# Rory McIlroy Stories: The Masters Win, Historical Rank, Tiger Woods

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 8 Apr 2026, 38 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/b0dd69bc-d86a-44a6-9f3c-b426017f516d/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin is joined by sportswriter & author Alan Shipnuck who just released his newest book “Rory” They start with Rory McIlroy’s evolution and why he became a bit testier and wears his emotions on his sleeve more now that he’s later in his career. They discuss how to best categorize Rory’s career, and Alan explains why it’s been a play with three acts, and that Rory is still in his prime with his best golf likely still ahead of him (4:00). They talk about how Rory’s personal life lands someone in the middle between Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson, and why Rory is more authentic than both of them and why Tiger & Phil would likely trade their career & life for Rory’s (10:00). They discuss Rory’s beef with Alan stemming from his lack of control over the narrative of the book and how they eventually resolved it (14:30). They preview Rory’s chances of repeating at The Masters and what to expect with him now that the pressure of winning the tournament is off his shoulders (20:00). They revisit Rory’s meteoric rise in his late teens to early twenties, his bouts with homesickness as he traveled the world and how he handled superstardom and a high-profile divorce at a young age (25:00). They also discuss why Rory became the face of the anti-LIV golf movement and why his upbringing contributed to that sense of loyalty to the PGA Tour (29:00). Finally, they break down why Rory is the most popular non-American golfer at American tournaments (32:30), what made his Masters win last year so unforgettable and whether can achieve his goal of winning 9 majors (36:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: The volume.
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[1:01] Speaker 1: Well.
[1:02] Speaker 2: Alan Schifnuk has been a go to author for me
[1:06] Speaker 2: when I want to read about golf. He wrote Rory,
[1:10] Speaker 2: Just finish it, The Heartache and Triumph of Golf's most
[1:13] Speaker 2: Human Superstar. It is available now. I went into the
[1:19] Speaker 2: book with one idea about what Rory McElroy was, and
[1:26] Speaker 2: a third of the way through the book I was
[1:29] Speaker 2: learning things I did not know before. And if you're
[1:32] Speaker 2: going to watch the Masters this weekend, and you know
[1:35] Speaker 2: you got some time you're gonna be in front of
[1:37] Speaker 2: the TV, I strongly suggest buying the book Rory, The
[1:43] Speaker 2: Heartache and Triumph of Golf's most Human Superstar. He is
[1:46] Speaker 2: also the author of ten books. The one about Phil
[1:51] Speaker 2: was so fascinating because I told you before I went
[1:55] Speaker 2: into that book, and I think the comp I said
[1:59] Speaker 2: is when Oliver Stone made Wall Street, he didn't like
[2:04] Speaker 2: he didn't want to make Gordon Gecko a likable character,
[2:08] Speaker 2: but it translated to so many young men who wanted
[2:12] Speaker 2: to be Wall Streight Wall Street brokers because of the movie.
[2:17] Speaker 2: And I read your film book and I'm like, actually,
[2:20] Speaker 2: he's just authentically lobsided and at times unkept and out
[2:24] Speaker 2: of control. I liked philm More, which I'm sure I
[2:29] Speaker 2: don't think you cared either way, but obviously, but with Rory,
[2:34] Speaker 2: I went in liking him, and I've got to be
[2:37] Speaker 2: honest some of his behavior and maybe it's just maybe
[2:45] Speaker 2: it's the way golfers are because they are owners and
[2:49] Speaker 2: operators of their business. I mean, they may hire a manager,
[2:54] Speaker 2: but they're largely running their operation. Would it be fair
[2:58] Speaker 2: to say that Rory McElroy's personality as he's aged got
[3:07] Speaker 2: a little testier, a little more defensive, and it became
[3:12] Speaker 2: what great golfers do to protect themselves.
[3:17] Speaker 1: I think that's very fair. He certainly became more polarizing,
[3:21] Speaker 1: but even as all that was happening, he still remained
[3:25] Speaker 1: emotionally available in a way that very very few athletes are.
[3:30] Speaker 1: You know, Rory lets you into his heart. There's an
[3:32] Speaker 1: impetuousness there. You see it on the golf course, you
[3:35] Speaker 1: see it in the press room, you see in his
[3:37] Speaker 1: love life, his business life. That's just who he is.
[3:39] Speaker 1: And I think he shares that a little bit with Phil,
[3:42] Speaker 1: and he doesn't have the same kind of demons that
[3:44] Speaker 1: Phil does. But it's ironic as Rory, you know, he
[3:48] Speaker 1: venerated Tiger as a golfer. Tiger was a very he
[3:53] Speaker 1: was averse to mistakes, and he was very buttoned up
[3:55] Speaker 1: as a golfer. Rory plays a game a lot more
[3:58] Speaker 1: like Phil and so it's funny how the paths diverge.
[4:03] Speaker 1: But that's part of why I wanted to write a
[4:06] Speaker 1: book about Rory, because I would say five years ago,
[4:08] Speaker 1: he was sort of universally beloved. He was this cute,
[4:11] Speaker 1: little leprechaun character who everybody enjoyed, and he was kind
[4:14] Speaker 1: of kind of had a sweetness about him. And he
[4:18] Speaker 1: has gotten more interesting. He was at the center of
[4:20] Speaker 1: the storm of this, you know, battle for the soul
[4:22] Speaker 1: of golf between the PJ Tour. He's he made it
[4:26] Speaker 1: very personal. He was the biggest troll of the whole operation.
[4:29] Speaker 1: He's taken on a lot of tough issues, whether it
[4:34] Speaker 1: was the Olympics, whether it was the Ryder Cup. Like
[4:36] Speaker 1: Rory has just he's not afraid to hold back. He
[4:42] Speaker 1: tells you what he's feeling at all times. Now sometimes
[4:44] Speaker 1: he will walk it back, he will regret it. But
[4:46] Speaker 1: even that I give him credit for because it's hard
[4:50] Speaker 1: to say in public life. He made a mistake, and
[4:52] Speaker 1: you know he'll do that. He'll say I thought about
[4:55] Speaker 1: it and I changed my mind. So you're right, he's
[4:58] Speaker 1: become a spike he but I still think he's a
[5:01] Speaker 1: very appealing character. And I think the reason he resonates
[5:06] Speaker 1: with fans is because there's an openness and ungarden is
[5:09] Speaker 1: that's very rare, and they start contrast, you know, to Tiger.
