found hard early on was, like, you find all these people online who teach content,
[13:05] and it feels like there's two different games. There's, like, entertainment creators, and there's education creators. And so these guys get heaps of views but can't monetize. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[13:13] And these guys can monetize really well but maybe don't get as many views. And if you learn from th- those guys, I just think it's a very different game. Um, so my, my only... You know the YouTube Studio app- Yeah...
[13:27] on your phone? Yeah, I deleted that 'cause Casey Neistat said he doesn't watch it. I'm like, "Well, if Casey's the GOAT, I'm gonna- \[laughs\]... I'm gonna be like him."
[13:34] If, yeah, like, one day I get to be that- My screen time is off the charts on the Studio app, dude. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, I do not even look. Check it all the time. I don't look. Yep.
[13:41] Uh, 'cause for me, like, I've got people on my team who are, like, great at that stuff. Shout out to Tony. She's amazing. Um, but for me, a vid- like, I win if, if it's useful,
[13:52] uh, if I had fun, and I learn something that I can make the next one better. And, like, that's a pretty easy, like, very low standard of winning. But, like, if I...
[14:01] If it's, if it's useful, people will watch it, the right people will watch it. If it's fun, I'll keep going. A lot of people, like, smash it really hard and then burn out.
[14:10] I think, like, the average podcast has got, like, three episodes or something. If that. If that, right? Yeah. So shout out to you guys.
[14:16] All this talk about email has got me thinking about one thing, and that's how most of the Rocks don't own the place where their community actually lives. And for years, even we neglected this.
[14:24] We were building our community without any sort of ownership. But that has now changed because we started using Beehiiv.
[14:30] So our podcast is hosted on Beehiiv, our newsletter's hosted on Beehiiv, and our website is also hosted on Beehiiv. It's a one-stop shop for everything we do.
[14:38] Before, we were hosting our podcast on one platform, newsletter on another, and our website somewhere else, which is costing us a fortune. But now we can host it all under one roof, which is Beehiiv.
[14:46] And since everything's under one roof, we're able to use the podcast to grow the newsletter and vice versa. It's also worth noting that they take 0% of earnings made through the platform.
[14:54] So whether you have a paid subscription, a newsletter, any of that good stuff, you're keeping 100% of that money, which is epic.
[14:59] And Beehiiv was also kind enough to give the Rocks 30% off the first three months if you use the code 505POD30. Go check it out. It's at the top of the link in the description. Let's keep it rolling.
[15:08] It's interesting because we, we just restructured a lot in the way that we're doing the podcast because we did reach a point of burnout. And it's like, we've been doing it for so long, and- Yeah, we're four years 204.
[15:24] Is that right? Mm-hmm. And it just... But it... You're right. It's like, it... You can only ride the wave- Mm-hmm... of, like- Views... discipline and adrenaline. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
[15:34] And, like, mustering your way and just being like, "Oh, we just gotta keep going." And it's like- Mm... well, if we just fucking keep going, we're gonna hit a point of burnout.
[15:41] And then it's like, not only do you slow down, it's like, "Oh, we don't even wanna do this anymore, so something needs to change." Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[15:49] Yeah, there's this Naval Ravikant quote about, um, like, business partnerships or taking on clients, and he said, like, "If you wouldn't work with him for life, don't work with them for a day." Mm. Mm.
[15:58] And I'm a bit like that with content. Like, if, if it's not fun, I'm just not... I've got a very low threshold for I wanna do it or I don't. So if it's not fun, I'm out. Um,
[16:09] so trying to figure out a way to, like, continue to get better, and I'm still, like... Most of the time, I feel like a turtle who's been flipped upside down and, like, waving his stubby little legs- \[laughs\]...
[16:18] trying to get back on his feet. Like, I just don't know what I'm doing half the time. But with YouTube, I made a decision in March last year, like, I'm gonna do this for a whole year, even if nothing...
[16:29] I'm gonna get a single client or whatever from it 'cause it's an asset. I kn- I know that eventually it'll get good. Luckily,
[16:35] 30 minutes after my first vid, someone watched a video, sent us a message, and bought a $30,000 program. I was like, "Okay, well, that was a nice little dopamine hit. We should keep this going." Little ROI there.
[16:44] Little ROI there. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but it's a, it's a journey. Um, I think, like, half it is just, like, good fundamentals. Mm. You know,
[16:55] titles and, you know, packaging, titles, thumbnails, and opening 30 seconds is... And then good content.
[17:00] Like, a lot of it's just mechanics, and then it's like, okay, well, given the basics, how do we make this as you as humanly possible? Yeah. And that's been really fun.
[17:06] Have you found that what you've taught has evolved a ton over the last decade? Or- Yeah... okay, it has. It has. The, the- A thousand percent... playbook continues to be changing. A thousand percent. Okay.
[17:16] Yeah, I couldn't... Like, you see, like, The Rolling Stones, some old- Yeah... I'm old, I apologize, who has to, like, if they're on tour, they have to sing Satisfaction- Uh-huh... one more time.
[17:25] I bet they fucking hate it. Uh-huh. Yeah, if I had to say the same things forever, I would get really, really bored. Mm-hmm. I think the topic areas don't change that much. Mm-hmm.
[17:34] You know, so, like, you know- Need leads... yeah, I need leads- Need fulfillment... I need sales. Yeah, yeah. I need to be able to deliver the result- Uh-huh, uh-huh... and, and scale a business.
[17:39] So they don't change, but the tactics change a lot. Mm-hmm. And that's the fun part. Mm-hmm. You feel like you are constantly having to evolve. Yeah. Mm. And that's the fun. Mm. If I, if I didn't, I would be out. Mm.
[17:49] But we treat our business like a, like a lab, and we're always running experiments, and then our clients run experiments, and so we're all kind of reporting back, "You know, I did this. Take that."
[17:56] That's nice that you have, you have a revolving feedback loop. Yes. Never ending, yeah, sushi train conveyor belt- Uh-huh... of fresh ideas. Mm.
[18:04] Um, and so my job is part cr- you know, creator, inventor of the ideas, and part, um, you know-... lab assistant who gets to eavesdrop in on somebody else's experiment and go, "Oh, that's cool. Can we share that?"
[18:17] And then we package it up for all of our clients. Yeah. That's fun. Hmm. Can you eat sushi? I know you told us that you're- Yeah, I can... allergic to shellfish. Shellfish. Okay. Just shellfish. Yeah. No lobsters.
[18:27] My tongue swells up. Mm. Yeah, if it comes in a shell- Mm-hmm... I, I stay away. Because- Prawns, s- like shrimp- Uh-huh... seem to be okay, but everything else, just, like, my tongue swells up. Okay.
[18:35] \[laughs\] And I go, "Ugh." If you talk for a job, that's not, that's not fun. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I had, I had sushi last night for dinner and I...
[18:40] It was really good, and I would've been really sad for you if you couldn't eat sushi. No, sushi, sushi's great. We were just in Japan, and we had a lot. \[laughs\] Um, what's also interesting- Follow for more value.
[18:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah. \[laughs\] What's also interesting is, um, you started doing paid workshops- Yeah... as a new, I don't wanna say- Conversion event... business. Yeah, conversion event. Yeah. Yeah.
[19:01] Okay, that's a great way to put it. Um, how long ago did you introduce the workshop model, and were you doing free webinars- Yeah, for-... at some point, and then you switched? Yeah.
[19:12] I, I've been running a free webinar almost every month for 10 years, at least. A long time. Wow. Running ads to it, so you would be paying for the free traffic or no? Yeah, running ads to them. Okay.
[19:23] Uh, yeah, ads and socials and emails. Mm-hmm. Same as we do now. Um,
[19:28] but now, 'cause I've got content on my team, thank you, content, uh, we've gone from spending, like, 60 grand a month in ads to six or seven or eight on a big month. Wow.
[19:37] Um, and most of that spend goes in the one week before the workshop. So yeah, we did free forever. Um, and I'm happy to do it. I love teaching. I love...
[19:47] Like, most people do, like, same webinar or same content and new audience every time. And it's like, I wanna do what's fresh and exciting for me, so I'm like f- fresh new workshop pretty much every month.
[20:00] Um, and when I did free, we'd get, I dunno, let's call it 1,000 people to register, less than 1,000 to show, a lot less, you know, 20 or 30%.
[20:11] And then when we survey people, either on when they register or live on the workshop, like, "What's your monthly income?"
[20:19] Like, mostly the webinar's job was to sell a program that's for people who are doing six figures as a coach and wanna get to seven.
[20:25] And 5% of the people who registered and 5% of the people who showed were the people I actually- Qualified... yeah, wanted. Mm-hmm.
[20:31] Um, happy to help the others, but, um, if I'm gonna make an offer that's not right for them, it's f- it's gonna, it's a bit of a waste.
[20:40] And so I, we've had a couple of evolutions of this thing, and the first one was back when we were doing sales calls. The people who you want as clients are usually pretty successful. They, that means they're busy.
[20:49] Busy means they probably aren't gonna show up for your webinar live in the first place. And so if the job was to book a call off the webinar and they don't show up, then let's just offer them the call- Mm...
[20:58] on the thank you page after they've registered. So that was a game-changer. Uh, we call that the webinar that doesn't matter- \[laughs\]... 'cause it doesn't matter. Mm.
[21:06] Um, and then when we started charging for it, two things happened. Um, all of the people who, who wanted to come for the free information
[21:16] didn't buy a ticket, 'cause it's only 100 bucks, but the difference between, like, you know, a free ticket and a dollar is like, "Oh- \[laughs\] Yeah... I don't want it that much." \[laughs\] I'm like, "Well, great.
[21:27] If you don't want the dollar, I don't really want you taking, sucking up my bandwidth," you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, so we went from 5% qualified to 55% qualified just by charging the charge.
[21:35] I know you guys are doing that model. Um, and then it allows me to be just really fucking generous with the stuff. So we run a workshop for our clients. When it goes well, we'll find that, we'll create the...
[21:51] I don't know if it's fair to say almost the little brother version of it. So it's like it's the same stuff, but maybe we give half of the GPTs and implementation away to our clients.
[22:01] Uh, sorry, that we give to our clients, to the potential clients. Um, and sales are bananas. Wow. Um,
[22:09] started as an experiment, like all good things, and now it's a million dollars a year just in ticket sales, which is fun, plus all the back-end stuff. Wow.
[22:16] Yeah, what's interesting is we did a test, I wanna say it was- Like, six months ago or eight months ago or something? Yeah, six to eight months ago, where we ran two workshops or- Mm-hmm. Yeah, two. Yeah...
[22:27] one was, one was a free one- Yep... and one was a paid one. Yep. And we wanted to, um- See the difference... we beefed up the paid one. Yeah. But we just wanted to do a comparison of, like, what are the numbers on this?
[22:38] Yeah. Who shows, who doesn't? Yeah. And we had, I wanna say, four or five times the amount of people to show up to the free one. Mm-hmm. And I think we sold one, one on the free.
[22:51] And the person who paid for the paid one \[laughs\] Yeah, right. So- And then, and we converted, I wanna say, like... It was, like, 40. Yeah, no, it was, like, 40%, 40% of people that showed up. Yeah, you're right.
[23:01] Yeah, it was outrageous. Like, f- yeah. So good. It was a crazy high percentage. And that's because I think often we're focused on, like, how many clients do we get, and how many leads do we get?
[23:10] So leads are, like, they give you an email address and- Yeah... permission to stay in touch, but no time. Sorry, no money.
[23:16] And these guys give you a bunch of money and a bunch of time to get the full outcome, and I think there's, like, a missing piece in the middle of, like, we've got leads and we've got clients, but what about customers in the middle?
[23:24] And that little subset of people who've, like, paid a little bit of money to give you a little bit more attention, those guys are the, the buyers. Yeah. Mm.
[23:32] Yeah, we just noticed that, and we were even doing the back end, or we were looking at the back end, and we had, what? 6,000 people or, I don't know.
[23:41] How many people did we hum- come, like, come to the checkout and they, like... A lot. Like, a few thousand. Okay. Yeah. And there's a few thousand people that have c- come to the landing page- Yep...
[23:51] went to the checkout, but not bought, and I'm like- Do they start the process? Mm. Do you have email addresses for those guys? No. Uh-uh.
[23:57] Okay, so next time, let's do two-step checkout where we get name and email address on s- step one. On the, on the first page? Yeah, and then have the form f- you know, do the rest. Oh, interesting.
[24:05] And that way we can message those guys and go, "Hey, are you still thinking about joining us for the workshop?" Hmm. You do really well.
[24:11] 'Cause the, what I was thinking is-They see that- Yeah, you see it, you see 25 bucks... it's, they, they see it as a paid thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, if they're not gonna sign up for the workshop, it's okay.
[24:22] Like, those however many thousand people is not who we want to go after anyways, because even if they were to come to the workshop, they're not gonna end up- Yeah... upselling.
[24:29] The chance of like, "Oh, 25 bucks is too much for me." Yeah. Mm-hmm. "But I'd love to join your thing." \[laughs\] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[24:35] "I don't have 25 grand to put away, but I've got 10 in my back pocket ready to..." Yeah, yeah. That doesn't happen. The, um, the reason I wanted to bring up the workshop model, one, it's because it's super interesting.
[24:43] I think, you know, everybody's heard about running a free webinar- Yeah... to the upsell, and it's been the model for, for very long. For... Yeah. But you also talk about how a lot of coaches, they'll switch their offer.
[24:57] Yep. But it's actually not a great idea to go after this, like, shiny new thing. Stay with your same offer, but change the wrapping- Yeah, 100%... on how you market it. And so I...
[25:09] Is the workshop, you creating a new version of the workshop every time, is that a version or an example of you changing the packaging of what you're selling? Yeah, it totally is. So I think about, um,
[25:21] imagine we go to a store and we buy a product and it comes in a box. So I think, um, there's a product, which is the thing that you sell. Mm-hmm. And then there's the wrapping, which is the packaging around it.
