# Work in Progress: Mika Brzezinski

An episode of [Drama Queens](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1571792783), 14 Jan 2026, 1 h 01 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/e53aefd3-699f-4685-9a84-aed700f383fa/3225402f-32a9-4d40-ad85-b3d200748431/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=cf2e6477-1a1d-4442-8b33-ae320005bb63

Mika Brzezinski has been at the center of America’s political conversation for nearly two decades. She’s covered history-defining moments and propelled women of all stripes to Know their Value in the workplace and beyond. Now, she opens up about navigating relationships with both the Trump administration and her "Morning Joe" co-host/husband Joe Scarborough. Join the Know Your Value movement here and find out how you can register for the 30/50 Summit here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
[0:15] Speaker 1: back to this week's work in progress. Friends. I know
[0:18] Speaker 1: twenty twenty six is off to a hell of a
[0:21] Speaker 1: start and a lot of us are wondering where to turn.
[0:25] Speaker 1: Today's guest is someone I often turn to to help
[0:28] Speaker 1: me make sense of what's going on in the world.
[0:31] Speaker 1: Her coverage is incredible. There's few journalists that have operated
[0:36] Speaker 1: at the crossroads of influenced scrutiny and national crisis quite
[0:40] Speaker 1: like Mika Brazenski, co host of Morning Joe, the long
[0:44] Speaker 1: running news program that is ripe with opinions about politics, policy,
[0:48] Speaker 1: and people in power. Mika has been at the heart
[0:51] Speaker 1: of the story for decades, from reporting at Ground zero
[0:55] Speaker 1: on September eleventh, to navigating a high profile professional personal
[1:00] Speaker 1: partnership to facing very intense scrutiny over engagement with certain
[1:05] Speaker 1: powerful political figures. But she consistently sticks to her principles.
[1:11] Speaker 1: She shows up and does the work to defend democracy
[1:15] Speaker 1: and to demonstrate her professional integrity while focusing on the
[1:19] Speaker 1: issues she is most passionate about. One of her most
[1:23] Speaker 1: impactful contributions, in my mind and many others, happens to
[1:28] Speaker 1: be that she's turned her own battle with self doubt
[1:31] Speaker 1: into a movement for women called Know Your Value. Know
[1:35] Speaker 1: Your Value helps women reclaim power, redefine career timelines, and
[1:40] Speaker 1: thrive on their own terms. And today I'm going to
[1:43] Speaker 1: ask Mika how she thinks we can do that as
[1:46] Speaker 1: we hunker down for twenty twenty six for the fight
[1:50] Speaker 1: ahead out in the world and the battles we might
[1:52] Speaker 1: be fighting at home. Let's dive in with Mika Brazenski.
[2:07] Speaker 2: Hi, how are you.
[2:10] Speaker 1: It's such a weird question these days, right.
[2:12] Speaker 2: I know, it really is. I guess my answer is
[2:16] Speaker 2: I feel blessed and I'm very concerned about everybody.
[2:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's a very interesting duality to live in.
[2:25] Speaker 2: It is, it is.
[2:28] Speaker 1: Well, let us dive in, Mika. It's so lovely to
[2:34] Speaker 1: see you. Thank you for taking the time to come
[2:35] Speaker 1: on the show today.
[2:37] Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
[2:39] Speaker 1: I'm thrilled. I always have the best time when I
[2:41] Speaker 1: get to come on your show, and it's.
[2:43] Speaker 2: Fun to have you in my space. Now, Yes, here
[2:45] Speaker 2: I am. I'm a little nervous, but well I'm ready.
[2:50] Speaker 1: We're easy peasy over here, obviously, there's a million wild
[2:55] Speaker 1: things to talk about that have happened over the last week.
[2:59] Speaker 1: But before we sort of dive into the present and
[3:03] Speaker 1: purpose and the good, the bad.
[3:06] Speaker 2: And the ugly.
[3:07] Speaker 1: I actually really like to go backwards with people, because
[3:11] Speaker 1: you know, millions of people sit and watch you every
[3:13] Speaker 1: day and have for years, and they know about your
[3:15] Speaker 1: life and your career. But I always really wonder when
[3:20] Speaker 1: I sit down with people, I admire if if you
[3:23] Speaker 1: got to go back in time and interact with your
[3:25] Speaker 1: younger self at eight or nine years old, would you
[3:30] Speaker 1: see aspects of Mica as a little girl that are
[3:36] Speaker 1: still present in you today.
[3:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, and I see some aspects that I
[3:49] Speaker 2: wish I could have changed in my younger self. Maybe
[3:53] Speaker 2: that was a little little girl. Absolutely. I was the
[3:59] Speaker 2: daughter of refugee, these two older brothers, and we were
[4:02] Speaker 2: brought up to have goals and to contribute back to society,
[4:07] Speaker 2: to this great country that we are in. And I
[4:10] Speaker 2: feel like I overcorrected on some of those things and
[4:15] Speaker 2: would go back and tell myself to slow down, to
[4:18] Speaker 2: do all those things, but much more slowly, and to
[4:23] Speaker 2: know what I know now, and that is that there's
[4:26] Speaker 2: such a long runway in your life and career that
[4:31] Speaker 2: rushing actually it destroys the process and it creates.
[4:41] Speaker 3: It.
[4:41] Speaker 2: Actually you missed the moment. And so I look back
[4:48] Speaker 2: at my younger self and I wish I could say, hey,
[4:51] Speaker 2: you know what, you got to slow down and feel
[4:54] Speaker 2: this and be here and take it all in and
[4:58] Speaker 2: be more mindful. It's sort of why one of the
[5:02] Speaker 2: major components of the messages on my women's platform, know
[5:07] Speaker 2: your value is slow down. It's a long runway, and
[5:11] Speaker 2: like the building blocks are are really important. You can't
[5:17] Speaker 2: like jump over three. So woe Nelly, is what I
[5:22] Speaker 2: would have said. Because I'm sort of born, uh, sort
[5:26] Speaker 2: of wired to be always accomplishing, and I think you
[5:35] Speaker 2: can get in the way of yourself. When you're constantly
[5:39] Speaker 2: focused on accomplishing, you.
[5:41] Speaker 1: Can get in the way of your joy or or
[5:44] Speaker 1: this sort of spontaneity that co or.
[5:46] Speaker 2: Other people's joy. My daughter's I tell you that, they
[5:52] Speaker 2: would be like whoa, yeah, yeah, a lot.
[5:56] Speaker 1: That's really interesting, but you know, I understand standard. It's
[6:01] Speaker 1: it's something I think when your parents come to a country,
[6:07] Speaker 1: you know, you speak about your family being refugees. My
[6:10] Speaker 1: dad immigrated here to go to university. And my mom's
[6:14] Speaker 1: mother immigrated here when she was a young child, and
[6:19] Speaker 1: the lore of coming here for the American dream is
[6:24] Speaker 1: so strong, and I think what it gives you is
[6:27] Speaker 1: such incredible grit and determination, and it makes you a
[6:30] Speaker 1: service minded person and all of these wonderful things. But
[6:34] Speaker 1: when you when you achieve or meet a goal and
[6:38] Speaker 1: then the immediate question is what's next. Yeah, sometimes you
[6:43] Speaker 1: miss the moment to go, wow, I did this, or
[6:46] Speaker 1: I saw this, or I can stop for coffee with
[6:49] Speaker 1: a friend today.
[6:50] Speaker 2: You know, right right, And I know how it happened
[6:52] Speaker 2: because when my parents came here, I mean the family
[6:56] Speaker 2: grew up in Da out of my mom' speaking of
[7:01] Speaker 2: Prasinski and Emily Benish Prasinski blinging the worst of the
[7:08] Speaker 2: worst and coming to America with nothing, and so everything
[7:14] Speaker 2: they did, everything was on the line every time, and
[7:19] Speaker 2: there was no safety net and there was no little
[7:22] Speaker 2: bit extra saved here or someone here to help you out.
[7:25] Speaker 2: There was nobody. So their attitude was like all hands
[7:29] Speaker 2: on deck, let's keep going. We're so lucky to be here.
