# Colin Cowherd Podcast - Eagles Face TOUGH Roster Decisions, Will Cowboys Draft a QB? Deebo Trade, Jimmy Johnson’s Legacy

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 4 Mar 2025, 59 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/090ba381-726a-4760-9950-b2960026592a/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL! They start with Matthew Stafford deciding to stay in LA, debate whether the Rams asking price of a 1st round pick was too steep, and explain why Stafford would be crazy to leave the Rams in pursuit of more money (2:45). They discuss the pending roster cuts the Eagles are facing after their Super Bowl win and debate whether the Eagles should keep linebacker Zack Baun or wide receiver A.J. Brown or cut/trade both in order to keep their dominant offensive and defensive lines intact (10:30). They talk about how the infusion of NIL money has changed the game when drafting “celebrity quarterbacks” from college and why it’s given more leverage to prospects, and whether Shedeur Sanders could overplay his hand in that environment (17:30). They discuss Jerry Jones’ skipping his typical press conference at the combine after the Deebo Samuel to the Commanders move, why Dak’s contract will sink America’s Team and why Dallas might draft a quarterback in an early round (28:45). They break down why the ambiguity surrounding Sam Darnold’s future is just the Vikings doing Sam a “solid” after a great season, and predict the Vikings will end up rolling with J.J. McCarthy (38:00). They discuss the top quarterback prospects and why their landing spot will matter and compare them to recent prospects with tremendous physical gifts like Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson, and why those types of prospects rarely hit (41:15). They talk about the legacy of Jimmy Johnson after announcing his retirement from broadcasting at FOX and why as both a coach and broadcaster, he’s had a lasting impact on the NFL (50:00). Finally, Colin addresses the “California Haters” ahead of his move to Chicago and asks John about his move out of California to Arizona, whether he has any regrets and whether the state will have to make changes in order to continue being an engine of innovation (1:00:45). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd #3andOut See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: The volume. All right, we're gonna have a busy week
[0:11] Speaker 1: this week at the Volume. I think on Wednesday we
[0:14] Speaker 1: have Marcus Thompson, who covers the Warriors on the Steph
[0:18] Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler Connection now, which has been great for the
[0:20] Speaker 1: league and great for the Warriors. Mike mulva Hill, who
[0:24] Speaker 1: does research analytics for Fox. I bring him on once
[0:28] Speaker 1: a year. I'm gonna interview him tomorrow. Today, my buddy,
[0:32] Speaker 1: former NFL scout John Middlecoff. His podcast is three and out.
[0:36] Speaker 1: So it was interesting. I got a I got a
[0:40] Speaker 1: text today from a NFL executive. Apparently the Rams were
[0:46] Speaker 1: willing to move off Stafford, but they wanted a first
[0:50] Speaker 1: round pick. They wanted and and by the way, you
[0:55] Speaker 1: know the Raiders. We're gonna give him one hundred million guaranteed,
[0:59] Speaker 1: which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make.
[1:03] Speaker 1: But it just to throw it out there, the Rams
[1:08] Speaker 1: were willing to make a move if they could have
[1:11] Speaker 1: two first round picks. What do you make of that?
[1:15] Speaker 1: I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation.
[1:18] Speaker 1: What do you make of that?
[1:19] Speaker 2: So you're saying that they would not have traded into
[1:21] Speaker 2: the Raiders for let's say a couple seconds.
[1:24] Speaker 1: Nope, they wanted a first it was, But it's interesting
[1:27] Speaker 1: they're so close to the super Bowl. It is interesting
[1:30] Speaker 1: that they would have considered that. Now you know, this
[1:36] Speaker 1: is somebody that is close to it, so it's interesting.
[1:42] Speaker 1: It's so hard to get close to the super Bowl, right, Like,
[1:45] Speaker 1: thank god, the Niners have twelve picks this year, so
[1:48] Speaker 1: that should fortify them and make give them another run
[1:51] Speaker 1: because they've got you know, secondary and O line issues.
[1:54] Speaker 1: But it's even great teams. I mean, Dynasty's close hard,
[1:58] Speaker 1: like like you're watching Kansas in this year and you're
[2:00] Speaker 1: like they're struggling to score points for the second year
[2:02] Speaker 1: in a role. I just it is interesting they would
[2:05] Speaker 1: have considered moving him for a first Well.
[2:08] Speaker 2: I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when
[2:11] Speaker 2: he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast, and he was
[2:15] Speaker 2: open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value
[2:18] Speaker 2: to us on the field, but we can off the
[2:21] Speaker 2: field when it comes to our salary cap. And we
[2:23] Speaker 2: have limitations with a guy who's thirty seven years old. Yeah,
[2:26] Speaker 2: and I think you used to have a line was
[2:29] Speaker 2: that you can't there's not a happy, happier or something.
[2:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, don't try to get happier than happy.
[2:36] Speaker 2: And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they
[2:39] Speaker 2: would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks
[2:43] Speaker 2: that would have made the Rams happy, would he have
[2:46] Speaker 2: given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year
[2:48] Speaker 2: forty We'll see what the you know in a week,
[2:50] Speaker 2: what the number actually turns out to be. I think
[2:52] Speaker 2: that it's not public kind of shows you that, you know,
[2:55] Speaker 2: the Rams didn't just give him a one hundred and
[2:57] Speaker 2: ten million dollars, right they And I think Sean McVay
[3:00] Speaker 2: today on McAfee it's year to year thing. Yeah, right,
[3:03] Speaker 2: So I would imagine they gave him a little bump
[3:04] Speaker 2: up and raise, but relative to the rest of the league,
[3:07] Speaker 2: he's not making what he's making. My take was this,
[3:10] Speaker 2: I'm not into telling someone to quote unquote take a
[3:14] Speaker 2: pay cut or what money means to them. But he's
[3:16] Speaker 2: accumulated before this season even starts, three hundred and sixty
[3:20] Speaker 2: million dollars, right, So I would imagine if his accountant's
[3:24] Speaker 2: done pretty well. I know he's got a big family,
[3:27] Speaker 2: probably nine figures in the bank and working for him
[3:29] Speaker 2: and investments like Mats Stafford's doing really really well. Not
[3:33] Speaker 2: only will he never think about it as family, never
[3:35] Speaker 2: will So it doesn't get any better than Sean mcvaigh,
[3:38] Speaker 2: does it. Why would he want to leave?
[3:39] Speaker 1: Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred
[3:42] Speaker 1: Kupele said that Brooks Koepka, if he could, would go
[3:46] Speaker 1: back to the PGA Tour from the Live Golf. And
[3:49] Speaker 1: again I think I do think generational wealth does make
[3:52] Speaker 1: you happy for maybe twelve months. You know, it's you.
[3:56] Speaker 1: You get this kind of money, you set up trusts
[3:59] Speaker 1: with your kid or you. You know, you buy that
[4:02] Speaker 1: third home if you're Brooks Kopka in that fourth car,
[4:05] Speaker 1: and it does give you a sense of independence. But
[4:08] Speaker 1: ultimately people john not to be Tony Robbins here. People
[4:11] Speaker 1: like to be part of something, you know, It's not
[4:14] Speaker 1: just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of
[4:18] Speaker 1: something and it's an established something and there's credibility with it.
[4:21] Speaker 1: That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended.
[4:24] Speaker 1: But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned,
[4:27] Speaker 1: well run, well coached.
[4:29] Speaker 3: Right now.
[4:30] Speaker 1: The Raiders are a dream of what could be. The
[4:33] Speaker 1: Rams are something so I think I've always said this,
[4:37] Speaker 1: don't chase money, chase good management, and you'll eventually make
[4:41] Speaker 1: good money. Maybe not great money, but good money.
[4:44] Speaker 2: Yeah. I think if you use the Live guys as
[4:46] Speaker 2: an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars,
[4:50] Speaker 2: but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
[4:53] Speaker 2: His was more of an f you to the establishment, right,
[4:56] Speaker 2: d Chambeau, Brooks and DJ. These guys are not in
[5:00] Speaker 2: NFL players, so they get offered on one hundred and
[5:02] Speaker 2: eighty million dollars. It is hard that changes their life.
[5:05] Speaker 2: Matt Stafford making an extra fifty million dollars, I mean
[5:08] Speaker 2: you're talking after taxes or whatever, he's taken home twenty
[5:10] Speaker 2: eight thirty million dollars is not gonna change him or
[5:13] Speaker 2: his family's life at all. But it will impact his
[5:16] Speaker 2: football life, which, like you said, the Raiders or the Giants,
[5:19] Speaker 2: which were the teams that look like all in, are
[5:21] Speaker 2: not gonna win next year. It's just not gonna happen, right,
[5:25] Speaker 2: I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders, right,
[5:27] Speaker 2: do you just to compete in that division, even if
[5:30] Speaker 2: you have a huge upgrade at coach? I think spy
[5:32] Speaker 2: Tech is a young up and comer, but to think
[5:35] Speaker 2: twenty twelve and Matt Stafford is living in the moment.
[5:38] Speaker 2: So to me, the risk of getting the extra money,
[5:40] Speaker 2: if it would have gone through, would have sent him backwards.
[5:43] Speaker 2: I think in his football career what we saw forever
[5:46] Speaker 2: in Detroit, he finally I felt like when he got
[5:48] Speaker 2: to Sean McVay got to validate the career. This guy
[5:52] Speaker 2: with all this talent. Honestly, these last couple years, even
[5:55] Speaker 2: more than the Super Bowl year, it was like Matt Stafford,
[5:59] Speaker 2: I mean, doesn't get much better than that, And I
[6:03] Speaker 2: think it would have kind of been sad because it
[6:05] Speaker 2: would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or
[6:08] Speaker 2: forty one year old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been
[6:11] Speaker 2: a drop off from Matt Staffords. So I'm just glad
[6:13] Speaker 2: that that he stayed and it worked out from a
[6:15] Speaker 2: football standpoint, because this they have a good offseason, a
[6:17] Speaker 2: couple moves here and there. I mean, who's to say
[6:20] Speaker 2: that they are, you know, top two or three favored
[6:22] Speaker 2: in the NFC to be a you know, win the
[6:24] Speaker 2: Super Bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.
