# China Is Recruiting US Citizens to Work for Its Government

An episode of [Big Take](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1578096201), 29 May 2026, 17 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/825d4e29-b616-46f4-afd7-ae2b0013005c/d48e3747-0c05-4fdb-b106-b459013fc6b5/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=8b1dd624-a026-43e9-8b57-ae2b00130066

The mayor of an affluent suburb of Los Angeles pleaded guilty to acting as an agent of the Chinese government last month. And while cable networks across the US had a field day with the story, Bloomberg’s Drake Bennett and Jordan Robertson have been reporting on cases like this one for years. The two co-hosted the podcast series, The Sixth Bureau, which detailed the inner workings of one of the most powerful and mysterious spy agencies in the world, China’s Ministry of State Security. On today’s Big Take podcast, Drake and Jordan walk host David Gura through what we know about Wang’s case and what it tells us about the extent of Chinese propaganda and espionage in the United States amid ongoing tensions between the world’s two superpowers. Further listening: http://swap.fm/l/9guIFZxhu17KqTWLxBFh Read more: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/the-sixth-bureau/ We have a special Bloomberg subscription offer for podcast listeners at Bloomberg.com/podcastoffer. Hosted by David Gura; Produced by Julia Press and Victor Yvellez; Reported by Drake Bennett and Jordan Robertson; Edited by Nicole Beemsterboer Fact-checking by Laura Newcombe; Engineering by Alex Sugiura. Senior Producer: Naomi Shavin; Deputy Executive Producer: Julia Weaver. Executive Producer: Nicole Beemsterboer. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
[0:08] Speaker 2: Growing national security concerns after a Democratic mayor in California
[0:13] Speaker 2: admitted to secretly working for China. The former mayor of Arcadia, California,
[0:18] Speaker 2: a city just outside Los Angeles, pleaded guilty in federal
[0:21] Speaker 2: court to acting as an illegal agent of a foreign government.
[0:25] Speaker 2: Federal investigators say, instead of acting in the best interests
[0:27] Speaker 2: of the people who elected her Arcadia mayor, Eileen Wang
[0:31] Speaker 2: acted in the interests of the Chinese Communist Party. It's
[0:34] Speaker 2: not entirely clear why Eileen Wang conducted these activities. This
[0:39] Speaker 2: is essentially all in the same day. She's accused, she's
[0:42] Speaker 2: charge of being an agent. She's already agreed to plead
[0:44] Speaker 2: guilty to it. It got a lot of attention in
[0:47] Speaker 2: the US. The court documents were unsealed just as President
[0:51] Speaker 2: Donald Trump was preparing to leave for China for a
[0:53] Speaker 2: summit with China's president sheishin Ping, and it got our
[0:56] Speaker 2: attention here at Bloomberg, in part because two of our
[0:59] Speaker 2: reporters spent the better part of last year working on
[1:02] Speaker 2: a major project related to Chinese espionage in the US,
[1:06] Speaker 2: called the Sixth Bureau.
[1:07] Speaker 1: I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt,
[1:11] Speaker 1: no question of his life, and that's a unicorn. This
[1:16] Speaker 1: whole investigation in case seemed like it was out of
[1:18] Speaker 1: a movie.
[1:18] Speaker 3: At times, it was very clear to.
[1:20] Speaker 1: Me that we were making history.
[1:22] Speaker 2: Drake Bennett, a senior reporter for Bloomberg, and Jordan Robertson,
[1:25] Speaker 2: a senior cybersecurity reporter here, co hosted the series as
[1:29] Speaker 2: part of their reporting on the case, which means they're
[1:31] Speaker 2: just about the perfect people to talk to about the
[1:34] Speaker 2: case of Eileen Wang.
[1:35] Speaker 3: I think one way in which this is indicative and
[1:37] Speaker 3: interesting is that it happens at this very low level
[1:41] Speaker 3: of American government.
[1:42] Speaker 1: The value of Eileen Wang is not necessarily these propaganda
[1:46] Speaker 1: articles she posted. But really it's a long game. It's
[1:49] Speaker 1: a bet you know that this person will be of
[1:52] Speaker 1: use to us.
