# Chasing the Ancient Stolen Statues of Cambodia

An episode of [Big Take](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1578096201), 21 Jul 2026, 20 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/825d4e29-b616-46f4-afd7-ae2b0013005c/8ef6ef6d-bec5-4570-8cb0-b48e01415487/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=8b1dd624-a026-43e9-8b57-ae2b00130066

When a 1,000-year-old Cambodian statue came up for auction at Sotheby’s in New York, it sparked off an investigation that uncovered one of the world’s most extensive art trafficking networks. On today’s Big Take Asia Podcast, host K. Oanh Ha talks to Bloomberg’s Matthew Campbell and American lawyer Bradley Gordon on how Cambodia’s looted treasures ended up scattered around the world and what it takes to bring them home. Read more: Chasing the Man Who Stole the Gods Watch, from Originals: Cambodia to Museums: We Want Our Statues Back We have a special Bloomberg subscription offer for podcast listeners at Bloomberg.com/podcastoffer. Hosted by K. Oanh Ha; Produced by Naomi Ng; Reported by Matthew Campbell; Edited by Aaron Edwards. Fact-checking by Victor Swezey and Yang Yang; Engineering by Taka Yasuzawa and Emma Munger. Senior Producer: Naomi Shavin; Deputy Executive Producer: Julia Weaver. Executive Producer: Nicole Beemsterboer. Photo by Agnes Dherbeys/The New York Times/Redux See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
[0:10] Speaker 2: In the spring of twenty eleven, an ancient statue from
[0:13] Speaker 2: Cambodia was sent to be auctioned at Sotherby's in New York.
[0:16] Speaker 2: The five foot tall artifact, with its powerful chest and
[0:20] Speaker 2: large round eyes, is known as the Deiro Donna.
[0:23] Speaker 1: The Duria Donna is a thousand year old sandstone sculpture
[0:29] Speaker 1: of a warrior from a Cambodian temple called Cocare.
[0:33] Speaker 2: Matthew Campbell is a senior reporter and editor for Bloomberg BusinessWeek.
[0:38] Speaker 2: Though the figure was sculpted out of stone, it managed
[0:41] Speaker 2: to capture movement, as if the warrior was ready to
[0:44] Speaker 2: leap in a duel.
[0:46] Speaker 1: The object is significant artistically because it is one of
[0:51] Speaker 1: the most amazing stone sculptures that's ever come out of Cambodia,
[0:55] Speaker 1: and specifically of this remarkable ancient civilization called camer Empire,
[1:00] Speaker 1: which produced, among other things, on Kurwat.
[1:03] Speaker 2: Sothebe's was aiming to sell the sculpture for as much
[1:06] Speaker 2: as three million dollars to collectors. It was a masterpiece,
[1:11] Speaker 2: but to us prosecutors who'd been tracking at sale, it
[1:14] Speaker 2: was something else. Evidence.
[1:18] Speaker 1: What was really significant about it from a legal perspective
[1:22] Speaker 1: was no one had seen this object in a long time.
[1:27] Speaker 1: It had last been published in nineteen seventy five. There
[1:31] Speaker 1: was no record of where it was before that.
[1:33] Speaker 2: For decades, the Duryodanna had seemingly vanished before resurfacing on
[1:39] Speaker 2: the other side of the world. Records showed that it
[1:42] Speaker 2: was first sold in nineteen seventy five in London. Documents
[1:47] Speaker 2: tracking its chain of custody beyond that were scant, but
[1:51] Speaker 2: federal investigators who were looking into the statue had one
[1:54] Speaker 2: clue they couldn't ignore.
[1:56] Speaker 1: When this piece arrived in New York City in twenty
[2:01] Speaker 1: ten for sale by Sotheby's, it had no feet. Its
[2:06] Speaker 1: feet had been broken off with the ankles, and through
[2:10] Speaker 1: kind of a coincidence, feet which matched it had been
[2:14] Speaker 1: discovered at a temple site in Cambodia.
