# CAK: Your Money, Your Right

An episode of [The Mwango Capital Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1583367792), 31 Mar 2025, 40 min.

Audio: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/160202302/5201e5dc5495889bc9ea26edea9dfed8.mp3

In this episode recorded on 21.03.2025 and hosted by Ramah Nyang, we are joined by Boniface Kamiti, Manager - Consumer Protection at the Competition Authority of Kenya, to discuss consumer protection in Kenya. Subscribe to get notified when we make a new post. Show Notes 00:00:00 Introduction and Overview of CAK’s Role 00:07:11 Key Consumer Rights 00:09:21 Common Issues and Recourse 00:13:08 Digital Lending and Non-Disclosure 00:25:45 Procedures and Advice to Consumers 00:37:07 Final Thoughts and Contact Information Get full access to The Mwango Weekly at mwangocapital.substack.com/subscribe

## Transcript

[0:00] Good morning,
[0:00] good afternoon,
[0:01] good evening,
[0:01] wherever you're joining us from.
[0:03] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this edition of the Muanbo Spaces.
[0:05] SPEAKER_01: I'm going to start with a conversation here with Peter Muthiki from CAK.
[0:11] I know CAK is one of those parts of government that for some
[0:14] individuals it might
[0:15] SPEAKER_01: not necessarily be that well known.
[0:17] SPEAKER_01: It's among the younger regulators that we have.
[0:19] SPEAKER_01: Peter, give us an introduction to CAK.
[0:21] SPEAKER_01: What do you guys do and why should Kenyan taxpayers pay attention?
[0:25] SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Rama.
[0:27] SPEAKER_00: Also,
[0:27] SPEAKER_00: thank you to Mwango Capital for hosting us,
[0:29] SPEAKER_00: the committee and I,
[0:30] SPEAKER_00: for representing the authority.
[0:32] SPEAKER_00: As you mentioned,
[0:33] SPEAKER_00: yes,
[0:33] SPEAKER_00: the truth of the matter is sometimes,
[0:35] SPEAKER_00: unless we've made a big announcement,
[0:37] SPEAKER_00: penalizing a party here or there,
[0:39] SPEAKER_00: or maybe a merger or a requisition,
[0:41] SPEAKER_00: which instructions,
[0:42] SPEAKER_00: some people don't quite know us.
[0:44] SPEAKER_00: Some people may not know about CAK.
[0:46] SPEAKER_00: So we are the Competition Authority of Kenya, not CA.
[0:50] SPEAKER_00: Competition Authority of Kenya is a regulator.
[0:52] SPEAKER_00: We are domiciled under the Treasury, the National Treasury.
[0:55] SPEAKER_00: We are located at CBK Pension Towers in town.
[0:58] SPEAKER_00: That's along Harambe Avenue on 15th floor of that building.
[1:02] SPEAKER_00: We are a multicultural regulator.
[1:04] SPEAKER_00: Our mandate, so to speak, is too prompt.
[1:07] We deal with matters of competition and also we deal with
[1:10] consumer protection.
[1:11] I'll just give a brief highlight of each,
[1:13] then we'll dive right into the conversation.
[1:15] SPEAKER_00: Number one, I've just mentioned mergers and acquisitions.
[1:18] SPEAKER_00: We analyze mergers.
[1:20] SPEAKER_00: That reaches a certain threshold.
[1:22] You have 500 million Kenya shillings in terms of combined
[1:25] assets or turnover,
[1:26] SPEAKER_00: whichever is higher.
[1:26] Then an obligation to seek approval from the authority before
[1:30] you merge with
[1:30] SPEAKER_00: another company or before you buy another company to become one.
[1:34] SPEAKER_00: We have no problem.
[1:35] SPEAKER_00: People merging.
[1:36] SPEAKER_00: People merge for various reasons.
[1:37] SPEAKER_00: So it's a good thing.
[1:38] SPEAKER_00: However,
[1:39] we are cognizant of the fact that left unmitigated mergers or
[1:43] acquisitions can have
[1:44] SPEAKER_00: a negative impact on competition.
[1:46] SPEAKER_00: For instance,
[1:46] SPEAKER_00: if you're just three companies that are in a space,
[1:49] SPEAKER_00: perhaps let's talk about telecom sector.
[1:51] Imagine a scenario where the bigger player just buys off
[1:54] everyone's retailers.
[1:55] SPEAKER_00: Assume we only have one retailer operating perhaps in Nairobi.
[1:59] SPEAKER_00: You as a consumer, you don't have choice.
[2:01] The player themselves would be so big that they could do harm
[2:04] to you as a consumer.
[2:05] They could price their products or services without more or
[2:08] less caring about the
[2:09] SPEAKER_00: impact it will have on the consumer.
[2:11] SPEAKER_00: That's mergers and acquisitions.
[2:12] So think about NIC,
[2:14] CBA,
[2:15] to become NCBA,
[2:16] transactions to do with Coca-Cola.
[2:18] SPEAKER_00: There are quite a number in different spaces in the horticulture sector.
[2:21] SPEAKER_00: There are so many of them.
[2:23] SPEAKER_00: Number two, we have enforcement and compliance.
[2:26] SPEAKER_00: So enforcement and compliance is the core of what we do.
[2:29] And perhaps people think that's only what we do in terms of
[2:32] competition enforcement.
[2:33] But that department deals with ensuring that there's effective
[2:37] competition in the market,
[2:38] SPEAKER_00: that the players in various markets are playing by the rules.
[2:41] Think about things like abyss of dominance,
[2:43] and you have over 50% of a market.
[2:46] And you start behaving in a manner that trying to infringe or
[2:49] trying to kill other competitors.
[2:51] SPEAKER_00: So once we find evidence that you've done that,
[2:54] SPEAKER_00: it's a bridge of dominance,
[2:55] SPEAKER_00: a cartelization where several players we did steel two years ago,
[3:00] SPEAKER_00: penalized 14 players,
[3:01] close to 800 million Kenya shillings for being in a cartel in
[3:05] the steel sector.
[3:05] SPEAKER_00: There was paints around four players.
[3:07] SPEAKER_00: We penalized them around 40 million.
[3:10] SPEAKER_00: These are investigations.
[3:10] SPEAKER_00: These are just samples.
[3:11] That's a catalyzation market allocation where a player says or
[3:16] determines that you
[3:17] SPEAKER_00: as a rammer,
[3:17] SPEAKER_00: perhaps you're supplying,
[3:19] SPEAKER_00: you cannot go beyond this region or another region.
[3:22] SPEAKER_00: So you as a consumer, again, you don't have choice and all that.
[3:25] SPEAKER_00: And competitive conduct,
[3:26] that's what actually falls under this department called
[3:29] enforcement and compliance.
[3:30] The compliance bit of that name in the department is that once
[3:34] we make even a
[3:35] SPEAKER_00: determination on a merger,
[3:37] SPEAKER_00: we sometimes place conditions on the parties.
[3:39] For instance,
[3:39] don't fire employees within this period,
[3:42] maintain contracts with SMEs.
