# Cooper Cronk on Craig Bellamy, NRL State Of Origin & the mindset to be great

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 18 May 2026, 1 h 22 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/247f6870-b52e-4985-a8cd-b44e0071027c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Cooper Cronk is one of rugby league's most cerebral players and a four-time premiership winner who transformed from a modest rugby union schoolboy into one of the game's greatest halfbacks. In this conversation, Cronk reveals the mental frameworks that drove his success, from Craig Bellamy's obsession with fundamentals at Melbourne Storm to his legendary 2018 grand final performance with a broken scapula. He discusses the coffee test that Bellamy uses for recruitment, how the spine positions require high football IQ, and why great players have time others don't. Cronk also opens up about his worst career moment in the 2016 grand final and how it taught him the lesson that secured his next three premierships. • Craig Bellamy's leadership philosophy and the coffee test for recruitment • Playing the 2018 grand final with a broken shoulder blade • The 2016 grand final disaster that changed his entire approach • Why Melbourne Storm's spine trio dominated for over a decade • Cameron Smith's unparalleled football intelligence • The fundamentals that separate elite performers from the rest • His transition into financial services and property investment Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://mentored.com.au/newsletter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Cooper Crime. Welcome, straight talk maker.
[0:01] Speaker 2: Mister Boris. Thank you for having me.
[0:05] Speaker 1: That's not a good start, mate, So we can play
[0:08] Speaker 1: the Prentice if you want to. It's really good to
[0:10] Speaker 1: see mate.
[0:10] Speaker 3: No, thanks for having mate.
[0:11] Speaker 2: Well done on everything created too, so hopefully the audience
[0:14] Speaker 2: gets something out of it.
[0:15] Speaker 1: Thanks mate. So well you just come back from Magic.
[0:18] Speaker 1: How was it major ground?
[0:19] Speaker 3: It is.
[0:20] Speaker 2: You've got to give credit to the game like it
[0:22] Speaker 2: is the epicenter of rugby league for a few days,
[0:26] Speaker 2: you know, whether you support, you know, the Tigers or
[0:28] Speaker 2: the Brison Broncos. You actually get to go to one place,
[0:31] Speaker 2: one town and support your team. So Suncorp is rocking
[0:36] Speaker 2: for three days. The weather didn't play its part, but
[0:40] Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I think. Every fan had a
[0:42] Speaker 2: good time. And sometimes players really put their name up
[0:45] Speaker 2: in lights in the big in the big stage. So
[0:46] Speaker 2: it's become a pretty big, big event on the calendar.
[0:49] Speaker 1: Actually, if I could just go back a big So
[0:52] Speaker 1: you're obviously Queenslander. You play for Queensland, but that's not
[0:56] Speaker 1: really where you started. Let's go right back. Were young
[1:02] Speaker 1: to the back back in the day, Yeah, back in
[1:04] Speaker 1: the day.
[1:04] Speaker 3: I am a Queenslander. Thrown through.
[1:06] Speaker 2: I was born in Queensland, the Kronk side of my family.
[1:10] Speaker 3: I've been yeah. Yeah.
[1:12] Speaker 2: Dad's family grew up in Evans Street, Bronting.
[1:15] Speaker 1: So that just be clear, that's Rooster's territory.
[1:18] Speaker 2: That is dead set Rooster's territory. So Dad played lowl
[1:21] Speaker 2: grades at BONDOI united my uncle. He was sort of
[1:25] Speaker 2: a bondo board rider's big wave surfer. My grandparents were
[1:31] Speaker 2: definitely in the community. But long story short. My mum
[1:35] Speaker 2: was in Queensland, moved to Sydney for work, met Dad,
[1:39] Speaker 2: moved back to Queensland and I was born. So I
[1:41] Speaker 2: was a couple of moments away from either being a
[1:44] Speaker 2: New South Wales person or a Queensland or And it's
[1:47] Speaker 2: the sliding doorsement.
[1:48] Speaker 3: It worked out pretty well.
[1:49] Speaker 1: So if you go back, you got brothers and sisters,
[1:52] Speaker 1: one sister, younger, older, younger. Okay, so you guys moved
[1:55] Speaker 1: We're best to queens of So grew up in the.
[1:57] Speaker 2: South side of Brisbane, sort of twee minutes south of
[2:01] Speaker 2: the city in Runcorn's Sunny Bank midl Cravat area. Mum
[2:06] Speaker 2: and Dad, all the Cronk side of the family were
[2:08] Speaker 2: still in Sydney and they eventually moved over the next
[2:11] Speaker 2: sort of ten years to Queensland. Mum's family were there
[2:15] Speaker 2: and my mum and my sister still live in Brisbane.
[2:18] Speaker 2: But I went to school at St Lawrence's College at
[2:20] Speaker 2: Rugby School, so I actually played rugby from grade five
[2:23] Speaker 2: to twelve and only played league one year when I
[2:26] Speaker 2: was eleven and managed to play a little bit of
[2:29] Speaker 2: schoolboy football got picked up from the Melbourne Storm I still.
[2:35] Speaker 1: Remember as a rugby union player.
[2:36] Speaker 2: Yes, I was playing rugby union in grade twelve. In
[2:39] Speaker 2: two thousand when I graduated, played some junior rep stuff
[2:43] Speaker 2: there and Melbourne Storm at the time. It was Mark
[2:46] Speaker 2: Murray and Anthony Griffin were heading up the Brisbane North
[2:49] Speaker 2: which was the feed as system for the Melbourne Storm
[2:52] Speaker 2: at the time. Came into my laundry with Mum and Dad.
[2:55] Speaker 2: I still remember it. It was five thousand dollars contract
[2:58] Speaker 2: and a three pair of boots and they had me
[2:59] Speaker 2: at that was just the dream that came across that.
[3:02] Speaker 2: I used to be the kid that sat a meter
[3:05] Speaker 2: or two meters from the television screen just looking at
[3:08] Speaker 2: rugby league, rugby union, professional sport, just generally and thinking
[3:12] Speaker 2: I don't know what that is, but I want to
[3:15] Speaker 2: do it, and when the opportunity came, it was sort
[3:17] Speaker 2: of never looked back. So I spent a couple more
[3:21] Speaker 2: years in Brisbane before moving down to Melbourne full time
[3:24] Speaker 2: in two thousand and four. Spent fourteen years in Melbourne
[3:27] Speaker 2: and then two years at Sidney Roosters in eighteen and
[3:30] Speaker 2: nineteen and retired at end of nineteen.
[3:32] Speaker 1: So you see, you went from a boy in malt
[3:36] Speaker 1: Gravat who played mostly rugby union but watch all the
[3:40] Speaker 1: footy and just ended up traveling down to Melbourne to
[3:45] Speaker 1: you know, there'd being the younger guys. I mean, i'd
[3:48] Speaker 1: imagine that I don't even know what the process is
[3:49] Speaker 1: down in Melbourne. I mean I don't even know if
[3:51] Speaker 1: they have a second grade or third grader or June.
[3:52] Speaker 2: I was all based out of Brisbane, so that was
[3:54] Speaker 2: the attractive part that I could stay in Brisbane home
[3:58] Speaker 2: with mum and dad for basically until I.
[4:00] Speaker 1: Was good enough really to play first grade.
[4:02] Speaker 2: To play first grade, so that the attractive piece to
[4:06] Speaker 2: sign with League and Union was five thousand dollars free
[4:10] Speaker 2: pair of boots. But in that contract there was called
[4:13] Speaker 2: it a week of training down in Melbourne full time
[4:16] Speaker 2: with the NROL.
[4:17] Speaker 1: Squad right just one week.
[4:18] Speaker 2: Yes, so there seemed to be a little bit of
[4:20] Speaker 2: a pathway to something that was possible. But I wasn't
[4:23] Speaker 2: destined to play the game at the highest level. I
[4:26] Speaker 2: was more hopeful than anything. I went to a really
[4:29] Speaker 2: good school at St Lawrence's College in Brisbane that gave.
[4:32] Speaker 3: Me access to all the sports.
[4:34] Speaker 2: Like I did everything from you know term one that
[4:36] Speaker 2: was swimming, Term two it was rugby all the way, athletics,
[4:40] Speaker 2: cross country. A little bit vertically challenged to do basketball,
[4:44] Speaker 2: but I gave it a go. Anything to do with sport, competing,
[4:48] Speaker 2: winning and losing was where I was comfortable and the
[4:52] Speaker 2: school gave me a really good grounding. So managed to
[4:54] Speaker 2: play some rep football for rugby union in I played
[4:59] Speaker 2: Australian schoolboys in two thousand in rugby union. I literally
[5:03] Speaker 2: played about three and a half seconds off the bench.
[5:06] Speaker 2: In that side was some pretty big names that ended
[5:08] Speaker 2: up going on to the wall of his Morgan Touinui
[5:12] Speaker 2: was the captain, Mark Gerard was in that side. I
[5:15] Speaker 2: think Matt Gino was in and around it, and there
[5:18] Speaker 2: was a player on.
[5:19] Speaker 3: The other sides.
[5:20] Speaker 2: The new Zealand school boys called Joe Rocococo, who ended
[5:23] Speaker 2: up being a very very good player. I think he
[5:24] Speaker 2: scored a four hundred tries and dominators. But that was
[5:27] Speaker 2: my sort of you know, schooling football experience. And then
[5:31] Speaker 2: off the back of that rugby league became something that
[5:34] Speaker 2: I was chasing.
[5:35] Speaker 1: But the gap for me, though, Kuper is that league
[5:38] Speaker 1: that sounds very modest relative to who Cooper Kronk became.
[5:43] Speaker 1: I mean Cooper Kronk, you know you became this great footballer.
[5:46] Speaker 1: You know at every level you weren't like the prodigy.
[5:52] Speaker 3: Yeah. No, Well look at your background.
[5:54] Speaker 2: Like I think, as as long as you're got a
[5:57] Speaker 2: good work ethic, you learn by a most is you're
[6:00] Speaker 2: willing to listen to people. You come from modest backgrounds,
[6:04] Speaker 2: but then you get given an opportunity. It's how far
[6:07] Speaker 2: you run with that opportunity, right, surrounding yourself with better
[6:10] Speaker 2: people than yourself, you know, having good mentors. I think
[6:15] Speaker 2: I can say this without disrespecting anyone, that if I
[6:18] Speaker 2: didn't land at the Melbourne Storm, the Sydney Rouses in
[6:20] Speaker 2: my career, right, good people, good systems, just the best
[6:26] Speaker 2: in class. I don't think I go on to have
[6:28] Speaker 2: the career I had, Like Craig Bellamy, is the biggest
[6:31] Speaker 2: influence on my football life, and if I had have
[6:34] Speaker 2: arrived at a team towards the bottom of the ladder
[6:36] Speaker 2: when I was nineteen. I think you learn from bad habits,
[6:40] Speaker 2: You become influenced by sort of bad habits. And the
[6:43] Speaker 2: fact that I went to the world a line that
[6:46] Speaker 2: Craig Bellamy, Billy Slater, Camera Smith two future immortals are
[6:50] Speaker 2: right at the same time as me. You start learning
[6:53] Speaker 2: at a higher rate, you start behaving in the way
[6:58] Speaker 2: that elite people behave and up to you to follow
[7:01] Speaker 2: that and continue with that path. So he taught me
[7:04] Speaker 2: a lot about like work ethic, a lot about like
[7:09] Speaker 2: doing the simple things over and over and over is
[7:12] Speaker 2: actually a formula for high performance. So his bread and
[7:16] Speaker 2: butter was about the fundamentals of rugby league and if
[7:19] Speaker 2: you do them better than everyone else, you're already ten
[7:22] Speaker 2: meters ahead on the start line. So whether it's business
[7:25] Speaker 2: or sport, whether you're a primary school teacher or in
[7:28] Speaker 2: financial markets or a rugby league player, there's simple fundamentals
[7:34] Speaker 2: that you must do in your chosen field, and if
[7:36] Speaker 2: you do that better than your competitors or your peers.
[7:39] Speaker 2: It's going to elevate you naturally. And we haven't even
[7:41] Speaker 2: spoken about having you know, X factor or some cool
[7:45] Speaker 2: little things or a secret source that someone doesn't have.
[7:48] Speaker 2: We just thinking about basic fundamentals. You do that better
[7:50] Speaker 2: than anyone else. It will almost elevate you above the
[7:53] Speaker 2: majority of your competitors and peers naturally. And he taught
[7:56] Speaker 2: me that, and then it was up to me whether
[7:58] Speaker 2: I use the resource that are available to me to
[8:02] Speaker 2: then start adding some other things on top of the foundation.
[8:05] Speaker 1: So I've always been intrigued to how Bellamy managed to
[8:08] Speaker 1: get players not necessarily the best in class, but turns
[8:12] Speaker 1: it into best in class. And he's been doing it
[8:15] Speaker 1: for a long long time. And of course, you know, Craig,
[8:16] Speaker 1: if you're listening, we're sorry to hear about your current condition.
[8:20] Speaker 3: But I.
[8:22] Speaker 1: Wonder whether or not this very sounds like a simple formula.
[8:27] Speaker 1: I wonder whether or not there's actually something a bit
[8:29] Speaker 1: more magical about it though, I mean, is there something
[8:31] Speaker 1: magic about Bellamy himself in maybe in the way he
[8:35] Speaker 1: tells you about the formula. What is the magic about Bellamy?
[8:38] Speaker 1: There must be some magic there, or maybe there's not.
