# Pay Terry, Trade Parsons, Expectations For JJ McCarthy? Antonio Gates HoF Career, Why Undrafted Players Become Stars

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 4 Aug 2025, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/0786c3b9-08bd-4e4d-b842-b32f003e81e5/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk all things NFL! They start with sharing their favorite summer vacation spots (3:30) before pivoting to the Vikings where Colin predicts J.J. McCarthy’s success might mirror Brock Purdy’s due to the high level of talent and coaching surrounding him (7:30). They highlight McCarthy having a similar situation at Michigan and why the best NFL quarterbacks tend to come from less prestigious programs (12:00). They compare the AFC and NFC and argue that the top of the AFC is better, but the NFC is the deeper conference (15:45) and preview what the expectations should be for the Chicago Bears (17:15). Colin argues that the Commanders should pay Terry McLaurin (32:00), the Cowboys should trade Micah Parsons rather than pay him (39:00). They predict major turmoil between the Bengals and Joe Burrow if they miss the playoffs after yet another ugly offseason contract squabble (48:00). They look back on the Hall of Fame career of Antonio Gates after his induction into Canton (58:00) and discuss why the NFL is the only league where late round and undrafted players regularly become stars (1:02:00). Finally, Colin explains his passion for his newfound hobby… golf (1:18:00)! (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:16] Speaker 1: I am literally just off a plane. Can I have
[0:20] Speaker 1: my only complain of Chicago so far? So you're gonna
[0:25] Speaker 1: be joining me this weekend for the live tour stop
[0:29] Speaker 1: in Chicago. That oh hair. First of all, Hair is
[0:32] Speaker 1: about an hour from downtown. It could be worse, a
[0:35] Speaker 1: little better, a little worse, depending on the traffic. But
[0:38] Speaker 1: when you land in Chicago and I don't know where
[0:42] Speaker 1: it is, like la it always felt lax. It was
[0:44] Speaker 1: about ten minutes. Your taxi can be twenty five minutes.
[0:48] Speaker 1: Today it was twenty eight once we landed, twenty eight
[0:52] Speaker 1: minutes to get.
[0:53] Speaker 2: To the gate.
[0:54] Speaker 1: It's just such a damn big airport.
[0:57] Speaker 2: Now.
[0:57] Speaker 1: United is almost always better than American. It doesn't have
[1:00] Speaker 1: any presents here. A little Jet Blue maybe, but so
[1:04] Speaker 1: that's why I'm scrambling to get on the air.
[1:07] Speaker 2: Thank god.
[1:07] Speaker 1: I sat and read for two hours on my flight.
[1:11] Speaker 1: By the way, when you live in Phoenix, when you
[1:13] Speaker 1: live in Arizona, so in Chicago, I head to Rhode
[1:16] Speaker 1: Island and take some time off. Where do you go
[1:19] Speaker 1: in the summer?
[1:21] Speaker 2: We usually just go. I mean I've been here now
[1:23] Speaker 2: three years for the most part. Because her family is
[1:26] Speaker 2: back in Sacramento, Bay area, Tahoe. You know, we go
[1:30] Speaker 2: back there, so mainly to Tahoe, but it's to see
[1:33] Speaker 2: our parents, our moms, our brothers. Her brother lives in Reno,
[1:39] Speaker 2: just had a baby. My brother has a couple of
[1:41] Speaker 2: young kids, he's younger than me, lives in the Sacramento area.
[1:44] Speaker 2: So we usually go back to California, which is an
[1:46] Speaker 2: easy The good thing with Phoenix, you know, Phoenix to Vegas, Phoenix, La,
[1:50] Speaker 2: Phoenix to the Sacramento Bay area. These are all very
[1:53] Speaker 2: easy flights. So for the most part, I haven't ventured,
[1:56] Speaker 2: you know, your way up until I went to the
[2:00] Speaker 2: Texas Oklahoma game last year and I got married in Nashville.
[2:03] Speaker 2: I guess so. But again I would say this for Phoenix.
[2:05] Speaker 2: The airport's kind of poorly built, but it is relatively efficient.
[2:09] Speaker 2: You know, I lived at Philly for a couple of years.
[2:11] Speaker 2: That could be a shit show. San Francisco can be
[2:14] Speaker 2: just outrageous, obviously, Lax. You know, it just depends. And
[2:18] Speaker 2: like you said about Chicago and Philly was like this.
[2:21] Speaker 2: A lot of the East Coast areas when they would
[2:23] Speaker 2: get these storms, especially in the winter, can just derail
[2:27] Speaker 2: the Phoenix I mean, most people are flying in. I
[2:30] Speaker 2: would say, obviously we get people flying in from the
[2:32] Speaker 2: Midwest or the Northeast, but it's a lot of West
[2:36] Speaker 2: coast travel.
[2:37] Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I'll listen for anybody that's not been to
[2:39] Speaker 1: Lake Tahoe, I highly recommend it in the summer. It
[2:42] Speaker 1: is an unbelievable gem in North America. It reminds me
[2:45] Speaker 1: a little bit of bamf up in Canada, Calgary, where
[2:49] Speaker 1: it's just it just doesn't look like anything else you've
[2:51] Speaker 1: ever been to.
[2:52] Speaker 2: So I can you go. Did you go with Kelly
[2:55] Speaker 2: James to Court of Ball a couple of years ago?
[2:58] Speaker 1: Kelly James courtA Lane to Corner Lane?
[3:01] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[3:01] Speaker 1: That that concert's crazy. He's just stun He's the absolute stuff.
[3:08] Speaker 1: Look him up, folks. So listen. I my takeaway on
[3:12] Speaker 1: all these camps because I kind of when I go
[3:14] Speaker 1: on vacation, I watch a little bit, but I you know,
[3:17] Speaker 1: I am golfing, I am cocktail and I am you know,
[3:21] Speaker 1: with the dogs and my wife and hanging out. When
[3:25] Speaker 1: I watch all this camp stuff, I will say, I
[3:29] Speaker 1: do I think there are grains of truth in everything.
[3:32] Speaker 1: I think you can edit it anyway you want. I
[3:34] Speaker 1: don't think it means everything. I think there's something I'm
[3:40] Speaker 1: gonna still stick with my prediction that JJ McCarthy will
[3:46] Speaker 1: if he does have success. It's a little bit of
[3:49] Speaker 1: a rock pretty thing. It's the coach, it's the left tackle,
[3:52] Speaker 1: it's the weapons that will put him in a place
[3:55] Speaker 1: that I think elevates him beyond what he would be
[3:57] Speaker 1: with average personnel, average co coach or bad. I don't
[4:01] Speaker 1: think brock Purty's good enough to save a bad situation.
[4:04] Speaker 1: But I think in the current situation with Trent Williams,
[4:07] Speaker 1: Kittle Jennings, like Shanahan McCaffrey, I think more than capable,
[4:13] Speaker 1: I tend to think McCarthy's going to fall into that.
[4:15] Speaker 1: I mean left tackle, head coach, running back, tight end.
[4:20] Speaker 1: I think I think JJ McCarthy would have to be
[4:24] Speaker 1: bad not to have some Brock pretty level success where
[4:28] Speaker 1: you know, he's not a physical specimen, but he can
[4:30] Speaker 1: complete passes and move the chains.
[4:32] Speaker 2: I do think though he you know, brock Purty got
[4:34] Speaker 2: to come in toward middle of the end of the year, right,
[4:38] Speaker 2: so there was less pressure, and let's face it, when
[4:40] Speaker 2: Jimmy Garoppolo shattered his ankle, that the expectations for brock
[4:44] Speaker 2: Purty were zilch. I mean I thought their season was over, yeah,
[4:47] Speaker 2: and then the kids just started rattling off games. You know.
[4:50] Speaker 2: For JJ McCarthy, a little like Trey Lance when the
[4:53] Speaker 2: forty nine ers drafted him, kind of like Caleb, but
[4:56] Speaker 2: we didn't really believe in Eberflus. It's pretty rare that
[4:59] Speaker 2: a guy was drafted pretty high starts on a team
[5:02] Speaker 2: that what do you think is a fair expectations anything
[5:05] Speaker 2: less than the NFC Championship game, with their roster, their
[5:08] Speaker 2: coaching staff, it's really really high. You know, it's not
[5:11] Speaker 2: like nine to eight and some growing pains. You know,
[5:15] Speaker 2: justin Jefferson had some comments within the last week. You
[5:18] Speaker 2: can just tell it's like our expectations here high and
[5:21] Speaker 2: it's like this is a work in progress. Now. The
[5:24] Speaker 2: good thing is you can get better, right He might
[5:27] Speaker 2: not be same with Caleb, same with a lot of
[5:28] Speaker 2: these guys. What they look like in September, they might
[5:31] Speaker 2: look a lot better in November. But it can go
[5:33] Speaker 2: the other way too. It can break you. So if
[5:35] Speaker 2: you have a couple of tough games, how do you
[5:37] Speaker 2: handle that adversity? That's that's really what all the NFL
[5:40] Speaker 2: is right, is handling the tough times to get to
[5:43] Speaker 2: the better times.
[5:44] Speaker 1: I was reading somebody in the Athletic rank the coaching staffs,
[5:47] Speaker 1: and I didn't disagree. He had Minnesota as the best
[5:49] Speaker 1: coaching staff in the league. I think he had San
[5:51] Speaker 1: Francisco with Kyle and solid two.
[5:54] Speaker 2: Are you talking the whole staff?
[5:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean basically head coach, top two coordinators. He
[5:59] Speaker 1: had Minnesota number one. And I think, and I've said
[6:02] Speaker 1: this about Brock Purty. I mean literally he got the
[6:05] Speaker 1: keys to a Mercedes. You get Shanahan, McCaffrey, Trent Williams
[6:08] Speaker 1: at the time, Debo I U Kittle. I mean that's
[6:12] Speaker 1: hard to mess up. I mean, if you're just capable,
[6:14] Speaker 1: if you're quick above the shoulders, which I think JJ
[6:16] Speaker 1: McCarthy and Brock Pertty are. I think they're smart guys.
[6:21] Speaker 1: The downside to it is it's not it's a hard
[6:26] Speaker 1: eval It's hard to evaluate somebody when they're I mean
[6:30] Speaker 1: it would be like putting somebody with Charles Barkley, Shack
[6:35] Speaker 1: and Ernie Johnson. It's hard to really say what. Kenny
[6:38] Speaker 1: Smith is certainly capable, but his role on that show
[6:43] Speaker 1: is to kind of poke the bear and just kind
[6:45] Speaker 1: of have fun and be the straight man, and so
[6:48] Speaker 1: it is hard to make it. It's an easy evaluation
[6:51] Speaker 1: on Jaden Daniels last year. Oh shit, he's carrying a
[6:55] Speaker 1: bad oldline, a defensive coach, a one weapon offense. Wow.
[7:00] Speaker 1: It's like Andrew luck easy or Herbert's rookie year. Wow,
[7:04] Speaker 1: this is impressive. I think JJ's gonna be a hard
[7:08] Speaker 1: evaluation because how much of the success is based on
[7:12] Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest. Last year, in Week fourteen,
[7:16] Speaker 1: Sam Darnald was first or second in MVP. He was
[7:19] Speaker 1: a bust going to Minnesota. So like, like now, I
[7:24] Speaker 1: don't even know quite what to make of Donald. What
[7:27] Speaker 1: is Donald?
[7:28] Speaker 2: Well, I'm pretty high, I think Donald. I think their
[7:30] Speaker 2: team's gonna be pretty good, you know, giving health, the
[7:33] Speaker 2: talent in Seattle, I would expect, you know, pretty high
[7:36] Speaker 2: things for Sam. Maybe not throw thirty five touchdowns, but
[7:38] Speaker 2: to just be a solid player in the NFL moving forward,
[7:41] Speaker 2: you know, be a guy that's on the good side
[7:44] Speaker 2: of the top fifteen of the quarterbacks, not you know,
[7:46] Speaker 2: somewhere between twenty two and thirty two, like most people
[7:50] Speaker 2: thought he just sucked. But one thing, going back to Donald.
