# Communication Expert: The 4 Psychological Drivers Behind All Self-Doubt

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 19 Jul 2026, 1 h 04 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/730b6b55-9402-4343-88e1-b4800051ce60/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Most people think self-doubt is the problem. Dr. Shadé Zahrai says it's not... it's what's underneath it. In this episode we sit down with communication expert and PhD researcher Dr. Shadé Zahrai to unpack the four psychological drivers that either fuel your self-doubt or build what she calls "Big Trust." This isn't therapy-speak, it's research-backed, practical, and built for people who are already doing the work but can't figure out why they keep getting in their own way. Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Doctor Chadai Zarai, Welcome to straight Talk.
[0:03] Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
[0:04] Speaker 1: You or I were doing something for Amazon this week,
[0:06] Speaker 1: and you're a communication expert.
[0:08] Speaker 2: Yes, And actually what I was speaking about is what
[0:10] Speaker 2: happens before we communicate, which is whether we trust ourselves
[0:14] Speaker 2: to communicate or not. So it's really around attention and
[0:16] Speaker 2: self doubt and self trust, which are the precursors to
[0:20] Speaker 2: whether we use our voice and how we use our voice.
[0:23] Speaker 2: And that's my whole area of expertise. And I find
[0:26] Speaker 2: it fascinating.
[0:27] Speaker 1: What do you mean if we use our voice and
[0:30] Speaker 1: how we use our voice? Do you mean are you
[0:33] Speaker 1: talking about tom tone, language, speed, etc. Or just speaking
[0:39] Speaker 1: as opposed to not speaking. In other words, I decide
[0:42] Speaker 1: not to speak, I sit back in the room. We
[0:46] Speaker 1: need all of it.
[0:48] Speaker 2: Because how we view our voice, whether we feel like
[0:51] Speaker 2: our voice has value, whether we feel like we have value,
[0:53] Speaker 2: whether we feel like we belong in the room, deserve
[0:55] Speaker 2: to be there. That firstly shapes whether we speak or
[0:59] Speaker 2: whether we hold back and tell ourselves our idea is
[1:01] Speaker 2: dumb and we have nothing valuable to say. But it
[1:04] Speaker 2: also shapes if we do choose to speak. It shapes
[1:07] Speaker 2: how we speak the words that we choose, the tone
[1:10] Speaker 2: that we have, the way that we are conveying the message,
[1:14] Speaker 2: and then that influences how people perceive us. And that's
[1:18] Speaker 2: why when you strip it all back, you can learn
[1:21] Speaker 2: the tools and the techniques, But if you don't fundamentally
[1:24] Speaker 2: believe in yourself and trust that you deserve to be there,
[1:28] Speaker 2: in your values or your message has value, you're not
[1:31] Speaker 2: going to be able to convey it. And that's why
[1:33] Speaker 2: when we talk about communication, Yes, there is the part
[1:36] Speaker 2: people see, but then there's everything that's going on inside,
[1:39] Speaker 2: and we have to get these two right otherwise nothing works.
[1:43] Speaker 1: Can we fake it? I mean, let's say we don't
[1:45] Speaker 1: feel like we deserve to be there, or we lack
[1:47] Speaker 1: a bit of confidence, but we we've performed so often
[1:52] Speaker 1: so for so long that we can fake our way
[1:56] Speaker 1: through it.
[1:57] Speaker 2: If you trust yourself, okay, to be out of it,
[2:00] Speaker 2: to be able to fake it, okay. So let me
[2:01] Speaker 2: ask you this, Mike, what would you say is the opposite.
[2:04] Speaker 1: Of self doubt self confidence? Confidence?
[2:07] Speaker 2: This is what we find when we ask people on
[2:09] Speaker 2: the street, when we run our workshops or audiences. Ninety
[2:11] Speaker 2: five percent of them will say confidence, and they are
[2:14] Speaker 2: confident in that response when we look at the data,
[2:17] Speaker 2: when we really interrogate what this feeling of confidence is,
[2:21] Speaker 2: it's a feeling of readiness and certainty. So people think
[2:25] Speaker 2: then that they must feel ready and certain before they
[2:27] Speaker 2: do something, because that's what it means to be confident,
[2:30] Speaker 2: and I have to be confident first. But when we
[2:32] Speaker 2: strip it away, that feeling of readiness and real confidence
[2:35] Speaker 2: comes after you've done the thing, not before it. It's
[2:39] Speaker 2: called self efficacy. When you do the thing, your brain
[2:42] Speaker 2: gets evidence that I can do this thing, affirmation, affirmation,
[2:45] Speaker 2: and then you have the proof and that builds your
[2:48] Speaker 2: self efficacy, which makes you more likely to want to
[2:50] Speaker 2: do it again. That's how you build true, lasting confidence.
[2:53] Speaker 2: But if confidence comes after, something else needs to come first,
[2:57] Speaker 2: and it's actually self trust. It's trusting that you have
[3:02] Speaker 2: the worthiness, the capability, you can handle what comes your way,
[3:06] Speaker 2: you can manage the emotions that are going to come
[3:08] Speaker 2: with it. And it's also acknowledging that there's a lot
[3:11] Speaker 2: of uncertainty. We don't know how things will go, we
[3:13] Speaker 2: don't know how we'll be perceived or how the message
[3:15] Speaker 2: will land. But if you trust yourself first, you will
[3:18] Speaker 2: do the thing. You will speak up, you will fake
[3:21] Speaker 2: your way into it, which then gives you the proof point,
[3:24] Speaker 2: Hey I.
[3:24] Speaker 1: Did it, so it's insertain you. So the proof point
[3:27] Speaker 1: is happening as you're speaking.
[3:28] Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, So as you're speaking, that's your proof point.
[3:32] Speaker 2: That's your brain's evidence of, hey, I felt uncertain, I
[3:35] Speaker 2: did it. Anyway, I can do it again. And then
[3:38] Speaker 2: that becomes this self perpetuating repeating cycle.
[3:41] Speaker 1: What about feedback loops in terms of people's responses. So
[3:45] Speaker 1: let's say I'm in a room with ten of you,
[3:49] Speaker 1: and if and I'm feeling like a little a little
[3:55] Speaker 1: behind the april, I'm not sure if I'm equivalent to you,
[3:58] Speaker 1: all of you, and then something comes up and is
[4:02] Speaker 1: my time to respond or interact and do am? I sure?
[4:08] Speaker 1: I'd be looking around the room, seeing what people are
[4:10] Speaker 1: thinking about what I'm saying, or should not give a
[4:11] Speaker 1: stuff about it, and maybe look past them.
[4:13] Speaker 2: It depends where you are on your self trust journey.
[4:16] Speaker 2: If you're struggling with self trust, it means that you're
[4:19] Speaker 2: going to be outsourcing your worth, so how people respond
[4:23] Speaker 2: to you. If you struggle with self trust, you outsource
[4:26] Speaker 2: your worth, So your value is determined by how people respond,
[4:31] Speaker 2: which also makes you a people pleaser. It makes you
[4:34] Speaker 2: more likely to say yes when you really want to
[4:35] Speaker 2: say no. And so what you'll be doing is gauging
[4:39] Speaker 2: how you're going based on whether other people are responding well.
[4:43] Speaker 2: And then if someone looks at their phone or someone
[4:45] Speaker 2: looks like they're not interested, you will internalize that. Take
[4:48] Speaker 2: that personally, and it'll throw you off your game. So,
[4:51] Speaker 2: if you know that you're struggling with self trust, look
[4:53] Speaker 2: past the people, look at their eyebrows, look somewhere else.
[4:58] Speaker 2: That at least gives you the proof point of hey,
[4:59] Speaker 2: I can this. I'm getting the evidence. I'm building my
[5:02] Speaker 2: self efficacy, I'm building the confidence as you go on
[5:05] Speaker 2: that journey and you become more confident. Then the highest
[5:12] Speaker 2: performing communicators, those with the greatest skill, they're constantly reading
[5:16] Speaker 2: their audience. They know that if they go in there
[5:20] Speaker 2: and they're trying a message and they see, you know what,
[5:21] Speaker 2: this is not landing. They pivot there and then they
[5:24] Speaker 2: ask a question, they take a break, they tell someone,
[5:27] Speaker 2: they make a joke that you know, when we look
[5:29] Speaker 2: at communicators on stages, keynote speakers, the most charismatic people
[5:35] Speaker 2: they're in conversation with their audience, even if they're the
[5:37] Speaker 2: only one speaking, and it's because they have built so
[5:40] Speaker 2: much self trust, which has earned confidence as well, because
[5:43] Speaker 2: they've done it so many times where they can have
[5:45] Speaker 2: that back and forth.
[5:46] Speaker 1: Is there an arrogance in self trust?
[5:49] Speaker 2: There is a risk arrogance, There is a risk. So, okay,
[5:52] Speaker 2: can we let's deep dive into self trust because this
[5:55] Speaker 2: is the essence of my work, my research. Have just
[5:57] Speaker 2: finished a pH d in this area. Self trust sounds
[6:00] Speaker 2: very fluffy. We know it's the opposite of self doubt.
[6:03] Speaker 2: But when we drill down, there are four drivers of
[6:07] Speaker 2: self trust, which means there are four drivers that give
[6:11] Speaker 2: you a kind of protection against self doubt. The first
[6:14] Speaker 2: one is self acceptance. Do you fundamentally accept yourself? If
[6:19] Speaker 2: you do, then you feel like you're enough?
[6:21] Speaker 1: Do I say, am I being truthful? Am I being honest?
[6:26] Speaker 1: To have I done the work in relation to the
[6:29] Speaker 1: subject matter topic? But what are the variables?
[6:32] Speaker 2: The specifics here? There are four weight well, so let's
[6:36] Speaker 2: look at how it shows up when you don't have it,
[6:38] Speaker 2: because that'll help us understand what it really means. The
[6:40] Speaker 2: first one is the pressure to prove. You don't feel
[6:43] Speaker 2: like you're enough, so you feel like you have to
[6:45] Speaker 2: prove yourself through achievement, through setting a goal and reaching
[6:49] Speaker 2: the goal, and through being better than everyone else, and
[6:53] Speaker 2: you get there. A lot of people do get there,
[6:55] Speaker 2: but then they don't feel the satisfaction that's supposed to
[6:57] Speaker 2: come with it, so then they set the next goal
[6:59] Speaker 2: and the next goal. A lot of highly driven entrepreneurs
[7:01] Speaker 2: find themselves in this space.
[7:03] Speaker 1: They from imposter syndrome completely completely.
[7:05] Speaker 2: So that's our first pillar there. The second way this
[7:08] Speaker 2: shows up is the likability trap because you don't likability trap, yes,
[7:13] Speaker 2: the likability trap, because you don't feel like you're enough.
[7:17] Speaker 2: You want other people to like you because if they
[7:20] Speaker 2: like you, then you can like yourself. So this is
[7:23] Speaker 2: that people please be territory. You're going above and beyond
[7:28] Speaker 2: for everybody because then again, if they validate you, you
[7:31] Speaker 2: feel a little better about yourself. But you end up
[7:34] Speaker 2: sacrificing what you want to need. You end up exhausted
[7:38] Speaker 2: and you're not really addressing the real root of that.
[7:40] Speaker 1: You're un efficient too, yes, completely.
