# Knicks STUN Pacers, KAT Explodes, Thunder VULNERABLE On The Road, Caitlin Clark Is A “Billion Dollar Athlete”

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 26 May 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/90b6d282-667b-444e-b16c-b2e9004b5576/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down all the NBA playoff action! They start with the Knicks overcoming a huge Pacers lead and give kudos to Karl-Anthony Towns for putting on an all-timer of a fourth quarter (3:30). They highlight the Pacers offense being “shook” after the Knicks late run and unable to recover (9:00) They both agree the series SHOULD be 2-1 and discuss the trend of teams winning consistently on the road this postseason (14:00). They pivot to the Wolves destroying the Thunder in game 3, and debate whether it was a fluke or something for OKC to worry about (24:00). They point to the Thunder’s unique style of play and swarming defense as part of what makes them so tough to beat, but explain why they are a vulnerable team when playing on the road (28:00). Colin compares the Pacers to the Nuggets championship team and questions whether they can have sustained success, and Jason argues the Thunder could potentially win multiple titles but the window is short (33:30). Finally, they discuss the insane stat that Caitlin Clark is responsible for over a quarter of the WNBA’s revenue and more than tripled the value of the Indiana Fever and whether Clark is a “billion dollar athlete” (46:00). They weigh in on the Steph Curry comparisons, predict she’ll be the best player in the league in a year or two and explain how the WNBA make the most out of marketing their biggest star (52:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonight See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: The Volume. At the end of the season, there's only
[0:05] Speaker 1: one team that can call themselves NBA Champs, only one
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[0:58] Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops today here at the Volume
[1:00] Speaker 2: Heavy Sunday. Everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
[1:02] Speaker 2: a great weekend. Well, Colin Coward was very kind to
[1:05] Speaker 2: join us tonight with his time, and this time two
[1:08] Speaker 2: days ago we were looking at a what looked like
[1:12] Speaker 2: the Indiana Pacers on their way to potentially a sweep
[1:15] Speaker 2: to go to the finals. We're talking about trading Karl
[1:17] Speaker 2: Anthony Towns. Everyone's blowing a bunch of smoke about the
[1:20] Speaker 2: Thunder and how they're the all time great team. And
[1:22] Speaker 2: now we're sitting here on Sunday evening and both series
[1:25] Speaker 2: are two to one and very very different Colin. My
[1:28] Speaker 2: initial read was just simply that this is more or
[1:31] Speaker 2: less where the Eastern Conference Finals should be at this
[1:34] Speaker 2: point in that I thought the Knicks looked like the
[1:36] Speaker 2: better team in Game one and they blew it, And
[1:39] Speaker 2: I thought the Pacers looked like the better team tonight
[1:41] Speaker 2: that I thought they let their foot off the gas
[1:43] Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. The Knicks did find some stuff,
[1:45] Speaker 2: and we'll get into that, but Carl Anthony town steals
[1:48] Speaker 2: this game just like Aaron Nesmith stole Game one, and
[1:50] Speaker 2: it kind of feels like we're supposed to be two
[1:52] Speaker 2: to one Indie and here we are two to one Indie.
[1:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they are really different teams. At one point,
[1:57] Speaker 1: the Pacers had a sixteen to nothing fast break points advantage.
[2:01] Speaker 1: I mean, you can tell Indiana always wants to push
[2:04] Speaker 1: the pace, but tonight it was basically in the half
[2:07] Speaker 1: court Carl Anthony Towns with Jalen Brunson off the floor
[2:11] Speaker 1: for most of it. He had one of these Carl
[2:13] Speaker 1: Anthony Towns games, and I think I've told you this before.
[2:17] Speaker 1: It was a weird thing. I swear to god. I
[2:20] Speaker 1: went to about six NBA games. He played in five
[2:22] Speaker 1: of them. There was this stretch in LA. Every time
[2:25] Speaker 1: I went to a game he was playing, and he's
[2:28] Speaker 1: in all of them. He had a quarterway. He was
[2:30] Speaker 1: the best player on the floor by long shot. And
[2:32] Speaker 1: he does this and you know for a guy his size,
[2:37] Speaker 1: like his first step for a guy his size, like
[2:40] Speaker 1: he is quick and then he gets by you and
[2:43] Speaker 1: he's long and he's angular and he's a handful. He's
[2:48] Speaker 1: a handful for a big and I've just seen him
[2:52] Speaker 1: do stuff like this before. But I thought with Brunson
[2:55] Speaker 1: off the floor, you know sometimes when you're when you're
[2:58] Speaker 1: a really gifted player and you play with a ball
[3:00] Speaker 1: centric great player. This was Brunson in Dallas, you know,
[3:04] Speaker 1: like he would be like it was Luca's show. And
[3:07] Speaker 1: then you put him in New York and this is
[3:09] Speaker 1: one of those were in a weird way. It was
[3:11] Speaker 1: like Karl Anthony Taw. The team was just looking for
[3:13] Speaker 1: him to lead, and we both know that he can
[3:16] Speaker 1: do this. He doesn't sustain it, he gets in foul trouble.
[3:20] Speaker 1: He can be inefficient, he's flaky. But and then I think,
[3:24] Speaker 1: to your point, I think I think they just they
[3:27] Speaker 1: had a series of really the Pacers had a series
[3:30] Speaker 1: of really bad offensive possessions, and you look up and
[3:33] Speaker 1: you're like nine seven, four to two lead. So this
[3:38] Speaker 1: is what happens in the NBA. This isn't college Like,
[3:40] Speaker 1: there's just things happened quickly in the NBA, and you
[3:44] Speaker 1: looked up and you're like, oh, New York has total
[3:47] Speaker 1: control emotionally, they just felt like they were going to
[3:50] Speaker 1: win the game. With about four left, You're like, Indiana
[3:53] Speaker 1: can't get out of its own way here offensively.
[3:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, even when it was a two or three point
[3:58] Speaker 2: game with Indy still in the it kind of just
[4:00] Speaker 2: felt like New York was gonna win at that point.
[4:02] Speaker 2: Basketball is such a confidence and rhythm sport that, like,
[4:05] Speaker 2: when the momentum shifts as dramatically as it does, it
[4:09] Speaker 2: can be difficult to reassert control of the situation. Very similarly,
[4:13] Speaker 2: that happened to New York. All of a sudden, their
[4:14] Speaker 2: offense bogs down. In Game one, other offense bogs down.
[4:17] Speaker 2: Suddenly Aaron E. Smith's hitting every single three he takes.
[4:20] Speaker 2: It just kind of changes the psychology of the game.
[4:23] Speaker 2: I thought things really turned around in that late third quarter.
[4:25] Speaker 2: It was so funny because stan Van Gundy goes like,
[4:27] Speaker 2: I'm not sure I like this lineup. It's a bunch
[4:29] Speaker 2: of guys who can't score and they need to score.
[4:32] Speaker 2: And then he goes He's like, who's gonna be the
[4:33] Speaker 2: guy who brings the offense for the Knicks and ended
[4:35] Speaker 2: up being deuced McBride and they went on like a
[4:37] Speaker 2: seven to zero run and it cut it down to
[4:39] Speaker 2: ten going into the fourth quarter, and that's what they
[4:41] Speaker 2: were talking about. They're like, they just need to get
[4:42] Speaker 2: it down to ten. And then as soon as they
[4:44] Speaker 2: got into the fourth quarter in striking distance, Karl Anthony
[4:48] Speaker 2: Towns gets going. It's the three point shooting. It's the
[4:51] Speaker 2: like you mentioned, the first step. And then once he
[4:53] Speaker 2: gets that first step, the bigs all try to catch
[4:56] Speaker 2: up to him, but he's just so good at powering
[4:58] Speaker 2: through with that battering of a left arm as he
[5:01] Speaker 2: goes to the rim and once he got going, this
[5:04] Speaker 2: is the most interesting part you mentioned it, Colin, Indy's
[5:07] Speaker 2: offense got shook. This is the first time in a
[5:11] Speaker 2: long time I've seen Indy's offense get their foundation shaken
[5:16] Speaker 2: the way that the Knicks did. And what it really
[5:18] Speaker 2: came down to is that stretch with Brunson out. You know,
[5:21] Speaker 2: it's been so fascinating, Colin, because it's different than the
[5:23] Speaker 2: Celtics series. In the Celtic series, Cat and Brunson were
[5:26] Speaker 2: asked to defend one on one, very different kind of idea.