[25:31] Uh, I think it's a terrible idea to launch a new product every month or every quarter, every whatever. Um, but changing the wrapping is a lovely way to keep something fresh.
[25:41] And if you've got something that you've been selling for a long time, usually when you first launch it, we get, like, uh, beginner's luck and it's new, and everyone's like, "Oh, this is cool. I'm gonna get this thing."
[25:50] But if you... Like, if you're saying the same thing every week forever and ever and ever, of course it's, people are gonna go, "Well, I've seen that before." Um, you get bored of it, they get bored of it.
[25:58] But that's n- the mistake most people make is, "Oh, yeah, my product's not really selling. I'm gonna make a new product." And years ago, Vanessa, who was our head of sales, gave me a rule.
[26:07] She's like, "Tuck, you can do whatever you want in marketing, make any promises you want, just don't change delivery, please." \[laughs\] I'm like, "That's a good rule." \[laughs\] It's coming from head of sales.
[26:16] Um, she's smart. And so now we take the, the wrapping paper, the offer, and we tweak that every single month. So if you think what makes a great offer, it's really five core components. Um, if you think about a...
[26:29] In America, do you call it a seesaw? Yeah. Teeter-totter? Yeah, t- yeah, both. Yeah. Can we say seesaw- Yeah... 'cause teeter-totter's weirder? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, seesaw, right?
[26:37] Um, people buy either 'cause the reward is really heavy, awesome, um, and they don't buy if, if it feels risky. And so we're just trying to balance risk and reward at all times.
[26:46] And so on the reward side, we've got promise, which is, like, what's the result of buying this thing? And that's one lever or one thing we can tweak in the offer. Then we've got bonuses. What do I get if I do this now?
[26:56] On the risk side, we've got payment plan. Like, is it paid in, paid in full, really expensive, or can I pay it monthly or can I pay it weekly, or is there an installment plan or whatever?
[27:04] And then risk reversal, which is, like, guarantees. And so we can play with those four. Um, predominantly promise is where I... That's the thing we tweak most. Um, and then we've got urgency and scarcity on the bottom.
[27:17] You know, urgency, limited time. You know, my workshop's on tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Uh, scarcity, limited spots. I can only take on five clients or whatever your actual number is.
[27:25] Um, and so every month in Black Belt, we rewrap the offer, and we just look at, like, what, what part of the content are we focusing on for this campaign?
[27:37] And the product they buy is exactly the same, but we just change the first six weeks. Um, and so when you think about promise, I don't wanna get too nerdy, but I kinda do. Get nerdy. Yeah, get nerdy.
[27:47] Yeah, get nerdy, dude. All right. So if you got a, you got a program that helps videographers, um- Get to 10K... get to 10K. Yeah. Well, that promise probably doesn't change. Mm-hmm.
[27:55] Because you've built a whole product around- Yes. Yes... I'm gonna help you get to 10K. So if, if we go, "Well, this time it's how to get to 20K. This time it's how to get to three," it's like, well, that's kinda weird.
[28:03] Okay. Mm-hmm. This is what I was a little... This is what I was interested in. Okay. So but what you can do is, to get to 10K as a videographer, there's probably, like, at least three, but probably more things- Yeah...
[28:12] parts of the deal. So I know there's positioning and there's pricing and there's pitching- Mm-hmm... and there's whatever else. Mm.
[28:18] And so when you, with your workshop once a month, we can go, okay, instead of just go, "I'll help you get to 10K," we can zoom into one of those chunks. I see.
[28:27] And so the workshop is about positioning to get high-end clients, or the workshop is about pricing, or the workshop is about sales, or the workshop is about niching.
[28:35] And so we don't change the end promise of get to 10K, but we change the, the front door almost. And you go super hyper-specific. Completely. Interesting. And the best workshops for us are sort of micro-niched,
[28:48] uh, like deep on a, on a specific thing. So if you did a workshop on how to, how to price and sell high-end videography- Mm... that'd be more juicy than get to 10K as a videographer. Hmm.
[29:02] And you could keep your flagship workshop and run that once a quarter, and the other two months you do something a bit more micro. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I really like that.
[29:11] You also said before we were chatting, email is so, so important for you. Yes. And I think that- I love email so very much... you know, the, the sponsor of this video is Beehiiv, which is kinda sick. Thank you, Beehiiv.
[29:20] Nice. Email marketing. But what is it fundamentally that people don't still understand, including us- \[laughs\]... about email? 'Cause it's not something... And maybe, maybe it's like a generational thing.
[29:29] I, I, yeah, I'm old. You know? Let's be honest. Yeah, no, you're young. You look young. Yeah, I look young. But I, I think- I'm 50 in three weeks. I... Wow, no shit. Yeah, I've got six kids and six grandkids.
[29:36] You look a day over 30. Yeah. Thank you. I'll take it. What is it about email fundamentally that most of us younger folks don't understand about how important it is?
[29:43] 'Cause in my eyes, right, like, I think we just grew up with social. Yeah. So, like, in my head, it's like video is my bread and butter. Yeah. I mean, this is our bread and butter.
[29:50] Like, we're good at video, we're good at photo. Mm-hmm. Right? It's like that whole world- But so here-... is so different to me... I think the biggest distinction is when you post on social- Yep. We don't own them.
[29:58] We don't own the audience... you don't own it, and- Mm-hmm... it'll get shown to a percentage. Yeah. Yeah. I own email, like that email list I can mail to whenever I want to.
[30:09] Uh, and so, A, it's an owned asset, and B, I'm much more, I've got much more control over who sees it.
[30:15] Not just because I can hit send, but because I'm in control of-The things which are gonna make me wanna read an email is firstly the from name. So if, if I've got... If I've been spammed by you for six months,
[30:26] the reputation... Yeah, it's like, well, I'm much less likely to read a Taki email, because the last 10 were shit. But if they're good- Mm... people look forward to it. Mm.
[30:36] I've got people who buy our programs a- and when they buy, the automation takes them out of the marketing list. Mm. And they're like, "Oh, I still wanna get those emails."
[30:43] \[laughs\] Like, I get thank you emails or, "That's the funniest thing I've read all week," every single day. It didn't used to be that way. Um- Because you were putting less effort into them, you think?
[30:53] I put zero effort into email. Uh-huh. Uh, I'd bought back my time, thanks Dan. \[laughs\] Uh, and, uh, outsourced, outsourced my content. Uh-huh. And so I'd, like, teach a workshop for Black Belt.
[31:04] It would get transcribed, it would go off to a team of writers who would, like- Chunk it up... you take the transcript and turn it into stuff.
[31:10] And it was, like, sort of what I wanted to say, sort of how I'd say it, and it was, like, beige as hell. Like, just lame. Mm. And so two years ago,
[31:20] I just read one of the emails that was sent out with my name at the bottom, and I was just full of shame. And I was like, "This is embarrassing." I'm like,
[31:27] "I don't ever want someone to read a bad email with my name on it, um, so I'm gonna take it back over, but I'm only gonna do it for six weeks, because longer felt scary." So I'm gonna... In a
[31:37] little experiment, I'm gonna send an email every day, and at the end of six weeks, the test is, like, did we send something every day that I wrote? Did it work better than the stuff that the content team was writing?
[31:48] And did I enjoy it? Mm. And if it was three yeses, then we'll keep going. Thank God it was three yeses. Um, and now all of my content starts with... All of my short-form content starts with email,
[32:02] because then you- So you write the email first, and then you make a short-form piece of content about it? Yeah. And I'm not saying that's how you have to do it. I think we don't have to be everywhere.
[32:08] I'm only on Instagram and YouTube and, and email. Mm. So I'm not on all the other platforms. But we've gotta have a place where it starts.
[32:15] And so for me, YouTube starts with, like, I run something for Black Belt, then we run a public workshop for it, and then we do a YouTube about it.
[32:22] Um, when I'm doing the public workshop, then I'm gonna write a bunch of emails about the topic, and if I'm doing the emails, I'm gonna shoot some reels and make a carousel.
[32:30] And so in a week, I create this, like, body of work around one topic, which is fun, that I can reuse for other stuff if I want to. And then next week, I've got a, a new topic, a new thing, and a clean slate.
[32:41] I don't feel like I'm on a treadmill, because I'm like... It's like a project. Mm. It starts and it finishes, and it's done, and it's good, and then I can move on to the next thing.
[32:47] Is there anything about email in particular that the average person wouldn't know besides just, like, blasting off to this group?
[32:53] Like, is there any segmenting that's going on, where you're like, "Well, this group opened and they're interested. I'm going to maybe bump them once"? Is there something that, like, you can tell our group about- Yeah...
[33:03] email that you have figured out on this journey? Yeah, but it's not, it's not anything techy. Nothing techy, okay. Yeah, I don't do- None of this shit- I-... where it's tag this person and- I think best practice, yeah.
[33:13] Yes. I don't do that. Okay. Um... \[laughs\] I love that. The thing that makes it work, and I think it's true for all content, is like, is there a topic you're energized by? Like, more than anything else.
[33:25] Like- So fair, yeah. Yeah, so the... Every piece of content where these two things are true for me bangs, and every time I don't, it doesn't, and it's like, am I writing about something I'm energized about?
[33:37] And we'll talk about how in a second, because I think it's useful. And then do I have an opinion? And if you've, if you're energized about it, it comes through.
[33:45] Like, just think about, like, making a video that you actually give a shit about. You, like, you deliver. Yeah. And do you have an opinion? Because that gets you cut through. So I think those, those two are foundational.
[33:54] And then you find your style. Mine are usually, um, something funny happens, and I write about it and turn it into a business lesson. Mm. So we're in Japan a week ago, and... Have you been to Japan? No. I have.
[34:07] Coastis has. You have? Okay, fast. I'm, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go soon. Right, it's the best. Japanese toilets are awesome. \[laughs\] So we're gonna go there, right?
[34:13] So I'm sitting on this Japanese toilet, my pants are around my ankles, and I'm about to press the flush button, but there's like seven buttons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[34:19] And they're all labeled in Japanese or braille, and I don't speak Japanese or read braille. \[laughs\] So I'm like, "Oh, well, I don't know what the buttons do."
[34:26] So I get my Google Translate app, and I'm hovering over the top with the camera. Mm. And it translates, one of the buttons says ass video. What?
[34:32] \[laughs\] And I'm like, "I don't know what that means, but it sounds terrifying." So I take a screenshot and I send it m- to Mike, uh, my mate Ken, who's Japanese. Mm-hmm. I'm like, "Bro, I'm on the toilet right now.
[34:41] I need your help. Google Translate says I should press the button called ass video. What does it do?" He goes, "Don't worry, it doesn't record. It finds, like, the dark spot and aims the water jet." Shut the fuck up.
[34:51] I'm like, "Well, that sounds safe." So I press it, and sure enough, like, perfect accuracy. And, uh... \[laughs\] So that was funny. \[laughs\] Wait. Hang on. That's also crazy, because I always wondered, as far as a, uh...
[35:06] What, a bidet? A bidet. Yeah. Yeah, but dude, the regular, the cheaper ones don't do that shit. Yeah, I was like- You might have to jump. You might have to be like, "Yo, yo, yo."
[35:11] I was like, I'm really hoping it hits the right area. Yeah, right. Bro, Landry had one installed at 505. It was- Yeah... freaked me out all the time. I'm like- That's hilarious... this thing is awesome.
[35:18] So, like, my world is like, half my job is noticing stuff. Mm-hmm. And then, okay, so I've got this toilet story that's funny, and I wanna sell business coaching. How the fuck do we do that?
[35:27] And so, um, there's this book, I haven't read it, but it's a good title. It's like- \[laughs\]... Everything I Learned... You can learn a lot more- Just by the title... 100%. Most books, you don't need to read.
[35:37] That's actually... Hey, that's fair. Yeah, it's fair. You gotta judge a book by the cover. The headline, dude. The headline matters. Right. I just wanna read the fucking headline.
[35:42] Most books have, like, the idea's in the title. Yeah. Um, so there's this book called Everything I Learned About... Everything I Know About Business I Learned in Kindergarten. I'm like, "Okay, cool."
[35:49] So there's gonna be a bunch of kindergarten lessons applied to business. I just do that with life. Mm. And so, um, this is gonna get disgusting for a minute. I apologize to all of our loyal watchers.
[36:00] If you unsubscribe, it's my fault, not theirs. Um, so I'm like, "All right, what's the business lesson here?" Well, what makes that toilet amazing is it's super accurate.
[36:08] I'm like, "Well, I wish most, more business coaches were like Japanese toilets." You know, you come in with a problem, they just throw a bunch of ideas at you, and they, they don't really help.
[36:16] They just smear the problem around. \[laughs\] And it's messy, and it doesn't fix it, and you stink, and nobody wants to hang around you.But we take a really different approach. We use the Japanese ass video.
[36:25] \[laughs\] Right? This is the email. Mm-hmm. Um, we find the actual constraint. Mm-hmm. And then w- instead of doing 100 things, we just do the two things which are really gonna clean up that mess.
[36:35] And so now I've just taken Japanese toilet- Mm-hmm... funny story, and connected it to- Business strategy... business strategy. Mm-hmm.
[36:41] So most of my stuff is, like, notice something that happens and find a way to tie it into stuff, and that makes video...
[36:46] uh, that makes emails really fun and videos really fun, because now you're not just doing the three steps to X. Which is boring. Yeah. So it's like see something- Mm... make something- Yeah... share something.
[36:57] That's my process. As a coach who coaches- Coaches... coaches. It's super incestuous, dude. How do you, um, how do you make content? Because you're hitting...
[37:12] Like, everyone that you are talking to- Yeah... is selling something, but it's all over the place. Like, everyone has these different niches. Yeah.
