# Sarah Shahi - Part 1

An episode of [Drama Queens](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1571792783), 18 Feb 2026, 1 h 00 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/e53aefd3-699f-4685-9a84-aed700f383fa/2b45f579-ec33-426f-9a68-b3f500711cca/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=cf2e6477-1a1d-4442-8b33-ae320005bb63

Sarah Shahi has spent years playing fearless, complicated women — but now, anticipation builds for the highly awaited premiere of Paradise Season 2, Sarah is telling her own story. From the cultural roots that shaped her to the public heartbreak that forced a reinvention, Sarah gets candid about desire, motherhood, ambition, and what it really takes to stop shrinking. With her new book Life Is Lifey, she’s done playing it safe. This one is raw, revealing, and definitely spicy. Get your copy of "Life Is Lifey: The A to Z's of Navigating Life's Messy Middle" here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey Whipsmarties,
[0:16] Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. Today we are going to
[0:19] Speaker 1: interview an author whose book I adore, who you probably
[0:24] Speaker 1: know because she also happens to be an incredibly accomplished
[0:28] Speaker 1: actress with a fascinating story. Sarah Shahe is here today,
[0:33] Speaker 1: and she is not known for playing it safe. She
[0:36] Speaker 1: is an actor, an author, a former NFL cheerleader. She
[0:39] Speaker 1: studied opera. She has built a career pushing boundaries. She
[0:44] Speaker 1: gravitates towards characters who hold power and vulnerability, like the
[0:49] Speaker 1: incredible woman she played on Sex Life, her character in
[0:53] Speaker 1: the hit political murder mystery Paradise, which is coming back
[0:56] Speaker 1: for season two on February twenty third. She's also managing
[0:59] Speaker 1: to find the time to film the sequel to Red
[1:02] Speaker 1: White and Royal Blue, and is publishing her first book,
[1:06] Speaker 1: Life Is Lifey that offers an unfiltered and laugh out
[1:11] Speaker 1: loud reflection on resilience, womanhood, sex power, and the messy
[1:16] Speaker 1: middle where real growth happens.
[1:20] Speaker 2: Let's dive in with Sarah Shahi.
[1:34] Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, beautiful, how are you.
[1:39] Speaker 2: I'm so good. I've been thinking about you.
[1:41] Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here, and I'm like, God, we
[1:43] Speaker 1: have been trying to hang out since we saw each
[1:45] Speaker 1: other at the airport.
[1:46] Speaker 3: I know, that's so crazy. I feel like you have
[1:49] Speaker 3: lived nine lives since then, and I have two. So
[1:54] Speaker 3: this catchup will probably cover a lot of things.
[1:57] Speaker 2: I love it.
[1:58] Speaker 3: Are you home in la I am? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[2:01] Speaker 3: I just got back a couple of days ago. Where
[2:05] Speaker 3: were you? I was all over I was in London
[2:08] Speaker 3: doing a movie, and then I went to and then
[2:12] Speaker 3: I just I was on book tour. So then we
[2:14] Speaker 3: were in London, New York, Nashville, Miami, Austin, and then yeah,
[2:19] Speaker 3: I just got back a couple of days ago. Wow, Yeah,
[2:22] Speaker 3: it was cool.
[2:23] Speaker 2: You're trying to figure out what time zone you're into,
[2:27] Speaker 2: the amount.
[2:27] Speaker 3: Of times I wake up in the morning this last week,
[2:30] Speaker 3: and I'm like where am I? Like, which hotel, what state,
[2:34] Speaker 3: what time? Like, where is this? Yeah? But yeah, no,
[2:37] Speaker 3: it's just you know, it's like I had a partner
[2:40] Speaker 3: one time who didn't understand that. Like it's it's not
[2:46] Speaker 3: being ungrateful to say like I'm tired or venting about
[2:51] Speaker 3: a really hard schedule, Like I am equally grateful, like
[2:55] Speaker 3: I'm allowed to say I'm looking tired and still love
[3:00] Speaker 3: what I do. At the same time, it doesn't mean
[3:02] Speaker 3: I'm not grateful, you know what I mean. So it's like,
[3:04] Speaker 3: and I thought about that often on like this time
[3:08] Speaker 3: in my life, because I'm like, how lucky am I
[3:10] Speaker 3: that I get to be tired from doing something that
[3:13] Speaker 3: I love so much and something that I created, you know? So?
[3:17] Speaker 3: But yeah, but no, I definitely need a vacation. Girl,
[3:20] Speaker 3: I need a vacation.
[3:21] Speaker 2: Oh honey, I feel you.
[3:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, really interesting.
[3:24] Speaker 2: I've thought a lot about that.
[3:25] Speaker 1: Friend of mine likewise said to me once, everybody complains
[3:29] Speaker 1: about their job.
[3:30] Speaker 4: And just because other people think your.
[3:32] Speaker 1: Job is fancy, yeah, it does not mean your job
[3:36] Speaker 1: is not really hard.
[3:38] Speaker 3: It's all relative, isn't it.
[3:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, And she was like, it's okay for you to
[3:42] Speaker 2: say this is hard.
[3:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a human. You're not a robot, you're not
[3:47] Speaker 1: an avatar. And it really reminded me. I was like, oh, right, Like,
[3:52] Speaker 1: you know, a CEO who makes forty times what I
[3:56] Speaker 1: make a year is complaining about his job too, So
[4:00] Speaker 1: I'm allowed to have hard days and then be like, wow,
[4:02] Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm so lucky that this is my job.
[4:04] Speaker 3: It's both exactly exactly you can carry both at the
[4:07] Speaker 3: same time.
[4:08] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[4:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, one of the things I just am obsessed
[4:11] Speaker 1: with you about, I mean, aside from like personally but professionally, is.
[4:16] Speaker 2: The way you do your job and you and you
[4:18] Speaker 2: do all of.
[4:20] Speaker 1: It, and you do it with grace and you do
[4:22] Speaker 1: it with fire, and you are one of those people
[4:25] Speaker 1: that I observe as being completely.
[4:29] Speaker 2: Not to say that you don't carry fear.
[4:31] Speaker 1: It's like you're just not intimidated enough by what you
[4:35] Speaker 1: want to do that you don't do it.
[4:37] Speaker 3: Are you talking about on screen or are you talking
[4:40] Speaker 3: about all.
[4:40] Speaker 4: Of it in every way?
[4:43] Speaker 1: Like your job's on screen, life choice is this book
[4:46] Speaker 1: you've written.
[4:47] Speaker 2: Like all of it?
[4:48] Speaker 1: And I you're just consistently one of the women I
[4:51] Speaker 1: think about when I think about brave women, when I'm trying.
[4:54] Speaker 2: To encourage yourself to be brave.
[4:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it.
[4:59] Speaker 1: And I I know, we like jumped right in because
[5:02] Speaker 1: I'm so happy to tell you, but like, yeah, one
[5:04] Speaker 1: of the things.
[5:05] Speaker 4: I normally ask people right when we start is if.
[5:07] Speaker 1: You see yourself, versions of yourself, traits in yourself in
[5:14] Speaker 1: younger you like if you got to interact with Sarah
[5:18] Speaker 1: at eight or nine years old, like, would you be
[5:22] Speaker 1: interacting with a brave little girl?
[5:25] Speaker 2: Or is that something you've had to learn through your life.
[5:28] Speaker 3: It's something I've really had to learn, you know, and
[5:31] Speaker 3: I think it's it's interesting because I think one of
[5:34] Speaker 3: the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life is
[5:37] Speaker 3: when people say, oh, don't be afraid or you know,
[5:41] Speaker 3: that's not that scary, because everyone's fear factor is different, right,
[5:45] Speaker 3: And it's something that I talk about in the book
[5:48] Speaker 3: and what I had to learn. You know, I had
[5:50] Speaker 3: a very interesting upbringing. My mom is incredible, Like I
[5:54] Speaker 3: have had an abusive father. I talked about this in
[5:58] Speaker 3: the book. He held a gun to my head and
[6:00] Speaker 3: I were in and out of women's shelters at one
[6:01] Speaker 3: point in my life. And she really and she she
[6:08] Speaker 3: was always able to take a situation like even that.
[6:10] Speaker 3: I remember one time she woke me up in the
[6:12] Speaker 3: middle of the night. I was probably about five or
[6:14] Speaker 3: six years old, and she was like, are you ready?
[6:16] Speaker 3: Are you ready to go on like a really fun
[6:18] Speaker 3: adventure and we're going to go on a sleepover. You know.
[6:20] Speaker 3: It wasn't this like panic right, And so I feel
[6:26] Speaker 3: like my outlook, which I have noticed is uh not
[6:30] Speaker 3: the norm for most people. My outlook happens to be
[6:34] Speaker 3: very glass, more glass half full than half empty. And
[6:38] Speaker 3: that was something that I learned from a young age.
[6:41] Speaker 3: But courage is something that, like we have to actively
[6:44] Speaker 3: practice because the way our brains are wired, our brains
[6:48] Speaker 3: are wired for fight or flight. We're wired for survival.
