# Ryen Russillo on NBA Draft Coverage, ESPN stories, Great Podcasting, College Football | Colin Cowherd

An episode of [The Colin Cowherd Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1551365571), 27 Jun 2025, 1 h 04 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/arttrk.com/p/D5CA5/pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4013d28e-5f67-4885-bff1-ae3300346830/6c800e60-a63a-4505-969c-b3090092ceb2/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e829cf60-fc06-4d61-8691-ae330034683e

Colin is joined by Ryen Russilo, host of the Ryen Russilo podcast at The Ringer! They start with Colin’s take after the NBA draft: that marquee sports broadcasters do better work when they are allowed to specialize in one sport rather than trying to cover them all and diluting the on-air product (4:00). They discuss the decline in entertainment production in Hollywood (16:15) and contrast and compare what makes for successful broadcasting vs podcasting (25:15). They talk about their own podcast consumption, and weigh in on Jake Tapper’s controversial book “Original Sin”, Tapper’s media tour and the public blowback it has received (37:00). Colin explains why the most “cringe” thing in politics is when people denounce comedians as “”unfunny” just because of their political views (41:30). They review the NBA Draft and discuss why the talent entering the draft the past two years has been far more NBA ready after a twenty year drought (54:00).They point to NIL, conference realignment and the transfer portal being a boon for the quality of college sports (1:00:45). Finally, they discuss former college coaches like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer transitioning into broadcasting and why they’re so good on TV (1:07:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: Well, it's nearly two months till the Cowboys play their
[0:06] Speaker 1: first preseason game, but Dallas is about to heat up.
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[0:53] Speaker 1: you can't make it this time, you can follow every
[0:55] Speaker 1: shot live and exclusively on Fox Sports. Okay, Ryan Rossella
[1:04] Speaker 1: is joining me. I'm doing thirty minutes because the guy
[1:06] Speaker 1: works his ass off and I'm not going to grind
[1:08] Speaker 1: him that or he can go on local Des Moines
[1:10] Speaker 1: radio and talk about the twenty eighth pick in the
[1:12] Speaker 1: second round. Okay, So I have something I want to
[1:14] Speaker 1: throw at you because you're a writer, and I was
[1:16] Speaker 1: kind of proud of it.
[1:17] Speaker 2: I never can tell if a lot of people, well,
[1:20] Speaker 2: actually I can tell. Usually when people say, hey, you're
[1:22] Speaker 2: a writer, it's actually an insult because there's nothing of
[1:25] Speaker 2: note yet, at least publicly. But yeah, okay, I think
[1:29] Speaker 2: we're cool enough that I'll let you make the joke.
[1:30] Speaker 2: But go ahead, Okay.
[1:33] Speaker 1: Now, I have a lot of respect for your writing
[1:35] Speaker 1: because I think it's hard. So you know how people
[1:39] Speaker 1: talk about foam too. And I had a teenage daughter
[1:42] Speaker 1: and I lived.
[1:43] Speaker 2: Through it a little bit.
[1:44] Speaker 1: You were jealous of her, and I came up with something.
[1:46] Speaker 1: Oh no, So what's funny is through the years, I've
[1:51] Speaker 1: tried to think of something, you know, kind of an
[1:54] Speaker 1: ancdote to it, and I said, I came up with
[1:56] Speaker 1: I have phobe, which is fear of being in anything.
[2:00] Speaker 1: And over the last several years, on effing TikTok. If
[2:05] Speaker 1: you're not selling me sit ups and mushroom coffee and
[2:11] Speaker 1: vacations in Dubai, you know, bogatah. I'm like, there's this
[2:19] Speaker 1: thing going on. And the reason I bring this up
[2:23] Speaker 1: because I think as a broadcaster sometimes Fox really protects me.
[2:28] Speaker 1: And I'm not joking. They like put a fortress around me.
[2:31] Speaker 1: They don't let it because they understand three hours a
[2:33] Speaker 1: day is a lot of talking. And I've watched Steven A.
[2:38] Speaker 1: Smith some of the criticism about him, and my take
[2:41] Speaker 1: he and McAfee bust their ass. They work really hard.
[2:43] Speaker 1: I mean McAfee has no days off in the football season.
[2:46] Speaker 1: And my takeaway is is that it's impossible to be
[2:55] Speaker 1: like the perfect parent, great in your career, four kids
[2:59] Speaker 1: every recite every little league game. My take is most
[3:03] Speaker 1: broadcasters at some point pick one or two things. You've
[3:07] Speaker 1: picked NBA among yours and NFL is mine. I go
[3:12] Speaker 1: a mile deep on it, and everything else suffers a
[3:15] Speaker 1: little bit. And I don't you and I don't. We
[3:18] Speaker 1: both worked at ESPN, but I always felt the ideology
[3:21] Speaker 1: of ESPN was, if you make good money, we're working you.
[3:25] Speaker 1: We're getting you on a lot of stuff. Fox, interestingly
[3:28] Speaker 1: is the opposite. Their thing is we'll compensate you. We
[3:31] Speaker 1: want you to be great on what you're great at,
[3:32] Speaker 1: but we're not putting you on a bunch of stuff.
[3:35] Speaker 1: And so when I watch the NBA coverage and I
[3:38] Speaker 1: think the NBA is big enough, you should just do
[3:42] Speaker 1: NBA and that is your beat, Like Windhorst is not
[3:47] Speaker 1: doing baseball? Am I a relic to think if you're
[3:51] Speaker 1: a network and doing a sport and you're a marquee personality,
[3:56] Speaker 1: that's it. That's what you do.
[3:58] Speaker 2: No, I don't think you're a row like I do
[4:00] Speaker 2: think that there's a tendency for those of us. Again,
[4:04] Speaker 2: this is a very small window of the population, but
[4:06] Speaker 2: that do this all the time because like when people
[4:08] Speaker 2: ask me like, hey, what do you do, and then
[4:10] Speaker 2: they're immediately like that's amazing, that must be awesome, and
[4:13] Speaker 2: I'm like, it's great. You know, I had some goals.
[4:15] Speaker 2: I've reached some I haven't reached others. But I think
[4:18] Speaker 2: you and I would admit, like your worst stick going
[4:21] Speaker 2: into ESPN to bullshit for three hours. Like even I
[4:24] Speaker 2: is a younger guy that was mad at the world
[4:26] Speaker 2: and felt slighted at every turn, I still could allow
[4:32] Speaker 2: myself to go, hey, this isn't that bad, Like this
[4:34] Speaker 2: isn't that bad of a life. But what I would
[4:36] Speaker 2: say is the difference is that when I go home,
[4:38] Speaker 2: work doesn't stop. And for me in Connecticut too, especially
[4:41] Speaker 2: at that time, it was waking up thinking about what
[4:44] Speaker 2: I was going to say, prepping to say what I
[4:46] Speaker 2: was going to say, say what I was going to
[4:47] Speaker 2: say for three hours four o'clock, run home, gym, food,
[4:51] Speaker 2: and then watch games and think about what I was
[4:53] Speaker 2: going to say for the six hours I was watching
[4:55] Speaker 2: games on top of the twenty for football. And look,
[4:59] Speaker 2: I've probably because of my background, felt like I had
[5:04] Speaker 2: to prove myself all the time. So I almost felt
[5:06] Speaker 2: like you owed the audience, right, You owed the audience
[5:10] Speaker 2: to be into it. So as you say, like, is
[5:11] Speaker 2: it to be a relic to suggest that you should
[5:14] Speaker 2: really only follow one thing, Well, if you're a wind
[5:17] Speaker 2: horse and that's your beat, I don't expect windhorse to
[5:20] Speaker 2: break down the college football rankings on a Tuesday night.
[5:23] Speaker 2: But if you're doing what you and I were doing
[5:25] Speaker 2: in some forms, like you're still doing exactly what you're doing,
[5:28] Speaker 2: I'm doing less. But as much as I'm an NBA guy,
[5:32] Speaker 2: I'm probably living in Florida and not Manhattan Beach. If
[5:35] Speaker 2: I'm not doing any NFL, like, you have to figure
[5:38] Speaker 2: out a way to do NFL. And I love college football.
[5:40] Speaker 2: I like it more than the NFL. So I still
[5:42] Speaker 2: want to watch college football on Saturdays. I've definitely, as
[5:44] Speaker 2: I've gotten older, been like, can I is there any
[5:46] Speaker 2: way I can like dial back some of this. I mean,
[5:48] Speaker 2: baseball is a sport I love, grew up with. It
[5:50] Speaker 2: was my first job. I don't have time for it.
[5:52] Speaker 2: When all this basketball stuff is over next week. I'm
[5:54] Speaker 2: not just going to be like, Okay, it's baseball season
[5:57] Speaker 2: and I'm gonna sit at home. I'm gonna get out
[5:58] Speaker 2: of the house. I'm gona travel, I'm going to do something.
[6:00] Speaker 2: So I don't know if you're saying this because it's
[6:04] Speaker 2: the right approach to prevent ourselves, or if it's a
[6:06] Speaker 2: little if you'll allow me like, is it at all
[6:09] Speaker 2: self serving what you're saying at this point in your life?
[6:13] Speaker 1: No, I think what I'm saying I misstated it. I
[6:15] Speaker 1: think you're from if you're on a Marquee television network, broadcast.
[6:22] Speaker 1: I'm a generalist, so nobody considers me an expert, right,
[6:26] Speaker 1: Like I'm not on the NBA Draft or the NFL draft,
[6:30] Speaker 1: or the postseason baseball or the Indy five hundred crew
[6:33] Speaker 1: or the World Cup. I'm a generalist. I'm not on
[6:36] Speaker 1: a network Tiffany Marquee event. But as I watch the
[6:40] Speaker 1: criticism for broadcasters that make mistakes on these events, my
[6:44] Speaker 1: take is, once you pay eleven billion dollars for events
[6:48] Speaker 1: as a network, like I don't want to see Joe
[6:51] Speaker 1: Bucken Aikman, that's what they do. They go a mile deep.
[6:56] Speaker 1: They should have an off season, and I don't want
[6:58] Speaker 1: to dilute them. Like that's what I think of them,
[7:01] Speaker 1: as they're the NFL guys.
[7:03] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and look, they don't want to be diluted.
[7:05] Speaker 2: I always joked once I'd been in the business enough
[7:08] Speaker 2: that I was like, I want to come back as
[7:09] Speaker 2: a former college football quarterback, and I want to see
[7:12] Speaker 2: at the end of August and then maybe I pop
[7:14] Speaker 2: up on the draft and then I'll see you like
[7:16] Speaker 2: that's the gig, that's the ultimate gig. But there is
[7:19] Speaker 2: something that happens to all of us. I remember I
[7:21] Speaker 2: was trying to fight my way through Boston. I go,
[7:23] Speaker 2: why does this guy get a radio show? And then
[7:24] Speaker 2: he's on this TV show every single night, and then
[7:26] Speaker 2: he's also doing pre and posting this, like, why can't
[7:29] Speaker 2: you just have one job? And for whatever it is
[7:31] Speaker 2: our industry, I don't even know this has changed a lot.
