# New Discovery in Turkey Reveals Mankind’s True Timeline with Matt Lacroix

An episode of [Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1560904383), 7 Sep 2026, 1 h 57 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/74898250/bonus_mondays_nls_473.mp3

BONUS MONDAYS: In the mystical dance of the cosmos, where ancient civilizations leave their enigmatic footprints, today's episode brings back Matt Lacroix. With his profound insights and relentless curiosity, Matt shares a journey that transcends time and space, weaving through the lost chapters of human history.From the moment Matt Lacroix steps into the studio, there's an air of excitement and anticipation. His passion for uncovering the hidden truths of ancient civilizations is palpable. "Your show was pivotal in my life," he reveals, setting the tone for a conversation that promises to unravel mysteries and ignite the imagination.Matt's recent expedition to Turkey has unearthed astonishing discoveries. Among these is a site known as Ionos Legacy, which he describes as potentially one of the most holy temples on Earth. "Once the world understands what that temple is and how old it is, it will be one of the most significant pilgrimage sites," he asserts. The implications of such a discovery are profound, challenging our understanding of history and spirituality.In the heart of Eastern Turkey, Matt explored symbols and stonework that echo those found in Peru, Bolivia, Saudi Arabia, and Cambodia. These connections suggest a global network of ancient cultures that shared knowledge and possibly even spiritual practices. One of the most striking finds is the depiction of the first chalice and the first cross, intricately carved and eerily similar to symbols used by the Knights Templar and in the Vatican.The conversation delves deeper into the significance of these symbols and their potential origins. Matt's research suggests that these ancient sites, with their sophisticated stonework and enigmatic symbols, were centers of spiritual enlightenment. He draws parallels between these symbols and those found in other ancient cultures, proposing that they might share a common source. "Are we finding this legacy that passed around the world?" he ponders, inviting listeners to consider a more interconnected ancient world.Matt's journey also led him to Shad Hous Tebe, where he discovered what he calls "ascension basalt pillars." These massive structures, still partially buried, hint at a level of architectural and spiritual sophistication that defies conventional explanations. The sheer size and precision of these pillars raise questions about the technological capabilities of the cultures that built them and the spiritual significance they might hold.As Matt recounts his explorations, he emphasizes the importance of reassessing our historical narratives. The sites he visited, like many others around the world, have been misidentified and misunderstood for decades. He argues that this is due in part to a failure to recognize the true origins and significance of these ancient structures. "Why would a culture switch from highly advanced stonework to primitive mud brick?" he asks, challenging the traditional archaeological interpretations. In the final moments of the conversation, Matt reflects on the broader implications of his discoveries. He suggests that these ancient sites hold not just historical but also spiritual significance, offering insights into the origins of religion, divinity, and human consciousness. By understanding these connections, we can gain a deeper appreciation of our shared heritage and the spiritual wisdom of our ancestors. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/next-level-soul-podcast-with-alex-ferrari--4858435/support. Take your spiritual journey to the next level with Next Level Soul TV — our dedicated streaming home for conscious storytelling and soulful transformation. Experience exclusive programs, original series, movies, tv shows, workshops, audiobooks, meditations, and a growing library of inspiring content created to elevate, heal, and awaken. Begin your membership or explore our free titles here: https://www.nextlevelsoul.tv

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep
[0:03] Speaker 1: dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,
[0:07] Speaker 1: and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host,
[0:11] Speaker 1: Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the
[0:13] Speaker 1: world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to
[0:18] Speaker 1: illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that
[0:23] Speaker 1: truly matter. Why are we here? Where are we going?
[0:27] Speaker 1: And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and
[0:30] Speaker 1: our consciousness to the next level? This is a space
[0:33] Speaker 1: for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember
[0:38] Speaker 1: who you really are. So take a deep breath, open
[0:42] Speaker 1: your mind, and prepare to step into your next level soul. Now,
[0:47] Speaker 1: if you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the
[0:49] Speaker 1: next level, explore Next Level Soul TV, our streaming platform
[0:53] Speaker 1: filled with exclusive movies, docs, original shows, transformative series, guided meditations,
[0:59] Speaker 1: channeling sessions, audiobooks, and deep spiritual teachings you won't find
[1:04] Speaker 1: anywhere else. New content drops every week, helping you expand
[1:08] Speaker 1: your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your
[1:11] Speaker 1: journey today at nextlevelsoul.tv. The views, opinions, and statements expressed
[1:18] Speaker 1: by our guests are their own and do not necessarily
[1:21] Speaker 1: reflect the beliefs or positions of Next Level Soul, its host,
[1:25] Speaker 1: or any of the companies they represent. Now let's dive
[1:28] Speaker 1: in to today's episode. I'd like to welcome back to
[1:32] Speaker 1: the show, returning champion, Matt LaCroix. How you doing, Matt?
[1:34] Speaker 2: How you doing, Alex? I love being in the studio.
[1:36] Speaker 2: This is beautiful what you've done with this.
[1:38] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, man. I appreciate that. I appreciate it.
[1:40] Speaker 1: Thank you for coming, trekking all the way down here
[1:43] Speaker 1: to Next Level Soul Studios. I really, really appreciate it.
[1:45] Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this conversation. Our last conversation
[1:47] Speaker 1: did pretty well.
[1:48] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:50] Speaker 1: And you have a story about what happened to you
[1:51] Speaker 1: after that show. What happened?
[1:53] Speaker 2: I do. I guess it would be really good to
[1:54] Speaker 2: share that, is that your show... was pretty pivotal in
[1:58] Speaker 2: my life. And I mean, just beyond even reaching other
[2:01] Speaker 2: individuals and helping, you know, show them knowledge, give them
[2:05] Speaker 2: knowledge and provide the information. But in my life, I
[2:08] Speaker 2: was looking for a pathway to do this full time
[2:11] Speaker 2: as my career, not having to work another job and
[2:14] Speaker 2: making ancient civilizations, lost civilizations, my core of all my time.
[2:20] Speaker 2: And Your show was how a very, very important business
[2:23] Speaker 2: partner and investor and very, very good friend, Martin Young,
[2:28] Speaker 2: ended up finding me through your show and then transformed
[2:32] Speaker 2: my life really subsequently after that to allow for this
[2:36] Speaker 2: huge documentary to really come to fruition, as well as
[2:40] Speaker 2: scouting trips and expeditions. And now it's turned into a massive,
[2:44] Speaker 2: massive team and group of people involved in going to
[2:48] Speaker 2: these incredible sites, especially in Eastern Turkey and really illuminating
[2:52] Speaker 2: this lost chapter of our history. So I have to say,
[2:55] Speaker 2: you know, without you, Alex, I don't think I would
[2:57] Speaker 2: be there. So I truly appreciate it.
[2:59] Speaker 1: Oh man, thank you so much. That's humbling to hear, man.
[3:02] Speaker 1: I am just a humble podcaster doing the good Lord's work.
[3:08] Speaker 1: But I appreciate it, man. Thanks for sharing that story.
[3:11] Speaker 1: So you just got back from Turkey and you discovered
[3:14] Speaker 1: a few things. You showed me a few images of
[3:17] Speaker 1: what you saw. So some cool, very cool stuff that
[3:20] Speaker 1: no one's really been talking about or seeing. What did
[3:23] Speaker 1: you find over there?
[3:24] Speaker 2: So we visited, I guess we'll say three primary sites.
[3:27] Speaker 2: There was some other subsequent smaller places we went to,
[3:30] Speaker 2: but three primary sites that we went to around Lake
[3:33] Speaker 2: Vaughan in Eastern Turkey, an area that used to be
[3:36] Speaker 2: ancient Armenia back before the 1930s. It was an ancient land,
[3:41] Speaker 2: you know, King Haik and this whole lineage that potentially
[3:45] Speaker 2: was mysterious that goes back to lineages that people you know,
[3:48] Speaker 2: were relating to like ancient, almost pre-Christian Mesopotamian connections. So
[3:54] Speaker 2: we went there and we were exploring the sites that
[3:57] Speaker 2: have really become, I guess, the core of my research
[4:01] Speaker 2: and what I'm doing, which isn't really just Turkey because
[4:04] Speaker 2: the symbols and the stonework and a lot of what
[4:06] Speaker 2: we see, we then find a lot of other places
[4:09] Speaker 2: in the world, such as in Peru, Ollantaytambo, for instance.
[4:14] Speaker 2: as well as like Tiwanaku and Pumapunku in Bolivia, and
[4:17] Speaker 2: then even places like Saudi Arabia, as well as like
[4:20] Speaker 2: Angkor Thom in Cambodia. We're finding these symbols and these
[4:25] Speaker 2: ancient structures that seem to have connections around the world.
[4:28] Speaker 2: So we visited, the three sites we visited, the primary was,
[4:31] Speaker 2: of course, Ionis Kalesi, which Ionis Legacy is the name
[4:35] Speaker 2: of my company, after that unbelievably incredible temple that Once
[4:39] Speaker 2: the world finally understands what that temple is and how
[4:43] Speaker 2: old it is and the symbols, I think it'll be
[4:45] Speaker 2: one of the most holy temples on earth in the future.
[4:48] Speaker 2: One of these things where we have a lot of
[4:49] Speaker 2: people taking pilgrimages to Jerusalem and Mecca, I think that
[4:54] Speaker 2: this will be on that list in the future.
[4:57] Speaker 1: Why would you say that word holy is interesting to me?
[5:00] Speaker 1: What's holy about this place?
[5:01] Speaker 2: Holy was a very specific word I used for that
[5:03] Speaker 2: because what we find are depictions of what I believe
[5:06] Speaker 2: is the first chalice and the first cross ever. But
[5:10] Speaker 2: not a cross that's just something scratched into a wall. Beautifully,
[5:14] Speaker 2: beautifully laser-cut almost crosses in this antecite at Ionis that
[5:20] Speaker 2: is identical to the same cross we see in the
[5:24] Speaker 2: Knights Templar called the Red Cross that we also find
[5:26] Speaker 2: in the Vatican and the Pope. The non-Christian cross is
[5:30] Speaker 2: the same thing we seem to find the origins back
[5:33] Speaker 2: to this point, which really brings up a lot of
[5:35] Speaker 2: questions on whether or not they knew about this site
[5:39] Speaker 2: somehow far, far back in time at least knew about
[5:42] Speaker 2: this cross. But the more that I've studied ancient Mesopotamian
[5:46] Speaker 2: history and history around the world of this and using individuals,
[5:50] Speaker 2: religious scholars like Paul Wallace, who's a big part of
[5:53] Speaker 2: this expedition and this documentary, we're really tracing that question
[5:57] Speaker 2: of whether or not the Genesis origins of the real cross,
[6:03] Speaker 2: the origins of it that we see around the world
[6:05] Speaker 2: came from Ionis. Hmm. And that is a huge, huge
[6:09] Speaker 2: implications on history and even religion itself and teaching us about, well,
[6:14] Speaker 2: what is the origins of religion and divinity and spirituality
[6:18] Speaker 2: and consciousness and humanity? And are we finding this legacy
[6:24] Speaker 2: that had passed around the world that became the core
[6:26] Speaker 2: of nearly every ancient culture around the world, especially the
[6:29] Speaker 2: truly ancient ones, the ones that are older than were
[6:32] Speaker 2: traditionally shown? And that was one site. And of course,
[6:36] Speaker 2: that's kind of the centerpiece of it. But there's also
[6:39] Speaker 2: Shavuos Tepe, which I showed you those incredible, what I'm
[6:41] Speaker 2: calling ascension basalt pillars. They were still sticking out of
[6:46] Speaker 2: the ground, not even excavated. That was incredible to see
[6:49] Speaker 2: that because I knew there was at least one or
[6:52] Speaker 2: two of them there. I had seen on some Google images.
[6:55] Speaker 2: I had been searching around on those.
[6:57] Speaker 1: And so.
[6:58] Speaker 2: I literally like almost, I would say I kind of
[7:00] Speaker 2: ran to that spot to try to see if they,
[7:02] Speaker 2: oh my God, are they really still there? Not, one
[7:05] Speaker 2: of the things that was lost on me was just
[7:07] Speaker 2: how big they are.
[7:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the weight on those things?
[7:09] Speaker 2: Well, they were well over a ton, which made me
[7:11] Speaker 2: feel better knowing that that's why no one's taken them yet.
[7:15] Speaker 2: Keeping them there, you would have to have some kind
[7:19] Speaker 2: of mechanical equipment to move them.
[7:21] Speaker 1: And then transport them, because they're not next to the highway.
[7:25] Speaker 2: No, it's up on a mountain, a hill. You can
[7:29] Speaker 2: drive and you have to walk up to. And that
[7:31] Speaker 2: was the second site. And then the third one that
[7:33] Speaker 2: I showed you that is just absolutely mind-blowing, especially if
[7:36] Speaker 2: you consider the state of archaeological sites in the world,
[7:39] Speaker 2: would be Kefkalesi. You know, a place where you have
[7:42] Speaker 2: to literally hike like two miles, rugged territory in the
[7:46] Speaker 2: mountains up into this site that has been less than
[7:50] Speaker 2: 5% excavated. Less than 5%. everyone's hollering about Gobekli Tepe
[7:55] Speaker 2: and being only a certain amount excavated. I think that's
[7:58] Speaker 2: far more excavated than this is, especially when you look
[8:00] Speaker 2: at images of it and you see these giant basalt
[8:04] Speaker 2: pillars and blocks just kind of sticking out of the ground.
[8:06] Speaker 2: It looks like if you were, to me, it's like
[8:10] Speaker 2: some kind of a sci-fi novel or something. Like you
[8:12] Speaker 2: went to a planet somewhere and you found the ruins
[8:15] Speaker 2: of an ancient civilization that had never been touched, like
[8:18] Speaker 2: sitting there. That's what this felt like. It's a place
[8:21] Speaker 2: that is seemingly lost in time, forgotten by the world.
[8:25] Speaker 1: And when was it found?
[8:26] Speaker 2: It was excavated in the late 1950s, early 1960s, and
[8:30] Speaker 2: then really never touched ever again.
[8:32] Speaker 1: And no one talks about it.
[8:33] Speaker 2: And nobody talks about it. The famous Kef Box Relief,
[8:37] Speaker 2: known as Ajijavez Relief also, but it came from Kef Temple.
[8:41] Speaker 2: That is something that I've been bringing a lot of
[8:44] Speaker 2: attention online with, which is being housed in Ankara. But
[8:48] Speaker 2: I always like to tell this story, Alex, is that
[8:50] Speaker 2: when they first excavated this giant basalt box. It's a
[8:54] Speaker 2: box relief. It's like three feet by three feet by
[8:57] Speaker 2: four feet. It's huge. Laser-cut symbols with the importance of
[9:02] Speaker 2: what is shown on that, which of course we can
[9:04] Speaker 2: talk about, but irregardless of what's shown on that, and
[9:08] Speaker 2: it's incredible, and it's highly sophisticated and enigmatic, but when
[9:12] Speaker 2: that was found, not related to the archaeologists doing it,
[9:17] Speaker 2: but it was ultimately decided by somebody to instead of
[9:21] Speaker 2: putting it in a museum or putting it somewhere special,
[9:23] Speaker 2: it stayed in an outdoor garden for 20 years, just
[9:27] Speaker 2: sitting there obscure. Very few people even knowing about it.
[9:30] Speaker 2: And of course, at some point, it got a little
[9:32] Speaker 2: bit more attention to end up in the Ankara Museum
[9:34] Speaker 2: right now, the Anatolian History Museum in Ankara, Turkey, which
[9:38] Speaker 2: is one of the sites, one of the places that
[9:40] Speaker 2: we will be going on the full documentary to go
[9:43] Speaker 2: and see that. But the point I'm making is that
[9:47] Speaker 2: that incredible artifact and these sites were partially excavated and
[9:52] Speaker 2: then just seemingly abandoned. Now, is that because of a
[9:56] Speaker 2: lack of funding, a lack of interest, or I would
[9:59] Speaker 2: even give a much bigger factor than that. Even beyond that,
[10:02] Speaker 2: I would say it's because of a misidentification of who
[10:06] Speaker 2: the original builders were, which then downplayed the significance of
[10:10] Speaker 2: what these sites are.
[10:11] Speaker 1: Okay.
[10:13] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[10:19] Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
[10:23] Speaker 2: So if the archaeologists, the conventional archaeologists right now that
[10:27] Speaker 2: have excavated them, and there's been some excellent ones, and
[10:30] Speaker 2: I'm not putting them down for this. There's other levels
[10:32] Speaker 2: of spheres of influence, we'll call them, that determine a
[10:37] Speaker 2: lot of where antiquities go, how they're identified, things like that.
[10:41] Speaker 2: Those archaeologists that have identified and previously because of other
[10:45] Speaker 2: archaeologists that have laid down a foundation, like in Egypt,
[10:48] Speaker 2: about who built what, when it was done. Well, when
[10:51] Speaker 2: they came along and they found Kef in Shavuos Tepe,
[10:55] Speaker 2: they found them almost at the same time. And on
[10:58] Speaker 2: us was later. They found them both at the same
[11:00] Speaker 2: time in the late 1950s, early 1960s. And they were
[11:03] Speaker 2: convinced that they were part of the Urartu civilization, which
[11:07] Speaker 2: existed around 2,800 to 3,000 years ago. for some context
[11:12] Speaker 2: for people. The Urartian or Urartu civilization was a very
[11:17] Speaker 2: warlike culture, very similar to like the Assyrians of Iraq,
[11:23] Speaker 2: a culture that had some interest in knowledge, but seemed
[11:28] Speaker 2: like a lot of their culture was focused on being
[11:31] Speaker 2: an empire and being at war at times and expanding
[11:36] Speaker 2: and doing different things that weren't really related to more spiritual.
[11:40] Speaker 1: Yes, more materialistic. More materialistic.
[11:43] Speaker 2: So when archaeologists have studied the Urartu civilization, they got
[11:47] Speaker 2: a pretty good understanding of what they're like, right? They
[11:50] Speaker 2: were an Iron Age culture. They built a lot of
[11:53] Speaker 2: iron type of helmets and spears. And what they built
[11:57] Speaker 2: is very clear was a lot of warlike things. And
[12:00] Speaker 2: they took the symbols, the symbols of the gods that
[12:04] Speaker 2: were from the previous culture, and they turned them into
[12:07] Speaker 2: war gods. And I'm telling you all this as a
[12:11] Speaker 2: frame of reference here for how something like this could happen.
[12:15] Speaker 2: So you have a culture that's a war culture. They
[12:17] Speaker 2: think they're all war gods. Then they believe that the
[12:22] Speaker 2: symbols are related to symbols that they erred to would use,
[12:26] Speaker 2: like spears and lances and things in war, right? So
[12:30] Speaker 2: when they came across the Kefkalesi box relief, they see
[12:34] Speaker 2: all these icons on there and they think, well, kind
[12:37] Speaker 2: of even said that, like, this is sort of how
[12:39] Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing in the archaeological reports. Like, well, it really
[12:43] Speaker 2: looks like a sphere from, like, the Tree of Life,
[12:46] Speaker 2: like a branch or a bud from the Tree of Life.
[12:48] Speaker 2: But a previous archaeologist that is the great, you know,
[12:54] Speaker 2: the great hero of archaeology for Turkey and the Anatolia history,
[12:59] Speaker 2: Bernie is his name. B-U-R-N-E-Y. He, Bernie identified these as
[13:05] Speaker 2: being lances and spears. So I guess they're lances and spears.
[13:10] Speaker 2: Imagine if you have spiritual teachings that are at the
[13:14] Speaker 2: core of everything, right? You know as well as I
[13:17] Speaker 2: do the pine cone and the tree of life symbol
[13:20] Speaker 2: we see all throughout ancient Sumer and around the world.
[13:22] Speaker 2: It's this core and yet we have it here and
[13:25] Speaker 2: it's ignored because the Urartu are supposed to be the
[13:27] Speaker 2: ones that built it. And Well, those look kind of
[13:31] Speaker 2: like lances and spears a little bit. So they're passing
[13:34] Speaker 2: the knowledge of war? No. Could not be further from that,
[13:39] Speaker 2: in my opinion. In fact, so that's the reason why
[13:42] Speaker 2: these things, I think, went completely unnoticed, is that it
[13:46] Speaker 2: was like, oh, these are war symbols. These are not important.