[5:30] Speaker 2: The Celtics succumbs to their switching and they just tried
[5:33] Speaker 2: to attack Brunson and Cat one on one and they
[5:36] Speaker 2: did a good job. But in this series, the job
[5:39] Speaker 2: for Brunson and Kat is much more sprinting in rotation,
[5:43] Speaker 2: getting back in transition defense. It's a lot of like
[5:45] Speaker 2: mental focus and energy related stuff, and those guys have
[5:49] Speaker 2: been rough in this series in that department. But in
[5:52] Speaker 2: that fourth quarter stretch with Brunson off the floor for
[5:54] Speaker 2: most of it, it's Duce McBride out there, a substantially
[5:58] Speaker 2: better defensive player. Kat was giving the requisite effort in
[6:01] Speaker 2: rotation and one of the things with this Pacers team,
[6:04] Speaker 2: Siakam and Halliburton can play one on one, but that's
[6:08] Speaker 2: not necessarily what they do at a superstar level, right,
[6:13] Speaker 2: And so if you rotate and you make them take
[6:16] Speaker 2: contested shots, they might just go cold and miss them all.
[6:18] Speaker 2: And that's what happened in this game. They don't have
[6:20] Speaker 2: a Brunson, a guy who's just an indomitable one on
[6:24] Speaker 2: one force who can step in and get great shots,
[6:27] Speaker 2: and so like that, that really is the key if
[6:29] Speaker 2: there's any hope for New York in this series. And
[6:31] Speaker 2: I still feel pretty strongly that Indiana is gonna get
[6:33] Speaker 2: it done. But like, if there's any hope for New
[6:35] Speaker 2: York in this series, it's they gotta fly around and
[6:39] Speaker 2: rotate and they got they gotta match Indiana's speed and
[6:42] Speaker 2: pace and energy as much as they can in this series.
[6:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's one of the reasons Indiana
[6:48] Speaker 1: plays with pace is because Rick Carlisle knows that's when
[6:51] Speaker 1: they're at their best, because Turner can run, Siakam runs
[6:54] Speaker 1: the floor really well. But they got into us, Indiana
[6:57] Speaker 1: got into about it, and it wasn't like two minutes,
[6:59] Speaker 1: it was like six minutes. So they got into a
[7:00] Speaker 1: six minute stretch where McConnell's getting He got one short
[7:04] Speaker 1: look and then he forced one and then you know
[7:07] Speaker 1: again they have like Nie Smith can get hot, but
[7:10] Speaker 1: he's not going to beat people off the ball, and
[7:12] Speaker 1: you're just watching it and you're like, oh, this is mud.
[7:15] Speaker 1: This doesn't work at all. It's and you know it's
[7:19] Speaker 1: I think the Pacers are a better team. I I
[7:23] Speaker 1: think there's certain things the Knicks need to do. I
[7:28] Speaker 1: think what happened to the Pacers tonight can happen to
[7:32] Speaker 1: the next more often where they feel a little stock
[7:35] Speaker 1: if Brunson's not hitting. And if I recall, I think
[7:38] Speaker 1: Halliburton was out for a little bit. He was out
[7:40] Speaker 1: of it when they got out of rhythm. Then he
[7:42] Speaker 1: came back in and he was sort of asked to hey,
[7:44] Speaker 1: kickstart the rhythm, and it's like and he did hit
[7:47] Speaker 1: a three, But it's weird when when he is whereas
[7:51] Speaker 1: Brunson doesn't control the pace, he controls them scoring. Halliburton
[7:54] Speaker 1: can control scoring and the pace. So when you take
[7:56] Speaker 1: him out and then you insert him back and it's like, okay, now, guys,
[8:00] Speaker 1: I'm gonna change the pace of this, and he tried
[8:03] Speaker 1: and he does, but it just didn't. It felt clunky
[8:07] Speaker 1: and it felt like they were playing uphill. Yeah.
[8:11] Speaker 2: I just.
[8:13] Speaker 1: This is a hard series to officiate. Just give me
[8:16] Speaker 1: a minute on this. Siakam had a great block on McBride.
[8:19] Speaker 1: They call it, they called the foul in it, and
[8:21] Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, good God, that's ridiculous. The Biggs, I
[8:25] Speaker 1: mean Turner and Cat and uh Siakam, especially Siakam and Cat.
[8:33] Speaker 1: They're aggressive offensive players with a nice touch. There was
[8:38] Speaker 1: so many calls going against the Knicks in the second half,
[8:42] Speaker 1: third quarter. I'm like, oh, this is this is They're
[8:45] Speaker 1: gonna blow a gasket here. And then I thought a
[8:47] Speaker 1: couple went against the Pacers late. I think this is
[8:50] Speaker 1: a hard series to officiate. New York's a good defensive team.
[8:54] Speaker 1: Indiana is an underrated defensive team. And the Bigs move
[8:59] Speaker 1: and they collide and I don't know. As I watched
[9:02] Speaker 1: this game about and I'm not a guy that bangs
[9:04] Speaker 1: on officials, but I was like, man, there were a
[9:06] Speaker 1: lot of calls going against the Necks for a stretch
[9:09] Speaker 1: in this game.
[9:09] Speaker 2: I thought, no, absolutely, That's why I wasn't upset about
[9:13] Speaker 2: the Siaka one, Like Siaka block Deuce McBride clean. That
[9:16] Speaker 2: was a great defensive play, should not have been a foul.
[9:18] Speaker 2: But there were like three or four calls against against
[9:21] Speaker 2: the Knicks in that fourth quarter where I was like, yeah,
[9:25] Speaker 2: to the point you're making, what makes this series so
[9:27] Speaker 2: hard to officiate is on the one hand, you've got Brunson,
[9:29] Speaker 2: who's one of the most gifted foul grifters in the NBA.
[9:32] Speaker 2: And then on the other side, the Pacers just play
[9:35] Speaker 2: so fast and there's so much running that you kind
[9:37] Speaker 2: of have to put your body in the way you
[9:39] Speaker 2: have to. If you don't, they're just gonna cut you
[9:41] Speaker 2: to pieces. And so there's a lot of these like
[9:43] Speaker 2: kind of bang bang contact plays where a dude comes
[9:46] Speaker 2: flying downhill or tries to turn the corner on a
[9:48] Speaker 2: drive and you try to position yourself in front and
[9:51] Speaker 2: take the contact, and they're getting called for fouls in
[9:53] Speaker 2: a lot of those situations, and it is a very
[9:55] Speaker 2: difficult series to officiate. But what causes those fouls, to
[9:59] Speaker 2: your point, is the speed in the pace. And if
[10:01] Speaker 2: there's one thing to credit the Knicks for in this
[10:04] Speaker 2: fourth quarter that, like you said, there was a six
[10:06] Speaker 2: minute stretch there where You're like, why is Aaron Nesmith
[10:09] Speaker 2: trying to play bully ball against joshuar Ojananobi, Like o
[10:14] Speaker 2: Jananoby's you know, four inches taller than you and at
[10:18] Speaker 2: least thirty pounds heavier, Like you're not gonna go through
[10:20] Speaker 2: his chest to get to the rim. And there was
[10:23] Speaker 2: a little bit too much of like siakam Iso, a
[10:26] Speaker 2: little too much of like Tyrese Halliburton dribbling out of
[10:29] Speaker 2: ball screens instead of passing out of ball screens like
[10:31] Speaker 2: he always does. I thought Indiana kind of lost their
[10:34] Speaker 2: identity for a minute in that fourth quarter. By the way,
[10:37] Speaker 2: like that's a credit to Karl Anthony Towns. I'm a
[10:39] Speaker 2: big believer in this colin I'm I think basketball is
[10:42] Speaker 2: more art than science. I think there is a lot
[10:44] Speaker 2: of like psychological dynamics at play in any given moment.
[10:48] Speaker 2: And like when Luca rolls up into your building in
[10:51] Speaker 2: the first quarter in an elimination game and scorees seventeen
[10:55] Speaker 2: points and hits three logo threes, it just SAPs you
[10:58] Speaker 2: of all your energy. Like even I thought Brunson and
[11:02] Speaker 2: kat both kind of were succumbing to that over the
[11:04] Speaker 2: course of this game. Brunson was having a rough night.
