# Politics Expert on the the Rise of One Nation & Gen Z’s Voting Shift

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 7 May 2026, 58 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/3fbdfe91-9268-4a8d-849b-b443004c11e0/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

In this conversation, political strategist and pollster Kos Samaras explains how Australia’s political landscape is fragmenting beyond recognition. He reveals why traditional Liberal and Labor voters are abandoning both major parties, how disillusioned Australians are turning to One Nation and the Greens, and why the country is heading toward a more divided political future. From the collapse of manufacturing in regional Australia to the psychological impact of Melbourne’s lockdowns, Samaras breaks down the economic, cultural and generational forces reshaping Australian democracy. He also explores why younger Australians are losing faith in the system, why many no longer believe they can afford children or home ownership, and how social media algorithms are accelerating political polarisation across the country. Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: God sa Mars. Well straight to it, mate, thank you,
[0:02] Speaker 1: thank you for a long time getting here. I've been
[0:04] Speaker 1: listening to it forever.
[0:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it took us a bet a month.
[0:07] Speaker 1: Kick it off, mate. What did you think of the
[0:09] Speaker 1: Victorian by election on the weekend?
[0:11] Speaker 2: Nothing really surprised me. There really the poor areas of
[0:14] Speaker 2: the Pean for your listeners. In the Peans, a traditionally
[0:19] Speaker 2: blue ribbon liberal seat has been for a long time.
[0:23] Speaker 2: Labor went at once in a landslide. Seventy five percent
[0:26] Speaker 2: of his population lives within two kilometers of the beach,
[0:31] Speaker 2: so it's prime mill estate down there. Well, yeah, lots
[0:34] Speaker 2: of lots of asset and wealth older, much older, very wealthy,
[0:39] Speaker 2: you know, multi million dollar mansions. It is a really
[0:43] Speaker 2: nice part of the world.
[0:44] Speaker 1: So they should never have lost it. Did they lose ground?
[0:48] Speaker 2: They lost They lost a seat in twenty eighteen during
[0:51] Speaker 2: the landslide against Dan Andrews. And you know, I was
[0:54] Speaker 2: working for them at the time and I still can't
[0:57] Speaker 2: figure out how they how they lost it, as in
[0:59] Speaker 2: when I was working for the labor side, right, still
[1:02] Speaker 2: can't work out how we won that seat because it's
[1:04] Speaker 2: just on paper, deep blue except for some suburbs like Rosebud.
[1:10] Speaker 1: And within within the ward, within the area.
[1:12] Speaker 2: Within the area, right, and that's further away from the water,
[1:16] Speaker 2: more blue collar, a lot of people working with their hands,
[1:18] Speaker 2: standing on their feet. And one nation's primary there was
[1:22] Speaker 2: forty percent in that particular suburb, yes, right, which then
[1:26] Speaker 2: tells me, yeah, of course, you know, the the punters
[1:30] Speaker 2: on in Dromada, we're never going to vote for Paul
[1:33] Speaker 2: and Anson because we know nationally the you know, she's
[1:37] Speaker 2: she's attracting a particular top of Australian who is largely older,
[1:43] Speaker 2: you know, usually in the forties, fifties and sixties, who
[1:47] Speaker 2: are working class, and they could they predominantly have a
[1:50] Speaker 2: Liberal voting background, you know, in country to popular belief,
[1:54] Speaker 2: the Liberal Party did have a working class base. It's
[1:57] Speaker 2: basically lost all of its working class bays.
[2:00] Speaker 1: Which is crazy. Like when I was growing up where
[2:02] Speaker 1: I grew up, that's in the west of Sydney, the
[2:06] Speaker 1: Labour Party were completely dominant, probably still are to this
[2:09] Speaker 1: very day. Yeah, what does it take to be a
[2:13] Speaker 1: person like you? Because Smars runs the red Bridge, owns
[2:16] Speaker 1: red Bridge. Did you found red Bridge yourself? Yeah?
[2:19] Speaker 2: We found found it back in late twenty nineteen.
[2:22] Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen. What does it take to be this guy?
[2:27] Speaker 1: You know, does polling all the time, you know, knows
[2:30] Speaker 1: the sort of makeup of the demo, demography of Australian
[2:32] Speaker 1: right down to the suburbs.
[2:34] Speaker 2: Right down the suburbs and streets. We're going to be?
[2:36] Speaker 1: What sort of person we we are? A mathematician or
[2:39] Speaker 1: something or did.
[2:39] Speaker 2: You really always enjoyed mass enjoyed history, the way human
[2:43] Speaker 2: beings interact with each other. What makes human beings tick?
[2:47] Speaker 2: You know, me and now the directors really into psychology.
[2:52] Speaker 2: That's a huge overlooked part of the political world when
[2:57] Speaker 2: assessing it. But the big thing for me is that
[3:01] Speaker 2: I tend to and I've always through my entire life,
[3:04] Speaker 2: I'm very comfortable in chaotic, stressful environments. The more fragmented
[3:12] Speaker 2: it is, the more comfortable I am. And I tend
[3:15] Speaker 2: to function really well in those environments if everything's normal
[3:18] Speaker 2: and stable, Yeah, don't. I don't enjoy it as.
[3:22] Speaker 1: Much as John Howard period, not as.
[3:24] Speaker 2: Good, Yeah, because that was very predictable.
[3:27] Speaker 1: In the early in the early days, early days.
[3:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean John Howard ninety only six to one
[3:32] Speaker 2: in a landslide you know, come two thousand and seven,
[3:37] Speaker 2: rud comes in, doesn't necessarily win a landslide, but there's
[3:40] Speaker 2: a conversion of the votes between the two sides. Life
[3:43] Speaker 2: is stable, life is predictable. Politically for the corporate world,
[3:47] Speaker 2: they know how they've got to deal with it. Who's
[3:49] Speaker 2: in government at the time. Their government advocacy teams will
[3:52] Speaker 2: have to deal with You know that that that particular
[3:55] Speaker 2: minister will wing whether it's blue or red. And that's
[3:58] Speaker 2: been the business to adapt. Yeah, but that's been the
[4:01] Speaker 2: business model now for decades. Right, that's now ended.
[4:04] Speaker 1: But what actually picture your fascination for this stuff.
[4:07] Speaker 2: When I was working for the labor side, again, they
[4:09] Speaker 2: were very traditional in the way they approached their campaign.
[4:12] Speaker 2: It's just like the liberal side.
[4:13] Speaker 1: When you say working, you mean campaign.
[4:15] Speaker 2: Baining base, that's right.
[4:16] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[4:16] Speaker 2: I didn't work in a minister or office or anything
[4:18] Speaker 2: like that. My job was to get him elected, yep.
[4:21] Speaker 2: And I just knew that the methods they were using
[4:26] Speaker 2: were not really i'll say efficient. Right. So my first
[4:34] Speaker 2: day at the job there was I walk in and
[4:36] Speaker 2: they've got this great big newsletter that's got fifteen hundred
[4:39] Speaker 2: words in it, and I know through so I've worked
[4:41] Speaker 2: previously in illustration and advertising. I just knew that you've
[4:46] Speaker 2: got fifteen seconds to grab someone's attention, and you're rolling
[4:49] Speaker 2: up with this entire diet tribe in a glossy newsletter
[4:54] Speaker 2: I guess put in someone's letterbox. It doesn't survive the
[4:58] Speaker 2: distance from the letterbox to the bin. It's just simple
[5:01] Speaker 2: things like that. Free to wear advertising right now, for example,
[5:06] Speaker 2: we know that's going for a decline across the entire market.
[5:09] Speaker 2: Isn't just about politics. If you turn on your free
[5:15] Speaker 2: to wear TV at nighttime, those who do you will
[5:17] Speaker 2: notice that the ads have changed. They're pitching to a
[5:20] Speaker 2: much older group of Australians.
[5:22] Speaker 1: Who don't look at these things.
[5:23] Speaker 2: That's right, correct, right, and so long gone are the
[5:25] Speaker 2: years where you ran a political campaign. You spent eight
[5:30] Speaker 2: million dollars on TV advertising, three million dollars in radio
[5:33] Speaker 2: and two million dollars in print. That's gone now, right,
[5:37] Speaker 2: You're actually sitting here the podcast fragmented media market trying
[5:43] Speaker 2: to reach people who are news avoiders. Seven to two
[5:46] Speaker 2: percent of all Australians last year didn't did not purchase news.
[5:50] Speaker 1: Really, well, what do you mean purchase news?
[5:53] Speaker 2: What is purchase so we asked him the question, and
[5:56] Speaker 2: we enlisted all the news mass heads as in print
[5:59] Speaker 2: print news, which which one of these items did you
[6:03] Speaker 2: subscribe to a pay for seventy percent? Said? None, really none.
[6:09] Speaker 1: I mean I guess I do because I have to.
[6:10] Speaker 1: But so the others. The twenty episode of the Probably
[6:13] Speaker 1: People in Business, Yes, it's.
[6:15] Speaker 2: Basically people who are politically engaged. So again that goes
[6:19] Speaker 2: back to my old job, when I had young staffers
[6:22] Speaker 2: walking in my office and said, did you see what's
[6:24] Speaker 2: on the front page? I said, well, that's not the
[6:25] Speaker 2: audience I'm trying to reach. They're not reading that front page.
[6:28] Speaker 2: They probably will never see it, right, I'm more concerned
[6:32] Speaker 2: about that thirty two year old bloke in Frankston, you know,
[6:36] Speaker 2: or in Penrith, Right, So no accident. In twenty fourteen China,
[6:41] Speaker 2: you reached that thirty two year old bloke in Frankston
[6:43] Speaker 2: or Pendruth. We in Victoria announced that we're going to
[6:48] Speaker 2: legalize UFC because at the time cage fighting was illegal
[6:52] Speaker 2: in Victoria.
[6:52] Speaker 1: It was here for a while too. That's right, dominic Verite, that's.
