# NRL Boss Peter V’landys on the Historic $5.3B Broadcast Deal, PNG & the Future of Rugby League

An episode of [Straight Talk with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1572546872), 19 Aug 2026, 1 h 08 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/1c4759f0-81fc-4f35-85d1-b305004fc1e8/e475a496-2a7c-44e1-abd2-b4ab0026f283/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=573776d2-4dbd-4f2f-a825-b305004fc1ef

Peter V'landys is the Executive Chairman of the NRL and one of Australia's most decorated sports administrators, having previously led Racing NSW through a comparable transformation. In this episode, he joins me to break down how he turned a financially fragile NRL, two months from insolvency during COVID, into a $500 million asset base backed by a record $5.3 billion broadcast deal. The conversation covers negotiation strategy, rule innovation, the PNG Chiefs expansion, the growth of the women's game, and Peter's personal approach to health and longevity. Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Feud of Landers. Welcome to straight Talk, mate, it's great
[0:03] Speaker 1: to have you back.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
[0:05] Speaker 1: Last one was a live audience.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Yes, and I said some controversial things which have come
[0:09] Speaker 2: back to buy me. But that's okay, that's wrong.
[0:12] Speaker 1: Don't hold back, Okay, I never hold back. You've not
[0:14] Speaker 1: known for that.
[0:15] Speaker 2: I've got no filter. That's my problem.
[0:17] Speaker 1: Think is that a conscious thing? No filter for Landers?
[0:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. I prefer to say it the way
[0:25] Speaker 2: it is rather than try to use cliches or spin
[0:28] Speaker 2: or what you What I say is what you get.
[0:31] Speaker 2: There is nothing, you know, full transparency.
[0:34] Speaker 1: But you don't believe anything over for interpretation.
[0:36] Speaker 2: Or ambiguity or or try to hide things or you know,
[0:40] Speaker 2: I just believe in being yourself and being myself. I've
[0:44] Speaker 2: got no filter. I just say it. You know, no
[0:47] Speaker 2: one dies a curiosity with me if I if. And
[0:50] Speaker 2: that's Look, sometimes that's a strength and sometimes it's a weakness,
[0:53] Speaker 2: you know, because you probably shouldn't say things at a
[0:56] Speaker 2: certain time that you do say.
[0:57] Speaker 1: You know, people generally speaking, respect if you make a
[1:00] Speaker 1: mistake just because you're telling the truth and you're saying
[1:03] Speaker 1: as it is a respect at least that you're told
[1:05] Speaker 1: of the truth. I mean, we don't get in politics
[1:07] Speaker 1: enough today, but I never know what's coming to me
[1:10] Speaker 1: from When it comes to politics, the narrative is different
[1:13] Speaker 1: to what the real policy is. I mean, and you
[1:15] Speaker 1: obviously deal with politicians all the time because they have
[1:18] Speaker 1: a big interest in what you're doing, what the NRL
[1:20] Speaker 1: is doing is doing. So what do you think about
[1:23] Speaker 1: the state of Rugula mode? Where do you think we are?
[1:25] Speaker 1: How do you feel about it?
[1:26] Speaker 2: Look, I think we're in the best position we've ever
[1:28] Speaker 2: been in. You know, we've got a record broadcast deal,
[1:31] Speaker 2: we've got record viewership, We've nearly got assets of five
[1:34] Speaker 2: hundred million, we're being innovative, we're going global. I don't
[1:38] Speaker 2: think the game has ever been in a better position
[1:40] Speaker 2: than it is.
[1:40] Speaker 1: A congratulations becoming the executive chair of the business, which means,
[1:45] Speaker 1: you know, you don't have as many We've probably a
[1:49] Speaker 1: lot of layers now between you and everybody else. But
[1:51] Speaker 1: you're more involved in the executive of the business as
[1:54] Speaker 1: opposed before you're the chair of the board. And actually
[1:58] Speaker 1: there's a fine difference between the two, and there's always
[2:02] Speaker 1: a temptation when you're the chair non executive chair to
[2:07] Speaker 1: get involved in the executive of the business. When you
[2:12] Speaker 1: were the chair as opposed to now, how did you operate,
[2:14] Speaker 1: What was the pit of Lendis like and what's the
[2:16] Speaker 1: difference with you then to compare to today's executive chairman.
[2:21] Speaker 2: When I was the chair, I drove the board and
[2:26] Speaker 2: the commission into being an innovative and looking at different
[2:29] Speaker 2: things in different ways. And the difference between that and
[2:34] Speaker 2: what I do now is management used to implement it.
[2:37] Speaker 2: So whatever policy or ideas or innovations we had, they
[2:41] Speaker 2: would be taken and implemented by management. At the moment,
[2:44] Speaker 2: I now have both roles. I've got to come up
[2:46] Speaker 2: with the innovations and policy decisions and then implement them
[2:50] Speaker 2: as well. And sometimes it's actually easier to do both,
[2:54] Speaker 2: you know. I know people have got this theories, but
[2:57] Speaker 2: when you live it in the real world, you realize
[3:01] Speaker 2: that sometimes things aren't the same as theory.
[3:04] Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you feel more comfortable being in an executive
[3:07] Speaker 1: chair as opposed to being a non executive chairman.
[3:09] Speaker 2: I feel comfortable in both positions because I had a
[3:12] Speaker 2: very good implementor and Andrew abdot So. When he was there,
[3:15] Speaker 2: I had the confidence that had be implemented the way
[3:17] Speaker 2: we wanted it to be implemented, so and he was
[3:20] Speaker 2: very good at that.
[3:21] Speaker 1: Let's just unpick those things you feel good about in
[3:23] Speaker 1: terms of where the rugby league is it today. The
[3:26] Speaker 1: first thing is you talked about the deal. Can we
[3:30] Speaker 1: open up the deal? So let's have a look at
[3:33] Speaker 1: were there any sticking points? How does a deal like
[3:35] Speaker 1: that come together at the end? Is there one thing
[3:38] Speaker 1: outstanding between you and the broadcaster and broadcasters that needs
[3:42] Speaker 1: to resolve and then you actually someone meet in the middle.
[3:44] Speaker 1: How does that what's that process look like?
[3:46] Speaker 2: Well, there's probably one of the most robust negotiations I've
[3:49] Speaker 2: ever been involved in. I think people would be surprised
[3:51] Speaker 2: at how we got there. And you know, it was
[3:56] Speaker 2: a strategy and the strategy worked. But I've got to
[3:59] Speaker 2: say it wasn't just in the last two weeks or
[4:01] Speaker 2: three weeks or four weeks of this deal was done.
[4:04] Speaker 2: It's been in the pipeline for five to six years.
[4:07] Speaker 2: Because I remember going into a meeting with a broadcast
[4:10] Speaker 2: is when COVID hit and one of them said, I
[4:13] Speaker 2: want to terminate the agreement. I'm not writing the revenue
[4:17] Speaker 2: I used to do on rugby league anymore. I'm losing
[4:20] Speaker 2: a lot of money. Your game has become predictable, your
[4:24] Speaker 2: game is losing fans, it's become boring. And that hit me.
[4:28] Speaker 1: Is it posturing? Was it posturing?
[4:30] Speaker 2: Look? I think it was posturing and reality, but for
[4:34] Speaker 2: them because he wasn't writing the revenue that he was
[4:37] Speaker 2: before on rugby league. So for me, it was a
[4:41] Speaker 2: wake up call for the game to innovate itself to you.
[4:45] Speaker 2: And what I found about rugby league, and I think
[4:48] Speaker 2: a lot of businesses make the same mistake, is it
[4:50] Speaker 2: was very insular. It would rely on the players, the
[4:54] Speaker 2: coaches and the club administrators when and they forgot the
[4:58] Speaker 2: number one person, that's the fan, the customer of the
[5:02] Speaker 2: organ thing. So I looked at it through a different lens.
[5:04] Speaker 2: I looked it through the customer. What does the customer
[5:06] Speaker 2: want for us to be? And at that stage we
[5:08] Speaker 2: had one point two million viewers, which we would not
[5:12] Speaker 2: be getting the broadcast still we're getting now because now
[5:14] Speaker 2: we've got two point four million viewers. We've got four
[5:18] Speaker 2: of the top rating shows on Australian television a rugby league,
[5:21] Speaker 2: with the number one being the NRL Grand Final last year.
[5:24] Speaker 2: And the three state of origins making.
[5:26] Speaker 1: Up second, third, and fourth.
[5:28] Speaker 2: Well, no, there's another sport that came second, but we
[5:30] Speaker 2: came third, fourth, and fifth, but we did come number
[5:33] Speaker 2: one in that regard. So we introduced new things that
[5:38] Speaker 2: the traditionalists probably didn't like because we looked at them
[5:42] Speaker 2: through the lens of a customer. For example, six again,
[5:45] Speaker 2: six again. Now you know, the game was being slowed
[5:48] Speaker 2: down by the wrestle. It wasn't fast, it was non stop,
[5:51] Speaker 2: and when the referees wanted to stop it, they'd have
[5:55] Speaker 2: to give a penalty which to stop start, and one
[5:58] Speaker 2: stage was thirty something hanalties when they try to speed
[6:01] Speaker 2: the game up. What I liked about the six again
[6:04] Speaker 2: was that it's not stop start. If you try to
[6:08] Speaker 2: wrestle and you slow down the ruck or you're not
[6:10] Speaker 2: you don't give the ten meters immediately, it's the six again.
[6:14] Speaker 2: You just keep flying and it just keeps flowing, so
[6:16] Speaker 2: it's not NonStop. You We introduced the captain's challenge because
[6:19] Speaker 2: because the fan hates being ripped off, you know, and
[6:23] Speaker 2: so if they get an opportunity to challenge something. We
[6:26] Speaker 2: introduced a two point field goal, so and that that's
[6:29] Speaker 2: been a success in itself because when there's two points
[6:32] Speaker 2: to go, everyone's expecting, you know, and some of the
[6:34] Speaker 2: great highlights of the game that you know, Nathan Cleary
[6:37] Speaker 2: kicking a two point field goal to equal the scores,
[6:40] Speaker 2: et cetera. And then we introduced a short kickoff. All
[6:44] Speaker 2: those things are about unpredictability, so you can't predict what's
[6:48] Speaker 2: going to happen in a game. And we got rid
[6:51] Speaker 2: of the wrestle, which the fans hated, and that's why
[6:54] Speaker 2: we've increased the audience from the one point two to
[6:56] Speaker 2: the two point four because we made it what the
[6:59] Speaker 2: fan wants, not what the players want, not what the
[7:02] Speaker 2: coaches want, not what the club administrators, not what the
[7:06] Speaker 2: NRL want. Who's your customer, it's the fan. So the
[7:11] Speaker 2: record broadcast deal has been done because we've worked for
[7:15] Speaker 2: five years to get our game to a point where
[7:18] Speaker 2: it was an entertainment product that can be sold at
[7:20] Speaker 2: the highest price.
[7:22] Speaker 1: So let me just unpick that a little bit more,
[7:23] Speaker 1: because it's very interesting what you just said six again.
[7:27] Speaker 1: I mean, how's that decision made?
[7:28] Speaker 2: Like, let's do six again? Okay, Well, when I first
[7:31] Speaker 2: came on the commission, I got myself on the what
[7:34] Speaker 2: they call the Competition Committee, and they decide the rules.
