# How the NBA is Cashing In on Its Biggest Postseason in Decades

An episode of [Big Take](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1578096201), 18 Jun 2026, 17 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/UVBrz8bN8aM2Xe47PEPu/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/825d4e29-b616-46f4-afd7-ae2b0013005c/ed83a40b-f895-480e-b05e-b46d012b026e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=8b1dd624-a026-43e9-8b57-ae2b00130066

New Yorkers turned out by the thousands on Thursday to celebrate the Knicks’ first NBA Finals victory in 53 years. But Jalen Brunson and co. weren’t the only big winners. On today’s Big Take podcast, Jason Kelly – host of Bloomberg’s The Deal With Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly – and business of sports reporter Randall Williams tell Sarah Holder about the business side of the most-watched NBA finals since 1998, and how the series bolstered the fortunes of everyone from merch sellers and New York bars to, of course, the NBA itself. Read more: NY Knicks Fans Pay $950 to Hold Spots at Free Parade We have a special Bloomberg subscription offer for podcast listeners at Bloomberg.com/podcastoffer. Hosted by Sarah Holder; Produced by Rachael Lewis-Krisky with assistance from Victor Swezey; Reported by Jason Kelly and Randall Williams; Edited by Jeffrey Grocott. Fact-checking by Laura Newcombe and Victor Swezey; Engineering by Emma Munger. Senior Producer: Naomi Shavin; Deputy Executive Producer: Julia Weaver. Executive Producer: Nicole Beemsterboer. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Guys, what an insane
[0:10] Speaker 1: week for the NBA. Thank you both for being here.
[0:14] Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
[0:14] Speaker 3: Best week ever, Best week ever.
[0:19] Speaker 4: THEBA Finals, SI Stats.
[0:22] Speaker 3: I've been waiting for checades, your NBA champions Your New
[0:27] Speaker 3: York City Knicks are making their way through the parade. Rapins.
[0:31] Speaker 3: Oh New York, now you go.
[0:34] Speaker 4: The Knicks hit different in New York. I think you
[0:37] Speaker 4: saw it just as a resident of the city. There
[0:39] Speaker 4: is no team that galvanizes New York and the culture.
[0:43] Speaker 1: Jason Kelly is the host of Bloomberg's The Deal with
[0:46] Speaker 1: Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
[0:48] Speaker 4: You had a team of destiny in the Knicks. Maybe
[0:51] Speaker 4: one of the biggest stars we'll ever see, assuming he
[0:53] Speaker 4: stays healthy in Wembin Yama, a global superstar. It was
[0:56] Speaker 4: everything the NBA wanted and there. It's gonna be hard
[1:00] Speaker 4: to top.
[1:01] Speaker 1: I'd seen New York City erupt with joy after the
[1:04] Speaker 1: New York Knicks beat the San Antonio Spurs to take
[1:07] Speaker 1: the NBA Championship Saturday night after a fifty three year drought.
[1:12] Speaker 4: You know, the ratings showed that, you know, through the
[1:14] Speaker 4: first four games double last year's viewership, the biggest viewership
[1:18] Speaker 4: I think since nineteen ninety eight. I'm hard pressed to
[1:21] Speaker 4: think about the Finals that could have been any better
[1:24] Speaker 4: for business.
[1:25] Speaker 2: The only thing that could have been better for the
[1:26] Speaker 2: NBA is if this series ended at Madison Square Garden
[1:30] Speaker 2: or it ended in seven games.
[1:31] Speaker 1: That's Randall Williams, a co host of Bloomberg's Business of
[1:35] Speaker 1: Sports podcast.
[1:36] Speaker 2: The seven game series is always going to do better. Yeah,
[1:39] Speaker 2: But at the same time, I want to say Game
[1:42] Speaker 2: one in Game two, and all of these games were
[1:44] Speaker 2: probably watched more than Game seven of last year. That
[1:48] Speaker 2: is ridiculous.
[1:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I watched all the games, and I'm
[1:51] Speaker 1: not like a huge basketball one of millions of viewers.
