# Michelle de Swarte

An episode of [Paul Chowdhry Don't Ask Me That!](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1552899573), 23 Mar 2026, 50 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO3100946683.mp3

Welcome to Paul’s brand new podcast, Paul Chowdhry: Don’t Ask Me That! This episode sees Paul joined by comedian and actor, Michelle de Swarte for a conversation that’s funny, unpredictable and completely unfiltered. From the absurd to the personal, Paul and Michelle cover life, comedy, relationships and everything in between.

## Transcript

[0:00] Coming up, I've never seen you do Indian stuff.
[0:03] Yeah, weird, didn't it? Yeah, I've never seen you do.
[0:06] Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine?
[0:07] Do you think I should work it into my routine?
[0:09] Every time I introduce to people they say who was your beautiful
[0:12] friend? Who do you introduce me to?
[0:14] You ain't got no friends. But what's your opinion of a
[0:17] woman with a voice? Should they have them?
[0:19] I already have my voice and I use it.
[0:21] So I guess the real question is, what do you think about women
[0:25] with voices? Yeah, it wouldn't be a very good
[0:28] episode if you didn't have a voice on this, so you had to say
[0:30] something. We are the Porsches.
[0:33] We are the Ferraris. Somebody said to me like.
[0:35] Oh God, Paul, that's do you know what you just saying that made
[0:38] me think you're the kind of guy who turns around to a girl and
[0:41] says I am the prize. Paul Chowdhry's Don't Ask Me
[0:48] That is brought to you by Mrs. Ellswood.
[0:51] The finest Pickles on the planet.
[0:54] Put some punch in your sandwiches, burgers, even your
[0:57] salads with Misses Elswood. And if you like your Pickles
[1:02] crunchy, they're packed from the farm in 24 hours.
[1:06] To maximize freshness, check out your local Pickles aisle for
[1:11] Misses Elswood. So I'm here with superstar,
[1:16] comedian, entrepreneur, actress, singer, dancer.
[1:22] Entrepreneur. Singer.
[1:25] A woman of many talents, Michelle De Swartz, a very good
[1:30] friend of mine. I've known her for a number of
[1:31] years. And what an honour and a
[1:34] privilege it is to have you on the podcast.
[1:37] Don't ask me that. Obviously, Michelle, I'm not
[1:39] going to ask you things that you don't want to be asked.
[1:41] That's the thing. Yeah, don't know.
[1:43] Is there anything I can't ask you?
[1:45] Yeah. What?
[1:47] I mean, there's a few things like give it a go and I'll tell
[1:49] you. Like is, is there anything about
[1:53] your heritage? No, I can't.
[1:55] Ask you No. You can ask me anything about
[1:57] MyHeritage. I can ask you heritage
[1:58] modelling. Yeah, to a point.
[2:00] Modelling anything off limits. I mean, why don't you ask and I
[2:07] will tell you if you've got something in mind.
[2:10] I'm I'm not sensing some bit of hostility.
[2:15] It's not hostility, it's just frustration because you don't
[2:18] know what it is. You're sort of it's like asking
[2:21] me what is the size of air? Do you know what I mean?
[2:26] Is there anything that you want to discuss about AIR?
[2:29] No, no, other than this dead air that is happening between us.
[2:34] Well, you can hear the pipes in this studio, Yeah.
[2:37] What do you think of the studio? I think it is minimal, but like
[2:42] this is, you know, there's Pickles, there's pictures of
[2:45] you. I imagine this is what your
[2:46] house is like. This is just.
[2:49] Just all your favorite things, including pictures of yourself.
[2:52] Well, around my house I've got plaques of the Apollo and
[2:55] Wembley and. I fucking bet you have.
[2:58] I bet you have. And then in between them, just
[2:59] full length mirrors. Yeah, yeah.
[3:05] And and Michelle, we've known each other for a number of years
[3:08] now. We have.
[3:09] Since you were a young, young Jewish girl from northwest
[3:13] London. Yeah, I guess.
[3:18] I mean, I'm not from there, but all right.
[3:20] I've known you for such a long time and I remember you on the
[3:23] circuit and you came up to me. Chill out, Paul.
[3:27] I've been watching the comedy. I like what you do.
[3:30] How can I do that? Yeah, I did.
[3:32] That's exactly what I said. I saw you and I was just like,
[3:35] Oh my God, Paul, I want to be like you one day.
[3:37] I'm your biggest fan. If you got any tips that you can
[3:40] tell me about the industry. Yeah, and what did I, what did I
[3:43] say to you at the? Time, well, it didn't happen,
[3:45] but Oh yeah, yeah. But you know what?
[3:48] Actually, when I first started you was really nice because I
[3:51] was like very fresh and you and you was like, you're good.
[3:53] You know, I remember I was saying some outlandish shit on
[3:56] stage and he was like, wow, OK. You know, even though what I
[4:00] liked about you was your originality and your perspective
[4:03] and you had a voice and your voice was original on it didn't
[4:08] matter. You didn't get any laughs.
[4:10] I wasn't. I wasn't concerned with the but.
[4:16] But you know what? That's what you need.
[4:18] A more experienced comic. Like I can see that now when I
[4:22] see someone new coming up. They might not be getting the
[4:25] laughs, but I'm like, yeah, but it's there.
[4:28] You know, there'll be someone else who's been doing it the
[4:29] same amount of time as them, and they'll be getting big laughs.
[4:31] And you're like, I don't know how sustainable this is exactly.
[4:34] So I know what you mean when you see someone and you're like, oh,
[4:37] that person is authentically them.
[4:39] Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like you that you have
[4:42] your a persona, which is. And I like the fact that
[4:47] whenever I see you, you're experimenting with something and
[4:50] you're like, that was like, you're one of the most honest
[4:53] people I've met in my life because you're very upfront and
[4:57] you're very direct about your approach to the arts as I put a
[5:02] stand up and the arts that you have worked in in previous
[5:05] lives. But when you've gone on stage
[5:07] and things haven't worked and I've seen you kill, right?
[5:10] Yeah, you've also seen me die. Die.
[5:12] And when I've seen in your perception, die, I don't think
[5:15] it's a death. But you've come on and said that
[5:17] was just. That was terrible.
[5:18] And that reminds me of myself. Yeah.
[5:20] Because you go up and you're so honest with yourself.
[5:23] I used to get with Jimmy Carr all the time.
[5:24] Right. So.
[5:25] And he'd die. Oh, that was great.
[5:28] Do you know what I love about you?
[5:29] Yeah, Paul, I'll get off stage and I'll be like, man, you'll be
[5:31] like, yeah, no, that wasn't that good to my face.
[5:36] You'll just be like, yeah, weren't your best.
[5:38] I don't know if I I would never and I love your stand up because
[5:42] it's so you know, and I love being on shows with you because
[5:46] what you do, if you're on before me, you create a room that
[5:51] almost you, you you raise the bar intellectually and then you
[5:55] can go into areas as somebody after you that will open up the
[5:59] crowd into ideas and and you can formulate routines in a in a way
[6:04] that you couldn't before. When you when you've got people
[6:07] going to have been doing Dick jokes and arse and pussy hole.
