# Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright: Tatum Was “Infuriating” In Game 2, Why Draymond Green “Gets Away” With Fouls, Cowboys Can’t Save George Pickens

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 9 May 2025, 1 h 16 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/9da38250-c360-47ed-b4a1-b2d80016b6ba/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin’s joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1! They start with the first American ever being named Pope and Colin asks Nick for his “Pope power rankings” (4:00), why it’s incredibly exciting to have an American pope (7:15), and why even agnostic people can lean on faith in a higher power during difficult times (9:00). Colin calls out Nick for looking like the Shroud of Turin, and they highlight their doppelgangers (15:30). They pivot to the NBA and Colin’s right/wrong takes on Jayson Tatum and the Celtics (28:00), why it would be really great for the league if the Knicks won the series (34:00), and why the underdogs have been winning (36:00). Nick provides a lengthy professional poker analogy to explain what’s happening to the Celtics and their 3 point shooting (38:00) and Colin compares them to the Miami Dolphins (45:00). They discuss why Draymond Green is given more leeway on technical fouls and physical play than any player ever, but also highlight his incredible value as a defender (54:00). They compare Draymond’s self awareness about the type of player he is to Shedeur Sanders lack of it. They argue Shedeur was never given an honest evaluation and point to the transactional nature of sports journalism as part of the reason for it (1:10:00). Finally, they pour cold water on the idea of the Dallas Cowboys being the team to make it “work” with George Pickens (1:21:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

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[1:08] Speaker 1: we haven't talked in a while. I mean, I think
[1:10] Speaker 1: the important thing to start with is the first American pope.
[1:15] Speaker 1: And I've got a question to you, because you're really
[1:18] Speaker 1: good with rankings. Is there a power rankings for pope?
[1:21] Speaker 1: How do you well? In my lifetime? John Paul the second? Okay,
[1:25] Speaker 1: I just feel like he was.
[1:26] Speaker 2: An old timer. I also remember, because I grew up Catholic,
[1:31] Speaker 2: I know that it was a big deal there. So
[1:35] Speaker 2: I'm going to get this wrong, but there was some
[1:38] Speaker 2: maybe something happened where Saint Patrick's Day maybe fell on
[1:44] Speaker 2: a Friday during Lent. There was something where it's like,
[1:48] Speaker 2: oh man, a bunch of Catholics want to eat meat
[1:51] Speaker 2: this day, but it's a like a Friday during Lent
[1:55] Speaker 2: when you're only supposed to have fish. I just remember
[1:57] Speaker 2: that he was like I talked to God and this
[1:59] Speaker 2: one time it's okay, And I was like, hey, guys, awesome.
[2:02] Speaker 2: I was like, all right, he audible. Again. I never
[2:08] Speaker 2: know anything that I read on the internet these days,
[2:10] Speaker 2: But if it's true that this is our first ever
[2:13] Speaker 2: pope to have a spicy Twitter presence.
[2:17] Speaker 1: I like that.
[2:18] Speaker 2: I also do think that in the midst of this
[2:23] Speaker 2: Nicks run, the fact that the pope went to Villa Nova.
[2:27] Speaker 2: It has to be a good sign.
[2:29] Speaker 1: Well, I mean, right there, you know he's a culture guy.
[2:32] Speaker 1: I mean nobody, everybody that goes to Villanova's part of
[2:35] Speaker 1: some sort of cool culture. I also, I gotta tell
[2:39] Speaker 1: you I have probably over the last decade, maybe you know,
[2:47] Speaker 1: I don't want to say I've become less patriotic, but
[2:50] Speaker 1: I maybe that's what it is.
[2:51] Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's I've gotten less repped up. I
[2:54] Speaker 2: feel like for most of us people my age were
[2:56] Speaker 2: at like peek patriotism post nine to eleven, like we
[3:00] Speaker 2: need to sign up for the military, like I need
[3:02] Speaker 2: American flag tattoo, And then maybe it's just waned slightly
[3:05] Speaker 2: since then. I do have to say when I heard
[3:08] Speaker 2: them say American Pope, I was.
[3:11] Speaker 1: Like, that is awesome.
[3:12] Speaker 2: I was like I didn't even know we were eligible,
[3:15] Speaker 2: Like for some reason I thought. I was like, I
[3:17] Speaker 2: didn't even know that was on the board. This guy
[3:20] Speaker 2: went to Chicago, was born in Chicago, went to Nova,
[3:22] Speaker 2: and now he's the pope.
[3:23] Speaker 1: That's pretty sick. Well, you know it's pretty sick. You know,
[3:26] Speaker 1: Canada didn't have a say they're pissed off of us.
[3:28] Speaker 1: So yeah.
[3:29] Speaker 2: I mean also, then I was reading more again, this
[3:33] Speaker 2: is gonna I now feel like the people on Twitter
[3:37] Speaker 2: I hate who are just if you check their timeline
[3:40] Speaker 2: over the last six years, they've been an expert on
[3:43] Speaker 2: everything right from communical communicable diseases to election standards to
[3:49] Speaker 2: tariffs to inflation. They know everything about everything. So I
[3:52] Speaker 2: don't claim to know a lot about this at all,
[3:55] Speaker 2: but I did read in the bio. I'm like, hold on,
[3:58] Speaker 2: he got his big emotion was he got to recommend
[4:03] Speaker 2: who got to be a cardinal and who didn't. And
[4:06] Speaker 2: then this the new pope is voted on by the cardinals.
[4:11] Speaker 2: So at least in my world, I'm like, we all
[4:13] Speaker 2: the guys voting kind of owe their jobs to him.
[4:15] Speaker 2: He should have been way better than one hundred to
[4:17] Speaker 2: one betting favor like dog like he had an inside track.
[4:21] Speaker 2: All these guys got to like him. So I think
[4:23] Speaker 2: it's pretty cool. I'm excited for it.
[4:25] Speaker 1: No, I was actually into it today and somebody on
[4:28] Speaker 1: the staff had said, all these people showing up, and
[4:32] Speaker 1: I said, guys, you have to remember, if you're a
[4:35] Speaker 1: devout Catholic, I mean, this is people get excited when
[4:39] Speaker 1: the Patriots have a new coach. You don't think they're
[4:42] Speaker 1: going to get excited for a new pope.
[4:44] Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I do think that particularly the crowd is stunning,
[4:50] Speaker 2: and how emotional and moving it is for people remarkable,
[4:55] Speaker 2: And I think folks that aren't the devoutly religious it
[5:03] Speaker 2: oddly the best comp might be like the way we
[5:07] Speaker 2: get worked up about like if your team wins a championship,
[5:10] Speaker 2: like we'll go to the parade like and it's not.
[5:13] Speaker 1: I I'm agnostic and it it was emotional to me.
[5:17] Speaker 2: It's moving and seeing and I also do I also
[5:21] Speaker 2: think it's an interesting reminder again as someone who's raised Catholic,
[5:25] Speaker 2: did you know first Communion all that stuff went? Hell,
[5:29] Speaker 2: that's odd went to Catholic school until fifth grade. That
[5:35] Speaker 2: it is a reminder of the you know, when you
[5:39] Speaker 2: see like how powerful the Catholic churches, particularly in like
[5:44] Speaker 2: Latin America, and you see the different flags and it
[5:48] Speaker 2: is I think it is a cool, special thing. And
[5:51] Speaker 2: I mean there was not to get to like into
[5:55] Speaker 2: you know, world history, but there have been large stretches
[5:59] Speaker 2: of human history when the most powerful person in the
[6:04] Speaker 2: world was the pope. Well you know what I mean,
[6:06] Speaker 2: where that was the high essentially the highest office in
[6:09] Speaker 2: the land. I don't know if that is necessarily still
[6:11] Speaker 2: the case, but it is still it's it's a heck
[6:14] Speaker 2: of a thing.
[6:15] Speaker 1: And I feel, honestly in my over the last six
[6:19] Speaker 1: to seven years, is that I think a lot of
[6:23] Speaker 1: people look at religion for a grounding mechanism. You know,
[6:27] Speaker 1: they don't they don't necessarily read the Bible every day,
[6:30] Speaker 1: but if they go through a crisis, they lose somebody
[6:32] Speaker 1: in their family, it grounds them. It's a foundational, structural
[6:36] Speaker 1: piece of their life. And I do think. You know,
[6:39] Speaker 1: I told my wife this about a year ago. I said,
[6:43] Speaker 1: people keep saying we're becoming less religious. I said, watch
[6:46] Speaker 1: with Ai. AI. A lot of people don't know where
[6:51] Speaker 1: it's going. You're going to be replaced, and I said,
[6:55] Speaker 1: people are going to look for security and to get
[6:59] Speaker 1: their feet up on the ground. The more fluidity and
[7:02] Speaker 1: the more change in the world, the more people seek structure.
[7:06] Speaker 1: Almost as if when we're in wartime, ice cream sales
[7:10] Speaker 1: go up and comfort food goes up. Well, Ai, you
[7:15] Speaker 1: know what's happening in the world with tech, but Ai especially,
[7:19] Speaker 1: I mean, there are people making predictions that you know,
[7:22] Speaker 1: thirty percent of jobs will be eliminated. I think during
[7:25] Speaker 1: times like that, we have an interesting way as human
[7:28] Speaker 1: beings to seeking the really important things, which is family, love, security, home.
[7:37] Speaker 1: I think will become less mobile as a nation. People
[7:41] Speaker 1: will feel disjointed if you know they're losing jobs, and
[7:47] Speaker 1: you know, they feel a sense of what's real and
[7:50] Speaker 1: what's not in robots. And I really do think. I
[7:53] Speaker 1: think religion, and I'm again I say this to somebody
[7:56] Speaker 1: that's not religious, I think religion is making a bit
[7:58] Speaker 1: of a comeback.
[8:00] Speaker 2: Didn't make a good of a company, Yeah, I love that.
[8:03] Speaker 2: So I so I have a lot of thoughts on
[8:08] Speaker 2: this because so I you know, this is the saying
[8:15] Speaker 2: there's no atheist in a fox hole, right, So like
[8:18] Speaker 2: that is that is to me, like somewhat objectively true.
