# Gerard Rennick on How Australia’s Economy Is Broken and How We Fix It

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 26 Jul 2026, 1 h 21 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/6373a670-8acd-449f-9d87-b4900074f57c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Gerard Rennick, founder of the People First Party and former Queensland senator, joined me to discuss his journey from rural Queensland to politics and why he believes Australia needs more leaders with real-world experience. Drawing on his background in finance and a Master’s in Tax Law, Rennick shared his views on the economy, housing, taxation, productivity and capital markets. He has since built his own party from the ground up around five policies he believes could fundamentally reshape how Australia handles money, tax, superannuation and infrastructure. Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Joe Rennick So talk. Thanks for having me. It was
[0:02] Speaker 1: awesome to see here. You're the founder and leader of
[0:05] Speaker 1: the People First Party. That's correct, and we'll talk a
[0:08] Speaker 1: little bit about that in the moment today, and is
[0:11] Speaker 1: where I'm going to get to. We do not have
[0:13] Speaker 1: enough in this country, enough real world experience in politics,
[0:16] Speaker 1: that's my view, and that's where I want to talk,
[0:18] Speaker 1: what I want to talk about and what it's doing
[0:20] Speaker 1: to our country. Yeah, if we go, so let's just
[0:23] Speaker 1: underline yours first.
[0:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Mark, And can I just hone in on
[0:26] Speaker 2: that a little bit more. We don't have enough real
[0:28] Speaker 2: world experience in capital markets that people don't understand. And
[0:32] Speaker 2: I've actually had to unlearn everything I've learned over the
[0:34] Speaker 2: last thirty years just to put that out there at
[0:37] Speaker 2: the start. But So born in nineteen seventy in a
[0:39] Speaker 2: small town that Chinchilla, about two hundred and eighty kilometers
[0:41] Speaker 2: west of Brisbane. So I grew up in a farm,
[0:43] Speaker 2: mixed farming. Mum was a nurse, dad was a farmer,
[0:47] Speaker 2: Miss be Butcher, and then it was an areal surveyor
[0:50] Speaker 2: and navigated large parts of Australia. So then your dad
[0:54] Speaker 2: did Yeah, we work for a company called that at Dashtra,
[0:57] Speaker 2: which is Latin to reach for the Stars. So he
[0:59] Speaker 2: actually was in the navy and was a navigator in
[1:01] Speaker 2: the Gannets, but he failed because he's deaf, and he's
[1:04] Speaker 2: genuinely deaf. So he ended up surveying western New South Wales,
[1:08] Speaker 2: parts of western New South Wales. He was a surveyor
[1:12] Speaker 2: on the when the west Gate Bridge was he surveyed
[1:15] Speaker 2: that and parts of the Trough. And actually on one
[1:19] Speaker 2: weekend he was out riding bulls in western New South Wales,
[1:21] Speaker 2: got kicked off and sent to hospital, got kicked in
[1:25] Speaker 2: the head and sent to hospital, and that's where I
[1:26] Speaker 2: met mum.
[1:27] Speaker 1: Well, yeah he was a nurse. So yeah, she's a chemsy. Girls.
[1:29] Speaker 2: You said he was a bull rider, Well he partly, yeah,
[1:32] Speaker 2: on weekends. That wasn't his hearing.
[1:34] Speaker 1: No, it doesn't matter that.
[1:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, he was a driver for nine months.
[1:37] Speaker 2: He actually drove a cattle from Rome down to Dubbo.
[1:39] Speaker 2: I think I'm a bit sketchy on that, but I
[1:41] Speaker 2: know he was a drover, you know as well, So
[1:43] Speaker 2: you know, just that typical knock about sort of upbringing.
[1:46] Speaker 2: He's still alive. He's ninety one, he's out my brother's
[1:48] Speaker 2: property out in western Queensland.
[1:50] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:51] Speaker 2: So anyway, farming background. But long story short, went and
[1:54] Speaker 2: completed a Bachelor of Commerce at the University of Queensland.
[1:57] Speaker 2: Then that was in and I graduated in poor heatings recession,
[2:01] Speaker 2: so I couldn't get work with it. I had interviews
[2:03] Speaker 2: with all the big five Big six at the time,
[2:05] Speaker 2: didn't get a job there and actually so ended up
[2:07] Speaker 2: going back to Dolby, which is near my hometown at Chinchilla,
[2:10] Speaker 2: and working there in public practice for three years. And
[2:12] Speaker 2: I have to say it was at the time I
[2:14] Speaker 2: thought it was the worst thing that ever happened to me,
[2:16] Speaker 2: but looking back, it was actually one of the best
[2:17] Speaker 2: things that ever happened to me. Because I was with
[2:19] Speaker 2: a small firm. I had face to face interaction with clients.
[2:22] Speaker 2: We did all different sorts of business services, tax, you know, auditing,
[2:27] Speaker 2: all those jobs, and I was at the cold face
[2:29] Speaker 2: of small business, which of course, as you know, is
[2:31] Speaker 2: the engine room in Fustrator's economy. So the second and
[2:34] Speaker 2: third year I started meeting clients and the actually offered
[2:36] Speaker 2: me a partnership when I turned twenty five. I left
[2:39] Speaker 2: when I was twenty three. But I still think that
[2:41] Speaker 2: was really good experience because what that gave you is
[2:43] Speaker 2: the ability to drill down into detail totally. And you know,
[2:47] Speaker 2: I see so many I used to see it at Westfield.
[2:49] Speaker 2: You know, the auditors had come in and they couldn't
[2:51] Speaker 2: actually drill down into detail.
[2:53] Speaker 1: And there's all high level stuff.
[2:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all high level stuff and even and it's
[2:57] Speaker 2: right across not just the political spectrum, but the sector
[3:00] Speaker 2: as well. And in the professional world today, there's too
[3:03] Speaker 2: many professional managers that haven't worked their way up from
[3:06] Speaker 2: the shop floor, and I think that's where we're really suffering.
[3:09] Speaker 1: JD.
[3:10] Speaker 2: Fance did a really good speech on it last year
[3:12] Speaker 2: where we spoke about when we outsourced manufacturing, we were
[3:15] Speaker 2: naive to think that we weren't going to lose the
[3:17] Speaker 2: skills that come with being on the shop floor. You know,
[3:20] Speaker 2: those little rule of thumbs that you only learn when
[3:22] Speaker 2: you're actually on the tools, so to speak. So yeah,
[3:27] Speaker 2: and that's why I said to you earlier on it
[3:28] Speaker 2: was one of the best things that ever happened to
[3:30] Speaker 2: me because it knocked a bit of sense into me
[3:33] Speaker 2: and it just gave me that grounding of knowing how
[3:35] Speaker 2: to drill down into data.
[3:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, and what happened after that? Where'd you go after that?
[3:39] Speaker 2: Well, so then I went overseas for what I thought
[3:42] Speaker 2: it was going to be two years, but ended up
[3:44] Speaker 2: staying for seven years. So I backpacked my well, I
[3:47] Speaker 2: backpacked my way through Africa for almost six months. Part
[3:50] Speaker 2: of that was on an ovaland truck trip. Exodus of
[3:52] Speaker 2: anyone gen X from the travels through Africa in the
[3:55] Speaker 2: nineties will know what I'm talking about. That was great experience.
[3:58] Speaker 2: Yet again, one part of the trip we actually climbed
[4:02] Speaker 2: Killman Jarro and then because I was really keen to
[4:05] Speaker 2: get into mountain climbing at that time, but we also
[4:07] Speaker 2: climbed Mount Karrasimbi, which was the mountain where the gorillas
[4:11] Speaker 2: and the mist were. And this was in the early nineties,
[4:14] Speaker 2: just after the movie came out. But interestingly enough, that night,
[4:17] Speaker 2: when we came off the mountain, as you do, so
[4:20] Speaker 2: this was in Rwanda, as you do when you're backpacking
[4:23] Speaker 2: in your early twenties, you go out drinking. So anyway,
[4:25] Speaker 2: we had Rwandan troops come and say to us, look,
[4:28] Speaker 2: there's a curfew on. You're not supposed to be our drinking.
[4:31] Speaker 2: But we'll let you drink if you buy us a
[4:32] Speaker 2: few beers. So we bought them a few beers and
[4:34] Speaker 2: had a bit of a conversation. Anyway, they gave us
[4:36] Speaker 2: an escort home with guns over their shoulders. We thought
[4:40] Speaker 2: it was all pretty jovial at the time. And that
[4:43] Speaker 2: was a Sunday night, and the war broke out on
[4:44] Speaker 2: the Wednesday, so we left on the Tuesday. Well yeah,
[4:47] Speaker 2: and the interesting thing about it at the time, and
[4:50] Speaker 2: obviously we're an outsiders looking in and that was a
[4:52] Speaker 2: French speaking country, not an English speaking country. But I
[4:55] Speaker 2: had no idea that that genocide was about to take place.
[5:00] Speaker 2: You know, that's a real big lesson I got from
[5:02] Speaker 2: traveling is how quickly things can go from peace to wartime.
[5:06] Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, So got to London,
[5:12] Speaker 2: worked for let me just think about this now, British
[5:15] Speaker 2: BBC and British Rail. Interestingly enough interest and with British Rail,
[5:21] Speaker 2: this was at the time they privatizing British Rail, so
[5:24] Speaker 2: they offered people redundancies. So because all the people that
[5:27] Speaker 2: were quite the good workers and who backed themselves to
[5:29] Speaker 2: get another job when took the redundancy, and then they
[5:32] Speaker 2: realized that they lost a lot of their good workers,
[5:35] Speaker 2: so that the new contracting company had to come back
[5:38] Speaker 2: in and offer these people that took a redundancy actually
[5:40] Speaker 2: offered them a new contact to come back on the
[5:43] Speaker 2: following Monday and keep working, so that it was a
[5:46] Speaker 2: really interesting I mean I was just a contractor, you know,
[5:49] Speaker 2: as an Aussie xpact, just observing all this. It wasn't
[5:52] Speaker 2: it all, but it was yet another one of these
[5:54] Speaker 2: sort of chink in the armor about what I'd been
[5:56] Speaker 2: taught about the benefits of privatization in my university, to
[6:01] Speaker 2: you know, to see that we'll really, you know, this
[6:04] Speaker 2: privatization is everything it was cut up to be. Because
[6:07] Speaker 2: there's a lot of tension there between the people with
[6:09] Speaker 2: the contractors who used to be full time employees because
[6:12] Speaker 2: they've got a big payout verse those that didn't take
[6:15] Speaker 2: the payout and were still getting their wages. So that
[6:18] Speaker 2: was an interesting experience as well. But anyway, so I
[6:22] Speaker 2: worked for them, worked with BBC, so you know, I
[6:26] Speaker 2: did David Attenberg's time sheets and things like that. I
[6:28] Speaker 2: was out of the Ling studios as a management counting
[6:30] Speaker 2: out there. Oasis filmed Champagne soup and over the day
[6:34] Speaker 2: I was out there, I didn't see them, but they
[6:36] Speaker 2: were in a couple of rooms next door sort of
[6:39] Speaker 2: filming that. So that was all pretty cool. But then
[6:41] Speaker 2: I got a phone call one day saying, how would
[6:44] Speaker 2: you like a job traveling the world? You know, and
[6:47] Speaker 2: we'll pay for it. I was like, yeah, I'd love
[6:49] Speaker 2: to you know, that's random, Yeah, yeah, very random. Yeah,
[6:52] Speaker 2: it was very random. But anyway, yeah, I'd love to you.
[6:55] Speaker 2: So I've got flat a damn stand for an interview
[6:57] Speaker 2: and it was probably the shortest account of interview I
[6:59] Speaker 2: over had the bloke to said if your account, you
[7:01] Speaker 2: shouldn't know what to do, and then he was more
[7:02] Speaker 2: interested in my travels to that date. And it turns
[7:04] Speaker 2: out he was from Brisbane as well. Glenn reed, if
[7:07] Speaker 2: you're still listening, And anyway, I got a job where
[7:10] Speaker 2: basically I was based out of Amsterdam for the next
[7:12] Speaker 2: three years. I was in and out of Amsteam about
[7:15] Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen times. But I had long story sure about
[7:18] Speaker 2: eight months in Amsterdam, eight months in Brazil, eight months
[7:21] Speaker 2: in Norway, eight months in the States, and six months
[7:24] Speaker 2: between Finland, Chili and Argentina, where I just basically was
[7:28] Speaker 2: well as my technical role as group financial international Controller.
[7:33] Speaker 2: And as my boss would say, people either do two
[7:35] Speaker 2: things when I hear that title, I over either fall
[7:38] Speaker 2: forward on their knees and start grovelling, or fall backwards
[7:41] Speaker 2: laughing at such a long winded name. But anyway, look,
[7:44] Speaker 2: it was just a general dog's body in finance world.
[7:46] Speaker 2: So board companies installed software, completed financial statements, things like that.
[7:51] Speaker 2: But it was a great experience because that's turned twenty
[7:54] Speaker 2: five by the time I got the job, and I
[7:55] Speaker 2: was basically paid to live in five star hotels and
[7:59] Speaker 2: go to work every day in different countries and on
[8:01] Speaker 2: the weekends. The weekends from mind, like when I was
[8:03] Speaker 2: in the States, you know, I was given the use
[8:05] Speaker 2: of a Mustang to drive around high cast I got
[8:08] Speaker 2: a Mustang, as you do. And that was in Sarah SAIDA.
[8:10] Speaker 2: We did a shared service implementation for all the back
[8:13] Speaker 2: offices across the States.
[8:15] Speaker 1: That was a good role.
[8:17] Speaker 2: In Brazil, I had to train up financial control and
[8:19] Speaker 2: we bought a company there, you know, same again in Norway.
[8:22] Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you just on that? Like when
[8:26] Speaker 1: you work in those environments for long periods of time,
[8:28] Speaker 1: for such long period fairly long periods of time, Anyway,
[8:32] Speaker 1: what did you learn about places like Norway versus Brazil
[8:35] Speaker 1: versus US like, in terms of how countries are run
[8:39] Speaker 1: by the administration, by the governments. Do you see any
[8:42] Speaker 1: really stark differences between see what's happening here and was
[8:46] Speaker 1: there something you would take from there that you would
[8:48] Speaker 1: love to see happen here.
[8:49] Speaker 2: Well, Brazil was dealing with inflation the end of it.
[8:52] Speaker 2: So I didn't have really bad inflation when I was there,
[8:54] Speaker 2: but we had to pay bills before we got the invoice.
[8:57] Speaker 2: Well that was just because obviously what it was if
[9:00] Speaker 2: you've got really rampant inflation, and what is rampant inflation?
[9:03] Speaker 1: What levels?
[9:04] Speaker 2: Well, double digit, right, because justly double digit. Yes, so
[9:08] Speaker 2: if you're looking at anything over twelve percent a year,
[9:11] Speaker 2: you're losing one percent over thirty days. Yeah, So basically
[9:14] Speaker 2: they're very short upfront payment terms, like you basically had
[9:18] Speaker 2: to pay on the day because if you've got rampant inflation,
[9:20] Speaker 2: which is you know, you can define it anything fifteen percent,
[9:23] Speaker 2: but Brazil had come off even a higher figure. That
[9:26] Speaker 2: money just appreciates away. Even in just the daily the
[9:30] Speaker 2: day to day businesses of dealing with transactions, Inflation is
[9:34] Speaker 2: a problem. It's not just the cost of living issue,
[9:36] Speaker 2: it's actually trying to get paid on time. So there
[9:39] Speaker 2: was that issue. I found the Americans extremely optimistic, you know,
[9:43] Speaker 2: they were always very optimistic. Remember actually we did it.