[3:44] So the department thereafter comes to check that the rules or
[3:47] the conditions we
[3:48] SPEAKER_00: applied are being adhered to.
[3:50] SPEAKER_00: Again,
[3:50] SPEAKER_00: if we find cartels,
[3:51] we tell them to enter into a competition compliance program to
[3:54] understand the
[3:54] SPEAKER_00: benefits for our mandate and the benefits of effective competition.
[3:58] So the department goes in after the fact to check that what we
[4:02] did or what we
[4:04] SPEAKER_00: applied is being adhered to.
[4:06] And also if we make a policy,
[4:07] more or less a policy change,
[4:09] then what happens?
[4:11] SPEAKER_00: What happened two, three years down the line?
[4:12] Did it have the intended impact or were there unintended
[4:15] consequences which we
[4:16] SPEAKER_00: perhaps need to revise?
[4:18] SPEAKER_00: Then lastly, the technical department we have is called buyer power.
[4:21] SPEAKER_00: The most famous case involves one of the top retailers in Kenya.
[4:25] We penalize them at some point because buyer power is an
[4:29] instance where there's a
[4:30] SPEAKER_00: buyer here who has power.
[4:31] SPEAKER_00: So I'll explain the buyer.
[4:32] The buyer is someone who controls an infrastructure that is so
[4:35] important that
[4:36] SPEAKER_00: people supplying them with goods or services that they may,
[4:40] SPEAKER_00: for whatever reason,
[4:41] SPEAKER_00: misuse this power.
[4:42] SPEAKER_00: So I think insurance is...
[4:44] SPEAKER_00: Companies, an insurance company has suppliers under them.
[4:47] SPEAKER_00: So they're the buyer, the insurance company, and they have suppliers.
[4:50] SPEAKER_00: Let's assume it's something to do with motor vehicle repair.
[4:53] SPEAKER_00: You have an accident or an incident with your vehicle.
[4:56] SPEAKER_00: They're garage owners.
[4:57] They're motor vehicle assessors who check the costing of the
[5:00] damage to the vehicle.
[5:01] So these are suppliers to the buyer,
[5:04] in this case being the insurance company.
[5:06] The people who supply groceries to the supermarket,
[5:08] the buyer in this case is a supermarket.
[5:11] SPEAKER_00: So this can be replayed obviously across many sectors.
[5:14] SPEAKER_00: So the buyer,
[5:15] SPEAKER_00: in this case,
[5:16] SPEAKER_00: when they're sitting on a bargaining table,
[5:17] SPEAKER_00: they tend to hold a lot of power.
[5:19] SPEAKER_00: So abuse of that power manifests in various ways.
[5:22] SPEAKER_00: They refuse to deal, they don't want to deal with someone.
[5:26] they may delay your payments you agree that you'll be paid
[5:28] every three months and
[5:30] five months down the line they still not paid you and any
[5:33] attempt to seek them to
[5:34] honor your invoices powers are met with hostility sometimes
[5:38] even threatening of the
[5:39] termination of the contract or the contract is actually
[5:41] terminated so that abuse of
[5:42] buyer power is again a key element of what we do so the last
[5:46] bit is what the fourth
[5:48] SPEAKER_00: technical department is under consumer protection
[5:50] SPEAKER_00: This is the focus of our discussion today.
[5:52] SPEAKER_00: So as a consumer, you're protected in the Constitution.
[5:55] SPEAKER_00: The Competition Act, again, has elements of consumer protection.
[5:59] We receive complaints or we go to the market and check that
[6:02] people are not
[6:03] SPEAKER_00: infringing upon the rights of consumers.
[6:05] SPEAKER_00: And that is what Mr.
[6:05] SPEAKER_00: Kamiti,
[6:06] SPEAKER_00: the manager in charge of that department,
[6:08] SPEAKER_00: is going to discuss today.
[6:09] SPEAKER_00: So I'll allow him to come in.
[6:10] And I think that's about it in terms of an overview of what the
[6:13] authority does.
[6:13] SPEAKER_00: Mr. Kamiti.
[6:15] Thank you,
[6:15] Rama,
[6:16] and Mwanko Capital,
[6:17] and the opportunities on consumer protection issues.
[6:20] The Consumer Protection Department and staff are investigating
[6:24] and physically
[6:25] SPEAKER_02: enhancing the welfare of consumers in the Kenyan economy.
[6:29] We get this mandate from the constitution when the provisions
[6:32] of the Competition
[6:34] SPEAKER_02: Act on Consumer Welfare come into play.
[6:36] The various provisions or the various sources to which we
[6:40] undertake these investigations
[6:42] SPEAKER_02: We have false or misleading representations.
[6:44] SPEAKER_02: We run questionable conduct.
[6:46] SPEAKER_02: We look at aspects of productivity and inter-productivity.
[6:51] SPEAKER_02: We can be able to receive complaints.
[6:55] A lot from consumers are yourselves,
[6:58] but we also have a mandate to go out into the public.
[7:02] SPEAKER_02: We undertake mystery shopping.
[7:05] SPEAKER_02: We go out and purchase products or look at services and see whether their
[7:10] SPEAKER_01: vaccination is on the range.
[7:11] I've just put up a link to the 2023-2024 annual report that CAK
[7:16] put out quite recently,
[7:17] SPEAKER_01: just so that some of our listeners can essentially just read that and
[7:20] SPEAKER_01: At the leisure,
[7:21] I'll pull along and see exactly what cases that we're talking
[7:24] about when it comes
[7:24] SPEAKER_01: to consumer protection.
[7:25] SPEAKER_01: Later on,
[7:26] SPEAKER_01: as the entire conversation does continue,
[7:28] SPEAKER_01: but I want to start with the fundamental things.
[7:31] We often really just do not think about consumer rights,
[7:35] at least not in this marketplace.
[7:36] SPEAKER_01: We have an idea when we've done wrong, built a bad hat.
[7:39] SPEAKER_01: in our service, by a service provider, by people we buy things from.
[7:44] But what are the key consumer rights that all of us think
[7:46] should be aware of?
[7:47] It is very true that there are key consumer rights that every
[7:51] candidate should be aware of.
[7:53] SPEAKER_02: Most of us are not aware of this.
[7:55] The first one is consumers have a right to goals and values of
[7:59] reasonable quality.
[8:01] SPEAKER_02: As I indicated,
[8:02] all these rights are entrenched in the article for the state of
[8:05] the Constitution of Canada.
[8:07] And the second right is that consumers have a right to
[8:10] information necessary for
[8:12] SPEAKER_02: them to gain full benefit from goods and services,
[8:15] meaning that when you go to a supermarket and purchase
[8:18] something or you go to a
[8:19] SPEAKER_02: financial services sector to get a facility alone,
[8:23] SPEAKER_02: then you need to be given information.
[8:24] SPEAKER_02: Information.
[8:25] You have a right to that information so that you are able to
[8:28] gain full benefits
[8:30] from the tax that you have bought or the savings that you want
[8:33] from the third supplier.
[8:35] The third right is consumers have a right to protection of
[8:39] disability and economic care.