[2:17] Speaker 2: Investigators believed that the Deridana had been stolen, ripped from
[2:21] Speaker 2: an ancient site in Cambodia and working its way through
[2:24] Speaker 2: the most exclusive tiers of the fine art world. On
[2:27] Speaker 2: the day the statue was about to go under the hammer,
[2:30] Speaker 2: Southeby's unexpectedly pulled it from sale after federal agents warned
[2:34] Speaker 2: the auction house, the item could be stolen property. Meanwhile,
[2:39] Speaker 2: authorities dug deeper into their case trying to prove it.
[2:42] Speaker 1: So the Department of Justice went into this case with
[2:46] Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of where this thing had come from,
[2:49] Speaker 1: but not who had stolen it.
[2:51] Speaker 2: Or with finding answers to those questions. Would send investigators
[2:55] Speaker 2: on a far reaching hunt that lasted for more than
[2:58] Speaker 2: a decade. Search has consequences for some of the world's
[3:02] Speaker 2: wealthiest museums and collectors, with implications for a country whose
[3:06] Speaker 2: art had been used to prop up a multimillion dollar industry.
[3:11] Speaker 1: When federal prosecutors began working on this, they were of
[3:14] Speaker 1: the view that they were looking at a long term
[3:16] Speaker 1: criminal conspiracy which stretched from the killing fields of Cambodia
[3:22] Speaker 1: all the way to the Upper East Side of Manhattan.
[3:30] Speaker 2: This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha.
[3:34] Speaker 2: Every week we take you inside some of the world's
[3:36] Speaker 2: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and
[3:40] Speaker 2: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today, on the show,
[3:44] Speaker 2: how Cambodia's Stolen Gods got scattered around the world, and
[3:49] Speaker 2: the unlikely investigation that's helping to bring them home were
[4:00] Speaker 2: roughly five hundred years. Beginning in the ninth century, Cambodia
[4:04] Speaker 2: sat at the heart of the Khmer Empire, one of
[4:06] Speaker 2: the most powerful civilizations of the pre modern world. Its
[4:11] Speaker 2: rulers built monumental temples like Uncle Wad and filled them
[4:15] Speaker 2: with grand sculptures in stone and bronze. But by the
[4:19] Speaker 2: end of Cambodia's Civil war in nineteen ninety eight, many
[4:22] Speaker 2: of those treasures were gone, looted during three decades of
[4:26] Speaker 2: conflict and upheaval, and the country itself was in shambles.
[4:30] Speaker 2: Roughly two million Cambodians, a quarter of the population, died
[4:35] Speaker 2: in the few years that the Khmer Rouge was in
[4:36] Speaker 2: power in the late nineteen seventies. They were then ousted
[4:40] Speaker 2: by Vietnamese forces, but fighting between insurgent groups continued for
[4:44] Speaker 2: another twenty years.
[4:47] Speaker 1: The Cambodian Civil War went on very violently, very viciously,
[4:52] Speaker 1: all the way to nineteen ninety eight. And wars run
[4:56] Speaker 1: on bullets, They ran on fuel, but they really run
[4:59] Speaker 1: on money. You can't fight a war without money.
[5:02] Speaker 2: Matthew Campbell is the author of The Man Who Stole
[5:05] Speaker 2: the Gods, a true story of war obsession, and a
[5:08] Speaker 2: global art conspiracy.
[5:10] Speaker 1: And in Cambodia, one of the ways to fund yourself
[5:14] Speaker 1: is to steal and sell ancient artworks, so all sides
[5:18] Speaker 1: in the civil war were engaged in this. There were
[5:21] Speaker 1: also just opportunistic thieves taking advantage of chaos who were
[5:26] Speaker 1: not themselves competence in the war.
[5:28] Speaker 2: And somewhere amid that chaos, the Deradanna disappeared from Cambodia.
[5:34] Speaker 2: Decades later, when Sotherby's trying to auction the statue in
[5:37] Speaker 2: New York, the Cambodian government rang the alarm. It asked
[5:41] Speaker 2: the US for help to recover it, but first prosecutors
[5:45] Speaker 2: had to prove it had been stolen.
