# Pacers-Knicks Reaction: Jalen Brunson needs help, Indiana "Best Team in NBA"

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 24 May 2025, 13 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/952d1c87-225d-4533-851e-b2e70072ed43/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin reacts to the Indiana Pacers beating the New York Knicks in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals. He gives his takes on Jalen Brunon, Pascal Siakam, Tyrese Haliburton and Karl Anthony-Towns. Is it over for New York? Colin explains why he thinks the Pacers are the best team in the NBA. (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

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[0:35] Speaker 1: com to find your cable channel. All right, little instant
[0:45] Speaker 1: reaction on the Pacers beating the Knicks to go up
[0:48] Speaker 1: two to zero in the series fourteen one oh nine.
[0:52] Speaker 1: You know, so interesting. I had Indiana's a better offensive team,
[0:56] Speaker 1: Like they shoot the three ball better consistently. Points come
[0:59] Speaker 1: easier for them. Some of it's Halliburton and some of
[1:02] Speaker 1: it's just their bigs, you know. Whereas Mitchell Robinson had
[1:07] Speaker 1: a great first half, he's not really an offensive player.
[1:11] Speaker 1: I mean he's a disaster at the free throw line.
[1:13] Speaker 1: It looks awful, the results are awful. Miles Turner is
[1:17] Speaker 1: hitting threes in the corner for the Pacers, a much
[1:20] Speaker 1: better offensive player than Mitchell Robinson. Karl Anthony Towns and
[1:24] Speaker 1: Say Oakham are both gifted offensive players. I love say
[1:27] Speaker 1: Oakham's game, but Carl Anthony Towns is a complete liability defensively.
[1:32] Speaker 1: So if you just take the bigs for the Pacers
[1:34] Speaker 1: and the bigs for the Knicks, to me, that's the
[1:36] Speaker 1: difference in the ballgame. You've got Mitchell Robinson that's all defense,
[1:40] Speaker 1: and then kat that's all offense, whereas with Turner and
[1:44] Speaker 1: say Ockham, they're more balanced players to have. I mean,
[1:48] Speaker 1: just think about how good the Pacers are compared to
[1:50] Speaker 1: the Reggie Miller Pacers. Okay, the Reggie Miller Pacers. They
[1:53] Speaker 1: made documentaries about those teams. Reggie Miller could shoot and
[1:56] Speaker 1: it was a bunch of guys you didn't want near
[1:58] Speaker 1: an eighteen footer. Everybody can shoot on the Pacers. Miles
[2:01] Speaker 1: Turner is cranking up three. Say Okam's got incredible feet
[2:05] Speaker 1: and hands for a big runs the floor like he's
[2:07] Speaker 1: a guard. Halliburt, ni Smith, they just got dudes, and
[2:12] Speaker 1: just offense is easy for them. Halliburton in the first
[2:15] Speaker 1: half wasn't scoring, but you get into the second half.
[2:18] Speaker 1: There's a reason that the Pacers are such a clutch team.
[2:22] Speaker 1: They're great. The Nick slowed the pacedown tonight, so that
[2:27] Speaker 1: really played to the next style. But let's be honest.
[2:31] Speaker 1: You need Brunson to hit a lot of tough shots.
[2:34] Speaker 1: That's the New York Knicks offense. You need him to
[2:36] Speaker 1: hit a lot of tough shots. And Karl Anthony Towns
[2:39] Speaker 1: is a gifted offensive player. But again, you get into
[2:41] Speaker 1: situations where really well coached teams. I mean, you have
[2:45] Speaker 1: Carlisle's a great coach. You have Halliburton's one of the
[2:48] Speaker 1: smartest players in the league. Then you have say, come
[2:51] Speaker 1: on the pick and rolls, they're just working Cat. Cat's
[2:55] Speaker 1: a total liability, and the Celtics picked on him, the
[2:57] Speaker 1: Cavs picked on him, and Indiana picked on him when
[3:01] Speaker 1: they faced during the regular season. And you can shore
[3:03] Speaker 1: up some things. You know, again, everybody plays better defense
[3:07] Speaker 1: than the postseason. But they're just your game is your game,
[3:11] Speaker 1: and Cat's a bit of a defensive liability, not a
[3:14] Speaker 1: bit he is. And so if you just look at
[3:16] Speaker 1: the bigs for these two teams, it's a mismatch for
[3:20] Speaker 1: the Pacers. Two really capable offensive guys, especially Siakam The
[3:26] Speaker 1: other thing is Channing Fry was on my show a
[3:30] Speaker 1: couple of days ago in FS one and he said,
[3:32] Speaker 1: he goes, I don't really consider New York. When I
[3:34] Speaker 1: played against the Knicks. New York wasn't a road game
[3:38] Speaker 1: like New Yorkers just they pump you up. They love
[3:43] Speaker 1: great talent and like they're appreciative of it. It's not
[3:48] Speaker 1: a small town. It's Rutger Park, it's Broadway. You're performing
[3:53] Speaker 1: for New Yorkers. And the truth is Indiana is such
[3:57] Speaker 1: an effortless, smart, well run They've won six straight road games.