[37:22] Do you think that it just doesn't matter what their offer is or what their program is? It's like you're able to speak to a m- Yeah...
[37:31] more general, like, business issue that can be tangible information regardless of what they're selling. Does that make sense? I think so. Um- Like, for example- Yeah...
[37:42] this, the, the email that you sent out about the Japanese toilet. Yeah. Are you just like, "This is the concept"? That's a principle, right? There's no- Mm-hmm.
[37:52] Like, I think if you think about every idea lives in, like, context. Mm-hmm. Like, generally speaking, what's it about?
[37:56] Then there's the concept, like the, the key point, and then there's the content, which is the specific application. Yeah. The top two is transferable to kinda everybody.
[38:07] The specific implementation's gonna change a little bit based on niche, but I've always thought of myself like a, um... I don't know if this stuff translates into American. I'll try. Okay, give it a shot.
[38:18] Um, you have Jell-O, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We call it jelly. Okay. When you make Jell-O, you put it into, you pour it into a mold. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I've always thought of my stuff as, like, a Jell-O mold.
[38:27] And so, like, I've figured out the framework for how to sell coaching or deliver coaching or whatever, and they need to pour in their,
[38:33] you know, their content, which is, you know, what do you believe about it and for your audience, and your personality. So my, my job is the structure, and their job's the, the unis, and then it bangs. Mm. It, um...
[38:45] The... Like, a business coach is a business coach is a business coach. If you sell to accountants or lawnmower repairmen or whatever, th- that stuff's the same. Are they just all over the place when you...
[38:55] Like, have you seen just the craziest- I had a dude who sold an $8,000 how to do a handstand program. Wow. And for the life of me... Like, eight grand to learn how to do a handstand.
[39:04] I'm like, "I don't know who's paying that money," but people did. What? I swear to God. No. Yep. Um- How to do a handstand. For eight grand. What? Right. What did he... W- Okay. I would do it for a backflip.
[39:16] Wait, no, no. Yeah, I would probably do that. Yeah, I would totally do it for a back... 'Cause that's a fun party trick. I would do it for abs. Did he- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
[39:20] did he pa- did he play more into- I don't-... the fear or the... No, he was like, "You could be the guy who can do handstands." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. That's unreal. I don't understand it. Uh-huh. Um,
[39:34] I think the coolest niche I ever heard, I didn't, never met this person, but a friend of mine did, was the, um...
[39:38] He was at a conference with coaches, and you had to, like, turn to your neighbor and say- Oh, yeah, yeah... you know, what do you do? And she was, like, the i- she said, "I'm the instant millionaire coach."
[39:45] He's like, "What do you mean?" She goes, "Well, you know how..." She said, "You know when someone wins the lottery? Instantly they get all this money, and within two years they're all back where they were or worse."
[39:54] She goes, "Well, I, I charge 1% of their winnings, and I show them how to, like, protect and maximize the 99% they just..." And I'm like, that's a really clever niche. Mm.
[40:02] And marketing was really easy, because she'd just, like, look in the, you know, on the, on the web for who won and just snipe these dudes. It's genius. \[laughs\] That's actually brilliant. It's actually brilliant.
[40:12] And you know they got the money to spend. And you're never gonna- 100%. You never run out of customers. Never run out of customers. That is funny. Yeah, she's got a never-ending, never-ending game.
[40:19] Yeah, and they've got cash. Yeah, they definitely got cash. It's like... And the, kind of, economics works out. Wow. Anyway. Man, that's awesome. Okay, I do wanna get tactical. Yeah.
[40:28] And you have this new method called the BRICK method, and you were explaining it to us. I hate that YouTube title. The idea is great. \[laughs\] Somebody suggested that title. I shouldn't have done it. But it's doing well.
[40:38] It's, it's performing well. Yeah, it's doing well. It's the, it's the coolest thing that I, that I've figured out lately. Okay, well, let's talk about it, because... And you can totally draw, if that would help. Yes.
[40:47] Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah, that would help you explain. That'd be, that'd be super helpful. Dude, let's draw.
[40:49] And I think what's, what's super interesting is, like, we touched on it a little bit earlier, you touched on it, is, um, y- I think you run into a lot of people saying kinda the same stuff. The same thing.
[40:58] Maybe regurgitated. Yeah. And- Or they steal from you. That's a fun one. That happens a lot. Yeah. Um, I'm kinda used to that now. Um, and I'm not worried about it. I think in the, in the old days, the way I'd...
[41:11] You know, the way you'd protect your stuff is to, you know, hide it behind a paywall, and I think the way you protect your stuff now is you're the first one to say it in public.
[41:18] And then people are like, "Oh, that's cool. It sounds a lot like Taki." Mm. Um, so the thing that this solves is, yeah, there's a lot of people saying the same stuff.
[41:26] And plus or minus, you know, 5 or 10%, all of your competitors are saying the same things, like making the same promises, launching the same offers, giving the same advice.
[41:36] And because of that, almost everyone in your market is doing it the same way. And if, if we let that roll, we end up with kinda marketing incest. Like- Mm-hmm...
[41:47] we're all getting a little bit dumber, a little bit uglier every generation, 'cause we're all copying each other's stuff.
[41:51] And so when somebody says, "Oh, my market's really crowded," like, I'm really excited, because that means that there's a, there's a market there. And it's really easy to win.
[41:58] When everyone else is saying the same stuff, all we have to be is a bit different. So the metaphor is this. Um, years ago, I, I met this couple. It was, uh... He went by Thor.
[42:09] I think his actual name was Gulliver, but Thor is cooler, so he was, like, Thor. Yeah, way cooler. Yeah. Um,
[42:14] and he didn't have a big audience, but every time he posted on Facebook, this is going back, like, 10 years or eight years or something, there'd be, like, hundreds and hundreds of comments, and it'd be like, it'd be like a bar fight in there.
[42:24] It was like everyone's, like, battling. "No, you frigging idiot." It's like Republicans and Democrats. Mm-hmm.In a WWE SmackDown. \[laughs\] It was literally so violent in there.
[42:31] I'm like, "Man, how do you get this kind of engagement?" He said, "Well, my marketing strategy's really easy. I find a window and I throw a brick through it." I'm like, "Huh."
[42:37] And so lately I've been thinking a lot about contrarian takes, uh, 'cause the way you get cut through is you have an opinion about something that most people don't. And so, I say contrarian, not controversial.
[42:48] I'm not doing it for controversy's sake. But if you've got a legitimately different opinion about how something should be, you need to say that. And so the, the metaphor is- Is that recording? Should we screen record?
[42:58] Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. We should definitely record. I'm really glad you said that. Oh, uh, press and hold it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you got it. And I'll turn... And I'll put my mic on so it records that too.
[43:04] Dude, you're, you're, you're a professional. I'm sorry about bringing that up. Yeah, no, I didn't- I'm so glad you said- I didn't mean, I didn't mean to ask that, man. I'm sorry. I don't feel offended.
[43:09] \[laughs\] I've been asked dumber questions in the h- and come up short with- Perfect... actually no good answer. Hold on, we're gonna clap- Yeah, yeah, yeah... so we just know for the- So we get the... iPad? \[claps\] Okay.
[43:17] Okay. Aiee. \[laughs\] Um, so if you think about it, everyone in your market is all looking at the market through the same window, the same sheet of glass.
[43:28] Uh, and so the way you get cut through, you c- like, you can't spend more because they're spending more too.
[43:33] You can't beat them on volume because everyone's doing more volume, and now there's AI, so there's even more volume. And so the only way to cut through is you just, um,
[43:43] you just gotta throw the brick of a brand-new idea through the conventional wisdom. And so the activity is you go out of all the things that I teach, what does everybody say? What does everybody do?
[43:54] You just make this big fat list, especially for stuff that you think is kinda dumb. Um, bonus points if you've got, uh... Like, first thing, you need a different take.
[44:05] But bonus points if you've actually done it and you got some results, because then you, you got proof.
[44:09] When you say dumb, do you mean what your competitors are saying that you think is not correct, or you, do you mean dumb when it's like you've been doing it for so long that you think everybody knows this information?
[44:19] I mean the first. Okay. Yeah. So if there's something you, that everyone's saying that you think is stupid, not like, um, this is beginner information. I mean, yeah, that doesn't work, or that's
[44:32] not actually being a good human. Um, so like we, we did one before with free webinar. Everyone, everyone says free webinar. Cool.
[44:40] But what if you could do paid workshop and you get paid twice, once when they buy a ticket, so now your marketing is free, and once again when they buy, and you separate the buyers from the broke tire kickers?
[44:50] That's a new idea. And so, um, the way I think about it is if we, um... I don't think I've ever drawn with a microphone in my way. I'm just gonna lean this way and see if we can. \[laughs\] Okay. Um,
[45:07] we call this thing bricks, right? And so a brick's job is, number one, break an old belief, smash through a window, and then number two, build a, in- ins- build a new belief.
[45:14] And so the, the break piece is you start by what's the, um, what's the problem that they're trying to solve? Mm. And so that's, like, the, the problem or the goal. Um,
[45:29] and I think what we're really trying to do is, uh, Ryan Holiday wrote a book called The Obstacle's the Way. It's like a stoic book. Mm. And that's a great ti- I haven't read it. \[laughs\] It's one of those.
[45:38] But I was thinking about the title as, like, actually sometimes the way is the obstacle.
[45:41] Like, the thing that everyone's trying to do to solve that problem is actually creating or making the problem worse, and that's how I think about this. And so our job is to, like, break their certainty about the old way.
[45:50] And so what we do is we go, um, there's this old way that everyone teaches, and then we show the flaw or the mistake that, you know, here's why I think it's dumb. Mm. And then we show the cost of doing it that way. So,
[46:03] uh, you wanna get more clients, and everyone tells you the best way to get clients is to run free webinars. Okay. Here's what's dumb about that. You promote this thing. You spend a bunch on a, a bunch on ads.
[46:13] The people who show up to the webinars are the dudes who've got time to spend two hours on your, like- Mm... two-hour dry hump. And- \[laughs\] Uh, and the people you really want are successful and busy- Yeah...
[46:23] and probably won't show up anyway. And so you're spending a bunch of money to attract the people you actually don't want. What does that cost you? Well, it costs you time on workshop.
[46:30] It costs you the opportunity of not getting the guys you want, and you end up, like, being really disappointed in your conversion rate because you're casting your pearls before swine.
[46:38] So what we've just done is we've just, like, loosened the grip of the old way a little bit. Mm. And so now I think you get to this place where people are open and receptive to, "Okay, well,
[46:48] you've told me the old way's done, but may... Is, is there a better way? Have you got something for me?" And so then we just do the same thing in, in reverse, and we go, "Well, there's this new better way.
[46:57] It's a paid workshop." Mm. Or, um, yeah.
[47:03] Or, uh, you know, the only way to sign high-ticket clients is with sale- sales calls, and we explain that sales calls are great to get started but not fun afterwards and blah, blah, blah. So then we show the new way,
[47:14] and then we do the, you know, the proof that the new way's better. And so generally speaking, the biggest mistake that people make with content is they say they teach stuff that they haven't actually done. Mm. Mm-hmm.
[47:27] Um, and so Kanye West, he's like, um, you know, "I do dope shit, and I live a dope life." That's the secret here. It's not just, like, talk about stuff. We wanna do something cool and then tell people about it, not...
[47:39] Everyone's content would be way better if they stopped making videos for a, a couple of weeks and did something cool and then told the story.
[47:45] Um, so we show the new better way, we prove that it works, and we talk about the benefits. So this is just the exact same journey, but in reverse. And then we make an invitation to do whatever the next step with,
[47:57] with you is. Mm. And that's how we don't just, like, break an old belief, but we get to, like, install a new one. And I think, um, when we do that,
[48:07] you get cut through 'cause you're solving the same problems that everybody else is preaching too, but you're, you've got a genuinely new idea.
[48:15] What have been the biggest brick breakthrough moments for you over this last year? I mean, a ton. So, um- No sales team. Yeah. So free webinar to paid workshop was one. Yeah. Sales team to salesless was a game changer.
[48:30] Uh-Relying on ads to figuring out how to make content, bang, was another. But my whole career is really just have a problem, solve it- Mm... and then tell people what I did. Um, yeah, there's a ton.
[48:47] Like, the way we run our client events is super different to how they used to be. It used to be, like, two days, 9:00 to 5:00, walk in, we're gonna do this one thing, and people leave, like, excited but exhausted.
[48:58] And now we work in the mornings and we play all afternoon. Uh, because the event's really about all the stuff you can't do on Zoom. So there's, like, bricks and windows for all of the stuff. Mm.
[49:06] You talking about that just made me think of, like, our stuff particularly, and one of the videos that did super well for you was, like, you're working with all the boring businesses. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yes.
[49:18] 'Cause doesn't everybody- I saw that ad. It's killer Oh, you did? Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. 'Cause everyone, everyone says that, right?
[49:22] They're like, "You, to make profitable money, you have to work with the boring, unsexy businesses," and that's not true. That is not true.
[49:30] You can work with the sexy businesses, it's just harder and your stuff has to be better. Because, like, if your stuff sucks, fundamentally, if I'm a big, cool brand, I'm like- Yeah... there's a mismatch here.
[49:38] Like, you look at our- This guy shoots weddings. Yeah. You look at our brand and you look at what you're doing, it just, there's a huge mismatch here. Completely. You know? So you're saying, like,
[49:45] not only can you make more money, but you can do it by working with the gangsters in the- You can work with the sexy brands that are the Fortune 1000s.
[49:51] Because everyone who is, I think, in our space and selling a high-ticket thing like we are- Mm... their whole thing is- HVAC, plumbers, and I'm like, you don't have- Go after these- You don't have to do that...
[50:03] like, the boring businesses that have a lot of money. There's money to be made, for sure. Of course, for sure. And there's money to be made at all- But no one wants to be-... sides of that No one wants to do that. Yeah.