[8:41] SPEAKER_02: In fact,
[8:41] SPEAKER_02: when we talk about the rights to the protection of their safety,
[8:44] SPEAKER_02: we look at the product fit,
[8:46] SPEAKER_02: we look at what you have spent on that particular product or stuff.
[8:49] And the last few is the consumer that has a right to
[8:52] compensation for loss or
[8:54] SPEAKER_02: injury arising from dishes and goods and services.
[8:58] because you have a right to be given that balance that is the
[9:02] constant of the
[9:03] SPEAKER_02: amount that you have paid for that product or service.
[9:06] And if there is a channel that will require that you are
[9:09] regarded at the money that
[9:11] SPEAKER_02: you have spent or the aspect of preplating,
[9:14] then you have a right to get that sort of regret for any loss
[9:18] or agent arising from
[9:19] SPEAKER_02: defects in goods and services.
[9:21] SPEAKER_01: One of the things that strikes me,
[9:22] just going through some of the cases that CAK has dealt with
[9:27] right over the years,
[9:28] the impression I get is that companies essentially are abusing
[9:31] a position.
[9:32] SPEAKER_01: It's an abuser by a part in some senses,
[9:35] SPEAKER_01: because a lot of these cases only get resolved once a regulator shows up.
[9:39] SPEAKER_01: I'll read some examples here so our audience can follow along.
[9:42] SPEAKER_01: Margaret Muhacki versus Chico Sacco.
[9:45] The complainant withdrew her membership from the Sacco,
[9:47] but she was not refunded the savings.
[9:48] But the complainant was refunded only after the authority had intervened.
[9:53] SPEAKER_01: In e-commerce,
[9:53] SPEAKER_01: for example,
[9:54] SPEAKER_01: Colleen Sinjarou versus Killimall,
[9:55] SPEAKER_01: the complainant bought two items on the Killimall app.
[9:58] SPEAKER_01: One item was missing in the pickup station,
[10:00] SPEAKER_01: but the delivery note indicated that both items are not packaged.
[10:03] And Killimall was insisting that both items had been dispatched
[10:06] to the pickup
[10:07] SPEAKER_01: station for collection.
[10:08] But only after intervention by CAK did Killimall then deliver
[10:11] the item in question.
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: And there are quite a few of these that come up.
[10:15] Is the general attitude that I guess you encounter that
[10:18] companies feel because
[10:20] SPEAKER_01: they've not been held to account in the past.
[10:22] SPEAKER_01: Therefore,
[10:22] there's certain behavior that's become entrenched in the
[10:24] marketplace so they feel
[10:25] SPEAKER_01: they can get a leap.
[10:26] SPEAKER_02: If indeed, that's a great step of fielding authority.
[10:30] SPEAKER_02: Yes, each time we handle some of these complaints.
[10:33] And that's where our role comes in protecting consumers from a
[10:36] business practice.
[10:37] Because if we do not come in with them,
[10:40] the rights of consumers are greatly violated.
[10:43] SPEAKER_02: But even as we resolve these complaints,
[10:45] one important thing we do is to be able to create awareness and
[10:50] to ensure that we
[10:50] SPEAKER_02: answer them.
[10:52] SPEAKER_02: is that we go ahead to educate these businesses.
[10:54] We sit down with them and educate them about the need to
[10:58] enhance the rights of consumers.
[11:00] And our role is really spelled out under the Competition Act of
[11:03] Parable 4.
[11:05] SPEAKER_02: And how do we do that?
[11:06] SPEAKER_02: We do that through various ways.
[11:08] Other than receiving complaints from consumers,
[11:10] we initiate investigation into policy.
[11:13] issues,
[11:13] and especially those with maybe systemic,
[11:16] or that will empower the population.
[11:18] SPEAKER_02: Talking about the example that she gave on this hack,
[11:21] SPEAKER_02: is that once we receive the plant and resolve,
[11:24] SPEAKER_02: we do,
[11:25] SPEAKER_02: we work with the regulator,
[11:26] SPEAKER_02: because there's a regulator in place,
[11:29] where we inform them about this complaint that we have
[11:32] conceived and how we have handled them.
[11:35] SPEAKER_02: But again,
[11:36] we go ahead to look at whether this contract is widespread and
[11:42] see that the
[11:43] SPEAKER_02: contract is probably widespread,
[11:45] SPEAKER_02: then we're coming to take the gap.
[11:47] SPEAKER_02: I'll give you an example.
[11:48] SPEAKER_02: In the pre-issues of transparency and disclosure,
[11:51] SPEAKER_02: transactions conducted by mobile phone,
[11:55] SPEAKER_02: then we did not just look at one digital financial service.
[11:58] SPEAKER_02: We looked at all the providers of digital services,
[12:02] SPEAKER_02: from the telecoms to the digital loan app to the banking sector.
[12:07] And then we came up with the requirement where they were
[12:09] supposed to disclose feed
[12:11] SPEAKER_02: after the transaction was conducted.
[12:14] SPEAKER_02: And that was about six months to one year later,
[12:17] we noticed that the awareness levels of consumers on feed
[12:21] requirements for
[12:22] transactions conducted through the mobile phone increased from
[12:26] as low as 25% to as
[12:27] SPEAKER_02: high of 90%.
[12:28] SPEAKER_02: So we deleted that.
[12:32] SPEAKER_02: This really impacted quite a number of consumers.
[12:34] So we are able to intervene in various ways to carry out
[12:37] studies and campaigns to
[12:39] SPEAKER_02: engage consumers.
[12:40] SPEAKER_02: To be able to point out all these issues that you,
[12:43] SPEAKER_02: given the example that you have indicated,
[12:46] SPEAKER_02: is that we come in to advise the government upon consumer report issues.
[12:50] SPEAKER_02: For example, we give an advice
[12:52] But you mentioned the next area I want to go into,
[12:55] digital lending,
[12:56] e-commerce.
[12:56] SPEAKER_02: Here,
[12:56] SPEAKER_02: it's fairly ubiquitous now for most Kenyans,
[12:59] SPEAKER_02: anyway,
[12:59] SPEAKER_02: to be using mobile money by default rather than paying the thing in cash.
[13:05] SPEAKER_01: But there's always this interesting example that comes up, or
[13:22] SPEAKER_01: non-disclosure of what's charged with a specific transaction.
[13:27] SPEAKER_01: So for example, you could pay for parking with your SSD.
[13:30] SPEAKER_01: You may not always be told,
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: oh,
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: by the way,
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: to do this,
[13:33] SPEAKER_01: we're going to charge you X amount of money,
[13:35] SPEAKER_01: right?
[13:36] SPEAKER_01: So there'll be the parking fee,
[13:37] but then we're going to deduct X amount of money out of your
[13:39] airtime in order to
[13:40] SPEAKER_01: facilitate the service.
[13:42] SPEAKER_01: And that may not be properly disclosed.
[13:44] How do we handle that sort of behavior in the marketplace where
[13:48] companies will be making money?
[13:50] SPEAKER_01: We're not saying they don't have the right to make cash,
[13:51] but there's no proper disclosure of all the fees involved in a transaction.
