# Michael Clarke: Australia’s Most Polarising Cricket Captain on Controversies, Loss & Leadership

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 18 Mar 2026, 1 h 00 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/387b95dd-8ed8-46a4-8411-b41000366034/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Michael Clarke is one of Australian cricket's most successful yet polarising captains. In this revealing conversation, Clarke opens up about his leadership philosophy, the weight of captaincy, and the personal costs of life in the spotlight. He discusses the tragic loss of teammates including Phil Hughes, Shane Warne and Andrew Symonds, shares insights on modern cricket's evolution, and reflects on the controversial moments that defined his career. Clarke also speaks candidly about fatherhood, finding balance through the strong women in his life, and how becoming a parent has fundamentally changed his perspective on leadership and empathy. You can subscribe to the free Mentored newsletter here: https://lnkd.in/e7C8akgj. Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Michael Clarke. Welcome to straight to it, mate, Mark. Thanks
[0:02] Speaker 1: for having me, buddy. Now I got your nickname is Pup.
[0:05] Speaker 1: It used to be Pub.
[0:06] Speaker 2: No, it still is. I still get gone to Trust me.
[0:09] Speaker 2: I've been caught a lot worse, so I don't mind.
[0:11] Speaker 1: Pup's not bad, yeah, but that's not a bad place
[0:13] Speaker 1: to start for me. How did you get the nickname?
[0:16] Speaker 2: Pub?
[0:17] Speaker 1: And he gave it to me.
[0:18] Speaker 2: I was the youngest player at that time in the
[0:20] Speaker 2: Australian team. How old were you I think when I
[0:25] Speaker 2: first start? I think I was twenty one when I
[0:27] Speaker 2: played my first one dayer, well twenty three my first
[0:31] Speaker 2: Test match.
[0:32] Speaker 1: So yeah, Pup was what I Pup was.
[0:34] Speaker 2: What I got, and Pup is what I'm stuck with
[0:37] Speaker 2: more amongst the players or just generally it It started
[0:40] Speaker 2: from teammates and then that obviously just become public knowledge.
[0:46] Speaker 2: And now I still get young boys or girls coming
[0:48] Speaker 2: up the saying pup cano a photo. So it was
[0:50] Speaker 2: like young Pup, that's out, Yeah, young Pup. Yeah.
[0:52] Speaker 1: When you have that sort of you know, let's call
[0:56] Speaker 1: it your moniker and well your nickname does that to
[1:00] Speaker 1: some extent make it harder to establish your authority in
[1:05] Speaker 1: your environment, either as a player or as a combatant
[1:08] Speaker 1: against the other side or captain. I don't think so.
[1:12] Speaker 1: I don't think I.
[1:13] Speaker 2: Ever looked at it too closely, to be honest. I
[1:16] Speaker 2: think because there was like the other thing as well.
[1:19] Speaker 2: I used to I used to call Matthew Hayden the
[1:23] Speaker 2: big fish, and then the other nickname I was given
[1:26] Speaker 2: when I was a youngster was Nemo, the youngest, smallest
[1:29] Speaker 2: fish in the pond. So I think I think when
[1:32] Speaker 2: I played in that generation of players, there was no
[1:36] Speaker 2: doubt I was the baby of the team in every
[1:38] Speaker 2: essence at alone, you know, just being the youngest. So
[1:43] Speaker 2: it was actually a nice feeling, to be honest, when
[1:45] Speaker 2: I when I started to feel like I had so
[1:48] Speaker 2: many big brothers, I felt very well supported, and it
[1:52] Speaker 2: was it was very clear I was the youngest player
[1:55] Speaker 2: in like I say, in a number of different ways.
[1:57] Speaker 2: So I was such a baby, and I think as
[2:00] Speaker 2: time goes on through your career, it's yeah, I don't know.
[2:03] Speaker 2: It was just one of those things that that's stuck,
[2:05] Speaker 2: probably because you don't love it. Generally, with a nickname,
[2:08] Speaker 2: if you don't love it, it sticks. If you love
[2:10] Speaker 2: it they'll fade it out and give you something you
[2:11] Speaker 2: don't like.
[2:12] Speaker 1: To you know, yeah, you probably think yourself. I've got
[2:15] Speaker 1: a few other names. I'd rather you call it. I've
[2:17] Speaker 1: been caught a lot worse.
[2:18] Speaker 2: I think that was my theory as well. I've been
[2:21] Speaker 2: on the field especially, get caught a lot worse.
[2:23] Speaker 1: So it's like, okay, It's an interesting way to look
[2:25] Speaker 1: at it, though, because some people might look at it
[2:28] Speaker 1: as I've got something to prove. I've got to prove
[2:31] Speaker 1: myself not to be the pub what's your mindset like?
[2:35] Speaker 1: Are you?
[2:36] Speaker 2: I was very confident as a player. I enjoyed that
[2:39] Speaker 2: young role. I think I think I was I was
[2:42] Speaker 2: one or the other. I was either you know, the
[2:44] Speaker 2: young kid who could get up to mischief and cause
[2:48] Speaker 2: chaos and probably needed good seniors around me to discipline me.
[2:55] Speaker 2: Hence my relationship with my old man. I think that
[2:57] Speaker 2: started from a very young age that if I, you know,
[2:59] Speaker 2: I was, I wasn't great at school. I'll get in
[3:01] Speaker 2: trouble a bit. But it also, you know, he was
[3:04] Speaker 2: very honest and straight with me, and back then a
[3:08] Speaker 2: Belding never never went austray. So I've got a few
[3:10] Speaker 2: of those as a kid, but I think the senior
[3:13] Speaker 2: players in that Australian team were a number of times
[3:16] Speaker 2: have to pull me into line. So I think I
[3:18] Speaker 2: was either there or I was the leader. I was
[3:20] Speaker 2: the captain. I think that the stage I probably found
[3:23] Speaker 2: most difficult was that in between when I was I
[3:25] Speaker 2: was vice captain under Ricky Ponting. I think I, you know,
[3:29] Speaker 2: I saw the game a certain way, certainly tactically, and
[3:34] Speaker 2: I think every every leader that I played with was
[3:39] Speaker 2: all very different. I think it's it's like parenting. I
[3:41] Speaker 2: guess as a parent, you take strengths that I idolized mum
[3:45] Speaker 2: and dad the way they brought up my sister and I,
[3:48] Speaker 2: but I'm a very different parent to both my dad
[3:51] Speaker 2: and my mum as well, so I guess my leadership
[3:53] Speaker 2: style was like that as well. I was a different
[3:55] Speaker 2: leader to you know, I played under Steve Ware, I
[3:57] Speaker 2: played under Ricky Ponting for Australia, and I played under
[4:00] Speaker 2: obviously good leaders for New South Wales and Western Suburbs
[4:03] Speaker 2: as well. But the in between part where you couldn't
[4:07] Speaker 2: be accountable was quite difficult for me. You know, it's
[4:10] Speaker 2: either one of the youngsters or full accountability, I think
[4:13] Speaker 2: I could manage. I think I don't think I suited
[4:14] Speaker 2: those two places. It was the in between where you
[4:18] Speaker 2: voice your ideas but there's no accountability. And in a
[4:21] Speaker 2: vice captain's role as well, you do have to voice
[4:24] Speaker 2: your opinion and your idea and you do need to,
[4:27] Speaker 2: you know, be watching the game like a captain and
[4:29] Speaker 2: passing things on.
[4:31] Speaker 1: But with no accountability, it just didn't suit me. I
[4:34] Speaker 1: don't think. Do you mind if we just go back
[4:36] Speaker 1: to you said to mom and dad, and just go
[4:37] Speaker 1: back to your kid from Liverpool up in the West Suburbs,
[4:41] Speaker 1: done brilliantly. Well, thank you for someone who probably didn't
[4:45] Speaker 1: grow up with all the advantages of maybe your own
[4:47] Speaker 1: daughter for that matter, or my kids too for that matter.
[4:50] Speaker 1: You know your daughter's at Cambala. My boys went to
[4:52] Speaker 1: Cranbville in Scott's So if you take yourself back as
[4:57] Speaker 1: a kid, and for those people who were watching this
[5:02] Speaker 1: or listening to this, if you're listening on Spotify or
[5:05] Speaker 1: watching on YouTube, what you're not seeing is Michael's legs
[5:09] Speaker 1: moving all the time. And he's quite an active guy,
[5:13] Speaker 1: very very active. And I remember when I had a
[5:17] Speaker 1: coffee with you and your daughter and Byron recently you
[5:19] Speaker 1: were the same. You're moving all the time. Yeah, it's
[5:22] Speaker 1: a good way to keep you weight down. The calories
[5:25] Speaker 1: post forty, it doesn't work. You're still a pup mate.
[5:29] Speaker 1: You're only a couple of years over that. Well, as
[5:32] Speaker 1: a kid, you said every now and then you might
[5:35] Speaker 1: have got out of line and your old man might
[5:37] Speaker 1: have given me one What were you as a kid? What?
[5:40] Speaker 1: What were you like as a kid? Were You're a
[5:42] Speaker 1: good boy, but it was a terror.
[5:46] Speaker 2: I don't think rules have ever gone well with me,
[5:48] Speaker 2: And even like trying to make sense, I think it can,
[5:52] Speaker 2: it can come across the wrong way. I just think
[5:54] Speaker 2: I think I was a tester of rules. I think
[5:57] Speaker 2: I had an amazing family. A tough sister, tomboys sister
[6:02] Speaker 2: two years older than me, fitter, stronger, did triathlons, taught
[6:07] Speaker 2: me how to become a professional athlete.
[6:09] Speaker 1: Was an aerobics instructor.
[6:11] Speaker 2: She was accidentally my mentor really when I got to that,
[6:18] Speaker 2: probably somewhere between maybe fifteen and nineteen, to actually show
[6:24] Speaker 2: me and I become a professional when I was I
[6:26] Speaker 2: think I just turned eighteen when I got my when
[6:28] Speaker 2: I got a contract from New South Wales when I
[6:30] Speaker 2: didn't have to work, but I didn't train like a
[6:33] Speaker 2: professional where she was doing triathlons and aerobics instructor.
[6:36] Speaker 1: She was flogging herself. So what does that mean though,
[6:40] Speaker 1: so living a life her life professionally or training professionally.
[6:44] Speaker 2: No, she was full time work, but the way she
[6:46] Speaker 2: trained was how I thought a professional athlete should be training.
[6:49] Speaker 2: She was going to work Monday to Friday and then
[6:52] Speaker 2: training for a triathlon and then doing aerobics instructing. And
[6:56] Speaker 2: she was not the professional athlete I was. I was
[6:59] Speaker 2: going for a tow any minute jog, hitting a few
[7:01] Speaker 2: balls and chilling.
[7:02] Speaker 1: Out my mate.