[7:43] Speaker 2: Third is the shrinking syndrome. Shrinking syndrome, So this is
[7:46] Speaker 2: where you have someone who struggles with the self acceptance
[7:51] Speaker 2: piece to such an extent that if an amazing opportunity
[7:54] Speaker 2: comes their way, they make an excuse, I'm not ready,
[7:58] Speaker 2: it's not the right time, because they're worried that if
[8:00] Speaker 2: they say yes and it doesn't work out or they fail,
[8:04] Speaker 2: then they will take that personally and they'll see it
[8:06] Speaker 2: as evidence that I am a failure. It will confirm
[8:09] Speaker 2: the deep belief that I already have that I'm not enough,
[8:12] Speaker 2: So they make excuses. And then the fourth one is
[8:14] Speaker 2: really interesting. It's called the Chaudon Floyda cycle. It's a
[8:17] Speaker 2: German term, and this is where you find pleasure in
[8:23] Speaker 2: other people's failures. So you enjoy hearing stories of how
[8:28] Speaker 2: other people have messed up because it makes you feel
[8:30] Speaker 2: a little bit better about yourself. Because if you don't
[8:33] Speaker 2: accept yourself, you want to see others fail too. So
[8:36] Speaker 2: this is what drives a lot of bullying behavior. It's
[8:39] Speaker 2: what drives a lot of click baity headlines. A lot
[8:41] Speaker 2: of people who consume clickbaity headlines struggle with self acceptance.
[8:45] Speaker 2: It's a way of distracting themselves from what's going on
[8:48] Speaker 2: for them. So you can see how if you have
[8:51] Speaker 2: any of these things. If you don't feel like you're enough,
[8:54] Speaker 2: you're going to doubt whether your voice is worth listening to,
[8:58] Speaker 2: whether you have anything valuable to share. It's even going
[9:02] Speaker 2: to affect how you share what you want to share.
[9:04] Speaker 2: You might hesitate, you might use a lot of softeners,
[9:07] Speaker 2: like this might be a dumb idea. I heard them,
[9:10] Speaker 2: I haven't really thought this through. You're discounting yourself before
[9:13] Speaker 2: you've said anything.
[9:14] Speaker 1: Weople say that, and I've heard people say.
[9:16] Speaker 2: And a lot of the time when it's repeated and chronic,
[9:19] Speaker 2: it's because of a lack of self acceptance. We hear
[9:22] Speaker 2: a lot of just oh, I just want to check in,
[9:23] Speaker 2: just asking, just want to see not helpful at all.
[9:29] Speaker 2: So we see a lot of these common patterns when
[9:31] Speaker 2: it comes to a lack of acceptance. That's the first
[9:33] Speaker 2: driver of self doubt, a lack of acceptance. The second
[9:37] Speaker 2: one is what we call agency, which is really simple.
[9:41] Speaker 2: It's just can I do this thing? Do I believe
[9:43] Speaker 2: that I have the skills, the resources, the talent to learn.
[9:47] Speaker 2: Can I do it? So the psychology term is self efficacy,
[9:51] Speaker 2: that internal belief that yes, I've got this or I'll
[9:54] Speaker 2: figure it out, even if I don't have the skills, now,
[9:57] Speaker 2: I'll figure it out. That's our second one. This is
[10:00] Speaker 2: where imposter syndrome comes in, feeling like you're not deserving
[10:04] Speaker 2: to be where you are. So you've achieved some things
[10:06] Speaker 2: in the past, and yet you feel like you really
[10:09] Speaker 2: don't deserve the success you've had, and you're worried that
[10:13] Speaker 2: at any point someone will discover that you don't belong
[10:17] Speaker 2: there and you'll be found out as the fraud that
[10:20] Speaker 2: you are. So you either overcompensate and do everything for
[10:24] Speaker 2: everybody and take on more and feel like you must
[10:26] Speaker 2: keep pushing, or you just don't even try, because if
[10:30] Speaker 2: you don't try, you can't fail. People can't discover that
[10:32] Speaker 2: you don't deserve to be there. We also see a
[10:35] Speaker 2: lot of comparison, constantly comparing yourself to everyone who's ahead
[10:40] Speaker 2: of you, and then again finding excuses as to why
[10:43] Speaker 2: you'll never be as good as them, you'll never be
[10:46] Speaker 2: as successful as them. Everyone is further ahead. I can't
[10:49] Speaker 2: do it. And there's another one here. It's the I'm
[10:52] Speaker 2: going to wait until I'm ready, excuse I'm already yet,
[10:55] Speaker 2: I'm not ready yet. Oh it's the worst, and it
[10:59] Speaker 2: destroys people's chances of success and their chances of getting
[11:03] Speaker 2: better because you're making up an excuse of oh no,
[11:07] Speaker 2: I will know when I feel ready. And so you
[11:10] Speaker 2: keep doing the research and the preparation and you keep
[11:12] Speaker 2: talking to people and you never jump. And I love, actually, Mark,
[11:16] Speaker 2: I love the way that you talk about a lot
[11:17] Speaker 2: of the areas of self doubt and self trust because
[11:21] Speaker 2: it's so pragmatic. It's so pragmatic, and you've very much
[11:24] Speaker 2: lived your life believing that Okay, yeah, you might have
[11:28] Speaker 2: self doubt, but just do the thing anyway, validate yourself,
[11:31] Speaker 2: don't wait for other people, just try because that is
[11:34] Speaker 2: how you learn. And you will never succeed unless you try.
[11:37] Speaker 2: And so this is much, very much part of your message,
[11:40] Speaker 2: which is brilliant because it aligns so beautifully with what
[11:43] Speaker 2: the research is telling us. So they're our first two
[11:46] Speaker 2: drivers of self doubt, right, lack of acceptance lack of agency.
[11:50] Speaker 2: The third one is really interesting.
[11:52] Speaker 1: So Mark, and anyone, of course, the agency, do you
[11:57] Speaker 1: have to purposely give yourself the agency. You have to
[12:01] Speaker 1: say I'm going to give myself the agency on this
[12:05] Speaker 1: and just on lack of acceptance self acceptance, do you
[12:10] Speaker 1: have to. I mean, these are issues, problems, but I
[12:13] Speaker 1: presume the solutions are Mark except who you are, maybe
[12:18] Speaker 1: even write it out, except who you are says self acceptances.
[12:22] Speaker 1: That's the deal, and Mark You've got to take agency.
[12:25] Speaker 1: You've got to control it yourself. Is that what you
[12:28] Speaker 1: would say to those first two?
[12:30] Speaker 2: Yes?
[12:30] Speaker 1: Is that the way around it? Yeah?
[12:32] Speaker 2: I mean at a high level, absolutely, you know, like
[12:33] Speaker 2: except who you are, give yourself the agency. But then
[12:36] Speaker 2: the question is what does that even mean? What does
[12:37] Speaker 2: that mean? Like that, it's complicated, it's complicated, and of
[12:40] Speaker 2: course that's why we wrote the book to go into
[12:42] Speaker 2: much more detail with all of the different tools.
[12:44] Speaker 1: That's a big trust, big trust.
[12:46] Speaker 2: So it's the ultimate state of self trust. You don't
[12:48] Speaker 2: need to eliminate the doubt, you don't need to feel ready.
[12:51] Speaker 2: You just build big trust with these four attributes and
[12:54] Speaker 2: it allows you to move forward.
[12:55] Speaker 1: So let's get what's a third one?
[12:56] Speaker 2: Well, let me give you something. We're doing it all right.
[13:01] Speaker 2: So if you've noticed that you do struggle with self acceptance,
[13:03] Speaker 2: which is very common with anyone starting anything new, very common. Okay,
[13:07] Speaker 2: so this one shows up a lot with people who
[13:10] Speaker 2: are succeeding, because what happens is every time you succeed,
[13:14] Speaker 2: your circle changes. And what I mean by that is.
[13:18] Speaker 1: Of people of people.
[13:19] Speaker 2: Your circle of people and the people you associate with changes.
[13:22] Speaker 2: So you've achieved an amazing business success, suddenly you're now
[13:26] Speaker 2: rubbing shoulders with other people at that level. You are
[13:29] Speaker 2: now the least experienced person in that room. It's very
[13:33] Speaker 2: easy to start to think, I don't deserve to be here.
[13:35] Speaker 2: I don't know as much of these people, and you
[13:37] Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable. And then again the next success comes and
[13:40] Speaker 2: it just keeps coming and coming, and so we find
[13:42] Speaker 2: this doesn't really ever go away. You just have to
[13:45] Speaker 2: learn to get better at dealing with the feelings.
[13:47] Speaker 1: So when you say feelings, how important is measurement in
[13:52] Speaker 1: that category? So you know, because I've heard people say
[13:55] Speaker 1: this who run startups suit and they do well here
[13:57] Speaker 1: and strain they go to San Francisco and they say,
[14:00] Speaker 1: oh my god, I just don't feel like I've done
[14:01] Speaker 1: anything compared to the people I'm sitting here, because you know,
[14:03] Speaker 1: I made ten million in Australia, but they made one
[14:06] Speaker 1: hundred million Australian, they're only twenty five whatever. That type
[14:09] Speaker 1: of stuff is measurement? Is it dangerous? Measurement?
[14:14] Speaker 2: Measurement is helpful objectively from a business perspective, completely unhelpful
[14:21] Speaker 2: from an individual perspective. How you feel about yourself right,
[14:24] Speaker 2: Because if your sense of value as a person is
[14:29] Speaker 2: entirely dependent on measurement, it means that the moment you
[14:33] Speaker 2: keep finding someone doing better than which it's inevitable, you're
[14:36] Speaker 2: going to keep feeling worse about yourself. So you need
[14:39] Speaker 2: to find a way to anchor your self acceptance to
[14:41] Speaker 2: something unrelated to your business success and unrelated to measurement,
[14:44] Speaker 2: unrelated to measurement. Measurement is needed for business growth, not
[14:49] Speaker 2: for our own worth.
[14:50] Speaker 1: A lot of those people I know, they talk about
[14:53] Speaker 1: how much is he worth? Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And
[14:56] Speaker 1: media does that too. I mean, the media has that
[14:58] Speaker 1: stuff all the time because the media is in in
[15:00] Speaker 1: numbers and sort of yeah, numbers, that's sort of contrue.
[15:05] Speaker 1: I think they can contribute to people's sense of self
[15:07] Speaker 1: worth completely.
[15:08] Speaker 2: I think we need to print on mugs and t
[15:10] Speaker 2: shirts that your self worth is not your net worth,
[15:13] Speaker 2: and your net worth is not your self worth.
[15:15] Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's a very good point. I
[15:16] Speaker 1: wish people would put that t shirts.
[15:18] Speaker 2: I completely agree. He changed, you know, screen phone.
[15:22] Speaker 1: On your mirror when you get up them.
[15:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, everywhere. It's okay to have net worth as something
[15:28] Speaker 2: that you're aspiring towards, something you're building towards. It should
[15:31] Speaker 2: not have a bearing on how you feel about yourself.
[15:33] Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you lose your drive and your passion
[15:37] Speaker 2: to excel and be the best at what you want
[15:40] Speaker 2: to do, but it just doesn't have a bearing on
[15:42] Speaker 2: you as a human as so.
[15:46] Speaker 1: But if so, if I'm trying to work out my
[15:52] Speaker 1: self worth, and if I immediately discount net worth, which is fine.
[15:58] Speaker 2: What's left?
[15:58] Speaker 1: What am I looking at? Things that are that I'm
[16:02] Speaker 1: doing or thinking about that are worthy of humankind? I mean,
[16:06] Speaker 1: is that what I'm thinking of? Is it? Like? Is
[16:08] Speaker 1: my do I am I thinking about my social enterprise
[16:11] Speaker 1: relative to say, my business? If I'm out there pitching
[16:14] Speaker 1: my business to people, or if I'm sitting in a boardroom,
[16:17] Speaker 1: or if I'm sitting in a management meeting, or I'm
[16:18] Speaker 1: sitting with my one staff member or whoever it is.
