# Sixers Upset Celtics, LeBron Finds A Way To Win, Wolves Are Underrated, Nuggets Need To Re-Tool

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 3 May 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/2b8bc08d-0e25-4ff6-b25b-b43f0181ea5d/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the NBA playoffs. They start with the Celtics being upset by the 76ers and they discuss Boston’s dependence on their “system”, why that system fell apart when Jayson Tatum can’t play, and why Joel Embiid created massive problems for the Celtics defensively (3:00). They also preview the upcoming series between the Knicks and Sixers (15:30). They move to the western conference and Colin argues the Lakers win over the Rockets put the exclamation point on the argument that LeBron is better than Kevin Durant, and the series showed the gap between the two is bigger than ever (24:45). They pivot to the Timberwolves knocking off the Nuggets, and they debate whether we’ve been underrating the Wolves team & organization for years (35:30), and whether a young & inexperienced Spurs team can be trusted in the postseason (39:30). Colin argues the Nuggets need to shake things up and make some major moves in order to get over the hump and Jason suggests they look into acquiring CJ McCollum in order to move off Jamal Murray and finding an athletic forward to fill the role a younger Aaron Gordon filled (43:30). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

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[1:23] Speaker 2: All right, So there were some concerns about Round one.
[1:27] Speaker 2: I think I voiced them. I'm like, I don't love
[1:29] Speaker 2: seven game series, but it ended up giving us crazy,
[1:32] Speaker 2: weird left and right turns. I mean, Pistons Magic may
[1:38] Speaker 2: not be the most fascinating series, but probably the right
[1:41] Speaker 2: team is advancing. Detroit looks like they're gonna as we
[1:44] Speaker 2: do this, they're going to peel off a win and
[1:46] Speaker 2: move on. I want to start with the Celtics because
[1:48] Speaker 2: I said before the playoffs ok C Spurs Celtics feel
[1:53] Speaker 2: like the championship teams to meet. But I said last week,
[1:56] Speaker 2: and I want your take on this, I said, the
[1:59] Speaker 2: Celtics from more formula than fantastic. If you look at
[2:02] Speaker 2: the Sixers, they have fantastic talent. You know, Embiid's gonna
[2:06] Speaker 2: be a Hall of Famer, Max He's a big time player.
[2:08] Speaker 2: Edgecomb's suddenly dynamic. Paul George played like Paul George four
[2:12] Speaker 2: years ago when he was arguably the best two way
[2:15] Speaker 2: player in the league. Now OG's probably and they'll square off.
[2:18] Speaker 2: OG's one of the top two way players. But they
[2:20] Speaker 2: have fantastic players. The Celtics have is more formula, which is,
[2:26] Speaker 2: when we hit our threes, we win, and when we don't,
[2:28] Speaker 2: we lose. And in the four losses they shot twenty
[2:30] Speaker 2: nine percent from three or less and in their three
[2:33] Speaker 2: wins they thought shot thirty six percent on threes or more.
[2:36] Speaker 2: It's a formula, and when Tatum doesn't play, that discombobulates
[2:41] Speaker 2: the formula against a really good team. And so as
[2:44] Speaker 2: I watched Game seven, I mean a little five minutes in,
[2:47] Speaker 2: I'm like, they're not fast enough defensively, like Philadelphia is
[2:50] Speaker 2: just two dynamic and two quick sixers. Wore down a
[2:53] Speaker 2: little at the end. But how much of Boston do
[2:56] Speaker 2: you agree with? The premise, which is not every championship
[3:00] Speaker 2: team is great. They have a formula starting with a
[3:02] Speaker 2: brilliant GM down and when the formula this year they
[3:07] Speaker 2: exchange four starters, Tatum's hurt the formulas just they don't
[3:12] Speaker 2: have enough. We think of Boston as loaded athletically. Philadelphia's
[3:17] Speaker 2: got four different guys who can score the ball, all
[3:20] Speaker 2: elite either athletes and beings. Unstoppable when he's healthy, and
[3:24] Speaker 2: you know when he plays. But I kind of watched Boston.
[3:26] Speaker 2: I thought they're the Eagles. In five years, they've won
[3:30] Speaker 2: a title, they've lost a title, and three head scratching
[3:35] Speaker 2: series and you're like, what the hell are they? And
[3:38] Speaker 2: I go back to They've always been more formula than fantastic.
[3:43] Speaker 3: Yeah, the formula is dependent on circumstances kind of going
[3:48] Speaker 3: a certain way for them to succeed. And what I
[3:51] Speaker 3: mean by that is like, it became abundantly clear to
[3:54] Speaker 3: me that there were two things missing for the Celtics
[3:58] Speaker 3: as the series progressed in Joel and came back. When
[4:01] Speaker 3: you have Joel Embiid enter the equation, he's just such
[4:04] Speaker 3: a bizarre matchup. He's so big and strong. He'll bully
[4:09] Speaker 3: just about, you know, ninety percent of the centers right
[4:12] Speaker 3: off the floor just.
[4:12] Speaker 4: By going to the basket.
[4:14] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:14] Speaker 3: He also represents a great rim protector on the other
[4:17] Speaker 3: end of the floor. And what ends up happening in
[4:20] Speaker 3: the playoffs is like, it's not so much because we
[4:23] Speaker 3: call it. This is two top tier contenders For me
[4:26] Speaker 3: that lost in the first round. Denver and Boston were
[4:28] Speaker 3: teams that I had as top tier contenders, say, and
[4:31] Speaker 3: they're gone now. Of my half of that tier is
[4:33] Speaker 3: gone for me, so like, but what's fascinating is the
[4:37] Speaker 3: NBA playoffs are you have to beat four different types
[4:41] Speaker 3: of teams in successive two week windows, and so it's
[4:45] Speaker 3: as much about versatility as it is about your upside.
[4:49] Speaker 3: And Denver, as we've known for years now, really struggles
[4:52] Speaker 3: against Minnesota. It's like that's the team and them running
[4:56] Speaker 3: into them in the first round. They failed the first
[4:58] Speaker 3: test and it prevented them from even getting a chance
[5:01] Speaker 3: to go up against some of the more advanced tests
[5:03] Speaker 3: later on Boston. Similarly, like, I actually think this was
[5:07] Speaker 3: the worst possible team for them to run into a
[5:09] Speaker 3: healthy Joel Embiid team, because when Joel Ebiid came back
[5:13] Speaker 3: into the series, he rendered their entire defensive starting rotation
[5:17] Speaker 3: at the center position useless. None of them could guard Embiid,
[5:21] Speaker 3: and previous iterations of the Celtics could really space the
[5:25] Speaker 3: floor with Al Horford and so they could pull Embiid
[5:29] Speaker 3: away from the rim. In this series, Embiid was sitting
[5:33] Speaker 3: right there, and so what had worked all season for
[5:35] Speaker 3: the Celtics was like these Jalen brown ISOs in the
[5:38] Speaker 3: middle of the floor. But it turns out he's easier
[5:39] Speaker 3: to guard when Embiid's sitting right behind him at the basket.
[5:43] Speaker 3: So now every Philly player has an easy job. Just
[5:45] Speaker 3: press up into him, play the jumper if he goes
[5:48] Speaker 3: around you, Embiid's waiting right there. And so one of
[5:52] Speaker 3: the most interesting things about this series was, like it's
[5:55] Speaker 3: kind of like Boston's formula ran into a specific kind
[6:01] Speaker 3: of cryptonite in the form of a center that neutralized
[6:05] Speaker 3: their ability to attack the rim, which turned them into
[6:08] Speaker 3: only a three point shooting team. Yeah, and then on
[6:11] Speaker 3: the and then on the other end of the floor,
[6:13] Speaker 3: they they just literally couldn't guard the guy, like from
[6:16] Speaker 3: from the from the second half of Game five, he
[6:18] Speaker 3: just was completely unguardable, and Boston had no answers for him.