[13:49] Speaker 2: This is the Urartu culture of 3,000 years ago, right?
[13:55] Speaker 2: We don't know why they built out of basalt and
[13:57] Speaker 2: andesite on the bottom that was highly sophisticated and precise.
[14:01] Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden they built with brick.
[14:04] Speaker 2: They built with mud brick and crude stone. Why would
[14:08] Speaker 2: a culture switch? Why would they go from being highly
[14:12] Speaker 2: advanced and sophisticated and building the most beautiful stone and
[14:15] Speaker 2: foundations and then build very primitive work on top of it?
[14:18] Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense.
[14:20] Speaker 1: But that's kind of what happens throughout antiquity. It happens
[14:24] Speaker 1: a lot in Mesoamerica. A lot of those pyramids were
[14:28] Speaker 1: built upon other pyramids, upon other pyramids. Even in Egypt,
[14:30] Speaker 1: they started off with the Great Pyramid, and correct me
[14:33] Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, which is as perfect as could be,
[14:35] Speaker 1: but then they got worse as time went on, the
[14:39] Speaker 1: construction amount. You showed me an image of these beautifully
[14:43] Speaker 1: designed giant megalithic foundations, and then literally the mud brick
[14:49] Speaker 1: on top of it. And it's kind of like you've
[14:51] Speaker 1: cut into the side of a mountain and they just
[14:53] Speaker 1: happen to be there. And so you can see almost
[14:55] Speaker 1: as a geological- Like a tree, like layers of a tree.
[14:57] Speaker 1: Like a geological thing, like, oh, this is when this happened.
[15:01] Speaker 1: You can literally see the foundation being very sophisticated. I mean, extremely.
[15:06] Speaker 1: And then you got basic like mud brick layers.
[15:09] Speaker 2: What is that?
[15:10] Speaker 1: What culture was that?
[15:11] Speaker 2: That's the Urartu culture. So the Urartu culture is the
[15:15] Speaker 2: ones who We have to remember, well, what kind of
[15:18] Speaker 2: culture were they? They were an Iron Age culture. They
[15:21] Speaker 2: only had specific tools and means available to them. Like,
[15:26] Speaker 2: if you were going to create an incredible temple and, like,
[15:30] Speaker 2: those megalithic walls, you would have to have supreme craftsmen, okay,
[15:35] Speaker 2: of the best of your culture. And you have to
[15:36] Speaker 2: spend an enormous amount of time and resources to make that.
[15:40] Speaker 2: The Urartu culture didn't have that. They didn't have those means. Again,
[15:45] Speaker 2: their focus was mostly on empire. They were not like that.
[15:48] Speaker 2: So it makes sense when we look at, well, they
[15:51] Speaker 2: were incorporating these existing structures because they knew they were important,
[15:56] Speaker 2: and they somewhat knew the legacy of what was there,
[15:59] Speaker 2: and they were building right on top of them. And,
[16:01] Speaker 2: of course, we see that around the world. But if
[16:03] Speaker 2: they could have built with andesite and basalt, they would have,
[16:06] Speaker 2: and they clearly didn't, and they couldn't. And that's because
[16:09] Speaker 2: of the limitations of what they had available to them. Now,
[16:13] Speaker 2: I think the lens of this that might help people
[16:16] Speaker 2: is let's look at the Kali Yuga cycles. You're very
[16:18] Speaker 2: familiar with the Kali Yuga cycles. And it talks about
[16:21] Speaker 2: how there's these cycles of, you could call them levels
[16:25] Speaker 2: of consciousness in civilizations.
[16:28] Speaker 1: 24,000 years, yeah.
[16:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's based on this cycle, which mimics like the
[16:32] Speaker 2: great year. And it's this ebb and flow of rising
[16:36] Speaker 2: up to reach a supreme place, a golden age, and
[16:39] Speaker 2: then being knocked back down, right? To eventually as primitive
[16:43] Speaker 2: as an iron age, and then a bronze age, and
[16:45] Speaker 2: then a silver, and then you're back up to a
[16:47] Speaker 2: golden age. And it's this cycle of rising and falling.
[16:52] Speaker 2: And it looks like this plays into that extremely well,
[16:56] Speaker 2: because we find catastrophic damage on these sites. Catastrophic. In fact,
[17:03] Speaker 2: we're looking at whether or not Kefkalesi might have some
[17:07] Speaker 2: of the greatest amount of vitrification damage of any site
[17:12] Speaker 2: in the world. Vitrification is a type of melting of
[17:15] Speaker 2: the stone. And it's extremely rare. It has to do with,
[17:19] Speaker 2: number one, those stones have to have been there so
[17:22] Speaker 2: long that that they were able to be influenced by
[17:26] Speaker 2: these events. Because these events don't happen very often. These
[17:29] Speaker 2: events are, for instance, we haven't had, in my opinion,
[17:32] Speaker 2: we haven't had any of these events in at least 12,000 years.
[17:35] Speaker 1: Not like this. Like the Younger Dryas. Exactly.
[17:37] Speaker 2: And that's when I believe that these events occurred was
[17:40] Speaker 2: the Younger Dryas somewhere around 12,000 years ago. We'll just
[17:44] Speaker 2: call it a figure like that. Because it started around 14,500
[17:47] Speaker 2: years ago and went through 11,600 years ago. So it's
[17:51] Speaker 2: this totality of different events that was significant enough to
[17:55] Speaker 2: completely destroy the civilization, wipe them out. And then whatever
[18:00] Speaker 2: survivors might have came up, came about, this seems like
[18:03] Speaker 2: there was a rebuilding attempt at some of them. And
[18:06] Speaker 2: then they were gone. And then thousands of years went
[18:10] Speaker 2: by thousands of years. And then the, the, the Uratu
[18:13] Speaker 2: civilization emerges out of this region and then finds them all.
[18:18] Speaker 2: And then it's like, wow, this, And then it builds
[18:20] Speaker 2: right on top of them. And they subsequently call them Kalesis.
[18:24] Speaker 1: Okay.
[18:26] Speaker 2: Do you know what the word Kalesi means? What does
[18:27] Speaker 2: that mean? Kalesi means fortress. So an ancient temple of
[18:33] Speaker 2: spiritual enlightenment, the Urtu civilization turns them into castles and fortresses.
[18:39] Speaker 2: And so then archaeologists come through like, oh, they're castles.
[18:43] Speaker 2: So the whole mindset on all these locations has been
[18:47] Speaker 2: so skewed that it's That's why they haven't been looked
[18:51] Speaker 2: at as significant because they're like, oh, they're just the
[18:53] Speaker 2: Urtu culture and they're not really like, it's not really
[18:56] Speaker 2: something to look at because, you know, they wouldn't have
[18:58] Speaker 2: been the ones to leave the greatest symbols and megalithic
[19:03] Speaker 2: building we've ever seen behind. And so let's kind of
[19:05] Speaker 2: ignore them. And that's why they've remained somewhat, I would say,
[19:11] Speaker 2: almost under the radar for over 50 years, which is
[19:14] Speaker 2: incredibly wild to think about.
[19:15] Speaker 1: Would you agree that wiping out as part of what
[19:19] Speaker 1: we do, as part of what we do in the
[19:23] Speaker 1: Yuga cycles, as what is being done to us, that
[19:25] Speaker 1: when Atlantis went down, which was about the beginning of
[19:30] Speaker 1: the end of the.
[19:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, end of Younger Dryas.
[19:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, the end of that time period, as part of
[19:35] Speaker 1: the plan, none of that information can survive.
[19:38] Speaker 2: No.
[19:38] Speaker 1: It has to go hidden, because if that information survives...
[19:42] Speaker 1: it knocks out what we're supposed to be doing. So
[19:45] Speaker 1: it goes all the way down.
[19:46] Speaker 2: It was supposed to be lost.
[19:47] Speaker 1: Right. And from my understanding, the Dark Ages is at
[19:49] Speaker 1: the bottom. That's the worst.
[19:50] Speaker 2: Right.
[19:51] Speaker 1: That's 600 years to 1,000.
[19:52] Speaker 2: Medieval ages where we were just animals.
[19:54] Speaker 1: Just absolute savages. And that's the rise of religion. You
[19:56] Speaker 1: need a religion to control the savages.
[19:59] Speaker 2: Fighting against each other.
[20:00] Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm like, if you do that, you're going to
[20:01] Speaker 1: go to hell. And these very controlling ideas and dogmas.
[20:05] Speaker 1: because you needed that.
[20:06] Speaker 2: And then they turned it into some of the worst
[20:07] Speaker 2: of the- Well.
[20:08] Speaker 1: That's a whole other conversation. That's a whole other podcast
[20:12] Speaker 1: without question. But then it's starting to come up and
[20:15] Speaker 1: you can just literally see how we've evolved and the
[20:19] Speaker 1: speed that we're evolving with from 1776 to today, when
[20:24] Speaker 1: we became independent as a country in the United States
[20:28] Speaker 1: to where we are now. That's what, 200 and something years?
[20:31] Speaker 2: That's not- I know.
[20:32] Speaker 1: It's 300 years. That's nothing. That's nothing. It's nothing.
[20:36] Speaker 2: I know.
[20:37] Speaker 1: And look, just in our lifetime, what has changed?
[20:43] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[20:49] Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
[20:53] Speaker 1: Just, I mean, just in our lifetime. I mean, I
[20:55] Speaker 1: was around before remote controls.
[20:57] Speaker 2: I remember, I mean, everything was just like VHSs on,
[21:00] Speaker 2: you know.
[21:01] Speaker 1: With TVs and cassettes. I'm much older than you, sir.
[21:04] Speaker 2: So I was around when there was all, like there was,
[21:06] Speaker 2: it was just, I was- The internet was barely even
[21:08] Speaker 2: doing anything. Like when I was started, when I was young.
[21:11] Speaker 1: When I was young, the internet was created only in
[21:16] Speaker 1: the military. And it was, you know, the computers filled
[21:19] Speaker 1: this room. Yeah, no. That was a computer.
[21:22] Speaker 2: And it was like eight megs. A whole room, yeah.
[21:23] Speaker 1: Eight megs was this entire room. So from there to this.
[21:28] Speaker 1: I know. To have every bit of information that you
[21:32] Speaker 1: want in the world at your fingertips.
[21:34] Speaker 2: Talk about acceleration, huh? Oh, yeah.
[21:35] Speaker 1: And then also have an AI now.
[21:37] Speaker 2: Right.
[21:37] Speaker 1: Who answers questions you have conversations with. That's basically in
[21:40] Speaker 1: its infancy still.
[21:41] Speaker 2: It's an acceleration.
[21:43] Speaker 1: So it's super fast. So in five years where we're
[21:46] Speaker 1: gonna be. So if you just look at it from
[21:49] Speaker 1: a historical lens, there's hundreds, thousands of years. Everything was here.
[21:55] Speaker 1: All the knowledge was around. It just hadn't been discovered yet.
[21:58] Speaker 1: Radio waves, microwaves.
[21:59] Speaker 2: We weren't ready for it yet.
[22:00] Speaker 1: We weren't ready on a conscious level. That's where we
[22:04] Speaker 1: go back to the yugas. Our consciousness as humanity has
[22:07] Speaker 1: not gotten to a level where we can handle that.
[22:09] Speaker 1: Because I always use this example. Imagine if Alexander the
[22:11] Speaker 1: Great had machine guns or a rocket launcher. Or, God forbid,
[22:15] Speaker 1: a nuke. This planet would have been destroyed multiple times already.
[22:18] Speaker 1: Because that humanity was not prepared to handle that kind
[22:23] Speaker 1: of knowledge.
[22:24] Speaker 2: I'd like to think that he was a better man
[22:25] Speaker 2: than that, though. But you know what I mean.
[22:29] Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. Any gun gets conned
[22:30] Speaker 1: with machine guns. Any of them back in the day,
[22:35] Speaker 1: if they would have those kind of mass... They already
[22:38] Speaker 1: controlled the world. They already killed 40 million. Can you imagine?
[22:41] Speaker 1: They all just had machine guns. It would have been insane.
[22:44] Speaker 1: They wouldn't have been ready for that. We were barely
[22:46] Speaker 1: ready for the technology we had back then. I know.
[22:48] Speaker 1: Without destroying ourselves. So all of that is just fascinating
[22:51] Speaker 1: to watch that. Now, I wanted to ask you, you've
[22:56] Speaker 1: mentioned this in other shows, and I want you to
[22:57] Speaker 1: kind of reiterate this. Out of all of humanity's ancient knowledge,
[23:02] Speaker 1: how much do you think that's out there right now? Underground,
[23:05] Speaker 1: in the ocean... Things that have been discovered, how much
[23:08] Speaker 1: of this ancient knowledge, scrolls, all that stuff, has been
[23:11] Speaker 1: discovered in your opinion? And how much do we have
[23:14] Speaker 1: actual access to? And whatever has been discovered, where is
[23:17] Speaker 1: it if we don't have it?
[23:19] Speaker 2: I guess that falls into three camps. The first camp
[23:22] Speaker 2: is how much of it was destroyed over time, which
[23:28] Speaker 2: is very easy to do. I mean, if anything, it's
[23:31] Speaker 2: far easier to lose things than preserve them based on
[23:34] Speaker 2: the elements and disasters and even um even nomadic groups
[23:39] Speaker 2: and other groups that move along and find things like
[23:42] Speaker 2: oh i can use that to build into my house
[23:44] Speaker 2: i'll go take some of these out and oh i
[23:46] Speaker 2: found something here pillaging things destroying things um things like
[23:50] Speaker 2: the roman empire going through in the crusades and and
[23:53] Speaker 2: destroying anything that was pre-christian burning them i mean look
[23:57] Speaker 2: at for instance um the Kikistadors going into the Maya
[24:01] Speaker 2: and Aztec, basically destroying 99% of like everything, burning it
[24:06] Speaker 2: and then whatever remained really bringing back and keeping. Like
[24:10] Speaker 2: give me an example. Paul Wallace and I talk about this.
[24:12] Speaker 2: The Popol Vuh is like one of the only things
[24:14] Speaker 2: that survived in the ancient Maya. And that was only
[24:17] Speaker 2: because one of the missionaries there cared about the people's
[24:22] Speaker 2: story and actually wrote down what they told him. The
[24:26] Speaker 2: Popol Vuh wasn't even based on an original document. It
[24:29] Speaker 2: was like they had to try to tell him to
[24:32] Speaker 2: write it down because the Spanish had already pretty much
[24:34] Speaker 2: destroyed everything else. Now, what about the things that didn't
[24:37] Speaker 2: get destroyed? I think that there's a significant amount of
[24:42] Speaker 2: ancient teachings, maybe cuneiform tablets, Mayan teachings, Egyptian, various different
[24:48] Speaker 2: things from around the world that, of course, are being
[24:51] Speaker 2: housed in a place like the Vatican Archive and in
[24:54] Speaker 2: a lot of other private collections, private collections that remain
[24:58] Speaker 2: somewhat obscure, where we don't have access to. Let me
[25:02] Speaker 2: give you an example. When they found the Royal Ashurbanipal
[25:06] Speaker 2: Library in 1849 in ancient Nineveh, Iraq, one of the largest,
[25:10] Speaker 2: most significant ancient libraries in the world, it actually was
[25:15] Speaker 2: discussed as being potentially the greatest library ever amassed in history.
[25:22] Speaker 2: HG Wells actually called it the most precious source of
[25:25] Speaker 2: historical information in the world was that library. When they
[25:29] Speaker 2: found that, they found somewhere between 30 and 40,000 cuneiform tablets.
[25:36] Speaker 2: Now to this day, less than 500 have ever been translated.
[25:40] Speaker 2: Where's the rest of them? Does anybody care? Is there
[25:44] Speaker 2: any checks and balances here? Anybody wondering where VA 249 went?
[25:49] Speaker 2: We know where VA 243 went. What about VA 249?
[25:53] Speaker 2: I'm just making that up. But, like, 249 is real,
[25:56] Speaker 2: but 248, I mean, is real. But what I'm saying is, like,
[25:59] Speaker 2: there's no one checking this stuff. There's no one putting
[26:02] Speaker 2: together a catalog and organizing everything to keeping, oh, well,
[26:07] Speaker 2: all these tablets are all in the same place and organized.
[26:10] Speaker 2: We have a display in the British Museum called the
[26:13] Speaker 2: Ashurbanipal Library that contains... some of the primary, but what
[26:16] Speaker 2: about the rest of them? Does anybody care about what
[26:20] Speaker 2: all these most important ancient things that have ever been said,
[26:24] Speaker 2: where they are, who's translated them? That's what I mean
[26:27] Speaker 2: is that today we have a very poor organization of
[26:32] Speaker 2: important relics and important things that matter to us. We
[26:35] Speaker 2: don't have a global effort to organize and keep them
[26:38] Speaker 2: all somewhere where people can access them. The world should
[26:40] Speaker 2: have a database where They want to go in and
[26:43] Speaker 2: look up any ancient thing. It doesn't matter what it is.
[26:46] Speaker 2: There's an old Mayan catalog. There's an Aztec catalog. There's
[26:48] Speaker 2: an Olmec catalog, right? There's a Mesopotamian Sumerian catalog where
[26:52] Speaker 2: they can go and look. We don't have that. What
[26:55] Speaker 2: do you do if you want to find something? Well,
[26:57] Speaker 2: you heard of it in a book or someone wrote
[27:00] Speaker 2: about it. Then you go online. You're like, I want
[27:02] Speaker 2: to see the translation for the myth of Adapa. And
[27:05] Speaker 2: you go on and you find a bunch of different things.
[27:08] Speaker 2: You don't know where to look. You don't know who's
[27:10] Speaker 2: translated what. Some of them are mistranslated.
[27:14] Speaker 1: It's very difficult. It's a hodgepodge of everything.
[27:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like it's an impossible feat, or it's
[27:22] Speaker 2: made really impossible at that time for people to go
[27:26] Speaker 2: find these things. And let me give you an example
[27:28] Speaker 2: of that, Alex, because I'm not just going to say
[27:30] Speaker 2: that statement without backing it up. Before the expedition to Turkey...
[27:36] Speaker 2: One of the parts of the documentary that we filmed
[27:38] Speaker 2: was we went to Penn Museum in the Penn Archives
[27:41] Speaker 2: because what's there is a very, very important archeological paper
[27:44] Speaker 2: from 1931 when they had excavated and found an ancient
[27:48] Speaker 2: Sumerian city called Chirupac. And this whole paper documented how
[27:52] Speaker 2: there was like a five-foot alluvial flood layer right above
[27:58] Speaker 2: this civilization that matched up exactly how it's talked about,
[28:01] Speaker 2: how there was a great flood. The alluvial layer was sterile.
[28:04] Speaker 2: There was nothing in it. Right below it, this original
[28:07] Speaker 2: stratum one layer where the Sumerians were, most of the
[28:10] Speaker 2: things that were there were scattered and broken or gone,
[28:13] Speaker 2: like something had swept everything away. So it's starting to
[28:16] Speaker 2: match up with all those things. And so we went
[28:18] Speaker 2: to Penn and went through the archives and filmed it
[28:21] Speaker 2: as part of the documentary as part of the first
[28:23] Speaker 2: part of it before we do all the other parts.
[28:26] Speaker 2: And in the archive, you got a chance to look
[28:29] Speaker 2: at all the records and everything. And the second part
[28:32] Speaker 2: of it, though, was in the museum. And we go
[28:35] Speaker 2: in the museum and some people might not know, but
[28:39] Speaker 2: Penn Museum has one of the most important ancient Mesopotamian
[28:42] Speaker 2: collections in the world. here in the United States. And
[28:49] Speaker 2: it just so happens that with someone like me, who's
[28:51] Speaker 2: literally studied cuneiform tablets, like obsessively for over 15 years,
[28:56] Speaker 2: I was seeing tablets and things there that I'm like,
[28:59] Speaker 2: I know what that is. I knew the shape of it.
[29:01] Speaker 2: I've added to a million images. I've inserted it. What
[29:06] Speaker 2: was really startling to me was very, very important tablets
[29:10] Speaker 2: like eridogenesis.