[7:03] Speaker 2: So you know, I think she certainly showed me what
[7:07] Speaker 2: was required to become fit enough to play sport at
[7:10] Speaker 2: the highest level or to certainly get the best out
[7:12] Speaker 2: of myself.
[7:14] Speaker 1: Mum and Dad Mum very strict, dad Dad a very
[7:20] Speaker 1: big supporter of whatever Mum said.
[7:24] Speaker 2: But I think Mum was like Mum was got to
[7:28] Speaker 2: go to school, got to do your homework, but every
[7:30] Speaker 2: part of that was to only get to cricket training
[7:32] Speaker 2: or footy training. You know, if I could find a
[7:34] Speaker 2: way to do homework on the bus on the way
[7:36] Speaker 2: home and then drop the backpack off and get straight
[7:39] Speaker 2: to the indoor sports center.
[7:40] Speaker 1: That's what I'd do.
[7:42] Speaker 2: And Mum was again, Mum was. Mum was working full
[7:45] Speaker 2: time at Commorth Bank. She was a teller for thirty years.
[7:49] Speaker 2: Dad did a milk run a brick truck and then.
[7:51] Speaker 1: They ended up. Mum and Dad bought an indoor sports center,
[7:54] Speaker 1: so he run that.
[7:54] Speaker 2: So he was at work a lot of the time,
[7:58] Speaker 2: but consistently on the phone to mum's. So I was
[8:00] Speaker 2: playing up, you know, Mum's I guess the control was
[8:04] Speaker 2: if you speak to me like that, if you don't
[8:06] Speaker 2: do your homework, if you you know, don't leave your
[8:09] Speaker 2: sister alone, of in your father, And there was that
[8:13] Speaker 2: certainly that I say ultimate respect. There was that fear
[8:17] Speaker 2: factor of my dad, but never in a way, you know,
[8:20] Speaker 2: not a violent way, no way, complete opposite like my father,
[8:24] Speaker 2: you know, to this day is my best mate. So
[8:26] Speaker 2: it was it was a it was a tough, honest relationship.
[8:30] Speaker 2: And if I misbehaved, I knew about it. But there's
[8:32] Speaker 2: never fear of you know, anything like that.
[8:35] Speaker 1: Do you think that they knew that you might have
[8:37] Speaker 1: had a bit of what we would all want to
[8:39] Speaker 1: do is label things these days, adhdeve and all the ship.
[8:43] Speaker 1: Do you think they might have known that about you?
[8:44] Speaker 2: I think my mum. I think my mum definitely thought
[8:48] Speaker 2: I was a clean freak from a young age, so
[8:51] Speaker 2: O c D. Like we used to have Sunday was
[8:55] Speaker 2: Mum's clean up day where she'd clean dust the whole
[8:58] Speaker 2: house and generally she'd my sister, you got to go
[9:01] Speaker 2: and clean your room. She never had to tell me
[9:03] Speaker 2: to go and clean my room. My room was spotless
[9:05] Speaker 2: all the time. So I think certainly that. Yeah, I
[9:11] Speaker 2: think I've never been diagnosed with ADHD or OCD, but
[9:17] Speaker 2: I think yeah, I think my mum would say he
[9:18] Speaker 2: was certainly hyper as a kid, couldn't sit still a
[9:22] Speaker 2: lot of energy. Yeah, I think I'm still the same,
[9:27] Speaker 2: Like sitting stopping my body is not what I think
[9:31] Speaker 2: my body's for. I think I'm built to move, like
[9:34] Speaker 2: even if it's go for a walk. I just think, yeah,
[9:37] Speaker 2: I find sitting still hard and patience is probably not
[9:41] Speaker 2: my great strength either.
[9:42] Speaker 1: It's this interesting, as she said, because I actually don't
[9:45] Speaker 1: know not just a sports person, as successful person, I
[9:48] Speaker 1: do not know one who hasn't got hard drive in
[9:52] Speaker 1: them and as a result of that hard drive have
[9:56] Speaker 1: a made some mistakes. I overstepped the line, and then
[10:00] Speaker 1: everybody else will sit back and go that particular individual
[10:05] Speaker 1: can't control themselves. Yeah, I mean, is that something you
[10:08] Speaker 1: feel as though the jaw have experience in your life.
[10:10] Speaker 2: I think there's probably different different variables based on age as.
[10:16] Speaker 1: Well timing in your life.
[10:17] Speaker 2: Like I think breaking rules now is a lot different
[10:20] Speaker 2: to breaking rules as a sixteen year old boy or
[10:23] Speaker 2: twenty years ago. And obviously different generation, different time, but
[10:27] Speaker 2: also you know the I think the important part.
[10:32] Speaker 1: Of being a parent is.
[10:35] Speaker 2: Being willing to discipline your child when they are out
[10:38] Speaker 2: of line, and discipline comes in a lot of different ways.
[10:41] Speaker 2: It might be having a conversation, it might be, you know,
[10:45] Speaker 2: the correction of you can't speak to someone like that.
[10:48] Speaker 2: You know, no, you're not going to get that because
[10:50] Speaker 2: you didn't use your manners, like it all depends on
[10:53] Speaker 2: the child. My daughter is a much much softer child
[10:57] Speaker 2: to what I was, or to what my sister was.
[10:59] Speaker 1: So my daughter.
[11:02] Speaker 2: Interesting to ask my mum and dad that is, as
[11:05] Speaker 2: her grandparents, I think they would say very different to
[11:08] Speaker 2: how they had to parent me.
[11:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, but I've noticed it. But I did have when
[11:11] Speaker 1: I saw you say to your daughter, hang on, i'm speaking, yeah,
[11:14] Speaker 1: once or twice when you were talking to me in
[11:16] Speaker 1: other words, please don't interrupt. Yeah, you did it very judiciously,
[11:21] Speaker 1: and you know, nicely, as a good parent. But you
[11:24] Speaker 1: also made you a few times that you correct you said,
[11:27] Speaker 1: do you just say thank you? And stuff with that.
[11:28] Speaker 1: Managers are important to me, They're really important.
[11:30] Speaker 2: So I just think there's probably a handful of values
[11:35] Speaker 2: that are super significant because that's what mum and dad
[11:39] Speaker 2: instilled in me, and manager they're at the top of
[11:41] Speaker 2: the tree. I just think it's a it's a very
[11:44] Speaker 2: easy way to look like a spoilt brat. I think
[11:47] Speaker 2: if you're you know, if you're not saying please and
[11:49] Speaker 2: thank you and recognizing what other people are doing for you,
[11:52] Speaker 2: I think I think it's a. Yeah, I don't want
[11:54] Speaker 2: my daughter to be like that. I certainly am not
[11:56] Speaker 2: like that. It's still important to me, you know, little things.
[12:00] Speaker 2: I could if I have dinner at my mom's house
[12:03] Speaker 2: and my dad's there and I have a cap on
[12:04] Speaker 2: at the table, he'd still tell me to take my
[12:06] Speaker 2: cap on fair enough. If I swear in front. I
[12:08] Speaker 2: could swear in front of anybody in the world. If
[12:10] Speaker 2: I swear in front of my mother and my father
[12:11] Speaker 2: he is he'd still give me a clip over the years.
[12:13] Speaker 2: So it's just stuff that and again different generation, different era,
[12:16] Speaker 2: but there's stuff that is stuck with me. So hopefully
[12:19] Speaker 2: I can instill some some of those values. My daughter's
[12:22] Speaker 2: not going to wear a cap at the table, but
[12:24] Speaker 2: she might at the moment.
[12:25] Speaker 1: She's not. But yeah, just some of those things.
[12:27] Speaker 2: But men as a manner's respect, I think that stuff's free.
[12:30] Speaker 1: That stuff's basic and very important in my house. But
[12:34] Speaker 1: you and I know a lot of blokes like you know,
[12:37] Speaker 1: even Ricky pointing to seeing them only recently, and you
[12:40] Speaker 1: know Jef panic shame warn. I mean, none of these guys,
[12:45] Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's a oldest of women as well,
[12:47] Speaker 1: you know, who've done well in their lives. None of
[12:50] Speaker 1: these people have been have avoided controversy. Yeah, and I
[12:55] Speaker 1: have to be honest applied to myself as well. And
[12:59] Speaker 1: I out of that one, yeah, I can't. I can't
[13:02] Speaker 1: back out of it. And I was only thinking about
[13:04] Speaker 1: it this morning. I mean I got in trouble not
[13:08] Speaker 1: that long ago. Actually, for unfortunately clipping a bloke and
[13:11] Speaker 1: because of self defence I got out of it, and
[13:13] Speaker 1: then because I was over shot of self defense. But
[13:16] Speaker 1: controversy seems to follow people around who are successful. That's
[13:20] Speaker 1: my experience. Yeah, I mean like and you know you
[13:23] Speaker 1: just mentioned too of them before you play cricket with Yeah,
[13:26] Speaker 1: you know warn End Ponting.
[13:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, in trouble for different in different ways, but still
[13:32] Speaker 2: the same deal.
[13:33] Speaker 1: Yeah. True. Well, someone says in indiscretion and I think
[13:37] Speaker 1: it's I actually think and I would love to know
[13:40] Speaker 1: your opinion for those individuals. It's actually part of the superpower.
[13:45] Speaker 1: But it's a strength and the weakness.
[13:47] Speaker 2: Trust me, I want to agree with you, but I
[13:50] Speaker 2: think I think what I think what you generally do
[13:54] Speaker 2: as a as an athlete, because that I can talk
[13:56] Speaker 2: about is you you push the boundaries I think every
[14:00] Speaker 2: part of your life and in business too, and yeah,
[14:02] Speaker 2: you got to push the b you got to. I
[14:04] Speaker 2: was gonna say, you've got to take risks. And I
[14:06] Speaker 2: think I think the challenge for all of us is
[14:09] Speaker 2: to head button the line, don't overstep the line. But
[14:12] Speaker 2: sometimes we overstep the line.
[14:14] Speaker 1: We never know where it is.
[14:15] Speaker 2: That's when sometimes you got to overstep to find it.
[14:18] Speaker 1: Well, that's what I say.
[14:19] Speaker 2: Like if as with my old man, it was virtually
[14:23] Speaker 2: you had to work out how far you could push
[14:25] Speaker 2: before you.
[14:25] Speaker 1: Go, well, I ain't going there again.
[14:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was you find that level and
[14:29] Speaker 2: then you you know, I can't go there again.
[14:31] Speaker 1: So look the other thing as well.
[14:33] Speaker 2: That is, especially these days, if you're making it, if
[14:37] Speaker 2: you're having success at something, there's positive press and there's
[14:41] Speaker 2: negative press. It has to come with with all of it.
[14:44] Speaker 2: You can't have one without the other, you know. For me,
[14:48] Speaker 2: my personal life has played a part in regards to
[14:51] Speaker 2: being in the spotlight, being in the media.
[14:53] Speaker 1: Well, anytime something doesn't go to plan.