[7:32] Speaker 2: But we've got to we've got to build, we've got
[7:35] Speaker 2: to create, we've got to make sure we build a
[7:39] Speaker 2: framework for this, and so it was built into me
[7:42] Speaker 2: that everything is on the line at all times, and
[7:44] Speaker 2: actually in this time, that is actually an important mindset
[7:50] Speaker 2: to keep when you're looking at what is happening politically,
[7:53] Speaker 2: which trust me, i'd love a break from talking about.
[7:55] Speaker 2: So I'm not veering into politics and less you want to.
[7:59] Speaker 2: But my point is everything that happened really is happening
[8:02] Speaker 2: right now, really matters, and it's really serious in a
[8:08] Speaker 2: way that I think many are still immune to or
[8:13] Speaker 2: avoidant of. We're in it, and my parents taught me
[8:20] Speaker 2: this is dead serious democracy. It's fragile, and it's serious,
[8:27] Speaker 2: and it's based on values, it's based on beliefs, and
[8:31] Speaker 2: it's based on everybody working toward the same thing. And
[8:37] Speaker 2: we're not there anymore. So they'd be heartbroken. But when
[8:42] Speaker 2: they came here and as they were bringing up me
[8:44] Speaker 2: and my brothers, it was an all hands on deck
[8:47] Speaker 2: moment every day. And I get that. I get that,
[8:52] Speaker 2: and I know it even more now.
[8:54] Speaker 1: I mean, it must, in a strange way, make you
[8:58] Speaker 1: feel for better or worse, like you know what you're
[9:02] Speaker 1: in for it right now. I think a lot of
[9:05] Speaker 1: people to your point about the disengagement or people that
[9:09] Speaker 1: are still for some reason, I can't make sense of saying, oh, well,
[9:12] Speaker 1: it couldn't happen here. You know, it's happening here. And
[9:17] Speaker 1: I think maybe because people have luckily known such relative
[9:25] Speaker 1: safety or prosperity in America for so long, they don't
[9:31] Speaker 1: really remember where we come from.
[9:33] Speaker 2: Correct.
[9:34] Speaker 1: The ones that are still alive and old enough who
[9:38] Speaker 1: say this is exactly how it happened in the nineteen thirties,
[9:42] Speaker 1: they started with the stories, they started with the terminology,
[9:45] Speaker 1: then they started with the deportations. It's happening, And I
[9:49] Speaker 1: think for a lot of people it's very hard to
[9:53] Speaker 1: register that the Boogeyman isn't a villain who walks in
[9:56] Speaker 1: the door. It's a whole system that builds on itself.
[10:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that, except us just writing down
[10:04] Speaker 2: a chronology here for you that is mixed into this.
[10:08] Speaker 2: So we have people my age and older I'm fifty eight,
[10:13] Speaker 2: my parents, for example, and obviously they grew up and
[10:18] Speaker 2: came here fleeing Hitler, understanding Soviet aggression and really seeing
[10:27] Speaker 2: how difficult it is to build what it is that
[10:32] Speaker 2: we have, this democracy, and to value it and contribute
[10:36] Speaker 2: to it my kids. Perhaps you you're younger than me.
[10:42] Speaker 2: So as you talk about the loss of a sense
[10:46] Speaker 2: of history in the younger generation, whether it's what's happening
[10:51] Speaker 2: in our schools or technology delivering stuff to us in
[10:56] Speaker 2: morsels instead of complete books, that sense that loss of
[11:01] Speaker 2: our stories mixed with a generation that started their life
[11:08] Speaker 2: at nine to eleven, financial crisis, school shootings becoming daily ritual,
[11:17] Speaker 2: and COVID lockdowns, and now where we are today, this
[11:23] Speaker 2: is a young population that has its own set of
[11:26] Speaker 2: anxieties that we as parents who are saying, don't forget
[11:30] Speaker 2: our history. Please, don't forget our history. Our lives depend
[11:34] Speaker 2: on it, our republic, our country depends on it. We're
[11:39] Speaker 2: speaking to a young generation that's very anxious and has
[11:43] Speaker 2: their own set of experiences that I think lay into
[11:49] Speaker 2: this very difficult landscape that we are in right now.
[11:55] Speaker 1: I agree with that. That's an excellent point, thank you,
[11:57] Speaker 1: because saw, of course a meme yesterday that said, oh, look,
[12:03] Speaker 1: millennials are on their five hundredth once in a lifetime event,
[12:07] Speaker 1: and when you think about what that is for many
[12:10] Speaker 1: of us, and then you think about the youth that
[12:12] Speaker 1: are growing up after us, this is almost all they
[12:18] Speaker 1: know in a way, and they've been told they have
[12:21] Speaker 1: to just tamp the anxiety down and keep going. So
[12:24] Speaker 1: I think it can be hard to imagine that this
[12:29] Speaker 1: is a time to ring the alarm bells because weren't
[12:33] Speaker 1: so many other times that they've lived through as well.
[12:37] Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's a desensitization, It might
[12:40] Speaker 1: be a a combination an equation of all these things.
[12:44] Speaker 1: But it really is fascinating to me, and I think
[12:47] Speaker 1: about your perspective in particular. You know, a parent of teenagers,
[12:53] Speaker 1: a refugee, you know, your dad becoming among all of
[12:57] Speaker 1: the other incredible things that he did it in Carter's
[13:00] Speaker 1: National Security Advisor. I mean, I can't imagine what the
[13:06] Speaker 1: dinner table conversations in your house were like as a child,
[13:12] Speaker 1: and I wish I could be a fly on the
[13:15] Speaker 1: wall for the conversations you're having now with your own children.
[13:18] Speaker 1: Do you think about that, the things you learned from
[13:23] Speaker 1: your parents in that role, and then the things you're
[13:26] Speaker 1: now trying to teach your children from your own role
[13:29] Speaker 1: as a trusted voice for the nation.
[13:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, the household I grew up and was absolutely fascinating.
[13:38] Speaker 2: I mean, not only was my dad a national security advisor.
[13:43] Speaker 2: But my mom was a world renowned sculptor and she
[13:48] Speaker 2: did these two ton pieces using a chainsaw and massive
[13:53] Speaker 2: tree trunks, and they were shown around the world, and
[13:57] Speaker 2: she had this massive studio in our house in mcclaim, Virginia.
[14:00] Speaker 2: So it was always like art, politics, foreign policy, let's debate,
[14:05] Speaker 2: go at thecred and multi lingual. By the way, both
[14:11] Speaker 2: my parents spoke three to four languages. My mother's mother
[14:15] Speaker 2: spoke eleven. She served as a translator during World War Two,
[14:20] Speaker 2: so very kind of I always kind of consider myself
[14:25] Speaker 2: there was the runt of the pack where my two
[14:29] Speaker 2: brothers were very deep intellectuals, and I was one's a Republican,
[14:35] Speaker 2: one's a Democrat. So I was always the mediator in
[14:38] Speaker 2: these family dinners. I'd find myself like cracking a joke
[14:41] Speaker 2: at the right time to cut the tension or what
[14:44] Speaker 2: was and then like, look at Morning Joe. Here I am,
[14:48] Speaker 2: it's perfect. Yeah, the morning table discussions we have feel
[14:53] Speaker 2: like my family dinner table discussions. And I felt when
[14:57] Speaker 2: Morning Joe started twenty years ago, almost believe it. I
[15:02] Speaker 2: felt very at home day one. Five minutes in, I
[15:06] Speaker 2: was like, huh, I found my home because this works
[15:10] Speaker 2: for me. This is like what I've done, and.
[15:13] Speaker 1: Now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy
[15:16] Speaker 1: and I think you will too. And when you think
[15:25] Speaker 1: about those things, that the kind of middle middleman middle
[15:32] Speaker 1: woman you had to play in certain debates with family,
[15:35] Speaker 1: you know how it makes you comfortable on your show.
[15:40] Speaker 1: I would be failing as if I didn't acknowledge the
[15:43] Speaker 1: fact that not only did you learn to listen to
[15:46] Speaker 1: all people's perspectives, but you have traversed this role across
[15:51] Speaker 1: a generation where things have really changed and then also
[15:55] Speaker 1: not changed a lot for women like us.