[6:55] Speaker 2: Right, and so we legalized it and Boom reached them
[6:59] Speaker 2: straight out.
[7:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I mentioned that to Chris Min's I said,
[7:03] Speaker 1: you should reverse it because West Australia is getting all
[7:05] Speaker 1: the business.
[7:05] Speaker 2: That's right.
[7:06] Speaker 1: I soon to recall the front page of cyneymooning here
[7:08] Speaker 1: they talked about bringing CAGEU with the UFC to Sydney.
[7:13] Speaker 1: Blood sport. People want to go watch it.
[7:15] Speaker 2: Well, it's a working class sport. And we go back
[7:18] Speaker 2: to that one nation conversation. I mean, what is some
[7:22] Speaker 2: of the gripes that these voters have. It isn't just
[7:24] Speaker 2: about the economy and the political class abandoning them. There's
[7:28] Speaker 2: also a sense by these Australians that they know that
[7:31] Speaker 2: I have no cultural connection with the political class anymore.
[7:35] Speaker 2: That's why, of course the political class and to a
[7:38] Speaker 2: certain extent some in the media who belong to the
[7:42] Speaker 2: same social circles, find the UFC a blood sport.
[7:45] Speaker 1: Right.
[7:47] Speaker 2: The reaction from the political class in twenty fourteen was
[7:50] Speaker 2: exactly that. They even ran ads saying Labour's going to
[7:53] Speaker 2: legalize this. And I'm thinking that's completely misreading the cultural
[7:58] Speaker 2: footprint of of the state.
[8:01] Speaker 1: When you said that, I was just thinking about Trump
[8:03] Speaker 1: turning out the UFC.
[8:04] Speaker 2: Same thing.
[8:04] Speaker 1: If you could reflect on Trump for a moment. Is
[8:07] Speaker 1: he he and or his advisory team? Are they smarter
[8:12] Speaker 1: than were given credit for up until this year? Yeah,
[8:15] Speaker 1: let's take a run out of.
[8:16] Speaker 2: Let's take a run out of because I think that
[8:18] Speaker 2: is a monumental that is actually burning his own base, right,
[8:21] Speaker 2: but arely turning on him at the market.
[8:22] Speaker 1: But in terms of his campaigns to get elected, particularly
[8:26] Speaker 1: the second campaign, totally against the odds. Do you think
[8:29] Speaker 1: they are smarter than we all give them credit?
[8:31] Speaker 2: And he's smarter than people think he is. Yes?
[8:35] Speaker 1: Do you think it's because he has he's in touch
[8:38] Speaker 1: with it. It's the normal person, he's average perse touch
[8:42] Speaker 1: with him.
[8:43] Speaker 2: That's the key. Right. So, if you're a political activist
[8:45] Speaker 2: to await an aspiring politician, and you have a very
[8:48] Speaker 2: strong cultural connection to the to a growing number of
[8:52] Speaker 2: voters out there that are becoming quite challenging, you're you've
[8:56] Speaker 2: got you've got a massive advantage. Few politicians in this
[8:59] Speaker 2: country have that way, is it? Because they come up
[9:03] Speaker 2: through social circles which are very different, Right? And part
[9:05] Speaker 2: of the criticism that you know, whether it's people in
[9:08] Speaker 2: the media or the broader public have about our political
[9:10] Speaker 2: class is many of them. You know, first job they
[9:13] Speaker 2: have is in politics, second job they have is in politics,
[9:17] Speaker 2: and the third job that they have is that is
[9:18] Speaker 2: becoming an MP. Right. And what happens when you enter
[9:22] Speaker 2: that world your social circles changed completely. You're no longer
[9:26] Speaker 2: interacting with people that have no interest in politics whatsoever.
[9:30] Speaker 2: You are absolutely thrust into social environments where everyone wants
[9:35] Speaker 2: to talk to you about politics. So you have this
[9:38] Speaker 2: outsized view of how important politics is to people. So
[9:43] Speaker 2: hence a scandal internally within it within the political world
[9:47] Speaker 2: may be huge in the political world, but outside people
[9:50] Speaker 2: just going to work stuff. No one gizze stuff. Right.
[9:54] Speaker 2: Trump has that and still has it, but I think,
[9:58] Speaker 2: you know, we can not talk about it run because
[10:01] Speaker 2: that's obvious. He's completely calculated, that's right. But generally speaking,
[10:07] Speaker 2: his team very switched on. They knew exactly what they
[10:11] Speaker 2: had to speak to. I mean they up until Trump
[10:14] Speaker 2: turned up. The Democrats thought they didn't have to address
[10:18] Speaker 2: the economic plot of working class people because they were
[10:21] Speaker 2: relying on demographics alone. Their view was Hispanics are on
[10:25] Speaker 2: a huge growth trajectory in the US. We have eighty
[10:29] Speaker 2: five percent of them voting for us. We're locked in
[10:32] Speaker 2: until Trump turned up and started talking to young Hispanic
[10:35] Speaker 2: men about class issues, not identity issues, right so.
[10:40] Speaker 1: But something class issues.
[10:42] Speaker 2: Well, Trump was able to talk to them about issues
[10:44] Speaker 2: that concerned them, their job, their life, their family standard living,
[10:50] Speaker 2: a sense of being abandoned by the political class economically.
[10:54] Speaker 2: And what he was saying to these young men was, yeah,
[10:57] Speaker 2: I know you're Hispanic, but that's not what you bind
[11:00] Speaker 2: you in this country. And that's kind of actually very
[11:03] Speaker 2: clever because one of the criticism, again I have about
[11:06] Speaker 2: the political class in this country is they over egg
[11:09] Speaker 2: the identity of people, particularly the left side of politics
[11:13] Speaker 2: and the right. The right does it in a different way,
[11:15] Speaker 2: but also fumbles it just as much and forgets that
[11:19] Speaker 2: the basic needs of people, right I wrote. I wrote
[11:23] Speaker 2: a substate piece about the Indian deaspro I said, let
[11:26] Speaker 2: me explain to you a cohort in this country. You know,
[11:30] Speaker 2: they have two or three kids, They've got a mortgage
[11:33] Speaker 2: in the outer suburbs of Melbourne or Sydney, They've got
[11:35] Speaker 2: an s u V. The kids go to private school.
[11:39] Speaker 2: They they have private health insurance by choice, and they
[11:43] Speaker 2: aspire to run a successful small business and earn a
[11:46] Speaker 2: lot of money, and they're they're and they're socially conservative.
[11:49] Speaker 2: Who they should be voting for Liberal Party the Indian Australians, right,
[11:55] Speaker 2: and again they should be voting them, They should be
[11:57] Speaker 2: voting them, but they're not.
[11:58] Speaker 1: They don't. They don't.
[11:59] Speaker 2: They vote vote predominantly for the labor labor labor side
[12:02] Speaker 2: of politics because they feel that the Liberal Party doesn't
[12:07] Speaker 2: like them. The antimmigration narrative has really really hurt the
[12:10] Speaker 2: Liberal Party in that space. And again because these these
[12:13] Speaker 2: these communities are still evolving, they're still bringing family over,
[12:16] Speaker 2: they're still trying to do what our parents did when
[12:20] Speaker 2: they come over here from Europe. It took them ten
[12:24] Speaker 2: to fifteen years to fully bring everyone over right or
[12:28] Speaker 2: make that decision, so that family reunion process is not
[12:31] Speaker 2: completed for these people when they say they feel attacked,
[12:34] Speaker 2: that sounds obvious to me once you explain it to me.
[12:37] Speaker 2: But why does the Liberal Party continue doing it? Yeah,
[12:40] Speaker 2: So if you were to say to these even to
[12:42] Speaker 2: the Indian Australians, do you think immigration levels are high?
[12:44] Speaker 2: Of course the answer is yes. If you live in Melbourne, Sydney,
[12:47] Speaker 2: you know that we're bringing into many people for the
[12:50] Speaker 2: infrastructure that we have in place at the moment. But
[12:54] Speaker 2: it's about how you deliver that message, right, And so
[12:57] Speaker 2: the problem for the conservative side of politics is they've
[13:00] Speaker 2: been framing that narrative in a way that.
[13:03] Speaker 1: Is anti immigration.
[13:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, anti immigration is anti me.
[13:07] Speaker 1: Yeah really, I'm an immigrant, you're anti me? Yeah, right,
[13:11] Speaker 1: and my family who potentially could be coming a vagrant.
[13:13] Speaker 2: It's not like there's no nuance in the way they
[13:15] Speaker 2: are delivering it. And I don't know whether it's because
[13:18] Speaker 2: they where they come from, but they've completely stuffed it up.
[13:21] Speaker 2: I mean, Chinese and Indian Australia should be.
[13:23] Speaker 1: Voting for Liberal Party, yeah, Duley, That's why I get
[13:26] Speaker 1: confused all the time. A good example of that is
[13:29] Speaker 1: Scott Jung from the Benelong Seed. Yeah great, the Chinese
[13:33] Speaker 1: vote against.
[13:34] Speaker 2: Him, Yes, I did, yep, absolutely, And up until up
[13:37] Speaker 2: until Scott Morrison, they were voting Liberal in the majority,
[13:42] Speaker 2: not in an entirety, but in the majority. They were
[13:44] Speaker 2: a really good constituency for the Liberal Party.
[13:47] Speaker 1: But what's the message that they're getting wrong? But let's
[13:49] Speaker 1: take Paramatta for example, the city where we have a
[13:51] Speaker 1: lot of Indians at Harris Park. Do you get down
[13:54] Speaker 1: to the part of how you frame the words.
[13:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it's something to do with the Little Party
[13:59] Speaker 2: walking and from that small business constituency as well.
[14:02] Speaker 1: Do you think they're walked away from it? Is it
[14:04] Speaker 1: a conscious decision or I don't think it's conscious, just
[14:07] Speaker 1: the stuff up.
[14:08] Speaker 2: It's just they've not been focused on it. And I
[14:10] Speaker 2: thought Peter Dutton was going to at that federal election
[14:12] Speaker 2: and now it's a massive small business.
