# Rosie O'Donnell - part 2

An episode of [Drama Queens](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1571792783), 17 Jul 2026, 29 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/e53aefd3-699f-4685-9a84-aed700f383fa/e1ec761b-86bf-4e3f-8eeb-b488005c68e4/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=cf2e6477-1a1d-4442-8b33-ae320005bb63

More with Rosie O'Donnell as she shares the heartbreaking reason she came out publicly in 2002 and what raising a child with autism has taught her about parenting and acceptance. Plus, hear all about her new one-woman show and what fans can expect when she fills in as host on Jimmy Kimmel Live! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
[0:15] Speaker 1: back Whipsmarties. Let's dive right back into our fantastic conversation
[0:20] Speaker 1: with Rosie O'Donnell. When you came out in public, I mean, yes,
[0:25] Speaker 1: all bets were kind of off societally. I think people
[0:28] Speaker 1: realized so much of what they thought they cared about
[0:30] Speaker 1: was bullsh after nine to eleven happened, Like what are
[0:33] Speaker 1: we fighting about? Look what happens in the world.
[0:36] Speaker 2: You know.
[0:37] Speaker 1: It's it's that seismic experience of when you have a
[0:39] Speaker 1: death in the family and then everyone stops fighting. You're like,
[0:42] Speaker 1: I can't believe we waste it all this time. But
[0:44] Speaker 1: it was still I mean, it was still a risk.
[0:48] Speaker 1: Like I remember watching Ellen and she came out and
[0:53] Speaker 1: her show got canceled, Like I remember those things.
[0:56] Speaker 2: Yes, but I came out because we had a foster
[1:00] Speaker 2: child that we were not allowed to adopt, and because
[1:05] Speaker 2: we were gay. And there were two male nurses, Lofton
[1:10] Speaker 2: and Cruteau, who had taken AIDS babies during the AIDS
[1:15] Speaker 2: crisis when the parents had both died of drug addiction,
[1:18] Speaker 2: taken the HIV positive children and adopt it. Fostered them,
[1:23] Speaker 2: and then some of them zero converted to negative because
[1:28] Speaker 2: of their care and treatment, and sometimes that happens with babies.
[1:33] Speaker 2: So they went adopt the fourteen year old that had
[1:36] Speaker 2: Cyril converted as a toddler, and the Florida state government
[1:41] Speaker 2: wouldn't allow them to adopt the child that they raised
[1:47] Speaker 2: because he was now a viable adoption and they didn't
[1:52] Speaker 2: want gay people to adopt it, so they couldn't even
[1:56] Speaker 2: adopt the foster child they raised. And that was exactly
[1:59] Speaker 2: the position I was in. I could not adopt the
[2:01] Speaker 2: foster child I raised because I'm gay, So my choice
[2:05] Speaker 2: would be to lie are you now or have you
[2:08] Speaker 2: ever been? A homosexual? To lie on the court papers.
[2:12] Speaker 2: Therefore maybe having strange people try to nullify the adoption,
[2:16] Speaker 2: and it would have been probably nullified because I am
[2:19] Speaker 2: a lesbian and there's you know, nothing's going to change that.
[2:23] Speaker 2: I mean, I don't expect any changes. But look at
[2:25] Speaker 2: Jojo Siwa, but she is very she's a very young person.
[2:30] Speaker 1: You know, she's finding herself.
[2:32] Speaker 2: She's figuring stuff out. That's what I say. I mean,
[2:36] Speaker 2: every gay woman I know has a dalliance with men
[2:39] Speaker 2: at some time. I mean, there's very few gold star lesbians,
[2:42] Speaker 2: as they call themselves.
[2:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, I know a few, but not a lot. I mean,
[2:46] Speaker 1: I spent a very long time thinking I was just
[2:48] Speaker 1: a bisexual woman out here. Turns out yeah, I don't
[2:52] Speaker 1: think so.
[2:53] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, it's hard to telling ourselves, right,
[2:56] Speaker 2: it's hard to figure out. You know. In my show,
[2:59] Speaker 2: I talked about my daughter saying to me, are you
[3:02] Speaker 2: non binary? And I said no? And they said are
[3:07] Speaker 2: you sure? And I said yes, And they said, then
[3:10] Speaker 2: what are you? And I said, I'm an og lesbian bitch.
