# Inside Buffalo Bills Hidden Drama: Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Chiefs Rivalry

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 22 Jan 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/65d2cbbc-5340-4569-840c-b3d90187b8ea/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin Cowherd is joined by Tyler Dunne from GoLongTD.com to discuss the drama and untold stories of the Buffalo Bills. They talk about why Brandon Beane & Terry Pegula threw Keon Coleman & Sean McDermott under the bus at the press conference. Why Sean McDermott was fired and why Brian Daboll might be the next Head Coach of the Buffalo Bills. Tyler shares why the infamous 13 second game vs Patrick Mahomes & Kansas City Chiefs broke the Bills and they still haven't recovered from that moment. How much input will Josh Allen have on the next coach. They also talk about why the Green Bay Packers extended Matt LaFleur & Brian Gutekunst. Lastly they hit why the Patriots rebuild under Mike Vrabel happened overnight and why Drake Maye is the next Tom Brady. Timeline: 3:00 - Bills drama 29:30 - Packers 38:30 - Patriots (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

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[1:20] Speaker 2: use my name at checkout fifteen percent off. Well, I
[1:27] Speaker 2: brought him on the herd. He won our first ever
[1:29] Speaker 2: Big Jay Journalism Award. I think we retired it after
[1:32] Speaker 2: he won it. We've never handed out a second. He
[1:35] Speaker 2: is the founder of Golong, one of the first guys
[1:37] Speaker 2: in sports to really jump over to substack and be
[1:39] Speaker 2: his own man. I love that about him and one
[1:42] Speaker 2: of the teams that he has really been really a
[1:46] Speaker 2: ground zero, a foundational reporter, and has pushedback on this
[1:51] Speaker 2: franchise many times. They have had a wild last four weeks.
[1:55] Speaker 2: You don't think of Buffalo and controversy. You think of
[1:58] Speaker 2: New York and controversy in Philadelphia and Boston. But Buffalo's just,
[2:03] Speaker 2: you know, it's quiet. It's upstate. So let's start with
[2:07] Speaker 2: the press conference today where Terry, the owner of Bagula,
[2:11] Speaker 2: basically calls out keon Coleman. I just kept thinking, man,
[2:18] Speaker 2: for a billionaire, that's not a ton of self awareness.
[2:21] Speaker 2: You were at the press conference. Basically he was defending
[2:24] Speaker 2: Billy Bean, who was sitting next to him. Wo's taking
[2:26] Speaker 2: a ton of criticism for his draft record, which is
[2:30] Speaker 2: not stellar. Okay, let's start with a press conference. Was
[2:35] Speaker 2: it awkward when Terry went off script to defend Billy Bean?
[2:39] Speaker 3: You know it was.
[2:41] Speaker 1: It was uncomfortable, It was awkward. It was something that
[2:45] Speaker 1: you never see in sports, right, Owners, general managers, head coaches.
[2:50] Speaker 1: They never bring you inside publicly like that and say no,
[2:54] Speaker 1: this person wanted that player, that person wanted that player.
[2:57] Speaker 1: I'll be honest, Colin. I loved the honesty. I love
[3:00] Speaker 1: the transparency. I'm not in PR. It probably isn't the
[3:05] Speaker 1: best PR move because that's pretty avoidable.
[3:08] Speaker 3: If you're the Buffalo Bills like you just don't need
[3:10] Speaker 3: to bring that up.
[3:11] Speaker 1: If if you want that information out there, there's people
[3:13] Speaker 1: like me you can tell off the record.
[3:16] Speaker 3: All these people in all sports know that.
[3:18] Speaker 1: But to me, what I kept thinking of is, all right,
[3:22] Speaker 1: the one person who has control over this is Keon Coleman.
[3:25] Speaker 1: The only reason he's being framed as a bust is
[3:29] Speaker 1: because he has been a bus.
[3:31] Speaker 3: Two years in.
[3:32] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's shown up late to meetings twice.
[3:35] Speaker 1: He's getting into Sean mcdermot's doghouse.
[3:37] Speaker 3: I will say this.
[3:38] Speaker 1: I was told it wasn't necessarily Sean McDermott who drafted
[3:42] Speaker 1: Keon Coleman.
[3:42] Speaker 3: It was coaches on the staff.
[3:44] Speaker 1: But yeah, Brandon Bean, it puts him in a tough
[3:47] Speaker 1: spot where he's sitting there like, all right, well, we're
[3:50] Speaker 1: going into year three with this guy.
[3:52] Speaker 3: We don't want to give up on this guy.
[3:53] Speaker 1: And he later for you know, made a point to say, look,
[3:56] Speaker 1: I drafted him, we all drafted him.
[3:58] Speaker 3: At that point, it's.
[3:59] Speaker 1: Kind of out there to me, you know what this
[4:00] Speaker 1: press conference was colin truth bombs left and right, and
[4:05] Speaker 1: the truth hurts for Keon Coleman. I'm sorry if feelings
[4:08] Speaker 1: are hurt more production Sean McDermott.
[4:12] Speaker 3: They praised him for his nine years of service.
[4:14] Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's been a decade
[4:17] Speaker 1: with arguably the best player in the league, and what
[4:19] Speaker 1: do you have to show for it?
[4:20] Speaker 3: To me, that was the biggest takeaway from this press conference.
[4:22] Speaker 1: At one point, Terry Pagoula is looking at all of
[4:25] Speaker 1: us and basically looking at the entire city at Buffalo,
[4:29] Speaker 1: say it is is seven years in a row of
[4:32] Speaker 1: making the playoffs?
[4:33] Speaker 3: Is that success? Is that success? And no super Bowl appearance?
[4:37] Speaker 1: He's basically asking everybody, if you want to get to
[4:40] Speaker 1: the playoffs and lose.
[4:42] Speaker 3: We've done that. Do we want to win a super Bowl?
[4:44] Speaker 3: Do we want something more? Then you gotta move on.
[4:48] Speaker 1: Look, I mean one stat I'll give you too is
[4:50] Speaker 1: I've been repeating it non stop. It go along, but
[4:54] Speaker 1: teams move on from head coaches at this point for
[4:57] Speaker 1: a reason.
[4:58] Speaker 3: You know he's entered in year ten.
[5:00] Speaker 1: There's only been three head coaches really two who have
[5:04] Speaker 1: won their first Super Bowl in year nine or beyond
[5:07] Speaker 1: with with that team, Bill Kauer, Tom Landry, Hank Stram,
[5:12] Speaker 1: and Hank Stram won an AFL title before that. So right,
[5:16] Speaker 1: you know the list of the Marty Schottenheimers and Marvin
[5:18] Speaker 1: Lewis's and Bart Stars and Wayne Fonx and Marv Levi's,
[5:22] Speaker 1: it's much much longer.
[5:24] Speaker 3: It was overdue if you ask me.
[5:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's there was a feeling in Buffalo and
[5:31] Speaker 2: I've said this with with Brandon and Bean I did
[5:35] Speaker 2: some sourcing on it. I called a couple of gms
[5:36] Speaker 2: I respect, I said, what do you what do you
[5:39] Speaker 2: know about him? Because I don't know him, nor do
[5:42] Speaker 2: I have any even a tech relationship. And they said,
[5:44] Speaker 2: he's really good with the cap. He's not necessarily known
[5:48] Speaker 2: as an elite John Snyder level, you know, like what
[5:51] Speaker 2: you would say personnel guy doesn't mean he can't do it.