[6:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that game against Philadelphia.
[6:29] Speaker 3: Says it all.
[6:29] Speaker 1: They're driving in a snowstorm and they get down to
[6:32] Speaker 1: the fifteen yard line and they have a rookie center,
[6:35] Speaker 1: six round pick, and they had finally gotten their offensive
[6:39] Speaker 1: line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team,
[6:42] Speaker 1: better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy
[6:45] Speaker 1: with a W and so. And I've said this, McVeigh
[6:49] Speaker 1: doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he follows up great
[6:53] Speaker 1: seasons with clunkers. If like Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay
[6:57] Speaker 1: wins every year. It's just they don't really they reboot.
[6:59] Speaker 1: They don't necessarily rebuild the I was I think.
[7:04] Speaker 2: You know, you know one major difference I think the
[7:06] Speaker 2: two right now is McVeigh has I thought Kyle, because
[7:10] Speaker 2: of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's
[7:13] Speaker 2: been emotional when it came to Debo re signing him
[7:16] Speaker 2: and keeping him last year. With Ayuk McVeigh, it's like
[7:19] Speaker 2: Jalen Ramsey cut you off Sea Cooper Cup this year,
[7:22] Speaker 2: we're moving on right this offseason Stafford one year deal.
[7:25] Speaker 2: That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in
[7:28] Speaker 2: this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of
[7:31] Speaker 2: these players, and McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's roots.
[7:35] Speaker 2: Of Walsh, it's like, yeah, we're done here, and he's
[7:38] Speaker 2: had to tactfully change, you know. With Goff, he was
[7:41] Speaker 2: a little too outspoken and even he said that like
[7:44] Speaker 2: I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business.
[7:47] Speaker 2: We have to make tough decisions. And I think the
[7:49] Speaker 2: forty nine ers found themselves in a rut because they
[7:52] Speaker 2: they tied themselves to every single player instead of you know,
[7:55] Speaker 2: in football, the guy can be a good player, but
[7:57] Speaker 2: you gotta pivot. You can't sign them all.
[7:59] Speaker 1: Well, I mean Philadelphia is in that spot right now.
[8:01] Speaker 1: Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one.
[8:04] Speaker 1: You and I any fan could make that because they
[8:07] Speaker 1: nailed their two. You know, they're two early picks at
[8:10] Speaker 1: corner right. The tougher pick is going to be do
[8:13] Speaker 1: you keep the linebackeror do you keep AJ Brown? And
[8:15] Speaker 1: I've said this before, I would move off Aj Brown.
[8:18] Speaker 1: It's in the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early,
[8:22] Speaker 1: he gets hurt. Often when a receiver is verbal and
[8:26] Speaker 1: outspoken early they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right,
[8:33] Speaker 1: so Debo didn't get quieter.
[8:35] Speaker 3: I would move off.
[8:36] Speaker 1: AJ Brown because you're so good at running back, O line, quarterback,
[8:39] Speaker 1: tight end, and Devonte Smith. I think that's an easy one.
[8:43] Speaker 1: But but you don't want to think like a fan.
[8:45] Speaker 1: But I think people will look at AJ Brown and go,
[8:47] Speaker 1: he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find. Really,
[8:52] Speaker 1: Pukainaku is a fifth rounder. I mean there's one or
[8:54] Speaker 1: two positions in the NFL cornerback, wide receiver, running back.
[8:58] Speaker 1: It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like,
[9:01] Speaker 1: there's all sorts of examples. So like I look at
[9:04] Speaker 1: Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know
[9:06] Speaker 1: the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is
[9:09] Speaker 1: gonna look different. Not everybody's gonna love it. So to me,
[9:14] Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a caution. Guys were
[9:17] Speaker 1: moving off some popular talented guys. You don't say that
[9:20] Speaker 1: if you just have to cut Darius Sleigh. That's an
[9:23] Speaker 1: easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
[9:26] Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be
[9:28] Speaker 2: if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of
[9:32] Speaker 2: let the cat out of the bag and then they
[9:33] Speaker 2: tried to walk it back. It's like, come on, but
[9:37] Speaker 2: you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean,
[9:40] Speaker 2: he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is, when healthy,
[9:43] Speaker 2: one of the best, what four or five six wide
[9:45] Speaker 2: receivers in the league. I think the only way they
[9:47] Speaker 2: would do something like that would be to clear up
[9:50] Speaker 2: some movement if they could get Miles Garrett, and by
[9:52] Speaker 2: all accounts, they are gonna be one of the lead
[9:54] Speaker 2: dogs in those moves. So I think the thing was
[9:57] Speaker 2: Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie and I would
[10:01] Speaker 2: just say, consistent football teams maintain it or not. It's like, yeah,
[10:05] Speaker 2: he's a good guy, he had an incredible season, but
[10:09] Speaker 2: are we gonna break the bank for a linebacker? And
[10:12] Speaker 2: his history would say the Eagles and good teams do not.
[10:16] Speaker 2: That's right, right. Let someone else give you four years,
[10:19] Speaker 2: eighty million dollars and forty five million dollars guaranteed. And
[10:22] Speaker 2: this is why you keep drafting and why you keep
[10:24] Speaker 2: investing it. And listen, part of being a good NFL
[10:27] Speaker 2: team takes some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year,
[10:31] Speaker 2: four million dollars, first Team All Pro that's why you
[10:34] Speaker 2: pay Vic Fangio five six million dollars. You know that's
[10:38] Speaker 2: last year. He looked at this guy, special teamer, kind
[10:40] Speaker 2: of outside linebacker. Let's make him a middle linebacker under
[10:44] Speaker 2: my tutelage, Patrick Willison, Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if
[10:48] Speaker 2: I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment
[10:51] Speaker 2: is not the player, it's the coach. Why couldn't I
[10:53] Speaker 2: do this again? Why can't we find a guy in
[10:55] Speaker 2: the draft, maybe on the second day, second or third round.
[10:58] Speaker 2: Let fans you a mold them like a piece of clay.
[11:00] Speaker 2: He did it with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he That's
[11:03] Speaker 2: the best case scenario. But no one in a million
[11:06] Speaker 2: years in the NFL would it, said Zach Bond, first
[11:08] Speaker 2: Team All Pro middle linebacker. No chance. And that's that
[11:12] Speaker 2: you know football more than all these other sports. The
[11:15] Speaker 2: power of these coordinators, if you get it right, I mean,
[11:17] Speaker 2: look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive coordinators
[11:20] Speaker 2: over the years, can change your franchise, right because it's
[11:24] Speaker 2: you're not paying them player money, you're paying them four
[11:26] Speaker 2: five six million dollars.
[11:27] Speaker 1: It's amazing to me how fans really really struggle and
[11:35] Speaker 1: and like to me, aj Brown and Bonner the linebacker
[11:38] Speaker 1: are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt
[11:43] Speaker 1: that O line probably for the next three years.
[11:46] Speaker 3: I'm I mean, I'm that old line.
[11:48] Speaker 1: Maybe in two to three years Lane Johnson retires, but
[11:51] Speaker 1: the core of that organization to me is now Saquon
[11:55] Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts and that old line. Everything else. To me,
[11:57] Speaker 1: I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really
[12:00] Speaker 1: I mean, think how great people thought Dak was. I mean,
[12:04] Speaker 1: people really thought Dak was a top five quarterback when
[12:06] Speaker 1: the Cowboys O line five years ago. Those guys were
[12:09] Speaker 1: all closer to their prime. Now we look up and
[12:11] Speaker 1: go Jesus that Dak's the most overpaid guy in the
[12:14] Speaker 1: NFL by a long shot. So you know, I just
[12:18] Speaker 1: think when I look at like when Tyreek Hill, Andy
[12:23] Speaker 1: Reid moved off him, I never forget the day it happened.
[12:25] Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, of course you move off him,
[12:27] Speaker 1: like you got look at the Pick State guy at
[12:29] Speaker 1: the time. I'm like, first round, second round, second round.
[12:31] Speaker 1: I'm like, Bret Fiach is going to hit on at.
[12:34] Speaker 2: Least half of these.
[12:35] Speaker 3: Of course you make the move. He's a deep threat.
[12:37] Speaker 1: Those guys don't mean much in December and January when
[12:39] Speaker 1: it's freezing and windy. So I mean the AJ Brown
[12:43] Speaker 1: one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a
[12:45] Speaker 1: receiver Deebo is a prime example, when they start getting
[12:49] Speaker 1: outspoken early that doesn't go backwards and you're and by
[12:53] Speaker 1: the way, you won with him, you got to a
[12:55] Speaker 1: couple of Super Bowls. Like I also think there's there
[12:58] Speaker 1: at some point in a salary cap. Sport players become
[13:02] Speaker 1: commodities and there's just you have to move them. They're
[13:06] Speaker 1: chess pieces and you say, well, where's the humanity? Come on,
[13:10] Speaker 1: we all know the game here. This is the way
[13:12] Speaker 1: it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now,
[13:14] Speaker 1: kids leave their program all the time. They make promises,
[13:17] Speaker 1: they commit, they leave. We all know this is how
[13:19] Speaker 1: the game works.
[13:21] Speaker 2: Well, the one thing with AJ two, if that would
[13:23] Speaker 2: be something they wanted to do, he still has a
[13:25] Speaker 2: lot of value. I mean, he's still one of the
[13:28] Speaker 2: best players in the league. I mean you're not just
[13:30] Speaker 2: kicking him away like Debo for a fifth round pick.
[13:32] Speaker 2: It might bring you back like a second and a third. Yeah, right,
[13:35] Speaker 2: I don't know if you could get I mean they
[13:36] Speaker 2: traded a first form, could they get a late first.
[13:40] Speaker 2: I mean, some of those teams don't have the most
[13:42] Speaker 2: cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and
[13:44] Speaker 2: a third. Yep, you know, depends. I think there's always
[13:47] Speaker 2: other moves. He's not just getting rid of a player
[13:49] Speaker 2: to get rid of a player. You know that Milton Williams,
[13:52] Speaker 2: the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love
[13:54] Speaker 2: to keep. But guys like that are He's gonna get
[13:56] Speaker 2: twenty million dollars a year, That's right. So I think
[13:58] Speaker 2: they're always thinking. The one thing the Eagles have been
[14:03] Speaker 2: like since before I got there and ever since long
[14:05] Speaker 2: after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm
[14:08] Speaker 2: telling you, if Miles Garrett this is the Browns can
[14:11] Speaker 2: say all they want, we're not moving on and listen.