[5:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, I always think Tiger became even more likable. I
[5:20] Speaker 2: think he was worshiped early. But Tiger's last Masters was
[5:25] Speaker 2: the one that touched me because he was vulnerable, he
[5:27] Speaker 2: was flawed, And I felt the same way when Rory
[5:31] Speaker 2: seventeenth try won the Masters. I don't know if I've
[5:35] Speaker 2: ever not only did I watch every shot, I canceled
[5:38] Speaker 2: everything I had to do For three days, I just
[5:41] Speaker 2: lived in front of a TV. And Rory's so fascinating
[5:46] Speaker 2: because there are those who would say he didn't win
[5:49] Speaker 2: a major in his prime, for it was eleven years,
[5:53] Speaker 2: yet he had four majors by twenty five. How do
[5:57] Speaker 2: we categorize this morning, this afternoon his career.
[6:01] Speaker 1: So I you know, I'm not a playwright, but I
[6:04] Speaker 1: think there's three acts to Rory's career, and you know,
[6:08] Speaker 1: Act one is he's this phenom, He's this boy wonder,
[6:12] Speaker 1: he's this prodigy, and he wins all those majors. Like
[6:15] Speaker 1: you said, he gets the number one, and he just
[6:17] Speaker 1: has the world in the palm of his hand. And
[6:19] Speaker 1: you know, Act Too is this long, challenging quest to
[6:23] Speaker 1: fulfill his destiny, to win the Masters, to be the
[6:26] Speaker 1: greatest player of his generation, to find peace on and
[6:30] Speaker 1: off the golf course, to wrestle with the complications of
[6:33] Speaker 1: adult life. And you know, him winning the Masters, and
[6:37] Speaker 1: then what happened to the Ryder Cup That drops the
[6:40] Speaker 1: curtain on Act too. And so to me, it's the
[6:43] Speaker 1: perfect time to bring the book out because we can
[6:45] Speaker 1: look at how we got here, and then there's this
[6:47] Speaker 1: tantalizing like look ahead and projecting forward what we might see.
[6:52] Speaker 1: And I think that Rory is very squarely in his
[6:56] Speaker 1: crime and that some of his best golf is probably
[6:58] Speaker 1: still in front of him because he has been so unburdened.
[7:02] Speaker 1: And you know, and I'm here in Augusta and watching
[7:04] Speaker 1: him swan around Augusta National in his green jacket. Nobody's
[7:09] Speaker 1: ever had more fun being defending champ. He's at the
[7:12] Speaker 1: Women's Amateur, he's at the drive chip and putt, he's
[7:14] Speaker 1: holding court on the balcony of the clubhouse, and there
[7:19] Speaker 1: is a lightness of being to Rory that we've never
[7:22] Speaker 1: seen here. He was always on a knife's edge Masters week,
[7:25] Speaker 1: and he looks so happy and so content, and I
[7:29] Speaker 1: would not be the tiniest bit surprised if he goes
[7:31] Speaker 1: out to sixty two in the first round, and because
[7:35] Speaker 1: it's going to be the easiest round of golf he's
[7:37] Speaker 1: ever played at Augusta National, it might be the most
[7:39] Speaker 1: fun round of golf was the entire life, because all
[7:41] Speaker 1: the pressure is off and he has fulfilled his destiny.
[7:45] Speaker 1: He's a Grand Slam winner. He's done something only five
[7:48] Speaker 1: other men have ever done. He's in the pantheon forever,
[7:51] Speaker 1: and now he can keep chasing. Because Rory cares deeply
[7:57] Speaker 1: about his place in history and he's the crown Jewels.
[8:00] Speaker 1: He wants to win and Open at St. Andrews, he
[8:03] Speaker 1: wants to win a US Open at Pebble Beats, and
[8:06] Speaker 1: he does not want to be a one time Masters champion.
[8:08] Speaker 1: There's a lot of those guys, whether Charles Schwartzel or
[8:12] Speaker 1: Trevor Immelman or Danny Willett, they won the Masters and
[8:15] Speaker 1: they never really did anything after that. That is not
[8:17] Speaker 1: Rory's destiny. He wants to win multiple jackets. He wants
[8:20] Speaker 1: to go back to back, like he wants to put
[8:23] Speaker 1: his stamp on this tournament forever. So he's not done,
[8:26] Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna be really fun to watch
[8:28] Speaker 1: the fireworks for the next portion of his career.
[8:34] Speaker 2: You know, Tiger, because of his upbringing, was almost robotics socially,
[8:38] Speaker 2: and then because of that he kind of sometimes inappropriately,
[8:45] Speaker 2: oftentimes inappropriately exploded socially and did things that were just
[8:52] Speaker 2: not all right with the sports world and with his family.
[8:57] Speaker 2: Phil was the opposite. Phil lived large and air Arizona State.
[9:01] Speaker 2: Could I categorize Rory is a little bit of both.
[9:05] Speaker 2: He had some of the robotics the wrong word, a
[9:13] Speaker 2: very very aware of ascension, legacy and greatness, like like Tiger,
[9:21] Speaker 2: and he wasn't going to let anything getting away with it.
[9:24] Speaker 2: But like Phil, he's a good looking guy, he's well built,
[9:28] Speaker 2: he's you know, he's got money. He liked to live
[9:31] Speaker 2: the life that He's a little bit of a Tiger,
[9:35] Speaker 2: you know, aspirational. I mean Phil almost at times had
[9:41] Speaker 2: so much fun you worried about if he was throwing
[9:44] Speaker 2: this thing at times away was he really just throwing
[9:46] Speaker 2: with risky play. I feel Rory's Rory's more less emotionally
[9:54] Speaker 2: remote than Tiger, but more under control than Phil. Is
[9:58] Speaker 2: that a de yes?
[10:01] Speaker 1: I like that it's easy to think of them together
[10:04] Speaker 1: because there's no doubt that the most popular players of
[10:07] Speaker 1: the last thirty plus years are Tiger, Phil and Rory.