[8:22] Speaker 2: So I'll just tell an anecdote from my personal life
[8:26] Speaker 2: or a couple actually, So nine years ago, gosh, I
[8:33] Speaker 2: think it was nine years ago, I got I got
[8:38] Speaker 2: a call from one of my dad's friends that and
[8:44] Speaker 2: it was one of those things where I'm like the
[8:46] Speaker 2: moment I saw the name on the phone and I
[8:49] Speaker 2: was like, well, this has I don't know how I
[8:51] Speaker 2: just like this is bad, Like this guy wouldn't call
[8:53] Speaker 2: me and it's a night and you know what I
[8:54] Speaker 2: mean the moment I got the call and he my
[8:58] Speaker 2: dad had had a medical event and he and it
[9:01] Speaker 2: was out of nowhere and he said, hey, Nikki, you
[9:07] Speaker 2: got to come to the hospital. And I said, I'm like, okay,
[9:11] Speaker 2: is my dad okay? And he said, I don't know.
[9:14] Speaker 2: And it was about a fifteen minute drive from my apartment.
[9:18] Speaker 2: This is when I was still in so I'm setting
[9:20] Speaker 2: I got it wrong. It wasn't nine years ago. I
[9:22] Speaker 2: was still lived in Kansas City, so fifteen years ago,
[9:24] Speaker 2: twelve years ago, whatever, maybe twelve thirteen years ago. And
[9:29] Speaker 2: uh And on the way to the hospital, I guess
[9:33] Speaker 2: I was praying. I was, you know what I mean,
[9:36] Speaker 2: I was. I was talking to some I was basically
[9:38] Speaker 2: saying like, please let my dad be okay. Like I
[9:42] Speaker 2: you know, I was doing a thing that a lot
[9:44] Speaker 2: of people have done in those spots, which is like
[9:46] Speaker 2: you're like making deals like if you let my dad
[9:49] Speaker 2: be okay all whatever, and by I should have maybe
[9:51] Speaker 2: led with this. My dad's was walked out of the
[9:54] Speaker 2: hospital day and a half later, and it's you know,
[9:56] Speaker 2: still with us now and doing great and still work
[9:58] Speaker 2: and everything. So he was fine, But in that moment,
[10:02] Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I've always said I'm as
[10:06] Speaker 2: an adult, I've always said I'm agnostic, but I sure
[10:10] Speaker 2: didn't feel it in the then like that, in that
[10:13] Speaker 2: and then I'll tell one other, much more contemporary, which
[10:18] Speaker 2: is we had a it's coming up on a year here.
[10:24] Speaker 2: In a couple of months, we had a very very
[10:27] Speaker 2: close young family friend passed suddenly. It is really like
[10:33] Speaker 2: the worst type of thing, seemingly totally healthy and just
[10:37] Speaker 2: brain aneurysm, just done, and it was I was very
[10:42] Speaker 2: close with this person. But this was one of my
[10:44] Speaker 2: wife's two best friends in the entire world. And my
[10:49] Speaker 2: wife is religious, and that is something that as a family, like,
[10:56] Speaker 2: I don't think we're we're not over it. I think
[11:00] Speaker 2: we're still where we were with her mother day before yesterday,
[11:04] Speaker 2: Like we're still kind of all processing it. But I
[11:06] Speaker 2: think the only thing that has allowed my wife, that
[11:09] Speaker 2: allowed my wife to not like really break from it,
[11:15] Speaker 2: is her faith. Yeah, is the fact that she believes,
[11:18] Speaker 2: like there, you know, there she still feels like she
[11:24] Speaker 2: not talks to I don't want to speak for her,
[11:26] Speaker 2: but like can feel her friend Ashley and a presence
[11:30] Speaker 2: and like that and so all of that, and I
[11:33] Speaker 2: found myself a little envious almost that like, wow, that
[11:39] Speaker 2: is that's a pitch I don't have, which is you
[11:43] Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, I I think that's really cool,
[11:48] Speaker 2: and also I see the real utility in it, and
[11:52] Speaker 2: I obviously and then I'll stop work every day with
[11:55] Speaker 2: an incredibly religious person in Brew, and I think I've
[12:01] Speaker 2: said to anyone who whenever people ask me about Brew
[12:04] Speaker 2: and then like if we actually have a real conversation,
[12:08] Speaker 2: I always say, he to me is the embodiment of
[12:13] Speaker 2: what in an ideal world a religious person is, which
[12:17] Speaker 2: is never preachy. I've never seen him be judgmental and
[12:25] Speaker 2: but always carries himself, even as a grown man, as
[12:31] Speaker 2: if like, hey, I don't want to disappoint, like I
[12:35] Speaker 2: have a standard to uphold, and I think it's for
[12:37] Speaker 2: him the standard of the Lord and wants to help people.
[12:42] Speaker 2: And I find it so I find it really really endearing.
[12:47] Speaker 2: And so yeah, the I obviously didn't know we were going
[12:50] Speaker 2: to talk about this, but I love talking about this.
[12:52] Speaker 2: I love talking about random stuff with you, and so
[12:55] Speaker 2: that is those are kind of my pope takes.
[12:58] Speaker 1: And there's an argument to be made as I, as
[13:01] Speaker 1: you look at the camera, there is an argument to
[13:05] Speaker 1: be made that I and I believe this. There's about
[13:09] Speaker 1: a six percent chance you are the shroud of Turin
[13:13] Speaker 1: you do have there is like it's.
[13:20] Speaker 2: So, I gotta so, I have to tell you something.
[13:23] Speaker 2: And maybe they can make this breakout video for social
[13:28] Speaker 2: and I wish and maybe one of the producers can
[13:31] Speaker 2: text it to you so you can see it. So
[13:34] Speaker 2: there was a Star Wars character that a Star Wars
[13:39] Speaker 2: cartoon and I tweeted about it at the time. It's
[13:43] Speaker 2: I'm not a Star Wars fan, so I can't remember it,
[13:48] Speaker 2: but it would not be that hard to find. They
[13:49] Speaker 2: made a Star Wars cartoon about a young a younger
[13:52] Speaker 2: version of a famous older character, and that character, Colin,
[13:57] Speaker 2: his likeness was me. It was it was so me
[14:02] Speaker 2: that I'm this this part is going to be embarrassing.
[14:06] Speaker 2: I did briefly talk to a lawyer like, hey, is
[14:12] Speaker 2: this actionable? If Disney is making a billion dollar thing
[14:17] Speaker 2: and that's my face it was unmistakable. I'm watching right
[14:22] Speaker 2: here that yes, that right there? So that so that
[14:26] Speaker 2: that's a few years ago. There is a new there
[14:31] Speaker 2: is a new movie out. It's a it's a Jesus movie.
[14:39] Speaker 2: It's another cartoon. I don't know if they base the
[14:45] Speaker 2: cartoon the likeness of Jesus off that character or off me.
[14:49] Speaker 2: But when I tell you, and see if the producers
[14:52] Speaker 2: can send this to you, When I tell you that
[14:56] Speaker 2: the in the new Jesus cartoon movie that came out
[15:01] Speaker 2: two months ago, if you didn't know anything, and you
[15:05] Speaker 2: just got a still image of it, you would say, Oh,
[15:08] Speaker 2: someone drew a cartoon picture of Nick and it is.
[15:13] Speaker 2: It is stunning that because I've now grown my hair,
[15:18] Speaker 2: and I guess the beard, and I guess in some
[15:20] Speaker 2: depictions Jesus must have a weird nose. It that there
[15:25] Speaker 2: is that resemblance to how he is portrayed in modern media.
[15:31] Speaker 2: And I'll tell you one funny story. I was at
[15:36] Speaker 2: a casino in Paris and I'm walking down the stairs
[15:42] Speaker 2: and it's a fancy casino, like with a dress code,
[15:45] Speaker 2: like you've got to wear a suit or a tux
[15:47] Speaker 2: whatever it is. And I'm walking down the stairs and
[15:51] Speaker 2: one of the security is like, I know you, and
[15:57] Speaker 2: I have a moment where I'm like, this is all.
[16:01] Speaker 2: I'm like, we're at a high falutin casino in Paris
[16:04] Speaker 2: and I'm out here getting recognized. Like in my head,
[16:07] Speaker 2: I'm like, this is sweet. This guy's got a thick accent.
[16:09] Speaker 2: I don't even know how much English he speaks. And
[16:11] Speaker 2: he watched his first things first and I'm like, oh,
[16:15] Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I do sports TV. And he's like, no,
[16:18] Speaker 2: that's not it, and then he starts laughing. He's like, Jesus,
[16:23] Speaker 2: that's where I know you. It was just making fun
[16:25] Speaker 2: of me. And I thought I thought he was a viewer,
[16:30] Speaker 2: but he was just making fun of me because of
[16:32] Speaker 2: the hair.
[16:33] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[16:33] Speaker 2: But so that's that's.
[16:36] Speaker 1: That the only the only likeness I've ever had in
[16:41] Speaker 1: my life. And it was bizarre. Here is by the way,
[16:50] Speaker 1: that new picture of you?
[16:52] Speaker 2: Yeah that yes, yeah, that one. That's they gotta do it.
[16:56] Speaker 2: There's even a better one. But that's the movie. I mean,
[16:59] Speaker 2: come on, like, what's happening here?
[17:02] Speaker 1: So I find guys. Find the picture of the Swiss
[17:09] Speaker 1: World Cup goalie. I am not joking. It lasted for
[17:14] Speaker 1: a year. I literally went online to see if there.
[17:19] Speaker 1: It was like is there family heritage? Because a lot
[17:22] Speaker 1: of people will send me stuff. It was it looked
[17:26] Speaker 1: like me.
[17:27] Speaker 2: I'm thirty six years old exactly, So I got I
[17:31] Speaker 2: So what will surprise people that didn't know me when
[17:35] Speaker 2: I first started with you almost to god, now it's
[17:38] Speaker 2: been almost ten years, believe it or not. I used
[17:41] Speaker 2: that have it basically a shaved head. And at that
[17:43] Speaker 2: time I also lived in Texas and I'm Italian. So
[17:48] Speaker 2: when I tan like my complexion gets kind of like
[17:51] Speaker 2: more of like a olive.
[17:53] Speaker 1: You're Sicilian almost yeah.
