# Michael Cheika on the Sydney Roosters, Building Winners & Coaching Culture (round 2)

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 17 Aug 2026, 46 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/47915295-9d67-436f-b213-b4a90023e322/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Most coaches talk about culture. Michael Cheika has actually built it — across five countries, two codes, and some of the hardest turnaround jobs in world rugby. In this live podcast at the Sydney Roosters Business Club, MB sits down with Cheika to unpack what real alignment looks like from the inside, why pressure is an illusion, and what it actually takes to build a team that knows how to win. Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Michael Jagger, Welcome to Straight Talk at the Sydney Rooster's
[0:05] Speaker 1: Business Club.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Welcome mate, Thank you, thanks for having me here. This
[0:09] Speaker 2: is not our first conversation.
[0:10] Speaker 1: Actually, I wish you could have listened to the conversation
[0:13] Speaker 1: we just had for the last thirty minutes.
[0:16] Speaker 2: You've done it all basically when it comes to Roaby Union.
[0:19] Speaker 1: But you've gone from Roaby Union, you've come across to
[0:22] Speaker 1: a rugby league club, the Sydney Roosters. I know you
[0:24] Speaker 1: have had some experience with Robert many many years ago.
[0:28] Speaker 1: Could you just tell our audience what is the thing
[0:30] Speaker 1: that surprised you most about the Sydney Roosters club, both
[0:35] Speaker 1: at a coaching level and admin that you didn't expect
[0:39] Speaker 1: to experience as a club.
[0:42] Speaker 2: Okay, that's a tricky one to start me off.
[0:45] Speaker 3: I don't know if I would say that I was
[0:47] Speaker 3: surprised because when you watch Roosters from the outside, as
[0:54] Speaker 3: an outsider who may know something about it, you I
[0:58] Speaker 3: see a club that's very aligned, and that's extremely important.
[1:06] Speaker 2: Alignment.
[1:06] Speaker 3: If you can get chairman, CEO, coach, captain, everyone in
[1:11] Speaker 3: a line, then that is in the teams I've been
[1:14] Speaker 3: in that have had success. That's been a precursor. So
[1:17] Speaker 3: you see that from the outside.
[1:19] Speaker 2: Was it a perception you had from the outside before
[1:21] Speaker 2: you have got roasters?
[1:22] Speaker 3: Yes, I would see very few. As a supporter and
[1:26] Speaker 3: as a guy who's watched the game for a long time,
[1:28] Speaker 3: you don't often see that picture appear. And you know,
[1:35] Speaker 3: the media can be tough here in this market. Around teams,
[1:38] Speaker 3: you don't often see that picture of lack of clarity
[1:42] Speaker 3: or alignment. There's the odd one here or there, but
[1:44] Speaker 3: you don't You rarely see it. And I think Roosters
[1:47] Speaker 3: are known for that, if I'm being honest, that they're
[1:49] Speaker 3: known for that around the game. Anyone that I've spoken
[1:52] Speaker 3: to who you know from rugby, let's say, go, oh,
[1:55] Speaker 3: he must be Rooster's. That's a great club, you know
[1:57] Speaker 3: what I mean. So there's that image. I'm just saying
[1:59] Speaker 3: it as the Rooster's business club, right, there's that image
[2:02] Speaker 3: already that's out there. And then when I came into
[2:04] Speaker 3: the club, you genuinely feel that. I think you feel
[2:09] Speaker 3: from the influence of Nick Poliitis and just the way
[2:14] Speaker 3: that he'll deal with you on a one on one basis.
[2:18] Speaker 3: Through the board members when they're either at games or
[2:22] Speaker 3: away from games, and then down through CEO and his
[2:26] Speaker 3: role and how I see that or how I've been
[2:29] Speaker 3: influenced by that coach captain, and then down through the
[2:33] Speaker 3: coaching staff. And I think that flow through that alignment
[2:36] Speaker 3: is extremely important. I'm sure there is a lot of
[2:40] Speaker 3: aligned conflict going on higher up that no one's seeing,
[2:44] Speaker 3: but the fact that it's hidden and that then when
[2:48] Speaker 3: everyone makes their decision, they all go with that decision
[2:51] Speaker 3: that makes the club stronger. You feel that when you're
[2:54] Speaker 3: in a coaching position, you feel that you feel that
[2:58] Speaker 3: support and it makes a big difference to how you coach.
[3:01] Speaker 2: Do you think that players get that sense as well?
[3:05] Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely you can tell them there's a lack of
[3:08] Speaker 3: alignment in a club that what happens is there's the
[3:13] Speaker 3: opportunity maybe to speak out of school. Okay, there's this
[3:16] Speaker 3: guy here I can go to and complain about this,
[3:19] Speaker 3: or there's there's little branches that can go off, And
[3:22] Speaker 3: I'm sure that happens at a lot of clubs, in
[3:24] Speaker 3: lots of codes. I've been in clubs where I've had
[3:27] Speaker 3: to go there, turnarounds and change that atmosphere because that's
[3:31] Speaker 3: what's happened before, and you have to play a role
[3:33] Speaker 3: maybe as a coach, in the middle of that tree,
[3:36] Speaker 3: to maybe align the people above you, because you can't
[3:38] Speaker 3: always count on those sometimes, you know what I mean,
[3:40] Speaker 3: You've got to make sure that they're aligned to the
[3:42] Speaker 3: story as well. But I feel like roosters, the story
[3:45] Speaker 3: set up from the top, and that story is then
[3:50] Speaker 3: pushed down or it flows down to all of us
[3:57] Speaker 3: who are involved with the team, and we feel a
[3:59] Speaker 3: part of it same story.
[4:01] Speaker 1: Do you feel as though when you compare your last
[4:05] Speaker 1: stint in the Australian Rugby Union I are you coaching Australia,
[4:10] Speaker 1: which is twenty nineteen.
[4:13] Speaker 2: Do you look back at that period.
[4:15] Speaker 1: Is there anything you would contrast with what you're enjoying
[4:19] Speaker 1: now or what you're experiencing now as a club as
[4:22] Speaker 1: our club, relative to what you experienced back in twenty
[4:25] Speaker 1: nineteen when you got into the Semis.
[4:26] Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think it's different. Obviously here I'm in
[4:30] Speaker 3: an assistant coaching role, so I'm not the head coach,
[4:33] Speaker 3: which is a different experience. Also from how you interact
[4:37] Speaker 3: with board members and with leadership. I am in my
[4:41] Speaker 3: time there. When I started with Australia. I had good
[4:45] Speaker 3: alignment with chairman, CEO and from the start, and then
[4:50] Speaker 3: when they changed, when those people changed, that was more
[4:56] Speaker 3: difficult and I put that, let's say two nineteen, I
[5:02] Speaker 3: put that back on me because that I should be
[5:06] Speaker 3: good enough to be able to create an environment where
[5:09] Speaker 3: those people even if it's not that I can align
[5:12] Speaker 3: them to the vision that I have, even if I'm
[5:15] Speaker 3: not at the very very top of that. So that's
[5:18] Speaker 3: the skill and it's something I learned from that experience.
[5:20] Speaker 3: I think you've got to have strong values in what
[5:24] Speaker 3: you do in coaching, and you line those values up
[5:27] Speaker 3: with a club and with people who can share those
[5:30] Speaker 3: and also add to them, it makes you even more
[5:33] Speaker 3: powerful so when you come against them. And I've had
[5:36] Speaker 3: that experience having to be in turnaround teams before, where
[5:39] Speaker 3: you've got to try and change people or change the
[5:42] Speaker 3: story that everyone aligns to, and in that instance, I
[5:45] Speaker 3: wasn't able to do it. I think that's documented. I've
[5:48] Speaker 3: said it myself, but it's been a huge learning experience
[5:52] Speaker 3: to me from there for what I've done since, whether
[5:55] Speaker 3: it be with Argentina, Roosters, Leicester in the UK, in Japan.