[1:57] Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder. And this is the big take from
[2:00] Speaker 1: Bloomberg News today on the show, Who's making money off
[2:03] Speaker 1: the record breaking NBA Finals and what it all means
[2:07] Speaker 1: for fans, teams, and the league as it considers expansion.
[2:19] Speaker 1: There was a lot of money at play in this series,
[2:21] Speaker 1: as we've already alluded to, starting with ticket prices, especially
[2:25] Speaker 1: for Knicks games. We're talking ten thousand dollars for nosebleeds,
[2:29] Speaker 1: six figures for court side, Timothy Shalomet him sisters. I'm
[2:33] Speaker 1: not going to ask why these tickets are so expensive.
[2:36] Speaker 1: I think that might be a little self evident. But
[2:37] Speaker 1: where is that money going? How much is going to
[2:41] Speaker 1: Jim Dolan and MSG?
[2:44] Speaker 4: Heh, James Dolan what a complicated figure on the New
[2:48] Speaker 4: York scene and across the broader sports team.
[2:52] Speaker 1: MSG, of course is Madison Square Garden. James Dolan controls
[2:56] Speaker 1: Madison Square Gardens Sports Entertainment, which owns the you, and
[3:01] Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden Sports, which owns the next team.
[3:04] Speaker 4: You know a lot of the money's going to MSG,
[3:06] Speaker 4: for sure. You know a lot of money is going
[3:09] Speaker 4: into the pockets of long suffering season ticket holders for
[3:13] Speaker 4: the Knicks.
[3:14] Speaker 3: Or the Spurs.
[3:15] Speaker 4: The Spurs, despite probably being very grumpy about it, made
[3:19] Speaker 4: a lot of money off of New Yorkers who were
[3:21] Speaker 4: trying to buy tickets.
[3:22] Speaker 2: As you saw on the broadcast, there were plenty of
[3:25] Speaker 2: Knicks fans at Game five and Game one and two.
[3:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
[3:29] Speaker 4: And the economics, which I'm sure you've heard about, Sarah,
[3:32] Speaker 4: were such that it was substantially less expensive for people
[3:37] Speaker 4: to buy a plane ticket, get a hotel room, and
[3:39] Speaker 4: still get tickets to a Spurs game than it was
[3:42] Speaker 4: to get into Madison Square Garden. We've talked to the
[3:46] Speaker 4: head of the New York City Economic Development Corporation who
[3:51] Speaker 4: talked about hundreds of millions of dollars probably upwards of
[3:54] Speaker 4: half a billion dollars maybe more, that are marginally going
[3:58] Speaker 4: into the New York City economy. And that's just from
[4:01] Speaker 4: you know, bars who probably made their budget for the
[4:04] Speaker 4: year serving thirsty and excited Knicks fans all across the
[4:09] Speaker 4: five boroughs.
[4:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, any of no where, Yeah, yeah, nowhere. What about
[4:20] Speaker 1: in San Antonio? Was there that level of economic stimulus?
[4:23] Speaker 2: Definitely? I think so too. But they had three games
[4:26] Speaker 2: and New York had two, And so when you think
[4:29] Speaker 2: about that impact, yes, New Yorkers filled up San Antonio's arena,
[4:33] Speaker 2: but at the same time, they were eating at these restaurants,
[4:35] Speaker 2: they were filling up these hotel rooms, they were walking
[4:38] Speaker 2: all around the city spending money, and that means money
[4:41] Speaker 2: for San Antonio. Now, if you ask San Antonio what
[4:43] Speaker 2: was the best case scenario, of course they would have
[4:45] Speaker 2: wanted a game seven, not just so that they had
[4:48] Speaker 2: an opportunity to win, because it would have brought more
[4:50] Speaker 2: money to the economy. James Dolan will tell you, I
[4:53] Speaker 2: just want to win a championship. But in all reality
[4:55] Speaker 2: here in New York, a Game six in which the
[4:57] Speaker 2: Knicks would have won in six would been insane in
[5:01] Speaker 2: the city. And that's what I was rooting for selfishly,
[5:03] Speaker 2: because I think that would have been the best story. However,
[5:06] Speaker 2: the Knick's getting revenge on the Spurs winning in five
[5:09] Speaker 2: games the same way that the Spurs beat them in
[5:11] Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, that's not so bad either.