[3:16] Speaker 2: Bitch's pejorative, especially for a feminist even years old.
[3:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, You're like, let me have my terms.
[3:25] Speaker 2: Well I was just like, that's a pretty elaborate thought
[3:28] Speaker 2: process for it. I'm little bit to go to.
[3:30] Speaker 1: But for an eleven year old to know pejorative in
[3:33] Speaker 1: the first place is already wildly impressive.
[3:35] Speaker 2: Well. She has a thing called hyperlexia, which means and echolalia,
[3:40] Speaker 2: two things that a lot of autistic kids have. One
[3:43] Speaker 2: of them is when there's like a tape recorder in
[3:45] Speaker 2: your brain. This is echolalia, and if you hear something,
[3:51] Speaker 2: your brain records it and then you can recite it.
[3:55] Speaker 2: In the dialect that you heard it. Wow. So she
[3:59] Speaker 2: was at school and the boy kept calling her psycho.
[4:03] Speaker 2: So I asked the teacher which was the father, and
[4:06] Speaker 2: they told me. I went over to the father, introduced
[4:08] Speaker 2: myself and said, why does your kid call my kid
[4:12] Speaker 2: a psycho? And he goes, listen, it's very upsetting. But
[4:14] Speaker 2: my son is very sensitive and she tells them scary stories.
[4:19] Speaker 2: I said, really, I've never heard her tell a scary story.
[4:21] Speaker 2: What's the scary story? Says where's waldough? Se where's the
[4:26] Speaker 2: striped shirt? How scary is Where's Waldo? He goes, that's
[4:29] Speaker 2: what he tells me. I go home. I say, Clay,
[4:32] Speaker 2: do you have a story? Where's Waldo? She said yeah?
[4:35] Speaker 2: I tell her at school a lot. Half the kids
[4:37] Speaker 2: like it, half the kids hate it. Those are pretty
[4:39] Speaker 2: good odds. I said, yeah, you're right, there's a pretty
[4:42] Speaker 2: good odds. Can you tell me the story? She says, yeah.
[4:46] Speaker 2: She takes a breath. She goes, it was a dark
[4:48] Speaker 2: and dreamy night in the bowels of the kingdom. The
[4:51] Speaker 2: dungeons were full of stink from rets and fitting. I
[4:55] Speaker 2: said to a stop, stop, what are you doing? She said,
[4:58] Speaker 2: that's that's the story of of where it's Waldo. That's
[5:01] Speaker 2: how it begins, and she can recite the entire thing
[5:07] Speaker 2: that's called echolalia. And then she has hyperlexia. When she
[5:11] Speaker 2: was in second grade, the teacher said, we have to
[5:13] Speaker 2: test her vocabulary. They give kids in second grade one
[5:16] Speaker 2: hundred words, and she got ninety nine right and the
[5:20] Speaker 2: only word she got wrong was broom and that's because
[5:23] Speaker 2: she said a sweeper because she used to watch pepper
[5:26] Speaker 2: Pig and that's what they called on pepper Pig. And
[5:30] Speaker 2: when she was two to four and a half, she
[5:32] Speaker 2: spoke with a British accent where people would say, we'd
[5:37] Speaker 2: be at the park and she'd say, Mommy, might I
[5:39] Speaker 2: have a spot of tea? And the woman would say,
[5:43] Speaker 2: you adopted from London. I said, no, she's from Texas.
[5:49] Speaker 2: She has autism, echalia and hyperlexia.
[5:53] Speaker 1: Wow.
[5:55] Speaker 2: So she's like this little.
[5:57] Speaker 1: She's like a little linguistic prodigy.
[5:59] Speaker 2: Yes, incredible, and she has you know, she has moderate autism.
[6:05] Speaker 2: You know, not people say hers is very light. I'm
[6:08] Speaker 2: like their's is very light. I'm like, no, it's actually moderate.
[6:12] Speaker 2: And you know, I just don't always discuss the more
[6:16] Speaker 2: difficult stuff because I feel as though, you know, that's
[6:22] Speaker 2: her business. The light that I show her in is
[6:24] Speaker 2: the brilliance of her.