[7:37] Speaker 2: So when I became chairman, said to that committee, I
[7:42] Speaker 2: want some ideas on how to improve the game, how
[7:45] Speaker 2: through the lens of a fan. So they came up
[7:48] Speaker 2: with thirty ideas and the six again was one of
[7:51] Speaker 2: those thirty ideas. And as soon as I saw that,
[7:54] Speaker 2: I thought that this is the way we can speed
[7:56] Speaker 2: up the game, get rid of the wrestling. But I
[8:00] Speaker 2: was only early in the chairmanship and we didn't go
[8:04] Speaker 2: with it because I didn't want to introduce anything really
[8:07] Speaker 2: radical in my first couple of months. Then COVID hit
[8:10] Speaker 2: and it gave us the opportunity to reset the game.
[8:13] Speaker 2: And I remember Wayne Pierce coming to me, who's one
[8:17] Speaker 2: of my best directors, and he says, Peter, this is
[8:19] Speaker 2: your chance to introduce the six again. And he was right.
[8:22] Speaker 2: So I went out and sold that we're going to
[8:24] Speaker 2: introduce this six again. I rung the leading coaches that
[8:27] Speaker 2: we're going to do it.
[8:28] Speaker 1: So what's that proceed to look like? Who do you
[8:30] Speaker 1: let's got a lobby or whatever the case would be.
[8:32] Speaker 2: Well, I spoke to the people that I have Wayne Bennett,
[8:37] Speaker 2: Ricky Stewart, influences and influences Trent Robinson. I go to
[8:43] Speaker 2: those people that would know the game, understand the game,
[8:48] Speaker 2: and sometimes I've got to be careful too, because they
[8:53] Speaker 2: do look at it through a different filter.
[8:55] Speaker 1: Can we win or can we lose?
[8:56] Speaker 2: Correct? And what pleased me this year is we had
[9:00] Speaker 2: all those top coaches come in to the NRL and
[9:03] Speaker 2: I gave them all the facts and figures and said,
[9:05] Speaker 2: this has been done because we're looking out to the
[9:07] Speaker 2: lens of a fan. And every single one of those
[9:10] Speaker 2: coaches looked at it through the lens of a fan
[9:13] Speaker 2: when we were discussing it, and that was to me.
[9:15] Speaker 2: That was probably one of the highlights in me being
[9:18] Speaker 2: at the NRL. How the coaches, who normally do see
[9:22] Speaker 2: it through their own lens of their team, et cetera,
[9:27] Speaker 2: came together for the betterment of the game. We wouldn't
[9:30] Speaker 2: have got the broadcast deal and all that unless all
[9:32] Speaker 2: the game was together on it.
[9:34] Speaker 1: Can I just understand your thinking and all the thinking
[9:37] Speaker 1: of the committee and Wayne Pierce for that matter. Why
[9:42] Speaker 1: is a faster game more appealing to a fan? Do
[9:46] Speaker 1: you go and do some focus groups? How do you
[9:48] Speaker 1: work that out?
[9:48] Speaker 2: Look? I think it comes with experience and knowing the game.
[9:51] Speaker 2: And it's more than about the fun the speed of
[9:53] Speaker 2: the game. It's about fatigue. So you need players to
[9:57] Speaker 2: get fatigue because then the brilliant player come to the fall.
[10:01] Speaker 2: So your Reese Walsh's, your Pongers, your Walkers, you know,
[10:06] Speaker 2: the clearies that they come to the fall.
[10:09] Speaker 1: I got adding that Tesco too, to Desco.
[10:11] Speaker 2: Well how could you miss me? He's one of the best.
[10:14] Speaker 2: But those sort of players come to the fall, and
[10:17] Speaker 2: that makes it entertaining when you see a brilliant player
[10:20] Speaker 2: at his best. That's what that's what you go to
[10:22] Speaker 2: watch the game. You know. When I used to go
[10:24] Speaker 2: to games and when people us to stand up on
[10:26] Speaker 2: their seats, I knew, you know, and we weren't standing
[10:29] Speaker 2: up on our seats as much because we weren't giving
[10:31] Speaker 2: those brilliant players the opportunities we should be giving them
[10:34] Speaker 2: because we were wrestling, you know, and that there was
[10:37] Speaker 2: no fatigue. We introduced the interchange bench again, you know,
[10:41] Speaker 2: which limited fatigue. So we had to bring fatigue into
[10:44] Speaker 2: the game to bring those brilliant players to the full
[10:48] Speaker 2: and that's what we did. You know, you'll see now
[10:50] Speaker 2: that those really good players are excelling because they show
[10:55] Speaker 2: their true ability, they show their true skill, they show,
[10:59] Speaker 2: you know what, what excites a fan, and fans love
[11:04] Speaker 2: that brilliant player. They love athleticism, they do, and they
[11:09] Speaker 2: love that that player that can turn a game like
[11:12] Speaker 2: Cleary did in the Grand Final, like the DESCO can do,
[11:16] Speaker 2: like what Reswash did.
[11:18] Speaker 1: Like last year was amazing.
[11:19] Speaker 2: Look, Recee Walsh was just you know, I think we
[11:22] Speaker 2: probably won't recognize what a feat it was for another five.
[11:25] Speaker 2: He won the game, He won the game. Yeah, he
[11:27] Speaker 2: probably won this on his own. Literally, it was one
[11:30] Speaker 2: of the most brilliant individual performances and it probably hasn't
[11:33] Speaker 2: been recognized to the point it should be. But again,
[11:36] Speaker 2: that's that's what the fans want. The fans want to reswatch,
[11:39] Speaker 2: they want they want to hear, they want a hero,
[11:41] Speaker 2: they want to Cleary and you know, they want a ponger.
[11:44] Speaker 2: They that's a walker, you know, and look at it.
[11:47] Speaker 2: Look how well he went in the State of Origin
[11:49] Speaker 2: this year. They want those sort of players.
[11:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it's interesting that that's what the anerl
[11:55] Speaker 1: is recognized because when you look at I mean, I'm
[11:56] Speaker 1: not hit a bag. Another COVID when you look at
[11:58] Speaker 1: rugby union rugby UNI and it's just it's not dynamic,
[12:01] Speaker 1: it's slow, it's structured, it's very predictable, very predictable. It's
[12:07] Speaker 1: probably one of the reason why it's to something sense
[12:09] Speaker 1: dropped off in you know, viewership and then I find
[12:13] Speaker 1: it sort of bit unwatchable. And I know you're not
[12:14] Speaker 1: going to hear to you bag another code, but to
[12:18] Speaker 1: some extent, it looks like you looked at what was
[12:20] Speaker 1: not going well with other other codes and then made
[12:23] Speaker 1: sure that we incorporated that into rugby league. And also,
[12:27] Speaker 1: you know, it's a really important point. And well, when
[12:30] Speaker 1: the wrestle was on. What's interesting about that, When the
[12:32] Speaker 1: wrestle was on, the good wrestlers and the big guys
[12:37] Speaker 1: could stop the Tedesco's and all that, et cetera from
[12:39] Speaker 1: doing anything because they would just hold them down and
[12:41] Speaker 1: they would fatigue. To Tesco here we get fatigued, and
[12:45] Speaker 1: so you've turned the tables on everybody.
[12:47] Speaker 2: But rugby union is the best example. Rugby union sort
[12:50] Speaker 2: of abrogated its powers a bit, and a lot of
[12:52] Speaker 2: the rules come from Europe, so that haven't even got
[12:54] Speaker 2: control of their own destiny to give an example in
[12:57] Speaker 2: the State of Origin. For argument's sake, ball in play
[13:00] Speaker 2: is sixty two to sixty three minutes wow. Rugby Union
[13:04] Speaker 2: thirty wow. So when you look at that and you're
[13:09] Speaker 2: a fan, well for thirty minutes, it's really stopped. Start
[13:13] Speaker 2: doing nothing our game now, And that's one of our
[13:17] Speaker 2: key performance indicators. So you know, every week we look
[13:20] Speaker 2: at the entertainment value of the game. So we have
[13:22] Speaker 2: our referees to all these KPIs. One is the ruck
[13:25] Speaker 2: speed ten meter compliance ball in play make sure that
[13:31] Speaker 2: they play the balls never more than four seconds. And
[13:34] Speaker 2: ever since we've introduced these KPIs and kept the referees
[13:37] Speaker 2: you know, as to what they should be doing, the
[13:39] Speaker 2: game has improved substantially because the referees at the end
[13:42] Speaker 2: of the day have to implement what you want as
[13:45] Speaker 2: the entertainment facts.
[13:47] Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question about the four
[13:48] Speaker 1: second thing. So a lot of the club's using AI
[13:52] Speaker 1: now and two and what most people probably don't realize
[13:57] Speaker 1: is the amount of data and vision that you guys
[14:01] Speaker 1: provide to the clubs is crazy. Like for every game
[14:06] Speaker 1: our club canbury a lot of the club, We can
[14:08] Speaker 1: grab everything and we can push it through our AI
[14:11] Speaker 1: agents and we can sort of see you know what
[14:15] Speaker 1: the optimum hold down time is of a player, especially
[14:21] Speaker 1: when you've got a six again and they're coming at
[14:22] Speaker 1: your try line, what the optimum period is you can
[14:24] Speaker 1: hold them now before you get penalized and age or
[14:26] Speaker 1: get other six again against you. And ha's round three
[14:29] Speaker 1: and nine seconds. Well, that's the ideal, that's the ideal situation.
[14:33] Speaker 1: What I want to know, and I've always wanted to know.
[14:35] Speaker 1: What I want to always want to know, Peter, is
[14:38] Speaker 1: is are they up in the box sort of saying
[14:41] Speaker 1: to the referee or is the referee counting? Or are
[14:45] Speaker 1: they saying the referee listen, we've got a timer on
[14:48] Speaker 1: the roosters. They're holding down for four seconds or four
[14:50] Speaker 1: point twenty five seconds, you better pull them up, give
[14:53] Speaker 1: a six again.
[14:53] Speaker 2: What happens?
[14:54] Speaker 1: How does it work?
[14:54] Speaker 2: I think it's the instinct of the referee. The referee
[14:58] Speaker 2: referees what he sees in front of him. That's what
[15:00] Speaker 2: That's what we want from the referees. We don't want
[15:02] Speaker 2: them to be influenced by any outside factor other than
[15:05] Speaker 2: what you see with your two eyes and with the
[15:07] Speaker 2: assistance of the bunker is what you referee. So the
[15:10] Speaker 2: one thing we introduced this year which was very well,
[15:12] Speaker 2: not this year, a couple of years ago, which is
[15:15] Speaker 2: very important is the differential, which means that if the
[15:19] Speaker 2: referee is getting the roosters at three point five yet
[15:22] Speaker 2: the storm at four while he's not doing his job,
[15:25] Speaker 2: both teams at the end of at the end of
[15:26] Speaker 2: the game should be the same three point five. And
[15:30] Speaker 2: that's the more important one that everyone misses is because
[15:33] Speaker 2: sometimes so when I look at the KPIs on a Monday,
[15:37] Speaker 2: that's the first thing I look for. No, really is
[15:39] Speaker 2: the differential between how the referee referee both teams, not
[15:43] Speaker 2: one team.
[15:44] Speaker 1: So you get the data for both sides and for
[15:45] Speaker 1: all clubs.