[17:56] Speaker 2: Right, So I got and I used to not have
[18:00] Speaker 2: the beard just to go tee in a shaved head.
[18:03] Speaker 2: I it was. I got Shaka Smart, the basketball coach
[18:07] Speaker 2: all the time. I got Shokas Smart, and then I
[18:10] Speaker 2: got there was an Ole Miss basketball player that everyone hated.
[18:16] Speaker 2: That again, the producers could really put this together. Marshall Henderson.
[18:20] Speaker 2: I got Marshall Henderson shot a Smart a lot. But
[18:22] Speaker 2: the thing is, the reason I get a lot is
[18:26] Speaker 2: the same reason Scott Van Pelt gets a lot. Scott
[18:29] Speaker 2: van Pelt. It's like shit got bald guy glasses. They
[18:33] Speaker 2: didn't even look like Scott van Pelt. For me, it's
[18:36] Speaker 2: does your fit? Is there anyone in the world who
[18:39] Speaker 2: has like a roller coaster nose and your facial hair,
[18:44] Speaker 2: and then they'll say I look like them, So I
[18:46] Speaker 2: there's a bunch of look likes. I also still to
[18:49] Speaker 2: this day sometimes people see me and ask and this
[18:54] Speaker 2: one is not complimentary, because I get a bunch of
[18:56] Speaker 2: not complimentary ones. I get Manu Ginobili. There was a
[18:59] Speaker 2: guy named Frank Reebery who was a French soccer player
[19:02] Speaker 2: who had a giant facial scar, and they still was
[19:04] Speaker 2: they thought it was me, but Tom Green, Tom Green again.
[19:10] Speaker 2: The I get a lot of bad ones. I'm just
[19:13] Speaker 2: gonna tell you, I've never there's never been like a
[19:16] Speaker 2: traditionally handsome man that people are like. Is that you.
[19:22] Speaker 2: It's always someone that has what you would call some
[19:25] Speaker 2: unique facial features that they think I look like. Yeah.
[19:29] Speaker 1: I don't get a lot of George Cloney either. Even
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[21:24] Speaker 2: So I can't believe you're not starting with a Tatum
[21:29] Speaker 2: victory let Okay, I can't believe it.
[21:31] Speaker 1: Well, okay, So there's two things where I don't think
[21:39] Speaker 1: about this a lot, but I did think about it
[21:41] Speaker 1: with Baker Mayfield. Is that because I'm older and I
[21:46] Speaker 1: know I'm talking about younger athletes, I don't like to
[21:50] Speaker 1: pick on them, and so I don't think people realize this.
[21:55] Speaker 1: I was rooting for Baker Mayfield to eventually grow up
[21:58] Speaker 1: and be great, and he has become that, and that
[22:02] Speaker 1: makes me actually happy. Fans tend to think that it
[22:07] Speaker 1: really bothers me when I'm wrong. You know me well,
[22:10] Speaker 1: and it doesn't you know this definitely not true. Yeah,
[22:12] Speaker 1: that's my wife said. I think you almost root to
[22:15] Speaker 1: be really wrong occasionally. So I think that's not what
[22:20] Speaker 1: gets me worked up. The things I think about are
[22:24] Speaker 1: being too hard on young people, and I think about
[22:27] Speaker 1: this a lot. So Westbrooks. This revelation that Westbrook can
[22:32] Speaker 1: shoot threes is I've been I've made sure it makes
[22:36] Speaker 1: every show Baker's emergence. And so here's funny. I defended Tatum.
[22:46] Speaker 2: After Game one.
[22:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's what I said. Here's my take. He
[22:50] Speaker 1: is so collaborative that he constantly beats people off the dribble,
[22:57] Speaker 1: but collaborative Jason Tatum then pulls back and takes a
[23:00] Speaker 1: worse shot because ingrained in this culture three at all costs,
[23:07] Speaker 1: it's ingrained, Danny Ainge, Brad Stevens. It's who they draft,
[23:13] Speaker 1: it's who they acquire, it's who they trade for. And
[23:17] Speaker 1: so Kobe and Michael would have fought that shit regularly.
[23:22] Speaker 1: He doesn't do that. He's a good kid. And so
[23:26] Speaker 1: I defended him and I said, I've seen him beat
[23:31] Speaker 1: people off the dribble and then pull back and shoot
[23:34] Speaker 1: an off Balance three, they're in his head, but so
[23:40] Speaker 1: I'm defending him. And then in Game two, Keiths infuriated me.
[23:47] Speaker 1: Two of his last three shots were followays. But I
[23:50] Speaker 1: and so I had to go back and just say today, Basically,
[23:53] Speaker 1: I said, Jalen Brunson is work boots and Jason Tatum
[23:59] Speaker 1: is French leather loafers. If it's drizzly, your best not
[24:03] Speaker 1: to wear him. He's not built. He's not built for
[24:07] Speaker 1: really intense resilient moments. He's not he Literally, when he
[24:13] Speaker 1: dunked it with eighteen seconds left, you and I had
[24:15] Speaker 1: the same reaction. WHOA, we should not have that reaction.
[24:21] Speaker 2: So agreed. So I have a There's two things that
[24:25] Speaker 2: I want to talk about here. The first one is
[24:28] Speaker 2: just a question for you because I don't and this
[24:32] Speaker 2: I think the audience is curious about. Did you when
[24:37] Speaker 2: you did the few months ago? Close your eyes and
[24:42] Speaker 2: think of Magic, think of Michael, think of le Bron,
[24:45] Speaker 2: think of Tatum. I know how I know you're you know,
[24:50] Speaker 2: kind of your process. So I know that that I
[24:52] Speaker 2: can kind of tell because I've been listening to you
[24:56] Speaker 2: my whole adult life. But also because I now know you,
[24:59] Speaker 2: I cann I can tell when something is totally off
[25:03] Speaker 2: the cuff or if that was like kind of the
[25:05] Speaker 2: prepared rant that was then gonna go somewhere. So I
[25:07] Speaker 2: know you, like you knew what you were gonna say.
[25:10] Speaker 2: Did you have any idea when you did that? Did
[25:14] Speaker 2: you think, oh, this is going to stick and resonate,
[25:20] Speaker 2: because I don't know if you saw it, but yesterday,
[25:24] Speaker 2: all over Twitter when that game ends, people were just
[25:29] Speaker 2: sending a screenshot of you with your eyes closed in
[25:34] Speaker 2: that segment. And then today people who I'm pretty sure
[25:40] Speaker 2: not I'm pretty sure I know it because they captioned
[25:43] Speaker 2: the tweet with basically some of the lines of I
[25:45] Speaker 2: don't fucking like this guy, but he nailed this like this, Uh,
[25:51] Speaker 2: did you have it when you finished that or when
[25:54] Speaker 2: you did that, did you feel like, oh, okay, everyone's
[25:58] Speaker 2: gonna get it, or did it just kind of end
[26:02] Speaker 2: up being a happy accident?
[26:05] Speaker 1: And then I have a second, I think that was
[26:07] Speaker 1: just a very lucky, happy accident. So, as you know,
[26:13] Speaker 1: I write notes down to remind me during a show.
[26:16] Speaker 1: I don't do a script, but I yellow if somebody
[26:19] Speaker 1: has a funny line or if I think of something,
[26:21] Speaker 1: I'll write it down. So I'm not necessarily sure. Outside
[26:25] Speaker 1: of my opening rant, where I have lots of notes,
[26:28] Speaker 1: it's I get really dot dot dot circle this dot
[26:32] Speaker 1: dot dot the start of my show, I usually have
[26:34] Speaker 1: an absolute direction on where I'm going, so I'm not sure,
[26:38] Speaker 1: and I never ever I have terrible instincts on what
[26:42] Speaker 1: pops and what doesn't. All these years, I have no idea.
[26:45] Speaker 1: Stuff I think's brilliant. It's crickets.
[26:49] Speaker 2: So that's that's kind of what I thought. What I
[26:52] Speaker 2: kind of thought was this is this was planned, like
[26:57] Speaker 2: Colin knew where he was going, but it wasn't like
[27:01] Speaker 2: this is gonna cut through everything. But for some reason,
[27:05] Speaker 2: not for some reason, I think it's because it was
[27:08] Speaker 2: a point that when you did it, a lot of
[27:10] Speaker 2: people were like, holy shit, he's right, Like, I don't
[27:12] Speaker 2: think there's nothing I can think of. So there's that.
[27:15] Speaker 2: The other point, you and I today right around the
[27:21] Speaker 2: exact same time. It's so funny because I'm doing my
[27:24] Speaker 2: podcasts for the volume right around the time your show
[27:29] Speaker 2: goes on the air, So you know, so without knowing
[27:33] Speaker 2: what you were going to say, and you obviously without
[27:35] Speaker 2: knowing what I was going to say, you and I
[27:37] Speaker 2: made a very similar point, which is for the sake
[27:44] Speaker 2: of the sport, it's really important the Knicks pull this
[27:49] Speaker 2: off absolutely because we are in such a copycat sports
[27:55] Speaker 2: world that and by the way, it will probably be
[28:00] Speaker 2: an overreaction. The way the Celtics play is probably the
[28:04] Speaker 2: right way to play, and probably so much so that
[28:09] Speaker 2: the league just needs to change some rules like Baseball
[28:13] Speaker 2: did in a lot of different ways to stem the tide. However,
[28:18] Speaker 2: I don't think the league is in a hurry to
[28:21] Speaker 2: make massive rule changes. And I also think that if
[28:25] Speaker 2: the Celtics get clocked by a team that couldn't beat
[28:28] Speaker 2: a good team all year and it's because they averaged
[28:32] Speaker 2: fifty threes a game and just went cold, that a
[28:35] Speaker 2: bunch of teams will just get cold feet and be like,
[28:40] Speaker 2: screw that, go down on the block. Go let's go
[28:44] Speaker 2: get some muscle, take some mid rangers, and the league
[28:48] Speaker 2: is more interesting that way.
[28:50] Speaker 1: Okay, So I want to throw something at you. I
[28:51] Speaker 1: think you'll really like this. And I talked about this today.
[28:54] Speaker 1: I said, why are we seeing so many underdogs win
[28:57] Speaker 1: home teams lose? Why are there so many upsets?