[50:11] Is that what you want on your tombstone, buddy? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. \[laughs\] Yeah, "Shot videos of plumbers." \[laughs\] Yeah. No. You know? Yeah, no.
[50:17] It's- Shout out to my plumbers But that, even just you drawing that out and explaining it again made me realize, like, yeah, we probably should- That's a go grab what all-... that angle...
[50:25] competitors are doing, see it, see what you disagree with. Yeah. 'Cause they're al- always, I think, in any, in any company or in any business, you're gonna see things and be like, "That is true.
[50:35] You're saying something true there." Yeah. But there's also, like, 60% of what you say that's fundamentally wrong because we're doing it. You're a practitioner. Do you find that a lot of coaches try to, um...
[50:48] Maybe they've have done a little bit- Mm... but they try to sell the dream a little bit more and make it seem like they have more, um, validation than they actually have? Yeah. I think that's pretty common. Mm.
[50:59] That's what makes our industry kinda gross. Yeah. Yeah. At its worst. Mm-hmm. Um, but what's cool about you guys is you don't just talk about content.
[51:07] Like, there's a bunch of people teaching videography, but you guys actually do it. Yeah. Mm. And that's, I don't know if this will stay this way, but, like, that's the core business and this is the m- m-...
[51:17] I know side hustle's not the right word- Yeah. Yeah... but you know what I mean. I get what you mean. Um, so anytime I've got, I've got a great client who coaches plumbers, shout out to plumbers again. \[laughs\] Um,
[51:27] and they had a plumbing business. And they kept the plumbing business for years and years and years because they got to say, "Well, this is what we're doing in our business- Yeah. Mm...
[51:32] and here's how it relates to you," and that's cool. Um, I think there's a lot of talking, and the reason that Hormozi and, you know, all the people who, whose content is like you instantly know- Yeah...
[51:42] this stuff is legit is 'cause they're doing stuff and then just, "Here's what I did." Yeah. You have the gym launch story. You've got the gym launch story. This is, this is what we did. Yeah. On acquisition.com.
[51:50] Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, all the other stories. Yeah. Versus, "Oh, I need to make content about this stuff," and haven't actually done anything yet. Mm.
[51:56] And that doesn't mean don't make content, it just means, like, it's stuff that you do in your own business and stuff you do with clients. That's just a super rich tapestry of, like, ideas for you.
[52:06] And so, like, if you haven't done anything cool yourself but you got your seven HVAC clients that you got told to sell, well, do something cool with them and then tell that story. Mm. Yeah.
[52:15] Okay, I wanna keep drawing because I think it- Yeah... it- I like the drawing... gets the cool stuff. I like the drawing. You had a diamond thing. Offer. Yes. Yeah. This is what we chatted about just before. Yes.
[52:23] I can sketch. Ooh. Yes. Um- More sketch. Let's just sketch the whole time. Dude, let's sketch. All right, fine. \[laughs\] This is called the offer diamond. Uh,
[52:33] we said before that really we're just trying to count, uh, get the right balance between, um, reward on the right-hand side of, you know, what do I get, and risk on the downside.
[52:46] And we wanna obviously remove as much of the risk as we can and make the reward really clear and obvious and heavy. Uh, and the, which gives us, like, bad side over here and, and good side over here.
[52:58] And the levers to pull are promise... Oops. Try not to draw with a stupid pen. Is promise, and to the idea of offer wrapping before, it's not, it doesn't have to be the, the end promise that we change.
[53:11] It's like, can we just tweak the opening? Mm. And that's really easy to, to tweak each, each week or each month. Uh, then we've got bonuses. Most people stack bonuses and try to throw everything at it.
[53:24] People don't want more from you, they want, like, just enough. The biggest reason somebody cancels a service like, like ours would be like, "I'm overwhelmed." And so they don't want more stuff. Mm.
[53:35] They want less stuff that actually helps. Interesting. Um, so during COVID when everyone was freaking out, I was in Australia and it was gnarly, and so we went to, like, a coaching call every single day.
[53:45] So just to get everyone through, and it was great.
[53:46] But after COVID, when things are back to normal, we're doing a coaching call every day, and they're like, "Okay, well, I only come to the one on Wednesday morning, so there's these four calls I'm not using but I'm still paying for them.
[53:57] The easiest... Like, and I feel guilty. I should show up more, but I'm not." The easiest way to stop feeling guilty is to stop paying for the stuff, which is dumb- Uh-huh... but it's normal. So guess what?
[54:03] Now we just do, uh, one workshop with me on a Friday and a workshop with the coaching team on Wednesdays. And so they come to their one thing and, and they get what they need.
[54:14] Um, so the bonuses should be how do I get a better outcome, how do I make it faster, how do I make it easier? Um, and AI's a really good tool for that.
[54:22] Um, on the other side is r- risk reversal, so we just call that guarantee. Um, and it's basically the, you've made this promise, and this answers the, "But what if it doesn't work for me?" Mm.
[54:35] So-I'll refund your money- Mm... or I'll work with you for free until we do, or I'll refund your money and I'll give you 1,000 bucks to go to this other competitor, or whatever your version of that is. Mm.
[54:44] Uh, and then pay plan, this is super interesting. Um, really it's about making it safe for people to get started, and when you have a program that's paid, uh, upfront, people focus on that number.
[54:55] If you give them like the, "It's this much per month," they focus on that number. I've got a few clients who do weekly billing- Mm... um, because the numbers are small.
[55:02] Just like, you know, you can sponsor a child in Ethiopia for a dollar a day. A dollar a day, yeah. Um, you know, it's a dollar. They're not going, "It's $365." Mm. They're going, "It's a dollar." Mm.
[55:13] Um, and the clever thing about weekly billing is if it's over the course of a year, you know, you get 52, you know, billing cycles instead of 12 months.
[55:25] If you do the maths, you get 13 months' worth of money for 12 months' worth of work, so you make an extra 8%, but it feels cheaper. Mm. Which is kinda n- ninja. Um, and then the last piece is urgency
[55:37] and scarcity, and so we're always leveraging... Urgency's easy for workshops because it's, you know, it's at this time, and so the train's leaving the station. And scarcity's, like, limited number of spots.
[55:47] And the truth is that most of us couldn't work with... Like, if you got 10,000 clients tomorrow, you'd probably die or the business would break, and so there's a, an actual real scarcity number, and
[55:58] f- like, an actual supply constraint, and most of us just don't use it in our marketing enough. Mm.
[56:04] If you were me with the production company stuff, 'cause we're doing really well just making videos for these brands, right? But I want more inbound to then convert this group- Mm-hmm... to working with us on videos.
[56:16] And the ones that can't, totally fine, we can still help them with, like, their strategy and whatnot. Yeah. Do you feel like we would have to do something that is, like, a workshop for them so we could do one to many?
[56:26] Or do you think it would make more sense to just try to get them on, like, a strategy call, give them game, and then say, "Oh, by the way, I feel like this would really help you."
[56:34] 'Cause I have no problem getting on the phone, but I'm like, was that the f- best way to get the original first 10 or 20 of them and then switch to something that's like- Yeah... workshop?
[56:42] So I would do sales calls for my first five guys if I'm launching a new offer. Mm-hmm. But you've sold this already a bunch. Yeah, we've sold it a bunch, just not, like, productized like that.
[56:50] Like, someone would come and I'm like, "Oh, we're gonna... This is going to be an add-on." Yeah. "This thing is gonna be five grand or something." Yeah. "And we're gonna help you with that."
[56:57] Yeah, so you could totally just pull the strat- Like, whether you do the strategy as a separate piece or not, you can't just go there and shoot videos. You need a plan. Yes, exactly.
[57:04] And so you could totally sell the plan as step number one. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's great, and that's like, that's tweaking the, the promise. Mm-hmm.
[57:10] You know, it's like the first thing we do is we, we figure out your content strategy. Yeah.
[57:13] And do you think, you think running ads to just a page to get them to book a call, or do you think I have to do workshop and then- No. No. You can do either. Mm-hmm.
[57:22] Um, the thing I've learnt, the longer I do this, like, everything works, and so then it really comes down to so what works for you. Mm. And it's not even niche dependent, it's mostly you dependent. Mm.
[57:34] Like, if you're, if you're a single mom with three kids at home, you don't wanna be on sales calls all the time. So we're gonna go sales calls or we're gonna do a workshop. Um, if you enjoy the calls, then you should...
[57:45] then you can get someone on a call. If you don't enjoy the calls, then you can run workshop. Mm-hmm. And there's a bunch of people in the video space who just have a very clear offer. Mm.
[57:53] Like, "We're gonna get you a million views in 90 days." Okay, well, I don't need a call. I can point to the outcome, and I'll give you the money for that. Mm.
[57:59] Or you've been posting content for ages, and it's not really hitting. It's because you don't have a strategy. Um, you're, you're posting stuff.
[58:06] It gets no shares, it gets no likes, it gets no engagement, it's driving no leads, and it's because these five things are missing. So we're gonna jump on a call, and it's 500 bucks, and you buy my...
[58:13] and I'll give you the strategy. And if you want u- us to implement the plan, we can chat about that afterwards. But if not, you've got a great plan you can run with on your own. Mm. That's an offer. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[58:22] So I'm never gonna tell anyone, "You must workshop or you must call," 'cause- It can, both can be true... 'cause all of it can work. All of it can be, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[58:31] Like, you've already sold this thing with workshops, and you've sold it with calls. They both work. It's like, okay, well, how do I want my week to look? Mm. Mm. Yeah. It's so funny. It's like you're, um, \[laughs\]
[58:43] I feel like you're in the business of just, like, these are the different ways you can do it. Choose what works best for you. Yeah. And so that's new. Love that. Like, I've alwa- Yeah.
[58:53] I've always been really jealous of competitors who've got, like, "This is the method, this is the way." Oh, interesting. 'Cause it's really easy to sell. Mm-hmm. You're like, "This is the one mechanism." Yeah.
[59:00] Email doesn't work, you must do- Video, whatever. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Or video doesn't work, you need to do this kind of video, or whatever it is. Mm-hmm.
[59:06] And so they've got a very linear one st- you know, like, step-by-step plan. That's really easy to sell, and it gives people a bunch of certainty. I just don't believe that it's accurate. Yeah.
[59:13] And we, yeah, we don't either, and we've found that, you know? Like, it can all, it can be true. So then the, then the thing is, um, to the Japanese toilet callback,
[59:23] like, well, if it all works and you try everything, you end up smearing mess everywhere. Mm.
[59:28] But instead, we just wanna, like, so every client who starts with us, the very first thing we do is we figure out, like, their, this is the jigsaw puzzle, these are all the options.
[59:34] We're not gonna do those bits, but this one here fits you and that one fits you. And for you, let's tweak them like that. And so part of our work really is customizing- Mm...
[59:44] um, so that you end up with something that fits you like a glove that you can do kinda effortlessly forever. Okay, so let's go into that. Yeah. Most of the people that you're working with
[59:52] are making six figures a year coaching- Yeah... and they wanna get to seven? Well, they wanna get to more. Sure. Yeah, just more, yeah. Okay. Yeah. What are those main roadblocks that you see people dealing with? Yeah.
[1:00:06] And, um, what are maybe the most common things that you can share or that you teach that- I can share all of it, dude... yeah. I'm not, there's nothing hidden. Um- Yes...
[1:00:15] are there, are there, like, main things that you see, like, common things you see, um, that keep people from, from scaling their coaching businesses? Yeah. There's heaps. \[laughs\] Okay. Um, so this is the...
[1:00:28] Do you have a, do you have any friends who do jigsaw puzzles? Probably not, 'cause you're young and cool. No. My wife loves jigsaw puzzles. I freaking hate them. You know, like sudoku or something. Love sudoku.
[1:00:36] I was playing Wordscape with my fiancée on the way back from North Carolina. Wordscape. So- Okay. You've seen a jigsaw puzzle before.They're awful. I hate them. \[laughs\] Same.
[1:00:46] It's like 1,000 pieces on a table for, like, a week while she figures out the spots. Mm-hmm. Mm. Uh, imagine doing a jigsaw puzzle without being able to see the picture on the top of the box. Mm-hmm.
[1:00:53] Really freaking hard. So the first thing we do is we go, "Okay, here's what the top of the box looks like if it's done and done right." Um, checking that's still recording, and it is.
[1:01:03] Uh, so the first thing we wanna figure out is, like, out of all the options, what's a hell no?
[1:01:10] Because often we get confused with, like, I should be doing this, or I saw that on the internet, I should do that, I should, I should, I should, and we end up, like, shooting all over ourselves. So we were just like,
[1:01:17] first thing is, like, cut off the hell nos. So, um, the customer journey goes, uh, attract, which is like lead generation, and then lead nurture, and then conversion, and then client, you know, delivery.
[1:01:29] We usually start at the back, and we go, "Okay, so we're either selling something short or we're selling something long. Which one is it?" Well, we're selling a short cohort, so I'm just gonna take MRR off the table.
[1:01:37] We call this a hero program. Mm. And we can dig into that if we need to. Okay, cool. So in order for that thing to sell, regardless of what we're selling, it needs a great offer, which is the diamond we just drew before.
[1:01:47] So there's gonna be a, an offer diamond. Are we gonna sell it with calls? Are we... Uh, sorry, with calls, or are we gonna sell it straight off a page? Well, right now we're selling with calls. Mm-hmm. Okay? So
[1:02:00] that's our path, and I'm gonna cross doc off for now. Um, so this is really a process of elimination as mu- 'cause this is, like, everything you could do, but we don't need all of it. Uh, then lead nurture.
[1:02:14] We've got, um, chat, and then your DM. Mm. We've got email, which we're not sending enough. \[laughs\] \[laughs\] We've got long form that you guys crush. Yeah. And maybe there's a VSL. Yeah. Is that true? Yes.