[7:34] Speaker 2: It's like we still need all the stuff. And I
[7:36] Speaker 2: know ESPN's taking a ton of shit because of their
[7:39] Speaker 2: draft coverage. I used to be on the radio coverage.
[7:42] Speaker 2: You know, I was never going to be on TV there.
[7:44] Speaker 2: So the fact that I was never at that desk,
[7:45] Speaker 2: I couldn't even it wasn't like sure, I would have
[7:47] Speaker 2: loved to be able to do it. I was never
[7:48] Speaker 2: going to be able to do it. I was never
[7:50] Speaker 2: going to be invited to that. So my criticisms are
[7:52] Speaker 2: not based on like any jealousy. I usually like to
[7:54] Speaker 2: think I'm pretty aware about stuff, but you know, whether
[7:57] Speaker 2: it's you know, I don't really feel like talking about
[7:59] Speaker 2: steven A all that much, and you know, held my
[8:01] Speaker 2: contracts up here too, So like what am I doing
[8:03] Speaker 2: ripping everybody everywhere? Right? That wouldn't make a ton of sense.
[8:08] Speaker 2: I think I would ask anyone this. It's like the
[8:11] Speaker 2: Draft itself is a huge commitment to be prepared for that,
[8:15] Speaker 2: and and so I used to drive myself crazy just
[8:19] Speaker 2: having to do the radio thing, and then I would
[8:20] Speaker 2: host the combine for television. I did that for like
[8:23] Speaker 2: five years. And I love the Draft. It's my favorite
[8:25] Speaker 2: sporting event in the entire year. But what I'd ask
[8:29] Speaker 2: certain people is do you just want to be on
[8:32] Speaker 2: the marquee event without any concern for how prepared you are,
[8:38] Speaker 2: for how much goes into this? And that's where I
[8:41] Speaker 2: think it's either somebody who's working too much. You could say, hey,
[8:45] Speaker 2: this person spread really thin, But you know, I just
[8:49] Speaker 2: feel like it happens a lot in our industry. It's
[8:51] Speaker 2: like do you do you want the title or do
[8:54] Speaker 2: you want the job? And I think a lot of
[8:57] Speaker 2: guys love the title. And if if people are to
[9:00] Speaker 2: let you do whatever you want to do, then what
[9:01] Speaker 2: are you supposed to say no? But right I look
[9:06] Speaker 2: at some of the thoughts around, like, oh, you know,
[9:07] Speaker 2: this person's a huge star, so we'd like to get
[9:09] Speaker 2: him involved here, like to get him involved there. It's
[9:11] Speaker 2: like my first thought is if I were offered something,
[9:14] Speaker 2: it's like, am I even ready to be on this broadcast,
[9:17] Speaker 2: and if I wasn't, I'd be ashamed to be there.
[9:21] Speaker 1: I was on the draft NFL Draft for two years
[9:25] Speaker 1: on radio and I and again, I'm pretty good talker.
[9:30] Speaker 1: I do I feel. I just didn't feel. I just
[9:34] Speaker 1: I kind of was like, oh no, no, no, this
[9:36] Speaker 1: I shouldn't be stealing somebody's gig. I'm not going a
[9:40] Speaker 1: mile deep. I mean, I read everything I made calls,
[9:44] Speaker 1: but I'm thinking, I'm not this is not me, this
[9:48] Speaker 1: is not what I am. I'm not good enough on
[9:52] Speaker 1: this to do this. And I'm not knocking anybody who
[9:55] Speaker 1: like there are certain people that they are so good
[9:57] Speaker 1: on stuff they should do it for the rest of
[9:59] Speaker 1: their life. But it's interesting as I've watched some of
[10:02] Speaker 1: the criticism of people, and a lot of it's been
[10:04] Speaker 1: stephen A And my takeaway is, man, it's I think
[10:09] Speaker 1: in these marquee events, I think networks have to step
[10:12] Speaker 1: in and just say you got to have specialists. It's
[10:14] Speaker 1: almost like in baseball there's literally the bullpen. There are
[10:19] Speaker 1: setup men, closers and middle relievers. And I think if
[10:22] Speaker 1: I ran it like at the volume, like I have
[10:24] Speaker 1: Daniel Cormier for one thing, I don't bleed my guys
[10:28] Speaker 1: over at all. I want you to be a middle
[10:31] Speaker 1: coffers golf and lives for it. But it's like at
[10:34] Speaker 1: the volume and I have much less of a budget.
[10:36] Speaker 1: My whole thing is I'll be a generalist, Nick writes,
[10:39] Speaker 1: A generalist, everybody else is a specialist. And I like
[10:43] Speaker 1: it when I go to a guy, I know exactly
[10:45] Speaker 1: what he's going to talk about.
[10:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's and this is not a disagreement. This
[10:51] Speaker 2: is about the programming part of this and the realization
[10:54] Speaker 2: that I had, you know, the epiphany years ago that
[10:56] Speaker 2: I realized, like, ultimately, I think there are a certain
[10:59] Speaker 2: p pull that are stars and not stars because the audience,
[11:03] Speaker 2: as much as they complain about it. It's a lot
[11:06] Speaker 2: like a movie. Like if you suggest a movie to
[11:07] Speaker 2: somebody else, the first question they'll probably ask is who's
[11:10] Speaker 2: in the movie. And if you're like, oh, it's a
[11:12] Speaker 2: bunch of underground guys, you know, if you're second city,
[11:17] Speaker 2: you won't you won't know a single guy. The other
[11:20] Speaker 2: person is more likely to be like, well, I'm not
[11:22] Speaker 2: I'm probably not going to watch that unless there's some
[11:26] Speaker 2: art house goon. Right. So when I think about how
[11:30] Speaker 2: some of this stuff is staffed. When you are a
[11:33] Speaker 2: star in our business, wherever you are, ESPN, Fox, it,
[11:38] Speaker 2: the idea is like, let's let's get those people on, Like, look,
[11:41] Speaker 2: Mike and Mike along with you in all those years
[11:44] Speaker 2: monster radio shows, monster successes. I think I remember, you know,
[11:48] Speaker 2: Mike and Mike finding new ways to get the Mike
[11:51] Speaker 2: and Mike part of it on some more of the
[11:53] Speaker 2: NFL coverage. They had their own NFL show. So you
[11:56] Speaker 2: can be saying, hey, this is spreading our guys a
[11:58] Speaker 2: little thin, because you know, it's a brutal life in
[12:01] Speaker 2: general to work a morning show. But at the same time,
[12:05] Speaker 2: it's like, hey, we're launching this new show. Well who's
[12:07] Speaker 2: on it. Oh, these really good young guys, these awesome researchers.
[12:12] Speaker 2: You have never heard of one of them. Well, you're
[12:15] Speaker 2: not introducing that upfront. Advertisers aren't excited. Whereas you go, hey,
[12:20] Speaker 2: we got Mike and Mike for thirty minutes, the Mike
[12:22] Speaker 2: and Mike Football show that we're playing in the afternoons
[12:24] Speaker 2: once a week. Turn Key advertisers already excited about that. Like,
[12:27] Speaker 2: wasn't there even a time where it was thought that
[12:29] Speaker 2: you could be on college game Day and you probably
[12:31] Speaker 2: would have done it, and it actually would have made
[12:33] Speaker 2: sense because it probably would have brought a different level
[12:36] Speaker 2: of juice to the show. That not to say that
[12:38] Speaker 2: that show was ever really in trouble, because it's a
[12:39] Speaker 2: great show. It's been a great franchise for a really
[12:41] Speaker 2: long time. Yeah, you would have been prepped up on
[12:44] Speaker 2: it because i know how much you love college ball,
[12:46] Speaker 2: but that's probably spreading to you a little thing, especially
[12:50] Speaker 2: with the travel. But there's a point in time where
[12:52] Speaker 2: I'm sure you would have said yes, and it would
[12:54] Speaker 2: have brought something different to that show.
[12:57] Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I listen, I coffee buss his ass. He's
[13:01] Speaker 1: got my respect, and so does steven A. I'm this
[13:03] Speaker 1: is not criticism of them. I mean McAfee could fall
[13:06] Speaker 1: to bed and be interesting with wrestling. The guy's like
[13:08] Speaker 1: an encyclopedia and he's just unbelievable. Years ago and Nick
[13:12] Speaker 1: Cohn asked me about him, and I'm like, how come
[13:15] Speaker 1: he's not on the payroll. He's like the best wrestling
[13:19] Speaker 1: guy out there. They didn't know if Roman Reigns was
[13:21] Speaker 1: the guy, I'm like, I'd make McAfee your heavyweight champ.
[13:24] Speaker 1: You know, put him on something and add forty pounds.
[13:26] Speaker 1: That's who I'd watch. No, it's just interesting. So the internight,
[13:32] Speaker 1: I will nick. He's busy. So the internight I had dinner.
[13:38] Speaker 1: It was one of these I don't do this, this
[13:40] Speaker 1: is not my scene. But it was the San Vicente
[13:45] Speaker 1: bungalow is the one in Santa Monica, so it's overlooking
[13:47] Speaker 1: Santa Monica. Very nice, and so I had it with
[13:51] Speaker 1: an executive with a streaming service and it was just
[13:53] Speaker 1: kind of a you know, just a nice guy that
[13:56] Speaker 1: buddy wanted me to meet. We had a great, great
[13:58] Speaker 1: dinner and we were talking and this guy said, he goes,
[14:02] Speaker 1: people have no idea like Sunset Boulevard is dead, like
[14:06] Speaker 1: it's been dead for two years. And I don't think.
[14:09] Speaker 1: And this person was talking about when he does zooms
[14:12] Speaker 1: at this big company he's at. He goes, I get budgets.
[14:15] Speaker 1: Should we do it? Should we do it in Vancouver, Georgia, Louisiana,
[14:19] Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Singapore. He's like, Los Angeles is thirty to
[14:24] Speaker 1: forty percent more expensive than flying everybody to Melbourne to
[14:29] Speaker 1: do the show or Dublin. And I don't think people
[14:31] Speaker 1: know this outside of Los Angeles, but you know, everybody's
[14:37] Speaker 1: heard a sunset strip. And when I just moved to Chicago,
[14:40] Speaker 1: and what was interesting is about two weeks, three weeks
[14:44] Speaker 1: before I left, I met somebody on Sunset at night Ryan,
[14:49] Speaker 1: there was nobody there on a Thursday night, Like there
[14:51] Speaker 1: was no juice stuff boarded up. And I wonder your thoughts,
[14:56] Speaker 1: because you're in this business, you're writing and meeting with people,
[15:00] Speaker 1: does anything get made anymore? How much stuff is being made?
