# Prime Cuts - Broncos Lose Bo Nix, Indiana Wins 1st Natty, NFL Coaching Carousel, Bills Drama

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 24 Jan 2026, 1 h 14 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/001674cf-56ad-4cd4-a277-b3db0142b25e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin’s top takes of the week. Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down the divisional round of the NFL playoffs and the National Championship between Indiana & Miami. Finally, Colin Cowherd is joined by Tyler Dunne from GoLongTD.com to discuss the drama and untold stories of the Buffalo Bills. Timeline: 2:00 - Broncos lose Nix in win over Buffalo 16:00 - Harbaugh & Stefanski land new jobs 32:30 - Indiana wins first championship 39:30 - NIL has transformed college football 50:00 - Bills drama (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: The volume. All right, let's go to Denver and overtime
[0:13] Speaker 1: thirty three to thirty over Buffalo. You know what, John,
[0:17] Speaker 1: Like everybody in America, I have watched every replay, and
[0:22] Speaker 1: I will say I think in most instances, when fans
[0:28] Speaker 1: you know it's rigged. If you're going to rig this thing,
[0:30] Speaker 1: you'd rig it for Josh Allen and the Bills, Bo Nixon,
[0:33] Speaker 1: the Super Bowls not moving a number. But I will
[0:36] Speaker 1: say I talked to a GM today and I looked
[0:39] Speaker 1: at several Let me put it this way, slow motion
[0:44] Speaker 1: usually creates clarity. I would argue this is one of
[0:48] Speaker 1: the rare instances slow motion created confusion because slow motion
[0:53] Speaker 1: makes it look like it's more of a catch by
[0:55] Speaker 1: Brandon Cooks than it is that in fast motion. When
[0:59] Speaker 1: I watched it about thirty times after talking to a GM,
[1:02] Speaker 1: the GM who is no, by the way, fan of Denver,
[1:05] Speaker 1: and I'll just leave it at that. Said, in the end,
[1:08] Speaker 1: if you look at it at real speed, the ball's
[1:11] Speaker 1: bouncing when he hits the ground, and that's not an
[1:13] Speaker 1: official cash though. Then it's whoever wins the wrestling match,
[1:16] Speaker 1: and Denver won the wrestling match. So I thought slow
[1:19] Speaker 1: mos I'm watching it in slow mo. It actually, in hindsight,
[1:22] Speaker 1: did it a disk service because it makes it look
[1:25] Speaker 1: like Coch is more in possession. That was my take. Anyway,
[1:28] Speaker 1: they got it right, but I've never seen anything like that,
[1:31] Speaker 1: so I didn't know for about a day how to
[1:33] Speaker 1: compute it.
[1:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the catch has become such
[1:36] Speaker 2: a convoluted situation in the NFL, Like why do we
[1:39] Speaker 2: have to make this so confusing? And by the letter
[1:42] Speaker 2: of the law, they got it right. I think you
[1:44] Speaker 2: could argue was he officially touched and then he ran
[1:47] Speaker 2: out of bounds and dropped the ball. Some people are
[1:48] Speaker 2: saying it should have been a Safety Bills win, But yeah,
[1:51] Speaker 2: I'm with you. I mean, I just think that we've
[1:54] Speaker 2: got to this point with instant replay, which does benefit us,
[1:58] Speaker 2: right because we can get things right. But also, like
[2:01] Speaker 2: I do feel for Sean McDermott. If you watched his
[2:04] Speaker 2: long kind of you know, he went on this, I
[2:07] Speaker 2: wouldn't even call it a rant because he was very
[2:09] Speaker 2: under control and he said, listen, if I take a
[2:11] Speaker 2: step back objectively, can we just try to get it right?
[2:14] Speaker 2: And it felt very rushed. Now I think, you know,
[2:18] Speaker 2: being in that spot in the first place, all the
[2:20] Speaker 2: turnovers right, obviously, the way the half ended for Buffalo,
[2:26] Speaker 2: there's a lot to even get to that point that
[2:29] Speaker 2: was avoidable. And I also think it's a reflection of
[2:32] Speaker 2: when the season's on the line. He's throwing a jump
[2:35] Speaker 2: ball to a very old I mean for NFL standards,
[2:39] Speaker 2: an older player who is not a jump ball player.
[2:43] Speaker 2: I mean, he's made some other place for him, and
[2:44] Speaker 2: he honestly has a couple. He made a great catch
[2:46] Speaker 2: to win out of bounds. But kind of a reflection
[2:49] Speaker 2: of their personnel, isn't that you and I talk about
[2:51] Speaker 2: a lot.
[2:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, Brandon Cooks has always been like a number two
[2:54] Speaker 1: or three. He's a speed guy. You run him up,
[2:55] Speaker 1: you run him deep. Yeah, I mean, this has been
[2:58] Speaker 1: my knock is that they have three elite players all
[3:01] Speaker 1: on offense.
[3:02] Speaker 3: You know.
[3:02] Speaker 1: And by the way, Josh Allen's best teammate, James cook
[3:05] Speaker 1: led running backs and fumbles, that's his best teammate. They
[3:08] Speaker 1: have a slot receiver, a good left tackle Josh Allen,
[3:11] Speaker 1: and a fumble prone running back who's got jets. That's
[3:14] Speaker 1: not great, you know. So my takeaway is it's really
[3:19] Speaker 1: not a good enough roster, so you are left to
[3:22] Speaker 1: I mean, they had three active guys. You're left to
[3:24] Speaker 1: throwing up a jump ball to a speed guy, not
[3:26] Speaker 1: a big receiver. Brandon Cooks is a smaller, smaller speed
[3:30] Speaker 1: guy without a huge catching radius. So you know, I mean,
[3:35] Speaker 1: my question if you're gonna run McDermott out of the building.
[3:38] Speaker 1: And I think he's a BB plus coach. I feel
[3:40] Speaker 1: like this, oh was something last year. They couldn't get
[3:42] Speaker 1: the tush push right. This year it's multiple turnovers. The
[3:45] Speaker 1: year before, you know, three years ago or whatever it was,
[3:47] Speaker 1: it was the thirteen second loss. You know, years and
[3:50] Speaker 1: years and years ago, it was wide right. It's always
[3:53] Speaker 1: something for Buffalo. But I do feel like there are
[3:55] Speaker 1: certain teams. We watched the Indiana Hoosiers. While they're tight,
[4:00] Speaker 1: the Belichick dynasty really tight, I just feel it usually
[4:04] Speaker 1: comes on the offensive side. John Buffalo is a little loose.
[4:08] Speaker 1: They've missed on a lot of picks. They have too
[4:11] Speaker 1: many turnovers. I thought Josh was very reckless. Can't you
[4:14] Speaker 1: coach some of that out of him? By the way,
[4:16] Speaker 1: another defensive coach, Demiko Ryans, who I think fondly of C. J.
[4:20] Speaker 1: Stroud Way too loose. You know, sometimes I look at
[4:24] Speaker 1: these defensive coaches and they're so good on the defensive
[4:27] Speaker 1: side elevating and developing that the offense just doesn't feel
[4:31] Speaker 1: like it's buttoned up. And that's Buffalo again.
[4:34] Speaker 2: I do think when it comes to Josh in the
[4:35] Speaker 2: reckless nature, I mean, that's probably the worst playoff game
[4:37] Speaker 2: he's ever had. I mean statistically right, you know, I
[4:40] Speaker 2: think there's a farveing quality. I don't think you coached
[4:43] Speaker 2: that out. I mean he had Mike Holmger and Andy Reid,
[4:45] Speaker 2: John Gruden, Steve Mariucci and you know, in the prime
[4:47] Speaker 2: of his career, and he drove them all nuts. Sean
[4:50] Speaker 2: McDermott on an individual play basis, like the end of half.
[4:54] Speaker 2: He's not the offensive coordinator, but that's how you come
[4:56] Speaker 2: on the headset. We're kneeling it, Tony Romo, you know,
[4:59] Speaker 2: best point of the day was like you could not
[5:01] Speaker 2: it's not worth the risk there when you don't have
[5:03] Speaker 2: any timeouts. And then Josh, you know, carries the ball
[5:05] Speaker 2: like Shady McCoy and the ball hits the ground. But
[5:08] Speaker 2: like on the the aggregate of his career, they've been
[5:11] Speaker 2: really successful right up until yesterday they were eight no
[5:15] Speaker 2: to non Mahomes Joe Burrow teams. So they had won
[5:18] Speaker 2: a lot of playoff games. Look at how many playoff
[5:20] Speaker 2: games he's won relative to like Harrball and Tomlin. I mean,
[5:23] Speaker 2: Harball has got a hundred million dollars. If Tomlin chose
[5:26] Speaker 2: to coach, he'd probably get a hundred million dollars right now.
[5:29] Speaker 2: And Sean McDermott, I think, would say, well, we're all
[5:32] Speaker 2: defensive CEO types. I actually think the GM, and you
[5:36] Speaker 2: look around the league, all these gms survived, Joe Shane,
[5:39] Speaker 2: the guy in Arizona, the guy in Cleveland. I think
[5:42] Speaker 2: the GM relative to having this court, Howie Roseman, you
[5:45] Speaker 2: would rather get thrown off the Walt Whitman than be
[5:48] Speaker 2: to not be aggressive when he had Josh Allen as
[5:50] Speaker 2: his quarterback, and I think if you look at him
[5:53] Speaker 2: a little Farviyan Ted Thompson or not Rogers. I mean,
[5:57] Speaker 2: remember it was like god, Ted be aggressive here. You
[6:00] Speaker 2: got this guy in the peak of it, and they
[6:01] Speaker 2: weren't smaller market. Now they have an owner, but he
[6:05] Speaker 2: doesn't feel that aggressive at least from sitting here three
[6:08] Speaker 2: thousand miles away, like some of these owners I think
[6:10] Speaker 2: the GM has been dramatically worse than Sean McDermott. Now
[6:14] Speaker 2: we feel Sean McDermott more on game day than we
[6:17] Speaker 2: do the GM, just because on an visual play basis.
[6:20] Speaker 2: But I think the GM, relative to having this all
[6:22] Speaker 2: time great quarterback, has been really bad. I mean Kethon Coleman.
[6:26] Speaker 2: He had a touchdown yesterday but was inactive most of
[6:28] Speaker 2: the season. So it's like, how many impact one thing?
[6:32] Speaker 2: How did the forty nine ers keep it going all
[6:34] Speaker 2: these years? They hit on a lot of like mid
[6:35] Speaker 2: round guys to become him, Like where are those guys
[6:37] Speaker 2: in Buffalo? You know Shakier's been on the team a
[6:39] Speaker 2: long time now it's like, you know, Cook was a
[6:42] Speaker 2: second round pick. Where are your big impact guys and
[6:45] Speaker 2: they where are your aggressive moves? Like why when how
[6:49] Speaker 2: he's making these trades? When less Snie, when John Schneider,
[6:51] Speaker 2: why aren't you hand in hand with them? Like, hey,
[6:53] Speaker 2: I need to outbid this guy. When the forty nine
[6:56] Speaker 2: ers traded for McCaffrey, they had an add an extra
[6:58] Speaker 2: pick because the Rams are gonna get him and people
[7:00] Speaker 2: now the Rams and the Niners are crazy here, but
[7:02] Speaker 2: they lean aggressiveness when I look at Buffalo, it's like, Yeah,
[7:05] Speaker 2: they're just not that aggressive of a front office, and
[7:07] Speaker 2: I think it's bit them on the margins when they've
[7:09] Speaker 2: had now Finally, their quarterback played a bad game. But man,
[7:14] Speaker 2: so to me Sean McDermott, by the time people are
[7:16] Speaker 2: listening this Monday, he might be done. But the GM
[7:19] Speaker 2: to me, cannot be one of those that survives and
[7:21] Speaker 2: the coach goes. That would be insanity to me now.
[7:24] Speaker 1: And credit to Denver, they will not have bow Knicks.
[7:27] Speaker 1: Jarrett Stidham, because he's been in the program a couple
[7:29] Speaker 1: of years, should be a fairly competent backup, and they
[7:32] Speaker 1: also have between MEM's Courtland Sutton Harvey. They run the
[7:36] Speaker 1: ball pretty effectively at times. They did not against Buffalo,
[7:39] Speaker 1: credit to McDermott and the defense. They didn't run the
[7:41] Speaker 1: ball well. But Stidham should be a capable backup. He
[7:45] Speaker 1: won't run like bow next he's not that athlete. But
[7:48] Speaker 1: in the end, could I not argue the Broncos have
[7:51] Speaker 1: the better coach, the better roster, the more efficient quarterback
[7:54] Speaker 1: for this game, and frankly huge edge on deep balls
[7:58] Speaker 1: at wide receiver. Lost in all of this is that
[8:01] Speaker 1: bo Nicks was two for two on two big deep
[8:05] Speaker 1: ball home run touchdown throws. He did a lot of
[8:08] Speaker 1: stuff under eight yards, a lot of stuff behind the
[8:11] Speaker 1: line of scrimmage. The two times he went big he
[8:13] Speaker 1: hit on both of them. So lost in all of
[8:16] Speaker 1: this was their corners got beat twice on big plays
[8:18] Speaker 1: and boon Nix was more efficient.