[6:21] Speaker 3: And it's something to keep in mind because like it's
[6:23] Speaker 3: the same thing with Detroit and Orlando, Like Detroit just
[6:26] Speaker 3: ran into a team that they couldn't bully in Orlando
[6:29] Speaker 3: and so all of a sudden, they're fighting for their
[6:31] Speaker 3: life all series long. Next round, they might be able
[6:34] Speaker 3: to bully at Cleveland, they might be able to throw
[6:37] Speaker 3: around James Harden and Donovan Mitchell and throw around Jared
[6:41] Speaker 3: Allen and Evan Mobley, like it's so fascinating colin the
[6:43] Speaker 3: way that like a matchup can just knock you out
[6:45] Speaker 3: in an early round.
[6:47] Speaker 2: Well and and and and you know, like sexer fans
[6:49] Speaker 2: are like, you didn't believe in embiid and it's like, no,
[6:52] Speaker 2: no's he's a bit of a tease. So three years
[6:54] Speaker 2: ago he's the MVP, and then he averages thirty three
[6:57] Speaker 2: games a season the next week. It's not that we
[6:58] Speaker 2: don't think he's talented, but he you know, his early
[7:02] Speaker 2: comp was Shack. That was the early comp on him.
[7:05] Speaker 2: So like everybody knew he was great, but he, you know,
[7:07] Speaker 2: Shack struggled with weight and then his feet, and then
[7:09] Speaker 2: his desire and then his focus, and he just struggles
[7:12] Speaker 2: with health. And so it's not like people, I mean,
[7:14] Speaker 2: it's not like when you washed the Sixers. Don't I
[7:17] Speaker 2: don't respect their talent, of course you do. I mean
[7:20] Speaker 2: when Paul George and mbat are both healthy playing like that, Okay,
[7:24] Speaker 2: I mean Paul George, You're like, there's an argument five
[7:28] Speaker 2: years ago Paul was the best two way player in
[7:29] Speaker 2: the league, right, And so like og now for the
[7:33] Speaker 2: Knicks is in that space where he's just a guy
[7:36] Speaker 2: that can Every coach in the league on the air
[7:39] Speaker 2: off will tell you. You know, anybody in the NBA that
[7:41] Speaker 2: will say it. You know, OG's of just he's much
[7:45] Speaker 2: Bridges may get some pump, Oh gez the superior player.
[7:48] Speaker 2: He's an unbelievable talent. And so I think Philadelphia is
[7:52] Speaker 2: just a it's just kind of a fascinating team because
[7:55] Speaker 2: when healthy, they're really special. I mean, the very very
[7:59] Speaker 2: few teams in the league where you could say they
[8:02] Speaker 2: have four separate guys that can score the ball and
[8:04] Speaker 2: don't necessarily need a scream, like they can just get
[8:07] Speaker 2: the ball. That's rare. I mean, there are how many
[8:09] Speaker 2: guys in the league have that sixteen twenty Like most
[8:13] Speaker 2: guys need a screen, a pick and roll, most guys
[8:15] Speaker 2: need assistance. So I mean it's it's you know that weird.
[8:20] Speaker 2: I thought that was the Boston starting lineup never happened
[8:23] Speaker 2: in playoff history. Three of the guys in their starting
[8:25] Speaker 2: lineup didn't score a point. So it's like you're going
[8:28] Speaker 2: up against Embiid and Maxi and you've got guys that
[8:33] Speaker 2: haven't started, they don't have playoff experience. It's like, what
[8:36] Speaker 2: are you doing? I mean that was I think you
[8:38] Speaker 2: called it. It was he overthought Missoula overthought the room.
[8:42] Speaker 2: And then, by the way, then you're playing from behind
[8:44] Speaker 2: forming it's into the game you're chasing, which you know,
[8:47] Speaker 2: you're expanding so much energy. So I just thought Boston's
[8:51] Speaker 2: and they are the Philadelphia Eagles. It's title close to
[8:54] Speaker 2: a title or weird way to end the season. It's
[8:56] Speaker 2: an odd the whole, you know. Maybe, I mean, I
[9:01] Speaker 2: did you agree with not playing Tatum? I mean hobbled
[9:04] Speaker 2: in Game six at the end?
[9:06] Speaker 4: Yes, And here's why.
[9:07] Speaker 3: Well, first of all, the funniest thing about the Philly
[9:10] Speaker 3: thing is, like I swear all of us have covered
[9:12] Speaker 3: our bases on this, Like what's the conversation with the
[9:14] Speaker 3: Sixers before every season? It's like, well, if Joel Embiid
[9:19] Speaker 3: is healthy, if Paul George is healthy, and like that's
[9:22] Speaker 3: the thing. They both are and they're both playing great.
[9:25] Speaker 3: So just about like ninety percent of the data we
[9:28] Speaker 3: got from this team in the regular season is useless.
[9:30] Speaker 3: Like I was prepping for the Knick series, Paul George
[9:32] Speaker 3: was awful in the three games he played against the
[9:34] Speaker 3: Knicks this year, So like, like what do you make
[9:36] Speaker 3: of that when the dude's been like prime Paul George
[9:39] Speaker 3: over the last week, Like it's a completely different kind
[9:41] Speaker 3: of team when all these guys are healthy and they
[9:44] Speaker 3: have a speed at the guard position now with VJ.
[9:46] Speaker 3: Edgecombe alongside MAXI, that makes them super, super dynamic and
[9:49] Speaker 3: that will be interesting for a Knick series. But on
[9:52] Speaker 3: the Celtics front, yeah, like it's it's the thing that
[9:55] Speaker 3: I thought was a mistake specifically with Missoula that I
[9:58] Speaker 3: think he'll regret. Is like your best chance to win
[10:01] Speaker 3: a game like that is to make Philly nervous and
[10:04] Speaker 3: like to have them face either an early deficit or
[10:07] Speaker 3: an early run where all of a sudden they're like
[10:10] Speaker 3: feeling the pressure of a game seven. And that helps
[10:13] Speaker 3: your young players too, Like if Baylor Shrenman's shooting a
[10:16] Speaker 3: wide open three in their tide or up by three
[10:19] Speaker 3: or four, it feels like an easier, lower pressure shot
[10:22] Speaker 3: than if you're down seven. And if we miss this shot,
[10:25] Speaker 3: it's like the air gets sucked out of the arena.
[10:27] Speaker 3: And Colin like, there was a play early in the game,
[10:29] Speaker 3: I'm sure you remember it where Jalen Brown drove left
[10:33] Speaker 3: and he went to throw a pass across his body
[10:36] Speaker 3: to the right side. There was nobody there and it
[10:38] Speaker 3: just went right to the Celtics bench. And it was
[10:41] Speaker 3: because all the Celtics players were lined up on the
[10:43] Speaker 3: left side of the floor. And it's because that lineup
[10:46] Speaker 3: has quite literally not played ever before, so they've never
[10:50] Speaker 3: kind of figured out where to stand with each other.
[10:53] Speaker 3: They're spacing like how to kind of be a unit.
[10:56] Speaker 3: And so you come out and you botch these early
[10:59] Speaker 3: offens possessions, and Joel Embiid walks into some of the
[11:02] Speaker 3: easiest shots he got all series to start the game.