[10:10] Speaker 1: Now two of them have had their lives and their
[10:12] Speaker 1: careers sidetracked by addiction, by scandal, by greed, by vice,
[10:18] Speaker 1: and Rory is somehow, He's wobbled a little bit, he's
[10:21] Speaker 1: wavered a little but he has to maintain his dignity
[10:26] Speaker 1: and he's He's moved through the world with a certain
[10:29] Speaker 1: ease and a certain grace, and that's why people are
[10:34] Speaker 1: in dear to him, because he's not a maniac like Phil.
[10:38] Speaker 1: He's not a robot like Tiger. And you know, Rory
[10:42] Speaker 1: likes the finer things in life. He has the jets
[10:44] Speaker 1: and the watches, and his dad always has a fancy watch.
[10:49] Speaker 1: But you know, deep down, they're a blue collar family
[10:52] Speaker 1: from a scrappy little town outside of Belfast, and they've
[10:55] Speaker 1: never forgotten where they've come from. And you know, Rory,
[11:01] Speaker 1: he's close to his parents, He talks about their influence
[11:04] Speaker 1: all the time. His closest friends are all guys he
[11:06] Speaker 1: grew up with, Like they keep it real for him,
[11:09] Speaker 1: and they love to take the piss, as they say
[11:11] Speaker 1: over in Ireland, like they give him a hard time.
[11:13] Speaker 1: And whereas you know Phil, Phil could have these he
[11:18] Speaker 1: could be magnanimous, and he could say and do the
[11:21] Speaker 1: right things, but you never knew if it was real,
[11:23] Speaker 1: if it was all an act. It was all puffery.
[11:26] Speaker 1: With Rory, you know, it's from the heart. And Tiger
[11:30] Speaker 1: was an introvert. That was a source of a lot
[11:32] Speaker 1: of his awkwardness. He didn't like crowds people. Yes, he
[11:35] Speaker 1: was never comfortable in this role that was thrust upon him.
[11:39] Speaker 1: Rory loves people. He's an entertainer. When you see himt dinner,
[11:41] Speaker 1: he's always got ten people around him. He's always making
[11:44] Speaker 1: them laugh. They'll always pick up the check. He's just
[11:46] Speaker 1: good company. And so when you look at them as
[11:50] Speaker 1: a trio, I think, you know, even though Tiger has
[11:54] Speaker 1: all the trophies and you know Phil's one more tournaments
[11:57] Speaker 1: and Rory, I think both of them would gladly trade
[11:59] Speaker 1: life with Rory, who is universally beloved and respected and
[12:05] Speaker 1: his body's not smashed up. He's not a victim of
[12:08] Speaker 1: these large scale controversies. He hasn't been arrested, he hasn't
[12:11] Speaker 1: been investigated for insider trading. Like he's just it's a
[12:15] Speaker 1: life well lived and in this to grow up in
[12:18] Speaker 1: the in the white hot spotlight, spotlight as he did.
[12:23] Speaker 1: I think it's it's the book I think has a
[12:26] Speaker 1: feel good tenor to it. And that was honestly something
[12:28] Speaker 1: I wanted because I don't want to write the same
[12:30] Speaker 1: thing over and over. Like the Michelson book was super controversial,
[12:34] Speaker 1: the follow up Live and Let Die was very overheated
[12:36] Speaker 1: and bitchy, like I don't want to repeat myself, And
[12:39] Speaker 1: I was partly, I think, while I was drawn to
[12:40] Speaker 1: Rory because it is a feel good story and I
[12:43] Speaker 1: think it's okay to celebrate him and the way he's
[12:46] Speaker 1: lived his life. Yeah.
[12:49] Speaker 2: I mean there's a moment where his dad calls Jack
[12:52] Speaker 2: Nicholas Jack and he's like it's mister Nicholas. Like there's
[12:55] Speaker 2: a reverence toward the history of golf. But there is
[12:59] Speaker 2: also one moment where you're on the driving range and uh,
[13:03] Speaker 2: this is where I was startled. I was like, Okay,
[13:06] Speaker 2: I don't like Rory. What is he's He's screaming at
[13:08] Speaker 2: my guy Alan and so and again it's it's a
[13:12] Speaker 2: moment in time where you're just off. I think if
[13:16] Speaker 2: I recall with his agent or who were you with, Yeah,
[13:19] Speaker 2: it was his agent, and he sees you and he
[13:22] Speaker 2: just comes over and drops the expletive. Take take the
[13:28] Speaker 2: audience to that and and and the healing and you
[13:34] Speaker 2: and Rory's relationship now, because it was I mean I
[13:37] Speaker 2: read that and I thought, wow, I could picture it.
[13:40] Speaker 2: I was just recently a live event and brooks Kopka
[13:43] Speaker 2: came over and said something nice to me, and I'm like, oh,
[13:45] Speaker 2: it's so personal. I thought golfers liked us to watch them.
[13:48] Speaker 2: So take take the people who haven't read the book
[13:51] Speaker 2: yet to that moment.
[13:51] Speaker 1: Because before the second round of the US Open at Oakmont,
[13:54] Speaker 1: and I've been working on the book for over a year,
[13:56] Speaker 1: and so of course it's getting back to Rory. I'm
[13:58] Speaker 1: interviewing all these people, I'm his hometown, I'm doing this,
[14:01] Speaker 1: I'm doing that right, And it had just gotten in
[14:03] Speaker 1: his head and so he and this was we all
[14:06] Speaker 1: saw after Augusta. He went through this existential crisis. You know,
[14:09] Speaker 1: he'd he'd been chasing this thing for so long. He
[14:12] Speaker 1: finally had it. And he looked around from the top
[14:14] Speaker 1: of the mountain and he said, is you know, what
[14:16] Speaker 1: do I do next? And he was kind of struggling
[14:18] Speaker 1: there and and so that was part of it as well.
[14:23] Speaker 1: But and he said, yeah, he looks back and he
[14:25] Speaker 1: sees me, and this is thirty minutes before he's going
[14:27] Speaker 1: to play in the United States Open and he's getting
[14:31] Speaker 1: his beat with me. And I let it go in
[14:33] Speaker 1: the moment. But I waited for him two days later
[14:35] Speaker 1: in the parking lot because I wanted to have a
[14:37] Speaker 1: philosophical discussion. And I basically was like, bro, what was
[14:39] Speaker 1: that all about? You know, why are you so mad?