[4:02] Speaker 1: You get the same game out of Indiana regardless of
[4:05] Speaker 1: where they play. New York. They're only two and five
[4:09] Speaker 1: in their last seven home games. So it's like, I mean,
[4:13] Speaker 1: we've got to be honest about this. Where Indiana plays
[4:17] Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And it reminds me a little bit. You know.
[4:21] Speaker 1: I go back to the showtime Lakers, and I don't
[4:23] Speaker 1: know what their road record was, but I can remember
[4:27] Speaker 1: watching the Lakers with magic home and away just didn't.
[4:30] Speaker 1: I mean, they were better at home. But when you're
[4:33] Speaker 1: great offensively and points come easy, and you noticed the
[4:39] Speaker 1: pace was very much in the knicks favor. But then
[4:42] Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you get into the fourth quarter,
[4:44] Speaker 1: or there are six minutes left, there's five minutes left,
[4:47] Speaker 1: and the Pacers just keep moving the ball up the floor,
[4:50] Speaker 1: and their bigs can run the floor, and they just
[4:53] Speaker 1: get some easier baskets that then Knicks don't get. The
[4:56] Speaker 1: Knicks once again, very reliant on Jalen Brunson hitting a great,
[5:00] Speaker 1: difficult shot, which which he often does. I mean, just
[5:04] Speaker 1: to give you a sense of how dependent the Knicks
[5:08] Speaker 1: are in Brunston. He's got seventy nine points in two
[5:11] Speaker 1: games and they're down zero and two at home. So
[5:16] Speaker 1: I really like New York, but they're lobsided cat no defense,
[5:21] Speaker 1: Mitchell Robinson, you don't want to mirar the free throw line.
[5:25] Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, Hartenstein's the guy they you know,
[5:27] Speaker 1: that's the guy they let go to Okay, see they
[5:29] Speaker 1: couldn't afford him. Totally understandable. Boy, they miss they miss
[5:34] Speaker 1: his sort of relentless offensive rebounding and he was just
[5:38] Speaker 1: so dangerous and so urgent and so active, and I
[5:41] Speaker 1: feel like they miss him, and I think you just
[5:45] Speaker 1: need another another offensive piece. I don't think you need gianness.
[5:49] Speaker 1: If you're the Knicks, maybe it's KD. I just feel
[5:52] Speaker 1: you need another consistent offensive piece because you want Robinson
[5:56] Speaker 1: on the floor late, because you don't want to get
[5:58] Speaker 1: burned on the pick and roll. Indiana just has the ability,
[6:03] Speaker 1: and again so smartly coached. Halliburton's so bright, say Okham,
[6:08] Speaker 1: these are really high functioning players. They just know how
[6:14] Speaker 1: to get better shots, more consistently, work the ball, great pacing.
[6:21] Speaker 1: This is a really good team. The Knicks are losing
[6:23] Speaker 1: to a really really good team. The East is so
[6:26] Speaker 1: much weaker than the West. It's hard to kind of evaluate.
[6:29] Speaker 1: But I've the more I watch the Pacers, I think
[6:32] Speaker 1: they're the best team in the NBA. I mean, they
[6:34] Speaker 1: were a buzz saw through Milwaukee, a buzz saw through Cleveland,
[6:39] Speaker 1: and now they've gone to New York. They're up to Oh,
[6:41] Speaker 1: they're on fire. And this is you know, they've had
[6:44] Speaker 1: the fastest pace in the NBA the last three years.