[11:05] Speaker 3: So now they're up eleven to four, and now Philly
[11:07] Speaker 3: is relaxed and all the pressure is on Boston. So
[11:10] Speaker 3: I just thought that was a tactical mistake on Joe
[11:13] Speaker 3: Mizzula's part. The thing with Tatum, and this is where
[11:16] Speaker 3: I think they made the right decision. Two things. One,
[11:19] Speaker 3: Philly looked like the better team when Joel Embiid was healthy,
[11:23] Speaker 3: even when Tatum was on the floor. It had flipped
[11:26] Speaker 3: the dynamics so dramatically on both ends because Boston didn't
[11:30] Speaker 3: have an avenue with which to pull em beat away
[11:32] Speaker 3: from the rim. And then on the other end of
[11:34] Speaker 3: the floor. They couldn't guard Himbai even with a healthy Tatum.
[11:37] Speaker 3: So I think there was a pretty decent chance that
[11:40] Speaker 3: Philly wins that game even if Tatum plays. So what
[11:43] Speaker 3: I think they did that was smart is they looked
[11:45] Speaker 3: at the situation and they went this. East Cleveland doesn't
[11:49] Speaker 3: look that good. Philly miraculously is healthy now, but who
[11:53] Speaker 3: knows what will happen next year. Orlando is a mess,
[11:56] Speaker 3: Detroit looks like they're multiple moves away. I think Rad
[12:00] Speaker 3: Stevens has got to be looking at this like, great season,
[12:03] Speaker 3: we can win this thing next year if we make
[12:06] Speaker 3: a couple of quality tweaks on the margins. And I
[12:09] Speaker 3: think the two main things they need is to your
[12:11] Speaker 3: point about being dynamic, I think they need a guard
[12:14] Speaker 3: who can beat people off the dribble, like a fast guard.
[12:18] Speaker 3: They do not have that. I think that's something they need.
[12:20] Speaker 3: And then two, they need best player available in that
[12:23] Speaker 3: like center slash, big power forward, like big front court
[12:27] Speaker 3: player type.
[12:28] Speaker 2: Of you make a deal for Aaron Gordon to the Nuggets.
[12:31] Speaker 3: I think, yeah. I think I've been canvassing around trying
[12:34] Speaker 3: to find a couple of different things that make sense
[12:36] Speaker 3: and I think. I think the one that I've looked
[12:39] Speaker 3: at is that Derek White for Aaron Gordon move where
[12:44] Speaker 3: if I'm Denver, I'm probably asking for like Hugo Gonzales
[12:47] Speaker 3: as well. So if I'm Denver, I'm getting Derek White,
[12:50] Speaker 3: an awesome defensive guard who can really shoot, and I'm
[12:52] Speaker 3: getting an athlete at the forward position, which is what
[12:55] Speaker 3: they so desperately need. And then and if I'm and
[12:58] Speaker 3: then if I'm Boss, what I'm getting back is I
[13:02] Speaker 3: have the depth if I'm Boston to be like Aaron
[13:05] Speaker 3: play when you play when you feel great, right Beyondrake
[13:09] Speaker 3: Guidala for us, like, oh you feel great tonight, you're playing,
[13:12] Speaker 3: you have any soreness, you sit out because because they
[13:15] Speaker 3: have Jordan Walsh and they have Bayler Shireman, and they
[13:17] Speaker 3: have Tatum back next year, they don't need him to
[13:20] Speaker 3: play big minutes. But then it's like big playoff game. Yep,
[13:24] Speaker 3: Gordon Tatum Brown next to each other, this massive, super
[13:27] Speaker 3: versaal frontline that can win you a playoff series.
[13:30] Speaker 2: Also, he's played in the West, which is deeper, more athletic,
[13:33] Speaker 2: more youthful, So he goes from the West playing in
[13:36] Speaker 2: the East. I think the Denver Is shopping Gordon. I mean,
[13:39] Speaker 2: I think he would fit in a lot of places.
[13:41] Speaker 2: Phoenix Lakers have been mentioned, but I think that's a
[13:45] Speaker 2: move I would make if I was the Celtics. I
[13:47] Speaker 2: just feel like experience toughness, he'd work in their culture.
[13:52] Speaker 2: You know, if you think of the New York if
[13:54] Speaker 2: the Knicks Philly series is kind of fascinating. So you have,
[13:58] Speaker 2: first of all, you have Cat and Embiid who absolutely
[14:02] Speaker 2: and they're really really gifted offensive players. I mean the
[14:06] Speaker 2: Knicks in the last several games in the series, he
[14:08] Speaker 2: was a point center. I mean, say what you want
[14:12] Speaker 2: about Cavsy and Cat played by five times in person.
[14:14] Speaker 2: I had this weird thing where for years I would
[14:17] Speaker 2: go to a Laker or a Clipper game and it
[14:18] Speaker 2: was ohas the te Wolves. So I saw Wiggans, Cat,
[14:21] Speaker 2: Cat's an incredible offensive player, and Beads obviously better, and
[14:25] Speaker 2: Beads the better defensive player. And then you go to
[14:27] Speaker 2: the wing and it's Og who again is in a
[14:29] Speaker 2: short list of two way players in the league, Paul George, Healthy,
[14:34] Speaker 2: Mikhale Bridges. That's probably an edge to the Knicks, but
[14:37] Speaker 2: then all Edgecombe and Maxie you get really fast, dynamic
[14:42] Speaker 2: young guys. Brunson, you know, is not much of a defender. See,
[14:47] Speaker 2: I feel like it's the series. I think the Knicks
[14:50] Speaker 2: are a slight favorite. I'm like very and I think
[14:53] Speaker 2: it's a coin flip. If you told me and beating
[14:56] Speaker 2: Paul George were healthy, I'd probably take philadelp narrowly. A
[15:02] Speaker 2: lot of it is because I think they can defend
[15:03] Speaker 2: the rim a little better, although Mitchell Robbinson is a
[15:06] Speaker 2: very good rim defender for the Knicks. So I mean,
[15:09] Speaker 2: I think it's a neither one has great bench scoring.
[15:12] Speaker 2: So it's like it's your it's your starting fives. I mean,
[15:15] Speaker 2: do you have a Do you have a heavy lean
[15:16] Speaker 2: in that series?
[15:17] Speaker 4: No, heavy, lian I.
[15:18] Speaker 3: So I just did all my prep for it today
[15:20] Speaker 3: and I and I recorded my series preview a little
[15:22] Speaker 3: over an hour ago, and I just like you coin
[15:26] Speaker 3: flipped for me, I lean slightly mixed because of like
[15:29] Speaker 3: literally just small things like home court advantage. I think
[15:31] Speaker 3: they're a tiny bit deeper and there's a couple more
[15:35] Speaker 3: ways that they can kind of evolve their team to
[15:39] Speaker 3: fit the situation, whereas Philly it's like they're five guys
[15:43] Speaker 3: or their five guys. That's who they're going down with.
[15:44] Speaker 3: It's Ubra, it's Paul George, it's Max Heed's VJ, it's Embiid.
[15:47] Speaker 3: But there's so many interesting dynamics here because Embiid and
[15:50] Speaker 3: Cat hate each other and they have history and Embiid
[15:54] Speaker 3: wants to dominate Cat. The last they the last time
[15:56] Speaker 3: they played each other in the regular season, they had
[15:59] Speaker 3: a game in Philly or in New York excuse me
[16:02] Speaker 3: where U or No, it wasn't Philly, but it doesn't matter.