[6:01] Speaker 3: So it's been you know, something for me that I'm
[6:05] Speaker 3: very I would be very, very focused on inside of
[6:09] Speaker 3: the club is that connection from the top down right
[6:12] Speaker 3: through the group say that we're a strong club.
[6:14] Speaker 1: Together to some extent though it's not just it's called
[6:18] Speaker 1: it the board, or that's called it the power brokers,
[6:20] Speaker 1: there's only one and managing downwards though because to a
[6:27] Speaker 1: large extent the coaching staff has to manage upwards too.
[6:31] Speaker 2: You have to manage everyone else's expectations.
[6:34] Speaker 1: And maybe a good example of that, and I know
[6:37] Speaker 1: you're not the head coach in this case, but where
[6:39] Speaker 1: i'd like you to give you your opinion on this,
[6:41] Speaker 1: A good example of that was in Israel Flower issue
[6:46] Speaker 1: back in.
[6:47] Speaker 2: Nine eight nineteen.
[6:48] Speaker 3: Yeah, it was around that and.
[6:51] Speaker 2: He was one of your players.
[6:54] Speaker 1: And for those people don't remember, maybe you could just
[6:56] Speaker 1: explain it from what you remember.
[7:00] Speaker 2: What was the issue for a start.
[7:01] Speaker 3: Well, I think there was the social media, which obviously
[7:05] Speaker 3: is there for everyone at the moment to deal with,
[7:07] Speaker 3: whether it's inside your own business or inside of your
[7:09] Speaker 3: kids or personal lives or your private life. That is
[7:16] Speaker 3: extremely that was new on the scene about having a
[7:18] Speaker 3: voice on all social issues and how does that balance
[7:22] Speaker 3: out with employers and can your employees have a voice
[7:25] Speaker 3: on socials things that a lot of organizations even today
[7:29] Speaker 3: still wouldn't be ready for. And so obviously there was
[7:33] Speaker 3: comments made that were out of kilter with what we
[7:35] Speaker 3: would want in a normal conversation with ways. But it's
[7:40] Speaker 3: connected to a lot of different and how could I
[7:44] Speaker 3: say controversial can be? Could be controversial topics? Freedom of speech,
[7:50] Speaker 3: freedom of religion, all of those types of things, which
[7:53] Speaker 3: my advice at the time was we as a sporting body,
[7:56] Speaker 3: we are not prepared for those We are not set
[7:59] Speaker 3: up and prepared for those things. So let's tell people
[8:03] Speaker 3: just give us time because we aren't experts in freedom
[8:06] Speaker 3: of speech, We're not experts in freedom of religion. We're
[8:09] Speaker 3: experts in rugby, hopefully, right, and that that's our business.
[8:13] Speaker 3: Give us a bit of time to work this out
[8:15] Speaker 3: and we will come up with the right conclusion.
[8:18] Speaker 1: How do you deal with the media, because the media
[8:19] Speaker 1: will be pressuring you for it because they want pages.
[8:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, I've always a believer that you
[8:26] Speaker 3: create the pole pressure things a bit of an illusion, right,
[8:29] Speaker 3: you know, like what are they going to do? Like
[8:32] Speaker 3: if you are strong in your beliefs with how you
[8:35] Speaker 3: approach a situation as opposed to know the classic let's
[8:39] Speaker 3: get the crisis and management guys in there, because the
[8:41] Speaker 3: minute you say you've got a crisis, that means you
[8:43] Speaker 3: don't know what to do. Right in this instance, if
[8:47] Speaker 3: you say let's go down the road of what I
[8:49] Speaker 3: just said, it doesn't mean you don't know what to do.
[8:51] Speaker 3: It just is we need time to make a good decision.
[8:54] Speaker 3: We need time to make the right decision, the right
[8:56] Speaker 3: decision for the players in the game, and the right
[8:59] Speaker 3: decision for the broader organization, whatever it might be. And
[9:03] Speaker 3: I think that when those scenarios occur where you aren't
[9:08] Speaker 3: in your realm of confidence or you're not in your
[9:12] Speaker 3: area of expertise, you need to take that time to
[9:14] Speaker 3: make good decisions and not feel pressure because pressure is
[9:18] Speaker 3: an illusion, you know. I think to perform you've got
[9:20] Speaker 3: to have for us footy players and cases, you've got
[9:23] Speaker 3: to have a certain amount of pressu you know, the
[9:24] Speaker 3: old balloon. Certain amount of pressure is good if it
[9:27] Speaker 3: doesn't want to be so off too much pressure pop,
[9:30] Speaker 3: you know. And we need to have that right amount
[9:34] Speaker 3: of heed on us to help us make decisions whether
[9:37] Speaker 3: it's to a deadline or for a reason. I think
[9:39] Speaker 3: the same things should be felt about business decisions or
[9:43] Speaker 3: decisions we make as a club. You need to have
[9:45] Speaker 3: that amount of pressure to accurately have the conversation and say,
[9:50] Speaker 3: these are the ramifications, here's what could happen, this is that,
[9:53] Speaker 3: and think that out properly and then go and make
[9:56] Speaker 3: a decision. There's no there's no necessity in that point
[10:00] Speaker 3: to make a speedy decision. You could have stood a
[10:03] Speaker 3: player down, and you can stand up while we are
[10:06] Speaker 3: thinking about what we're going to do and make the
[10:08] Speaker 3: right decision and don't be influenced. Be confident in who
[10:10] Speaker 3: you are and how you make decisions. Because he's one
[10:12] Speaker 3: of the great players. He really was a brilliant player,
[10:15] Speaker 3: and all of a sudden this ethical conversation comes up.
[10:22] Speaker 3: Maybe he should have done it in the first place.
[10:24] Speaker 3: Maybe he should have just kept his views to himself.
[10:26] Speaker 1: But yeah, at the same time, freedom of speech is
[10:27] Speaker 1: a big issue, but it was going to be controversial
[10:31] Speaker 1: no matter what.
[10:32] Speaker 2: What did you do?
[10:33] Speaker 1: Do you go along to Israel and say, mate, we
[10:34] Speaker 1: need to step aside him, we need to have a conversation.
[10:36] Speaker 1: Do you have to deal with the then CEO or
[10:41] Speaker 1: the then chair and or CEO of AARU. I mean,
[10:45] Speaker 1: do you take on his role and you go in
[10:48] Speaker 1: bat for him, or do you take on their role
[10:51] Speaker 1: and come back and tell him what the policy is.
[10:52] Speaker 3: Well, what happens when you join a club or when
[10:54] Speaker 3: you're given the honor of coaching Australia or something like that.
[10:58] Speaker 3: My responsibility is to the fans, to the public. Right.
[11:03] Speaker 3: The team is a representative of the public in this
[11:05] Speaker 3: instance because it's the national team. So everyone is dispensable
[11:09] Speaker 3: in that organization, me the players. There's always going to
[11:12] Speaker 3: be another great coach and another more great players, et cetera.