[14:56] Speaker 2: If you break up, if you have a divorce, it's
[14:59] Speaker 2: you know, they've written about the relationship in such a
[15:02] Speaker 2: good way when you're together. When that happens, they have
[15:06] Speaker 2: to also write that you're no longer together. And there's
[15:09] Speaker 2: a lot of it.
[15:09] Speaker 1: You can't control.
[15:10] Speaker 2: There's a lot of it that people are interested in
[15:12] Speaker 2: that it's hard to fathom when you're the person that
[15:15] Speaker 2: they're writing about.
[15:15] Speaker 1: It doesn't you know, it doesn't make sense to me,
[15:17] Speaker 1: But why are you interested? Yeah?
[15:19] Speaker 2: I don't like, because if somebody got divorced apart from me,
[15:23] Speaker 2: once I hear about it and think, Matt, I just
[15:25] Speaker 2: hope the kids are okay, or they'll be okay and
[15:27] Speaker 2: the young they'll you know, they'll move on.
[15:29] Speaker 1: I don't really want to know.
[15:31] Speaker 2: The details of why they broke up, how long they've
[15:34] Speaker 2: been broken up for, if there was somebody else now, like,
[15:37] Speaker 2: you just want, especially when the kids involved, you like,
[15:40] Speaker 2: just make sure every everything's as good as it can
[15:42] Speaker 2: be for the family, for the kids, you know. But
[15:46] Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think when you're when you're when
[15:48] Speaker 2: you're doing something, it's in the spotlight. It's it's going
[15:51] Speaker 2: to be spoken about, and there's no way of avoiding that.
[15:54] Speaker 1: So do you think do you think therefore it's more
[15:57] Speaker 1: of more a media driver because.
[16:00] Speaker 2: Or well behave you creates like if you're not like
[16:04] Speaker 2: without the behavior, I guess the media has got nothing
[16:07] Speaker 2: to write about. But also type of character, like I
[16:10] Speaker 2: think I'm you know, I'm probably I've probably polarized through
[16:14] Speaker 2: my career. So that allows for both sides. That allows
[16:17] Speaker 2: for a side of the media to like me, and
[16:19] Speaker 2: that allows for a side of the media.
[16:21] Speaker 1: To not like me.
[16:21] Speaker 2: And I think that was one of the things that.
[16:25] Speaker 1: I think.
[16:26] Speaker 2: You always want everyone to love you, but I think.
[16:28] Speaker 1: I was okay with that if they didn't. Yeah, I
[16:31] Speaker 1: think I was. I think I think I cared more
[16:33] Speaker 1: about being true to who I was. Is that actually
[16:37] Speaker 1: a thought though? Were you think yourself, it's more important
[16:39] Speaker 1: for me to be true who I am.
[16:41] Speaker 2: I think when I got to a stage when I
[16:43] Speaker 2: was about twenty six or twenty seven, I'd read stuff
[16:46] Speaker 2: about myself that wasn't true. So I'd try and go
[16:49] Speaker 2: to my agent, get them to contact the journalists, tell them, mate,
[16:52] Speaker 2: where's your story come from? It's one hundred percent not true?
[16:54] Speaker 2: How can you write it? Then you also is a defamation?
[16:58] Speaker 2: You're talking to lawyers like I've got a stage with
[17:00] Speaker 2: all of that. I was like, I can't change it.
[17:03] Speaker 2: So now I've just got to be true to myself.
[17:06] Speaker 2: Like the people that know me know me, they know
[17:08] Speaker 2: my values, they know what I'm like. Doesn't mean you
[17:11] Speaker 2: know stuff that was written was all false. That's not
[17:13] Speaker 2: that's not the case at all. Doesn't mean I didn't
[17:15] Speaker 2: stuff up. There's plenty of those. But in regards to
[17:19] Speaker 2: the most important thing was I'm going to do it
[17:21] Speaker 2: the way I want to do it. I'm going to
[17:22] Speaker 2: try and be the best I can be. I'm going
[17:23] Speaker 2: to be the person that I am.
[17:25] Speaker 1: So he said that that's a fairly logical way of
[17:27] Speaker 1: looking at things. That's actually fairly mature. When someone's reading about,
[17:32] Speaker 1: you know, something you might have allegedly done or been involved.
[17:36] Speaker 1: Let's pick you and Carl that that event, Carl Stefanovick,
[17:41] Speaker 1: everybody wanted to talk about the scintillating side of stuff,
[17:44] Speaker 1: because you know that's social media and the newspapers these days,
[17:48] Speaker 1: cells as well. Do you logically sit back and say, well,
[17:53] Speaker 1: you know, there was reasons for it. I mean, sure
[17:56] Speaker 1: I stuffed up, but there's reasons for it. And this
[17:58] Speaker 1: is how I is that like a just justification process.
[18:01] Speaker 1: I think it's looking in the mirrors.
[18:03] Speaker 2: In other words, you take a hard look at yourself
[18:05] Speaker 2: hundred percent, and there's no tougher critic than yourself. You're
[18:08] Speaker 2: like that, No, some people aren't like that, well one
[18:10] Speaker 2: hundred percent, no brainer. It's the same as when you
[18:13] Speaker 2: you know, you get criticized for not making runs or
[18:15] Speaker 2: you lose a game when your captain.
[18:17] Speaker 1: Generally you're accountable when you when you lose your foot.
[18:20] Speaker 1: But I was hard.
[18:21] Speaker 2: I was like, I did miss a trick there, you
[18:24] Speaker 2: know that's there was a ship shot. I shouldn't have
[18:26] Speaker 2: played that shot under pressure. The team needed me to
[18:28] Speaker 2: be more disciplined. Yeah, so I think i'dn't think that
[18:32] Speaker 2: changes off the field.
[18:33] Speaker 1: I think that your dad's sort of talking to you.
[18:35] Speaker 1: I mean, like in the back of your mind sort
[18:37] Speaker 1: of thing.
[18:37] Speaker 2: Maybe I think it's I think it's I think it's
[18:42] Speaker 2: the honesty that has been drilled into me. Like you know,
[18:46] Speaker 2: there's there's times and places where you might mix the
[18:51] Speaker 2: truth because you're trying to protect somebody else, which you know,
[18:55] Speaker 2: you do as a teammate, you do as captain, you
[18:57] Speaker 2: do when stuff happens off the field because you you're
[19:00] Speaker 2: respecting other people. Are the families that type of thing.
[19:04] Speaker 2: But I think that the deep truth smashes straight.
[19:07] Speaker 1: Between the eyes. You can't miss that.
[19:09] Speaker 2: Just help me and I'll say that's I think, Oh,
[19:12] Speaker 2: credit Mum and dad for that as well. I think
[19:14] Speaker 2: that's that's my grandfather. My grandfather is a straight shooter.
[19:18] Speaker 2: I think nobody, nobody in my family has ever ever
[19:21] Speaker 2: found it hard to have a tough conversation. It's always
[19:24] Speaker 2: been hang on a second, press pause, we're having this
[19:28] Speaker 2: chat because what's just happened is not right. So I
[19:31] Speaker 2: think that's probably the way I see life as well,
[19:35] Speaker 2: So letting it just go by and it's not going
[19:39] Speaker 2: to fix the problem.
[19:40] Speaker 1: So there's a lot of former captains on this train
[19:42] Speaker 1: side have had. You know, this is cricket we're talking about.
[19:47] Speaker 1: But crickets is more crazy than footy. Everybody, some people
[19:54] Speaker 1: don't realize cricketers, Yeah, we're nuts, go crazy like just
[20:00] Speaker 1: like regularly, but actually more so.
[20:02] Speaker 2: Well I can tell you we certainly the culture I
[20:05] Speaker 2: grew up in it was you drank, You celebrated your
[20:09] Speaker 2: success and you drown your sorrows when you're lost. And
[20:12] Speaker 2: we love to drink as much and we again, I
[20:14] Speaker 2: love footy, I lovely. I support the West Tigers. So
[20:16] Speaker 2: a lot of my mates when I was playing, we
[20:19] Speaker 2: would cross codes if we saw if we went out
[20:21] Speaker 2: and there was some leagues there or AFL boys, we
[20:23] Speaker 2: were drinking together.
[20:24] Speaker 1: So yeah, just as wild too. I don't think you could.
[20:29] Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything that you could say an
[20:32] Speaker 2: athlete in any sport is any different. I think when
[20:35] Speaker 2: you're when you're living life, traveling the world, and you
[20:38] Speaker 2: like a drink. I would I would be saying, I
[20:40] Speaker 2: wouldn't be pinpointing. I wouldn't be saying to any other
[20:43] Speaker 2: sport that you're worse than cricketers.
[20:45] Speaker 1: Put it that way, because one of the things I've
[20:46] Speaker 1: always wanted to know, I've always want to know is
[20:49] Speaker 1: you and Caddage, who gave you up? Because what happens
[20:52] Speaker 1: in the dressing shed stays in the dresser shed. No,
[20:55] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[20:55] Speaker 2: I don't know how it got out, and again it
[20:58] Speaker 2: doesn't matter, like at the end.
[20:59] Speaker 1: That's that's the thing trying to break. I'm trying to
[21:00] Speaker 1: find Webby's sauce.
[21:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, true, I don't know.
[21:05] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[21:05] Speaker 2: But to me it was it was a disagreement in
[21:07] Speaker 2: a change room and then from my point.
[21:10] Speaker 1: Of view, it was done, it was dealt with.
[21:12] Speaker 2: And again I've seen Kado a million times commentate the IPL,
[21:17] Speaker 2: see him at certain events. Whatever it is, it was
[21:20] Speaker 2: dead for me then. But things like that's what I'm
[21:23] Speaker 2: saying the media, And I don't know Simon's side either,
[21:26] Speaker 2: Like I don't know if Kado still has beef with me.
[21:28] Speaker 2: When I see him. He's completely fine, but I don't
[21:30] Speaker 2: know what he would say to other people. And that's
[21:32] Speaker 2: again not my business, not my place.
[21:34] Speaker 1: You know.
[21:35] Speaker 2: I grew up in in sports where you could have
[21:37] Speaker 2: a disagreement and then and sometimes even at footy training
[21:41] Speaker 2: as a kid, it would be a stink, But then
[21:43] Speaker 2: tomorrow you run in the field together. Yeah, like that's
[21:46] Speaker 2: how Again, that was instilled in me as a kid,
[21:50] Speaker 2: and that's how I see me. You still see in
[21:52] Speaker 2: every other sport. It still happens these days. Gets smacked
[21:56] Speaker 2: at training for the waratars recently. Like I'm not saying
[21:59] Speaker 2: it's right, Don't get me wrong.
[22:01] Speaker 1: We should have happened, but it happened.
[22:02] Speaker 2: You're competing like you don't make I'm going to the
[22:04] Speaker 2: nets and facing Brettley trying to bowl one hundred and sixty.