[16:05] Speaker 3: Cat literally fouled out in sixteen minutes Colin like Embiid.
[16:10] Speaker 3: Embiid got like four of the fouls on it like
[16:13] Speaker 3: like and got him off the floor.
[16:15] Speaker 4: But then the Knicks ended up.
[16:16] Speaker 3: But to the point about being kind of able to evolve,
[16:20] Speaker 3: the Knicks won that game going small with og and
[16:22] Speaker 3: Obi guarding Embiid and spacing him out, and Embiid look
[16:25] Speaker 3: lost on defense down the stretch of that game as
[16:27] Speaker 3: he was trying to cover in space against all of
[16:29] Speaker 3: that speed that the Knicks had. But then, like Tyrese,
[16:32] Speaker 3: Maxey has been amazing in this matchup because nobody on
[16:36] Speaker 3: the Knicks is fast enough. Now him to me, to me,
[16:39] Speaker 3: the story of the series will be can Joel Embiid
[16:44] Speaker 3: dominate Kat so much that floor Dad he has to
[16:49] Speaker 3: put Robinson on the floor, because if he had to,
[16:52] Speaker 3: if he has to put Robinson on the floor, that
[16:55] Speaker 3: creates the identical dynamic that just got Boston beat, which
[16:59] Speaker 3: is and he can sit his ass under the rim
[17:02] Speaker 3: and then he can control the game defensively if they
[17:06] Speaker 3: are able to play cat at the five A lot,
[17:09] Speaker 3: and what that will involve is double teaming most likely.
[17:12] Speaker 3: But if they're able to play cat at the five
[17:14] Speaker 3: A lot, I think they'll just chew up Embiid in
[17:17] Speaker 3: open space. And so that really is the chess match
[17:19] Speaker 3: of the series is how much can Embid force Mike
[17:23] Speaker 3: Brown to play Mitchell Robinson. And I think that'll be
[17:25] Speaker 3: the thing we're watching all series long, is just how
[17:27] Speaker 3: well they can defend with Mitchell Robinson off the four
[17:29] Speaker 3: against Embiid. It's gonna be a great one that feels
[17:32] Speaker 3: like a vintage Eastern Conference playoff battle.
[17:35] Speaker 2: I mean it really, it's so funny because I came
[17:37] Speaker 2: in thinking, man, some of these some of these matchups,
[17:41] Speaker 2: I don't know, you could not have done better than
[17:43] Speaker 2: Nicks Sixers. That's a really and you could say Celtics,
[17:48] Speaker 2: but a few years ago the Celtics were in the finals,
[17:50] Speaker 2: won the title. The ratings weren't good New York's guaranteed numbers,
[17:54] Speaker 2: and there is something about New York and Philly and
[17:56] Speaker 2: their proximity. And also Philadelphia has lost these kind of series.
[18:00] Speaker 2: Philadelphia can't. I mean, they've really, if you're honest about
[18:03] Speaker 2: the Sixers, they've underachieved this, you know, I mean, we
[18:06] Speaker 2: have a great GM. They've had to run through coaches.
[18:08] Speaker 2: There was the Simmons, there was the Harden. They've had
[18:10] Speaker 2: all these experiments and it's like draft the tallest guy
[18:13] Speaker 2: for eight years. Trust the process. You're like, and this
[18:16] Speaker 2: is the team. We're all like, well, nobody's healthy, let's
[18:19] Speaker 2: forget about it. And then you look at your like, well,
[18:20] Speaker 2: this is actually the most talented team and the component.
[18:23] Speaker 3: It beats the best player in the conference, and beats
[18:25] Speaker 3: the best player in the conference like by like comfortably
[18:28] Speaker 3: when he's healthy. Now like like I like Brunson, but
[18:31] Speaker 3: he doesn't have the upside that embat has, and neither
[18:33] Speaker 3: does Donovan Mitchell. Neither does maybe Kay Cunningham like and
[18:37] Speaker 3: beat being healthy is like the world's biggest wrench being thrown.
[18:41] Speaker 3: This whole damn thing. It's crazy.
[18:45] Speaker 2: Today's show brought to you by our friends are presenting
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[20:19] Speaker 2: All right, we go to the West. I mean Lakers, okay.
[20:21] Speaker 2: See JJ Reddick said it. He said, like this is
[20:24] Speaker 2: one of the great defenses ever. He goes. They're top
[20:26] Speaker 2: five and everything, and they don't foul. He said, you know,
[20:29] Speaker 2: they're so fast, They're so quick. It's a rough matchup. Again.
[20:33] Speaker 2: Austin Reeves now has a few extra days, you know,
[20:37] Speaker 2: to get in shape and kind of get in rhythm,
[20:40] Speaker 2: cross your fingers. I mean, if Luca played, it would
[20:43] Speaker 2: be the classic offensive team versus defensive team. I think
[20:45] Speaker 2: it would be a really fun matchup. I don't know
[20:47] Speaker 2: how good it is. Then Minnesota San Antonio. There's also
[20:53] Speaker 2: you know, let's just go back to Lebron. It was
[20:57] Speaker 2: interesting watching that series. And there was a time years ago,
[21:02] Speaker 2: and I think it was when Kad was with the
[21:03] Speaker 2: Warriors and there was this narrative because he was winning championships,
[21:07] Speaker 2: Katie's better than Lebron. And I always think the truth
[21:11] Speaker 2: comes out over the course of time and any profession,
[21:14] Speaker 2: you know, the truth comes out, and I think the
[21:17] Speaker 2: Houston Lakers series was the definitive exclamation point that Lebron's
[21:22] Speaker 2: not only better, but the gap is much bigger than
[21:24] Speaker 2: people realize. Is that, you know, Ryan on my show,
[21:30] Speaker 2: my producer, had a funny line. He said, KD is
[21:32] Speaker 2: like buying a boat. You know, the first day habit
[21:36] Speaker 2: and the first day you sell it. Of the two
[21:38] Speaker 2: happiest days, like it comes in. You know, it's amazing.
[21:41] Speaker 2: You do have great times, but there's maintenance. You're left disappointed.
[21:45] Speaker 2: Then you get rid of it and you're like, yeah,
[21:46] Speaker 2: that was a lot. It really didn't. You know, it
[21:49] Speaker 2: was fun a couple of times a year. And it's
[21:51] Speaker 2: like the gap between the two is that Lebron's ability,
[21:57] Speaker 2: and it's really something. There's never been anything like it.
[21:59] Speaker 2: Magic was kind of close, but not nearly his athletic
[22:02] Speaker 2: his ability. Lebron is so smart and his ability to
[22:05] Speaker 2: just squeeze the juice out of every part of the game.
[22:10] Speaker 2: I just I watched that series and it was like,
[22:13] Speaker 2: you guys, just you count out Lebron. I'm not surprised,
[22:18] Speaker 2: you know. I say to people all the time. When
[22:20] Speaker 2: Brady retired from Tampa, he was still a top three quarterback.
[22:24] Speaker 2: He'd go back today and be top six. He's in
[22:26] Speaker 2: as good as shape. Now, It's like Lebron's gonna retire
[22:30] Speaker 2: because he gets tired of the travel, he gets tired
[22:32] Speaker 2: of practice. It's like, who are we kidding here? I mean,
[22:36] Speaker 2: six minutes to go in these games you need him
[22:38] Speaker 2: on the floor. I mean, just an I mean I
[22:41] Speaker 2: just watched that series and I'm like, boy, the gat
[22:43] Speaker 2: with KD and Lebron. For anybody that was still clinging
[22:47] Speaker 2: to that like stop. I mean, that was one of
[22:50] Speaker 2: my takeaways the entire series.