[8:40] Speaker 2: Okay, now that the magic is the simplicity, but the
[8:43] Speaker 2: magic is in the person. So Craig Belling, as you
[8:46] Speaker 2: see on the television screen, mark like he is. He's
[8:48] Speaker 2: a lunatic, like he blows up the luxe. You know,
[8:51] Speaker 2: he will fire off at different stages because he cares
[8:54] Speaker 2: and he competes. But then in the same moment he
[8:57] Speaker 2: can hit you in the eyes in terms of some
[8:59] Speaker 2: really feedback, but in the same moment, put your arm
[9:02] Speaker 2: around you'll tell you that he still loves you and
[9:04] Speaker 2: it's genuine and it's right. So yeah, he's got that
[9:08] Speaker 2: unparalleled ability to really force you to get better at something,
[9:14] Speaker 2: but then also have this sort of empathy that says,
[9:17] Speaker 2: I'm still the person that cares for you deeply. And
[9:20] Speaker 2: then when you talk about his ability to stay consistent,
[9:25] Speaker 2: one of his strengths is that he knows what he's
[9:28] Speaker 2: good at, and he also knows what he's not good at.
[9:31] Speaker 2: So he will continue to turn up every day with
[9:34] Speaker 2: laser focus, high detail repetition to the degree of the
[9:39] Speaker 2: areas that he's good at. But then on the flip side,
[9:42] Speaker 2: he'll get someone else in that might be able to
[9:44] Speaker 2: help him do the things he's not good at who's
[9:46] Speaker 2: best in class and that person is meant to do
[9:49] Speaker 2: that thing as good as he can do every day.
[9:51] Speaker 2: So in amongst all of that, I think there's a
[9:54] Speaker 2: performance piece and then there's a personality piece. In leadership,
[9:58] Speaker 2: performance is king the best coaches, the best players, the
[10:02] Speaker 2: best CEOs of managing directors, are founders of businesses, are
[10:05] Speaker 2: the best at what they do. And then the other
[10:07] Speaker 2: part is their personality. Can they inspire people? Can they
[10:11] Speaker 2: bring people together? Can they make people believe that they
[10:13] Speaker 2: are actually better than what they are? And if you
[10:16] Speaker 2: can do both of those things, you're a good leader.
[10:18] Speaker 2: And Craig Bellamy has them both in bucket loads.
[10:21] Speaker 1: Would you say Bellamy's superpower is his ability to be
[10:24] Speaker 1: a great leader in the way you just described it,
[10:27] Speaker 1: be able to straddle both those things.
[10:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, you can still be a great leader and be
[10:31] Speaker 2: more performance based and be more personality based. But ultimately
[10:35] Speaker 2: gold standard is having both of those two things, and
[10:39] Speaker 2: his performance has stacked up over twenty plus years. But
[10:44] Speaker 2: the greatest strength is his personality as well. In a
[10:48] Speaker 2: world where recruiting, identifying talent is almost an art in itself,
[10:54] Speaker 2: with algorithms and moneyball theories and all these things that
[10:57] Speaker 2: go and watch scout and players. I don't think too
[11:00] Speaker 2: many people get signed at the Melbourne Storm unless Craig
[11:03] Speaker 2: Bellamy does the coffee test, and that in simple the
[11:07] Speaker 2: coffee test is he needs to meet these people. There
[11:10] Speaker 2: might be a production line of some really good half backs,
[11:13] Speaker 2: front rows, fullbacks, whatever, but unless they pass the coffee
[11:18] Speaker 2: test with Craig, they probably don't get signed. And when
[11:21] Speaker 2: I say that, I'm just sort of summarizing this. They
[11:24] Speaker 2: might have a coffee with Craig Bellamy and he will
[11:27] Speaker 2: ask the questions around football and life and family and
[11:29] Speaker 2: things like that, but he's really probably looking.
[11:31] Speaker 3: At the values of the person.
[11:34] Speaker 2: Does the person say thank you for the coffee order,
[11:37] Speaker 2: does the person offer to pay for that coffee? And
[11:40] Speaker 2: when they're talking, does that person look you in the eye?
[11:43] Speaker 2: Are they engaged or are they floating around sort of
[11:45] Speaker 2: distracted a different stage. So there's a couple of characteristics
[11:49] Speaker 2: that underpin whether the performance part is a big part.
[11:53] Speaker 2: And maybe that's why he's been successful because he narrows
[11:56] Speaker 2: the gap between the best and the worst of a
[12:00] Speaker 2: person or a team over a long period of time.
[12:03] Speaker 1: Because that Melbourne side. You just mentioned it Smith yourself, Billy,
[12:09] Speaker 1: you know that just name three pretty powerful. Actually when
[12:12] Speaker 1: I think about it, when I don't know the other
[12:14] Speaker 1: guys well, but when I think about what you just said,
[12:17] Speaker 1: there is a common denominator there between the three of
[12:20] Speaker 1: you and probably between a number of other players that
[12:22] Speaker 1: come through the system as well. That common denominator is
[12:25] Speaker 1: sort of sensible, smart, probably hard working, not too flash.
[12:32] Speaker 1: But at the same time, always do get the basics right.
[12:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. I get the basics right
[12:38] Speaker 2: is a key part of high performance. We talk about
[12:42] Speaker 2: Cameron and Billy. I think one thing that really helps
[12:46] Speaker 2: us in the early stages is we had a lot
[12:49] Speaker 2: of guys around the same age that arrived in Melbourne.
[12:52] Speaker 2: And the advantage all the disadvantage, whichever way you want
[12:55] Speaker 2: to look at it, is you come from either Sydney
[12:59] Speaker 2: or New South Wales, Queensland, New Zealand or one of
[13:01] Speaker 2: the Pacific nations and you arrive in Melbourne. You don't
[13:05] Speaker 2: have family, you don't have friends as such. So it's
[13:07] Speaker 2: literally like if you're going to train, you train with
[13:09] Speaker 2: your team. If you're going to go for a coffee,
[13:11] Speaker 2: you go with the team. If you're going to go
[13:12] Speaker 2: for a movie or go for a bit, you're going
[13:14] Speaker 2: with your team, and that creates a lot of camaraderie.
[13:18] Speaker 2: And I think the other thing when it comes to
[13:20] Speaker 2: Billy and Cameron, the one thing that allowed us to
[13:25] Speaker 2: influence players around us is that we were three players
[13:29] Speaker 2: in three different positions on the field. Now, if you
[13:32] Speaker 2: want to influence people in your business or your sporting team,
[13:35] Speaker 2: it's about the best trying to pass down that.
[13:38] Speaker 3: Effect to the people.
[13:39] Speaker 2: And we sort of took it upon ourselves to influence
[13:42] Speaker 2: three or four people and around our.
[13:44] Speaker 1: Position each on the field, like consciously that yeah, yeah, yeah.
[13:47] Speaker 2: So I would work with the other halves of the
[13:49] Speaker 2: next generation, Billy would work with the outside backs the
[13:52] Speaker 2: next generation, and Cameron definitely had the forward pack in
[13:55] Speaker 2: the palm of his hand. And if you think about it,
[13:57] Speaker 2: you've got three guys in three different positions, and if
[13:59] Speaker 2: three guys are influencing four other people close to their position,
[14:04] Speaker 2: all of a sudden, now you're getting twelve fifteen people
[14:07] Speaker 2: influenced in the right behavior is the right mindset, the
[14:10] Speaker 2: right performance indicators, and that's a team. So Craig set
[14:14] Speaker 2: the foundation the next tier of leaders followed Craig's lead,
[14:17] Speaker 2: and then they went on and influenced the next tier.
[14:20] Speaker 2: So I think that's a little bit why you've seen
[14:23] Speaker 2: consistency from Melbourne over a period of time is they
[14:26] Speaker 2: get the right people in, but then you've got the
[14:28] Speaker 2: right people influencing those kids that are coming through the system.
[14:31] Speaker 1: And do you think that was a conscious decision by
[14:34] Speaker 1: Bella me like, did do you think that he said, Okay,
[14:37] Speaker 1: my strategy he's not going to find because they When
[14:40] Speaker 1: you guys were playing together in the early early days,
[14:44] Speaker 1: we never used to have too many conversations about the spine.
[14:47] Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of something over the last fifteen
[14:51] Speaker 1: sixteen years we started talking about. But you guys sort
[14:54] Speaker 1: of set the scene for what the spine looks like.
[14:57] Speaker 2: Look that that wasn't the style in terms of we
[15:01] Speaker 2: weren't the thirty year old versions when we arrived at
[15:03] Speaker 2: the club in nineteen We were loose. We were We
[15:06] Speaker 2: did some silly things that probably should in trouble.
[15:09] Speaker 1: For Yeah, but.
[15:13] Speaker 2: We spent like the first six years was hard work.
[15:16] Speaker 2: Like it was fun. Don't get me wrong, it was fun,
[15:18] Speaker 2: but it was hard working.
[15:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[15:20] Speaker 2: Like the book about the ten thousand hours, like you
[15:23] Speaker 2: spend ten thousand colladible, you spent ten thousand hours, you know,
[15:28] Speaker 2: with perfect dedication and training, purposeful ye, dedication, dedication, you
[15:34] Speaker 2: will be a master.
[15:34] Speaker 3: At your craft.
[15:35] Speaker 2: And I think the first six eight years call it
[15:38] Speaker 2: maybe that's the ten thousand hours of rugby league, like
[15:40] Speaker 2: we worked hard. But then the next six to eight
[15:43] Speaker 2: years were fun, enjoyable because that mastering came through and
[15:47] Speaker 2: the autopilot kicked in and all those repetitions of experience
[15:51] Speaker 2: allowed us to see things unfold and it was I
[15:54] Speaker 2: don't think it was strategic that the three of us
[15:57] Speaker 2: arrived at the same time.
[15:57] Speaker 3: It was more luck than anything.
[15:59] Speaker 2: But then and something was created through those early days
[16:03] Speaker 2: of Craig's leadership that some of my best mates are
[16:06] Speaker 2: still from that day, that Matt King at the Roosters,
[16:08] Speaker 2: you know, Dallas Johnson, Ryan Hoffman, those guys all arrived
[16:12] Speaker 2: at the same time as Billy Cameron and myself with
[16:15] Speaker 2: Craig and were still all very good friends. So there
[16:18] Speaker 2: was something that was created on these early days that
[16:21] Speaker 2: laid the foundation, and then Billy, Cameron and I sort
[16:25] Speaker 2: of got the fruits of that towards a back end
[16:27] Speaker 2: because we became a bit more influential and were able
[16:31] Speaker 2: to dictate it the way the game was played a
[16:33] Speaker 2: little bit purely because of that repetition to understanding, like
[16:37] Speaker 2: it was a bit telepathic to be fair, as soon
[16:39] Speaker 2: as Cameron, because I've seen it four million times before,
[16:42] Speaker 2: as soon as he lent left, I knew he was
[16:45] Speaker 2: coming back right, and that meant Billy knew that I
[16:47] Speaker 2: was going to go right back to left. And that's
[16:49] Speaker 2: how we created and that's how we played some of
[16:50] Speaker 2: the moments, particularly in the last moments of chaos. It
[16:54] Speaker 2: was actually quite slow and easy because we knew what
[16:57] Speaker 2: was about to happen.
[16:57] Speaker 1: For it happened, there's just fooon inducing. You mentioned the
[17:00] Speaker 1: book by Malcolm glad book. I think it's called Outlier,
[17:03] Speaker 1: and he does talk about a psychological theory about brilliant
[17:08] Speaker 1: performers and he calls it the ten thousand hour theory.
[17:12] Speaker 1: It's not actually his theory, but it's a theory that
[17:14] Speaker 1: was developed by a psychologists in Germany many minutears ago.
[17:17] Speaker 1: But was that something that, I mean, did Belling Me,
[17:20] Speaker 1: for example, give you that book or how did you
[17:21] Speaker 1: come across that book? How did you know about that,
[17:23] Speaker 1: You know, I read it, I read some books. Where'd
[17:26] Speaker 1: you find out about it? Oh?
[17:27] Speaker 2: Just through different people. You work with different high performance
[17:30] Speaker 2: coaches who work with different psychologists, You work with different
[17:33] Speaker 2: nutritionness over time, and you believe it, whether you're in
[17:37] Speaker 2: sport or another business. You believe in your DNA that
[17:41] Speaker 2: what you understood over a period of time is right.
[17:43] Speaker 2: But if you ever think you're one hundred percent right
[17:45] Speaker 2: all the time, you're wrong because you need to learn
[17:48] Speaker 2: from other people. You almost seen. Sport can learn from business.
[17:52] Speaker 2: Business can learn from sport. There's an intersection for both
[17:55] Speaker 2: industries that definitely crosses over, and you would know that
[17:58] Speaker 2: better than most. There's no doubt that having access to psychologists,
[18:05] Speaker 2: high performance people at different stages, you just picked different things.
[18:09] Speaker 2: Like you know Trent does trips over to US sport,
[18:12] Speaker 2: he'd go to white collar corporate here in New South
[18:16] Speaker 2: Wales and will learn from different people that is applied
[18:19] Speaker 2: to a sporting team and vice versa. So yeah, I
[18:21] Speaker 2: think that book came across my desk and I just
[18:24] Speaker 2: remember reading it at about the ten thousand hours of
[18:26] Speaker 2: not just practice, it's perfect practice.
[18:29] Speaker 1: It's called purposeful practice, correct in other words, you're not.
[18:31] Speaker 1: If you're a violinist, you're not. Just like mama. I
[18:34] Speaker 1: did music at school. My mother used to say to me,
[18:35] Speaker 1: and I played, you're playing like Meriga arownd music. Be Aus,
[18:38] Speaker 1: I just go on because I did want to do
[18:39] Speaker 1: it right and I just but wasn't purposeful. Therefore it
[18:42] Speaker 1: don't become better. And actually, because you don't become better,
[18:44] Speaker 1: you don't enjoy it. And it was not enjoying it,
[18:46] Speaker 1: you don't you want to give it away. I mean,
[18:48] Speaker 1: my mother forced me to do it until the HC.