[5:48] Speaker 1: One of the critical components is you need to be
[5:51] Speaker 1: able to show that looting or stealing this object was
[5:55] Speaker 1: illegal in the country where it came from at the
[5:58] Speaker 1: time it occurred, addition to national laws in the US
[6:02] Speaker 1: and elsewhere. There is a treaty under the aegis of UNESCO,
[6:07] Speaker 1: the United Nations Cultural Heritage Agency, which governs or attempts
[6:12] Speaker 1: to govern the movement of what they call cultural property,
[6:15] Speaker 1: which is basically art and artifacts around the world, and
[6:19] Speaker 1: the UNESCO treaty is complicated but generally, in for example,
[6:24] Speaker 1: the world of big museums, there's a cutoff in nineteen seventy,
[6:28] Speaker 1: So if you can show that an object left its
[6:31] Speaker 1: country of origin before nineteen seventy, it's generally considered fairly
[6:36] Speaker 1: safe to acquire.
[6:38] Speaker 2: In the case of the Deer Donna, the where was
[6:41] Speaker 2: clear enough, proving the when would be harder. At the time,
[6:45] Speaker 2: Southeby's was confident that Deerdanna was out of Cambodia before
[6:49] Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy cutoff.
[6:50] Speaker 1: There was a pretty strong impression by the people at
[6:54] Speaker 1: Sotheby's that it had been in the possession pre nineteen
[6:57] Speaker 1: seventy five of a very prominent art dealer, a British
[7:00] Speaker 1: man named Douglas Latchford, and actually, in Sotheby's internal deliberations
[7:06] Speaker 1: before it agreed to sell this thing, they had reached
[7:09] Speaker 1: out to Latchford. He had initially said yes, I did
[7:11] Speaker 1: have it. Then he changed history and said, actually I didn't.
[7:15] Speaker 1: So the whereabouts of this thing were kind of a mystery.
[7:18] Speaker 1: This is an enormous object. It weighs hundreds and hundreds
[7:21] Speaker 1: of pounds. It had obviously been removed somewhat violently from
[7:26] Speaker 1: the place where it came from who took it out?
[7:30] Speaker 1: How did they get it to the border.
[7:33] Speaker 2: To unravel that mystery, authorities needed someone on the ground
[7:37] Speaker 2: in Cambodia.
[7:39] Speaker 3: What happened in twenty twelve. I was sitting in my
[7:41] Speaker 3: office in panom Pen. I was scrolling through the Internet
[7:46] Speaker 3: and I came across a op ed and it was
[7:49] Speaker 3: about the looting of Cambodio.
[7:52] Speaker 2: That's Bradley Gordon, an American lawyer living in the Cambodian
[7:55] Speaker 2: capital of Panampen. The op ed he came across struck
[7:59] Speaker 2: a chord, so he reached out to the authors.
[8:02] Speaker 3: Shortly afterwards, I found myself getting hired by the Department
[8:05] Speaker 3: of Justice out of New York at the prosecutors there
[8:08] Speaker 3: who were working on the Duriadanna case, and they said, Hey,
[8:12] Speaker 3: you actually could be helpful to us. Maybe go out
[8:15] Speaker 3: and collect some testimonies of villagers and see if you
[8:19] Speaker 3: can find an eyewitness.
[8:21] Speaker 2: At first, Brad thought the assignment would be fairly straightforward,
[8:25] Speaker 2: but in a country still living with the legacy of
[8:28] Speaker 2: war and genocide, finding those answers would prove much harder
[8:32] Speaker 2: than he expected.
[8:34] Speaker 3: We went to the village the first stop, hardly anyone
[8:38] Speaker 3: talked to us. They didn't tell us anything.
[8:40] Speaker 2: But Brad and his team, semi hired from the village,
[8:43] Speaker 2: kept at it. They spent months returning to villages around
[8:47] Speaker 2: cook the temple complex where the Duryadanna was taken, and
[8:51] Speaker 2: after months of interviews, their search led them to a
[8:54] Speaker 2: former child soldier in the Khmer Rouge, one who didn't
[8:58] Speaker 2: just have a lead, but who claimed he had stolen
[9:01] Speaker 2: more than a thousand Cambodian artifacts. His name was de
[9:05] Speaker 2: Duk or Tuktik.