[1:02:24] There's a VSL? Yeah, I would've thought so given you guys. Okay, cool. And then the lead gen piece is, for us, it usually starts with short form content. Mm. So it's, it's daily. Mm. We're gonna do something short form.
[1:02:34] Uh, each week we're gonna offer a micro magnet, a lead magnet that doesn't teach you anything but just gets you an outcome. Mm. GPTs are great for that. I had a question about GPT. Yeah.
[1:02:43] 'Cause you trained yours, and it talks just like you. I didn't train mine, Toni did. Okay. She's amazing. How do you train a GPT? She spends, she spends 20 hours on each one of those little things. Wow.
[1:02:55] Uh- 'Cause it's incredible. Plugging in how you speak, a, a transcript. And what the rules are. Yeah. Uh-huh. This is... Yeah. This is- This is the outcome, how you get to this outcome 20 different ways. Com- completely.
[1:03:03] So there's like the process, which is, you know, ask these questions to deliver this output, and that's a piece of it. Um, but they're really trained to talk like Taki,
[1:03:12] um, and to push back where I'd push back, and to dig deep. Um, I wish I could tell you how she does it. I don't know. I just know that- I was just so curious, like, does... do you do it on GPT...
[1:03:24] Like, if we wanna do an... Like, if we wanted to train a GPT, I don't even know how to even start training it. I bet we could, I bet we could ask it. Yeah, probably. \[laughs\] Yeah.
[1:03:32] So one of the things that, that we do is we build a, it's called an ABC doc- Mm...
[1:03:37] um, for each client, and ABC is, uh, A is the avatar, so it wants to know a lot about them, their secret fears, frustrations, wants and aspirations, their business, da da da, to the point where they'd read it and be like, "Holy shit, you've been camping out in my head."
[1:03:52] Then the B is your business, like what do you sell, and who's it for, and, and what are the programs, and the price points, and all that stuff. And then C is character. This is, like, your tone of voice and personality.
[1:04:01] And so all of the GPTs have that in their instructions. It's like, read this, um- God, I could total- I could just talk for an hour into it and give it all the things. Yeah. Yeah, it's just a- Yeah...
[1:04:11] it's an interview process. Uh-huh. Uh, and if you've got content, probably less these kind of... 'cause it's- Sure. Mm-hmm... but if you've got, like, um, where it's, it's about you, that content.
[1:04:23] Yeah, we have some solo ups. Yeah. That we could throw in there. Yep. Or your course material. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure. All of that stuff gets fed in. Oh, yeah, we have calls. So you've got heaps of that, right? Yeah.
[1:04:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and any kind of group coaching call which knows how you think. Like, so that's like, that's how you get the tone, right? Mm-hmm. That's it. Um,
[1:04:39] I feel like we're far away from where we started. Yeah, sorry. You're all right. Um- I'm sorry. No, don't be silly. You fucked it up, man. It's fi- it's totally fine. It's great. Uh,
[1:04:48] and so we've got, like, a daily, weekly, monthly rhythm. Mm. Daily is short form content, often but not always boosted or ads run to it to amplify. Weekly there's a, a lead generator. Once a month there's a workshop.
[1:05:00] And so we're just, with a client we're like, "This is the menu of options, and let's figure out what you need."
[1:05:06] Um, and so we start the coaching process with a picture of what the puzzle looks like when it's done, and hopefully half of the pieces we can throw out.
[1:05:14] And at its worst it's like a, I don't know, a nine-piece jigsaw, which is easier than a 1,000-piece jigsaw anyway. Mm. With, with what we're doing right now, right, it's three grand. Yeah.
[1:05:22] And you, you get a group of people in. Yep. At the end of the six weeks, so many of them are like, "This was the best." Yeah. "I wanna keep going." Yeah. Right? Yeah.
[1:05:32] How do we take it from where it's at right now and get it to this, where every single month we're like ki- Like, what would- It stacks... what does that look like? 'Cause we like re- reoccurring revenue. Yeah.
[1:05:42] And we would love that. I think everyone would. Yeah, we would love that. Yeah. And that came out of, um, my son Ethan was born. Uh, in the pregnancy there was all... stuff went wrong. Mm.
[1:05:53] So we knew something was not right, and partway through, uh, like when he was a year and a half old, we found out he had cerebral palsy and autism, a bunch of stuff.
[1:06:00] And so there was times where we had to spend 10 weeks at the kids' hospital by his bed, and it was like, well, I've gotta build a business that's simple, 'cause life's not simple at all.
[1:06:09] Um, and so recurring is just a beautiful thing. Um, apparently we've got a, an annual pay option. Mm. I didn't set that up. Somebody did, 'cause a client asked.
[1:06:20] But I love recurring because it's just im- it's just simple. Um, the problem with the course model is, you know, people come in, you know, we work really hard to get, you know, people to join the program. Mm-hmm.
[1:06:33] And then they go through the three months? S- yeah, six weeks. Six weeks, rather. Yeah. And at the end, you know, they fall off. Mm-hmm. And then you've gotta go back to the start- Yeah. Mm... and refill it. Brutal game.
[1:06:43] And so every month starts at zero. Yeah.So there's two options. Um, we can... So this, the option, the current plan is they end. Mm-hmm. Okay, well, that's fine, and for some people that's the right decision.
[1:06:57] But then what if we could extend? I bet there's people who go through the program, they're like, "This is amazing.
[1:07:02] I didn't quite get it all done, and I wanna, I just wanna take my time with this or go deeper and really get good." So that's extend.
[1:07:08] So we do six weeks, and then there's an option for a lower monthly payment where they can just stay in the program. Mm-hmm. And they get, keep access to the stuff and access to the community- Mm-hmm...
[1:07:17] and access to the calls or whatever. And then there's option three, which is we can ascend. Mm. Which is I've got the basics, 'cause I bet...
[1:07:26] Remember before we were talking about everything you know versus what they need to know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, by this time they've got what they need to know to start.
[1:07:33] But if there was a chance, if there was a chance to dial in my avatar or have you guys look at my campaigns, or have you guys, like, look at my, you know, my pitch or my sales process. Mm.
[1:07:44] Or I've got this client who needs this thing and I don't know how to do it, but you guys have done it, like, a million times. Like, I think... I forgot your name. Uli. Uli. You guys met Uli through the- Yeah.
[1:07:55] And you're like, "This guy's a G." Yeah. We wanna hang out with, with Uli more, and Uli- Hired Uli. Right. So one option is you hire all these dudes. Yeah. Which happens. I mean, like- Which totally happens...
[1:08:03] I, we- I've pulled from them. Or you can, um, refer them. Mm-hmm. I bet that happens, too. Mm-hmm. But there's also an opportunity for you to go, um, "This last six weeks has been super dope. I reckon you've got
[1:08:15] something special. We should do something else together." And it, that just feels like ascend. And it might be, like, a whole nother program- Mm... or it might be something kinda light.
[1:08:24] I think the danger is that we build a whole second program and it feels heavy. So I had Black Belt for ages, and I had a group of clients who were maybe
[1:08:36] 15 or 16 or 18 of them who were like, hit a million bucks back in the day when it was, like, like, pretty unheard of. Mm. And all of my,
[1:08:46] all of my, uh, earlier stage clients would look at them as like, "Oh my God, one day I'd love to be like that guy." And these guys have, like, kinda outgrown Black Belt. What you're teaching in the one. Uh-huh.
[1:08:55] Right, 'cause I've gotta, like, I've gotta get people from 10K to a mil. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I've got these dudes at a mil,
[1:09:01] and, uh, so I was like, "I should do something with these guys, otherwise they'll leave and go somewhere else." And three things happen. You know, one, I lose the money. I wasn't super fussed about that.
[1:09:09] Two, I lose the relationship, the friendship with the, with the dope squad. And then number three, uh, the, I create, like, an aspiration gap, 'cause all the dudes they were looking up to aren't there anymore.
[1:09:17] Like, well, all of my favorites have gone over here, maybe I should go there, too. So I was like, "Okay, let's do something with this gang."
[1:09:25] And so I created a, a thing called Boardroom, and at the time it was, we'd get together three times a year for Black Belt in person. I was like, "What if we just hung out for a mastermind the day after?"
[1:09:34] And so, you know, if this was, you know, two grand a month at the time, then this was four grand a month, and the only deliverable was, um, we get this extra day and you can ping me when you want. So it was light,
[1:09:47] and that's now become, um, you know, 100 people at 60 grand, and that's fun. But it started with, "I wanna do something with this squad." And I think we just wanted to start it as, like, an experiment.
[1:09:59] Like, if it was six weeks, let, why don't we do 90 days together at the end and see if we like it? Mm. And that way you're not committed to something forever.
[1:10:06] Uh, and if you like it, we keep going, and if you don't like it, we can tweak it or kill it or whatever. But I think there's definitely an opportunity for either you've got the runs on the board, so you can stay in. Mm.
[1:10:16] Oh, sorry, you got the runs on the board, so you can ascend, or you want a bit more time, you can stay in the container. Mm. Is that helpful? Yeah, I think it, I think it is helpful.
[1:10:24] Do you think with pricing with something like that, if the core, the hero is 3K- Yeah... what do you feel like makes the most sense for ascension versus- Extension... like, yeah, extension.
[1:10:35] 'Cause a lot, I think a lot of people do break it up. Like, a lot of people go 500 bucks a month. Yeah. So you, you're not, you now, you have a group that'll pay off for six months, right?
[1:10:44] So, like, they're not going to ascend. They're going to keep what they're- Yeah, but it's also people usually choose the thing that's right for them or the thing that you put in front of them. Mm.
[1:10:51] Um, so if you give them both options, and I'm not saying that you should. Mm. I think we've got a cohort about to start probably. Mm.
[1:10:57] And so I would go, for those guys, you go back to your, your last cohort and say, "Hey, was this great? Do you want more?" Mm. "Okay, well, you can, we're about to run the next cohort. You can come at discounted rate."
[1:11:06] Mm. "Plus we'll do these extra hangs" or whatever it is. I think that's the easier model. Like, the extend is easier, 'cause it's the existing infrastructure. Mm-hmm.
[1:11:16] And then- You just keep meeting a f- a few times a month or something. Yeah, keep meeting- Mm... once a month, or you keep the Slack channel open or the- Mm-hmm... WhatsApp or the whatever it is. Um, for
[1:11:28] extend, it's either same price or slightly discounted- Mm... and on a monthly basis. And for ascend, it's usually more for longer. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. What do you- It's, it's gonna be interesting.
[1:11:40] Because it really is, like, in six weeks we teach you... It's jam-packed of information, but then it's like, if we're working with videographers- They're gonna keep getting deals...
[1:11:49] they're gonna, like, new clients- Yeah... are gonna come in. Right... and- Pricing, you're gonna change your pricing maybe. Maybe you might up it. Might, yeah.
[1:11:56] Yeah, and that way you go from, like, selling a program to building a community, which is really fun. Mm-hmm. That's what I wanted to ask you about.
[1:12:02] Do you, do you use how awesome the community is in your marketing at all? Or is it just an added bonus? I do for Boardroom, because that's, like- Is the big guns...
[1:12:16] they're the big guns, and they're, like, entry to Boardroom, like, really they're buying the community. Yeah. Um,
[1:12:22] for Black Belt, I don't talk about the community hardly at all, because I think it's the thing that people value the least on the outside, and then the most once they're on the inside. Yeah.
[1:12:31] Unless part of the community is, like, access to your friends. You know what I mean? Mm. So if I've got, if you guys were speaking at an event, then I could hype that up.
[1:12:39] But if, if I just go, "Oh, and the community's amazing," it's like, it's like, yeah, I'm not really buying this for friends. Mm-hmm. Mm. But when they get in, it's the most valuable piece. And that's what they all say.
[1:12:48] It's like the network. Yeah. The network is so powerful. Yeah. Yeah, unless you've got ways of making the networkA selling proposition Mm.
[1:12:55] Because, you know, we do these deals together, or we team up on projects or whatever. But I think for the most part people come for the content and the coaching.
[1:13:02] And so Black Belt is the intro- Six figures to seven figures... and then Boardroom is... Okay. Yeah, and there's a program called Clients down the bottom for get started, get to 10 grand. Oh, interesting.
[1:13:11] Much like your thing. Okay. Um, how important it is, how important is it in those first, like between the hit pay- Mm-hmm... and then they start the program. Yep. Like, what do you do in that- Yeah... period- That lull.
[1:13:28] That lull... to make them feel like, "I just spent a lot of money. I'm getting my money's worth. I'm getting quick wins." Yeah. How important is that? Yeah, this is great. So
[1:13:36] we're always trying to balance, particularly like I'm selling something longer than six weeks. Mm.
[1:13:41] Um, so we're trying to balance I wanna get you a quick win and ROI fast with I wanna set up a long-term relationship, and honestly, that's a tough dynamic to balance. Oh, interesting.
[1:13:51] So I'm always balancing three-year journey with a 12-month commitment, and our job in the first six weeks is th- this thing pays for itself, and it's free forever. Mm. And that's not easy.
[1:13:59] So we've got this thing that happens where somebody joins, let's say they join today, kickoff is on the first Tuesday of the month. So depending on when they bought, that could be a week or it could be three weeks.
[1:14:12] And at first I was like, oh, to your point, like, you know, I've just paid this money and now I'm sitting here and nothing's happening. Yeah. Yeah, you're waiting. You're like, "Yo, when's this thing starting?"
[1:14:18] When does this kick off? And that's how, that's how- I've got a, I've got a date, but what do I do now? That's how it felt with anything that I've ever bought. I'm like sitting there, I'm like...
[1:14:24] Then you look at your bank account and I'm like, "Yo." Yeah. "I need this to come back." \[laughs\] Okay. But then if you go, who's your favorite artist? Like, if you- there was a concert on- Kid Cudi. Who? Kid Cudi.