[15:04] Speaker 2: I'm not the right guy to ask, because I'm I
[15:07] Speaker 2: can answer it to some degree because of where I'm
[15:09] Speaker 2: at now. I do have some really good things that
[15:12] Speaker 2: are going on. But every time you get a yes,
[15:15] Speaker 2: all you're waiting for is the more significant yes. So
[15:20] Speaker 2: I've had a few yesses where it's like this is
[15:22] Speaker 2: a big deal until you have to get the next yes.
[15:25] Speaker 2: And so you know, I have friends that are in
[15:29] Speaker 2: the industry that are like, it's really hard to get
[15:30] Speaker 2: stuff made. I also think that we're comparing what's happening now,
[15:34] Speaker 2: which is basically a pullback from where it felt like
[15:36] Speaker 2: everything was getting made because you had so many I mean,
[15:40] Speaker 2: think about it, traditional television, traditional cable to now streaming
[15:43] Speaker 2: networks doing whatever they can to get into the content
[15:45] Speaker 2: game and try to outflank each other. So whether it
[15:48] Speaker 2: was executives at different studios getting promoted and just be like,
[15:53] Speaker 2: we're going to bring you in, We're going to do this,
[15:54] Speaker 2: and then just people getting shows green lit, or at
[15:56] Speaker 2: least they were getting the pilots. But I don't know
[15:59] Speaker 2: how many people were selling things that weren't written ahead
[16:01] Speaker 2: of time. But it is a very challenging time because
[16:05] Speaker 2: of something that again I'm not really allowed to get
[16:07] Speaker 2: all that into it, but you know, at one point,
[16:11] Speaker 2: there's a thing that I was working on and I
[16:13] Speaker 2: was really flattered by how many people wanted to work
[16:16] Speaker 2: on this one project. And I asked one of my friends.
[16:19] Speaker 2: I was like, man, you know, this is really I'm
[16:23] Speaker 2: kind of in shock. And he was like, yeah, it's
[16:25] Speaker 2: also like a good job, so cool, cool job on
[16:30] Speaker 2: your laptop. It's also like a very good job, and
[16:33] Speaker 2: people want.
[16:37] Speaker 1: Yes.
[16:37] Speaker 2: You know, again, this is sort of a weird thing
[16:39] Speaker 2: for me because it makes it sound like I'm trying
[16:40] Speaker 2: to make something sound a lot cooler than it is,
[16:43] Speaker 2: and it's not my day to day you know, I'm
[16:45] Speaker 2: not in the Hollywood game. Day to day. But it's
[16:47] Speaker 2: definitely been a massive learning experience the seven years of
[16:50] Speaker 2: like how I thought it, but I knew, I knew
[16:52] Speaker 2: I was already naive, which helped me in a way,
[16:54] Speaker 2: so I was never really truly disappointed when things don't
[16:57] Speaker 2: work out. But I don't I think everybody would agree
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[17:02] Speaker 2: things made now, but what are we comparing it to.
[17:05] Speaker 2: It was like a gold rush of content there for
[17:07] Speaker 2: a lot of creators out there.
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[18:29] Speaker 1: I want to talk because your primary thing now is podcasting.
[18:32] Speaker 1: And I thought about this the other day. I was
[18:35] Speaker 1: watching a Joe Rogan clip and then it was followed
[18:38] Speaker 1: by a Dax's Shepherd clip. And you know, if you
[18:42] Speaker 1: would have guessed fifteen years ago, you just said, what
[18:45] Speaker 1: are the biggest Hollywood podcasts or the biggest podcast. If
[18:49] Speaker 1: I'd have said Dak Sheppard and Joe Rogan, you'd have
[18:53] Speaker 1: thought like, well, did Denzel do one? Or did you
[18:56] Speaker 1: know what I mean, like did bow Bridges do one?
[18:59] Speaker 1: But I was thinking of up podcasting and I was
[19:03] Speaker 1: thought about it. Tell me if this is a weird take.
[19:05] Speaker 1: I thought the other day, I was like, what makes
[19:07] Speaker 1: a great podcast? Broadcasting which I grew up in, and
[19:12] Speaker 1: I'm still a broadcaster who has a podcast, but I'm
[19:14] Speaker 1: not a podcaster. Broadcasting was always about the skill of broadcasting.
[19:20] Speaker 1: You didn't necessarily want to show vulnerability. You were basically polished,
[19:25] Speaker 1: and you were current, and even if you were curious,
[19:29] Speaker 1: you didn't get to talk about what you wanted to
[19:30] Speaker 1: talk about. And I'm watching Rogan and Dak Shepherd, and
[19:34] Speaker 1: I thought, if there's a thread on what makes podcasting
[19:37] Speaker 1: really good? Joe Rogan and Dak Shepherd have had really
[19:43] Speaker 1: difficult journeys. They talk about all their shit, and they're
[19:48] Speaker 1: two of the most curious guys, genuinely curious guys. I mean,
[19:52] Speaker 1: Rogan cares about shit that I wouldn't spend a minute on,
[19:56] Speaker 1: and he's an expert on it. And I was thinking
[19:58] Speaker 1: about you know, people me all the time, I want
[20:00] Speaker 1: to do a podcast. And my takeaway is, are you
[20:03] Speaker 1: insanely curious? You don't have to be skilled at broadcasting.
[20:08] Speaker 1: You can burn twice an hour, twice a minute. But
[20:12] Speaker 1: your take on the difference between broadcasting and podcasting, and
[20:16] Speaker 1: I think it's tell everybody your warts and be curious
[20:22] Speaker 1: as hell, and that essentially if you're those two, you win.
[20:28] Speaker 2: Yeah. I think a lot of what you said makes
[20:30] Speaker 2: a lot of sense. And I think you and I
[20:34] Speaker 2: are a little similar in the way we got into broadcasting,
[20:41] Speaker 2: where you know, look, I had the Syracuse knew how
[20:43] Speaker 2: school application filled out. I don't know if I was
[20:46] Speaker 2: going to get in. I might have gotten into like
[20:48] Speaker 2: some some thing that allows you to go there, and
[20:51] Speaker 2: then maybe you get to the school. And that was
[20:53] Speaker 2: with a degree already from Vermont. And then I after
[20:58] Speaker 2: years of kind of toiling around and then wondering if
[21:00] Speaker 2: I really want to take on more student debt. Uh,
[21:03] Speaker 2: you know, I end up get a job in minor
[21:04] Speaker 2: league baseball, which you know I've talked about. But that
[21:07] Speaker 2: was like when I that was like when I was
[21:08] Speaker 2: turning to twenty six, twenty seven and so you know,
[21:12] Speaker 2: there's one thing about being a broadcaster that understands, Hey,
[21:16] Speaker 2: this is how I want to start the beginning of
[21:18] Speaker 2: my monologue, and then this is what I want to
[21:21] Speaker 2: make sure I do. And you know, sometimes even at ESPN,
[21:23] Speaker 2: I was like, do you give a shit about anything
[21:25] Speaker 2: I say? In between the rejoins and the teases and
[21:28] Speaker 2: the resets, Like I swear, most of the feedback always
[21:31] Speaker 2: felt And then I'd like, if I were maybe getting
[21:34] Speaker 2: a little pissy, I'd go, Cowherd sucks at all the
[21:36] Speaker 2: formatics and you guys all worship him, and it'd be like, well,
[21:38] Speaker 2: that's Colin, you know, that's kind. But ultimately, like I was,
[21:43] Speaker 2: I was sitting there thinking, like, what Colin is saying
[21:45] Speaker 2: in those opens is so much more important than anything else.
[21:51] Speaker 2: I don't care if it's rejoined suck. I don't care
[21:53] Speaker 2: if he forgets the reset. I don't care if his
[21:55] Speaker 2: teases are terrible. What's important is the meat, Like you know,
[22:00] Speaker 2: what's the meat? Because the meat is what's going to
[22:02] Speaker 2: bring me back. And it's funny too, because I started
[22:04] Speaker 2: to realize, like when I would drive in to work
[22:06] Speaker 2: and I would catch you, or if I was already there,
[22:07] Speaker 2: and you know you were on in the hallway or
[22:09] Speaker 2: on in the office. I would be more annoyed when
[22:12] Speaker 2: you had a guest than when you had an open segment.
[22:15] Speaker 2: Even if I disagreed with everything that you were saying,
[22:18] Speaker 2: I at least was interested in the way that you
[22:20] Speaker 2: were going to perceive things right. And this is what
[22:25] Speaker 2: I think is like a real difference between who is
[22:27] Speaker 2: somebody that people want to listen to versus like who
[22:29] Speaker 2: is a good broadcaster, Because we can get into a
[22:31] Speaker 2: whole podcasting thing too, where it's like, look, you can
[22:34] Speaker 2: be a podcaster this afternoon after going to Best Buy
[22:37] Speaker 2: if you really want to be one. You know, when
[22:39] Speaker 2: I first started trying to read books about screenwriting, Robert
[22:43] Speaker 2: McKee and Story, which is kind of like a standard book,
[22:45] Speaker 2: he would say like who would ever pick up a
[22:46] Speaker 2: guitar and be frustrated that they couldn't play a song
[22:49] Speaker 2: that afternoon? But yet everybody would open up final draft
[22:53] Speaker 2: and think like, hey, I'm a screenwriter, and it's like, well,
[22:55] Speaker 2: because one is the most intimidating thing and the other
[22:59] Speaker 2: thing is just sort of type and you have to
[23:00] Speaker 2: be bad at it before you can be good at it,
[23:03] Speaker 2: but you don't realize how bad you are as a writer.
[23:05] Speaker 2: You realize immediately how bad you are as a guitar player.
[23:08] Speaker 2: And I think there's some similarities in like podcasting, where
[23:11] Speaker 2: you go, well, what's so hard about that? Like I'm
[23:12] Speaker 2: just going to grab a mic and I hit record
[23:15] Speaker 2: and look at me. I'm a broadcaster, but I think
[23:18] Speaker 2: the radio instincts helped a lot of us become better podcasters.
[23:21] Speaker 2: But the real answer to what you were talking about,
[23:24] Speaker 2: which I've sort of delayed in getting there, is that
[23:27] Speaker 2: you have to have life experiences to be interesting. And
[23:31] Speaker 2: if you are like, hey, i'm high school football, I
[23:35] Speaker 2: am doing all the Syracuse stuff, I'm doing all the
[23:37] Speaker 2: Miszoo stuff, Northwestern stuff, and now I have a job
[23:40] Speaker 2: like right away doing updates at twenty two years old
[23:44] Speaker 2: in Chicago. It gets great that you've already mapped it
[23:47] Speaker 2: out and you're already on the air at that in
[23:49] Speaker 2: the traditional sense of things, you know, where you had
[23:51] Speaker 2: to kind of get somebody to say yes to you,
[23:53] Speaker 2: where now no one has to say anything to you
[23:55] Speaker 2: and you could just be a podcaster. But what made
[23:58] Speaker 2: you interesting? And I think what makes a row interesting
[24:00] Speaker 2: or Deck's interesting is that if you have to fill
[24:03] Speaker 2: up all this space, you better have gone through some
[24:05] Speaker 2: different experiences in life to then form perspective on all
[24:10] Speaker 2: of these other topics that go far beyond, like the
[24:14] Speaker 2: technical ability that you might learn in a more traditional
[24:17] Speaker 2: way that I don't think you and I ever learned.