[11:15] Speaker 3: So I'm not there to defend him or to defend
[11:19] Speaker 3: the union or to do anything because I had to
[11:21] Speaker 3: do a lot of the speaking at that time in
[11:23] Speaker 3: public on media. I'm there to represent the team. And
[11:28] Speaker 3: in order to represent the team correctly, you need an
[11:30] Speaker 3: aligned front. And if it was hard for me, because
[11:35] Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of alignment going on in the
[11:37] Speaker 3: organization for me to then go out and say this
[11:40] Speaker 3: is how we have, example, I have talked to the
[11:43] Speaker 3: fans at that point. So that's why I think if
[11:45] Speaker 3: you make some logical sense in a situation like that
[11:48] Speaker 3: where you aren't the if they were talking about, well,
[11:51] Speaker 3: we are getting pumped in the scrums, so you need
[11:53] Speaker 3: to do something about it. Well, I need to answer
[11:55] Speaker 3: straight away, right, because that's my era of it. And
[11:57] Speaker 3: you know the answer, Well you should hope so yeah,
[12:01] Speaker 3: so yes, and you should and you're expected to. But
[12:04] Speaker 3: I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't be expected to have
[12:07] Speaker 3: an answer on freedom of speech. I've got my own
[12:09] Speaker 3: personal opinions, but I don't represent that the organization in
[12:14] Speaker 3: that way. So I feel like that extra bit of time,
[12:17] Speaker 3: that the belief in yourselves and the confidence to take
[12:20] Speaker 3: that extra bit of time manage your stakeholders as well,
[12:26] Speaker 3: who'll be at you for different reasons, and just keep
[12:30] Speaker 3: a level And that comes down usually, Mark, I reckon,
[12:33] Speaker 3: that comes down to the previous negotiations you've had with people,
[12:36] Speaker 3: whether they're sponsors, federations, whoever they might be, that they
[12:41] Speaker 3: have a level of trust in the people who are
[12:43] Speaker 3: running the organization to say, Okay, I'll back this guy
[12:46] Speaker 3: because I've seen how he operates or she operates, and
[12:50] Speaker 3: I think that they've got the goods to be able
[12:52] Speaker 3: to deal with this situation. Often that's the case because
[12:55] Speaker 3: often the people who are putting pressure on you haven't
[12:59] Speaker 3: got the whole picture, or are making uninformed decision themselves,
[13:02] Speaker 3: or are making a biased decision in that way. And
[13:05] Speaker 3: just to bring it all back, like I said, I'm
[13:07] Speaker 3: not saying he should have played, he shouldn't have played,
[13:08] Speaker 3: but think about it in this way. In the nineteen
[13:11] Speaker 3: quarter final in the nine and World Cup, Australia went
[13:13] Speaker 3: out in the quarterfinal. As a team I was coaching
[13:16] Speaker 3: in the we played. We played England who went on
[13:19] Speaker 3: to play in the final, and they were ranked high.
[13:24] Speaker 3: We played a pool game against Wales which we lost
[13:29] Speaker 3: by two points. We scored I think four tries to three,
[13:33] Speaker 3: or we scored we didn't kick goals. Israel would average
[13:36] Speaker 3: one and a half tries per game. Right If he's
[13:40] Speaker 3: playing in that game had one and a half tries
[13:42] Speaker 3: or maybe even one, that game is a different result.
[13:46] Speaker 3: That result puts us on the other side of the draw.
[13:49] Speaker 3: The other side of the draw has teams that aren't
[13:51] Speaker 3: ranked as highs and all of a sudden, you could
[13:53] Speaker 3: be in a World Cup semifinal and that's our roles.
[13:57] Speaker 3: So when you think it doesn't have anything to do
[13:59] Speaker 3: with footy. It has the only reason where there is
[14:01] Speaker 3: because of forty eight. It has everything to do with
[14:03] Speaker 3: forty So there's so many ways that you got to
[14:06] Speaker 3: think about that. But when you deal with situations that
[14:10] Speaker 3: aren't in your area of expertise and there's that type
[14:12] Speaker 3: of I think you've got to take the have the
[14:14] Speaker 3: confidence and the time to be able to to tell
[14:18] Speaker 3: the truth to people, not put on a front and
[14:20] Speaker 3: say this is how I'm feeling about it, this is
[14:22] Speaker 3: the direction, the direction we're going to go, and put
[14:25] Speaker 3: a timeline on how you're going to approach things.
[14:27] Speaker 1: We talk often in maybe lea about and we saw
[14:30] Speaker 1: an incident and I won't mentioned incident this last week
[14:34] Speaker 1: where one coach from last weekend where one coach got
[14:37] Speaker 1: stuck into one of his players as a result of
[14:40] Speaker 1: the player doing something that you shouldn't have done. And
[14:46] Speaker 1: we often talk about the duty of care both at
[14:49] Speaker 1: the board has duty care towards players coaches.
[14:52] Speaker 2: We have a duty catch is but everybody's employement.
[14:54] Speaker 1: But not just about we have a duty care to
[14:56] Speaker 1: everybody who is employed at the club. The just have
[15:00] Speaker 1: a duty care to the players. Where does the duty
[15:05] Speaker 1: of care, stop and start relative to the duty.
[15:10] Speaker 2: To win games.
[15:11] Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, okay, I'm getting very philosophical here, mate. The
[15:16] Speaker 3: the the duty is to win games number one, number
[15:23] Speaker 3: one right now. Inside of that, But can you explain why?
[15:27] Speaker 3: Why why do you think that?
[15:28] Speaker 2: Well?
[15:28] Speaker 3: What why else am I brought on? If I'm the
[15:33] Speaker 3: broad on to coach the team. I'm brought on the
[15:34] Speaker 3: coach a team to win.
[15:36] Speaker 1: Because it's your job. Yes, your job, You're employed to
[15:39] Speaker 1: win the comp I.
[15:39] Speaker 3: Gather that's well, that's if that's the goal of the
[15:41] Speaker 3: When the club interviews you and you want what are
[15:43] Speaker 3: your experts? And it's often it's funny in a lot
[15:46] Speaker 3: of the clubs I've been to when I've gone to
[15:47] Speaker 3: speak to the management, who, you know, if they've asked
[15:50] Speaker 3: me to come and talk about possibly taking over or whatever,
[15:52] Speaker 3: I end up having asked them what they what? What
[15:55] Speaker 3: do you want? What do you want from me? Do
[15:57] Speaker 3: you want? You want? What is the success for you?
[16:00] Speaker 2: You know?
[16:00] Speaker 3: Because if you've got to have that picture in your head.
[16:03] Speaker 3: But I think in my mind as a coach, I'm
[16:07] Speaker 3: only going on to teams that want to win. That's it, right,
[16:10] Speaker 3: And only five percent of the teams want to win,
[16:12] Speaker 3: not want to win only five percent. I'd say five
[16:14] Speaker 3: to seven percent of all teams and all players win trophies, right,
[16:18] Speaker 3: because you can see every year there's one and what
[16:21] Speaker 3: eighteen other teams don't make it right, so however many
[16:24] Speaker 3: there is. So I think that number one priority is
[16:28] Speaker 3: to win, but you must understand that you cannot win
[16:33] Speaker 3: neglecting the care that you need to take for players, staff,
[16:38] Speaker 3: whatever it is. It's part of building a team that
[16:41] Speaker 3: will win, because if you are just reckless and burn
[16:43] Speaker 3: everyone on the way, you won't win. You might get
[16:46] Speaker 3: lucky and win once, right, but you won't have consistent success.
[16:51] Speaker 3: And I think that that's all a part of it.
[16:53] Speaker 3: You know. It's how we coaches are always, you know,
[16:56] Speaker 3: we're talking about it before, always acting a little bit,
[16:58] Speaker 3: not acting in genuously, always trying to sell a story, motivate,
[17:04] Speaker 3: keep people up people, try and let people see the
[17:07] Speaker 3: positive sometimes, and try and let people see a little
[17:10] Speaker 3: bit of the other side, like bring people back down,
[17:13] Speaker 3: keep them balanced and ready for the attack. So I
[17:16] Speaker 3: think the duty of care doesn't have to compete with
[17:19] Speaker 3: the duty of winning. I think they can fold in
[17:22] Speaker 3: with each other and I think almost it's part of
[17:24] Speaker 3: winning because when you show care for people like I
[17:28] Speaker 3: think as a coach, you've got to do it. This
[17:30] Speaker 3: is going to sound a little corny, but you've got
[17:32] Speaker 3: to do three things. You've got to have the IQ.