[14:42] Speaker 1: And you know, he told me it pisses me off.
[14:45] Speaker 1: You're making money off my name. But it's not about money.
[14:49] Speaker 1: He has plenty of it and books there ain't much
[14:51] Speaker 1: money in books. It was just it was as a
[14:53] Speaker 1: matter of control. He controls every aspect of his public life,
[14:57] Speaker 1: and he knew he had no Dutch control over this book.
[15:00] Speaker 1: And that's very unsettling for a guy in Rory's position,
[15:04] Speaker 1: And so that's why he was pushing me away, but
[15:07] Speaker 1: there is a happy ending. Colin. So you know, I
[15:10] Speaker 1: live in northern California. I went to the tournament Pebble
[15:12] Speaker 1: Beach a couple of months ago, and I gave a
[15:14] Speaker 1: couple of copies of the book to Rory's manager, and
[15:16] Speaker 1: I told him I wouldn't give it to you this
[15:18] Speaker 1: early if I thought you guys were going to hate it.
[15:19] Speaker 1: I said, if you can read it with an open mind,
[15:22] Speaker 1: you'll see that there's a lot of affection in this portrait.
[15:25] Speaker 1: And despite the way Rory treated me, I'm such a
[15:28] Speaker 1: consummate professional that I wrote it with good intentions. And
[15:33] Speaker 1: so so later that afternoon, Rory came into the press
[15:37] Speaker 1: room and he walked right up to me, shook my hand,
[15:40] Speaker 1: said hey, thanks for the book. You know, looking forward
[15:42] Speaker 1: to reading it. And I said, I think you'll like it,
[15:45] Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, i'll tell you if I do.
[15:46] Speaker 1: And I think that was his sort of public gesture
[15:49] Speaker 1: because as a front of the whole press corps, tournament officials,
[15:52] Speaker 1: PGA tour officials like I think that was his way
[15:54] Speaker 1: of apologizing for what happened at Oakmont in his own way.
[15:58] Speaker 1: And then now you fast forward a few days. It's
[16:00] Speaker 1: Sunday night, tournament's over. I write my story. The whole
[16:04] Speaker 1: place is cleared out at Pebble Beach. Now I'm walking
[16:06] Speaker 1: to my car. It's dark, it's misty, and I bump
[16:09] Speaker 1: into Rory. He's going to the tap room to get
[16:11] Speaker 1: a drink, and you know, make a joke about all
[16:14] Speaker 1: the gin joints, you're gonna run into me. And but
[16:17] Speaker 1: he said, you know what, I read the first chapter
[16:19] Speaker 1: of the book. He's like, it was funny. It made
[16:22] Speaker 1: me laugh, and that has some of this very spicy
[16:24] Speaker 1: material you're talking about, and so, oh yeah. So I
[16:27] Speaker 1: think I'm in a good place with Rory. And on
[16:29] Speaker 1: a human level, I appreciate that. But as a biographer,
[16:34] Speaker 1: he's not my audience. I don't really care if he
[16:36] Speaker 1: likes a book or not. I write it for the fans,
[16:39] Speaker 1: and my job is to be an honest broker with
[16:41] Speaker 1: the reader and just tell it the way it is
[16:43] Speaker 1: and capture the totality of the subject. And you know,
[16:48] Speaker 1: you talked about your feelings reading the Field book, and
[16:51] Speaker 1: it was interesting because there was a there was quite
[16:53] Speaker 1: a schism on folks who read it. A lot of
[16:55] Speaker 1: people had your reaction, like, he's more real, He's more
[16:58] Speaker 1: human to me. I like him. We lost fans too,
[17:00] Speaker 1: he said, you know, they resented the way he treated
[17:02] Speaker 1: his his caddy and all the gambling and this and that,
[17:05] Speaker 1: and so that told me I might have done an
[17:08] Speaker 1: okay job as his biographer because I just laid out
[17:10] Speaker 1: a very complex person. Yeah, the reader decide, And that
[17:14] Speaker 1: was always my goal with Rory, And I told him,
[17:16] Speaker 1: I said, I have no agenda, like, I'm not trying
[17:18] Speaker 1: to to win or lose fans for you. I just
[17:21] Speaker 1: want to tell your story and let the readers decide.
[17:23] Speaker 1: And so I think in the final analysis, it's a
[17:28] Speaker 1: feel good story because he has this redemption as a
[17:30] Speaker 1: player to win the Masters, he goes to Beth Page,
[17:33] Speaker 1: he's kind of redeemed as a family man, as a husband,
[17:36] Speaker 1: as a human, and we've been along for this whole
[17:40] Speaker 1: journey and so so I'm happy if he enjoys it
[17:43] Speaker 1: and if he has good feelings around the book. But
[17:45] Speaker 1: I care much more about you and the people listening
[17:47] Speaker 1: at home, because that's what I'm writing it for.
[17:51] Speaker 2: Does he have a chance to win this weekend? How
[17:53] Speaker 2: Our's last three.
[17:54] Speaker 1: Rounds well, rounds, so had he heard he tweaked his
[17:58] Speaker 1: back in the gym. He hasn't played in three weeks.
[18:00] Speaker 1: He comes in a little rusty and people have been
[18:03] Speaker 1: kind of writing him off. But watching Rory at Augusta
[18:07] Speaker 1: National these last few days, he is having the time
[18:10] Speaker 1: of his life and he just looks so unencumbered, Like
[18:14] Speaker 1: I really feel like he's gonna mount a very spirited
[18:18] Speaker 1: defense and he's gonna be carried along by the goodwill
[18:22] Speaker 1: of the fans. You know, he played the hardest round
[18:25] Speaker 1: of his entire career on last Sunday at the Masters,
[18:30] Speaker 1: and I think he's gonna step to the first tee
[18:32] Speaker 1: and feel so much freedom and so much joy and
[18:35] Speaker 1: so much pride that he did it. I mean, in
[18:38] Speaker 1: my mind, he's almost made himself the favorite with just
[18:41] Speaker 1: this this this jauntiness that he's carrying himself with. So yeah,
[18:46] Speaker 1: he absolutely has a great chance to win. I would
[18:50] Speaker 1: actually be surprised if he's not there late on Sunday.