[14:14] Speaker 2: I would understand if you're a well run, competitive team,
[14:16] Speaker 2: But given the Deshaun's situation, this is the time to
[14:19] Speaker 2: just blow the thing up. And to me, he would
[14:23] Speaker 2: net you multiple first round picks. So if that if
[14:27] Speaker 2: he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and
[14:29] Speaker 2: center with the package of things that they would put
[14:32] Speaker 2: in front of them to the land that player and
[14:34] Speaker 2: their owner and how you manipulate the salary cap is
[14:37] Speaker 2: you pay these insane bonus right right, it's everyone plays
[14:40] Speaker 2: under the same umbrella of the cap, but I can
[14:43] Speaker 2: cut you a bigger signing bonus, then that's where guys
[14:46] Speaker 2: sign up for.
[14:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, And for the record, fans tend to think all
[14:50] Speaker 1: these owners are even No, they're not. Stan Cronk, Jeffrey Lowie.
[14:54] Speaker 1: The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority
[14:58] Speaker 1: of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just
[15:00] Speaker 1: not an organization. I mean the packers have to get
[15:03] Speaker 1: everything a boot approved. The Bears don't have that kind
[15:06] Speaker 1: of money historically. I saw something today that came out
[15:11] Speaker 1: and I have a friend who has a business and
[15:16] Speaker 1: the business changed. It was not his fault, and just
[15:18] Speaker 1: the culture of his business changed three or four different
[15:21] Speaker 1: ways post COVID, and he's now stuck with sort of
[15:25] Speaker 1: a business that's not It lost about thirty percent of
[15:27] Speaker 1: its legs. And my wife and I had this discussion
[15:31] Speaker 1: the other day about something that you know, I own
[15:35] Speaker 1: a podcast company and now it's more of a we
[15:37] Speaker 1: call it more of a media company because we had
[15:39] Speaker 1: to grow and if you don't grow, you'll die, you'll
[15:40] Speaker 1: get eaten alive. And I was watching these stories about
[15:44] Speaker 1: Shador Sanders has come off, you know, as arrogant to
[15:47] Speaker 1: some people during interviews, and I was thinking about this.
[15:51] Speaker 1: Here's what's changed to last two classes. Quarterbacks are coming
[15:57] Speaker 1: into the NFL now as millionaires. And go back to
[16:00] Speaker 1: when you were twenty one years old or twenty two
[16:02] Speaker 1: years old, if you had like seven million dollars in
[16:05] Speaker 1: the bank, I would have been cocky, like cocky err
[16:09] Speaker 1: And you know, there was always this thing Bill Parcells
[16:12] Speaker 1: years ago, John said, don't draft celebrity quarterbacks. Well that's over.
[16:17] Speaker 1: I mean, these guys, I'm sorry. If you play at
[16:18] Speaker 1: Ohio State, you're a celebrity quarterback. If you play it
[16:21] Speaker 1: you know under Lincoln Riley or at Georgia, you're a
[16:24] Speaker 1: celebrity quarterback. I mean, Carson Beck is average and he's
[16:27] Speaker 1: a celebrity quarterback. And the other thing, though, is am
[16:31] Speaker 1: I wrong? You're a former scout that nil kids come
[16:37] Speaker 1: now and they're not starving, and they have a nice car,
[16:42] Speaker 1: and they may have two million in the bank. And
[16:45] Speaker 1: if they think the organization that's interviewing them is a
[16:48] Speaker 1: bottom tier organization, and they think to themselves. I don't
[16:52] Speaker 1: want to play for the blank. I don't want to
[16:54] Speaker 1: play for this team or that team or Cleveland. You know,
[16:58] Speaker 1: I'm going to come in with little I'm not saying
[17:01] Speaker 1: it's right, but I'm saying the world changes, and I
[17:04] Speaker 1: think nil for quarterbacks. These kids are coming into interviews
[17:08] Speaker 1: now with a little more leverage and with a stronger
[17:12] Speaker 1: opinion on themselves.
[17:15] Speaker 2: Yeah. I've been talking to my buddies that are on
[17:16] Speaker 2: the road the last couple of years, and they will
[17:18] Speaker 2: tell you that, you know, at the Big Power for top,
[17:21] Speaker 2: I don't know, thirty forty programs, the parking lots look
[17:24] Speaker 2: like the NFL parking lots. For the college kids like
[17:28] Speaker 2: you go to the University of Michigan or Ohio State
[17:30] Speaker 2: or Penn State or Alabama or LSU, I would say
[17:35] Speaker 2: there are seventy or eighty brand new cars and from
[17:38] Speaker 2: everything I mean, Carson Beck just had a Lamborghini stolen,
[17:41] Speaker 2: and like you said, he's average. I think, you know,
[17:44] Speaker 2: part of this is talking to friends. They like it
[17:48] Speaker 2: because these guys are easy to evaluate. How they handled
[17:51] Speaker 2: they made let's say one point eight million dollars over
[17:53] Speaker 2: the last couple of years, and their work ethic, their accountability,
[17:57] Speaker 2: none of it changed. You know, Shador is much more
[18:00] Speaker 2: like a Peyton Manning or a Steph Curry, Like he's
[18:02] Speaker 2: a rich kid. I mean he grew up. He's Deon Sanders' son,
[18:05] Speaker 2: so he's he's been around the bright lights from day one,
[18:10] Speaker 2: right since the beginning. I think the questions people have
[18:12] Speaker 2: with Shadors. There was a famous line of Dion like
[18:15] Speaker 2: a I think the New York Giants wanted to interview
[18:18] Speaker 2: him at the combine and he asked him, like where
[18:20] Speaker 2: you draft and they said seventh. He's like, I'm not
[18:22] Speaker 2: wasting my time. But Dean could back it up because
[18:24] Speaker 2: he was one of the best prospects we've ever seen.
[18:26] Speaker 2: He became one of the great players we've ever seen.
[18:28] Speaker 2: These people look at you, you know, when they're interviewing Shador,
[18:30] Speaker 2: they don't look at him like he's Andrew Luck or
[18:34] Speaker 2: Caleb Williams, like he's not the best prospect they've ever seen.
[18:37] Speaker 2: So I think sometimes they look for a little humility
[18:40] Speaker 2: in that moment, and uh, I don't know. I think
[18:43] Speaker 2: Chador is going to be a fascinating case. I will
[18:45] Speaker 2: say this watching him as a player, like sometimes you
[18:49] Speaker 2: get the kind of that cockiness, you like, this guy's
[18:50] Speaker 2: kind of a fake fraud, not that tough like he
[18:53] Speaker 2: is tough, like you watch him play, Oh god getting
[18:55] Speaker 2: back up. So to me here there's an old school
[18:59] Speaker 2: nature to his game that he gets from his dad.
[19:01] Speaker 2: I think they would question his arms not great relative
[19:04] Speaker 2: to like elite prospects. Yeah, and even he admitted like
[19:07] Speaker 2: I got my mom's jeans as an athlete, not my dad.
[19:09] Speaker 2: So he's not an up rechelant athlete. And yeah, I
[19:13] Speaker 2: just think he's gonna be fascinating. Some people think he
[19:15] Speaker 2: could fall out of the top ten. Who knows. I mean,
[19:19] Speaker 2: there's not a quarterback. None of these guys are guaranteed.
[19:21] Speaker 2: Everyone thinks the Giants are gonna take one of these
[19:23] Speaker 2: court what if they just signed Sam Darnold, Like they're
[19:26] Speaker 2: not a get locked to sign any of these or
[19:28] Speaker 2: you know, draft any of these guys. So I think
[19:30] Speaker 2: cam Ward who has a much more I would say
[19:33] Speaker 2: gifted skill set, you know, just bigger arms, yeah, more
[19:36] Speaker 2: you just quicker athlete. You're also compared to the crew
[19:41] Speaker 2: you're in. Right, So when I'm interviewing people, guy come in,
[19:45] Speaker 2: Guy come out, Guy comes in, guy comes out, So
[19:48] Speaker 2: it's just kind of I'm living in the moment and
[19:50] Speaker 2: when you come off a little bit different, you know,
[19:52] Speaker 2: some guys are just rubbed the wrong way.
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[21:16] Speaker 1: And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business brought to
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[21:22] Speaker 1: Colin Cowhard Podcast. If you want to enjoy life simple pleasures,
[21:26] Speaker 1: reach for Green River Whiskey. Whether it's rye whiskey, single
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[21:32] Speaker 1: into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwhisky dot com
[21:36] Speaker 1: and discover a legend in a bottle today. So there
[21:39] Speaker 1: was a moment this weekend. Jerry Jones canceled his interview
[21:43] Speaker 1: at the NFL Combine and the Cowboys have had a
[21:46] Speaker 1: rough couple of years. I mean, they gave away a
[21:48] Speaker 1: fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out
[21:50] Speaker 1: Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle Shanahan Cammick a quarterback accurate,
[21:53] Speaker 1: he's not accurate. They give up a fourth round pick
[21:57] Speaker 1: for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver five catches for the Cowboys,
[22:00] Speaker 1: and again both those moves, you.
[22:02] Speaker 3: Know, we all kind of went.
[22:05] Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the Commanders gave up a fifth round pick for
[22:07] Speaker 1: Deebo Samuel. And it's really interesting as I look at Washington,
[22:16] Speaker 1: not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters,
[22:20] Speaker 1: Cliff dan Quinn, that move for Debo Jaden Daniels, and
[22:28] Speaker 1: I don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias.
[22:32] Speaker 1: I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going
[22:36] Speaker 1: to be one of the three best NFC teams. And
[22:38] Speaker 1: I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming
[22:43] Speaker 1: the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly,
[22:47] Speaker 1: they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving
[22:52] Speaker 1: away draft picks now. I mean people don't understand they
[22:54] Speaker 1: may re work Dax contract. It's a ninety million dollar
[23:05] Speaker 1: cap hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can
[23:08] Speaker 1: rework it all they want to. What fifty eight I
[23:13] Speaker 1: said this a year ago. I said they're going to
[23:15] Speaker 1: start a decade of regression. It has happened so fast
[23:19] Speaker 1: in this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did
[23:23] Speaker 1: you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth
[23:25] Speaker 1: round pick?