[15:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about when you.
[16:00] Speaker 1: Began your career, you know, the more overt barriers for
[16:04] Speaker 1: women in your industry and certainly in politics, and the
[16:09] Speaker 1: ways that we've seen a kind of expansion of access
[16:12] Speaker 1: for us and now an immense backlash to that, and
[16:16] Speaker 1: you know these attempts at at a retraction. How did
[16:20] Speaker 1: you begin then, when so many women were told no,
[16:25] Speaker 1: asserting your authority in those spaces that men thought they
[16:28] Speaker 1: should dominate.
[16:30] Speaker 2: Well, I didn't do it or I didn't do it well,
[16:35] Speaker 2: And it is exactly the reason I started to know
[16:39] Speaker 2: your value about eighteen years ago because I worked my
[16:45] Speaker 2: butt off to make it in this business. Started in
[16:48] Speaker 2: local news, working overnights, working crazy hours. I've worked every
[16:55] Speaker 2: job in this business that one can have on camera, reporting, radio,
[17:02] Speaker 2: TV correspondent, local news anchor, local news reporter, magazine, show,
[17:10] Speaker 2: you name it, I've done it. And I noticed that
[17:18] Speaker 2: every time I got a new job, or sign a
[17:20] Speaker 2: new contract, or got fired and then started again somewhere,
[17:26] Speaker 2: I didn't cut a very good deal for myself. I
[17:30] Speaker 2: didn't even know my value. I had no idea how
[17:33] Speaker 2: to argue it. I hired agents and that was not productive. Actually,
[17:39] Speaker 2: to have someone else speak for you. It's one of
[17:42] Speaker 2: the biggest pieces of advice I give to women now
[17:45] Speaker 2: is speak for yourself. No one is going to care
[17:48] Speaker 2: more about you and your value and the value you
[17:51] Speaker 2: need to bring home for your family than you. No
[17:53] Speaker 2: one's going to articulate it better, no one but you,
[17:57] Speaker 2: and if you can't, you need to learn. And I
[18:02] Speaker 2: struggled with this, and I cut so many bad deals.
[18:05] Speaker 2: I even cut a really bad deal for myself from
[18:08] Speaker 2: Morning Joe and Wow, I realized if I we were
[18:13] Speaker 2: just talking about my family and how incredible they are,
[18:15] Speaker 2: multi lingual. I mean, they pushed us to educate ourselves
[18:20] Speaker 2: and to go to the finest institutions and to try
[18:23] Speaker 2: and get the best grades. My brothers did me not
[18:26] Speaker 2: so much, but they pushed us to learn so much.
[18:30] Speaker 2: And yet I couldn't speak for myself. And yet I
[18:32] Speaker 2: kept doing the same thing. I kept not being able
[18:36] Speaker 2: to do what the guys did. And so my answer
[18:41] Speaker 2: to you is I did not do a good job
[18:43] Speaker 2: at this. And it was frustrating to me because I
[18:46] Speaker 2: said to myself, my gosh, with all the support and
[18:50] Speaker 2: education and incredible family legacy that I am so blessed
[18:54] Speaker 2: to have, I can't do this for myself. My god,
[18:57] Speaker 2: what is a woman who doesn't live in a major
[19:02] Speaker 2: like New York or DC or LA or whatever, or
[19:05] Speaker 2: even does, but it doesn't have the skills, doesn't have
[19:07] Speaker 2: the education, maybe doesn't have the confidence, maybe doesn't have
[19:10] Speaker 2: the support of the people, like a group that loves
[19:14] Speaker 2: her and then supports here and loves her no matter what.
[19:16] Speaker 2: You know, all those things that kind of build you,
[19:20] Speaker 2: how do they do it? And the answer was that don't.
[19:23] Speaker 2: And so I created know your value to start talking
[19:27] Speaker 2: about how you advocate for yourself. What that looks like,
[19:30] Speaker 2: what that feels like, what that dress is like, what
[19:33] Speaker 2: that eye contact is like? What those words are about you?
[19:38] Speaker 2: And why you should use them all the time. And
[19:41] Speaker 2: I remember when I first created this and I started
[19:44] Speaker 2: doing events, I noticed it honestly looked like a light
[19:48] Speaker 2: bulb was going off in the women's minds and the
[19:50] Speaker 2: audiences around me. And they were young women, older women,
[19:54] Speaker 2: women who were very successful, women who had not had
[20:00] Speaker 2: a job yet, women who were trying to get back
[20:02] Speaker 2: in women's of all shape, sizes, backgrounds, and they all
[20:09] Speaker 2: were like, yes, I need to know this, even despite
[20:13] Speaker 2: that some of them had actually made it to a
[20:15] Speaker 2: certain level in their career like I had. And it
[20:19] Speaker 2: started a conversation that's really grown into a global network
[20:24] Speaker 2: of events, conversations and sort of mutual support in the
[20:31] Speaker 2: Know your Value community so that we can kind of
[20:34] Speaker 2: empower each other to step up for ourselves.
[20:38] Speaker 1: Yes, it's so important and in every industry and every vertical.
[20:43] Speaker 1: I spoke about this recently with Vivian two, who you
[20:48] Speaker 1: probably know from Instagram as your rich bff. She's giving
[20:51] Speaker 1: all the young women financial advice, and I said, listen,
[20:54] Speaker 1: you know you talk about these zones of privilege, right
[20:57] Speaker 1: these cities where you can pursue a big career. I'd
[21:00] Speaker 1: been on TV for twenty years before I was paid
[21:05] Speaker 1: equally to my male co star, twenty.
[21:08] Speaker 2: Years a long time Sophia, and it was.
[21:10] Speaker 1: A fight to get what I was worth. And I
[21:15] Speaker 1: had to have the conversation to shocked faces of people
[21:20] Speaker 1: in power that said, if you're going to reserve twice
[21:23] Speaker 1: the salary for a yet unpicked man to.
[21:28] Speaker 2: Play my co star, well it's a problem. Why aren't our.
[21:33] Speaker 1: Salaries going to be the same. And because it wasn't oh,
[21:37] Speaker 1: well we got so and so and he's I don't
[21:39] Speaker 1: know one, an Oscar or something like. It wasn't that conversation.
[21:42] Speaker 1: It was, well, we don't know who he is, but
[21:44] Speaker 1: he's a man so and it really taught me, you know,
[21:49] Speaker 1: Ever since that experience, as much as all the women
[21:52] Speaker 1: in my life have advocated for each other and tried
[21:55] Speaker 1: to advise each other, that experience for me made me
[21:58] Speaker 1: the person that says, let me print my contract out
[22:01] Speaker 1: for you, let me get you the points in my
[22:02] Speaker 1: deal memo, let's figure out. And now every woman I
[22:06] Speaker 1: know shares where I'm at, what I'm getting how I
[22:10] Speaker 1: got there?
[22:10] Speaker 2: What should I be asked?
[22:11] Speaker 1: I love it, and it really it changes our lives.
[22:15] Speaker 1: And the men have always been encouraged to do this.
[22:18] Speaker 1: But there's something I think that's so societal, and I
[22:22] Speaker 1: want to I don't want to tread lightly, but I
[22:24] Speaker 1: want to be careful because my fear is that if
[22:27] Speaker 1: you undo certain aspects that I think are good for us,
[22:31] Speaker 1: you know, prioritizing others, dedicating yourself to service, we don't
[22:37] Speaker 1: need a society where we care about each other less.
[22:39] Speaker 1: Just look at us now. But women. You know, an
[22:43] Speaker 1: author that I know wrote this in a book and
[22:45] Speaker 1: said the greatest compliment we give women as we say,
[22:48] Speaker 1: she's so selfless, so she is without self. And I
[22:54] Speaker 1: will never forget reading it and thinking, oh, I will
[22:56] Speaker 1: never again compliment a woman I admire and say, God,
[22:59] Speaker 1: she's just so selfless in x Arena, I say, I
[23:03] Speaker 1: really admire her commitment to service in x Arena, I
[23:06] Speaker 1: really admire her fight for justice in x Arena. I
[23:10] Speaker 1: will never call a woman selfless again, because I don't
[23:13] Speaker 1: want us to be encouraged, even subconsciously, to erase ourselves.
