# Dr. Jill Biden - part 1

An episode of [Drama Queens](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1571792783), 22 Jun 2026, 26 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/e53aefd3-699f-4685-9a84-aed700f383fa/42134f20-eae5-4f0c-b376-b46f014f89a6/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=cf2e6477-1a1d-4442-8b33-ae320005bb63

What was it really like to live, teach, love, grieve, and lead through one of the most consequential periods in modern American history? In part one of this in-depth conversation, live from The Boch Center Shubert Theatre in Boston, Dr. Jill Biden shares the personal stories, hard-earned lessons, and unexpected moments behind "View from the East Wing." Find out what her non-negotiables were while being First Lady and hear her gut-wrenching reaction to the demolition of the building she once called home. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. At
[0:11] Speaker 1: a time when Americans are grappling with urgent questions about democracy, leadership,
[0:18] Speaker 1: and the future of the nation, perspective matters because history
[0:22] Speaker 1: is not just shaped by elections or policies or headlines,
[0:25] Speaker 1: but by people, by their character, their convictions, and the
[0:30] Speaker 1: choices they make when the stakes are the highest. Very
[0:34] Speaker 1: few people have witnessed those choices more closely than doctor
[0:38] Speaker 1: Jill Biden. As an educator, advocate, first lady, and one
[0:42] Speaker 1: of the country's most respected public servants, Doctor b has
[0:47] Speaker 1: spent decades championing the values of service, empathy, and civic
[0:52] Speaker 1: engagement while helping us navigate some of the most defining
[0:56] Speaker 1: chapters of modern American life. In her new book, Biden
[1:00] Speaker 1: takes readers beyond the public record and into the human
[1:03] Speaker 1: stories behind history. View from the East Wing is a
[1:07] Speaker 1: deeply personal look at the relationships, challenges, and moments that
[1:11] Speaker 1: shaped her years in the White House, and a chance
[1:15] Speaker 1: to reflect on leadership, resilience, and hope at a time
[1:19] Speaker 1: when all three feel more essential than ever. I am
[1:23] Speaker 1: so honored to say I am here in Boston tonight.
[1:27] Speaker 1: Doctor Joel Biden come join.
[1:29] Speaker 2: Us as I bring out Sophia, Who's gonna join me
[1:35] Speaker 2: in this conversation.
[1:47] Speaker 1: Come on, guys, doctor B, Doctor B in Boston. I
[1:53] Speaker 1: love this.
[1:55] Speaker 2: Ah, Hi, hey, buddy, we can They're the only ones
[1:58] Speaker 2: who probably can understand my Philly accent because.
[2:01] Speaker 3: They have love have their own.
[2:05] Speaker 1: I I'm so thrilled to be here with all of
[2:08] Speaker 1: you tonight. I'm still just so tickled that you asked
[2:11] Speaker 1: me to come. And also during Pride, Happy Pride, everyone.
[2:14] Speaker 4: We're so happy.
[2:18] Speaker 1: You're I have to say, and I'll tell you why
[2:23] Speaker 1: we're here. I've been lucky enough to know the bidens
[2:26] Speaker 1: for quite some time. I signed on. I think it
[2:29] Speaker 1: was the end of seven for the first election with
[2:34] Speaker 1: you all and President Obama. It was a night a
[2:37] Speaker 1: bunch of US healthcare advocates had been asked to come
[2:40] Speaker 1: to something at the White House, and everybody was like,
[2:42] Speaker 1: oh my god, we can't believe we're here. And Joe
[2:47] Speaker 1: was talking to all of us really just like what
[2:49] Speaker 1: are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? And
[2:52] Speaker 1: brocc Lean's in and goes.
[2:54] Speaker 5: Yo, we gotta go, and he just like you know,
[2:57] Speaker 5: we were all in our twenties and he he was
[3:00] Speaker 5: just giving us all his time and attention, and there
[3:03] Speaker 5: were no cameras in that room.
[3:04] Speaker 1: And every time I've been around him, around you, you're
[3:09] Speaker 1: both just so genuinely.
[3:11] Speaker 3: Caring about somethings. So thank you.
[3:13] Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be with you to.
[3:16] Speaker 3: Now.