[24:21] Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's just stuff I think about all the time.
[24:24] Speaker 1: I've thought about it a lot. With the volume is
[24:26] Speaker 1: when I'm listening to people, what turns me on, what
[24:28] Speaker 1: turns me off? And a lot of times it's people
[24:31] Speaker 1: with a lot of crap and they talk about it
[24:33] Speaker 1: and it forms their opinions and life kind of perspective,
[24:36] Speaker 1: and I think it's speaking.
[24:37] Speaker 2: To Look, let me stay on this, Like, I remember
[24:39] Speaker 2: you got really personal ones because of something you were
[24:43] Speaker 2: going through, So I don't right it was a divorce, right, Yeah,
[24:49] Speaker 2: so you started talking about your divorce. I think you
[24:52] Speaker 2: got a little shit for doing it. You wanted to
[24:55] Speaker 2: share it with your audience because especially in radio, which
[24:59] Speaker 2: again the fact that you've continued to do this three
[25:01] Speaker 2: hours a day for this many years as somebody that
[25:04] Speaker 2: had to do it for ten years, I don't know
[25:06] Speaker 2: if I don't know if I could do it. I
[25:07] Speaker 2: don't know if I could. Like when I was in it,
[25:09] Speaker 2: I didn't think about it. Now that I've been out
[25:11] Speaker 2: of it for seven years, I don't know that I
[25:12] Speaker 2: could go back to doing it. But I don't know
[25:16] Speaker 2: that you can become great at this, whether it's the
[25:20] Speaker 2: talk show and obviously we're talking audio more here. Think
[25:23] Speaker 2: about how many people are investing their time into you.
[25:26] Speaker 2: And I've always felt like one of the biggest lessons
[25:28] Speaker 2: was that they want to know more about you. So
[25:31] Speaker 2: even though it may seem I'm professional, it may even
[25:33] Speaker 2: see weird. Hey stick to sports. If you can find
[25:36] Speaker 2: a way to make the human connection, I think you
[25:38] Speaker 2: get paid back with such incredible loyalty because you open
[25:43] Speaker 2: up a little bit more. You show that you're vulnerable.
[25:45] Speaker 2: Like all of us want to be right, all of
[25:46] Speaker 2: us want to sound like we're the coolest guy in
[25:47] Speaker 2: the room all the time, but like you can't. You
[25:50] Speaker 2: can't really do that, Like you have to. You have
[25:52] Speaker 2: to be it's not even self deprecating. You have to
[25:54] Speaker 2: be willing to share moments of your failure. And I
[25:57] Speaker 2: think you did that in a way where in the
[26:01] Speaker 2: in the moment, a lot of people didn't understand it.
[26:03] Speaker 2: But I really think that's what the audio relationship is about,
[26:06] Speaker 2: because you have to pay back all of those people
[26:10] Speaker 2: that are investing so much time with you as part
[26:11] Speaker 2: of their daily routine.
[26:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people, some people. I know me, I
[26:18] Speaker 1: tune into a show every single morning, like I have.
[26:21] Speaker 1: I have a rhythm to my day, like and if
[26:24] Speaker 1: I if the podcast isn't there every Tuesday and Thursday
[26:27] Speaker 1: for people, I'm like, I'm kind of bitter. I'm like,
[26:30] Speaker 1: you're I'm on the train now. I want to be entertained.
[26:33] Speaker 1: So it's like, you do give yourself to people. By
[26:36] Speaker 1: the way, I do take the train and I needn't
[26:38] Speaker 1: know trains do this. I know it's crazy, right, It's
[26:40] Speaker 1: just freaking crazy. So I was in Manhattan Beach the
[26:43] Speaker 1: last couple of days. I was in out. I had
[26:44] Speaker 1: to go see dentist and all that crap. So I
[26:46] Speaker 1: was just in and out. But you know, Nick Wright
[26:50] Speaker 1: was joking, He's like, dude, you will be off that
[26:53] Speaker 1: train in two days when you get a car service.
[26:55] Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be, but the burbs
[26:58] Speaker 1: to the city in Chicago are worse than LA traffic.
[27:01] Speaker 1: It's a twenty nine minute train ride and they have
[27:04] Speaker 1: a quiet car. Bro I have never listened to more
[27:07] Speaker 1: podcasts yours included. I get on that thing in the
[27:11] Speaker 1: morning at seven thirty eighth five ogl V Transportation Center.
[27:15] Speaker 1: My driver picks me up. I go to the Big
[27:16] Speaker 1: ten network. Do my show? I it is. It forces
[27:21] Speaker 1: me to podcast it. Otherwise I just, you know, I'll
[27:25] Speaker 1: sit around and just spitball and waste time and clean
[27:29] Speaker 1: the house. Forces me to listen to podcasts I listen
[27:31] Speaker 1: to every five days a week. I'm on one for
[27:33] Speaker 1: thirty minutes every day. So in a strange way, it
[27:36] Speaker 1: forces me to be disciplined listening to other people's work,
[27:40] Speaker 1: and I love it.
[27:40] Speaker 2: Do you find yourself like trying out things that you
[27:44] Speaker 2: would never listen to? Because I mean, there's so much
[27:47] Speaker 2: stuff out there. Do you do you look at it?
[27:49] Speaker 2: I wonder how much of it is as a consumer
[27:51] Speaker 2: versus like an evaluator or somebody who's done the job
[27:54] Speaker 2: for this long.
[27:56] Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a good question. I trust my staff
[27:59] Speaker 1: at the volume. They come to me with stuff, but
[28:01] Speaker 1: I trust them to find stuff. The first year I
[28:03] Speaker 1: was helping the find stuff, but now I feel like
[28:06] Speaker 1: I've got my farm system. I mean, I've got my
[28:08] Speaker 1: scouts all lined up and that's what they do, and
[28:10] Speaker 1: they'll bring stuff to me. So I'm generally looking for people.
[28:14] Speaker 1: You know. It's like, oh, somebody told me about Sam Harris, well,
[28:17] Speaker 1: let's give that a run. And somebody told me about this, Okay,
[28:19] Speaker 1: let's give that a run. I'm experimental, like I'll listen
[28:23] Speaker 1: to I'll listen. You know, for about a week and
[28:25] Speaker 1: a half, two weeks, I was listening to Jake Tapper interviews.
[28:28] Speaker 1: I wanted. I didn't buy his book, but I wanted
[28:30] Speaker 1: to hear him try to kind of wiggle his way out.
[28:33] Speaker 2: Of isn't that a fascinating I'm halfway through the book.
[28:36] Speaker 2: Oh and I uh, it was sent to me.
[28:41] Speaker 1: Where do you land on that? How do you feel
[28:43] Speaker 1: about that?
[28:44] Speaker 2: I have an analogy, but it's a little too harsh.
[28:47] Speaker 2: It's a good line, but it's too harsh. It has
[28:50] Speaker 2: nothing to do with my political leanings one way or
[28:53] Speaker 2: the other. I think you and I are actually pretty
[28:54] Speaker 2: aligned with the way we see the world. You know,
[28:58] Speaker 2: I could sit there and get mad about it of stuff.
[29:00] Speaker 2: I just don't know why you'd want to do that
[29:02] Speaker 2: all day long and just share it. But some people
[29:05] Speaker 2: are super into doing that and just all day long,
[29:07] Speaker 2: let him, you know, fire him off. This is wrong,
[29:09] Speaker 2: this is right, this is wrong. I think Tapper, like
[29:15] Speaker 2: a lot of people in the media, to pretend that
[29:18] Speaker 2: the rest of us were the assholes that were like,
[29:20] Speaker 2: what's going on here? And then to be the guy
[29:23] Speaker 2: that writes the book. Maybe it's as simple as the
[29:25] Speaker 2: publisher's going, this is the best, Like, let's get him
[29:29] Speaker 2: to write the book, have everybody be pissed about it,
[29:33] Speaker 2: and Alex also wrote the book with him. I just
[29:35] Speaker 2: wonder if that was a tactical thing where it felt
[29:40] Speaker 2: pretty gross to have Tapper be the guy that's going
[29:44] Speaker 2: to write the book, that's going to set the record straight.
[29:46] Speaker 2: And again, I don't know how much did Alex do
[29:49] Speaker 2: more of the work, that's the co author of the
[29:51] Speaker 2: whole thing. I just wondered if it was like a
[29:52] Speaker 2: publisher's dream despite the questions.
[29:57] Speaker 1: So Alex is like the guy who just won that primary,
[30:03] Speaker 1: you know, the socialist democrat in New York. I always
[30:05] Speaker 1: thought his strength that guy because the last two weeks
[30:07] Speaker 1: I followed that religiously. I was fascinated by it. A
[30:10] Speaker 1: socialist stallists.
[30:11] Speaker 2: By the way, I just want to make sure I
[30:12] Speaker 2: said his last name. I felt glad that I didn't
[30:14] Speaker 2: have it.
[30:15] Speaker 1: Formerly of the Atlantic. Now he's got a sub stack.
[30:18] Speaker 1: So I've been following in for years. Much like that
[30:21] Speaker 1: mayor mayoral candidate. Alex has a strength, which is he's
[30:26] Speaker 1: not snarky in disagreement. He'll listen, the discourse is redeemable.
[30:31] Speaker 1: He's not Tapper's different. Tapper sat on the throne on
[30:35] Speaker 1: CNN and could be an a hole and could be
[30:38] Speaker 1: dismissive and snarky. So I'm much less willing to just
[30:41] Speaker 1: go whoa. He missed on that one. It's like how
[30:45] Speaker 1: you presented it from your chair, like Alex Thompson acknowledges
[30:51] Speaker 1: like it's almost a journey with him. Hey man, I'm
[30:55] Speaker 1: fascinated by this whoa. I think I'm right, but he's
[30:59] Speaker 1: not dismissive, and that's okay. I find that too many
[31:03] Speaker 1: people like I always say I would like to be right,
[31:06] Speaker 1: but I'd rather get it right, So like I never
[31:09] Speaker 1: get too rigid on the right thing. I think my
[31:12] Speaker 1: thing what Tapper was, bro, you came off as really condescending.
[31:17] Speaker 1: I'm not into it. Bill Maher has strong beliefs, but
[31:20] Speaker 1: will laugh at himself if he's wrong, Like we just
[31:23] Speaker 1: be like totally own it. And I'm like, that's exactly
[31:26] Speaker 1: how to present it. Now. Bill's obviously a comedian, so
[31:28] Speaker 1: he's better at that. But when the media is in
[31:31] Speaker 1: the media mostly leans left, CNN certainly does. When the
[31:35] Speaker 1: media presents itself as your argument has no merit, it's like, guys,
[31:42] Speaker 1: we all have TikTok. We're all seeing the Biden videos
[31:45] Speaker 1: where he's just stiff standing stiffly. It's like, yeah, we've
[31:49] Speaker 1: all had a gramdma like that or a grandpa like that.