[22:07] Speaker 2: K's trying to get picked for selection, and on the
[22:09] Speaker 2: captain he's trying to rip my head off.
[22:11] Speaker 1: So if I get hit in the head, it's sort
[22:13] Speaker 1: of surprise.
[22:14] Speaker 2: You're competing against each other hard Who.
[22:18] Speaker 1: Was who was the toughest bowler to face in terms
[22:20] Speaker 1: of speed?
[22:20] Speaker 2: Was a.
[22:23] Speaker 1: Back that was the fastest overface? Yeah? Was speed? Were
[22:25] Speaker 1: talking about?
[22:26] Speaker 2: Well, he bowled a few balls over one sixty k's well,
[22:29] Speaker 2: but it was high one fifties consistently for a good
[22:32] Speaker 2: period throughout his career.
[22:34] Speaker 1: But yeah, he was.
[22:35] Speaker 2: He felt faster than everybody else that I face some quicks, Brettley,
[22:39] Speaker 2: Sean Taate, Yeah, Mitchell Johnson, Mitchell Stark, who have I
[22:44] Speaker 2: missed made? We had some We had some super quick
[22:47] Speaker 2: bowlers back.
[22:47] Speaker 1: In the day. Bradley, I remember that period. Faster he
[22:52] Speaker 1: was they Actually Brettley did some work for us many
[22:54] Speaker 1: minutes ago, actually a wizard branch at one stage in
[22:57] Speaker 1: Down Down that he just moved the Dubai as he
[23:00] Speaker 1: he's living in Dubai. Yeah, I don't know if he's
[23:02] Speaker 1: for doing what. I don't know. I don't know.
[23:04] Speaker 2: I don't know who's I think he signed a deal
[23:06] Speaker 2: with well, sorry, I'm assuming because I saw something online
[23:10] Speaker 2: the other day. I think it was with a property company,
[23:13] Speaker 2: So I'm assuming that's played a part in the house
[23:15] Speaker 2: that he's brought there.
[23:16] Speaker 1: But yeah, he's living full time. They've packed his family
[23:18] Speaker 1: up and living. That not a great time to be
[23:19] Speaker 1: they're just not This last week I got to be
[23:21] Speaker 1: back in stew And you mentioned I think he mentioned
[23:25] Speaker 1: as Sigmon's end of Simon. So you and he were
[23:27] Speaker 1: great mates, very good friends, and then unfortunately he passed
[23:31] Speaker 1: away as we know, and will quickly touch on him.
[23:34] Speaker 1: But you're great mates. Then you you got made captain
[23:37] Speaker 1: and when you become a leader, as a leader toughs
[23:41] Speaker 1: tough talk about that because at one stage, you know,
[23:45] Speaker 1: you were sitting under the guidance of other leaders. Ye,
[23:48] Speaker 1: Ricky pointing example. And at the end of the day,
[23:50] Speaker 1: he can make all these you talk about, the middle guy,
[23:52] Speaker 1: the vice captain didn't have to do anything not accountable.
[23:55] Speaker 1: When you're the leader, you're accountable and none of that.
[23:57] Speaker 1: You've got to sort of start to sort out your friendship. Yeah.
[24:00] Speaker 2: Look, I will only be super respectful to Simmo, especially
[24:07] Speaker 2: because he's not here to sit in this chair. And
[24:09] Speaker 2: if I was to say something that he disagreed with,
[24:11] Speaker 2: he hasn't got that chance.
[24:13] Speaker 1: And how do you feel about being a leader and
[24:15] Speaker 1: you've got to make tough decisions about friends.
[24:17] Speaker 2: I think that was that was part of when I
[24:20] Speaker 2: when I took over the captaincy or at that stage
[24:23] Speaker 2: with that incident, it was more I was vice captain.
[24:27] Speaker 2: Ricky missed that series, so I become captain, so any
[24:30] Speaker 2: decisions that were made through that period were communicated over
[24:33] Speaker 2: the phone with Ricky who was away at the.
[24:34] Speaker 1: Time as well.
[24:36] Speaker 2: But I think there's no doubt that's that's a fact
[24:38] Speaker 2: that when you become captain of a cricket team, because
[24:40] Speaker 2: you are making decisions daily on what you think is
[24:45] Speaker 2: best for the team. Yes, you have a coach, Yes
[24:47] Speaker 2: I have a vice captain, but you're the one accountable
[24:49] Speaker 2: as captain.
[24:50] Speaker 1: So maybe you could explain how it works over like
[24:52] Speaker 1: as opposed to a rugby league team, you've got the coach.
[24:54] Speaker 1: Coach is very influenced the ragul leag team in cricket.
[24:57] Speaker 2: Different in my in my era and when I grew
[24:59] Speaker 2: up and then when I was captain, the captain was
[25:01] Speaker 2: one hundred percent making ninety nine percent of the decisions
[25:06] Speaker 2: around the team. Yes, speaking to the coach, in communication
[25:09] Speaker 2: with the coach every single time.
[25:11] Speaker 1: You mean just tactically or strategically.
[25:13] Speaker 2: Both you name it, Matt, I could make I could
[25:15] Speaker 2: say we're not going to fly at ten o'clock, We're
[25:16] Speaker 2: going to fly at twelve o'clock, so we changed flight
[25:18] Speaker 2: to twelve. You could be as involved as you want to,
[25:21] Speaker 2: depended on your personality as well, depended on the other
[25:23] Speaker 2: players you had in your team. Like for me, we
[25:26] Speaker 2: had a lot of senior players around me that I
[25:28] Speaker 2: could go to for their opinion, advice, guidance, which helped
[25:34] Speaker 2: me as a as a leader as well, but generally
[25:37] Speaker 2: because I was willing to take full accountability, especially when
[25:41] Speaker 2: we didn't play as well as we should have, you know,
[25:45] Speaker 2: and I was confident I knew how to win.
[25:49] Speaker 1: You know.
[25:49] Speaker 2: When I took over the captaincy, well fifth in the world,
[25:51] Speaker 2: and I asked James Sutherlan and Michael Brown. At the time,
[25:55] Speaker 2: some of them was a CEO. James Sothon is a CEO,
[25:59] Speaker 2: Michael I was a general manager. And they offered me
[26:03] Speaker 2: the captaincy and before I said yes, I asked them
[26:05] Speaker 2: what my job was. What is my responsibility to captain
[26:07] Speaker 2: in Australia. They said, to get us back to number
[26:09] Speaker 2: one in the world. At that stage were number five.
[26:11] Speaker 2: I was like, I accept this job, can't wait because
[26:14] Speaker 2: I felt like I knew how to do that.
[26:16] Speaker 1: I felt like I knew how to win.
[26:17] Speaker 2: I'd played with so many great players, been associated with
[26:20] Speaker 2: an amazing team, felt like we still had, you know,
[26:23] Speaker 2: a really good team that we could get back to
[26:25] Speaker 2: number one.
[26:25] Speaker 1: In the world.
[26:26] Speaker 2: And thankfully we did a lot of hard work, a
[26:29] Speaker 2: lot of ups and downs as a team. But that
[26:32] Speaker 2: was the thing, Like I was, I was willing to
[26:35] Speaker 2: I was willing to make those cause and accept the
[26:37] Speaker 2: consequences if we lost, if I didn't perform, if something
[26:41] Speaker 2: didn't go right, then I was I was going to
[26:43] Speaker 2: lose my job.
[26:44] Speaker 1: I was going to lose the captaincy. But I was.
[26:46] Speaker 1: I was ready for that. I was okay for that accountability.
[26:49] Speaker 1: But what's the first thing you did, Michael? When you
[26:52] Speaker 1: know you got a point it as captain and you
[26:53] Speaker 1: know you want to get us straight back to where
[26:57] Speaker 1: we wanted to be, you know, what's the first you do?
[27:00] Speaker 2: Like what the first thing I did was fought to
[27:03] Speaker 2: keep Ricky Ponting in my team because I think part
[27:06] Speaker 2: of it was I can't remember if it was anybody else.
[27:09] Speaker 2: I remember the conversation, and I think it was I
[27:12] Speaker 2: think the guys were saying, no captain retires and then
[27:15] Speaker 2: stays in the team or it had it happened with
[27:17] Speaker 2: the Australian team before. I don't know if it ever did,
[27:19] Speaker 2: but I think that was what the conversation was getting
[27:21] Speaker 2: to with me and the selectors, and I said, in
[27:26] Speaker 2: my opinion, we needed him, We needed him in the group,
[27:29] Speaker 2: We needed his experience he played. It was more than
[27:32] Speaker 2: just his runs that at that time that I wanted
[27:35] Speaker 2: around the group. So that was probably my first major challenge.
[27:39] Speaker 2: And again I think you have to convince. I had
[27:42] Speaker 2: to convince everyone. I had to convince all the selectors. Again,
[27:47] Speaker 2: it would manage a GM CEO board like that, they
[27:51] Speaker 2: all make the decision.
[27:52] Speaker 1: Nah, I don't think. I think the players would.
[27:55] Speaker 2: I think the players would have agreed with with what
[27:58] Speaker 2: I was fighting for and my reason. So I never
[28:01] Speaker 2: you know, I never heard a player complain about that decision.
[28:05] Speaker 1: I have no doubt.
[28:06] Speaker 2: You can only pick pick eleven to play, So whoever's
[28:08] Speaker 2: number twelve, thirteen, fourteen, they might have been disappointed, But
[28:11] Speaker 2: Ricky wasn't playing bad enough to drop as well. In
[28:15] Speaker 2: my opinion, I know he wasn't at at his best,
[28:17] Speaker 2: but he still offered the team a lot at that
[28:20] Speaker 2: time that I thought was you know, yes, making runs
[28:24] Speaker 2: was the most important, but there was other stuff that
[28:26] Speaker 2: was just as important for us as a as a
[28:29] Speaker 2: team at that time.
[28:30] Speaker 1: Me like a senior leadership times. Yeah.
[28:32] Speaker 2: I think I think experience. I think the way he's
[28:35] Speaker 2: around the group or the way he was around the group.
[28:37] Speaker 2: I think his knowledge of tactical decision on the field.
[28:43] Speaker 2: If I was under pressure, I could go to him
[28:46] Speaker 2: and again, very different style of captain to me. I
[28:50] Speaker 2: think he'd been on tour for such a long period
[28:52] Speaker 2: of time, so a lot of these young guys that
[28:53] Speaker 2: hadn't traveled much of the Australian team, you could go on,
[28:56] Speaker 2: you know, Ricky was another voice or another senior player
[28:58] Speaker 2: can go and ask about you know, we've been away
[29:00] Speaker 2: for four weeks, I'm missing home. Whatever it is like,
[29:03] Speaker 2: It's just there's a lot of things that happen on
[29:04] Speaker 2: a cricket tour because you're traveling so much that I
[29:09] Speaker 2: think the combination of experience and inexperience is super important.