[23:27] Speaker 2: Well, to me, you just look at the free agent
[23:28] Speaker 2: class and you go, well, we don't want to get
[23:30] Speaker 2: in any long because the whole thing was Washington has
[23:33] Speaker 2: all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jayden,
[23:35] Speaker 2: and you look around you go, well, NFL free agency
[23:39] Speaker 2: is the most overrated thing because high end guys never
[23:41] Speaker 2: make it, and the guys that do you have to
[23:43] Speaker 2: pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple of
[23:46] Speaker 2: years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years ninety million dollars.
[23:49] Speaker 2: He actually turned out to be okay. But you have
[23:51] Speaker 2: to pay, you know, elite money for those guys. So
[23:54] Speaker 2: I can get Debo on a year to year contract.
[23:57] Speaker 2: I have all this space. All I have to give
[23:58] Speaker 2: up is a fifth round pick. In the nil era,
[24:01] Speaker 2: fifth six to seventh round picks feel like diminished and
[24:04] Speaker 2: watered down. I also think you get a guy who's
[24:07] Speaker 2: a little motivated. People are calling him fat, you know,
[24:10] Speaker 2: a little like Lucas style. Adam Peters knows the guy well.
[24:14] Speaker 2: Cliff Kingsbury. You know, when you think back to Arizona,
[24:17] Speaker 2: they used a lot of gadget players. Rondell Moore, the
[24:20] Speaker 2: Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you can get
[24:22] Speaker 2: behind the line of scrimmage, you know. I actually think
[24:25] Speaker 2: it's a good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've
[24:29] Speaker 2: had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side.
[24:32] Speaker 2: Terry McLaurin, Brandon Nyuk to me, if you get a
[24:35] Speaker 2: motivated Debo, it's a no brainer. We have all this
[24:38] Speaker 2: cap space. I give him seventeen All I have to
[24:39] Speaker 2: give up is a fifth round pick, and if you're
[24:41] Speaker 2: the forty nine ers, you aren't gonna pay him seventeen
[24:43] Speaker 2: million dollars here in a couple of weeks. So it's
[24:45] Speaker 2: I think it's kind of a win win. The Niners
[24:47] Speaker 2: are moving off, they don't have to eat any of
[24:49] Speaker 2: the money. They trade to a team where the general
[24:52] Speaker 2: manager was around not only drafting him, but his good
[24:55] Speaker 2: and bad moments, so knows his personality because the other thing,
[24:58] Speaker 2: I mean, you've been saying it for ever. Whyer See,
[25:00] Speaker 2: it's gonna be a little moodie. They got a little
[25:03] Speaker 2: like Hollywood actor to him. They need to be you
[25:06] Speaker 2: just you have to know their personality. It's very rare
[25:09] Speaker 2: to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more debo.
[25:13] Speaker 2: And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I
[25:15] Speaker 2: think the Jerry Jones thing. How often in any business
[25:19] Speaker 2: that if the eighty year old patriarch of the operation
[25:23] Speaker 2: is around and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
[25:26] Speaker 2: is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering.
[25:29] Speaker 2: He's made an ungodly amount of money, he does not
[25:33] Speaker 2: need to be there, and he's extra hands on. So Jerry,
[25:37] Speaker 2: you could argue, Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown.
[25:41] Speaker 2: As they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative
[25:45] Speaker 2: to some of their big seasons, and they've underwhelmed in
[25:48] Speaker 2: the playoffs, it doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what,
[25:51] Speaker 2: I'm gonna let Steven and Will McKay and my coach
[25:54] Speaker 2: take a bigger role. I'm just I'm just gonna be
[25:57] Speaker 2: more of a figurehead. He always doubles down cutting the check.
[26:01] Speaker 2: My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a
[26:03] Speaker 2: football guy, and he's not wrong. I mean, he played
[26:05] Speaker 2: college football, he's been around his whole life. But unlike
[26:08] Speaker 2: a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business. Yeah,
[26:11] Speaker 2: and the business of his team is marketing and all that.
[26:15] Speaker 2: And it's just there's just a lot going on with
[26:17] Speaker 2: the Cowboys, and you know, Micah Parsons. You talk about
[26:21] Speaker 2: Dak's capit. If they do give Mike a new deal
[26:25] Speaker 2: and don't trade them, what's that deal? One hundred and
[26:27] Speaker 2: fifty million dollars guaranteed for quarterback contract?
[26:29] Speaker 3: Rudal?
[26:30] Speaker 2: No. I mean, so they're in three guys at a
[26:32] Speaker 2: combine what like five hundred million dollars?
[26:34] Speaker 3: Crazy?
[26:35] Speaker 1: I mean, I just you can't have three different players
[26:40] Speaker 1: top of the market when only one of them, Ce
[26:42] Speaker 1: d Lamb is top five at his position in the NFL.
[26:46] Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, it's I had a very good
[26:51] Speaker 1: year last year, predicting, very bad year, picking individual games,
[26:55] Speaker 1: very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington
[27:01] Speaker 1: and Denver and some of the upstarts this year. I
[27:03] Speaker 1: think New England is going to be a surprise playoff team.
[27:07] Speaker 1: I think the Jets are going to go sideways a
[27:09] Speaker 1: little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami
[27:12] Speaker 1: I kind of think they've topped out a little bit.
[27:15] Speaker 1: All the motion and the tricks and smoking mirrors. I
[27:17] Speaker 1: think there's limitations there. I think New England's going to
[27:21] Speaker 1: be in play And my other one is I think
[27:24] Speaker 1: Dallas is potentially a five or six win team with
[27:27] Speaker 1: Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, I have the good news is
[27:30] Speaker 1: it's a good quarterback draft. I have to go out
[27:32] Speaker 1: and get one if I was Dallas this year. In fact,
[27:34] Speaker 1: I think I heard Stephen Jones say this. I had
[27:37] Speaker 1: another person tell me who I respect, keep your eye
[27:41] Speaker 1: on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round.
[27:46] Speaker 1: Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go
[27:51] Speaker 1: after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now they're not late second.
[27:55] Speaker 1: I think Dallas made trade down in the second round
[27:58] Speaker 1: to get a mid second pick. I am hearing more
[28:01] Speaker 1: and more, and I went and watched him about a
[28:03] Speaker 1: month ago. Kyle McCord throws a really nice ball and
[28:07] Speaker 1: I thought about this if he had stayed, because Will
[28:10] Speaker 1: Howard completed sixty one percent of his throws at Kansas State.
[28:14] Speaker 1: He goes to Ohio State and complete seventy three percent
[28:17] Speaker 1: of his throws. If you don't think that matters. If
[28:19] Speaker 1: if Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith
[28:24] Speaker 1: and Ibuka and the two NFL running backs and Kyle McCord,
[28:29] Speaker 1: who's a much better pro prospect than Will Howard, it's
[28:32] Speaker 1: not even. It's not Will Howard is like late fifth sixth.
[28:35] Speaker 1: In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL he
[28:39] Speaker 1: thinks after the combine he's a seventh round pick.
[28:42] Speaker 2: I had a bad combine. Oh bad.
[28:44] Speaker 3: I think.
[28:45] Speaker 1: I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being
[28:50] Speaker 1: as good as any quarterback in that draft.
[28:52] Speaker 3: This is my hottest take is that he'll he'll be
[28:55] Speaker 3: the guy.
[28:55] Speaker 2: Tell me I'm wrong, Well, I think yeah. I watched
[28:58] Speaker 2: a couple of Syracuse games this season and went, this
[29:02] Speaker 2: is the guy that Ryan Day because let's face it,
[29:04] Speaker 2: they blamed him for the Michigan loss two years ago
[29:07] Speaker 2: and he got kicked out, and so I listen, I
[29:09] Speaker 2: believed him. I was like Hey, this guy, if he
[29:11] Speaker 2: can't make it there, maybe they're right. And then you
[29:14] Speaker 2: watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in
[29:16] Speaker 2: a while. He was spinning. He's got a big arms
[29:19] Speaker 2: hight spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart because there
[29:23] Speaker 2: are so many question marks with the top two guys
[29:25] Speaker 2: with Cam and Chador. If you're talking about two guys
[29:27] Speaker 2: you have to draft in the top I don't know
[29:29] Speaker 2: one guy in the top five, the other guy in
[29:31] Speaker 2: the top twelve. You can get these two guys. Historically,
[29:35] Speaker 2: McCord is not going to be a first round pick,
[29:37] Speaker 2: but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second
[29:39] Speaker 2: round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs, the Jimmy Garoppolos,
[29:42] Speaker 2: these guys that can start for you, and if you
[29:43] Speaker 2: do a good job building your team, you can win
[29:45] Speaker 2: with I think the problem for the Cowboys is if
[29:48] Speaker 2: you look at the Dak Era, they really only had
[29:50] Speaker 2: to deal with the Eagles, right, he just kind of
[29:52] Speaker 2: went back and forth over the last ten years, right
[29:54] Speaker 2: with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni Era. Well, now it's
[29:57] Speaker 2: not just the Eagles, it's Washington too, So you add
[30:00] Speaker 2: another team because Washington up until last year was a joke.
[30:04] Speaker 2: The Giants have been terrible for what a decade plus,
[30:07] Speaker 2: So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with
[30:09] Speaker 2: the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington. I mean,
[30:11] Speaker 2: that's that's a huge problem. And even if they do
[30:13] Speaker 2: draft mccor Jackson Dart whoever, let's say they draft a
[30:17] Speaker 2: second round pick that does nothing for them in twenty
[30:20] Speaker 2: twenty five and honestly does nothing for them the next
[30:23] Speaker 2: couple of years. That guys, they're kind of just hoping
[30:25] Speaker 2: to get their Jordan love, which is good big picture
[30:28] Speaker 2: team building, but it does not help them trying to
[30:31] Speaker 2: beat the Eagles or Washington in Week seven when you're
[30:35] Speaker 2: three and three and your season kind of feels like
[30:37] Speaker 2: it's teetering, right, Yeah, the you know, it.