[6:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course, is it an interesting thing to have
[6:30] Speaker 1: a young one with neuro difference because one of the
[6:36] Speaker 1: things that fascinates me even learning about my own where
[6:39] Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's not just me, Like these are interesting, Okay,
[6:44] Speaker 1: nothing like being an overachiever who gets diagnosed in your forties.
[6:47] Speaker 1: That's a fun journey.
[6:48] Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
[6:50] Speaker 1: I think about what it must be like to be
[6:52] Speaker 1: a kid learning how your brain works. Now because there's
[6:56] Speaker 1: so much research. I mean, even like a few months ago,
[6:59] Speaker 1: researchers believe that they've proven that ADHD is a developmental advantage,
[7:06] Speaker 1: and they sort of went through the whole reasoning of
[7:08] Speaker 1: this and what it offers in terms of creative problem
[7:11] Speaker 1: solving and how ADHD brains helped us survive crazier times
[7:16] Speaker 1: when there weren't guaranteed resources, and like, I wish I'd
[7:19] Speaker 1: known this.
[7:20] Speaker 2: I completely believe that. Wow. Yeah, I always tell people,
[7:25] Speaker 2: you know, add has really worked for me. Yea, So
[7:28] Speaker 2: you know, I don't know what to tell you. But
[7:31] Speaker 2: when I was on my show the University of Seattle,
[7:35] Speaker 2: I believe It was a Bill Gates study was doing
[7:38] Speaker 2: all this autism research, and they called and sent a letter.
[7:42] Speaker 2: They wanted to test me for autism because of my
[7:45] Speaker 2: ability to retain lyrics and ingles and songs, and they said,
[7:51] Speaker 2: it's really not normal what you're able to do. And
[7:53] Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, that's exciting, but I have a
[7:56] Speaker 2: kid and I can't I'm doing a show. I can't
[7:59] Speaker 2: really to be tested for three days and in case
[8:02] Speaker 2: I might have autism, which at the time, you know,
[8:05] Speaker 2: I didn't think twice about it, But now that I've
[8:07] Speaker 2: been raising this child, I go, I see. You know,
[8:12] Speaker 2: I used to think all my friends who had kids
[8:15] Speaker 2: who were autistic, I thought I should be the one
[8:18] Speaker 2: to get an autistic kid. I would understand. And I
[8:21] Speaker 2: think I do the way that you have to if
[8:25] Speaker 2: you're an autism parent, and you learn your own language
[8:32] Speaker 2: and routines with them that are often misunderstood by people
[8:35] Speaker 2: who love you and love the child. Yes, you know,
[8:38] Speaker 2: like my child sleeps in the bed with me still
[8:41] Speaker 2: and they're thirteen, and it's exhausting. It's exhausting to not,
[8:49] Speaker 2: you know, to be hit with, you know, a kid,
[8:52] Speaker 2: you know, not in a violent way. Just sleeping. Sleeping.
[8:56] Speaker 1: Kids are very active.
[8:58] Speaker 2: Very active, and you know a lot of people have
[9:02] Speaker 2: judgment in my world and say, you know, you have
[9:04] Speaker 2: to do this, you have to do that. And I
[9:06] Speaker 2: thought she was out now she was out for about
[9:09] Speaker 2: six months, and then I went away to Australia to
[9:12] Speaker 2: work for three weeks. And when I came back back
[9:15] Speaker 2: in the bed right. So everyone that I talk to,
[9:19] Speaker 2: all of our helpers, everyone says, when they're ready, they
[9:25] Speaker 2: will go, I'll go, and then that will be that.
[9:29] Speaker 2: Don't worry, this is not going to be you know,
[9:32] Speaker 2: they're going to end up their whole life doing this.
[9:34] Speaker 1: You know, right, what a gift though to be in
[9:38] Speaker 1: this time. You know that your kid gets to be
[9:41] Speaker 1: raised by you, because if if you were your kid's
[9:45] Speaker 1: age with your parents, you might not have been given
[9:48] Speaker 1: the patience, no, no, to develop in the way you
[9:52] Speaker 1: needed to.
[9:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone thought that you have to be stricter with
[9:57] Speaker 2: these kids. My kids think that too, They're like, you
[10:00] Speaker 2: have to be stricter with them. I'm like, listen, you guys,
[10:04] Speaker 2: this is a different situation. You guys didn't sleep with me.
