# One More Thing with Kal Penn

An episode of [Drama Queens](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1571792783), 15 Oct 2026, 12 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/e53aefd3-699f-4685-9a84-aed700f383fa/f7314397-8caa-4593-b2f6-b4e300748a7c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=cf2e6477-1a1d-4442-8b33-ae320005bb63

In a moment when politics can feel like an endless culture war, Kal Penn makes the case for focusing on what actually changes people’s lives. Drawing on his time inside the Obama White House and his perspective from outside it, Kal reveals why outrage distracts from real problems, and how we can collectively confront the issues that matter most. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
[0:15] Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress. We have a special bonus
[0:19] Speaker 1: episode for you all. Listen, friends, I know it's very
[0:22] Speaker 1: easy right now to believe American politics is one endless
[0:25] Speaker 1: argument about the latest outrage. The volume is high, the
[0:29] Speaker 1: culture wars are everywhere, and sometimes it feels like we
[0:33] Speaker 1: are spending all of our energy fighting about every reckless
[0:37] Speaker 1: move of this insane administration instead of asking what actually
[0:42] Speaker 1: makes people's lives better. So when I spoke with Cal Penn,
[0:46] Speaker 1: I was especially moved by his perspective on this issue.
[0:50] Speaker 1: Because many people know Cal as an actor, a writer,
[0:53] Speaker 1: a comedian, I mean, hello, who didn't love Harold and
[0:56] Speaker 1: Kumar go to White Castle. He's a genius. But after
[1:00] Speaker 1: years of political and campaign volunteering, Cal stepped away from
[1:06] Speaker 1: a supercharged Hollywood career and accepted a job inside the
[1:11] Speaker 1: Obama White House. His journey has given him such a
[1:15] Speaker 1: rare understanding of the difference between political noise and the
[1:20] Speaker 1: work that actually changes people's lives. What Cal says here
[1:25] Speaker 1: feels like a really important reminder that underneath all of
[1:29] Speaker 1: that noise, there is still real work to do and
[1:34] Speaker 1: we can do it together. Sure, we can disagree, we
[1:37] Speaker 1: can argue, but we have to show up with each other.
[1:42] Speaker 1: We have to pay attention and we've got to use
[1:46] Speaker 1: our voices. So as we head toward the midterms, please
[1:50] Speaker 1: make a plan to vote. Check your registration. You can
[1:54] Speaker 1: visit When We All Vote. You can visit I Am
[1:57] Speaker 1: A Voter. Make sure you know your deadlines. And if
[2:00] Speaker 1: early voting has already started where you live, don't wait.
[2:04] Speaker 1: There is so much on the line in this election.
[2:07] Speaker 1: So let this be your reminder to think about who
[2:10] Speaker 1: benefits the most when we're distracted and fighting with their neighbors. Hint, hint,
[2:16] Speaker 1: it's not us. We've got a better way. Let's talk
[2:20] Speaker 1: about it with Cal Penn. You know, I'm curious because you,
[2:27] Speaker 1: to your point, you've really seen politics from the inside,
[2:30] Speaker 1: literally inside the White House and outside as an actor
[2:35] Speaker 1: and a commentator. And obviously things have really gone off
[2:39] Speaker 1: the rails because we've given of, you know, elementary school.
[2:44] Speaker 1: maybe even a preschool-minded bully, the reins of things. I
[2:49] Speaker 1: guess I wonder, you know, what do you think about
[2:53] Speaker 1: the system of it? Like, how do you think we
[2:56] Speaker 1: get voters out of this kind of cage match of
[2:59] Speaker 1: identity-based ideology and back to realizing that they're actually safer
[3:04] Speaker 1: if their neighbors are safe too? Like, do you think
[3:07] Speaker 1: we get this train back on the tracks?
[3:10] Speaker 2: I hope so. And I certainly have faith that we do.
[3:12] Speaker 2: I think, you know, the for all the cynicism that
[3:16] Speaker 2: I think we all feel these days, uh, I often
[3:20] Speaker 2: get the question, you know, look, I only spent two, well,
[3:23] Speaker 2: only or not only, however you view it, I spent
[3:25] Speaker 2: two and a half years in the White House. Uh,
[3:28] Speaker 2: I am primarily an actor. That's what I do. I
[3:30] Speaker 2: don't foresee going back into the political world in that, in,
[3:34] Speaker 2: in that same way, kind of a thing. But, um,
[3:37] Speaker 2: the one thing that I saw that really kind of
[3:38] Speaker 2: moved me and continues to move me is the number
[3:41] Speaker 2: of things, the number of good things that I saw
[3:43] Speaker 2: happen because people raised their voices. And a lot of
[3:48] Speaker 2: those things aren't salacious enough to make the news. Right. Um,
[3:52] Speaker 2: and this is everything from parts of healthcare coverage to, um,
[3:58] Speaker 2: you know, small, I mean, we're regressing on a lot
[4:00] Speaker 2: of this stuff now, obviously, but, uh, federal rules on
[4:03] Speaker 2: things that do affect us, but are too kind of
[4:06] Speaker 2: the mishigas of too in the weeds to ever, ever
[4:09] Speaker 2: be an interesting article, even on an NPR. Those are
[4:13] Speaker 2: all real things and good things could happen from that.
