# Colin Cowherd Podcast - Jalen Brunson Most “Popular” Knick Ever? Caitlin Clark vs Angel Reece Rivalry, “Tush Push” Survives

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 22 May 2025, 1 h 03 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/7aac766d-d608-43f2-b9d5-b2e40188a091/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “Breakfast Ball” on FS1! They start with Colin sharing commuter stories from their time in Chicago and why they love commuting via train and plane and Colin explains why a business class seat to Europe is his “happy place” (3:30). They pivot to the NBA and why the Thunder and T-Wolves series will struggle to pull ratings in a league with incredible parity, but Danny counters that long term it will be good for the league and pleads for an earlier tip-off (10:30). They highlight Anthony Edwards lack of shots taken in Game 1, contrasting his lack of assertiveness with past stars like Michael Jordan and the lack of urgency shown by modern players (15:30). They discuss why NIL money is funneling worldwide basketball talent back into American college basketball and why OKC would be best served using their stockpiled capital in the draft rather than trade it for an established player (26:15). Colin proposes that Jalen Brunson has a chance to be the most popular Knicks player of all time but Danny argues that Clyde Frazier will retain that title and that Brunson is a “smidge” overrated (33:00). They discuss the gender disparity embedded in the discourse about the Caitlin Clark vs Angel Reece rivalry, and why if there’s a bit of “hate” in a sports rivalry… it’s a GOOD thing (40:30). They express their surprise that the NFL didn’t ban the “tush push” since it’s both bad television and will get players hurt (57:00). Finally, they debate how long it will take for the influence of Ben Johnson’s coaching to show up on the field for Caleb Williams and whether it spells trouble if he struggles early in the season (1:06:15). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: The volume.
[0:03] Speaker 2: At the end of the season. There's only one team
[0:05] Speaker 2: that can call themselves NBA Champs, only one player that
[0:08] Speaker 2: can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well,
[0:10] Speaker 2: there's only one electric suv worthy of the title, The Ultimate,
[0:14] Speaker 2: the All Electric BMWIX. What I love about the IX
[0:18] Speaker 2: is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. I've had several
[0:22] Speaker 2: while It's sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out,
[0:27] Speaker 2: not to mention how much space and utility it provides.
[0:30] Speaker 2: Over seventy five cubic feet of cargo space. The IX
[0:33] Speaker 2: is completely changing the game with an all electric suv.
[0:37] Speaker 2: The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of
[0:39] Speaker 2: the game, So why would you settle for anything less
[0:42] Speaker 2: from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate, the BMWIX.
[0:47] Speaker 2: Everything you love about the Ultimate driving Machine electrified BMW
[0:56] Speaker 2: All right, let's chop it up for an hour with
[0:57] Speaker 2: Danny Parkins. Former Chicago kid lived his dream on the radio,
[1:04] Speaker 2: left the city to go to FS one because I
[1:06] Speaker 2: talked him into it. That was part of it. And
[1:08] Speaker 2: now I live in Chicago and I just jumped off
[1:11] Speaker 2: the train taking the train from the oglev Center to
[1:14] Speaker 2: a Neetka is pure joy. Nobody bothers you. It's the best.
[1:19] Speaker 2: Now the mornings are a little dicey. But I've so
[1:22] Speaker 2: I've been experimenting, Danny for the first three weeks. I've
[1:25] Speaker 2: been experimenting. I've discovered that Monday is not a bad
[1:28] Speaker 2: traffic day. I'll take a driver Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or hell,
[1:34] Speaker 2: I'll take the train, and weather screws everything up to
[1:37] Speaker 2: make the drive even worse. Is that kind of the
[1:40] Speaker 2: understanding in Chicago that Monday's the best drive day?
[1:45] Speaker 3: Oh man? So here's the thing.
[1:46] Speaker 1: The Kennedy is just under this like unbelievable construction project
[1:52] Speaker 1: right now. It just makes everything hillacious, like it was
[1:55] Speaker 1: the thing I was most excited to leave Chicago about
[1:58] Speaker 1: because I drove in and you know, I drove myself,
[2:01] Speaker 1: you know, local radio, and drove in and drove out,
[2:06] Speaker 1: and where my radio studio was was nowhere near Ogilvy.
[2:10] Speaker 1: And if I wanted to get home in time to
[2:11] Speaker 1: see my little kids before bed, I needed to get
[2:13] Speaker 1: on the road as fast as possible as opposed to
[2:15] Speaker 1: walking across the loop.
[2:17] Speaker 3: So you're on it, but just.
[2:18] Speaker 1: So you know, it can change in a moment's notice,
[2:22] Speaker 1: Like your three week sample size of the halacious Chicago
[2:26] Speaker 1: commute is not enough because the express lanes will be
[2:31] Speaker 1: randomly closed at some point they will do some other
[2:34] Speaker 1: nonsense construction project that, instead of three years, will take seven.
[2:38] Speaker 1: So generally speaking, though, if you feel like you can
[2:42] Speaker 1: do the Metra, the Metra is great because you never
[2:47] Speaker 1: will be bothered. Colin, You're like the most famous person
[2:50] Speaker 1: in Chicago that isn't an athlete. So so like these
[2:54] Speaker 1: people that are commuting to the north shore of Chicago,
[2:57] Speaker 1: they're probably like, is that Colin Coward. No, it couldn't be.
[3:00] Speaker 1: It's probably a banker. And then they'll just go on
[3:03] Speaker 1: with their day. So I promise you will never be bothered.
[3:06] Speaker 2: No, it's great. I you know, I've never taken the train.
[3:08] Speaker 2: I've had friends in New York that did I mean,
[3:12] Speaker 2: and people all walks alive, kids, college, successful, Wall Street,
[3:16] Speaker 2: and they were always like, yeah, I read on the train.
[3:18] Speaker 2: I listened to a Sam Harris pod today with Jake Tapper.
[3:22] Speaker 2: Those thirty three minutes I got through most of it.
[3:24] Speaker 2: It was like, this is great. So I was like,
[3:27] Speaker 2: I don't know. I always try to find the positive
[3:29] Speaker 2: and stuff. And I was like, you know, I'll listen
[3:32] Speaker 2: to even more podcasts. It's thirty five minutes. I always
[3:34] Speaker 2: said I wrote my first book on a plane every
[3:39] Speaker 2: time I At that time, I was going a lot
[3:40] Speaker 2: from ESPN to LA So I was going to call
[3:44] Speaker 2: the book shots fired from thirty three thousand feet. And
[3:48] Speaker 2: then it's so and at some point something happened in
[3:51] Speaker 2: the country and I was like, no, that's not appropriate
[3:53] Speaker 2: or something. But I've always found planes and trains it's
[3:56] Speaker 2: really you're just really isolated, and I just go, I
[3:59] Speaker 2: just go to work.
[4:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I I you know, I'm far in because
[4:05] Speaker 1: there are no trains from the suburbs of New York
[4:07] Speaker 1: that I live in that run as early as we
[4:10] Speaker 1: have to be in for Breakfast Ball. So I go
[4:12] Speaker 1: car in and train out and the train out. You know,
[4:16] Speaker 1: it's great because it's a good excuse to get work done.
[4:19] Speaker 1: It's a good excuse to veg out. Yeah, it's a
[4:22] Speaker 1: good just like it's a good excuse to be selfish.
[4:24] Speaker 1: It's not. There's no quiet cars, so if you need
[4:26] Speaker 1: to make a phone call, you can, But I really
[4:29] Speaker 1: don't like to. Yeah, I like to just kind of
[4:31] Speaker 1: do my thing and make it my me time to decompress,
[4:35] Speaker 1: and yeah, if you can be productive. Airplane productivity is
[4:38] Speaker 1: the best because now there's Wi Fi on planes and
[4:41] Speaker 1: you can text and email and be connected to the world.
[4:44] Speaker 1: But it's also a very easy lie. Oh the know
[4:47] Speaker 1: the life I was done. My phone wasn't working and
[4:50] Speaker 1: you get and you're like, no, no one really expects
[4:52] Speaker 1: you to be connected at thirty three thousand feet for
[4:55] Speaker 1: whatever reason. So the ability to just completely decompress and
[4:58] Speaker 1: unplug from the world is a joyous thing.
[5:02] Speaker 2: I told my wife we were talking about my happiest place,
[5:05] Speaker 2: like when am my happiest And obviously when I was
[5:08] Speaker 2: a young dad, it would be like hearing my kids laugh,
[5:10] Speaker 2: or being at the beach with my kids and just
[5:11] Speaker 2: seeing your kids have the time of their life at Disney.
[5:14] Speaker 2: When I used to go to Disney, Like, there's just
[5:16] Speaker 2: nothing better than being on a ride with your daughter
[5:18] Speaker 2: and she's screaming and you're laughing and it's bad food.
[5:21] Speaker 2: That's the most fun I've ever had in my life.
[5:23] Speaker 2: But one of my happy places now, I tell my wife,
[5:25] Speaker 2: like once a year in the summer we try to
[5:27] Speaker 2: go to Europe somewhere, and I'm going to visit my
[5:29] Speaker 2: son in a couple of weeks and he's doing some
[5:31] Speaker 2: school in London. And I said, hey, I'll come join you.
[5:34] Speaker 2: We'll go to Copenagan for a couple of days. Let's
[5:36] Speaker 2: just you know. And I made him a promise a
[5:37] Speaker 2: few years ago at least every other year, So you
[5:40] Speaker 2: and I get on a plane and go somewhere around
[5:42] Speaker 2: the world. And so and I told my wife, I said,
[5:44] Speaker 2: you know, getting on a good business seat heading to Europe,
[5:50] Speaker 2: knowing you're getting free wine, a great movie, sleep and
[5:55] Speaker 2: a meal. I'm like, God, that makes me happy. That's
[5:58] Speaker 2: just And I know I don't have to work for
[6:00] Speaker 2: like ten days. And I used to hate vacations when
[6:03] Speaker 2: you started. I didn't like vacations. I didn't want to
[6:06] Speaker 2: be off. And now it's like no love.
