# Eric Ries on why "bad governance" outperforms, the case against shareholder primacy, and AI's Chernobyl moment

An episode of [Summation with Auren Hoffman](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1570644971), 14 Apr 2026, 59 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1783651/episodes/19009960-eric-ries-on-why-bad-governance-outperforms-the-case-against-shareholder-primacy-and-ai-s-chernobyl-moment.mp3

Eric Ries created the Lean Startup methodology and authored the bestselling book of the same name, which has sold over a million copies. He's also the founder and executive chairman of the Long-Term Stock Exchange, the co-founder of Answer AI (an AI R&D lab), and the author of the upcoming book Incorruptible, releasing May 26th. In this episode of Summation, Eric and Auren discuss: • why "bad governance" companies have outperformed "good governance" since 2008 • financial gravity - the invisible force that bends companies away from their mission • the foundation-controlled blueprint behind Novo Nordisk, IKEA, and Zeiss • why vibe coding is headed for its Chernobyl moment You can find Auren Hoffman on X at @auren and Eric Ries on X at @ericries

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.