[16:21] Speaker 1: If I don't want to think that way, what do
[16:25] Speaker 1: I think about to sort of help me with my self?
[16:28] Speaker 1: Worth calculation.
[16:29] Speaker 2: One way to think about it when we look at
[16:30] Speaker 2: the literature is the impact in the various areas of
[16:35] Speaker 2: your life. Which could be being the best father you
[16:38] Speaker 2: can be. It could be being the best friend you
[16:41] Speaker 2: can be, the best neighbor you can be. It could
[16:43] Speaker 2: be being the best parent or sorry, best you know
[16:46] Speaker 2: son or daughter for your parents. It's going to look
[16:49] Speaker 2: different for everybody. It might be having an impact in
[16:51] Speaker 2: the environment. There's something called self forgetting in the literature.
[16:55] Speaker 2: What happens when we have a lot of self doubt
[16:57] Speaker 2: is that we've become very internal looking.
[16:59] Speaker 1: Okay.
[17:00] Speaker 2: Think about the brain as being like a giant flashlight okay,
[17:04] Speaker 2: or a torch. Let's keep it simple. It's a torch,
[17:06] Speaker 2: and attention is where that torch is pointing. When you
[17:11] Speaker 2: struggle with self doubt, that torch is pointing inwards. I'm
[17:14] Speaker 2: not enough, I can't do this. They're ahead of me.
[17:16] Speaker 2: I don't belong. When attention is pointing inwards, we are
[17:21] Speaker 2: less able to actually focus on the world around us,
[17:23] Speaker 2: the people around us.
[17:24] Speaker 1: Perspective is gone.
[17:26] Speaker 2: Perspective is gone. We have the choice to shift that
[17:29] Speaker 2: flashlight outwards, that torch outwards onto the people around us,
[17:34] Speaker 2: the environment, the community. And when we do that consciously
[17:38] Speaker 2: shifting our attention. So instead of how am I coming across,
[17:41] Speaker 2: it's how can I add value to this person? How
[17:44] Speaker 2: can I make this barista smile? How can I do something.
[17:46] Speaker 1: That's barista.
[17:50] Speaker 2: Bistersta, not that one, make the b guy making my coffee.
[17:56] Speaker 2: Little things that we can do. It just gets you
[17:57] Speaker 2: out of your own head. And what's beautiful is when
[17:59] Speaker 2: we look at a lot of the research, it has
[18:01] Speaker 2: this shrinking effect on our ego. It has this shrinking
[18:04] Speaker 2: effect where we start thinking less about us and more
[18:07] Speaker 2: about other people. One really valuable tool that you can
[18:10] Speaker 2: use is role identification. What does that mean when you
[18:14] Speaker 2: struggle with acceptance and have a lot of self doubt.
[18:16] Speaker 2: You identify with your job, that is what you do.
[18:19] Speaker 2: You identify with your business, with your net worth.
[18:23] Speaker 1: For example, I'm the mortgage guy. Yeah if I say that.
[18:26] Speaker 1: If I say that, or I'm worth layah. You know, like,
[18:30] Speaker 1: which is the danger of all these you know, these
[18:33] Speaker 1: publications that publish you know, the riches people, top ten,
[18:36] Speaker 1: top fivepop whatever, I mean, I just think they're just
[18:38] Speaker 1: such a nonsense. Yeah. So, by the way, so do
[18:40] Speaker 1: most of the people in there. How do we sort
[18:44] Speaker 1: of turn that volume up? And when that volume goes up,
[18:47] Speaker 1: what goes down in our own head? How do we
[18:50] Speaker 1: manage that process in terms of the self worth bit
[18:53] Speaker 1: and best is actually best or the best I can be? Yeah,
[18:56] Speaker 1: nicely said?
[18:57] Speaker 2: Okay, two elements I want to share here. The first
[18:59] Speaker 2: one is something that I've seen shared and circulated around
[19:02] Speaker 2: a lot, and I love it. It said, you know,
[19:04] Speaker 2: if there's one day and you only had forty percent
[19:06] Speaker 2: to give, and you gave forty percent, then that was
[19:09] Speaker 2: your one hundred percent that day, that's it, and I
[19:11] Speaker 2: love it. We only have you know, we are a
[19:13] Speaker 2: finite capacity. We cannot push all the time. Our brain
[19:16] Speaker 2: has a finite capacity, our body has a finite capacity.
[19:19] Speaker 2: You give what you can. The second piece, though, is
[19:22] Speaker 2: also to ask yourself at the end of every day, Okay,
[19:25] Speaker 2: what worked? What was good? What am I happy with?
[19:27] Speaker 2: And what am I going to try and do better tomorrow?
[19:29] Speaker 1: I mean, like bank the winds, Bank.
[19:31] Speaker 2: The winds, from a personal perspective, what worked? And even
[19:34] Speaker 2: if you have no wins, that's okay? Okay, Well, how
[19:36] Speaker 2: am I going to be better tomorrow?
[19:37] Speaker 1: I don't believe it's always a win. Some response.
[19:39] Speaker 2: I agree. I completely agree. I woke up this morning. Yeah,
[19:42] Speaker 2: I'm not dead, I'm healthy, my family's healthy. It's always
[19:44] Speaker 2: a win. And that trains again this idea of the
[19:46] Speaker 2: flashlight that trains attention towards gratitude, right, because I think
[19:50] Speaker 2: people have gratitude wrong. I mean, it's it's this beautiful,
[19:54] Speaker 2: intangible thing, but really it's also attention training. There's this
[19:58] Speaker 2: other beautiful quote that said, the number of beautiful things
[20:01] Speaker 2: in your life entirely depends on your capacity to see them.
[20:06] Speaker 2: So if you if you are training yourself to notice
[20:09] Speaker 2: beautiful things in your life, you will notice so many
[20:11] Speaker 2: beautiful things in your life. If you're not able to
[20:14] Speaker 2: notice them, you will have none.
[20:15] Speaker 1: That's an important point. Training yourself though completely, you've got
[20:18] Speaker 1: to to Somebody said sometimes we've got to rewire as well.
[20:21] Speaker 1: But you've got to keep training. We're trying to go
[20:25] Speaker 1: go to the gym and training. We're very careful about
[20:28] Speaker 1: what we eat. We've got to train ourselves to think
[20:29] Speaker 1: the right way.
[20:30] Speaker 2: Yes, And that's why I love a lot of the
[20:32] Speaker 2: research that's gone into this book. A lot of my
[20:34] Speaker 2: work is recognizing that beliefs are developed through repeated exposure.
[20:41] Speaker 2: They can be changed through training. Attention can be trained,
[20:45] Speaker 2: self doubt can be trained out of us, and big
[20:47] Speaker 2: trust can be something we train. Now, I want to
[20:50] Speaker 2: quickly share two other hips.
[20:51] Speaker 1: I want to know what big trust is.
[20:52] Speaker 2: We'll get there. I want to just quickly share two
[20:54] Speaker 2: other tips in this space before we move to.
[20:56] Speaker 1: So we've hit we've gone to two specces.
[20:59] Speaker 2: We've done to four. There's four before we get to
[21:02] Speaker 2: the final two. Two other very quick tools for if
[21:05] Speaker 2: you struggle with either of the acceptance or the agency
[21:09] Speaker 2: for acceptance. Get a hobby. Get a hobby. Exactly what
[21:14] Speaker 2: does that mean anything? So studies have been done and
[21:17] Speaker 2: they found that people that have hobbies have higher self
[21:21] Speaker 2: acceptance and people with higher self acceptance. No, it's causative.
[21:27] Speaker 2: So they've done longitudinal studies. And the reason why this
[21:29] Speaker 2: is is because when you identify yourself as your job,
[21:32] Speaker 2: as your business, as your net worth, you don't really
[21:34] Speaker 2: make time for anything else. And it's called cognitive fusion.
[21:39] Speaker 2: Your identity becomes what you do. And that's so dangerous
[21:43] Speaker 2: because the track and I think anyone who has done
[21:48] Speaker 2: anything in the realm of business has experienced that, and
[21:51] Speaker 2: it can be damaging because it leads you to sacrifice
[21:54] Speaker 2: pieces of yourself, sacrifice things that are important to you
[21:56] Speaker 2: because that is your identity. What the research has also
[21:59] Speaker 2: shown is as a study with Nobel Prize winning scientists
[22:02] Speaker 2: and they found that those who win the prize are
[22:05] Speaker 2: three times more likely than other scientists to have a
[22:08] Speaker 2: hobby and twenty two times more likely to have a
[22:12] Speaker 2: creative hobby something fun, artistic, creative, that doesn't have measurement.
[22:19] Speaker 2: It's just something that they do as an outlet. Because
[22:21] Speaker 2: when we look at what it does to the brain,
[22:23] Speaker 2: hobbies also allow us to make different connections and to
[22:27] Speaker 2: use different prizes neural connections, and then when you're not
[22:32] Speaker 2: actively thinking about your business or the problems that need
[22:35] Speaker 2: to be solved, it activates what's called the default network
[22:38] Speaker 2: in the brain. And when you're doing something else that
[22:41] Speaker 2: is a creative hobby, I mean it could even be
[22:43] Speaker 2: a golf something active your brain, then default network is
[22:46] Speaker 2: plugging away at these problems. And that's often why some
[22:49] Speaker 2: of your greatest ideas come when you're emptying the dishwasher,
[22:52] Speaker 2: in the shower, on a walk. It's because you're not
[22:55] Speaker 2: actively focusing on it. So these Nobel Prize winning scientists
[22:58] Speaker 2: recognized that when they're doing something unrelated to their scientific endeavors,
[23:03] Speaker 2: it helps them with those scientific endeavors. Also, if they
[23:07] Speaker 2: have a bad day in their research lab, they get
[23:10] Speaker 2: to go and do something fun and remind themselves that
[23:12] Speaker 2: their entire identity is not just the output of their
[23:15] Speaker 2: statistical analysis.
[23:16] Speaker 1: A daily practice, it can be anything.
[23:19] Speaker 2: We encourage people to do what's called the daily dabble
[23:21] Speaker 2: ten minutes a day of something low, especially if you
[23:25] Speaker 2: know the idea of a hobby is a bit much
[23:27] Speaker 2: for you. Just ten minutes a day doing something fun
[23:29] Speaker 2: for you, doodling in a book, baking something I don't know,
[23:33] Speaker 2: picking up a guitar. Just ten minutes a day to
[23:35] Speaker 2: start to train the habit of hey, I can do this,
[23:39] Speaker 2: I can do something.
[23:40] Speaker 1: Are you justing a creative hobby?
[23:43] Speaker 2: Ideally yes, but it can be anything to start to train,
[23:46] Speaker 2: because there's going to be a part of you that
[23:48] Speaker 2: thinks I'm wasting time. It can be learned a language.
[23:50] Speaker 2: In fact, that's great for your brain, and it also
[23:53] Speaker 2: means you can go to the country and use the language.
[23:56] Speaker 1: Learn language, learn an instrument, yeah, maybe play golf whatever.
[24:00] Speaker 1: It is a quick think. You don't think worse. But
[24:01] Speaker 1: do you, as you say, Bak, just do something outside
[24:06] Speaker 1: of your normal realm? Yes, and I think podcasts will
[24:08] Speaker 1: because would podcasts listening to podcasts form part of maybe
[24:13] Speaker 1: having a hobby, like I mean, or listening to things
[24:17] Speaker 1: where there's learning involved or education involved.