[6:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, once you're established and you feel like you
[6:13] Speaker 1: can take it, you know. And now, in a weird way,
[6:15] Speaker 1: I've started over because I've transitioned into this new career,
[6:20] Speaker 1: this new profile, trying to build a national profile and
[6:22] Speaker 1: all those things. But yeah, beginning in radio, I would
[6:25] Speaker 1: never take off, or if I took off for my
[6:28] Speaker 1: job in Kansas City. I would fill in in Chicago
[6:32] Speaker 1: for them on Christmas, Like I would come home and
[6:35] Speaker 1: work Black Friday, work Christmas Eve, Christmas Day on the
[6:40] Speaker 1: Chicago stations just to get the reps because I was
[6:42] Speaker 1: so excited to be on, you know, in the big
[6:44] Speaker 1: city and in my hometown. And then when you get
[6:47] Speaker 1: the first job in Chicago, you feel like you can't
[6:49] Speaker 1: take off. But then when you get like good ratings
[6:51] Speaker 1: and success and drive time, then you know it wasn't
[6:53] Speaker 1: as big of a deal to take off. And now
[6:56] Speaker 1: it's easy because they don't let you take off. We
[6:58] Speaker 1: do so many shows, it was unbelievable. We did a
[7:01] Speaker 1: Thanksgiving show, we did a Christmas Eve show.
[7:04] Speaker 3: We're working Memorial Day, we worked New Year's Day.
[7:08] Speaker 1: So it's funny, like the cycle of these jobs, it
[7:12] Speaker 1: starts over again. But I'm with you. But the I
[7:16] Speaker 1: don't love flying, but the act of flying too somewhere
[7:21] Speaker 1: is the is the greatest because it's the beginning. It's
[7:25] Speaker 1: like limitless by like the flight to Vegas when I
[7:28] Speaker 1: was a young single and it's like I have five
[7:31] Speaker 1: hundred dollars and anything's yes. But the flight to Vegas
[7:35] Speaker 1: in my twenties was like the happiest of my entire
[7:38] Speaker 1: life other than my kids obviously.
[7:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, those things that you're supposed to all. That's why
[7:41] Speaker 2: I feel about Europe. I'm like, I got ten days here,
[7:44] Speaker 2: and that can unplug really quickly. When I know I
[7:46] Speaker 2: don't work. If I take a three day I take
[7:48] Speaker 2: a lot of three day weekends in the summer, you
[7:50] Speaker 2: never really unplugged.
[7:51] Speaker 1: You know.
[7:51] Speaker 2: If something happened, I write it down, I want, I
[7:53] Speaker 2: want it for the show on Monday. But so I'll
[7:56] Speaker 2: get to my happy place pretty quick.
[7:57] Speaker 1: You know.
[7:58] Speaker 2: It was two be true. Number one is the NBA
[8:03] Speaker 2: got seventy six billion dollars. They're good. Number two. Number
[8:09] Speaker 2: two Hockey Baseball MLS and the NBA regular seasons will
[8:13] Speaker 2: never matter as much as they used to because there's
[8:16] Speaker 2: just too much content. We're all distracted. Young people don't
[8:19] Speaker 2: watch as much television. And I was looking at the
[8:22] Speaker 2: game last night between the t Wolves and OKC, and
[8:24] Speaker 2: I was thinking, oh, yeah, this isn't gonna work. This
[8:27] Speaker 2: is not going to pull a number the Knicks Pacers will.
[8:30] Speaker 2: But I was watching Minnesota OKAC and I'm like, this
[8:32] Speaker 2: is Adam Silver's want this is the league he wants.
[8:35] Speaker 2: He doesn't want stack teams. He inherited that league from
[8:38] Speaker 2: David Stern. He heard. He's a very if not idealistic,
[8:42] Speaker 2: he's kind of a he's very pro employee, like he
[8:47] Speaker 2: listens to his employees. David Stern could bulldoze you. This
[8:50] Speaker 2: is what I'm gonna do. He had two or three
[8:52] Speaker 2: agents and five or six owners. He was close to Silver.
[8:55] Speaker 2: Is more about the collaborative and the fabric of the league.
[8:58] Speaker 2: But he also inherited a very successful league from Stern.
[9:01] Speaker 2: Stern ended up trying to kind of save the league.
[9:04] Speaker 2: So David was like, Nike, Jordan, Magic Bird, big Markets,
[9:09] Speaker 2: that's what we're gonna do. So it's a different time.
[9:11] Speaker 2: But I look at I think this is now the
[9:13] Speaker 2: NBA with a new CABA that Adam Silver wanted. But
[9:17] Speaker 2: I watched two things can be true. I watched Minnesota
[9:19] Speaker 2: and Oklahoma City. I don't I think that will get
[9:23] Speaker 2: a dreadful national number. Am I wrong?
[9:27] Speaker 3: I don't think you're wrong. But I also don't care.
[9:30] Speaker 1: Like I'm not a television executive, I'm not in business
[9:33] Speaker 1: with Like I'm not in business with the NBA.
[9:37] Speaker 3: I you know, I don't care.
[9:40] Speaker 1: I think that we should be talking about it on
[9:42] Speaker 1: our shows because I think sports fans will watch it.
[9:46] Speaker 1: Will they watch it at the exact same clip as
[9:48] Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference Finals. No, obviously not market size, relevance,
[9:53] Speaker 1: people know New York, all of those sort of things.
[9:56] Speaker 3: That that's all fine.
[9:58] Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts on last night's game,
[10:00] Speaker 1: the Thunder, the discourse, but we can start with your
[10:02] Speaker 1: premise about the league that Adam Silver wants.
[10:07] Speaker 3: This is a historic time for the NBA.
[10:10] Speaker 1: This will be the first time ever that there are
[10:14] Speaker 1: seven different champions in seven years, no back to backs,
[10:18] Speaker 1: but last seven years, seven different organizations will have won
[10:22] Speaker 1: the NBA title. And so I looked it up. Heyday
[10:26] Speaker 1: of the NBA, everyone says, is you know Bird, Magic, Jordan,
[10:30] Speaker 1: Kobe Shack Lakers right nineteen eighty through the early two thousands.
[10:35] Speaker 1: If you go from the nineteen eighty NBA Finals when
[10:37] Speaker 1: Magic Johnson came in and played center and replaced Kareem
[10:41] Speaker 1: maybe the most famous game of his career through just
[10:44] Speaker 1: before the first the Dwayne Wade Shack Heat title. Twenty
[10:49] Speaker 1: six years nineteen eighty to two thousand and five, seven
[10:52] Speaker 1: different teams won a championship. So the heyday of the
[10:56] Speaker 1: NBA twenty five, twenty six years, seven champions now seven
[11:00] Speaker 1: champions in seven years. Dynasties are good for sports. They
[11:04] Speaker 1: make people care. You love them, you hate them, you
[11:07] Speaker 1: have opinions. They are good for national ratings. But I
[11:10] Speaker 1: do think that in the long run, even if there
[11:14] Speaker 1: is a five percent dip of ten percent dip in ratings,
[11:17] Speaker 1: I do think long term this will be good for
[11:20] Speaker 1: the NBA because there will be some belief that I
[11:23] Speaker 1: think they will legitimately be able to sell of anybody
[11:27] Speaker 1: can win.
[11:28] Speaker 2: Listen to this. I just got this from our Goldie,
[11:31] Speaker 2: our producer just sent me this. Te Wolves under game
[11:35] Speaker 2: one down twenty four percent from last year, least watch
[11:37] Speaker 2: game one conference finals since twenty twenty one.
[11:40] Speaker 1: There you go, Okay, fine, like small markets people that
[11:44] Speaker 1: not everybody knows yet, but also a blowout, like let's
[11:47] Speaker 1: see how that goes over the course of over the
[11:50] Speaker 1: course of time. Also, this is a you're a media observer, Okay,
[11:56] Speaker 1: I understand why the Western Conference Finals have to start
[11:58] Speaker 1: later than the Eastern Conference finals, but when it ends
[12:01] Speaker 1: up being Oklahoma City in Minnesota, does it have to
[12:05] Speaker 1: be eight thirty Eastern, Right.
[12:08] Speaker 3: Am I crazy?
[12:09] Speaker 1: Like the Eastern Conference finals will start at eight pm Eastern,
[12:13] Speaker 1: and if it was, if it was, if it was
[12:15] Speaker 1: Lakers Warriors, I get why they need every minute possible
[12:19] Speaker 1: to try to pack the building and respect the people
[12:21] Speaker 1: leaving work on the West Coast. But and I know
[12:25] Speaker 1: that these things are predetermined ahead of time. Eastern Conference
[12:27] Speaker 1: teams are going to start eight Western Conference games were
[12:29] Speaker 1: going to start eight thirty.
[12:30] Speaker 3: But when it's two teams in the Central time.
[12:32] Speaker 1: Zone that game ends after eleven pm Eastern on a
[12:38] Speaker 1: school night, that can't help. That can't help what you're
[12:41] Speaker 1: talking about with the ratings. So I wish that they
[12:44] Speaker 1: had a little bit more flexibility, flexibility when it comes
[12:47] Speaker 1: to skate. You know.
[12:48] Speaker 2: The other thing I thought about last night is that
[12:51] Speaker 2: I don't know how many shots Ant took. It was
[12:54] Speaker 2: like thirteen or something. He didn't shoot thirteen and he's
[12:57] Speaker 2: a great player. But this is the difference how great
[13:02] Speaker 2: Michael Jordan was. Jordan last night, probably in a losing cause,
[13:07] Speaker 2: if he played for Minnesota would have taken thirty nine shots.
[13:11] Speaker 2: Is that Michael never had a game that I can remember,
[13:14] Speaker 2: a big one, even the flu game where you're like,
[13:16] Speaker 2: Michael took thirteen shots his generation. Michael didn't care. Michael
[13:21] Speaker 2: was going to go down. Michael's the most relentlessly competitive
[13:24] Speaker 2: person I've ever seen. I mean in Magic Bird, everybody
[13:28] Speaker 2: Lebron Steph, it doesn't matter. Is that Jason Tatum. There
[13:33] Speaker 2: are times I'm like, is he on the floor?