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[20:34] Speaker 2: When you're on the outside looking in, you think it's
[20:36] Speaker 2: a perfect world. You know, dating stars Rich there's a
[20:41] Speaker 2: moment in his teen years when he breaks down, and
[20:47] Speaker 2: I think it's it's poignant and it's telling about kind
[20:51] Speaker 2: of who he is.
[20:52] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean there's so much there, that homesick moment.
[20:55] Speaker 1: That was really his rookie year on the European Tour
[20:57] Speaker 1: and he was only eighteen years old. He went to Malaysia,
[21:01] Speaker 1: he went to Korea, and these places felt so alien
[21:05] Speaker 1: to him. And he's actually sitting on the edge of
[21:06] Speaker 1: his bed eating you know, pringles and krop misses like
[21:11] Speaker 1: Harry point In, you know, because yeah, it does seem
[21:15] Speaker 1: like a glamorous life, but it's not easy. And it's
[21:18] Speaker 1: part of why his caddy is his best friend, because
[21:21] Speaker 1: it gives him comfort. You know, nobody's going to tell
[21:24] Speaker 1: Roy McElroy how to play golf. He doesn't need some
[21:27] Speaker 1: strategists or some hard ass old guy to tell him
[21:30] Speaker 1: what club to hit, Like, that's not what he's looking for.
[21:32] Speaker 1: He's looking for comfort and ease and a friendly face
[21:36] Speaker 1: as he's traveled in the world, and that's why that
[21:38] Speaker 1: partnership with Harry Diamond has been so impactful. But yeah,
[21:42] Speaker 1: I mean, this is a question for a biographer, like
[21:45] Speaker 1: how much of a person's you know, private life should
[21:49] Speaker 1: be in the book. And you'd like to say even
[21:52] Speaker 1: a public figure deserves a little privacy. That's probably an
[21:55] Speaker 1: old fashioned notion. But you know, when he's twenty one,
[21:58] Speaker 1: he starts dating Caroline Mosnyaki, who's one tennis player in
[22:02] Speaker 1: the world, total babe, and it's like this match made
[22:06] Speaker 1: in tabloid heaven. And you know, Rory's going from his
[22:10] Speaker 1: tournaments to her tournaments, to corporate doubtings to his tournaments
[22:13] Speaker 1: to her tournaments, and he talks about losing his center,
[22:16] Speaker 1: losing the sense of where he's from and who he is,
[22:19] Speaker 1: and he starts playing the worst golf of his career.
[22:22] Speaker 1: And he comes to this ruthless determination that's either it's
[22:26] Speaker 1: either Caroline or it's golf. And he chooses which is
[22:30] Speaker 1: his real first love, and he the invitations for their
[22:34] Speaker 1: wedding have already been mailed out, and he breaks your heart.
[22:37] Speaker 1: He ends, He ends the marriage, and then he goes
[22:40] Speaker 1: on this historic tear and plays the best golf of
[22:43] Speaker 1: his life. So it would be a dereliction of duty
[22:46] Speaker 1: as his biographer not to get into all of this.
[22:48] Speaker 1: There's a straight line from ending the marriage to winning
[22:52] Speaker 1: major championships, and so when the private life spills in
[22:57] Speaker 1: between the ropes, when it affects the golf, you can't ignore.
[23:00] Speaker 1: And so that was really the first crisis of his
[23:03] Speaker 1: young life. And I'm sure he has some misgivings about
[23:07] Speaker 1: the way he handled it interpersonally, but in the final analysis,
[23:10] Speaker 1: he probably made the right choice, you know, same thing.
[23:13] Speaker 1: You know, he has these these busts up in his
[23:15] Speaker 1: business life that one of them gets extremely contagious. There's
[23:18] Speaker 1: lawsuits for criminations. He has to basically pay these old
[23:21] Speaker 1: agent twenty million dollars to go away. And is Rory
[23:26] Speaker 1: to your question, is Rory gonna like the book or not.
[23:28] Speaker 1: He's not gonna love reliving that, but it's fundamental to
[23:31] Speaker 1: who he is, how he got here. He's reorganized his
[23:34] Speaker 1: entire business life in an extremely effective manner. He's making
[23:38] Speaker 1: so much money away from golf, he probably forgets to
[23:41] Speaker 1: pick up the checks after he wins because it's just
[23:43] Speaker 1: a drop in the bucket, and so like, this has
[23:47] Speaker 1: to be part of the story. And so yeah, he's
[23:50] Speaker 1: faced setbacks and that's what makes him interesting. You know,
[23:54] Speaker 1: if he was just this boy wonder who won everything
[23:57] Speaker 1: and had this linear life, they wouldn't make for a
[24:00] Speaker 1: very good book. But it's the it's the challenges, it's
[24:03] Speaker 1: the humiliations, it's the heartbreaks, it's the regret. That's what
[24:08] Speaker 1: gives the book a beating heart. And it sets up
[24:11] Speaker 1: the triumphs and the victories and the satisfaction and the
[24:15] Speaker 1: joy and you can't have one without the other.
[24:19] Speaker 2: As you noted, he was the face of anti live golf.
[24:27] Speaker 2: Is that his childhood telling him to do that? Is
[24:30] Speaker 2: it a handler? Is it just at his soul what
[24:35] Speaker 2: the PGA means to him? Because it was it was
[24:38] Speaker 2: certainly not a courageous stand, but it was a really
[24:41] Speaker 2: defiant stand and one that other notable golfers did not
[24:45] Speaker 2: make or does it.
[24:46] Speaker 1: Rory has a very strong moral compass and he was
[24:51] Speaker 1: raised you know, his parents they recognized they had the
[24:53] Speaker 1: special talent, but they never let me get out of
[24:56] Speaker 1: line on the golf course, in the classroom like his
[24:59] Speaker 1: parents were on him. And at the same time he
[25:02] Speaker 1: was surrounded by love and support, and so he's just
[25:06] Speaker 1: had always been a kind of a black and white character.