[13:56] SPEAKER_02: Indeed,
[13:56] all feed and cargings need to be disclosed to a consumer prior
[14:01] to conducting a transfraction.
[14:02] SPEAKER_02: So you're keen for packing.
[14:04] SPEAKER_02: and you're using either a USB or any other phone,
[14:09] SPEAKER_02: especially the digital phone,
[14:10] SPEAKER_02: then you need to be aware of how to charge.
[14:14] We are seeing that we have started receiving what I would say
[14:17] is a requirement on this phone.
[14:18] And what we normally do as much as we may not have received
[14:23] that particular
[14:24] SPEAKER_02: complaint from any own consumers,
[14:27] SPEAKER_02: what we do is that we proceed to handle that.
[14:31] SPEAKER_02: And if you look at specialties and unquestionable conduct or act,
[14:37] SPEAKER_02: there's a provision,
[14:38] there's a clause that indicates that a supplier who is a player
[14:43] of the financial
[14:44] SPEAKER_02: services needs to disclose specialties,
[14:47] SPEAKER_02: buy-key insurance,
[14:48] or any public needs to disclose all the fees and charges
[14:52] associated with that
[14:53] SPEAKER_02: particular transaction.
[14:54] and WorkSphere Authority has started doing as much as we have
[14:58] not seen any
[14:59] SPEAKER_02: particular complaint on this.
[15:01] We have started engaging some of these companies because they
[15:04] need to disclose some
[15:06] SPEAKER_02: sort of timing at the point where you're making the payment,
[15:10] SPEAKER_02: that if you're using USSD to make payment,
[15:14] then the transaction cost is going to be pensions because of
[15:17] things that have
[15:18] SPEAKER_02: recharged customers for such a transaction.
[15:21] But what has also been made available is the opportunity for
[15:26] you to conduct a transaction.
[15:28] SPEAKER_02: I'll give you an example.
[15:29] That's why there's the field that is disclosed to conducting a transaction.
[15:36] SPEAKER_02: So if you're not happy
[15:39] SPEAKER_02: that you're going to be charged 10 units on top of that,
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: then you have the opportunity to press 2 to cancel the transaction,
[15:48] SPEAKER_02: and then proceed to pay cash.
[15:50] SPEAKER_02: You might ask, what if I did not have cash, and you only had that USP?
[15:56] SPEAKER_02: Is that, you know, that is the choice that has been created.
[16:00] SPEAKER_02: However,
[16:00] we still insist that there should be some sort of silence at
[16:03] the point of paying,
[16:05] SPEAKER_02: saying that while using USP,
[16:07] There's going to be a transactional cost that you're going to
[16:10] be charged.
[16:11] One of the things that a lot of our listeners will see when
[16:14] they're reading through
[16:15] some of the cases they're referring to in terms of consumer
[16:17] protection is that
[16:18] SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of referral in some cases to other regulators.
[16:21] There are cases that end up being handled by the Civil Aviation Authority,
[16:24] for example.
[16:25] SPEAKER_01: There are others, like for example, you're working with Sanstrat.
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: the SACO regulate and so on and so forth.
[16:31] SPEAKER_01: How does that usually work?
[16:32] SPEAKER_01: So say,
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: for example,
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: in a hypothetical situation that someone's got an issue with their SACO,
[16:36] SPEAKER_01: they come to you with a complaint.
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: Then what happens at that point?
[16:39] Do you have jurisdiction over that matter because it's a
[16:42] consumer protection issue
[16:44] SPEAKER_01: or does it have to be handled collaboratively with SACO?
[16:48] One thing I'd like to indicate is that the competition
[16:52] authority obtaining has the
[16:54] SPEAKER_02: overall mandate,
[16:56] SPEAKER_02: our consumer protection,
[16:58] SPEAKER_02: and we look at that across all sectors.
[17:00] And when we receive such a complaint is that we have procedures
[17:05] which we use to
[17:06] SPEAKER_02: assess the complaint.
[17:08] SPEAKER_02: And at first instance, we can proceed to handle it.
[17:12] SPEAKER_02: But what you do first is that we tell the person who has complained,
[17:16] SPEAKER_02: we ask them,
[17:17] did you report this matter to that particular undertaking that
[17:23] has agreed to you?
[17:25] And if they reported that it was not resolved,
[17:27] then you can proceed to handle it.
[17:29] SPEAKER_02: Because you want to give an opportunity to the accused party
[17:33] SPEAKER_02: to resolve the matter.
[17:35] SPEAKER_02: But if it has not been resolved, then we can proceed to assessing.
[17:39] SPEAKER_02: But sometimes,
[17:40] SPEAKER_02: as we assess the matter,
[17:42] SPEAKER_02: we could establish that there is a lot of technical aspects to make.
[17:47] SPEAKER_02: There are complaints that we receive,
[17:50] SPEAKER_02: for example,
[17:50] insurance services that touches on respectable issues relating
[17:55] to the insurance.
[17:58] Or could they still complain with regarding motor vehicles or
[18:01] some physical
[18:03] SPEAKER_02: problems that are technically weird?
[18:05] SPEAKER_02: And at that point,
[18:07] SPEAKER_02: it really invokes the proposition that we have within the law,
[18:11] SPEAKER_02: because under Section 668,
[18:13] we can be able to form such complaints to the relevant
[18:17] government agencies for resolution.
[18:19] And we don't just rule our act for the most of the regulations
[18:24] that you have indicated.
[18:26] SPEAKER_02: For example,
[18:27] SPEAKER_02: even Communications Authority,
[18:28] SPEAKER_02: Insurance Regulatory Authority,
[18:30] SPEAKER_02: EK,
[18:31] SPEAKER_02: Central Bank of Kenya,
[18:32] SPEAKER_02: we have...
[18:33] SPEAKER_02: in a random of understandings that we have changed.
[18:37] And it is through that avenue that we are able to forward this
[18:42] conference to parent
[18:44] SPEAKER_02: people who resolve it.
[18:45] SPEAKER_02: So that's how we do it.
[18:46] SPEAKER_02: We don't investigate the matter together,
[18:49] SPEAKER_02: is that we undertake our first assessment,
[18:51] SPEAKER_02: and if it is something that we can proceed with,
[18:54] SPEAKER_02: then the ecology proceeds with that work.
[18:57] SPEAKER_02: It becomes something that we feel is highly technical in nature,
[19:00] SPEAKER_02: then we forward to the relevant everybody to
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: The other trend that I see emerging,
[19:05] SPEAKER_01: at least in some of the cases that you've had to deal with,
[19:08] SPEAKER_01: is a situation where,
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: for example,
[19:10] SPEAKER_01: someone comes in,
[19:10] SPEAKER_01: they've got a constraint,
[19:12] SPEAKER_01: but they're not able to substantiate.
[19:14] SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example here.
[19:15] SPEAKER_01: There's one in the annual report of Anthony Bambuara versus Mogo,
[19:19] SPEAKER_01: where the complainants took a local loan of around $1,600,
[19:24] SPEAKER_01: but the sum was dispersed in the cash link.