[24:20] Speaker 2: I would say, so long as you're actually doing something
[24:22] Speaker 2: with the learning, because what we find is a lot
[24:25] Speaker 2: of people will listen to podcasts because they get a
[24:28] Speaker 2: kick out of feeling like they're learning and developing themselves.
[24:31] Speaker 2: But it becomes a bit of an addiction and dopamine hit. Okay,
[24:34] Speaker 2: once done, what's next. They don't actually take the time
[24:37] Speaker 2: to implement what they're learning, which then just becomes a
[24:40] Speaker 2: giant waste of time. It's called a productivity orientation where
[24:43] Speaker 2: you feel like you need to be optimizing every single
[24:45] Speaker 2: minute of every day, so you have an hour spare.
[24:48] Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm not going to go pick up the guitar.
[24:49] Speaker 2: I'm going to go listen to a podcast while I'm
[24:51] Speaker 2: on the treadmill.
[24:51] Speaker 1: I'm with the gimhead, you know, which is okay?
[24:54] Speaker 2: I mean, at least you're getting pysical activity. But think about, Okay,
[24:57] Speaker 2: if I've just listened to a podcast, let me take
[24:59] Speaker 2: five and it's at the end of it, what are
[25:01] Speaker 2: three things that really stood out to me? And what
[25:03] Speaker 2: is the one thing I'm going to implement to make
[25:05] Speaker 2: it count so that it's not just endless consumption, because
[25:08] Speaker 2: that endless consumption can also undermine your agency because you
[25:12] Speaker 2: start to think, gosh, there's so much I don't know yet,
[25:15] Speaker 2: I need to keep researching and learning. You know what's
[25:17] Speaker 2: really interesting, Mark studies have been down that show that
[25:20] Speaker 2: the less someone knows about something, the more confident they feel.
[25:25] Speaker 2: The more confident they.
[25:26] Speaker 1: Feel bullshit baffles Brian's.
[25:27] Speaker 2: Totally and I'm sure we've met people like this little
[25:31] Speaker 2: and they have so much conviction. People who genuinely understand
[25:35] Speaker 2: an area realize how much more there is to exactly
[25:40] Speaker 2: And what can happen is I can undermine your self
[25:42] Speaker 2: trust because you think, gosh, there's so much more I
[25:45] Speaker 2: have to learn. I'm not going to go yet, I'm
[25:47] Speaker 2: not ready. I need to research more. And so what
[25:50] Speaker 2: you need to think is embrace the arrogance that comes
[25:53] Speaker 2: from not knowing much. And even if you realize there's
[25:56] Speaker 2: so much more. How do you get a proof point early?
[25:59] Speaker 2: How do you take the step, try the thing, say
[26:01] Speaker 2: that whatever you want to say in the meeting, meet
[26:03] Speaker 2: the person, schedule the pitch, just do the thing, low
[26:06] Speaker 2: stakes to get that evidence poise of Hey, I can
[26:09] Speaker 2: show up in uncertainty, and even if it doesn't work out,
[26:12] Speaker 2: I'm going to focus on what I can learn from
[26:14] Speaker 2: that and then apply it in future. So we had
[26:16] Speaker 2: a student who once said that he was doing painting right.
[26:19] Speaker 2: He'd return to painting as his hobby, and he used
[26:21] Speaker 2: to do it with art art, Yes, and he used
[26:24] Speaker 2: to do it when he was younger. But he said
[26:26] Speaker 2: when he came back to do it, he was really
[26:28] Speaker 2: high achieving in the corporate world. He said, when he
[26:30] Speaker 2: came back to paint, he was putting so much pressure
[26:32] Speaker 2: on himself to paint something beautiful that he wasn't enjoying it.
[26:37] Speaker 2: And I said, you need a different hobby. The moment
[26:39] Speaker 2: the hobby starts becoming pressure, do something else. It's not
[26:42] Speaker 2: working for you right now, So you might have to
[26:45] Speaker 2: cycle through a few different things. What's really valuable to
[26:47] Speaker 2: do as well is assess how you feel before you
[26:49] Speaker 2: do the thing. Assess how you feel during it. Just
[26:52] Speaker 2: ask yourself how energized do I feel? Outified?
[26:55] Speaker 1: When you say feel, you mean, what's my nagery level.
[26:57] Speaker 2: Energy level exactly, And then assess yourself after you do
[27:00] Speaker 2: the thing, because sometimes we well not sometimes we're terrible
[27:05] Speaker 2: at really assessing what's going on inside of us. Because
[27:08] Speaker 2: high performing people are very good at pushing it away
[27:11] Speaker 2: and just getting the job done. There's so much value
[27:14] Speaker 2: in slowing down a little and asking what is really
[27:17] Speaker 2: going on internally? Be scary, it's scary, it's vulnerable, it's
[27:21] Speaker 2: a bit fluffy for many people. But studies show in neuroscience,
[27:25] Speaker 2: in behavioral science, in cognitive science, that the better you
[27:28] Speaker 2: get at tuning into what you feel, the better able
[27:32] Speaker 2: you are to manage the challenging emotions.
[27:35] Speaker 1: Then on that point, can I then go and talk
[27:37] Speaker 1: about you would mind talking about when you say, stopping
[27:43] Speaker 1: for the moment and feeling a certain way? What about meditations?
[27:49] Speaker 1: Where does that fit into all this?
[27:51] Speaker 2: Meditation and mindfulness are phenomenal tools which essentially, if you
[27:56] Speaker 2: think about it this way, self doubt is the result
[27:59] Speaker 2: of thoughts that we have that are reflecting beliefs that
[28:02] Speaker 2: we have. Meditation and mindfulness create a barrier between the
[28:06] Speaker 2: thought and ourselves, and so it creates separation between whatever
[28:11] Speaker 2: is going on up here. You're not good enough, you
[28:13] Speaker 2: haven't done enough. Everyone is ahead of you, you're a pathetic.
[28:17] Speaker 2: It just creates this boundary. And what it allows you
[28:20] Speaker 2: to do more so is recognize that these thoughts are
[28:23] Speaker 2: like clouds in a sky. They're going to come, they're
[28:27] Speaker 2: going to go, but beyond them is always the sky.
[28:30] Speaker 2: That's who I am. I need to learn to acknowledge
[28:33] Speaker 2: that that is who I am. Again, the clouds are
[28:35] Speaker 2: not me. They're transient. They come, they go. Depend Yes,
[28:40] Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that we can't do anything about them.
[28:44] Speaker 2: We can harness them, which actually gets into pillar number four,
[28:47] Speaker 2: the fourth attribute. So why don't we jump into the
[28:49] Speaker 2: third attribute? Oh well, I wanted to share one super
[28:52] Speaker 2: quick tool for anyone struggling with I gave one which
[28:56] Speaker 2: was hobbies. I'll share this one quickly. I get so excited.
[28:59] Speaker 2: There's so much to share. Okay, if you find yourself
[29:00] Speaker 2: comparing to others, comparing itself is not a negative thing,
[29:05] Speaker 2: but when it makes you feel inadequate, that's when it
[29:08] Speaker 2: becomes a negative thing. So how do we make sure
[29:10] Speaker 2: that it stays positive. Instead of comparison, shift to emulation.
[29:14] Speaker 2: What does that mean? Wow, look at how far ahead
[29:17] Speaker 2: that person is. How can I learn from their journey?
[29:20] Speaker 2: What can I learn from what they've done to implement
[29:22] Speaker 2: into how I do things into my business in my
[29:25] Speaker 2: marketing strategy. That way, you're using it as a fuel
[29:28] Speaker 2: to move forward and not something that keeps you stuck.
[29:30] Speaker 1: What can I take from them? Exactly, it's not nearly.
[29:34] Speaker 1: I put them in the position of and being the
[29:37] Speaker 1: host of which I'm going to take something from them.
[29:40] Speaker 2: That's that sounds a little dark, like a parasite.
[29:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's nothing wrong with But there's nothing wrong
[29:45] Speaker 1: with a parasite, and a parasite just lives like everybody
[29:47] Speaker 1: else has worked out a way surviving.
[29:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, it can be symbiotic you can think of.
[29:51] Speaker 1: But you're not going to give them any You're giving
[29:54] Speaker 1: them a moment of appreciation. Yeah, appreciation here I looked
[29:58] Speaker 1: at you, or you might give my like Kendrid you.
[30:01] Speaker 1: But but you know, online is like if you're if
[30:04] Speaker 1: you're a person who does this comparison things special on
[30:06] Speaker 1: social media and or wherever, it might not even it
[30:11] Speaker 1: just might be in a group and you're just thinkingness
[30:13] Speaker 1: of bloody hell, they do so much better than me. Yes,
[30:16] Speaker 1: I think of them as a host. Well, what can
[30:18] Speaker 1: I get out of that? I don't mean this in
[30:20] Speaker 1: a horrible way, but what can I get from Chade
[30:23] Speaker 1: that she just told me that. I could either take
[30:26] Speaker 1: it as a less she's so much better than me,
[30:28] Speaker 1: or I can say I'll borrow that. Okay, we're not
[30:31] Speaker 1: going to take it. We're going to borrow it.
[30:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[30:32] Speaker 1: Nice. I like that we're going to borrow it from her.
[30:34] Speaker 1: I can see how it fits into my regime. I
[30:37] Speaker 1: quite like that one. That one was a good one.
[30:39] Speaker 2: I like it's simple, it's tangible. It means you don't
[30:41] Speaker 2: have to stop the natural habit of our brain, which
[30:44] Speaker 2: is comparing. You just channel it. Yeah, okay, let's move
[30:46] Speaker 2: into the third and fourth attributes. Now, So we've had acceptance,
[30:50] Speaker 2: which is when you feel like you're enough. We've have agency,
[30:52] Speaker 2: when you believe that you can do the thing or
[30:54] Speaker 2: you'll figure it out. The third one is really interesting.
[30:57] Speaker 2: So Mark and anyone listening, have you ever come across
[31:00] Speaker 2: someone who just constantly complains about everything. They are resentful,
[31:06] Speaker 2: they're very frustrated. They tell you the same story of
[31:10] Speaker 2: how they've been hurt in the past, how the business failed,
[31:13] Speaker 2: how they were double crossed. And the first two or
[31:15] Speaker 2: three times they tell you have genuine empathy for them.
[31:19] Speaker 2: The twentieth or thirtieth time, maybe the first time, but
[31:21] Speaker 2: the thirtieth time they're telling you you realize, Okay, you're
[31:23] Speaker 2: keeping yourself.
[31:24] Speaker 1: Stuck, and I have resentment for him. I said, don't
[31:26] Speaker 1: talk to me.
[31:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, you're sucking me into your negativity. They stay, right, Well,
[31:30] Speaker 2: negativity is contagious. Complaining is contagious. The thing about complaining
[31:34] Speaker 2: that we don't realize is that it keeps you reliving
[31:38] Speaker 2: the same negative experience over and over in your brain
[31:41] Speaker 2: in vivid detail, which then deepens the neural pathways, which
[31:46] Speaker 2: makes future complaining more likely. And you become a negativity
[31:49] Speaker 2: magnet for yourself or for yourself and for other people.
[31:52] Speaker 1: So if someone says I want to find someone who's
[31:54] Speaker 1: always constantly negative because they've got something negative, say, I'm
[31:57] Speaker 1: going to go and talk to that person.