[9:47] Speaker 2: We brought a company in Washington, DC before I went
[9:49] Speaker 2: down to Sarasota and I was staying in a hotel
[9:52] Speaker 2: and opposite the hotel they were building a new building
[9:55] Speaker 2: and they were literally building a level every day. Well,
[9:58] Speaker 2: and I can remember being shocked and how fast. I
[10:01] Speaker 2: member thinking, we don't build that fast here in Australia.
[10:04] Speaker 2: So they were very efficient. And it's not surprising. I
[10:06] Speaker 2: mean houses, house prices in Australia sorry, in the States
[10:10] Speaker 2: are much lower than I are here.
[10:11] Speaker 1: They can build a house there in three months. Yeah
[10:13] Speaker 1: he is like eighteen months. Yeah. Yeah.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Norway I mean obviously very dark, cold, you know, they
[10:19] Speaker 2: eat lunch at eleven thirty, lots of fish, you know,
[10:23] Speaker 2: But hard not to love the country. I mean, it
[10:25] Speaker 2: was just a beautiful country. I had the benefit of
[10:28] Speaker 2: sort of being there from arriving in the end of
[10:30] Speaker 2: the winter right through the summer period, so I saw
[10:33] Speaker 2: the change of seasons as well.
[10:35] Speaker 1: But we have in terms of administration because we talk
[10:38] Speaker 1: about social leaning or.
[10:41] Speaker 2: Well, look I didn't really because I mean I was
[10:43] Speaker 2: young in my twenties and wasn't necessarily focusing on the
[10:47] Speaker 2: political aspects of the country. It's just the people. But look,
[10:50] Speaker 2: the people are the same. Wherever you go, we're all
[10:52] Speaker 2: the same. It's one race to human race. This is
[10:54] Speaker 2: what we really want to push forward at first. And
[10:57] Speaker 2: you know, look, you know, judge the individual, not the identity.
[11:00] Speaker 2: I was just saying before to some others. You know,
[11:02] Speaker 2: there's just too much identity politics in this country. And
[11:05] Speaker 2: that's the one thing traveling really, you know, I viewed
[11:09] Speaker 2: inside me is that we're just one race to human race,
[11:12] Speaker 2: that we all just want a better life for our children,
[11:14] Speaker 2: and there's so much gratitude towards our forefathers. And then
[11:18] Speaker 2: of course there's the Dutch. I should add I love
[11:19] Speaker 2: the Dutch, that the Dutch people just fantastic. I loved
[11:23] Speaker 2: I loved the Netherlands.
[11:25] Speaker 1: I love this straightforwardness. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, very In
[11:28] Speaker 1: the early stage, you'd misinterpret it as them being route
[11:31] Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, but I worked over for a
[11:32] Speaker 1: long time too, and and then I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[11:37] Speaker 1: the Dutch. Did you know where you stand? Absolutely?
[11:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, just then just straight up like you know, like
[11:41] Speaker 2: you know, if you could ever to do do a deal,
[11:43] Speaker 2: I'd do some sort of backpack a deal with every
[11:46] Speaker 2: euzie should go and I'll spend six months living in
[11:47] Speaker 2: the Netherlands as far as I'm concerned. You know how
[11:50] Speaker 2: we've got the similar deal with the UK. I'd love
[11:52] Speaker 2: to do the same with the Netherlands. It's just such
[11:53] Speaker 2: a great country and great people as well.
[11:56] Speaker 1: You know, do you think all these things, all these
[11:58] Speaker 1: experiences you've had in terms of traveling and work, work trouble,
[12:02] Speaker 1: do you think they have somewhat influenced you when it
[12:04] Speaker 1: comes to people first? Oh? Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
[12:08] Speaker 2: I mean well it's the common denominator of that where
[12:12] Speaker 2: were just the one race to human race. I mean
[12:14] Speaker 2: I spent I ended up going backpacking after that role
[12:16] Speaker 2: for another two years, where I basically traveled globe and
[12:19] Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time throughout the year sitting
[12:21] Speaker 2: in bus stations and meeting different people, working with different people.
[12:24] Speaker 2: And you know, everyone hates their government, doesn't matter what
[12:27] Speaker 2: nationality here are. They hate their government. I hate paying taxes,
[12:31] Speaker 2: all of that stuff. But they have a common They
[12:33] Speaker 2: love their sport. Everyone loves their sport. That's why it's
[12:35] Speaker 2: such a great way to unify people. You know, they
[12:38] Speaker 2: love their children, you know, and it's just I mean,
[12:42] Speaker 2: and here's the thing. The poor of the country I
[12:45] Speaker 2: went to, the more generous the people.
[12:47] Speaker 1: Were, and what did you say, they're happier.
[12:50] Speaker 2: I don't know if they're happy. I certainly much more
[12:53] Speaker 2: hospitable to myself. Yeah, welcoming, Yeah, welcoming.
[12:58] Speaker 1: You know.
[12:58] Speaker 2: I remember one night and I was in Africa. I
[13:00] Speaker 2: went down to mass fingo ruins in Zimbabwe there and
[13:02] Speaker 2: I ended up sort of sleeping on this mattehart and
[13:04] Speaker 2: just thinking how friendly these people were, you know, yet
[13:08] Speaker 2: again in Iran. You know, I traveled through Iran on
[13:10] Speaker 2: the way home. I went from Moscow down through all
[13:12] Speaker 2: the Stars into Iran, Pakistan, India and in Nepal. How
[13:15] Speaker 2: friendly the Iranians were, because even back in the nineties,
[13:17] Speaker 2: you know, big bad Iran. But of course the people
[13:21] Speaker 2: themselves were incredibly friendly and hospitable. And yet again, so
[13:24] Speaker 2: you know, I was probably a little imperiless periles growing up,
[13:27] Speaker 2: you know, in the back of World War Two there,
[13:28] Speaker 2: but you know, I just hate conflicts. I talk about
[13:33] Speaker 2: my maiden speech. You know, strength to the plomacy is
[13:35] Speaker 2: strength to position, and sound to plomacy is what we
[13:38] Speaker 2: really need. And there's a lack of sound to plomacy.
[13:40] Speaker 2: What does that mean sound diplomacy? Well, you know, understanding
[13:43] Speaker 2: now the point of view, you know were you mean nation? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[13:47] Speaker 2: You know, we use a lot of belligerent rhetoric now
[13:50] Speaker 2: governments and politicians, so in the same way we use
[13:53] Speaker 2: it belligerent rhetoric against each other on a domestic level, right,
[13:57] Speaker 2: you know, labor bashes libra, all liberal bashes labor. You know,
[13:59] Speaker 2: Punch and Judy show. We've made the trap of doing
[14:02] Speaker 2: that on international affairs as well, and we shouldn't be
[14:05] Speaker 2: doing that, right because if things get out of hand there,
[14:07] Speaker 2: like well, misinterpreted, misinterpreted things can go wrong. I mean
[14:11] Speaker 2: what we did in Iraq. Iraq was another real come
[14:13] Speaker 2: to Jesus moment for me, because early two thousand, not
[14:17] Speaker 2: the ninety one eighty nine one, because that was in
[14:19] Speaker 2: and out relatively quickly. But what we did in two
[14:22] Speaker 2: thousand and two to three was it where we started
[14:24] Speaker 2: by being Iraq, was that chemical weapons of mass destruction
[14:27] Speaker 2: so called, Yes, so called You know, I don't know
[14:30] Speaker 2: how many people got killed in that, certainly millions were displaced, injured,
[14:34] Speaker 2: you know, had their lives turned upside down for what
[14:36] Speaker 2: was ultimately a lie. And you know, and we've now
[14:39] Speaker 2: done the same with Syria. You know, we've got the
[14:41] Speaker 2: head of al Qaeda, you know, exhead of El Kayder
[14:43] Speaker 2: bloke out a ten million dollar bounty on his head
[14:45] Speaker 2: running Syria. You know, I went through Syria. This was
[14:48] Speaker 2: another beautiful country. There's people living there that don't have
[14:52] Speaker 2: any political inclinations. They're not out to you know. All
[14:55] Speaker 2: they want to do is a roof over their head,
[14:57] Speaker 2: food on the table, and a better life for their children.
[14:59] Speaker 2: And we go and then we destroy their lives because
[15:01] Speaker 2: of some ideology or some preconceived good guy bad guy thing.
[15:06] Speaker 2: And it's like, you know, we've got to think about
[15:08] Speaker 2: these decisions. So this is one of the things that
[15:10] Speaker 2: really concerns me a lot as we head further into
[15:12] Speaker 2: the twenty first century. Is this lack of sound of Planmacy,
[15:16] Speaker 2: I guess, and you know, there's too much belligerent rhetoric.
[15:20] Speaker 2: So yeah, it definitely has impacted me a lot. Well,
[15:22] Speaker 2: what I wanted to establish, is that you had real
[15:24] Speaker 2: life experience. We've established it. I think we're a lot
[15:27] Speaker 2: to talk to you about. Is that point of ideology?
[15:29] Speaker 1: Ideology seems to be splitting us up. Absolutely. Yeah. Division
[15:33] Speaker 1: seems to me to be a part of political play. Yeah,
[15:39] Speaker 1: is that correct? Yeah? It is, and what's making it's
[15:43] Speaker 1: part of the part of the game. That's right now.
[15:45] Speaker 2: It's always been there, but because social media has got
[15:49] Speaker 2: the news at our fingertips twenty four hours a day,
[15:51] Speaker 2: and you know, we all are guilty of doom scrolling
[15:54] Speaker 2: and on the you know, you have five minute break,
[15:57] Speaker 2: you're on the phone. I mean, when we grew up,
[15:58] Speaker 2: you would have got the news maybe either the six
[16:01] Speaker 2: pm at night, six PMS morning, yeah, yeah, at the
[16:04] Speaker 2: quarter to eight ABC bulletin in the morning. I mean
[16:06] Speaker 2: you didn't even used to have the Today Show, right,
[16:08] Speaker 2: I mean I always talk about the cartoons. I can
[16:10] Speaker 2: remember watching cartoons on school holiday is thinking that was
[16:12] Speaker 2: a treat. Now there's an entire channel devoted to cartoons.
[16:16] Speaker 2: And even now the kids don't even go and watch
[16:18] Speaker 2: ABC twenty four cartoon channel.
[16:19] Speaker 1: They just go YouTube the YouTube they find them on
[16:22] Speaker 1: the one. Yeah, the devices right.
[16:24] Speaker 2: So I think the fact that news is in our
[16:27] Speaker 2: face all the time is actually polarizing us even more.
[16:32] Speaker 2: And people just tend to get caught up in that ideology.
[16:34] Speaker 2: And that was one of my problems with the With
[16:36] Speaker 2: the Liberal Party, it was always that we had to
[16:39] Speaker 2: labor as bad. We have to bash them over the head,
[16:41] Speaker 2: even when we did things wrong, they did the right thing.
[16:44] Speaker 2: It was always if I didn't say the line because
[16:48] Speaker 2: I thought, you know, labor was doing the right thing
[16:49] Speaker 2: or we were doing the wrong thing. You know, I
[16:51] Speaker 2: would be told to put shut up and get bag really.
[16:54] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. So it's one of the party line.
[16:57] Speaker 2: Well you're a party on one and all in or
[16:59] Speaker 2: step back.
[17:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:00] Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I get that. You know,
[17:03] Speaker 2: in a party you do have to lie to a point.
[17:06] Speaker 2: But when we stopped up holding our own values, so
[17:09] Speaker 2: you know, Angus Taylor, I mean, I've left liberals by
[17:11] Speaker 2: this stage, voted against the tax cut. When one of
[17:14] Speaker 2: my last bills, when Jim Chalmers lowered the tax rate
[17:17] Speaker 2: from sixteen cents to fourteen cents for low income owners,
[17:20] Speaker 2: Angers voted against it. You know, well, Peter was the leader,
[17:23] Speaker 2: but Anger's shadow treasurer. And I just I mean I
[17:26] Speaker 2: said to my liberal ex liberal colleagues at the time,
[17:28] Speaker 2: I said, what are you doing guys? Like Liberal party
[17:31] Speaker 2: believes in lower taxes and you're voting against lower taxes.
[17:34] Speaker 2: You know, like when are you going to This is
[17:36] Speaker 2: your problem. But back to your question about the idealism, Yeah,
[17:40] Speaker 2: it's it's just the constant news feed now and there's
[17:43] Speaker 2: much more political and I think and that's and with
[17:48] Speaker 2: that having entertainment, so it's also in house what I
[17:52] Speaker 2: call in house entertainment, right, so you don't have to
[17:54] Speaker 2: leave home anymore. Back in the old days when we
[17:56] Speaker 2: gre up, you know, as you said, we had one
[17:57] Speaker 2: or two channels and the radios. So you get bored,
[18:00] Speaker 2: you'd have to go out and actually join groups of people.
[18:03] Speaker 2: You know, it didn't necessarily have to be political groups.
[18:05] Speaker 2: It could be sporting organizations, volunteer groups, you know, community groups, whatever.
[18:11] Speaker 2: People don't need to do that anymore because they're at home.
[18:13] Speaker 2: You don't have to need to leave home. You can
[18:15] Speaker 2: order uber, you can order ice cream to your house,
[18:18] Speaker 2: you can order cold steahouse, so you can technically stay
[18:20] Speaker 2: there forever. So but people then become more and more
[18:24] Speaker 2: narrow focused, right, And of course when you're on social media,
[18:27] Speaker 2: and I'm guilty of this as well. You know you're
[18:29] Speaker 2: not as polite to people, you know, to an avatar
[18:31] Speaker 2: or someone hiding between it behind an avatar, then what
[18:34] Speaker 2: you are to you know, if you're speaking face to face,
[18:37] Speaker 2: you know, your mannerisms drop.
[18:39] Speaker 1: So yeah, it's definitely. And also the algorithms feeding your
[18:44] Speaker 1: your what you what you like, absolutely so you're never
[18:47] Speaker 1: actually getting another point of view. Yeah. Yeah. And because
[18:50] Speaker 1: because I've often wondered about this when it comes to politics,
[18:53] Speaker 1: particularly the politicians of today. And let's look at the
[18:56] Speaker 1: Labor Party from moment Legal Anthony Albanezi, the Prime Minister.
[19:00] Speaker 1: Do you think that politicians are driving the division or
[19:07] Speaker 1: is social media driving the division? But the politicians are
[19:11] Speaker 1: using social media to their advantage and therefore playing into it,
[19:15] Speaker 1: like social media has become part of the politician's playbook,
[19:18] Speaker 1: into the getting re elected. It's always about it seems
[19:21] Speaker 1: to me, it's always about getting re elected today over
[19:24] Speaker 1: and above everything else. That's correct, absolutely.
[19:26] Speaker 2: I mean when I took a stand on the vaccines,
[19:28] Speaker 2: for example, that was what I was told Jared, you
[19:30] Speaker 2: don't worry about you're injured. We've got to get within
[19:33] Speaker 2: the next election. I really, I've got people. Yeah, I've
[19:35] Speaker 2: got people here that are having art attacks, you know,
[19:37] Speaker 2: coughing up blood, you know, having my card idis, etc.
[19:40] Speaker 2: We need to give these people.