[31:51] Speaker 1: We know what's happening. So that's why, that's why I'm
[31:55] Speaker 1: willing to give Alex the benefit of the doubt and
[31:58] Speaker 1: not Jake Tapper.
[32:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say we're in agreement on that one.
[32:04] Speaker 2: You know, I remember when Bobby Knight, yeah, went through
[32:06] Speaker 2: all of his different stuff and it was the Neil
[32:08] Speaker 2: Read incident where you know, he had choked a player,
[32:11] Speaker 2: allegedly choke the player, and then the video came out, right,
[32:14] Speaker 2: and so it was like, Okay, well, now the video's out.
[32:16] Speaker 2: And then Bobby Knight had a book that came out
[32:20] Speaker 2: and I remember I didn't want to buy it because
[32:22] Speaker 2: I don't want to read, you know, two hundred plus
[32:25] Speaker 2: pages of his self absorbed vibe, even if I can
[32:28] Speaker 2: respect what he was capable of doing there for a
[32:30] Speaker 2: really long time as a basketball mind. But I remember
[32:34] Speaker 2: jumping in the game. And I'm paraphrasing this because it
[32:36] Speaker 2: was a really long time ago, but I remember where
[32:37] Speaker 2: I was. I think I was like in ken Moore Square.
[32:39] Speaker 2: There's Barnes and Noble there, and I was like, let
[32:40] Speaker 2: me just see if I can find like the Neil
[32:42] Speaker 2: read part of this book and the way he tried
[32:48] Speaker 2: to rationalize it, and he was like, you know, I
[32:49] Speaker 2: also thought it was really interesting, like how grainy the
[32:52] Speaker 2: video was, and I just was so disgusted. I was
[32:55] Speaker 2: so disgusted reading that, being like you're trying to figure
[32:58] Speaker 2: out I mean, this is almost like the defense attorney
[33:01] Speaker 2: trying to conjure up any reasonable doubt. But you're like, hey,
[33:05] Speaker 2: look like this is a kid that went to your
[33:07] Speaker 2: school and you lost your shit, and you have a
[33:10] Speaker 2: track record of being unhinged, and now that you're going
[33:12] Speaker 2: to tell me, you're going to tell me that I'm
[33:16] Speaker 2: an asshole for like questioning what happened here. And that's
[33:21] Speaker 2: why I'm not super political at all. It has nothing
[33:25] Speaker 2: to do with Biden. Or if it were the other
[33:27] Speaker 2: way around, I'd feel the exact same way if you
[33:30] Speaker 2: felt like you had very curated opinions on this national story.
[33:36] Speaker 2: It's a global story. Anyone that had any kind of
[33:40] Speaker 2: common sense was like, what's going on here? And then
[33:42] Speaker 2: to be just reprimanded yeah, by so many people, and
[33:45] Speaker 2: then to have one of the guys that reprimanded you
[33:47] Speaker 2: now making millions off of this book, I wouldn't want
[33:51] Speaker 2: to write it. I'd feel bad.
[33:54] Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, that's how I felt. No, I it's and
[33:59] Speaker 1: by the way, I can, I can respect somebody's political
[34:01] Speaker 1: acumen and their work ethic, but that's that's how I
[34:05] Speaker 1: always fall. The other thing.
[34:08] Speaker 2: About Maverick's pick for the draft recap today.
[34:17] Speaker 1: Dude, listen, you've done that that.
[34:21] Speaker 2: Everybody knows you so No.
[34:25] Speaker 1: So it's one of the things. This is the one
[34:28] Speaker 1: thing about political talk that where it gets it's really cringey.
[34:34] Speaker 1: When like a comedian, a funny comedian, Dave Chappelle's really talented,
[34:39] Speaker 1: it could be uh, John Mulaney's really talented. It doesn't
[34:43] Speaker 1: matter who it is Nick Kroll. These guys are talented
[34:46] Speaker 1: people and they do something that's funny, but it's a
[34:49] Speaker 1: little political, and like or like Bill Burr says something,
[34:53] Speaker 1: now everybody's like, Bill Burr's not funny, f off, he's hysterical.
[34:58] Speaker 1: The guy is one of the all time eight stand
[35:00] Speaker 1: up guys. The cringiest thing political people do, or even
[35:03] Speaker 1: the public does, is when you take a comedian. And
[35:07] Speaker 1: let's face it, one of the funniest things Saturday Night
[35:10] Speaker 1: Live ever did. And I'm no comedy judge, but when
[35:14] Speaker 1: they when they did that bit on the night Trump
[35:17] Speaker 1: won and all these liberals are upstairs. I think Chappelle's
[35:21] Speaker 1: in that, and they're in the apartment upstairs. Did you
[35:25] Speaker 1: ever see that one? I think that's the funniest thing
[35:27] Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Oh, it's all. And what they're doing
[35:30] Speaker 1: is Saturday Night Live pretty introspective looks at themselves and
[35:34] Speaker 1: they're like in a New York apartment and it's during
[35:37] Speaker 1: the election, and I think Chappelle's in it, and they're
[35:40] Speaker 1: making fun of themselves and how New Yorkers talk, like
[35:44] Speaker 1: as Trump is winning state by state and it's like
[35:48] Speaker 1: that moment I had more respect for Saturday Night Live
[35:52] Speaker 1: because they were making fun of themselves. It was a
[35:55] Speaker 1: real moment.
[35:56] Speaker 2: I know, you look up. It was a clear shift
[36:00] Speaker 2: with SNL where it was like hey, And I don't
[36:02] Speaker 2: know if that was because they were just I don't
[36:06] Speaker 2: know that it was aligned with Trump's victory, but it
[36:08] Speaker 2: felt a bit of like, hey, we've been doing kind
[36:10] Speaker 2: of the same material here for a long time, Like
[36:13] Speaker 2: what right for when I see like a breakout clip
[36:16] Speaker 2: of a monologue from a late night host and you're
[36:21] Speaker 2: just like, dude, that was that was a joke from
[36:22] Speaker 2: like nine years ago. You know you're still doing this shit.
[36:25] Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with like political like sensitivities.
[36:31] Speaker 2: You're just like, hey, I'm more offended as a content person,
[36:34] Speaker 2: like you get to recycle the ship constantly. So I
[36:38] Speaker 2: don't know if SNL did it, whether it was self awareness,
[36:42] Speaker 2: whether it was tactical or you know.
[36:45] Speaker 1: It was Chappelle. By the way, it was Chappelle. It's
[36:49] Speaker 1: really and it was really a moment for me. It
[36:51] Speaker 1: was like, oh, they get it, like they get we're
[36:56] Speaker 1: all kind of making fun of what they become. And
[37:01] Speaker 1: so the only thing about politics where I'm really like,
[37:05] Speaker 1: you know, uh is when people start telling me comedians
[37:09] Speaker 1: who I've laughed at for twenty years aren't funny. You know,
[37:12] Speaker 1: Chappelle did a transgender thing, and it's like it may
[37:14] Speaker 1: not be my favorite thing, but don't tell me he's
[37:17] Speaker 1: not funny, you know, don't tell me he's not talented.
[37:20] Speaker 1: That And I always think to myself, are you trying
[37:22] Speaker 1: to convince me that this comedian that I've watched six
[37:24] Speaker 1: Netflix specials isn't talented? Like stop? Like That's how it's
[37:29] Speaker 1: almost like it poisons people. They get so into politics
[37:33] Speaker 1: that they think they're trying to convince people on the
[37:35] Speaker 1: internet stuff we know to be true isn't true. That's
[37:38] Speaker 1: where it's weird.
[37:38] Speaker 2: I just don't have any time for that stuff. I'm
[37:40] Speaker 2: not passionate enough about it. I mean, I certainly have thoughts.
[37:43] Speaker 2: I can think some things are right, I can think
[37:45] Speaker 2: some things are wrong. But in our world, like it
[37:47] Speaker 2: doesn't really do us any good. I think every now
[37:50] Speaker 2: and then, like you'll feel motivated to go, hey, I'm
[37:52] Speaker 2: actually going to use my platform to say this kind
[37:54] Speaker 2: of stuff. I feel like there was a generation behind
[37:56] Speaker 2: us at ESPN, Like I've always you know this kind
[38:00] Speaker 2: it goes back to your radio days. But I think
[38:02] Speaker 2: I've said a version of this before. But every now
[38:04] Speaker 2: and then, like maybe every six months during your prime
[38:09] Speaker 2: back then, you would you would let something fly that
[38:13] Speaker 2: was like a societal observation and maybe there was a
[38:16] Speaker 2: little hint of politics in there, but it just it
[38:19] Speaker 2: still felt safe. But it was a departure from the
[38:22] Speaker 2: I don't know if the Steelers have enough, you know,
[38:24] Speaker 2: like you were like, look, i gotta do three hours.
[38:27] Speaker 2: Let me let me expand a little bit, but it
[38:30] Speaker 2: didn't feel like that's what you really deep down wanted
[38:32] Speaker 2: to do. And it usually was really good and then
[38:36] Speaker 2: it would stand out because it was a departure from
[38:39] Speaker 2: the norm. It was insightful, maybe it got some people
[38:42] Speaker 2: in the car thinking a little differently, and it would
[38:44] Speaker 2: have this moment where it would kind of stand out.