[5:15] Speaker 1: So in terms of how the players end up profiting,
[5:18] Speaker 1: Sportco reported that teams who made the playoffs will get
[5:21] Speaker 1: roughly thirty six million dollars in bonuses total. The Knicks
[5:25] Speaker 1: players will split roughly nine million of that for coming
[5:27] Speaker 1: in first, and the Spurs will split about four million.
[5:31] Speaker 1: Rindall walk us through how the teams make money here.
[5:35] Speaker 2: The more games that a team has, the more money
[5:37] Speaker 2: that a team will make. Unlike the NFL, where the
[5:40] Speaker 2: Super Bowl is hosted by the NFL, so for example,
[5:44] Speaker 2: San Francisco, they've reached a deal to host Super Bowl sixty.
[5:47] Speaker 2: They hosted it, but they don't see any money from it.
[5:50] Speaker 2: All that money goes straight to the NFL and the
[5:52] Speaker 2: NBA Finals. The more games you host, the more money
[5:55] Speaker 2: you make. So that's why my argument is that Game
[5:57] Speaker 2: six at MSG would have been insane, but it didn't happen, So.
[6:00] Speaker 1: How meaningful is that miss revenue for the NBA and
[6:03] Speaker 1: for television partners.
[6:05] Speaker 2: If you had television partners are fine because the games
[6:07] Speaker 2: are very, very good. There were no blowouts. So if
[6:10] Speaker 2: you're a viewer and you were watching, and I was
[6:12] Speaker 2: at Game four in which was the largest comeback in
[6:15] Speaker 2: NBA Finals history, there was reason to turn off the game,
[6:19] Speaker 2: and then there wasn't.
[6:20] Speaker 1: And fans and bandwagoners alike kept watching. Twenty four and
[6:25] Speaker 1: a half million people tuned into Game five. By around
[6:28] Speaker 1: eleven fifteen, right as the Knicks were about to clinch
[6:30] Speaker 1: their playoff win, that number surge to thirty three million.
[6:35] Speaker 1: To find a series with more viewers, you'd have to
[6:37] Speaker 1: go back to when Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls beat the
[6:40] Speaker 1: Utah Jazz for its second three p in nineteen ninety eight,
[6:44] Speaker 1: Jordan's last season with coach Phil Jackson. A few years ago,
[6:48] Speaker 1: the NBA signed this eleven year media rights deal with Disney, Amazon,
[6:52] Speaker 1: and NBC's parent company, Comcast. It's expected to generate seventy
[6:56] Speaker 1: six billion dollars in fees for the league. What is
[6:59] Speaker 1: that meant for viewership? Does that have anything to do
[7:02] Speaker 1: with the record viewership we were seeing this year or
[7:04] Speaker 1: is it? I mean just amazing basketball.
[7:06] Speaker 4: The NBA has a knack for incredible storylines. You were
[7:11] Speaker 4: introduced this season to these new superstars in a.
[7:16] Speaker 3: Really meaningful way.
[7:17] Speaker 4: And you know, one of the really interesting things going forward,
[7:19] Speaker 4: and we've talked about this a little bit, is the
[7:21] Speaker 4: Wemby storyline.
[7:23] Speaker 3: He's a little bit of a villain.
[7:24] Speaker 4: Now that's actually kind of a great storyline for the NBA.
[7:28] Speaker 4: You have Jalen Brunson, this like ultimate underdog who's been
[7:32] Speaker 4: like doubted at every single level and also has won
[7:35] Speaker 4: a championship at every single level, you know, putting him
[7:38] Speaker 4: in the company of people like Kareem you know, winning
[7:40] Speaker 4: at high school, college, and a professional level. And so
[7:44] Speaker 4: that's good for everybody's business. And so if you're the
[7:48] Speaker 4: media rights holders for the NBA, you're probably I think
[7:52] Speaker 4: right now saying yep, it worth every penny.
[7:55] Speaker 2: There's a lot of conversation about who was watching and
[7:59] Speaker 2: when could you watch? That is still an adjustment for
[8:02] Speaker 2: a lot of fans because there are subscriptions that you need. However,
[8:06] Speaker 2: viewership was high, and so from that aspect, if you're
[8:08] Speaker 2: the league, that's a problem that you can fix over time.
