# Shark Attack Hero Shares the Story of the Terrifying Coogee Rescue

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 25 Jun 2026, 45 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/2baad88d-495b-462e-8380-b47400934126/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Hi guys, there is a GoFundMe for the woman injured in the attack, to help with her recovery and ongoing expenses. If you're able to, please consider donating: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-leah-stewart-victim-of-shark-attack-in-coogee Less than a fortnight after rescuing a woman during the great white shark attack at Coogee Beach, Charlie Verco joins us to reflect on what happened. Charlie shares what he saw, the decisions he made under immense pressure, and why years of surf lifesaving training prepared him for this terrifying moment. We spoke about: • The moment Charlie realised the shark alarm was real • What happened when the great white surfaced just metres away • How he brought Leah safely back to shore on a racing paddleboard • Why managing fear, rather than being fearless, made all the difference • How surf lifesaving and Nippers shaped his response • His views on shark safety, drone surveillance and Australia's approach to managing risk • His message to Leah, whom he has not yet had the chance to speak with Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hey guys, I've just interviewed Charlie Urker. Charlie Verker was
[0:04] Speaker 1: not the self proclaimed but the community proclaimed hero who
[0:07] Speaker 1: saved the life of Leah at Kujibach after she'd been
[0:11] Speaker 1: attacked by a great white shark. It's only very recent
[0:14] Speaker 1: and we've had a lot of sight into great white
[0:15] Speaker 1: sharks since then around the soub Observer in particular. What
[0:20] Speaker 1: I wanted to say to you, if you don't mind,
[0:22] Speaker 1: someone's trying to raise money for Lee because she's going
[0:25] Speaker 1: to have to undertake a lot of medical treatment, and
[0:27] Speaker 1: she has a gofund me page. The go fundme page link.
[0:31] Speaker 1: Details will be in the show notes and that will
[0:34] Speaker 1: also be in the link in my Instagram bio. But like,
[0:38] Speaker 1: if you can help, please do it. And it's a
[0:40] Speaker 1: great episode. This guy is a real AUSI era Charlie Urker.
[0:44] Speaker 1: Welcome to straight Talk.
[0:45] Speaker 2: Mate, Thank you so much for having me.
[0:47] Speaker 1: Hey Firling after you know, now you've had a couple
[0:49] Speaker 1: of weeks to think about all this.
[0:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm feeling good. It has been a busy past
[0:54] Speaker 2: couple of weeks, but I've started to settle back into
[0:56] Speaker 2: my old routine. I like to keep pretty busy normally,
[0:59] Speaker 2: so the extra kind of load on my schedule managing
[1:03] Speaker 2: I guess the extra profile for the last couple of weeks,
[1:05] Speaker 2: and also just the challenge of such a confining situation
[1:08] Speaker 2: has been tricky. But I'm really pleased with how I've
[1:11] Speaker 2: been going. I guess I was just nervous about how
[1:13] Speaker 2: Lear is and the news that's come out recently of
[1:16] Speaker 2: being out of her coma temporarily was pretty exciting for me.
[1:18] Speaker 1: Could you take me through what happened?
[1:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So I was out training for Molokai
[1:22] Speaker 2: Toua Who, the race I have come up in Hawaii.
[1:24] Speaker 1: So what is that?
[1:25] Speaker 2: Just?
[1:26] Speaker 1: What is that for?
[1:26] Speaker 2: Yes? So that's the Insurance Pro and paddle Board World Championships.
[1:29] Speaker 2: So it's a race between Molokai and Awa Who. It's
[1:31] Speaker 2: a fifty two kilometer race that's intended to be downwind
[1:34] Speaker 2: on board on a board, so yeah, using just your arms.
[1:36] Speaker 2: I'm in the unlimited category, which basically means whatever size
[1:39] Speaker 2: board you want, and it's an eighteen foot board with
[1:42] Speaker 2: a rudder and a tiller and you're just trying to
[1:45] Speaker 2: catch big ocean open swells.
[1:46] Speaker 1: And you're up on your knees or you're on your guts.
[1:49] Speaker 2: Most of the time, on my knees, but your legs
[1:51] Speaker 2: get tired, so you on your guts.
[1:52] Speaker 1: You cover a little bit and you're paddling and you're paddling,
[1:54] Speaker 1: and you're paddling for how many kilometers?
[1:55] Speaker 2: Fifty two?
[1:57] Speaker 1: How long does that take?
[1:58] Speaker 2: It's a very conditions dependent race. Yeah, the fastest time
[2:01] Speaker 2: would be low four hours, but if you get conditions
[2:04] Speaker 2: that are poor, it could very easily take six hours. WHOA,
[2:08] Speaker 2: I'll get you see. Do you ever see sharks out there?
[2:11] Speaker 2: I've never seen one during the race. I saw one
[2:14] Speaker 2: when I was training the lead up in Hawaii lasts
[2:17] Speaker 2: or two years ago, just alongside ofwa Who I saw
[2:20] Speaker 2: probably the biggest shark I've ever seen, actually was about
[2:22] Speaker 2: a fort to five meter tiger that was just right
[2:25] Speaker 2: alongside my board, and I remember seeing the head and
[2:27] Speaker 2: the width of the head because the tigers have that
[2:30] Speaker 2: really square jaw, and it was right next to me
[2:33] Speaker 2: and the tail wasn't even at front of my board
[2:34] Speaker 2: and the size of my board and made me go, all,
[2:36] Speaker 2: this thing is a seriously big animal to make it
[2:39] Speaker 2: a quicker definitely, definitely. The funny thing was my dad
[2:42] Speaker 2: was out there for that one as well, on his
[2:43] Speaker 2: ski padling behind me and was shouting out as a
[2:45] Speaker 2: shark up there, Charlie turn Away. And the year before
[2:48] Speaker 2: I'd had a big fright on that exact same paddle
[2:52] Speaker 2: of what turned out to just be a palm from
[2:53] Speaker 2: I thought it was a shark, and I had a
[2:54] Speaker 2: little panic and I was just going, Dad, no, it's
[2:56] Speaker 2: another palm from in the water, and he was right
[2:59] Speaker 2: in that sample. So it definitely made me paddle quickly afterwards.
[3:02] Speaker 1: Okay, so you were training for the Molokai event, which
[3:06] Speaker 1: means you paddle from two Quji or from Qudji to somewhere.
[3:10] Speaker 2: So my plan for that day was to a three
[3:12] Speaker 2: hour paddle because it's such a conditions dependent race. I
[3:14] Speaker 2: just paddle on time. And I always had headed out
[3:18] Speaker 2: to Marubra from Kuji, from Bondai, from Bondi going in
[3:21] Speaker 2: out of the bays, and was on my way back
[3:23] Speaker 2: to Bondi, so you go all just.
[3:25] Speaker 1: Sorry, you kick off a bond I. Let's call it
[3:27] Speaker 1: North Bondo. Yeah, so you go out from North Bonda
[3:30] Speaker 1: and then you just just just go down the coastline.
[3:32] Speaker 2: So when it's pretty flat, conditions I like to cut
[3:35] Speaker 2: the not cut the corners, and just really follow the
[3:37] Speaker 2: coastline to get as much distance as I can follow
[3:40] Speaker 2: the beach. So yeah, I go out and I go
[3:41] Speaker 2: straight across towards the icebergs out around a headland. And
[3:44] Speaker 2: what that also means is when I'm paddling with other
[3:46] Speaker 2: people that are different speeds, if I'm fast, then they
[3:48] Speaker 2: can cut corners to catch up to me. If I'm
[3:51] Speaker 2: trying to do it with a squad of ski paddlers
[3:52] Speaker 2: that are faster than me, if they hug the headland,
[3:55] Speaker 2: I can cut corners to catch up to them. And
[3:57] Speaker 2: it's just a little bit nicer being close to people.
[3:59] Speaker 2: And if something does go wrong, you're not as far
[4:01] Speaker 2: from home if you need to get back.
[4:03] Speaker 1: So on this occasion, you went past Tamma, then Bronti,
[4:10] Speaker 1: then Cloveli, and you ended up a gudgie.