[1:57] Speaker 2: I'm David Gerret, and this is the big take from
[1:59] Speaker 2: Bloomberg New Today. On the show, a mayor of an
[2:02] Speaker 2: American city pleted guilty to being a Chinese agent. What
[2:05] Speaker 2: the case tells us about the extent of Chinese propaganda
[2:08] Speaker 2: and espionage in the United States amid ongoing tensions between
[2:12] Speaker 2: the world's two superpowers. Drake and Jordan. From where I sit,
[2:19] Speaker 2: this is a pretty extraordinary story. You have Eileen Wang,
[2:22] Speaker 2: the mayor of this suburb outside of Los Angeles. She's
[2:25] Speaker 2: pleaded guilty to being an agent for China and according
[2:28] Speaker 2: to the Department of Justice, she quote secretly served the
[2:30] Speaker 2: interests of the Chinese government. What does that mean exactly?
[2:35] Speaker 3: She was essentially helping to spread pro Chinese propaganda. Before
[2:39] Speaker 3: she ran Profice, she ran this news site and she
[2:41] Speaker 3: would post these articles at the direction of officials from
[2:45] Speaker 3: the People's Republic of China about issues like trying to
[2:48] Speaker 3: rebut accusations of genocide, enforced labor, and shinjan things like that.
[2:53] Speaker 2: You've looked through the documents. How did prosecutors come to
[2:56] Speaker 2: know all this? Charge you with us?
[2:58] Speaker 3: They got access to Weich Yet in cryptocommunications between these
[3:02] Speaker 3: officials and Eileen Wang, where I mean, it's actually kind
[3:06] Speaker 3: of funny. They basically are like, could you please post this?
[3:09] Speaker 3: And then she posts it and she you know, then
[3:11] Speaker 3: there's sort of another follow up that's like, thank you
[3:13] Speaker 3: guys so much. It was hurt and some other people.
[3:15] Speaker 3: They did it very promptly. They got pats on the
[3:18] Speaker 3: back for it. There are other ones. There was another
[3:20] Speaker 3: one that I, as a content creator, like particularly sympathized with,
[3:23] Speaker 3: where she's she sends this sort of like traffic report
[3:26] Speaker 3: to the official. It's like, we got fifteen thousand hits
[3:28] Speaker 3: and he's like great. So it's that kind of back
[3:31] Speaker 3: and forth.
[3:32] Speaker 2: Jordan, let me stick with these documents, and as you
[3:34] Speaker 2: read through them, did anything stand out to you or
[3:36] Speaker 2: surprise you about what they were able to discover?
[3:38] Speaker 3: Well?
[3:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, something that Drake and I
[3:40] Speaker 1: are kind of often looking for in these stories are
[3:42] Speaker 1: just kind of the humanizing elements of these cases. And
[3:46] Speaker 1: you know, I can kind of take people from caricature
[3:48] Speaker 1: to a real person. And in these documents, you know
[3:52] Speaker 1: what you'll see is as she was posting these news
[3:55] Speaker 1: articles on her very very small website before she was
[3:57] Speaker 1: intellected official, she would also get it's back. So her
[4:01] Speaker 1: kind of Chinese handler would send her a document say
[4:04] Speaker 1: post this, she'd post it. She'd respond, she'd say, great,
[4:07] Speaker 1: everybody's really happy, and then she'd hear back, actually, can
[4:10] Speaker 1: you remove the name of this like private company that
[4:12] Speaker 1: we weren't supposed to put in there? And she'll go
[4:14] Speaker 1: do that, and then she'd get another message to say, well, actually,
[4:17] Speaker 1: we put a photo in there that we weren't supposed
[4:19] Speaker 1: to put in. Can you remove that? And so she
[4:21] Speaker 1: was really engaged with her alleged you know, Chinese handlers
[4:25] Speaker 1: in posting this content, in curating the content, in making
[4:28] Speaker 1: sure her handlers were happy with it. So there's really
[4:32] Speaker 1: no way she'd be able to say, well, I didn't
[4:34] Speaker 1: really know what we were doing. Another thing that I
[4:37] Speaker 1: found just really compelling was kind of the scope of
[4:40] Speaker 1: this case. Like you know, we're obviously focused on, you know,
[4:43] Speaker 1: the mayor of Arkadia here, but there are several other
[4:46] Speaker 1: people involved with this and kind of understanding the FBI
[4:50] Speaker 1: investigations of counterintelligence as we do, there's a lot of
[4:54] Speaker 1: investigative effort to get to her this. She's one rung
[4:58] Speaker 1: on this ladder, and the FBI was working their way
[5:00] Speaker 1: through multiple individuals who are kind of doing similar things.