[3:18] Speaker 1: I got questions. I did homework. Nobody's surprised. I'm curious
[3:23] Speaker 1: about something because obviously part of writing a memoirs looking back,
[3:28] Speaker 1: and you have such an incredible life to look back at,
[3:33] Speaker 1: all of your service, all of your teaching, but before that,
[3:37] Speaker 1: before you were doctor Biden or missus Biden in class
[3:41] Speaker 1: to someone, I'm curious about you when you were somebody's student.
[3:46] Speaker 1: When you think about your life, if you could walk
[3:51] Speaker 1: out in front of this building and run into yourself at.
[3:54] Speaker 2: Ten years old, do you think do you think that
[3:58] Speaker 2: little girl would see herself?
[4:00] Speaker 1: You would you see yourself in her? Well?
[4:03] Speaker 2: I never would have predicted how fun my life took.
[4:08] Speaker 2: I mean, quite honestly, you know, I grew up really
[4:12] Speaker 2: in an idyllic I mean idyllic childhood I just had.
[4:18] Speaker 3: My parents were really young. There were lots of fun.
[4:21] Speaker 2: I mean, we would have tomato fights during the summer
[4:24] Speaker 2: out on the lawn. You know, having five four sisters
[4:29] Speaker 2: was just so great.
[4:31] Speaker 3: And I loved school, as you know, when I was
[4:34] Speaker 3: in those early years.
[4:35] Speaker 2: By high school, I was cutting class like the rest
[4:38] Speaker 2: of everybody else.
[4:39] Speaker 1: She's a good time you guys.
[4:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, so sneaking out, you know, to go eat a
[4:44] Speaker 2: HOGI anyway, So, but my ten year old self, I
[4:50] Speaker 2: don't think I've changed all that much.
[4:54] Speaker 3: I mean, I still.
[4:56] Speaker 2: I still loved to read and I loved to write,
[5:00] Speaker 2: and so I don't think I changed that much.
[5:04] Speaker 1: No, that's pretty cool, especially given the life. Yeah, I'm
[5:10] Speaker 1: curious why this felt like the time, because view from
[5:14] Speaker 1: the East wing is it's personal, it's historic. Did you
[5:20] Speaker 1: just kind of feel ready to put it all out
[5:22] Speaker 1: there given the state of the world in twenty twenty.
[5:25] Speaker 2: Six, You know, I was definitely ready to put it
[5:27] Speaker 2: out And when Joe got out of office, I just
[5:31] Speaker 2: felt that so many people went out and wrote books
[5:35] Speaker 2: and I and I, you know, I read parts of
[5:38] Speaker 2: many of them, and I thought, and I saw things
[5:41] Speaker 2: that weren't true or had been you know, misconstrued, and
[5:45] Speaker 2: I thought, I want to write my own reflections of
[5:48] Speaker 2: how I saw things it and that encompassed, like the
[5:54] Speaker 2: whole four years. It encompassed travel, state, dinners, camp, David teaching,
[6:01] Speaker 2: all the things I did, and then I included the
[6:04] Speaker 2: chapters that were the really, you know, hard ones to
[6:07] Speaker 2: write about Joe getting out. But I want you to know,
[6:11] Speaker 2: because many of you have not read the book, it's
[6:14] Speaker 2: not a political book. It's a book about, like you're saying,
[6:20] Speaker 2: an ordinary woman who was given the opportunity to live
[6:25] Speaker 2: an extraordinary life.
[6:27] Speaker 3: And it's my reflections on that.
[6:34] Speaker 1: I will say as a reader. What was so touching
[6:38] Speaker 1: to me about it is you. You didn't have to say, hey,
[6:43] Speaker 1: I'm reminding you all that there's people in here in
[6:46] Speaker 1: this political world, but you offered us such a personal
[6:51] Speaker 1: view into a space that I think a lot of
[6:55] Speaker 1: us on the outside forget. Most days there's people trying
[7:00] Speaker 1: to do the best they can and sometimes the only
[7:03] Speaker 1: decisions you're given are a bad one and a worse one,
[7:06] Speaker 1: and you still have to nurture the country through it.
[7:09] Speaker 1: And I think we all need to remember that we're
[7:15] Speaker 1: all just people trying to figure out how to do
[7:17] Speaker 1: this and it, I don't know, you did something really
[7:21] Speaker 1: really beautiful in it, and not everything you're reflecting on
[7:27] Speaker 1: is beautiful. I mean the first Lady's office in the
[7:30] Speaker 1: East Wing is.
[7:31] Speaker 2: I remember that, the East Wing, and that that was horrifying.