[5:54] Speaker 2: For the record, it's really hard. Drafting is really hard
[5:59] Speaker 2: the best with I mean, you know the rams of
[6:02] Speaker 2: wift on second rounders the niners have. It's hard. So
[6:06] Speaker 2: there is no there's no exact science to guessing how
[6:09] Speaker 2: a twenty two year old will work, you know, I
[6:10] Speaker 2: mean keyon Coleman, Florida to Buffalo, just the weather alone,
[6:15] Speaker 2: you know, it's like, wow, that's a different a probably
[6:18] Speaker 2: never been to Buffalo before, right, like a lot of
[6:20] Speaker 2: these kids. But what is the sense Is it fair
[6:23] Speaker 2: to say since Josh Allen fifty five draft picks two
[6:29] Speaker 2: Pro bowlers, is it fair? Is that a fair criticism
[6:32] Speaker 2: that he has struggled in the draft, or do you
[6:34] Speaker 2: see personnel as he's been reasonably solid Like most gms
[6:40] Speaker 2: hit some misses.
[6:42] Speaker 1: You know what That's a great question because I think
[6:44] Speaker 1: everybody's asking that same exact question right now, because who's
[6:49] Speaker 1: that fault here? Right? Is it the head coach or
[6:51] Speaker 1: the GM for why this team, forget whinning a super.
[6:54] Speaker 3: Bowl, hasn't gotten to his Super Bowl? Right? No, no head.
[6:57] Speaker 1: Coach has won more playoff games with a Super Bowl
[7:00] Speaker 1: appearance than Sean McDermott eight. No quarterback has one more
[7:04] Speaker 1: playoff games without a super Bowl appearance than.
[7:06] Speaker 3: Josh Allen eight. So, like, who's at faultier?
[7:09] Speaker 1: People that I talked to around the league, they believe
[7:12] Speaker 1: this has been a championship roster year in a year out,
[7:16] Speaker 1: that they should have one in twenty twenty one thirteen seconds.
[7:19] Speaker 1: And we can get into that because I really do
[7:21] Speaker 1: believe that was the moment that probably broke the psychology
[7:25] Speaker 1: of the Buffalo Bills under Sean McDermott. And I mean,
[7:28] Speaker 1: you've got seasons other than that you can point to
[7:31] Speaker 1: and say that they had enough talent to win it all.
[7:34] Speaker 1: And I think, look, Brandon Bean was the driving force
[7:37] Speaker 1: behind the move up the draft board for Josh Allen,
[7:40] Speaker 1: So Terry Pogula remembers that, and then if you fast
[7:43] Speaker 1: forward this year, you've got the rating MVP, you've got
[7:46] Speaker 1: the NFL's leading rusher and James Cook.
[7:48] Speaker 3: You've got a top five offensive line and the defense.
[7:52] Speaker 1: Right, you've got a defensive minded head coach and Sean McDermott,
[7:55] Speaker 1: and you look at these playoff losses in the last
[7:58] Speaker 1: six playoff losses could really kind of point to that
[8:01] Speaker 1: as when the Bills have been legitimate Super Bowl contenders, right,
[8:04] Speaker 1: because they get the Jacksonville in twenty seventeen, they end
[8:07] Speaker 1: the drought twenty nineteen, Josh Allen's in a year two
[8:10] Speaker 1: they lost in the wildcard of the Texans in overtime,
[8:13] Speaker 1: blew at sixteen to nothing.
[8:14] Speaker 3: Leave that game.
[8:15] Speaker 1: But let's look at those six with a defensive minded
[8:17] Speaker 1: head coach Colin fifty two non kneel down drives in
[8:21] Speaker 1: those six games against what you've got three mahomes, one borrow,
[8:27] Speaker 1: one Bonnix, okay, fifty two nine kneel down drives. They've
[8:30] Speaker 1: allowed twenty five touchdowns, thirteen field goals, forced only twelve punts.
[8:34] Speaker 3: There's one missed field goal in there.
[8:36] Speaker 1: They've created three turnovers, allowing one hundred and ninety nine points.
[8:41] Speaker 1: That's three point eighty three points per drive. I believe
[8:44] Speaker 1: that's more than the two thousand and seven Patriots average
[8:47] Speaker 1: per drive with a defensive minded head coach.
[8:50] Speaker 3: So Brandon Bean's thinking, Okay.
[8:52] Speaker 1: It was defense again in the AFC Championship game last year, right,
[8:56] Speaker 1: Josh Allen did enough. The Bills offense did enough at Arrowhead,
[8:59] Speaker 1: and Chief's offense that was average to above average the
[9:03] Speaker 1: last season and a half hung thirty two on you.
[9:07] Speaker 1: So he goes out and signs Bosa, Lario, Goojobi, Michael
[9:10] Speaker 1: Hoyt and drafts five defensive players in a row, like,
[9:13] Speaker 1: here's more options for you, Sean McDermott. Let's get a stop, right,
[9:16] Speaker 1: Let's let's get one stop. You get to Denver. Yes,
[9:20] Speaker 1: Joshawn had four turnovers. The crazy play at the end
[9:22] Speaker 1: of the half and he's hit for the blind side,
[9:25] Speaker 1: but yes, he had four turnovers. Even then, they almost
[9:28] Speaker 1: became the second road playoff team ever to overcome a
[9:31] Speaker 1: minus three tourner over differential to win.
[9:34] Speaker 3: I think it was one.
[9:35] Speaker 1: They were one in eighty five going into this game
[9:37] Speaker 1: because of Allen, because of the offense, and then two
[9:40] Speaker 1: minutes left, third and eleven, it looks like Shawn's gonna
[9:42] Speaker 1: send the Dogs seven at the line of scrimmage. Here's
[9:45] Speaker 1: the moment he's finally gonna be aggressive and three of
[9:48] Speaker 1: a back off, Bonick hits Courtland Sutton for a first down.
[9:51] Speaker 1: Four plays later, Trenevius White gets hurt. He's out. Sean
[9:55] Speaker 1: Payton smells blood. Dan Jackson ice cold out the sideline.
[9:58] Speaker 1: You leave him one out, one on the outside. What
[10:02] Speaker 1: do you think Sean Payton's gonna do. He did the
[10:04] Speaker 1: same thing earlier in the game when Cam Lewis the
[10:06] Speaker 1: safety got hurt and Darnault Savage.
[10:09] Speaker 3: Your fifth or six safeties on the field.
[10:11] Speaker 1: A bust from Green Bay shouldn't be in that spot,
[10:13] Speaker 1: but Peyton saw it and he took advantage. So Sean
[10:16] Speaker 1: McDermott failed to learn his lesson in the game. Look,
[10:18] Speaker 1: if you've got a defensive mind, a head coach, these
[10:20] Speaker 1: are the little.
[10:21] Speaker 3: Things you got to do. Yeah, And I think that Terry.
[10:24] Speaker 1: Pagoula is looking at these moments, and he's looking at
[10:28] Speaker 1: the eyes of his players in the locker room. He
[10:30] Speaker 1: talked about this today and he sees how despondent, how
[10:34] Speaker 1: teary eyed. Josh Allen Is, Dion Dawkins, everybody. He's saying, Man,
[10:38] Speaker 1: we can't keep doing this year to year like this
[10:41] Speaker 1: team has planned to.
[10:42] Speaker 3: We got to do something.