[29:11] Speaker 1: Okay.
[29:12] Speaker 2: I saw it there. on the display with a generic
[29:17] Speaker 2: name of the flood story. Well, Alex, there's like six
[29:21] Speaker 2: different sets of tablets that talk about the flood story.
[29:24] Speaker 2: It didn't even have a name. And then next to
[29:27] Speaker 2: it was one of the versions of the Epic of
[29:28] Speaker 2: Gilgamesh and these other ones. There was a Sumerian kingless
[29:31] Speaker 2: version too. None of them had any names. None of
[29:34] Speaker 2: them did. They weren't even labeled. And I got into
[29:38] Speaker 2: a bit of a confrontation, conversation with the lead archaeologist there.
[29:46] Speaker 2: And he's a good man. And so I don't want
[29:48] Speaker 2: to put him down too much. But I was asking, well,
[29:52] Speaker 2: why doesn't Eridu Genesis, one of the most important tablets
[29:55] Speaker 2: ever written, how do you even have a label?
[29:58] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[30:04] Speaker 3: And now, back to the show.
[30:08] Speaker 2: And furthermore, I was with archaeologists on that, and some
[30:12] Speaker 2: of those archaeologists that specialize in ancient Mesopotamian history didn't
[30:17] Speaker 2: even know what it was either. So I happen to
[30:20] Speaker 2: recognize the tablet the way it looks because I've used
[30:22] Speaker 2: it so many times in my shows and different things.
[30:25] Speaker 2: But if an archeologist isn't gonna even recognize what it is,
[30:29] Speaker 2: how is anyone from the public ever gonna know what's there?
[30:33] Speaker 1: The thing is, and I've had archeologists on the show,
[30:37] Speaker 1: and I've had people that dance between the line of
[30:39] Speaker 1: where you go and where they are. And the thing
[30:42] Speaker 1: is is that there's really, to be honest, at least
[30:46] Speaker 1: the older generation, no interest.
[30:47] Speaker 2: No, there isn't. But that still doesn't justify things not
[30:53] Speaker 2: being labeled that are important. Agreed, 100%. I understand there's
[30:56] Speaker 2: not an outcry, right? So there's not like a bunch
[30:58] Speaker 2: of people, hey, where's the Erdogan Genesis tablet? I'm looking
[31:01] Speaker 2: for it. No, because nobody knows, obviously. But I find
[31:05] Speaker 2: it very interesting that something as important as that, and
[31:08] Speaker 2: it was the original version, by the way. A lot
[31:10] Speaker 2: of these tablets have versions that were written like in
[31:12] Speaker 2: Babylonian and Assyrian after in their copies of the original.
[31:16] Speaker 2: This is the original Eridogenesis tablet, Alex, sitting there without
[31:20] Speaker 2: a name or a label so that nobody would ever
[31:22] Speaker 2: know what it is, ever. It's like it could just disappear.
[31:25] Speaker 1: And no one would know.
[31:26] Speaker 2: And nobody would know. And here I am, like, I'm looking.
[31:29] Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, my God, there's the Eridogenesis tablet. And
[31:32] Speaker 2: I'm making all this noise and everything. But that's what
[31:35] Speaker 2: we're running up against is a world in which it
[31:40] Speaker 2: seems as though these important things have been, like these
[31:46] Speaker 2: temples in Eastern Turkey I just mentioned, or others, they've
[31:48] Speaker 2: just gone under the radar. They haven't got much attention,
[31:52] Speaker 2: people don't seem to care, and they almost disappeared until
[31:56] Speaker 2: individuals like myself were like, wait a minute, what have
[31:59] Speaker 2: we missed here? This is huge, right?
[32:02] Speaker 1: I think the audience, or excuse me, the public in general,
[32:05] Speaker 1: their interest in ancient history And Ancient Mysteries is massive.
[32:09] Speaker 2: It's getting huge.
[32:10] Speaker 1: If our numbers of our last interview and other interviews
[32:13] Speaker 1: that we've done and I've done on the show are
[32:15] Speaker 1: any indication, people are fascinated with this stuff.
[32:17] Speaker 2: Yes, they are.
[32:17] Speaker 1: Fascinated. And they're being more educated now than ever before. Yep. Ever,
[32:22] Speaker 1: ever before.
[32:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[32:23] Speaker 1: I wanted to go back to the Vatican for a
[32:25] Speaker 1: second because I had a chance to go to the
[32:26] Speaker 1: Vatican and I went to the museum. And as I'm
[32:29] Speaker 1: walking around... Yeah, I went to the Vatican Museum. It
[32:31] Speaker 1: was fascinating. I walked around and I just was like
[32:35] Speaker 1: almost disgusted. by the embarrassments of riches. There's so much.
[32:40] Speaker 1: I've never seen any museum have so many artifacts.
[32:44] Speaker 2: Like ancient stuff?
[32:45] Speaker 1: Oh, everything. Egypt, I mean, from every culture in the
[32:47] Speaker 1: world other than their own. It was just like this
[32:52] Speaker 1: thievery of, but it was so much. I mean, it's
[32:56] Speaker 1: obviously been stolen.
[32:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, pillaged, right?
[32:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously. I mean, the Egyptians didn't go, here you go. Like, no, no,
[33:02] Speaker 1: they didn't. It was all taken. And the British Museum's
[33:05] Speaker 1: another one. But, you know, the museums around the world,
[33:06] Speaker 1: let's not point anybody out. All of them have it.
[33:09] Speaker 1: But this one was just so much stuff, so much, like,
[33:13] Speaker 1: that they had, like, ancient heads, like, busts. Just– one
[33:19] Speaker 1: of those would be the main event of any museum
[33:22] Speaker 1: around the world.
[33:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[33:23] Speaker 1: They had 1,000 of them on– and like it was
[33:25] Speaker 1: just so much. It was absolutely amazing. So I was
[33:29] Speaker 1: thinking like if they have– this is what they're showing us. Right.
[33:33] Speaker 2: What are they not?
[33:33] Speaker 1: I cannot imagine what they have hidden.
[33:36] Speaker 2: Did you try to go in the archive?
[33:38] Speaker 1: No, I didn't even try.
[33:39] Speaker 2: You didn't try to like run and like– No, no, no.
[33:43] Speaker 1: There's no sign that says, here's to the archives. No,
[33:45] Speaker 1: it was just the museum, the Vatican Museum.
[33:47] Speaker 2: Hey, look, and then you run in.
[33:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, the Holy Grail. But I can
[33:54] Speaker 1: only imagine that they've been doing this since basically the
[33:58] Speaker 1: Roman times.
[33:59] Speaker 2: Yes.
[34:00] Speaker 1: Because I've always said this, it's almost embarrassing to me
[34:03] Speaker 1: how I just realized it when I was in Rome,
[34:06] Speaker 1: that it was the Roman Catholic Church. I had never
[34:08] Speaker 1: really thought about Rome.
[34:09] Speaker 2: Rome never died, Alex.
[34:10] Speaker 1: I understand that. They just– Rome– empire died, went right
[34:14] Speaker 1: into the Catholic Church. Constantine and all that stuff.
[34:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, it became the Byzantine Empire. They changed it around.
[34:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, everything. And then they all became– The Holy Roman Empire.
[34:21] Speaker 1: They all became Christian because this crazy rebel started causing crap.
[34:24] Speaker 2: Constantine was a bad dude. Yes.
[34:26] Speaker 1: Well, yes. But they changed it to Christianity because they
[34:30] Speaker 1: said– this Jesus thing's not going away. We got to
[34:33] Speaker 1: jump on the bandwagon here. Totally.
[34:34] Speaker 2: I mean, they were pagans before and they switched over
[34:36] Speaker 2: to becoming Christians.
[34:37] Speaker 1: Right. And then 400 years from there, they're not killing
[34:39] Speaker 1: people if you're not Christian. Exactly. But like a few
[34:42] Speaker 1: hundred years earlier, they're like.
[34:43] Speaker 2: They were killing people if they were Christian.
[34:45] Speaker 1: See what I mean? I mean, the Roman Empire, remember,
[34:49] Speaker 1: I was in the Colosseum. That's where they threw the
[34:51] Speaker 1: Christians to the tigers and to the lions. I mean,
[34:53] Speaker 1: that's what it was. So it was fascinating. And the
[34:57] Speaker 1: biggest thing I said when I was sitting, I was
[34:59] Speaker 1: standing right in the, in the middle of the Vatican
[35:01] Speaker 1: outside looking at St. Peter's and everything. I'm like, this
[35:04] Speaker 1: has nothing to do with Jesus.
[35:05] Speaker 2: No.
[35:06] Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with anything that that man ever said. No,
[35:09] Speaker 1: of course not. This is all about power. This is
[35:11] Speaker 1: all about control. It just meant, I mean, the opulence,
[35:16] Speaker 1: gold on the walls.
[35:17] Speaker 2: It wasn't what religion was supposed to become.
[35:19] Speaker 1: No, because any of these great teachers who are on
[35:22] Speaker 1: the wall right now behind us, none of them are
[35:25] Speaker 1: draped in gold and telling them, hey, God told me
[35:28] Speaker 1: I need a Learjet. Please pay me. That's what's happening now.
[35:33] Speaker 2: But the most important thing, Alex, is that they were
[35:35] Speaker 2: all teaching that the path is within us. We are
[35:39] Speaker 2: our own savior. We don't wait for an external savior.
[35:42] Speaker 2: And that's the most destructive thing, in my opinion, that
[35:44] Speaker 2: the church ever did, was have this meek group have
[35:48] Speaker 2: to wait for a savior and not rise up and
[35:50] Speaker 2: become their own savior.
[35:51] Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, and that's still, I mean, that's why people like, oh,
[35:55] Speaker 1: you're speaking blasphemy. You aren't God. I'm like, of course
[35:58] Speaker 1: we are.
[35:59] Speaker 2: We are all. Exactly.
[36:00] Speaker 1: How can you not say that we are pieces of
[36:03] Speaker 1: God or of source or whatever you want to use?
[36:05] Speaker 2: Fractals of source, right?
[36:06] Speaker 1: I mean, fractals of source. Of course, we're made by him.
[36:09] Speaker 1: We're part of this, everything here, the rock, this wall,
[36:13] Speaker 1: this mic, it's all part of it. We are a
[36:18] Speaker 1: co-creator of this because somebody invented this Someone invented this technology,
[36:23] Speaker 1: put it together. It's a co-creation. I came up with
[36:27] Speaker 1: this idea of this studio and it was brought to
[36:30] Speaker 1: life by other people as well as myself.
[36:33] Speaker 2: Now you get to reach millions around the world.
[36:34] Speaker 1: And now we get to reach millions around the world
[36:36] Speaker 1: with it. So it is fascinating to me how people
[36:39] Speaker 1: are not aware that they have the power within themselves.
[36:42] Speaker 2: I know.
[36:43] Speaker 1: And it's something that was taught by the ancients. especially
[36:46] Speaker 1: in the East, especially in the East.
[36:48] Speaker 2: But that's one of the biggest things that limits us
[36:50] Speaker 2: as a society, I think.
[36:51] Speaker 1: Correct.
[36:51] Speaker 2: Is how certain religious groups and different individuals forced that
[36:57] Speaker 2: kind of paradigm on us that we can't just become
[37:01] Speaker 2: our own savior and just rise up and have unlimited potential.
[37:06] Speaker 1: Correct.
[37:06] Speaker 2: And just have this almost like, well, go work there
[37:09] Speaker 2: and do this and, you know, shut your mouth when
[37:13] Speaker 2: you're not speaking, you're speaking blasphemy and be quiet and
[37:16] Speaker 2: do what you're told.
[37:17] Speaker 1: Don't ask questions.
[37:17] Speaker 2: That's going away now, finally. And we're finally in a
[37:20] Speaker 2: place where we're stripping those chains that have held us
[37:24] Speaker 2: back for so long.
[37:25] Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is something that the new generation coming up,
[37:28] Speaker 1: they just don't buy it. They're not buying into.
[37:30] Speaker 2: It's great, isn't it?
[37:31] Speaker 1: It's fantastic to watch because I see my kids, I
[37:34] Speaker 1: see even the younger, you know, older generations that are
[37:38] Speaker 1: already in their 20s now, and they just look and
[37:39] Speaker 1: they're like, we're not gonna go work for a company
[37:41] Speaker 1: for 40 years and get a gold watch. And if
[37:44] Speaker 1: they wanna fire us at any time, we're not going
[37:47] Speaker 1: to religion. This makes no sense to us. Like what?
[37:49] Speaker 2: The old paradigm's collapsing.
[37:51] Speaker 1: It's all of it's cracking. It's all going away. In
[37:53] Speaker 1: a hundred years, the establishments, well, we already see the cracks.
[37:58] Speaker 1: I mean, the Roman Catholic Church when I was growing
[38:01] Speaker 1: up was as powerful as you could not even look
[38:04] Speaker 1: at it the wrong way. There was no wrong could
[38:07] Speaker 1: be done. That's changed. You know, and other organizations around
[38:11] Speaker 1: the world, you know, government, I mean, I think Nixon
[38:13] Speaker 1: was the kind of first time that everyone was like,
[38:16] Speaker 1: wait a minute, our government.
[38:18] Speaker 2: Oh, right, right.
[38:18] Speaker 1: Is not.
[38:19] Speaker 2: Finally realized there's more going on.
[38:20] Speaker 1: There's what? There's more happening here? You know, or JFK,
[38:23] Speaker 1: when JFK got assassinated. He's like, what, what, what, what,
[38:25] Speaker 1: what just, you know? There was a time that that
[38:28] Speaker 1: was a wake up call for Americans specifically and the
[38:31] Speaker 1: world and many other in their countries as well. It's
[38:34] Speaker 1: just a fascinating idea where we're going.
[38:37] Speaker 2: The hidden hand, right?
[38:38] Speaker 1: There's always that hidden hand. And you know what the
[38:40] Speaker 1: funny thing is, is there's so many conspiracy theories out there.
[38:43] Speaker 1: You know, there's so many. And they were talking for years.
[38:46] Speaker 1: But the funny thing is that a lot of the
[38:48] Speaker 1: conspiracy theories are starting to kind of make sense. I'm
[38:52] Speaker 1: not saying all conspiracy theories are going to eventually make sense.
[38:54] Speaker 1: But you could just look at, you know, what happened
[38:56] Speaker 1: in the Me Too movement in Hollywood, where I come from.
[38:59] Speaker 1: You know, we heard stories about what happened with Harvey. Like,
[39:03] Speaker 1: you would hear stories about that. And you're like, that
[39:05] Speaker 1: can't be real. or that or they'll be like oh
[39:07] Speaker 1: this or that and i could tell you sit down
[39:08] Speaker 1: tell you stories of stuff i heard back in the
[39:10] Speaker 1: day that i was like oh well there they go
[39:12] Speaker 1: and i called everybody was gonna get knocked out but
[39:15] Speaker 1: they were they were myths they were myths they were
[39:18] Speaker 1: uh hearsay they were conspiracy theories oh that's impossible you
[39:22] Speaker 1: know there can't be that going on and then all
[39:24] Speaker 1: of a sudden you're like oh geez right what's his
[39:27] Speaker 1: name um oh god the the one who just hung
[39:29] Speaker 1: himself in the in jail um epstein epstein yeah like
[39:33] Speaker 1: literally on island because he didn't have any secrets to
[39:35] Speaker 1: tell anyone right exactly that was completely on the up
[39:37] Speaker 1: and up um but but he had a whole island
[39:40] Speaker 1: of you know of that kind of bad stuff of
[39:42] Speaker 1: bad stuff happening which was completely a conspiracy theory of like, oh,
[39:46] Speaker 1: that's what the Hollywood elite or powerful men go do.
[39:49] Speaker 2: All the presidents are visiting and everything.
[39:51] Speaker 1: It's fascinating.
[39:52] Speaker 2: We know.
[39:52] Speaker 1: So I'm using this as an example of what was
[39:55] Speaker 1: once a conspiracy has now been starting to be proven
[39:59] Speaker 1: in many, many, many ways. And ancient civilizations are no different.
[40:05] Speaker 1: I mean, the Younger Dryas was a complete myth, a folklore.
[40:10] Speaker 1: No one really gave it credibility until Graham came around
[40:14] Speaker 1: and Randall came around.
[40:15] Speaker 2: Well, actually, that's a perfect segue to bring up is
[40:18] Speaker 2: that we should maybe talk about how that started. How
[40:21] Speaker 2: did that paradigm get shifted and how did it begin?
[40:26] Speaker 2: Wasn't it Eric?
[40:26] Speaker 1: Eric Vaughn?
[40:27] Speaker 2: No. Well, if we want to go back to how
[40:29] Speaker 2: the– I think how the conversation– reached more of an
[40:33] Speaker 2: academic level, I think that that's the best place to start,
[40:35] Speaker 2: where people got involved, because it's an announcement that ties
[40:38] Speaker 2: very much into what I'm doing right now, too, is
[40:41] Speaker 2: that the first person, or one of the most, I'll say,
[40:44] Speaker 2: predominant people that started this whole conversation was a man
[40:48] Speaker 2: named John Anthony West.
[40:51] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[40:57] Speaker 3: And now, back to the show.
[41:00] Speaker 2: John Anthony West was He was way ahead of his time.
[41:04] Speaker 2: And he, in Egypt, had noticed that the Sphinx enclosure
[41:08] Speaker 2: and the Valley Temple don't match what we're told with
[41:11] Speaker 2: things like wind erosion and from the same time period.
[41:14] Speaker 2: And there was a lot of, there was a couple
[41:16] Speaker 2: other researchers before him that had really put forth some
[41:19] Speaker 2: information saying, well, I don't think all of Egypt was
[41:22] Speaker 2: built at the same time. There's a whole other chapter
[41:25] Speaker 2: here that's mixed in with a later group. And there's
[41:28] Speaker 2: evidence now based on erosion of the Sphinx enclosure that
[41:31] Speaker 2: that may prove that. And so a man was brought in,
[41:35] Speaker 2: that man is a great geologist named Robert Shock, okay?
[41:39] Speaker 2: And Robert Shock was somewhat of a skeptic coming in
[41:43] Speaker 2: to that. He was open-minded, but he admits that he
[41:47] Speaker 2: thought maybe the Egyptologists had done a good job and
[41:50] Speaker 2: had dated it correctly. And so he's brought in to
[41:53] Speaker 2: go look at the Sphinx enclosure to see whether or
[41:56] Speaker 2: not it was wind or water erosion. And I guess
[41:59] Speaker 2: I can just announce that we have Robert Schock full-time
[42:03] Speaker 2: as part of this documentary and the expeditions going back
[42:06] Speaker 2: to Turkey and other places around the world. So it's
[42:08] Speaker 2: truly an honor to have such an incredible man and
[42:11] Speaker 2: a hero be a part of the work I'm doing.
[42:13] Speaker 2: He has a PhD in geology as well as he's
[42:16] Speaker 2: got a BS in anthropology and others. Incredible credentials. So
[42:19] Speaker 2: Robert gets brought in from John, who's a good friend
[42:22] Speaker 2: of his, brings him in, shows him the Sphinx enclosure,
[42:26] Speaker 2: and Robert says he was there for 30 seconds to
[42:30] Speaker 2: one minute. Okay. I want to say that again.
[42:33] Speaker 1: 30 seconds.
[42:34] Speaker 2: He stood there to possibly up to one minute. He
[42:37] Speaker 2: says before he knew it was not wind erosion. That's
[42:40] Speaker 2: all it took. Imagine something collapsing. A paradigm takes, takes
[42:45] Speaker 2: 30 seconds to look at something and be like, that's
[42:48] Speaker 2: not right. That's what we're talking about right now is
[42:51] Speaker 2: that Robert shock stood in front of the Sphinx enclosure.