[29:14] Speaker 2: I don't think you can have all kids, and I
[29:16] Speaker 2: don't think you can have all old guys stuck in
[29:18] Speaker 2: our own ways, don't want to make change, you know,
[29:21] Speaker 2: a bit fatigue bits. I I think you need that
[29:23] Speaker 2: enthusiasm as well from the youngsters. So the balance was
[29:26] Speaker 2: important for me.
[29:27] Speaker 1: Would Michael Clark say, okay, Fellas, I want to appoint
[29:31] Speaker 1: a senior leadership group like you didn't do that. You
[29:35] Speaker 1: just bounce between the different ones that you need to.
[29:36] Speaker 2: Have a captain and a vice captain and then you
[29:38] Speaker 2: have your senior players. But I think it was I
[29:41] Speaker 2: think as well part of my learning as a captain
[29:43] Speaker 2: was actually also acknowledging, respecting and listening to a lot
[29:48] Speaker 2: of what the younger players had to say as well,
[29:50] Speaker 2: because they weren't or always they weren't. They hadn't experienced
[29:55] Speaker 2: certain conditions, which sometimes is a strength. When you've been
[29:59] Speaker 2: somewhere and if you've failed or you haven't had success,
[30:01] Speaker 2: sometimes that can play on your mind. If you go
[30:03] Speaker 2: somewhere fresh, you sort of just got no distractions, you've
[30:07] Speaker 2: got no fear. So I think acknowledging and listening to
[30:10] Speaker 2: both and for a lot of the youngsters or guys
[30:13] Speaker 2: that hadn't played that much, that was more of a
[30:15] Speaker 2: one on one conversation where this senior players felt comfortable
[30:18] Speaker 2: talking in front of the team group. Some of the
[30:21] Speaker 2: younger players didn't feel that comfortable. So I was trying
[30:23] Speaker 2: to get that balance and the other thing as well
[30:24] Speaker 2: as using other players around you, like someone like Michael
[30:27] Speaker 2: Hussey I thought had amazing leadership qualities, but he never
[30:32] Speaker 2: kept in Australia.
[30:33] Speaker 1: But Huss was brilliant one on one.
[30:35] Speaker 2: I knew that Huss was going to take two or
[30:37] Speaker 2: three guys for coffee in that four hour period before
[30:41] Speaker 2: we went to training, where I was going to go
[30:42] Speaker 2: and talk to the coach to find out what are
[30:45] Speaker 2: we doing, what's train and planned for? Are we looking
[30:48] Speaker 2: at spinning? Which at wickets were batting in India? Who
[30:51] Speaker 2: were looking at footage wise for the team, Meaning like
[30:54] Speaker 2: I just knew I had someone like Huss that would
[30:56] Speaker 2: go and do that. So then I could speak to
[30:57] Speaker 2: Huss on the team bus. I'd sit beside him and say,
[30:59] Speaker 2: how did you go with a younger player?
[31:01] Speaker 1: You know? So I think it would you have to
[31:04] Speaker 1: ask him to go and talk to them. He just
[31:05] Speaker 1: he just do it at the senior play And that's
[31:07] Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
[31:07] Speaker 2: Ricky was good at that, Michael Hussey was good at that,
[31:09] Speaker 2: Brad Haddam was brilliant at that. They built that really
[31:12] Speaker 2: good friendships with with a lot of the younger players
[31:16] Speaker 2: through that period that they just naturally.
[31:18] Speaker 1: Did it It's an old saying that success is often
[31:21] Speaker 1: built upon the broad shoulders of others as opposed to
[31:24] Speaker 1: the person out the front, which is you're the person
[31:26] Speaker 1: out of the front, but the broad shoulders of others
[31:28] Speaker 1: is really important. What what What is your leadership sort
[31:31] Speaker 1: of style? How would you best describe it?
[31:33] Speaker 2: I think I'd be a different leader now in some ways,
[31:37] Speaker 2: I think I'm a lot softer Now. I think I'm
[31:39] Speaker 2: probably more empathetic.
[31:40] Speaker 1: Now that's interesting.
[31:43] Speaker 2: More.
[31:43] Speaker 1: I think it's my daughter.
[31:44] Speaker 2: I think since having a little girl, I think I
[31:46] Speaker 2: just I was so tough, I was so driven.
[31:51] Speaker 1: It was if in doubt, we're working harder, I'm just
[31:53] Speaker 1: going to roll over the top of you, I just
[31:55] Speaker 1: do it this way.
[31:56] Speaker 2: We're going. If we're running, we're all running. If it's raining,
[31:59] Speaker 2: we're still running. If if we were losing, if we're
[32:02] Speaker 2: not making our friends, we're batting more, we're facing better bowlers.
[32:04] Speaker 2: Where we're training Sunday. Where I was I was a
[32:07] Speaker 2: big believer.
[32:08] Speaker 1: Is just in other words, more well, more of everything.
[32:12] Speaker 2: If if in doubt, I'd rather be overcooked than undercooked.
[32:16] Speaker 2: But then also the balance, because you're traveling ten months
[32:19] Speaker 2: of the year, you can't you can't train every day
[32:21] Speaker 2: you're not playing, and you can't be you know, you
[32:23] Speaker 2: can't be naughty boy net nets every time you fail.
[32:26] Speaker 2: There's also got to be that you know that that balance.
[32:29] Speaker 2: But if in doubt I was, I never ever wanted
[32:33] Speaker 2: to be underprepared.
[32:34] Speaker 1: Did you ever feel as those when you were when
[32:36] Speaker 1: you're the leader? Though you may have overcooked some of
[32:38] Speaker 1: these guys, including myself, Yeah, yeah, because your personality everyone's
[32:44] Speaker 1: not the same. Probably takes that can copy it because
[32:46] Speaker 1: you know you're you're moving and you're on the go
[32:48] Speaker 1: all the time, but a lot of others might might
[32:50] Speaker 1: not be like that.
[32:50] Speaker 2: Well, I think I think I was like even trying
[32:53] Speaker 2: to understand someone if they're having dramas at home or
[32:58] Speaker 2: something happened with a family member, like I didn't have.
[33:03] Speaker 2: I didn't have the capacity to understand, empathize, be gentle
[33:09] Speaker 2: with that, and then still be that driven want to win,
[33:14] Speaker 2: train hard, preparation super important. I didn't have the balance
[33:18] Speaker 2: of both, So I was one hundred percent on the left.
[33:21] Speaker 2: But I think, like I say, have an a daughter now,
[33:25] Speaker 2: I think that does just naturally softened my personality where
[33:28] Speaker 2: I think I would be I would be a lot
[33:31] Speaker 2: more empathetic to even that conversation from a player, and
[33:34] Speaker 2: a lot more respectful of the importance of something's happened,
[33:38] Speaker 2: you know, mentally or at home or you know, I'm
[33:42] Speaker 2: feeling down for I missh whatever the reason is, I
[33:45] Speaker 2: just think I'd be a lot more understanding now than
[33:48] Speaker 2: what I was when I was captain.
[33:49] Speaker 1: You said something interesting about the younger players in the
[33:52] Speaker 1: squad and having the right balance to you, an older
[33:54] Speaker 1: or experienced and less experience. But one of the things
[33:57] Speaker 1: that you said that the younger players bring with them
[33:59] Speaker 1: is a little bit of fitlessness. How is a leader
[34:02] Speaker 1: do you manage the difference between a younger player and
[34:08] Speaker 1: you were one of them at one stage of being fearless?
[34:11] Speaker 1: Manages that process of them being fearless versus reckless?
[34:15] Speaker 2: I think it's you cut slack? How much slack can
[34:18] Speaker 2: you cut? I'm more for let that superstar shine, Like.
[34:23] Speaker 1: Well, what about some of these young kids out there
[34:24] Speaker 1: now and they're you know, they're doing yeah, but I wouldn't.
[34:28] Speaker 1: I wouldn't.
[34:29] Speaker 2: I wouldn't stop anybody doing things their way. I reckon
[34:33] Speaker 2: that is the greatest gift we have to dare to
[34:36] Speaker 2: be different, to do it your way. Now, there are
[34:39] Speaker 2: core fundamentals about you know, you look at any player
[34:42] Speaker 2: that has had success. If you just talk about batting,
[34:45] Speaker 2: there's a core structure and fundamentals when it comes to
[34:48] Speaker 2: the skill of batting. So yes, you have to train that.
[34:51] Speaker 2: But the game has changed, The game has transitioned, The
[34:54] Speaker 2: game has moved.
[34:55] Speaker 1: How is that thought, because like the balls are same,
[34:58] Speaker 1: the pits are the same, like the.
[34:59] Speaker 2: Way we play, Like look at the athlete, like I
[35:02] Speaker 2: think I was in my generation. I think I was.
[35:05] Speaker 2: I was one of the fittest in our team. I
[35:07] Speaker 2: see these players now they are they are ripped. They
[35:11] Speaker 2: are ninety five kilos, six foot strong, no fat speed,
[35:18] Speaker 2: like run as quick as some of our Olympic runners,
[35:21] Speaker 2: Like they are proper the West Indies. You see these guys,
[35:25] Speaker 2: like the way they run even some of I was
[35:28] Speaker 2: watching the recent World Cup, the New Zealand opening batters
[35:32] Speaker 2: man there's six two, six three opening the batting mistiming
[35:36] Speaker 2: a ball for six. You know some of our boys
[35:39] Speaker 2: they just belt them like we used to have. You know,
[35:42] Speaker 2: Andrew Simon's was the player that a lot of players alike.
[35:46] Speaker 2: Now they're built like Simo, and Simo was a standout,
[35:48] Speaker 2: Matthew Aiden stand out, big strong. Now I think I
[35:52] Speaker 2: think you've got to be able to move with times,
[35:55] Speaker 2: like I think, if you don't, you get left behind.
[35:57] Speaker 2: Like I noticed that even if I'm if I'm talking
[36:00] Speaker 2: cricket on my podcast or if I'm commentating, you can't
[36:03] Speaker 2: get stuck in your generation.
[36:06] Speaker 1: And I think to you know.
[36:09] Speaker 2: Things are different, like, yeah, gone to the days where
[36:12] Speaker 2: I'd go to the nets and not practice ducking the
[36:13] Speaker 2: bouncers or letting the balls go. These days guys are
[36:17] Speaker 2: ramping it over the keeper, they're swinging outside the off starm.