[15:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, so we get the data from the ruck speed
[15:50] Speaker 2: for both for both teams. In the last few months
[15:53] Speaker 2: it's been equal like it's the referees have done a
[15:56] Speaker 2: great job in keeping both teams and there's occasions where
[15:59] Speaker 2: one team has got an advantage because you know they've
[16:03] Speaker 2: slowed the ruck down. But the referees now know that
[16:06] Speaker 2: we look at that differential, so both teams have got
[16:09] Speaker 2: to be the same. If one's at four seconds and
[16:11] Speaker 2: ones at three and a half. That means he's refereed
[16:13] Speaker 2: the one at three and a half and not the
[16:14] Speaker 2: one at four. So we want an explanation, why what
[16:17] Speaker 2: did you miss you know, in that play? And that's
[16:21] Speaker 2: important and that's one of the reasons I think the
[16:24] Speaker 2: game has become more popular is because we've really set
[16:27] Speaker 2: the referees some hard KPIs to referee the games. So
[16:32] Speaker 2: you see KPIs for the refs. Absolutely every week that
[16:34] Speaker 2: we look at the KPIs, we give them a score.
[16:37] Speaker 2: If they've missed any any there's a howler, they get
[16:40] Speaker 2: minus points so that they if their compliance is great,
[16:43] Speaker 2: they get plus points. And that's how we select the
[16:47] Speaker 2: referees for the bigger games is through these KPIs.
[16:49] Speaker 1: When you go off to do the deal with the broadcasters,
[16:53] Speaker 1: do you say, this is how this is our game,
[16:54] Speaker 1: this is what we do. You know we can we
[16:56] Speaker 1: spare the game up. We've got two and a half million
[16:58] Speaker 1: people now watch it or fans. Do you take them
[17:02] Speaker 1: through this process in the negotiation? Are you engaging the
[17:06] Speaker 1: broadcaster and letting them see what a bloody great job
[17:09] Speaker 1: you're doing.
[17:09] Speaker 2: Now with the broadcast? Is what we highlight in the
[17:13] Speaker 2: negotiation is their own business, so you've got to appeal
[17:17] Speaker 2: to their business. And can they live without the NRL
[17:21] Speaker 2: design the zone, can't? You know?
[17:24] Speaker 1: So?
[17:25] Speaker 2: And Channel nine cards own being Fox Ben Fox. So
[17:29] Speaker 2: both design and the two broadcasters have won the bid.
[17:33] Speaker 2: They need the product, they need it desperately. And the
[17:37] Speaker 2: big thing in this broadcast deal for me was how
[17:41] Speaker 2: the consumption of TV is free to wear freeedomware. So
[17:46] Speaker 2: ten years ago, free toware would have been the one
[17:49] Speaker 2: that you were really honing in on getting the maximum
[17:52] Speaker 2: broadcast rights. But people have moved away from freeomware to
[17:56] Speaker 2: subscription television. So it's like going to a restaurant. Now
[17:59] Speaker 2: you've got a menu and have Paramount plus Netflix, Ko,
[18:03] Speaker 2: whoever you want. And freedomware really has become news, sport
[18:10] Speaker 2: and reality TV because all the rest of the product
[18:12] Speaker 2: has gone to the streamers. But there's also been a
[18:15] Speaker 2: real change to the way people market. In the old days,
[18:20] Speaker 2: if they wanted to get to a mass audience, they
[18:21] Speaker 2: went to a freeware station. Now they've got direct marketing
[18:27] Speaker 2: in some degrees with social media, database marketing, so rather
[18:32] Speaker 2: than just going all on TV, so the freedoware is
[18:35] Speaker 2: not writing the revenue. What it used to. So when
[18:37] Speaker 2: we did the broadcast, we had to take that into account.
[18:40] Speaker 2: We had to make sure that what the freeom wear
[18:45] Speaker 2: is paying is viable for them and is viable for us.
[18:47] Speaker 2: And so that's why we concentrated on getting a higher
[18:50] Speaker 2: amount from subscription television because that's the future. You know.
[18:53] Speaker 2: It's a bit like the internet with newspapers. The newspapers
[18:56] Speaker 2: they've got a life, They're going to last a certain
[18:59] Speaker 2: amount of time and then they're going to dwindle and
[19:01] Speaker 2: more people are going to do things online. Well, it's
[19:03] Speaker 2: the same now, I think with the consumption of TV
[19:07] Speaker 2: and the revenue and the way marketers use these broadcasters.
[19:12] Speaker 2: So we had to do all that and analytics ourselves
[19:16] Speaker 2: in getting up in a position and look, and the
[19:19] Speaker 2: broadcasters were well aware of that. Where we were fortunate
[19:22] Speaker 2: within the deal is a new player came in in Amazon,
[19:27] Speaker 2: and Amazon was a real bidder really, and so when
[19:33] Speaker 2: you added Amazon with the lowest bidder together they were
[19:36] Speaker 2: higher than the highest bidder. And so Amazon really wanted it.
[19:41] Speaker 2: But they really wanted it, and they were great to
[19:45] Speaker 2: deal with, and they were professional. They were not saying
[19:48] Speaker 2: that the other broadcasters weren't. They weren't as robust as
[19:51] Speaker 2: the other ones. Look as I said, so because of them,
[19:56] Speaker 2: it made it easier build some tension. It built tension
[20:00] Speaker 2: in any negotiation, you've got to have competitive tension. And
[20:04] Speaker 2: you know, I know that the people that were negotiating
[20:08] Speaker 2: on there, I've known them for years, so it's it's
[20:10] Speaker 2: a bit hard when you're negotiating with them. But we
[20:12] Speaker 2: made an agreement that this is about doing the best
[20:16] Speaker 2: for your organization. I'm here to do the best for
[20:18] Speaker 2: the NRL, and you're the best to do for design
[20:21] Speaker 2: or Channel Night. And that's what we did. And at
[20:23] Speaker 2: times it got heated, like it didn't because we forgot
[20:26] Speaker 2: that we were and it got very heated.
[20:29] Speaker 1: You forgot your mates.
[20:30] Speaker 2: It was a hard process, there was no and it
[20:33] Speaker 2: tested the friendship, absolutely did.
[20:36] Speaker 1: It didn't even walk out of the room. Do you
[20:37] Speaker 1: have moments where you're a master negotiator? And negotiation requires
[20:42] Speaker 1: a bit of theater? Always does and not lies. But theater.
[20:48] Speaker 1: Did you encounter any theater? Did you put a bit
[20:50] Speaker 1: of theater on them? At any stage?
[20:52] Speaker 2: I put a bit of theater on I've got to
[20:53] Speaker 2: admit that I don't want them to realize that I did,
[20:56] Speaker 2: but I did. I walked out of a couple of meetings.
[20:59] Speaker 1: No, I can't do this. There's not going to happen.
[21:01] Speaker 2: I've had enough for you, and knowing that it.
[21:06] Speaker 1: Was a strategy, but yeah, look it's a tactic. But
[21:10] Speaker 1: they also they also know, by the way, but you've
[21:12] Speaker 1: already let them know somehow that Amazon's lurking around them
[21:15] Speaker 1: in the shadows somewhere, which then my going, blood the
[21:18] Speaker 1: hell he's going to go and do a deal with
[21:19] Speaker 1: Amazon when you are negotiating and you negotiating with nine
[21:23] Speaker 1: by themselves and designed by themselves? Are you negotiating nine
[21:26] Speaker 1: and be designed together by themselves themselves?
[21:28] Speaker 2: And one of the things that we did do, which
[21:30] Speaker 2: very early in the piece, is we said, if you collude,
[21:33] Speaker 2: or be at your peril, right, because what they've done
[21:35] Speaker 2: in the past, they've colluded.
[21:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, going up against you.
[21:38] Speaker 2: And I said, if I find out you've colluded, I
[21:41] Speaker 2: won't deal with it. Yes, And you know, when you
[21:43] Speaker 2: walk out of a meeting, you've got to be confident
[21:45] Speaker 2: that you haven't stuffed it up.
[21:48] Speaker 1: When do you know if you haven't gone, when do
[21:49] Speaker 1: you know if you're going too high? They like, did
[21:51] Speaker 1: you go and did you start off saying that I
[21:52] Speaker 1: want ten billion? I mean, how does it work?
[21:54] Speaker 2: Like, look the amounts we got them to basically put
[22:01] Speaker 2: a proposal him. So we knew in the I knew
[22:04] Speaker 2: in the back of my head how much we wanted.
[22:06] Speaker 2: And it was in the end we got more than
[22:09] Speaker 2: what we what we were. You deserve what you got people,
[22:12] Speaker 2: We do that what we got. But I think was
[22:15] Speaker 2: during the negotiations we were able to do it in
[22:18] Speaker 2: a way where we maximized it. Put it that way. Yeah,
[22:21] Speaker 2: And I think that the broadcasters think that they got
[22:29] Speaker 2: a good deal too, and that's that's a that's good
[22:32] Speaker 2: for me.
[22:32] Speaker 1: I think the clubs think you've got a good deal.
[22:34] Speaker 1: The clubs are very happy. I mean, one of the
[22:36] Speaker 1: things I've noticed in your reign is called it as
[22:39] Speaker 1: chairman and executive chairman, is that clubs have done a
[22:43] Speaker 1: lot better than we've ever done in the past. And
[22:45] Speaker 1: I can speak from the russ point of view in
[22:48] Speaker 1: terms of the money you give us the grants and
[22:50] Speaker 1: we'll come back to Papa, but Papini was amazing lead
[22:53] Speaker 1: the amount of money we got. The conversations. You tend
[22:57] Speaker 1: to understand how clubs operate and you tend to work
[23:00] Speaker 1: out very quickly that look, here's that important. Is a
[23:03] Speaker 1: big deal for the a RL NRL. But at the
[23:05] Speaker 1: same time the club have got a benefit from this.
[23:06] Speaker 1: So I've got to give the clubs a bit more money.
[23:09] Speaker 1: But on top of that, though you don't give us
[23:11] Speaker 1: all the money, you keep some for yourself because you
[23:12] Speaker 1: know that you've got to buy real est that you've
[23:14] Speaker 1: got to start building up assets. That's a real style
[23:19] Speaker 1: change from how the NL was built previously. I remember
[23:22] Speaker 1: the NERL had no assets, nothing but a lot of
[23:25] Speaker 1: money was flushing through, but it was all going out
[23:28] Speaker 1: to everybody. What was that change of strategy?
[23:31] Speaker 2: The change in strategy for me was that the clubs
[23:33] Speaker 2: were being started. Probably the best examples COVID we had
[23:38] Speaker 2: two months of cash flow left. Otherwise we were broke,
[23:41] Speaker 2: no assets, nothing literally no assets, no assets literally nothing,
[23:46] Speaker 2: not some cars, that was it. We had no assets,
[23:49] Speaker 2: We couldn't borrow any money, and we had two months
[23:52] Speaker 2: with a cash flow. So that's when I realized that
[23:55] Speaker 2: the model is the model is not right. We need
[23:58] Speaker 2: to fix this model. The clubs were being starved. They
[24:02] Speaker 2: were as a group were making thirty million dollars in losses.
[24:08] Speaker 2: So we had to turn the financial parts of the
[24:11] Speaker 2: business around. We had to cut expenditure. There was too
[24:14] Speaker 2: much bureaucracy, there was too much expenditure, so we cut
[24:18] Speaker 2: the expenditure and gave that manage to the clubs. So
[24:20] Speaker 2: the clubs now as a group made thirty million in profits.
