# Breaking the “Brass” Ceiling

An episode of [Smart Women, Smart Power](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1577846548), 14 Dec 2023, 21 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/CSIS6770602540.mp3?updated=1702487729

Host Kathleen McInnis sat down with Heidi Grant, Vice President of Global Growth and Engagement for Boeing Defense, Space, and Security, at the 2023 Halifax International Security Forum. The pair discussed Heidi’s successful career as a civilian in the national security space, as well as her thoughts on how to make the U.S. defense industry more competitive.

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