[6:47] Speaker 1: Even when the Knicks slowed them down tonight, they're still
[6:51] Speaker 1: shooting incredible field gloal percentages over forty one percent on threes.
[6:56] Speaker 1: Didn't hit, you know, miss some free throws. But they're
[6:59] Speaker 1: not really reliant on that. They're not reliant on the three.
[7:02] Speaker 1: Sometimes you lose to a better team. And as much
[7:05] Speaker 1: as defense is appreciated both teams, you know, it's much
[7:11] Speaker 1: easier to defend the Knicks, So the Knicks can be
[7:13] Speaker 1: a better defensive team than the Pacers. But the Pacers
[7:17] Speaker 1: have really good length. They've got excellent length, and they're
[7:21] Speaker 1: good enough defensively two in the big moments late stop
[7:26] Speaker 1: a fairly limited offensive team in the Knicks. But I
[7:29] Speaker 1: think we did this. To me is more about the
[7:31] Speaker 1: Pacers than criticizing the Knicks. Knicks for a good team.
[7:35] Speaker 1: The Pacers are a special love. I said this probably
[7:40] Speaker 1: a month ago. It was during the Milwaukee series. I
[7:43] Speaker 1: had said this, I love watching Indiana play. Indiana plays basketball.
[7:47] Speaker 1: It's my kind of basketball. I get so tired of
[7:50] Speaker 1: Boston in this parade of threes. It's just so repetitive.
[7:55] Speaker 1: I love what the Pacers do. I just love the
[8:00] Speaker 1: way they play. I love when your bigs have touch
[8:04] Speaker 1: and Sayakam is so good. He is so good. It's great.
[8:10] Speaker 1: In Toronto, you also know that it's it's it's really
[8:15] Speaker 1: something to watch. Like Halliburton kind of toy like he
[8:20] Speaker 1: can he can shoot. He got that big three laid
[8:22] Speaker 1: against Brunson, Halliburton is. It's just he's just at times
[8:27] Speaker 1: sort of toying the inn, the out, the hurky. Jerky's
[8:32] Speaker 1: just got kind of an awkward pace and he's a
[8:35] Speaker 1: lot to guard. Whereas Brunson smaller leverage, he doesn't love
[8:40] Speaker 1: to be trapped. Halliburton just kind of welcomes everything. He
[8:44] Speaker 1: can go full speed, he can go half court. If
[8:47] Speaker 1: you double him, he can squeeze through it. He gets
[8:50] Speaker 1: rid of the ball quickly. There's just so many layers
[8:54] Speaker 1: to Halliburton's game, I think. And this is a well
[8:57] Speaker 1: constructed you know, we've been talking a lot about this.
[9:00] Speaker 1: OKC really well constructed. Indiana is really well constructed. There's
[9:04] Speaker 1: some Boston, there's some really good general managers in this league.
[9:08] Speaker 1: But you know, the people that complain about the NBA
[9:11] Speaker 1: go back to those Knicks, Pacers, Spike Lee, you know,
[9:14] Speaker 1: documentary series, go look at Indiana skill level that and
[9:17] Speaker 1: now there are so many good players. What Biggs can
[9:20] Speaker 1: do now running the floor and the touch around the basket,
[9:23] Speaker 1: the hands, the feet, it's incredible to watch. And I
[9:27] Speaker 1: don't think anybody in this league, like Oklahoma City is
[9:30] Speaker 1: really good, but it's SGA and a really deep roster
[9:34] Speaker 1: in defense. I mean, I think we're watching it here
[9:37] Speaker 1: like Minnesota has just got some They just got some
[9:40] Speaker 1: limitations offensively, as do the Knicks. I mean, you could
[9:44] Speaker 1: argue Indiana against OKC would be a much better series,
[9:49] Speaker 1: and so would the Knicks against the Tee Wolves. Those
[9:51] Speaker 1: two teams would match up really really well, like Minnesota.