[6:52] Speaker 3: So if there's a situation that feels scary to us,
[6:55] Speaker 3: obviously our natural instinct is to retreat or to not
[6:58] Speaker 3: go forward, which is I you know, if we just
[7:01] Speaker 3: take it back to relationships or any type of dynamic
[7:06] Speaker 3: in life, we would rather choose a familiar hell than
[7:10] Speaker 3: an unfamiliar mystery potentially. But I have always thought that
[7:19] Speaker 3: not having fear is stupid, because it's a very natural
[7:23] Speaker 3: thing to have. But I also have learned to have
[7:26] Speaker 3: a relationship with my fear or my nerves, and I've
[7:29] Speaker 3: been able to look at it and say, Okay, I'm
[7:32] Speaker 3: going to take you in and I'm going to see
[7:35] Speaker 3: what you're trying to teach me, and I'm going to
[7:36] Speaker 3: walk with you anyway, and we're going to go through
[7:38] Speaker 3: this thing that's really scary. So, yeah, that's just how
[7:42] Speaker 3: I've always and in terms of that, that's something I've
[7:46] Speaker 3: had to learn as I've gotten older and as life
[7:49] Speaker 3: has gotten trickier and having children and you know, standing
[7:53] Speaker 3: up to people and really using your voice. Yeah, that
[7:58] Speaker 3: was something I had to learn later in life.
[8:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because you know, talk about the
[8:04] Speaker 1: mark of a healed person, right, you can talk about something.
[8:09] Speaker 2: Really extreme in a way that is.
[8:11] Speaker 1: Like talking about the weather, like the experiences you had
[8:14] Speaker 1: as a kid, what you were dealing with with with
[8:17] Speaker 1: a really abusive parent. Like, Yeah, and one of the
[8:20] Speaker 1: things I've had to do on my own journey to
[8:23] Speaker 1: figure out my own is God. Like, Oh, there were
[8:27] Speaker 1: things I learned. There were experiences I had that felt
[8:31] Speaker 1: normal to me that were not so my scale of
[8:35] Speaker 1: like what's really bad or scary, what deserves fear versus
[8:40] Speaker 1: like what joy should look like? Was really out of whack.
[8:44] Speaker 1: Do you feel like you had to recalibrate where your
[8:49] Speaker 1: fear lived, like to get out of that fight or flight,
[8:52] Speaker 1: to get out of that early childhood trauma or do
[8:56] Speaker 1: you think your mom's bravery.
[8:59] Speaker 2: Her ability to like have you hold you.
[9:04] Speaker 1: Take care of you, no matter how hard the circumstances
[9:06] Speaker 1: got Like did she become your sort of marker for
[9:11] Speaker 1: a version of normalcy or like healthy safety or did
[9:16] Speaker 1: you two have to rejigger.
[9:20] Speaker 2: That in a way together as you got out of
[9:22] Speaker 2: that situation.
[9:24] Speaker 3: Well that's interesting because yes and no, you know what
[9:29] Speaker 3: my mom was able to model for me was you know,
[9:34] Speaker 3: especially after she and my father split, our life was chaotic,
[9:39] Speaker 3: but there was no tension, there was no friction, and
[9:43] Speaker 3: so it was nice to be able to experience that
[9:45] Speaker 3: type of peace. But then what I also what the
[9:49] Speaker 3: other side to that point is that as an adult
[9:53] Speaker 3: at learning how to be in dynamics with again, whether
[9:58] Speaker 3: it's work relationship, whether it's romantic relationships, I came from
[10:03] Speaker 3: a lot of abandonment issues, right Like I really feel like,
[10:07] Speaker 3: you know, as adults, we enter different chapters of our
[10:11] Speaker 3: life based on the last chapter we were in. And
[10:15] Speaker 3: for me, it took me a long time to be
[10:17] Speaker 3: able to and it's something I'm still working on to
[10:19] Speaker 3: be able to recognize or pinpoint when I'm acting from
[10:24] Speaker 3: that little girl place who just wants to be chosen
[10:27] Speaker 3: by her father, or when I'm being a confident woman
[10:30] Speaker 3: who's using her voice in a very mature, responsible, highly
[10:35] Speaker 3: emotionally intelligent way.
[10:38] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, something you write about in the book.
[10:41] Speaker 1: And it's funny because I want to ask you questions
[10:43] Speaker 1: for the listeners who haven't read it, and then also
[10:45] Speaker 1: spoil it for the people who haven't read it. So
[10:47] Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, is this what film reviewers feel like?
[10:50] Speaker 2: Like, Oh, but you talk about you know, you have
[10:54] Speaker 2: this chapter on courage.
[10:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, on choosing to leave a reallyationship, a life that
[11:01] Speaker 1: looked perfect from the outside.
[11:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to have a bottle of wine about this.
[11:08] Speaker 3: But the.
[11:11] Speaker 1: Really interesting thing that you're just talking about with your
[11:14] Speaker 1: childhood makes me think about that moment in adulthood, like
[11:19] Speaker 1: when you grow up in abandonment, when you grow up
[11:22] Speaker 1: wanting to fix a wound, wanting to have the great
[11:25] Speaker 1: version of the relationship that your parents didn't do.
[11:29] Speaker 2: Do you feel like, in addition to.
[11:33] Speaker 1: Becoming what I think so many of us do as
[11:35] Speaker 1: women is people pleasing people pleasers?
[11:37] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[11:38] Speaker 2: I love the way you talk about it in the book. Again,
[11:42] Speaker 2: do you think it.
[11:43] Speaker 1: Also is the kind of thing where you look back
[11:45] Speaker 1: and you go, oh, I see, I see why I
[11:47] Speaker 1: overstayed that And in this relationship because I wanted to
[11:52] Speaker 1: make it work because failing meant it was like the
[11:55] Speaker 1: bad thing I grew up around.
[11:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think it's it's that what you
[12:02] Speaker 3: just said. And because I think you know so, and
[12:06] Speaker 3: this isn't this doesn't even I'm very woo woo, right,
[12:10] Speaker 3: you know, I'm one step away from walking around barefoot everywhere, like,
[12:14] Speaker 3: but this is not even woo woo as much as
[12:16] Speaker 3: it is science. What happens with our brain is we
[12:20] Speaker 3: have a relationship where we have a behavior or a
[12:23] Speaker 3: pattern and our brain, the neurons in our brain are
[12:26] Speaker 3: used to firing in a certain direction. So when you're
[12:29] Speaker 3: a child of abandonment, you're constantly wanting to be picked.
[12:32] Speaker 3: You're constantly wanting to prove your worth. So, at least
[12:38] Speaker 3: for me speaking, if my dad stayed, like my dad
[12:42] Speaker 3: was very in and out. Sometimes he was there, sometimes
[12:44] Speaker 3: he wasn't there, And as a child you always associate.
[12:48] Speaker 3: You're like, oh, I'm the reason he left, So if
[12:51] Speaker 3: I can be good enough the next time he comes around,
[12:55] Speaker 3: then he'll stay. Well. I remember, like I used to
[12:59] Speaker 3: be like a cat, like purring in between his legs
[13:02] Speaker 3: as a little girl, hoping that he wouldn't leave. So
[13:06] Speaker 3: what that started forming in my brain was this behavior
[13:11] Speaker 3: or this pattern that in order for a man to
[13:15] Speaker 3: UH want me, I have to prove my worth. I
[13:19] Speaker 3: have to prove my value and I need him to
[13:22] Speaker 3: pick me. So that absolutely played out in my relationship
[13:29] Speaker 3: dynamics when there were situations that I probably should have
[13:33] Speaker 3: exited way before I did because I had this built
[13:37] Speaker 3: in pattern that my brain was like, no, no, you
[13:41] Speaker 3: need to You need to fulfill this pattern from childhood. Remember,
[13:45] Speaker 3: like you need to be chosen, he needs to pick you.
[13:47] Speaker 3: You need to prove your worth. So but but you know, Sophia,
[13:51] Speaker 3: I also so yes to all of that, but then
[13:54] Speaker 3: I take it one step further, which is like, I
[13:57] Speaker 3: also believe that we attract situations to us in order
[14:00] Speaker 3: to serve our highest growth and to help our healing.
[14:04] Speaker 3: And every situation that I was in, every UH I was,
[14:10] Speaker 3: I don't think I was. I would have been able
[14:12] Speaker 3: to exit a minute sooner than I had because I
[14:16] Speaker 3: needed to stay in order to serve my highest growth.
[14:19] Speaker 3: And I, like, you know, one of my favorite quotes ever,
[14:23] Speaker 3: I'm a walking bumper sticker. As you know, the book
[14:25] Speaker 3: is like full of quotes like I love I love quotes, right,
[14:29] Speaker 3: I like to speak in quotes. But it's like God
[14:32] Speaker 3: never puts the stars in the wrong place. So trust
[14:35] Speaker 3: the timing of your life. In every situation that I
[14:39] Speaker 3: was in where I added more stress to myself with's
[14:42] Speaker 3: like oh do I speak up tonight after dinner? Or
[14:45] Speaker 3: should I wait till tomorrow morning? You know, or like whatever,
[14:48] Speaker 3: It's like it didn't matter because when you let it go,
[14:51] Speaker 3: when you let everything go, and you're like, you know what,
[14:54] Speaker 3: Like this is another philosophy I talk about in the
[14:56] Speaker 3: book You Follow Your Happy. So you know, I'm covering
[15:01] Speaker 3: so many subjects here, but they're all kind of like
[15:03] Speaker 3: interconnected somehow. But it's like I you know, as people,
[15:07] Speaker 3: we are used to, you know, our egos want to
[15:10] Speaker 3: figure things out. We want to know what are we
[15:13] Speaker 3: doing tonight? What is what does tomorrow look like? Like?