[7:37] Speaker 1: And as a person who's has the ultimate privilege of
[7:41] Speaker 1: having been invited to the house on more than one occasion,
[7:45] Speaker 1: like you guys still to walk up and you go
[7:48] Speaker 1: through security and you give them all your stuff, and
[7:50] Speaker 1: then you go through the next one and you give
[7:51] Speaker 1: them all your stuff, and you're kind of like, am
[7:52] Speaker 1: I gonna get Is this where I get in trouble?
[7:54] Speaker 1: Is this where you're gonna.
[7:54] Speaker 2: Tell me to go?
[7:55] Speaker 1: Can I still not?
[7:56] Speaker 3: I still have a gun? Right?
[7:58] Speaker 6: Well, I would never, But like you get up there
[8:02] Speaker 6: and then you walk this path and there's these gates
[8:04] Speaker 6: and little steps, and you walk up to the East
[8:06] Speaker 6: Wing and it's like, I can't.
[8:08] Speaker 1: Believe I'm here. And to think it's gone, and to
[8:11] Speaker 1: think about the work you and so many other first
[8:13] Speaker 1: ladies did in that office, it's crushing. And you reflected
[8:18] Speaker 1: on it in a way that hit me. You said,
[8:20] Speaker 1: to see it, the innards of the East Wing were
[8:23] Speaker 1: spread for everyone to see, like a rare and precious
[8:27] Speaker 1: animal that had been hunted and killed. You make it
[8:32] Speaker 1: make sense for all of us who'd never had an
[8:34] Speaker 1: office there. How do you think about it now as
[8:39] Speaker 1: we're a year into the Mayhem.
[8:41] Speaker 3: Well.
[8:44] Speaker 2: Half you're and a half.
[8:47] Speaker 3: Yeah, not that anyone's scouting.
[8:50] Speaker 2: You know, I love the East wing. And like you're saying, Sophia,
[8:54] Speaker 2: I mean you.
[8:54] Speaker 3: Would families would come in or you.
[8:58] Speaker 2: Know, to the east, to the east that.
[9:00] Speaker 3: Was the entrance to the White House.
[9:02] Speaker 2: And I would hear families or people come in and
[9:05] Speaker 2: they'd be so excited and just to be there and
[9:10] Speaker 2: take pictures with their family.
[9:12] Speaker 3: And because it does have this mystique to it.
[9:16] Speaker 2: And then as you walk down the hallway, one of
[9:18] Speaker 2: the things that I did was put artwork of military
[9:23] Speaker 2: children so that people would know when they came to
[9:26] Speaker 2: the White House how much we honored military families.
[9:31] Speaker 3: Thank you and thank you military families.
[9:35] Speaker 2: And then as you continued down, they used to have
[9:40] Speaker 2: well when we came in, they had these pictures, and
[9:44] Speaker 2: you know, they would just kids would just sort of
[9:46] Speaker 2: walk past the pictures.
[9:47] Speaker 3: And I thought, you know, as a teacher, we learned
[9:50] Speaker 3: with all of our senses, and.
[9:53] Speaker 2: So I changed it so that the pictures would revolve
[9:57] Speaker 2: and you'd see like several things that happened, or like
[10:00] Speaker 2: the Carter administration or the you know, Barack Obama's administration,
[10:04] Speaker 2: all the way down the line, and then you'd walk
[10:07] Speaker 2: a little bit further on and there would be the
[10:11] Speaker 2: older presidents and the kids would start to look at
[10:14] Speaker 2: their phones like, you know, like so disinterested.
[10:17] Speaker 3: Like what's this.
[10:18] Speaker 2: So I changed it to have all the first ladies pictures,
[10:23] Speaker 2: the ones that you would.
[10:24] Speaker 3: Know, like Lara Bush and Barbara Bush and Hillary Clinton.
[10:29] Speaker 2: So so then it meant something to kids. And then
[10:32] Speaker 2: they went on the tour, and I made it interactive.
[10:35] Speaker 3: I worked with the History Channel, and.
[10:39] Speaker 2: I made it so that you could go further into
[10:41] Speaker 2: the rooms, you could hear FDR on the radio, you
[10:45] Speaker 2: could feel the marble that was made up the marble fireplace.
[10:50] Speaker 2: So that kids became really involved with the tour and.
[10:55] Speaker 3: That they had a really good White House.