[4:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'd already actually made it all the way
[4:16] Speaker 2: to Aruba, so in and out all the bays all
[4:18] Speaker 2: to be coming back. I was on the way back
[4:19] Speaker 2: through Aji. And when you do those paddles, I'm on
[4:23] Speaker 2: normally the most frightened. When I'm out around the back
[4:25] Speaker 2: of the cliffs, and paddling into Cujie. Of all beaches,
[4:28] Speaker 2: you can paddle so close to the shore without there
[4:30] Speaker 2: being waves to interrupt you. And it's a really busy beach.
[4:32] Speaker 2: There's always lots of people in the water. It's the
[4:34] Speaker 2: part where I normally feel the safe is something like
[4:36] Speaker 2: I'm around civilization again. Yeah, yeah, And so it was
[4:39] Speaker 2: not where I expected it to be such a frightening
[4:42] Speaker 2: event to happen.
[4:43] Speaker 1: So you come into Gujie, what happens.
[4:46] Speaker 2: I was probably eighty meters off shore, just towards the
[4:49] Speaker 2: south end, and had just started going past a couple
[4:51] Speaker 2: of swimmers, and about one hundred meters ahead of me
[4:54] Speaker 2: there was a group of three women and one of
[4:56] Speaker 2: them started screaming shark. I actually found out that she
[5:00] Speaker 2: she felt the shark before she saw it, and said
[5:02] Speaker 2: it felt like a wetsuit material and she thought it
[5:05] Speaker 2: was a dolphin, looked around and saw that it was
[5:08] Speaker 2: a shark, and that was when she started screaming. And
[5:09] Speaker 2: initially you hear people scream shark every now and then,
[5:14] Speaker 2: and most of the time it's not a shark. Sometimes
[5:15] Speaker 2: it'll be kids trying to scare their mates, or just
[5:18] Speaker 2: someone reacted too quickly to a dolphin. But the length
[5:21] Speaker 2: of time and the panic of this made me realize
[5:24] Speaker 2: this wasn't a false alarm, and the people around me,
[5:28] Speaker 2: I would have assumed, just swam straight to the beach
[5:31] Speaker 2: because we went that far from shore, but they became
[5:33] Speaker 2: pretty frightened as well and just wanted to be out
[5:35] Speaker 2: of the water as fasts they could, and the nearest
[5:38] Speaker 2: option for that was me. So at that point I
[5:40] Speaker 2: kind of had to go, guys, you got to swim in.
[5:42] Speaker 2: I can't lay on my board. I've got to go
[5:45] Speaker 2: check these other people, all right, that are actually close.
[5:47] Speaker 1: You actually said that to them.
[5:48] Speaker 2: Ah. I don't remember the exact wording, but there would
[5:51] Speaker 2: have been gestures and words that meant that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[5:54] Speaker 1: Get out of it.
[5:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. It's such hazy details for the stuff that wasn't important.
[5:59] Speaker 2: And I guess in that moment, could you see lard
[6:01] Speaker 2: or anything like that from not at this point. So
[6:03] Speaker 2: the shark actually hadn't grabbed onto Leo at this point.
[6:05] Speaker 1: Right, and the other herd two friends hot footed it
[6:08] Speaker 1: back into the beach. They everyone just kind of had
[6:12] Speaker 1: their heads up out of the water.
[6:13] Speaker 2: Once shark was going. They just didn't want to be swimming.
[6:16] Speaker 2: They wanted to just be out of the water. And
[6:18] Speaker 2: that was one of the things that surprised me is
[6:19] Speaker 2: that I thought if that happened, I'd get me out
[6:22] Speaker 2: of the water as quickly as I can the fasclad
[6:25] Speaker 2: that is, put my head down and start swimming. But
[6:27] Speaker 2: the way that the shark came in, there was a
[6:28] Speaker 2: group of three of them. The girl that initially saw
[6:31] Speaker 2: the shark and the other girl that wasn't Leah were friends,
[6:34] Speaker 2: but they didn't know Lea that just happened to me nearby,
[6:37] Speaker 2: and the shark was kind of in the middle of
[6:40] Speaker 2: that group, so the person that was furthest out couldn't
[6:42] Speaker 2: just swim straight over the shark to get back to shore.
[6:48] Speaker 2: And as I started paddling closer, I could see it underwater.
[6:52] Speaker 2: It was a really clear water. I couldn't see the
[6:54] Speaker 2: details still quite far away, but I could see the
[6:55] Speaker 2: shadow of it going these things pretty solid animal, but
[6:58] Speaker 2: it looked like it was moving almost in inquisitively. It
[7:00] Speaker 2: was really slow and cautious movements, and in my experience
[7:04] Speaker 2: with sharks, I just thought that would mean that it
[7:07] Speaker 2: would figure out that they weren't seals and they weren't
[7:10] Speaker 2: food and just swim off and leave them alone.
[7:12] Speaker 1: Is that what happens to them? Is it in your age?
[7:15] Speaker 2: I like to think that. Yeah. Whenever I've seen a
[7:18] Speaker 2: shark and it's been moving pretty slowly, it's never really
[7:22] Speaker 2: been a problem. There's been times and I've been outsurfing
[7:24] Speaker 2: and it's just been such a nice day where the
[7:28] Speaker 2: sharks are making themselves so seen and there was enough
[7:31] Speaker 2: people in the water and they were small that we
[7:34] Speaker 2: thought there was two cruising the line up and you
[7:35] Speaker 2: could just kind of follow them the whole time and
[7:37] Speaker 2: go these things aren't interested in hunting us right now.
[7:41] Speaker 2: They're just swimming around in their own environment. And I
[7:45] Speaker 2: think that was a false sense of security. I definitely
[7:47] Speaker 2: haven't had enough exposure to sharks to know their behaviors
[7:50] Speaker 2: inside and out. No, Yeah, that was the That was
[7:53] Speaker 2: just the attitude I had that kind of got me
[7:55] Speaker 2: paddling over towards them. I thought that I was going
[7:57] Speaker 2: to go over there, the shark was going to realize
[7:58] Speaker 2: they're not food. I would get them on my board
[8:00] Speaker 2: and there'd be a little bit panic and everyone would
[8:01] Speaker 2: get to the beach just fine.
[8:03] Speaker 1: So when you got there. What happened.
[8:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was about halfway across, I started seeing
[8:07] Speaker 2: Lea getting pushed around and see about fifty meters away.
[8:12] Speaker 2: At this point I couldn't It's all happening underwater, so
[8:15] Speaker 2: you can't really see the exact details of what happened.
[8:17] Speaker 2: But it started off pretty slow. And I've been out
[8:23] Speaker 2: in the water spending a lot of times on the
[8:24] Speaker 2: water training for Raulate this, or doing my training for
[8:26] Speaker 2: Iron Man, or just surfing. The Ocean's my favorite place
[8:29] Speaker 2: to be in the world, and so spending that much
[8:32] Speaker 2: time in the water, you spend a lot of time
[8:34] Speaker 2: thinking about scenarios of sharks, what you do if there
[8:38] Speaker 2: was an incident like this in the water, And I
[8:40] Speaker 2: kind of always thought if I was on a big
[8:42] Speaker 2: board like this, that I'd be able to paddle in
[8:44] Speaker 2: and the size of my board would probably frighten the
[8:46] Speaker 2: shark and scare it off. And so I was paddling
[8:48] Speaker 2: over with that kind of intention, still pretty scared, still
[8:51] Speaker 2: pretty hesitant, and because realistically all they wanted to do
[8:55] Speaker 2: was paddle into the beach as well. And I eventually
[8:59] Speaker 2: saw the shark come out of the water. I saw
[9:00] Speaker 2: the dorsal fin, saw the back, saw the tail, and
[9:03] Speaker 2: I saw the size of it. It felt like I
[9:05] Speaker 2: was looking up at the animal whilst being on top
[9:07] Speaker 2: of a board and just went, this thing is not
[9:09] Speaker 2: going to be scared of me. And that my entire
[9:12] Speaker 2: attitude on the situation changed where I felt pretty helpless
[9:14] Speaker 2: and just went, I don't know what I can do
[9:16] Speaker 2: to help here.
[9:18] Speaker 1: How far away were you at that point.
[9:22] Speaker 2: I want to say about twenty meters.
[9:24] Speaker 1: And what compelled you to keep going.