[5:04] Speaker 2: She's not somebody here who is working alone.
[5:06] Speaker 1: So you know, if you're following kind of California politics
[5:09] Speaker 1: and these allegations, you know you'll find stories from you know,
[5:12] Speaker 1: a year or two ago, as this community, the Chinese
[5:15] Speaker 1: community in southern California was you know, pretty unsettled and
[5:19] Speaker 1: disturbed by these allegations that you know, individuals within the community,
[5:24] Speaker 1: and we're talking about people in some cases, you know,
[5:26] Speaker 1: sixty seventy plus years old. They've been you know, kind
[5:28] Speaker 1: of in the community a long time. They're well known,
[5:31] Speaker 1: you know, being accused of acting as agents for the
[5:34] Speaker 1: Chinese government. And in this case, Eileen Wang's co defendant
[5:38] Speaker 1: essentially is a sixty five year old, you know, Chinese
[5:41] Speaker 1: national who was you know, once her fiance was also
[5:45] Speaker 1: her campaign manager and was her partner in this very
[5:48] Speaker 1: small website that where they were posting this pro Chinese propaganda.
[5:53] Speaker 1: If you follow his case back another level, you'll find
[5:56] Speaker 1: another Chinese national, a former PLA official moved to the US,
[6:03] Speaker 1: also got arrested, was trying to bribe an IRS official
[6:06] Speaker 1: into opening an investigation into the Fall and Gong. So
[6:09] Speaker 1: you find like layer upon layer of influence operations, and
[6:13] Speaker 1: you know, that's what we've found generally with these Chinese
[6:16] Speaker 1: influence operations. Like the value of Eileen Wang is not
[6:20] Speaker 1: necessarily these propaganda articles she posted, like i mean, fifteen
[6:23] Speaker 1: thousand people viewed it. That not a lot, but really
[6:26] Speaker 1: it's a long game. It's a bet you know that
[6:28] Speaker 1: this person will be of use to us, and then
[6:31] Speaker 1: she gets elected, you know, and then she's moderately successful
[6:34] Speaker 1: as an elected politician. You know, where could this individual
[6:37] Speaker 1: eventually wind up. Could she become a state legislator, could
[6:40] Speaker 1: she arrive on the national stage. And that's ultimately the
[6:43] Speaker 1: Chinese model, Drake.
[6:44] Speaker 2: You heard Jordan talking about looking through these documents, trying
[6:47] Speaker 2: to humanize these stories makes me wonder about what would
[6:50] Speaker 2: motivate someone like her. What do we know of the
[6:53] Speaker 2: motivations here.
[6:54] Speaker 3: That's one thing that was striking to Jordan and me
[6:57] Speaker 3: in the course of our reporting about incidents like this.
[7:00] Speaker 3: The sums of money are often not particularly large. I mean,
[7:03] Speaker 3: it is basically illegal in China to not help out
[7:07] Speaker 3: the Chinese intelligence services when they come calling. So basically,
[7:11] Speaker 3: even if someone is here in the US, they often
[7:13] Speaker 3: have family back in China, they have friends back in China,
[7:16] Speaker 3: and it's totally commonplace for someone from the government to
[7:19] Speaker 3: show up at the house of one of your relatives
[7:22] Speaker 3: and sort of strongly suggests that you should be more
[7:26] Speaker 3: cooperative with them if you show any reluctance.
[7:28] Speaker 2: How widely does this extend beyond California? I noted here.
[7:32] Speaker 2: Two days after her court documents were made public, of
[7:34] Speaker 2: Chinese America in New York was convicted of working as
[7:36] Speaker 2: a foreign agent. Last year, a judge declared a mistrial
[7:39] Speaker 2: in a case of a former Top eight. To New
[7:41] Speaker 2: York Governors Kathy Hopel Andrew Cuomo, how unique a story
[7:46] Speaker 2: is this one that took place outside Los Angeles? How
[7:48] Speaker 2: widespread is this phenomenon?