[13:35] Speaker 1: Last night?
[13:36] Speaker 2: In the second half, I'm like, is aunt playing? Is
[13:40] Speaker 2: that everybody's rich in the league. It's a much more
[13:44] Speaker 2: you know, collaborative. I mean, Michael Jordan had no problem saying, hey,
[13:48] Speaker 2: Republicans buy shoes. Who I'm not talking politics. You'd be
[13:53] Speaker 2: hard to say that today is a professional athlete. You'd
[13:57] Speaker 2: get just destroyed by the collective, the media collective. But
[14:03] Speaker 2: that's the difference. When people haven't seen Michael play. I
[14:06] Speaker 2: always say that Michael never had a game or a
[14:11] Speaker 2: moment where you went, is Michael on the floor. I mean,
[14:14] Speaker 2: I remember a game against Utah in the finals. I
[14:16] Speaker 2: remember a game against Phoenix in the finals. He took
[14:18] Speaker 2: a jumper from the angle. It hit backboard and floor,
[14:22] Speaker 2: It didn't hit rim. It was a terrible shot. They
[14:25] Speaker 2: had games against Utah where he was like seven for
[14:27] Speaker 2: thirty three. But there is something about everybody being rich
[14:32] Speaker 2: and everybody has the same for agents and they all
[14:34] Speaker 2: like each other that there isn't there is that there
[14:37] Speaker 2: is a real sense there's tomorrow. Don't expand your energy.
[14:43] Speaker 2: And I watched Minnesota the second half and I'm like, oh,
[14:46] Speaker 2: they're done tonight. They're done tonight. They were clearly done early.
[14:51] Speaker 1: Listen.
[14:51] Speaker 3: I will give Anthony Edwards.
[14:54] Speaker 1: He went back to the locker room with the ankle injury,
[14:57] Speaker 1: and I don't know how much pain he was in.
[14:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, like I maybe right.
[15:01] Speaker 1: But here's the thing about last night's game. I was
[15:07] Speaker 1: appalled at some of the discourse of SGA's a foul merchants.
[15:13] Speaker 1: The Thunder aren't watchable. I don't like their brand of basketball.
[15:18] Speaker 1: I know he was just announced as the MVP, but
[15:20] Speaker 1: he hadn't won the MVP yet. He has no finals appearances,
[15:24] Speaker 1: he has no rings. If people are already sick of
[15:27] Speaker 1: the Thunder and you're an actual basketball fan, the next
[15:32] Speaker 1: ten years of your basketball viewing are going to be miserable.
[15:35] Speaker 1: They're the youngest playoff team in the league. They're younger
[15:40] Speaker 1: than the Pistons. Their oldest starter is twenty seven years old,
[15:44] Speaker 1: Shay is twenty six, Jalen Williams and chet are twenty
[15:48] Speaker 1: three each, and Sam Presty's the best executive in the sport.
[15:52] Speaker 1: Their coach was a finalist for Coach of the Year
[15:54] Speaker 1: after winning it last year, and they have every draft
[15:56] Speaker 1: pick for the next decade. And people are SGA's a merchant.
[16:00] Speaker 1: They talk about him like he's James Harden. He drives
[16:04] Speaker 1: to the rim more than any player in the league.
[16:07] Speaker 1: Not this year, not these playoffs. For five straight years,
[16:15] Speaker 1: Shay Guiltess Alexander has led the NBA in drives to
[16:18] Speaker 1: the basket.
[16:19] Speaker 3: Minnesota took fifty one threes last night.
[16:23] Speaker 1: Oklahoma City took twenty one, and the free throw discrepancy
[16:27] Speaker 1: was five and people were like, oh, the refs are
[16:30] Speaker 1: in it for small market Oklahoma City and zero time
[16:34] Speaker 1: MVP Sga. No, that's how he plays, and so like
[16:39] Speaker 1: that game was a blowout and got hurt.
[16:41] Speaker 3: There was no reason to watch the fourth quarter of
[16:44] Speaker 3: the game. The ratings were down.
[16:45] Speaker 1: Okay, fine, but man, I don't understand how people all
[16:49] Speaker 1: year can be like, yeah, don't play defense, like the
[16:52] Speaker 1: collective league, the league doesn't play defense, and all they
[16:54] Speaker 1: do is shoot threes. And now you have a young,
[16:57] Speaker 1: up and coming, historically great defense team with a guy
[17:01] Speaker 1: who scores from everywhere on the floor, and you're like,
[17:03] Speaker 1: I hate that too, because is anybody satisfied? Well, we
[17:08] Speaker 1: have to bring Michael Jordan back from his fishing boat
[17:11] Speaker 1: to plays that the only way people will not complain
[17:14] Speaker 1: during an NBA game.
[17:15] Speaker 3: It drives me insane.
[17:17] Speaker 2: The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could
[17:20] Speaker 2: be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA Playoffs.
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[18:43] Speaker 2: Let me throw a theory at you. I talked about
[18:45] Speaker 2: it on my show today. I think you'll like this.
[18:48] Speaker 2: So I talked about it, okay, for like as you
[18:50] Speaker 2: can do on our show for four minutes, I can
[18:52] Speaker 2: talk about it with you for ten. So one of
[18:54] Speaker 2: the things I love about sports. I think you know
[18:56] Speaker 2: this theories, cultural changes, trying to see them as they're
[18:59] Speaker 2: happening in real time. Right, So take out the last
[19:04] Speaker 2: two Zach Edie made the All Rookie team. Okay, three
[19:10] Speaker 2: years ago, it's like, can't play just a college guy?
[19:14] Speaker 2: Why was everybody so wrong?
[19:16] Speaker 3: A year ago?
[19:17] Speaker 2: Mark Fus like, if he can't play NBA, it's an
[19:20] Speaker 2: NBA problem. But Danny Hurley's like, you can't tell me
[19:24] Speaker 2: he's not an NBA player. He's the hardest guy I've
[19:27] Speaker 2: ever done a game prep for. There's no way we're
[19:31] Speaker 2: gonna stop him. Mark fu said, all my years at Gonzaga,
[19:34] Speaker 2: hardest player to defend. We have nobody in the program.
[19:37] Speaker 2: And then he hits uh the Yukon team that had
[19:43] Speaker 2: two guys make the All Rookie team, the big in Portland,
[19:47] Speaker 2: and then a Donovan Oh god cling yes, clan my bad.
[19:52] Speaker 2: And then the kid from San Antonio, Stephen Castle. So
[19:58] Speaker 2: two things have happened in the last two years of
[20:00] Speaker 2: college basketball. Zachy's dominance translated to the NBA, and that
[20:06] Speaker 2: Yukon team that crushed people even in the tournament really
[20:12] Speaker 2: was full of excellent NBA players. Why do I say
[20:16] Speaker 2: that because for the previous twenty years, guys like Doug
[20:20] Speaker 2: McDermott one Player of the year and we're at best
[20:23] Speaker 2: rotational players. So why is this happening? NIL has saved
[20:29] Speaker 2: college basketball. So NIL is keeping guys like Zach Edie
[20:34] Speaker 2: NBA guys in one more year, or they choose college
[20:38] Speaker 2: over G league or international. A story today that Real
[20:41] Speaker 2: Madrid and Barcelona's amateur teams and this Spain has all
[20:46] Speaker 2: the great European young players. They're thinking of folding the
[20:49] Speaker 2: league because American NIL money is taking all the European
[20:54] Speaker 2: kids over here. So what is happening? So this European
[20:59] Speaker 2: system that was so we were so enamored with, Oh no, no,
[21:03] Speaker 2: those kids are not going to play college. The G
[21:06] Speaker 2: leaguers are going to play college. What does it do?
[21:09] Speaker 2: First two rounds this year? March Madness highest in thirty
[21:11] Speaker 2: two years. The quality was much better. Houston, Florida, Yukon. Well,
[21:15] Speaker 2: those are NBA players, So we went through about a
[21:18] Speaker 2: twenty year cycle kind of at the end of Grant
[21:20] Speaker 2: Hill and those kind of guys Larry Johnson and all
[21:23] Speaker 2: that stuff, Right, those are if you dominated college, you're
[21:26] Speaker 2: going to be a good pro and no moment about
[21:28] Speaker 2: twenty five thirty years you're like Jim or Furdette, Doug McDermott,
[21:32] Speaker 2: Tyler Hansborough. You could dominate college and be a rotational player,
[21:37] Speaker 2: and I think it hurt the quality of the game.
[21:39] Speaker 2: But between that Barcelona story, between the ratings and Zach
[21:45] Speaker 2: Edy and the Yukon guys, what you're seeing now is
[21:48] Speaker 2: college basketball is a rebirth that when you're watching it
[21:52] Speaker 2: in March and a guy is dominating. So long story,
[21:58] Speaker 2: what does this mean? What does this mean? Okac? They
[22:02] Speaker 2: have stockpiled all these draft picks and we always assumed, okay,
[22:06] Speaker 2: see Danny was going to use those picks to get
[22:08] Speaker 2: a Yannis. Don't give those picks up. The draft now
[22:13] Speaker 2: is going to be like this year's draft. You're like, oh,
[22:15] Speaker 2: there's like seven domestic players in the top ten and
[22:18] Speaker 2: they're all really really good. Is that the idea that
[22:22] Speaker 2: you give out your picks for Yannis if you don't
[22:25] Speaker 2: like Okac? Now, with all those picks, these are going
[22:30] Speaker 2: to be NBA players coming out of college. Now they
[22:33] Speaker 2: can play almost immediately.
[22:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a great point.