[22:53] Speaker 3: It's the versatility. It's the way that he can impact
[22:55] Speaker 3: winning in so many different ways, where in each specific
[23:00] Speaker 3: circumstance that the Lakers have found themselves in this year,
[23:03] Speaker 3: he's found a way to be a positive impact. And
[23:05] Speaker 3: like to your point about him being kind of mentally
[23:08] Speaker 3: fatigued from the NBA grind, like that's the thing is
[23:11] Speaker 3: like you will find these stretches in the regular season
[23:13] Speaker 3: where he looks flat out bad, and like even even
[23:16] Speaker 3: in the playoffs, like in Game four, you could tell
[23:18] Speaker 3: Lebron was like, I don't have it tonight. These young
[23:21] Speaker 3: kids are gonna beat us. And he goes for like
[23:23] Speaker 3: ten points and he just looks like he's lost most
[23:27] Speaker 3: of the night. But in every like pivotal moment of
[23:29] Speaker 3: the series, like between games one and two, when he
[23:33] Speaker 3: was pulling the team away originally clutch time of Game
[23:36] Speaker 3: three when that game was gettable late when all of
[23:38] Speaker 3: a sudden, he's like, all right, we got one bucket,
[23:40] Speaker 3: one stop, We're gonna win this thing. And then Game six,
[23:43] Speaker 3: when everything was hanging, like when all everything was up
[23:47] Speaker 3: up in the air, he had his best game of
[23:49] Speaker 3: the series. I thought he came out in that series
[23:51] Speaker 3: or in game six and like brought like an intensity
[23:54] Speaker 3: that like literally shrunk the Rockets. Like Lebron was like
[23:58] Speaker 3: a force of competitive will on the floor that wilted
[24:02] Speaker 3: the young Rockets team. They looked scared of the moment
[24:05] Speaker 3: as Lebron and like he took like these shots in
[24:08] Speaker 3: that game, Like he had a couple of threes in
[24:10] Speaker 3: the second quarter of that game that were like I'm
[24:13] Speaker 3: gonna sap your guys, of you guys, of your confidence.
[24:16] Speaker 3: Types of threes were like it's a pull up transition three.
[24:18] Speaker 3: It's not even a good shot, but it's like he's
[24:20] Speaker 3: doing it specifically to win the mental battle on the
[24:24] Speaker 3: floor to you know, kind of control things. And he
[24:27] Speaker 3: just posted up NonStop in that series and brought the
[24:30] Speaker 3: physical force when needed. And frankly, Colin, I'm so glad
[24:33] Speaker 3: you called it an exclamation point because it was literally
[24:34] Speaker 3: one of my favorite moments being a fan of his,
[24:36] Speaker 3: one of my favorite moments of his career. It was
[24:38] Speaker 3: just old man Lebron, go get a playoff series, and
[24:41] Speaker 3: it was. It was the thirteenth largest upset in since
[24:44] Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight. By money Line. It was a very
[24:47] Speaker 3: impressive upset.
[24:48] Speaker 2: And I know that Katie didn't play much in this
[24:51] Speaker 2: What do you play one game in the series? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[24:54] Speaker 2: But the difference is if you looked at the net rating,
[24:57] Speaker 2: and this was kind of my point, N Durant, the
[25:00] Speaker 2: Rockets were better when he was off the floor. There
[25:03] Speaker 2: was never a moment that the Lakers were better in
[25:05] Speaker 2: this series when forty one year old Lebron was off
[25:07] Speaker 2: the floor. And that is the secret gift. Where Like
[25:10] Speaker 2: when Brett fav got old, he didn't relate to younger teammates,
[25:13] Speaker 2: Brady got old and the young guys loved him. And
[25:16] Speaker 2: it's like I've said, that's where n Lebron's aged well
[25:19] Speaker 2: as a human and as a basketball player, Like he's current,
[25:23] Speaker 2: Like he's just a very current player, whereas Kd's game,
[25:26] Speaker 2: which is sort of this is my game, I'm gonna
[25:29] Speaker 2: play kind of in a silo. Then there's the Burner
[25:31] Speaker 2: account allegedly, and you saw the gap in the two
[25:35] Speaker 2: whereas there appeared to be the Rockets with KD and
[25:38] Speaker 2: without him, and they were better without him, Like there's
[25:40] Speaker 2: two different teams, and that tells you the disconnect between
[25:45] Speaker 2: an old star and young team teammates. And yet and
[25:49] Speaker 2: you know, Lebron activated this during the series. DeAndre Ayton
[25:53] Speaker 2: was tremendous. I mean DeAndre Eyen and I kept saying
[25:55] Speaker 2: this on FS one. Deandre's always been moody, and when
[25:59] Speaker 2: he feels like he's the third or the fourth offensive option,
[26:02] Speaker 2: he he kind of closes down. Well, you could tell
[26:05] Speaker 2: him this series like Lebron was feeding him the ball.
[26:07] Speaker 2: They were making him feel and that Phoenix Portland the
[26:13] Speaker 2: rep was always the same thing. If he doesn't feel
[26:15] Speaker 2: like he's at least the second option, he can just
[26:18] Speaker 2: quit playing defense. I thought Ayton played spectacularly well. And
[26:21] Speaker 2: now some of that is because Luca didn't play and
[26:23] Speaker 2: he gets more touches, But the ability for Lebron to
[26:26] Speaker 2: squeeze more out of DeAndre Ayton, who has always been
[26:29] Speaker 2: an emotional a little bit of a temperamental you're not
[26:32] Speaker 2: quite sure emotionally what you're getting, I don't think that's unfair.
[26:35] Speaker 2: I think that's fairly well documented, and I thought he
[26:39] Speaker 2: had a tremendous series. So I just that's Lebron's ability
[26:43] Speaker 2: to just there's a psychology to these playoff series and
[26:47] Speaker 2: Lebron just plays his cards very smartly.
[26:50] Speaker 3: You have to breathe confidence into your team. We talked
[26:52] Speaker 3: about this last week. Like half the battle there is
[26:55] Speaker 3: getting your guys to believe they can go in on
[26:58] Speaker 3: the road and win a playoff game like that, even
[27:00] Speaker 3: after they got beat twice. And that's the thing that
[27:03] Speaker 3: has always been lacking with the Kevin Durant piece of
[27:06] Speaker 3: this is like that he's even kind of like disregarded
[27:09] Speaker 3: the leadership role.
[27:10] Speaker 4: He's talked about this in the past.
[27:11] Speaker 3: He'll say things like, oh, like a I lead by example,
[27:14] Speaker 3: or like leadership is kind of this ethereal concept, and
[27:17] Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, it is ethereal in the sense that
[27:19] Speaker 3: it can take many different shapes, but it's the same thing.
[27:23] Speaker 3: It's getting. It's getting a group of guys to believe
[27:26] Speaker 3: in a larger goal and to all be swimming in
[27:29] Speaker 3: the same direction. And that does require involvement. You can't
[27:32] Speaker 3: backseat that sort of thing.
[27:33] Speaker 4: You can't.