[30:44] Speaker 3: Was interesting.
[30:46] Speaker 1: I had this take that Sam Donald so overachieved for
[30:52] Speaker 1: the Vikings that Kevin O'Connell and their young gm feel
[30:56] Speaker 1: like they owe Sam Donald. They owe him a solid
[30:59] Speaker 1: and everybody likes Sam impossible not to like if you
[31:02] Speaker 1: meet him, and so they have said publicly, we're not
[31:06] Speaker 1: sure what we're gonna do. We we we may resign him,
[31:10] Speaker 1: and everybody knows Kevin O'Connell, the tall Sean McVay is
[31:13] Speaker 1: a really good coach. Now I'm just I'm theorizing this,
[31:17] Speaker 1: but Kevin O'Connell knows what he's gonna do at quarterback.
[31:20] Speaker 1: He's gonna use JJ McCarthy. But they're doing a solid.
[31:25] Speaker 1: This is sort of like what McVeigh did to Baker Mayfield.
[31:28] Speaker 1: He told everybody, God, Baker was great. I've never seen
[31:30] Speaker 1: a guy work this hard. He was unbelievable. You do
[31:33] Speaker 1: a guy a solid who comes in, you want to
[31:34] Speaker 1: help him, you want a good reputation that I think
[31:37] Speaker 1: the Vikings know what they're gonna do, but they feel
[31:39] Speaker 1: like Sam is a better.
[31:42] Speaker 3: Guy than Aaron Rodgers.
[31:44] Speaker 1: And if those are the two best quarterbacks on the market,
[31:47] Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna say nice things about Sam to
[31:50] Speaker 1: get him the better deal. Because a lot of these teams,
[31:53] Speaker 1: like Vegas, it's gonna come down potentially to Sam and Aaron.
[31:56] Speaker 1: So my theory is, you know, Aaron's made a few
[32:00] Speaker 1: enemies in his career, you know, and he's got his
[32:02] Speaker 1: reputation that the Vikings are just doing this to get
[32:06] Speaker 1: Sam the better deal on the market.
[32:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I do think last year kind of spoke
[32:13] Speaker 2: for itself. He did play really well. Yes, I mean
[32:16] Speaker 2: you and I coming on week in week out. He
[32:18] Speaker 2: just was that an MVP performance. I mean that throw
[32:21] Speaker 2: and that play he made against Seattle. Near the end
[32:23] Speaker 2: of the season, he thought like could he actually win
[32:26] Speaker 2: the MVP, And then those last two games I would say,
[32:30] Speaker 2: you know, kind of clouded his fantastic season. The hard
[32:35] Speaker 2: part is there were so much on the line in
[32:36] Speaker 2: those two games. He was horrendous. I think the difference
[32:41] Speaker 2: of the two is one I would struggle with Aaron
[32:44] Speaker 2: for any amount of money over like ten twelve million
[32:47] Speaker 2: dollars because you're getting a guy that doesn't want to
[32:50] Speaker 2: get hit. Yeah, it's naturally kind of moody with an
[32:52] Speaker 2: offensive coordinator, just a unique cat Sam. His value kind
[32:58] Speaker 2: of is Baker Mayfield Like, it's not a super cheap deal.
[33:02] Speaker 2: So you're talking I would say eighty to one hundred,
[33:04] Speaker 2: but it is You're getting to bed with him for
[33:06] Speaker 2: a couple of seasons, even if it's the Daniel Jones contract,
[33:09] Speaker 2: that's a multiple year contract, so that there becomes pressure
[33:13] Speaker 2: on that. I think, you know, the Giants are kind
[33:15] Speaker 2: of in win now mode, right, you know, doesn't make
[33:18] Speaker 2: more sense. Let's just go with Aaron Rodgers and maybe
[33:20] Speaker 2: you know, veteran quarterback who knows what we do. If
[33:22] Speaker 2: we get with Sam Darnold, it doesn't work. All of
[33:25] Speaker 2: a sudden, we're in a weird spot. I think, Sam,
[33:29] Speaker 2: like all these quarterbacks, you're you're gonna be much better
[33:31] Speaker 2: with a good with Sean McVay, with Kevin O'Connell, with
[33:33] Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan. You get with some of these coaches like
[33:36] Speaker 2: you're just not. Let me look at Ebra Fluce and
[33:38] Speaker 2: Caleb in that situation. Now we'll find out how good
[33:41] Speaker 2: Caleb actually is. But he had no chance last year.
[33:43] Speaker 1: Well, this is funny about the draft. I was talking
[33:48] Speaker 1: to somebody in the league about Jalen Milroe, and you know,
[33:54] Speaker 1: this person likes Jalen's story and his parents and the kid.
[34:00] Speaker 1: He thinks he's a much better Anthony Richardson. But he
[34:04] Speaker 1: did say to me, he said, but if he goes
[34:06] Speaker 1: to a defensive coach and it's a first time offensive coordinator,
[34:11] Speaker 1: he goes Jayleen Milroll is going to.
[34:12] Speaker 3: Look really bad. He said.
[34:14] Speaker 1: Now if he goes to you know, he goes to
[34:18] Speaker 1: a there's an offensive sensibility or he goes to a
[34:21] Speaker 1: you know, an offensive head coach where he doesn't have
[34:23] Speaker 1: to start. He said, the kid is physically he is
[34:27] Speaker 1: a better athlete than Anthony Richardson, Like he just will
[34:30] Speaker 1: run people over or run by them. And he said
[34:33] Speaker 1: he throws a gorgeous deep ball. Anthony Richardson doesn't throw
[34:36] Speaker 1: a gorgeous anything. But to your point, with Darnold and Gardner,
[34:41] Speaker 1: Minshew with Shane Steichen almost made the playoffs in Las Vegas,
[34:44] Speaker 1: it was a mess. And I think that's how I
[34:47] Speaker 1: feel about this year's quarterback class. I really do, John,
[34:51] Speaker 1: Where do they land now? I think cam Ward is
[34:55] Speaker 1: talented enough to overcome a little nonsense and you get
[34:59] Speaker 1: one of those guys in ye where they're just kind
[35:01] Speaker 1: of good enough to make it work to some degree.
[35:04] Speaker 1: But I think every other guy in this drafting, Jackson Dart,
[35:07] Speaker 1: Jalen Milroe, Kyle mclory, shud Or Sanders, they get poor coaching,
[35:11] Speaker 1: they get a battle line.
[35:13] Speaker 3: It could be ugly fast.
[35:15] Speaker 2: You know. Someone asked me, like, what's the difference between
[35:18] Speaker 2: Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson. I said, well, Anthony Richindson
[35:22] Speaker 2: had a lot of unknown Jalen's the problem with Jalen
[35:25] Speaker 2: is we've seen two years at Alabama as a starter.
[35:28] Speaker 2: If he only had nine games for Alabama, he would
[35:31] Speaker 2: be a lock first round pick. We can mold them,
[35:33] Speaker 2: we can figure it out. His sample size was too big,
[35:36] Speaker 2: the thing Anthony Richardson had going for him, small sample size,
[35:40] Speaker 2: and then the bigger it got Trey Lance one year starting.
[35:44] Speaker 2: If he had started three years, would people have been
[35:46] Speaker 2: off the scent? And that's where some of these guys
[35:48] Speaker 2: that have been three or four year starters. You got
[35:51] Speaker 2: Will Campbell. Everyone's picking him apart. The guy's been a
[35:53] Speaker 2: four year starter at LSU, had left at he might
[35:56] Speaker 2: end up being a guard, but I'll promise you he's
[35:58] Speaker 2: gonna start in the NFL for a decade. Right, he
[36:00] Speaker 2: might be a guard, but he's going to start in
[36:01] Speaker 2: the NFL for a decade. And I understand where he
[36:04] Speaker 2: pushes back. Everyone's bitching about my arms. Show me where
[36:07] Speaker 2: I'm getting beat because of my own But sometimes Logan
[36:11] Speaker 2: Mankins was a left tackle at President State. They moved
[36:13] Speaker 2: him a guard pro bowler. The thing with quarterbacks, the
[36:16] Speaker 2: accuracy thing does rattle people, and we have recent examples
[36:20] Speaker 2: Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson who were listen. Sometimes you swing
[36:24] Speaker 2: for the fences, Aaron judge five hundred feet. Sometimes you
[36:27] Speaker 2: strike out, and you know, Anthey Richinson, let's face it
[36:30] Speaker 2: looks like a whiff. YEA. Their GM comes out and says,
[36:33] Speaker 2: we got to bring in competition. If you're saying that
[36:35] Speaker 2: year three about the guy you drafted in the top five,
[36:37] Speaker 2: it's a problem. Ye trade. Lance was traded before whatever,
[36:40] Speaker 2: before year three started. So I think those two guys
[36:43] Speaker 2: serve as Jalen and where people talk themselves in on
[36:47] Speaker 2: Anthey Richardon and Chris Ballard wasn't alone. People really like
[36:50] Speaker 2: the kid. They that's you know Shador. These interviews people
[36:53] Speaker 2: said Anthony richards blew them away. We love them, And
[36:55] Speaker 2: I think Jalen Milro same type deal. Look at look
[36:58] Speaker 2: at the similar parallels of all the sabing quarterbacks. They
[37:02] Speaker 2: handle the room pretty well, right they walk in. You
[37:05] Speaker 2: go back to AJ mccaron, to the dude calling ESPN games, McElroy,
[37:10] Speaker 2: all the way through the group of the last five
[37:13] Speaker 2: six years. They all handle the room well. The problem
[37:17] Speaker 2: is that only goes so far. Can you complete the
[37:19] Speaker 2: eighteen yard out route right or you're gonna hit the
[37:22] Speaker 2: trainer on the sideline. And I think Jalen Milroe, like
[37:26] Speaker 2: Anthony Richinson, like I've learned this because I lean the
[37:29] Speaker 2: physical traits, the accuracy thing, it's just a non start.