[19:41] Speaker 1: I don't know, some we've got paralleled some of the
[19:42] Speaker 1: waist out. Yeah, oh yeah.
[19:44] Speaker 2: I mean I had three years of this, like just
[19:46] Speaker 2: unstoppable injuries, you know, And I mean I'd ever signed
[19:49] Speaker 2: up for this, right, But at the same time, that's
[19:51] Speaker 2: something I couldn't walk past. I mean, it's one thing
[19:53] Speaker 2: sometimes you let it go through to keep it. You know,
[19:55] Speaker 2: you might vote with the party and they don't agree
[19:56] Speaker 2: with it because you realize you can't rock the boat
[19:59] Speaker 2: all the time, right, But this was something I couldn't
[20:02] Speaker 2: walk past.
[20:03] Speaker 1: But no, you're right.
[20:04] Speaker 2: But look, in answer to your initial question, I think
[20:06] Speaker 2: they feed each other, you know, so social media reinforces
[20:09] Speaker 2: politicians views. Politicians then reinforce the views that they think
[20:13] Speaker 2: are going to get them elected. I mean, I'm in
[20:15] Speaker 2: this quandary now that you know, if I criticize Pauline handsOn,
[20:19] Speaker 2: I just get smashed, right, And even I have things
[20:21] Speaker 2: like not turning up to estimates which to means is
[20:23] Speaker 2: valid criticism. But her followers or just smashed me. A
[20:26] Speaker 2: lot of them followed myself as well. But this is
[20:29] Speaker 2: where I step off the train again. Like I did
[20:31] Speaker 2: with a liberal party, I'm going to put what's right
[20:34] Speaker 2: in front of what's in the best interests of the party.
[20:36] Speaker 2: That's why I actually call the party people first, as
[20:38] Speaker 2: opposed to party instead of party first. That's where I
[20:41] Speaker 2: got the name from because I used to say to
[20:43] Speaker 2: my staff, you know, can we just put the people
[20:45] Speaker 2: first and do the right thing by the people and
[20:47] Speaker 2: they'll look after us rather than try and lie to
[20:49] Speaker 2: them all the time.
[20:50] Speaker 1: But you did find them. Is that a little not naive?
[20:53] Speaker 1: But in terms of being voted in, that is because
[20:57] Speaker 1: you're going to get voted in order to do the
[20:59] Speaker 1: things that you want to do for the people that
[21:01] Speaker 1: you think the people what you do do for them.
[21:03] Speaker 1: But in order to get voted in, what comes first?
[21:06] Speaker 1: Does the people always come first? Or do sometimes you
[21:08] Speaker 1: know better? I mean, you know, because like the current
[21:11] Speaker 1: federal gum they think they know better and everything. Yeah yeah,
[21:14] Speaker 1: do they just say hand us everything and we'll sort
[21:17] Speaker 1: out for well. So yet again this comes down to
[21:20] Speaker 1: the ability of it being able to explain your position.
[21:22] Speaker 1: So if you're going to explain your position and try
[21:26] Speaker 1: and demonstrate why your position is going to help the people,
[21:30] Speaker 1: and I think they will come with you. But you're right,
[21:32] Speaker 1: like it is a bit of yet again. I mean,
[21:34] Speaker 1: you know, if you go to purannical, you'll never get
[21:38] Speaker 1: elected at all, I guess even though yet again, I mean,
[21:41] Speaker 1: you know, one of our policies is the tax re
[21:43] Speaker 1: threshold of forty five thousand dollars so that all workers
[21:45] Speaker 1: can pay four thousand dollars less tax. There's fourteen million
[21:48] Speaker 1: workers in this country, three million retire reason, three million
[21:51] Speaker 1: small business, right, And that's a good policy. And the
[21:54] Speaker 1: reason why we're back in is Treasury don't model secondary impacts.
[21:58] Speaker 1: So you understand losty of money. Right.
[22:01] Speaker 2: They assume me to give someone a thousand dollars tax cut,
[22:03] Speaker 2: that that money's not coming back to treasury in the
[22:05] Speaker 2: next twelve months. So that to me is erroneous. I
[22:09] Speaker 2: would argue that if you give a tax cut someone
[22:11] Speaker 2: a low income that most of that money is going
[22:13] Speaker 2: to go back to treasury in the first month, and
[22:15] Speaker 2: it's going to have a higher velocity at the lower
[22:17] Speaker 2: income levels, and at the higher income levels. So yeah,
[22:20] Speaker 2: if you're on a million bucks and you get a
[22:21] Speaker 2: five thousand dollars tax cut, you might just go on
[22:23] Speaker 2: a longer overseas holiday. But if you're on forty grand
[22:25] Speaker 2: and you get a two thousand dollars tax cut, you're
[22:28] Speaker 2: going to spend that economy, especially when cost of living
[22:30] Speaker 2: is running at five percent, inflation running at five percent.
[22:33] Speaker 2: So yet again, I think if you can demonstrate why
[22:36] Speaker 2: your policies are in the best interest of the people,
[22:38] Speaker 2: you will get elected. Obviously, you need the media exposure,
[22:42] Speaker 2: I would say initially in Howard's early years, he wasn't
[22:45] Speaker 2: necessarily trying to He was initially a politician of conviction,
[22:51] Speaker 2: and you know, it took him a long time to
[22:54] Speaker 2: get there. He had the eighties and the battles with
[22:56] Speaker 2: Peacock in the eighties, But when he came back in
[22:58] Speaker 2: ninety five ninety six, he was seen as sort of
[23:00] Speaker 2: a stabilizing influence after keating the last few years. So
[23:04] Speaker 2: I think you can get there. But yet again, it
[23:05] Speaker 2: is hard in this day and age to put out
[23:08] Speaker 2: a rational set of policies when there's all of the
[23:12] Speaker 2: red meat out there on social media. And the short,
[23:14] Speaker 2: the short you know what you call the twenty four
[23:17] Speaker 2: hour news cycle, and just that Barnaby and his dog barking,
[23:21] Speaker 2: for example. Yeah, okay, it's a news story, but really,
[23:24] Speaker 2: you know, it's can we move on to something more important?
[23:26] Speaker 1: Well? What was important about that? Whether it was Sarah
[23:29] Speaker 1: Sarah or the way she dealt with him, right, but
[23:31] Speaker 1: the obeus who deal with him. I mean, I mean
[23:33] Speaker 1: I thought to myself that was the most important thing
[23:35] Speaker 1: of the whole the whole episode of the dog barking,
[23:39] Speaker 1: et cetera. I don't come in what he yelled out,
[23:42] Speaker 1: shut up, or sit down on some of that, but
[23:45] Speaker 1: the way Sarah said to him, well, don't worry about
[23:47] Speaker 1: the just answer the question. Yeah, And I thought his
[23:50] Speaker 1: response for me, I keep thinking about what were Trump
[23:54] Speaker 1: said if someone said that to him, Yeah, he'd been
[23:57] Speaker 1: he would have given it back. Yeah, yeah, but I thought,
[24:00] Speaker 1: actually Barnaby didn't give it back. I thought Barnet was
[24:02] Speaker 1: actually very polite to it. Yeah, he gave her an
[24:04] Speaker 1: opportunity and he had it seemed to be front page
[24:07] Speaker 1: of everything. What do you think about those you know,
[24:11] Speaker 1: the ABC, because I mean, well, ye, look, they've got
[24:15] Speaker 1: a left wing bias, there's no doubt about it. But
[24:18] Speaker 1: it's more than a bias. So I think Dured like
[24:21] Speaker 1: it's it's like they go after him. Oh yeah.
[24:24] Speaker 2: But yet again, we had an opportunity when I was
[24:27] Speaker 2: in the Morrison government. Just start to January, the twenty
[24:30] Speaker 2: six first week back. It was twenty one or twenty two,
[24:32] Speaker 2: I can't remember what year, must have been twenty or
[24:34] Speaker 2: twenty one actually, and you know the ABC was pushing
[24:38] Speaker 2: calling an invasion day, like blatantly calling a straight a
[24:41] Speaker 2: day invasion day. I went back said, right, here's our opportunity.
[24:45] Speaker 2: We can remove the independence of the ABC. So the
[24:48] Speaker 2: issue with the ABC is is that it's completely independent,
[24:52] Speaker 2: like too many bureaucracies. Now they've become independent under the
[24:55] Speaker 2: guys that oh well you can't have politicians interfering with them,
[24:58] Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. The problem with that is, of course,
[25:01] Speaker 2: once they've become independent, there's no accountability in transparency. They've
[25:04] Speaker 2: become a force un to themselves. I tried to get
[25:07] Speaker 2: that moved in the party room. I said, let's say, look,
[25:10] Speaker 2: we're not going to have our national broadcast the calling
[25:11] Speaker 2: Australia Day are invasion day right, and we could have
[25:14] Speaker 2: wedged the cross bench team in the Senate there were
[25:18] Speaker 2: five at the time, the two one nation senators Jackie Lamby,
[25:21] Speaker 2: Rex Patrick and Sterling Griff. We would have only had
[25:26] Speaker 2: to get one of the three non one nation senators
[25:28] Speaker 2: up and we didn't do anything about it. So yet
[25:31] Speaker 2: again the ABC run ramp has run rampant because when
[25:35] Speaker 2: we were in power, we didn't do anything about stopping them.
[25:37] Speaker 2: And this is the problem with the Coalition is that
[25:40] Speaker 2: they have empowered the left over the last thirty or
[25:43] Speaker 2: forty years. They've supported superannuation, they've supported all the institutional
[25:49] Speaker 2: child care facilities rather than paying parents giving their parents
[25:53] Speaker 2: greater choice over the top of child care. They want
[25:56] Speaker 2: John Howard who signed the Renewable Energy Target initially at
[25:58] Speaker 2: five percent. He brought it in a national curriculum. He
[26:01] Speaker 2: got rid of nuclear power. So yeah, everyone's frustrated with
[26:06] Speaker 2: the ABC.
[26:07] Speaker 1: I get it.
[26:07] Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you've got to
[26:09] Speaker 2: work within the machinery government if you want to change it.
[26:12] Speaker 2: And going back to John Howard, if you read his biography,
[26:15] Speaker 2: he learned when he think it was the seventy three
[26:16] Speaker 2: Beal Main campaign when he first ran. He said his
[26:19] Speaker 2: labor upon killed him with kindness. And if there's something
[26:23] Speaker 2: I think that we need to do, if the Conservatives
[26:25] Speaker 2: want to or the Coalition want to become a better
[26:28] Speaker 2: form of opposition and better politicians, is actually learn how
[26:32] Speaker 2: to bring people along through the art of persuasion rather
[26:35] Speaker 2: than constantly harping on about problems. They are just so
[26:38] Speaker 2: painful to listen to these days. I was just saying,
[26:41] Speaker 2: you know, saying it to your stuff outside before you know,
[26:44] Speaker 2: I'm sick of myself winging on social media. And that's
[26:46] Speaker 2: the thing we want to We want to actually certainly
[26:50] Speaker 2: people first and know were just a little party, but
[26:52] Speaker 2: we want to actually present a vision and start to
[26:53] Speaker 2: give people some hope again, because there is way too
[26:56] Speaker 2: much pessimism in this country and we are such a
[26:58] Speaker 2: great country, have so much opportunity. I mean, we've got
[27:01] Speaker 2: seven million square kilometers of land in a perfect part
[27:05] Speaker 2: of paradise in the South Pacific where twenty eight million people.
[27:08] Speaker 2: Biggest city in the world, you Carda's got forty two
[27:10] Speaker 2: million people in it, and we're complaining about over population here. Granted,
[27:15] Speaker 2: you know that is true to a degree, but there's
[27:17] Speaker 2: also other places of Australia. But there's a lot of opportunity.
[27:20] Speaker 2: And so yet back to your initial question, Yes, the
[27:24] Speaker 2: ABC's wrong. It will certainly has a bias to it,
[27:28] Speaker 2: but let's fix it. So yet again, I don't want
[27:30] Speaker 2: to do what we did to manufacturing, where we walk
[27:31] Speaker 2: away from the problem. Let's go back and fix it.
[27:34] Speaker 2: Because I grew up watching four Corners, I grew up
[27:36] Speaker 2: watching Foreign Correspondent. So my father, you know, he's described
[27:39] Speaker 2: es further right until the Hut. He listens to the
[27:41] Speaker 2: Country Hour every day religiously.
[27:43] Speaker 1: I love it still.
[27:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so there's still some magnificent programs on the ABC.
[27:47] Speaker 2: It is a part of our culture. Rather than just
[27:50] Speaker 2: bash it over thehead and complain, you know, let's try
[27:53] Speaker 2: and get in there and try and actually improve it.
[27:55] Speaker 2: So it represents all of Australians, I mean Australia all over.
[27:58] Speaker 2: Ian Macamara another legend, yeah, you know, one of the
[28:01] Speaker 2: gravery Sunday morning absolute six am. Yeah, yeah, I mean
[28:04] Speaker 2: my dad when I lived in Sydney, he was down
[28:06] Speaker 2: here one time. Macka had him on here and he's
[28:08] Speaker 2: had him on a couple of other times, you know.
[28:10] Speaker 2: So yet again, this is something that we should cherish
[28:13] Speaker 2: and instead of just wanting to, you know, pour fuel
[28:16] Speaker 2: on it, blow it up, let's try and actually make
[28:18] Speaker 2: it the great institution that we know it can be.
[28:22] Speaker 1: I guess so. But you made an interesting point because
[28:25] Speaker 1: I remember were sitting down with marka Bid once and
[28:28] Speaker 1: asking Senator Mark A. Bee will form of some of
[28:30] Speaker 1: that marko, you know, and asking him, you know, if
[28:34] Speaker 1: you're going to form a new political party, not if
[28:38] Speaker 1: it was if just anybody was just a conversation, what
[28:40] Speaker 1: do you need to do? And he said to me
[28:43] Speaker 1: he probably need to sit down and work out five
[28:46] Speaker 1: or six policies. Yep, you know. It could be about tax,
[28:49] Speaker 1: could be about immigration or whatever. Yeah, but five or
[28:52] Speaker 1: six and you need how you need to know how
[28:54] Speaker 1: to express that, et cetera, et cetera. But you must
[28:57] Speaker 1: need those five or six. Let's have a look at
[28:59] Speaker 1: people first, your party. Yeah, you're not expecting to win
[29:03] Speaker 1: an election. You were expecting to be part of an
[29:05] Speaker 1: opposition perhaps or alternately part of a coalition. So let's
[29:09] Speaker 1: call it.
[29:09] Speaker 2: Well, hopefully we can get some senators up and influenced decision.
[29:13] Speaker 1: Make in this way. Yeah, and that's because of our
[29:17] Speaker 1: system the Senate actually has the eldom say at the
[29:19] Speaker 1: end of the.
[29:20] Speaker 2: Day, and it's based on proportional voting and that was
[29:22] Speaker 2: deliberately set up by a founding fathers to give minor
[29:24] Speaker 2: parties and get the minor parties to hold the majors
[29:27] Speaker 2: to account.
[29:27] Speaker 1: So what what? What am I correcting? What boy am
[29:31] Speaker 1: I correcting? What a Marke retelling the story about? What? Mark?
[29:34] Speaker 1: Bib Tommy? And if so, what are people? First? Five?
[29:38] Speaker 1: Six things?
[29:39] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad you asked that because we have got
[29:41] Speaker 2: we've got a slogan the Vision, Solutions for today and
[29:43] Speaker 2: the Vision for tomorrow, and that is based on five
[29:45] Speaker 2: key policy.