[29:02] Speaker 2: Yeah?
[29:02] Speaker 1: Because of two things. The use the heavy use of
[29:07] Speaker 1: three ball and analytics simultaneously, as the NBA decides, we're
[29:14] Speaker 1: going to make these the most physical playoffs ever. And
[29:18] Speaker 1: so what has happened is the finesse teams, you know,
[29:23] Speaker 1: the Warriors pro Jimmy Butler didn't get to the line,
[29:26] Speaker 1: The Celtics never get to the line. The finesse teams,
[29:28] Speaker 1: the pretty teams, the teams that during a regular season
[29:31] Speaker 1: walk into your arena you're tired, they're not. They're young,
[29:35] Speaker 1: deep and can shoot. Blow your doors off. Oklahoma City
[29:37] Speaker 1: can do this. And then the league goes, hey, little curveball,
[29:42] Speaker 1: it's now pro wrestling. And that rewards the Knicks, Draymond
[29:48] Speaker 1: Butler and the Warriors, the t Wolves against the pretty Lakers.
[29:53] Speaker 2: Is that it almost rewarded the Rockets against the Warriors.
[29:56] Speaker 2: They just couldn't score at all.
[29:58] Speaker 1: So the league, this is wh I am always I
[30:01] Speaker 1: call it analytics is baseball. Analytics are great in baseball
[30:06] Speaker 1: and basketball for a long season. But in the playoffs,
[30:12] Speaker 1: when a baseball manager will use starters out of the pen,
[30:17] Speaker 1: suddenly your analytics.
[30:19] Speaker 2: When you know a few.
[30:20] Speaker 1: Years ago, justin Verlanders now pitching in the eighth, it's like, okay,
[30:24] Speaker 1: that's not really a bullpit. You manage differently in the
[30:28] Speaker 1: postseason and in the NBA the league is gone, yeah,
[30:31] Speaker 1: we're not blowing the whistle. Well, now you're rewarding the
[30:35] Speaker 1: less skilled defensive mind limited teams like the Warriors without
[30:42] Speaker 1: staph Steph Leaves that Minnesota game. They were just as
[30:46] Speaker 1: effective because they just grabbed and pulled and held on it.
[30:50] Speaker 1: And the Knicks are built for these kind of playoffs.
[30:54] Speaker 1: So that's why I'm oh, I always call them analytics.
[30:58] Speaker 1: I love analytics. But postseason comes down to we're not
[31:03] Speaker 1: gonna blow the whistle. We're gonna let things slide. And
[31:07] Speaker 1: by the way, that's why Villanova guys, this is why
[31:10] Speaker 1: it's so fun. Villanova guys all play defense, all were
[31:15] Speaker 1: in close games. Kentucky had the personnel, Villanova had the soul.
[31:20] Speaker 1: Villanova even when they won national titles, they don't run
[31:23] Speaker 1: through the tournament and beat the shit out of people
[31:25] Speaker 1: Kentucky did. Kansas does. So these Villanova players go to
[31:28] Speaker 1: three to four years they've been playing defense. Three star
[31:32] Speaker 1: guys get to the NBA overlooked. Then they go to Tibbs,
[31:36] Speaker 1: who's like Jay Wright defense practice. So the Knicks are
[31:40] Speaker 1: built for a hyper aggressive playoff format, and the Celtics
[31:44] Speaker 1: are still good, but they're flawed with the change of officiating.
[31:50] Speaker 2: So there's a million pieces of that. I want to
[31:55] Speaker 2: jump on one, which is the giant sample versus the
[31:59] Speaker 2: shorter sample and trusting the math because something really interesting
[32:05] Speaker 2: and that you'll find this interesting because you're not a
[32:09] Speaker 2: poker player. So one of the things I have found
[32:14] Speaker 2: really interesting is a lot of people who clearly don't
[32:17] Speaker 2: play poker are making the point that the Celtics are
[32:23] Speaker 2: poker players. They're card counters, they're professional gamblers that know listen,
[32:30] Speaker 2: it's sixty forty my way, and I make that bet
[32:34] Speaker 2: enough times I eventually profit. And that does actually apply
[32:40] Speaker 2: and work for blackjack, where it is truly just you know,
[32:44] Speaker 2: you have a sample size of infinity if you want it,
[32:47] Speaker 2: and you know what you can the But poker is
[32:51] Speaker 2: different because the way the actual best UH poker players
[33:00] Speaker 2: work in a tournament format where there is escalating. So
[33:07] Speaker 2: again I'm gonna have to explain a little bit about
[33:08] Speaker 2: tournament poker, but I promise will be worth it to
[33:10] Speaker 2: the audience. Say there's a one hundred players in a
[33:13] Speaker 2: poker tournament, Yeah, eighty and it costs one thousand dollars
[33:17] Speaker 2: to get into it. So there's one hundred thousand dollars
[33:19] Speaker 2: in the prize pool. The first eighty five people eliminated
[33:23] Speaker 2: will get zero dollars. Final fifteen are the people who
[33:28] Speaker 2: get money. Yes, and then if it was one hundred again,
[33:32] Speaker 2: one hundred thousand.
[33:33] Speaker 1: World Series of Poker works right.
[33:35] Speaker 2: Exactly right, exactly right, except the numbers are bigger and
[33:37] Speaker 2: it's more people. But it's the interestween tournament poker and
[33:40] Speaker 2: a cash game. A cash game is I sit down
[33:43] Speaker 2: with a certain amount of money, I can get up
[33:45] Speaker 2: whenever I want up or down whatever. And then fifteenth
[33:48] Speaker 2: place under this tournament would probably you'd get fifteen hundred bucks,
[33:52] Speaker 2: so you'd profit five hundred dollars. First place you get
[33:55] Speaker 2: thirty five grand, second place you get twenty. And you
[33:59] Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's tiered, but it is really
[34:01] Speaker 2: rewards like getting into first or second or third versus
[34:07] Speaker 2: just barely getting into the money. Okay, that's how tournament
[34:09] Speaker 2: poker works. At the beginning of a poker tournament, a
[34:15] Speaker 2: professional player, if they know, all right, I have a
[34:23] Speaker 2: sixty percent chance of winning this hand. The money is
[34:28] Speaker 2: we're both You know I can call your all in
[34:30] Speaker 2: pre flop. I have X ray vision, I know your cards.
[34:35] Speaker 2: I'm a sixty forty favorite, even though two out of
[34:39] Speaker 2: five times I'm gonna lose. It's the beginning of the tournament.
[34:42] Speaker 2: I need to get chips. I have to call there,
[34:44] Speaker 2: I call, and you take the risk. That's that's smart.
[34:50] Speaker 2: That's the way they will play. If at the final
[34:53] Speaker 2: table of that tournament, that professional player looks around and says,
[35:00] Speaker 2: I'm the best player here. I have a sizable skill advantage,
[35:06] Speaker 2: then that player no longer has any interest in getting
[35:11] Speaker 2: involved in sixty forty confrontations even when they have the
[35:15] Speaker 2: sixty percent, because they know, yeah, in the long run,
[35:20] Speaker 2: all win. But this isn't a long run. This is
[35:23] Speaker 2: a sample of one and I have a two out
[35:26] Speaker 2: of five chance of losing. I would rather lower the variant,
[35:30] Speaker 2: play smaller pots, but it grind you down to where
[35:35] Speaker 2: I'm eventually an eighty five to fifteen favorite. So here's
[35:38] Speaker 2: why I tell that whole story. The Celtics shouldn't be
[35:42] Speaker 2: looking at this series like they're the best player at
[35:46] Speaker 2: the table and they have a better option than adding
[35:51] Speaker 2: all this variance by bombing threes. They should be saying,
[35:56] Speaker 2: the last thing we want is a cold shooting night
[35:59] Speaker 2: to call this the game because we're better than you.
[36:03] Speaker 2: The team that invented this strategy, the Houston Rockets with
[36:08] Speaker 2: under Daryl Morey, did it because they were never the
[36:12] Speaker 2: better team because they were trying to beat Steph Curry,
[36:15] Speaker 2: Kevin Duran and Klay Thompson. So they said, we want
[36:18] Speaker 2: to get into forty sixty battles even if we're on
[36:22] Speaker 2: the forty because we're gonna win those almost half the time.
[36:25] Speaker 2: The Celtics, this is my biggest criticism. They are approaching
[36:32] Speaker 2: this series like they can't beat them straight up. They're
[36:37] Speaker 2: approaching the series like they need luck in their favor.
[36:43] Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind this if this were the first two
[36:47] Speaker 2: games of the NBA Finals against Oklahoma City, because they
[36:51] Speaker 2: might look at Oklahoma City and be like, man, they're
[36:53] Speaker 2: better than us, So let's let's shake the snow globe
[36:56] Speaker 2: and add some variants to it. The Knicks, they shouldn't
[37:00] Speaker 2: felt that way, and their refusal, and here's the one
[37:03] Speaker 2: other thing that I'm going to add to it, there
[37:07] Speaker 2: is still an argument play the way you play for
[37:10] Speaker 2: at least the beginning of the game. In both of
[37:13] Speaker 2: these games, they've had a twenty point lead late. That
[37:19] Speaker 2: is obviously the moment to be like, hey, it's not
[37:23] Speaker 2: a long run, large sample anymore. It's can we play
[37:28] Speaker 2: a style of basketball that will give us the best
[37:31] Speaker 2: chance to finish these.
[37:33] Speaker 1: Next be very conservative investors. Let's pull out tech stocks
[37:38] Speaker 1: buy bonds for the next eight minutes.
[37:40] Speaker 2: That's right there you go. So that's your version of it.
[37:44] Speaker 2: It's the difference between how you are told to invest
[37:48] Speaker 2: your retirement. Yeah, when you're thirty versus when you're sixty two, Like,
[37:54] Speaker 2: those are different strategies. And the Celtics approach of being like,
[38:01] Speaker 2: we are going to play the fourth quarter of a
[38:04] Speaker 2: playoff game the exact style we would play the first
[38:08] Speaker 2: quarter of a February game is just that's not staying
[38:12] Speaker 2: true to who you are. That's being ridiculous. Yes, that
[38:15] Speaker 2: would be as if the Chiefs at their heyday of
[38:20] Speaker 2: the when Tyreek was there and everything, when they were
[38:24] Speaker 2: just high flying and didn't have a good defense, they
[38:28] Speaker 2: when they were up ten in the fourth quarter of
[38:31] Speaker 2: a playoff game, They're like, bombs away. This is what
[38:34] Speaker 2: we do. That's not smart. That's not staying true to
[38:38] Speaker 2: who you are.