[9:28] Speaker 2: At that point? I didn't keep going. Actually, it wasn't
[9:31] Speaker 2: a scenario where I paddled in and separated the sharp
[9:35] Speaker 2: from Leah that I think that wouldn't have ended very well.
[9:40] Speaker 2: Just after seeing that the size of this animal, I
[9:42] Speaker 2: was too scared to do that. I'm not afraid of
[9:44] Speaker 2: admitting that. I guess so at that point, when I
[9:47] Speaker 2: felt pretty helpless, I started looking around for another people.
[9:50] Speaker 2: Another person that was on the paddle with me, his
[9:52] Speaker 2: dad was on a jet ski, and I thought the
[9:54] Speaker 2: best option at this point would be a powercraft to
[9:56] Speaker 2: come in and scare this thing off, be able to
[9:57] Speaker 2: grab lea out of the water.
[9:59] Speaker 1: Yeap you had there was a jet ski in your vicinity?
[10:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were on the people they were escorting
[10:06] Speaker 2: on smaller boards than me, so they were a bit
[10:07] Speaker 2: slower and they were too far away to be helped.
[10:10] Speaker 2: So that my next option was just get the attention
[10:12] Speaker 2: of the lifeguards, and so I just started singling to
[10:15] Speaker 2: show a big Code X to try and let them
[10:17] Speaker 2: know that there was stuff going down in the water.
[10:21] Speaker 1: There is a signal to see.
[10:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually, upon reflection and wondering whether I used
[10:25] Speaker 2: the wrong signal because we were meant to chuck two
[10:28] Speaker 2: arms up in the air to evacuate, do the emergency
[10:30] Speaker 2: alarm and evacuate, the Code X is kind of submerged
[10:33] Speaker 2: swim and missing or just basically serious emergency. I think
[10:37] Speaker 2: it still worked with the intended intended effect. But yeah,
[10:43] Speaker 2: it felt like so long before the shark line was
[10:45] Speaker 2: going off, before the beach really knew it was happening.
[10:48] Speaker 2: I have hazy details about how many people around the
[10:51] Speaker 2: situation at that point because I was pretty focused on
[10:53] Speaker 2: the actual attack. But I just wanted to get the
[10:55] Speaker 2: attention of the lifeguards so that they could get clear
[10:57] Speaker 2: the water and then maybe get powercraft out to help us.
[11:00] Speaker 2: The robot ACKI or somewhere that yeah, that was that
[11:02] Speaker 2: was my hope, I guess, yeah, And what happened so
[11:05] Speaker 2: after that it got a lot more violent and the.
[11:09] Speaker 1: Bashing, you mean, the movement of her.
[11:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that's all I can really speak on is
[11:13] Speaker 2: that she was just whether it was pushing, whether it
[11:15] Speaker 2: was getting dragged around. Obviously she was definitely getting bitten
[11:18] Speaker 2: at parts of that. I just don't know the exact
[11:20] Speaker 2: details around that. And that was when the water started
[11:24] Speaker 2: to get a bit dirty with blood.
[11:26] Speaker 1: Was she screaming?
[11:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there was lots of screaming, and its again
[11:30] Speaker 2: it's hazy details like in that moment what the sound
[11:33] Speaker 2: was wasn't important to me, and so I feel like
[11:35] Speaker 2: there also might have been a pits of silence where
[11:37] Speaker 2: even she just didn't really comprehend what was going on. Ah.
[11:42] Speaker 2: But yeah, once the water got quite bloody, she actually
[11:45] Speaker 2: got taken under and I couldn't see her anymore, and
[11:47] Speaker 2: I just went, well, now there's definitely nothing I can
[11:49] Speaker 2: do at my way at this stage, about the same
[11:53] Speaker 2: distance fifteen to twenty meters, just kind of pretty close
[11:56] Speaker 2: fovering between that area of like, all I want to
[11:59] Speaker 2: do is go to the beach. But I felt compelled
[12:03] Speaker 2: and felt like I had a bit of responsibility of
[12:05] Speaker 2: if I go into the beach the only person on
[12:08] Speaker 2: a board out here, she's on her own. There's nothing
[12:11] Speaker 2: anyone can do. And that's what kept me, kept me there,
[12:14] Speaker 2: and luckily she popped up and the shark had let
[12:16] Speaker 2: her go at that point.
[12:17] Speaker 1: Why do you think the sharks let her go? I mean,
[12:20] Speaker 1: I know it's apeculator, but what is it?
[12:22] Speaker 2: So my initial reflection, and I think what probably guided
[12:26] Speaker 2: my decision making at the time was the opinion that
[12:29] Speaker 2: had figured out that she wasn't a seal right and
[12:32] Speaker 2: moved on. However, in since the incident, I've had conversations
[12:37] Speaker 2: with the shark experts trying to essentially log the data
[12:39] Speaker 2: of the shark attack that talked about how great whites
[12:43] Speaker 2: it's really typical for them to if you use a
[12:45] Speaker 2: ceiling as an example, going and bite off the fins
[12:47] Speaker 2: so they're immobile and then just inflict as much damage
[12:50] Speaker 2: as possible so that they bleed out and then can
[12:52] Speaker 2: come in with the least amount of risk to them,
[12:55] Speaker 2: because if a shark injures its eyes or its nose,
[12:57] Speaker 2: or its gills or and of its senses, it's it's
[13:00] Speaker 2: not going to survive. It's dependent on those. So it's
[13:04] Speaker 2: common for it to swim away and then come back
[13:05] Speaker 2: once it's safe for them to actually eat.
[13:08] Speaker 1: Who says, once it's demobilize you, it comes back and
[13:11] Speaker 1: just like fees on your carcass.
[13:14] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that they're clever basically, is what I what
[13:17] Speaker 2: I learned from that. And yeah, after we were all
[13:22] Speaker 2: on the beach and my daddy kind of figured out
[13:24] Speaker 2: that we were all safe, he went back out on
[13:28] Speaker 2: the jet ski to try and find the shark, and
[13:31] Speaker 2: he said he saw it in the water, and once
[13:33] Speaker 2: the sharks saw the jet ski, it just did a
[13:35] Speaker 2: nine degree turn, came up and looked at it because
[13:37] Speaker 2: it was looking for its its food.
[13:39] Speaker 1: Wow, looking for her. Believe that's that's where it just
[13:44] Speaker 1: takes it.
[13:45] Speaker 2: But put it this way, it wasn't scared of a
[13:46] Speaker 2: jet ski.
[13:47] Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, Wow, the jest skis aren't small their and
[13:50] Speaker 1: their bulky too and noisy and yeah, lots of vibrations
[13:54] Speaker 1: coming from a jet ski. So did you how when
[13:58] Speaker 1: you saw the shark let go? We went over to her.
[14:01] Speaker 1: There was obviously blood and color in the water. What
[14:04] Speaker 1: did you do?
[14:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, that was when I paddled over closer to her,
[14:07] Speaker 2: and she was looseid enough to respond to instructions and
[14:12] Speaker 2: say that's cool, that kind of thing. And I got
[14:15] Speaker 2: her to kind of swim a couple of meters towards
[14:18] Speaker 2: me whilst I was paddling towards her, because I didn't
[14:20] Speaker 2: want to paddle into the middle of this pool of
[14:22] Speaker 2: blood where I couldn't see what was around me and
[14:24] Speaker 2: see if the shark was still there, if it was
[14:26] Speaker 2: going to come at me. Maybe that if I could
[14:28] Speaker 2: see where the shark was and if it decided to
[14:29] Speaker 2: come at the board, I could put myself the board
[14:31] Speaker 2: between myself and the shark. Yeah, And I got her
[14:35] Speaker 2: to grab onto the nose of my board and just
[14:37] Speaker 2: started paddling backwards to the beach because I'm not on
[14:39] Speaker 2: a rescue craft. I'm want a really long slender board,
[14:41] Speaker 2: has a drink bottle cage in front of me, it's
[14:43] Speaker 2: got a tiller. It takes me thirty seconds to turn
[14:45] Speaker 2: this thing around with just me. So I thought, with
[14:48] Speaker 2: being this close to the beach, with the fast way
[14:50] Speaker 2: would just be to drag go back to the shore.
[14:52] Speaker 2: And you didn't get.