[24:24] Speaker 2: That's a sixty million dollar turnaround. It's amazing, And I
[24:29] Speaker 2: look at it this way. I look at the Rugby
[24:32] Speaker 2: log like a public company. As a public company, you
[24:35] Speaker 2: want to maximize your return to your shareholders. That's one
[24:37] Speaker 2: of your keep enough for you to expand keep enough
[24:41] Speaker 2: for you to build your asset base. But at the
[24:44] Speaker 2: end of it, you give out to the share effectively
[24:47] Speaker 2: dividends to dividends, and we were doing that poorly in
[24:51] Speaker 2: my view. So now we've built up our assets generally
[24:54] Speaker 2: five hundred million. So if there was a COVID tomorrow,
[24:57] Speaker 2: we're ready for it. You know, we've now got five
[24:59] Speaker 2: hundred million dollars in assets.
[25:01] Speaker 1: You might explain some of the assets that you've guys
[25:03] Speaker 1: have acquired, I know, you like like motels and pubs
[25:06] Speaker 1: and that sort of stuff. Talk about that process.
[25:09] Speaker 2: We decided as a commission to have a hotel portfolio.
[25:14] Speaker 2: And the reason for that is economy is a scale.
[25:17] Speaker 2: Is that the more we had, the more effective we
[25:20] Speaker 2: can and efficient we can have them, and the more
[25:22] Speaker 2: the resources can be pulled. And that's work because you know,
[25:26] Speaker 2: we're getting about eight percent eight and a half percent
[25:28] Speaker 2: return on our hotels, and I think there's substantial improvement
[25:32] Speaker 2: left in them.
[25:32] Speaker 1: So they combination hotels or pubs are they're just accommodation comminations.
[25:36] Speaker 2: They're not pubs and clubs are very hard. So we
[25:39] Speaker 2: run them. We do run them, and you know, I
[25:44] Speaker 2: try to buy the ones that are below what superannuations
[25:48] Speaker 2: pay because once you start entering buying assets against the
[25:51] Speaker 2: super fun and you always come out second. So we
[25:53] Speaker 2: try to keep well, pay too much, We'll pay too much.
[25:56] Speaker 2: That's a good old greg in your make. That's agree
[25:59] Speaker 2: and it's worked because it's been good investments that they're returning,
[26:03] Speaker 2: as I said, eight and a half percent, which is
[26:05] Speaker 2: three percent more than what you can get from a bank.
[26:08] Speaker 2: And they're also capitally appreciating, so that's a that's a
[26:12] Speaker 2: good thing too. But more importantly, the sport has an
[26:15] Speaker 2: asset base that it can you know if it needed
[26:18] Speaker 2: to borrow money, if it needed to, it's got these
[26:21] Speaker 2: cash flows coming in. One of the things we have
[26:23] Speaker 2: to do as a game, in my view, is diversify
[26:25] Speaker 2: our revenues, because who's to say that you're going to
[26:28] Speaker 2: get the same deal. You know, it's seven years away,
[26:30] Speaker 2: thank god, but anything can change, you can. So we
[26:35] Speaker 2: need to be able to use some of these funds
[26:37] Speaker 2: to diversify our revenues, so we're getting revenues from other
[26:40] Speaker 2: sources other than just broadcast.
[26:42] Speaker 1: Is there something you brought in as chairman of the
[26:43] Speaker 1: board or executive chairman of the business. I mean, where
[26:47] Speaker 1: does that thinking some and I understand how you thought
[26:49] Speaker 1: about the change of the rules make more appealing, build
[26:52] Speaker 1: up the audience, bace, so you can get more money
[26:54] Speaker 1: from the broadcasters. But this diversification, which is very smart
[26:59] Speaker 1: about having other source of income, not being able to
[27:01] Speaker 1: have to rely as an old saying that if you
[27:04] Speaker 1: get more than twenty percent of your revenue from one source,
[27:07] Speaker 1: that that's a risk. And you're getting one hundred percent
[27:09] Speaker 1: of your revenue form two sources exactly, and so therefore
[27:12] Speaker 1: it's a risk. So you have to diversify strategically. Did
[27:16] Speaker 1: you do those in the capacity is exec chairman or chairman?
[27:19] Speaker 1: And who is issue?
[27:20] Speaker 2: Now? We did it as a chairman. Look, and I'm
[27:23] Speaker 2: very lucky. I've got a very good commission that's effective
[27:25] Speaker 2: your board and which is my board. And Gary Weese
[27:29] Speaker 2: is certainly one of the better investors in the game.
[27:32] Speaker 2: And you've got Tony McGrath in addition to that. But
[27:35] Speaker 2: the other the person that's been probably most responsible for
[27:38] Speaker 2: it in my eyes, has been Nikolas. He's the one
[27:41] Speaker 2: that drove me into the assets. He's the one that
[27:44] Speaker 2: could see that we needed this diversification. So he's been instrumental,
[27:49] Speaker 2: as is Gary Weese. One of the best directors I've
[27:52] Speaker 2: got on the board other than Wayne Pierce, of course,
[27:55] Speaker 2: is Peter Beatty. People underestimate former Premier of Queensland. Yeah,
[27:59] Speaker 2: and and how good that man is he. When we're
[28:03] Speaker 2: talking with you're talking about me as being chair But
[28:06] Speaker 2: I'm a member of a team and a proud team
[28:09] Speaker 2: because you know, I've got people like Wayne Pierce, I've
[28:11] Speaker 2: got people like Peter Beady, I've got people like Gary Weese,
[28:16] Speaker 2: Megan Davis, Kate James, and you've got people you know
[28:19] Speaker 2: with the legal mind of Alan Sullivan. He's one of
[28:21] Speaker 2: the best legal minds in Australia. So it's a team.
[28:25] Speaker 2: It's a very very good team.
[28:26] Speaker 1: But someone's going to run the team. You know, you've
[28:28] Speaker 1: got to lead the team.
[28:30] Speaker 2: You would you consider your loving it's like anything, girl,
[28:33] Speaker 2: You're the captain of the team, and naturally they rely
[28:36] Speaker 2: on the captain more than any other player. So they
[28:38] Speaker 2: do rely on and but I take every every ounce
[28:42] Speaker 2: of their abilities to help me. And as I said,
[28:47] Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate that we've got a very diversified skill
[28:52] Speaker 2: based board.
[28:53] Speaker 1: It's interesting that you mentioned n Polyaitis you know as
[28:56] Speaker 1: you and know, I'm Mason Nick. We're both good Mason Nick,
[28:59] Speaker 1: he's a fellow Etherean. And how important is it for
[29:04] Speaker 1: you to have he's an unbelievably successful businessman, particularly when
[29:09] Speaker 1: it comes to property. How important is it for you
[29:12] Speaker 1: to be able to pick up the phone and talk
[29:14] Speaker 1: to him and or take a call from someone someone
[29:17] Speaker 1: like him, It doesn't have to be him, but someone
[29:18] Speaker 1: like him about you know, the health of the NRL.
[29:22] Speaker 2: Well, there's two people i'd pick up the phone too
[29:24] Speaker 2: if I needed help. He's one and Nick Pappus is
[29:27] Speaker 2: another one. Both of them have been fantastic to me,
[29:30] Speaker 2: and we wouldn't have been able to achieve what we've
[29:32] Speaker 2: achieved without them, because you always need somebody that you
[29:36] Speaker 2: can ring to test your idea or test your what
[29:39] Speaker 2: you're doing, or you know, I've been too radical. So
[29:42] Speaker 2: they're the two that have helped a lot. And look,
[29:49] Speaker 2: everyone thinks that I was a Nick Politis's man that
[29:51] Speaker 2: I've come in because I only met Nick when I
[29:54] Speaker 2: came into the NRL, if the truth be known, And
[29:58] Speaker 2: every time I look at him, I think I see
[30:00] Speaker 2: my mother because there's actually from the same the same
[30:03] Speaker 2: little village that my mother came out of. So here
[30:06] Speaker 2: in Rugby League brought us together, and I somehow think
[30:09] Speaker 2: that my mum and he are related because they look
[30:13] Speaker 2: like twins. You know, it's it's it's it's uncanny how
[30:16] Speaker 2: much they look like each other. But I never knew
[30:18] Speaker 2: Nick until I met him in a cafe when they
[30:22] Speaker 2: were asking me to come under the commission. That's when
[30:24] Speaker 2: I met Nick. So but he he has been you know,
[30:28] Speaker 2: a real what's the word find in my life. It's
[30:33] Speaker 2: more than just you know, the NRL. He is a
[30:35] Speaker 2: great human being. The man we both know.
[30:38] Speaker 1: He's what they called Philotimore and Greek like something special.
[30:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's definitely something special. Yeah, everyone deserves a Nick
[30:48] Speaker 2: Politis in their life.
[30:49] Speaker 1: If you get a Nick Politis in your life, you've
[30:51] Speaker 1: had a fortunate life. Just if I could go back
[30:55] Speaker 1: on the expanding of the game, because obviously the broadcast
[31:00] Speaker 1: is like to know, there's more games and probably more
[31:04] Speaker 1: clubs who might be interesting for viewers to watch. We
[31:07] Speaker 1: can bring in more new audiences. Can we just talk
[31:10] Speaker 1: about P and G the Chiefs. To me, that was
[31:12] Speaker 1: a Stroker genius. How much of that is off the
[31:16] Speaker 1: back of the Prime Minister wanting to do something to
[31:20] Speaker 1: our nearest neighbor with our nearest neighbor, and how much
[31:23] Speaker 1: of that is about getting into that Pappy New Guinean
[31:27] Speaker 1: audience which is massive when it comes to rugby league
[31:30] Speaker 1: and adding to the league audience. How do the dynamics work?
[31:35] Speaker 2: Look, I've got to tell you this initiative is Anthony
[31:37] Speaker 2: Alberanezi's initiative. And I always say to him when I
[31:41] Speaker 2: see him, he'll be his greatest legacy because people don't
[31:44] Speaker 2: realize how important a neighbor. P and G is politically.
[31:48] Speaker 2: Politically it's so important.
[31:50] Speaker 1: Could you explain to us what do you mean by that?
[31:54] Speaker 2: Well, without getting into politics, if China invested heavily and
[31:58] Speaker 2: there was a conflict between us in China, well we're
[32:01] Speaker 2: gone basically because the good jump over there an hour
[32:05] Speaker 2: away there and China was going to make some heavy
[32:09] Speaker 2: investment in PNG. And the Prime Minister saw that and
[32:14] Speaker 2: someone he rang me and said, mate, I need to
[32:17] Speaker 2: put a P and G team in the NRL. I
[32:20] Speaker 2: just was in shock, more than not shocked. But I think,
[32:23] Speaker 2: alf how the hell do I sell this? You know,
[32:25] Speaker 2: is I want to help Australia and I want to
[32:28] Speaker 2: make Australia safe, But how do I sell a P
[32:30] Speaker 2: and G team? And then the more I looked into it,
[32:33] Speaker 2: the more I analyzed it, it'd be the greatest thing
[32:36] Speaker 2: that Anthony Albanez has ever given us, because you've got
[32:40] Speaker 2: a country that's going to follow one team, the whole country.
[32:43] Speaker 2: Whole country is going to follow one team. But what
[32:46] Speaker 2: I like about it is you can give billions of
[32:48] Speaker 2: dollars to as China was going to do, and it
[32:51] Speaker 2: goes to a bunch of politicians that it never gets
[32:55] Speaker 2: to the source of the problem.