[14:14] Speaker 1: Package, so I was hoping it would investment allowances and
[14:18] Speaker 1: all also.
[14:18] Speaker 2: Be game over for anyone because there are millions of
[14:22] Speaker 2: Australians now that are own small business. These two communities
[14:25] Speaker 2: we've been talking about a massive small business communities, but
[14:29] Speaker 2: that extends beyond these two communities. You know, tradees, you
[14:33] Speaker 2: go to Melbourne and City in particular, but also Brisbane.
[14:35] Speaker 1: Professional doctors who running their own business, their own practice.
[14:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, they're everywhere. There are millions upon millions of
[14:42] Speaker 2: Australians that not only work for small business I work
[14:46] Speaker 2: for them or run them.
[14:48] Speaker 1: The AHA says two point four million of them. That's
[14:50] Speaker 1: the proprietors, correct, that's not including who works for them.
[14:54] Speaker 2: And this is important right because when we survey the employees,
[14:57] Speaker 2: they have an intimate relationship with the boss. So when
[15:01] Speaker 2: the left side of politics gangs up on small business,
[15:03] Speaker 2: and I think you would have noticed, they've actually stopped
[15:06] Speaker 2: over the last few years. Yea, they have, right, because
[15:08] Speaker 2: there's a realization these employees care about their boss. In
[15:13] Speaker 2: many cases, they'll tell you when we'll interview with them
[15:15] Speaker 2: many years ago, they'll tell us share a lot of
[15:17] Speaker 2: Christmas time we go around to the boss's home, that
[15:21] Speaker 2: that's the Christmas gathering. You know, I really get stressed
[15:23] Speaker 2: when I see him or her not not been able
[15:27] Speaker 2: to manage the business. Well, that means my job's under threat, right,
[15:30] Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff.
[15:30] Speaker 1: And I go him to my partner and my partner
[15:32] Speaker 1: gets nervous.
[15:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, correct. And also people have a very strong
[15:36] Speaker 2: community bond to small business, so they get really upset,
[15:39] Speaker 2: particularly in regional Australia, when they see small businesses shut.
[15:42] Speaker 2: It's a it's a psychological thing. That is that if
[15:45] Speaker 2: your local environment starts showing signs of decay, economic decay,
[15:51] Speaker 2: you bring that upon yourself. Even if you're doing well,
[15:54] Speaker 2: if you're living in an area that's economically declining because
[15:57] Speaker 2: shops are boarding up, that has a that's a political impact.
[16:01] Speaker 1: But the problem with the villa its causes is it's
[16:03] Speaker 1: incredibly complicated. Yes, it really is. I mean we can
[16:07] Speaker 1: see to talk about stats, and we're talking a little
[16:09] Speaker 1: bit more about some assats, but what is a solution.
[16:12] Speaker 1: Like Labour's losing touch with us working class roots, Liberals
[16:17] Speaker 1: not picking it up. Liberals aren't talking to the small business, smaller,
[16:24] Speaker 1: medium enterprise business class roots. They're going to labor. In
[16:28] Speaker 1: some cases, liberals is not talking to those people come
[16:31] Speaker 1: to the country and who are aspirational Labor is because
[16:36] Speaker 1: labor's letting him in, yes, correct, yeah, in, and they
[16:39] Speaker 1: gave me citizenship.
[16:40] Speaker 2: That's their working class replacement. The Labour's lost the old
[16:44] Speaker 2: working class. Yeah. I mean we can talk about my
[16:46] Speaker 2: my mates that I grew up. You know, I grew
[16:48] Speaker 2: up in Meta Heights for you know, for those of
[16:50] Speaker 2: who your listeners don't know, it's in the sort of
[16:53] Speaker 2: it's where the Ford Motor plant was in Melbourne. Every
[16:57] Speaker 2: migrant family migrated out out there because that's where they're
[17:00] Speaker 2: jobs were. It wasn't just the Ford factory, was the
[17:03] Speaker 2: supply chains around it. You know, my mates that I
[17:08] Speaker 2: went to school with, all of them went to forward.
[17:11] Speaker 2: I didn't because I'd spent two weeks in a factory
[17:14] Speaker 2: and thought not the same for me. It's hard work,
[17:16] Speaker 2: really hard work, right, And probably the time around when
[17:21] Speaker 2: the Ford was showing signs of collapsing in Australia that
[17:26] Speaker 2: some of them left early, some of them left when
[17:28] Speaker 2: it was when the announcement was made. They all went
[17:32] Speaker 2: voting during that period, they went voting liberal, so they
[17:37] Speaker 2: jumped from labor to liberal and now they're all voting
[17:40] Speaker 2: one nation.
[17:41] Speaker 1: Really is that is that age related to at least
[17:45] Speaker 1: it is in the fifties, they're on the fifties. The
[17:48] Speaker 1: part that really sort of confuses me is that people
[17:52] Speaker 1: want to vote one nation, but most people wouldn't even
[17:56] Speaker 1: know what the policy is because they haven't even released
[17:58] Speaker 1: a policy. We know what that they're standing on immigration is, yes,
[18:01] Speaker 1: of course we know some of the personalities, you know,
[18:04] Speaker 1: the Barnaby, Paul et cetera. Probably probably only those two.
[18:10] Speaker 1: But is that because it's a default vote. I don't
[18:13] Speaker 1: like the elegies of vote for them. Yeah.
[18:14] Speaker 2: Number one reason, well, there's a number of reasons, but
[18:16] Speaker 2: the number one reason they're choosing to vote for one nation,
[18:19] Speaker 2: that is the grip that's moved to one otion over
[18:21] Speaker 2: the last six months is I want the place to
[18:23] Speaker 2: burn down. Yeah.
[18:26] Speaker 1: We actually asked that in the question do you want
[18:27] Speaker 1: the place to burn down?
[18:28] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[18:28] Speaker 1: They want to straight two party system down either system. Yes, yeah,
[18:32] Speaker 1: they're not only unhappy with what's the alternative of the
[18:34] Speaker 1: two parties, but they actually want to clear amount.
[18:37] Speaker 2: Yes. It's also we go back to that culture thing.
[18:41] Speaker 2: When you speak to these Australians, you get this deep
[18:43] Speaker 2: sense that they go they're not they're not They're not us.
[18:46] Speaker 1: It's something labor and level.
[18:48] Speaker 2: They're not us. They belong to a different class. They
[18:51] Speaker 2: have no idea about my life, my pressures, my community,
[18:54] Speaker 2: you know, my family, my mates. They're not us. And
[18:58] Speaker 2: whenever I see them done on a footy shirt or
[19:01] Speaker 2: kick a ball around, they look awkward and weird because
[19:04] Speaker 2: they're not us, right, they just live a totally different life.
[19:08] Speaker 2: They're the they're the one One person described them in one
[19:11] Speaker 2: of our groups is they're the chosen ones, the elite. Yes, correct, right,
[19:16] Speaker 2: and so I want to bring them down. Wow, that's
[19:20] Speaker 2: that's how visceral it is, right, and that's the you can't.
[19:24] Speaker 1: A jealousy thing like you to have a psychology before.
[19:27] Speaker 1: Is it envy or jealousy or is it just discussed.
[19:30] Speaker 2: It's a mixture of all everything. I mean people, all
[19:33] Speaker 2: of us as humans, we've got very complex, contradicting emotions. Right,
[19:38] Speaker 2: there will be an element of jealousy there, but there
[19:40] Speaker 2: will be an element of the conservative in particular status anxiety.
[19:44] Speaker 2: Like you're in your fifties, you'll promise that if you
[19:47] Speaker 2: worked hard, you're put in the hours at work you
[19:50] Speaker 2: worked at you you know, whether you're trading or or
[19:53] Speaker 2: a career in healthcare. You know for women that you'd
[20:00] Speaker 2: as a family pay off your mortgage. None of that
[20:02] Speaker 2: is happening right for a lot of these strains that
[20:06] Speaker 2: have moved to one nation. The other trait attached to
[20:10] Speaker 2: them is financial stress.
[20:12] Speaker 1: But how do they think one nation will help them?
[20:14] Speaker 1: Or is it more a reaction to the other two?
[20:17] Speaker 1: You cause it, you can f off? Absolutely not because
[20:21] Speaker 1: I think one nation can fix it. No, correct, they
[20:23] Speaker 1: don't think one nation is going to fix so because
[20:25] Speaker 1: I've been wondering because for a lot a long time now,
[20:27] Speaker 1: and in fact I've had this conversation with a few people.
[20:30] Speaker 1: I said, one nation needs to put out a policy
[20:33] Speaker 1: or did I say manifesto on there? What are their
[20:37] Speaker 1: policies on outside of immigration, the economy, the growth economy, defense,
[20:44] Speaker 1: water security, blah blah blah, whatever you know, the care economy.
[20:48] Speaker 1: We don't know what they stand for yet. What surprised
[20:51] Speaker 1: me is people are defaulting to them. Yeah, but that's dangerous,
[20:55] Speaker 1: that's risky for us to default to somebody.
[20:58] Speaker 2: Yes, but they view that politics either has it at
[21:02] Speaker 2: this stage detrimental impact on their lives or no impact
[21:06] Speaker 2: at all.
[21:06] Speaker 1: So that you can't help me. And what I'm what
[21:09] Speaker 1: I want to do is as you said, called drains want.
[21:10] Speaker 1: I want to get rid of you. Correct, I'm filthy
[21:12] Speaker 1: on you. So it's more than I just don't want
[21:14] Speaker 1: to vote for you anymore. You don't suit me. I
[21:17] Speaker 1: am dark on you. Get out of my life.
[21:19] Speaker 2: Get out of my life. And then when you speak
[21:21] Speaker 2: to them, you know, and some of the guests you've
[21:23] Speaker 2: had on your show talking about the state of the country,
[21:26] Speaker 2: it's inability to be self sustaining.