[18:49] Speaker 1: It didn't hate you see. But nonetheless I sort of
[18:53] Speaker 1: knew the really good kids who were much better than
[18:55] Speaker 1: me at playing music were actually purposely practiced that actually
[18:59] Speaker 1: enjoyed it, thinking about well that note has that sound
[19:02] Speaker 1: with that amount of pressure that whole because that's a
[19:05] Speaker 1: fairly I mean, I didn't know about it, but I
[19:07] Speaker 1: knew about it. Retrospect that thought process. In rugby league,
[19:14] Speaker 1: I think people underestumated Raby league, the intensity of rugby
[19:17] Speaker 1: league in terms of at an intellectual level. Yeah, because
[19:21] Speaker 1: I don't think many people would have heard about this stuff,
[19:24] Speaker 1: but today, in your time today they do. But in
[19:28] Speaker 1: your time. Is that just because you had access to
[19:30] Speaker 1: and this again Bellamy getting the best people come to psychologists, nutritionist,
[19:34] Speaker 1: all those sorts of people. Is that you guys getting
[19:36] Speaker 1: him the best? Is that an example where Bellamy got
[19:38] Speaker 1: the best in all the categories?
[19:40] Speaker 2: No, even my time at the Roosters, Trent would bring
[19:43] Speaker 2: in outsource people to give examples of things, and then
[19:47] Speaker 2: it was up to you to, Oh, that person might
[19:49] Speaker 2: have done this. Maybe I could ask him about this
[19:51] Speaker 2: mental performance or this skill set that might be applied
[19:55] Speaker 2: to what I do on the football field, because there's
[19:59] Speaker 2: crossover no one. And I think the key part to
[20:04] Speaker 2: you know, the sport and business intersection is that there
[20:08] Speaker 2: are fundamentals that you have to do each day to
[20:11] Speaker 2: get better, but it comes down to the individual executing
[20:15] Speaker 2: those things every day. Like you spoke about the perfect practice,
[20:19] Speaker 2: I always when I try and help young halves or
[20:22] Speaker 2: anything anyone in the game. I think, for example, kicking
[20:25] Speaker 2: every kick at training is important. It needs to be
[20:28] Speaker 2: your best kick because in the seventy eighth minute, when
[20:31] Speaker 2: you need to nail the centimeter perfect kick, you will
[20:33] Speaker 2: fall back into your habits. So if you haven't trained
[20:37] Speaker 2: at almost one hundred percent execution every time, then the
[20:40] Speaker 2: chances of you nailing in the time that you need
[20:42] Speaker 2: it is going to be you know, the GAP's.
[20:44] Speaker 3: Going to be big.
[20:45] Speaker 1: So especially with fatigue one.
[20:46] Speaker 2: Hundred yes, yes, and you need to Every kick is important,
[20:49] Speaker 2: every reaction is important. And if you do that on Monday,
[20:52] Speaker 2: you do it on Tuesday, do it again on Thursday,
[20:55] Speaker 2: do it again on Friday. You'll be closer to doing
[20:57] Speaker 2: it again on the weekend on game day.
[20:59] Speaker 1: So what you learned from Camera Smith.
[21:02] Speaker 2: I learned that, you know, poison footy intelligence. While we
[21:08] Speaker 2: play a brutal sport, it is a contact sport. You
[21:11] Speaker 2: physically need to be ready on every occasion. You know,
[21:14] Speaker 2: when they say the great players have time, that is true.
[21:18] Speaker 2: They see things before it actually happens. I always thought
[21:22] Speaker 2: that information was king, and Cameron was the same. Give
[21:26] Speaker 2: us all the information and put in the back of
[21:30] Speaker 2: your mind, and then when you come out to play,
[21:32] Speaker 2: you'll see cues that people were doing or about to
[21:35] Speaker 2: do that said now I can pull the trigger on
[21:37] Speaker 2: this play. So the thing I learned about from Cameron
[21:40] Speaker 2: is that he had every nuance of the opposition basically
[21:44] Speaker 2: in his brain before kickoff. Started, and then as soon
[21:48] Speaker 2: as he saw the queue from that player on the field,
[21:50] Speaker 2: he knew that he could pull the trigger on another play,
[21:53] Speaker 2: or if he saw the game unfolding at a stage
[21:55] Speaker 2: that they were fatiguing, he knew that he could start
[21:59] Speaker 2: hitting the accelerator now. And he Wasn't. With respect, the
[22:02] Speaker 2: most physically gifted play Wasn't, didn't have the biggest presence,
[22:07] Speaker 2: but he was the smartest player to play the game.
[22:09] Speaker 2: And that's probably one thing I learnt from him.
[22:11] Speaker 1: And the three of you weren't sort of none of
[22:14] Speaker 1: you sort of physically physical titans.
[22:16] Speaker 2: Excuse me, you can still take me down today, Mark.
[22:21] Speaker 1: Now, But I mean no, I mean, but like we'll
[22:23] Speaker 1: compare to some of the players today, particularly playing the halves,
[22:25] Speaker 1: et cetera. We've got huge, some huge players playing the halves.
[22:29] Speaker 1: But the three of you were devastatingly good in terms
[22:32] Speaker 1: of particularly during the whole melbournetone period. Do you put
[22:37] Speaker 1: that down to intelligence? Footy intelligence? I mean, can footy
[22:42] Speaker 1: intelligence beat physical power strength? Raw physical power strength?
[22:49] Speaker 2: I think in a team environment you need a good
[22:53] Speaker 2: mix of everything, Like even in your business, for you
[22:56] Speaker 2: to operate like a team, you need some risk verst
[22:59] Speaker 2: rule guys. You need some consistent guys, you need some
[23:02] Speaker 2: physical present guys, and you need some IQ guys. Essentially,
[23:07] Speaker 2: it's the whole team that decides.
[23:09] Speaker 1: Where do you put those Meaning the spine, how would
[23:12] Speaker 1: you say, I mean, you've been around pretty long time
[23:14] Speaker 1: and commentating on it. But the spine does that need
[23:17] Speaker 1: to be high IQ? Yeah?
[23:19] Speaker 2: It does high IQ, high EQ. But then if you
[23:22] Speaker 2: were to break up the spine into four players, you
[23:24] Speaker 2: probably need two really smart players. You need two guys
[23:30] Speaker 2: that are super athletic and you can compliment each other
[23:34] Speaker 2: in those roles. But the game is at a pace
[23:37] Speaker 2: now that you need speed and athleticism and footwork to
[23:41] Speaker 2: take advantage of things. But then you also need smarts
[23:44] Speaker 2: to know when to create and when not to create.
[23:47] Speaker 2: So the ball in play, the scoreline, blowouts that are
[23:51] Speaker 2: in the game today, I think come back to the
[23:54] Speaker 2: physical readiness and the athleticism of a player or a team,
[23:58] Speaker 2: but then also the smarts of when you have the
[24:02] Speaker 2: ball and you have that big chunk of possession, you
[24:05] Speaker 2: need to take advantage of it and you need to
[24:07] Speaker 2: rack up the school board and when you're on the
[24:08] Speaker 2: back foot and when you don't have things go on
[24:11] Speaker 2: your way. You need to limit the damage of the
[24:13] Speaker 2: schoolboard on the other side. So I think that's at
[24:15] Speaker 2: the moment where they're forty to thirty and thirty to
[24:18] Speaker 2: twenty four. At the moment there's teams are just getting
[24:22] Speaker 2: possession and running with it, but then they're not able
[24:24] Speaker 2: to stop or be disciplined. And that's probably why Penrith
[24:27] Speaker 2: are where they are because they have the fundamentals of
[24:31] Speaker 2: a top ten stock exchange company. Just good team, good players,
[24:38] Speaker 2: good coach, good defense and you're just going to get
[24:41] Speaker 2: your dividend and you return.
[24:42] Speaker 3: At the end of the day because they just do
[24:44] Speaker 3: it better than most.
[24:46] Speaker 1: I remember in our back to back, back to the
[24:49] Speaker 1: Roosters back to back Grand Final win one of the
[24:52] Speaker 1: and I remember then if I got back to two
[24:53] Speaker 1: thousand and two when we won the Grand Final earlier
[24:57] Speaker 1: on one of the things that I notice is on
[25:00] Speaker 1: the field is you talk about poise, it's like having
[25:04] Speaker 1: an on field coach, and we had Freddie back then,
[25:07] Speaker 1: we had a number And in your Grand Final when
[25:09] Speaker 1: you played, but you were playing with a busted shoulder
[25:13] Speaker 1: actually broken shoulder, and you weren't playing you were sort
[25:16] Speaker 1: of hanging around the back. I mean, I know they
[25:18] Speaker 1: went after a few times, but you didn't touch the
[25:19] Speaker 1: ball too many times. You were like being a coach
[25:22] Speaker 1: on the field, And that's obviously a big call by
[25:24] Speaker 1: you and Robber. I mean, obviously this was sort of
[25:28] Speaker 1: conspired about before we went up. Can you take us
[25:31] Speaker 1: through the conversation, so and just take us through the
[25:34] Speaker 1: period where you knew I'm stuffed here, my shoulder blade
[25:38] Speaker 1: is broken, whatever it was scapula. Take us through the
[25:42] Speaker 1: conversation that you might have had with Robbo. And I'm
[25:44] Speaker 1: sure Robber doesn't mind now in hindsight, But what was
[25:46] Speaker 1: the conversation, What was the strategy? That's an important bit.
[25:50] Speaker 3: Mark.
[25:50] Speaker 2: It's funny I don't often talk about it because it
[25:55] Speaker 2: was the scariest moment of my football life. Like I
[25:59] Speaker 2: wasn't scared. I wasn't nervous when I played, like it
[26:01] Speaker 2: was more excitement. But that's I was terrified that game.
[26:05] Speaker 2: A couple of reasons. Yes, break the scapular week before, but.
[26:10] Speaker 1: It actually was a break. It was a proper break.
[26:12] Speaker 2: So the scapular breaks straight through, but there's two muscles
[26:15] Speaker 2: that hold the scapular in place and a quick summary
[26:19] Speaker 2: of the week. Basically, it came through that there was
[26:21] Speaker 2: no chance to play, but we decided to keep it
[26:25] Speaker 2: in house, keep it tight. Only about thirty or forty
[26:28] Speaker 2: people truly knew about the injury, and if it was
[26:32] Speaker 2: to stay in house, then we might have been a
[26:34] Speaker 2: chance to pretend that I was playing and then just
[26:38] Speaker 2: be late withdrawal late, which was probably the plan. But
[26:42] Speaker 2: long story short, I had a number of injections, painkilling
[26:46] Speaker 2: injections to see if I could somehow manage the pain.
[26:50] Speaker 3: It didn't work.
[26:52] Speaker 2: Thursday, so the game's on Sunday. Thursday, we had a
[26:55] Speaker 2: training session and I had tried everything, every tie of medicine,
[27:00] Speaker 2: every type of recovery. I did it, and I did
[27:03] Speaker 2: it for twenty three and a half hours a day,
[27:06] Speaker 2: and it just didn't work.
[27:08] Speaker 3: You know.
[27:08] Speaker 2: I had pain medicine injected down my arm pit to
[27:11] Speaker 2: try and feed down the crack.
[27:13] Speaker 3: It didn't work.
[27:14] Speaker 2: So Thursday it was decided that I went to Trent.
[27:19] Speaker 2: I said, listen, I don't think I'm any good here.
[27:23] Speaker 2: Maybe I could play off the bench and if you
[27:26] Speaker 2: can get to a lead, maybe I can come on
[27:28] Speaker 2: the field and manage the victory of the last ten
[27:31] Speaker 2: or fifteen minutes, so basically said wasn't able to play
[27:37] Speaker 2: under I remember being on the physio desk it was
[27:40] Speaker 2: Thursday afternoon, just to come to terms with emotionally not
[27:44] Speaker 2: being able to.
[27:45] Speaker 1: Play, especially given who you're going to play.
[27:47] Speaker 2: Of course, that was another barrier of fear or intensity
[27:52] Speaker 2: around it. And then, as happens in Grand Final week,
[27:56] Speaker 2: when you've got an injury, everyone even so one from
[28:00] Speaker 2: the Moon would send an email saying that I've got
[28:02] Speaker 2: the secret sauce that will or the recipe that'll fix you.
[28:06] Speaker 2: There was a radiographer, a sports medicine guy based out
[28:11] Speaker 2: of Castle Hill that had said, oh, I think I
[28:13] Speaker 2: have a different way of getting this injection to work,
[28:16] Speaker 2: and the physio at the Roosters was like, let's go
[28:19] Speaker 2: out and see him. I said, no, I'm done, Stephen.
[28:24] Speaker 3: I'm done. I'm beaten up. I can't do this anymore.
[28:27] Speaker 3: Let's just move on.
[28:28] Speaker 2: He goes, no, let's just give this guy a chance.
[28:30] Speaker 2: So we get in the car about driving out the
[28:32] Speaker 2: Castle Hill and I haven't been able to lift my arm.
[28:36] Speaker 3: For a week.
[28:36] Speaker 2: Right, That's that's that's the cold hard facts of it.
[28:39] Speaker 2: We get out here and the specialist says, I think
[28:43] Speaker 2: I got an idea. So it gets an ultrasound machine
[28:46] Speaker 2: and it goes on. The machine actually finds the crack
[28:48] Speaker 2: at where it is through my scapular and decides to
[28:51] Speaker 2: put pain medicine in between the crack there. They're in
[28:56] Speaker 2: three different spots, and he put ten mills in, which
[28:59] Speaker 2: is a all about and waited fifteen minutes, and all
[29:05] Speaker 2: of a sudden, I can lift my arm up and
[29:07] Speaker 2: I'm starting to think that this is not real. I'm
[29:10] Speaker 2: starting to lift my own forward. I'm starting to actually
[29:13] Speaker 2: rotate my arm like I'm passing a ball and I
[29:15] Speaker 2: could actually do it, and stephan't the physio and I
[29:18] Speaker 2: look at each other, going, I don't actually know what's happening.