[32:56] Speaker 1: Doesn't help anyone.
[32:57] Speaker 2: It doesn't help anyone in Papua New Guinea. Education is
[33:02] Speaker 2: not compulsory, so no kid goes to school. Wow, And
[33:06] Speaker 2: that starts the cycle of poverty in my eyes, because
[33:09] Speaker 2: you don't go to school, you don't get an education,
[33:10] Speaker 2: you turn to crime, you turn to gangs, you turn
[33:12] Speaker 2: to everything domestic vol you become non human. You need
[33:16] Speaker 2: an education. Everyone needs an education. So what the idea
[33:21] Speaker 2: was is a lot of this money is not going
[33:24] Speaker 2: to the chiefs. It's actually going into the schools to
[33:28] Speaker 2: put our players into the schools, to get the kids
[33:31] Speaker 2: to go to school. And if the kid doesn't go
[33:33] Speaker 2: to school, he won't be allowed to play rugby league,
[33:35] Speaker 2: not at school or on a weekend. And over there
[33:39] Speaker 2: it's an obsession. They play rugby league everywhere, they play
[33:41] Speaker 2: touch over. The kids just love playing rugby league. So
[33:45] Speaker 2: that's going to have more social benefit than anything any
[33:47] Speaker 2: billions of dollars that you can go on Scatagana through
[33:51] Speaker 2: a community. So that made me feel good. But then
[33:53] Speaker 2: I started doing the figures that there's ten million people
[33:57] Speaker 2: there if rugby league's got ninety eight percent of that audience,
[34:01] Speaker 2: So I'm not sharing it with AFL PSCO Rugby Union.
[34:04] Speaker 2: I got ninety eight percent. Even at a very low
[34:09] Speaker 2: price point. We can probably make more out of broadcast
[34:12] Speaker 2: in the next twenty years, and we can out of
[34:14] Speaker 2: Australia because you've got you've got ten million people that
[34:18] Speaker 2: are that are that you've monopolized. They've got nothing.
[34:21] Speaker 1: How do they watch footy?
[34:22] Speaker 2: They will watch it through the phones And you know
[34:24] Speaker 2: we went went and the peroson the pudding when we
[34:27] Speaker 2: had the Prime Minister's game, we had one point eight
[34:29] Speaker 2: million viewers, which is considerable, you know when you think
[34:33] Speaker 2: about it, and that's just going to get bigger. So
[34:38] Speaker 2: I think P and G is a great thing for
[34:41] Speaker 2: Australia and soft diplomacy. But I think it's going to
[34:43] Speaker 2: be the greatest investment in URLs ever made if we
[34:46] Speaker 2: do it right. You know, if we start the pathways
[34:49] Speaker 2: that you get all these good ten million people. You
[34:52] Speaker 2: know they're talking about us getting a twentieth team. In
[34:56] Speaker 2: christ Church, there's four hundred thousand there. You know, when
[34:59] Speaker 2: you look at the there's do the mat three or
[35:01] Speaker 2: four hundred thousand. In Darwin there's you do there's ten
[35:05] Speaker 2: million in Papua New Guinea. So for me, having a
[35:10] Speaker 2: ten million monopoly is a good thing and I think
[35:13] Speaker 2: the game will really benefit out of the PNG cheeves.
[35:17] Speaker 1: And so far in relation to they're doing a good
[35:20] Speaker 1: job in recruiting and also about promoting, and they're doing
[35:23] Speaker 1: a great job of browning things. How do you think
[35:25] Speaker 1: they're going in terms of getting ready brilliant.
[35:28] Speaker 2: We've got some very good people there. You know, you've
[35:31] Speaker 2: got Catherine Harris' as the chair, who is a brilliant
[35:36] Speaker 2: business lady. So then you've got Laura McPherson who's been
[35:39] Speaker 2: there for twenty years as the CEO, and she started
[35:42] Speaker 2: up junior regular league competition, so she knows the game,
[35:45] Speaker 2: loves the game, knows the people, knows the ecosystem. Then
[35:50] Speaker 2: you've got Michael Shamus, who is a brilliant mind, you.
[35:53] Speaker 1: Know, great foot in mind, great great football, Smarter than
[35:55] Speaker 1: everybody gives him credit for as a journalist. I mean
[35:59] Speaker 1: he's got depth, Chamus. Yeah, he's got a lot of depth,
[36:03] Speaker 1: very smart. He goat one of the best presentations you've
[36:04] Speaker 1: ever seen. And I like giving.
[36:06] Speaker 2: Young people an opportunity just because they you know, people say, oh,
[36:10] Speaker 2: why would you employ him well, because I think he
[36:12] Speaker 2: can do it. That's that's why you do it, and
[36:14] Speaker 2: you give people an opportunity. And so we gave Michael
[36:17] Speaker 2: that opportunity and he hasn't let us down. He's been unbelievable,
[36:22] Speaker 2: like the success he's had and how he's selling P ANDNG,
[36:26] Speaker 2: how he's signing these players up, I would regard as extraordinary.
[36:31] Speaker 1: How do you get a tax free deal? What are
[36:33] Speaker 1: you going to say to the Prime minister? Listen, can
[36:35] Speaker 1: you have some the government makes some exemption in the legislation?
[36:39] Speaker 1: How does that all work?
[36:40] Speaker 2: Well? In the back of my head being the CEO racing,
[36:44] Speaker 2: Hong Kong has a racing jurisdiction and they take my
[36:48] Speaker 2: best staff and they really my best staff because of
[36:51] Speaker 2: the tax rate. So they've got a flat fifteen percent
[36:54] Speaker 2: tax rate. So one of my long term employees who
[36:58] Speaker 2: had the highest regard for cane race in racing, and
[37:00] Speaker 2: he've been with me for twenty years and he says, mate,
[37:03] Speaker 2: I'm leaving. I said why, He said, because I'm going
[37:06] Speaker 2: to Hong Kong. I can make more money in three
[37:08] Speaker 2: years in Hong Kong than I can in ten years
[37:11] Speaker 2: in Australia. After tax or after tax. So when the
[37:14] Speaker 2: Pang thing came in my mind, hit I need an incentive,
[37:18] Speaker 2: not to get the players there as such, but to
[37:21] Speaker 2: get the people in the schools, and to do that,
[37:24] Speaker 2: I needed to give them some incentive. So if a
[37:28] Speaker 2: former high profile play it can go over there and
[37:29] Speaker 2: get three hundred thousand dollars a year, they keep the
[37:32] Speaker 2: whole three hundred thousand, so they don't have to be
[37:34] Speaker 2: there for two or three years, and they'll make more
[37:36] Speaker 2: money than they would have ever made, ever made.
[37:38] Speaker 1: Especially if it's towards the end of the career there. Effectively,
[37:41] Speaker 1: if I got three years left in my career, I'm
[37:43] Speaker 1: thirty one and I should have finished thirty four here
[37:45] Speaker 1: in Australia, if I can get NET three hundred, I've
[37:48] Speaker 1: effectively gone from thirty one to thirty correction in thirty
[37:51] Speaker 1: eight where it is, I've he sented my career.
[37:53] Speaker 2: And well, it's also the retired players that we were after,
[37:57] Speaker 2: and then it flowed onto the Chiefs. You know, we
[38:00] Speaker 2: needed to make sure that the team will be competitive
[38:03] Speaker 2: and attract some marquee players by having a tax free
[38:07] Speaker 2: it does that. But what people don't understand it's still
[38:10] Speaker 2: the same salary cap. It's still twelve and the salary
[38:14] Speaker 2: cup at the moment's about twelve point five million. Well,
[38:17] Speaker 2: if the players are at market rate, P ANDG Chiefs
[38:20] Speaker 2: can only get twelve and a half million dollars with
[38:21] Speaker 2: the players. Yeah, okay, they get a tax free and
[38:24] Speaker 2: that's an attraction, but it's no different than any other club.
[38:26] Speaker 2: It's still twelve and a half million dollars. Then they
[38:28] Speaker 2: get the same grande, and they get the same grand
[38:30] Speaker 2: they get the same everything. So the only difference is
[38:33] Speaker 2: is we needed an attraction to get the players to
[38:36] Speaker 2: go over there, and the tax free was that attraction.
[38:38] Speaker 1: Could you say, the Prime Minister, can you make a
[38:40] Speaker 1: tax freezon?
[38:41] Speaker 2: It was part of the non negotiable. So we had
[38:44] Speaker 2: were when we negotiated this. And there's another gentleman who's
[38:48] Speaker 2: been fantastic, which is Pat Conroy, the Minister for the Pacific.
[38:52] Speaker 2: He is a strong leader as well, and he and
[38:57] Speaker 2: I are gained a very robust, to say the least, negotiation.
[39:03] Speaker 2: Negotiated this deal and one of the things that we
[39:05] Speaker 2: would not move off it had to be tax free,
[39:08] Speaker 2: because it would you've got to make something successful. You'ren't
[39:11] Speaker 2: going to go in there and promise all these things,
[39:14] Speaker 2: knowing you're not going to make it successful. So to
[39:16] Speaker 2: make it successful, we convinced them it had to be
[39:18] Speaker 2: tax free. And the good thing about pat Conroy and
[39:22] Speaker 2: Albanize is they listen. They absorbed it. They understood the argument,
[39:27] Speaker 2: they understood the theory, and they implemented accordingly. Perth.
[39:32] Speaker 1: How's Berth going? The Bears, I mean Joe hockey keep
[39:35] Speaker 1: who's on the board that he keeps bringing about me
[39:36] Speaker 1: about it and telling me how great they're going. But
[39:38] Speaker 1: how they're going going.
[39:40] Speaker 2: They're going a lot better than people think. To be
[39:42] Speaker 2: fair to them, it's a tough one though, Pete. It's
[39:46] Speaker 2: not like going to pain. You're going to be get
[39:48] Speaker 2: tax free in Perthy, paying the same amount of tax
[39:51] Speaker 2: as here.
[39:52] Speaker 1: But you're a long still. You're probably further away from
[39:54] Speaker 1: Sydney than you are from put Moresby, I'm not sure.
[39:57] Speaker 2: But you've also got Perth. And Perth's a beautiful city.
[40:00] Speaker 1: I live there for five years, A great place there.
[40:02] Speaker 2: And you've got Freemantle. It's a great lifestyle. Yeah, So
[40:05] Speaker 2: there's that attraction just and look, they're doing a lot
[40:10] Speaker 2: better than the roster they've got, when you analyze it,
[40:13] Speaker 2: is a pretty good roster because what they've done is
[40:15] Speaker 2: they've concentrated on players between twenty four and thirty, which
[40:19] Speaker 2: means I'm going to get four or five years out
[40:20] Speaker 2: of them. Were going to plan. But they've got players,
[40:23] Speaker 2: which I think is what I call the Wayne Bennett approach.
[40:26] Speaker 2: Get players that come from a strong culture. The teams
[40:30] Speaker 2: that you want to get players from Melbourne Storm, which
[40:33] Speaker 2: has got one of the greatest cultures. There is Penrith
[40:37] Speaker 2: roosters you're going and try to find because those players
[40:41] Speaker 2: will bring the culture to that club. So they've got
[40:45] Speaker 2: three or four from the from the Storm, they've got
[40:47] Speaker 2: three or four from Penrith that will bring that professional,
[40:52] Speaker 2: family style culture and then you work your team around that.