[23:19] Speaker 2: Yes I do, and I'm trying to think of I've
[23:23] Speaker 2: ever heard of a man being described as selfless. So
[23:26] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's really interesting.
[23:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, he's powerful, he's tenacious, right, and not to undermine.
[23:34] Speaker 2: Like I I learned some of my best skills on
[23:38] Speaker 2: self advocating from men. They're encouraged to do it and
[23:43] Speaker 2: they naturally do it, and I want us to naturally
[23:47] Speaker 2: understand how to do it too and not you know,
[23:51] Speaker 2: I have found that this my industry is full of
[23:54] Speaker 2: really supportive men who also got really good deals for themselves,
[23:59] Speaker 2: and there's things to be learned from. So I again,
[24:03] Speaker 2: in the community that I've built, I try and talk
[24:08] Speaker 2: about the part of the equation that we can control,
[24:13] Speaker 2: you know, the part where we need to come to
[24:16] Speaker 2: the table for ourselves, step up and say it, and
[24:21] Speaker 2: how do you practice that, lift up other women, help them.
[24:24] Speaker 2: I mean, there are tons, tons of different situations I
[24:26] Speaker 2: can think of in the past twenty years where there
[24:30] Speaker 2: was maybe a woman I worked with who was struggling
[24:34] Speaker 2: with getting a new contract and I would pick up
[24:36] Speaker 2: the phone and negotiate for her in front of her
[24:39] Speaker 2: and like show her how it's done, and it's good practice.
[24:43] Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll do it for you because I want
[24:45] Speaker 2: to show you, first of all, how naturally it needs
[24:48] Speaker 2: to come. I want to show you your value that
[24:50] Speaker 2: I would do this for you. I will, I'll find
[24:54] Speaker 2: a way to invest in you if necessary. Let me
[24:56] Speaker 2: show you in any way I can, and you find
[24:59] Speaker 2: that you can use these opportunities when you're lifting up
[25:02] Speaker 2: other women to practice your own skills on self advocating,
[25:05] Speaker 2: like I get very irate on behalf of other women. Yes,
[25:10] Speaker 2: and really get in there and get my hands. No
[25:14] Speaker 2: one's you know, going to fire me for sticking up
[25:17] Speaker 2: for someone, and if you are, and I want to
[25:19] Speaker 2: work for you, but that part, you know, we've done it,
[25:23] Speaker 2: like both Joe and I for people on our team,
[25:27] Speaker 2: like we just get in there and we don't give
[25:34] Speaker 2: up on people, and then that sort of makes them
[25:38] Speaker 2: spread and pay it forward. And for me, especially with
[25:44] Speaker 2: younger women, it's about showing how it's done. In the
[25:48] Speaker 2: beginning of Know Your Value, it was almost like a
[25:50] Speaker 2: permission structure. Women were so shocked to hear that this
[25:55] Speaker 2: was something they could do and should do. I mean
[25:58] Speaker 2: I literally I was like light bulbs going off and
[26:02] Speaker 2: we were in bad shape. I think we're in better
[26:05] Speaker 2: shape now and now the setbacks are coming from our
[26:09] Speaker 2: political situation, yes, and you know, on the legal front,
[26:14] Speaker 2: I think where women are practically under attack and so
[26:20] Speaker 2: we have different challenges.
[26:22] Speaker 5: But in.
[26:25] Speaker 2: Terms of professional development, we were making some really good headway.
[26:30] Speaker 1: Yes, well, I think that's part of the reason that
[26:32] Speaker 1: you see the backlash in the political system. You know,
[26:36] Speaker 1: it's not lost on me that we're talking about major
[26:40] Speaker 1: gains for women in nineteen seventy three, nineteen seventy four,
[26:43] Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties in terms of reproductive autonomy, being able
[26:47] Speaker 1: to sign a lease without a man, being able to
[26:49] Speaker 1: get a small business loan without a man. You know,
[26:52] Speaker 1: these are within one generation. And I think this momentum
[26:56] Speaker 1: women have chosen to build with each other organizations like yours,
[27:00] Speaker 1: advocacy like we all do, is very scary to the
[27:04] Speaker 1: old power structures, and they go, uh oh, we've let
[27:06] Speaker 1: them in and look what they're doing, and they're moving
[27:09] Speaker 1: very quickly, and so they want to take away from
[27:12] Speaker 1: us anywhere they can. And my my sincerest hope is
[27:16] Speaker 1: that to your point, the good guys among us help
[27:21] Speaker 1: us fight that fight too, not just in our negotiations
[27:25] Speaker 1: but also in our voting booths. You know, also in
[27:28] Speaker 1: our legislative systems. We need that so so much.
[27:33] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[27:33] Speaker 2: No, I'm very concerned about my daughter's futures, their lives,
[27:39] Speaker 2: their children Someday, I am. You know, they don't have
[27:42] Speaker 2: the rights that I grew up with. That's crazy. It's
[27:46] Speaker 2: crazy where we are.
[27:48] Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, I think about how relevant
[27:57] Speaker 1: all of this is, you know, to both work and
[28:01] Speaker 1: home for you because you and Joe have been doing
[28:07] Speaker 1: this show together since two thousand and seven. You know,
[28:09] Speaker 1: in the course of this career a personal relationship blossomed.
[28:14] Speaker 1: This is your life, this is your family.
[28:16] Speaker 2: You know.
[28:18] Speaker 1: He is clearly a wonderful support system for you. As
[28:22] Speaker 1: you've said, he's a great ally for other women in
[28:24] Speaker 1: your workplace. But I'm really curious in this big life
[28:28] Speaker 1: you've built, when you reflect on it so far, what
[28:33] Speaker 1: do you think made him and makes him such a
[28:36] Speaker 1: great match for you on and off their.
[28:42] Speaker 2: Wow. Well, first of all, I think he's just on
[28:46] Speaker 2: a professional This is the easier part. I think he's
[28:51] Speaker 2: literally the most talented man on television in the world
[28:56] Speaker 2: the political analysis and news. Name one who comes close.
[29:01] Speaker 2: And I've always felt that way, and I felt like
[29:05] Speaker 2: when we met and when the show started, we both
[29:10] Speaker 2: sort of were better together than we were doing our
[29:14] Speaker 2: separate shows that we did alone. And it was a
[29:20] Speaker 2: lot of people said to me, oh, how long have
[29:23] Speaker 2: you guys known each other? And I was like, I
[29:25] Speaker 2: met him an hour ago or yesterday. I mean, I
[29:28] Speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about. And so that came
[29:31] Speaker 2: first where everyone was sort of like having this reaction
[29:34] Speaker 2: to how we were. We were so natural together on
[29:37] Speaker 2: the air, and he is literally the kindest person I
[29:46] Speaker 2: will ever know. He comes across so confident, and people
[29:52] Speaker 2: I think tend to think things come easy for him,
[29:58] Speaker 2: and I see what he does to lift people up,
[30:04] Speaker 2: every single person on our show when we started Mourning Joe,
[30:08] Speaker 2: and this reflects in his life as well. He is
[30:11] Speaker 2: always making sure that he puts the person he's speaking with,
[30:17] Speaker 2: or the people he has on the show, or the
[30:19] Speaker 2: person he's introducing to or someone in is above himself.
[30:23] Speaker 2: And he's always in service of others, and he does
[30:28] Speaker 2: it so well that people don't even know it's happening.
[30:32] Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many careers he's revived, including
[30:37] Speaker 2: quite frankly, when we started our show, a lot of
[30:41] Speaker 2: us were like, where do we all come from. We
[30:43] Speaker 2: all well had all left or been moved out of
[30:47] Speaker 2: different slots and different jobs, and we all ended up.