[29:21] Speaker 2: Next minute, I'm grabbing the phisio with respect to Steph.
[29:25] Speaker 2: He's sixty kilograms of winging ret ringing, wet, and I'm
[29:28] Speaker 2: actually moving to a point that I can hold on
[29:31] Speaker 2: and strong enough to control another person. And so in
[29:37] Speaker 2: a sports medicine clinic and castle who I'm starting to
[29:40] Speaker 2: tackle the phisio two days before an enter our Grand
[29:43] Speaker 2: final with a broken scabula, and the pain medicine's working.
[29:46] Speaker 2: So then it was like, okay, we're actually here at
[29:48] Speaker 2: the chance. It was a forty minute drive back to
[29:53] Speaker 2: moor Park, and by the time I got out of
[29:55] Speaker 2: the car and practiced to wrestle again with Steph, the
[29:58] Speaker 2: pain had gone and I couldn't it. So that said
[30:01] Speaker 2: that we needed some.
[30:02] Speaker 1: Pain to come back.
[30:03] Speaker 2: It came back and I couldn't physically grab him anymore.
[30:05] Speaker 2: So we rang Trent and said, listen, I think of
[30:07] Speaker 2: how Mary's landed on a doorstep. I might be able
[30:10] Speaker 2: to do this. But it was Friday, the games on Sunday,
[30:14] Speaker 2: we were training Saturday, and he was like, all right, well,
[30:18] Speaker 2: let's hold this all together. Let's see what we can do.
[30:20] Speaker 2: He got in on the Friday morning and thought, we
[30:24] Speaker 2: won't be able to test this out again. But I'm
[30:26] Speaker 2: at call it, thirty or forty percent capacity, and Trent's going, okay,
[30:30] Speaker 2: so what do you want to do? And I said,
[30:32] Speaker 2: I don't think I can make this decision on my own.
[30:34] Speaker 2: How about we get the senior players in a room.
[30:36] Speaker 2: Let's tell them exactly where I'm at, and let's see
[30:39] Speaker 2: what they say. And said, listen, I'm at thirty forty percent.
[30:43] Speaker 2: I think I can do it. The pain men might
[30:46] Speaker 2: work for the first half, but they're going to need
[30:48] Speaker 2: another injection at halftime. And to a man, they all
[30:51] Speaker 2: stood up and said they wanted me to play.
[30:53] Speaker 3: Right then.
[30:54] Speaker 2: I talked pretty tough all week and said I could
[30:57] Speaker 2: do it, but I knew they wanted me to play.
[30:59] Speaker 2: They said it said, all I really have to do
[31:02] Speaker 2: is be present, and I think they can deliver a performance.
[31:07] Speaker 2: Right So there was a bit of craziness in terms of,
[31:11] Speaker 2: you know, pain medication not tipping it two part where
[31:14] Speaker 2: the heart starts doing the crazy things. I don't know
[31:18] Speaker 2: if I've got my numbers right here, but I think
[31:20] Speaker 2: you can put forty meals or thirty five meals of
[31:23] Speaker 2: pain medication in your body before your heart starts going
[31:26] Speaker 2: a little bit out of beat. I had twenty meals
[31:30] Speaker 2: before kickoff, racing halftime, put another ten meals in and
[31:35] Speaker 2: it actually got through the time. I couldn't do some
[31:38] Speaker 2: of the things. The issue with my game was I
[31:40] Speaker 2: could handle everything that was in front of me, but
[31:42] Speaker 2: I couldn't run the ball and risk someone falling on
[31:44] Speaker 2: my back and causing severe damage.
[31:47] Speaker 1: I shouldn't recall it. One the very one tackle that
[31:50] Speaker 1: they really they hammered you. I come from with with
[31:53] Speaker 1: you though.
[31:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was trying to like whenever I got tackled,
[31:56] Speaker 2: whether kicking or passing, I had to roll on my
[31:59] Speaker 2: roight shoulder on my left and I just couldn't run
[32:01] Speaker 2: the risk of running the ball and someone falling on
[32:04] Speaker 2: my back. Otherwise it wouldn't have been able to work.
[32:07] Speaker 2: That's the terrifying, crazy, scary whole lead up work to it.
[32:12] Speaker 2: The beautiful science of it was Trent Robinson devised a
[32:18] Speaker 2: game plan where Mitchell Orbison was actually going to play
[32:20] Speaker 2: half back and he was going to play on a
[32:22] Speaker 2: short side. Let Tedesco and Kirie be the main man.
[32:25] Speaker 2: And if you go back and look at the way
[32:27] Speaker 2: that we played all year, I was first received and
[32:29] Speaker 2: we played from wide field positions. I was busted. I
[32:32] Speaker 2: wasn't able to do what I did. And I know
[32:36] Speaker 2: the Melbourne Storm prepared within an inch of their life,
[32:38] Speaker 2: they would have seen me the way that I played.
[32:39] Speaker 2: I said to Trent, keep this style of play. I
[32:42] Speaker 2: would be the decoy on the short side. Let hear
[32:45] Speaker 2: In Tesco do the majority of the work. And it
[32:49] Speaker 2: was probably the worst game of my career, but the
[32:52] Speaker 2: sixteen other Roosters.
[32:53] Speaker 3: Guys had the game of their lives.
[32:55] Speaker 1: How much of the inspiration do you think they gotten
[32:57] Speaker 1: into the lifting their game? Do you think they're going
[32:59] Speaker 1: in spied and felt motivated and lifted a curiat a blinder.
[33:03] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[33:04] Speaker 2: Look, I think I quickly learned when I arrived at
[33:06] Speaker 2: the Ruses, like Mitchell Pierce was a really good player,
[33:09] Speaker 2: like he is an elite player, and you know, you know,
[33:12] Speaker 2: spilled blood for the Rooster is a genuine guy that
[33:15] Speaker 2: cared for the club and did a good job.
[33:18] Speaker 3: But I quickly learned.
[33:19] Speaker 2: Arriving there that they didn't need a half back to
[33:23] Speaker 2: score more tries, set more tries up a very good team.
[33:26] Speaker 2: I think they just needed someone in a chaotic moment
[33:29] Speaker 2: that could make the right decision. And it's sort of
[33:33] Speaker 2: sometimes you can't explain why things happened. But I remember
[33:37] Speaker 2: the first eight weeks of twenty eighteen, we were four wins,
[33:41] Speaker 2: four losses, and people were calling for my head, like
[33:44] Speaker 2: they were like it wasn't working.
[33:46] Speaker 3: And there was a little shift.
[33:47] Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, but all of a sudden,
[33:49] Speaker 2: from Anzac Day onwards, when we got smashed by the Dragons,
[33:53] Speaker 2: a football started to go this way and things were
[33:57] Speaker 2: happening and then call it par or whatever. I'm playing
[34:01] Speaker 2: against the Melbourne Storm Roosters have got a busted shoulder.
[34:05] Speaker 2: I'm terrified. All I am is basically a traffic cop
[34:10] Speaker 2: telling people what to do on the field. And it
[34:13] Speaker 2: must have distracted Melbourne a little bit. It gave inspiration
[34:17] Speaker 2: to sixteen guys for the Roosters to play the game
[34:20] Speaker 2: of their life, and they carried me through it basically.
[34:24] Speaker 2: And I just remember walking in the stadium that day
[34:28] Speaker 2: and I was literally terrible. I wasn't far from tears
[34:31] Speaker 2: the majority of that day. I was just scared about
[34:33] Speaker 2: what was happening. And I saw that there was a
[34:36] Speaker 2: number of Melbourne Storm people looking out of the dressing sheds,
[34:39] Speaker 2: because when you walk into Stonium, Australia, the opposition sheds
[34:43] Speaker 2: are literally ten meters apart from each other. You turn
[34:45] Speaker 2: right into go the one room, return left to go
[34:47] Speaker 2: on the other, and they were all looking outside their
[34:49] Speaker 2: change room at me arriving. And then in that moment,
[34:53] Speaker 2: I thought maybe the distraction of me on this short
[34:55] Speaker 2: side might work. So then I started thinking about the
[34:58] Speaker 2: x's and o's of the game, which got me out
[35:00] Speaker 2: of the emotional baggage that was Karen led into it.
[35:05] Speaker 1: Foot is a great game in terms of watching brilliance
[35:08] Speaker 1: and you know, all the flashy stuff. But at the
[35:11] Speaker 1: end of the day, the teams will win competitions. Apart
[35:13] Speaker 1: from being good defensive sides, they have to have someone
[35:16] Speaker 1: who's sort of guiding around the park. How important today
[35:20] Speaker 1: and I just want to talk about the Queens Zone
[35:22] Speaker 1: side that's just been selected for State of Origin. How
[35:25] Speaker 1: important today is it to have that individual on the
[35:28] Speaker 1: field relative to just having raw talent brilliants. I think
[35:34] Speaker 1: having because that was you. That was you in that game,
[35:36] Speaker 1: and that's what we want cover to play the game,
[35:38] Speaker 1: because he's going to be at the back telling us
[35:39] Speaker 1: what to do, looking for gaps, looking for opportunities. That's you.
[35:42] Speaker 1: That was Fredding two thousand and two. Every team's had
[35:44] Speaker 1: one of these people. Queen zones always had this people in,
[35:47] Speaker 1: one of these people in their team. You've been one
[35:49] Speaker 1: of them. Jonathan Thurston has done it, they lock ear
[35:52] Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. How important is that in say,
[35:55] Speaker 1: the Queens of the State of Origin? Now, and who
[35:57] Speaker 1: do you think is going to be the dude.
[35:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Harry Grant month through. In today's Queens and
[36:01] Speaker 2: Origin team, it's important to have a good balance of
[36:05] Speaker 2: all the things that's needed to win, whether you're in
[36:07] Speaker 2: business or a football team. It's important to have leadership,
[36:11] Speaker 2: it's important to have selfless acts. It's important to have
[36:15] Speaker 2: physical guys, it's important to have athleticism. You put all
[36:18] Speaker 2: those things together and that's what makes a team operate
[36:22] Speaker 2: as long as that team has a team first mentality
[36:25] Speaker 2: in terms of what the result or the outcome of
[36:29] Speaker 2: us together is way more important than the individual outcome.
[36:33] Speaker 2: That is what makes the Queens and Origin team. Because
[36:36] Speaker 2: in quick summary, why Origin is great is because of
[36:41] Speaker 2: what the great Rooster did, Arthur Beatson did in nineteen eighty.
[36:45] Speaker 2: At the time he was playing lower grades in New
[36:47] Speaker 2: South Wales rugby League. Before that, it was all about
[36:50] Speaker 2: where you played.
[36:50] Speaker 3: That's what made Origin.
[36:52] Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty it was where you're born, which created
[36:54] Speaker 2: state of Origin. He was born in Queensland but played
[36:57] Speaker 2: in New South Wales, turned up to the first game
[36:59] Speaker 2: in ninety eight and punch holes through mccrona who was
[37:02] Speaker 2: a current Paramount player at the.
[37:03] Speaker 1: Time, actually literally punched holes that.
[37:05] Speaker 2: Created mate verse mate state verse state and as long
[37:08] Speaker 2: as that is the key part of Origin for the
[37:11] Speaker 2: next twenty years, Origin will still be the one of
[37:14] Speaker 2: the draw cards of Australian sports. So I think the
[37:18] Speaker 2: key part is to respect the legacy that was in
[37:21] Speaker 2: nineteen eighty, play for the now and deliver an outcome
[37:24] Speaker 2: for the next Arthur Beats and the next Cameron Smith
[37:27] Speaker 2: to come through. Because at the moment in that team
[37:30] Speaker 2: it's Cameron Munster and Harry Grahant.
[37:33] Speaker 1: So who's going to be the who's going to manage
[37:34] Speaker 1: it during the chaos because you use that word a
[37:36] Speaker 1: few times because that happens. Chaos happens in every game,
[37:40] Speaker 1: definitely at Origin level and like you both even like
[37:43] Speaker 1: let's say ten all, someone will know whatever sight lead,
[37:47] Speaker 1: someone has to manage you through the chaos. And who's
[37:50] Speaker 1: going to be the person because he's months through a
[37:52] Speaker 1: chaos manager.
[37:53] Speaker 2: He loves the chaos. He thrives in chaos. More from
[37:57] Speaker 2: a this is my chance to shine as opposed to
[38:00] Speaker 2: the thinking of the game. I think the guy that
[38:03] Speaker 2: makes good decisions come under pressure for Queensland is Harry Growry.
[38:07] Speaker 2: I think he is the key part to what Queensland do.
[38:11] Speaker 2: But on the flip side, the key part for Queensland
[38:17] Speaker 2: is Billy Slater.
[38:19] Speaker 1: You're the coach.
[38:20] Speaker 2: Billy Slater is the coach of Queensland. There is not
[38:22] Speaker 2: a single thing that Sam Walker, Kaylen Ponger Jojo Forfeeder
[38:28] Speaker 2: on debut. There is not a single thing that Billy
[38:30] Speaker 2: has not experienced in the Queens and Orange Jersey that
[38:32] Speaker 2: those guys that are back in the team or playing
[38:36] Speaker 2: their first game, they cannot lean on him for a
[38:39] Speaker 2: bit of advice because he is the best mentor for
[38:41] Speaker 2: those players coming through.
[38:42] Speaker 1: But the game's on. So Slaters up in the box
[38:45] Speaker 1: with all his like's helping everyone helping him out. He's
[38:49] Speaker 1: not on the field. I mean when you were playing Origin,
[38:51] Speaker 1: you're on the field.