[11:06] Speaker 2: Cat was having a rough night. What happened in that
[11:09] Speaker 2: fourth quarter was Kat threw one hell of a punch
[11:13] Speaker 2: and he's dunking on everybody and hitting step back threes,
[11:16] Speaker 2: and you could tell Indiana was just shaken at that.
[11:20] Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean there was a point in the first
[11:21] Speaker 1: half when Indiana and by twenty and they got into
[11:25] Speaker 1: this like six or eight transition run where it was
[11:31] Speaker 1: like three fast rates, bang bang, and I'm like, all
[11:34] Speaker 1: the game's over. The series is over. I mean, I
[11:36] Speaker 1: would have bet my four oh one kid at that moment.
[11:38] Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, the series is over. It's done. The
[11:41] Speaker 1: body language Brunson didn't seem engaged, and I'm like, okay,
[11:44] Speaker 1: this it's done. So i mean, you got to give
[11:47] Speaker 1: the next credit. I you know, it's just it's I
[11:50] Speaker 1: think to your point, it's probably the series now probably
[11:54] Speaker 1: closer to what it should be. So you go back
[11:56] Speaker 1: to Game one, the Knicks absolutely outplayed him, and and
[12:02] Speaker 1: going even into this game, I was with friends tonight
[12:04] Speaker 1: in the in the first quarter, a little cookout at
[12:06] Speaker 1: their house. We were watching the game, and it was
[12:10] Speaker 1: like it was one of the people there was not
[12:13] Speaker 1: a basketball fan, and I said, oh, this series has
[12:15] Speaker 1: just come down to the last six minutes. I said,
[12:17] Speaker 1: one team's great defensively, one's very good offensively. There's about
[12:22] Speaker 1: six really good players combined. I said, it'll be close.
[12:24] Speaker 1: It'll be a four point game. I thought Indiana would win.
[12:28] Speaker 1: But I also think one of the things that was
[12:30] Speaker 1: good for the NBA tonight is that you're seeing a
[12:32] Speaker 1: lot of road teams win playoff games. They've been a
[12:35] Speaker 1: ton I mean Indiana obviously, my entire life, even as
[12:41] Speaker 1: an NBA fan, I always felt like the home team
[12:43] Speaker 1: got the whistle, and I just like seeing road teams win.
[12:48] Speaker 1: I think it just I think it's just better for
[12:50] Speaker 1: basketball when the road team wins. I mean, I think
[12:52] Speaker 1: it's just funny now that the Knicks can't win it
[12:55] Speaker 1: home and the Basers now are winning everywhere but home,
[12:59] Speaker 1: and I think it's just good. It makes the series captivating.
[13:02] Speaker 1: I'm interested to watch the Pacers come out in Game
[13:07] Speaker 1: four because my take is they're gonna try to push
[13:11] Speaker 1: the pace again because they they walked into that locker
[13:13] Speaker 1: room and they're like, we lost our way at home
[13:17] Speaker 1: in a game that could have clinched the series, Like
[13:19] Speaker 1: they just lost their way credit the next defense, But
[13:22] Speaker 1: that was as bad as Indiana's looked offensively for a
[13:24] Speaker 1: six to eight minute stretch the entire series.
[13:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the most interesting thing looking back at
[13:31] Speaker 2: this is the Celtics series looks so weird in retrospect
[13:34] Speaker 2: now with the Knicks having won that series and then
[13:37] Speaker 2: looking bad for you know, the majority of this series.
[13:40] Speaker 2: Because I'm with you, like I think Indiana is. I
[13:43] Speaker 2: think Indiana is gonna come out in Game four and
[13:45] Speaker 2: throw their best punch, and I think it's gonna be
[13:47] Speaker 2: a very difficult game for the Knicks to win. That
[13:50] Speaker 2: Like the game I pointed to is the Calves Game four.
[13:53] Speaker 2: Calves went into Indiana in Game three and blew them out.
[13:56] Speaker 2: And that's not a that's not that's a sixty four
[13:58] Speaker 2: when Leyden roster that went into Indy and suffered one
[14:03] Speaker 2: of the most humiliating blowouts that we've ever seen in
[14:06] Speaker 2: the NBA when they were trailing eighty to thirty nine
[14:09] Speaker 2: at the end of the first half. So Indiana is
[14:11] Speaker 2: gonna come out and they're going to throw their best punch.
[14:13] Speaker 2: What's fascinating to me is coming into this series. I
[14:17] Speaker 2: mentioned to you on your show that I thought the
[14:20] Speaker 2: Pacers were better on offense and better on defense than
[14:23] Speaker 2: the Knicks, and that was why I thought that they
[14:24] Speaker 2: would win the series. But interestingly enough, this is a
[14:27] Speaker 2: Knicks team that's kind of had mediocre results for the
[14:31] Speaker 2: majority of this season, and they beat the Celtics. And
[14:34] Speaker 2: what's fascinating to me now as I look back on
[14:37] Speaker 2: this all is there's kind of a range of outcomes
[14:39] Speaker 2: for all of these teams, and the Pacers are a
[14:42] Speaker 2: team that pretty consistently hits their ceiling. They're not like
[14:45] Speaker 2: what you saw tonight was very out of the out
[14:47] Speaker 2: of character for them. The Knicks, I've seen them a
[14:51] Speaker 2: half dozen times each in this postseason look like a
[14:54] Speaker 2: putrid defense and look like an awesome defense, like at
[14:57] Speaker 2: multiple different points in this postseason, they've kind of oscillated
[15:01] Speaker 2: back and forth between those two ideas. They just have
[15:04] Speaker 2: a wide range of outcomes. And so we've all known
[15:07] Speaker 2: that the Knicks can have defensive stretches like they had
[15:09] Speaker 2: in that fourth quarter tonight. They did it to Boston
[15:11] Speaker 2: multiple times. They can fly around in rotation and contest
[15:15] Speaker 2: shots and do all of that stuff. They just can't
[15:17] Speaker 2: sustain it. And so Ultimately, as you zoom out from
[15:20] Speaker 2: the series, the Pacers are up to one and they
[15:22] Speaker 2: are more likely to sustain their peak level of play.
[15:26] Speaker 2: Yes moving forward, and it makes some assaye for Bet
[15:28] Speaker 2: to win the series.
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[15:33] Speaker 1: every play could be the one that changes everything. This
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[17:02] Speaker 1: Okay Western Conference Game three pretty much unwatchable blowout and
[17:07] Speaker 1: and you know there's a there's a way Minnesota has
[17:11] Speaker 1: to play to beat Okay. See and they played it.
[17:13] Speaker 1: They did a lot of It's what's funny is it's
[17:18] Speaker 1: hard to find anybody that likes watching OKAC play. You know,
[17:22] Speaker 1: they're they're kind of hovering defense where they kind of
[17:25] Speaker 1: they swarm on you. I think you said it's almost
[17:29] Speaker 1: collegiate looking the way they play defense, and then it's
[17:32] Speaker 1: a lot of you know, drawing fouls s J. I
[17:36] Speaker 1: don't think they're a fun watch. I just think they're
[17:39] Speaker 1: really athletic and really deep. Do I am I supposed
[17:43] Speaker 1: to take anything beyond just a desperate, well coached team
[17:48] Speaker 1: in Minnesota ant crazy and it was just a young
[17:52] Speaker 1: team lessen really feeling their oats and just got overwhelmed
[17:58] Speaker 1: and just packed it it. I mean, it is anything
[18:01] Speaker 1: more than that.
[18:03] Speaker 2: I think there was some more in the sense that
[18:06] Speaker 2: I think that Oklahoma City's a better team than Minnesota,
[18:08] Speaker 2: but I also don't think they were the type of
[18:10] Speaker 2: team that should blow them out multiple times in a
[18:12] Speaker 2: row the way they did in Game one. In Game two,
[18:14] Speaker 2: Chris Finch was running what I thought was an extremely
[18:18] Speaker 2: foolish game plan through the first two games. The gist
[18:21] Speaker 2: of it is, if I asked you what Shae Gildes
[18:24] Speaker 2: Alexander's strongest traits are as a basketball player, you'd say
[18:28] Speaker 2: he's probably the best driver of the basketball in the league,
[18:32] Speaker 2: and he's just like the best isolation player in the league.