[17:35] Speaker 3: You've got to be able to teach players something. You've
[17:38] Speaker 3: got to be able to teach them new things, show
[17:40] Speaker 3: them new ideas, give them new ways for them to be.
[17:44] Speaker 3: You've got to see that engages them and wants them
[17:47] Speaker 3: to be a part of what you're doing at the club.
[17:49] Speaker 3: You've got to have the You've got to have the
[17:51] Speaker 3: emotional intelligence the EQ. Like you've got to be able
[17:53] Speaker 3: to see the positive and the negative of any situation
[17:57] Speaker 3: in a very short space of time. So you've got
[17:59] Speaker 3: to have that emotional intellience to understand different players' personalities.
[18:03] Speaker 3: And you treat players differently because you have to, but
[18:07] Speaker 3: you value them all the same, no matter whether they're
[18:09] Speaker 3: a million dollar player or your fifty thousand dollar player,
[18:12] Speaker 3: if any of those exist, right, And then you've got
[18:17] Speaker 3: to have a little bit of the love quotion as well.
[18:19] Speaker 3: Every now and then you've got to show that care
[18:21] Speaker 3: that like goes well, I thought this guy was a
[18:24] Speaker 3: hard ass, but he actually really loves me and my
[18:27] Speaker 3: family and will help me get out of this problem,
[18:30] Speaker 3: or you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've had
[18:32] Speaker 3: to do for players over the years that have got
[18:34] Speaker 3: absolutely nothing to do with footy, but they just add
[18:38] Speaker 3: and that that sort of spreads to the feeling that
[18:41] Speaker 3: goes inside of your teams. And I think it's that
[18:44] Speaker 3: care factor is instrumental to winning because it creates that
[18:50] Speaker 3: they talk about, you know always. You know, it's very cliche, Oh,
[18:52] Speaker 3: the team's a family. You know, we're absolutely not a family,
[18:55] Speaker 3: because in a family, if my brother does me in
[18:58] Speaker 3: the eye, I still love him anyway. And what ever,
[19:00] Speaker 3: you know, where brothers on Christmas and we all get
[19:02] Speaker 3: together and have a drink and we love each other
[19:05] Speaker 3: and it's unconditional. But in forty it's absolutely conditional. Turn
[19:09] Speaker 3: up at this weight, be here at this time, make
[19:12] Speaker 3: this many tackles, do this type of training, lift that
[19:15] Speaker 3: many weights, and if you don't, you're out. So the
[19:19] Speaker 3: conditional nature of the team makes it it's not a family,
[19:23] Speaker 3: right because from our point of view, then you create
[19:26] Speaker 3: the other care elements inside the team that are so
[19:29] Speaker 3: important to build the mentality you need to go on
[19:32] Speaker 3: and win.
[19:33] Speaker 2: You do have a reputation as being a bit of
[19:35] Speaker 2: a hard ass. You know that, don't you know?
[19:39] Speaker 3: Yeah, loving caring guy.
[19:42] Speaker 1: But so where does the where does the actual Michael
[19:48] Speaker 1: Checker hard ass start and finish relative to Michael Checker
[19:56] Speaker 1: strategically employing some theater to get a point of.
[20:00] Speaker 3: Us these different scenarios. I'll give you. You're playing in
[20:03] Speaker 3: my team, all right, And let's say I'm playing with
[20:06] Speaker 3: you even in the team or were the same vintage
[20:09] Speaker 3: nearly and or coaching who was Yeah, you look younger
[20:14] Speaker 3: than me. That's very bad for me, right, So I
[20:19] Speaker 3: didn't like what you did on the field, right, and
[20:22] Speaker 3: I give you a gobful about it. So I'll let
[20:25] Speaker 3: you know how I feel in front of the others.
[20:27] Speaker 3: That's orchestrated, right, Training continues whatever. Then at the end
[20:32] Speaker 3: of training, I'll come and get you and we'll go
[20:35] Speaker 3: and do practice of that thing, and I'll do the
[20:38] Speaker 3: practice with you of how to get that thing better
[20:42] Speaker 3: that one thing. Others will see that, Oh so it
[20:45] Speaker 3: didn't just give him a gobful and carry on it,
[20:47] Speaker 3: and then he wants to go and help him be
[20:49] Speaker 3: better and improve and the theory always behind being a
[20:53] Speaker 3: hard ass, and that is that if I'm not then
[20:57] Speaker 3: I'm letting you down because most players can't see the
[21:03] Speaker 3: size of their own potential. If I asked a player
[21:05] Speaker 3: to score themselves, the majority of players will score themselves
[21:09] Speaker 3: on the low side because of the self belief and
[21:13] Speaker 3: self confidence issues that all people have when they're you know,
[21:17] Speaker 3: can I do it? I've got doubts all that type
[21:19] Speaker 3: of stuff. So you've got to eliminate those by saying
[21:23] Speaker 3: you've done the work, you are ready, and therefore you
[21:26] Speaker 3: should have one hundred percent self belief when it comes
[21:29] Speaker 3: to the challenge, and half part of that's got to
[21:31] Speaker 3: be going through the ring. I've done lots of crazy
[21:34] Speaker 3: stuff with guys, Like I was telling a story before.
[21:38] Speaker 3: When I went to it, I was at a club
[21:39] Speaker 3: in Ireland called Leinster. They were known as the cappuccino set,
[21:45] Speaker 3: you know, like they're sipping their lattes in Dublin City
[21:48] Speaker 3: Center while the guys from Munster who were in the
[21:51] Speaker 3: South will working the farm and bashing everybody up. And
[21:54] Speaker 3: we had great players, Brian Adriscall and many players of
[21:57] Speaker 3: that ill but never won anything. So I came in
[22:00] Speaker 3: there and I was like nobody that, no one knew
[22:04] Speaker 3: who I was, et cetera. So and we started playing
[22:07] Speaker 3: a few games and we went to Scotland, Scotland, that's right,
[22:11] Speaker 3: and we were playing against some team I don't even
[22:12] Speaker 3: know who, and it was rubbish. We played so badly.
[22:15] Speaker 3: We got the come home on the plane and by
[22:19] Speaker 3: the time we're getting out of Dublin Airport, we're headed
[22:21] Speaker 3: down the Liffy. I can hear the tone has changed
[22:23] Speaker 3: the river, yes, that the tone's changed from our Well,
[22:28] Speaker 3: we better look upset because the coach is angry and
[22:30] Speaker 3: all of that stuff to oh, let's have a bit
[22:32] Speaker 3: of a laugh and start changing so we can go
[22:34] Speaker 3: out in Dublin that night. And I was esteaming in
[22:38] Speaker 3: my head. I was going, this is like, what who
[22:41] Speaker 3: are these guys? Because I'd come from Round Week where
[22:44] Speaker 3: I played. I wasn't long out of playing where winning
[22:46] Speaker 3: was everything, you know, and I think we won eight
[22:48] Speaker 3: titles there back in the day when everyone was playing
[22:51] Speaker 3: club footy. And I said to the bus driver, like
[22:56] Speaker 3: pull over, pull a bus over, And the bus driver
[22:59] Speaker 3: was going, what said pull the bus over? So he
[23:01] Speaker 3: pulled the bus over, and of course all the players
[23:04] Speaker 3: stop talking because they know, Okay, he's going to crack
[23:06] Speaker 3: it here like this guy. So they didn't really know
[23:08] Speaker 3: me very well. And I stood up in the bus
[23:11] Speaker 3: in the middle of bus. I can't use the language
[23:12] Speaker 3: that I used there, but I basically said, if this
[23:15] Speaker 3: is all there is, if this is what it's about,
[23:17] Speaker 3: if this is how much winning means to you, guys,
[23:20] Speaker 3: well I'm out of here. Open the doors to the bus.