[9:08] Speaker 3: We told him he would not be arrested, that we
[9:12] Speaker 3: would make sure that people he told us about they
[9:15] Speaker 3: were not going to get arrested either. And I think
[9:18] Speaker 3: he really believed in karma. He didn't do this for anything,
[9:23] Speaker 3: but you know, just improving his chances maybe a better
[9:28] Speaker 3: next life. And I think he was very aware of
[9:31] Speaker 3: how wrong it was and what he had done. And
[9:36] Speaker 3: he was a very thoughtful person in many ways and
[9:40] Speaker 3: very reflective, and I think for him, he saw what
[9:44] Speaker 3: an incredible crime this was against the Cambodian people, and
[9:50] Speaker 3: I think he wanted to do whatever he could to
[9:52] Speaker 3: try to make things right.
[9:54] Speaker 2: De Duk told Brad he built a network of hundreds
[9:57] Speaker 2: of looters that targeted ancient sites Cambodia. The artifacts were
[10:02] Speaker 2: then moved through Thailand and into the international art market.
[10:07] Speaker 2: Dedok often works with one particular broker, and he knew
[10:10] Speaker 2: that a large chunk of the works were sold to
[10:13] Speaker 2: one client. Here's Matthew Campbell.
[10:15] Speaker 3: Again.
[10:16] Speaker 1: He understood that there was a Westerner, a man in
[10:20] Speaker 1: Bangkok who took tick referred to as Sia Ford. Sia
[10:24] Speaker 1: is a tie honorific. It means lord or something like that.
[10:27] Speaker 2: Lord Ford was Douglas Latchford, the collector who changed his
[10:31] Speaker 2: story when Sotheby's first asked about the Deerdanna Deduk said
[10:36] Speaker 2: he had been supplying Latchford. That revelation suggested that Latchford's
[10:40] Speaker 2: influence extended all the way from the international art market
[10:44] Speaker 2: down the chain to the people digging artifacts out of
[10:47] Speaker 2: the ground.
[10:48] Speaker 1: Lashford was not himself a luter. We don't have any
[10:50] Speaker 1: evidence of him in a temple ripping things out. He
[10:55] Speaker 1: was a voracious buyer and Brad also learned that Atchford
[11:00] Speaker 1: had sent instructions up the chain. He would tell people
[11:03] Speaker 1: what he wanted, what kind of artworks he was looking for.
[11:07] Speaker 1: He would say he was looking for bronzes in a
[11:09] Speaker 1: certain style or a certain kind of Hindu iconography. That
[11:13] Speaker 1: information would reach looters in the field and they would
[11:16] Speaker 1: go try and get it.
[11:18] Speaker 2: Rad had helped uncover a sprawling trafficking network that looted
[11:22] Speaker 2: Cambodia's ancient sites and fed a global demand for Khmer antiquities.
[11:28] Speaker 1: There were looting crews in the field all over Cambodia
[11:31] Speaker 1: all through the civil war. Actually the most intense phase
[11:34] Speaker 1: of looting was in the mid to late nineteen nineties.
[11:38] Speaker 1: You had these industrial scale raids on certain sites, and
[11:42] Speaker 1: I used the word industrial very deliberately. We're talking construction equipment, dynamite,
[11:47] Speaker 1: occasionally gun battles between rival looting crews who were after
[11:52] Speaker 1: the same stuff. These looting crews would then move artworks
[11:56] Speaker 1: to the Taipe order, where there were brokers who would
[11:59] Speaker 1: get them over the border, and to Bangkok, where Lashford
[12:02] Speaker 1: was waiting. And Lashford was essentially the interface between this
[12:07] Speaker 1: looting supply chain I just described and the international market.
[12:10] Speaker 1: So he had impeccable relationships with big buyers, both privately
[12:15] Speaker 1: and with big museums like the Metropolitan in New York,
[12:19] Speaker 1: and he was a trusted supplier to all these people.
[12:24] Speaker 2: Will Cambodia recover what was lost and what the discovery
[12:28] Speaker 2: means for museums and collectors around the world. That's after
[12:32] Speaker 2: the break. American lawyer Bradley Gordon helped federal prosecutors uncover
[12:46] Speaker 2: a trafficking network that systematically looted Cambodia's ancient temples and
[12:50] Speaker 2: funneled their treasures onto the international art market. Then came
[12:55] Speaker 2: the Reckoning. In twenty nineteen, eight years after prosecutors first
[13:00] Speaker 2: challenge the sale of The Dear Donna at a Southeby's auction,
[13:03] Speaker 2: they indicted the man they believe sat at the center
[13:06] Speaker 2: of that network, British art dealer Douglas Latchford.