[22:38] Speaker 1: And the guy who accumulated the picks happens to have
[22:42] Speaker 1: a better record in both eras of what you're talking
[22:46] Speaker 1: about of nailing the picks. So like Sam Presty, everybody
[22:51] Speaker 1: has misses, but he has fewer than most. Like he
[22:57] Speaker 1: traded for Sga but on his rookie like as she
[23:01] Speaker 1: was just available and he traded for him, he sniped him,
[23:05] Speaker 1: he traded. This is not a college player, not a
[23:08] Speaker 1: young player, so not a perfect example like Alex Caruso
[23:12] Speaker 1: wins them Game seven. Alex Caruso was on the Lakers,
[23:19] Speaker 1: they offered him three years, twenty one million dollars. The
[23:22] Speaker 1: Bulls offered him three for thirty seven and restricted free agency,
[23:27] Speaker 1: and the Lakers are like, no, we'd rather have Taylor
[23:29] Speaker 1: Horton Tucker, So he went to Chicago. Then the Bulls
[23:35] Speaker 1: trade Alex Caruso to Sam Presty for Josh Gitty. Josh Gitty,
[23:39] Speaker 1: nice player, pulls up the stat sheet, fun young, high
[23:42] Speaker 1: upside guy. Not saying anything bad about Josh Gitty, But
[23:46] Speaker 1: Alex Caruso clearly is a championship pedigree player, elite defensive player.
[23:53] Speaker 3: And Sam Presty has approximately three hundred and twenty.
[23:56] Speaker 1: Seven extra draft picks and the Bulls couldn't get one
[23:59] Speaker 1: of them in that trade for Alex Caruso.
[24:02] Speaker 3: I read that trade and I was like, oh, that's funny.
[24:04] Speaker 1: They got Josh Giddy, but like, what's the draft pick?
[24:07] Speaker 3: And it never came Like so Sam Resty is just
[24:12] Speaker 3: great at this.
[24:13] Speaker 1: He's great at it, And I agree with you, they
[24:17] Speaker 1: will keep a lot of those assets. You can only
[24:20] Speaker 1: have twelve guys on a team. And like they traded
[24:22] Speaker 1: Josh Giddy because there wasn't a spot for him right,
[24:25] Speaker 1: Like they had too many good young backcourt players that
[24:28] Speaker 1: were cheap. That's not a problem most teams have. So
[24:32] Speaker 1: I don't think he'll use every draft pick, you know,
[24:36] Speaker 1: but he can. He can. He can go out and
[24:40] Speaker 1: get any player he wants whenever he decides to cash
[24:43] Speaker 1: his chips in. I don't think it'll be for Giannis,
[24:46] Speaker 1: but I think it'll be for cheap waiver because they
[24:51] Speaker 1: want guys on their rookie deal who they can sign
[24:53] Speaker 1: to second contracts because free agents aren't historically going to
[24:56] Speaker 1: choose Oklahoma City. And he can just say, oh, we're
[24:59] Speaker 1: what's the one thing We're not a lead at three
[25:02] Speaker 1: point shooting? Who's the best three and D guy in
[25:04] Speaker 1: the NBA on a rookie contract. I want him, and
[25:08] Speaker 1: he can go get him like that. That's what I
[25:10] Speaker 1: don't think people completely understand about what Oklahoma Like. If
[25:13] Speaker 1: Oklahoma City said we want Giannis, they would win. If
[25:17] Speaker 1: Oklahoma City said we want Durant, they would win. If
[25:21] Speaker 1: fill in the blank superstar becomes disgruntled and they get
[25:25] Speaker 1: If the Mavericks were like, we're gonna hold a bidding
[25:28] Speaker 1: more for Luka Doncic and Sam Presty's like I want him,
[25:32] Speaker 1: they would win. They have more assets than everybody in
[25:34] Speaker 1: the league and it isn't particularly close. So I don't
[25:39] Speaker 1: know how he'll use the poker chips, but I know
[25:42] Speaker 1: that he's more likely than not going to be right.
[25:45] Speaker 1: He will prioritize young, cheap labor. And to your point,
[25:49] Speaker 1: he's not going to trade as many of the draft
[25:50] Speaker 1: picks as people think because he's excellent at drafting.
[25:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, the you know, I was thinking about this the
[25:57] Speaker 2: other day, as the is when people listen to this game,
[25:59] Speaker 2: one of the next will be over, and I thought,
[26:03] Speaker 2: I think Jalen Brunson has a chance to be the
[26:05] Speaker 2: most popular nick ever. So I'll explain the interesting that's
[26:09] Speaker 2: that's a thought. Any kid under thirty five didn't see
[26:14] Speaker 2: Walt Fraser play or Earl Monroe play. Eliminate those players.
[26:19] Speaker 2: The young, the young demographic which loves the NBA didn't
[26:21] Speaker 2: watch him play. Patrick Ewing's a center. They don't sell shoes,
[26:26] Speaker 2: they don't become coaches. They're just looked at as genetically
[26:30] Speaker 2: unique human beings. The greatest of all of them, Kareem
[26:34] Speaker 2: Abdul Jabbar was stoic, never a broadcaster, never really a coach,
[26:38] Speaker 2: didn't get opportunities. They don't become the most popular player.
[26:42] Speaker 2: Shack is a complete outlier because he's a big personality.
[26:45] Speaker 2: But Barkley is still the star of that show. And
[26:48] Speaker 2: then you say, well, Bernard King, nice guy. Injuries cut
[26:51] Speaker 2: short a great career. Carmelo Anthony never really delivered in
[26:55] Speaker 2: the postseason. Brunson is relatable. He's the size of the
[27:01] Speaker 2: average fan Villanova, soe you have found him in college?
[27:05] Speaker 2: He was he was an East Coast star at Villanova.
[27:08] Speaker 2: A lot of Villanova people in New York and big
[27:11] Speaker 2: Eiast fans in New York. Right, Oh yeah, he's totally reliant, relatable,
[27:16] Speaker 2: like he's he's a great clutch shot maker, which say
[27:21] Speaker 2: what you want that is, you know, fourth corner drives
[27:25] Speaker 2: make quarterbacks, and shot makers make Jordan. And the other
[27:31] Speaker 2: thing is the NBA now is moving into a time
[27:38] Speaker 2: you can't stack a roster, and so it's not a
[27:41] Speaker 2: coincidence the four best players on the four best teams
[27:45] Speaker 2: are all guards because if you don't have a stacked
[27:48] Speaker 2: roster and you have a collection of B to B
[27:50] Speaker 2: plus players, the point guard will control tempo and touches
[27:53] Speaker 2: for everybody and pace. The league is going to become
[27:57] Speaker 2: a pace, tempo point guard league. It's not gonna be
[28:01] Speaker 2: buying the best wings in centers. You can't anymore. You're
[28:05] Speaker 2: just not gonna have that anymore. Boston's gonna unravel here
[28:08] Speaker 2: in the next year, I mean, or at least move
[28:10] Speaker 2: off many of their players. Is that when you look
[28:13] Speaker 2: at Ewing, is a center nobody saw won't play if
[28:17] Speaker 2: you're under thirty seven years old. Bernard King injuries, Carmelo
[28:21] Speaker 2: Anthony never won. Brunson is going to be the most
[28:24] Speaker 2: popular Nick within thirty years. Okay, I mean, I'm not
[28:30] Speaker 2: a New York Knicks historian. Uh, it strikes me as
[28:35] Speaker 2: unlikely that he's gonna be more popular, because if you're
[28:39] Speaker 2: just saying, like, no one under thirty seven remembers Clyde Frasier,
[28:43] Speaker 2: it's like, okay, but there are a lot of people
[28:45] Speaker 2: over thirty seven, and he won two titles.
[28:48] Speaker 1: He's on the All NBA team at fifty, he's on
[28:51] Speaker 1: the All NBA team at seventy five. In terms of
[28:53] Speaker 1: you know, he's one of the greats in the history
[28:55] Speaker 1: of the league, and he's on their broadcasts like Clyde Frasier,
[29:02] Speaker 1: how he dresses, how he presents himself, like Knicks fans
[29:06] Speaker 1: who are young know who Clyde Frazer.
[29:08] Speaker 2: Okay, so I want to stop you there. Jerry West
[29:11] Speaker 2: was the logo built Laker championships and magic was more popular.
[29:19] Speaker 1: That's okay, But do you think that do you think
[29:23] Speaker 1: that the Knicks are going to win the title?
[29:25] Speaker 2: I think the Knicks under Brunson are going to be
[29:29] Speaker 2: a regular conference finals team with chances to get to
[29:33] Speaker 2: the finals. New York sports outside of the Yankees, historically
[29:36] Speaker 2: have been so uneven and so inconsistent. I mean, two
[29:39] Speaker 2: of the worst franchises in pro sports historically historically are
[29:43] Speaker 2: the Mets and the Jets, and so so you don't.
[29:47] Speaker 1: I mean, as the Knicks unite the city like New
[29:50] Speaker 1: York basketball, right, Like it's take a lot of pride.
[29:53] Speaker 1: The best point guards come from New York and Rucker
[29:56] Speaker 1: Park and all of the college and AAU teams and
[29:59] Speaker 1: all all of the New York basketball royalty stuff, which
[30:02] Speaker 1: I love and eat up. I'm like, there's a lot
[30:04] Speaker 1: about it in my book, like I'm all for all
[30:07] Speaker 1: of the history of New York basketball. I don't think
[30:11] Speaker 1: you can be the most popular Nick if you didn't
[30:13] Speaker 1: win a title. And I don't think they're gonna win
[30:16] Speaker 1: a title. I think Oklahoma City would wax them. And
[30:19] Speaker 1: this is a I guess, a hot take. Jalen Brunson
[30:24] Speaker 1: has become a Smedge overrated, a Smedge overrated because he
[30:28] Speaker 1: is crazy likable. Everything you said is true. He won
[30:33] Speaker 1: the Clutch Player of the Year. Yes, but when I'm
[30:35] Speaker 1: watching the games and I'm staying up late and I'm
[30:38] Speaker 1: watching all of the game, yes, I don't know how
[30:43] Speaker 1: sustainable this is. He's on it. He doesn't pass either
[30:49] Speaker 1: you or Carmelow. Okay, that that is true, so maybe
[30:53] Speaker 1: he fits right in. But like he listen, he hits
[30:56] Speaker 1: every clutch shot. He's totally unafraid. I get why he's
[30:59] Speaker 1: a fan fait, I get why he's loved. He deserved
[31:02] Speaker 1: clutch Player of the Year. He's a beloved nick. No
[31:05] Speaker 1: doubt about all of it. It's totally earned. The guy
[31:08] Speaker 1: is not afraid of any moment. He's tough as hell.