[37:33] Speaker 2: The Josh Allen thing is a historic outlier, and I
[37:37] Speaker 2: think people kind of chase that. It's like, I don't
[37:40] Speaker 2: know if we're ever seeing that again in his story
[37:42] Speaker 2: right bouncing around begging people to sign it. It's just
[37:45] Speaker 2: he's just in his own little box. Yeah, you know so,
[37:49] Speaker 2: And I think everyone's kind of chasing that, like that's
[37:51] Speaker 2: not gonna happen again.
[38:00] Speaker 1: I want to talk about Jimmy Johnson. He retired on
[38:02] Speaker 1: my show today and he's got he made three Hall
[38:06] Speaker 1: of Fames, and I said it on the air as
[38:09] Speaker 1: Jimmy and I had great conversations about, you know, stuff
[38:12] Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Ninety percent of it didn't make the air,
[38:15] Speaker 1: and it was just good. Ninety percent of it was
[38:18] Speaker 1: just filler and information to me that I can then
[38:21] Speaker 1: pass on to the audience. But some stuff Jimmy told
[38:23] Speaker 1: me I would never pass on. And that's that's part
[38:26] Speaker 1: of what you and I do, Like we have sources,
[38:28] Speaker 1: we have friends, I protect them. Jimmy told me some
[38:31] Speaker 1: stories that are so outrageously funny that you could never repeat.
[38:37] Speaker 1: But you know, thinking about Jimmy Johnson, one of the
[38:41] Speaker 1: cool things about sports is it gets smarter over time.
[38:47] Speaker 1: And like, for instance, in basketball, now we shoot too
[38:50] Speaker 1: many threes, but for years, you know, somebody finally said,
[38:53] Speaker 1: you know, the math is way better. If you shoot
[38:56] Speaker 1: threes over twos, the math works out better. And you know,
[39:00] Speaker 1: it's like in baseball, you know what strikeouts, they're not
[39:04] Speaker 1: the end of the world. Ground balls are so just
[39:07] Speaker 1: you know, we have more efficiency, we have more numbers,
[39:10] Speaker 1: more math. You know, for years, the strikeout in baseball
[39:14] Speaker 1: was like, ah, the inning ender. No, the inning ender
[39:17] Speaker 1: is the ground ball. And you look at the NFL
[39:20] Speaker 1: as I don't think people some of our audience knows this,
[39:23] Speaker 1: but people did not make trades before Jimmy Johnson made
[39:27] Speaker 1: that herschel Walker deal. It was just so rare. Now
[39:30] Speaker 1: they make more trades by far than the NBA. And
[39:35] Speaker 1: do you take me back, because you obviously are younger
[39:37] Speaker 1: than me, I can remember the herschel Walker trade, and
[39:42] Speaker 1: again I may be dating myself. I can remember the
[39:46] Speaker 1: reaction people. I mean people celebrated the Minnesota Vikings like
[39:51] Speaker 1: they stole herschel Walker, And in the end, it is
[39:54] Speaker 1: the seminal moment that built the dynasty in Dallas. Tell
[40:01] Speaker 1: me your thoughts about that moment. Jimmy Johnson, what do
[40:04] Speaker 1: you remember him for?
[40:06] Speaker 2: Well, you know, growing up in northern California, the forty
[40:10] Speaker 2: nine Ers might as well have been the Yankee. I
[40:12] Speaker 2: was born in eighty four, so by the time I
[40:14] Speaker 2: was coming into my own as a sports fan ninety one,
[40:16] Speaker 2: ninety two, ninety three, I have vivid memories of watching
[40:20] Speaker 2: the NFC championship games that the forty nine Ers could
[40:24] Speaker 2: not win, and my father, like most forty nine Ers fans,
[40:28] Speaker 2: were not big Steve Young guys because Joe Montana might
[40:31] Speaker 2: as well have been Michael Jordan meets Jesus, and it
[40:34] Speaker 2: was not going well, and I just remember those teams
[40:38] Speaker 2: were so good. But in twenty twenty, the Super Bowl
[40:42] Speaker 2: was held in Miami and it was the forty nine
[40:44] Speaker 2: Ers in the Chiefs and Fox had it, and I
[40:47] Speaker 2: went to do a three and out podcast. You were there.
[40:50] Speaker 2: I was hung out in Miami for three or four days,
[40:52] Speaker 2: and I went to the Chiefs Hotel and I was
[40:54] Speaker 2: with some of the guys with the Chiefs and they said,
[40:57] Speaker 2: you'll never believe this. But yesterday Andy, because the Fox
[41:00] Speaker 2: guys came to practice, he had Jimmy talk to the team.
[41:04] Speaker 2: And most of these guys don't know Jimmy as a coach,
[41:08] Speaker 2: let alone like he was once upon a time, like
[41:11] Speaker 2: the best coach in the NFL and one of the
[41:13] Speaker 2: great like Pete Carroll right of the eighties and nineties
[41:16] Speaker 2: winning in college anna the pros and said, and these guys,
[41:20] Speaker 2: I mean, the guy telling me the story had been
[41:21] Speaker 2: in the NFL for twenty plus years, still on the
[41:23] Speaker 2: staff to this day, said he had never seen a
[41:28] Speaker 2: pre game. It wasn't in pregames, but you know it's
[41:29] Speaker 2: like Tuesday or Wednesday. Everyone the hair on the back
[41:33] Speaker 2: of their neck stood up. Like He's like, Jimmy doesn't
[41:37] Speaker 2: still got it. He could coach this team, lead us
[41:39] Speaker 2: out to the super Bowl, and he said, the place
[41:41] Speaker 2: went nuts. And it's just one of those personalities. And listen,
[41:46] Speaker 2: Jimmy's not the biggest guy. He always had. I mean,
[41:48] Speaker 2: I remember him as the head and shoulders guy when
[41:51] Speaker 2: when I was a kid on the commercials with his hair.
[41:53] Speaker 2: But he said, of all the people that coach read
[41:55] Speaker 2: and all the people that he's just seen come in
[41:57] Speaker 2: from the outside and give a speech, it wasn't even close.
[42:00] Speaker 2: That was the best thing that he's ever seen. And
[42:02] Speaker 2: I think some guys and this is like, I'm glad
[42:05] Speaker 2: that Sean McVeagh didn't go to Amazon. Like the NFL
[42:08] Speaker 2: benefited because Jimmy played a big role on Fox and
[42:11] Speaker 2: Fox getting the NFL changed the course of the NFL
[42:15] Speaker 2: business big picture, but they did lose I mean a
[42:19] Speaker 2: pretty special coach. I mean, it's cool to see Pete
[42:21] Speaker 2: Carroll come back, like these people belong and you talk,
[42:25] Speaker 2: you're around a guy like Jimmy, even those who were retired.
[42:28] Speaker 2: How often does he talk to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick?
[42:30] Speaker 2: Like those are his people? Yes, you know, he has
[42:33] Speaker 2: more in common with them than he does you know,
[42:36] Speaker 2: media people, even though he'll go down as one of
[42:38] Speaker 2: the great television personalities with a sport in the history
[42:41] Speaker 2: of the league. But yeah, I mean, I just remember
[42:44] Speaker 2: being this having described that that kind of speeds that
[42:49] Speaker 2: he gave to the team. Andy's no dummy, you know,
[42:51] Speaker 2: He's like, hey, Jimmy, you know, and he said it
[42:54] Speaker 2: was fantastic. But I remember Jimmy and those Cowboys beating
[42:57] Speaker 2: the forty nine I remember they beat him in a rainstorm,
[42:59] Speaker 2: I think the second straight NFC Championship game. And as
[43:02] Speaker 2: a kid, a lot of people thought that Steve Young.
[43:05] Speaker 2: I mean, can you imagine the story in twenty twenty five,
[43:09] Speaker 2: the version of getting rid of Joe Montana for Steve
[43:11] Speaker 2: Young and then constantly losing to this other team. So
[43:14] Speaker 2: it was a really big deal when I was a
[43:16] Speaker 2: kid of the Cowboys beating the forty nine ers.
[43:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
[43:19] Speaker 1: It was funny talking to Jimmy about the Miami days,
[43:22] Speaker 1: Miami Hurricanes and you know, the convicts against the Catholics,
[43:26] Speaker 1: and he was so proud about how many kids had
[43:29] Speaker 1: made like you know, the honor roll, and how he
[43:33] Speaker 1: was like, you know, people just thought we were a
[43:35] Speaker 1: bunch of dummies. He goes, He goes, we had a
[43:38] Speaker 1: lot of good students on that team. He goes, you know,
[43:41] Speaker 1: it was Miami. He goes, there were kids that like
[43:43] Speaker 1: to go out and chop it up, and he goes,
[43:46] Speaker 1: that was part of it. He goes, But he goes,
[43:49] Speaker 1: you don't he goes, cause I had to ask him
[43:51] Speaker 1: me one time, I may have been on the air
[43:54] Speaker 1: or off and I said, Like, if I said, what
[43:57] Speaker 1: is the one quality of a great team and asked
[44:00] Speaker 1: Jimmy this on more than one occasion, he always gave
[44:02] Speaker 1: the same answer. Intelligence. He goes, players have to be
[44:07] Speaker 1: willing to learn, learn quickly, and then develop. And he goes,
[44:13] Speaker 1: Guys that don't do their work, guys that just are
[44:17] Speaker 1: slow learners. He goes, it doesn't work. Great teams are
[44:20] Speaker 1: intelligent teams, and he goes because he goes, especially in
[44:23] Speaker 1: the NFL, the margins are so tight. This stuff all
[44:26] Speaker 1: comes down to situational football. Kansas City was not as
[44:29] Speaker 1: good as Philadelphia, but the last two years the Chiefs
[44:31] Speaker 1: have been so good situationally. That's just smart dudes who
[44:35] Speaker 1: have been around the Joe Tooneys and the Kelsey's and
[44:37] Speaker 1: the Mahomes. Those dudes have been around in big games.
[44:40] Speaker 1: So I mean, I think you brought you talked about
[44:42] Speaker 1: this the Kansas City Chiefs when they were miking them,
[44:44] Speaker 1: those players were like, you know, when they won that
[44:47] Speaker 1: Super Bowl post Tyreek Hiller like we just want we
[44:50] Speaker 1: barely even know the defense. Like the following year, it's like,
[44:53] Speaker 1: you know, so it's One of the things Jimmy Owa's
[44:55] Speaker 1: preached was you've got to have player. You cannot develop
[44:59] Speaker 1: players if they're not willing learners, if they're not willing
[45:04] Speaker 1: to put the time in with the playbook, with the schemes.