[23:23] Speaker 3: Like obviously, I'm thinking in my head, I hope to
[23:25] Speaker 3: God some of these guys come out and bring me
[23:27] Speaker 3: back on because this could really be problematic. He opened
[23:30] Speaker 3: the doors of the bus. I made him open the
[23:33] Speaker 3: suitcase thing to get my bags out, and I'm rummaging
[23:35] Speaker 3: around like I'm pretending I can't find them, hoping that
[23:38] Speaker 3: someone's going to come and get me. And finally Brian
[23:42] Speaker 3: adrisk aller of the guys who are now my friends
[23:44] Speaker 3: to this day, you know, I mean, who were players
[23:46] Speaker 3: there and Captain they came out and got me said no,
[23:48] Speaker 3: no checks, come back on. We get the message whatever,
[23:51] Speaker 3: and that changes it ratches them up a little bit,
[23:55] Speaker 3: and then you have to keep doing things like that
[23:57] Speaker 3: to get them up by showing that you are.
[23:59] Speaker 2: Prepared to give it all up if you to win.
[24:03] Speaker 3: You know, and I think that.
[24:06] Speaker 2: That is a theater, is it? Is it?
[24:08] Speaker 3: I mean it is, But it's also not because if
[24:13] Speaker 3: they didn't come and get me, then what happens. I've
[24:15] Speaker 3: got to get my bags and take off and go.
[24:17] Speaker 3: So you do put it on the line. You risk
[24:20] Speaker 3: you risk losing the team there and then on that spot,
[24:24] Speaker 3: but you put your chips in and say, if I
[24:26] Speaker 3: don't do this, I don't make these changes. If I
[24:29] Speaker 3: don't get these changes now, I don't want to be
[24:32] Speaker 3: I want to coach guys that want to come on
[24:34] Speaker 3: the journey, you know. And I think I saw in
[24:36] Speaker 3: those guys that they that they did want to come
[24:39] Speaker 3: on the journey. They just didn't know how, they didn't
[24:41] Speaker 3: know what winning looked like. So there's some things you
[24:44] Speaker 3: have to use at different times. And then you know,
[24:47] Speaker 3: you test. You're always testing guys at different times, you know,
[24:52] Speaker 3: around what it means, what it takes to win, and
[24:57] Speaker 3: see how they react.
[24:58] Speaker 1: Do you think there's in a team, either rugby, league,
[25:02] Speaker 1: rouby or probably anything for that matter, probably even business.
[25:06] Speaker 1: Is there teams or businesses or groups of people who
[25:12] Speaker 1: don't really know what it feels like to win, and
[25:15] Speaker 1: therefore they don't win definitely.
[25:18] Speaker 3: Well, I know that when I and I hope the
[25:20] Speaker 3: boys wow. In mind, when I was at Leicester last
[25:23] Speaker 3: year and I win the preseason, I asked the boys
[25:27] Speaker 3: in the we went on a camp and I said,
[25:28] Speaker 3: I'm going to ask a few questions here, getting into
[25:31] Speaker 3: some of the mental prepers So like, okay, so who's
[25:33] Speaker 3: won a comp? You know, I think about four guys
[25:35] Speaker 3: put their hand up, and then I said, okay, who's one, two?
[25:39] Speaker 3: And maybe two put their hand up. I said, so
[25:41] Speaker 3: you guys need to trust in the process that we're
[25:44] Speaker 3: going because we need to learn how to win. We
[25:47] Speaker 3: need to learn what the mental ah, what the mental
[25:51] Speaker 3: landscape looks like in order to be a winner. And
[25:53] Speaker 3: even by doing all that stuff, you may not win
[25:56] Speaker 3: because there's other good teams around. There's no guarantee, right,
[25:59] Speaker 3: there's teams it'll be up for it as much as
[26:01] Speaker 3: you are, et cetera. But there's no doubt that knowing
[26:07] Speaker 3: how to win is a mental performance piece that drives
[26:13] Speaker 3: the improvement. It's like the multiplier of skill development. So
[26:19] Speaker 3: you can do skill development, skill development that thens it,
[26:23] Speaker 3: idiot will have an effect. Obviously, you'll improve your skills.
[26:25] Speaker 3: But when you've got that mental drive or that approach
[26:30] Speaker 3: of I know that this is what I need to do,
[26:33] Speaker 3: This is how I need to compete. This is one
[26:34] Speaker 3: I need to do to win or this one being told,
[26:37] Speaker 3: it looks like I want to discover it and then
[26:39] Speaker 3: you win games. You win games, win games. That's a
[26:42] Speaker 3: multiplier on how that skill improves as a multiplayer effect. Yes,
[26:47] Speaker 3: as an economics exactly the same thing. It's not much difference.
[26:50] Speaker 1: Obviously, if you don't have Jared and a few other
[26:53] Speaker 1: players exit to the side of the end of last year,
[26:55] Speaker 1: and Jared was a hard guy, a tough guy, and
[26:57] Speaker 1: everybody turned to or look to or inspiration motivation when
[27:02] Speaker 1: we knew the tough dude there. He was there our
[27:05] Speaker 1: club at the beginning of this ye didn't have him.
[27:08] Speaker 1: And I don't need you to answer this, but clearly
[27:12] Speaker 1: I can see what Robbo has done. He's brought you
[27:14] Speaker 1: into the forward pack because of your reputation and on
[27:17] Speaker 1: the on the deal it made toughen them up, harden
[27:20] Speaker 1: them up. How has that process been going? I mean,
[27:23] Speaker 1: how did you find them at the beginning here and
[27:25] Speaker 1: where do you see they are today?
[27:26] Speaker 2: Let'll just just talk about the forwards for the moment.
[27:29] Speaker 2: Do you think that.
[27:29] Speaker 1: They are They've got harder, They've got harder.
[27:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that they I think when we talk
[27:34] Speaker 3: about being.
[27:35] Speaker 2: Hard, I think what does that mean?
[27:37] Speaker 3: Yet? Yeah, I think that that really means, well, there's
[27:41] Speaker 3: okay if we go old school, maybe not new school,
[27:45] Speaker 3: old school. There's two versions for me, right, there's tough,
[27:48] Speaker 3: which means you're prepared to take a beating, and then
[27:50] Speaker 3: there's hard, which means you're prepared to dish one out. Yeah,
[27:53] Speaker 3: two different things. I can get up off the ground
[27:55] Speaker 3: and fight, or I can go and go after you
[27:58] Speaker 3: right and make sure that I set the tone that
[28:01] Speaker 3: this is the platform that we're going to play off.
[28:03] Speaker 3: We're going to come after you. That's hard tougher you
[28:06] Speaker 3: can take it as well. You can get pumped and
[28:08] Speaker 3: then go okay, right, that's a good shot. I need
[28:11] Speaker 3: to get up here and get back get going again.
[28:14] Speaker 3: They're two different things. If I talk about how we
[28:20] Speaker 3: are around the stuff I talked about about winning and
[28:24] Speaker 3: the desire to win and how that motivates performance, that's
[28:28] Speaker 3: where you start to get the modern hard I think,
[28:32] Speaker 3: you know, and it is different and it should be
[28:34] Speaker 3: different because things are different now, and the more people
[28:39] Speaker 3: start to believe in themselves that I can get the
[28:42] Speaker 3: job done over this guy, I can take this guy on.
[28:45] Speaker 3: I'm in this situation and I can win. Right, three
[28:48] Speaker 3: guys coming at me, I can still spin in my
[28:50] Speaker 3: front or pull a guy to the side, leave a
[28:53] Speaker 3: markt behind, or I can still hurt a guy when
[28:56] Speaker 3: I carry. When I say hurt, I mean like say
[28:59] Speaker 3: that the next time he comes to me, I'm having
[29:01] Speaker 3: a second he's having a second thought about what he does. Right.