[31:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, And they feed each other because when someone is
[32:02] Speaker 2: sharing something negative or complaining and they get that, oh
[32:04] Speaker 2: that's terrible, that's a social reward. Yeah, and it feels
[32:08] Speaker 2: great because of what's happening in the brain, but it's
[32:10] Speaker 2: not helpful because it keeps you stuck. Now, when we
[32:12] Speaker 2: look at why people complain, it's generally because they feel
[32:16] Speaker 2: powerless in a situation. There's nothing they could do. There's nothing. Well,
[32:20] Speaker 2: they believe there's nothing they can do, because the brain
[32:23] Speaker 2: likes the ability to predict things. It likes certainty, and
[32:26] Speaker 2: it will simulate that by getting you to complain, to
[32:30] Speaker 2: reinforce that there's nothing you can do, because that gives
[32:32] Speaker 2: you a sense of certainty. But an actual fact, it
[32:35] Speaker 2: blinds you from all the things that you could do. Yes, objectively,
[32:39] Speaker 2: something terrible may have happened, but that doesn't mean that
[32:42] Speaker 2: you become a prisoner to it. You know, there's this
[32:44] Speaker 2: beautiful quote from Eckhart Toll is it Tolly or tat tat,
[32:49] Speaker 2: and it says he says something like, when you're complaining,
[32:53] Speaker 2: you literally only have three options, right. You can accept
[32:56] Speaker 2: the situation, change the situation, or leave the situation. Anything
[33:00] Speaker 2: else is total madness. And I love that because if
[33:04] Speaker 2: you either accept it, you change it, or you leave it,
[33:08] Speaker 2: Complaining doesn't help anybody. It doesn't help anybody you. So
[33:14] Speaker 2: this is what we see in the third pillar, which
[33:15] Speaker 2: is autonomy. When you don't feel like you have choices
[33:19] Speaker 2: you can make, when you feel like you have no power,
[33:22] Speaker 2: it's undermining your self trust and fueling yourself doubt because
[33:27] Speaker 2: you feel like, as an individual, you are powerless to
[33:31] Speaker 2: change your circumstances, and then you get stuck in these
[33:34] Speaker 2: habits that keep you stuck. So that's autonomy. So really, simply,
[33:38] Speaker 2: if someone is struggling here, which can happen if you
[33:41] Speaker 2: face a number of challenging situations repeatedly, if your business
[33:45] Speaker 2: is just not getting anywhere, rather than complaining, rather than oh,
[33:48] Speaker 2: we see a lot of blame. It's your fault that
[33:51] Speaker 2: this didn't happen. It's because of him, It's that I
[33:54] Speaker 2: took your advice in it. It's terrible. You're outsourcing responsibility.
[33:58] Speaker 2: So ask yourself in that moment. Actually, let me go back.
[34:02] Speaker 2: What we hear a lot mark here is should I
[34:05] Speaker 2: should have done that? I shouldn't have listened to that person. Now,
[34:08] Speaker 2: if I were to say to you, Mark, you should
[34:10] Speaker 2: say a little bit further back. When you hear the
[34:11] Speaker 2: words should, does your body have an instant reaction what
[34:16] Speaker 2: is that instant reaction?
[34:17] Speaker 1: I am melily think, who are you to tell me?
[34:20] Speaker 1: I'm merely think of what you're talking about? What am
[34:22] Speaker 1: I doing wrong? Yeah, as you start, you actually can
[34:25] Speaker 1: correct yourself because I do know that I do slump too.
[34:28] Speaker 2: Oh it was that was just a little example. So
[34:31] Speaker 2: but the idea with should is just we don't really
[34:34] Speaker 2: like being told what we should do, and we resist it.
[34:39] Speaker 2: Don't tell me what to do. I mean, in your case,
[34:41] Speaker 2: you were so sweet, You're like, yeah, maybe I.
[34:42] Speaker 1: Could say my posture is really important in this game.
[34:47] Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll talk about posture in sec because it's
[34:49] Speaker 2: such a good one. But when we use the language
[34:52] Speaker 2: of should on ourselves, it's disempowering. Yeah I should have
[34:54] Speaker 2: done that, I shouldn't have done that. It makes you
[34:56] Speaker 2: feel like you made the wrong choice and you get
[34:58] Speaker 2: full of regret. So what we from research there is
[35:01] Speaker 2: one simple switch move from should to could. Okay, well
[35:05] Speaker 2: I could do this, I could do this, I could
[35:07] Speaker 2: do this, I could do this. We call it the
[35:09] Speaker 2: I could list. When you feel like you have no power,
[35:12] Speaker 2: it's because you're focusing on everything outside of your control,
[35:16] Speaker 2: and that's going to make you feel powerless because you
[35:17] Speaker 2: are powerless in that situation. Grab a piece of paper
[35:21] Speaker 2: on the left side, so divide it into on the
[35:23] Speaker 2: left side, in the left column, write down everything you
[35:25] Speaker 2: could do in the moment. This forces you to focus
[35:28] Speaker 2: on what is possible. You're taking your flashlight and focusing
[35:32] Speaker 2: on options and potential solutions. You're not committing to anything,
[35:35] Speaker 2: which is great because the brain might resist if you
[35:37] Speaker 2: try and commit. You just write it down. This in
[35:40] Speaker 2: itself reactivates your prefrontal cortex. You're shining the spotlight on solutions.
[35:45] Speaker 2: Makes you feel empowered. Your next step is your I
[35:48] Speaker 2: will list. Okay, so from everything you wrote down, what's
[35:51] Speaker 2: one or two things that you're actually going to do.
[35:54] Speaker 2: Just circle them from your list. And then the third
[35:56] Speaker 2: step is instead of you know, okay, well I will
[35:59] Speaker 2: call the inva and I will do this, you shift
[36:02] Speaker 2: into what's called empowered language. Language has an incredible ability
[36:06] Speaker 2: to change how we feel. So what does that mean?
[36:08] Speaker 2: Instead of I will you say, I choose to I
[36:11] Speaker 2: choose to call the investor at five pm today to
[36:14] Speaker 2: give them the bad news. I choose to go to
[36:16] Speaker 2: the gym at five am because of whatever. That in
[36:19] Speaker 2: itself just shifting to choose or empowered language has been
[36:23] Speaker 2: shown to increase self control, increase will power, and reduce
[36:27] Speaker 2: temptation from distracting you just from our language choices. Wow,
[36:32] Speaker 2: it's phenomenal.
[36:33] Speaker 1: It's phenomenal. So I like to sort of using the
[36:36] Speaker 1: word choose, that's.
[36:37] Speaker 2: Choose, because it reminds you, no matter what is happening,
[36:39] Speaker 2: you're choosing.
[36:40] Speaker 1: Okay.
[36:40] Speaker 2: So I once gave a keynote presentation. We work with
[36:42] Speaker 2: companies around the world, Microsoft, Deloitte, Google, and I was
[36:46] Speaker 2: speaking to Microsoft in India, actually their India campus in Hyderbad,
[36:50] Speaker 2: and I was sharing this with the audience, the idea
[36:52] Speaker 2: of choose, and someone raised their hands and said, yeah,
[36:54] Speaker 2: but I don't choose to go to work every day.
[36:56] Speaker 2: I have to go to work. And I said, how
[36:58] Speaker 2: do you feel when you say I have to? And
[37:00] Speaker 2: he said, well, it makes me feel really deflated. And
[37:03] Speaker 2: he said, okay, So what would happen if you didn't
[37:04] Speaker 2: come to work tomorrow? And he said, I'll probably get
[37:07] Speaker 2: an email from my manager ask him where I am.
[37:09] Speaker 2: And he said, what happens if you didn't go to
[37:10] Speaker 2: work for the next week? He said, well, probably lose
[37:13] Speaker 2: my job and he said, what would happen? Then he goes, well,
[37:15] Speaker 2: and I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage. I
[37:17] Speaker 2: would this, that would happen, That would happen. I said, Okay,
[37:19] Speaker 2: so you're actually choosing to go to work because of
[37:23] Speaker 2: everything that it gives you. You are making that choice
[37:26] Speaker 2: because you could choose not to come, but there are consequences.
[37:30] Speaker 2: And in that moment, that moment of recognition for him
[37:33] Speaker 2: was really powerful because he realized that he may feel
[37:37] Speaker 2: like he has to go to work, but if you
[37:38] Speaker 2: can frame it as no, I'm choosing to go to
[37:40] Speaker 2: work because it allows me to provide for my family,
[37:44] Speaker 2: to create the life that I want for myself, because
[37:47] Speaker 2: the alternative is choosing not to go, and that's not
[37:49] Speaker 2: a future that I want. And that in itself, just
[37:52] Speaker 2: moving to empowered language of I'm choosing this changes so
[37:55] Speaker 2: many things.
[37:57] Speaker 1: It's so simple. I don't have to I choose to.
[37:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, I choose to be here, I choose to have
[38:02] Speaker 2: this conversation. I choose to spend time with my family.
[38:05] Speaker 2: It just it really changes.
[38:08] Speaker 1: To resent.
[38:08] Speaker 2: Oh, it's the way like I have to call my mother, No,
[38:10] Speaker 2: I choose to call my mother.
[38:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it's a pretty simple switcher.
[38:14] Speaker 2: So simple. That's why I love looking at evidence based practices.
[38:18] Speaker 2: What is working, and then we look at the simplest
[38:21] Speaker 2: things to implement, because if we can start with the simple,
[38:24] Speaker 2: then we can develop the habits and develop the attentional
[38:27] Speaker 2: focus and then everything gets easier from there.
[38:29] Speaker 1: And what's number four?
[38:30] Speaker 2: Number four? So three was automy.
[38:33] Speaker 1: By the way, these in any order, well.
[38:35] Speaker 2: A lot of people ask that they're not necessarily in
[38:38] Speaker 2: any order, but we do find that this process helps
[38:42] Speaker 2: people develop what they need in order to move to
[38:45] Speaker 2: the next stage. Because if let's say, if you don't
[38:47] Speaker 2: fundamentally accept yourself, developing any of the other attributes is
[38:51] Speaker 2: not going to help. So you need all you need all, okay,
[38:54] Speaker 2: So when we get into the let me share the
[38:56] Speaker 2: fourth and then i'll share how they work together. The
[38:59] Speaker 2: fourth one is called adaptability, but it specifically relates to
[39:03] Speaker 2: your ability to adapt to your emotional state. So it's
[39:06] Speaker 2: how you handle stress, anxiety, overwhelm everything going on inside.
[39:12] Speaker 2: And I mean, I probably don't need to go into
[39:14] Speaker 2: a huge amount of detail here because it's very obvious
[39:16] Speaker 2: for people. One of the greatest factors that undermines high
[39:21] Speaker 2: performance and success is emotions, specifically stress, chronic stress, the
[39:28] Speaker 2: physical damage that that does to you, the psychological damage
[39:31] Speaker 2: that that does to you. And so we know that
[39:34] Speaker 2: if you can get better at navigating that, everything else
[39:37] Speaker 2: gets easier. So two simple tools here, one of them.
[39:41] Speaker 2: A lot of people personalize a lot. We take on
[39:45] Speaker 2: a lot. Someone says something and we have a very
[39:48] Speaker 2: strong emotional reaction. Something happens and we have a very
[39:51] Speaker 2: strong emotional reaction. I would like everyone to write this
[39:54] Speaker 2: down or keep this front of mind. You say to
[39:56] Speaker 2: yourself in the moment of the big emotional reaction, I
[40:00] Speaker 2: don't have to make this mean so much. I don't
[40:04] Speaker 2: have to make this mean so much. It is so simple.
[40:08] Speaker 1: So I know it was a reject. Someone rejects a
[40:10] Speaker 1: meeting with.