[27:34] Speaker 3: And you know, to your point about the difference between
[27:37] Speaker 3: Katie and Lebron, it's like, if you can cultivate a
[27:40] Speaker 3: perfect set of circumstances where like boom, somebody's doing the
[27:43] Speaker 3: leadership stuff for him, someone's doing all the someone's doing
[27:46] Speaker 3: all the ball handling for him, and he can just
[27:49] Speaker 3: function as like a defensive cog and a play finisher
[27:52] Speaker 3: slash scorer on offense. It's like the perfect circumstance for him, which,
[27:55] Speaker 3: by the way, like why I keep thinking Houston is
[27:58] Speaker 3: the best honest team because one of the things with
[28:01] Speaker 3: Shane Goon is Shane Goon, to me is a guy
[28:03] Speaker 3: that I don't think you can win a championship with.
[28:05] Speaker 3: I think, say he even at his even in his
[28:09] Speaker 3: theoretical ceiling, because like, the one guy who was good
[28:12] Speaker 3: enough on offense at that position to be a bad
[28:15] Speaker 3: defender and win the title really was Jokic, right, But
[28:18] Speaker 3: it's he was bigger and he was a transcendently great
[28:21] Speaker 3: offensive player. Shane Goon is smaller, and he has nowhere
[28:25] Speaker 3: near the touch, nowhere near the playmaking talent. So I
[28:27] Speaker 3: don't think his ceiling on offense is nearly high enough.
[28:29] Speaker 3: So what I would do if I was Houston is
[28:32] Speaker 3: I actually think they're better off leaning into the present
[28:35] Speaker 3: than leaning into the future. So I would call up
[28:37] Speaker 3: Milwaukee this summer and I'd be like, here's Shangon, here's
[28:40] Speaker 3: Jabari Smith, here's a first round draft pick or two
[28:43] Speaker 3: whatever it is that they have all over now. I've
[28:45] Speaker 3: got Giannis, I've got kd I've got Fred van Vliek
[28:48] Speaker 3: coming back. I've got a Men Thompson. Even some of
[28:50] Speaker 3: their role players, like you know, Dori Infinney. Smith is
[28:53] Speaker 3: an older guy. You know, you still have some youthful
[28:56] Speaker 3: energy in there. Like we'll see if they can retain
[28:58] Speaker 3: Tara Easton. They still have Reed Shepherd. That's a team
[29:00] Speaker 3: that's like kind of interesting in the West, and I
[29:03] Speaker 3: think they're better off kind of leaning into that. And
[29:05] Speaker 3: then what you have in the future is like, Okay,
[29:07] Speaker 3: it's a two year contending, three year contending window breaks apart.
[29:11] Speaker 3: You still have Amen Thompson, you have some ability to
[29:14] Speaker 3: look towards the future. To me, it's punting on the
[29:17] Speaker 3: specific youthful foundational asset in Shangoon that I don't think
[29:22] Speaker 3: is the guy that's going to carry you to promised lands,
[29:24] Speaker 3: certainly not in the West.
[29:25] Speaker 2: Well, how good would Houston be defensively? And that may
[29:28] Speaker 2: be the way to beat San Antonio and be beat Oka.
[29:32] Speaker 2: See in Minnesota is just defense, you know, people.
[29:34] Speaker 4: And Yannis could be the leader that's right.
[29:37] Speaker 2: Jannis and Amen Thompson would be two of the top
[29:40] Speaker 2: five defenders in the league, and they're intimidating defenders like me.
[29:45] Speaker 2: Is an intimidating physical presence. He gets in you and
[29:48] Speaker 2: Yannis again changes some level of calculus about attacking the basket.
[29:53] Speaker 2: So you know, it's I mean, the one thing that
[29:57] Speaker 2: Spurs Oklahoma City, Minnesota all have in common. This is
[30:00] Speaker 2: kind of the gap the Lakers don't is they can
[30:02] Speaker 2: lock you down, they can really change. Yeah, I mean
[30:06] Speaker 2: that's where the Lakers have to make you know. It's
[30:08] Speaker 2: it's really funny, like I think the Lakers. I think
[30:12] Speaker 2: Aaron Gordon would work for the Lakers. You know, the
[30:14] Speaker 2: player I've said like three times on this podcast that
[30:16] Speaker 2: I think fits perfectly with the Lakers. As Jaden McDaniels.
[30:19] Speaker 4: He said, Oh my god, did you know they drafted him?
[30:22] Speaker 2: Actually, yes, he's literally the perfect I mean he would
[30:25] Speaker 2: literally be He would be their elite wing defender who
[30:29] Speaker 2: has these crazy offensive games where you just look up
[30:31] Speaker 2: and you're and he's one of those guys that you
[30:33] Speaker 2: don't have to you don't have to dial up a
[30:35] Speaker 2: lot of plays for him. He can be an incidental score.
[30:37] Speaker 2: You look it up and he has eighteen and you didn't.
[30:39] Speaker 2: You didn't dial his number up a lot.
[30:41] Speaker 3: There's some corolaris with Og to your point, as like
[30:44] Speaker 3: a role player star more or less.
[30:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to. You don't have to run
[30:48] Speaker 2: that many plays through him. But Og ends up with
[30:50] Speaker 2: twenty four and it's you know a lot of it's
[30:52] Speaker 2: just effort transition, and you look up and he's got
[30:55] Speaker 2: twenty four points. So Minnesota, San Antonio, you know, it's
[30:59] Speaker 2: it's it's really interesting to me that we've just basically annoyeded.
[31:03] Speaker 2: It's a Spurs, it's a Spurs thunder Conference, and maybe
[31:09] Speaker 2: Denver could sneak in, but what Minnesota does and ant
[31:12] Speaker 2: Is reportedly might play in Game one, But Minnesota's this
[31:16] Speaker 2: team get that would if you put them in the East,
[31:19] Speaker 2: they would just fly through people. There's just so much
[31:23] Speaker 2: size and Minnesota quietly and they had another quirky you know,
[31:28] Speaker 2: they had another quirky regular season where you look up
[31:31] Speaker 2: and you're like, what are they? I'm watching Minnesota. The
[31:37] Speaker 2: reality of that team to be able to get these
[31:41] Speaker 2: twenty four point outbursts from players that aren't like offensive players,
[31:47] Speaker 2: I think Minnesota. Every sport has this. You start looking
[31:51] Speaker 2: at the construct of that roster that GM is up
[31:54] Speaker 2: for the Bulls GM job, and it's like, I don't know.
[31:58] Speaker 2: I mean, I look at Minnesota, I'm like, coaching staff
[32:01] Speaker 2: to the bottom of the roster. Have we just undervalued them?
[32:05] Speaker 2: For three years?
[32:06] Speaker 3: It's been super fascinating to watch Tim Conley and the
[32:10] Speaker 3: team that he built in Denver, which was a lot
[32:14] Speaker 3: more athletic than people remember if you remember, because you
[32:16] Speaker 3: had you had KCP, Bruce Brown and obviously Aaron Gordon
[32:23] Speaker 3: at that phase of his career. Michael Michael Porter, Yeah, exactly,
[32:28] Speaker 3: and kind of a belief in size too, like it
[32:30] Speaker 3: was you would six ten, six ten, seven feet at
[32:33] Speaker 3: those three positions. And then he goes to Minnesota and
[32:36] Speaker 3: he constructs a team that literally like ends the Denver
[32:40] Speaker 3: Nuggets current era.
[32:41] Speaker 4: It's really a remarkable by the way, very quickly.
[32:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, Colin, I know that the line is
[32:48] Speaker 3: absurd on this one. The line is almost as crazy
[32:51] Speaker 3: on this one as it is in the in the
[32:53] Speaker 3: Lakers Thunder series. And I think that there's a great
[32:57] Speaker 3: value opportunity on the Minnesota side because I think think
[33:00] Speaker 3: this is going to be a very competitive series. I'm
[33:03] Speaker 3: picking san Antonio, but I think it's close, and there's
[33:05] Speaker 3: a couple of specific things. First of all, Julius Randall.