[38:46] Speaker 2: And then I started noticing like more and more. I
[38:49] Speaker 2: was like, I feel like everybody's kind of doing this
[38:51] Speaker 2: like a lot more. And then it was like, I
[38:53] Speaker 2: don't know, I still like to watch games and I'm like,
[38:57] Speaker 2: I'm not why. I'll admit, like I don't know that
[38:59] Speaker 2: I'm super educated on this. I can have a thought,
[39:02] Speaker 2: but they'll be immediately all these people telling me that
[39:05] Speaker 2: I'm wrong, depending on how they're aligned. And so, you know,
[39:08] Speaker 2: back in the day of starting this whole stuff of like, hey,
[39:11] Speaker 2: I want to do NFL Mondays, but i'd really start,
[39:16] Speaker 2: you know, I want to start talking about like you know,
[39:19] Speaker 2: county seats and you know, the change of representation, like
[39:24] Speaker 2: like to start mixing that in a little tuesdays. Maybe
[39:26] Speaker 2: I in compare to the Rangers bullpen, I don't know,
[39:28] Speaker 2: but like I'll figure out a way, but let me
[39:30] Speaker 2: start dancing in those lanes. And I think we had
[39:33] Speaker 2: talked about this where I started to wonder, like are
[39:35] Speaker 2: you doing this to stand out? Are you doing it
[39:37] Speaker 2: because you think it's right. Are you doing it because
[39:39] Speaker 2: it's just fucking way easier than watching a million games
[39:41] Speaker 2: and staying on top of everything. And so it felt
[39:44] Speaker 2: like for a while there the job was kind of
[39:45] Speaker 2: changing and it has nothing to do with like how
[39:48] Speaker 2: I feel about what you do or you don't believe
[39:50] Speaker 2: in When we started, I got in because I loved sports,
[39:55] Speaker 2: and I don't know if the SNL things like a
[39:58] Speaker 2: good parallel to this, but maybe it has kind of
[40:01] Speaker 2: come back around like maybe you know, yeah, it's like smart,
[40:05] Speaker 2: it kind of matters all over again, because if you're
[40:08] Speaker 2: really doing yourself, unless you're just gonna lean in so
[40:11] Speaker 2: far one way or the other, you're like, Okay, I'm
[40:13] Speaker 2: aligned with this group, and this is always going to
[40:14] Speaker 2: be my group, and they're always gonna have my back,
[40:16] Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have daily content to make fun of
[40:17] Speaker 2: the other one. Like the political content people, I'm jealous
[40:20] Speaker 2: of them, Like every day you get something that you
[40:22] Speaker 2: can make fun of that, you'll have so many people
[40:24] Speaker 2: supporting you. No right, but for us, like I want
[40:30] Speaker 2: you know, look, you do this long enough, you're gonna
[40:32] Speaker 2: have plenty of people who don't like you. But I
[40:35] Speaker 2: don't know why I would ever really want to like
[40:39] Speaker 2: have have one career where I'm trying to like show
[40:42] Speaker 2: off of like here's here's all this other stuff that
[40:44] Speaker 2: I could talk about and get you again, because I
[40:46] Speaker 2: don't know that I feel super comfortable about it. But
[40:47] Speaker 2: the boss, the boss would always be like, what the
[40:50] Speaker 2: fuck are you doing? Why are you? Why are you
[40:53] Speaker 2: doing this? Somebody may love your football stuff, they may
[40:55] Speaker 2: love your basketball stuff, but the second you start doing
[40:58] Speaker 2: some of this other stuff, like you're immediately going to
[41:00] Speaker 2: piss off people that are just listeners and viewers, and
[41:03] Speaker 2: we're not actually in business to be losing those people.
[41:07] Speaker 2: So even though I know there was an argument in
[41:09] Speaker 2: the past of like, it doesn't matter about any of that,
[41:11] Speaker 2: Like really, because I've never worked anywhere where they were like, hey,
[41:15] Speaker 2: don't worry about your audience size, just do you.
[41:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's still it doesn't matter what platform. It's all
[41:24] Speaker 1: about that. Hey, everybody, this message brought to you by
[41:28] Speaker 1: Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey at the Colin Coward
[41:31] Speaker 1: Show and The Herd Podcast. Summer is here. So it's
[41:33] Speaker 1: a lot of long days and warm nights and the
[41:35] Speaker 1: perfect time to kick back with a glass. Just that
[41:37] Speaker 1: at two nights ago of Green River Whiskey, you're grilling,
[41:40] Speaker 1: you're out at the lake, just enjoy the sunset with
[41:42] Speaker 1: friends and family. Green River is your go to pour
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[41:49] Speaker 1: goes back over a century. Find Green River near you
[41:52] Speaker 1: at Greenriver Whiskey dot com. That's it, Greenriver Whiskey dot Com.
[41:55] Speaker 1: Here's the Green River Whiskey being sure to raise your
[41:57] Speaker 1: spirits this summer. So I said today on the show,
[42:07] Speaker 1: I said, listen, I'm not going to come in hot
[42:09] Speaker 1: on the draft because it's a projection draft. Yeah, I'm like, yeah,
[42:14] Speaker 1: I mean, I just I said, I think Cooper Flag's
[42:16] Speaker 1: really good. I think he's a more aggressive, better defender
[42:19] Speaker 1: right now at this point than Tatum. I said, I
[42:22] Speaker 1: think he's really good. He's not good as Tatum, he's
[42:24] Speaker 1: really good. The kid from Baylor. He's a disruptor defensively,
[42:28] Speaker 1: looks like he's going on thousand miles an hour. I'm like,
[42:30] Speaker 1: that's an NBA athlete. Is he going to score a lot?
[42:33] Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought the Spurs did pretty well.
[42:37] Speaker 1: Know what I do think, And I've talked about this
[42:40] Speaker 1: a lot, and I want your reaction. I've been on
[42:41] Speaker 1: this now for about two months. There was about a
[42:45] Speaker 1: twenty year period, so you and I grew up with
[42:47] Speaker 1: the Big East, and if you are a great player
[42:50] Speaker 1: in the Big East, Pearl Washington sort of an exception,
[42:53] Speaker 1: or if you're a great team, you were going to
[42:56] Speaker 1: be an NBA player. Ewing was going to be great
[42:59] Speaker 1: in the NBA just the way it was. There was
[43:02] Speaker 1: about a twenty year run in college basketball when the
[43:04] Speaker 1: G League happened. Guys went to Europe, played one year
[43:08] Speaker 1: of college where like Doug McDermott was the college player
[43:11] Speaker 1: of the year, Tyler Hansborough was you go to the
[43:14] Speaker 1: pros and they were rotational guys. And then two years
[43:17] Speaker 1: ago I watched Yukon and I went, oh, shit, there's
[43:21] Speaker 1: seven NBA players. They have NBA length, They are great.
[43:23] Speaker 1: These are great players. And I thought, oh, that team
[43:27] Speaker 1: could play with you and LV and Duke. That is
[43:29] Speaker 1: a real team. And the reason it happened was guys
[43:34] Speaker 1: are staying maybe a year longer with an IL. Now
[43:38] Speaker 1: American universities are poaching European players. I honestly feel like
[43:42] Speaker 1: the last two years when I've watched college, we had
[43:45] Speaker 1: a twenty year period we were trying to pretend the
[43:48] Speaker 1: sport was good. And Jay Billi said this the other day.
[43:52] Speaker 1: NBA guys don't misopen shots, like it's just the seven
[43:55] Speaker 1: foot guy shoots better than the six to two guy
[43:58] Speaker 1: in college. And I do feel like the NIL for
[44:01] Speaker 1: all the bitching about it. Rick Bettino said this here day,
[44:04] Speaker 1: it's kind of made the G League irrelevant. Shit. I
[44:07] Speaker 1: watched the playoffs Indiana, Oklahoma City. You know G League guys,
[44:10] Speaker 1: I mean a men. Thompson's one of the only G
[44:12] Speaker 1: League unite guys. It's like the second two year college guys,
[44:16] Speaker 1: three year college guys. Chet Holmgrun one year probably should
[44:19] Speaker 1: have stayed a second because his offensive games hit and miss.
[44:22] Speaker 1: But I do feel like the last two years I've
[44:25] Speaker 1: watched college and I think this will help the draft
[44:27] Speaker 1: Ryan because it won't all be Euros. It'll even the
[44:31] Speaker 1: Euros are coming and playing now at Texas, They're coming
[44:33] Speaker 1: to play at Connecticut. I feel like college basketball was
[44:36] Speaker 1: kind of unwatchable for twenty years and people kept saying, oh,
[44:40] Speaker 1: it's great. It wasn't it was diluted, it was bad.
[44:44] Speaker 1: In the last two years, I've been glued to March
[44:46] Speaker 1: Madness and it's just more NBA dudes.
[44:48] Speaker 2: College basketball is in a weird spot because, you know,
[44:50] Speaker 2: growing up, I probably would rather watch Big Monday than NBA.
[44:55] Speaker 2: You know, back when it was the Big East, and
[44:57] Speaker 2: then you know it was in the PA Ten teams
[45:01] Speaker 2: that were loaded with NBA players, you know, going back
[45:03] Speaker 2: to those UCLA squads, remember Washington State loving that team
[45:08] Speaker 2: that year. Robbie cal Gill, Well, I guess you want
[45:11] Speaker 2: to talk about the NBA guys, So shout out to Robbie.
[45:13] Speaker 2: But I'm I'm with you because I think I even
[45:18] Speaker 2: remember like you and gottlieb arguing it a bit about
[45:21] Speaker 2: it being like, hey, look, college basketball is largely irrelevant
[45:24] Speaker 2: up until we get to March, and with everything feeling
[45:28] Speaker 2: like it has to be an event, which I think
[45:30] Speaker 2: Silver's doing with the NBA, it's like, hey, we've got
[45:32] Speaker 2: the Ncason Tournament. We've got to plan like we have
[45:34] Speaker 2: more almost like specialty events that we can partner in
[45:38] Speaker 2: different ways, like we're kind of just titling some of
[45:40] Speaker 2: the same stuff. But you know, if this means more revenue,
[45:43] Speaker 2: then that's the game. And even though like I've talked
[45:47] Speaker 2: about baseball with this being like, hey, be really happy
[45:49] Speaker 2: or this incredibly successful local market thing, and that your
[45:52] Speaker 2: playoffs are an incredible product and you just hope that
[45:55] Speaker 2: you have enough storylines to carry over that secondary interest.
[45:59] Speaker 2: The tournament doesn't necessarily need all these crazy storylines because
[46:03] Speaker 2: the event itself is still one of the greatest sporting events.
[46:06] Speaker 3: In the world.
[46:07] Speaker 2: But your right to point out like whether it was ignite,
[46:11] Speaker 2: you know, with Scoop they had Dyson, they had Hardy
[46:14] Speaker 2: Jalen Green cominga and then you had the amen usar
[46:20] Speaker 2: Thompson deal with overtime. I think yeah, it felt it
[46:25] Speaker 2: was starting to feel like, okay, this is like even
[46:28] Speaker 2: more tenuous for a product that was already really struggling
[46:32] Speaker 2: with its regular season in college basketball. So I think
[46:34] Speaker 2: the tournament has always been something everybody's always going to
[46:37] Speaker 2: care about because it's basically like a football version of
[46:40] Speaker 2: gambling in a different sport where it's just so much
[46:42] Speaker 2: fun and you almost feel left out of American society
[46:44] Speaker 2: if you're not in the tournament. I don't know that
[46:46] Speaker 2: they're ever going to recover any of that stuff from
[46:49] Speaker 2: the regular season. But the draft trends of what was
[46:53] Speaker 2: happening with guys circumventing college because of the compensation going
[46:57] Speaker 2: to New Zealand, you know, playing in the Australian League
[46:59] Speaker 2: and they coming here like it hurt the draraft wise
[47:02] Speaker 2: for you to have eight what college guys before s
[47:07] Speaker 2: s and Gay uh well s and Gay went eleventh,
[47:09] Speaker 2: so well no, Colin went well you went eleventh, yeah yeah,
[47:18] Speaker 2: and the other guy went ninth to Toronto and even
[47:24] Speaker 2: Jae or Demon, you know he comes from Russia, but
[47:26] Speaker 2: he's at BYU because of the NIL stuff, whatever it was.
[47:30] Speaker 2: And I don't I don't know all of a sudden
[47:31] Speaker 2: if everybody's gonna be prioritizing regular season college basketball over
[47:35] Speaker 2: the NBA. But there was something that was incredibly fearful,
[47:40] Speaker 2: as these other alternatives that the NIL has helped college
[47:43] Speaker 2: basketball solve in the short term.