[15:17] Speaker 3: The mystery feels very uncomfortable for us because when we
[15:19] Speaker 3: know things, we feel safe. We spend so much time
[15:23] Speaker 3: trying to figure things out. We spend so much time
[15:27] Speaker 3: trying to solve the equation in our head. And how
[15:31] Speaker 3: do I get this person to react like this? And
[15:33] Speaker 3: what happens if I do this, and should I speak
[15:35] Speaker 3: up now or should I speak up later? And we
[15:37] Speaker 3: just put a lot of energy into the uh I
[15:41] Speaker 3: don't know in figuring it out phase when my point
[15:45] Speaker 3: is it's like it's not worth it. Like what instead
[15:49] Speaker 3: I feel like we should do is just follow our happy.
[15:53] Speaker 3: So the reason you may not know like what to
[15:56] Speaker 3: do in this particular moment at five twelve pm on
[16:00] Speaker 3: a Wednesday, it's because you're not supposed to know right now.
[16:03] Speaker 3: The pieces haven't fallen together yet. So trust the timing
[16:06] Speaker 3: of your life and just focus on what you do know.
[16:10] Speaker 3: Focus on whatever it is that brings you joy. If
[16:14] Speaker 3: you'd rather have that extra chocolate chip cookie, if you
[16:16] Speaker 3: want to go for a walk, if you want to
[16:17] Speaker 3: cancel on your friends in favor of a quieter night,
[16:22] Speaker 3: like it, put down the emails, put down the phone,
[16:25] Speaker 3: like do something else that sparks some joy, and little
[16:28] Speaker 3: by little, the things you don't know, the things that
[16:30] Speaker 3: you were chasing, the answers to those answers will just
[16:34] Speaker 3: kind of fall into your lap.
[16:37] Speaker 5: And now a word from our sponsors who make this
[16:39] Speaker 5: show possible.
[16:50] Speaker 1: It's one of the tactics that I try to use
[16:54] Speaker 1: to undo the shame stuff, you know, because women were
[17:00] Speaker 1: cultured with so much shame. You know, not to say
[17:03] Speaker 1: that other women don't have it hard or harder, but
[17:05] Speaker 1: I do think there's a specific ingredient that having a
[17:10] Speaker 1: version of fame adds to that, where how dare you
[17:14] Speaker 1: be unhappy? How dare you ask for more? How dare
[17:17] Speaker 1: you be unsatisfied? Because you're so much luckier than all
[17:19] Speaker 1: these other people? And for me, one of the greatest
[17:25] Speaker 1: antidotes to that kind of shame of wow, I wish
[17:28] Speaker 1: I'd figured that out sooner. I wish I'd learned that
[17:30] Speaker 1: less and faster, you know, essentially telling myself I'm stupid
[17:34] Speaker 1: and slow is to say, there was no way for
[17:38] Speaker 1: you to learn that until you learned it exactly. There
[17:41] Speaker 1: was no way for you to know in your bones
[17:44] Speaker 1: until you tried every avenue, and then you knew the answer.
[17:49] Speaker 3: That's right.
[17:50] Speaker 1: You can't like guess and then feel confident in your guests.
[17:53] Speaker 1: You have to live and then adjust as you feel.
[18:00] Speaker 1: And one of the things I found really profound, and
[18:04] Speaker 1: I wonder about this for you as well, is that
[18:06] Speaker 1: when I made this decision as an adult, you know,
[18:09] Speaker 1: technically midlife forty one.
[18:12] Speaker 2: To well forty.
[18:14] Speaker 1: But you know, approaching my forty first birthday to leave
[18:16] Speaker 1: a marriage that I was unhappy and even though it
[18:19] Speaker 1: looked perfect, sure, even though I'd done all the right things,
[18:23] Speaker 1: there were so many people that felt permission to share
[18:28] Speaker 1: their own dissatisfaction, their own walking on eggshells in their home,
[18:33] Speaker 1: their own desire for something else. And then there was
[18:36] Speaker 1: a group of women that were like, oh, if you
[18:38] Speaker 1: think happy is the measure for your life or your marriage,
[18:44] Speaker 1: like you got another thing come in, honey, And I.
[18:47] Speaker 2: Was like, you don't think you're supposed to be happy.
[18:50] Speaker 4: In the house you live in?
[18:52] Speaker 3: Yeah, and like that. My response to people like that
[18:56] Speaker 3: is I'm like, because because instantly what I hear is
[18:59] Speaker 3: how unhappy they are, and you know, misery loves company, right,
[19:04] Speaker 3: And it's just I you know, when when my marriage ended,
[19:08] Speaker 3: I definitely lost friends and that's totally fine. But it's
[19:12] Speaker 3: like what I say when people, I don't even waste
[19:16] Speaker 3: energy in engaging in that type of frequency. And my
[19:21] Speaker 3: whole thing is, I'm like, I pray for you. I
[19:25] Speaker 3: pray for you. I pray for your mental health and
[19:28] Speaker 3: your sanity, because wow, like life is so much more
[19:31] Speaker 3: fun when you realize that joy and happiness and going
[19:34] Speaker 3: after the life of your dreams is fulfilling. You know.
[19:39] Speaker 3: It's like we're here for such a blip of an eye,
[19:42] Speaker 3: like tomorrow is not guaranteed. None of this is guaranteed,
[19:48] Speaker 3: you know. And if people think that they are here
[19:52] Speaker 3: simply to service other people, like that's not why we
[19:58] Speaker 3: were put here, know so yeah, like those haters, they
[20:06] Speaker 3: don't even exist to me, Like I don't totally you know,
[20:08] Speaker 3: they don't. I pray for you totally.
[20:11] Speaker 1: Well, and that's that's just it, Like it sends me,
[20:14] Speaker 1: I mean to your point, Like I'm I'm also very
[20:17] Speaker 1: woo woo meets science because it's the only way I
[20:20] Speaker 1: can make sense of like big feelings. I'm like, what's
[20:23] Speaker 1: the data say? And then how do I put them together?
[20:26] Speaker 3: Sure? And it's fun from that, yeah.
[20:28] Speaker 1: And it's like it's why I think dreaming and setting
[20:32] Speaker 1: your goals and then you know, thinking about quantum mechanics
[20:35] Speaker 1: is fun. And for me, I really had to get
[20:39] Speaker 1: to a point where I was like, I don't know
[20:41] Speaker 1: what this life is or what it's going to be,
[20:44] Speaker 1: but I actually think that the bare minimum.
[20:46] Speaker 4: To ask for not not the highest. I actually think
[20:50] Speaker 4: the lowest.
[20:51] Speaker 1: Part of the bar is I'd like to be happy
[20:53] Speaker 1: in the four walls of my own home. Yes, yeah,
[20:56] Speaker 1: because like everything else out in the world is hard enough.
[20:59] Speaker 3: Man. And you know what, Sophia the minute, what I
[21:02] Speaker 3: have found is that when you have the courage to
[21:05] Speaker 3: do what's in your highest good and you operate from
[21:09] Speaker 3: that place, it trickles down to everybody else.
[21:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
[21:13] Speaker 3: It's not it is actually one of the most selfless
[21:17] Speaker 3: things you can do is to be selfish in that
[21:20] Speaker 3: sense of course. Yeah.
[21:23] Speaker 1: And something I just am always again kind of gobsmacked
[21:27] Speaker 1: by with you is your ability. Like we're sitting here
[21:30] Speaker 1: having a very deep conversation about the trials and tribulations
[21:33] Speaker 1: of life and growth and manifestation and science to all
[21:38] Speaker 1: the things. Yeah, you also have an absolutely filthy sense
[21:43] Speaker 1: of humor. You are wickedly funny. Like there's a part
[21:47] Speaker 1: of your book you are there. There's even a part
[21:50] Speaker 1: in your book where you talk about like here I am,
[21:52] Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to ask for a divorce after
[21:55] Speaker 1: you know, eighteen years in a relationship, I'm go out
[21:57] Speaker 1: there and start over. And I'm forty and my tits
[21:59] Speaker 1: aren't pert anymore. Yeah yah, yeah, that's bravery. And I
[22:02] Speaker 1: just was like, get out of town, like I know
[22:05] Speaker 1: exactly what you mean, and.
[22:08] Speaker 4: I don't know.
[22:09] Speaker 1: Sometimes I find that the smartest people I know that
[22:12] Speaker 1: are also the funniest people I know have like really
[22:15] Speaker 1: been through some and figured out how to get through it.
[22:18] Speaker 4: So, like, where does your levity come from?
[22:21] Speaker 1: Have you always had it? Or is that also a
[22:23] Speaker 1: learned skill like bravery?
[22:25] Speaker 3: Well, I think I don't know my levity. That's a
[22:29] Speaker 3: great way of putting it, because actually don't consider myself
[22:32] Speaker 3: a funny person, like I know people who can. I
[22:35] Speaker 3: I don't consider myself funny. I consider myself real and
[22:40] Speaker 3: I think the humor comes from that place and just
[22:44] Speaker 3: my ability to be super authentic Like yeah, it's that,
[22:49] Speaker 3: you know. But I'm not somebody who can like regale
[22:53] Speaker 3: a crowd with my amazing ability to tell a story,
[22:57] Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like, I'm not that person.