[6:10] You know I like asshole. Routines.
[6:12] And then you're going up there and you're talking about what
[6:15] you've lived through, which is unusual, and then you've got the
[6:18] look to be on stage. You know, I've got to make do
[6:22] with what I've been given. Well, you've fucking done the
[6:25] most out of it and yeah, do you know what I mean?
[6:27] You know I've got a where a Christian do I wore this for
[6:31] you. I do.
[6:32] This. Yeah, but you know, you, you're
[6:33] always you're always popping style.
[6:35] Paul, I see you. Do you know what I mean?
[6:37] You'd be coming in after your sale you just come back from a
[6:40] sale you'll be like, ah yeah yeah you see this you feel it
[6:45] you know what I mean I'm like, oh okay you like fashion and I
[6:48] like that you keep on doing these like different looks and
[6:51] that now what we doing are we are we doing a city boy
[6:54] transitions to a full time accountant.
[6:56] He's left. He's left the city, and he's
[6:58] gonna. Accountant.
[7:00] Yeah, yeah. No, it's just, it's just giving
[7:02] like it's not complete city boy. Look, I'm giving sort of like
[7:05] refined. Yeah, VAT.
[7:07] Yeah, accountant. Yeah, No, no, no, no.
[7:10] But like, yeah, like, like, like low key like does something that
[7:15] seems a little bit boring but is good at it and makes money at
[7:18] it. Tax fraud.
[7:19] Well, I wish. VAT.
[7:21] Yeah, why do you even say VAT not VAT?
[7:24] I don't know. VAT.
[7:26] I don't know man, that's your people.
[7:27] 'S wag man. Yeah, that's your people's and
[7:30] I'm not talking about that. Yeah.
[7:33] I've never seen you do Indian stuff.
[7:34] Yeah, weird in it. Yeah, I've never seen you do
[7:36] anything. Yeah, yeah.
[7:37] Can you imagine? Do you think I should work it
[7:39] into my routine? I've met your mum, Yeah, and
[7:41] she's not Indian. No, she ain't.
[7:43] So I've never met your dad though.
[7:44] No, me neither. No joking.
[7:49] If you're watching Dad, please reach out.
[7:52] Yeah, yeah, 07956. And he lives around the corner
[7:54] from me, so yeah. Your upbringing and and leaving
[7:58] school at At 14 you left school. Yeah, I left in year 9.
[8:01] See, if you're Indian, that wouldn't have been even an
[8:04] option. No, no.
[8:06] I mean, I left in year 9. I went back in year 11 for about
[8:09] a month or two and I was like, yeah.
[8:11] What happened? Why did you leave?
[8:13] I don't know, I just, I really struggled with school and also
[8:17] just life was a kind of tumultuous and I just struggled
[8:23] with being like dyslexic and you know, I just, I kind of pissed
[8:27] me off that I was like really excelled in certain subjects and
[8:32] really didn't in others. Like was obviously like behind
[8:37] the rest of the year. And and then also we didn't have
[8:41] like loads of money. And I just, I was at an age
[8:43] where I really wanted to like feel confident and rather than
[8:47] the long haul of getting an education for like the greater
[8:51] good of your career years down the line, I wanted enough,
[8:54] enough puffer jacket today. Yeah, I remember.
[8:56] Naf Naf. You know what I'm saying?
[8:58] That was expensive, right Lacoste?
[9:00] Yeah. Farrah, exactly.
[9:03] I mean, these were those were wives back.
[9:06] Then they wasn't it. And this is a this is just a
[9:10] thing about, I think, you know, a very like working class
[9:14] mentality is that like the big sort of, you know, that kind of
[9:19] intergenerational wealth that should be important and that are
[9:22] like markers of good education. I think there's certain things
[9:25] where you just think, yeah, but I want to feel good today and
[9:28] it's like being hungry and eating a McDonald's.
[9:31] Do you know what I mean? It's probably not nutritious and
[9:33] actually good for you long term, but really quenches the.
[9:36] We didn't know that back then. Yeah.
[9:38] No, no, no, we didn't know. Farrah, Farrah Cross.
[9:40] Remember that one? No, I don't remember that
[9:42] actually. I mean, I'm because I'm, I'm,
[9:43] I'm from the 70s, you know, I'm, I'm old school.
[9:46] You're a bit, you're 80s, baby, right?
[9:47] Yeah. So we, it was a different and we
[9:50] thought it was a healthy meal. McDonald's.
[9:52] Yeah, it did seem like that isn't.
[9:54] It Yeah, it was called a restaurant.
[9:56] But it flipping was. And also there were sesame's on
[9:58] that bun. Yeah.
[10:00] Do you know what I mean? Sesame and sesame's are
[10:02] expensive. Yeah, now, yeah, Sesame's, you
[10:05] know. Do you know, I remember going
[10:07] like, like one of my first model checks, I took my, my mum, my
[10:11] brother to Pizza Hut and in Streatham and like, I remember
[10:15] us all kind of like marvelling at the salad bar.
[10:17] Like that seemed really fancy. It was just like salad,
[10:21] unlimited amount. Look at the corn.
[10:22] You could just scoop it up. And then Chuck some 1000 island
[10:26] dressing on it with the main and and and we thought that was
[10:28] healthy. Oh yeah, yeah.
[10:29] Croutons fancy. Croutons Fancy.
[10:32] You don't like croutons? Yeah, you listen.
[10:34] You ate. When was the last time you went
[10:36] Pizza Hut? Oh no.
[10:37] I mean the original Hut. You.
[10:40] I love Pizza Hut. Do you haven't eaten a Pizza Hut
[10:43] in years? Do not fucking lie.
[10:45] I went this Hut just before the show.
[10:47] Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut is one of the I'm
[10:48] going to try to get one of the sponsor.
[10:50] You are such a plain faced liar. If you're watching Pizza Hut,
[10:55] don't ask me that. Yeah, but but let's not negate
[10:58] the the question. When was?
[11:00] The last time that you had a Pizza Hut?
[11:03] 1993, Yeah, it's one of the best pizzas.
[11:06] Because your body's a temple. Look at you trying to be all
[11:08] relatable. I'm every man.
[11:09] No, you're not. But I'm in my 50s, you know, I'm
[11:12] I'm an old man, you say, yeah, you're a baby.
[11:14] You're a baby to me. But I see you as a younger
[11:17] sister because you came through the main streets of London.
[11:20] Yeah, I did. And this was in Streatham.
[11:23] Streatham, I mean, I was born in Lewisham Hospital.
[11:28] I was there until I was about 5-6, then I moved to Bermondsey,
[11:31] then Streatham and then in my sort of basically 12/11/12
[11:37] upwards, Brixton. Bombo clad.
[11:40] Yeah, ratted. Now I don't know if I can say
[11:42] this publicly. What?
[11:44] But you're you're, you're Jamaican.
[11:47] Yeah. Am I allowed to say this?
[11:49] I don't know what are you going? To say.
[11:52] Yeah, you can say you just said it.
[11:53] What? What would be wrong with saying
[11:55] that? Are you allowed to publicly say?
[11:59] That I'm Jamaican and Jewish and.