[25:09] Speaker 1: There's right and there's wrong. And at the same time
[25:12] Speaker 1: he's are traditionalists, you know, he was raised in a
[25:14] Speaker 1: different culture here. There's obviously the European Tour. They venerate
[25:20] Speaker 1: the players who have come before them, and the institution
[25:23] Speaker 1: of the European Tour, the institution of the PGA Tour
[25:25] Speaker 1: mean a lot to Rory and it has His legacy
[25:30] Speaker 1: is built on these platforms and he has veneration for
[25:34] Speaker 1: the old tournaments, the old courses, the old time golfers,
[25:37] Speaker 1: and so Live Golf came in and tried to tear
[25:40] Speaker 1: all that down and he was offended. And you know
[25:45] Speaker 1: he had even three years before Live arrived. That was
[25:47] Speaker 1: when the Saudis first began their incursion into professional golf.
[25:52] Speaker 1: It was this European Tour event called the Saudi International,
[25:55] Speaker 1: and the first one was held in you know, the
[25:58] Speaker 1: winter of twenty nineteen. It was only three or four
[26:00] Speaker 1: months after Jamal Koshogi was assassinated and dismembered by the
[26:05] Speaker 1: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the entire Western world was
[26:08] Speaker 1: distancing themselves from the Saudis on a business level. On
[26:13] Speaker 1: a professional level, the only friends they had turned out
[26:16] Speaker 1: to be a professional golf The European Tour knocked into
[26:18] Speaker 1: the tournament, and that meant so much to this culture
[26:22] Speaker 1: where saving face is so important, and that helped create
[26:26] Speaker 1: this momentum that ultimately led to Live Golf and to
[26:29] Speaker 1: make that first tournament of success, they paid unheard of
[26:32] Speaker 1: appearance fees, and brooks Kepka went and Dustin Johnson and
[26:35] Speaker 1: Patrick Reid and Bryce and Deshambo and Phil Micholson, like
[26:38] Speaker 1: all the guys who wound up on live played in
[26:40] Speaker 1: that first tournament, and they offered Rory millions of dollars
[26:43] Speaker 1: and he said no. He said, there's a morally to it.
[26:46] Speaker 1: I don't want their money, I don't want their blood money,
[26:49] Speaker 1: and that I want to be on the right side
[26:50] Speaker 1: of history. And so he saw it in very stark terms.
[26:54] Speaker 1: He never wavered, and they would have given him half
[26:56] Speaker 1: a billion dollars or more to come to live golf,
[26:59] Speaker 1: but he was never even ten because he just felt
[27:02] Speaker 1: like they were trying to destroy what his heroes had
[27:06] Speaker 1: built and he wanted to carry that legacy on. And
[27:10] Speaker 1: it will be a part of his story that Rory
[27:12] Speaker 1: helped save the PGA tour. He deserves that. He earned
[27:15] Speaker 1: that with his advocacy, with his diplomacy, and the way
[27:19] Speaker 1: he reshaped the tour into a much leaner and much
[27:23] Speaker 1: more competitively interesting platform, and they made it more star driven.
[27:30] Speaker 1: They funneled a lot of money the top players, and
[27:31] Speaker 1: it stopped this exodus of guys to live golf. And
[27:34] Speaker 1: that was Rory's vision and he made it happen with
[27:36] Speaker 1: his political capitals. So you know, he just like Nicholas
[27:40] Speaker 1: and Palmer birthed the PGA Tour in nineteen sixty eight.
[27:45] Speaker 1: You know, Rory helped save it and that has meaning
[27:47] Speaker 1: to him more than a bag full of money.
[27:52] Speaker 2: All countries are provincial. Canadians want to see Canadians win
[27:55] Speaker 2: when they watched the CBC Olympics. But I felt watching
[28:02] Speaker 2: and I felt this more than once watching Rory, that
[28:06] Speaker 2: he's the most popular golfer on the golf course in
[28:08] Speaker 2: America at a major. Is that historically rare? Has there
[28:12] Speaker 2: ever been anybody else from overseas that the American crowd
[28:18] Speaker 2: views as an ally? And on at that Masters, it
[28:21] Speaker 2: was obvious America Augusta was rooting Ferrari in your life
[28:27] Speaker 2: covering golf, Is that a distinction that's singularly Rory's.
[28:32] Speaker 1: Yes, and that that's insightful. I mean, I would say
[28:37] Speaker 1: the only non American who who might threaten for that,
[28:40] Speaker 1: and it's the smaller window is Greg Norman. You know,
[28:43] Speaker 1: he looked like a Bond villain. He had this charisma,
[28:46] Speaker 1: he lived large, he played the Yeah, he had the swagger,
[28:53] Speaker 1: but and I think Norman was probably that guy for
[28:56] Speaker 1: a few years, but then he tried to create this
[28:59] Speaker 1: World Tour funded by Rupert Murdoch to compete with the
[29:03] Speaker 1: PGA Tour, and he became a pariah and he just
[29:06] Speaker 1: sort of set himself on fire in nineteen ninety four
[29:08] Speaker 1: and he ended that adoration because like live Golf, he tried,
[29:12] Speaker 1: he tried to burn it all down. And so definitely
[29:16] Speaker 1: no one's ever had it as long as Rory does.
[29:18] Speaker 1: And you know, Sebby Biasteros was this amazingly charismatic figure,
[29:22] Speaker 1: but he was battling the PGA Tour. He was raging
[29:25] Speaker 1: against the machine and and he was he had he
[29:28] Speaker 1: burned hot. He had this spikiness and you he just
[29:32] Speaker 1: radiated this the seating intensity that I think fans could
[29:36] Speaker 1: appreciate the genius, but they never felt the connection like
[29:38] Speaker 1: they do with Rory. And it's because Rory's flawed and
[29:42] Speaker 1: there's a fragility there. I think it makes him so
[29:46] Speaker 1: compelling because you know, when Tiger had a lead on
[29:50] Speaker 1: at a major, he just snuffed the life out of it.
[29:54] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
[29:55] Speaker 2: But but Rory's blown a couple and we're.