[4:16] Speaker 2: And the reason I say the cynicism is, you know,
[4:19] Speaker 2: whether you're looking at ethics rules or human rights rules or, or,
[4:23] Speaker 2: or the things that we're willing to stand up for,
[4:27] Speaker 2: there are a lot of parallels and a lot of
[4:29] Speaker 2: disappointments in both the Trump and Biden, I think for
[4:33] Speaker 2: somebody who's a little farther to the left of the
[4:36] Speaker 2: mainstream Democratic Party, which I obviously am. And I remember
[4:40] Speaker 2: it was things like, I don't think any of us
[4:42] Speaker 2: thought that the Trump administration would hold the same ethics
[4:46] Speaker 2: rules as the Obama administration, but it was shocking to
[4:49] Speaker 2: see the Biden administration keep some of Trump's lack of
[4:54] Speaker 2: ethics rules or keep a lot of the awful things
[4:58] Speaker 2: that we were doing on Cuba or on Palestine. And
[5:02] Speaker 2: so it was tough, I think, when the needle was
[5:05] Speaker 2: moving backwards, even for the people in our, you know,
[5:09] Speaker 2: the large tent on the left and the friends that
[5:13] Speaker 2: we do have who we agree with on 80% of things.
[5:16] Speaker 2: But those other 20% of things were a real tough
[5:20] Speaker 2: thing to get past. And I think that's where the
[5:23] Speaker 2: challenge is for a lot of people, you look at
[5:27] Speaker 2: democratic politics, it's very interesting to me right now if
[5:31] Speaker 2: you just put on the nerd hat, right?
[5:34] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[5:35] Speaker 2: I live in New York City. I think we've got
[5:38] Speaker 2: a great mayor. I'm heavily biased. I've known him since
[5:41] Speaker 2: he was a kid, so take that for what it's worth.
[5:43] Speaker 2: But the running on ideas is a thing that you're
[5:48] Speaker 2: seeing now, frankly, in both parties. There are people on
[5:51] Speaker 2: the far right who are pushing ideas that We all
[5:54] Speaker 2: find abhorrent. Those of us on the left find abhorrent.
[5:58] Speaker 2: And they're winning at it. Just like the only people
[6:02] Speaker 2: on the left who I see winning at anything are
[6:05] Speaker 2: these DSA or DSA bordering candidates because they're acknowledging the
[6:10] Speaker 2: same things that helped Trump win, but with a solution
[6:13] Speaker 2: for friends on the left. So how to reduce the
[6:16] Speaker 2: cost of living, how to make groceries cheaper, etc. you know,
[6:20] Speaker 2: funding things like public transit, standing up for human rights
[6:23] Speaker 2: around the world, making sure that your city feels inclusive,
[6:26] Speaker 2: no matter what your background is or where you're from
[6:28] Speaker 2: in New York. I have felt that that's created more
[6:32] Speaker 2: of a dialogue, even with people that I disagree with.
[6:34] Speaker 1: I agree with the way.
[6:36] Speaker 2: That feels healthy. I understand that not everybody will agree
[6:40] Speaker 2: with what I'm saying. And for some, it doesn't feel
[6:42] Speaker 2: that way, but from my perspective, it does. And I'm,
[6:44] Speaker 2: I just hope that there's a way to do that, um,
[6:48] Speaker 2: Beyond that, I remain hopeful that that's possible. But the
[6:51] Speaker 2: thing that scares me the most is, you know, you'd
[6:56] Speaker 2: mentioned like, okay, the feelings about Trump and he's the
[6:59] Speaker 2: reason all of this is happening. He couldn't do what
[7:02] Speaker 2: he's doing without half the country. I mean, maybe 38%
[7:05] Speaker 2: of the country, but certainly... more than half of the
[7:08] Speaker 2: elected members of Congress right now.
[7:09] Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was going to say. He couldn't
[7:11] Speaker 1: do what he's doing without having control over all three branches.
[7:14] Speaker 1: It's really the issue here.
[7:15] Speaker 2: And so that's the thing that I think even, uh,
[7:18] Speaker 2: even if he or JD Vance are not the next, uh,
[7:23] Speaker 2: I mean, he's obviously can't run again, but, um, it's
[7:26] Speaker 2: not about him. It's about how the conditions have been
[7:29] Speaker 2: created that otherwise good people can still support this because
[7:34] Speaker 2: they think they have been convinced that That the challenges
[7:37] Speaker 2: that we all have in terms of gas prices being
[7:39] Speaker 2: so high are somehow because of trans people and immigrants. Like, however,
[7:43] Speaker 2: that narrative was craftily put into people's minds.