[12:00] Jewish at the same time. I think, yeah, I think you can
[12:03] publicly say it. What do you ask Clark?
[12:06] Oyve, yeah. Salt beef jerk chicken bagels.
[12:14] Like how did this happen? My mum met my dad, they had sex,
[12:19] she got pregnant. Here I am.
[12:21] Now I've met your mum, you've never admitted to that.
[12:24] No, she she hasn't. But I am here.
[12:26] Yeah, so, and this is a. She says hello, by the way.
[12:30] Shalom. Yeah.
[12:33] But what? Yeah, a very lovely lady.
[12:35] Your mum. I've never met your dad.
[12:37] But how? This was a time in the 80s when
[12:40] mixed relationships with potentially a Jamaican and a
[12:46] Jewish woman were very frowned upon.
[12:48] I have family members that have met.
[12:51] My mum and Jamaicans, I mean, do you know what though?
[12:56] The thing is, I think growing up in London, it's not like I was
[13:00] the only mixed race person, like, you know, that my
[13:04] neighbors were. And do you know what?
[13:06] I was chatting, I was chatting to my cousin about this and
[13:10] saying like it was kind of a lawless time that eight years,
[13:13] man, because I remember like, especially where I lived in
[13:16] Lewisham, the the National Front that would like them older kids
[13:20] would like throw stones at me and my cousin and stuff.
[13:23] But then at the same time, I remember us like we would go
[13:26] down to like the local corner shop and we like some of the
[13:29] shit we would do just for entertainment.
[13:31] And then we would go in there the next day and be like, yeah,
[13:32] can we have sweets? Like it was just a lawless time.
[13:35] Like people were calling us all kinds of terrible stuff.
[13:38] We're getting things chucked at us.
[13:40] But then I think of everyone else that lived around there, we
[13:43] would just call people like what they are would be like, oh,
[13:45] that's Irish Margaret. That's so do you know what I
[13:48] mean? That's that, that's rusted,
[13:51] Steve. That's like, we weren't very
[13:54] imaginative with it. Every time I introduce to people
[13:58] they say who was your beautiful friend?
[14:01] Who do you introduce me to? You ain't got no friends.
[14:04] I ain't ever like. Yeah, that hurt, isn't it?
[14:07] It's true, though. When do I ever see any of your
[14:10] friends? Sometimes I'll see you at gigs
[14:12] and you'll be like with some beautiful woman and I'll be
[14:15] like, hey, Paul, you'll be like, yeah, yeah, now, now we're just
[14:17] coming through and you, you always make a point of getting
[14:20] that person away from me. And it like the most I'll get
[14:24] is. Hey, because what you say,
[14:26] anytime I'm with a girl, you're like, are you guys?
[14:33] Are you guys? I do no 'cause I just like to
[14:36] see you get uncomfortable. And then I'm looking at you and
[14:38] then I'm trying to be, you know. Yeah, you're you're you're
[14:40] basically looking at me with your eyeballs and your eyeballs
[14:42] are saying shut the fuck up. And then I smile and I'm like,
[14:45] So what are you like, are you, are you like banging?
[14:48] Then are you like, is it, is it, is it being consummated?
[14:51] Like what are we doing? What are we doing?
[14:53] And you'll be like, yeah, no, sister sewing.
[14:55] You're trying. Yeah, change the subject.
[14:56] But I'm already in there. I'm like, So what is that?
[14:59] So you guys going away together, but you've always got some
[15:02] beautiful, like some beautiful woman with you who's well
[15:07] educated. And I'm like, why are you with
[15:09] Paul? Yeah, you, you, you generally
[15:11] say that to the and then they, then they work it out.
[15:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leave me after the.
[15:16] That's why I try and get them away from.
[15:17] You. Yeah.
[15:17] You never let you. You are always very quick with
[15:21] it. You're very.
[15:22] You're very. You're very swift.
[15:24] Yeah. With the introductions.
[15:25] Yeah. And I'm always like, where were
[15:26] we waiting? You're like, no, no, no.
[15:27] We're just going here. Good luck.
[15:29] Yeah. See you later.
[15:30] That's what I like about you. Very honest.
[15:32] Yeah, too honest. Yeah, that, I mean it's an issue
[15:34] and. It's caused me a little break
[15:36] UPS. Me too.
[15:38] Hashtag me too and and we've known each other since you
[15:43] started because we shared the same management at the time,
[15:47] which obviously we can't go into too much detail.
[15:50] So I knew you from the beginning.
[15:52] Yeah, you did. And you've been through
[15:54] different. I mean, this is a very lawless
[15:57] business that we work in. There's no union or anything.
[16:01] No, there isn't a union. But you know, you also have to
[16:04] be realistic with your expectations about agents.
[16:08] Do you know what I mean? So you you also have some duty
[16:12] as well. Yeah.
[16:13] One to make sound choices or to understand when it's not working
[16:17] for you, and also to assert yourself and speak up.
[16:21] Yeah, and and that's what I like about you.
[16:24] But there's been times when I've thought this has gone too far.
[16:27] The management has taken and I've sent you the message and
[16:29] I'm like, this is out of order and I've got your back.
[16:32] I had your back at parties. Yeah, you have, You have, man.
[16:36] You have, you have. And also every, every stage of
[16:40] the way. You've always been, like, lovely
[16:42] to me. And that is why, like, as we
[16:44] were just discussing earlier, when someone's like chatting
[16:48] some shit about you, unless it's about your flawed personality.
[16:52] Do you know what I mean? Which I'm like, yeah, Paul is a
[16:54] bit like that, but I like him. I'm sure I've got some level of
[16:58] autism. Levels.
[17:00] Yeah, May, Yeah, course. They asked me, girls, are you on
[17:04] the spectrum? Yeah.
[17:07] I'm a I'm a stand up like. Obviously.
[17:10] Why are we doing what we do? Yeah, and, and The thing is, is
[17:13] that we've used those sort of quirks, let's say of our
[17:17] personality to our advantage and we've mined them.
[17:20] And so I think that if you've been able to make the most of
[17:24] some of might what you know, what might be perceived as
[17:28] hurdles about yourself, but you're not working in an
[17:32] everyday life, you're not doing an everyday job.
[17:35] And so we're able to capitalise on those things about ourselves.
[17:39] Like I'm just very, I find it really hard to lie and I find it
[17:44] really hard to pretend. If I'm not into someone, I don't
[17:49] like being around them. Now what's happened to me over
[17:52] my life is I'll say stuff because that's exactly what I
[17:55] think. And everyone will laugh and
[17:56] they'll go, you're hilarious. And I'm like, Oh yeah, ha ha,
[18:00] I'm not joking. I'm being deadly serious a lot
[18:03] of the time. Yeah, I've had this problem.
[18:07] You see you laugh as well at the end, whereas I'll just keep that
[18:10] straight face and they'll. No, not always.
[18:13] It's more like, you know, so you, you just kind of learn to,
[18:16] you learn to assimilate and act like a normal human being in it.
[18:19] Yeah, and I've, I think I've met your, I've met also your sister.
[18:23] You've met everyone, you've met both my sisters, you've met my
[18:26] brother, I think you've met my mum.