[10:43] Speaker 1: And I get the debate, but he decided that it
[10:46] Speaker 1: was Sean mcdermot's fault, not Brandon Bean.
[10:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I think I think, you know,
[10:53] Speaker 2: here's where I'll defend Brandon Bean. I think they're offensive
[10:57] Speaker 2: personnels pretty good. They have an excellent slot receiver, maybe
[11:00] Speaker 2: not lad McConkey, but darn good star back, star left tackle,
[11:04] Speaker 2: great running back, O line, more than solid, multiple tight
[11:08] Speaker 2: ends Dawson Knox obviously, Dalton kincaid so and Keyon Coleman.
[11:14] Speaker 2: I didn't have a problem with a draft pick because
[11:16] Speaker 2: I saw him in college and I thought he was
[11:17] Speaker 2: rangy and tall. Receivers Number one last twenty years, number
[11:22] Speaker 2: one position, first round bust is wide receiver. He's not
[11:25] Speaker 2: the first Belichick couldn't draft one in the first round.
[11:27] Speaker 2: Chad Jackson, Nikhil Harry, Nikhil Henry from Arizona State couldn't
[11:32] Speaker 2: draft one to save his life. So by the way,
[11:34] Speaker 2: Andy Reid, Brute, Brett Veach, great great guys, Sky Moore,
[11:41] Speaker 2: Miss Rashee, Rice always in trouble Xavier Worthy bottom first. Yah,
[11:46] Speaker 2: So like I do think Brandon Bean deserves credit for
[11:50] Speaker 2: They've done a pretty damn good job on offense, a
[11:52] Speaker 2: pretty good group, and I think an offensive coach like
[11:55] Speaker 2: Brian Dabol would squeeze even more juice out of that group.
[11:59] Speaker 2: So let's pivot to that. Is Dable the front runner.
[12:03] Speaker 1: He'll definitely be in the conversation, And I love this.
[12:06] Speaker 1: I love talking Brian Dable because it is fascinating. He
[12:10] Speaker 1: was like a father figure for Josh Allen here. They
[12:12] Speaker 1: were unbelievably close.
[12:14] Speaker 3: When I did that. You were all over this.
[12:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, we probably talked about it on the Herd then, right,
[12:20] Speaker 1: I mean we're all The nine to eleven speech that
[12:23] Speaker 1: mcdermoty that gave that gate got a lot of headlines,
[12:25] Speaker 1: but really I thought one of the more fascinating nuggets
[12:28] Speaker 1: was in part three of that series where I had
[12:30] Speaker 1: heard from veterans on that team and coaches who repeated
[12:34] Speaker 1: just how close Josh Allen was to Brian Dable on
[12:38] Speaker 1: the field.
[12:39] Speaker 3: You know Josh Alleny's He's a.
[12:41] Speaker 1: Farm boy from Fireball California, right, and no star recruit
[12:46] Speaker 1: had to earn everything. He He's okay with a coach
[12:50] Speaker 1: yelling in his yar hole like Brian Dable would. I
[12:52] Speaker 1: could picture him on the sideline after an interception in
[12:54] Speaker 1: year two against the Patriots, stables losing his mind.
[12:57] Speaker 3: Alan took the hard coaching did something with it.
[13:00] Speaker 1: Dabele had such an effect on him as a young player,
[13:03] Speaker 1: but he got off the field. I mean they were
[13:05] Speaker 1: hanging out all the time. It was a special relationship.
[13:07] Speaker 1: So there was one player and I asked, this is
[13:11] Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, like at that point, Dable's with the
[13:14] Speaker 1: New York Giants, obviously, like, did the Bills keep the
[13:17] Speaker 1: right coach? And he paused for quite literally thirteen seconds,
[13:22] Speaker 1: ironically enough, and she goes, does that answer your question?
[13:26] Speaker 1: I mean there's people who think that the Bills could
[13:28] Speaker 1: have multiple Super Bowls right now if Dabele and Allen
[13:31] Speaker 1: stayed together.
[13:32] Speaker 3: And look, josh Adlen is.
[13:33] Speaker 1: Gonna be in these interviews with the head coaches and
[13:36] Speaker 1: not Dable. I actually caught up with a coach who
[13:39] Speaker 1: might be in the running for this job recently, and
[13:42] Speaker 1: he you know, we'll see if he's he's.
[13:45] Speaker 3: Of interest too.
[13:45] Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of people that want this
[13:47] Speaker 1: job when it comes to Dable, though all signs would
[13:51] Speaker 1: point to him be in the front runner for all
[13:52] Speaker 1: those reasons. But I also think of this Colin Bran
[13:56] Speaker 1: Brandon Bean is tight with Joe Shang. Joe Shang was
[13:58] Speaker 1: here in Buffalo, and Joe Shane knows firsthand what went
[14:03] Speaker 1: down with the Giants, right, he probably knows all the
[14:05] Speaker 1: good that comes with Dable and maybe some of the
[14:07] Speaker 1: disorganization behind the scenes that came with Dable.
[14:10] Speaker 3: You can learn from that stuff, Like I love.
[14:12] Speaker 1: It when teams give a give a head coach a
[14:14] Speaker 1: second chance, like you should be able to learn from
[14:16] Speaker 1: what went wrong.
[14:17] Speaker 3: So he absolutely could.
[14:20] Speaker 1: That's what being has to kind of parse through and
[14:23] Speaker 1: figure out, like what went wrong and would he do
[14:26] Speaker 1: better the second time around, Because being an NFL head coach,
[14:30] Speaker 1: it's more than just coaching quarterbacks and having a relationship
[14:34] Speaker 1: with Josh Hell, which is unbelievably important. There's game management
[14:37] Speaker 1: stuff which Dable struggled with with the Giants. Obviously, interpersonal
[14:41] Speaker 1: relationships behind the scenes, right he famously classed with Wing Martindale.
[14:44] Speaker 1: So I think that's the kind of stuff that probably
[14:46] Speaker 1: they're gonna ask Brian Dable in this interview when they
[14:48] Speaker 1: have him been.
[14:50] Speaker 2: You know, I've defended Brian Dable because coaching in New
[14:54] Speaker 2: York is hard. Coaching in New York having to take
[14:59] Speaker 2: Dave Gettleman, Daniel Jones and win is hard. The New
[15:04] Speaker 2: York media is multifaceted, multi personality, very uber competitive. And
[15:10] Speaker 2: I said to Day on the Herd, I said, you know,
[15:12] Speaker 2: Buffalo is different. I mean, you have real pros in
[15:15] Speaker 2: the media. I'm not disparaging anybody now, a lot of
[15:18] Speaker 2: good radio TV people up there. Buffalo's always played bigger
[15:21] Speaker 2: than it is as a market. Always reminds me. I
[15:24] Speaker 2: don't know why I think of this as Salt Lake
[15:25] Speaker 2: City media. Buffalo media feel much bigger than they are.