[10:08] Speaker 2: Remember what do you think I changed as a mom?
[10:11] Speaker 2: Or did the kid change what's and there's a diagnosis
[10:16] Speaker 2: you know, yeah, there's a doctor's diagnosis of this. This
[10:20] Speaker 2: is someone who does not have Apple software. They have
[10:25] Speaker 2: some strange computer that you have to figure out how
[10:28] Speaker 2: to use, and it's not one you've ever seen before,
[10:33] Speaker 2: and you're not good at coding, and you don't know
[10:36] Speaker 2: the lab and you just keep freaking hitting the keys
[10:40] Speaker 2: and trying this and trying that, and you know, and
[10:45] Speaker 2: mostly their self esteem. Now, if I were to send
[10:50] Speaker 2: you pictures of how they just went out, We're here
[10:53] Speaker 2: in the Jersey Shore and we are doing a family
[10:57] Speaker 2: two weeks hang out at the Jersey Shore, and my
[11:02] Speaker 2: son who just had a baby, and his wife are
[11:04] Speaker 2: coming with the baby who's three months old. So that's unbelievable.
[11:09] Speaker 2: But we were at the Jersey Shore and she had
[11:12] Speaker 2: on a green wig, she's thirteen goggles and leather gloves
[11:19] Speaker 2: it's eighty five degrees and a skirt and boots, different
[11:24] Speaker 2: kinds of she addresses like Cyndi Lauper in nineteen eighty.
[11:27] Speaker 1: I was going to say this, this feels very Betsy Johnson
[11:29] Speaker 1: Cyndy Lauper. Yes, yes, yes.
[11:31] Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty so cool. Yeah, so many artists I know
[11:36] Speaker 2: have ADHD autism spectrum, they have something, they have some
[11:40] Speaker 2: four letter three little ditty. And you know, figuring out
[11:44] Speaker 2: yourself is a life journey. You know, it's not like you.
[11:47] Speaker 2: Oh well, that's what I am. So therefore I stop
[11:49] Speaker 2: growing and I just stay in this one definition of
[11:53] Speaker 2: who I am. But moving to Ireland really forced me
[11:58] Speaker 2: to step back out of my comfort zone.
[12:01] Speaker 1: You know, I was going to ask if some of
[12:03] Speaker 1: this feels related to getting so far outside the system
[12:08] Speaker 1: you've been used to, because a different brain is, to
[12:11] Speaker 1: your point, a different operating system. And I'm so curious
[12:15] Speaker 1: what it's been like to live overseas and outside of
[12:21] Speaker 1: this sort of American ness we're all so steeped in.
[12:25] Speaker 2: Well, you know the greatest thing about it is the
[12:27] Speaker 2: lack of celebrity culture in Ireland, because you know, people
[12:34] Speaker 2: would say to us, welcome Clay, welcome Rosie, you belong
[12:39] Speaker 2: here in Ireland. Never can I have a picture? Can
[12:42] Speaker 2: I have? So Clay and I go to this place
[12:46] Speaker 2: and where it's an outdoor place, we can get a
[12:49] Speaker 2: burger and couple next to us with a little baby
[12:53] Speaker 2: and Clay's playing with the baby and me and the
[12:55] Speaker 2: couple are talking. So it turns out we sort of
[12:57] Speaker 2: had dinner together, but not at the same tabe really close.
[13:00] Speaker 2: And yeah, after about two hours they said, thank you
[13:04] Speaker 2: for talking to us, Rosie and I just want to
[13:07] Speaker 2: let you know we're both big fans. And I said, oh,
[13:09] Speaker 2: you just thought you'd bring it up here at the
[13:11] Speaker 2: end of the dinner. And he goes, well, it's not
[13:13] Speaker 2: the most important thing, no, is it? And I was
[13:17] Speaker 2: like a sentence never heard in America. Wow. And so
[13:21] Speaker 2: there's a lack of celebrity culture which allows you to
[13:24] Speaker 2: be seen and live as a full, completely integrated person,
[13:29] Speaker 2: you know, with no none of the tendrils of fame
[13:36] Speaker 2: right right. It drags behind you sometimes, and you know,
[13:40] Speaker 2: it's very hard to talk about because in America it's
[13:43] Speaker 2: held up as the be all, end all. So if
[13:45] Speaker 2: you say anything about it that you know, people are
[13:48] Speaker 2: getting mad.