[21:28] Speaker 1: Chris Shuity for example, Yeah, correct, right.
[21:30] Speaker 2: Not being able to actually tap into the absolute opportunity
[21:34] Speaker 2: of this country has to offer all that's also there.
[21:37] Speaker 1: Do I vote to see about that. Absolutely, they're not
[21:39] Speaker 1: just seeing about my business at home. I'm a law
[21:42] Speaker 1: mowing specialist, and I'm getting less jobs to more people's laws,
[21:46] Speaker 1: or I've had to drop my price. They think about
[21:50] Speaker 1: broader stuff.
[21:51] Speaker 2: Since the pandemic. Absolutely our inability to take care of ourselves.
[21:55] Speaker 2: It's the best way I can actually sum it up
[21:58] Speaker 2: is that it is absolutely always coming up. Not an
[22:00] Speaker 2: inability to take care of myself, but country, the country.
[22:03] Speaker 2: Absolutely so thinking in a macro sense, macro sense. So again,
[22:06] Speaker 2: we've got a fuel crisis. Why did we Why did
[22:10] Speaker 2: these bozos allow the oil refineries to be closed?
[22:14] Speaker 1: I didn't realize people sort of think this way.
[22:17] Speaker 2: They do, they will bring it up all the time.
[22:19] Speaker 1: I just thought it's people that like knarks like me
[22:22] Speaker 1: who want to wing about the stupidity of way things
[22:24] Speaker 1: are run because.
[22:25] Speaker 2: It costs the money. The reason I'm paying three dollars
[22:29] Speaker 2: in diesel right now is because you clowns shipped everything
[22:33] Speaker 2: overseas and close the refineries down. Get correct and stop
[22:37] Speaker 2: looking for oil. And yes, but is that media drivenly?
[22:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, they getting their ideas from media or they're working
[22:43] Speaker 1: these ideas out of themselves. I mean how much is
[22:44] Speaker 1: an important question, Yeah, because they wanted to how much intelligence?
[22:48] Speaker 1: And I don't mean in a normal sense, I don't
[22:51] Speaker 1: mean to a few sense, but how much intelligence understanding
[22:54] Speaker 1: of information we should we attribute to the to the
[22:57] Speaker 1: consumer dash Voda.
[22:59] Speaker 2: They are gathering their information from now multiple sources, even
[23:04] Speaker 2: amongst older Australians, particularly gen X's it's the podcast ecosystem.
[23:11] Speaker 2: They are harvesting their own information. We could talk to
[23:15] Speaker 2: them about all sorts of issues and they will probably
[23:17] Speaker 2: be able to pluck out a particular person that listen
[23:20] Speaker 2: to or follow online. Do they trust legacy media? No,
[23:24] Speaker 2: But does legacy media act like a noise in the background, Yes,
[23:28] Speaker 2: so they picking a bit of that up as well.
[23:31] Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a mix. It's in a cauldron, right.
[23:33] Speaker 2: But what I think is the Gen two media is
[23:36] Speaker 2: a lot to describe it, which is this and many
[23:39] Speaker 2: other formats has availed them with an opportunity to basically
[23:43] Speaker 2: get alternative opinions. It's no accident that long form conversations
[23:48] Speaker 2: are popular amongst even older boomers. People want nuanced conversations
[23:54] Speaker 2: around complex issues.
[23:56] Speaker 1: But do you think there's a lot to do with
[23:57] Speaker 1: the then the algrams within those gener and media feeding
[24:02] Speaker 1: them more of what they like to listen to. So
[24:04] Speaker 1: because I find amazing the number of people recently coming
[24:07] Speaker 1: to me and said, oh that Chris Joy, we love that.
[24:09] Speaker 2: Interview do with christ Joy?
[24:11] Speaker 1: Yes, but they're people who watch Chris Joy anyway, irrespective
[24:15] Speaker 1: whether it does it with me, And so they become
[24:18] Speaker 1: a me listener now as a result of talking to
[24:20] Speaker 1: Chris Joy. But the and the reason I listened to
[24:23] Speaker 1: me though, was the algorithm fed me to them because
[24:27] Speaker 1: YouTube knows that they like to listen to Chris Joy. Correct,
[24:31] Speaker 1: so they're hearing more of what they like. And I
[24:33] Speaker 1: can tell you to by the way that went from
[24:34] Speaker 1: young people and I'm thinking, well, what's that young person
[24:37] Speaker 1: got to do with that older person over there who
[24:39] Speaker 1: also said the same thing to me? And usually it's
[24:43] Speaker 1: the only comment doomen I can draw is that they're
[24:44] Speaker 1: aspirational people. Yes, you know, they want to make money,
[24:48] Speaker 1: they want the ability to make money, or they're.
[24:49] Speaker 2: Interested in in the well being of the country.
[24:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, I also have an altruistic view of things to.
[24:57] Speaker 2: Which feeds into their own self well being too. The
[25:00] Speaker 2: two are connected. You know, you can be you can
[25:03] Speaker 2: most Australians, whether they diverse or not, whether they are
[25:06] Speaker 2: a multi generational Australians have a very strong view that
[25:11] Speaker 2: right now the health and well being of the country
[25:15] Speaker 2: matters to them because it actually impacts them too, right
[25:19] Speaker 2: and well, especially since the pandemic. Before the pandemic, you
[25:24] Speaker 2: would have less of that as a sentiment, right things
[25:27] Speaker 2: were I would say things were rosy, but things were okay.
[25:30] Speaker 2: You didn't have to think more. Most Astraians will not
[25:33] Speaker 2: think beyond their suburbs, beyond their background, their backyard sort
[25:36] Speaker 2: of thing. Earious. Right, We've now had two global shocks
[25:40] Speaker 2: since twenty twenty, and most Australians now know that these
[25:45] Speaker 2: global shocks are a signal that the world is changing
[25:49] Speaker 2: and the world they're living in has changed drastically and
[25:52] Speaker 2: it's having a financial impact on them.
[25:54] Speaker 1: So does a realization of vulnerability that we're not bullet
[25:57] Speaker 1: bulletproof like we've always thought.
[25:59] Speaker 2: One hundred percent called like your country, you could do.
[26:01] Speaker 2: You can get on with your life, you mind, enjoying business,
[26:04] Speaker 2: and nothing really mattered. Now it all matters. You know
[26:07] Speaker 2: what the US president does matters, right? You know how
[26:13] Speaker 2: countries respond to pandemics matter how governments respond to outbreaks matter.
[26:19] Speaker 2: You know, the difference between the psychological state of people
[26:23] Speaker 2: in Melbourne right now versus people in Brisbane is drastically different.
[26:27] Speaker 1: Well that's just Brisbane are happy and Melbourne's sad.
[26:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of PTSD amongst people because they
[26:33] Speaker 2: got lockdown. Yeah yeah.
[26:34] Speaker 1: And but also the stuff that followed, like you know,
[26:37] Speaker 1: the land tax and the people exiting that Melbourne prices
[26:40] Speaker 1: going down when everyone else is going up for house
[26:42] Speaker 1: price of like think Melbourne was the star.
[26:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's more to do with the trauma associated
[26:50] Speaker 2: with those lockdowns.
[26:52] Speaker 1: It was that bad.
[26:53] Speaker 2: The international psych community has already put together a number
[26:58] Speaker 2: of papers on Melbourne. We are actually our international interest
[27:03] Speaker 2: case study, case study, correct, right, And no one really
[27:07] Speaker 2: pays much attention to that because, of course, once the
[27:10] Speaker 2: pandemic has done, everyone wants to forget about it. It's
[27:12] Speaker 2: a human that's a human condition and response to all
[27:15] Speaker 2: sorts of black Swan events. But I think the political class,
[27:20] Speaker 2: particularly in Victoria, really did underestimate the psychological impacts on that.
[27:25] Speaker 2: The mental health status of young gen Z right now
[27:29] Speaker 2: in melbourne's drastically different to Brisbane.
[27:32] Speaker 1: They're ready for change because I don't.
[27:34] Speaker 2: Want to change, but the liberal rules are not a.
[27:36] Speaker 1: Change because I've never do now understand, And I got
[27:38] Speaker 1: businesses down in Melbourne, like fifty six branches, and I
[27:41] Speaker 1: go and talk to my guys and my guys also
[27:43] Speaker 1: we hate the current government and we hate Dan and
[27:46] Speaker 1: Andrew Dunlody like the current premier. But then every time
[27:51] Speaker 1: this election Labor win because.
[27:53] Speaker 2: Then you ask them a question, well what do you
[27:54] Speaker 2: think of the other mold and their response is are
[27:56] Speaker 2: they're just as bad?
[27:57] Speaker 1: So what happens? Is it like before votes is going
[28:01] Speaker 1: to be quite big in Victoria really at a federal
[28:03] Speaker 1: level to it? No? Now state state, state level, state level.
[28:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, so you think.
[28:07] Speaker 1: About So there's a lecture coming out this year, Yeah,
[28:09] Speaker 1: November November this year. Do you expect to change?
[28:13] Speaker 2: No? I expect fragmentation. I don't know what the result
[28:16] Speaker 2: is going to look like. So that we started the
[28:19] Speaker 2: conversation with an a p and by election. Now this
[28:21] Speaker 2: seat which is in Victoria, which is in Victoria, this
[28:24] Speaker 2: seat should have been walking a park for the little Party.
[28:27] Speaker 2: They should have went a primary. Loane Labor wasn't standing.
[28:31] Speaker 2: There was an independent. Sure, that's challenging these days, but
[28:35] Speaker 2: by and large it should have been Okay, there's one nation, Yeah,
[28:38] Speaker 2: one nation stood. They copp a ten percents wing against
[28:40] Speaker 2: them in an environment where you have a twelve year
[28:44] Speaker 2: old government that is also suffering from that COVID lockdown syndrome, right,
[28:50] Speaker 2: that's going to hit them e literally. And so you
[28:53] Speaker 2: have a situation where there's a mood for change, but
[28:56] Speaker 2: the blue size.