[38:39] Speaker 1: That's why when the Miami Dolphins have Jalen Waddle and
[38:42] Speaker 1: Tyreek Kill, that works in September and October. But as
[38:45] Speaker 1: the weather gets windy and cold and the all the
[38:48] Speaker 1: best AFC teams play lousy weather, what you really need
[38:52] Speaker 1: to do, and this is a little bit of a
[38:54] Speaker 1: flaw with Mike McDaniels, is what you really need to
[38:56] Speaker 1: do is start to change your offense about thanksgime, because
[39:00] Speaker 1: you're going to have to go to Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Buffalo.
[39:04] Speaker 1: And so what happens is this is.
[39:05] Speaker 2: What we do.
[39:06] Speaker 1: We throw it downfield. Will you have a small, modest
[39:12] Speaker 1: armed quarterback and you're still trying and then you try
[39:16] Speaker 1: to pivot to No, it's too late. And so it
[39:20] Speaker 1: was always funny watching the Dolphins, and I'm like, guys,
[39:23] Speaker 1: you're falling in love with September and October football. This
[39:26] Speaker 1: stuff works. Then the NFL think about this. Name the
[39:30] Speaker 1: last Dome dynasty in the NFL. Name the last warm
[39:34] Speaker 1: weather dynasty. They don't exist. Marino never want to ring
[39:37] Speaker 1: because eventually you become a very warm weather offense. The
[39:44] Speaker 1: Chargers with Dan Fouts were electric, no trophy.
[39:49] Speaker 2: So this is a sneaky important thing. And this is
[39:57] Speaker 2: just random luck of the moment as far as who's good,
[40:01] Speaker 2: because you're exactly right that the AFC, all the excellent
[40:08] Speaker 2: teams are outdoor shitty weather yep. So like, and I
[40:14] Speaker 2: think that oddly likely works against the Houston Texans ability
[40:21] Speaker 2: to compete for championships in that they're not going unless
[40:25] Speaker 2: they get home field advantage throughout the playoffs. They're just
[40:28] Speaker 2: not going to be conditioned playing in the AFC South
[40:32] Speaker 2: and playing in a dome. The NFC is the opposite,
[40:36] Speaker 2: and it is such a unique potential edge Philadelphia has.
[40:42] Speaker 2: So if you're the Eagles, yep. And for the time
[40:47] Speaker 2: being now, maybe Washington will get great. They were really
[40:50] Speaker 2: good last year, and maybe the Giants will get great,
[40:53] Speaker 2: maybe the Bears will get great, maybe the Packers will
[40:56] Speaker 2: get great. So this all can change. But for the
[40:59] Speaker 2: time being, for the Eagles last few years, they have Detroit,
[41:05] Speaker 2: San Francisco, Dallas, whoever wins the South, Tampa. So they
[41:10] Speaker 2: are in a spot where if we can get home field,
[41:14] Speaker 2: whoever's coming here ain't built for this shit, right, So,
[41:19] Speaker 2: like the AFC, home field matters a little less for
[41:25] Speaker 2: the Chiefs, Bills, Ravens, Cincinnati because it's like, all right,
[41:28] Speaker 2: no matter what, this is gonna be a pain in
[41:31] Speaker 2: the ass, tough, like we're all we're all built our teams,
[41:34] Speaker 2: knowing that the NFC, it's just how it turned. Where
[41:39] Speaker 2: the Lions are in a dome and the Rams have
[41:42] Speaker 2: so that can change, but for the time being, it
[41:46] Speaker 2: makes it to wear. For Philadelphia specifically, home field advantage
[41:50] Speaker 2: is wildly valuable, wildly valuable.
[42:00] Speaker 1: And now it's time for power players. Brought to you
[42:02] Speaker 1: by bmw the Ultimate Driving Machine, and today's power player
[42:06] Speaker 1: is shay Gilgess Alexander, who gave an electric performance and
[42:10] Speaker 1: Oka sees beat down to the Nuggets SGA eleven of
[42:13] Speaker 1: thirteen from the field and eleven of eleven from the line,
[42:17] Speaker 1: leading the thunder with thirty four points and eight assists.
[42:21] Speaker 1: What is that that sets apart these power players from
[42:24] Speaker 1: the rest? Bottom line, it's their attention to detail, innovative
[42:26] Speaker 1: playing styles, and a relentless drive for performing at the
[42:30] Speaker 1: highest level. The same goes for bmwix. Everything you love
[42:34] Speaker 1: about the Ultimate Driving Machine electrify. So I want to
[42:39] Speaker 1: throw something out here. It's I want to go back
[42:43] Speaker 1: to the NBA and Draymond Green obviously part of the volume,
[42:47] Speaker 1: and you know, there's certainly an argument he's I think
[42:50] Speaker 1: he's the best defensive player ever. I mean his ability
[42:52] Speaker 1: to take Shengon out of games to give I mean
[42:55] Speaker 1: give to give Yannis massive problems. Now to give you
[42:59] Speaker 1: the great of Yokich. He just waves the white flag
[43:01] Speaker 1: on Jokich, just like I can't do anything either, Cad
[43:03] Speaker 1: Anthony Davis. By the way, Anthony would hold him to
[43:06] Speaker 1: twenty eight and Anthony was like, I played really good
[43:08] Speaker 1: and he did so, I mean Jokicch's I mean, Draymond
[43:12] Speaker 1: gives Jannis issues. He gives everybody issues. But one of
[43:15] Speaker 1: the brilliant things about Draymon, and I think it's purposeful
[43:20] Speaker 1: and intentional, he moves the line. So it's almost like,
[43:25] Speaker 1: if you're a parent, you don't want to yell at
[43:27] Speaker 1: your kids all the time. So the kid that's a
[43:32] Speaker 1: little inappropriate is constantly consciously or subconsciously testing his parents
[43:38] Speaker 1: what he can get away with, and at some time,
[43:41] Speaker 1: at some point, you as a parent will be harder
[43:44] Speaker 1: on the good natured, well behaved kid who infrequently makes
[43:49] Speaker 1: a mistake. Then the kid that's always in trouble. When
[43:52] Speaker 1: I watched Draymond play, Mike Breen pointed this out. Draymon
[43:57] Speaker 1: has moved a line that he did something the other
[44:00] Speaker 1: night where people on the air were defending him, and
[44:03] Speaker 1: I'm like, nobody would get away.
[44:09] Speaker 2: And so I've said this for a long time, So listen,
[44:12] Speaker 2: Draymond and I have a very complicationship is not even
[44:18] Speaker 2: the right word, but it's complicated because I am very
[44:22] Speaker 2: tight with a number of people who love Draymond Green,
[44:28] Speaker 2: who swear by Draymond Green, who and Draymond does not,
[44:35] Speaker 2: you know, have an affinity for me, and I have
[44:37] Speaker 2: been critical of him in the past, but everyone people
[44:41] Speaker 2: whose opinion I really trust and value say off the
[44:46] Speaker 2: court one of the best dudes ever. So it's a
[44:49] Speaker 2: weird dynamic there. Simultaneously, I have said that I thought
[44:54] Speaker 2: he should have won three straight Defensive Player of the
[44:56] Speaker 2: Year awards back when Kawhi won two of them, and
[45:00] Speaker 2: and I do think he is one of the most
[45:03] Speaker 2: brilliant defensive players of all time. And I'm on the
[45:06] Speaker 2: record that I thought he, not Clay, was the second
[45:10] Speaker 2: most important person of the pre KD Warriors totally here
[45:15] Speaker 2: is the other piece of it. There is no player
[45:21] Speaker 2: in NBA history who is given more leeway than and
[45:28] Speaker 2: this is an important qualifier Draymond Green after getting one technico.
[45:35] Speaker 2: Sometimes I think the Warriors are their most dangerous if
[45:41] Speaker 2: Draymond gets a technical early. And I know Draymond is
[45:48] Speaker 2: his most devastating defensively when he has five fouls, because
[45:54] Speaker 2: if Draymond gets to five fouls, he does not foul
[45:57] Speaker 2: out at six, he fouls out at nine, he gets
[46:00] Speaker 2: three more off damn it, like we're gonna let it go.
[46:05] Speaker 2: And Draymond with one technical can follow the ref up
[46:13] Speaker 2: and down the court doing anything, and a ref doesn't
[46:16] Speaker 2: want to throw him out. And so there is no
[46:20] Speaker 2: question that the guys the NBA refs do a I
[46:28] Speaker 2: think one of the things they need to do better
[46:30] Speaker 2: about is guys who never complain get a quick trigger
[46:37] Speaker 2: on text the one time they do, and guys who
[46:41] Speaker 2: always whine and yell and complain. The refs seem to
[46:46] Speaker 2: turn a deaf ear to with the it. Oddly, it
[46:55] Speaker 2: doesn't really feel like it applies to Luca because I
[46:58] Speaker 2: think Luca actually really irritates the refs because here's the
[47:03] Speaker 2: difference between Luca and Draymond. Draymond is complaining or yelling
[47:10] Speaker 2: about calls that go against him, Luca is yelling about
[47:17] Speaker 2: calls he does not get. And for some reason, right
[47:21] Speaker 2: I think refs are way more bothered by what Luca
[47:25] Speaker 2: does than what.
[47:26] Speaker 1: Luca is saying, you missed it. Ramond is arguing, I
[47:31] Speaker 1: appreciate it effort, but you want.