[19:26] He was required to repay it in US dollars using the prevailing
[19:29] exchange rate,
[19:29] SPEAKER_01: but even after making payments of
[19:32] SPEAKER_01: 1,246 US dollars.
[19:34] SPEAKER_01: Morgos still said he owed them another 630.
[19:37] SPEAKER_01: And in this instance,
[19:38] the complainant failed to provide the evidence in support with
[19:41] allegations and the
[19:42] SPEAKER_01: case was closed.
[19:43] SPEAKER_01: So even if consumers come to the UK,
[19:46] SPEAKER_01: at the very least,
[19:47] it's important to have all the documentation in hand to support
[19:51] the allegations
[19:51] SPEAKER_01: that they're making against a firm and so on and so forth.
[19:54] SPEAKER_01: The ultimate idea here is that if I'm coming to you as a complainant,
[19:57] SPEAKER_01: I need to have the data in hand,
[19:59] SPEAKER_01: receipts,
[20:00] SPEAKER_01: proof of purchase,
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: communication of the firm,
[20:02] SPEAKER_01: rather than just showing up and saying,
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: so-and-so screwed me over.
[20:05] SPEAKER_01: They provided this service,
[20:06] SPEAKER_01: so they provided this good,
[20:07] SPEAKER_01: or I paid them for a service that they did not deliver.
[20:10] SPEAKER_01: But I need to have evidence in hands to prove that case.
[20:13] SPEAKER_02: You're very right,
[20:14] SPEAKER_02: but some of the consumers that come to us,
[20:16] SPEAKER_02: or those who complain to us,
[20:18] SPEAKER_02: we realize they did not have any evidence.
[20:21] SPEAKER_02: The authority obviously is subject to the Fair Administrative Action Act.
[20:26] SPEAKER_02: We have to be fair to all parties, consumers, and both beginners.
[20:30] And some of the biggest misconceptions that Kenyans have about
[20:33] consumer rights and
[20:34] SPEAKER_02: consumer issues is the application of their responsibilities.
[20:38] SPEAKER_02: And go ahead and penalize some of these businesses.
[20:41] And we found instances where consumers have lodged complaints
[20:46] and they do not have
[20:47] the evidence or theory that there's an element of where the
[20:51] consumer is not telling
[20:52] SPEAKER_02: the truth.
[20:53] SPEAKER_02: And we are trying to educate consumers as much as possible.
[20:58] The first thing that you have indicated that they need to have
[21:01] evidential information.
[21:02] SPEAKER_02: They need to keep their risk.
[21:04] SPEAKER_02: When you make a purchase,
[21:05] SPEAKER_02: then you need to keep your receipt,
[21:07] SPEAKER_02: you need to keep your warranty card,
[21:09] the agreement that you have been given for a service that you
[21:12] are thinking we
[21:13] SPEAKER_02: better particularly provide them.
[21:15] SPEAKER_02: And most importantly,
[21:17] SPEAKER_02: the first obligation,
[21:19] SPEAKER_02: the first line of defense is you and the consumer purchasing the product.
[21:23] When you go to the supermarket to purchase a product,
[21:27] you're still obligated to redo the labels.
[21:29] SPEAKER_02: If it's the price start on the shelf,
[21:32] SPEAKER_02: then you're obligated to know what the price is or the product itself.
[21:37] SPEAKER_02: Then you need to work through the list of ingredients or
[21:40] the nutritional equal mention and to check whether the equal
[21:43] mention that you have
[21:44] been given is good enough for you to be able to consume that
[21:48] particular problem.
[21:49] Then also for services and loans that you have taken from these
[21:53] financial providers
[21:54] SPEAKER_02: that you find that most consumers do not pay the terms on conditions.
[21:59] The appearance of the world will not be able to lead on returns
[22:02] and conditions.
[22:03] SPEAKER_02: It is because the small in farms or they are too legalistic.
[22:07] SPEAKER_02: But what we have seen,
[22:08] SPEAKER_02: the trend that is going on nowadays in financial service organizations,
[22:12] SPEAKER_02: especially financial service providers,
[22:15] have seen that what they need to disclose to consumers is
[22:19] information which is very...
[22:21] SPEAKER_02: Right now,
[22:22] SPEAKER_02: when you go for a loan to any bank,
[22:25] then they're going to give you a separate document which shows
[22:28] the total cost.
[22:29] SPEAKER_02: And that way,
[22:30] you're given the information for you to make a decision on
[22:34] whether you'd want your
[22:35] SPEAKER_02: skills to take up that financing point.
[22:38] I keep on speaking about loans because you have seen a lot of
[22:41] complaints currently
[22:43] SPEAKER_02: from the financial services sector.
[22:45] SPEAKER_02: We are finding consumers not really to meet their obligations.
[22:50] SPEAKER_02: We know there could be issues with the closure of rapid fees and charges,
[22:56] SPEAKER_02: but we are starting to see a situation where
[22:59] SPEAKER_02: Consumers are trying to bring a complaint to us.
[23:02] SPEAKER_02: And through our analysis,
[23:04] SPEAKER_02: we were able to detect that this particular consumer who is complaining.
[23:09] And there were some applicable charges that didn't disclose by
[23:13] that financial service provider.
[23:16] SPEAKER_02: But the complainer did not adhere to that.
[23:19] SPEAKER_02: So when they come to the authority, open authority, we come to...
[23:25] SPEAKER_02: intervene.
[23:26] So those are some of the things that we are seeing and we are
[23:28] trying to educate
[23:29] consumers on the need for them to really meet their part of the
[23:33] bargain or miss
[23:34] their obligations so that the authority when it comes to
[23:38] undertake an investigation
[23:40] SPEAKER_02: then we can be able to be there to work parties.
[23:43] SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
[23:43] SPEAKER_01: Just before we get into some feedback that's coming through on Twitter,
[23:47] given the fact that a lot of these conversations between
[23:50] consumers and companies on
[23:51] SPEAKER_01: one hand,
[23:52] SPEAKER_01: a lot of it has to essentially be on record.
[23:54] Are you now seeing a tendency where some companies may try and
[23:59] avoid having written
[24:00] SPEAKER_01: records of conversations that they're having with their clients,
[24:03] effectively trying to not have receipt that would essentially
[24:06] expose it to any sort
[24:07] SPEAKER_01: of legal liability?
[24:08] SPEAKER_01: So for example, he's dealing with a client's
[24:10] SPEAKER_01: matter on email, they end up having phone conversations instead.
[24:14] SPEAKER_01: And that inevitably,
[24:15] SPEAKER_01: once this comes up in court,
[24:16] SPEAKER_01: it might end up becoming a he said,
[24:18] SPEAKER_01: she said situation.
[24:19] Are you seeing that sort of avoidance behavior,
[24:21] if you may call it that,
[24:22] from companies?
[24:23] I wouldn't know whether to call it an avoidance behavior,
[24:26] but we'd make it a favor.
[24:28] But how we handle that particular issue is that when we receive
[24:33] a complaint from a consumer,
[24:35] SPEAKER_02: then we advise them to write to that particular business.
[24:40] We're quite tiny with diverse content that we do to our
[24:44] consumers or to any other
[24:45] SPEAKER_02: party or else to the authority.