[22:59] Speaker 3: You know. I can cry in front of people, I'll
[23:01] Speaker 3: do that all day long, but in order to like
[23:03] Speaker 3: tell a joke, like I can't remember anything like that's
[23:07] Speaker 3: so funny. Yeah yeah, yeah, But I just know how
[23:10] Speaker 3: to be really real. But and yes, I think that
[23:15] Speaker 3: is something that I just came into this world with
[23:19] Speaker 3: as I haven't I didn't have fear, or maybe or
[23:24] Speaker 3: I have less fear than most. There are times when
[23:26] Speaker 3: I do in terms of just being super super real.
[23:29] Speaker 3: And maybe that came from my very humble beginnings, you know,
[23:33] Speaker 3: growing up in Texas in a middle to low class
[23:37] Speaker 3: area with a single working mom. I don't know, I
[23:40] Speaker 3: don't know where that came from, but I've always been
[23:42] Speaker 3: like that. And also it was important to me that,
[23:45] Speaker 3: like when writing this book, I don't like being lectured to,
[23:50] Speaker 3: and I think we learn better or at least I
[23:53] Speaker 3: know I learned better with humor, and nobody reads anymore.
[24:00] Speaker 3: Like if I if I want to get my information
[24:03] Speaker 3: across to a group of people that are I'm asking
[24:05] Speaker 3: to sit down with an actual book, like I wanted
[24:09] Speaker 3: to hook them from the first line. So humor was
[24:13] Speaker 3: an important part in terms of like putting the book
[24:16] Speaker 3: together and getting the message across for sure.
[24:19] Speaker 2: And I think about like you were just saying, you know,
[24:21] Speaker 2: you grew up in Texas, single.
[24:22] Speaker 4: Mom, and I'm like, hold the phone.
[24:24] Speaker 1: There's a big asterisk here that maybe also leads to
[24:27] Speaker 1: your sense of humor because you grew up as an
[24:30] Speaker 1: Iranian Spanish kid in Texas. Yeah, yeah, you know, there
[24:36] Speaker 1: are so many places where that might have been easier,
[24:40] Speaker 1: Like I don't know in New York, Like how was
[24:43] Speaker 1: your community there were you were you like other body?
[24:48] Speaker 2: Very okay?
[24:49] Speaker 3: But here was the trick is it's like I didn't
[24:51] Speaker 3: have a work a name like Maria, you know, like
[24:55] Speaker 3: I didn't have you know, like my real name is
[24:59] Speaker 3: ahu ahu Jahan su Shahi. So I got I got
[25:04] Speaker 3: ridiculed in school, and I had a unibrow, and I
[25:08] Speaker 3: was made fun of every single day, and nobody I
[25:12] Speaker 3: liked ever liked me back. And you know, and I
[25:15] Speaker 3: was a nerd and you know who literally had tape
[25:18] Speaker 3: on my glasses and like I it was. It was
[25:23] Speaker 3: not the easiest place to grow up in that sense.
[25:27] Speaker 3: But so I didn't have a community in in a
[25:33] Speaker 3: way that most kids with the white picket fence like
[25:36] Speaker 3: you know and a mom and a dad like did
[25:38] Speaker 3: have a community. I didn't have that. But again I
[25:41] Speaker 3: and I credit a lot of this to my mom.
[25:43] Speaker 3: Like my mom is such a stuper woman and to
[25:46] Speaker 3: this day she still is. She's seventy five and she
[25:49] Speaker 3: climbs up on the roof and she's like, we don't
[25:51] Speaker 3: need a repair man. I can fix the air conditioning myself,
[25:54] Speaker 3: like home depot with her name the market. I'm like,
[25:56] Speaker 3: in the next life, Mom, you got to come back
[25:58] Speaker 3: as a man, because I don't know, like she runs
[26:01] Speaker 3: circles around me in terms of her energy and her
[26:04] Speaker 3: ability to like get done. And so our mother was
[26:11] Speaker 3: just she never made us feel like we were missing something,
[26:15] Speaker 3: like whatever the other kids had, we also had. And
[26:19] Speaker 3: she also taught me from a really young age. And
[26:21] Speaker 3: I think, you know, she came from a war torn
[26:23] Speaker 3: country to be the daughter of a foreigner. It's an
[26:27] Speaker 3: interesting experience and one I have felt that sometimes I
[26:32] Speaker 3: don't resonate as deeply with adults who have not come
[26:37] Speaker 3: from hardship because of this, Like from the time that
[26:42] Speaker 3: we were young, like she was like, you got to
[26:46] Speaker 3: have a four to one k together, Like let's go.
[26:49] Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if you're you know, nine, Like you
[26:53] Speaker 3: need to think about your future. You need to think
[26:55] Speaker 3: about whatever and be grateful for what you have. Because
[26:58] Speaker 3: she came from a country where we know what's happening there.
[27:01] Speaker 3: Now you know without to take it into that direction
[27:04] Speaker 3: so much, but it's like it was an education was
[27:08] Speaker 3: a privilege for women where she came from, you know,
[27:12] Speaker 3: and so and she had to work for everything that
[27:14] Speaker 3: she had. And it wasn't about patting yourself on the back.
[27:18] Speaker 3: But it's like, there is no difference between you and
[27:21] Speaker 3: the person next to you. So if you want something,
[27:25] Speaker 3: work your ass off and go get it.
[27:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[27:27] Speaker 3: And so so that type of ethic and discipline was
[27:32] Speaker 3: instilled in me from a young age. And and yeah,
[27:37] Speaker 3: and like I said, like she was like, there's there's
[27:38] Speaker 3: no difference between you and that person, Like if you
[27:42] Speaker 3: want it, go get it, go get it. It's yeah.
[27:46] Speaker 3: And she also told me from a very young age too,
[27:48] Speaker 3: like you know, we didn't have money, so she was
[27:49] Speaker 3: and everyone knew I wanted to get out of Texas.
[27:52] Speaker 3: I always I was always hungry for a life that
[27:54] Speaker 3: was bigger than the one that I was leading. And
[27:56] Speaker 3: so she was like, if you want that, then you
[27:58] Speaker 3: need to get yourself there, Like you need to do this.
[28:01] Speaker 3: She was like, I'll support you as much as I can,
[28:03] Speaker 3: but it's going to be on you. So I really
[28:05] Speaker 3: do credit my mom for that kind of hustle, you know,
[28:08] Speaker 3: but the flip to that is as an adult, and
[28:12] Speaker 3: you know, I'm in this interesting phase in my life.
[28:14] Speaker 3: I'm single for the first time in twenty three years.
[28:17] Speaker 3: I've been single off for a year, and where I'm
[28:19] Speaker 3: so used to the hustle and I'm so used to
[28:21] Speaker 3: the chase that now I'm I'm learning how to cut
[28:25] Speaker 3: that off and I'm learning to be more like in
[28:30] Speaker 3: the receptive mode. And you know when I am like,
[28:35] Speaker 3: my chase is appropriate when it comes from a very
[28:38] Speaker 3: inspired place of action. But if it's all about just
[28:40] Speaker 3: wanting a guy to like me, that's the wrong inspired action.
[28:44] Speaker 3: So I'm really so I'm continually learning lessons about my
[28:49] Speaker 3: personality and sides like where they service me and where
[28:54] Speaker 3: they come from a more ego place. And you know,
[28:57] Speaker 3: I need to I need to quiet that bitch down and.
[29:00] Speaker 1: Just totally totally be like, oh, you're not the part
[29:04] Speaker 1: of myself that gets to operate the vehicle, thank you,
[29:07] Speaker 1: like getting the backseat.
[29:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very much, very much on that journey.
[29:13] Speaker 5: Yes, And now a word from our sponsors.
[29:25] Speaker 1: When you talk about like the hustle and the work, like,
[29:29] Speaker 1: one of my favorite things in your story is it's
[29:33] Speaker 1: the swift switch from studying opera in college and then
[29:39] Speaker 1: right after you're cheering for the Dallas Cowboys, Like yeah, what, yeah,
[29:45] Speaker 1: you it's like a vida to Friday Night Lights, Like
[29:50] Speaker 1: how what.
[29:53] Speaker 2: Is that timeline for you? Like can you take us back?
[29:56] Speaker 1: Why opera in the first place? Then how did the cheering?
[29:59] Speaker 1: Like it's so crazy, it feels like it's out of
[30:02] Speaker 1: a movie. And I just like, I need the I
[30:04] Speaker 1: need the synopsis.
[30:05] Speaker 3: Well, I was. I was a show choir kid, and
[30:08] Speaker 3: you know, I was always on stage from the time
[30:11] Speaker 3: that I was young, even if it wasn't acting. I
[30:14] Speaker 3: was like Rachel Berry and Blee but Lesstie and and uh.
[30:19] Speaker 3: I just love that word and anyway I do too.
[30:23] Speaker 4: I think we deserve to own it the like hard.