[13:48] Speaker 1: You know, God forbids you complain.
[13:51] Speaker 2: You're ruining my dream of what it is. Just be
[13:53] Speaker 2: quiet and be happy you're there, you know.
[13:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors who make
[13:58] Speaker 1: this show possible. That thing that you said, you know,
[14:12] Speaker 1: to be able to really be a full, an integrated human,
[14:17] Speaker 1: what I think people don't understand is that the box
[14:21] Speaker 1: like it clamps around you and then it squeezes, you know,
[14:24] Speaker 1: like like one of those Indiana Jones kind of scenes
[14:28] Speaker 1: where the rocks are getting closer. And doesn't mean you
[14:32] Speaker 1: don't love what you do. It means you love it
[14:33] Speaker 1: so much that you put up with the weirdness of
[14:36] Speaker 1: people not treating you like a person anymore.
[14:39] Speaker 2: But sometimes it's gone before you know it. Right now,
[14:43] Speaker 2: it can be gone in a flash, like mine was
[14:45] Speaker 2: gone after the first day of my show.
[14:48] Speaker 1: Wow, really just overnight.
[14:51] Speaker 2: Overnight.
[14:52] Speaker 1: Holy Now.
[14:53] Speaker 2: I had done a bunch of movies I had, you know.
[14:55] Speaker 1: So it was different.
[14:57] Speaker 2: I was not known, but to be superno and in
[15:01] Speaker 2: the category with someone as powerful and meteor aesque as
[15:06] Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey. Yeah, oh, I mean that's a pretty powerful soul. Yes,
[15:14] Speaker 2: in every way that you can measure it.
[15:18] Speaker 1: You know, when you think about getting some of your
[15:23] Speaker 1: personhood back over there in a way, do you think
[15:28] Speaker 1: the space Ireland gave you is why you're ready to
[15:30] Speaker 1: come back and do your next show.
[15:34] Speaker 2: I think the space Ireland gave me made me want
[15:38] Speaker 2: to come back and see my son's baby. And I
[15:42] Speaker 2: had been doing it in Australia, in Scotland, and I
[15:48] Speaker 2: had been doing it in Europe, so I've done about
[15:50] Speaker 2: fifty or sixty show performances of it already.
[15:53] Speaker 1: My god, I didn't realize.
[15:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. So then when I'm going to be in America
[15:58] Speaker 2: to see my son's baby, I said, can we just
[16:01] Speaker 2: do like, you know, four, like twelve shows, maybe four
[16:05] Speaker 2: a week and in a little theater. Daryl Roth, who's
[16:09] Speaker 2: a big Broadway producer I've worked with before and I
[16:12] Speaker 2: really enjoy her. She's just one another Tony and so
[16:15] Speaker 2: she said, you know, let me present it and we'll
[16:18] Speaker 2: do twelve shows. What do you say? And you know,
[16:21] Speaker 2: so we're going to do that, and you know, I
[16:27] Speaker 2: wanted to see with the changes that I've made because
[16:31] Speaker 2: the play is essentially a love letter to Ireland, it
[16:36] Speaker 2: really is, and so I had to take out a
[16:39] Speaker 2: lot of the Irish stuff. The second part of the
[16:42] Speaker 2: show is really much more about all the Irish stuff, right,
[16:48] Speaker 2: And it starts with the day my mother died and
[16:51] Speaker 2: it ends with the last day I saw her. So
[16:54] Speaker 2: there are very sad parts in it as well, and
[16:57] Speaker 2: sometimes people in the audience cry, you know, and where
[17:00] Speaker 2: they're very startled at the beginning when that's how it starts.
[17:03] Speaker 2: They're like, right, wa, wait a minute, isn't it supposed to
[17:06] Speaker 2: be a comedy.
[17:07] Speaker 1: Show, right, They're like, wait, Rosie, you're.
[17:09] Speaker 2: So where's the trump jokes? Right? Right?
[17:13] Speaker 1: Right? We thought we thought you were gonna call him patty.
[17:17] Speaker 2: Little bit exactly, come on, do it? Do it?