[24:47] Then we find that a particular business is really moving fast
[24:51] to resolve the issue.
[24:52] Why we are happy when the issue is resolved is that we know
[24:55] consumers would like a
[24:57] SPEAKER_02: resolution which is very tiny and fast.
[24:59] SPEAKER_02: And we are happy when it's being able to resolve.
[25:02] SPEAKER_02: But again, what authority goes ahead?
[25:05] Because we may not have established whether that behavior was
[25:09] intentional or non-intentional,
[25:11] SPEAKER_02: then we give a warning.
[25:13] We can give a warning to the big company,
[25:16] and our warnings are quite strong.
[25:18] We write a letter and indicate that if we receive such a
[25:22] complaint in the future,
[25:24] the authority will proceed to impose hashtag on that particular
[25:28] busy night.
[25:29] SPEAKER_02: So we work on another way around in a process.
[25:32] There's an interesting question that I mean in response to the
[25:35] space at the moment.
[25:51] SPEAKER_01: Particularly individual,
[25:51] SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure what their specific name or stamp is,
[25:54] SPEAKER_01: but I'm just going to read out the complaint here.
[25:56] SPEAKER_01: The person says this.
[25:57] I bought a microwave from a major Nairobi supermarket on the
[26:01] 7th of March.
[26:02] This supermarket refused to test it or purchase,
[26:05] but they assured me of a 14-day return policy.
[26:09] SPEAKER_01: The microwave then made strange noises,
[26:10] SPEAKER_01: so I went back a few days later,
[26:12] SPEAKER_01: but no help was offered.
[26:14] SPEAKER_01: On the 19th of March, still within the return period,
[26:16] SPEAKER_01: I returned it.
[26:17] SPEAKER_01: Now they say it'll take 14 days to check it.
[26:20] SPEAKER_01: If they refuse to test it at purchase, why should I be waiting now?
[26:23] SPEAKER_01: What do consumer laws say about this?
[26:26] SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting case here that we're dealing with, committee.
[26:28] SPEAKER_01: What should we advise these customers to do?
[26:30] The important thing I've gotten from that I've done a quick
[26:33] analysis is that there
[26:34] SPEAKER_02: was a 14-day return policy that when they return a product,
[26:38] SPEAKER_02: they have to be looked at.
[26:40] SPEAKER_02: And...
[26:41] SPEAKER_02: That particular consumer needs to be given a title.
[26:45] SPEAKER_02: The supermarket needs to give a title from which
[26:49] SPEAKER_02: They agreed to look at the product,
[26:51] but the timeline should not be long to prevent the consumer
[26:56] from enjoying the
[26:57] product that he purchased and the representation that
[27:01] particular product was due.
[27:03] And what I would advise the listener is if the supermarket does
[27:07] not give back to you,
[27:08] SPEAKER_02: the audience,
[27:09] with ways in which you can be able to reach the authority and
[27:12] to launch your complaint.
[27:14] SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
[27:14] And we'll certainly have a lot of those details coming in
[27:17] towards the tail end of
[27:18] SPEAKER_01: the space when Pete and Co take over the conversation.
[27:20] SPEAKER_01: There's another question here that's actually come in from Samir Tabej.
[27:24] SPEAKER_01: And he's saying, look, he's still here.
[27:26] SPEAKER_01: He's waiting for someone to refund his money.
[27:28] SPEAKER_01: He says that the Civil Innovation Authority has essentially gone quiet.
[27:33] SPEAKER_01: And the Competition Authority says, look, we've done our part.
[27:36] SPEAKER_01: And here's a background to this specific case.
[27:37] SPEAKER_01: I mean, East African Airways cancels the complainant's flights.
[27:40] SPEAKER_01: And then they failed to refund him the costs of tickets.
[27:44] SPEAKER_01: This case did go to the competition authority.
[27:46] SPEAKER_01: It's cited in that particular report.
[27:48] And CK says the matter was referred to the civil evasion
[27:51] authority and the case was closed.
[27:53] So in the event of a case like this,
[27:55] Secretary T,
[27:56] what sort of recourse does Samir have?
[27:58] SPEAKER_01: Does he come back to you?
[27:59] SPEAKER_01: Does this now go to a small claims court?
[28:01] SPEAKER_02: Drama.
[28:02] I'm seeing iterations of the fact that this fund that you have
[28:05] indicated were from consumers,
[28:07] SPEAKER_02: just having picked it from this particular business,
[28:11] SPEAKER_02: or before any other business,
[28:13] and when you handle the matter and the reform of the matter to
[28:17] your civil aviation
[28:18] SPEAKER_02: authority because they're the ones who license these institutions.
[28:22] SPEAKER_02: is that unfortunately now the consumer cannot come back to us.
[28:26] SPEAKER_02: And the only way they can be able to get a refund,
[28:29] SPEAKER_02: because there is a business that has closed due to various reasons,
[28:33] SPEAKER_02: is to now put the small court.
[28:35] I'm fortunate that some of these businesses are empty and some
[28:38] sort of are rent from consumers.
[28:40] SPEAKER_02: And we're also receiving complaints, not just from the LA sector, but
[28:45] from other sectors that are working in sector,
[28:48] and it will not turn back.
[28:49] SPEAKER_02: A lot of these cannot be handled within the presence competition part,
[28:53] SPEAKER_02: and these complaints or these issues border on fraud.
[28:57] SPEAKER_02: So then there is an aspect of where the DTRI needs to come in,
[29:01] SPEAKER_02: especially with a company which may be amorphous,
[29:04] SPEAKER_02: but there's also an aspect of going to the small players' core,
[29:09] SPEAKER_02: especially with a business which has been in existence.
[29:15] And really getting the redirect warning to get from the court
[29:19] because unfortunately
[29:20] SPEAKER_02: for such a matter,
[29:21] SPEAKER_02: the competition cannot be able to provide that sort of privilege.
[29:25] Peter,
[29:25] I know you want to comment a little bit,
[29:27] at least in the case of the airline sector.
[29:29] Do you want to give us more details on exactly what happened
[29:31] with East African Airways?
[29:32] SPEAKER_00: What committee has informed you is accurate.
[29:34] This issue related to two different or I think there were three
[29:38] different airlines.
[29:39] SPEAKER_00: So they all went down or closed shop.
[29:41] SPEAKER_00: They're small budget airlines.
[29:44] SPEAKER_00: So in one case, we actually issued a cease and desist order.
[29:47] SPEAKER_00: We found that despite the fact that they know the financial problems,
[29:51] SPEAKER_00: they still go ahead and they keep their portal on the website open.
[29:54] They collect the tickets ostensibly for flights which they are
[29:58] aware they won't honor.
[30:00] SPEAKER_00: So there's an element there again for...
[30:03] SPEAKER_00: So in this case,
[30:04] SPEAKER_00: once we noticed that airline,
[30:05] SPEAKER_00: not this one specifically about East Africa,
[30:07] SPEAKER_00: we issued a cease and cease order.
[30:09] SPEAKER_00: And since it's public knowledge, the order is on our website.
