# How the US Government Plans to Refund $166 Billion in Tariffs

An episode of [Big Take](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1578096201), 30 Apr 2026, 19 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/825d4e29-b616-46f4-afd7-ae2b0013005c/95ec8d94-74b4-4963-b71e-b43c015f2d78/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=8b1dd624-a026-43e9-8b57-ae2b00130066

The US government is required to pay back $166 billion in revenue it collected as part of sweeping global tariffs struck down by the Supreme Court earlier this year. On today’s Big Take podcast, host David Gura talks with Bloomberg economics reporter Laura Curtis and a trade expert in the field about the logistics of that payout, whether any of that money will reach consumers and how political pressure might push some companies to skip a refund altogether. Read more: • Oaktree Capital Accuses BJ’s of Breaching Tariff Refund Deal • In Tariff Refund Process, First Payment Set to Go Out May 11 We have a special Bloomberg subscription offer for podcast listeners at Bloomberg.com/podcastoffer. Hosted by David Gura; Produced by Rachael Lewis-Krisky; Reported by Laura Curtis; Edited by Jeffrey Grocott and Tracey Samuelson. Fact-checking by Eleanor Harrison-Dengate; Engineering by Alex Sugiura. Senior Producer: Naomi Shavin; Deputy Executive Producer: Julia Weaver. Executive Producer: Nicole Beemsterboer. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
[0:09] Speaker 2: After the Supreme Court struck down some of President Trump's tariffs,
[0:12] Speaker 2: there's as much as one hundred and sixty six billion
[0:15] Speaker 2: dollars in tariff refunds up for grabs.
[0:18] Speaker 1: The web portal only launched last week.
[0:21] Speaker 2: On April twentieth, the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection
[0:25] Speaker 2: began to allow importers to submit refund requests to get
[0:28] Speaker 2: money back they paid to the US government when President
[0:31] Speaker 2: Trump's AEPA tariffs were in place. But Bloomberg'slaura Curtis, who
[0:35] Speaker 2: covers the US economy, says paying back those billions is
[0:38] Speaker 2: a huge undertaking.
[0:40] Speaker 1: Some of these importers have thousands of entries. Each entry
[0:43] Speaker 1: is one shipment, right, so think about all of the
[0:46] Speaker 1: entries that are possible. I think there were fifty three
[0:49] Speaker 1: million last year that had AEPA duties apply to them.
[0:53] Speaker 2: And it's also a challenge for the computer systems that
[0:55] Speaker 2: process those refund requests.
[0:57] Speaker 3: It is one of the largest government computer systems that
[1:02] Speaker 3: is in existence and processes billions of dollars in duty.
[1:07] Speaker 2: Cindy Allen runs Trade Force Multiplier, a global trade consultancy service.
[1:12] Speaker 3: As well as hundreds of millions of transactions each year
[1:17] Speaker 3: for importing and exporting.
[1:20] Speaker 2: So there are the logistical hurdles, and then there's another
[1:23] Speaker 2: layer of complication for companies that's more political.
[1:27] Speaker 1: So when Trump was asked on CNBC about if you
[1:30] Speaker 1: would be offended if companies pursued refunds, the question was
[1:35] Speaker 1: posed companies like Apple and Amazon aren't seeking refunds.
[1:40] Speaker 2: If there is a worry about, frankly offending you, would.
[1:45] Speaker 3: You find it offensive for them to try to collective?
[1:48] Speaker 1: I think it's brilliant if they don't do that.
[1:50] Speaker 2: I actually, if they don't do that, they got to
[1:53] Speaker 2: know me very well.
[1:55] Speaker 1: This whole tariff rollout over the last year has been
[1:58] Speaker 1: so chaotic and challenge for the people who are really
[2:01] Speaker 1: trying to comply. I think there's a lot of hoping
[2:04] Speaker 1: for the best but preparing for the worst. And this
[2:06] Speaker 1: is a case where I think there's some caution.