[30:53] Speaker 2: If you look at like Mourning Joe nineteen twenty years ago,
[30:57] Speaker 2: it was like Joe knew how to make a symphony work,
[31:01] Speaker 2: and this symphony of conversation, of positive, sivil, idealistic, hopeful
[31:10] Speaker 2: conversation that also includes political prognostication. And he's able to
[31:16] Speaker 2: move everyone forward, challenging them every step of the way
[31:21] Speaker 2: in a gentle enough way that their best comes out.
[31:25] Speaker 2: And he does that in his personal life and is
[31:27] Speaker 2: with his family as well. He's always bringing the best
[31:30] Speaker 2: out in people. And the only thing I'll say is
[31:35] Speaker 2: the part that I can explain is that we're together
[31:38] Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day and we're just so happy.
[31:41] Speaker 2: And that's I don't really know what that's about. But
[31:45] Speaker 2: when you find that, you know, you you cherish it.
[31:50] Speaker 2: And of course it's not I can't really say, like
[31:55] Speaker 2: he brings me ice cream. I don't know what it is,
[31:57] Speaker 2: but it's just always together. I can. I'll have him
[32:00] Speaker 2: come in and say hi. Oh wait but he won't
[32:04] Speaker 2: Oh but he won't have headphones, come say hi to
[32:07] Speaker 2: Sophia behind that wall.
[32:11] Speaker 1: Oh I love it.
[32:12] Speaker 2: You know, I think after a couple of years or
[32:15] Speaker 2: twenty you might be like, I need a little space.
[32:19] Speaker 2: That's just not how we are. It's a little weird.
[32:22] Speaker 2: We'll say. People are like, oh, you do this, so
[32:25] Speaker 2: you together twenty four to seven, and we're both like, yeah, okay, that's.
[32:30] Speaker 1: How we like it.
[32:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
[32:33] Speaker 1: I think there's something really incredible about that sort of
[32:38] Speaker 1: lightning rod experience when you are an adult and suddenly
[32:43] Speaker 1: you realize like, oh, it's it's you wait what And
[32:49] Speaker 1: I don't know. I've now come across enough couples who've
[32:53] Speaker 1: had the experience and you just go, oh, this is something,
[32:58] Speaker 1: and then yeah, you don't you don't want to waste
[33:00] Speaker 1: a minute. And I think that's very cool. I am
[33:04] Speaker 1: curious for you too, because I mean, you just, you know,
[33:08] Speaker 1: waxed poetically about your connection.
[33:12] Speaker 2: How do you.
[33:14] Speaker 1: Figure out did you have to set ground rules for
[33:19] Speaker 1: how you would manage disagreements or differences of opinion over
[33:23] Speaker 1: stories or at work or has it always just felt
[33:26] Speaker 1: like even when you don't agree, you can understand each other.
[33:31] Speaker 2: So Sophia's asking how we manage disagreements, especially on the show,
[33:37] Speaker 2: or does it just I'm going to give them an headphone?
[33:39] Speaker 2: Can I do that?
[33:40] Speaker 5: Yeah?
[33:40] Speaker 2: Give him an airplod I love it and say hi,
[33:43] Speaker 2: I was just talking about how we're together twenty four seven.
[33:46] Speaker 2: This is so fun.
[33:48] Speaker 1: By the way, you just got a belated holiday gift.
[33:51] Speaker 1: In the way that this woman is talking about you too,
[33:53] Speaker 1: it's so sweet. It makes me want to cry.
[33:56] Speaker 5: It's really something.
[33:57] Speaker 3: And we do spend so much time together and we
[34:03] Speaker 3: do manage disagreements pretty well. But the way we manage
[34:06] Speaker 3: our disagreements are by being.
[34:10] Speaker 5: Very straightforward with each other. Yeah, very safety, and I
[34:15] Speaker 5: let her win rest of the time.
[34:19] Speaker 1: Heavy wife, happy life, honey.
[34:21] Speaker 5: Yeah, happy wife, happy life.
[34:23] Speaker 2: No. You know.
[34:24] Speaker 3: The funny thing is that we balance each other out
[34:27] Speaker 3: very well. I think in the past we were both
[34:31] Speaker 3: a bit more passive aggressive before we met each other,
[34:35] Speaker 3: and that we'd say, let's just keep the peace and
[34:39] Speaker 3: let's sweep.
[34:40] Speaker 5: Everything under the carpet.
[34:42] Speaker 3: And so when we met each other, we were just
[34:44] Speaker 3: very straightforward and it's very easy to say, you know, hey,
[34:50] Speaker 3: we never go to bed.
[34:51] Speaker 5: Angry when you fight all day. We don't fight all
[34:54] Speaker 5: day now.
[34:55] Speaker 3: But if there are any problems we get it right
[34:59] Speaker 3: out of the but we have such a trust in
[35:03] Speaker 3: each other that we we have each other's best interest
[35:08] Speaker 3: in heart. That helps, But sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it
[35:12] Speaker 3: hurts really bad. I'm a musician and I write songs.
[35:15] Speaker 3: I've been doing it since I was fourteen years old.
[35:17] Speaker 3: You didn't tell her this.
[35:18] Speaker 5: Did you.
[35:18] Speaker 1: I did not know that.
[35:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, and so good. You'd just go on Spotify and
[35:23] Speaker 2: look up Joe Scarborough. I'm so good, Sophia. I have
[35:27] Speaker 2: been living under a rock.
[35:29] Speaker 3: So Mika is my biggest fan and biggest supporter, and
[35:34] Speaker 3: she pushes me. But sometimes, very rarely, like this past weekend.
[35:40] Speaker 3: I'll play a song for it, go what do you think?
[35:42] Speaker 3: And this line I think it was Sunday. She listened
[35:45] Speaker 3: to the song and I'm thinking she's gonna really love
[35:47] Speaker 3: this one.
[35:48] Speaker 5: Head and hands. At the end, she goes, what am
[35:51] Speaker 5: I supposed to do?
[35:52] Speaker 6: I said, just tell the truth, sweetie, just tell the
[35:55] Speaker 6: truth like you always do. She goes, it's awful, but
[36:02] Speaker 6: you know, like you're like what, she doesn't know what
[36:06] Speaker 6: she's talking about.
[36:07] Speaker 3: But then again, because we trust each other so much,
[36:11] Speaker 3: when I'm spending the rest of the day going okay,
[36:13] Speaker 3: how do I need to rearrange that?
[36:14] Speaker 5: And that's that. It helps.
[36:17] Speaker 3: It always helps to have that person that can tell
[36:20] Speaker 3: you no, that you know is in your corner.
[36:23] Speaker 2: You know well.
[36:24] Speaker 1: And I was saying this to Mika before you came in.
[36:27] Speaker 1: I think there's something really there's something so special about
[36:32] Speaker 1: your your life and the future it sets up for
[36:35] Speaker 1: you when you have that, you know, settled adult experience
[36:39] Speaker 1: and suddenly this person who sits in front of you
[36:42] Speaker 1: all day you go like, wait a second, it's you,
[36:44] Speaker 1: Oh my god, and there's I don't know you. You
[36:48] Speaker 1: already had so much under your belt, in your in
[36:51] Speaker 1: your rhythm, and it's it's really cool to see you guys.
[36:54] Speaker 2: And I like.
[36:55] Speaker 1: Getting this moment with you too, because I love coming
[36:57] Speaker 1: on the show and being like, well, the thing about democracy,
[37:00] Speaker 1: but this is also really fun.
[37:02] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[37:03] Speaker 3: Now we're we are extraordinarily blessed and we know it.
[37:06] Speaker 5: Every day we wake up.
[37:08] Speaker 3: I will tell you, we wake up at four thirty
[37:10] Speaker 3: every morning, and at forty four thirty every morning we go.
[37:14] Speaker 5: Oh my god.
[37:16] Speaker 3: And then at four thirty one we're like, Okay, we're grateful,
[37:20] Speaker 3: we have a job, we're together.
[37:22] Speaker 5: And yeah, so we have We're blessed, very very pleased.
[37:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, great, guys, I'll give you all right, thank.