[42:53] Speaker 2: And he said, that is not wind erosion. It's clearly
[42:56] Speaker 2: water erosion. but not water erosion from just a quick
[42:59] Speaker 2: little event. Water erosion from very extensive rainfall, very heavy
[43:04] Speaker 2: rainfall during a certain time period, potentially hundreds of years. Now,
[43:10] Speaker 2: problem with that is that Egypt is a desert and
[43:13] Speaker 2: there hasn't been any rainfall in Egypt for a long, long,
[43:16] Speaker 2: long time. Now, how long? Well, we look in climatic
[43:21] Speaker 2: records and we look at when the Sahara wasn't a
[43:23] Speaker 2: desert and when it was a little bit more fertile,
[43:25] Speaker 2: more of like a grassland maybe, a lot of, maybe
[43:28] Speaker 2: some trees based on proximity to the Nile River and
[43:32] Speaker 2: things like that. But it wasn't like it is now.
[43:35] Speaker 2: It was a much more lush place. So we look
[43:36] Speaker 2: back and sure enough, the last time there was enough
[43:40] Speaker 2: precipitation to be able to create that erosion was during
[43:43] Speaker 2: the Younger Dryas. So 11,600 years ago, 12,000 years ago,
[43:46] Speaker 2: you know, in that time period. And so that had
[43:52] Speaker 2: opened up a whole can of worms. And he was
[43:54] Speaker 2: subsequently viciously attacked by mainstream academia, viciously attacked. Because here
[44:00] Speaker 2: comes a very, very well-respected academic who still teaches at
[44:06] Speaker 2: Boston University. And because remember, not everybody is an academic.
[44:10] Speaker 2: Like give you an example like Graham Hancock or John
[44:12] Speaker 2: Anthony West. They didn't have a degree in archaeology.
[44:15] Speaker 1: They're investigative reporters.
[44:16] Speaker 2: So they're investigating something, but they are not going to
[44:19] Speaker 2: be fully heard. Because they're not academic. That's fully credited.
[44:23] Speaker 2: So that was why Robert, all of a sudden, he
[44:26] Speaker 2: takes the brunt.
[44:26] Speaker 1: Of all this.
[44:27] Speaker 2: He gets viciously attacked for years and years and years
[44:33] Speaker 2: from that. And it had a huge impact on certain
[44:39] Speaker 2: segments of society looking at this. But archaeologists didn't budge. Mm-hmm.
[44:45] Speaker 2: They didn't budge at all.
[44:46] Speaker 1: Well, they don't want to rewrite the textbooks.
[44:48] Speaker 2: No, I mean, Zahi was in the whole group in
[44:50] Speaker 2: Egypt that is protecting that antiquities there. They didn't budge
[44:54] Speaker 2: at all. Egypt started 5,000 years ago or so, 4,000
[44:58] Speaker 2: to 5,000 years ago, and that's it, right? There's nothing
[45:01] Speaker 2: else before that.
[45:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, the Great Pyramid is a tomb. Sure. Exactly.
[45:04] Speaker 2: It's their tombs, Khufu's name is in there, even though
[45:06] Speaker 2: we know that's a complete forgery from the 1800s. It
[45:09] Speaker 2: was never the name Khufu, the cartouche of Khufu in
[45:12] Speaker 2: the Great Pyramid. That was a complete forgery.
[45:14] Speaker 1: So.
[45:16] Speaker 2: It really brings up the question though about how– why
[45:20] Speaker 2: something like that would be so fiercely protected.
[45:23] Speaker 1: Why?
[45:24] Speaker 2: Who cares? Why can't we just rewrite the story? Why
[45:27] Speaker 2: is it that we're in a world now where the
[45:32] Speaker 2: scientific method has failed us? The scientific method of, okay,
[45:38] Speaker 2: let's take our background as an academic who studied this
[45:42] Speaker 2: and knows what they're talking about, geologists that knows what
[45:45] Speaker 2: he's talking about. Why can't we just look at things
[45:49] Speaker 2: and use science to objectively figure out what they are?
[45:53] Speaker 2: Why do we have to have an agenda? Why do
[45:55] Speaker 2: we have to build off of whatever somebody else did?
[45:58] Speaker 2: Why are we so afraid to step on the toes
[46:03] Speaker 2: of others before us? and speak about what something is.
[46:06] Speaker 2: But that's what it is. It's called the ivory tower
[46:08] Speaker 2: of archaeology. It's a tower of archaeology that's been built
[46:12] Speaker 2: off of the legacy of those before them. And whether
[46:16] Speaker 2: or not there's a conspiracy woven into that is another
[46:18] Speaker 2: whole conversation. But either way, that discovery by Robert Shock
[46:23] Speaker 2: and John Anthony West and others, and then Graham Hancock
[46:26] Speaker 2: got brought in, then he got kicked out of Egypt,
[46:27] Speaker 2: and now he's back again because he made up his own.
[46:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that. I saw that post.
[46:32] Speaker 2: But the point is that we people like me and
[46:36] Speaker 2: you and others that are studying this, it seems so
[46:39] Speaker 2: obvious to us.
[46:40] Speaker 1: Of course.
[46:41] Speaker 2: Like, of course, there was a pre-dynastic period of Egypt.
[46:43] Speaker 2: They built the Sphinx and they built the Great Pyramids
[46:46] Speaker 2: and they built the Valley Temple and they built all
[46:48] Speaker 2: of these things, Tannis and the Osirion and Serapium. All
[46:52] Speaker 2: these were built by this ancient lost civilization in Egypt,
[46:56] Speaker 2: these pre-dynastic culture. And then they were wiped out.
[46:59] Speaker 1: Boof.
[47:00] Speaker 2: Just like the Ararat civilization I talk about, the Lake
[47:04] Speaker 2: Vaughan region with Ionis and Kef. They're wiped out, and
[47:07] Speaker 2: then another culture comes along thousands of years later. They're
[47:11] Speaker 2: kind of somewhat primitive-like. Their mindsets aren't the same. They
[47:16] Speaker 2: write a bunch of graffiti on everything in the form
[47:19] Speaker 2: of hieroglyphics, right? They re-carve the Sphinx head.
[47:23] Speaker 1: Right.
[47:24] Speaker 2: That's very, very well established by a lot of scientists,
[47:28] Speaker 2: including Robert Shock. And it's very easy to tell based
[47:31] Speaker 2: on how the head doesn't look at all with the dimensions.
[47:35] Speaker 2: It's offset.
[47:36] Speaker 1: It's strange.
[47:36] Speaker 2: It's tiny compared to the body. Whereas, you know, and
[47:39] Speaker 2: I agree with this, Robert and others believe it was
[47:41] Speaker 2: a lion because it was facing Leo. And it was
[47:44] Speaker 2: like a guardian lion. And we all, we know that
[47:49] Speaker 2: there are subterranean chambers under the Sphinx. one of the
[47:52] Speaker 2: most important that was found using ground-penetrating radar and different
[47:56] Speaker 2: types of technology that looks under the ground, they found
[47:59] Speaker 2: a very, very interesting cavity in a tunnel that comes
[48:03] Speaker 2: under the front paw of the Sphinx. Now, there are
[48:07] Speaker 2: other entrances in the Sphinx. There's one on the rump
[48:10] Speaker 2: on the back. There's one on the head. But the
[48:12] Speaker 2: one under the paw was the one that was shown
[48:15] Speaker 2: to have the best evidence of being a tunnel that
[48:18] Speaker 2: led somewhere. And it's all talked about how there's like
[48:20] Speaker 2: an ancient library supposedly underneath it and all these things.
[48:23] Speaker 2: But it's appalling to think that they would find those
[48:27] Speaker 2: subterranean chambers and identify them and then not only not
[48:31] Speaker 2: explore them, but then build on top and block them off.
[48:35] Speaker 2: So what happened after? They ended up building an enclosure
[48:38] Speaker 2: around the Sphinx that was like a wooden enclosure and
[48:41] Speaker 2: they blocked it off. And they never went down.
[48:44] Speaker 1: Really?
[48:44] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And the whole thing was like, shh, that
[48:48] Speaker 2: never happened. And I remember so many times they found
[48:52] Speaker 2: these subterranean chambers, not on one occasion, on multiple occasions
[48:56] Speaker 2: in the last 15, 20 years. They found these subterranean
[48:59] Speaker 2: chambers not only under the Great Sphinx, but under the
[49:01] Speaker 2: Great Pyramid. And they're not being explored, and they have
[49:05] Speaker 2: not been explored, or they've been explored and we haven't
[49:08] Speaker 2: seen what's in them. But that is an example of
[49:11] Speaker 2: what we're talking about is there's clearly a management of antiquities.
[49:16] Speaker 2: We're going to call it a management of antiquities. for watching.
[49:20] Speaker 2: we're allowed to be shown and then what we're... Shh.
[49:24] Speaker 1: Why? No. Why?
[49:25] Speaker 2: Well, that brings up into the question of why is
[49:30] Speaker 2: the doctrine of archaeology so protected? What would happen if
[49:33] Speaker 2: we disrupted that doctrine? I think it has bigger implications
[49:38] Speaker 2: than a lot of people give it credit for. Yeah,
[49:39] Speaker 2: why not just allow the truth to come out? Well,
[49:43] Speaker 2: imagine if society and civilization as we know it was
[49:48] Speaker 2: understood or with the masses told so that everyone's like, oh,
[49:52] Speaker 2: my God, finally, I accept it. Because a lot of
[49:54] Speaker 2: people in society won't accept something unless it's announced officially.
[49:58] Speaker 2: They're like, oh, that's kind of fun.
[50:00] Speaker 1: Maybe.
[50:00] Speaker 3: Maybe.
[50:01] Speaker 1: But then they, you know, that's it. Until the alien
[50:05] Speaker 1: comes and lands in the White House lawn and comes
[50:08] Speaker 1: out and goes, hey, guys. Exactly. And even then they'll
[50:11] Speaker 1: be like, that's not VFX. Wait a minute.
[50:14] Speaker 2: So I think what we're talking about here is a
[50:16] Speaker 2: paradigm that exists.
[50:19] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[50:25] Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
[50:29] Speaker 2: A very carefully created paradigm that goes back actually to
[50:32] Speaker 2: Constantine and the Holy Roman Empire. That was more of
[50:36] Speaker 2: a biblical date of 6,000 years. The earth is only 6,000
[50:39] Speaker 2: years old and civilizations emerged during whatever it is. Those
[50:44] Speaker 2: are usually biblical dates that are associated with the 6,000
[50:47] Speaker 2: year period. But right now, there's not supposed to be
[50:50] Speaker 2: any civilizations that were civilized, an actual civilization that built
[50:56] Speaker 2: things that was beyond 6,000 years ago. It doesn't exist.
[51:03] Speaker 2: It's all nomadic hunter-gatherers before.
[51:05] Speaker 1: 6,000 years ago. Just like Obeklu Tepe was done by
[51:07] Speaker 1: nomadic hunter-gatherers.
[51:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like, oh, this is cool. Let's build
[51:09] Speaker 2: an astronomical temple here and use all these resources and
[51:11] Speaker 2: build multi-ton T-stones that have constellations and everything.
[51:16] Speaker 1: And there's a ton that most of it hasn't been
[51:21] Speaker 1: found yet.
[51:21] Speaker 2: But that's the point, is that we have a doctrine
[51:24] Speaker 2: that is fiercely guarded. fiercely guarded. Anything has to fit
[51:28] Speaker 2: into that because if it's not, let's talk about what
[51:30] Speaker 2: would happen.
[51:31] Speaker 1: The whole thing comes crashing down. But that's in science.
[51:34] Speaker 1: That's in medicine. It's everything.
[51:37] Speaker 2: Even in consciousness. Even in understanding our divinity of who
[51:41] Speaker 2: we are. Not coming from a place of being primitive,
[51:44] Speaker 2: but coming from a place of almost divinity. And then
[51:47] Speaker 2: falling down to a place that's very primitive and forgetting everything,
[51:52] Speaker 2: losing all of what we knew and having to start
[51:55] Speaker 2: over again, and thinking that we're at the pinnacle of
[51:57] Speaker 2: our entire civilization, and I would argue we're not. I
[52:01] Speaker 2: would say that these previous civilizations that built things like
[52:04] Speaker 2: Sasuke Oman and Oye Titombo and Cusco and Tiwanaku and
[52:09] Speaker 2: Pumapunku and the Great Pyramids and the Sphinx and Baalbek
[52:13] Speaker 2: Lebanon and... uh, Ionis and, and, and Kev Colessi. And
[52:17] Speaker 2: there's many, many others. They're part of a lost chapter
[52:20] Speaker 2: that we don't even consider.
[52:22] Speaker 1: But also that would throw, that would throw, uh, evolution
[52:25] Speaker 1: completely out of whack.
[52:26] Speaker 2: It would, it would bring up questions of our entire
[52:28] Speaker 2: path and how we got here and about what led
[52:31] Speaker 2: us to this and why we seem to have come
[52:33] Speaker 2: from a more pure place spiritually. And that fell to
[52:37] Speaker 2: a place that is, is, um, very disconnected.
[52:40] Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, um, which brings us
[52:42] Speaker 1: perfectly into the next segue.
[52:44] Speaker 2: Okay.
[52:45] Speaker 1: Which is the concept of the Anunnaki, which is fascinating.
[52:50] Speaker 1: I love the Anunnaki. I just think it's a fascinating story.
[52:53] Speaker 1: I'm a storyteller, so I love these stories. In the
[52:56] Speaker 1: Sumerian text, you mentioned it already, and we have never
[52:58] Speaker 1: spoken about it on the show, the king's tablet.
[53:02] Speaker 2: The Sumerian king list.
[53:03] Speaker 1: The complete list.
[53:04] Speaker 2: And there's others as well, like the Uruk list of
[53:06] Speaker 2: kings and sages. Right, so can you explain to people
[53:10] Speaker 2: what that is and how old in the stories Or
[53:14] Speaker 2: in the list that they're talking about, you know, how
[53:17] Speaker 2: far back it goes. Yeah. And I use, I don't
[53:20] Speaker 2: even use just those. I use a combination of many
[53:23] Speaker 2: other texts as well. But it gets back to, and
[53:28] Speaker 2: I guess I can go back to that 1931 excavation
[53:30] Speaker 2: of Chirupac because it really lays the story. They dug
[53:34] Speaker 2: down to a depth of 17 to 20 feet down.
[53:38] Speaker 2: And in this period, they found three distinct civilizations that
[53:42] Speaker 2: have been there. three, okay? Three civilizations, not one or two.
[53:47] Speaker 2: And they were all separated by different periods of time.
[53:50] Speaker 2: And what they identified as stratum one was the oldest one.
[53:53] Speaker 2: And it's below a massive flood layer, just like it's
[53:56] Speaker 2: described in the tablets. Well, in the Sumerian king list
[53:59] Speaker 2: and the Uruk list of kings and sages, and even
[54:01] Speaker 2: the Brocious king list that came out of Babylon, they
[54:04] Speaker 2: describe a time long ago. I mean, so long ago
[54:08] Speaker 2: that not even during the time of Gilgamesh. That's what's
[54:12] Speaker 2: so interesting is that we think of Gilgamesh, right, an
[54:14] Speaker 2: ancient Uruk-Ur. And he's this king that is seeking out immortality,
[54:20] Speaker 2: and we have the tablets from him. But in something like,
[54:23] Speaker 2: for instance, the Epic of Gilgamesh, he goes to seek
[54:25] Speaker 2: immortality from this legendary Sumerian priest-king known as Zayasudra, who
[54:32] Speaker 2: is from a whole different time. He finds him, like
[54:34] Speaker 2: this journey in the underworld. And we can get to
[54:35] Speaker 2: the Anun in a second, in the Anunnaki. But He
[54:39] Speaker 2: finds him and he's like, I want to seek this,
[54:41] Speaker 2: I want to find the secrets of immortality. And I
[54:44] Speaker 2: love this because Zayasudra says, oh, Gilgamesh, I'm from a
[54:49] Speaker 2: time long before the memory of even your people ever existed.
[54:54] Speaker 1: He says that in the Epic of Gilgamesh.
[54:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, that, you know, we think Gilgamesh in that time
[54:58] Speaker 2: is so old. And he's like, well, he's like, I'm
[55:01] Speaker 2: from a city called Shurupak. He says that. That's a
[55:04] Speaker 2: time so long before. He says that it was a
[55:07] Speaker 2: time when the gods walked amongst men, that the Anunnaki were,
[55:13] Speaker 2: they were in our realm. It was like part of
[55:15] Speaker 2: our temples and our, where we lived was like very
[55:19] Speaker 2: different than it is now. And he states that Chirupak
[55:23] Speaker 2: as from where he was from, was not from the
[55:26] Speaker 2: same time as Gilgamesh. He says, he talks about how
[55:30] Speaker 2: it was from a time so long before that it
[55:33] Speaker 2: would be like if we were from Gilgamesh's time, It's
[55:36] Speaker 2: like us trying to consider the ancient past for him.
[55:39] Speaker 2: That's how far back it is. And so there's these
[55:43] Speaker 2: different sagas that have happened with the rising and falling
[55:47] Speaker 2: of different civilizations. Well, that's exactly what the Sumerian king
[55:51] Speaker 2: list says. And exactly like the Ehrlich list of kings
[55:54] Speaker 2: and sages says, it says that there's the original five
[55:57] Speaker 2: cities that were created. Five cities created an ancient Sumer
[56:02] Speaker 2: along the banks of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers that
[56:05] Speaker 2: was the beginning of everything. It states that the Anunna,
[56:08] Speaker 2: which was, by the way, the Anunnaki's original name in
[56:12] Speaker 2: Sumer was the Anunna. Now, the term Anunnaki was an
[56:16] Speaker 2: Akkadian or Assyrian term that came after. They essentially mean
[56:19] Speaker 2: the same thing. But they state that there was divine
[56:24] Speaker 2: places picked, chosen, where they laid divine... They built with
[56:30] Speaker 2: brick back then. They didn't use megalithic stone for some reason.
[56:33] Speaker 2: And they talked about laying bricks in pure places and
[56:36] Speaker 2: then creating humanity in this garden to be, and this
[56:40] Speaker 2: is where there's been a lot of stuff online because
[56:42] Speaker 2: I did posts recently talking about origins of humanity, what
[56:45] Speaker 2: were purposes here, why we were created, and like all
[56:48] Speaker 2: that stuff. And then you get a lot of avenues
[56:51] Speaker 2: like the Sacrifician Avenue, which gets into like a slave
[56:54] Speaker 2: gold mining area thing, which I don't agree at all,
[56:57] Speaker 2: and I don't think that any of those translations are accurate.
[57:00] Speaker 1: Because what I.
[57:00] Speaker 2: Find is that they talk about a story that has
[57:03] Speaker 2: to do with doing the workload of the gods, but
[57:06] Speaker 2: I think that that's understood in a way that's like slavery,
[57:09] Speaker 2: but it's not.
[57:10] Speaker 1: Okay?
[57:12] Speaker 2: So again, getting back to the Sumerian king list and
[57:14] Speaker 2: the Uruk list of kings and sages to stay on
[57:15] Speaker 2: there for now, is they talk about these original five cities,
[57:19] Speaker 2: starting with Eridu and ending in Shurupec. Shurupec was the
[57:22] Speaker 2: last one. And that during those times, During those times,
[57:27] Speaker 2: the lineages of people, and it's not even just in
[57:29] Speaker 2: the Sumerian king list and Heraclistic kings and sages and Babylon,
[57:33] Speaker 2: but you see in things like Genesis and in ancient
[57:37] Speaker 2: Hebrew texts that talk of like Enoch, talk about them
[57:40] Speaker 2: and the Noah mythos of living for hundreds and hundreds
[57:43] Speaker 2: of years, like 500 years, 700 years, maybe even a
[57:48] Speaker 2: thousand years. And it talks about these people that were
[57:51] Speaker 2: around that are very different than we are now. that
[57:55] Speaker 2: were living, again, enormous amounts of time, seemed to have
[58:00] Speaker 2: some differences, possibly even slightly genetically differences than us. And
[58:05] Speaker 2: that it describes how this event, this complete disaster came
[58:10] Speaker 2: through and reset everything. And there's a tablet called the
[58:14] Speaker 2: Death of Bill Games that most people probably never heard of.