[2:11] Speaker 2: I'm David Gera and this is the big take from
[2:13] Speaker 2: Bloomberg News today on the show, will one hundred and
[2:16] Speaker 2: sixty six billion dollars in tariff refunds actually make its
[2:20] Speaker 2: way back to the companies that paid those tariffs and
[2:23] Speaker 2: to consumers? When you put on tariffs.
[2:29] Speaker 4: Tariffs, So the greatest thing ever invented you I took in.
[2:32] Speaker 1: I took in four hundred and sixty seven billion dollars
[2:37] Speaker 1: from China.
[2:38] Speaker 4: Nobody else took in anything.
[2:41] Speaker 1: When Trump was campaigning, he promised to put the highest
[2:45] Speaker 1: tariffs ever in place, and in order to protect US
[2:48] Speaker 1: businesses and kind of the spur this this manufacturing renaissance.
[2:52] Speaker 2: Again, here's Bloomberg's Lorier Curtis.
[2:54] Speaker 1: It turns out he was quite serious about that. In
[2:58] Speaker 1: a few moments, I will sign a history or executive
[3:00] Speaker 1: order instituting reciprocal tariffs on countries throughout the world. Reciprocal
[3:07] Speaker 1: that means.
[3:08] Speaker 2: President Trump said the tariffs were necessary for national security.
[3:12] Speaker 2: These AEPA tariffs were pretty quickly challenged in several different courts,
[3:16] Speaker 2: and by February the Supreme Court ruled they were illegal.
[3:20] Speaker 1: And so the result of that is the Court of
[3:24] Speaker 1: International Trade has been dealing with the aftermath of, you know,
[3:27] Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to refund this one hundred
[3:29] Speaker 1: and sixty six billion dollars in duties to the US
[3:34] Speaker 1: importers who pay them.
[3:35] Speaker 2: Who is eligible for these refunds, who can apply for
[3:38] Speaker 2: refund and who can't.
[3:39] Speaker 1: Well, when a company or a person imports something from
[3:44] Speaker 1: another country, they have to file forms with Customs Imporder
[3:48] Speaker 1: Protection as the it's called importer of record. And so
[3:52] Speaker 1: that importer of record can be a wholesaler or it
[3:56] Speaker 1: can be you know, somebody on Etsy, but it has
[4:00] Speaker 1: to be that designation, that importer of record according to
[4:05] Speaker 1: Customs or the customs broker who filed on their behalfs.
[4:08] Speaker 2: So I guess, with the exception of the mom and
[4:10] Speaker 2: pop at C seller, we're really talking about companies here
[4:14] Speaker 2: versus individuals.
[4:15] Speaker 4: Correct.
[4:15] Speaker 2: Yes, and that is where this web portal comes in
[4:19] Speaker 2: that CBP has created. It's called CAPE, which is short
[4:23] Speaker 2: for Consolidated Administration and Processing of Entries. It's the site
[4:27] Speaker 2: where you apply for tariff free funds. Can you just
[4:30] Speaker 2: describe what this interface looks like what you have to
[4:34] Speaker 2: do to make an application for one of these refunds. Yes,
[4:36] Speaker 2: it's a spreadsheet, nothing fancier than that. It may not
[4:41] Speaker 2: be fancy, but Laura says that portal was up and
[4:44] Speaker 2: running quickly, a pleasant surprise to many customs experts, like
[4:48] Speaker 2: Cindy Allen, the trade consultancy CEO, who also spent years
[4:52] Speaker 2: working at the CBP overseeing its electronic reporting system called ACE.
[4:58] Speaker 3: I think the process is working really well. I am
[5:01] Speaker 3: shocked and very pleased and really proud of the CBP
[5:05] Speaker 3: team and their ability to roll out a major piece
[5:09] Speaker 3: of functionality in essentially forty five days.
[5:12] Speaker 2: Cindy now advises importers and exporters, brokers and freighters as
[5:17] Speaker 2: they navigate complicated customs regulations, and she's seen a broad
[5:21] Speaker 2: range of clients across industries dealing with these refunds.
[5:25] Speaker 3: The common element here is every important to the United States,
[5:29] Speaker 3: with a few carve outs for automotive and some other
[5:34] Speaker 3: Section two thirty two tariffs, we're subject to IEPA duties.