[40:57] Speaker 2: And that's that's what Wayne Bennett did with the Dolphins.
[40:59] Speaker 2: He went and got players that came from a very
[41:02] Speaker 2: good culture and that's why they were successful because they
[41:05] Speaker 2: had a big junior base and he was able to
[41:08] Speaker 2: assimilate the good the experienced players with the juniors, et cetera.
[41:13] Speaker 2: And personally different to a degree. And I think the
[41:16] Speaker 2: roster will surprise a lot of people because it's better
[41:19] Speaker 2: than when you quickly look at it and analyze it,
[41:25] Speaker 2: it's it's I think they've done a good job.
[41:28] Speaker 1: Who's next? Look who are the contenders?
[41:32] Speaker 2: Put it that way, New Zealand is definitely a contender,
[41:36] Speaker 2: especially like the way All is playing this year. They're
[41:38] Speaker 2: playing amazing rugby league and they've made so much progress
[41:44] Speaker 2: in for rugby league in New Zealand.
[41:46] Speaker 1: The wars have been fantastic, Like their home games are amazing,
[41:51] Speaker 1: even there are way crowds, they are amazing.
[41:54] Speaker 2: But we've discovered that kids at school now want to
[41:56] Speaker 2: play rugby leaguestead of rugby union. Wow, you wouldn't have
[41:58] Speaker 2: heard of that five years, no way. And our ratings
[42:01] Speaker 2: have increased substantially in New Zealand, so mean television television ratings,
[42:05] Speaker 2: and we were able part of that five point three
[42:07] Speaker 2: billion came from an increase in our New Zealand rights
[42:10] Speaker 2: because we're doing so well over there, and there as
[42:14] Speaker 2: the pathways as well. It's not just as the players
[42:17] Speaker 2: that come out in New Zealand, but Queensland is also
[42:24] Speaker 2: you know, you've got to there's a big market up
[42:26] Speaker 2: there and Nick Polaita's territory hips which is certainly one
[42:28] Speaker 2: of the areas.
[42:29] Speaker 1: Which is by the way, most we don't know, but
[42:30] Speaker 1: that's where he grew up.
[42:31] Speaker 2: That's where he grew up. And it's ironic because he
[42:35] Speaker 2: was born in Australia and I was born in Greece.
[42:36] Speaker 2: I was born in Kitha, so that there's that area
[42:41] Speaker 2: as well that we look at. You know, part of
[42:44] Speaker 2: me says, we really we should have twenty two teams,
[42:47] Speaker 2: you know, if the truth be known. But that's not well,
[42:50] Speaker 2: certainly won't be in this cycle. But I think in time,
[42:54] Speaker 2: why wouldn't you have the maximum? And because the good
[42:58] Speaker 2: thing about having the twenty teams is it gives you
[43:00] Speaker 2: a lot more flexibility in a number of areas. The
[43:04] Speaker 2: draw which is important because you can have twenty rounds
[43:10] Speaker 2: or nineteen rounds whatever it is, playing each other once
[43:14] Speaker 2: and it gives you time for State of origin international games.
[43:17] Speaker 2: It takes the work laid off the players.
[43:19] Speaker 1: So you wouldn't have if you have twenty duo twas
[43:20] Speaker 1: for example, it doesn't mean you're gonna have thirty rounds.
[43:23] Speaker 2: Correct, you can reduce rounds, but you could also be innovative.
[43:27] Speaker 2: I remember when I first came into the commission, I
[43:31] Speaker 2: think there was about three or four coaches that came
[43:32] Speaker 2: and saw me and said, you've got to be looking
[43:35] Speaker 2: at doing two conferences. And it makes a lot of
[43:38] Speaker 2: sense when you sit down and think about it. If
[43:40] Speaker 2: you had two conferences of ten, then you have them
[43:44] Speaker 2: play the winner out of one and then it's a
[43:47] Speaker 2: super Bowl style thing. There's a lot more excitement that
[43:54] Speaker 2: can come out of it.
[43:55] Speaker 1: Do you do the need more teams you're doing.
[43:57] Speaker 2: That's why the twenty two it makes sense, makes sense.
[44:00] Speaker 2: That's interesting, but that's a long term plan. The thing
[44:05] Speaker 2: that a lot of businesses and sports do is they
[44:07] Speaker 2: sit back and think that you're optimum. Can I just
[44:10] Speaker 2: say you're never your optimum?
[44:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not your style.
[44:13] Speaker 2: The style you know, people say, why don't you just
[44:15] Speaker 2: sit back now? And you know you've done your yards,
[44:17] Speaker 2: you have achieved all these things. But I can't. It's
[44:21] Speaker 2: in your DNA. You've got to keep you got to
[44:24] Speaker 2: keep at it, you've got to keep growing it. You're
[44:26] Speaker 2: going to You've got to have ambition, you've got to
[44:28] Speaker 2: have drive. Otherwise move aside and let someone else do it.
[44:33] Speaker 1: Las Vegas. I'm being all three and they're fun and
[44:36] Speaker 1: they're very successful, and they're getting better and better and better.
[44:39] Speaker 1: How do you feel about Las Vegas and we always
[44:42] Speaker 1: have the games in Las Vegas or do you think
[44:43] Speaker 1: at some stage we might play in other parts of America.
[44:46] Speaker 2: Look, I think Vegas actually even surprised me. One of
[44:50] Speaker 2: the reasons I liked Vegas was I wanted to promote
[44:53] Speaker 2: Watch NRL, which is our app that has all the
[44:57] Speaker 2: games and has all the panel shows. Say, if you're
[45:00] Speaker 2: in America and you want to watch Rugby League, you
[45:02] Speaker 2: subscribed to watch NRL, and our sales weren't great, and
[45:06] Speaker 2: I realized there was three to four hundred thousand Australians
[45:09] Speaker 2: live in you know, America, So why aren't we selling
[45:13] Speaker 2: to those people? And I ran into it. I was
[45:15] Speaker 2: at the Actually fortunate enough, I was at the White
[45:18] Speaker 2: House and Ben Way, who was the boss of Macquarie,
[45:23] Speaker 2: who's a big Roosters fan, came over and saw me
[45:25] Speaker 2: and he said, thank you, thank you, thank you. I said,
[45:27] Speaker 2: why are you thanking me? He said, because during COVID,
[45:30] Speaker 2: when we had nothing else to do, I watched Watch NRL.
[45:34] Speaker 2: It's the best kept secret theories.
[45:35] Speaker 1: You can't watch in Australia watch.
[45:38] Speaker 2: But in Australia basically ky. So that made me think,
[45:42] Speaker 2: you know, why aren't we marketing this? So Vegas came
[45:44] Speaker 2: to the four in basically promoting the game, and not
[45:50] Speaker 2: only do Americans, but to Australia. So we've increased watch
[45:52] Speaker 2: an erl by eighty seven percent. So we're actually making
[45:55] Speaker 2: a lot more money now out of our app than
[45:57] Speaker 2: we've ever had and in this new deal and get
[46:00] Speaker 2: a greater share of that which hasn't been added into
[46:03] Speaker 2: the scheme of things, because that's why the global situation
[46:06] Speaker 2: is important to us, because that's where the incremental revenue
[46:09] Speaker 2: can come from. But one thing that I never ever
[46:13] Speaker 2: expected from Vegas, and it was more a fluke, not
[46:16] Speaker 2: not a fluke, but a bonus, was that in the
[46:20] Speaker 2: very first year, the amount of publicity had received in
[46:24] Speaker 2: Australia nationally, not just in New South Wales and Queens
[46:28] Speaker 2: and nationally, gave us momentum that we've never had before
[46:32] Speaker 2: in the game. People that never watched the game watched
[46:36] Speaker 2: the Vegas game. They went from casual fans to being
[46:39] Speaker 2: engaged fans. And that's what Vegas has brought more than
[46:44] Speaker 2: anything else to me, is that two point four million
[46:46] Speaker 2: viewers of growth has a little bit of that has
[46:48] Speaker 2: come from the momentum that Vegas gave us because we
[46:52] Speaker 2: had there was no oxygen left for any other sport
[46:54] Speaker 2: in that period. It was just Vegas, Vegas, Vegas, Vegas.
[46:58] Speaker 2: And in the last couple of years probably hasn't been
[47:00] Speaker 2: as much as the first year. But the momentum that
[47:03] Speaker 2: that gave us you can't buy, you know, and you
[47:07] Speaker 2: can't buy that amount of publicity. You can't buy that
[47:09] Speaker 2: amount of and only Vegas can do that. It's weird.
[47:13] Speaker 2: But the word Vegas is just in itself charismatic, or
[47:18] Speaker 2: it's a bucket list, or it's there's something about it.
[47:22] Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. So it's hard to replicate,
[47:24] Speaker 2: you know, and I've looked at replicating it. You know.
[47:27] Speaker 2: Do we go to Miami, Miami? Maybe, do we go
[47:29] Speaker 2: to New York? You know? And they're the sort of things.
[47:33] Speaker 2: And that's why we're looking at global rounds because we've
[47:36] Speaker 2: got to sell watch NRL. But go to those places
[47:39] Speaker 2: where there's a lot of Australia.
[47:40] Speaker 1: Because what general can be listened to in France or anyway,
[47:43] Speaker 1: Ukraine or Russia or uk.
[47:45] Speaker 2: And we get two hundred and fifty bucks for every time,
[47:47] Speaker 2: and that's there's no extra expense in getting that.
[47:50] Speaker 1: So I know you're a b thinker, and like, I know,
[47:53] Speaker 1: you're not going to sit on your hands. Are you
[47:57] Speaker 1: thinking about a world game? In other words, NERL Australia
[48:03] Speaker 1: owning through whatever structures are rugby league in other places
[48:08] Speaker 1: in the world Right now, I'm not to meet us,
[48:11] Speaker 1: but let's say Europe, well in.
[48:13] Speaker 2: My term, and I know, I don't know how long
[48:15] Speaker 2: I'll be there. There there are plenty. They're the seeds
[48:19] Speaker 2: we want to plant. Yeah, you know, they're the seeds
[48:21] Speaker 2: that we want us to germinate in the future. Is
[48:25] Speaker 2: they're the ones. Yes, I want to see rugby leg
[48:28] Speaker 2: around the world because that's the ultimate, isn't it. If
[48:32] Speaker 2: you can get your sport everywhere in the world in
[48:34] Speaker 2: some fashion, you've achieved.
[48:37] Speaker 1: Certainly in the Pacific you've done that. I mean, I
[48:39] Speaker 1: mean you could have a conference in the Pacific, which
[48:42] Speaker 1: might include New Zealand. Perhaps I don't know, you'd have
[48:44] Speaker 1: a conference in Europe, perhaps in the USA, because there's
[48:47] Speaker 1: a lot of rugby league in USA, not just Vegas.
[48:51] Speaker 1: I mean, there are teams that we have between ruses,
[48:53] Speaker 1: have a team, you can have conferences all around the
[48:55] Speaker 1: joint and end up having you know, the playoffs and
[48:58] Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff.
[48:59] Speaker 2: And that's the ultimate aim, isn't it. I mean, if
[49:01] Speaker 2: you can globalize your game. But as I said, I
[49:05] Speaker 2: think we at the moment we put the seeds in
[49:08] Speaker 2: and then it's something my noster to really come along
[49:10] Speaker 2: and take it to the next level because rugby league's
[49:13] Speaker 2: got unlimited potential, it really does, and we've never ever
[49:17] Speaker 2: reached out potential.