[47:33] Speaker 2: The wrong way to do it right exactly Raymond. Draymond
[47:37] Speaker 2: is saying I'm innocent. Luca is saying you're guilty, and
[47:42] Speaker 2: so the refs seem to hate Luca, and with Draymond,
[47:45] Speaker 2: they're like, ah, Draymond's being Draymond. But there's also it's
[47:49] Speaker 2: not just it's not just on text. I'm gonna tell like,
[47:53] Speaker 2: people can look up the game log and they will
[47:55] Speaker 2: see it. It's a really so Draymond right now has
[48:00] Speaker 2: two flagrant foul points, yes, four, and you're suspended that
[48:04] Speaker 2: happened him in twenty sixteen. You get one for a
[48:08] Speaker 2: flagrant one, you get two for a flagrant two. In
[48:12] Speaker 2: Warriors Rockets game seven, early on, Draymond got fouled and
[48:19] Speaker 2: then swiped his hand and hit I think it was Fred.
[48:23] Speaker 2: It was definitely it was Fred van Vliet, and the
[48:25] Speaker 2: refs went and reviewed it and they said foul on
[48:29] Speaker 2: Fred van Vliet and then dead ball technical on Draymond
[48:35] Speaker 2: for hitting him in the face, with the justification being
[48:38] Speaker 2: it can't be a flagrant because the play was over
[48:43] Speaker 2: technically over by a quarter of a second, so it's
[48:46] Speaker 2: a technical. The very next game played in the NBA,
[48:51] Speaker 2: Jokic got fouled by lou Dort and Jokic hit him
[48:58] Speaker 2: in the head, and the ref went and reviewed it
[49:01] Speaker 2: and they said foul on lou Dort, flagrant on Joker.
[49:05] Speaker 2: And I'm like, that is the exact thing that Draymond,
[49:08] Speaker 2: literally the exact thing, and it was a different rule interpretation,
[49:12] Speaker 2: and that was I know it in my bones because
[49:16] Speaker 2: the refs were aware. Oh shit, Draymond is a If
[49:20] Speaker 2: we give him this flagrant, then on his next flagrant,
[49:23] Speaker 2: which he is guaranteed to get at some point, he'll
[49:26] Speaker 2: be suspended for a game. So let's just give him
[49:29] Speaker 2: a technical. And so listen, if you can get away
[49:33] Speaker 2: with it, it's smart. He can get away with it.
[49:36] Speaker 2: And when Draymond, there was just a I should have
[49:39] Speaker 2: pulled it. There was an amazing graphic today one of
[49:44] Speaker 2: those little dot charts where it was players since the
[49:50] Speaker 2: two minute Report has existed, players who have benefited the most.
[49:56] Speaker 2: And it was like Mahomes one of the NFL quarter charts,
[50:00] Speaker 2: like where there's like a whole bunch of dots here
[50:04] Speaker 2: on this line, and then right here's Mahomes through five
[50:07] Speaker 2: years or whatever where he breaks the chart. It was
[50:10] Speaker 2: Draymond that not a by three standard deviations. No player
[50:17] Speaker 2: has had more calls where the two minute Report says, yeah,
[50:23] Speaker 2: that should have been a foul on them and we
[50:25] Speaker 2: missed it than Draymond. He so he he has mind
[50:30] Speaker 2: melded the refs into I'm such a great defender, I
[50:34] Speaker 2: probably didn't fall him and gets away with all of it.
[50:37] Speaker 2: And it's and I give him credit because it's the
[50:39] Speaker 2: only way to the only way a guy with his
[50:41] Speaker 2: shooting ability, his height, his limited athleticism could become a
[50:45] Speaker 2: first ballot Hall of Famer is playing this way. And
[50:48] Speaker 2: he did it. He's done it.
[50:50] Speaker 1: It's it's like the great salesman who's not great on
[50:52] Speaker 1: the details, and you know, like and after a while
[50:56] Speaker 1: is his boss. You're like, well, you know, it's he
[51:00] Speaker 1: is so good at this, I will acknowledge I will
[51:04] Speaker 1: eat that. And I think Draymond is so good and
[51:09] Speaker 1: is so respected for his defense that I think that's
[51:13] Speaker 1: just natural. I just think that's that's why we don't have.
[51:17] Speaker 1: You know, in baseball, you do need a robot behind
[51:20] Speaker 1: the plate. But in basketball, it's like I always say,
[51:24] Speaker 1: officiating basketball is officiating pass interference. In the NFL you
[51:29] Speaker 1: could call double yes. But here's the other thing. Have
[51:33] Speaker 1: I ever told you my Jerry Sloan story? So for
[51:35] Speaker 1: a year, you know how I love theories. So for
[51:38] Speaker 1: years I could never figure out why the Utah Jazz,
[51:44] Speaker 1: in that ten year Stockton Malone run, we're such an
[51:49] Speaker 1: average road team. I'm like, I mean, the Celtics now
[51:53] Speaker 1: are better on the road than at home. All great
[51:55] Speaker 1: teams are good on the road, excellent at home. The
[52:00] Speaker 1: Jazz were great at home and kind of five hundred
[52:04] Speaker 1: ish regularly on the road. I could never figure it out.
[52:07] Speaker 1: And then John Ireland, voice of the Lakers night, we're
[52:10] Speaker 1: talking one night and he goes, do you remember Jerry
[52:13] Speaker 1: Sloan as a player? And Sloan was like this inartistic bully.
[52:18] Speaker 1: He was a foul machine. He was a tough guy.
[52:20] Speaker 1: He and Bobby Jones. They were like in fights when
[52:23] Speaker 1: the NBA in the seventies would like allow it. You know,
[52:25] Speaker 1: it was just games weren't televised. The league was much rougher,
[52:31] Speaker 1: so officials who never want to call every foul, especially
[52:36] Speaker 1: in a raucous home environment, kind of gave the Jazz
[52:42] Speaker 1: a little bit of a home pass. They were the
[52:45] Speaker 1: most aggressive, handsy team. And then on the road it's
[52:50] Speaker 1: about six five or six different calls a game, especially late,
[52:54] Speaker 1: you're getting flagged for that. And that's just the way
[52:57] Speaker 1: officials are because the proc somebody of fans to floor
[53:01] Speaker 1: is so close. And so this Jazz team which was
[53:05] Speaker 1: so handsy, that was Jerry. That was, by the way, Stockton,
[53:08] Speaker 1: some says, the dirtiest player ever.
[53:10] Speaker 2: Dirtiest player ever.
[53:11] Speaker 1: Okay, Hornseeck was a grabber. Malone was always laid with
[53:15] Speaker 1: the elbows. Yeah, of course. So so they're the one
[53:19] Speaker 1: team where they would go on the road and about
[53:22] Speaker 1: six times a game they would get the other team
[53:24] Speaker 1: got into the bonus and I was like, oh, I
[53:27] Speaker 1: hate that. I couldn't figure that out. So there is
[53:30] Speaker 1: something to be said about there, and you're not mentioning
[53:34] Speaker 1: this Draymond gets even more latitude at home.
[53:39] Speaker 2: Oh yeah no, And it's what you can get away with,
[53:43] Speaker 2: is what you can get away with. And I just
[53:45] Speaker 2: the thing that I who was I talking about this? Oh?
[53:52] Speaker 2: This was a Shore Sanders take I had, but I'll
[53:55] Speaker 2: give it to you because it applies to Draymond kind
[53:57] Speaker 2: of loosely. But we go at wherever on the show.
[54:02] Speaker 2: So one of the greatest, in my opinion, one of
[54:08] Speaker 2: the greatest radio shows in America. And it has now
[54:11] Speaker 2: been on You'll be more impressed by this than anyone
[54:14] Speaker 2: for twenty three years. Running in the same market is
[54:20] Speaker 2: a show called The Church of Laslow and it's on.
[54:24] Speaker 2: It used to be on an alternative rock station. It's
[54:27] Speaker 2: now on a regular rock station. Doesn't matter, but their
[54:32] Speaker 2: frequency just changed. But it's been this dude, Laslow and
[54:35] Speaker 2: his buddy slim Fast. I was their sports guy for
[54:39] Speaker 2: years and Laslow, I'm gonna tell a real you know,
[54:42] Speaker 2: quick tangent. People like it. Laslow is to me. He
[54:46] Speaker 2: was one of my mentors in radio and just also
[54:48] Speaker 2: one of the coolest stories ever. He was from Detroit,
[54:55] Speaker 2: alcoholic drug addict, went to the Navy. I think got
[54:59] Speaker 2: kicked out of the Navy because of those two things
[55:01] Speaker 2: I just mentioned. I don't again, I might get his
[55:03] Speaker 2: story something wrong, kind of was always a mess, always
[55:07] Speaker 2: did radio and then got sober, started this state and
[55:12] Speaker 2: is like a wild liberal on the radio in Kansas City, Missouri,
[55:18] Speaker 2: where when he started his show every single day he
[55:22] Speaker 2: would start a show by saying, it has been X
[55:24] Speaker 2: amount of days since George W. Bush declared mission accomplished
[55:27] Speaker 2: in Iraq and then went on and he has. He's
[55:30] Speaker 2: on the air to this day because he's so talented,
[55:34] Speaker 2: and they're so I think it's the funniest show in America.
[55:37] Speaker 2: So say all that. So when I first started in radio,
[55:42] Speaker 2: they were down the hall. They had actually just come
[55:45] Speaker 2: back from Seattle where they used to be simulcast in
[55:48] Speaker 2: Seattle and Kansas City.
[55:50] Speaker 1: And.
[55:53] Speaker 2: Laslow said to me, He's like, listen man. And this
[55:56] Speaker 2: wasn't his original theory, but he was the first person
[55:58] Speaker 2: I had heard it from. I'm like twenty four. He's like,
[56:01] Speaker 2: you got to know what type of horse you are
[56:02] Speaker 2: for this company? Like what do you mean? He's like,
[56:06] Speaker 2: there's three horses in radio. He's like, there's the money horse,
[56:10] Speaker 2: there's the show horse, and there's the workhorse. He's like,
[56:15] Speaker 2: and you're gonna screw up if you don't know which
[56:18] Speaker 2: horse you are, Like, okay, He's like. The money horse
[56:22] Speaker 2: is the guy who's always going to have a job
[56:24] Speaker 2: because all the big clients love him. He's like the
[56:28] Speaker 2: car dealership's his buddy, and this guy and so he
[56:32] Speaker 2: does all the reads because they all love him. He's safe.