[30:12] SPEAKER_00: It was fly 540.
[30:13] SPEAKER_00: So in this case, they went ahead and still collected.
[30:16] So once the complaints came to our consumer protection
[30:18] department to just ensure
[30:20] SPEAKER_00: that this problem at least stops,
[30:22] SPEAKER_00: we issued a cease and cease order.
[30:24] SPEAKER_00: We publicized it quite a bit.
[30:25] SPEAKER_00: telling the airline to stop collecting monies from the public.
[30:30] SPEAKER_00: I think that helped in this case.
[30:32] SPEAKER_00: But what the committee is saying is that sometimes,
[30:34] SPEAKER_00: and in that specific issue of Flight 540,
[30:37] SPEAKER_00: the truth of the matter is that we actually forward this to KTA,
[30:40] SPEAKER_00: and we also forward the same file to the DCI.
[30:43] where we find that our jurisdiction is a bit limited or our
[30:47] competition law cannot allow us.
[30:48] SPEAKER_00: We don't have prosecutorial powers.
[30:50] SPEAKER_00: We can't do much about it.
[30:52] SPEAKER_00: We forward to the parties or the regulator that has,
[30:54] SPEAKER_00: or the government agents in this case,
[30:56] SPEAKER_00: for instance,
[30:56] SPEAKER_00: the police service,
[30:57] SPEAKER_00: the DCI.
[30:58] SPEAKER_00: So that was a background about these two or three airlines.
[31:02] SPEAKER_01: So then unfortunately,
[31:03] SPEAKER_01: Samir,
[31:03] it seems the next step for you here will be to head over to the
[31:06] sport claims court
[31:07] SPEAKER_01: in order to try and get that refund.
[31:09] SPEAKER_01: There's a question that's come up here.
[31:10] SPEAKER_01: In my case, it came in on WhatsApp.
[31:12] SPEAKER_01: What are the consequences for companies that are repeat offenders?
[31:15] If you find firms that are repeatedly violating consumer rights
[31:19] and breaching the
[31:20] SPEAKER_01: law over and over again,
[31:22] SPEAKER_01: and they issue a refund here,
[31:24] SPEAKER_01: that one small case there,
[31:25] SPEAKER_01: but it's a longstanding pattern of them just
[31:27] SPEAKER_01: for lack of a better word, dealing their clients a bad hat.
[31:31] SPEAKER_01: What happens then?
[31:33] SPEAKER_02: What we do is that we evoke now steep penalties.
[31:37] SPEAKER_02: We enforce steep penalties on that particular institution.
[31:42] SPEAKER_02: One of the things that we do,
[31:43] we can impose a pecuniary penalty up to 10% of the previous
[31:48] year's annual growth turnover.
[31:50] We have died back for several companies if you go through our
[31:54] idle reports,
[31:55] SPEAKER_02: especially the promotions from Swiss sector,
[31:57] SPEAKER_02: where we have seen complaints coming in,
[32:00] SPEAKER_02: and despite that issuing several warnings to the businesses,
[32:03] SPEAKER_02: is able to hear the complaints and introduce them,
[32:07] SPEAKER_02: and proceed to analyze those companies.
[32:09] Another thing we do is we can report our conditions to reverse
[32:14] our infringement.
[32:15] SPEAKER_02: And as much as we pose the conditions,
[32:18] SPEAKER_02: it's that we monitor the compliance with those conditions.
[32:22] And also what Ugambi has indicated is that we can proceed to
[32:27] form this particular
[32:28] file to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecution for
[32:32] Prosecution under
[32:33] SPEAKER_02: Section 17.
[32:35] One of the more famous cases that you mentioned that the
[32:38] authorities have to deal
[32:39] SPEAKER_02: with has been,
[32:40] SPEAKER_02: especially in the non-deposit,
[32:42] SPEAKER_02: taking lending space with specific
[32:53] SPEAKER_01: firms.
[32:53] And I know Mogo has been pretty much one of the more common
[32:56] ones that we've seen
[32:57] SPEAKER_01: pretty much right across the board.
[32:58] Can you walk us through exactly what sort of pattern of
[33:01] behavior we saw in that particular case?
[33:03] SPEAKER_01: Why was it that individuals would come in and say,
[33:05] SPEAKER_01: we borrowed X amount of money,
[33:06] but the amount of cash that we ended up repaying was way beyond
[33:10] what we borrowed
[33:11] SPEAKER_01: plus interest?
[33:12] Was that just a matter of routine non-disclosure or is it just
[33:15] routine overcharging
[33:16] SPEAKER_01: of clients that we've seen?
[33:18] SPEAKER_02: For that particular matter,
[33:19] there was an element of calls or which made in representations
[33:24] and what we'd call
[33:25] SPEAKER_02: unconscionable conduct,
[33:27] SPEAKER_02: where a supplier has a higher bargaining power over a consumer.
[33:31] And what we saw from that particular situation is that consumer
[33:36] loans were being priced in USD.
[33:39] So your repayments were actually priced in USD in such that as
[33:42] much as you were
[33:43] SPEAKER_02: given your facility,
[33:44] SPEAKER_02: In Kenyan shillings, the new requirements were in the US dollar.
[33:49] And you remember the time where the exchange rate from the
[33:52] Kenyan shillings to the
[33:53] SPEAKER_02: dollar was at a higher of about 100 days.
[33:57] SPEAKER_02: During those times,
[33:58] SPEAKER_02: or that particular period,
[33:59] most consumers launched companies because what they were paying
[34:03] for as a loan
[34:04] SPEAKER_02: charge was basically not sustainable.
[34:06] And then the report remained a thick family investigation into
[34:10] this particular
[34:10] SPEAKER_02: aspect of it,
[34:12] SPEAKER_02: and noted that these were those in terms and conditions,
[34:15] SPEAKER_02: knowing the load terms or condition.
[34:18] SPEAKER_02: And that's where now I come to that.
[34:20] SPEAKER_02: But on the report,
[34:21] SPEAKER_02: interestingly,
[34:22] SPEAKER_02: some of these terms remain a situation that may not have been disclosed,
[34:27] SPEAKER_02: but again,
[34:27] SPEAKER_02: it was the terms.
[34:29] SPEAKER_02: and conditions which probably the consumer was not able to detect.
[34:33] SPEAKER_02: But then for that particular issue,
[34:35] SPEAKER_02: then the authority came to not only penalize the company,
[34:39] but also we imposed a condition where they were required to
[34:43] resolve any other
[34:44] SPEAKER_02: complaints that they received.
[34:47] SPEAKER_02: So far,
[34:48] SPEAKER_02: they have been resolving complaints successfully,
[34:51] SPEAKER_02: and the ones who took out the loans for that particular company,
[34:55] SPEAKER_02: we've been receiving feedback that their issues are being resolved.
[34:59] SPEAKER_02: Just to follow up on that,
[34:59] was the issue here in terms of disclosure of the precise terms
[35:02] and conditions and
[35:03] SPEAKER_01: the loans would have to be repaid,
[35:05] was it that the terms and conditions were basically written in
[35:08] very specific legal terms?