[38:52] Speaker 2: I thought leaders on a football field are an extension
[38:55] Speaker 2: of the coach. Right, So if Trent Robinson had sent
[39:00] Speaker 2: down a message to us on the field at some
[39:04] Speaker 2: stage before halftime, I went a trible scored and I
[39:07] Speaker 2: as a leader along with you, Jake friend Boycourner u
[39:10] Speaker 2: Hard Grays Orbison hadn't spoken about that message to the
[39:15] Speaker 2: team already. I'm not doing my job. Leaders are an
[39:18] Speaker 2: extension of the coach. So that's why you take a
[39:21] Speaker 2: notebook to the video sessions, that's why you write things down.
[39:24] Speaker 1: Not everybody does, but you should to.
[39:26] Speaker 2: You should because you embedded in your brain because in
[39:28] Speaker 2: a moment of chaos, that thing will come back. And
[39:31] Speaker 2: I always felt like if Trent sent down a message
[39:35] Speaker 2: and I hadn't thought about it, or I hadn't said
[39:37] Speaker 2: it already, then I wasn't doing my job. And I
[39:40] Speaker 2: think that's the key to Harry Grant is Billy will
[39:44] Speaker 2: feed him information during the week and in the seventy
[39:47] Speaker 2: eighth minute when it is ten or Harry needs to
[39:50] Speaker 2: take that message from Billy and make sure he gets
[39:52] Speaker 2: a call.
[39:52] Speaker 3: Right.
[39:52] Speaker 1: How does it work in a game?
[39:53] Speaker 2: Then?
[39:54] Speaker 1: Because I've always found this it intriguing, I'm like, let's
[39:56] Speaker 1: say Billy wants to send a message down or as
[39:59] Speaker 1: say it's Bellamy or Robbo or whatever. How does the
[40:03] Speaker 1: trainer comes on. What does he come up to you
[40:05] Speaker 1: say we're going to do this.
[40:07] Speaker 2: The training can only come on a certain amount of times, right,
[40:09] Speaker 2: So that adds more leverage to why senior players are
[40:13] Speaker 2: key to understand how the game unfire. It's why Cameron
[40:16] Speaker 2: Smith was the best at his craft for a long
[40:17] Speaker 2: period time. There was not a moment in the game
[40:20] Speaker 2: that Cameron didn't know what to do. And that is
[40:23] Speaker 2: an extension of Craig Bellamy's tutelage. So you know he
[40:27] Speaker 2: would always understand that. You know, if it is a
[40:30] Speaker 2: moment of chaos, there is people going crazy in their mind,
[40:34] Speaker 2: scared under pressure. But the key thing to handling pressure
[40:38] Speaker 2: is to understand that you can't see it, you can't
[40:41] Speaker 2: touch pressure, but we feel it. So that says to
[40:44] Speaker 2: me that it doesn't stop you from doing the actions
[40:46] Speaker 2: that requires you to be successful in a period of time.
[40:49] Speaker 2: So if someone's trying to kick a game winning field
[40:53] Speaker 2: goal in an Origin decider, a Grand Final, whatever, and
[40:57] Speaker 2: if you let the external outcome get in way of
[41:01] Speaker 2: the process, you're in trouble because the process will always
[41:04] Speaker 2: deliver the outcome that you want. So field goal, for example,
[41:08] Speaker 2: there is a lot of people.
[41:10] Speaker 3: At home watching.
[41:10] Speaker 2: There's the stadium, there's your team, there's the scoreboard, there's this.
[41:14] Speaker 2: You better do it otherwise you're going to be fail
[41:16] Speaker 2: if you start thinking like that. It's toss of a
[41:20] Speaker 2: coin whether you're going to kick the field goal or not.
[41:22] Speaker 2: But you've got to learn through chaos to focus on
[41:25] Speaker 2: literally the technical parts that make you successful. And in summary,
[41:29] Speaker 2: it was literally how you caught the ball, how you
[41:31] Speaker 2: drop the ball on the ground, and your foot position
[41:33] Speaker 2: on the ball. So it doesn't matter what the score
[41:35] Speaker 2: ward is, doesn't matter how many moving people at home,
[41:37] Speaker 2: doesn't matter if who's yelling at you behind you, and
[41:39] Speaker 2: the pressure of the outcome. If you literally just focus
[41:42] Speaker 2: on those three technical things, you will become more successful
[41:47] Speaker 2: than not. It's a little bit like, yeah, financial markets
[41:51] Speaker 2: at the moment, like there's geopolitical stuff, there's interest rates,
[41:55] Speaker 2: there's you know, the budget, you know, there's a lot
[41:57] Speaker 2: of things that come into chaos at the moment. But
[42:00] Speaker 2: making an investment decision is, you know, do you have
[42:04] Speaker 2: the money in the right buckets and what are the
[42:06] Speaker 2: sound investment decisions based on that fund or that person
[42:10] Speaker 2: or whatever. So the fundamentals of the key part to
[42:15] Speaker 2: delivering any precious situation.
[42:16] Speaker 1: Well maybe you don't need to make a decision wait, yeah.
[42:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever, Yeah, but it is the process of something
[42:21] Speaker 2: that delivers in an outcome. If you're an outcome focused person,
[42:25] Speaker 2: you'll forget the process and your chance of success is bigger.
[42:29] Speaker 1: Can we just talk about the queens And side. Then
[42:32] Speaker 1: what do you think. I mean, you didn't select it,
[42:33] Speaker 1: But like.
[42:34] Speaker 2: I'm on the Queens and Rugby League board, I'm not
[42:37] Speaker 2: a selector. You know, Billy is very stoic, confident in
[42:41] Speaker 2: the way that he coaches a game and sees the
[42:44] Speaker 2: game clearly. I think that when he picks a team,
[42:49] Speaker 2: he is sat in his little bunker at home with
[42:51] Speaker 2: the ten television screens with every angle, and he doesn't
[42:55] Speaker 2: watch tries get scored. He doesn't watch chip and chases,
[43:00] Speaker 2: choose the movements defensively of effort, never giving up. If
[43:05] Speaker 2: this person the seventieth minute when it is ten all
[43:07] Speaker 2: and New South Wales are playing better, will he keep
[43:10] Speaker 2: moving and save a try?
[43:11] Speaker 3: That's his mindset.
[43:13] Speaker 2: And you can talk about, you know, some of Reys
[43:16] Speaker 2: Walsh not being there kaylen Ponger in I would suggest
[43:20] Speaker 2: that he's seen some things in Kaylen Ponger's game that
[43:22] Speaker 2: says that he will do the play in the seventy
[43:25] Speaker 2: ninth minute when it's needed. Sam Walker being half back
[43:28] Speaker 2: Cameron Mounster was always going to be the five eight.
[43:32] Speaker 2: Don't care how much football you've watched, anyone that said
[43:35] Speaker 2: the camera monster wasn't going to be there is on
[43:38] Speaker 2: a different planet. He was always going to be there.
[43:40] Speaker 2: Sam Walker, congratulations to him. You know he Debu. You
[43:44] Speaker 2: know that is an ipswitch kid growing up wanting to
[43:49] Speaker 2: play Queensland Origin and he's about to wear the seven
[43:51] Speaker 2: jersey Alan Langer did so many times before. There's one
[43:55] Speaker 2: thing that you need to play Origin on Debuo, and
[43:57] Speaker 2: that's a bucket load of self confidence and he's got
[44:01] Speaker 2: He's got that so he'll be in a good position
[44:04] Speaker 2: to play the game of his life.
[44:06] Speaker 3: Now.
[44:06] Speaker 2: There's a couple of other good stories like Tom Flegler,
[44:08] Speaker 2: the front rower. Yeah, his career was almost over a
[44:11] Speaker 2: couple of years ago. He's got origin in Lindsay Collins.
[44:15] Speaker 2: He if there's a ball on the grounds and it's
[44:18] Speaker 2: a blue jersey versus Morown Jersey and Lindsay Collins is
[44:21] Speaker 2: the guy on the Marone jersey. I'm putting everything I've
[44:24] Speaker 2: gone on Lindsay getting.
[44:25] Speaker 3: To the ball first.
[44:26] Speaker 2: That's the type of people that you want to play
[44:28] Speaker 2: for your state in in a big game like this.
[44:32] Speaker 1: What did he mean in your so well side?
[44:34] Speaker 2: Because somebody cares about the new South Wales? Yeah good,
[44:38] Speaker 2: I think Eddy I said before, performance is king when
[44:43] Speaker 2: it comes to leadership and being selected. Like whatever he
[44:48] Speaker 2: is having on his week, bix or whatever he teddy
[44:52] Speaker 2: is he is the prototype for a fullback and an
[44:57] Speaker 2: elite player, staying consistent to the point his game just
[45:00] Speaker 2: keeps getting better.
[45:01] Speaker 1: Full longevity unbelievable.
[45:02] Speaker 2: He is physically ready more than any other player in
[45:05] Speaker 2: this competition and he deserves that chance. Nathan Cleary is
[45:09] Speaker 2: a pro like he is, He's a perfect balance of
[45:14] Speaker 2: a Rugula League player and a half back these days.
[45:18] Speaker 2: So he will run a game plan that New South
[45:20] Speaker 2: Wales think will execute. He will pick apart the weaknesses
[45:25] Speaker 2: in the Queensland defense and then yeah, you've got some
[45:28] Speaker 2: other guys like Isaiah Yoh. You know love what he
[45:32] Speaker 2: goes about it. He is literally the guy that you
[45:34] Speaker 2: can look to and go, you know what. I know
[45:36] Speaker 2: he's going to deliver eight and a half out of ten,
[45:38] Speaker 2: so that allows me to concentrate on my role. That's
[45:40] Speaker 2: basically what a team does is we all help each
[45:43] Speaker 2: other along the line, and the more that we compliment
[45:46] Speaker 2: each other, the more chance we're going to get confidence
[45:48] Speaker 2: and momentum that comes through. And Isaiah, yeah, is a
[45:52] Speaker 2: brilliant player as well.
[45:54] Speaker 1: And I don't apologize because this is a podcast about you,
[45:56] Speaker 1: but I just couldn't miss the opportunity asking about in
[45:58] Speaker 1: New South Wales side and his own side. Can I
[46:01] Speaker 1: assu you let's just talk about your podcast that you
[46:04] Speaker 1: have with Maddy John's.
[46:07] Speaker 2: You're plugging podcasts on your podcast.
[46:09] Speaker 1: Well, I know, I love the show. I watched the
[46:11] Speaker 1: show because I think it's the most informative regularly analysis
[46:15] Speaker 1: there is. To be honest with you, what's did I
[46:18] Speaker 1: work with Maddy John's as a football and analytical football talent.
[46:25] Speaker 2: He's one of the smartest guys in our game. So
[46:30] Speaker 2: going back to two thousand and six, Matt Orford left
[46:33] Speaker 2: the Melbourne Storm and went to come back to Sydney
[46:36] Speaker 2: Northern Eagles and Manly. At the time, Craig bellmy gaming chance.
[46:40] Speaker 2: I still don't know why gaming chance, but it did.
[46:44] Speaker 2: If it wasn't for him introducing you, Matthew Johns, I
[46:47] Speaker 2: don't think I would have developed quickly enough to make
[46:53] Speaker 2: half back job mine for a long period of time.
[46:56] Speaker 2: I had work ethic, competitive business, willing to learn all
[47:02] Speaker 2: those stuff like I was never gonna not try my
[47:05] Speaker 2: best at it, but he taught me the x's and o's,
[47:09] Speaker 2: the nuances that over generations, doesn't matter how the game
[47:15] Speaker 2: is played, a halfback needs to do like your body position,
[47:19] Speaker 2: telling a lie with your hips, where do you hold
[47:21] Speaker 2: the ball when you're running footwork to try and beat
[47:24] Speaker 2: a defender. He taught me all of those things.
[47:27] Speaker 1: So he was great by observation, or he actually said physical.
[47:31] Speaker 2: One on one, we used to go down the park
[47:32] Speaker 2: and his place line out cones Witch is at and
[47:37] Speaker 2: literally do footwork pretending that's the defensive line and just
[47:40] Speaker 2: moving your body around to understand that if you lean
[47:43] Speaker 2: in on a defender, that defender will lean on on you,
[47:45] Speaker 2: and that's how you create a pass. I didn't know
[47:47] Speaker 2: that before meeting Matthew. And you talk about the podcast
[47:50] Speaker 2: and the show. Mattie's probably one of the few people
[47:53] Speaker 2: in rugby league media that has the ability to entertain
[47:58] Speaker 2: the person that wants to be entertained the beer in
[48:00] Speaker 2: the hand on the couch. But then you can also
[48:02] Speaker 2: talk very analytically about rugby league and people go, oh,
[48:06] Speaker 2: I totally get that, And he taught me that. To
[48:09] Speaker 2: make sure that the rugby league audience is engaged is
[48:13] Speaker 2: you need to be able to do both. So I
[48:15] Speaker 2: was more the analytical person, and he has.
[48:18] Speaker 3: The ability to do both.
[48:20] Speaker 2: So to not alienate your different ends of the spectrum
[48:24] Speaker 2: in the audience, you need to move in and out.
[48:26] Speaker 2: So for every analytical thing you might say, you might say,
[48:29] Speaker 2: he's something that's self deprecating or something that's funny or lighthearted,
[48:32] Speaker 2: so you keep people engaged as a game or the
[48:35] Speaker 2: podcast or the show on falls. And he taught me that,
[48:39] Speaker 2: and he's a big part of what I've done. And
[48:42] Speaker 2: Steve Prawle at Fox too, He's helped me out about
[48:46] Speaker 2: you know, I used to talk about information was king.
[48:50] Speaker 2: I used to write down everything that was at football, right,
[48:52] Speaker 2: every bit of information. I moved that into TV land
[48:56] Speaker 2: and all of a sudden I started sound in like
[48:58] Speaker 2: a computer and quite boring trying to get this information
[49:00] Speaker 2: into my commentary, whereas now I am literally less as more.