[29:47] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[29:47] Speaker 2: So first one is looked the tax TREA threshold, the
[29:49] Speaker 2: forty five thousand dollars, so everyone pays four thousand dollars
[29:52] Speaker 2: less in tax yep. The second and we'll pay for
[29:54] Speaker 2: that by means testing to de find benefits scheme for
[29:56] Speaker 2: a tired bureaucrats in Canberra, getting rid of subsidies for
[29:59] Speaker 2: renewables and a couple of other sections of.
[30:01] Speaker 1: The Tax Act. Okay, so it's funded. Yeah, it's five
[30:04] Speaker 1: funded by you said. The way you funded funded it
[30:07] Speaker 1: is by taking money, spend in other places. Yep, So
[30:10] Speaker 1: do these words, these two things neutralize them. So, but
[30:13] Speaker 1: why why if someone's earning forty four, nine hundred and
[30:17] Speaker 1: nine hundred dollars, why do you think they should have
[30:20] Speaker 1: not pay any tax? Well, what's the what's the thing.
[30:22] Speaker 2: Because we don't think people should pay tax below the
[30:24] Speaker 2: cost of living. Listen, if you're getting out of bed
[30:26] Speaker 2: and put your nose to the grindstone, and you know
[30:28] Speaker 2: the words of our anthem is wealth for wealth for toil.
[30:31] Speaker 2: Why would someone earn forty five thousand dollars to day
[30:33] Speaker 2: four grand tax one most six in super their taking
[30:36] Speaker 2: pays back to thirty five thousand dollars. We don't want
[30:38] Speaker 2: these people falling beneath the cracks. And you know, we
[30:41] Speaker 2: both grew up, you know, back in the time when
[30:43] Speaker 2: we had more tradees than professional workers. Let me tell
[30:46] Speaker 2: you, you could probably sack seventy five per cent of professional
[30:48] Speaker 2: workers in this country and you wouldn't miss them. But
[30:50] Speaker 2: if you got rid of our guys on those low incomes,
[30:52] Speaker 2: you know, the wheels of this country, it'd stopped turning
[30:54] Speaker 2: over very fast. And I'm very determined. So my grandparents
[30:58] Speaker 2: are all blue collar label he sort of came over
[31:00] Speaker 2: the dlping the late fifties, but you know, I grew
[31:03] Speaker 2: up with tradees mechanics. Now my best mates. They're still
[31:06] Speaker 2: my best mates, and I know the important work they do.
[31:08] Speaker 2: And I want to make sure that everyone that gets
[31:10] Speaker 2: out of bed puts their nose to grindstone is properly rewarded.
[31:13] Speaker 2: And I think it's completely immoral. And businesses get a
[31:15] Speaker 2: tax duction for the cost of business, right, I think
[31:18] Speaker 2: workers should get a tax duction for the cost of living.
[31:20] Speaker 2: You know, it's if you've got a job, it does
[31:22] Speaker 2: cost you more. You've got to fill your car up
[31:24] Speaker 2: every week, or buy a ticket on the train. You
[31:27] Speaker 2: might have to get work clothes, you might have to
[31:28] Speaker 2: get a suit. You know the girls. You know my
[31:30] Speaker 2: wife and she has you get a haircut. For a
[31:33] Speaker 2: female to get a haircut today, it's a couple hundred bucks.
[31:35] Speaker 2: You know, it's outrageous.
[31:37] Speaker 1: So what you're saying, Joe, though, is for the if
[31:41] Speaker 1: you're un forty five thousand, because that's less than a
[31:46] Speaker 1: thousand bucks a week, it's going to cost you at
[31:47] Speaker 1: least that in cost of living just to live, just
[31:50] Speaker 1: to exist. Yeah, it's not holidays. I was sending keep
[31:53] Speaker 1: schools basic or kids off to ballet whatever. That's just
[31:56] Speaker 1: living maybe, and just a very basic food and stuff
[32:00] Speaker 1: that you're saying, effectively, they shouldn't have to pay tax
[32:02] Speaker 1: because they should otherwise are going to be They're going
[32:05] Speaker 1: to be needed. That's right exactly.
[32:07] Speaker 2: But don't forget they pay tax for GST fuel exercise, Yeah,
[32:10] Speaker 2: buy beer.
[32:11] Speaker 1: Beer, pay consumption tax. Yeah, yeah, they do pay consumption
[32:15] Speaker 1: to see right, they are paying taxes, just paying tax
[32:17] Speaker 1: on their income because if they did, they wouldn't have
[32:20] Speaker 1: enough money to live. Yeah.
[32:21] Speaker 2: And then the next step, and I mean this, you know,
[32:23] Speaker 2: I won't make any guarantees about this because I think
[32:26] Speaker 2: you need to get into the budget to find where
[32:27] Speaker 2: you can make savings. But we would then like to
[32:29] Speaker 2: lower the thirty cents on incomes above forty five thousand
[32:32] Speaker 2: to one hundred, lower it by two cents every year
[32:35] Speaker 2: for the next fifteen years to get the tax re
[32:37] Speaker 2: threshold up to one hundred grand.
[32:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're going to over time, yeah, bring the
[32:41] Speaker 1: tax free threshold up to one hundred grund. Yeah, over time. Yeah, okay,
[32:45] Speaker 1: that makes sense. And what are super You mentioned super before?
[32:48] Speaker 2: Okay, so that's one of our key policies as well.
[32:50] Speaker 2: We want to make super voluntary so you get to
[32:52] Speaker 2: keep the super innuation as part of your wage. If
[32:54] Speaker 2: you want to do you can make twelve percent more. Exactly,
[32:57] Speaker 2: you'll get twelve percent more in the head for everybody
[32:59] Speaker 2: or people undred certain for everyone. No rules as to
[33:02] Speaker 2: how much importing and takeout. The first twenty five thousand
[33:05] Speaker 2: dollars in your superannuation will be tax free, and then
[33:08] Speaker 2: after that it goes back to your normal marginal tax rates.
[33:11] Speaker 2: I don't think superannuation is doing what it was intended
[33:15] Speaker 2: to do. So in ninety ninety two, approximately fifty percent retires.
[33:18] Speaker 2: You're on a full pension, about twenty six twenty five
[33:21] Speaker 2: per cent retirees or on a part pension. If you
[33:24] Speaker 2: google ASFA superannuation statistics a straining superhanneration Financial Association Statistics,
[33:30] Speaker 2: you will see the median balance for women age sixty
[33:32] Speaker 2: to sixty four is one hundred and sixty two thousand dollars,
[33:36] Speaker 2: So that means half the women age sixty to sixty
[33:39] Speaker 2: four have less than one hundred and sixty two thousand
[33:41] Speaker 2: dollars in the bank. For man, it's two hundred and
[33:43] Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars. To go off the full pension, you
[33:46] Speaker 2: need three hundred sorry, off the full pension. On a
[33:49] Speaker 2: part pension, you need about three hundred and twenty thousand
[33:51] Speaker 2: in assets, and to go off the full pension entirely
[33:54] Speaker 2: you need about eight to nine hundred thousand dollars in assets.
[33:56] Speaker 1: Right.
[33:57] Speaker 2: So, admittedly souper is not fully matured yet, it's thirty
[34:00] Speaker 2: four years old, but it's statistically impossible for low income
[34:04] Speaker 2: earners if you're going to take twelve percent of their
[34:07] Speaker 2: salary for them to put enough in the souper to
[34:10] Speaker 2: actually be able to retire on that amount. Now, bear
[34:14] Speaker 2: in mind that since ninety ninety two, ten percent of
[34:16] Speaker 2: people retired with a mortgage, state it's forty percent, right,
[34:19] Speaker 2: And bear in mind the median salary in this country
[34:22] Speaker 2: it's eighty two thousand. I'm just going to use eighty thousand.
[34:25] Speaker 2: If you're on eighty thousand, you need fifty grand to
[34:27] Speaker 2: live on twenty grand tax, you're left with ten thousand
[34:29] Speaker 2: dollars to save. Twelve percent of eighty thousand dollars is
[34:33] Speaker 2: nine thousand, six hundred. So for anyone on a median salary,
[34:36] Speaker 2: you're literally taking their last one hundred percent of their savings,
[34:40] Speaker 2: and you're going to put it and give it to
[34:42] Speaker 2: some bloke and an ivory palace somewhere in a capital city,
[34:44] Speaker 2: and there's no guarantee you're going to get that money
[34:46] Speaker 2: back when you're sixty seven. Now, if you're starting off
[34:49] Speaker 2: working first five years of your life, say you're on
[34:51] Speaker 2: a median salary, you can earn fifty thousand dollars, right yep.
[34:55] Speaker 2: The people that support super will go, oh, yeah, Jared,
[34:57] Speaker 2: you know, but you're going to earn six or seven
[34:58] Speaker 2: percent in super. That's great. But if you can't use
[35:01] Speaker 2: that as a deposit for your house, and the median
[35:03] Speaker 2: house price is a million bucks and it's rising by
[35:06] Speaker 2: five percent a year, your opportunity cost is fifty thousand
[35:10] Speaker 2: bucks because house prices a rising faster than you can save.
[35:13] Speaker 2: So it's a false economy that way. And don't forget
[35:15] Speaker 2: if your mortgage is six percent, that's after tax income
[35:18] Speaker 2: you've got to pay with that. So let's say earn
[35:21] Speaker 2: one hundred grand and earn ten grand in your own
[35:22] Speaker 2: name in investment income. Then you've got to get a
[35:26] Speaker 2: ten percent return, pay thirty cents on that to get
[35:28] Speaker 2: a seven percent return plus one percent management fee just
[35:31] Speaker 2: to actually make your mortgage meet. So yet again you
[35:34] Speaker 2: need to generate ten percent on your investment income outside
[35:37] Speaker 2: of super to make up for the lost like to
[35:41] Speaker 2: get that six percent halfter tax return that you do
[35:43] Speaker 2: in SUPER. So yet again your mortgage. It's harder to
[35:46] Speaker 2: pay your mortgage off because of superannuation as well. And
[35:49] Speaker 2: not only that, we've now got four trillion dollars in superneration.
[35:53] Speaker 2: For these people have industry and retail funds. They don't
[35:55] Speaker 2: get the vote for the boards, so there's no corporate
[35:57] Speaker 2: accountability there. So you've now got got three trillion outside
[36:01] Speaker 2: of self managed super funds that are controlled by unelected
[36:04] Speaker 2: board members.
[36:05] Speaker 1: Right.
[36:06] Speaker 2: And if you control three trillion dollars worth of capital,
[36:08] Speaker 2: what do you control the economy?
[36:09] Speaker 1: Yeah? Totally, which by the way, was the original design. Yeah,
[36:13] Speaker 1: that was keeping his design. Yeah.
[36:14] Speaker 2: And so now and so now you've got a corporate
[36:17] Speaker 2: sector driven by audiology not productivity, right, and they're pushing
[36:20] Speaker 2: all these agendas that had nothing to do with productivity.
[36:23] Speaker 2: I actually, I can't believe I'm saying this because I've
[36:25] Speaker 2: got burn a stock market in the late eighties, my
[36:27] Speaker 2: mum first bought chairs in September eighty seven. Can you
[36:29] Speaker 2: believe it? Well, yeah, and because next month they crashed,
[36:32] Speaker 2: so Mum had to work another ten years. She ended
[36:35] Speaker 2: up retiring as nurse when she was seventy. But she
[36:38] Speaker 2: got me into share trading and I didn't know. I
[36:40] Speaker 2: only found this out up she passed away. She used
[36:42] Speaker 2: to be a shared trader, trade shares before she got
[36:44] Speaker 2: married to dad. Way back in the sixties, she had
[36:46] Speaker 2: HP shares. But we need a bit of that entrepreneurial
[36:51] Speaker 2: spirit back. And the probably is today.
[36:53] Speaker 1: No one's going any money. Well, it's the corporate fund managers.
[36:56] Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah. Yet again one of these things. But
[36:59] Speaker 1: again what I was saying before, the government saying we'll
[37:01] Speaker 1: do it for you, yeah, yeah, exactly. We'll take your
[37:04] Speaker 1: money now, yeah, and we're going to invest it for you,
[37:06] Speaker 1: yeah exactly, because you're dumb, you don't know how to do it,
[37:09] Speaker 1: which sort of in some cases probably is true. People
[37:12] Speaker 1: will gamble it. But this is another example of ideology
[37:16] Speaker 1: telling you what you can do with your money.
[37:18] Speaker 2: Acts exactly, that's exactly right. Yeah, and we're better out
[37:21] Speaker 2: of than you exactly. And what you get now these
[37:23] Speaker 2: corporate fund managers. They all basically just follow the indexes.
[37:27] Speaker 2: There's very little entrepreneurialship going on. And I think the
[37:30] Speaker 2: I'll THEND to be corrected on this. This might have
[37:32] Speaker 2: been about a year old when I read this article.
[37:34] Speaker 2: The number of listings on the AXX is declining. They're
[37:37] Speaker 2: really struggling to get new listings.
[37:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, that is one hundred percent correct. Yeah, because there's
[37:42] Speaker 1: a punish, Yeah exactly. It's hard work. Yeah.
[37:45] Speaker 2: But as someone who's a small investor, I hate the
[37:48] Speaker 2: fifteen percent accelerated retail listing offerings. You'll see that all
[37:52] Speaker 2: the time. Just as the company is about to kick off,
[37:55] Speaker 2: they'll raise more take off. When I'll say kick off,
[37:57] Speaker 2: I mean take off in terms of making money. The
[38:00] Speaker 2: issue fifteen percent of new shares every years to their
[38:02] Speaker 2: mates at a diluted price, and you're like, oh, here
[38:06] Speaker 2: we go again. You know, like they should go back
[38:08] Speaker 2: to the pro rata way of like if you ain't
[38:10] Speaker 2: five percent of the company, you get five percent of
[38:12] Speaker 2: the new issues, you know, so your equity is not diluted.
[38:15] Speaker 2: But yet again that's just a big boys club between
[38:18] Speaker 2: the corporate fund managers. As you know, the industry funds
[38:21] Speaker 2: use run Proxy Advisor combined voting powers around twenty percent.
[38:27] Speaker 2: So yet again, you control twenty percent of the shares
[38:29] Speaker 2: on the ax an AX listed company. You get to
[38:32] Speaker 2: push the left wing ideology you push.
[38:34] Speaker 1: You change the board or the board is so scared
[38:37] Speaker 1: of being demoted or taken off the board that they'll
[38:41] Speaker 1: do everything you want. That's exactly right, even if it
[38:43] Speaker 1: means not doing something on a straight to day or yep,
[38:48] Speaker 1: or flying three flags yeah, whatever the case may be. Yep,
[38:52] Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, yep. And so people first, so we're
[38:57] Speaker 1: talking about lower tacks rate you want to bring. You
[38:59] Speaker 1: want to bring the three threshold of forty five and
[39:01] Speaker 1: over time to one hundred. You mentioned super superminiation. You're saying,
[39:07] Speaker 1: is it voluntary for everybody? Or you get to keep?