[10:58] Speaker 2: Experience rather than sort of walk by and look at
[11:01] Speaker 2: all these paintings where they didn't know what they were
[11:04] Speaker 2: looking at. I had to make it meaningful for them.
[11:07] Speaker 3: So when I.
[11:08] Speaker 2: Saw it come down and someone you know who will
[11:11] Speaker 2: remain nameless at the White House was sending me pictures
[11:15] Speaker 2: like Jill, look what he's going on. And that wrecking ball,
[11:19] Speaker 2: you know, that kept hitting the concrete.
[11:21] Speaker 3: And the and the building, and.
[11:25] Speaker 2: You know it just honest to god, it reminded me
[11:28] Speaker 2: of like those elite hunters, you know that go out
[11:32] Speaker 2: and shoot these rare and precious animals and then gut them,
[11:35] Speaker 2: and or like if you've been like I know you're
[11:39] Speaker 2: not from Philly like I am, but you know the
[11:42] Speaker 2: butcher shops that hang those animals in the windows with
[11:46] Speaker 2: their you know, just hanging everything. It was just so
[11:49] Speaker 2: raw and cruel. And you think of all the historical
[11:55] Speaker 2: memory of the of the East Wing and all the
[11:58] Speaker 2: first ladies who had their office is there not even
[12:02] Speaker 2: to mention the gardens and the flowers and the trees
[12:06] Speaker 2: and all the beauty that was there for years and
[12:11] Speaker 2: years and years gone, yeah gone.
[12:18] Speaker 1: When you when I read that, I thought about he
[12:22] Speaker 1: who shan't be named and his sons who shan't be named.
[12:27] Speaker 1: Who are those kinds of trophy hunters? Yeah, who love
[12:31] Speaker 1: to put an awful photo like that on Instagram? What
[12:37] Speaker 1: an insane thing?
[12:38] Speaker 3: Where do we We're in the upside down?
[12:40] Speaker 1: But it really it made me think about that vision
[12:46] Speaker 1: where take more, no matter what, for your gain, versus
[12:53] Speaker 1: honoring history saying the White House is actually enough and incredible. Yeah,
[13:01] Speaker 1: you know, it seems like we're having a conversation about
[13:03] Speaker 1: what kind of a future we want to pursue. Do
[13:08] Speaker 1: we want to ground ourselves in philosophy and reverence and
[13:12] Speaker 1: morality and respect or is everything for sale?
[13:16] Speaker 3: And I think particularly apparently.
[13:20] Speaker 1: Well unfortunately hopefully not forever, we have work to do
[13:24] Speaker 1: for November. You you have always been someone who acts
[13:33] Speaker 1: out of such a place of realness. I was telling
[13:37] Speaker 1: her aback sat I was like, my grandpa would would
[13:39] Speaker 1: die tonight and be like, she's abroad. I like her,
[13:43] Speaker 1: you know, like, you're a real person and a dedicated
[13:48] Speaker 1: public servant, and you demand respect, you expect respect. As
[13:53] Speaker 1: a teacher, you've taught respect. I'm curious how you think
[13:58] Speaker 1: we get back to a nation that is respectful of
[14:04] Speaker 1: each other.
[14:05] Speaker 2: I was in the airport, you know, just minding my
[14:08] Speaker 2: own business, just walking down the hall, and one woman,
[14:11] Speaker 2: I mean in the middle of everything.
[14:13] Speaker 3: I mean, she.
[14:16] Speaker 2: Turned and whipped around and she get yells make America
[14:21] Speaker 2: great again, Go Trump.
[14:23] Speaker 4: And I was like, and I was just walking through
[14:25] Speaker 4: the airport, and I thought, what's wrong with her? Yeah, okay,
[14:36] Speaker 4: I can't imagine in my wildest dreams like saying that
[14:41] Speaker 4: to somebody on the other side, like yelling some random,
[14:45] Speaker 4: like mean comment. We have to get back to kindness
[14:49] Speaker 4: and to listening to one another.
[14:51] Speaker 3: And it may not be easy, but we have to
[14:54] Speaker 3: do it.
[14:54] Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it starts with us.
[14:59] Speaker 3: I mean, it's starts with us. And I think if
[15:02] Speaker 3: we just keep we don't give up, we don't give
[15:05] Speaker 3: into it.
[15:06] Speaker 2: If we just keep pushing forward and just saying listen
[15:11] Speaker 2: to us.