[28:57] Speaker 1: Not not not the change, not the answer.
[28:59] Speaker 2: That's we go back to our our conversation about rip
[29:03] Speaker 2: tear the placedown, and I think that when you when
[29:06] Speaker 2: you speak to most people in Victoria or across the country,
[29:12] Speaker 2: they kind of not really happy without duopoly at the moment.
[29:15] Speaker 1: Because there's funny I reatin artic in this train about
[29:17] Speaker 1: the talk that we're interviewing Ashby and Pauline, And actually
[29:20] Speaker 1: the headline was burned the Place Down. That was headline,
[29:24] Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, that's pretty dramatic, and now you're
[29:26] Speaker 1: using it so that that.
[29:28] Speaker 2: Comes from our stuff. We we published that sentiment I
[29:30] Speaker 2: think in the fin Review a couple of months ago. Yeah, yeah,
[29:33] Speaker 2: burned the Place Down.
[29:34] Speaker 1: I didn't have a sense that it got that as
[29:36] Speaker 1: that dramatic yes, is this just Victoria.
[29:39] Speaker 2: Across across the board, it's across the board.
[29:41] Speaker 1: Is that Queensland as well, Yes, notwithstanding that they've got
[29:44] Speaker 1: a Liberal Party state government.
[29:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing. Yeah, So you know, you go to
[29:49] Speaker 2: you go to queens And the other thing about Queensland
[29:52] Speaker 2: and the country is we've become quite balk Andized politically too now.
[29:56] Speaker 2: So so aside from that one nation that we've been
[30:00] Speaker 2: talking about Labor, what's left on Labour's pile and what's
[30:04] Speaker 2: left on Liberal pile and so on is now quite solid.
[30:07] Speaker 2: And if there's any fragmentation, it's usually within the to
[30:10] Speaker 2: their flanks. So that nep and by election, the Liberals
[30:15] Speaker 2: lost votes to one nation. I didn't lose it to
[30:18] Speaker 2: the independent who's from the left right. Equally, if Labor
[30:22] Speaker 2: was standing, they wouldn't have lost it to Labor. Albanezi
[30:24] Speaker 2: won ninety four seats because his opponent collapsed, not because
[30:28] Speaker 2: he actually grew his fair share of the pie. In
[30:31] Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, became prominis to the country because his
[30:34] Speaker 2: opponent collapsed. In the UK, Stamer won the election with
[30:39] Speaker 2: a landslide result with a record low primary because his
[30:44] Speaker 2: opponent collapsed and collapsed into reform, right, So we're seeing
[30:47] Speaker 2: these fragmentation of blocks, and whoever can keep their block
[30:51] Speaker 2: that together the most wins. That's what November and Victoria
[30:56] Speaker 2: will look like.
[30:57] Speaker 1: Is one nation therefore similar to reform in the UKs.
[31:03] Speaker 2: Absolutely same sentiment, same sort of I would say attraction.
[31:07] Speaker 2: It's something different. It's attracts to people who have historically
[31:11] Speaker 2: voted conservative, but also to a lesser extent here in
[31:15] Speaker 2: this country labor and also in the UK there are
[31:17] Speaker 2: labor voters who are voting for reform, much older labor voters,
[31:22] Speaker 2: younger people though very different in this country and the UK.
[31:28] Speaker 2: You mean, so the most progressive person in this country
[31:31] Speaker 2: is a twenty five year old woman in Australia. In Australia,
[31:34] Speaker 2: and that's using an atypical voter model as a voter.
[31:38] Speaker 2: As a voter, the most progressive voter in the country
[31:41] Speaker 2: is female. He's female, twenty five close enough, Yeah, and
[31:44] Speaker 2: doing what like what doesn't matter, what occupation doesn't matter.
[31:48] Speaker 2: It cuts right across, right.
[31:49] Speaker 1: So, and when you say most progressive, that means what.
[31:52] Speaker 2: Voting for the Greens. Yeah, so eighteen to twenty eight
[31:57] Speaker 2: year olds, this is Generation Z and in Australia on
[32:01] Speaker 2: average around forty percent of them planned for the Greens.
[32:04] Speaker 1: Is it because they're going for environment or they're going
[32:06] Speaker 1: for left.
[32:08] Speaker 2: It's an economic populist response to financial stress. So their
[32:11] Speaker 2: response to everything that you and I have been talking
[32:13] Speaker 2: about is a left wing one, not a right wing one.
[32:16] Speaker 2: And we're seeing that in the UK as well now
[32:18] Speaker 2: with the Greens winning. That's that's seed in Manchester off labor.
[32:23] Speaker 1: The Greens the same in the UK as Yes, right.
[32:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, well I would argue the Greens in the UK
[32:27] Speaker 2: have captured that economic populist mantra a lot better.
[32:30] Speaker 1: Can you explain what economic populist means?
[32:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, So the difference between economic populist versus right wing
[32:37] Speaker 2: populism is that your grievance is going to park itself
[32:41] Speaker 2: on a platform that is about redistributing wealth, blaming the
[32:46] Speaker 2: beg end of town, blaming institutions for your plight. So
[32:52] Speaker 2: you're going to have a response that is not about
[32:55] Speaker 2: my issues are not because of immigration, and you use
[32:58] Speaker 2: immigration because you want you want, you want me to
[33:01] Speaker 2: not blame that big corporate that's actually causing the problem.
[33:04] Speaker 1: They actually articulate that one hundred.
[33:05] Speaker 2: Percent right, so very different and maybe because they are
[33:08] Speaker 2: a generation that's growing up with the internet and that
[33:12] Speaker 2: you know, when you and I were growing up, if
[33:13] Speaker 2: we want, if we wanted to write to someone who
[33:15] Speaker 2: wanted to talk to someone who was who was our age,
[33:18] Speaker 2: we'll have to write to them with a pen and paper,
[33:19] Speaker 2: put them, put the letter in an envelope, put a
[33:21] Speaker 2: stamp on it and send it right now. You could
[33:24] Speaker 2: just do it straight away, right, And so they're a
[33:26] Speaker 2: truly globalist generation. And it's just why differently told the Australiants.
[33:32] Speaker 1: But what don't they like about the big institutions or
[33:36] Speaker 1: the begind of town? What is it they don't like
[33:38] Speaker 1: is that you've got they've got too much money, got
[33:40] Speaker 1: too much influence, or more importantly, they're taking all the
[33:44] Speaker 1: cream and leaving them nothing.
[33:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, so it runs from sentiments around housing. So why
[33:51] Speaker 2: are you unable to buy home?
[33:54] Speaker 1: Why am I unable to buy it? Because I'm twenty five.
[33:57] Speaker 1: I'm a twenty five year old girl, that's right. Why
[33:58] Speaker 1: am I unable to buy myself?
[34:00] Speaker 2: The answer is because this country is rewarded investors in
[34:04] Speaker 2: the beginnings of town for far too long, giving them
[34:07] Speaker 2: all these tax breaks and ballooned our property price to
[34:12] Speaker 2: a point where now it's a fantasy for me to
[34:14] Speaker 2: be able.
[34:14] Speaker 1: To So this is into generational unfairness. Correct, that's just
[34:18] Speaker 1: going to come up in the budget.
[34:19] Speaker 2: That's right. So what do you so, I'm asking this person, so,
[34:22] Speaker 2: do you plan to have kids in your life? No?
[34:24] Speaker 2: Fifty percent of young Australians report to us they don't
[34:30] Speaker 2: plan to have kids.
[34:31] Speaker 1: Do they want to or they just don't.
[34:33] Speaker 2: Some of them do, Yeah, they just can't afford it.
[34:35] Speaker 1: Right, It's an affordability, yes, it's.
[34:36] Speaker 2: Affordability for women. It's a lot more primal. It's without
[34:40] Speaker 2: having that security of a roof over your head.
[34:44] Speaker 1: I kind of a kid, kind of a kid, yep,
[34:47] Speaker 1: And I'm not going to get it. I'm not going
[34:48] Speaker 1: to go get a bloke to do it for me. Yeah, right,
[34:50] Speaker 1: because that's changed as well.
[34:51] Speaker 2: That's changed as well. Correct. And then you have about
[34:55] Speaker 2: half of them also skip medical appointments when they need
[35:00] Speaker 2: them because they can't afford it.
[35:02] Speaker 1: Wow.
[35:02] Speaker 2: Right, we can go down that list, right. I mean
[35:05] Speaker 2: that the financial impact on young Australians is quite severe.
[35:09] Speaker 2: Hex's debt has ballooned in this country to a point
[35:12] Speaker 2: where now it is a major issue.
[35:14] Speaker 1: Because the inflations, which is where they determine the interest
[35:17] Speaker 1: rate is too high. That's right, and then it's accumulating, correct.
[35:21] Speaker 2: And so they so HEX is a major issue. So
[35:25] Speaker 2: you promised me that if I study hard, I went
[35:29] Speaker 2: to university, I'll be set up for life.
[35:31] Speaker 1: Now I'll get a job and I'll pay it off
[35:32] Speaker 1: real fast, off, real fast.
[35:34] Speaker 2: Into the professional classes, as the society promised me. Do
[35:39] Speaker 2: all the right things and I'll be right. Well, I
[35:40] Speaker 2: did all that econmy and I'm cooked. Yeah right, And
[35:45] Speaker 2: now I've got AI hit me. I don't have a job,
[35:47] Speaker 2: that's right, and AI right is now? I mean AI
[35:51] Speaker 2: won't affect you and I. But for these younger Australians
[35:54] Speaker 2: who are coming from a university right now, certain occupations
[35:58] Speaker 2: they're studying are going to be extinct within twelve months.