[56:35] Speaker 2: He's like. The show horse is the guy who they
[56:38] Speaker 2: want to be able to put on the billboard the
[56:40] Speaker 2: name we got. He's like, he's usually like someone who
[56:43] Speaker 2: does you know, a former athlete or does local TV,
[56:46] Speaker 2: and they feels like a celebrity. He's like, none of
[56:50] Speaker 2: the advertisers know who the hell you are and nobody
[56:54] Speaker 2: knows your name. He's like, that just leaves the workhorse.
[56:58] Speaker 2: He's like, and that's what it sounds like. You're gonna
[57:01] Speaker 2: keep your job because you're gonna work harder than everybody.
[57:05] Speaker 2: Do you need me to pick up that shift? I
[57:07] Speaker 2: can do this, I can do that. You're also gonna work,
[57:11] Speaker 2: You're gonna know everything, Like that's your path, man, And
[57:16] Speaker 2: honest to god, it's one of the most important conversations
[57:18] Speaker 2: I've ever had in my career because I was like, Okay,
[57:21] Speaker 2: that's who I'm gonna be. And he was telling me this,
[57:23] Speaker 2: He's like, you think you're the show horse. You think
[57:26] Speaker 2: like you're a big name. He's like, but you're not.
[57:29] Speaker 2: Maybe one day you will be, but you're not. And
[57:34] Speaker 2: that I was going to say this because Draymond recognized
[57:37] Speaker 2: early on, I'm the workhorse. I've got to do the
[57:39] Speaker 2: dirty work. I got to do all this. But the
[57:41] Speaker 2: more interesting part of it is the Shadoor thing, which
[57:45] Speaker 2: is Shador fell in the draft because he thought he
[57:49] Speaker 2: was a show horse and teams were looking at him
[57:53] Speaker 2: as are you a workhorse? And he thought, I'm Sudore Sanders,
[57:58] Speaker 2: I'm interviewing you. I've got all these people competing for
[58:01] Speaker 2: my services. And they looked at it as you're Shadoor Sanders.
[58:07] Speaker 2: Are you gonna pick up this mistake we put in
[58:10] Speaker 2: the film? Are you gonna know the playbook? Are you
[58:12] Speaker 2: gonna do this? And if you don't know the job
[58:15] Speaker 2: you're applying for, how do you nail the interview? And
[58:19] Speaker 2: so I think that is like a really it's a
[58:22] Speaker 2: really something I've just carried with me forever, like poignant
[58:26] Speaker 2: piece of advice which is it doesn't so much matter
[58:30] Speaker 2: how you view yourself. It matters in an employment setting.
[58:35] Speaker 2: It matters how your employer or potential employer views you
[58:40] Speaker 2: and are you representing that? Are you you know? And
[58:44] Speaker 2: so that I think was Shador's biggest mistake is he
[58:48] Speaker 2: didn't know what job he was interviewing for and he
[58:51] Speaker 2: didn't know who he was.
[58:52] Speaker 1: To these teams, well, and I'll throw something at you.
[58:56] Speaker 1: I one of the things why we didn't get an
[59:02] Speaker 1: honest read because clearly Pittsburgh never viewed him. They viewed
[59:06] Speaker 1: him as Kenny Pickett. Daniel Jeremiah said that when his
[59:10] Speaker 1: intel was that they viewed him is a little better
[59:13] Speaker 1: than Kenny Pickett as a prospect. Well, Kenny Pickett by
[59:17] Speaker 1: the two GMS, two of the gms in the league
[59:19] Speaker 1: that I really respect, one of them with a couple
[59:21] Speaker 1: of trophies, viewed Kenny Pickett as a top to middle
[59:24] Speaker 1: of the third quarterback. And that's exactly what he is.
[59:27] Speaker 1: He's a backup and an occasional starter if somebody gets hurt,
[59:30] Speaker 1: which is his role potentially in Cleveland. I don't think
[59:32] Speaker 1: he'll be there long, but that's his current role. So
[59:38] Speaker 1: the reason that Shadur didn't get an honest evaluation is
[59:43] Speaker 1: because Dion Sanders knows so many people in the NFL,
[59:46] Speaker 1: and he's worked at many broadcast companies, and nobody wanted
[59:49] Speaker 1: to be honest. This is what I've always said about bullies,
[59:52] Speaker 1: and Dion is not a bully. The downside to being
[59:56] Speaker 1: forceful and intimidating it in a bully is you actually
[59:59] Speaker 1: get lied to by everybody in your life because nobody
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: wants confrontation. People don't like it, your wife doesn't, your
[1:00:07] Speaker 1: kids don't. So the big brash bully, the top sales guy,
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: the egomaniac Bobby Knight in his prime, never got an
[1:00:17] Speaker 1: honest opinion because he intimidated people. So you're much better
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: having relationships where you ask questions. You don't always have
[1:00:27] Speaker 1: an opinion where people feel free to criticize you, and
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: that that will give you a more honest appraisal of
[1:00:35] Speaker 1: who you truly are and what you need to accomplish.
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: Bullies get lied to more than anybody. Although they think
[1:00:43] Speaker 1: they're always demanding and getting the truth, the exact opposite
[1:00:47] Speaker 1: is true. They have visions of they're deluded to a
[1:00:52] Speaker 1: degree because they're always being told yes, you're right and
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: absolutely and all. So the other group that never gets
[1:01:00] Speaker 1: an honest appraisal are superstars and celebrities. You know, nobody ever,
[1:01:06] Speaker 1: nobody ever told George Clooney in his prime, eh, you're
[1:01:11] Speaker 1: not really, it's not working for me on this because
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: he was so big you didn't want to piss him
[1:01:16] Speaker 1: and his his you know, it's like Leonardo DiCaprio in
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: his prime. Don't offend him. That won't go well. And
[1:01:23] Speaker 1: so being a superstar, Dion's like a superstar. I mean,
[1:01:27] Speaker 1: he's doing commercials with Nick Saban and he's a five
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: hundred coach in Colorado. That's all you need to know, right,
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: So so I think that's what hurt should do, is
[1:01:37] Speaker 1: nobody just came out and just said and and by
[1:01:40] Speaker 1: the way, arch Manning may get a little bit of
[1:01:44] Speaker 1: this too, is that people are nobody's going to come
[1:01:48] Speaker 1: out and say, I gotta be honest. He couldn't beat
[1:01:51] Speaker 1: out Quinn yours. There's a reason he's he's okay.
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: So I oh, well, that's well, that's a that's a
[1:01:59] Speaker 2: I've just assumed darch Manning is a guaranteed top five pick.
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: But I so but that, but I don't know as
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: Montreal college football as you, and I'm not gonna saying
[1:02:08] Speaker 2: that's what you're saying. Here's the other thing. The shitt
[1:02:10] Speaker 2: or thing revealed to me, and it's not that I
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: needed it revealed. I it was it shined a light
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: on we have traded as a sports public, true insiders
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: for instant transactional gratification. We we have valued who is
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: going to have this thing that was going to be
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: announced by the team in ninety minutes anyway, First over,
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: what is actual informational journalism?
[1:02:58] Speaker 1: Which is.
[1:03:00] Speaker 2: Somebody said this, and again I wish I could quote him,
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: but I can't. Journalism is publishing or uncovering information that
[1:03:09] Speaker 2: otherwise would not get out there. That's what it is,
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: Like I this story would remain hidden or fact or
[1:03:20] Speaker 2: whatever it is. Don Van Nada did a lot of that,
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: like Seth Wickersham. We know the people who've done it
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: in sports. Simply being the first to say this player
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: is signing with this team when that player signing with
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: that team was going to become public knowledge. No matter
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: what is a different I'm not saying it's not journalism,
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: it's a different thing. But that is the thing that
[1:03:49] Speaker 2: we in the general public seemingly value because that is
[1:03:53] Speaker 2: the thing that people get paid for and get famous
[1:03:56] Speaker 2: for as reporters. The only way to these days do
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: that job really well is to have everyone like you,
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: which is why in modern sports journalism, every draft pick
[1:04:16] Speaker 2: is great, every surgery is ahead of schedule, every MRI
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: was better than expected, and everything is pop positive. Every
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: single thing is positive. And so no the fact that
[1:04:33] Speaker 2: none of our insiders said, I've talked to fifteen teams
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: and twelve of them don't have Shador in their top
[1:04:47] Speaker 2: fifty like nobody had this, nobody had like it was.
[1:04:53] Speaker 2: It went from is he going to be the first pick?
[1:04:57] Speaker 2: To okay, it'll be cam Ward, but then you know
[1:05:03] Speaker 2: Shador Giants, Browns too, Oh shit, he might slide to
[1:05:08] Speaker 2: the Saints. And then by draft day it was wow,
[1:05:14] Speaker 2: what does it mean for Aaron Rodgers because Shador could
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: maybe be there at twenty one and they could draft him.
[1:05:21] Speaker 2: The entirety of the NFL world nobody had he He'll
[1:05:28] Speaker 2: be very fortunate if he is taken with the Browns
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: or Giants second pick. Not one person. And by the way,
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: I'm not I obviously didn't have it. I'm an acting like
[1:05:39] Speaker 2: I had it, but I'm on an insider, and so
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: I found that really telling that, man, what information are
[1:05:49] Speaker 2: we actually getting? Like, what is the real real and
[1:05:54] Speaker 2: are the guys who actually have the real information? Well,
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: I know the truth here, but it's not worth it
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: because it'll piss the wrong relationships, agents, teams, whatever off.
[1:06:09] Speaker 2: And so I also think that what is so stunning
[1:06:13] Speaker 2: about this and this last thing I'll say, because I
[1:06:14] Speaker 2: know now we're a month old on it, it is
[1:06:17] Speaker 2: shocking that Dion didn't have the information either, that nobody
[1:06:21] Speaker 2: privately told Dion.
[1:06:23] Speaker 1: That's right, that's the downside, like a bully of being
[1:06:26] Speaker 1: a beloved superstar.
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: Hey man, you're so like, listen, maybe they're all wrong,
[1:06:35] Speaker 2: but the league has real questions of whether or not at
[1:06:38] Speaker 2: your son's a starter. So you got to tell him
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: he's got to blow their socks off in this because
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: Dion is whatever anyone thinks of Dion, he's obviously a loving,
[1:06:50] Speaker 2: devoted father, that's undeniable. Yeah, and he just he got
[1:06:55] Speaker 2: he had didn't have the information, that's right.