[15:28] Speaker 2: A lot of pros. People just want to live in
[15:30] Speaker 2: Salt Lake City and ski, and people love living in
[15:32] Speaker 2: Buffalo because it's a wonderful place to live. But I
[15:40] Speaker 2: I guess when I look at Brian Dable, who's succeeded
[15:48] Speaker 2: in New York, even Conflin at the end struggled. Whereas
[15:52] Speaker 2: I really like the ownership of Buffalo, I think Brandon
[15:56] Speaker 2: Bean realizes a lot of people have the microscope on
[16:01] Speaker 2: him now, and so the Buffalo media and I really
[16:07] Speaker 2: respected this has been hard on Bean, and tomorrow's columns
[16:14] Speaker 2: on this press conference will be intense. What is the
[16:20] Speaker 2: relationship Pagoula Bean fans media today? Because usually when you
[16:26] Speaker 2: get to market the size of Buffalo or Baltimore, the
[16:29] Speaker 2: media is not antagonistic, But it does feel like Baltimore
[16:34] Speaker 2: Buffalo's media feels almost a responsibility. They know they're in
[16:38] Speaker 2: the national spotlight and they've sharpened the saw. It feels
[16:43] Speaker 2: like I mean Bean's radio appearance, I think on WGR,
[16:47] Speaker 2: I read the columns. I mean, is it as tense
[16:50] Speaker 2: as it sounds?
[16:52] Speaker 1: It was tense today, Colin, There's no way around it.
[16:56] Speaker 1: They asked I was there. I wasn't able to get
[16:59] Speaker 1: a question. It was hard to get a question in
[17:02] Speaker 1: because it was an opportunity to ask about the firing
[17:06] Speaker 1: of head coach, which hasn't happened here in Western New
[17:09] Speaker 1: York in nearly a decade. They've been winning division titles.
[17:14] Speaker 1: Sean McDermott cleaned up the Rex Ryan mess, and it
[17:17] Speaker 1: was a mess. It was worse than you can imagine.
[17:20] Speaker 1: And he deserves all the credit for that.
[17:22] Speaker 3: I mean, I think he he's a free agent head
[17:24] Speaker 3: coach right now.
[17:25] Speaker 1: If you wanted to clean up the Cleveland Browns or
[17:27] Speaker 1: a team like that, he could do it like that.
[17:30] Speaker 1: That's what Sean McDermott does really well. But yeah, to
[17:33] Speaker 1: answer your question, people were ready to ask Brandon be
[17:37] Speaker 1: some hard questions. I think it's interesting, you know, Sean
[17:40] Speaker 1: McDermott really did ingratiate himself to the community this past
[17:45] Speaker 1: year in a way that he hasn't most of his tenure.
[17:49] Speaker 1: He has been a little stand offish, not doing much
[17:52] Speaker 1: media beyond press conferences, kind of you know, a little colder,
[17:56] Speaker 1: a little more aloof and just didn't I didn't want
[18:00] Speaker 1: to play that game really And then recently, even after
[18:03] Speaker 1: I did that series, I was welcome back in the building.
[18:05] Speaker 1: I sat down with Sean at the combine, we talked
[18:07] Speaker 1: about it, got a credential. Next thing, I know, into
[18:10] Speaker 1: the playoffs in twenty twenty four, I'm in his office.
[18:12] Speaker 3: We're talking for an hour about his evolution as a coach.
[18:15] Speaker 1: I mean, he definitely made a concerted effort to get
[18:18] Speaker 1: his personality out there. Dan Pompey at The Athletic and
[18:22] Speaker 1: excellent profile on Sean McDermott recently. I think through all
[18:26] Speaker 1: of that you know, there's a story in the Buffalo
[18:28] Speaker 1: News where ahead of the last game at high Mark Stadium,
[18:32] Speaker 1: he's like looking around the field and taking it all in.
[18:34] Speaker 1: And the community kind of felt an attachment to Sean McDermott. Really,
[18:39] Speaker 1: I mean you can see it, you can feel it.
[18:42] Speaker 1: Of the same fans who are pissed at this team
[18:44] Speaker 1: loses every January, they felt a bond to him, and
[18:48] Speaker 1: I think the majority of fans, at least this season
[18:51] Speaker 1: kind of pinned a lot of the problems on the
[18:53] Speaker 1: GM and the wide receiver position, and it has kind
[18:55] Speaker 1: of rooted in that WGR interview that Brandon Bean did
[19:00] Speaker 1: so in a roundabout way, Yeah, like fansy, they didn't
[19:03] Speaker 1: think that a lot of fans, I don't know what
[19:05] Speaker 1: the percentage would be didn't think that Sean McDermott should
[19:08] Speaker 1: have been fired. So when this goes down, I think
[19:11] Speaker 1: a lot of folks were surprised and wanted answers, and
[19:17] Speaker 1: the media sought those answers. But here's where I here's
[19:20] Speaker 1: where I think though. This isn't to blame local media,
[19:23] Speaker 1: blame fans, and just the theme that I keep coming
[19:26] Speaker 1: back to Colin is let's not lose the plot here everyone, Right,
[19:30] Speaker 1: I gave you that stat earlier on this gust team
[19:34] Speaker 1: move on at this point and that game, that thirteen
[19:38] Speaker 1: seconds game at Arrowhead. I've been told repeatedly again on
[19:42] Speaker 1: Monday when I reached out to people around the team
[19:46] Speaker 1: around the relationship of McDermott.
[19:48] Speaker 3: And being that that moment had a lot of that
[19:51] Speaker 3: did a lot of damage. Right.
[19:53] Speaker 1: I think Richard Sherman would tell you the exact same
[19:55] Speaker 1: thing about the legion of Boom Seahawks when Pete Carroll
[19:58] Speaker 1: decided to throw the ball to one yard line. That
[20:00] Speaker 1: moment kind of broke those Seahawks twenty eight to three,
[20:04] Speaker 1: broke the Atlanta Falcons, thirteen seconds, broke the psychology of
[20:08] Speaker 1: the Bills.
[20:09] Speaker 3: And here's why reported all of it. And it's funny.
[20:12] Speaker 1: I mean, to my knowledge, Sean mcderm has been peppered
[20:15] Speaker 1: with these thirteen second questions. But I've reached out to coaches,
[20:19] Speaker 1: I've reached out to players. He overruled the special teams
[20:24] Speaker 1: coordinator Heath Farewell, who wanted his squipkick. McDermott said, touchback.
[20:31] Speaker 1: That allows for those two plays to happen over the
[20:33] Speaker 1: full thirteen seconds and what happens before those plays.
[20:37] Speaker 3: He calls a timeout.
[20:38] Speaker 1: They call it kodak, a chance to kind of see
[20:41] Speaker 1: what the Chiefs are doing and line up accordingly.
[20:44] Speaker 3: The dbs are.
[20:45] Speaker 1: In another zip code. It's easy work for mahomes. In
[20:50] Speaker 1: that moment, McDermott I was told overruled Leslie Fraser's defensive coordinator.
[20:54] Speaker 3: He's doing the defensive play calling.
[20:56] Speaker 1: They give up the field goal, they get into overtime,
[20:58] Speaker 1: they get rolled over, they get said the locker room,
[21:00] Speaker 1: and I had a coach tell me that. Even in
[21:02] Speaker 1: that moment, Sean McDermott said something like why.
[21:05] Speaker 3: The offense left too much time on the field, like
[21:07] Speaker 3: what thirteen seconds? And then the next day is.
[21:11] Speaker 1: Kind of looking at his assistant coaches and saying, you
[21:14] Speaker 1: guys need to figure out what went wrong here.
[21:16] Speaker 3: You need to figure it out. And that was it
[21:18] Speaker 3: into the offseason.
[21:19] Speaker 1: So not only does this like really traumatic by football
[21:23] Speaker 1: standards moment happen, there's really no ownership, there's really no
[21:27] Speaker 1: accountability in that moment, and it really did linger into
[21:33] Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty three, twenty four to the point where
[21:36] Speaker 1: people in all departments are saying, like that has kind
[21:38] Speaker 1: of been a dark cloud over this team to where.