[18:28] And we, we, we spent New Year's together.
[18:31] Oh, yeah. Bridge.
[18:32] Yeah. Do you remember?
[18:33] That was actually good fun, wouldn't it?
[18:35] Yeah. First time I saw Mark happily
[18:38] take booze from his bar. Ohh yeah, the owner of Top
[18:41] Secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:42] The tightest man alive. Yeah.
[18:44] Who we love. That was years ago it.
[18:46] Was about. Five years, five years ago and
[18:49] then and that was and we went to the Comedy Store party or it was
[18:52] some day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:53] We was at the Comedy Store party.
[18:55] I just moved back here. You just came back to.
[18:57] England. Yeah, I just moved back to
[18:58] England. Yeah.
[18:59] Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
[19:01] That's what I mean. Listen, you've you've always,
[19:03] you've always been consistent. Somebody was very disrespectful
[19:06] to you. Yeah, really fucking
[19:07] disrespectful. And then we, we you confronted
[19:11] the woman and I, I stood behind you.
[19:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, at first.
[19:15] OK, so just for like context, I'd this person had asked me to
[19:19] help them write their show and actually I ended up writing the
[19:22] whole bloody show and. And it wasn't an issue.
[19:25] I would have done it as a friend anyway.
[19:27] And but then she tried to act like she'd written the show
[19:30] herself and I was a bit like, but you didn't write it.
[19:34] And she was like, no, I didn't. And I was like, and actually
[19:37] it's not. I didn't want to.
[19:38] You can't really get a credit for writing a show for someone
[19:40] or a credit on where. But it was just the way she
[19:43] tried to hoodwink me, not even like, it was just so scandalous.
[19:49] And and then she went on to be nominated for shows at Edinburgh
[19:52] and all of this stuff. And it kind of sent me mad.
[19:54] And I didn't see her for years. And and then she got her agents
[19:57] to like threaten me of legal action because they were like,
[20:00] you're saying you wrote it? I said, but I did anyway.
[20:03] Then we see her all these years later at, at that, at that
[20:08] Comedy store. Yeah.
[20:09] No, no, it was a Comedy Store like 40th birthday party or
[20:13] some, some shit like that. And we saw her and I said, oh,
[20:16] Paul, there she is. And he was like, yeah, look at
[20:17] her. She's a waste man.
[20:20] He was like a hype man at secondary school.
[20:23] Like, yeah, you should fight her.
[20:24] Yeah, she's disrespecting your Honour.
[20:27] And then I saw her and she was all like, hi.
[20:28] I was like, Nah. And he was like, yeah.
[20:30] And he just like stuck around by me and her had it out.
[20:33] But she she was all like, babe, Nah, I didn't mean it.
[20:35] And I said, listen, me and you both know you couldn't write
[20:37] your own name and a cheque. Now fuck off.
[20:39] The Cafe de Paris. Yeah, that was it, Cafe de Paris
[20:43] jokes. Me and you were walking about
[20:45] like two hit women. Well, also, yeah, we was walking
[20:48] around. Do you know what's funny about
[20:49] that is everyone was trying to talk to you and I ended up sort
[20:51] of being your, your autism interpretator because they would
[20:55] be like, hey, Paul. Yeah, great stuff.
[20:57] I'd love you to come on the pod and you'd be like looking into
[21:00] the distance and then sort of look at me and be like, is he?
[21:03] And I'd be like, Paul's, Paul, you were just going to go over
[21:07] there. I didn't.
[21:08] Even think we were going to, I think we went and did a gig
[21:10] somewhere and thought, oh, I might as well just go and hang
[21:11] out. Yeah yeah, yeah.
[21:12] And see a wagwa and. That was a good night.
[21:14] How you finding it like now you've gone on to you, your
[21:18] sitcom, incredible sitcom. I messaged you at the time I
[21:21] thought I wonder now you've got to a point have has she now got
[21:25] to a point as Michelle go where I don't get a reply and you
[21:28] replied straight. Away you always get a reply I.
[21:30] Was like, you know, we've seen people change, yeah, as the
[21:34] industry, but you come from an industry.
[21:36] Yeah, I come. Yeah, I worked in a way more
[21:39] bullshit industry than stand up and also getting credit for way
[21:43] less than I do now, you know what I mean?
[21:46] So yeah, and that none. I just have a pretty, I had a
[21:52] pretty clear experience early on in my early 20s that I was like,
[21:59] yeah, you kind of really got to hold on to your personality,
[22:03] man, because you know, like I, I like people who are safe with me
[22:08] And I've noticed like I've got some comedian friends that will
[22:12] not chat to someone that they don't think's a good comedian or
[22:15] they don't think's a successful comedian.
[22:17] And I'm like that the industry ain't like that, you know, like
[22:20] don't, don't be like that. Some, I've got some comedians
[22:23] friends that are my good friends that haven't had the same
[22:26] success that I've had, but they've one, they're good
[22:29] comics, But more importantly, they've been really supportive
[22:31] of me as I've been of them. And like that's more important
[22:36] than aligning yourself with someone who you want to mirror.
[22:40] You know what I mean? Success wise or career wise,
[22:44] like it's going to serve you better in the long run to be
[22:48] around people that you know have got your best intentions.
[22:52] Yeah, there's a lot of backstabbers in this industry.
[22:54] Yeah, people are full of shit. Do you know what I mean?
[22:56] Because they want to be famous. But it's like, yeah, you can go
[22:58] on. You can go on social media and
[22:59] have a little viral moment. Good luck with that.
[23:01] Yeah, because especially if you're doing things that are
[23:04] just to get quick hits or whatever, it's like, you know,
[23:06] we're all older now. I'm in my 40s, you're in your
[23:09] 50s. So that kind of like being
[23:12] relevant current to the young people starts to people like
[23:16] you. So people better know who you
[23:19] are. And if you are, you know, too
[23:22] quick to change and you know what I mean?
[23:24] Like there's no real foundation of you, your brand, which is
[23:27] your personality then that what we're buying into.
[23:31] Well, you come from an industry where it's ruthless in the
[23:34] modelling world that you came from.
[23:36] Yeah, very. It does.
[23:37] It doesn't get more cut throat and more toxic than that.
[23:41] And you think this is a bad industry?
[23:43] That's some next level. Yeah, it is.
[23:44] It is, But then also it is not based on.
[23:47] You can't really be strategic in an industry like that because it
[23:51] is just based on your aesthetics.
[23:53] They don't care what your personality is like.
[23:55] You could be absolutely trash or still book all the same jobs,
[23:59] you know what I mean? As long as you turn up, you'll
[24:01] be fine. But I think it's a it was a good
[24:05] lesson before getting into showbiz, as it were, because you
[24:10] know, like something like looks don't last forever.
[24:13] And so you know you can. Well, you know you know you can.
[24:20] You can get a very full sense of who you are and self.
[24:23] But how did that your personality in that world serve
[24:27] you? Because I would have said you
[24:28] would have been the more outspoken individual environment
[24:31] and a lot of these girls wouldn't have had a voice.
[24:33] But you're someone that even now, right?