[9:54] Speaker 1: Mitchell Robinson limited offensively for the Knicks, Karl Anthony Towns
[9:59] Speaker 1: limited offense for the t Wolves. Like the t Wolves
[10:03] Speaker 1: and the Knicks feel more similar where you have one
[10:06] Speaker 1: guy that you really trust to get points in a
[10:09] Speaker 1: Brunson or an Ant and then you cross your fingers
[10:11] Speaker 1: on a Julius Randall. And how much you get out
[10:15] Speaker 1: of Karl Anthony Towns, who can get into foul trouble,
[10:17] Speaker 1: who's atrocious defensively? Okay, see Indiana are are It's going
[10:23] Speaker 1: to be Indiana's offense and Okay C's defense. It's going
[10:26] Speaker 1: to be a classic final. But and I do think
[10:29] Speaker 1: New York will go to Indiana and the games will
[10:32] Speaker 1: be close. I think just the way these teams are built,
[10:36] Speaker 1: you know, but it feels like, man, you are just
[10:40] Speaker 1: you just need Brunson to hit big shot after big
[10:43] Speaker 1: shot late, and Halliburton doesn't face that pressure. He can
[10:47] Speaker 1: hit the shots. Get it. Denise Smith Turner say, oh, come,
[10:50] Speaker 1: he's just got more offensive options. Sometimes the better team,
[10:55] Speaker 1: especially offensively, the more gifted team prevails. And that what
[11:00] Speaker 1: I feel like. I watched it fast pace, pacers slow
[11:03] Speaker 1: the pace eventually, pacers hitting big shots late. And just
[11:09] Speaker 1: a side note, these are the two oldest coaches in
[11:12] Speaker 1: the NBA, Rick Carlisle and Tibbs. And this the intensity
[11:18] Speaker 1: and the urgency these teams play with every possession three
[11:24] Speaker 1: minutes into the game. Every possession matters, every possession. What
[11:30] Speaker 1: I love about the NBA you have because these teams
[11:32] Speaker 1: aren't young. There's I mean it's it's there's some younger players,
[11:36] Speaker 1: but you've got guys who have been around the league
[11:38] Speaker 1: for a while. You've got really committed players on these rosters.
[11:44] Speaker 1: But these players really care, and these coaches are squeezing
[11:50] Speaker 1: every last ounce of talent, skill, and every last possession
[11:56] Speaker 1: out of these teams. I mean, it's it's just great
[12:00] Speaker 1: American sports. These these rosters and these teams. Man, they're
[12:04] Speaker 1: just they're not taking possessions off. I mean, I'm sitting
[12:07] Speaker 1: there in the first quarter, and the first quarter was
[12:09] Speaker 1: low scoring. Remember in Game one, it was like both
[12:12] Speaker 1: teams shooting seventy percent. It was like au basketball. Nobody
[12:15] Speaker 1: was guarding anybody. But I mean the offense was just
[12:18] Speaker 1: so highly skilled. It was just a track meet. And
[12:21] Speaker 1: you know this game it was low scoring, but the
[12:24] Speaker 1: intensity both teams playing just really intentional basketball, Like every
[12:30] Speaker 1: possession matters. I've said this about college basketball, even the
[12:33] Speaker 1: good teams like like Florida or Houston playing for the
[12:36] Speaker 1: national championship. You can go eight possessions and you just
[12:39] Speaker 1: get bad shots and there's just limitations on you know
[12:42] Speaker 1: who you want the ball getting into the hands of.
[12:45] Speaker 1: I mean, you watch the Pacers, like every offensive possession.
[12:49] Speaker 1: If you're not ready to roll, if you're not locked in,
[12:52] Speaker 1: they're getting a great shot. They're getting a wide open
[12:54] Speaker 1: jumper from the corner. It could be Miles Turner, it
[12:56] Speaker 1: could be Nie Smith. You have to be so on
[12:59] Speaker 1: it defensively when you play Indiana because they are ready
[13:03] Speaker 1: to run at any opportunity, and if not, they're just
[13:07] Speaker 1: gonna move it. Everybody touches it and if you're not
[13:09] Speaker 1: zoned in, they get easy looks they are a pain
[13:13] Speaker 1: in the butt to face. Indiana's won six straight road
[13:16] Speaker 1: games for a reason. The volume

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