[47:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I just I watched the draft last night,
[47:50] Speaker 1: and I watched the yukon a couple of years ago,
[47:51] Speaker 1: and I watched March Madness, and I'm like, oh, cay,
[47:53] Speaker 1: I'm back into the sport. Like and I've always been
[47:56] Speaker 1: sort of loyal to the number. Like I stopped talking
[48:00] Speaker 1: college football for about ten years because it was Alabama
[48:05] Speaker 1: Clemson in Georgia and I felt like nobody Denver West
[48:08] Speaker 1: gives a you know what. And I remember when the
[48:11] Speaker 1: PAC twelve sort of when USC decided we're going in UCLA.
[48:15] Speaker 1: I got a call. I was in Turks and Kkos
[48:17] Speaker 1: with my family and Eric Shanks called me and said,
[48:19] Speaker 1: just want to give you a heads up. This is
[48:20] Speaker 1: going to be announced in about three hours. I was
[48:22] Speaker 1: in an airport and I couldn't tell anybody, but I
[48:24] Speaker 1: started doing some social and having our staff get ready
[48:27] Speaker 1: for it, and I remember thinking, oh, I can talk
[48:29] Speaker 1: college I can talk college football again, you know, like, oh,
[48:34] Speaker 1: USC is going to a conference. And then and then
[48:36] Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk even then about Washington
[48:38] Speaker 1: Oregon getting in. I'm like, Okay, that's a real conference
[48:42] Speaker 1: that they'll be able to compete. They'll get some Midwest kids,
[48:45] Speaker 1: they'll get Big ten money, they'll be more fortified because
[48:48] Speaker 1: the Pac twelve was paying at thirty million a year.
[48:49] Speaker 1: Big Ten's Pania seventy. USC was complaining to me, it's like,
[48:53] Speaker 1: we can't compete with anybody. We have the money. And
[48:57] Speaker 1: so like I feel like, you know, I just follow
[49:03] Speaker 1: what the audience is following. And I would see those
[49:05] Speaker 1: numbers for Alabama couldn't sell out some home games. I
[49:08] Speaker 1: would see some of those numbers, and it was like
[49:10] Speaker 1: people were getting tired of it. I was getting tired
[49:12] Speaker 1: of it. So Alabama, though, I don't know, I'm gonna push.
[49:15] Speaker 2: Back on that. Alabama was an incredibly spoilt fan base,
[49:18] Speaker 2: to the point where SABAN had a beg fans for
[49:20] Speaker 2: day games to come in on some of those lower
[49:23] Speaker 2: level matchups because they just suspected a national championship every time.
[49:26] Speaker 2: I mean, it's the only campus that I'd ever been
[49:28] Speaker 2: to when I used to travel a college game day
[49:29] Speaker 2: because it did the radio part of it along with
[49:31] Speaker 2: TV where it was the only it was the only campus.
[49:35] Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, game days here again, like whatever,
[49:37] Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep in. You know,
[49:39] Speaker 2: every other place it's like a not even a national
[49:42] Speaker 2: holiday because you know it might not ever be coming back.
[49:44] Speaker 2: So as you say that, though, like, let's be honest,
[49:47] Speaker 2: would you have avoided talking college football based on some
[49:50] Speaker 2: numbers if you were still at ESPN because I sensed
[49:54] Speaker 2: an SEC mid ten shift there, buddy when you started,
[49:58] Speaker 2: when you started, U we get somewhere else.
[50:02] Speaker 1: No, well, no I would. I would say this is
[50:06] Speaker 1: that Klatt is a big notice and so yeah, so
[50:12] Speaker 1: I'm I was always I said this for years. SEC
[50:15] Speaker 1: is the best. They went on recruiting day, they went
[50:18] Speaker 1: on draft Day, they went on Saturday. That's the best.
[50:21] Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it, but I did notice
[50:23] Speaker 1: about four years ago and when the NIL started. And
[50:26] Speaker 1: there's a lot of money in those big ten schools.
[50:28] Speaker 1: Those are sixty thousand student body, a lot of those
[50:31] Speaker 1: graduates do very well. I started noticing like four years ago.
[50:35] Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, people are poaching Georgia and Bama and
[50:38] Speaker 1: they don't like I think Nick Saban realized, like before
[50:41] Speaker 1: Texas came in, it's like, oh shit, Texas is bigger
[50:44] Speaker 1: than Alabama. Texas looked better than Alabama. So about four
[50:48] Speaker 1: years ago I started saying, and then it was it
[50:51] Speaker 1: was the hardball team before they won. I'm like, yeah,
[50:55] Speaker 1: I think that's they're as good as Georgia. Like I'm
[50:57] Speaker 1: watching the Saturday and I'm like, they got like ten
[51:00] Speaker 1: NFL guys, you know, all over the field. Georgia maybe
[51:03] Speaker 1: has twelve. So I do think about four years ago,
[51:06] Speaker 1: I just watched the games and it's like, you know,
[51:09] Speaker 1: when I first started watching Caitlyn Clark, I was just like, well, shit,
[51:12] Speaker 1: she's shooting from thirty three feet. That doesn't even make it.
[51:15] Speaker 1: I mean, the line's twenty two. So I tend to
[51:18] Speaker 1: trust my eyes. And when the Big Ten, when Harbaugh's
[51:21] Speaker 1: team the year before they won, I was like, oh
[51:23] Speaker 1: they caught up. At least the top of the Big
[51:26] Speaker 1: ten's as good as the top as the SEC.
[51:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard this. I actually think people are like
[51:31] Speaker 2: more unfair and how they critique the SEC than it
[51:35] Speaker 2: is about being pro SEC because I just see a
[51:37] Speaker 2: lot of media members that all have big ten backgrounds
[51:40] Speaker 2: that have been like incredibly celebratory about what's happened in
[51:44] Speaker 2: the last couple of years. Now I've heard the nil theory.
[51:46] Speaker 2: I think Saban would have figured it out if he
[51:48] Speaker 2: was motivated to figure it out. But he may have
[51:50] Speaker 2: been right. He's been there since two thousand and nine
[51:55] Speaker 2: or no, two thousand and seven, excuse me, two thousand
[51:56] Speaker 2: and seven, that first year where they lost to Louisiana Monroe.
[52:00] Speaker 2: So now I'm trying to remember if I have that
[52:03] Speaker 2: year right. I feel like I feel like I'm messing
[52:06] Speaker 2: up the year because I would have been on college
[52:08] Speaker 2: game day for Tumberville Iron Bowl they got smoked. I
[52:10] Speaker 2: think that would have been two thousand and eight. So anyway,
[52:14] Speaker 2: I gotta look that up. I need I need more results,
[52:18] Speaker 2: I need more parody, I need more balance because you know,
[52:22] Speaker 2: the people that didn't like the SEC still didn't like
[52:24] Speaker 2: the SEC when they had seven different national or excuse me,
[52:27] Speaker 2: seven national championships in a row. You could run through
[52:30] Speaker 2: four or five programs you're like, Okay, they could win
[52:32] Speaker 2: a national championship. They're playing for a national championship. It
[52:36] Speaker 2: didn't feel like the other conferences could be that deep.
[52:38] Speaker 2: Certainly the Big Ten is in the conversation now, especially
[52:40] Speaker 2: when you add a team like Oregon. You could say, hey,
[52:42] Speaker 2: you're also adding Washington, who plays in a national championship
[52:44] Speaker 2: two years ago, so that puts them on the probable list,
[52:47] Speaker 2: even if that is probably more of an aberration for
[52:49] Speaker 2: that program and just having an incredible year where everything
[52:52] Speaker 2: kind of came together. So you might be entirely right
[52:56] Speaker 2: about the balance of it flattening out the top here
[53:00] Speaker 2: a little bit. But I guess for the people that
[53:03] Speaker 2: I know hated the SEC so much, they were still
[53:06] Speaker 2: arguing against the conference when they were winning all these titles.
[53:09] Speaker 2: And so now if the standard is that, yeah, I
[53:11] Speaker 2: wasn't one standards that the Big was won back to
[53:14] Speaker 2: back with two different teams the first time in eighty years,
[53:17] Speaker 2: then the thing that you said didn't even matter when
[53:21] Speaker 2: they were winning is now the thing that matters the most,
[53:24] Speaker 2: because you could also you could also just say, hey,
[53:27] Speaker 2: the SEC had an awful quarterback year, So maybe there
[53:30] Speaker 2: is this shift a shift that's long overdue. You know,
[53:33] Speaker 2: sports are cyclical. Maybe the Big Ten's about to have
[53:35] Speaker 2: this incredible run. But it's very hard for me to
[53:39] Speaker 2: say that because of the National Championship results. And look,
[53:43] Speaker 2: Tennessee looked just fucking frigid against Ohio State, that looked
[53:48] Speaker 2: like a football team that was not interested in competing,
[53:51] Speaker 2: and they get trucked in that game. I just have
[53:57] Speaker 2: a hard time on like the people that do this
[53:58] Speaker 2: for a living, that are on the evaluated side, They're like,
[54:01] Speaker 2: that's still the best conference, Like are you, like, what's
[54:03] Speaker 2: what's going on?
[54:04] Speaker 1: I think the sixth best team I think I think
[54:08] Speaker 1: I will say this year, I think about the sixth
[54:11] Speaker 1: best team in the Big Ten will be Washington and
[54:14] Speaker 1: I think the sixth best team in the SEC could
[54:17] Speaker 1: be Oklahoma. And so that to me is where about
[54:21] Speaker 1: I think about where we're at. I think I think
[54:23] Speaker 1: they're both and if they played, it's a go either
[54:25] Speaker 1: way game. Whoever is at home wins because I think
[54:28] Speaker 1: Penn State's gonna win it. I have I picked. I
[54:33] Speaker 1: remember when Ohio State lost to Michigan, I said, my
[54:35] Speaker 1: favorite part about college football is Ohio State's going to
[54:38] Speaker 1: lose as a twenty point favorite in their last big game,
[54:40] Speaker 1: and they're going to get into the tournament. And by
[54:43] Speaker 1: the way, Kansas City the year they won the Super
[54:45] Speaker 1: Bowl two years ago got beat by Oakland in like
[54:47] Speaker 1: weeks sixteen or Las Vegas, and I'm like, yeah, they
[54:51] Speaker 1: should be in the playoffs. I don't care, just like
[54:53] Speaker 1: putting the best teams in. I got Penn State win again.
[54:56] Speaker 1: Singleton's amazing, Drew Aller's getting better. I think they're the
[54:59] Speaker 1: best backfield by mile in college sports.
[55:01] Speaker 2: Just to clean it up, it was two thousand and
[55:03] Speaker 2: eight Iron Bowl, Tubberville did get smoked and that was
[55:06] Speaker 2: his last season, So that's I remember just being down
[55:09] Speaker 2: there for that. But Saban had already been there obviously
[55:12] Speaker 2: the previous year when he had the bad record and
[55:14] Speaker 2: people were like, is this guy really going to be
[55:16] Speaker 2: that good?