[1:06:58] Speaker 1: Think about that. Think of how many friends he has
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: in the NFL, and not a single person I'm telling
[1:07:03] Speaker 1: you arch Manning be very careful. The Mannings are American
[1:07:09] Speaker 1: football royalty. Will now, I will say there's a little less.
[1:07:14] Speaker 1: They've got their own egos. But Dion's always been over
[1:07:16] Speaker 1: the top, you know, he's been He's going sure almost
[1:07:19] Speaker 1: at times a wrestling heel like he loves to, you know.
[1:07:23] Speaker 1: And the Mannings, you know, with Arch he's been backing
[1:07:26] Speaker 1: up quinn Ewers, who he's clearly better than. And they
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: never transferred they I mean, so they've handled it with grace,
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: and I think that's the Mannings brand. But I I this,
[1:07:36] Speaker 1: this really does go back to bullies and superstars. You'd
[1:07:40] Speaker 1: think they'd get the inside info. They're lied to more
[1:07:44] Speaker 1: than everybody else. You know who you don't lie to, Uh,
[1:07:48] Speaker 1: your cranky neighbor who you don't love, but you're gonna
[1:07:51] Speaker 1: tell him don't mow the grass at six o'clock on
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: a Saturday. You're gonna give him a real honest, cranky opinion.
[1:07:58] Speaker 1: The people that you don't have anything to lose, like,
[1:08:01] Speaker 1: just people that you don't adore. You're always willing to say, Bro,
[1:08:04] Speaker 1: that's not going to work, don't do that.
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: Correct.
[1:08:07] Speaker 1: That's hard to say to a Manning or a Dion Sanders.
[1:08:09] Speaker 1: It's hard. Yeah, that's right.
[1:08:12] Speaker 2: That's really interesting.
[1:08:14] Speaker 1: Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: them is the right thing to do. So, you know
[1:08:18] Speaker 1: Degree cool Rush deodorant right, Well, last year they changed
[1:08:21] Speaker 1: the formula and it did not go over well with
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: their fans. So Degrees the whole thing is it turns
[1:08:27] Speaker 1: up the sweat and odor protection when you turn up
[1:08:29] Speaker 1: the effort, and good thing it does. Because cool Rush
[1:08:32] Speaker 1: fans really turned up the effort to bring the original
[1:08:34] Speaker 1: formula back. One guy even started an online petition and
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: Degree listened. They admitted they ft up. They're bringing back
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: the original cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and
[1:08:42] Speaker 1: it's exactly how you remember it, cool, crisp and fresh.
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: It's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for
[1:08:48] Speaker 1: under four dollars. There's a reason that's been the number
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: one men's anti pursperant for the last decade. It's the
[1:08:52] Speaker 1: same reason why people were not happy when it changed.
[1:08:55] Speaker 1: So if you've never tried it, it might be a
[1:08:56] Speaker 1: good time to see what the fuss is about. Head
[1:08:58] Speaker 1: to your local Walmart, Target and try the og degree
[1:09:02] Speaker 1: cool Rush for yourself. You know, finally, you gotta bless
[1:09:08] Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboy fans heart. They're so excited for George Pickens.
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: And I was saying this today when Kyle Shanahan said,
[1:09:16] Speaker 1: I can't make Trey Lance work. I made Matt shab
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: a pro bowler, Brock Purdy, I got into a Super Bowl, Garoppolo,
[1:09:23] Speaker 1: I got to a Super Bowl. I can't make Trey
[1:09:25] Speaker 1: Lance work. And the Cowboys were like, ooh, here's a
[1:09:29] Speaker 1: fourth round pick. Okay. When Warren Buffett says, be careful
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: with bitcoin, I'm careful with bitcoin. When Mike Tomlin says
[1:09:41] Speaker 1: about a receiver, listen, I can't make it work, Chase Claypool,
[1:09:47] Speaker 1: Ab Martavius Bryan, I mean, the list goes, Downte Johnson,
[1:09:53] Speaker 1: Doonha Johnson, if Mike Tomlin, who is two things, great
[1:09:57] Speaker 1: motivator and incredibly patient with immature players. When Mike says, yeah, guys,
[1:10:05] Speaker 1: I'm out doubt. But Jerry, this is a personality trait.
[1:10:12] Speaker 1: Jerry loves to save. He loves to give people jobs
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: that need him. Chan Gaily, Mike McCarthy, Jason Garrett, Brian Schottenheimer.
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: They feel like Jerry Jerry is saving that he's giving
[1:10:28] Speaker 1: him job that's not available. McCarthy couldn't get interviews parcels,
[1:10:32] Speaker 1: and Jimmy Johnson didn't need him that war. Jimmy out
[1:10:37] Speaker 1: Dak Prescott fourth round. He loves hey Tony Romo undrafted.
[1:10:42] Speaker 1: Cowboys never draft quarterbacks in the first round. They don't
[1:10:45] Speaker 1: need Jerry. So when he goes and gets George Pickens,
[1:10:49] Speaker 1: who the reputation is out Basically Tomlin, I'm out, Jerry's like,
[1:10:56] Speaker 1: I'm here, I'll make it work. I think this is
[1:11:00] Speaker 1: Jerry's wildcatting oil days where he would hunt for gems,
[1:11:06] Speaker 1: and I think that is literally his mindset with coaches
[1:11:10] Speaker 1: and sometimes draft picks and players is that he feels
[1:11:15] Speaker 1: like Pickens, He's He's the rest.
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: Of the league is out.
[1:11:20] Speaker 1: I am in, and I don't think long term. I
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: think that's why the Cowboys are where the Cowboys are
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: currently in the NFL.
[1:11:29] Speaker 2: I think that George Pickens is one of the more
[1:11:33] Speaker 2: overrated players in the whole league. And the reason I
[1:11:36] Speaker 2: feel that way is because I think certain football fans
[1:11:41] Speaker 2: this is one of my This is one of my
[1:11:44] Speaker 2: favorite and kind of relatively newest take, which is talent
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: has become wildly overrated and particularly particularly in the NFL.
[1:12:00] Speaker 2: Obviously you need a requisite level of talent. That goes
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: without saying, however, this idea that talent is some cure
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: all when this guy has been a pain in the
[1:12:12] Speaker 2: ass every step of his football life. It is why
[1:12:17] Speaker 2: he fell on the draft. It is why you were
[1:12:20] Speaker 2: hearing rumors about him being available during his second year.
[1:12:24] Speaker 2: During his third year, he was traded here. It is
[1:12:27] Speaker 2: the he It's you know, when you are potentially trying
[1:12:33] Speaker 2: to get a contract in the offseason and your team
[1:12:37] Speaker 2: is in the middle of a losing streak, and you
[1:12:40] Speaker 2: show up to the Christmas Day game against the Kansas
[1:12:43] Speaker 2: City Chiefs ninety minutes before kickoff, you show up three
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: hours before your TV show Colin you have two hundred
[1:12:51] Speaker 2: and twenty of them a year. He's got seventeen football games,
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: and he like, you're just not a serious person and
[1:12:58] Speaker 2: you're not going to contribute to winning the way your
[1:13:03] Speaker 2: talent says you should. And so there's that. There is
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: also the fact that trading a third round pick for
[1:13:12] Speaker 2: a player with one year left on his contract means
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: you probably should give him a contract extension. The only
[1:13:22] Speaker 2: thing worse in my opinion than trading a third round
[1:13:26] Speaker 2: pick for one year of George Pickens than letting him
[1:13:29] Speaker 2: be a free agent is giving that guy fifty million guarantee.
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: So the Cowboys put themselves in a position where it's
[1:13:39] Speaker 2: no win. Do we pay this guy early when he
[1:13:43] Speaker 2: has never he's never been the top ten in the
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: NFL of anything. He's like, his career numbers are pedestrian.
[1:13:52] Speaker 2: He's never outpaced his production, has never outpaced his targets, right, and.
[1:13:59] Speaker 1: He quits routes, which quarterbacks just.
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: To routs and is a million gets unnecessary, a million
[1:14:05] Speaker 2: problems there. So you can't pay him. But the other
[1:14:10] Speaker 2: thing you shouldn't do is a smart franchise is keep
[1:14:14] Speaker 2: trading these mid round picks for rentals. And so I
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: two years ago, Colin the Chiefs ended up winning the
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: Super Bowl. But two years ago, when the Chiefs had
[1:14:26] Speaker 2: nothing but drops everywhere and the receivers couldn't do anything,
[1:14:30] Speaker 2: Pickens was available then, and Wilds and Bru couldn't believe me.
[1:14:34] Speaker 2: I was like, I don't want him. I was like,
[1:14:36] Speaker 2: the Chiefs already are on thin ice with Kadarius Tony,
[1:14:40] Speaker 2: like they you know, and they got they got the
[1:14:43] Speaker 2: Chiefs trade for Canarius Tony. They gave up a fifth
[1:14:46] Speaker 2: round pick, he had three years left on his deal,
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: and that's still Listen. He had the amazing partner turn
[1:14:52] Speaker 2: of the Super Bowl, but he's still ultimately got can't
[1:14:55] Speaker 2: get right. Guys can't get right, and so I I'm
[1:15:00] Speaker 2: not a Pickens guy. I also think he's a somewhat
[1:15:04] Speaker 2: overrated player. And I also think, for if Mike Tomlin
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: had a hard time keeping him inside the lines, Brian
[1:15:14] Speaker 2: Schottenheimer in his first year as a head coach, how
[1:15:17] Speaker 2: much of Brian Schottenneimer's time is going to be about
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: Mike's podcast and whatever the hell George Pickens did? A
[1:15:23] Speaker 2: lot of it?
[1:15:24] Speaker 1: Is they if a rehab centers like we're done.
[1:15:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, We're out of here exactly where it's insane.
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: Nick, Right, great hour, buddy, Great to see you.
[1:15:35] Speaker 2: Talk to you soon. Colin The.
[1:15:41] Speaker 1: Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
[1:15:45] Speaker 1: of sports. Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: of programming that goes beyond the game. Catch action packed
[1:15:51] Speaker 1: live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles, Only on
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