[13:10] Speaker 3: As we allege in that indictment, lash Ford lied about
[13:12] Speaker 3: the providence of the Cambodian antiquities he was selling in
[13:16] Speaker 3: order to cover up the fact that they were looted.
[13:19] Speaker 2: These artifacts included the Deer Donna and many other Khmer antiquities,
[13:23] Speaker 2: but the case never reached trial. Latchford died in twenty
[13:27] Speaker 2: twenty at age eighty eight. Here's Bloomberg's Matthew Campbell.
[13:32] Speaker 1: In terms of criminal consequences, there have not been that many. Honestly,
[13:36] Speaker 1: Lashford was charged. Another dealer in New York, Nancy Wiener,
[13:41] Speaker 1: was charged. She ultimately pleaded guilty and did not do
[13:45] Speaker 1: any jail time in exchange for cooperation with law enforcement.
[13:49] Speaker 1: One of the criticisms of these investigations generally is that
[13:52] Speaker 1: they don't involve enough criminal prosecution, that it's mostly about
[13:56] Speaker 1: what they call forfeiture, taking objects rather than trying to
[13:59] Speaker 1: put people in jail. But nonetheless they have changed the incentives.
[14:04] Speaker 1: They have succeeded in significantly reducing the demand for works
[14:09] Speaker 1: like this.
[14:10] Speaker 2: As for the Diordanna, Sotheby's settled its case with the
[14:13] Speaker 2: US and agreed to send back the statue to Cambodia.
[14:17] Speaker 1: I am much oh no to represent the Kingdom of Cambodia.
[14:21] Speaker 2: Here's Cambodian Deputy Prime Minister Sook on receiving the statue
[14:25] Speaker 2: at a press conference in twenty fourteen to.
[14:27] Speaker 3: RESI and bring the stitut oh Danna back to our
[14:34] Speaker 3: homeland where he belonged.
[14:38] Speaker 2: But that was over a decade ago, and the Deiodanna
[14:41] Speaker 2: is just one of thousands of artifacts believed to have
[14:44] Speaker 2: been stolen. Many remain scattered across museums, auction houses and
[14:49] Speaker 2: private collections around the world.
[14:51] Speaker 1: It's very hard to value them because, of course, the
[14:53] Speaker 1: price of an artwork or of any asset is what
[14:55] Speaker 1: someone will pay. There's no market to market here. But
[15:00] Speaker 1: we can say with confidence that certainly by the late
[15:03] Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands, the best pieces were selling for
[15:07] Speaker 1: seven figure prices, sometimes five or six million dollars each.
[15:12] Speaker 1: So besides, the whole market would be hundreds of millions.
[15:15] Speaker 1: You know, nothing like the market foresay modern paintings or
[15:20] Speaker 1: old masters, but a significant part of the art world.
[15:23] Speaker 1: We know that one Silicon Valley billionaire, Jim Clark, co
[15:26] Speaker 1: founder of Netscape, he spent about thirty five million dollars
[15:29] Speaker 1: on these pieces.
[15:31] Speaker 2: After the Giordonna case exposed how that trade worked, a
[15:35] Speaker 2: new challenge emerged, figuring out where all the looted objects
[15:39] Speaker 2: ended up. Bradley Gordon is doing that work to this day.
[15:43] Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, the Cambodian government appointed him to lead
[15:46] Speaker 2: a restitution team tasked with tracking down the artifacts.
[15:50] Speaker 3: We're doing a lot of work, for example at Top
[15:52] Speaker 3: Prom which is a very famous temple at Encore, the
[15:56] Speaker 3: one that was in Angelina Jolie's movie Tomb raider.