[29:57] Speaker 1: Lots of high wire act while he's juggling chainsaws, and
[30:00] Speaker 1: when you saw that headed gust like that final round
[30:04] Speaker 1: and he saw people forget he shot the low round
[30:07] Speaker 1: of the day on Friday and Saturday last year. He
[30:09] Speaker 1: was playing literally the best golf of his life. He
[30:12] Speaker 1: was in total command of his golf ball and then
[30:16] Speaker 1: the weight of history and you know, as his putting coach,
[30:19] Speaker 1: Brad Fax, are called the angels and demons on his shoulder,
[30:21] Speaker 1: like it was a metaphysical battle, and everyone was along
[30:25] Speaker 1: for the ride, and you could see the strain and
[30:28] Speaker 1: the stress and the pressure. It was written on his forehead.
[30:33] Speaker 1: And he hit some of the worst shots and masters
[30:35] Speaker 1: history and also some of the best, and it was
[30:38] Speaker 1: just this incredible. It was about It was not about golf.
[30:41] Speaker 1: It was not about birds and bogies. It was like
[30:42] Speaker 1: the human condition and that's why it was so riveting,
[30:46] Speaker 1: and that's why it the impact of it. People were
[30:49] Speaker 1: not crying on their couches because he won the career
[30:52] Speaker 1: Grand Slam, like that's cool, that's a nice bit of history.
[30:56] Speaker 1: But it was that he had conquered his demons, and
[30:59] Speaker 1: it was much more latable thing like that victory was
[31:02] Speaker 1: about not giving up on your dreams, about not quitting,
[31:07] Speaker 1: about believing in yourself and that stuff that you and
[31:09] Speaker 1: I and everyone can relate to you no matter what
[31:11] Speaker 1: we do for being and so yeah, that's why people
[31:13] Speaker 1: were so moved by it. It wasn't because of you know,
[31:18] Speaker 1: it was his fifth career major. Okay, that's nice, but
[31:20] Speaker 1: it was the human element that made that master so unforgettable.
[31:26] Speaker 2: Rory's obviously thought about his place in history. You write
[31:29] Speaker 2: about it final chapter, Where is he all time?
[31:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I lay this all in the last
[31:35] Speaker 1: chapter of the book. I mean, he's already clearly one
[31:38] Speaker 1: of the dozen greatest players of all time. And even
[31:41] Speaker 1: there's there's three legends in front of him with six majors,
[31:44] Speaker 1: and Rory has five. It's Faldo, it's Mickelson, it's Lee Trevino.
[31:49] Speaker 1: But in my mind, he's already surpassed them because of
[31:51] Speaker 1: the scale of what he's done. You know, Phil never
[31:54] Speaker 1: got to number one, he never won a money title.
[31:57] Speaker 1: Rory's won three money titles in the US and happened
[32:00] Speaker 1: in Europe. He's spent you know, many many weeks at
[32:03] Speaker 1: number one. His global impact, he's won everywhere. I mean,
[32:08] Speaker 1: he's the greatest global golfer since Gary Player. And it's
[32:11] Speaker 1: in a much different media era like Rory's impact is
[32:14] Speaker 1: far beyond Nick Faldo, the only one four times in
[32:17] Speaker 1: the US. Now three of them are masters, but you
[32:20] Speaker 1: know he and so he's in very rarefied air. And
[32:25] Speaker 1: there's a cute bit because I asked people that, and
[32:27] Speaker 1: I asked Padrick Herrington, who's Roy's friend and mentor, and
[32:30] Speaker 1: went to it and he said, oh, I know the
[32:32] Speaker 1: answer because on Rory's wedding night, after he had a
[32:34] Speaker 1: bunch of wine, I asked him what he was chasing,
[32:37] Speaker 1: and Rory said, you know, the number he's always had
[32:39] Speaker 1: in his head is nine major championships. And there's a
[32:42] Speaker 1: strange power when you speak that into existence. And by
[32:46] Speaker 1: that metric, he's barely halfway there. And if Rory gets
[32:49] Speaker 1: to nine, which I think is very doable given his longevity,
[32:53] Speaker 1: he's one of the five greatest golfers of all time,
[32:55] Speaker 1: there's zero doubt. And so you know he's he's a
[32:59] Speaker 1: sending up you know, Mount Nicholas to this this this
[33:03] Speaker 1: role as one of the all time greats, and he's
[33:05] Speaker 1: most of the way there. But it's tantalizing to think
[33:08] Speaker 1: about because you know Rory's longevity, He's been in the
[33:12] Speaker 1: top twenty of the world ranking for over eight hundred
[33:15] Speaker 1: and fifty weeks, like it's unheard of. You know, Phil
[33:19] Speaker 1: was the gold standard. He was in the front rings
[33:21] Speaker 1: of the game for thirty years. But Rory's basically two
[33:24] Speaker 1: thirds of the way there and he's not slowing down.
[33:28] Speaker 1: He takes great care of his body. He's got one
[33:30] Speaker 1: of those long swings that kind of hold up like
[33:33] Speaker 1: a Phil, like a Sam Snead. And you know, it
[33:38] Speaker 1: was a big deal when he won the Irish Open,
[33:39] Speaker 1: because he'd had that summertime swoon and that the Irish
[33:44] Speaker 1: Open last at the end of the summer kind of
[33:46] Speaker 1: rekindled Rory's joy in his passion. And I thought his
[33:49] Speaker 1: comments were so important because after he won, he didn't say,
[33:52] Speaker 1: this means so much to me and this is so
[33:54] Speaker 1: important to my career. He said, It's just it's so
[33:57] Speaker 1: gratifying to win this for all these fans and to
[34:00] Speaker 1: give them what they wanted. And I think he knows
[34:03] Speaker 1: now that he's playing for something bigger than himself, like
[34:07] Speaker 1: he carries the hopes and the dreams of many golf
[34:12] Speaker 1: fans and as he's become their Tiger, and even these
[34:16] Speaker 1: young players now they grew up idolizing Rory and he
[34:19] Speaker 1: feels the weight of that and he doesn't want to
[34:21] Speaker 1: let people down. He wants to keep going and he
[34:23] Speaker 1: wants to keep thrilling them. He's a bit of a
[34:25] Speaker 1: ham and a show off. He wants to hit the
[34:28] Speaker 1: great shot and that's what he cares about now. I
[34:30] Speaker 1: think when if you're chasing this larger purpose, like he
[34:34] Speaker 1: wants to inspire kids on the Irish Island, I think
[34:37] Speaker 1: that helps you get up in practice. When he doesn't.