[18:35] Speaker 2: He was like of all isolation players who attempted at
[18:37] Speaker 2: least three hundred shots. He was number one by a
[18:39] Speaker 2: mile this year. And so what Chris Finch was doing
[18:43] Speaker 2: was picking up Shay at half court and letting him
[18:46] Speaker 2: play one on one, staying glued home to shooters. And
[18:48] Speaker 2: it was just like gift wrapping Shae, the perfect environment
[18:52] Speaker 2: for him to thrive on. And it was hilarious juxtaposed
[18:55] Speaker 2: with a Denver series where we saw the exact opposite
[18:58] Speaker 2: game plan with lesser defense of personnel have a great
[19:01] Speaker 2: deal of success. Now they won by forty because yes,
[19:04] Speaker 2: there was an urgency gap, and they shot a lot
[19:07] Speaker 2: better and there were a lot like Anthony Edwards was
[19:10] Speaker 2: hitting shots over triple teams in the second half, Like yeah,
[19:13] Speaker 2: that was what it caused it to manifest in a
[19:15] Speaker 2: destructive blowout. But right away to start that game, one
[19:18] Speaker 2: of the reasons why they were able to quickly assert
[19:21] Speaker 2: control and hold Oklahoma City. I think they held him
[19:23] Speaker 2: to fifteen points in the first quarter. The reason why
[19:26] Speaker 2: was they immediately dropped back to Denver's game plan. They
[19:30] Speaker 2: had Jaden meet Shay inside the three point line because again,
[19:34] Speaker 2: if you ball pressure a player, it's the easiest time
[19:37] Speaker 2: to drive past them because you're being forward aggressive as
[19:40] Speaker 2: a defender, so of course she's going to go right
[19:42] Speaker 2: around you. He's literally the best. He drove to the
[19:45] Speaker 2: basket more than two hundred times more than the second
[19:48] Speaker 2: best driver in the league this year, Colin. That's like
[19:50] Speaker 2: almost four times a game. He's far and away the
[19:53] Speaker 2: best driver. You can't pick him up that far. He's
[19:56] Speaker 2: gonna go right around you. Jaden sat back and then
[19:59] Speaker 2: they start pack in the paint off of shooters, and
[20:02] Speaker 2: so as a result, it looked like the Denver game,
[20:05] Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, it turned into Oklahoma City's
[20:07] Speaker 2: role players needing to knock down threes in Shae having
[20:11] Speaker 2: to make tougher decisions in the lane about whether or
[20:13] Speaker 2: not he wanted to shoot over some double and triple
[20:15] Speaker 2: teams where he can have some shortcomings. Because if I
[20:18] Speaker 2: asked you what Shae's biggest weaknesses are, it's probably his
[20:23] Speaker 2: three point shooting, yeah, and his ability to process in
[20:27] Speaker 2: traffic in the lane. Now, he's still pretty good at
[20:29] Speaker 2: those things, but they're not his strengths. And in that
[20:32] Speaker 2: end of the first half, he was one for four
[20:34] Speaker 2: from three, he had four turnovers. He finished the game
[20:37] Speaker 2: I think four for fifteen from the field. Colin. Only
[20:40] Speaker 2: eight times all season did Shae shoot below forty percent
[20:44] Speaker 2: from the field. He is one of the most consistently
[20:46] Speaker 2: efficient scorers in basketball. They held him to thirty one
[20:49] Speaker 2: percent in that game. So there definitely was a better
[20:51] Speaker 2: game plan and so as a result, I think Game
[20:53] Speaker 2: four will be a closer, more tightly contested game because
[20:57] Speaker 2: they're running the right game plan for this time well.
[20:59] Speaker 1: And I think one of the vulnerabilities of OKAC is
[21:02] Speaker 1: young teams role players are generally not as good on
[21:07] Speaker 1: the road in the playoffs, and that's exactly what you saw.
[21:09] Speaker 1: Like we've talked about this before. Role players at home
[21:12] Speaker 1: are just different players they play. They need that confidence,
[21:14] Speaker 1: they need the swagger of the crowd. Steph Curry doesn't
[21:17] Speaker 1: and doesn't. And I think when you force Oklahoma City
[21:20] Speaker 1: and you just say okay, okay, young guys, hit your
[21:22] Speaker 1: shots on the road, loud crowd, it's hard, there's a history,
[21:27] Speaker 1: it's like, really really hard. And I also think, and
[21:30] Speaker 1: I also think when you're playing a team like Okay
[21:35] Speaker 1: See so much, I wonder about sometimes Okay See is
[21:40] Speaker 1: so good defensively and so swarming and so frenetic. I
[21:44] Speaker 1: do wonder if Minnesota players tend to spend so much
[21:49] Speaker 1: of their on court time thinking about that. So much
[21:53] Speaker 1: of playing OKAC is deciphering their defense and figuring out
[21:58] Speaker 1: I mean, you have to really be you have to
[22:01] Speaker 1: already be intentional when you play them defensively, because they
[22:04] Speaker 1: can trap you, they can make you look bad fast.
[22:06] Speaker 1: And so I think sometimes when you play okay See,
[22:10] Speaker 1: they don't play like a lot of other teams. Nobody
[22:13] Speaker 1: quite plays like them, and I think they can get
[22:16] Speaker 1: into your headspace and it's why. And then you go
[22:19] Speaker 1: on the road and they and now they lead by
[22:22] Speaker 1: six and SGA is getting the whistle. I do feel something,
[22:26] Speaker 1: and I don't know what the numbers say, but I
[22:27] Speaker 1: do feel like OKAC is like Indiana. I get the
[22:31] Speaker 1: same team, the same team. I got enough veteran I
[22:34] Speaker 1: feel with Oklahoma City they're a vulnerable road team. I've
[22:37] Speaker 1: got a shot. You know, Denver. They didn't look quite
[22:41] Speaker 1: the same at Denver. Now maybe it's altitude. Now, maybe
[22:44] Speaker 1: I'm wrong on this, and the splits don't say that,
[22:46] Speaker 1: but I do feel like a Oka See is a
[22:49] Speaker 1: vulnerable team on the road that you can win your
[22:52] Speaker 1: home games against them.
[22:53] Speaker 2: They're three and three Collins and their defense. Their offense
[22:57] Speaker 2: falls all the way down to a one oh four offensive, right,
[23:00] Speaker 2: that's brutally bad, and their defense slides all the way
[23:03] Speaker 2: up to one twelve, which is pretty bad for them.
[23:06] Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, you're not what you're onto is
[23:08] Speaker 2: what's really been happening with them?
[23:09] Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yep, they're a different offense on the road.
[23:14] Speaker 1: They don't feel like the same team. And that doesn't
[23:16] Speaker 1: surprise us because they're young and they and they play
[23:19] Speaker 1: with huge energy at home. But when I watch them
[23:21] Speaker 1: on the road at Denver a couple of times, I'm like,
[23:24] Speaker 1: it just doesn't feel the same. It's a different I
[23:26] Speaker 1: honestly feel of all the teams left, I get the
[23:29] Speaker 1: exact same team with minutes with Indiana, except for six
[23:33] Speaker 1: minutes tonight. I feel like I get this exact same
[23:36] Speaker 1: Pacer squad home and away. They want to run if
[23:39] Speaker 1: they can't, you know, I just, okay, see, of all
[23:42] Speaker 1: the four teams left, I feel like I get a
[23:44] Speaker 1: different OKAC team home and away.
[23:48] Speaker 2: To your point about adjusting to Okac's defense too, Like
[23:51] Speaker 2: I thought, Aunt and Julius did a poor job in
[23:54] Speaker 2: the first two games of attacking their defense, like I
[23:56] Speaker 2: call in like because Oklahoma City's defense, I don't know
[23:59] Speaker 2: if you like just stare at any possession. Shay's ignoring
[24:02] Speaker 2: whoever he's guarding, just sitting in the basket. They've got three, four,
[24:06] Speaker 2: sometimes five guys in the paint on like every single drive.
[24:08] Speaker 2: They're daring Minnesota to take and make corner threes in
[24:11] Speaker 2: this series and in the like when after Game one
[24:15] Speaker 2: when Ant was like, I vowed to be more aggressive,
[24:17] Speaker 2: I'm like, that's not the answer. They're like, you're gonna
[24:21] Speaker 2: just drive into the teeth of the defense and you're
[24:22] Speaker 2: gonna take bad shots. And by the way, in the
[24:24] Speaker 2: first half of Game two, he took eighteen shots and
[24:28] Speaker 2: had sixteen points to show for it. What was kind
[24:31] Speaker 2: of fascinating about the flow of this series is to
[24:33] Speaker 2: your point, you start to get more comfortable as you adjust.