[8:20] Speaker 2: Well, think about this one area that he got a
[8:23] Speaker 2: lot of credit this year. So did Caleb. Throughout the
[8:25] Speaker 2: regular season when it mattered most, they turned into a
[8:27] Speaker 2: high level player. Yeah, I mean both of them played
[8:30] Speaker 2: like top five guys on the last couple drives throughout
[8:33] Speaker 2: the season when their backs were against the wall. That
[8:35] Speaker 2: led them to both winning a bunch of games right
[8:36] Speaker 2: and becoming you know, high sets. His final drive was fantastic, fantastic,
[8:41] Speaker 2: multiple big shots in zone coverage, a big run for
[8:44] Speaker 2: a first down, and obviously the game winning touched or
[8:47] Speaker 2: game I guess if they took the lead and then
[8:48] Speaker 2: Buffalo tied it. But it was just a gorgeous pass.
[8:51] Speaker 2: And what was an area that we hammered him on
[8:54] Speaker 2: this season was like, ah, the deep balls a little,
[8:56] Speaker 2: it's not great. And I think one thing if you
[8:59] Speaker 2: wanted to be critical of Sean with bow like I
[9:01] Speaker 2: think Ben Johnson's a lot like this too. Their favorite
[9:04] Speaker 2: plays are timing pass routes. That's what Ben Johnson thrived
[9:08] Speaker 2: with Jared Goff and him wish Sean Payton. These guys
[9:12] Speaker 2: are playmaking athletes. You kind of gotta let him and
[9:15] Speaker 2: it's hard, you know, Steve Kerr and I'm not comparing
[9:17] Speaker 2: Steph Curry to either one of these guys, but like
[9:20] Speaker 2: Lit's sometimes he's got to let him be him and
[9:22] Speaker 2: most coaches struggle with that. And I think he got like,
[9:25] Speaker 2: this game's probably not as close if Sean just let
[9:27] Speaker 2: him kind of scramble around and make plays. But sometimes
[9:30] Speaker 2: in the pocket that's not where bo when he gets
[9:32] Speaker 2: out of rhythm, it can look a little off right,
[9:35] Speaker 2: but as he just kind of like, hey, make some plays,
[9:37] Speaker 2: we need a touchdown, run around, let it loose. That's
[9:40] Speaker 2: when he's at his best. Which do you ever remember
[9:43] Speaker 2: a game ending and then all of a sudden the
[9:45] Speaker 2: guy broke his ankle and no one saw it. I mean,
[9:47] Speaker 2: it's it feels like an unprecedented an injury when you
[9:50] Speaker 2: factor in, no one knew even clearly the coach didn't
[9:53] Speaker 2: know till he was told. I mean he walked. The
[9:56] Speaker 2: NFL tweeted out a video of him walking off the field,
[9:59] Speaker 2: high five in people.
[10:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just think it's a bummer that
[10:03] Speaker 1: Jared Stidham is playing, because I do think Denver, although
[10:06] Speaker 1: I don't know if they would win the Super Bowl,
[10:08] Speaker 1: I do think they're on a short list of teams
[10:10] Speaker 1: that can compete with it. I think they have an
[10:12] Speaker 1: excellent roster. And I'll give you I was thinking about
[10:15] Speaker 1: this today. John Denver and Seattle pivoted off Russell Wilson.
[10:21] Speaker 1: Denver really paid both number one seeds and the message
[10:26] Speaker 1: to the NFL, if you make a mistake, move off
[10:31] Speaker 1: it quickly. Think about this. Gerrod Mayo, New England, big mistake,
[10:36] Speaker 1: moved off it. They're in the AFC Championship. Seattle, you
[10:41] Speaker 1: know we got Russell Wilson, were moving off it didn't
[10:44] Speaker 1: take long. Geno Smith, Darnold Boom, number one seed, hit
[10:48] Speaker 1: on draft picks. Denver still paying cat room for this
[10:51] Speaker 1: year bow Nick's drafting playoffs. Second year, number one seed
[10:55] Speaker 1: now AFC Championship. Bad weekend for Russell Wilson, not to
[10:58] Speaker 1: bury him, but the point being between New England and Denver.
[11:02] Speaker 1: The message is, guys, don't get out of the rigidity
[11:07] Speaker 1: if you make a mistake with a coach or a quarterback.
[11:10] Speaker 1: The rebuilds are a year in the NFL you get
[11:13] Speaker 1: about a crappy year. I mean Denver in their rebuild
[11:16] Speaker 1: year with bow Knicks made the playoffs. New England I
[11:19] Speaker 1: believe a rebuild year is going to make the AFC Championship.
[11:23] Speaker 1: So I kept thinking about it this weekend when I
[11:25] Speaker 1: looked at Denver ight. The overarching message is you get
[11:29] Speaker 1: the coach right, you get the quarterback mostly right. Bo
[11:32] Speaker 1: Nix is hit and miss. You can not only make
[11:35] Speaker 1: the playoffs, you can end up a number one seed.
[11:38] Speaker 1: Our number one seeds are Bo Nicks and Sam Darnold.
[11:42] Speaker 1: You know, so we were getting into a weird space, John,
[11:45] Speaker 1: where it felt like mahomes Alan Lamar like you were
[11:48] Speaker 1: getting into a space where it felt like you had
[11:50] Speaker 1: to have a superstar quarterback to get in. The takeaway
[11:53] Speaker 1: now is no ge get a young talented quarterback Caleb Williams.
[11:58] Speaker 1: I mean Stafford's now the only expensive I left right
[12:01] Speaker 1: going into this.
[12:02] Speaker 2: I mean I also think that a lot of it,
[12:06] Speaker 2: like the Texans are a good example. If CJ. Stroud
[12:08] Speaker 2: would have taken the approach like, Hey, on this team,
[12:11] Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer, call
[12:14] Speaker 2: me a game manager. They could have won.
[12:16] Speaker 3: The Super Bowl.
[12:16] Speaker 2: But he tried to play like on this number two
[12:20] Speaker 2: overall quarterback, watch me make plays? Is like, bro, do
[12:23] Speaker 2: you do not need to do that? So I think
[12:25] Speaker 2: there's this fine line of can you get a guy
[12:28] Speaker 2: to play within your system? Understand what he is? It's hard.
[12:30] Speaker 2: These quarterbacks now are rock stars. They make a ton
[12:33] Speaker 2: of money on and off the field, and some guys
[12:36] Speaker 2: just can't kind of find their lane, and then you're
[12:38] Speaker 2: very predicated on the play calling. Also, when you pay
[12:41] Speaker 2: a lot of money for these quarterbacks, it does limit
[12:44] Speaker 2: I mean Buffalo and Kansas City just have less wiggle
[12:46] Speaker 2: room to make moves. I look at Denver, I want
[12:48] Speaker 2: Hufunga and I want Greenlow boom by it Bot mcglinchi.
[12:51] Speaker 2: A year ago. You just start, you just can be
[12:54] Speaker 2: a little more aggressive once you pivot off and kind
[12:56] Speaker 2: of manipulate the cap. Also, it speaks to these owners,
[13:00] Speaker 2: what is Denver doing a lot? Like the Eagles did.
[13:02] Speaker 2: They funny money contracts. They pay you more cash up front,
[13:05] Speaker 2: push it all down the line, and it's become not
[13:08] Speaker 2: only a smart guy, aggressive league, but is your owner
[13:11] Speaker 2: willing because they all have money, Like the Browns want
[13:14] Speaker 2: to spend money. They can, they just choose not to.
[13:16] Speaker 2: In Cincinnati, they be cheap. It's your owner wants to
[13:18] Speaker 2: double down. I mean that's been the knock on Jerry.
[13:20] Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, just I'll pay you a couple guys,
[13:22] Speaker 2: but like I'm gonna be a little cheap on the margins.
[13:25] Speaker 2: And I think Denver, clearly this is only gonna solidify
[13:29] Speaker 2: they They might get beat by twenty points in the
[13:31] Speaker 2: AFC Championship just because this guy doesn't take any reps. Right,
[13:35] Speaker 2: so we're in late January. I mean he's probably gone
[13:39] Speaker 2: four months without really taking assuming Bo takes them all
[13:42] Speaker 2: during practice he's with the scout team. That's a lot
[13:44] Speaker 2: to ask. So even worst case scenario, but big picture, now,
[13:48] Speaker 2: Sean's kind of you know, validated what I tell you
[13:51] Speaker 2: when I want something to listen to me. And these owners,
[13:54] Speaker 2: I mean, who has more money than Walmart, you know,
[13:56] Speaker 2: Steve Balmer. I mean it's a very short list. So
[13:58] Speaker 2: it's like, hey, let's pay this, give him a eighty
[14:01] Speaker 2: million dollars signing bonus. We'll do a ten year contract
[14:03] Speaker 2: and will manipulate the books. And that's why they were
[14:06] Speaker 2: able to kind of maneuver the Russell Wilson disaster. Think
[14:09] Speaker 2: about Trey Lance. Niners pivoted in a blink of an eye.
[14:13] Speaker 2: Boom didn't even think twice. You know, Carson wentz years
[14:17] Speaker 2: ago with the Eagles. It's like, if you're willing to
[14:19] Speaker 2: be like, hey, we miss him, we traded its first rounders,
[14:21] Speaker 2: We paid a bunch of money. Who cares. You're all
[14:23] Speaker 2: making so much money you won't even remember it in
[14:27] Speaker 2: six months.
[14:28] Speaker 1: Giants get their guy Atlanta against their guy. Baltimore's probably
[14:32] Speaker 1: next top of the food chain with Steve Bushatti, Lamar Jackson,
[14:35] Speaker 1: good roster. Steelers at best get fourth, Watch out Pittsburgh.
[14:40] Speaker 1: John Harbaugh to New York. So I texted GM today.
[14:44] Speaker 1: I said, Joe Shane, I mean John Harbaugh's making twenty
[14:48] Speaker 1: million a year. Joe Shane has no leverage. And that's
[14:52] Speaker 1: what he said. This is John is going to go
[14:54] Speaker 1: straight tomorrow. I have picked four years in a row,
[14:59] Speaker 1: my double year total team Giants went four and thirteen.
[15:02] Speaker 1: I actually think they're going to be a ten or
[15:04] Speaker 1: eleven win team next year. I think Washington's a bit
[15:06] Speaker 1: of a mess. Dallas, we don't know what they're doing
[15:09] Speaker 1: with the coaching position. I think they're bringing the you know,
[15:11] Speaker 1: they're bringing Brian Schottenheimer back. They still have some real
[15:14] Speaker 1: holes defensively. You know, you get to watch Jackson Dart,
[15:18] Speaker 1: John Harbaugh and watch Jackson Dart for a year and say,
[15:21] Speaker 1: let's see, I'm gonna I'm gonna start him and see
[15:23] Speaker 1: if I like him. Because it's good. They're gonna be
[15:24] Speaker 1: going into a great quarterback draft out of college. I
[15:27] Speaker 1: think it sets up really well. I think between Andrew Thomas,
[15:30] Speaker 1: if they get a right tackle like the Tampa Bay
[15:32] Speaker 1: Buccaneers did with Brady Go get a right tackle, there's
[15:35] Speaker 1: three good ones in the first round. I think offensively
[15:38] Speaker 1: they're going to be interesting. They've got Duel Carter, they
[15:41] Speaker 1: got Brian Burns. Probably need some secondary help. I strongly
[15:46] Speaker 1: believe that this is a They don't need a schematic guy, John,
[15:49] Speaker 1: they don't need a play caller. They need a culture changer.
[15:53] Speaker 1: There's no Shanahans on the market right that's rare. You
[15:56] Speaker 1: get the CEO and the play caller, play designer. Harbottom
[16:00] Speaker 1: is what they needed. Successful culture builder, good staff builder.
[16:05] Speaker 1: I like, I'll be honest, if they get the right
[16:07] Speaker 1: tackle and a corner and a tight end in the draft,
[16:10] Speaker 1: John I liked their.
[16:12] Speaker 2: Roster Yeah to me, and it's a great fit for him. Yeah.
[16:16] Speaker 2: When it when he got fired and then the next
[16:19] Speaker 2: day they fired Mike McDaniel and it was like they're
[16:22] Speaker 2: gonna go after him. I was like John Harbott in Miami.
[16:25] Speaker 2: That feels like a weirdest fit. That feels like where
[16:28] Speaker 2: a guy goes to kind of retire in his shoes.
[16:31] Speaker 2: To me, he feels New York giants. You know. Since
[16:33] Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight he got hired with Philadelphia, I think
[16:36] Speaker 2: that was the year before Andy Reid even got there. Yeah,
[16:38] Speaker 2: Andy kept him and then so basically from ninety eight
[16:41] Speaker 2: till a couple of weeks ago, he's been in Philadelphia
[16:43] Speaker 2: and Baltimore, like he belongs in that area. He's company,
[16:47] Speaker 2: he feels like that area.
[16:48] Speaker 1: Yes, so it's vretable.
[16:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I don't really remember the Walsh Niner era,
[16:57] Speaker 2: but there was one team that could handle him and
[16:58] Speaker 2: it was Bill par Sills, and then the one team
[17:01] Speaker 2: that could take down Brady and Belichick it was Tom Coughlin.
[17:04] Speaker 2: And I would say that when Bill Parcells and Tom Coughlin.
[17:07] Speaker 2: I remember meeting Tom Coughlin one time at the combine.