[58:18] Speaker 2: And Bill Games is another name for Gilgamesh. And in that,
[58:21] Speaker 2: it discusses how Gilgamesh is seeking immortality, like I mentioned,
[58:26] Speaker 2: and that he was never able to obtain it. And
[58:29] Speaker 2: he's told by the gods that Zayasudra, and I'll tell
[58:32] Speaker 2: you who Zayasudra is in a second, that he was
[58:34] Speaker 2: the last man ever given immortality, ever again. So it's
[58:38] Speaker 2: really curious.
[58:40] Speaker 1: But given by who?
[58:41] Speaker 2: By the Anunna, the Anunnaki. But it's very curious how
[58:47] Speaker 2: there's also lineages shown in these king's lists that are
[58:51] Speaker 2: very long. for how long they've ruled and how long
[58:53] Speaker 2: they potentially lived. And it coincides with this time period
[58:56] Speaker 2: where it's shown that we were given, we were no
[58:58] Speaker 2: longer given immortality. And all of a sudden the ages
[59:03] Speaker 2: gets knocked down to like, they ruled for like 50
[59:06] Speaker 2: years or something.
[59:08] Speaker 1: And before they were ruling for how long?
[59:09] Speaker 2: Hundreds.
[59:12] Speaker 1: The one king?
[59:13] Speaker 2: Yeah. Hundreds, if not a thousand. And again, we could
[59:17] Speaker 2: get into shards till the cows come home. Whether or
[59:19] Speaker 2: not the age of a shard is 3,000 years or
[59:22] Speaker 2: it's supposed to, whatever that is. The reason why I
[59:25] Speaker 2: don't think that's as important and then Shar is how
[59:28] Speaker 2: they measure time in Sumer, is because the same time
[59:32] Speaker 2: periods of living for hundreds of years is echoed by
[59:34] Speaker 2: many other things. So it's not like a- Supporting evidence. Yeah,
[59:38] Speaker 2: it's not like a misunderstanding of what a Shar is
[59:40] Speaker 2: because then you find like, well, in Genesis shows, like
[59:44] Speaker 2: Enoch lived for like 400, 500 years or whatever it is, right?
[59:47] Speaker 2: So we were seeing that across the board of something
[59:51] Speaker 2: that happened where humanity became very mortal, and then was
[59:56] Speaker 2: capped at like 120 years or something. And then something
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: really significant changed there. But that's what we're talking about here.
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: Not only just ages that were different of civilizations, but
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: very different people that were seen to be connected deeply
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: to the gods, to the Anunnaki, in a way that, again,
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: was different than we are now. Again, remember I mentioned
[1:00:17] Speaker 2: the Epic of Gilyr, she says, Sharupak was from a
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: time so far before you, the gods were once in it,
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: in Sharupak, like in the city. You can imagine, wait
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: a minute. So the Inuna Anunnaki, which seemed to be
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: somewhat like us, we're designed in their image and they're
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: designed in the image of source. And we're just all
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: part of the same thing. And that they've been like
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: these angels and demons possibly of our reality, these ordainers
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: of destinies. And when we talk about cycle masters, I
[1:00:46] Speaker 2: think they are the cycle masters.
[1:00:50] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[1:00:56] Speaker 3: And now, back to the show.
[1:00:59] Speaker 1: So, but on those tablets, to my understanding, we're talking
[1:01:03] Speaker 1: about going back not by 10,000 to 20,000 years. We're
[1:01:06] Speaker 1: talking about 100, 200,000 years.
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: Well, that's where it gets into curiosities about whether a
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: char was actually 3,600 years ago. Now, I have temporarily.
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: Put that aside for a minute. I do accept the
[1:01:23] Speaker 2: possibility that we're talking about enormous time periods. However, when
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: I'm looking at climatic data and the different rises and
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: falls of different things, and when things occurred on the earth,
[1:01:35] Speaker 2: I am under the impression that that story is more
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: like 40 to 50,000 years old. Now, only because I'm
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: trying to find other evidence to corroborate it, right? But
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter.
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: It's ancient. It's so long ago. So yeah, it's 50,000
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: to 200,000. It's way beyond the timeline that we've been taught.
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[1:01:54] Speaker 1: It's so far beyond.
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: At that point, we're kind of getting in the weeds
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: because all we need to do is prove that, look,
[1:02:01] Speaker 2: our story is far older than we're told. Then we
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: can figure out exactly how old it is.
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: So isn't it true, though, that our DNA of Homo
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: sapiens was changed? in a very significant way where there's
[1:02:13] Speaker 1: a cap, there's little caps on our DNA, and that
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: there's something quote unquote called junk DNA, which makes no
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: sense whatsoever. And I love having this conversation with people
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: about it because just to prove it, like there were
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: many other homo erectus, almost other versions of us out
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: there than Neanderthals. And that's well documented in the tablets.
[1:02:31] Speaker 1: Very well, yeah, exactly. So there was multiple that were
[1:02:34] Speaker 1: on the planet at the same time. We arguably were
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: not the best suited. We're not the strongest. We're not
[1:02:41] Speaker 1: the strongest. Our skin is not covered in fur, so
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: we burn easily. It doesn't seem like we're built for
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: the outside.
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: Because it's not built on survival of the fittest. It's
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: not based on that. Right. We're more like gardeners or
[1:02:54] Speaker 2: stewards of a great place.
[1:02:56] Speaker 1: Exactly. Because Neanderthals are much stronger than us. Yeah. Bigger
[1:02:59] Speaker 1: than us and actually had a bigger brain, to my understanding,
[1:03:02] Speaker 1: as well. So then all of a sudden, like that...
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: humanity or homo sapien took over within, I don't know
[1:03:09] Speaker 1: how many, a hundred years, thousand years. I don't know
[1:03:11] Speaker 1: what that is, but we became dominant and everybody else
[1:03:14] Speaker 1: just went away. The Neanderthal went away and all the
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: other versions of us went away.
[1:03:17] Speaker 2: It took thousands of years, but yes.
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: But that's a blink.
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: No, I know.
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: That's a blink in the scope of things. That's not evolution.
[1:03:25] Speaker 1: Evolution doesn't work that fast. Evolution is supposedly long and slow.
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: Which gets in the question of whether evolution is more
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: of a micro evolution versus a macro evolution.
[1:03:34] Speaker 1: So can you explain what I've just discussed?
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So micro means small changes, macro means large.
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: And I actually have a great tablet I can bring
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: up that gives us a perfect example of this. And
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: it's called the myth of Adapa. Before I mention that,
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: I want to just point out a very interesting curiosity
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: about humanity's genes, the genome of humanity. All primates on
[1:03:57] Speaker 2: Earth have 48 chromosomes, right? The ape world and all
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: of them have 48 chromosomes. But for some reason... Homo
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: sapiens sapien is the only one that has 46. So
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: we have 46 chromosomes instead of 48, which is very
[1:04:11] Speaker 2: strange and unusual. How something like that could have happened
[1:04:14] Speaker 2: in nature is beyond me. It seems more of some
[1:04:18] Speaker 2: kind of intervention. Now, does that mean that it's some
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: kind of a science lab? I would caution us on that.
[1:04:24] Speaker 1: That's very sci-fi.
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: It may be more of something that's beyond that, a
[1:04:30] Speaker 2: little bit more of creating something using powers or things
[1:04:36] Speaker 2: that we don't understand. I don't think it was necessarily
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: in the lab with a bunch of lights on with
[1:04:40] Speaker 2: them tinkering. Because that's how we perceive it. I don't
[1:04:44] Speaker 2: think that's how it went. Now, let me give you
[1:04:47] Speaker 2: some context for that. There's a very important set of
[1:04:51] Speaker 2: tablets called the myth of Adapa. Now, right away, it's
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: interesting that Adapa is a pretty similar name to Adam.
[1:04:59] Speaker 2: It's interesting how that lines up. Now, in the myth
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: of Adapa... it's very curious how it describes how Adapa
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: was created, it says that, by Enki, one of the Anunnaki,
[1:05:11] Speaker 2: in perfection among men, the greatest of all. It says
[1:05:16] Speaker 2: the greatest of all the Anunnaki. It says that essentially
[1:05:21] Speaker 2: Adapa was like a perfect man created, which is very
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: interesting with the parallels with Adam in religious text. But
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: it states that he was the greatest man ever created
[1:05:30] Speaker 2: to be chief among men. Meaning that there are other,
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: humanity exists. There are other men. It's not like there
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: aren't any other homo sapiens, sapiens, or whatever you want
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: to call them before that. So that brings up the question, okay,
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: so then Adapa wasn't the first man ever created. He
[1:05:49] Speaker 2: was the first perfect man ever created. which means that
[1:05:52] Speaker 2: there were other creations and other men before them. So
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: that brings up the question of, okay, well, why weren't
[1:05:58] Speaker 2: they perfect? And why was Adapa all of a sudden
[1:06:02] Speaker 2: created perfect? And then we have this lineage and connection
[1:06:05] Speaker 2: back to this perfect man in the fall in the
[1:06:07] Speaker 2: garden and all this stuff. But again, in my research,
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: I can't ignore things that are right there in front
[1:06:14] Speaker 2: of me, even if it's difficult to accept. I pride
[1:06:17] Speaker 2: myself as being a very scientific person that bases things
[1:06:20] Speaker 2: on evidence. And that's something that I can't ignore. It
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: is true that it mentions a previous man that exists
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: that isn't as superior. And then Adapa's created, and then
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: it's like this perfect man. And it's like this superior thing.
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: He's considered a great sage. In fact, he's considered the
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: first great sage of all of humanity. And he ends
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: up leading this group called the Apkallu, which is a
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: group of seven sages, seven, just like the Psycho Masters
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: and the Visual Light Spectrum, It's talked about how there
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: are these seven sages that then travel around the world
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: and spread civilization and create everything. And that the exact
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: same depiction of the Alp Kalu looks like the same
[1:07:00] Speaker 2: depiction as the Dogon described the Nomo that taught them
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: about the Sirius star system. and about all these different aspects,
[1:07:08] Speaker 2: then it's like, wait a minute, wait. So the Dogon
[1:07:11] Speaker 2: were once Egyptians, and they have all this knowledge about Sirius,
[1:07:14] Speaker 2: and then you find out the Great Pyramid of Egypt
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: is exactly aligned with the Queen's chamber, to the star
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: constellation of Canis Major with Sirius, and then Orion. It
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: starts to get really interesting, wondering about how that all
[1:07:28] Speaker 2: could have been possible, and how all that went down.
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: But clearly our story is fantastic. where we have risen
[1:07:35] Speaker 2: up to the greatest levels we can imagine and created
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: what I believe was truly a golden age of the
[1:07:42] Speaker 2: most precise and astronomically perfect temples aligned to the sun,
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: the earth, the sun, the moon, and the celestial connections
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: like Orion and Sirius and other things to be perfect.
[1:07:54] Speaker 2: And that we were once that, and we had built
[1:07:57] Speaker 2: all of those things. And we had what was probably
[1:08:00] Speaker 2: a beautiful civilization around the world that taught about hermetic
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: principles and mystic teachings and these things were he looks
[1:08:08] Speaker 2: like all these ancient places on top of mountains like
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: Machu Picchu were just temples to the to like reaching
[1:08:14] Speaker 2: highest states and the gods and then they were all
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: destroyed and then we forgot everything well yeah and so
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: let me give you my opinion on like because it's
[1:08:23] Speaker 2: very well established in the Bhagavad Gita and others like
[1:08:25] Speaker 2: you said with Krishna and others this is the ancient
[1:08:28] Speaker 2: Hindu Indian location not today right My opinion on that
[1:08:34] Speaker 2: is that they were describing utter catastrophes on the earth
[1:08:38] Speaker 2: as being a war of the gods. Now, in some ways,
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: it sort of was. Because if, like, to give you
[1:08:43] Speaker 2: an example, read the Enuma Elish or Adrahasis. It describes
[1:08:46] Speaker 2: how there's a council of the Enuna that make a
[1:08:49] Speaker 2: decision to destroy humanity. Destroy humanity. And that that decision
[1:08:57] Speaker 2: was extremely... regretted after. And that there was conflict between them,
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: these Anuna, over whether it was seven or 12, whatever
[1:09:09] Speaker 2: it is of them, that they were in conflict about
[1:09:13] Speaker 2: whether or not that was the right choice to do.
[1:09:15] Speaker 2: They describe humanity as becoming too loud. They use the
[1:09:19] Speaker 2: word loud, and I think it has to do with
[1:09:21] Speaker 2: language and different things here, like how Tower of Babel
[1:09:24] Speaker 2: might be related to it. But again, it's this concept
[1:09:28] Speaker 2: of them being in charge of cycles. Okay, so we
[1:09:33] Speaker 2: think of it as such a bad thing. We're like,
[1:09:34] Speaker 2: oh my God, I can't believe they would just destroy things. Well,
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: look at Shiva and Brahma. Look at the Trinity out
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: of the Hindu culture. Shiva's considered a creator and a destroyer, right?
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: So why are we ignoring the destroyer part?
[1:09:50] Speaker 1: But that's the nature of humanity. That's the nature of
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: material world. We create and it goes.
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: Well, because that's the cycles of the universe. Right. And
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: those cycles are being governed, which is why... It's very
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: interesting in the vision of Hermes. You learn that Poimander,
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: the dragon, which is God, which is really interesting that
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: God is, by the way, is portrayed as a dragon,
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: which is why it's very interesting how Kukukan and Quetzalcoatl
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: are feathered dragons, which is just the metamorphosis of the
[1:10:18] Speaker 2: serpent into its highest form. Okay, wings. Now, it's described
[1:10:23] Speaker 2: in that how cycles govern everything here.
[1:10:29] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[1:10:35] Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
[1:10:39] Speaker 2: Okay. In, in that, in the vision of Harvey's, it
[1:10:41] Speaker 2: says that cycles govern everything here and that they will
[1:10:44] Speaker 2: continue endlessly and that all time is a loop and
[1:10:49] Speaker 2: that there is no beginning and there is no end.
[1:10:53] Speaker 2: There is not.
[1:10:54] Speaker 1: We just go along for the ride.
[1:10:56] Speaker 2: It just loops over and over again, which means that
[1:10:59] Speaker 2: we are entering our golden age. Now, how long were
[1:11:02] Speaker 2: they in a golden age? Our previous, not Anunnaki, our
[1:11:06] Speaker 2: previous civilization here that built the pyramids and built all
[1:11:10] Speaker 2: the stuff I'm talking about at Lake Vaughan, I think
[1:11:12] Speaker 2: their golden age was 18,000 years. Which, if we think
[1:11:17] Speaker 2: that's short, imagine all that humanity has done in 500 years.
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: Absolutely.
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: Right? Now imagine if we had a golden age that
[1:11:26] Speaker 2: lasted for 18,000 to 20,000 years.
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: The video games would be very, very good.
[1:11:33] Speaker 2: They built the most incredible things we can imagine.
[1:11:35] Speaker 3: Sure.
[1:11:36] Speaker 2: But even though they lived pious lives and they were
[1:11:39] Speaker 2: spiritually ascended and higher, I think that we're only allowed
[1:11:44] Speaker 2: in this game to reach a certain level before we
[1:11:48] Speaker 2: get knocked down. Now, that's not supposed to be a
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: fear statement. And that doesn't mean at all that we're
[1:11:52] Speaker 2: about to be knocked down anytime soon.
[1:11:54] Speaker 1: No.
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: I want to be super clear about that. It just
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: means that there's like an endless game here that's based
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: on something very specific, Alex.
[1:12:01] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:12:02] Speaker 2: It's based on soul's growth in the physical and non-physical
[1:12:07] Speaker 2: spiritual realms. And we seem like we're soul's. They come
[1:12:11] Speaker 2: from potentially all over the universe. And that what's been
[1:12:14] Speaker 2: created here is just a school. It's like tending the garden, right?
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: You're tending the garden here, but the problem is that
[1:12:22] Speaker 2: we forgot that we're gardeners. We completely forgot and we
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: trash and destroy this planet. We don't realize that it's
[1:12:29] Speaker 2: like a sacred crystal planet that is one of the
[1:12:32] Speaker 2: most important planets of life, I think, in the universe.
[1:12:36] Speaker 1: And so from a soul's point of view, then... Because humanity,
[1:12:40] Speaker 1: or let's say Earth right now, is going through cycles.
[1:12:43] Speaker 1: It's constantly going through cycles. And if you're, let's say
[1:12:47] Speaker 1: you're up in heaven.
[1:12:47] Speaker 2: Just like the sun is.
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: Just like everything is.
[1:12:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're up in heaven. I'm using that. Up
[1:12:52] Speaker 1: in the spiritual realm. And we're looking down. We're like, oh, God,
[1:12:54] Speaker 1: I need to learn this lesson, this lesson, this lesson. Right. man,
[1:12:58] Speaker 1: if I really want it hard, I'm gonna have to
[1:12:59] Speaker 1: wait till these guys get to the dark ages again.
[1:13:02] Speaker 2: Timing, right?
[1:13:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm gonna like, it's like almost a hopscotch.
[1:13:05] Speaker 1: You're like, okay, okay, okay. And now, I wanna be
[1:13:09] Speaker 1: there for when the internet is born. I wanna take
[1:13:12] Speaker 1: advantage of that. I'm gonna be able to, I wanna
[1:13:15] Speaker 1: learn what being famous is, but that's not gonna be
[1:13:19] Speaker 1: available to me in the 1700s, not the way it's
[1:13:22] Speaker 1: gonna be available to me in the early 2000s. when
[1:13:25] Speaker 1: I jump on this thing called TikTok or I jump
[1:13:27] Speaker 1: on YouTube or something like, I'm using this as an
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: example to figure out how fame will, how I treat fame.
[1:13:33] Speaker 1: I want to learn about fame. I want to learn
[1:13:35] Speaker 1: about fortune and I want to lose it all. And
[1:13:36] Speaker 1: this is all planned. Like I want to lose it
[1:13:38] Speaker 1: all because I just get so far out there. I'm
[1:13:41] Speaker 1: going to lose it all and I want to see
[1:13:42] Speaker 1: how I can build myself back up. This is a school.
[1:13:45] Speaker 1: So it's constantly, so if you're saying that we're constantly
[1:13:47] Speaker 1: in a cycle, which completely makes sense, You jump in, learn,
[1:13:51] Speaker 1: come back out. Okay. When's the next one?
[1:13:54] Speaker 2: Oh, Rome.
[1:13:54] Speaker 1: That was a good one. Let me contract it.
[1:13:56] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:13:56] Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in Rome. I'll come in a
[1:13:57] Speaker 1: few cycles in Rome. The Egyptians will be a few
[1:14:00] Speaker 1: cycles and all that kind of stuff. It's souls, reincarnation
[1:14:03] Speaker 1: coming back and forth. You're constantly learning. That makes a
[1:14:07] Speaker 1: lot of sense to me because when you're saying that
[1:14:08] Speaker 1: there are rules that organize this entire game, that is
[1:14:13] Speaker 1: obvious to anyone who walks because there's something called gravity
[1:14:17] Speaker 1: that is a rule. You can't fight it. You can't
[1:14:20] Speaker 1: fight that rule. There's a rule. There's certain things that
[1:14:23] Speaker 1: happen that are not in our control.
[1:14:25] Speaker 2: No.
[1:14:26] Speaker 1: You and I are born. You and I will die.
[1:14:28] Speaker 2: Yes.
[1:14:29] Speaker 1: What time that period is when we die, we know
[1:14:31] Speaker 1: when we come in. That we have control of. We
[1:14:33] Speaker 1: have control of from the other side, have control of
[1:14:35] Speaker 1: when we're born, who we're born to, circumstances and so on.
[1:14:39] Speaker 1: How we die, we don't know what it is. We
[1:14:42] Speaker 1: don't know when the end game is for us.
[1:14:43] Speaker 2: That would spoil the whole thing.
[1:14:44] Speaker 1: That would spoil the whole thing. Imagine if you're like,
[1:14:46] Speaker 1: you know, you've got until September 32nd.
[1:14:48] Speaker 2: Right. 32nd.
[1:14:48] Speaker 1: Listen to me. But maybe in another universe. December 22nd
[1:14:53] Speaker 1: of 2079. That's when you're going out. Boom. That's it.