[15:12] Speaker 3: Hear us, we'll hear you too.
[15:15] Speaker 2: I mean, that's the way it used to be when
[15:17] Speaker 2: Joe got into the Senate in nineteen seventy two, that
[15:23] Speaker 2: you know, people from both sides of the aisle. And
[15:27] Speaker 2: I'm old enough that I remember that, like the Republicans
[15:31] Speaker 2: and the Democrats, they would disagree all the time on
[15:35] Speaker 2: the floor of the Senate, but then we'd go out
[15:38] Speaker 2: to dinner together and we'd go you know, we'd travel
[15:41] Speaker 2: together or whatever. But we respected one another's opinions. And
[15:48] Speaker 2: so we've got to get back to it.
[15:52] Speaker 3: What do you think is the pathway?
[15:55] Speaker 1: I agree, you know, I I think there's We've lost
[16:00] Speaker 1: something that I think is really essential, which is the
[16:03] Speaker 1: willingness to learn in public. You know, everyone's so scared
[16:07] Speaker 1: to get canceled or to say the wrong thing, or
[16:10] Speaker 1: to be cringe. I'm like, don't kill what makes you cringe?
[16:15] Speaker 1: Kill the cringe. Like, be emotional, be sweet, say something cheesy,
[16:20] Speaker 1: tell people you love them.
[16:21] Speaker 3: You know.
[16:22] Speaker 1: I think that's part of it, and something that I
[16:25] Speaker 1: have learned actually from your husband, that I have learned
[16:30] Speaker 1: from watching President Obama and Michelle, even from President Clinton.
[16:37] Speaker 1: You know, they served through periods where not all the
[16:42] Speaker 1: decisions were great, Like you're doing the best you can
[16:47] Speaker 1: with the information you have. The fact that President Biden,
[16:51] Speaker 1: the fact that President Clinton were like, oh yeah, we
[16:53] Speaker 1: were absolutely wrong on the crime bill, so we got
[16:55] Speaker 1: to do something better. Like that's exactly what I want
[16:59] Speaker 1: my president to say.
[17:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, I look at the.
[17:01] Speaker 1: Data, I got pitched a solution. It was the wrong one.
[17:06] Speaker 1: We're gonna fix it. Like this idea that if you
[17:09] Speaker 1: make a mistake and you admit it, you're a loser,
[17:13] Speaker 1: so you're gonna double down on hurting people.
[17:15] Speaker 3: I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah?
[17:16] Speaker 1: So I think that's part of it too, Like we
[17:19] Speaker 1: give our kids, whether they're our children or kids we teach,
[17:23] Speaker 1: We give them space to learn and rip and repair,
[17:29] Speaker 1: and we seem to have lost that in the public discourse,
[17:31] Speaker 1: and I think we need it back.
[17:33] Speaker 3: We definitely need it back. We definitely need it back.
[17:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, maybe not for the lady who yelled
[17:37] Speaker 1: at you in the airport. I'm glad you were nice
[17:40] Speaker 1: to her.
[17:40] Speaker 2: If I had been with you, I want to, But
[17:43] Speaker 2: I thought it was.
[17:44] Speaker 1: So out of I mean, it's out of reason.
[17:46] Speaker 3: Like why would like who gives you permission?
[17:50] Speaker 2: Like we've somehow had feel this permission to yell at
[17:53] Speaker 2: people or scream at people or say nasty comments.
[17:57] Speaker 1: I mean, I mean the Internet.
[17:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, And so maybe that was the beginning of it,
[18:03] Speaker 2: or maybe it started more recently.
[18:06] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[18:08] Speaker 1: I don't know either. You know, it's interesting, though, because
[18:11] Speaker 1: that experience you had in the airport is the byproduct
[18:16] Speaker 1: of being a person whose life becomes a fishbowl. And
[18:20] Speaker 1: you and many people who've lived in the White House
[18:22] Speaker 1: talk about how the White House is kind of a
[18:25] Speaker 1: fish bowl. How do you maintain a sense of a
[18:31] Speaker 1: private life or normalcy when you live in that house?
[18:36] Speaker 1: I mean, you can't open a window, you can't go
[18:38] Speaker 1: for a walk, like, what's your life? What's your life
[18:41] Speaker 1: in there?
[18:41] Speaker 3: You can go for a walk and you are in
[18:44] Speaker 3: a fish bowl in that you know. Uh, well, our
[18:49] Speaker 3: my code name is Capri and.