[17:10] Speaker 2: He's not the biggest, most intimidating human. It's not like
[17:12] Speaker 2: a vraybel or a Jim Harbaugh. But when you met him,
[17:15] Speaker 2: you felt like, this guy's the boss. You know, just
[17:17] Speaker 2: like stand up straight, and to me, that's what the
[17:20] Speaker 2: Harball's bring to the table. So the Giants, now you
[17:22] Speaker 2: could argue this about New York, think about the successful coaches,
[17:25] Speaker 2: even remove football pat Riley, right, Joe Tory, they've kind
[17:30] Speaker 2: of been like, yeah, this guy's the boss. And the
[17:33] Speaker 2: last decade since they got rid of Coughlin, which wasn't
[17:36] Speaker 2: the wrong move, it was time they got a bunch
[17:38] Speaker 2: of guys that like, this guy's a number two, this
[17:40] Speaker 2: guy's at number three, this guy's no in this market.
[17:43] Speaker 2: To you can pull it off in some of these
[17:45] Speaker 2: smaller market spots, you have no chance. In New York,
[17:47] Speaker 2: you get eaten alive. The Jets make that mistake a
[17:50] Speaker 2: lot right, and John Harbaugh will come in. I mean,
[17:53] Speaker 2: look at they are very very lucky that this played
[17:58] Speaker 2: out the way it did. He gives them a chance
[18:00] Speaker 2: to change the franchise.
[18:01] Speaker 1: Also, John, when you do the first hire, you get
[18:03] Speaker 1: the best staff. So this is why I worry about Pittsburgh.
[18:06] Speaker 1: So Atlanta immediately goes and gets Stefanski because they want
[18:10] Speaker 1: to get the best. Stefanski wants to get that defensive
[18:13] Speaker 1: staff in. Because Stefanski's going to get a good offensive staff.
[18:15] Speaker 1: He's a bright guy. He wants to get special teams
[18:18] Speaker 1: and defense taken care of. So I mean, to me,
[18:20] Speaker 1: I think Atlanta is very attractive in terms of offensive skill,
[18:24] Speaker 1: pretty good offensive line. I think their stability in Arthur Blank,
[18:27] Speaker 1: I think people respect Arthur Blank. I think Stefanski's really bright.
[18:30] Speaker 1: It's a weaker division. You're playing indoors, you know. To me,
[18:33] Speaker 1: I think Stefanski would fit there. But the minute the
[18:35] Speaker 1: Giants went hardball, I think Atlanta looks at that and goes,
[18:38] Speaker 1: all right, let's get our guy. That's where I worry
[18:40] Speaker 1: about Pittsburgh because they don't do this at least Atlanta
[18:44] Speaker 1: and the Giants have. They have a history of hiring
[18:47] Speaker 1: coaches and the process.
[18:49] Speaker 2: My only issue with the Giants. Thing is the Giants
[18:53] Speaker 2: had to do whatever it took to get this guy.
[18:54] Speaker 2: They gave one hundred million dollars. I mean, great time
[18:57] Speaker 2: to be a coach. I mean, how much money is
[18:58] Speaker 2: John Harbaugh going to make over the course? Byw thousand
[19:00] Speaker 2: and thirty, he'll be worth like hundreds of millions of dollars.
[19:02] Speaker 3: This guy.
[19:03] Speaker 2: These guys are crushing it. But I do think you've
[19:06] Speaker 2: got to be very careful. And Andy's like his mentor,
[19:09] Speaker 2: a guy that he looks up to. I think that helped.
[19:11] Speaker 2: He talked to a bunch when Andy went to Kansas City.
[19:13] Speaker 2: He said, listen, I do not want to pick the players. Now,
[19:16] Speaker 2: I'm not saying John is saying that, but when you
[19:19] Speaker 2: put yourself away from the GM, you have all the
[19:22] Speaker 2: juice to me the Giants. What they should do is, listen,
[19:25] Speaker 2: we are going to put you at the top of
[19:26] Speaker 2: the food chain, but we want you, like your brother
[19:29] Speaker 2: with Ortiz, get someone you really respect so you can
[19:33] Speaker 2: lean on him. Like, you know what. Demko doesn't have
[19:35] Speaker 2: to worry about picking players. Casario does it all right,
[19:39] Speaker 2: you know what. Mike McDonald doesn't have to worry about
[19:41] Speaker 2: picking players. John does it all focus on coaching, focus
[19:44] Speaker 2: on the culture. Obviously, you impact who we draft and sign.
[19:48] Speaker 2: But right now, John's kind of it's kind of grud
[19:51] Speaker 2: and like and Mark Davis said, I want you to
[19:53] Speaker 2: work with Reggie mackenzie for a year. You know why
[19:55] Speaker 2: because I think a lot of these owners, they spend
[19:57] Speaker 2: way more time with the gym. They end up liking
[19:59] Speaker 2: the guy. I'm sure they like Joe Shane a lot.
[20:01] Speaker 2: This is never gonna Joe Shane. I would be stunt now.
[20:04] Speaker 2: I said that about Sean Payton with the guy he's
[20:06] Speaker 2: still there. The GM that you know kind of fall
[20:09] Speaker 2: so it's never guaranteed. You know, he's got a year
[20:11] Speaker 2: to sell himself. And George pat Peyton Patton, right, yeah,
[20:14] Speaker 2: still Shawn's GM.
[20:15] Speaker 1: He's respected though, I mean he's pretty good personnel guy.
[20:19] Speaker 2: Had turned down GM interviews for like seven years before
[20:22] Speaker 2: he got the Denver job. He was kind of like
[20:24] Speaker 2: you know, Chris Ballard, Adam Peters. There are these rare
[20:27] Speaker 2: personnel guys that, like Cassario was like, that have a
[20:30] Speaker 2: run where they kind of pick their specific job. This
[20:33] Speaker 2: doesn't feel like that with Joe Shane, and it almost
[20:35] Speaker 2: feels inevitable that he's just gonna have a raven type
[20:38] Speaker 2: guy in that spot. Why not do it right now?
[20:41] Speaker 2: Why not just start fresh? So John, because sometimes coaches
[20:45] Speaker 2: they think a lot different than personnel guys Rshonelle. Guys
[20:48] Speaker 2: can be a little less emotional, can think bigger picture stuff.
[20:51] Speaker 2: They understand the marketplace of the draft a little bit better.
[20:54] Speaker 2: And I'd just be Now, the Giants don't really have
[20:57] Speaker 2: a crazy It's not like there's a Khalil Mack for
[20:59] Speaker 2: him to trade or know something crazy for him. But
[21:01] Speaker 2: in a year he could do something that maybe he
[21:03] Speaker 2: would regret in two years that he didn't have to
[21:05] Speaker 2: do that in Baltimore because he had Ozzie and Ericacosta
[21:08] Speaker 2: and by many consider the best one of the best
[21:11] Speaker 2: staffs in the league. Now he's going he's you know
[21:15] Speaker 2: Vrabel when he went to New England, brought one of
[21:17] Speaker 2: his guys to Tennessee to work with Elliott Wolf. I
[21:19] Speaker 2: have a lot of friends that think, you watch John
[21:22] Speaker 2: will bring uh, you know, a Baltimore guy with him.
[21:26] Speaker 2: But then that's what's the point, you know, it's I'd
[21:29] Speaker 2: be very careful about that, totally pro the higher think
[21:32] Speaker 2: it's a no brainer, but that the coach having too
[21:35] Speaker 2: much jew sometimes they can. I think he told the
[21:38] Speaker 2: Youan O'Connor, we plan on making the playoffs next year.
[21:40] Speaker 2: I mean, this guy's not coming there to uh to rebuild.
[21:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's hard enough to be a GM.
[21:46] Speaker 1: I think you have to be very careful about wanting
[21:49] Speaker 1: that power. Sean Payton has had some power, but again
[21:52] Speaker 1: has a really strong guy. Joe Shane, I don't. I
[21:55] Speaker 1: don't think is going to rise to a top five
[21:58] Speaker 1: GM the Saquon Barkley move because it was so public
[22:01] Speaker 1: and on TV. But I mean, let's be honest. Abdul
[22:04] Speaker 1: Carter was skataboo. Jackson Dart Malik neighbors when he's healthy.
[22:09] Speaker 1: I mean, there are some players on this roster that
[22:12] Speaker 1: he's done a pretty good job. Joe Shane hasn't. He
[22:14] Speaker 1: hasn't whiffed. I mean Brandon Bean with the Buffalo Bills has.
[22:18] Speaker 1: I mean, there's some big whiffs here. So Joe Shane's
[22:21] Speaker 1: done been more than competent for a lot of his
[22:23] Speaker 1: draft picks. The Saquon Bartley thing is going to hang
[22:25] Speaker 1: over him forever.
[22:27] Speaker 3: That's why.
[22:28] Speaker 1: That's another reason why you don't want to do one
[22:29] Speaker 1: of these HBO Hard Knocks shows. But I my argument
[22:34] Speaker 1: is that division between Dallas's dysfunction. You know, Dan Quinn,
[22:38] Speaker 1: keep your eyes on that, Adam Peters basically Cliff Kingsbury
[22:41] Speaker 1: felt he was bullied. Now you don't have an offensive
[22:44] Speaker 1: coordinator Jade and Daniels. You cross your fingers. Siriani's going
[22:48] Speaker 1: to maintain his job. So my take it, this is
[22:50] Speaker 1: not one of the stronger coach divisions. This is not mcveay,
[22:53] Speaker 1: Shanahan and Mike McDonald. Okay, this division is a Harbaugh.
[22:57] Speaker 1: The minute you hired Vrabel, best coach in the division,
[23:00] Speaker 1: the minute you hire John Harbaugh, best coach in the division,
[23:03] Speaker 1: that usually works out well.
[23:06] Speaker 2: Well, I think what you can see with Washington come
[23:08] Speaker 2: from a mile away is Mike Tomlin because pretty sure
[23:12] Speaker 2: Mike Tomlin's from that general area. Yeah, and he's gonna
[23:16] Speaker 2: go on TV. His stock is only going to skyrocket
[23:19] Speaker 2: and who's their owner? An NBA guy who is He
[23:22] Speaker 2: hired Doc Rivers. Nick Nurse won an NBA championship in
[23:26] Speaker 2: nb get Paul George Like, the NBA's just splash your league,
[23:30] Speaker 2: and that's he's kind of used to that, and he goes, well,
[23:33] Speaker 2: we haven't even won, but we've always been a topic
[23:35] Speaker 2: of conversation. We can win and be a topic of conversation.
[23:38] Speaker 2: To me, you can see it coming from a mile away.
[23:40] Speaker 2: The Tomlin thing. Who's his right hand man now, Bob Myers,
[23:44] Speaker 2: NBA guy, their mental Bushott, he's an NFL guy, thinks
[23:47] Speaker 2: big picture, can take a deep breath, doesn't live you know,
[23:51] Speaker 2: on Twitter, like doesn't even care. Right, most of these
[23:54] Speaker 2: NFL owners, they're making so much money. They realized that
[23:57] Speaker 2: they've been making the money before social media. They realize
[23:59] Speaker 2: how a real thing is. The NBA is a little
[24:01] Speaker 2: bit more of day to day Internet, all about flashy
[24:04] Speaker 2: headlines and Josh Harris like to me, dan Quinn's a
[24:09] Speaker 2: year away. You don't make the playoffs next year.
[24:12] Speaker 1: Which listen, the Eagles.
[24:13] Speaker 2: Obviously they're coach, but they're gonna be good. You know,
[24:15] Speaker 2: they got good players.
[24:16] Speaker 1: Dallas john sasty Ben Johnson turned down Washington. His takeaway
[24:21] Speaker 1: was the Washington guys, the NBA. Washington guys thought they
[24:26] Speaker 1: knew a little more about football than they really did.
[24:29] Speaker 1: Those are NBA guys. Yeah, I think the Tomlin thing,
[24:33] Speaker 1: I think you're right about. And Tomlin's not a college
[24:36] Speaker 1: or a West coast guy. He wants to stay east.
[24:39] Speaker 1: That's his heritage, that's his history, that's what he feels
[24:41] Speaker 1: comfortable doing. Again, some of these guys, Belichick, Vrabel, Tomlin, Harball,
[24:47] Speaker 1: they just feel like they're at home. They feel comfort.
[24:49] Speaker 1: Where you live dictates a lot of your happiness and
[24:51] Speaker 1: comfort and confidence. And I think you're right.
[24:54] Speaker 2: I give Mike a lot of credit if truly and
[24:56] Speaker 2: who knows exactly the behind the scenes detail, but if
[24:59] Speaker 2: he truly looked in the mirror, and he probably would
[25:01] Speaker 2: have known this before the day that he announced, Like,
[25:04] Speaker 2: this thing's over, right, they're gonna be better off. I
[25:07] Speaker 2: need to move. Sean Payton did the same thing, like, guys,
[25:10] Speaker 2: this thing's done, we need both pivot nineteen eighteen years.
[25:14] Speaker 2: You know, John Harbaugh, it's hard. I mean they reports
[25:17] Speaker 2: Mike Tomind's making twenty five million dollars. Most human beings
[25:21] Speaker 2: no walk away from that. But he saw this team
[25:24] Speaker 2: a lot like the Saints. It's gonna get uglier before
[25:26] Speaker 2: it gets better. Yeah, what was the Rooney's quote, We
[25:30] Speaker 2: don't plan on a rebuilding. Well, bro, you might need
[25:32] Speaker 2: to like yeah, this is twenty twenty six. Check your roster.
[25:35] Speaker 2: You got problems. So I think Mike Tomlin if dan
[25:39] Speaker 2: Quinn is dan Quinn. You know, he's a great guy.