[33:09] Speaker 3: There have been a couple of guys this year that
[33:11] Speaker 3: have been able to really give Wemby problems in one
[33:14] Speaker 3: on one defense, and Aaron Gordon was one of them.
[33:17] Speaker 3: That was a big part of why Denver when they're healthy,
[33:19] Speaker 3: presented a big problem for san Antonio. But the other
[33:22] Speaker 3: one was Julius Randall. Julius Randall's you need like a
[33:26] Speaker 3: wing is too small, a center is too slow. But
[33:30] Speaker 3: if you've got a big, bully ball, physical forward that
[33:35] Speaker 3: can get up underneath Wemby, he can struggle to get
[33:38] Speaker 3: by him and turn into a really difficult three point
[33:42] Speaker 3: like a long distance jump shooter. And so between them
[33:46] Speaker 3: putting go bet on Steph Castle and being like, go
[33:49] Speaker 3: ahead and shoot threes. We're going to park him by
[33:50] Speaker 3: the rim and Julius Randall up underneath Wemby and Jada
[33:54] Speaker 3: McDaniels and having athletic perimeter dudes that are going to
[33:58] Speaker 3: get up underneath san Antonio's guards, I think they're gonna
[34:01] Speaker 3: be able to guard san Antonio well. Right automatically means
[34:04] Speaker 3: these are close games, and in close games, it's like
[34:07] Speaker 3: hits a step back three in the right time.
[34:09] Speaker 2: You get away and look, look at the experience factor
[34:12] Speaker 2: that Minnesota had. There's a lot of playoffs. Look how
[34:14] Speaker 2: many playoff games these Julius Randall's been in. I mean,
[34:19] Speaker 2: you you're talking about Ant's now been in several big series, Like,
[34:22] Speaker 2: I think that's it. To me, it feels like a
[34:24] Speaker 2: six to seven game series. It really does the experience,
[34:27] Speaker 2: the coaching. I think we just I think we overlook
[34:31] Speaker 2: Minnesota because I think we're so glommed on to the
[34:35] Speaker 2: future with san Antonio and the present with Okac and
[34:38] Speaker 2: the Lakers always get a lot of publicity, and it's like, hey, guys,
[34:41] Speaker 2: Minnesota has been in these Western Conference finals. These guys
[34:45] Speaker 2: all have multiple road playoff wins. I think it's I
[34:48] Speaker 2: think it's gonna be. Yeah, I think it's gonna be
[34:51] Speaker 2: a really good series. I mean, aren't we still asking
[34:53] Speaker 2: the question do you really trust san Antonio? It's one
[34:56] Speaker 2: on one, one oh one, four minutes left. I mean,
[35:00] Speaker 2: do we trust him yet? We know we will eventually
[35:02] Speaker 2: trust him, We trust Okac. I don't know if I trust.
[35:05] Speaker 3: Him again in a close game late, because they played
[35:09] Speaker 3: a bunch of really close games this year. Ant had
[35:11] Speaker 3: a game where he had fifty five and they lost,
[35:14] Speaker 3: but they lost on a couple of clutch shots by
[35:16] Speaker 3: Webbin Yama, a couple of clutch jumpers that he hit.
[35:19] Speaker 3: There was a game that Minnesota won where An hit
[35:21] Speaker 3: the game winner, and it was the same kind of thing.
[35:23] Speaker 3: Julius Randall was really guarding Wemby well, and then Aunt
[35:26] Speaker 3: was able to get Victor on a switch for the
[35:28] Speaker 3: game winner, and he drove right around him and hit
[35:30] Speaker 3: a little floater off the glass. Like, they present real
[35:33] Speaker 3: matchup problems for San Antonio in several position groups. And
[35:38] Speaker 3: so the one reason why I would lean towards San
[35:40] Speaker 3: Antonio is I think they're gonna be able to guard
[35:43] Speaker 3: Minnesota really well too. This is the dynamic that like
[35:47] Speaker 3: Minnesota made it to the conference finals each of the
[35:48] Speaker 3: last two years, and who did they lose to Chet
[35:51] Speaker 3: with Lou Dord on the ball and likely Lively Gafford
[35:55] Speaker 3: with Derek Jones on the ball. Like if you can
[35:57] Speaker 3: put a big rimp protector in an athlete on Ant,
[36:00] Speaker 3: you can usually get enough stops to cause the problems
[36:03] Speaker 3: for Minnesota, and so I do think we're gonna I
[36:06] Speaker 3: think we're gonna run into a similar dynamic from the
[36:08] Speaker 3: Knick series. Where can the Wolves play without Rudy Gobert
[36:12] Speaker 3: in some big spots. That could be a big part
[36:14] Speaker 3: of the series because they're gonna have to find a
[36:15] Speaker 3: way to get Victor women Yama away from the rim.
[36:17] Speaker 3: But that's gonna be a great series.
[36:19] Speaker 4: Honest.
[36:19] Speaker 3: It's crazy that the Lakers are in the second round.
[36:21] Speaker 3: They might be the most boring second round series because
[36:23] Speaker 3: they're gonna get their butts killed.
[36:25] Speaker 4: You know.
[36:25] Speaker 2: It's interesting. Usually the first round of the NBA is chalk,
[36:30] Speaker 2: you know. And yet we've had these wild upsets and
[36:33] Speaker 2: I was thinking about that today. We've had multiple wild upsets,
[36:37] Speaker 2: and I think that's the advantage to having one potentially
[36:42] Speaker 2: great team. Okay, see, I think if they win back
[36:45] Speaker 2: to back, you start looking at their numbers and their
[36:47] Speaker 2: depth and it's like, Okay, historically it's pretty damn convincing,
[36:51] Speaker 2: But we don't have I mean, it's I mean, I
[36:53] Speaker 2: always say there's great teams. We have almost none. There's
[36:57] Speaker 2: very good teams. San Antonio Okasee. I thought Boston was
[37:00] Speaker 2: when they were healthy, and then there's good teams and
[37:03] Speaker 2: a lot of these Detroit. I mean, I think New
[37:05] Speaker 2: York's a good team with some real defensive issues. Philadelphia
[37:08] Speaker 2: has no bench. I think they're a good team that
[37:11] Speaker 2: when they're healthy, which is infrequent, they have very good nights,
[37:16] Speaker 2: and they had a couple of them against Boston. But
[37:19] Speaker 2: I'll go back to embiid is that like sixer fan
[37:22] Speaker 2: is like, why don't we get respect? It's not respect
[37:24] Speaker 2: and Beads just the world's biggest tease. We're just we
[37:26] Speaker 2: don't know. We just never know if he's gonna play.
[37:29] Speaker 2: I mean, think of the bigs that are left and
[37:30] Speaker 2: Bead's left, Kat's left, Go Bear's left, Wenby's back home,
[37:35] Speaker 2: Gren's left, go Bear. I mean we got we have,
[37:39] Speaker 2: you know, for all the people's small ball Allen like,
[37:44] Speaker 2: there's the game's bigs. I mean, Giannis is one of
[37:47] Speaker 2: the and they've got issues. I will say this, I've
[37:50] Speaker 2: read a ton about Denver and it feels like, you know,
[37:55] Speaker 2: I said this the other day, Denver ripped the band
[37:57] Speaker 2: it off. Don't do a Milwaukee. Don't cling to these
[38:00] Speaker 2: older guys, Chris Middleton, brook Lowpit like make a move,
[38:05] Speaker 2: and because he didn't, Jamal Murray finally made an All
[38:08] Speaker 2: Star team. Not very athletic, and he had a you know,
[38:12] Speaker 2: he didn't have a very good series. There are times
[38:15] Speaker 2: that he you know, he can be a little hot
[38:16] Speaker 2: and cold. I would consider moving him. Aaron Gordon durability issues,
[38:20] Speaker 2: love him going to have a really good market. I
[38:23] Speaker 2: would move him. I mean, I think my take on Denver,
[38:28] Speaker 2: Jannie isn't going to age brilliantly because he's hyper athletic.