[36:02] Speaker 2: Yeah right, And so they've got a hex's debt for
[36:06] Speaker 2: something that basically they can't for a qualification that is
[36:10] Speaker 2: now a dinosaur for fiel data. Yes, and of course
[36:15] Speaker 2: to the point of AI. So then they hear the
[36:17] Speaker 2: political class say no, no, we don't need to put
[36:19] Speaker 2: guardrails around AI. And how that's implemented. We can't curtail
[36:23] Speaker 2: the role out of AI because it will impact our
[36:25] Speaker 2: economy and someone out productivity. Yeah, correct, and their response
[36:30] Speaker 2: young person's response, Yeah, because you're lining your pockets have
[36:34] Speaker 2: been lined by the beginning of town.
[36:35] Speaker 1: Does it matter if there's any actual truth or evidence,
[36:42] Speaker 1: proper evidence, or can the evidence ever be contested? Or
[36:46] Speaker 1: they just accept the proposition and that's it. They don't
[36:48] Speaker 1: actually sit around and saying, oh wonder if somebody out
[36:51] Speaker 1: there can tell me whether they begin to collect town
[36:53] Speaker 1: is actually causing this problem?
[36:56] Speaker 2: You know, whether I think the problem there is. They
[36:59] Speaker 2: are open to conversation, but I think the work that
[37:02] Speaker 2: should have been done by corporate Australia wasn't done.
[37:05] Speaker 1: So they made their minds up and they're not going
[37:07] Speaker 1: to change it.
[37:07] Speaker 2: Do you think curding social license with the community now
[37:10] Speaker 2: is probably one of the most important jobs for corporates
[37:14] Speaker 2: full stop.
[37:14] Speaker 1: Let's say we're talking at the Common Bank, for example,
[37:16] Speaker 1: our biggest bank in the country. Do you think that
[37:18] Speaker 1: they just as a business decision that they should be
[37:21] Speaker 1: talking to or developing better social license with their potential
[37:28] Speaker 1: customers for the future. Absolutely, because you and I aint
[37:31] Speaker 1: going to be customers because we're going to drop off
[37:33] Speaker 1: your perch. So I got to go and get the
[37:35] Speaker 1: new recruits to recruited, lower the lower age.
[37:38] Speaker 2: And the reason you've got to do that is because
[37:40] Speaker 2: we're entering into a volatile political environment. You soon or
[37:44] Speaker 2: later are going to get rash panic decisions from political parties.
[37:48] Speaker 2: You don't want a particular political party viewing you as
[37:53] Speaker 2: an easy escape route to their problem. You the bank,
[37:56] Speaker 2: for example, You the bank, you're being will worstle coals.
[37:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, which is sort of bubbling at the moment.
[38:00] Speaker 2: We could see that coming right where where Well, the
[38:03] Speaker 2: way I get myself elected is I agreet to some
[38:08] Speaker 2: of these populous, irrational offerings on the table and suddenly
[38:12] Speaker 2: you've got these You've got policies that are costing your millions.
[38:16] Speaker 2: The way you protect yourself is you build a bond
[38:18] Speaker 2: with that community. So when the political class come comes asking,
[38:23] Speaker 2: they know they will pay a price if they challenge
[38:25] Speaker 2: something that the public trusts. Yeah. Right, and that's where
[38:29] Speaker 2: I think we're We're now entering into a new paradigm where, yeah,
[38:34] Speaker 2: don't rely on your on Canberra, rely on yourself.
[38:37] Speaker 1: Where are the most voters though?
[38:38] Speaker 2: They do.
[38:39] Speaker 1: They sit in this this eight into a thirty year
[38:41] Speaker 1: old bracket. I mean, where's the growing voter base.
[38:45] Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's it's Gen Z, right, So we still
[38:47] Speaker 2: got another five years of Generation Z to enrolls to vote. Right,
[38:51] Speaker 2: Once that process is completed, we'll have about five point
[38:53] Speaker 2: two million, five two five point two million of them
[38:56] Speaker 2: rolls to vote in this country.
[38:57] Speaker 1: What's a total voting group.
[39:00] Speaker 2: It's about eighteen ninety million and strains at the moment,
[39:02] Speaker 2: so it's like nearly a third yeah, right, but it
[39:05] Speaker 2: will balloon out to twenty two to twenty three million
[39:07] Speaker 2: by the time they enrolled themselves. Right, So that's a
[39:11] Speaker 2: pretty sizable chunk because forty percent of them voting grain.
[39:15] Speaker 2: Labour's two party preferred vote amongst that generation seventy percent.
[39:18] Speaker 2: What does that mean? What's it mean? Labor two party preferred.
[39:21] Speaker 2: So that's once all preferences are allocated, right, you know,
[39:24] Speaker 2: and you and you give a two party preferred estimate.
[39:27] Speaker 2: What was the percentage again, seventy percent to labor to labor,
[39:31] Speaker 2: so labor will be stay in. Labour's got a cohort
[39:36] Speaker 2: that's coming through now that is very, very favorable to them.
[39:39] Speaker 2: Because again, so women amongst gen Z women are the
[39:45] Speaker 2: most progressive. The blokes, the young blokes. They skewed awards
[39:51] Speaker 2: labor in a very big way. Yeah why yeah, why
[39:55] Speaker 2: don't Well, don't know, right, But their response again, same
[39:58] Speaker 2: issues has we've been to talking about, and we could
[40:02] Speaker 2: see that in the UK and we could see that
[40:03] Speaker 2: in certain parts of Europe as well. Young people's response
[40:06] Speaker 2: to this is an economic populist one. At this stage,
[40:10] Speaker 2: there isn't something for young men as an alternative. They
[40:13] Speaker 2: don't like the Greens for whatever reason, right, so they
[40:17] Speaker 2: opt for labor at the moment. Doesn't mean young people
[40:20] Speaker 2: are not waiting for one nation all liberals and so on.
[40:22] Speaker 2: That's happening too, but very small numbers.
[40:25] Speaker 1: So you're just on the on the two. Like the
[40:27] Speaker 1: men and women that we're talking about eight into thirty
[40:29] Speaker 1: sort of thing as a growing cohort. Let's just look
[40:32] Speaker 1: at the women for a moment. They're turning against labor
[40:36] Speaker 1: and liberal because both of them probably represent the beginning
[40:39] Speaker 1: of town and you're putting me in poverty for the
[40:42] Speaker 1: rest of my life as a blame sort of thing.
[40:45] Speaker 1: Do they think that the Greens can get them out
[40:47] Speaker 1: of that position or is that more a response to reaction.
[40:50] Speaker 1: It's a response for stuff you same, I'll go for
[40:52] Speaker 1: a green same as one nation, and lots of psychology
[40:54] Speaker 1: that because there's like stuff you, I'm going to retaliate. Now,
[40:59] Speaker 1: I'm going to go against what's diametrically opposed.
[41:02] Speaker 2: To part of the establishment. You represent the part of
[41:04] Speaker 2: the world that I think is causing me the problem.
[41:07] Speaker 2: So you're attached to all those big companies, you're attached
[41:10] Speaker 2: to the investor class, you're attached to the home ownership class,
[41:15] Speaker 2: and I'm going to do something else that's not you.
[41:17] Speaker 1: Wow, I could ever win an election then, I know. Right.
[41:19] Speaker 2: And for these young people it's more it's more a
[41:24] Speaker 2: reaction as you put it, right, because when we ask
[41:26] Speaker 2: them about their awareness of politics, it's it's lower than
[41:28] Speaker 2: in any other generation. So they don't pay much attention. Yeah,
[41:32] Speaker 2: so they're not these hyper you know, they don't assume
[41:36] Speaker 2: political news like older Australians do. So, for example, the
[41:41] Speaker 2: the amongst the young Green voter cohort their awareness of
[41:46] Speaker 2: who is leading that party myself at the moment, Yeah,
[41:50] Speaker 2: but they would know right, there's just about in Green
[41:52] Speaker 2: and that's that's a trend right across the world at.
[41:54] Speaker 1: The moment, What would you say needs to happen?
[41:57] Speaker 2: We need to you know, I think this is a
[42:00] Speaker 2: You've had Andrew Hasty talk about this, You've had something
[42:03] Speaker 2: on the Labor Camp, and some of your guests have
[42:06] Speaker 2: talked about this. We need to invest in ourselves and
[42:08] Speaker 2: as a country going forward, and that will give confidence
[42:10] Speaker 2: to all these groups we've been talking about that someone
[42:13] Speaker 2: is worrying about building capacity back into this country, reinvesting
[42:20] Speaker 2: into industries that our kids can actually aspire to work in,
[42:25] Speaker 2: and particularly in a world where and this is something
[42:28] Speaker 2: that's quite common, most people are now fully aware that
[42:31] Speaker 2: the world that they grew up and is gone globalization
[42:35] Speaker 2: and stability. Provided they won't be able to articulate to
[42:39] Speaker 2: you the complexities of how that's happened, but they are
[42:42] Speaker 2: aware that things are no longer working like they used to.
[42:44] Speaker 1: Do you think make Canavan's sort of sort of borrowing
[42:47] Speaker 1: into that sort of category.
[42:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I've hollowed a Matt Canavan Hasty
[42:52] Speaker 2: as two politicians on the conservative side who could really
[42:56] Speaker 2: cause Polly Hands a lot of problems.
[42:59] Speaker 1: If they are or mad is now, Yes, I mean
[43:02] Speaker 1: in a media sense, he's.
[43:03] Speaker 2: Trying, that's right, He's he's got a bit of work,
[43:06] Speaker 2: he's got years to be rebuilt. Right.
[43:07] Speaker 1: But a lot of people say he's going the wrong direction,
[43:09] Speaker 1: that he should actually do a deal with her, with
[43:12] Speaker 1: you know, with one nation, sort of go together as
[43:14] Speaker 1: opposed to attacker. I mean, because I've been trying to
[43:17] Speaker 1: work out what is the thinking that the intelligence behind
[43:22] Speaker 1: attacking someone who looks like she's becoming more popular doesn't
[43:26] Speaker 1: alienate him more. But you're saying he's he's got no choice.