[40:11] Speaker 2: You, Yeah, because what happens in that moment, I mean,
[40:13] Speaker 2: what goes through your head mark If someone rejects a
[40:15] Speaker 2: meeting with you and you struggle with.
[40:16] Speaker 1: Self doubt, what happens People say, well, it wasn't good
[40:19] Speaker 1: enough for the meeting completely. Yeah, that's reject They actually
[40:23] Speaker 1: say that. Then then they affirm in their own mind
[40:25] Speaker 1: that they're not good enough.
[40:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, which reinforces a belief because that's where their flashlight
[40:29] Speaker 2: is pointing the attention.
[40:30] Speaker 1: And I often say yeah, you say, well, they're probably busy.
[40:32] Speaker 1: They've got other stuff going on exactly.
[40:34] Speaker 2: So when you say I don't have to make this
[40:36] Speaker 2: mean so much, the next step is the word maybe,
[40:40] Speaker 2: what does that look like? Okay? So maybe is that
[40:44] Speaker 2: thought process of okay, let's come up with all the
[40:46] Speaker 2: other reasons that this thing could have happened. Maybe they're busy,
[40:50] Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't a good time, Maybe my email wasn't
[40:53] Speaker 2: written in a compelling way. And that separates yourself from
[40:57] Speaker 2: the situation, and.
[40:57] Speaker 1: It's just interested in the matter. There are many other
[41:00] Speaker 1: things are doing.
[41:01] Speaker 2: And you can do this all the time, like oh,
[41:03] Speaker 2: I'm on the road and some idiot you know, cuts
[41:06] Speaker 2: me off on the road instead of that full road
[41:09] Speaker 2: rage about to take on. I don't have to make
[41:10] Speaker 2: this mean so much. Maybe they're in a rush because
[41:12] Speaker 2: they're busting to use the toilet. We've all been there.
[41:15] Speaker 2: Maybe they're in a rush because they've just got a
[41:16] Speaker 2: phone call from the hospital and their kids fallen out
[41:18] Speaker 2: of a tree and broken their leg. Maybe their mum
[41:21] Speaker 2: has had a fall. It just allows you perspective and
[41:25] Speaker 2: instantly reminds you you're not the center of the universe,
[41:28] Speaker 2: which is a really powerful reframe in the moment. Again,
[41:31] Speaker 2: if you think about attention, you've gone attention on me.
[41:35] Speaker 2: This all means something about me to know, actually there's
[41:38] Speaker 2: other things going on here.
[41:39] Speaker 1: Well, they're the one that did the event, so the
[41:41] Speaker 1: chance you should be on them. So it is. But
[41:43] Speaker 1: what you mean by adaptability, that's that the ability to
[41:46] Speaker 1: be able to adapt to the situation, your feelings, the words.
[41:50] Speaker 1: It wasn't about me, it's about that particular individual. But
[41:53] Speaker 1: potentially it doesn't really it doesn't really mean what. It
[41:55] Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the reason it.
[41:56] Speaker 2: Doesn't know, It really doesn't just so long as you
[41:59] Speaker 2: don't internalize it. Yeah, unless you know for a fact,
[42:01] Speaker 2: unless they tell you, yeah, then in that case, okay,
[42:03] Speaker 2: learn from that.
[42:04] Speaker 1: Yeah. And if they tell you, look like just not
[42:06] Speaker 1: interested because I just think you know, it's not up
[42:09] Speaker 1: to my speed, not to my not available enough. Okay,
[42:13] Speaker 1: Well I've done something wrong here, could do something better.
[42:16] Speaker 1: Those four things that you cover those four things by
[42:19] Speaker 1: chapters or something, yeah, parts by parts, and in terms
[42:23] Speaker 1: of in terms of covering the issues off do you
[42:26] Speaker 1: also give the tips and tricks.
[42:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's over thirty tips and tricks in here,
[42:31] Speaker 2: science backed, research based tools.
[42:32] Speaker 1: So I'm going to say they're all research based, your
[42:35] Speaker 1: research and literature based. So you've done literature reviews on
[42:38] Speaker 1: all this stuff. Is it party PhD?
[42:40] Speaker 2: Yeah? It was.
[42:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, so part of your sort of PhDs sort of
[42:44] Speaker 1: been sort of novelized, so to speak. Put it into
[42:48] Speaker 1: a book. That's what you've done. That's very clever. And
[42:51] Speaker 1: can I just start a couple of couple of questions
[42:53] Speaker 1: about because as you're speaking on thinking about things, yeah,
[42:58] Speaker 1: people often ring me up and they say, you people
[43:00] Speaker 1: I know because you know, I've been around a long time.
[43:02] Speaker 1: And people think, oh, well, maybe the last mark something
[43:05] Speaker 1: and they say to me, blah blah blah, what if
[43:08] Speaker 1: this happens and that happens? And always my answer is anyway,
[43:12] Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's right or wrong, but
[43:15] Speaker 1: I take the view only play what's in front of you.
[43:19] Speaker 1: Like I can't fight fifty fights at once, and particularly
[43:22] Speaker 1: in the future, but I'll just fight what's in front
[43:24] Speaker 1: of me if I've got to. If I don't mean physical,
[43:26] Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, just deal with what's
[43:28] Speaker 1: in front of me. How important is it for people
[43:30] Speaker 1: just to learn how to deal what's just in front
[43:32] Speaker 1: of them, as opposed to thinking about consequence after consequences
[43:35] Speaker 1: of consequence. Because there's so many possibilities in the universe,
[43:38] Speaker 1: it's infinite. Should you not worry about that sort of
[43:42] Speaker 1: stuff and just play what's in front of you?
[43:43] Speaker 2: I like that you've asked this question because there's two
[43:45] Speaker 2: responses here. On the one hand, again going back to
[43:48] Speaker 2: the analogy of attention and the brain being like a flashlight,
[43:52] Speaker 2: if you take that flashlight from what's in front of
[43:54] Speaker 2: you to everything else, you can create a lot of anxiety,
[43:57] Speaker 2: unnecessary anxiety. So if you shift it to just the
[43:59] Speaker 2: next step, it reduces the load in our brain, makes
[44:02] Speaker 2: it much easier. That said, I want to share with
[44:04] Speaker 2: you this really great story about Michael Phelps. So, Michael Phelps,
[44:08] Speaker 2: the swimmer, one of the greatest. You're really good at
[44:11] Speaker 2: doing that, like filling in little bees is very skilled.
[44:13] Speaker 2: I noticed, so the swimmer, Michael Phelps, he's in the
[44:16] Speaker 2: two thousand and eight Olympics for the finals of the butterfly.
[44:20] Speaker 2: I have never been able to do the butterfly, so
[44:22] Speaker 2: I have so much respect for anyone who can so
[44:24] Speaker 2: as in the Olympics. Now, his coach used to say
[44:27] Speaker 2: that Michael Phelps had this remarkable skill or talent of visualizing.
[44:32] Speaker 2: He would visualize everything, but not visualizing success. I mean
[44:36] Speaker 2: he'd do that too, but he really focused on visualizing
[44:39] Speaker 2: everything that could go wrong. He would visualize his goggles snapping,
[44:45] Speaker 2: slipping on the starting block, losing his rhythm mid race.
[44:50] Speaker 2: He'd visualize all of these things and then visualize what
[44:53] Speaker 2: he would do if they happened, so that he could
[44:55] Speaker 2: ingrain it in his nervous system. Because his view was,
[44:59] Speaker 2: if I can do that, then if it happens, I
[45:01] Speaker 2: know exactly how to respond. I have my coping plan
[45:04] Speaker 2: and I don't have to think about it improvement. I'm prepped.
[45:07] Speaker 2: And that was a remarkably powerful tool in the two
[45:10] Speaker 2: thousand and eight Olympics because what happened was he dove
[45:13] Speaker 2: into the pool. Within about twenty five meters, his goggles
[45:17] Speaker 2: filled up with water. He was swimming and he couldn't
[45:20] Speaker 2: see a thing. But he didn't stress, he didn't get overwhelmed,
[45:24] Speaker 2: he didn't start focusing on what the other competitors are doing.
[45:27] Speaker 2: He just defaulted to his mental training because he'd already
[45:31] Speaker 2: been there before in his mind. He ends up winning
[45:34] Speaker 2: gold and breaking a world record. He swam blind for
[45:38] Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy five meters out of a two
[45:40] Speaker 2: hundred fly. He wins gold and breaks a world record
[45:44] Speaker 2: purely been there before. Now, what is the insight we
[45:48] Speaker 2: can take from this? It's called an implementation intension in
[45:51] Speaker 2: the literature when we look at goal setting research. The
[45:53] Speaker 2: idea is that if you can come up with an
[45:55] Speaker 2: implementation plan, so if this happens, then I will for
[46:01] Speaker 2: everything that could go wrong, I know what I'll do.
[46:03] Speaker 2: And I always say that when it comes to high stakes.
[46:05] Speaker 1: Moments, you write this stuff down.
[46:09] Speaker 2: Totally. I am a big proponent of everything being written
[46:11] Speaker 2: handwritten because we also know, again lots of research has
[46:15] Speaker 2: been done. When you've got a physical pen, I mean
[46:17] Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be physical pen. I think you
[46:19] Speaker 2: can use like the style of the whatever, the movement
[46:23] Speaker 2: of the hand because it activates different parts as opposed
[46:27] Speaker 2: to typing or tapping on your phone. It activates different
[46:29] Speaker 2: parts of your brain, helps you with emotional processing and
[46:32] Speaker 2: helps with learning and retention. So I'm a big proponent
[46:36] Speaker 2: of that. Go back to physically writing it down. So
[46:39] Speaker 2: when it comes to a high stakes moment, like let's
[46:42] Speaker 2: say someone's pitching for funding for their business. That's a
[46:45] Speaker 2: high stakes moment. And if you only focus on what's
[46:48] Speaker 2: ahead of you, which is I'm going to show up
[46:49] Speaker 2: to the pitch and pitch, you might get stuck when
[46:53] Speaker 2: your microphone stops working, or there's an issue with your slides,
[46:56] Speaker 2: or you forget what you're about to say mid sentence.
[46:59] Speaker 2: So if you can map out everything that could happen
[47:02] Speaker 2: in that high stakes moment and what you will do. Okay,
[47:05] Speaker 2: if my microphone stops working, I'm going to make a
[47:07] Speaker 2: joke to the audience and then just take two minutes
[47:10] Speaker 2: and go off and swap it. If I forget what
[47:12] Speaker 2: I'm saying mid sentence, I have a question, I'll ask
[47:15] Speaker 2: the audience so that I can go off and look
[47:16] Speaker 2: at my notes. It just allows you to know what
[47:20] Speaker 2: to do in those moments so that if they happen,
[47:22] Speaker 2: you've been there before, You're not going to stress out.
[47:25] Speaker 2: You can respond appropriately. Not only that, it boosts your agency.
[47:29] Speaker 2: This is the second pillar, which is the I can
[47:31] Speaker 2: do this.
[47:32] Speaker 1: Because it's like experience. Having experienced every one of those
[47:34] Speaker 1: things without having the experience exactly. So it's like you're
[47:37] Speaker 1: prepared for the each other exactly.