[49:03] Speaker 2: Give me a team sheet and I'll tell you at
[49:05] Speaker 2: home something that you don't see on the television screen,
[49:08] Speaker 2: something that's unfolding. Because of how come Gladwell ten thousand hours,
[49:13] Speaker 2: you can see things unfollowing, like there's four players on
[49:16] Speaker 2: three players, that's a number advantage, so they're most likely
[49:19] Speaker 2: going to go here, so you try and predict the
[49:21] Speaker 2: outcome before it happens. So Maddie was crucial to me
[49:25] Speaker 2: in my footy career and he is a great someone
[49:28] Speaker 2: to bounce something off in TV land as well.
[49:30] Speaker 1: You know, I've talked about this before and you just
[49:32] Speaker 1: mentioned it again. That's some of the great players. And
[49:37] Speaker 1: let's pick halves of five eighths and halves as a
[49:40] Speaker 1: good example. And you can talk about Joe Johns, you
[49:43] Speaker 1: can talk about Freddie. You guys you know, like ere
[49:46] Speaker 1: et cetera. For a punter like me, an observer of
[49:50] Speaker 1: the game, it always seems like you guys got more
[49:52] Speaker 1: time than everybody else. It's literally I feel like either
[49:56] Speaker 1: the oppositions holding off you new and gives you more
[49:59] Speaker 1: time because they're trying to work out what you're going
[50:00] Speaker 1: to do. And i'd actually know what the answer is,
[50:03] Speaker 1: are like it helped me out here, or alternatively you
[50:06] Speaker 1: somehow manage to measurize everybody and slow the game down.
[50:09] Speaker 1: It just looks like you've got more time to pass,
[50:10] Speaker 1: more time to kick, more time to run, more time
[50:12] Speaker 1: to set something up. What is that? And I mean
[50:15] Speaker 1: amongst the particularly the great halves. You know first it's
[50:18] Speaker 1: the same.
[50:20] Speaker 3: Preparation is the key.
[50:22] Speaker 2: What I mean by that is know your opposition, analyze
[50:26] Speaker 2: them to the nth degree, know what your team is about,
[50:30] Speaker 2: and be prepared for the moment or the game on
[50:33] Speaker 2: the weekend. But as a half, there's you need to
[50:37] Speaker 2: be able to play with speed and you need to
[50:39] Speaker 2: play slow. So if you just play one pace, you
[50:42] Speaker 2: get pretty predictable and teams will start to pick you apart.
[50:46] Speaker 2: But if you move faster than the defense's moving, you'll
[50:49] Speaker 2: beat a player. If you move slower, then they'll start
[50:52] Speaker 2: leaning for you and engage in when they shouldn't. So
[50:55] Speaker 2: the best players, when you talk about time, know when
[50:58] Speaker 2: to play fast and take advantage or play slow to
[51:02] Speaker 2: engage someone to do something they don't want to do.
[51:05] Speaker 1: It a conscious skill or dis instinct.
[51:07] Speaker 3: All of the above.
[51:08] Speaker 2: It's it's work, it's repetition, it's trial and error training,
[51:12] Speaker 2: it's the great players have.
[51:15] Speaker 3: Yes, they get.
[51:17] Speaker 2: Renowned for winning in a moment, and that's what great
[51:20] Speaker 2: players do. But the majority of people, and even Michael
[51:23] Speaker 2: Jordan said it like they've lost more than they've won.
[51:26] Speaker 2: Michael Jordan lost more game winning shots than he won.
[51:29] Speaker 2: But you learn through your losses and your misses for
[51:32] Speaker 2: your next win. And I think that's how great players
[51:35] Speaker 2: do it. They go, okay, they don't make the same
[51:37] Speaker 2: mistake twice. That play got me there, But next time
[51:39] Speaker 2: I'm going to go back there five minutes later, I'm
[51:42] Speaker 2: going to hold the ball exactly the same way, but
[51:44] Speaker 2: this time I'm actually gonna throw it over the top
[51:46] Speaker 2: as opposed to playing short. And I think it's the
[51:49] Speaker 2: intelligence that halves particularly, mix it up with the ability
[51:53] Speaker 2: to maneuver defenses around and make them do things they
[51:57] Speaker 2: don't want to do. When you're half in the NROL
[51:59] Speaker 2: and you'll make the opposition defense do things that they
[52:01] Speaker 2: don't want to do, you're at the top of your game.
[52:04] Speaker 1: That's interesting you should say that because doze therefore by
[52:08] Speaker 1: definitely should mean that a half, no matter how good
[52:12] Speaker 1: his talent will be in the early stages, will take
[52:16] Speaker 1: time to become a really great half because he has
[52:20] Speaker 1: to exercise their curiosity and try things to see what
[52:22] Speaker 1: does work and what does work.
[52:24] Speaker 2: Throw the question back at you, how long did it
[52:25] Speaker 2: take you to be a great business leader?
[52:27] Speaker 1: It takes me still every day correct.
[52:29] Speaker 2: And that that is the mindset of all great leaders
[52:32] Speaker 2: across every industry. The moment you feel like you've made
[52:36] Speaker 2: it is the moment someone goes past you. So I
[52:39] Speaker 2: feel like the great players are forever willing to learn.
[52:43] Speaker 2: Once they climb one mountain, it's the new standard, and
[52:46] Speaker 2: the next mountain is always something they're ready to climb.
[52:49] Speaker 2: So you know guys that win a Grand Final and
[52:53] Speaker 2: then that's their height, they fall off that they've already
[52:56] Speaker 2: climbed their everest and they don't feel like they need
[52:58] Speaker 2: to work hard anymore. Those when multiple ones reach it,
[53:01] Speaker 2: and that is the new baseline from here on in,
[53:04] Speaker 2: we're going to find another mountain to climb and keep
[53:06] Speaker 2: working hard to get that. And as long as you've
[53:08] Speaker 2: got that drive, whether it's in business or sport, long
[53:11] Speaker 2: as you've got that driver as a person, you're worth
[53:13] Speaker 2: someone that they should recruit or invest in. Because you've
[53:16] Speaker 2: got that mindset, you can find the answer.
[53:18] Speaker 1: It's about mindset, isn't it. You're in as good as
[53:20] Speaker 1: your last win, and then you've got to get better.
[53:22] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[53:23] Speaker 2: I think the mindset underpins how hard you're willing to work, right,
[53:28] Speaker 2: and if you're willing to work. You could teach most
[53:31] Speaker 2: people your business concepts pretty easy. That person that's willing
[53:36] Speaker 2: to work hard to understand them.
[53:38] Speaker 1: It's interesting. Can we talk about post footy then, Like,
[53:41] Speaker 1: I mean, everybody knows you're doing commentary at the moment,
[53:44] Speaker 1: but probably a lot of people don't realize you're doing
[53:46] Speaker 1: other things outside of that. But let's just talk about
[53:49] Speaker 1: one time with family. So you're married, you have children,
[53:55] Speaker 1: you live in Sydney. Your wife she's still working, not
[53:59] Speaker 1: working anymore.
[54:00] Speaker 2: She works for Channel ten and Paramount Plus.
[54:02] Speaker 1: She's still working. One of the reason you came to
[54:05] Speaker 1: Sydney is because she was in Sydney. As I recall,
[54:07] Speaker 1: she had a job in Sydney at the time. And
[54:10] Speaker 1: what's it like for Cooper Kronk post footy and outside
[54:14] Speaker 1: of commentary though, yep? And like physicality, for example, what
[54:18] Speaker 1: do you do? What's your training look like? Do you
[54:20] Speaker 1: still train because you look great? You still look healthy?
[54:23] Speaker 3: That's kind of mark, thank you.
[54:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did every diet possible when I was playing,
[54:30] Speaker 2: tried everything under the sun is now still at at
[54:33] Speaker 2: the end of the day. Eliminate sugar, Eliminate processed foods
[54:36] Speaker 2: and carbs, and you'll be okay. I don't train nearly
[54:39] Speaker 2: as much as I used to. I'd probably go for
[54:41] Speaker 2: a run once or twice a week, play golf once,
[54:44] Speaker 2: play a bit of tennis, maybe a bit of gym
[54:46] Speaker 2: once every two or three weeks. It's nowhere near as intense.
[54:50] Speaker 2: But going back to the family thing, like I played
[54:53] Speaker 2: contact sport for a living. The two biggest influences on
[54:58] Speaker 2: my life are two women, my mum and my wife.
[55:01] Speaker 2: They are the ones that have shaped me as a
[55:03] Speaker 2: person outside the sporting environment. And happily married two beautiful
[55:10] Speaker 2: boys five and eight, Lenny and Harley. And if there's
[55:13] Speaker 2: one thing I learned through my time coming to Sydney
[55:16] Speaker 2: at the Roosters for fourteen years at Melbourne, I was
[55:21] Speaker 2: narrow focus. I was football. Winning was everything, and other
[55:26] Speaker 2: things like for example, eating an ice cream or going
[55:29] Speaker 2: out having a bit that got in the road of winning,
[55:31] Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it.
[55:32] Speaker 1: I was had a bit of obsession.
[55:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, it was. Absolutely it was.
[55:37] Speaker 2: And moving to Sydney, the Roosters were great at offering
[55:42] Speaker 2: my family in football to be in the same city
[55:44] Speaker 2: for the first time, and I learned that off field
[55:50] Speaker 2: happiness can definitely affect your on field performance. I had wife,
[55:56] Speaker 2: started a kid, got married, settled down in Sydney, and
[56:00] Speaker 2: it was probably not less time focused on football, but
[56:04] Speaker 2: definitely in terms of obsessiveness less time. But football also
[56:08] Speaker 2: went that way. And I look back on it and thought,
[56:10] Speaker 2: that's because of the stability of my wife, my family,
[56:14] Speaker 2: the happiness that was off field that translated to on
[56:17] Speaker 2: field and allowed me to still play at a decent
[56:20] Speaker 2: level at a much older age and probably less rigid
[56:27] Speaker 2: or less in terms of obsessive compulsive about my performance
[56:31] Speaker 2: and training standards.
[56:32] Speaker 1: Is that something that that Trent Robinson did. Did you
[56:35] Speaker 1: talk to Trent rob Was about that sort of stuff?
[56:37] Speaker 1: Is that a thing?
[56:39] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[56:39] Speaker 2: So trend is he is a good man, his moral
[56:42] Speaker 2: compass is due North, and he is a worldly guy,
[56:46] Speaker 2: like you know, he's bilingual. You could speak to him
[56:51] Speaker 2: about football, you can speak to him about family, you
[56:54] Speaker 2: can speak to him about geopolitical issues. Right, And there's
[56:57] Speaker 2: something a little bit more that I enjoyed about my
[57:01] Speaker 2: relationship with Trent about all those conversations.
[57:05] Speaker 3: And I went from being really blinker is.
[57:10] Speaker 1: On about single minded.
[57:11] Speaker 2: Single minded blink is on about football, to actually, you know,
[57:15] Speaker 2: I had my first child when I was six months
[57:18] Speaker 2: into my career. At the Rooster's meeting, you nick like,
[57:23] Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that I started to open up.
[57:27] Speaker 2: It's about what was possible. But my football didn't change.
[57:29] Speaker 2: It taught me that you can still be successful at
[57:34] Speaker 2: something without having to sacrifice ninety eight percent of your
[57:37] Speaker 2: life to be as good as you can be.
[57:40] Speaker 1: And when you play footage, what would you wait.
[57:42] Speaker 3: In eighty eight killos?
[57:45] Speaker 1: And what do you walk around now?
[57:47] Speaker 3: About eighty three?
[57:48] Speaker 1: Mini is about the same. Mini would just be about
[57:50] Speaker 1: ninety kilos, but he walked about eighty tikilos now. So
[57:53] Speaker 1: what happens to you physically? Do you do you lose
[57:56] Speaker 1: your glutes and your legs or what happens physically?
[58:00] Speaker 2: I use is when I was playing football, I never
[58:02] Speaker 2: used to be able to do a business shirt up
[58:03] Speaker 2: in the button.
[58:04] Speaker 3: I used to have to get the extended a bit.
[58:05] Speaker 1: You had a pretty big neck.
[58:06] Speaker 2: So I went on to walk around like that the
[58:07] Speaker 2: whole time. But now I can easily put the tie
[58:10] Speaker 2: on and the business suit over the top. I think, yeah,
[58:14] Speaker 2: my diet hasn't changed all that much. But the one
[58:18] Speaker 2: thing is is the weight. So you go from sixteen
[58:21] Speaker 2: years lifting heavy resistance training three times a week to
[58:27] Speaker 2: do it once every three weeks now and nowhere near
[58:29] Speaker 2: the amount of weights. So I think naturally athletes that
[58:33] Speaker 2: play contact sport will normally lose weight in terms of
[58:37] Speaker 2: muscle bulk just because they don't lift or train nearly
[58:40] Speaker 2: as much.
[58:41] Speaker 1: But it is physical fitness or physical health. It is
[58:46] Speaker 1: an obsession obsession for you. Still you must be like that.
[58:50] Speaker 2: Yes, I think there's something about getting up at early
[58:54] Speaker 2: in the morning, going for run, jumping in the water,
[58:58] Speaker 2: getting a cold plunge. Me about how that starts your
[59:01] Speaker 2: day better off than just rolling out a bed at
[59:03] Speaker 2: eight o'clock. I don't train nearly as much as I
[59:06] Speaker 2: used to, but still it plays a vital part in
[59:09] Speaker 2: your in, your in your week and your a billy
[59:12] Speaker 2: like Saturday mornings are the best part of my wife
[59:16] Speaker 2: and I. We we get to follow our two kids
[59:18] Speaker 2: around soccer fields around the state of New South Wales,
[59:21] Speaker 2: grab a croissant, grab a coffee and off we go.