[37:31] Speaker 4: You sweeting, all right, so sweet, he is sweet, So
[37:35] Speaker 4: good to see you, she said, sweet, I love I
[37:41] Speaker 4: love a little a little drive by drop in.
[37:43] Speaker 1: It's so lovely. You know something I'm really curious about
[37:50] Speaker 1: sort of expanding on this, and I know people want
[37:53] Speaker 1: to know about it now. And I think about it
[37:56] Speaker 1: in terms of you have commitments as journal lists, you
[38:01] Speaker 1: have personal opinions. You have a sometimes a requirement that
[38:07] Speaker 1: you leave your opinions at the door to do your jobs.
[38:10] Speaker 1: You know each other's opinions more intimately than most because
[38:15] Speaker 1: you're married. When you come up against a moment like
[38:19] Speaker 1: the big explosive thing where you know, you've both been
[38:24] Speaker 1: incredibly vocal critics of our current president and his administration,
[38:28] Speaker 1: rightfully so. But in twenty twenty four you went tomorrow
[38:33] Speaker 1: lago to meet with him. People were very upset. I
[38:39] Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, you know, as your friend, and
[38:41] Speaker 1: sometimes guessed. I was like, what are they doing? And
[38:43] Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, right, journalism, that's yeah, calm down,
[38:47] Speaker 1: Sophia and I and I've thought about you guys a
[38:50] Speaker 1: lot since then, because you signed up to inform the public,
[38:57] Speaker 1: and sometimes that means putting your personal opinion aside. And
[39:01] Speaker 1: the Internet is hot and angry all the time. But
[39:05] Speaker 1: you know, now it's twenty twenty six and I think
[39:06] Speaker 1: we're far enough past it. I'm curious how it felt
[39:10] Speaker 1: for you. You know, everybody wants to know if you
[39:14] Speaker 1: were chastised enough, or some people will say, well, what
[39:18] Speaker 1: did you expect? But I'm less curious about the internet's
[39:21] Speaker 1: opinions and more curious about how you figure out how
[39:27] Speaker 1: to be a human with feelings and also do your job.
[39:30] Speaker 5: Well.
[39:30] Speaker 2: That's kind of a daily challenge because every day there's
[39:35] Speaker 2: a new challenge and something new that is that we
[39:39] Speaker 2: have to address. It's such a difficult time, and the
[39:48] Speaker 2: reaction to the meeting that we had and quite frankly
[39:55] Speaker 2: ongoing conversations that we're having is I guess painful because
[40:02] Speaker 2: I don't know what you know. I don't think the
[40:05] Speaker 2: solution is not talking, So that will never be a
[40:11] Speaker 2: Morning Joe solution to like cut off yourself from people
[40:18] Speaker 2: who are in power to try and understand what's going
[40:20] Speaker 2: on to help move the conversation in any way we
[40:27] Speaker 2: can in a positive direction that brings smart voices to
[40:35] Speaker 2: the table that help understand what's happening, but also say
[40:40] Speaker 2: what it is.
[40:42] Speaker 5: Right.
[40:42] Speaker 2: All of that involves doing your job and making calls
[40:47] Speaker 2: and meeting with people and so you know it is.
[40:53] Speaker 2: It is something that would do again, and I would
[40:57] Speaker 2: do again tomorrow. Right. The one thing that I think
[41:01] Speaker 2: that we and me especially I realized when this past
[41:07] Speaker 2: election and Trump won. I don't know how many times
[41:11] Speaker 2: I can line my hair on fire and tell people that,
[41:15] Speaker 2: you know, when he says he's going to do something,
[41:18] Speaker 2: he means it. And it's been very frustrating and hard
[41:21] Speaker 2: to communicate and hard to sort of distill, which is,
[41:25] Speaker 2: you know, our job. It's sort of like help people
[41:27] Speaker 2: understand what is going on. Joe is really good at
[41:31] Speaker 2: prognosticating in politics. We'd all bring different expertise to the table.
[41:36] Speaker 2: But the one part that has been frustrating is the
[41:42] Speaker 2: and this people on all political backgrounds, all sides of
[41:47] Speaker 2: the aisle, both sides of the aisle, are I think
[41:50] Speaker 2: guilty of saying, well, he doesn't really mean it. I mean,
[41:55] Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many people I spoke to
[41:57] Speaker 2: who definitely understood the concerns of another Trump presidency, who
[42:05] Speaker 2: were experts on our show and off our show with
[42:09] Speaker 2: deep knowledge of history, and this is what they do.
[42:13] Speaker 2: They study this. Who did not think that he was
[42:16] Speaker 2: serious about retribution, who did not think he was serious
[42:22] Speaker 2: about tariffs. I know there are a lot of Trump
[42:25] Speaker 2: voters that I spoke to myself in the state of Florida,
[42:28] Speaker 2: for example, when prices for a service jumped sixty percent,
[42:35] Speaker 2: and you'd ask why, and they'd say, well, you know,
[42:37] Speaker 2: the tariffs. And I'd be like, you voted for him,
[42:42] Speaker 2: and now this is happening to your business. And the
[42:45] Speaker 2: Trump voter would say, well, I didn't think he was
[42:47] Speaker 2: serious about it. And I'm just thinking to myself, this
[42:51] Speaker 2: is the part of this that I'm still working through,
[42:53] Speaker 2: and I I invite help on understanding because I grew
[43:00] Speaker 2: up in a very realistic family that is like thinks
[43:04] Speaker 2: the worst first and you know, and prepares for the worst.
[43:09] Speaker 2: And when someone tells you who they are, my job
[43:13] Speaker 2: is to believe them.
[43:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a
[43:18] Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. It's really interesting, you know,
[43:30] Speaker 1: the entirety of what you just said gives me a
[43:32] Speaker 1: few thoughts. So I'm going to try to make sure
[43:34] Speaker 1: I get them all out one being. I really thought
[43:37] Speaker 1: about this for the two of you, and it did
[43:41] Speaker 1: shape and shift, you know, even some of my maybe
[43:46] Speaker 1: unconscious thoughts about journalists. When I saw him starting to
[43:50] Speaker 1: ban journalists from the White House, ban the AP, welcome
[43:55] Speaker 1: conspiracy theorist bloggers, and I was going, oh my god,
[43:59] Speaker 1: we have to have journalists. Are real, true journalists there
[44:02] Speaker 1: everywhere all the time. You know, thank you for doing
[44:06] Speaker 1: your job no matter what. And then when you say
[44:09] Speaker 1: the second piece about why people don't take him seriously,
[44:13] Speaker 1: I feel the same way as Yumika. It makes me crazy.
[44:17] Speaker 1: For a decade, so many of us feel like we've
[44:21] Speaker 1: been screaming into the void warning about what's coming. And
[44:26] Speaker 1: the sort of duality I sit with, and the way
[44:30] Speaker 1: I try to talk to people who might be coming
[44:32] Speaker 1: around to reality or who also want to talk about
[44:35] Speaker 1: it is, you know, I think we're in a strange
[44:40] Speaker 1: It's like riding a seesaw.
[44:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, because so many of the.
[44:45] Speaker 1: Things he says are so unhinged that you think someone's
[44:47] Speaker 1: going to stop him, but no one knows.
[44:49] Speaker 2: No, it's no one's coming, No one's coming, No one's
[44:53] Speaker 2: coming because.
[44:54] Speaker 1: He loves retribution, and everyone's afraid. And it's this the
[44:59] Speaker 1: duality I see is, on one.
[45:01] Speaker 2: Hand, you can't be afraid. Yes, I will never be afraid.
[45:05] Speaker 2: I will, and me.
[45:07] Speaker 1: Neither, and me neither. And I think that's why so
[45:10] Speaker 1: many women, and you see women in leadership in Congress,
[45:12] Speaker 1: in the Senate who aren't afraid. But a lot of
[45:14] Speaker 1: these men are running with their tails between their.
[45:16] Speaker 2: Legs, I know.