[39:09] Speaker 2: But if everyone yeah, you get to keep, and people
[39:12] Speaker 2: will say not everyone can save their own retirement. You're right,
[39:14] Speaker 2: you know what, that's what the pension's for. But yet again,
[39:17] Speaker 2: you know the tax breaks for superannuation. The last budget
[39:19] Speaker 2: sixty billion dollars. The Productivity Commission back in twenty nineteen
[39:24] Speaker 2: twenty estimated the cost of running super was one percent
[39:27] Speaker 2: of funds under management, So one percent of four trillion
[39:29] Speaker 2: is about forty billion. Again, massive cost in financial engineering
[39:33] Speaker 2: and paper shuffling doesn't produce a cent more. We need
[39:37] Speaker 2: more real engineers in this country, not pay for financial engineers.
[39:40] Speaker 2: So that's our second policy. Our third policy is to
[39:43] Speaker 2: pay trialcare directly to the parents, subject to welfare testing.
[39:46] Speaker 1: So what does that mean? So the same in relation
[39:49] Speaker 1: to my kids. They send the kids a childcare before preschool,
[39:54] Speaker 1: you pay them, will you pay them? Yep?
[39:57] Speaker 2: And if they want to pay trial care, they can
[39:59] Speaker 2: use child care. But you've got millions of shift workers
[40:01] Speaker 2: in this country that can't access childcare at all. So
[40:03] Speaker 2: you've got nurses who work shift work, police who work
[40:06] Speaker 2: shift work, fiery hospitality workers. I've got a mate who
[40:10] Speaker 2: plays in a band with his wife on weekends. He
[40:13] Speaker 2: can't get his parent on week parents, their parents on
[40:15] Speaker 2: weekend to look after the kids. Of course, of the
[40:17] Speaker 2: childcare that wipes out the money they make from the gig.
[40:20] Speaker 2: You know, we've got fly and fly out workers that
[40:22] Speaker 2: might pay for you know, be home for seven days
[40:26] Speaker 2: ten days on seven days off. Why pay for child
[40:28] Speaker 2: care then? You know, if you want to just get
[40:30] Speaker 2: an n half the time, do that. You've got people
[40:32] Speaker 2: in regional Australia that can't even access childcare centers, so
[40:36] Speaker 2: they all miss out right. So my view is and
[40:39] Speaker 2: then you've got so if we do that, we give
[40:41] Speaker 2: shift works great a choice over the hours they can work.
[40:43] Speaker 2: So there's great at work choices. There, greater flexibility. But
[40:47] Speaker 2: it's also giving people greater choice in how they parent
[40:49] Speaker 2: their children. So I stayed at home before it became
[40:51] Speaker 2: a senator for a couple of years and I'd go
[40:54] Speaker 2: to mother's group on Tuesday morning and a number of
[40:56] Speaker 2: mothers would had to go back to work because a
[40:59] Speaker 2: financial and straints, but they weren't ready to go back.
[41:02] Speaker 2: You know, they have to go back when I're a
[41:03] Speaker 2: bit older. But while the kids were still two or three,
[41:05] Speaker 2: you know, they preferred to stay at home for a
[41:07] Speaker 2: few more years. So if that bit of money and
[41:09] Speaker 2: we'll top up, what we'll do is we'll top up
[41:11] Speaker 2: Family Part eight benefits can help parents stay at home.
[41:14] Speaker 2: If you want to be a parent, stay home a
[41:16] Speaker 2: little bit longer. That also gives you the option of
[41:18] Speaker 2: doing that, you know, help you get out of the
[41:20] Speaker 2: line at least your kids get to school or something
[41:23] Speaker 2: like that, and that can help pay off the mortgage
[41:24] Speaker 2: or make ends meet so you can spend more time
[41:27] Speaker 2: with their family, because spending time with their children at
[41:29] Speaker 2: that age is so important, you know.
[41:32] Speaker 1: And when you look.
[41:33] Speaker 2: Back, you're not going to go, oh jeez, I'm so
[41:35] Speaker 2: glad I let the kids, you know, childcare center when
[41:37] Speaker 2: I was two years old and went back to working
[41:39] Speaker 2: extra three years earlier, so you know, and.
[41:41] Speaker 1: They should have a choice. They should have a choice,
[41:43] Speaker 1: just like souper. Yeah. In other words, it shouldn't be
[41:45] Speaker 1: again the government saying, look, look handed over, dust will
[41:47] Speaker 1: take ConTroll of all this for you. Yeah. And the
[41:50] Speaker 1: other thing is should I think be honest with every
[41:52] Speaker 1: time childcare centers get more money, Well, they do is
[41:54] Speaker 1: put the price up exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't go
[41:57] Speaker 1: back to any but there's no real beneficiary other than
[41:59] Speaker 1: the people and the joints.
[42:00] Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, that's right. And the union, so the fastest
[42:02] Speaker 2: growing union in Australia's United Voice when Albanize so Albanesi
[42:07] Speaker 2: in the twenty two election had to pay childcare workers
[42:09] Speaker 2: three and a half billion dollars directly if tax payers
[42:12] Speaker 2: money because the childcare centers couldn't afford to pay the
[42:15] Speaker 2: childcare workers. He's now had to renew that again. But
[42:18] Speaker 2: a part of that deal was that childcare workers had
[42:20] Speaker 2: to be unionized. So fourteen dollars a week by fifty
[42:23] Speaker 2: weeks here, seven hundred bucks a year times I'm not
[42:25] Speaker 2: sure if it's two hundred thousand childcare workers. Well even
[42:28] Speaker 2: one hundred thousand, that's seventy million going into union coffers.
[42:31] Speaker 2: Two hundred thousand, it's one hundred and forty million. So
[42:34] Speaker 2: you know, when Labour tells you that, you know they
[42:36] Speaker 2: really want early childhood education, it's all about getting more
[42:40] Speaker 2: money into the union coffers.
[42:42] Speaker 1: And then then the unions that support the government in
[42:45] Speaker 1: terms of the next election.
[42:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you know, let's keep the childcare
[42:50] Speaker 2: industry going. You know, would you get a little route, Well, look,
[42:54] Speaker 2: there's definite childcare needs. We need to get on to
[42:56] Speaker 2: why two parents need to work, and hopefully the time
[42:58] Speaker 2: dates do that so it's not a raw in sense
[43:03] Speaker 2: two parents have to work and I can understand why,
[43:05] Speaker 2: So maybe i'll jump on to that.
[43:07] Speaker 1: You do that, they're out.
[43:08] Speaker 2: So there are three solutions for the day now, our
[43:10] Speaker 2: vision for tomorrow, the next two policies and The first
[43:13] Speaker 2: one is monetary policy. And I'm really glad, I'm really
[43:16] Speaker 2: excited that you yeah, that you invited me down today
[43:19] Speaker 2: because being a next a bank of yourself, you'll appreciate this.
[43:23] Speaker 2: Our monetary policy is the most misunderstood and least discussed
[43:27] Speaker 2: policy of all and it is the most important policy
[43:31] Speaker 2: that we have to fix in this country before anything else.
[43:33] Speaker 1: It drives everything.
[43:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, it drives everything. Capital meant you know this yourself, Mark,
[43:37] Speaker 2: Capital management is king. If there's something we've learned now
[43:40] Speaker 2: that years in finance, you've got to know how to
[43:42] Speaker 2: manage capital. And we've been brainwashed on the difference between
[43:44] Speaker 2: debt and equity. And I'll touch on that in a minute.
[43:47] Speaker 2: But if we go back to why two parents are
[43:49] Speaker 2: having to work today, it goes back to nineteen eighty
[43:51] Speaker 2: five and Paul Keating lifted capital controls the private banks
[43:54] Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five at eight billion dollars in foreign debt.
[43:57] Speaker 2: By two thousand and eight, that eight hundred billion dollars
[44:00] Speaker 2: in foreign debt. That money was leant against housing. It
[44:04] Speaker 2: wasn't so as your name and finance, the net present
[44:06] Speaker 2: the value of an assets and net present value of
[44:08] Speaker 2: future income streams. Right, we went from valuing assets based
[44:11] Speaker 2: on the earnings of an asset to how much money
[44:14] Speaker 2: we could borrow from offshore. Right, so we would brainwash
[44:17] Speaker 2: at the university. You can't put money out of thin air, right, Okay,
[44:20] Speaker 2: Well what we did, We've done something even worse. We've
[44:22] Speaker 2: started borrowing money that was printed out of thin air
[44:24] Speaker 2: by foreign countries. In particular in the late eighties it
[44:26] Speaker 2: was Japan. So what's happened is house prices with that
[44:30] Speaker 2: extra credit and the system have gone from four to
[44:32] Speaker 2: five times earnings to ten to twelve times earnings. So
[44:35] Speaker 2: of course you've had to send two parents back to
[44:37] Speaker 2: work to pay for the mortgage. Hence the creation of
[44:39] Speaker 2: the child care industry in the late nineties, remember Eddie
[44:41] Speaker 2: Groves and cod and then what we saw ABC Learning
[44:45] Speaker 2: and that ended up being a stock market collapse, bubble
[44:49] Speaker 2: and a crash. And then in two thousand and eight
[44:52] Speaker 2: we had the real GFC crash based on irresponsible credit practices.
[44:56] Speaker 2: In a Norton hemisphere. We nearly had the same thing
[44:59] Speaker 2: happened here. A mining boom kept us going. But you know,
[45:02] Speaker 2: you didn't remember storm Financial But one of the ways
[45:05] Speaker 2: that we kept house prices strong here throughout. That was
[45:08] Speaker 2: Kevin right allowed temporary vs A holders i e. Foreign
[45:11] Speaker 2: students to start buying houses in Australia. So that meant
[45:15] Speaker 2: that basically Nana created the foreign student sector as well. Right,
[45:18] Speaker 2: another sector that pumps some money into the economy but
[45:22] Speaker 2: distracts us from other parts of the economy we need
[45:24] Speaker 2: to focus on. So that irresponsible credit practice has basically
[45:28] Speaker 2: from what Keating did in nineteen eighty five of letting
[45:31] Speaker 2: unrestricted capital inflows into this country for consumption. I mean
[45:35] Speaker 2: housing is important, don't get me wrong, but it's ultimately
[45:38] Speaker 2: a consumption tool. Has saw house prices rise to the
[45:41] Speaker 2: roof and then the money that we pay on that
[45:43] Speaker 2: eight hundred billion, the interest that's not even taxed, right,
[45:47] Speaker 2: so you know your parents, we put interest in the bank,
[45:50] Speaker 2: we pay tax on it. The foreign banks don't have
[45:52] Speaker 2: to pay tax on that. I'm not sure if you're
[45:54] Speaker 2: familiar with one twenty eight at for the thirty six
[45:55] Speaker 2: Act the Public Office Tech. Yeah, so as long as
[45:58] Speaker 2: this has probably spread, but of course, yeah, it's got
[46:01] Speaker 2: to be Yeah, it's got to be initial offering in
[46:03] Speaker 2: the public market. Yeah, that's right, in a proper spread.
[46:05] Speaker 2: That's correct. Yeah, So there's a few factors there, but
[46:07] Speaker 2: long story short, it cost the budget about three.
[46:09] Speaker 1: But with hold at tax, there's no hot attacks basically yeah. Yeah,
[46:12] Speaker 1: So on the interest paid to the foreign interitet, that's
[46:14] Speaker 1: exactly right. As long as the initial offering, as long
[46:18] Speaker 1: as the offering initial offering, I should say, as opposed
[46:20] Speaker 1: to the secondary market, Yeah, has enough spread, in other words,
[46:27] Speaker 1: enough participants. If you just have one, one person, like
[46:30] Speaker 1: it's just pimcoat being putting in the eight hundred million
[46:33] Speaker 1: or a billion, that's not enough spread. But what's interesting
[46:36] Speaker 1: matter that though it's interesting jury you should talk about
[46:39] Speaker 1: this because it was kidding who sort of deregulated this process.
[46:44] Speaker 1: And it's an interesting thesis because I never thought about
[46:50] Speaker 1: it like this, but in terms of a couple of mics.
[46:51] Speaker 1: But I never thought about this. But the extra money
[46:54] Speaker 1: coming into Australi because banks probably raised probably fund housing,
[46:58] Speaker 1: maybe future Center's fun through deposits taken here Australia. Money
[47:02] Speaker 1: you might put in a positive, I'd put it in
[47:03] Speaker 1: a positive whatever, which is the way they are the
[47:05] Speaker 1: only way they used to do it before. Now the other
[47:08] Speaker 1: fifty percents coming from somewhere overse the whole Europe, Japan,
[47:13] Speaker 1: in UK, wherever Southeast Asia these days. And but that
[47:20] Speaker 1: that's here to stay. I mean because there was so
[47:23] Speaker 1: much money available. The bank's accessed it and it was
[47:26] Speaker 1: cheap and they could sort of what they could do
[47:28] Speaker 1: is build around it so they could hedge their currency risk,
[47:31] Speaker 1: their pre payment risks, they could head all these risks
[47:32] Speaker 1: associated with it, and they could still get a tuber
[47:35] Speaker 1: then they would have had to pay if they took
[47:37] Speaker 1: it from a depositor who are in Australia. So the
[47:40] Speaker 1: banks are making really good margins and they're therefore will
[47:42] Speaker 1: take the We're desperate, they were desperate to lend it,
[47:46] Speaker 1: so it's not here to stay. If I can help
[47:48] Speaker 1: it and the money is you get them. But all
[47:49] Speaker 1: of a sudden, the money is available to you as
[47:51] Speaker 1: a borrower. Because this has been my thesis all along.
[47:54] Speaker 1: If I can save just let's use a million dollar
[47:58] Speaker 1: purchase price, I can save two hundred thousand dollars deposit,
[48:02] Speaker 1: and the bank says to mell Land, you eight hundred thousand,
[48:04] Speaker 1: and just forget about stamps. You just get that, and
[48:07] Speaker 1: for some reason the property goes up to one point
[48:10] Speaker 1: one million in the bank says, don't worry, Mark, I'll
[48:12] Speaker 1: lend you nine hundred thousand dollars. The borrow is okay,
[48:14] Speaker 1: I'll take it that borrows don't look at it as
[48:18] Speaker 1: I owe nine hundred thousand dollars. They don't look at
[48:20] Speaker 1: it that way. I know this for remind research. They're
[48:23] Speaker 1: just thinking, what's that extra hundred thousand is going to
[48:26] Speaker 1: cost me per month? And it might be two three
[48:28] Speaker 1: hundred bucks. But all that does is push that house
[48:31] Speaker 1: price up because everybody who's buying that house when the
[48:35] Speaker 1: vendor wants one point one, everybody is all borrowing nine
[48:38] Speaker 1: hundred thousand, like the bank will lend it to every bidder. Yeah,
[48:41] Speaker 1: every single person in the room. They don't say, oh wow,
[48:44] Speaker 1: we're borrowing nine hundred thousand dollars for thirty years or
[48:46] Speaker 1: in those days are twenty years, twenty five years, but
[48:48] Speaker 1: thirty years. These days, they're not going to say that.
[48:50] Speaker 1: They're going to say, it's just going to cost us
[48:52] Speaker 1: extra couple hundred bucks a month to live in this
[48:54] Speaker 1: beautiful house. Yeah, so we'll we'll pay one point one.
[48:57] Speaker 1: And that's how house prices get out of control. Yeah, exactly,
[49:00] Speaker 1: that's right, and the problem is if that extra funding.
[49:03] Speaker 1: But here's the thing we need so prior to keyting,
[49:06] Speaker 1: So let's use the million dollars example. So interesting enough,
[49:08] Speaker 1: the CBA is about eighty seven percent funded actually internally,
[49:12] Speaker 1: but they're going to the biggest depositive exactly, that's right. But
[49:14] Speaker 1: we don't have enough depositors, by the way.