[5:38] Speaker 3: So almost everyone who's paid IEPA duties has an interest
[5:42] Speaker 3: in filing for refund requests. So it's small and large companies.
[5:48] Speaker 2: Laura, what do we know about what companies or kinds
[5:51] Speaker 2: of companies are applying for these refunds? Is there any
[5:54] Speaker 2: way to kind of categorize that.
[5:55] Speaker 4: I know?
[5:55] Speaker 1: For example, a UPS in their earnings call it discussed
[5:59] Speaker 1: this and they said they processed sixteen million entries that
[6:04] Speaker 1: are related to AIPA duties and as a result of
[6:08] Speaker 1: those sixteen million entries remitted over five billion dollars to
[6:12] Speaker 1: the US Treasury, So that's you know, what they're telling
[6:15] Speaker 1: people that they have coming back now. They've also promised
[6:18] Speaker 1: to pass those refunds straight back to their customers who
[6:23] Speaker 1: paid them, and those those people would be more like
[6:26] Speaker 1: the consumer level, you know, folks who just order something,
[6:30] Speaker 1: you know, one off from abroad. It's also you know,
[6:33] Speaker 1: going to be a complex thing for them to manage.
[6:35] Speaker 2: Have any of those shipping companies talked about how well
[6:39] Speaker 2: positioned they are to actually get this money back to
[6:41] Speaker 2: customer resurce It's still too early for them to have
[6:44] Speaker 2: figured that out.
[6:45] Speaker 1: No, they have not. They have not provided details on
[6:48] Speaker 1: their own version of Cape. They've also said that they
[6:51] Speaker 1: are going to wait to receive their own refunds from
[6:54] Speaker 1: the government, so that's a big caveat.
[6:57] Speaker 4: So yeah, we we.
[6:58] Speaker 1: Don't know exactly who you know, which companies have applied yet,
[7:01] Speaker 1: but we do know which companies have sued.
[7:05] Speaker 2: So these are companies that sued the government to make
[7:07] Speaker 2: sure they'd be eligible to apply for refunds like these
[7:10] Speaker 2: before this whole online portal was launched. Name a few
[7:13] Speaker 2: of those companies.
[7:14] Speaker 1: Well, I think the probably most famous one was Costco,
[7:20] Speaker 1: and that raised the administration's ire a bit. I think
[7:24] Speaker 1: that's part of the reason that people are concerned about,
[7:27] Speaker 1: you know, offending the President by applying for refunds. We
[7:31] Speaker 1: also know that FedEx has sued, but also important to
[7:35] Speaker 1: know that those suits are on hold while this CAPE
[7:38] Speaker 1: process plays out. So actually, in.
[7:41] Speaker 4: A filing that came out earlier.
[7:42] Speaker 1: This week, CBP told the Trade Court that they expect
[7:46] Speaker 1: the first refunds to go out actually on May eleventh,
[7:50] Speaker 1: which is way earlier than anybody expected. So we'll see
[7:54] Speaker 1: whether that happens. And you know how significant that first
[7:58] Speaker 1: tranch is, but it's a good sign.
[8:01] Speaker 2: Customs and Border Patrol provided numbers from the first week
[8:04] Speaker 2: its CAPE system was up and running, and CPP says
[8:08] Speaker 2: in that week it had done a first review of
[8:10] Speaker 2: thirteen point three million import entries, and of those, about
[8:14] Speaker 2: two million had been denied so far. Cindy Allen told
[8:18] Speaker 2: us those rejections are, for the most part, a product
[8:21] Speaker 2: of earlier chaos in the tariff process.
[8:24] Speaker 3: So why are those being rejected. It's not because there
[8:27] Speaker 3: is an error in the system. It's because the entry
[8:31] Speaker 3: information as it was originally transmitted by the customs broker
[8:36] Speaker 3: was not in keeping with the requirements that eventually were established.