[16:00] Speaker 2: Brad and his team have been interviewing experts, guards, villagers,
[16:04] Speaker 2: and former looters for years. They've compiled the database with
[16:08] Speaker 2: more than twenty one hundred objects they believe were likely
[16:11] Speaker 2: looted from Cambodia, many of ties to Douglas Latchford. Some
[16:16] Speaker 2: are currently housed in museums like New York's Metropolitan Museum
[16:19] Speaker 2: of Art in the British Museum in London. Roughly another
[16:23] Speaker 2: thousand or so are believed to be in private collections.
[16:27] Speaker 3: We have quite a few negotiations going on right now
[16:31] Speaker 3: with private collectors around the world, and then we're talking
[16:35] Speaker 3: to more and more museums, and we're finding that many
[16:38] Speaker 3: museums are willing to do the right thing. We do
[16:41] Speaker 3: have a number of museums that are very reluctant.
[16:45] Speaker 2: According to Brad, at least three hundred looted Khmer artifacts
[16:49] Speaker 2: have returned to Cambodia in the past decade as a
[16:52] Speaker 2: result of his team's work and joint efforts with the
[16:54] Speaker 2: US government. The met for example, has returned more than
[16:57] Speaker 2: a dozen pieces to Cambodia. Matt says those returns have
[17:01] Speaker 2: transformed Cambodi's recovery effort from a handful of isolated victories
[17:06] Speaker 2: into one of the most successful repatiation campaigns in the
[17:09] Speaker 2: art world.
[17:10] Speaker 1: Actually, the National Museum in pann Pen is packed to
[17:15] Speaker 1: the gills. There is now very little art from this
[17:19] Speaker 1: part of the world that is changing hands, at least openly.
[17:22] Speaker 1: It would now be very hard, certainly in any public way,
[17:25] Speaker 1: to sell a major piece from Cambodia without a lot
[17:29] Speaker 1: of questions being asked.
[17:31] Speaker 2: The investigation has also reshaped how museums, dealers and collectors
[17:36] Speaker 2: think about provenance and stolen art.
[17:39] Speaker 1: There are people who would basically say museums are by
[17:43] Speaker 1: definition monuments the theft, you know, and colonialism and looting.
[17:48] Speaker 1: I don't totally agree. I think one thing that is
[17:51] Speaker 1: striking is that there appears to be a universal urge
[17:56] Speaker 1: when a country is on the rise to obtain the
[17:59] Speaker 1: treasures of other people. This is why there are Egyptian
[18:03] Speaker 1: obelisks in Rome, you know, and that goes back two
[18:06] Speaker 1: thousand years. The big challenge, honestly, is that this is
[18:10] Speaker 1: still going on. It's happening in lots of other places.
[18:13] Speaker 1: Every time a country falls apart, one of the very
[18:16] Speaker 1: first things that happens is the museums are hit. Archaeological
[18:21] Speaker 1: sites are hit. Historical monuments are hit, often by people
[18:25] Speaker 1: who know what they're doing, who know what to take,
[18:27] Speaker 1: who take the high quality saleable objects. Most recently in
[18:32] Speaker 1: Sudan and Ethiopia and Ukraine, there have been very large
[18:37] Speaker 1: scale thefts and artifacts because there is a market. People
[18:40] Speaker 1: want them and they will pay for them.
[18:43] Speaker 2: For many Cambodians, these aren't simply relics of the past
[18:47] Speaker 2: or works of art, and Brad says that's become evident
[18:50] Speaker 2: to him as some of the pieces return home.
[18:54] Speaker 3: I can see that for many of the Cambodians it's
[18:58] Speaker 3: like a return of a lost one. It's something they
[19:02] Speaker 3: know they've been learning for, they've been thinking about somebody
[19:05] Speaker 3: they lost during the war, and the parents of these
[19:09] Speaker 3: statues to them, they're living and I feel many times
[19:12] Speaker 3: it's like welcoming a family member, a long lost family
[19:16] Speaker 3: member coming home. And I do think it brings back
[19:19] Speaker 3: many many memories of what Kimboddy was like before the
[19:22] Speaker 3: war and what happened during the war. It's unbelievable how
[19:28] Speaker 3: this has touched the hearts of so many people here,
[19:31] Speaker 3: and we can see how much it provides healing for
[19:36] Speaker 3: the nation.
[19:44] Speaker 2: This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanha.
[19:48] Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access
[19:51] Speaker 2: to all of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe today at Bloomberg
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