[24:38] But back then you wouldn't have taken shit from anyone.
[24:40] No, I don't think it served me well for the industry.
[24:44] It didn't serve me well as a model, but it served me well
[24:47] that I've come out of that industry being around a bunch of
[24:51] questionable people and I've come out of it relatively
[24:56] unscathed. Do you know what I mean?
[24:58] So I probably didn't have this, although I was successful,
[25:01] probably didn't have some of the success that I could have had,
[25:04] but. You get counselled from jobs and
[25:06] stuff because. Yeah, I've been counselled from
[25:07] a few jobs. Yeah, been sent home from a few
[25:10] jobs. You see, this is the thing.
[25:12] Because women with a voice and strength are still seen as
[25:15] something that shouldn't be. Yeah, yeah.
[25:18] And also the gatekeepers of that industry are, are men.
[25:22] And so if you're like a young woman that that person feels
[25:28] attracted to and they've got a sort of key that, you know, they
[25:33] can grant you or not, and you're not malleable towards them, they
[25:36] think that's you being disrespectful, but actually,
[25:39] like, fuck off, you nonce. You know what I mean?
[25:44] Without going into too much detail, this is this is what's
[25:46] out there, and it's and it's known around the world.
[25:49] Yeah, but what's your opinion of a woman with a voice?
[25:52] Should they have them? What's my opinion?
[25:55] Should women have a voice? Should women have a voice or
[25:58] should they just? I don't know, Paul, what do you
[25:59] think? Do you like a woman with a
[26:02] voice? That's the bigger question
[26:04] because obviously I'm a woman. And so yeah, women should not
[26:08] only be able to use their voice, but not be vilified when they do
[26:12] it. That being said, I already have
[26:16] my voice and I use it. So I guess the real question is,
[26:19] what do you think about women with voices?
[26:22] No, because you have a voice, right?
[26:24] It wouldn't be a very good episode if you didn't have a
[26:27] voice on this, so you had to say something.
[26:30] But generally, do you think it's OK?
[26:33] Like generally in the world, should women just.
[26:37] Shut the fuck up. Yeah, definitely.
[26:39] I think they should shut the fuck up and I think they should
[26:41] make dinner, and I think they should push up babies and I
[26:44] think they should understand that that's their destiny.
[26:47] And as soon as they start wanting more than that, I think
[26:49] they should understand that something is wrong in them with
[26:53] human nature. Do you know what I mean?
[26:55] And if there's any questions that need asking, ask them.
[26:58] But make sure you ask a man, because they have the real
[27:01] answers right. You took the words right out of
[27:04] them. Exactly, so you can shut the
[27:06] fuck up and let me talk. So ironically, this is the
[27:10] situation that you had with somebody working and
[27:14] professionally in the industry. And I was at that point, I was
[27:17] so happy that you went on to huge things because of what you
[27:21] told me. Someone said to you and I sent
[27:23] you a message when I saw what you did in in, you did a big job
[27:27] on TV. And I was like, that guy can
[27:30] shut the F up because what you did was shut a man down.
[27:36] Not not verbally, not aggressively as I I would
[27:40] perceive what he did to you and and and destroyed him
[27:45] artistically and successfully, which is the greatest form of
[27:48] revenge. Yeah, but that wasn't my
[27:49] intention, to be honest. And I, and I will say this, you
[27:52] see, in terms of like, I would say to like, you know, other
[27:56] women and maybe younger women when you're kind of trying to
[28:01] work out how to navigate those kind of choppy waters is keep it
[28:06] moving. Do you know what I mean?
[28:08] Like, no, you're not. It's very rarely are you going
[28:10] to get any kind of emotional justice when people have taken
[28:13] the fucking piss with you. But what you do kind of need to
[28:17] do is keep your focus and make sure that you're heading towards
[28:21] whatever your North Star is. Do you know what I mean?
[28:24] And, and, and I say, I think men have got a, you know, we're not
[28:28] in an equal world right now, but the same likewise, when we were
[28:32] talking about that comic that I had that issue with that we
[28:36] bumped into that was a woman. But I kind of understood at the
[28:39] time that I was like, I can't really do anything right now
[28:43] because she's in a, she's got more power than me in the
[28:47] industry and she's got more of a voice than me in the industry.
[28:50] That's what I had to do, is just kind of stay focused and
[28:53] contained and like try not to have too much overspill and
[28:57] yeah. Well, this is the thing.
[28:59] This is an industry where it's almost a one in one out policy
[29:03] and you've conquered only sexism, racism, obviously
[29:08] homophobia because of your persuasion.
[29:11] And. These are these are things we
[29:14] all have in common. Look, do you know what The thing
[29:17] is? You don't conquer it.
[29:18] What you do is you just become more well versed in being able
[29:22] to deal with it, right? And practice makes perfect.
[29:24] There is no final moment when you go, yeah, I conquered that.
[29:28] It's just you just become more confident with using your voice
[29:32] and being able to navigate certain situations and finesse
[29:36] them or even manipulate, manipulate them in a way that
[29:39] you can get your preferred outcome.
[29:42] Do you know what I'm saying? But there is no it's like
[29:44] success in it, like a bit in your coral mind you is like when
[29:46] I do the O2, I can't wait to do the O2 and then you do the O2
[29:49] and you're like, now what it's like when I saw you at that gig
[29:53] and he was like, you know what, Michelle this and that's going
[29:55] on. And I was like, you know what,
[29:56] Paul? The thing is, you couldn't be
[29:58] more successful as a touring comic.
[30:01] But I also don't think if you had some of the recognition that
[30:06] I think sometimes you wonder that you haven't got in terms of
[30:08] like for for the work that you've done.
[30:11] I'm like, you would not suit being famous like that.
[30:15] You would hate it. You're a Moody bastard.
[30:18] Can you imagine if people just coming up to you 24/7 being like
[30:22] hey man, can you? Would you hate it?
[30:26] You wouldn't be happy. It would make your life less
[30:29] enjoyable. I still like to live the life I
[30:32] LED before the entertainment business where I could just go
[30:36] about my business. And something you can't do, the
[30:40] more and more famous you get, is go about your business and just
[30:43] go to the shops and be yourself. It's, it's, you know, I do get
[30:48] recognised now and again. Yeah, especially because you
[30:50] drive around in a ridiculously expensive sports car.
[30:53] Oh, the Porsche. Nothing.
[30:54] Yeah, the Porsche. Nothing about that says let me
[30:56] blend into the background. I got rid of that, did you?
[30:59] I got rid of the Porsche, then got a Tesla but now I now.
[31:05] You're like, I really missed my life before I was recognised and
[31:08] people noticed me as he's like beep beep shrink.
[31:10] No, I I didn't get the Porsche for for the fame.
[31:13] I got the Porsche for the Geldem.
[31:15] Yeah, for the geldem. Geldem.
[31:16] Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, Geld me.
[31:19] I deal with sin. Yeah, I see you.
[31:20] I see you. So, but, you know, we are the
[31:23] Porsches, we are the Ferraris. Somebody said to me like, oh.
[31:27] God, Paul, that's do you know what you just saying that made
[31:29] me think you're the kind of guy who turns around to a girl and
[31:32] says I am the prize. I am you fucking.