[25:43] Speaker 2: People love him. Is he missed and he's had a
[25:46] Speaker 2: good little run there with McCarthy. They had some really
[25:48] Speaker 2: good players there for a couple of years. I like,
[25:51] Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I don't know.
[25:54] Speaker 1: I think he's mid. I think that's fair. I think
[25:56] Speaker 1: he's a nice guy. I think he's pretty mid. I
[25:58] Speaker 1: think coaching is getting better, and I just even defensive coaches.
[26:02] Speaker 1: I don't put him in like a Mike McDonald class,
[26:05] Speaker 1: or a Robert Solid class, or a Demico Ryan's class.
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[27:50] Speaker 1: one eight hundred gambler Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. Well,
[28:00] Speaker 1: we have a new national champion in college football, third
[28:03] Speaker 1: straight year. It's a Big ten team. First it's Jim
[28:05] Speaker 1: Harbaugh and the Wolverines. Last year it's Ohio State. Punish
[28:08] Speaker 1: people in the playoff, and Miami and Ohio State both
[28:12] Speaker 1: were built to potentially beat Indiana. Neither could twenty seven
[28:17] Speaker 1: to twenty one, third straight Big Ten champion. I will
[28:20] Speaker 1: say I thought it would be a little like this,
[28:24] Speaker 1: a little more scoring than I thought. I thought it
[28:26] Speaker 1: would be the under but you know, be cheap, cheap,
[28:30] Speaker 1: a little chippy. Early against Mendoza, he got a late
[28:33] Speaker 1: hit and that they didn't call it. A couple of
[28:35] Speaker 1: little late hits, personal fouls not called. And I mean
[28:40] Speaker 1: make Indiana, you know, convert fourth downs and third downs,
[28:45] Speaker 1: and they did. That's what Indiana has been doing all year.
[28:47] Speaker 1: They did it against Iowa, they did it against Penn State,
[28:49] Speaker 1: they did against Ohio State, and they did it against
[28:52] Speaker 1: the Miami Hurricanes. I think Mendoza, I mean, if there
[28:55] Speaker 1: were any critics or doubters that he's the number one
[28:57] Speaker 1: pick John, I mean, he just that core or back
[29:00] Speaker 1: draw for a touchdown took a beating listen. I think
[29:06] Speaker 1: you know what I think it proves is that Miami
[29:08] Speaker 1: not only deserve to be in the College Football Playoff,
[29:11] Speaker 1: but Miami was the second best team. I mean, Ohio
[29:14] Speaker 1: State's offense couldn't generate you know, this kind of offensive explosion.
[29:19] Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean they were driving to
[29:22] Speaker 1: put their fourth touchdown up. So I mean, I think
[29:25] Speaker 1: I think we got the two best teams in the country.
[29:27] Speaker 1: And by the way, if you're an SEC fan, not
[29:30] Speaker 1: only should you be terrified of the gap that is
[29:33] Speaker 1: widening between the Big ten and the SEC. Miami has major,
[29:38] Speaker 1: major nil money. Broward County is a just an unbelievable
[29:43] Speaker 1: recruiting hotbed and crystal Ball maybe the best recruiter in
[29:47] Speaker 1: the country. So Miami and Indiana. Now Indiana's got Mark
[29:51] Speaker 1: Cuban's checkbook, John John Middlecoff joining us. It just it's
[29:56] Speaker 1: a those are Miami and Indiana, John are not going
[29:59] Speaker 1: any where.
[30:00] Speaker 2: Well, the one thing Mario's gonna do is building the trenches,
[30:04] Speaker 2: and that's gonna translate moving forward. I mean they had
[30:07] Speaker 2: early on in the game he went, this is gonna
[30:09] Speaker 2: be hard. This felt like an NFL game to me,
[30:12] Speaker 2: Like the stats like this wasn't gonna be either quarterbacks
[30:15] Speaker 2: not throwing for three hundred yards. It's it's gonna be
[30:18] Speaker 2: about getting big third and fours converted. The Mendoza in
[30:23] Speaker 2: that first couple series stretch when he got absolutely destroyed,
[30:29] Speaker 2: multiple free hits on sacks, hitting the face, I thought,
[30:33] Speaker 2: I can imagine Tom Brady up in the box looking
[30:35] Speaker 2: at his GM going that's the NFL right there, and
[30:38] Speaker 2: he hopped right back up, faced off. And then obviously
[30:40] Speaker 2: he played well throughout, but even Ohio State because I
[30:43] Speaker 2: started texting around. You know, Bain is viewed as a
[30:46] Speaker 2: top ten pick, but Messador he's twenty five, and I
[30:51] Speaker 2: was like, you know, teams, and it's like, well, he
[30:52] Speaker 2: might not go in the first round because he's older,
[30:54] Speaker 2: but he ain't gonna last far in the second round.
[30:56] Speaker 2: So they have two guys that were just coming their
[30:59] Speaker 2: d line and the other guys are really good. That
[31:02] Speaker 2: was a test for Indiana, the physicality, because one thing
[31:04] Speaker 2: Indiana's had is beside Ohio State, no one could match
[31:07] Speaker 2: their physicality. I'd argue, tell me, if you agree with this,
[31:11] Speaker 2: are they the best team? I'm saying team in college
[31:16] Speaker 2: or pro because they don't really have a weakness. Their
[31:18] Speaker 2: defense is great, their offense is very well rounded, their
[31:21] Speaker 2: special teams are fantastic.
[31:23] Speaker 1: I would say Seattle feels the same way as when
[31:26] Speaker 1: you can have great special teams. I think they said
[31:28] Speaker 1: that was the eighth blocked hunt by a Signetti team
[31:32] Speaker 1: at Indiana, So like, Seattle is rare where they don't
[31:35] Speaker 1: have a whole and they have elite special teams. That's Indiana.
[31:39] Speaker 3: So like that.
[31:39] Speaker 1: You don't get that usually at the college level, even
[31:41] Speaker 1: when you have great college programs, you don't spend any
[31:44] Speaker 1: you know, you're not spending nil money these days on
[31:46] Speaker 1: the special teams. I can't remember when Pete Carroll was
[31:49] Speaker 1: at USC they didn't even care about special teams. They
[31:51] Speaker 1: didn't even go for blocks. You know, they were just
[31:53] Speaker 1: gonna beat you on their units O and D, and
[31:56] Speaker 1: so I think I would say this about Indiana. They're
[32:02] Speaker 1: they were trailing the entire game. They felt like they
[32:04] Speaker 1: were coming from behind. Miami is physically. The way to
[32:07] Speaker 1: beat Indiana is what Ohio State and Miami have, which
[32:11] Speaker 1: is better than average college quarterback. Big time skill players
[32:15] Speaker 1: that can you know you don't. You can get over
[32:17] Speaker 1: the top. Fletcher the running back, Tony the receiver, you
[32:20] Speaker 1: can pop for big plays. You're not going to get
[32:22] Speaker 1: thirteen to fifteen play drives in Indiana and Ohio State
[32:26] Speaker 1: and Miami both had that. And then in tough physical
[32:28] Speaker 1: defenses that make Indiana get down to late third and
[32:31] Speaker 1: five and fourth and three because you can't give ma
[32:34] Speaker 1: any you can't. You can't win against Mendoza if it's
[32:38] Speaker 1: third and one, if it's second and four, you've got
[32:40] Speaker 1: to put him into third and fives, fourth and fourths.
[32:43] Speaker 1: You've got to make him earn it. But that's what
[32:45] Speaker 1: Indiana does. I mean, they're gutsy play calling, those sideline
[32:49] Speaker 1: fade patterns. They're just a really complete college team. And again,
[32:55] Speaker 1: this is what the sixtieth ranked recruiting classes John, They're
[32:59] Speaker 1: going to get top twenty classes now. Now they've got
[33:01] Speaker 1: Cuban's checkbook. So, I mean next year, Ohio State's loaded,
[33:06] Speaker 1: Michigan's gonna rebound with Witningham, They've got great offensive pieces.
[33:09] Speaker 1: Indiana's going nowhere. Oregon now with Dante Moore's a top
[33:13] Speaker 1: six program. USC and Washington are out of the rebuild stage.
[33:17] Speaker 1: They both have their quarterbacks returning and a lot of
[33:20] Speaker 1: nil money and a lot of players. Penn State with
[33:24] Speaker 1: Matt Campbell should be at least maybe they'll be somewhere
[33:27] Speaker 1: around the top twenty twenty five. I just think this
[33:31] Speaker 1: is I think the Big Ten now at the top
[33:33] Speaker 1: is the best conference hands down.
[33:35] Speaker 2: Well, and it's a coaching conference. What do you think
[33:38] Speaker 2: about it? Right Saban retires, you add Signetti, who immediately
[33:42] Speaker 2: is just an elite. I mean, he's he's right away.
[33:44] Speaker 2: I mean, there's not a better coach right now in
[33:46] Speaker 2: the country than him. I mean, look what he just
[33:48] Speaker 2: dated and Dan Lanning like they were Swiss cheese and
[33:52] Speaker 2: took on Miami and physically went toe to toe with
[33:55] Speaker 2: them and obviously beat Ryan Day. So he's you got
[33:58] Speaker 2: to give him for them, you know, living in the moment,
[34:00] Speaker 2: the best coach in the country. The money aspect in
[34:03] Speaker 2: the transfer portal advantage for them, I mean, Signetti, I
[34:07] Speaker 2: was reading, I don't know that much about the transfer portal,
[34:09] Speaker 2: had a great transfer portal, landed a quarterback, Like they're
[34:13] Speaker 2: not only not going away, like they're gonna view themselves
[34:16] Speaker 2: as a playoff team again next year.
[34:18] Speaker 3: Like this is switched.
[34:19] Speaker 2: This isn't you know? It used to be pre recruiting
[34:21] Speaker 2: if a team had a great year basketball or football
[34:24] Speaker 2: that got kind of a one year wonder. Well, one
[34:26] Speaker 2: year wonders are over. If you have the money, you
[34:29] Speaker 2: just keep it rolling, you keep it flowing.
[34:30] Speaker 1: That's right.
[34:31] Speaker 2: So and the other advantage he has like his coordinators
[34:33] Speaker 2: aren't going anywhere, well, I mean, what do they really
[34:35] Speaker 2: hang their hat on, because beside Mendoza, Miami had way
[34:39] Speaker 2: more prospects in the top one hundred of this upcoming
[34:42] Speaker 2: draft in Indiana. They're the best coach team even tonight.
[34:45] Speaker 2: You just saw even when their plays didn't hit, one
[34:47] Speaker 2: time one of their wide receivers got held. It was
[34:49] Speaker 2: a perfect route. They find a weakness, like the weakness
[34:52] Speaker 2: of Miami clearly is a secondary, and they found the
[34:54] Speaker 2: weak link on that secondary twenty four and they were
[34:56] Speaker 2: just going after him, and they were going after That's
[34:59] Speaker 2: what NFL cort when they find a week link. You've
[35:02] Speaker 2: seen it with Ben Johnson, with Kyle sy and an
[35:03] Speaker 2: Sean mcvagh and they attack.
[35:06] Speaker 1: Well, what is happening in America? The the elite one
[35:10] Speaker 1: percent have separated. The Dow is almost at fifty thousand,
[35:14] Speaker 1: So again, what would put college football in the crosshairs
[35:19] Speaker 1: of trouble. It's just like our national debt. You know why,
[35:23] Speaker 1: our national debt. We talk about it a lot, but
[35:25] Speaker 1: we're not in danger because our economy keeps growing sour
[35:30] Speaker 1: as our economy grow, That's the only way Elon must know.
[35:33] Speaker 1: Elon must talks about this regularly. The debt becomes less
[35:36] Speaker 1: relevant if your economy grows. The debt's a bigger problem
[35:38] Speaker 1: in Europe because their economy is not growing at the
[35:40] Speaker 1: pace of America's. According to all the economists, Well, it's
[35:43] Speaker 1: the same in the nil It's very easy for a
[35:45] Speaker 1: guy to rationalize a six million dollar check to his
[35:48] Speaker 1: locan university if things are humming in the economy. So
[35:52] Speaker 1: if the economy crashed, that's what I think when college
[35:55] Speaker 1: football people would say, Okay, I'm not we're taking two
[35:58] Speaker 1: years off. I'm not writing you four million dollars in checks.
[36:01] Speaker 1: So even for billionaires, a lot of it is what's
[36:04] Speaker 1: the current state of the economy. So for the rich
[36:06] Speaker 1: right now, not middle class, not normal people, but for
[36:08] Speaker 1: the rich, they've separated. Things are good, things are hot.
[36:13] Speaker 1: And that's about as deep into the economy as John
[36:16] Speaker 1: and I'll ever go, because I certainly don't know what
[36:18] Speaker 1: I'm talking about, but I think a big picture and
[36:21] Speaker 1: all of that that is true.
[36:23] Speaker 2: I mean, it's just those guys are more willing. They've
[36:25] Speaker 2: never had more money, and it keeps giving these checks.
[36:29] Speaker 2: But if it does flip, and what's the first thing
[36:31] Speaker 2: to go the second home, the country club membership, that's
[36:34] Speaker 2: where this time. This is funny right now, and if
[36:37] Speaker 2: you're doing well, and it's probably flowing, I mean, Indiana,
[36:40] Speaker 2: the amount of booster money they are going to get
[36:42] Speaker 2: in the next six months is going to be historic.
[36:45] Speaker 1: Well, and here's the other thing baseball talks about this.