[36:20] Speaker 2: So you've got to also accept that there's going to
[36:22] Speaker 2: be some times in test cricket it's not going to
[36:25] Speaker 2: look that great. But then I couldn't play twenty twenty
[36:27] Speaker 2: cricket like these boys do. So I think there's also
[36:30] Speaker 2: that balance that our game has not changed in a
[36:33] Speaker 2: bad way. I think when people hear the word change,
[36:36] Speaker 2: they think, oh, that's not good, because cricket's been like
[36:39] Speaker 2: this for a hundred years. The fundamentals are still there,
[36:42] Speaker 2: the skills are still super important. You've got able to
[36:44] Speaker 2: make runs, you got about to take wickets. But it's evolved,
[36:48] Speaker 2: and I think that's I think that's a great thing
[36:50] Speaker 2: about life, you know, I think we're always learning, we're
[36:53] Speaker 2: always fining new things. Technology plays a massive part in
[36:56] Speaker 2: our sport now where you know, go back fifty years
[36:59] Speaker 2: and very little did technology play, Like are we using
[37:03] Speaker 2: a Nokia or were using the iPhone? Like that's sport's
[37:05] Speaker 2: no different.
[37:07] Speaker 1: And I guess also one of the things in cricken
[37:10] Speaker 1: particular is money. I mean, when you were living out
[37:14] Speaker 1: Liverpool and trying to go and play first grade or
[37:16] Speaker 1: whatever it was back and even in fifteen sixteen the
[37:20] Speaker 1: Doe wasn't around. There was money, but not like it
[37:22] Speaker 1: is now. So therefore the money attracts every athlete, every athlete,
[37:27] Speaker 1: and they're much more athletic. Well, I can tell you now.
[37:29] Speaker 2: I played at I think it was somewhere between seventy
[37:32] Speaker 2: four and seventy six kilos.
[37:35] Speaker 1: I'm eighty four.
[37:36] Speaker 2: Now on a good day, maybe in the morning, before
[37:38] Speaker 2: I've eaten any food. If I was playing now, i'd
[37:42] Speaker 2: want to be I'd want to be somewhere between. I'd
[37:45] Speaker 2: like to be as fit as I was cardio wise,
[37:48] Speaker 2: but I'd like to be stronger I'd want to be
[37:50] Speaker 2: somewhere between eighty two and eighty six kilos.
[37:52] Speaker 1: I think for the player, I was basically ten kellos
[37:55] Speaker 1: more to be.
[37:56] Speaker 2: Able to sustain three formats and to be able to
[37:59] Speaker 2: play form without injury, without form of about injury. But
[38:02] Speaker 2: I need the power. I need more power in T
[38:04] Speaker 2: twenty cricket. I need more power in one day cricket
[38:07] Speaker 2: than what I needed when I played. And that's I
[38:09] Speaker 2: give you my physical power, physical not just skill. I
[38:12] Speaker 2: need to hit more sixers, so that is timing, but
[38:15] Speaker 2: it's also power as well, because the ball I miss time,
[38:18] Speaker 2: I need that to go over long, off for long
[38:20] Speaker 2: on it's head. Where yes, there is still the skill
[38:23] Speaker 2: of hitting the ball along the ground, through cover and
[38:26] Speaker 2: point to get fours and running between the wickets, but
[38:29] Speaker 2: I also got to be able to transition from Test
[38:31] Speaker 2: cricket one day cricket to twenty twenty cricket. They are
[38:33] Speaker 2: they so different they are physically, especially for a bowler,
[38:38] Speaker 2: like you bowl twenty five overs in a day and
[38:39] Speaker 2: then you bowl four overs. It's a completely different fitness.
[38:43] Speaker 2: It's a different I think the mental skill in TEA
[38:45] Speaker 2: twenty cricket is phenomenal to be able to you know,
[38:48] Speaker 2: you've got to be able to come and on bowl
[38:49] Speaker 2: first over of the game. Go and stand on the
[38:51] Speaker 2: boundary and field, take a one hand to catch, throw it,
[38:54] Speaker 2: get a direct it run out. Now, come and bowl
[38:56] Speaker 2: over thirteen, sixteen and twenty Test crick it. You know,
[39:01] Speaker 2: I bowl eight overs, I get arrest, go to finally
[39:04] Speaker 2: get the chill out for a bit. Captain says, next over,
[39:06] Speaker 2: warm up, Okay, first over, I get back into it,
[39:08] Speaker 2: can bowl another four, five, six overs.
[39:10] Speaker 1: It's just a very very different skill. So the formats though,
[39:14] Speaker 1: we're driving the skills required definitely, and as a result
[39:18] Speaker 1: of the skills required and the money that that's attracting
[39:20] Speaker 1: the different types of let's call it body shapes and forms.
[39:23] Speaker 2: And different players like you see twenty twenty cricket guys
[39:26] Speaker 2: are batting virtually left hand right hand. They're turning around
[39:29] Speaker 2: and hitting bars the opposite direction to what they do.
[39:31] Speaker 2: Mad eh mate, For if I try that, I'm getting
[39:35] Speaker 2: out everything.
[39:36] Speaker 1: This is definitely ambidexterous. Let's call it one hundred percent well.
[39:38] Speaker 1: Batting one hand with hard enough for me. Batty right
[39:40] Speaker 1: hand was hard enough for me. So these guys.
[39:42] Speaker 2: If they're doing it in twenty twenty cricket, why wouldn't
[39:45] Speaker 2: they do it in one day cricket or Test cricket.
[39:48] Speaker 1: And that's what we're seeing.
[39:48] Speaker 2: Players have now got the courage to be able to
[39:50] Speaker 2: do that in Test cricket as well.
[39:52] Speaker 1: Now, what an old.
[39:54] Speaker 2: School player would say is say get yourself to forty
[39:57] Speaker 2: fifty sixty, then go for your life. Some players we're
[40:01] Speaker 2: seeing walk out and do it against an opening bowler
[40:04] Speaker 2: in the second over of a Test match, and that
[40:07] Speaker 2: is so different.
[40:07] Speaker 1: That courage is that courage.
[40:11] Speaker 2: It's courage if it works, But when it doesn't work,
[40:14] Speaker 2: we criticize it and say irresponsible and well they're not reckless.
[40:17] Speaker 1: Which is of my point. Before the younger players coming lead,
[40:21] Speaker 1: he would just say, Wow, he's killed it because he's
[40:23] Speaker 1: going to take those risks and he's done very well. Yeah,
[40:27] Speaker 1: or he took those risks and he cooped it, he's reckless.
[40:31] Speaker 1: I would say the balance.
[40:33] Speaker 2: I would say, one on one conversation with your captain
[40:37] Speaker 2: or a senior player to go, Okay, it hasn't worked.
[40:40] Speaker 2: It's worked once in five goes. What do you think
[40:43] Speaker 2: do you reckon? We can get to twenty before we
[40:44] Speaker 2: try that. But I'm not telling a player to stop
[40:49] Speaker 2: being themselves, to stop playing their natural game. If that
[40:51] Speaker 2: got you to playing for Australia, now we just mold
[40:54] Speaker 2: that to turn you into the best player you can
[40:56] Speaker 2: possibly be. But if you're playing for Australia, you're doing
[41:00] Speaker 2: something right. And I think to try and make try
[41:03] Speaker 2: and stop doing something sometimes is the worst. Like because
[41:07] Speaker 2: you're also muscle memory. You don't play for Australia when
[41:09] Speaker 2: you're six. You've trained from six years of age to
[41:12] Speaker 2: generally twenty four. If you're twenty two or twenty three,
[41:16] Speaker 2: when you're a youngster and you get picked someone like
[41:18] Speaker 2: Michael Hussi plays.
[41:19] Speaker 1: At thirty four.
[41:20] Speaker 2: Can you believe the amount of muscle memory he's built
[41:24] Speaker 2: to get to thirty four to make his testaboo? You
[41:26] Speaker 2: can't say change your game then, and even from six
[41:29] Speaker 2: to twenty one, you can't say change your game.
[41:31] Speaker 1: Then.
[41:31] Speaker 2: There's stuff that you learn as a kid, the skills,
[41:34] Speaker 2: the skills are learnt at a young age, but you
[41:37] Speaker 2: can mold your game. Your shot selections important, when to
[41:40] Speaker 2: do something, when to go, when to pull back, which
[41:43] Speaker 2: one to play, which under leave You know when to
[41:46] Speaker 2: take someone on, when to go down the wicket. Like
[41:48] Speaker 2: all these things are learning the art of the game,
[41:52] Speaker 2: which you do do generally when you're around the best
[41:55] Speaker 2: players because you watch them and learn from them, or
[41:58] Speaker 2: when you're out under pressure because you've got to make
[42:00] Speaker 2: those important decisions. But your actual skill, it's these players
[42:07] Speaker 2: are freakish. I honestly think today's cricketer does not get
[42:11] Speaker 2: enough credit. Man and woman. The females now.
[42:14] Speaker 1: Amazing mates on it, like, especially the strange males. The
[42:18] Speaker 1: skills are unbelievable.
[42:20] Speaker 2: And I think sometimes when you see players get out
[42:23] Speaker 2: in a way that we're not used to, you know,
[42:25] Speaker 2: reverse sweep early in the nings. But we're still Australia particularly,
[42:29] Speaker 2: we're still a little bit old school, which is nothing
[42:31] Speaker 2: wrong with that as well. I think I'm old school
[42:32] Speaker 2: values as well, but I think it'll just take a
[42:35] Speaker 2: bit of time for us to get to that next
[42:37] Speaker 2: stage we go.
[42:38] Speaker 1: Just part of the game these days definitely makes entertaining.
[42:40] Speaker 1: It's interesting. I was just listening to you, let's call
[42:44] Speaker 1: it issuing advice or talking about observations you made. You
[42:48] Speaker 1: were making a lot of observations about other people's skills
[42:50] Speaker 1: and you're sort of generously sharing those ideas, and that
[42:56] Speaker 1: sort of brings me to d Smith. You know, you've
[42:59] Speaker 1: been bigart of his career, great great play, great great
[43:03] Speaker 1: roosters support to against you and morning David Warner two
[43:09] Speaker 1: of the greatest crickets, both Ruster supporters. Now. But let's
[43:15] Speaker 1: talk about Steve during the during that difficult period. Did
[43:19] Speaker 1: you help him out? Did you talk to him?
[43:21] Speaker 2: I think for me it was it was a really
[43:23] Speaker 2: tough time for all three of the guys that were in. Actually,
[43:28] Speaker 2: it was a really tough time for everyone that was involved,
[43:30] Speaker 2: to be honest, but I think for the three guys,
[43:32] Speaker 2: particularly Smitty, Davy, Warner and Cam Bancroft, I think it
[43:36] Speaker 2: was an extremely he copped a tough sign personally, you
[43:40] Speaker 2: know what I think?
[43:41] Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, I think all three.
[43:43] Speaker 2: Of them copt their fair share, And to be honest,
[43:49] Speaker 2: I was super proud that all three copped it on
[43:53] Speaker 2: the chin. I think there's no doubt everyone can see
[43:55] Speaker 2: what happened and it and and again I think there's
[43:58] Speaker 2: a lot of things that are still kept in the house,
[44:00] Speaker 2: which I think is also part of playing a team sport.