[49:16] Speaker 2: So can I do that? Is this is what exactly
[49:18] Speaker 2: want to touch on. So when I was at the
[49:19] Speaker 2: Bank a Quaanslane, for every million we lent, you're right,
[49:21] Speaker 2: like forty percent was deposits, domestic deposits, sixty percent was
[49:25] Speaker 2: international wholesale funding. Now, before Keating had had lifted capital controls,
[49:30] Speaker 2: the most the Bank Acquaenslane could have lamp was four
[49:33] Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars, not a million dollars. Right, So that
[49:35] Speaker 2: automatically means now, as you say, if you're going to
[49:37] Speaker 2: borrow more, sixty percent of that money is now going
[49:40] Speaker 2: to be paid off. Show's interest. Right in the old days,
[49:43] Speaker 2: when all they could land was four hundred thousand dollars,
[49:45] Speaker 2: that was actually a virtuous cycle because what that money
[49:48] Speaker 2: was coming from was the term deposits of the older generation.
[49:51] Speaker 2: They'd land through the bank to the younger generation, and
[49:53] Speaker 2: the younger generation back through the bank would pay back
[49:56] Speaker 2: to the older generation, and that would keep and that
[49:59] Speaker 2: would keep house prices linked to the savings and the
[50:01] Speaker 2: earnings of the prior generation. When Keating lifted those capital
[50:06] Speaker 2: controls and debt went from eight billion to eight hundred
[50:08] Speaker 2: billion foreign debt, we basically decoupled the price of houses
[50:12] Speaker 2: from earnings. And so first, the first generation loved it
[50:14] Speaker 2: right for the first twenty years because they were all
[50:16] Speaker 2: living off the boom of the house prices, and we
[50:18] Speaker 2: saw that here in Sydney. But now the next generation's
[50:21] Speaker 2: coming through and they're paying the price for it because
[50:24] Speaker 2: they're struggling even to get into the housing larn has
[50:26] Speaker 2: never kept up. That's exactly right, And so complimenting Keating
[50:30] Speaker 2: lifting capital controls of John Button getting rid of the
[50:34] Speaker 2: tariffs on manufacturing, whereby we let manufacturing go offshore. Now,
[50:38] Speaker 2: there's no doubt that we did struggle to compete with
[50:40] Speaker 2: Asian labor at the time, but the problem was we
[50:43] Speaker 2: did lose earnings capacity when we did that by letting
[50:46] Speaker 2: our manufacturing go off shore. And there's a fantastic opportunity
[50:50] Speaker 2: right now that no politician other than an ex politician
[50:54] Speaker 2: sitting here, Like most factories today are automated. You know
[50:57] Speaker 2: the argument that we can no longer compete with offshore
[50:59] Speaker 2: life because costs. Yeah, because the costs right. So you know,
[51:03] Speaker 2: when we export iron ore and cocing coal, we should
[51:06] Speaker 2: be parking that at Darwin in a steel factory. They're
[51:08] Speaker 2: turning it into brisket steel. And instead of exporting coal
[51:12] Speaker 2: a one hundred dollars a ton exported at five hundred
[51:14] Speaker 2: dollars a time for brisket steel. Now, we might bring
[51:16] Speaker 2: a lot of jobs back on toour but we can
[51:18] Speaker 2: capture more upside and tax that to start paying for
[51:21] Speaker 2: all those extra services we're going to need as the
[51:23] Speaker 2: population ages.
[51:24] Speaker 1: Because everything is robotically control these days.
[51:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, not just in steel factories, a lot of stuff.
[51:29] Speaker 2: And if we can get nuclear here and get more
[51:31] Speaker 2: base load energy and drive down the cost of energy,
[51:34] Speaker 2: bring back stamp duty on shared trading to abolish payroll tax.
[51:37] Speaker 2: Another big mistake. When the GST was brought in, we
[51:39] Speaker 2: got rid of stamp duty on shared trading. So fifty
[51:44] Speaker 2: six percent of fifty to sixty percent of the stock
[51:46] Speaker 2: market now is traded by foreign bots, right, who just
[51:49] Speaker 2: scalped the market. So we should be starting hitting them,
[51:51] Speaker 2: hitting them with stamp duty really yeah, absolutely, well yeah,
[51:55] Speaker 2: and then getting rid of payroll tacks they have attack,
[51:57] Speaker 2: get rid of the tax on productivity and reply with
[52:00] Speaker 2: a tax.
[52:00] Speaker 1: Did you see payroll tax is a tax on productivity? Oh? Absolutely, yeah,
[52:03] Speaker 1: it's a shocking tax man John Howard. If you remember
[52:06] Speaker 1: John introduced it in the jest, he said, we got
[52:11] Speaker 1: the design here was to give it a stame duty
[52:12] Speaker 1: and payroll tax. That's correct. Yeah, but I don't think
[52:15] Speaker 1: they have a raised enough. They just didn't raise enough.
[52:17] Speaker 1: So do you think there's an argument then, for example,
[52:20] Speaker 1: in relation to your party, to increase the couple of
[52:23] Speaker 1: the jest?
[52:25] Speaker 2: No no interest in raising jest. If anything, I would
[52:27] Speaker 2: abolish it and just bring in one percent transaction tax
[52:30] Speaker 2: on financial transactions because it used to.
[52:32] Speaker 1: Be six cents every hundred dollars or something.
[52:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was something like that, but same duty. I'm
[52:38] Speaker 2: too abount of share training, yeah yeah, because when I
[52:40] Speaker 2: started buying shares in the late eighties, we used to
[52:41] Speaker 2: pay steam. Yeah, I remember doing do the same and
[52:44] Speaker 2: everywhere except Northern Territory.
[52:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, right, okay, because I remember a lot of share
[52:49] Speaker 1: transfers used to get executed the nord Territory. Yeah, okay,
[52:52] Speaker 1: the firm I was that anyway, Yeah, yeah, courel Yeah,
[52:54] Speaker 1: because it didn't have it. But yeah, but so, but
[52:57] Speaker 1: that's interesting. So you you would abolish pay or tax
[53:00] Speaker 1: the states and give the states the power to know we.
[53:05] Speaker 2: Tax it nationally and get distribute to them, get back
[53:07] Speaker 2: to them. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, And likewise, we want
[53:10] Speaker 2: to bring back national government insurance office like the old
[53:12] Speaker 2: insurance offices. If you run a national corporation today, you
[53:15] Speaker 2: have to take out workers compensation in six different states.
[53:19] Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's crazy. Well I do that in my
[53:22] Speaker 1: business now. Yeah.
[53:23] Speaker 2: Right, So let's just have a one stop shop for
[53:25] Speaker 2: national government insurance. Fifty percent of insurance now is reinsurance
[53:29] Speaker 2: paid off. Sure, we should just reinsure ourselves and the
[53:32] Speaker 2: federal guvernment can do a QB in sun corporate all
[53:34] Speaker 2: that as well, and we can lower the cost of
[53:36] Speaker 2: insurance as well. So let's get rid of payroll tax,
[53:38] Speaker 2: let's standardized workers compensation. Let's lower the cost of insurance
[53:42] Speaker 2: as well. So that's one of our policies, not quite
[53:45] Speaker 2: it comes under a monetary policy banner.
[53:46] Speaker 1: But going back to let's go back to the monetary
[53:49] Speaker 1: policy as a vision vision policies.
[53:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, so what would you do the RBA, So we
[53:55] Speaker 2: want it to be accountable to Parliament even though it
[53:57] Speaker 2: does play an important role, and we also want to
[53:59] Speaker 2: use it payment systems underwriting new CBA as well. Now,
[54:04] Speaker 2: what we wanted to say, our big kicker at the
[54:06] Speaker 2: Martyship policy is we want an infrastructure bank. So we
[54:08] Speaker 2: want to fund our own infrastructure through quantitative easy in
[54:12] Speaker 2: a productive manner. We were told at university that it's
[54:14] Speaker 2: irresponsible for governments to print money out of thin air.
[54:17] Speaker 2: Now that is fifty percent correct. If you print and
[54:20] Speaker 2: spend that is bad. Inflation is a relative number between
[54:23] Speaker 2: demand and supply. If you print and spend it increase demand.
[54:26] Speaker 2: That's absolutely that wrong.
[54:27] Speaker 1: But here's the thing.
[54:28] Speaker 2: If you print and build and increase the supply of
[54:30] Speaker 2: power stations, increase the supply of dams, you're actually going
[54:34] Speaker 2: to deal with the structural imbalances of this country. Because
[54:37] Speaker 2: one of the problems we've got ever since the Tasmanian
[54:40] Speaker 2: damned decisions in eighty three is that state governments can't
[54:44] Speaker 2: build regional infrastructure because the inner city greenies stop it
[54:47] Speaker 2: from being built, and they come in over the top
[54:49] Speaker 2: through the federal government to stop it. But what we
[54:51] Speaker 2: want to do in the same way, if I said
[54:53] Speaker 2: to you that I was going to bring into private
[54:55] Speaker 2: Billo center, I was still a senator. I'm going to
[54:57] Speaker 2: bring in a private Builder's not BHP from issuing new
[54:59] Speaker 2: shares on the stock market to build a coal mine
[55:01] Speaker 2: that was going to generate a fifteen per cent return
[55:03] Speaker 2: on equity. You'd think I was stupid, wouldn't you. You'd go,
[55:06] Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with bohp issuing new shares out of
[55:08] Speaker 2: thin air, provided they're building an asset that's going to
[55:10] Speaker 2: generate a return. Governments can do the same thing, provided
[55:14] Speaker 2: they match it with you understand secured secured lines versut
[55:18] Speaker 2: unsecured lines. They build infrastructure, profit center, infrastructure, dams, power stations,
[55:24] Speaker 2: toll roads, ports, airports, telecommunications. Okay, all of those assets
[55:29] Speaker 2: make money. And what you do is toll roads is
[55:32] Speaker 2: a classic example Sidney. Today, what you're five million people
[55:35] Speaker 2: paying ten bucks a toll and one hundred years time
[55:37] Speaker 2: it will be ten million people paying a hundred bucks
[55:39] Speaker 2: are toll?
[55:39] Speaker 1: Right?
[55:40] Speaker 2: It's just a money making machine. Why on Earth would
[55:42] Speaker 2: your private toll roads right their natural monopolies anyway. So
[55:46] Speaker 2: what we want to do is we will issue one
[55:48] Speaker 2: new share and call and untapped wealth, set up an
[55:50] Speaker 2: infrastructure banking Canberra. That money will then lend bonds or
[55:54] Speaker 2: issue infrastructure bonds to state governments to build those profit
[55:57] Speaker 2: center infrastructure assets have fifty years to repay the debt. Now,
[56:02] Speaker 2: in the case of say you build a dam for
[56:04] Speaker 2: a billion dollars, you won't just issue the state government
[56:06] Speaker 2: a billion dollars. It might take four years to build.
[56:09] Speaker 2: So you'll issue the state government five million dollars for
[56:12] Speaker 2: two hundred weeks to build the dam. But here's the thing.
[56:15] Speaker 2: Thirty percent of that's going to come straight back to
[56:16] Speaker 2: camber and taxes in the first week, and the other
[56:18] Speaker 2: seventy percent of the money is going to spin through
[56:21] Speaker 2: the economy paying people to build things right. And we
[56:25] Speaker 2: can do that because where does the wealth, Where does
[56:27] Speaker 2: the ingredients for the dam come from? It comes from
[56:30] Speaker 2: the water out of the sky. We don't pay the
[56:32] Speaker 2: clouds for it to rain. We don't pay the sun
[56:34] Speaker 2: to give us that sunshine. If I drop a bull
[56:36] Speaker 2: in a paddic with twenty twenty cows and come back
[56:39] Speaker 2: a year later, I've got twenty carps, you know. I
[56:42] Speaker 2: mean that's coming from mother nature. Mother nature gives us
[56:44] Speaker 2: this recurring wealth and that's why we can justify. But
[56:47] Speaker 2: the key thing is you've got to match your credit
[56:49] Speaker 2: as you expand it. Because what we do today is
[56:51] Speaker 2: we expand our credit on this side of the balance sheet,
[56:53] Speaker 2: you know, it'stead of a balance sheet. We do it
[56:55] Speaker 2: through foreign debt. We should do it through domestic equity.
[57:00] Speaker 2: And then the breazon being that when you make profits
[57:03] Speaker 2: here from these assets, it comes back as dividends to
[57:06] Speaker 2: our children, not as interest off shore. And that's the
[57:09] Speaker 2: fundamental brainwashing exercise that happened to us in our generation,
[57:13] Speaker 2: is that we weren't taught the difference between debt and equity,
[57:15] Speaker 2: and we've grown up relying on foreign debt instead of
[57:19] Speaker 2: generating out the mestic equity. All equity is title. Our
[57:23] Speaker 2: forefathers built this country. They gave us this title, They
[57:26] Speaker 2: fought for it, they built it right. We have title
[57:28] Speaker 2: over all the rain that comes out of sky, free,
[57:30] Speaker 2: all the sunlight, the minerals in the soil. We have
[57:33] Speaker 2: that title, why do we give it away? So if
[57:35] Speaker 2: we build a dam for a billion dollars, for example,
[57:37] Speaker 2: and most governments will go out and borrow a billion
[57:40] Speaker 2: dollars off shore, that means the first billion dollars in
[57:42] Speaker 2: wealth we make, we just let it go off shore,
[57:45] Speaker 2: and another twenty five playing back. Yeah, and another twenty
[57:48] Speaker 2: five years interest of four percent. That's another billion dollars
[57:50] Speaker 2: in interest paid off shore. So we've just given up
[57:52] Speaker 2: two billion dollars of our untapped wealth the foreign banks
[57:55] Speaker 2: instead of here keeping it here for our children to inherit.
[57:59] Speaker 2: And we have to do that because another stupid thing
[58:01] Speaker 2: of what happened when Keating lived to capital controls. He
[58:04] Speaker 2: allowed savings banks to go out and do whatever they liked.
[58:07] Speaker 2: So of course Victorian savings bank State bank went out
[58:10] Speaker 2: and bought Tricontinental.
[58:11] Speaker 1: You'd remember this, I do remember it.
[58:13] Speaker 2: Sent the bank broke, nearly sent Victorian state government broke
[58:16] Speaker 2: John Kerner. So then Jeff Kennett came in and started
[58:19] Speaker 2: privatizing all our assets, state assets. And of course this
[58:22] Speaker 2: is you know, we talk about the federal government trillion
[58:25] Speaker 2: dollar debt. State governments are even in a bigger places.
[58:27] Speaker 1: Another trillionent adim all up. Absolutely. Yeah, there's another trillium
[58:30] Speaker 1: we are in Australia. National ended, state and state government
[58:33] Speaker 1: debt added together is two trillion dollars, that's correct.
[58:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't forget the four hundred and sixty billion
[58:39] Speaker 2: dollars sitting in franking credits that haven't been paid out
[58:41] Speaker 2: yet either. Well yeah, so no one ever talks about
[58:44] Speaker 2: that either. So that's another policy of the lot to
[58:46] Speaker 2: talk about later. But so this is the thing. We've
[58:50] Speaker 2: got to secure title over our unsapped wealth because that's
[58:53] Speaker 2: the only way out of this mess, is to go
[58:56] Speaker 2: back to building infrastructure that's going to generate recurring wealth.