[21:41] Speaker 3: And look the time.
[21:42] Speaker 1: It's kind of always been awkward if Terry pagool and
[21:44] Speaker 1: the Bills wanted the fire McDermott, because in twenty twenty two,
[21:47] Speaker 1: Sean McDermott probably is his best coaching job ever. A
[21:50] Speaker 1: player nearly dies on a football field tomorrow Hamblin comes
[21:53] Speaker 1: back to life, and you've got to somehow get your
[21:55] Speaker 1: team ready to play a football game the following week.
[21:58] Speaker 3: Unbelievable job by McDermott.
[22:00] Speaker 1: Yes, they get smashed by the Bengals in the playoffs,
[22:02] Speaker 1: but it's not like Pagoula is going to fire him
[22:04] Speaker 1: after all that. Twenty twenty three, I write that three
[22:06] Speaker 1: part series when they're six and six, they win six
[22:09] Speaker 1: games in a row. They're a missed field go away
[22:11] Speaker 1: from getting to the AMC Championship game. It can't really
[22:14] Speaker 1: fire him after that. And then twenty twenty four, you're
[22:16] Speaker 1: in the AFC Championship game that fourth and five prayer
[22:19] Speaker 1: from Allen, you know, he escapes all that rush, gets
[22:22] Speaker 1: into dalton Y KD just misses it. They don't fire
[22:26] Speaker 1: him after that, when in retrospect, maybe you should have
[22:29] Speaker 1: Vrabel Ben Johnson the and Cohen are available, but in
[22:32] Speaker 1: a round about way, I'm just stand.
[22:33] Speaker 3: Look, I think that that can't has kind of.
[22:35] Speaker 1: Hovered over the team in a way that isn't isn't
[22:37] Speaker 1: really understood by the fans, the majority of the fans
[22:41] Speaker 1: who I feel this connection with Sean McDermott internally.
[22:45] Speaker 3: I'm telling you it's real.
[22:47] Speaker 1: And if the Bills could do it all over again,
[22:50] Speaker 1: I think they would think long and hard about doing
[22:53] Speaker 1: the Doug Collins to Phil Jackson. Think at that point
[22:55] Speaker 1: right where David it would have been hard to the
[22:59] Speaker 1: Bill were still on the rise.
[23:01] Speaker 3: But if you could rewrite history, I mean.
[23:03] Speaker 1: That would have been a moment to move on to
[23:05] Speaker 1: a new coach, write then upgrade while you're on the rise.
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[25:04] Speaker 2: We've covered a lot of ground with Buffalo. I can't
[25:09] Speaker 2: bring you on and not talk packers because that's when
[25:12] Speaker 2: we were first introduced to you. You pick really fascinating franchises.
[25:17] Speaker 2: So I defended Matt Lafleur and Brian Gooden Kountz, but
[25:21] Speaker 2: mostly Matt Lafleur because he's won sixty six percent of
[25:24] Speaker 2: his games. I also think the NFC over the last
[25:28] Speaker 2: two to three years has really improved. It's superior to
[25:32] Speaker 2: the AFC. And I also think Aaron Rodgers at the
[25:34] Speaker 2: end was difficult. He had one or two really Aaron
[25:39] Speaker 2: was really happy to see him. McCarthy and Aaron had
[25:42] Speaker 2: regressed as a relationship clearly eroded. He put his arms
[25:46] Speaker 2: around the young, good looking guy, just like Aaron. Generationally
[25:49] Speaker 2: they were in line kind of good looking, young, you know,
[25:52] Speaker 2: successful guys. But at the end, I think we know
[25:56] Speaker 2: that Aaron aged pretty quickly, like unlike Brady, he was
[26:00] Speaker 2: not obsessed in the off season. You know, He's took
[26:01] Speaker 2: his off seasons to do his thing, and Aaron's age
[26:04] Speaker 2: more quickly, so he didn't get really great. Aaron for
[26:08] Speaker 2: quite the runway we thought then Jordan Love, I thought
[26:12] Speaker 2: he did a tremendous job with him and Malik Willis
[26:15] Speaker 2: in multiple opportunities. When I mean they got him into
[26:18] Speaker 2: camp late and a month later he's playing and they're winning.
[26:22] Speaker 2: So I just think he's a winning coach. I think
[26:25] Speaker 2: it's the NFC's gotten better his division. You know, Detroit
[26:29] Speaker 2: arguably best roster, Kevin O'Connell one of the sharpest guys
[26:32] Speaker 2: in the league, and now the Bears have Ben and Caleb.
[26:35] Speaker 2: It's a really tough division with a lot of smart
[26:38] Speaker 2: guys in it. So but but do you think when
[26:41] Speaker 2: the stories came out and I tended when I see
[26:45] Speaker 2: a story proclaiming a big possible change, Okay, who wrote it?
[26:51] Speaker 2: Did you do you believe they sat down in that
[26:53] Speaker 2: organization forty eight hours and thought about moving off Matt Lafleur.
[27:00] Speaker 3: It had to have been a thought.
[27:02] Speaker 1: If you're at policy, you know this is your opportunity
[27:05] Speaker 1: to put your imprint on this team. I mean, he's
[27:08] Speaker 1: the CEO, he's the president. We know the fans owned
[27:11] Speaker 1: the team, but he's the one in charge. It's kind
[27:13] Speaker 1: of a perfect situation when you when you take over
[27:16] Speaker 1: a team where you've got a head coach in a
[27:18] Speaker 1: GM entering the final year of their deal. So you
[27:22] Speaker 1: decide right then, either you give them the extensions or
[27:24] Speaker 1: you move off them.
[27:25] Speaker 3: I mean, they didn't want to be lame ducks. Nobody
[27:27] Speaker 3: wants that situation. So I think it was probably a thought.
[27:30] Speaker 1: How could it not be after that choke job at
[27:33] Speaker 1: Soldier Field, And it wasn't. It wasn't the first and
[27:37] Speaker 1: to be up, but it could it could have been
[27:39] Speaker 1: twenty four to three at half with the field goal
[27:41] Speaker 1: hell Jordan Love almost hitting Christian Watson on a touchdown,
[27:44] Speaker 1: it could have been twenty eight to three out of
[27:45] Speaker 1: a half, and that's kind of a forgotten play. But yes,
[27:48] Speaker 1: it's twenty one to three to have those four to
[27:51] Speaker 1: three and outs, to have no answers as an offensive coach,
[27:55] Speaker 1: and you could just you could.
[27:56] Speaker 3: Just feel it, you know.
[27:58] Speaker 1: Especially it was interesting Collins in a week around the
[28:00] Speaker 1: New England Patriots out of that game and hearing from
[28:04] Speaker 1: Mike Vrabel and these players and how they strained through
[28:08] Speaker 1: the play, how they worked through the play, the longevityabily,
[28:11] Speaker 1: never quit, the relentless, and that is just created by
[28:15] Speaker 1: Mike Vrabel as far back as the spring. It is
[28:18] Speaker 1: very culture driven. When he's telling guys, pick up your
[28:23] Speaker 1: dirty wash clause in the shower. He instructed the equipment
[28:26] Speaker 1: staff if you see dirty wash cloths on the shower floor,
[28:29] Speaker 1: just wring them.