[18:52] Speaker 2: Because I'm Italian, I'm a good Italian girl. And then
[18:55] Speaker 2: and then Joe's was Celtic, you know, Irish. So anyway,
[19:01] Speaker 2: we got the letter c every presidential uh, every president
[19:05] Speaker 2: gets a letter from the alphabet and they have to
[19:08] Speaker 2: choose their own names. And like our kids were Coaster
[19:11] Speaker 2: and Cookie and you know, so they had that.
[19:14] Speaker 3: They chose themselves. Oh what would you have chosen with
[19:17] Speaker 3: a sea?
[19:17] Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know. I have to think about it.
[19:22] Speaker 5: All right, I'll give you some so probably canol Canoli,
[19:26] Speaker 5: you know I I will good Italian.
[19:27] Speaker 1: Girl too, I come on, that's cute Carpaccio.
[19:30] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[19:32] Speaker 2: So so anyway, anywhere you go, I mean your movements
[19:38] Speaker 2: are like you feel like you're chipped, you know how
[19:40] Speaker 2: we do with our animals. It was like Capri moving
[19:44] Speaker 2: to elevator, Capri going down elevator, Capri walking to the hall.
[19:49] Speaker 2: Everywhere you went, you know, you were I mean, they
[19:53] Speaker 2: knew every single movement. So I, I don't know, it
[19:59] Speaker 2: was such a fish bowl.
[20:00] Speaker 3: But I felt like because I taught school that two
[20:05] Speaker 3: days a week, I would go.
[20:06] Speaker 2: To Northern Virginia Community College at seven twenty in the
[20:09] Speaker 2: morning and I would be, you know, Capri.
[20:13] Speaker 3: Going down to the cars and Willow. It was so funny.
[20:18] Speaker 3: You know, we have a cat, Willow, and so Willow.
[20:20] Speaker 2: I'd open the door and Willow would go up the
[20:23] Speaker 2: stairs and she'd go up to housekeeping and they would
[20:27] Speaker 2: they called her Wilita, and so it was so cute.
[20:30] Speaker 2: They loved her, and so they would be waiting opening
[20:33] Speaker 2: the door for her to come upstairs.
[20:36] Speaker 3: But teaching.
[20:38] Speaker 2: Really grounded me because I walked into that classroom and
[20:42] Speaker 2: I felt that, I don't know, I felt I could breathe.
[20:46] Speaker 2: And you know, the first day of school, well, I
[20:49] Speaker 2: was never on the roster because they don't put.
[20:51] Speaker 3: Your name on for security reasons.
[20:54] Speaker 2: So the first day of classes, the students were always like,
[20:58] Speaker 2: what's going on? Why do we have to put book
[21:00] Speaker 2: bags through this mag thing? And I said to them,
[21:04] Speaker 2: they're not looking for your drugs.
[21:06] Speaker 1: You know.
[21:08] Speaker 2: And then the care and so the first day they
[21:14] Speaker 2: were like, oh my god, look who my teacher is.
[21:17] Speaker 2: By the second day, they were saying the F word,
[21:20] Speaker 2: so like they totally accepted.
[21:23] Speaker 3: Me as their English teacher. And I loved that. It
[21:26] Speaker 3: was it was just very cool for you.
[21:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, I get what you mean, though, it's a it's
[21:33] Speaker 1: a tether to your real life, not that not the
[21:38] Speaker 1: projection of what anyone thinks of the White House. I
[21:42] Speaker 1: also humble brag for her. You made history doing that.
[21:46] Speaker 1: You were the first first lady who held a teaching position. Yes, like,
[21:52] Speaker 1: but so cool. Thank you. Why did keeping the job
[21:58] Speaker 1: feel like a non for you? Did you know it
[22:01] Speaker 1: would be a tether or was it just something that
[22:05] Speaker 1: you said, like I'm not putting this on pause.
[22:08] Speaker 3: No, I felt really strongly about it.
[22:11] Speaker 2: And you know, I supported Joe in his career and
[22:14] Speaker 2: I and he always supported me in my career. Although
[22:18] Speaker 2: there were doubts like Jill, really do you you know
[22:21] Speaker 2: his staff would say, do you really think you can
[22:23] Speaker 2: teach a second lady and I mean his first lady,
[22:27] Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'm.
[22:28] Speaker 3: Going to do it, so you better figure it out.