[30:25] Speaker 3: Syllables, like in the beginning and the end. It's just brilliant. Anyway,
[30:29] Speaker 3: So I yeah, So I was at Southern Methodist University
[30:35] Speaker 3: and I was, like I said, I was always in
[30:37] Speaker 3: show choir. So opera was something that I fell into
[30:41] Speaker 3: very naturally. And I was in a play. I was
[30:45] Speaker 3: in a musical theater production at SMU, and I had
[30:50] Speaker 3: always wanted to be an actress, but I didn't know
[30:53] Speaker 3: how to do it. But everybody in the play knew
[30:56] Speaker 3: that I wanted to be an actress. So they were
[30:58] Speaker 3: like and that I had of going to LA but
[31:01] Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know how to get there right,
[31:03] Speaker 3: Like I didn't have money. Like, so they were like, well,
[31:06] Speaker 3: why don't you try out for the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders
[31:09] Speaker 3: because back in nineteen ninety five they were on SNL
[31:14] Speaker 3: so and I was always an athlete in school. I
[31:16] Speaker 3: was never a cheerleader, and so I was like, okay,
[31:20] Speaker 3: And so I just drove to Texas Stadium that day
[31:25] Speaker 3: not knowing like again, like when they you know, I
[31:28] Speaker 3: was so naive, like there was no part of me
[31:30] Speaker 3: that was like, oh, let me look it up online.
[31:32] Speaker 3: Like I didn't even know what online was, like AOL
[31:35] Speaker 3: was a dial up, and so I was like, let me.
[31:38] Speaker 3: I just drove to Texas Stadium one afternoon and auditions
[31:42] Speaker 3: were literally like three weeks from that date and they
[31:45] Speaker 3: had posted it and so I was like, oh, great,
[31:48] Speaker 3: I'll just sign up. So I signed up and I
[31:53] Speaker 3: made the team and a director named Robert Goltman. And
[31:57] Speaker 3: it breaks my heart the amount of times I have
[31:59] Speaker 3: to spell out who he is, but I know you
[32:02] Speaker 3: know who he is. He's essentially the godfather of film. Like,
[32:05] Speaker 3: for the listeners who don't know who he is, do
[32:06] Speaker 3: yourselves a favor. Go look up Robert Outmann and just
[32:09] Speaker 3: like treat yourself to an afternoon of his films. He was.
[32:13] Speaker 3: He came to Texas to film a movie called Doctor
[32:16] Speaker 3: teen the Women with Richard gear, Kate Hudson, and Lyft Tyler.
[32:19] Speaker 3: And in the movie the girls were cheerleaders, so he
[32:22] Speaker 3: used our rehearsal facilities for about two weeks that he
[32:27] Speaker 3: was there, and all the cheerleaders we were just extras
[32:30] Speaker 3: in the background. Yeah. I didn't know who he was
[32:33] Speaker 3: at all, Like I had no there was nothing in
[32:37] Speaker 3: me that was like, oh, Hollywood director, maybe he can
[32:40] Speaker 3: help me. Like there was like it did not exist
[32:43] Speaker 3: in my head. For whatever reason, the stars aligned and
[32:47] Speaker 3: he took a great, big liking to me. And every
[32:50] Speaker 3: day I sat with him. I had my own chair, Sophia,
[32:53] Speaker 3: get this, I had my own chair in video village,
[32:57] Speaker 3: nineteen year old me. Next Robert Altman. Wow, And and
[33:03] Speaker 3: like literally a PA would come and be like, Sarah,
[33:06] Speaker 3: your chairs here today, And I'm like, oh my god,
[33:09] Speaker 3: thank you so much. Like I was like, cool, oh
[33:12] Speaker 3: am I supposed to sit there? They're like, yeah, that's
[33:14] Speaker 3: your chair, and I'm like what. So I would sit
[33:17] Speaker 3: next to him and we would speak about everything other
[33:21] Speaker 3: than acting, and it was his It was his like
[33:24] Speaker 3: third to last day that he was there when he
[33:26] Speaker 3: finally was like, what do you want to do? And
[33:28] Speaker 3: I said, well, I want to be an actress. I
[33:30] Speaker 3: just don't know how to do it. And he was like,
[33:32] Speaker 3: I think you have what it takes. He gave me
[33:34] Speaker 3: his cell number and his office number, and he said,
[33:39] Speaker 3: I think you have something. If you ever move out
[33:42] Speaker 3: to LA, I want to help you. I went home
[33:44] Speaker 3: that night and I googled him because again I was like,
[33:49] Speaker 3: who is this person? Like can he really help me?
[33:52] Speaker 3: So I went home I googled him. Of all the
[33:56] Speaker 3: incredible OSCARED nominated movies he did, the only one that
[34:00] Speaker 3: I really recognized was the movie. That movie that almost
[34:03] Speaker 3: tanked his career and Robin Williams's career was a movie
[34:06] Speaker 3: called Popeye. So I told my mom. I was like, mom,
[34:08] Speaker 3: the guy who directed Popeye is telling me I got
[34:11] Speaker 3: a shot. So I packed up my truck. I quit cheerleading,
[34:16] Speaker 3: I quit SMU, I quit everything that I knew, and
[34:21] Speaker 3: I moved out West twenty in two thousand and I
[34:27] Speaker 3: never looked back. There was no part of me like
[34:29] Speaker 3: when they say too like, you know, ignorance is bliss, Sophia.
[34:32] Speaker 3: The amount of times people were like, well, what's your backup?
[34:34] Speaker 3: What's your what's your plan B? I'm like, what is
[34:37] Speaker 3: a plan B? And they're like, well, a backup plan
[34:39] Speaker 3: like if you don't make it? And I'm like, what
[34:41] Speaker 3: do you mean if I don't make it? Like, well,
[34:42] Speaker 3: of course I'm gonna make it.
[34:44] Speaker 4: Yeah, this is what I'm doing.
[34:46] Speaker 3: It was manifestation at a level that I didn't even understand.
[34:50] Speaker 3: And now that I've gotten older and you know, life
[34:53] Speaker 3: got a little heavier at times, I often remind myself
[34:57] Speaker 3: of how I was that nineteen to twenty five year
[34:59] Speaker 3: old self that was just like just operating out of
[35:02] Speaker 3: her bliss like moments a moment, I was just so
[35:06] Speaker 3: in my bliss like there was no like I remember
[35:09] Speaker 3: going to an audition for the first time. I didn't
[35:11] Speaker 3: even know what an audition was. I wasn't memorized it
[35:14] Speaker 3: was a producer session. There was all the scoot in
[35:17] Speaker 3: the back of the room for the producers. I thought
[35:19] Speaker 3: it was for the actors. So I go in and
[35:21] Speaker 3: I start making myself a plate and people are like,
[35:24] Speaker 3: how long have you been acting? And I go, I
[35:27] Speaker 3: don't know, since Tuesday. And they're like, they're like, how
[35:31] Speaker 3: did you get your start? I'm like, well, do you
[35:34] Speaker 3: know Robert Altman? And their jaws were drop. They're like,
[35:37] Speaker 3: you know Robert Altman. I'm like, yeah, if you told me,
[35:39] Speaker 3: I should come try it out. So I'm here and
[35:43] Speaker 3: a little by and it's interesting because when I came
[35:44] Speaker 3: out to LA, he was still in Texas filming and
[35:48] Speaker 3: we were playing phone tag with one another. So as
[35:52] Speaker 3: I was sharing the story of how I came to LA,
[35:54] Speaker 3: while I was in LA, people were also giving me
[35:57] Speaker 3: an education on who Robert Altman was, and they were like,
[36:00] Speaker 3: you should go back and watch his films. Anyway, long
[36:03] Speaker 3: story short, by the time he called me back last
[36:07] Speaker 3: I was too intimidated to talk to him, so I
[36:09] Speaker 3: didn't call him back. And then he passed a couple
[36:13] Speaker 3: months after, so he was literally like the acting angel,
[36:18] Speaker 3: Like my catalyst for coming out was him.
[36:21] Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, yeah yeah, yeah, like just the nudge
[36:25] Speaker 1: you needed on your on your energetic path.
[36:29] Speaker 3: That's right. He was, yeah, he was. He was just
[36:31] Speaker 3: he gave me that little push and then that was
[36:33] Speaker 3: that was it. Our chapter was closed. Yeah. Oh my god, Yeah, yeah,
[36:38] Speaker 3: really cool.
[36:39] Speaker 4: That's incredible.
[36:40] Speaker 2: I don't know why. My brain was just like, oh
[36:43] Speaker 2: my god.
[36:43] Speaker 1: The closest I have to that story is when I
[36:46] Speaker 1: never called Rihanna Back in the day for whatever reason.
[36:52] Speaker 1: There was like a New York Fashion Week and then
[36:54] Speaker 1: a series of events that I kept seeing Rihanna at
[36:58] Speaker 1: and we got seated next to each other at a
[36:59] Speaker 1: dinner and we vibed and She's like, she's Rihanna, She's
[37:03] Speaker 1: the coolest person alive on player. And after like our
[37:07] Speaker 1: third hang she was like, take my number. We got
[37:10] Speaker 1: to hang out for real, and then I like took her.
[37:12] Speaker 1: I put her number in my BlackBerry, like.
[37:15] Speaker 4: That's how long the was?
[37:16] Speaker 3: God?
[37:17] Speaker 4: And then I never.
[37:19] Speaker 1: Called her because I was like, what do I say
[37:23] Speaker 1: to Rihanna?
[37:24] Speaker 4: Like I don't.