[28:30] Speaker 3: Out and don't wash them like little things like that.
[28:33] Speaker 1: All the way to the defense, he installs x's and
[28:36] Speaker 1: odes wise has a purpose and then to hear Matt
[28:39] Speaker 1: Laflour talk about how they need to strain through the play,
[28:42] Speaker 1: The play more after the latest collapse. I don't know,
[28:45] Speaker 1: man like that speaks to the DNA of a team.
[28:49] Speaker 3: He's been there a while.
[28:51] Speaker 1: There's been a lot of late game collapses, not all
[28:54] Speaker 1: the way back to Aaron Rodgers.
[28:56] Speaker 2: So let me throw something at you. When he was hired,
[29:01] Speaker 2: I was told, I've said this on the air when mcveay,
[29:04] Speaker 2: Shanahan and Matt Lafleur were together. McVeigh was the culture guy.
[29:10] Speaker 2: Shanahan was the scheme guy. Lafleur was the nice guy
[29:14] Speaker 2: when he was in When he was in Tennessee and
[29:19] Speaker 2: went to Green Bay, I was told by somebody that
[29:23] Speaker 2: was very close to the situation that he didn't think
[29:27] Speaker 2: he was necessarily a great culture guy. He thought he
[29:31] Speaker 2: was a good guy, a smart guy, knew as shit,
[29:35] Speaker 2: but again not necessarily didn't know if he could build
[29:39] Speaker 2: his tough, relentless culture. I've said this about Lincoln Riley.
[29:43] Speaker 2: I know he's smart. USC leads the nation in offense regularly.
[29:48] Speaker 2: I know he knows his side of the ball. I
[29:50] Speaker 2: know he's smart. I've compared Lincoln Riley and Matt Lafleur.
[29:54] Speaker 2: I know they're good, and I know they're smart, and
[29:57] Speaker 2: they know quarterbacks on offense. I don't know there's a
[30:00] Speaker 2: great culture creator. Ben Johnson did it in a six weeks.
[30:06] Speaker 2: I mean they were a better football team in six weeks.
[30:10] Speaker 2: They literally eliminated negative plays in sacks. In the first
[30:14] Speaker 2: two weeks, they weren't gone out of the program. So
[30:17] Speaker 2: my thing is, when I watched Dan Campbell's culture bite
[30:20] Speaker 2: knee caps, top physical, I can see it. Vrabel clean
[30:25] Speaker 2: it up, no penalties top, I can see it. Ben
[30:29] Speaker 2: Johnson with Caleb in the offense, I can see it.
[30:33] Speaker 2: I can't with the floor. I see smart. I said,
[30:35] Speaker 2: good with quarterbacks. I see, you know, good guy, liked
[30:42] Speaker 2: by a lot of people. I don't see a great culture.
[30:46] Speaker 2: Is it fair for me to say that?
[30:49] Speaker 1: I agree percent And I'm not just blowing smoke Coulin.
[30:53] Speaker 3: I think he just nailed it.
[30:54] Speaker 1: That's exactly what I hear about Matt Lafloor, what we
[30:57] Speaker 1: see about our own eyes when we watch the Green
[30:59] Speaker 1: Bay Packers looking five of their nine losses, they led
[31:02] Speaker 1: by nine plus points.
[31:04] Speaker 3: Three times they lost when they didn't even punt. Like
[31:07] Speaker 3: if that's not coaching, I don't know what is. It's wow.
[31:11] Speaker 3: It is incredible what.
[31:12] Speaker 1: He did with Aaron Rodgers after a really messy breakup
[31:17] Speaker 1: with Mike McCarthy.
[31:18] Speaker 3: Now you're coming in with your offense.
[31:19] Speaker 1: If you got to blend it with Aaron Rodgers wanting
[31:21] Speaker 1: to do whatever the hell he wants to do with
[31:23] Speaker 1: the line of scrimmage. Somehow they made it work to
[31:25] Speaker 1: the point of what getting MVP awards, getting to Divisional
[31:30] Speaker 1: in conference playoff games.
[31:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, we know.
[31:32] Speaker 2: I know he's good with quarterbacks. I watched him with Malik,
[31:35] Speaker 2: I watched him with Jordan, I watched them with Aaron.
[31:37] Speaker 2: It's like Lincoln Riley. I don't doubt that part the mvpiecet.
[31:40] Speaker 2: I don't doubt it. This is about culture, right, and
[31:44] Speaker 2: that's what I wonder about.
[31:46] Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. It's totally about culture. What
[31:49] Speaker 1: he did with Jordan Love hell. I remember doing this
[31:51] Speaker 1: podcast after that brutal Raiders game.
[31:55] Speaker 3: It was awful, and we're all wondering, where's Jordan Love
[31:57] Speaker 3: gonna go from here?
[31:59] Speaker 1: He developed three years behind the scenes and then the
[32:01] Speaker 1: three years as a starter.
[32:03] Speaker 3: He is, in my opinion, a top ten, maybe a
[32:05] Speaker 3: top five quarterback.
[32:06] Speaker 1: But you're you shouldn't lose a game when your quarterback
[32:09] Speaker 1: throws for what three hundred plus yards, four touchdowns and
[32:12] Speaker 1: no picks on the road and there.
[32:15] Speaker 3: Look, we can nit pick plays all day long.
[32:17] Speaker 1: If if Michael Parsons is on the field, he probably
[32:20] Speaker 1: creates a big play that wins you that playoff game.
[32:23] Speaker 1: If Romeo Dobbs recovers an on side kick, you win
[32:26] Speaker 1: that game. But when it happens repeatedly. Go back to
[32:29] Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns game, they blow at ten nothing lead
[32:31] Speaker 1: to the freaking Browns with a.
[32:33] Speaker 3: Few minutes left. That is culture.
[32:35] Speaker 1: And I had a player tell me that he could
[32:39] Speaker 1: see and feel Matt.
[32:40] Speaker 3: Lafleur freeze up in his words, in big moments.
[32:44] Speaker 1: It's kind of like he there's a little there's a
[32:46] Speaker 1: little bit of a tenseness, a little bit of a
[32:48] Speaker 1: panic in some of these moments.
[32:50] Speaker 3: Look, I think you can grow, you can evolve.
[32:52] Speaker 1: Maybe he can get that out of him that this
[32:53] Speaker 1: is last year that the player told me that.
[32:56] Speaker 3: But you watch these games and you see these finishes,
[33:00] Speaker 3: it makes you wonder. Right, that's the big gamble.
[33:02] Speaker 1: By end policy here is that Matt Lafleur will continue
[33:05] Speaker 1: to develop as a coach and with the healthy make
[33:08] Speaker 1: of Parsons he can figure this out. They've got the talent.
[33:12] Speaker 1: I don't think talent's a problem. I think that's why
[33:13] Speaker 1: Brian Gudkins was always safe. He's the one that put
[33:16] Speaker 1: his career on the line for Jordan Love when everybody
[33:18] Speaker 1: was calling him nuts, and he saw something he believed.
[33:22] Speaker 3: He's the one that's drafted all these wide receivers.
[33:24] Speaker 1: Look, if we want to, Doc Brandon Bean probably could
[33:26] Speaker 1: take a page out of that Gutikin's playbook. Just draft
[33:29] Speaker 1: receivers around your quarterback and let him develop together.
[33:32] Speaker 3: He's done that. They made the big.