[14:55] Speaker 1: Up on the board, you just let it. You said,
[14:57] Speaker 1: hold onto the nose of the boy.
[14:58] Speaker 2: I just said, hold on the nose that was the
[15:00] Speaker 2: closest part to her at that point, and just started
[15:02] Speaker 2: dragging her backwards. And she wasn't strong enough to hold
[15:03] Speaker 2: on her nose, so I had to paddle back up
[15:05] Speaker 2: to her again and get it to hold onto the
[15:06] Speaker 2: drink bottle cage. It's just something easy to grip onto,
[15:09] Speaker 2: and that worked for a little while, but she again
[15:11] Speaker 2: became too weak toldal to that, so I ended up
[15:13] Speaker 2: having to paddle up to her and just grab her
[15:14] Speaker 2: by the arm and just hold her next to me
[15:16] Speaker 2: while I was paddling back with one arm. So yeah,
[15:19] Speaker 2: that was a pretty flawn ordeal. She actually ended up
[15:22] Speaker 2: losing conscious before we hit the beach. For consciousness before
[15:25] Speaker 2: we hit the beach, and so I was realistically holding
[15:28] Speaker 2: her head out of the water and just going up.
[15:30] Speaker 2: Just got to get it to the sand and then
[15:32] Speaker 2: hopefully there'll be people there to help.
[15:34] Speaker 1: At what point did the life service come out and
[15:37] Speaker 1: did they come out and give your assistance.
[15:39] Speaker 2: I mean, it's impossible for me to know the timeline.
[15:42] Speaker 2: I never felt when I was in the water. Her
[15:44] Speaker 2: feeling of where is everyone? Why am I the only
[15:47] Speaker 2: one here? I was more thinking it's stupid than I'm here.
[15:54] Speaker 2: I should be on the beach safe. However, yeah, I
[15:58] Speaker 2: was just at that point so focused on her to
[16:00] Speaker 2: the beach. There was two folks in my mind, which
[16:01] Speaker 2: is where is a shark? And just get her to
[16:03] Speaker 2: the beach. I was never really thinking about anyone else
[16:05] Speaker 2: being there. A lifeguard did come up to move the
[16:08] Speaker 2: board for the last few strokes. I don't know how
[16:10] Speaker 2: far we were, but it was it felt at the
[16:12] Speaker 2: last little bit right fall shore. And that was great
[16:15] Speaker 2: because as soon as I could stand, he was there
[16:17] Speaker 2: to help pick up her legs and I carried a
[16:19] Speaker 2: torso and we just got it up to dry sand
[16:21] Speaker 2: where there was heaps of people ready to help her.
[16:24] Speaker 1: Did Anty say, do you think to yourself? Maybe it
[16:26] Speaker 1: didn't un't but I could be mixed. I mean, obviously
[16:31] Speaker 1: you think your life is in danger, but did you
[16:33] Speaker 1: really deep down think this bloody shark you could come
[16:37] Speaker 1: and get me mixed and we'd both gone.
[16:39] Speaker 2: Was once I saw the size of the shark, I
[16:43] Speaker 2: realized that at any point where I couldn't see the shark,
[16:46] Speaker 2: it could be coming at me. And from behind, and yeah,
[16:50] Speaker 2: it wasn't a I could be next. I was pretty
[16:53] Speaker 2: aware that I wasn't the one in the most danger
[16:55] Speaker 2: in this moment. At the same time, I was terrified
[17:00] Speaker 2: for a pretty rational reason. I reckon is that there
[17:03] Speaker 2: was a hungry, really powerful, large animal in the water.
[17:08] Speaker 2: It definitely wasn't the exact phrase I was next, But
[17:11] Speaker 2: all of my actions were a balance between wanting to
[17:14] Speaker 2: do what I can to help and also being really
[17:16] Speaker 2: scared for my own safety.
[17:18] Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know, most people never get confronted with
[17:21] Speaker 1: this at all, but self preservation is as strong as instinct.
[17:25] Speaker 1: I've got to preserve my life, but at the same time,
[17:29] Speaker 1: I've got to do the right thing by my community,
[17:32] Speaker 1: by the person who's just been bitten by the shark.
[17:36] Speaker 1: Sort of, those two things are sort of oppositely, the
[17:40] Speaker 1: sit in opposite directions. Did you ever, at any stage
[17:45] Speaker 1: feel overwhelmingly one way or the.
[17:48] Speaker 2: Other when you ask that question. I kind of think
[17:50] Speaker 2: of what my three options were in that scenario, and
[17:54] Speaker 2: the first one was go to the beach, which would
[17:57] Speaker 2: have been overwhelmingly driven by self preservation, yeah, survival. The
[18:01] Speaker 2: second one was going there and just do what I
[18:04] Speaker 2: can to get this shark to let go of Leah,
[18:06] Speaker 2: and that would have been very much do what I
[18:08] Speaker 2: can to help my community and no consideration for my
[18:12] Speaker 2: own safety. And I think the fact that I was
[18:15] Speaker 2: kind of fighting between those options and then doing what
[18:18] Speaker 2: I could whilst the shark was holding on to a
[18:21] Speaker 2: really represents there was always a conflict. It was a
[18:25] Speaker 2: really tight balance, and I was I'm grateful of the
[18:27] Speaker 2: fact that I was able to stay in the water,
[18:30] Speaker 2: and it meant that once I could weigh the risks
[18:33] Speaker 2: enough and think, Okay, the shark's not actively a hold
[18:37] Speaker 2: of Leah, I have the best chance of actually being
[18:40] Speaker 2: able to do something to help here. Because I'm pretty
[18:46] Speaker 2: rationally driven, and so part of the ways that I've
[18:50] Speaker 2: gotten through this is being pleased with my decisions, because
[18:55] Speaker 2: the one of the tough things is what else could
[18:56] Speaker 2: I have done to help? Could I have made a
[18:59] Speaker 2: difference if I paddle in there whilst it was whilst
[19:01] Speaker 2: that held her? And my belief is that all that
[19:04] Speaker 2: would have done is further in danger of myself with
[19:09] Speaker 2: a pretty limited likelihood that I actually would have helped her,
[19:12] Speaker 2: affected her, Yeah, helped her? So yeah, I think it
[19:17] Speaker 2: was just a real a conflict within me that it
[19:21] Speaker 2: was such a fine balance that kept me in the water.
[19:24] Speaker 2: And I think I owe that to just so many
[19:27] Speaker 2: different things that have happened into my life that factor
[19:29] Speaker 2: into the way I make decisions.
[19:30] Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about that because I
[19:33] Speaker 1: know you're a member of Surf Club and you were
[19:35] Speaker 1: Were you a nipper like a younger health Bond okay,
[19:40] Speaker 1: so and breen Cat, Yeah, I remember those. My my
[19:42] Speaker 1: own kids did that. And you know those Surf Club
[19:47] Speaker 1: members who look after the kids teach you matter way
[19:50] Speaker 1: to get on a board? Did you mat to swim out?
[19:54] Speaker 1: You know, just water safety generally speaking, but you know
[19:57] Speaker 1: they don't usually don't talk about sharks, but they took
[20:00] Speaker 1: about there's a sense of obligation that you are serving
[20:05] Speaker 1: the communities, particularly once you get to a certain level,
[20:07] Speaker 1: then you start doing patrols, and do you reflect with
[20:11] Speaker 1: gratitude on the fact that you had exposure to those
[20:14] Speaker 1: things and therefore you were in a position to at
[20:17] Speaker 1: least feel like I should try to help my community
[20:20] Speaker 1: because a lot of people who have never done that.
[20:24] Speaker 1: Let's say you're not a surfer, not a board rider,
[20:26] Speaker 1: You're not a surf club person. You're just someone happened
[20:29] Speaker 1: to be there on the at the time, not experience
[20:32] Speaker 1: of the water. Most people probably would have just hot
[20:34] Speaker 1: put it back to the beach, and unfortunately, you know,
[20:37] Speaker 1: she may not have made it. Do you feel like
[20:41] Speaker 1: there's some gratitude and therefore as a real place in
[20:45] Speaker 1: Australia for Australians to parents perhaps to encourage your kids
[20:50] Speaker 1: to learn this stuff at surf club level.