[7:52] Speaker 2: He said the change his career was not just Kyle
[7:55] Speaker 2: believing him, but watching Rock pretty operate. And the thing
[7:59] Speaker 2: that's separated to brock Purty immediately was not his height,
[8:02] Speaker 2: was not his arm strength. It was all the intangible
[8:05] Speaker 2: stuff which he had built for four years at let's
[8:09] Speaker 2: face it, when he got there kind of an average
[8:11] Speaker 2: football program that him and Matt Campbell transitioned into a
[8:15] Speaker 2: high level football program where he was getting offered by
[8:18] Speaker 2: USC And the big reason was because of brock Purty,
[8:21] Speaker 2: you know. I mean, let's face it, Mel Tucker got
[8:24] Speaker 2: some big jobs because you know, got a huge extension
[8:26] Speaker 2: because of Kenneth Walker. Sometimes one or two individuals at
[8:30] Speaker 2: not the top tier programs can change the course of
[8:33] Speaker 2: your career. So brock Purdy, his intangibles are a huge
[8:37] Speaker 2: separating factor for why you know, all the guys with
[8:40] Speaker 2: the forty nine ers, coaches and players believe in them,
[8:43] Speaker 2: you know, JJ, He's just gonna have to prove it,
[8:45] Speaker 2: you know, and it's gonna have to be part of
[8:47] Speaker 2: his repertoire. Are you getting there at five in the morning,
[8:50] Speaker 2: Are you grinding Monday through Saturday? Because that's all these quarterbacks,
[8:54] Speaker 2: that's all they talk about. It's not just the grind on.
[8:57] Speaker 2: Tom Brady's been talking about Mondays and Tuesdays for fifteen years.
[9:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's I think one of the things
[9:05] Speaker 1: that Brock Purdy had a real live and we're talking
[9:07] Speaker 1: here JJ McCarthy brock Purty. The comp is, you know,
[9:10] Speaker 1: they're a little smaller than you'd like, they don't have
[9:12] Speaker 1: huge arms. There were questions about both one's first round
[9:16] Speaker 1: pick and I think a bit overdrafted. One's a seventh
[9:20] Speaker 1: round pick, clearly underdrafted. But the one thing that brock
[9:25] Speaker 1: Purty had on JJ McCarthy, Brock had to carry pretty
[9:28] Speaker 1: average players. Now he had Breese Hall, but by and
[9:31] Speaker 1: large it was Iowa State guys, whereas JJ McCarthy was
[9:35] Speaker 1: carried by the best online in football, a loaded roster.
[9:39] Speaker 1: And I've always said this, John, I've been saying. I
[9:41] Speaker 1: wrote about this in my first book. You would think
[9:44] Speaker 1: it's very linear. You know, USC should have twenty five
[9:47] Speaker 1: great NFL quarterbacks in the history of the NFL. They
[9:50] Speaker 1: have one, Carson Palmer. Is that you would think LSU
[9:54] Speaker 1: has fifteen or Bama's got twelve and Ohio State has fourteen.
[9:58] Speaker 1: They don't because It's an advantage in college to go
[10:03] Speaker 1: to col like Goff and Aaron Rodgers, or go to
[10:06] Speaker 1: NC State like Russell Wilson did for three years of
[10:09] Speaker 1: Philip Rivers because you don't throw to five star receivers
[10:12] Speaker 1: and you're always hurried like Matt Ryan or Big Band
[10:15] Speaker 1: Big Ben at Ohio State would have sat in that
[10:18] Speaker 1: pocket for days. Miami of Ohio. He had to be
[10:20] Speaker 1: the playmaker. So the advantage Brock Purtty has is, dude,
[10:24] Speaker 1: I'm carrying. I'm carrying mostly average dudes, right like when
[10:29] Speaker 1: you face Oklahoma. Oklahoma the twenty two starters has nineteen
[10:34] Speaker 1: guys would start on Iowa State's roster. And so one
[10:38] Speaker 1: of the things about JJ McCarthy, my biggest question, he's
[10:42] Speaker 1: never once had to carry a football team.
[10:47] Speaker 2: I think in a perfect world, JJ McCarthy honestly his
[10:50] Speaker 2: comp also ironically with forty nine ers a little Jimmy Garoppolo,
[10:54] Speaker 2: just in terms of like playing in the sense of
[10:56] Speaker 2: not carrying the team. His physical skills pretty solid. JJ's
[10:59] Speaker 2: a better athlete, But look at Jimmy, who was drafted
[11:02] Speaker 2: in the second round, got to sit learn, was not
[11:06] Speaker 2: thrust into anything obviously benefited from Tom Brady. You know,
[11:09] Speaker 2: JG's getting thrown into this thing. Imagine if Jimmy Garoppolo
[11:12] Speaker 2: had just been thrown on the Patriots like year two,
[11:14] Speaker 2: you're his career. I mean, who knows, maybe it would
[11:18] Speaker 2: have gone well, but it could have gone. It was
[11:19] Speaker 2: an intense environment, not quite that because they had been
[11:22] Speaker 2: winning championships and obviously Kirk Cousins is not and Sam
[11:27] Speaker 2: Donald are not Tom Brady, but there is an intensity
[11:30] Speaker 2: with everyone in football going, yeah, it's one of the
[11:32] Speaker 2: best rosters in the league, if not the best. Oh yeah,
[11:35] Speaker 2: and if you do the coordinator combo, which the head
[11:37] Speaker 2: coach and Brian Flores, that's as good as it gets.
[11:41] Speaker 2: So we just saw him last year. You know, they
[11:43] Speaker 2: had all those injuries toward the end of the season,
[11:45] Speaker 2: and Sam you know, didn't play great either, but that
[11:48] Speaker 2: O line injuries with Sam Donald, like he just kind
[11:50] Speaker 2: of crumbled at the end. But at least they were
[11:52] Speaker 2: in the fight. I mean, they were going into the
[11:54] Speaker 2: last game with four and think of all of the
[11:56] Speaker 2: big plays, I mean a huge part. I remember watching
[11:58] Speaker 2: Sam Donald's entered uy press conference and one of the
[12:01] Speaker 2: questions they asked Mike McDonald was how big of an
[12:05] Speaker 2: evaluation process was that game that he played against you
[12:08] Speaker 2: and threw that touchdown to basically knock you out of
[12:11] Speaker 2: the playoffs. He's obviously I had a front row seat,
[12:13] Speaker 2: and I'm the defense of Guru. I mean, he didn't
[12:15] Speaker 2: exactly say this, but he's the defense is my baby,
[12:18] Speaker 2: and he's eating me alive. So how could it not
[12:22] Speaker 2: play a part? Now, you gotta be careful with that.
[12:23] Speaker 2: It was the aggregate body of work over the course
[12:25] Speaker 2: of the season. But I Sam loronand through thirty five
[12:29] Speaker 2: touchdowns last year, I know, like Matt Stafford through twenty,
[12:33] Speaker 2: So that's there's just a lot of pressure on JJ.
[12:37] Speaker 2: It's gonna be hard to just have a season where
[12:38] Speaker 2: you throw twenty touchdowns, especially as a young player. You're
[12:43] Speaker 2: probably gonna throw some picks and have a record that's competing.
[12:46] Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to make the playoffs. The NFC
[12:49] Speaker 2: might not have beside the Eagles, maybe not the powerhouses
[12:52] Speaker 2: of like the Bills the way you've beens and the Chiefs,
[12:55] Speaker 2: but I think they go ten deep of teams that
[12:57] Speaker 2: are just gonna be tough. Yeah.
[12:58] Speaker 1: No, there was a two year win and I've used
[13:01] Speaker 1: the Cowboys as an example, there was about a three
[13:03] Speaker 1: year window when the AFC hit on all these good
[13:07] Speaker 1: quarterbacks Burrow Lamar, Josh Herbert. It's about a three year
[13:12] Speaker 1: window the AFC was noticeably better than the NFC, and
[13:17] Speaker 1: now it's not. In fact, I think the AFC is
[13:20] Speaker 1: better at the top. I think the NFC's deeper. I
[13:23] Speaker 1: think there's just a lot. I mean, I think Tampa's
[13:26] Speaker 1: really good. I think the Rams, Seattle, the Niners. You
[13:30] Speaker 1: could argue everybody if the Bears hit is good. In
[13:32] Speaker 1: the NFC, North Philadelphia and Washington are excellent. So yeah,
[13:38] Speaker 1: I mean it's there's you start looking at Minnesota schedules,
[13:41] Speaker 1: there's not a lot of there's not a lot of layups.
[13:44] Speaker 1: You know, there's not a lot of part threes.
[13:46] Speaker 2: It is.
[13:46] Speaker 1: It's pretty rough. So I'm okay, And it's interesting because
[13:50] Speaker 1: I'm really I like watching young quarterbacks. I like there's
[13:54] Speaker 1: a lot in the NFL. I know, and you and
[13:56] Speaker 1: I know, like we know who the good coaches are.
[13:59] Speaker 1: We know Buffalo is going to be good. In Baltimore
[14:01] Speaker 1: and Kansas City, we just know that. We also know, like,
[14:04] Speaker 1: for instance, even the things we don't know, we're pretty
[14:07] Speaker 1: sure of Rabel and New England are to be massively improved.
[14:12] Speaker 1: Like we kind of feel that Sean Payton's got it
[14:14] Speaker 1: rolling in Denver, Chargers will probably take another step up.
[14:18] Speaker 1: Here's another team. The Raiders should be noticeably better just
[14:21] Speaker 1: on staffing and quarterback play. But the two teams that
[14:25] Speaker 1: we don't know a lot about and our Minnesota we
[14:29] Speaker 1: don't know McCarthy and Chicago, and Chicago could go either way.
[14:33] Speaker 1: So as I watched all these clips this weekend in
[14:37] Speaker 1: the last four or five days, my take is, whatever,
[14:43] Speaker 1: it's confirmation bias. I want Chicago to work. I live here,
[14:47] Speaker 1: I know Caleb. I'd love to see the Bears to
[14:50] Speaker 1: finally have a good offense. So I watched the clips
[14:52] Speaker 1: and I think, oh, he's dynamic. But if you're not
[14:55] Speaker 1: a Caleb Williams fan, you can see a lot of
[14:57] Speaker 1: clips and go this is not gonna work. Where are
[15:00] Speaker 1: you on what you've seen so far.
[15:03] Speaker 2: I don't even think it's just clips. I think it
[15:04] Speaker 2: goes back to the offseason when Ben Johnson's like, your
[15:07] Speaker 2: body language sucks, the way you carry yourself and get
[15:11] Speaker 2: off the ground is not good enough. And those are
[15:13] Speaker 2: things that young coaches, you know, first time coordinators that
[15:16] Speaker 2: become a head coach, especially offensive guys that can tend
[15:19] Speaker 2: to be a little more cerebral, can be a little
[15:21] Speaker 2: easier on guys. And I do have to wonder if
[15:24] Speaker 2: the last couple of years watching Dan Campbell again, I've
[15:28] Speaker 2: watched a lot of Ben Johnson's press conferences the last
[15:30] Speaker 2: couple weeks. He doesn't come. He's not like he's trying
[15:32] Speaker 2: to be Dan Campbell in terms of like in front
[15:34] Speaker 2: of the mic, some super tough guy, but clearly the
[15:37] Speaker 2: expectations and how hardy he's canceled some you know, they've
[15:40] Speaker 2: gone out and he sent them back Like I was like, damn,
[15:42] Speaker 2: this guy is not messing around. And it does feel
[15:44] Speaker 2: centered around the quarterback. That again, based on a clip
[15:49] Speaker 2: of watching him throw the ball into a net and
[15:51] Speaker 2: not even come close, You're like, not great. Here's what
[15:53] Speaker 2: we know though, historically, if you give a draft of
[15:57] Speaker 2: four quarterbacks and a couple of him become high end guys,
[16:01] Speaker 2: we already know Jayden Daniels, even if he takes a
[16:04] Speaker 2: little bit of a step back from the highest. C J.
[16:06] Speaker 2: Stroud's really good player still, right, c J Ada down year,
[16:09] Speaker 2: Everyone would buy C. J. Stroud stock moving forward, no different.
[16:12] Speaker 2: Jayde Daniel's a hit bo Nicks. I just don't see
[16:15] Speaker 2: how Denver is not gonna be consistent for a while
[16:18] Speaker 2: and bow Knicks is gonna be good. So we got
[16:20] Speaker 2: two of the six.