[1:14:58] Speaker 1: And that's it. And you're going to have fun. So
[1:15:00] Speaker 1: you got until then to make the most of this. Well,
[1:15:03] Speaker 1: if we had that end date. Kind of changed the
[1:15:05] Speaker 1: game a little bit for us.
[1:15:06] Speaker 2: It's not fun if you know that, right?
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: Well, imagine if Mario knows how to get through level two,
[1:15:11] Speaker 1: you know, and avoid everything. It's not fun anymore.
[1:15:14] Speaker 2: No.
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: They need that giant mushroom to come out and crush
[1:15:18] Speaker 1: it to understand, oh, I should... Okay, I learned that one. Well,
[1:15:22] Speaker 1: let me come back with my next life.
[1:15:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. My next life.
[1:15:25] Speaker 1: It's a video game. And our next life, we come
[1:15:27] Speaker 1: back and we keep trying it. So it's... I'm not
[1:15:31] Speaker 1: degrading or I'm not diminishing what we're going through, as
[1:15:34] Speaker 1: this is just a video game. But it is as
[1:15:38] Speaker 1: many of the sages, especially the ones on this wall, said,
[1:15:41] Speaker 1: this is not to be taken so seriously.
[1:15:43] Speaker 2: No, it's fun.
[1:15:44] Speaker 1: It's fun. And from near-death experiences I've spoken to.
[1:15:48] Speaker 2: And it's not real.
[1:15:50] Speaker 1: It's not real. This is not the real.
[1:15:51] Speaker 2: It's a complete illusion.
[1:15:52] Speaker 1: This is not real.
[1:15:53] Speaker 2: Yes.
[1:15:54] Speaker 1: And now quantum physics is talking about it. Now, you know,
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: my favorite movie, The Matrix.
[1:15:58] Speaker 3: Yes.
[1:15:59] Speaker 1: Talked about and really put that out into the zeitgeist
[1:16:01] Speaker 1: in a very, very big way. It's just fascinating about
[1:16:05] Speaker 1: all of that. And that's why I wanted to bring back,
[1:16:07] Speaker 1: because I've never asked that question. I'm like, all this
[1:16:09] Speaker 1: stuff with ancient, what does it mean for our soul?
[1:16:12] Speaker 2: Right. Let me talk about that for a minute.
[1:16:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
[1:16:14] Speaker 2: The first thing is, let's look at ancient Egypt. We
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: find out that souls are judged. It's shown in a
[1:16:21] Speaker 2: lot of steles or in murals. where they show a
[1:16:30] Speaker 2: scale with a human feather, with a feather on it,
[1:16:34] Speaker 2: and then a human heart. And it measures the weight.
[1:16:38] Speaker 2: And if it weighs more than the feather, it means
[1:16:41] Speaker 2: that you have to come back again into this incarnation cycle. Now,
[1:16:45] Speaker 2: just like in any school, some schools, in school, you
[1:16:50] Speaker 2: sometimes have to repeat grades. Oh, yeah. You did not
[1:16:53] Speaker 2: learn that. listen, you did not quite get this grade down.
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: Let's just do it over again and maybe you can
[1:17:00] Speaker 2: get it, right?
[1:17:00] Speaker 1: It's okay.
[1:17:01] Speaker 2: Everybody's progressing at their own level. I think that's how
[1:17:04] Speaker 2: souls are, is that we seem to be at many
[1:17:07] Speaker 2: different levels here. Some look like they've already graduated, but
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: they decided they want to come back. And then others
[1:17:15] Speaker 2: are like, I don't know what's going on here. I'm
[1:17:17] Speaker 2: just like figuring it out, right? And I think that
[1:17:19] Speaker 2: that's the purpose is that it's a school with a
[1:17:23] Speaker 2: lot of souls at very different levels. all at different points,
[1:17:27] Speaker 2: because if you haven't ascended a certain place, which is
[1:17:32] Speaker 2: very difficult to do, by the way, I think the
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: ascension process of a soul here is not easy, right?
[1:17:37] Speaker 2: It's like the great masters, like Buddha or something, where
[1:17:40] Speaker 2: once you do that, I think you have the choice.
[1:17:43] Speaker 2: to come back whenever you want. And you may not, though.
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, you have your PhD and you're like, you know,
[1:17:48] Speaker 1: I love humanity so much. I'm going to come back
[1:17:49] Speaker 1: and help the other ones out. Or you just go
[1:17:51] Speaker 1: on to the next one.
[1:17:52] Speaker 2: That's just my opinion based on what I've looked at
[1:17:54] Speaker 2: is that there may be a decision you can make
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: based on if you graduate, where if maybe if you
[1:18:00] Speaker 2: don't graduate, maybe those decisions aren't quite as available to you.
[1:18:03] Speaker 2: Like if you had to repeat a grade, it's not
[1:18:05] Speaker 2: really your decision, is it? You're like, I got to
[1:18:07] Speaker 2: repeat that grade. So that's where it comes in. Now,
[1:18:10] Speaker 2: I want to give an example of how I think
[1:18:12] Speaker 2: these cycles are governed. Now, again, that means that our
[1:18:16] Speaker 2: souls are being judged. Who's judging them? It's kind of weird, right? Well,
[1:18:20] Speaker 2: you find out that in the tablets, in the Legend
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: of Atana and many others, you find out that Enki was,
[1:18:27] Speaker 2: in Atrahasis, he was designated to go into the underworld
[1:18:31] Speaker 2: to deal with the determinations of souls. It's talked about that.
[1:18:36] Speaker 2: determinations of souls. And that's why we see Osiris in
[1:18:39] Speaker 2: Egypt and all these different aspects of like judging souls
[1:18:42] Speaker 2: and all this obsession with the Egyptians and Mesopotamians of
[1:18:45] Speaker 2: the underworld and like tracking where souls would go. They
[1:18:48] Speaker 2: would go through extensive lengths to try to, if someone died,
[1:18:52] Speaker 2: to try to bring their soul back in to like
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: be in that life again. They were obsessed with that.
[1:18:57] Speaker 2: And I think they were obsessed for good reason. Now,
[1:18:59] Speaker 2: let me give you an example. A lot of people
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: listening to this might, this might be good and like
[1:19:05] Speaker 2: reflect on them. They, maybe they haven't thought of this yet.
[1:19:07] Speaker 2: If you're, you're progressing in your path, right? Alex is like, man,
[1:19:12] Speaker 2: I'm still, I'm, I'm becoming pretty spiritual. I meditate, I'm
[1:19:16] Speaker 2: eating healthy. I'm treat everybody really kindly. But man, I
[1:19:19] Speaker 2: had this trauma from earlier in my life that still
[1:19:22] Speaker 2: really haunts me. And I just, I can't get past it.
[1:19:26] Speaker 2: Everything that I've seen shows that your level of consciousness
[1:19:30] Speaker 2: and the path you take is directly governed by how
[1:19:34] Speaker 2: pure and where you are on that level. Give me
[1:19:37] Speaker 2: an example. You are stuck on something you haven't dealt with.
[1:19:40] Speaker 2: You are only going to be able to progress a
[1:19:42] Speaker 2: certain amount in a way– With that baggage, the weight,
[1:19:50] Speaker 2: you'll be stuck. It's like you won't go anywhere. You
[1:19:53] Speaker 2: meet Johnny from high school, and you're like, wow, Johnny
[1:19:56] Speaker 2: hasn't really changed much since high school.
[1:19:58] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I've met those guys.
[1:20:01] Speaker 2: He's still drinking a six-pack every day, and he's watching NASCAR.
[1:20:05] Speaker 2: I don't mean to put all those people down, but
[1:20:07] Speaker 2: he hasn't changed at all. He's just still Johnny. That's great.
[1:20:10] Speaker 2: Johnny wants to be Johnny.
[1:20:13] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[1:20:19] Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
[1:20:22] Speaker 2: But you see like someone else who's completely different than
[1:20:27] Speaker 2: high school, right? Like, wow, boy, their path changed, right?
[1:20:31] Speaker 2: And they're very spiritual. They're like a completely different person.
[1:20:33] Speaker 2: I think that's how this goes, where we're being constantly
[1:20:37] Speaker 2: judged on everything we do.
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: But the one place that I disagree with you slightly-
[1:20:45] Speaker 1: is this, that I don't think that there's someone judging us.
[1:20:47] Speaker 1: I think it's us, our higher self, because we're here
[1:20:51] Speaker 1: to learn lessons. As a higher self, our oversoul, let's say,
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: we're looking down and it's not that we have to
[1:20:57] Speaker 1: come back, it's we want to come back. Because if
[1:21:00] Speaker 1: you're playing a video game, I don't know if you've
[1:21:02] Speaker 1: ever played a video game, I've gone back into hard levels.
[1:21:05] Speaker 1: I've constantly gone back in and constantly gone back in,
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: even though it might be frustrating, you might throw a
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: remote on the wall, all of that situation. But when
[1:21:12] Speaker 1: you're playing that game, got to go back in. I
[1:21:15] Speaker 1: want to figure this out. I want to go back in.
[1:21:17] Speaker 1: I want to figure it out. You could put the
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: game down for a day, two days, a month or two, whatever,
[1:21:21] Speaker 1: but you're going to come back. And when you come back,
[1:21:23] Speaker 1: you're going to be at that level in that game.
[1:21:26] Speaker 1: I'm going to, I got to go back in. So
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: I don't think it's as much that there's a judgment
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: of someone else. I think we are the judge. And
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: that's how it's been explained to me by near death
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: experiencers and other sages that I've spoken to that there
[1:21:37] Speaker 1: isn't judgment. We are our own judgment. Have you heard
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: of the life review? I'm assuming you heard of the
[1:21:41] Speaker 1: life review. That we are not judged in the life review.
[1:21:44] Speaker 1: We just feel what we did to the other. It's
[1:21:46] Speaker 1: a lesson.
[1:21:46] Speaker 2: Well, the only reason I guess I can throw a
[1:21:49] Speaker 2: little something in there that makes me justifies my statement
[1:21:51] Speaker 2: there is that one of the most common phrases used
[1:21:54] Speaker 2: in Sumerian and Akkadian and Babylonian tablets is they call
[1:21:57] Speaker 2: the Anunna at least 12 times. They call them the
[1:22:01] Speaker 2: ordainers of destinies.
[1:22:03] Speaker 1: Yeah. Of mankind. Sure.
[1:22:04] Speaker 2: Like they're governing our destinies. Right.
[1:22:07] Speaker 1: They're like the architects. Yeah.
[1:22:09] Speaker 2: And that we seem to be part of a divine
[1:22:12] Speaker 2: place that is balanced and governed and watched and carefully managed.
[1:22:18] Speaker 2: Cycles of energy here and human consciousness is carefully managed.
[1:22:22] Speaker 2: Because I mean, look at the middle ages, like the
[1:22:23] Speaker 2: dark ages. It's like we weren't allowed to have a
[1:22:26] Speaker 2: different consciousness then. And it seems like there is a
[1:22:31] Speaker 2: governing going on here at the same time. Now, I
[1:22:33] Speaker 2: agree with you that the higher self is related to
[1:22:36] Speaker 2: that as well. So I'm not going to take that out.
[1:22:38] Speaker 2: Certainly the higher self plays a part in this. But
[1:22:41] Speaker 2: that's just what I mean by there seems to be
[1:22:44] Speaker 2: a progressive system that's based on us, but also based
[1:22:48] Speaker 2: on something external, where we're We aren't allowed to reach
[1:22:52] Speaker 2: Buddha-like states unless we become pure in that Buddha-like state. Oh, no,
[1:22:56] Speaker 2: you've got to let go. You've got to lose the baggage.
[1:22:58] Speaker 2: So there's these blocks that will, like, let me give
[1:23:01] Speaker 2: you an example of this. Let's say I was to
[1:23:03] Speaker 2: sit down with just someone I meet and tell them
[1:23:06] Speaker 2: every possible spiritual enlightening thing I possibly could. It may
[1:23:10] Speaker 2: kind of impact them. It may not. Because that person
[1:23:14] Speaker 2: is at their own level. You can't tell someone something.
[1:23:18] Speaker 2: Just like you can't. They have to live and breathe it.
[1:23:21] Speaker 2: They have to become it. So it's more like we
[1:23:25] Speaker 2: have to learn the lessons ourselves and actually go through
[1:23:29] Speaker 2: them and grow rather than just being like, oh, well,
[1:23:32] Speaker 2: I know what that is.
[1:23:33] Speaker 1: Oh, no, you've got to go through it.
[1:23:34] Speaker 2: You have to be it, right? You have to be that.
[1:23:37] Speaker 1: It's not intellectual. No. It's a thing.
[1:23:39] Speaker 2: You can't be aware of spiritual teachings and not be spiritual.
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:23:43] Speaker 2: That doesn't work.
[1:23:45] Speaker 1: So on a certain level, though, as you're progressing on
[1:23:48] Speaker 1: your own consciousness, There are certain things that, let's say
[1:23:51] Speaker 1: you're a gambler and you can't get rid of gambling.
[1:23:55] Speaker 1: And I was a drinker. Oh, I drank, I drank,
[1:23:57] Speaker 1: an addiction. And I got over addiction. But you didn't
[1:24:01] Speaker 1: get over your addiction, which was gambling. As I move
[1:24:04] Speaker 1: forward in my consciousness, let's say I come back in
[1:24:07] Speaker 1: another life, that won't even affect, I won't even look
[1:24:10] Speaker 1: at addiction anymore. I conquered it in my other life.
[1:24:14] Speaker 1: So it won't even, it just won't even occur to me.
[1:24:17] Speaker 1: You might even try alcohol, which was your nemesis in
[1:24:20] Speaker 1: your former life. And you go, ugh, no thank you.
[1:24:24] Speaker 1: And you can kind of see that as our own growth.
[1:24:26] Speaker 2: Something you take back with you, right?
[1:24:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, because look, there's things that we did as kids
[1:24:31] Speaker 1: that we've outgrown.
[1:24:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, just like the soul will outgrow things.
[1:24:34] Speaker 1: Exactly, as we continue to move forward. But as you
[1:24:37] Speaker 1: evolve to master level of the game, the ascended master
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: level or a walking master like Babaji or Jesus or
[1:24:44] Speaker 1: Buddha or any of these guys, as you go through that,
[1:24:47] Speaker 1: these other things won't occur to them. So in other words,
[1:24:50] Speaker 1: let's say, I'll use it, please, please, please don't get angry.
[1:24:53] Speaker 1: Let's say Buddha and Jesus are walking down the street,
[1:24:56] Speaker 1: and there's a strip club. And they're like, you know what, man?
[1:25:01] Speaker 1: It's been a dog's age as I've walked in there.
[1:25:03] Speaker 1: Why not? You know, I wouldn't mind. That would never
[1:25:06] Speaker 1: have occurred to them.
[1:25:07] Speaker 2: No, of course not.
[1:25:08] Speaker 1: Because you're so far above that. Because it's so at
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: a different frequency from where they are. But the thing
[1:25:14] Speaker 1: is that they had to evolve past it, let go
[1:25:17] Speaker 1: of that weight to evolve past it. I always like
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: using the analogy of the ocean. So the ocean, we're
[1:25:22] Speaker 1: all the way at the bottom of the trench, the
[1:25:25] Speaker 1: Mariana Trench.
[1:25:26] Speaker 2: Mariana Trench, yeah.
[1:25:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, we're down there. And when you're down there, man, it's, oh,
[1:25:30] Speaker 1: the pressure. You can barely move. As you evolve past
[1:25:34] Speaker 1: certain things, you go higher and higher. The higher you go,
[1:25:37] Speaker 1: things get a little lighter.
[1:25:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, they definitely do.
[1:25:38] Speaker 1: They get a little lighter to the point where you
[1:25:40] Speaker 1: can break the surface. Once you break the surface, you
[1:25:42] Speaker 1: have mastered.
[1:25:43] Speaker 2: And you're never going to go back down there.
[1:25:45] Speaker 1: You've mastered it. You've mastered it. So now you're in
[1:25:47] Speaker 1: the air. How free are you in the air versus
[1:25:49] Speaker 1: even at the top three feet of water still is something.
[1:25:54] Speaker 1: So that's the evolution of consciousness is to go past
[1:25:56] Speaker 1: that ocean, to break the ocean. Does that all make sense?
[1:26:00] Speaker 2: No, it does. And actually, that's a perfect place to add.
[1:26:02] Speaker 2: I want to add something else to what we were
[1:26:04] Speaker 2: saying to the next layer is that the vision of Hermes, again, remember,
[1:26:07] Speaker 2: it's the one mind, right? God's source is this one
[1:26:11] Speaker 2: mind that creates the archetype. it creates the blueprint. And
[1:26:14] Speaker 2: then the second mind, again, the Anuno, I believe they are,
[1:26:17] Speaker 2: they're supposed to be the creators of the universe within that.
[1:26:22] Speaker 2: Then it states, though, that they're non-physical, that they're just creators,
[1:26:26] Speaker 2: and that we're created to merge matter with spirit. That's
[1:26:32] Speaker 2: what they state in that, but they state in a
[1:26:34] Speaker 2: way where it's never happened before. In the Enuma Elish,
[1:26:38] Speaker 2: they talk about having to take a slain god, like
[1:26:41] Speaker 2: the blood, and then infusing whatever they had, which is
[1:26:46] Speaker 2: interesting if it's a non-physical being. I mean, they can
[1:26:48] Speaker 2: obviously become physical, but what I mean is the process
[1:26:52] Speaker 2: of us being created seems to be more like molding
[1:26:55] Speaker 2: something that they state like we're like clay. In the tablets,
[1:26:58] Speaker 2: they call us like being molded like clay into something perfect.
[1:27:02] Speaker 2: But the one I'm trying to make is it's like
[1:27:04] Speaker 2: a hierarchy.
[1:27:05] Speaker 1: Oh, there's an organization to this.
[1:27:07] Speaker 2: It's this source that created everything, then there are these
[1:27:11] Speaker 2: creators within, fractals within that, that are creating everything around it.
[1:27:15] Speaker 2: We get then created by them, which is doing it
[1:27:19] Speaker 2: in a hierarchy of the source, but we're being, we're
[1:27:24] Speaker 2: created in that way so that we can experience a
[1:27:27] Speaker 2: physical reality in a physical place and have mortality, but
[1:27:31] Speaker 2: still have a path back to where we started.
[1:27:33] Speaker 1: Right, because if we're down here for the next, you know,
[1:27:35] Speaker 1: whatever thousand, endlessly, then the game is useless. It's kind
[1:27:39] Speaker 1: of like, I don't know if you remember the game Contra.
[1:27:42] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
[1:27:43] Speaker 1: Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start.
[1:27:45] Speaker 1: That's invincibility.
[1:27:47] Speaker 2: I don't know about you.
[1:27:48] Speaker 1: Once you beat the game 45 times.
[1:27:50] Speaker 2: Did you?
[1:27:50] Speaker 1: Of course, a thousand times I beat that game.
[1:27:54] Speaker 2: It's a hard game.
[1:27:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, Contra was a hard game, the original one. But
[1:27:58] Speaker 1: once you have invincibility, you fly through it. After I
[1:28:02] Speaker 1: beat it, I would just sit down and just play
[1:28:04] Speaker 1: it for fun, just to beat it. And then afterwards,
[1:28:06] Speaker 1: I'd go back and go, you know, I want to
[1:28:08] Speaker 1: see if I can beat this without it. And I
[1:28:10] Speaker 1: would literally challenge myself, even though I knew everything that
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: was going to come. I didn't have the weaponry. I
[1:28:15] Speaker 1: didn't have, all I had was the knowledge and I
[1:28:18] Speaker 1: would test myself. And I use this as an analogy
[1:28:21] Speaker 1: because once you have everything, it gets boring.
[1:28:25] Speaker 2: Yes. I think actually that's a major reason why we're
[1:28:28] Speaker 2: here is I think through boredom. Right.
[1:28:31] Speaker 1: It's like there's so much stuff going on here.
[1:28:33] Speaker 2: I think that Source created us to experience the ultimate story.
[1:28:38] Speaker 1: Right. Oh, we're very exciting down here. This is the
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: ultimate reality show.