[47:39] Speaker 2: And from a brain perspective, you're desensitizing yourself to that
[47:42] Speaker 2: experience because you've lived it before. You've got the evidence of, hey,
[47:47] Speaker 2: I was able to survive this, even if it's only
[47:49] Speaker 2: in your brain from visualization, because visualizing activates the same
[47:53] Speaker 2: or similar part to the brain to actually physically doing
[47:56] Speaker 2: the thing. So you are giving yourself mental reps, even
[47:59] Speaker 2: if it's just in your head. So going back to
[48:01] Speaker 2: your question, is it better to just focus on what's
[48:03] Speaker 2: in front of you or think about everything that could
[48:06] Speaker 2: go wrong? It depends on the situation. If it's a
[48:09] Speaker 2: high stake situation, go through that process. I once shared
[48:13] Speaker 2: this with a student of one of our programs and
[48:15] Speaker 2: he said it gave me so much anxiety because I
[48:17] Speaker 2: mapped out everything that could go wrong and suddenly I
[48:20] Speaker 2: realized I'm not going to be able to do this.
[48:22] Speaker 2: And I said, Okay, that's great, that's step one. But
[48:24] Speaker 2: did you do step two?
[48:25] Speaker 1: Yes?
[48:25] Speaker 2: Would you write down the solutions? He goes, oh, whoops,
[48:28] Speaker 2: completely forgot to do this.
[48:29] Speaker 1: Say that's sort of more what I meant by it.
[48:31] Speaker 1: You know, it's a funny story. I have a funny story.
[48:33] Speaker 1: So many many years ago, a long time ago'd be
[48:35] Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, Anthony Robbins asked me to do
[48:37] Speaker 1: a speech at one of his functions in Sydney. I
[48:40] Speaker 1: had never done a speech and there was like a
[48:42] Speaker 1: thousand people there and was at the Casino in Sydney.
[48:46] Speaker 1: And so what I did is I prepare the speech
[48:49] Speaker 1: on a little Thursday's little palm card card. See you know,
[48:53] Speaker 1: like I might have had twenty just so that like
[48:55] Speaker 1: had a four or five bill of points on each
[48:57] Speaker 1: page and they could hit him that palm my hand.
[49:00] Speaker 1: And someone told me to do that. So I did that,
[49:02] Speaker 1: and when I went out there on the stage. Before
[49:05] Speaker 1: before I went out the stage, someone said to me.
[49:08] Speaker 1: One of the stage manager goes, look all the people
[49:11] Speaker 1: are pre sending up on the chairs because Tonly just
[49:12] Speaker 1: walked off. We're all standing up in the chairs, are
[49:14] Speaker 1: all chanting, and like it was like they were in
[49:16] Speaker 1: some sort of hypnotic state. You know, they're doing something.
[49:19] Speaker 1: He said, they won't stop unless when you get up there,
[49:22] Speaker 1: you're going to go, WHOA. You got to do this
[49:24] Speaker 1: with your arms and bring them down, and he said
[49:26] Speaker 1: they'll all sit down. And that's like some hypnotic stept
[49:30] Speaker 1: that he creates for because he hadn't there from six
[49:32] Speaker 1: in the morning to eleven and night. Anyway, I'd never
[49:35] Speaker 1: done any of those for I was quite young. I
[49:37] Speaker 1: was like fortyth on me and I walked up with
[49:40] Speaker 1: these things and I did that and all my cards
[49:43] Speaker 1: went all over the stage, And that would have been
[49:46] Speaker 1: a good opportunity. That's a Michaelhilps moment. That's when your
[49:49] Speaker 1: goggles come off and you've got to still got one
[49:51] Speaker 1: hundred and fifty meters to go, and maybe what you
[49:53] Speaker 1: could what I could have done, is make a joke
[49:55] Speaker 1: about it, you know, like, oh, there you go my
[49:58] Speaker 1: notes and tend to walk off of something. You know
[50:02] Speaker 1: what I'm saying that that would be and then then
[50:03] Speaker 1: that would have sort of put me in a more
[50:05] Speaker 1: relate say, yeah, I would have cool, especially if I'm
[50:07] Speaker 1: gonna laugh from them, that would have been pretty fine. Yeah,
[50:10] Speaker 1: that's that's brilliant. So it's your book. So so I
[50:13] Speaker 1: mean it's a tobey what do we get from anywhere?
[50:16] Speaker 2: The books are sold?
[50:17] Speaker 1: So it's called big trust. So You've got your four aspects,
[50:20] Speaker 1: so that lands it's big trust that lands it trusting
[50:23] Speaker 1: your trusting what.
[50:24] Speaker 2: Trusting yourself yourself specifically your worthiness, your capability yep, your control,
[50:31] Speaker 2: your ability to influence what you can control, and your
[50:34] Speaker 2: ability to manage the emotions that you feel. Lining up
[50:37] Speaker 2: with each of these four attributes. Now, what's really cool, Mark,
[50:40] Speaker 2: is that this is not just like my ideas. These
[50:43] Speaker 2: four the psychological drivers behind these four have been shown
[50:46] Speaker 2: in decades worth of research. When they come together, I
[50:49] Speaker 2: always see it like power rangers. When they come together,
[50:52] Speaker 2: they predict your job performance, your career success, your satisfaction
[50:57] Speaker 2: in your career, even how much money you make. And
[51:00] Speaker 2: it's even been trying to influence your relationships. So if
[51:03] Speaker 2: you have greater self trust, it impacts every single area
[51:06] Speaker 2: of your life. And you can see why you're not
[51:09] Speaker 2: stuck in your head so much. You're not stuck in
[51:10] Speaker 2: the overthinking, you're actually living in your life rather than
[51:14] Speaker 2: living in your head.
[51:15] Speaker 1: It's interesting you use the word trust because it's sort
[51:18] Speaker 1: of a bit of an elusive word as to what
[51:21] Speaker 1: it means. We use it all the time, and one
[51:25] Speaker 1: of the ways I sort of try to reconcile the
[51:28] Speaker 1: word relative to for example, brands, building a brand, everyone
[51:33] Speaker 1: goes I want to have a brand that's trusted, And
[51:36] Speaker 1: I often say, for me, trust is about familiarity. So
[51:41] Speaker 1: I trust what I'm most familiar with. So I trust
[51:44] Speaker 1: my family because I raise them, I've been with them,
[51:48] Speaker 1: I've seen how they're act on a certain circumstances ago.
[51:50] Speaker 1: Four sons are all different, they'll react differently, but I
[51:53] Speaker 1: know so I know what I'm going to get, So
[51:56] Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the situation. Therefore I trust them. Where
[52:01] Speaker 1: in terms of familiarity, where would that sit in your
[52:06] Speaker 1: trust faces? So is it about being familiar with your responses?
[52:11] Speaker 2: Is that what it is?
[52:12] Speaker 1: Like I know what's potentially I know what's going to happen.
[52:16] Speaker 2: It absolutely does. So what we mapped these four elements,
[52:20] Speaker 2: they shape someone's doubt profile, which is almost like their
[52:24] Speaker 2: psychological fingerprint for how dalt shows up. And once you
[52:27] Speaker 2: understand your baseline and where you are, that gives you
[52:30] Speaker 2: that level of familiarity because you know that in this
[52:33] Speaker 2: particular situation, when I'm being asked a question on the
[52:37] Speaker 2: spot and I'm in the middle of a meeting, a
[52:38] Speaker 2: high stakes meeting. My acceptance is going to be speaking
[52:42] Speaker 2: to me because it's low. It's going to say you
[52:43] Speaker 2: don't even deserve to be here. My agency is going
[52:46] Speaker 2: to be questioning you don't even have the skills to
[52:48] Speaker 2: articulate what you want to order. So I know that
[52:51] Speaker 2: that's my default response, which then means I know what
[52:54] Speaker 2: I need to focus on as a solution. It's not
[52:56] Speaker 2: just one big blob of solution. It's well, I need
[52:58] Speaker 2: to develop my acceptance in that step space and strengthen
[53:01] Speaker 2: my agency, so that idea of familiarity comes from self awareness.
[53:05] Speaker 2: The problem with self doubt, which is why it's such
[53:07] Speaker 2: a big problem today, is there are so many distractions
[53:10] Speaker 2: that we have lost touch with ourselves because so many
[53:13] Speaker 2: people are so stuck in the doing, even if the
[53:15] Speaker 2: doing is spending an hour scrolling on social media, consuminguman consuming,
[53:20] Speaker 2: not allowing ourselves to be with ourselves.
[53:22] Speaker 1: Have a moment bored for change.
[53:23] Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, it's amazing how we've lost.
[53:25] Speaker 1: The ability to be bored and feel comfortable.
[53:28] Speaker 2: And feel comfortable with being bored. So we actually have
[53:31] Speaker 2: an online tool. So the idea of big trust, it's
[53:35] Speaker 2: a form of self leadership, self leadership. The definition of
[53:38] Speaker 2: self leadership is leading your thoughts and your behaviors to
[53:42] Speaker 2: get the outcomes that you want. You know, we understand
[53:45] Speaker 2: leadership in terms of other people. We rarely talk about
[53:47] Speaker 2: it from ourselves. It's an incredible skill and in fact,
[53:50] Speaker 2: I do believe that over the next few years, especially
[53:53] Speaker 2: as AI is taking off, especially as the world is
[53:56] Speaker 2: changing so rapidly, self leadership is going to be the
[53:59] Speaker 2: ultimate headitive advantage.
[54:01] Speaker 1: Because we're giving agency to everything else at the monment.
[54:03] Speaker 2: Exactly, it's not about how many skills you have or
[54:05] Speaker 2: how talented you are. It's whether you take action based
[54:08] Speaker 2: on what you know, and that comes down to big
[54:10] Speaker 2: trust and that self leadership. So if anyone listening wants
[54:13] Speaker 2: to figure out what their DEALT profile is, we've got
[54:16] Speaker 2: an online assessment. I mean, yeah, get the book. Where
[54:18] Speaker 2: is it? It's called Self Leadership Test dot Com.
[54:21] Speaker 1: Self Leadership Test dot Com. Yeah one, and do you
[54:25] Speaker 1: discuss that in here?
[54:26] Speaker 2: Yes? And it goes through and there's actually a twelve
[54:28] Speaker 2: question quiz at the beginning, which is based on a
[54:31] Speaker 2: research backed tool, and it breaks it down so you
[54:35] Speaker 2: find out your score across the four dimensions.
[54:38] Speaker 1: Self Assessment yeah, the self doubt profile exactly. Just finally,
[54:42] Speaker 1: if you don't mind, should I just one thing? Finally,
[54:45] Speaker 1: let's say, and this happens all the time the small
[54:47] Speaker 1: business community, particularly particularly those who are in technology or
[54:50] Speaker 1: that a lot of Australians are in America and what
[54:53] Speaker 1: have you. And they have this view that they've got
[54:58] Speaker 1: a network and they've got to turn up to FUNK
[55:00] Speaker 1: and they've got to meet because they might there might
[55:02] Speaker 1: be investors there, or there might be other technologists there,
[55:04] Speaker 1: or they might be other successful people there can give
[55:07] Speaker 1: them tips as to how they should run their business.
[55:09] Speaker 1: And someone there might be there that could potentially as
[55:11] Speaker 1: to become an advisor on the advisory board. Yet you
[55:16] Speaker 1: know you're and let's say you're a female in it's
[55:20] Speaker 1: hard to when you're female because like most of these
[55:22] Speaker 1: things are dominated by guys, the seft doubt creeps in
[55:27] Speaker 1: very quickly. It's probably critical because I go to these
[55:34] Speaker 1: things sometimes I see them. I can tell and they're
[55:37] Speaker 1: dying to come and talk to me or going to
[55:38] Speaker 1: talk to someone else, but they don't. But they're there
[55:41] Speaker 1: for that purpose. That's the reason they're there. But they
[55:44] Speaker 1: don't end up because they're probably being rejected or maybe
[55:47] Speaker 1: someone's when they did talk to somebody, someone didn't show
[55:49] Speaker 1: any interest in them, and they mentiately take that as
[55:52] Speaker 1: I'm not very interesting. Therefore, next time I go, I'm
[55:55] Speaker 1: going to be careful as opposed to saying, well, that
[55:58] Speaker 1: guy might have been a bad day or potentially he
[56:00] Speaker 1: just lost an invest.