[29:04] Speaker 3: That's the type of approach that's outside of the technical
[29:08] Speaker 3: realm that players can share with each other as well,
[29:13] Speaker 3: because I'll do it once, then another guy I'll do
[29:15] Speaker 3: it another time, and we'll start to connect on that basis.
[29:19] Speaker 3: Even though it sounds barbaric, it's not. It's just laying
[29:23] Speaker 3: the platform and the momentum of the game because usually
[29:26] Speaker 3: that then lead That attitude then leads to rucks that
[29:28] Speaker 3: keep moving right. Rock speed goes faster, attack goes better,
[29:33] Speaker 3: things happen and flow much nicer, And to say the
[29:36] Speaker 3: opposite in defense, So I know you say Jared's not there,
[29:43] Speaker 3: or there's a bunch of Jared's there. They are just
[29:47] Speaker 3: discovering themselves now, you know. And that's what players do,
[29:51] Speaker 3: they find their unique way. I'm not going to mention
[29:54] Speaker 3: them by name because I don't think that's appropriate. But
[29:57] Speaker 3: there's a bunch of players there, and they're not just
[29:59] Speaker 3: the guys that you might think of immediately front of house,
[30:02] Speaker 3: who've got their own way of being hard right who
[30:06] Speaker 3: their own way of doing it. They may have different
[30:09] Speaker 3: body shapes or different and that usually comes with a
[30:12] Speaker 3: connection of I really want I've got a burning desire
[30:16] Speaker 3: to win here, and I know how to do it.
[30:19] Speaker 3: This is how I'm going to win.
[30:21] Speaker 1: What about leadership, I'm talking about leadership on the field.
[30:25] Speaker 1: I mean when I look at great sides of one
[30:28] Speaker 1: Grand Finals, they all to have a MILLI like an
[30:31] Speaker 1: on field coach when I sell on for coach, like
[30:34] Speaker 1: someone who can take them through. Like if you look
[30:36] Speaker 1: at Penrith and Clear is obviously a big part of
[30:39] Speaker 1: Penrith's success on the field, and obviously his dad's the coach,
[30:42] Speaker 1: so that's what it helps. But how do you how
[30:45] Speaker 1: do you breed or find or skill up someone to
[30:50] Speaker 1: be a great leader on the field.
[30:54] Speaker 3: Those players are relatively they're naturally there. I think they
[31:00] Speaker 3: they see things in a certain way. And then you've
[31:03] Speaker 3: got to cultivate that to make sure that leaders in
[31:07] Speaker 3: our teams know what leadership is. It's one thing saying
[31:12] Speaker 3: a leader, but I reckon, if you ask the room here,
[31:15] Speaker 3: I reckon, you get a lot of different definitions. And
[31:18] Speaker 3: you also have some people who wouldn't have a clip,
[31:20] Speaker 3: like a clear guide on what his leadership. It might
[31:23] Speaker 3: be different. In my mind, it's relatively simple. You've got
[31:26] Speaker 3: to give direction, right, You've got to be able to
[31:31] Speaker 3: create the alignment that goes with that. So we're all
[31:33] Speaker 3: getting on this track, and then you've got to be committed.
[31:38] Speaker 3: Your commitment to that same pathway is the light that
[31:44] Speaker 3: drives everywhere ago and well he not only is he
[31:47] Speaker 3: saying he is doing or she is doing? And I
[31:50] Speaker 3: think that that's simple. Whatever your definition is, you need
[31:56] Speaker 3: to articulate that to the leaders in your that are
[31:59] Speaker 3: coming up, either your business or in your team, so
[32:01] Speaker 3: they know what leadership is. Because of realistically, the guys
[32:04] Speaker 3: who might be in our team, how are they ever
[32:06] Speaker 3: going to know what leadership is? There's so many different
[32:09] Speaker 3: versions and forms or whatever they've had it role modeled
[32:12] Speaker 3: in different ways. So okay, in this team, this is
[32:15] Speaker 3: what leadership means. And then you bring your own personal
[32:18] Speaker 3: touch to that. How you speak to guys. We've got
[32:22] Speaker 3: several different leaders in our team who talk in very
[32:24] Speaker 3: different ways. Teddy talks in a certain way, Lindsay speaks
[32:29] Speaker 3: in another way, Angus would speak in another way, Sammy
[32:33] Speaker 3: Walker would speak differently, Jerry Evans. They've got their ways.
[32:36] Speaker 3: But the more they start speaking with the same format
[32:41] Speaker 3: directly in my mind, okay, direction, how do we eglight
[32:44] Speaker 3: to that? And then I'm committed to doing this and
[32:46] Speaker 3: show it. It really breeds belief inside of a team.
[32:49] Speaker 3: That's why I think leaders can do the more than
[32:52] Speaker 3: just tell people what to do.
[32:54] Speaker 1: Remember talking to Luke Rickinson about the two thousand and
[32:58] Speaker 1: two Grand Final when we were playing against Auckland and
[33:03] Speaker 1: we needed a score and Freddie, who was a captain,
[33:07] Speaker 1: is what Ricco Tommy said to the forwards, he gues
[33:11] Speaker 1: down the other end of the field in old school,
[33:12] Speaker 1: old school. And I then asked Freddy later on and
[33:18] Speaker 1: Freddy said to me, I didn't know whether I could
[33:20] Speaker 1: score or not he said, but I just said it,
[33:23] Speaker 1: and you know Freddy well as I do.
[33:25] Speaker 2: Tipil Freddy.
[33:27] Speaker 1: He scored and that type of thing is pretty amazing
[33:34] Speaker 1: that the other players believed in Freddy so much that
[33:38] Speaker 1: they were able to get us down to the other
[33:40] Speaker 1: end of the field and then Freddy somehow got the try,
[33:44] Speaker 1: but without getting it's another field, he was, they're never
[33:46] Speaker 1: going to score, but they actually believed in him on
[33:50] Speaker 1: field that I get it. How it happens on the field.
[33:54] Speaker 1: Let's say would lose him, we need to we need
[33:55] Speaker 1: to score a try and it's halftime. What does a
[33:58] Speaker 1: coach do at halftime?
[34:00] Speaker 3: There's a technical discussion to behad. Are there technical things
[34:03] Speaker 3: we need to do, they're strategical or tactical things we need?
[34:06] Speaker 3: And what are the mindset issues we need to take
[34:08] Speaker 3: care of with either individuals or with groups.
[34:11] Speaker 2: And you do it? Do you go to the forwards
[34:13] Speaker 2: and talk to them.