[36:48] Speaker 1: This is why I keep saying, you can tell me
[36:50] Speaker 1: college football is in trouble. The ratings for tonight's game
[36:53] Speaker 1: are going to be massive. ESPN and Fox have great
[36:56] Speaker 1: college football deals. They're making a lot of money on it.
[36:59] Speaker 1: The tendants has been great. Remember there was a decline
[37:02] Speaker 1: in ratings and attendants during the Alabama dynasty at the
[37:05] Speaker 1: end the last five years. That was the problem. The
[37:08] Speaker 1: sport became incredibly regional. Well, it's not regional. The country
[37:12] Speaker 1: was watching Miami in Indiana, so Indiana Boom.
[37:16] Speaker 3: Huge fans.
[37:16] Speaker 1: SEC fans were obviously watching because Big Ten's there, villain Miami.
[37:21] Speaker 1: You've got the ACC watching, and I think West Coast people,
[37:24] Speaker 1: I've said this is growing up on the West Coast,
[37:26] Speaker 1: you always watched Big ten football because they were in
[37:28] Speaker 1: the Rose Bowl. So I've always been a Big ten fan.
[37:30] Speaker 1: Even if I was a Husky or a Duck or
[37:32] Speaker 1: a Trojan, I was always a big I watched everybody
[37:34] Speaker 1: in the Big Ten. But I love the SEC as well.
[37:37] Speaker 2: I didn't really start watching the SEC till Nick Saban
[37:39] Speaker 2: really took it to another level. Most of my life.
[37:42] Speaker 2: In the nineties, SEC didn't feel as popular. It was
[37:45] Speaker 2: regionalized forward that you watched Michigan football, whatever, Ohio State
[37:49] Speaker 2: football much more often than you ever did beside maybe
[37:52] Speaker 2: like a big Florida Georgia game. You weren't watching random
[37:55] Speaker 2: SEC games. And obviously the TV has expanded that. But
[37:58] Speaker 2: the Big Ten feels like they're pretty good spy right now.
[38:01] Speaker 1: They are so but I think about this all the time.
[38:04] Speaker 1: People complain about baseball and they say, oh, Kyle Tucker
[38:07] Speaker 1: went to the Dodgers. Well, baseball was in a big
[38:12] Speaker 1: was in a really dry spot about three years ago. Okay,
[38:15] Speaker 1: attendants was going down for three straight years. TV ratings
[38:18] Speaker 1: were going down for fifteen and then Rob Manford said, pitchclocked, speed,
[38:22] Speaker 1: the game up, defensive shift, no pitcher's hitting. All of
[38:27] Speaker 1: a sudden, you look up and you're like, oh, there's
[38:28] Speaker 1: more hits, there's more action, there's more runs. O TODDI
[38:31] Speaker 1: goes Angels Dodgers, And over the course of the last
[38:34] Speaker 1: couple of weeks the Dodgers have gotten better. The Cubs
[38:37] Speaker 1: added Bregman at third, Cabrera, the pitcher Yankees Weathers throwing
[38:41] Speaker 1: another good arm the Yankees, the Cubs, the Dodgers all
[38:46] Speaker 1: got better. Well, I'm sorry. That's not bad for baseball.
[38:49] Speaker 1: The nil and the transfer portal is not bad for
[38:52] Speaker 1: college football. When Miami and the Big tenor humming in
[38:56] Speaker 1: the Texas schools are humming and Notre Dame is high, folks,
[39:01] Speaker 1: college football is in a great spot. This sport's never
[39:05] Speaker 1: been about perdue. Okay, the bottom line, it's always been
[39:09] Speaker 1: top heavy. Right now, you've got three Texas schools hum
[39:13] Speaker 1: in Miami, Notre Dame, Big ten in the sects is
[39:16] Speaker 1: still wildly popular. And I've said this about baseball, Well
[39:20] Speaker 1: what about the little guy Mariners, Guardians, Brewers all great
[39:25] Speaker 1: last year? By the way, the Astros, if they're healthy,
[39:29] Speaker 1: with the Cubs, with the Dodgers, with the Padres, with
[39:31] Speaker 1: the Phillies, with the Yankees and the Mets should be okay,
[39:34] Speaker 1: we'll all be viable. The Pittsburgh Pirates weren't winning twenty
[39:37] Speaker 1: five years ago. They're not winning now. Nobody cares. So
[39:41] Speaker 1: Usually when you have these big changes and it feels
[39:44] Speaker 1: like there's a separation, John, there's a separation in everything.
[39:49] Speaker 1: You know, Tesla's separated from you know, some automotive company.
[39:52] Speaker 1: There's a big separation in banking in college football. If
[39:56] Speaker 1: you look at the country right now, I was looking
[39:58] Speaker 1: at a baseball salary gap. In baseball. Saint Louis right
[40:01] Speaker 1: now is a tiny market. They've lost fifteen fortune five
[40:05] Speaker 1: hundred companies in the last you know, thirty years. Saint
[40:08] Speaker 1: Louis might as well have you know, they're a little
[40:11] Speaker 1: small fry. They weren't thirty years ago. That's the reality
[40:13] Speaker 1: of America. The coasts, you know, Florida, Miami, by the way,
[40:17] Speaker 1: has become a tech center. Miami's got a lot of
[40:19] Speaker 1: money right now. Part of it is Miami's economy now
[40:22] Speaker 1: is a big boy economy. It wasn't thirty years ago.
[40:24] Speaker 1: It wasn't twenty years ago.
[40:26] Speaker 3: It is now.
[40:27] Speaker 1: So I don't worry about the sport. I don't worry
[40:29] Speaker 1: about baseball. I don't worry about college football. Look at
[40:33] Speaker 1: the ratings, look at the attendance, look at the relevance,
[40:37] Speaker 1: look at the revenue. College football's on fire. I don't
[40:40] Speaker 1: remember in the last twenty years caring more about college football.
[40:44] Speaker 1: Every time I turn a game on John it's like
[40:46] Speaker 1: the NFL and watching this weekend the weather's horrible. You
[40:49] Speaker 1: can't find a seat in any of these games. There's
[40:52] Speaker 1: not a seat available in any of these games. When
[40:55] Speaker 1: they show these panoramic views of the stadium.
[40:59] Speaker 2: They did get lucky that the Bears and the Patriots,
[41:03] Speaker 2: the Eagles have this, Seattle has this. Are collegiate like
[41:06] Speaker 2: atmospheres and collegiate like fan bases, and there are some
[41:09] Speaker 2: of the rare fan bases that does have a pageantry
[41:13] Speaker 2: a little bit like some of these college I mean
[41:15] Speaker 2: the Bears, that was fun. And I think the NFL,
[41:18] Speaker 2: I'm with you, you turn on it's we talked about
[41:21] Speaker 2: the last seven degrees. The Patriot game shirt didn't look warm.
[41:24] Speaker 2: There ain't there ain't a seat. You couldn't even get one.
[41:27] Speaker 2: If you tried one, they'd beat you up. Two it
[41:30] Speaker 2: does not even available. And I mean look at the
[41:32] Speaker 2: gating prices tonight. I mean the vibe these games, they
[41:35] Speaker 2: feel like a really big deal. It's a little foam
[41:37] Speaker 2: mo action to the sport people. Well, and one thing
[41:40] Speaker 2: football really benefits from is the the inventories just a
[41:44] Speaker 2: lot smaller than these other sports. I mean, if you
[41:46] Speaker 2: don't watch an NBA game, you talked about sports for
[41:48] Speaker 2: a living if you miss a couple of weeks, like
[41:50] Speaker 2: you ain't missing anything right now, you're just not. But
[41:52] Speaker 2: in football, every game kind of matters. In the playoffs,
[41:56] Speaker 2: they're not a series. I remember, I remember a couple
[41:58] Speaker 2: of years ago the Warriors played Memphis in the second round.
[42:00] Speaker 2: They lost a game by fifty points in a playoff series.
[42:02] Speaker 2: It didn't even matter. I mean the game later they win,
[42:04] Speaker 2: they're off to the next round. And football every same
[42:07] Speaker 2: with tonight. Every snap matters, every drive matters. I mean,
[42:10] Speaker 2: look at Josh Allen's and tears. He knows like it
[42:13] Speaker 2: felt like he's like his career's over something after losing
[42:16] Speaker 2: the divisional round playoff game. There is just an intensity
[42:19] Speaker 2: to football that I listen. It's not proud to say this,
[42:23] Speaker 2: but the amount of time we spend on our phone,
[42:25] Speaker 2: the way we're wired now, and the urgency to everything.
[42:28] Speaker 2: Football just benefits from that immediately to the way society
[42:32] Speaker 2: is kind of built. You know, we're not a patient
[42:34] Speaker 2: place at all anymore. And the NFL is not patient either.
[42:37] Speaker 2: I mean, look what are their ten job openings, you
[42:39] Speaker 2: know in the NFL. Look at college football this year,
[42:42] Speaker 2: four or five games in you weren't winning Brian Kelly,
[42:45] Speaker 2: James Franklin. There's just so much money and fans like that,
[42:48] Speaker 2: like urgency, let's go next guy, even if it's I mean,
[42:51] Speaker 2: we'll find out the bills. I mean, if it's going
[42:53] Speaker 2: to work out who they're gonna hire. But I think
[42:55] Speaker 2: that adds a lot of juice to all this thing.
[43:06] Speaker 1: Well, I brought him on the herd. He won our
[43:07] Speaker 1: first ever Big Jay Journalism Award. I think we retired
[43:11] Speaker 1: it after he won it. We've never handed out a second.
[43:13] Speaker 1: He is the founder of Go Long, one of the
[43:15] Speaker 1: first guys in sports to really jump over to substack
[43:18] Speaker 1: and be his own man. I love that about him
[43:21] Speaker 1: and one of the teams that he has really been
[43:24] Speaker 1: really ground zero, a foundational reporter, and has pushedback on
[43:30] Speaker 1: this franchise many times. They have had a wild last
[43:33] Speaker 1: four weeks. You don't think of Buffalo and controversy. You
[43:37] Speaker 1: think of New York and controversy in Philadelphia and Boston.
[43:41] Speaker 1: But Buffalo's just, you know, it's quiet.
[43:43] Speaker 3: It's upstate.
[43:45] Speaker 1: So let's start with the press conference today where Terry,
[43:48] Speaker 1: the owner of Bagula, basically calls out Keon Coleman. I
[43:56] Speaker 1: just kept thinking, man, for a billionaire, that's not a
[43:58] Speaker 1: ton of self awareness. You were at the press conference. Basically,
[44:02] Speaker 1: he was defending Billy Bean, who was sitting next to Hi,
[44:05] Speaker 1: who's taking a ton of criticism for his draft record,
[44:08] Speaker 1: which is not stellar. Okay, let's start with a press conference.
[44:13] Speaker 1: Was it awkward when Terry went off script to defend
[44:16] Speaker 1: Billy Bean?
[44:17] Speaker 3: You know it. It was uncomfortable. It was awkward.
[44:23] Speaker 4: It was something that you never see in sports, right, owners,
[44:27] Speaker 4: general manager's, head coaches. They never bring you inside publicly
[44:31] Speaker 4: like that and say no, this person wanted that player.
[44:34] Speaker 3: That person wanted that player.
[44:35] Speaker 4: I'll be honest, Colin. I loved the honesty. I love
[44:39] Speaker 4: the transparency.
[44:40] Speaker 3: I'm not in PR.
[44:42] Speaker 4: It probably isn't the best PR move because that's pretty avoidable.
[44:47] Speaker 3: If you're the Buffalo Bills, like you just don't need
[44:49] Speaker 3: to bring that up.
[44:49] Speaker 4: If you want that information out there, there's people like
[44:52] Speaker 4: me you can tell off the record.
[44:54] Speaker 3: All these people in all sports know that. But to me,
[44:58] Speaker 3: what I kept thinking of is, all right, the.
[45:00] Speaker 4: One person who has control over this is Keon Coleman.
[45:03] Speaker 4: The only reason he's being framed as a bust is
[45:08] Speaker 4: because he has been a bust two years in.
[45:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he's showing up late and meetings twice.
[45:13] Speaker 3: He's getting into Sean McDermott's doghouse. I will say this.
[45:17] Speaker 4: I was told it wasn't necessarily Sean McDermott who drafted
[45:20] Speaker 4: Keon Coleman.
[45:21] Speaker 3: It was coaches on the staff.
[45:22] Speaker 4: But yeah, Brandon Bean, it puts him in a tough
[45:25] Speaker 4: spot where he's sitting.
[45:26] Speaker 3: There like, all right, well we're going into year three.
[45:30] Speaker 4: With this guy. We don't want to give up on
[45:31] Speaker 4: this guy. And he later, for you know, made a
[45:34] Speaker 4: point to say, look, I drafted him. We all drafted him.
[45:36] Speaker 4: At that point, it's kind of out there. But to me,
[45:38] Speaker 4: you know what, this press conference was colin truth bombs
[45:42] Speaker 4: left and right, and the truth hurts for for Keon Coleman,
[45:46] Speaker 4: I'm sorry, feelings are hurt more production Sean McDermott.
[45:51] Speaker 3: They praised him for his nine years of service.
[45:53] Speaker 4: At the end of the day, it's been a decade
[45:55] Speaker 4: with arguably the best player in the league, and what
[45:58] Speaker 4: do you have to show for it? To me, that
[45:59] Speaker 4: was the big take away from this press conference. At
[46:01] Speaker 4: one point, Terry Pogula is looking at all of us
[46:05] Speaker 4: and basically looking to the entire city at Buffalo, say
[46:08] Speaker 4: it is is seven years in a row of making
[46:11] Speaker 4: the playoffs?