[17:21] Speaker 1: Yeah? Wow? Well, so you kick off next week in
[17:27] Speaker 1: New York Wednesday, the twenty second. What do you think
[17:30] Speaker 1: it's going to feel like to be back in New
[17:32] Speaker 1: York for you? Because like this, I know, Ireland's home,
[17:34] Speaker 1: but like this is home too, right.
[17:36] Speaker 2: Yeah, this is definitely home. You know. It feels good
[17:39] Speaker 2: and familiar. It also feels very loud. I feel a
[17:43] Speaker 2: little bit more anxiety, just you know, in New York.
[17:46] Speaker 2: Sometimes the day's New York wins. You know. New York
[17:50] Speaker 2: is is a beast, right And that's where I'm staying
[17:53] Speaker 2: and where I'm doing the show, And you know, I'm
[17:57] Speaker 2: I'm home. I sold everything before I left, and so
[18:00] Speaker 2: I'm hoping to get like a place in New Jersey
[18:03] Speaker 2: near my kids so that I could when i'm home,
[18:06] Speaker 2: we can have a home base here as well. You know.
[18:09] Speaker 2: So I'm planning on doing that, and you know, I
[18:12] Speaker 2: don't know how long we'll stay there. I think it
[18:15] Speaker 2: really does depend on what happens politically in the country
[18:19] Speaker 2: and if I feel mentally healthy enough to you know,
[18:25] Speaker 2: battle those those demons. And some days I do. Some
[18:30] Speaker 2: days I feel very strong, and other days I feel like,
[18:33] Speaker 2: oh boy, this is a lot. You know. Yeah, he's
[18:36] Speaker 2: like bombards you. It's always he's doing something. You can't
[18:40] Speaker 2: even watch the soccer game or you know, he ruins everything.
[18:44] Speaker 1: In Really like dealing with him is like a very
[18:49] Speaker 1: horrible version of the Tomato festival that happens in Italy
[18:53] Speaker 1: every summer. Well, just getting compelted in the face all
[18:57] Speaker 1: the time.
[18:58] Speaker 2: It's like stop, you know.
[19:00] Speaker 1: And I know that's their whole thing. Like him and Bannon,
[19:03] Speaker 1: they're like flood the zone wich shit and they won't
[19:05] Speaker 1: know what to But it's like nobody wants to be
[19:07] Speaker 1: on the receiving end of a fire hose of shit,
[19:11] Speaker 1: and that that's your goal, just like says so much
[19:15] Speaker 1: about you, So I get it. There are days like
[19:17] Speaker 1: I got asked this morning if I'd seen something horrible,
[19:21] Speaker 1: and I was like no, I just like sometimes I
[19:23] Speaker 1: need a day where I don't look at the news.
[19:26] Speaker 1: But then because I'm such a communicator of the news
[19:28] Speaker 1: to people, I get yelled at if I haven't communicated
[19:31] Speaker 1: about the most recent and I'm like, I don't know
[19:33] Speaker 1: what to tell you, guys. I'm just one person, and
[19:35] Speaker 1: sometimes I got to turn off.
[19:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I gotta tell you, I took all of
[19:39] Speaker 2: the American news channels off of my TV and I
[19:43] Speaker 2: only watch Irish and English Now and sometimes wash Al
[19:48] Speaker 2: Jazeera just to see what's happening over there. And I
[19:52] Speaker 2: have so much commer for it. I can't tell you
[19:56] Speaker 2: the difference that it makes in my mental health and
[19:58] Speaker 2: my happines this level, you know, to experience joy still,
[20:03] Speaker 2: and because it's very, very hard to experience joy when
[20:09] Speaker 2: you're in the thick of the Epstein Library, Yes, when
[20:16] Speaker 2: you're in the thick of that young boy that was
[20:19] Speaker 2: left on the island.
[20:21] Speaker 1: My friends, it's so awful.
[20:24] Speaker 2: That you can't believe what the Supreme Court is doing,
[20:28] Speaker 2: and doing boldly in front of everyone. And is he
[20:34] Speaker 2: going to let us have elections? That's my big question.
[20:36] Speaker 2: Is he going to let us or is he going to,
[20:38] Speaker 2: you know, make some sort of tragic event occur and
[20:41] Speaker 2: then declare that it's too dangerous and this is a
[20:44] Speaker 2: time of war and we can't all vote, right, so
[20:48] Speaker 2: you know, I think it's scary.