[43:31] Speaker 2: Existential crisis. I think he himself has mentioned it right
[43:35] Speaker 2: where they are fighting for their political careers now they
[43:38] Speaker 2: could easily find themselves extinct as a political movement. This
[43:41] Speaker 2: is the national party outside only specific pockets some regions.
[43:45] Speaker 2: That's right. It is really really a huge problem. So
[43:48] Speaker 2: he has no choice and the Liberal Party has no choice,
[43:50] Speaker 2: but the fine ways to beat them, because yes, labor
[43:53] Speaker 2: might have some problems with one nation, but overwhelmingly the
[43:56] Speaker 2: growth of one nation's come off off the coalition. Do
[44:00] Speaker 2: you think?
[44:00] Speaker 1: And then like the next slection is in two years
[44:03] Speaker 1: is I think twenty eight?
[44:04] Speaker 2: Do you think?
[44:05] Speaker 1: Then therefore there's just probably no chance of Liberal no coalition,
[44:12] Speaker 1: probably one nation.
[44:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely new election. Yeah, here's your problem for if
[44:15] Speaker 2: you're sitting in Angus tyler shoes right now, you're standing
[44:19] Speaker 2: in his shoes. You've lost most of your political territory
[44:22] Speaker 2: in the big cities Melbourne, Sydney. If you're not winning
[44:24] Speaker 2: Melbourne Sydney, you no longer are winning elections.
[44:27] Speaker 1: Then they've won very few metro I don't know if
[44:29] Speaker 1: they won any metro.
[44:30] Speaker 2: Down to eight metropolitan seats across the entire country eight eight,
[44:33] Speaker 2: my god, across eighty eight to eighty nine urban seats
[44:39] Speaker 2: fourteen point five million Australians. Wow, you only have eight
[44:42] Speaker 2: seats and next election you're probably gonna lose two more. Wow. Right,
[44:47] Speaker 2: and again it's all these groups that we're talking about,
[44:49] Speaker 2: young people, diverse Australians, Chinese, India, and all these groups
[44:52] Speaker 2: are living in these big cities, right.
[44:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't move out to No, they're not going out.
[44:56] Speaker 2: To the regions, that's right. And so you're left with
[45:00] Speaker 2: basically a regional footprint, and that footprint's been eaten up
[45:03] Speaker 2: by one nation because where he's one nation really strong,
[45:07] Speaker 2: it's in these regional electorates.
[45:08] Speaker 1: Because the voters are older, older.
[45:10] Speaker 2: They belong to communities that have gotten really hit after
[45:15] Speaker 2: the GFC. So the one thing about manufacturing this country
[45:18] Speaker 2: is yes, it's declined, but it's completely collapsed in the
[45:21] Speaker 2: regional Australia. Now, I'm young enough to remember that when
[45:24] Speaker 2: I first start working, there were abatwars in every single suburb.
[45:28] Speaker 2: I mean, it's an exaggeration, but they were like at
[45:31] Speaker 2: least ninety abatoirs are operating in Victoria, you know, small
[45:36] Speaker 2: small avatars. Yeah, huge, huge hugue.
[45:39] Speaker 1: There's one in Barron Bay.
[45:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. Correct, Now they're all gone and it's gone. Yeah, right,
[45:43] Speaker 2: they're basically all closed down.
[45:45] Speaker 1: They've pretty expensive housing there, that's right, correct, all of that.
[45:48] Speaker 2: Right, Timber industry is contracted, Mining has changed, agriculture has
[45:55] Speaker 2: become more automated and contracted. Every single job that region,
[46:00] Speaker 2: working class Austrains relied on, every industry has drastically declined
[46:06] Speaker 2: or collapsed. That's that's pretty grim, right, And so working
[46:09] Speaker 2: class Austrains in regional Australia, yeah, they are absolutely in
[46:15] Speaker 2: the murder throwing that chessboard over.
[46:18] Speaker 1: So we've got a big structural change right now, Yes
[46:21] Speaker 1: we do.
[46:21] Speaker 2: But politically political, that's what's changing.
[46:24] Speaker 1: And does labor think themselves, Okay, well we've got it
[46:27] Speaker 1: in the cant We've got a budget coming up and
[46:31] Speaker 1: this will go around. But at the same time that
[46:33] Speaker 1: a budget coming up, do you think that labor will
[46:36] Speaker 1: know we announced a couple of games tax on this
[46:38] Speaker 1: in as generational unfairness. Are using those reasons to bring in,
[46:43] Speaker 1: you know, change a couple of games tax rate, get
[46:46] Speaker 1: really negative gearing tax trusts? Do you think they're doing
[46:49] Speaker 1: it to win over the twenty five year old girl
[46:53] Speaker 1: that you're talking about woman you're talking about before.
[46:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, you won't win them over necessarily, but you'll start
[46:57] Speaker 2: talking our language.
[46:58] Speaker 1: Yeah right.
[46:59] Speaker 2: They know that there is no silver bullet. And the
[47:00] Speaker 2: thing about all Australians is, of all the problems that
[47:03] Speaker 2: we've been talking about, one thing that really annoys them
[47:06] Speaker 2: is bandaid politics. They know that they are living in
[47:10] Speaker 2: a country and in the world with a wicked problem. Wow,
[47:13] Speaker 2: you know, how do you fix the housing problem? They
[47:15] Speaker 2: know you can't fix that easily, right, how do you
[47:18] Speaker 2: bring manufacturing back? The one thing I'll say, you know,
[47:21] Speaker 2: back to my mates who used to work at four
[47:23] Speaker 2: they were experts in free trade agreements. They didn't know
[47:26] Speaker 2: anything about anything else, because of course you are very
[47:29] Speaker 2: well versed in things that mattered to you personally.
[47:31] Speaker 1: That's funny elections about that.
[47:33] Speaker 2: What's in it for me? Yeah? Correct?
[47:35] Speaker 1: Right?
[47:35] Speaker 2: Is that right? Yeah? Correct?
[47:36] Speaker 1: That's our boys thought.
[47:37] Speaker 2: That's what It's always been the case, but it's now
[47:39] Speaker 2: more about it's no longer anything for me because it's
[47:42] Speaker 2: these these two shows are not are not in the
[47:46] Speaker 2: business of servicing my needs, in my family's needs. And
[47:50] Speaker 2: so we go back to that point around they're voting
[47:52] Speaker 2: for one nation, they're waiting for the Greens, and that's
[47:54] Speaker 2: increasing and we're getting a polarization in this country now.
[47:57] Speaker 2: So young Australians are moving to the Greens and older
[48:00] Speaker 2: strains are moving to one nation.
[48:02] Speaker 1: And we're getting more division in our country at least,
[48:06] Speaker 1: and people are becoming more less tolerant of each other's
[48:09] Speaker 1: decisions and maybe more in more intolerant. Therefore, don't like
[48:15] Speaker 1: you because you're voting the opposite of where I'm voting.
[48:19] Speaker 1: The older of the algorithm rewards intolerance and division.
[48:23] Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's I mean. Social media companies will know,
[48:28] Speaker 2: you know, make a lot of money off the back
[48:30] Speaker 2: of that.
[48:30] Speaker 1: Scandals is important. It's always worked in media.
[48:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, But the echo chamber effect also has a
[48:36] Speaker 2: has a profound influence on what people see. So there
[48:41] Speaker 2: are things that Tony Barry, the other director in our
[48:44] Speaker 2: in our business, is from the liberal side. What he
[48:48] Speaker 2: tells me because what's on my feed is not on
[48:50] Speaker 2: your feed. Cause but that makes sense. You don't see
[48:53] Speaker 2: then half the things that I see. You know that
[48:56] Speaker 2: One nation's pushing up there, and he's right, I rarely
[48:59] Speaker 2: see anything for one Nation. What do you think about
[49:02] Speaker 2: the Jena bryan Hart involvement with One Nation? I mean
[49:05] Speaker 2: she's a great patriot, It really is a great patriot
[49:07] Speaker 2: in Australia, whether or not you know the politics are right,
[49:10] Speaker 2: and that's another matter. But what do you think about
[49:12] Speaker 2: her involvement now and her push to get one Nation
[49:16] Speaker 2: I guess, into the Lower House and actually run the
[49:18] Speaker 2: company or at least get a at least control the Senate.
[49:21] Speaker 2: Types of voters that are moving to Pauline and One
[49:24] Speaker 2: Nation really don't get bothered about this stuff. I mean,
[49:28] Speaker 2: yes they are. Again, it's not that they're not blaming
[49:31] Speaker 2: the corporates are blaming vested interests for the political class
[49:38] Speaker 2: immigration because you're on the right side of politics, right,
[49:42] Speaker 2: and so that doesn't really hurt if you were chasing
[49:44] Speaker 2: green votes, yeah, that would be a problem, right, if
[49:47] Speaker 2: you're chasing the progressive. But in this country, we've chased
[49:49] Speaker 2: the twenty five year old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, woman, you're
[49:51] Speaker 2: done right, You're not going to They would hate it, absolutely, right,
[49:55] Speaker 2: that's not that's not the game here. So you know,
[49:57] Speaker 2: she's gone and purchased a plane for Pauline and the
[50:01] Speaker 2: left side of politics, and some of the media go, oh,
[50:02] Speaker 2: look that that's bound a herder. No, because the response is, well,
[50:07] Speaker 2: least she's using private money to fly around, Yeah, unlike
[50:09] Speaker 2: those other politicians in Canberra. They use public money.
[50:11] Speaker 1: But they worked that stuff out to them all the time, right.
[50:15] Speaker 2: And actually that's come up in one of our groups
[50:18] Speaker 2: raised the plane and the response was, yeah, but it's
[50:21] Speaker 2: not it's not my money.
[50:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
[50:25] Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, you know versus everyone in Canberra uses
[50:27] Speaker 2: my money.
[50:28] Speaker 1: That's sort of fairly ruthless.
[50:30] Speaker 2: Yes.
[50:30] Speaker 1: Have we become more ruthless when it comes to voting.