[31:11] Speaker 1: All of that is true. But yeah, he got Karl
[31:16] Speaker 1: Anthony Towns and mckel bridges and I'm watching the ends
[31:20] Speaker 1: of some of these games and he's like, well, Jalen Brunson,
[31:23] Speaker 1: he just took the last ten shots of the game,
[31:27] Speaker 1: except for one that Josh Hart got on an offensive
[31:30] Speaker 1: rebound on a miss by Jalen Brunson.
[31:32] Speaker 3: It just doesn't.
[31:33] Speaker 1: Strike me as a formula to win a championship. I
[31:36] Speaker 1: can't think of one where it's like one guy just
[31:41] Speaker 1: shoots every single time, no one is his peer at
[31:44] Speaker 1: the end of the game, and they're going to win
[31:46] Speaker 1: a title. It's exciting. It reminds They remind me a
[31:51] Speaker 1: lot of one of my favorite teams ever, the twenty
[31:54] Speaker 1: ten to twenty twelve Derreck Rose era Bulls right like
[31:59] Speaker 1: Tibbs is coach the now Derek Rose even more local
[32:04] Speaker 1: than Jalen Brunson, Chicago born and raised, like state championships
[32:08] Speaker 1: in high school, the whole thing. But like right, the
[32:10] Speaker 1: Bulls drafted Derek Rose, the Knicks trade for Brunson, So
[32:14] Speaker 1: it's not complete apples to apples, but it's it's close enough.
[32:17] Speaker 1: Best player is a ball dominant guard, team oriented. Those
[32:23] Speaker 1: Bulls teams were better defensively than this next team. But
[32:25] Speaker 1: I know the Knicks fans say, with Mitchell Robinson healthy,
[32:28] Speaker 1: they're actually an elite defensive team, even though they never
[32:30] Speaker 1: have been. But it's same coach, really hard nosed team,
[32:36] Speaker 1: beloved point guard who you ride or died with him,
[32:39] Speaker 1: and Derek Ross was unbelievable, youngest MVP in the history
[32:42] Speaker 1: of the league. They were the one seed and then
[32:44] Speaker 1: the only problem was he had to play Lebron James,
[32:48] Speaker 1: and so when he played Lebron, it was like, oh,
[32:50] Speaker 1: they won, game won, and then they lose in five.
[32:53] Speaker 1: And I think that's what's gonna happen to the Knicks.
[32:55] Speaker 1: Maybe not until they face the Thunder in the NBA Finals,
[32:58] Speaker 1: and so he'll advance a little further than those Bulls
[33:00] Speaker 1: teams did. But I don't think you can win an
[33:05] Speaker 1: NBA Championship this way. I just don't And I think
[33:08] Speaker 1: that you can't be the most popular nick of all
[33:10] Speaker 1: time if you don't put a banner up in Madison
[33:14] Speaker 1: Square Garden.
[33:15] Speaker 2: Well, I'm just more optimistic than you.
[33:17] Speaker 1: Perhaps you are, you are, I mean, I think they
[33:20] Speaker 1: would get crushed by the well I think. I think, yeah,
[33:23] Speaker 1: I think the thunder are going to win this championship
[33:25] Speaker 1: and people are somehow going to say that they hate them.
[33:28] Speaker 1: I don't know.
[33:28] Speaker 2: That's what I think is happening here. So I'm going
[33:30] Speaker 2: to throw this at you. There are some genetic and
[33:32] Speaker 2: gender realities that seem unfair to me. You're driving on
[33:36] Speaker 2: the freeway. You're driving on the freeway. Be totally honest.
[33:40] Speaker 2: If a skinny guy is in a car eating he's
[33:44] Speaker 2: got burgers, you're thinking to yourself, that guy's on the go,
[33:47] Speaker 2: he doesn't have time to stop. That guy is a hustler,
[33:50] Speaker 2: he is making things happen. A heavyset guy in a
[33:54] Speaker 2: car is eating burgers, You're like, and I am too. Oh, really,
[33:59] Speaker 2: you can't even drive without eating. I mean, give me
[34:02] Speaker 2: a break, Like, what, Well, you can't. You can't pull over?
[34:05] Speaker 1: You have to. It's a.
[34:07] Speaker 2: It's a we have no idea about those two people.
[34:11] Speaker 2: That is how people view Wait, we're all watists at times.
[34:16] Speaker 2: Gender gender.
[34:17] Speaker 1: I'm not saying no to your premise, you Colin, I can't.
[34:20] Speaker 1: I love your analogies. Go ahead, here's whatever. There's a
[34:22] Speaker 1: gender reality. Men can hate each other.
[34:26] Speaker 2: Jordan still holds a grudge against Isaiah. Somehow it makes
[34:30] Speaker 2: him more likable. Men can taunt, can trash talk. If
[34:37] Speaker 2: Angel Reese appears to hate Caitlin Clark, it becomes a
[34:42] Speaker 2: race topic. It is outrageous, It is unfair, and I'm
[34:46] Speaker 2: like time out. Women athletes can hate rifles too.
[34:53] Speaker 1: It's not to me.
[34:54] Speaker 2: I'm like, is it race?
[34:56] Speaker 1: Well? I hate?
[35:00] Speaker 2: Is it used to be a commodity? Like you loved
[35:04] Speaker 2: when the writer cup we hated the years. Now everybody's rich,
[35:09] Speaker 2: but the Caitlyn Clark Angel Reese rivalry. One got the
[35:13] Speaker 2: best of the other in college the junior year. The
[35:15] Speaker 2: other one got the best the senior year. One goes Midwest,
[35:18] Speaker 2: small city, one goes big city. One gets more press.
[35:21] Speaker 2: I just I look at it and I think it
[35:23] Speaker 2: doesn't bother me that Angel Reese doesn't like Caitlin like
[35:27] Speaker 2: like by the way Caitlyn's game is fun and flashy.
[35:30] Speaker 2: Angels a rebounder like she probably got a little built
[35:33] Speaker 2: in animosity. She won't get the press.
[35:38] Speaker 1: I think it's the worst story in sports media. I
[35:41] Speaker 1: hate the discourse around it. I think I think it's
[35:44] Speaker 1: I think it brings out the worst in everybody. I
[35:47] Speaker 1: really do think it's it's just show a lot of
[35:50] Speaker 1: people are showing their ass on this story. Of course,
[35:54] Speaker 1: what you just said is correct. I one of my
[35:57] Speaker 1: things to trope. It's a cliche.
[36:00] Speaker 3: I've just I like the turn of phrase that I created.
[36:03] Speaker 3: Less hate in the world, more hate in sports.
[36:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, sports hate is good. It is objectively good. Now
[36:12] Speaker 1: when it leads to like fights in the stands, Okay, fine,
[36:15] Speaker 1: someone took it too far, but that doesn't mean that
[36:18] Speaker 1: it is a bad thing. Trash talk, rivalries, bulletin board material, lobbying,
[36:26] Speaker 1: shots in the press, hard fouls, stare downs, the occasional fight.
[36:31] Speaker 3: Those things are good.
[36:34] Speaker 1: They're good for ratings, they're good for business, they're good
[36:36] Speaker 1: for fan interest, they're good for jersey sales. They are good.
[36:39] Speaker 1: It is good for the WNBA for there to be
[36:43] Speaker 1: sports hate, yes, for there to be rivalry, yes, it
[36:45] Speaker 1: is a good thing that is so objectively obviously true
[36:50] Speaker 1: that I can't believe anyone even dares to deny it.
[36:54] Speaker 1: I do think the bird magic stuff is a little
[36:58] Speaker 1: ridiculous because Burden Magic, in terms of talents, were kind
[37:04] Speaker 1: of equals. Yes, yes, this is more like Michael Jordan
[37:07] Speaker 1: and Bill Lambier. You know they were rivals, but yeah,
[37:15] Speaker 1: but they're not really the same type of player, right.
[37:18] Speaker 1: They hated each other, they had great moments, but they
[37:22] Speaker 1: were not like no one was like, you know, who
[37:24] Speaker 1: carried the NBA to popularity, Michael Jordan and Bill Lambier.
[37:29] Speaker 1: It was not not how we just got Caitlyn Clark
[37:33] Speaker 1: is the phenomenon, She's the comments and like that. Does
[37:36] Speaker 1: that spur jealousy, no doubt. Are there interesting racial components
[37:44] Speaker 1: to that story that.
[37:46] Speaker 3: I think are fair to be discussed.
[37:48] Speaker 1: For a league that has had great players white and
[37:51] Speaker 1: black before Caitlyn Clark, why haven't they caught on in
[37:54] Speaker 1: the same type of way? Like I think that there
[37:56] Speaker 1: is like fair conversations to be had there. But a
[38:01] Speaker 1: hard foul by Angel Reese in a basketball game that
[38:06] Speaker 1: like didn't even result in a fight, It resulted in
[38:11] Speaker 1: she said the F word, Like, what the hell is
[38:15] Speaker 1: the matter with people? Not like I mean, it's it's embarrassing,
[38:20] Speaker 1: Like and the we don't need to name the names.
[38:24] Speaker 3: Everyone knows. The discourse of.
[38:25] Speaker 1: You know who's going like you're talking about people's wives
[38:30] Speaker 1: and you're making it personal and then you're bringing all
[38:33] Speaker 1: these just shut up, shut up. It's just so it's
[38:37] Speaker 1: so beneath the industry to like take the discourse of online.