[59:00] Speaker 2: Because when we privatized all that infrastructure, we started letting
[59:03] Speaker 2: even more assets go off shore. But even more importantly,
[59:07] Speaker 2: we started to let go of the skills that our
[59:09] Speaker 2: children needs. Not enough to just build an infrastructure and
[59:11] Speaker 2: leave them infrastructure. We've got to teach them the right skills.
[59:14] Speaker 2: So complementing our infrastructure.
[59:16] Speaker 1: Bank isn't is this coming to the RBA head Well?
[59:19] Speaker 2: Under monetary policy monetary policy, monetary policy, you manage monetary
[59:25] Speaker 2: policy through three leaves qualitative easing, which is what we
[59:28] Speaker 2: do now, which yet again changing. If you've got washed
[59:30] Speaker 2: up in a desert island, would you go and pull
[59:32] Speaker 2: some leaves off a tree and start bartering leaves and
[59:35] Speaker 2: changing the price of the leaves. No, you'd actually start building,
[59:38] Speaker 2: you know, a fire, you'd build a house, you'd look
[59:41] Speaker 2: for a water supply. You'd actually start building infrastructures. Yet,
[59:45] Speaker 2: not not manipulating the price of paper assets, but building
[59:48] Speaker 2: really infrastructure. So we rely too heavily on qualitative easy.
[59:51] Speaker 2: I used to go ask the ABI this and estimates. Right,
[59:54] Speaker 2: of course, their hands are tired because they can only
[59:56] Speaker 2: deal with qualitative easing. What we need to do is
[59:59] Speaker 2: deal with quantitative easing, I build real assets and expand
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: the volume of credit, which, by the way, in the
[1:00:05] Speaker 2: nineteen thirty seven Banking Raw Commission, the recommendation of that
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: Raw Commission was the central bank shoill always control the
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: volume of credit in the system, not foreign banks, our
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: central bank. So we've got to use quantitative easing. And
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: any other way, of course, is through macro potential controls.
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: You know, you can't have a five percent deposit, You've
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: got to have a twenty percent deposit for a house.
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: You know, Savings banks can't go buying investment banks things
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: like that. So this all comes under monetary policy, under
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: the lever of quantitative easing, but in a productive manner.
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: So we're going to bring back our bank over here
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: to keep branches open in the regions because as you know,
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: a lot of bank branches are closing in regional Australia.
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: That's no good for businesses in small towns that you
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: can't access the bank and get banking services. Plus O
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: plus our state government Insurance office Infrastructure bank over here
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: that will also make money. We're going to put the
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: profits from those two banks into a middle bank called
[1:01:01] Speaker 2: the Infrastructure Bank, sorry, a development bank, and that development
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: bank will also lend back to state governments for schools
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: of cost center infrastructure schools, hospitals, for counsels for things
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: like sewerage works, so that the sort of stuff of
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: the subs council, building houses.
[1:01:17] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, But what we want to do is by having
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: that three bank policy, we want to remove the cost
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: of finance on our own currency for governments because we're
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: really at the moment paying tax twice once through using
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: the utility the infrastructure and again on the interest that
[1:01:33] Speaker 2: we have to borrow to build that infrastructure.
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: There must have been realized we're borrowing the interest to
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: pay the principle. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, and we don't need
[1:01:42] Speaker 1: to do that. We should issue it as equity, not
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: as dead, but on the condition that it's secured against
[1:01:46] Speaker 1: an our set that makes money, just like you're doing
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: a bank. Yeah.
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: Right, Like someone came to Wizard and said, oh, I
[1:01:52] Speaker 2: want to borrow a million bucks and didn't have any collateral,
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: you wouldn't lend them to them. So they've got to
[1:01:56] Speaker 2: have it's got to be a hardcore asset. And we've
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: got a seven million square that is twenty eight million people.
[1:02:01] Speaker 2: We have so much potential in this country. We need
[1:02:04] Speaker 2: to invest in our own future, for our own children.
[1:02:07] Speaker 2: And complementing this is bringing back a military apprenticeship scheme
[1:02:10] Speaker 2: that will actually start to train our younger people and
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: get a lot more people back on the tools. So
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: I was born nineteen seventy. My sister was born sixty four.
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: So when she went to high school in seventy seven,
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: there were four classes in grade eight. By the time
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: she left in year twelve, there was half a class left.
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: It's been forty years since the Button Plan that generation
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: is now retiring. That was the last generation whereby more
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: people are on the tools than in paper shuffling in offices.
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: So we're going to have this. This is why we
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: have to have such a high immigration rate for skilled labor,
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: because so many people that were trained on the tools
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: and doing apprenticeships, they're all retiring. And our younger generation
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: ended up going off to university thanks to the Dawkins
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: plane late eighties nineteen ninety we all sent them off
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: to the university to get broken binwashed, right, So we've
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: got to get them back on the tools, and that's
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: what this military apprenticeship will do. And we want to
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: expand the men join the military.
[1:03:07] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
[1:03:07] Speaker 2: The reason why is that it's very You don't get
[1:03:10] Speaker 2: paid a lot as an apprentice, So if we can
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: give them free accommodation, food and food, it'll help them
[1:03:17] Speaker 2: save money. What they earn they get to keep. And
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: then we want to use that as a pathway into
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: a military engineering call, civil engineering call and un Mechanical
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: Electrical Engineering Corps to actually start building roads and power stations.
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: Because wee snowy hydro two two billion budget, blowing out
[1:03:34] Speaker 2: the forty finion but not finished yet not even finished, right,
[1:03:39] Speaker 2: I mean, you can't pick up the phone if not
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: don't want to get involved with the war. But you
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: can't pick up a phone to a foreign building contractor
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: in the middle of the war and ask them to
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: rebuild the road if it gets bombed. You know, we've
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: got to have the ability here to build ourselves, build
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: for ourselves, and we don't really have much manufacturing left.
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: So if we can do it, and it's not you know,
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: it's not compulsory, it's not anything like that. It's just
[1:03:59] Speaker 2: an alternative that if you want to leave school at sixteen,
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: we'll pay for you. And we're going to fund that
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: by increasing student visa fees from well it's just gone
[1:04:07] Speaker 2: to five thousand it was two thousand to twenty thousand dollars.
[1:04:10] Speaker 2: So if you're a foreign student, you know, they come here,
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: they can pay up to one hundred thousand dollars for
[1:04:14] Speaker 2: university degree only. The government's only been clipping two thousand
[1:04:19] Speaker 2: dollars for student visa. Why are we doing that? If
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: you're here for four years two hundred weeks, that's ten
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: dollars a week rent for our infrastructure. We should charge
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: one hundred dollars a week for our infrastructure, get twenty
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: grand and then for three hundred thousand foreign students, we
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: want to bring it down for a million. Get six
[1:04:33] Speaker 2: billion in FIGN student fees, visa fees that can help
[1:04:37] Speaker 2: fund our military apprentices. Who you sit down with it
[1:04:40] Speaker 2: working all this stuff out. Oh, I just do it myself.
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: I do and know, I just sort of I've been
[1:04:43] Speaker 2: thinking about this stuff for twenty years. So this is
[1:04:46] Speaker 2: the only reason. I mean, I've lost my position as
[1:04:48] Speaker 2: a senator, as you know. But it's just this drive
[1:04:50] Speaker 2: to get these ideas out there because it just kills me,
[1:04:53] Speaker 2: like I'm so grateful to sacrifice as my own parents,
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: my forefathers, that I want to make sure get the
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: same opportunity as our forefather escaped to us.
[1:05:02] Speaker 1: What was fifth? Second? Vision? Second?
[1:05:05] Speaker 2: I just want to have a little story there before
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: I get to the fifth one. So, as you know,
[1:05:09] Speaker 2: the first guy to issue in currency in Australia was
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: Lochland Macquarie. First seventeen years of the colony, they relied
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: on foreign currency. There was a drought in eighteen hundred
[1:05:15] Speaker 2: and five that foreign currency got repatriated, so they started
[1:05:18] Speaker 2: bartering in rum that literally went tits up thanks the
[1:05:21] Speaker 2: Rum rebellion. So Lochland mcquarie was the first governmor to
[1:05:23] Speaker 2: come to Australia and says, look at us as a country,
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: not a colony. So you need to run a country.
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: You need obviously a military to provide law and order,
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: a taxation system and a monetary system. He issued the
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: Holy Dollar, as you know, which is built the Sydney Hospital.
[1:05:37] Speaker 2: Syney Barracks would still stand on the Quarry Street today.
[1:05:40] Speaker 2: But what was interesting was he used that Spanish paso,
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: which was the reserve currency of its day, as our currency.
[1:05:46] Speaker 2: But what he did he punched a hole in it,
[1:05:48] Speaker 2: and he punched a hole in it to make sure
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: it didn't get exported offshore again. So this is our
[1:05:52] Speaker 2: last policy. We want to increase the rate of tax
[1:05:55] Speaker 2: on profits sent off shore to be higher than the
[1:05:58] Speaker 2: rate of tax here in this country. So because ultimately
[1:06:03] Speaker 2: you take fires. In twenty twenty two they made one
[1:06:05] Speaker 2: point four billion dollars in sales here, they shifted a
[1:06:08] Speaker 2: billion dollars off shore in royalties to island. Island's got
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: a company tax rate at twelve and a half cents.
[1:06:13] Speaker 1: As long as you're in the middle of Dublin.
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, in middle of Dublin, in the tax free area, yeah,
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: tax free area. And as withholding tax here of ten cents,
[1:06:22] Speaker 2: so ten plus twelve so one of the things. Yet
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: again we were taught you can't have double taxation. That's
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: not right. I learned this at Westfield. It's the cumulative
[1:06:29] Speaker 2: rate of tax that you have that matters, right, So
[1:06:32] Speaker 2: ten plus twelve and a half is twenty two and
[1:06:34] Speaker 2: a half. That's still seven and a half cents, less
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: than thirty cents. So we lost when we let that
[1:06:38] Speaker 2: billion dollars go off shore. We lost three hundred million
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: dollars in company tax, which we did recoup one hundred
[1:06:44] Speaker 2: with holding taxes. But we were two hundred million dollars
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: worse off islands one hundred and twenty five million dollars
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: better off of just having head office. So today that's
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: all I had, by the way, Yeah, yeah, that's right,
[1:06:53] Speaker 2: and they do. There's a foot four kilometer a circle.
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you've got an office there, you'd pay
[1:06:59] Speaker 1: the low tax rate.
[1:07:00] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and to do nothing. Absolutely, but we let
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: all this wealth. You go and get a plumber here
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: in Sydney tonight. You google it and the plumbers based
[1:07:08] Speaker 2: in Sydney, the customers based in Sydney. That money goes
[1:07:10] Speaker 2: to Ireland. Did Ireland build or did you know Matter
[1:07:13] Speaker 2: or Google or pisor build the cables you know that
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: connected us to Ireland? No, of course not right. So
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: we've got to start taxing profits that go offshore. This
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: was the whole reason why.
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: So I went.
[1:07:25] Speaker 2: So back to my story. When I came home, I
[1:07:28] Speaker 2: worked at the Bank of Queensland management account and treasury
[1:07:30] Speaker 2: account securitization banking ops. Then worked at Westfield's six years
[1:07:33] Speaker 2: in predominantly Treasury. But I did a march David Liddy.
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: I didn't know David Liddy, that's right, yep, yep. He
[1:07:39] Speaker 2: was big, hairy, awesome gold guy. Yeah yeah, so yeah.
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: So I used to catch the ferry from Kangaroo Point
[1:07:45] Speaker 2: across the river with David a few times as well.
[1:07:48] Speaker 2: So he brought in a whole new mainframe, so he
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: outsourced the mainframe services. So I worked on that and
[1:07:53] Speaker 2: coding all the overnight in tonights into the bank settlements
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: and everything like that. Now moved on to managing a
[1:07:59] Speaker 2: team of around fifteen in banking ops, including treasury securitization.
[1:08:05] Speaker 2: Good experience, yet again it's more bank but really worthwhile anyway.
[1:08:08] Speaker 2: So I did a master the finance when I was
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: there in the treasury stream, and then when I came
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: to Sydney, I worked at Westfield Westfield. Unlike the Bank
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: of Queensland which had about five subsidiaries, Westfield had about
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: six hundred. And I was like, what's all this all about?
[1:08:22] Speaker 2: And I realized it was all to do with tax,
[1:08:24] Speaker 2: moving tax around the world and things like that, because
[1:08:25] Speaker 2: obviously they had shopping centers in the US and the UK.
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: But I did a master's tax law up in Sydney
[1:08:31] Speaker 2: University and I was shocked at the number of sections
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: in that tax Act that gave tax breaks to foreigners
[1:08:38] Speaker 2: over to foreign investment in front of domestic investment. And
[1:08:42] Speaker 2: this is killing us. So we can't have it on
[1:08:45] Speaker 2: shore tax rate of thirty cents and an offshore tax
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: rate depending on tax treaty between zero and fifteen. Because
[1:08:51] Speaker 2: everyone is bending over backwards to shift profits offshore. We
[1:08:55] Speaker 2: have to stop the leakage of profits offshore. So between
[1:08:58] Speaker 2: building more infrastructure to generate more income, increasing taxes on foreigners,
[1:09:02] Speaker 2: and cutting some government waste that's easier said than done.
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: That's how we want to bring the budget back into
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: balance as well as cut taxes for hard working Australians.
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: There your policies, LL not call policies, I don't know
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: what you call them, the headliners that they're five key policies.
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: Let's say people first go to the next election twenty eight.
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: We're talking about twenty eight. Can you get people to
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: represent your seats? Very seats?
[1:09:29] Speaker 2: We won't have any problem fillings are getting center candidate.
[1:09:33] Speaker 2: We will show that we will struggle to fill one
[1:09:35] Speaker 2: hundred and fifty seats. This is our first time around.
[1:09:37] Speaker 2: Well there was themselves last year where we only had
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: a standing start of about four months. So what we're
[1:09:41] Speaker 2: working on is building our membership. So we're merging with
[1:09:44] Speaker 2: the Citizens Party. We're going to get close to seven
[1:09:46] Speaker 2: thousand members. I'm talking to a couple of other minor
[1:09:49] Speaker 2: parties hopefully if we can bring on them board, we'll
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: get to ten thousand members. The Labor Party, as Benjmark,
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: has about fifty thousand members nationally. And how all we
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: can do is through opportunities like you've great given me
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: today and I appreciate it. Is get our word out there,
[1:10:03] Speaker 2: talk about our policies through grassroots involvement, so social media,
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: going to the markets and talking to people in the
[1:10:09] Speaker 2: community about our policies. And we just want to really
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: focus on the vision for tomorrow as well as you know,
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: obviously we want a solution today, but we want to
[1:10:16] Speaker 2: just really want to stress the importance that we do
[1:10:18] Speaker 2: live in a great country. We owe it to our
[1:10:20] Speaker 2: children to give them the opportunities our forefathers gave to
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: us and to be more optimistic. So we do want
[1:10:26] Speaker 2: to have a point of difference there in the sense
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: that we yeah, well, I mean inevitably sometimes I get
[1:10:32] Speaker 2: dragged into the toxic toxicity, you know, sue a pit
[1:10:36] Speaker 2: of social media. But we do have solutions and there
[1:10:40] Speaker 2: is a way out of the mess that we're in.
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: We've just got to go back to basics, and that
[1:10:44] Speaker 2: is you know, hard work, believing in family, you know,
[1:10:47] Speaker 2: and believing in the community in this great country called Australia.