[16:21] Speaker 1: Well and and Drake May with a real coach and
[16:25] Speaker 1: three hundred million in free agency. I mean, there weren't
[16:28] Speaker 1: times last year and that was a bad staff. There
[16:30] Speaker 1: were times I watched Drake Man I thought, oh, I
[16:32] Speaker 1: see the Herbert comp.
[16:35] Speaker 2: And you go, worst case scenario you're gonna get with
[16:37] Speaker 2: Vrabel the way he operates, Look what he did with
[16:40] Speaker 2: Tanny Hill. He can just create an environment. Maybe Drake
[16:43] Speaker 2: May can become a bigger, more athletic like Jimmy Garoppolo type.
[16:46] Speaker 2: He's gonna be okay, you know, even if he doesn't
[16:49] Speaker 2: become Josh Allen or Herbi, he's gonna be solid. So
[16:51] Speaker 2: we're now we're done a fifty percent, So we got
[16:54] Speaker 2: the other three Pennix. I'm just I think Atlanta is
[16:57] Speaker 2: kind of a weird place. Yeah, and I just, you know,
[17:00] Speaker 2: the owner think, I just I'm kind of out. The
[17:02] Speaker 2: cousins think still around even though he's a high character guy.
[17:06] Speaker 2: It's just I just don't buy into that organization. JJ
[17:10] Speaker 2: major question mark Caleb to me is still the question
[17:13] Speaker 2: mark with Ben Johnson. But my theory is this, you've
[17:17] Speaker 2: talked a lot about this, that the clock on these guys.
[17:21] Speaker 2: This isn't nineteen ninety seven where most of these owners
[17:24] Speaker 2: don't have big cash. They will pivot off guys in
[17:27] Speaker 2: a moment's notice. I was in the car the other
[17:30] Speaker 2: day and I was flipping around and I listened to
[17:32] Speaker 2: NFL radio and how he was on. They had like
[17:35] Speaker 2: the NFL radio crew was going through and he's like
[17:38] Speaker 2: they were talking about the draft pick of Jalen Hurts,
[17:40] Speaker 2: and he was like, you know, we had just given
[17:42] Speaker 2: Carson Wentz a huge contract the year before. And that
[17:46] Speaker 2: was seven eight years ago, maybe not that long ago,
[17:48] Speaker 2: what twenty eighteen ish? Right, it was after they you know,
[17:52] Speaker 2: the year after they won the Super Bowl. Think how
[17:54] Speaker 2: much more money's getting distributed now, Well, they just give
[17:56] Speaker 2: out four hundred and fifty million dollars, Well, what's that
[17:58] Speaker 2: number going to be in three or four years? Six
[18:00] Speaker 2: hundred million dollars? These teams are not worried about with
[18:03] Speaker 2: an on a guy. I mean It's not an ideal
[18:04] Speaker 2: situation to be in. But if Caleb, let's just say
[18:07] Speaker 2: this year that it goes, you know, I think Ben
[18:09] Speaker 2: Johnson knows what he's doing. But they win eight games.
[18:12] Speaker 2: It is not gonna Ben Johnson's fault. Like he's not
[18:14] Speaker 2: going anywhere and all of a sudden it would be
[18:16] Speaker 2: an offseason. Do they go sign whoever the equivalent is
[18:19] Speaker 2: of that fifteen to twenty million dollar bridge quarterback and
[18:22] Speaker 2: have an open competition. There is pressure on him this
[18:26] Speaker 2: year to me to play well, and playing well isn't
[18:30] Speaker 2: just throwing up stats. You better be winning. Yeah.
[18:33] Speaker 1: Two things to think about too. Detroit looked awful in
[18:37] Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame game. They looked unorganized. So when
[18:40] Speaker 1: Detroit pulls back this year and the Hall of Fame
[18:43] Speaker 1: game aside, we don't.
[18:44] Speaker 2: Know, I mean it's their threes, but yeah, yeah.
[18:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, but they just look disorganized. Let's say that Detroit
[18:51] Speaker 1: looks like they miss Ben Johnson. That will empower Ben Johnson.
[18:56] Speaker 1: So if Caleb struggles and Detroit pulls back, people will
[18:59] Speaker 1: say it's not Ben Johnson, Like, look at it. I mean,
[19:03] Speaker 1: Detroit's this powerhouse. Detroit's been the most discussed offense in
[19:07] Speaker 1: the league has how creative they were. If Detroit pulls back,
[19:10] Speaker 1: we think they will. The division's better, and we don't
[19:12] Speaker 1: think Ben Johnson's fill ins Ben Johnson. Then all of
[19:16] Speaker 1: a sudden, it empowers Ben Moore. And then if Caleb struggles,
[19:20] Speaker 1: it just and there's already questions. And also, Caleb is
[19:24] Speaker 1: talented enough that even if he didn't work with Ben,
[19:28] Speaker 1: it wouldn't be a disaster. I doubt very seriously, he'd
[19:31] Speaker 1: make plays and you couldn't. And my take is over
[19:36] Speaker 1: the next two years, you could move him and get
[19:38] Speaker 1: a good pick. Like Caleb's the kind of guy that
[19:41] Speaker 1: he'll have enough tape, Like you can look at Bryce
[19:44] Speaker 1: Young and just say he's too small, he's not gonna last.
[19:48] Speaker 1: It doesn't Caleb's thick, big r moves. I mean, Carson
[19:53] Speaker 1: Wentz kept getting opportunities like Caleb is the kind of
[19:56] Speaker 1: guy that Chicago could move off and if the it
[20:00] Speaker 1: didn't go well, Ben's not taking the heat, and you
[20:03] Speaker 1: could get something for Caleb. I mean, Jesus, especially with
[20:07] Speaker 1: guys like Donald and Baker Mayfield and Gino Smith being reborn.
[20:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're a long way away from that. I'm
[20:14] Speaker 2: not even saying either, like this thing is a disaster,
[20:18] Speaker 2: but like to me, they can't go seven or eight wins.
[20:22] Speaker 2: You know, Dennis Allen's a good defensive coordinator. Their defense
[20:25] Speaker 2: is going to be solid, and they're going to be
[20:27] Speaker 2: in closer games. I mean last year, as the thing
[20:29] Speaker 2: fell apart, it fell like every game was twenty to
[20:32] Speaker 2: thirty to nothing. At halftime it was a joke, and
[20:34] Speaker 2: then the second half was to me, I couldn't even
[20:37] Speaker 2: judge any of his throats because they were completely meaningless.
[20:40] Speaker 2: I'm with you. His physical he can move, he's got
[20:42] Speaker 2: a big arm. He didn't yeah, play make but to
[20:45] Speaker 2: be a good quarterback. And this is the JJ thing too.
[20:48] Speaker 2: Can you play within the confines and the construct of
[20:51] Speaker 2: the offense? So some plays one two get rid of
[20:53] Speaker 2: the ball. Why does Kyle Shanahan love brock Purty because
[20:57] Speaker 2: he will play in the construct of the offense. Why
[20:59] Speaker 2: does Sean Payton loved bow Nicks because he will do
[21:03] Speaker 2: what he tells him to. That was a Russell Wilson thing, right,
[21:06] Speaker 2: I was just before I walked in here, I was
[21:08] Speaker 2: flipping around and NFL Network. It must have been from
[21:11] Speaker 2: earlier today because it looked like the morning in a
[21:13] Speaker 2: lot of camps and they were going camp to camp
[21:15] Speaker 2: and one thing, Steve Smith Senior was like, they're a
[21:18] Speaker 2: Steeler camp and they're like you could tell a lot
[21:20] Speaker 2: of these guys were telling us like, god, this guy,
[21:22] Speaker 2: you know, because Aaron Rodgers can still sling it, and
[21:25] Speaker 2: they're like, the big difference of last year is like
[21:27] Speaker 2: Russell Wilson was just kind of chucking it. This guy
[21:30] Speaker 2: can sling it. And there's a difference between just chucking it,
[21:33] Speaker 2: which I would say Caleb was kind of doing. It's
[21:35] Speaker 2: a lot of quarterbacks do when when it's off kilter
[21:39] Speaker 2: inside an offense. Now, how hard you Caleb has arm strength?
[21:42] Speaker 2: Oh can't he play within the pocket? Why did Baker
[21:45] Speaker 2: become a really good player because the offense he started
[21:48] Speaker 2: operating in it He's got a good arm, he's on time,
[21:50] Speaker 2: he gets rid of the ball, he can move to
[21:52] Speaker 2: But like a lot of his stuff like playmaker within
[21:55] Speaker 2: the pocket, and that's I think a question mark on
[21:57] Speaker 2: Caleb because he's got that Russell Wilson an instinct to
[22:00] Speaker 2: like I just got to make plays. It's like you
[22:02] Speaker 2: got to stay in there. That's what Ben Johnson built
[22:05] Speaker 2: a powerhouse offense really by sitting in the pocket and
[22:08] Speaker 2: getting rid of the ball again read.
[22:09] Speaker 1: Of the ball cast No. And this is something to note.
[22:13] Speaker 1: I think we talked about this last time. There are
[22:15] Speaker 1: not that many head coaches who are gifted play designers
[22:20] Speaker 1: and play callers. Andy Reid is, Sean Payton is, Shanahan is.
[22:24] Speaker 1: But most head coaches. Jimmy Johnson's a legendary CEO. I
[22:29] Speaker 1: mean that's what Jimmy was. Pete Carroll is as a CEO.
[22:33] Speaker 1: Mike Tomlin's more of a CEO. A lot of the
[22:36] Speaker 1: great coaches are brothers. Are Bill Parcells was? And then
[22:41] Speaker 1: you get the occasional the guy could literally go on
[22:43] Speaker 1: the whiteboard. Kevin O'Connell, you know, is a whiteboard guy. Well,
[22:48] Speaker 1: Ben Johnson is. And those guys all have one thing
[22:51] Speaker 1: in common. They want the quarterback to run their play right.
[22:56] Speaker 1: Tomlin's not. Tomlin's gonna let you do what you want
[22:58] Speaker 1: to do.
[22:59] Speaker 2: You know.
[23:00] Speaker 1: Defensive coaches don't know the lingo literally, but most of
[23:05] Speaker 1: these guys who can call plays like Peyton, they lose
[23:07] Speaker 1: their shit if you don't follow directions.
[23:10] Speaker 2: Well, it's not an apples to apples comparison because Russell
[23:13] Speaker 2: was an older guy on a huge contract and Caleb
[23:16] Speaker 2: is the number one pick on a rookie contract. But
[23:18] Speaker 2: I do think there are some parallels. You run my
[23:21] Speaker 2: offense that I know works, or this is not gonna work. Right.
[23:24] Speaker 2: There are two lanes. You run my offense and I
[23:28] Speaker 2: feel good about your running my offense, or you will
[23:30] Speaker 2: be gone. So I think those are the only too.
[23:33] Speaker 2: There's no like, uh, he'll morph some play like nah.
[23:36] Speaker 2: The offense with Ben Johnson and Seawan's you know, as
[23:40] Speaker 2: a longer track record like his offense, he ain't pivoting.
[23:43] Speaker 2: Maybe Ben would try some different stuff because there would
[23:46] Speaker 2: be some pressure to make this number one overall pick work.
[23:49] Speaker 2: But the way he's talking, the way he's operating, it
[23:52] Speaker 2: kind of feels like I got a pretty good idea
[23:54] Speaker 2: what I'm doing on offense, and this is the way
[23:55] Speaker 2: we're doing it.
[23:59] Speaker 1: Nothing says so like long days, clutch plays and firing
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[25:23] Speaker 1: I agree, so you and I both agree on this
[25:26] Speaker 1: that the Terry McLaurin situation in Washington is troubling. So
[25:33] Speaker 1: I liked the Deebo acquisition because he's a chess piece
[25:37] Speaker 1: and Cliff Kingsbury would be. You know, a play designer
[25:40] Speaker 1: is good with chess pieces. But Deebo's not as good consistently,
[25:45] Speaker 1: or as healthy consistently, or as productive consistently as Terry McLaurin.