[38:43] Speaker 1: You are amazing at not being too online. I give
[38:45] Speaker 1: you a ton of credit for it. Nick Nick right,
[38:48] Speaker 1: it's amazing how he doesn't read his mentions. I still
[38:52] Speaker 1: am addicted to my phone. I still read my mentions.
[38:54] Speaker 1: I have gotten much much, much much and much better
[38:57] Speaker 1: about not letting it bother me and not responding. But
[39:01] Speaker 1: it is so very clear that way too many people
[39:04] Speaker 1: in our industry formulate their opinions based on the algorithm
[39:10] Speaker 1: that they see on X And it's just complete horseshit.
[39:15] Speaker 1: Like I don't believe that people that go to that
[39:18] Speaker 1: basketball game left being like, you know what, that was
[39:23] Speaker 1: a race war a basketball Like, you know, I'm not
[39:29] Speaker 1: like I it's crazy and I'm not the biggest WNBA fan.
[39:33] Speaker 1: I'm not claiming to have WNBA bona fides, or like
[39:36] Speaker 1: watching for years, or like going ten deep on all
[39:39] Speaker 1: the rosters. So people like Parkins, I don't give a
[39:41] Speaker 1: shit about your WNBA takes. That's fine. I just know
[39:44] Speaker 1: sports and narratives that is a good thing for business,
[39:49] Speaker 1: and people taking their online commentary that is designed to
[39:56] Speaker 1: divide us and then making it actually like in form
[40:00] Speaker 1: their sports opinions on television when they are multi millionaire
[40:03] Speaker 1: former professional athletes. They don't even realize what they're doing.
[40:07] Speaker 1: But it's just very embarrassing if I really do find
[40:10] Speaker 1: it embarrassing.
[40:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's my take. My take on Caitlin Clark and
[40:17] Speaker 2: Angel Reese from the beginning is the league was growing,
[40:21] Speaker 2: but she's Taylor Swift and tennis shoes. She's not doesn't
[40:25] Speaker 2: have to be the best player in the league. Taylor
[40:27] Speaker 2: Swift doesn't have the best voice. Adele does like like
[40:30] Speaker 2: she doesn't have the best voice. There's some there's some
[40:33] Speaker 2: visceral connection between young women, middle aged women and Taylor
[40:37] Speaker 2: Swift that I can't explain. I'm usually good at listening
[40:40] Speaker 2: to music or watching sports and going that's a superstar.
[40:44] Speaker 2: I didn't see it with Taylor Swift. There's been Lady Gaga,
[40:47] Speaker 2: I connected, there have been, there have been a lot
[40:52] Speaker 2: of artists. Adele the first time. Yeah, when I heard
[40:55] Speaker 2: Katy Perry, I was but like Adele. When I heard
[40:57] Speaker 2: Adele was like, holy shit, what is that? That's Lady
[41:01] Speaker 2: Gaga did that to me. I remember Garth Brooks years
[41:04] Speaker 2: and years ago, hearing him and going it was like
[41:07] Speaker 2: new country. It wasn't like you know, old and my
[41:10] Speaker 2: dog and my porch. It was like cool country. And
[41:12] Speaker 2: I'm like Shanaiah Twain. I'm usually pretty good at spotting
[41:15] Speaker 2: stuff and going bang the Taylor Swift up. I can't
[41:18] Speaker 2: even explain it. Now, she's got she got a nice voice,
[41:21] Speaker 2: she's really smart, but I can't explain it. Caitlin Clark's
[41:25] Speaker 2: not that hard to explain. Holy shit, she's taking shots
[41:29] Speaker 2: that NBA players wouldn't take. She I said, she's Steph
[41:35] Speaker 2: Curry plus Jason Kidd, the sixty foot passes, the thirty
[41:38] Speaker 2: foot bombs. You're like half the NBA would not make
[41:43] Speaker 2: those plays. She's a comment because it doesn't look like
[41:47] Speaker 2: anything else.
[41:48] Speaker 3: Right, of course, if a player in five years started
[41:53] Speaker 3: dunking like Anthony Edwards, like we'd.
[41:57] Speaker 1: Be like, oh my god, right, so bull because we
[42:00] Speaker 1: haven't seen it in the in the WNBA, right, So yeah,
[42:04] Speaker 1: I think that part of it is also very obvious.
[42:07] Speaker 3: She's the Steph curization.
[42:10] Speaker 1: Of basketball has hit women's basketball in a way and
[42:15] Speaker 1: at a moment. And you and I have talked about
[42:16] Speaker 1: this months ago now, like listen, part of this is ESPN,
[42:22] Speaker 1: which the world is changing, Cable is changing, fine, it
[42:25] Speaker 1: is still the behemoth of sports television. They promote the
[42:31] Speaker 1: shit out of it. Yeah that helps, Like real talented analysts,
[42:39] Speaker 1: real talented broadcasters. Real they're not on ESPN News like
[42:45] Speaker 1: they're in good time slots on good networks on ABC
[42:48] Speaker 1: on ESPN in primetime on weeknights with a real pregame
[42:52] Speaker 1: show and a real postgame show and a real play
[42:54] Speaker 1: by play guy, and they do a good job on
[42:56] Speaker 1: college hoops and so they I think they're invested in
[42:59] Speaker 1: it and it's a cyclical thing and they hit this
[43:03] Speaker 1: phenomenon like the fact that that game there was a
[43:06] Speaker 1: blowout outrated Yankees Red Sox. That matters, like that, that matters,
[43:16] Speaker 1: and so I just yeah, I mean, all the respect
[43:20] Speaker 1: in the world to her talent, all the respect in
[43:23] Speaker 1: the world to like people who have been WNBA fans
[43:26] Speaker 1: for forever and have been like now get to say
[43:28] Speaker 1: I told you so. But I just I wish our
[43:32] Speaker 1: media colleagues realized a little bit better that they were
[43:36] Speaker 1: being played by the algorithm. Because they're all athletes. They
[43:41] Speaker 1: can't possibly be offended by that foul. They can't. It's
[43:45] Speaker 1: it's impossible that a bunch of football players are were
[43:50] Speaker 1: so offended by that foul that they had to make
[43:54] Speaker 1: this big of a deal out of it. So I
[43:56] Speaker 1: just eventually they'll need to talk about the bad basketball.
[44:00] Speaker 1: And I think for some people it's just easier to
[44:03] Speaker 1: culture war everything, and I think it's unfortunate.
[44:09] Speaker 2: Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to
[44:11] Speaker 2: them is the right thing to do. So, you know
[44:13] Speaker 2: Degree cool Rush deodorant right, Well, last year they changed
[44:16] Speaker 2: the formula and it did not go over well with
[44:19] Speaker 2: their fans. So Degrees the whole thing is it turns
[44:22] Speaker 2: up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up
[44:24] Speaker 2: the effort, and good thing it does, because cool Rush
[44:27] Speaker 2: fans really turned up the effort to bring the original
[44:29] Speaker 2: formula back. One guy even started an online petition and
[44:32] Speaker 2: Degree listened they admitted they ft up. They're bringing back
[44:35] Speaker 2: the original cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and
[44:37] Speaker 2: it's exactly how you remember it, cool, crisp and fresh.
[44:39] Speaker 2: It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for
[44:43] Speaker 2: under four dollars. There's a reason that's been the number
[44:45] Speaker 2: one men's anti perspirant for the last decade. It's the
[44:47] Speaker 2: same reason why people were not happy when it changed.
[44:50] Speaker 2: So if you've never tried it, it might be a
[44:51] Speaker 2: good time to see what the fuss is about. Head
[44:53] Speaker 2: to your local Walmart Target and try the og degree
[44:57] Speaker 2: cool Rush for yourself. So I am. I was surprised
[45:10] Speaker 2: by the result on the tush push vote. So I
[45:16] Speaker 2: was surprised. So I've stated before that two things matter
[45:20] Speaker 2: to the NFL in no particular order, entertainment and safety.
[45:25] Speaker 2: Put them in the order you want. This breaks. Yeah,
[45:28] Speaker 2: I think I think your order is correct, and this
[45:32] Speaker 2: violates both. It's ugly television and it looks like it's
[45:37] Speaker 2: going to get somebody hurt. And Cam Chancellor used to
[45:41] Speaker 2: jump over kicking teams to block kicks. There was no
[45:43] Speaker 2: data that people were getting hurt, but the NFL is, like,
[45:47] Speaker 2: you know, it looks kind of dangerous. We're going to
[45:51] Speaker 2: ban it now. Kickoffs there's data, there's more concussions. They've
[45:55] Speaker 2: changed it, the horse callar tackle, there's data it's hurting players.
[46:00] Speaker 2: But Cam Chancellor jumping over the lines, there was no
[46:03] Speaker 2: data that players were just falling to the ground. They didn't.
[46:07] Speaker 2: They just thought in this day and age, it looks
[46:10] Speaker 2: like people can get hurt. So that's my thing. With
[46:13] Speaker 2: a tush push. It's bad TV, but it does look
[46:16] Speaker 2: like kind of it's not really healthy. I contend it
[46:21] Speaker 2: passed for one reason, and it's the same reason. Sometimes
[46:25] Speaker 2: you'll be flying through TikTok and somebody will catch your attention.
[46:30] Speaker 2: Tony Robbins is the first in our lifetime that did
[46:33] Speaker 2: it regularly. He could captivate you with a rant, I'm
[46:36] Speaker 2: gonna make you a better person. You're like, who's this
[46:39] Speaker 2: guy on late night infomercials with fran Tarkenton like forty
[46:42] Speaker 2: years ago, and he's made an industry of it now.
[46:45] Speaker 2: There's copycats everywhere, but there are these people that are
[46:47] Speaker 2: highly performative. Gordon Ramsey, you know Tony Robbins, and there
[46:53] Speaker 2: aren't all walks of life to some degree. You and
[46:55] Speaker 2: I do that for a living. There are politicians that
[46:57] Speaker 2: are very performative, and I think Jason Kelsey's the reason
[47:01] Speaker 2: it stayed. I think he's kind of a Midwest grinder,
[47:06] Speaker 2: salt of the earth, huge brand, totally respected. Owners in
[47:10] Speaker 2: this league have listened to players for a long time.