[50:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, they have because their lives have become a lot
[50:34] Speaker 2: more difficult.
[50:34] Speaker 1: Right, Yes, so as our life becomes tougher, we become tougher.
[50:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and less I would say, less.
[50:41] Speaker 1: Compassionate, more scrutinizing.
[50:43] Speaker 2: Yes, more scrutinizing, less tolerance on bullshit to be blunt.
[50:47] Speaker 1: So the bullshit meters are pretty high these days. You know,
[50:52] Speaker 1: people's ability to so sometimes made. I think to myself,
[50:57] Speaker 1: and you know, I'm sure he's listening to this, but
[51:00] Speaker 1: I look at our treasure and I look at Albo
[51:05] Speaker 1: and like I can tell, they don't really believe they
[51:09] Speaker 1: know all the stuff that you know sort of thing.
[51:10] Speaker 1: You know, they get all this deep data and information
[51:13] Speaker 1: and analysis, but they know what they've got to speak
[51:16] Speaker 1: about to win the voats because they want to stay
[51:18] Speaker 1: in power, because they have an ideology that they can't
[51:22] Speaker 1: unroll out unless they're in power. So they know the game, okay,
[51:26] Speaker 1: And I look at them, I think to myself, how
[51:29] Speaker 1: can you get up and say those things when I
[51:31] Speaker 1: know you, deep down I expect you don't believe it.
[51:34] Speaker 1: Do people actually work that out?
[51:36] Speaker 2: Do you think? You know when you listen to whether
[51:39] Speaker 2: it's Jim or the Prime Minister, and could be the
[51:42] Speaker 2: opposition to the opposition to Angus Tyler's just exactly the
[51:44] Speaker 2: same delivery. The best bit of advice I'll give them
[51:48] Speaker 2: all is just be a bit more honest, you know,
[51:51] Speaker 2: Like I don't know if you watched Andrew Hasty's interview
[51:54] Speaker 2: on The Insiders a few weeks ago. The power in
[51:57] Speaker 2: the way he managed to interview was significant because he
[52:04] Speaker 2: didn't allow Speasy to basically get him on gotcha moments.
[52:09] Speaker 1: So he controlled the narrative. Well, it just was honest, right.
[52:12] Speaker 2: He said, well, I'm not going to be the last
[52:13] Speaker 2: line of defense for multinationals. Yeah, which is like liberal
[52:17] Speaker 2: saying that. That's just just like that's the honesty is missing.
[52:21] Speaker 2: You can still deliver your key lines, and you know,
[52:23] Speaker 2: the treasure of the country has to has to control
[52:26] Speaker 2: that narrative because it isn't just he's not projecting that
[52:30] Speaker 2: message to just punters' projecting it to rating agencies, Yeah,
[52:34] Speaker 2: grating agencies, the economists, media, He's got multiple different audiences
[52:39] Speaker 2: got to worry about and and yeah, probably just say
[52:44] Speaker 2: that like I've got to I'm answering this because you know,
[52:48] Speaker 2: we the government have to actually deal with with radio agencies, this,
[52:52] Speaker 2: this and this, and this isn't just a punter. Ye,
[52:55] Speaker 2: honesty is what people staff for. The fifteen second grab
[52:58] Speaker 2: is definitely on on the outer and dying. So my
[53:03] Speaker 2: my advice to politicians is get rid of it, do
[53:05] Speaker 2: more podcasts, more podcast get at and Trump worked it out.
[53:08] Speaker 2: I mean, get out of and talk to people. Correct.
[53:10] Speaker 1: But I think our policies is gett a bit nervous
[53:12] Speaker 1: about that because they they feel like they can't control
[53:14] Speaker 1: the no nodding heads behind them.
[53:16] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you could throw the politician a difficult question
[53:18] Speaker 2: and they don't know how to answer it.
[53:20] Speaker 1: But I should say I don't know how to answer it.
[53:22] Speaker 1: I don't have an answer that you know.
[53:24] Speaker 2: And also, you know, even if you stumble in the
[53:25] Speaker 2: media say well look some one so in pcd X
[53:28] Speaker 2: somewhat it will blow open twenty four hours. No one cares.
[53:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, the media cycle is so fast, there's probably like
[53:34] Speaker 1: there's probably less than twenty four hours because I get
[53:36] Speaker 1: hit up ten minutes later something else.
[53:37] Speaker 2: Anyway, Trump will do something to just distract everything.
[53:39] Speaker 1: Anyway, Like you said, you know, no one's really watching
[53:43] Speaker 1: the news. There's not many people having appointment with the
[53:45] Speaker 1: news at six pm at night.
[53:47] Speaker 2: At any age. I think for six o'clock news now
[53:49] Speaker 2: is well into the sixties.
[53:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, probably seventies, and they've already probably made their mind
[53:53] Speaker 1: up to a large extent, you know, but let me,
[53:56] Speaker 1: I mean, there don't point me watching the sixp news
[53:58] Speaker 1: because I've sent twenty times already on my various mediums
[54:00] Speaker 1: that I look at I'm looking to like all day
[54:02] Speaker 1: or one and or someone might tell me did you that?
[54:06] Speaker 2: Did you hear that?
[54:07] Speaker 1: Like God's gonna ask you. Just finally, we've got the
[54:12] Speaker 1: Pharaoh election coming up.
[54:15] Speaker 2: What's you feel race between two one nation and the independent? Wow?
[54:19] Speaker 2: I think the Liberals will run a deep third. Well, yeah,
[54:23] Speaker 2: that's why I think will happen. Pharaoh is a much
[54:26] Speaker 2: better electric for one nation than Nepim was because the
[54:30] Speaker 2: candidate or well again, right, let's just quickly touch on
[54:33] Speaker 2: the candidate and all the noise of the media making
[54:35] Speaker 2: about that candidate. Their voters don't care about that, right,
[54:38] Speaker 2: I don't care whether he wanted to join the Labor Party,
[54:40] Speaker 2: whether he wanted to you know, join the Greens or someone. No,
[54:44] Speaker 2: he's standing for one nation now and that's all they
[54:46] Speaker 2: care about. And so that's fundamentally I think what's driving that.
[54:52] Speaker 2: So we have to wait and see it is. We
[54:54] Speaker 2: are in a traditional, traditional period in our democracy, so
[54:59] Speaker 2: we I'm I'm always reluctant to give you a precise prediction,
[55:02] Speaker 2: but I would say it's between those two.
[55:04] Speaker 1: Right, I've always got one more final question. And by
[55:08] Speaker 1: the way, this has been extremely for me, extraordinarily and
[55:12] Speaker 1: lightning to actually have someone let you do a long
[55:15] Speaker 1: form show on this. I mean, I hear you on
[55:17] Speaker 1: the various channels all the time, but you're there for
[55:19] Speaker 1: fifteen seconds or three seconds, and this has been very
[55:23] Speaker 1: inside for me. But which moment do you feel is
[55:27] Speaker 1: one of the greatest in political history, one of the
[55:29] Speaker 1: greatest moments that you're really proud of, that you look
[55:32] Speaker 1: up to and say, that was a great moment.
[55:34] Speaker 2: John Howard's gun buy back, that was in different I mean,
[55:38] Speaker 2: you look at what's going on in the US now
[55:40] Speaker 2: as a result of port Arthur port Arthur right, and
[55:43] Speaker 2: that was a Conservative Prime Minister Tim Fisher who was
[55:46] Speaker 2: the National Party leader. Would a National Party leader do
[55:49] Speaker 2: that today?
[55:49] Speaker 1: No?
[55:50] Speaker 2: No, right, profound impact on the safety and well being
[55:54] Speaker 2: of this country. Now we've had gun violence since and
[55:56] Speaker 2: the tragedy of Bundo is a really good example of that.
[55:59] Speaker 2: But imagine how worse, much worse it would have been,
[56:02] Speaker 2: you know, with a fragmented society, people angry all the time,
[56:05] Speaker 2: wanted to hurt people all the time. We're seeing that
[56:07] Speaker 2: manifest in so many ways across the world. I think
[56:11] Speaker 2: that's always I'm always proud when I read American's response
[56:17] Speaker 2: to our laws.
[56:18] Speaker 1: Well, I would share one with you, and I think,
[56:21] Speaker 1: and I'm not necessarily of his political color, but poor
[56:25] Speaker 1: Kidding's compulsory supernuation.
[56:28] Speaker 2: Yes, that's profound.
[56:29] Speaker 1: Has probably been one of the greatest contributions to Australia,
[56:33] Speaker 1: the well being of Australia in an economic sense, that
[56:37] Speaker 1: we've ever experienced, and by the way, on a world
[56:39] Speaker 1: stage even I think even Trump said something about it
[56:42] Speaker 1: of the last week or so, that the Australians retire
[56:46] Speaker 1: and retirement situation is like better than any other country
[56:50] Speaker 1: in the world.
[56:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's that again. We're going back to
[56:53] Speaker 2: two governments at war about reform, weren't they and courageous
[56:56] Speaker 2: and courageous right, so they took positions like medicare right
[56:59] Speaker 2: with hawk? Ye again, profound.
[57:02] Speaker 1: Do you think we're ever going to see that again?
[57:04] Speaker 1: Courage proper political courage for reform.
[57:07] Speaker 2: I think we will. Yeah, I think we will. The
[57:10] Speaker 2: market will demand it, right at the end of the day,
[57:13] Speaker 2: the market will demand it. Well. I hope you're right.
[57:15] Speaker 1: Cose Morris found a Redbridge.
[57:18] Speaker 2: Mate.
[57:19] Speaker 1: You do a fantastic job. You're one of our best
[57:21] Speaker 1: political analysts and one of our best, you know, in
[57:25] Speaker 1: terms of who's voting for who and where it's going.
[57:27] Speaker 1: You're one of our best. I just wish people would
[57:29] Speaker 1: listen more to you, and here's an opportunity for them today.
[57:31] Speaker 2: Taste mate, Thank you

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