[37:26] Speaker 3: Had umbrella come out? Yes, Oh my god, I was
[37:30] Speaker 3: like so fully.
[37:31] Speaker 1: I just was like this is such a weird, like
[37:34] Speaker 1: what is a person text?
[37:36] Speaker 4: And my friends were just like yeah. When I told
[37:38] Speaker 4: them the story.
[37:38] Speaker 1: Years later, my best friend, one of my best friends,
[37:40] Speaker 1: was like, I will never forgive you for this, like
[37:42] Speaker 1: she's our favorite. I was like, I know, but what
[37:44] Speaker 1: am I going to do invite her over to a party?
[37:46] Speaker 1: And she was like yeah, yeah, And I was like
[37:48] Speaker 1: I don't. I don't actually think I can interact with
[37:51] Speaker 1: a person who's famous like that because I lose my
[37:55] Speaker 1: capacity to behave like a human. And then I'm like, well,
[37:58] Speaker 1: what do you text? And people were like, what do
[38:00] Speaker 1: you text anyone?
[38:01] Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't.
[38:01] Speaker 1: I don't actually know, right, It's like the only way,
[38:05] Speaker 1: the only thing I know to liken it to is
[38:07] Speaker 1: like the thing where you're really in the vibe on
[38:10] Speaker 1: set and then suddenly something happens and you get self
[38:12] Speaker 1: conscious of rioting, and the way I know that like, oh,
[38:17] Speaker 1: I'm in my nervousness about acting. Body is suddenly I
[38:20] Speaker 1: don't know what to do with my hands, Like I'm
[38:23] Speaker 1: just like what are arms?
[38:24] Speaker 4: Where do they go? Like where do I?
[38:30] Speaker 3: Yeah?
[38:31] Speaker 4: Like what do you mean?
[38:32] Speaker 2: Where do I put my hands? They're just part of
[38:33] Speaker 2: my body.
[38:34] Speaker 4: But it's exactly it's like energetically that, right, And.
[38:39] Speaker 2: I can't believe you.
[38:41] Speaker 1: Had a version of it with Robert Altman being like,
[38:43] Speaker 1: oh my god, he's so amazing.
[38:45] Speaker 2: I cannot like, what are you going to say to
[38:47] Speaker 2: him now that you know who he is?
[38:49] Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly. And it was just interesting because a person
[38:52] Speaker 3: that I but that also goes to show you your mind, right,
[38:57] Speaker 3: and how we are not our minds, because our mind
[39:00] Speaker 3: can sell us some pretty warped, warped stories. Yes, but yeah,
[39:04] Speaker 3: this was a person that I found so much in
[39:07] Speaker 3: common with with, spoke so freely with, and the minute
[39:12] Speaker 3: other people started telling me about his accomplishments, I clammed up.
[39:16] Speaker 3: You know, That's why I pressurized it. Yeah, And it's like,
[39:19] Speaker 3: now I go into I don't go into situations really
[39:24] Speaker 3: investigating the person or researching what they've done or who
[39:27] Speaker 3: they are. You know when they say ignorance is bliss,
[39:30] Speaker 3: like it really is true. You know, you don't need
[39:33] Speaker 3: to know everything?
[39:34] Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't need to feel more anxious
[39:36] Speaker 2: than I already do.
[39:37] Speaker 3: Thank you, right right, right, right, right exactly exactly.
[39:42] Speaker 1: I'm really curious though, like when you when you really
[39:46] Speaker 1: got to working your acting career was blossoming, was also
[39:50] Speaker 1: when you first became a mom. Yeah, yeah, you know
[39:54] Speaker 1: we were. We were certainly not in the moment as
[39:56] Speaker 1: women that we're in now. Granted it's not like it's
[39:58] Speaker 1: all that much better, but was that incredibly complicated to
[40:02] Speaker 1: be really succeeding in your career and also to have
[40:06] Speaker 1: to be a mom because it is it is just
[40:09] Speaker 1: different for women in parenthood.
[40:12] Speaker 3: Yeah, it is different. You know. The expectation is also different.
[40:16] Speaker 3: Like it's interesting, Like as much as I love feminism
[40:21] Speaker 3: and I am a feminist, I feel like we're now
[40:23] Speaker 3: expected to be the boss at home and the boss
[40:25] Speaker 3: at work, which is a very unrealistic set of expectations
[40:28] Speaker 3: that have been placed on us. But my career really
[40:31] Speaker 3: started blossoming whenever I had my firstborn. And you know,
[40:37] Speaker 3: I love babies. I did homebirds with all of my kids,
[40:40] Speaker 3: including the flins, and one was breach, And I just
[40:44] Speaker 3: think babies bring such good luck. You know, if I
[40:47] Speaker 3: had somebody today, i'd get pregnant tomorrow, you know what
[40:50] Speaker 3: I mean. Like, babies are just incredible. But it was tough.
[40:54] Speaker 3: But you know, I'm not somebody who sits here and says,
[40:57] Speaker 3: oh I did it all alone. No, I had had
[41:00] Speaker 3: a nanny. It was important for me, it also breastfeeds,
[41:03] Speaker 3: so we would build it into the pumping schedule. We
[41:05] Speaker 3: would build my pumping and breastfeeding schedule into the schedule
[41:08] Speaker 3: for the day. And yeah, you just make it work.
[41:12] Speaker 3: You just make it work.
[41:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[41:14] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[41:15] Speaker 1: And now you're here with the book and you're talking
[41:18] Speaker 1: about this messy middle period of life, and you know,
[41:22] Speaker 1: you fast forward.
[41:23] Speaker 2: You have three kids.
[41:24] Speaker 1: You realize you love being their mom, and you also
[41:29] Speaker 1: don't love being married to their dad.
[41:31] Speaker 2: You want to shift in your life.
[41:33] Speaker 3: I think you know, when relationships end, it's never something
[41:37] Speaker 3: that happens overnight. Right, It's like a downward slope, and
[41:42] Speaker 3: it's never one person. It's two people and for whatever reason,
[41:48] Speaker 3: and there's no judgment here, and this is neither good
[41:50] Speaker 3: nor bad. But the goose just doesn't lay the golden
[41:54] Speaker 3: egg anymore. It's just that simple, right. You know. It's
[41:58] Speaker 3: like I experienced the breakup last year that you know,
[42:00] Speaker 3: became somewhat public, and it's like there was no table flipping,
[42:04] Speaker 3: there was no one person did the other dirty. It
[42:08] Speaker 3: was nothing like that. It's just the dance has lost
[42:13] Speaker 3: its step, right, and to be able to say I
[42:20] Speaker 3: do love you, I do care about you, and I
[42:22] Speaker 3: love you enough to let you go. Yeah, because this
[42:26] Speaker 3: is not serving either of us. It's actually one of
[42:30] Speaker 3: the most courageous things, bravest things that someone can do.
[42:34] Speaker 2: I agree.
[42:35] Speaker 3: And it's not a failure. I never thought my divorce
[42:42] Speaker 3: was a failure. I was like, we were together for
[42:45] Speaker 3: eighteen years, and we grew up together. We shaped each other.
[42:49] Speaker 3: Like what a privilege, What a privilege to be in
[42:52] Speaker 3: connection with somebody from the time that you're in your
[42:55] Speaker 3: early twenties until you're in your forties. Like that's cool,
[43:00] Speaker 3: you know. And we have three incredible children. We're great
[43:04] Speaker 3: co parents, and we are committed to this life with
[43:09] Speaker 3: each other for our children. And it's a really beautiful
[43:12] Speaker 3: feeling knowing that we've reached this space with one another,
[43:19] Speaker 3: you know, like that prior dynamic did not work, but
[43:22] Speaker 3: we are in a new dynamic with one another. And yes,
[43:24] Speaker 3: it took time to get there and took you know,
[43:28] Speaker 3: emotional emotional evolvement on both people's parts, but we're in
[43:33] Speaker 3: this really lovely space and the kids are the most
[43:37] Speaker 3: important thing, and they're really benefiting from their parents being
[43:41] Speaker 3: able to co parent healthily. Yeah, and you know, and
[43:44] Speaker 3: that's all that matters for he and I.
[43:46] Speaker 5: Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors.
[44:00] Speaker 1: Friend of mine said something really interesting to me, you know,
[44:03] Speaker 1: talking about progress and obviously the you know, the backlash
[44:06] Speaker 1: we see around the world to it, particularly for women,
[44:10] Speaker 1: and she said, you know, I think one of the
[44:12] Speaker 1: things I've come to realize is that one of the
[44:15] Speaker 1: greatest markers of progress for our generation, and it might
[44:20] Speaker 1: not be something people see till later, because I think
[44:23] Speaker 1: we're the first generation of women. Not to say I'll
[44:27] Speaker 1: stay for the kids, but to say I'm leaving for
[44:30] Speaker 1: my kids. I'm leaving to model something better for my
[44:35] Speaker 1: children than what was modeled for me. I don't want
[44:38] Speaker 1: to teach them to seek this out and whether this
[44:44] Speaker 1: is something toxic, whether it's abusive, whether.
[44:47] Speaker 2: It's just not happy.