[47:14] Speaker 2: They do. They listen to the players, and there are
[47:16] Speaker 2: certain players they really like. They like the tough guys
[47:19] Speaker 2: in the trenches. And I think he got reportedly got
[47:22] Speaker 2: in front of the owners and he sold them on it,
[47:25] Speaker 2: and I think he flipped about four of them. And
[47:28] Speaker 2: I think he was he was an influencer. He had
[47:31] Speaker 2: the ability to literally galvanize these guys on them because
[47:35] Speaker 2: you know, ten, we're not going to ban it. Ten
[47:39] Speaker 2: were absolutely and like anything else, Danny, there's a third
[47:43] Speaker 2: of the league just sitting there thinking, I don't know,
[47:45] Speaker 2: what's Jerry doing, what's Kronky doing, what's Craft doing. I
[47:48] Speaker 2: think Kelsey's the reason it stays.
[47:51] Speaker 1: I think that that's totally reasonable, and I'm sure there
[47:53] Speaker 1: will be reporting from the meetings on the vote that
[47:57] Speaker 1: might very well indicate that you're right. I would only
[48:00] Speaker 1: quibble a little bit with your phrasing of like it
[48:03] Speaker 1: passed the vote was to ban it, and they needed
[48:07] Speaker 1: twenty four votes to ban it, and twenty two voted
[48:10] Speaker 1: to ban it. Right right, majority of the league. The
[48:15] Speaker 1: majority of the league did. They just didn't get the
[48:18] Speaker 1: super majority that they needed. Right. Well over fifty percent
[48:22] Speaker 1: wanted it gone, they just didn't get to the seventy
[48:24] Speaker 1: five percent threshold. I think that some of the discourse
[48:27] Speaker 1: around this because there isn't data yet on players.
[48:31] Speaker 3: I agree with you, it looks like it, but there
[48:34] Speaker 3: is not data on it.
[48:37] Speaker 1: Jason Delci actually before he came into a lot before it,
[48:39] Speaker 1: had spoken to how much it did feel like it
[48:42] Speaker 1: beat him up, So you know, I think he was
[48:44] Speaker 1: doing the Eagles as solid there. Frankly, to me, the
[48:48] Speaker 1: only argument that should matter is that it's bad television.
[48:52] Speaker 1: That's the only argument that should matter. They banned the
[48:55] Speaker 1: shift in baseball not because it was bad strategy to
[48:59] Speaker 1: deploy a shift, because they didn't want to see Kyle
[49:02] Speaker 1: Schwarber come to the plate rip a ball that would
[49:06] Speaker 1: be a double and instead it's an out. So they
[49:09] Speaker 1: banned it. In the NBA, they're like, you know, it's
[49:12] Speaker 1: not great if you can just stand there in the
[49:18] Speaker 1: lane for ten seconds and clog up everything, three second violation.
[49:23] Speaker 1: They banned it for the good of the game, for
[49:26] Speaker 1: the good of the sport, for the good of the flow,
[49:27] Speaker 1: for the good of offense, for the watch ability of
[49:30] Speaker 1: the product.
[49:30] Speaker 3: We do this all the time in sports.
[49:33] Speaker 1: And I know that Eagles fans took it personally because
[49:37] Speaker 1: they were the best at and they created it. But
[49:39] Speaker 1: I thought what aj Brown said just yesterday was the
[49:42] Speaker 1: right thing. He's like, I'm not concerned about it. It's
[49:43] Speaker 1: a yard. Do we really think that the biggest offensive
[49:48] Speaker 1: line in the NFL, with the strongest quarterback in the NFL,
[49:51] Speaker 1: with the best running back in the NFL is all
[49:53] Speaker 1: of a sudden not going to win the Super Bowl
[49:55] Speaker 1: because their gimmicky rugby play now has to just be
[49:59] Speaker 1: an old school quarterback sneak that.
[50:01] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, by the way, tom Brady was.
[50:03] Speaker 1: Excellent at Like, if Tom Brady can sneak for a yard,
[50:08] Speaker 1: not a great athlete compared to Jalen ERTs. I think
[50:11] Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts would be just fine without the tush push.
[50:14] Speaker 1: So I thought that Philly fans should go the other
[50:16] Speaker 1: way with this. Yeah, we created something, and now you
[50:20] Speaker 1: said we're too good at it, and we won a
[50:22] Speaker 1: super Bowl and you're gonna ban it. Yeah, that's on you.
[50:26] Speaker 1: We'll win a super Bowl without it, and just like
[50:29] Speaker 1: and like take it as like a source of pride. Instead,
[50:31] Speaker 1: they got very defensive and you're trying to take away
[50:33] Speaker 1: our play and you're making this just about you. I'm like,
[50:36] Speaker 1: I swear to you if it was the Bears who
[50:39] Speaker 1: invented it, I'd be like, that's stupid. It's a dull.
[50:43] Speaker 1: In the in the NFC Championship game, a referee had
[50:46] Speaker 1: to get on a loud speaker and be like, if
[50:48] Speaker 1: you jump over the line of scrimmage one more time,
[50:50] Speaker 1: I'm just gonna award them a touchdown.
[50:53] Speaker 3: That is dumb.
[50:55] Speaker 1: And then with the Bills did it in the ANFC
[50:57] Speaker 1: Championship game, the spot of the ball. We have four
[51:03] Speaker 1: hundred HD cameras and everyone's like, where's the ball? We
[51:07] Speaker 1: couldn't tell because there's twenty people swarming to it. So
[51:11] Speaker 1: I just I think it's just objectively uninteresting and I
[51:15] Speaker 1: don't like the whole point of sports is that it's unpredictable,
[51:18] Speaker 1: that you don't know what's coming. If every time you
[51:23] Speaker 1: get in that formation, and I know Philly fencer, like, well,
[51:26] Speaker 1: one time we faked out of it. Okay, If ninety
[51:30] Speaker 1: nine percent of the time you get in that formation,
[51:33] Speaker 1: the exact same thing happens, it's not good television. That
[51:37] Speaker 1: should be enough reason for it to be banned. But
[51:40] Speaker 1: you know whatever, Okay, So you know, I just I
[51:44] Speaker 1: was passionate about it because I thought it was a
[51:47] Speaker 1: you're a good arguer, You tell me what we think
[51:49] Speaker 1: about this. What is to stop someone from doing it?
[51:57] Speaker 1: First and ten from the thirty. Just take the guy
[52:01] Speaker 1: in the in the world who has the strongest legs,
[52:05] Speaker 1: make him your backup quarterback, put him under center, second
[52:11] Speaker 1: and seven, third and four, fourth and two, first and ten,
[52:19] Speaker 1: second and eight, third and five, fourth and two, first
[52:25] Speaker 1: and ten, and just rugby their way down the field. Well,
[52:29] Speaker 1: it probably won't happen, but normally slippery slope arguments suck.
[52:35] Speaker 1: But I honestly do think that if you allow something
[52:38] Speaker 1: like this to like really gain steam and everybody starts
[52:40] Speaker 1: working on it, like the next iteration of the tush push,
[52:44] Speaker 1: everyone's gonna be like, oh, that's taking it too far. Well,
[52:47] Speaker 1: then you got to outlaw it. Now.
[52:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's such a it's such a beating
[52:51] Speaker 2: in your offensive lineman. I don't think you would do
[52:53] Speaker 2: that unless I think it used. The scarcity of it
[53:00] Speaker 2: is really valuable for even the team that's successful, because
[53:03] Speaker 2: it's just beating the hell out of your offensive line.
[53:05] Speaker 2: I could see that happening in crappy weather. Saquon Barkley
[53:09] Speaker 2: gets hurt and you've got to burn five plays that
[53:13] Speaker 2: I can see happening. But it is. It is a
[53:15] Speaker 2: beat down. It's like the wildcat. The wildcat sounded great,
[53:21] Speaker 2: but if you have a good quarterback, it would piss
[53:24] Speaker 2: him off if you kept snapping to the full back
[53:27] Speaker 2: like it wasn't good for the room. Right, I could
[53:33] Speaker 2: see Drew bledsoell, okay, what's the point?
[53:36] Speaker 1: Right? They stink. As soon as he heard the aj
[53:40] Speaker 1: Brown quote of being like, yeah, I don't care, it's
[53:42] Speaker 1: just one yard, he was immediately like a typical receiver.
[53:45] Speaker 1: He just wants a fade. He just wants a fade
[53:48] Speaker 1: from the one yard line to get more touchdowns. He
[53:50] Speaker 1: hates that the balls never going to him. But yeah,
[53:54] Speaker 1: I mean, I I think eventually someone will get hurt,
[53:59] Speaker 1: or too many teams will do it, h and this
[54:02] Speaker 1: will be up for a vote again. In a year
[54:04] Speaker 1: or two or three, and it'll it'll get banned. But
[54:07] Speaker 1: you know, we got we got another year of rugby
[54:09] Speaker 1: on zero point five percent of our plays in the NFL. Okay,
[54:13] Speaker 1: So I.
[54:13] Speaker 2: Want to end with this, So you would and I
[54:16] Speaker 2: would admit this too. I've moved around the country. People
[54:18] Speaker 2: know that generally when I move around the country, the
[54:22] Speaker 2: only sports team that I tend to. It's hard because
[54:25] Speaker 2: I love football so much. When I lived in Tampa,
[54:27] Speaker 2: I was kind of a Bucks fan. I grew up
[54:29] Speaker 2: in the Northwest. I was a Seahawks fan. I live
[54:32] Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. I'm a Ram and Charger fan. I
[54:34] Speaker 2: try not to be a Homer on the air, but
[54:36] Speaker 2: it's it's I know people in the front office. I
[54:38] Speaker 2: have contacts there. Now I moved to Chicago, I've already
[54:40] Speaker 2: got connections with the Bears, right, So I'm talking to
[54:42] Speaker 2: people and so and you grew up here, So I
[54:45] Speaker 2: under I've always understood that Bill Simmons loves the Celtics,
[54:48] Speaker 2: You're gonna love your teams. I get it right, like
[54:50] Speaker 2: like in the audience understands that you're still objective. But
[54:53] Speaker 2: I said this this week on the show on FS one.