[7:49] Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think we exactly know. I think
[7:52] Speaker 3: it would be incorrect to say that a majority or
[7:56] Speaker 3: even a significant minority, even a meaningful minority of Chinese,
[8:00] Speaker 3: these American politicians are working at the cat's paw for
[8:03] Speaker 3: the Chinese government. But it is the case that, as
[8:06] Speaker 3: Jordan mentioned, the Chinese government is interested in developing sources here,
[8:11] Speaker 3: and you know, there's all sorts of sources, and some
[8:14] Speaker 3: of them are people who can kind of help with
[8:17] Speaker 3: this soft power effort of improving China's image or sort
[8:20] Speaker 3: of getting China's message out here in the US. I mean,
[8:23] Speaker 3: I think one way in which this is indicative and
[8:25] Speaker 3: interesting is that it happens at this very low level
[8:28] Speaker 3: of American government. But there's this idea that like, who
[8:32] Speaker 3: knows where this person could end up and if we
[8:34] Speaker 3: make enough of these bets, one of them might pay
[8:36] Speaker 3: off in a really significant way. So I think that's
[8:39] Speaker 3: maybe the way to think about it. There's a real
[8:42] Speaker 3: interest on the part of the Chinese government in developing
[8:44] Speaker 3: a lot of people like this.
[8:47] Speaker 2: After the break, what Drake and Jordan have learned about
[8:50] Speaker 2: the inner workings of China's Ministry of State Security and
[8:53] Speaker 2: how this is all playing out against the backdrop of
[8:56] Speaker 2: President Trump's latest negotiations with China's President Xixinping. Eileen Wang
[9:08] Speaker 2: pleaded guilty to working as an agent of the Chinese government.
[9:11] Speaker 2: She was accused of spreading propaganda. But there are lots
[9:13] Speaker 2: of ways a person can act on behalf of a
[9:15] Speaker 2: foreign government, including something you both have covered for years,
[9:17] Speaker 2: and that's espionage. As we mentioned, you hosted a podcast
[9:20] Speaker 2: series for us on this show called The Sixth Bureau,
[9:23] Speaker 2: and that show followed an officer of the Ministry of
[9:26] Speaker 2: State Security. Jordan, what is the MSS.
[9:29] Speaker 1: So, the Ministry of State Security is China's, you know,
[9:31] Speaker 1: primary intelligence agency. It's also believed to be one of,
[9:35] Speaker 1: if not the largest intelligence agency in the world. So
[9:38] Speaker 1: the MSS doesn't tell the world how many officers it
[9:41] Speaker 1: has and employees, but some estimates run into the high
[9:44] Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands, you know, potentially close to a million people.
[9:47] Speaker 1: And it's kind of all the intelligence, you know, activities
[9:50] Speaker 1: you can imagine rolled into one. So it's been described
[9:52] Speaker 1: as both the combination of the FBI, which does domestic
[9:56] Speaker 1: intelligence and law enforcement, and the CIA, which does you know,
[9:59] Speaker 1: foreign and t dielligence gathering and espionage abroad. It's an
[10:02] Speaker 1: extremely supremely powerful intelligence agency. Like if you think about
[10:07] Speaker 1: one agency doing both domestic and foreign, what that means
[10:11] Speaker 1: is it has a lot of latitude, has a lot
[10:13] Speaker 1: of control, and has a lot of responsibilities from including
[10:17] Speaker 1: trade secret theft, industrial espionage, which is what our podcast
[10:21] Speaker 1: series focused on.
[10:22] Speaker 3: Just to piggyback on that. It's like the CIA and
[10:24] Speaker 3: the FBI combined, and then it has these additional powers,
[10:26] Speaker 3: right partly because China is one party state, it's a
[10:30] Speaker 3: police state, and so the MSS does a lot of
[10:33] Speaker 3: domestic surveillance in a way that it's kind of hard
[10:36] Speaker 3: to imagine in the United States. And then also there
[10:39] Speaker 3: isn't this same distinction on the part of the Chinese government,
[10:43] Speaker 3: on the part of the PRC between government and commercial secrets.
[10:46] Speaker 3: So the MSS as an arm of the Chinese government.
[10:49] Speaker 3: A lot of what it does is it goes out
[10:51] Speaker 3: and tries to take intellectual property from Western tech companies,
[10:55] Speaker 3: Western manufacturing companies and then give it to Chinese companies
[10:58] Speaker 3: to help them catch up or pass their competitors.