[20:52] Speaker 2: Absolutely, definitely. I think I've been quoted many times already
[20:55] Speaker 2: that I've never been more grateful to be a part
[20:58] Speaker 2: of the Surf five seven community. When you come through
[21:00] Speaker 2: the Nippers Journey, the first lesson, the first goal of
[21:04] Speaker 2: that program is to teach you to have safety for
[21:07] Speaker 2: yourself in the water so that you can navigate surf
[21:10] Speaker 2: identify risks and if you're not a risk, then that's
[21:15] Speaker 2: not gonna put other people in dags' trying to help you,
[21:17] Speaker 2: and so you and you also can't help anyone else
[21:20] Speaker 2: until you are confident enough in the water to look
[21:23] Speaker 2: after yourself. Help yourself first before help yourself first. That's
[21:27] Speaker 2: a pretty common practice you taught in a lot of
[21:31] Speaker 2: a lot of first responder like dangerous jobs. Essentially is
[21:35] Speaker 2: that if you're you can't help anyone else unless you
[21:38] Speaker 2: are in a state to do so. And that really
[21:45] Speaker 2: fostered my passion for the ocean as well. It's such
[21:48] Speaker 2: an important part of my life. I love being in
[21:49] Speaker 2: the water. I love the challenge of conditions that are
[21:53] Speaker 2: never the same. It's what's led me into my sport,
[21:58] Speaker 2: it's what's created my social network, and I also think
[22:02] Speaker 2: shaped a lot of my personality. But as you progress
[22:05] Speaker 2: through the surf Club and have those skills and they're
[22:07] Speaker 2: confident in your ability to handle the dangers of the water,
[22:12] Speaker 2: that's when they really start to confront you with situations
[22:15] Speaker 2: where you're forced to actually think about what can I
[22:18] Speaker 2: do in a situation to help others when they most
[22:21] Speaker 2: need help. And I think just the fact that they
[22:24] Speaker 2: get you thinking about that in your head when you're young,
[22:27] Speaker 2: So you do the SCS I think when you're about
[22:29] Speaker 2: thirteen years old, and then you do your bronze when
[22:31] Speaker 2: you're sixteen or seventeen somewhere around that, and again can
[22:37] Speaker 2: break that up into two scenarios. You're learning in very
[22:39] Speaker 2: important skills like first aid, like CPR, like how to
[22:42] Speaker 2: rescue a person with a board or a tube.
[22:45] Speaker 1: But it's not just that.
[22:46] Speaker 2: It's getting you to spend your time thinking about if
[22:49] Speaker 2: there is a really dangerous scenario going on, what would
[22:54] Speaker 2: you do to actually help that? And I think introducing
[22:58] Speaker 2: that thought process such a young age allows you to
[23:03] Speaker 2: put that into other aspects of your life. I think
[23:05] Speaker 2: I mentioned before just spending so much time in the water,
[23:09] Speaker 2: you spend a lot of time scared of what's going
[23:11] Speaker 2: to happen to you, if there's a shark going on,
[23:13] Speaker 2: and planning for that and mitigating the risk of that.
[23:15] Speaker 2: But then beyond that, you go, okay, I saw a
[23:19] Speaker 2: video of a shark attack that happened recently in to
[23:23] Speaker 2: just stay on the coast, and okay, if I was
[23:25] Speaker 2: near that situation, what would I do? And I think
[23:29] Speaker 2: that's the only way you can kind of prepare for
[23:31] Speaker 2: a situation like that. The more thought that you have
[23:36] Speaker 2: about taking action, the more likely you are to actually
[23:42] Speaker 2: have that thought come across your mind when the adrenaline
[23:45] Speaker 2: hits you in such an intense situation. And that's the
[23:47] Speaker 2: way I like to think about it. It's never going
[23:49] Speaker 2: to be you're in that scenario, you know exactly what
[23:53] Speaker 2: to do and then you spring straight into action. It's
[23:57] Speaker 2: just having the enough time thinking about what it takes
[24:02] Speaker 2: to help someone that actually keeps you there and doesn't
[24:07] Speaker 2: just make you focus on getting yourself to the beach.
[24:09] Speaker 2: And in the shark example.
[24:11] Speaker 1: I mean, you're an athlete in the sea and by
[24:17] Speaker 1: definition you know paddling long distances. You have to learn
[24:21] Speaker 1: how to get your heart rate down or keep your
[24:24] Speaker 1: heart rate at a certain level, sort of nearly have
[24:27] Speaker 1: to work out it be meditating on the water. Did
[24:31] Speaker 1: in any stage did you have to save yourself Charlie
[24:34] Speaker 1: that just breathe, Just try and bring it down a
[24:38] Speaker 1: little bit.
[24:39] Speaker 2: So in all the time between when shark was first
[24:43] Speaker 2: yelled and getting it onto the beach, No, And that's
[24:46] Speaker 2: where I think I have to come back to that
[24:48] Speaker 2: you can only prepare yourself to make decisions at that
[24:51] Speaker 2: moment by having spent enough time thinking about it, because
[24:53] Speaker 2: you don't. I like to think I was rational because
[24:59] Speaker 2: I trained myself to be, but you're not. I definitely
[25:02] Speaker 2: didn't think you've got to breathe. You've got to, yeah,
[25:06] Speaker 2: try and bring your heart rate down so you can
[25:07] Speaker 2: make good decisions. That was almost instinctive by having to
[25:11] Speaker 2: do that so many times through other stressful situations, I'll
[25:14] Speaker 2: be it slightly less stressful being sport. Yeah, But for example,
[25:19] Speaker 2: the surf is another great example. I grew up being
[25:21] Speaker 2: terrified a big surf, and I think managing that fear
[25:25] Speaker 2: really helped it. But at the same time, once I
[25:29] Speaker 2: got to the beach and saw that there were experts
[25:31] Speaker 2: there that could provide more help than I could and
[25:33] Speaker 2: felt comfortable stepping away, I did instantaneously or almost inside.
[25:38] Speaker 2: We wanted to check my dad was so safe. Check
[25:40] Speaker 2: the rest of the water. He did, Yeah, because Dad
[25:42] Speaker 2: was paddling on a ski about a couple hudred meters
[25:44] Speaker 2: ahead of me, ahead of you, yep, yeah. I wanted
[25:46] Speaker 2: to make sure he was out of the water, checked
[25:47] Speaker 2: the other people I was paddling with out of the water,
[25:49] Speaker 2: and then that was when I took a second, took
[25:52] Speaker 2: a breath, and just went, Okay, how do I actually
[25:55] Speaker 2: feel right now? I was aware that this was a
[25:59] Speaker 2: pretty traumatic in I wanted to see if I was
[26:01] Speaker 2: trump like experiencing trauma. And it didn't take long because
[26:06] Speaker 2: it's I've been a lot of times pretating city pretty
[26:09] Speaker 2: self analytical and reflective and I was pretty happy with
[26:12] Speaker 2: my state of mind. Obviously I was pumped up on adrenaline,
[26:15] Speaker 2: but I was still thinking rationally. I wasn't again, through
[26:19] Speaker 2: lack of another word, traumatized by the situation. It was
[26:23] Speaker 2: something really full on that happened, and that was that
[26:27] Speaker 2: was it. I have no control over anything beyond that.
[26:29] Speaker 1: When you got when you got to the beach, yep,
[26:32] Speaker 1: what did you think? Like you look? Was it blood coming?
[26:35] Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I have no sense of
[26:37] Speaker 1: any of this because everything was all covered in and
[26:38] Speaker 1: she was protected from the media. You obviously saw it.
[26:42] Speaker 1: Did you go straight to her? What happened? Would you
[26:44] Speaker 1: just come out and sort of you have to sort
[26:46] Speaker 1: of dust the shock off yourself? What happened?