[24:37] Speaker 2: Aunt and Julius were awesome in Game three, especially early
[24:40] Speaker 2: at making those corner kicks, and they were finally knocking
[24:43] Speaker 2: down those corner threes. They have had three games worth
[24:47] Speaker 2: of experience against Oklahoma City's base defensive scheme, and they're
[24:51] Speaker 2: starting to figure it out a little bit. Oklahoma City
[24:54] Speaker 2: saw that bad game plan for two games and then
[24:57] Speaker 2: Finch throws the appropriate game plan in game three, and
[25:00] Speaker 2: they looked like completely shell shocked by it. I mean, Colin,
[25:03] Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw it. In Game one,
[25:05] Speaker 2: Oklahoma City only took like twenty threes and the reason
[25:08] Speaker 2: why is because they were staying glued off the ball
[25:11] Speaker 2: and letting Shay play one on one. It's it's such
[25:15] Speaker 2: a fundamentally different defensive game plan that Minnesota is rocking
[25:18] Speaker 2: from this point forward now. To be clear, in Game four,
[25:21] Speaker 2: by the way, via DraftKings. All of our odds are
[25:23] Speaker 2: from DraftKings. Oklahoma City is a three point favorite in
[25:26] Speaker 2: Game four, and that feels right to me. I think
[25:28] Speaker 2: it's gonna be a close game. They're gonna bring an
[25:30] Speaker 2: intense defensive effort right away out the gates. That's gonna
[25:34] Speaker 2: test Aunt and Julius's decision making again. And then you're
[25:37] Speaker 2: gonna see Oklahoma City, because they have seen this defense
[25:40] Speaker 2: before with Denver. You're gonna see them kind of come
[25:43] Speaker 2: into the game prepared for that game plan. That said,
[25:46] Speaker 2: and this is the one thing I'd say, like, I
[25:47] Speaker 2: think Minnesota has a much better chance of beating Oklahoma
[25:50] Speaker 2: City from this point forward than the Knicks do with
[25:53] Speaker 2: the Pacers, because what Minnesota can bring to the table
[25:57] Speaker 2: is Denver caut problems for OKC was some weak defensive personnel.
[26:02] Speaker 2: Minnesota's got a bunch of really good defenders out there,
[26:06] Speaker 2: and so if they properly execute this game plan, they
[26:09] Speaker 2: could potentially do some real damage. And as long as
[26:12] Speaker 2: they ride that momentum going forward in the series. There's
[26:15] Speaker 2: also a little bit of like a Aunt straight up
[26:18] Speaker 2: can be unguardable sometimes with some of the shots that
[26:21] Speaker 2: he can make, and like he was just better than
[26:23] Speaker 2: Shay in Game three, and if he can maintain that,
[26:25] Speaker 2: that would be the other thing that could swing things
[26:27] Speaker 2: back towards Minnesota.
[26:28] Speaker 1: You know, it's funny segue back to the Knicks Pacers.
[26:32] Speaker 1: And I was watching the Pacers when they took that
[26:35] Speaker 1: twenty point first half lead, and they were just transition
[26:38] Speaker 1: basketball at its best. Just I mean, they score fast,
[26:42] Speaker 1: and I was thinking, don't fall for it, Colin, don't
[26:46] Speaker 1: fall for it, because a couple of years ago Denver
[26:48] Speaker 1: won the title and I'm like, oh, they're gonna reel
[26:50] Speaker 1: off like three, and then Bruce Brown left and then
[26:53] Speaker 1: casep and they didn't. I mean, they didn't have a
[26:56] Speaker 1: great bench to begin with, and now it's a bad
[26:58] Speaker 1: bench and they become you know, Murray gets hurt. And
[27:01] Speaker 1: I've never been a huge Michael Porter fan. I've always been.
[27:04] Speaker 1: I always think Aaron Gordon's underrated Porter to me, just
[27:07] Speaker 1: I think he's the nod fit and a bit overpaid.
[27:12] Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden you look up and
[27:13] Speaker 1: Denver just looks good. And I watched Indiana, I said,
[27:18] Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, God, I love watching them play.
[27:22] Speaker 1: But as I watch all of these teams, even Oklahoma City,
[27:26] Speaker 1: and we've just stated it there, they're the one team
[27:28] Speaker 1: that you get a different version on the road. They're
[27:31] Speaker 1: not nearly as good as they are at home. Is
[27:34] Speaker 1: that I feel like whoever wins this year will not
[27:40] Speaker 1: win the following year. And I first of all, there's
[27:43] Speaker 1: gonna be ay honest move. KD could go to the Knicks.
[27:46] Speaker 1: They could get another basket. You know, if they moved
[27:48] Speaker 1: off Karl Anthony Towns at his flakiness and just said
[27:50] Speaker 1: we're gonna go get Durant. We'll let Carl go, We'll
[27:54] Speaker 1: keep Robinson, he is what he is, but we'll have
[27:56] Speaker 1: Durant at the in the game late, so we can
[27:59] Speaker 1: we can live with them. I feel like the Pacers
[28:03] Speaker 1: feel a little bit like the Nuggets. I'm falling in love,
[28:06] Speaker 1: like I fell in love with Jokic and Gordon. I'm like, God,
[28:09] Speaker 1: I love this team, but it wasn't as sustainable. It
[28:12] Speaker 1: was very Jokicic dominant. And Murray, you know, he's just
[28:16] Speaker 1: one of those players that I like a lot, I
[28:18] Speaker 1: don't love, and I kind of feel like with Indiana,
[28:21] Speaker 1: I'm falling for it because and I'm doing this because
[28:24] Speaker 1: it's like confirmation bias. I love watching them play, and
[28:26] Speaker 1: so I'm talking myself into Indiana's great. But then I
[28:31] Speaker 1: watched them and I think to myself, no, they're not great.
[28:36] Speaker 1: What they have as a remarkable player in Halliburton, and
[28:40] Speaker 1: what Denver had is a remarkable player in Jokic, And
[28:43] Speaker 1: what Minnesota has as a remarkable player in Ant and
[28:46] Speaker 1: Brunson's one of the great small closers in the game
[28:48] Speaker 1: is I think this is what the NBA is going
[28:51] Speaker 1: to be, is that everybody's going to have a great
[28:53] Speaker 1: player and a very good too. But the days of
[28:56] Speaker 1: having three guys that you can depend on I just think, Jason,
[29:01] Speaker 1: I think it's over. I just don't think that multiple aprons.
[29:04] Speaker 1: I don't think they allow it. And so those teams
[29:07] Speaker 1: are just going to eventually get beat. They'll come in
[29:10] Speaker 1: as a favorite, they'll have it, they'll have an injury,
[29:13] Speaker 1: they'll lose a bench guy, and it's just funny watching
[29:16] Speaker 1: Indiana tonight. I'm like, oh boy, this team, this team,
[29:20] Speaker 1: I thought, wait, put the brakes on Jesus. They can't
[29:22] Speaker 1: even get to the next tonight. What if I took
[29:25] Speaker 1: these four teams, all things considered, and I said, one
[29:30] Speaker 1: of them will win multiple titles? Are you set on Okac?
[29:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, He's the only team that could theoretically keep
[29:37] Speaker 2: this kind of talent accumulated for long enough. Like Indiana
[29:40] Speaker 2: is already going to face some tough questions coming up, Like, Okay,
[29:42] Speaker 2: Miles Turner is kind of very important to the way
[29:45] Speaker 2: we play offense. Are we going to pay because Miles,
[29:48] Speaker 2: guess what call it? Starting center money in the NBA
[29:51] Speaker 2: now is like thirty million a year. Like that's like
[29:53] Speaker 2: the baseline, Like we're starting the discussion at thirty million
[29:55] Speaker 2: a year. That's what Isaia Hartenstein got. And if I'm
[29:58] Speaker 2: Miles Hard, Miles Turner's agent. I'm going to him like
[30:00] Speaker 2: thirty is the basement, Like, so are you gonna how
[30:04] Speaker 2: are you gonna continue to build around Nie Smith, who,
[30:06] Speaker 2: by the by the way, Nie Smith is a dude
[30:08] Speaker 2: who just stole you a playoff game, who's averaging fifteen
[30:11] Speaker 2: points a game in this playoff run is your primary
[30:13] Speaker 2: point of attack, defender and shooting forty five percent from three.