[1:28:42] Speaker 2: Just imagine the human saga, like being created in perfection,
[1:28:45] Speaker 2: rising up, creating the greatest temples and pyramids the world
[1:28:47] Speaker 2: has ever known, only to all be destroyed and then
[1:28:50] Speaker 2: have to start over again. and then rise back up
[1:28:52] Speaker 2: and not remember who you were.
[1:28:53] Speaker 1: And it's a different timeline.
[1:28:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a whole different timeline.
[1:28:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like we're going to do the same
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: exact technology, the exact same thing.
[1:28:59] Speaker 2: Then you go down a totally different path than you
[1:29:01] Speaker 2: once did, and you're exploring like AI and all this
[1:29:03] Speaker 2: tech and everything. You're like, wait a minute though, what
[1:29:05] Speaker 2: about this whole disconnection from spirit? And I think that's
[1:29:08] Speaker 2: where we are right now. Yeah. Is we have everything
[1:29:11] Speaker 2: techie we can use, but now we just need to
[1:29:13] Speaker 2: incorporate and bring us back into spirit and nature. See,
[1:29:16] Speaker 2: that's the core of this now. One of the most
[1:29:19] Speaker 2: common things that's shown in these teachings from like the
[1:29:21] Speaker 2: Kef Box Relief that I talk about that were woven
[1:29:24] Speaker 2: around the world is this essential component that we must
[1:29:28] Speaker 2: have to being connected to the garden. and balance. It
[1:29:32] Speaker 2: shows this over and over again with the tree of
[1:29:34] Speaker 2: life in these doorways, these triptych doorways of balance. And
[1:29:37] Speaker 2: it describes how there's three totalities and three aspects of us.
[1:29:42] Speaker 2: And you know this as the Trinity, right? It's the Father, Son,
[1:29:45] Speaker 2: the Holy Ghost, but in non-religious terms, it's the mind,
[1:29:49] Speaker 2: the body, and the spirit. And they discuss in that,
[1:29:53] Speaker 2: it shows in that the teachings about how if the
[1:29:55] Speaker 2: three of those are balanced, it unlocks this other door
[1:29:59] Speaker 2: that basically you become like God once you unlock and
[1:30:02] Speaker 2: balance all those things. And it's like this teaching of
[1:30:05] Speaker 2: how to achieve our highest states. And it's right there
[1:30:08] Speaker 2: in front of us. It's right there. But one of
[1:30:11] Speaker 2: the cores of it is this essential component of us
[1:30:13] Speaker 2: realizing our place within nature and within the universe and
[1:30:17] Speaker 2: our role within cycles and balance. Balance is the key.
[1:30:21] Speaker 2: It's the theme that's over and over and over shown
[1:30:25] Speaker 2: on everything. is not only us understanding our balance, but
[1:30:28] Speaker 2: understanding our balance within nature, and that we seem to
[1:30:32] Speaker 2: be stewards of this great place. Now, what are we
[1:30:35] Speaker 2: created for then?
[1:30:38] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[1:30:44] Speaker 3: And now, back to the show.
[1:30:48] Speaker 2: One of the reasons seems to be to rise up
[1:30:50] Speaker 2: to become the stewards or gardeners of this world. They
[1:30:54] Speaker 2: show them as maintaining that, which is really interesting that they,
[1:30:58] Speaker 2: it goes all the way back to them maintaining balance
[1:31:00] Speaker 2: here with the earth, like it, like the earth can
[1:31:02] Speaker 2: on its own. And it's, they're like, they have a
[1:31:04] Speaker 2: hand in maintaining balance. You can see that very clearly
[1:31:07] Speaker 2: and that we're being groomed to like be them. That's what,
[1:31:11] Speaker 2: that's what it's very interesting when you read, right. The
[1:31:14] Speaker 2: myth of Adapa or Atrahasis, it talks about how we're
[1:31:17] Speaker 2: created to alleviate the workload of the gods.
[1:31:19] Speaker 1: That's what it says.
[1:31:20] Speaker 2: So people are like, oh, does that mean slavery? No,
[1:31:22] Speaker 2: I think it means co-creation within this reality. And that
[1:31:25] Speaker 2: we are being groomed to eventually, as a society, rise
[1:31:31] Speaker 2: back up again to become spiritual beings that are tending
[1:31:36] Speaker 2: this garden. What would this world be, Alex? This planet?
[1:31:40] Speaker 2: If everyone just cleaned up all the trash, built with
[1:31:44] Speaker 2: sacred geometry structures, replanted all the trees everywhere, still had cities,
[1:31:50] Speaker 2: but woven into nature, and into divine sacred principles, what
[1:31:55] Speaker 2: would this world be like? It'd be like a paradise.
[1:31:57] Speaker 2: It would be a garden, a giant paradise garden. I
[1:32:00] Speaker 2: think that's the end game. That's what we're trying to
[1:32:02] Speaker 2: get back to is realizing our role in doing it.
[1:32:06] Speaker 2: And let me give you another example. If anybody is
[1:32:09] Speaker 2: more in tuned with feeling things around them, they go
[1:32:13] Speaker 2: to like an inner city, right? cars beeping and sirens
[1:32:17] Speaker 2: going off and you're like, someone who's in tune that
[1:32:20] Speaker 2: comes from nature is going to be like, oh my god,
[1:32:22] Speaker 2: I need to get out of here. This is bad, right?
[1:32:24] Speaker 2: This is disruptive. It's horrible for people. Now, some just
[1:32:27] Speaker 2: aren't in tune to that. That doesn't bother them. But
[1:32:30] Speaker 2: someone like me, that really bothers me. Now, let's take
[1:32:33] Speaker 2: the same example. Go to a botanical garden, right? Not
[1:32:37] Speaker 2: only just nature, but nature designed really beautifully. We have
[1:32:43] Speaker 2: to play a hand in it, though. We have to
[1:32:45] Speaker 2: be the gardeners in that. Well, someone who's sensitive, go
[1:32:50] Speaker 2: to that place. What does that feel like? You step out,
[1:32:54] Speaker 2: you're sitting in this perfect spot with a little beautiful
[1:32:58] Speaker 2: stream that's been created with a little waterfall that goes
[1:33:00] Speaker 2: over full of flowers. You're sitting maybe in this beautiful
[1:33:02] Speaker 2: spot under a big tree, this perfect meditation spot. The
[1:33:06] Speaker 2: energy is completely different there than it is in that
[1:33:09] Speaker 2: inner city.
[1:33:10] Speaker 1: Why? Because it's different.
[1:33:13] Speaker 2: But why is the energy different? What are we doing there?
[1:33:16] Speaker 2: What's happening there, Alex?
[1:33:18] Speaker 1: Well, the difference is... So say it again. So we're
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: talking about the.
[1:33:22] Speaker 2: Some sacred geometry with plants and water and something beautiful
[1:33:25] Speaker 2: that's been designed.
[1:33:26] Speaker 1: And then?
[1:33:27] Speaker 2: And then.
[1:33:27] Speaker 1: Inner city.
[1:33:28] Speaker 2: An inner city that's built with bad things like metal
[1:33:32] Speaker 2: and rough things.
[1:33:34] Speaker 1: One is built with consciousness and the frequency of that
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: consciousness is on a much higher level. Where the other
[1:33:40] Speaker 1: one It's also built with consciousness, but at a very
[1:33:42] Speaker 1: low level.
[1:33:43] Speaker 2: Are they both the earth?
[1:33:44] Speaker 1: They're both exactly, yeah. But the frequency is different.
[1:33:48] Speaker 2: Well, then why don't we just create the whole world
[1:33:50] Speaker 2: like that then?
[1:33:51] Speaker 1: Because people aren't all at the same frequency.
[1:33:53] Speaker 2: We haven't gotten to that point.
[1:33:54] Speaker 1: Correct.
[1:33:54] Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying is that that's why we're stewards.
[1:33:57] Speaker 2: We're supposed to create a paradise here.
[1:33:59] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:33:59] Speaker 2: We're supposed to create a new Eden.
[1:34:01] Speaker 1: Eventually.
[1:34:02] Speaker 2: We're supposed to turn this world because, and I want
[1:34:04] Speaker 2: to tell you why. Some people are like, who cares
[1:34:06] Speaker 2: about all these gardens and stuff? What does that do? Mm-hmm.
[1:34:09] Speaker 2: I think it creates magic. Literal magic with a K
[1:34:14] Speaker 2: at the end. Not sleight of hand magic, but actual
[1:34:17] Speaker 2: energetic magic. I think it changes our entire ability to create.
[1:34:22] Speaker 2: Our entire ability to be a higher form and to
[1:34:26] Speaker 2: be a higher spiritual being, it requires that.
[1:34:29] Speaker 1: So what you're saying is something that has been talked
[1:34:32] Speaker 1: about in the yogic texts, in the Vedic texts for years,
[1:34:35] Speaker 1: the yogis. the yogis who eventually get to master level
[1:34:40] Speaker 1: in this form. And they eventually could become ascended masters,
[1:34:44] Speaker 1: but many of them just leave and many do come back.
[1:34:47] Speaker 1: But they're able to manifest things, yogic powers that manifest.
[1:34:52] Speaker 2: Right, like levitating and stuff.
[1:34:53] Speaker 1: Levitating and being by a location. And then you look
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: at Jesus' story and you're like, Well, he's a great yogi.
[1:35:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. Just like all the sages. All of them,
[1:35:03] Speaker 2: all of them, Buddha, all of them. It's been the
[1:35:04] Speaker 2: same thing all along.
[1:35:05] Speaker 1: It's all the same thing. Just like Adapa, it's the
[1:35:07] Speaker 1: same thing. Exactly. So they're all just at a higher
[1:35:09] Speaker 1: level to create. We're all trying to get there.
[1:35:12] Speaker 2: To guide the rest of them.
[1:35:13] Speaker 1: And they're shown as examples of what you can become.
[1:35:16] Speaker 2: Jesus literally said it.
[1:35:18] Speaker 1: He's like, you can do what I can do and more.
[1:35:21] Speaker 2: But it was almost like our consciousness at that time
[1:35:23] Speaker 2: wasn't ready. No. We had to have those for a
[1:35:26] Speaker 2: future time. to leave behind, which is interesting. Again, it
[1:35:30] Speaker 2: gets into the governing of consciousness and levels of where
[1:35:33] Speaker 2: we're supposed to be. But the more I've looked into
[1:35:36] Speaker 2: all of it, the more, like give me an example,
[1:35:39] Speaker 2: look at ancient Sumer, like Babylon, the Babylonian gardens, the
[1:35:42] Speaker 2: hanging gardens. They were creating these places because they knew.
[1:35:45] Speaker 2: A lot of Hindu temples, same thing. All these practices
[1:35:49] Speaker 2: of where these great sages and masters were, They weren't
[1:35:52] Speaker 2: in some disgusting, trash-ridden place. They were meditating in a beautiful,
[1:35:57] Speaker 2: pure place. And again, I get back to that term
[1:35:59] Speaker 2: that the Yanuna used when creating the first cities ever.
[1:36:03] Speaker 2: They said, in pure places. Lay the bricks in pure places.
[1:36:08] Speaker 2: There's an energy here. There's an energy that we have
[1:36:11] Speaker 2: to understand that's relating to this. And now we go
[1:36:14] Speaker 2: and seek those places because they're beautiful, but we don't
[1:36:17] Speaker 2: create them. And I find that very interesting, the disconnect
[1:36:20] Speaker 2: between us creating those and us being like, oh, hey,
[1:36:23] Speaker 2: I want to go camping because I can't stand it
[1:36:25] Speaker 2: here any longer, so I want to go up into
[1:36:26] Speaker 2: the mountains.
[1:36:27] Speaker 1: But the belief in ourselves is that we can't create that.
[1:36:30] Speaker 2: No, because we haven't understood that we're creators yet, that
[1:36:33] Speaker 2: we're divine creators of the universe. Exactly.
[1:36:35] Speaker 1: That's what sacred geometry is.
[1:36:36] Speaker 2: And that's the point is that can you take this
[1:36:39] Speaker 2: incredibly powerful being that's a creator and put it into
[1:36:43] Speaker 2: a mortal body, have it forget nearly everything, and then
[1:36:47] Speaker 2: see what happens? I want to add one more thing.
[1:36:50] Speaker 2: In the vision of Hermes, again, one more thing is
[1:36:51] Speaker 2: it describes how mankind ended up falling in love with
[1:36:54] Speaker 2: its shadow. It fell in love with its shadow in
[1:36:58] Speaker 2: the material realm of this place. And that it ended
[1:37:03] Speaker 2: up becoming almost bound to it because it wanted... It
[1:37:07] Speaker 2: wanted to exist here so much that it fought against
[1:37:11] Speaker 2: being a spiritual being.
[1:37:12] Speaker 1: Right. Oh, this is very exciting.
[1:37:13] Speaker 2: And sending back out.
[1:37:14] Speaker 1: This is very toxic.
[1:37:15] Speaker 2: And so we become lost in the illusion here without
[1:37:18] Speaker 2: realizing that this is just the teaching school for reaching
[1:37:21] Speaker 2: higher souls and creating a beautiful garden. Again, I want
[1:37:24] Speaker 2: to reiterate one day within the next couple hundred years,
[1:37:28] Speaker 2: we will get to the point where our earth will
[1:37:30] Speaker 2: become a paradise. And then we will unlock all the
[1:37:33] Speaker 2: magic that we've been waiting for all along. We're waiting
[1:37:36] Speaker 2: for saviors and all these things to come.
[1:37:38] Speaker 1: It's just us.
[1:37:39] Speaker 2: We have to find and become our own savior and
[1:37:43] Speaker 2: put the pieces back together, the remnants of what the
[1:37:46] Speaker 2: ancients were trying to teach us on how to do
[1:37:48] Speaker 2: that all along. It's never going to be handed to
[1:37:51] Speaker 2: us again. The keys were handed to us once, and
[1:37:54] Speaker 2: I believe that was at Ionis. That's why I told
[1:37:56] Speaker 2: you I think that's one of the most holy places
[1:37:58] Speaker 2: on earth. I think the keys were handed to us
[1:38:00] Speaker 2: then on how to create everything. And then we lost
[1:38:05] Speaker 2: them and it's our job to find them again. And
[1:38:08] Speaker 2: that's the beauty of that story is that we're finding
[1:38:11] Speaker 2: our way back to where we started and that's how
[1:38:13] Speaker 2: it's supposed to be.
[1:38:15] Speaker 1: Matt, I have to ask you, man, you, you've said
[1:38:17] Speaker 1: in this, in this interview that you're very evidence-based.
[1:38:20] Speaker 2: Yes.
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: Uh, and all your research, you, you focus on that,
[1:38:23] Speaker 1: that that's, you pride yourself on that. Well, we've just
[1:38:26] Speaker 1: been having like a 45-minute conversation about the soul and
[1:38:29] Speaker 1: about higher consciousness and frequencies and all this stuff that
[1:38:32] Speaker 1: have no real place in evidence.
[1:38:36] Speaker 2: I'd love to hear where you.
[1:38:37] Speaker 1: Because you are a very factual person and a very
[1:38:40] Speaker 1: evidence-based person, but yet you had a very esoteric conversation
[1:38:43] Speaker 1: with me about the soul and about the evolution of
[1:38:46] Speaker 1: a soul. Where do you come from? How do you
[1:38:49] Speaker 1: have that belief system?
[1:38:50] Speaker 2: Well, I mean, where does evidence come from? Are we
[1:38:52] Speaker 2: talking about climatic evidence? Are we talking about something written down? Well,
[1:38:55] Speaker 2: how about nearly every ancient culture around the world saying
[1:38:58] Speaker 2: the same thing? That's your evidence. I mean, again, you
[1:39:02] Speaker 2: look at everything from Hindu cultures to Mesopotamian cultures to,
[1:39:05] Speaker 2: like I said, the Ararat civilization to ancient Peru, ancient Egypt.
[1:39:09] Speaker 2: they're all essentially saying the same thing. They're just saying
[1:39:13] Speaker 2: that the soul is a spiritual being here for a
[1:39:16] Speaker 2: mortal experience that is trying to learn the valuable lessons
[1:39:19] Speaker 2: to grow and ascend. And it really just comes down
[1:39:23] Speaker 2: to slight variations of the same thing. Now, the other
[1:39:27] Speaker 2: piece of it is I've lived it. I've taken all
[1:39:31] Speaker 2: those teachings and incorporated them into my life. I've had...
[1:39:34] Speaker 2: profound experiences of waking up for the first time when
[1:39:38] Speaker 2: I wasn't awake. 15 years ago or so, whatever it was,
[1:39:42] Speaker 2: being at that point where you were a very different person.
[1:39:45] Speaker 2: And you go through this massive awakening that comes in
[1:39:49] Speaker 2: the forms of every different kind of different level and
[1:39:52] Speaker 2: different way for everyone else. For me, it was kind
[1:39:55] Speaker 2: of like a freight train. Oh, yeah.
[1:39:57] Speaker 1: Okay.
[1:39:57] Speaker 2: For me, it was like literally within, I would say,
[1:40:01] Speaker 2: two weeks of you wouldn't even know who I was.
[1:40:06] Speaker 2: At the end of a two-week period of having it all,
[1:40:08] Speaker 2: because it all happens.
[1:40:09] Speaker 1: When you're ready for it. It's like a download.
[1:40:11] Speaker 2: And then you all of a sudden start figuring stuff out,
[1:40:13] Speaker 2: and then you start reformulating your reality, and you're like,
[1:40:16] Speaker 2: oh my God. And so the two pieces of evidence
[1:40:20] Speaker 2: I use are ancient tablets and ancient texts around the
[1:40:22] Speaker 2: world that all describe incarnation, the soul, and the purpose,
[1:40:26] Speaker 2: like the hermetic stuff, all of that. But then take even,
[1:40:29] Speaker 2: and the tablets, they talk about a lot of that
[1:40:31] Speaker 2: as well.
[1:40:34] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[1:40:40] Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
[1:40:43] Speaker 2: But then take, how about real experiences? Putting into practice
[1:40:48] Speaker 2: the same things that they talked about.
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: What happens? What do you feel?
[1:40:53] Speaker 2: What kind of experiences do you have? And I can
[1:40:55] Speaker 2: tell you that anyone who's had those experiences is out-of-body
[1:40:59] Speaker 2: meditation experiences where they get to some divine place or
[1:41:03] Speaker 2: they get guidance or they have moments of just like
[1:41:06] Speaker 2: pure beauty that are beyond comprehension, you don't need anything else.
[1:41:11] Speaker 2: You end up getting more evidence than you could ever
[1:41:13] Speaker 2: imagine in your life. And then you go on this
[1:41:15] Speaker 2: path of like on a loudspeaker where you're like, hey, guys,
[1:41:18] Speaker 2: what's everyone doing? Come on, don't you? No, everybody's at
[1:41:21] Speaker 2: their own level. Everyone's at their own level as a soul, right?
[1:41:26] Speaker 2: And they have to progress at their own level. And
[1:41:29] Speaker 2: you can't force a horse to drink water. You can't
[1:41:35] Speaker 2: force it, as that old saying goes. Every individual soul
[1:41:39] Speaker 2: has to decide when they're ready. Right.
[1:41:41] Speaker 1: You can't force them to do it.
[1:41:42] Speaker 2: And in the end of the day, they can argue
[1:41:45] Speaker 2: till the cows come home if they want to be
[1:41:47] Speaker 2: in this world animated as something that just dies and
[1:41:50] Speaker 2: has no spirit and no connection to source, but you're
[1:41:52] Speaker 2: going to live a pretty empty life and you're not
[1:41:55] Speaker 2: going to take back a lot with you.
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: Right.
[1:41:57] Speaker 2: And so in the end, that's where I come from
[1:42:00] Speaker 2: is that every ancient teaching, everything seems to be mimicking,
[1:42:04] Speaker 2: especially this, these, these new archeological sites that I'm talking
[1:42:07] Speaker 2: about that have all of those teachings in them, in these,
[1:42:10] Speaker 2: in these reliefs and in these walls carved into them.