[20:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. Part of
[21:04] Speaker 1: the practice for me, because I can really get sucked
[21:06] Speaker 1: under with it all, you know. And then I'm not
[21:09] Speaker 1: sleeping and then it's like two o'clock and I haven't
[21:11] Speaker 1: eaten anything, and I'm just like, oh, this is not
[21:13] Speaker 1: a good I'm not treating my body kindly like I
[21:15] Speaker 1: would never treat my kid this way? What am I doing?
[21:18] Speaker 1: And I think about it and I come back a lot.
[21:24] Speaker 1: There's a poem I love by a poet, Jack Gilbert,
[21:29] Speaker 1: and he it's called a Brief for the Defense. After
[21:33] Speaker 1: our show, I'm going to send it to you, but
[21:37] Speaker 1: the sort of thesis of it, and he talks about how,
[21:40] Speaker 1: no matter what, you could essentially be having the most
[21:44] Speaker 1: glorious day, and then you look over there and somebody's
[21:46] Speaker 1: suffering in the most hideous way. And the thesis of
[21:50] Speaker 1: the point when of the poem, when he really drills
[21:52] Speaker 1: it down, is there's all sorts of things we can't
[21:54] Speaker 1: live without, even hope sometimes, but we cannot survive without delight,
[22:01] Speaker 1: Like the human spirit has to have delight, and so
[22:06] Speaker 1: when you when you claim it, you keep it alive
[22:09] Speaker 1: for everyone else who can't touch it in the moment.
[22:13] Speaker 1: And it's kind of my reminder, you know, if I've
[22:15] Speaker 1: spent all day calling representatives or on forty six zooms
[22:20] Speaker 1: and then raging about a thing, and I'm writing an
[22:22] Speaker 1: op ed, I go, I gotta like get outside and
[22:24] Speaker 1: listen to the kid's laugh exactly because I have to
[22:27] Speaker 1: remember what I'm fighting for, Like I have to have
[22:31] Speaker 1: that exactly.
[22:32] Speaker 2: You have to do it, and you know, and that's
[22:35] Speaker 2: what I'm you know, I'm fighting for peace of mind
[22:41] Speaker 2: and my own mental health, and I know enough to
[22:45] Speaker 2: take it seriously. Some people don't survive, people I know
[22:50] Speaker 2: in love, you know, ye I lost family members and
[22:55] Speaker 2: loved ones, and you know, nobody gets out of this unscathed, right.
[23:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, but I hear delight even when you talk
[23:05] Speaker 1: about the show, when you talk about going to host
[23:07] Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel, like.
[23:10] Speaker 2: Fine, grand baby, I have pure delight being here on
[23:14] Speaker 2: the Jersey Shore. Even though there was a horrible storm
[23:17] Speaker 2: last night and the lightning hit so close to the
[23:21] Speaker 2: house that the fire alarm went off and kept saying
[23:23] Speaker 2: fire fire. Every time strike the alarm went off and
[23:28] Speaker 2: screamed fire fire, which was not good for anyone. I
[23:32] Speaker 2: don't think, wow, but there was no fire.
[23:35] Speaker 1: Knock woodna, I'll knock on my wood too, thank god.
[23:40] Speaker 1: You know, it's my favorite question to ask everybody, But
[23:44] Speaker 1: I'm really curious for you because you everyone's holding their world,
[23:51] Speaker 1: but you're a person who holds really like you hold
[23:54] Speaker 1: your arms outstretched wide for a lot of people and
[23:57] Speaker 1: a lot of experience. Is you know you're in this season,
[24:04] Speaker 1: that this refamous, as your kids say, like a reinvention,
[24:09] Speaker 1: a moving, a reclamation, all these things. For you, what
[24:14] Speaker 1: feels like you're work in progress right now?
[24:17] Speaker 2: You know, my work in progress is to maintain my equilibrium.
[24:22] Speaker 2: I don't think I'm at my best when I am raging.