[44:04] Speaker 2: That those players that were there, if they don't want
[44:06] Speaker 2: to talk about it, then I don't think it should
[44:08] Speaker 2: be spoken about that stays in house. I think you
[44:11] Speaker 2: do owe honesty to the fans because everybody watched the game,
[44:15] Speaker 2: saw it, and it's been replayed a million times. Extremely
[44:18] Speaker 2: tough on those three guys, heartbreaking to see the pain
[44:22] Speaker 2: they were going through. And again I am old school
[44:24] Speaker 2: in regards to you do the crime, you pay the time.
[44:27] Speaker 2: I get that, but I do love that they they
[44:31] Speaker 2: copt their medicine, took their suspension, took their fine, lost
[44:35] Speaker 2: the leadership, but then Australia forgave and gave them a
[44:38] Speaker 2: second chance.
[44:39] Speaker 1: And I think that for me, I think there's a
[44:42] Speaker 1: lot of there's a lot of people that are.
[44:44] Speaker 2: Dot a lot worse shit in this world that have
[44:47] Speaker 2: been given a second chance. And that was the one
[44:50] Speaker 2: thing for me that I like. I say, I'm not
[44:53] Speaker 2: taking anything away from what they did. I'm not making
[44:56] Speaker 2: that any lighter, any softer. We can't have that in
[44:59] Speaker 2: any sport, let alone in what I think is Australia's
[45:02] Speaker 2: greatest sport. So I'm okay with the tough punishment, but
[45:06] Speaker 2: I think it is a sport and they deserve to be.
[45:12] Speaker 1: They deserved a second chance, and I'm happy they got that.
[45:14] Speaker 1: And that's very strange too, by the way, everyone deserves
[45:16] Speaker 1: a second But.
[45:18] Speaker 2: Like, if my daughter makes a mistake, she's already made
[45:22] Speaker 2: a million, She's gonna make a million more. It's part
[45:24] Speaker 2: of my job as a dad to have a conversation forgive,
[45:29] Speaker 2: don't forget, make sure she's aware it's not acceptable, give
[45:32] Speaker 2: her another go.
[45:33] Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm saying.
[45:34] Speaker 2: I think maybe it's easy for me to say this
[45:36] Speaker 2: because I knew what I was like, you know, growing
[45:39] Speaker 2: up as a kid. I know all the stuff ups
[45:41] Speaker 2: I've made, and I've been given so many chances. So
[45:45] Speaker 2: that was the way I saw it speaking to them.
[45:48] Speaker 2: I think they'll aw very in very different places as well, because.
[45:52] Speaker 1: Different people, you know. I think.
[45:55] Speaker 2: I think how you take certain things is very much
[45:59] Speaker 2: around the individual. How you react and then how you
[46:05] Speaker 2: build the strength to to move on takes everyone different times.
[46:09] Speaker 2: And I think I think the other thing that we
[46:11] Speaker 2: probably saw was all three of them had had a
[46:14] Speaker 2: pretty strong foundation with whether it was family or friends.
[46:18] Speaker 2: Once they got back to Australia and their home state,
[46:21] Speaker 2: that played a significant role in getting them through. One
[46:26] Speaker 2: of the toughest periods of their life.
[46:27] Speaker 1: And let's talk about to Steve for a second. I mean,
[46:31] Speaker 1: what are his personality strengths sleeve? But what do you
[46:33] Speaker 1: see as you know him well? But he's a soft soul,
[46:36] Speaker 1: he Smitthy is a soft soul, and I thought.
[46:38] Speaker 2: As a David Warner, Yeah, yeah, very very different personalities,
[46:43] Speaker 2: very different. I think Smitty, you can't dislike Smitty. He's
[46:49] Speaker 2: a lovely guy. He's a super hard worker, he has
[46:52] Speaker 2: he has his own way of doing things.
[46:56] Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, he's a gentle soul for sure.
[46:59] Speaker 1: So there's no.
[47:00] Speaker 2: Doubt that that time would have been really tough for him.
[47:05] Speaker 1: Do they reach out? Do they reach and say mate,
[47:07] Speaker 1: I'm doing it tough for what happens during these Again,
[47:09] Speaker 1: I think that's up to the individual mark to be honest,
[47:12] Speaker 1: I think, do you reach out to him? And so
[47:13] Speaker 1: how you going? Oh?
[47:14] Speaker 2: I think yeah, it's not hard to send a message
[47:16] Speaker 2: to check in that you know, I'm thinking of you.
[47:19] Speaker 1: But again, some people mightn't.
[47:21] Speaker 2: Like I've had a lot of mates that you know,
[47:24] Speaker 2: over a period of time, they you know, with stuff
[47:26] Speaker 2: that's happened to me, they were unsure whether how would
[47:30] Speaker 2: come across.
[47:30] Speaker 1: How would feel them reaching out?
[47:32] Speaker 2: And then afterwards you catch up and see each and
[47:33] Speaker 2: they go, mate, I should have just they say, I
[47:35] Speaker 2: should have just sent you a message, But you understand
[47:37] Speaker 2: everyone's different, and I think for something like that as well,
[47:42] Speaker 2: it affected the cricketing community, the Australian cricketing community. I'm
[47:47] Speaker 2: talking past players, I'm talking players that are playing state cricket,
[47:50] Speaker 2: club cricket. I think everybody was sort of dealing with
[47:54] Speaker 2: what they were seeing at that time as well. But yeah,
[47:59] Speaker 2: I think think we should do that more. Though one
[48:02] Speaker 2: hundred per as rich out.
[48:03] Speaker 1: I think so.
[48:04] Speaker 2: As a male, I think it's our greatest weakness.
[48:07] Speaker 1: You know.
[48:08] Speaker 2: I think women are brilliant communicating. We've come a long way,
[48:12] Speaker 2: but I still think we're nowhere near good enoughort sticking
[48:15] Speaker 2: a hand out and just saying I'm here if you
[48:17] Speaker 2: need something.
[48:17] Speaker 1: You're talking earlier on about training in the nets and
[48:21] Speaker 1: ducking to avoid bounces. Do you mind if I just
[48:23] Speaker 1: touch on your great mate who got hit with the bounces? Yeah, yeah,
[48:27] Speaker 1: tough one. When that happened, What did you what did
[48:31] Speaker 1: you feel in here?
[48:33] Speaker 2: I think you know the answer to that. I still
[48:35] Speaker 2: get emotional talking about it still. I think it's I
[48:44] Speaker 2: think you, like anytime someone passes, I think I think
[48:52] Speaker 2: the perception is it gets easier. I don't know, I
[48:56] Speaker 2: don't know if that's the case.
[48:57] Speaker 1: You don't really heal from it, maybe learn from it.
[49:01] Speaker 1: I think you.
[49:02] Speaker 2: I think I think you find ways to deal with
[49:05] Speaker 2: it in that moment, like today, in this, in this interview,
[49:10] Speaker 2: I give you this happening.
[49:11] Speaker 1: Two years ago. I don't know if I can even
[49:13] Speaker 1: speak about it, you know what I mean.
[49:15] Speaker 2: So I think you slowly try and manage the situation,
[49:19] Speaker 2: the feelings as much as you can. But yeah, it's devastating,
[49:23] Speaker 2: you know, it's it's he was a young man, full
[49:26] Speaker 2: of talents and yeah, even my brain now, I don't
[49:30] Speaker 2: even think about the cricket side of things.
[49:32] Speaker 1: Just think about, you know who we lost as a person.
[49:36] Speaker 2: More than he would have played one hundred Test matches,
[49:39] Speaker 2: he would have had a ten year career, at least,
[49:41] Speaker 2: at least he would have been I think it would
[49:43] Speaker 2: have been one of our best opening batters that we had. Also,
[49:46] Speaker 2: I'm emotionally attached. I'm saying that no matter what you know,
[49:50] Speaker 2: but that's how I saw him as a player.
[49:52] Speaker 1: But it's more who he was as a man. It's interesting.
[49:56] Speaker 1: I was just thinking about your era. I'm apart from
[49:59] Speaker 1: having a lot of a lot of scalley wags of
[50:01] Speaker 1: unbelievable skill, but an unbelievable big personalities. Three people you
[50:07] Speaker 1: play with have passed andrews Hoimer's Shane worn Phil.
[50:12] Speaker 2: And my mentor growing up as a kid Rod Marsh
[50:15] Speaker 2: as well past just before the day before Warning.
[50:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's but that's that seems to be
[50:21] Speaker 1: a lot. I know, I can't see. I can't say
[50:25] Speaker 1: that in terms of rugby league groups that I know,
[50:27] Speaker 1: that's a lot coming out of one group. Yeah, one
[50:31] Speaker 1: group of mates. Devastating.
[50:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Jusy didn't play with Warning or Simo, but
[50:38] Speaker 2: obviously knew them like Morning Morning and Hughsey were good friends,
[50:42] Speaker 2: were good friends. Warnie come to South Africa as our
[50:45] Speaker 2: I don't even know what he was bowling coach mentor
[50:48] Speaker 2: party manager and he was on that tour. He was
[50:51] Speaker 2: in the squad but didn't play. So yeah, they become
[50:55] Speaker 2: great friends.
[50:56] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[50:56] Speaker 2: Look, it's devastating, mate, and I think I think that
[50:59] Speaker 2: is a part of sport as well.
[51:00] Speaker 1: Like you, we all go our own ways.
[51:03] Speaker 2: We've all got our different lives and you have kids
[51:05] Speaker 2: and families and you move on and you don't see
[51:08] Speaker 2: each other as much and you probably don't talk as
[51:10] Speaker 2: much as you should on the phone. But I think
[51:12] Speaker 2: I think your remain a distant family like you're stellar family.
[51:17] Speaker 2: Anybody that's played, look I've got I'm the three hundred
[51:19] Speaker 2: and eighty ninth player to play for Australia. It's scarred
[51:22] Speaker 2: on my body. That means something to me. And I'd
[51:28] Speaker 2: be surprised if you went and spoke to someone that
[51:31] Speaker 2: is ninety years of age that played for Australia if
[51:35] Speaker 2: they don't know what number player they are for Australia.
[51:37] Speaker 2: I think it's that important.
[51:39] Speaker 1: Nine. It's three eady nine. Good bottle of wine too?
[51:41] Speaker 1: Can I just can I ask you before we rap,
[51:44] Speaker 1: because it's important for me that game and I think
[51:46] Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to know this too. You've been pretty
[51:49] Speaker 1: successful and everything you've done. They tell me you've got
[51:51] Speaker 1: your lunch money and I'm a saver. My mum will
[51:55] Speaker 1: at the bank for thirty years. You've got to still
[51:58] Speaker 1: got to lunch money and you each dollar's got a name.
[52:01] Speaker 2: No, I'm the least Titus person. I'm brag about myself
[52:07] Speaker 2: about one thing.