[34:40] Speaker 1: He wouldn't they need the motivation. He has nothing left
[34:42] Speaker 1: to prove. He has the money, he has all of it.
[34:43] Speaker 1: But this sense that he was born with this gift
[34:47] Speaker 1: and he was put on this earth to thrill the
[34:49] Speaker 1: rest of us, I think that propels him forward. And
[34:51] Speaker 1: I really think that a lot of Rory's best golf
[34:53] Speaker 1: is in front of him. And it's fun to think
[34:55] Speaker 1: about that.
[34:56] Speaker 2: When you're and often when people cover golf, they're in
[34:58] Speaker 2: the tent because you have to see the entire tournament.
[35:01] Speaker 2: But the rare times that you've got the opportunity to
[35:05] Speaker 2: walk alongside him by a gallery, be around him by
[35:08] Speaker 2: a gallery, what do people say? What do they yell
[35:11] Speaker 2: at Rory.
[35:11] Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is just there's a the
[35:16] Speaker 1: experience when Rory hits driver. You can feel it around fans.
[35:20] Speaker 1: You know, it starts, it starts with awe and it
[35:23] Speaker 1: turns to laughter once the ball propelled and it's like
[35:26] Speaker 1: it's at its apex. People laugh because it's so impossible.
[35:29] Speaker 1: The guy's five foot eight inches tall. He weighs maybe
[35:32] Speaker 1: you know, a buck sixty five, and he's carrying it
[35:35] Speaker 1: three point fifty. It's just superhuman what he does to
[35:38] Speaker 1: a golf ball. I mean, Dustin Johnson is six'. Four
[35:41] Speaker 1: phil AND vj were six, three Like Ernie els was six.
[35:44] Speaker 1: Four like these guys had these imposing physical. Presences you,
[35:49] Speaker 1: know Even tiger with all the, muscles and he was
[35:51] Speaker 1: shaped like A martini. Glass like you know What rory can.
[35:55] Speaker 1: DO i love that. LAUGHTER i love to hear it
[35:57] Speaker 1: BECAUSE i know it's. Coming i've been seeing it now
[35:59] Speaker 1: for almost twenty, years and it's just. Disbelief and that's
[36:04] Speaker 1: part of his superhuman, quality because he's not this, hulk
[36:09] Speaker 1: and SO i always look for the. Laughter but, also you,
[36:15] Speaker 1: know there's a common touch To rory when people shout, Out, Hey,
[36:17] Speaker 1: RORY i love. You like he'll give him a little,
[36:19] Speaker 1: wink he'll give him a nod like He Arnold palmer
[36:22] Speaker 1: was really impactful On. Rory and you Know arnie was
[36:25] Speaker 1: the king of eye contact and that's he made people feel,
[36:28] Speaker 1: special you. Know And tiger had that thousand yards stare he.
[36:33] Speaker 1: Was it was like he was performing on stage. Alone
[36:37] Speaker 1: he didn't need the. Gallery he didn't care about the.
[36:39] Speaker 1: Gallery he didn't want to he didn't want to acknowledge the.
[36:41] Speaker 1: Gallery rory is Like, arnie like he's doing it for the,
[36:45] Speaker 1: gallery and so there is a fun little connection. There
[36:48] Speaker 1: and you know he he's just always so kind of.
[36:53] Speaker 1: People they'll always find a kid in the crowd to
[36:55] Speaker 1: give a golf ball bill when he's walking the next
[36:57] Speaker 1: teh pat him on the. Head it's just his little
[36:59] Speaker 1: gesture is that take a mill a, second but like
[37:02] Speaker 1: it means so much to the, kid to all the
[37:05] Speaker 1: adults around. Them and he just has a common. Touch you.
[37:08] Speaker 1: Know it's if you go To ireland to play golf
[37:12] Speaker 1: or just just as a. Tourist you, know it's a
[37:14] Speaker 1: very warm culture and he just carries out with him
[37:18] Speaker 1: and so, yeah it's fun to be In rory's gallery
[37:21] Speaker 1: because there's more of a sentence of. Joy you Know
[37:25] Speaker 1: tiger was. REVERED i would Say rory's, beloved and it's
[37:27] Speaker 1: a different.
[37:28] Speaker 2: Feeling great, Stuff, Alan thank.
[37:30] Speaker 1: YOU i know you're.
[37:31] Speaker 2: Busy this was great for, me AND i hope it
[37:34] Speaker 2: was as great to the.
[37:34] Speaker 1: Listeners think, WELL i always have time for you calling.
[37:36] Speaker 1: UP i appreciate you things for the, platform And i'm
[37:39] Speaker 1: glad you enjoyed the. Book and you, know my MoMA
[37:42] Speaker 1: always have to come in and talk to you anytime
[37:44] Speaker 1: you need.
[37:44] Speaker 2: Me shoot your shot get paid double only on Hard Rock.
[37:52] Speaker 3: Bet Hard Rock bet Is florida's only legal way to
[37:55] Speaker 3: bet THE nba, teams, players points and.
[37:58] Speaker 1: More he's gone.
[38:00] Speaker 3: And when you sign up for Hard Rock, bet your
[38:01] Speaker 3: bets paid double. Winnings don't just count a, basket count it.
[38:04] Speaker 2: Twice he's on fire.
[38:06] Speaker 3: Now, yes new customers get paid double on your first ten.
[38:08] Speaker 3: Bets try Hard Rock bet. Today max bet of fifty
[38:11] Speaker 3: dollars per bet offered by The Seminal tribe Of florida
[38:13] Speaker 3: must be twenty one plus and physically present In florida
[38:15] Speaker 3: to the. Wager terms and conditions. Apply if you are
[38:17] Speaker 3: someone you know has a gambling, problem please call one
[38:18] Speaker 3: Eight threy.
[38:18] Speaker 1: Three playwise

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