[26:49] Speaker 2: Then? So picked her up out of the water, carried
[26:51] Speaker 2: up the beach. There was already heaps of people ready
[26:53] Speaker 2: go on the beach, and I've got a lot of
[26:54] Speaker 2: gratitude to all the people. There was the council lifeguards,
[26:58] Speaker 2: there were it was a really busy day, could you
[27:00] Speaker 2: so there was police on stand by it, there was
[27:02] Speaker 2: training medical staff that just happened to be down there,
[27:03] Speaker 2: as well as volunteer lifeguard as well, and they were
[27:06] Speaker 2: all had had the time while I was getting up
[27:09] Speaker 2: to the beach to prepare themselves on the exact planet
[27:11] Speaker 2: what to do. So when we put it on the ground,
[27:13] Speaker 2: I just put pressure on. I want to kind of
[27:16] Speaker 2: keep her injury, the details of our injuries a bit private,
[27:18] Speaker 2: but put pressure on one of the main injuries to
[27:21] Speaker 2: prevent the bleeding a little bit while they got the
[27:22] Speaker 2: torn keon. They did that all super quickly, and I
[27:25] Speaker 2: just looked around me and when these guys have so
[27:27] Speaker 2: much control of this situation versus me, I'm going to
[27:30] Speaker 2: step back. And that was when I felt pretty comfortable
[27:33] Speaker 2: in terms of the like how I felt when I
[27:41] Speaker 2: put her on the ground, I wasn't very optimistic, and
[27:47] Speaker 2: I guess that came from the amount of blood that
[27:50] Speaker 2: I saw in the water versus how much I saw
[27:54] Speaker 2: when I put her down. I weren't going into more
[27:57] Speaker 2: detail than that, into any more detail than that, but
[28:00] Speaker 2: that was what made it so impressive that when I
[28:02] Speaker 2: took I'd looked around, where's my dad, where's my friends?
[28:06] Speaker 2: I took a breath to make sure I was all right,
[28:08] Speaker 2: and went over and checked the swimmers. The two girls
[28:11] Speaker 2: were right next to Leah and just gave them a hug.
[28:14] Speaker 2: They were quite emotional. Checked they were okay. That was
[28:17] Speaker 2: when I went back and put up the privacy screen
[28:20] Speaker 2: that meant you couldn't see. Yeah, and they had already
[28:23] Speaker 2: gotten her back breathing, and so that's good. It was.
[28:27] Speaker 2: It was so impressive what having training in those in
[28:32] Speaker 2: the medical the medical training they had, what they were
[28:34] Speaker 2: able to do to bring her back that quickly. And yeah,
[28:39] Speaker 2: that's why in the since the since the incident, I've
[28:45] Speaker 2: really gotten a lot of joy out of using my
[28:47] Speaker 2: current profile to advocate for surf life saving one in
[28:53] Speaker 2: the training that is allowed.
[28:54] Speaker 1: It's critical for people who Yeah, it's so important to keep.
[28:57] Speaker 2: Her alive right in the first in the early stages.
[29:01] Speaker 1: And they need money too. Yeah, we've got to raise
[29:03] Speaker 1: money for them. Somehow, we've got to get money to them.
[29:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's money. But also just the best benefit of
[29:08] Speaker 2: it is having members that are training this that if
[29:11] Speaker 2: this hadn't happened at a Kulji beach where there was
[29:13] Speaker 2: heaps of people around, then that would have been a
[29:16] Speaker 2: very different scenario. But if you have more people that
[29:18] Speaker 2: are trained and that can't help, it means that there's
[29:20] Speaker 2: gonna be more instances where there are people where with
[29:22] Speaker 2: the training to help. And the second one was when
[29:25] Speaker 2: the hospital, someone from the hospital reached out to me
[29:27] Speaker 2: and asked if I could put out a call to
[29:29] Speaker 2: donate blood. And that was the biggest thing for me
[29:34] Speaker 2: as well. Beyond that is that I had such little
[29:36] Speaker 2: optimism purely because of the amount of blood I thought
[29:39] Speaker 2: she had lost. That it was the blood donations that
[29:42] Speaker 2: saved her as well. And so yeah, those were the
[29:47] Speaker 2: two thick biggest things that have happened.
[29:48] Speaker 1: Given your experience on that weekend, but given your experience
[29:53] Speaker 1: generally about in terms of what you do as support
[29:56] Speaker 1: would you say to Australians today, I would you be
[30:00] Speaker 1: kill joy? But about swimming from one end to the
[30:05] Speaker 1: other end because recently, of course, we had the guy
[30:07] Speaker 1: went missing at Alba whose local used to swim across
[30:12] Speaker 1: back and forth every day or every week at least
[30:15] Speaker 1: since the event you and I and now sitting here,
[30:16] Speaker 1: we've had a couple of shark sightings of a great
[30:18] Speaker 1: white and BONDI. We've had a tax in the harbor
[30:22] Speaker 1: around Baclu's area. What do you say to people who
[30:26] Speaker 1: are not used to this sort of stuff you would
[30:28] Speaker 1: you say, just what bit of advice would.
[30:30] Speaker 2: You give them? Yeah, I definitely don't want to be
[30:33] Speaker 2: a kill joy because the ocean has brought me so
[30:35] Speaker 2: much joy and I don't think steering away from it
[30:38] Speaker 2: is the right option. Is that it can be such
[30:41] Speaker 2: a wonderful place. I do have a lot of admiration
[30:45] Speaker 2: for the people that do go out and swim laps
[30:48] Speaker 2: way out to see on their own, because personally, I
[30:51] Speaker 2: would be way too scared to do that. My advice
[30:54] Speaker 2: around doing that is try and do it at busy
[30:56] Speaker 2: beaches where there's people around that can set off shark alarms,
[30:59] Speaker 2: or there's acraft in the order can help, and do
[31:01] Speaker 2: it in a group. But whatever percentage of people that
[31:06] Speaker 2: do do that haven't had an incident of the shark.
[31:08] Speaker 2: So there's definitely you can play the statistics there. If
[31:11] Speaker 2: you go back to my way of thinking. My philosophy
[31:14] Speaker 2: on it is mitigate risk.
[31:17] Speaker 1: So you admittigate risk mitigator generally.
[31:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I'm a pretty cautious person because people tell
[31:23] Speaker 2: you that you're like, call fearless, like you're a hero,
[31:26] Speaker 2: and they say, usually we associate heroism with fearlessness, and
[31:31] Speaker 2: sometimes fearlessness borders on recklessness. Would you say your ability
[31:37] Speaker 2: to save this person's life was as a result of
[31:43] Speaker 2: managing your fear and not being fearless. Absolutely. I think
[31:48] Speaker 2: that's where it gets uncompetent awkward when the word hero
[31:51] Speaker 2: is thrown around, because I do associate that with more
[31:55] Speaker 2: thoughtless heroism, whereas I was no sleep oven by fear
[32:01] Speaker 2: in that moment. And when I say that, I'm grateful
[32:04] Speaker 2: for all the factors in my life that have led
[32:06] Speaker 2: to me to staying in the water, that has been
[32:09] Speaker 2: managing fear. I've been scared of everything. I was a
[32:12] Speaker 2: very cautious kid, still am very cautious, and so many
[32:17] Speaker 2: things I love to do really scare me. So when
[32:20] Speaker 2: I was doing training in swimming in the ocean for
[32:23] Speaker 2: my surf fine man, I was scared of sharks, so
[32:25] Speaker 2: I only like to do it around other people. I
[32:29] Speaker 2: raced in surf, and not even big surf used to
[32:32] Speaker 2: terrify me. Small surf would scare me, and I would
[32:34] Speaker 2: see all my mates out there having fun and really
[32:36] Speaker 2: really want to be out there, but just be too scared.
[32:39] Speaker 2: And over many years learning to manage that fear. And
[32:43] Speaker 2: it's not about making it not scary anymore. It's learning
[32:45] Speaker 2: how to deal with that and weigh the risks. And
[32:48] Speaker 2: I got to the I knew that my skill was
[32:50] Speaker 2: an issue. It was purely the fear, and if I
[32:53] Speaker 2: could learn how to negotiate that, then I could conquer
[32:57] Speaker 2: it in the sense. And that's what led me to
[33:00] Speaker 2: loving the ocean. I'm definitely not a big wave guy,
[33:03] Speaker 2: but some of my best results in surf iron Man
[33:05] Speaker 2: have been in big surf, and it definitely comes back
[33:09] Speaker 2: to that day. Is that I was terrified in the water,
[33:13] Speaker 2: and that's what stopped me from paddling straight in and
[33:16] Speaker 2: being reckless. That's the word I think you used. And however,
[33:21] Speaker 2: it was that management of fear that kept me there.