[46:11] Speaker 3: Is that success? Is that success? And no Super Bowl appearance?
[46:16] Speaker 4: He's basically asking everybody, if you want to get to
[46:18] Speaker 4: the playoffs and lose, We've done that.
[46:21] Speaker 3: Do we want to win a Super Bowl? Do we
[46:23] Speaker 3: want something more? Then you gotta move on?
[46:26] Speaker 4: Look, I mean, yeah, one stat I'll give you two
[46:29] Speaker 4: is I I've been repeating it non stop.
[46:31] Speaker 3: It go along, but teams.
[46:33] Speaker 4: Move on from head coaches at this point for a reason.
[46:36] Speaker 4: You know, he's entered in year ten. There's only been
[46:40] Speaker 4: three head coaches really two who have won their first
[46:43] Speaker 4: Super Bowl in year nine or beyond with that team,
[46:48] Speaker 4: Bill Kauer, Tom Landry, Hank Stran and Hank Stram won
[46:52] Speaker 4: an AFL title before that. So you know the list
[46:55] Speaker 4: of the Marty Schottenheimers and Marvin Lewis's and Bart Stars
[46:58] Speaker 4: and Wayne Fonce and mar Levies, it's much much longer.
[47:02] Speaker 3: It was overdue if you.
[47:03] Speaker 1: Ask me, Yeah, let's let's there was a feeling in Buffalo.
[47:09] Speaker 1: And I've said this with with Brandon and Bean, I
[47:13] Speaker 1: did some sourcing on it. I called a couple of gms,
[47:15] Speaker 1: I respect, I said, what do you what do you
[47:18] Speaker 1: know about him? Because I don't know him, nor do
[47:20] Speaker 1: I have any even a text relationship. And they said,
[47:23] Speaker 1: he's really good with the cap. He's not necessarily known
[47:26] Speaker 1: as an elite John Snyder level, you know, like what
[47:29] Speaker 1: you would say personnel guy doesn't mean he can't do it.
[47:33] Speaker 1: For the record, it's really hard. Drafting is really hard.
[47:38] Speaker 1: The best whiff I mean, you know the rams of
[47:41] Speaker 1: whift on second rounders the Niners have. It's hard. So
[47:45] Speaker 1: there is no there's no exact science to guessing how
[47:47] Speaker 1: a twenty two year old will work. You, I mean,
[47:49] Speaker 1: Keon Coleman, Florida to Buffalo, just the weather alone, you know,
[47:54] Speaker 1: it's like, wow, that's a different probably never been to
[47:57] Speaker 1: Buffalo before, right, like a lot of these kids. But
[48:00] Speaker 1: what is the sense Is it fair to say, since
[48:05] Speaker 1: Josh Allen fifty five draft picks two Pro bowlers, is
[48:09] Speaker 1: it fair? Is that a fair criticism that he has
[48:11] Speaker 1: struggled in the draft, or do you see personnel as
[48:15] Speaker 1: he's been reasonably solid like most gms hit some missiles.
[48:20] Speaker 4: You know what, that's a great question because I think
[48:23] Speaker 4: everybody's asking that same exact question right now, because who's
[48:27] Speaker 4: that faultier, right? Is it the head coach or the
[48:30] Speaker 4: GM for why this team forget winning a.
[48:33] Speaker 3: Super Bowl hasn't gotten to his Super Bowl? Right now?
[48:35] Speaker 4: No head coach has won more playoff games without a
[48:38] Speaker 4: super Bowl appearance than Sean McDermott eight. No quarterback has
[48:42] Speaker 4: won more playoff games without a super Bowl appearance than
[48:44] Speaker 4: Josh Allen eight.
[48:45] Speaker 3: So, like, who's that faultier?
[48:48] Speaker 4: People that I talked to around the league, they believe
[48:51] Speaker 4: this has been a championship roster the year in a
[48:54] Speaker 4: year out that.
[48:54] Speaker 3: They should have one in twenty twenty one.
[48:57] Speaker 4: Thirteen seconds And we can get into that because I
[48:59] Speaker 4: really do believe that was the moment that probably broke
[49:02] Speaker 4: the psychology of the Buffalo Bills under Sean McDermott. Yeah,
[49:06] Speaker 4: And I mean, you've got seasons other than that you
[49:09] Speaker 4: can point to and say that they had enough talent
[49:11] Speaker 4: to win it all. And I think, look, Brandon Bean
[49:15] Speaker 4: was the driving force behind the move up the draft
[49:17] Speaker 4: board for Josh Allen, So Terry Pogula remembers that, and
[49:21] Speaker 4: then if you fast forward to this year, you've got
[49:22] Speaker 4: the rating MVP.
[49:24] Speaker 3: You've got the NFL's leading rusher and James Cook.
[49:27] Speaker 4: You've got a top five offensive line and the defense. Right,
[49:31] Speaker 4: you've got a defensive minded head coach and Sean McDermott.
[49:34] Speaker 4: And you look at these playoff losses and the last
[49:36] Speaker 4: six playoff losses, and we could really kind of point
[49:39] Speaker 4: to that as when the Bills have been legitimate Super
[49:42] Speaker 4: Bowl contenders, right, because they get the Jacksonville in twenty seventeen,
[49:45] Speaker 4: they had the drought twenty nineteen, Josh Allen's in a
[49:48] Speaker 4: year two they lost in the wildcard of the Texans
[49:50] Speaker 4: in overtime, blew at sixteen to nothing.
[49:52] Speaker 3: Leave that game.
[49:53] Speaker 4: But let's look at those six with a defensive minded
[49:56] Speaker 4: head coach, Colin fifty two non kneel down drives in
[50:00] Speaker 4: those six games against what you've got three mahomes, one borrow,
[50:06] Speaker 4: one bow knicks.
[50:07] Speaker 3: Okay, fifty two to nine meal down drives.
[50:08] Speaker 4: They've allowed twenty five touchdowns, thirteen field goals, forced only
[50:12] Speaker 4: twelve punts.
[50:13] Speaker 3: There's one missed field goal in there.
[50:14] Speaker 4: They've created three turnovers, allowing one hundred and ninety nine points.
[50:20] Speaker 4: That's three point eighty three points per drive. I believe
[50:23] Speaker 4: that's more than the two thousand and seven Patriots average
[50:25] Speaker 4: per drive with a defensive minded head coach. So Brandon
[50:29] Speaker 4: Bean's thinking, Okay, it was defense again in the AFC
[50:32] Speaker 4: Championship game last year, Right, Josh Allen did enough. The
[50:35] Speaker 4: Bills offense did enough at Arrowhead, and a Chiefs offense
[50:39] Speaker 4: that was average to above average the last season and
[50:43] Speaker 4: a half hung thirty two on you. So he goes
[50:46] Speaker 4: out and signs Bosa, Lario, Goojobi, Michael Hoyt and drafts
[50:50] Speaker 4: five defensive players in a row, like, here's more options
[50:52] Speaker 4: for you, Sean McDermott.
[50:54] Speaker 3: Let's get a stop, right, Let's let's get one stop.
[50:57] Speaker 3: You get to Denver.
[50:58] Speaker 4: Yes, Josh Allen had four turtle the crazy play at
[51:01] Speaker 4: the end of the half and he's hit for the
[51:02] Speaker 4: blind side, but yes, he had four turnovers. Even then,
[51:06] Speaker 4: they almost became the second road playoff team ever to overcome.
[51:10] Speaker 3: A minus three tourner over differential to win. I think
[51:13] Speaker 3: it was one.
[51:13] Speaker 4: They were one in eighty five going into this game
[51:15] Speaker 4: because of Allen, because of the offense, and then two
[51:18] Speaker 4: minutes left, third and eleven, it looks like Shawn's gonna
[51:21] Speaker 4: send the Dogs seven at the line of scrimmage. Here's
[51:23] Speaker 4: the moment he's finally going to be aggressive and three
[51:26] Speaker 4: of them back off. Bonick hits Courtland Sutton for a
[51:28] Speaker 4: first down. Four plays later, Trenevius Waite gets hurt. He's out.
[51:33] Speaker 4: Sean Payton smells blood. Dan Jackson ice cold out the sideline.
[51:37] Speaker 4: You leave him one on one on the outside. What
[51:40] Speaker 4: do you think Sean Payton's gonna do. He did the
[51:42] Speaker 4: same thing earlier in the game when Cam Lewis the safety,
[51:45] Speaker 4: got hurt and Darnault Savage.
[51:47] Speaker 3: Your fifth or six safeties on the field.
[51:49] Speaker 4: A bust from Green Bay shouldn't be in that spot,
[51:52] Speaker 4: but Peyton saw it and he took advantage. So Sean
[51:54] Speaker 4: McDermott failed to learn his lesson in the game. Look,
[51:57] Speaker 4: if you've got a defensive mind, a head coach, these
[51:59] Speaker 4: are the little things you got to do. And I
[52:02] Speaker 4: think that Terry Pagoula is looking at these moments and
[52:06] Speaker 4: he's looking at the eyes of his players in the
[52:07] Speaker 4: locker room. He talked about this today and he sees
[52:11] Speaker 4: how despondent, how teary eye. Josh Allen Is, Dion Dawkins,
[52:15] Speaker 4: everybody he's saying, Man, we can't keep doing this year
[52:18] Speaker 4: to year like this team has planted.
[52:20] Speaker 3: We got to do something.
[52:22] Speaker 4: And I get the debate, but he had decided that
[52:24] Speaker 4: it was Sean mcdermot's fault, not Brandon Bean.
[52:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. I think I think, you know,
[52:32] Speaker 1: here's where I'll defend Brandon Bean. I think they're offensive
[52:35] Speaker 1: personnels pretty good. They have an excellent slot receiver, maybe
[52:38] Speaker 1: not Lad McConkey, but darn good starback, star left tackle,
[52:43] Speaker 1: great running back on line, more than solid, multiple tight ends,
[52:47] Speaker 1: Dawson Knox obviously Dalton kincaid. So in keyon Coleman. I
[52:53] Speaker 1: didn't have a problem with a draft pick because I
[52:55] Speaker 1: saw him in college and I thought he was rangy
[52:56] Speaker 1: and tall. Receivers Number one last years number one position,
[53:01] Speaker 1: first round bust is wide receiver. He's not the first
[53:04] Speaker 1: Belichick couldn't draft one in the first round. Chad Jackson,
[53:07] Speaker 1: Nikhil Harry, Nikhil Henry from Arizona State couldn't draft one
[53:11] Speaker 1: to save his life. So by the way, Andy Reid, Brute,
[53:15] Speaker 1: Brett Veach, great great guys, Sky Moore, Miss Rashee, Rice
[53:21] Speaker 1: always in trouble, Xavier Worthy bottom first. Yeah, So like
[53:26] Speaker 1: I do think Brandon Bean deserves credit for They've done
[53:29] Speaker 1: a pretty damn good job on offense, a pretty good group,
[53:32] Speaker 1: and I think an offensive coach like Brian Daboll would
[53:35] Speaker 1: squeeze even more juice out of that group. So let's
[53:38] Speaker 1: pivot to that. Is Dave all the front runner.
[53:41] Speaker 4: He'll definitely be in the conversation. And I love this.
[53:44] Speaker 4: I love talking Brian Dable because it is fascinating. He
[53:48] Speaker 4: was like a father figure for Josh Allen here. They
[53:51] Speaker 4: were unbelievably close. When I did that three part.
[53:54] Speaker 1: Were all over this.
[53:55] Speaker 4: Yeah, we probably talked about it on the Herd then, right,
[53:59] Speaker 4: I mean we're all The nine to eleven speech that
[54:01] Speaker 4: mcdermoy that gave that gate got a lot of headlines,
[54:03] Speaker 4: but really I thought one of the more fascinating nuggets
[54:07] Speaker 4: was in part three of that series where I had
[54:08] Speaker 4: heard from veterans on that team and coaches who repeated
[54:13] Speaker 4: just how close Josh Allen was to Brian Dable on
[54:17] Speaker 4: the field.
[54:18] Speaker 3: You know, Josh Allity, he's.
[54:19] Speaker 4: A farm boy from Fireball California, right, and no star
[54:24] Speaker 4: recruit had to earn everything. He's okay with a coach
[54:28] Speaker 4: yelling in his year hole like Brian Dabele would. I
[54:30] Speaker 4: could picture him on the sideline after an interception in
[54:33] Speaker 4: year two against the Patriots, Stables losing his mind.
[54:35] Speaker 3: Alan took the hard coaching did something with it.
[54:39] Speaker 4: Dabel had such an effect on him as a young player,
[54:42] Speaker 4: but he got off the field. I mean they were
[54:43] Speaker 4: hanging out all the time. It was a special relationship.
[54:46] Speaker 4: So there was one player And I asked, this is
[54:49] Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, like at that point Dables with the
[54:52] Speaker 4: New York Giants, obviously, like, did the.
[54:54] Speaker 3: Bills keep the right coach?
[54:57] Speaker 4: And he paused for quite literally thirteen seconds, ironically enough,
[55:02] Speaker 4: and she goes, does that answer your question? I mean
[55:05] Speaker 4: there's people who think that the Bills could have multiple
[55:07] Speaker 4: super Bowls right now if Dabele and Allen stayed together.
[55:10] Speaker 4: And look, josh Adlen is gonna be in these interviews
[55:12] Speaker 4: with the head coaches. And I'm not not Dable. I
[55:16] Speaker 4: actually caught up with a coach who might be in
[55:18] Speaker 4: the running for this job recently.