[45:07] Speaker 1: You need fast thinkers. And so he just wasn't about
[45:11] Speaker 1: getting players. I mean, he told me, those Miami teams,
[45:14] Speaker 1: he go, Colin, we struggled to get elite offensive linemen.
[45:19] Speaker 3: You know, he goes.
[45:20] Speaker 1: You know, places like New Jersey would have four or
[45:22] Speaker 1: five of those guys. He goes, we struggled to convince
[45:25] Speaker 1: them to come down to Miami. They're like, well, is
[45:27] Speaker 1: that a good school, And he's like, yes, he said. So,
[45:31] Speaker 1: you know, people forget that those Miami teams weren't stacked.
[45:35] Speaker 1: We weren't getting five star guys in the offensive line.
[45:37] Speaker 1: He goes, But our guys developed. And it's just I
[45:42] Speaker 1: got to tell you. If you're in your twenties, you
[45:44] Speaker 1: do not remember Jimmy Johnson's Miami Hurricanes, but they were.
[45:48] Speaker 1: You had to watch them when they played the big
[45:50] Speaker 1: games Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State. They had
[45:55] Speaker 1: they were the run in Rebels with Tark with Stacy
[45:58] Speaker 1: Augman and Larry Johnson. They were like outlaws in their
[46:01] Speaker 1: own sense, and it was unbelievable television.
[46:05] Speaker 2: I'd even say the Cowboys team he built, you know,
[46:08] Speaker 2: I mean we argue this a lot with could these
[46:11] Speaker 2: players play now or play before? I mean that offensive
[46:15] Speaker 2: line that just road graded for Emmon Smith with Troy,
[46:19] Speaker 2: with Michael Irvin, that offense was just I mean with
[46:25] Speaker 2: North Turner, who was really like a Sean McVay Kyle
[46:27] Speaker 2: Shanahan thirty years ago as an offensive coordinator. I mean
[46:29] Speaker 2: Troy Aikman still squares by him, but building that team,
[46:33] Speaker 2: I mean that move he made to then accumulate. And
[46:36] Speaker 2: this is back in the day, Like we don't have
[46:38] Speaker 2: this really anymore because there's a clear line of like
[46:40] Speaker 2: coach and GM, they kind of work together. These gms
[46:42] Speaker 2: are also famous, Like he was the GM, right, he
[46:45] Speaker 2: was the coach the GM, And that's what pissed Jerry off,
[46:49] Speaker 2: which I would say is one of the more famous
[46:51] Speaker 2: front office breakups in at least in my lifetime, Jimmy
[46:55] Speaker 2: Johnson and the forty nine ers kicking out Jim Harbaugh. Essentially,
[46:58] Speaker 2: it felt like those two huge personalities that you just
[47:02] Speaker 2: don't win. Like you get rid of a coach, people
[47:04] Speaker 2: are they will side with the coach who's a championship
[47:07] Speaker 2: level guy every single time. But I just remember those
[47:10] Speaker 2: Cowboys teams being so And the other thing is I
[47:13] Speaker 2: think people like big personalities or party guys. I mean
[47:17] Speaker 2: those Cowboy teams had they were run like a cocaine
[47:19] Speaker 2: ring with strippers and stuff. But even Dion, you know,
[47:22] Speaker 2: a huge personality. I remember asking Bobby April, who was
[47:25] Speaker 2: a special teams coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons in the
[47:27] Speaker 2: late eighties early nineties, about Dion. He said, listen, Deane
[47:30] Speaker 2: shooting music videos. He's doing all this stuff. He was
[47:33] Speaker 2: always the guy sitting in the front of you know,
[47:36] Speaker 2: our meeting. He learned anything I'd give him, he would
[47:40] Speaker 2: pick up like that. And on the practice field, I've
[47:43] Speaker 2: never seen a guy work harder. So I think sometimes
[47:46] Speaker 2: these old school guys because like, oh Michael Jordan was
[47:48] Speaker 2: drinking all the time, we'll get on the practice court
[47:50] Speaker 2: with him. Oh Michael Irvin hasn't slept, Lawrence Taylor hasn't
[47:54] Speaker 2: slept well. Then practice starts like they are. There is
[47:58] Speaker 2: no rep off, there's no low management with these guys.
[48:01] Speaker 2: Different breed, you know, different time, different breed. But when
[48:04] Speaker 2: I think of those teams, I just think of like
[48:06] Speaker 2: you could put those teams right now in twenty twenty
[48:09] Speaker 2: five and they would wreck shop.
[48:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are you know, it's funny Lawrence Taylor, A,
[48:15] Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, and Michael Irvin. I've always I've known guys,
[48:19] Speaker 1: not many, but I've known a handful of guys that
[48:21] Speaker 1: they're just wired different. They got different genetics, and they
[48:25] Speaker 1: can play thirty six holes of golf in South Carolina
[48:28] Speaker 1: and August and go out and party till midnight and
[48:31] Speaker 1: they're up at six and they can do it like
[48:33] Speaker 1: four straight days.
[48:34] Speaker 3: I do it once. I'm wrecked.
[48:35] Speaker 2: I mean, some people need less sleep. You know, some
[48:37] Speaker 2: people do not need three or four you know, Kobe
[48:39] Speaker 2: Bryant was notorious, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Andy Reid, Like,
[48:43] Speaker 2: these guys aren't sleeping eight nine out. They don't need it.
[48:46] Speaker 2: I need eight hours to function more in mind to work.
[48:48] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[48:49] Speaker 1: By the way, I was talking about this, We'll wrap
[48:53] Speaker 1: with this and again we have Marcus Thompson, who covers
[48:57] Speaker 1: the Warriors later this week. Michael Mulvahill, who does research
[49:00] Speaker 1: and analytics for Fox. Will be on later this week.
[49:02] Speaker 1: He's I bring him on once a year. He's got
[49:04] Speaker 1: great insight and every time I bring him on, people
[49:07] Speaker 1: just love Mike Moulhill.
[49:09] Speaker 3: So he'll be on later this week.
[49:11] Speaker 2: I'd say there's not a human alive beside in the
[49:14] Speaker 2: Curry family that knows Steph better and probably as a
[49:16] Speaker 2: closer relationship with Steph Curry than Marcos tops.
[49:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, he's mad, a great storyteller, such a good dude.
[49:23] Speaker 1: So as you know, I'm moving some of my operations
[49:25] Speaker 1: to Chicago, and you know what I've found really funny
[49:30] Speaker 1: And listen, I don't my wife was not a fan
[49:33] Speaker 1: of LA, but we both.
[49:34] Speaker 3: I like LA.
[49:36] Speaker 1: I love California. I love Californians. I'm gonna move to Chicago.
[49:40] Speaker 1: Don't love the weather, but whatever. But you know about
[49:42] Speaker 1: the traffic, the taxes, the Yeah, I mean, listen, it's
[49:45] Speaker 1: it's a big city. It's I compare it to Rome.
[49:48] Speaker 1: It's just it's a lot, it's spread out, it's it
[49:52] Speaker 1: could take you two hours to drive across town. Yeah,
[49:54] Speaker 1: the taxes are expensive. I lived in Connecticut. Taxes weren't
[49:57] Speaker 1: cheap there. I like California I like people. There's a
[50:01] Speaker 1: lot I like about it. But we have a place
[50:03] Speaker 1: in the birds in Chicago. But it was funny. You know,
[50:06] Speaker 1: people will come up, but why are you moving here?
[50:08] Speaker 1: You know, I'll just say, yeah, you know, my wife's
[50:10] Speaker 1: got family here. I found myself this weekend defending California
[50:14] Speaker 1: and I said this to somebody. I said, listen, you
[50:17] Speaker 1: ever been on Google? Ever watched Netflix? You ever watch YouTube?
[50:22] Speaker 1: You ever used docu sign? And I started naming these companies.
[50:25] Speaker 1: I'm like, they're all California founded and based, and there's
[50:28] Speaker 1: a lot of smart people that built those and despite
[50:31] Speaker 1: the taxes and regulations, they still built. Like the six
[50:35] Speaker 1: of the ten biggest companies in America are California based.
[50:38] Speaker 1: And it's funny you live in California and there's so
[50:41] Speaker 1: much I love about it. I do think it's outrageously expensive,
[50:45] Speaker 1: and I do think there's a lot of waste, and
[50:47] Speaker 1: the politics can get very wacky and Sacramento. But I
[50:52] Speaker 1: thought of you when I defended him. After I thought,
[50:54] Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask middle Coff. You moved out of California
[50:58] Speaker 1: and you're happy getting married soon, You're very very happy.
[51:03] Speaker 1: How do you look at leaving California. Do you miss
[51:05] Speaker 1: it ever?
[51:06] Speaker 2: No, I think it's the best move I've ever made
[51:09] Speaker 2: without hesitation in my adult life. I would say there
[51:15] Speaker 2: is a big difference between southern California and northern California. Yeah,
[51:18] Speaker 2: I mean you can get a lot more sun than
[51:20] Speaker 2: we got up there, and the prices are the same
[51:22] Speaker 2: and depend on where it could be. Palo Alto in
[51:24] Speaker 2: some of these areas Danville, I mean are most expensive
[51:26] Speaker 2: areas in like the world. Yeah, so you factor in
[51:30] Speaker 2: a lot of that. I do wonder big picture with California. Listen.
[51:33] Speaker 2: I got a brother who has a farming operation, like
[51:36] Speaker 2: he's gonna He's thirty five years old. He'll be there
[51:38] Speaker 2: the rest of his life. My mother lives there, my
[51:40] Speaker 2: friends and family live there. I go back there to
[51:42] Speaker 2: see these people. I do wonder Silicon Valley, which I
[51:46] Speaker 2: would say change the state financially, put it in a
[51:49] Speaker 2: different stratugy here those companies that you go back to,
[51:53] Speaker 2: you know, Apple and the companies in the eighties and
[51:55] Speaker 2: nineties that have taken off. And listen, I have a
[51:57] Speaker 2: lot of friends. When I graduated from cal it was
[52:01] Speaker 2: seven eight range. A lot of my friends went to
[52:03] Speaker 2: work in northern California for startup companies that turn or
[52:08] Speaker 2: early iterations of the facebooks right or you know Oracle
[52:13] Speaker 2: as it was really taken off in these companies and
[52:15] Speaker 2: they have financially the windfall that they've had at through
[52:18] Speaker 2: their thirties is you know, like being a backup point guard.