[8:42] Speaker 3: For example, if you had an IEPA duty as well
[8:47] Speaker 3: as a two thirty two duty as well as a
[8:50] Speaker 3: three oh one case, there was no instructions on how
[8:54] Speaker 3: to transmit that in what order and how you would
[8:59] Speaker 3: show the duty. So CBP eventually came out with instructions,
[9:05] Speaker 3: and all of the customs brokers followed that. But what
[9:08] Speaker 3: we're finding is a lot of the rejections that are
[9:12] Speaker 3: happening are because those initial entries were not transmitted in
[9:18] Speaker 3: accordance with instructions that were sent out.
[9:21] Speaker 2: Later, and this confusion is par for the course. Laura says,
[9:24] Speaker 2: similar to what businesses and brokers experienced over the last year.
[9:28] Speaker 1: The way that these terraffs were rolled out over the
[9:31] Speaker 1: last year was incredibly chaotic happening. I mean yes, I
[9:36] Speaker 1: mean they in some cases the official paper work conflicted
[9:42] Speaker 1: with what Trump said. That happened many times, and then
[9:47] Speaker 1: even sometimes the customs guidance would conflict with itself, and
[9:52] Speaker 1: so importers really didn't know the best way to categorize things.
[9:56] Speaker 1: They didn't know the best way to stack different types
[9:58] Speaker 1: of tariffs. Things were changing so fast. Sometimes, for example,
[10:03] Speaker 1: they were eligible to pay a lower rate if their
[10:06] Speaker 1: goods were already on the water when the tariffs were announced,
[10:10] Speaker 1: and in other cases they weren't. Sometimes that took a
[10:13] Speaker 1: long time to hash out. And so what we're seeing
[10:15] Speaker 1: I think now with those kicked back entries is the
[10:18] Speaker 1: consequence of that.
[10:20] Speaker 4: In a lot of cases, you.
[10:21] Speaker 1: Know, people like brokers that I talked to you, they
[10:24] Speaker 1: did their best. But I think people did what they
[10:26] Speaker 1: could to get their goods out of port right, and
[10:29] Speaker 1: now they have to have to make some adjustments based
[10:32] Speaker 1: on on updated guidance.
[10:35] Speaker 2: Before this refund portal was announced, judge who's overseeing the
[10:38] Speaker 2: refund process expressed concern in court about importers having to
[10:42] Speaker 2: request refunds. Why, the judge wondered, wouldn't the government just
[10:46] Speaker 2: send the refunds automatically based on existing data. Is there
[10:50] Speaker 2: a way that this could have been done more simply?
[10:52] Speaker 2: What if experts told you just about the way that
[10:54] Speaker 2: this process has been designed and how it's how it's unfolding.
[10:57] Speaker 4: CBP has all the data right there.
[10:59] Speaker 1: They elected the money. The argument is they could easily
[11:02] Speaker 1: have just sent it back to the person who paid it.
[11:05] Speaker 4: Another big surprise for people is.
[11:07] Speaker 1: That between this year and last year when these tariffs started,
[11:11] Speaker 1: is CBP is no longer issuing paper checks now.
[11:14] Speaker 4: It's all direct deposit, which.
[11:17] Speaker 1: Requires a whole other enrollment.
[11:19] Speaker 4: Process within CBP software.
[11:22] Speaker 1: It's also so much money. I mean, can you imagine
[11:24] Speaker 1: sending checks willy nilly or direct deposits like without verifying
[11:28] Speaker 1: where they're going or people move. I think there are
[11:31] Speaker 1: a lot of reasons that it doesn't make sense for
[11:33] Speaker 1: CBP to have just issued the refunds as paid.
[11:39] Speaker 4: They're also doing a.
[11:39] Speaker 1: Fair amount of verification that the duties paid at the
[11:42] Speaker 1: time are correct. Right, this is an opportunity that I
[11:45] Speaker 1: have to make sure that they are not refunding money
[11:48] Speaker 1: that is legitimately owed to them, even though these tariffs
[11:51] Speaker 1: are illegal.
[11:52] Speaker 2: It seems like it's a headache for a lot of
[11:54] Speaker 2: companies to have to go through all of this. Have
[11:56] Speaker 2: you heard that from smaller companies, smaller importers, just about
[11:59] Speaker 2: the work that they have to be put in to
[12:00] Speaker 2: try to get this money back.