[30:16] Speaker 2: That's a twenty five million dollar player, Like Halliburton's a
[30:19] Speaker 2: super Max player. Nemhard, you could argue as a twenty
[30:22] Speaker 2: million dollar player. Siakam is a forty million dollar player.
[30:25] Speaker 2: Like It just gets really difficult to maintain the payrolls
[30:28] Speaker 2: in these In these situations, the thing with Oklahoma City
[30:31] Speaker 2: is they're going to run into that problem in a
[30:33] Speaker 2: couple of years. They can theoretically win this year, run
[30:37] Speaker 2: it back, win again, run it back, but it will
[30:41] Speaker 2: be a shorter window relative to previous entities like this
[30:45] Speaker 2: because of the fact that eventually they're gonna have to
[30:47] Speaker 2: pay j Dubb Cason. Wallace is looking a lot like
[30:50] Speaker 2: a twenty five million dollar player to me, right, like
[30:52] Speaker 2: Jed Holmgren's a forty million dollar player. Ja Dub's gonna
[30:55] Speaker 2: be a forty million dollar play. Like, they're all just
[30:58] Speaker 2: so good that inevitably going to have to pay all
[31:00] Speaker 2: these dudes, and it's just going to become impossible to
[31:02] Speaker 2: maintain the roster. Now there's a second conversation to have
[31:06] Speaker 2: as it pertains to whether or not the league should
[31:08] Speaker 2: pivot from this structure because it penalizes smartly run NBA teams.
[31:13] Speaker 2: But yeah, on the other three teams Indiana, New York, Minnesota,
[31:18] Speaker 2: there's no chance to like sustain success because of just
[31:21] Speaker 2: how expensive it is to have. Like you talk about
[31:25] Speaker 2: a playoff rotation, you want six guys you can definitely
[31:29] Speaker 2: trust and probably a seventh that you can kind of trust.
[31:34] Speaker 2: And it's like a playoff guy you can trust is
[31:36] Speaker 2: a bare minimum twenty million in the open market. So like,
[31:39] Speaker 2: it's just very difficult to find the means with which
[31:41] Speaker 2: to maintain this. And Oklahoma City will have draft picks.
[31:45] Speaker 2: They can supplement it with draft picks, but a draft
[31:48] Speaker 2: pick isn't going to be able to impact winning at
[31:49] Speaker 2: a playoff level right away, And you can try trading them,
[31:53] Speaker 2: but it's just going to bring back expensive contracts. It's
[31:55] Speaker 2: just kind of the reality of the situation. I will
[31:57] Speaker 2: say with the Knicks, Colin I, I think there's a
[32:00] Speaker 2: lot of interesting Kevin Durant potential destinations. I think the
[32:04] Speaker 2: Knicks are one. I also kind of think the Pacers
[32:06] Speaker 2: are one. One of the reasons why I like the
[32:08] Speaker 2: Pacers is like, I don't think the Pacers have much
[32:11] Speaker 2: of a chance at all to beat Oklahoma City. I
[32:14] Speaker 2: think it's a horrible matchup for them. Oklahoma City has
[32:17] Speaker 2: six lightning fast guards that can chase all their guards around,
[32:20] Speaker 2: and they could switch everything, and they also have im protection,
[32:24] Speaker 2: and they have all the offensive talent to be able
[32:26] Speaker 2: to score on them. I worry about the Pacers' ability
[32:30] Speaker 2: to get a bucket against a team that can keep
[32:32] Speaker 2: them in front. And they're a team like if I
[32:35] Speaker 2: just had a better version of Siakam, I all of
[32:38] Speaker 2: a sudden view them as a more substantial title threat,
[32:40] Speaker 2: and so like, they're a team that I could see like, Okay,
[32:43] Speaker 2: we're a little older, Miles Turner's kind of older. We
[32:45] Speaker 2: need to make some sort of win now move to
[32:48] Speaker 2: capitalize on this before it gets too expensive. I could
[32:50] Speaker 2: see KD being that guy for them as well. There's
[32:52] Speaker 2: a bunch of teams where KD could immediately raise their ceiling.
[33:00] Speaker 1: Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up to
[33:02] Speaker 1: them is the right thing to do. So you know
[33:04] Speaker 1: Degree cool Rush deodorant right, Well, last year they changed
[33:07] Speaker 1: the formula and it did not go over well with
[33:09] Speaker 1: their fans. So Degrees whole thing is it turns up
[33:12] Speaker 1: the sweat and odor protection when you turn up the effort,
[33:15] Speaker 1: and good thing it does. Because cool Rush fans really
[33:18] Speaker 1: turned up the effort to bring the original formula back.
[33:20] Speaker 1: One guy even started an online petition and Degree listened.
[33:23] Speaker 1: They admitted they fed up. They're bringing back the original
[33:26] Speaker 1: cool Rush scent. They're bringing it back and it's exactly
[33:28] Speaker 1: how you remember it, cool, crisp and fresh. It's back
[33:30] Speaker 1: in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under four dollars.
[33:34] Speaker 1: There's a reason that's been the number one men's anti
[33:36] Speaker 1: persprint for the last decade. It's the same reason why
[33:38] Speaker 1: people were not happy when it changed. So if you've
[33:41] Speaker 1: never tried it, it might be a good time to
[33:42] Speaker 1: see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart,
[33:45] Speaker 1: Target and try the og degree cool Rush for yourself.
[33:50] Speaker 1: And now for our next segment, whiskey business. Yes, whiskey business,
[33:53] Speaker 1: brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey
[33:56] Speaker 1: of the Colin Coward Podcast. Okay, I want to bring
[33:59] Speaker 1: this up. We can close on this because I saw
[34:02] Speaker 1: this today. It's fascinating. So a university professor in finance
[34:10] Speaker 1: looked up the value of Caitlin Clark for the WNBA.
[34:14] Speaker 1: This is insane. So this year, last season in the WNBA,
[34:24] Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark was twenty six and a half percent of
[34:28] Speaker 1: all economic activity as a rookie on the worst team
[34:34] Speaker 1: in the league when she entered it. So now she
[34:38] Speaker 1: has an eight year, one hundred and twenty eight million
[34:40] Speaker 1: dollar deal with Nike, so you know she's she's gonna
[34:43] Speaker 1: eat merchandise in the league. Went up off a rookie
[34:50] Speaker 1: from a Midwest based school on the worst team in
[34:52] Speaker 1: the league two hundred and thirty four percent. But here
[34:55] Speaker 1: was the one that struck me so before she got there,
[35:00] Speaker 1: the Indiana Fever, the valuation of the franchise was ninety million.
[35:05] Speaker 1: Remember they play a short season, it's not like the
[35:08] Speaker 1: NBA where it lasts like six months after playing what
[35:12] Speaker 1: forty games. The valuation of that team now is three
[35:16] Speaker 1: hundred and forty million dollars. She is almost.
[35:21] Speaker 2: That's what NBA teams were selling for ten years ago.
[35:25] Speaker 1: She has quaged loop holes ago the valuation, and I
[35:28] Speaker 1: was talking. I was with a group of friends tonight
[35:31] Speaker 1: at dinner, and people that didn't know the WNBA were
[35:35] Speaker 1: like asking, well, well, why, well what does she do?
[35:39] Speaker 1: And we said, well, she makes passes and take shots
[35:42] Speaker 1: that nobody else in the sport does. So she's a
[35:44] Speaker 1: bit of a It's like when Tiger Woods came on
[35:47] Speaker 1: the tour, Like he drove it further, He's long, putting
[35:50] Speaker 1: was better, he looked like a football player in the
[35:53] Speaker 1: red shirts, Like he just was different than every other
[35:55] Speaker 1: golfer you grew up with, and people like unique and different.
[36:02] Speaker 1: Here my question to you is there's still no other
[36:05] Speaker 1: Like somebody said at the party, well there'd be another
[36:07] Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark, and I'm like, well, there's not another Steph Curry.