[25:49] Speaker 1: And Terry's been the guy that's been I mean, because
[25:51] Speaker 1: of where he was drafted. Terry hasn't gotten the huge
[25:54] Speaker 1: payday yet. In fact, you could argue before amor on
[25:58] Speaker 1: Saint Rounds contract that mclauch an omor on say Brown
[26:01] Speaker 1: with the most un underpaid weapons in the league. So
[26:04] Speaker 1: I actually get Terry McLaurin saying guys like I have
[26:09] Speaker 1: outperformed my contract fourfold. Deebo is a guy that's not
[26:15] Speaker 1: going to be a center piece, more of a chess piece.
[26:17] Speaker 1: Struggles to stay healthy. No, no, no, no this, I'm not
[26:23] Speaker 1: doing any team favors on this. I kind of side
[26:26] Speaker 1: with Terry McLaurin here.
[26:28] Speaker 2: You Belichick talked about this for a long time, the
[26:31] Speaker 2: locker room dynamics and money. I mean, you're dealing with
[26:34] Speaker 2: young people who value themselves based on their contract relative
[26:37] Speaker 2: to their peers. You know, it's hard with NFL contracts
[26:40] Speaker 2: because it's convoluted because a signing bonus is and pro
[26:43] Speaker 2: rated money. But basically they make a very similar amount
[26:47] Speaker 2: of actual cash going into their bank account week one
[26:50] Speaker 2: through seventeen this year, deebo and Terry McLaurin. Last time
[26:53] Speaker 2: I checked. Terry McLaurin had thirteen touchdowns last year and
[26:55] Speaker 2: it was a massive reason that Jayden Daniels became a star.
[26:59] Speaker 2: And if you're him, like what about all the sweat
[27:01] Speaker 2: equity when this franchise was a joke? Yeah, I was
[27:04] Speaker 2: the good guy doing the right thing. You bring in
[27:06] Speaker 2: this other guy who is the GM's guy right from
[27:09] Speaker 2: the forty nine ers, but he peaked, you know, part
[27:12] Speaker 2: of the reasons Kyle got rid of him. He's like
[27:14] Speaker 2: Chubby wide receiver. When do you ever hear about that?
[27:16] Speaker 2: Like couldn't stay in shape, got moodies, ask for trades before.
[27:20] Speaker 2: Now he comes and we're making similar money. These are
[27:23] Speaker 2: human beings, right, I totally understand, Like that's not really
[27:27] Speaker 2: I feel like a part of the reporting. It's not
[27:29] Speaker 2: like and Terry would come out and say I'm jealous
[27:31] Speaker 2: or angry because but you can't tell me that didn't
[27:33] Speaker 2: play a part. You think I'm gonna make the same
[27:35] Speaker 2: amount of money as this guy. You know we're both
[27:37] Speaker 2: in contract years. Yet this is my team, which I've
[27:40] Speaker 2: been here from day one. You just bring in this guy.
[27:43] Speaker 2: I also wonder if it showed him like what this
[27:46] Speaker 2: administration they weren't my people, So I better be pretty
[27:49] Speaker 2: careful now. They're gonna want me to lay it on
[27:50] Speaker 2: the line now. But what if I get hurt and
[27:52] Speaker 2: then I can't get a contract after this year. They
[27:54] Speaker 2: don't care. They'll just move on. Because wide receivers this
[27:57] Speaker 2: isn't you know, tackle or defensive ends not It's a
[28:00] Speaker 2: pretty easy position to replace. Even if Debo fails. They
[28:03] Speaker 2: could just draft a guy next year in the first
[28:05] Speaker 2: round or the second round, or hit on a guy
[28:06] Speaker 2: in the fourth round. Who knows. Maybe McCaffrey's brother becomes
[28:09] Speaker 2: a fifty catch guy. It's an easy you could argue
[28:12] Speaker 2: the easiest position now to find.
[28:13] Speaker 1: Oh. I can name off the top of my head
[28:16] Speaker 1: the tank Dells and the Puka Nakuas and the Amora
[28:18] Speaker 1: on Saint Brown's rounds four or five, Jennings and San
[28:21] Speaker 1: Francisco's I think it's seventh round guy wide receivers easily now.
[28:26] Speaker 1: Now it can be the most inflammable and bustable first
[28:30] Speaker 1: round pick because they come in. You know, it's an
[28:33] Speaker 1: ego position. They come in the first round, but by
[28:36] Speaker 1: and large it's I just I look at Terry McLaurin
[28:40] Speaker 1: and I tried to personalize it, and I'm thinking, he's
[28:42] Speaker 1: been a good guy, he's been productive, he was the
[28:45] Speaker 1: star he is to a large degree, is the one
[28:49] Speaker 1: thing you could build Jaden Daniels around, not the old
[28:52] Speaker 1: line of the run game or tight end. I think
[28:55] Speaker 1: you have to take care of him. And for the record,
[28:59] Speaker 1: I would said this ten years ago, but you can
[29:02] Speaker 1: pay two weapons now and they're not paying a running
[29:04] Speaker 1: back big money or a tight end like ten years ago.
[29:08] Speaker 1: The money was dispersed often more on the defense than offense.
[29:11] Speaker 1: In New England. It was I mean, Brady was taking
[29:13] Speaker 1: cuts in the NFL. Now the Rams like the Rams,
[29:18] Speaker 1: the Chiefs, they pay like one defensive player. So I'm
[29:23] Speaker 1: okay paying two weapons. I'm okay with t Higgins and
[29:26] Speaker 1: Jamar Chase, I'm okay with it.
[29:28] Speaker 2: Well, imagine if you're terry too. So you look around
[29:30] Speaker 2: and you go listen. I'm not even comparing myself to
[29:34] Speaker 2: Jamar Chase or Ceede Lamb or Justin Jefferson, but let's
[29:37] Speaker 2: go DK Metcalf the next year. Guys who early on
[29:40] Speaker 2: in his career had like the greatest start ever. Last
[29:42] Speaker 2: couple of years have been weird. The guy that gets
[29:44] Speaker 2: penalties every game, and Seattle was like, yeah, we're kind
[29:47] Speaker 2: of out of this business. He said, he asked for
[29:49] Speaker 2: a trade. I think they were ready to pivot yep,
[29:52] Speaker 2: and he goes, well, he just gets one hundred and
[29:53] Speaker 2: fifty million dollars and sixty seventy million dollars in guaranteed.
[29:56] Speaker 2: And he's a question mark of like, can you corral
[29:59] Speaker 2: this guy? He's like a better version of some of
[30:01] Speaker 2: these crazy guys. I am everything you would want, character
[30:05] Speaker 2: check all these boxes and I produce and I can't
[30:09] Speaker 2: get you. Guys won't even offer me anything, so they
[30:12] Speaker 2: want them and it's the NFL. It's cut thrown. I
[30:14] Speaker 2: totally understand it, but I think they want him just
[30:17] Speaker 2: to play this season on the fifteen million dollars and
[30:19] Speaker 2: then evaluate after that. Now, this is this isn't the
[30:23] Speaker 2: NBA right when these guys ask for trades like you
[30:25] Speaker 2: don't just he's gone, Like that's not how they're going
[30:28] Speaker 2: to operate. And I think these guys know now that
[30:30] Speaker 2: they'll get fined and they can't take them back. So
[30:32] Speaker 2: they show up so they don't get fifty thousand dollars
[30:35] Speaker 2: a day, but they don't really have to do anything.
[30:38] Speaker 2: But is it worth having this guy who's kind of
[30:41] Speaker 2: the heartbeat of your one of the heart beats team
[30:44] Speaker 2: got being mad in a weird mood like the expectations
[30:47] Speaker 2: for Washington. This is why it's hard. And all these
[30:49] Speaker 2: coaches say what happened last year is kind of irrelevant
[30:52] Speaker 2: this year because guys want to get paid. Guys got injured,
[30:54] Speaker 2: some guys are gone. Every team is they had nothing
[30:57] Speaker 2: but good vibes last year. Now this year it's like,
[30:59] Speaker 2: uh yeah no.
[31:00] Speaker 1: And the other thing is this is not the NBA,
[31:02] Speaker 1: where it's hard to name a player whose career was
[31:06] Speaker 1: ended because of an injury. It's the same in baseball
[31:09] Speaker 1: outside of pitchers and arms. I mean, baseball careers can
[31:14] Speaker 1: last forever. In football, it's just one shot to the knee.
[31:18] Speaker 1: You're not the same wide receiver. So like I get
[31:20] Speaker 1: the psychology of mclaurin's, Like, bro, I'm taking I take
[31:23] Speaker 1: hits at practice. Like we can all name ten pro
[31:28] Speaker 1: football careers that have been ended early because of injuries.
[31:31] Speaker 1: It doesn't happen in basketball and baseball or hockey as much.
[31:35] Speaker 1: So I get mclaurin's. There's a certain insecurity about football players.
[31:39] Speaker 1: I get I want to get paid.
[31:41] Speaker 2: Totally, And I think they see it at training camp
[31:43] Speaker 2: and we're numb to it as fans and coaches and
[31:46] Speaker 2: gms don't care. But you see guys every single day.
[31:48] Speaker 2: So and so shattered his legs, so and so ripped
[31:51] Speaker 2: his achilles a lot of times. It's like the seventy
[31:53] Speaker 2: fifth man, So no one cares. Those players are standing
[31:56] Speaker 2: there right in that drill and see the cart come out,
[31:58] Speaker 2: and they knew that guy help be their buddy. They
[32:01] Speaker 2: might have been eating lunch with them who's on the
[32:02] Speaker 2: practice squad, they've been hanging out with them for a
[32:04] Speaker 2: couple of years. They see that cart Leavin with his helmet,
[32:07] Speaker 2: they go his career could be over. And then a
[32:09] Speaker 2: couple days later he's waved injured. And so for every
[32:12] Speaker 2: time that we see well, because I always say this,
[32:15] Speaker 2: most good players see the majority of their contract, like
[32:19] Speaker 2: Russell Wilson is kind of an outline if you look
[32:21] Speaker 2: at the landscape of the league, all the top players.
[32:24] Speaker 2: Because we haven't had catastrophic injury to a lot of
[32:26] Speaker 2: the top players in recent years, they're seeing all the
[32:30] Speaker 2: guaranteed money and the non guaranteed money of their contract.
[32:33] Speaker 2: But it's just I wouldn't take that risk if I
[32:36] Speaker 2: were any of these guys either, because all it takes
[32:38] Speaker 2: is one guy fall in India and your career is done.
[32:41] Speaker 2: Or you're just never the same and all of a
[32:43] Speaker 2: sudden you go from a twenty million dollar player to
[32:45] Speaker 2: a veteran minimum guy.
[32:46] Speaker 1: So I don't feel the same with Micah Parsons, who
[32:49] Speaker 1: has a year left on the contract. He's been noisier,
[32:53] Speaker 1: he's been less consistent. I think Terry McLaurin is there's
[32:58] Speaker 1: an argument the most underpaid player in the league via
[33:01] Speaker 1: VCV production. Michah Parsons is a very good player. I
[33:05] Speaker 1: talked about this a year ago. I was team trade
[33:08] Speaker 1: Micah Parsons. Just forget the rest of the league, forget
[33:12] Speaker 1: the rest of the NFC. To catch up to Philadelphia,
[33:14] Speaker 1: you need about four more really good players, and Micah
[33:18] Speaker 1: could have fetched you probably a first and a third
[33:21] Speaker 1: and maybe a fifth. I mean, who knows edge rushers?
[33:25] Speaker 1: I don't. I think Micah because he's on the count.
[33:27] Speaker 1: If Micah played for the Jacksonville Jaguars, I don't think
[33:30] Speaker 1: he would be discussed as often as he is. I
[33:33] Speaker 1: think he's really really good. He's not Miles Garrett. I
[33:36] Speaker 1: don't think he's Max Crosby. He's probably better than Hendrickson
[33:39] Speaker 1: against the run. He's a very very good player. No
[33:42] Speaker 1: showed in playoff games. I've seen a man handled gobbled
[33:47] Speaker 1: up a few times. I like him a lot, but
[33:50] Speaker 1: I would have moved him. I would have had no problem.
[33:52] Speaker 1: I would have moved him for picks because I think
[33:53] Speaker 1: CD and Dak. If you're going to pay Dak that,
[33:55] Speaker 1: you got to give him a weapon. So my take
[33:59] Speaker 1: is I'm not team Micah. My take is I would
[34:03] Speaker 1: have moved him. I would not make him the highest
[34:06] Speaker 1: paid guy for the next six months in the league.