[1:14:33] Great. I know who that is, I promise. Okay. Um, let's pretend I knew who that was. Rapper. Yeah. So if you buy tickets to Kid Cudi, and it's in two months. Mm. Are you sitting there going, "Man, I spent the money.
[1:14:42] How come he's not at my house?" No. No, of course not- No... 'cause you're going to the fucking concert. Yeah. It's gonna be dope. Yeah.
[1:14:46] So that's my mindset now, is like, okay, you've just bought a ticket to the concert and it starts on the first Tuesday of next month.
[1:14:52] And so now my job is get them excited about that, and if I can get them ROI before they even start, amazing. Mm. So we give people this series called 10K in 10 Minutes, and- An email sequence, or- This is like-
[1:15:04] Or a- Uh, welcome aboard. Here's your kickoff date. Put that in your calendar right now. Mm. If you wanna make some quick money before we even get going, watch this series of videos, and it's six vids.
[1:15:11] Each one's 10 minutes, and it's like, it'll take you 10 minutes to watch, 10 minutes to implement. Each one should make you 10 grand. Have some fun and report in, in a couple weeks. I like that- That's interesting...
[1:15:21] 'cause see, see there's a rock who purchased for this upcoming cohort- Yeah... like a month ago. Yeah. You know? And I was like, "Listen, I'm going to call you. I wanna get you out for the races."
[1:15:29] He's already closed like a $3,000 job. It's paid for itself. It's done. Right. Right? Which is dope. He's, he's, he's like, "Yo," he's not texting me anymore. He's like, "I'm good.
[1:15:37] Like, I'm chilling until we start," you know? And I was like, "I need to get you going." Yes. So it's not just like you're waiting for three weeks like, "Yo, when's the concert, man?" Yes.
[1:15:45] And if you think about your course as like a glorified to-do list, like it's just actions. Yes.
[1:15:48] Everything apart, like everything that isn't like do this thing right now is basically just getting people emotionally excited enough to actually do the stuff. Yes.
[1:15:56] And so what they don't need before they start is like, okay, I want you to do a time audit or set your vision board or any of that bullshit that coaches do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[1:16:03] There's like long-term strategic does nothing for you stuff. It wants to be money in my account right now. And the job of onboarding, regardless of the length of the program, is really three things.
[1:16:12] We wanna get them to believe it's possible, which is case studies of other people just like them. Yeah. Uh, and proof, and often people will, by hoping that it works but not really believing that they can do it. Mm-hmm.
[1:16:26] And so in our kickoff call, I was like, um, "Yeah, our job's to get you to a million bucks a year in this timeframe. Some of you guys believe that's possible. A bunch of you guys, like if you're honest, don't.
[1:16:35] That's okay.
[1:16:35] If every of you don't believe it, just know that I've done this over 1000 times, and you just borrow my belief, 'cause I know that I know that I know that if you do this stuff and you stick with me, we're gonna get you there."
[1:16:43] So my first job is get them to believe. Second, get them to belong, and this is the community piece. And so as quick as possible, we want them to connect with you and your team- Mm... and with each other,
[1:16:57] 'cause you're doing this six-week cohort. There's a really nice sense of like we're a squad together, and so as quick as we can, how do we get them to make friends in the program? Breakout groups is what we do.
[1:17:05] Breakout group on Zoom. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Perfect. Uh, in Black Belt, every six weeks we, um, we set new projects, and they get to choose, do I wanna do this solo or do I, do I wanna do it in a squad?
[1:17:17] And so they, they jump into a Zoom breakout with five or six other people and they decide, um, yeah, they share, "Here's where I'm at. Here's my goal. This is the project I'm working on."
[1:17:26] Are you on that or is somebody from your team on that? Or is it just yo- Or do you facilitate the day? I'm on it, and I get it set up, and then we send them into breakouts on Zoom- I see...
[1:17:36] for those who wanna play that game. Mm. So we basically, we, we wrap up the plan. You can do this solo or in a squad. Who wants to do it solo, fantastic. Who wants to do it in a squad, amazing.
[1:17:44] And then we close the session, and if you wanna do it in a squad, stick around for f- 10 minutes of extra time and we'll get you in a squad. And then the squad is, um, e- everyone introduces themselves.
[1:17:55] I'm working on this. This is my goal. This is my reward. There's a, a consequence- Mm... and a reward. Um, and then they decide what channel are we gonna stay in touch with, how often, and then it's s- self-driven.
[1:18:07] Some of those squads like stay together for years and years and years. Um, but I think the belong piece is really important, 'cause then I've made friends and I'm doing the journey, just like you guys met on TikTok.
[1:18:17] Yeah. See, that's so underrated. The, the first group that I ever coached in sports land \[laughs\] the rock stars, there's four or five of them, they made a company, and they're still going. Right.
[1:18:27] Like, they're, still have a company. I s- I saw them when I was in New York, uh, shout out to Lucas and all the boys.
[1:18:32] But I, I went out and I was like, "This is crazy, like you guys were the first ever group that I taught how to do this at a high level," and you guys are- And look at you now...
[1:18:38] they're working for like ASICS and all these folks. You should tell that story- Mm... in week one- Yeah... of your thing. Mm. Like, we're gonna do this as a squad. Uh- I like that...
[1:18:45] and then the third piece is like we want them to believe, we want them to belong, and then we need to get them a quick win.
[1:18:50] And nothing gets you to believe quicker than having done a thing, had a scaryYeah, like been a bit scared, but done the thing anyway and had some kind of result. Mm.
[1:18:58] It's like, okay, that- now that's like these guys have got the source. Yes. I'm in. Mm. Um, and so that's what onboarding's all about. Um,
[1:19:07] and so for us, in the lull, as you said, between I've signed up and I start, they get some quick-win stuff right now.
[1:19:14] And then in the kickoff call, the very first thing we do together has connection, has a bunch of belief stuff, and has, like, a little bit scary.
[1:19:23] You know, look, we're gonna make a post, and we're gonna post it right now, and they all shit themselves. And I set three minutes on the clock and say, "I'm gonna be proud of you when you do this.
[1:19:31] Comment blammo with three Ms when you're done." And they do, and then they get leads live, and they're like, "Holy crap, this thing's amazing." \[laughs\] It's cool. Wow. Yeah.
[1:19:40] It's f- it's fascinating, and I think you're so right. Uh, I think with anything that you sell, like, getting someone a quick win as soon as possible- Right... it immediately breaks the skepticism that's in their head.
[1:19:51] Yeah. Otherwise- You're sitting just waiting. You're like- You're sitting... Yeah, like, I'm taking... Okay, here's where it came from. I've got this friend Josh- Mm...
[1:19:58] who's the best trainer I've ever met, and a coffee company brought him in to teach their barista class one day. So they ran the same class twice, once in the morning, once in the afternoon.
[1:20:07] The first one, he comes in the morning, and he just watches how they do it, and it starts with the history and geography of coffee. Yawn. Yeah. Right? Boring. Right. And it e- ends with pour a latte.
[1:20:19] And so he's like, "Okay, I've kinda got the curriculum. Can I run the afternoon session?" It's like, yep, so a bunch of, like, 20-somethings come in, you know, wanna be hipster barista people.
[1:20:29] And he's like, "Okay, gather around. I'm gonna pour you the perfect latte and do latte art. Watch carefully, 'cause you're gonna be doing this in three minutes." And he does a thing and makes the,
[1:20:38] the flower- Little heart thing... the petal or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the heart thing.
[1:20:41] And then he teaches them how to do it, and now they're, like, really pumped to learn the history and geography of coffee, 'cause it's different for each one, but it starts with, uh, like, a magic trick. A fun thing.
[1:20:50] Yeah. Mm. So I'm always like, what's the magic trick that is, like... takes very little to teach, very little to do, and gets them an outsize return that gets us hooked? That's the fun. Yeah. Magic tricks are good. Yes.
[1:21:01] Yeah. Kind of reminds me of, um, \[tsks\] not Iron Chef, maybe it's Iron Chef, the cooking shows with, like, Gordon Ramsay and the famous chefs, and he's like, "Watch carefully, 'cause this is how you filet a f- Yes...
[1:21:13] a chicken or a fish." And he does it all perfect. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Yeah. He wears the blindfold. Yeah. He's like, oh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When he learned- Flexed...
[1:21:19] to taught you how to scramble eggs, I still, like, remember that video. Oh, dude. Yeah. So good. 90 seconds on, 90 seconds off. Yes, dude. \[laughs\] Yes. Yeah, and he's like, going fast. Don't let it stop.
[1:21:27] "Don't let it stop. Don't let it stop." \[laughs\] Yeah, that's great. Dude, I remember... Speaking of Gordon Ramsay, this is hilarious. When I... So I used to be a tour videographer. Nice.
[1:21:35] And I was on tour with, um, a DJ named Loud Luxury. They, they have a Vegas residen- residency. They're good friends with Gordon Ramsay 'cause he has the- Yep... thing.
[1:21:43] Okay, anyways, so we w- they were doing a show, and, like, one of their friends came to the show, and Gordon Ramsay was there backstage, and he goes, "Dude." He goes, "I crushed it. I met Gordon Ramsay."
[1:21:53] He goes, "Most people kind of fangirl. All, I went up to him, I said, 'Hey, Gordon, 90 seconds on, 90 seconds off.'" And he dapped him up. Yeah. \[laughs\] Yeah.
[1:22:01] 'Cause every coach loves a student who actually listened and did the thing. Uh-huh. Yeah, that's killer. It is. Oh, another thing, cooking controversy. Okay. Contrarian.
[1:22:09] Everybody says cook the steak four minutes, flip, four minutes. Uh, Jamie Oliver goes- Yeah... now you gotta flip every minute. Yep, that's how we do it, man. Is that, is that right? Medium rare, perfect every time.
[1:22:19] Uh-huh. Before we keep going with this- Yeah... I gotta fucking tell you guys this. So we go, I was just in Indiana. We have a layover in Minnesota, plane delayed four hours. Right.
[1:22:25] So I'm like, let's go get a nice dinner. Mm. So we pull up. I'm like, what's the nicest steakhouse in Minnesota? We go to this place, and so I'm looking at the menu. They're not giving the fucking menu.
[1:22:33] They're like, "You want a drink?" I'm like, "I don't, I don't want a drink right now. I just want- Oh... I just want the menu." Yeah. So I'm like, fuck these guys. I'm just gonna go on my Google.
[1:22:39] So I look up their website. It's, like, Stone Age website. Mm-hmm. And it has the menu. Yeah. And it says the tomahawk is $90, and I go, "Dude, lock me into the tomahawk, right? I'm gonna go for the tomahawk." Yeah.
[1:22:48] I go, "Medium rare." Guy hands me this fucking steak. It's huge. It's, like, literally this big. Yeah. And my boy orders a ribeye, and he kinda, like, chuckled as he goes, "A ribeye and a tomahawk?"
[1:22:54] I go, "Yeah, that's what I just said. Get the ribeye and the tomahawk." These steaks are the biggest steaks ever. We could've got one, and we still wouldn't have finished it. Yep.
[1:23:02] The bill comes, and I'm joking with my, my business partner. I go, "How much do you think it's gonna be, 250?" And he goes, "Yeah." And I go, "What if it was 500 bucks?" That fucking tomahawk was $210. There you go.
[1:23:12] And they didn't update the menu from the '90s. Oh. Yeah. And I was like, dude, \[laughs\] like- Yeah... it was a $500 meal for the most am- oh, and then I cut into it. It's not medium rare. It is- Rare...
[1:23:24] totally, it's pulsing. Still mooing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's mooing. I was like- It's blue... yo, I go, "Do you think this is medium rare?" And the guy's like, "I can toss it back on." He goes, "That's rare."
[1:23:30] And I was like, "We gotta go to the airport. I'm just gonna pay this bill. I'm just gonna eat it and get out of here." Yeah. But yeah, that was just- Yeah, yeah, the edges of the whole thing. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah.
[1:23:37] I couldn't believe it, 500 bucks. I will say, whenever I go to a, a steakhouse and you order, like, a big steak like that- Yeah... I always order it medium. Okay. Yeah. Because typically they're gonna- Gosh...
[1:23:47] yeah, do that. Yeah. I gotta grow up, dude. I knew I needed you there. Yeah. That's what I messed up on. Next time, dude. Making money online is really fucking cool. Yeah.
[1:23:54] But, um, there's a lot of, like, roadblocks to get over, and when you first start getting into it,
[1:24:01] y- you get into it 'cause you, you hear all these stories of people making a lot of money, but then you realize it's a lot of work, and it, it is really hard. It is work, of course.
[1:24:08] Um, but you've, over the years, transitioned or transformed your business into something where you're building this lifestyle empire- Yeah...
[1:24:17] where you're making a lot of money, but it's, like, really fun- And it's fun... and easy for you. Agreed. And travel. Yeah. Traveling the world. Of course.
[1:24:23] Do you find that a lot of coaches, um, without knowing it, they almost, they build a job for themselves that- Yeah, they don't just build a job. They build, like, the worst job. Yeah. I did that. I don't recommend it.
[1:24:35] So the problem is everyone's telling you that you should do this and you should do that, and no matter what, it should be more. Like, however, however much, however big it is right now- Yes...
[1:24:46] it'll get great at the next level. Hm. And part of that's, you know, the fault of dudes like me. You know, like, we put ladders in front of people, and people wanna climb ladders, 'cause that's how, human nature.
[1:24:56] Um-But the truth is you can build... Like, you know earlier you said, like, uh, they're six-figure people and they wanna get to a mil. The truth is that most of them don't want a mil, they just want more.
[1:25:06] And most people don't really want a business, they want, uh, they want a job where they can do creative work that- Mm... pays for life, and if it doesn't take over their whole life, they're happy.