[33:24] Speaker 1: People are more scared now about going to the beach.
[33:29] Speaker 1: What would you say to them about that lake apart
[33:32] Speaker 1: from swimming in a flag area on a busy day
[33:36] Speaker 1: at a busy beach where there's a life saving What
[33:38] Speaker 1: would you say Tom about their fear?
[33:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it comes back to that reducing the
[33:44] Speaker 2: risk you're never My philosophy is that life is always
[33:49] Speaker 2: going to have challenges and it's learning how to overcome
[33:51] Speaker 2: those challenges. One of those could be just managing fears.
[33:54] Speaker 2: There's always going to be fears. There's all those numbers
[33:57] Speaker 2: out there about you're more likely to in yourself driving
[34:01] Speaker 2: to the beach than you are to get attacked by
[34:03] Speaker 2: the shark. And so I think you've definitely got to
[34:08] Speaker 2: challenge yourself if you have those fears, but be aware
[34:11] Speaker 2: of the risks. So if you can't swim and you
[34:14] Speaker 2: want to go down to the beach and you're scared
[34:16] Speaker 2: of sharks and scared of swimming, and you're thinking, oh,
[34:19] Speaker 2: I should just go out and do it, don't worry
[34:21] Speaker 2: to make me scared. No, you should learn to swim first, Yeah,
[34:23] Speaker 2: and then you should consider it. And when I'm weighing risks,
[34:27] Speaker 2: I last night I had to cancel a paddle that
[34:30] Speaker 2: I was supposed to do from Bondai towards Camp Cove,
[34:32] Speaker 2: which is all around the back of the cliffs. So
[34:34] Speaker 2: something goes wrong, there's no at night. Yeah it was
[34:38] Speaker 2: at some like close to sun's dark. Yeah, it wasn't
[34:41] Speaker 2: dark yet. But the idea was that if something goes wrong,
[34:43] Speaker 2: I can't just paddle into the beach and people would
[34:47] Speaker 2: be searching for me in the duck and we just
[34:50] Speaker 2: had a couple of things go wrong in a row.
[34:52] Speaker 2: We were under time pressure and we just went, nuh,
[34:53] Speaker 2: We're going to call it like there's it's just not
[34:55] Speaker 2: worth it.
[34:56] Speaker 1: At this point, that's where I live and I can
[34:57] Speaker 1: deal with. It's pretty scary around there around the cliffs.
[35:00] Speaker 2: I've had one incident where I bit off more than
[35:03] Speaker 2: I could chew on a paddle and was limping my
[35:05] Speaker 2: way home after the sun had set. Around the back
[35:08] Speaker 2: of the cliff's there in huge swell and that wasn't
[35:11] Speaker 2: a fun experience. See where you come into Camp caver
[35:13] Speaker 2: A Nielson Park Camp Cove. So that particular incident was
[35:17] Speaker 2: my first year training for the race, was my first
[35:19] Speaker 2: time back swimming since off season, and so I thought
[35:22] Speaker 2: I was fitter than I was, and I ended up
[35:24] Speaker 2: doing a paddle from Malabar into Camp Cove. So it's
[35:26] Speaker 2: about twenty kilometers well, and the whole last ten kilometers
[35:28] Speaker 2: from Bondi where there's no points you can get out
[35:30] Speaker 2: until you finish.
[35:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, because they've got the gap. They got the cliff there.
[35:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all massive cliffs again again, I said, a
[35:35] Speaker 2: huge swell, So yeah, I want to miss mess around
[35:37] Speaker 2: with it. But there was also a big current going
[35:39] Speaker 2: against me, So it just ended up taking me half
[35:41] Speaker 2: an hour forty five minutes, and I'd planned And that
[35:45] Speaker 2: was where it came back to that you described a
[35:46] Speaker 2: meditative state is that you can learn to train your
[35:49] Speaker 2: thoughts a little bit, and I was, I've had pretty
[35:52] Speaker 2: awful thoughts out there, but you just learned to kind
[35:54] Speaker 2: of go, Okay, that thought can't hurt me. You just
[35:57] Speaker 2: got to let it go. I'm going to get back.
[35:59] Speaker 2: I just got to be patient and I'm just going
[36:01] Speaker 2: to be scared for the whole time I'm paddling.
[36:02] Speaker 1: Back and accept it exactly.
[36:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[36:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, because fear is something If you accept it, it's
[36:08] Speaker 1: not that bad. It's when you're fighting against it. I mean,
[36:11] Speaker 1: you know, I'm scared, But what am I going to
[36:13] Speaker 1: do about it? Is that what you're saying, absolutely, Are
[36:16] Speaker 1: you a surfer? I used to be. I can't even
[36:18] Speaker 1: because that had a back or ros, but I used
[36:20] Speaker 1: to ride a board. Yeah.
[36:21] Speaker 2: I think a good analogy for that is when you're
[36:23] Speaker 2: surfing on a small day and you get held down
[36:27] Speaker 2: by a wave and you try to fight it and
[36:28] Speaker 2: come back up. Those are sometimes the most scary experiences
[36:31] Speaker 2: because when you try and fight it and then don't
[36:33] Speaker 2: get back up for a breath straight away, Suddenly you've
[36:36] Speaker 2: used all your oxygen and then you go, Okay, I've
[36:37] Speaker 2: run out of breath. What am I going to do?
[36:39] Speaker 2: Whereas when you go out in the big days and
[36:40] Speaker 2: you're prepared to face a long hold down and you
[36:43] Speaker 2: just accept that you're going to get washed around and
[36:45] Speaker 2: eventually you're going to pop back up. You pop back
[36:47] Speaker 2: up after ten to fifteen seconds of getting held down
[36:49] Speaker 2: and feel fine. I think that's the same with your fears,
[36:53] Speaker 2: is when you learn to accept that they're just thoughts
[36:55] Speaker 2: and the actual fear isn't going to hurt you. It's
[36:57] Speaker 2: actually there to protect you. A really powerful method, and
[37:02] Speaker 2: it's also something I've used in my sport is that
[37:04] Speaker 2: fear is really closely adjacent to excitement, and so I'd
[37:10] Speaker 2: be really scared for a race because there was a
[37:12] Speaker 2: lot of pressure on it. That was big surf And
[37:14] Speaker 2: I learned through the years that when I finished those events,
[37:17] Speaker 2: I used to be so angry at myself of going
[37:19] Speaker 2: that that was so much fun. I wish I could
[37:21] Speaker 2: have appreciated it more in the moment, And that was
[37:25] Speaker 2: the essentially the hard way through trial and how I
[37:27] Speaker 2: learned that you can have not complete control of your thoughts,
[37:32] Speaker 2: but you can negotiate with them to control your state
[37:35] Speaker 2: of moment in time.
[37:36] Speaker 1: We just mentioned a moment ago. In the last couple
[37:38] Speaker 1: of days have been quite a few sightings of a
[37:40] Speaker 1: white shark, great white shark, particular round BONDI what should
[37:46] Speaker 1: we do about it?
[37:47] Speaker 2: It's a tough one, particular great white shark.
[37:49] Speaker 1: Well, yes, this particular one, but also ones here others
[37:52] Speaker 1: will follow, I mean, and it might not be great whites,
[37:54] Speaker 1: it might be bull sharks or other types of sharks.
[37:57] Speaker 1: But I'm doing a dangerous one. But what should we
[38:02] Speaker 1: be thinking about as a as a community. Should we
[38:04] Speaker 1: be putting pressure on the government? Should make sure that them
[38:07] Speaker 1: should be more drone? So I thinks I noticed the
[38:09] Speaker 1: guy that he's doing it for free, but he's been
[38:11] Speaker 1: following that whiteout around with his own drone. What do
[38:14] Speaker 1: you think about this?
[38:14] Speaker 2: I want to be pretty transparent in the fact that
[38:17] Speaker 2: I'm not an expert. I don't have a full understanding
[38:19] Speaker 2: of both sides of the arguments. But my perspective on
[38:22] Speaker 2: it is that something does need to be done. I
[38:24] Speaker 2: think there's definitely been more shark attacks in Australia in
[38:27] Speaker 2: the last year or two than they have been in
[38:29] Speaker 2: my entire life. And the beaches are such an important
[38:35] Speaker 2: part of Australian culture. They've provided me with such joy.