[38:32] Speaker 2: So I've said before I would move Jannis. I would
[38:34] Speaker 2: have done it three years ago. You got your title.
[38:36] Speaker 2: Yokich is going to age better because he's more nuanced
[38:39] Speaker 2: layer shooting, screening, distribution. I would build everything around him,
[38:43] Speaker 2: so I would. I would kind of make several huge moves.
[38:48] Speaker 2: Would you move off Gordon and Murray?
[38:51] Speaker 4: Colin? This has been the hardest one for me.
[38:53] Speaker 3: I spent all day to day, well not all day,
[38:56] Speaker 3: but a long time today just like looking around the
[38:58] Speaker 3: league being like, what the hell does Denver do? And
[39:02] Speaker 3: to your point, they have to do something pretty drastic.
[39:05] Speaker 3: I would start by doing a little bit of research
[39:08] Speaker 3: with CJ. McCollum's camp, and I'd be like, hey, is
[39:11] Speaker 3: there any chance we can get you to come take
[39:14] Speaker 3: a mid level exception with us? Because if you can
[39:17] Speaker 3: get CJ McCollum to agree to come over, I think
[39:20] Speaker 3: that makes Jamal Murray expendable. I think you run it
[39:24] Speaker 3: into some dangerous territory if you get rid of Jamal
[39:27] Speaker 3: and you don't have a dude who can hit a
[39:29] Speaker 3: pull up jump shot, because that is just an important
[39:32] Speaker 3: I know, I know Jamal came up short this year,
[39:34] Speaker 3: but it's a big part of winning in the playoffs.
[39:36] Speaker 3: So like, if they were able to convince CJ McCollum
[39:38] Speaker 3: to come over, I think I like the idea of
[39:41] Speaker 3: potentially moving Jamal.
[39:43] Speaker 2: Also, he's a super veteran high eq IQ. You can't
[39:48] Speaker 2: bring a kid in with jokics like you need a
[39:50] Speaker 2: guy that gets the league. I mean that's a good fit, honestly,
[39:54] Speaker 2: just because CJ's such a bright player.
[39:57] Speaker 4: He'd be perfect.
[39:58] Speaker 3: Like when I was looking around, I was like, that's
[39:59] Speaker 3: the perfect dude, because you're gonna have to hit a
[40:02] Speaker 3: home run on a value somewhere, and to me, getting
[40:06] Speaker 3: CJ on an exception is your value play. Everything else
[40:10] Speaker 3: is about kind of swapping, right, Because if you get
[40:12] Speaker 3: if you're gonna give up an Aaron Gordon, you're gonna
[40:14] Speaker 3: get back something similar like a a player is on
[40:17] Speaker 3: a big contract who probably isn't like an amazing Jada
[40:20] Speaker 3: McDaniels level player, because otherwise, why would you take Aaron
[40:23] Speaker 3: Gordon back? Right, Like, you're gonna have to be dealing
[40:24] Speaker 3: with some flaws like Derek White, for example, just had
[40:26] Speaker 3: his worst jump shooting season with the Boston Celtics. So
[40:29] Speaker 3: that's why there might be some value there because it's
[40:33] Speaker 3: two kind of flawed veteran players that are making around
[40:36] Speaker 3: thirty million. So it makes some sense there, right, So
[40:39] Speaker 3: we talked about the Aaron Gordon for Derek White swap.
[40:41] Speaker 3: The other team that I consider calling with Jamal Murray
[40:44] Speaker 3: as a team that could use a ball handling guard.
[40:46] Speaker 3: So maybe Houston or maybe Orlando, those are two teams
[40:50] Speaker 3: that have a surplus of athletes that have a need
[40:54] Speaker 3: for ball handling and jump shooting. Jamal Murray is a
[40:57] Speaker 3: guy that you could call in that sort of case.
[40:59] Speaker 3: I think what specific dynamic that they're missing that they
[41:02] Speaker 3: need is what Aaron Gordon brought when he was young,
[41:05] Speaker 3: which was like a big athletic like rim protector behind
[41:10] Speaker 3: Yokic on defense, but a vertical space a lob threat
[41:14] Speaker 3: for Jokic to throw lobs too. How many times did
[41:17] Speaker 3: he get downhill and throw it to Christian Brown and
[41:19] Speaker 3: Christian Brown would just get scared and run back out
[41:21] Speaker 3: because he couldn't finish in traffic, Like they need a
[41:23] Speaker 3: vertical spacer under the rim. So I thought about, like
[41:26] Speaker 3: maybe Adam Bona out of Philly. That's a guy that
[41:29] Speaker 3: I think could play a little bit with Jokic. I
[41:31] Speaker 3: thought about one of the Gafford Lively duo in Dallas,
[41:35] Speaker 3: like what if they call Dallas and they were like
[41:37] Speaker 3: Jamal Murray for PJ. Washington and Daniel Gafford. And so
[41:41] Speaker 3: now we've got a forward in a center that we
[41:43] Speaker 3: can play alongside Jokic. But again, I don't like the
[41:45] Speaker 3: idea of giving up Jamal because his skill set is
[41:48] Speaker 3: sony unique. I don't like the idea of giving up
[41:50] Speaker 3: Jamal unless you know you can get CJ on the
[41:52] Speaker 3: other side of it, because I think you just solve
[41:54] Speaker 3: one problem and create another.
[41:56] Speaker 2: In that case, Yeah, I think Denver's but I like
[41:59] Speaker 2: the idea that Denver kind of looks at Milwaukee and says, listen,
[42:03] Speaker 2: we both got our title. Our big is gonna age better.
[42:06] Speaker 2: Our big is just more dexterity offensively. But let's not
[42:11] Speaker 2: you know, you start looking at the league, even Houston,
[42:13] Speaker 2: which loses when they get Van Vliet back. Houston's got
[42:16] Speaker 2: they can make multiple moves. They've got really good young players. Yep.
[42:22] Speaker 2: I mean to me, Houston's gonna have a great offseason
[42:24] Speaker 2: and Denver can play around. So Aaron Gordon and Jamal
[42:28] Speaker 2: Murray both have I think we'll have a significant market.
[42:31] Speaker 2: I mean, Aaron Gordon is just so athletic. There's a
[42:33] Speaker 2: durability issue. But as the league gets younger, I think
[42:36] Speaker 2: there's real value in getting like playoff minute guys, playoff experience.
[42:39] Speaker 2: I mean, look, we're talking.
[42:40] Speaker 3: As long as you can sit him in the regular season,
[42:43] Speaker 3: as long as you can keep his minutes low. I
[42:44] Speaker 3: think he makes sense for a variety of teams. You
[42:47] Speaker 3: just can't trade for Aaron Gordon if you need him
[42:49] Speaker 3: to play eighty two games for you.
[42:51] Speaker 2: Jason Timp hoops tonight, good talking, Buddy.
[42:55] Speaker 4: Good to see a Colin.
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