[49:18] Speaker 1: What do you think it is that people who don't
[49:20] Speaker 1: normally follow a rugby league when they see it, what
[49:23] Speaker 1: is it they love about it? For example, did the
[49:25] Speaker 1: Americans say to you, the.
[49:26] Speaker 2: Americans how physical it is? And the first thing they say,
[49:30] Speaker 2: there's no shoulder pads and no helmets like these, you know.
[49:34] Speaker 2: And then when we took the NRLW game, the women's game,
[49:36] Speaker 2: they couldn't believe it. The women hit them. That's one
[49:40] Speaker 2: thing I'm so good Peter, the women's game. It's unbelievable.
[49:43] Speaker 1: The quality.
[49:44] Speaker 2: Look. One of the things that I'm most pleased about
[49:48] Speaker 2: and proud about in my time at the NRL has
[49:50] Speaker 2: been the growth of the women's game. When I first
[49:52] Speaker 2: started there, there was only four teams and everyone was
[49:55] Speaker 2: telling me that, you know, you can't have more than
[49:57] Speaker 2: four and because the girls aren't aren't fit, they're not
[50:01] Speaker 2: you know, they're going to get hurt every excuse under
[50:04] Speaker 2: the sun. But that didn't stop us, you know. So
[50:08] Speaker 2: we're up to twelve teams now and the women at
[50:14] Speaker 2: this stage of their evolution are extraordinary. I've never seen
[50:17] Speaker 2: the skills, are making, skills, their ability, they're brilliant, like
[50:20] Speaker 2: they're really I reckon one day the women's game will
[50:25] Speaker 2: be equal to men. That's what I think, because they're
[50:28] Speaker 2: so good that they're so entertaining. Everything about the women's
[50:34] Speaker 2: the women's State of Origin games, I like them as
[50:36] Speaker 2: much as I like the men's game.
[50:37] Speaker 1: I do to Why do you think it is? It's
[50:39] Speaker 1: funny because I watched women's AFL game. Why it is?
[50:42] Speaker 1: Do you think the NROLW is so much better to
[50:45] Speaker 1: watch than the AFL W. And I don't mean I'm
[50:48] Speaker 1: not having to crack the AFIL. I just mean the
[50:50] Speaker 1: skill base of the women in the AFL just doesn't
[50:52] Speaker 1: look anywhere near the men's. But the skill base and
[50:54] Speaker 1: the women in the Neral is as good as the
[50:56] Speaker 1: men's skill base, especially now there's strength that to speed
[51:01] Speaker 1: their ball handling skills, the way they read the game,
[51:04] Speaker 1: the kicking game like, some of the kicking is better
[51:07] Speaker 1: than I've seen. Some of them are all teams.
[51:09] Speaker 2: Couldn't agree with you more. Look, I'm very excited about
[51:12] Speaker 2: the women's game. It's the one. Look, it's a lost
[51:15] Speaker 2: leader at the moment because we need to build. The
[51:18] Speaker 2: state of Origin does very well, but your week to
[51:20] Speaker 2: week games still need an audience. They still need to grow.
[51:23] Speaker 2: But I think the women are so good that will happen.
[51:27] Speaker 2: It's only a matter of time.
[51:28] Speaker 1: I think they play better as a team. They're much
[51:30] Speaker 1: more team style, especially in the dresses, heads after it.
[51:33] Speaker 1: I mean, I've been down a couple times after the games,
[51:36] Speaker 1: you know. And there's amazing coaches too, and them women's
[51:38] Speaker 1: women's look.
[51:40] Speaker 2: As I said, at this stage of their evolution, they've
[51:43] Speaker 2: exceeded everyone's expectation and that's because of their skill level,
[51:48] Speaker 2: their commitment. No, I think that it will surprise a
[51:54] Speaker 2: lot of people that in there the next fifteen or
[51:56] Speaker 2: twenty years. I'll be on part with them. Men.
[51:58] Speaker 1: There's a great job you've done. There in your team.
[52:00] Speaker 1: You have done there. I just want to wear a
[52:02] Speaker 1: pit of Landers a little bit, and most people don't
[52:04] Speaker 1: know about him. So sometimes you and I chat to
[52:06] Speaker 1: each other about health, and you're very interested in your health.
[52:11] Speaker 1: And I have to commend you on you lost a
[52:14] Speaker 1: lot of weight. You look fantastic. This is sleep, You're
[52:17] Speaker 1: killing it. You look great. What are you interested when
[52:21] Speaker 1: it comes to health? What's really pushing peit of Landers
[52:26] Speaker 1: initially to start looking at your health? I know, I
[52:28] Speaker 1: don't mean just looking at your health, and I mean
[52:30] Speaker 1: just not going and getting a blood panel done from
[52:33] Speaker 1: your doctor. I know you research stuff. What's interesting you most?
[52:37] Speaker 1: What are you learning?
[52:39] Speaker 2: The thing I've learned the most capes that come from
[52:41] Speaker 2: you initially initially, and that is sleep. When your mind
[52:47] Speaker 2: goes a million miles an hour, which yours does, you
[52:51] Speaker 2: can't sleep, and if you do sleep, you wake up
[52:53] Speaker 2: at two o'clock in the morning and then can't get
[52:55] Speaker 2: back to sleep. And sleep is the foundation to your health.
[52:58] Speaker 2: If you know, if you don't sleep, you'll get dementia,
[53:01] Speaker 2: You've got no energy, your moody, everything, it's the foundation.
[53:07] Speaker 2: So I needed to get my sleep right. That was
[53:08] Speaker 2: the very first thing. I've always been big on going
[53:13] Speaker 2: to the gym and doing those sort of things. So
[53:15] Speaker 2: I had the best gym equipment you've ever seen, but
[53:18] Speaker 2: the only exercise I got was dusting it. I never
[53:20] Speaker 2: I never actually had time to use it. So I
[53:23] Speaker 2: then thought to myself, I've got to discipline myself into
[53:27] Speaker 2: using it. And when I started using it, it's like
[53:30] Speaker 2: and because when you start, it's the hardest part. But
[53:35] Speaker 2: then I got obsessed with it, so I lost the weight.
[53:39] Speaker 2: I realized that, you know, as you get older, your
[53:42] Speaker 2: muscle wastes, and then all my research shows that cognitive
[53:48] Speaker 2: function has caused by muscle waste, you know, so if
[53:51] Speaker 2: your muscle wastes, so does your brain. And as you
[53:56] Speaker 2: build muscle, your brain stays alert. So and I also
[54:02] Speaker 2: read that most people, as they get older, they die
[54:05] Speaker 2: because their muscles aren't fit enough to so they fall.
[54:11] Speaker 2: Lose your functionality, lose your functionality. So once you fall,
[54:14] Speaker 2: you don't die from the fall. You die because your
[54:18] Speaker 2: brains slow down, because it's because you've had to recuperate
[54:21] Speaker 2: from the fall, and you can't move, and you can't move,
[54:23] Speaker 2: so your whole life, so that the one bit of
[54:27] Speaker 2: advice that I'd give anyone is to make sure that
[54:30] Speaker 2: you do work to improve your muscle mass, because your
[54:35] Speaker 2: muscle mass is everything, especially and the one that we
[54:37] Speaker 2: all ignore is the legs. If you continue your leg
[54:44] Speaker 2: you'll have strength for the rest of your life. So
[54:46] Speaker 2: you basically keep your balance because as you get older,
[54:48] Speaker 2: you lose your balance. That's why you fall. And if
[54:50] Speaker 2: you have muscle, you avoid that, and that's that's important.
[54:56] Speaker 1: So you have I mean, for example, on your legs,
[54:58] Speaker 1: would you be doing squats?
[55:00] Speaker 2: So you do squat's leg press and all the different ones.
[55:05] Speaker 2: And what I do now is I do one day
[55:08] Speaker 2: upper body, one day lower body, and it's and the
[55:11] Speaker 2: more you do it, the more you once you start
[55:14] Speaker 2: seeing results motivates you. So I started seeing these results.
[55:17] Speaker 2: You know, I look different, you know, I've lost all
[55:20] Speaker 2: this weight. I felt better, I slept better. So the
[55:25] Speaker 2: more the more that I was feeling better, the more
[55:27] Speaker 2: research I did. So then you supplement it with the diet,
[55:32] Speaker 2: you know, And I can see how people become obsessed
[55:34] Speaker 2: with it, you know, And because I've become obsessed with it,
[55:36] Speaker 2: so I listen all the podcasts I listen, I watch
[55:39] Speaker 2: all the long activity shows, and you learn something every
[55:44] Speaker 2: single day from those areas. And nutrition is very big.
[55:49] Speaker 2: You've got to make sure that you know you're taking
[55:51] Speaker 2: the right vitamins, you're you're eating the right foods, cut
[55:54] Speaker 2: the carbs, increase your protein. I don't I to enjoy
[56:00] Speaker 2: a social drink, but now I don't drink at all
[56:03] Speaker 2: because one of the things I learned is that alcohol
[56:05] Speaker 2: is the worst thing you can have, you know, even
[56:07] Speaker 2: a beer, it's it really has such a bad effect
[56:11] Speaker 2: on you that I've cut it all. I've cut sugars,
[56:15] Speaker 2: which I really loved, but process sugar is another alcohol
[56:19] Speaker 2: and sugars. If you cut those two, you add another
[56:23] Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years of life.
[56:24] Speaker 1: And you drop weight really quick, drop weight really quick.
[56:26] Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy because when you drink
[56:29] Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, you'll end up beating pretty crap.
[56:32] Speaker 1: So they will sort of roll into each other. And
[56:35] Speaker 1: I remember, I think for the AUDIENCEM Pete and I
[56:39] Speaker 1: first started talking about this probably in the very first
[56:41] Speaker 1: Vegas trip in twenty four, twenty.
[56:45] Speaker 2: Four bags twenty five things. The first one YEA and I.
[56:48] Speaker 1: Remember abdo was I remember telling Andrew about saunas, and
[56:52] Speaker 1: Andrew went out and bought one. He went in and
[56:54] Speaker 1: bought an in for red sauna. I mean, are you
[56:55] Speaker 1: using saunas? You know?
[56:57] Speaker 2: I went and got an infra red sauna too, did
[56:58] Speaker 2: you good? I I find it hard to find time
[57:03] Speaker 2: for the sauna, yeah, because there's only so much you
[57:06] Speaker 2: can do.
[57:06] Speaker 1: But is it because you can't sit in there for
[57:08] Speaker 1: further twenty minutes and not do anything, because you can
[57:10] Speaker 1: do put your phone on.
[57:12] Speaker 2: No, you're right, I'm hype. So it's difficult for me
[57:17] Speaker 2: to sit there for twenty minutes. That's just me. Yeah,
[57:21] Speaker 2: so that I find that a bit tough, yea, because I.