[52:08] Speaker 1: I'm generous. I'm a good spenders. No one has said
[52:12] Speaker 1: to not generous. You know where everything's gone, you know,
[52:15] Speaker 1: you know which direction, which street is all gone to.
[52:18] Speaker 1: But you've done wealthy. You have done wealth yourself in
[52:20] Speaker 1: the financial sense. And what are you doing now? What's
[52:23] Speaker 1: what's my club doing now? With like post cricket, I've
[52:25] Speaker 1: got my own podcast twenty three beyond twenty three, I
[52:28] Speaker 1: do yep, and we're out of able Spotify YouTube, Spotify, yep,
[52:33] Speaker 1: I do.
[52:34] Speaker 2: I do a little bit of commentary overseas. Really, in
[52:37] Speaker 2: regards to money, my stuff's basically still in property. I
[52:40] Speaker 2: think it always has been. I've always invested in residential property.
[52:44] Speaker 2: Again different in different ways as well. Like when I
[52:48] Speaker 2: was playing, there was a lot more investment properties. Now
[52:50] Speaker 2: I'm you know, it's more home I live in different
[52:54] Speaker 2: sort of investments. But I think really my focus has been,
[53:00] Speaker 2: you know, ambassador for a handful of companies, a tiny
[53:04] Speaker 2: bit of commentary overseas in our winter because I want
[53:06] Speaker 2: to spend this summer with my daughter as well on
[53:09] Speaker 2: her school holidays in Australia. And then my podcast is
[53:12] Speaker 2: something that I've really fallen into and absolutely love, so
[53:15] Speaker 2: that creates my cash flow and then I invest in property.
[53:19] Speaker 1: You mentioned on a number of occasions, and if we
[53:21] Speaker 1: just don't mind just touching your private life. You have
[53:25] Speaker 1: had a listening of ex partners and a lot of
[53:31] Speaker 1: us received a lot of press. I have met your
[53:34] Speaker 1: current partner Arabella Jeff sixtieth I think it was Jeff
[53:37] Speaker 1: sixty out and she's over filming stuff and taking photographs.
[53:41] Speaker 1: And you've been talking about your daughter a lot today.
[53:45] Speaker 1: And what is it about those two people that keep
[53:51] Speaker 1: you different at your age today compared to say, when
[53:55] Speaker 1: you and are not here for you to come home?
[53:57] Speaker 1: On your previous partners, I'm not asking that. What is
[54:00] Speaker 1: it about the stability that you get out of those
[54:03] Speaker 1: two people in particular that help you be Michael Clark
[54:08] Speaker 1: today compared to who you were? Well, I've said it before.
[54:12] Speaker 1: They both softened me, so but have they softened you?
[54:15] Speaker 1: Have you seen something in them that made you soften yourself?
[54:18] Speaker 2: Maybe I'd like to say combination, but I think or
[54:21] Speaker 2: is it just maturity?
[54:23] Speaker 1: It could be that as well.
[54:24] Speaker 2: I'd like to say that as well, that's probably a
[54:28] Speaker 2: question more for those two. I think from my side,
[54:31] Speaker 2: I think I've always been super comfortable around females. I'm
[54:36] Speaker 2: super close to my mum. I've spoken already about my sister. Yeah,
[54:39] Speaker 2: my daughter is that's interesting.
[54:41] Speaker 1: Well there's three, there's three there and there's there's one net. Yeah,
[54:46] Speaker 1: so that's very interesting. Like you think women you get
[54:50] Speaker 1: on better with women, strong women in your life, or
[54:54] Speaker 1: balance women in your life.
[54:55] Speaker 2: I think I've always had women in my life, you know,
[54:58] Speaker 2: I think they've played a big role still do I think,
[55:02] Speaker 2: and I think it is. I think it's the you know,
[55:05] Speaker 2: I think there's I think there's a balance of you know,
[55:08] Speaker 2: being around your mate is a great feeling. I think
[55:11] Speaker 2: we all have that talk and footy, talking, cricket, having
[55:14] Speaker 2: to drink whatever it is. But I think, you know,
[55:17] Speaker 2: I also enjoy like there's nothing I don't do without
[55:20] Speaker 2: my current partner, without Arabella.
[55:22] Speaker 1: That's funny. Is Fenice the biggest, the same He's got
[55:25] Speaker 1: the two daughters, and he's got and he's got his
[55:28] Speaker 1: missus and they they go. He goes everywhere with him.
[55:32] Speaker 1: I saw him Vegas last week, likes and and one
[55:35] Speaker 1: of the daughters because she was over there with her
[55:38] Speaker 1: partner place Newcastle. But and they're actually funny enough. They've
[55:41] Speaker 1: got a granddaughter. Yeah, so now what's there's there's two
[55:48] Speaker 1: complete Alaricans, Australian Alaricans completely. You know, you are great sportsman,
[55:53] Speaker 1: some of the best best in the world, you know
[55:55] Speaker 1: in a long term sense. Yet you have these women
[56:01] Speaker 1: who form a huge party of life.
[56:05] Speaker 2: Maybe they keep our feet on the ground as well,
[56:07] Speaker 2: Like I think for me, like I'm very lucky, like
[56:10] Speaker 2: Bella is. Bella is brilliant at socializing, like I mean, brilliant.
[56:17] Speaker 2: She gets on with everyone. Yeah, you know, I'm still
[56:22] Speaker 2: I'm still Like I'll sit back. She'll bring that out
[56:25] Speaker 2: of me. I will say, they don't really want to
[56:27] Speaker 2: go here. She'll say, I think it's good.
[56:29] Speaker 1: We go. It's funny. Yeah I am. That's me man,
[56:33] Speaker 1: Like I'm hopeless. Yeah I don't. I don't really.
[56:35] Speaker 2: I'm a homebody, Like I don't mind my mates or
[56:39] Speaker 2: our friends coming to our house where we stay.
[56:42] Speaker 1: But as long as you know who they are and
[56:43] Speaker 1: it's controlled. But it's in my environment, you know what
[56:46] Speaker 1: I mean.
[56:46] Speaker 2: So I think I also think she can you know,
[56:49] Speaker 2: she brings that out of me, which is good.
[56:51] Speaker 1: Otherwise I'd never leave the house. But what do you think?
[56:53] Speaker 1: What do you what do you get from that by
[56:54] Speaker 1: going out?
[56:55] Speaker 2: For example, it's outside your comfort zone and you get
[56:58] Speaker 2: to meet new people because you feel safe a hundred
[57:02] Speaker 2: The main thing Also for me if I if I'm
[57:05] Speaker 2: to step outside with a group of mates and it
[57:09] Speaker 2: becomes midnight, for example, and then someone takes a photo
[57:12] Speaker 2: of me getting a drink at a bar, which and
[57:14] Speaker 2: I'm only talking about this because I've experienced it. As
[57:16] Speaker 2: soon as the lady behind the bar gives me the drink,
[57:18] Speaker 2: someone takes a photo. Oh, this lady's holding hands with Michael.
[57:21] Speaker 2: Like if I've got my partner there. Everything's right in
[57:24] Speaker 2: front of them as well, So it takes out any
[57:26] Speaker 2: sort of risk of that. But that's not why we
[57:29] Speaker 2: go out together. I think I love her company, I
[57:32] Speaker 2: love the conversation. I love her friend group are awesome.
[57:37] Speaker 2: I think she brings like I say, she probably brings
[57:40] Speaker 2: me out of my shell a little bit as well,
[57:43] Speaker 2: like my daughter does. You have to go to stuff
[57:44] Speaker 2: with your daughter.
[57:45] Speaker 1: You have to go.
[57:46] Speaker 2: I'm at cross country last week, I'm at the swimming
[57:48] Speaker 2: carnival Limet. You know, father's day breakfast you're at you know,
[57:52] Speaker 2: Christmas stuff that it's not I don't really want to go,
[57:59] Speaker 2: but my daughter does.
[58:00] Speaker 1: My daughters I'm going, you know, and you've got to
[58:03] Speaker 1: show you're enjoying it one hundred percent because she will notice.
[58:07] Speaker 1: That's for sure, my daughter will notice. So I don't know.
[58:10] Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think it's the comfort being around
[58:13] Speaker 2: women has always been there for me as well, Like
[58:15] Speaker 2: I don't feel I don't have to change. I've always
[58:18] Speaker 2: got on well with women, and I've always felt comfortable.
[58:20] Speaker 1: It's interesting, like a female is. I think is really
[58:24] Speaker 1: important to give me, definitely successful people balance because your
[58:30] Speaker 1: world is very male. You're in a male cricket side
[58:33] Speaker 1: and you're hanging out with males and you're living, traveling
[58:37] Speaker 1: in the world with them, and you're in each other.
[58:40] Speaker 1: You're sharing a room probably, you know, Like I don't
[58:42] Speaker 1: know if you say when I started, when I.
[58:44] Speaker 2: Was, when I first started playing first Class screen, Yeah,
[58:47] Speaker 2: you'd bunk in together, you sho As time went on,
[58:49] Speaker 2: you ate your own room.
[58:50] Speaker 1: But captain gets his own room. Captain gets his own room. Yes.
[58:52] Speaker 1: One of the benefits as.
[58:55] Speaker 2: You get older, you should get your own especial when
[58:57] Speaker 2: you're a parent as well, you want to have your
[58:58] Speaker 2: own room.
[58:59] Speaker 1: You're that's for sure. They're talking to your daughter and
[59:01] Speaker 1: your teammates ninety once ago to a night club.
[59:03] Speaker 2: I think you should be in different rooms. The other thing,
[59:06] Speaker 2: I've always felt this as well. I've always felt I could,
[59:11] Speaker 2: I could buy myself a house, but I've always felt it's.
[59:14] Speaker 1: Become a home with the woman in it. That's interesting.
[59:17] Speaker 2: I've always forgot maybe because my styling is very male
[59:22] Speaker 2: dominated and the woman has just the woman has always softened,
[59:26] Speaker 2: brings warm my home and softened me.
[59:29] Speaker 1: Yeah. I really appreciate your honesty because I mean not
[59:32] Speaker 1: many people get to see that about Michael Clark. I
[59:34] Speaker 1: mean we sort of put you up here as a
[59:36] Speaker 1: great sports person, you know, achieve great things. A bit
[59:39] Speaker 1: of controversy, which, by the way, I don't mind the
[59:41] Speaker 1: controversy that I think controversy surrounds most people who's success
[59:44] Speaker 1: for one way or the other. None of us are perfect.
[59:47] Speaker 1: I know that no one's None of us are perfect,
[59:49] Speaker 1: and some of it just a little less imperfect than others.
[59:51] Speaker 1: But we're all imperfect, that's for sure. But I appreciate
[59:55] Speaker 1: your honesty and your frankness and congratulations made to it.
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: A bullying cree, a brilliant, creaking cree. Thank you for
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: having me, Matte. I really appreciate it. Thanks Matte, Thanks Mark,

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.