[8:13] Speaker 1: And the NBA also cleaned up on merch the series.
[8:17] Speaker 1: The league said that the twenty twenty six finals overall
[8:20] Speaker 1: set new league records for merchandise sales, doubling the previous
[8:24] Speaker 1: record from twenty twenty and on the big sports retailer Fanatics,
[8:28] Speaker 1: the Knicks said an all time merchandise record in the
[8:31] Speaker 1: twenty four hours after their victory, the most for any
[8:34] Speaker 1: championship team in any sport.
[8:37] Speaker 4: The Knicks because of the fan base that we've been
[8:39] Speaker 4: talking about, it's a national, certainly maybe a global fan base.
[8:43] Speaker 4: You couldn't get a real licensed piece of merchandise anywhere basically.
[8:50] Speaker 4: I mean, like my eight year old daughter was wearing
[8:54] Speaker 4: a go New York, Go New York Nick shirt that
[8:56] Speaker 4: my wife literally had to make her because we couldn't
[8:59] Speaker 4: buy one anywhere.
[9:01] Speaker 2: And one more thing I'd add is that this conversation
[9:03] Speaker 2: really matters to the NBA because of the fact that
[9:06] Speaker 2: months ago there was a debate about who is the
[9:08] Speaker 2: number two league in America, Major League Baseball or the NBA,
[9:12] Speaker 2: and Major League Baseball has been scorching hot. You think
[9:15] Speaker 2: about the World Series two years ago between the Yankees
[9:19] Speaker 2: and the Dodgers. You think about the World Series last
[9:21] Speaker 2: year between the Dodgers and the Blue Jays, just three
[9:25] Speaker 2: titan organizations in which the ratings were crazy across the world.
[9:29] Speaker 2: And now the NBA has the Knicks on a fifty
[9:31] Speaker 2: year drought. You have Wemby, a seven foot four behemoth,
[9:35] Speaker 2: and those two things and underdog and Jalen Brunson versus
[9:39] Speaker 2: the Titan in Wemby, the New York market, number one
[9:42] Speaker 2: media market versus San Antonio, a franchise that has won
[9:45] Speaker 2: many championships. Those things really really matter, and the NBA
[9:49] Speaker 2: won this year.
[9:55] Speaker 1: After the break, Where does the NBA go from here?
[9:58] Speaker 1: Why expansion might or might not be a slam dunk?
[10:12] Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about Jalen Brunson,
[10:15] Speaker 1: NBA Finals MVP captain the Knicks. Famously to nick fans,
[10:19] Speaker 1: at least he signed this team friendly contract in twenty
[10:22] Speaker 1: twenty four. The team would have paid more than one
[10:24] Speaker 1: hundred million dollars extra to keep him if he'd waited
[10:26] Speaker 1: till he was a free agent to re sign. And
[10:29] Speaker 1: those savings have been credited by some with helping the
[10:31] Speaker 1: Knicks build out the team with players that ended up
[10:33] Speaker 1: being so critical to the win in the championship. How
[10:37] Speaker 1: much did it help the Knicks.
[10:39] Speaker 3: You know, for Jalen Brunson.
[10:40] Speaker 4: And this is something that you know, we talk about
[10:43] Speaker 4: a lot on our show, the Deal.
[10:44] Speaker 3: That I host with Alex Rodriguez.
[10:47] Speaker 4: It's one thing to play in New York and to
[10:49] Speaker 4: be a professional athlete, But there's a whole other thing
[10:52] Speaker 4: if you are a professional athlete in New York who
[10:56] Speaker 4: won a championship, and that's Jalen Brunson. Now he has
[10:59] Speaker 4: elevated his brand, he has elevated his business opportunities in
[11:03] Speaker 4: an exponential way that probably will make that you know,
[11:08] Speaker 4: lost quote unquote hundred plus million dollars look like a
[11:12] Speaker 4: very very good investment over the next ten to twenty
[11:15] Speaker 4: years for him.