[22:32] Speaker 3: And so but I had worked too hard.
[22:36] Speaker 2: I loved teaching, I loved my career and I raised
[22:41] Speaker 2: three children. I went to graduate school like forever for
[22:46] Speaker 2: I got two masters and a doctorate from the University
[22:49] Speaker 2: of Delaware at the age of fifty five.
[22:53] Speaker 3: So I wasn't about to give it up. And I
[22:57] Speaker 3: want to say another thing.
[22:59] Speaker 2: At my age when we went into the White House,
[23:03] Speaker 2: you know, I was not about to say to Joe Biden, Hey,
[23:07] Speaker 2: would you give me money so I can buy pantyhose?
[23:10] Speaker 3: I mean, no way. So I had to have my independence.
[23:15] Speaker 2: And I'll tell you one thing I've really like pounded
[23:18] Speaker 2: into my granddaughters and my own daughter is like, you
[23:23] Speaker 2: must be financially independent.
[23:26] Speaker 1: Yes, yes, because all this crowd wife marketing is a
[23:33] Speaker 1: ruse and we know it. I'm really curious about this
[23:38] Speaker 1: because you've spoken about your plans to teach ged classes
[23:44] Speaker 1: in women's prisons, which, again, when we talk about what
[23:48] Speaker 1: kind of future we want to build, I think like, oh, look,
[23:50] Speaker 1: you want to solve problems on Earth instead of moving
[23:52] Speaker 1: to Mars and building a fancy prison for yourself. Crazy
[23:57] Speaker 1: crazy that we should like make the only planet of
[23:59] Speaker 1: the trees better. But what does that calling feel like
[24:04] Speaker 1: for you? Was there something as your time as second
[24:06] Speaker 1: lady or your time as first lady that you saw
[24:09] Speaker 1: in the carceral system.
[24:10] Speaker 2: You know I did because my daughter has works with
[24:15] Speaker 2: women who have come out of prisons, and she started
[24:18] Speaker 2: a women's wellness center and she helps them get jobs
[24:21] Speaker 2: or education, mental health. And so she took me to
[24:25] Speaker 2: the women's prison, and.
[24:29] Speaker 3: You know, I spoke to them.
[24:30] Speaker 2: We had a great conversation, and then I got a
[24:33] Speaker 2: pen pal, and so we would write to each other
[24:37] Speaker 2: all the time. And I know, it was so funny,
[24:40] Speaker 2: like when Anthony, you know, my chief is daft, said
[24:43] Speaker 2: what you have a prison pen pal? I mean it's like, yes, Anthony,
[24:47] Speaker 2: I do so anyway, So I thought when I left Washington,
[24:55] Speaker 2: I you know, I still have it in my blood.
[24:57] Speaker 2: And if there are any teachers in this room, I'm
[25:00] Speaker 2: sure there are many.
[25:01] Speaker 3: You know what I mean. Right, It's the best job
[25:05] Speaker 3: in the world.
[25:07] Speaker 2: Every day is so interesting and you get so attached
[25:09] Speaker 2: to your students.
[25:10] Speaker 3: So when we left, I thought, what could I do?
[25:14] Speaker 2: I don't want to like have a full schedule at
[25:18] Speaker 2: a university. And I thought, how great would it be
[25:21] Speaker 2: to go into the women's prison and get women who
[25:25] Speaker 2: are just about to come out.
[25:27] Speaker 3: I think that they call it level four and.
[25:29] Speaker 2: I talked to my community college where I used to teach,
[25:32] Speaker 2: and I said, can we come up with this program
[25:36] Speaker 2: where I would go into the prisons and teach help
[25:39] Speaker 2: them with their ged skills or workforce development. And then
[25:43] Speaker 2: this is the good part. One day they would come
[25:47] Speaker 2: to the college and they would take they would sit
[25:50] Speaker 2: in a classroom so that they would build their self esteem,
[25:55] Speaker 2: you know, feel like the college students that they were
[25:59] Speaker 2: earn a degree, you go on to get a job.
[26:01] Speaker 2: I mean that would be like if we could raise
[26:04] Speaker 2: them up and give that to them, that that would
[26:07] Speaker 2: be like a dream come.
[26:08] Speaker 3: True, a dream come true.
[26:13] Speaker 1: Say it's more for part two of our conversation with
[26:16] Speaker 1: doctor Tobiden

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