[55:21] Speaker 3: And he you know, we'll see if he's he's of
[55:23] Speaker 3: interest too.
[55:24] Speaker 4: There's gonna be a lot of people that want this
[55:26] Speaker 4: job when it comes to Dable, though all signs would
[55:29] Speaker 4: point to him be in the front runner for all
[55:31] Speaker 4: those reasons. But I also think of this colin Brian
[55:34] Speaker 4: Brandon Bean is tight with Joe Shane. Joe Shane was
[55:37] Speaker 4: here in Buffalo, and Joe Shane knows firsthand what went
[55:41] Speaker 4: down with the Giants, right, he probably knows all the
[55:43] Speaker 4: good that comes with Dable and maybe some of the
[55:46] Speaker 4: disorganization behind the scenes that came with Dable. You can
[55:48] Speaker 4: learn from that stuff, Like I love it when teams
[55:51] Speaker 4: give a give a head coach a second chance, like
[55:53] Speaker 4: you should be able to learn from what went wrong.
[55:56] Speaker 3: So he absolutely could.
[55:59] Speaker 4: That's what has to kind of parse through and figure
[56:01] Speaker 4: out what went wrong and would he do better the
[56:05] Speaker 4: second time around, Because being an NFL head coaches it's
[56:09] Speaker 4: more than just coaching quarterbacks and having a relationship with
[56:12] Speaker 4: Josh Hell, which is unbelievably important. There's game management stuff
[56:16] Speaker 4: which Dable struggled with with the Giants. Obviously, interpersonal relationships
[56:20] Speaker 4: behind the scenes, right he famously classed with Win Martindale.
[56:23] Speaker 4: So I think that's the kind of stuff that probably
[56:24] Speaker 4: they're gonna ask Brian Dable in this interview when they
[56:27] Speaker 4: have him been.
[56:29] Speaker 1: You know, I've defended Brian Dable because coaching in New
[56:33] Speaker 1: York is hard. Coaching in New York having to take
[56:37] Speaker 1: Dave Gettleman's guide, Daniel Jones and win is hard. The
[56:43] Speaker 1: New York media is multifaceted, multi personality, very uber competitive.
[56:49] Speaker 1: And I said to Day on the Herd, I said,
[56:50] Speaker 1: you know, Buffalo is different. I mean, you have real
[56:53] Speaker 1: pros in the media. I'm not disparaging anybody now, a
[56:56] Speaker 1: lot of good radio TV people up there. Buffalo's always
[56:59] Speaker 1: played bigger than it is as a market. Always reminds me.
[57:02] Speaker 1: I don't know why I think of this as Salt
[57:04] Speaker 1: Lake City media. Buffalo media feel much bigger than they are.
[57:07] Speaker 1: A lot of pros. People just want to live in
[57:08] Speaker 1: Salt Lake City and ski and people love living in
[57:11] Speaker 1: Buffalo because it's a wonderful place to live. But I
[57:19] Speaker 1: I guess when I look at Brian Dable, who's succeeded
[57:26] Speaker 1: in New York, even Conflin at the end struggled. Whereas
[57:31] Speaker 1: I really like the ownership of Buffalo, I think Brandon
[57:35] Speaker 1: Bean realizes a lot of people have the microscope on
[57:39] Speaker 1: him now, and so the Buffalo media and I really respected,
[57:47] Speaker 1: this has been hard on Bean, and tomorrow's columns on
[57:54] Speaker 1: this press conference will be intense. What is the relateationship
[58:01] Speaker 1: Pagoula Bean fans media today? Because usually when you get
[58:06] Speaker 1: a market the size of Buffalo or Baltimore, the media
[58:09] Speaker 1: is not antagonistic. But it does feel like Baltimore Buffalo's
[58:14] Speaker 1: media feels almost a responsibility. They know they're in the
[58:17] Speaker 1: national spotlight and they've sharpened the saw. It feels like
[58:23] Speaker 1: I mean Bean's radio appearance, I think on WGR, I
[58:26] Speaker 1: read the columns. I mean, is it as tense as
[58:30] Speaker 1: it sounds?
[58:32] Speaker 4: It was tense today, Colin. There's no way around it.
[58:35] Speaker 4: They asked I was there. I wasn't able to get
[58:38] Speaker 4: a question in. It was hard to get a question
[58:41] Speaker 4: in because it was an opportunity to ask about the
[58:45] Speaker 4: firing of head coach, which hasn't happened here in Western
[58:48] Speaker 4: New York in nearly a decade.
[58:50] Speaker 3: They've been winning division titles.
[58:53] Speaker 4: Sean McDermott cleaned up the Rex Ryan mess, and it
[58:57] Speaker 4: was a mess. It was worse than you can imagine.
[59:00] Speaker 4: He deserves all the credit for that. I mean, I
[59:02] Speaker 4: think he he's a free agent head coach right now.
[59:04] Speaker 4: If you wanted to clean up the Cleveland Browns or
[59:07] Speaker 4: a team like that, he could do it.
[59:09] Speaker 3: That's what Sean McDermott does really well.
[59:12] Speaker 4: But yeah, to answer your question, people are ready to
[59:15] Speaker 4: ask Brandon beat some hard questions. I think it's interesting,
[59:19] Speaker 4: you know, Sean McDermott really did ingratiate himself to the
[59:23] Speaker 4: community this past year in a way that he hasn't
[59:27] Speaker 4: most of his tenure. He has been a little standoffish,
[59:31] Speaker 4: not doing much media beyond press conferences, kind of you know,
[59:35] Speaker 4: a little colder, a little more aloof and just.
[59:39] Speaker 3: Didn't want to play that game really.
[59:41] Speaker 4: And then recently, even after I did that series, I
[59:43] Speaker 4: was welcome back in the building. I sat down with
[59:45] Speaker 4: Sean at the combine, we talked about it, got a credential.
[59:49] Speaker 4: Next thing, I know, into the playoffs in twenty twenty four,
[59:51] Speaker 4: I'm in his office. We're talking for an hour about
[59:53] Speaker 4: his evolution as a coach. I mean, he definitely made
[59:56] Speaker 4: a concerted effort to get his personality out there. Dan
[1:00:00] Speaker 4: Pompey at The Athletic and excellent profile on Sean McDermott recently.
[1:00:05] Speaker 3: I think through all that, you.
[1:00:06] Speaker 4: Know, there's a story in the Buffalo News where ahead
[1:00:08] Speaker 4: of the last game at high Mark Stadium, he's like
[1:00:11] Speaker 4: looking around.
[1:00:12] Speaker 3: The field and taking it all in.
[1:00:14] Speaker 4: And the community kind of felt an attachment to Sean McDermott. Really,
[1:00:18] Speaker 4: I mean you can see it, you can feel it.
[1:00:21] Speaker 4: Of the same fans who are pissed at this team
[1:00:23] Speaker 4: loses every January, they felt a bond to him. And
[1:00:27] Speaker 4: I think the majority of fans, at least this season
[1:00:30] Speaker 4: kind of pinned a lot of the problems on the
[1:00:32] Speaker 4: GM and the wide receiver position, and it has kind
[1:00:35] Speaker 4: of rooted in that WGR interview that Brandon Bean did,
[1:00:38] Speaker 4: And so in a roundabout way, yeah, like fansy, they
[1:00:43] Speaker 4: didn't think that a lot of fans, I don't know
[1:00:44] Speaker 4: what the percentage would be didn't think that Sean McDermott
[1:00:47] Speaker 4: should have been fired. So when this goes down, I
[1:00:51] Speaker 4: think a lot of folks were surprised and wanted answers,
[1:00:56] Speaker 4: and the media sought those answers. But here's where I
[1:01:00] Speaker 4: here's where I think though. This isn't to blame local media,
[1:01:03] Speaker 4: blame fans, and just the theme that I keep coming
[1:01:05] Speaker 4: back to Colin is let's not lose the plot here everyone, Right,
[1:01:09] Speaker 4: I gave you that stat earlier on this most trite
[1:01:14] Speaker 4: move on at this point and that game, that thirteen
[1:01:18] Speaker 4: seconds game at Arrowhead. I've been told repeatedly again on Monday,
[1:01:22] Speaker 4: when I reached out to people around the team around
[1:01:26] Speaker 4: the relationship of McDermott.
[1:01:27] Speaker 3: And Bean, that moment had a lot of it did
[1:01:31] Speaker 3: a lot of damage. Right.
[1:01:32] Speaker 4: I think Richard Sherman would tell you the exact same
[1:01:34] Speaker 4: thing about the legion of boom Seahawks when Pete Carroll
[1:01:38] Speaker 4: decided to throw the ball at the one yard line.
[1:01:39] Speaker 4: That moment kind of broke those Hawks twenty eight to three,
[1:01:43] Speaker 4: broke the Atlanta Falcons. Thirteen seconds broke the psychology of
[1:01:47] Speaker 4: the Bills. Here's why reported all of it. And it's funny,
[1:01:52] Speaker 4: I mean, to my knowledge, Sean mcderm has been peppered
[1:01:55] Speaker 4: with these thirteen second questions. But I've reached out to coaches,
[1:01:59] Speaker 4: I've reached out to play He overruled a special teams coordinator,
[1:02:05] Speaker 4: Heath Farewell, who wanted his squipkick. McDermott said, touchback. That
[1:02:10] Speaker 4: allows for those two plays to happen over the full
[1:02:12] Speaker 4: thirteen seconds, and what happens before those plays he calls
[1:02:17] Speaker 4: a timeout. They call it kodek, a chance to kind
[1:02:20] Speaker 4: of see what the Chiefs are doing.
[1:02:22] Speaker 3: And line up accordingly.
[1:02:23] Speaker 4: The dbs are in another zip code. It's easy, easy
[1:02:28] Speaker 4: work for mahomes. In that moment, McDermott I was told
[1:02:31] Speaker 4: overruled Leslie Frazier's defensive coordinator.
[1:02:34] Speaker 3: He's doing the defensive play calling. They give up the
[1:02:36] Speaker 3: field goal, they.
[1:02:37] Speaker 4: Get into overtime, they get rolled over, they get inside
[1:02:39] Speaker 4: the locker room, and I had a coach tell me
[1:02:41] Speaker 4: that even in that moment, Sean McDermott said something like
[1:02:44] Speaker 4: why the offense left too much time on the field, like.
[1:02:47] Speaker 3: What thirteen seconds? And then the next day.
[1:02:50] Speaker 4: Is kind of looking at his assistant coaches and saying,
[1:02:53] Speaker 4: you guys need to figure out what went wrong here.
[1:02:55] Speaker 3: You need to figure it out. And that was it.
[1:02:58] Speaker 3: End of the off season.
[1:02:59] Speaker 4: So does this like really traumatic by football standards moment happen.
[1:03:04] Speaker 4: There's really no ownership, there's really no accountability in that moment,
[1:03:09] Speaker 4: and it really did linger into twenty two, twenty three,
[1:03:14] Speaker 4: twenty four to the point where people in all departments
[1:03:17] Speaker 4: are saying like that that has kind of been a
[1:03:18] Speaker 4: dark cloud over this team.
[1:03:20] Speaker 3: To where and look the time.
[1:03:21] Speaker 4: It's kind of always been awkward if Terry Pagool and
[1:03:24] Speaker 4: the Bills want at the fire mcdermoty because in twenty
[1:03:26] Speaker 4: twenty two, Sean McDermott probably is his best coaching job ever.
[1:03:29] Speaker 3: A player nearly dies.
[1:03:30] Speaker 4: On a football field tomorrow, Hambler comes back to life,
[1:03:33] Speaker 4: and you've got to somehow get your team ready to
[1:03:35] Speaker 4: play a football game the following week.
[1:03:37] Speaker 3: Unbelievable job by McDermott.
[1:03:39] Speaker 4: Yes, they get smashed by the Bengals in the playoffs,
[1:03:41] Speaker 4: but it's not like Pagool.
[1:03:42] Speaker 3: Is going to fire him after all that.
[1:03:44] Speaker 4: Twenty twenty three, I write that three part series when
[1:03:47] Speaker 4: they're six and six, they win six games in a row.
[1:03:49] Speaker 4: They're a missed field go away from getting to the
[1:03:51] Speaker 4: AMC Championship game. It can't really fire him after that.
[1:03:54] Speaker 4: And then twenty twenty four you're in the AFC Championship game.
[1:03:57] Speaker 4: That fourth and five prayer from Allen, you know, he
[1:04:01] Speaker 4: escapes all that rush, gets into Dalton Kad just misses it.
[1:04:04] Speaker 4: They don't fire him after that, when in retrospect, maybe
[1:04:08] Speaker 4: you should have vrabeled Ben Johnson, the and Cohen are available.
[1:04:11] Speaker 3: But in a round about way. I understand.
[1:04:12] Speaker 4: Look, I think that that can't has kind of hovered
[1:04:14] Speaker 4: over the team in a way that isn't really understood
[1:04:18] Speaker 4: by the fans, the majority of the fans who I
[1:04:22] Speaker 4: feel this connection with Sean McDermott internally.
[1:04:25] Speaker 3: I'm telling you it's real.