[52:22] Speaker 2: I mean, some of these it's been incredible. Are these
[52:25] Speaker 2: companies in twenty twenty five? You know the version of
[52:29] Speaker 2: Facebook or whoever going to start in Silicon Valley give
[52:33] Speaker 2: it how expensive it is to run your business there
[52:35] Speaker 2: and get people to come. And I just wonder, I mean,
[52:39] Speaker 2: you see what's happening in Florida, in Texas, in Vegas
[52:43] Speaker 2: and here in Arizona that it is so much more
[52:46] Speaker 2: lucrative if I was going to start a company the
[52:48] Speaker 2: version of what these have become. And that's the mindset
[52:51] Speaker 2: of all these people in Silicon Valley. It is so
[52:54] Speaker 2: much cheaper just to do it in Austin or in
[52:57] Speaker 2: Miami or And I just wonder, big pick sure the
[53:00] Speaker 2: Silicon Valley shift. I mean, you've seen it with Hollywood,
[53:03] Speaker 2: right that the movies, at least to my knowledge and
[53:05] Speaker 2: reading articles, are not shot there like they once were
[53:08] Speaker 2: right because it's so much cheaper. I have a buddy
[53:10] Speaker 2: that listens to this podcast that is the lead in
[53:12] Speaker 2: suits La. They shot that thing in Canada.
[53:14] Speaker 3: Yeah right, No, No, I just.
[53:18] Speaker 2: Wonder, now there's historically there's always shifts back and forth. Yeah,
[53:22] Speaker 2: and you and I've spent time. You spent more time.
[53:24] Speaker 2: But I live in Philly for a couple of years.
[53:26] Speaker 2: I do feel like the wiring of those people. It
[53:29] Speaker 2: goes back and forth too. But they will draw a
[53:31] Speaker 2: hard line in the sand. Yeah, in California. I don't
[53:34] Speaker 2: know if you could ever get the complete pullback. I
[53:36] Speaker 2: don't know it's gonna be. It's gonna be a huge,
[53:40] Speaker 2: I don't want to say experiment, but it's gonna be
[53:41] Speaker 2: fascinating to watch over the next ten years. Can they
[53:44] Speaker 2: shift back because they're gonna have to to keep these coming?
[53:46] Speaker 2: They have the Apples, the Facebook's and oracles that they are.
[53:49] Speaker 2: They're there, But what about the new versions of these
[53:51] Speaker 2: companies over the next twenty thirty to fifty years. Will
[53:54] Speaker 2: they start and grow and come to fruition under their watch?
[53:59] Speaker 2: Or they have being in Vegas or in Dallas, Texas,
[54:02] Speaker 2: or in Glendale, Arizona, I don't know.
[54:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think it's it's a good point. We
[54:07] Speaker 1: we thought five years ago that all these companies like
[54:10] Speaker 1: Apple and Meta were far left, and to your point,
[54:13] Speaker 1: they drew a line in the sand, and those guys
[54:16] Speaker 1: were all sitting down with Elon Musk, you know, Inauguration Day,
[54:22] Speaker 1: like front and center making a statement. So I think
[54:28] Speaker 1: with big business there's always a line in the sand.
[54:30] Speaker 3: People.
[54:31] Speaker 1: I've said this before. You know, Bob Iger privately of
[54:33] Speaker 1: Disney is more conservative than he is publicly because he
[54:37] Speaker 1: runs an entertainment company and you kind of have to
[54:39] Speaker 1: lean left publicly, but privately you have to do business.
[54:43] Speaker 1: You know, you have you know, there's decisions you have
[54:45] Speaker 1: to make that you're not going to announce.
[54:48] Speaker 3: But you know, it's just interesting.
[54:50] Speaker 1: As I was, I was talking about California and and
[54:52] Speaker 1: and you know my life. My wife wasn't a big
[54:54] Speaker 1: fan of Los Angeles, my son wasn't. It's okay, I mean,
[54:57] Speaker 1: it's just a big city. But it is interesting when
[55:00] Speaker 1: when you say you're from California to people outside of California, man,
[55:05] Speaker 1: they have strong opinions. It's almost like the NBA, like
[55:08] Speaker 1: people don't even have to watch the NBA. They're going
[55:10] Speaker 1: to give their opinion of the NBA. And that's how
[55:13] Speaker 1: I feel when I'm in the Midwest. How California is.
[55:16] Speaker 1: People have been to it twice once It's Disneyland when
[55:18] Speaker 1: they were eight, and they got a big opinion on it.
[55:21] Speaker 2: Obviously, a lot of people in my life, I would say,
[55:23] Speaker 2: live in the greater San Francisco area, yeah, and have
[55:27] Speaker 2: for a long period of time and live good lives.
[55:30] Speaker 2: I do think they would be shocked to hear the
[55:33] Speaker 2: common theme the way humans talk about San Francisco. I
[55:38] Speaker 2: would say San Francisco is a more polarizing conversation in Chicago,
[55:41] Speaker 2: in Kansas City and than Los Angeles'. Yeah, yeah, right.
[55:45] Speaker 2: I would say San Francisco right now is probably viewed
[55:48] Speaker 2: by the average dude as the most toxic place in
[55:53] Speaker 2: America in terms of just polarizing of crazy listeness.
[55:57] Speaker 1: I went to a Super Bowl in San Francisco. I
[55:59] Speaker 1: stayed at the Mark Hotel, which is like on top
[56:01] Speaker 1: of a hill. And again, I think people listen to me.
[56:05] Speaker 1: I'm kind of a moderate independent. I can lean left
[56:07] Speaker 1: on social stuff right on fiscal stuff. I didn't walk
[56:12] Speaker 1: around much at night, and this was is that eight
[56:16] Speaker 1: years ago? Like I remember being there seventeen. Yeah, I
[56:19] Speaker 1: remember being there and thinking this is not the same place,
[56:24] Speaker 1: at least not in this neighborhood.
[56:25] Speaker 3: And I went to the.
[56:26] Speaker 1: Same restaurant twice, the same piano bar twice. And no,
[56:30] Speaker 1: I'm I mean, listen, I'm I'm not somebody that just
[56:32] Speaker 1: I'm not somebody that listens to a lot of conservative
[56:35] Speaker 1: radio and I'm not here with the talking points. But
[56:38] Speaker 1: it's been really fascinating for me to you know, moving
[56:40] Speaker 1: some operation to Chicago and listening to people have an
[56:43] Speaker 1: opinion on California, and you know a lot of times
[56:46] Speaker 1: I just I just consume it. I'm fascinated, but it
[56:49] Speaker 1: is Boy, do people have an opinion.
[56:50] Speaker 2: Man. I think the other thing people would be shocked
[56:54] Speaker 2: about is the amount of money that your average employer,
[57:00] Speaker 2: as some of these places at Facebook and Oracle that
[57:02] Speaker 2: are my age right late thirties, early forties make I mean,
[57:06] Speaker 2: it's the money there. And this is why listen, a
[57:09] Speaker 2: lot of my friends don't love definitely the politics there,
[57:12] Speaker 2: and you know, they have young children in the school system.
[57:14] Speaker 2: Things can be really wacky, but it's really hard to
[57:17] Speaker 2: find eight hundred thousand dollars jobs. You know, when you're
[57:20] Speaker 2: a state school graduate, you know at these places that
[57:23] Speaker 2: you've been at for a long time, and you know
[57:25] Speaker 2: these the companies. You know, for my generation that graduated
[57:28] Speaker 2: into the financial crisis, the boom of Silicon Valley changed
[57:32] Speaker 2: a lot of people in my world's life. Now I'm
[57:35] Speaker 2: working in football making nothing as they are just taking
[57:37] Speaker 2: off like a rocket ship. And one thing I've heard
[57:40] Speaker 2: over the last I would say, six months, is they
[57:43] Speaker 2: are laying people off constantly. They go, what do you there?
[57:46] Speaker 2: They're doing the elim So what do you do? You know,
[57:49] Speaker 2: because you start, you lay off ten employees, you could
[57:51] Speaker 2: be you know, if they average compensation seven hundred and
[57:54] Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars, they can add up pretty fast. Yeah.
[57:57] Speaker 2: And you know, as they got so big that you
[57:59] Speaker 2: weren't paying at ten over the last couple of years,
[58:01] Speaker 2: I think and listen, Elon takes a lot of shit.
[58:03] Speaker 2: When he bought Twitter, he basically did, what's everyone doing here?
[58:06] Speaker 2: This place isn't making any money? And secretly, I think
[58:09] Speaker 2: everyone else in Silicon Valley kind of was able to
[58:11] Speaker 2: fall suit, like six months later, much quieter.
[58:13] Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a friend that works at Meta. Two
[58:15] Speaker 1: friends that work at Meta, and over the last three years,
[58:19] Speaker 1: Zuckerberg has gone into hyper efficiency mode, like he is.
[58:23] Speaker 1: Just every meeting that's what they discuss. So yeah, I
[58:28] Speaker 1: think people look at elon, but I think it's a
[58:30] Speaker 1: trend in that part of that sector and that part
[58:34] Speaker 1: of the country is we got big, broad, sloppy and
[58:38] Speaker 1: layers of bureaucracy. We're getting out of it. And so
[58:42] Speaker 1: it's anyway, it's just it's our last topic today. John
[58:46] Speaker 1: Middlikoff three announced the podcast as a former Californian who
[58:50] Speaker 1: kicked to the curb and is now golfing in December
[58:54] Speaker 1: and Scottsdale and loving life.
[58:58] Speaker 2: Okay, take it easy, all.
[58:59] Speaker 3: Right, buddy.
[59:02] Speaker 2: The volume

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