[33:34] Speaker 1: Move for Parsons. It's on the floor to figure all
[33:36] Speaker 1: that other stuff out. And I think it is rooted
[33:38] Speaker 1: in culture, whatever you want to define it by. There's
[33:42] Speaker 1: something amiss in Green Bay because look, if the new
[33:46] Speaker 1: playoff rules weren't in, they're not even making the playoffs
[33:49] Speaker 1: the last three years.
[33:50] Speaker 3: They're part of the forty four percent club?
[33:51] Speaker 1: Is that seventh seed because they added another team?
[33:54] Speaker 3: And what kind of conversation are we having right now?
[33:57] Speaker 3: With all that?
[33:59] Speaker 2: Right, let's end on the Patriots. You've spent time there
[34:03] Speaker 2: as well. Tyler Dunn is joining us. Go long is
[34:06] Speaker 2: sub stack just does tremendous work. I didn't think it
[34:11] Speaker 2: was that difficult. They had a ton of cap space.
[34:13] Speaker 2: I thought Drake May was really good, so I picked
[34:15] Speaker 2: him as a playoff team. It was my sort of
[34:18] Speaker 2: I pick a team every year, my double your win
[34:19] Speaker 2: total team that nobody expects, and my two surprise picks
[34:24] Speaker 2: this year where Seattle would make the playoffs and be
[34:26] Speaker 2: much better than people think. A lot of that was
[34:29] Speaker 2: rooted in John Snyder's drafting, where I thought he hit
[34:32] Speaker 2: another great draft in April and I thought that's three
[34:34] Speaker 2: stacked in a row. They got too many good players
[34:36] Speaker 2: and I'm a Donald fan. And the other was New England.
[34:39] Speaker 2: I said they'll double their win total. I thought about
[34:41] Speaker 2: nine to ten. I didn't think they'd be this good.
[34:47] Speaker 3: I've made.
[34:49] Speaker 2: The old Patriots were fascinating because they were outside of Brady.
[34:54] Speaker 2: They weren't great anywhere, but they were good everywhere and
[34:58] Speaker 2: terrible nowhere. And I feel like I'm watching the same
[35:01] Speaker 2: same owner, same offensive coordinator. Vrabel's a more current player,
[35:06] Speaker 2: friendly Belichick, and Drake May's a younger, more mobile Brady.
[35:10] Speaker 2: Now will he ever be that productive? Point not? But
[35:14] Speaker 2: my takeaway on all this is the reason Rabel really
[35:18] Speaker 2: took this is because he made a few calls and
[35:20] Speaker 2: everybody said, Drake may is really really good, but you
[35:24] Speaker 2: didn't know it because it was sporadic. Because a young
[35:29] Speaker 2: quarterback is as good as his coach, Caleb last year,
[35:33] Speaker 2: Caleb this year, Right, Like, you're as good as your coach.
[35:35] Speaker 2: Drake may had really bad coaching. Do you think when
[35:38] Speaker 2: you snoop around, like is the feeling we got Tom
[35:43] Speaker 2: Brady too?
[35:45] Speaker 3: Yes?
[35:46] Speaker 2: Two point zero And I.
[35:48] Speaker 1: Think it's a perfect storm for a lot of those
[35:50] Speaker 1: reasons you just laid out. Let's start with Vrabel. So
[35:54] Speaker 1: what he inherited? Yeah, I mean it was a mess,
[35:57] Speaker 1: but you can even go back a year before that.
[35:58] Speaker 1: I've talked to co that were on that Drawn Mayo's staff,
[36:02] Speaker 1: and right, it is kind of ridiculous that Drown Mayo
[36:06] Speaker 1: wasn't more prepared when you know you're the heir apparent
[36:09] Speaker 1: and you're gonna take this thing over, and yet you
[36:12] Speaker 1: don't really have your staff all lined up. But the
[36:15] Speaker 1: problem was kind of like all Drod Mayo had known
[36:17] Speaker 1: was the Patriot way at the Belichick way of doing things.
[36:20] Speaker 1: He takes over this is this is the first time
[36:22] Speaker 1: that the Patriots are going through a wholesale coaching change.
[36:25] Speaker 3: Like that in decades.
[36:28] Speaker 1: So what I was told is like down to the
[36:30] Speaker 1: little things, like some of these coaches that had to
[36:33] Speaker 1: move their families, Like the moving expenses that the Patriots
[36:38] Speaker 1: were giving these coaches was laughable.
[36:40] Speaker 3: It was nothing because years, for.
[36:43] Speaker 1: Years and years and years, everything just kind of ran
[36:45] Speaker 1: through Belichick, everything with status quo, and nothing was really modernized.
[36:49] Speaker 1: I mean the sauna you've got like wood paneling and
[36:52] Speaker 1: two by fours falling apart.
[36:54] Speaker 3: That was kind of trash that the coaches are in
[36:56] Speaker 3: for the sauna.
[36:57] Speaker 1: The offensive line coach, I believe he wanted some new
[37:00] Speaker 1: equipment and even asking ownership or asking whoever is in
[37:06] Speaker 1: charge for some of this new equipment to use whatever
[37:09] Speaker 1: they know, fifteen thousand dollars. It just everything was everything
[37:13] Speaker 1: was a chore. Everything too too much time. Drawd Mayo's
[37:17] Speaker 1: kind of getting pulled in all these directions. The next
[37:18] Speaker 1: thing he knows, he's pissing away a day, two days,
[37:21] Speaker 1: three days on stuff that isn't football. So Drod Mayo,
[37:25] Speaker 1: you don't know what you don't know. He didn't really
[37:28] Speaker 1: know what kind of vision he wanted to have.
[37:29] Speaker 3: For the team. Mike Rabel came in. He knew exactly
[37:33] Speaker 3: how he wanted to build this thing.
[37:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, he played for the Patriots, but he was the
[37:36] Speaker 1: coach for the Titans. He knows what works what doesn't work.
[37:40] Speaker 1: He had a staff ready to go. Josh McDaniels comes in,
[37:43] Speaker 1: and Josh McDaniels, they're sitting down him and Drake May
[37:46] Speaker 1: watching Tom Brady film right like you're running the same offense.
[37:50] Speaker 3: He played a lot of the.
[37:51] Speaker 1: Same teams and Josh mitatals. I'm sure you hear the
[37:54] Speaker 1: same thing. He's gonna be hard on you, man, like
[37:57] Speaker 1: he is old school. When he was Las Vegas head coach.
[38:00] Speaker 1: I had heard that he would just rip guys in
[38:02] Speaker 1: front of the team and it could make guys uncomfortable.
[38:06] Speaker 3: But Drake May can take it.
[38:09] Speaker 1: Drake May wanted it, and he wanted to have all
[38:13] Speaker 1: those answers to the test where I think like that
[38:14] Speaker 1: first staff and I've actually talked to T. C.
[38:16] Speaker 3: McCartney about it. At the quarterbacks coach.
[38:18] Speaker 1: You know, they helped his footwork that needed reconfigured out
[38:21] Speaker 1: of North Carolina. They did some good stuff, but they
[38:24] Speaker 1: didn't ask him to handle a lot of the line
[38:27] Speaker 1: of scrimmage, right, Like Josh McDaniels is going to ask
[38:29] Speaker 1: you to handle a lot of the line of scrimmage.
[38:31] Speaker 3: He's going to ask you to read a defense.