[35:10] SPEAKER_01: Legal circles,
[35:11] SPEAKER_01: those guys would understand it,
[35:12] SPEAKER_01: the lawyers would understand it,
[35:13] SPEAKER_01: the listeners would get it,
[35:14] SPEAKER_01: but ordinary citizens like you and I will simply not understand it.
[35:18] SPEAKER_01: Was it also a case of omission in the sense that they say we're going to
[35:20] essentially use the prevailing exchange rate or whatever the
[35:23] dollar shilling rate be?
[35:25] But then they're not specific on how we're defining what the
[35:27] prevailing exchange rate is.
[35:28] SPEAKER_01: The midpoint is published by the Central Bank of Kenya.
[35:31] It's some random brief bank that's known as that the consumer
[35:35] is not being told about.
[35:36] SPEAKER_01: That lack of clarity in detail, was that also part of the problem?
[35:39] It was the lack of clarity of the exchange rate because there
[35:43] was no set of
[35:44] exchange rates that had been indicated in the time and
[35:47] conditions and there was no
[35:48] reference to the prevailing rate or what has been provided by
[35:52] the Central Bank of Kenya.
[35:53] So there was that ambiguity in the language and also the
[35:58] failure to really contact
[35:59] the consumer and let you know that because the current exchange
[36:03] rate has gone up,
[36:04] SPEAKER_02: then your loan repayments are going to go up.
[36:06] SPEAKER_02: Because ordinarily,
[36:08] you will see a reduction in the investor rates or an 8%
[36:12] interest rate in the market.
[36:14] SPEAKER_02: Ideally,
[36:15] the financial service providers should contact you and it
[36:19] indicates to you that
[36:20] SPEAKER_02: your repayments are going to
[36:23] need to be increased or we are going to enhance or to increase
[36:27] the period within
[36:28] SPEAKER_02: which we are going to repair this loan because of 1,
[36:30] SPEAKER_02: 2,
[36:30] SPEAKER_02: 3,
[36:30] SPEAKER_02: 4.
[36:32] So it was a combination of what we call the calls or receiving
[36:35] representations by
[36:37] not disclosing such information and the unquestionable conduct
[36:41] element of using
[36:42] SPEAKER_02: that fire by gaining power called Duma.
[36:45] And so what has been happening is in the resolution of this
[36:49] company is that all
[36:50] SPEAKER_02: loan contracts were converted to pay and shillings.
[36:54] And that now one of the conditions that was given in the
[36:57] settlement agreement with
[36:58] SPEAKER_02: the authorities,
[36:59] SPEAKER_02: with the company,
[37:00] is that all dollar denominated loans should be reversed to pay
[37:06] and shillings under undisclosed.
[37:08] We're fast approaching at 3 p.m.,
[37:09] so I do have to bring the entire conversation to a close.
[37:13] SPEAKER_01: Any final thoughts from your end,
[37:15] SPEAKER_01: committee,
[37:15] on what we should be doing as consumers to try and make sure
[37:18] that our rights are
[37:19] SPEAKER_01: expected by companies?
[37:21] SPEAKER_01: For one,
[37:22] SPEAKER_01: there's a whole list of complaints,
[37:23] SPEAKER_01: of course,
[37:23] SPEAKER_01: that you put out in great detail rather than the annual report.
[37:26] But let's say there are individuals who have been listening to
[37:27] this conversation
[37:28] SPEAKER_01: for the last hour.
[37:29] SPEAKER_01: They want to get in touch with CAK.
[37:30] SPEAKER_01: They want to file a report.
[37:32] SPEAKER_01: How do they go about it?
[37:33] SPEAKER_01: My hand on thoughts,
[37:35] it is trying to be as innovative as possible to ensure our
[37:39] consumers learn about
[37:40] SPEAKER_02: what we do and how they can enhance their welfare.
[37:43] SPEAKER_02: For example,
[37:43] we have embarked on increasing consumer awareness to learners
[37:47] in junior secondary schools.
[37:49] SPEAKER_02: You know,
[37:49] SPEAKER_02: learners are the biggest influencers to power our parents and society,
[37:53] SPEAKER_02: and we are hoping that this will enhance their awareness levels.
[37:56] SPEAKER_02: How they're doing it is a real warfare.
[37:59] the Kenyan Institute of curriculum development to provide
[38:03] content on consumer welfare.
[38:05] SPEAKER_02: You can be able to reach us in many ways.
[38:08] SPEAKER_02: You can write to us directly.
[38:11] SPEAKER_02: We complain at cnk.go.ke.
[38:14] SPEAKER_02: I would encourage all of you to go through our website at www.cnk.go.ke.
[38:22] SPEAKER_02: You can call us, click our landline, or be able to hear complaints.
[38:28] SPEAKER_02: But also, you don't have to come to the authority.
[38:30] SPEAKER_02: You can be able to lodge or to fill out a complaint hall,
[38:34] SPEAKER_02: which you can do that through a portal.
[38:38] We're going to put in a brief with some of those contact
[38:40] details that community and Pete,
[38:41] SPEAKER_01: of course,
[38:41] SPEAKER_01: are talking about.
[38:42] In case you have specific issues that you'd like the
[38:45] conversation authority of
[38:46] SPEAKER_01: Kenya to deal with,
[38:46] SPEAKER_01: any cases you'd like to deal with.
[38:48] SPEAKER_01: And of course,
[38:49] all the details that we've spoken about in terms of consumer
[38:52] protection cases that
[38:53] SPEAKER_01: dealt with,
[38:54] SPEAKER_01: we've listed that in response to the pinned tweet that has a space...
[38:58] SPEAKER_01: On it,
[38:58] SPEAKER_01: from page 157 of the last annual report from Fiscal 2324,
[39:02] there's plenty of details in there that will make it very
[39:06] interesting to read in.
[39:07] SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of our Mango Spaces.
[39:11] SPEAKER_01: Today, we've been covering the question around consumer protection.
[39:14] SPEAKER_01: Here in Kenya,
[39:15] there's a lot of businesses that are still operating pretty
[39:18] much right across the board,
[39:19] SPEAKER_01: all in all sorts of interesting new areas,
[39:22] SPEAKER_01: e-commerce,
[39:22] SPEAKER_01: fintechs,
[39:23] SPEAKER_01: insurance,
[39:24] SPEAKER_01: and so on and so forth.
[39:25] SPEAKER_01: And we often tend to speak about the growth element,
[39:27] SPEAKER_01: right,
[39:27] SPEAKER_01: that comes in with a lot of these investments.
[39:29] But very rarely do we ever speak about your right as a consumer
[39:33] to essentially
[39:33] SPEAKER_01: safeguard your hard-earned cash.
[39:36] Hopefully,
[39:36] over the last hour,
[39:37] we'll provide a bit of understanding on that particular space.
[39:40] SPEAKER_01: But as always, these conversations are by no means definitive.
[39:44] There's plenty more than we could cover here,
[39:46] but we'll see you around on the timeline.
[39:48] SPEAKER_01: And of course, in the next Mongo Spaces.
[39:50] SPEAKER_01: Have a good afternoon.

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