[11:15] Speaker 2: So the question to me in regards to Jalen Brunson
[11:20] Speaker 2: is not about how much money he will make after
[11:23] Speaker 2: sacrificing one hundred million. He's going to make a ton.
[11:25] Speaker 2: It's about which brands are willing to pay him. What's
[11:28] Speaker 2: interesting about him is that he does not have a
[11:30] Speaker 2: signature shoe with Nike. Does Nike decide to give I
[11:33] Speaker 2: believe he's twenty eight or twenty nine years old. It
[11:35] Speaker 2: takes about eighteen to twenty four months to develop a shoe.
[11:38] Speaker 2: By the time his shoe would come out, he would
[11:40] Speaker 2: be either thirty or thirty one and on the tail
[11:42] Speaker 2: end of his career. Is that a risk that's worth
[11:45] Speaker 2: it to Nike? Now, there are plenty of businesses in
[11:48] Speaker 2: New York that Jalen Brunson could be a part of.
[11:51] Speaker 2: You think of the largest sports sponsors, insurance companies, I mean,
[11:55] Speaker 2: you think of Progressive, you think of State Farm. With
[11:57] Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes, he will have no shortage of options, and
[12:02] Speaker 2: so for him the one hundred million dollars is going
[12:04] Speaker 2: to be worth it, especially if he can do it again.
[12:08] Speaker 1: Well, I want to ask about what's next for the NBA.
[12:11] Speaker 1: The Board of Governors is actively exploring expansion franchises in
[12:15] Speaker 1: Seattle and Las Vegas. What incentive does the league have
[12:19] Speaker 1: in keeping smaller markets engaged versus just like building on
[12:23] Speaker 1: the teams that are already dominant.
[12:25] Speaker 2: Well, I think that the way in which the league
[12:29] Speaker 2: has changed rules around the cap systems so that it
[12:31] Speaker 2: makes it tougher to keep all the players that you draft.
[12:35] Speaker 2: Because of the salary cap, you'll have to pay penalties
[12:37] Speaker 2: if you exceed a certain mark by paying players. With
[12:41] Speaker 2: that in mind, it does two things. It makes it
[12:43] Speaker 2: difficult for teams to keep their core together, and it
[12:46] Speaker 2: also gives smaller market teams who may not draft well
[12:49] Speaker 2: or put teams together, it gives them an opportunity to
[12:51] Speaker 2: sign players. And so if you are one of these
[12:53] Speaker 2: smaller time owners who has not been to the playoffs,
[12:58] Speaker 2: who has not made a championship, but the media rights
[13:00] Speaker 2: deals keeps going up, why would you bother competing into
[13:04] Speaker 2: in this the same way that some of the higher
[13:07] Speaker 2: or bigger market teams can. The MLB is dealing with
[13:11] Speaker 2: this crisis right now where you have teams who are
[13:13] Speaker 2: just okay with not winning because they're making money, and
[13:17] Speaker 2: the NBA is trying to avoid that by incentivising teams
[13:20] Speaker 2: to win. And so you've had, I believe it's eight
[13:22] Speaker 2: different champions in the last eight years. There are some
[13:25] Speaker 2: people who are happy with that, there are some people
[13:26] Speaker 2: who are not. But the reality is it's good for
[13:29] Speaker 2: fan bases. For fan bases to feel like they have
[13:32] Speaker 2: a chance, it will drive people to arenas, and it
[13:34] Speaker 2: will drive people to their screens to watch.
[13:37] Speaker 4: You know, when we talk about expansion, you know, one
[13:39] Speaker 4: of the great potential storylines that comes with expansion is
[13:43] Speaker 4: the return of the SuperSonics to Seattle. They're likely to
[13:46] Speaker 4: get one of the expansion teams. Vegas is likely to
[13:48] Speaker 4: get the other. There is a fan base in Seattle
[13:51] Speaker 4: that is rabbit hungry, ready.
[13:56] Speaker 3: For They are ready.
[13:58] Speaker 4: To Randall's point, if you can build these fan bases
[14:01] Speaker 4: in different markets across the country, that is good for
[14:05] Speaker 4: the game, and that again accrues to the valuations, not
[14:08] Speaker 4: just to the teams, but also to the media deals
[14:10] Speaker 4: going for well, I.