[34:14] Speaker 3: About the way it's set up? I don't know. If
[34:15] Speaker 3: you see the video, like the coverage, they're in a
[34:19] Speaker 3: shape there where they're a use shape type thing. So
[34:23] Speaker 3: the spine will go and talk together. Forwards will be
[34:25] Speaker 3: at the base of that. ILL speak to them initially
[34:27] Speaker 3: not any sort of formal form. We'll just get together
[34:30] Speaker 3: king you might talk to the edges or one of those,
[34:34] Speaker 3: or if he thinks there's something in attack that's necessary,
[34:37] Speaker 3: and then we all come back together and we relay
[34:39] Speaker 3: the messages through the head coach and the players who
[34:43] Speaker 3: need to speak, and we come It's just like getting
[34:45] Speaker 3: on preparing for a mission. Here's the things we need
[34:49] Speaker 3: to do that Things may not have changed from the
[34:51] Speaker 3: very start of the game, but they need to be
[34:53] Speaker 3: rearticulated because when you're getting pushed in the washing machine
[34:59] Speaker 3: of the game and the fatigue kicks in, that's where
[35:02] Speaker 3: you're tested around all of those technical, strategical and mental
[35:07] Speaker 3: skills because it's easy. The first thing that you could
[35:10] Speaker 3: shut down is you're thinking. And once we start feeling
[35:13] Speaker 3: and not thinking, then we're in trouble, right as in
[35:17] Speaker 3: sport as a whole, right, So you've always you've got
[35:20] Speaker 3: to feel, because that's how you get the emotion for
[35:22] Speaker 3: the game. But you've got to be guide. That's got
[35:23] Speaker 3: to be guid aby how you think, what you know,
[35:26] Speaker 3: what you see, those situations you see, and then how
[35:30] Speaker 3: you translate them into actions on the field, and so
[35:33] Speaker 3: at halftime. There's usually just I've had all types of
[35:36] Speaker 3: different halftime situations in my life. Somewhere we're up by
[35:39] Speaker 3: a lot, Somewhere we've been down by a heap. Right,
[35:44] Speaker 3: because of the nature of it, it's short, there's not
[35:47] Speaker 3: a lot you can get done, some simple messaging just
[35:50] Speaker 3: to realign everyone on what's important. And that's where I
[35:54] Speaker 3: think a force that's aligned together, that's doing all the
[35:58] Speaker 3: things in unison is way more even if they're the
[36:01] Speaker 3: wrong thing sometimes it's way more powerful than being fractured
[36:04] Speaker 3: in that And I think that's what halftime offen is.
[36:06] Speaker 3: It's just a recalibration of bringing everyone together.
[36:09] Speaker 2: How much is Michael.
[36:10] Speaker 1: Checker evolved as in the coach's mindset over the past
[36:16] Speaker 1: twenty years.
[36:17] Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I never planned on coaching ever.
[36:21] Speaker 3: I didn't even like my coaches when I was playing.
[36:23] Speaker 3: Right like so, I was playing in a club rugby
[36:28] Speaker 3: in ninety nine and one day a guy like David
[36:30] Speaker 3: Campez he asked me, oh, do you want to go
[36:33] Speaker 3: and coach my club team in Italy? I just thought,
[36:35] Speaker 3: it's a good holiday. Why not let's go north of
[36:38] Speaker 3: Italy near Venice? How good? How bad? Can it be?
[36:41] Speaker 3: And I actually quite liked it. The coaching thing. I
[36:45] Speaker 3: didn't sort of think I would get the buzz from it.
[36:48] Speaker 3: But that challenge of trying to get players together to
[36:53] Speaker 3: play different a certain way, build a team philosophy, have
[36:58] Speaker 3: the courage to go at it because it's a contact sport,
[37:02] Speaker 3: and get them mentally prepared for that. I quite like,
[37:04] Speaker 3: you know, challenging sometimes in different scenarios, different languages, et cetera.
[37:10] Speaker 2: And obviously you speak Italian.
[37:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, I played there, so I did speak Italian, and
[37:15] Speaker 3: you speak Arabic. Yeah, and you speak French, French obviously
[37:19] Speaker 3: speak English, anything else, Spanish, Spanish just just for anything.
[37:25] Speaker 2: But you get life learning of like Japanese or something.
[37:28] Speaker 3: Nothing. I can't understand the characters. I need to be
[37:30] Speaker 3: able to do like TV with the subtitles. So that's
[37:34] Speaker 3: pretty much how I learned Spanish. I watched Narcos, you know,
[37:37] Speaker 3: so I could order a hit.
[37:39] Speaker 2: I could order a hit and I could get a
[37:41] Speaker 2: good drug deal going.
[37:42] Speaker 3: But apart from that, I was not much good with
[37:44] Speaker 3: the footy talk.
[37:46] Speaker 2: But in terms of your evolution, yeah, I think that
[37:50] Speaker 2: what's the different between the guy coaching in Italy to
[37:53] Speaker 2: the guy coaching right now. Well, obviously I've got a
[37:55] Speaker 2: stack of experiences.
[37:57] Speaker 3: Like you know, when I was interesting, mate, is when
[37:59] Speaker 3: after nine I did a bit of like commentary work,
[38:03] Speaker 3: which you know I said I'd never do, but I
[38:05] Speaker 3: thought I'm going to put myself in some difficult situations.
[38:07] Speaker 3: I came to roosters. I didn't know what I was doing.
[38:09] Speaker 3: I was never saying. This was in twenty twenty. Robie
[38:12] Speaker 3: put me up to a meeting. I was like, my
[38:14] Speaker 3: pulse was about one hundred and fifty hours going, like
[38:16] Speaker 3: I was so nervous considering I've been And then I
[38:18] Speaker 3: did commentary and the one thing I just tried to
[38:21] Speaker 3: do in the commentary was not given a pinion. Not
[38:23] Speaker 3: I said, this is what the coach would be thinking,
[38:26] Speaker 3: because that's all that's the only area of expertise I
[38:28] Speaker 3: had was the coach. And I would watch the games
[38:31] Speaker 3: while they were playing. And I realized, because I never
[38:34] Speaker 3: really watched much footy apart from our foota when I
[38:36] Speaker 3: was a team, I go like, I actually sort of
[38:39] Speaker 3: know what's going to happen next because I've seen it
[38:42] Speaker 3: a million times before. So I feel like my football
[38:47] Speaker 3: knowledge has improved. The ability. I've got taken on so
[38:50] Speaker 3: many different experiences and different cultures through both different team cultures,
[38:57] Speaker 3: and I've had so many different scenarios occur, like the
[38:59] Speaker 3: one talking about before being involved with different hierarchy, had
[39:05] Speaker 3: just had so much crazy stuff happened that I've just
[39:10] Speaker 3: got it. I don't know what it is like a
[39:14] Speaker 3: technology is another thing, like we were one of the
[39:16] Speaker 3: first users of GPS back in two thousand and six.
[39:18] Speaker 3: I've always been on the technology thing. I've always liked
[39:21] Speaker 3: that contradiction of old school bash them up and high
[39:27] Speaker 3: tech be prepared a little bit, like that was my
[39:30] Speaker 3: business was when I played rugby. I was working for
[39:33] Speaker 3: College Dinnigan. You know, it was lingerie and lace of
[39:36] Speaker 3: fashion producers or whatever on one day, and then go
[39:39] Speaker 3: and crash into people and you know, try and smash
[39:42] Speaker 3: guys up another I love those contradictions. So I've tried
[39:47] Speaker 3: to get smarter as a person and tried so I
[39:51] Speaker 3: can then help pass some of that knowledge on. And
[39:53] Speaker 3: I've always tried to stay as my own vintage but
[39:59] Speaker 3: also contemporary, because if you want to pass on experience
[40:03] Speaker 3: to others who were younger than you, obviously not only
[40:06] Speaker 3: have you got to be able to pass that on.
[40:08] Speaker 3: But you don't sound like an old fuddy duddy A yeah,
[40:10] Speaker 3: in my day, this is what we did. You've got
[40:12] Speaker 3: to be able to pass on a contemporary way. So
[40:14] Speaker 3: you almost talk in their talk and they go, oh, yeah, okay,
[40:17] Speaker 3: this is what that looks like. And so you can
[40:19] Speaker 3: pass on old school theories or philosophies in a sort
[40:23] Speaker 3: of new way, and then just keep yourself up to
[40:26] Speaker 3: date whether and with this much tech and possible, and yeah,
[40:31] Speaker 3: do things like this is the first time in twenty
[40:33] Speaker 3: seven years of coaching, I've been an assistant coach. I've
[40:35] Speaker 3: always been a head coach. So just that, I'd say,
[40:39] Speaker 3: and I threatened Robo, I said, mate, I'm going to
[40:41] Speaker 3: pick up these canes. This more training. I'm getting an
[40:43] Speaker 3: air tasker to do it next week. Like this is crazy,
[40:46] Speaker 3: I can't do it anymore. But that the fact that
[40:50] Speaker 3: you got I can have that experience adds to what
[40:52] Speaker 3: I know. So how would that add to me when
[40:55] Speaker 3: I go back to head coaching, I'll be better at
[40:57] Speaker 3: how do I bring my own people? Because I've now
[41:00] Speaker 3: been in those shoes, you know, when I haven't been
[41:03] Speaker 3: in those shoes. But I feel like I'm good at
[41:05] Speaker 3: that anyway, but I can get better at it as well.