[11:01] Speaker 2: Does China admit to having spies in the US? Do
[11:03] Speaker 2: they admit to doing this kind of work around the world.
[11:06] Speaker 1: China acknowledges a lot about what it's doing. In the
[11:09] Speaker 1: case that we wrote about, China itself did not come
[11:13] Speaker 1: out and acknowledge that this person was an MSS officer
[11:17] Speaker 1: that he, you know, was working on behalf of the
[11:19] Speaker 1: Chinese government to steal trade secrets, but his defense attorneys did,
[11:23] Speaker 1: and in court the prosecution stated that they believe the
[11:27] Speaker 1: Chinese government was paying for shoot Y in June, the
[11:30] Speaker 1: MSS officer that we did the podcast on, but they
[11:33] Speaker 1: were paying for his defense. So China has long denied that,
[11:38] Speaker 1: you know, it steals trade secrets. You know, that has
[11:40] Speaker 1: been the government's official position at this point. We've seen,
[11:44] Speaker 1: you know, close to twenty years of prosecutions inside the
[11:47] Speaker 1: United States of Chinese efforts to steal trade secrets. You know,
[11:50] Speaker 1: the preponderance of evidence, you know shows, especially in the
[11:53] Speaker 1: case that we wrote about, is that the MSS part
[11:56] Speaker 1: of its job is to steal industrial trade secrets, primarily
[11:59] Speaker 1: from the UN, US and European companies. But really it's
[12:02] Speaker 1: a global organization, you know, And as we learned in
[12:05] Speaker 1: the case we did the series about, there's a merging
[12:08] Speaker 1: within China of the intelligence apparatus and you know, the
[12:12] Speaker 1: state owned enterprise apparatus, and they feed each other. So
[12:16] Speaker 1: areas technical areas where organizations within China maybe having engineering
[12:21] Speaker 1: difficulties and roadblocks to surpass. The intelligence agency is you know,
[12:27] Speaker 1: is tasked in many cases with going out and getting
[12:29] Speaker 1: that information.
[12:30] Speaker 3: Spying on another country and not admitting you're doing it
[12:33] Speaker 3: is not just something that China does. I mean, it's
[12:36] Speaker 3: it's sort of the rules of the game. I'm and so,
[12:38] Speaker 3: I mean, I think the thing that China does that's distinctive,
[12:42] Speaker 3: I think is expanding this into the commercial sphere. So,
[12:45] Speaker 3: I mean, everyone spies on everybody, nobody really admits that
[12:48] Speaker 3: they're doing it. China does it in a particular way.
[12:52] Speaker 2: Some of you feature on the podcast series is James
[12:55] Speaker 2: Olsen a spy in the CAA for for more than
[12:56] Speaker 2: thirty years, and he tells you this incredible thing which
[12:58] Speaker 2: I haven't been able to shake.
[13:00] Speaker 1: I think of the American people truly understood the scope
[13:03] Speaker 1: of Chinese espionage inside the United States right now, they'd
[13:07] Speaker 1: be shocked, they'd be outraged.
[13:09] Speaker 2: Looking at the case of Aileen Wang, the California mayor.
[13:12] Speaker 2: Is this what also is talking about when he says
[13:14] Speaker 2: Americans would be shocked by the scope of Chinese espionage
[13:17] Speaker 2: in the US.
[13:17] Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that is an interesting example and a
[13:20] Speaker 3: good example of how sort of widespread and diverse the
[13:24] Speaker 3: effort is. So on the one hand, you have these
[13:27] Speaker 3: efforts to try to steal advanced technology secrets from Silicon
[13:31] Speaker 3: Valley companies or major multinational manufacturers. On the other you
[13:34] Speaker 3: have politicians in the local level who are basically being
[13:39] Speaker 3: asked to, in some small way, help amplify and shape
[13:44] Speaker 3: the public perception of China in this country. And so
[13:47] Speaker 3: I think what some of the folks we talked to
[13:49] Speaker 3: would say is that there's very much this all of
[13:51] Speaker 3: the above approach that you see.
[13:53] Speaker 2: Short of these documents in the Alien Way case were
[13:56] Speaker 2: unsealed right before the President took his trip to Beijing,
[14:00] Speaker 2: and I'm curious how this plays out against that backdrop
[14:03] Speaker 2: of an increasingly frosty or fraught relationship between the US
[14:07] Speaker 2: and China.