[1:42:14] Speaker 2: And you're looking at it and you're like, Wait, so
[1:42:17] Speaker 2: seemingly every spiritual teaching seems to all be in one
[1:42:19] Speaker 2: place here. So it seems like it was all handed
[1:42:23] Speaker 2: to us at one time. And then what happened to us? Well,
[1:42:27] Speaker 2: we became the greatest civilization we've ever become. And now
[1:42:30] Speaker 2: we're trying to get back to that. But that's the
[1:42:32] Speaker 2: beauty of it, Alex, right? I like to look at
[1:42:35] Speaker 2: it this way. When all else fails, when it seems
[1:42:38] Speaker 2: that all is lost... and we seem to be going
[1:42:41] Speaker 2: the wrong direction, and we are technologically advanced but spiritually primitive,
[1:42:47] Speaker 2: at the last moment, it seems like we're not gonna
[1:42:50] Speaker 2: be able to do it, we do. And it's beautiful.
[1:42:53] Speaker 2: Because it's like watching a great movie where you have
[1:42:56] Speaker 2: no idea how the outcome is gonna go, and you
[1:42:58] Speaker 2: don't know how it's gonna be, but you know that
[1:43:01] Speaker 2: all truly great stories have happy endings. They don't. All
[1:43:07] Speaker 2: great stories have some kind of a great ending. just
[1:43:09] Speaker 2: like us, but there's no ending. It's just endless cycles
[1:43:13] Speaker 2: of rising up and falling down and rising up and
[1:43:15] Speaker 2: falling down. But in between there's beauty, there's light, there's love.
[1:43:20] Speaker 2: There's us finally realizing that perhaps having this experience here
[1:43:26] Speaker 2: on earth and having this experience in a physical reality
[1:43:28] Speaker 2: may be the greatest possible experience you could have. And
[1:43:33] Speaker 2: maybe we're just taking it for granted.
[1:43:35] Speaker 1: Oh, there's no question that we're taking it for granted.
[1:43:37] Speaker 1: There's no question. Which then, and again, from my research
[1:43:42] Speaker 1: in doing this show and speaking to different people from
[1:43:45] Speaker 1: different walks of life, the concept of this scenario of
[1:43:50] Speaker 1: humanity or this game being played in another world around
[1:43:54] Speaker 1: the universe, because it just makes no sense logically. It
[1:43:56] Speaker 1: has to be something else. But there's different variations on difficulty.
[1:44:01] Speaker 1: And like, hey, you know, I was talking to somebody,
[1:44:04] Speaker 1: a near-death experience the other day, like, Would you go
[1:44:07] Speaker 1: to a world that there's just not a whole lot
[1:44:08] Speaker 1: going on? Everything's great, cool.
[1:44:11] Speaker 2: I don't think souls would incarnate there.
[1:44:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you just kind of like want to
[1:44:15] Speaker 1: chill in the material world and have a couple little
[1:44:17] Speaker 1: challenges here and there, then maybe. Or do you want
[1:44:20] Speaker 1: to go on a roller coaster? There's this place called Earth.
[1:44:24] Speaker 2: It's like the party. It's like where it's at, right?
[1:44:26] Speaker 1: This is where it's at. And apparently at this time
[1:44:29] Speaker 1: in our cycle is very exciting to me. Because the
[1:44:33] Speaker 1: Dark Ages, oof, that's a rough, that's a wooden roller
[1:44:37] Speaker 1: coaster that's been around for a few years.
[1:44:39] Speaker 2: One heck of a human story to go through all that, right?
[1:44:41] Speaker 2: Imagine when we had castles and we're fighting each other.
[1:44:45] Speaker 2: And look at what we've become. We've gone from that
[1:44:48] Speaker 2: back up again. And it's just beautiful to see the
[1:44:51] Speaker 2: human story.
[1:44:53] Speaker 1: No, absolutely. And you go back to, I mean, everyone
[1:44:56] Speaker 1: talks about the Egyptians, but then you go into the
[1:44:57] Speaker 1: Roman times. Rome was around for over a thousand years.
[1:45:02] Speaker 1: That's a hell of a long dynasty.
[1:45:04] Speaker 2: The greatest, the longest empire that's ever lived.
[1:45:06] Speaker 1: Really? I mean, the Egyptians had it, but they just
[1:45:07] Speaker 1: jumped up and they came and crashed them down. But
[1:45:11] Speaker 1: what Rome did was magnificent. I mean, brutal, but magnificent.
[1:45:16] Speaker 2: They did great things and bad things.
[1:45:18] Speaker 1: I think all civilizations do.
[1:45:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
[1:45:21] Speaker 1: All empires do. There's no pure empire.
[1:45:23] Speaker 2: To be an empire is also unsustainable, by the way,
[1:45:27] Speaker 2: as well. Right.
[1:45:28] Speaker 1: Always. Always, exactly. But what they did was remarkable. And
[1:45:31] Speaker 1: then to see at the end when it came down
[1:45:33] Speaker 1: and what caused it to go down, and then it
[1:45:37] Speaker 1: goes right into the Roman Catholic Church, which... all the
[1:45:39] Speaker 1: riches went into there, all the knowledge went into there,
[1:45:42] Speaker 1: to see where we're now at. I mean, to look
[1:45:45] Speaker 1: back at, look, when I was in Italy and I'm
[1:45:48] Speaker 1: walking around these churches, you couldn't, my wife couldn't walk
[1:45:51] Speaker 1: in with a tank top on to a church. She
[1:45:55] Speaker 1: had to get, they had to give out like this
[1:45:58] Speaker 1: rinky dink shawl, like, you know, this paper to cover
[1:46:01] Speaker 1: her shoulders because that's too revealing to be in the church.
[1:46:05] Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there going, We're still there. Are you
[1:46:08] Speaker 1: out of your mind? It was 2023 when I went.
[1:46:13] Speaker 1: I'm like, what? That's how far down the dogma hole
[1:46:18] Speaker 1: these people were at. I'm like, wow, man. There's a
[1:46:23] Speaker 1: lot of work to be done still.
[1:46:24] Speaker 2: I know, but it's good work. And you know, we're
[1:46:27] Speaker 2: progressing exactly the way we're supposed to. And it's beautiful
[1:46:30] Speaker 2: to see that when all seems lost and there's these
[1:46:34] Speaker 2: terrible moments, you know, like horrible wars or things we've
[1:46:37] Speaker 2: gone through. Like humanity always gets through and we have,
[1:46:40] Speaker 2: I just feel very humbled to be part of such
[1:46:43] Speaker 2: an incredible time right now.
[1:46:45] Speaker 1: Oh my God.
[1:46:45] Speaker 2: When we can be here sitting here having this conversation.
[1:46:48] Speaker 1: In public.
[1:46:49] Speaker 2: In public and to not be worried that I'm gonna
[1:46:51] Speaker 2: get hung if I go outside, right? If I earned
[1:46:55] Speaker 2: at the stake or something, but we're in this beautiful
[1:46:57] Speaker 2: time when all of humanity's ideas can at least be
[1:47:00] Speaker 2: shared and we can talk about all of them, we
[1:47:02] Speaker 2: can come together, and we're naturally getting to that place
[1:47:05] Speaker 2: where humanity is, as a global civilization, is truly getting
[1:47:10] Speaker 2: on a place where we're all finally realizing that we're
[1:47:13] Speaker 2: humans and that we're not competing on anything, And then
[1:47:16] Speaker 2: we're all just here for basically the same reason.
[1:47:20] Speaker 1: One last question I wanted to ask you, Matt, before
[1:47:21] Speaker 1: we finish up is you mentioned Antarctica before. What do
[1:47:26] Speaker 1: you think is there, man?
[1:47:27] Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't always us. Usually my answer on
[1:47:30] Speaker 2: Antarctica is pretty disappointing to people.
[1:47:32] Speaker 1: Go for it, go for it.
[1:47:33] Speaker 2: And I'll just preface by saying that. I have studied
[1:47:37] Speaker 2: quite a bit of geology. And I will say that
[1:47:41] Speaker 2: it's interesting what can happen when you have relatively young
[1:47:46] Speaker 2: mountains that end up getting encased in ice and aren't
[1:47:49] Speaker 2: allowed to have erosion. And they're almost stuck in that state.
[1:47:53] Speaker 2: They can have very sharp edges. because of the fact
[1:47:57] Speaker 2: that they have no erosion at all. And we know
[1:48:00] Speaker 2: the Antarctic ice crack cap is roughly 500,000 years old.
[1:48:04] Speaker 2: We know that by ice core samples. So a lot
[1:48:07] Speaker 2: of people want me to say, oh, there's a civilization
[1:48:10] Speaker 2: hiding under the ice and those are pyramids sticking up.
[1:48:12] Speaker 2: I can't say that. However, I will add to this,
[1:48:15] Speaker 2: I will add one little piece to that, is that
[1:48:17] Speaker 2: I do think though that there a lot of mysterious
[1:48:21] Speaker 2: things going on in Antarctica. And I think it has
[1:48:24] Speaker 2: more to do with the toroidal energy field of the
[1:48:26] Speaker 2: Earth though. Regarding technologies and things that are going on
[1:48:31] Speaker 2: down there, way down, maybe relating to preventing some kind
[1:48:35] Speaker 2: of a disaster with our Earth or preventing the way
[1:48:38] Speaker 2: that the sun is going through very, very large changes
[1:48:41] Speaker 2: right now. And I think they're using, my opinion is
[1:48:45] Speaker 2: they're using technologies down there to somehow manipulate the toroidal
[1:48:50] Speaker 2: energy of the earth because of magnetism. Because of what
[1:48:53] Speaker 2: I think they learned about what happened to the ancients
[1:48:56] Speaker 2: with when the magnetic poles start shifting and you get
[1:48:59] Speaker 2: tectonic movements and you get a lot of very, very
[1:49:01] Speaker 2: bad things on the earth that happen when the sun
[1:49:04] Speaker 2: goes through massive cycles. And it's just part of these cycles.
[1:49:08] Speaker 2: But the real question is, are we in one of
[1:49:10] Speaker 2: those again? And are they quietly preventing something like that
[1:49:17] Speaker 2: from happening? I mean, give me an example. Look at
[1:49:19] Speaker 2: the North Pole. Since the 90s, it's been rapidly shifting
[1:49:23] Speaker 2: and they've had to go up and do a lot
[1:49:24] Speaker 2: of new readings on where magnetic north is for flying.
[1:49:28] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, flight stuff. It's a big deal. It's been
[1:49:31] Speaker 2: shifting and moving around up there. And that is always
[1:49:34] Speaker 2: indicative of massive increases in sun activity that disrupt the
[1:49:39] Speaker 2: magnetosphere of the Earth, which is what I think destroyed, ultimately,
[1:49:42] Speaker 2: the lost civilizations of our past.
[1:49:44] Speaker 1: So do you think the shifts, I mean, from what
[1:49:46] Speaker 1: I understand, they will shift. That Hawaii will be north eventually,
[1:49:51] Speaker 1: who knows?
[1:49:52] Speaker 2: I think that Those are extreme examples of that have happened.
[1:49:57] Speaker 2: Just a wobble can cause problems. They don't have to shift.
[1:50:00] Speaker 2: South doesn't have to become north and north becomes south.
[1:50:04] Speaker 2: That's extreme. I think that might be the end of everything.
[1:50:07] Speaker 1: That destroys everything.
[1:50:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, but what we mean is moving to another position. Like,
[1:50:12] Speaker 2: give me an example.
[1:50:13] Speaker 1: 45 feet left.
[1:50:14] Speaker 2: Let me give you an example, actually. If you look
[1:50:16] Speaker 2: at where the ice was during the last ice age,
[1:50:19] Speaker 2: the Laurentide Ice Sheet, the Scandinavian Ice Sheets, you'll see
[1:50:22] Speaker 2: that the ice was not around where today would be
[1:50:24] Speaker 2: our poles. parts of northern Siberia and Alaska were ice-free
[1:50:29] Speaker 2: during the last ice age. Really bizarre that people don't
[1:50:31] Speaker 2: think of. Whereas there was an enormous amount of ice
[1:50:34] Speaker 2: in Canada and parts of, I guess, Scandinavia and other places.
[1:50:38] Speaker 2: But it's revolving around an area that would be what
[1:50:43] Speaker 2: looks very, very like, and temples that have been aligned
[1:50:45] Speaker 2: to magnetic north and true north that are not there anymore,
[1:50:48] Speaker 2: suggest that the Earth's axis and where the magnetic north
[1:50:52] Speaker 2: pole is is not where it was then.
[1:50:56] Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
[1:51:02] Speaker 3: And now, back to the show.
[1:51:06] Speaker 2: Which shows that it shifted pretty dramatically, which is what
[1:51:09] Speaker 2: could have caused their destruction. Again, that's what I think
[1:51:13] Speaker 2: is maybe going on in Antarctica, is playing around with
[1:51:16] Speaker 2: that because we're so susceptible to it. If the magnetosphere
[1:51:21] Speaker 2: changes too quickly and the poles shift, You can get
[1:51:24] Speaker 2: just colossal catastrophes around the earth. And so that may
[1:51:29] Speaker 2: be what's going on down there. And certainly we seem
[1:51:34] Speaker 2: to have the ability to potentially like prevent our own
[1:51:36] Speaker 2: destruction in that way. Whereas look at all the pyramids
[1:51:41] Speaker 2: in ancient times and all the temples built on ley lines.
[1:51:43] Speaker 2: They seem to be trying to balance that. That's, again,
[1:51:47] Speaker 2: that's a whole other conversation we could get into another show.
[1:51:50] Speaker 2: But whether or not all these temples and pyramids, their
[1:51:52] Speaker 2: purpose was beyond just human consciousness and reaching higher states
[1:51:56] Speaker 2: and everything, but was actually about being an aspect of
[1:52:00] Speaker 2: balancing the energy of the earth. And there's evidence in
[1:52:04] Speaker 2: places like the Serapium where some of the granite boxes
[1:52:08] Speaker 2: literally exploded. Exploded during the last Younger Dryas when potentially
[1:52:15] Speaker 2: energy surge through and like destroy the whole grid. So
[1:52:19] Speaker 2: then that gets into the whole idea of whether or
[1:52:21] Speaker 2: not they were trying to balance that grid and how
[1:52:23] Speaker 2: that always becomes destabilized as part of cycles and whether
[1:52:27] Speaker 2: or not we have technology now that they didn't have
[1:52:32] Speaker 2: and that perhaps we could even prevent our own demise.
[1:52:36] Speaker 2: And I don't think that's anytime soon. I'm just saying,
[1:52:40] Speaker 2: I think there's a lot more going on now in
[1:52:42] Speaker 2: what we have available to us. It's like, Look at us,
[1:52:45] Speaker 2: we're spiritually primitive compared to them, but maybe we have
[1:52:50] Speaker 2: certain technologies they didn't have. And so it's a double-edged sword.
[1:52:56] Speaker 1: We've mastered the material more than they did, but they
[1:52:59] Speaker 1: mastered the spiritual more than we did.
[1:53:01] Speaker 2: Maybe they didn't do enough on the material. I'm just
[1:53:04] Speaker 2: saying and speculating is that we may have certain things
[1:53:08] Speaker 2: to our advantage that they didn't have. And I think
[1:53:11] Speaker 2: the spirituality aspect will catch up.
[1:53:13] Speaker 1: Right, which is right now happening.
[1:53:15] Speaker 2: Of course it is.
[1:53:15] Speaker 1: The shifting of the shift, the great shift, the awakening
[1:53:18] Speaker 1: that's happening. Why shows like this are being watched by
[1:53:21] Speaker 1: millions and millions where 20 years ago that wouldn't have happened.
[1:53:23] Speaker 2: We're part of a great story, Alex, that's been unfolding
[1:53:26] Speaker 2: for millennium. And we are at the great transition into
[1:53:31] Speaker 2: another age. And that is an exciting time to be here.
[1:53:34] Speaker 1: Matt, it has been such a pleasure talking to you
[1:53:38] Speaker 1: in studio. Where can people find out more about you,
[1:53:40] Speaker 1: your new books that are coming out? and the great
[1:53:42] Speaker 1: work you're doing in the world.
[1:53:44] Speaker 2: Please check out thestageoftime.com. And I'm actually on my fourth
[1:53:48] Speaker 2: book right now. Just back in January, I released a
[1:53:51] Speaker 2: book with Billy Carson called The Epic of Humanity. And
[1:53:53] Speaker 2: I'm on my fourth book, which will be, for me,
[1:53:56] Speaker 2: my great legacy. I'm really spending an enormous amount of time.
[1:54:00] Speaker 2: And I'm right in the middle of it, like writing.
[1:54:01] Speaker 2: I was just writing on the plane over here. And
[1:54:04] Speaker 2: it's called The Missing Key of History, The Lost Era Civilization,
[1:54:07] Speaker 2: and how I believe that is a missing key around
[1:54:09] Speaker 2: the world that will help us unlock an understanding of
[1:54:12] Speaker 2: our origins, the origins of these symbols and teachings about
[1:54:15] Speaker 2: what we once understood and what once existed long ago
[1:54:18] Speaker 2: in our past. And as I mentioned to you in
[1:54:20] Speaker 2: the beginning of the show, this connection with you, with
[1:54:24] Speaker 2: Martin Young and all the work that I've been doing
[1:54:26] Speaker 2: with creating this incredible documentary and these expeditions, We will
[1:54:30] Speaker 2: be going back to Turkey and including Menorca, Spain, October
[1:54:34] Speaker 2: 1st for the real expedition in the filming with Robert
[1:54:38] Speaker 2: Schock and Paul Wallace and myself and Hans Orheim and others,
[1:54:43] Speaker 2: archaeologists and geologists, to go back and look at these
[1:54:46] Speaker 2: sites and symbols and see if they can completely change
[1:54:50] Speaker 2: the narrative time period of all of history and have
[1:54:53] Speaker 2: us understand these divine symbols in a way that we
[1:54:56] Speaker 2: never have. Something that can potentially bring humanity together. Around
[1:55:00] Speaker 2: a common place of, wow, we're all just divine beings
[1:55:04] Speaker 2: of the universe and these are the teachings on how
[1:55:06] Speaker 2: to get back to source.
[1:55:07] Speaker 1: Well, if I can in any small way help with that, sir,
[1:55:10] Speaker 1: in getting the word out, I am here to be
[1:55:12] Speaker 1: of service, though.
[1:55:13] Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate it. And so check out my
[1:55:16] Speaker 2: YouTube channel also at Matthew LaCroix and my website at
[1:55:19] Speaker 2: the stage of time.com for a lot more, but we
[1:55:21] Speaker 2: have a lot of exciting times coming. We have the
[1:55:24] Speaker 2: first expedition, which will be Turkey and Menorca for the documentary.
[1:55:28] Speaker 2: And then part two will be Peru and Bolivia. So
[1:55:31] Speaker 2: we have a whole set of countries and locations around
[1:55:34] Speaker 2: the world that we're going to be putting together to
[1:55:36] Speaker 2: connect this whole narrative of lost civilizations, ancient symbols and
[1:55:39] Speaker 2: origins back to the very beginning.
[1:55:42] Speaker 1: Well, I am looking forward to seeing all of that,
[1:55:44] Speaker 1: my friend. Thank you again for coming down here. This
[1:55:47] Speaker 1: has been such a great conversation. I cannot wait for
[1:55:49] Speaker 1: our next one, my friend. So I appreciate you for
[1:55:51] Speaker 1: everything you're doing to awaken the planet. So I appreciate you, man.
[1:55:53] Speaker 2: Thank you, Alex. And thanks, everyone. I appreciate it.
[1:55:57] Speaker 1: Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today.
[1:56:00] Speaker 1: If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll
[1:56:04] Speaker 1: find the show notes for this episode at nextlevelsoul.com forward
[1:56:07] Speaker 1: slash or seven three. And if your soul is craving
[1:56:12] Speaker 1: an even deeper journey, step into Next Level Soul TV,
[1:56:15] Speaker 1: our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries, original shows, guided meditations,
[1:56:21] Speaker 1: channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings. It's a space created
[1:56:25] Speaker 1: to support your awakening, your healing, and your return to
[1:56:29] Speaker 1: the truth of who you really are. begin your journey
[1:56:32] Speaker 1: at nextlevelsoul.tv. Until next time, keep expanding, keep seeking, and
[1:56:39] Speaker 1: keep walking your path towards the next level of your soul.

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