[34:08] Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think he's that Am I wrong
[34:12] Speaker 1: to me? He's a splash player. There are moments he's unbelievable,
[34:16] Speaker 1: but I also watch Cowboy games where he's ineffective and
[34:18] Speaker 1: disappears against really good offensive lines.
[34:21] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I would take a healthy version of
[34:23] Speaker 2: Miles Garrett. I think three guys that got paid TJ.
[34:25] Speaker 2: Watt and Max Crosby over him now relative to the Cowboys.
[34:30] Speaker 2: If you are going to trade him, you have to
[34:31] Speaker 2: do it before the draft. It doesn't help you now.
[34:34] Speaker 2: It's you know, remember when the Raiders did it with
[34:35] Speaker 2: Khalil Mack. It just derailed them for a couple of years.
[34:38] Speaker 2: So it's too late. You know that that new podcast
[34:43] Speaker 2: the volume did you? Are you a Bravo guy? Have
[34:45] Speaker 2: you ever seen Wes in action for? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
[34:49] Speaker 2: so it's I watch a lot of it with my wife.
[34:52] Speaker 2: Obviously it's they got a big these shows. I was googling,
[34:56] Speaker 2: do like two million people watching the Summerhouse. Steven Colbert
[35:00] Speaker 2: would sell his left leg to do the numbers that
[35:03] Speaker 2: these shows are. I mean, they are huge, very popular shows.
[35:06] Speaker 2: But because there's a lot of drama, a lot going on,
[35:09] Speaker 2: women watch it, bring their men in. A lot of
[35:11] Speaker 2: people watch these shows and know what's going on. That
[35:13] Speaker 2: has become Jerry Jones the Dallas Cowboys, They've become a
[35:15] Speaker 2: Bravo reality television show and they got a lot of
[35:18] Speaker 2: people paying attention. And it's Jerry's comments he does. He
[35:23] Speaker 2: feels like he's slipping pretty hard. I feel like these
[35:25] Speaker 2: last couple of years, say he's making this situation. Listen,
[35:28] Speaker 2: these contract negotiations are not easy. We were talking. I
[35:31] Speaker 2: get the league's making a lot of money. It's still
[35:33] Speaker 2: a lot of money for players that can get it.
[35:36] Speaker 2: Just production can fall. Things change faster in football than
[35:41] Speaker 2: the other sports. Right guy falls off a cliff and
[35:43] Speaker 2: you're like, god, he's twenty eight. You know, all of
[35:44] Speaker 2: a sudden, Todd Gurley's out of the league. Things happen
[35:47] Speaker 2: weird in football. So I always understand for the front
[35:50] Speaker 2: office view is like should we do this? Like these
[35:52] Speaker 2: are tough conversations unless you're like Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen.
[35:57] Speaker 2: But Jerry makes this way worse because he think about
[36:00] Speaker 2: all these other negotiations. I gave the Browns a lot
[36:03] Speaker 2: of credit. Remember Miles Garrett came to the Super Bowls
[36:05] Speaker 2: like I want out trade me. And then jim He's
[36:08] Speaker 2: like Clutch was like, I want a meeting with Jimmy HASLM.
[36:10] Speaker 2: Jimmy's like, I'm not only am I not meeting by
[36:13] Speaker 2: talk to my GM. A couple days later he signed
[36:16] Speaker 2: and it's just over TJ. Watson, I need more money.
[36:18] Speaker 2: A month later he's got paid the new administration spy
[36:22] Speaker 2: Tech and Pete Carroll. You're like, God, they're gonna like
[36:24] Speaker 2: Max Crosby, even though I think probably time to reset
[36:27] Speaker 2: trade them Boom. They just pay him nothing. This is
[36:30] Speaker 2: just it. This is the Cowboys man. They can't and
[36:33] Speaker 2: people are like Jerry loves himself in the headlines. I
[36:36] Speaker 2: think we're past that point. The Cowboys are always in
[36:39] Speaker 2: the headlines, like there was Dallas Cowboys Jerry. I think
[36:41] Speaker 2: Jerry's literally kind of just slipping.
[36:45] Speaker 1: It's getting to be it feels like the old Al
[36:47] Speaker 1: Davis Raiders, where a lot of his like stories are weird,
[36:52] Speaker 1: like he'll start rambling and there was always a point
[36:56] Speaker 1: to him. But over the last couple of years he'll
[36:58] Speaker 1: go off into these ten and stories and I'm like, bro,
[37:01] Speaker 1: I don't know where you're going, but this fishing trip,
[37:04] Speaker 1: let me off the boat because you're not reeling me
[37:06] Speaker 1: in on this thing. Like, I don't get it. And
[37:08] Speaker 1: I think the mic of things just been misplayed. And
[37:12] Speaker 1: I did an essay on it a couple of weeks ago,
[37:14] Speaker 1: is that it's like trying to take the keys away
[37:16] Speaker 1: from Grandpa. It's like, I mean, it's and I'm not
[37:18] Speaker 1: being mean spirited, it's just we all you get into
[37:21] Speaker 1: eighties and you have a big wild life of travel
[37:25] Speaker 1: and partying, and I just I think the Cowboys are
[37:28] Speaker 1: in a really, really tenuous spot.
[37:32] Speaker 2: Well it's getting pretty ugly clearly with Micah's agent, Jerry
[37:35] Speaker 2: won't talk to him because back in Jerry's heyday, he
[37:39] Speaker 2: could just talk to the player and get deals done
[37:41] Speaker 2: and the agents weren't as big of an issue beside
[37:43] Speaker 2: a couple of players here and there. I mean, I
[37:45] Speaker 2: saw a story recently that when he signed Deon Sanders,
[37:48] Speaker 2: he dealt with Deon Sanders and I'm sorry, Jerry, like
[37:51] Speaker 2: it sucks. I don't. I don't. Most of these people
[37:54] Speaker 2: don't want to deal with these agents. It's part of
[37:56] Speaker 2: the deal when you want to sign some of these
[37:58] Speaker 2: players you got to sign called David Mulgena or Drew
[38:02] Speaker 2: roz Neels, and Jerry just thinks he can go right
[38:04] Speaker 2: to Micah and it's made it way worse then. Like
[38:07] Speaker 2: you said, if you watch some of these clips of
[38:09] Speaker 2: Jerry twenty years ago, it was kind of like when
[38:12] Speaker 2: when Al was slipping. If you watch clips on NFL
[38:14] Speaker 2: network of Al Davis in the eighties talking about his team,
[38:17] Speaker 2: you know, it was like, God, this guy's really impressive,
[38:20] Speaker 2: you know, because they were they you know, Jerry was
[38:23] Speaker 2: different than now. I'd say Al was probably fell a
[38:25] Speaker 2: little more academic than Jerry and football guy. Jerry's a
[38:27] Speaker 2: little more of a gun slinging businessman. But they are
[38:31] Speaker 2: not the same in terms of like Al, towards the end,
[38:34] Speaker 2: it got really ugly. The difference is the raiders the
[38:37] Speaker 2: NFL hadn't quite taken off like a rocket ship with
[38:39] Speaker 2: the money, so like Al literally didn't have cash. Sometimes
[38:42] Speaker 2: he had to wait for them to be Jerry has
[38:44] Speaker 2: the money. Jerry's just playing hardball. He's very stubborn and
[38:48] Speaker 2: he's old, but he is like a lot of people
[38:50] Speaker 2: point out, sneaky, a little cheap, doesn't spend the amount
[38:52] Speaker 2: of cash as some of these teams, because if you
[38:54] Speaker 2: think about it, when Jerry got in the league, money
[38:58] Speaker 2: even then was a little tighter definitely than it is now.
[39:01] Speaker 2: But people will tell you in the league, well, it's like, look,
[39:03] Speaker 2: Jerry's got a two hundred million dollar yacht, but he
[39:05] Speaker 2: won't buy some players. Then they'll blame the cap space.
[39:07] Speaker 2: It's like, look at Jeffrey Leurry. You can manipulate it.
[39:10] Speaker 2: So it's whether they don't want to, it's whether they're
[39:13] Speaker 2: not capable of doing it because they're not on the
[39:15] Speaker 2: forefront of the cap capabilities. I don't know, but they
[39:19] Speaker 2: do feel a little a little closer to like the
[39:22] Speaker 2: way we talk about the Browns and the way we
[39:24] Speaker 2: used to talk about the Raiders, then the way they
[39:26] Speaker 2: get discussed sometimes because of their brand a little bit.
[39:29] Speaker 2: Let's face it, like the Genie Bus and Bus family
[39:33] Speaker 2: Lakers up until the last couple of years, especially now
[39:35] Speaker 2: that it's over with the new ownership. But mom and
[39:38] Speaker 2: pop shop. But this guy's old. It's like Steven, no
[39:41] Speaker 2: one's listened to him. Just kind of a shit show Collin.
[39:44] Speaker 2: This whole thing is to me, you got a first
[39:46] Speaker 2: time head coach that no one would have hired as
[39:49] Speaker 2: their offensive coordinator. Think about that with Brian Schottenneimer, if
[39:53] Speaker 2: he was fired with Mike McCarthy got an offensive coordinator
[39:56] Speaker 2: job and the answer is no, because he hadn't got
[39:57] Speaker 2: one in years, so he wasn't going to get one new.
[40:00] Speaker 2: And now he's your head coach, which and I'm not
[40:02] Speaker 2: trying to belittle the guy. I mean he comes from
[40:05] Speaker 2: football royalty, like he's there. Maybe he'll be okay, but
[40:08] Speaker 2: this is not an easy first job. Danner. Ask those
[40:10] Speaker 2: guys that tried to coach in the two thousands with
[40:12] Speaker 2: al it's hard.
[40:15] Speaker 1: The So I was, this happened before I left, but
[40:21] Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting. So Mike Brown's the old
[40:25] Speaker 1: owner of the Bengals, and he kind of lashed out
[40:28] Speaker 1: and said, you know, the Trey Hendricks and stuff. You know,
[40:30] Speaker 1: he goes a lot of media makes good points, but
[40:33] Speaker 1: a lot of media is just talking. And I was
[40:36] Speaker 1: thinking about it as I was flying from Rhode Island
[40:39] Speaker 1: back to Chicago tonight. It is hard to have an
[40:44] Speaker 1: a level quarterback and missed the playoffs fourteen of the
[40:48] Speaker 1: thirty two teams make it, so forty percent of the
[40:51] Speaker 1: league makes it. Joe Burrow, there's an argument, was the
[40:55] Speaker 1: most efficient quarterback in the league last year. It's much
[40:58] Speaker 1: more than Mahomes, So there was an argument on a
[41:01] Speaker 1: week to week basis just efficiency quarterback rating, Burrow was
[41:06] Speaker 1: the best quarterback in the league last year. But think
[41:08] Speaker 1: about this in an offensive league and they didn't make
[41:12] Speaker 1: the playoffs. They didn't make it. That's almost john impossible.
[41:17] Speaker 1: In the NFL in twenty twenty four to twenty five.
[41:19] Speaker 1: If your quarterback, I mean it's you don't even have
[41:22] Speaker 1: to have a great quarterback. You can have a quarterback
[41:24] Speaker 1: having a great year, Sam Darnold, You're gonna win thirteen twelve,
[41:27] Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen games. They didn't make the playoffs. And the
[41:33] Speaker 1: reason they didn't make the playoffs. So you say, well
[41:35] Speaker 1: it's the coach, well then fire, Well they won't do
[41:38] Speaker 1: that because you'd have to pay out a couple of years.
[41:41] Speaker 1: The contract is so Trey Hendrickson. They literally I think
[41:46] Speaker 1: there are thirty second in quarterback pressures without Trey Hendrickson,
[41:50] Speaker 1: Like he is their pass rush and they're I mean,
[41:53] Speaker 1: he's it he's the pass rush and there I mean, listen,
[41:56] Speaker 1: Philadelphia can get pressure on the quarterback whe or without
[41:59] Speaker 1: Jay Carter. Jalen Carter is the game changer. He's like
[42:03] Speaker 1: one of one, his body type, his quickness. Hendrickson's not
[42:07] Speaker 1: great against the run, but he is their pass rush.