[31:35] You've said it, haven't you? We are the Porsches.
[31:37] We are the Ferraris. I could just see you be like, I
[31:40] could just see a girl trying to be a bit like, you know, Paul,
[31:43] there's not much compromise here.
[31:44] We're always doing what you want to do.
[31:46] And I could just see you being like as you fucking flex your
[31:49] pecs in front of your mirror looking at yourself, getting a
[31:51] hard on like I am the prize. I appreciate that.
[31:55] I'll take that as a compliment. Have you said?
[31:56] That no, I've never. Why are you lying?
[31:59] No, no, look. Look into my eyes.
[32:02] You know how bad I am with women?
[32:04] For me to even big myself up in front of a woman, I'm like, you
[32:08] know, you obviously don't have many options.
[32:10] If you're with me. That's what I if you're with me,
[32:15] your options are limited. I think, I think if someone's
[32:17] with you like something bad's happened to them in the past in
[32:20] it. Do you know what I mean?
[32:21] That's that's like a childhood marker.
[32:22] You know what? I'm saying, why are you with me?
[32:28] Like there was there was only one parent on the scene.
[32:35] Please, Sir, I want some more. They're orphans most of the
[32:38] time, you know, it's, I don't even know what my I I had a
[32:44] question in my head. But now you've now
[32:46] discombobulated me so much. Yeah, with facts.
[32:49] Yeah, that that you've, you've psychoanalysed me.
[32:52] I forgot the next. Not really psychoanalysed you,
[32:54] it's just to read. You're not that mysterious.
[32:57] I hope you're enjoying the podcast so far.
[32:59] Just a reminder, this show is brought to you by Mrs. Elswood
[33:03] Pickles. Now bringing punch to your
[33:06] podcast, Mrs. Elswood Pickles are packed to maximize freshness
[33:12] and crunch. Back to the show, would you
[33:15] identify as more Jamaican or Jewish?
[33:18] I mean, I'm a blend of the two, but I would probably say for me
[33:24] and my identity, I would say I'm a mixed race black woman before
[33:29] I would address Jewishness because it's what's relevant in
[33:33] my life. I don't look Jewish but I'm sure
[33:36] as hell not white, you know what I mean?
[33:39] So it's more of a like a cultural marker rather than an
[33:42] everyday experience. You'll always be white to me,
[33:45] don't worry. Yeah, I bet are.
[33:46] You actually the only other half Jewish, half Jamaican woman I
[33:50] spoke to him was Richard Pryor's daughter.
[33:53] Oh, rain, rain. Yeah.
[33:54] The thing is, I'm not what, same as her then?
[33:56] Because, you know, due days and money is only goes for your
[33:59] mum's side. So you're not 1/2, you're lucky.
[34:01] You're lucky. Am I all the perks?
[34:04] All the perks? What are they?
[34:10] So what? I can't say too much because the
[34:15] producer and the owner of the building and.
[34:19] The owner of everything of. Everything is yeah is Jewish, so
[34:23] I'm not going to say too much. My management, my producer,
[34:26] they're all Jewish accountant. That's unusual.
[34:28] Yeah, most of the people, really.
[34:29] Yeah. Hold on, we've got the same
[34:32] accountant mate. It's not fucking Jewish, you're
[34:35] lying piece of shit. I'm going to get you a better
[34:37] accountant. Will ya?
[34:38] Thanks. I'm going to get you.
[34:39] I'm going to we're going to talk about that of but you know,
[34:44] we're going back to love lives. Obviously you've dissected.
[34:47] Back to love lives. You've dissected mine right, but
[34:53] you you've lived through. You know, I've never managed to
[34:56] to get to the point of and this is a controversial thing for me
[34:59] to say. Being at my age is is finding a
[35:01] partner of life partner for marriage.
[35:05] You've done that right? You've completed.
[35:06] It I mean, I, I completed it as in terms of like it failed and
[35:10] I'm divorced. I tried it.
[35:11] I know. Thank you.
[35:13] That you've made it, I know, but that was different.
[35:17] That's different. It's harder coming out of a
[35:18] relationship, never mind a marriage.
[35:21] Yeah, but I'm quite like, emotionally repressed in many
[35:25] ways, so it didn't faze me as much as the admin of it did.
[35:29] Yes, the admin. It's a fucking admin, man.
[35:31] It's just a relationship. With enough paperwork, it's not
[35:35] like saying you love someone and then being able to back pedal,
[35:38] do you know what I mean? It's like you've, you've, you've
[35:40] got enough admin like ink cartridges for days.
[35:44] Is it even now sometimes I like, I've still got all my paperwork
[35:48] from it and I, I, I've moved a bunch of times and I'm like,
[35:51] shall I throw it away? And I'm like, no, because I
[35:53] might need it. I don't want to have to do this
[35:55] again. And you still talk to her.
[35:58] Him. No.
[36:05] Why do white people kill their parents so much?
[36:09] I can't answer that, but like I, I would imagine that they've
[36:13] probably felt like they've had to stay like loving towards
[36:19] them. I think there's like an
[36:20] emotional hold where that person probably isn't able to express
[36:23] themselves to their parents and it boils up to the point where
[36:26] they like shoot them or stab them.
[36:28] Or something. It's generally like white.
[36:30] Like I was trying to routine on this about how white kids kill
[36:33] their parents and black, I don't know if black people don't kill
[36:36] their parents. I mean, not I, I don't think
[36:39] there's too many cases of that. Well, oh, black, one of my black
[36:42] friends said, you know you, you would never kill your parents or
[36:47] your dad. And he said I've never met my
[36:48] dad so. Well, it's probably for safety
[36:53] reasons at this point if the conversation came up.
[36:58] So we've gone through the the relationship, we've gone through
[37:01] the turmoils of the industry, but you've been very vocal about
[37:06] your biohacking culture. My biohacking.
[37:09] Oh yeah. Biohacking.
[37:12] Biohacking, right? Yeah, I didn't think of it like.
[37:15] That yeah, because look at how good you look for your The skin
[37:18] is Immaculate. Whoever's doing your micro
[37:20] needling. Yeah, I haven't had micro
[37:23] needling for a while, but I do. I've been using this medical
[37:25] grade tret. Tret noan.
[37:28] Oh, yeah, I've got that. Oh, it's good, innit.
[37:29] But you've got to get your skin used to it.
[37:31] You know what I mean? Be dry.
[37:32] Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[37:33] Every two days. Every two days, man.
[37:35] Now, now I'm down to like a a nice cool four times a week, is
[37:38] it? Yeah, Yeah, I use that.
[37:40] And I use this thing called Estroel, Right.
[37:43] And it's actually it's for perimenopausal women.
[37:46] And you're meant to put it on your Fanny, is it?
[37:48] Yeah. So it don't fucking turn to dust
[37:50] and blow away. But I put it on my face.
[37:52] So it's like, if it keeps your fucking lips down there plump,
[37:54] imagine what it could do for your skin.
[37:56] Is it? Yeah, I'm going to have to get
[37:57] this. Yeah, yeah.