[54:56] Speaker 2: I said, I'm gonna take five quarterbacks that we that
[55:02] Speaker 2: we would, We're not gonna I'm not going to take
[55:03] Speaker 2: a Justin Herbert overrated, Jalen Hurts underrated. I'm not going
[55:07] Speaker 2: to take guys on the fringe. I'm going to take
[55:09] Speaker 2: Andrew Luck, Jadeen Daniels, Joe Burrow. Who else did I take?
[55:14] Speaker 1: C J.
[55:15] Speaker 2: Stroud? I took somebody else. I took five of them,
[55:17] Speaker 2: And I said, and I didn't take Mahomes. I took
[55:20] Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson. So I said, let's get Mahomes Allen out. Okay,
[55:23] Speaker 2: they're like historically great, like, So I took five guys
[55:26] Speaker 2: that none of us are going to argue they're all great.
[55:29] Speaker 2: How long once they had a competent coach did it
[55:33] Speaker 2: take for you to go, oh shit? There as a
[55:37] Speaker 2: franchise guy?
[55:38] Speaker 1: So C J.
[55:39] Speaker 2: Stroud did not throw an interception until week six, pretty
[55:43] Speaker 2: obvious he was different. Lamar Jackson won six of US
[55:47] Speaker 2: verse seven, and by the second game you were wondering
[55:50] Speaker 2: if he was even faster than Michael Vick. He was electric.
[55:53] Speaker 2: Joe Burrow weeks two and three is throwing for three
[55:56] Speaker 2: hundred and fifty yards behind and absolutely atrocious offs of
[56:00] Speaker 2: line with a coach nobody liked Jaden Daniels Week's two,
[56:03] Speaker 2: three and four. He's completing like twenty eight of thirty one.
[56:06] Speaker 2: You're like, okay, this is a cheat code. What is
[56:09] Speaker 2: going on? And Joe and So I went down and
[56:12] Speaker 2: through all of them. So now I bring you to
[56:16] Speaker 2: Caleb Williams. So yeah again, golf with Jeff Fisher Goff
[56:22] Speaker 2: with McVeigh by. Week two, he's throwing for three hundred
[56:26] Speaker 2: and fifty yards. You're like, oh, Jared Goff can play. Yeah,
[56:28] Speaker 2: he's he's beating Mahomes in a shootout on Monday Night football.
[56:31] Speaker 2: You're like, you know, pretty early in his career. You're like, oh, yeah, this,
[56:35] Speaker 2: this dude can play. So first week so my take
[56:40] Speaker 2: is good, not great, is hard to spot, real deal
[56:48] Speaker 2: and sucks jumps off the page. So week one, Caleb
[56:55] Speaker 2: Williams faces Brian Flore is at home perfect weather. Let's
[57:00] Speaker 2: say he struggles. Ryan Flores has been punitive to young
[57:05] Speaker 2: quarterbacks and Caleb Williams is bad. What is your take?
[57:13] Speaker 1: I won't be handling you well. I'll tell you that
[57:17] Speaker 1: I won't be handling well. He needs to be very
[57:23] Speaker 1: good right away. Hey, here's the thing. Obviously, I watched
[57:28] Speaker 1: every down of the Bears last year and have for
[57:32] Speaker 1: my entire life. He is good. He's good. Now. It
[57:40] Speaker 1: was not easy, it was not always pretty, but I
[57:45] Speaker 1: trust my eye test. Here. If you get sacked sixty
[57:49] Speaker 1: eight times and still have better than a three to
[57:53] Speaker 1: one touchdown the interception ratio, and your play caller got
[57:57] Speaker 1: fired nine games in your season, and then you fire
[58:02] Speaker 1: your coach and you had controversy, and you lost on
[58:06] Speaker 1: a Hail Mary, and you had all of that hype
[58:08] Speaker 1: and that scrutiny, and the guy who was drafted behind
[58:11] Speaker 1: you is having a historic rookie year and goes all
[58:14] Speaker 1: the way to the NFC Championship game, and you get
[58:16] Speaker 1: your ass kicked and you play all seventeen games and
[58:20] Speaker 1: like you're still standing at.
[58:21] Speaker 2: The end of it.
[58:23] Speaker 1: You don't suck like like bat you said, like good bad,
[58:27] Speaker 1: it's a little He's not bad, right, He's not bad.
[58:31] Speaker 1: I'm not worried about bad. It's I still think the
[58:35] Speaker 1: guy's ceiling can be MVP of the league. Okay, Like
[58:38] Speaker 1: I still think greatness is very likely an outcome here.
[58:44] Speaker 1: But yeah, Week one, Minnesota, Monday Night foot we too,
[58:47] Speaker 1: bet Don gets his ole team. Yeah, yeah, I mean no,
[58:52] Speaker 1: I will say this. I will say this. It seems
[58:55] Speaker 1: like forty percent of the years in the last like decade,
[58:59] Speaker 1: the Bears have opened with the packers. I know that's
[59:01] Speaker 1: not actually accurate, but it feels that way. That's the
[59:06] Speaker 1: absolute worst. Any Bears fan will tell you Bear's Packers.
[59:11] Speaker 1: It just is like a different thing. All of our
[59:14] Speaker 1: families have some packers people in it, like, and for
[59:17] Speaker 1: me it was extreme. My dad's entire family was from Wisconsin.
[59:20] Speaker 1: Like you just you're in weddings with these people, you
[59:23] Speaker 1: work with these people, your neighbors with these people. Like
[59:26] Speaker 1: my old radio station signal like reaches far into Wisconsin,
[59:30] Speaker 1: like you could hear it in Milwaukee. So like it's
[59:32] Speaker 1: just like Bear's Packers Week one is too stressful, there's
[59:36] Speaker 1: too many grand Like I can handle Bears Vikings week one.
[59:39] Speaker 1: I can handle Bears Lions Week one, Bear's Packers. If
[59:43] Speaker 1: Caleb Williams would come out week one and get out
[59:46] Speaker 1: played by Jordan Love and they would lose and he'd
[59:50] Speaker 1: throw like two picks, that's just like Sky's falling type stuff.
[59:54] Speaker 1: So I think I can handle Bears Vikings on Monday
[59:57] Speaker 1: Night Football Week one. But if he's terrible, I'm not
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: gonna be handling you. Well I'm not. It's gonna be
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: tough to be neutral. I'll be totally honest with you.
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: That's gonna be unfortunate. Yeah, but he's great. Oh deep
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: dish beets on TV for everybody.
[1:00:15] Speaker 2: No, I saw that first game and I went, oh, god, Flores,
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: what a nightmare. Flores just eats.
[1:00:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a great spot. But but again, like,
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: but it can go the other way. Put up thirty,
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: put up thirty. We never mentioned Shane Waldron's name in
[1:00:33] Speaker 1: Chicago ever again, you know what I mean, Like, wasted
[1:00:37] Speaker 1: rookie year? Why did you hire Eve? Why didn't you
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: blow it all up and start fresh with Kate? Like
[1:00:43] Speaker 1: put up thirty week one and all of your sins
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: are forgiven and we're good. Yeah.
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: You know the airthing, Danny, that that wasn't true years ago.
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: There's so many good young offensive coaches now in the
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: NFL that it used to be if your first coach
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: didn't work, you were screwed. But like Gino Darnold Baker
[1:01:01] Speaker 2: to ahead Brian Flores then he was a pro bowler,
[1:01:05] Speaker 2: Gobb's first year was not only unremarkable, it was unrecognizable.
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: So the truth is now there are multiple examples. Sam
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: Darnold's a totally different player. It used to be there
[1:01:16] Speaker 2: were like four or five offensive guys that were next level,
[1:01:20] Speaker 2: Like every other staff has the next Ben Johnson or
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: an offensive coach. So I mean, god, look at I mean,
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: you go to the AFC alone, it's like, oh, there's
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: Andy Reid, and oh there's Sean Payton, and there's Jim
[1:01:32] Speaker 2: Harbaugh in this and Chip Kelly in the same division.
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: You have those four coaches on staff. So I think
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: we've gotten to a point where if you have a
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: Mulligan season, it just I mean, nobody remembers Goff's first
[1:01:47] Speaker 2: season he was oh and seven. I think it just disappears.
[1:01:50] Speaker 1: Listen. I mean in Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence showed enough through
[1:01:54] Speaker 1: multiple failed coaches that they still gave them a quarter
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: of a billion dollar contract. They hit on Ryan Thomas
[1:02:00] Speaker 1: last year, they draft Travis Hunter. This year, they hire
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: Liam Cohen to be their coach, who was a big
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: part of Baker Mayfield's success in Tampa, being as consistently
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: great on offense as they've been like he's in your five,
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: Like does Trevor Lawrence enraged me? And way too many
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: fumbles and rinzone interception then yet no doubt, Like I
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: think that like selling stock on, Trevor Lawrence has been
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: totally reasonable, Like his career is not over right, you
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: know it's his career is not over If if Liam
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: Cohen could do that with Baker, it's definitely on the
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: board that Trevor Lawrence turns this thing around, yeah and
[1:02:42] Speaker 1: rips off five, six, seven really good years and changes
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: the complete narrative his career. But now listen, I think
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: it's still much more likely than not that Caleb Williams
[1:02:50] Speaker 1: is great than he is mediocre.
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: Danny Parkins FS one love him on the volume stops
[1:02:57] Speaker 2: by about once twice a month. As Alas this was great,
[1:02:59] Speaker 2: Thanks buddy, Yeah, this was fun.
[1:03:01] Speaker 1: Thanks going anytime the volume

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