[1:04:26] Speaker 4: And if the Bills could do it all over again,
[1:04:29] Speaker 4: I think they would think long and hard about doing
[1:04:33] Speaker 4: the Doug Collins to Phil Jackson. Think at that point
[1:04:35] Speaker 4: right where it would have been hard to the Bills
[1:04:39] Speaker 4: were still on the rise. But if you could rewrite history,
[1:04:42] Speaker 4: I mean that would have been a moment to move
[1:04:44] Speaker 4: on to a new coach, write then upgrade while you're
[1:04:48] Speaker 4: on the rise.
[1:04:50] Speaker 3: After thirteen seconds.
[1:04:53] Speaker 1: We've covered a lot of ground with Buffalo. I can't
[1:04:57] Speaker 1: bring you on and not talk Packers because that's what
[1:05:00] Speaker 1: we were first introduced to. You pick really fascinating franchises. So
[1:05:05] Speaker 1: I defended Matt Lafleur and Brian Gooden Kootz, but mostly
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: Matt Lafleur because he's won sixty six percent of his games.
[1:05:14] Speaker 1: I also think the NFC over the last two to
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: three years has really improved. It's superior to the AFC,
[1:05:21] Speaker 1: and I also think Aaron Rodgers at the end was difficult.
[1:05:25] Speaker 1: He had one or two really, Aaron was really happy
[1:05:28] Speaker 1: to see him. McCarthy and Aaron had regressed as a
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: relationship clearly eroded. He put his arms around the young,
[1:05:35] Speaker 1: good looking guy, just like Aaron. Generationally they were in
[1:05:38] Speaker 1: line kind of good looking, young, you know, successful guys.
[1:05:42] Speaker 1: But at the end, I think we know that Aaron
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: aged pretty quickly. Like unlike Brady, he was not obsessed
[1:05:49] Speaker 1: in the off season. You know, He's took his off
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: seasons to do his thing, and Aaron's aged more quickly,
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: so he didn't get really great. Aaron for quite the
[1:05:57] Speaker 1: runway we thought the love. I thought he did a
[1:06:01] Speaker 1: tremendous job with him and Malik Willis in multiple opportunities
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: when I mean, they got him into camp late and
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: a month later he's playing and they're winning. So I
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: just think he's a winning coach. I think it's the
[1:06:14] Speaker 1: NFC's gotten better his division. You know, Detroit arguably best roster,
[1:06:19] Speaker 1: Kevin O'Connell one of the sharpest guys in the league,
[1:06:21] Speaker 1: and now the Bears have Ben and calem It's a
[1:06:24] Speaker 1: really tough division with a lot of smart guys in it.
[1:06:28] Speaker 1: So but but do you think when the stories came
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: out and I tended when I see a story proclaiming
[1:06:36] Speaker 1: a big possible change, Okay who wrote it? Did you
[1:06:40] Speaker 1: do you believe they sat down in that organization forty
[1:06:44] Speaker 1: eight hours and thought about moving off Matt Lafleur.
[1:06:49] Speaker 3: It had to have been a thought.
[1:06:50] Speaker 4: If you're at policy, you know this is your opportunity
[1:06:54] Speaker 4: to put your imprint on the team. I mean, he's
[1:06:57] Speaker 4: the CEO, he's the president. We know the fans owned
[1:06:59] Speaker 4: the team, but he is the one in charge. It's
[1:07:01] Speaker 4: kind of a perfect situation when you when you take
[1:07:04] Speaker 4: over a team where you've got a head coach in
[1:07:06] Speaker 4: a GM entering the final year of their deal. So
[1:07:10] Speaker 4: you decide right then either you give them the extensions
[1:07:13] Speaker 4: or you move off them. I mean, they didn't want
[1:07:14] Speaker 4: to be lame ducks. Nobody wants that situation. So I
[1:07:17] Speaker 4: think it was probably a thought. How could it not
[1:07:19] Speaker 4: be after that choke job as Soldier field And it wasn't.
[1:07:24] Speaker 4: It wasn't the first and to be up, but it could.
[1:07:27] Speaker 4: It could have been twenty four to three at half
[1:07:29] Speaker 4: with the field goal. Hell, Jordan Love almost hitting Christian
[1:07:31] Speaker 4: Watson on a touchdown. It could have been twenty eight
[1:07:33] Speaker 4: to three at that a half, and that's kind of
[1:07:35] Speaker 4: a forgotten play. But yes, it's twenty one to three
[1:07:38] Speaker 4: to have those four to three and outs, to have
[1:07:40] Speaker 4: no answers as an offensive coach, and you could just
[1:07:44] Speaker 4: you could just feel.
[1:07:45] Speaker 3: It, you know.
[1:07:46] Speaker 4: Especially it was interesting Colin spending a week around the
[1:07:49] Speaker 4: New England Patriots out of that game and hearing from
[1:07:52] Speaker 4: Mike Vrabel and these players and how they strained through
[1:07:56] Speaker 4: the play, how they worked through the play.
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: The longevitabili never wit, the.
[1:08:00] Speaker 4: Relentless and that is just created by Mike Rabel as
[1:08:04] Speaker 4: far back as the spring.
[1:08:06] Speaker 3: It is very culture driven.
[1:08:08] Speaker 4: When he's telling guys, pick up your dirty wash claus
[1:08:12] Speaker 4: in the shower. He instructed the equipment staff if you
[1:08:15] Speaker 4: see dirty washcloths on the shower floor, just wring them.
[1:08:18] Speaker 3: Out and don't wash them like little things like that.
[1:08:21] Speaker 4: All the way to the defense, he installs x's and
[1:08:24] Speaker 4: odes wise has a purpose and then to hear Matt
[1:08:27] Speaker 4: Laflour talk about how they need to strain through the
[1:08:30] Speaker 4: plane the play more after the latest collapse, I don't know, man.
[1:08:34] Speaker 3: Like that speaks to the DNA of a team. He's
[1:08:38] Speaker 3: been there a while.
[1:08:39] Speaker 4: There's been a lot of late game collapses, not all
[1:08:42] Speaker 4: the way back to Aaron Rodgers.
[1:08:44] Speaker 1: So let me throw something at you. When when he
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: was hired, I was told, I've said this on the
[1:08:51] Speaker 1: air when McVey, Shanahan, and Matt Lafleur were together. McVeigh
[1:08:57] Speaker 1: was the culture guy, Shanahan was the scheme guy. Lafleur
[1:09:01] Speaker 1: was the nice guy when he was in When he
[1:09:04] Speaker 1: was in Tennessee and went to Green Bay, I was
[1:09:09] Speaker 1: told by somebody that was very close to the situation
[1:09:14] Speaker 1: that he didn't think he was necessarily a great culture guy.
[1:09:19] Speaker 1: He thought he was a good guy, a smart guy,
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: knew as shit, but again not necessarily didn't didn't know
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: if he could build his tough, relentless culture. I've said
[1:09:30] Speaker 1: this about Lincoln Riley. I know he's smart. USC leads
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: the nation in offense regularly. I know he knows the
[1:09:37] Speaker 1: side of the ball. I know he's smart. I've compared
[1:09:41] Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley and Matt Lafleur. I know they're good, and
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: I know they're smart, and they know quarterbacks on offense.
[1:09:48] Speaker 1: I don't know if either's a great culture creator. Ben
[1:09:51] Speaker 1: Johnson did it in a six weeks. I mean they
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: were they were a better football team in six weeks.
[1:09:59] Speaker 1: They literally eliminated negative plays in sacks. In the first
[1:10:02] Speaker 1: two weeks, they weren't gone out of the program. So
[1:10:05] Speaker 1: my thing is, when I watched Dan Campbell's culture bite,
[1:10:08] Speaker 1: knee caps, tough, physical, I can see it. Vrabel clean
[1:10:14] Speaker 1: it up, no penalties top I can see it. Ben
[1:10:18] Speaker 1: Johnson with Caleb in the offense, I can see it.
[1:10:21] Speaker 1: I can't with the floor. I see smart. I said,
[1:10:24] Speaker 1: good with quarterbacks. I see you know, good guy, liked
[1:10:31] Speaker 1: by a lot of people. I don't see a great culture.
[1:10:35] Speaker 1: Is it fair for me to say that?
[1:10:37] Speaker 4: I agree percent, And I'm not just blowing smoke.
[1:10:40] Speaker 3: Colin. I think he just nailed it.
[1:10:42] Speaker 4: That's exactly what I hear about Matt Lafleur, what we
[1:10:45] Speaker 4: see about our own eyes when we watch the Green
[1:10:47] Speaker 4: Bay Packers looking five of their nine losses, they led
[1:10:50] Speaker 4: by nine plus points.
[1:10:52] Speaker 3: Three times they lost.
[1:10:53] Speaker 4: When they didn't even punt. Like, if that's not coaching,
[1:10:57] Speaker 4: I don't know what is.
[1:10:58] Speaker 3: It's wow. It's incredible what.
[1:11:00] Speaker 4: He did with Aaron Rodgers after a really messy breakup
[1:11:05] Speaker 4: with Mike McCarthy.
[1:11:06] Speaker 3: Now you're coming in with your offense.
[1:11:07] Speaker 4: If you got to blend it with Aaron Rodgers wanting
[1:11:10] Speaker 4: to do whatever the hell he wants to do with
[1:11:11] Speaker 4: the line of scrimmage.
[1:11:12] Speaker 3: Somehow they made it work to the point of.
[1:11:15] Speaker 4: What getting MVP awards, getting to Divisional in conference playoff games.
[1:11:20] Speaker 3: We know.
[1:11:21] Speaker 1: I know he's good with quarterbacks. I watched him with Malik,
[1:11:24] Speaker 1: I watched him with Jordan, I watched them with Aaron.
[1:11:26] Speaker 1: It's like Lincoln Riley. I don't doubt that part the mvpiecet.
[1:11:29] Speaker 1: I don't doubt it. This is about culture, right, and
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: that's what I wonder about.
[1:11:34] Speaker 3: I'm right there with you. It's totally about culture. What
[1:11:37] Speaker 3: he did with Jordan Love.
[1:11:38] Speaker 4: How I remember doing this podcast after that brutal Raiders game.
[1:11:43] Speaker 3: It was awful and we're all wonder where is Jordan
[1:11:45] Speaker 3: Love gonna go from here?
[1:11:47] Speaker 4: He developed those three years behind the scenes, and that
[1:11:50] Speaker 4: three years as a starter. He is, in my opinion,
[1:11:52] Speaker 4: a top ten, maybe a top five quarterback. But you're
[1:11:55] Speaker 4: you shouldn't lose a game when your quarterback throws for
[1:11:58] Speaker 4: what three hundred plus yards for sounds of no picks
[1:12:00] Speaker 4: on the road, And look, we can pick plays all
[1:12:05] Speaker 4: day long. If if Micah Parsons is on the field,
[1:12:08] Speaker 4: he probably creates a big play that wins you that playoff. Right,
[1:12:11] Speaker 4: if Romeo Dobbs recovers an on side kick, you win
[1:12:14] Speaker 4: that game.
[1:12:15] Speaker 3: But when it happens repeatedly.
[1:12:17] Speaker 4: Go back to the Cleveland Browns game, they blow at
[1:12:19] Speaker 4: ten nothing lead to the freaking Browns with a few
[1:12:22] Speaker 4: minutes left.
[1:12:23] Speaker 3: That is culture. And a player tell me that he
[1:12:26] Speaker 3: could see and feel.
[1:12:28] Speaker 4: Matt Lafleor freeze up in his words, in big moments.
[1:12:32] Speaker 4: It's kind of like there's a little there's a little
[1:12:35] Speaker 4: bit of a tenseness, a little bit of a panic
[1:12:37] Speaker 4: in some of these moments. Look, I think you can grow,
[1:12:40] Speaker 4: you can evolve. Maybe he can get that out of them.
[1:12:41] Speaker 4: That this is last year that the player told me that.
[1:12:44] Speaker 4: But you watch these games and you see these finishes,
[1:12:48] Speaker 4: it makes you wonder. Right, That's the big gamble by
[1:12:51] Speaker 4: ed policy here is that Matt Lafleur will continue to
[1:12:54] Speaker 4: develop as a coach and with the healthy Mica Parsons,
[1:12:58] Speaker 4: he can he can figure this out.
[1:13:00] Speaker 3: They've got the talent. I don't think talent's a problem.
[1:13:01] Speaker 3: I think that's why Brian Gudkins was always safe.
[1:13:04] Speaker 4: He's the one that put his career on the line
[1:13:05] Speaker 4: for Jordan Love when everybody was calling him nuts, and
[1:13:08] Speaker 4: he saw something he believed. He's the one that's drafted
[1:13:11] Speaker 4: all these wide receivers. Look, if we want to, Doc
[1:13:13] Speaker 4: Brandon Bean probably could take a page out of that
[1:13:15] Speaker 4: Gutigin's playbook. Just draft receivers around your quarterback and let
[1:13:19] Speaker 4: him develop together.
[1:13:20] Speaker 3: He's done that. They made the big.
[1:13:22] Speaker 4: Move for Parsons. It's on the floor to figure all
[1:13:25] Speaker 4: that other stuff out. And I think it is rooted
[1:13:27] Speaker 4: in culture, whatever you want to define it by. There's
[1:13:30] Speaker 4: something amiss in Green Bay because look, if the new
[1:13:35] Speaker 4: playoff rules weren't in, they're not even making the playoffs
[1:13:37] Speaker 4: the last three years. They're part of the forty four
[1:13:39] Speaker 4: percent club? Is that seventh seed because they added another team?
[1:13:43] Speaker 3: And what kind of conversation are we having right now
[1:13:45] Speaker 3: with all that
[1:13:47] Speaker 4: The volume

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