[24:26] Speaker 2: And that's why, you know, the view for me was
[24:29] Speaker 2: very difficult because there were things that were enraging by
[24:34] Speaker 2: the way the show was run and the subjects that
[24:37] Speaker 2: we were often asked to talk about. That I thought,
[24:40] Speaker 2: you know, this is the meaning to women or you know,
[24:43] Speaker 2: whatever the issues were, that is not the best use
[24:47] Speaker 2: of my time or talent. You know, when I know that,
[24:51] Speaker 2: and I took a while to learn that, And so
[24:54] Speaker 2: you know, my philanthropy can't interrupt my ability to find
[25:01] Speaker 2: the delight in life. And that means you have to participate.
[25:07] Speaker 2: You have to participate. You know. I used to smoke
[25:10] Speaker 2: pot before I went to Ireland because it's illegal there.
[25:14] Speaker 2: So in a year and a half, I haven't smoked
[25:16] Speaker 2: any pot, right, And I feel a little bit clearer,
[25:21] Speaker 2: to tell you the tea. I feel more present, obviously
[25:25] Speaker 2: in my life, and less forgetful, less taken out of something,
[25:32] Speaker 2: you know. And if you would have told me a
[25:35] Speaker 2: year and a half or two years ago, oh, you're
[25:37] Speaker 2: gonna go there and you're gonna quit pot and you're
[25:39] Speaker 2: gonna feel better, I would have said, no freaking way,
[25:42] Speaker 2: you know, no way. And I'm not advocating it for
[25:45] Speaker 2: anyone besides someone who thinks they'd like to participate more
[25:49] Speaker 2: in their own life and spend less time trying to
[25:54] Speaker 2: quell the twelve monkeys in your brain.
[25:57] Speaker 1: Right, But I think what I'm here hearing you say
[26:00] Speaker 1: is you're really open to possibilities you didn't see coming totally,
[26:06] Speaker 1: and that feels like a really cool place to be.
[26:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like what you're supposed to, what's
[26:13] Speaker 2: supposed to happen, will happen. And I'm at peace with that,
[26:16] Speaker 2: you know. I'm like, they're like, what what do you
[26:18] Speaker 2: want to do after Jimmy Kimmel. I just want to
[26:21] Speaker 2: do my best. I just want to, you know, be
[26:24] Speaker 2: as good as I can be and be joyful and
[26:27] Speaker 2: be uh, be happy, and and know that some of
[26:32] Speaker 2: those people who believed in him are good people and
[26:36] Speaker 2: they were led astray and and we have to lay
[26:39] Speaker 2: our arms open for them too. We all have been there,
[26:43] Speaker 2: and this is liberty and justice for all. Still.
[26:51] Speaker 1: I also think when you've got when you've gone full
[26:55] Speaker 1: circle through the emotions of it, I understand the anger
[27:01] Speaker 1: is righteous. I'm angry all the time. I think when
[27:04] Speaker 1: you're frustrated people haven't been listening, great, but you can't
[27:08] Speaker 1: stay in the frustration or the anger. The whole point
[27:10] Speaker 1: of knowing better is also doing better. And so if
[27:14] Speaker 1: we can do better, if we've known better, we have
[27:18] Speaker 1: to be willing to say, oh, you're ready to do better,
[27:21] Speaker 1: then come do it with us, because the the other
[27:25] Speaker 1: part of it is like, well, we're going to cut
[27:26] Speaker 1: off our nose despite our face, like, no, we're not.
[27:30] Speaker 2: We're not freeing the insurrectionists. No we're not. We're not saying,
[27:34] Speaker 2: you know, every crime that you've ever committed is forgiven
[27:40] Speaker 2: over your new found understanding of who this man is.
[27:44] Speaker 2: But I do think there has to be you know,
[27:49] Speaker 2: that roomy quote right in the field next to right
[27:53] Speaker 2: and wrong, there's the people. I'll go.
[27:55] Speaker 1: I'll meet you there, ya Right.
[27:57] Speaker 2: So that's what I'm what I'm hoping for, that's what
[28:01] Speaker 2: I'm trying to manifest. That's what I'm meaning and knowing. Like, listen,
[28:06] Speaker 2: Jimmy asked me to do. This is quite an honor.
[28:09] Speaker 2: I'm going to do it, you know. I love that
[28:11] Speaker 2: for you, and I'm going to try my best, you know,
[28:15] Speaker 2: and have fun and enjoy it, you know, enjoy it.
[28:22] Speaker 1: Yeah,

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