[12:02] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a big headache.
[12:03] Speaker 1: The whole thing has been a big headache though, right,
[12:05] Speaker 1: I think the refund process is one that they're kind
[12:08] Speaker 1: of happy to endure, you know, compared to compared to
[12:14] Speaker 1: the headache of the last year. A lot of the
[12:17] Speaker 1: smaller guys will have to deal with more with FedEx
[12:20] Speaker 1: and DHL anyway, because they do handle a lot of
[12:24] Speaker 1: imports for smaller businesses. But yeah, it's it's definitely been
[12:29] Speaker 1: an administrative burden. But I think, you know, the idea
[12:32] Speaker 1: of getting the money back is a nice.
[12:34] Speaker 2: Carrot coming up. How politics is influencing which companies apply
[12:40] Speaker 2: for refunds and what tens of billions of dollars in
[12:42] Speaker 2: potential refunds mean for President Trump. There have been many
[12:56] Speaker 2: moments when the President has talked about the benefits of
[13:00] Speaker 2: the US government taking in all of this money. He's
[13:02] Speaker 2: talked about what he would spend it on, what it
[13:04] Speaker 2: might free up broadly speaking, what plans did the government
[13:07] Speaker 2: have for the money that they brought in through these
[13:09] Speaker 2: AEPA tariffs.
[13:11] Speaker 1: Well, at first, it was all about the revenue, right,
[13:13] Speaker 1: I mean, we had these projections that showed a big
[13:16] Speaker 1: dent in the deficit as a result of the tariffs.
[13:21] Speaker 1: That conversation has waned a little bit. I think, for example,
[13:24] Speaker 1: the expense of the tax overhaul that passed over to
[13:27] Speaker 1: the summer the Iran war. Now, you know, tariffs aren't
[13:32] Speaker 1: really going to put as much of a dent in
[13:34] Speaker 1: those things.
[13:34] Speaker 4: Also because people are having a hard.
[13:38] Speaker 1: Time with cost of living and maybe not wanting to
[13:40] Speaker 1: be reminded of this money that's being taken in at
[13:44] Speaker 1: the border. But I think what I'm hearing more now
[13:48] Speaker 1: is a discussion around tariff's benefit as leverage in trade
[13:52] Speaker 1: talks with other trading partners more than the revenue that
[13:55] Speaker 1: they bring in.
[13:56] Speaker 2: And perhaps a stupid question, but it's not like this
[13:58] Speaker 2: money came in and then sat in escrow. It's not
[14:00] Speaker 2: like there was a pot of money just sitting there
[14:04] Speaker 2: that now the government can pull money out of and
[14:06] Speaker 2: send back to companies and perhaps individuals.
[14:10] Speaker 1: Well, it's not an escrow, but it is in the
[14:12] Speaker 1: Treasury's general account, so it's I mean, it's basically the
[14:16] Speaker 1: checking account of the United States.
[14:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, do you expect that the full one hundred and
[14:20] Speaker 2: sixty billion is going to be refunded? Is there any
[14:23] Speaker 2: uncertainty surrounding that?
[14:25] Speaker 1: Oh, there's a lot of uncertainty around how much will
[14:28] Speaker 1: actually be refunded of that. Some of the ways that
[14:32] Speaker 1: shipping contracts were set up had the importer of record
[14:36] Speaker 1: as like a Chinese freight forwarder, for example, and that's
[14:40] Speaker 1: going to get really hairy because those companies may or
[14:44] Speaker 1: may not have paid the full duty on the full
[14:46] Speaker 1: value of the goods. And so, you know, for importers
[14:50] Speaker 1: who went that route, I think they may not want
[14:53] Speaker 1: to open that can of worms.
[14:55] Speaker 2: Laura, what about those remarks from President Trump suggesting he
[14:58] Speaker 2: would look kindly on compan copanies who choose not to
[15:01] Speaker 2: file for tari free funds.