[42:11] Speaker 1: But this is like the fourth straight year. There's a
[42:13] Speaker 1: contract squabble here, there's there's a third straight year. Do
[42:17] Speaker 1: you think if Cincinnati doesn't make the playoffs again and
[42:20] Speaker 1: and and will give Burrow another great year because he's
[42:23] Speaker 1: a great player. Do you think Burrow would just say
[42:28] Speaker 1: just go scorts to Earth and say because I do.
[42:32] Speaker 1: I think I think Joe is bright, self aware. You're
[42:35] Speaker 1: starting to see him now do stuff in Paris in
[42:37] Speaker 1: the offseason. He is so frustrated with the organization. He
[42:41] Speaker 1: gets away from it, like he goes abroad. You're not
[42:45] Speaker 1: gonna stay in Ohio. I think if they I think
[42:48] Speaker 1: they're the fascinating team. If Cincinnati misses the playoffs, I
[42:52] Speaker 1: think Joe Burrow and his representatives may get ugly.
[42:56] Speaker 2: The problem is we've seen how Mike Brown operates in
[42:58] Speaker 2: that scenario. He just I hows you to kick rocks
[43:01] Speaker 2: either with Carson Palmer. He's done it this offseason, he's
[43:03] Speaker 2: done in years past. I think they like the Bears
[43:07] Speaker 2: last year, it's like, you should have fired I reflution.
[43:09] Speaker 2: She could have hired Mike Rabel and you're probably a
[43:10] Speaker 2: playoff team in Caleb. No one, we're not even talking
[43:12] Speaker 2: about it. He's just solid, right, I just would have
[43:14] Speaker 2: worked And this offseason. The Chargers went through this forever
[43:18] Speaker 2: like Anthony Lynn, Mike McCoy, Brandon Stale. It's just hire
[43:22] Speaker 2: a real coach. What did they finally do Jim Harbaugh?
[43:25] Speaker 2: Who does everyone bought stock in for the last two
[43:27] Speaker 2: years the Chargers? Why because they got a real coach
[43:30] Speaker 2: and this is a team. Imagine if they had fired
[43:32] Speaker 2: Zach Taylor last year. Like obviously the Bears being in
[43:35] Speaker 2: Chicago is a hard job to pass up, especially if
[43:38] Speaker 2: they're gonna pay a lot of money. But to coach
[43:41] Speaker 2: Joe Burrow, I mean, I'm sorry, like you're kind of
[43:44] Speaker 2: remembered on wins and losses, not just like well I
[43:47] Speaker 2: coached the Bears. Well if you lost, no one cares, right,
[43:49] Speaker 2: no one's really talking about Matt Maggie, right, he would
[43:51] Speaker 2: rather coached Joe Burrow than mis Trubisky. So does do
[43:54] Speaker 2: they get Ben Johnson to just Mike Vrabel, like, hey,
[43:57] Speaker 2: I want that job over Drake, it's Joe Burrow. So
[44:00] Speaker 2: I think that it's hard to overcome this when you
[44:03] Speaker 2: hire cheap coaches, and that's kind of listen. Zach Taylor's
[44:07] Speaker 2: probably a nice guy and you know, solid NFL mind,
[44:10] Speaker 2: but we're not talking John McVeagh, Klem Channing. He's not
[44:13] Speaker 2: super dynamic. The organization is at super dynamic. But you
[44:15] Speaker 2: can overcome that. Like no one ever said that about
[44:17] Speaker 2: the Chargers till they got Jamar Ball and then they said.
[44:19] Speaker 2: Jim Harba said to listen, but you want me, I
[44:21] Speaker 2: need X, Y and Z. And now they're paying big
[44:23] Speaker 2: money for all these people and you feel good about them.
[44:25] Speaker 1: But the difference is the LA market and the deal
[44:29] Speaker 1: that Dean Spanos has, you know, like the dollar a
[44:33] Speaker 1: year lease is they are swimming in cash because the
[44:36] Speaker 1: LA market drives so much revenue. Cincinnati doesn't. Their game
[44:40] Speaker 1: day revenue is near the bottom of the league. So
[44:43] Speaker 1: Brown won't pay fifteen million for a coach and twenty
[44:47] Speaker 1: four million.
[44:47] Speaker 2: For a staff.
[44:49] Speaker 1: I don't think they'll pay half that, whereas spanos can
[44:52] Speaker 1: go listen so far as a bank so far is unbelievable.
[44:57] Speaker 2: Or if they won't, Joe Burrow's got to ask out
[44:59] Speaker 2: then soon because you know, or their team's good enough
[45:02] Speaker 2: they can overcome it. But if that's the case, they
[45:04] Speaker 2: go nine to eight and they miss it again, it's
[45:05] Speaker 2: clear their coaching staff sucks. They fire him, and then
[45:08] Speaker 2: next year, whoever the hot guy is, they end up
[45:10] Speaker 2: with a third tier guy. It's like, you got to
[45:12] Speaker 2: get out because this is we've seen this song and dance.
[45:14] Speaker 2: I saw Antonio Gates point at Philip Rivers. Let's face it.
[45:18] Speaker 2: I mean they didn't exactly have the greatest coaches a
[45:21] Speaker 2: lot of their prime I mean, can you imagine if
[45:23] Speaker 2: those two guys would have had a Sean McVay, Kyle
[45:25] Speaker 2: shanahan and Kevin O'Connell, who knows the way we talk
[45:28] Speaker 2: about that run of like I remember those four out
[45:31] Speaker 2: of the last seven years the Chargers have been in
[45:33] Speaker 2: the Championship Game and made a couple of Super Bowls.
[45:35] Speaker 2: And that's the difference of just like, oh, that one
[45:37] Speaker 2: time Joe Burrow made the Super Bowl, or he's going
[45:40] Speaker 2: competing to go to the Super Bowl. Every single year,
[45:42] Speaker 2: so you would have to short the Browns, or excuse me,
[45:44] Speaker 2: the Bengals, because usually an owner, old guy like Jerry.
[45:49] Speaker 2: I've known a lot of older businessmen that usually don't
[45:52] Speaker 2: become more open minded in their mid seventies. That's not
[45:55] Speaker 2: how it works. So this is not changing with the
[45:57] Speaker 2: Brown family.
[46:03] Speaker 1: And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business. Yes, Whiskey Business,
[46:06] Speaker 1: brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey
[46:09] Speaker 1: of the Colin Coward Podcast. By the way, do you
[46:12] Speaker 1: watch the Hall of Fame ceremonies.
[46:15] Speaker 2: I just sawl I used to watch it a lot.
[46:17] Speaker 2: They've kind of changed the sequence of the week because
[46:20] Speaker 2: remember they used to have the game on Sunday and
[46:22] Speaker 2: the thing would be Saturday night. Now they play the
[46:24] Speaker 2: game on Thursday and they do it like in the morning.
[46:27] Speaker 2: But I saw a lot of clips of Antonio Brown
[46:29] Speaker 2: and Sterling and Shannon and Jared Allen, who has like
[46:33] Speaker 2: some weird disease. Did you see that in a change
[46:35] Speaker 2: his diety he looks slim.
[46:36] Speaker 1: But by the way, next year's class, Drew Brees, Larry
[46:40] Speaker 1: Finngerald in Julian Edelman's probably not a first ballot guy.
[46:47] Speaker 2: I don't know if he's even gonna make it. Yeah,
[46:49] Speaker 2: one of the great all time winners, but I think
[46:51] Speaker 2: i've seen his numbers, like compared to like Wes Welker,
[46:55] Speaker 2: it's gonna be hard to overcome.
[46:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, Philip Rivers probably won't. But Phillip's fascinating because and
[47:03] Speaker 1: Matt Hasselback had some of this. There were moments they
[47:07] Speaker 1: looked like Hall of Famers, but so much of it.
[47:09] Speaker 1: But Eli had moments he didn't look anything resembling a
[47:13] Speaker 1: Hall of Famer, but he had iconic moments, whereas Philip
[47:16] Speaker 1: was really Hall of Fame productive, but he didn't have
[47:19] Speaker 1: anything in January or February that was memorable. And so, yeah,
[47:23] Speaker 1: you know, the Hall of Fame. It's I think one
[47:27] Speaker 1: of the cooler stories is Antonio Gates, the first undrafted
[47:32] Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. I believe that there was a story
[47:36] Speaker 1: that you know, Philip Rivers was talking about for those
[47:40] Speaker 1: who didn't see it, where Philip basically said Antonio Gates
[47:45] Speaker 1: in the playbook. No matter what the play was, if
[47:48] Speaker 1: Antonio Gates was covered one on one that go to
[47:52] Speaker 1: Antonio Gates usurped any other play. There was like if
[47:56] Speaker 1: you looked at the coverage and they put like one
[47:59] Speaker 1: guy on him. It was like, we're going to Antonio Gates.
[48:02] Speaker 1: It did not matter the time, the situation, the field position.
[48:08] Speaker 1: It's funny. I remember watching Antonio Gates rookie year and
[48:11] Speaker 1: I've never been a fantasy football player, so nobody had
[48:14] Speaker 1: him on their team. And I've told this story before.
[48:19] Speaker 1: You can really see great fast. Eugene Robinson went to Colegate.
[48:23] Speaker 1: I was in Cheenie, Washington at the camp. I had
[48:27] Speaker 1: a program in my hand and he's lighting up receivers
[48:30] Speaker 1: for the Seahawks, lighting them up, and we're all, who's
[48:33] Speaker 1: the guy from Colegate Eugene Robinson. That's how I felt
[48:37] Speaker 1: about Antonio Gates, Like I remember watching him as a
[48:40] Speaker 1: rookie and going undrafted. I don't even understand this. Do
[48:46] Speaker 1: you remember the early recollections of Antonio Gates.
[48:49] Speaker 2: I saw him a decent amount toward the latter half
[48:52] Speaker 2: of their career in the mid like twenty thirteen, fourteen
[48:55] Speaker 2: fifteen when they played the Raiders. But Colin he just
[48:58] Speaker 2: made the Hall of Fame. He did not play college football.
[49:01] Speaker 2: I mean he did not play called that will never
[49:03] Speaker 2: happen again. Jordan mylotta who's making I mean, how many
[49:06] Speaker 2: people have ever made the Pro Bowl, made the NFL.
[49:10] Speaker 2: We've had guys make the NFL. Rugby guys, you know,
[49:13] Speaker 2: wrestlers that didn't play college football. But to make a
[49:15] Speaker 2: Pro Bowl and not play college football, you know, my
[49:18] Speaker 2: lot is a little unique rugby guy from Australia. Antonio
[49:22] Speaker 2: Gates basketball player. Physically obviously, both these guys are really gifted.
[49:28] Speaker 2: I do think that Antonio Gates a lot of people.
[49:31] Speaker 2: I remember when I was in the NFL, we used
[49:33] Speaker 2: to like kind of like run studies and scout like
[49:37] Speaker 2: six three to six five power forwards, typically smaller schools,
[49:42] Speaker 2: you know, maybe like a Kent State that's where Antonio
[49:45] Speaker 2: Gates went, but New Mexico State, whatever, and try to
[49:47] Speaker 2: find a body type like that that could translate. And
[49:50] Speaker 2: it only exists because of him, Like if he hadn't existed,
[49:54] Speaker 2: no one would have thought like that. And let's face it,
[49:56] Speaker 2: there doesn't really exist. Since you know, Jimmy Jimmy gra
[50:00] Speaker 2: at Miami, I think he played his senior year if
[50:03] Speaker 2: I remember correctly, Yeah, but he was, you know, a
[50:05] Speaker 2: starter on the basketball team. But there were some guys
[50:07] Speaker 2: like Julius Peppers did both right, some guys do both,
[50:10] Speaker 2: like Donovan McNabb do both. This guy did not play
[50:13] Speaker 2: college football at Allah and then to go to the
[50:15] Speaker 2: NFL and play tight end. And let's let's face it,
[50:18] Speaker 2: when Antonio Gates came into the league in two thousand
[50:22] Speaker 2: and three three, it was a little more violent and
[50:26] Speaker 2: crazy than it is now in terms of the rules
[50:28] Speaker 2: hitting guys. So it was you were running across the
[50:31] Speaker 2: middle of Willy Nilly going they can't touch me, no.