[44:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, to reframe, as you said, whether it's
[44:54] Speaker 1: divorce or an ending or anything as a success to
[44:59] Speaker 1: say I walked up alongside this person for years. Yeah,
[45:02] Speaker 1: we learned things, and then we came to the day,
[45:06] Speaker 1: after a long time of shifting apart, we came to
[45:09] Speaker 1: the day where we were meant to go on our
[45:11] Speaker 1: own journeys. Yeah, Like, what a gorgeous thing as you said,
[45:15] Speaker 1: to experience portions of your life alongside someone and then
[45:20] Speaker 1: to be generous enough with yourself and for them to say,
[45:26] Speaker 1: I deserve what's next for me, and you deserve what's
[45:28] Speaker 1: next for you, instead of let's stay because once we
[45:32] Speaker 1: said we would, and let's be miserable forever.
[45:35] Speaker 3: You know, I've always felt that forever. It's wrong to say,
[45:42] Speaker 3: you know, till death do us part. And look, people
[45:44] Speaker 3: who take those vows and feel great about them, that's incredible.
[45:47] Speaker 3: And look I did too, right, But we've all been there.
[45:51] Speaker 3: We've all been there, So it's like, I understand, and
[45:54] Speaker 3: I know that at the time when you're saying those things,
[45:56] Speaker 3: you really mean it. Nobody gets married planning their divorce,
[45:59] Speaker 3: no like, and you know, and I was like, I
[46:02] Speaker 3: want to when we die, I want to be buried
[46:06] Speaker 3: on top of you and come back as ghosts and
[46:08] Speaker 3: haunt people, you know what I mean. My love carries
[46:11] Speaker 3: into the afterlife. So so it's a very deep love.
[46:15] Speaker 3: But you know, at the same time, it's you know,
[46:22] Speaker 3: like you said, it is an act of bravery. It
[46:26] Speaker 3: is just an act of bravery, and it is one
[46:29] Speaker 3: of the most selfless things. You know, you can do
[46:31] Speaker 3: is to be able to say we're going to let
[46:33] Speaker 3: each other go because this isn't serving either of us anymore.
[46:36] Speaker 3: And when you do have kids, you have to think
[46:38] Speaker 3: about you have to think about what you're modeling for
[46:41] Speaker 3: them by staying yes. You know, It's like, I have
[46:44] Speaker 3: a daughter and two sons, and so for me, it
[46:47] Speaker 3: was like, would I be happy if my daughter were
[46:51] Speaker 3: in a relationship like this? If my daughter felt like
[46:54] Speaker 3: the way I feel, ye, would I want this for her?
[46:57] Speaker 3: And the answer was absolutely not. With my boys, is
[47:01] Speaker 3: I was like, am I okay modeling this for them?
[47:06] Speaker 3: Do I want them to think that this is how
[47:10] Speaker 3: a woman should act when she's not happy a woman?
[47:13] Speaker 3: And it was like no. And it doesn't mean there's
[47:15] Speaker 3: no tears. It doesn't mean that it's not hard, you know,
[47:18] Speaker 3: one of the hardest. You know, I really got my
[47:20] Speaker 3: PhD and pain management when I got my divorce right.
[47:24] Speaker 3: So it was like, what do you do with the ring?
[47:26] Speaker 3: What do you do with the pictures on the wall?
[47:29] Speaker 3: Like what do you do with all that stuff? Where
[47:31] Speaker 3: does the love go? You know, you carry all this
[47:33] Speaker 3: love for somebody for so long, like it doesn't just
[47:36] Speaker 3: disappear and also especially when you have children with them,
[47:39] Speaker 3: you're still connected to them. Oh, really learning what to
[47:44] Speaker 3: do with all those energies that were once flowing in
[47:48] Speaker 3: one direction so heavily, Where does it now go? I
[47:52] Speaker 3: spent a lot of time in that space, right, and
[47:54] Speaker 3: you know, and talk about it in the book, and
[47:57] Speaker 3: also just healing and heartbreak, like how do you get
[48:00] Speaker 3: through it? You know, like everyone there's no there's no
[48:04] Speaker 3: one way to grieve. And I feel like people don't
[48:07] Speaker 3: talk enough about grieving because pain is something that we've
[48:10] Speaker 3: been conditioned to sort of like not feel, right, like
[48:13] Speaker 3: from the time that we're young. If we fall, our moms,
[48:18] Speaker 3: you know, they put a band aid on it, tell
[48:20] Speaker 3: us not to cry, We get a double scoop ice
[48:22] Speaker 3: cream cone, and we're off on our way, right, you know,
[48:25] Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you're okay, you're fine, don't cry. Good,
[48:27] Speaker 3: it's all good. You're fine. But if anything, pain is inevitable, right,
[48:31] Speaker 3: So it's like you can't go through life without experiencing pain.
[48:34] Speaker 3: But we need to learn to open ourselves up to pain.
[48:37] Speaker 3: And it was the moment when I stopped numbing myself.
[48:41] Speaker 3: It was the moment that I stopped escaping or trying
[48:45] Speaker 3: to run or replace my pain or you know that.
[48:49] Speaker 3: That's and when I finally was like, Okay, where are you?
[48:54] Speaker 3: What are you trying to teach me? When I finally
[48:57] Speaker 3: looked at my pain, that's when I was able to
[48:59] Speaker 3: love myself enough to be able to get out of
[49:02] Speaker 3: something that wasn't serving me anymore. Mm.
[49:06] Speaker 2: That's really beautiful.
[49:08] Speaker 1: You talk about this in the book, but I would
[49:11] Speaker 1: love to touch on it a little bit, because, yeah,
[49:14] Speaker 1: you share about how you know of all the things
[49:18] Speaker 1: that you've worked on that are wonderful. Also side note,
[49:21] Speaker 1: I'm the biggest fan of Paradise. I can't talk about
[49:23] Speaker 1: Oh thank you, but sex Life was so breath taking
[49:28] Speaker 1: it felt like revolutionary in.
[49:30] Speaker 3: A lot of ways. It did.
[49:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, And to read about how it came to you
[49:35] Speaker 1: in a moment where you were really not just on
[49:39] Speaker 1: screen as this character, but in your own life processing
[49:42] Speaker 1: what you're talking about, processing feel agency, where you got
[49:47] Speaker 1: to explore desire and taboo and happiness and the lack
[49:54] Speaker 1: thereof through a character.
[49:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, holy sh Yeah.
[50:00] Speaker 1: I learned so much more about it through the book
[50:03] Speaker 1: than I knew. Yeah, So I mean, please, if you
[50:06] Speaker 1: could just speak to it I think it's so incredible.
[50:08] Speaker 1: And then in the book you're offering some advice about sex,
[50:12] Speaker 1: which I feel like you had to be emboldened to
[50:14] Speaker 1: do by the show one.
[50:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, it was also like you know, Sophia, I feel
[50:20] Speaker 3: like we live in this age where viagra, like I
[50:24] Speaker 3: talked about in the book, viagra, which is something that
[50:26] Speaker 3: makes a limp dick hard, just rolls off of everyone's
[50:31] Speaker 3: tongue like it's every day vernacular and we just accept it.
[50:34] Speaker 3: But if a woman is talking about her period or
[50:37] Speaker 3: the gesterone or any kind of hormonal change, we have
[50:40] Speaker 3: to do it behind closed doors. Like I'll never forget.
[50:43] Speaker 3: There was this one day on set where I was
[50:46] Speaker 3: on my period and I asked a pa if I
[50:48] Speaker 3: could have some tampons and she was like oh, and
[50:51] Speaker 3: she you know, got on the walk and she was like,
[50:52] Speaker 3: you know, turned to channel one hundred and five and
[50:56] Speaker 3: I was like, what's going on? And then they were like, yes,
[50:59] Speaker 3: there are a few want to step and trailer will
[51:01] Speaker 3: bring you what you need. And I was like what
[51:04] Speaker 3: and they I go into my trailer and then you
[51:07] Speaker 3: know this, you know, knock on the door, and the
[51:09] Speaker 3: door kind of like ominously swings open and this little
[51:12] Speaker 3: like package is like just through the crack, and it
[51:15] Speaker 3: was in a Manila envelope, and I'm like, are you
[51:17] Speaker 3: kidding me? Everybody came out of the out of a
[51:20] Speaker 3: vagina here, Like it's not like my period. The fact
[51:24] Speaker 3: that I'm bleeding shouldn't be this like thing that she
[51:27] Speaker 3: you know, like I should feel ashamed for talking about
[51:30] Speaker 3: like what. So it was it was also important for
[51:33] Speaker 3: me to be part of the conversation to help like
[51:36] Speaker 3: switch the dynamic a little bit. But when I was
[51:39] Speaker 3: on Sex Life, yes, like you know, not only was
[51:41] Speaker 3: it like a battle cry for so many women that
[51:43] Speaker 3: were unhappy and felt unseen. You know, the show came
[51:48] Speaker 3: at a time in my life where the character of
[51:52] Speaker 3: Billy had the courage to question all of the things
[51:56] Speaker 3: that I was silently questioning and I was scared to question.
[52:00] Speaker 3: So it really was fate, you know, I'm going to work.
[52:05] Speaker 3: I felt like I was. It was therapy for me.