[57:24] Speaker 1: Do want to explain something to the audience. I'm about
[57:28] Speaker 1: a person like Peter, and I sort of recognize it
[57:30] Speaker 1: when I first normen a first one man a period
[57:33] Speaker 1: of time. Peter has a sort of brain And excuse
[57:37] Speaker 1: me for saying this, but there is a thing in
[57:39] Speaker 1: our brain called erection and comes from the group WAD
[57:40] Speaker 1: to REXI. But it's sort of like which means appetite,
[57:43] Speaker 1: but it's a thing that's sort of it keeps us
[57:47] Speaker 1: aware there's a molecule that a brain neurons produced. It
[57:49] Speaker 1: keeps us aware, and it keeps us hungry for information,
[57:53] Speaker 1: for data, and arecsent is a sort of thing that
[57:56] Speaker 1: if you don't control it when you go to sleep,
[58:00] Speaker 1: it'll keep you awake because you're going and every little
[58:03] Speaker 1: noise you hear, you wake up and you will never
[58:05] Speaker 1: sleep soundly. Peter's talking about deep sleep, importance of deep sleep,
[58:10] Speaker 1: and he and I discovered it's not a sleeping pill.
[58:14] Speaker 1: It's just an assistant that actually deals with this arecs
[58:18] Speaker 1: and thing, and it actually helps me sleep and helps
[58:23] Speaker 1: you sleep only on times when I'm wound up. And
[58:26] Speaker 1: I can get wound up like everybody. You can too.
[58:29] Speaker 1: But we've got to work out ways in terms of
[58:31] Speaker 1: our health. What Peter has of controlling our weakness and
[58:35] Speaker 1: playing to our strengths. See, something that's really good about
[58:38] Speaker 1: you is that you're intellectually very flexible in that what
[58:42] Speaker 1: I mean by that as you're prepared to learn new shit.
[58:44] Speaker 1: You don't go that's a way I've always done it,
[58:49] Speaker 1: and that's why it's going to be no you are like,
[58:51] Speaker 1: for example, six again, and you said earlier on, we
[58:55] Speaker 1: can't just sit back and say everything's so good. We've
[58:57] Speaker 1: done the new deal it's about what can I learn
[59:00] Speaker 1: out maybe the next deal? Do you think maybe the
[59:03] Speaker 1: next deal you might be talking on Netflix?
[59:06] Speaker 2: Absolutely, the next one will be the streamers for sure,
[59:09] Speaker 2: for certain. But now the di Vito is I think
[59:13] Speaker 2: it's called you put me onto that, Yes, which is
[59:15] Speaker 2: the best thing I've ever put anyone's ever put me on,
[59:17] Speaker 2: and I put it onto twe other hundred people. Yeah,
[59:20] Speaker 2: because there's sleep and there's sleep, because if you don't
[59:25] Speaker 2: get deep sleep, you're wasting your time. You need rem
[59:28] Speaker 2: sleep and deep sleep. Yeah, that's why we wear these
[59:30] Speaker 2: rings and everything to tell us. I think Apple Watch
[59:34] Speaker 2: now does it?
[59:35] Speaker 1: It tells you your deep sleep, slow wave sleep is
[59:38] Speaker 1: very important because that's when that's when you're clearing out
[59:41] Speaker 1: of your brain. We make sure it helps give us
[59:43] Speaker 1: the best chance of avoiding dementia exactly.
[59:45] Speaker 2: So if you don't get deep sleep, the toxins don't
[59:49] Speaker 2: leave the brain cells, and that's what causes Alzheimer's disease
[59:52] Speaker 2: and dementia. So I now take the veto every night,
[59:57] Speaker 2: and it's the best thing I've ever done because it
[59:59] Speaker 2: gives me that deep sleep.
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: What is it that drives a personally you to keep learning?
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: About not any regularly, not only sick again, not only
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: should we bring in pap in your guinea, not only
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: should we do a geopolitical deal in papping in New
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: Guinea and blah blah blah, but also how to improve
[1:00:15] Speaker 1: my health? I mean, what is it that drives on lead?
[1:00:17] Speaker 1: Where does it come from?
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: Mate? I think, well, first off, you've got to drive
[1:00:22] Speaker 2: yourself about your health. Your health is if you don't
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: have your health, you've got nothing. Basically, if you're sick
[1:00:27] Speaker 2: or your crooked, well, so you need to you need
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: to be at one hundred percent all the time. And
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: that's why I think doctors are conservative. That's the problem.
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of things that you can
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: be prescribed that's going to improve your quality of life,
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: and the quality of life is important to everybody. Why
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: have a pain when you don't need to have Why
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: be in pain when you don't need to be in pain.
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: Why do you need to be moody if you don't
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: need to be moody? Why do you need to have dementia?
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: You know, So I research every current thing that comes
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: onto the market like one of the ones that people
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: should look at. And doctors are very conservative. About is
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: testosterone for men? You know, once you give it past
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: forty you need to go and do blood tests to
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: see a lot of a lot of men's ailments come
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: from lack a testosterone.
[1:01:12] Speaker 1: It's not just it's not just for muscle buildings, for
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: a whole lot of stuff.
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: It's everything. Sleep, for example, your whole body relies on
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: that testosterone, and if you go below a certain level,
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: you become moody. Everything changes, Your skin change the whole,
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: your whole body changes. Doesn't is malfunctions, But for some
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: reason doctors are reluctant to prescribe it, you know, and
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: as a hormonal thing as now, to be fair, it
[1:01:41] Speaker 2: can you know, create prostate can so, but only on
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: men that are susceptible to it. So if you do
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: tests for it, but there's more benefit in it than
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: there is detriment, you know. So they're the sort of
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: things that I just you know, having deep sleep is very,
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: very important, and but doctors won't prescribe it. I just
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: find it a little bit surprising how conservative they are.
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: But there's your style of thinking, Peter, is that I
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: won't rely on the traditional process. I'm now going to
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: do the research and I'm going to go back to
[1:02:16] Speaker 1: the traditional process and tell them what to do. For
[1:02:19] Speaker 1: example six Again, I'm not going to rely on the
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: traditional process where we barje our basham wrestling on the ground,
[1:02:25] Speaker 1: don't release them, crush them, blah blah blah. You go
[1:02:28] Speaker 1: and do some research, change your mind, you get bab
[1:02:31] Speaker 1: your gun, change your mind, your openness to this as
[1:02:35] Speaker 1: well as you know the process is associated with your health.
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: Where does that style of thinking come from.
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: I think it comes with life, to be honest with you,
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: I think as you grow older, as you experience life. Look,
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: I had an objective as a young person, you know,
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: and so I wanted to reach that objective. You set
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: yourself again, ambition and ambition because I remember, I'll never
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: forget this. I remember my year twelve teacher, a commerce teacher,
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: it was, grabbed me out in the front of the
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: class and said, this is Peter val Andy's He's the
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: least person I expect to succeed. WHOA He said, if
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: there's a person in this class that I know will
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: not succeed, I can tell you he's the one how
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: to make you feel. And it made me feel like shit,
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: like it made me terrible but you don't remember many
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: things in your school, but I remember that those exact words. Now,
[1:03:31] Speaker 2: I thought to myself, he's done that to motivate me.
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: He's done that to drive me on. So years later
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: he called me, you know when I had some success,
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: and he says, Peter, I didn't do that to drive you.
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: I genuinely believed it. And I said to him, all,
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: why would you say it who? Why would you say
[1:03:47] Speaker 2: it to somebody? He said, because I don't know, He said,
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: I had this. If I had to tell you what
[1:03:54] Speaker 2: I thought, I said, well, it wasn't a very nice
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: thing your thought. But that did drive me, so in
[1:03:59] Speaker 2: an indirect it worked. It worked though, even though he
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: didn't intend it that way. That never left my mind.
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: And I had two Greek parents who worked eighteen hours
[1:04:11] Speaker 2: a day. They worked. Theyn't worked, they worked. I never
[1:04:14] Speaker 2: saw them. My dad would go to work, as it
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: still works, that still works. He'd go at six o'clock.
[1:04:19] Speaker 1: He's ember Port Kemberley, at Port Kilmer.
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: He's supposed to finish the three but never did he
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: do a double it till midnight and do the same
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: again the next night. And that was to give me
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: a chance to give me and my brothers a chance.
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: My mother worked from seven o'clock in the morning to
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: seven o'clock at night every night to give us a chance. Well,
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: I wanted to return their investment if I wanted to
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: be somebody do something for them. So they they all
[1:04:47] Speaker 2: that hard life they had led to something. So that
[1:04:52] Speaker 2: drove me more than anything.
[1:04:53] Speaker 1: Girls, It's not just Roaby League you've made massive changes
[1:04:58] Speaker 1: for it's also in the racing, I mean leg you've
[1:05:01] Speaker 1: basically taken on Melbourne racing, fraternity, Melton Cup, et cetera.
[1:05:06] Speaker 1: And you've introduced a whole series of events here us
[1:05:09] Speaker 1: in New South Wales that have in some respects even
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: eclipsed Melbourne. It's the same deal.
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And and that was you know, that
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: was the template for me with rugby league was racing.
[1:05:25] Speaker 2: We couldn't compete against Victoria and for some reason we'd
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: given up and I didn't give up, you know, is
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: that we had to find some way to compete and
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: we did, you know. And one thing that sports do
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: wrong and businesses do wrong, they forget the younger demographic.
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: And so we brought events that were designed for the
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: under thirties and it was called the Everest and eighty
[1:05:49] Speaker 2: percent of our audience is under thirty. Wow, So it's
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: you know, and it's it's the first time that we've
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: had sellouts at race meetings is the Everest. And the
[1:05:59] Speaker 2: irony was that of the audience in the Victorian Racing
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: Carnival came from New South Wales. Wow, of our audience
[1:06:08] Speaker 2: that the Everest comes from Victoria and when you went,
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: that's that's extraordinary. I'll tell you why. Because Victorians are
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: very parochial. The one thing that they are the best
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: at is how they support their own state and support
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: their own sports, support their own industries. They are extremely parochial.
[1:06:27] Speaker 2: In New South Wales, we're not so parochial, you know,
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: we sort of go everywhere and do everything. So to
[1:06:34] Speaker 2: get them to come to the Everest was really one
[1:06:38] Speaker 2: of the highlights for me is that you know, I've
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: actually got Victorians coming to New South Wales.
[1:06:43] Speaker 1: We're talking leaving the state. What about the Grand Final?
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: Is Chris Apholly going to get get one over Chris Mins.
[1:06:50] Speaker 2: Look, I'm a big fan of Chris Mins. So he's
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: one of the best premiers we've had and I've known
[1:06:56] Speaker 2: more so.
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: David's a pretty cool guy, too good David.
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: He's Italian, so that doesn't help him to start, but
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: it sounds like your Greek name, Christopher does. So he
[1:07:05] Speaker 2: keeps telling me that he's Italian, so I think, keep
[1:07:08] Speaker 2: thinking he's going to violin case at some point in
[1:07:10] Speaker 2: time he's going to bring out. But he is a
[1:07:12] Speaker 2: great guy, David, and he's passionate about Queensland, so you.
[1:07:17] Speaker 1: Keep the tension there.
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. Look, at the end of the day,
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: I've got to do what's best for the NRL, but
[1:07:22] Speaker 2: there is a sense of law due to our premiere
[1:07:25] Speaker 2: and to my state. But I understand that Queensland is
[1:07:30] Speaker 2: a bigger rugby league status in New South Wales. Well
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: part of landis. I've said it before. I know you
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: got a long way ahead of you, but you are
[1:07:40] Speaker 2: Australia's greatest sports administrator. Thanks very much, mate, Thank you
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: very much. The three KLM words mate. So next time
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: we'll do a health podcast.
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: We should

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