[45:17] Speaker 1: But what strikes me is, on the one hand, he
[45:22] Speaker 1: runs his company, his companies, his failing companies, his fraudulent companies,
[45:26] Speaker 1: like organized crime syndicates. He always has has always said
[45:31] Speaker 1: what do he means, said disgusting things about people, barred
[45:34] Speaker 1: black people from his buildings. He has always done these
[45:38] Speaker 1: things out in the open, by the way, you know,
[45:41] Speaker 1: been charged over and over again, had to pay settlements
[45:44] Speaker 1: over and over again. He's the most indicted I mean,
[45:47] Speaker 1: political leader I think ever. And on the other hand,
[45:51] Speaker 1: he's this gruff, not well spoken, sort of blubbering guy
[45:58] Speaker 1: from a reality show. And I think people think of
[46:01] Speaker 1: him like a cartoon villain more than they think of
[46:06] Speaker 1: him as a serious person. So everyone assumes, like, ah,
[46:09] Speaker 1: that guy's kind of joking. He talks a big talk,
[46:14] Speaker 1: but it makes me think of what President Obama said
[46:17] Speaker 1: years ago. The presidency does not make you the man
[46:22] Speaker 1: or person you are. It reveals what kind of person
[46:26] Speaker 1: you are.
[46:27] Speaker 2: And so we've.
[46:28] Speaker 1: Given someone with these mafioso tendencies keys.
[46:34] Speaker 2: To the castle.
[46:35] Speaker 1: And now we're watching him and his friend's pillage the
[46:38] Speaker 1: world and the economies and our resources and destroy the
[46:43] Speaker 1: rights of women because we stand up to him.
[46:46] Speaker 2: And it's tough. Yeah, I will say that I think
[46:50] Speaker 2: of me before the election, this past presidential election, and
[46:53] Speaker 2: me after I was like on late shows on the view,
[47:00] Speaker 2: I was going out everywhere. I think I was screaming,
[47:05] Speaker 2: actually warning people about this. I mean, I put myself
[47:11] Speaker 2: out there and felt as invalidated, I guess as anyone
[47:17] Speaker 2: else who who who you know does what we do
[47:21] Speaker 2: felt when he won the election. And but I also
[47:26] Speaker 2: I never didn't take him seriously. I knew what was coming.
[47:32] Speaker 2: And it is painful to be covering some of the
[47:37] Speaker 2: things that we are witnessing that is happening to our
[47:41] Speaker 2: fellow people. Uh, these ice raids and different ways that
[47:46] Speaker 2: people are being marginalized and hurt in these deportations, how
[47:53] Speaker 2: it's impacting the media, my former employer, CBS and other places.
[48:00] Speaker 2: I mean, this is all incredibly painful to watch, and
[48:02] Speaker 2: I've been realizing that this is a whole new beginning.
[48:07] Speaker 2: I got a gird up, and there's no there's no
[48:11] Speaker 2: like pulling back and resting or going part time or
[48:14] Speaker 2: doing anything like that. At this point in my life.
[48:17] Speaker 2: The only thing I can do is go to work
[48:19] Speaker 2: and stay centered and stay focused and try not to
[48:25] Speaker 2: lose it, because that's losing. Not going to be afraid,
[48:32] Speaker 2: not going to be afraid to use my voice, not
[48:35] Speaker 2: going to be afraid to engage at the same time,
[48:38] Speaker 2: to learn as much as I can, and to try
[48:42] Speaker 2: and bring the best information I can to anyone who
[48:45] Speaker 2: wants to hear it in a very polarized media landscape.
[48:51] Speaker 2: It is a daily set of decisions.
[48:57] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, in a daily practice, I imagine every day
[49:01] Speaker 1: is different.
[49:02] Speaker 2: Yes, But listening to you talk and.
[49:04] Speaker 1: Get impassioned, it's it's the same sort of passion I
[49:07] Speaker 1: heard in your voice talking about encouraging women to know
[49:11] Speaker 1: their worth, And in a way, it strikes me that
[49:14] Speaker 1: what you're saying is you know your worth and you
[49:16] Speaker 1: know the value of good, honest communication that speaks truth
[49:21] Speaker 1: to power in a moment like this. And I know
[49:23] Speaker 1: I speak for a lot of us when I say,
[49:25] Speaker 1: we're very, very grateful that we have you in the fight.
[49:28] Speaker 1: And you know that you that you don't succumb to
[49:34] Speaker 1: the pressure or the fear that they are trying to
[49:37] Speaker 1: instill in so many people.
[49:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's hard. I'm not going to say, you know,
[49:41] Speaker 2: it's not. This is hard. This is hard, but it's
[49:46] Speaker 2: not impossible because this is the United States of America
[49:50] Speaker 2: that part.
[49:50] Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting it that's not funny, but
[49:54] Speaker 1: it almost the passion for it charms me in a
[49:57] Speaker 1: way because you made me giggle. Recently. You were asked about,
[50:02] Speaker 1: you know, the things you get to do as a
[50:04] Speaker 1: professional in your fifties, and you said, well, now I
[50:06] Speaker 1: get to save it. I couldn't say that before. And
[50:09] Speaker 1: do you feel a little bit of free energy right now?
[50:12] Speaker 1: Like I think you have to to stay in the fight, right.
[50:15] Speaker 2: I will say that that is the only way to go.
[50:19] Speaker 2: It's the only way to go. You absolutely. Let me
[50:23] Speaker 2: just say that. We talk a lot about the Republicans
[50:26] Speaker 2: who won't hold the line, and I feel like one
[50:28] Speaker 2: of the major lines where they could have held it
[50:31] Speaker 2: was January sixth, and they the bed because that was,
[50:37] Speaker 2: honestly the opportunity to draw the line. And everything else
[50:42] Speaker 2: that has happened since it is because they didn't on that.
[50:46] Speaker 2: That was simple, that was simple, and they failed us.
[50:51] Speaker 2: And for me, it's like now none of us have
[50:55] Speaker 2: a choice but to hold the line, to have the kids,
[50:59] Speaker 2: like you said, and to drive forward and to not
[51:03] Speaker 2: be afraid. Let me tell you, being afraid or what
[51:07] Speaker 2: these Republicans are doing, it will not serve them well,
[51:10] Speaker 2: it will. It will be horrible for them in history,
[51:14] Speaker 2: in the history books, but probably before. One thing we
[51:18] Speaker 2: know about Donald Trump is if if he senses that
[51:22] Speaker 2: you're afraid, you're done, You're done. So you have no
[51:28] Speaker 2: choice but to have that. And that's what I mean
[51:31] Speaker 2: by a sort of every day is different because you
[51:34] Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen. It's very unpredictable, but
[51:37] Speaker 2: that we all knew was coming when he won. Anyone
[51:41] Speaker 2: who's surprised about what is going on now was not
[51:45] Speaker 2: listening during the election. During his first term, during his
[51:49] Speaker 2: he campaigned out in the open and everything that is happening,
[51:55] Speaker 2: he absolutely told us what was going to happen, So
[51:57] Speaker 2: don't I know, you're not going to see me being shocked.
[52:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, Ever, how do you how do you think about
[52:04] Speaker 1: the midterms coming up this year? Are there stories you're
[52:08] Speaker 1: paying attention to? Are you watching what the posters are saying?
[52:13] Speaker 1: Or are you just head down doing the work, not
[52:16] Speaker 1: paying attention to any of the noise.
[52:19] Speaker 2: I'm very concerned about the midterms on a number of levels,
[52:22] Speaker 2: and I'm watching everything around election security, claims of fraud,
[52:32] Speaker 2: how potentially this could be dragged out. So there's you know,
[52:37] Speaker 2: uncertainty what different ways Republicans with nefarious intentions could take
[52:45] Speaker 2: advantage of our great country and our system of laws
[52:51] Speaker 2: and elections. And I'm hopeful, but I am eyes wide
[52:59] Speaker 2: open about how we move forward. And I urge everybody
[53:06] Speaker 2: to plan their vote and to think about their vote,
[53:11] Speaker 2: and to think about the midterms now, and don't forget
[53:15] Speaker 2: and spread the word and do what you think is
[53:18] Speaker 2: right for this country. If you don't like what you
[53:20] Speaker 2: see is happening, this is it is our last best
[53:23] Speaker 2: hope at expressing ourselves. And I hope that Americans are
[53:29] Speaker 2: inspired by their opportunity to cast their vote and say
[53:35] Speaker 2: how they feel me too, me too.