[14:08] Speaker 1: You know, the Trump administration both times has had you know,
[14:11] Speaker 1: a very contentious relationship with China that's eb been flowed
[14:14] Speaker 1: a little bit depending on you know, kind of the day.
[14:18] Speaker 1: But you know, in this case, I mean, this is
[14:19] Speaker 1: a reminder that like, this is still a really fraught issue,
[14:23] Speaker 1: this idea of Chinese espionage. It's not like, you know,
[14:26] Speaker 1: you capture one person and it goes away. Like the
[14:29] Speaker 1: model that's emerged through these prosecutions over the last couple
[14:33] Speaker 1: of decades is one of lots and lots of little
[14:36] Speaker 1: bets everywhere. You know many most of them might not
[14:39] Speaker 1: be successful, but if you make enough little bets, one
[14:42] Speaker 1: of them will pay off. That's all you really need.
[14:44] Speaker 1: And the Eileen Wang case is a great example of that,
[14:47] Speaker 1: which you know, the communications show you know that this
[14:50] Speaker 1: was this was kind of like a surprise to her handlers, like, wow,
[14:54] Speaker 1: she really did it, and now she's kind of working
[14:56] Speaker 1: for us, and let's keep this going and who knows
[14:58] Speaker 1: where this could go. That's the with any of these operations.
[15:01] Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we got a sense through you know,
[15:03] Speaker 1: Shuey in June's you know kind of mo and you know,
[15:07] Speaker 1: he was doing something kind of similar, reaching out to
[15:09] Speaker 1: people on LinkedIn and hoping they'd come to China for
[15:11] Speaker 1: a talk and then hoping they'd give more more information later.
[15:14] Speaker 1: And so the fact that these documents were unsealed kind
[15:18] Speaker 1: of on the eve of Trump's trip to China, you know,
[15:21] Speaker 1: I mean, who knows about what the coordination might have been,
[15:24] Speaker 1: but the message clearly is the government telling China, we
[15:27] Speaker 1: see you, we still see you doing all this, and
[15:30] Speaker 1: we're still going to pursue you.
[15:32] Speaker 3: We've basically been following this from the first Trump administration
[15:35] Speaker 3: into the second Trump administration, and you know, there was
[15:39] Speaker 3: this kind of flurry of stuff that came out on
[15:42] Speaker 3: the eve of the summit meeting where you know, this
[15:45] Speaker 3: stuff was unsealed. There was a memo that came out
[15:48] Speaker 3: from the White House about sort of whole scale like
[15:52] Speaker 3: theft of American AI models. But then Trump himself sort
[15:55] Speaker 3: of the way he spoke to she, the way he
[15:57] Speaker 3: talked about it. There was even you know, someone asked
[16:00] Speaker 3: him about theft and he's like, well, you know, we
[16:01] Speaker 3: do what they do it who knows what to do
[16:03] Speaker 3: about it? And so there's a kind of it's kind
[16:05] Speaker 3: of unclear exactly where he stands on this stuff. And
[16:08] Speaker 3: you know, a lot of the emphasis in the meeting
[16:10] Speaker 3: seemed to be like getting these trade deals, getting this
[16:12] Speaker 3: Boeing deal, And in a weird way, it feels like
[16:15] Speaker 3: we're rewinding this story that we've seen where a lot basically,
[16:19] Speaker 3: you know, fifteen years ago, all these multinationals were so
[16:22] Speaker 3: excited to go into China that they're basically putting up
[16:24] Speaker 3: with this stuff, and then there was kind of a
[16:26] Speaker 3: backlash to that where they're like, you know what, actually
[16:28] Speaker 3: this is getting out of hand and now it's like,
[16:31] Speaker 3: let's try to sell them some more Boeing planes. So
[16:33] Speaker 3: it's kind of an interesting moment and it's unclear kind
[16:36] Speaker 3: of where we're headed.
[16:41] Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Ura.
[16:44] Speaker 2: You can find The Sixth Bureau, the podcast series Drake
[16:46] Speaker 2: and Jordan hosted wherever you listen to podcasts. We've also
[16:49] Speaker 2: put a link in our show notes. The Big Take
[16:51] Speaker 2: is hosted by me, Sarah Holder, and Juan ha The
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