[59:24] Speaker 2: So there's the balance thing that adds to it. I
[59:28] Speaker 2: probably don't have too many croissants mark anymore, but that
[59:30] Speaker 2: is still the best part of our weekend. You know,
[59:33] Speaker 2: got some TV work commitments, got some working financial services
[59:38] Speaker 2: as well, and it really adds up to you, Yeah,
[59:43] Speaker 2: something that I really enjoy.
[59:44] Speaker 1: Do the boys play footy, rugby league, or they're playing soccer?
[59:48] Speaker 2: Now they're playing soccer. And I get this question a lot.
[59:51] Speaker 3: Are you going to push the boys into rugby league
[59:53] Speaker 3: and whatever?
[59:53] Speaker 2: And my answer to that is they will play whatever
[59:56] Speaker 2: they want to play as long as they say thank
[59:58] Speaker 2: you and plea is to mum and dad. I'll take
[1:00:01] Speaker 2: them to violin lessons, I'll take them to debating, take
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: them to a rugby league match, does not matter, as
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: long as you know they use their manners and ask
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: my wife and I to do it nicely, and then
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: they go anywhere they want to go.
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: But does this good wrong? Sit there with the boys
[1:00:15] Speaker 1: on a if he's not calling a game, to watch
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: a game, tell you watch?
[1:00:19] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[1:00:20] Speaker 1: Absolutely?
[1:00:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: Rugby league played a huge part in my life and
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: and it copts some black eyes every now and again
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: rugby league, and rightly so, like self incriminated type stuff.
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: But on the flip side, it also gives and this
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: is not just rugby league but sport in general. It
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: gives an opportunity to people, both men and women these days,
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: that have a better life than they thought was possible.
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: But there is kids in Middle Queensland, there are kids
[1:00:46] Speaker 2: in western Sydney that idolized James Dedesco and Reswalsh, and
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: if they can somehow get to the point that they
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: might be able to live out their dream, they might
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: give their family a better chance at Lafe than what
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: was possible if they hadn't have seen Rugby League or
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: seen it on television.
[1:01:03] Speaker 3: So yeah, I think the.
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: League copse it's fair share of criticism, but on the
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: flip side, it is doing a really good job in
[1:01:11] Speaker 2: a lot of different communities and people's lives.
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: SA had Michael Chamas on here last week and that
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: sort of was the theme of the discussion with Michael
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: in relation to the P and G side, the chieftains
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: the chiefs, they should say, because the people in PAINI
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: absolutely idolized rugby League players and to some extent it
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: gives them a better life, give them something to look
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: forward to, something to aspire to in particular, and also
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: you know National pride and all those other sorts of things.
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: Do you feel as though when you were playing that
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: you had a level of responsibility to those kids, idolizing
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: who Cooper Kronk was.
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: Not At the early part, it was arrogance, confidence on
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: living out to dream and doing.
[1:01:56] Speaker 3: This for myself.
[1:01:56] Speaker 1: Do you make any mistakes?
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: Absolutely made more than a got right.
[1:02:01] Speaker 1: I mean I don't mean on the field, I mean
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: off field.
[1:02:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: There's a couple of moments, for example, the salary cap
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: year of two terminus Melbourne storm that flowed me in
[1:02:12] Speaker 2: terms of you know, it works so hard for something,
[1:02:14] Speaker 2: it just got taken away, dropped, the bottom lip started sulking,
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: did some things I probably regret but ultimately played a
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: part in me having the next phase of my career.
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: And you talk about twenty fourteen, I think it was
[1:02:28] Speaker 1: fourteen or sixteen.
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: Sixteen Grand Final. Yeah, so twenty sixteen Grand Final was basically.
[1:02:35] Speaker 1: A who are you playing? Who are you playing?
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: Played the Kronella Sharks. The Grand Final twenty sixteen is
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: easily in the top or bottom three worst games I've
[1:02:48] Speaker 2: ever played.
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: Not a good time to play a bad game, not
[1:02:51] Speaker 1: a good time.
[1:02:52] Speaker 3: It rattled me.
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: I was in the pits of depression for.
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: A while, actually depressed or yeah, look, yeah, I.
[1:03:00] Speaker 3: Was filthy at myself like I stuffed up.
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: I stuffed up on the biggest stage twenty sixteen. Yeah,
[1:03:09] Speaker 2: I met my wife now, but a girlfriend at the
[1:03:12] Speaker 2: time won the Daly Am in twenty sixteen. Billy wasn't playing.
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: We walked into the grand final. I'm super confident. I
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: think I can play really well, and we're playing against
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: the Cronella Sharks, who historically have smashed me every.
[1:03:27] Speaker 3: Time we played.
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: And I knew that was coming, and I didn't want
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: to take a backwards step. I wanted to be the guy.
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: And this is where the lesson was learned for the
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: next three years. So I kept trying, trying. They won,
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: They beat me, they beat us.
[1:03:43] Speaker 1: He fell into the trap.
[1:03:44] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I fell into it.
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: And all I had to do in that game was
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: be a decoy for one or two players and let
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: someone else set up the try or maybe and we
[1:03:53] Speaker 2: might have won. And there's nothing guaranteed here. We might
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: have And I left that game. Yeah, probably the worst
[1:04:01] Speaker 2: feeling after a game that I've ever played and then
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: ask for. I just got over it. So that happened
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: in October. Just got over it. Arrived back to Melboys
[1:04:10] Speaker 2: Storm in January for training and Craig Bellamy has made
[1:04:14] Speaker 2: us sit through a review of it, and all I'm
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: doing is I'm sitting in the back of this video
[1:04:18] Speaker 2: going I just see myself doing bad things, bad things, negativity,
[1:04:22] Speaker 2: and it just went back into this thing, and I
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: just kept saying to myself that all I had to
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: do was be more selfless, and I think we might
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: have been a chance to win. All I had to
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: do was selfless. It's not about me. It was about
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: setting someone else up for something. So I wrote down
[1:04:36] Speaker 2: on a piece of paper and gave it to Adam
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: O'Brien at the time.
[1:04:40] Speaker 3: Who was the assistant coach in Melbourne.
[1:04:41] Speaker 2: I wrote down the back of this room, if I
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: ever get another chance of this, I'm not going to
[1:04:46] Speaker 2: make the same mistake twice. That lesson was don't be
[1:04:50] Speaker 2: the hero, don't try and be the main man. If
[1:04:53] Speaker 2: there is an opportunity for someone else to be that
[1:04:56] Speaker 2: guy that wins it, do whatever it takes to help
[1:04:59] Speaker 2: that person and a team win. Gave it to Adam O'Brien.
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: I said, hold onto this, you give it back to
[1:05:05] Speaker 2: me when you think it's the right time. Twenty seventeen
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: ended up being my last year at Melbourne. He gave
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: it back to me after the prelim final of twenty seventeen.
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: I read it and just knew exactly what I had
[1:05:19] Speaker 2: to do. So one twenty seventeen, decided to go the
[1:05:22] Speaker 2: Rouses in twenty eighteen and I'm injured in two thousand
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: and eight with the shoulders were he spoken about I'm
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: against the Melbourne Storm and I read that paper again.
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: Wow, like I just I.
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: Just knew that that's the role I had to play.
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: So that lesson in twenty sixteen helped me win the
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: next three, like it truly did. Like I was thirty
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: odd years of age, been playing for thirteen fourteen years,
[1:05:47] Speaker 2: and I just learned a huge lesson around about yourself,
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: about myself and winning and losing and what it takes.
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: So if there's a lesson out of Grand finals in
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: big moments, it's not about you know, being the main man. Yes,
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: you have to have confidence, but you do whatever it
[1:06:03] Speaker 2: takes for your team to win. That's that's the lesson.
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: I get a couple quick questions. I want to ask
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: you if you're more of advice than anything, come the
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: PNG chiefs in the Perth expansion. Do you think the talent.
[1:06:13] Speaker 1: Po can fill those teams up with enough talent at
[1:06:16] Speaker 1: this stage, or we've got to broad out our scope
[1:06:18] Speaker 1: for talent.
[1:06:19] Speaker 3: Pele. I think we have enough talent.
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: I think we need to have the right coaches in
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: the right positions. So for the Chiefs, yeah, I think
[1:06:29] Speaker 2: Willie Peters is the coach. But it's a key part
[1:06:32] Speaker 2: for Michael chamis to recruit people who actually genuinely care
[1:06:35] Speaker 2: about legacy, Like this is a nation that loves rugby.
[1:06:39] Speaker 1: League if they live, and this.
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: Is a nation that you as an opportunity to sort
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: of rugby league to be the vehicle to make something
[1:06:47] Speaker 2: greater than what it is. And if you get players
[1:06:50] Speaker 2: who genuinely care about that notion, I think it'll work.
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: But if you get players that just want to take
[1:06:55] Speaker 2: the tax free money, I don't think it'll work. That's
[1:07:00] Speaker 2: that's the recruiting piece that that team has to challenge.
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: It's funny Chamler said to me what he likes to
[1:07:06] Speaker 1: do is get them to sit down there and talk
[1:07:08] Speaker 1: about their families and their families coming and why their
[1:07:10] Speaker 1: family wants to come. He's really trying to build a
[1:07:13] Speaker 1: family culture, which I think that's a good idea.
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: And you know, whether it's the Chiefs or the Roosters,
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: the roosters have that culture. Like this is the one
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: thing I really admire about Trent the Board and everything
[1:07:25] Speaker 2: is the roosters are seemed to be you know, late
[1:07:27] Speaker 2: sip in Eastern suburbs guys right the open go to
[1:07:30] Speaker 2: night class and things like that.
[1:07:31] Speaker 3: Whatever.
[1:07:32] Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, Trent the Board,
[1:07:35] Speaker 2: they know the mums and dads of every player, They
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: know the sisters, they know the siblings, they know the
[1:07:40] Speaker 2: milestones in that person's life. And when you invite these
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: people back into the building, call it every three months
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: or however long you do these different events, and there
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: was genuine care. Whether it's a coach, a board, a
[1:07:54] Speaker 2: player or a family member. That community plays a big
[1:07:58] Speaker 2: part if someone feels like they're connected to that community
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: or not. So the Chiefs will have to do a
[1:08:03] Speaker 2: very simple thing, but it's already established in the other
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: clubs as well, so they're going to have to do
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: it better than those and faster.
[1:08:09] Speaker 3: Yep.
[1:08:09] Speaker 1: Correct, So just can we just quickly talk about it
[1:08:12] Speaker 1: if you don't mind your other business interests outside of footy,
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: you've joined the Brison based property investment firm market investment managers. So,
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: and are you also with another mob called a city
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: based mob called viola private wealth? What are you doing
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: those organizations opening doors? Or are you actually trying to
[1:08:31] Speaker 1: learn stuff from them?
[1:08:32] Speaker 3: All of the above.
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: So, what I loved about sport is I loved pressure,
[1:08:37] Speaker 2: I love responsibility, and I love making decisions that I
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: have consequences. And when I retired, moved into TV land
[1:08:45] Speaker 2: and enjoy it. But it doesn't really have that pressure
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: and responsibility piece. As long as you don't say anything stupid,
[1:08:50] Speaker 2: you'll be okay on television. Right, and mutual friend of ours,
[1:08:55] Speaker 2: mentor of both of ours, I imagine, introduced me to
[1:08:58] Speaker 2: Toby Lewis and the managing director at Marquette, and I
[1:09:02] Speaker 2: probably went about my probaty career backwards. I invested in
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: some money first and then started asking a thousand questions
[1:09:10] Speaker 2: of who, what, why, when, how, and then understood that
[1:09:13] Speaker 2: whether it's five dollars or fifty million dollars, there is
[1:09:17] Speaker 2: a pressure and responsibility piece that comes across looking after
[1:09:21] Speaker 2: people's capital, and there is definitely consequences making decisions. So
[1:09:26] Speaker 2: once I started introducing some network or some friends that
[1:09:32] Speaker 2: end up turning into a role four years ago. And
[1:09:35] Speaker 2: the one thing I enjoy just generally about financial markets
[1:09:40] Speaker 2: or financial services is that the concept of your responsibility
[1:09:45] Speaker 2: of preserving someone's dollar and turn it into two that
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: is a huge responsibility that someone passes on to you.
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if it's commercial real estate of wealth management.
[1:09:58] Speaker 2: You deal in the economy trust and once the trust
[1:10:02] Speaker 2: is broken, it's pretty hard to repair. Look at the
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: fentual politics and the government right like, it's really hard.
[1:10:07] Speaker 3: To come back from.
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: And I like to be the guy on a football
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: field that you could trust. I like the responsibility that
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: and I didn't ever want to let anyone down on
[1:10:16] Speaker 2: the football field. And now that I'm involved with Marquette
[1:10:20] Speaker 2: and Charlie Voell and Viela private wealth, I've seen the
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: same characteristics of not letting anyone down with their money.
[1:10:27] Speaker 2: And I certainly didn't do it on the football field,
[1:10:30] Speaker 2: and in my role as BDM, I'm certainly not going
[1:10:34] Speaker 2: to let anyone down investor clients refer as stakeholders, whatever.
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: So I enjoy that while I'm not I'm not investing
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: anyone's money. I don't have the skills or the qualification
[1:10:46] Speaker 2: I enjoy being around people better than me and understanding
[1:10:50] Speaker 2: that is the key ingredient of investing is understanding the people,
[1:10:55] Speaker 2: what are their moral values, the economy of trust and
[1:10:59] Speaker 2: making good sound investment decisions based on skills.
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: My final question to your kubu is and I could
[1:11:06] Speaker 1: talk for hours, but my final question to you in
[1:11:07] Speaker 1: the interest time is if you just think it through
[1:11:12] Speaker 1: and if you could just put it into one category,
[1:11:14] Speaker 1: just one, which milestone in your total career, footy, family, everything,
[1:11:24] Speaker 1: business now that you are most proud of. Is there
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: one thing that just is a standout that nothing gets
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: close to it. It's funny how moments we're celebrating tend
[1:11:36] Speaker 1: to have a few things in common. Good company, something
[1:11:41] Speaker 1: we're toasting, and something that makes it feel like it mattered.