[1:25:17] Um, and so about six months ago, a friend sent me this inspirational Pinterest quote, and it spoke to my soul, which is embarrassing to admit, but it's true.
[1:25:27] And it's become a bit of a man- a, a mantra, which is, "I'm much more interested in how my business feels to me than how it looks to anyone else." Mm. Because otherwise we just build the thing 'cause we're supposed to.
[1:25:38] Uh, and the truth is that, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts in a business like this if you want there to be, but there also doesn't have to be. Like, when you're getting started, we just need, like,
[1:25:50] a result that a group of people want, and as few steps as possible to get them there. And then we can post stuff on social and have them message us back and jump on the phone and sell them stuff.
[1:25:59] And that, like, that's, that works to, like, 20 or 30 or 40 grand a month. And then anything above that is, is choice, I think, really. Um, so right now I'm in a really happy place where I was like, "How...
[1:26:12] What does my ideal week really look like?" Both in terms of, like, number of days and hours per day, but also the, the t- the jobs. Like, I'm, I love making content, I love collaborating with people and coaching.
[1:26:24] Anything that's not that, I don't like at all. Um, and so I've, I'm in a lucky position now where I've j- made the decision to, like, only do stuff that I enjoy.
[1:26:33] And the truth is that I could've done that years and years and years and years earlier, and I just didn't realize it. I built bigger because it was meant to be bigger, and I never thought about enough.
[1:26:43] Um, but if you go, like, what do I actually want? Like, if it wants to be a $10 million behemoth, cool. If it wants to be more than that, cool.
[1:26:50] But the problem with looking at all the business gurus is that they're on, they're chasing. And I'm like, what if we just, like, decided what we really wanted and did that?
[1:26:57] And you realize that there's only a handful of moving parts. Like, we need a way to get attention and eyeballs, we need a way to sell, and we need a simple way to deliver. And at its basic, it's that.
[1:27:07] And anything, everything else is just, like, variations of that. And you don't need seven ways to get leads. You need one. Mm. You don't need, like, seven different ways to convert.
[1:27:14] You need one, whether it's calls or it's a challenge or it's a VSL or it's salesless or whatever. Mm.
[1:27:22] And the, the problem is that because no one ever sat down with us and decided, a- and helped us figure out what we really want, we end up making it very complex.
[1:27:31] As you are making more, you cross a seven-figure mark, you get into these much higher significant figures. Yeah.
[1:27:38] Did you find that not much changed, and did you think stuff was going to change, just maybe- Like, life-wise? Yeah. Per- Happiness-wise? Yeah, happiness- No... life- Nothing changed. Nothing changed? No.
[1:27:48] Now, was it something that you knew, though? Like, 'cause I think- I think I knew it intellectually. Okay. 'Cause I think about, like, the richest I ever felt was the first paycheck from when I was working at the Lakers.
[1:27:56] Yeah. It was, like, a couple thousand bucks, and I was like- Yeah... I had no money. I've made it. I maybe had 40 bucks in my bank account. Yeah. I remember that first check hit. Yeah. I'm like- Yeah, it's all relative.
[1:28:03] Yeah, it's relative. Yeah. But now, but now if you said, like, that was my weekly paycheck, I would be f- I'd freak out. I'd be like, "I can't pay for anything." You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
[1:28:13] First webinar I ever ran, I made, like, 30 grand in an hour, and the year before I made $27,500 in a year. So I did it in an hour, and I just... Like, my brain broke and I started crying, 'cause like, what the actual...
[1:28:27] Um, I think the, the thing that's changed, like, I'm exactly the same person I've always been. What's changed is, um, options and help with stuff that I'm not good at. Mm. So the...
[1:28:40] Like, most people outsource stuff at work really quickly, but very few people are like, "Well, I'm gonna get a cleaner and a cook or a nanny or a whatever." Mm.
[1:28:50] Like, that stuff's really cheap to outsource, and it makes the biggest difference to your life instantly. I'll tell you what. Tell me what. Laundry, dude. Laundry. Yes. Okay? Uh-huh. You outsource laundry?
[1:28:59] Yes, all the things. Oh my God. So my fiance was at Coachella. Yeah. And she had, I'm, I'm kidding, probably 10 to 12 loads to do. That's insane. I said,
[1:29:11] "I hate laundry, you know, I don't mind putting it in, but it's the taking it out after- Yeah... it's, you know, finding the socks to match- The fold, folding... folding sucks." Yeah. Oh, God.
[1:29:18] I go, "I really wanna try to do a good gesture and do her laundry." Yeah. I did two loads. I go, "Feels like I haven't made a dent- Mm-hmm... in this ham- in this- It's just grow- Yeah... it's growing. In the hamper.
[1:29:29] It's walking around. So then I go, "Okay, I used to get my laundry done in college." I go, "Let's see if there's something around here." \[laughs\] And I paid for it, and I go, "I don't think I can ever go back to-" No.
[1:29:41] And it's, it's, it wasn't, it was- I got, I got here to LA, like, three days ago, two days ago. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. First stop, Rose Cleaners in Venice, 'cause I knew them and I was in Venice. Mm-hmm. Boom. Yes, 100%.
[1:29:51] It's sorted. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's the best. Um, so I think happiness is, like, maybe it's, like, getting to do more of the stuff you love, but I think the first hack is, like, less of the stuff you hate. Mm. Yes. Mm.
[1:30:03] Like, what do you hate? Like, admin and meetings. Guess what? There's no, there's, there's... Every two months now, I meet the whole team on Zoom, once every two months, just so that...
[1:30:11] Like, weekend at Bernie's, they can, like, wheel me out and I can wave, and there's like, "Oh, he's still alive. That's good." \[laughs\] He's still doing the thing. He's still doing the thing.
[1:30:18] \[laughs\] Yeah, like, the, the, the first moment I felt successful was that webinar, and it was mo- more of a brain break than a celebration. Mm.
[1:30:25] And then I came home one day and the gardeners were gardening, the cleaners were cleaning, and the nanny had just arrived with the kids. I was like, "Oh, I've got posse now? I've made it."
[1:30:35] And I haven't felt any more successful since then. My week looks better than it did. But mostly it's about, like, optimizing for the stuff that you, you're great at.
[1:30:44] Has there been moments where outside it may have looked like everything was sunshine and- Yeah... and rainbows, and internally- Two years ago, I wanted to burn the whole thing down. I was just like, "Wow."
[1:30:54] Well, what, what was at the core root of that? Like, what did you have to implement to fix?Uh, so we got to that point 'cause COVID was awful to live through, but great for business. Yeah.
[1:31:05] Everyone needed to figure out online, and we were ahead, ahead of it, and so the business grew. I wasn't involved in the admin stuff, and my ops manager at the time, his solution was, um, let's just throw a person at it.
[1:31:16] So we hired a lot. Ended up with 36 people on the team, which is either a lot or a little depending on your frame of reference. For me, it was a lot 'cause management is scary. And I...
[1:31:26] Business felt really, really heavy. Like, I'd outsourced- I wasn't- hardly involved in the marketing like we talked about before. I had a team of coaches who was doing a, a pretty good job.
[1:31:34] So I wasn't involved in making the content much or the marketing much, and a lot of the delivery not much. I wasn't in sales. And so the only thing left was, like, meetings. Gross. Gross. The worst. Yeah, man. Yeah.
[1:31:47] And then- Meetings aren't fun. Yeah. And it, like... So I was just looking at my week, and my week w- was miserable.
[1:31:52] And I was like, I almost killed the clients program and got rid of Black Belt and just kept Boardroom, the, the top dudes. Mm. I figured I could do that with one assistant.
[1:32:02] Then I looked at the people in Boardroom who I loved and realized that most of them came up through Black Belt, and I never would have met... They never would've got here if I hadn't have met them where they were at.
[1:32:10] It's like, oh, I don't want to rob all the future legends from savior complex. Um, it turns out it wasn't the programs that was the problem, it was just my weeks were full of shit that I didn't like.
[1:32:21] So I leaned back into marketing. We went from 36 on the team to eight. Um, ads been dropped. We don't need a sales team anymore 'cause the marketing's actually doing its job.
[1:32:32] Of the coaches we had, there were three who were like gangsters, and so now we've got the three gangsters and not the others.
[1:32:38] And now my week just looks em- Like, the only stuff in my week is making content, hanging out with cool people, and helping them with their stuff. It's really fun. Um, but it's, it's really easy to get yourself into...
[1:32:51] like, to build a business you, you've grown to hate. Yeah. And so the... Your question was, "So what'd you do?" Yeah. Uh, admitted that I didn't like it. Mm.
[1:33:02] The m- yeah, nothing's more powerful than someone who's admitted what they want, and the easiest way to do that is to make a list of everything you hate. Mm. And, like, want the opposite of that.
[1:33:11] That's, that changed my life. But it's hard, I think, in the moment when you're feeling burnt out and you're not enjoying it. It's almost hard to- Yeah, to... Yeah... believe- That it's possible...
[1:33:24] that there's another way to do it because you've been doing it for the same way and you think it's the right way to do it. Yeah, correct.
[1:33:30] And so I, I was, like, super miserable about it, and then my wife and Tony on my team, we got together and we sat down for a couple of days, and I was like, "Well, this is what I hate.
[1:33:40] I don't even have a clear picture of what it could look like. I don't even believe that's possible." Yeah. And so they're much more kind of logical and strategic than me.
[1:33:49] And we sketched out what it could look like afterwards, and then a, like, a three-month plan to get it there. And, like, 90 days later, my life was infinitely better, and it was like it was...
[1:34:00] I was probably three hard conversations away from awesome the whole time and didn't know. \[laughs\] I didn't even have the hard conversation. I was too scared.
[1:34:09] So I did the safe version in front of everybody, and then Tony, God bless her soul, had, like, very hard one-on-one conversations with everybody.
[1:34:15] But she's, like, ex Fortune 500 HR, has, like, hired and fired more people than I ever will. And so she just did it, and they, they were respected and loved, and we took care of everybody, and now I'm on the other side.
[1:34:26] It's like business is amazing. Mm. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Mm. How did you get into coaching coaches? Like, what, what was it- Yeah... what was, what were you selling before?
[1:34:39] And then you learned the game, and then you're like, "I can teach people how to do this." Yeah. So I was, I was doing all sorts of random jobs, fascinated with marketing, and thought...
[1:34:49] This is, like, early, early coaching, so there was, like, a couple of people doing it, and I was fascinated. Like, there was something about... I didn't know what it was, but I o- I knew that this was gonna be my thing.
[1:34:58] Uh, and I got a job as the marketing guy for a business coach. Mm. And, um, epic company, they didn't know shit about marketing. \[laughs\] And so I just followed their playbook, and it sucked.
[1:35:10] I had to fill a two-day workshop. Uh, sorry, a, uh, a two-hour evening workshop on a Tuesday afternoon, and I had two weeks to fill it. And they gave me the script, and the script was in a three-ring binder.
[1:35:19] It was like 74 pages of script for one call. And my words were in black, and then, um, the prospect's replies were in blue. And then it was like, "If they say this, go to page five." Like a choose your own adventure. No.
[1:35:30] It was insane. It was great, except I had the script and the prospect never had the script, so they were supposed to say, "Yes, Tucky, that sounds great. Sign me up." Mm. And they never said that.
[1:35:37] \[laughs\] So, like, I worked really hard to fill this dude's workshop. It was meant to be 16 people. I got 16 to say yes, they were coming, and two showed up, and one of them was my best mate who came for moral support.
[1:35:49] No. It was super embarrassing. I was like, "Well, clearly ringing these fuckers doesn't work." Yeah. Yeah. They'd say yes just to get me off the phone. It's like I've got to figure out a way to get them to call me.
[1:36:00] So that's where I got, like, obsessed with this thing. Was it the paper back then? Paper? The newspaper. Uh, no, but my leads list was the Yellow Pages. Unreal. Shut up. It was awful. Oh my gosh.
[1:36:14] \[laughs\] Yeah, it was so bad, dude. Do, do you laugh now looking at how you're like, "I can just make videos and reach people." It's so easy now. And re- and reach the people. Oh my God. Yeah. It's so good.
[1:36:22] And the YouTube algorithm will do your job for you. \[laughs\] It's ridiculous, man. Um, this is the luckiest... Like, I cannot believe how easy it is. I'm not saying it's- Yeah... it's the sim- it's so simple. Mm-hmm.
[1:36:35] It's not easy. Sure. You've gotta do work. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's accessible to everybody now if you want to. It's like just, you're just a few moves away from, like, actually having a thing. It's ridiculous. Mm.
[1:36:45] Um, I can't even remember the original question. I don't know if that answers it. I was just wondering what you were doing bef- like- So I was marketing manager-... how you got into-... for a coaching company- Uh-huh...
[1:36:53] for a while. Yeah. It was, like, one guy, and we grew him to full, and then we brought on a, another coach and another coach and another coach, and then two teams merged, and I was the dude.
[1:37:00] My job was generate the leads-Walk them through the sales process up until the point where the coach would... It was all in Sydney. It was all, like, one-on-one, face-to-face sales.
[1:37:08] So I would, I would get the leads and walk them through the pre-sales process to the point where the coach would, like, pick up the sheet with the person's- Mm...
[1:37:14] name and details on it, and then go out to see them and sign them up. Um, and before that, I was, like, doing pool parties for kids, and afterschool care, and holiday programs, and fun stuff like that. Nice.
[1:37:26] Which is way fun. Mm-hmm. This is what, that's what I do right now, to be super honest. Wow. I draw pictures and I...
[1:37:31] Yeah, adults are just kids with better excuses, and if you can make 400, you know, 10-year-olds have a good time, you can crush it with adults. \[laughs\] I had a question regarding testimonials. Yeah. Your... If,
[1:37:46] if someone knows you- Yep... they understand, like, who you've worked with. Yep. But you're not shouting it from- No... the rooftops, and, you know, you weave in certain, you know, students or client- Yep...