[56:01] Speaker 2: May the maybe's you know, maybe that.
[56:04] Speaker 1: What would you say to these people who because because
[56:07] Speaker 1: you know, you have to be known in the various communities,
[56:11] Speaker 1: because that's unless people know, they're not going to lend
[56:14] Speaker 1: to you or invest in you, whatever the case would be,
[56:16] Speaker 1: what do you say to those people about in terms
[56:18] Speaker 1: of the four things you just talked about, I'm going
[56:21] Speaker 1: to give a takeaways. Quack your duck, Quack you're duck.
[56:24] Speaker 2: Okay. There's a story that goes with it. It's a
[56:26] Speaker 2: short one. When I started my career, so I started
[56:29] Speaker 2: working in the law. I'm a lawyer by background, and
[56:31] Speaker 2: I moved into banking. When I first moved into banking,
[56:33] Speaker 2: I was so full of self doubt and I started
[56:35] Speaker 2: in a call center and I was, I mean, who
[56:38] Speaker 2: calls a bank unhappy customers? So this call center was
[56:41] Speaker 2: getting hammered by extremely extremely irate customers, to the point
[56:46] Speaker 2: that people on the floor would regularly have to go
[56:49] Speaker 2: outside to cry to like expel the emotion. So what
[56:52] Speaker 2: management did is a genius, genius strategy. They gave everyone
[56:56] Speaker 2: a quack duck.
[56:57] Speaker 1: What are they like, the.
[56:58] Speaker 2: Squeaky Dutch they make a little squad kids players exactly.
[57:01] Speaker 2: They gave everyone on the floor one of these, and
[57:03] Speaker 2: they created a tally board. So they said, every time
[57:05] Speaker 2: you get an unhappy customer, quack your duck so the
[57:08] Speaker 2: rest of the people can hear it, walk yourself over
[57:10] Speaker 2: to the tally board and calculate your unhappy customer tally.
[57:14] Speaker 2: And remarkably, within a couple of days, people weren't going
[57:17] Speaker 2: outside to cry. They were quacking their duck, getting some
[57:20] Speaker 2: giggles from the people around them, and tallying it up.
[57:22] Speaker 2: They had turned something really negative and highly emotionally charged
[57:27] Speaker 2: into something fun. They gamified it, and they made it
[57:30] Speaker 2: less about the negative customer and more about the Hey,
[57:32] Speaker 2: I did the thing again. I showed up again, giving
[57:34] Speaker 2: your brain proof points of I can be yelled at
[57:37] Speaker 2: and swore at and be okay. And so this is
[57:39] Speaker 2: the idea of just showing up anyway, and counting the
[57:42] Speaker 2: times you showed up, not the times that it was successful,
[57:45] Speaker 2: not the times that you had someone respond with a
[57:47] Speaker 2: positive enthusiasm. So, if you're going to any of these events,
[57:51] Speaker 2: if you're doing anything and you're doubting yourself, and maybe
[57:53] Speaker 2: you've been rejected or you've had people say no to you,
[57:57] Speaker 2: give yourself a tick tally that up. You showed up,
[57:59] Speaker 2: You went and asked, get yourself a duck if it
[58:02] Speaker 2: if it helps you, remember we.
[58:04] Speaker 1: Just have some fun thing at home.
[58:05] Speaker 2: Anything, It can be anything. The idea is it's just
[58:08] Speaker 2: a pattern interrupt, you know, like a recorder or a
[58:10] Speaker 2: bell or something. Again, you get home from that event,
[58:13] Speaker 2: you're like, you know what, no one talked to me.
[58:14] Speaker 2: I'm ringing my bell.
[58:15] Speaker 1: I showed up.
[58:16] Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it again the next time to have
[58:19] Speaker 2: a laugh. And you can say, you know what, this year,
[58:21] Speaker 2: I went to three hundred events and I didn't get
[58:22] Speaker 2: a single callback. That's a record.
[58:24] Speaker 1: Cool.
[58:24] Speaker 2: How many can I do? Okay, Look, if you get
[58:26] Speaker 2: to three hundred and no one, there's an issue.
[58:28] Speaker 1: So then but then you go to work. What can
[58:30] Speaker 1: I learn from that?
[58:31] Speaker 2: Exactly? What can I learn from this? Maybe I need
[58:33] Speaker 2: to get better at how I'm presenting myself. Maybe I'm
[58:35] Speaker 2: going to the wrong kinds of events. Maybe I need
[58:37] Speaker 2: another avenue. Bring it back to what can I do,
[58:40] Speaker 2: which is your autonomy. Remind yourself it's not a reflection
[58:43] Speaker 2: of your value. That goes back to acceptance. Focus on
[58:46] Speaker 2: how you can get better with the skill of meeting
[58:49] Speaker 2: people and interacting and networking. That's agency, and then learn
[58:53] Speaker 2: to navigate the emotions that come with it. With the
[58:55] Speaker 2: quacking of the duck, So that's my guidance, don't allow
[58:58] Speaker 2: it to stop, you learn from it, keep going, keep
[59:01] Speaker 2: showing up, because unless you show up, you will never
[59:04] Speaker 2: get to where you want to go to.
[59:05] Speaker 1: You've got to show up. And it's interesting that I
[59:07] Speaker 1: was just thinking that the cracking of the duck. Whether
[59:09] Speaker 1: people do that literally or not, but that's an example
[59:11] Speaker 1: of you already know that you're going to do that.
[59:14] Speaker 1: If it doesn't work out, it's a bit like you
[59:16] Speaker 1: gog gog wills coming off. That's like an adaptability. You're
[59:19] Speaker 1: making yourself much more adaptable. Yes to shitty situations like
[59:23] Speaker 1: something to work out the way I want to do it,
[59:24] Speaker 1: and I might just ask you just quickly if you
[59:26] Speaker 1: don't mind. At the end, should we put too much
[59:29] Speaker 1: importance on that event? So there's a networking event on Monday,
[59:33] Speaker 1: and you know you want to go because there's how
[59:35] Speaker 1: do we do it? Take the importance away though, but
[59:39] Speaker 1: at the same time make sure that we're ready, we're on,
[59:42] Speaker 1: you know, like, because if you go off it's not important.
[59:43] Speaker 1: Well you turn up and act like it's not important.
[59:46] Speaker 1: How do you sort of get that balance right?
[59:47] Speaker 2: Two things? The first one is I don't have to
[59:49] Speaker 2: make this means so much. Remember we talked about that
[59:51] Speaker 2: as an adaptability tool. I don't have to make this
[59:53] Speaker 2: mean so much. But also, instead of what if what
[59:57] Speaker 2: if no one talks to me? What if it goes badly?
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: Shift into I wonder whether I wonder whether I'll meet
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: someone who's interested in my business tonight. I wonder who
[1:00:06] Speaker 2: I'll meet? I want shifting from what so what ifs
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: is that idea of the flashlight we're shining it on
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: thread all the things that could go wrong? I wonder
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: whether shifts it into possibility? And again you could go
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: through the Phelps scenario or just stick with something as
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: simple as I wonder whether it changes your state It
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: changes your state, which then shapes how you're showing up,
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: which shapes how you're responding to people and how they
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: respond to you, which then changes outcomes. One final tip
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: here as well. It's something called embodied cognition. So think
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: about the person you want to be, Think about the
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: person that they're going to be interested in, think about
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: the person that they're going to invest in. How does
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: that person show up in rooms? How do they speak,
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: how do they dress, how do they walk into that event?
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: And then be that before it's come to you perform, perform,
[1:00:55] Speaker 2: but authentically you're trying to become someone else. You're just
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: exactly you're just step into that next version of you. Fascinatingly,
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: studies have shown in neuroscience and cognitive behavior, when you
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: do this, when you show up as that person, Remember,
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: the brain responds to proof and evidence. So if you're
[1:01:11] Speaker 2: showing up as the person you want to be, your
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: brain is getting evidence and proof points of the person
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: that you want to be, which then makes you start
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: to feel that you are already that, which then changes
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: how you're going to have the conversation, how you're going
[1:01:25] Speaker 2: to speak with the.
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: Persons, how you're going to exactly, brain.
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: Plas completely and again it all comes down to training
[1:01:31] Speaker 2: and this idea of attention, and that's another example of
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: big trust. You trust that you have what it takes
[1:01:37] Speaker 2: and if they recognize it, great, If they don't, you
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: will still come to the next.
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: One, or to some sense say bad luck.
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful way to look at it.
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: It's not rejection. It's readirectly.
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: They don't really understand this stuff. That's you know, maybe
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: I'll talk to them again. If I get a chance,
[1:01:50] Speaker 1: I'll get I'll get through to mo. Otherwise, maybe I'll
[1:01:53] Speaker 1: come be bothered. I'll just go to the next station tory.
[1:01:58] Speaker 1: It's amazing how we can actually pipulate around brain.
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. It also makes us realize how
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: fallible we are.
[1:02:04] Speaker 1: But tell me, so, if that's the case, if I'm
[1:02:07] Speaker 1: manipulating my own neurons, what am I using to manipulate
[1:02:12] Speaker 1: my own neurons? I mean, what neurons are you using
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: to change my own neurons?
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: Okay, so this is a good question. It all comes
[1:02:17] Speaker 2: down to the conscious mind versus the subconscious or unconscious mind.
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: So a lot of our you know, when we're not
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: consciously using our mind, which means you're just thinking about
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: the day and the beliefs are popping up and you're
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: not good enough. That is the unconscious, subconscious realm driven
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: by beliefs. So how we change our neurons is by
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: using the conscious mind, which in my view is like
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: you're taking consciously taking your flashlight and pointing at somewhere else.
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: And when you use your conscious mind to change your thoughts,
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: and you do that enough times over time, that is
[1:02:47] Speaker 2: how you create a new neural pathway, a new set
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: of beliefs, a new set of beliefs. Now, it takes
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: time because these beliefs have been developed very early on
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: in life. But like anything, practice, practice, practice, repetition, build.
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: Oh one other thing we didn't get to touch on
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: practice what we call conscious affiliation, which means be aware
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: of who you spend time with because they have such
[1:03:09] Speaker 2: a huge influence on who you are, how you feel,
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: how you show up, your beliefs, your perspectives. It's called
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: the social spillover effect. In fact, one study was done
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: at a tech firm and they found if you sit
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: within twenty five feet of a high performer, your own
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: productivity goes up on average about fifteen percent, so it
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: has productivity benefits, but also this idea of emotional contagion.
[1:03:31] Speaker 2: We catch the emotions of the people around us, but
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: we also catch their beliefs. If they believe in us
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: and believe that we are capable, we are more likely
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: to believe that we are capable and more likely to
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: actually succeed. If they do not believe in us, we
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: are less likely to believe in ourselves and more likely
[1:03:47] Speaker 2: to live down to their expectations. So the people around
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: you cap your potential. So choose your circle wisely.
[1:03:54] Speaker 1: Pick someone way above you. Yeah, but aspire to bee emulate,
[1:03:59] Speaker 1: not compare a spot or be better.
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: It will be better or even better.
[1:04:03] Speaker 1: Really nicely, that was fantastic.
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: This is great. Thank you so much.
[1:04:06] Speaker 1: Thank you

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