[55:16] Speaker 1: He's really good on TV.
[55:17] Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, I think he you know, I
[55:22] Speaker 2: think he wants to He takes it really seriously. Yes, yeah,
[55:27] Speaker 2: like he's he's you know, I know a couple of
[55:29] Speaker 2: guys that are really close with him, that are with
[55:31] Speaker 2: them all the time when they're on the road, and
[55:34] Speaker 2: he is like adamant about making sure the stuff that
[55:40] Speaker 2: he's talking about, like he's he's not just out there
[55:43] Speaker 2: like he cares. He actually cares, like what are we
[55:46] Speaker 2: doing similarly doing it? Which actually makes the most sense ever,
[55:49] Speaker 2: if you know anything about the guy where I remember
[55:52] Speaker 2: this story because I've been down there a bunch of
[55:54] Speaker 2: different times and I really loved I just have so
[55:56] Speaker 2: much respect for Saban. I've loved interviewing him. I always
[55:59] Speaker 2: hate it any Belichick comp because I was like, Belichick
[56:02] Speaker 2: is not interesting, Like he goes out of his way
[56:04] Speaker 2: to not be interesting, and that's like the game he's playing,
[56:07] Speaker 2: and Saban is really thoughtful, and for whatever reason, people
[56:10] Speaker 2: try to like lump them in because they were both
[56:12] Speaker 2: successful and have kind of this timpon they're not the
[56:14] Speaker 2: same guy, And like, I think the world of Saban,
[56:19] Speaker 2: and it seems like whatever he's going to do, he
[56:23] Speaker 2: wants to make sure like, Okay, what's what's the best
[56:25] Speaker 2: possible way for us to go ahead and do it,
[56:27] Speaker 2: which is exactly the way he runs a football program.
[56:30] Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's when I Urban Meyer is a friend
[56:32] Speaker 1: of mine and like Urban watches film, Did I ever
[56:35] Speaker 1: tell you my Urban? And that's when Urban comes on
[56:37] Speaker 1: the show mine like he I will talk to him
[56:40] Speaker 1: before the break. I'm like, have you wat he will
[56:42] Speaker 1: have watched film. I never forget years ago when LSU
[56:46] Speaker 1: played Ohio State. Jim Trussell was the coach, and I
[56:50] Speaker 1: saw urban I can I can tell this story now.
[56:52] Speaker 1: I saw urban in. I think he was at Florida
[56:55] Speaker 1: or was leaving or I forget what it was, but
[56:58] Speaker 1: I think he was at Florida at the time, again.
[57:01] Speaker 2: Because they had just won was he the national championship
[57:04] Speaker 2: the year before?
[57:07] Speaker 1: Yep, and they were LSU was playing Ohio State and
[57:10] Speaker 1: I caught him in the hallway. He went on for
[57:13] Speaker 1: about eight minutes. He literally described the game. He said,
[57:16] Speaker 1: Ohio State will move the ball early. Mo Clorette had
[57:20] Speaker 1: a big run early, I think for a touchdown. He said. Ultimately,
[57:23] Speaker 1: LSU's got about twice as many good receivers, twice as
[57:26] Speaker 1: many good running backs. They'll wear them down, they'll pull
[57:29] Speaker 1: away in the second half, and they'll win by like fourteen.
[57:31] Speaker 1: And he went like for eight to ten minutes. He literally,
[57:35] Speaker 1: I mean he'd watched film for both teams. He literally
[57:39] Speaker 1: he recited the game. So I took that and went
[57:42] Speaker 1: on the game and talked about the game basically using
[57:44] Speaker 1: all of his stuff and say, hey, listen, I just
[57:46] Speaker 1: talked to somebody I trust, blah blah blah. It made
[57:48] Speaker 1: me sound so smart. But he I liked these ex
[57:51] Speaker 1: coaches because a lot of times, I mean, Saba will
[57:53] Speaker 1: watch film before that Saturday show. Urban will go and
[57:57] Speaker 1: watch film and break it down like a coach, and
[57:59] Speaker 1: it's and they're so freed, right, there's no pressure. They're
[58:03] Speaker 1: watching film now without an agenda not to protect anything.
[58:09] Speaker 1: And I think both those guys provide something that film
[58:13] Speaker 1: knowledge that's really valuable to me as a consumer.
[58:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, so LSU wanted, you know seven when they had
[58:19] Speaker 2: the second loss. Remember that was the year in two
[58:21] Speaker 2: thousand and seven where UCF Boston College or ranked number
[58:24] Speaker 2: two West Virginia if they'd beaten Pitt. It's still one
[58:27] Speaker 2: of my favorite college football years ever, because whenever you
[58:29] Speaker 2: go through any like the research backets for an upcoming weekend,
[58:32] Speaker 2: it'll be like, this is the last time. The last
[58:34] Speaker 2: time this happened was in two thousand and seven, because
[58:36] Speaker 2: like two thousand and seven was a free fra aull
[58:37] Speaker 2: And even though LSU had that second loss, they're like, look,
[58:40] Speaker 2: we're just going to vote this team back in. I
[58:41] Speaker 2: remember Trussell after the fact saying that was a game.
[58:45] Speaker 2: When we were preparing for it, we knew we had
[58:46] Speaker 2: no chance. And then they lose to Ohio State. Excuse me,
[58:51] Speaker 2: Ohasate loses the floor to the next year. And that
[58:55] Speaker 2: was the thing, Like, this is the Big ten argument.
[58:57] Speaker 2: This is the pro Big ten argument that for years
[59:01] Speaker 2: we were conditioned, like remember the Alabama Michigan State games
[59:04] Speaker 2: where you were just go jesus.
[59:06] Speaker 1: Oh, thirty four nothing or thirty five seven.
[59:08] Speaker 2: Isn't happening as much anymore, Okay, And that's not just
[59:12] Speaker 2: about the Michigan and Ohio State national championships, and I
[59:15] Speaker 2: think they're kind of like further, the point is that
[59:19] Speaker 2: we may be on the cusp of this thing that
[59:23] Speaker 2: like is real. It's just so hard for me to
[59:25] Speaker 2: think that, like there's going to be another region.
[59:27] Speaker 1: You know why though, So here's my take on this.
[59:31] Speaker 1: Alabama's doing car washes and bake sales, and Ohio State's
[59:36] Speaker 1: not big ten schools. Most SEC schools are smaller schools.
[59:40] Speaker 1: I think Auburn's like is it sixteen eighteen thousand? Wisconstant?
[59:45] Speaker 1: Ohio State missions.
[59:46] Speaker 2: Are like small cities, man, I mean it's nuts.
[59:49] Speaker 1: And they all those graduates go all across the America
[59:53] Speaker 1: and they go to New York in LA and they
[59:54] Speaker 1: make a bunch of money and they give it back.
[59:57] Speaker 1: It's much easier for these big ten schools. I mean,
[1:00:02] Speaker 1: USC is now spending twenty million dollars innil. They're twenty
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: twenty six class. They just went and bought this insane class.
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: And that's just because of NIL. That's not because they
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: suddenly figured out how to recruit. They've got money. And
[1:00:15] Speaker 1: so now the big ten's got Seattle, Los Angeles, Columbus.
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: You know these are massive. I mean, Penn State's got
[1:00:23] Speaker 1: Philadelphia and New York graduates everywhere. SCC is a lot
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: of small towns, and I just don't think the NIL money.
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't think they have the NIL money.
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: In most instance, I think Georgia does, but I don't
[1:00:38] Speaker 1: think a lot of teams do. George is also closest
[1:00:41] Speaker 1: to the biggest city in the South, Atlanta. Well there's
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: more money, more attorneys, more doctors, more you know, venture
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: capitalists in Atlanta in the South, and they're Georgia.
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: I do think sometimes too, You'll have you know, it's
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: a very human nature thing, but you become motivated by
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: something that you don't think you can get as opposed
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: to expecting it, right. I mean, it's the King of
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: the Mountain analogy here, where you know, as Georgia is
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: motivated to spend when they put together these these runs,
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: like what if Alabama's not in the playoff for ten years?
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: What do you think, like what do you think that
[1:01:16] Speaker 2: nil is going to be like? Or whatever? You know,
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: like Ohio State after losing to Michigan before the season,
[1:01:23] Speaker 2: and it's still This is one of the things I
[1:01:25] Speaker 2: think with college football that even though people love the expansion,
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: I don't. It's more of a reflection of how much
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: I hate the realignment. I've already done these rants far
[1:01:31] Speaker 2: too many times. But I'm watching your network and it's
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: Ohio State Michigan and the broadcast is like this is
[1:01:37] Speaker 2: for everything, and It's like, yeah, except it isn't because
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: Ohio State's going to lose this and then win a
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: national championship. And I will forever miss that that is
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: not on the line. But yes, it doesn't ruin my
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: enjoyment of this incredible rivalry and what was like an ugly, awesome,
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: just a brutal game, and you know, the emotions that
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: game are just like they're on the TV screen. It's
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: it's a fucking awesome product. But when I think about
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: you know how State this past offseason and grabbing Caleb
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: Downs as soon as savings out of there, going to
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: get Will Howard, which you know at the time, remember
[1:02:14] Speaker 2: like the summer, it was a bit of an argument
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: like hey, well if he was that special, like why
[1:02:17] Speaker 2: is this guy leaving k State and all these things,
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: and it just works and we knew that it was
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: supposedly this twenty million dollar program. Is this about Ohio
[1:02:24] Speaker 2: States should always be able to fund all this stuff?
[1:02:26] Speaker 2: If you name the top blue blood programs, the places
[1:02:28] Speaker 2: where it matters the most. I don't know that this
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: is ever going to be an issue, but there is
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: something about that void. There is something about feeling like
[1:02:35] Speaker 2: this is bullshit that motivates you in a way that's
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: that's just hard to replicate when you're used to all
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: the success. So I think that's what will probably happen
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: amongst the top schools. It's just a matter of like
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: how many of these top programs do you think we'll
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: have access to maybe a spending spree. And look, apparently
[1:02:54] Speaker 2: now we have a cap at twenty million for an
[1:02:57] Speaker 2: entire academic department. Yeah, good luck figuring that one out.
[1:03:00] Speaker 2: Good luck being the tennis coach. You know, like, hey,
[1:03:04] Speaker 2: she really like this kid from Choke. You're like, yeah,
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: well we our guy needs a six defensive back. So
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
[1:03:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, that thing a bit of a circus. Yeah, well
[1:03:17] Speaker 1: I told you it was only gonna take thirty minutes,
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: but that's not We can't talk for thirty This fucking
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: thing's already gone an hour.
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: Sorry. I didn't mean to do that.
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: I really didn't.
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: I want to.
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: I know you're busy. I know you got to do
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: like sixteen local hits in spoken it's available.
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, are the Sonics coming back? So well no, man,
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: I just love love talking to you, know how I
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: feel about you. So whatever you need, same here, all right, buddy,
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: appreciate it

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