[38:37] Speaker 2: They're one of my the things I'm most proud of
[38:39] Speaker 2: as an Australian is our ocean culture, and so we
[38:43] Speaker 2: need to feel safe in our water. I don't like
[38:46] Speaker 2: the idea of needlessly killing animals, and I think there's
[38:48] Speaker 2: a lot of data out there that shows that coloring
[38:51] Speaker 2: doesn't work, especially for these sharks like great whites. And
[38:55] Speaker 2: I think another one will come back, pardon another one
[38:57] Speaker 2: will It will come back from New Zealand or Africa
[39:00] Speaker 2: at Areca or something like that. So yeah, I think
[39:06] Speaker 2: that's either extremes aren't options. I think we can't just
[39:09] Speaker 2: leave it and expect it to fix itself. But I
[39:11] Speaker 2: think culing isn't the right solution in my opinion. The
[39:15] Speaker 2: drones seem like a pretty harmless option with a lot
[39:17] Speaker 2: of upside, particularly on that day of Kuljie. I understand
[39:21] Speaker 2: that they have to be cautious of the airspace and
[39:24] Speaker 2: the planes. That's definitely a real risk, But from my understanding,
[39:28] Speaker 2: most of the life savers have to get license to
[39:30] Speaker 2: control those drones so they will know that they can't
[39:32] Speaker 2: fly into the air space. And it was such a
[39:34] Speaker 2: clear day that you could see from the footage how
[39:37] Speaker 2: easy it was to see that shark and the water
[39:39] Speaker 2: would have been able to get cleared before the shark
[39:42] Speaker 2: actually came into the bay. So I know that there's
[39:45] Speaker 2: already action being undertaken to get more drones out there.
[39:49] Speaker 2: In terms of what else needs to be done, I
[39:52] Speaker 2: think there needs to be people that understand the issue
[39:54] Speaker 2: more than me taking the time to sit down and
[39:57] Speaker 2: make a plan. So I'm not going to give a
[40:00] Speaker 2: precise answer, but I'd like to encourage the governments and
[40:05] Speaker 2: the people that can help to mitigate this risks.
[40:08] Speaker 1: I notice you that you've got a thing here called
[40:10] Speaker 1: Serve Fantasy app.
[40:12] Speaker 2: Yes, what is that? Yeah, So that's been a passion project,
[40:16] Speaker 2: a little business venture that myself a made of mine,
[40:19] Speaker 2: Archie and my dad have been working on for about
[40:22] Speaker 2: a year now. It's probably about a year now that
[40:23] Speaker 2: we we started work on it, and that came from
[40:27] Speaker 2: me finishing my unie degree and wanting to take a
[40:29] Speaker 2: year to focus on sport and wanting to have a
[40:33] Speaker 2: project on the side at the same time. So the
[40:35] Speaker 2: initial goals of it were to grow the audience of
[40:38] Speaker 2: the sport that I do, surfari seating. I man basically
[40:41] Speaker 2: creating a surf sports fantasy platform so you can pick athletes,
[40:46] Speaker 2: real athletes that compete in the SHROMP Partners World Ocean
[40:49] Speaker 2: Series events and get points based on how those athletes
[40:52] Speaker 2: perform and compete against your mates to try and outperform them.
[40:57] Speaker 2: And it's been a really valuable experienced me, I think,
[41:01] Speaker 2: because it's one got me educated on understanding the capabilities
[41:08] Speaker 2: of AI. So AI went a lot, contributed a lot
[41:12] Speaker 2: to the development of the website. It's funny upon reflection
[41:15] Speaker 2: now that how quickly it's developed. I think we could
[41:16] Speaker 2: have done it in a week if we started now,
[41:18] Speaker 2: whereas a year ago it took us about six months
[41:20] Speaker 2: to negotiate it, to listen to us about what database
[41:23] Speaker 2: structure we wanted. And yeah, it's been really fun project.
[41:26] Speaker 2: We've we got it up to two thousand users within
[41:29] Speaker 2: our first year, and we've got lots of feedback on
[41:33] Speaker 2: what people loved and what people want us to fix,
[41:35] Speaker 2: and yeah, go check it out. So fantasy dot com
[41:37] Speaker 2: if you want.
[41:38] Speaker 1: To have a look. It is an app, or you've
[41:39] Speaker 1: got it as a web based app, so you get
[41:41] Speaker 1: currently a website, website.
[41:42] Speaker 2: We're working on developing it into an AP.
[41:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you got to turn it into an app,
[41:46] Speaker 1: but right now, so web app. So you go onto
[41:48] Speaker 1: the website, so serve fantasy dot com. Yeah, dot dot
[41:53] Speaker 1: com do you yes? Okay, you even thought yourself, why
[41:58] Speaker 1: was I there at that time? Why was Charlie there?
[42:01] Speaker 2: I guess I'd watched it on television and seen it
[42:03] Speaker 2: on the newspaper enough times where it was my turn.
[42:06] Speaker 2: People have asked me a lot about that, actually, about
[42:09] Speaker 2: do I feel like I was lucky or unlucky in
[42:12] Speaker 2: that scenario? Yeah, And I like to say that Leah
[42:15] Speaker 2: was definitely more unlucky than she was lucky. She was
[42:19] Speaker 2: doing all the right things, swimming close to shore on
[42:21] Speaker 2: a busy day, on a really clear day.
[42:23] Speaker 1: Between the flags, between the flags of all things.
[42:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I spend a lot of time in the water,
[42:30] Speaker 2: so I would say there's a lot more likelihood that
[42:32] Speaker 2: I was going to be confronted with that situation than
[42:35] Speaker 2: someone living out at Woga yeah, Yeah, I think it
[42:39] Speaker 2: is a pretty great coincidence that someone that does feel
[42:44] Speaker 2: as confident in the water as I do has had
[42:46] Speaker 2: the training that I've had, and coming back to the
[42:50] Speaker 2: upbringing that I've had that allowed me to stay in
[42:53] Speaker 2: the water. I think that was pretty lucky. And I
[42:57] Speaker 2: don't think of this as something that happened to me.
[43:00] Speaker 2: I think of this as something that happened to Leah,
[43:02] Speaker 2: and I'm grateful that I was nearby and able to
[43:05] Speaker 2: do something to help. So finding out yesterday that she
[43:09] Speaker 2: had worken up and said a few words to her
[43:10] Speaker 2: family was a pretty big moment for me, pretty emotional
[43:13] Speaker 2: moment for me because it made me know that what
[43:16] Speaker 2: I did actually did contribute something. But at the same time,
[43:21] Speaker 2: I'm not going through anything right now relative to what
[43:24] Speaker 2: her and her family are actually going through.
[43:27] Speaker 1: If Leah's watching this, no doubt she will be at
[43:29] Speaker 1: some stage. What would you say to her, because you
[43:33] Speaker 1: haven't a chance to talk to her, Well, I haven't
[43:36] Speaker 1: had a chance. What would you say to her?
[43:43] Speaker 2: I think I would say, I'm sorry for what you've
[43:46] Speaker 2: had to go through, for what's happened to you. I'm
[43:50] Speaker 2: sorry I couldn't do more. To help. I'm so happy
[43:55] Speaker 2: that you've been able to pull through this. I'd want
[43:59] Speaker 2: to know what else I could do to help her
[44:01] Speaker 2: in her journey to recovery. And I would want to
[44:06] Speaker 2: find out how she could get back to in the
[44:08] Speaker 2: closest way she could, to her normal life with her daughter.
[44:12] Speaker 2: And yeah, again I don't know a lot of detail
[44:16] Speaker 2: about Leah. I haven't been able to communicate with the
[44:18] Speaker 2: family because they've got plenty going on, But I wanted
[44:22] Speaker 2: to get back to be able to do things she loves.
[44:25] Speaker 1: Wi chi Verko, thanks very much for being a good
[44:28] Speaker 1: Australian on that day and doing all those things you've
[44:32] Speaker 1: been trained for and all those things that someone probably
[44:36] Speaker 1: your dad someone's prepared you for and you save your life. Mate.
[44:39] Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
[44:40] Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's very kind. Thank you for
[44:42] Speaker 2: having me

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.