[36:11] Speaker 1: Like there's guys that can shoot threes. I don't think
[36:15] Speaker 1: it's a game you duplicate. And I listen, let's just
[36:18] Speaker 1: be honest. There are more great male athletes in the
[36:20] Speaker 1: world than female athletes. There is no second Steph Curry
[36:24] Speaker 1: there is no other player that plays like that. My
[36:27] Speaker 1: take is she could be a billion dollar athlete. Are
[36:32] Speaker 1: you are you surprised by it? Like when I see
[36:38] Speaker 1: these numbers, I'm like, oh, this is Tiger in the tour.
[36:41] Speaker 1: This doesn't this isn't even Jordan, this is totally different.
[36:45] Speaker 2: Well, I think when you look at basketball, there are
[36:49] Speaker 2: two real kind of like ultimate show type of athletes
[36:54] Speaker 2: that you see, meaning like must see television. And it's
[36:58] Speaker 2: the supreme vertical athlete, which think like young Lebron or
[37:02] Speaker 2: kind of like Anthony Edwards now Dominique. Yeah, like the
[37:06] Speaker 2: guy that does stuff in the air that is unlike
[37:09] Speaker 2: anything you see anywhere else j And then the second
[37:13] Speaker 2: piece of it is just unbelievable shot making. Those are
[37:17] Speaker 2: the two things. Those are the two things that like
[37:20] Speaker 2: really bring eyes to television. To take it a step further,
[37:24] Speaker 2: there are two types of basketball players that I think
[37:27] Speaker 2: are far and away the most winning impact in the
[37:31] Speaker 2: current game of basketball. It's the big, strong playmaker think Lebron,
[37:38] Speaker 2: Luka Jokic, And it's the indomitable shooter, which there's really
[37:44] Speaker 2: only been Steph. I think those two types of players
[37:47] Speaker 2: are the players that give you the best chances to
[37:49] Speaker 2: win basketball games in the modern in the modern world. Now,
[37:52] Speaker 2: what makes it fascinating to me, because that's what Caitlyn
[37:54] Speaker 2: Clark is. She's a different type of player, and she
[37:57] Speaker 2: can do a lot of different types of things, but
[37:59] Speaker 2: she's a essentially bringing a Steph Curry like basketball impact
[38:04] Speaker 2: to the WNBA. It's really this simple. If you can
[38:07] Speaker 2: shoot the way that she shoots, so the way step shoots,
[38:09] Speaker 2: and you can perpetually be in motion running around, inevitably
[38:15] Speaker 2: there is an overreaction to your shooting ability. And we
[38:18] Speaker 2: see this all the time with Kaitlyn, just like you're
[38:21] Speaker 2: gonna see you're gonna see Aliah Boston get NonStop easy
[38:25] Speaker 2: buckets in the mid range or rolling to the basket,
[38:28] Speaker 2: because every time she sets a screen for Caitlin, her
[38:31] Speaker 2: defender is stepping up to guard Kaitlin because as she
[38:34] Speaker 2: comes off of that screen, if you're not there, she's
[38:37] Speaker 2: gonna shoot it and she's gonna make it. And so
[38:40] Speaker 2: there's a reaction that invert spacing in brings a four
[38:44] Speaker 2: on three because you bring multiple defenders away from the rim,
[38:49] Speaker 2: there's a four on three with a vacated paint and
[38:52] Speaker 2: because of that, there's a lot of easy opportunities to
[38:55] Speaker 2: score there. Like that's the thing with Steph Curry, Like,
[38:56] Speaker 2: Steph Curry is not the same shot maker that he
[38:59] Speaker 2: was for you years ago in twenty twenty one, but
[39:02] Speaker 2: just the simple threat of him running around gives the
[39:05] Speaker 2: Warriors a chance to score. And that's the thing. Like
[39:07] Speaker 2: Caitlyn hasn't even really started hitting shots yet this year
[39:10] Speaker 2: or the way that she's capable of, but everyone knows
[39:12] Speaker 2: she can and they guard her in that fashion. And
[39:15] Speaker 2: so to me, it's kind of like a proof of
[39:17] Speaker 2: concept in that if you can shoot and you can
[39:20] Speaker 2: run around the way that Steph does, and you can
[39:22] Speaker 2: strike fear into a defense in that way, the trickle
[39:26] Speaker 2: down effects with the way that defenses guard you just
[39:28] Speaker 2: make everything so much easier for her. And like you
[39:31] Speaker 2: could argue she's already the best offensive engine in the
[39:34] Speaker 2: WNBA and she's literally a second year player and like,
[39:37] Speaker 2: and she still has so much room to improve, Like
[39:39] Speaker 2: she still struggles with ball pressure, she still turns the
[39:42] Speaker 2: she turned the ball over too much against the Liberty
[39:44] Speaker 2: the other night. She still has a little bit of
[39:47] Speaker 2: an issue where she kind of cross fires across her face,
[39:49] Speaker 2: which makes it so she can only shoot going left.
[39:52] Speaker 2: She needs to build it out so that she can
[39:53] Speaker 2: shoot running to her right as well. But like, judging
[39:56] Speaker 2: by her psycho competitive attitude, she's probably gonna figure that
[40:00] Speaker 2: that stuff out in the next year or two and
[40:01] Speaker 2: then she'll be the best player in the league. And
[40:03] Speaker 2: so like, to me, it's just she fits the mold
[40:06] Speaker 2: of one of the most impactful types of basketball players
[40:09] Speaker 2: you can be today, which is the deadly movement shooter.
[40:13] Speaker 2: If you're a deadly movement shooter, it just opens up
[40:15] Speaker 2: so many things for an offense. And and honestly, I
[40:18] Speaker 2: just think I think she's musty television Colin. I've watched
[40:21] Speaker 2: all four of her games, and and I'm in my
[40:23] Speaker 2: busy season, Like you think i'd be taking a break.
[40:25] Speaker 2: My wife said to me the other day, She's like,
[40:27] Speaker 2: you're watching more basketball. I'm like, it's Katelyn Clark. We're
[40:29] Speaker 2: watching more basketball. Come over here, let's watch this.
[40:32] Speaker 1: Like she's incredible, and she's not getting she doesn't know
[40:35] Speaker 1: what's get the consistent great star whistle she I mean,
[40:38] Speaker 1: there's I think they're still kind of figuring out how
[40:42] Speaker 1: to officiate her right, Like like when you're when you know,
[40:47] Speaker 1: I've said this for years when I covered Shack and
[40:50] Speaker 1: Shack got fouled more than anybody I've ever seen. I mean,
[40:52] Speaker 1: it was insane. You just people bounced off Shack. Yolks
[40:55] Speaker 1: feel Yokic complains constantly like people are bouncing off me.
[40:59] Speaker 1: She doesn't quite get as favorable a whistle as you think,
[41:03] Speaker 1: so I think.
[41:05] Speaker 2: Neither does Staph too, That's the funny part.
[41:08] Speaker 1: Well, and I think I will give the WNBA credit.
[41:13] Speaker 1: They they just didn't understand the tsunami ever popularity, like
[41:16] Speaker 1: they didn't get the schedule, and you don't know what
[41:20] Speaker 1: you don't know. They've done a much better job to
[41:23] Speaker 1: I mean, all her games are on television. Every time
[41:26] Speaker 1: I turn on a WA every time I see a
[41:27] Speaker 1: promote promotion for the WNBA, it's Caitlin Clark. So they're there.
[41:31] Speaker 1: But I do think there's a process on. You know,
[41:34] Speaker 1: you're an official. You don't want to give her too
[41:36] Speaker 1: favorable a whistle because the players in the league will
[41:38] Speaker 1: resent her to some degree. She's getting all this attention
[41:42] Speaker 1: and I don't. And I will say this, I've defended
[41:44] Speaker 1: the w NBA with this baseball and the WNBA feel
[41:50] Speaker 1: ignored the NFL and the NBA. In college football they
[41:53] Speaker 1: get a lot of press, and baseball always feels like, hey,
[41:56] Speaker 1: we're America's pastime. So they're very insular, sometimes very provincial.
[42:01] Speaker 1: And the WNBA, similarly, you don't pay attention to us.
[42:04] Speaker 1: So there's part of it, like I get like they
[42:06] Speaker 1: sort of resent this one player. Nobody talks WNBA. They do,
[42:11] Speaker 1: and it's all her, you know. I remember when Tiger
[42:14] Speaker 1: was eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, coming on of the tour.