[52:08] Speaker 3: I felt like I was reading out of the pages
[52:11] Speaker 3: of my heart. Like it was just a very interesting
[52:14] Speaker 3: time in my life, you know. So, yes, and one
[52:18] Speaker 3: in which I will be forever grateful too. But the
[52:21] Speaker 3: sexual component of the show was also interesting. And you know,
[52:25] Speaker 3: I mean, you know how it is when you do
[52:26] Speaker 3: a project, You're never thinking it's going to be this.
[52:29] Speaker 3: You don't go into it going, oh my god, this
[52:30] Speaker 3: is going to be the biggest thing ever. Your responsibility
[52:34] Speaker 3: is to the character. You want to tell the highest
[52:36] Speaker 3: degree of truth for the story, and you're there to
[52:38] Speaker 3: tell a story. Whether or not it resonates with people
[52:43] Speaker 3: is beyond your control. And so when the show came
[52:47] Speaker 3: out and I kind of got put on this platform
[52:50] Speaker 3: for unhappily married women or women who didn't know how
[52:54] Speaker 3: to use their voice, and I was just flooded with
[52:58] Speaker 3: women who were like, how did you have the couraged
[53:00] Speaker 3: you know, to leave? And also I've never had an
[53:03] Speaker 3: orgasm before? How do I speak up? And I was
[53:06] Speaker 3: just like, oh my god, like orgasms and sexuality, like
[53:11] Speaker 3: these are god given rights, Like this isn't something that
[53:14] Speaker 3: should be taboo like oh no, like or sorted like
[53:19] Speaker 3: women's sexuality is not a sordid thing to talk about,
[53:22] Speaker 3: Like it's very natural and something in which we were
[53:25] Speaker 3: all born with this again, this birthright to experience pleasure
[53:32] Speaker 3: to the almost degree. So it was a little scary
[53:36] Speaker 3: for me to write about it because I was like,
[53:38] Speaker 3: you know, again, I was afraid of judgment. I was
[53:41] Speaker 3: you know, I have three children. You know, I was like, Okay,
[53:44] Speaker 3: how is this going to come across. But at the
[53:46] Speaker 3: same time, for me, anytime I do feel afraid to
[53:49] Speaker 3: do something, that's a signal for me to step into it,
[53:54] Speaker 3: and so like, I know, I'm going to do something
[53:56] Speaker 3: that is create some sort of change or conversation, and
[54:01] Speaker 3: I feel like that's what we're here to do, that's
[54:03] Speaker 3: what makes life fun.
[54:04] Speaker 2: I think it's incredible.
[54:06] Speaker 1: I think it's incredible, especially you know when you just
[54:09] Speaker 1: said that thing, which is so normal for all of us.
[54:13] Speaker 2: Well, I have three children. Oh my parents will read this.
[54:16] Speaker 1: Oh ah yeah, It's like sure, but again, even speaking
[54:20] Speaker 1: to what I want this marriage for my children, right,
[54:24] Speaker 1: I also think there's something you know, when you talk
[54:26] Speaker 1: about all of the women out there who've never experienced
[54:30] Speaker 1: an orgasm, who've been married from you know, to ten years,
[54:33] Speaker 1: it's like you.
[54:34] Speaker 3: Gotta start tickling that clip, like get it on it, Like.
[54:37] Speaker 1: No, But in my brain I'm like, wait, so then
[54:40] Speaker 1: all these women are experiencing their lives being used for
[54:44] Speaker 1: a man's pleasure and not being allowed to participate, Like
[54:48] Speaker 1: that's vulgar to me.
[54:50] Speaker 3: That's or not choosing to participate because they they inherently
[54:55] Speaker 3: are holding themselves back because of their earlier programming. That's
[55:00] Speaker 3: dirdy or sex is not you know whatever.
[55:02] Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, well, and they might not be
[55:05] Speaker 1: choosing or by the way, they might not even be
[55:07] Speaker 1: being acknowledged participating. And I love that you wrote this
[55:12] Speaker 1: book and you talk about these things with your three kids,
[55:16] Speaker 1: because don't we want all of our kids to say, Hey,
[55:19] Speaker 1: if I'm going to have an intimate or sexual experience,
[55:22] Speaker 1: I'm going to be a full participant in it. I'm
[55:25] Speaker 1: going to have agency, I'm going to consent, I'm going
[55:28] Speaker 1: to enjoy myself.
[55:30] Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly, that's exactly. I want my children to grow
[55:37] Speaker 3: up feeling confident in themselves, to be in respectful relationships
[55:42] Speaker 3: where desire and pleasure and sensuality is mutually exchanged, you
[55:46] Speaker 3: know what I mean. It's like that most of the
[55:48] Speaker 3: good things in life.
[55:49] Speaker 1: Yes, you know, if they're going to have healthy intimate
[55:52] Speaker 1: relationships in their adulthood, conversations about sexuality and intimacy cannot
[55:58] Speaker 1: be tampons in them and envelope it just cannot be that.
[56:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not want that. So yeah, it's it's
[56:07] Speaker 3: it's it's interesting. And also it's like, you know, being
[56:12] Speaker 3: single now, I've been learning about myself in a different
[56:16] Speaker 3: way and in terms of like how I carry myself
[56:20] Speaker 3: through the world. And I think before I'm not saying
[56:25] Speaker 3: that this was as a result of any of my
[56:28] Speaker 3: partners putting this on me, but I think I was.
[56:31] Speaker 3: I didn't. I'm an aries rising, Okay, And if you
[56:35] Speaker 3: know anything about astrology, like aries is the fire sign,
[56:39] Speaker 3: and so I like to have a little wink and
[56:44] Speaker 3: mischief in my eyes wherever I go. Like, it doesn't
[56:47] Speaker 3: mean that I want to somebody. It doesn't mean that
[56:49] Speaker 3: I'm necessarily like putting the vibes out there for them.
[56:52] Speaker 3: I could flirt with I could flirt with the wall
[56:56] Speaker 3: the same way that I could flirt with the female
[56:59] Speaker 3: or male barista at Starbucks, you know what I mean. So, Okay,
[57:02] Speaker 3: there is no it's me, it's the face. It's actually
[57:04] Speaker 3: for you, it's my sacred fire, it's it's just me.
[57:10] Speaker 3: And in my relationships for the last twenty three years,
[57:14] Speaker 3: i've kind of put I've suppressed that a bit because
[57:18] Speaker 3: I don't want to come across as disrespectful, and I
[57:21] Speaker 3: don't want to, you know, send the wrong signals and
[57:23] Speaker 3: I don't want to whatever. And so it's like I
[57:25] Speaker 3: have held myself back a little bit and or a lot,
[57:29] Speaker 3: and I have now realized like, oh no, this is
[57:34] Speaker 3: kind of this is who I am. And you know,
[57:38] Speaker 3: the next and how I take up space in the world.
[57:41] Speaker 3: And you know, the thing about sexuality and sensuality doesn't
[57:44] Speaker 3: even have to be sex. Like sensuality and especially women femininity,
[57:50] Speaker 3: this is how I take up space. You know. This
[57:53] Speaker 3: is how like I look at myself in the mornings
[57:55] Speaker 3: and I like giving myself a little wink. You know.
[57:58] Speaker 3: It's like it's it's it's play, it's it's and it's
[58:02] Speaker 3: what I feel really good doing, you know, and yeah,
[58:06] Speaker 3: it's it's and that and that landscape can change each day,
[58:10] Speaker 3: like what sensuality looks like, what femininity looks like like
[58:13] Speaker 3: that can change day to day. There are many different
[58:15] Speaker 3: ways and types to be feminine. I wrote a subset
[58:18] Speaker 3: article about this one time because it's like there's so
[58:21] Speaker 3: much judgment about like what a woman looks like or
[58:24] Speaker 3: should look like, and whether someone is you know, wearing
[58:29] Speaker 3: scantily clad clothing great amazing, like good for them, Or
[58:34] Speaker 3: if somebody wants to be head to toe like Tom
[58:37] Speaker 3: the Tomboy look great, good for them. Like it's just
[58:40] Speaker 3: it's all equal there, there is no judgment on anything.
[58:44] Speaker 3: So being able to be single in this time has
[58:48] Speaker 3: allowed me to explore parts of myself that I have
[58:51] Speaker 3: quieted for a long time. And I'm excited about whatever
[58:55] Speaker 3: my next relationship looks like because I feel like I'm
[58:57] Speaker 3: actually going to be able to enter it as the fullest,
[59:01] Speaker 3: you know, a version of myself, the soft and the fire,
[59:05] Speaker 3: you know. And I wouldn't have never been able to
[59:09] Speaker 3: do that had I not been single. Mm.
[59:12] Speaker 2: I love that.
[59:13] Speaker 1: It's beautiful and it feels very cool again when things
[59:17] Speaker 1: come at the right moment that you're having this exact
[59:20] Speaker 1: experience when this book is being born out into the world.
[59:23] Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it doesn't feel coincidental to me.
[59:27] Speaker 3: Well, what's crazy is like when I wrote the book,
[59:31] Speaker 3: I was in a relationship, and the book has come
[59:35] Speaker 3: out when I'm not in a relationship. So it's like
[59:39] Speaker 3: I really am the person who is putting her money
[59:42] Speaker 3: where her mouth is. And like, speaking from experience and
[59:45] Speaker 3: I am the reader, so yeah, it's interesting.
[59:48] Speaker 1: I am having the best time talking with Sarah Shahu today.
[59:52] Speaker 1: Join us for part two.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.