[1:10:50] Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, I was only thing the other
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: day when I was a kid growing up. It's interesting
[1:10:56] Speaker 1: you should say that because when I was a kid
[1:10:58] Speaker 1: running we sort of went like this was in different
[1:11:02] Speaker 1: order for different people. But these three elements always included
[1:11:04] Speaker 1: everyone's conversation God, family, country or family, country, God or
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: whatever the matter, what the priority list was, but it
[1:11:12] Speaker 1: was sort of those three things you wanted everybody. That's
[1:11:15] Speaker 1: all our values. We all stood for our country, yeah,
[1:11:18] Speaker 1: we all stood for our God, whichever god that was. Yeah,
[1:11:21] Speaker 1: and for our family. Yeah, there are our three main values. Yeah.
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: We sort we sight of that a little bit, haven't we. Yeah?
[1:11:27] Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, I still think the high point of
[1:11:30] Speaker 2: our national identity was Bob Hawk in nineteen ninety eight,
[1:11:33] Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight, sorry, at the Opera House, you know,
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: and that bi centennial celebrations on the Sydney Harbor. They
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: were just magnificent.
[1:11:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, straight off for the America's Cup challenge. Yeah seven Yeah, Yeah,
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: that's right.
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: And Bob Hawk and I don't normally agree with Bob
[1:11:48] Speaker 2: Hawk on a lot of things, but he said something
[1:11:49] Speaker 2: that I think we should reflect on a lot. He
[1:11:51] Speaker 2: said there should be no hierarchy of origin in this country.
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: And he's banging on about that it doesn't matter when
[1:11:58] Speaker 2: you got here. If you put your first and love
[1:12:00] Speaker 2: your country and want a better life for your children.
[1:12:03] Speaker 1: That's it. That's it.
[1:12:04] Speaker 2: You know, and our founding fathers in Section one sixteen eight,
[1:12:07] Speaker 2: they said there is freedom of religion. They did that
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: because they did not want religion in politics, and that's
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: really really important, you know, our founding fathers. You know,
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: the Constitution could do with a few tweaks, but they
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: did a very good job in doing that. And I
[1:12:21] Speaker 2: don't think people realize that the reason why they put
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: that in there is that they believe that religion and
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: politics needed to be separate.
[1:12:28] Speaker 1: So is people first party? Are you sort of saying
[1:12:31] Speaker 1: to us, let's get back to basics. Absolutely, but I
[1:12:35] Speaker 1: don't mean they be simple, but just what is fundamentally
[1:12:39] Speaker 1: important exactly for us to exist? Yeah, which is your family? Yeah,
[1:12:43] Speaker 1: you know it's like it's but also a country. Look
[1:12:45] Speaker 1: at our country, Look all we've got.
[1:12:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and your country yeah, and we and look
[1:12:50] Speaker 2: having you know, spend all that time traveling. We are
[1:12:52] Speaker 2: so lucky as a country, and I just sometimes think
[1:12:55] Speaker 2: we forget about it and we should not be so
[1:12:57] Speaker 2: pessimistic about what we have here and the opportunities we have. Sure,
[1:13:01] Speaker 2: we've had a probably rough decade where we've been going
[1:13:03] Speaker 2: in the wrong direction. No one denies that, and both
[1:13:05] Speaker 2: major parties are the blame for that. But you know,
[1:13:09] Speaker 2: it doesn't mean to say we can't turn it around.
[1:13:11] Speaker 2: I mean, two hundred years ago, pioneering forefathers were coming
[1:13:14] Speaker 2: out here, you know, beating a path through the scrub,
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: you know, putting up with snakes, and if you got
[1:13:20] Speaker 2: bitten by a snake, you can just go to the hospital.
[1:13:22] Speaker 2: I mean, my mum's one of five children. Her three
[1:13:26] Speaker 2: brothers all died within one year. So my grandparents, my
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: grandmother lost three babies within one year, not sorry, within
[1:13:33] Speaker 2: the first year of birth, So you know, I mean,
[1:13:36] Speaker 2: it wasn't that long ago that women would lose many
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: children in childbirth. So we've come a long way, and
[1:13:43] Speaker 2: our forefathers had made so many sacrifices to make this
[1:13:45] Speaker 2: country the great country it is. We've just got to
[1:13:49] Speaker 2: constantly remind ourselves that we are so lucky and then
[1:13:53] Speaker 2: use that to empower us and motivate us to get
[1:13:56] Speaker 2: up and do the right things. And it waste time
[1:13:58] Speaker 2: on social media if you're time on social media, not
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: this social media course, but spending ten ten hours a
[1:14:04] Speaker 2: week on social media. Cut it back to eight hours
[1:14:06] Speaker 2: and put that two hours into doing something constructive, get
[1:14:09] Speaker 2: involved with the political party. And because yet again, the
[1:14:13] Speaker 2: combined membership of political parties in this country is around
[1:14:16] Speaker 2: two hundred thousand people. Many, not many, it's less than
[1:14:18] Speaker 2: my percent of the population. You know, you can't complain
[1:14:21] Speaker 2: if the world's run by those you turn up, and
[1:14:23] Speaker 2: if you're not going to turn up and get involved, well,
[1:14:26] Speaker 2: of course the world's going to go in a direction
[1:14:28] Speaker 2: that you don't want it to go because you're not
[1:14:30] Speaker 2: doing anything about it to control your own destiny.
[1:14:32] Speaker 1: Do you think that's an austraining thing though? Do you
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: think we've been so spoilt, not at the moment, but
[1:14:36] Speaker 1: we have been so bored over such a long period
[1:14:38] Speaker 1: of time. Yeah, absolutely, and we don't feel the need
[1:14:43] Speaker 1: to do these things. I think that that has been
[1:14:45] Speaker 1: the case. I think that is changing. I definitely think
[1:14:47] Speaker 1: it's changing now.
[1:14:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it has been oh for sure. Yeah,
[1:14:51] Speaker 2: and especially with that asset boom in the eighties and
[1:14:53] Speaker 2: the nineties because we were losing product We were held
[1:14:56] Speaker 2: up by the mining boom, for sure. But the mining
[1:14:58] Speaker 2: boom has masked a lack of productivity through our manufacturing sector.
[1:15:02] Speaker 2: It's allowed the public bureaucracy to blow out and bureaucracy
[1:15:07] Speaker 2: not not public servants. So our teachers and our nurses
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: and our policemen, there's not enough for them. There's too
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: many bureaucrats, so we need to reach reorganize that.
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: So maybe you just explained it, because I think that's
[1:15:17] Speaker 1: a really important point, and I think we might finish
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: off this. But this is a really important point, if
[1:15:20] Speaker 1: you don't mind, Joe. People take the view that we
[1:15:24] Speaker 1: have a lot of people talk about too many public servants,
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: you know, but they don't talk about bureaucracy. Bureaucracy. And
[1:15:31] Speaker 1: I'm someone lived in here for a long time and
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: I know how bureaucracy works because some Gandhy made sure
[1:15:36] Speaker 1: he created this bureaucracy because he needed to give everybody
[1:15:39] Speaker 1: a job. Yeah right, yeah, demand how much you're paid,
[1:15:42] Speaker 1: but everyone had a job. Yeah, And it was sort
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: of bordering on communism, which is sort of where Gandy
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: was at, Like, yeah, a country like India is poor,
[1:15:49] Speaker 1: you had people had to have a job. Yeah. So yeah,
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: maybe you just can explain to people the difference between
[1:15:55] Speaker 1: public service, being in the service of the public and
[1:15:58] Speaker 1: being in the bureaucracy.
[1:16:00] Speaker 2: Different between two two different things. The public serves. So
[1:16:02] Speaker 2: our nurses, our teachers. I mean my mom was a nurse.
[1:16:05] Speaker 2: You know, my grandmother was a teacher. You know, our military,
[1:16:08] Speaker 2: they serve the people. And that word public service is
[1:16:11] Speaker 2: run around too much, and you often you know there's
[1:16:13] Speaker 2: a sky news does it. Oh, we've got too many
[1:16:15] Speaker 2: in public servants. It's too many. It's like no, no, no,
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: hang on a minute. Don't go around bashing the front
[1:16:20] Speaker 2: end workers. They work really hard, right, But do we
[1:16:22] Speaker 2: have too many bureaucrats? Absolutely, And there's the bureaucrats in
[1:16:25] Speaker 2: the back off that create your regulation, right, which not
[1:16:27] Speaker 2: only is attacks, it's strangles productivity.
[1:16:30] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:16:31] Speaker 2: And one of our policies are called to this my
[1:16:32] Speaker 2: Maine speech. We've got to have federation convention that looks
[1:16:35] Speaker 2: at removing the duplications of roles and responsibilities between federal
[1:16:38] Speaker 2: and state governments, and the vertical fiscal ambiguities between state
[1:16:41] Speaker 2: and federal governments and the next level down thirty three
[1:16:45] Speaker 2: councils in Sydney. Do we need that many?
[1:16:47] Speaker 1: Ridiculous?
[1:16:47] Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, right, Brisbane City's got four councils, the biggest one,
[1:16:52] Speaker 2: Brisbane City Itself's got one point four million pairs works amazingly. Yeah,
[1:16:55] Speaker 2: exact same as Gold Coast amazing Yeah, that's right, because
[1:16:59] Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure there's all inefficiencies in their bureaucracies,
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: but at least there's only because we've often had this
[1:17:04] Speaker 2: thing on our side of politics, where if you have
[1:17:06] Speaker 2: the states competing, you'll get great to competition. But I've
[1:17:09] Speaker 2: realized when it comes to bureaucrats, you're actually fighting an
[1:17:11] Speaker 2: eight headed hydra, not one like you're better off having
[1:17:16] Speaker 2: one level of bureaucracy. Seeable yet very simple and of course,
[1:17:20] Speaker 2: ironically enough, the Tasmanian Dam's decision has led to this
[1:17:24] Speaker 2: because it basically allowed Bob Hawk to go to the
[1:17:26] Speaker 2: High Court and say, we want to stop the Tasmanian
[1:17:28] Speaker 2: government for building a dam, not talking Franklin Dam's bidle Damn.
[1:17:31] Speaker 2: Maybe it shouldn't have been damned, no argument there. But
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: what that means now is every time the state government
[1:17:36] Speaker 2: tries to do something, the federal government steps in according
[1:17:39] Speaker 2: to some foreign treaty and over and stops the state
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: government and doing anything. So we've got this real dysfunctional
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: federation at the moment, and we've got to sort that out.
[1:17:49] Speaker 1: The bureaucrats create a think called what I call the bureaucracy,
[1:17:54] Speaker 1: which is by definition designed to be inefficient, and as
[1:17:58] Speaker 1: a result of that, the inefficiency inefficiencies create jobs within
[1:18:02] Speaker 1: the bureaucracy for bureaucrats exactly, and it just keeps feeding
[1:18:06] Speaker 1: on itself and it becomes it's no one individual's fault.
[1:18:10] Speaker 1: It's not the fault of the individual bureaucrat that's in
[1:18:12] Speaker 1: the bureaucracy. I mean sometimes it is, but generally speaking
[1:18:15] Speaker 1: it's not. It's the fault of the politicians who create
[1:18:18] Speaker 1: the bureaucracy, and to some extent currently in our current regime,
[1:18:23] Speaker 1: the bureaucracy protects certain politicians.
[1:18:27] Speaker 2: And it'll protect itself. You're right, it's a hammer looking.
[1:18:31] Speaker 1: They talk about AI one day taking over the world. Well,
[1:18:34] Speaker 1: for me, we already have it. It's called a bureaucracy,
[1:18:36] Speaker 1: and it's happening in a lot of countries like the
[1:18:39] Speaker 1: UK's are got a great example. France is another great example.
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: But Australia, the bureaucracy is a major problem for a
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: country who's so small. Absolutely in terms of people, we're
[1:18:49] Speaker 1: way way too big. And I agree public servants, people
[1:18:52] Speaker 1: in the service of public they should get a medal. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
[1:18:56] Speaker 1: And please don't confuse a public servant with aureaucrat. Yeah,
[1:19:00] Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And the public servant gets paid, No,
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: we knew what a bureaucrad gets paid either. There's a
[1:19:05] Speaker 1: major disparity between you know, the reward for effort. Yeah,
[1:19:10] Speaker 1: and that's what we would look at, is the bureaucrats. Yeah. Absolutely.
[1:19:14] Speaker 1: I've had some exposure to it because I've shared quite
[1:19:16] Speaker 1: a few task force for various governments and I have
[1:19:21] Speaker 1: to do. The bureaucracy at the end of the day,
[1:19:24] Speaker 1: kills off pretty much every innovative idea that I've ever
[1:19:26] Speaker 1: come up with. Yeah. Yeah, they risk their risk adverse. Yeah.
[1:19:30] Speaker 2: I caught up with some guys in the defense industry
[1:19:32] Speaker 2: who are private contractors and they just said, you know,
[1:19:34] Speaker 2: they're so frustrated with Australian military because they're so risk
[1:19:38] Speaker 2: adverse and by the time they've actually you know, they
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: want the proof of you know, concept concept before before
[1:19:47] Speaker 2: they adopted prototyping, prototyping all this stuff, and as they
[1:19:51] Speaker 2: were saying, by that stage, he's got no money left,
[1:19:53] Speaker 2: We've got no money left, or and other countries coming
[1:19:56] Speaker 2: up and even more.
[1:19:57] Speaker 1: In that, which is why I think about it. I've
[1:19:59] Speaker 1: got a I want really approve this, and I thinking
[1:20:01] Speaker 1: about that bureaucross. He thinks about what are the reasons
[1:20:03] Speaker 1: why I should not approve it, and that it doesn't
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: matter whether it's defense or yeah, dams or whatever the
[1:20:10] Speaker 1: infrastructure is. Yeah, it's about what are the reasons that
[1:20:13] Speaker 1: there's a problem, because if they did it too efficiently,
[1:20:16] Speaker 1: they do themselves out of a job. Yeah. Correct, Yeah,
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: so feeds on itself. Yeah, exactly. Well, Jared Nick, I
[1:20:23] Speaker 1: really want to thank you very much for your introduction
[1:20:27] Speaker 1: to me, at least of the People First Party. I
[1:20:31] Speaker 1: think it's amazing.
[1:20:32] Speaker 2: We'll have a name change so too. By the way,
[1:20:33] Speaker 2: it's going to be People's Party. I had Heritage Bank,
[1:20:36] Speaker 2: you know Heritage You change their bank name to people First,
[1:20:39] Speaker 2: and they've sued me copyright. Yeah, and as I said
[1:20:42] Speaker 2: to the judge, I said, I don't have a license
[1:20:44] Speaker 2: from APRA for showing potential regulation authority. This is a
[1:20:46] Speaker 2: question of fact. But you let it go to trial.
[1:20:48] Speaker 2: It was going to do it for three days and
[1:20:50] Speaker 2: I was like, well, I don't like to look at
[1:20:51] Speaker 2: these I'm.
[1:20:52] Speaker 1: Just going to People's Party. Yeah, I should. I don't
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: mind that People's Party. Yeah, Australia People's Party. It'll be
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: slightly easier. Yeah, call theirselves people's party. You know it'll
[1:21:01] Speaker 1: be abbreviged to that. But but yeah, but thanks for
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: having me on, Mark. I look for fortunity. I look
[1:21:07] Speaker 1: forward to it making some innroads in the twenty out
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: election made cheers. Thanks, Mark, appreciate it.

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