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: Seventy five years of pan Folds Grange, once tasted, never forgotten.
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: Now let's die back in.
[1:11:52] Speaker 2: Personally, it's meeting my wife, the birth of our two children.
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: That is by far and most the biggest thing. Like
[1:12:02] Speaker 2: you can get name the best player in the world
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: or all whatever. You can get those things, but if
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: you get the title of being the best husband and father,
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: like that is that is I don't think it gets
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: any better than that in terms of professional point of view. Look,
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: I don't think it's happened yet. Hopefully it hasn't happened yet.
[1:12:21] Speaker 2: Like I climbed you know, the Rugby league sort of
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: or chart through hard work and aligning myself with good
[1:12:30] Speaker 2: people who are better than me, picking up few things
[1:12:32] Speaker 2: on the way and that to the ingredients and managed
[1:12:36] Speaker 2: to get relatively somewhere close to the top.
[1:12:39] Speaker 3: And in my.
[1:12:40] Speaker 2: Role with Marquette or roll with viol of private wealth,
[1:12:43] Speaker 2: I'm going to apply the same thing.
[1:12:44] Speaker 3: You know.
[1:12:45] Speaker 2: I'm one of sort of circle ten to fifteen people
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: in both businesses, so they're small and boutiquy by size,
[1:12:52] Speaker 2: but I have direct relationships with the managing directors who
[1:12:55] Speaker 2: are the smartest people in their businesses. I can ask
[1:12:58] Speaker 2: any question about asset allocation to Charlie Viola and what
[1:13:03] Speaker 2: the approach is by that. But ultimately, whether it's investing
[1:13:06] Speaker 2: in commercial real estate or doing wealth management and sound
[1:13:10] Speaker 2: investment decisions, it's the fundamentals. I come back to the
[1:13:13] Speaker 2: Craig Bellamy school of hard knocks. Both businesses have the
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: fundamental values that achieve things. Yes, investing in products is
[1:13:23] Speaker 2: all about benchmark and returns and things like that. But
[1:13:26] Speaker 2: underneath that, you know, in terms of wealth management, it's
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: about being a client first idea, about knowing the client
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: personal milestones, being almost like family to them, having the
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: right money in the right buckets, which is relevant with
[1:13:42] Speaker 2: what the budget handed down the other day. Sound investment decisions.
[1:13:45] Speaker 2: That's just marrying people's goal up with what investment decisions
[1:13:48] Speaker 2: they want to do with asset allocation and thing, and
[1:13:50] Speaker 2: then ultimately that be the trusted advisor of that person.
[1:13:53] Speaker 2: So when there is milestones in someone's life, there is
[1:13:56] Speaker 2: a conversation between that and the person looks after them.
[1:14:00] Speaker 2: And it comes to real estate, whether it's fifty million
[1:14:03] Speaker 2: dollars or five hundred million dollars, Toby Lewis and Marquette
[1:14:07] Speaker 2: look through the lens of how to add value to
[1:14:10] Speaker 2: the assets and it's a pretty straightforward. It's like if
[1:14:13] Speaker 2: I was trying to win a game of rugby league,
[1:14:15] Speaker 2: I would look at the key fundamentals of what helped
[1:14:17] Speaker 2: me win. And that's exactly what Toby Lewison Marquette do.
[1:14:21] Speaker 2: So how do you do that? You grow the income,
[1:14:23] Speaker 2: you know, pay more rents, add signage rights at a
[1:14:27] Speaker 2: billboard to an asset or something like that. Once you
[1:14:29] Speaker 2: grow the income, then low the operating costs. Pretty straightforward
[1:14:33] Speaker 2: if you're buying from big institutions. The next part of
[1:14:37] Speaker 2: that is make sure that the billings are functioning and
[1:14:39] Speaker 2: physically look good, sign better tenants to longer leases. Do
[1:14:43] Speaker 2: those four things, you get capital growth and cap great compression.
[1:14:46] Speaker 2: So I'm not a decision maker.
[1:14:49] Speaker 1: And investment You just summarized it in about thirty seconds.
[1:14:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the fundamentals of rugby league that I've learned.
[1:14:54] Speaker 2: And then I've met these people in different industries and
[1:14:58] Speaker 2: they focus on the fundamentals too, And I go on, Mark,
[1:15:02] Speaker 2: you're a great business leader yourself, and I'm pretty certain
[1:15:05] Speaker 2: if I asked you what takes a good business leader,
[1:15:07] Speaker 2: you're going to go the fundamentals of something a person
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: or a business or whatever, not like the top twenty
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: percent that makes the cream on top. You're going to
[1:15:14] Speaker 2: focus on the seventy percent that underpins it. And that's
[1:15:18] Speaker 2: the alignment. I did that in sport. Now with viola,
[1:15:23] Speaker 2: private wealth and market properties, there's similarities that have attracted me.
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: Now I'm not the smartest person in the room when
[1:15:29] Speaker 2: it comes to those firms, But I like the idea
[1:15:32] Speaker 2: that they focus on some key parts and the actual
[1:15:36] Speaker 2: investing part is they're the best in class on it,
[1:15:39] Speaker 2: so that's not their priority as such. Of when it
[1:15:41] Speaker 2: comes to relationships of their clients and investors and prospects.
[1:15:47] Speaker 1: Really well, that sort of brings me to a closing question,
[1:15:51] Speaker 1: what would you say generally speaking to young young kids,
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: particularly if they're just started the unrela they might be
[1:15:59] Speaker 1: in the thirty five of the case, maybe what would
[1:16:02] Speaker 1: you say to them for or the sorts of things
[1:16:06] Speaker 1: they should be doing in their footy career that will
[1:16:08] Speaker 1: equip them for their post footy career, because I mean,
[1:16:13] Speaker 1: they all look to people like you, because a lot
[1:16:15] Speaker 1: of times we look at footballers finish at thirty five,
[1:16:19] Speaker 1: thirty six, maybe a bit older these days, but then
[1:16:22] Speaker 1: that's it. We forget about what they do after that,
[1:16:24] Speaker 1: and some say I want to become a commentator like
[1:16:26] Speaker 1: Maddie Johns or whatever. There's only a certain amount of
[1:16:28] Speaker 1: room for that many people, given the way that broadcast works.
[1:16:32] Speaker 1: What should they be thinking of day one when they
[1:16:34] Speaker 1: start their footy career about that future day.
[1:16:37] Speaker 2: One when you're starting your footy career, think about football,
[1:16:40] Speaker 2: because that is the key part. Like if if you
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: want to be a footy player, a school teacher, a
[1:16:46] Speaker 2: business leader, there's not enough hours in.
[1:16:49] Speaker 3: The day to be great at what you want to do.
[1:16:50] Speaker 2: If you definitely want to be a leader, you've got
[1:16:53] Speaker 2: to apply the work ethic to me. So at those
[1:16:55] Speaker 2: early days, definitely like it's almost like take one step backwards,
[1:17:00] Speaker 2: two steps forwards. Go to good clubs that have good
[1:17:03] Speaker 2: people with good fundamentals and practices in place, and align
[1:17:08] Speaker 2: yourself with people that are smarter and better than you
[1:17:10] Speaker 2: and learn from them.
[1:17:11] Speaker 3: Right.
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: Then once it starts getting you know, you start playing
[1:17:14] Speaker 2: a couple of years, you start maybe look for some
[1:17:17] Speaker 2: mentors and ask for some help from outside or whatever.
[1:17:21] Speaker 2: But then once it gains the sort of halfway through
[1:17:23] Speaker 2: three quarters, that's when you probably need to start looking.
[1:17:25] Speaker 3: At what is next.
[1:17:27] Speaker 2: Right, if you've earned X for a period of time,
[1:17:30] Speaker 2: you've got a mortgage of lifestyle, wife, girlfriend, kids, whatever,
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: and then you haven't prepared for what is next. Your
[1:17:37] Speaker 2: next contract is going to be why, it's going to
[1:17:39] Speaker 2: be significant, Yeah, And I feel that's where sports people
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: fall into the trap, is they get to why, but
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: they've still got all those costs and expenses and they
[1:17:48] Speaker 2: don't have the income that's coming through, and then all
[1:17:51] Speaker 2: of a sudden, other things start playing a part, and
[1:17:53] Speaker 2: it's a slippery slope.
[1:17:54] Speaker 1: Off because it's a diminishing return. Correct as you get older.
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: By definition, there's other people coming through as well.
[1:18:01] Speaker 2: And like sport, you know, maybe it's about some financial
[1:18:04] Speaker 2: advice or some career advice around doing one or two
[1:18:08] Speaker 2: days or something that can potentially narrow the gap between
[1:18:13] Speaker 2: what was X for ten years and what why will
[1:18:16] Speaker 2: be And the closer that gap is, the better it
[1:18:18] Speaker 2: asked for you. But I think you also need to
[1:18:21] Speaker 2: and this is not just saying that because you're in
[1:18:24] Speaker 2: this room, but me arriving at the Roosters Craig Bellamy
[1:18:27] Speaker 2: taught me a lot about football and set me up
[1:18:30] Speaker 2: for the things I achieved arriving at the Roosters. I'm
[1:18:34] Speaker 2: definitely not in the position I am today without the
[1:18:37] Speaker 2: influence of you and the board about what I'm doing
[1:18:40] Speaker 2: now because one of the things that playing at the Roosters,
[1:18:45] Speaker 2: playing good football and being Sydney allowed me to was
[1:18:48] Speaker 2: go to different events represent the Roosters with a badge.
[1:18:51] Speaker 2: But talk about other things outside of rugby league to
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: people who are elite in whatever their industry is, and
[1:18:58] Speaker 2: without that introduction, I think I'm here, and to be fair,
[1:19:01] Speaker 2: I don't think I'm sitting here on the podcast. So
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: you've definitely got to be mindful that there's always people
[1:19:08] Speaker 2: out there that as long as you're willing to work
[1:19:10] Speaker 2: on and do the right thing by those people who
[1:19:12] Speaker 2: are invested in you, that there might be an opportunity
[1:19:15] Speaker 2: down the path.
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: And one thing that's just stuck out for me today
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: that I probably should ask you is just ask you
[1:19:21] Speaker 1: to comment on how important has in your whole koreeran
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: perhapsy in your life, the concept of curiosity been towards
[1:19:30] Speaker 1: your success. Being curious?
[1:19:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think being curious I saw more of it
[1:19:38] Speaker 2: as like yeah that's the title, that's a label, But.
[1:19:41] Speaker 3: How do I get better? Like? How do I get better?
[1:19:43] Speaker 2: So, for example, if Panathal the best teams in the
[1:19:47] Speaker 2: NRL at the moment just look within the NRL to
[1:19:51] Speaker 2: how to get better, they would just stay rugby league better,
[1:19:55] Speaker 2: if that makes sense. So I would suggest that you
[1:19:57] Speaker 2: need to go to other businesses, go to corporate, go
[1:20:01] Speaker 2: to Sydney CBD, go over to America, go to the EPO,
[1:20:04] Speaker 2: go to some form of elite musical theater production or something.
[1:20:10] Speaker 2: You might be able to just add a cup more ingredients.
[1:20:14] Speaker 2: And that comes back to being curious, right, because if
[1:20:16] Speaker 2: we just truly feel like we've made it and we're
[1:20:19] Speaker 2: not open to something that's a different thought, You've got
[1:20:23] Speaker 2: to have a DNA of what you believe work as
[1:20:27] Speaker 2: a business leader. There's not too many people to be
[1:20:29] Speaker 2: able to tell you to think differently than say, maybe
[1:20:32] Speaker 2: ninety percent of what you already know. But you're still
[1:20:34] Speaker 2: curious about ten percent about how to get better. So
[1:20:37] Speaker 2: you'll stick to the ninety percent of your DNA. But
[1:20:39] Speaker 2: you'll also go, oh, you know what, Trent might.
[1:20:42] Speaker 3: Teach me something about business.
[1:20:43] Speaker 2: I might have a coffee with him, and then you
[1:20:45] Speaker 2: might meet someone from another walk of life and you go,
[1:20:48] Speaker 2: you know what, actually picked up something that I could
[1:20:50] Speaker 2: apply to my different business interests. It's exactly the same thing,
[1:20:55] Speaker 2: And curious is just the label you put it. I
[1:20:57] Speaker 2: feel like it's about how do I get better? Where's
[1:20:59] Speaker 2: my improvement come from? And it's not necessarily in the
[1:21:02] Speaker 2: industry that we're already living in.
[1:21:06] Speaker 1: Do you mean you sort of get any don't be
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: too comfortable. Yeah, just explore stuff and it doesn't really matter,
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: but that happens.
[1:21:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think you talk about sport or financial services,
[1:21:18] Speaker 2: like there is things that you know we're already good
[1:21:22] Speaker 2: at in those industries, but there's a thousand other industries
[1:21:25] Speaker 2: that might play a part in your ninety percent that
[1:21:28] Speaker 2: you already know most better than everyone else. There's ten
[1:21:32] Speaker 2: percent that you can still get better at and that
[1:21:34] Speaker 2: might not come from within business, that might come from
[1:21:37] Speaker 2: outside of it. Like not putting words in your mouth,
[1:21:39] Speaker 2: but I think you've probably learned affair through sport and
[1:21:41] Speaker 2: the parallels between sport and business. There is absolutely an
[1:21:44] Speaker 2: intersection that both live and I think we can continue
[1:21:49] Speaker 2: to open up that And if you've got that curious mindset,
[1:21:54] Speaker 2: as long as you don't deter from your DNA, you
[1:21:58] Speaker 2: can add some little on on top for sure.
[1:22:01] Speaker 1: Cooper Chronk. That was fantastic, mate yours.
[1:22:04] Speaker 3: Thank you very much,

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