[15:02] Speaker 1: Importers I've been talking to some are concerned that if
[15:06] Speaker 1: they file for the refunds that they're owed, Trump will
[15:10] Speaker 1: find out and he'll target them as a result. I think,
[15:15] Speaker 1: you know, for the most part, people are filing because
[15:18] Speaker 1: they have a duty to their shareholders or you know,
[15:21] Speaker 1: have planned to go after those refunds. But yeah, it
[15:23] Speaker 1: is quite chilling. I think it's something that will be
[15:26] Speaker 1: interesting to watch.
[15:28] Speaker 2: Laura pointed out that if companies have filed lawsuits seeking
[15:31] Speaker 2: tariff refunds, that would be public information, but Cindy Allen
[15:36] Speaker 2: says applications for tariff refunds are confidential.
[15:40] Speaker 3: Whether the administration is seeking that information from CBP we
[15:44] Speaker 3: don't know, but generally the only way that anyone knows
[15:49] Speaker 3: refunds have been filed is to either self disclose that
[15:54] Speaker 3: or for that information to come from CBP. Large companies
[15:59] Speaker 3: are really sent sative to the fact that the administration
[16:02] Speaker 3: has made some concerning statements about following the companies that
[16:07] Speaker 3: are filing for a refund and treating them favorably or
[16:12] Speaker 3: unfavorably if they have. And that's a huge concern for
[16:15] Speaker 3: larger corporations. They want to manage both their brand risk
[16:20] Speaker 3: as well as their company financial risk.
[16:23] Speaker 2: Laura. After the Supreme Court struck down these tariffs, it
[16:25] Speaker 2: was actually different court, the Court of International Trade, that
[16:27] Speaker 2: found the government had to proceed with these refunds. The
[16:31] Speaker 2: Trump administration, as I understand it, can't appeal that decision,
[16:34] Speaker 2: but somewhat surprisingly, at least to me, it hasn't done that.
[16:37] Speaker 1: Why is that the case, Well, I do not know
[16:39] Speaker 1: why they have not appealed it. You know, I've talked
[16:42] Speaker 1: to folks who think maybe that would be not a
[16:46] Speaker 1: very politically advantageous thing to do at this moment in time,
[16:50] Speaker 1: And I've talked to plenty of people who are pretty
[16:52] Speaker 1: convinced that he still has time to appeal it and
[16:56] Speaker 1: will and that, gosh, that'll be interesting if some of
[16:59] Speaker 1: the refunds have already gone out.
[17:03] Speaker 2: It gets to a question I have just about the
[17:05] Speaker 2: psychology of these companies visa e. Tariffs at this moment.
[17:09] Speaker 2: How much are companies in light of what they've been
[17:11] Speaker 2: through here with tariffs put on and taken off, increased
[17:15] Speaker 2: and reduced now watching this refund process unfold, maybe wondering
[17:18] Speaker 2: if the government is going to appeal, if new tariffs
[17:21] Speaker 2: are going to replace old ones, how are companies dealing
[17:24] Speaker 2: with kind of broader ambiguity surrounding yes, the tariff's policy,
[17:28] Speaker 2: but also now this new ambiguity around the refund policy.
[17:31] Speaker 1: Well, I think companies are They're just trying to be
[17:35] Speaker 1: a business as usual as much as they can, and
[17:37] Speaker 1: I think uncertainty has become a little bit more usual
[17:42] Speaker 1: in the last year. The current set of tariffs under
[17:46] Speaker 1: Section one two two is a ten percent levy across
[17:49] Speaker 1: the board, and it expires in July. So I should
[17:53] Speaker 1: say Section one two two is the sort of stop gap.
[17:56] Speaker 4: To replace AIBA.
[17:57] Speaker 1: There are other tariffs that remain in place and have
[18:01] Speaker 1: not been disrupted, but the administration has pledged to find
[18:07] Speaker 1: the alternate ways of raising this revenue. I think companies
[18:10] Speaker 1: are just moving forward under the assumption that tariffs are
[18:14] Speaker 1: here to stay.
[18:20] Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura.
[18:23] Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access
[18:25] Speaker 2: to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg
[18:28] Speaker 2: dot com slash podcast offer. If you like this episode,
[18:31] Speaker 2: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever
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[18:36] Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

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