[42:17] Speaker 1: There were a lot of people in golf that were like,
[42:20] Speaker 1: could you guys show, could you talk in your sportscast
[42:22] Speaker 1: about anybody other than Tiger Woods? So she's not. Bryce
[42:25] Speaker 1: Harper came into baseball. He fought with an own teammate
[42:27] Speaker 1: in the dugout because it was like, oh, everybody wants
[42:30] Speaker 1: to talk to So I do defend the WNBA. Is
[42:34] Speaker 1: that I get if nobody paid attention to you for
[42:37] Speaker 1: twenty six years and now they do, and they feign
[42:41] Speaker 1: interest in the rest of the league. What we all
[42:43] Speaker 1: care about is Caitlin. So the animosity built up by players,
[42:48] Speaker 1: I give it a little bit of a pass, you know.
[42:51] Speaker 1: I think people are spending too much time on race.
[42:55] Speaker 1: You know, it is what it is. There's a million platforms,
[42:57] Speaker 1: a million opinions, but I I don't know. My take
[43:01] Speaker 1: is they're still in the adjustment period with Caitlin. How
[43:04] Speaker 1: to market, how to promote, how to officiate, how to defend,
[43:08] Speaker 1: and it's just fluid. That's what it feels like to me.
[43:12] Speaker 2: I think that like when I see the complaining, like
[43:15] Speaker 2: I saw some players complain and some members of the
[43:19] Speaker 2: media complain that she was on TV so much, and
[43:22] Speaker 2: let's just take us out, take fairness and just put
[43:25] Speaker 2: it to the side for a minute, like even with
[43:26] Speaker 2: Nike and giving Kaitlin a shoot like set that aside
[43:29] Speaker 2: for a minute and just focus on her being on television. Okay,
[43:33] Speaker 2: her being on television brought my eyes to it. I
[43:35] Speaker 2: didn't watch the WNBA. I have grown to really enjoy
[43:40] Speaker 2: watching WNBA basketball even when she's not on and they're
[43:44] Speaker 2: like Thenfista Collier became one of my favorite basketball players
[43:47] Speaker 2: watching her in the finals run last year. And what
[43:51] Speaker 2: brought me to the television was Caitlin. So like, let's
[43:54] Speaker 2: say that the league came out there like every Caitlyn
[43:56] Speaker 2: Clark games on national television, like, that's just what we're
[43:58] Speaker 2: going to do. Deal with it. That would be genius,
[44:01] Speaker 2: because the best way you can market the other WNBA
[44:04] Speaker 2: players is to have them play against Kaitlin Clark because
[44:07] Speaker 2: we'll all be watching. Okay, well, no one's covering the
[44:10] Speaker 2: rest of the league. Okay, but if you put Caitlin
[44:12] Speaker 2: on television and you get more people to watch, it
[44:15] Speaker 2: will create more WNBA fans. And we live in the
[44:19] Speaker 2: most colin I started making NBA content out of my
[44:22] Speaker 2: guest bedroom. Okay, you create a bunch of WNBA fans,
[44:26] Speaker 2: Passionate members of the media will originate from that mass
[44:30] Speaker 2: and will cover the league better, and overall, the league
[44:32] Speaker 2: will gain in popularity and gain and impact, and it
[44:35] Speaker 2: will become a momentous thing that carries forward and actually
[44:39] Speaker 2: does shine a big flashlight on the rest of the WNBA.
[44:42] Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark is the vehicle with which to microwave that,
[44:46] Speaker 2: to accelerate it, and to move it into a fast
[44:50] Speaker 2: track towards what could be a bright future for the WNBA.
[44:54] Speaker 2: It's great basketball, It's genuinely great basketball. She's the best
[44:59] Speaker 2: vehicle with which tow to elevate the sport. I think
[45:02] Speaker 2: anything they can do to put her on TV and
[45:03] Speaker 2: promote her is the best thing they could do for
[45:05] Speaker 2: the sport.
[45:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Connor McGregor UFC. You know, you knew it existed,
[45:10] Speaker 1: you'd seen fights, You started buying pay per view cards
[45:13] Speaker 1: and sitting through two and a half hours to get
[45:15] Speaker 1: to his fight, and then all of a sudden, you
[45:17] Speaker 1: found yourself a year later hooked on two other fighters
[45:20] Speaker 1: because Dana White would put the second most popular fighter
[45:23] Speaker 1: in the undercards. So all of a sudden, it's John
[45:26] Speaker 1: Jones into Connor McGregor and then they So it's just
[45:29] Speaker 1: basic marketing. And I've said before I do think the
[45:34] Speaker 1: WNBA women's basketball and I said this years ago in
[45:37] Speaker 1: FS one, probably five years ago. The sport was getting better.
[45:40] Speaker 1: The women were you know, several generations of women were
[45:44] Speaker 1: encouraged to play basketball and to be athletes, and nutritionists
[45:48] Speaker 1: came into the sport and better trainers. There was money
[45:50] Speaker 1: in the league, so they had better training and the
[45:53] Speaker 1: players were getting better. But it takes this, Listen, it
[45:57] Speaker 1: took Magic and Bird in the NBA to take a
[46:00] Speaker 1: league that there were some financial problems. So it's not
[46:03] Speaker 1: like a gender issue. It's a I mean, I I
[46:07] Speaker 1: think Connor McGregor's erosion as a fighter has hurt UFC.
[46:12] Speaker 1: It doesn't feel as urgent. And that's and that's already
[46:16] Speaker 1: established and so and we all know that Michael Jordan
[46:20] Speaker 1: left once Magic Bird and Michael had driven the league up,
[46:23] Speaker 1: Michael left, the ratings dropped fifty percent. So this stuff
[46:26] Speaker 1: outside of the NFL, it's all cyclical, it's all market based,
[46:31] Speaker 1: it's all star based, and it's just a WNBA. You know,
[46:36] Speaker 1: was waiting for its first Tiger, and golf's probably had
[46:40] Speaker 1: four in my life, you know, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Palmer, Tiger.
[46:45] Speaker 1: I think Rory's got a little bit of it, Phil Micholson.
[46:48] Speaker 1: So the history of golf, you know, if you modern
[46:50] Speaker 1: history has got like five guys that have done it.
[46:53] Speaker 1: So there's no reason to be defensive about it. It
[46:56] Speaker 1: just it's all these leagues. They all eventually, I mean,
[47:00] Speaker 1: look at boxing, Ollie took it from whatever it was
[47:04] Speaker 1: to the next level. Then there were Sugar, Ray, Leonard
[47:07] Speaker 1: and Hagler. But when Larry Holmes arrived, nobody wanted to
[47:11] Speaker 1: watch Larry Holmes. That took an old George Foreman and
[47:14] Speaker 1: telling a grill that you bake chicken on or cook
[47:17] Speaker 1: chicken on to I mean literally to get the casual
[47:21] Speaker 1: back into boxing. Was George Foreman's second tour. So this
[47:25] Speaker 1: is the way sports works outside of football.
[47:28] Speaker 2: The cyclical thing is so fascinating because that's literally what
[47:30] Speaker 2: the NBA is about to go through. Lebron and Steph
[47:32] Speaker 2: won eight titles in eleven years and now there's not
[47:35] Speaker 2: really a big name yet. Now you could argue that
[47:37] Speaker 2: the parody might prevent the rise of a star, and
[47:39] Speaker 2: that's a separate conversation for another day, but it is
[47:42] Speaker 2: really fascinating. We're in one of those cycles right now
[47:44] Speaker 2: with the NBA. The old guard's going out and there's
[47:46] Speaker 2: a new guard coming up.
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[48:07] Speaker 2: But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you giving us your time tonight.
[48:10] Speaker 2: This has been a super fun playoff runt. I'm sure
[48:12] Speaker 2: we'll be talking in about a week or so. Again, everyone,
[48:15] Speaker 2: thank you guys so much for supporting the show. No
[48:17] Speaker 2: playback tonight, just a heads up. We'll be back with
[48:19] Speaker 2: that tomorrow night, and then I will be live on
[48:20] Speaker 2: YouTube after the final buzzer of Game four of what
[48:22] Speaker 2: should be an incredible Western Conference Finals game tomorrow night.
[48:25] Speaker 2: I will see you guys.
[48:26] Speaker 1: Then the volume

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