[50:34] Speaker 1: But I do remember the two thousand and four season
[50:38] Speaker 1: is when he really punked because he came in as
[50:39] Speaker 1: like a third or four shring guy. And I've always
[50:42] Speaker 1: been a Charger fan, so back Dan Fouts. So like
[50:45] Speaker 1: if you're a West Coast guy, you were always a
[50:48] Speaker 1: Charger fan. The West Chandler, John Jefferson, Dan Fouts, Chuck Muncy,
[50:53] Speaker 1: they're great offensive lines. So I've always watched the been
[50:56] Speaker 1: kind of a Charger fan, and I think everybody in
[50:59] Speaker 1: the West Coast was because the uniforms, the way they played.
[51:01] Speaker 1: They were always great offensively. It just didn't matter Herbert
[51:05] Speaker 1: Philip Rivers, Fouts, They've been good offensive Like Oregon football
[51:08] Speaker 1: They've always been fun offensively, and I can remember the
[51:11] Speaker 1: two thousand and four season when he would have he
[51:14] Speaker 1: was like, like, had a dozen touchdowns and people started
[51:18] Speaker 1: saying undrafted, and You're like, and then you started you know,
[51:22] Speaker 1: that's again it's twenty some years ago, but I think
[51:27] Speaker 1: I looked I looked at drafting different when I saw
[51:31] Speaker 1: Antonio Gates in two thousand and four, two thousand and five.
[51:36] Speaker 1: It really does make you realize what a crapshoot this
[51:40] Speaker 1: league is. Half the players that are playing in this league,
[51:44] Speaker 1: I think that it's like forty percent or undrafted that
[51:48] Speaker 1: are on rosters right now. And that's one of the
[51:51] Speaker 1: things about football that I think is so incredibly relatable.
[51:54] Speaker 1: In the NBA draft, you get to like sixteenth pick,
[51:58] Speaker 1: you're out of players. In Major League Baseball, you have
[52:02] Speaker 1: forty rounds. You can do forty rounds of drafting, but
[52:05] Speaker 1: most of your great players with the first two or
[52:07] Speaker 1: three rounds. What's remarkable, The best player ever is Tom
[52:12] Speaker 1: Brady's a sixth rounder. You and I could write and
[52:14] Speaker 1: if we went back and forth for the next ten minutes,
[52:17] Speaker 1: we could name great players from the third round on
[52:21] Speaker 1: every fan could you could name fifty of them. And
[52:24] Speaker 1: that's and I think Antonio Gates, if you go back
[52:27] Speaker 1: to his career, it really does. I mean Joe Montana's
[52:30] Speaker 1: I think was a third round pick. You have Brady's sixth,
[52:34] Speaker 1: Kurt Warner and Romo undrafted brought pretty seventh. So I
[52:38] Speaker 1: think I do think when I think of Antonio Gates,
[52:42] Speaker 1: I think of its sort of the beauty of pro
[52:44] Speaker 1: football in this country is it is. There's a lot
[52:46] Speaker 1: of plumbers in this league. There's a lot of dudes
[52:48] Speaker 1: that just started late. You know, like golf and baseball
[52:52] Speaker 1: and hockey, you have to start early. It is a
[52:55] Speaker 1: skill that has developed over over years, decades of practice.
[53:00] Speaker 1: If you play basketball, a lot of those skills work
[53:03] Speaker 1: in football. Run, jump, catch for a tight end.
[53:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's why you find people in both if
[53:09] Speaker 2: they hit the genet. You got to have the special
[53:11] Speaker 2: genetics to make the pros. But you can meet find
[53:14] Speaker 2: football players a guy that, yeah, I played high school.
[53:16] Speaker 2: I skipped it to play basketball at a small school
[53:18] Speaker 2: and then I made the Hall of Fame in the NFL.
[53:20] Speaker 2: One thing I learned going to camps. Once I left
[53:23] Speaker 2: the NFL and started doing this, and look at it
[53:26] Speaker 2: more from an er, you know, from talking about it
[53:28] Speaker 2: and the way fans think. You realize I don't waste
[53:32] Speaker 2: much time when I was going to camps and specifically
[53:34] Speaker 2: doing the Niners or Raiders stuff like talking about the four, fifth, sixth,
[53:37] Speaker 2: seventh rounders, because every single year those guys get cut
[53:40] Speaker 2: and get beat out by undrafted free agents. Hell, the
[53:42] Speaker 2: second rounders a lot of times they don't get cut,
[53:46] Speaker 2: but they are lower on the depth chart than the
[53:48] Speaker 2: sixth rounder at their same position because he was better.
[53:50] Speaker 2: And two years later that sixth rounders is starting. That
[53:53] Speaker 2: second rounder is not only a backup. A year later
[53:56] Speaker 2: he'll be cut and then we're a year away from
[53:58] Speaker 2: that guy making the Pro Bowl. Sixth rounders got a
[54:00] Speaker 2: big extension, and that is the NFL training camp that
[54:04] Speaker 2: undrafted free agents six seventh rounders. There there is a
[54:07] Speaker 2: meritocracy and it's called be a good player, and you
[54:10] Speaker 2: will move up at rapid speed. You are on scholarship
[54:13] Speaker 2: a little as a higher yes plays like a top seven.
[54:16] Speaker 1: Sam in baseball. If you if you're a first or
[54:18] Speaker 1: second round pick in baseball, you'll make the roster like
[54:21] Speaker 1: they'll put.
[54:22] Speaker 2: Guarantee you any playing time it doesn't guarante you a
[54:24] Speaker 2: starting spot, It does not guarantee you dressing on game days.
[54:28] Speaker 2: So I think the one thing that separates in football
[54:31] Speaker 2: in a lot of positions toughness and mental toughness because physically,
[54:36] Speaker 2: you know, I think Jimmy Johnson always had the thing
[54:38] Speaker 2: as fatigue makes cowards of us. All as you get tired,
[54:41] Speaker 2: you stop thinking. So the guys that can think as
[54:43] Speaker 2: they're tired, truly separating football training camp. All these camps,
[54:46] Speaker 2: it's hot, they're throwing. You know, for a lot of
[54:49] Speaker 2: these guys that come from some of these offenses and
[54:51] Speaker 2: defenses in college, you know, this isn't Most guys aren't
[54:54] Speaker 2: running Nick Saban's scheme. It's semi basic at a lot
[54:57] Speaker 2: of these college So they get there, it's intense, and
[55:00] Speaker 2: these coaches do not lay off the gas pedal on you.
[55:03] Speaker 2: So what over a lot of guys, it's not there physically,
[55:05] Speaker 2: they can't play in the NFL. It's mentally it's too much.
[55:07] Speaker 2: They don't know what's going on, and then it impacts
[55:09] Speaker 2: physically because they start playing slow. It's like you're gonna
[55:12] Speaker 2: get you. You can't, we can't put you on the
[55:15] Speaker 2: field and then they just start getting lapped because the
[55:17] Speaker 2: sixth rounder, this is a pretty example, just because he's
[55:20] Speaker 2: a late round pick, can handle it right. So he
[55:23] Speaker 2: can handle it mentally. So that if you can handle
[55:25] Speaker 2: it mentally, because you're getting drafted, you have some physical
[55:29] Speaker 2: skill that gives you a huge starting spot. So to me,
[55:32] Speaker 2: the mental edge on players is something. It's we don't
[55:37] Speaker 2: talk about them because how do you quantify it. You know,
[55:40] Speaker 2: coaches always say, like, this guy's smart, but what does
[55:42] Speaker 2: that really mean? It means a lot, you know. I
[55:45] Speaker 2: remember an assistant coaches, you just tell me. It's so
[55:47] Speaker 2: easy for everyone in the scouting department to go, hey, listen,
[55:50] Speaker 2: this guy's got all the skills. He's an idiot, not
[55:52] Speaker 2: even a great guy. But coach him up and then
[55:56] Speaker 2: he's like, we draft him, and then you guys just
[55:58] Speaker 2: hang out in the cafeteria like, how's it going? Coach
[56:01] Speaker 2: and I have to deal with them every day and
[56:02] Speaker 2: he's got no clue what's going on. And that's where
[56:05] Speaker 2: I think the value of smart guys. Well, when you
[56:08] Speaker 2: get the talented smart guy like an Aaron Donald, a
[56:11] Speaker 2: Trent Williams or Travis Kelce, like you got the guy's
[56:14] Speaker 2: gonna dominate, right Yeah.
[56:16] Speaker 1: I also think, you know, basketball increasingly in my life
[56:19] Speaker 1: has become positionless, like Lebron could play point two, three
[56:23] Speaker 1: or four in his prime, right like it's become I mean,
[56:26] Speaker 1: Jokich is the best passing big man you know since
[56:29] Speaker 1: maybe Bill Walton.
[56:30] Speaker 2: Could play center in twenty twenty five.
[56:33] Speaker 1: I mean, Jokich is a point center that didn't exist
[56:37] Speaker 1: ten years ago. Nobody talked about point centers. But football
[56:42] Speaker 1: is position specific. Guards can't play tight end. Tom Brady
[56:46] Speaker 1: could play one position, that is it, and he's the
[56:49] Speaker 1: greatest player in the history of the league. Lawrence Taylor
[56:53] Speaker 1: could maybe have played tight end. He's the best defensive player.
[56:56] Speaker 1: But Reggie White again probably wouldn't have been a great
[57:01] Speaker 1: tackle offensive tackle. He's the best defensive tackle of all time.
[57:05] Speaker 1: And so it's specific. And I think I think one
[57:08] Speaker 1: of the things you find, and Jimmy Johnson always talked
[57:10] Speaker 1: about this is like in football. I'm always very reluctant
[57:16] Speaker 1: on he's just a great athlete. Is love's playing football?
[57:22] Speaker 1: And my take on what does he do well? Like
[57:25] Speaker 1: it is it's not positionless. It's like baseball to a
[57:28] Speaker 1: large degree. You can be a utility infielder, but generally
[57:31] Speaker 1: a first baseman's a third baseman with no range. Right
[57:35] Speaker 1: a third baseman needs range and more athletic ability. That's
[57:37] Speaker 1: why Mark maguire ends over like a d H or
[57:40] Speaker 1: he can play first base, the center fielder, and the shortstop.
[57:43] Speaker 1: Of your great athletes, and I think, what football does.
[57:48] Speaker 1: I think they're really good drafters. They find even receivers. Now,
[57:52] Speaker 1: is he a boundary guy? Is he a slot guy?
[57:55] Speaker 1: You can't just draft a guy because it's like and
[57:57] Speaker 1: you know a lot of teams play zone. I guess
[57:59] Speaker 1: my whole point is what makes football difficult to draft
[58:03] Speaker 1: is that you have to have a specific skill, you
[58:07] Speaker 1: have to match the coaching staff, you have to stay healthy.
[58:13] Speaker 1: There's a lot of thing. That's why they're so go
[58:15] Speaker 1: look on it. Every team in this league you have
[58:17] Speaker 1: fifty five guys. Take the Eagles out. There's about four
[58:22] Speaker 1: really great players on every team. That's about even the Rams.
[58:26] Speaker 1: Stafford's great, Pukah's great versus great.
[58:31] Speaker 2: And there's a lot of good.
[58:33] Speaker 1: There's a lot of good.
[58:35] Speaker 2: I also think, like, let's say we do this podcast
[58:38] Speaker 2: and by the end of tomorrow, two hundred and fifty
[58:41] Speaker 2: thousand people have listened, watched right consume this podcast. That's
[58:46] Speaker 2: a concrete number, easy to evaluate if you want to
[58:50] Speaker 2: sell it to advertisers. It's very black and white. We're
[58:52] Speaker 2: in football. Let's say I have I'm a prospect and
[58:55] Speaker 2: I play at UCLA and I get eleven sacks, but
[59:00] Speaker 2: seven of them came against UC Davis, against New Mexico
[59:04] Speaker 2: and against the worst team in the Big Ten. And
[59:07] Speaker 2: I had no sacks when we played Oregon, Ohio State, Michigan,
[59:11] Speaker 2: Penn State. It's like, well, you know, on all the lists,
[59:14] Speaker 2: this guy was one of the highest productive guys double
[59:17] Speaker 2: digitsack guys power for conference Big Ten. It's like, well, actually,
[59:22] Speaker 2: you know, let's really dive into this. You know, Khalil
[59:25] Speaker 2: Mack played at a small school, but he played Ohio
[59:28] Speaker 2: State his senior year at three sacks against Taylor Decker,
[59:31] Speaker 2: So it was like, I don't really know. Obviously he's
[59:33] Speaker 2: got these physical attributes, but I watched him do it
[59:35] Speaker 2: against that team. And the other track is there are
[59:40] Speaker 2: you know, in any business, the humans play a role,
[59:44] Speaker 2: but when you acquire a company, a lot of times
[59:46] Speaker 2: it's a product. It's something that's already kind of like
[59:49] Speaker 2: a built in infrastructure that aren't always human dependent, especially
[59:54] Speaker 2: now with technology right where in football it's never going
[59:57] Speaker 2: to change. As long as football, you're you're acquiring a
[59:59] Speaker 2: human and being. So it's like, how can he handle it?