[37:58] Try my Fanny. Yeah.
[37:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[38:00] So what's this called? It's.
[38:02] I don't think you should be using it.
[38:04] I don't know, I might be wrong. But tretinol is like a retinol.
[38:07] Right, it's a medical grade retinol.
[38:10] So you put it on, but you can't go into the sun with this
[38:12] because. You should only do it at night.
[38:13] You're not doing it in the day, you know, because you could get
[38:16] sort of sunburn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[38:18] But I use it every other day. At night I.
[38:21] Have at night and then I put moisturizer over there.
[38:23] Eye cream, you know. You use all the stuff but.
[38:27] As you can see, yeah, you know, I'm a 51 year old man.
[38:31] You mean you look fucking good? And but you are. 45-O is it?
[38:36] You had said the public will believe that.
[38:39] No, it's fine. I'm 45.
[38:40] No, because on the Tinder account it says 35.
[38:43] Fuck off, I'm not on Tinder. I was on Bumble.
[38:47] You was on Bumble. A few years ago I got banned,
[38:49] didn't it? Oh yeah, because they didn't
[38:51] know it was you. They women reported me.
[38:53] Are you being serious? For they thought I was
[38:55] catfishing Paul Chowdhury, is it?
[38:57] Yeah, they said. Why are you using Paul
[38:59] Chowdhury's pictures? You know why?
[39:00] It's because women will probably talking to you online and you've
[39:02] got such bad people skills. They were like this state, this
[39:05] can't be the real person. The real person is the
[39:08] entertainer and stands in front of people and does public
[39:11] speaking. And this is like one word
[39:13] answers like what up? How you doing?
[39:15] What's your favorite colour? And they're like, that can't be
[39:17] the Paul Chowdhury I know. And it's like, Oh, yeah, yeah,
[39:20] no, that's Paul. They said you're not as funny
[39:23] there and now, Paul Chad, you wouldn't be this unfunny, would
[39:25] they? Yeah, like what?
[39:27] Have you met him? But if I do bits on a dating
[39:30] app, yeah, it's even worse. The thing is, you're so
[39:32] charismatic on stage, and it's kind of astounding that when you
[39:36] come off stage you have none of that.
[39:40] Yeah, I mean, you can't follow your own act.
[39:44] I can't follow myself. You don't live up to you.
[39:48] That's got to be hard. Why am I like this?
[39:52] You're on the spectrum, brother. Do you know what I?
[39:54] Mean how do I cure it? You can't man, this is you and
[39:58] also you're in your 50s now. Let it go.
[39:59] Just work with the fact that you're a bit of a Dick head.
[40:02] How long have I got left now? I mean, who knows in it, the way
[40:04] you're living life longer than everyone.
[40:13] Is that I don't drink smoke. Last time we were out together
[40:16] you were burning a spliff heart. I was with my mum.
[40:19] Do you know what? There's jokes about that.
[40:22] I said remember, I said do your mum know you?
[40:24] Do you know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[40:25] I was like, I'm a bit stoned. And he was like, well, I was
[40:28] watching a gig. I will say I wasn't gig.
[40:30] We were both watching. We were both watching a gig.
[40:32] Leslie Jones, who was amazing. And I was there with my friends
[40:35] and my mum. And I was like, oh, sorry, poor,
[40:37] I'm a bit stoned because my chat was terrible.
[40:39] And he was like, does your mum know?
[40:40] I was like, my mum's white, of course she knows.
[40:42] You know what I mean? I've got a white mum.
[40:44] Yeah, she knows. And then we all went out and
[40:46] alleyway and that doesn't smoke. And then?
[40:50] There's another friend of yours that wanted a selfie with me.
[40:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was a big fan.
[40:54] I was like, yeah, she's a. Massive fan of yours.
[40:56] She was, she was over the moon and she kept on saying, oh, give
[40:59] me another hug, Give me another hug.
[41:01] And then she was like, oh, I don't know if he's being a bit
[41:03] standoffish. I said, are you crazy?
[41:05] I said the fact that he physically touched you on
[41:08] multiple occasions, that means Paul is absolutely loving you,
[41:13] OK? The man doesn't like touching
[41:15] anybody, OK? And you just kept on going in
[41:17] for these big hugs and trying to kiss your cheek and all this
[41:20] shit. And she was like, I don't know
[41:22] if he seemed a bit. I said no, that's Paul coming in
[41:24] at 90%. Yeah, that.
[41:26] That was me being friendly. Yeah.
[41:28] Normally only because it was your friend.
[41:29] Yeah. Anyone else?
[41:30] Lovely. I would have just walked off.
[41:32] Yeah, yeah. No, I know you would have.
[41:34] I know you would have know. He was absolutely lovely.
[41:36] You know, but how do you look so good without?
[41:40] I don't drink, I don't smoke. Oh, intervention, It's not
[41:43] natural. It's not natural.
[41:45] Bonus Bliff. No man, when I say the amount of
[41:47] shit and also I used to be a big K nut, do you know what I mean?
[41:50] So like the amount of things that I have to do now is pure
[41:54] witchery. Pure witchery.
[41:56] I'm out here doing bruv. So you're saying so on a
[41:58] day-to-day basis, what's the best stuff to use?
[42:02] I think what you're doing, to be honest, I think that.
[42:04] I think that. Men don't talk about this, no.
[42:05] But I think, I think that yeah, you're a, you're a trailblazer
[42:08] pool. I think like you've stayed
[42:10] looking youthful because you don't smile that much.
[42:13] It's the the laugh lines. You don't really use your face
[42:17] that much, you know what I'm saying?
[42:20] Every now and again I wonder if, like, one single tear rolls down
[42:23] your cheek and you, you, you know, tap it away like an evil
[42:27] villain. This is me happy.
[42:29] Yeah, same you like, you may as well get Botox because no one
[42:33] would notice you don't fucking move your face anyway, Yeah.
[42:37] Does this gets rid of any lines? Yeah, yeah, look, that little
[42:40] windswept. If I do that.
[42:42] You look the same, is it? Yeah, Same.
[42:45] Yeah. I've got the see these lines
[42:46] here, but the mustache covers if I do that.
[42:49] Yeah, I think the most youthful thing you could do for you would
[42:52] be to try to restore the light behind your eyes.
[42:55] Oh, behind it. Yeah, which is gone.
[42:57] You can do red red light therapy.
[42:59] No, you can't do that. That's called joy.
[43:01] That's called happiness. I mean happiness inside.
[43:07] That's going to be a difficult one to pull off.
[43:10] Oh, it's a lost cause. Not happening me.
[43:12] Do I mean, where do we find that?
[43:14] You know, this is the thing. We wouldn't be here if we had
[43:17] it, would we? Like what?
[43:18] Why am I doing? Why are we alive?
[43:21] Why are we doing this? To try and fill the void.
[43:25] Spend the second home doing nothing like that.
[43:26] Or I WhatsApp you and say yeah, do you want to do the pod?
[43:28] You know this. You're just doing something.
[43:30] Yeah. Go do something.
[43:32] Do you know what I'm saying? Otherwise, like what?
[43:34] What's the point of life? Pretty much.