[7:47] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[7:47] Speaker 2: Understanding that that's false, I think, is up to all
[7:50] Speaker 2: of us. And we're not going to get it done
[7:53] Speaker 2: by yelling and screaming, I think.
[7:54] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[7:55] Speaker 2: It's very difficult to get it done by having a
[7:57] Speaker 2: rational conversation. I'm really proud that we seem to be
[8:00] Speaker 2: getting it done by electing people on the far left
[8:04] Speaker 2: who seem to have so far been delivering real results.
[8:08] Speaker 1: I agree.
[8:08] Speaker 2: And I hope that the mainstream party kind of follows suit.
[8:11] Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really
[8:14] Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. I think it's
[8:23] Speaker 1: also really important to help people recalibrate. You know, the
[8:28] Speaker 1: far right has figured out, you know, first they lost
[8:32] Speaker 1: on segregation, you know, back in the late sixties and seventies.
[8:36] Speaker 1: And once they lost all those appeals, they decided to
[8:38] Speaker 1: move on to abortion, you know, six years after Roe
[8:41] Speaker 1: was settled, by the way, they didn't give a shit
[8:43] Speaker 1: about that. And, you know, when, when attacking women got unpopular,
[8:46] Speaker 1: they attacked gay people. And when attacking gay people got unpopular,
[8:50] Speaker 1: they went, they moved on to trans people. And I
[8:52] Speaker 1: think it allows for that kind of boogeyman, uh, lie
[8:57] Speaker 1: to work simply because just statistically there are so few
[9:01] Speaker 1: in comparison to, you know, the American population. One of
[9:05] Speaker 1: the things that I've seen kind of wake some people
[9:07] Speaker 1: up even in the last week is being like, Hey,
[9:10] Speaker 1: there are more rapists in the Cornell seven than there
[9:14] Speaker 1: are trans athletes in the entire NCAA.
[9:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[9:17] Speaker 1: So like you're focusing on the wrong group of people
[9:19] Speaker 1: here and it makes me crazy, but I hope that it,
[9:24] Speaker 1: I hope that it does wake people up because to
[9:26] Speaker 1: your point, if we're not getting bamboozled by who we're
[9:30] Speaker 1: supposed to be afraid of, we can actually focus on
[9:32] Speaker 1: things like quality of life in the economy, healthcare, gas prices,
[9:37] Speaker 1: food safety, like the stuff that we're just supposed to
[9:40] Speaker 1: be able to live in and around without thinking about
[9:43] Speaker 1: all day. And so my desire for really everybody, regardless
[9:49] Speaker 1: of what side they come from, is to realize that
[9:52] Speaker 1: your feelings aren't facts, but the facts prove that this
[9:56] Speaker 1: this current set of policies ain't working and, and policies
[10:00] Speaker 1: from before worked better, but they still weren't that great
[10:03] Speaker 1: for most people. And that's what we have to solve,
[10:06] Speaker 1: you know, and, and then perhaps, um, the culture war
[10:10] Speaker 1: stuff won't work as well because I can have that
[10:13] Speaker 1: war all day. But I also know to your point,
[10:15] Speaker 1: it's not necessarily, um, going to be the thing that
[10:18] Speaker 1: you're going to move people on. So let's figure out
[10:20] Speaker 1: where they're movable and then let's figure out how to
[10:22] Speaker 1: solve problems.
[10:23] Speaker 2: Totally. A hundred percent.
[10:24] Speaker 1: Which is kind of tough. It's hard for me sometimes
[10:27] Speaker 1: to be like, well, focus on gas. And I'm like,
[10:30] Speaker 1: you know what? I'll get them how I get them.
[10:32] Speaker 1: You tell me where to go. It's like, it's the
[10:34] Speaker 1: reason that in, in the early Obama days, they were like,
[10:36] Speaker 1: can we send you to Texas? I was like, yup.
[10:39] Speaker 1: Send me.
[10:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[10:40] Speaker 1: Happy to go.
[10:41] Speaker 2: It's tricky. I always, I do have to catch myself
[10:44] Speaker 2: when I recognize that I'm being sucked into a fabricated
[10:48] Speaker 2: culture war debate even if i'm there to defend the
[10:51] Speaker 2: right thing and like yes sometimes not defending that thing
[10:55] Speaker 2: will allow it to just fizzle away because it's not
[10:58] Speaker 2: actually a real thing like if i open my mouth
[11:02] Speaker 2: then probably this will just continue to fuel the clicks
[11:05] Speaker 2: that somebody's getting on their you know on their monetizable
[11:09] Speaker 2: account as opposed to if i actually cared this much
[11:12] Speaker 2: maybe i'll sign up and do a phone bank for
[11:15] Speaker 2: a candidate who's doing something real about it. You know,
[11:17] Speaker 2: I always have to like catch myself on that.
[11:19] Speaker 1: I really like that.
[11:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

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