[14:10] Speaker 1: Want to talk about the Knicks valuation because Sportaco had
[14:13] Speaker 1: the Knicks valued at nine point eight billion dollars headed
[14:15] Speaker 1: into the Eastern Conference Finals. Does this championship change.
[14:19] Speaker 2: That championships mean a lot to teams. They don't add
[14:23] Speaker 2: a lot of incremental value to a valuation, now for
[14:28] Speaker 2: the Knicks, in particular, for all NBA teams, and I
[14:30] Speaker 2: believe MLB teams as well. The more games you play
[14:33] Speaker 2: at home, the more revenue, but it's not going to
[14:35] Speaker 2: increase you from nine point eight billion to ten point
[14:38] Speaker 2: five or something along those lines.
[14:40] Speaker 4: It'll be interesting to see if this finals, this playoff
[14:44] Speaker 4: run the nixt storyline, This sort of revelation of Webbin
[14:48] Speaker 4: Yama has sort of a rising tide effect on all
[14:51] Speaker 4: NBA valuations. You know, it helps justify this media rights
[14:55] Speaker 4: deal that's a big underpinning for valuations in any major sport.
[15:00] Speaker 4: You know, we're on the verge of likely expansion in
[15:03] Speaker 4: the NBA, so you do wonder if it has an incremental,
[15:07] Speaker 4: sort of broad effect on investors and ownership groups who
[15:11] Speaker 4: are looking at the NBA, you know, being more confident
[15:15] Speaker 4: to pay more as the next few years go on.
[15:18] Speaker 1: And I got to bring it back to the Knicks
[15:21] Speaker 1: and James Dolan. Right now, investors can own a piece
[15:24] Speaker 1: of the franchise through Dolan's MSG Sports, but he's reportedly
[15:29] Speaker 1: considering spinning off the Knicks into its own entity. Broadly speaking, Jason,
[15:35] Speaker 1: what would that mean for the team and for investors
[15:37] Speaker 1: and for fans.
[15:39] Speaker 4: It is one of the very few situations where a
[15:43] Speaker 4: public shareholder can own a piece to the team. To me,
[15:46] Speaker 4: the most interesting thing would be if it was an
[15:49] Speaker 4: entity in and of itself, you would have a maybe
[15:54] Speaker 4: a cleaner and clearer proxy for what these teams are
[15:58] Speaker 4: actually worth, because is right now, a team is worth
[16:01] Speaker 4: whatever someone is willing to pay for it. The mechanism
[16:04] Speaker 4: by which they would do it would be fascinating. But
[16:06] Speaker 4: the transparency with which we could actually see what these teams,
[16:12] Speaker 4: what these businesses are worth, under real financial analysis and
[16:17] Speaker 4: a real look at the book, it would be super
[16:19] Speaker 4: interesting to me at least so once in a lifetime
[16:23] Speaker 4: moment for a lot of people in New York. And
[16:25] Speaker 4: we've never seen anything like this. You know, we do
[16:28] Speaker 4: this for a living. You know, We've had the benefit
[16:31] Speaker 4: of going to a lot of championships, a lot of
[16:33] Speaker 4: important games, been around a lot of fans, and there's
[16:37] Speaker 4: nothing like the New York.
[16:38] Speaker 3: Knicks winning a championship.
[16:39] Speaker 4: And from a business perspective, it's one of the most
[16:42] Speaker 4: fascinating stories I think we've covered in a long time.
[16:45] Speaker 2: And I'm just saying that if you hate the Knicks,
[16:48] Speaker 2: things are going to get a lot worse over the
[16:50] Speaker 2: next year or so because they're the reigning champions and
[16:53] Speaker 2: they can tell you that for another three hundred and
[16:55] Speaker 2: sixty five days, so.
[16:56] Speaker 1: Good luck, it's electric. Thank you guys so much. This
[17:04] Speaker 1: is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.
[17:08] Speaker 1: To get more from the Big Take and unlimited access
[17:10] Speaker 1: to all of bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg
[17:14] Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be
[17:18] Speaker 1: back tomorrow.

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