[43:38] Like why are we? What is it to do?
[43:40] What? The thing is though, I wouldn't
[43:41] like to say this is the point of life sitting with you in a
[43:44] studio. Do you know what I mean?
[43:47] You know, this is life. This is this is a metaphor for
[43:49] life. Well, sitting in the studio with
[43:52] you with some Pickles behind us and your pictures are.
[43:54] AI Pictures. Your fucking AI pictures.
[43:58] Do you know what's funny? I bet you look at those and
[43:59] you're like, but I want to look like that.
[44:03] I wish I looked at. That I know you do.
[44:05] I know you look at me and you're like, I could just see you
[44:07] taking that to the doctors, like Doc, make that happen.
[44:11] When I go to the head, you know I need that hairline.
[44:15] You have that hairline, what's the fucking issue?
[44:17] No, but it's the bit at the front when it comes down.
[44:19] Oh, the little pig. Just go Turkey pool.
[44:21] Just fucking go to just go. Or just go and get your hair
[44:23] plug. Stop, go hair plug.
[44:25] Go get a hair plug. Shave your beard for a couple of
[44:27] months. What was it like being on a
[44:29] catwalk in comparison to being on a stand up stage?
[44:32] Because. Find it's so much easier doing
[44:35] stand up. Yeah, yeah.
[44:36] And I just really didn't. I've found it really nerve
[44:39] wracking doing runway and I find it so much easier doing stand
[44:44] up. I would choose telling jokes on
[44:46] stage any day over walking a runway.
[44:51] Walking is difficult, isn't? It but like walking is difficult
[44:53] if you just don't feel like that person.
[44:56] Like I just felt like I was lying and it was evident
[45:01] because, you know, I got a geezer walk.
[45:03] So it just, you know what I'm saying?
[45:08] So yeah, I just felt like a bit of a fraud.
[45:11] But now when I've seen you walk up on stages, you you'd you use
[45:14] it like a catwalk. Well, probably might read like
[45:17] that in a comedy club in a dingy basement, do you know what I
[45:21] mean? Yeah, and we've gigged in some
[45:23] dingy basement. We've.
[45:24] Gigged in some shit holes. But now you're going on to big,
[45:29] big bombok like tour scene. Oh, is it?
[45:32] I'm in. I'm like in the middle of
[45:33] touring. Are you in the middle of?
[45:34] It now currently. Touring, yeah.
[45:37] In October, which is called the. The Afters.
[45:39] The Afters and this is follow up from your previous tour and I
[45:42] remember you touring a couple of years ago, then you did the
[45:44] sitcom and what's this tour been like?
[45:46] So far so good. It's been really nice and it's
[45:49] been nice to be like in bigger rooms.
[45:52] And I think since my last tour I had someone helping me with
[45:57] social media, so putting up all my comedy clips and stuff.
[46:00] And so it's nice to have people that know you from stand up and
[46:06] you know, specifically you sort, you start to get to kind of see
[46:08] who your audience is, especially when you go to different cities
[46:12] and like we know as like POC's when you're travelling around
[46:16] the country, you know, there's certain places you go and you're
[46:19] kind of like, wait, how am I? Who's my audience here?
[46:21] And so it's been really like heart warming and refreshing
[46:24] actually. I'm surprised, like when I walk
[46:27] out and there's like thousands of people, like, how do you know
[46:29] me? But you've got so many outlets
[46:30] now you've done, you know, I wonder if people come from your
[46:33] modelling days and saying. I don't think so, no, because
[46:37] I'm sitcom, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:39] I think more from the TV show that I wrote.
[46:42] And then there's just like, yeah, there's a bunch of other
[46:44] different things. Now there's as time goes on and
[46:47] your body of work becomes wider, then people can kind of pick and
[46:51] choose or you know what the thing that they know you from.
[46:54] And that's why I try and sort of keep as like authentic as
[46:58] possible in each because you know, you don't know how that
[47:04] person knows. Because I haven't seen you at
[47:05] the club for a while now. Yeah, well, it's because I've
[47:07] been touring and and, you know, but I'll, I'll get back at it, I
[47:13] guess, as soon as I finish touring.
[47:15] I finished at the end of May. I'm going to be coming.
[47:17] Will you come? Definitely going to be there,
[47:19] will you? Yeah.
[47:19] When's the London date? London dates?
[47:22] I'm doing the end of May the I think 20, 24th, 25th, 26th at
[47:27] Hackney Empire. Oh, wicked.
[47:28] Yeah. Three nights.
[47:29] Yeah. Bombo Clan.
[47:31] Sold out baby. Big time rude.
[47:33] Galaxy says you O2 Arena. Come on.
[47:37] Three nights the Empire. Not many comments can do that.
[47:40] Yeah, thank. You hard selling tickets out
[47:42] there now? Yeah, but the first, Yeah, the
[47:45] first night. So the first had the Empire sold
[47:48] in a couple of hours. It was much.
[47:49] Unbelievable. Yeah, I thought, I thought the
[47:51] system went down. I did.
[47:53] I genuinely thought because my my cousin called me and was
[47:56] like, alright man, it's hard to get tickets.
[47:57] I was like, I don't understand why.
[47:59] And then I called up my agent. I was like, hey man, fit the
[48:02] systems down. He was like, oh, let me check.
[48:04] He went, no, he fucking. It's fucking sold out.
[48:06] Unbelievable. And you've got to watch out for
[48:08] those via Go Go Bastards. What's that Ticket touts?
[48:11] Oh, really? They buy them at cost price and
[48:14] then on the day they'll sell them or the few days before at 3
[48:17] or 4 times the price. But you know what I think for
[48:19] you, you have to worry about that because you've got you
[48:22] know, it's been tried and tested.
[48:24] But I think for me do my first like, you know, few Hackney
[48:27] empires. I don't think there's any ticket
[48:29] touts being like, yeah, let me let me let me throw my chips on
[48:33] the table and see if this comics gonna people are gonna buy them
[48:36] again, buy them off me a more expensive price point.
[48:40] Well, I just want to say if you're watching Michelle,
[48:44] Michelle de Schwartz is one of the finest in the industry and
[48:47] you must go and see her on the tour.
[48:50] She's touring all over the UK. Hackney Empire is sold out, but
[48:53] I'm sure additional dates will be added to this much
[48:58] anticipated tour. And you're now coming into
[49:02] yourself in the industry which I've been waiting for for a
[49:04] number of years. I knew there was a time.
[49:05] They're going to come. You're going to blow up.
[49:07] I think that time has come. Paul Chowdhury, thank you so
[49:11] much. I genuinely adore you and you've
[49:15] always just been so supportive and so nice.
[49:18] And yeah, thanks for having me. And you'll always be my sister,
[49:21] and you're always welcome. Thanks.
[49:23] And also this is this is one of those moments where I must be
[49:26] doing all right if you'll be on screen with me on your own show.
[49:29] Thanks. An exclusive look at the
[49:32] production. Thanks for watching this podcast
[49:35] so far. Hope you're enjoying it and if
[49:37] you are, leave a five star review, drop some comments.
[49:41] I might even read them out in future episodes and give you a
[49:45] shout out.

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