[53:38] Speaker 1: Well, I should say thank you so much for being
[53:40] Speaker 1: such an amazing supporter. I am a voter all these years.
[53:43] Speaker 1: It means a lot to us.
[53:44] Speaker 2: Oh, I love I am a voter and I have
[53:46] Speaker 2: my I am a voter's suitcase, a voter boots. I
[53:51] Speaker 2: love you. Thank you.
[53:53] Speaker 1: You know I agree with you. I think it's important
[53:55] Speaker 1: to remind people that that is a great way to mobilize.
[53:58] Speaker 1: You know, if I had it my way, we would
[54:00] Speaker 1: even know Kings March every Saturday until that man was
[54:02] Speaker 1: out of office. But I also know that a lot
[54:05] Speaker 1: of people don't have the time or resources to stop
[54:08] Speaker 1: their lives every week, but to plan the day, the
[54:14] Speaker 1: stoppage that you go and make your voice heard in
[54:17] Speaker 1: the in the booth is one of the most important
[54:19] Speaker 1: things a person can do.
[54:20] Speaker 2: And also a lot of people voted for him, And
[54:24] Speaker 2: don't close yourself off from connecting and don't judge. I
[54:32] Speaker 2: think that you know, the way we come together as
[54:34] Speaker 2: a country and as a people, and the way that
[54:37] Speaker 2: we perhaps spark positive change is you know, have an
[54:42] Speaker 2: open mind. A lot of people who voted for Donald
[54:45] Speaker 2: Trump had their reasons, and I think there's always the
[54:50] Speaker 2: danger in judging people. And I urge people to try
[54:57] Speaker 2: and understand each other, to really let and you don't
[55:00] Speaker 2: have to agree, just listen, hear each other out. That
[55:04] Speaker 2: will help. We don't have to fight, but we I
[55:07] Speaker 2: think not talking is just as bad as fighting.
[55:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I understand that everyone has their
[55:15] Speaker 1: own experiences and their own thresholds, but I will say,
[55:19] Speaker 1: I've got an old friend. We don't see eye to eye.
[55:23] Speaker 1: We've taken breaks over some of the knockdown drag outs
[55:27] Speaker 1: we've had over where we don't see eye to eye.
[55:29] Speaker 1: And when a lot of people said like, let it go,
[55:33] Speaker 1: just let it go, I said, I don't if I
[55:36] Speaker 1: give up on someone I've known for twenty years, how
[55:39] Speaker 1: I'm ever going to get along with a stranger.
[55:41] Speaker 2: You know exactly? Yes, don't give up on each other.
[55:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, And I said it to her, and we've done
[55:46] Speaker 1: a lot of work and it's been really formative for
[55:51] Speaker 1: us both, and recently she has said some things that
[55:57] Speaker 1: have meant the world to me and really made me say, like,
[56:02] Speaker 1: this is why I didn't want to give up. And
[56:05] Speaker 1: I think, at your own pace, in your own time,
[56:09] Speaker 1: But the only way we're going to get through this
[56:12] Speaker 1: is if we start to remember that what goes on
[56:15] Speaker 1: in your house doesn't have to go on in your
[56:17] Speaker 1: neighbor's house, but your neighbors and you better start.
[56:19] Speaker 6: Acting like it.
[56:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm curious for you.
[56:24] Speaker 1: You know, it's a big year, and I know it's
[56:27] Speaker 1: an enormous sort of world and timeline to look out
[56:32] Speaker 1: on for all of us, certainly, but especially for you
[56:35] Speaker 1: as a journalist. So it doesn't have to be professional.
[56:39] Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about a lot of that, but
[56:42] Speaker 1: maybe it is. I just wonder, as you look to
[56:45] Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, what for you, professional or personal, feels
[56:50] Speaker 1: like your work in progress.
[56:52] Speaker 2: Oh, that would hands down be the thirty fifty summit
[56:56] Speaker 2: in Abu Dhabi on International Women's Day. It's so it's
[57:01] Speaker 2: so cool. This summit is absolutely remarkable. On every year
[57:08] Speaker 2: it gets, it enriches and it becomes more multi dimensional,
[57:13] Speaker 2: and I am blown away by it. I literally just
[57:19] Speaker 2: find myself at a loss, gasping, at a loss of
[57:22] Speaker 2: words when it comes to the energy, the feedback and
[57:28] Speaker 2: the value that women from around the world are getting
[57:33] Speaker 2: out of this event. And this is the partnership I
[57:36] Speaker 2: have with Forbes and my platform Know Your Value. We
[57:40] Speaker 2: start in New York celebrating the fifty over fifty honorees
[57:44] Speaker 2: from the United States, but then the thirty fifty summit
[57:47] Speaker 2: in Abu Dhabi every International Women's Day. It's a three
[57:50] Speaker 2: day event, three and a half day event, and it's
[57:54] Speaker 2: in our fifth year. It is a cross cultural, multi
[57:58] Speaker 2: generational mentoring summit and we had women from forty nine
[58:03] Speaker 2: countries last year. Every year it grows. We have the
[58:06] Speaker 2: most incredible connections made, the most incredible messages and lessons
[58:12] Speaker 2: that we teach women in the region and women from
[58:15] Speaker 2: around the world, and we share ideas and experiences and
[58:18] Speaker 2: we invest in one another. And I have found that
[58:23] Speaker 2: every year there are several blow my mind stories of
[58:28] Speaker 2: what happens there. Whether it's it's Billy Jean King, Glorious
[58:32] Speaker 2: dynam Hillary Clinton, and Olenna Zelenska on stage together talking
[58:37] Speaker 2: about soft and hard power in women in the world,
[58:41] Speaker 2: or it's two women who I gave just by surprise
[58:47] Speaker 2: free tickets on the Kellig Larkson's show with certain eyeglass
[58:52] Speaker 2: company who started Vontel Eyewear, and they brought their selfie
[58:57] Speaker 2: sticks and were dancing on stage at the Louver in
[59:01] Speaker 2: Abu Dhabi, and they are telling me that they just
[59:05] Speaker 2: got a major investment because of who they met at
[59:07] Speaker 2: the summit at one of the networking sessions. And I'll
[59:11] Speaker 2: end by saying I knew I was onto something two
[59:16] Speaker 2: events ago where I was in the elevator and there
[59:19] Speaker 2: was like a twenty two year old young woman in
[59:22] Speaker 2: the elevator and she was like, this elevator has to
[59:24] Speaker 2: go faster. And I was like, are you okay. She's like,
[59:27] Speaker 2: I just I have to get to networking. I have
[59:29] Speaker 2: to get to the networking session. And I'm thinking, oh
[59:33] Speaker 2: my god, that's amazing, because networking is like a bad word,
[59:36] Speaker 2: like nobody wants to go to a networking thing. And
[59:40] Speaker 2: she was like, I have to be there. But the
[59:42] Speaker 2: networking is amazing and it's fun, and it's like very
[59:47] Speaker 2: the payoff is incredible. Everybody walks away, if not with
[59:51] Speaker 2: like an actual job or an investment, with like such
[59:55] Speaker 2: an incredible new lease on their life as to how
[59:57] Speaker 2: they're going to drive forward. So I'm always working toward that.
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: That is my sort of work in progress. Every year.
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: I want to build it, not necessarily bigger, but deeper
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: and more valuable and more special and add more value
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: for the region where we visit and bring together this
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: incredible collection of ideas, voices, shapes, sizes, ages.
[1:00:28] Speaker 1: I love that it's beautiful. That's what we need more
[1:00:30] Speaker 1: of in the world for sure. I just I'm ready
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: for the women to be in charge of everything. So
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: tell me where you tell me where and win to be.
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: I'm in You should come again. I want you there. Well.
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you for taking your time today.
[1:00:45] Speaker 1: I just adore you, and I really appreciate all of
[1:00:49] Speaker 1: your thoughts and insight and everything that you're doing for
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: us out there in the world.
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it.

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