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: How like physically is he tough enough? Because you can
[1:00:06] Speaker 2: get by. This happens in high school a lot. It's
[1:00:09] Speaker 2: why I think a lot of these coaches like I'm
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: not giving a high school player a million dollars, Like
[1:00:13] Speaker 2: I'm at Georgia o' house state, Like, okay, Jeremiah Smith,
[1:00:18] Speaker 2: but there's been a lot of Jeremiah Smith that everyone
[1:00:19] Speaker 2: thought was Jeremiah Smith. And he gets to college and
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: you never hear of him, and he never gets off
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: the bench because this guy's so much better than everyone
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: he's playing in high school. Right. So it's like once
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: you come to the NFL, like everyone's a pro. So
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: then practice like you just practicing. You just let's say
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: you play, you get a first round pick for the
[1:00:37] Speaker 2: Seattle Seahawks or the Arizona Cardinals. Like practice, you're playing
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: against the best players ever just in practice, let alone
[1:00:43] Speaker 2: the games that are about to come. So I think
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: it can really expose you. This is why drafting is
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: so difficult because you're dealing with humans with all these
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: variables that unlike all these other industries. Jimmy Haslam gave
[1:00:55] Speaker 2: a big press conference like earlier this week and he
[1:00:57] Speaker 2: even said, like, you know, in all my other industries,
[1:01:00] Speaker 2: if I want to hire a guy, I can just
[1:01:01] Speaker 2: hire him if something's going wrong. It's very easy to
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: figure out what a lot of unknowns in this business,
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: like was the play call? Is this guy dumb? Is
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: this guy not fast enough? You know, you just don't know.
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: Like the industry were in, it's it's pretty black and white.
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: I'd say football has the most variables, yea, of all
[1:01:17] Speaker 2: the sports.
[1:01:18] Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean remember the kid from Clemson Simmons that
[1:01:22] Speaker 1: got drafted a few years ago. I think Steve Kim
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: drafted him, and.
[1:01:25] Speaker 2: He was a tall kind of hybrid linebackers and he.
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: Was just like, holy god, he was a playmaker. And
[1:01:31] Speaker 1: then he goes to the pros and you're like, what
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: is he yet? Honey Badger, who wasn't fast enough to
[1:01:39] Speaker 1: be a lockdown corner? Honey Badger had a what is
[1:01:43] Speaker 1: he exactly? But his instincts were so insane that Honey
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: Badger becomes a great player and Simmons I always feel
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: like left too much on the cutting room floor. That's
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: just not enough. And I think those are two great
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: players where a lot of people, because of the drug
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: stuff with Honey Badger, were off him. And I remember
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: hearing from a assistant coach at LSU who said he
[1:02:09] Speaker 1: is the most instinctive player I've ever seen. I remember
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: watching LSU games with him. If there was a fumble,
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: he was on it. He was let literally by any turnover,
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: any tackle, and I'm like, Jesus, this kid can And
[1:02:21] Speaker 1: so Steve Kim told me that he goes. We thought
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: he had the best instincts we'd ever seen. So but
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: Simmons came in and it felt a little bit of
[1:02:29] Speaker 1: not positionless, but you weren't quite sure. And I always
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: felt he disappointed me. And that's a prime example of football,
[1:02:37] Speaker 1: like unless you have incredible instincts, you can be big,
[1:02:41] Speaker 1: strong and fast, but you just don't fit a system.
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: Well, think about this. It's a little dated because he
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: got kicked out of LSU for weed, but at the
[1:02:48] Speaker 2: time it was a big deal. He got kicked off
[1:02:50] Speaker 2: the program. He did not play his junior year, thought
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: about coming back remember, and then he goes pro. He
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: gets drafted in the third round and becomes a team
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: captain for the next four teams he's on. And Patrick Peterson,
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: who at the time was like the best player beside
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: Larry Fitzgerald on the and Carson Palmer on the Cardinals
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: like two years in, called honey Badger the heartbeat of
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: the team. So he becomes the team captain of that team.
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: He becomes a team captain of the Texans for a year,
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: goes to the Chiefs with Andy Mahomes, Kelsey becomes a
[1:03:19] Speaker 2: team captain. I got buddies that were around him that
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: called him like one of their favorite players they'd ever
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: been around. You just the guy was kicked out of
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: the team and goes on to become Honestly, it's an
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: incredible story, like one of the high character leaders of
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: the league that everyone respected. But the Isaiah Simmons thing.
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: I remember texting someone on a really good team and said,
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: what do you think of this guy? They're like, we
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: really ding them on the toughness. Obviously physically he was
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: a freak free like you watch him like he kinda
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: We didn't think he was just a hammer. You know
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: this he's not playing like Whu Funger or something down
[1:03:51] Speaker 2: and that, And that's hard to play when you're like
[1:03:53] Speaker 2: this hybrid Whu Fungo was this hybrid guy? What will
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: who fung to do? He will kill you? Ye know?
[1:03:58] Speaker 2: Why do coaches like who? Because like there's a physicality
[1:04:02] Speaker 2: when you're in space. You're either gonna be you better
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: be a lockdown guy or you kind of gotta have
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: a little cam Chancellor to you, you know, to play
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: in that roaming hybrid linebacker.
[1:04:12] Speaker 1: Say, think about Chase Young. I would have bet any
[1:04:16] Speaker 1: amount of money ten year All Pro where'd he go?
[1:04:20] Speaker 1: I mean Max Crosby is what we thought Chase Young
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: would be. So I mean yeah, I mean again, Clowny
[1:04:26] Speaker 1: a guy that some of these guys are so big
[1:04:28] Speaker 1: in high school, like they just in golf players. They
[1:04:31] Speaker 1: get a five star, they go to a big school,
[1:04:34] Speaker 1: they're surrounded by other great players, and they are splash players.
[1:04:38] Speaker 1: Clowny made highlight plays at South Carolina. He's a splash player.
[1:04:43] Speaker 1: But they're physically they grow up faster than other kids.
[1:04:46] Speaker 1: They're unblockable. The Andy katzen Moyer legendary, like one of
[1:04:50] Speaker 1: the best high school players ever they're just too big
[1:04:52] Speaker 1: to guard. And then they go to college and they're
[1:04:54] Speaker 1: still really good college players, but they're surrounded by five
[1:04:57] Speaker 1: star guys. They're really good guys, so they get, you know,
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: singularly blocked and they have some splash plays. But and
[1:05:05] Speaker 1: then I thought.
[1:05:06] Speaker 2: Naji Harris, who was when I was living in the
[1:05:08] Speaker 2: Bay Area, was I think the number one high school
[1:05:11] Speaker 2: recruising in the state of California. Harbball wanted him bad. Obviously,
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: Savan ended up getting him. He didn't really play at
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: a high level till his senior year in high school.
[1:05:19] Speaker 2: I remember texting someone around the program. They're like, well,
[1:05:21] Speaker 2: he kind of looked like a college guy at sixteen
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: years old. Yeah, and you know, I think Harball I
[1:05:27] Speaker 2: thought it was a little bit of an overpay. Obviously
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: you had the fourth of July incident. But why did
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: Harbaugh sign him? Because he's loved him since, you know,
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: when he tried to sign him at Michigan. I think
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: a lot of you talk to some other people around
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: the league, they're like, eh, Naji Harris not our cup
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: of tea. But Naji Harris a good example of in
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: high school. Naji Harris was a grown man playing against
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: high school kids, and that's why he went to Alabama.
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[1:06:03] Speaker 1: a legend in a bottle today. All right, John Middle
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: cooffin I for an hour. We're getting very close. We
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: are getting very very close to the football season. And
[1:06:16] Speaker 1: I'll kind of tell you, John, I have played eleven
[1:06:20] Speaker 1: rounds of golf this summer. That's setting a new record
[1:06:23] Speaker 1: for me. And for years and years, my wife would
[1:06:26] Speaker 1: always say, you know, you got to find a hobby.
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: What are you going to do. You're sixty. You got
[1:06:30] Speaker 1: to find a hobby at some point. And I'm like,
[1:06:33] Speaker 1: I told her this weekend, I said, I was going
[1:06:37] Speaker 1: to learn French. I was going to learn their language.
[1:06:41] Speaker 1: I was going to get into drawing, kind of stick
[1:06:43] Speaker 1: figure drawing. I was going to get drawing class. And
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: I said, you know what I learned about myself. My
[1:06:49] Speaker 1: hobby has to be moving. I like, I got to
[1:06:52] Speaker 1: be moving. And this weekend I said, I love golf.
[1:06:56] Speaker 1: I love playing golf. I found my hobby, and so
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: I think for the last ten years I've been looking
[1:07:02] Speaker 1: for a hobby. And my wife's just been joking over
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: and over. She's like, you keep telling me you bought
[1:07:07] Speaker 1: a wine story because you thought it was gonna be
[1:07:08] Speaker 1: wine and then it was drawing. Then you're gonna learn French.
[1:07:12] Speaker 1: I I'm not addicted, but I think about golf now
[1:07:16] Speaker 1: the minute I get on a plane to go and
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: hang out. That's what I'm thinking about.
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: I think it's got a lot of attributes that you
[1:07:23] Speaker 2: would enjoy. One you can you can have a cocktail
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: while you're doing it outside, so in the sun, and
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: I do think an underrated part. Even if you're playing
[1:07:32] Speaker 2: with someone you don't know that well, you can have
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: really good conversations about a lot of different things. It
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: is a very conversational Uh it's not you know you
[1:07:40] Speaker 2: you got to get If you want to work out,
[1:07:42] Speaker 2: you probably got to do it. Separate of golf, I
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: would not call it much of a physical activity if
[1:07:46] Speaker 2: you're in the cart, little walking depend on the course.
[1:07:49] Speaker 2: But to me, where the social elements. Because I'm with you,
[1:07:53] Speaker 2: I love it, But like I haven't played in three weeks,
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: Like I don't need to, Like I'm not addicted, and
[1:07:58] Speaker 2: why I always got to be on the course. I
[1:07:59] Speaker 2: use it. It's just a vehicle sometimes to get out.
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: But it does bring a social element into my life
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: that I could easily avoid as I just go tunnel
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: vision of work and my wife and not doing much
[1:08:09] Speaker 2: gets me. Get you talking in it's a couple of
[1:08:11] Speaker 2: cocktails usually involved. It's you rarely have a bad time,
[1:08:15] Speaker 2: especially in the summer. You get a little sweat outside,
[1:08:18] Speaker 2: enjoy yourself. Maybe cocktail after too, Like do you pull
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: into the clubhouse or the outside bar? Oh, have a
[1:08:23] Speaker 2: cool one?
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: No, it's And I got my group of guys in
[1:08:28] Speaker 1: a Rhode Island and I I just I always understood
[1:08:32] Speaker 1: why guys liked it. I just didn't have time for it.
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you my whole life, I've been
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: looking for a hobby and I found it. And I
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: told my wife, and I told her this yesterday. I said,
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: you know, you've been laughing for years that I can't.
[1:08:46] Speaker 1: My wife's like, your works, your hobby. You love podcasting,
[1:08:49] Speaker 1: you love doing that, you like reading about sports, And
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but I need something else, and exercise
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: isn't a hobby. It's just exercise, and I found it.
[1:08:59] Speaker 1: I'm just sort of that's all.
[1:09:00] Speaker 2: That's the only extra hobby you need. That's that's sports
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: and golf. That's your life and my dogs. All right, buddy,
[1:09:09] Speaker 2: take it ease, see you soon. The volume

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