[1:38:00] stories throughout your content. But you're selling through a Google Doc, you don't have these insane testimonials on, like, a- No... landing page. And so- No, I don't. I just, I think most people don't believe them.
[1:38:11] Okay. So I like contentmonials. Mm. Which is, like, so case studies rather than- Yeah... you know, a quote of, like, "I worked with Taki and it helped me," blah, blah, blah.
[1:38:21] If I, if I just put, like, the 10 or 15 or 30, like, most famous people that I've worked with- Yeah... that would probably go a long way. Um, right now I've got the opposite problem, like, where we're full full.
[1:38:32] Um, like, Boardroom's capped at 100 people. It's at 100. I'm turn- there's 120 people on a wait list. I'm turning them away. Black Belt, we take in 45 new clients a month. We've got demand for 60, but we take 45,
[1:38:43] because it's enough. So I don't have a lead generation sales problem. I love case studies, um, because I think it's super... Like, it's actually useful. Uh, and I'm...
[1:38:57] Even the company name, like Million Dollar Coach, my... I love it and I hate it. Like, it's the promise of the program. I'll get you to a million bucks. That's what we do.
[1:39:03] I mean, every week somebody hits a million bucks, which is awesome. But I hate it because it sounds like it's talking about me. And I'm like- I see. Yeah. It's like, and I... The marketing's...
[1:39:12] Imagine, so if this light is focused on me, I'm doing it wrong. It should be focused on my prospects. Mm. And so that's why my goal is, how do I make it fun for me and useful for them? And I don't leverage clients'
[1:39:26] names probably enough. I just try to out teach. Yeah. And that's what I get from your videos.
[1:39:35] It's like, it's so tactical that when- whenever I watch them, I'm like, "There's something here that I can- I can do something with this... I can do something with it. I can implement." And the drawing too.
[1:39:43] And the drawing. Fuck, oh, you're a good drawer, dude. Oh, that's... I can't think without a pen, so half the time I've been here going, "Uh, uh, uh."
[1:39:49] But it's so, it's so funny because your drawings are so simple, but I'm like, "Fuck, I don't even think I could come up with that drawing." Mm-hmm. It's a learned skill. Uh-huh.
[1:40:00] So where it came from, uh, was I'm gonna do my first ever workshop. If I'm gonna do a workshop, I need a workbook. If I need a workbook, I'm gonna have worksheets. Shit, I gotta figure out how to do worksheets.
[1:40:09] And in order to do worksheets, you need, like, very simple step-by-step processes. Yeah. And there's only, like, X number of page layouts. Oh, okay. You know, there's, like, one big blank page.
[1:40:17] \[laughs\] There's, there's two columns. There's three columns. There's two columns and three rows or whatever. Like... Mm-hmm. And the, the drawings I learnt from a guy in Australia called Matt Church.
[1:40:27] Um, he's got a great book called Think, that if anyone wants to, like, learn visual models and stuff, that's a great- Just check the cover. \[laughs\] Yeah. No, actually.
[1:40:34] The cover's actually not that useful, but it's, uh- \[laughs\] This is one of those rare books where the- Okay. \[laughs\]... the stuff is actually useful and the cover's okay. Okay. \[laughs\] Um, but that's a learnt skill.
[1:40:41] And it just clicked the way I think is, like, I'm a good simplifier. And then there's really only three shapes. There's circles, and there's triangles, and there's squares.
[1:40:50] And so if you pick a topic like, I don't know, community. If I said community, does it feel more like a square or a circle or a triangle? I'd go, "Well, it feels like a circle."
[1:40:58] And then there's only three different kinds of circles. You know, we can, I can draw them another time. But, um, yeah, it's a, it's a skill. Yeah. It's like, you know, you've got all this amazing gear here. Mm.
[1:41:08] You guys know how to use it. I've got the gear and I don't know how to use any of it. Yeah. It's just reps. Nice. What would you tell to leave us, uh, with a coach that's doing around this 5 to 10K mark?
[1:41:18] If you had to speak directly to that person- Yep... and they're deep in the thick of it, they don't know what is possible, what is something that you could leave that person with today?
[1:41:30] Uh, I think you grow your business, like, we all start for our, for ourselves.
[1:41:35] Uh, and you, if you're stuck at, like, 5 or 10 or tw- or 20 grand a month, whatever your number is, you're there b- partly 'cause you don't know how and partly 'cause you're comfortable where you are, even if it's not great yet.
[1:41:45] We all get our musts, and, like, growing is a, is a should or a could right now.
[1:41:50] And so if you're comfortable but you in your gut wanna do more, I think let's figure out someone that you care about more than you to grow for. Mm.
[1:41:59] My best year in business was when I set a goal not for the amount of clients we'd get or the revenue we'd create. It was like, how do I get 50 coaches to a million bucks a year, in a year?
[1:42:08] And, like, the moment it was for somebody else, I gave a shit enough to, like, lean all the way in. So it's really a, like Simon Sinek says, "Start with why." Mm. I think the why for most of us is in the who.
[1:42:19] And I, I don't know if that's the answer that you're looking for, but I... Like, for me, everything's figureoutable when you have to, and you either have to 'cause of desperation or inspiration.
[1:42:28] And if you're at that, like, business is comfortable-ish enough right now, then let's find a reason that it, you have to do it. I love that. I relate to that so much. Two things. One,
[1:42:40] we had a kid, not even a kid, a guy, Chris- Yeah... in our first ever time running our program. He had just had a kid. Dude, a baby is, like, the biggest motivation of all time.
[1:42:52] And, um, he crushed it, and he was like, "I had a c- I had no other option." Yeah. Um, I was just in North Carolina this past weekend. Yeah. Just got back, like, two days ago. Yeah.
[1:43:02] And we were visiting our wedding venue. And-There's something about, okay, I have... I'm about to get married in a year- Yep... which inevitably means babies- Yep... at some point. That, dude, 1,000%. And
[1:43:19] if I wasn't engaged and I didn't have a girlfriend, I'd be like, "I'm cool. Like, of course, I always want more." I want more. Yep. But, like, I don't necessarily need it. It's not a have to yet.
[1:43:27] And now I'm thinking about- Before this baby comes, I want this to be set... or I don't want to move out of Southern California. Mm-hmm.
[1:43:35] And, like, my fiance is like, "Oh, well, maybe we could move to South Carolina and have a house there." And I'm like, these are beautiful homes, but I'm thinking,
[1:43:44] man, like, having a baby, and h- what do I need to make to be able to- Yeah... live a great life with them- Yeah... and not have to leave Southern California? Dude, 1,000%.
[1:43:53] It's such a kick in the ass of, like, yo, Fig, we gotta- So-... we gotta put this thing into overdrive... get pregnant. Boom. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the, that's the game. Have a baby.
[1:44:00] So I- That's the main takeaway... years ago, I was, um, working a job, making 60 grand a year. Some goes to tax. My son's in a, um, performing arts school. It's 20 grand a year, and I'm trying to feed a family of four on
[1:44:13] almost no money. I'm super broke. My mate Sam says, "You know, I haven't seen you for ages. Let's catch up. How you doing?" And I'm like, "Broke is how I'm doing. I've gotta go to the supermarket afterwards."
[1:44:23] And he lends me 200 bucks. So I get the 200 bucks. I'm super grateful. I just realized I never paid Sam back the 200 bucks. \[laughs\] I should probably pay Sam the 200 bucks.
[1:44:31] I get home, and my wife's there, and she, and she's got this, like, glowy, like, something to tell you look. She goes, "Uh, I've got some news." I'm like, "Oh, I, I love news." She goes, "You might wanna sit down."
[1:44:40] \[laughs\] Got it. Yeah, you know where it's going. Yeah. And my brain's like, "Oh, I hate sit-down news, 'cause it's never good news." And she...
[1:44:46] I'm sitting on the edge of the bed, and she's standing up, and I hold her hand, and I look up at her, and she goes, "Babe, I'm, I'm pregnant." I'm like, "Oh, that's amazing."
[1:44:52] We have this beautiful moment, and then she leaves, and I'm like, "Fuck." 'Cause I've got, like, eight months to... Or we are s- so screwed. And, uh, the first two weeks I was, like, desperate. Like, just,
[1:45:06] like, in a tailspin. Like, we're gonna die, we're gonna die, we're gonna die. And then I was like, okay, this isn't helping. I gotta figure this out.
[1:45:11] And I figured out if we can get to eight grand a month or 10 grand a month, by the time this baby's born, we'll be okay. Not great, but, like, we'll survive. And guess what I fucking did? I did the thing, 'cause I had a,
[1:45:22] a deadline, baby. So for, you know, anyone watching this, they don't need a deadline baby. They just need a deadline, baby. \[laughs\] You know what I mean? Yeah.
[1:45:31] \[laughs\] Just like a date at, by which this thing will happen. Mm-hmm. And a consequence if you do and a reward if you don't. Sorry, other way around. You know, a consequence if you don't and a reward if you do.
[1:45:43] And the, for us, the reward is, like, we won't die, which is pretty fucking compelling. \[laughs\] Um, but that's why every six weeks with our clients, we go, "What's the goal?"
[1:45:51] And a, a consequence, like a reward when you do. Yeah. I'm gonna buy this new bike, or I'm gonna upgrade my gear, or I'm gonna whatever. Mm-hmm. And a consequence if I don't.
[1:45:58] And that's usually something, we call it the terrible, horrible, very bad, no good thing. I like that. Yeah, which is like, if I don't do this, I'm gonna donate this money to the cause that I don't like. I like this too.
[1:46:08] Or I'm gonna sell my car. I've got some people who've, like, given their, sold their car and given the money to their ex. \[laughs\] Or, like, just whatever makes it... Just, like, something awful. Mm-hmm.
[1:46:17] And then a public declaration where they go online, and they say, "I'm gonna do this thing." Wow. If you're a parent, it's like, if we do this, we're taking the kids to Disneyland. Oh.
[1:46:24] And then you have to look at little Johnny and like- Oh... "Sorry, your dad was a putz, and we're not going to Disneyland." Oh. \[laughs\] That's pretty fucking motivating. Yeah. It's so funny. Me and, uh...
[1:46:33] We need the bad thing. We talk about \[laughs\] Me and Brandon go, "Oh, if this thing does what it, we think it can do, we're going shopping and going to Nobu." Yeah, we need the bad- Just the two of us.
[1:46:42] Yeah, we need the bad thing. Leaving the girls at home. We need the bad thing, dude. That's so funny. \[laughs\] So I've got this... I learnt this from a client called Mike, who's this, um,
[1:46:50] super tough dude from New Jersey. Italian. Could kill you in, like, 30 different ways with a... Like, he's martial arts boss. And I'm sitting down at one of our workshops, and, uh,
[1:47:01] he was sitting next to this guy who was, like, brand new and had maybe, maybe had, like, two clients. And I witnessed, like, the most incredible five minutes of coaching I've ever seen in my life.
[1:47:10] He's like, "So, um, what's your niche?" He's like, "I don't, I don't really know." Hmm. He goes, "Well, what'd you used to do before this?" "I was in real estate." "Were you any good at it?" "Yep."
[1:47:16] "Okay, that's your niche. Great. Uh, what's your price point?" "I don't really know." "Well, how about this much?" And the guy was like, "Okay, I could charge that much." "Great.
[1:47:24] What are the three things I need to do to get to, like, to win?" This, that, and that. "Okay, well, that's your program. Done. Um, I'm gonna see you back here in four months' time. What's the income goal?"
[1:47:33] "If I can get to 10 grand a month, that'd be great." "Okay, cool. So that's the goal. If you hit it, what's the reward?" He goes, "Well, I'll have the extra money." He goes, "No, no, no, no.
[1:47:40] You already don't have the money, and you're, it's not a must for you, so, like, what's an actual reward? Something that puts a big, fat, shit-eating grin on your face." He's like, "Well, I'll..." Whatever it was.
[1:47:47] "I'll buy this" whatever. "Okay. Now we need a, a, a consequence if you don't." He goes, "Well, I won't have the money."
[1:47:55] And it's like, "Well, you already don't have the money, so that's not very motivating, 'cause you're comfortable right now." He goes, "Well, I don't know." He goes, "Well, do you, um, do you own a gun?" He goes, "Yep."
[1:48:03] "Do you like your gun?" "Yep." "Okay. Well, if you don't, I'll take your gun. Do you have a truck?" "Yep." "I'll take your truck, too." \[laughs\] And the guy's, "I don't know about it." He goes, "Okay.
[1:48:11] Well, what can I break, shave, or tattoo?" Mm-hmm. And the guy was like, "Ah!" Mm-hmm. Um, but, like, that public stake of, like, I lose this thing that I love- Yeah... or have to do this thing that I hate,
[1:48:21] I'm not saying, like, it's clean motivation, but it's pretty fucking motivating. I like that. This time last year, I'd set a goal to get to 15% body fat by April fif- April 1st.
[1:48:31] And if I did, there was a reward that was very exciting, but, like Nobu. Um, it was a nice-to-have.
[1:48:37] But the consequence was if I didn't, I'd have to do my next client Zoom call with my shirt off and my man boobs jiggling. \[laughs\] And I can't tell you how motivating. That was, like, very fucking motivating.
[1:48:48] And so sure enough, April, uh, May 31st, the day before, I did my DEXA scan at f- at, um, 14.9, and thank God for that. Let's go. Dude, you widen the gap to the constraints you put on yourself. I love that. Yep.
[1:49:01] Standards. Boom. Gosh, this has been- Yeah... an amazing episode, one of my favorites we've ever done.
[1:49:05] Ladies and gentlemen, if you're still here, please hit the Subscribe button, drop us a comment, leave us a like, and we'll see you guys all next week. Peace. Ciao.

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