[41:08] Speaker 2: You know, I think that.
[41:11] Speaker 3: I've just got a lot of more experience made and
[41:13] Speaker 3: I'd like to harness that experience, but not just take
[41:16] Speaker 3: it as we did it back then like this. Okay,
[41:19] Speaker 3: I did this back then, like this, What does that
[41:21] Speaker 3: look like now in twenty twenty six? And how can
[41:24] Speaker 3: I modernize that so it's actually effective for today?
[41:27] Speaker 2: Do you think you're a better bloke though a better person?
[41:30] Speaker 3: Well mate, if you say you're a good blake yourself,
[41:32] Speaker 3: that means no one else a better good bloke? Yeah better, yes, yeah, yeah,
[41:37] Speaker 3: without a doubt. I was much more opinionated, closed off
[41:44] Speaker 3: mindset before, like it's my way or the highway, and
[41:48] Speaker 3: that works for a certain period of time. But you know,
[41:51] Speaker 3: I'm sure people have read the book. You know, what
[41:53] Speaker 3: gets you here won't get you there? What got you
[41:55] Speaker 3: here won't get you there? Or they are all those
[41:57] Speaker 3: different theories, and it's very true, like you can get
[42:00] Speaker 3: to a certain place doing a certain thing, and then
[42:03] Speaker 3: the demands will change, the circumstances and the environment will change,
[42:07] Speaker 3: so you have to change if you want to, of course,
[42:09] Speaker 3: And you want to keep going on, you don't have to.
[42:11] Speaker 3: If you want to keep advancing and want to stay
[42:14] Speaker 3: competitive and try to be winning, then you have to change.
[42:19] Speaker 3: But doesn't mean you change your values. You know, I
[42:23] Speaker 3: think you can keep your values or they might evolve.
[42:26] Speaker 3: It's maybe just how you the knowledge you have, the
[42:29] Speaker 3: way you deal with people, you're interpersonal skills, all that
[42:33] Speaker 3: type of stuff. You know, even the challenge now of
[42:37] Speaker 3: AI is very active in our environment now and getting
[42:40] Speaker 3: up to date with that and making sure that you're
[42:45] Speaker 3: trying to find the best out of that so I
[42:46] Speaker 3: can help the team, because at the end of the day,
[42:49] Speaker 3: I want to be better so I can help the
[42:52] Speaker 3: team win. That is it?
[42:54] Speaker 2: So?
[42:54] Speaker 1: Is it would it be fair to say then just
[42:57] Speaker 1: I'm making an assumption based on what you're just saying.
[43:00] Speaker 2: Is that one way?
[43:01] Speaker 1: Because it's humbling to go from being coaching Australia then
[43:04] Speaker 1: to becoming assistant coach in rugby league. Admittedly you haven't
[43:07] Speaker 1: had the head coach job in robu Ley, so it's
[43:11] Speaker 1: not like you're going to get head coach day one,
[43:13] Speaker 1: but it is nonetheless humbling. But is the way you
[43:17] Speaker 1: reconcile that is that you're you're there to learn, and
[43:20] Speaker 1: you're learning and getting better.
[43:22] Speaker 2: At what you do.
[43:23] Speaker 1: Overall as a coach, you're getting better as a coach generally,
[43:27] Speaker 1: because when I heard Robert was mentioning it to me
[43:30] Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, he's Chekhov is going to use
[43:36] Speaker 1: this to build an entrain in to rabya league and
[43:40] Speaker 1: coach a great club and win and maybe take on
[43:44] Speaker 1: head coach job somewhere else, assuming Robo stays on as
[43:48] Speaker 1: head coach with us and he doesn't want to leave us,
[43:51] Speaker 1: or he's he's just decided to experience being an assistant
[43:56] Speaker 1: coach and rabu ley to see what it's like.
[43:58] Speaker 2: What was that? What was the thoughts for you?
[44:01] Speaker 3: Reverse the order like win first, right, because imagine the
[44:06] Speaker 3: experience I'll get if I can help the team go
[44:10] Speaker 3: all the way to that today's place. Who else going
[44:14] Speaker 3: to have? What are the rugby coaches going to have
[44:16] Speaker 3: that experience? Not many? I don't know, if any.
[44:19] Speaker 2: I don't any.
[44:20] Speaker 3: So that's the number one. Yeah, the whole thing. I've
[44:24] Speaker 3: never been set up and you get the experience or whatever.
[44:28] Speaker 3: My go has always been about if I do well
[44:32] Speaker 3: in what I'm doing now, the rest will look after itself. No,
[44:36] Speaker 3: just no planning for the future in that regard, because
[44:41] Speaker 3: that's how it should be. Then you're in charge of
[44:43] Speaker 3: your own destiny the whole time. And so to come
[44:46] Speaker 3: and do this. Yes, all coaches have an ego. Anyone
[44:49] Speaker 3: that tells you the coach doesn't have an ego is
[44:52] Speaker 3: a liar, right, because we all have an ego, and
[44:55] Speaker 3: I have a big one too. But I've got no
[44:57] Speaker 3: ego when it comes to winning. If I can use
[45:00] Speaker 3: something that's going to help me win, then I'm taking it.
[45:02] Speaker 3: I'll be humbled, I don't care because the end of
[45:04] Speaker 3: the day, we'll win and my ego will be fulfilled
[45:06] Speaker 3: because I'll be the coach of the winning team. So
[45:10] Speaker 3: that whole thing is really not for me. I've always
[45:13] Speaker 3: been a bit of a traveler in that way, you know,
[45:16] Speaker 3: a bit of a gypsy in that way around what
[45:19] Speaker 3: happens in footy, and you know, it was different to
[45:24] Speaker 3: come here and do this. But I didn't really hesitate
[45:26] Speaker 3: at all, you know, I think that it really took
[45:29] Speaker 3: just a matter of a couple of conversations and I thought, wow,
[45:32] Speaker 3: like what an opportunity to do. And it's it's been
[45:36] Speaker 3: different for me, but it's been brilliant, Like I couldn't
[45:39] Speaker 3: have learnt what I've learned here ever any other way
[45:44] Speaker 3: except for having had this experience. And if you learn
[45:47] Speaker 3: new stuff, it's only going to it's only going to
[45:49] Speaker 3: make you better.
[45:50] Speaker 2: And yeah, I've had a good time. I'm having good
[45:53] Speaker 2: time as well. Michael.
[45:54] Speaker 1: I'm going to turn over, We're going to stop recording,
[45:56] Speaker 1: but I'm going to turn it over to the audience
[45:58] Speaker 1: to ask questions. But I would like just to formally
[46:01] Speaker 1: say thanks very much to Michael Checker for his candidness,
[46:06] Speaker 1: his honesty, in his willingness, and also all the stuff
[46:09] Speaker 1: he's doing for us this year as our coach, as
[46:11] Speaker 1: our assistant coach, who should say we do have another coach,
[46:15] Speaker 1: but as an assistant coach, has been wonderful having a
[46:17] Speaker 1: chat to you time, mate. And I'm gonna if I
[46:20] Speaker 1: get a round out of a pause from everybody,

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