[38:33] Speaker 1: So like, TC was really excited about where this thing
[38:36] Speaker 1: was going. He saw Drake's talent, called him one of
[38:39] Speaker 1: the smartest people in the entire building. But when we
[38:41] Speaker 1: chatted early in the season, he's like, you know, that's
[38:43] Speaker 1: a hard offense to learn.
[38:45] Speaker 3: They might need a weapon or two. We caught up.
[38:47] Speaker 1: Later in the season, he's like, he's there. He's one
[38:49] Speaker 1: of the best quarterbacks in the game. So it really
[38:51] Speaker 1: is a perfect storm. When you've got the fundamentals, you
[38:54] Speaker 1: can read a defense, you can spread it around, and
[38:56] Speaker 1: you've got Mike Vrabel running the show.
[38:58] Speaker 3: Buckle in because the pay going to be good for
[39:00] Speaker 3: a really long time.
[39:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, for a really long time. I still think this
[39:04] Speaker 2: sounds crazy. I still think they're in a semi rebuild.
[39:08] Speaker 2: I think their offensive line needs needs to be fortified.
[39:15] Speaker 2: I think listen Will Campbell's a good left tackle. It
[39:17] Speaker 2: wasn't a great draft. I just think the old line's okay.
[39:23] Speaker 2: I actually wish they would have used Trevon Henderson a
[39:26] Speaker 2: little bit more. My guess was always they didn't because
[39:29] Speaker 2: he wasn't good in pass pro. I couldn't figure it
[39:31] Speaker 2: out because he's got a burst. They have Stevenson, so
[39:34] Speaker 2: I kept thinking I'd use him more because in some
[39:36] Speaker 2: of the games they used him, he was electric. But
[39:39] Speaker 2: they've got five or six rookies in a really average
[39:41] Speaker 2: draft actually playing a lot. I like their secondary. So yeah,
[39:47] Speaker 2: I think everybody thinks the Bills and the Ravens, Joe
[39:51] Speaker 2: Burrow and Harbaugh and Sean Payton are the ones that
[39:54] Speaker 2: are going to get in the way of Andy Reid
[39:55] Speaker 2: and Mahomes. I think it's New England. I think it's
[39:58] Speaker 2: Craft Vrabel May Josh McDaniel, I really do. I think
[40:02] Speaker 2: they're going to build a fortress, and I think they're
[40:05] Speaker 2: gonna they won't duplicate the first goal around. It's just impossible.
[40:09] Speaker 2: It almost it would be a ridiculous movie script to say,
[40:13] Speaker 2: you're gonna have twenty years two separate dynasties. But do
[40:17] Speaker 2: you think New England this year can win it?
[40:21] Speaker 1: You know what I went. I loved about Mike Vrabel.
[40:23] Speaker 1: He came in and I think a lot of folks
[40:26] Speaker 1: saw the speech he gave the team in the spring.
[40:29] Speaker 1: It hit so many of the write notes, but also
[40:33] Speaker 1: they on the practice field. Tamiko Ryan's kind of did
[40:35] Speaker 1: the same thing in Houston. He'll call you out like
[40:39] Speaker 1: if you're if you're tragging ass, if you're not going
[40:42] Speaker 1: through the echo of the whistle, he will pull you
[40:45] Speaker 1: aside I was told and say, look, no hard feelings.
[40:49] Speaker 1: If this isn't for you, we'll find a home for you.
[40:51] Speaker 1: But it's not here right. And you do that enough
[40:54] Speaker 1: and you're gonna have the attrition you need to build
[40:57] Speaker 1: the team you need this time of year to win
[41:00] Speaker 1: it all. And look at it started with Robert Splaine
[41:03] Speaker 1: and Morgan Moses and Milton Williams and Carlton Davis. They're
[41:06] Speaker 1: signing all these guys who who fit the ethos of
[41:08] Speaker 1: everything Mike Vrabel wants.
[41:10] Speaker 3: I've sat down with Carlton Davis. I mean, this is as.
[41:13] Speaker 1: Throwback of a hardcore cornerback straight.
[41:16] Speaker 3: Out of the seventies that you can imagine.
[41:18] Speaker 1: He might get three DPIs, but he's gonna get into
[41:21] Speaker 1: receiver's face. And he grew up in South Florida. Youth
[41:24] Speaker 1: football games are shootouts, breaking out. You're hitting the deck
[41:27] Speaker 1: hardcore stuff. You can see why Rabel likes a dude
[41:30] Speaker 1: like that, so he knows what kind of player he wants.
[41:35] Speaker 3: You know. What's also interesting Colin is.
[41:36] Speaker 1: Elliot Wolf is the gm son of the Hall of
[41:38] Speaker 1: Famer or he was there before Vrabel got there. Everything
[41:42] Speaker 1: I hear is that they've got a great relationship, and
[41:44] Speaker 1: you always wonder about that. Like in New York, Joe
[41:47] Speaker 1: Shane's there, John Harball comes in. John Harball wants to
[41:50] Speaker 1: that final say it. It sounds like Elliott Wolf and
[41:53] Speaker 1: Mike Rabel are even on the same page. It's I
[41:56] Speaker 1: think they beat Jared Stidham, they get to the Super Bowl.
[41:59] Speaker 1: Loves Seattle's roster, Love Matthew Stafford. The Patriots are ready
[42:03] Speaker 1: to win it all right now.
[42:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, Seattle's got a good, very good roster. The best
[42:10] Speaker 2: roster left is Seattle. But they can be a little
[42:13] Speaker 2: reckless with turnovers and penalties. I would say the cleanest
[42:20] Speaker 2: team is LA. They had no drop passes, no turnovers,
[42:26] Speaker 2: no penalties in like minus eight degrees in Chicago, they
[42:29] Speaker 2: played perfect football. I think the team with the greatest
[42:34] Speaker 2: next five to eight year runway is New England, and
[42:37] Speaker 2: I think the Broncos are four of four, and there's
[42:40] Speaker 2: a reason they're an underdog with bow Knicks. I'd give
[42:42] Speaker 2: them a shot without bow necks. I don't Tyler Dunn
[42:47] Speaker 2: so good. This is just great forty minutes. It's great.
[42:50] Speaker 2: You're crushing anything else you want to promote fire away?
[42:53] Speaker 3: Okay, thanks so much, Colin. I always appreciate hearing from
[42:56] Speaker 3: Josh and the gang.
[42:57] Speaker 1: Love coming out the pod. You're the absolute best. What
[43:00] Speaker 1: you built up with the volume is fantastic. I should
[43:03] Speaker 1: just plug your stuff. I listened to Middlekoffs podcast a lot.
[43:06] Speaker 3: Man. Oh, he's a great dude.
[43:08] Speaker 1: So I've got a story up at golong tv dot
[43:10] Speaker 1: com on why Sean McDermott was fired kind of the
[43:13] Speaker 1: stuff we hit on here and a lot more behind
[43:15] Speaker 1: the scenes, the relationship that he had with Sean McDermott
[43:19] Speaker 1: and what he's like to deal with day to day
[43:21] Speaker 1: in addition to the defensive performances and y Terbagoule and
[43:24] Speaker 1: the Bills decided to do this al So, Yeah, I
[43:27] Speaker 1: always just trying to talk to as many people around
[43:29] Speaker 1: the league as we possibly can and go beyond those
[43:31] Speaker 1: press conferences.
[43:33] Speaker 2: GOLONGTD dot com.
[43:35] Speaker 3: Great stuff thanks so much Colm. The volume

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